Speaker 1: Of the law and order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies. These episodes are based on. These are our stories.
Speaker 3: Dune Dune.
Speaker 2: Hello, welcome to That's Messed Up, an SVU podcast. I'm
Speaker 2: Lisa and I'm Kara, and you guys know what we
Speaker 2: do here. We talk about an episode of SVU, we
Speaker 2: talk about the true crime it was based on, and
Speaker 2: we interview an actor from the episode, and we chitchat
Speaker 2: with each other. But one of the first things we
Speaker 2: want to talk about is to tell you guys that
Speaker 2: in June we're going to be back out on the road.
Speaker 3: Babies.
Speaker 1: We're doing some random, little smattering of shows in June.
Speaker 1: We're going to be at Cobbs in San Francisco on
Speaker 1: June eighth, that's a Thursday. We're going to be in Tempe, Arizona,
Speaker 1: back at the Tempe Improv on June's fifteenth. Sorry, that's
Speaker 1: June fifteenth, one five, and that's another Thursday. And then
Speaker 1: we'll be back at Denver Comedy Works one of our
Speaker 1: first live shows. Excited to be back on June twenty fifth,
Speaker 1: So that's a Sunday night, and guys, please come see us.
Speaker 1: Get tickets, text us, message us on when you get
Speaker 1: tickets because I love to hear that people are coming.
Speaker 1: And yeah, we're so excited to see you.
Speaker 3: Guys.
Speaker 1: All back at the Sasha Kolby Meet and Greet. I
Speaker 1: mean we do meet people after our shows. We play
Speaker 1: fun games, like we will tell you in advance what
Speaker 1: episode we're doing so you can watch along. It's kind
Speaker 1: of like the podcast, but with all this extra fun stuff,
Speaker 1: and we do PowerPoint and yeah, just in case you
Speaker 1: haven't come to see us before, or if you have
Speaker 1: come to see us before, we have different merch come
Speaker 1: see us and Lisa anything to add.
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm going to be doing stand up in Denver too.
Speaker 2: Are some of those dates, so check around the calendar.
Speaker 2: I really can't. I can't keep it together. The world's
Speaker 2: asking too much of us I have. The Internet's too much.
Speaker 2: It's just too much. Yeah, yeah, all these videos, all
Speaker 2: this here, look at me there, buy a ticket there, Like,
Speaker 2: how did we used to do it before?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 2: People, someone wrote what more information from Denver?
Speaker 3: Fucking google it? I don't know google it.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: When I used to try to find concerts. I wasn't.
Speaker 2: I didn't have direct communication with the Backstreet Boys.
Speaker 3: I'm not comparing us.
Speaker 1: But if you want tickets for any of our live shows,
Speaker 1: I can message Kara, you can message me directly. But
Speaker 1: they're also at that's messed Up live dot Com. That's
Speaker 1: where all of our stuff is. They're at the link
Speaker 1: in our bio on Instagram or that's messed Up Live
Speaker 1: dot Com has ticket links to all these individual shows.
Speaker 1: And check all the calendars, like for Lisa's stand up too,
Speaker 1: because she's will be at Denver Comedy Works around the
Speaker 1: same time that we're there as well, and that will
Speaker 1: be fun. What else? Oh, so we can talk about
Speaker 1: Drag Race. If you haven't watched season fifteen of Drag Race,
Speaker 1: I don't know fast forward we're gonna talk about who won,
Speaker 1: but it made sense.
Speaker 2: I think we're all happy as a community, and that's everyone.
Speaker 3: I think all the queens are happy. We're all happy.
Speaker 1: I'm actually was I was team and Eitra, but I'm
Speaker 1: so happy for Sasha and I knew it would be Sasha,
Speaker 1: and I'm actually excited because that means we probably get
Speaker 1: to see an Etra on an All Stars and she's
Speaker 1: really fantastic, and I think, with like even more confidence
Speaker 1: from winning, she's gonna be like amazing on an All Stars.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Sasha has that extra star sexy twinkle in her
Speaker 2: eye that just you can't fake. You can't fake experience,
Speaker 2: you can't fake that stuff, you know what I mean,
Speaker 2: there's just what is that French word said, She's got it,
Speaker 2: She's got something that none of you have. So sorry,
Speaker 2: Like the way she just works the camera and looks
Speaker 2: into my soul is something.
Speaker 1: Like the queens are like I'm in love with Like
Speaker 1: I think guy have a crush on her, like they
Speaker 1: like everyone's obsessed like with in her competition.
Speaker 2: Her performance, there's just a level of artistry that is
Speaker 2: a foot above the rest.
Speaker 1: I don't think I can remember like a time where
Speaker 1: somebody just sailed through the competition with like no lip syncs,
Speaker 1: never being in the bottom pretty flawless all runways, all performances.
Speaker 1: Like I can't remember somebody who just like, well, no
Speaker 1: one even talks shit, No one ever talks shit. That's
Speaker 1: the thing too, because I can think of other people
Speaker 1: that were really good but you like, or avoided the
Speaker 1: bottom two even but there's drama, they're not that good
Speaker 1: at makeup because I was thinking Bob, but then he
Speaker 1: was in the bottom two that like, you know, against
Speaker 1: Derek Berry for the Sylvester song. Yeah, but you know
Speaker 1: it's a professional never mad at a part, could do calm,
Speaker 1: you know, just like nice to everyone. No competitive nature,
Speaker 1: well competitive obviously miscontinental, but like competing against yourself more yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: just no shade really in a negative way, but funny
Speaker 1: and confident but not arrogant. I mean, truly a professional,
Speaker 1: shining star that I was happy to be on my
Speaker 1: TV week after week. Yea thrilled and I loved everyone else,
Speaker 1: but like Mistress and Lux looking so upset at the finale,
Speaker 1: It's like that's the true drag delusion.
Speaker 3: Are you out of your minds?
Speaker 2: You thought you were being you were gonna be in
Speaker 2: the top two, take your top four, bow, smile and
Speaker 2: call it a day. Yeah. The look of sadness on
Speaker 2: their faces, I was like, wait, you didn't You didn't.
Speaker 3: Really didn't think you didn't think? Why not? What?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 1: I mean it's like I don't know, I yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't know what it's like to have that kind of
Speaker 1: confidence where you just like are delusional, but a lot
Speaker 1: of these queens do. But when we're talking about no
Speaker 1: Shade and something we enjoyed watching our television on our
Speaker 1: television screens, I'd like to segue into something that I
Speaker 1: truly disliked watching on my television. I flew on Delta
Speaker 1: recently and I decided to watch this movie because it
Speaker 1: had an all star cast. It looked it had the
Speaker 1: sheen of Nancy Myers. It was not a Nancy Myers movie,
Speaker 1: but it had a Nancy Meyer sheen on it. With
Speaker 1: the poster, it was Diane Keaton, Nancy Meyers, muse, it's
Speaker 1: Richard Gear, it's William H. Macy, and it's Shannon uh
Speaker 1: Susan Sarandon as well as Emma Roberts. And it's called
Speaker 1: Maybe I Do. And I watched this movie and I
Speaker 1: was like, I watched it on American I took an
Speaker 1: American flight, honestly, and I had to watch it on
Speaker 1: my cell phone. And I was like, whatever, I'll watch this,
Speaker 1: And I kept going, is this terrible? Like nobody talks
Speaker 1: like this. It's one of the worst movies I've ever seen.
Speaker 1: I guess it was adapted from a play and it
Speaker 1: doesn't seem like they did any adapting. I felt like
Speaker 1: I was watching a play in that weird way where
Speaker 1: in a play you can kind of accept people talking
Speaker 1: in monologues for a long time in a way that
Speaker 1: you don't in movies because it's like not real life, and.
Speaker 2: Because it was so bad that you can't even sleep
Speaker 2: to it, Like that's how bad it was. It was
Speaker 2: so jarringly upsetting that you couldn't even be lulled.
Speaker 3: It wasn't a lullaby bad.
Speaker 2: It was like uncomfortable, horrible, like what does someone have
Speaker 2: on these actors?
Speaker 3: Whose cousin is this? What is this?
Speaker 2: Did you finish it? I don't say. I think I
Speaker 2: had to turn it off. But Michael Kostrof, that's what
Speaker 2: that was exciting.
Speaker 3: I took a photo.
Speaker 1: We did see Michael Kostrof in a funn Former game.
Speaker 1: He stole his little scene that he had. He was
Speaker 1: like a motel owner when people are trying to check
Speaker 1: into like a CD hourly motel. But I ended up
Speaker 1: on Delta on my way home and was like, you
Speaker 1: know what, I didn't get to finish it. I only
Speaker 1: got to the part where they talked about this big
Speaker 1: dinner that's like the centerpiece of the movie. I was like,
Speaker 1: I'll just keep watching and see what happens at the dinner.
Speaker 1: And I literally turned it off and I never turned
Speaker 1: movies off almost ever.
Speaker 3: Like this writer is cool.
Speaker 2: This writer director created the show the Dinosaurs.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, not the baby, not the Mama.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he created and wrote Boy Meets World.
Speaker 1: Well, I think the problem is he needs to stay
Speaker 1: with kidshit because when he tried to do something that
Speaker 1: was adult, it was like painful. It's people talking about
Speaker 1: love NonStop with nothing concrete, just bullshit word salad talking
Speaker 1: about love, And I was like, what's even going on here?
Speaker 1: Like basically the main couple in the movie is like
Speaker 1: the girls like marry me or we're breaking up, which
Speaker 1: is like one of the dumbest ultimatums. I hate it
Speaker 1: so much, but like, if that's what your girlfriend wants
Speaker 1: and that's not what you want, I guess you do
Speaker 1: have to break up, but let's talk about why you
Speaker 1: don't want it. Like he just keeps being like we're us,
Speaker 1: Like what's wrong with us just being us?
Speaker 3: And like it's no chemist, fucking zero chemistry.
Speaker 1: They kept acting like I don't know and then she
Speaker 1: just like Emma Roberts is a great actress. I feel
Speaker 1: like I love her in Coven, I like her and
Speaker 1: other stuff she's done, And in this she's just like, Mom,
Speaker 1: you told me I would never be a ballerina. It's like,
Speaker 1: are you thirty? Why the fuck do you care that
Speaker 1: you're not a ballerina anymore? Like her childhood bedroom still
Speaker 1: has ballerina posters in it, Like it's the Oh my god,
Speaker 1: I could go on about this movie for fucking ever.
Speaker 1: It was so like it's it's so like not to
Speaker 1: mention the plot is like pretty preposterous, like in general,
Speaker 1: but then just all of like in this movie that
Speaker 1: I love called Playing by Heart with Angelina Jolie and
Speaker 1: Ryan Philippy and all these famous people. It's one of
Speaker 1: those ensemble movies where they're all woven together. At the end,
Speaker 1: she says to his character. Her character says to his character,
Speaker 1: talking about love is like dancing about architecture.
Speaker 3: Like I just don't want.
Speaker 1: To see a movie where people are just talking about
Speaker 1: love for hours on end. It's too boring and it
Speaker 1: doesn't make any sense or resonate with anyone if you're
Speaker 1: not talking about actual experiences or anything specific. Maybe what
Speaker 1: love is blind is honestly, but it is interesting because
Speaker 1: they're all delusional, and so maybe that's what makes it great,
Speaker 1: because the whole point about love is Blind is they're
Speaker 1: trying to convince themselves and the audience that the love
Speaker 1: that they have created within a week to two weeks
Speaker 1: not seeing each other in these pods is more real
Speaker 1: than anything that anyone has ever experienced on the planet.
Speaker 1: And so that is why them discussing it is so fantastic,
Speaker 1: because they're trying to diminish everyone else's love and why
Speaker 1: theirs is better. My favorite is it's one of the
Speaker 1: girl's wedding days and she's sitting with you know, friends
Speaker 1: and family in her bridal sweep and she goes, it's
Speaker 1: just so pure because I didn't have any friends or family,
Speaker 1: like none of your influence.
Speaker 3: It was purely what I believed.
Speaker 2: And it's like, what a rude thing to say to
Speaker 2: the people who love you.
Speaker 1: If I had let you guys meet him in advance,
Speaker 1: you probably would have ruined it.
Speaker 3: Like that's essentially like it's.
Speaker 2: Just such a weird thing to say, and it's saying that,
Speaker 2: like all of your love isn't as pure because you
Speaker 2: have outside influence.
Speaker 3: It's just like it is.
Speaker 1: That's such a classic talking yourself into it thing though.
Speaker 1: That's a classic talking yourself into it thing, And then
Speaker 1: when it doesn't work out, who's to blame? Only you?
Speaker 1: Like you can't look around and say, like, why did't
Speaker 1: any of you guys give me the red flags? Like
Speaker 1: you know, you're solely responsible for the failure if this
Speaker 1: doesn't work out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but just in general, when you're trying to yeah,
Speaker 2: you're right, it's a classic thing of like why yours
Speaker 2: is more real? Is like, yeah, so silly to me.
Speaker 2: I did like in the Love is Blind reunion, I
Speaker 2: know you're not watching. What I did like was some
Speaker 2: of the people were like even they were like, you
Speaker 2: have to forgive us because it's a really crazy experience,
Speaker 2: and you like people that were wronged were really advocating
Speaker 2: forgiveness to the psychopaths because they're like, listen, it's a
Speaker 2: really fucked up thing we're going through, and please be
Speaker 2: nicer to us. Like they were all really kind kind
Speaker 2: of to each other in terms of like, yeah, we
Speaker 2: all did weird things. It's a weird experience we went through,
Speaker 2: so I kind of liked that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, anyway, don't be fooled by the fucking right
Speaker 1: that I got, and yeah, don't be fooled by the
Speaker 1: rocks that Diane Keaton's got, or like that, by the
Speaker 1: the you know, cream colored interior design that makes you
Speaker 1: think it's a Nancy Myers movie, because maybe I do.
Speaker 1: As one of the worst movies I've fucking ever seen
Speaker 1: in my life. It was really really bad, because sometimes
Speaker 1: on a you want a bad movie. You want something
Speaker 1: that's just like, yeah, simple, easy, predictable, fine.
Speaker 2: That you can be in and out of. You can
Speaker 2: feel like that is perfect.
Speaker 1: Well, speaking of I finally watched M three Gin on
Speaker 1: the plane on another flight, and I loved it.
Speaker 3: I thought it was so fun. It's so fun.
Speaker 1: It's my perfect horror movie too, because there's barely any
Speaker 1: like there's scariness and there's like murder, but there's not gore.
Speaker 1: You know, there's like one sighting of blood really like
Speaker 1: it's just not that bloody. Well, no, the couple, there's
Speaker 1: a couple gory things, but like it's not that bad.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm just not anti gore, but it is really
Speaker 2: sounds like al Gore.
Speaker 3: Wait, I went to a Dodgers game yesterday.
Speaker 1: I heard how did you hear from the wife of
Speaker 1: the person you went with?
Speaker 3: Oh, that's so funny. It was only decided like so
Speaker 3: less minute. That's so funny, but it was. I really
Speaker 3: love LA Baseball fans.
Speaker 2: I loved fans, yeah, outside of the stadium and everything,
Speaker 2: but like these are great fans, great people, great vibe,
Speaker 2: great vendors, Like even the cops.
Speaker 3: Are kind of chill.
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, I probably not for everyone, so so you know,
Speaker 2: but even yes, Like I just really love the vibe
Speaker 2: of and I've not maybe other sports are great here too,
Speaker 2: but I love LA Baseball. I have a great time,
Speaker 2: and I actually my kids aren't ready, but I do
Speaker 2: want to go, Like really, I want to go without them,
Speaker 2: but then I want to take them eventually when they're
Speaker 2: old enough.
Speaker 3: But I think it's really fun.
Speaker 1: I agree, and like I'm not a huge sports person,
Speaker 1: but I love how everybody feels like they're having fun,
Speaker 1: like they're not like screaming at the players, like they
Speaker 1: could fucking do better.
Speaker 3: Like I don't know, I just like I really families.
Speaker 2: It was Hello Kitty night, which I wish I knew
Speaker 2: I would have gotten their own. God, I would have
Speaker 2: wanted the giveaway, but I didn't know.
Speaker 3: I didn't know.
Speaker 2: But there was a lot of Hello Kitty kids, and
Speaker 2: they keep U entertained, Like they play the Lion King music,
Speaker 2: the Simba reveal, and then people hold their babies up
Speaker 2: for the JumboTron.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, that's cute, really cute, that's really cute.
Speaker 1: I'm I took Rosie to the Lion King. Have we
Speaker 1: talked about it?
Speaker 3: No, not yet, not yet.
Speaker 2: But I also wanted to say, also when the gameplay,
Speaker 2: I don't know how I feel about the pitching clock
Speaker 2: and the time, the new rules, I don't know how
Speaker 2: I feel.
Speaker 3: I don't know what any of that means.
Speaker 1: I just heard that it makes it the makes the
Speaker 1: baseball games shorter, and so they have less time to
Speaker 1: sell beer. So now they're selling beer longer at shows,
Speaker 1: I mean at shows, at games, I.
Speaker 2: Sports psych, I mean, they they're doing their own thing.
Speaker 2: Everyone will get used to it. I think it's an
Speaker 2: American but I will deal with it. But there it
Speaker 2: does create more drama. For sure. There was like there
Speaker 2: was honestly, it was like two amazing teams playing that
Speaker 2: I don't give a shit about so to me, I
Speaker 2: was like relaxed, excited, just into the gameplay, watching families
Speaker 2: enjoying their lives.
Speaker 3: No one's rushing. I don't know, like I just am
Speaker 3: like I it.
Speaker 2: Was just like a glorious, glorious, relaxing evening. I love
Speaker 2: that and it was a nice night and I would
Speaker 2: go at any time.
Speaker 3: No, but I don't know. I don't know. If you're yeah,
Speaker 3: we will go without the kids. No, no, no, no,
Speaker 3: no no.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying I feel like it's a fun thing
Speaker 1: to bring your family to, but like my kids are
Speaker 1: years away from it. I mean, oh my god, Oscar
Speaker 1: won't stop waking up at five in the morning.
Speaker 3: It's killing me. But I did take Rosie. Oh yeah,
Speaker 3: the bed. The bed is now open and he is well.
Speaker 1: No, I didn't move him to the bed, Okay, So
Speaker 1: if anyone doesn't know what's going on, I am transitioning
Speaker 1: my children into bunk beds. Rosie last night slept in
Speaker 1: the bunk bed for the first time, top bunk like
Speaker 1: a champ.
Speaker 3: No problem.
Speaker 1: Oscar for the last four days has been waking up
Speaker 1: at five am, so I think he's going through what's
Speaker 1: called a two year old sleep regression. If you are
Speaker 1: a sleep person and you know how I can get
Speaker 1: him to stop this shit, please DM me your advice.
Speaker 1: I cannot let him cry it out because he shares
Speaker 1: a room with Rosie and he will wake her up,
Speaker 1: so it's a problem. So I do have to go
Speaker 1: in there and get him as soon as he starts stirring.
Speaker 1: And that's the problem. So we just watch Mawana at
Speaker 1: five am every morning and it's killing me. So I'm
Speaker 1: not going to move him into the bottom bunk until
Speaker 1: he's done with that shit.
Speaker 3: What's wrong with Mawana? Does he go back to bed
Speaker 3: when he watches Mahana? Or no?
Speaker 1: No, no, we're up for the day at five point
Speaker 1: fifteen today five twenty five what a lion?
Speaker 2: Not for you because you have the bunk bed situation.
Speaker 2: But I did see a friend of mine post on
Speaker 2: her stories like the baby's waking up too early.
Speaker 3: I need advice.
Speaker 2: We're not a cry it out family, And to me,
Speaker 2: I'm like, then go fuck yourself. Yeah, I'm sorry, Like
Speaker 2: I'm If he was alone, I would let him cry
Speaker 2: it out and maybe I'll move him into another room
Speaker 2: and like resleep train him.
Speaker 1: But that's just a little bit tough because I just
Speaker 1: don't have the space in my house, so I me,
Speaker 1: it just bothers me. It's like, then, what advice do
Speaker 1: you want?
Speaker 2: Yeah, your baby's awake, go deal with it if you
Speaker 2: don't want them cry, Like, what advice do you It's
Speaker 2: like people being like, how do you get into stand
Speaker 2: up without working hard and doing it all the time.
Speaker 3: It's like, I don't know what to tell you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd love to just like get to the part
Speaker 1: where I'm headlining clubs. How what's your advice on that?
Speaker 1: You know, how do I get my baby to sleep?
Speaker 2: But I don't want to leave them crying and I
Speaker 2: don't actually want to wake up either.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1: No, I'm a cry it out person. I did sleep
Speaker 1: training with cry it Out. Let's like modified where you
Speaker 1: go in and you say I'm here, you're safe, so
Speaker 1: they don't feel like they're abandoned, but you don't touch them,
Speaker 1: you don't pick them up.
Speaker 3: Or he's probably too young.
Speaker 2: What I like that I saw on TikTok was like
Speaker 2: there's a green light and a red light and he's
Speaker 2: just can't do the house till the green light or
Speaker 2: the room.
Speaker 3: You know, but our.
Speaker 1: Mutual friend just told me she didn't start that until
Speaker 1: like two and a half. Like he's too young right now,
Speaker 1: he won't understand it. But when he's a little older,
Speaker 1: we're absolutely doing that fucking light.
Speaker 3: But it's not a.
Speaker 1: Problem for Rosie because that girl will sleep until seven.
Speaker 1: When we were on vacation in New York, she were
Speaker 1: sleeping until eight, eight thirty. I was like in heaven
Speaker 1: because I was going to bed at regular times and
Speaker 1: she was just like snooze and Lucci all morning. It
Speaker 1: was amazing. But I did take her to Lion King.
Speaker 1: She did really love it. But I told Lisa, Lisa
Speaker 1: got to see her right before. We have a cue picture.
Speaker 1: Maybe I'll post it on the Instagram page. But I
Speaker 1: was My experience was almost ruined by a crazy lady
Speaker 1: behind me who just kept telling me that I was
Speaker 1: moving too much. I had Rosie on my lap because
Speaker 1: there were no more boosters and I couldn't see. She
Speaker 1: couldn't see if I didn't hold her on my lap.
Speaker 1: She was honestly staying very still, and this woman was like,
Speaker 1: you keep moving, my daughter can't see anything. And I
Speaker 1: was like, you already moved your daughter down to the
Speaker 1: end of the aisle like it was crazy. She yelled
Speaker 1: at me twice and I was like, you need to
Speaker 1: go talk to an usher because I'm not doing anything wrong,
Speaker 1: Like I'm not going to deal with this with you,
Speaker 1: and then she stopped. But it kind of ruined the
Speaker 1: experience for me. But Lion King is really pretty and
Speaker 1: you know, beautifully done, good for kids.
Speaker 3: So you hated it. I liked it.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't go back and be like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: it's wicked. I'll see it as many times as I
Speaker 1: can in my lifetime, but like it's good, you know,
Speaker 1: it's really good.
Speaker 2: Also, congrats to SVU getting picked up for two more seasons.
Speaker 3: Oh was it two? Two more seasons?
Speaker 2: We got to see this twenty five twenty six commitment,
Speaker 2: so hopefully I.
Speaker 1: Was thinking, I was like yeah, I was just thinking like, yeah,
Speaker 1: wouldn't it be so random with it out of nowhere
Speaker 1: they were just like, yep, this is gonna be svu's
Speaker 1: last season. It's not gonna go it's not gonna stop
Speaker 1: till Marishka wants it to stop.
Speaker 3: I'm sure.
Speaker 2: So I'm glad we get two more and selfishly, I
Speaker 2: hope I know get an audition.
Speaker 1: Jeez, I you know I flopped what ten years ago?
Speaker 1: Give her another chance? Now, do you have to like
Speaker 1: be registered as like a local person?
Speaker 3: Maybe, but you can be.
Speaker 2: No, it doesn't matter if I'm a local higher and
Speaker 2: I pay my own way. They yeah, you just fly
Speaker 2: out there, wouldn't they make it happen. You've got to
Speaker 2: make it happen. Let's start start episode. Guys, We've got
Speaker 2: a good one for you today. So stay right where
Speaker 2: you are, all right, Today's episode Inheritance. It is season
Speaker 2: three Back in the Marishka Short Hair.
Speaker 3: Days, episode eight. Yeah.
Speaker 1: This episode came out like November of two thousand and one,
Speaker 1: so back in the day, a post nine to eleven world.
Speaker 2: Whoa yeah, Like really, Clese, I mean, I'm a freshman
Speaker 2: in high school here. This is wild? Yeah, yeah wild.
Speaker 2: You know, my best Sie Julia said that people ask
Speaker 2: her all the time, like if I really actually like
Speaker 2: SCVU or not. And you know, I was staying with
Speaker 2: her in New York a few a while ago, and
Speaker 2: she like she just kept hearing it from my room
Speaker 2: or like she would come to the living room and
Speaker 2: it'd be on the TV, and.
Speaker 3: She's like, I like that.
Speaker 2: I could really tell people that you're in it, that
Speaker 2: you are watching.
Speaker 3: What a wild thing to think.
Speaker 1: That we're faking, Like what you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: like that you don't really like it that much, but
Speaker 1: like you're just doing a podcast where we go so
Speaker 1: deep into it all but every week.
Speaker 3: That's what I said.
Speaker 2: And then she gave an example of someone we know
Speaker 2: that does do a podcast about something that I don't
Speaker 2: know if they actually care about.
Speaker 1: Well, people are sociopaths, that's yeah, Yeah, that's not totally.
Speaker 2: Because I reacted the same way you did. I was like,
Speaker 2: who would do that? And then she had an example
Speaker 2: a B. C. D. Like we know crazy people. That's
Speaker 2: so true. Yeah, but I have been watching I guess
Speaker 2: for decades, like it is sick, Like I remember these
Speaker 2: when I was younger, and now I remember them now,
Speaker 2: and I've watched this so many times, and I'm so.
Speaker 3: I don't.
Speaker 2: I just remember this episode so vividly, and I feel
Speaker 2: lucky that we finally got.
Speaker 3: To cover it. Yes, we've been waiting.
Speaker 2: We've been wanting to cover this for a long long time,
Speaker 2: so I'm glad we get to finally do it.
Speaker 1: Yes, this one totally totally like it sticks in my brain.
Speaker 3: It's one of those ones. Okay, So let's get started.
Speaker 1: Open on a doctor describing the wounds of this woman,
Speaker 1: and we're going the camera's going over her face. She's
Speaker 1: got orbital fractures, knife lacerations, she's wearing a neck brace.
Speaker 1: So we find out that she is actually alive, but
Speaker 1: despite the best efforts of whoever attacked her, like, she
Speaker 1: has been very severely beatn It's hard to watch, and
Speaker 1: there's it's like there's kind of one of those effects
Speaker 1: where like a camera's taking photos of her wounds and
Speaker 1: it's like a freeze frame in the episode, and that's
Speaker 1: not something they usually do, but it is season three,
Speaker 1: so they're still experimenting. It reminded me, of course, of
Speaker 1: silence of the Lambs when they're like taking the photos
Speaker 1: of the body, and it's like you know and like
Speaker 1: you It's like that was a very The sound of
Speaker 1: that camera will be in my head forever. But Benson
Speaker 1: and Stable are standing over her. Basically, cops that were
Speaker 1: responding to a burglar alarm found her outside a warehouse
Speaker 1: in Chinatown. She also has cigarette burns on her arm,
Speaker 1: and she has a tattoo of a purple dragon. The
Speaker 1: rape kit shows fluids, but then it's the fluids are
Speaker 1: tainted from bleach, so whoever did this had bleach on
Speaker 1: them was like covering it up. So she won't be
Speaker 1: able to talk tonight, the doctor says, and Benson's like,
Speaker 1: she's gonna have plates in her face for the rest
Speaker 1: of her life. Like this is a lot of rage
Speaker 1: for whoever did this. And also the alley where they
Speaker 1: found her was in full view of the streets, so
Speaker 1: pretty ballsy, like person who did this? And Benson and
Speaker 1: Stabler are chatting and they're like, also, what are the
Speaker 1: chances that the assault of this woman and the burglary
Speaker 1: are unrelated?
Speaker 3: And Benson's like, do you believe in coincidences? And then dun, dun,
Speaker 3: dun dun.
Speaker 1: We are into the credits, and so now we're at
Speaker 1: the crime scene and it's Benson, Stabler, Fin and Munch
Speaker 1: the major four, and the burglars apparently took fifty thousand
Speaker 1: dollars in high speed computer processors, so this is like
Speaker 1: sort of a more upscale robbery. It's not like a
Speaker 1: smash and grab for drugs or whatever. It's like, where
Speaker 1: are you gonna move computer processors? Do you know where
Speaker 1: to sell those. It was five masked men. They jumped
Speaker 1: a janitor, locked him in the utility closet.
Speaker 3: Non violent.
Speaker 1: I like that they didn't kill him. And the vic
Speaker 1: and we saw earlier is Helen Chen. She's nineteen, lives
Speaker 1: on Hester Street, which is in Chinatown in New York.
Speaker 1: Stables shows them a picture of Helen's tattoo, and Finn
Speaker 1: has the lowdown. He's like, women aren't members of Asian gangs.
Speaker 1: They're just associates through bros and bfs, like brothers and boyfriends.
Speaker 1: But I wonder, like, are there gangs where women are members?
Speaker 1: Like are there female members of the mafia? I know
Speaker 1: there's not female members of motorcycle clubs. Really, there's just
Speaker 1: like what do they call them? I forget what they
Speaker 1: call them. But there's like women that are part of
Speaker 1: my motorcycle clubs that they always say in sons of anarchy,
Speaker 1: And there's like the Irish mob. There's all kinds of
Speaker 1: organized crime and women can play parts like run drugs,
Speaker 1: keep secrets.
Speaker 3: But are they ever like full fledged members? Have you
Speaker 3: ever heard of one?
Speaker 2: No? But and like I guess I have visions of
Speaker 2: like maybe some old matriarch that's truly in charge somewhere.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: No, No, if you're a super masculine organization, you don't
Speaker 2: respect women, that's a part of it.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think all gangs like because they're like women.
Speaker 1: Women aren't eight members of Asian gangs, Like it's a
Speaker 1: separate like it's specific to Asian gangs.
Speaker 3: I'm like, I think that's all gangs. Like, I don't
Speaker 3: think that.
Speaker 1: I don't think, uh, what is the big one that
Speaker 1: ever that the Republicans were MS thirteen. I don't think
Speaker 1: they have female members, you know, Like, I don't think
Speaker 1: that there's that.
Speaker 2: I do remember daytime talk shows where there were a
Speaker 2: lot of like Latina ctyle gangs where you can beat
Speaker 2: your way into that. Like, I don't I don't know.
Speaker 2: I don't think it's good. I don't know why you would.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I don't know why you're asking me, Like I'm a pro,
Speaker 2: like I have the low down on gangs.
Speaker 1: I have no idea, Liza, I'm asking because of all
Speaker 1: your experience in the gang unit when you worked.
Speaker 3: At the Chicago PD growing up.
Speaker 1: No, I was just wondering if you'd ever heard of
Speaker 1: it in all of our all of our travels, some
Speaker 1: prime and stuff.
Speaker 2: I'm like, I think on Jenny Jones there were like
Speaker 2: girls with lipliner and baggy pants that were in the gang.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they would call the girls like gang bangers,
Speaker 1: like and they're they're hanging out with gangbangers, but I
Speaker 1: don't think they're ever members. But anyway, Munch says something
Speaker 1: judge about Helen, about her associating with unsavory characters because
Speaker 1: of the tattoo, which seems like a weird thing for
Speaker 1: Munch to do.
Speaker 3: Munch has a tattoo, and.
Speaker 1: Finn knows a guy in gangs who knows all about
Speaker 1: these tattoos and witch gangs go to which tattoos, so
Speaker 1: they'll go talk to him. Here we are, Munch and
Speaker 1: Finn are talking to Matt Sue, a detective who tells
Speaker 1: them about the that the burns could be about initiation,
Speaker 1: it could be about number of kills, it could be
Speaker 1: a punishment, it could mean a lot of things. He's
Speaker 1: being kind of like, not like glib, he just kind
Speaker 1: of doesn't know a lot of specific answers for them.
Speaker 1: He shows them tattoo the tattoo and he's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: that could be Chinese gang and they're.
Speaker 3: Like, that's all you got for us.
Speaker 1: And he goes, dude, I worked two years undercover in
Speaker 1: Chinatown and I barely scratch the surface, like they these
Speaker 1: people don't want to talk to cops, Like I didn't
Speaker 1: get a lot of information, like information. I guess the
Speaker 1: computer chip thing he says, also makes sense if that
Speaker 1: seems like a Chinese gang. And also they do use
Speaker 1: rape as punishment, so maybe she broke the rules somehow.
Speaker 1: So now they're at the hospital, Benson and Stabler are
Speaker 1: talking to Helen and then her brother Johnny is there,
Speaker 1: and this guy is it's played by Nelson Lee, who,
Speaker 1: if you remember, was Sergeant Joe Chin in the episode
Speaker 1: counselor It's Chinatown. So he literally this actor went from
Speaker 1: playing like a like a kid who might be gang
Speaker 1: affiliated to like a full sergeant in the Gang Unit.
Speaker 1: So along a walk from season three to twenty one
Speaker 1: or something, but we.
Speaker 2: Covered that episode, yeah, the one where Margaret show it
Speaker 2: was our guest, so yeah, like one of my visit,
Speaker 2: one of our earliest ones and truly a favorite.
Speaker 1: Helen is lying on the end this hospital bed with
Speaker 1: her jaw wired shut and Johnny's like, don't make her cry.
Speaker 1: She starts to choke and they have to snap her
Speaker 1: jaw back open, and it's like fuck, like that's horrible,
Speaker 1: Like she's only making like little noises, and so they
Speaker 1: pull Johnny aside. They're like, Okay, if we can't talk
Speaker 1: to her, let's talk to the brother. And like she's
Speaker 1: as he's talking, she's just grunting and whining through the jaw,
Speaker 1: like just to be like shut up. Don't say anything
Speaker 1: to her brother, I guess, and he's like, I don't
Speaker 1: know why she was in the alley, and they noticed
Speaker 1: that he has a mark on his arm where a
Speaker 1: tattoo was lasered off, and he's like, I'm not in
Speaker 1: a gang. I was with the Ghost Shadows, but I
Speaker 1: got out. Helen is still in with her boyfriend who's
Speaker 1: Vietnamese named Doo Tran, and Johnny says that he told
Speaker 1: Doo to stay away from Helen, and Doo said he'd
Speaker 1: kill Johnny if he got in between them, and he
Speaker 1: says Dow is the one that robbed the warehouse, so
Speaker 1: a lot of info were getting from this brother here.
Speaker 1: Sabler suggests that maybe the Ghost Shadows did the robbery
Speaker 1: and raped Helen to get back at Johnny for bouncing
Speaker 1: out of the gang, and he goes, no, the ghost
Speaker 1: Shadows would never do that. They know I'd kill anyone
Speaker 1: who hurt Helen. So he tells them they can find
Speaker 1: Doo and his gang is called the Born to Kill
Speaker 1: Boys at this restaurant on Canal Street, and born to Kill,
Speaker 1: I guess, he explains, is a ref friends from Vietnam
Speaker 1: and it's what American soldiers had written on their helmets,
Speaker 1: so yes, more money for the military. Anyway, at the restaurant,
Speaker 1: it's Munch Fin Live and Stabler and they show up
Speaker 1: looking for Dow and immediately there's like a hostess that's
Speaker 1: like stonewalling. But the guy shows up and sees them
Speaker 1: and starts running into the kitchen, so they chase them
Speaker 1: into the kitchen, iced Tea grabs his ass and he's
Speaker 1: like banging his head against a bunch of dead chickens
Speaker 1: that are hanging on the wall. So very cinematic. And
Speaker 1: then they've got Dow in interrogation talking a Stabler. And
Speaker 1: this actor is a guy named Kevin Louie and acting
Speaker 1: did not work out for him. He has not been
Speaker 1: in anything really. He did like two or three things.
Speaker 1: Actually he was in Sex and the City as intern
Speaker 1: and then this and then one other thing, and that's it.
Speaker 1: He stopped acting. But he is very hot. I'm surprised
Speaker 1: that didn't work out for him. He's a hot man.
Speaker 1: Dow's like, I haven't seen Helen in a week, and
Speaker 1: he's like, I didn't rape Helen. I love her, So
Speaker 1: twists they broke up, but they are still in love.
Speaker 1: He says Helen told him that the ghost Shadows did
Speaker 1: the warehouse and that she was the lookout, and he's like,
Speaker 1: he's like, I promise you Johnny did this.
Speaker 3: He ordered to have it done.
Speaker 1: Like maybe he obviously didn't rape his own sister, but
Speaker 1: he ordered it to be done. She didn't want to
Speaker 1: do the gangshit anymore, but Johnny had a hold on her,
Speaker 1: and he says, Johnny made Helen give herself the burnmarks.
Speaker 1: And they're like, okay, well it's your word against his,
Speaker 1: and he's like, ask Helen. So now they go back
Speaker 1: to Helen, who now can talk more like her jaws
Speaker 1: still a shot, but she can still talk like this,
Speaker 1: and so it's like, but before she couldn't talk at all,
Speaker 1: So I don't know if some swelling went down or whatever,
Speaker 1: but she's got full metal head stabilizer head gear going on.
Speaker 3: I knew a kid in school who had to walk
Speaker 3: around in that.
Speaker 1: I knew this kid who was two grades blow me
Speaker 1: my sister's class, and he had to walk around with
Speaker 1: like full metal sticks cubes keeping his head stabilized at
Speaker 1: all times. I don't know what kind of injury he had,
Speaker 1: but not a good one. So Helen says her brother
Speaker 1: was not involved in her attack, and neither was Dow.
Speaker 1: Dow loves me, so we do see there's a cute
Speaker 1: little love story going on with these two. Maybe in
Speaker 1: a little bit of a sharks versus Jets situation. They
Speaker 1: mentioned her brother making her burn her arm, and she
Speaker 1: doesn't really fight them on it, so maybe he did
Speaker 1: do that. She says she doesn't remember her attacker. She
Speaker 1: got hit and passed out, and then she's crying at
Speaker 1: the idea that her brother just left her there to
Speaker 1: die and may have been the one who ordered the attack.
Speaker 1: So she tells Benson and Sabler about a house where
Speaker 1: the ghost shadows keep their scores. When the SVU squad
Speaker 1: shows up at the house to nab Johnny, they find
Speaker 1: detectives Sue our special gang unit guy from earlier. They're
Speaker 1: conducting a full raid and Munch is like, what the fuck, dude,
Speaker 1: you knew that tattoo was ghost Shadows and you lied
Speaker 1: about it. And he's like, I couldn't tell you. It's
Speaker 1: always like you would have jeopardized a fifteen month investigation.
Speaker 1: That's like we hear that line all the time. So
Speaker 1: he's like, I couldn't tell you. And just as you
Speaker 1: think they're going to get into like a jurisdictional pissing match,
Speaker 1: which they love to do, Sue goes, you guys want Johnny,
Speaker 1: he's yours, and they just hand him over to SVU
Speaker 1: and Stabler like hauls him away. So now we're in
Speaker 1: interrogation with Johnny and he's like, I didn't do anything.
Speaker 3: I provide for Helen. I take care of Helen.
Speaker 1: He's very like late nineties early aughts punk guy. He's
Speaker 1: got like spiky hair, chunky metal necklace, like that's the
Speaker 1: whole look with this guy. He already got got on
Speaker 1: the burglaries.
Speaker 2: He could have he could have gone to Emo Night
Speaker 2: with Arianna, Sheena and Katie.
Speaker 1: For sure, absolutely absolutely he would have fit right on it.
Speaker 3: I want to go to emo night.
Speaker 1: I have gone to one of those nights, or I've
Speaker 1: gone to a goth night in La And the goth
Speaker 1: night is more the cure than you think. Like it's
Speaker 1: all very like light music. It's like the cure in
Speaker 1: the Smiths. It's not like I don't know. I just
Speaker 1: thought goth music would be more like dark metal and stuff.
Speaker 3: But it wasn't.
Speaker 1: No, because that's metal, I know, but that's what I
Speaker 1: thought goth people listened to.
Speaker 3: I didn't know that goth music was like, you're a poser.
Speaker 1: Well, I I went with friends who are self described goths.
Speaker 1: I was just a tag along, definitely a poser. I
Speaker 1: was a drag along. It was a goth drag along.
Speaker 3: So it was so funny.
Speaker 2: On Tricksy and Katya's podcast, they were talking about goths
Speaker 2: and tricks He's like, where are all the goths?
Speaker 1: And Kantya goes at the goth clubs you more on.
Speaker 1: So Johnny's already gotten got on the burglary. So he
Speaker 1: admits that when they went into the warehouse, Helen was fine.
Speaker 1: She was the lookout we went in to do the robbery.
Speaker 1: But when we came out. I didn't see her. I
Speaker 1: thought she just ran off.
Speaker 3: But then he.
Speaker 1: Finds her, okay, and he goes, she was so beat up,
Speaker 1: I heard sirens.
Speaker 3: She looked dead. So he just got the fuck out
Speaker 3: of there and stay.
Speaker 1: Benson's like, so you saved your own ass, and he's like,
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, basically I thought she was dead. So
Speaker 1: then in the middle of interrogation, Craigan pulls them out
Speaker 1: with the classic our guys struck again and bleach Man
Speaker 1: is back. He says, so, apparently, thirty minutes ago in Chinatown,
Speaker 1: another victim has been attacked, but this time she is dead. Done, done, okay.
Speaker 1: So now top of AC two, we're at the crime scene.
Speaker 1: Benson's walking and talking with Lance Reddick, who so sadly
Speaker 1: died recently. He was an emmy in the early episodes
Speaker 1: of the show, and he must have been like an
Speaker 1: emmy on episodes where like tomorrow too, and he wasn't
Speaker 1: available because he was on seasons one, two, and three.
Speaker 1: But she comes in season two and she's on all
Speaker 1: the time, and then he's just sprinkled in in the
Speaker 1: rest of.
Speaker 3: Two and three. He was in six episodes.
Speaker 1: This is his last one and obviously I love him
Speaker 1: from Bosh. He was also in Corporate, a comedy on
Speaker 1: Comedy Central and the John Wick Movies, and I just
Speaker 1: love Lance Reddick. And I just wanted to take a
Speaker 1: second to say I was so sorry to hear that
Speaker 1: he died like he apparently had a heart incident, is
Speaker 1: what did it? And his family said that doesn't make
Speaker 1: any sense because he had this healthy lifestyle, and it
Speaker 1: just makes you scared because you know, my husband's got
Speaker 1: a grandma who's just sitting around eating cheeseburgers and she's
Speaker 1: ninety four. But then other people are, you know, healthy, young,
Speaker 1: and just dropping dead. So you never know with life,
Speaker 1: live every day like it's your last. Anyway.
Speaker 3: The victim in this crime is Asian.
Speaker 1: Bleach was used to clean it up, and she was
Speaker 1: beaten around the face and head, exactly like Helen's situation.
Speaker 3: But this girl fought back.
Speaker 1: She had blood underneath her fingernails that must have made
Speaker 1: the perp mad, and so he carved something into her chest.
Speaker 3: They say it's a slur.
Speaker 1: I can't make out what it is, and Benson's like, oh,
Speaker 1: this guy's racist. Could you see what it said? I
Speaker 1: watched it twice, so I couldn't see if it said anything.
Speaker 3: Then I thought, is it.
Speaker 1: A slur in like Asian characters? But I really couldn't
Speaker 1: make it out. But Benson comes to the conclusion, Okay,
Speaker 1: this guy's are racist. He's attacking Asian women like for
Speaker 1: a reason, so these are hate crimes. In Kragan's office,
Speaker 1: the gang is gathered around, but they don't have much
Speaker 1: to go on.
Speaker 3: Huong is there.
Speaker 1: He's like, the brutality suggests tremendous anger against Asian women.
Speaker 1: He was probably victimized by Asians at some point. It's
Speaker 1: like you're giving him a lot of credit. Hoong, he
Speaker 1: could just hate Asian people. I mean, I feel like
Speaker 1: there are men that have not been victimized by a
Speaker 1: certain group and just hate them, such as women. But
Speaker 1: this guy is so confident to believe that he won't
Speaker 1: get caught. But Houong's like, but maybe he wasn't always.
Speaker 1: I would look into his past, maybe you'll find smaller
Speaker 1: acts of aggression like peeping exposure. He definitely built his
Speaker 1: way up to this, And Craigan's like, I'll call the
Speaker 1: Bias Task Force, have them send over anything involving hate
Speaker 1: crimes against Asian women. This is one of the episodes too,
Speaker 1: where you really see them like chipping away with the
Speaker 1: detective work because they don't have anything to go on initially,
Speaker 1: and they really get to some shit.
Speaker 2: So of course, I'm just glad that this brother didn't
Speaker 2: set up his sister, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, he did just run away when he saw
Speaker 1: her there dying, but he did not set her up
Speaker 1: to be attacked.
Speaker 3: So that is a good that is a good part
Speaker 3: of it.
Speaker 1: So of course, whenever they get sent a bunch of
Speaker 1: boxes of files, Munch is pissed, right, Munches, They're like, God,
Speaker 1: there's nothing here, Like they always have Munch complaining whenever
Speaker 1: they're fielding calls and tips or whenever they're looking through
Speaker 1: file boxes, Munches not having a good time. He's like,
Speaker 1: there's nothing here but pages of racist scum, nothing specific.
Speaker 1: They're like, Oh, there's this peeping top who got away.
Speaker 1: There's a guy who shoved a woman and yelled a
Speaker 1: slur but then disappeared. Like this guy's invisible, and it's
Speaker 1: like it might not all be him.
Speaker 3: They're a racists everywhere.
Speaker 1: Oh, and they're still waiting on the results from the
Speaker 1: fingernail blood so the girl the last victim that got
Speaker 1: the blood on her nails, they're still waiting on sorology.
Speaker 1: So Huang surprised that this guy was so careless to
Speaker 1: leave DNA behind when he's like meticulous about the bleach,
Speaker 1: so his rage maybe escalating. Live finds a complaint where
Speaker 1: a woman placed an ad in a Chinese newspaper and
Speaker 1: the guy pulled a utility blade on her, and that
Speaker 1: is the same thing that cut up the last victim,
Speaker 1: whose name was Lucy Zang. I thought I said that before.
Speaker 1: So the girl dropped the complaint the next day, let's
Speaker 1: go talk to her. Benson's like a translator is going
Speaker 1: to take a long time, and Stabler goes, Hwong, do
Speaker 1: you mind translating? And he goes, you just assume I
Speaker 1: speak Chinese and he goes, no, I heard you order
Speaker 1: take out once. So that's like a little funny moment
Speaker 1: between them. It's oh, it's not even the first time.
Speaker 2: I feel like that, because wasn't there also an issue
Speaker 2: with this in the debt episode as well.
Speaker 1: I haven't seen that one in a while, the mngnah
Speaker 1: when I haven't seen it a little bit?
Speaker 2: Why I feel there's also a thing of like can
Speaker 2: you translate?
Speaker 3: And he's like, how dare you?
Speaker 2: Like, I I just feel this isn't the first time
Speaker 2: where he's like pissed that stable at like I don't know,
Speaker 2: but Stabler is, and he's always mad at Stabler. I mean,
Speaker 2: Stabler is a like a he's the prototype of a
Speaker 2: cop that we would hate.
Speaker 3: Yes, and he does seem like he would be racist.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, but I'm thinking of the thing where
Speaker 2: it's like wacky African art and yes, he's like why
Speaker 2: does it have to be wacky?
Speaker 1: And he's like, well if I'm paying for it, and yeah,
Speaker 1: so he's not wrong in this case. Huang does speak
Speaker 1: Chinese and so there go and they talk to Sonya
Speaker 1: he's translating. He explains that she came from China to
Speaker 1: live with her aunt. She tried to meet people through
Speaker 1: personal ads in the China Sun newspaper. Her and this
Speaker 1: guy who was an engineer from Beijing back and forth
Speaker 1: for a while. They were going to have dinner, but
Speaker 1: she said when she arrived it was all lies and
Speaker 1: they're like, what do you mean it was all lies?
Speaker 1: And she's like, he wasn't Chinese, he was black. As
Speaker 1: they leave, the interview, Stabler's like, how many African American
Speaker 1: males are so good at Chinese that they could fool
Speaker 1: a native speaker.
Speaker 3: And it's like, well, is that racist? You can't assume
Speaker 3: that you know whatever.
Speaker 1: So then Huang go's, well, he might be a student
Speaker 1: or work at the World Bank, like he could have
Speaker 1: a job where he needs to use Chinese. Then he
Speaker 1: lies about his own race because these women wouldn't show
Speaker 1: up if they knew that he was black, and he
Speaker 1: assumes once they've met, the woman will be so into him,
Speaker 1: but then her reaction to his race is what sets
Speaker 1: him off. So that's an interesting like profile of this guy,
Speaker 1: like he kind of knows what the reaction is going
Speaker 1: to be, but then he's still almost catfishes people into
Speaker 1: meeting him.
Speaker 3: And then it.
Speaker 1: Turns out he placed the ad in the paper with
Speaker 1: a stolen credit card. So now they go and they
Speaker 1: trace the guy who had his credit card stolen. This
Speaker 1: is Larry Tang. I actually I know this guy. He
Speaker 1: is a stand up comedian named Elliott Chang. He's done
Speaker 1: my shows many times. Wow, and he just yeah, he
Speaker 1: hasn't done that much acting, but this is one of
Speaker 1: the roles he did. He's like an HTML coder who
Speaker 1: the purp sole is the credit card from?
Speaker 3: And he's like, yeah, I was abroad for a while.
Speaker 1: I guess they just didn't notice and there were all
Speaker 1: these random charges and so like he's very clueless, like
Speaker 1: you know, just doesn't realize. And then he goes, but
Speaker 1: whoever did it probably was trying to hide something from
Speaker 1: their wife. And then he shows them the statement and
Speaker 1: there's like China Girl, a charge to China Girl for
Speaker 1: two hundred bucks. And that's a massage parlor that they
Speaker 1: all act like they know is not really a massage
Speaker 1: parlor or massaging is only partially the services that you get.
Speaker 1: So now we're at the massage parlor. There's like twenty
Speaker 1: seven locations in this episode. We're at the massage parlor.
Speaker 1: They obviously threatened the owner with a raid, as they
Speaker 1: usually do, and ask about an African American man with
Speaker 1: the credit card, Larry Tang, who came in two weeks ago,
Speaker 1: and he goes, I don't even need to look at
Speaker 1: my records. I know exactly who you're talking about. He
Speaker 1: tried to kill one of my girls. And then they
Speaker 1: bust in on this girl. Clearly not giving a massage
Speaker 1: to a large white man who is very shocked. And
Speaker 1: then they are separately in a room talking to her
Speaker 1: and she's like, yeah, the guy who attacked me was young,
Speaker 1: in his twenties. There was nothing really special about him.
Speaker 1: He said he wanted a girlfriend. I guess I laughed
Speaker 1: at one point and he got mad. He punched me.
Speaker 1: He pulled out a little army knife. He called me names.
Speaker 1: And then she shows what like right like not her shoulder,
Speaker 1: but not her breasts, like that little area right there,
Speaker 1: he kind of like upper chest. He cut her really
Speaker 1: badly and there's like a deep cup there, and she
Speaker 1: can give them a description for a sketch artist. So
Speaker 1: now the gang is back at the squad, still trying
Speaker 1: to figure this out. The sketch has been spread out
Speaker 1: and they got nothing. No one is biting on this sketch.
Speaker 1: This guy Huang says picked a particularly insular culture. And
Speaker 1: he's like, I know, if my sister dated a black guy,
Speaker 1: my parents would not They would have strongly objected. And
Speaker 1: of course, in my mind that sister is Margaret Chow,
Speaker 1: because she has cast herself as that and we have
Speaker 1: agreed to that casting. When hopefully they both come back
Speaker 1: for future episode. He puts himself in a position to
Speaker 1: get rejected and it's like he wants an excuse to
Speaker 1: get mad this guy, and then Munch comes in. Finally
Speaker 1: there's a hit on the blood as an African American
Speaker 1: man who was sent up state on multiple rapes and
Speaker 1: homicides and was released last year. So like, okay, this
Speaker 1: is our guy. So they go find him at this
Speaker 1: halfway house. But when they sort of get eyes on him,
Speaker 1: he is in a wheelchair and the guy taking them
Speaker 1: up there taking them to him, is like, yeah, this
Speaker 1: is a halfway house for men with disabilities. So Harold
Speaker 1: starns this like convicted murderer rapists who's been let out
Speaker 1: probably for compassionate release, has advanced MS. And the actor
Speaker 1: is actually Arthur French and Lisa. He was in the
Speaker 1: episode Vulnerable, the Andy Powers episode that we did remember
Speaker 1: when he's like a bad nurse at a nursing home
Speaker 1: and remember the guy who's like I saw Klansmen in
Speaker 1: the hallways.
Speaker 3: That's this guy. Wow.
Speaker 4: Wow.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we liked him, and sadly.
Speaker 1: He did pass away in July of twenty twenty one,
Speaker 1: but he was a very well known television and theater
Speaker 1: actor like doing a lot of New York stuff. So
Speaker 1: Arthur French, I think I said, what's his name? And
Speaker 1: this guy's like, I ain't helping the cops. And they're like, okay,
Speaker 1: but your DNA was all over a murder victim, so
Speaker 1: what's up? And he goes, I can't. He goes, I
Speaker 1: can't even get out of this chair, boy, And if
Speaker 1: I could, I wouldn't be it wouldn't be to get
Speaker 1: with no downtown bitch, Neil bhar.
Speaker 3: I hope you wrote that line.
Speaker 1: And so they're like, do you got any brothers, cousins
Speaker 1: who'd want to set you up? And he's like, I
Speaker 1: don't know. And then Olivia has like a light bulb moment.
Speaker 1: She goes, do you have any children? And he's like,
Speaker 1: what are you offering? And she goes, well, you've raped
Speaker 1: a lot of women. You could have gotten someone pregnant.
Speaker 1: And he's like, I guess so, lady. So now top
Speaker 1: of act three, we're at the lab and a tech
Speaker 1: is confirming that he's talking about a lot.
Speaker 3: Of legal DNA stuff. I'm a little bit confused.
Speaker 1: Why DNA would pop on someone who's the son unless
Speaker 1: they were only testing the paternal DNA. But it turns
Speaker 1: out these guys blood situations, they're alleles or whatever, are
Speaker 1: so close that they are definitely blood relatives and this
Speaker 1: guy could be the son because the DNA is super close.
Speaker 1: So now they have to go back and look at
Speaker 1: all of Starnes's victims. We've got Martha Shelby who had
Speaker 1: a child that fits the timeline after her assault and
Speaker 1: no father listed. And then Starnes also had a girlfriend
Speaker 1: at the time named Pamela Tatum, and she had a
Speaker 1: kid while they were together, and he'd be twenty three now.
Speaker 1: So Finn brings up like, wouldn't it be wild if
Speaker 1: the father and the son were both rapists, and Huang
Speaker 1: chimes in and is like, yeah, I mean, some geneticists
Speaker 1: think that violence is inherited, and you know, drink because
Speaker 1: that's basically the name of the episode. And then Benson
Speaker 1: says that theory is ridiculous. It's just another way for
Speaker 1: people to not take responsibility for their actions. And you know,
Speaker 1: we know that in very recent believe. I don't know
Speaker 1: if her mom dies in season two or three, but
Speaker 1: we kind of she's been trying to figure out, like
Speaker 1: who her mother's rapist was and stuff, So we know
Speaker 1: this is going to sort of hit for Live a
Speaker 1: little bit. So then Craigan goes, let's find the guy.
Speaker 1: We can discuss the human genome project later. And then
Speaker 1: Sabler asks Benson if she's all right, and she's like,
Speaker 1: I'm fine, like brushes it off, but obviously not fine.
Speaker 1: So they go talk to Martha Shelby and we find
Speaker 1: out very quickly that her child was born premature and
Speaker 1: only lived for two hours. Feels like something that would
Speaker 1: be a public record and at the very least could
Speaker 1: have been a phone call. But they needed this scene
Speaker 1: so that the woman could have the opportunity to say
Speaker 1: it was better for me not to have the constant
Speaker 1: reminder of my rape and to make Live feel bad
Speaker 1: about herself, like we needed this scene. So now Live
Speaker 1: seems rattled, like, oh my god, was I like a
Speaker 1: constant torture for my mother to face me every.
Speaker 3: Day and whatever?
Speaker 1: Outside Stabler's like, are you going to just pretend this
Speaker 1: isn't bothering you? And she's like, knock it off, Elliott,
Speaker 1: and he's like, what Professor Shelby said in there didn't
Speaker 1: get to you. And she's like, I've been a child
Speaker 1: of rape for a long time. I've known it my
Speaker 1: whole life. I've dealt with it. I'm fine, done, Okay.
Speaker 1: So she's being very maloney here and refusing to talk
Speaker 1: about her feelings now, so.
Speaker 3: She's allowed to not talk about her feelings at work.
Speaker 1: Elliott, Yes, yes, very true. So now we're talking to
Speaker 1: Pamela Tatum. It's Munch and Finn go to talk to
Speaker 1: Pamela Tatum, who was Starnes's living girlfriend, and she's like,
Speaker 1: that motherfucker like lived with me for all these years,
Speaker 1: and you know what I got out of it. He
Speaker 1: raped and killed my best friend in my own building.
Speaker 1: And it's like, fuck, lady, you have had a life.
Speaker 1: She's like, I had a son, Michael, but hell no,
Speaker 1: Harold is not his father. And they're kind of like, yeah,
Speaker 1: but you slept with a lot of guys. You don't
Speaker 1: really know who the father is. They're kind of slept
Speaker 1: shaming her a little bit. Michael walks in and he
Speaker 1: goes what's going on and they're like, well, what's up?
Speaker 3: Where have you been?
Speaker 1: And he's like, I've been at my girlfriend's in DC
Speaker 1: for the last two weeks. Munch is like slept, shaming
Speaker 1: the mom for not knowing who the dad is, and
Speaker 1: so Finn tells the son, listen, if you're innocent, you've
Speaker 1: got nothing to hide, but she's like, get out of
Speaker 1: my house. So Michael follows them to the elevator and
Speaker 1: he's like, guys, like, seriously, I didn't do anything. And
Speaker 1: he's like, but I don't really want to know if
Speaker 1: I'm Harold's son. Is there a way we could do
Speaker 1: this without DNA? And they're like, what about a lineup?
Speaker 1: Will you stand for a lineup? And he's like, yes,
Speaker 1: of course, because they can ask Helen, although Helen didn't
Speaker 1: see her attacker.
Speaker 3: Oh, they can the woman who got attacked at the
Speaker 3: massage parlor.
Speaker 1: So at the precinct, Craigan tells them, you know, we
Speaker 1: don't need to put Michael in the lineup.
Speaker 3: His alibi cleared.
Speaker 1: He was seen in DC and then Pamela mentioned that
Speaker 1: Starnes lived in Flatbush before Harlem. We never looked at
Speaker 1: him for his rapes in Brooklyn, So they go get
Speaker 1: the files. Now we are at the apartment of Susan
Speaker 1: Gwan and this she is played by y Ching Ho
Speaker 1: and she's a very well known actress. She's in another
Speaker 1: episode of SVU called Lost Traveler, which we covered early on.
Speaker 1: She's in Nora from Queens. She was just in a
Speaker 1: recent episode of OC and if you've seen Turning Red,
Speaker 1: a very popular Disney movie starring little girls that turned
Speaker 1: into Red Pandas, she's the voice of the grandma. So
Speaker 1: I thought that was fun because I watched that a
Speaker 1: couple of times with Rosie. But she's got along IMDb
Speaker 1: and has been working for a long time. And Benson
Speaker 1: and Stabler are like, where's your son Darryl, And she's like,
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 3: Sometimes he doesn't come home.
Speaker 1: And then they ask her about her rape in nineteen
Speaker 1: seventy seven and if she became pregnant as a result,
Speaker 1: and she's very like skittish at first, like is my
Speaker 1: rapist out here? Like is he still out there? And
Speaker 1: she's like, no, he'll be in a wheelchair for the
Speaker 1: rest of his life. And that kind of like makes her,
Speaker 1: you know, calm down a little bit, and she confirms
Speaker 1: that he was the father she got pregnant after her
Speaker 1: assault and thought maybe something good could come out of it.
Speaker 1: And then Stabler clocks Daryl in a picture and they
Speaker 1: tell her about the blood at the murder scene and
Speaker 1: she says, oh, no, he's a good boy, and then
Speaker 1: she immediately changes her tune and she goes, no, it's
Speaker 1: my fault. I thought my family would accept him because
Speaker 1: he was mine, but they didn't. My parents told me
Speaker 1: to get rid of him, that he was half devil.
Speaker 1: Neighborhood kids taunted him, hurt him. He would cry to
Speaker 1: me every single day. Stabler's like, why didn't you move away?
Speaker 1: And she was like, I guess part of me hated
Speaker 1: him too. Fuck pretty dark. They're looking through his room
Speaker 1: and Stabler is like, he doesn't look like the sketch.
Speaker 1: How come none of them reported that he was half
Speaker 1: Asian and we never really get an answer to that,
Speaker 1: Like none of them said, oh, he's a black man,
Speaker 1: but he.
Speaker 3: Does look half Asian.
Speaker 1: And they find a book on murder in his room
Speaker 1: and hunting human beings, and they find bloody jeens, so
Speaker 1: this is their guy.
Speaker 3: Basically.
Speaker 1: They go to the pharmacy where Darryl is the delivery guy,
Speaker 1: and the boss is like, I knew he was up
Speaker 1: to something. Women kept complaining he was asking them out.
Speaker 1: It's like, and yet you kept him employed. And so
Speaker 1: liv goes through the computer with a quickness. She's like
Speaker 1: blah bla blah bah bah blah blah blah blah bah,
Speaker 1: and she finds Helen and Lucy's mothers are both in
Speaker 1: the system with their home addresses, so that links him
Speaker 1: to the existing victims right away. They go out on
Speaker 1: his delivery route to try to find him. Benson clocks
Speaker 1: him across the street, but he makes them and he
Speaker 1: starts to run. She chases him, and uniformed officers stop
Speaker 1: Daryl and he has his hands up, but Live still
Speaker 1: catches up and slams his ass against the wall. And
Speaker 1: it's one of those like, uh oh, this case is
Speaker 1: really getting to her kind of moments, because that's like
Speaker 1: violence that she doesn't really need to be pertaking in.
Speaker 1: And then they find a water bottle on him and
Speaker 1: guess what's in it? Done Done Bleach. So this guy's
Speaker 1: got his bleach water bottle on him and he's ready
Speaker 1: to attack at any moment. I wanted to point out
Speaker 1: that the actor playing Darryl Gwan is Marcus Scott.
Speaker 3: Chong and he is the.
Speaker 1: Child of an African American father and a Chinese mother.
Speaker 1: But he was adopted by Tommy and Shelby Chong when
Speaker 1: he was a teen, when he was like sorry, like eleven.
Speaker 1: So Tommy Chong of Chichen Chong is this guy's adoptive father,
Speaker 1: and so I know totally, like I never realized that.
Speaker 3: So he began acting at nine.
Speaker 1: He's worked for a long time, and then he was
Speaker 1: in The Matrix as this character called Tank, and then
Speaker 1: he had this big problem with the Matrix where he
Speaker 1: wanted more money to be in the next Matrix movies
Speaker 1: and they didn't want to pay him, and he said
Speaker 1: he had a verbal agreement or whatever, and then basically
Speaker 1: they the Wachowski's Wakowski's who make those movies like rejected
Speaker 1: his demands and then he's not in those movies and
Speaker 1: it kind of ended his.
Speaker 3: Career in a little bit of a way.
Speaker 1: I mean, he hasn't been in a movie since twenty thirteen,
Speaker 1: and he hasn't done any TV since an episode of
Speaker 1: Burn Notice in twenty ten. So I think, I don't
Speaker 1: know what's going on. Maybe he's just like hanging out
Speaker 1: with his dad smoking weed. But interesting that I like
Speaker 1: he his biological father. It says was a sports reporter
Speaker 1: on his Wikipedia but I guess he was adopted by
Speaker 1: Tommy and Shelby Chong, so he is this exact ethnicity
Speaker 1: of the character.
Speaker 3: I just thought that was interesting.
Speaker 1: So now the top of Act four, Alex Cabot is
Speaker 1: walking in the courthouse halls and this lady lawyer slides
Speaker 1: up next to her and she's representing Darryl Gwan. And
Speaker 1: this attorney's name is Margo Nelson, played by Diane Baker,
Speaker 1: and I knew I recognized her from somewhere, and that
Speaker 1: is because she plays Senator Ruth Martin in Silence of
Speaker 1: the Lambs, Brooks Smith's mom, the one who he goes
Speaker 1: by the way Senata love you suit that.
Speaker 3: He's talking to her.
Speaker 1: So she's the one that's like, please help me find
Speaker 1: my daughter in Silence of the Lambs. And she's a
Speaker 1: classic actress who I guess has been in a ton
Speaker 1: of stuff, but she has not acted for a while.
Speaker 1: She's still alive, but I think maybe she's retired anyway.
Speaker 1: She's kind of a fancy lawyer, and so you know,
Speaker 1: Cabot's like, this is a little bit above your below
Speaker 1: your pay grade or whatever, and she's like, oh, I'm
Speaker 1: defending Darryl probo now and she's asking Alex to keep
Speaker 1: the death penalty off the table, and Alex is like, girl,
Speaker 1: his crimes were premeditated. He targeted his victims, like based
Speaker 1: on their gender, race, like ancestry, all these things that
Speaker 1: make it a hate crime. So that's in this escalation
Speaker 1: of a sentence right there, and she goes, he's not
Speaker 1: guilty of murder one, and Alex is like, how do
Speaker 1: you define guilt?
Speaker 3: And then Margo gives the Dictionary.
Speaker 1: Definition of guilt and then claims he's not reasoned by
Speaker 1: reason of mental disease or defect, and then she goes,
Speaker 1: my parents made me read the dictionary and walks away.
Speaker 3: And I was like, I bet you're a lot of fun.
Speaker 2: I think, like so cringe yef, like, I guess if
Speaker 2: you're young. But reading definitions from the dictionary to start
Speaker 2: a speech or anything is just it's bad.
Speaker 1: No, my siblings did a speech for my wedding and
Speaker 1: Colin started out going Webster's Dictionary defines sister as but
Speaker 1: it was a joke, like he stopped. Of course, it
Speaker 1: was a funny, little funny little number from Collie Call.
Speaker 3: It was just so bad. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, But I also totally probably did that in papers
Speaker 1: when I was like in sixth grade and thought it
Speaker 1: was very clever.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but as an adult it's bad. Yes, yes, don't
Speaker 3: do that.
Speaker 1: If you're about to do a best man speech, a
Speaker 1: speech at work something, don't start with a dictionary definition. Okay,
Speaker 1: unless it's a hilarious joke and you figured out a
Speaker 1: way to flip it on his head. So anyway, Alex
Speaker 1: is now outside on the courtroom steps talking to executive
Speaker 1: Ada stan Valani. He is a character who's in four
Speaker 1: episodes of season three only. He's played by Ron Leebman,
Speaker 1: who also passed away and was married to Jessica Walter,
Speaker 1: who's my absolute favorite from Arrested Development. They were like
Speaker 1: this super in love couple because I remember reading about
Speaker 1: them when she died, and they died within eighteen months
Speaker 1: of each other, so I feel like it was one
Speaker 1: of those things where they couldn't live without each other.
Speaker 1: And Margo wants to prove that Daryl inherited his violent tendencies,
Speaker 1: and Stan is like, well, what about the fry standard.
Speaker 1: It has to be generally accepted by the scientific community,
Speaker 1: and Cabot's like, yeah, but it is kind of generally
Speaker 1: accepted that violence and genetics are linked, and he goes, linked,
Speaker 1: not causative, and Cabot's like, I don't know if a
Speaker 1: jury will be able to distinguish between the two, and
Speaker 1: she's like and he's like, well, that's your job to
Speaker 1: make them see between the two. And she's like, well,
Speaker 1: I've got Huang giving him a psych exam right now,
Speaker 1: and he goes, listen, if Margo pulls this off, it's
Speaker 1: going to be Pandora's box. Everything can be blamed on
Speaker 1: Jean's No one will be responsible for their actions. So
Speaker 1: not a good precedence is set. So now we get
Speaker 1: to the interview with Daryl with between Huang and Darryl,
Speaker 1: which is a scene I always remember. It's like buried
Speaker 1: in my brain forever. And he's like, Wang goes, do
Speaker 1: you think you're crazy? And then he's like, well if
Speaker 1: I say that, do I get the death penalty or whatever?
Speaker 1: And then he realizes Swang is Chinese and he goes,
Speaker 1: you're Chinese, right, and he goes, I am, and he
Speaker 1: goes me too, and then he goes, but you're only half,
Speaker 1: aren't you And it's like ouch, but I think you
Speaker 1: know Huang knows the buttons to push, so then he
Speaker 1: calls Huang in Chinese. He calls him something in Chinese,
Speaker 1: and Howang goes, you think I'm a privileged and spoiled landowner.
Speaker 1: Isn't that what native Chinese people call American born Chinese people?
Speaker 1: But you're American born too, And he's like, yeah, Like
Speaker 1: I don't know. He just kind of handles that little
Speaker 1: diss and moves on, and then he's like, was it
Speaker 1: hard to grow up in Chinatown? And Darrel's like no,
Speaker 1: and he's like, because you speak the language really well,
Speaker 1: you know the customs probably better than I do, but
Speaker 1: in Chinatown you're still an outcast.
Speaker 3: He goes, it didn't bother me. And then he's like, well,
Speaker 3: what do you know about your dad?
Speaker 1: And he's like enough, he doesn't remember when he found
Speaker 1: out about the rape, but he said he was young
Speaker 1: and that his grandmother told him, and then he says
Speaker 1: the Chinese word for black devil, and his grandmother called
Speaker 1: him that. So Huang's like, well, how do you feel
Speaker 1: about your father? And he like leans into Huang with
Speaker 1: like a really creepy smile and he whispers, I'm nothing
Speaker 1: like him, and I always just remember that part being
Speaker 1: like h and then Huang's like, actually, bro, there's a
Speaker 1: lot of similarities. You hurt people, you rape them, like
Speaker 1: fatherlike son. And then Darryl freaks out throws a chair
Speaker 1: at the one way glass, which we've seen many times,
Speaker 1: and then Live is on the other side of the
Speaker 1: glass and she looks like very taken aback by this
Speaker 1: whole turn of.
Speaker 3: His, you know, into violence.
Speaker 1: So now we're in court and Margo is asking this
Speaker 1: genetic expert named doctor Coffee and about violence genes, and
Speaker 1: he's like, oh, is there a gene for violence? And
Speaker 1: he goes, there's no exact violence gene, but violent behavior
Speaker 1: can be linked to several abnormal genes. And they're like, well,
Speaker 1: you tested mister gwand does he suffer from these genetic abnormalities.
Speaker 1: He's like, yes, he does, and his father has the
Speaker 1: exact same ones. So they're like, well, so would you
Speaker 1: say he inherited these violent tendencies? Alex objects and says,
Speaker 1: with all your research, you cannot prove that. The judge agrees,
Speaker 1: And the judge is Harvey Adkin, who is Judge Alan
Speaker 1: ridden or also dead. A lot of people from this
Speaker 1: episode are dead, but a lot of people that are
Speaker 1: important to the SBU universe. This guy has done thirteen
Speaker 1: episodes as this judge, so we've seen him before. He's
Speaker 1: done a lot of good, big episodes we've covered. He says,
Speaker 1: let's keep it out of the realm of science fiction,
Speaker 1: Margo or whatever, and then he explains. This guy explains
Speaker 1: like when somebody has cystic fibrosis, if the parents are
Speaker 1: both carriers, the child gets that disease. And if a
Speaker 1: child inherited the genes that made him violent, he would
Speaker 1: also have no way to avoid it. And it's possible
Speaker 1: that Starne's son was born violent as a result of
Speaker 1: these genetic defects. And Cabot objects and says, how did
Speaker 1: we get from inherited genes to inherited behavior? And Margo goes,
Speaker 1: I'll speak slower and use smaller words so you can
Speaker 1: keep up with us, Like I thought you were trying
Speaker 1: to keep the death penalty off the table, bitch.
Speaker 3: You can't keep sassing Cabot like this.
Speaker 1: And so Cabot is like doctor Coffee has not proven
Speaker 1: inherited behavior.
Speaker 3: Are we just going to make up theories as we go?
Speaker 1: And Margo's like, no, let's just to you and assistant
Speaker 1: district attorney over a scientific expert. So these two are like,
Speaker 1: fully just bitch fighting in front of the whole jury,
Speaker 1: and the judge sustains Alex's objection and then Margo's like
Speaker 1: nothing further. And so then Alex gets up and expertly like,
Speaker 1: I just like love this next part.
Speaker 3: She really just like handles it.
Speaker 1: She's like, okay, so does everyone with this genetic abnormality
Speaker 1: become a rapist?
Speaker 3: And he's like no.
Speaker 1: She's like, okay, because with cystic vibrosis, which you brought up,
Speaker 1: if parents are carriers, you get it.
Speaker 3: That's it.
Speaker 1: If both parents are carriers, you get it. There's no
Speaker 1: avoiding it. That's not the case with your argument here.
Speaker 1: And he goes, well, a causative connection has yet to
Speaker 1: be established, and that's the whole fucking point. It has
Speaker 1: to be a causative connection. He also said there's other factors,
Speaker 1: like upbringing, and she's like, oh, interesting that you bring
Speaker 1: up upbringing. You've never mentioned that before. So she's like,
Speaker 1: so violence is a combination of many factors, right, and
Speaker 1: he says yes, And then she's like, so you actually
Speaker 1: don't know shit about this and can't speak on this
Speaker 1: topic at all, and then Margo Margo objects, and the
Speaker 1: judge goes counselor, and Alex goes withdrawn. But she basically
Speaker 1: the same shit that Margo just did. So I think
Speaker 1: Alex did a good job of pointing out that these
Speaker 1: are this is not like a legit argument. And then
Speaker 1: we cut to Margo's closing statement, She's like, genetics aside.
Speaker 1: Did Darryl Gwan choose to be the child of rape?
Speaker 1: Did he choose to be brought up in a community
Speaker 1: that hated him? Did he choose to have a genetic defect?
Speaker 1: Now that he's grown up and kind of turned into
Speaker 1: a monster, we just say, too bad. This boy was
Speaker 1: brought up in hell. His grandma called him the devil,
Speaker 1: and he was. He was engineered by nature and by
Speaker 1: nurture to be what he turned out to be. But
Speaker 1: it's not his fault. And then Cabot's like, it's her turn,
Speaker 1: and she's like, he had a hard life. That's no
Speaker 1: excuse for murder. In society, we have to take responsibility
Speaker 1: for our actions. What is it to be human? It's
Speaker 1: not just genes, it's not just childhood experiences. He was
Speaker 1: in complete control. He selected his victims, and he tried
Speaker 1: to get away with it, like he brought bleach. He
Speaker 1: knew ways to, you know, get away with it. He
Speaker 1: chose the course of his life. And now he has
Speaker 1: to take responsibility. And then we get a shot of
Speaker 1: Live looking very pensive in the gallery of the court,
Speaker 1: and then we cut too we don't get a verdict.
Speaker 1: Live Benson knocks on Huang's door to let him know
Speaker 1: Darrel's guilty on all charges, and Huang goes, this was
Speaker 1: a tough case for me.
Speaker 3: Seems like it was tough for you too.
Speaker 1: So now Live has to confess her personal life to
Speaker 1: Huang as well, saying she tells him she was the
Speaker 1: child of a rape and so for her or yeah,
Speaker 1: it was personal, And she's like, that's the biggest reason
Speaker 1: I became a cop and I joined us for you.
Speaker 1: I used to think it was because I wanted to
Speaker 1: do good and make a difference, but now I'm questioning it.
Speaker 1: Like in my job, I have to be aggressive, I
Speaker 1: have to be violent. I mean, let's think about how
Speaker 1: she slammed Daryl against a wall, even though he'd already
Speaker 1: basically been apprehended. So then Huang says, you think that
Speaker 1: makes you like Daryl, and she goes, I keep trying
Speaker 1: to convince myself that he had a choice. But if
Speaker 1: he had this violence inside of him, then did he
Speaker 1: have a choice? Does anyone? And she's tearing up and
Speaker 1: he goes, you don't hurt people, you protect them. Your
Speaker 1: proof that we do have a choice, and she goes,
Speaker 1: or maybe I'm just lucky, And then executive producer Dick
Speaker 1: Wolf Baby.
Speaker 3: Kind of a wild one, this one.
Speaker 1: I mean, I do like, I don't agree with what
Speaker 1: Darryl Gwand does, but I do feel horrible for a
Speaker 1: kid that grows up in a culture where no one
Speaker 1: accepts him and is literally called names and bullied his
Speaker 1: whole fucking life. He's going to turn into a monster,
Speaker 1: you know, Yeah, but not that you can get away
Speaker 1: with this crime.
Speaker 3: Jail bitch.
Speaker 1: Anyway, That's that a classic, classic, classic, And I'm looking
Speaker 1: forward to hearing about the crime because I don't think
Speaker 1: I know.
Speaker 2: Well, you know what, I actually always get this one
Speaker 2: and the foot one mixed step all the time.
Speaker 1: Yes, but they are different, I do too, but they
Speaker 1: are similar in my mind. At one point, when we
Speaker 1: were like planning air this long time ago, I thought
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, the half Asian, half black guy who cuts
Speaker 1: off women's feet, Like yeah, different, it's a different thing.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: The crime, you guys are it's infuriating. Stay tuned, okay,
Speaker 2: and we're back. And this crime happens in France. It's
Speaker 2: guy Georges and they've nicknamed him the Beast of the
Speaker 2: Bastille and Bastille is a neighborhood in Paris and that's
Speaker 2: where most of his crimes took place, so that's what
Speaker 2: he was called nicknamed when he was terrorizing Paris. So
Speaker 2: he was born in France in the sixties, and he's classic,
Speaker 2: you know, trouble kid in the social care system, and
Speaker 2: he's a sicko, a fucking sicko. He assaulted thirteen women before,
Speaker 2: even before he went on to this murder spree where
Speaker 2: he was eventually convicted of murdering seven women between nineteen
Speaker 2: ninety one and nineteen ninety seven. He was raped his victims,
Speaker 2: he tortured them and murdered them.
Speaker 3: Not good, okay.
Speaker 2: And this guy, like in the episode, he was half black,
Speaker 2: so he was like an Afro European is official description.
Speaker 2: And this caused a lot of problems for him in
Speaker 2: his life. He was a well built guy. This was
Speaker 2: his official description, is that he is a well built guy,
Speaker 2: physically vigorous dude who is tidy, clean, shy, an IQ
Speaker 2: of one oh one, which I don't know what that means,
Speaker 2: and then verbal skills above average.
Speaker 3: So that's the official description. Yeah, I don't actually know
Speaker 3: what a high IQ is.
Speaker 1: I guess because although over one forty is a genius,
Speaker 1: one twenty to one forty is superior intelligence, but ninety
Speaker 1: to one oh nine it says normal or average. So
Speaker 1: I think basically they're just trying to tell you that
Speaker 1: he's not like dull.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, but you know, chatty Kathy. So he was
Speaker 2: really popular in the Paris squatting scene.
Speaker 3: Cool.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was known as like, uh a swath, cool
Speaker 2: guy with all the squatters, and he would squash beefs
Speaker 2: and was just like a cool dude. But everyone was
Speaker 2: like shocked and they're like, we would never have suspected
Speaker 2: this double life. And it's like, squatters don't have a
Speaker 2: double life. What the hell are you talking about? Like,
Speaker 2: even if it's a choice, like you don't end up
Speaker 2: squatting without a double life. I'm sorry they.
Speaker 1: Anybody has a double life. I have like three friends
Speaker 1: whose dad had secret families. I mean, you just like
Speaker 1: can't say who would have a double life, you know,
Speaker 1: like anybody I know.
Speaker 2: I also really love the new memes circulating that's like
Speaker 2: women moms would never be able to have a double
Speaker 2: life or a second family.
Speaker 3: Yes, we're so fucking busy.
Speaker 1: Can you imagine I'll be back in a couple hours,
Speaker 1: just gonna go be with my second family.
Speaker 3: Never never, wait, did I tell you?
Speaker 2: You know how I do crowd work with dads and so,
Speaker 2: And I was like asking this dad, I'm like, what's
Speaker 2: the longest time you spent alone with your child? And
Speaker 2: he said while she's awake, and so obviously that's not good.
Speaker 2: And then and then the answer came out five hours,
Speaker 2: and you know that wasn't good. The reactions were mixed
Speaker 2: in the crowd, the place got tense, and then the
Speaker 2: dad finally went whatever, I never said. I was a
Speaker 2: good dad. And then I heard later that the couple
Speaker 2: was fighting, that he was rubbing the like the wife's
Speaker 2: back and she wasn't having it, and that it caused
Speaker 2: a real big issue with Oh, the couple, it's not
Speaker 2: my problem, but I guess they were drinking tall boys.
Speaker 3: I don't know what to tell you, but yeah.
Speaker 2: Maybe you should have got Maybe you should have stayed
Speaker 2: home with the baby that night. Maybe this was the
Speaker 2: show for you. Maybe this wasn't the show for you, sir.
Speaker 1: No, I can say my husband stayed home for eight
Speaker 1: days with our kids by himself, seven days, I mean,
Speaker 1: with some child wildcare involved as well.
Speaker 2: But the fact that it's even a question to be
Speaker 2: asked is an issue to me. Yeah, I think that's
Speaker 2: the point. But you know whatever, the rubbing of the
Speaker 2: back was funny.
Speaker 1: He was probably proud of himself when he said five
Speaker 1: hours too. He's probably like five hours, like the right,
Speaker 1: the right amount of time, the time that most dads spend.
Speaker 3: But I just love that on SVU.
Speaker 2: If a mom just has a joint, it's like, you know,
Speaker 2: we need to burn her in the steak, right, Like that's.
Speaker 1: I played charades. I played charades and took two hits
Speaker 1: of weed. Get CPS in here and get her kids
Speaker 1: away from her.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So on all accounts back to guys, George, popular Squatter,
Speaker 2: average IQ and uh and all accounts a psychopath who
Speaker 2: stabbed women with butcher knives, and he was a loner,
Speaker 2: and he would prowl through Paris at night and he
Speaker 2: would pick women out of a crowd who seemed confident,
Speaker 2: had energy, and he would feed on their energy. And
Speaker 2: he would take these powerful, fun women and he would
Speaker 2: make them submit to his power.
Speaker 3: And that's what he got off, got off on.
Speaker 2: Four psychiatrists studied him after he went into custody, and
Speaker 2: taking him into custody took decades.
Speaker 3: You guys are.
Speaker 2: Going to be so pissed hearing the journey of this
Speaker 2: guy in his crimes. Get put buckle up. Buckle up,
Speaker 2: whether you're in a car or not, buckle up. So
Speaker 2: one of the psycho psychiatrists, doctor Henry grin Span, it's
Speaker 2: green Span, but French so have fun.
Speaker 3: No, I don't know, maybe he's from a different criticy.
Speaker 1: It's so funny to me that this guy's name is
Speaker 1: Onnri and then his last name is grin Span. I
Speaker 1: mean there's no way to say that in French. So
Speaker 1: like glass Band, like Hanri, grin.
Speaker 3: Span like it is.
Speaker 2: It is gonna be like horrific crimes. You guys are
Speaker 2: gonna be angry. And then I think you will giggle
Speaker 2: a little bit with me trying to pronounce all these
Speaker 2: people's names, and I'll try to be respectful as possible,
Speaker 2: because you know, the victims suffered. But yes, so what
Speaker 2: what Henry uh didn't even do that accident? Okay, so
Speaker 2: what Henry said was end quote. What was unbearable for
Speaker 2: him was the other person's successful life, which reflected his
Speaker 2: own feelings of frustration and failure. The psychiatrists became obsessed
Speaker 2: with him, like little fanboys instead of disgust, which also
Speaker 2: like fully pisses me off, Like they became fascinated by
Speaker 2: this man who hid his real nature.
Speaker 3: And it's like we all fucking do it.
Speaker 2: Like I'm just so sick of these people that are like, ooh,
Speaker 2: this double life.
Speaker 3: We couldn't believe it.
Speaker 2: And it's like, yeah, you know, most people just binge
Speaker 2: eat in the dark, you know what I mean? Like
Speaker 2: I don't like, don't you don't have to stab someone
Speaker 2: to death because you're sad, Like I just fucking hate this. Well.
Speaker 1: I think that they look at it like people sometimes
Speaker 1: look at it like it's some kind of spy movie
Speaker 1: and they're like, how cool that they were able to
Speaker 1: pull this off, And it's like, no, you were like
Speaker 1: murdering people in your free time, that's what you were doing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Or it's like the lying and manipulating. It's like, I
Speaker 1: guess we're all capable of it and we choose not to.
Speaker 1: It's not like some impressive diabolical thing, like oh fuck,
Speaker 1: because we've been talking a lot about this because of
Speaker 1: scandabal and like vander Pomp and like yet.
Speaker 2: You're not, it's sick. You're just your scum, your fucking scum.
Speaker 2: And of course this man had girlfriends the whole time,
Speaker 2: of course, and one of his girlfriends, Sandrine, recalled that
Speaker 2: he made love to her on average eight times a day, okay,
Speaker 2: Larsa and constantly talked about starting a family in the
Speaker 2: squatting area. So how did this all happen? He was
Speaker 2: abandoned by his mother when he was six, so not good,
Speaker 2: and his father's identity was concealed from him by this
Speaker 2: illegal maneuver, which the psychiatrists call a genealogical death, so
Speaker 2: like not knowing your pastor parents or anything. They call
Speaker 2: it a genealogical death, which I guess you know is
Speaker 2: hard for people, not not trivializing it. But so his
Speaker 2: mother abandoned him to state custody because she wanted to
Speaker 2: marry a US service man and leave to California, where
Speaker 2: she still lives to this day. And she took her
Speaker 2: other son with her, Stefan, and he was three years
Speaker 2: older than his brother and conceived by another American. She
Speaker 2: was really hot for Americans. The difference between the two
Speaker 2: boys is Stefan is white and Guy is black, and
Speaker 2: so both were fathered by military dudes.
Speaker 3: She just like loves military vibes.
Speaker 2: So Stefan's dad was a white US serviceman and Guy's
Speaker 2: father was a US military cook stationed at a NATO base,
Speaker 2: And so her family was down to take Stefan, but
Speaker 2: refused Guy because he was black.
Speaker 3: So very closely tied to the episode.
Speaker 2: And even during the six years she had Guy, he
Speaker 2: bounced from Foster, her homes and his mother's house and her.
Speaker 2: The mom's house was in a super stuffy provincial town.
Speaker 2: And I always think of where a belle from Beauty
Speaker 2: and the Beast lived, so very judgmental.
Speaker 1: There must be more than this provincial life. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 2: There's Baker's, there's a lot of eggs, there's a book shop.
Speaker 2: This is this is what I'm imagining there's a beast
Speaker 2: who lives in a mansion with a bunch of dancing cutlery.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like that. It's that, Yeahah.
Speaker 2: And the town there was an intolerable social stigma attached
Speaker 2: to mixed race birth, and so he did not have
Speaker 2: a good upbringing at all. So it was like he
Speaker 2: was either in this like horrible town where the mom's
Speaker 2: family hated him, the town hated him, or he was
Speaker 2: in like bouncing around to foster homes. And then when
Speaker 2: he was finally given up as a ward of the state,
Speaker 2: a condition of the abandonment was the the they issued
Speaker 2: a new birth certificate with false information to prevent him
Speaker 2: from ever knowing his origins. And that's what I said
Speaker 2: earlier about this genealogical death type thing. This practice was
Speaker 2: eventually banned in nineteen ninety six since it's a deprivation
Speaker 2: of basic rites. His surrogate mother was Gene Morin, and
Speaker 2: she was Catholic as hell. So she had twelve foster
Speaker 2: children and seven of her own.
Speaker 3: Damn. Yeah, so classic Catholic.
Speaker 2: And he started stealing from his family, you know, classic
Speaker 2: kind of killer vibes, got a knife and started to
Speaker 2: hunt and kill animals very early, and then at sixteen
Speaker 2: he attacked two of his foster sisters. He attempted to
Speaker 2: strangle his adoptive sisters Rosalin and Christian in the seventies
Speaker 2: and because of these attacks, he was placed into a
Speaker 2: state orphanage for adolescence at seventeen. In nineteen seventy nine
Speaker 2: was his first non familial assault, the attempted strangulation of
Speaker 2: a woman, Pascal Sea, but thank god, she was able
Speaker 2: to escape and he was arrested by police and then
Speaker 2: released a week later. Jesus one week okay, So that
Speaker 2: was great because then he was able to commit two
Speaker 2: more attacks. So in May nineteen eighty he did two
Speaker 2: separate attacks on women, Joscelyn S and Rosalind C. They
Speaker 2: were both attacked and Roslin was stabbed in the fucking face.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, both of them survived, Thank god. He
Speaker 2: was arrested and he served a year and then released.
Speaker 2: So he ran around Paris committing petty crimes. And then
Speaker 2: finally in nineteen eighty one, he committed his first rape
Speaker 2: and with stabbings. It was his neighbor Natalie C. And
Speaker 2: he left her for dead, but again, thank god, she survived.
Speaker 2: And then in nineteen eighty two, he attacked another victim
Speaker 2: who escaped, Violet K and she was raped, stabbed, and
Speaker 2: strangled but lived, thank goodness.
Speaker 3: He was then only sentenced to eighteen months in prison.
Speaker 1: Wait, in what world is that's attempted murder twice and rape?
Speaker 3: That's fucked up? Paris what's going on?
Speaker 2: Like it's you know, because we think America is so
Speaker 2: fucked and it is, but it's everywhere. Men are everywhere,
Speaker 2: the justice systems, it's everywhere. Like what the fuck are
Speaker 2: we talking about? And obviously I don't love living in
Speaker 2: like a prison state that's like so racist and fucked.
Speaker 3: But it's like.
Speaker 1: What, yeah, but it's like which one were we talking about?
Speaker 1: I mean, I I'll never remember it because like but
Speaker 1: it was like a guy who.
Speaker 3: The Scotland one. It was the London Scotland.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like he did one thing and then they put
Speaker 1: him in for like a year, and then another one
Speaker 1: and then it's like it's like this is escalation of behavior.
Speaker 3: It's truly insane.
Speaker 2: Eighteen months for rape, strangulation, stabbing, nabbing women for deaths,
Speaker 2: Like what the fuck?
Speaker 3: Lock this fucker up?
Speaker 2: He doesn't want to stop and right when he's released,
Speaker 2: he goes back. So February nineteen eighty four, this motherfucker
Speaker 2: attacks another Pascal, so Pascal in he rapes this woman,
Speaker 2: stabs her, she survives, alerts police, and finally they put
Speaker 2: him away for ten years. So but for me, it's
Speaker 2: like he's proven he doesn't want to stop, so like
Speaker 2: why ten years is still not even enough in my eyes, Like, yeah,
Speaker 2: it doesn't make sense to me, so so whatever, But
Speaker 2: he's such a good boy in jail. By the end
Speaker 2: of his sentence, they allow him for day releases, so
Speaker 2: I guess in France you're allowed to like.
Speaker 1: Go out and hang out for the day and then
Speaker 1: go back to jail. Yeah, give me a break.
Speaker 2: But so he's allowed to do field trips and then
Speaker 2: one time he just doesn't come back.
Speaker 3: Why would he come back?
Speaker 2: So January twenty fourth, that night he didn't return to prison.
Speaker 2: He just went to Paris committed a murder. He killed
Speaker 2: a nineteen year old student, Pascal Escrafell. God, every woman
Speaker 2: in Parison's time is named Pascal. Then went back to
Speaker 2: prison a week later and was like, what's up, guys,
Speaker 2: And that's it, and they released him April fourth, nineteen
Speaker 2: ninety two.
Speaker 3: He doesn't get tried or added sentencing on for the
Speaker 3: I don't know if he was called. He wasn't called.
Speaker 2: He just like murdered someone and went back and like,
Speaker 2: I don't think they tied it to him, nothing, like,
Speaker 2: oh my god, he just.
Speaker 1: He didn't even do ten years. Because you said they
Speaker 1: got him in eighty four. He was out in ninety two.
Speaker 1: That's not even ten Yeah.
Speaker 2: Fuck, okay, just committed a murder, didn't go back to
Speaker 2: jail on his release, and that's that. Then he assaulted
Speaker 2: and attacked more people. A woman named eleanor, a woman
Speaker 2: named Annie, Elizabeth, Melanie, Valerie, all attacked and then he
Speaker 2: went on and murdered for six more years. He took
Speaker 2: the lives of Catherine Rocher twenty seven years old, Elsa
Speaker 2: Bennati twenty two, Agnes I think that's Nike, Agnes Nicamp
Speaker 2: thirty two, Helene Franking twenty seven, Megali Serati nineteen and
Speaker 2: Estelle Magged twenty five. And I apologize if I said
Speaker 2: any of those names wrong. May all of these women
Speaker 2: rest in peace. I am so sorry for the horrific
Speaker 2: way that you had to die at the hands of
Speaker 2: these this deranged lunatic and the horrific way that the
Speaker 2: fucking France dealt with this man.
Speaker 1: How are they not just like after the first body
Speaker 1: pops up, revisiting him like I'm so con like six
Speaker 1: years of just murdering.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Wow.
Speaker 2: Five of the women were killed in their Paris apartments,
Speaker 2: four of them around midnight. Two of the other women
Speaker 2: were found raped with their throat throats cut in underground
Speaker 2: car parks. Now, during the murder spree, he also found
Speaker 2: time to like assault women in the Bastille area for
Speaker 2: fun as well. So March twenty seventh, nineteen ninety eight,
Speaker 2: is finally arrested in montmart and it took forever to
Speaker 2: get him because, according to the Guardian, it was slappy
Speaker 2: police work because rival police squads like weren't weren't working together.
Speaker 2: So like some were working on the murders in the flats,
Speaker 2: you know, like in the apartments, and then like some
Speaker 2: were working on the underground car parks, and they failed
Speaker 2: to see the link between the two series of killings,
Speaker 2: despite several striking similarities obviously between all of these killings,
Speaker 2: and so and also the police were just very sure
Speaker 2: that serial killers were a white thing, and so they
Speaker 2: were just stubborn and they refused to believe like a
Speaker 2: black person could do it.
Speaker 3: So they just refused.
Speaker 2: To investigate him as a serial killer. And so that
Speaker 2: obviously caused time, like cost time and lives. One of
Speaker 2: the victims, Helene, the police didn't even question any of
Speaker 2: the neighbors until twenty three months after she was killed.
Speaker 3: I'm sure their memories were sho his tacks two years later, Jesus.
Speaker 2: And then one of his surviving victims, like they first
Speaker 2: sketch artists to do a portrait, it wasn't drawn until
Speaker 2: twenty eight months after the attack. Fucking crazy and so
Speaker 2: and then there were just like tons of other accurate
Speaker 2: descriptions from survivors and witnesses that were straight up ignored.
Speaker 2: And also let's not forget that they had him under
Speaker 2: arrest multiple times before this, linking him to all these
Speaker 2: crimes and then just kept letting him go whatever. So
Speaker 2: after his arrest, he did confess to police. Following his arrest,
Speaker 2: and there was DNA found at four of the crime scenes.
Speaker 2: For his trial, he was found legally sane and you know,
Speaker 2: fit to stand trial, but he was declared a narcissistic psychopath,
Speaker 2: which makes sense and proven because even though he confessed
Speaker 2: and there was DNA, he still pled not guilty to
Speaker 2: the charges very sand of all, and the psychiatrists decided
Speaker 2: that he saw his victims not as people, only as
Speaker 2: objects to support hisse attempts to appropriate their inner qualities. Eventually,
Speaker 2: he did just admit guilt and was sentenced to life
Speaker 2: on April fifth, two thousand and one, without the possibility
Speaker 2: of parole for twenty two years.
Speaker 3: But like, why even the possibility of parole.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is a person that literally can't stop killing
Speaker 1: and doesn't see people as people. And it took twenty
Speaker 1: four years for him to get life of like him
Speaker 1: committing crimes.
Speaker 3: It's insane wild. He is alive today.
Speaker 2: He is in jail, he's at the Maison Centrell and
Speaker 2: his time or whatever. He says, he feels at home
Speaker 2: in prison and he really thrives there and it is
Speaker 2: where he belongs. So have fun in there, you fucker.
Speaker 2: He is too dangerous to be on the outside. And
Speaker 2: he said that himself. He knows he belongs in prison,
Speaker 2: and he is a true, true narcissist. He does not
Speaker 2: believe it's his fault. He told one of the psychiatrists.
Speaker 2: I don't see why I should be the only one
Speaker 2: to pay for this, And he is referring to the
Speaker 2: lax way the French prison system let him out even
Speaker 2: though they diagnosed him as extremely dangerous nearly twenty years ago,
Speaker 2: and after they let him go onto the streets is
Speaker 2: without any treatment, money, or care.
Speaker 3: So I'm with him there like.
Speaker 2: They legitterate, like, wow, this extremely dangerous psychopath, get back
Speaker 2: out there.
Speaker 3: Oh day release, have fun. Yeah.
Speaker 2: He also, of course feels resentment for his birthright and
Speaker 2: how it was stolen from him, and that officials obstructed
Speaker 2: his attempts to find his father, and so that's why
Speaker 2: he stabbed and murdered and raped young women.
Speaker 3: Cool, really unique.
Speaker 2: And then also I think he kind of lost it
Speaker 2: because then he started to claim that he was framed
Speaker 2: by the French secret service because he supposedly stole an
Speaker 2: official limousine carrying confidential documents. Okay, that's a final thing.
Speaker 2: Netflix does have a documentary. I did not watch it.
Speaker 2: I turned it on and then I went, you know what,
Speaker 2: I don't want to watch it, not today, not today. Well,
Speaker 2: if anyone wants to, yes, if anyone wants to, and
Speaker 2: you're in the headspace, which I was not in. It
Speaker 2: is called The Woman, The Women and the Murderer. So
Speaker 2: if you would like to watch The Women and the Murderer,
Speaker 2: it is on Netflix and it is about the Beast
Speaker 2: of best Steel and you can learn more about him.
Speaker 3: I never heard about this case. Wow. Interesting, It's really.
Speaker 2: Not that much to read about him, Like I couldn't
Speaker 2: find that many sources, but I'm sure there's tons in French.
Speaker 2: But yeah, fuck police a cab forever everywhere, all the time, like.
Speaker 3: Go for it.
Speaker 1: Also, I mean, I like to think that nowadays this
Speaker 1: wouldn't happen, but it probably would. I mean, like you know,
Speaker 1: like who the Scotland one that we were to, or
Speaker 1: the Scotland yard or what was the ripper and he
Speaker 1: was doing it like yeah, they just he was right there,
Speaker 1: like and they he just slipped through their fingers a
Speaker 1: million times and it's like, I don't know, it doesn't
Speaker 1: feel like it's very very different from the US to
Speaker 1: the UK, to bears brands you know all over the
Speaker 1: place of the Coulture.
Speaker 2: No, it's probably like a personality trait that you want
Speaker 2: to be a cop that probably makes you the worst too.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And also I feel like a lot of times, especially
Speaker 1: when there's like somebody that's now the beast of best
Speaker 1: deal and it becomes like a myth, and then they
Speaker 1: all want to get the credit. So like the warring different,
Speaker 1: Like cops are like all trying to win the win
Speaker 1: the big prize at the end instead of working together
Speaker 1: and just fucking finding the guy, you.
Speaker 2: Know, while like young women are getting fucking murdered.
Speaker 3: Yeah, what a scary that must have been.
Speaker 1: Like, I mean, but that's like a round sun of
Speaker 1: sam time. Right, It's like there's just no cool city
Speaker 1: in the world to live in where women are not
Speaker 1: just getting murdered left and right.
Speaker 3: It's just like, if you're stabbing in what do you
Speaker 3: mean a year?
Speaker 2: What do you mean a week? Like, what do you
Speaker 2: mean ten years? Put him out? Lock him up, lock
Speaker 2: him up. What I don't understand. I don't understand releasing
Speaker 2: people like that that are stabbing women in the face
Speaker 2: with butcher knives, like.
Speaker 3: And strange women. Understand strange women.
Speaker 1: It's not like these are crimes of passion or something,
Speaker 1: which I also don't like. I'm not like giving those
Speaker 1: a pass, but I'm just saying he's out there targeting,
Speaker 1: you know, fucked up. All right, Well, thanks for doing
Speaker 1: all that research, and we have a great guest. We
Speaker 1: had a We're really excited for you guys to hear
Speaker 1: this interview, so stay right where you.
Speaker 3: Are, guys.
Speaker 1: Our guest today is an actor who has worked steadily
Speaker 1: for the last twenty years. He's had recent roles in Clause,
Speaker 1: one of my faves, and the DCTV series Stargirl, and
Speaker 1: he was also in the live action version of Mulan NBD.
Speaker 1: And you know him also from another episode of SVU
Speaker 1: called Counselor It's Chinatown, but on today's episode you know
Speaker 1: him as the slippery Johnny Chen. Guys, enjoy our convo
Speaker 1: with the very talented Nelson Lee Nelson welcome, Thank.
Speaker 4: You so much. No, no, not at all. It is
Speaker 4: so much fun. It's funny because I had to actually
Speaker 4: go back and watch it because I was like, it's
Speaker 4: been forever. You're a baby, I am an actual baby.
Speaker 2: If your gelled up, spiky hair and like god, silver
Speaker 2: bead necklace.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that thing that choker I had on was like amazing.
Speaker 4: I wish it was mine, but it was well.
Speaker 2: Because it's also so hard sometimes to get people from
Speaker 2: those older episodes and like to remember stuff.
Speaker 3: So thanks for watching it too.
Speaker 4: Of course, of course, no, I was kind of.
Speaker 1: Interested, and we just saw you so recently in the
Speaker 1: Counselor It's Chinatown episode, so I was like, that's yeah
Speaker 1: in this episode.
Speaker 3: And I was like, oh my god, is that him?
Speaker 3: Because you just look so young. You're like a little baby.
Speaker 4: I know. Yeah, I graduated to a detective. That's when
Speaker 4: you know you're older.
Speaker 1: You stopped being in a gang, you went to the
Speaker 1: police academy.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I went clean Stabler, like, they put me on
Speaker 4: the right track. You're good. Huge.
Speaker 2: But the Dick Wolf Universe were your like first official jobs, yeah,
Speaker 2: as an actor. Yeah. You know.
Speaker 4: It's funny because I always think and I can't remember,
Speaker 4: but I almost think that OZ was my first job.
Speaker 4: But I think, but it's it's always listed as the
Speaker 4: first before, but I honestly cannot remember. But they came
Speaker 4: at the same kind of time. And the only reason
Speaker 4: I think it was OZ was first because I remember
Speaker 4: being on Law and Order, like, hey, I just saw you.
Speaker 4: Because he was also, of course Chris Maloney also on OZ.
Speaker 4: I mean that was when back in the day when
Speaker 4: everyone in New York was like in everything.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we hear he's like a serious, maybe prickly guy.
Speaker 3: Did he remember you?
Speaker 4: Was he like, oh, yay, Actually, it's funny he did.
Speaker 4: And he was super kind and you're super kind. He
Speaker 4: was always very and you know, because I was literally
Speaker 4: straight out of school. And there's a scene right and
Speaker 4: it's funny because I watched inhered As, I'm like, yee,
Speaker 4: but it's you know, it's funny. But I remember having
Speaker 4: like a little bit of problem. I remember he was
Speaker 4: just like, hey, it's just after lunch, don't worry about it.
Speaker 4: And he was like super cool, and it was it
Speaker 4: totally relaxed me. Oh that's nice, yeah, very nice and
Speaker 4: unnecessary for him to do, but he did.
Speaker 3: What did you do? You remember what you were doing?
Speaker 4: I think I'm just really nervous, you know, it's like
Speaker 4: my you know, it's honestly, I just I don't think
Speaker 4: I even realized that. I remember when I was working
Speaker 4: on OZ, I had no concept of editing, and so
Speaker 4: I was constantly like on because I didn't know when
Speaker 4: I wasn't on camera that I wasn't being filmed, and
Speaker 4: so I was just like and everyone's coming like you're
Speaker 4: doing such a good job. Yeah, thank you. And I
Speaker 4: just didn't have any clue about editing or angles anything.
Speaker 4: So even by that point, I was still nervous about,
Speaker 4: you know, when action was called and when to do stuff.
Speaker 4: So yeah, it was it was nice from the comb nerves.
Speaker 3: You were holding your own. I mean, you were being
Speaker 3: interrogated by like Christopher Maloney.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I know, they're badasses, and that's funny when I
Speaker 4: was watching, like, oh, it's good. I mean for a kid,
Speaker 4: it's not bad.
Speaker 3: Did you go to school for theater? Were you a theater?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 4: I did. I went to Academy of Dramatic Arts in
Speaker 4: New York and yeah, so when I popped out, it
Speaker 4: was I was lucky. I was one of the lucky ones.
Speaker 4: I kind of went right to work. So yeah, yeah,
Speaker 4: you know, and it just doesn't happen these days. And
Speaker 4: you know, I was like, you know, I was single
Speaker 4: card build and guest stars, like I don't even know
Speaker 4: what those things meant back then, but I was like cool,
Speaker 4: you just thought that that's how it always was. But yeah, you.
Speaker 3: Were like also like fuck yeah, free snacks.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, oh my god. I was like because what
Speaker 4: At first, you're like that's for someone else, Like, well
Speaker 4: I could have and you're like, oh, have one. You
Speaker 4: realize you can have all of it.
Speaker 2: Did you tell your hair like that in your personal
Speaker 2: life or was that very much character?
Speaker 4: Like oh my god, yeah, like was my head shot
Speaker 4: Like that's basically like me and a headshot, like I
Speaker 4: wish I had one. Yeah, but it's literally like yeah, no,
Speaker 4: that was My hair was like dragon ball z. It
Speaker 4: was like very hair and makeup.
Speaker 3: I don't even do anything.
Speaker 4: Just yeah I And they're like you're good, Yeah, you're good.
Speaker 2: Wow, And it was was it intense to shoot with
Speaker 2: her co star who was like in that metal thing
Speaker 2: and her jaws shutting stuff.
Speaker 4: Well, the hard thing is with that you can't really
Speaker 4: talk to them, so you're like, you're doing great.
Speaker 1: Yeah that scene where she just was going, I know,
Speaker 1: I know, just talking, I know, just talking over So
Speaker 1: do you remember any like other like do you remember
Speaker 1: any fun little tidbits from like being on set from
Speaker 1: that first episode when you did Inheritance?
Speaker 4: I mean, you know, it's funny. It's like there's a
Speaker 4: scene and I forgot, like in my memory, I only
Speaker 4: had like that one scene with my sister.
Speaker 3: No, but then they all win and they slam you
Speaker 3: down interrogation.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and that's and that's the best part because I
Speaker 4: forgot about that because I remember I was, you know,
Speaker 4: being I was handcuffed from behind and I kept we
Speaker 4: kept doing this take with this this extra is pushing
Speaker 4: me into the cop car, right and you're supposed to
Speaker 4: be really hard, and I have no way to stop myself.
Speaker 4: And I'm letting him because I'm like, okay, game on,
Speaker 4: this is this is acting, and we're going to do this.
Speaker 4: And I was kind of getting injured and Iced Tea again,
Speaker 4: nicest guy, and you know, it's funny. I worked with
Speaker 4: him recently again, but he's kind of like, hey, take
Speaker 4: it easy, like he told the game in and like
Speaker 4: told the guys, oh, I'm sorry you guys, like, I mean, yeah,
Speaker 4: you can go a little lighter.
Speaker 2: Maybe.
Speaker 4: I was like, maybe maybe let me lead you. I
Speaker 4: was like, I'll pretend to be thrown. But it was
Speaker 4: like because I was full on getting just like slammed
Speaker 4: take after take, and I was like, this is acting.
Speaker 4: I could take it.
Speaker 3: But yeah, no for Iced Tea getting in there.
Speaker 4: Iced Tea is the nicest, nicest dude, Like even even
Speaker 4: now twenty three seasons later, he was exactly like the
Speaker 4: same chill dude.
Speaker 3: Well, so when you came back, did like, did people
Speaker 3: remember you know what?
Speaker 4: I don't think so. And I never was going to
Speaker 4: be like, hey remember me twenty three seasons ago? How
Speaker 4: dare you forget me? Yeah? No, you know, I was
Speaker 4: tempted to. And also I think I was there for
Speaker 4: their like twentieth Yeah. I believe it was like their
Speaker 4: twentieth season like celebration, so that I was literally on
Speaker 4: we were doing a scene all of us. It was
Speaker 4: like me and Marishka and everyone basically, and we're doing
Speaker 4: anything about what we were going to do, and they're
Speaker 4: all talking about the party. Later I was like, sound's fun.
Speaker 4: But I didn't you invite it? But it's okay. I'm
Speaker 4: like that would be great. What time is it? I
Speaker 4: was like, I'm like, so free tonight. But no, they
Speaker 4: did invite me.
Speaker 3: We covered that episode.
Speaker 4: We had Margaret Show on for Oh yes, she was
Speaker 4: so she talked about I mean, look, the great thing
Speaker 4: about his show, it's covered some horrific things. But luckily
Speaker 4: I think that kind of goes the other way with
Speaker 4: the people you have fantastic actors and people, and and
Speaker 4: she was one of them. She was so nice, and
Speaker 4: you know, I was kind of like, oh, my god's
Speaker 4: market show. Yeah, you know that table raid was pretty intimidating. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we couldn't believe when we got her on the podcast.
Speaker 1: We love her so much.
Speaker 2: Well, it was even wilder because we were really new
Speaker 2: at the time and she contacted us.
Speaker 3: It was like, wow, she knew or like our boss.
Speaker 3: I don't know. She was like I listened, get me
Speaker 3: on it, and.
Speaker 2: So it was an extra special, exciting, that's so cool
Speaker 2: moment for us.
Speaker 4: That's amazing.
Speaker 2: But she called Peter Scanavino a a Scandinavian prince.
Speaker 3: Is that how you would describe him or what?
Speaker 4: You know, what you used? I absolutely wouldn't. Here's a
Speaker 4: little funny tidbit about Peter. I went to school with Peter,
Speaker 4: and I also bartended with people. So it's so it's
Speaker 4: it's so funny because and I'll be honest, I kind
Speaker 4: of forgot and I got to the table read and
Speaker 4: Peter's like, hey, no, So it was like hey, and
Speaker 4: I was like, oh my god, yes, I was like
Speaker 4: because it would literally took my mom because you know,
Speaker 4: he looks a little different, and you know he's got
Speaker 4: his he's coming straight from setting, so he's got his
Speaker 4: like nice suit on, and so I was like, hey,
Speaker 4: nice meat. She's like, no, that was it's me the
Speaker 4: Academy b Bar. I was like, oh my god.
Speaker 3: I was like, yes, wait where did you guys bartend.
Speaker 4: Together at the b Bar on Bowery in therapy?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 3: I went there.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I bet you did. Everyone did. I worked there
Speaker 4: for years, for too many years.
Speaker 3: What are the drinks you make?
Speaker 4: I mean that that was luckily for me back in
Speaker 4: the day when mixology was not a thing, and I
Speaker 4: was taught by very by a very mean scanning him
Speaker 4: funny enough Swedish bartender. She taught me just like anyone
Speaker 4: asked Rand and he's like, no, next, I can give
Speaker 4: you a shot. No, get out of here next. So
Speaker 4: that's that was my style of New York bartending. So
Speaker 4: anything with a stir I did not do. So I
Speaker 4: escaped you just like, wow, shot, I made cosmos. I
Speaker 4: made Cosmos was the most extravagant because you had to
Speaker 4: in New York at that time, right, And Apple teenies,
Speaker 4: Apple teenies, and yeah.
Speaker 3: I remember Apple teeny time I made a good apple.
Speaker 4: Teen don't don't shiver. I actually used to make some
Speaker 4: for myself back behind the bar.
Speaker 3: You can only go one. It's so much sugar.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's pretty it's pretty sweet.
Speaker 2: I'm just shivering because freshman year I drank too much
Speaker 2: apple pucker and had a big incident.
Speaker 3: So I just I just with that flavor profile.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that'll do it. But yes, back to back to
Speaker 4: Peter being a prince. He is indeed a prince. He
Speaker 4: is such a nice guy. I am so happy that he,
Speaker 4: you know, was on that show and has been such
Speaker 4: an integral part of it. So yeah, I can't.
Speaker 2: I just am still excited for you guys bartending together.
Speaker 3: You guys should I had a script?
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like, was it like cocktail? Were you guys throwing
Speaker 1: each other bottles and stuff?
Speaker 4: It was not nearly that exciting. It was us looking
Speaker 4: angry and sad behind the bar, wearing a Guia era
Speaker 4: shirt because we all were forced to wear these shirts,
Speaker 4: and you know, just like sweating outside because they had
Speaker 4: the outdoor patio and it'd just be like, you know,
Speaker 4: New York summers.
Speaker 1: Yes, seriously, wonder if either of you has ever served
Speaker 1: me a drink one of these like the I have.
Speaker 2: Did you when su started acting? Did you still up
Speaker 2: to bartend or was.
Speaker 4: It like, well what I did? Was this a lovely
Speaker 4: dance of quitting and coming back every time of like
Speaker 4: I'm done, I'm going to big time And like a
Speaker 4: year later.
Speaker 3: Hey guys, you need to pay my brother exactly.
Speaker 4: I take back what I said. Luckily, I never left badly,
Speaker 4: so so it's just like I came back and forth, yes,
Speaker 4: but it's nice to finally yeah, I bet.
Speaker 1: Was it like, did you notice like a big shift
Speaker 1: when you went from like when you came back in
Speaker 1: season twenty one? Were you like, oh, it's kind of
Speaker 1: the same old around here, or was it like very different?
Speaker 4: I mean, I guess it's only different because it's different
Speaker 4: for me as an actor coming back. You know, it's
Speaker 4: so's it was nice, but it's still the same kind
Speaker 4: of thing and everyone's having They're having a ton of fun,
Speaker 4: so maybe you know it was it's a lot maybe
Speaker 4: a little looser, but they're all still doing the thing
Speaker 4: because they've done it for so long. It's just like
Speaker 4: having fun and then boom serious and really good. So
Speaker 4: you know, it's kind of like I remember when I
Speaker 4: did an episode with Jerry Orbach bless him. It's one
Speaker 4: of the best and greatest, and he was literally a
Speaker 4: sleep between takes, but never like not dull at all.
Speaker 4: He'd like action awake and sharp, oh my sharp like that,
Speaker 4: just like just a pro being good and when you
Speaker 4: you know they.
Speaker 3: Train, they take micro naps in between takes.
Speaker 4: It was amazing. I was like, is he asleep? He's
Speaker 4: full on asleep, and then actually he was like, oh wow,
Speaker 4: he was back.
Speaker 3: They really used your character in like a cool way.
Speaker 3: In season twenty one. I thought that they'd have you back,
Speaker 3: like I thought there'd be like more of you.
Speaker 4: I would be like I was hoping to.
Speaker 1: See that they were like, oh, okay, this guy's in
Speaker 1: charge of this big operation, like we're going to be
Speaker 1: seeing him, and yeah, I.
Speaker 4: Kind of was hoping to be brought back. So you
Speaker 4: never know, never no trust me. Especially when organized crime happened.
Speaker 4: I was like, hey, everyone, how about Detective Chin.
Speaker 1: You know, yeah, let's get some help with I mean, honestly,
Speaker 1: that would be a cool next step because they've.
Speaker 3: Already done.
Speaker 1: Army Albanians and then they just did They've done a
Speaker 1: bunch of other stuff, and I feel like it would
Speaker 1: be cool because your expertise is like Chinatown and if
Speaker 1: they got into like some of the Asian gangs.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know exactly, Yeah, think that would Because I
Speaker 4: had a friend that was just on organized crime and
Speaker 4: he was talking about the next stuff being Asian.
Speaker 3: I'm like, we're hopeful, but okay, let's get a call.
Speaker 1: You're a Dick Wolf Universe character, Let's get you in there.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I know, I would love that it would be made. Look,
Speaker 4: you'd be a dream just to be in New York
Speaker 4: and be in those shows. They're always so much fun
Speaker 4: and everyone's so lovely.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Operation Dragon Sleigh exactly.
Speaker 4: It was absolutely called that.
Speaker 2: And then we have like we call them bingo moments,
Speaker 2: like epic kind of sview moments, and you got to
Speaker 2: do one which is like arrest someone in a public thing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, with Kelly Giddish.
Speaker 2: Was that as my film as it is for us
Speaker 2: to like watch as a viewer.
Speaker 4: It was so much fun because also, you know, Kelly
Speaker 4: is amazing too, Like everyone's so lovely, Like Kelly's lovely,
Speaker 4: you just and we're just being able to be over
Speaker 4: there and like, you know, let the old man speak
Speaker 4: and then we go and it's always fun to do
Speaker 4: that fun fast like hop walk with a badge and
Speaker 4: screaming out names, you know, as you go up you're
Speaker 4: under rest like it's it's awesome.
Speaker 1: It never gets And she was on our podcast too,
Speaker 1: the woman who plays the the head like Masks was
Speaker 1: like the rich lady.
Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, she was great. Yees, she was lovely well
Speaker 4: and Kelly Giddish Yes, and Kelly, oh.
Speaker 1: Yes, we're collecting everyone from that episode.
Speaker 3: We just need Scanavino.
Speaker 4: You gotta get.
Speaker 1: Do you go back and forth between playing like really
Speaker 1: really bad guys and like really really good guy like
Speaker 1: cops and then well not like all cops are good,
Speaker 1: but you know what I'm saying in the TV world, sure,
Speaker 1: because like I'm seeing you in Claus, one of my
Speaker 1: favorite shows, that you're.
Speaker 3: Like a really bad guy in that right.
Speaker 4: I was very bad in that. I remember, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 4: my entrance is I sliced the throat of a regular
Speaker 4: on the show and I hadn't watched it, so everyone
Speaker 4: and I remember everyone was like saying goodbye. I was like,
Speaker 4: did I just do something really bad? I was like,
Speaker 4: I was like, hi, I'm sorry. It's like hello and
Speaker 4: you're dead. Like I literally walk up behind her and
Speaker 4: slice her throat as my entrance.
Speaker 3: That show is so wild.
Speaker 1: That's of course how they would give you an entrance.
Speaker 1: Like it's such a while but but yeah, so what
Speaker 1: do you it feels. Do you feel like you do
Speaker 1: mostly extremes like good guy action or like bad guy
Speaker 1: like Underground.
Speaker 4: I'm still I'm starting to like take a little closer
Speaker 4: to good guys sometimes, but I'm still very much of
Speaker 4: the bad guy, you know, but just different, you know,
Speaker 4: different kind of shades of it. But yeah, it is
Speaker 4: nice every time I get to you know, when you
Speaker 4: get to like on Chinatown, that was great to be
Speaker 4: a detective and to be on the right side. But yeah,
Speaker 4: but I definitely am not, you know. I sometimes I've
Speaker 4: read from any a dad role. Now you know, I'm
Speaker 4: in my I'm getting there in my forties and in
Speaker 4: my forty seven, and you know it's I could have
Speaker 4: easily have kids. But it's still funny. They're always like, no,
Speaker 4: we don't see you as a dad. You killed, Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2: Is your long hair personal decision or for film TV?
Speaker 4: Like well, you know, yeah, it's it's actually gone through
Speaker 4: many like COVID happened, and I'd done I've done Mulan
Speaker 4: right before, and I'd kind of been growing it since then,
Speaker 4: and then COVID hit and I was like, it's five
Speaker 4: oh yeah. And I also I was doing the show
Speaker 4: called Stargirl where I was like basically a superhero but
Speaker 4: in a hood all the time, so it didn't matter
Speaker 4: how long my hair was. So it's just kind of
Speaker 4: going with it. And then COVID came and it just
Speaker 4: like kind of kept growing and by the end there
Speaker 4: was like, I don't know, if you've seen a picture,
Speaker 4: there's a picture of me, like I did better things.
Speaker 3: That was weird questions. That's a favorite shows.
Speaker 4: Really, so that was a fun that was super fun.
Speaker 4: She's awesome, but uh but yes, that was like past
Speaker 4: my shoulder. And after that episode, I was like, cut
Speaker 4: this off. So I've been short slowly coming back up
Speaker 4: and I think I've been on a couple of shows
Speaker 4: now so I've had to keep it, but I think
Speaker 4: after the matching goes, I might cut it back to
Speaker 4: actually the length of on Law and Order. I liked
Speaker 4: that length when I was a detective. It wasn't too
Speaker 4: in my way, but it was just long enough. That
Speaker 4: was like kind of cool.
Speaker 3: Totally.
Speaker 2: Do you feel like having your long hair helped you
Speaker 2: secure your better things part as a.
Speaker 4: Oh, I think absolutely yeah that that hair was dumb,
Speaker 4: Like that hair was stupid long, and yes, sometimes, like
Speaker 4: you know, I got a roll on Madam's secretary once
Speaker 4: because I had a shaved head from an their thing,
Speaker 4: and I literally for the audition, I had like a
Speaker 4: red tablecloth and I remember saying my friends like, watch
Speaker 4: me book this right now, and I was like, put
Speaker 4: on this like tablecloth, glad is shaved. I was like, boom.
Speaker 4: It's just when you make it, when you make it
Speaker 4: that easy for them, it's they're like, there he is,
Speaker 4: damn form on.
Speaker 2: In the cartoon. He's like a goofy old man. Yeah,
Speaker 2: like an attractive young man. So did you like crush
Speaker 2: the audition and they changed it?
Speaker 3: They wanted you like what? How did I think that?
Speaker 4: Yeah? I mean I think Nikki always had her mind
Speaker 4: something very different. Obviously, of course everyone's like, where's moose shoe.
Speaker 4: I'm like, yeh here, but you know, but yeah, so
Speaker 4: even that it was very different. And I think with
Speaker 4: Jet they just, you know, they just want something different.
Speaker 4: But Yeah, it was. It was an interesting, very different
Speaker 4: so I know some people are pretty disappointed that they
Speaker 4: didn't have certain things, especially Mooshoo.
Speaker 3: But yeah, it was a different vie. But were you
Speaker 3: pumped to.
Speaker 4: That, Oh my god, Yeah it was. It was like
Speaker 4: obviously the biggest thing. It was like a three hundred
Speaker 4: million dollar movie, and I like, you know, it was
Speaker 4: I'd never been on sets like that. You know, we're
Speaker 4: all in New Zealand. It was amazing. It's beautiful. You're
Speaker 4: on these sets that they're talk about building, like they
Speaker 4: built everything so it's all real. It's all practical. So
Speaker 4: those thrones, those palaces are all real. So they built
Speaker 4: that stuff, and it was it's amazing. You're standing on
Speaker 4: these huge sets and you have this like massive, you know,
Speaker 4: crane camera coming up sweeping around and they're on the
Speaker 4: god mic just like ah, actually, it's it's pretty. It's
Speaker 4: it's magical, and it's like you're like, oh, well, oh
Speaker 4: my god. Yeah, I gotta remind myself that you know,
Speaker 4: this is this is happening.
Speaker 3: But yeah, so different in Zealand a while.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was like a few months, so a lot
Speaker 4: of those guys were there for like six so but
Speaker 4: it was and and talk about a beautiful place. New
Speaker 4: Zealand is epic and just like so awesome. Yeah exactly.
Speaker 4: And you know, especially go South Island, You're like, oh
Speaker 4: my god, it's like you see like the old the
Speaker 4: ring stuff, and it's yeah, it's so cool. It's like
Speaker 4: prehistoric without any bugs. Like that's the cool, like there
Speaker 4: are no, it's not like Australia when everything's trying.
Speaker 3: To kill you. Yes, just like Scorpio.
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, no, it's just like it's like little bird
Speaker 4: like flightless birds walking and waddling around. That's like as
Speaker 4: dangerous as it gifts.
Speaker 3: I love that.
Speaker 1: Do you have like stuff coming up that you are
Speaker 1: excited about or what's I mean?
Speaker 3: Obviously I am he's.
Speaker 1: Only so accurate. I never know what people are really
Speaker 1: up to.
Speaker 4: Yeah, of course there's a So there's a couple of
Speaker 4: things right now. I'm on a show on ABC called
Speaker 4: Company You Keep. I just have a small little arc
Speaker 4: on that, and then I have another show on free
Speaker 4: Form Disney that's called Good Trouble. Oh, and then so
Speaker 4: I'm I'm a new character and that's this this new
Speaker 4: season coming out, and I've got a couple of things
Speaker 4: coming out. And I think there's an amazing film I
Speaker 4: did last year that should hopefully be coming out in
Speaker 4: May that Alex Garland did and with Cares and Dunce
Speaker 4: Lemons and Wagner or Mora, like huge amazing casts called
Speaker 4: Civil War. It's it was like the most intense and
Speaker 4: amazing acting job about.
Speaker 3: The Civil War is about us Civil War.
Speaker 4: I can't tell you it literally, but it is, but
Speaker 4: it is.
Speaker 3: IMDb says plot is under wraps.
Speaker 4: Yes, god, so the name is Civil War, got it?
Speaker 4: But that is. And then there's another show that I
Speaker 4: can't talk about either, but that's I'm very excited about,
Speaker 4: but that I'm not sure when that released. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3: Booked and Blessed baby exciting.
Speaker 4: Yeah, very very exciting. Yeah, no, it's very I'm very
Speaker 4: very lucky. Yeah, so it's any time I get to,
Speaker 4: you know, work, it's.
Speaker 2: Not just luck, because it seems like you got booked
Speaker 2: right out of school and then have been consistently.
Speaker 4: Yeah okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's it's it's been a
Speaker 4: really nice writing. Look, there's always ups and downs, and
Speaker 4: there's some projects you're like, but you know, but then
Speaker 4: you get the better ones and You're like, this is great.
Speaker 4: You know you gotta you gotta pay your dues.
Speaker 3: I loved when you called him slippery in the intro.
Speaker 1: That was Casey. I gotta give that to Casey. Casey
Speaker 1: scripted that slippery for me. He is a slippery little
Speaker 1: He is a slippery little uh two thousands boy. He
Speaker 1: reminds me of like like he looks like in that episode.
Speaker 1: He looks like he would be one of the guys
Speaker 1: from No Doubt when they first like yeah to the scene,
Speaker 1: you know, the chunky necklace, the spiky hair.
Speaker 3: Emo night baby.
Speaker 2: I'm obsessed with Nelson in many ways. He was fun
Speaker 2: to chat.
Speaker 1: With, such a like just like a light person, like
Speaker 1: just so nice and like smiling and just like wow,
Speaker 1: I'm so happy I have had all these opportunities and
Speaker 1: I can't believe that like him and Careesy like definitely
Speaker 1: served me at b Bar one time. Like I went
Speaker 1: there all the time when I was in the page
Speaker 1: program and I probably ordered like one mixed drink because
Speaker 1: I was so poor, but I'm sure they gave it.
Speaker 3: To me one time. So what did we learn.
Speaker 1: Let's not be racist, because if someone is genetically predisposed
Speaker 1: to violence, you're really just making it worse, and then.
Speaker 3: The only reason, yeah, you're making it worse. Just stop.
Speaker 1: No, And also, yeah, just don't be racist, I feel
Speaker 1: like is a central theme of our podcast.
Speaker 2: But it's like so fucked to see like a baby
Speaker 2: child and not be cured of racism. Like I don't
Speaker 2: get it. Yeah, I really don't understand how you keep
Speaker 2: being so hateful.
Speaker 3: Towards so much a kid.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because adults they're annoying, of course, and then you
Speaker 2: can find any reason to be hateful, like you know,
Speaker 2: like once you're an adult, like racism sucks, but okay,
Speaker 2: but to look into like a little child and be
Speaker 2: like ah, yeah I've taken this fuck this kid, like
Speaker 2: what the fuck?
Speaker 3: What's so crazy? Yeah?
Speaker 2: So sad I also learned getting jaw wired shut nightmare.
Speaker 3: And you don't want that, you know, I don't want that.
Speaker 2: Also, I mean, I guess Johnny Chinnon wasn't the criminal,
Speaker 2: but he did leave his sister.
Speaker 3: Don't leave your siblings behind.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, no sibling left behind. You got to scoop
Speaker 1: her uppie, although I don't know, maybe she had a
Speaker 1: spinal injury and she ended up she did have a
Speaker 1: spinal injury. Her fucking head was in like head gears.
Speaker 1: Maybe you better he did it.
Speaker 2: Move you sit next to her, and then you get
Speaker 2: go down and you go down for the robbery. You know,
Speaker 2: you do the acting skills and you go.
Speaker 3: I don't know what happened, my sister.
Speaker 2: You don't have to be in the robbery. Oh okay,
Speaker 2: you didn't learn. You didn't take improv with your crime troop,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean?
Speaker 3: I didn't think.
Speaker 1: I just think sp is going to see right through that,
Speaker 1: especially when they see this guy's a known gang affiliated man.
Speaker 3: But the spiky necklace, yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then laser tattoo, think why was he That
Speaker 1: was a weird thing too. Why was he getting the
Speaker 1: tattoo lasered off? Because you wanted to be in the gang,
Speaker 1: but his gang just did the robbery. I think it's
Speaker 1: hard to leave a gang. Okay, yeah, I don't think
Speaker 1: you can get so leave. We learn we need more
Speaker 1: gangs where women are members, because I feel like they
Speaker 1: would be better organized, less.
Speaker 3: Violent women led gangs. Yeah, women led gangs. Let's look
Speaker 3: into it. Anyway. We can move on.
Speaker 1: What would sister Peg do for this week? That is
Speaker 1: our weekly segment where we direct you to an organization.
Speaker 2: No, we learned other things. Fuck acab France, how about that?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, fuck Paris, Fuck I'm fuck You're you're mad
Speaker 2: at us because we're annoying Americans wearing sneakers. Well, fuck
Speaker 2: you for not putting rapists stab you guys.
Speaker 1: Just let a guy murder for twenty years and gave
Speaker 1: him like slaps on the wrist for rape.
Speaker 2: Jesus ah, he just stabbed a woman in the face.
Speaker 2: Give him ten months insane truly and continue.
Speaker 1: Okay, So what would sister peg do our weekly segment
Speaker 1: where we point you to an article, an organization, a
Speaker 1: podcast episode, something to give you more info about an
Speaker 1: issue or a topic we talked on today in today's episode,
Speaker 1: And I just wanted to direct you guys this week
Speaker 1: to Embrace Race dot Org. Embrace Race dot Org's mission
Speaker 1: is to raise a generation of children who are thoughtful, informed,
Speaker 1: and brave about race. And there is a whole section
Speaker 1: titled things to know if you love a multiracial child.
Speaker 1: So I just saw a lot of this episode involved
Speaker 1: like this family's inability to accept this child, and I
Speaker 1: thought this would be an interesting resource for people who
Speaker 1: have multiracial children in their life. I think there's just
Speaker 1: some things we can't understand if you're not straddling the
Speaker 1: line of two cultures the way a lot of multiracial
Speaker 1: children are. So there are articles, audio stories, firsthand experiences
Speaker 1: from people raising multiracial children, and there's a lot of
Speaker 1: info on this site and their resources help educate on
Speaker 1: using proper terminology, tackling ethno racial identity, and so much
Speaker 1: more so check out Embrace Race dot org and as usual,
Speaker 1: that will be saved on the day this episode comes
Speaker 1: out in highlight on our Instagram page that's messed Up
Speaker 1: Pod in a highlight called WWSPD two amazing.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, and next week we will be
Speaker 2: doing the episode Inconceivable season nine, episode fourteen. We will
Speaker 2: see you there Hulu, Peacock, go rate us, review us
Speaker 2: on the Apple podcasts or Whatnot, see us live where
Speaker 2: you see us, follow us somewhere.
Speaker 3: I don't know. We love you all. Thank you so much.
Speaker 3: Bye bye.
Speaker 2: That's messed Up as an exactly right production.
Speaker 1: If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
Speaker 1: episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
Speaker 1: it that's messed uppod at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2: Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod
Speaker 2: and on Twitter at Messed Up Pod, and follow us
Speaker 2: personally at Kara Klank and at Glitter Cheese.
Speaker 1: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
Speaker 1: more information.
Speaker 3: Thank you so.
Speaker 2: Much to our producer Kac O'Brien, and to.
Speaker 1: Our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker Patrick Cotner,
Speaker 1: and to Henry Kaperski for our theme song, and Carly
Speaker 1: Geen Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to our executive
Speaker 1: producers Georgia hard Start, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer, and everybody
Speaker 1: at Exactly Right Media.
Speaker 4: Dun dun