Speaker 1: This is me eat your podcast coming at you shirtless, severely,
Speaker 1: bug bitten, and in my case, underwear. Listening past, you
Speaker 1: can't predict anything presented by first, like creating proven versatile
Speaker 1: hunting apparel from Marino bass layers to technical outer where
Speaker 1: for every hunt, first light, go farther, stay longer. Alrightybody,
Speaker 1: we got a lot, We got a lot we gotta cover.
Speaker 1: First thing I gotta cover is the most important part.
Speaker 1: I you know, I saw this morning I haven't seen forever.
Speaker 1: Is I was driving my boy to school and I
Speaker 1: saw a woman doing her makeup at the stoplight. Man,
Speaker 1: But listen, I always root. That's I always root for
Speaker 1: that woman, all right, because she's got a lot of
Speaker 1: stuff she's got to do. She's like trying to get somewhere.
Speaker 1: I don't know. Like if I see a person with
Speaker 1: a little white, yappy dog on their lap, I root
Speaker 1: against him. It's like just rut against him. If I
Speaker 1: see a woman doing her makeup at the stop I'm rude.
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, isn't it the same kind of woman
Speaker 1: with a little yappy dog? Woman just like I just
Speaker 1: feel for I'm like, man's probably whatever she's got to
Speaker 1: get somewhere and didn't have time living the American dream.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I just was like kind of wanted
Speaker 1: to give her a but that she would have taken
Speaker 1: it the wrong way. If I had given her a
Speaker 1: fist pump, she'd been like, she would have given me
Speaker 1: the finger. Yeah, she's working on her makeup because she
Speaker 1: was out training her bird dogs earlier dog I said,
Speaker 1: a little one of those little white yappy dogs. You
Speaker 1: missed it, count I was on the same page. I
Speaker 1: think we might be anti makeup slightly. Any strong feelings
Speaker 1: from makeup either way, I'm just saying I just wind
Speaker 1: up rooting for him, like like, hey, I hope you
Speaker 1: get there in time. You know what's fascinating about your
Speaker 1: head to an interview out of the products industry, is
Speaker 1: that sperm whale snot that they've that's the super valuable Ambergers. Yeah, really,
Speaker 1: that's a thing now, always has Amberger. There's a whole
Speaker 1: book about that, Amburgers, key and Belize. Yeah. I never
Speaker 1: found a lot. That's where they get. Well, you find
Speaker 1: a lot of it on the beach. It turns into
Speaker 1: like some kind of rock after a while, big big business,
Speaker 1: the stuff lamp oil right, is the base? Yeah, is
Speaker 1: this stuff is is the base for all sorts of
Speaker 1: perfumes and scents and stuff like that. Beaver caster goes
Speaker 1: into perfumes. Yeah, we've covered that thousand times. Uh. Yeah.
Speaker 1: The oil, the sperm whale he had, like his really
Speaker 1: valuable oil is up in his open his knog and yeah,
Speaker 1: and this stuff i'd like to get in that business man.
Speaker 1: The theory is like all the capsulated like uh, squid
Speaker 1: beaks and stuff like that that they that they can't
Speaker 1: pass but can't digest either. That's what kind of forms
Speaker 1: around that stuff, the ambergriss is and then eventually they
Speaker 1: hawk that thing up and it's this floating matt and
Speaker 1: whale sound effects. I've seen it a few times. It
Speaker 1: sounds like this. That sounds accurate, Grandpa. And then the
Speaker 1: sounds exactly like that. Ferments that stuff as it's floating
Speaker 1: in the salt water and it's and it's the it's
Speaker 1: got to spend some time in the sun outside of
Speaker 1: the whale to really get the high quality product. But seriously, yeah,
Speaker 1: in any kind of whale throwing up or any kind
Speaker 1: of whale, it's a tooth whale because he's eating squid
Speaker 1: be because eating more squid beaks. Yeah, man, that's really interesting,
Speaker 1: super interesting. I love it. And then ladies paid to
Speaker 1: put that on their faces. Bringing it all back to
Speaker 1: the lady in the car. They test that in the
Speaker 1: rabbit's eyeballs first. Well yeah, if they're out of dogs,
Speaker 1: well yeah, uh, monkeys and dogs. That would have been
Speaker 1: a being a whaler man would have been interesting business.
Speaker 1: They take off out of the East Coast, you know
Speaker 1: all those famous whaling towns. The widows walks on the rooftops,
Speaker 1: drive not drive, sail. Think about this, you sailed down
Speaker 1: around the tip of South America, they'd come up. They'd
Speaker 1: leave in the fall, do all that whale in the
Speaker 1: winter in the South Pacific, drop all the oil and
Speaker 1: uh baleen in Hawaii, go whale the North Pacific, get frozen,
Speaker 1: eat each other and everything, get a ride on another boat,
Speaker 1: and you come back. He'd gone two years. Can you
Speaker 1: imagine what their range Their perspective on the word comfortable.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, like when you're on some three hour flight,
Speaker 1: like sky keeps putting his elbow on my arm. Rust,
Speaker 1: don't go back far enough? Oh so we can stick
Speaker 1: some make up on I you win my makeup in
Speaker 1: the weekend, and so unforgiving that, ladies and gentlemen, this
Speaker 1: is ah. So here's the thing we have for years,
Speaker 1: we have for years, uh not dogged on Europe, but uh,
Speaker 1: we have for years, uh taking a very naive, cynical, no,
Speaker 1: what's the way to put it, shallow, ignorant, sure American,
Speaker 1: a very American perspective on what hunting in Europe was like.
Speaker 1: And we have just said, like the European model, right,
Speaker 1: even though you're talking about how many countries you guys
Speaker 1: got over there, I couldn't tell you. You don't even known.
Speaker 1: But it's like it's like the States. It's like, I
Speaker 1: consider States, fifty different countries. Yeah, it's just sure you
Speaker 1: share the same language. We just don't. But but yeah,
Speaker 1: we have fifty different sets of hunting rules. Yeah, way
Speaker 1: different methodologies and systems, and it will be exactly the
Speaker 1: same if you compared France with Denmark or Sweden or
Speaker 1: you know, they're all going to have different rules and
Speaker 1: REGs and different etiquettes, different ways of doing things, for sure.
Speaker 1: So we have and been called out on this a
Speaker 1: number of times for being like you guys sound like
Speaker 1: a bunch of idiots when you talk about Europe. So
Speaker 1: we have committed ourselves kremsment working our asshole and I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna help on that one guy. We've committed ourselves
Speaker 1: that we're gonna give our listeners uh an extended like
Speaker 1: this is just the first installment. This is just to
Speaker 1: kick things off. We're gonna start a thing called the
Speaker 1: euro Report where we explore quickly and efficiently and give
Speaker 1: you a crash course on hunting in European countries and
Speaker 1: they'll probably take it around the world. We're gonna start
Speaker 1: with Europe and we're just starting out robed, so we
Speaker 1: don't need show facts out of you. We just needs
Speaker 1: somebody with the accent itmac Man. Yeah, if you win,
Speaker 1: then next, but find somebody else. Now I can give
Speaker 1: you a flavor for sure. Yeah, that's what we're looking
Speaker 1: for you just right now. Flavor. This is a little
Speaker 1: style to pack. Uh. Pete, you're here right, Pete Alonzo Okay,
Speaker 1: Uh you still play in first base, Pete, yes, okay,
Speaker 1: first basement from the New York mets Uh is joining
Speaker 1: us and he comes on. He's our sport he's our
Speaker 1: resident sports analyst. Most recently, Pete came on to explain
Speaker 1: his feelings about when Peter suggested they stopped calling the
Speaker 1: bullpen the bullpen, and and Pete analyzed that for us. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean again, that's that's that's a head scratcher of me. Okay,
Speaker 1: now real quick, you got hit in the face real
Speaker 1: bad the other day. How is that? Yeah? So uh
Speaker 1: I've been playing well. I mean honestly, it was like
Speaker 1: it was like a really strong cup of coffee, Like
Speaker 1: I was super alert in awake right after. Um, but
Speaker 1: it was, I mean it was. It sucks, not gonna
Speaker 1: lie um on. My lip is split open and uh
Speaker 1: yeah yeah it's split. No stitches, but it's kind of
Speaker 1: it's healing decently. Well. Uh, it's makes it kind of
Speaker 1: difficult to kiss my wife. But that's okay. But other
Speaker 1: than that, that's that's all good. Lay off the spicy
Speaker 1: foods for a while. So, pet how do you decide
Speaker 1: how does not you but how does it bad? Or
Speaker 1: decide whether he when he gets hit, how does he
Speaker 1: make the call whether he's going to run out and
Speaker 1: beat the picture or not? So I wanted I wanted
Speaker 1: to so bad. Um And there's a lot of there's
Speaker 1: a lot of circumstances when it comes to go out there.
Speaker 1: So the next night, okay, so the next night are
Speaker 1: um are shortstop got hit in the mouth. We had
Speaker 1: two guys get hit in the mouth in two days,
Speaker 1: and we and he had a couple of teeth cracked,
Speaker 1: and and we and we cleared benches. No, no punches
Speaker 1: were thrown. But you gotta I mean sometimes like you
Speaker 1: have to let the other team or let the other
Speaker 1: picture know that, Hey, what you like, you're throwing up.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not staying it's like a deadly weapon,
Speaker 1: but you could seriously hurt some people. Like guys are
Speaker 1: throwing and if you catch someone in the wrong place
Speaker 1: in the head, that's that's that's a broken jaw, that's
Speaker 1: a broken nose. Like it's I'm not saying it's it's
Speaker 1: like hockey by any means, but guys can get pretty
Speaker 1: seriously hurt. And well, you just won over a lot
Speaker 1: of hockey fans right there, Pete. If you've got some
Speaker 1: bullshit that happens, you gotta you gotta stand up for
Speaker 1: your teammates in yourself. And how sure, we like these
Speaker 1: guys have really good aim and accuracy, so you kind
Speaker 1: of determine it's on purpose. I mean, you can just
Speaker 1: tell because no one just misses that bad. That's what
Speaker 1: that was my next question. So you like he's playing
Speaker 1: with he's like trying to spook you a little bit
Speaker 1: and then maybe spook you a little too much. Well,
Speaker 1: I mean, it's not more of like a spook thing.
Speaker 1: It's more it's it's kind of like an ego gameplay
Speaker 1: mind game thing. It's like, you're gonna back off the dish.
Speaker 1: This is my zone, this is my plate um, and
Speaker 1: and pretty much there's a lot of uh, there's a
Speaker 1: lot of subtleties to the game of baseball where it's
Speaker 1: lost it inside. He's like saying, he's pretty much telling
Speaker 1: you it's like, listen, this is my zone. This is
Speaker 1: my part of the dish. You are not going to
Speaker 1: get your hands extended and take in and do anything.
Speaker 1: The worst you're gonna do if you make contact, you're
Speaker 1: gonna break your back. Look like you idiot. So I
Speaker 1: mean that's if a picture's thrown inside, that's that's the
Speaker 1: what he's trying to convey to the hitter. But also
Speaker 1: if you get a guy hitting people, that's just lack
Speaker 1: of care. That's just like that, that's honestly just disrespect
Speaker 1: not just to you as a hitter, but you're um
Speaker 1: to the entire team, especially if you're hitting multiple guys
Speaker 1: in multiple days. Uh. And then when this happens, this
Speaker 1: isn't what we called you about, Pete, But I'm just
Speaker 1: curious when that happens. Um. Uh. You probably know the
Speaker 1: guy though, right, Like you probably like maybe not friends
Speaker 1: with him, but you definitely know who he is. I mean,
Speaker 1: people think that it's funny in sports, like people think
Speaker 1: that like we're a bunch of strangers that like hate
Speaker 1: each other off the field like it's rivalry. But in reality,
Speaker 1: if if it's a highly contested game, whoever wins or loses,
Speaker 1: that's great. But you we've played against each other pretty
Speaker 1: much our entire lives, whether it be in high school
Speaker 1: and college, in the minor leagues, and in various various
Speaker 1: years in professional baseball and and even in the big leagues.
Speaker 1: It's like I've gotten to know some guys I've played against.
Speaker 1: I've become really really close as friends with certain guys
Speaker 1: I play against and and played with, so or of
Speaker 1: a community and and you would like to think that, um,
Speaker 1: through the Through those experiences together, you just kind of
Speaker 1: learned to appreciate what what each other does, and and
Speaker 1: you respect each other as an opponent as opposed to
Speaker 1: like have anything malicious or like any like fuck you
Speaker 1: to it. M hmm. If you acted like the bat
Speaker 1: slipped out of your hands and flew out there at him,
Speaker 1: that doesn't probably go over real well doesn't. Oh No,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm probably I'm probably the catchers probably getting getting
Speaker 1: right in my face, and we're probably clear because no
Speaker 1: no one throws their bat. Got it? Okay, here's what
Speaker 1: I called. You asked about most of it. Seems like
Speaker 1: most of our listeners are uh, they chew, they dip
Speaker 1: and that was astonished the other day. So we like
Speaker 1: to cover dip a little bit. It's kind of the
Speaker 1: only area where we stray outside of our home territory.
Speaker 1: Someone told me the other day that you guys aren't
Speaker 1: allowed to dip um like you can't uh, you can't
Speaker 1: pack a dip playing baseball anymore. Who the hell told
Speaker 1: me that? Someone told me you're not supposed to be
Speaker 1: out there spitting. So I heard that because I got
Speaker 1: my Caren, got my kids couple bags, Big League Q
Speaker 1: which went over real well. And someone told me that
Speaker 1: in the major leagues now they mix there that they're
Speaker 1: actually is. I was wondering why they still even make
Speaker 1: Big League chew, and someone told me that that you
Speaker 1: guys mix your dip with big league chew and chew it. Okay, okay,
Speaker 1: they're they're they're half right and half wrong. So there's
Speaker 1: different rules in place. There's there are police um, not
Speaker 1: just in the big leagues, but in the minor leagues
Speaker 1: as well. In the minor leagues, if you get caught
Speaker 1: with um with dip in your locker, it's it's a
Speaker 1: fun You get fined, so you have to put it away.
Speaker 1: But hold one second, our guests, he's from Europe, so
Speaker 1: like he knows nothing about baseball. All, well, the hells
Speaker 1: did in Europe? Dip a big thing in Europe. No,
Speaker 1: never heard of it. And you guys over where you live,
Speaker 1: everybody snorts it up their nose. We smoked fags cigarettes. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we share the same language, we're just use in a
Speaker 1: different ways different areas. Okay, Pete, sorry, But also you
Speaker 1: have different types of you have different types of tobacco.
Speaker 1: You have the dip, which is like the super fine
Speaker 1: that you get in like a round tin can. And
Speaker 1: then also you have the chew um like typical typical
Speaker 1: chew It's it's like red man, it's like the whole
Speaker 1: leaf um. I I used to but I quit in college.
Speaker 1: What I would do, I would I would throw in
Speaker 1: a throwing a lip or throwing a wad and and
Speaker 1: have an extra large dunk and coffee and then knock
Speaker 1: out my papers. That's what I would do. But I mean,
Speaker 1: it's a nasty habit. I don't do it. I quit um.
Speaker 1: I quit chewing tobacco because I've seen a ton of
Speaker 1: people have a ton of different health issues. Like I
Speaker 1: know some kids, like some kids like my age that
Speaker 1: have had like gum grabs and stuff like that. It's
Speaker 1: not it's not pretty stuff, very against it. But the
Speaker 1: rules in the big leagues are a lot different than
Speaker 1: minor league. It's a lot more strict. Like guys play
Speaker 1: with like pretty much big fat rocks in their mouth,
Speaker 1: like just huge wads of whatever, and then it's and
Speaker 1: then it's it doesn't change. The only thing that you're
Speaker 1: not that's different is you're not allowed to have like
Speaker 1: a can or a pouch in your pocket while you're playing,
Speaker 1: or you're not allowed to dip while you have an
Speaker 1: interview going on, keeping it so they don't want the can.
Speaker 1: They don't want you play and showing that little tint
Speaker 1: or the pouch. But if you mix chew, so chew
Speaker 1: and dip are different for people who aren't necessarily experts.
Speaker 1: So chew it has like this like cinnamony, like honey
Speaker 1: type tobatt leathery flavor. So if you were to mix
Speaker 1: that with gum, so a lot of people what they
Speaker 1: do uh to kind of savor it and make it
Speaker 1: last longer. And also like for people that have been
Speaker 1: doing it a long time, they actually chew chew like bubblegum.
Speaker 1: So it's some people do to hide it. They mix
Speaker 1: it with bubble gum, like they makes a big wad
Speaker 1: of chewing tobacco and then put it inside the bubble
Speaker 1: gump like they wrap it in in the ball. Yeah,
Speaker 1: what do you guys call that? You've got a good
Speaker 1: name for it. People that dip to or whatever, they
Speaker 1: always have great names for everything. I don't know. That's
Speaker 1: just how it's like a blunt. It's like a blunt.
Speaker 1: It's like a tobacco blunt. This is a good reminder
Speaker 1: to everybody that there's a lot of people under the
Speaker 1: age of twenty in the Major League correct, Like not really,
Speaker 1: I mean it's it's it's a okay. Do you know
Speaker 1: anybody around the age of forty that's mixing bubble gum
Speaker 1: with chew? Yes? Really? Yes? Man? He pizza putting gal
Speaker 1: in his place. Yeah. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: be naming names or pointing fingers, but I mean there
Speaker 1: are people that do that. If you want a big wad,
Speaker 1: like if you want to have like a like pretty
Speaker 1: much like a rock size, like a nice skipping rock size,
Speaker 1: like water tobacco, you mix it with the gum and
Speaker 1: then you chew it pretty much all game. And if
Speaker 1: you're not getting any hits or if the team's not
Speaker 1: doing well, you you get a new wad you and
Speaker 1: then you start you start over, change your luck. Do
Speaker 1: they use Big League Q though, I mean we are
Speaker 1: Hubba Bubba team, but other teams, Pete, this is were
Speaker 1: you out a game? It's actually an Honestly, I thought
Speaker 1: I had a game today, but I'm I'm I'm here.
Speaker 1: If you guys, I'm here too. If you got any
Speaker 1: more questions, Um, if you got Also, there's this thing
Speaker 1: that the Dominicans do. It's called pick a duro. It's
Speaker 1: like they put like khalua, cinnamon, sugar, baking like baking soda,
Speaker 1: baking powder, powder, and then rum and then what they
Speaker 1: do they mix it in the tuning tobacco and then
Speaker 1: they bare they let it marinate and it's basically like
Speaker 1: a ferment where like out under the plate. No they
Speaker 1: like I don't know where, but they stadiums and then
Speaker 1: they know and then they know on that and then
Speaker 1: that's I mean, that's honestly like like going on a
Speaker 1: on a space shuttle, like if you were to have that.
Speaker 1: I wonder if Jared Outlaw has tried that before, well
Speaker 1: pec pizza pizza. Apparently he's anti tobacco. So I was
Speaker 1: hoping Jared Outlaws listening right now, he'd have to retort,
Speaker 1: he'd come and tell you how healthy is I mean,
Speaker 1: some people say they don't get sick from it, but
Speaker 1: I mean again, like I don't know, like but it's
Speaker 1: it's for me, it's not I'm not. I'm just I'm
Speaker 1: just telling you guys, what what people do you know?
Speaker 1: I mean, there's differently. It's like, that's why, that's that's
Speaker 1: why we're coming for you. Man, that's like a good analyst.
Speaker 1: You're not you're trying to advance the ball, dude, You're
Speaker 1: not trying to push an agenda. Man, No exactly. I
Speaker 1: mean I don't do it. I again, like it's it's
Speaker 1: it's a nasty habit. And I've seen some guys like
Speaker 1: have some serious, serious like health issues because of it.
Speaker 1: And also like it's it's extremely sad because there's some
Speaker 1: incredible grates in our in our game of baseball that
Speaker 1: passed away from whether it be throat cancer, gum cancer,
Speaker 1: lung cancer due to chewing tobacco. So um, it's it's sad,
Speaker 1: you know when you see guys like pass on like
Speaker 1: in their forties and fifties from it. So it's it's upsetting.
Speaker 1: But and I hope that people quit it and just
Speaker 1: for the just for their family's sake. You've been, uh,
Speaker 1: you've been getting out on the water pete fishing in
Speaker 1: the season. No, but I had a really good, really
Speaker 1: good time, like chasing after some red fish and and
Speaker 1: some snooks. So it's really good, really really good time.
Speaker 1: And also I got my Uh, my fishing trip up
Speaker 1: on the t R C p H website. Anybody can
Speaker 1: go bid on that for a trip to to go
Speaker 1: out with me on the water. So if Steve, you
Speaker 1: can bid on it, if you if you want to
Speaker 1: come down, and that's good. But that's coming right up.
Speaker 1: I think it's the fifth of Yeah, so you've been
Speaker 1: a hall asks. If you're gonna bid on that, I
Speaker 1: might go bid on it. Pete, I'd like to go
Speaker 1: fishing with you. All right, We're gonna go, ladies and gentlemen.
Speaker 1: That's America's baseball player, Pete Alonso. All right, thank you
Speaker 1: so much. We're gonna go talk to some stupid lawyer now, Pete,
Speaker 1: so from sounds good? Hit one real far, Pete, you
Speaker 1: got it? Alright, alright, alright folks. Now we're gonna turn
Speaker 1: it over to a conversation with our legal analyst. Uh,
Speaker 1: Dave Wilms. Dave Wilves. Uh, introduce yourself real quick and
Speaker 1: tell people what you do now, like what you do
Speaker 1: now for a living. But but talk about how you
Speaker 1: haven't been disbarred or anything. I have not been disbarred. Yeah,
Speaker 1: thanks Steve. Putting that that's why people to know that
Speaker 1: our legal analysts like. Even though he's not being a
Speaker 1: lawyer at the moment, he's a lawyer, he's a legal analyst.
Speaker 1: That's once you're a lawyer, you're always a lawyer. Okay, good,
Speaker 1: good good? Yeah yeah. So yeah, Now I work for
Speaker 1: the National Wildlife Federation UM, working on public land issues
Speaker 1: and wildlife issues and UM, but before I was a
Speaker 1: practicing attorney for more than a decade and worked in
Speaker 1: wildlife law areas and represented state agencies and uh in
Speaker 1: private practice as well. So, UM, is that that enough
Speaker 1: background for you? Oh? No, that makes you seem like
Speaker 1: extremely credential. And you've been on the show I don't
Speaker 1: know how many times, so people know who you are. Uh,
Speaker 1: here's what we gotta talk to Dave about. And you know,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna set it up on a very I'm gonna
Speaker 1: set it up very high level. And then and then
Speaker 1: and then David Williams will get into the details. But
Speaker 1: and if I if the setup is flawed, Dave just
Speaker 1: go ahead and correct me on this. But everybody knows.
Speaker 1: Everybody knows that, UM, a police officer, like a regular
Speaker 1: police officer, can't just come snooping around your shed and
Speaker 1: walking around your property. He needs to have probable cause
Speaker 1: and needs to get um, you know, they want need
Speaker 1: to go get a search warrant, right or the like
Speaker 1: actually chasing somebody or something, but just to go do
Speaker 1: a search on a hunch or whatever, they have to
Speaker 1: get a search warrant to go on it. But everybody
Speaker 1: also knows that you could be sitting out in a
Speaker 1: deer stand on private property and a game warden can
Speaker 1: decide just to have a mosey over and see what's
Speaker 1: going on. They have what was open field doctrine for
Speaker 1: wildlife law enforcement, but Tennessee just had the open They
Speaker 1: had a court case or the open field doctrine was
Speaker 1: declared unconstitutional, which would mean that a game warden to
Speaker 1: go check a private property hunter would need to get
Speaker 1: a search warrant, which I'm guessing and Dave and clarify,
Speaker 1: I'm guessing this would happen. This must have like huge
Speaker 1: ramifications for wildlife law enforcement. Uh? Is am I overstating that?
Speaker 1: Or is that correct? Well? Can I step you back
Speaker 1: just a minute, because I don't actually all the way okay, perfect,
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't think the case actually says um
Speaker 1: that the open fields doctrine is unconstitutional. What what this
Speaker 1: case was doing was there were a couple of landowners
Speaker 1: that were challenging the constitutionality of a state statute. That
Speaker 1: state statute authorized UH law enforcement game wardens UH two
Speaker 1: enter property and I think the exact words are go
Speaker 1: upon any property outside of buildings, posted or otherwise in
Speaker 1: performance of the executive director's duties. And so the open
Speaker 1: fields doctrine, like you correctly noted, right it It is
Speaker 1: basically this concept that is built in US Supreme Court
Speaker 1: law and affirmed by a bunch of state supreme courts
Speaker 1: around the country as well, says if you are outside
Speaker 1: of the the main home and and uh and the
Speaker 1: curtilage the area around that home where you have a
Speaker 1: reasonable expectation of privacy, that outside of there, it's it's
Speaker 1: open fields. And you're not protected by the Fourth Amendment
Speaker 1: against illegal search and seizure. So this state statute that said, well,
Speaker 1: anywhere except buildings you can you can search. You know,
Speaker 1: it was the the idea was the plaintiffs in this case,
Speaker 1: the landowners were saying, well, that's an unconstitutional application of
Speaker 1: the open fields doctrine because there are going to be
Speaker 1: some places outside of these buildings where you cannot search. Um,
Speaker 1: and so that that I mean, that was sort of
Speaker 1: the premise. I don't actually think the open fields doctrine
Speaker 1: it was viewed as unconstitutional. But but what it does
Speaker 1: here in Tennessee, at least at at this level, there's
Speaker 1: still appeals that could occur, right as it appears to
Speaker 1: me anyway that you know, if you've if you've posted
Speaker 1: your property and you've you've made a reasonable expectations to
Speaker 1: put people on notice that that you don't want anybody there,
Speaker 1: and it's it's private property, and you're exercising that and
Speaker 1: you're using that property that yeah, you have to have
Speaker 1: permission or a warrant to enter those places. But it
Speaker 1: also UH says there are certainly places that are wild
Speaker 1: or unoccupied. Uh why I think it's wild or waste
Speaker 1: lands or or there might have been some other language
Speaker 1: there that the court was siding to that that fall
Speaker 1: still fall outside of the purview of the Fourth Amendment
Speaker 1: or the in this instance, the Tennessee version of the
Speaker 1: Fourth Amendment against uh, the legal search and seizure. That
Speaker 1: makes sense, Yeah, but what so, but why if what
Speaker 1: makes people in Tennessee up in arms about this, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean like put yourself in the war, like put
Speaker 1: yourself in the wardens. Uh mind frame. Yeah, sure, So
Speaker 1: my I suspect right that, and this is this is
Speaker 1: a lot of Uh, I'm going to suspect I would
Speaker 1: assume you know that sort of thing because I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't know specifically, I haven't talked to a specific
Speaker 1: warden here about it. But um, before this, you had
Speaker 1: a statute that said they could basically go anywhere to
Speaker 1: enforce the state game laws. And now you have a
Speaker 1: case that greatly restricts the places that they might be
Speaker 1: able to to go without a warrant um or without
Speaker 1: landowner permission to enforce those state game laws. And so
Speaker 1: I think there's um, I've seen the argument in other
Speaker 1: places that you know, Tennessee is not unique. There are
Speaker 1: other states that uh have restricted, have have more um,
Speaker 1: have more expansive views of the Fourth Amendment rights. It
Speaker 1: extends to farther to more lands than other places. Right then,
Speaker 1: So so you have the the federal government that has
Speaker 1: that has this U. S. Supreme Court case you know,
Speaker 1: dating back to the nineteen twenties US Hester case that's
Speaker 1: set up the the open fields doctrine. But then you
Speaker 1: have state constitutions that also have Fourth Amendment search and
Speaker 1: seizures and so uh, states are are able to interpret
Speaker 1: that lad you know, their own constitutions, and they can
Speaker 1: be more restrictive than the the U. S. Constitution. And
Speaker 1: so you have a number of states that have done this.
Speaker 1: Tennessee is not unique here. But I have seen the
Speaker 1: arguments pop up. There's you know, there's UH. I've seen
Speaker 1: people wardens are afraid, um. You know what what if they,
Speaker 1: for example, see an animal that's wounded and want to
Speaker 1: humanly dispatch that, do they have to first get permission?
Speaker 1: Or can they enter this open field and and dispatch
Speaker 1: a wounded animal? They might not be able to without permission,
Speaker 1: you know, depending on how the how this open fields
Speaker 1: doctrine has defined UM. And then also I've heard the
Speaker 1: argument of you know, wardens are charged with protecting and
Speaker 1: conserving a public trust resource being wildlife, and they need
Speaker 1: the ability to quickly access areas and to check hunters
Speaker 1: um and that wildlife don't respect private property boundaries, and
Speaker 1: the agency has charged with managing all wildlife and needs
Speaker 1: to be able to to do that, and this would
Speaker 1: create a limitation of being able to do that. And
Speaker 1: I've also heard it could uh there's concerns that it
Speaker 1: could send incentivize bad actors, you know, meaning, uh, if
Speaker 1: if you know that a warden no longer can use
Speaker 1: what they thought the open field doctrine allowed, and it's
Speaker 1: now much more narrow narrowly defined, that there might be
Speaker 1: a lot of places now where uh, the risk of
Speaker 1: poaching goes up. Oh I would that would be like
Speaker 1: a huge that would have to enter people's mind. Oh yeah, Hey, Dave,
Speaker 1: this brody, I got a question for you about like
Speaker 1: how it used to be versus how it's gonna be now.
Speaker 1: Like let's say a game warden's parked on a country
Speaker 1: road and there's a dude off on and a tree stand. Um,
Speaker 1: game warden, here's a bunch of shooting, and then sees
Speaker 1: a guy dragging what appears to be a dope during
Speaker 1: buck season, Like it's private property, Like, now, can that
Speaker 1: warden go check that guy out? Yeah? Yeah, So, And
Speaker 1: let me be clear, I'm not licensed in Tennessee, so
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to interpret Tennessee law here. Uh. And
Speaker 1: this is just sort of a uh, you know, one
Speaker 1: guy's opinion of the situation. But that's the facts that
Speaker 1: you described. In a lot of places, if if you
Speaker 1: see something from a public road, there's no expectation of privacy.
Speaker 1: First of all, So you witness a crime being committed
Speaker 1: on private land from public a public road, that law
Speaker 1: enforcement officer can respond to that uh, criminal activity as
Speaker 1: it's occurring. You know, you're you, you see it happen,
Speaker 1: you can respond. Um. But if he just got but
Speaker 1: if he just got a call from like one of
Speaker 1: the neighbors, he couldn't just go check it out. And
Speaker 1: so this is a this is where it's one of
Speaker 1: those It depends, you know, it depends on what that
Speaker 1: land is is it would it qualify as this wild
Speaker 1: or waste lands under uh, under the Tennessee law, I
Speaker 1: don't know. It's so the point being, this is gonna
Speaker 1: be so circumstance specific. If this case holds, like like
Speaker 1: right now it's at a circuit courd, it can still
Speaker 1: go to an appellate court, it can still go to
Speaker 1: the state Supreme Court. If this decision holds, I think
Speaker 1: a lot of the hypotheticals are really going to be
Speaker 1: circumstanced specific. Right. So the fact so if you if
Speaker 1: you're struggling with this. How does it go on the ground?
Speaker 1: Cut with it? Right? I mean we're having an adult
Speaker 1: conversation to you about these and they're so great it
Speaker 1: sounds really alien to me. The the bummer of this
Speaker 1: is all these cases where where this has been challenged. Um.
Speaker 1: The examples that come forward are all examples in which
Speaker 1: criminal activity was taking place. Yes, people trying to get
Speaker 1: out of tickets they got yes, And so there's not
Speaker 1: a lot of empathy for uh, you know, being defensive
Speaker 1: of private property laws when there's a crime taking place.
Speaker 1: So I got tons and tons of emails and messages
Speaker 1: and stuff regarding this, and you know, it kind of
Speaker 1: puts you in that whole like have versus have not
Speaker 1: type of mindset like yeah, screw those guys. They're they're
Speaker 1: poaching or bating or whatever. And it's hard to see
Speaker 1: like the appropriate amount of uh, defensive private property. I
Speaker 1: guess what I'm saying. Um. You know, Montana had changed
Speaker 1: its approach based off of a similar circumstances. Guy Guy
Speaker 1: poached and elk Um had it hanging up on private property.
Speaker 1: The warden went past no trustpassing signs, not specifically to
Speaker 1: investigate a crime. But I was just going to talk
Speaker 1: to the landowner and happened to notice a bull elk
Speaker 1: hanging off the meat pole. Um, so there was that
Speaker 1: expectation of privacy there. There were no trustpassing signs. Guy
Speaker 1: wasn't uh technically, I think like in the act of investigating.
Speaker 1: But there's the evidence right there. And the workaround from
Speaker 1: everybody who's been emailing me is like, well, can't the
Speaker 1: county judge just get better and more efficient at issuing
Speaker 1: search warrants? Is that a possibility? Dave? You know, I don't.
Speaker 1: I'm not one to to critique how judges issue search warrants.
Speaker 1: I've seen them. You know, search warrants can issue be
Speaker 1: issued pretty quickly. You do have to still have probable
Speaker 1: cause that that something occurred, and you have to be
Speaker 1: able to you. We really in this country, and I
Speaker 1: think rightfully so protect personal liberties. And it's not necessarily
Speaker 1: just about private property, but it's about personal liberty and um,
Speaker 1: a right to not be subjected to an unlawful search
Speaker 1: or seizure of property. I mean, it's it's a founder
Speaker 1: it's the Fourth Amendment, it's a foundational amendment. It's it's
Speaker 1: in every single state constitution as well. And UM, so
Speaker 1: it's a pretty when it's a when it's something like that,
Speaker 1: it's a very high bar um you know, to to
Speaker 1: to uh to violate that. So we're not violate that,
Speaker 1: but to show that there's a state interest to um
Speaker 1: to conduct that search or seizure. So you know, I
Speaker 1: look at it a judge and and they take their
Speaker 1: responsibility so seriously and they're not going to just give
Speaker 1: a blanket warrant. There needs to be something there, so
Speaker 1: to say we need to speed up a process or something,
Speaker 1: I mean, that's I'm a little reluctant to go down
Speaker 1: that road just because you know, I think I feel
Speaker 1: pretty strongly personally about you know, some of the the
Speaker 1: personal liberties spelled out in the Constitution and doing everything
Speaker 1: we can with the judicial system to protect those, and
Speaker 1: sometimes it creates these these situations you describe where you have, um,
Speaker 1: people that have probably committed a crime that wind up
Speaker 1: getting away with it because the evidence was collected in
Speaker 1: violation of their constitutional rights. And that's that's the system
Speaker 1: we operate under and I think it mostly works. UM.
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, you pose that question, but I would
Speaker 1: personally be yeah, I think. I think our judges do
Speaker 1: and county prosecutors do a pretty darn good job of
Speaker 1: of turning around warrant requests. Um. There. But they're probably
Speaker 1: your exceptions to that where it could be improved. Um,
Speaker 1: but they're usually pretty good about it. So, Dave in
Speaker 1: a in a nutshell here, you're not you don't see this,
Speaker 1: and you're not thinking, Oh, their goals, the their goals,
Speaker 1: the country. Well, I mean it's there. How bad are
Speaker 1: things in Montana since it happened, since since that case happened,
Speaker 1: and and the open fields doctrine was there are limitations
Speaker 1: put on it there? Um, I think New York has limitations.
Speaker 1: I think Mississippi might have some limitations. Uh. You know,
Speaker 1: there are half a dozen states or more that have
Speaker 1: gone a slightly different direction from the U. S. Supreme Court.
Speaker 1: They've interpreted their own state constitution differently. Uh I I haven't.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I haven't seen the substance evidence saying
Speaker 1: that this is. You know that we're seeing increases in
Speaker 1: poaching or it's making it harder for law enforcement to
Speaker 1: do their jobs. We wouldn't know, now, would we, Dave,
Speaker 1: Because they can't go look anymore right now. That that's true.
Speaker 1: There could be an illegal There could be an illegal
Speaker 1: deer hanger from every tree back there, Dave. That's the
Speaker 1: thing is too, is like game winds often like uncover
Speaker 1: a violation like on the spot. You know, it's not
Speaker 1: like something that they're they they're they would need a
Speaker 1: search warrant for. They need to be able to react
Speaker 1: like right then. Or they're just like out shooting the
Speaker 1: ship with people and they're like, ye, something's fishy here.
Speaker 1: Well what if it is the case of something small
Speaker 1: like fish? Right? So it's like, I'm pretty sure that
Speaker 1: guy has taken more than his limit. Ye got to
Speaker 1: go get a search warrant. You finally show up, there's
Speaker 1: the scent of beer batter and fry oil. When he
Speaker 1: goes in front of the judge for his search warrant,
Speaker 1: he's like, your honor, I could smell that fry. I
Speaker 1: could smell that fish fry. I know what they're doing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, there's one other thing I think it's important.
Speaker 1: They're things like migratory birds. So you know, doves, ducks, geese,
Speaker 1: you know that sort of thing. Uh. In places where
Speaker 1: there's migratory birds. The an interpretation of the of the
Speaker 1: state constitution for the open fields doctrine isn't going to
Speaker 1: impact like the U S Fish and Wildlife Service enforcement
Speaker 1: officers ability to investigate offenses and and UH they would
Speaker 1: be operating under the open fields doctrine established by the
Speaker 1: United States Constitution. So now that doesn't get to your
Speaker 1: deer hanging in a tree thing, uh in in every
Speaker 1: tree example. But for things where there's some concurrent juristic
Speaker 1: action over species management, like migratory birds, which are you know,
Speaker 1: obviously uh covered by the Migratory Bird Treaty Act federal
Speaker 1: authority with this, this is where it gets confusing for me,
Speaker 1: and where I think it adds another layer of complexity
Speaker 1: is because now you have a state that may be
Speaker 1: making a different interpretation of the open fields doctrine pursue
Speaker 1: it to their state constitution than the than the US Constitution,
Speaker 1: and you have different law enforcement agencies operating under different
Speaker 1: jurisdictions that that are responding to different case law. So
Speaker 1: you could have an instance where a Tennessee game warden
Speaker 1: might not be able to walk into a field under
Speaker 1: this under this do uh under this new interpretation, but
Speaker 1: a US Fish and Wildlife Service officer could still do
Speaker 1: so mm hmm potentially, which makes it confusing. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: like reflexibly a status quo guy when it comes to
Speaker 1: stuff like this, Like I don't you know, I've have
Speaker 1: spent my whole life under the knowledge that, like some
Speaker 1: dude from the A t F can't just show up
Speaker 1: and want to dig through your gun cabinet to make
Speaker 1: sure you haven't cut your twelve gage shotgun barrel too short, Right,
Speaker 1: You just get used to that reality. But you know,
Speaker 1: when I was growing up and we're always breaking rules
Speaker 1: all the time, Uh, we spent a lot of time
Speaker 1: on private land really hoping a game warden didn't show
Speaker 1: up because we found ourselves in a compromise position, right,
Speaker 1: And I think that if from my perspective, man if
Speaker 1: I had known that that just wasn't gonna happen, I
Speaker 1: just feel like things would have gone even a little
Speaker 1: more off the rails now and and and that that's
Speaker 1: the question that you kind of come down to, is
Speaker 1: we know there's not that many game wardens, we know
Speaker 1: there's a lot of big chunks private property. We know
Speaker 1: there's a lot of hunters and anglers out there during
Speaker 1: the seasons. Yeah, they need to be able to be
Speaker 1: efficient with their time. And the idea is effective, like
Speaker 1: the idea of the game warden showing up is effective
Speaker 1: for people who that sort of thing. And if you
Speaker 1: remove that, what can analogy? Is it effective against the
Speaker 1: people that were breaking laws to begin with? No? But
Speaker 1: you remember we were hunting. Remember we were hunting in
Speaker 1: h South Dakota. Bell scared the ship out of me.
Speaker 1: Also Farmers Cornfield. He's like standing there, Yeah, like tapping
Speaker 1: me on the shoulder. How's the hunting? And the probable
Speaker 1: cause have been nothing? Like I heard a gunshot? Right,
Speaker 1: he could have could have seen some some birds fallen
Speaker 1: out of this guy or something. Yeah, that bird looked
Speaker 1: like it fell illegally, right. Who you know what's funny
Speaker 1: about all of this is you have, uh, the case
Speaker 1: that started this all back in nineteen US Oliver Wendell Holmes,
Speaker 1: Great Oliver Wendell Holmes. Really it's yeah, who's the same
Speaker 1: judge that decided Missouri the holland the Michael Traper Treaty
Speaker 1: upholding that same say he he wrote the opinion, it's
Speaker 1: two paragraphs the entire open fields doctrine and and it
Speaker 1: was really based on prohibition I mean that case was
Speaker 1: based on you know, moonshine, moonshining trade, you know, illegally
Speaker 1: selling moonshine, and uh, everything we know about the old
Speaker 1: open fields doctrine was born out of a case that
Speaker 1: is two paragraphs long an opinion. I've never seen a U. S.
Speaker 1: Supreme Court opinion two paragraphs long, but I just find
Speaker 1: that fascinating. Maybe so, And it's been you know, but
Speaker 1: two paragraphs and and we have this this whole debate
Speaker 1: over and and all of the expansion, most of at
Speaker 1: the federal level, most of the talk about open fields
Speaker 1: doctrine and and how it's been reinterpreted and and or refined,
Speaker 1: that how it operates. It's really been around uh, illegal
Speaker 1: drug use, marijuana fields, things like it's it worked. Talking
Speaker 1: about it in this game context, and it almost feels
Speaker 1: like in some instances, because I'm just thinking about what
Speaker 1: you all were talking about there just a second ago,
Speaker 1: in some ways it feels like trying to fit a
Speaker 1: square peg in around whole like where we're talking about
Speaker 1: in in our world open fields doctrine applying to a
Speaker 1: public trust resource, like how do you manage something that's
Speaker 1: owned by everybody but doesn't know any boundaries, and we're
Speaker 1: trying to apply the rules that were established for controlling
Speaker 1: illegal drug trade and alcohol trade during prohibition. I just
Speaker 1: find that fascinating too. We've we've worked it into that system.
Speaker 1: But the open fields doctrine wasn't born out of this
Speaker 1: idea of game warden's being able to walk into fields
Speaker 1: and check and enforced game laws. It was about stopping
Speaker 1: illegal alcohol and drug trade. M hm. Well, I think
Speaker 1: in in Tennessee, one of the cases that that they
Speaker 1: had brought up was this was years ago. Was was
Speaker 1: not fishing game related. It was a guy growing out
Speaker 1: behind his house, and uh, they tried to fight the
Speaker 1: whatever tickets and jail time or whatever that that fella
Speaker 1: received based off the open fields doctrine. It's like it
Speaker 1: wasn't visible from an open field or you know, it
Speaker 1: was it was tucked away. I was like, I'm not
Speaker 1: a dumb guy growing weed. M it wasn't visible from
Speaker 1: the county road. M hm m hmm. I'm just gonna
Speaker 1: make noises like that. But it's like our own Maggie
Speaker 1: Hudlow's writing an article on this right now too, and
Speaker 1: she and I were chatting about it yesterday and and
Speaker 1: she's like, do you think there needs to be another
Speaker 1: law that can like take the space of this if
Speaker 1: it goes away, And and it's like that idea of
Speaker 1: like the need for law is so hard to pin down.
Speaker 1: I think my gut reaction is no. I think what
Speaker 1: we need is people to give a ship in the
Speaker 1: first place and buy into the North American model of
Speaker 1: wildlife management, understand what biologists are saying. Uh, and then
Speaker 1: we don't need a bunch of extra laws. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but some people always like to be naughty. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: they're breaking laws anyway. They don't care about that. It
Speaker 1: doesn't matter what the right from a European standpoint. And
Speaker 1: this is the only country we've ever been asked to
Speaker 1: show a ticket, you know, yeah, never anywhere else. So
Speaker 1: something's working, guys. You know, that's pretty incredible because I've
Speaker 1: been pretty lucky. I've traveled all over the world, but Appellations.
Speaker 1: I was fishing for trout in those little mountain streams
Speaker 1: and this guy just appeared. I shot myself right, and
Speaker 1: he said if you got and I said, yea, yeah,
Speaker 1: I've done everything right. And then he started feeding fish
Speaker 1: with some like fish pellets, and I thought well, no,
Speaker 1: I'm not catching anything here, and they were huge fish.
Speaker 1: And then another time I was hunting for dove that
Speaker 1: wasn't so sexy because I didn't have a license. I've
Speaker 1: been out with some people so confessionally fess up. But
Speaker 1: I was with a guy and he said, oh, we'll
Speaker 1: get it sorted in the morning. We didn't, and this
Speaker 1: warden came up and said, I'm really lucky I found you.
Speaker 1: It's like I cover thousands of square miles kind of
Speaker 1: thing and I've got you. And I was hammered. Yeah, no, no,
Speaker 1: he was really good. He was he saw that we
Speaker 1: were honest. He clearly didn't know who I was, but
Speaker 1: he said, no, go and get your ticket and just
Speaker 1: treat this to put it down to experience. Yeah. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: because that's those would be federal right. No, they're migratory. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but I don't think they have federal damn it. They're
Speaker 1: they're migratory bird, but they do have federal over So
Speaker 1: did you chuck it up to you being a knowing European. Well,
Speaker 1: now it's with a very new knowing Americans, so that's
Speaker 1: no excuse. We can't get away with that. It was
Speaker 1: pretty entertaining trip actually, and yeah, because we sat we
Speaker 1: shot a lot of doves and we sat down and
Speaker 1: we're tucking into him with all the young kids that
Speaker 1: evening and all the all the grown ups weren't really
Speaker 1: eating them, and I thought this is a bit odd.
Speaker 1: And then they got out big fat, juicy steaks. Learned
Speaker 1: a lesson here, but it was good. It's good that
Speaker 1: you know you've got a system there that actually works.
Speaker 1: All right, Daved, will let you go. Man, alright, Hey,
Speaker 1: I appreciate it. Yeah, appreciate you coming on and providing
Speaker 1: some clarity there. I like it better when you just
Speaker 1: really oversimplify things and make it seem super alarming. But
Speaker 1: that's not what I do, though, you know. I like
Speaker 1: it better when one well, you guys are the ones
Speaker 1: that are supposed I'm just supposed to provide the factual
Speaker 1: legal information, and you guys are supposed to make it hyperbolic. Right,
Speaker 1: that's the way. But that's what I was trying to do.
Speaker 1: I was trying to make a yuperboling. I got shot down.
Speaker 1: You're trying to get me to make it hyperbolling. I
Speaker 1: want you back me up, man, I want to I
Speaker 1: want you to have my back on the hyperbole. All right,
Speaker 1: thanks a lot, Dave. Good luck with you. Thanks, I'm
Speaker 1: sure it sounds good. Okay, one more thing before we
Speaker 1: get into before we get into all things all things
Speaker 1: robbed here. Um, So this May it's May second, dropped
Speaker 1: like this is right now? Is May second? So okay,
Speaker 1: Our new book, Outdoor Kids in an Inside World releases
Speaker 1: May third, ships on May three. If you so, we
Speaker 1: have a special thing right now you can do, but
Speaker 1: you gotta hustle. You gotta do it right now. If
Speaker 1: you buy the book right now, if you're listening on
Speaker 1: May second, Monday, if you buy the book right now,
Speaker 1: you can scoop on over uh to the meat eater
Speaker 1: dot com. So bible, come ay second, scoot down over
Speaker 1: to the meater dot com. You'll find an announcement there
Speaker 1: will take you to a page where you can enter
Speaker 1: your purchase information. Doesn't matter where you about damn booked from.
Speaker 1: You'll enter that purchase information and you will get a
Speaker 1: free fifty page resource guide email to you. So we
Speaker 1: built when we're working on the book, Brody Knight built
Speaker 1: a fifth what was gonna be like a fifty page
Speaker 1: appendix of resource guides about all everything you need to
Speaker 1: know about the nitty gritty stuff, the nitty gritty on
Speaker 1: outdoor kids. So the book itself, Outdoor Kids in an
Speaker 1: Inside World, covers like introductory materials, UM. It covers hunting, fishing, gardening, foraging, um,
Speaker 1: like bringing the out doors inside at home? What's that camping?
Speaker 1: Camping covers all this stuff about like questions, parents have anxieties,
Speaker 1: parents have suggestions, stories from my own experiences raising three
Speaker 1: outdoor kids. Right, everything's in there. But we also built
Speaker 1: this this fifty page appendix which was like gear recommendations,
Speaker 1: resources like the nitty gritty tips and details about stuff
Speaker 1: to go how to help yourself on this journey of
Speaker 1: getting your kids outside, which is a pain in the ass. Yep,
Speaker 1: it's hard. This will this will speed things up for
Speaker 1: people that are like asking questions about how to do
Speaker 1: anything outside with kids. Um, it's like a whole damn
Speaker 1: extra book. So the extra book. And what we're doing
Speaker 1: is I yeah, what we're doing is we're giving it away,
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Speaker 1: your information and you get the feet the fifty page
Speaker 1: resource guide smoking deal. Yeah, and the books phenomenal. If
Speaker 1: I don't say so myself, he did pretty good on
Speaker 1: this one. Yeah. I mean, I think it's I just
Speaker 1: think it's timely, and it's it's informed by so many
Speaker 1: The other thing is it's informed by so many questions
Speaker 1: that come in here from parents of young kids all
Speaker 1: the time. Discussion just like all the stuff, you know,
Speaker 1: uh yeah, what happens? You know, like what are your
Speaker 1: thoughts on if you for a kid to like see
Speaker 1: an animal die when they're really young, Like, how do
Speaker 1: you handle that? What about when kids don't want to
Speaker 1: eat wild game? At what age should you let them
Speaker 1: start shooting firearms? When should they be able to shoot
Speaker 1: firearms without um parental guidance? How to get him? How
Speaker 1: to get him rigged up for fishing? Why are they
Speaker 1: such a pain and he has to go camping with? Yeah?
Speaker 1: What kind of gear to buy them? What to take
Speaker 1: them hunting for when they're, you know, first getting into it,
Speaker 1: What to fish for when they're first getting into it,
Speaker 1: when they come back without their mittens. What probably happened
Speaker 1: to their mittens. You're gonna go buy a new pair,
Speaker 1: and that's what you're gonna do. Why. Oh, there, day
Speaker 1: my boy Matthew, we're checking some beaver traps and he
Speaker 1: on the day we're setting walks in over the top
Speaker 1: of his rubber boots. On the day we're checking walks
Speaker 1: in over the top of his rubber boots. And I
Speaker 1: asked him, not thinking how to get an answer, why
Speaker 1: do you keep walking in over your boots? And he said,
Speaker 1: I don't like to look down. He had a good reason,
Speaker 1: meaning he's not monitoring where the water is because he
Speaker 1: doesn't He likes to apparently look more forward. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: basically you got a plan on that happening every time.
Speaker 1: The same kid also laid this on me. Uh, I
Speaker 1: was blaming something on him, and he's said, it's not
Speaker 1: my fault. I forgot, And I was like, no, forgetting
Speaker 1: counts as your fault. It's like that's bucketed under fault.
Speaker 1: You know that's not it's not like a defense. Forgetting
Speaker 1: is your fault. My kid says, it's not my fault.
Speaker 1: I got distracted. Yeah, somebod needs to make like a
Speaker 1: chart it says like fault and then it's like a
Speaker 1: family tree. But then under fault is forgot distracted. I
Speaker 1: didn't give a ship like like all the like all
Speaker 1: the reasons that you don't do what you're supposed to do.
Speaker 1: You know what I do. If I had a pile
Speaker 1: of kids that need to learn how to fish, please
Speaker 1: I had written the chapter, I'd buy that TRCP fishing
Speaker 1: trip with Pete Alonso, Like Uncle Pete's got covered. That's
Speaker 1: good idea. Put that in the book, a short book.
Speaker 1: Uh so check that out Outdoor Kids in an Inside
Speaker 1: World available everywhere. Books are sold right now, go and
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Speaker 1: at average transition. Yeah, I've got four yeah, one four teen,
Speaker 1: three girls and a boy. Yeah one of them still
Speaker 1: live with you. Now they're all that well one yeah,
Speaker 1: the others are all doing their own thing. Now. The
Speaker 1: oldest ones was seriously into a hunting Yeah. Yeah, that's good.
Speaker 1: But she's an artist as well, so she does a
Speaker 1: lot of bronze arts. So she shoots them, eats them,
Speaker 1: and then turns them into pieces of art. That's wonderful.
Speaker 1: So again, this is a robbed gearing to talk about
Speaker 1: your business. First Spartan Precision, so I set up my
Speaker 1: backgrounds climbing. That was really my sort of big thing
Speaker 1: when I was younger, because it's very difficult to get
Speaker 1: into hunting in the UK and we can get into
Speaker 1: that later, but I set up Spartan Precision because of
Speaker 1: my climbing background. I wanted lightweight equipment that was modular
Speaker 1: because everything I carry was on my back. So if
Speaker 1: I could make a tripod or a bipod that would
Speaker 1: do other jobs as well, lightweight and make it well,
Speaker 1: it's sort of I thought it had a big advantage.
Speaker 1: And look, there was nothing genius about what we did.
Speaker 1: I was formerly in an aviation business. We bought the
Speaker 1: nose of Concorde. That kind of explains all the slick,
Speaker 1: slick engineering, the nose of the serial number six, which
Speaker 1: never actually flew. It was assimilated, it was it done
Speaker 1: twice the hours of every other Concorde because they checked
Speaker 1: it for cracks or damage. And we turned it into
Speaker 1: a piece of art which is still sitting in Oxford
Speaker 1: Aerodrome somewhere. Spanked a load of cash on it, so
Speaker 1: that was a huge waste probably, but it made me
Speaker 1: see where I could go because we set the Concorde
Speaker 1: on an Olympus engine bearing the Olympus being the engine
Speaker 1: that powered Concorde, and the guy that covered it up
Speaker 1: and used two clamshells and rare earth magnets at these
Speaker 1: tiny little fucking things, I mean dinky and they had
Speaker 1: like sixteen key or what thirty pounds of pull on them.
Speaker 1: And I said, chip Man, can you make be a
Speaker 1: bipod that sticks on my rifle with one of those?
Speaker 1: And that was the end of my genius. So I
Speaker 1: can't really take more credit than that. But dead thing though,
Speaker 1: sticks those Yeah, it's kind of amazing, Like when you
Speaker 1: hold it up there to that little socket, it's like
Speaker 1: anti my pod on my rifle. Till I started using
Speaker 1: that thing. Well, yeah, because I used to you in
Speaker 1: the old days, when you do use those out, who's
Speaker 1: the kind of they're like the first ones out and things. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you'd be going through some older children hold just like that,
Speaker 1: things like it always comes out hanging on exactly, and mentally,
Speaker 1: when you're like a jillion miles into your walk, you're
Speaker 1: kind of thinking of the things that you could just
Speaker 1: leave on the trail. Yeah. Yeah, So I used to
Speaker 1: take a lot of people hunting, and I had one
Speaker 1: of those Harry Spi pods on my rifle, but I
Speaker 1: got it's a great tool. You know, I'm not knocking it,
Speaker 1: but it's just once you set the shooting it, yeah, once,
Speaker 1: but the springs can make noise and all sorts of things.
Speaker 1: I just didn't like clutter underneath the real estate. So
Speaker 1: I took a Swedish client into shoot a Roebuck once
Speaker 1: I'd taken the leap i iPod off, and he wasn't
Speaker 1: comfortable making the shot. And I'm not the type of
Speaker 1: people that the person that's pushing people to make a shot,
Speaker 1: And I said, look, if you're not comfortable, mate, skip it.
Speaker 1: Well that's not said that. What I do is I
Speaker 1: see what exactly is the problem anyway? That's that was
Speaker 1: really the birthplace. So it was it was. It was
Speaker 1: a sort of mix of climbing and hunting and all
Speaker 1: of those things, and a bit of aviations behind it.
Speaker 1: That really was the birthplace. As spartan and I gave
Speaker 1: up a very lucrative business in aviation, sort of got
Speaker 1: divorced from my dear old business partner, which was far
Speaker 1: more ugly than getting divorced from my wife, but that's
Speaker 1: another story. And then got in a little boat and
Speaker 1: started paddling hard and that was We're in our ninth
Speaker 1: year now. Yeah. Yeah, nearly sunk a few times on
Speaker 1: the way, but we just managed to keep our noses
Speaker 1: above water. And this is where it's at the eyes.
Speaker 1: You know, we're in the worst bloody country to be
Speaker 1: making shooting stuff by a country mile. You know, it's
Speaker 1: just crazy. Explain that ext We'll first tell people how
Speaker 1: to find how to find You guys are really they
Speaker 1: combine from you guys, sparting, precision equipment, sparing pursuing equipment.
Speaker 1: But I was default javel On, which is the original bipod. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and now there's a family of bipods and a family
Speaker 1: of tripods, and they're all modular. It's a bit like
Speaker 1: Lego for the hunter. You know, you build what you need.
Speaker 1: We're not dictating. I mean, I'm not in love with tripods.
Speaker 1: We make tripods, but you can run them as bipod
Speaker 1: squad systems, PENT systems. I'm not saying I'm going to
Speaker 1: go to the woods with the PENT system, but I'm
Speaker 1: going to go to the woods on probably two legs
Speaker 1: and the work I would do in the UK and
Speaker 1: hunt on two legs all the time because short distances
Speaker 1: and it's quick and we're managing, dear, we're not as
Speaker 1: in standing up standing, sharing, and most of it well
Speaker 1: I'm going to be doing in the UK is going
Speaker 1: to be standing work anyway. It's woodland and we're after
Speaker 1: hello and right right, dear, really, and the whole ethos
Speaker 1: of what we're doing is to try and shoot as
Speaker 1: many as we possibly can because and we've lost the
Speaker 1: rice already. I mean, there's just too many of them.
Speaker 1: He's gone crazy over there. Yeah, I'm gonna set it
Speaker 1: up like the way that annoy I'm gonna set it
Speaker 1: up in a way that annoys people with exposure to Europe. Right,
Speaker 1: it would be this. We talked about Daniel Boone all
Speaker 1: the time. Let's take Danna. We're talking about Robin Hood
Speaker 1: and Daniel Boone. Okay, Daniel Boone's ancestors came from England.
Speaker 1: They almost certainly we're not hunters. When Daniel Boone got
Speaker 1: when his family came to America, you know, they wound
Speaker 1: up in Pennsylvania and Boone started becoming a big time hunter.
Speaker 1: And what it was he could just kind of roam
Speaker 1: around willy nilly out in the woods hunting deer um.
Speaker 1: This is prior to how deer management in the US
Speaker 1: was codified into the law. But there was just this
Speaker 1: expectation that deer that were out on the open land,
Speaker 1: out on the unclaimed lands, we're free for the taking.
Speaker 1: There's no regulatory structure in place, but you could own
Speaker 1: a firearm and go out and hunt deer on open
Speaker 1: unclaimed lands on the frontier. Okay. This stood in stark
Speaker 1: composition to what many Americans referred to as the European model,
Speaker 1: in which deer are owned by the landowners the king's deer.
Speaker 1: Most of the deer are live on large private estates.
Speaker 1: The landed gentry, who controls and owns these estates, sets
Speaker 1: the agenda for deer management um. And you get into
Speaker 1: the to understand this, you get into like the myth
Speaker 1: of robin Hood right where he would go out and hunt, okay,
Speaker 1: and shoot the king's deer in order to feed the
Speaker 1: poor and his him doing the was a capital offense,
Speaker 1: meaning you used to be that you know you could.
Speaker 1: There's a rich history of stuff, and you just go
Speaker 1: look all over and find books about and stuff that
Speaker 1: the land managers used to be able to actually set
Speaker 1: a type of leg hold trap meant to catch a man, okay,
Speaker 1: And you'd set these out to catch poachers. You could
Speaker 1: get the death penalty for poaching. You could have an
Speaker 1: eye gouged out, a hand cut off, or shooting the
Speaker 1: king's rabbits. Right, it was like wildlife was a was
Speaker 1: the property of the wealthy exactly right. Well, okay, then
Speaker 1: why do here's the thing, why does everybody get so piste?
Speaker 1: And it's not it's not Europeans to get pissed. It's
Speaker 1: Americans who go hunt in Europe that's spent a lot
Speaker 1: of time in Europe. They could all been out of
Speaker 1: shap and they're like, you don't know your old blip.
Speaker 1: What's the word punt bloviating? Well, it's I live on
Speaker 1: Ashdown Forest right. Ashdown Forest is the old private hunting
Speaker 1: ground of Henry the eighth, and you can still see
Speaker 1: the perimeters in places that there's a twenty seven mile
Speaker 1: walled private hunting ground with a ditch dug all the
Speaker 1: way around and a pale fence shaped in so wildlife
Speaker 1: could run in and couldn't get out. And then there's
Speaker 1: little villages around it called hatches, which are the old
Speaker 1: entrances onto the forest. And what you said is exactly right.
Speaker 1: The people that lived on those forests couldn't hunt anything.
Speaker 1: They weren't allowed to and if they got coolt it
Speaker 1: was a pretty yeah, it wasn't going to be it
Speaker 1: wasn't going to end. Well, um, we don't have public land.
Speaker 1: We have public land, but no public land that you
Speaker 1: can hunt on. So if you're little Jimmy living in
Speaker 1: the middle of London, there's no bloody chance in a
Speaker 1: million years you're going to get the opportunity to play
Speaker 1: like we do. It just doesn't happen. So what you
Speaker 1: get is you get people like me, lucky bastards. There's
Speaker 1: no landowners that won't have a dear able and then
Speaker 1: go Rob, come and help me manage the deer, or
Speaker 1: you get stinking wealthy people, big landowners that manage it.
Speaker 1: So what's happened in essence in the UK is hunting
Speaker 1: is an elitist game. You know, it's it's absolute abstract elitism.
Speaker 1: You're not going to get into it unless you're channeled
Speaker 1: through the directions I've said. The only other way is
Speaker 1: if you become a professional hunter. So we have colleges,
Speaker 1: we've got three of them in the UK where you
Speaker 1: can become a gamekeeper, deer stock or whatever, and they're
Speaker 1: pretty intense courses. And that's a formal degree, a formal degree,
Speaker 1: college trained, formal. You come out with the qualification. I
Speaker 1: wouldn't say it's like going to university, persads. You go
Speaker 1: to college and you spend three years doing it either
Speaker 1: in fisheries, deer management, bird management, whatever. So they come
Speaker 1: out pretty well qualified and they come out pretty knowledgeable
Speaker 1: in their subject matters for sure. But most people in
Speaker 1: the UK they spend thousands of hours in their back
Speaker 1: garden shoot in air guns, twelve ft pound air guns,
Speaker 1: and they don't progress beyond that. Right now, they'll spank
Speaker 1: a lot of money on these air guns because they
Speaker 1: never get the opportunity to go out and hunt. Now,
Speaker 1: these air guns there, twelve ft pound should be lucky
Speaker 1: if you killed a bloody squirrel with one. So it's
Speaker 1: you've got over here, from a European or UK perspective,
Speaker 1: a huge playground right which is absolutely awesome in every regard.
Speaker 1: I'm sure it's got its issues, I'm sure it's got
Speaker 1: its problems, but from a European perspective, it's pretty epic
Speaker 1: what you've got going on. So I want to get
Speaker 1: into I want to get into the gun law thing
Speaker 1: for for for a minute, but I want to ask
Speaker 1: no question prior to that. Another difference. And again we're
Speaker 1: talking right now, like we're talking with someone from the UK.
Speaker 1: We're talking about the UK. So this is this is
Speaker 1: installment one of the euro Report. And in all honesty,
Speaker 1: the people that get riled up about our typification of
Speaker 1: Europe never cite the UK as an example of where
Speaker 1: we're wrong. They talked about other places. Yeah, but you know,
Speaker 1: begin lumping them all together now, So trying not to
Speaker 1: do that focusing on the UK. One thing, though, I
Speaker 1: could walk into a butcher shop in the UK and
Speaker 1: see ducks with shotgun pellet holes in them. Explain that.
Speaker 1: So it's the It's completely different. So in the UK
Speaker 1: you have professional hunters right managing deer, shooting a lot
Speaker 1: of deer. Right, All of that venison or whether it's
Speaker 1: birds or whatever, can go straight back into the food chain.
Speaker 1: So unlike you guys were allowed to sell it to
Speaker 1: game dealers, who then in turn will send it and
Speaker 1: sell it to restaurants, pubs, et cetera, because because the
Speaker 1: landowner owns it and the restaurant. There's a restaurant in
Speaker 1: London called Rules. Look that one up. I think seventeen
Speaker 1: seventy six, oldest restaurant in London. That's it. They started
Speaker 1: it right when we started whooping you guys ass Probably well,
Speaker 1: but no game game is frequently eaten in the UK
Speaker 1: and sold is it pretty popular with I mean, Presulia
Speaker 1: has been like wild shot ducks are popular with people
Speaker 1: who would never shoot a duck. Well, the problem is
Speaker 1: we're probably twenty years ahead of the game in a
Speaker 1: bad way from where you lads are. That's what I
Speaker 1: would say. So when I was growing up, if I
Speaker 1: took a rabbit or a duck round to my neighbors,
Speaker 1: she thanks, thanks very much, I'm going to have that.
Speaker 1: If you did it now they go, well the funk
Speaker 1: are you doing? Yeah, we've gone We've lost it. And
Speaker 1: you could blame supermarkets. You could blame the British Broadcasting
Speaker 1: Corporation for that. We could talk have a whole subject
Speaker 1: matter on the BBC. But more well, it's a public corporation.
Speaker 1: We pay for it as a taxpayer. Um My father
Speaker 1: was edited to Radio Times many years ago. And BBC
Speaker 1: used to be a brilliant corporation. Now it's a tiny
Speaker 1: little minority sort of dictating rules and REGs or trying
Speaker 1: to steer us in a certain direction that I frankly
Speaker 1: really discussed me like it's over politicized. Yeah, yeah, completely biased.
Speaker 1: I mean they employ people that are openly biased. And
Speaker 1: I said, I spend my life right into them, saying
Speaker 1: I pay for this as a public corporation. Please, guys,
Speaker 1: can we have some unbiased information. It's some impartial information,
Speaker 1: and it's I'm pissing in the wind. No, no, no,
Speaker 1: you know, I'll tell you, man, I don't pay for it.
Speaker 1: But I hear those guys, and sometimes they get me
Speaker 1: a little. Yeah, I mean we get like anti hunting
Speaker 1: articles in the media and things like that. But yeah,
Speaker 1: over there, it's like the mainstream media. It's enormous and frankly,
Speaker 1: population probably don't give us screw either way, right, they
Speaker 1: just don't care. But the BBC and other entities have
Speaker 1: decided that hunting is not for us. And again, you know,
Speaker 1: I sort of get it because so many its easy
Speaker 1: to hate something you don't get a chance to play
Speaker 1: at Oh, so I've taken vegans out. I've taken vegetarians out.
Speaker 1: I love it because I like to enter into a debate.
Speaker 1: So we'll come out hunting with me for a day
Speaker 1: and then go and spend it down a fucking chicken farm,
Speaker 1: and then you tell me what's what's worse? Right now,
Speaker 1: we all know as hunters it doesn't always end well,
Speaker 1: and mistakes happen. We have to live with that. But
Speaker 1: would I rather be a fellow deer on ashdown forest
Speaker 1: or a chicken just about to be spanked out to KFC?
Speaker 1: I know what I'd rather take? What chances that? Alright? So, uh, guns,
Speaker 1: what does it take? Let's say you had Let's say
Speaker 1: here you are and somehow your neighbor says, um, here
Speaker 1: here the situation you're you're you? Yeah. Your neighbor says, oh, Rob,
Speaker 1: just so happens. I got a pretty sizeable chunkle land.
Speaker 1: If you want to go out there and shoot a
Speaker 1: few deer, have at it? Um And he says, The
Speaker 1: thing is, I don't. I don't have any guns. I
Speaker 1: don't know. You have to figure out and end out
Speaker 1: what do you do? That bit's easy, That bit probably
Speaker 1: is easier for us than it is for you. So
Speaker 1: I've got an open what you call an open license.
Speaker 1: It's easier than we go down to the we go
Speaker 1: down to the hardware store about a gun. I've got
Speaker 1: a gun. So you're telling me when I said you
Speaker 1: through you because you're thinking about you. Yeah, okay, Little Jimmy,
Speaker 1: Little Jimmy, Jimmy and London's Jimmy and London. He he
Speaker 1: winds up that his second cousins, neighbor whatever says, if
Speaker 1: little Jimmy is so interested in reading books about hunters
Speaker 1: and whatnot, he ought to come out and get a deer.
Speaker 1: So little Jimmy isn't for a tough ride, right, a
Speaker 1: long tough ride, if he really wants to do that.
Speaker 1: And let's say also that despite his name, little Jimmy
Speaker 1: is eighteen, right, and little Jimmy's eighteen. Well, now he
Speaker 1: can legally fire a full ball. I think as a kid,
Speaker 1: you're not even legally allowed to unless it's under certain protocol. Um.
Speaker 1: It's it's absolutely driven to not provide you a arm.
Speaker 1: Can you point warbo a real quick full ball, like
Speaker 1: like anything like a three o three or something, not
Speaker 1: a ring fire. There's different high powdered rifle we'd call it.
Speaker 1: But little Jimmy has got basically if he's in London,
Speaker 1: he's I'm almost certainly not going to get a fararm
Speaker 1: certificate for deer hunting anyway because the London authorities hate
Speaker 1: firearms full stop. It will be a huge challenge. He's
Speaker 1: got to have the land approval, as you say, if
Speaker 1: he's got a patch of land, then they're going to
Speaker 1: want him to go and do a level one and
Speaker 1: level two deer stalking course. That's pretty major. You know,
Speaker 1: that's probably six months of hard study to get it.
Speaker 1: That's not taking that online safety course should you shoot
Speaker 1: someone right? No, it's pretty intense. And the and the
Speaker 1: thing is getting a firearms like Look, there's seventy plus
Speaker 1: seventy million people in the UK, of which I'm gonna
Speaker 1: I might be slightly out, but so I think it's
Speaker 1: a hundred and fifty five thousand firearms license holders. Right
Speaker 1: of that hundred and fifty five thousand, I would imagine
Speaker 1: less than a third or actually out in the woods hunting.
Speaker 1: Most of them are be rain using a busy range
Speaker 1: in places like that. But you need to have a reason.
Speaker 1: You've got to have a reason. You've got to have
Speaker 1: a reason to own a firearm. It's really really challenging,
Speaker 1: you know. I to see you guys and I look
Speaker 1: at that with green eyed envy and think it's so
Speaker 1: cool what you can do over here. Right, But again
Speaker 1: I'm getting back to the fact it's why people hate hunting.
Speaker 1: We're not allowing anybody to partake in what we're doing
Speaker 1: unless you've got a spank load of cash. So they
Speaker 1: all spend thousands of quid on a air gun in
Speaker 1: their back garden plinking tin cans that would hardly kill
Speaker 1: a squirrel, and they spend a lot of money on it.
Speaker 1: There'll be hundreds of thousands of people in the UK
Speaker 1: with air guns, which in not in Scotland it's different,
Speaker 1: but in the UK you don't need a firearms license
Speaker 1: if it's under twelve foot pounds are using. Oh, there's
Speaker 1: a low, there's bs A, there's um, there's a Swedish
Speaker 1: coming that makes some pretty cool stuff. But they spend
Speaker 1: a fortune shooting games. Yeah, they have some gammos as well,
Speaker 1: but a lot of people will spend a lot of
Speaker 1: money on that because they can't get firearms license and
Speaker 1: what like have you. This is the digression, but at
Speaker 1: with the with these souped up air guns, like at
Speaker 1: fifty meters, what's a good gun. But they're not souped up.
Speaker 1: We're not allowed to have a soup. If you have
Speaker 1: a souped up air gun, then you're going to go
Speaker 1: down the firearms channel. So if your ag gun, he's
Speaker 1: over twelve foot pounds, which is going to give you,
Speaker 1: let me guess him six hundred and fifty ft per
Speaker 1: second for two two and seven fifty for one seven,
Speaker 1: you know you are running out of steam pretty goddamn quick.
Speaker 1: You're not gonna get My kid has a gamble air gun. Now,
Speaker 1: it's yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. I mean they're
Speaker 1: they're legal to use for a big game, and you
Speaker 1: got to get geared up to cock that thing. Man,
Speaker 1: he's got to like stand up. But I mean it's powerful. Yeah,
Speaker 1: now we don't have we do have those, but again
Speaker 1: you'll fall into the full ball firearms thing. So it's
Speaker 1: and me personally, I couldn't be asked with it, so
Speaker 1: I just moved into climbing instead, and then later got
Speaker 1: into hunting because I knew channels I could get into.
Speaker 1: So do you have the permits. Now I've got permits. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I've done a lot of hunting in the UK,
Speaker 1: let's say, dear management. But that's because I knew the
Speaker 1: right people and slid under the doorway, slipped in there
Speaker 1: and never exited. So you do you have fire arms
Speaker 1: in your possession at home? Yeah? Yeah, I do. I'm
Speaker 1: allowed to. But I'm a rarity, right, I'm not talking shotguns.
Speaker 1: Shotguns completely different thing because everybody's into clay pigeon shooting,
Speaker 1: so there'll be a lot of people with shotguns, but
Speaker 1: full ball rifles go on. Then I got to remember
Speaker 1: this question when you get around. Can they shoot slugs
Speaker 1: out of the shock? No? Not anymore. We can't hunt
Speaker 1: with bose. We can't shoot slugs with a shotgun. No, no,
Speaker 1: we're not allowed hunt with bose because they're deemed inefficient.
Speaker 1: Or there's something. There's something. This is a rabbit hole
Speaker 1: that I might not be educated to answer, but I
Speaker 1: think there's something. In the eighties, there was an old law,
Speaker 1: correct me if I'm wrong with don't This was a
Speaker 1: medieval law that somebody could shoot a drunken Scotsman in
Speaker 1: Wales or something with a U bow made in the
Speaker 1: made in a certain place, and I think somebody actually
Speaker 1: tried it right, but they got him because his U
Speaker 1: bow was made in Spain. You'll have to look that up.
Speaker 1: But it's just yeah, but anyway, it was in the details.
Speaker 1: Bring let's just but it's yeah. It's both were very
Speaker 1: limited to what we have I think, and it's best.
Speaker 1: It's very good in the UK. Will defend that. When
Speaker 1: it's well run and well managed. I think it's extremely good.
Speaker 1: What's the deer hunting and how we how we go
Speaker 1: about it? My challenge, my personal challenges. So many people
Speaker 1: don't get the opportunity to do it, and I think
Speaker 1: that's pretty rare. They're even aware of the now. I
Speaker 1: don't because it's not promoted harder and we don't have
Speaker 1: a single entity that's really promoting hunting to my mind
Speaker 1: in a very good way. There's lots of different entities,
Speaker 1: all too busy taking chunks out of each other rather
Speaker 1: than thinking what's the common goal here? So I guess
Speaker 1: how often this would be a good way to kind
Speaker 1: of sum it up, would be like how often have
Speaker 1: you spoken with people who are like, oh, I wanted
Speaker 1: to get into hunting? But I couldn't figure out how
Speaker 1: that would happen quite a lot, but not as much
Speaker 1: as you de might imagine because it's so off base.
Speaker 1: It's so they don't live in Montana, they don't live
Speaker 1: in a place where there's a big land mass and
Speaker 1: they can see the opportunities, so it's not really promoted. Well.
Speaker 1: I think there would be a lot of people that
Speaker 1: would want to get into it. Certainly deer management and
Speaker 1: deer deer hunting in the UK has grown a lot
Speaker 1: in the last few years. There's a lot more people
Speaker 1: getting into it. But it needs the dollar, you know,
Speaker 1: and that's the only way. Really the history of bird
Speaker 1: shooting or there is unreal. I mean the amount of
Speaker 1: pheasants raised in the UK hundreds of thousands, hundreds of thousands,
Speaker 1: and again that's a real rich man sport, you know.
Speaker 1: That's it's yeah, and that's that's going to change. I
Speaker 1: think you'll see that die in the next ten years
Speaker 1: because because governments and controls and anti shooting, anti hunting entities, Well,
Speaker 1: bring me back in ten years. I'd be amazed if
Speaker 1: they're still doing big bird days. You get away with
Speaker 1: the walked up days, I'm sure, But they're really hitting
Speaker 1: the grouse shooters in Scotland, very driven shoots. Yeah, the
Speaker 1: driven shoots coming after him on what on what grounds?
Speaker 1: You tell me? I don't know, Yeah, yeah, yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean we banned fox hunting, they still drag a skin
Speaker 1: or whatever, and thinks it's just it's just those that
Speaker 1: haven't got like to destroy what they're not able to do.
Speaker 1: Do you like anything about the UK? Well, I'm here.
Speaker 1: I've been here since the fifth of Bloody January. Does
Speaker 1: to your questions other than the shorts quick escape down
Speaker 1: to Patagonia which is like Montana fifty years ago, I'm not.
Speaker 1: I'm not a great I like people. Don't get me wrong.
Speaker 1: This is gonna sound coming coming as I got older.
Speaker 1: I just want to be with the right people, and
Speaker 1: I'm very happy on the my own skin. I think
Speaker 1: when I do spend time back in the UK, most
Speaker 1: of it's north of the border, and I spent a
Speaker 1: lot of time up in Scotland because it's just quite
Speaker 1: up there. So we answered your questions, Steve know, I'm
Speaker 1: probably not. There's better places. Yeah. Can we jump back
Speaker 1: to the meat for a second. Yeah, Am I reading
Speaker 1: this rate where it says you don't get it like
Speaker 1: you go out and shoot a deer, Yeah, you don't
Speaker 1: get to keep for yourself. So if I shoot fifty
Speaker 1: deer a year, right that that carcass is not mine.
Speaker 1: That carcass goes straight back to the estate and that
Speaker 1: meat is sold and that's how they make them. So
Speaker 1: there's no cutting off a backstrap. And I'm given a
Speaker 1: few testicles now and again. Are you serious? I'm un
Speaker 1: But they're just like if you go if you do
Speaker 1: a cold deer, I mean they got to give you
Speaker 1: want us for They will give me one if I want.
Speaker 1: If I want venison, I'm not going to starve out.
Speaker 1: But the rules are that venison goes in the larder. Right,
Speaker 1: that's done, and that's off to the off to the
Speaker 1: restaurant after the game. Does I mean we get a
Speaker 1: lot of swedes come over because the thing about the
Speaker 1: UK is you're going to shoot a lot of animals.
Speaker 1: You know, we had we had eight swedes come over
Speaker 1: a couple of years back, pre COVID, and there was
Speaker 1: four of us and I think we shot a hundred
Speaker 1: and twenty deer in two days. That's a lot of work.
Speaker 1: They're not bark side their fellow size. So they're sort
Speaker 1: of big labs kind of thing. But and that's that's
Speaker 1: worth a lot of doubt, that's worth many thousands. So
Speaker 1: and plus the crops. There's a lot of crops down
Speaker 1: in the south. And if you've got a hundred and
Speaker 1: forty deer in your crop, well it's it's gone, isn't it. Yeah.
Speaker 1: What's that word you guys used for when you got
Speaker 1: something from the diaphragm relic? Yeah, so you as the hunter,
Speaker 1: you're doing that again, completely different to what you lads
Speaker 1: to do. Right, we'll leave everything in the skin. Well,
Speaker 1: take out all the green, right, we might all the green,
Speaker 1: all the intestines, diaphragmbar. Yeah, yeah, we might leave the
Speaker 1: heart and the other organs in depending on where you are,
Speaker 1: or we'll take him out. They get hung in the skin,
Speaker 1: they get putting the chiller in the skin, and then
Speaker 1: they go off to the game dealers that way. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Can we walk back to let's say, let's say a
Speaker 1: little Jimmy who's not so little, wants to pursue obtaining
Speaker 1: a firearm, and he goes through that six month course
Speaker 1: and he's obtained the firearm. It's his second cousins, neighbor.
Speaker 1: So we know that he has a purpose and he
Speaker 1: has um what does he have to do in order
Speaker 1: to end up actually hunting arranged? So so basically he'll
Speaker 1: be apprenticed to somebody even after the deer he's done
Speaker 1: the exams and things, how does he find That's the
Speaker 1: challenge When there's only a hundred and fifty five thousand
Speaker 1: firearms license holders and probably less than a third doing it,
Speaker 1: there's an infinite number of people that are queuing up
Speaker 1: to get that opportunity that will never get that opportunity.
Speaker 1: I find that pretty sad. I remember you told me
Speaker 1: earlier though if you um so, can you are there
Speaker 1: estates where you can you know there's a whole kind
Speaker 1: of package deal of staying there and hunting, or can
Speaker 1: you can you find someone who is like a recent
Speaker 1: graduate from one of these deer management programs? Like what
Speaker 1: would this person actually do if they were just completely
Speaker 1: determined to end up a little bit of both? Right?
Speaker 1: So if you show real determination, and like when I
Speaker 1: got out of hunting for a while and got into
Speaker 1: the climbing because of that frustration, and then I managed
Speaker 1: I found a local estate Caldre Estate down the south
Speaker 1: and basically were looking for some helpers. So I would
Speaker 1: help take punters out, clients out, you know, and we
Speaker 1: would call the females right. We wouldn't shoot the bucks
Speaker 1: or anything like that. But I spent years doing that
Speaker 1: kind of things, building up. But it's it's a challenge.
Speaker 1: It's a really difficult thing to get into because there
Speaker 1: isn't any public land, so you have to either go
Speaker 1: through that first channel you said, which is incredibly expensive.
Speaker 1: I can you could arrange to go hunting tomorrow in
Speaker 1: the UK if money is not an issue. But it's
Speaker 1: the same with our fly fishing. You know, you're going
Speaker 1: to spank a lot of money and maybe it's going
Speaker 1: to cost you a thousand bucks for a day, you
Speaker 1: know that kind of figure. You could get less, but
Speaker 1: it's it's going to be that and up really, or
Speaker 1: you just scrub around, find some gamekeepers, help the gamekeepers
Speaker 1: for a year or two and then they might say, well,
Speaker 1: come and shoot a deer. That's it. And what is
Speaker 1: the what is the regulatory structure? Like forget all the
Speaker 1: stuff about getting a firearm having access, Like what's the
Speaker 1: regulatory structure? Could get give me like, give me the
Speaker 1: you guys. I know you guys don't do acreage, but
Speaker 1: expressed for me the land like a large estate or
Speaker 1: a medium estate whatever. How much ground are we talking about?
Speaker 1: So the estates don't tend to be big because there
Speaker 1: isn't a large land mass. A reasonable estate there might
Speaker 1: be three thousand acres pretty big, but I mean the
Speaker 1: one for my dear management. I might be shooting in
Speaker 1: somebody's back garden. You know, they might have a deer issue, right,
Speaker 1: and you could be looking at less than ach and
Speaker 1: Mrs miggins roses are being eaten by the by the row,
Speaker 1: so you've got to go and help Mrs Meiggins. That's
Speaker 1: where an open license comes in handy. So an open
Speaker 1: licensees you're determined whether it's safe to shoot. So unlike
Speaker 1: I think over here you you have to be so
Speaker 1: far from a building before you can take a shot.
Speaker 1: To you, No, this state does. This state doesn't have
Speaker 1: that phone, Dave, No, the state doesn't have This state
Speaker 1: doesn't have a specific distance from building. Right, But you'd
Speaker 1: get into you get into questions of like what might
Speaker 1: be like criminal negligence or something like that, But there's
Speaker 1: not like some states are very specific if you're gonna
Speaker 1: shoot within four fifty of an occupied dwelling, you have
Speaker 1: their written permission from UM, the owner of the structure, right,
Speaker 1: but this date doesn't. This state in particular doesn't have that.
Speaker 1: But there's sort of an understanding of what's okay and
Speaker 1: not okay. Got you So, So in the UK it's
Speaker 1: very different, you know, because there's such a short amount
Speaker 1: of land. You might have deer mucking around in a
Speaker 1: tiny area and you've got to manage that problem. So
Speaker 1: that's probably one thing that we can do, but it's
Speaker 1: really challenging and it's not going to get any easier.
Speaker 1: And the whole thing the reason I'm pleased to be
Speaker 1: here is you don't want to be following what's happening
Speaker 1: in the UK. It's just not sexy. I mean, we
Speaker 1: don't want to go on no, no, it's it's it's
Speaker 1: not sexy at all and it's going to get worse
Speaker 1: than I can see a day where you know, they
Speaker 1: just they'll have professional deer hunters managing deer and the
Speaker 1: public won't even be allowed to do an actual fact
Speaker 1: in Scotland, you might want to look this up here
Speaker 1: and I think somebody's just got a contract of manage
Speaker 1: fifty thousand red deer right in that in the islands.
Speaker 1: Now that's a native species. We've got six species of deer,
Speaker 1: arguably seven, but six species of deer in the UK,
Speaker 1: three of which are native or considered native, and the
Speaker 1: others are non native name the need of one. So
Speaker 1: the native ones are read um Fellow and row Fellow
Speaker 1: aren't truly native. They were bought over by the Normans
Speaker 1: or the Romans, nobody knows, but they've been long enough,
Speaker 1: so they've got the native flag now. And then the
Speaker 1: others are Asian imports. Yeah. So I want to touch
Speaker 1: on the regulatory structure real quick, and just for this case,
Speaker 1: let's go to it that there's a three thousand acre estate. Yeah, um,
Speaker 1: do they the government set down like a season in
Speaker 1: which they can be hunted, or like any kind of
Speaker 1: any kind of rules about how far they can push
Speaker 1: a call? Now there's a seat, you're right seat. There
Speaker 1: are seasons for all the species other than mount Jack,
Speaker 1: because the mount jack a non native and they're normally
Speaker 1: pregnant within three days of getting birth, so they considered
Speaker 1: a pest all the other day. I have a strict
Speaker 1: um period of time in which you're allowed to shoot them.
Speaker 1: If you have a real problem with numbers, you can
Speaker 1: get extensions to see a mund jack gets bred within
Speaker 1: three days. It's normally they're normally pregnant within three days
Speaker 1: of giving birth. Yeah, I wouldn't fly. Yeah, let's disgust, don't.
Speaker 1: I don't think you're thinking about the munt jack. Steve's
Speaker 1: good for jack. Yeah. Yeah, they are crazy little things.
Speaker 1: They're very cool, and they have a row. They bark.
Speaker 1: They call them the bark. Indeed, they said, you might
Speaker 1: think you've got a dog kicking off. They got a
Speaker 1: little little tusks things that are slightly removed about a bit,
Speaker 1: and they fight it. They're pretty aggressive, so they've got
Speaker 1: very thick fat and fur around the next We grew
Speaker 1: up just considering them absolute pest because they eat all
Speaker 1: the flora and fauna. But the continentals love coming over
Speaker 1: and hunting them. They're quite challenging to hunt because they
Speaker 1: never stopped. It was on the move, so you've got
Speaker 1: to be pretty quick on them. Taste bloody good mind
Speaker 1: you zero yeah tiny yeah yeah yeah yeah no, But
Speaker 1: I mean we've we've talked about it because it is
Speaker 1: it's an intriguing animal because it's got so much character.
Speaker 1: You know, who do you refer to as continentals? Like
Speaker 1: everybody that's not in the UK, But what would we be.
Speaker 1: We're not continentals, You're Americans. Yeah, So al right, back
Speaker 1: to this regulatory structure thing, this three thousand acre estate. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's got all three native species. Yeah, let's just focus
Speaker 1: on the native species. So they'll say there is a season, yeah,
Speaker 1: not determined by the landowner. Now, not determined. But that's
Speaker 1: the government controlled thing. And does the government have biologists
Speaker 1: that will do a survey and say, like, you boys
Speaker 1: can shoot X dear on this property to an extent,
Speaker 1: but nothing like you guys do. Yeah, there will be
Speaker 1: some professional biologists that will enter into debates on how
Speaker 1: we manage those populations, but nothing even close to what
Speaker 1: you guys do. I've never in the UK been asked
Speaker 1: to show a firearms license. I've never run into I mean,
Speaker 1: you think of all the hunting right, it's crazy, it's
Speaker 1: crazy that how different it is. But you put a
Speaker 1: lot of money back in you've got those hunting licenses.
Speaker 1: That's tags a lot of it goes back into protecting
Speaker 1: what you've got. I think that's fantastic. With us, it's
Speaker 1: different because the private landowner can spend that money that
Speaker 1: he's made from the venison and they're selling the hunting
Speaker 1: on what everybody were likes, says Cash. What are the
Speaker 1: seasons like, yeah, we there's if you came over to
Speaker 1: the UK, there's always something you can hunt or you've
Speaker 1: got the munch out for a start. That seasons are
Speaker 1: pretty long then compared to what you guys have got
Speaker 1: like it's you know, you might have a few weeks,
Speaker 1: hours will be months. Would you be able to take
Speaker 1: us hunting here? Absolutely? If you want to have a
Speaker 1: crack at that? Yeah, are you? And the thing is
Speaker 1: I could get you. This is the crazy thing. You
Speaker 1: land at Heathrow or Gatwick, you could be hunting within
Speaker 1: an hour of getting off. You know, once you're at
Speaker 1: that airport, it's so and people that freaks people out.
Speaker 1: You know, I take people hunting on this land that
Speaker 1: you can see the middle of London and then you know,
Speaker 1: I think it's crazy, but that's what you have to
Speaker 1: do with small land masses. But yeah, yeah, it's easy.
Speaker 1: Are you required to use a suppressor? Not required, but
Speaker 1: they're easier to get than they are over here, I believe.
Speaker 1: I mean, we did it in a different channel because
Speaker 1: they're professional hunters. We're all death because we're shooting so much. Right,
Speaker 1: so you're shooting like fifty d a year, you're out
Speaker 1: there was a lot. So we got to said this,
Speaker 1: we can we please get old and here a bit.
Speaker 1: So that's how we got the moderators, the suppressors, silents
Speaker 1: or whatever you want to call them. So very rarely
Speaker 1: they're just they're they're way more popular. I can't think
Speaker 1: of a guy that I go hunting with it doesn't
Speaker 1: have a suppressor. Yeah, yeah, imagine in those like when
Speaker 1: you're shooting on small properties, were up, I don't want
Speaker 1: the neighbors here exactly, booms going on exactly. And I
Speaker 1: grew up without suppressors. We all grew up not using them.
Speaker 1: And so the guys are like the next generational for me,
Speaker 1: they'll can't fucking here. So if you were licensed, fully licensed,
Speaker 1: open firearms, licensed, UM, and you lacked a place to
Speaker 1: go hunt, you just find that online and you could pay. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you could find it online. You could pay. There's normally
Speaker 1: people when you're at that level, there's normally people with
Speaker 1: dear problems, and we're quite a rarity, so you'd normally
Speaker 1: find people that want you to help out. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a tiny, tiny sector in a huge population that's
Speaker 1: doing it. So you'll get a call occasionally from someone
Speaker 1: who's got an attack and the rose bushes. Yeah, exactly,
Speaker 1: that's exactly. What's the steps you have to take. I
Speaker 1: just need to deem the area safe to shoot and
Speaker 1: then I can go out and manage that problem hopefully.
Speaker 1: I mean just jumping back. Ashdown Forest is a perfect example.
Speaker 1: We're talking about this private hunting estate. It's only recently
Speaker 1: they allow deer management on that forest. The way they
Speaker 1: manage deer populations on Ashdown Forest road traffic accidents, huge
Speaker 1: numbers of road traffic accidents, and because the conservators decided
Speaker 1: hunting was cruel or not right, they wouldn't allow anybody
Speaker 1: that's six thousand acres of deer just going out of control,
Speaker 1: spiraling out of control that nobody can manage. In the
Speaker 1: last few years they've changed that and I think they've
Speaker 1: got like half a dozen professional deer stalkers in deer
Speaker 1: hunters in there now. There. I could be I'm not
Speaker 1: I know the lads that do it. I'm not there
Speaker 1: because I'm never looking at home. I mean the amount
Speaker 1: of time I'm behind a trigger, he stays. So I'm
Speaker 1: almost retired from it because I'm too busy selling the
Speaker 1: virtues of spot Uh. I'm gonna go back to that
Speaker 1: that call you get from someone in that case, like
Speaker 1: someone you have a small property owner, Yeah, and they
Speaker 1: have a deer problem. Yeah. Uh, you still have to
Speaker 1: go by the seasons, like whatever the seasons are, and
Speaker 1: what do you need to do? Do you need to
Speaker 1: does a biologist or someone need to confirm that there's
Speaker 1: a problem or are you able to determine as a problem.
Speaker 1: We determine there's a problem. Right If if Mrs Meiggin's
Speaker 1: roses are being eaten and she's piste off with the
Speaker 1: deer doing it, she can phone me and say, look, Gearing,
Speaker 1: get over here and help me out with these days.
Speaker 1: Can you can you take a few out for me
Speaker 1: and then she can eat them. She can eat him.
Speaker 1: She might not want to eat him, but you can
Speaker 1: sell them. I can sell them. I can eat it myself.
Speaker 1: I can do anything I like with that. What's that stuff? Like? Uh?
Speaker 1: Ballpark street market, commercial value? While venison's expensive. You sell
Speaker 1: it on the hook and on the hoof, you sell
Speaker 1: it carcass week, carcass wait, so you'll sell it at
Speaker 1: the moment. The game dealer is almost a bit of
Speaker 1: a cartel. Sorry, guys, probably not gonna hate me for that,
Speaker 1: but I think they all know each other. They set
Speaker 1: the price at the beginning of the season, so red
Speaker 1: deer you might get, you might get a pound a pound,
Speaker 1: so that's like a dollar fifty or dollar sixty for
Speaker 1: a pound of meat for a No, that's on the hook,
Speaker 1: that's that's carcass way right. But it should. But when
Speaker 1: it gets into the if in the supermarkets and restaurants,
Speaker 1: if it's wild venison, it will be like twelve quid
Speaker 1: for a pound there. But I don't know what that means.
Speaker 1: What's twenty dollars. Let's say, let's say pound huge money.
Speaker 1: We should be like pretty comparable to cry finished finished
Speaker 1: beef perfect. Were you glad to get out of the
Speaker 1: you or not? Um? I actually voted to get out,
Speaker 1: but for a different reason for many others, and it
Speaker 1: wasn't It was basically I was just fed up. They
Speaker 1: never signed their tax returns off. They're you they've never
Speaker 1: you know, there's loads of money that's gone off into
Speaker 1: the ether, a million bottles of champagne, and we can't
Speaker 1: even manage our own government. You know. I think it's
Speaker 1: great that we're united. I just don't think we've grown
Speaker 1: up enough for it yet. Sorry guys. Yeah, my Mrs
Speaker 1: hates me because she's Maglie. She's French and she said
Speaker 1: you bustard, so she had to do a load of
Speaker 1: extra paperwork to stay in the country. So sorry Magolie
Speaker 1: about that one. That's your wife. Yeah, with those market
Speaker 1: prayers is bet you don't get invaded playerss if you're
Speaker 1: a poor shot. If you're we won't invite people that
Speaker 1: are poor shots. So so like those Scandinavians that come
Speaker 1: over and manage to deal with us, I'd say they're
Speaker 1: better shots than we are. They don't screw up. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they're very very They course they screw up, but they're
Speaker 1: on it. You know, if you say the protocol is
Speaker 1: this or it's all head shotting head shots today, lad,
Speaker 1: which is that pretty prevalent head shot? Now it's mostly
Speaker 1: head shooting, which slows your numbers down. I mean, but
Speaker 1: your your accuracy has to go up. Sore in the head,
Speaker 1: just at the back of the nut, yeah, around the neck.
Speaker 1: But I mean historically i'd comfortably shoot three or four
Speaker 1: deer in front of me. I can't do it head shooting,
Speaker 1: you know, I'll get one and I'm sort of And
Speaker 1: the other thing is I want to make sure it's
Speaker 1: down and it stays down, because I've knocked a few
Speaker 1: out in the time. Where you think it's a funny story,
Speaker 1: I mean, when I first made the bipod, I was
Speaker 1: with an old Scottish guy who was my mentor really
Speaker 1: was like a second dad to me, and I popped
Speaker 1: bipod down, shot this roebuck in the in the field.
Speaker 1: What you what noise you guys make for shooting like
Speaker 1: Latvians go? This is yeah whatever, I don't know, that's
Speaker 1: what I do. But anyway, between this, you guys, don't
Speaker 1: go back. I've shot this roebuck dropped like a soccer spud,
Speaker 1: shot the other one and then he said and get
Speaker 1: back up and just got up and run off. Yeah yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: and stayed at Mrs Meiggins's place, probably still at Mrs
Speaker 1: Meiggins's place. Yeah. Yeah. It's a crazy difference to what
Speaker 1: you guys have got so anybody out there that thinks
Speaker 1: America isn't cool when it comes to hunting, just it
Speaker 1: could be a lot worse. That's all like that. Who
Speaker 1: thinks that? Well, I don't know, but I mean people
Speaker 1: could say if they happen to be I think it's
Speaker 1: such a great opportunity that you can get anybody to say,
Speaker 1: I can go out and I'm pointing a wonderful scene
Speaker 1: or in pictures with a rifle. To me, it is
Speaker 1: pretty epic. What's your advice to Americans? Hang on to
Speaker 1: what you've got and guard the gate. Yeah, hang on
Speaker 1: to what you've got. I mean, this is it's it's
Speaker 1: it's a fantastic thing. I think Mr Roosevelt did a
Speaker 1: good job for you lads many years back. And uh yeah,
Speaker 1: I think it's I admire admire what you have over here.
Speaker 1: I think it's I've done three public land hunts. I mean,
Speaker 1: I'd never get this in the UK. Came in and
Speaker 1: you'll what do you call it? The passport control officers?
Speaker 1: I guess the police, aren't they he said? He said,
Speaker 1: when you're coming in from another country, US customer, US
Speaker 1: custom He said, what are you here for? And I said,
Speaker 1: I'm going to come and hunt elk and I'm going
Speaker 1: to spend some money hunting. And he shook my hand
Speaker 1: and he said, good on you. I really wish that
Speaker 1: would never happen in the UK, that would nobody. What
Speaker 1: do you want about? Yeah, so I've had two of
Speaker 1: those sort of interesting discussions with the customs officers and
Speaker 1: I think it's brilliant. Can I ask you another way
Speaker 1: of subject question? Yeah? Do you? I don't think the
Speaker 1: thing when I look at you guys country, the thing
Speaker 1: that just bareffles me the moles Man, is are you
Speaker 1: into the royal family? No, you're not a member of
Speaker 1: the royal now. I'm well, we were probably blood relatives
Speaker 1: if you go back far enough. They've done a bit
Speaker 1: of shagging in their time. I'm sure I can't pay attention.
Speaker 1: I've given up just listening to news. I listened to
Speaker 1: Wow Jazira, get my facts and switch off again. And
Speaker 1: I'm really not I'm not against some I think they
Speaker 1: bring a lot of money into the system, but I
Speaker 1: think they cost money. They cost a fortune, but they
Speaker 1: also bring a lot of You guys want to come
Speaker 1: over and sit outside bucking and Palace and spank some cash.
Speaker 1: It's not like a tall moneylot. No, no, no, I
Speaker 1: think the Queen actually, I've got a lot of time.
Speaker 1: I think she's a good old bird. I think she's done.
Speaker 1: She's done her a bit. But the rest of them
Speaker 1: you don't wake up in the morning day. And to
Speaker 1: know which those guys mad who, I don't even I
Speaker 1: don't even pay any attention on. My life has been
Speaker 1: fly fishing, climbing in a big way, and hunting. When
Speaker 1: you got into climbing, were you climbing internationally? Yeah, eyesight
Speaker 1: rock climbing because I couldn't get into hunting in a
Speaker 1: way I wanted to, so it took me all over
Speaker 1: the world night. I used to climb with a guy
Speaker 1: called Simon Yates a lot. They did a film on
Speaker 1: him called Touching the Void. That is not a born film,
Speaker 1: that's a climbing film. And he's famous because he picked
Speaker 1: his mate off. But he's an interesting guy. Yeah. He
Speaker 1: took his Swiss translation, took a Swiss army knife and
Speaker 1: cut the fucking rope. Yeah, and then I didn't go
Speaker 1: and check to see if his mate was alive. And
Speaker 1: I completely with him on it. I mean, you've got
Speaker 1: to put yourself in that environment to judges. If you're
Speaker 1: sitting on the sofa judging somebody in that kind of environment,
Speaker 1: I think it's wrong. But he's a he's a pretty
Speaker 1: cool guy. So I've done a lot of climbing with
Speaker 1: him in the past, Greenland him a laya um Patagonia. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I've done a bit in the States and such
Speaker 1: like that. I'm too old for it now. And my
Speaker 1: Missy says, stick with the fly fish in the hunting,
Speaker 1: and yeah, yeah, that's great. I've got a few years
Speaker 1: left in me. Here's the thing, dude, I'm really interested
Speaker 1: in how old people are now because if sitting where
Speaker 1: I'm at did I could have another decade and still
Speaker 1: be doing what I'm loving it. I'm loving it. And
Speaker 1: you know, I've got a wonderful team. That's Barton. There's
Speaker 1: the Queen of Spartan. She she's an Olympic clay pigeon shot,
Speaker 1: super cool. And I said, Hannah, the ship's fucking yours, right,
Speaker 1: I'm just going to want to go and play and
Speaker 1: enjoy the journey because I won't see the end game.
Speaker 1: I will be expensive to run, right, And that's what
Speaker 1: I said, And that's and they've done a brilliant job. Yeah,
Speaker 1: how many how many employees? You guys go a tiny
Speaker 1: with twelve people? Yeah, yeah, it's really small and really
Speaker 1: women the wrong country. We need to be in the
Speaker 1: USA and we'll get hard if we did a business
Speaker 1: plan about it. I soundn't too enough to tick all
Speaker 1: those boxes. Yeah, I would love a green card? Can
Speaker 1: you get me a green card? But it's just it's no,
Speaker 1: I love what you've got. I could. I could see
Speaker 1: myself settling here in a tiny little cabin on some
Speaker 1: public land. I would really be happy about that. If
Speaker 1: an American company, Bart Spartan, does that give you a
Speaker 1: green card? Oh yeah, I guess, I guess that would
Speaker 1: be part of the part of the part of the
Speaker 1: deal making process. Yeah. No, it's it's good fun. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you got to shoot some You need to get to
Speaker 1: Ireland as well. I know. I know Cally's drive around
Speaker 1: the book about Ireland. He's he's Irish, Yeah, I know that.
Speaker 1: And then he's got We've got a really good NTE
Speaker 1: over there that's probably in on that Willow Mara. Yeah. Uh,
Speaker 1: And I've spoke It's been a while since I've spoken
Speaker 1: with him, but he's got a sweet said, he manages
Speaker 1: some some hunting ground over there, and then he also
Speaker 1: hunts grouse on the on the cliffs above the sea,
Speaker 1: not close over. No, he's a super cool. They're south
Speaker 1: to me. People got and chuck themselves off from all
Speaker 1: the time. Did you ever read that there's a great
Speaker 1: essay called Legends of the Fall and it's a it's
Speaker 1: a it's a long piece of reporting about people who've
Speaker 1: jumped off the cliffs to commit suicide, but it gets
Speaker 1: into this guy you probably heard the story jumps off
Speaker 1: and lands on a ledge and then what he went
Speaker 1: through to stay alive and survive and survived. Yeah, once
Speaker 1: he hit that led, she was like, change my mind sometimes,
Speaker 1: like Jimmy Stewart right, and uh, it's a wonderful life.
Speaker 1: But without the angel letting him see that town, you know,
Speaker 1: Mr Potter, And yeah, we gotta jump back to this
Speaker 1: guard the gate thing. I would bet that you're going
Speaker 1: to find yourself in a situation where there's a hundred
Speaker 1: and fifty thousand people amongst seventy million with firearms licenses.
Speaker 1: If all you worry about is guarding the gate, I understand.
Speaker 1: I think it is just going to be increasingly so
Speaker 1: defensive and minoritized to think in the way of just
Speaker 1: guard what we have. On proactivity you're talking about here
Speaker 1: absolutely due the language like literally losing their rights every
Speaker 1: day in there's all kinds of examples of hunting in America,
Speaker 1: like leaning towards the European model, like absolutely absolutely. But
Speaker 1: what I'm saying is is if all we care abridge
Speaker 1: the British is this idea of um, fuck you defend
Speaker 1: what we have and like this this the picture that
Speaker 1: it pays for me is like nobody ever won anything
Speaker 1: by being behind the gate. I'm using three. I mean
Speaker 1: by guarding the gate, well, guarding the gate. Then my
Speaker 1: meaning to that is open the doors, guys, and let
Speaker 1: everybody have an opportunity to hunt right, make it popular.
Speaker 1: Do what you're doing right, promote it. People watch your
Speaker 1: program in the UK that aren't hunters right and they
Speaker 1: love it and they're going, oh, I'd like to have
Speaker 1: a crack at that. So do what protectionism is what
Speaker 1: we're doing in the UK. It's not it doesn't work.
Speaker 1: I'm here to prove that. But opening the doorway and
Speaker 1: say anybody Mrs Niggins, little Jimmy can go hunting. That's brilliant.
Speaker 1: Keep it up. Well yeah, and Mrs Niggins is they're
Speaker 1: going to be a proponent of the situation if you're
Speaker 1: out there being proactive and handle it. Well, take the
Speaker 1: Danish it So in Denmark there's been a guy I know,
Speaker 1: he said ten years ago, if he went into Copenhagen
Speaker 1: with a camo jacket on, it have almost got spat on.
Speaker 1: Now he goes into Denmark, it'll get five or six
Speaker 1: people wanting to buy him a beer. And a beer
Speaker 1: in Denmark is a lot of money guys, and half
Speaker 1: of them will want to come and learn how to hunt.
Speaker 1: And it's he's a hunter. Well he do this show
Speaker 1: about Denmark. Yeah, yeah, I could link you in with him,
Speaker 1: and he's he's it's women that want to eat good food.
Speaker 1: They don't want hormone and jet they don't want people
Speaker 1: are fed up with eating craps. So suddenly venison or
Speaker 1: wild game is becoming hugely Yeah, and and the UK lesser. So,
Speaker 1: but there are more or more women getting in hunting
Speaker 1: in the you guy as well. You know, I'm sort
Speaker 1: of a Danish film expert. Sorry, I'm a Danish film expert.
Speaker 1: Big Mad's Michelson fan like Fit Push three was that
Speaker 1: one he did Surviving in the Arctic. That was a
Speaker 1: good movie, just like last couple of years he was
Speaker 1: in the the new one where they stay drunk all
Speaker 1: the time. Another round, another round, that's yeah, yeah, no, man,
Speaker 1: I thought about quitting my job and going to get
Speaker 1: like a PhD in Danish cinema. There's another one he's
Speaker 1: in where there's like no words and he just walks
Speaker 1: around killing people with an axe. Valhalla rising. Man, if
Speaker 1: I had to if you came to me right now,
Speaker 1: and if like God came to me right now with
Speaker 1: a gun and he's like, you gotta pick American films
Speaker 1: or Danish films, like without without a doubt, I would
Speaker 1: pick Danish films, not a doubt. Only disagree with what
Speaker 1: you're saying. I would like to hear why. It never
Speaker 1: said why because every year, Uh, people lose is a
Speaker 1: traditional why. But go ahead. In America, in this fifty states,
Speaker 1: every year there is a reduction in people's hunting rights
Speaker 1: in this country. Uh you just we just saw it
Speaker 1: right now. The most recent glaring example is Washington losing
Speaker 1: their rights to hunt bears in the spring. Okay, Prior
Speaker 1: to that, they lost their rights to hunt mountain lions
Speaker 1: with dogs, They lost their trapping privileges. Okay, you see
Speaker 1: it everywhere all the time, Arizona. They will not stop
Speaker 1: every couple of years. There's another thing to ban cat hunting,
Speaker 1: main banning certain bear hunting practice. So I feel that
Speaker 1: it is essential to fight for maintaining traditional use practices
Speaker 1: around hunting and fishing. A way to say that in
Speaker 1: shorthand would be, and I didn't come up with the term,
Speaker 1: I don't know who did, would be that it is
Speaker 1: necessary to guard the gate. Now that doesn't mean that
Speaker 1: that's the only thing one should do with their time.
Speaker 1: You should be doing a half dozen different things. I
Speaker 1: would say, you should be guarding the gate and guarding
Speaker 1: the habitat. I get where cows coming from, because I
Speaker 1: think it comes back to kind of what we talked
Speaker 1: about with nu Gent, with Whackham and Stackham. It's just
Speaker 1: it's it's I know, but I'm saying it's language that
Speaker 1: sounds maybe more aggressive and than than what is like
Speaker 1: what the main intent is. I guess like guarding the
Speaker 1: gate sounds like fuck you, you're not getting in. We're
Speaker 1: going to fight for what we've always had, which I
Speaker 1: think is definitely necessary. The semantics thing, yeah, I wasn't
Speaker 1: attacking the semantics. Okay, I have a question, like, so
Speaker 1: does anybody around this table taken somebody hunting that is
Speaker 1: at a shitty time They might be emotionally, but I
Speaker 1: have I want to tell you something I have. I
Speaker 1: have taken plenty of people hunting who didn't go hunting. Again, yeah,
Speaker 1: I have never ever taken someone hunting who I wish
Speaker 1: they hadn't gone. Ever. So we took a vegetarian that
Speaker 1: was on our boat cooking for us in Greenland, who
Speaker 1: was a journalist and very up, but she was a vegan.
Speaker 1: Then became now she's back to meet and she'd never
Speaker 1: been hunting, and I said, come with us. So she didn't,
Speaker 1: and she had an epic time. And I love taking
Speaker 1: people out and it really enriches and doesn't it, you
Speaker 1: know it really? And I think we've got nothing to hide,
Speaker 1: and we've got everything to promote, and if it's all
Speaker 1: done right, fucking brilliant, bring it on. Just that's gate keeping,
Speaker 1: I get it. I think if you yourself down to
Speaker 1: know but nothing to hide, and just say open the
Speaker 1: doors and that's what you guys. From my perspective, I
Speaker 1: don't know all the rules and REGs over here. Far
Speaker 1: from it. I'm no expert. But that's what you do
Speaker 1: so wonderfully. Well, just keep on promoting it. COVID kids
Speaker 1: locked away for two fucking years. You know what damage
Speaker 1: has that done? Get them out, get him with the
Speaker 1: rifles going on at Turkey. I think it's brilliant because
Speaker 1: that's what we cannot do without jumping through huge numbers
Speaker 1: of hoops. And as I say, twenty years time, if
Speaker 1: you don't promote it, well, you could be in the
Speaker 1: same place we are, which is pretty guarding the gate.
Speaker 1: Thing Like like when I look at my son just
Speaker 1: started hunting, you know, he's ten. When I looked thirty
Speaker 1: years out, I could easily see they're being way less
Speaker 1: opportunities for him to hunt. If we don't guard the gate.
Speaker 1: I had a person he was the gate is not enough. Listen,
Speaker 1: if if I said it's very important that I protect
Speaker 1: my kids from being abducted, you'd be like, that is
Speaker 1: not parenting. That's only part of parenting, like correct um
Speaker 1: talking about among all the other things I do as
Speaker 1: a parent, I try to prevent them from being Let's
Speaker 1: talk about Washington's uh failure to maintain spring bear hunting. Okay,
Speaker 1: so if you waved the PAM and said, oh, okay,
Speaker 1: we got spring bear hunting, is that going to somehow
Speaker 1: prevent the attack on spring bear hunting next year? No? No,
Speaker 1: you gotta win it every time. It's not winning it
Speaker 1: every time, Like, that's not going to help, you know what, Colorado.
Speaker 1: What we want to do is be proactive enough to
Speaker 1: where these people go, oh, holy sh it, there's no
Speaker 1: point in attacking spring bear hunting. But I think guarding
Speaker 1: the gate and saying, God, we just gotta hold onto
Speaker 1: what's ours is just not is just a short sighted,
Speaker 1: too easy way of of saying this. It does not
Speaker 1: because because the motivate the battle is shortsighted, the battle isn't.
Speaker 1: It's not a long game anymore. It's like it's a
Speaker 1: very short game. They just lost it right now. It's
Speaker 1: a very our game. There's not time right now to
Speaker 1: go change the global perspective of hunting in order to
Speaker 1: save You're not gonna like rosy up hunting. When people
Speaker 1: in my battle, the people in Seattle are, they're gonna
Speaker 1: be like, oh, I feel kind of bad about this something.
Speaker 1: Look at the amount of anti hunting legislation proposed every year,
Speaker 1: and then look at the amount of pro hunting legislation
Speaker 1: proposed every year. And I think that is going to
Speaker 1: be a very important metric to what I'm talking about.
Speaker 1: Sitting back and letting other people dictate how we think
Speaker 1: and move because it's we don't have any time. We
Speaker 1: got to be protective, protective, protective. Right now, I don't
Speaker 1: have any time. We're gonna let all these other people
Speaker 1: dictate how we think about our hunting and fishing because
Speaker 1: we're on the defense all the time. Is not going
Speaker 1: to win cal question Chinese, they've played the really really
Speaker 1: long long game question. Well, my daddy's telling me his
Speaker 1: favorite Chinese proverb, you have to tell me if this
Speaker 1: if us right or wrong? Many hands from an oil
Speaker 1: Italian man, Many hands make light work questions. I've heard that,
Speaker 1: did you hear from you Chinese relatives? Americans? Rob's got
Speaker 1: a question? Robs got a question. So, just from my
Speaker 1: from the bridge perspective, why have they banned the bear hunting? Uh?
Speaker 1: Basically the argument was, we don't know enough about bears.
Speaker 1: The population studies aren't complete, and that was how the
Speaker 1: Washington Game Commission kind of like came to a null
Speaker 1: vote on the bear issue. That's not what they were
Speaker 1: talking about. That is not what they were talking about.
Speaker 1: That was what they used to get a thing that
Speaker 1: they had already determined they wanted. So they see baby
Speaker 1: c stuff propaganda again. And which do you know what
Speaker 1: they're doing in California right now. Here's how they're trying
Speaker 1: to end bear hunting in California right now. They're trying
Speaker 1: to say, we've seen increased forest fires. Until we better
Speaker 1: understand what these increased forest fires might mean for bear populations,
Speaker 1: we better stop hunting them. And you'll have some people
Speaker 1: be like, oh that makes yeah, because you know what
Speaker 1: their sense, you know what is in their head already.
Speaker 1: So they they're killing bears they see is an emotional
Speaker 1: thing they see people not like you have to fight.
Speaker 1: We have this ongoing debate here. We have this ongoing
Speaker 1: debate in Northern Rockies is like what about have have
Speaker 1: grizzly bears recovered to the point where they could be
Speaker 1: state managed and potentially hunted. No one argues, No one
Speaker 1: argues have grizzly bears been recovered? What they argue is
Speaker 1: what have you thought about this? Have you thought about that?
Speaker 1: So originally is like, have you thought about what would
Speaker 1: happen if cutthroat trout collapsed? So don't don't do that
Speaker 1: until you can prove me that. Okay, here's what that
Speaker 1: would look like and in in in fact, only like
Speaker 1: nine percent of bears for a couple of weeks out
Speaker 1: of the year access cutthroat trout. Things. Okay, tell me
Speaker 1: this one. Tell me this one. What if white bark
Speaker 1: pine blister rust was to be worse than it is now?
Speaker 1: Answer that for me. Then you go and be like, okay,
Speaker 1: well we're looking at you see like ten percent survival rates,
Speaker 1: so over time would be this and then this. Okay, okay,
Speaker 1: never mind that one. Then tell me this, right, it's
Speaker 1: never they're never questioning the actual question. So there's no science. Really,
Speaker 1: it's all science. It's all it's all science, but it's
Speaker 1: all it's it's like, you take a thing you know
Speaker 1: you want to happen. You don't want people in Washington
Speaker 1: hunting bears in the spring. How do I do that?
Speaker 1: I can't just say I don't want them to do it.
Speaker 1: I have to go say, let me think I got it.
Speaker 1: I don't like your science. Yeah. In Washington is you
Speaker 1: have a governor that is not supportive, and they've appointed
Speaker 1: game commissioners that oppose each other, and basically it's stalled
Speaker 1: out the process in a way that did not favor
Speaker 1: bear hunting in the state. So surely one one string
Speaker 1: to the bow here would be to better educate people
Speaker 1: on the prose of bear hunting. Yeah. And and we
Speaker 1: just went over one of the game commissioners. Yeah. And
Speaker 1: I think education is always going to be a huge
Speaker 1: part of this great part of guarding the gate. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And that's where I think we will come together. What
Speaker 1: do we say, Olier, what was at the top of
Speaker 1: the umbrella earlier? And fault and under fault is like
Speaker 1: forgot distracted? Okay, guard the gate, under guard the gate.
Speaker 1: It's a big umbrella, legislation, education, pr Okay, And you
Speaker 1: can take what you can pick one of those spots.
Speaker 1: But you're guarding the gate. Cow, Isn't that what you
Speaker 1: just because it sounds so pugnacious, Oh, I think it
Speaker 1: just sounds weak. I'm a small man behind the gate.
Speaker 1: Don't cross this gate, you know. I want to be
Speaker 1: on the other side of the gate people and telling
Speaker 1: them this is why we do things. Okay, if this
Speaker 1: is how it's done. If it's a branding issue, let
Speaker 1: me ask you this. If it's a branding issue, because
Speaker 1: I know that you that you that I know that
Speaker 1: you're supportive of hunting rights. If it's a branding issue,
Speaker 1: brand it better for me, Like what you would call
Speaker 1: if you had to make a rallying cry. Not around
Speaker 1: defending the environment, which I think is very important, not
Speaker 1: around defending habitat, which I think is very important. Okay,
Speaker 1: but this part of the issue, this portion of the issue,
Speaker 1: how would you brand it? I think it's branded under
Speaker 1: being a hunter? What about the health of the hunter,
Speaker 1: the health of hunting? You know, is that offensive to you?
Speaker 1: The health of hunting? Why would that be offensive to me, Steve,
Speaker 1: because guarding the gates offensive to you? Don't like? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know why you would like the sound of it.
Speaker 1: It's like a prepper mental. You got to call it something,
Speaker 1: the health, and it's what people call it. It does
Speaker 1: sound pre man. I think clickbait is great, like people
Speaker 1: are going to click on that, but I don't think
Speaker 1: it is the thing that's going to solve our issues, right,
Speaker 1: It's like I disagree because it does though. It does
Speaker 1: when they tried to when they tried to ban when
Speaker 1: they tried to ban bear, Like the last time they
Speaker 1: tried to ban all cat hunting in Arizona, they beat it.
Speaker 1: The last time they tried to ban all bear hunting,
Speaker 1: and why Maine, they beat it. They beat it, They
Speaker 1: guarded the gate whatever you want to call Yeah, you
Speaker 1: gotta call it something. It's like all the things you
Speaker 1: do under that umbrella. Listen when people go, oh, a hunter,
Speaker 1: that means all of this other stuff and oh, by
Speaker 1: the way, they kill stuff to eat it. But they're
Speaker 1: the ones that are the ones that are uh pro
Speaker 1: clean water, their pro wildlife, their pro habitat. It's so
Speaker 1: you're talking like more of a hunting is conservation thing
Speaker 1: human being. I think most people would be pro hunting
Speaker 1: if they better understood it. And that's that's It's just
Speaker 1: it's easy to dislike something you don't know about. It's
Speaker 1: easy to have a little snippet of information. And I'm
Speaker 1: guilty of it. You know, I listen a little bit
Speaker 1: on your podcast or something, I think I'm suddenly an expert.
Speaker 1: I haven't heard the whole story and so many it's
Speaker 1: human nature to judge on the knowledge. You know. If
Speaker 1: we do a better job at selling the virtues of
Speaker 1: what we do, which is pretty cool, I think that's
Speaker 1: the way to win this. I don't think that that
Speaker 1: will make It's like, here's the thing I just gonna say,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do that thing, right, have to say my
Speaker 1: wife like, I just want to do this, and so
Speaker 1: he keeps saying the same thing. Or we're over in
Speaker 1: different ways a hunter and outdoors and whatever. There's a
Speaker 1: lot of things you need to be doing. A lot
Speaker 1: of things you need to be doing. One of them
Speaker 1: is you need to be active in defending your rights
Speaker 1: as a hunter. You need to It's like that's a
Speaker 1: pillar or what do you call like, like, that's a
Speaker 1: plank in the platform, a plank in the platform, I
Speaker 1: would say, further word pro in there, and you need
Speaker 1: to be proactive. Oh okay, and wait for an email
Speaker 1: to show up and be like, oh god. And that's
Speaker 1: something like we didn't need to do when we were fourteen.
Speaker 1: That's not true. We should have been doing it first.
Speaker 1: The first big sweep, the first big sweep of of
Speaker 1: trapping bands hit in in around. It was like the
Speaker 1: minute Colorado had more people in Denver and Fort Collins,
Speaker 1: it was like the tripping point. Yeah, I'm saying like
Speaker 1: in the eighties, this was not like we just weren't
Speaker 1: aware that it would need to be a thing, and
Speaker 1: it became a thing. It became him a thing, and
Speaker 1: now it's like part of hunting. It's very much a
Speaker 1: part of hunting that you need to do these things
Speaker 1: and if if you want to be a hunt because
Speaker 1: every year there's a thing every year, just thing. I
Speaker 1: don't I get I understand, Like I feel that cal
Speaker 1: is making an aesthetic argument. I don't think he's making
Speaker 1: a substantive argument. It's aesthetics. Well, I don't think he can.
Speaker 1: I don't think it means that you somehow dismiss the
Speaker 1: threats to hunting by saying I don't like guard the gate. Correct,
Speaker 1: but it sounds like it. I I don't understand how
Speaker 1: it does. It just does because because you've embraced it.
Speaker 1: That's why it does. I get it. I don't care
Speaker 1: about I could I could live my whole life proactivity.
Speaker 1: I could live my whole life and is be and
Speaker 1: be whatever level of effective I am, right Now I
Speaker 1: could be as a factive of for my whole life
Speaker 1: and never use the three words guard the gate. I
Speaker 1: don't need those words. In fact, it was it was no,
Speaker 1: I don't because because it didn't. It didn't convince you.
Speaker 1: And you're one of the You're one of the people
Speaker 1: I look to to like you want to look people
Speaker 1: I look to to frame my opinions. So it didn't
Speaker 1: work on you. Now it's making me question the slogan.
Speaker 1: All right, But in America, in the political world, whatever,
Speaker 1: we find slogans like we know what the neo khan is,
Speaker 1: we know what mega means. Right, It's like there's ways
Speaker 1: of capturing there's ways of capturing a pattern of thought.
Speaker 1: What a paleocon like I say, Like that individual's a
Speaker 1: paleoconi like, Okay, I kind of got it. I could
Speaker 1: fill in the blanks about that person's belief system. Um it.
Speaker 1: It is a it's a term for a portion of
Speaker 1: our responsibility. I don't think if you're if you're an
Speaker 1: environmentalist or conservationist, pro habitat whatever, I don't think that
Speaker 1: that then gives you cover to turn to blind eye.
Speaker 1: Two people losing hunting rights that are sustainable practices. I've
Speaker 1: had this conversation with multiple leaders of conservation groups and
Speaker 1: they'll tell you, oh, we don't want to get involved
Speaker 1: in method to take arguments. I'm like, then you're not
Speaker 1: serving you're you're not serving your constituent. You can't pick
Speaker 1: and choose. You have to be involved in method to
Speaker 1: take fights. You can't act like you're representing hunters and anglers.
Speaker 1: But you won't get involved in the method to take
Speaker 1: argument because you want to stay above the fray and
Speaker 1: not piss off some potential donor who thinks hunting is okay,
Speaker 1: but all forms of it are kind of mean by
Speaker 1: like the general idea of it. You can't do that.
Speaker 1: I absolutely agree with that. All right, thanks for joining
Speaker 1: rob is the I would blame where we are today
Speaker 1: on two things. One supermarket's people buy meat in packets
Speaker 1: now they don't even consider it's a living thing. I'm
Speaker 1: guilty of it. And the other thing is too many
Speaker 1: bloody documentaries on nature showing the pretty side and not
Speaker 1: the ugly side. You know, show us an elephant starving out,
Speaker 1: show us a line getting killed by young lions. We
Speaker 1: don't see that. You don't You don't go on a
Speaker 1: Nature's Medal. I haven't watched I probably am guilty of
Speaker 1: that fact. I don't watch enough TV, but I haven't
Speaker 1: been able to find those programs. Just go to Nature's
Speaker 1: Medal on Instagram. My current, like giant looming evil is
Speaker 1: fake meat. Yeah, Like I think fake meat is going
Speaker 1: to lead to exactly what you're talking about. Right, It's
Speaker 1: like meat comes from the supermarket. Well, now meat comes
Speaker 1: from a lab A hard time getting round. I wouldn't
Speaker 1: even this is this is why you should because I
Speaker 1: I feel like I should, but I can't. You're taking
Speaker 1: you're taking the agriculture, which okay, we have sixty million
Speaker 1: acres of what we consider to be public lands in
Speaker 1: the United States. Right, we have over nine fifty million
Speaker 1: acres of land dedicated to agricultural use in the United States.
Speaker 1: What happens to that land that's dedicated to agricultural use
Speaker 1: for all the you know, supposed evils of let's say,
Speaker 1: like the beef industry, if that's not where beef comes
Speaker 1: from anymore, or work a shipload of condos right right?
Speaker 1: And and that is the thing, like that is like
Speaker 1: the tipping point for me of where all these open
Speaker 1: spaces where whether you think they're in production or not
Speaker 1: because they don't have a golf course or condo on them.
Speaker 1: Are actually out there doing the best job they can
Speaker 1: in cleaning our water, cleaning our air, and you know,
Speaker 1: providing some open space for God's sake. About the fake
Speaker 1: meats thing is that they'll then say a cow requires
Speaker 1: x amount of acres that in the American West, Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: but that acreage isn't just hosting that cow exactly. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean it's it's hosting all the mechanisms of life
Speaker 1: for for our food production, right like open rain, sure, yeah, pollinators. Well,
Speaker 1: in the end, we're just going to be boring a
Speaker 1: mebs that just live here and do nothing. I don't
Speaker 1: fantasy that. I like to go out hunting. I like
Speaker 1: to go climbing, I like to go fishing. I'll like
Speaker 1: to see all these fantastic places. And you know, well,
Speaker 1: I don't want to eat fight mate, because twenty years
Speaker 1: down the line, do we know what it's going to
Speaker 1: do to us? We don't have a clue, do we.
Speaker 1: I don't care. Like, here's the thing, man about that
Speaker 1: I don't do but I don't. It's not It doesn't
Speaker 1: bother me when people do you know, Like I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't. Uh, there's all kinds of things I don't
Speaker 1: engage in, and I don't care for other people engage
Speaker 1: in it, Like I don't like a duty eting a
Speaker 1: dude eating lab me Like I said, I just can't
Speaker 1: find it in me to be offended or nervous because
Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't care if the whole world they
Speaker 1: lab meeting. How do you dear meat that's meat raised
Speaker 1: in a lab, cultured in a lab, not Labrador retriever meat.
Speaker 1: Everybody doesn't need anything that jokes run its course over
Speaker 1: thanks to joining round, no pleasure, really enjoyed it. We're
Speaker 1: too next for you. So I'm down to Australia in
Speaker 1: a couple of weeks and then hopefully Tasmania for a few.
Speaker 1: I've never been to Tasmania. I've got to try it.
Speaker 1: Just picked up a new scott Rod. It's got to go.
Speaker 1: So be rude, not too, wouldn't it? Would you know?
Speaker 1: They got some islands out there where the Tasmanian Devils
Speaker 1: have HIV. Yeah, yeah, they're not saying very well in
Speaker 1: a bad way. Yeah it's yeah, there's there, we got
Speaker 1: there's Yeah, it's a wild world out there real quick? Uh, first,
Speaker 1: you're serious? Yes, how did the what was the transition pathway? Oh?
Speaker 1: I have no idea. There's a really they're trying to
Speaker 1: save the Tasmanian devil. At one point they put a
Speaker 1: colony of them on to some islands um and some
Speaker 1: sexually transmitted diseases got into that population. And yeah, I
Speaker 1: want to say one of them was HIV. Yeah, they know,
Speaker 1: they know got chlamydia right, Yeah, I'm chlamydia is a
Speaker 1: deal for for the Tasmanian Devils too. Phil, a little
Speaker 1: phil joke. What there's a thing like Koalas are riddled
Speaker 1: with clamidia right now, it's hard on them. And I
Speaker 1: was saying that was filled. That was just phil joke. Yeah, Phil,
Speaker 1: domestic sheep get a bad job. Oh it's too dark,
Speaker 1: Ignore it, stupid pilot. That are you saying that I
Speaker 1: was hanging out with Koalas and things happened? Can you
Speaker 1: either cut it out? Can you make the joke? Couldn't
Speaker 1: think of a different joke and put it in there?
Speaker 1: And I think that's good prettys humor. There's a lot
Speaker 1: of Brits that would really find that I was one
Speaker 1: of the worst jokes, stupidest jokes I ever made. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I agree, I regret it. Okay, what can I say
Speaker 1: tell people how to go buy? What? What's the like?
Speaker 1: Tell like if you had to pick like one asset,
Speaker 1: one thing, that would be like this captures um spartan bipods,
Speaker 1: you'd be like, I would have them, see my I
Speaker 1: actually am more sort of I really like our little
Speaker 1: tripod unit. No, no, I mean I mean that that.
Speaker 1: I mean, like, what were they so? So it's a
Speaker 1: weight issue, so really stupidly light right, very very strong.
Speaker 1: You clip them on when you need them, and you
Speaker 1: take them off when you don't. For me, that's that
Speaker 1: bit of real estate under the rifle. You use a bipod?
Speaker 1: What so infrequently? Why do we keep it on the rifle? Yeah,
Speaker 1: Bay Park. It's a little receiver. The receiver screws into
Speaker 1: the sling swivel stone and becomes the provides the sling.
Speaker 1: We don't really know it's there, and then you need
Speaker 1: to stick the thing in your on your waistbelt hour
Speaker 1: sometimes to carry on my back pocket. They're easy to use,
Speaker 1: they were just there. They're really an excuse of why
Speaker 1: wouldn't you take a bipod that's what we've done because
Speaker 1: there's a mountain hunter or whatever. I probably wouldn't have
Speaker 1: taken one many years ago, but that now, because it's
Speaker 1: so light and it's there, I can. The other thing
Speaker 1: that the bipod does that many don't do well is
Speaker 1: there's a lot of canton rotations, so you can follow
Speaker 1: a target and you can can't because the ground ain't
Speaker 1: sucking even is it up there, you know, it's very unstable,
Speaker 1: and so to be able to lob your bike rifle
Speaker 1: on get a stable shot. I mean we get shiploads
Speaker 1: of people come back and said, I've just done this
Speaker 1: and done this, it's brilliant. I think we're doing something right.
Speaker 1: We can always do it better. We're not perfect, far
Speaker 1: from it, but we try bloody hard and we're not arrogant.
Speaker 1: We listen, how long do you think I've had one
Speaker 1: of these where you've been one of the first one time? Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's got to be five years, there, isn't it? Five
Speaker 1: or six years? I would say, and I will still
Speaker 1: The magnet on that original biopod is so strong that
Speaker 1: even though I've had a lot of experience with them,
Speaker 1: I catch myself thinking like, oh, did they add like
Speaker 1: a lock into this if if, if it ever malfunctions
Speaker 1: because you got you picked up a metal burd from somewhere. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you do come to realize there's a lot of there's
Speaker 1: a magnetism in the earth exactly exactly, and we do
Speaker 1: a military version with a locking system. I mean, they're
Speaker 1: coming out. There's lots of stuff we're doing. But that's
Speaker 1: not my back. So uh, one more question for you,
Speaker 1: go on for our next euro report, Like, I don't
Speaker 1: I want to go h you know, hid when you're
Speaker 1: tightening your lug nuts, yeah, you don't just go around
Speaker 1: in a circle. Yeah right you yeah, you go like,
Speaker 1: uh yeah, diagonal whatever. So Madge, we're doing Europe like
Speaker 1: you're tightening lug nuts. Yeah. I don't want to go
Speaker 1: to to the next lug nut. What what consciens should
Speaker 1: we do? I'd probably pick an Eastern European country or
Speaker 1: go right in the middle and do France. That be crazy, Yeah,
Speaker 1: but that's like your neighbor. Yeah, but are they real different?
Speaker 1: They are totally different. Yeah. Yeah, but you've got every
Speaker 1: country will give you a different flavor, you know, it's
Speaker 1: it's they're so so different. I want to do Finland. Man,
Speaker 1: Finland would be brilliant. We've got some good finished buddies
Speaker 1: do a lot of work with sacco and ticker and
Speaker 1: there's some good there's serious lads over there and Spain stuff.
Speaker 1: What can trump with the bow in Spain? I can't
Speaker 1: wait to do it access my homeland. What country would
Speaker 1: be the closest thing to the US. It's probably not
Speaker 1: a brilliant question. Um. I tell you that Mark has
Speaker 1: some public land, right, There are a few countries that
Speaker 1: have a little bit of public land. That's probably the
Speaker 1: only similarities there. Yeah, and there's clubs in places like Sweden.
Speaker 1: So you become a moose, you join your moose hut
Speaker 1: Tink club. And I've seen old boys in there, like
Speaker 1: they must be knocking on the door ninety and they
Speaker 1: don't want to give up their place. So there's carrying
Speaker 1: these huge packs into the middle of nowhere for their
Speaker 1: their annual moose event, you know. So yeah, it's I
Speaker 1: want to see moose get around with dogs. Yeah, they
Speaker 1: do a lot of that or there, I believe. So
Speaker 1: it looks yeah, it looks awesome. Yeah, it's just the
Speaker 1: Arctic is a great place. Cape Kailey hunting that would
Speaker 1: be a cool thing that me and and you're trying
Speaker 1: to There's a guy called all Flint. I think link
Speaker 1: he's super cool. If I could do that's that's the
Speaker 1: one when people are like, what's the one big thing
Speaker 1: we hunt out of the country, That's what I want
Speaker 1: to do. You hunt them out of trees using a
Speaker 1: barking bird and you're shooting a full ball rifle into
Speaker 1: a tree. I mean, that's pretty freaky for me. I
Speaker 1: would do that in the UK because I'm likely to
Speaker 1: end up going into Tumbridge Wells hitting Mrs what's her name, yeah,
Speaker 1: Mrs Niggins where they have but but up there there's
Speaker 1: nobody and that's what they've been doing for years and
Speaker 1: it's super excited. It's like deer hunting for a bird.
Speaker 1: I am above uh yeah, you know winning Rome, right,
Speaker 1: I'm not above shooting bird out of a tree with
Speaker 1: some people that shoot birds out of Yeah, no, no,
Speaker 1: they're it's brilliant, it's really you do it. You put
Speaker 1: a lot of miles in for very few shots. But
Speaker 1: it's a really epic place to go. And then with
Speaker 1: the old male birds, they taste like shipe and they cooked,
Speaker 1: so we just do tartar and they're lovely. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Oh they're not good cook now that the fat where
Speaker 1: some people might like them, but they're really good raw. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know I found out that that kind of surprised me.
Speaker 1: Is um timerg are so much better raw. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: got I got all the grousekeepers in Scotland last year
Speaker 1: eating grouse row and they said, fuck off, we're not
Speaker 1: doing that, and then after a little while said come on,
Speaker 1: just try and they I did, like eleven of them
Speaker 1: over a few weeks. They're lovely, they really are. I
Speaker 1: wouldn't grouse again, you know that that dish um having
Speaker 1: made in a long while, but like like Chinese heart
Speaker 1: part yeah, where you like you got the broth and
Speaker 1: the stuff in it and just take raw meat and
Speaker 1: dip it. Yeah, it's like doing that for tim again.
Speaker 1: They're like cook but not really cooked. It's good, don't
Speaker 1: what's that? The mums do that? Yeah? I think so.
Speaker 1: Whenever I have a question by anything over that neck
Speaker 1: of the woods, I just asked Aran try to answer
Speaker 1: not always right? All right, Thanks for coming on man, pleasure.
Speaker 1: It's great your report