Speaker 1: Bonno, Hi, I don't know. I didn't know. I forgot
Speaker 1: it all right, now we're jumping right in. You forgot
Speaker 1: bon journal after our many many days in Italy five
Speaker 1: years ago, almost exactly, well five years in a month.
Speaker 1: I'll remember is you going up to a lady and
Speaker 1: saying me Dispucci to say I'm sorry, and she immediately
Speaker 1: said what do you want in English? And I was like,
Speaker 1: that's yeah, that sounds right. Yeah, Spiacci is sorry. But
Speaker 1: apparently I learned since then that has not widely used.
Speaker 1: It was more squozy. You know. Hey everybody, Hey, well,
Speaker 1: welcome back to the show. I'm Eli, I'm Diana, and
Speaker 1: we're here with another amazing episode bring to you today
Speaker 1: at epic tale of romance against all odds. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: some really right in the heart of Italy and where
Speaker 1: where else heart of Italy and also fifties Hollywood glad
Speaker 1: man forget it. Yeah, this is all the ingredients for
Speaker 1: a for a very spicy to meet the ball romance.
Speaker 1: It's gonna be a lot of Italian accents today, um,
Speaker 1: but it's okay. My family is largely Italian, most of
Speaker 1: my dad's side, most of that side is Italian, despite
Speaker 1: somewhere along the way, some somebody married up Banks and
Speaker 1: got that British last name for some reason. I tell
Speaker 1: you I have. I have grandmother's whose last names were
Speaker 1: If I'm getting this right, Screwdado, Shimento and del Bagno.
Speaker 1: So a lot of cool Italian names. I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: Banks has been it's it's my name. I love it,
Speaker 1: but sometimes I'm like, come on, I kind of had
Speaker 1: a Colt, very different player. Yeah, yeah, different mouth feel.
Speaker 1: I always complained that I my my mom's side of
Speaker 1: the family is like tall, pale Scottish Irish people, and
Speaker 1: my dad's started the family is like short, olive skinned Italians.
Speaker 1: And guess what I got, short and pale. Really screwed
Speaker 1: up there. Gotta not trade these jeans out right. If
Speaker 1: I could just do a little swappy swap like Gattica style,
Speaker 1: if I got that Irish height but that Mediterranean skin
Speaker 1: would be unstoppable. Keep your eyes though, wherever they come from,
Speaker 1: all right, yeah, we'll keep the eyes. Nice to know
Speaker 1: you'd keep part of me the same, just the one part.
Speaker 1: Oh well, romances blooming here tonight. Our marriage is going great,
Speaker 1: going great, good, really really showing each other a lot
Speaker 1: about what we really think. Well, uh, let's uh, let's
Speaker 1: dive in with we haven't checked the bag in a while.
Speaker 1: What do you say you looking to it? I think
Speaker 1: I think we've got a mail call. Awesome. Yeah. Randy Jensen,
Speaker 1: a sixth grade teacher in Denmark, reached out on Instagram
Speaker 1: after our Lily Elbe and Gerdo Regnar episode. So that's cool.
Speaker 1: Yeah Denmark. Yeah, Randy wrote, thank you so much for
Speaker 1: your podcast. The laws in Denmark these days still make
Speaker 1: it difficult for trans people. We all have social Security
Speaker 1: numbers and male numbers and uneven and female and even numbers.
Speaker 1: Oh that's interesting. They have social Security like their number
Speaker 1: correlates to their gender. We don't have that. I think
Speaker 1: by state. There's some coding by state that's interesting. And
Speaker 1: Randy says you can change gender, but it is such
Speaker 1: a hard process for the person involved. We're such a
Speaker 1: bureaucratic society, mostly to keep people safe, but sometimes those
Speaker 1: boxes make it hard for people who don't match them. Generally,
Speaker 1: we are open minded and mostly woke, but we did
Speaker 1: get into the latest feminism wave very late, which also
Speaker 1: impacts lgbt Q plus views in public. Interesting which I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, we did talk about the Nazis came through
Speaker 1: and totally decimated all of that type of ship for
Speaker 1: a very long time and for for a decade or more.
Speaker 1: So it's like set the conversation so far back. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so it's kind of no wonder that maybe that would
Speaker 1: take a minute. And uh yeah, it goes on to
Speaker 1: say that some of their students still have sexist and
Speaker 1: homophobic views, but they're trying their best to teach open mindedness.
Speaker 1: So good luck from us, Randy on at absolutely task.
Speaker 1: Teaching open mindedness is incredibly important. It is very important
Speaker 1: and difficulty. Also, Yeah, it's so interesting about the social
Speaker 1: security numbers. I don't really know how it works here.
Speaker 1: If uh, listeners, send us in your social security number,
Speaker 1: and uh we will We'll do a little independent study
Speaker 1: here and try and figure out what we can your
Speaker 1: gender and your social security number. Yeah, includes some other
Speaker 1: details as well. Um, you know, just so we have
Speaker 1: you know, we we can measure all the data Mother's
Speaker 1: made in names. Um, I suppose I'd be curious if
Speaker 1: like you're banking infoe corresponds to your social security numbers.
Speaker 1: So yeah, just send all that type it up shoot
Speaker 1: it over in an email. I think I heard. I heard.
Speaker 1: It's going to be cool with us turning this into
Speaker 1: a big scam. Okay, I think our lawyers have just
Speaker 1: informed me and our lawyers. By the way, as Hobbes
Speaker 1: the dog, he says, he don't do that. Don't send
Speaker 1: me your social Security numbers or your bank account information
Speaker 1: or any personal info you don't want shared. Wow, Hobbs
Speaker 1: is a good lawyer. That's very good advice. He's been
Speaker 1: paying attention. He should put it. He should drop up
Speaker 1: a whill next I bequeath all my bones to me
Speaker 1: that maybe he's not a very very narrow fields to
Speaker 1: the well. That's all very exciting. Thank you Randy for
Speaker 1: writing in so glad people are enjoying that episode. Um,
Speaker 1: if you haven't heard it yet, go check out that
Speaker 1: two parter about Billy Alban Gerda Vagner because it's really fascinating,
Speaker 1: a beautiful story. Yeah, today we've got a totally different story.
Speaker 1: This one A name you've surely heard, I hope, Sophia Louren.
Speaker 1: She is an Academy Award winning actress Italy with nearly
Speaker 1: a hundred acting credits to her name between nineteen fifty
Speaker 1: and today. She navigated the international film market as a compelling, beautiful,
Speaker 1: and hilarious comedic actress while weathering scandal after scandal and
Speaker 1: constant scrutiny from the media in her personal affairs. Her
Speaker 1: husband was the Italian producer Carlo Ponti, a man that
Speaker 1: Tabloid's joked was quote twice her age and half her height.
Speaker 1: But through it all, Sophia and Carlos stood together against
Speaker 1: Hollywood establishment, the American press, and not one but two popes.
Speaker 1: Two popes toe to toe with the popes. So this
Speaker 1: is very exciting story, epic sweeping romance. And I say
Speaker 1: we jump right in. Let's do this. Hey their French
Speaker 1: come listen. Well, Elia and Diana got some stories to tell.
Speaker 1: There's no match making, no romantic tips. It's just about
Speaker 1: particulous relationships, a lover, it might be any type of
Speaker 1: person at all, and abstract cons that draw a concrete wall.
Speaker 1: But if there's a story, were the second glance ridiculous
Speaker 1: Roles a production of I Heart Radio? Okay, So flashing
Speaker 1: a little further back in time, in nineteen thirty two,
Speaker 1: a woman named Romilda Villani entered a contest in Italy
Speaker 1: to find the perfect looklike for the famous actress Greta Garbou. Now,
Speaker 1: MGM had put the contest together to try and find
Speaker 1: someone who could work as a stand in for the starlet,
Speaker 1: and the grand prize for winning this was a ticket
Speaker 1: to Hollywood for a screen test. If you look enough
Speaker 1: like Greta Garbou, we'll fly out here to just make sure,
Speaker 1: yeah for If not, we'll send you back in. You
Speaker 1: probably gott to buy your own plate to get home,
Speaker 1: probably right. It's not no round trip ticket. It's kind
Speaker 1: of like American Idol where your auditioned to go to Hollywood.
Speaker 1: They're like, you going to Holly one and then you
Speaker 1: get there and then you have to win good luck.
Speaker 1: So Romilda was a gifted pianist. She had graduated from
Speaker 1: a conservatory with honors, and she was very talented actress.
Speaker 1: She was beautiful and she won first place as the
Speaker 1: Italian Garbo. But the problem was Ramelda is only seventeen
Speaker 1: years old at the time, so her parents had to
Speaker 1: give approval for her to take this trip to Hollywood,
Speaker 1: and they did not. They were definitely like no, no, no, no, America.
Speaker 1: That's a that's a dangerous, a very tiny girl, you know,
Speaker 1: talking with their hands right right right, you know, spoonful
Speaker 1: of JOCHI slapped on the plate. You keep eating, you're
Speaker 1: not to go into Hollywood, not that you finish your plate,
Speaker 1: and then not at all. So when Ramelda turned eighteen,
Speaker 1: she moved to Rome to try and break into the
Speaker 1: burgeoning phil own business there, and that's when she met
Speaker 1: Ricardo Chicolonne, a construction engineer who had been like hanging
Speaker 1: around the set. And this guy had like a tendency
Speaker 1: to lurk around the fringes of show business and try
Speaker 1: to pick up actresses. One of those Um yeah, he
Speaker 1: would promise big career opportunities and startom and stuff, but
Speaker 1: it didn't really couldn't deliver you fairly that kind of life.
Speaker 1: The boy that I mean this is this is the
Speaker 1: early days of Hollywood, and I mean, surely that's been
Speaker 1: happening in all forms of show business since the downtime,
Speaker 1: but I just, you know, just immediately they're like, hey,
Speaker 1: let's make movies, and then all these creeps run in
Speaker 1: and they're like time to start promising young girls the opportunity. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so I can sleep with him once and then never
Speaker 1: see him again, Like it's got to be so hard
Speaker 1: because if somebody comes up to you and it's like,
Speaker 1: I can give you the opportunities no one else has like,
Speaker 1: or you've got to consider it, right sure, because there's
Speaker 1: a one percent chance that this person would actually do
Speaker 1: that for you. And I mean, if you're if you're
Speaker 1: a good enough scam artist, you can make it look
Speaker 1: like you really got some connections or some kind of
Speaker 1: I don't know, some kind of power. And how are
Speaker 1: you supposed to be able to tell the difference between
Speaker 1: a real agent and a fake one. At that point
Speaker 1: in time, it was pretty hard to tell. I think
Speaker 1: the real agents were also pretty skiezy. Right. It can
Speaker 1: be hard now too, But as I understand it, You know,
Speaker 1: if you're going to be an actor Hollywood, Atlanta, New York,
Speaker 1: wherever you're going, vet everybody, ye ask questions, Ask them questions,
Speaker 1: Ask everyone you know questions about this person. Yeah, don't
Speaker 1: fall for Ricardo hickelone. Don't fall for Ricardo schickelone. We
Speaker 1: need to have like bumper stickers made. No Siclon is here,
Speaker 1: not today sickelone. It might be very nice Hiclone's out there,
Speaker 1: So I don't want to I know, right, Sorry to
Speaker 1: any good schickelone's who are promising real opportunities to young
Speaker 1: women out there in the world. Well, this guy was
Speaker 1: not a great Chiclonne. He totally conned Ramildon into thinking
Speaker 1: that he was some power player in Hollywood. Uh. And
Speaker 1: they did start sleeping together. One day she found out
Speaker 1: she was pregnant at like, like it happens when you
Speaker 1: start sleeping with somebody, and so she went to him
Speaker 1: basically being like he Ricardo, I got a little bitzza
Speaker 1: pie in the urban. Let's get maded. And he says,
Speaker 1: oh no, yes, I think that he looks like Wallouigi.
Speaker 1: I think it looks like Wallowuigi. And he says, oh no,
Speaker 1: that's a spicy made the ball. I got a gut,
Speaker 1: I left my mozzarell and my feetat and I gotta go,
Speaker 1: or something like that. You know, I'm sure it was
Speaker 1: pretty close to what he said and definitely how he
Speaker 1: said it. And he basically he left her alone to
Speaker 1: have this baby by herself, and he skaddled off somewhere.
Speaker 1: Just disclaimer, we love Italy so much. Really, a lot
Speaker 1: of my family and some of our fondest memories I'm
Speaker 1: very sorry around Italy. Mario love the Italian people for
Speaker 1: our super Mario Italian excess. This is just if if
Speaker 1: if Mario was telling the story of yes, hey, it's good.
Speaker 1: This has got to be better than whatever Chris Pratt's
Speaker 1: gonna do. Right, Sure right, I mean go on. So
Speaker 1: on September ninety four, Ramilda gave birth to this child.
Speaker 1: It was Sophia Velani Chiclone. She was born at the
Speaker 1: Clinica Regina Margherita, which I have translated to the Queen's
Speaker 1: Clinic of Basil and Tomatoes. I don't think that's accurate. Um.
Speaker 1: But Ramilda had to move back with her parents where
Speaker 1: she could raise this child because obviously she was unmarried,
Speaker 1: didn't have a lot of prospects, and this wasn't a
Speaker 1: town called pot Swally, And this is a coastal town
Speaker 1: just outside of Naples, and Ramilda worked there as a
Speaker 1: piano instructor. Four years later, Ricardo Chicolone tried to get
Speaker 1: back together with Romilda and she got pregnant again and
Speaker 1: she had a daughter named Maria. Pop quiz for our
Speaker 1: listeners at home, Dianna, you can be their substitute. Here
Speaker 1: did Ricardo a use this opportunity to make amends for
Speaker 1: his earlier behavior Mary Ramilda and accept responsibility for his children,
Speaker 1: or be deny the kid, leave Ramilda to raise her
Speaker 1: on her own, and more or less disappear until the
Speaker 1: family was wealthy and he needed money. Yes, that's the
Speaker 1: saddest correct answer of all time. Yes, he sucked, he
Speaker 1: left um. The family was struggling to survive in pot Swally.
Speaker 1: This is actually an important harbor town, and they were
Speaker 1: bombed very heavily during World War Two. At one point,
Speaker 1: while the family was running to a shelter for cover,
Speaker 1: shrapnel sent Sophia flying and split open her chin, leaving
Speaker 1: a lifetime scar. And the family was starving throughout this
Speaker 1: and and well after. For five years they lived in
Speaker 1: long stretches without food or water or electricity. During the famine,
Speaker 1: Ramilda had to siphon condensation off of a car radiator
Speaker 1: just to get water for her daughters. Do you think
Speaker 1: like where you're scraping like fucking drops of dew into
Speaker 1: a little vial or something that you're just like, have
Speaker 1: we regressed to cave people or something? Again? Because cool,
Speaker 1: glad y'all got your war? Yeah, so Ramilda is a
Speaker 1: complete badass. Obviously, she's making it work. She's scraping the
Speaker 1: water off the radiator and keeping everyone alive. And after
Speaker 1: the war they opened a pub in their live room
Speaker 1: where Ramilda played piano while Maria sang and Sophia waited tables.
Speaker 1: So it's pretty innovative. We have an entrepreneur in our
Speaker 1: midst And as things start to turn around for them,
Speaker 1: Ramilda decide she wants her daughter to have the opportunities
Speaker 1: that she did not have, so she moved with the
Speaker 1: family to Rome and got Sophia into beauty pageants. Now,
Speaker 1: Sophia had been small and weak looking after the famine
Speaker 1: and everything, and kids in her school even nicknamed her studente,
Speaker 1: which means toothpick. They're like, Sophie, you're looking like a
Speaker 1: piece off to cheney. But when she turned fourteen, like overnight,
Speaker 1: she suddenly sprung up. She got super tall and statuesque,
Speaker 1: and she started to look like, you know, Sophia Laurent,
Speaker 1: famously beautiful woman. And she won her first beauty pageant year.
Speaker 1: The prize was a little cash and some free wallpaper,
Speaker 1: which she put in her grandparents living room. They're just
Speaker 1: like whether we got lying around here. You won the
Speaker 1: beauty pageant. Here's m here's a some walt paper and uh,
Speaker 1: here's some old bottle caps. I go out in my pocket.
Speaker 1: Here's a half of Calzona. How much cash? So do
Speaker 1: I have? Twenty seven dollars? And congratulations. And in nineteen fifty,
Speaker 1: when Sophia was fifteen, under the stage name Sophia Lazaro,
Speaker 1: she won Miss Elegance in the Miss Italia pageants. Oh
Speaker 1: Miss Elegance. That's pretty good. Yeah, that's pretty good. And
Speaker 1: shortly after this she and Romilda both started picking up
Speaker 1: bit parts in films at China Chita, which was this
Speaker 1: big film studio in Rome started by Italy's own Benito Mussolini.
Speaker 1: You know, famed film the creator. Yeah, yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: you know, famed filmmaker Banito Musolini did other stuff, I think,
Speaker 1: but that's the main thing. And he actually founded it
Speaker 1: not just to make propaganda films, although that was definitely
Speaker 1: definitely part of the reason, but he actually was trying
Speaker 1: to make Italy. I mean, he was trying to give
Speaker 1: Italy some industry, some kind of revenue and gross domestic product,
Speaker 1: and they were trying to be the European answer to Hollywood. Right,
Speaker 1: that was ninety seven that Mussolini started this film studio,
Speaker 1: so this is some time later that Sophia is getting
Speaker 1: involved in the well. By the time Sophia was sixteen,
Speaker 1: people in the industry had been pushing her to start
Speaker 1: taking acting classes, and that same year she entered another
Speaker 1: beauty pageant and the panel of judges included a thirty
Speaker 1: seven year old film producer named Carlo Ponti. Carlo Punty
Speaker 1: was a lawyer initially, and he used to negotiate contracts
Speaker 1: for other filmmakers, but this got him interested in producing himself,
Speaker 1: and by nineteen forty he ended up being a central
Speaker 1: figure in trying to build up a film industry in Milan.
Speaker 1: He even produced a period film that year called Old
Speaker 1: Fashioned World, which was about this struggle between Italy and
Speaker 1: Austria in the eighteen hundreds during Italy's unification, and the
Speaker 1: film was hugely popular because people saw it as as
Speaker 1: it was a direct and obvious parallel to how the
Speaker 1: Nazis were treating Italy, and he was even briefly jailed
Speaker 1: around this time for undermining relations with Nazi Germany. Of course,
Speaker 1: around here we applaud anyone who undermines relations with Nazi
Speaker 1: Way to go, Carlo. Yes, Carlo very heavily anti fascist,
Speaker 1: was not into it um at a time in Italy
Speaker 1: where I think you were one of the others. I
Speaker 1: understand it. Yeah. So in nineteen forty six Carlo married
Speaker 1: a woman named Juliana Fiestri, and in nineteen fifty they
Speaker 1: had a daughter named Gwenda Lena. Then in ninety one,
Speaker 1: as a leading figure in Italy's film industry, he got
Speaker 1: a phone call from a friend that was like, hey, Carlo,
Speaker 1: you want to come be the judge for the pretty Ladies?
Speaker 1: And he says yes, He goes and he takes on
Speaker 1: this this you know, honor, to be a judge in
Speaker 1: this pageant, and he's watching all these ladies come out.
Speaker 1: He's like, hey, here's a romana, here's romana for the genie,
Speaker 1: here's uh, here's Roberto Bianco, here's uh, here's Esbrelda, there's
Speaker 1: the moona whatever. And he's like, yes, yes, see, see
Speaker 1: see Lady Linden. And then outsteps Sophia Lazaro and suddenly
Speaker 1: Carlo sees her and just the moon hits his eye
Speaker 1: like a big pizza pie, and he just thought that
Speaker 1: she was the most amazing sixteen year old girl he'd
Speaker 1: ever seen in his thirty seven years on this planet.
Speaker 1: Good pretty girl. Uncomfortable start to this romance, not great.
Speaker 1: Carlo did kind of get obsessed with her, but at
Speaker 1: first it was all professional. He thought she was just
Speaker 1: gonna be the next big thing. He thought she had it,
Speaker 1: you know, she had that certain something that made a
Speaker 1: star or whatever, and he figured that the sky was
Speaker 1: the limit if she just had the right guidance, not
Speaker 1: a not a shiclone. So he helped her navigate the
Speaker 1: film industry, and he got her minor roles in more
Speaker 1: and more movies. She started taking acting classes and rubbing
Speaker 1: elbows with industry giants, and all the while she's like
Speaker 1: enthralled by Carlo's knowledge and guidance and kindness. She later
Speaker 1: said of him, I felt at home with him. I
Speaker 1: was terribly young, and he gave me confidence. Each time
Speaker 1: I did something that he liked, he would always say,
Speaker 1: you should always do that, And yes, this gave me confidence.
Speaker 1: He was protective and he took my insecurities away. Yes,
Speaker 1: he looked and sounded like he would take care of me,
Speaker 1: which no other man had done. Totally good. I mean,
Speaker 1: her dad freaking doubt twice left her mom to be
Speaker 1: scraping water off a car radiat or soya, this is
Speaker 1: very very interested in a father figure. Yes, at least
Speaker 1: at least a male presence. Yeah, that's like comforting and
Speaker 1: not like adding to your work. And like she's like,
Speaker 1: what if, what's this guy that like takes care of
Speaker 1: you and makes life easier? Where's that guy? So yeah,
Speaker 1: he seems to be that. He was just very affirming
Speaker 1: and kind and he didn't seem to be trying to
Speaker 1: get into you know, her pantaloni whatever. And in fact,
Speaker 1: in n he had a second child with his wife,
Speaker 1: a son they called Alex. Would be working out okay,
Speaker 1: or or they're having a baby to save their marriage.
Speaker 1: I don't know, it could could go either way. Speculation stage.
Speaker 1: That's same year, nineteenft three, Sophia is hanging out with
Speaker 1: Carlo and another producer named Geoffrey Lombardo, and they're all
Speaker 1: talking about how Sophia can finally just break through and
Speaker 1: really show everybody what she got, you know, and like
Speaker 1: any day now we we gotta there's we're right up
Speaker 1: at the finish line. We just need to cross it,
Speaker 1: and they came up with this idea for a name change.
Speaker 1: Sophia Lazaro was, you know, a bit part actress in Italy.
Speaker 1: She was That's who you get. If you need somebody
Speaker 1: to play this small part, you get Sophia Lazaro. She's
Speaker 1: very funny, she's very pretty. They need a rebrand exactly.
Speaker 1: They needed something global, a new person. So Lombardo starts thinking, hey,
Speaker 1: you know that the f and Sophia it's uh, you know,
Speaker 1: it's a do Italian. The English speaking people they love
Speaker 1: a pH telephone, you know, Philosophia. You know, it's always
Speaker 1: a pH with them. So let's make it Sophia with
Speaker 1: a pH. And Carlos like, yeah, yeah, that's a good,
Speaker 1: that's a good. I like this, and Lazaro, this gotta go.
Speaker 1: It sounds like it sounds like it sounds like something
Speaker 1: I ordered her at the coffee shop. You know, I'll
Speaker 1: take a Venti Lazaro. You know. So there's this very
Speaker 1: popular Swedish actress at the time named Martha Torrne. So
Speaker 1: they decide let's spend that name a little bit, and
Speaker 1: they welcomed to the world a movie star named Sophia
Speaker 1: Lorent What a thought process that name in. In ninety three,
Speaker 1: she started her breakout role in a film adaptation of
Speaker 1: the popular opera Aida, where she played Aida, the Ethiopian princess.
Speaker 1: And yeah it's bad. I mean, you know, you can
Speaker 1: look it up, but she's wearing a lot of bronze
Speaker 1: and it's not good. Yeah, it's not good. We'll we'll
Speaker 1: go ahead and blame that on the producers for not
Speaker 1: making the same effort to make a black actress famous
Speaker 1: with a part that would be perfect for a black actress.
Speaker 1: I mean they could have been looking around for that years.
Speaker 1: Zozzi beats, but no, that puts so much work into
Speaker 1: making sephil or end famous. They could have put half
Speaker 1: that effort, you know, just black actress and been like, hey,
Speaker 1: you should play Aida in this movie. But no, no, no,
Speaker 1: they had to. They had to darken sophia En skin
Speaker 1: very uncomfortable, bad, bad bad, and the singing was dubbed
Speaker 1: by this superstar Renata Tibaldi, and another actress had actually
Speaker 1: turned down the part because she didn't want to be dubbed,
Speaker 1: to which Sophia answered, quote, I couldn't afford to be
Speaker 1: so proud, that's true. I mean I'm just starting out,
Speaker 1: You're like, yeah, dubbed me like in my first movie.
Speaker 1: At this point, I just need the money. I already
Speaker 1: got to deal with the black face, you know, like
Speaker 1: I mean for real, like oh man, Well, speaking of
Speaker 1: appearances and appropriateness, Sophia started to get a taste at
Speaker 1: this point for how the film industry is infested with
Speaker 1: aganistic dick bags, because cameraman started saying, and I'm telling
Speaker 1: you this is true. I've had a hard time wrapping
Speaker 1: my brain around it. But cameraman started saying of her
Speaker 1: that Sophia loren wasn't pretty enough to be a star.
Speaker 1: They said her mouth was too wide, and her chin
Speaker 1: was too broad, and her nose was too big. What Sophia,
Speaker 1: Lorena just want to make sure everybody knows who were
Speaker 1: talking about here. And they said she was not attractive
Speaker 1: enough to be a movie star. And one day Carlo
Speaker 1: came to her and said, quote, you know, the camera men,
Speaker 1: they say that your nose is a too long. Maybe
Speaker 1: you have to touch it a little bit, to which
Speaker 1: Sophia replied, quote, I don't want to touch nothing on
Speaker 1: my face because I like in my face. If I
Speaker 1: have to change my nose, I'm going back to Potswati. Yes,
Speaker 1: she just gave him that Italian attitude. She's like, don't
Speaker 1: you talk about my nose? Okay, And also her nose
Speaker 1: is small, like she doesn't have she's got a beautiful nose. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I like your face too, so feel her in. Like yeah,
Speaker 1: they she said like that everyone was looking for the
Speaker 1: this French little French turned up nose around that time,
Speaker 1: and she's like, can you imagine my face with one
Speaker 1: of those noses? No, I can't because your face is perfect.
Speaker 1: Feel her in. That's how they do, though they give
Speaker 1: you some real unrealistic ship like with Judy Garland, they
Speaker 1: were just kept being like you need to be thinner,
Speaker 1: and they weren't that. I mean, they basically want a
Speaker 1: skeleton and address it's saying, I like people have skin
Speaker 1: and like fat and from you, like you're literally wasting
Speaker 1: these women away for nothing, looking for something that can't
Speaker 1: be a thing, Like that's not anyway. So I'm glad
Speaker 1: Sophia at least knew that she had a pretty fucking face.
Speaker 1: And she was like, you know what, I'm keeping my face.
Speaker 1: Yeah it is. And she was like if you don't
Speaker 1: like it, then I'm going home. Yeah, I'll take my
Speaker 1: nose and I'll leave you know, home where on multiple
Speaker 1: beauty pagets. But around this time she's nineteen and despite Nosegate,
Speaker 1: Sophia starts to realize that she is in love with Carlo,
Speaker 1: and they grew closer and closer until they were practically inseparable,
Speaker 1: and soon their affairs started. She felt like nobody really
Speaker 1: saw her like he did, and she wrote that he
Speaker 1: saw her quote reserved personality, difficult past, and great longing
Speaker 1: to be successful seriously and with passion. Rachel Grebben writes
Speaker 1: in Propeller magazine that Sophia's passion and intensity is clear
Speaker 1: in her movies, with her focus and intensity showing a
Speaker 1: woman who was at a certain level acting as if
Speaker 1: her life depends on it, and Carlo was her mentor
Speaker 1: and manager, but he was also incredibly supportive and validating.
Speaker 1: So you know, it's tough with these age despaired especially
Speaker 1: when Carlo is clearly a mentor in a mentor position
Speaker 1: with her. You know, if their relationship was happening today,
Speaker 1: there would probably be some kind of conversation around whether
Speaker 1: or not he groomed her from a young age to
Speaker 1: fall in love with him or something like that, and that,
Speaker 1: I mean, I think it would be fair to ask that.
Speaker 1: But anyway that that will come up again. We'll probably
Speaker 1: get more into that as we go. But right now
Speaker 1: they're just in love and they're having a wonderful affair
Speaker 1: and everything is great and they want to be together.
Speaker 1: But they couldn't just run off into the sunset live
Speaker 1: happily ever after, because even though Carlo's marriage was indeed
Speaker 1: already falling apart, and he and his wife both amicably
Speaker 1: wanted to be separated. But Italy, if you haven't heard,
Speaker 1: is super Catholic. No way, Yeah, some say that, like
Speaker 1: you know, maybe the most the most Catholic place, and
Speaker 1: at this time, divorce is very illegal. The Vatican just
Speaker 1: flat out would not allow it. And Sophia herself was
Speaker 1: a very traditional Catholic, not so much religious. She was
Speaker 1: a religious, but not deeply religious person, but she was
Speaker 1: a very traditional person, and she also came from a
Speaker 1: very fractured family and she did not want the same
Speaker 1: to happen to her. She wanted stability and tradition. They
Speaker 1: both wanted to be married. Meanwhile, they also both wanted
Speaker 1: Sophia to take the next step in her acting career
Speaker 1: and go to America to make big Hollywood movies. So
Speaker 1: coming up, we'll find out if Sophia and Carlo managed
Speaker 1: to get married and the very very famous Hollywood side
Speaker 1: piece that almost derailed them. So we'll be right back
Speaker 1: and welcome back to the show. So Carlo and Sophia
Speaker 1: are going strong, and as much as they tried to
Speaker 1: keep their relationship out of the spotlight, of course rumors
Speaker 1: are flying. Tabloids are desperate it to put them in
Speaker 1: headlines as often as possible, and you know, just gossip
Speaker 1: rags because I mean, this is a rising international superstar
Speaker 1: and a man twenty one years older than her who
Speaker 1: was already married, so you know, is page six fodder
Speaker 1: for days and days and days and days. And Carlo
Speaker 1: actually proposed to Sophia in secret in nineteen fifty four
Speaker 1: and gave her like a big fat diamond ring. But
Speaker 1: Sophia was still kind of depressed because she's so desperately
Speaker 1: wanted like a legitimate marriage and family. It's like all
Speaker 1: this secrecy and running around was just not sexy for her.
Speaker 1: She didn't like that it wasn't the vibe she was
Speaker 1: going for. But they continued on as best they could
Speaker 1: in both their relationship and their careers. Carlo helped Sophia
Speaker 1: get English speaking lessons, and now she's finally starting to
Speaker 1: get some real international recognition as a leading lady, and
Speaker 1: this led to her getting the lead role in the
Speaker 1: nine movie The Pride and the Passion, opposite two big
Speaker 1: Hollywood stars, Frank Sinatra and Carrie Grant, And that brings
Speaker 1: us right into this episode side action. Oh yeah, Frank
Speaker 1: Sinatra and Carrie Grant. When I think those names, I think, uh,
Speaker 1: treating women well and fidelity, you know, really strong moral
Speaker 1: character constancy. That's what I think of. So this film,
Speaker 1: The Pride in the Passion is an American Hollywood movie,
Speaker 1: but they're shooting in Spain. The rumors are that Frank
Speaker 1: Sinatra wanted to be closer to his wife, Ava Gardner,
Speaker 1: who was shooting The Sun also rises in Spain at
Speaker 1: the time, and they were having a rough time in
Speaker 1: their marriage. So Frank was like, let's let's shoot in
Speaker 1: Spain so I can be close to her, maybe try
Speaker 1: and salvage this thing. Meanwhile, Carrie Grant was, yeah, it
Speaker 1: sounds great, let's shoot in Spain. Because he was trying
Speaker 1: to get some distance from his wife, who was his
Speaker 1: third wife, actress and writer Betsy Drake. Damn funny. One
Speaker 1: wants to be closer, one wants to be further away.
Speaker 1: It all worked out great. That's just so Hollywood, isn't it.
Speaker 1: So suddenly this two year old Sophia Loren finds herself
Speaker 1: being charmed and enchanted by Carrie Grant, who is actually
Speaker 1: thirty years older than her. So he's even older than
Speaker 1: her than Carlo Pontiez. He's fifty two at this point.
Speaker 1: She wrote in her autobiography that carry won her over
Speaker 1: with good manners and excitement and quote a zest for life.
Speaker 1: She said it was fortunate that they were staying in
Speaker 1: two separate hotels because that kept some distance between them,
Speaker 1: because she was like, I tried to keep a certain distance.
Speaker 1: She's like, I wasn't trying to get too involved, but
Speaker 1: I did kind of like this guy. You know, he
Speaker 1: was very charming. She had this kind of schoolgirl crush
Speaker 1: on him. And they talked and found out that they
Speaker 1: had a lot in common. They had a rough upbringing.
Speaker 1: They were swept up by the film industry. That very
Speaker 1: much changed you know who who They were. He actually
Speaker 1: also changed his name early on to Carry Grant. Do
Speaker 1: you know, do you know his original name. It's very British. Oh,
Speaker 1: is it like angle Bird humberd Ink type British Archibald Leech,
Speaker 1: Archibald Leech. Yeah, that sounds like a kid's book series,
Speaker 1: like a detective Archibald Leech Archibald Leeches. Yes, totally. And
Speaker 1: he sold everything by asking a single quick. Yeah. He
Speaker 1: was a London stage actor before going to Hollywood. He
Speaker 1: was Archibald Leech in England and then they were like
Speaker 1: that's not going to work over here. Think what's the
Speaker 1: most American name you can think of? How about Carry Grant.
Speaker 1: We'll give you two men's names, Carry and Grant. Carrie
Speaker 1: Grant said that sometimes he felt his on screen persona
Speaker 1: started to infect his personality. He once said, quote, I
Speaker 1: pretended to become a certain type of man on screen,
Speaker 1: and I became that man in life. I became Carry Grant,
Speaker 1: which makes more sense that it's not even his real name.
Speaker 1: Like he's like, I'm Archibald Leech from London and now
Speaker 1: I'm Carry groan out. That's totally different. Yeah, he's like
Speaker 1: I turned into that, you know, he always played like
Speaker 1: playboys and wealthy men and you know, you know, just
Speaker 1: shelling out cash and sailing on yachts and stuff, and
Speaker 1: he's like, I turned into that guy. Kind of it
Speaker 1: kind of shows, you know, Hollywood can can can screw
Speaker 1: people up in all kinds of different ways. I mean,
Speaker 1: it can make a really normal person into kind of
Speaker 1: a LEAs bag. That's true and well, and it kind
Speaker 1: of shows that you do have to sort of play
Speaker 1: a character in order to operate in Hollywood. Even just
Speaker 1: in normal life and everyday interactions, you still have to
Speaker 1: be carry Grant or whomever you are, and like I
Speaker 1: can really skew ship. You know they talk about like
Speaker 1: cops going undercover and getting too getting into deep. You know,
Speaker 1: it changed their personality and now they're one of the
Speaker 1: Buffio guys or whatever. But like you don't ever think
Speaker 1: about that with like actors who really or or anyone
Speaker 1: famous who literally has to have a different personality in
Speaker 1: order like a public persona, And it might kind of
Speaker 1: like take over and Glomanta what used to be there?
Speaker 1: Happened to me? Oh yeah, yeah, I used to be
Speaker 1: very different than the character that hosts this show. But
Speaker 1: since we've started I really found myself morphing into him. Yeah,
Speaker 1: what's different? Oh you know, um, I sit down a
Speaker 1: lot more, that's it. But yeah. But so Sophia at
Speaker 1: this time is so vulnerable. I mean she could still
Speaker 1: barely speak English at this point. I mean this was
Speaker 1: her first English speaking movie. So actually her lines were
Speaker 1: written out phonetically on q car for her to read
Speaker 1: while they were filming, so that she could get it,
Speaker 1: you know, pronunciations right and stuff. So he's over here
Speaker 1: playing Carry Grant in real life, a handsome playboy, handing
Speaker 1: out expensive gifts and stuff, you know, and she's feeling
Speaker 1: kind of out of her elements in the middle of
Speaker 1: this Hollywood set, trying to speak a language she doesn't speak,
Speaker 1: you know. So of course she's turning to him for comfort,
Speaker 1: you know. Of course she's she's like, yes, let me,
Speaker 1: you know, curl up in this powerful man's embrace, ye,
Speaker 1: and let him take care of me. So the pride
Speaker 1: and the passion raps shooting. But Carry is not ready
Speaker 1: to say goodbye to Sophia. His wife, Betsy Drake, had
Speaker 1: written a screenplay called Houseboat, which they were supposed to
Speaker 1: star in together. Betsy and Carry instead Carry Grant pulls
Speaker 1: this ship. He goes to the producers and he says,
Speaker 1: I want Sophia in that part instead, and they end
Speaker 1: up rewriting the script, recasting his wife with Sophia, and
Speaker 1: ultimately Betsy got zero credit as a screenwriter. Yes, yes, children,
Speaker 1: who that's right. This is a bad man name. I
Speaker 1: gotta say. I love Carrie Grant, the actor, I mean
Speaker 1: arsenic and old. Lace is one of the funniest movies,
Speaker 1: and he is amazing in it, but he sucks, not
Speaker 1: good with women. And again it's you could go back
Speaker 1: and say, well, look what this industry turned him into,
Speaker 1: but you know there's a certain level of personal responsibility
Speaker 1: as well. Sure, so anyway, they're shooting this movie house Boat,
Speaker 1: and their affair starts heating up. In fact, the director
Speaker 1: of house Boat, Melville Shovelson, later complained that Carrie and
Speaker 1: Sophia's sexual tension made the movie really difficult to shoot,
Speaker 1: and the Hollywood gossip columns were like all over this,
Speaker 1: so they're all up in their face all the time too.
Speaker 1: When Sophia first arrived in Hollywood, there was a huge
Speaker 1: reception in her honor at this like hot fancy restaurant,
Speaker 1: you know, you know, the hot spot or whatever, and
Speaker 1: the Papa Rozzie was swarming around. Everyone's trying to get
Speaker 1: a glimpse of this new Italian bombshell. But a more
Speaker 1: established actress, Jane Mansfield, showed up in this ridiculously low
Speaker 1: cut dress, like it is barely clear in the nipples.
Speaker 1: Fair it is very low, yet she's like spilling out
Speaker 1: all over the place. And there's this famous picture of
Speaker 1: the two of them with Jane laughing. Sophia is sitting
Speaker 1: next to her and like totally side eyeing her cleavage.
Speaker 1: It's an amazing picture, schoogle Jane Mainsfield and Sophia Loren.
Speaker 1: Her face says it all. Yes, she Sophia later said, quote,
Speaker 1: she came right from my table. She knew everyone was watching.
Speaker 1: She sat down, Look at the picture. Where are my eyes?
Speaker 1: I'm staring at her nipples because I'm afraid they're going
Speaker 1: to come onto my plate. I'm so frightened that everything
Speaker 1: in her dress is gonna blow boom and spill all
Speaker 1: over the t able. You can see it. You can
Speaker 1: see that in her eyes. You can see it. She's like,
Speaker 1: it's not the kind of attention I was looking for. Tonight,
Speaker 1: but historians agree that this was totally a calculated move
Speaker 1: by Jane Mansfield, who at the time, you know, was
Speaker 1: like an on genue. So to Jane, she's like, Oh,
Speaker 1: here comes this busty sex object and she's going to
Speaker 1: snatch up all the roles, the busty sex object roles
Speaker 1: that I want for summers, even though Sophia had all
Speaker 1: previously only been in comedies, so she wasn't like an
Speaker 1: ingenue leading woman at this point in her career. Vanity
Speaker 1: Fair rights to quote. Jane Mansfield was there to prove
Speaker 1: that there were already homegrown sex goddesses in residence, and
Speaker 1: Sofia could tell that she was trying to kind of
Speaker 1: like funk with her a little bit. And Sofia also
Speaker 1: knew that in Hollywood, Italian people were only waiters or gangsters,
Speaker 1: so she she knew she was up against some real obstacles. Yeah,
Speaker 1: one being Jane Mansfield's tips and another and another being racism,
Speaker 1: right raxinophobia at least. Yeah, So they start shooting house
Speaker 1: Boat and Carrie Grant is really trying to make this
Speaker 1: thing work with Sophia. He starts suggesting to her that
Speaker 1: they should pray together. For guidance about whether they should
Speaker 1: leave their respective partners for each other. One letter he
Speaker 1: sent her read quote, Sophia, you'll be in my prayers.
Speaker 1: If you think and pray with me for the same
Speaker 1: thing and purpose, all will be right and life will
Speaker 1: be good. And he sends her flowers almost every day,
Speaker 1: and she found in him something very similar to what
Speaker 1: attracted her to Carlo, this guiding, thoughtful, older man who
Speaker 1: had turned his focus entirely towards her well being. Before
Speaker 1: she arrived in America to shoot house Boat, he wrote
Speaker 1: to her saying, this is probably the most important year
Speaker 1: of your life. Spend it thoughtfully, dear face. In these
Speaker 1: next months you will create lasting impressions by which you'll
Speaker 1: be judged and remembered all your life. And he gave
Speaker 1: her two gold bracelets and told her she should always
Speaker 1: wear them because they would keep her safe. But you
Speaker 1: know what, she actually took his advice to heart because
Speaker 1: she knew she was going to be judged all her
Speaker 1: life for this. Yeah, just like you said. Yeah. Carry.
Speaker 1: Grant got closer and closer with her. Eventually they started
Speaker 1: talking about marriage. There's rumors that he proposed on set
Speaker 1: on the set of houseboat, but Sophia has since denied that. Um.
Speaker 1: But ultimately she turned him down because she still wanted
Speaker 1: to marry Carlo Ponti. She said a lot about this
Speaker 1: over the years, and part of her decision was the
Speaker 1: threat of scandal. She said, quote the American press had
Speaker 1: been very cruel to Ingrid Bergmann when she left her
Speaker 1: husband for Italian director Roberto Rossellini, and I was terribly
Speaker 1: afraid of what the reaction would have been if I
Speaker 1: had left Italy, and her Italian home was all so
Speaker 1: a very big part of her choice as well. Um,
Speaker 1: because Carrie Grant, you know, she's sort of like, if
Speaker 1: she's marrying Carrie Grant, she's sort of like, now I'm
Speaker 1: an American. I live in Hollywood with Carry Grant, and
Speaker 1: that's it. But if she was with Carlo, she would
Speaker 1: still have a very strong tide of her home country.
Speaker 1: They would probably live in Italy, you know. So it
Speaker 1: felt almost seems like a choice between not only two men,
Speaker 1: but also two different lifestyles, two different parts of the globe,
Speaker 1: like a lot of different different considerations. And yeah, she
Speaker 1: said in Hollywood she was really fatigued by the film
Speaker 1: circuit there. She said all she ever talked about with cinema,
Speaker 1: with everyone she knew. She said, quote, I missed my
Speaker 1: country steeped in history, with humanity, ordinary people just didn't
Speaker 1: seem to exist in Hollywood. She told Vanity Fair quote
Speaker 1: Carlo was Italian, he belonged to my world. I know
Speaker 1: it was the right thing for me to do. So
Speaker 1: she gave carry Grant the boot, although they did remain
Speaker 1: close friends throughout their lives, so he didn't take it
Speaker 1: too personally. Reports Worth that he was a little upset
Speaker 1: when she found out that she and Carlo were getting married,
Speaker 1: but he's you know, he was okay. They were friends,
Speaker 1: and she decided for sure, yes Carlo, I need to
Speaker 1: marry him. I'm going to make this life happen. But
Speaker 1: not so fast. There's still Carlo's marriage the Juliana Fiastria
Speaker 1: to worry about, and they would have to go toe
Speaker 1: to toe with the Pope himself to make it work.
Speaker 1: What a disasty, I see. So we are going to
Speaker 1: pick a fight with the pope right after this commercial break.
Speaker 1: How do you like that? Sponsors? We're going to pick
Speaker 1: a fight with and we're back and ready to take
Speaker 1: on another supreme religious leader in the name of love.
Speaker 1: How we do on the show, Well, they keep getting
Speaker 1: in the way. I right, bunch of really just leaders
Speaker 1: in the way of that one. Tons also popes actually
Speaker 1: that one. Well, in nineteen fifty seven, Carlo thought he
Speaker 1: had it all figured out. His lawyers were working overtime
Speaker 1: now to get them married and speculation station. I think
Speaker 1: maybe this is because, like you know, Carrie Grant is
Speaker 1: out there proposing to her, like, come on, we gotta
Speaker 1: get this movie in. Like I think she's gonna be
Speaker 1: in a movie with like Humphrey Bogart next, I don't know, Like,
Speaker 1: hurry up, guys, you gotta lock this down. He's like,
Speaker 1: that's so great, honey, I'm so excited about the move.
Speaker 1: And he immediately turns around. He's like, how do you up, guys,
Speaker 1: It's the time to get married. She's getting some really
Speaker 1: hot parts. It's some really hot guys. Have you seen
Speaker 1: the meat. I'm a twice at age and half her height.
Speaker 1: So his lawyers come back and they're like, sir, we
Speaker 1: found a loophole. We can divorce you and Juliana and
Speaker 1: marry you and Sophia all in Mexico. You don't even
Speaker 1: need to be there. Oh, perfect, yeah, and he's like
Speaker 1: see see yes, spaghassi, sprigarci spearci. That's Italian for hurry up.
Speaker 1: According to Google Translate, takes longer to say sprigarci. S
Speaker 1: got we got a sprigarcy with this episode, so they
Speaker 1: just do it. It's September, right before Sophia's twenty five birthday,
Speaker 1: and neither of them had even gotten the official word
Speaker 1: that the marriage had gone through before they read it
Speaker 1: in a gossip column that next morning. So, honey, if
Speaker 1: you heard were marriage, yeah right here on page three.
Speaker 1: So even Carlo was surprised and finally happened. They returned
Speaker 1: to Italy and they go to Capri to celebrate both occasions,
Speaker 1: their wedding and her twenty five birthday. I'd love to
Speaker 1: go to Capri to celebrate my freaking birthday. Well, we
Speaker 1: did go to Capri to celebrate our freaking wedding. That's
Speaker 1: that's something that's true. In fact, let's take a little
Speaker 1: break here and reminisce. Let's take a little reminiscence break
Speaker 1: about our amazing honeymoon where we got to spend a
Speaker 1: day in on the Isle of Capri. It's true because
Speaker 1: we were staying on Sorrento. Sorrento one of my favorite
Speaker 1: places in the world ever. Get to go there, really gorgeous.
Speaker 1: And we went to Pompey one day and then another
Speaker 1: day we went to Capri. Capri, took a little boat
Speaker 1: ride out. We had this bed and breakfast we were
Speaker 1: staying in. It was incredible and they were so nice.
Speaker 1: Barbara maybe the best cappuccino I ever had. Um so good.
Speaker 1: The breakfast was so good every morning, and she was
Speaker 1: kind of a grumpy Polish lady, but she was awesome, perfect.
Speaker 1: It was amazing. And uh, we got to take a
Speaker 1: boat ride out to Capri, which is this little island
Speaker 1: off the coast of Naples, and it's incredible. It's just
Speaker 1: this tiny little village. Um these cliffs we got to
Speaker 1: we got to swim. The water was amazing. It was cold,
Speaker 1: was cold because it was the middle of October, but
Speaker 1: well yeah, but it was so clear, god, beautiful color.
Speaker 1: I mean, you had to get in because the Mediterranean
Speaker 1: what we're not get in were I remember a shivering
Speaker 1: in the water being like, but we have to swim
Speaker 1: in the really enjoyed this, damn it also just to
Speaker 1: tangent off on this little bit. Capri is known for
Speaker 1: their lemon cello, which is a lemon flavored liqueur. It's
Speaker 1: very thick and sweet and um. Well, Danna wanted to
Speaker 1: tell us about lemon cello. I mean, I vomited that
Speaker 1: I didn't vomit, but I really do hate The taste
Speaker 1: of it is just awful, heinous. I don't understand the
Speaker 1: point of it. Horrible in every way. The Americans that
Speaker 1: we were on the boat trip with, at one point
Speaker 1: we all had lunch together and one of them bought
Speaker 1: a round of lemon cello shots for everyone or whatever.
Speaker 1: It's like a treat forever, so nice, you know, whatever,
Speaker 1: we took it. I was like, I was like, I
Speaker 1: am so grossed out. I think I had to finish yours.
Speaker 1: I think so because I was trying to be polite,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, you know, for me, it's like if
Speaker 1: someone gets you something, you kind of have to finish it.
Speaker 1: Like it's really rude to not so I was like
Speaker 1: trying so hard. I was so gross And we get
Speaker 1: back on the boat and everything's great, and the captain
Speaker 1: takes us back to to our port, you know, so
Speaker 1: into Sorrento or whatever. To get on the van back
Speaker 1: to where we go, wherever we're staying, and as we
Speaker 1: pull up to port, He's like, and now a complimentary
Speaker 1: shot of lemon cello for everyone. Diana just turns green.
Speaker 1: I think I might have done like a sitcom thing,
Speaker 1: right straight up through whatever into the ocean. They have
Speaker 1: done that, literally, But it was such an amazing time.
Speaker 1: I would definitely drink lemon cello again. If that was
Speaker 1: the cost of going to Catherine, I would do it.
Speaker 1: I really, if I could devote my self to a cause,
Speaker 1: it would be to provide travel to everyone. I mean,
Speaker 1: everybody should be able to travel. You know, we were
Speaker 1: able to do it for this honeymoon because we did
Speaker 1: like a honey fund or we just collected money instead
Speaker 1: of gifts, and that was and that was everything we wanted.
Speaker 1: We didn't need stuff. We just wanted to take a trip,
Speaker 1: and we're able to take this amazing trip. And I
Speaker 1: just wish everyone could do that, because it's not fair
Speaker 1: that people can't. And this if if you, if you
Speaker 1: get the chance um to ever go to Italy, I
Speaker 1: I highly recommend Sorrento. I loved it. It is it
Speaker 1: is a beach town. I mean, not like Florida. It is,
Speaker 1: but it is very heavily Yeah, it's very heavily frequented
Speaker 1: by British tourists especially, but it's because it's remarkable. It's gorgeous.
Speaker 1: The food is some of the best food I've ever
Speaker 1: eaten in my life. I'm still thinking about this caprice
Speaker 1: salad like a salad, you guys, I'm dreaming of it
Speaker 1: and message us so will give you the name of
Speaker 1: the of the B and B that we stayed at.
Speaker 1: We gotta look it up. But yeah, they were and
Speaker 1: the rooms were so beautiful. Yeah that that was just
Speaker 1: an amazing trip. And yeah, for us, we didn't need
Speaker 1: dishes and stuff, we'd already gived together for a few
Speaker 1: years and stuff, And it was the greatest gift that
Speaker 1: we could have gotten because we had such an incredible
Speaker 1: start to our marriage. It was such I guess you
Speaker 1: could say a life changing trip in a lot of ways,
Speaker 1: because it was just so. It was long and involved.
Speaker 1: We had to plan it out really well and work
Speaker 1: really well together. There were times when there was no
Speaker 1: one else spoke English, so it's just the two of us.
Speaker 1: You may have heard. I think I told the story
Speaker 1: before that my phone was stolen on date two of
Speaker 1: our thirties, a time in Europe, so we had to
Speaker 1: learn how to work with one phone between us, and
Speaker 1: which meant we didn't spend a lot of time on
Speaker 1: the phone, which was nice. Yeah, and again it's just
Speaker 1: life long memories that we have together now that that
Speaker 1: just cannot be replaced, you know, unlike a piece of
Speaker 1: china or a pot or a corquitter or something which
Speaker 1: eventually you will replace with something else. So anyway, I
Speaker 1: would just say, if you're hesitating and you want to
Speaker 1: do something like that, just do it and explain that
Speaker 1: to anyone who feels badly about it. It really is
Speaker 1: just it's so worth it. It's so worth it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's really really amazing and that was an amazing trip.
Speaker 1: And we will never stop talking about it. Yes, we
Speaker 1: will never stop, but we're gonna at least pause talking
Speaker 1: about it so we can get back to the story. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the marriage we really care about, which is Sophia Loren
Speaker 1: and Carlo Ponty. So yeah, they had no official like
Speaker 1: white dress ceremony, but legally Sophia was finally married to
Speaker 1: the man she loved ya triumph, and they celebrated in
Speaker 1: their private bungalow with a nice dinner, and they finally
Speaker 1: relaxed into this true like honeymoon phase of their relationship.
Speaker 1: But it was all cut short because a month later
Speaker 1: they learned that Pope John the twenty three, who was
Speaker 1: widely seen as a very liberal pope, said they're divorce
Speaker 1: and marriage would not be recognized. The official Vatican newspaper
Speaker 1: posted an article that the marriage of an anonymous, quote
Speaker 1: young beautiful Italian film actress, So everyone was like, let
Speaker 1: me put two and two together. It's Jake Jollenhall. They
Speaker 1: said the marriage was illegal and if they lived together
Speaker 1: they could be arrested, and the pope threatened them with
Speaker 1: excommunication from the church and said they faced eternal damnation. So,
Speaker 1: despite finally getting the marriage she always wanted, Sofia said
Speaker 1: this was the saddest day of her life, which, of
Speaker 1: course it is if you're like, I'm just in love
Speaker 1: with someone and he's not in love with her anymore,
Speaker 1: but you want us all to be unhappy or else
Speaker 1: have to go to hell? Right? Thank wow? I feel
Speaker 1: so comforted by religion, my comfort. Thank goodness. I devoted
Speaker 1: my life to this comfort of religion, and then in
Speaker 1: steps this week's villain of the week, Luisa Brambila. Luisa
Speaker 1: Luis is Nope, just to somebody, She's just this random
Speaker 1: housewife from Milan. But she felt like this kind of
Speaker 1: seedy promiscuity was gonna tear the country apart, and under
Speaker 1: Italian law, any citizen may bring criminal charges against any
Speaker 1: other Italian citizen. So she went ahead, took it upon
Speaker 1: her own damn self to file bigamy charges against the
Speaker 1: Pontis what a karen. Everyone was like another Lauisa walked
Speaker 1: in today manager asking for the Pope. I'd like to
Speaker 1: speak to your pope please, I have some charges to file.
Speaker 1: So Carlo and Sophia were effectively forced into exile. They
Speaker 1: had to leave the country because they were having these
Speaker 1: charges leveled against them, like serious charges, so they moved
Speaker 1: around for years. They would rent how is in France
Speaker 1: or in Switzerland, and Sophia missed Italy so badly that
Speaker 1: Carlo would drive her to the top of a pass
Speaker 1: in the Swiss Alps just as she could look down
Speaker 1: over her home country and get a glimpse at it.
Speaker 1: It kind of makes me want to cry heartbreaking. She
Speaker 1: loved Italy. I mean, she had already turned down other
Speaker 1: opportunities so that she could be in her home with
Speaker 1: the person she loved. That's all she ever wanted. In
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty two, Ponti's lawyers found out that the Mexican
Speaker 1: marriage that they had wasn't legal there either, because they
Speaker 1: hadn't had any witnesses at the proxy wedding, so so
Speaker 1: it wasn't legal in Mexico. Yeah, like this, this was
Speaker 1: totally invalid, okay. And this actually kind of worked in
Speaker 1: their favor, I mean sort of like you know, if
Speaker 1: you can call it that, because their marriage was annulled
Speaker 1: and they were able to move back to Rome because
Speaker 1: the bigamy charges weren't really there. But they still had
Speaker 1: the threat of arrest if they were living together, so
Speaker 1: they had to sneak around. They had to spend nights
Speaker 1: at Sophia's mother, Romilda's apartment, or they had to rent
Speaker 1: homes under secret names. They had to come and go
Speaker 1: separately to events. They couldn't be seen together alone in public. Ever,
Speaker 1: if they were going to the same dinner, one of
Speaker 1: them would have to show up first and the other
Speaker 1: would have to hang back and come later, and they'd
Speaker 1: have to leave at separate times. They just if at
Speaker 1: any point it looked like they were a couple in public,
Speaker 1: they could be arrested. That's nuts. And they lived like
Speaker 1: this for four years, which is I mean, it sounds
Speaker 1: intolerable for even one year, like four years so frustrating.
Speaker 1: She later said, quote, I wanted to be his wife
Speaker 1: and have his children. We had done the best the
Speaker 1: law would allow to make it official, but they were
Speaker 1: calling us public sinners. We should have been taking a honeymoon.
Speaker 1: But all I remember is weeping for hours. It's awful.
Speaker 1: So sad woman. All she wanted was this wedding, and
Speaker 1: now she's, you know, in tears, right and again literally like,
Speaker 1: no one is getting hurt here by the divorce and remarriage.
Speaker 1: The only people getting hurt are by you being so
Speaker 1: strict about human nature. So Pope John died of stomach
Speaker 1: cancer in nineteen sixty three, so maybe maybe, But his successor,
Speaker 1: Paul the sixth, reiterated the same outrageous accusations against them.
Speaker 1: Two one to Pope Stone, before you condemn your marriage.
Speaker 1: Oh oh well, I'm sorry. Yeah, you've all got that
Speaker 1: in your head for the next fifteen days. Sorry, I
Speaker 1: feel like someone's gonna lodge a bigamy charges against me.
Speaker 1: So yeah, they just really did not know what to do,
Speaker 1: because I mean, one pope is something, and then you
Speaker 1: get a second pope and like, actually no, I still
Speaker 1: think this sucks, like what the l and Sofia was
Speaker 1: worried she'd never get the happily married life she always wanted,
Speaker 1: that they'd always have to live in these separate lodgings
Speaker 1: and do all this weird ship to begether. But then
Speaker 1: help came from a strange ally Julianna Fiastre, Carlos's ex
Speaker 1: wife or current wife if you asked the pope. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and yeah, she walks in. She's like, look, here's what
Speaker 1: we're gonna do. We're all going to move to France,
Speaker 1: so we're going to get French citizenship. Then we're going
Speaker 1: to get a realist divorce. Y'all can get a realist marriage.
Speaker 1: Packing your ship, let's go. Yeah, she had, she had
Speaker 1: the plan, and then she with them, all three of
Speaker 1: them moved to France and applied for French citizenship, and
Speaker 1: sure enough, French President George personally approved their citizenship and
Speaker 1: France granted Carlo and Julianna an official, real life, in
Speaker 1: person divorce, and then in nineteen sixty six, in a
Speaker 1: small discreete ceremony officiated by the Mayor of Sevre, Sophia
Speaker 1: and Carlo were wed once again, and this time all
Speaker 1: the teas were crossed, all the eyes were dotted at
Speaker 1: all the pizzas were pepperoni. Uh. It was universally recognized.
Speaker 1: There's nothing anybody could say or do. They were finally
Speaker 1: able to return to Italy in peace, and now they're married.
Speaker 1: They're happily married. They had two sons together, Carlo Ponti Jr.
Speaker 1: In nineteen sixty eight and Eduardo Ponti in nineteen seventy three,
Speaker 1: and both of them Carlo and Sophia continued to dominate
Speaker 1: in the film industry. In nineteen sixty Sophia was offered
Speaker 1: the role of the daughter in an Italian film called
Speaker 1: Two Women, which Carlo was producing. It was a mother
Speaker 1: daughters story about women in a war torn village in Italy,
Speaker 1: something obviously Sophia could very easily relate to. Literally was
Speaker 1: a daughter in a war torn village in Italy. I
Speaker 1: think she's going through the script like m this isn't accurate, right,
Speaker 1: it's actually a car radiator. Yeah right now. But the
Speaker 1: woman who was playing the mother, who was an older,
Speaker 1: famed Italian actress, she backed out because Sophia Lauren was
Speaker 1: too tall. She felt like it would look ridiculous if
Speaker 1: she was looking up at her daughter for the whole movie.
Speaker 1: She thought people wouldn't take it seriously and just be funny.
Speaker 1: And she's like, you know this, the mother is supposed
Speaker 1: to be fifty, the daughter is supposed to be maybe
Speaker 1: in her late twenties or so, and she totally withdrew
Speaker 1: from the project. On her way out, she joked, you
Speaker 1: hot to get Sophia to play the mother, and the
Speaker 1: producers were like, yeah, that's a good idea, So soundsppen
Speaker 1: to go to me, and they rewrote the part as
Speaker 1: a younger, thirty year old widow with an eighteen year
Speaker 1: old daughter and Sophia as the mother. Now. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: remember she's mostly known for comedies, so this was also
Speaker 1: her big dramatic turn. And you know, the bombing raids,
Speaker 1: the starvation, being trapped in bomb shelters. I mean, Sophia
Speaker 1: is basically playing her own mother, and she drew from
Speaker 1: her experience to pull off an incredible performance. Sophia herself
Speaker 1: later said, quote, before I made Two Women, I was
Speaker 1: a performer. Afterward, I was an actress. And she was
Speaker 1: nominated for an Academy Award for Best Actress. She was
Speaker 1: up against Audrey Hepburn for Breakfast at Tiffany's and Natalie
Speaker 1: Wood for Splendor in the Grass, I mean, among other nominees. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: So she basically was like, oh, I'm very honored, but like,
Speaker 1: there's no way I'm gonna win. I know. That'd be
Speaker 1: like me walking in today and they're like, okay, so
Speaker 1: you're nominated, but you're up against you know, Meryl Streep
Speaker 1: and Lupete and Youngo and I'd be like, all right, well, hey,
Speaker 1: how did I get this category? What did we all
Speaker 1: compete in? And be I'll be staying home that night,
Speaker 1: thank you very much. I'll just go ahead and go
Speaker 1: thank you. So and yeah, she was kind of like,
Speaker 1: it's going to take a lot for me to travel
Speaker 1: to California from Italy for you know, the awards ceremony.
Speaker 1: So she skipped it, saying I didn't think I was
Speaker 1: gonna win. If I win, I'm going to faint. And
Speaker 1: I think I better faint at home than on stage.
Speaker 1: She stayed up late waiting for a call about the results,
Speaker 1: knowing full well that it wouldn't happen, but she had
Speaker 1: the time change wrong in her head. Totally appreciate that.
Speaker 1: It's so so hard for me to calculate. I cannot
Speaker 1: tell you how many dumb mistakes I've made. So she
Speaker 1: went to sleep at six am, thinking, no news is
Speaker 1: no news. You know, it went out just exactly how
Speaker 1: I thought one of those other amazing actresses one and
Speaker 1: oh well, yeah, they were airing the awards in Italy
Speaker 1: at the time, so she just had to wait for word.
Speaker 1: But shortly after she fell asleep, the phone rang and
Speaker 1: it was Carrie Grant saying, Darling, have you heard? And
Speaker 1: Sophia Learn became the first woman ever to win a
Speaker 1: Best Actress oscar for performance in a Foreign Language film. Amazing,
Speaker 1: very cool. Yeah that was another factor too. I'm sure
Speaker 1: she was like, well, yeah, I'm nominated, which is great,
Speaker 1: but I'm it's a you know, they never you never
Speaker 1: win if you're not in an English speaking movie. And
Speaker 1: then she did it. She did it, but you know,
Speaker 1: their life wasn't all glitz and glamor from here on out.
Speaker 1: They were both having huge success, but scandals followed them too.
Speaker 1: In nineteen seventy five, Carlos survived a kidnapping attempt when
Speaker 1: his car was ambushed and riddled with bullets. Oh my god. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know a lot about this, but I did
Speaker 1: read that apparently this was a period of time that
Speaker 1: Italians referred to as years of lead, which I took
Speaker 1: to me and I guess there's just a lot of
Speaker 1: gunfire going on. Um. A second attempt to kidnap him
Speaker 1: was made later that year, also unsuccessful. So twice in
Speaker 1: one year somebody tried to kidnap this guy, just I
Speaker 1: assume because he's worth a lot of money, right. I
Speaker 1: was about to say, it's like that double edged sword
Speaker 1: or you like, yeah, you have money. Oh no, no,
Speaker 1: I have something someone wants to see. Yeah. So Carlo
Speaker 1: was also charged with smuggling illegally obtained archaeological artifacts and
Speaker 1: prized artwork, including Picasso's in the nineteen seventies, and his
Speaker 1: villa and possessions were all taken away. He was a collector,
Speaker 1: but they were like, some of these collections ain't legit,
Speaker 1: so they snatched it all up. They took it away.
Speaker 1: He was tried in absentia because he was living in
Speaker 1: France at the time, and they sentenced him to four years.
Speaker 1: But after some rumored deals with the Italian government is
Speaker 1: kind of what people think happened, he ended up getting
Speaker 1: everything back and it was all okay, water under the bridge.
Speaker 1: Oh no, these this sarcophagus actually is yours. Now that
Speaker 1: we take a closer look, it turns out there you
Speaker 1: have the certificate right here. What the surprise, I didn't
Speaker 1: see it. It was right here under this big stack
Speaker 1: of money. I see what was covering it up? Is
Speaker 1: all this money. Italian government, known for their smooth and
Speaker 1: legit operation in the nineteen seventies. Sophia had actually been
Speaker 1: tried for complicity in this same case, but she was acquitted,
Speaker 1: although she got a little trouble herself. She ended up
Speaker 1: serving seventeen days out of a thirty days sentence in
Speaker 1: jail in two for some light tax evasion. It was
Speaker 1: some she hadn't paid on some earnings that she made
Speaker 1: in the early eighties, and and take kindly to that.
Speaker 1: It's a little little Shakira action going on there. She
Speaker 1: got found out in the Panama papers or something. Ultimately, though,
Speaker 1: Sophia and Carlo were incredibly happy together, and they remained
Speaker 1: faithfully married until his death in two thousand and seven
Speaker 1: at ninety four years old. I know, right, that's nice.
Speaker 1: I lived in nineties. That's pretty good. And one time,
Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty seven, just a year after their marriage,
Speaker 1: she was filming a movie with Marlon Brando when he
Speaker 1: walked up and tried to get handsy with her, and
Speaker 1: Sophia later told the story saying, quote, I turned in
Speaker 1: all tranquility and blew his face like a cat, stroked
Speaker 1: the wrong way, and said, don't you ever dare to
Speaker 1: do that again? Never again, she said. As I pulverized
Speaker 1: him with my eyes, he seemed small, defenseless. He never
Speaker 1: did it again, but it was difficult working with him
Speaker 1: after that. She was like, yeah, I made Marlon Brando
Speaker 1: feel small somehow and turns out to not help. He's like,
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry. I shouldn't have done that. I should you.
Speaker 1: I thought you want one day, and that day may
Speaker 1: never come. In the welcome deal with an apology, we
Speaker 1: can't pass up an opportunity. Godfather, boys, I could have
Speaker 1: been a contender. You were already married and I didn't.
Speaker 1: We didn't wait for consent. Could have been a consenter.
Speaker 1: I could have had Glass. So in terms of Carlo,
Speaker 1: like his history is a little more straightforward. You can
Speaker 1: just look at his IMDb page and see all of
Speaker 1: his contributions to cinema. I mean his his life history
Speaker 1: is just a history of film in a lot of ways.
Speaker 1: He produced Felini's Lastrada and David Lean's Doctor Hivago, huge movies.
Speaker 1: After his death, Italian cultural Minister Francesco to Telli said,
Speaker 1: quote Ponti embodied a great and courageous pushed to innovate,
Speaker 1: promoted unforgettable talents, and enjoyed huge success. And Sofia continued
Speaker 1: to expand her career into that Isn't three. She won
Speaker 1: a Grammy Award for Best Spoken Word Album for Children
Speaker 1: in her reading of Peter and the Wolf. She's also
Speaker 1: a skilled chef, and she has written no less than
Speaker 1: three cookbooks, and I want them. I did not know
Speaker 1: about this, but I want to make all of Sophia
Speaker 1: Loran's recipes. I'm sure a vegetarian version of them, because
Speaker 1: I bet they're loaded with beef, but I bet as
Speaker 1: good as hell. She said, nobody beat her mother's eggplant,
Speaker 1: which I bet. I bet Romilda made a hell of
Speaker 1: an egg plant. And I don't like eggplant, but if
Speaker 1: I liked it, I bet it's Romilda's. Absolutely, that would
Speaker 1: make me absolutely. She said that the only thing she
Speaker 1: ever regrets in her life is never getting her white wedding.
Speaker 1: Sofia said she's still dreams of wearing a white dress
Speaker 1: and walking down the aisle because that was just the
Speaker 1: one thing she never got her. Her weddings were very
Speaker 1: unceremonious in a lot of ways. They're very private and small,
Speaker 1: and it was what she needed. But she didn't get
Speaker 1: that that wedding day she had been dreaming of, you know.
Speaker 1: But she never doubted that Carlo was the right man
Speaker 1: for her. When asked in two thousand nine, two years
Speaker 1: after his death, if she would ever marry again, she said, quote, no,
Speaker 1: never again. It would be impossible to love anyone else.
Speaker 1: And Sophia loren As of this recording is alive and well,
Speaker 1: she's living, I believe in Switzerland. She is eighty seven
Speaker 1: years old. She's got an IMDb credit from last year,
Speaker 1: so she's doing it. She's she's out there and she's amazing.
Speaker 1: I'd also live in Switzerland, by the way. By the way,
Speaker 1: I would also live in Switzerland. So an incredible epic
Speaker 1: romance spanning continents and just like you know, defying religious
Speaker 1: authoritarianism and all of these conventions. Yeah. We we dabbled
Speaker 1: a little earlier in the age difference, which of course
Speaker 1: is something to be said, didn't didn't matter as much
Speaker 1: when he was ninety four and she was seventy three.
Speaker 1: But but there is definitely a question there about like
Speaker 1: you know, he was, he was a middle h dude
Speaker 1: more or less. I mean, he was in his late
Speaker 1: thirties and he met a sixteen year old and was like,
Speaker 1: I'm going to start teaching you all the ins and
Speaker 1: notes of the business. I mean you're almost thirty seven. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and you I mean, if you met a sixteen year
Speaker 1: old right now, I would I would leave because I
Speaker 1: don't you know, I don't understand teenagers. I certainly wouldn't
Speaker 1: offer to give one guidance. I'd be terrible for that, right.
Speaker 1: You'd be like, you should really get some guidance from
Speaker 1: someone else, someone who's uh both trained and authorized to
Speaker 1: give you a guidance. Just not me, not I but
Speaker 1: what can we say. They were extremely happy together, they
Speaker 1: fought very hard to stay together their whole lives. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so it comes to a point where it's very difficult
Speaker 1: because you want to take talk and and kind of go, well,
Speaker 1: what pressures were brought to bear on someone? You know?
Speaker 1: Were they broken down by this person and made vulnerable
Speaker 1: and then therefore he was able to swoop in and
Speaker 1: be the only safety or something, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: like that kind of cornering of someone. Did he take
Speaker 1: advantage of the fact that she needed a father figure
Speaker 1: and someone to you know, to show her the way? Yeah,
Speaker 1: But it also is hard to invalidate someone's love. And
Speaker 1: some people do fall in love inconcruously all the time.
Speaker 1: And sometimes its age, and sometimes it's culture totally different
Speaker 1: cultures or religions or something, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: That seem insurmountable, but you fall in love and then
Speaker 1: you find a way to surmount. And knowing people who
Speaker 1: have suffered at the hands of older especially young girls
Speaker 1: who dated older men and were traumatized for life by it,
Speaker 1: whether you know that was the man's intention or not. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, I think what I take from these stories
Speaker 1: is you've got to be really skeptical and cautious about
Speaker 1: these age gaps. But also sometimes people love each other
Speaker 1: and they're happy, and that's all that matters. It's true,
Speaker 1: And I mean, he's dead, and she could be saying
Speaker 1: now like he's dead, I can tell ever the world
Speaker 1: the truth or whatever, and she's not. She's not traumatized
Speaker 1: for life. She still remembers him very lovingly, fondly and everything.
Speaker 1: So it feels it seems like it was, you know,
Speaker 1: pretty on the up and up. It seems like as
Speaker 1: much as it could be. He never threw acid in
Speaker 1: her face. Well you know, you know, our bar gets
Speaker 1: kind of low sometimes. But I hope that you all
Speaker 1: enjoyed this story. I hope you found it as kind
Speaker 1: of fascinating and beautiful as I did. I left, I
Speaker 1: didn't know anything about Sephia Lauren oh me either. I
Speaker 1: just knew, you know, Sophia Laurent. I think the first
Speaker 1: thing I saw in was grumpy er old men. She
Speaker 1: was a romantic interest in that. Lari's kind of a
Speaker 1: fem faytale. I think in that one, I don't remember
Speaker 1: it too well, but I never I didn't think about that.
Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, and you know, and you just know
Speaker 1: who she is, Like you know who Marilyn Monroe is
Speaker 1: or something. Right, this is a famous pretty lady. That's
Speaker 1: what I know about her. So it's cool to like
Speaker 1: learn all this crazy background about her childhood beings so
Speaker 1: difficult and all this stuff, Like that's really amazing. What
Speaker 1: an interesting lady, really interesting life. I think that's part
Speaker 1: of it too. You know, sometimes we're really sold on
Speaker 1: someone who's just like, oh, you're a pretty person who
Speaker 1: lives as a celebrity. Everything has been given to you
Speaker 1: on a silver platter. And you know the reality is
Speaker 1: that people have way more dimension than that, almost always,
Speaker 1: and you know, when you start to dig in and
Speaker 1: learn about them, you never know what you're gonna find,
Speaker 1: and you might be really fascinated and and empathize with them.
Speaker 1: I I've you know, look, no doubt that uh nets
Speaker 1: scale Sophia Urn probably had a easier life in a
Speaker 1: lot of ways than either of us or most of
Speaker 1: our listeners will ever have because she had, you know,
Speaker 1: access to so much. But at the same time, like
Speaker 1: she also suffered in ways that I can't imagine, and
Speaker 1: struggled and fought hard to get to where she was
Speaker 1: well and it's just like getting rich. You know, You're like, hey,
Speaker 1: I'm rich. Now I have something people want to steal.
Speaker 1: It's sort of like, oh, it's so great to be beautiful.
Speaker 1: People like pretty people and they want to help them.
Speaker 1: But also now I have something that can be exploited,
Speaker 1: that can be used against me. I mean, just and everything,
Speaker 1: everything has its its other side of its coin. I
Speaker 1: guess I feel that every day I met with that struggle.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm wasted on audio. I have a face
Speaker 1: for movies. Damn it. I want to be sixty tall
Speaker 1: one day. One day, we'll get you there. Yeah, did
Speaker 1: you see that? Similu and Barry Kyogan, however you say
Speaker 1: his last name? Who plays Drew Wig in the Eternals.
Speaker 1: Both of them, years and years ago tweeted, hey, Marvel
Speaker 1: put me in a movie. Wasn't as specific characters was
Speaker 1: specifically for sure, Yeah, but this guy just said to
Speaker 1: put me in a Marvelin movie. And now he's Drew
Speaker 1: Big in the internals. Okay, well, I guess I need
Speaker 1: to tweet put me in a marvel I know. Well,
Speaker 1: now it's like buying a collectible, you know, like once
Speaker 1: everyone does, and it's not worth anything anymore. Got to
Speaker 1: do it before anyone thinks about it. I really I
Speaker 1: just want the I just want the routine. I just
Speaker 1: want the nutritionists and the and the personal trainers right
Speaker 1: and everything. I want to be beaten into submission until
Speaker 1: I have, you know, until I look like I's gonna
Speaker 1: say Camille on Jiohnny, But I'll never look like Camil. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's quite a few steps between you. And honestly, you
Speaker 1: know what this happened to me this week? Um, I
Speaker 1: was command know that that still never has and never
Speaker 1: will happen. Know what happened to me was I had
Speaker 1: a I had a bit of a rough patch because
Speaker 1: for for years since ant Man, I've been saying, you
Speaker 1: know what my ideal body type, it's just Paul Rudd.
Speaker 1: He keeps it tight, he's in shape. It's not Chris Hemsworth.
Speaker 1: That's absurd and takes a full time devotion and is
Speaker 1: unrealistic of anyone to try and achieve. But Paul Rudd
Speaker 1: I can do. And then he made him sexiest man alive.
Speaker 1: And I'm like that, you know what, you just raised
Speaker 1: the bar Now I can't It's just you know what
Speaker 1: I mean? It made it seem less attainable. Now he's like,
Speaker 1: whose body do you want? Oh? Just the sexiest man
Speaker 1: Alive's body? Great, So now I gotta Now I'm like, okay,
Speaker 1: maybe you know Mark Ruffalo is still a pretty good
Speaker 1: bar too, Gruffalo. He's in shape, but it's not it's
Speaker 1: not ridiculous. Yeah, just dark. Yeah, like that might be
Speaker 1: where I am right now. I'm not you are, maybe
Speaker 1: so he might have gotten shape for always be my maybe. Well, look,
Speaker 1: before we get too into ranking the bodies of the
Speaker 1: men in the Marvel Cinematic universe. Gross, where's their growth?
Speaker 1: We should probably get out of here. That's true. So
Speaker 1: thank you so much for tuning in for this episode.
Speaker 1: I hope you loved it. Please, As always, we love
Speaker 1: to hear your thoughts, your feedback. If you ever met
Speaker 1: Sophia Loren, please tell us us. Um that would be amazing. Yeah.
Speaker 1: You can reach out by email to Romance at iHeart
Speaker 1: media dot com yes, or you can find us on
Speaker 1: the social media's, specifically Twitter and Instagram. I'm at oh great,
Speaker 1: it's Eli. I'm at Dianamite Boom, and you can find
Speaker 1: the show at ridic Romance. Don't forget to rate and
Speaker 1: review and all that good stuff. Yes, we hope to
Speaker 1: hear from you soon, and we will see you with
Speaker 1: another hot and sixty episode later this week. Can't wait.
Speaker 1: Love you by so long. Friends, It's time to go.
Speaker 1: Thanks so listening to our show, Tell your friends the
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