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Speaker 1: Bonno, Hi, I don't know. I didn't know. I forgot

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Speaker 1: it all right, now we're jumping right in. You forgot

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Speaker 1: bon journal after our many many days in Italy five

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Speaker 1: years ago, almost exactly, well five years in a month.

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Speaker 1: I'll remember is you going up to a lady and

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Speaker 1: saying me Dispucci to say I'm sorry, and she immediately

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Speaker 1: said what do you want in English? And I was like,

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Speaker 1: that's yeah, that sounds right. Yeah, Spiacci is sorry. But

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Speaker 1: apparently I learned since then that has not widely used.

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Speaker 1: It was more squozy. You know. Hey everybody, Hey, well,

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Speaker 1: welcome back to the show. I'm Eli, I'm Diana, and

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Speaker 1: we're here with another amazing episode bring to you today

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Speaker 1: at epic tale of romance against all odds. Yeah, you know,

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Speaker 1: some really right in the heart of Italy and where

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Speaker 1: where else heart of Italy and also fifties Hollywood glad

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Speaker 1: man forget it. Yeah, this is all the ingredients for

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Speaker 1: a for a very spicy to meet the ball romance.

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Speaker 1: It's gonna be a lot of Italian accents today, um,

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Speaker 1: but it's okay. My family is largely Italian, most of

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Speaker 1: my dad's side, most of that side is Italian, despite

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Speaker 1: somewhere along the way, some somebody married up Banks and

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Speaker 1: got that British last name for some reason. I tell

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Speaker 1: you I have. I have grandmother's whose last names were

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Speaker 1: If I'm getting this right, Screwdado, Shimento and del Bagno.

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Speaker 1: So a lot of cool Italian names. I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: Banks has been it's it's my name. I love it,

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Speaker 1: but sometimes I'm like, come on, I kind of had

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Speaker 1: a Colt, very different player. Yeah, yeah, different mouth feel.

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Speaker 1: I always complained that I my my mom's side of

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Speaker 1: the family is like tall, pale Scottish Irish people, and

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Speaker 1: my dad's started the family is like short, olive skinned Italians.

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Speaker 1: And guess what I got, short and pale. Really screwed

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Speaker 1: up there. Gotta not trade these jeans out right. If

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Speaker 1: I could just do a little swappy swap like Gattica style,

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Speaker 1: if I got that Irish height but that Mediterranean skin

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Speaker 1: would be unstoppable. Keep your eyes though, wherever they come from,

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Speaker 1: all right, yeah, we'll keep the eyes. Nice to know

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Speaker 1: you'd keep part of me the same, just the one part.

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Speaker 1: Oh well, romances blooming here tonight. Our marriage is going great,

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Speaker 1: going great, good, really really showing each other a lot

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Speaker 1: about what we really think. Well, uh, let's uh, let's

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Speaker 1: dive in with we haven't checked the bag in a while.

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Speaker 1: What do you say you looking to it? I think

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Speaker 1: I think we've got a mail call. Awesome. Yeah. Randy Jensen,

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Speaker 1: a sixth grade teacher in Denmark, reached out on Instagram

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Speaker 1: after our Lily Elbe and Gerdo Regnar episode. So that's cool.

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Speaker 1: Yeah Denmark. Yeah, Randy wrote, thank you so much for

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Speaker 1: your podcast. The laws in Denmark these days still make

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Speaker 1: it difficult for trans people. We all have social Security

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Speaker 1: numbers and male numbers and uneven and female and even numbers.

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Speaker 1: Oh that's interesting. They have social Security like their number

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Speaker 1: correlates to their gender. We don't have that. I think

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Speaker 1: by state. There's some coding by state that's interesting. And

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Speaker 1: Randy says you can change gender, but it is such

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Speaker 1: a hard process for the person involved. We're such a

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Speaker 1: bureaucratic society, mostly to keep people safe, but sometimes those

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Speaker 1: boxes make it hard for people who don't match them. Generally,

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Speaker 1: we are open minded and mostly woke, but we did

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Speaker 1: get into the latest feminism wave very late, which also

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Speaker 1: impacts lgbt Q plus views in public. Interesting which I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, we did talk about the Nazis came through

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Speaker 1: and totally decimated all of that type of ship for

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Speaker 1: a very long time and for for a decade or more.

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Speaker 1: So it's like set the conversation so far back. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so it's kind of no wonder that maybe that would

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Speaker 1: take a minute. And uh yeah, it goes on to

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Speaker 1: say that some of their students still have sexist and

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Speaker 1: homophobic views, but they're trying their best to teach open mindedness.

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Speaker 1: So good luck from us, Randy on at absolutely task.

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Speaker 1: Teaching open mindedness is incredibly important. It is very important

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Speaker 1: and difficulty. Also, Yeah, it's so interesting about the social

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Speaker 1: security numbers. I don't really know how it works here.

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Speaker 1: If uh, listeners, send us in your social security number,

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Speaker 1: and uh we will We'll do a little independent study

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Speaker 1: here and try and figure out what we can your

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Speaker 1: gender and your social security number. Yeah, includes some other

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Speaker 1: details as well. Um, you know, just so we have

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Speaker 1: you know, we we can measure all the data Mother's

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Speaker 1: made in names. Um, I suppose I'd be curious if

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Speaker 1: like you're banking infoe corresponds to your social security numbers.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, just send all that type it up shoot

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Speaker 1: it over in an email. I think I heard. I heard.

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Speaker 1: It's going to be cool with us turning this into

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Speaker 1: a big scam. Okay, I think our lawyers have just

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Speaker 1: informed me and our lawyers. By the way, as Hobbes

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Speaker 1: the dog, he says, he don't do that. Don't send

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Speaker 1: me your social Security numbers or your bank account information

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Speaker 1: or any personal info you don't want shared. Wow, Hobbs

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Speaker 1: is a good lawyer. That's very good advice. He's been

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Speaker 1: paying attention. He should put it. He should drop up

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Speaker 1: a whill next I bequeath all my bones to me

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Speaker 1: that maybe he's not a very very narrow fields to

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Speaker 1: the well. That's all very exciting. Thank you Randy for

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Speaker 1: writing in so glad people are enjoying that episode. Um,

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Speaker 1: if you haven't heard it yet, go check out that

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Speaker 1: two parter about Billy Alban Gerda Vagner because it's really fascinating,

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Speaker 1: a beautiful story. Yeah, today we've got a totally different story.

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Speaker 1: This one A name you've surely heard, I hope, Sophia Louren.

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Speaker 1: She is an Academy Award winning actress Italy with nearly

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Speaker 1: a hundred acting credits to her name between nineteen fifty

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Speaker 1: and today. She navigated the international film market as a compelling, beautiful,

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Speaker 1: and hilarious comedic actress while weathering scandal after scandal and

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Speaker 1: constant scrutiny from the media in her personal affairs. Her

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Speaker 1: husband was the Italian producer Carlo Ponti, a man that

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Speaker 1: Tabloid's joked was quote twice her age and half her height.

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Speaker 1: But through it all, Sophia and Carlos stood together against

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Speaker 1: Hollywood establishment, the American press, and not one but two popes.

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Speaker 1: Two popes toe to toe with the popes. So this

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Speaker 1: is very exciting story, epic sweeping romance. And I say

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Speaker 1: we jump right in. Let's do this. Hey their French

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Speaker 1: come listen. Well, Elia and Diana got some stories to tell.

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Speaker 1: There's no match making, no romantic tips. It's just about

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Speaker 1: particulous relationships, a lover, it might be any type of

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Speaker 1: person at all, and abstract cons that draw a concrete wall.

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Speaker 1: But if there's a story, were the second glance ridiculous

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Speaker 1: Roles a production of I Heart Radio? Okay, So flashing

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Speaker 1: a little further back in time, in nineteen thirty two,

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Speaker 1: a woman named Romilda Villani entered a contest in Italy

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Speaker 1: to find the perfect looklike for the famous actress Greta Garbou. Now,

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Speaker 1: MGM had put the contest together to try and find

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Speaker 1: someone who could work as a stand in for the starlet,

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Speaker 1: and the grand prize for winning this was a ticket

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Speaker 1: to Hollywood for a screen test. If you look enough

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Speaker 1: like Greta Garbou, we'll fly out here to just make sure,

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Speaker 1: yeah for If not, we'll send you back in. You

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Speaker 1: probably gott to buy your own plate to get home,

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Speaker 1: probably right. It's not no round trip ticket. It's kind

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Speaker 1: of like American Idol where your auditioned to go to Hollywood.

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Speaker 1: They're like, you going to Holly one and then you

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Speaker 1: get there and then you have to win good luck.

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Speaker 1: So Romilda was a gifted pianist. She had graduated from

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Speaker 1: a conservatory with honors, and she was very talented actress.

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Speaker 1: She was beautiful and she won first place as the

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Speaker 1: Italian Garbo. But the problem was Ramelda is only seventeen

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Speaker 1: years old at the time, so her parents had to

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Speaker 1: give approval for her to take this trip to Hollywood,

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Speaker 1: and they did not. They were definitely like no, no, no, no, America.

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Speaker 1: That's a that's a dangerous, a very tiny girl, you know,

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Speaker 1: talking with their hands right right right, you know, spoonful

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Speaker 1: of JOCHI slapped on the plate. You keep eating, you're

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Speaker 1: not to go into Hollywood, not that you finish your plate,

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Speaker 1: and then not at all. So when Ramelda turned eighteen,

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Speaker 1: she moved to Rome to try and break into the

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Speaker 1: burgeoning phil own business there, and that's when she met

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Speaker 1: Ricardo Chicolonne, a construction engineer who had been like hanging

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Speaker 1: around the set. And this guy had like a tendency

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Speaker 1: to lurk around the fringes of show business and try

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Speaker 1: to pick up actresses. One of those Um yeah, he

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Speaker 1: would promise big career opportunities and startom and stuff, but

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Speaker 1: it didn't really couldn't deliver you fairly that kind of life.

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Speaker 1: The boy that I mean this is this is the

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Speaker 1: early days of Hollywood, and I mean, surely that's been

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Speaker 1: happening in all forms of show business since the downtime,

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Speaker 1: but I just, you know, just immediately they're like, hey,

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Speaker 1: let's make movies, and then all these creeps run in

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Speaker 1: and they're like time to start promising young girls the opportunity. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so I can sleep with him once and then never

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Speaker 1: see him again, Like it's got to be so hard

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Speaker 1: because if somebody comes up to you and it's like,

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Speaker 1: I can give you the opportunities no one else has like,

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Speaker 1: or you've got to consider it, right sure, because there's

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Speaker 1: a one percent chance that this person would actually do

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Speaker 1: that for you. And I mean, if you're if you're

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Speaker 1: a good enough scam artist, you can make it look

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Speaker 1: like you really got some connections or some kind of

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Speaker 1: I don't know, some kind of power. And how are

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Speaker 1: you supposed to be able to tell the difference between

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Speaker 1: a real agent and a fake one. At that point

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Speaker 1: in time, it was pretty hard to tell. I think

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Speaker 1: the real agents were also pretty skiezy. Right. It can

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Speaker 1: be hard now too, But as I understand it, You know,

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Speaker 1: if you're going to be an actor Hollywood, Atlanta, New York,

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Speaker 1: wherever you're going, vet everybody, ye ask questions, Ask them questions,

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Speaker 1: Ask everyone you know questions about this person. Yeah, don't

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Speaker 1: fall for Ricardo hickelone. Don't fall for Ricardo schickelone. We

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Speaker 1: need to have like bumper stickers made. No Siclon is here,

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Speaker 1: not today sickelone. It might be very nice Hiclone's out there,

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Speaker 1: So I don't want to I know, right, Sorry to

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Speaker 1: any good schickelone's who are promising real opportunities to young

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Speaker 1: women out there in the world. Well, this guy was

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Speaker 1: not a great Chiclonne. He totally conned Ramildon into thinking

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Speaker 1: that he was some power player in Hollywood. Uh. And

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Speaker 1: they did start sleeping together. One day she found out

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Speaker 1: she was pregnant at like, like it happens when you

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Speaker 1: start sleeping with somebody, and so she went to him

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Speaker 1: basically being like he Ricardo, I got a little bitzza

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Speaker 1: pie in the urban. Let's get maded. And he says,

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Speaker 1: oh no, yes, I think that he looks like Wallouigi.

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Speaker 1: I think it looks like Wallowuigi. And he says, oh no,

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Speaker 1: that's a spicy made the ball. I got a gut,

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Speaker 1: I left my mozzarell and my feetat and I gotta go,

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Speaker 1: or something like that. You know, I'm sure it was

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Speaker 1: pretty close to what he said and definitely how he

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Speaker 1: said it. And he basically he left her alone to

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Speaker 1: have this baby by herself, and he skaddled off somewhere.

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Speaker 1: Just disclaimer, we love Italy so much. Really, a lot

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Speaker 1: of my family and some of our fondest memories I'm

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Speaker 1: very sorry around Italy. Mario love the Italian people for

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Speaker 1: our super Mario Italian excess. This is just if if

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Speaker 1: if Mario was telling the story of yes, hey, it's good.

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Speaker 1: This has got to be better than whatever Chris Pratt's

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Speaker 1: gonna do. Right, Sure right, I mean go on. So

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Speaker 1: on September ninety four, Ramilda gave birth to this child.

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Speaker 1: It was Sophia Velani Chiclone. She was born at the

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Speaker 1: Clinica Regina Margherita, which I have translated to the Queen's

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Speaker 1: Clinic of Basil and Tomatoes. I don't think that's accurate. Um.

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Speaker 1: But Ramilda had to move back with her parents where

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Speaker 1: she could raise this child because obviously she was unmarried,

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Speaker 1: didn't have a lot of prospects, and this wasn't a

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Speaker 1: town called pot Swally, And this is a coastal town

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Speaker 1: just outside of Naples, and Ramilda worked there as a

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Speaker 1: piano instructor. Four years later, Ricardo Chicolone tried to get

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Speaker 1: back together with Romilda and she got pregnant again and

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Speaker 1: she had a daughter named Maria. Pop quiz for our

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Speaker 1: listeners at home, Dianna, you can be their substitute. Here

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Speaker 1: did Ricardo a use this opportunity to make amends for

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Speaker 1: his earlier behavior Mary Ramilda and accept responsibility for his children,

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Speaker 1: or be deny the kid, leave Ramilda to raise her

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Speaker 1: on her own, and more or less disappear until the

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Speaker 1: family was wealthy and he needed money. Yes, that's the

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Speaker 1: saddest correct answer of all time. Yes, he sucked, he

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Speaker 1: left um. The family was struggling to survive in pot Swally.

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Speaker 1: This is actually an important harbor town, and they were

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Speaker 1: bombed very heavily during World War Two. At one point,

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Speaker 1: while the family was running to a shelter for cover,

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Speaker 1: shrapnel sent Sophia flying and split open her chin, leaving

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Speaker 1: a lifetime scar. And the family was starving throughout this

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Speaker 1: and and well after. For five years they lived in

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Speaker 1: long stretches without food or water or electricity. During the famine,

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Speaker 1: Ramilda had to siphon condensation off of a car radiator

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Speaker 1: just to get water for her daughters. Do you think

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Speaker 1: like where you're scraping like fucking drops of dew into

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Speaker 1: a little vial or something that you're just like, have

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Speaker 1: we regressed to cave people or something? Again? Because cool,

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Speaker 1: glad y'all got your war? Yeah, so Ramilda is a

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Speaker 1: complete badass. Obviously, she's making it work. She's scraping the

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Speaker 1: water off the radiator and keeping everyone alive. And after

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Speaker 1: the war they opened a pub in their live room

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Speaker 1: where Ramilda played piano while Maria sang and Sophia waited tables.

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Speaker 1: So it's pretty innovative. We have an entrepreneur in our

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Speaker 1: midst And as things start to turn around for them,

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Speaker 1: Ramilda decide she wants her daughter to have the opportunities

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Speaker 1: that she did not have, so she moved with the

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Speaker 1: family to Rome and got Sophia into beauty pageants. Now,

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Speaker 1: Sophia had been small and weak looking after the famine

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Speaker 1: and everything, and kids in her school even nicknamed her studente,

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Speaker 1: which means toothpick. They're like, Sophie, you're looking like a

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Speaker 1: piece off to cheney. But when she turned fourteen, like overnight,

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Speaker 1: she suddenly sprung up. She got super tall and statuesque,

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Speaker 1: and she started to look like, you know, Sophia Laurent,

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Speaker 1: famously beautiful woman. And she won her first beauty pageant year.

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Speaker 1: The prize was a little cash and some free wallpaper,

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Speaker 1: which she put in her grandparents living room. They're just

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Speaker 1: like whether we got lying around here. You won the

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Speaker 1: beauty pageant. Here's m here's a some walt paper and uh,

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Speaker 1: here's some old bottle caps. I go out in my pocket.

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Speaker 1: Here's a half of Calzona. How much cash? So do

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Speaker 1: I have? Twenty seven dollars? And congratulations. And in nineteen fifty,

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Speaker 1: when Sophia was fifteen, under the stage name Sophia Lazaro,

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Speaker 1: she won Miss Elegance in the Miss Italia pageants. Oh

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Speaker 1: Miss Elegance. That's pretty good. Yeah, that's pretty good. And

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Speaker 1: shortly after this she and Romilda both started picking up

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Speaker 1: bit parts in films at China Chita, which was this

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Speaker 1: big film studio in Rome started by Italy's own Benito Mussolini.

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Speaker 1: You know, famed film the creator. Yeah, yeah, you know,

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Speaker 1: you know, famed filmmaker Banito Musolini did other stuff, I think,

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Speaker 1: but that's the main thing. And he actually founded it

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Speaker 1: not just to make propaganda films, although that was definitely

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Speaker 1: definitely part of the reason, but he actually was trying

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Speaker 1: to make Italy. I mean, he was trying to give

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Speaker 1: Italy some industry, some kind of revenue and gross domestic product,

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Speaker 1: and they were trying to be the European answer to Hollywood. Right,

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Speaker 1: that was ninety seven that Mussolini started this film studio,

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Speaker 1: so this is some time later that Sophia is getting

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Speaker 1: involved in the well. By the time Sophia was sixteen,

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Speaker 1: people in the industry had been pushing her to start

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Speaker 1: taking acting classes, and that same year she entered another

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Speaker 1: beauty pageant and the panel of judges included a thirty

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Speaker 1: seven year old film producer named Carlo Ponti. Carlo Punty

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Speaker 1: was a lawyer initially, and he used to negotiate contracts

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Speaker 1: for other filmmakers, but this got him interested in producing himself,

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Speaker 1: and by nineteen forty he ended up being a central

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Speaker 1: figure in trying to build up a film industry in Milan.

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Speaker 1: He even produced a period film that year called Old

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Speaker 1: Fashioned World, which was about this struggle between Italy and

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Speaker 1: Austria in the eighteen hundreds during Italy's unification, and the

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Speaker 1: film was hugely popular because people saw it as as

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Speaker 1: it was a direct and obvious parallel to how the

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Speaker 1: Nazis were treating Italy, and he was even briefly jailed

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Speaker 1: around this time for undermining relations with Nazi Germany. Of course,

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Speaker 1: around here we applaud anyone who undermines relations with Nazi

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Speaker 1: Way to go, Carlo. Yes, Carlo very heavily anti fascist,

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Speaker 1: was not into it um at a time in Italy

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Speaker 1: where I think you were one of the others. I

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Speaker 1: understand it. Yeah. So in nineteen forty six Carlo married

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Speaker 1: a woman named Juliana Fiestri, and in nineteen fifty they

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Speaker 1: had a daughter named Gwenda Lena. Then in ninety one,

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Speaker 1: as a leading figure in Italy's film industry, he got

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Speaker 1: a phone call from a friend that was like, hey, Carlo,

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Speaker 1: you want to come be the judge for the pretty Ladies?

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Speaker 1: And he says yes, He goes and he takes on

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Speaker 1: this this you know, honor, to be a judge in

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Speaker 1: this pageant, and he's watching all these ladies come out.

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Speaker 1: He's like, hey, here's a romana, here's romana for the genie,

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Speaker 1: here's uh, here's Roberto Bianco, here's uh, here's Esbrelda, there's

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Speaker 1: the moona whatever. And he's like, yes, yes, see, see

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Speaker 1: see Lady Linden. And then outsteps Sophia Lazaro and suddenly

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Speaker 1: Carlo sees her and just the moon hits his eye

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Speaker 1: like a big pizza pie, and he just thought that

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Speaker 1: she was the most amazing sixteen year old girl he'd

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Speaker 1: ever seen in his thirty seven years on this planet.

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Speaker 1: Good pretty girl. Uncomfortable start to this romance, not great.

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Speaker 1: Carlo did kind of get obsessed with her, but at

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Speaker 1: first it was all professional. He thought she was just

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Speaker 1: gonna be the next big thing. He thought she had it,

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Speaker 1: you know, she had that certain something that made a

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Speaker 1: star or whatever, and he figured that the sky was

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Speaker 1: the limit if she just had the right guidance, not

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Speaker 1: a not a shiclone. So he helped her navigate the

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Speaker 1: film industry, and he got her minor roles in more

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Speaker 1: and more movies. She started taking acting classes and rubbing

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Speaker 1: elbows with industry giants, and all the while she's like

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Speaker 1: enthralled by Carlo's knowledge and guidance and kindness. She later

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Speaker 1: said of him, I felt at home with him. I

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Speaker 1: was terribly young, and he gave me confidence. Each time

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Speaker 1: I did something that he liked, he would always say,

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Speaker 1: you should always do that, And yes, this gave me confidence.

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Speaker 1: He was protective and he took my insecurities away. Yes,

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Speaker 1: he looked and sounded like he would take care of me,

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Speaker 1: which no other man had done. Totally good. I mean,

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Speaker 1: her dad freaking doubt twice left her mom to be

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Speaker 1: scraping water off a car radiat or soya, this is

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Speaker 1: very very interested in a father figure. Yes, at least

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Speaker 1: at least a male presence. Yeah, that's like comforting and

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Speaker 1: not like adding to your work. And like she's like,

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Speaker 1: what if, what's this guy that like takes care of

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Speaker 1: you and makes life easier? Where's that guy? So yeah,

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Speaker 1: he seems to be that. He was just very affirming

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Speaker 1: and kind and he didn't seem to be trying to

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Speaker 1: get into you know, her pantaloni whatever. And in fact,

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Speaker 1: in n he had a second child with his wife,

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Speaker 1: a son they called Alex. Would be working out okay,

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Speaker 1: or or they're having a baby to save their marriage.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, it could could go either way. Speculation stage.

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Speaker 1: That's same year, nineteenft three, Sophia is hanging out with

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Speaker 1: Carlo and another producer named Geoffrey Lombardo, and they're all

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Speaker 1: talking about how Sophia can finally just break through and

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Speaker 1: really show everybody what she got, you know, and like

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Speaker 1: any day now we we gotta there's we're right up

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Speaker 1: at the finish line. We just need to cross it,

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Speaker 1: and they came up with this idea for a name change.

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Speaker 1: Sophia Lazaro was, you know, a bit part actress in Italy.

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Speaker 1: She was That's who you get. If you need somebody

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Speaker 1: to play this small part, you get Sophia Lazaro. She's

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Speaker 1: very funny, she's very pretty. They need a rebrand exactly.

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Speaker 1: They needed something global, a new person. So Lombardo starts thinking, hey,

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Speaker 1: you know that the f and Sophia it's uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's a do Italian. The English speaking people they love

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Speaker 1: a pH telephone, you know, Philosophia. You know, it's always

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Speaker 1: a pH with them. So let's make it Sophia with

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Speaker 1: a pH. And Carlos like, yeah, yeah, that's a good,

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Speaker 1: that's a good. I like this, and Lazaro, this gotta go.

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Speaker 1: It sounds like it sounds like it sounds like something

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Speaker 1: I ordered her at the coffee shop. You know, I'll

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Speaker 1: take a Venti Lazaro. You know. So there's this very

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Speaker 1: popular Swedish actress at the time named Martha Torrne. So

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Speaker 1: they decide let's spend that name a little bit, and

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Speaker 1: they welcomed to the world a movie star named Sophia

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Speaker 1: Lorent What a thought process that name in. In ninety three,

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Speaker 1: she started her breakout role in a film adaptation of

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Speaker 1: the popular opera Aida, where she played Aida, the Ethiopian princess.

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Speaker 1: And yeah it's bad. I mean, you know, you can

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Speaker 1: look it up, but she's wearing a lot of bronze

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Speaker 1: and it's not good. Yeah, it's not good. We'll we'll

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Speaker 1: go ahead and blame that on the producers for not

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Speaker 1: making the same effort to make a black actress famous

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Speaker 1: with a part that would be perfect for a black actress.

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Speaker 1: I mean they could have been looking around for that years.

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Speaker 1: Zozzi beats, but no, that puts so much work into

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Speaker 1: making sephil or end famous. They could have put half

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Speaker 1: that effort, you know, just black actress and been like, hey,

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Speaker 1: you should play Aida in this movie. But no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: they had to. They had to darken sophia En skin

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Speaker 1: very uncomfortable, bad, bad bad, and the singing was dubbed

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Speaker 1: by this superstar Renata Tibaldi, and another actress had actually

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Speaker 1: turned down the part because she didn't want to be dubbed,

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Speaker 1: to which Sophia answered, quote, I couldn't afford to be

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Speaker 1: so proud, that's true. I mean I'm just starting out,

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Speaker 1: You're like, yeah, dubbed me like in my first movie.

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Speaker 1: At this point, I just need the money. I already

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Speaker 1: got to deal with the black face, you know, like

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Speaker 1: I mean for real, like oh man, Well, speaking of

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Speaker 1: appearances and appropriateness, Sophia started to get a taste at

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Speaker 1: this point for how the film industry is infested with

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Speaker 1: aganistic dick bags, because cameraman started saying, and I'm telling

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Speaker 1: you this is true. I've had a hard time wrapping

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Speaker 1: my brain around it. But cameraman started saying of her

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Speaker 1: that Sophia loren wasn't pretty enough to be a star.

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Speaker 1: They said her mouth was too wide, and her chin

400
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Speaker 1: was too broad, and her nose was too big. What Sophia,

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Speaker 1: Lorena just want to make sure everybody knows who were

402
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Speaker 1: talking about here. And they said she was not attractive

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Speaker 1: enough to be a movie star. And one day Carlo

404
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:38,360
Speaker 1: came to her and said, quote, you know, the camera men,

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Speaker 1: they say that your nose is a too long. Maybe

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Speaker 1: you have to touch it a little bit, to which

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Speaker 1: Sophia replied, quote, I don't want to touch nothing on

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Speaker 1: my face because I like in my face. If I

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Speaker 1: have to change my nose, I'm going back to Potswati. Yes,

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Speaker 1: she just gave him that Italian attitude. She's like, don't

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Speaker 1: you talk about my nose? Okay, And also her nose

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Speaker 1: is small, like she doesn't have she's got a beautiful nose. Yeah,

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00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 1: I like your face too, so feel her in. Like yeah,

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Speaker 1: they she said like that everyone was looking for the

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00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:16,760
Speaker 1: this French little French turned up nose around that time,

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Speaker 1: and she's like, can you imagine my face with one

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Speaker 1: of those noses? No, I can't because your face is perfect.

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Speaker 1: Feel her in. That's how they do, though they give

419
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:29,399
Speaker 1: you some real unrealistic ship like with Judy Garland, they

420
00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:31,000
Speaker 1: were just kept being like you need to be thinner,

421
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:32,439
Speaker 1: and they weren't that. I mean, they basically want a

422
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:36,359
Speaker 1: skeleton and address it's saying, I like people have skin

423
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:41,640
Speaker 1: and like fat and from you, like you're literally wasting

424
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:45,359
Speaker 1: these women away for nothing, looking for something that can't

425
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:49,120
Speaker 1: be a thing, Like that's not anyway. So I'm glad

426
00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:51,800
Speaker 1: Sophia at least knew that she had a pretty fucking face.

427
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:53,720
Speaker 1: And she was like, you know what, I'm keeping my face.

428
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:55,160
Speaker 1: Yeah it is. And she was like if you don't

429
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 1: like it, then I'm going home. Yeah, I'll take my

430
00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:00,640
Speaker 1: nose and I'll leave you know, home where on multiple

431
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:09,679
Speaker 1: beauty pagets. But around this time she's nineteen and despite Nosegate,

432
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:14,320
Speaker 1: Sophia starts to realize that she is in love with Carlo,

433
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 1: and they grew closer and closer until they were practically inseparable,

434
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:23,160
Speaker 1: and soon their affairs started. She felt like nobody really

435
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:25,960
Speaker 1: saw her like he did, and she wrote that he

436
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:31,560
Speaker 1: saw her quote reserved personality, difficult past, and great longing

437
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:37,359
Speaker 1: to be successful seriously and with passion. Rachel Grebben writes

438
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:41,280
Speaker 1: in Propeller magazine that Sophia's passion and intensity is clear

439
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:44,920
Speaker 1: in her movies, with her focus and intensity showing a

440
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:47,560
Speaker 1: woman who was at a certain level acting as if

441
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:51,880
Speaker 1: her life depends on it, and Carlo was her mentor

442
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 1: and manager, but he was also incredibly supportive and validating.

443
00:28:56,560 --> 00:29:01,120
Speaker 1: So you know, it's tough with these age despaired especially

444
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 1: when Carlo is clearly a mentor in a mentor position

445
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:09,000
Speaker 1: with her. You know, if their relationship was happening today,

446
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 1: there would probably be some kind of conversation around whether

447
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:14,360
Speaker 1: or not he groomed her from a young age to

448
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:17,200
Speaker 1: fall in love with him or something like that, and that,

449
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 1: I mean, I think it would be fair to ask that.

450
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:23,560
Speaker 1: But anyway that that will come up again. We'll probably

451
00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 1: get more into that as we go. But right now

452
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 1: they're just in love and they're having a wonderful affair

453
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:31,080
Speaker 1: and everything is great and they want to be together.

454
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 1: But they couldn't just run off into the sunset live

455
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 1: happily ever after, because even though Carlo's marriage was indeed

456
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 1: already falling apart, and he and his wife both amicably

457
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:47,160
Speaker 1: wanted to be separated. But Italy, if you haven't heard,

458
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 1: is super Catholic. No way, Yeah, some say that, like

459
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 1: you know, maybe the most the most Catholic place, and

460
00:29:56,920 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 1: at this time, divorce is very illegal. The Vatican just

461
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:04,520
Speaker 1: flat out would not allow it. And Sophia herself was

462
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 1: a very traditional Catholic, not so much religious. She was

463
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:09,760
Speaker 1: a religious, but not deeply religious person, but she was

464
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:13,400
Speaker 1: a very traditional person, and she also came from a

465
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 1: very fractured family and she did not want the same

466
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:21,000
Speaker 1: to happen to her. She wanted stability and tradition. They

467
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 1: both wanted to be married. Meanwhile, they also both wanted

468
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 1: Sophia to take the next step in her acting career

469
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:34,719
Speaker 1: and go to America to make big Hollywood movies. So

470
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:38,280
Speaker 1: coming up, we'll find out if Sophia and Carlo managed

471
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:42,000
Speaker 1: to get married and the very very famous Hollywood side

472
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 1: piece that almost derailed them. So we'll be right back

473
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:52,920
Speaker 1: and welcome back to the show. So Carlo and Sophia

474
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:55,320
Speaker 1: are going strong, and as much as they tried to

475
00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:57,959
Speaker 1: keep their relationship out of the spotlight, of course rumors

476
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 1: are flying. Tabloids are desperate it to put them in

477
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:03,960
Speaker 1: headlines as often as possible, and you know, just gossip

478
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 1: rags because I mean, this is a rising international superstar

479
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 1: and a man twenty one years older than her who

480
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:14,800
Speaker 1: was already married, so you know, is page six fodder

481
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 1: for days and days and days and days. And Carlo

482
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 1: actually proposed to Sophia in secret in nineteen fifty four

483
00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:25,680
Speaker 1: and gave her like a big fat diamond ring. But

484
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 1: Sophia was still kind of depressed because she's so desperately

485
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:32,040
Speaker 1: wanted like a legitimate marriage and family. It's like all

486
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:35,959
Speaker 1: this secrecy and running around was just not sexy for her.

487
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 1: She didn't like that it wasn't the vibe she was

488
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:42,360
Speaker 1: going for. But they continued on as best they could

489
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:46,520
Speaker 1: in both their relationship and their careers. Carlo helped Sophia

490
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:50,040
Speaker 1: get English speaking lessons, and now she's finally starting to

491
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:54,320
Speaker 1: get some real international recognition as a leading lady, and

492
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:56,400
Speaker 1: this led to her getting the lead role in the

493
00:31:56,440 --> 00:32:01,280
Speaker 1: nine movie The Pride and the Passion, opposite two big

494
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 1: Hollywood stars, Frank Sinatra and Carrie Grant, And that brings

495
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:20,120
Speaker 1: us right into this episode side action. Oh yeah, Frank

496
00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:24,360
Speaker 1: Sinatra and Carrie Grant. When I think those names, I think, uh,

497
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:31,240
Speaker 1: treating women well and fidelity, you know, really strong moral

498
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:36,720
Speaker 1: character constancy. That's what I think of. So this film,

499
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:39,040
Speaker 1: The Pride in the Passion is an American Hollywood movie,

500
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:42,840
Speaker 1: but they're shooting in Spain. The rumors are that Frank

501
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 1: Sinatra wanted to be closer to his wife, Ava Gardner,

502
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 1: who was shooting The Sun also rises in Spain at

503
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:52,480
Speaker 1: the time, and they were having a rough time in

504
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:54,800
Speaker 1: their marriage. So Frank was like, let's let's shoot in

505
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:56,440
Speaker 1: Spain so I can be close to her, maybe try

506
00:32:56,440 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 1: and salvage this thing. Meanwhile, Carrie Grant was, yeah, it

507
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:03,680
Speaker 1: sounds great, let's shoot in Spain. Because he was trying

508
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 1: to get some distance from his wife, who was his

509
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 1: third wife, actress and writer Betsy Drake. Damn funny. One

510
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 1: wants to be closer, one wants to be further away.

511
00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:17,040
Speaker 1: It all worked out great. That's just so Hollywood, isn't it.

512
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:22,440
Speaker 1: So suddenly this two year old Sophia Loren finds herself

513
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:26,560
Speaker 1: being charmed and enchanted by Carrie Grant, who is actually

514
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:29,800
Speaker 1: thirty years older than her. So he's even older than

515
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:33,680
Speaker 1: her than Carlo Pontiez. He's fifty two at this point.

516
00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 1: She wrote in her autobiography that carry won her over

517
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:41,240
Speaker 1: with good manners and excitement and quote a zest for life.

518
00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:43,960
Speaker 1: She said it was fortunate that they were staying in

519
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:48,520
Speaker 1: two separate hotels because that kept some distance between them,

520
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:52,000
Speaker 1: because she was like, I tried to keep a certain distance.

521
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:55,000
Speaker 1: She's like, I wasn't trying to get too involved, but

522
00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 1: I did kind of like this guy. You know, he

523
00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:00,360
Speaker 1: was very charming. She had this kind of schoolgirl crush

524
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:03,760
Speaker 1: on him. And they talked and found out that they

525
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 1: had a lot in common. They had a rough upbringing.

526
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:09,279
Speaker 1: They were swept up by the film industry. That very

527
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:12,200
Speaker 1: much changed you know who who They were. He actually

528
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:15,840
Speaker 1: also changed his name early on to Carry Grant. Do

529
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:20,000
Speaker 1: you know, do you know his original name. It's very British. Oh,

530
00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 1: is it like angle Bird humberd Ink type British Archibald Leech,

531
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:29,320
Speaker 1: Archibald Leech. Yeah, that sounds like a kid's book series,

532
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:37,120
Speaker 1: like a detective Archibald Leech Archibald Leeches. Yes, totally. And

533
00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:40,920
Speaker 1: he sold everything by asking a single quick. Yeah. He

534
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:45,279
Speaker 1: was a London stage actor before going to Hollywood. He

535
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:47,680
Speaker 1: was Archibald Leech in England and then they were like

536
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:50,480
Speaker 1: that's not going to work over here. Think what's the

537
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:53,480
Speaker 1: most American name you can think of? How about Carry Grant.

538
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:58,240
Speaker 1: We'll give you two men's names, Carry and Grant. Carrie

539
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:01,480
Speaker 1: Grant said that sometimes he felt his on screen persona

540
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:05,600
Speaker 1: started to infect his personality. He once said, quote, I

541
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:08,760
Speaker 1: pretended to become a certain type of man on screen,

542
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:12,360
Speaker 1: and I became that man in life. I became Carry Grant,

543
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:15,319
Speaker 1: which makes more sense that it's not even his real name.

544
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,759
Speaker 1: Like he's like, I'm Archibald Leech from London and now

545
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 1: I'm Carry groan out. That's totally different. Yeah, he's like

546
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:23,880
Speaker 1: I turned into that, you know, he always played like

547
00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:28,280
Speaker 1: playboys and wealthy men and you know, you know, just

548
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:30,840
Speaker 1: shelling out cash and sailing on yachts and stuff, and

549
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:33,719
Speaker 1: he's like, I turned into that guy. Kind of it

550
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 1: kind of shows, you know, Hollywood can can can screw

551
00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:39,200
Speaker 1: people up in all kinds of different ways. I mean,

552
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:41,680
Speaker 1: it can make a really normal person into kind of

553
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:44,839
Speaker 1: a LEAs bag. That's true and well, and it kind

554
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:47,399
Speaker 1: of shows that you do have to sort of play

555
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:51,000
Speaker 1: a character in order to operate in Hollywood. Even just

556
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:55,680
Speaker 1: in normal life and everyday interactions, you still have to

557
00:35:55,760 --> 00:36:00,080
Speaker 1: be carry Grant or whomever you are, and like I

558
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:02,680
Speaker 1: can really skew ship. You know they talk about like

559
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:05,799
Speaker 1: cops going undercover and getting too getting into deep. You know,

560
00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 1: it changed their personality and now they're one of the

561
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:10,920
Speaker 1: Buffio guys or whatever. But like you don't ever think

562
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:13,800
Speaker 1: about that with like actors who really or or anyone

563
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:17,239
Speaker 1: famous who literally has to have a different personality in

564
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:20,440
Speaker 1: order like a public persona, And it might kind of

565
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:25,000
Speaker 1: like take over and Glomanta what used to be there?

566
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 1: Happened to me? Oh yeah, yeah, I used to be

567
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:33,000
Speaker 1: very different than the character that hosts this show. But

568
00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:37,439
Speaker 1: since we've started I really found myself morphing into him. Yeah,

569
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:41,200
Speaker 1: what's different? Oh you know, um, I sit down a

570
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:48,799
Speaker 1: lot more, that's it. But yeah. But so Sophia at

571
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:51,439
Speaker 1: this time is so vulnerable. I mean she could still

572
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:54,000
Speaker 1: barely speak English at this point. I mean this was

573
00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:58,040
Speaker 1: her first English speaking movie. So actually her lines were

574
00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:01,120
Speaker 1: written out phonetically on q car for her to read

575
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:03,560
Speaker 1: while they were filming, so that she could get it,

576
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:07,000
Speaker 1: you know, pronunciations right and stuff. So he's over here

577
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 1: playing Carry Grant in real life, a handsome playboy, handing

578
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:13,520
Speaker 1: out expensive gifts and stuff, you know, and she's feeling

579
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:16,560
Speaker 1: kind of out of her elements in the middle of

580
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:19,720
Speaker 1: this Hollywood set, trying to speak a language she doesn't speak,

581
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:22,800
Speaker 1: you know. So of course she's turning to him for comfort,

582
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:25,000
Speaker 1: you know. Of course she's she's like, yes, let me,

583
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 1: you know, curl up in this powerful man's embrace, ye,

584
00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:32,240
Speaker 1: and let him take care of me. So the pride

585
00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:34,640
Speaker 1: and the passion raps shooting. But Carry is not ready

586
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:39,080
Speaker 1: to say goodbye to Sophia. His wife, Betsy Drake, had

587
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:42,520
Speaker 1: written a screenplay called Houseboat, which they were supposed to

588
00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:47,400
Speaker 1: star in together. Betsy and Carry instead Carry Grant pulls

589
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:50,879
Speaker 1: this ship. He goes to the producers and he says,

590
00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:54,040
Speaker 1: I want Sophia in that part instead, and they end

591
00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 1: up rewriting the script, recasting his wife with Sophia, and

592
00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:04,440
Speaker 1: ultimately Betsy got zero credit as a screenwriter. Yes, yes, children,

593
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:08,080
Speaker 1: who that's right. This is a bad man name. I

594
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:11,000
Speaker 1: gotta say. I love Carrie Grant, the actor, I mean

595
00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:14,320
Speaker 1: arsenic and old. Lace is one of the funniest movies,

596
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:21,759
Speaker 1: and he is amazing in it, but he sucks, not

597
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:24,279
Speaker 1: good with women. And again it's you could go back

598
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:28,720
Speaker 1: and say, well, look what this industry turned him into,

599
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:32,120
Speaker 1: but you know there's a certain level of personal responsibility

600
00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:36,400
Speaker 1: as well. Sure, so anyway, they're shooting this movie house Boat,

601
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:40,440
Speaker 1: and their affair starts heating up. In fact, the director

602
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:44,680
Speaker 1: of house Boat, Melville Shovelson, later complained that Carrie and

603
00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:48,960
Speaker 1: Sophia's sexual tension made the movie really difficult to shoot,

604
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:52,640
Speaker 1: and the Hollywood gossip columns were like all over this,

605
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:54,640
Speaker 1: so they're all up in their face all the time too.

606
00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:58,800
Speaker 1: When Sophia first arrived in Hollywood, there was a huge

607
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:03,120
Speaker 1: reception in her honor at this like hot fancy restaurant,

608
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:05,719
Speaker 1: you know, you know, the hot spot or whatever, and

609
00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:08,799
Speaker 1: the Papa Rozzie was swarming around. Everyone's trying to get

610
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:13,560
Speaker 1: a glimpse of this new Italian bombshell. But a more

611
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:19,600
Speaker 1: established actress, Jane Mansfield, showed up in this ridiculously low

612
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:22,680
Speaker 1: cut dress, like it is barely clear in the nipples.

613
00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:26,799
Speaker 1: Fair it is very low, yet she's like spilling out

614
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:29,400
Speaker 1: all over the place. And there's this famous picture of

615
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:32,560
Speaker 1: the two of them with Jane laughing. Sophia is sitting

616
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:35,560
Speaker 1: next to her and like totally side eyeing her cleavage.

617
00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:40,680
Speaker 1: It's an amazing picture, schoogle Jane Mainsfield and Sophia Loren.

618
00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:45,000
Speaker 1: Her face says it all. Yes, she Sophia later said, quote,

619
00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:47,880
Speaker 1: she came right from my table. She knew everyone was watching.

620
00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:51,400
Speaker 1: She sat down, Look at the picture. Where are my eyes?

621
00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:53,839
Speaker 1: I'm staring at her nipples because I'm afraid they're going

622
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:56,840
Speaker 1: to come onto my plate. I'm so frightened that everything

623
00:39:56,840 --> 00:39:59,480
Speaker 1: in her dress is gonna blow boom and spill all

624
00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:03,920
Speaker 1: over the t able. You can see it. You can

625
00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:05,839
Speaker 1: see that in her eyes. You can see it. She's like,

626
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:09,480
Speaker 1: it's not the kind of attention I was looking for. Tonight,

627
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:13,719
Speaker 1: but historians agree that this was totally a calculated move

628
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:17,279
Speaker 1: by Jane Mansfield, who at the time, you know, was

629
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:20,720
Speaker 1: like an on genue. So to Jane, she's like, Oh,

630
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:23,480
Speaker 1: here comes this busty sex object and she's going to

631
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:27,080
Speaker 1: snatch up all the roles, the busty sex object roles

632
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:31,799
Speaker 1: that I want for summers, even though Sophia had all

633
00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:34,879
Speaker 1: previously only been in comedies, so she wasn't like an

634
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:39,400
Speaker 1: ingenue leading woman at this point in her career. Vanity

635
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:42,120
Speaker 1: Fair rights to quote. Jane Mansfield was there to prove

636
00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:46,560
Speaker 1: that there were already homegrown sex goddesses in residence, and

637
00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:49,200
Speaker 1: Sofia could tell that she was trying to kind of

638
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:54,040
Speaker 1: like funk with her a little bit. And Sofia also

639
00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:58,480
Speaker 1: knew that in Hollywood, Italian people were only waiters or gangsters,

640
00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:04,600
Speaker 1: so she she knew she was up against some real obstacles. Yeah,

641
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:10,840
Speaker 1: one being Jane Mansfield's tips and another and another being racism,

642
00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:15,720
Speaker 1: right raxinophobia at least. Yeah, So they start shooting house

643
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:17,960
Speaker 1: Boat and Carrie Grant is really trying to make this

644
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:21,160
Speaker 1: thing work with Sophia. He starts suggesting to her that

645
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:24,840
Speaker 1: they should pray together. For guidance about whether they should

646
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:28,319
Speaker 1: leave their respective partners for each other. One letter he

647
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:32,120
Speaker 1: sent her read quote, Sophia, you'll be in my prayers.

648
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:35,000
Speaker 1: If you think and pray with me for the same

649
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:38,239
Speaker 1: thing and purpose, all will be right and life will

650
00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:42,600
Speaker 1: be good. And he sends her flowers almost every day,

651
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:45,600
Speaker 1: and she found in him something very similar to what

652
00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:50,080
Speaker 1: attracted her to Carlo, this guiding, thoughtful, older man who

653
00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:53,640
Speaker 1: had turned his focus entirely towards her well being. Before

654
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:56,320
Speaker 1: she arrived in America to shoot house Boat, he wrote

655
00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:59,200
Speaker 1: to her saying, this is probably the most important year

656
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:02,879
Speaker 1: of your life. Spend it thoughtfully, dear face. In these

657
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:06,319
Speaker 1: next months you will create lasting impressions by which you'll

658
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:09,799
Speaker 1: be judged and remembered all your life. And he gave

659
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:12,160
Speaker 1: her two gold bracelets and told her she should always

660
00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:14,840
Speaker 1: wear them because they would keep her safe. But you

661
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:17,560
Speaker 1: know what, she actually took his advice to heart because

662
00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:19,759
Speaker 1: she knew she was going to be judged all her

663
00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:23,600
Speaker 1: life for this. Yeah, just like you said. Yeah. Carry.

664
00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:26,280
Speaker 1: Grant got closer and closer with her. Eventually they started

665
00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:30,120
Speaker 1: talking about marriage. There's rumors that he proposed on set

666
00:42:30,239 --> 00:42:34,719
Speaker 1: on the set of houseboat, but Sophia has since denied that. Um.

667
00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:37,480
Speaker 1: But ultimately she turned him down because she still wanted

668
00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:41,239
Speaker 1: to marry Carlo Ponti. She said a lot about this

669
00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:44,239
Speaker 1: over the years, and part of her decision was the

670
00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:47,600
Speaker 1: threat of scandal. She said, quote the American press had

671
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:50,200
Speaker 1: been very cruel to Ingrid Bergmann when she left her

672
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:54,240
Speaker 1: husband for Italian director Roberto Rossellini, and I was terribly

673
00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:56,400
Speaker 1: afraid of what the reaction would have been if I

674
00:42:56,440 --> 00:43:00,120
Speaker 1: had left Italy, and her Italian home was all so

675
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:03,719
Speaker 1: a very big part of her choice as well. Um,

676
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:06,919
Speaker 1: because Carrie Grant, you know, she's sort of like, if

677
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:10,279
Speaker 1: she's marrying Carrie Grant, she's sort of like, now I'm

678
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:14,200
Speaker 1: an American. I live in Hollywood with Carry Grant, and

679
00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:16,640
Speaker 1: that's it. But if she was with Carlo, she would

680
00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:19,080
Speaker 1: still have a very strong tide of her home country.

681
00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:22,160
Speaker 1: They would probably live in Italy, you know. So it

682
00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:26,279
Speaker 1: felt almost seems like a choice between not only two men,

683
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:30,840
Speaker 1: but also two different lifestyles, two different parts of the globe,

684
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:35,239
Speaker 1: like a lot of different different considerations. And yeah, she

685
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:37,680
Speaker 1: said in Hollywood she was really fatigued by the film

686
00:43:37,719 --> 00:43:40,800
Speaker 1: circuit there. She said all she ever talked about with cinema,

687
00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:43,920
Speaker 1: with everyone she knew. She said, quote, I missed my

688
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:48,959
Speaker 1: country steeped in history, with humanity, ordinary people just didn't

689
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:52,960
Speaker 1: seem to exist in Hollywood. She told Vanity Fair quote

690
00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:56,520
Speaker 1: Carlo was Italian, he belonged to my world. I know

691
00:43:56,719 --> 00:43:59,319
Speaker 1: it was the right thing for me to do. So

692
00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:02,520
Speaker 1: she gave carry Grant the boot, although they did remain

693
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:04,520
Speaker 1: close friends throughout their lives, so he didn't take it

694
00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:07,720
Speaker 1: too personally. Reports Worth that he was a little upset

695
00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:10,560
Speaker 1: when she found out that she and Carlo were getting married,

696
00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:13,040
Speaker 1: but he's you know, he was okay. They were friends,

697
00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:17,560
Speaker 1: and she decided for sure, yes Carlo, I need to

698
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:20,360
Speaker 1: marry him. I'm going to make this life happen. But

699
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:24,040
Speaker 1: not so fast. There's still Carlo's marriage the Juliana Fiastria

700
00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:26,560
Speaker 1: to worry about, and they would have to go toe

701
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:30,440
Speaker 1: to toe with the Pope himself to make it work.

702
00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:36,480
Speaker 1: What a disasty, I see. So we are going to

703
00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:39,560
Speaker 1: pick a fight with the pope right after this commercial break.

704
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:41,799
Speaker 1: How do you like that? Sponsors? We're going to pick

705
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:48,680
Speaker 1: a fight with and we're back and ready to take

706
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:51,480
Speaker 1: on another supreme religious leader in the name of love.

707
00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:55,680
Speaker 1: How we do on the show, Well, they keep getting

708
00:44:55,719 --> 00:45:00,520
Speaker 1: in the way. I right, bunch of really just leaders

709
00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:03,840
Speaker 1: in the way of that one. Tons also popes actually

710
00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:09,319
Speaker 1: that one. Well, in nineteen fifty seven, Carlo thought he

711
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:13,080
Speaker 1: had it all figured out. His lawyers were working overtime

712
00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:17,279
Speaker 1: now to get them married and speculation station. I think

713
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:19,440
Speaker 1: maybe this is because, like you know, Carrie Grant is

714
00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:22,759
Speaker 1: out there proposing to her, like, come on, we gotta

715
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:24,920
Speaker 1: get this movie in. Like I think she's gonna be

716
00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:28,319
Speaker 1: in a movie with like Humphrey Bogart next, I don't know, Like,

717
00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:31,279
Speaker 1: hurry up, guys, you gotta lock this down. He's like,

718
00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:34,919
Speaker 1: that's so great, honey, I'm so excited about the move.

719
00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:37,840
Speaker 1: And he immediately turns around. He's like, how do you up, guys,

720
00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:41,240
Speaker 1: It's the time to get married. She's getting some really

721
00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:44,799
Speaker 1: hot parts. It's some really hot guys. Have you seen

722
00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:48,439
Speaker 1: the meat. I'm a twice at age and half her height.

723
00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:53,480
Speaker 1: So his lawyers come back and they're like, sir, we

724
00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:57,239
Speaker 1: found a loophole. We can divorce you and Juliana and

725
00:45:57,400 --> 00:46:00,919
Speaker 1: marry you and Sophia all in Mexico. You don't even

726
00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:04,200
Speaker 1: need to be there. Oh, perfect, yeah, and he's like

727
00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:10,839
Speaker 1: see see yes, spaghassi, sprigarci spearci. That's Italian for hurry up.

728
00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:17,600
Speaker 1: According to Google Translate, takes longer to say sprigarci. S

729
00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:22,759
Speaker 1: got we got a sprigarcy with this episode, so they

730
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:27,560
Speaker 1: just do it. It's September, right before Sophia's twenty five birthday,

731
00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:30,120
Speaker 1: and neither of them had even gotten the official word

732
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:32,600
Speaker 1: that the marriage had gone through before they read it

733
00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:36,440
Speaker 1: in a gossip column that next morning. So, honey, if

734
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:41,200
Speaker 1: you heard were marriage, yeah right here on page three.

735
00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:45,080
Speaker 1: So even Carlo was surprised and finally happened. They returned

736
00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:49,880
Speaker 1: to Italy and they go to Capri to celebrate both occasions,

737
00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:54,239
Speaker 1: their wedding and her twenty five birthday. I'd love to

738
00:46:54,239 --> 00:46:57,239
Speaker 1: go to Capri to celebrate my freaking birthday. Well, we

739
00:46:57,239 --> 00:46:59,759
Speaker 1: did go to Capri to celebrate our freaking wedding. That's

740
00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:02,319
Speaker 1: that's something that's true. In fact, let's take a little

741
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:04,720
Speaker 1: break here and reminisce. Let's take a little reminiscence break

742
00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:10,120
Speaker 1: about our amazing honeymoon where we got to spend a

743
00:47:10,239 --> 00:47:13,239
Speaker 1: day in on the Isle of Capri. It's true because

744
00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:15,880
Speaker 1: we were staying on Sorrento. Sorrento one of my favorite

745
00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:19,080
Speaker 1: places in the world ever. Get to go there, really gorgeous.

746
00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:21,719
Speaker 1: And we went to Pompey one day and then another

747
00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:23,759
Speaker 1: day we went to Capri. Capri, took a little boat

748
00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:25,600
Speaker 1: ride out. We had this bed and breakfast we were

749
00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:29,480
Speaker 1: staying in. It was incredible and they were so nice.

750
00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:34,439
Speaker 1: Barbara maybe the best cappuccino I ever had. Um so good.

751
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:37,960
Speaker 1: The breakfast was so good every morning, and she was

752
00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:41,160
Speaker 1: kind of a grumpy Polish lady, but she was awesome, perfect.

753
00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:44,440
Speaker 1: It was amazing. And uh, we got to take a

754
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:46,520
Speaker 1: boat ride out to Capri, which is this little island

755
00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:51,360
Speaker 1: off the coast of Naples, and it's incredible. It's just

756
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:55,000
Speaker 1: this tiny little village. Um these cliffs we got to

757
00:47:55,200 --> 00:47:58,080
Speaker 1: we got to swim. The water was amazing. It was cold,

758
00:47:58,200 --> 00:47:59,840
Speaker 1: was cold because it was the middle of October, but

759
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:04,080
Speaker 1: well yeah, but it was so clear, god, beautiful color.

760
00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:07,040
Speaker 1: I mean, you had to get in because the Mediterranean

761
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:10,400
Speaker 1: what we're not get in were I remember a shivering

762
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:13,360
Speaker 1: in the water being like, but we have to swim

763
00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:19,560
Speaker 1: in the really enjoyed this, damn it also just to

764
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:23,000
Speaker 1: tangent off on this little bit. Capri is known for

765
00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:27,359
Speaker 1: their lemon cello, which is a lemon flavored liqueur. It's

766
00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:31,200
Speaker 1: very thick and sweet and um. Well, Danna wanted to

767
00:48:31,239 --> 00:48:34,759
Speaker 1: tell us about lemon cello. I mean, I vomited that

768
00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:38,960
Speaker 1: I didn't vomit, but I really do hate The taste

769
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:42,600
Speaker 1: of it is just awful, heinous. I don't understand the

770
00:48:42,600 --> 00:48:46,480
Speaker 1: point of it. Horrible in every way. The Americans that

771
00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:48,719
Speaker 1: we were on the boat trip with, at one point

772
00:48:48,719 --> 00:48:51,080
Speaker 1: we all had lunch together and one of them bought

773
00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:54,480
Speaker 1: a round of lemon cello shots for everyone or whatever.

774
00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:56,880
Speaker 1: It's like a treat forever, so nice, you know, whatever,

775
00:48:57,080 --> 00:49:00,680
Speaker 1: we took it. I was like, I was like, I

776
00:49:00,719 --> 00:49:03,120
Speaker 1: am so grossed out. I think I had to finish yours.

777
00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:04,880
Speaker 1: I think so because I was trying to be polite,

778
00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:07,080
Speaker 1: and I'm like, you know, for me, it's like if

779
00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:09,279
Speaker 1: someone gets you something, you kind of have to finish it.

780
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:11,200
Speaker 1: Like it's really rude to not so I was like

781
00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:15,319
Speaker 1: trying so hard. I was so gross And we get

782
00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:17,920
Speaker 1: back on the boat and everything's great, and the captain

783
00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:21,040
Speaker 1: takes us back to to our port, you know, so

784
00:49:21,120 --> 00:49:23,600
Speaker 1: into Sorrento or whatever. To get on the van back

785
00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:27,799
Speaker 1: to where we go, wherever we're staying, and as we

786
00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:32,719
Speaker 1: pull up to port, He's like, and now a complimentary

787
00:49:32,760 --> 00:49:38,240
Speaker 1: shot of lemon cello for everyone. Diana just turns green.

788
00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:42,560
Speaker 1: I think I might have done like a sitcom thing,

789
00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:48,960
Speaker 1: right straight up through whatever into the ocean. They have

790
00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:52,240
Speaker 1: done that, literally, But it was such an amazing time.

791
00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:54,600
Speaker 1: I would definitely drink lemon cello again. If that was

792
00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:57,560
Speaker 1: the cost of going to Catherine, I would do it.

793
00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:01,120
Speaker 1: I really, if I could devote my self to a cause,

794
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:04,480
Speaker 1: it would be to provide travel to everyone. I mean,

795
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:06,680
Speaker 1: everybody should be able to travel. You know, we were

796
00:50:06,719 --> 00:50:08,719
Speaker 1: able to do it for this honeymoon because we did

797
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:11,480
Speaker 1: like a honey fund or we just collected money instead

798
00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:14,200
Speaker 1: of gifts, and that was and that was everything we wanted.

799
00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:16,279
Speaker 1: We didn't need stuff. We just wanted to take a trip,

800
00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:18,279
Speaker 1: and we're able to take this amazing trip. And I

801
00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:21,600
Speaker 1: just wish everyone could do that, because it's not fair

802
00:50:21,640 --> 00:50:24,080
Speaker 1: that people can't. And this if if you, if you

803
00:50:24,239 --> 00:50:28,240
Speaker 1: get the chance um to ever go to Italy, I

804
00:50:28,239 --> 00:50:31,640
Speaker 1: I highly recommend Sorrento. I loved it. It is it

805
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:34,719
Speaker 1: is a beach town. I mean, not like Florida. It is,

806
00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:39,560
Speaker 1: but it is very heavily Yeah, it's very heavily frequented

807
00:50:39,560 --> 00:50:44,799
Speaker 1: by British tourists especially, but it's because it's remarkable. It's gorgeous.

808
00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:47,480
Speaker 1: The food is some of the best food I've ever

809
00:50:47,560 --> 00:50:50,600
Speaker 1: eaten in my life. I'm still thinking about this caprice

810
00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:55,359
Speaker 1: salad like a salad, you guys, I'm dreaming of it

811
00:50:56,000 --> 00:50:57,360
Speaker 1: and message us so will give you the name of

812
00:50:57,400 --> 00:50:59,279
Speaker 1: the of the B and B that we stayed at.

813
00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:01,560
Speaker 1: We gotta look it up. But yeah, they were and

814
00:51:01,560 --> 00:51:04,279
Speaker 1: the rooms were so beautiful. Yeah that that was just

815
00:51:04,320 --> 00:51:07,080
Speaker 1: an amazing trip. And yeah, for us, we didn't need

816
00:51:07,160 --> 00:51:09,479
Speaker 1: dishes and stuff, we'd already gived together for a few

817
00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:13,000
Speaker 1: years and stuff, And it was the greatest gift that

818
00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:16,280
Speaker 1: we could have gotten because we had such an incredible

819
00:51:16,880 --> 00:51:19,840
Speaker 1: start to our marriage. It was such I guess you

820
00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:22,120
Speaker 1: could say a life changing trip in a lot of ways,

821
00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:25,000
Speaker 1: because it was just so. It was long and involved.

822
00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:26,759
Speaker 1: We had to plan it out really well and work

823
00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:29,319
Speaker 1: really well together. There were times when there was no

824
00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:32,040
Speaker 1: one else spoke English, so it's just the two of us.

825
00:51:32,560 --> 00:51:34,640
Speaker 1: You may have heard. I think I told the story

826
00:51:34,680 --> 00:51:38,200
Speaker 1: before that my phone was stolen on date two of

827
00:51:38,239 --> 00:51:42,000
Speaker 1: our thirties, a time in Europe, so we had to

828
00:51:42,080 --> 00:51:44,239
Speaker 1: learn how to work with one phone between us, and

829
00:51:44,280 --> 00:51:45,759
Speaker 1: which meant we didn't spend a lot of time on

830
00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:48,960
Speaker 1: the phone, which was nice. Yeah, and again it's just

831
00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:53,319
Speaker 1: life long memories that we have together now that that

832
00:51:53,480 --> 00:51:56,239
Speaker 1: just cannot be replaced, you know, unlike a piece of

833
00:51:56,320 --> 00:51:58,919
Speaker 1: china or a pot or a corquitter or something which

834
00:51:58,920 --> 00:52:01,759
Speaker 1: eventually you will replace with something else. So anyway, I

835
00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:04,719
Speaker 1: would just say, if you're hesitating and you want to

836
00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:07,040
Speaker 1: do something like that, just do it and explain that

837
00:52:07,080 --> 00:52:10,680
Speaker 1: to anyone who feels badly about it. It really is

838
00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:13,280
Speaker 1: just it's so worth it. It's so worth it. Yeah,

839
00:52:13,320 --> 00:52:16,879
Speaker 1: it's really really amazing and that was an amazing trip.

840
00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:18,920
Speaker 1: And we will never stop talking about it. Yes, we

841
00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:22,800
Speaker 1: will never stop, but we're gonna at least pause talking

842
00:52:22,800 --> 00:52:24,800
Speaker 1: about it so we can get back to the story. Yeah,

843
00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:27,760
Speaker 1: the marriage we really care about, which is Sophia Loren

844
00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:31,600
Speaker 1: and Carlo Ponty. So yeah, they had no official like

845
00:52:31,600 --> 00:52:35,160
Speaker 1: white dress ceremony, but legally Sophia was finally married to

846
00:52:35,200 --> 00:52:39,640
Speaker 1: the man she loved ya triumph, and they celebrated in

847
00:52:39,640 --> 00:52:43,000
Speaker 1: their private bungalow with a nice dinner, and they finally

848
00:52:43,040 --> 00:52:46,799
Speaker 1: relaxed into this true like honeymoon phase of their relationship.

849
00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:50,000
Speaker 1: But it was all cut short because a month later

850
00:52:50,120 --> 00:52:53,040
Speaker 1: they learned that Pope John the twenty three, who was

851
00:52:53,080 --> 00:52:56,920
Speaker 1: widely seen as a very liberal pope, said they're divorce

852
00:52:57,080 --> 00:53:01,799
Speaker 1: and marriage would not be recognized. The official Vatican newspaper

853
00:53:01,880 --> 00:53:05,360
Speaker 1: posted an article that the marriage of an anonymous, quote

854
00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:08,640
Speaker 1: young beautiful Italian film actress, So everyone was like, let

855
00:53:08,640 --> 00:53:14,839
Speaker 1: me put two and two together. It's Jake Jollenhall. They

856
00:53:14,880 --> 00:53:18,760
Speaker 1: said the marriage was illegal and if they lived together

857
00:53:18,840 --> 00:53:22,400
Speaker 1: they could be arrested, and the pope threatened them with

858
00:53:22,480 --> 00:53:28,040
Speaker 1: excommunication from the church and said they faced eternal damnation. So,

859
00:53:28,120 --> 00:53:31,000
Speaker 1: despite finally getting the marriage she always wanted, Sofia said

860
00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:33,920
Speaker 1: this was the saddest day of her life, which, of

861
00:53:33,960 --> 00:53:35,919
Speaker 1: course it is if you're like, I'm just in love

862
00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:38,440
Speaker 1: with someone and he's not in love with her anymore,

863
00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:40,600
Speaker 1: but you want us all to be unhappy or else

864
00:53:40,680 --> 00:53:44,399
Speaker 1: have to go to hell? Right? Thank wow? I feel

865
00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:48,280
Speaker 1: so comforted by religion, my comfort. Thank goodness. I devoted

866
00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:52,319
Speaker 1: my life to this comfort of religion, and then in

867
00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:59,000
Speaker 1: steps this week's villain of the week, Luisa Brambila. Luisa

868
00:53:59,560 --> 00:54:03,680
Speaker 1: Luis is Nope, just to somebody, She's just this random

869
00:54:03,719 --> 00:54:07,400
Speaker 1: housewife from Milan. But she felt like this kind of

870
00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:13,239
Speaker 1: seedy promiscuity was gonna tear the country apart, and under

871
00:54:13,280 --> 00:54:18,120
Speaker 1: Italian law, any citizen may bring criminal charges against any

872
00:54:18,120 --> 00:54:21,959
Speaker 1: other Italian citizen. So she went ahead, took it upon

873
00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:25,200
Speaker 1: her own damn self to file bigamy charges against the

874
00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:33,360
Speaker 1: Pontis what a karen. Everyone was like another Lauisa walked

875
00:54:33,360 --> 00:54:41,200
Speaker 1: in today manager asking for the Pope. I'd like to

876
00:54:41,239 --> 00:54:46,000
Speaker 1: speak to your pope please, I have some charges to file.

877
00:54:47,880 --> 00:54:52,120
Speaker 1: So Carlo and Sophia were effectively forced into exile. They

878
00:54:52,120 --> 00:54:54,120
Speaker 1: had to leave the country because they were having these

879
00:54:54,239 --> 00:54:57,919
Speaker 1: charges leveled against them, like serious charges, so they moved

880
00:54:57,920 --> 00:55:00,960
Speaker 1: around for years. They would rent how is in France

881
00:55:01,080 --> 00:55:05,520
Speaker 1: or in Switzerland, and Sophia missed Italy so badly that

882
00:55:05,640 --> 00:55:08,280
Speaker 1: Carlo would drive her to the top of a pass

883
00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:10,959
Speaker 1: in the Swiss Alps just as she could look down

884
00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:13,719
Speaker 1: over her home country and get a glimpse at it.

885
00:55:13,719 --> 00:55:17,600
Speaker 1: It kind of makes me want to cry heartbreaking. She

886
00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:21,879
Speaker 1: loved Italy. I mean, she had already turned down other

887
00:55:21,920 --> 00:55:24,480
Speaker 1: opportunities so that she could be in her home with

888
00:55:24,520 --> 00:55:28,680
Speaker 1: the person she loved. That's all she ever wanted. In

889
00:55:28,800 --> 00:55:34,040
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty two, Ponti's lawyers found out that the Mexican

890
00:55:34,080 --> 00:55:37,560
Speaker 1: marriage that they had wasn't legal there either, because they

891
00:55:37,600 --> 00:55:41,040
Speaker 1: hadn't had any witnesses at the proxy wedding, so so

892
00:55:41,080 --> 00:55:44,239
Speaker 1: it wasn't legal in Mexico. Yeah, like this, this was

893
00:55:44,280 --> 00:55:47,480
Speaker 1: totally invalid, okay. And this actually kind of worked in

894
00:55:47,520 --> 00:55:50,399
Speaker 1: their favor, I mean sort of like you know, if

895
00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:53,719
Speaker 1: you can call it that, because their marriage was annulled

896
00:55:54,160 --> 00:55:56,080
Speaker 1: and they were able to move back to Rome because

897
00:55:56,080 --> 00:55:59,440
Speaker 1: the bigamy charges weren't really there. But they still had

898
00:55:59,480 --> 00:56:02,960
Speaker 1: the threat of arrest if they were living together, so

899
00:56:03,840 --> 00:56:06,480
Speaker 1: they had to sneak around. They had to spend nights

900
00:56:06,680 --> 00:56:10,360
Speaker 1: at Sophia's mother, Romilda's apartment, or they had to rent

901
00:56:10,400 --> 00:56:13,440
Speaker 1: homes under secret names. They had to come and go

902
00:56:13,600 --> 00:56:17,399
Speaker 1: separately to events. They couldn't be seen together alone in public. Ever,

903
00:56:18,239 --> 00:56:20,279
Speaker 1: if they were going to the same dinner, one of

904
00:56:20,280 --> 00:56:21,680
Speaker 1: them would have to show up first and the other

905
00:56:21,719 --> 00:56:23,480
Speaker 1: would have to hang back and come later, and they'd

906
00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:27,040
Speaker 1: have to leave at separate times. They just if at

907
00:56:27,080 --> 00:56:30,120
Speaker 1: any point it looked like they were a couple in public,

908
00:56:30,440 --> 00:56:35,560
Speaker 1: they could be arrested. That's nuts. And they lived like

909
00:56:35,600 --> 00:56:39,000
Speaker 1: this for four years, which is I mean, it sounds

910
00:56:39,000 --> 00:56:42,960
Speaker 1: intolerable for even one year, like four years so frustrating.

911
00:56:43,520 --> 00:56:46,320
Speaker 1: She later said, quote, I wanted to be his wife

912
00:56:46,360 --> 00:56:48,759
Speaker 1: and have his children. We had done the best the

913
00:56:48,800 --> 00:56:50,879
Speaker 1: law would allow to make it official, but they were

914
00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:54,200
Speaker 1: calling us public sinners. We should have been taking a honeymoon.

915
00:56:54,520 --> 00:56:57,800
Speaker 1: But all I remember is weeping for hours. It's awful.

916
00:56:58,320 --> 00:57:01,040
Speaker 1: So sad woman. All she wanted was this wedding, and

917
00:57:01,040 --> 00:57:05,440
Speaker 1: now she's, you know, in tears, right and again literally like,

918
00:57:05,600 --> 00:57:08,960
Speaker 1: no one is getting hurt here by the divorce and remarriage.

919
00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:11,840
Speaker 1: The only people getting hurt are by you being so

920
00:57:12,480 --> 00:57:17,560
Speaker 1: strict about human nature. So Pope John died of stomach

921
00:57:17,640 --> 00:57:23,120
Speaker 1: cancer in nineteen sixty three, so maybe maybe, But his successor,

922
00:57:23,200 --> 00:57:27,640
Speaker 1: Paul the sixth, reiterated the same outrageous accusations against them.

923
00:57:28,480 --> 00:57:36,240
Speaker 1: Two one to Pope Stone, before you condemn your marriage.

924
00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:45,120
Speaker 1: Oh oh well, I'm sorry. Yeah, you've all got that

925
00:57:45,160 --> 00:57:47,840
Speaker 1: in your head for the next fifteen days. Sorry, I

926
00:57:47,840 --> 00:57:50,320
Speaker 1: feel like someone's gonna lodge a bigamy charges against me.

927
00:57:51,280 --> 00:57:53,160
Speaker 1: So yeah, they just really did not know what to do,

928
00:57:53,280 --> 00:57:55,640
Speaker 1: because I mean, one pope is something, and then you

929
00:57:55,720 --> 00:57:58,400
Speaker 1: get a second pope and like, actually no, I still

930
00:57:58,440 --> 00:58:01,360
Speaker 1: think this sucks, like what the l and Sofia was

931
00:58:01,400 --> 00:58:04,000
Speaker 1: worried she'd never get the happily married life she always wanted,

932
00:58:04,080 --> 00:58:06,720
Speaker 1: that they'd always have to live in these separate lodgings

933
00:58:06,760 --> 00:58:10,120
Speaker 1: and do all this weird ship to begether. But then

934
00:58:10,320 --> 00:58:16,840
Speaker 1: help came from a strange ally Julianna Fiastre, Carlos's ex

935
00:58:16,880 --> 00:58:22,320
Speaker 1: wife or current wife if you asked the pope. Yeah,

936
00:58:22,600 --> 00:58:26,040
Speaker 1: and yeah, she walks in. She's like, look, here's what

937
00:58:26,120 --> 00:58:28,840
Speaker 1: we're gonna do. We're all going to move to France,

938
00:58:28,840 --> 00:58:32,160
Speaker 1: so we're going to get French citizenship. Then we're going

939
00:58:32,200 --> 00:58:35,840
Speaker 1: to get a realist divorce. Y'all can get a realist marriage.

940
00:58:35,960 --> 00:58:40,240
Speaker 1: Packing your ship, let's go. Yeah, she had, she had

941
00:58:40,280 --> 00:58:43,640
Speaker 1: the plan, and then she with them, all three of

942
00:58:43,680 --> 00:58:47,640
Speaker 1: them moved to France and applied for French citizenship, and

943
00:58:47,720 --> 00:58:53,840
Speaker 1: sure enough, French President George personally approved their citizenship and

944
00:58:54,000 --> 00:58:58,400
Speaker 1: France granted Carlo and Julianna an official, real life, in

945
00:58:58,560 --> 00:59:03,160
Speaker 1: person divorce, and then in nineteen sixty six, in a

946
00:59:03,280 --> 00:59:08,080
Speaker 1: small discreete ceremony officiated by the Mayor of Sevre, Sophia

947
00:59:08,200 --> 00:59:12,280
Speaker 1: and Carlo were wed once again, and this time all

948
00:59:12,400 --> 00:59:14,400
Speaker 1: the teas were crossed, all the eyes were dotted at

949
00:59:14,400 --> 00:59:18,800
Speaker 1: all the pizzas were pepperoni. Uh. It was universally recognized.

950
00:59:18,880 --> 00:59:21,760
Speaker 1: There's nothing anybody could say or do. They were finally

951
00:59:21,800 --> 00:59:27,080
Speaker 1: able to return to Italy in peace, and now they're married.

952
00:59:27,080 --> 00:59:31,320
Speaker 1: They're happily married. They had two sons together, Carlo Ponti Jr.

953
00:59:31,360 --> 00:59:35,920
Speaker 1: In nineteen sixty eight and Eduardo Ponti in nineteen seventy three,

954
00:59:36,440 --> 00:59:41,120
Speaker 1: and both of them Carlo and Sophia continued to dominate

955
00:59:41,120 --> 00:59:45,320
Speaker 1: in the film industry. In nineteen sixty Sophia was offered

956
00:59:45,360 --> 00:59:48,560
Speaker 1: the role of the daughter in an Italian film called

957
00:59:48,640 --> 00:59:52,640
Speaker 1: Two Women, which Carlo was producing. It was a mother

958
00:59:52,720 --> 00:59:56,320
Speaker 1: daughters story about women in a war torn village in Italy,

959
00:59:56,640 --> 01:00:00,840
Speaker 1: something obviously Sophia could very easily relate to. Literally was

960
01:00:01,000 --> 01:00:03,440
Speaker 1: a daughter in a war torn village in Italy. I

961
01:00:03,440 --> 01:00:06,320
Speaker 1: think she's going through the script like m this isn't accurate, right,

962
01:00:06,520 --> 01:00:12,400
Speaker 1: it's actually a car radiator. Yeah right now. But the

963
01:00:12,440 --> 01:00:14,720
Speaker 1: woman who was playing the mother, who was an older,

964
01:00:14,880 --> 01:00:20,280
Speaker 1: famed Italian actress, she backed out because Sophia Lauren was

965
01:00:20,360 --> 01:00:23,880
Speaker 1: too tall. She felt like it would look ridiculous if

966
01:00:23,920 --> 01:00:26,720
Speaker 1: she was looking up at her daughter for the whole movie.

967
01:00:26,840 --> 01:00:29,280
Speaker 1: She thought people wouldn't take it seriously and just be funny.

968
01:00:30,120 --> 01:00:32,760
Speaker 1: And she's like, you know this, the mother is supposed

969
01:00:32,800 --> 01:00:34,280
Speaker 1: to be fifty, the daughter is supposed to be maybe

970
01:00:34,320 --> 01:00:38,480
Speaker 1: in her late twenties or so, and she totally withdrew

971
01:00:38,520 --> 01:00:41,000
Speaker 1: from the project. On her way out, she joked, you

972
01:00:41,040 --> 01:00:43,960
Speaker 1: hot to get Sophia to play the mother, and the

973
01:00:43,960 --> 01:00:48,880
Speaker 1: producers were like, yeah, that's a good idea, So soundsppen

974
01:00:49,040 --> 01:00:51,720
Speaker 1: to go to me, and they rewrote the part as

975
01:00:51,760 --> 01:00:54,600
Speaker 1: a younger, thirty year old widow with an eighteen year

976
01:00:54,640 --> 01:00:58,280
Speaker 1: old daughter and Sophia as the mother. Now. Yeah, and

977
01:00:58,360 --> 01:01:02,160
Speaker 1: remember she's mostly known for comedies, so this was also

978
01:01:02,360 --> 01:01:07,480
Speaker 1: her big dramatic turn. And you know, the bombing raids,

979
01:01:07,560 --> 01:01:10,920
Speaker 1: the starvation, being trapped in bomb shelters. I mean, Sophia

980
01:01:11,000 --> 01:01:14,360
Speaker 1: is basically playing her own mother, and she drew from

981
01:01:14,360 --> 01:01:19,520
Speaker 1: her experience to pull off an incredible performance. Sophia herself

982
01:01:19,600 --> 01:01:22,960
Speaker 1: later said, quote, before I made Two Women, I was

983
01:01:23,000 --> 01:01:27,160
Speaker 1: a performer. Afterward, I was an actress. And she was

984
01:01:27,240 --> 01:01:30,600
Speaker 1: nominated for an Academy Award for Best Actress. She was

985
01:01:30,680 --> 01:01:34,400
Speaker 1: up against Audrey Hepburn for Breakfast at Tiffany's and Natalie

986
01:01:34,440 --> 01:01:39,960
Speaker 1: Wood for Splendor in the Grass, I mean, among other nominees. Yeah, exactly.

987
01:01:40,000 --> 01:01:42,720
Speaker 1: So she basically was like, oh, I'm very honored, but like,

988
01:01:42,760 --> 01:01:45,000
Speaker 1: there's no way I'm gonna win. I know. That'd be

989
01:01:45,040 --> 01:01:48,760
Speaker 1: like me walking in today and they're like, okay, so

990
01:01:49,000 --> 01:01:52,280
Speaker 1: you're nominated, but you're up against you know, Meryl Streep

991
01:01:52,320 --> 01:01:55,040
Speaker 1: and Lupete and Youngo and I'd be like, all right, well, hey,

992
01:01:55,120 --> 01:01:59,240
Speaker 1: how did I get this category? What did we all

993
01:01:59,280 --> 01:02:03,640
Speaker 1: compete in? And be I'll be staying home that night,

994
01:02:03,680 --> 01:02:06,480
Speaker 1: thank you very much. I'll just go ahead and go

995
01:02:06,560 --> 01:02:09,840
Speaker 1: thank you. So and yeah, she was kind of like,

996
01:02:09,880 --> 01:02:11,640
Speaker 1: it's going to take a lot for me to travel

997
01:02:11,680 --> 01:02:15,120
Speaker 1: to California from Italy for you know, the awards ceremony.

998
01:02:15,520 --> 01:02:18,120
Speaker 1: So she skipped it, saying I didn't think I was

999
01:02:18,160 --> 01:02:20,680
Speaker 1: gonna win. If I win, I'm going to faint. And

1000
01:02:20,720 --> 01:02:23,040
Speaker 1: I think I better faint at home than on stage.

1001
01:02:25,720 --> 01:02:28,440
Speaker 1: She stayed up late waiting for a call about the results,

1002
01:02:28,600 --> 01:02:32,120
Speaker 1: knowing full well that it wouldn't happen, but she had

1003
01:02:32,160 --> 01:02:36,920
Speaker 1: the time change wrong in her head. Totally appreciate that.

1004
01:02:36,960 --> 01:02:40,520
Speaker 1: It's so so hard for me to calculate. I cannot

1005
01:02:40,560 --> 01:02:43,680
Speaker 1: tell you how many dumb mistakes I've made. So she

1006
01:02:43,720 --> 01:02:46,240
Speaker 1: went to sleep at six am, thinking, no news is

1007
01:02:46,320 --> 01:02:48,600
Speaker 1: no news. You know, it went out just exactly how

1008
01:02:48,640 --> 01:02:51,439
Speaker 1: I thought one of those other amazing actresses one and

1009
01:02:51,600 --> 01:02:54,040
Speaker 1: oh well, yeah, they were airing the awards in Italy

1010
01:02:54,120 --> 01:02:56,040
Speaker 1: at the time, so she just had to wait for word.

1011
01:02:57,920 --> 01:03:01,160
Speaker 1: But shortly after she fell asleep, the phone rang and

1012
01:03:01,200 --> 01:03:05,400
Speaker 1: it was Carrie Grant saying, Darling, have you heard? And

1013
01:03:05,440 --> 01:03:08,400
Speaker 1: Sophia Learn became the first woman ever to win a

1014
01:03:08,480 --> 01:03:13,040
Speaker 1: Best Actress oscar for performance in a Foreign Language film. Amazing,

1015
01:03:13,320 --> 01:03:16,240
Speaker 1: very cool. Yeah that was another factor too. I'm sure

1016
01:03:16,280 --> 01:03:18,640
Speaker 1: she was like, well, yeah, I'm nominated, which is great,

1017
01:03:18,680 --> 01:03:21,760
Speaker 1: but I'm it's a you know, they never you never

1018
01:03:21,760 --> 01:03:24,240
Speaker 1: win if you're not in an English speaking movie. And

1019
01:03:24,280 --> 01:03:27,200
Speaker 1: then she did it. She did it, but you know,

1020
01:03:27,520 --> 01:03:30,200
Speaker 1: their life wasn't all glitz and glamor from here on out.

1021
01:03:30,280 --> 01:03:34,520
Speaker 1: They were both having huge success, but scandals followed them too.

1022
01:03:35,080 --> 01:03:40,240
Speaker 1: In nineteen seventy five, Carlos survived a kidnapping attempt when

1023
01:03:40,280 --> 01:03:44,640
Speaker 1: his car was ambushed and riddled with bullets. Oh my god. Yeah,

1024
01:03:44,680 --> 01:03:46,800
Speaker 1: I don't know a lot about this, but I did

1025
01:03:46,840 --> 01:03:48,920
Speaker 1: read that apparently this was a period of time that

1026
01:03:48,960 --> 01:03:52,880
Speaker 1: Italians referred to as years of lead, which I took

1027
01:03:52,920 --> 01:03:54,120
Speaker 1: to me and I guess there's just a lot of

1028
01:03:54,120 --> 01:03:59,120
Speaker 1: gunfire going on. Um. A second attempt to kidnap him

1029
01:03:59,200 --> 01:04:02,200
Speaker 1: was made later that year, also unsuccessful. So twice in

1030
01:04:02,240 --> 01:04:04,480
Speaker 1: one year somebody tried to kidnap this guy, just I

1031
01:04:04,480 --> 01:04:06,600
Speaker 1: assume because he's worth a lot of money, right. I

1032
01:04:06,640 --> 01:04:08,440
Speaker 1: was about to say, it's like that double edged sword

1033
01:04:08,480 --> 01:04:10,160
Speaker 1: or you like, yeah, you have money. Oh no, no,

1034
01:04:10,280 --> 01:04:14,000
Speaker 1: I have something someone wants to see. Yeah. So Carlo

1035
01:04:14,160 --> 01:04:19,800
Speaker 1: was also charged with smuggling illegally obtained archaeological artifacts and

1036
01:04:20,000 --> 01:04:25,440
Speaker 1: prized artwork, including Picasso's in the nineteen seventies, and his

1037
01:04:25,600 --> 01:04:29,400
Speaker 1: villa and possessions were all taken away. He was a collector,

1038
01:04:29,520 --> 01:04:32,320
Speaker 1: but they were like, some of these collections ain't legit,

1039
01:04:32,760 --> 01:04:34,640
Speaker 1: so they snatched it all up. They took it away.

1040
01:04:34,680 --> 01:04:36,760
Speaker 1: He was tried in absentia because he was living in

1041
01:04:36,800 --> 01:04:39,760
Speaker 1: France at the time, and they sentenced him to four years.

1042
01:04:40,160 --> 01:04:43,600
Speaker 1: But after some rumored deals with the Italian government is

1043
01:04:43,640 --> 01:04:46,240
Speaker 1: kind of what people think happened, he ended up getting

1044
01:04:46,240 --> 01:04:48,800
Speaker 1: everything back and it was all okay, water under the bridge.

1045
01:04:49,000 --> 01:04:52,720
Speaker 1: Oh no, these this sarcophagus actually is yours. Now that

1046
01:04:52,800 --> 01:04:55,000
Speaker 1: we take a closer look, it turns out there you

1047
01:04:55,120 --> 01:04:58,640
Speaker 1: have the certificate right here. What the surprise, I didn't

1048
01:04:58,640 --> 01:05:01,400
Speaker 1: see it. It was right here under this big stack

1049
01:05:01,440 --> 01:05:05,760
Speaker 1: of money. I see what was covering it up? Is

1050
01:05:05,840 --> 01:05:12,120
Speaker 1: all this money. Italian government, known for their smooth and

1051
01:05:12,320 --> 01:05:16,720
Speaker 1: legit operation in the nineteen seventies. Sophia had actually been

1052
01:05:16,720 --> 01:05:19,680
Speaker 1: tried for complicity in this same case, but she was acquitted,

1053
01:05:19,760 --> 01:05:23,160
Speaker 1: although she got a little trouble herself. She ended up

1054
01:05:23,200 --> 01:05:26,160
Speaker 1: serving seventeen days out of a thirty days sentence in

1055
01:05:26,240 --> 01:05:31,480
Speaker 1: jail in two for some light tax evasion. It was

1056
01:05:31,600 --> 01:05:34,240
Speaker 1: some she hadn't paid on some earnings that she made

1057
01:05:34,240 --> 01:05:37,320
Speaker 1: in the early eighties, and and take kindly to that.

1058
01:05:38,280 --> 01:05:43,440
Speaker 1: It's a little little Shakira action going on there. She

1059
01:05:43,560 --> 01:05:47,720
Speaker 1: got found out in the Panama papers or something. Ultimately, though,

1060
01:05:47,800 --> 01:05:51,600
Speaker 1: Sophia and Carlo were incredibly happy together, and they remained

1061
01:05:51,680 --> 01:05:54,960
Speaker 1: faithfully married until his death in two thousand and seven

1062
01:05:55,040 --> 01:05:59,280
Speaker 1: at ninety four years old. I know, right, that's nice.

1063
01:05:59,520 --> 01:06:02,880
Speaker 1: I lived in nineties. That's pretty good. And one time,

1064
01:06:02,920 --> 01:06:06,360
Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty seven, just a year after their marriage,

1065
01:06:06,400 --> 01:06:09,440
Speaker 1: she was filming a movie with Marlon Brando when he

1066
01:06:09,520 --> 01:06:13,240
Speaker 1: walked up and tried to get handsy with her, and

1067
01:06:13,320 --> 01:06:16,720
Speaker 1: Sophia later told the story saying, quote, I turned in

1068
01:06:16,840 --> 01:06:20,960
Speaker 1: all tranquility and blew his face like a cat, stroked

1069
01:06:21,000 --> 01:06:24,000
Speaker 1: the wrong way, and said, don't you ever dare to

1070
01:06:24,080 --> 01:06:29,600
Speaker 1: do that again? Never again, she said. As I pulverized

1071
01:06:29,680 --> 01:06:34,080
Speaker 1: him with my eyes, he seemed small, defenseless. He never

1072
01:06:34,120 --> 01:06:36,920
Speaker 1: did it again, but it was difficult working with him

1073
01:06:36,960 --> 01:06:42,760
Speaker 1: after that. She was like, yeah, I made Marlon Brando

1074
01:06:42,960 --> 01:06:49,040
Speaker 1: feel small somehow and turns out to not help. He's like,

1075
01:06:49,760 --> 01:06:55,640
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry. I shouldn't have done that. I should you.

1076
01:06:56,280 --> 01:06:58,720
Speaker 1: I thought you want one day, and that day may

1077
01:06:58,880 --> 01:07:05,920
Speaker 1: never come. In the welcome deal with an apology, we

1078
01:07:06,040 --> 01:07:10,640
Speaker 1: can't pass up an opportunity. Godfather, boys, I could have

1079
01:07:10,640 --> 01:07:13,720
Speaker 1: been a contender. You were already married and I didn't.

1080
01:07:14,160 --> 01:07:17,880
Speaker 1: We didn't wait for consent. Could have been a consenter.

1081
01:07:21,360 --> 01:07:26,920
Speaker 1: I could have had Glass. So in terms of Carlo,

1082
01:07:27,120 --> 01:07:29,840
Speaker 1: like his history is a little more straightforward. You can

1083
01:07:29,880 --> 01:07:32,920
Speaker 1: just look at his IMDb page and see all of

1084
01:07:33,000 --> 01:07:37,000
Speaker 1: his contributions to cinema. I mean his his life history

1085
01:07:37,160 --> 01:07:39,520
Speaker 1: is just a history of film in a lot of ways.

1086
01:07:39,560 --> 01:07:44,560
Speaker 1: He produced Felini's Lastrada and David Lean's Doctor Hivago, huge movies.

1087
01:07:45,080 --> 01:07:48,600
Speaker 1: After his death, Italian cultural Minister Francesco to Telli said,

1088
01:07:48,720 --> 01:07:52,840
Speaker 1: quote Ponti embodied a great and courageous pushed to innovate,

1089
01:07:53,280 --> 01:07:58,680
Speaker 1: promoted unforgettable talents, and enjoyed huge success. And Sofia continued

1090
01:07:58,680 --> 01:08:01,320
Speaker 1: to expand her career into that Isn't three. She won

1091
01:08:01,360 --> 01:08:04,760
Speaker 1: a Grammy Award for Best Spoken Word Album for Children

1092
01:08:05,040 --> 01:08:08,400
Speaker 1: in her reading of Peter and the Wolf. She's also

1093
01:08:08,440 --> 01:08:11,840
Speaker 1: a skilled chef, and she has written no less than

1094
01:08:12,080 --> 01:08:16,040
Speaker 1: three cookbooks, and I want them. I did not know

1095
01:08:16,080 --> 01:08:18,120
Speaker 1: about this, but I want to make all of Sophia

1096
01:08:18,200 --> 01:08:20,679
Speaker 1: Loran's recipes. I'm sure a vegetarian version of them, because

1097
01:08:20,720 --> 01:08:25,519
Speaker 1: I bet they're loaded with beef, but I bet as

1098
01:08:25,560 --> 01:08:28,439
Speaker 1: good as hell. She said, nobody beat her mother's eggplant,

1099
01:08:28,520 --> 01:08:32,360
Speaker 1: which I bet. I bet Romilda made a hell of

1100
01:08:32,400 --> 01:08:35,760
Speaker 1: an egg plant. And I don't like eggplant, but if

1101
01:08:35,800 --> 01:08:40,040
Speaker 1: I liked it, I bet it's Romilda's. Absolutely, that would

1102
01:08:40,080 --> 01:08:43,720
Speaker 1: make me absolutely. She said that the only thing she

1103
01:08:43,800 --> 01:08:46,920
Speaker 1: ever regrets in her life is never getting her white wedding.

1104
01:08:47,600 --> 01:08:50,799
Speaker 1: Sofia said she's still dreams of wearing a white dress

1105
01:08:51,160 --> 01:08:52,880
Speaker 1: and walking down the aisle because that was just the

1106
01:08:52,920 --> 01:08:55,160
Speaker 1: one thing she never got her. Her weddings were very

1107
01:08:55,240 --> 01:08:57,799
Speaker 1: unceremonious in a lot of ways. They're very private and small,

1108
01:08:57,920 --> 01:09:00,120
Speaker 1: and it was what she needed. But she didn't get

1109
01:09:00,160 --> 01:09:03,000
Speaker 1: that that wedding day she had been dreaming of, you know.

1110
01:09:04,400 --> 01:09:06,559
Speaker 1: But she never doubted that Carlo was the right man

1111
01:09:06,640 --> 01:09:09,320
Speaker 1: for her. When asked in two thousand nine, two years

1112
01:09:09,360 --> 01:09:13,280
Speaker 1: after his death, if she would ever marry again, she said, quote, no,

1113
01:09:13,680 --> 01:09:17,160
Speaker 1: never again. It would be impossible to love anyone else.

1114
01:09:18,160 --> 01:09:21,200
Speaker 1: And Sophia loren As of this recording is alive and well,

1115
01:09:21,640 --> 01:09:24,479
Speaker 1: she's living, I believe in Switzerland. She is eighty seven

1116
01:09:24,560 --> 01:09:27,599
Speaker 1: years old. She's got an IMDb credit from last year,

1117
01:09:27,720 --> 01:09:31,719
Speaker 1: so she's doing it. She's she's out there and she's amazing.

1118
01:09:32,000 --> 01:09:36,639
Speaker 1: I'd also live in Switzerland, by the way. By the way,

1119
01:09:36,680 --> 01:09:40,439
Speaker 1: I would also live in Switzerland. So an incredible epic

1120
01:09:40,600 --> 01:09:47,160
Speaker 1: romance spanning continents and just like you know, defying religious

1121
01:09:47,160 --> 01:09:52,439
Speaker 1: authoritarianism and all of these conventions. Yeah. We we dabbled

1122
01:09:52,439 --> 01:09:55,280
Speaker 1: a little earlier in the age difference, which of course

1123
01:09:55,560 --> 01:09:58,360
Speaker 1: is something to be said, didn't didn't matter as much

1124
01:09:58,360 --> 01:10:00,760
Speaker 1: when he was ninety four and she was seventy three.

1125
01:10:01,520 --> 01:10:06,160
Speaker 1: But but there is definitely a question there about like

1126
01:10:07,520 --> 01:10:10,599
Speaker 1: you know, he was, he was a middle h dude

1127
01:10:10,640 --> 01:10:12,160
Speaker 1: more or less. I mean, he was in his late

1128
01:10:12,200 --> 01:10:15,080
Speaker 1: thirties and he met a sixteen year old and was like,

1129
01:10:15,360 --> 01:10:17,200
Speaker 1: I'm going to start teaching you all the ins and

1130
01:10:17,200 --> 01:10:20,200
Speaker 1: notes of the business. I mean you're almost thirty seven. Yeah,

1131
01:10:20,320 --> 01:10:22,280
Speaker 1: and you I mean, if you met a sixteen year

1132
01:10:22,320 --> 01:10:25,479
Speaker 1: old right now, I would I would leave because I

1133
01:10:25,479 --> 01:10:30,439
Speaker 1: don't you know, I don't understand teenagers. I certainly wouldn't

1134
01:10:30,479 --> 01:10:33,320
Speaker 1: offer to give one guidance. I'd be terrible for that, right.

1135
01:10:33,560 --> 01:10:35,599
Speaker 1: You'd be like, you should really get some guidance from

1136
01:10:35,640 --> 01:10:40,840
Speaker 1: someone else, someone who's uh both trained and authorized to

1137
01:10:40,880 --> 01:10:46,160
Speaker 1: give you a guidance. Just not me, not I but

1138
01:10:46,400 --> 01:10:50,519
Speaker 1: what can we say. They were extremely happy together, they

1139
01:10:50,680 --> 01:10:54,719
Speaker 1: fought very hard to stay together their whole lives. Yeah,

1140
01:10:54,880 --> 01:10:57,519
Speaker 1: so it comes to a point where it's very difficult

1141
01:10:57,600 --> 01:11:01,919
Speaker 1: because you want to take talk and and kind of go, well,

1142
01:11:02,560 --> 01:11:05,960
Speaker 1: what pressures were brought to bear on someone? You know?

1143
01:11:06,760 --> 01:11:10,600
Speaker 1: Were they broken down by this person and made vulnerable

1144
01:11:10,840 --> 01:11:13,160
Speaker 1: and then therefore he was able to swoop in and

1145
01:11:14,080 --> 01:11:16,160
Speaker 1: be the only safety or something, you know what I mean,

1146
01:11:16,240 --> 01:11:19,200
Speaker 1: like that kind of cornering of someone. Did he take

1147
01:11:19,240 --> 01:11:21,920
Speaker 1: advantage of the fact that she needed a father figure

1148
01:11:22,040 --> 01:11:25,200
Speaker 1: and someone to you know, to show her the way? Yeah,

1149
01:11:25,240 --> 01:11:30,000
Speaker 1: But it also is hard to invalidate someone's love. And

1150
01:11:30,240 --> 01:11:33,639
Speaker 1: some people do fall in love inconcruously all the time.

1151
01:11:34,240 --> 01:11:39,120
Speaker 1: And sometimes its age, and sometimes it's culture totally different

1152
01:11:39,120 --> 01:11:41,200
Speaker 1: cultures or religions or something, you know what I mean.

1153
01:11:41,400 --> 01:11:45,200
Speaker 1: That seem insurmountable, but you fall in love and then

1154
01:11:45,240 --> 01:11:49,120
Speaker 1: you find a way to surmount. And knowing people who

1155
01:11:49,160 --> 01:11:54,000
Speaker 1: have suffered at the hands of older especially young girls

1156
01:11:54,120 --> 01:11:58,519
Speaker 1: who dated older men and were traumatized for life by it,

1157
01:11:59,439 --> 01:12:03,160
Speaker 1: whether you know that was the man's intention or not. Uh,

1158
01:12:03,240 --> 01:12:05,479
Speaker 1: you know, I think what I take from these stories

1159
01:12:05,680 --> 01:12:11,920
Speaker 1: is you've got to be really skeptical and cautious about

1160
01:12:12,000 --> 01:12:16,200
Speaker 1: these age gaps. But also sometimes people love each other

1161
01:12:16,280 --> 01:12:19,639
Speaker 1: and they're happy, and that's all that matters. It's true,

1162
01:12:19,880 --> 01:12:22,200
Speaker 1: And I mean, he's dead, and she could be saying

1163
01:12:22,240 --> 01:12:25,120
Speaker 1: now like he's dead, I can tell ever the world

1164
01:12:25,160 --> 01:12:27,760
Speaker 1: the truth or whatever, and she's not. She's not traumatized

1165
01:12:27,760 --> 01:12:33,160
Speaker 1: for life. She still remembers him very lovingly, fondly and everything.

1166
01:12:33,200 --> 01:12:35,680
Speaker 1: So it feels it seems like it was, you know,

1167
01:12:35,800 --> 01:12:38,200
Speaker 1: pretty on the up and up. It seems like as

1168
01:12:38,280 --> 01:12:40,240
Speaker 1: much as it could be. He never threw acid in

1169
01:12:40,280 --> 01:12:43,040
Speaker 1: her face. Well you know, you know, our bar gets

1170
01:12:43,120 --> 01:12:50,599
Speaker 1: kind of low sometimes. But I hope that you all

1171
01:12:50,680 --> 01:12:52,880
Speaker 1: enjoyed this story. I hope you found it as kind

1172
01:12:52,880 --> 01:12:55,280
Speaker 1: of fascinating and beautiful as I did. I left, I

1173
01:12:55,280 --> 01:12:57,760
Speaker 1: didn't know anything about Sephia Lauren oh me either. I

1174
01:12:57,800 --> 01:13:00,200
Speaker 1: just knew, you know, Sophia Laurent. I think the first

1175
01:13:00,200 --> 01:13:03,439
Speaker 1: thing I saw in was grumpy er old men. She

1176
01:13:03,560 --> 01:13:06,479
Speaker 1: was a romantic interest in that. Lari's kind of a

1177
01:13:06,520 --> 01:13:08,280
Speaker 1: fem faytale. I think in that one, I don't remember

1178
01:13:08,320 --> 01:13:11,080
Speaker 1: it too well, but I never I didn't think about that.

1179
01:13:11,120 --> 01:13:13,720
Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, and you know, and you just know

1180
01:13:13,760 --> 01:13:15,760
Speaker 1: who she is, Like you know who Marilyn Monroe is

1181
01:13:15,840 --> 01:13:18,320
Speaker 1: or something. Right, this is a famous pretty lady. That's

1182
01:13:18,640 --> 01:13:20,519
Speaker 1: what I know about her. So it's cool to like

1183
01:13:20,680 --> 01:13:24,880
Speaker 1: learn all this crazy background about her childhood beings so

1184
01:13:25,080 --> 01:13:28,840
Speaker 1: difficult and all this stuff, Like that's really amazing. What

1185
01:13:28,960 --> 01:13:31,920
Speaker 1: an interesting lady, really interesting life. I think that's part

1186
01:13:31,920 --> 01:13:33,720
Speaker 1: of it too. You know, sometimes we're really sold on

1187
01:13:33,760 --> 01:13:36,479
Speaker 1: someone who's just like, oh, you're a pretty person who

1188
01:13:36,520 --> 01:13:38,800
Speaker 1: lives as a celebrity. Everything has been given to you

1189
01:13:38,840 --> 01:13:42,519
Speaker 1: on a silver platter. And you know the reality is

1190
01:13:42,560 --> 01:13:45,280
Speaker 1: that people have way more dimension than that, almost always,

1191
01:13:46,080 --> 01:13:47,960
Speaker 1: and you know, when you start to dig in and

1192
01:13:48,000 --> 01:13:50,840
Speaker 1: learn about them, you never know what you're gonna find,

1193
01:13:50,880 --> 01:13:54,800
Speaker 1: and you might be really fascinated and and empathize with them.

1194
01:13:54,840 --> 01:13:59,839
Speaker 1: I I've you know, look, no doubt that uh nets

1195
01:14:00,000 --> 01:14:04,920
Speaker 1: scale Sophia Urn probably had a easier life in a

1196
01:14:04,920 --> 01:14:07,800
Speaker 1: lot of ways than either of us or most of

1197
01:14:07,800 --> 01:14:10,320
Speaker 1: our listeners will ever have because she had, you know,

1198
01:14:10,880 --> 01:14:14,439
Speaker 1: access to so much. But at the same time, like

1199
01:14:14,560 --> 01:14:18,519
Speaker 1: she also suffered in ways that I can't imagine, and

1200
01:14:18,720 --> 01:14:22,280
Speaker 1: struggled and fought hard to get to where she was

1201
01:14:22,880 --> 01:14:25,240
Speaker 1: well and it's just like getting rich. You know, You're like, hey,

1202
01:14:25,320 --> 01:14:27,519
Speaker 1: I'm rich. Now I have something people want to steal.

1203
01:14:27,800 --> 01:14:30,480
Speaker 1: It's sort of like, oh, it's so great to be beautiful.

1204
01:14:30,720 --> 01:14:33,800
Speaker 1: People like pretty people and they want to help them.

1205
01:14:33,920 --> 01:14:36,800
Speaker 1: But also now I have something that can be exploited,

1206
01:14:37,160 --> 01:14:40,439
Speaker 1: that can be used against me. I mean, just and everything,

1207
01:14:41,080 --> 01:14:44,120
Speaker 1: everything has its its other side of its coin. I

1208
01:14:44,160 --> 01:14:49,639
Speaker 1: guess I feel that every day I met with that struggle.

1209
01:14:49,880 --> 01:14:55,240
Speaker 1: You know, I'm wasted on audio. I have a face

1210
01:14:55,360 --> 01:14:58,800
Speaker 1: for movies. Damn it. I want to be sixty tall

1211
01:15:00,560 --> 01:15:03,320
Speaker 1: one day. One day, we'll get you there. Yeah, did

1212
01:15:03,360 --> 01:15:07,320
Speaker 1: you see that? Similu and Barry Kyogan, however you say

1213
01:15:07,320 --> 01:15:09,640
Speaker 1: his last name? Who plays Drew Wig in the Eternals.

1214
01:15:09,680 --> 01:15:14,080
Speaker 1: Both of them, years and years ago tweeted, hey, Marvel

1215
01:15:14,160 --> 01:15:18,400
Speaker 1: put me in a movie. Wasn't as specific characters was

1216
01:15:20,479 --> 01:15:24,640
Speaker 1: specifically for sure, Yeah, but this guy just said to

1217
01:15:24,680 --> 01:15:26,120
Speaker 1: put me in a Marvelin movie. And now he's Drew

1218
01:15:26,160 --> 01:15:27,960
Speaker 1: Big in the internals. Okay, well, I guess I need

1219
01:15:27,960 --> 01:15:29,800
Speaker 1: to tweet put me in a marvel I know. Well,

1220
01:15:29,840 --> 01:15:32,000
Speaker 1: now it's like buying a collectible, you know, like once

1221
01:15:32,040 --> 01:15:35,040
Speaker 1: everyone does, and it's not worth anything anymore. Got to

1222
01:15:35,040 --> 01:15:37,120
Speaker 1: do it before anyone thinks about it. I really I

1223
01:15:37,160 --> 01:15:39,920
Speaker 1: just want the I just want the routine. I just

1224
01:15:39,960 --> 01:15:44,599
Speaker 1: want the nutritionists and the and the personal trainers right

1225
01:15:44,840 --> 01:15:47,320
Speaker 1: and everything. I want to be beaten into submission until

1226
01:15:47,320 --> 01:15:51,160
Speaker 1: I have, you know, until I look like I's gonna

1227
01:15:51,160 --> 01:15:55,320
Speaker 1: say Camille on Jiohnny, But I'll never look like Camil. Yeah,

1228
01:15:55,320 --> 01:15:58,840
Speaker 1: there's quite a few steps between you. And honestly, you

1229
01:15:58,880 --> 01:16:01,640
Speaker 1: know what this happened to me this week? Um, I

1230
01:16:01,800 --> 01:16:06,760
Speaker 1: was command know that that still never has and never

1231
01:16:06,760 --> 01:16:09,720
Speaker 1: will happen. Know what happened to me was I had

1232
01:16:09,760 --> 01:16:11,679
Speaker 1: a I had a bit of a rough patch because

1233
01:16:12,320 --> 01:16:15,760
Speaker 1: for for years since ant Man, I've been saying, you

1234
01:16:15,840 --> 01:16:19,439
Speaker 1: know what my ideal body type, it's just Paul Rudd.

1235
01:16:19,840 --> 01:16:23,120
Speaker 1: He keeps it tight, he's in shape. It's not Chris Hemsworth.

1236
01:16:23,200 --> 01:16:26,800
Speaker 1: That's absurd and takes a full time devotion and is

1237
01:16:26,880 --> 01:16:29,439
Speaker 1: unrealistic of anyone to try and achieve. But Paul Rudd

1238
01:16:29,479 --> 01:16:32,080
Speaker 1: I can do. And then he made him sexiest man alive.

1239
01:16:32,080 --> 01:16:33,880
Speaker 1: And I'm like that, you know what, you just raised

1240
01:16:33,920 --> 01:16:35,800
Speaker 1: the bar Now I can't It's just you know what

1241
01:16:35,840 --> 01:16:38,320
Speaker 1: I mean? It made it seem less attainable. Now he's like,

1242
01:16:38,360 --> 01:16:40,680
Speaker 1: whose body do you want? Oh? Just the sexiest man

1243
01:16:40,720 --> 01:16:45,759
Speaker 1: Alive's body? Great, So now I gotta Now I'm like, okay,

1244
01:16:45,800 --> 01:16:48,559
Speaker 1: maybe you know Mark Ruffalo is still a pretty good

1245
01:16:48,560 --> 01:16:52,960
Speaker 1: bar too, Gruffalo. He's in shape, but it's not it's

1246
01:16:52,960 --> 01:16:58,439
Speaker 1: not ridiculous. Yeah, just dark. Yeah, like that might be

1247
01:16:58,479 --> 01:17:00,559
Speaker 1: where I am right now. I'm not you are, maybe

1248
01:17:00,560 --> 01:17:04,400
Speaker 1: so he might have gotten shape for always be my maybe. Well, look,

1249
01:17:04,479 --> 01:17:07,160
Speaker 1: before we get too into ranking the bodies of the

1250
01:17:07,200 --> 01:17:11,360
Speaker 1: men in the Marvel Cinematic universe. Gross, where's their growth?

1251
01:17:12,000 --> 01:17:14,880
Speaker 1: We should probably get out of here. That's true. So

1252
01:17:15,040 --> 01:17:17,120
Speaker 1: thank you so much for tuning in for this episode.

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Speaker 1: I hope you loved it. Please, As always, we love

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01:17:20,000 --> 01:17:23,160
Speaker 1: to hear your thoughts, your feedback. If you ever met

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Speaker 1: Sophia Loren, please tell us us. Um that would be amazing. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: You can reach out by email to Romance at iHeart

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01:17:31,120 --> 01:17:33,559
Speaker 1: media dot com yes, or you can find us on

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01:17:33,600 --> 01:17:37,760
Speaker 1: the social media's, specifically Twitter and Instagram. I'm at oh great,

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01:17:37,760 --> 01:17:40,439
Speaker 1: it's Eli. I'm at Dianamite Boom, and you can find

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Speaker 1: the show at ridic Romance. Don't forget to rate and

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Speaker 1: review and all that good stuff. Yes, we hope to

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Speaker 1: hear from you soon, and we will see you with

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Speaker 1: another hot and sixty episode later this week. Can't wait.

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Speaker 1: Love you by so long. Friends, It's time to go.

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01:17:56,360 --> 01:18:00,040
Speaker 1: Thanks so listening to our show, Tell your friends the

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Speaker 1: neighbor's uncles, and dance to listen to a show Ridiculous

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Speaker 1: Roll Dance m