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Speaker 1: Fellow conspiracy realist. We returned to you again with a

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Speaker 1: classic episode. It is one that remains terrifyingly relevant in

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Speaker 1: the world today. Gosh, you guys remember jeff Jeffy jadag

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Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein, the financier, disgraced financier.

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Speaker 2: That's right.

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Speaker 3: What he had a plane or something made some hay.

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Speaker 1: Had an island, had a quagmire of crime, corruption and

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Speaker 1: cover upsos diamonds.

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Speaker 3: If I'm not mistaken, Thank you for bringing that up.

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Speaker 1: It still bothers me.

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Speaker 3: Well, it's just the hallmark of someone's doing up to

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Speaker 3: no good. Sketchy.

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Speaker 1: It's a sketchy thing to have, you know. We try

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Speaker 1: not to be judgmental on this show. So hot take

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Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein, We'll say it.

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Speaker 3: Kind of a pill. Not a good dude, not a

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Speaker 3: great guy.

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Speaker 1: And we were, if I recall correctly, a few years back.

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Speaker 1: It was twenty nineteen. We may have been in Florida somewhere,

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Speaker 1: I think for podcast movement or something when the news

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Speaker 1: of Jeffrey Epstein Epstein's death hit.

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Speaker 4: Thank you're right, yeah, because he died August tenth of

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Speaker 4: that year, twenty nineteen. Is this the one in the

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Speaker 4: hotel room when we were sitting around.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, exactly, So I think we had to jump

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Speaker 3: in and get right to it.

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Speaker 1: Wow, you can tell that we are fascinating with this.

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Speaker 1: We don't have all of the answers. We know that

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Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein of course passed away in prison, but how

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Speaker 1: on August tenth he was found dead twenty nineteen, in

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Speaker 1: what the media and the authorities described as a apparent suicide.

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Speaker 3: Unless you think this episode might be dated, I would

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Speaker 3: posit that it's actually very interesting to listen to our

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Speaker 3: past selves, kind of trying to make sense of the

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Speaker 3: little information that was out there and see how it

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Speaker 3: stacks up to what we know today. I would maybe

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Speaker 3: argue even that we don't know a hell of a

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Speaker 3: lot more.

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Speaker 4: Well, this is before the meme thing, before the Oh yeah,

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Speaker 4: and Jeffrey Epstein killed himself.

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Speaker 2: That's true.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we had eyes on it. The story does continue,

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Speaker 1: But for anybody who's looking hoping for a factual investigation,

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Speaker 1: this is the episode for you. So let's roll it.

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Speaker 5: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 5: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 5: learn the stuff they Don't want you to know a

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Speaker 5: production of iHeart Radios, How Stuff Works.

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Speaker 4: Welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my

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Speaker 4: name is Noel.

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Speaker 1: They call me Ben. We are joined in spirit with

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Speaker 1: our super producer, Paul Mission controlled decand A. Most importantly,

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Speaker 1: you are You are here, and that makes this stuff

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Speaker 1: they don't want you to know going to be completely transparent,

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Speaker 1: because transparency is important to us on this show and

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Speaker 1: hopefully important to those of us listening along. We are

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Speaker 1: not in the studio today.

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Speaker 4: No, We're in a hotel in Orlando.

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Speaker 3: Is it a motel or a hotel or a holiday

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Speaker 3: and it's a little RESORTI actually there's a lazy river

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Speaker 3: outside a pretty dope water slide situation that we have

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Speaker 3: not had a chance to enjoy yet, but maybe after this.

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Speaker 1: I heard good things about the water slide. It's true

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Speaker 1: a series of circumstances have found us here in Orlando,

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Speaker 1: but we also found ourselves compelled to update a very

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Speaker 1: important topic that you have doubtlessly read about in the

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Speaker 1: news recently, and you have known about since at least January.

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Speaker 1: If you are a longtime listener of our show, perhaps

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Speaker 1: we can sum it up Thus, Lee I don't know

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Speaker 1: you want to do some foreshadowing from the New York Times.

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Speaker 4: Yes, so, yesterday, as we're recording this, New York Times

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Speaker 4: opinion columnist Ross Do thought, I think that's how you

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Speaker 4: say it. He wrote a piece called Jeffrey Epstein and

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Speaker 4: When to Take Conspiracies Seriously interesting. Yeah, and we highly

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Speaker 4: recommend that you read this just first of all. But

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Speaker 4: here is just a little bit of a taste.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, a couple of pretty quotable quotes here. This is

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Speaker 3: just so so validating for us as a show.

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Speaker 2: I love this.

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Speaker 3: The challenge in thinking about a case like the suspicious

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Speaker 3: suicide of Jeffrey Epstein, the supposed billionaire who spent his

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Speaker 3: life acquiring sex slaves and serving as a procureur to

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Speaker 3: the ruling class, can be summed up in two sentences.

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Speaker 3: Most conspiracy theories are false, but often some of the

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Speaker 3: things they're trying to explain are real.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's pretty intense, and that's all you really need

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Speaker 4: to know. That's just how he gets into the article.

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Speaker 4: But he goes on to explain essentially what we do

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Speaker 4: on this show exactly.

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Speaker 3: Those last two sentences could kind of be a thesis

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Speaker 3: statement or a mission statement for this show, So many

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Speaker 3: of the things we talk about are a mix of

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Speaker 3: provable things and completely things that you would wildly conjecture

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Speaker 3: on whether they're real or faults or trumped up to

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Speaker 3: explain things by kind of using reverse logic to impose

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Speaker 3: a narrative on things that we maybe don't fully understand,

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Speaker 3: whether it's the inner workings of the government or UFOs

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Speaker 3: or anything like that, the you know, behind the scenes

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Speaker 3: dirty dealings of the rich and powerful. But with this

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Speaker 3: Epstein case, to your point, Ben, we covered about a

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Speaker 3: year ago. Everything we covered in that episode pretty much

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Speaker 3: just proved to be true.

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Speaker 1: And so this is an update on our earlier episode

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Speaker 1: about the disgraced financier and proven child abuser Jeffrey Epstein.

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Speaker 1: Given the graphic and troubling nature of this story, this

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Speaker 1: episode may not be appropriate for all audiences. Things get

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Speaker 1: pretty dark. They get dark pretty quickly. Without replaying the

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Speaker 1: entire episode in which we explore Epstein's biography and the

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Speaker 1: high level outline of his crimes and hism, we can

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Speaker 1: simply say that he was often advertising himself as an

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Speaker 1: enigmatic hedge fund manager. The problem was that his clients, however,

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Speaker 1: many existed were secret. And the weird thing is hedge

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Speaker 1: fund managers leave a large traceable footprint if they are

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Speaker 1: actually hedge fund manager.

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Speaker 3: And yet the source of much of his wealth remains

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Speaker 3: kind of a mystery.

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Speaker 1: Even the amount of his wealth remains because in the

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Speaker 1: quote that you just read, right, billionaire is in air

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Speaker 1: quotes right. So let's go ahead, and if you haven't

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Speaker 1: listened to that first episode, pause this and check it

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Speaker 1: out because this is valuable information. We'll hang on, We'll

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Speaker 1: be right here. Great, Okay, so we're all caught up.

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Speaker 1: Here are the facts. On January fourth of this year,

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Speaker 1: when we released this episode How Jeffrey Epstein Broke the

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Speaker 1: Law and Got Away, we explored the rise and fall

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Speaker 1: of this mysterious money man, Jeffrey Epstein. He was famous

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Speaker 1: in financial circles for his secret list of clients, a

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Speaker 1: few of whom were publicly identified, the founder of Victoria's

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Speaker 1: Secret being one. He was also famous in his social

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Speaker 1: circle for being a massage fanatic, constantly surrounded by women

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Speaker 1: and children. You'll hear this referred to in the media

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Speaker 1: as underage girls, right or young women. To be very

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Speaker 1: very clear, the gamut or age range we're talking about

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Speaker 1: here does include like children who are fourteen. This guy

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Speaker 1: was a serial offender and showed no signs of letting

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Speaker 1: up on his behavior. In fact, it's due largely to

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Speaker 1: the efforts of a journalist named Julie Brown and her

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Speaker 1: team at the Miami Herald that the national public was

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Speaker 1: even aware of this in the mainstream. Epstein's story made

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Speaker 1: national headlines in twenty eighteen. The Herald identified eighty victims

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Speaker 1: and located around sixty. The spooky thing is that they

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Speaker 1: all had the same story. When they were either teenagers

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Speaker 1: or children, Epstein and his crew had recruited them to

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Speaker 1: participate in sexual activity, including forcing them to have sex

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Speaker 1: with other people at his command.

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Speaker 4: A lot of times very old men.

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Speaker 1: Sure Dershowitz, one Alan Dershowitz.

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Speaker 3: I mean, that's what makes this extra disturbing is the

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Speaker 3: fact that he was grooming these people to essentially the

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Speaker 3: term that was using that op ed was become sex slaves.

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Speaker 3: And we've heard some things come out in the news

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Speaker 3: too recently about how he intended to recede the human

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Speaker 3: race by impregnating as many women as possible, like with

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Speaker 3: his in his image kind of you know, just a

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Speaker 3: complete psychopath and megalomaniac and just absolute degenerate.

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Speaker 1: And would never go to jail ordinarily. Right.

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Speaker 4: Well, that's why we were that's why we made that episode, right,

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Speaker 4: because we realized that he had gotten away with it.

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Speaker 4: We put it in the title, you know, thankfully as

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Speaker 4: we're going to continue on here he didn't get away

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Speaker 4: with it, or at least he was going to be

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Speaker 4: held account.

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Speaker 1: Uh, you know, that's very optimistic.

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Speaker 4: I think it seemed as though it was actually happening

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Speaker 4: this year.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, agreed. So what we're talking about here is legal

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Speaker 1: troubles kick into high gear in the early two thousand,

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Speaker 1: way before The Herald begins writing about it. In July

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Speaker 1: of two thousand and six, the FBI began investigating Epstein

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Speaker 1: and something called Operation Leap Yeer. Operation Leapyear resulted in

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Speaker 1: an indictment in June of two thousand and seven. It

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Speaker 1: was like fifty three pages long, never made it to

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Speaker 1: a grand jury. And that's when a guy named Alexander

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Speaker 1: Acosta comes into.

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Speaker 3: Play, easily, one of the other main villains in this story.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, he was at the time the US Attorney

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Speaker 1: for the Southern District of Florida, and he agreed to

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Speaker 1: a very unusual plea deal with Epstein. The deal was

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Speaker 1: that they would grant him immunity from all federal criminal

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Speaker 1: charges for his crimes. They would also grant immunity for

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Speaker 1: four co conspirators that were named, and additionally anybody else,

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Speaker 1: anybody else, they'd be considered a co conspirator. A potential

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Speaker 1: conspirators would also go unnamed and receive immunity.

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Speaker 3: If that's not just giving a straight up pass, I don't.

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Speaker 2: Know what is.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's it's.

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Speaker 3: Imhorrant, and I think he was. There was a time

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Speaker 3: even during the proceedings where he was allowed to go

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Speaker 3: to work right.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, twelve hours he could be gone.

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Speaker 1: Right and his prison door after his sentence, his prison

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Speaker 1: door wasn't locked. He was able to use his own driver.

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Speaker 1: He formed a foundation shortly before he was in this

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Speaker 1: work release program and dissolved it right after. So he

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Speaker 1: would go to the office for his foundation, yeah, every day. Also,

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Speaker 1: the tricky thing about this is that the victims were

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Speaker 1: not notified of this plea deal, of course, so they

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Speaker 1: had no say in it. According to the Miami Herald,

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Speaker 1: when this non prosecution agreement occurs, it shuts down the

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Speaker 1: FBI probe into whether there were more victims, whether there

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Speaker 1: were more conspiratory.

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Speaker 3: The name alone is laughable. A non prosecution agreement basically

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Speaker 3: means you're fine, we're you're you're free. We're gonna leave

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Speaker 3: you alone.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: For a terrible, terrible comparison, imagine if you are part

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Speaker 1: of a club where you recreationally go out and hop

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Speaker 1: in a car and try to run over children, and

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Speaker 1: then when you get caught, they say, Okay, well, you

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Speaker 1: know sometimes people drive on the sidewalk, and we're not

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Speaker 1: gonna We're not gonna identify you, We're not gonna identify

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Speaker 1: your buddies who are in the car. Yeah, we'll just

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Speaker 1: let him keep driving.

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Speaker 3: And we're not even going to reach out to the

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Speaker 3: parents of the children that you ran over.

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Speaker 1: Exactly exactly. But there's a wrinkle here already, because when

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Speaker 1: after after Acosta agrees to this, he becomes a higher

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Speaker 1: up in the current presidential administration, and later when he

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Speaker 1: is faced with this huge WTF moment, right, he says

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Speaker 1: that he was more or less forced to offer a

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Speaker 1: lenient please deal, which is a very diplomatic way to

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Speaker 1: put that. He was told by someone that Epstein quote

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Speaker 1: belonged to intelligence was quote above his pay grade and

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Speaker 1: that he should leave it alone.

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Speaker 3: WHOA, but Acosta took a die for this eventually, didn't

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Speaker 3: he like he got he got some come up and

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Speaker 3: for his part in all of this.

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Speaker 1: That's right, that's right, Nold, Because he was the Labor

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Speaker 1: secretary under the Trump administration, and in July he announced

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Speaker 1: that his resignation that he was going to walk away

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Speaker 1: from it. I don't know if that's the sort of

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Speaker 1: thing you can walk away from. But here's the rest

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Speaker 1: of the way this works out, speaking that work release stuff.

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Speaker 1: On June thirty, two thousand and eight, he pled guilty

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Speaker 1: to a state charge. One of two of the way

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Speaker 1: they phrased it is procuring for prostitution a girl below

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Speaker 1: age eighteen, for which he sentenced eighteen months in prison.

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Speaker 1: Most sex offenders in Florida are sent to state prison.

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Speaker 1: Epstein instead was housed in a private wing of the

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Speaker 1: Palm Beach County Stockade, and after three and a half months,

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Speaker 1: he was allowed to leave the jail on work release

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Speaker 1: for twelve hours day, six days a week. Also, just

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Speaker 1: think about how they phrase that sentencing. They're calling these

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Speaker 1: victims sex workers, you know what I mean? They're assigning

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Speaker 1: agency to children.

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Speaker 4: It makes me really sad.

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Speaker 3: No, the whole thing is I mean, I think this

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Speaker 3: is one of the I thought when we did that episode,

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Speaker 3: it was one of the most disturbing things we had discussed,

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Speaker 3: because on the one hand, you don't want to you

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Speaker 3: can look at a guy like Epstein who represents this

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Speaker 3: unattainable level of opulence and privilege, right, and you can

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Speaker 3: view it through the lens of man. What if every rich,

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Speaker 3: powerful man is a secret sex predator?

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Speaker 2: You know what I mean?

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Speaker 4: Well, it makes you It made me think of the

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Speaker 4: next guy.

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Speaker 3: No, yeah, for sure. I mean it's just like, you know,

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Speaker 3: given complete agency to do what thou wilt'st are these

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Speaker 3: men going to exercise their every you know, debauched kind

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Speaker 3: of impulse? Right?

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Speaker 1: Is it going to be a real like Marquis de

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Speaker 1: Saude kind of story where people just push a limit

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Speaker 1: to see whether it exists?

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Speaker 3: I think I'm The point I'm getting at, though, is no,

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Speaker 3: it's that's not the case. Likely true. It's easy to

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Speaker 3: look at a monster like this and what he represents

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Speaker 3: and apply that across the board to like all rich

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Speaker 3: and powerful men, especially in the me two times that

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Speaker 3: we're living in where so many of these folks are

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Speaker 3: finally having to answer for what they've done. But no,

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Speaker 3: I think there are rich and powerful men that are not,

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Speaker 3: you know, child sex predators.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sure there are quite a few people who are.

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Speaker 1: Like their idea of something you know, wrong and taboo

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Speaker 1: is like sneaking a milkshake when it's not cheat day

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Speaker 1: on their diet, right, and their personal trainer is going

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Speaker 1: to be really mad. But people are just people, right,

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Speaker 1: no matter how deified or vilified they are. This guy

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Speaker 1: is a monster, and he had the means to pursue

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Speaker 1: his goals. He also paid the Sheriff's office one hundred

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Speaker 1: and twenty eight grand from a nonprofit to pay for

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Speaker 1: the cost of his prison circumstances or his stockade circumstances.

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Speaker 3: Like extra amenities and things or what.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he had access to attorney room where there was

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Speaker 1: a TV installed for him. You know, they dedicated that

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Speaker 1: wing of the county stockade to him. His office was monitored,

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Speaker 1: The office of the foundation he set up in Dissults

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Speaker 1: was monitored by what we're called permit deputies, and he

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Speaker 1: directly paid for their overtime. These guys were required to

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Speaker 1: wear suits, not uniforms, and they checked in welcomed guests

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Speaker 1: at the front desk. For a time. He is essentially

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Speaker 1: a free man until there's renewed scrutiny into the case

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Speaker 1: and he's ultimately arrested in New Jersey on sex trafficking

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Speaker 1: charges on July sixth, twenty nineteen. Was justice around the corner, right.

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Speaker 3: So leading up to that, I mean, this whole bougie

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Speaker 3: jail situation, I think he said, been lasted around eighteen

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Speaker 3: months and then it was just back to business as usual,

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Speaker 3: you know, making piles of cash and presumably even bringing

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Speaker 3: in more victims you know, into this sex ring quite possibly.

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Speaker 1: And again it goes down to the means, if somebody

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Speaker 1: does not have this social or financial clout, then they're

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Speaker 1: not going to, you know, have a private island, They're

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Speaker 1: not going to have a Lolita Express. They're certainly not

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Speaker 1: going to get a non prosecution agreement. This guy seems

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Speaker 1: set to get away until that, until he is re

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Speaker 1: arrested on July sixth, and he is he is a

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Speaker 1: high value target for at least factions of the government, uh,

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Speaker 1: the ones who are against child abuse. I did I

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Speaker 1: was I thought that was a united front, but that

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Speaker 1: appears to not entirely be the case.

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Speaker 4: That's a that's one way to phrase it. Ben Right,

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Speaker 4: this herd who are are not against it?

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Speaker 3: What specifically led to the quote unquote renewed interests because

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Speaker 3: what I was so surprised about was that everything we

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Speaker 3: talked about in that first episode, it was all the

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Speaker 3: same stuff that came back around. Right, There wasn't anything new,

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Speaker 3: like what that I'm aware of. Maybe correct me if

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Speaker 3: I'm wrong, but like, what was it that that, you

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Speaker 3: know that kind of poked the bear and got things

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Speaker 3: started again?

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Speaker 1: Julie Brown and the Miami Herald in twenty eighteen. That's

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Speaker 1: exactly what it was. And what's what's strange is that

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Speaker 1: when we were talking about this, it may have been

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Speaker 1: just the three of us off air. We based on

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Speaker 1: Jimmy's we were all pretty certain that this guy would

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Speaker 1: never make it to trial. Yeah, you know, there's too

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Speaker 1: much dirt, there's too much murkiness, And in fact, there

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Speaker 1: was what appeared to be a possible suicide attempt perpetrated

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Speaker 1: on July twenty third of this year.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he was found unconscious, I believe, on the floor

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Speaker 3: of his cell with bruising around his neck.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and there were questions about whether or not it

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Speaker 4: was a self inflicted injury on his neck, or if

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Speaker 4: maybe his cellmate had done it. Lots and lots of questions.

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Speaker 4: But it put him on suicide watch, and it made him,

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Speaker 4: i mean kind of obviously somebody who's done all of

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Speaker 4: these things and then made the connections within the high

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Speaker 4: levels of society that you would want to watch this

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Speaker 4: guy closely. So that occurred on July twenty third. That's

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Speaker 4: I mean July sixth to July twenty third. That's not

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Speaker 4: a lot of time from that amount time he was arrested,

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Speaker 4: put into jail, then attempted suicide at least allegedly. Then

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Speaker 4: this weekend, at six thirty am on August tenth, twenty nineteen,

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Speaker 4: Jeffrey Epstein was found dead in his cell at the

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Speaker 4: Metropolitan Correctional Center it's also known as the MCC, the

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Speaker 4: one that's in New York City. That's a very if

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Speaker 4: we're talking about this facility. It is locked down to

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Speaker 4: the extreme and he was found dead there, apparently from suicide.

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Speaker 1: So what happened we'll explore this after a word from

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Speaker 1: our sponsors. Here's where it gets crazy. Strap in friends

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Speaker 1: and neighbors, fellow conspiracy realists, we are heading down a

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Speaker 1: deep rabbit hole. It should be no surprise that many people,

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Speaker 1: including the FBI and the Department of Justice, are calling

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Speaker 1: for investigations into Epstein's demise. At this point, an autopsy

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Speaker 1: has been conducted, more than one actually, but not yet

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Speaker 1: released to the public. There are a lot of facts

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Speaker 1: that are going to come to light in the coming days,

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Speaker 1: and this therefore will be an imperfect update. So we

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Speaker 1: are attempting to We're attempting to gather what we know

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Speaker 1: now with the understanding that there will most definitely be

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Speaker 1: new things unfolding. There isn't just one conspiracy theory in

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Speaker 1: play here. There are many. For example, you know, if

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Speaker 1: we look at the broad categories of it, there is

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Speaker 1: number one the idea that Jeffrey Epstein did not take

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Speaker 1: his own life. Even mainstream print publications and mass media

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Speaker 1: news networks are referring to it as an apparent suicide.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and there's something to be said here. If we

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Speaker 4: think back to that New York Times article to up

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Speaker 4: ed at the beginning, it is not inconceivable that somebody

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Speaker 4: that he was connected to would want him dead rather

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Speaker 4: than be able to speak, especially in a trial, especially

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Speaker 4: when there's discovery that's going to occur, right for evidence

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Speaker 4: discovery basically, and depending on what they find in his

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Speaker 4: home and all of these things, you can imagine that

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Speaker 4: somebody he worked with, and when I say worked with,

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Speaker 4: I mean procured a children for or maybe just young

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Speaker 4: women for.

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Speaker 1: So not in a hedge fund managing capacity exactly.

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Speaker 3: Let's talk a little bit about some of those documents

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Speaker 3: that were unsealed right before he supposedly took his own life,

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Speaker 3: further implicating many more high level potential sex offenders that

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Speaker 3: he may have helped connect with underage women.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, allegations right from Virginia. Robert's last name gi U

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Speaker 1: F fre You've free. We do have to say that

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Speaker 1: at this point these are these are allegations, but they

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Speaker 1: do exist in a legal sense. The documents differ from

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Speaker 1: some earlier uh some earlier information because they named some

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Speaker 1: new people. They named New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson, former

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Speaker 1: US Senator George Mitchell, they name members of the royal family,

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Speaker 1: Prince Andrew.

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Speaker 3: And it certainly feeds into this narrative that there was

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Speaker 3: some foul play at work here because I believe you know,

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Speaker 3: he said he was taken off suicide watch. Yeah, but

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Speaker 3: he did have guards who are supposed to look check

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Speaker 3: in on him. And new reports show that these guards

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Speaker 3: actually falsified reports that they checked in on him when

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Speaker 3: they in fact did not for the entire day. Uh

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Speaker 3: and he was dead for several hours before he was found.

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Speaker 3: You know, that's pretty fishy. But we don't even have

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Speaker 3: to get into the speculative territory. There's enough real juicy

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Speaker 3: information here on its own. Back to the idea of

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Speaker 3: folks who flew on that plane, the Lolita Express, we

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Speaker 3: know from flight documents that both Bill Clinton and Donald

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Speaker 3: Trump flew on that plane, in addition to the philosopher

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Speaker 3: Stephen Pinker. Just some very odd associates of this man.

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Speaker 1: And then, you know, we have to also think about

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Speaker 1: the level of access very wealthy or powerful people will have.

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Speaker 1: Because someone met that guy at a party doesn't mean

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Speaker 1: they were part of his circle, you know what I mean,

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Speaker 1: part of his crimes. They may have just donated to

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Speaker 1: the same nonprofit or something like that. However, we do

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Speaker 1: see the rise of a lot of very disturbing and

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Speaker 1: valid questions such as his cellmate, which was transferred out

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Speaker 1: of the cell the like the day of the death

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Speaker 1: or very shortly beforehand. And we also see, you know,

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Speaker 1: the suicide Watch is a big question for everybody. Suicide

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Speaker 1: Watch is supposed to require twenty four to seven monitoring,

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Speaker 1: also active physical check ins, psychicals, things like that, and

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Speaker 1: those were not happening at the time of his death.

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Speaker 4: And there are questions about even if his own attorneys

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Speaker 4: had asked to take him off of suicide Watch and

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Speaker 4: stop all the surveillance from happening on him.

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Speaker 1: So let's go back to the idea that he did

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Speaker 1: not take his own life but was murdered. The idea

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Speaker 1: that there was homicide somebody wanted to prevent news coming out,

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Speaker 1: somebody with the means to exert this sort of influence.

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Speaker 1: And it's interesting because in right wing circles, right wing

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Speaker 1: US political circles, the theory that we'll see thrown around

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Speaker 1: the most is that the Clinton family had Epstein murdered.

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Speaker 1: The idea goes back to the belief that you know,

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Speaker 1: you've seen the hashtag Clinton body count or something. The

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Speaker 1: idea goes back to the concept that the Clinton family

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Speaker 1: has murdered multiple people you'll hear seth Rich shout it

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Speaker 1: out on that. Maybe shout it out stuff the right word,

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Speaker 1: But that's just one of many culprits. You know, they'll

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Speaker 1: say Massad did it, the Oka Royals did it.

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Speaker 3: And the Clinton body count thing. I mean, we did

439
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:26,720
Speaker 3: an episode on that when we did you know, during

440
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:29,639
Speaker 3: the election, we did Clinton conspiracies and Trump conspiracies, and

441
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 3: that stuff's pretty baseless. I mean, we couldn't find much

442
00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:38,879
Speaker 3: evidence to sink your teeth into that that actually took place,

443
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:40,639
Speaker 3: that the Clinton's actually had people killed.

444
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:44,159
Speaker 4: I agree, yes, there's no solid evidence. Obviously they wouldn't

445
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:47,040
Speaker 4: be walking around if there was any solid evidence that

446
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:52,440
Speaker 4: the Clintons had been murdering anyone together or separately. There

447
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:58,280
Speaker 4: there are a lot of somewhat peculiar instances of people

448
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:03,600
Speaker 4: either going missing or dyings, which is why some of

449
00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 4: this continues to proliferate this idea. And we even have

450
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 4: Donald Trump tweeting about the Clinton body count in reference

451
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:13,680
Speaker 4: to that's Jeffrey Epstein.

452
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:18,040
Speaker 1: He also has another quote pertaining to Epstein from before

453
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:22,720
Speaker 1: this went down, where he's essentially saying, yeah, Jeffrey is

454
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 1: a good friend of mine, and he likes them young

455
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:26,760
Speaker 1: wink wink, nudge, nudge, And.

456
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:30,680
Speaker 3: It's so crazy to me that Trump would perpetuate I

457
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 3: don't know, maybe it's like a smoke screen since he's

458
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:36,159
Speaker 3: potentially implicated too, because both of them weren't you know,

459
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:39,720
Speaker 3: were on the plane. But yeah, we retweeted this post

460
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:43,280
Speaker 3: from this guy, Terrence K. Williams, who is confirmed on Twitter.

461
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:45,680
Speaker 3: I think he's like kind of a conspiracy theorist type dude.

462
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:48,720
Speaker 3: But it says died of suicide on twenty four to

463
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 3: seven suicide watch. Yeah, right, how does that happen? Hashtag

464
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:55,720
Speaker 3: Jeffrey Epstein had information on Bill Clinton and now he's dead.

465
00:27:56,160 --> 00:28:00,600
Speaker 3: I see hashtag Trump body count trending. But we know

466
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:04,680
Speaker 3: who did this RT. If you're not surprised, I'm sorry,

467
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:07,159
Speaker 3: say what you will about Trump. Again, we're trying to

468
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:09,800
Speaker 3: get too political on the show. But what an irresponsible

469
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:10,639
Speaker 3: thing to do.

470
00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:16,159
Speaker 4: Well, he's he's also connected to this story, right, Well,

471
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 4: how odd is.

472
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:19,520
Speaker 1: That he did kick Epstein out of Maura Lago at

473
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:20,040
Speaker 1: some point?

474
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:20,920
Speaker 4: It's true?

475
00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:25,240
Speaker 1: Also, yeah, it's I think there's a very valid argument

476
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:28,000
Speaker 1: to be made that maybe one should also be concerned

477
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:33,040
Speaker 1: about the cost the possible co conspirators and their activities

478
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:36,919
Speaker 1: or the victims. There are many of them. Oh yeah,

479
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 1: and it's it's strange because this is only the beginning.

480
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:45,240
Speaker 1: There's also this idea that's not quite homicide, that Epstein

481
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 1: was allowed to take his own life, right, that someone

482
00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:53,000
Speaker 1: may maybe using attorney client privilege, someone got a message

483
00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:56,120
Speaker 1: to him and said something about his family, something like that,

484
00:28:56,720 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 1: and then the guards are paid to look away or

485
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 1: or you know, a break happens at a certain time

486
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:08,240
Speaker 1: at the same time watches in. Yeah, the cellmates, the

487
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:13,520
Speaker 1: cellmates skdaddled, and then you know, maybe just the implements

488
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 1: required or the time required just happens and he's expecting it.

489
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 1: But this is this is something I wanted to ask

490
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:24,160
Speaker 1: you guys about. This is weird. If it is true

491
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 1: that instead of a hedge fund manager, this man was

492
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 1: essentially a concierge of child abuse and procuring children for

493
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:39,200
Speaker 1: these older mental abuse. If that's true, would he not

494
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 1: have some sort of dead hand or kill switch system

495
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 1: that seems to be like the only insurance that would work.

496
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 3: This is the idea of some sort of dossier that

497
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:52,600
Speaker 3: would be deployed to the authorities in the event of

498
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:55,040
Speaker 3: his untimely death exactly.

499
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 4: I think we talked about this last time. He essentially

500
00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:03,800
Speaker 4: would have the most potent and perfect blackmail like ready

501
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:05,720
Speaker 4: for all of these powerful people.

502
00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 3: Because part of the reason that he was able to

503
00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:10,200
Speaker 3: wiggle out of, you know, the clutches of the law

504
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:13,600
Speaker 3: in the first place, was because of like his brutally

505
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 3: aggressive legal team, you know, I mean, he did not

506
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:20,560
Speaker 3: pull any punches. He was protecting himself to the hilt.

507
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:23,440
Speaker 3: So yeah, it's a little odd that that, But who knows,

508
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:25,800
Speaker 3: Maybe it has been deployed and we just haven't heard

509
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:29,680
Speaker 3: about it yet. But I guess the point being what

510
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 3: you're saying, I think is that it wouldn't make sense

511
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:35,880
Speaker 3: for them to bump him off if if he had

512
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 3: something like.

513
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:39,080
Speaker 4: That, unless it was taken care of, unless they needed

514
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:42,800
Speaker 4: the time between getting him getting arrested and the authorities

515
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:46,400
Speaker 4: going through all this stuff, maybe they discovered what they

516
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:47,080
Speaker 4: were looking for.

517
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:50,560
Speaker 1: He also had lead time in almost every well in

518
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:53,960
Speaker 1: several cases where his property was searched. Sure, that's why

519
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:57,840
Speaker 1: Palm Beach they didn't find hard drives, they didn't find

520
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:00,520
Speaker 1: you know, CDs with video footage.

521
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:03,000
Speaker 3: Did they find? Though, Ben, they're a fan of this,

522
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 3: A fan of this, A fan. It's a very weird

523
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:08,480
Speaker 3: flex The things they found.

524
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:11,440
Speaker 1: Oh yes, yes, okay. So in Palm Beach they found

525
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:15,440
Speaker 1: all the wires in which one would you know which

526
00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 1: that you'd use to hook up recording apparatus and video.

527
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:23,680
Speaker 1: And then in Manhattan in a safe they found a

528
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:28,080
Speaker 1: they found a fake passport. Now, passport fraud works differently.

529
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 1: Apparently if you are a millionaire or possibly a billionaire,

530
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 1: we would go to jail for that.

531
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:35,440
Speaker 3: He was able to kind of explain it away though,

532
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 3: to the authorities. Right.

533
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:40,600
Speaker 1: His lawyer argued that this passport came from a friend

534
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:46,200
Speaker 1: due to concerns for Epstein's physical safety where he was

535
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:49,440
Speaker 1: when he was traveling in places where there was, you know,

536
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:53,760
Speaker 1: a lot of anti Semitism. So he had an Austrian passport,

537
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:58,440
Speaker 1: his picture, a different name, and it listed his residency

538
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:02,160
Speaker 1: as Saudi Arabia. We would be under the jail. He

539
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:05,400
Speaker 1: also had he also had several thousand in cash, I

540
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:07,720
Speaker 1: can't remember, forty grand or something like that. Yeah, and

541
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:10,560
Speaker 1: then he's a kicker. He had a bag of forty

542
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 1: eight loose diamonds, loose diamonds, loose diamonds, which is conflict

543
00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:16,200
Speaker 1: territory currents.

544
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:20,440
Speaker 3: Absolutely, And we also haven't talked about the drone footage

545
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:27,200
Speaker 3: of his island. Yeah, private island in the Virgin Islands. Yeah,

546
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:30,480
Speaker 3: because he's an island owning territory. He is at bond

547
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:31,760
Speaker 3: villain level wealth.

548
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:35,080
Speaker 1: Yeah. And there's a temple on the island, or what

549
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:36,240
Speaker 1: appears to be a temple.

550
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:37,840
Speaker 3: Let's go ahead and call it a sex temple.

551
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:39,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, that's what it feels like.

552
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:44,920
Speaker 1: It's very, very strange. That island is probably cleaned out, sanitized,

553
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:48,280
Speaker 1: or under investigation by the authorities now, but I believe

554
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:51,000
Speaker 1: that law enforcement. You can see on the drone footage

555
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:52,959
Speaker 1: they've started blacking out windows and stuff.

556
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:53,479
Speaker 2: Yeah.

557
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:55,400
Speaker 3: I can't remember if we talked about this last time

558
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:58,600
Speaker 3: or not, but I just find this fascinating and very strange.

559
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:02,600
Speaker 3: On that island, there are photographs of an event. He

560
00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 3: was a big fan of hanging out with scientists and physicists.

561
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 3: One of his closest aides referred to him as having

562
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:12,720
Speaker 3: the mind of a physicist, and there was he would

563
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:17,120
Speaker 3: do these scientific conferences on that very island where a

564
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:20,680
Speaker 3: lot of this these alleged you know, abuses were said

565
00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:24,320
Speaker 3: to have taken place, and it included people like Stephen Hawking,

566
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:32,080
Speaker 3: Nobel Laureates, you know, David Gross, Frank Vilcek, physicists Jim Peebles,

567
00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:36,520
Speaker 3: Alan Gooth, Kip Thorne, Lisa Randall. Again, he's obviously giving

568
00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:40,560
Speaker 3: money to their causes. It makes sense for them to schmooze.

569
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:44,400
Speaker 3: This was before yeah, that the original allegations came out,

570
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:46,560
Speaker 3: So not throwing any of them into the bus. But

571
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:50,200
Speaker 3: one of these scientists who absolutely is standing accused of

572
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:55,000
Speaker 3: having forced sex with an underage girl is MIT professor

573
00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:58,600
Speaker 3: Marvin Minsky, who is a close friend of Epstein and

574
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 3: it was a very important figure in the development of

575
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:03,120
Speaker 3: artificial intelligence.

576
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 1: Right. Minsky died in twenty sixteen. He was known associate

577
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:11,719
Speaker 1: of Epstein, and in that twenty sixteen deposition, which is

578
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:15,919
Speaker 1: where the recent unsealed documents come from, she names him

579
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:19,680
Speaker 1: as one of the many prominent scientists with ties to him,

580
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:27,840
Speaker 1: as she also names Dershowitz and Alan. Dershowitz has the strangest,

581
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:34,120
Speaker 1: most bizarre sort of denials or justifications. He's saying things like, oh, yeah,

582
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:36,200
Speaker 1: I got a massage, but don't worry, it was from

583
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:40,480
Speaker 1: an old, unattractive person. You know what I mean, And

584
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:44,000
Speaker 1: there were a lot of kids around, but nothing weird happened.

585
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:48,520
Speaker 1: It's difficult to parse this, but just for a snapshot

586
00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:53,680
Speaker 1: of how much speculation is proliferating right now, do you

587
00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:57,200
Speaker 1: want to mention a third category of theory that I

588
00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:02,040
Speaker 1: ran into, which is that Jeffrey Epstein's somehow committed pseudo

589
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:05,839
Speaker 1: side the fancy word for faking one's own death and

590
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:09,480
Speaker 1: escaped by a long shot. This is the least plausible idea,

591
00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:14,640
Speaker 1: but this is just the beginning. Will pause for a

592
00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:18,600
Speaker 1: word from our sponsor and then maybe dig into more

593
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:23,920
Speaker 1: of the speculation, the footage, the groups involved, the timeline

594
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:35,000
Speaker 1: of the death. We have returned. The reality of the

595
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:38,279
Speaker 1: situation as it stands now means that we are not

596
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:42,120
Speaker 1: working with all of the information and it will continue

597
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:45,160
Speaker 1: to come out. But there are things that we have

598
00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:50,319
Speaker 1: to hit upon here. You know, one very creepy, disturbing

599
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:55,839
Speaker 1: quote was that acoustic quote from earlier that somebody belongs

600
00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:56,919
Speaker 1: to intelligence.

601
00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:58,800
Speaker 3: What does that even mean? What is that implying?

602
00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:02,080
Speaker 1: It's the implication that they are an asset or they

603
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:07,880
Speaker 1: are contracting out. So so, for instance, like the in

604
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:11,400
Speaker 1: the intelligence community for just making up an example, Let's

605
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:15,399
Speaker 1: say that you are you are trying to conduct an

606
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:21,280
Speaker 1: operation in a country where that's unfriendly to your intelligence agency,

607
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:25,080
Speaker 1: and you need to have plausible deniability, So you're not

608
00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:28,239
Speaker 1: actually doing stuff. You know, you're not actually in the

609
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:31,440
Speaker 1: streets launching a coup and overthrowing the government. However, you

610
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:35,479
Speaker 1: have some connections with a local student union and they

611
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 1: are protesting for democracy or better access to lithium or whatever,

612
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:43,920
Speaker 1: and that's that's the kind of thing. So somebody can

613
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:49,520
Speaker 1: work with an intelligence outfit and not themselves be a

614
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:52,439
Speaker 1: member of the FBI or the CIA or whatever. So

615
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:56,880
Speaker 1: the implication there is that if we're going absolutely crazy,

616
00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:59,600
Speaker 1: there's no hard proof of this yet, the implication there

617
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:05,200
Speaker 1: is that he was practicing honeypot techniques or honey traps

618
00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:06,239
Speaker 1: if you want to call him that.

619
00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:09,600
Speaker 3: Sort of like what the Steele dossier that Trump, that

620
00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:12,960
Speaker 3: you know, supposedly existed on Trump would have been in

621
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:16,520
Speaker 3: terms of the Russian government setting honeypot traps for foreign

622
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:20,160
Speaker 3: dignitaries and then using uh, you know, compromand on them

623
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:21,000
Speaker 3: to blackmail them.

624
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:25,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, comprom at with a K, which is such a

625
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:26,600
Speaker 1: crazy great word, but the.

626
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:30,520
Speaker 4: It's so odd that it seems so easy to find

627
00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:34,919
Speaker 4: the weird inclinations of you know, powerful people.

628
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:37,920
Speaker 1: And perhaps it's a measure of gradients, you know, I

629
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:41,439
Speaker 1: I if we're being dystopian, what do you think about

630
00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:45,840
Speaker 1: the possibility of this scenario. What if after a certain

631
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:49,759
Speaker 1: amount of success, like real genuine merit, right, what if

632
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:55,799
Speaker 1: you reach some social or financial threshold of influence and

633
00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:59,560
Speaker 1: power where to join the inner circle, you are required

634
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:05,240
Speaker 1: to do certain things right, like you are required perhaps

635
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:07,799
Speaker 1: and this is very I have no proof of this.

636
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:11,480
Speaker 1: I'm just asking this a thought experiment. Like let's say

637
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:16,000
Speaker 1: you're you're up for partnership or you're going to join

638
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:19,360
Speaker 1: this you know, international bank whatever, and they say, okay,

639
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:22,160
Speaker 1: Well to get into the inner circle, something we all

640
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:24,960
Speaker 1: have to do, you know what I mean? Like black mirror.

641
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:29,319
Speaker 1: Example would be having sexual congress with an animal, right,

642
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:32,400
Speaker 1: this is it something like this.

643
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:35,120
Speaker 4: And it has to be filmed and people who are

644
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:38,160
Speaker 4: in charge get to keep that just in case you

645
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:39,960
Speaker 4: start doing something they don't like.

646
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:44,120
Speaker 1: Right, and intelligence communities have done stuff like this before,

647
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:48,640
Speaker 1: this extortion, this blackmail. It changes with the age, the

648
00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:54,160
Speaker 1: time and place, like in countries where homosexuality was outlawed

649
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:59,040
Speaker 1: intelligence communities would collect that dirt on people and say,

650
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:02,439
Speaker 1: you know, vote this way or do this thing if

651
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:06,560
Speaker 1: you don't want your secret revealed. The difference here being

652
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:09,879
Speaker 1: that homosexuality is very much not a crime, and it's

653
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:12,759
Speaker 1: very much not a choice people make. It's who they are,

654
00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:14,480
Speaker 1: and they should have the right to live their lives.

655
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:19,720
Speaker 1: And this one was using child abuse if that's the case.

656
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:23,719
Speaker 1: If that's the case, then the argument becomes that Epstein

657
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:28,520
Speaker 1: had a backer, a state actor of some sort or

658
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:34,360
Speaker 1: a faction within a state actor that was enabling his

659
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:38,359
Speaker 1: access and reaping the rewards. But back to your question, Matt,

660
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:43,840
Speaker 1: the thing that really, the thing that really horrifies me

661
00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:49,919
Speaker 1: is the idea that at some point the people who

662
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:53,560
Speaker 1: were if this were some kind of intelligence operation, the

663
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:58,239
Speaker 1: people who are doing this to children. Again, if it's

664
00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:01,600
Speaker 1: all true, they agreed to do it, you know what

665
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:04,759
Speaker 1: I mean, they consented at least. I don't know what

666
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:06,800
Speaker 1: brings a person to that point.

667
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:11,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know. I mean, it's all conspiratorial. It

668
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:15,000
Speaker 4: has a it feels, at least in my gut, like

669
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:21,880
Speaker 4: there was something like this occurring. I cannot prove it

670
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:25,839
Speaker 4: that the United States or some intelligence group was using

671
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:28,720
Speaker 4: him directly to do this thing as a tool, as

672
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:30,319
Speaker 4: like you were saying, Ben as somebody who can go

673
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:34,319
Speaker 4: into a country, not as a state actor, not as

674
00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:36,799
Speaker 4: an official agent or something like that, but has the

675
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:40,200
Speaker 4: wealth and influence to make things happen. And he also

676
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:44,680
Speaker 4: has this ability to get you what you want for

677
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:49,400
Speaker 4: your messed up fantasies, and you will use that against

678
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:50,760
Speaker 4: you simultaneously.

679
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:53,920
Speaker 3: Absolutely, and speaking of getting you what you want, this

680
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 3: is really interesting. We talked about some co conspirators and

681
00:40:56,760 --> 00:40:59,000
Speaker 3: you know, the question is like, what's next. Okay, so

682
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:02,799
Speaker 3: we've got is clearly out of the picture. Any prosecution

683
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:06,040
Speaker 3: against him is kind of moot, but it's certainly not

684
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:08,640
Speaker 3: moot as far as the victims are concerned and as

685
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:11,319
Speaker 3: far as the fallout for some of these co conspirators,

686
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:15,320
Speaker 3: one of whom is a British socialite and longtime pal

687
00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:19,120
Speaker 3: of Epstein's by the name of Gieslon Maxwell, who's fifty

688
00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:23,759
Speaker 3: seven years old, and ever since the kind of renewed

689
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:27,440
Speaker 3: interest in this case, has apparently been hiding out in

690
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:32,279
Speaker 3: a mansion in Manchester by the Sea, Massachusetts, an oceanfront

691
00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:37,799
Speaker 3: property owned by her CEO Tech CEO boyfriend Scott Borgerson,

692
00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:40,359
Speaker 3: who kind of does all the running around and walking

693
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:42,960
Speaker 3: over dog and getting groceries, and she very rarely leaves

694
00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:47,000
Speaker 3: the property. She was named in that very same deposition

695
00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:50,800
Speaker 3: that we've been quoting from, and fought tooth and nail

696
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:56,000
Speaker 3: to keep those pages, those two thousand pages from that

697
00:41:56,080 --> 00:42:00,600
Speaker 3: defamation lawsuit against her by Virginia Goofrey, who you know,

698
00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:03,400
Speaker 3: the one who was deposed and gave all this information

699
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:06,919
Speaker 3: with these new individuals that were connected, did not want

700
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:10,800
Speaker 3: that unsealed, and is very clearly someone that had something

701
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:12,960
Speaker 3: to do with this very very real crime. I think

702
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:16,600
Speaker 3: no one's questioning that this happened, that this man was

703
00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:20,200
Speaker 3: responsible for these crimes. I know he wasn't tried, but

704
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:22,160
Speaker 3: I just don't I feel like he's being referred to

705
00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:25,440
Speaker 3: as a pedophile, I mean unequivocally. Maybe that's not fair.

706
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:28,120
Speaker 3: Maybe that's trying him in the court of public opinion,

707
00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:29,400
Speaker 3: because he definitely.

708
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:32,560
Speaker 4: But he already got tried in the courts, and they

709
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:34,000
Speaker 4: just kind of push it away.

710
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:36,600
Speaker 3: But that's so confusing to me, Like there wasn't even

711
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:37,920
Speaker 3: a verdict rendered.

712
00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:41,520
Speaker 1: Right in the original one. Yeah, he was found guilty

713
00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:45,480
Speaker 1: on that one count, which one on the account of

714
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:49,960
Speaker 1: soliciting a minor for prostitution. Because, like we said earlier, though,

715
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:55,040
Speaker 1: even the way that is framed really really is incredibly

716
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:59,080
Speaker 1: disrespectful to the victims. Absolutely, it's not like they consented

717
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:02,600
Speaker 1: at all, you know. So it also goes you know, Dershowitz.

718
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:07,200
Speaker 1: Alan Dershowitz was scheduled to do a mock trial in

719
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:11,640
Speaker 1: which he would defend Biblical child traffickers. This is true.

720
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:16,800
Speaker 1: What yeah, at a place called Temple Emmanuel Striker Center

721
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:20,200
Speaker 1: in New York. It was originally going to happen in November,

722
00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:24,160
Speaker 1: it got canceled because of this sort of stuff. He

723
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:28,760
Speaker 1: would be acting as defense in the People versus Joseph's brothers.

724
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:32,920
Speaker 1: This is an annual mock trial hosted by the Center

725
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:37,319
Speaker 1: based on stories from the Torah and The idea here

726
00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:39,959
Speaker 1: was that they would argue in front of a US

727
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:44,279
Speaker 1: District court judge a person named Ronnie Abrams, and Abrams

728
00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:47,600
Speaker 1: would decide whether the brothers of Joseph, who appear in

729
00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:51,080
Speaker 1: Genesis in the Torah and Bible, should be held guilty

730
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:54,680
Speaker 1: for selling young Joseph as a slave some.

731
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:59,480
Speaker 3: Kind of sick like legal thought experiment. So strange. Well,

732
00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:03,160
Speaker 3: there is some good news ish, I guess. Senator Ben Sass,

733
00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:09,440
Speaker 3: a Republican from Nebraska, just this week urged William Barr,

734
00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:14,440
Speaker 3: the Attorney General, who himself was dubious of the apparent suicide,

735
00:44:14,719 --> 00:44:16,719
Speaker 3: said that we need to launch an investigation. Whether or

736
00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:19,160
Speaker 3: not that's just optics, it's hard to say, you know,

737
00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:24,399
Speaker 3: but Sas is calling to quote unquote rip up that

738
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:28,240
Speaker 3: non prosecution deal from two thousand and eight and hold

739
00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:31,279
Speaker 3: his co conspirators accountable.

740
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:33,280
Speaker 2: Wow, that's real.

741
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:35,919
Speaker 3: They were just given the pass right like they weren't.

742
00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:39,200
Speaker 3: Even there's no black mark on their record as far

743
00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:39,800
Speaker 3: as the law.

744
00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:43,680
Speaker 1: Is concerned, you know, no legal ramification.

745
00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:47,520
Speaker 3: Right, and they're alive and well, living in million dollar

746
00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:52,000
Speaker 3: palatial estates, you know, by the sea exactly.

747
00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:54,719
Speaker 1: And we have to wonder, Look, what do you think

748
00:44:54,719 --> 00:44:58,520
Speaker 1: you're the most skeptical person has ever set foot upon

749
00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:02,040
Speaker 1: this crazy experien of ours called Earth, or whether you

750
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:06,960
Speaker 1: think the things that the mainstream considers the most out

751
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:12,319
Speaker 1: there are the most true. The fact remains, something very

752
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:19,319
Speaker 1: very rotten is present. Something happened and is happening, right,

753
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:24,640
Speaker 1: And we felt obligated to make this update, you know,

754
00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:29,000
Speaker 1: but we will probably have to keep looking into this

755
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:32,520
Speaker 1: because stories like this, as strange as it sounds, they

756
00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:34,200
Speaker 1: can disappear well.

757
00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:39,239
Speaker 3: And at the very least, this very strange handling of

758
00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:43,239
Speaker 3: a very serious crime in the original case is kind

759
00:45:43,239 --> 00:45:46,200
Speaker 3: of being treated like not that big a deal, you

760
00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:46,560
Speaker 3: know what I mean?

761
00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:49,759
Speaker 4: Yeah, No, I know exactly what I mean. Well, it

762
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:51,080
Speaker 4: makes me want to go back to that New York

763
00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:54,319
Speaker 4: Times article for just one more minute, you guys. To

764
00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:57,000
Speaker 4: the end. I'm going to read a quote from this

765
00:45:57,120 --> 00:46:01,640
Speaker 4: article again. This makes so much much sense to me. Okay,

766
00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:05,719
Speaker 4: So imagine right now, if we didn't know anything about

767
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:08,240
Speaker 4: Jeffrey Epstein. We just knew what was on the surface

768
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:12,080
Speaker 4: about him. He's some billionaire hedge fund manager guy that

769
00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:16,880
Speaker 4: manages a bunch of rich people's money. That's all we

770
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:19,560
Speaker 4: know about him. Right then imagine that Let's say we're

771
00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:22,719
Speaker 4: sitting in a hotel bar or something. Somebody walks up

772
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:27,120
Speaker 4: to us and here's here's the quote. Imagine being told

773
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:31,200
Speaker 4: all we know about him that he wasn't just a billionaire,

774
00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:35,120
Speaker 4: but a man mysteriously made and mysteriously protected who ran

775
00:46:35,160 --> 00:46:37,839
Speaker 4: a pedophile island with a temple to an unknown god

776
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:41,080
Speaker 4: and plotted his own boys from Brazil endgame in playing

777
00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:45,480
Speaker 4: sight of his Harvard DC House of windsor Pals. It's

778
00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:48,400
Speaker 4: it would be insane, you would not believe that for

779
00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:52,840
Speaker 4: a second, that idea of a conspiracy theory feeling so

780
00:46:54,040 --> 00:47:00,520
Speaker 4: out there, it's perfectly represented there. But it's but it true.

781
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:03,080
Speaker 3: Oh no. But we've talked on the show multiple times

782
00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:06,040
Speaker 3: about how the term conspiracy theory itself is so reductive

783
00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:08,680
Speaker 3: and it's it's literally, there's a word for it, ben

784
00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:11,799
Speaker 3: you might you might remember just of like when you're

785
00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:16,160
Speaker 3: trying it's that cognitive dissonance maybe, or like when thought

786
00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:19,279
Speaker 3: terminating cliche exactly, thank you. Yeah, for sure. This is

787
00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:22,439
Speaker 3: this idea that by calling something that you're dismissing its

788
00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:27,080
Speaker 3: veracity on all levels, and you're you're like basically belittling

789
00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:30,200
Speaker 3: the person that's trying to discuss this with you to

790
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:33,560
Speaker 3: crackpot territory. And that's a really important part to us

791
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:36,160
Speaker 3: about this show, is that we do try to look

792
00:47:36,160 --> 00:47:38,160
Speaker 3: at all sides and we talk about these things for

793
00:47:38,200 --> 00:47:42,160
Speaker 3: a reason because even if you know things are largely false,

794
00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:44,960
Speaker 3: it's an interesting part of the human condition to like

795
00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:48,360
Speaker 3: look for answers and try to, even if it's in

796
00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:52,200
Speaker 3: kind of a weird, reverse engineered way. But this is

797
00:47:52,239 --> 00:47:56,440
Speaker 3: a perfect example of a thing that is absolutely provable

798
00:47:56,640 --> 00:47:59,120
Speaker 3: on so many levels and absolutely represents things that are

799
00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:00,640
Speaker 3: happening in the shadow all the time.

800
00:48:00,680 --> 00:48:03,920
Speaker 1: I would say, I suggest that we since we can't

801
00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:06,920
Speaker 1: answer all the questions yet and maybe hopefully we'll be

802
00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:11,359
Speaker 1: able to one day, I suggest we end on one

803
00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:17,040
Speaker 1: last question. If there was compromat, if there was video

804
00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:26,000
Speaker 1: or photographic footage or evidence of these crimes occurring, like physically,

805
00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:29,120
Speaker 1: we could see, you know, these named co conspirators and

806
00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:34,160
Speaker 1: others engaging in these crimes. Who has the footage? That

807
00:48:34,200 --> 00:48:36,600
Speaker 1: would be one of the most explosive and powerful things

808
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:40,840
Speaker 1: to possess. We know that somehow Epstein got hipped to

809
00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:46,040
Speaker 1: a search in advance at least once. So where did

810
00:48:46,080 --> 00:48:48,839
Speaker 1: it go? Did you destroy it? Is it somewhere else?

811
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:53,680
Speaker 4: I bet it's backed up in multiple countries, in multiple banks.

812
00:48:54,200 --> 00:48:58,240
Speaker 4: I bet you that's where it is. That's just complete speculation, maybe,

813
00:48:58,239 --> 00:49:00,239
Speaker 4: but I can imagine him traveling around and put it

814
00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:02,280
Speaker 4: in like a deposit.

815
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:17,359
Speaker 1: Box, building redundancy. Yeah, let's call this breaking news. So

816
00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:22,720
Speaker 1: we recorded the episode on Epstein yesterday, which you just heard,

817
00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:26,040
Speaker 1: and then it stayed with us because we said it

818
00:49:26,040 --> 00:49:31,160
Speaker 1: would be an imperfect update. And I owe Matt and

819
00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:37,120
Speaker 1: Noel an apology because I started texting guys like for

820
00:49:37,200 --> 00:49:41,560
Speaker 1: something in the morning as more news broke. And so

821
00:49:41,719 --> 00:49:44,280
Speaker 1: now we've gotten together, I think we've all had about

822
00:49:44,280 --> 00:49:47,200
Speaker 1: a collective hour four hours of sleep.

823
00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:49,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, Ben is not joking. It really was four

824
00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:52,560
Speaker 4: in the morning, and the stuff that he was sending

825
00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:56,440
Speaker 4: us was so explosive we realized we absolutely had to

826
00:49:56,640 --> 00:49:57,840
Speaker 4: add it to this episode.

827
00:49:58,120 --> 00:50:02,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, the three of us as soon as we woke

828
00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:06,520
Speaker 1: up would have probably received tons of notifications about this stuff,

829
00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:09,719
Speaker 1: and we didn't want this episode to come out without it.

830
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:16,400
Speaker 1: Because you see Jeffrey Epstein's bodyguard in Palm Springs. A

831
00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:18,960
Speaker 1: guy named Igor Zenowev.

832
00:50:18,680 --> 00:50:20,759
Speaker 4: A former UFC fighter, former.

833
00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:27,719
Speaker 1: UFC fighter, mysterious Russian MMA fighter, just became the subject

834
00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:32,280
Speaker 1: of a huge amount of scrutiny because there is a

835
00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:37,360
Speaker 1: text interview with him that was released and is frankly

836
00:50:37,880 --> 00:50:41,120
Speaker 1: chilling and damning. And Matt, you went through and found

837
00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:42,520
Speaker 1: excerpts of this thing.

838
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:44,759
Speaker 4: I did just for a little more context. It's a

839
00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:49,160
Speaker 4: phone call that happened between this journalist and Igor, and

840
00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:52,040
Speaker 4: it's in reference to or an update to a previous

841
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:56,840
Speaker 4: phone call that they had in twenty fifteen, and Igor like,

842
00:50:56,880 --> 00:50:59,359
Speaker 4: apparently it took forever to try and track him down.

843
00:50:59,360 --> 00:51:01,200
Speaker 4: Nobody's been able to get a hold of this guy.

844
00:51:01,600 --> 00:51:06,000
Speaker 4: But because this journalist had an inn already through speaking

845
00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:08,239
Speaker 4: to him in twenty fifteen, I guess Igor picked up

846
00:51:08,239 --> 00:51:08,960
Speaker 4: the phone call.

847
00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:13,799
Speaker 1: And that journalist is M. L. Nostelle. Who you know,

848
00:51:14,040 --> 00:51:16,839
Speaker 1: if that name pops up as a suicide, I would

849
00:51:16,880 --> 00:51:17,759
Speaker 1: also not believe it.

850
00:51:18,040 --> 00:51:22,880
Speaker 4: Well, here's why. Let's get into some of the quotations here. So,

851
00:51:22,960 --> 00:51:26,680
Speaker 4: as we said, this is in reference to a previous conversation.

852
00:51:27,120 --> 00:51:32,080
Speaker 4: Now in this version, the twenty nineteen conversation, the journalist

853
00:51:32,080 --> 00:51:34,520
Speaker 4: one more time was the name that is M. L.

854
00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:37,080
Speaker 1: Nestelle in eest El.

855
00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:41,360
Speaker 4: Okay, So Nostelle is noticing that Egor is being extremely

856
00:51:41,400 --> 00:51:44,920
Speaker 4: evasive in the previous things that he had stated in

857
00:51:44,920 --> 00:51:47,640
Speaker 4: twenty fifteen. So I'm gonna let's read a couple of

858
00:51:47,719 --> 00:51:51,080
Speaker 4: things here. So this is Nostelle, the journalist in our

859
00:51:51,120 --> 00:51:55,880
Speaker 4: conversation in twenty fifteen, you described his relationship with teenage girlfriends, quote.

860
00:51:56,480 --> 00:51:59,080
Speaker 4: So many times I tried to stop him. I tried

861
00:51:59,080 --> 00:52:02,560
Speaker 4: to tell him my opinion about that. He don't listen

862
00:52:02,640 --> 00:52:04,920
Speaker 4: to me. That's the reason why I'm not working for

863
00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:07,319
Speaker 4: him no more. I make him do that to let

864
00:52:07,360 --> 00:52:09,239
Speaker 4: me go. Do you remember saying that?

865
00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:12,200
Speaker 1: And so before we get to his response, we want

866
00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:14,799
Speaker 1: to be clear that because this is a phone call,

867
00:52:15,520 --> 00:52:19,200
Speaker 1: the journalists made the decision not to try to correct

868
00:52:19,200 --> 00:52:19,960
Speaker 1: any grammar.

869
00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:22,040
Speaker 4: No paraphrasing, no paraphrasing.

870
00:52:22,120 --> 00:52:25,160
Speaker 1: This is exactly the physical record of what Igor said.

871
00:52:25,200 --> 00:52:28,840
Speaker 1: So his response in the second interview is, it's not

872
00:52:28,960 --> 00:52:32,080
Speaker 1: the teenage girls. I never see the teenage girls. I

873
00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:35,760
Speaker 1: tell you I never see teenage girls plenty of times

874
00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:38,360
Speaker 1: when I work for him, I never see anything on

875
00:52:38,520 --> 00:52:42,080
Speaker 1: proper or teenage girls around him. That's what I say.

876
00:52:42,360 --> 00:52:45,839
Speaker 4: And again that quote from earlier from the journalist is

877
00:52:45,880 --> 00:52:48,520
Speaker 4: exactly what was stated the last time they spoke, and

878
00:52:48,280 --> 00:52:49,400
Speaker 4: he's now denying it.

879
00:52:49,440 --> 00:52:51,000
Speaker 1: Why don't we go on just a little bit, Okay,

880
00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:52,319
Speaker 1: don't feel the tension here.

881
00:52:52,440 --> 00:52:55,560
Speaker 4: So the journalist says, so, now you say you only

882
00:52:55,560 --> 00:52:59,240
Speaker 4: saw him with women older than eighteen twenty all.

883
00:52:59,120 --> 00:53:01,759
Speaker 1: What I say, he has always been with girlfriends and

884
00:53:01,800 --> 00:53:04,720
Speaker 1: there was a couple girls. I don't remember their names.

885
00:53:04,880 --> 00:53:08,120
Speaker 1: She was twenty five and worked for him as assistant,

886
00:53:08,560 --> 00:53:11,560
Speaker 1: maybe twenty five or twenty three whatever. I don't know

887
00:53:11,600 --> 00:53:12,040
Speaker 1: the age.

888
00:53:12,280 --> 00:53:14,880
Speaker 4: Okay, but you definitely told me that last time we talked.

889
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:19,480
Speaker 1: No, no, it's not that he's working like work release

890
00:53:19,600 --> 00:53:21,920
Speaker 1: on other stuff. And I just tell him, you know,

891
00:53:22,280 --> 00:53:24,759
Speaker 1: he would order his girlfriends around, and I told him,

892
00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:28,359
Speaker 1: calm down, it's not just teenage girls. I never see

893
00:53:28,400 --> 00:53:31,239
Speaker 1: teenage girls in my life at his house. That's what

894
00:53:31,280 --> 00:53:36,160
Speaker 1: it is. That's a misunderstanding completely. And then he goes

895
00:53:36,200 --> 00:53:40,240
Speaker 1: on and it's true. I think this is really important.

896
00:53:40,280 --> 00:53:40,760
Speaker 3: It's true.

897
00:53:41,360 --> 00:53:45,440
Speaker 1: Without hearing the intonation of the conversation, we can maybe

898
00:53:45,640 --> 00:53:47,480
Speaker 1: find ourselves reading some tea leaves.

899
00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:52,400
Speaker 3: So basically, he's backpedaling on the age, like he unequivocally

900
00:53:52,440 --> 00:53:54,960
Speaker 3: in the first comment said I tried to stop him

901
00:53:55,280 --> 00:53:58,279
Speaker 3: with the teenage girls. It was weird. And then god,

902
00:53:58,600 --> 00:54:01,239
Speaker 3: the amount of times he says tea age girls in

903
00:54:01,320 --> 00:54:03,560
Speaker 3: the second one, the rebuttal or, I guess that's where

904
00:54:03,560 --> 00:54:06,600
Speaker 3: he kind of pulls back. It sounds so much like

905
00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:09,680
Speaker 3: he's got something to hide or as a talking point.

906
00:54:09,800 --> 00:54:13,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, yea so we have to remember he was functioning

907
00:54:13,040 --> 00:54:17,680
Speaker 4: as bodyguard and drivers sometimes and combat trainer in combat

908
00:54:17,680 --> 00:54:20,720
Speaker 4: trainer in light combat at least according at least according

909
00:54:20,719 --> 00:54:24,640
Speaker 4: to Egor. But he lived on in a guesthouse on

910
00:54:24,640 --> 00:54:27,439
Speaker 4: a property of Epstein for a long time. He would

911
00:54:27,560 --> 00:54:30,359
Speaker 4: drive Epstein to locations where he would stay in the car.

912
00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:32,399
Speaker 4: Epstein would leave for a couple hours and come back.

913
00:54:32,880 --> 00:54:35,280
Speaker 4: Now most of this is during the time that Epstein

914
00:54:35,560 --> 00:54:38,359
Speaker 4: was in jail, but he was getting those twelve hour

915
00:54:38,560 --> 00:54:42,160
Speaker 4: releases where he would go and have these meetings and

916
00:54:42,239 --> 00:54:43,920
Speaker 4: Igor would just shuttle him around.

917
00:54:44,239 --> 00:54:46,080
Speaker 1: So I want to go to a different part of

918
00:54:46,120 --> 00:54:52,799
Speaker 1: this too. So several times in this interview the journalist

919
00:54:53,120 --> 00:54:59,319
Speaker 1: is literally quoting verbatim back to Igor. And there's this

920
00:54:59,360 --> 00:55:02,040
Speaker 1: one part that really stands out, and it's an old

921
00:55:02,120 --> 00:55:05,640
Speaker 1: quote that he says, all right, the journalist is saying,

922
00:55:05,680 --> 00:55:09,000
Speaker 1: I understand this is sensitive. Igoor saying it's not sensitive,

923
00:55:09,120 --> 00:55:12,279
Speaker 1: it's just kind of a little uncorrect. And then the

924
00:55:12,360 --> 00:55:16,320
Speaker 1: journalist goes in hard and says, it's exactly what you said.

925
00:55:16,520 --> 00:55:18,680
Speaker 1: I can send it to you. Here's something else. Who

926
00:55:18,719 --> 00:55:22,200
Speaker 1: said it could be tricky, you know, normally he meaning Epstein,

927
00:55:22,440 --> 00:55:25,640
Speaker 1: always checks his newspapers. Nothing about me, I say, no,

928
00:55:26,440 --> 00:55:29,400
Speaker 1: they forget about me. And what I mentioned Epstein was

929
00:55:29,400 --> 00:55:33,040
Speaker 1: being exposed for messing with teenage girls. You said, I'm

930
00:55:33,040 --> 00:55:35,680
Speaker 1: not surprised at all. I'm just surprised how low he

931
00:55:35,719 --> 00:55:39,040
Speaker 1: can be outside the real world. Someday is going to

932
00:55:39,120 --> 00:55:41,719
Speaker 1: call him and it will be real jail. He has

933
00:55:41,840 --> 00:55:44,480
Speaker 1: so much money he can pay it off me personally.

934
00:55:44,520 --> 00:55:47,239
Speaker 1: If I caught him with my daughter or something like that,

935
00:55:47,480 --> 00:55:50,120
Speaker 1: I'm not going to go to police. I do something

936
00:55:50,120 --> 00:55:53,239
Speaker 1: else much worse. That guy could try to assume me

937
00:55:53,280 --> 00:55:56,760
Speaker 1: and manipulate the situation with his money. That's the American way.

938
00:55:56,920 --> 00:55:59,240
Speaker 1: I know. He screwed up a lot of fashion girls. Also,

939
00:55:59,600 --> 00:56:00,800
Speaker 1: that's a different story.

940
00:56:01,760 --> 00:56:05,320
Speaker 3: Why would he be so candid like that with a reporter.

941
00:56:05,560 --> 00:56:07,920
Speaker 1: I guess he thought it was untouchable, you know, yea,

942
00:56:08,120 --> 00:56:10,480
Speaker 1: like nothing would come of it because nothing had.

943
00:56:10,400 --> 00:56:11,960
Speaker 2: But that changed.

944
00:56:12,080 --> 00:56:14,440
Speaker 3: No, I mean, would I would think he would consider,

945
00:56:15,160 --> 00:56:17,279
Speaker 3: you know, especially what he's saying about how powerful and

946
00:56:17,400 --> 00:56:20,600
Speaker 3: rich Epstein is, how he's untouchable. Why would he go

947
00:56:20,640 --> 00:56:23,799
Speaker 3: out on a limb like that about his employer and

948
00:56:23,880 --> 00:56:25,600
Speaker 3: put himself in the line of fire.

949
00:56:25,440 --> 00:56:28,520
Speaker 4: Like well, he was he was an employee, right, you

950
00:56:28,520 --> 00:56:31,880
Speaker 4: can only speculate what Epstein might have on him or

951
00:56:31,880 --> 00:56:34,239
Speaker 4: something like that, But who knows that kind of thing.

952
00:56:34,600 --> 00:56:37,680
Speaker 4: In this case, it's just a guy talking about his

953
00:56:37,719 --> 00:56:40,200
Speaker 4: employer who was in a lot of legal trouble. That's

954
00:56:40,200 --> 00:56:41,720
Speaker 4: what I'm imagining in twenty fifteen.

955
00:56:41,760 --> 00:56:44,440
Speaker 1: But I see the motivation too, Like it doesn't sound

956
00:56:45,200 --> 00:56:49,880
Speaker 1: like good housekeeping or good employee employer hygiene. But we

957
00:56:49,920 --> 00:56:54,399
Speaker 1: have to remember, legally speaking, we don't. This guy doesn't

958
00:56:54,400 --> 00:56:58,040
Speaker 1: have attorney client privilege or anything. I'm sure there might

959
00:56:58,080 --> 00:57:01,480
Speaker 1: be some sort of NDA, you know, or some equivalent.

960
00:57:01,800 --> 00:57:04,680
Speaker 1: But it gets really it gets really spooky. And you

961
00:57:04,719 --> 00:57:07,600
Speaker 1: can read the entirety of the phone call, at least

962
00:57:07,600 --> 00:57:11,800
Speaker 1: for now, in the transcript form on ny mag dot com.

963
00:57:12,440 --> 00:57:15,520
Speaker 1: But let's look at another segment of this, because this

964
00:57:15,600 --> 00:57:18,360
Speaker 1: does escalate. Right now, we just have a guy who

965
00:57:18,400 --> 00:57:21,400
Speaker 1: sounds like he's trying to walk back some smack he

966
00:57:21,440 --> 00:57:24,000
Speaker 1: was talking in twenty fifteen. Yeah, but this next part

967
00:57:24,040 --> 00:57:24,760
Speaker 1: is very different.

968
00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:27,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just before we get it's really odd to

969
00:57:27,120 --> 00:57:30,280
Speaker 3: me that he would walk it back after he's dead,

970
00:57:31,080 --> 00:57:33,040
Speaker 3: Like it seems like he would have less to lose

971
00:57:33,560 --> 00:57:35,240
Speaker 3: letting his original statements ride.

972
00:57:35,560 --> 00:57:38,840
Speaker 4: And then I mean, Epstein wasn't the dangerous one exactly.

973
00:57:38,840 --> 00:57:41,360
Speaker 3: There's something else going on here, So he goes, I'm

974
00:57:41,360 --> 00:57:44,040
Speaker 3: not afraid beyond that. Just he is dead. I don't

975
00:57:44,040 --> 00:57:47,320
Speaker 3: want anything to be uncorrect. There's too much in here.

976
00:57:47,520 --> 00:57:50,640
Speaker 3: You know already he's dead, and just like freaking people,

977
00:57:51,040 --> 00:57:53,880
Speaker 3: just leave him alone. Then the journalist asks, hold on,

978
00:57:54,200 --> 00:57:55,240
Speaker 3: when did you find out he.

979
00:57:55,240 --> 00:57:57,880
Speaker 1: Died Saturday or Sunday or whenever?

980
00:57:58,480 --> 00:58:01,040
Speaker 3: What did you think when you found that out?

981
00:58:01,480 --> 00:58:02,360
Speaker 1: What did I think?

982
00:58:02,600 --> 00:58:02,960
Speaker 2: Yeah?

983
00:58:03,120 --> 00:58:04,919
Speaker 1: Are you sure you want to hear what I'm going

984
00:58:05,000 --> 00:58:08,160
Speaker 1: to think? Yes, somebody helped him to do that.

985
00:58:09,040 --> 00:58:12,200
Speaker 3: You think somebody helped him kill himself? Yeah?

986
00:58:12,480 --> 00:58:16,520
Speaker 1: Okay, why listen? You know that's going a little too deep.

987
00:58:17,080 --> 00:58:19,320
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm just trying to understand that maybe you'd

988
00:58:19,360 --> 00:58:21,960
Speaker 3: be happy he was dead, or you would be upset.

989
00:58:22,040 --> 00:58:23,840
Speaker 3: I don't know, are you even feeling anything.

990
00:58:24,160 --> 00:58:26,760
Speaker 1: I'm not sad. I mean, I didn't have anything against him,

991
00:58:26,840 --> 00:58:29,160
Speaker 1: like a bad thing. You know, I don't care about

992
00:58:29,160 --> 00:58:32,960
Speaker 1: his life completely. I don't give let's say, like crap

993
00:58:33,040 --> 00:58:37,280
Speaker 1: about how he died, how he live, or how he's managed, how.

994
00:58:37,120 --> 00:58:38,480
Speaker 2: He's managed jeez.

995
00:58:39,320 --> 00:58:41,000
Speaker 3: How many years did you live in his house?

996
00:58:41,200 --> 00:58:43,280
Speaker 1: Five or six years in Palm Beach.

997
00:58:43,200 --> 00:58:45,760
Speaker 3: That's a long time. Yeah, you don't have any emotion

998
00:58:45,840 --> 00:58:49,000
Speaker 3: after learning he died. No, did you think it would

999
00:58:49,000 --> 00:58:49,640
Speaker 3: happen to him?

1000
00:58:49,920 --> 00:58:51,160
Speaker 1: It's unexpectable.

1001
00:58:51,280 --> 00:58:54,480
Speaker 3: Well, it's like, well, I realize others tried to talk

1002
00:58:54,520 --> 00:58:57,720
Speaker 3: to you. Did he ever offer money? Did he anybody

1003
00:58:57,720 --> 00:58:59,400
Speaker 3: ever try to silence you?

1004
00:58:59,440 --> 00:58:59,680
Speaker 2: No?

1005
00:59:00,880 --> 00:59:02,520
Speaker 3: I get that, but you and I have a history

1006
00:59:02,560 --> 00:59:05,000
Speaker 3: at this point. One thing he told me, for instance, Okay,

1007
00:59:05,000 --> 00:59:07,920
Speaker 3: one thing you told me is he got a heads

1008
00:59:08,000 --> 00:59:10,080
Speaker 3: up to when the authorities were going to come to

1009
00:59:10,120 --> 00:59:11,320
Speaker 3: his house the night before.

1010
00:59:11,560 --> 00:59:14,640
Speaker 1: Listen, what you say is between you and me.

1011
00:59:15,240 --> 00:59:17,080
Speaker 3: You told me he would get phone calls the night

1012
00:59:17,120 --> 00:59:19,479
Speaker 3: before at eight o'clock the police are going to come.

1013
00:59:19,680 --> 00:59:21,800
Speaker 3: He would get a heads up from the local police.

1014
00:59:23,320 --> 00:59:26,760
Speaker 3: You got some silence, some serious silence here. You told

1015
00:59:26,760 --> 00:59:28,680
Speaker 3: me that. Igor. You want me to read the quote

1016
00:59:28,680 --> 00:59:29,360
Speaker 3: back to you.

1017
00:59:29,240 --> 00:59:32,440
Speaker 1: Well, you can read whatever you want right now, don't

1018
00:59:32,480 --> 00:59:35,680
Speaker 1: just you can put yourself in big trouble.

1019
00:59:35,960 --> 00:59:39,000
Speaker 4: WHOA, Yeah, that's what he said. You can put yourself

1020
00:59:39,000 --> 00:59:42,040
Speaker 4: into a threat to me. Well, I don't know if

1021
00:59:42,040 --> 00:59:44,520
Speaker 4: it's a threat from him. I mean it sounds like

1022
00:59:44,600 --> 00:59:45,640
Speaker 4: he's a little scared.

1023
00:59:45,480 --> 00:59:48,120
Speaker 1: More of a warning. Yeah, it goes on because the journalist,

1024
00:59:48,360 --> 00:59:50,760
Speaker 1: this journalist is top nuts.

1025
00:59:50,840 --> 00:59:53,120
Speaker 3: Yeah. Here he is reading the quote you said he

1026
00:59:53,200 --> 00:59:55,920
Speaker 3: always do something wrong. There was some nights in question.

1027
00:59:56,640 --> 01:00:00,200
Speaker 3: There was at home arrest and police before they come

1028
01:00:00,280 --> 01:00:02,600
Speaker 3: to the house, they call him and tell him they

1029
01:00:02,720 --> 01:00:06,000
Speaker 3: coming in at eight o'clock in the morning. It's all corruption,

1030
01:00:06,200 --> 01:00:07,440
Speaker 3: you know, it's all.

1031
01:00:07,200 --> 01:00:11,200
Speaker 1: Both listen, don't put yourself in trouble seriously.

1032
01:00:11,360 --> 01:00:12,040
Speaker 2: Okay. Pause.

1033
01:00:12,360 --> 01:00:16,000
Speaker 4: So that is a huge implication there, or a huge accusation,

1034
01:00:16,120 --> 01:00:19,560
Speaker 4: is a huge statement saying that the local police. We

1035
01:00:19,640 --> 01:00:22,400
Speaker 4: talked about this in the episode, how he would get

1036
01:00:22,440 --> 01:00:24,680
Speaker 4: a heads up and know, like to clean things out

1037
01:00:24,680 --> 01:00:26,680
Speaker 4: of the house if they were if the authorities were

1038
01:00:26,720 --> 01:00:29,720
Speaker 4: coming over in the morning. This is what the bodyguard

1039
01:00:29,920 --> 01:00:31,920
Speaker 4: who lived with him is saying is happening.

1040
01:00:32,320 --> 01:00:36,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, which is not you know, not smoking gunproof, but

1041
01:00:36,880 --> 01:00:40,920
Speaker 1: is very chilling, circumstantial proof. And then from here on,

1042
01:00:41,560 --> 01:00:47,720
Speaker 1: Igor attempts to persuade this journalist to drop it, to

1043
01:00:47,960 --> 01:00:51,280
Speaker 1: let this stuff go. And we left off where he says,

1044
01:00:51,680 --> 01:00:55,960
Speaker 1: don't put yourself in trouble seriously. But the reporter, just

1045
01:00:56,200 --> 01:00:59,640
Speaker 1: like you know A moorey Eel clamping down continues.

1046
01:01:00,360 --> 01:01:01,200
Speaker 3: We talked about this.

1047
01:01:01,800 --> 01:01:03,280
Speaker 1: I understand, we got this.

1048
01:01:03,600 --> 01:01:07,040
Speaker 3: I'm telling you to give you a chance to remember

1049
01:01:07,280 --> 01:01:09,800
Speaker 3: because we talked about this stuff. I know it's hard.

1050
01:01:10,120 --> 01:01:13,280
Speaker 3: I don't know what you mean about put myself in trouble.

1051
01:01:13,560 --> 01:01:17,240
Speaker 3: Let that go, seriously, let that go. Why is it

1052
01:01:17,320 --> 01:01:19,880
Speaker 3: so important? Are you worried about the local cops?

1053
01:01:20,200 --> 01:01:23,360
Speaker 1: Listen, You're really smart, and I'm not going to offer

1054
01:01:23,440 --> 01:01:26,920
Speaker 1: that over the phone right now. Okay, you're really smart.

1055
01:01:27,160 --> 01:01:30,720
Speaker 1: You have no idea? Please, what do you mean by that?

1056
01:01:30,920 --> 01:01:33,600
Speaker 1: I can't explain you. I can't explain you over the

1057
01:01:33,640 --> 01:01:34,560
Speaker 1: phone any of this.

1058
01:01:35,000 --> 01:01:37,880
Speaker 3: You said that last time, and we didn't talk for years.

1059
01:01:38,320 --> 01:01:41,080
Speaker 3: You can tell the world who this guy was. You

1060
01:01:41,080 --> 01:01:42,960
Speaker 3: were with him for a long time, you know what

1061
01:01:43,000 --> 01:01:48,760
Speaker 3: I mean. Silence. I totally understand that you think he

1062
01:01:48,800 --> 01:01:50,800
Speaker 3: could have had help committing suicide.

1063
01:01:51,040 --> 01:01:53,560
Speaker 1: First of all, I have to go right now. I

1064
01:01:53,600 --> 01:01:59,520
Speaker 1: have another client still training people. Yes, but just be careful.

1065
01:01:59,600 --> 01:02:00,760
Speaker 1: I am not kidding.

1066
01:02:01,120 --> 01:02:02,600
Speaker 3: What's your email so I can send it.

1067
01:02:02,680 --> 01:02:07,160
Speaker 1: Don't do any kind of that stuff. Just don't play it. Seriously.

1068
01:02:07,680 --> 01:02:09,160
Speaker 3: Can you tell me why I can't.

1069
01:02:09,280 --> 01:02:09,760
Speaker 1: I can't.

1070
01:02:10,680 --> 01:02:11,840
Speaker 3: I ask you one more question.

1071
01:02:12,040 --> 01:02:12,600
Speaker 1: Go ahead.

1072
01:02:13,680 --> 01:02:16,120
Speaker 3: Have you been talking to anyone in the government, the FBI,

1073
01:02:16,400 --> 01:02:17,240
Speaker 3: Have they come to you.

1074
01:02:18,840 --> 01:02:20,400
Speaker 2: There's a long pause here.

1075
01:02:23,080 --> 01:02:26,520
Speaker 1: Great talking to you seriously? Will we talk later?

1076
01:02:27,280 --> 01:02:27,600
Speaker 2: Really?

1077
01:02:27,880 --> 01:02:28,200
Speaker 1: Bye?

1078
01:02:28,880 --> 01:02:29,680
Speaker 3: All right bye?

1079
01:02:30,280 --> 01:02:33,440
Speaker 4: That's insane. That was four am last night. Where as

1080
01:02:33,440 --> 01:02:36,480
Speaker 4: we're reading through all of that, it's bonkers.

1081
01:02:36,480 --> 01:02:40,920
Speaker 1: Man, whoa so again not fool proof, no, but chilling,

1082
01:02:41,400 --> 01:02:42,600
Speaker 1: chilling stuff.

1083
01:02:42,240 --> 01:02:46,320
Speaker 3: And especially all the you better watch it, seriously.

1084
01:02:46,400 --> 01:02:46,880
Speaker 1: Let that go.

1085
01:02:47,000 --> 01:02:47,400
Speaker 2: Let it go.

1086
01:02:47,520 --> 01:02:49,520
Speaker 3: Man, that's like some movie stuff right there.

1087
01:02:49,600 --> 01:02:51,920
Speaker 4: I mean, well, that is a dangerous dude. This is

1088
01:02:52,160 --> 01:02:55,280
Speaker 4: this is an MMA fighter who was good at his job.

1089
01:02:55,400 --> 01:02:59,400
Speaker 1: There's a picture of him too, so he is kind

1090
01:02:59,400 --> 01:03:01,680
Speaker 1: of in a We don't have a lot of information

1091
01:03:01,760 --> 01:03:04,720
Speaker 1: on him yet, but we have another quick update. We

1092
01:03:04,800 --> 01:03:10,440
Speaker 1: found those prison guards that we mentioned, who I think,

1093
01:03:10,480 --> 01:03:13,760
Speaker 1: as you have mentioned, No, they had been asleep and

1094
01:03:13,840 --> 01:03:16,960
Speaker 1: falsified records on the night of the death or at

1095
01:03:17,000 --> 01:03:17,720
Speaker 1: the time of the death.

1096
01:03:17,880 --> 01:03:20,400
Speaker 3: At the very least, they did not check on him

1097
01:03:20,440 --> 01:03:23,200
Speaker 3: at all and claim that they did. Was the asleep

1098
01:03:23,280 --> 01:03:23,960
Speaker 3: thing confirmed?

1099
01:03:24,440 --> 01:03:29,080
Speaker 1: Apparently, yes, Apparently they were not only sleeping on their

1100
01:03:29,160 --> 01:03:33,320
Speaker 1: job literally, they were also not the regular guards. They

1101
01:03:33,320 --> 01:03:37,360
Speaker 1: were temporary guards who had been assigned, And it feels

1102
01:03:37,360 --> 01:03:40,080
Speaker 1: weird to say, you know, it's my first few days

1103
01:03:40,080 --> 01:03:42,480
Speaker 1: of work some guy, I probably don't know that well,

1104
01:03:42,520 --> 01:03:44,760
Speaker 1: but I'm comfortable enough for both of us to snuggle

1105
01:03:44,840 --> 01:03:45,880
Speaker 1: up and take a snooze.

1106
01:03:46,120 --> 01:03:46,600
Speaker 2: Wow.

1107
01:03:46,840 --> 01:03:48,840
Speaker 1: I mean, maybe people have just a very different sense

1108
01:03:48,840 --> 01:03:49,920
Speaker 1: of boundaries.

1109
01:03:49,680 --> 01:03:50,880
Speaker 2: Especially with what's at stake.

1110
01:03:51,200 --> 01:03:53,720
Speaker 4: And we did talk about a little bit about how

1111
01:03:54,480 --> 01:03:59,240
Speaker 4: within the United States system of prisons there is a

1112
01:03:59,240 --> 01:04:01,400
Speaker 4: lot of being overworked as employees.

1113
01:04:01,520 --> 01:04:03,440
Speaker 2: Sure, so like taking an app.

1114
01:04:04,720 --> 01:04:06,920
Speaker 4: I don't know, it's not completely out of out of

1115
01:04:07,000 --> 01:04:09,360
Speaker 4: bounds of reason, but at the same time, for two

1116
01:04:09,440 --> 01:04:10,400
Speaker 4: at the same time.

1117
01:04:10,240 --> 01:04:13,520
Speaker 3: And right when they temporarily brought on on the day

1118
01:04:13,680 --> 01:04:14,480
Speaker 3: of this event.

1119
01:04:14,720 --> 01:04:16,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I mean, it sure seems like.

1120
01:04:16,840 --> 01:04:19,640
Speaker 3: There was some manipulation going on. Maybe they were brought

1121
01:04:19,640 --> 01:04:22,840
Speaker 3: in because they were in the know, you know, like

1122
01:04:22,880 --> 01:04:24,360
Speaker 3: they weren't gonna ask questions.

1123
01:04:24,760 --> 01:04:29,080
Speaker 4: I don't know who knows, but so that certainly continues

1124
01:04:29,320 --> 01:04:30,400
Speaker 4: to make the mind real.

1125
01:04:31,040 --> 01:04:33,720
Speaker 2: And then we got the autopsy results.

1126
01:04:33,360 --> 01:04:35,920
Speaker 1: Back, well we got part of it, yes, partial, partial,

1127
01:04:36,040 --> 01:04:38,160
Speaker 1: And this is this is the other thing we found

1128
01:04:39,320 --> 01:04:42,240
Speaker 1: in the wee hours of the morning A report from

1129
01:04:42,240 --> 01:04:46,200
Speaker 1: The Washington Post cited two people familiar with the findings

1130
01:04:46,320 --> 01:04:50,640
Speaker 1: of one of the autopsies, and it shows that Jeffrey

1131
01:04:50,640 --> 01:04:54,600
Speaker 1: Epstein sustained multiple breaks in his neck bones, including what's

1132
01:04:54,640 --> 01:04:57,480
Speaker 1: called his hyoid bone. That's sort of a like a

1133
01:04:57,600 --> 01:05:00,720
Speaker 1: picture of horseshoe and if you're a dou it's located

1134
01:05:00,760 --> 01:05:05,560
Speaker 1: near your Adam's apple. And the Post says, quote, such

1135
01:05:05,600 --> 01:05:09,120
Speaker 1: breaks can occur in those who hang themselves, particularly if

1136
01:05:09,160 --> 01:05:12,280
Speaker 1: they are older, according to forensic experts and studies on

1137
01:05:12,320 --> 01:05:15,720
Speaker 1: the subject, but they are more common in victims of

1138
01:05:15,760 --> 01:05:17,160
Speaker 1: homicide by strangulation.

1139
01:05:18,120 --> 01:05:22,320
Speaker 3: WHOA yeah, And let's not forget that other attempt where

1140
01:05:22,360 --> 01:05:25,480
Speaker 3: he had bruising around his neck. And I don't know

1141
01:05:25,520 --> 01:05:27,160
Speaker 3: that we mentioned this in the in the main part

1142
01:05:27,160 --> 01:05:30,080
Speaker 3: of the episode, but there were shrieks heard coming from

1143
01:05:30,120 --> 01:05:31,680
Speaker 3: his cell. You know, you don't.

1144
01:05:31,760 --> 01:05:32,919
Speaker 2: I don't even know that. You don't.

1145
01:05:33,240 --> 01:05:36,640
Speaker 3: You don't shriek when you're hanging yourself, that when you're

1146
01:05:36,720 --> 01:05:39,200
Speaker 3: being strangled or when you're being attacked. And I had

1147
01:05:39,200 --> 01:05:43,440
Speaker 3: a really great conversation with Jack O'Brien. We're actually just FYI,

1148
01:05:43,520 --> 01:05:45,960
Speaker 3: but people behind the we're in Orlando for this podcast.

1149
01:05:46,240 --> 01:05:48,840
Speaker 3: Convention podcast movement, and I have been lucky enough to

1150
01:05:48,840 --> 01:05:50,280
Speaker 3: get to hang with some of the West Coast folks

1151
01:05:50,360 --> 01:05:52,840
Speaker 3: from from our network, and Jack, who does the Daily

1152
01:05:52,880 --> 01:05:55,800
Speaker 3: Zeit guys, It's a fantastic show, was really interested in this,

1153
01:05:55,840 --> 01:05:57,320
Speaker 3: and we all spoke to him about it briefly, but

1154
01:05:58,880 --> 01:06:02,160
Speaker 3: he made the point of this is a guy who

1155
01:06:02,160 --> 01:06:05,720
Speaker 3: has demonstrated zero remorse, who has been able to wiggle

1156
01:06:05,760 --> 01:06:08,200
Speaker 3: his way out of every situation that he's been in

1157
01:06:08,400 --> 01:06:13,160
Speaker 3: because of his sheer wealth and opulence and connections.

1158
01:06:13,240 --> 01:06:16,080
Speaker 1: Right, I would say even more so the connections.

1159
01:06:15,640 --> 01:06:18,280
Speaker 3: Absolutely all of that combined. This is not a man

1160
01:06:19,080 --> 01:06:22,280
Speaker 3: who kills himself out of shame. This is a man

1161
01:06:22,320 --> 01:06:24,840
Speaker 3: who waits it out and sees what's gonna happen and

1162
01:06:24,880 --> 01:06:26,880
Speaker 3: sees what kind of out he can get. You know,

1163
01:06:27,320 --> 01:06:30,360
Speaker 3: it doesn't make any sense. Yeah, he was already shamed.

1164
01:06:31,040 --> 01:06:33,080
Speaker 3: If the shame was gonna do it for him, why

1165
01:06:33,080 --> 01:06:35,200
Speaker 3: didn't he do it? Why didn't he kill himself before?

1166
01:06:35,320 --> 01:06:35,520
Speaker 2: Well?

1167
01:06:36,000 --> 01:06:40,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, he also doesn't have a big family that we

1168
01:06:40,840 --> 01:06:43,560
Speaker 1: know of, right, and children that we know of, because

1169
01:06:43,600 --> 01:06:46,920
Speaker 1: the typical mob or criminal tactic would be too coerced

1170
01:06:46,960 --> 01:06:52,080
Speaker 1: suicide by threatening ones loved ones right, but that leverage

1171
01:06:52,160 --> 01:06:56,320
Speaker 1: doesn't seem to exist. I was on the Daily Zeite

1172
01:06:56,320 --> 01:07:00,840
Speaker 1: Guys Jack and Miles podcast talking about Epstein a little

1173
01:07:00,880 --> 01:07:03,960
Speaker 1: bit more, and they made the same point again, but

1174
01:07:04,120 --> 01:07:07,560
Speaker 1: before this information came out. You know, in this show,

1175
01:07:07,640 --> 01:07:11,600
Speaker 1: we're very careful to be very clear with all of

1176
01:07:11,640 --> 01:07:15,479
Speaker 1: our fellow listeners if we're giving out our opinion rather

1177
01:07:15,560 --> 01:07:19,080
Speaker 1: than facts, and you know, I have to be honest.

1178
01:07:19,280 --> 01:07:22,360
Speaker 1: This is just my opinion, and I definitely don't speak

1179
01:07:22,360 --> 01:07:27,080
Speaker 1: for everybody, but this is rotten. Something is not right.

1180
01:07:27,680 --> 01:07:31,960
Speaker 1: This guy did for one or two of these circumstances

1181
01:07:31,960 --> 01:07:36,680
Speaker 1: to happen. Sure, okay, right, overworked prison guards are not

1182
01:07:36,880 --> 01:07:40,600
Speaker 1: at their job one hundred percent, right, Or maybe someone

1183
01:07:40,680 --> 01:07:45,400
Speaker 1: with suicidal ideation is misdiagnosed by an overworked psychologist, right

1184
01:07:45,480 --> 01:07:48,920
Speaker 1: or psychiatrist. But for all these different things that happen

1185
01:07:49,360 --> 01:07:53,520
Speaker 1: at once at the same time, it's it can't be

1186
01:07:53,560 --> 01:07:57,120
Speaker 1: a coincidence. I feel like I'm Charlie Day and always

1187
01:07:57,120 --> 01:08:00,480
Speaker 1: sunny in Philadelphia in the mail room, pointing it stuff

1188
01:08:00,480 --> 01:08:03,200
Speaker 1: with a bunch of red string here. But I don't

1189
01:08:03,240 --> 01:08:04,040
Speaker 1: think it's off base.

1190
01:08:04,400 --> 01:08:08,000
Speaker 2: Who is it doesn't even exist?

1191
01:08:08,280 --> 01:08:13,880
Speaker 4: There is no Pepe how many times I know, I

1192
01:08:13,880 --> 01:08:14,480
Speaker 4: don't know, I don't.

1193
01:08:14,360 --> 01:08:15,560
Speaker 3: Think, I don't remember this. See I don't know who

1194
01:08:15,600 --> 01:08:18,240
Speaker 3: Pepen is either. No, that's the thing, and that's why

1195
01:08:18,280 --> 01:08:20,720
Speaker 3: that that op ed that we led the show with,

1196
01:08:20,920 --> 01:08:23,479
Speaker 3: I think is so interesting because this idea of a

1197
01:08:23,520 --> 01:08:26,439
Speaker 3: conspiracy theory or a conspiracy theorist is like a thought

1198
01:08:26,520 --> 01:08:31,240
Speaker 3: terminating cliche. This is this. These are two very real things.

1199
01:08:31,240 --> 01:08:35,080
Speaker 3: Conspiracies where people collude together, you know, for an end,

1200
01:08:35,160 --> 01:08:38,400
Speaker 3: a common end, and theory is a way of discussing

1201
01:08:38,680 --> 01:08:42,800
Speaker 3: open mindedly, hopefully in our case, those potential collusions. And

1202
01:08:43,200 --> 01:08:45,679
Speaker 3: this is just a clear cut case where these theories

1203
01:08:45,680 --> 01:08:48,320
Speaker 3: that we're putting out there are absolutely plausible.

1204
01:08:48,640 --> 01:08:48,920
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1205
01:08:49,200 --> 01:08:51,720
Speaker 1: I wouldn't even call this conspiracy theorized. And at this

1206
01:08:51,760 --> 01:08:54,960
Speaker 1: point it's much more like investigative true crime.

1207
01:08:55,040 --> 01:08:58,000
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, following the breadcrumbs and putting together in the puzzle.

1208
01:09:01,000 --> 01:09:05,559
Speaker 1: And that's our classic episode for this evening. We can't

1209
01:09:05,560 --> 01:09:06,400
Speaker 1: wait to hear your thoughts.

1210
01:09:06,479 --> 01:09:07,840
Speaker 3: It's right, let us know what you think. You can

1211
01:09:07,880 --> 01:09:10,439
Speaker 3: reach to the handle Conspiracy Stuff where we exist on

1212
01:09:10,479 --> 01:09:15,400
Speaker 3: Facebook X and YouTube, on Instagram and TikTok or Conspiracy Stuff.

1213
01:09:15,160 --> 01:09:17,280
Speaker 4: Show if you want to call us dial one eight

1214
01:09:17,479 --> 01:09:22,320
Speaker 4: three three std WYTK. That's our voicemail system. You've got

1215
01:09:22,320 --> 01:09:24,960
Speaker 4: three minutes. Give yourself a cool nickname and let us

1216
01:09:24,960 --> 01:09:26,640
Speaker 4: know if we can use your name and message on

1217
01:09:26,840 --> 01:09:28,840
Speaker 4: the air. If you got more to say than can

1218
01:09:28,840 --> 01:09:31,479
Speaker 4: fit in that voicemail, why not instead send us a

1219
01:09:31,520 --> 01:09:32,799
Speaker 4: good old fashioned email.

1220
01:09:33,040 --> 01:09:35,920
Speaker 1: We are the entities to read every single piece of

1221
01:09:35,920 --> 01:09:40,400
Speaker 1: correspondence we receive. Be aware, yet not afraid. Sometimes the

1222
01:09:40,439 --> 01:10:04,440
Speaker 1: void writes back conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

1223
01:10:00,880 --> 01:10:00,920
Speaker 2: No