1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,400 Speaker 1: Native Lampad is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership with 2 00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:04,720 Speaker 1: Reason Choice Media. 3 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:08,360 Speaker 2: Welcome Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome. 4 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:11,920 Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome home, y'all. I'm Angela Riah. I'm your host 5 00:00:11,960 --> 00:00:15,640 Speaker 1: today for this solo pod Tuesday, and I am so 6 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 1: thrilled because I get to have a conversation with one 7 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:23,639 Speaker 1: of my very good friends. Rashad is a brother to me. 8 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:29,320 Speaker 1: Rashad Robinson is someone who I've always deeply admired, and 9 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:34,159 Speaker 1: during the COVID pandemic we got so much closer. We 10 00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:36,919 Speaker 1: even have a chat that we call siblings with our 11 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:41,160 Speaker 1: good sister Alicia Garza. He's someone that I admired from afar, y'all. 12 00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:43,960 Speaker 1: And the reason for that was there are very few 13 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:47,720 Speaker 1: people in this country, and in particular really all over 14 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:51,480 Speaker 1: the world who are not afraid to take on Goliath. 15 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:54,639 Speaker 1: And when I think about Rashad, I got to tell 16 00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:58,520 Speaker 1: you I have never seen him back down from any fight. 17 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:01,760 Speaker 1: And what's best about it is he's not someone that's 18 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:04,960 Speaker 1: going out, you know, bullying folks, trying to pick a 19 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:08,480 Speaker 1: fight with, you know, whomever he can for attention. He's 20 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:13,800 Speaker 1: actually super methodical, very strategic, about how he goes forth 21 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:16,960 Speaker 1: to ensure that when he picks a battle, he will 22 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:19,479 Speaker 1: win it on the other side. And we'll talk about 23 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:22,040 Speaker 1: all of the fights that we've gotten in together, some 24 00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:24,960 Speaker 1: that I've admired from Afar and certainly cheerleading him along 25 00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:27,280 Speaker 1: the way. But he's here to talk to us today 26 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:30,640 Speaker 1: about his new book, From Presence to Power, how to 27 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:34,800 Speaker 1: take on the Fights that matter and when Rashad Robinson, 28 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:37,640 Speaker 1: I am thrilled to have this conversation with you, my brother, 29 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:40,440 Speaker 1: and so happy that you joined the podcast today. 30 00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 3: Thanks for having me, Sis. 31 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:44,440 Speaker 1: Thank you need to record that introduction and let it 32 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:45,720 Speaker 1: roll on all your tour stops. 33 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 4: We're gonna we're gonna bottle it up and we'll it'll 34 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:53,160 Speaker 4: be my walk on music. 35 00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:55,680 Speaker 1: Yes, Okay, I like it. Put a little CARDI be 36 00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 1: underneath that I'm here for. 37 00:01:58,240 --> 00:01:58,480 Speaker 3: Well. 38 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 1: I want to first just congratulate because I know how 39 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:04,640 Speaker 1: hard you worked on this book, and what I love 40 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:10,480 Speaker 1: about this story in particular is I feel like the 41 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:14,520 Speaker 1: way that you journeyed to titling the book is the 42 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:18,840 Speaker 1: same way that you take on every single battle that 43 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:23,440 Speaker 1: you've mounted against large corporations, large organizations into these people 44 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:26,120 Speaker 1: who have caused us harm. Can you talk to us 45 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:29,120 Speaker 1: a little bit about that pathway and why it was 46 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:31,680 Speaker 1: so important to you that you the narrative from the 47 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:34,760 Speaker 1: very beginning, from what we see the title that book 48 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:35,440 Speaker 1: right behind you. 49 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:39,600 Speaker 4: Why that was yeah, yeah, I mean when I was 50 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 4: thinking about how I wanted people to experience the book. 51 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:46,880 Speaker 4: The book is set up into three different sections. It's 52 00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:50,560 Speaker 4: the first section is understanding power, the section section is 53 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:52,840 Speaker 4: building power, and the third section. 54 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:53,919 Speaker 3: Is the practice of power. 55 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:57,760 Speaker 4: But in that first section there's a set of principles 56 00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:01,680 Speaker 4: that I believe everyone needs to know about to understand it, 57 00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:05,160 Speaker 4: to build it. And the first chapter is about presence 58 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:09,880 Speaker 4: and the second chapter is about power. And I fundamentally 59 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:13,919 Speaker 4: believe in this era that we sometimes mistake presence for power. 60 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:17,080 Speaker 4: So even in the cover of the book, even in 61 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 4: the cover of the book, you see how presence is faded, 62 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:24,600 Speaker 4: because presence fades. And so when people get the book, 63 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 4: if you're listening, it's an orange cover because orange is 64 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 4: about renewal and rebirth and new energy and it really 65 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:35,960 Speaker 4: represents what's required of us in this moment, I believe, 66 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 4: And the word presence is faded and the word power 67 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 4: is in bold, because power is the ability to change 68 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 4: the rules, and that's what we should be working for 69 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:50,080 Speaker 4: every day, to build power that actually helps us win 70 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 4: the type of things that change the way that society works. 71 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 4: And so I thought a lot about the title. I 72 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 4: thought a lot about the colors. 73 00:03:57,160 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 3: I thought a lot about. 74 00:03:58,240 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 4: How I wanted to frame, and then I thought a 75 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:02,680 Speaker 4: lot of about the subtitles. I talked to so many friends. 76 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 3: I was on a. 77 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:06,640 Speaker 4: Chat with you and our sister Joy and read and 78 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:09,520 Speaker 4: we were going back and forth, and I wanted people 79 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 4: to understand that this was a book how to. It 80 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:15,560 Speaker 4: was a framework that was going to help you understand 81 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 4: what was next, and so that how to take on 82 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 4: the fights that matter and win because we do have 83 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:23,320 Speaker 4: to fight, And I put win in there because we're 84 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:26,520 Speaker 4: not just in struggle. We're here to win real world 85 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:28,359 Speaker 4: victories that make people's lives better. 86 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 3: That has been at the hallmark of my work. 87 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:34,559 Speaker 4: How do we take on the fights that actually matter, 88 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:36,840 Speaker 4: not just the fights that make us feel good, and 89 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:38,800 Speaker 4: how do we set ourselves up to win as much 90 00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 4: as possible. Doesn't mean we're always gonna win, but it 91 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 4: does mean that our goal is to win. 92 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:46,160 Speaker 1: So in your introduction with Shad, you have a story 93 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:49,480 Speaker 1: about your assistant principal in middle school, and I was like, 94 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:51,119 Speaker 1: you know what this is how I know we sail 95 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:56,000 Speaker 1: it's for real because because it's always a fight. Like 96 00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:59,440 Speaker 1: my fight was with the seventh grade history teacher. She 97 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:02,160 Speaker 1: had a book. Then she had the nerve to give 98 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:05,160 Speaker 1: us the history book and it said it was two 99 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:07,760 Speaker 1: white people laying in the grass with a lamb and 100 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:10,279 Speaker 1: it said the first people were from Mesopotamia. It's me 101 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:12,919 Speaker 1: on the second day, like, ma'am, you got this wrong. 102 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 1: So time to us said a little bit about this 103 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:17,680 Speaker 1: middle school fight you took on and why you've been 104 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 1: fighting ever since? Then? 105 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:22,040 Speaker 4: Yeah, it was it was middle school and this was 106 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 4: a fight that I watched sort of from the outside 107 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:25,919 Speaker 4: as of middle schooler because it was a high school 108 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:33,280 Speaker 4: principal and he allowed he sent ten He sent ten 109 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 4: black kids to. 110 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 3: A police slne up. 111 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:40,560 Speaker 4: The police came, they wanted kids, They enacted the parents 112 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:44,880 Speaker 4: for permission, and these ten young kids were these ten 113 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 4: high schools were sent without their parents' permission to stand 114 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:51,719 Speaker 4: in a police lineup. After the incident came up, came out, 115 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:55,679 Speaker 4: it became a big issue in town. The local NAACP 116 00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 4: got involved, where my parents were lifetime members and I 117 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:02,120 Speaker 4: am a life time member, and so I watched the 118 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:04,960 Speaker 4: local ministers and the Eastern Long Island and DOAACP. 119 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:05,840 Speaker 3: So I watched. 120 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:07,920 Speaker 4: I had a front row seat to what it looked 121 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:12,440 Speaker 4: like for black infrastructure to engage and respond. The local 122 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:16,240 Speaker 4: newspaper covered it, even the New York Times covered it. 123 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:20,880 Speaker 4: It became a real issue, and I watched as we 124 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:24,760 Speaker 4: had enough power to make the issue present. We actually 125 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 4: forced some concessions. They removed him from being a history teacher, 126 00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:32,720 Speaker 4: but they I mean they removed him from being the principal, 127 00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:36,040 Speaker 4: but they made him a history teacher. So that man 128 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 4: became my high school history teacher when I got to 129 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 4: high school. He was the same history teacher that rolled 130 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 4: the TV in to the classroom and had us watch 131 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:51,680 Speaker 4: the OJ verdict and explained what the OJ verdict meant 132 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:54,920 Speaker 4: because he still had that type of power to translate 133 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 4: race issues to us. We had enough power to force 134 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:02,599 Speaker 4: some consequences, but not enough to force the full It 135 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 4: gave me sort of a full understanding, but it also 136 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 4: hearing the adults conversations, hearing what was surrounding it, gave 137 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 4: me sort of such an interest in being more involved. 138 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:18,480 Speaker 4: I ended up hosting a public access talk show in 139 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:21,440 Speaker 4: that as I grew up for four years on the 140 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 4: local public access. I led a protest of a local 141 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:29,920 Speaker 4: convenience store that wouldn't let us inside during lunch hours, 142 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:33,320 Speaker 4: and it ended up in Newsday and got to meet 143 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:36,600 Speaker 4: Hazel Duke's and Quasi and Fume and others who came 144 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:40,080 Speaker 4: to Long Island to give me an award for that work. 145 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:42,600 Speaker 3: And I learned very early on. 146 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:45,920 Speaker 4: What it meant to be able to stand with other people, 147 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:50,040 Speaker 4: to build campaigns that forced people to do things that 148 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 4: they didn't want to do, and to have a front 149 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:55,640 Speaker 4: row seat to activism. And you talked about how I'm 150 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 4: methodical about picking on fights. Well, you know, I grew 151 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:02,440 Speaker 4: up black in a community that was largely white, So 152 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:06,040 Speaker 4: you had to know how to manage and navigate. 153 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:06,920 Speaker 3: Sort of the world around you. 154 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 4: I am five three, so you you don't go out 155 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:14,600 Speaker 4: threatening fights because people may call you on it. 156 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 3: So you have to know when to use your energy. 157 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 3: You know when to show up. 158 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:21,240 Speaker 4: Uh. You know, my dad used to say, don't let 159 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 4: your alligator mouth get your twitty bird behind into trouble 160 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 4: and not He didn't always use the word behind, but 161 00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 4: but I said not to say that that, I always 162 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:36,640 Speaker 4: say that that that that that framework has given me 163 00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:39,360 Speaker 4: an understanding of how do you pick the right fights 164 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:41,720 Speaker 4: at the right time, because the goal is not just 165 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:43,679 Speaker 4: to be loud, it's to get the thing done you 166 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:46,679 Speaker 4: want to get done. And that sent me on a journey, 167 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:51,960 Speaker 4: an activist journey that you know, allowed me to figure 168 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:54,439 Speaker 4: out how to take on fights not just for myself, 169 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:57,240 Speaker 4: but for the people that I love, for my community, 170 00:08:57,360 --> 00:08:58,240 Speaker 4: and for for. 171 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 3: People who are also face saying injustice and oppression. 172 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:04,480 Speaker 1: Well, and here's I think here's the other piece, because 173 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:07,439 Speaker 1: something else you said that I don't know if everybody 174 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 1: at home caught, especially the young folks. Rashad talked about 175 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:15,920 Speaker 1: when this particular battle came up, the NAACP was front 176 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:19,199 Speaker 1: and centers. Parents are lifetime members, Rashad is a lifetime member. 177 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:22,320 Speaker 1: I am a lifetime member. But Rashad, I've also had 178 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:24,120 Speaker 1: this moment. I don't know if you ever had this, 179 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 1: but there have been times in you know, growing up, 180 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:33,439 Speaker 1: you know, running the CBC, really CBC running me, but 181 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:36,000 Speaker 1: you know, you get to this point where you're like, well, 182 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 1: are our organizations relevant, our organizations still worthy of my dues. 183 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:46,280 Speaker 1: And there's a particular moment where my godson was getting 184 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:48,559 Speaker 1: in trouble at school. He had a white teacher who 185 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:50,960 Speaker 1: didn't understand him. She said she was worried that he 186 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:54,080 Speaker 1: was quote going to cause harm to himself or others. 187 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:56,800 Speaker 1: We had a school meeting. He is five years old 188 00:09:56,840 --> 00:10:01,040 Speaker 1: at the time, you know, tiny, but he's active. He's 189 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 1: a wiggleworm, you know. And Rashat when we marched out 190 00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:07,000 Speaker 1: of this meeting pissed. We were so upset because they 191 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:11,760 Speaker 1: were basically like he would need his own individual supervisor 192 00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:14,880 Speaker 1: in class for him to stay at that school. And 193 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:16,640 Speaker 1: when we were walking out, Rashot I was like. 194 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:20,120 Speaker 3: That's okay, I'm. 195 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:22,880 Speaker 1: I gotta pay my dues, right, Like you have these 196 00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:25,679 Speaker 1: moments where you're like, okay, maybe they could just get 197 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:28,000 Speaker 1: us to the line of presents, But what is the 198 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 1: thing that could happen if I added my presence and 199 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:34,319 Speaker 1: my dues to this infrastructure. Does it then turn to 200 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:37,360 Speaker 1: a power base? Does it turn into you know, a 201 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:40,600 Speaker 1: center for us to mobilize around a coalition that we 202 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:43,040 Speaker 1: can build with the thing that I love about you 203 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:46,880 Speaker 1: is even where you've seen holes in many of our organizations, 204 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:49,160 Speaker 1: you haven't been like they're obsolete. You've been like, well, 205 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:50,880 Speaker 1: let me show you what I can do to be 206 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:52,680 Speaker 1: additive to this collective movement. 207 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:56,679 Speaker 4: And I've also felt like we have to challenge our 208 00:10:56,679 --> 00:10:58,640 Speaker 4: institutions and we have to challenge our leaders. 209 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:01,440 Speaker 3: So it's all a complicated thing. 210 00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:06,600 Speaker 4: It's not that like these organizations are sacred and they don't. 211 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:09,960 Speaker 4: And they and they they evolve over time. Right, the 212 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:12,719 Speaker 4: local NAACP was the vehicle. 213 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:13,120 Speaker 3: That we had. 214 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:15,400 Speaker 4: It was the only one of the only vehicles we 215 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:16,960 Speaker 4: had on Eastern Long Island. 216 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:18,720 Speaker 3: It was the framework that. 217 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:22,880 Speaker 4: Allowed people to come together and then the the platform 218 00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:25,880 Speaker 4: for people to aggregate their voices and make them bigger 219 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:26,880 Speaker 4: than the sum total. 220 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:28,239 Speaker 3: Right, that's important. 221 00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:33,720 Speaker 4: And and people are gonna want more out of their organizations, 222 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 4: and they're gonna want new things over time, and they're 223 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:39,280 Speaker 4: gonna want new and so I've both been a lifetime 224 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:43,520 Speaker 4: member of these organizations, and I've also led organizations that 225 00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:46,600 Speaker 4: have forced some of these groups to change how they 226 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:49,880 Speaker 4: do their work, to update some of their ways of 227 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:53,360 Speaker 4: which they leverage technology or take on different fights. And 228 00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:56,959 Speaker 4: all of that is important. I think it's incredibly important 229 00:11:57,000 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 4: in this era that we don't think that the strategies 230 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:05,560 Speaker 4: that allowed us to walk into this mess will be 231 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:07,880 Speaker 4: the strategies that we can use to walk out of it. 232 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:10,559 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think that's important too. So on that, 233 00:12:11,559 --> 00:12:14,600 Speaker 1: I do want to tell our audience about how we 234 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:17,080 Speaker 1: met and so I admired your work from Afar for 235 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:21,320 Speaker 1: a long time, and because we started talking about middle school, 236 00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:25,440 Speaker 1: I think it's important to name that I learned more 237 00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:29,680 Speaker 1: about Rashad and my admiration grew for you after the 238 00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:33,079 Speaker 1: death of Trayvon Martin, who was a young boy who 239 00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:35,640 Speaker 1: should have never lost his life to the hands of 240 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 1: a vigilante, and Rashad. Your response to that wasn't to 241 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:43,880 Speaker 1: take on George Zimmerman. Your response to that wasn't to 242 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:47,520 Speaker 1: take on Sanford, Florida. Your response to that was to 243 00:12:47,559 --> 00:12:51,760 Speaker 1: take on a law called Staniel Ground and the entity 244 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:55,480 Speaker 1: that was responsible for ensuring that law was passed in 245 00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:59,200 Speaker 1: state legislatures all over the country. That organization was called ALEX, 246 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:03,440 Speaker 1: the American legend Slated Exchange Council. And I remember, I 247 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:05,200 Speaker 1: think we might have been on rolling show together. 248 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:11,560 Speaker 4: I remember this is what I'm doing I remember, yeah, 249 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:14,240 Speaker 4: I remember this like it was yesterday. Yes, we were 250 00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:18,720 Speaker 4: like it was when he had his weekly his Washington wat. Yeah. 251 00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:22,160 Speaker 1: So we were on this show and I remember feeling 252 00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:25,440 Speaker 1: like there was something that the CBC needed to do here. 253 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:28,480 Speaker 1: But I also remember feeling like if we would have 254 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:32,080 Speaker 1: built the response to Alec and I still feel this way, 255 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:34,079 Speaker 1: like we have you know this, but we have all 256 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:37,040 Speaker 1: of these black legislators in this database, and I'm still 257 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:39,520 Speaker 1: just like, we've got to do this because we're watching 258 00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:42,320 Speaker 1: especially now we' shod then we thought it was bad, 259 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:45,800 Speaker 1: it is a gazillion times worse now. We need that 260 00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:49,000 Speaker 1: response to Alec. But we also needed to defang it, 261 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:51,160 Speaker 1: which I feel like you've done, so talk to us 262 00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:51,920 Speaker 1: a little bit about this. 263 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:55,200 Speaker 3: So yeah, I mean this goes back to this framework 264 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:56,680 Speaker 3: of presence to power. 265 00:13:56,880 --> 00:14:01,199 Speaker 4: Right the moment that people saw what had happened to 266 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:06,200 Speaker 4: Trayvon and Howard connected to them and his family and 267 00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:08,800 Speaker 4: the larger issues that we were all dealing with in 268 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:10,320 Speaker 4: the community, it was present. 269 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:11,120 Speaker 3: It was very visible. 270 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:14,280 Speaker 4: People were outraged, and yes, we fought to take on 271 00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:18,800 Speaker 4: injustice for Trayvon, but at that same time, we had 272 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:23,520 Speaker 4: been engaging in research around ALEX because ALEC wasn't just 273 00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:26,560 Speaker 4: behind the Staniard ground laws. They were also behind those 274 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:29,640 Speaker 4: discriminatory voter ID laws. They say you can vote with 275 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:32,120 Speaker 4: your gun license absentee. 276 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 1: They were trying to take out everything. 277 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:37,040 Speaker 4: You can vote with your gun license, but you can't 278 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:39,760 Speaker 4: vote with your student ID. Like they were like targeted 279 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:43,120 Speaker 4: to really prevent certain people from being able to vote, 280 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:45,800 Speaker 4: in certain people from not being able to vote. And 281 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:48,880 Speaker 4: ALEC was founded by the same guy that founded the 282 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:52,200 Speaker 4: Heritage Foundation, the Heritage Foundation which is behind Project twenty 283 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:55,560 Speaker 4: twenty five. And what ALEC does is it brings corporations 284 00:14:55,640 --> 00:14:58,760 Speaker 4: and state legislators into these private meetings and what they 285 00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:02,840 Speaker 4: do is they write legislation that benefits the corporations, and 286 00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:05,600 Speaker 4: then these state legislators are charged with going back into 287 00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:08,720 Speaker 4: their states introducing the laws and getting them passed. They're 288 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:12,680 Speaker 4: so effective sometimes that they don't even take the ALEC 289 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:15,040 Speaker 4: logo off the top of the page. They just introduce 290 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:18,840 Speaker 4: it and it still passed. Just the copy and paste 291 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:22,680 Speaker 4: and they pass all. They're behind private prisons, they're behind 292 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:26,560 Speaker 4: sort of immigrant detention centers because as I talk about 293 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:28,840 Speaker 4: in my book, and I spend a lot of time. 294 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:33,560 Speaker 4: I talk about profiteering because behind every injustice is someone 295 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:36,520 Speaker 4: profiting from it. So these corporations are not just part 296 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:38,560 Speaker 4: of ALEC for no reason. Like I remember when I 297 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:40,040 Speaker 4: reached out to Coca Cola and I was like, why 298 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:42,960 Speaker 4: y'all part of ALEC. Don't seem like y'all care much about, 299 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:46,000 Speaker 4: you know, voting rights. I thought, you guys like sponsored 300 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:50,320 Speaker 4: black people, you know, showing up, you know, in all 301 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:53,120 Speaker 4: sorts of ways. And they said, well, we are with 302 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 4: ALEC because they help us fight the discriminatory sod attacks. 303 00:15:57,320 --> 00:16:00,280 Speaker 4: So they were willing to be part of ALEX and 304 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:02,480 Speaker 4: did not care if ALEC was also trying to take 305 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:04,680 Speaker 4: away voting and they wanted to make sure that your 306 00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:07,760 Speaker 4: kids had access to soda but not water. But I 307 00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:11,040 Speaker 4: digress and all of that to say, so we end 308 00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 4: up in this. We end up in this, you know 309 00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:18,800 Speaker 4: moment where the leveraging technology and tools I have mobilized 310 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:21,240 Speaker 4: people behind the scenes to take on ALEC. 311 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:23,400 Speaker 3: We're having behind the scenes conversations with. 312 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:27,320 Speaker 4: Corporations saying, you know, you need to think differently about 313 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:28,080 Speaker 4: this investment. 314 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:30,080 Speaker 3: But we're holding our fire. 315 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:33,560 Speaker 4: We're saying you have some time to leave because these 316 00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:35,880 Speaker 4: are the moments when you have the most leverage, and 317 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:39,560 Speaker 4: leveraging campaigning is incredibly important because it gives you the 318 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:43,040 Speaker 4: ability to force the corporation to think about it. Sometimes 319 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:45,720 Speaker 4: you got folks inside, black people inside who are on 320 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:47,920 Speaker 4: your side and they're trying to fight, and so if 321 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:50,480 Speaker 4: you give them a little time. But we had some 322 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:52,800 Speaker 4: corporations that pulled out behind the scenes, and one of 323 00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 4: them was Pepsi and we had went to Pepsi and 324 00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:57,600 Speaker 4: we were like, yo, we know that you own the 325 00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:00,000 Speaker 4: Anchebama brand, which they owned at that time, and we said, 326 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:03,720 Speaker 4: look at these advertisings will put up. We'll put up 327 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:05,959 Speaker 4: some advertisings showing that you got your preventing Aunt tr 328 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:09,800 Speaker 4: Mama from being able to vote. And they were like, okay, 329 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:10,280 Speaker 4: we're out. 330 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:12,280 Speaker 3: We're out. We don't want any part of this. 331 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:14,560 Speaker 4: They left Alec and so as we were getting ready 332 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:17,000 Speaker 4: to go after Coke, because you Pepsi pulls out, you 333 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:22,720 Speaker 4: go after Coke. What happened to Trayvon Martin became visible 334 00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:26,639 Speaker 4: and we fought for justice for Trayvon, called on the 335 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:31,560 Speaker 4: Justice Department, mobilized people, supported the hoodie rallies, registered people 336 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:32,480 Speaker 4: to vote. 337 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:33,119 Speaker 3: Did all the things. 338 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:36,240 Speaker 4: And then it was like the Staniel Ground Law was 339 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:40,359 Speaker 4: written by the NRA in Walmart. Why was it written 340 00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:42,520 Speaker 4: by NRA and Walmart? Because that was going to help 341 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:46,159 Speaker 4: them sell more guns, right, and so once again this 342 00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:49,959 Speaker 4: profiteering behind all of this. And then we went and 343 00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:53,720 Speaker 4: we engaged and we mobilized, and over one hundred corporations 344 00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:57,080 Speaker 4: divested from ALEC. I met you during that time when 345 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:02,320 Speaker 4: Edelman pr was hired by ALEC to basically make me 346 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:05,160 Speaker 4: and my dimples angry black man because we were taking 347 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:06,439 Speaker 4: them on, but. 348 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:11,600 Speaker 1: We used me and right, they were like this guy 349 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:15,440 Speaker 1: and I shot you are kind of like you are 350 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:17,680 Speaker 1: kind of you, you are kind of like you will 351 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:21,159 Speaker 1: smile and becusing somebody out, so this you know, like 352 00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:26,160 Speaker 1: it's a worthy uh cause always but you will definitely 353 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:27,719 Speaker 1: be like, well let me tell you, and it's a 354 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:29,480 Speaker 1: smooth cuss out with a full smile. 355 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:32,040 Speaker 3: Well you know this is this is this is in 356 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:33,159 Speaker 3: service of our people. 357 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:38,280 Speaker 4: It is in service of our people, and so and 358 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:41,840 Speaker 4: so you know there was a strategic insight here, right. Yeah, 359 00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:44,560 Speaker 4: ninety eight percent of Alex's money at the time came 360 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:48,040 Speaker 4: from corporations who every day came to black community say, 361 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:52,200 Speaker 4: bry our products, use our services, but at night was 362 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:54,320 Speaker 4: making it harder for us to vote and making us 363 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:57,359 Speaker 4: more unsafe. We had real So we had research, we 364 00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:00,920 Speaker 4: had a strategic insight, we had media savvy, and then 365 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:04,159 Speaker 4: we had an organized constituency of black people in the 366 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:06,760 Speaker 4: allies of black people willing to take on this fight. 367 00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:09,760 Speaker 4: And so in this moment where folks were outraged about 368 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:13,879 Speaker 4: what happened, we were able to translate that presence into power. 369 00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:16,560 Speaker 4: And I talk about these stories in the book because 370 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:18,760 Speaker 4: I want us to understand and these moments that can 371 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:21,440 Speaker 4: make us outrage, and these moments that get a lot 372 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:24,800 Speaker 4: of attention, how do we use them to not just 373 00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:26,480 Speaker 4: play whack a mole, you know that game at the 374 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:28,399 Speaker 4: carnival where something pops up and you hit it down 375 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:30,679 Speaker 4: and something else. But how do we use them to 376 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:33,159 Speaker 4: actually move the energy the right way? And so what 377 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:35,920 Speaker 4: I did in the book is I put some exercises 378 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:37,520 Speaker 4: at the end of nine of the chapters. 379 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:40,000 Speaker 3: So that and I call it find. 380 00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:42,960 Speaker 4: Your Power there to find your Power section, So I 381 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:45,760 Speaker 4: want you all to find your power. And so some 382 00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:48,800 Speaker 4: of them are about finding your power in the singular 383 00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:52,960 Speaker 4: meaning you finding your power. You understanding what's at your 384 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:55,879 Speaker 4: disposal kind of what am I not thinking about in 385 00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:59,840 Speaker 4: terms of my resources to be able to be impactful 386 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:02,400 Speaker 4: the world in this moment. And then it's also about 387 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:06,400 Speaker 4: finding your power in the plural, because we know together 388 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:08,520 Speaker 4: that you have to find your people and you have 389 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:11,320 Speaker 4: to find people who have access to things that you 390 00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:14,480 Speaker 4: don't have and energy. And so that moment when we 391 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:17,479 Speaker 4: met at Roland, right, you were on the inside and 392 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:19,639 Speaker 4: I was on the outside, and we were able to 393 00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:21,960 Speaker 4: talk about and you were able to say, I have 394 00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:24,560 Speaker 4: been looking at Alec for all these years because they 395 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:27,280 Speaker 4: are doing these set of things that is making it 396 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:30,120 Speaker 4: impossible for us to do these set of things, and 397 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 4: we should talk. And that started a conversation around what 398 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:36,480 Speaker 4: does it look like to have a relationship on the 399 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:37,600 Speaker 4: inside and the outside. 400 00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:38,399 Speaker 3: And over the. 401 00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:42,080 Speaker 4: Years we've you know, both been on the inside sometimes 402 00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:46,440 Speaker 4: in the outside sometimes, but that is finding. 403 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:48,440 Speaker 3: Your people in the plural. 404 00:20:48,600 --> 00:21:01,840 Speaker 1: Yes, So here's the part that I want to ask 405 00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 1: you about in this the first activity to find your 406 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:10,600 Speaker 1: power activity you say, when have you assumed presence is power? 407 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:11,280 Speaker 3: Yeah? 408 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:16,879 Speaker 1: And I feel like generally speaking, we ask our people 409 00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:20,119 Speaker 1: to like just show up because folks are carrying so 410 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:22,400 Speaker 1: much on every side, Like if you can just put 411 00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:24,320 Speaker 1: one foot in front of the other and get to 412 00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:27,080 Speaker 1: the protest or get to this meeting, or get to 413 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:29,760 Speaker 1: this conversation, or even show up online because you know, 414 00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:32,399 Speaker 1: a lot of our activism is translated to online now. 415 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:36,119 Speaker 1: Even before COVID, people were organizing on Twitter, et cetera. 416 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:41,879 Speaker 1: So my question is, how do you tell people that 417 00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:47,480 Speaker 1: their presence is not enough, but you don't discourage them 418 00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:49,600 Speaker 1: from getting to because you have to get to presence 419 00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:51,879 Speaker 1: in order for us to have collective power. How do 420 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:55,200 Speaker 1: you thread the needle to make sure that people don't 421 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:57,399 Speaker 1: feel like, okay, so then it's not worth me showing up. 422 00:21:57,440 --> 00:21:59,840 Speaker 1: Then if my presence isn't sufficient, that's all I have 423 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:02,320 Speaker 1: right now. All I can give you is me showing up. 424 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:03,399 Speaker 1: How do you throw that needle? 425 00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:06,199 Speaker 4: The reason why this subtitle is how to take on 426 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:10,280 Speaker 4: the fights that matter, and matter is important because I 427 00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:12,200 Speaker 4: just don't want you to take on any old fight. 428 00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:17,960 Speaker 4: It goes back to me three. There's so many fights 429 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:20,840 Speaker 4: take on right so color change. I could have led 430 00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:25,040 Speaker 4: a campaign that said tell ALEC to stop, you know, 431 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:30,479 Speaker 4: stop supporting voter ID laws or tell X member of 432 00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:34,600 Speaker 4: the Tea party to stop moving stand your ground laws 433 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:36,920 Speaker 4: and that would have not been a fight that mattered. 434 00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:40,400 Speaker 4: Why because we have no leverage over those people. They 435 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:42,800 Speaker 4: were actually doing the job that they were sent there 436 00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:45,440 Speaker 4: to do. We could have had protest in front of 437 00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:48,960 Speaker 4: Alex's offices. You know, if ALEC had a protest in 438 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:51,119 Speaker 4: front of my office, I would have taken pictures of 439 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:53,680 Speaker 4: it and sent it out to my donors and said, look, 440 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:58,280 Speaker 4: we're making weight, Please give us money, right like, look, 441 00:22:58,800 --> 00:22:59,720 Speaker 4: we're doing the thing. 442 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:02,639 Speaker 3: And so it's not just showing up. 443 00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:05,120 Speaker 4: And I think that I think about this in terms 444 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:06,600 Speaker 4: of how do we help people. 445 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:07,800 Speaker 3: Use their time effectively? 446 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:11,640 Speaker 4: How do we think strategically, how do we treat people's 447 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:15,080 Speaker 4: time as valuable as we treat our own time? And 448 00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:17,359 Speaker 4: so I think about that a lot when I ask 449 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:19,760 Speaker 4: people to do things, when I ask people to take ashing, 450 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:21,600 Speaker 4: I try to explain the. 451 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:22,360 Speaker 3: Theory of change. 452 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:25,159 Speaker 4: If we get enough people to do this, then this 453 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:27,960 Speaker 4: could possibly happen. It doesn't mean that it always happens, 454 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:30,399 Speaker 4: doesn't mean we're always right, but it means that it 455 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:34,320 Speaker 4: helps us avoid the sort of magical thinking traps that 456 00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:38,040 Speaker 4: if just if we just show up, something will change 457 00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:40,760 Speaker 4: or something will happen, or if we if you're not 458 00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 4: at the table, you're on the menu, because you could 459 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:45,760 Speaker 4: be at the table and on the menu at the 460 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:48,400 Speaker 4: same time. And I want us to just be as 461 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:50,360 Speaker 4: sophisticated as possible around. 462 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:53,399 Speaker 1: That, right, having the table and on the menu at 463 00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:54,000 Speaker 1: the same. 464 00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:57,600 Speaker 4: Time, the same exact time, And that's and so I 465 00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:00,680 Speaker 4: want us to be sophisticated about that because that will 466 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:03,280 Speaker 4: help up. That will help people gain more trust for 467 00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:06,040 Speaker 4: our movements if they're. 468 00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:08,040 Speaker 1: Messing out my life right now, guys, we got to 469 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:10,800 Speaker 1: read this book. But I'm so mad because here's the thing. 470 00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:14,439 Speaker 1: I don't even hear you saying don't show up. I 471 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:17,200 Speaker 1: hear you saying, show up to the right place. Yes, 472 00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:19,880 Speaker 1: like like you're you're like. And then when you show up, 473 00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:21,720 Speaker 1: there's still some things that you have to do. But 474 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:24,880 Speaker 1: it's not any old thing, will do. No, But that's hard. 475 00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:28,680 Speaker 1: That requires us to be a lot more strategic, thoughtful, 476 00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:32,520 Speaker 1: and collaborative, which also messes up up but in a 477 00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:33,000 Speaker 1: good way. 478 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:34,240 Speaker 3: Absolutely. 479 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:36,800 Speaker 4: But on Friday night, do you just show up to 480 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:38,200 Speaker 4: any old thing because you were invited? 481 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:42,320 Speaker 2: We should treat me, you know, I don't I know, 482 00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:45,879 Speaker 2: our energy and a protest and our protest and our 483 00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:49,440 Speaker 2: gest sacred as sacred as much if we treat all 484 00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:53,840 Speaker 2: like downtime right like like this is this is real 485 00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:55,879 Speaker 2: and and that is part of. 486 00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:58,800 Speaker 1: What we are fighting for our lives though, you know. 487 00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:01,720 Speaker 3: So it's like okay for our lives, like we meet 488 00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:03,440 Speaker 3: it like okay. 489 00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:05,600 Speaker 1: This is my This is my last question because I 490 00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:07,560 Speaker 1: got to say some questions for Seattle, which we're going 491 00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:09,760 Speaker 1: to get to in a second, but I have to 492 00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:15,160 Speaker 1: ask you this in an era where we literally are 493 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:18,760 Speaker 1: fighting on every side. Voting rights members who think like 494 00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:21,439 Speaker 1: us at least ninety percent of the time are fighting 495 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:26,040 Speaker 1: for their seats. Kids are coming up, disappearing, Black people 496 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:30,440 Speaker 1: are being found lynched. Black people are out of work 497 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:34,160 Speaker 1: at record numbers. Federal government jobs, which our people told 498 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:36,760 Speaker 1: us to go get that good government job, are now 499 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:41,080 Speaker 1: at risk. How are you selecting the places to show up? 500 00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:43,560 Speaker 1: And how are you encouraging other people? Are you just 501 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:45,640 Speaker 1: like go where you feel called, but don't go everywhere? 502 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:47,760 Speaker 1: What's you're encouraging? Word there? 503 00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:50,399 Speaker 4: So you know in the book, I do outline in 504 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:53,119 Speaker 4: a number of the sections like how to, how to 505 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:56,560 Speaker 4: identify a good campaign, how to identify whether or not 506 00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:00,120 Speaker 4: you have leverage. So let's just take the example of 507 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:03,520 Speaker 4: of fighting a corporation or a business right, and this 508 00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:07,520 Speaker 4: could even go to taking on a member of Congress 509 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:11,080 Speaker 4: or an elected official. You know, when I was taking 510 00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:14,440 Speaker 4: on Facebook, you know, we had gotten to a point 511 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:16,240 Speaker 4: where we were in back. 512 00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:18,600 Speaker 3: And forth dialogue with Facebook. We didn't have. 513 00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:21,040 Speaker 4: Enough leverage to get to the c suite yet, but 514 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:24,520 Speaker 4: they did something that exposed them. Right, they had hired 515 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:27,679 Speaker 4: a PR firm to attack me and the organization, and 516 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:29,879 Speaker 4: it got exposed in the New York Times. And so 517 00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:35,040 Speaker 4: now I am like, oh, wow, I have leverage. What 518 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:38,480 Speaker 4: do we do with that leverage? That looks different? Cheryl 519 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:40,840 Speaker 4: Sandberg calls me, we want you to meet with Mark 520 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:43,280 Speaker 4: Zuckerberg and we want and I'm like, okay, well, I 521 00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:46,120 Speaker 4: will only meet with you guys for now on because 522 00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:48,560 Speaker 4: you all have done this thing, and now I have leverage, 523 00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:50,679 Speaker 4: and now the media wants to know what's happening next. 524 00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:52,720 Speaker 4: So now we have a new set of power, and 525 00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:55,200 Speaker 4: you use that power differently. So then we go out 526 00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:58,800 Speaker 4: to Menlo Park to meet with Chryl and Mark, and 527 00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:02,680 Speaker 4: they asked me to sign it, and I say no, 528 00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:04,440 Speaker 4: because I have. 529 00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:05,439 Speaker 3: Leverage in this moment. 530 00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:08,080 Speaker 4: They give me a big badge that says no NDA 531 00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:10,480 Speaker 4: on it that I have to wear around their offices. 532 00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:13,760 Speaker 4: And so I'm wearing no NDA badge on my suit 533 00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:16,239 Speaker 4: because I wore a suit to their office and they 534 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:17,040 Speaker 4: know everybody else. 535 00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:22,360 Speaker 3: Was in fleece and black shirts and T shirts. 536 00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:25,320 Speaker 4: And you know what was interesting is that I learned 537 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:28,760 Speaker 4: and I kind of help the reader understand, is how 538 00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:31,560 Speaker 4: do you know whether or not you're in a dialogue 539 00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:35,480 Speaker 4: or a negotiation. Your target wants to keep you in 540 00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:38,040 Speaker 4: a dialogue. They want to be able to say, and 541 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:40,320 Speaker 4: this is what I mean by just showing up. They 542 00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:41,919 Speaker 4: want to be able to say, well, we're talking with 543 00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:44,879 Speaker 4: those black people. We're having conversations with them. You know, 544 00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:46,120 Speaker 4: we heard their concern. 545 00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:48,679 Speaker 1: It was not so exciting to just go to the meeting. 546 00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:51,719 Speaker 4: Yes, and so it's like, go to the meeting, right. So, 547 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:55,640 Speaker 4: but if you have but if you have leverage, now 548 00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:58,880 Speaker 4: you're in a negotiation. And a negotiation doesn't mean you're 549 00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:01,280 Speaker 4: going to win anything everything, but it means that you 550 00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:04,440 Speaker 4: are on the pathway to actually getting something. Because those 551 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:07,639 Speaker 4: folks have to do something different, then simply be in 552 00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:11,280 Speaker 4: a dialogue with you. You have demands for the condition 553 00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:14,520 Speaker 4: of the meeting. You have things that you will will 554 00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:17,479 Speaker 4: or won't say coming out of the meeting. You know, 555 00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:20,320 Speaker 4: so when they asked me to sign the NDA, I 556 00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:23,600 Speaker 4: said no. I represent a constituency of black people that 557 00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:25,440 Speaker 4: are going to want to know what happened in this meeting. 558 00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:27,239 Speaker 4: When I leave out, They're going to want to know 559 00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:29,600 Speaker 4: did I accept money. They're going to want to know 560 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:33,679 Speaker 4: what you'd offered and didn't offer to the community because 561 00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:36,480 Speaker 4: of what's happening with the algorithms, and what's happening with 562 00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:39,040 Speaker 4: voting rights and all the other things on your platform. 563 00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:42,480 Speaker 4: And so in each of our situations, right, it's not 564 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,400 Speaker 4: enough to just show up to the party. It's not 565 00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:48,480 Speaker 4: enough to be heard. Our job is not to be heard, 566 00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:52,600 Speaker 4: it's to be heated. It's for our demands to be understood. 567 00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:55,600 Speaker 4: It's to have enough leverage to win things. And so 568 00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:58,280 Speaker 4: how to take on the fights that matter and win 569 00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:01,640 Speaker 4: is part of the presence power framework, because we want 570 00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:04,160 Speaker 4: to win and we don't just want to show up. 571 00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:06,640 Speaker 4: Sometimes I see people at the end of their emails 572 00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:09,320 Speaker 4: and this is not an attack on anyone because sometimes 573 00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:11,840 Speaker 4: my friends and they'll be in their emails signiture they'll 574 00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:15,960 Speaker 4: say things like in struggle. And my hope is that no, 575 00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:19,600 Speaker 4: we're not in struct Let's not be in struggle, Let's 576 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:20,320 Speaker 4: be in winning. 577 00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:22,720 Speaker 3: That's what our people need us. 578 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:26,640 Speaker 4: Our people need us to be focused on winning as 579 00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:29,479 Speaker 4: many things as possible. So the book that I'm offering 580 00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:32,640 Speaker 4: is a new framework of possibility. It's for all of 581 00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:35,320 Speaker 4: us that are tired of losing and want to win 582 00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:38,080 Speaker 4: more things. It's a twenty first century framework that talks 583 00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:42,160 Speaker 4: very clearly about profiteering, talks clearly about big tech, but 584 00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:45,520 Speaker 4: offers lessons and exercises along the way. So hopefully it's 585 00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:48,160 Speaker 4: a book that you buy and you also give to someone. 586 00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:50,280 Speaker 4: You give it to your friends, you give it to 587 00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:52,720 Speaker 4: your family, you give it to anybody who's like, what 588 00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:54,160 Speaker 4: should we be doing in this moment? 589 00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:56,600 Speaker 3: Should I be shown up to this protest? Should I 590 00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:57,480 Speaker 3: be doing this thing? 591 00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:00,160 Speaker 4: And if you're asking those questions, it needs a You 592 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:02,160 Speaker 4: want to do something, but you want to know that 593 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:04,800 Speaker 4: what you're doing matters, and that is the goal. And 594 00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:05,840 Speaker 4: you know you and I are going to be in 595 00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:08,040 Speaker 4: conversations and we're going to be doing. I'm going to 596 00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:10,120 Speaker 4: be in comfortable with so many people around the country, 597 00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:12,880 Speaker 4: and I hope people will visit from Presence to Power 598 00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:16,840 Speaker 4: dot com and really join us in this, in this, 599 00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:17,760 Speaker 4: in this journey. 600 00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:21,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's I think that's the key. So for 601 00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:24,960 Speaker 1: you all listening again, this is Rashad Robinson, a new 602 00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:28,480 Speaker 1: author fantastic book from Presence to Power, how to take 603 00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:31,840 Speaker 1: on the Fights that matter and when. Also, my brother, 604 00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:36,280 Speaker 1: I cannot wait to welcome you to Seattle. We're shot 605 00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:37,160 Speaker 1: what Dana, We're doing. 606 00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:42,280 Speaker 4: We're doing August fifth in Seattle, August seven at seven 607 00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:46,560 Speaker 4: pm at count Out Hall. I look forward to coming 608 00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:49,440 Speaker 4: to Seattle. I hope for some good salmon when I'm 609 00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:53,760 Speaker 4: out there, definitely, and some West Coast oysters, but mostly 610 00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:56,480 Speaker 4: I look forward to being in conversation with you and 611 00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:58,640 Speaker 4: the community of folks in Seattle about that. 612 00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:01,520 Speaker 1: Don't embarrass me. So this out, Okay. 613 00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:03,520 Speaker 3: I want people to come out. I want people to 614 00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:04,640 Speaker 3: take the exercises. 615 00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:07,480 Speaker 4: By the time we get to August fifth, people will 616 00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:10,240 Speaker 4: have hopefully bought the book and we'll be now trying 617 00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:12,920 Speaker 4: to bring someone along with them to hear the conversation 618 00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:16,760 Speaker 4: and to hear about how we build the kind of 619 00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:21,640 Speaker 4: multi racial, multi class agenda that's going to force change 620 00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:25,800 Speaker 4: to happen. That's gonna take on profiteers in corporate power. 621 00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:31,840 Speaker 4: That's the that's the opportunity. August fifth, SEATTLEPM. I want 622 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:34,160 Speaker 4: to thank the Stranger for helping us promote it and 623 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:35,800 Speaker 4: all all the folks who are going to show up. 624 00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:39,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, I love it so August fifth Town Hall, Seattle 625 00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:42,600 Speaker 1: for you all who are listening. You can pre order 626 00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:45,440 Speaker 1: the book now, but it is out next Tuesday, July 627 00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:48,360 Speaker 1: twenty eighth. Again, from Presence to Power, how to take 628 00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:52,000 Speaker 1: on the fights that matter and when, So we want 629 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:54,120 Speaker 1: to make sure we support the book, y'all. Buy them out, 630 00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:57,640 Speaker 1: get them on that New York Times bestsellers list, Seattle, Washington. 631 00:31:57,680 --> 00:31:59,320 Speaker 1: I want to see you on August fifth with my 632 00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:02,520 Speaker 1: brother Rashelle will be in conversation. Rashad never backs away 633 00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:05,560 Speaker 1: from a question, so bring your very best questions. He's 634 00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:08,400 Speaker 1: got answers and I can't wait to host the conversation. Brother, 635 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:10,240 Speaker 1: love you. I'm excited about this. 636 00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:11,360 Speaker 3: Is thank you, looking forward to it. 637 00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:17,560 Speaker 1: Welcome home, y'all, it's been real. Till next time. 638 00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:42,720 Speaker 5: Be so. 639 00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:35,400 Speaker 1: Native Lampard is a production of iHeart Radio and partnership 640 00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:39,000 Speaker 1: with Reising Choice Media. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit 641 00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:41,880 Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 642 00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:43,080 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.