1
00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:02,760
Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Cool People Did Cool Stuff, the

2
00:00:02,840 --> 00:00:05,280
Speaker 1: podcast that doesn't have a tagline because the title conveys

3
00:00:05,320 --> 00:00:08,920
Speaker 1: the general purpose well enough on its own. I'm your host,

4
00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:14,160
Speaker 1: Margaret Kiljoy, and with me today is Shrine Uness who rules. Hi, Shrine, Thanks,

5
00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:17,680
Speaker 1: thanks for thinking I rule. I'm hi, I'm good. Hi.

6
00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:22,360
Speaker 1: Are you all right? Good to know you're hi? Cool? Okay,

7
00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:26,079
Speaker 1: moving up? Sharin? You you make stuff? What kind of

8
00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:29,600
Speaker 1: stuff do you make? I make films. I make even

9
00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:33,320
Speaker 1: saying art is weird quote unquote art. Yeah, I just

10
00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:36,200
Speaker 1: make things. I just made a film like a little culte,

11
00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:38,680
Speaker 1: like a video essay thing that I think is not

12
00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:40,680
Speaker 1: too bad, which is a lot because I hate everything

13
00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:44,960
Speaker 1: I do. But yeah, it's I just make things. I

14
00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:50,760
Speaker 1: make things cool. I appreciate that today we are running

15
00:00:50,760 --> 00:00:54,720
Speaker 1: without a producer. Oh yeah means to men, means we

16
00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:57,720
Speaker 1: can say anything we want. This goes heywire. That's why.

17
00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:05,000
Speaker 1: So the way they build the Moltoft cocktail is and

18
00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:11,560
Speaker 1: then you oh really yeah yeah no, it's it's different

19
00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:13,720
Speaker 1: than people in my thing And the most important thing

20
00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:22,679
Speaker 1: is no matter what never ever, Ian as our audio

21
00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:29,000
Speaker 1: engineer and on woman, wrote or theme music. So Sharine Margaret,

22
00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:34,880
Speaker 1: did you know that a lot of people are queer, gay, lesbian, bisexual, trans,

23
00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:37,920
Speaker 1: two spirit asexual intersects or otherwise don't line up into

24
00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:40,760
Speaker 1: the nice heterosexual binary sex system that Western society tries

25
00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:43,520
Speaker 1: to fit everyone into. I do know that. I do

26
00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:47,880
Speaker 1: you know that? Excellent? Well that will make this conversation.

27
00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:51,720
Speaker 1: Was like, no, what do you mean? Yeah, you're like

28
00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:56,800
Speaker 1: one man and one woman. Yeah, did you know that

29
00:01:56,840 --> 00:02:00,440
Speaker 1: some people don't like that? Were like that, like they

30
00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:05,200
Speaker 1: don't like queer people? Yeah? Yeah, I think they. I mean,

31
00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:08,680
Speaker 1: I think everyone is on the queer spectrum. Even the

32
00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:11,760
Speaker 1: people that say they hate they hate it because they

33
00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:15,639
Speaker 1: are on it. Yeah. I think that's fairly true. Yeah.

34
00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:19,760
Speaker 1: I remember the first time of a gay friend of

35
00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:22,880
Speaker 1: mine sat me down, was like, the reason people say

36
00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:24,960
Speaker 1: the sexuality is a choice is that for them it's

37
00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:29,960
Speaker 1: a choice. Who oh my god, well, how I never

38
00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:35,359
Speaker 1: thought of that. That is very very good point. Yeah, friend, Well,

39
00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:38,160
Speaker 1: today we're going to talk about some of the queer

40
00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:40,160
Speaker 1: people who did something about the people who don't like

41
00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:44,720
Speaker 1: queer people. Hell yeah, it will eventually get to Molltop cocktails. Actually,

42
00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:50,160
Speaker 1: although this is our first four partner on the show. Um,

43
00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:54,240
Speaker 1: it felt timely to talk about this stuff, and I

44
00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:56,160
Speaker 1: couldn't find a simple way to do it. So it's

45
00:02:56,240 --> 00:02:59,919
Speaker 1: four parts, so it's going me by the end of

46
00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:05,560
Speaker 1: So buckle up, strap in, folks. Yeah, today we're going

47
00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:07,720
Speaker 1: to talk about how in June nineteen sixty nine, in

48
00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:10,959
Speaker 1: Greenwich Village in New York City, someone bit a cop

49
00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:13,160
Speaker 1: so hard that the cop had to go to the

50
00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:17,120
Speaker 1: hospital and the gay Pride movement was born. Wow, wish

51
00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:20,160
Speaker 1: that was me. That is amazing. I know, I want

52
00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:21,920
Speaker 1: to bite a cop so hard that he just like

53
00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:25,720
Speaker 1: loses an arm. That is amazing, just zombie a cop. Yeah,

54
00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:31,519
Speaker 1: today we're gonna talk about motherfucking Stonewall. And by today

55
00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:33,640
Speaker 1: I mean in this four part series that will encompass

56
00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:37,120
Speaker 1: both this week and next week. You have you heard

57
00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:40,120
Speaker 1: much about Stonewall? Yeah, I've heard of it. It's a

58
00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:43,520
Speaker 1: thing that was really important. Yeah, it was. It was

59
00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:47,839
Speaker 1: a very important thing. And before we get into it,

60
00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:51,680
Speaker 1: we're gonna use my favorite thing in the world, context

61
00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:54,440
Speaker 1: aka backstory, or as I call it when I'm talking

62
00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:57,920
Speaker 1: about my show, to my friend's side quests. Oh wow,

63
00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:01,560
Speaker 1: a lot of side quests today, tomorrow, next, Monday and

64
00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:06,080
Speaker 1: next Wednesday. It's good to understand the main quest. How

65
00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:09,000
Speaker 1: else are I'm going to understand it? I know exactly

66
00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:15,800
Speaker 1: that L adds flavor, and I don't know. So there's

67
00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:18,200
Speaker 1: two things that regular listeners are probably tired of hearing

68
00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:21,599
Speaker 1: me say. First, queer people have always been here. Second,

69
00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:23,640
Speaker 1: the ways in which we define things like same sex

70
00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:26,400
Speaker 1: attraction and having a gender identity or presentation different from

71
00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:30,000
Speaker 1: your sex assigned at birth. Those definitions are socially constructed,

72
00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:34,480
Speaker 1: and they change over time. The concepts of homosexuality and heterosexuality,

73
00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:37,280
Speaker 1: for example, in the Western context, were invented in the

74
00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:39,719
Speaker 1: late nineteenth century, and a lot of who we're going

75
00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:44,640
Speaker 1: to be talking about today would not don't map to

76
00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:48,159
Speaker 1: today's definitions and labels, or didn't at the time, but

77
00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:51,120
Speaker 1: are still alive today, or were alive recently and then

78
00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:53,200
Speaker 1: like later talked about it. So it's like we're going

79
00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:55,080
Speaker 1: to talk about like a lot of for example, like

80
00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:59,400
Speaker 1: drag queens, many of whom would have identified as gay men,

81
00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:02,480
Speaker 1: many of whom later identified as trans women. We're going

82
00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:05,840
Speaker 1: to talk about transvestites, which is a word that a

83
00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:08,240
Speaker 1: lot of people don't use anymore, but a lot of

84
00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:10,440
Speaker 1: people used at the time. I used to use for

85
00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:12,840
Speaker 1: myself actually before I came out as trans, because I

86
00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:15,160
Speaker 1: consider myself across dresser for a very long time who

87
00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:18,720
Speaker 1: just happened to have a woman's name and never not

88
00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:22,920
Speaker 1: wear women's clothes, you know. So things are different and

89
00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:27,159
Speaker 1: they change. That's my that's my background. In our episode

90
00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:30,839
Speaker 1: about gay resistance to fascism, that was with you, I think,

91
00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:33,960
Speaker 1: wasn't it. I think, yeah, we talked about all the

92
00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:36,479
Speaker 1: yeah they ruled everyone should go back and listen to that.

93
00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:38,680
Speaker 1: That was a good one. I love being here for

94
00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:43,640
Speaker 1: the gay ship, that's share. But yeah. So we talked

95
00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:46,400
Speaker 1: about some of the earliest homophile organizations as they might

96
00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:49,000
Speaker 1: have called themselves, and we talked about how they were

97
00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:53,360
Speaker 1: violently repressed under the Nazis and how they didn't they

98
00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:58,680
Speaker 1: also violently unrepressed against the Nazis when they could. We

99
00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:01,360
Speaker 1: talked about queer people were putting to camps, and about

100
00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:04,760
Speaker 1: how kind of importantly at the end of the war

101
00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:09,000
Speaker 1: when the camps were liberated, both the capitalist block and

102
00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:12,200
Speaker 1: the Soviet Block immediately through the queer prisoners back into

103
00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:16,640
Speaker 1: prison because being gay was illegal and ikey and whatever

104
00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:20,640
Speaker 1: that's where we left off. We're going to pick up

105
00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:24,400
Speaker 1: that thread with the Cold War nineteen forties America just

106
00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:28,240
Speaker 1: after World War Two. It's gonna be a situation that

107
00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:30,560
Speaker 1: is going to be completely unfamiliar to the modern audience.

108
00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:35,520
Speaker 1: Acceptance of gay gay lifestyles was flourishing in some places,

109
00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:41,000
Speaker 1: especially Yeah wow, yeah extus to me. Actually, well, that's

110
00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:42,520
Speaker 1: actually kind of one of the things is that, like

111
00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:47,480
Speaker 1: we have this way of talking about gayness as if

112
00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:50,800
Speaker 1: it was like everything was bad and then someone threw

113
00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:53,080
Speaker 1: a brick at a cop at a place called Stonewall

114
00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:56,599
Speaker 1: and everything became good, you know. But so acceptance of

115
00:06:56,600 --> 00:07:00,599
Speaker 1: gay lifestyles was flourishing in cities, while I'm Arican culture

116
00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:03,800
Speaker 1: more broadly was moving in a more conservative direction. So

117
00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:05,760
Speaker 1: everything got set up for conflict. So the cops and

118
00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:07,640
Speaker 1: all that shit are getting more and more conservative, and

119
00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:09,920
Speaker 1: the government's getting more and more conservative. But more and

120
00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:12,000
Speaker 1: more gay bars are opening, more and more people are

121
00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:13,880
Speaker 1: finding each other, and more and more people are starting

122
00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:16,360
Speaker 1: to be like, there's literally nothing wrong with who I

123
00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:18,040
Speaker 1: am except for the fact that the cops ain't me.

124
00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:20,960
Speaker 1: I mean that sounds like present day, like it sounds

125
00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:25,040
Speaker 1: like we're still doing that. So yeah, a number of

126
00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:29,840
Speaker 1: fucking just one to one comparisons about what's happening right now.

127
00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:33,520
Speaker 1: It's people don't change. It feels like history just repeats

128
00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:36,440
Speaker 1: itself or just like stays the same rather even end

129
00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:43,400
Speaker 1: and start again. It just like keeps yes sackness, Yeah, totally. Well,

130
00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:47,960
Speaker 1: you know, a little tiny micro loops. Right, so we'll

131
00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:51,680
Speaker 1: talk about some of this conflict we've all heard of

132
00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:55,560
Speaker 1: the Red Scare. Really there were two reds maybe the podcast?

133
00:07:55,840 --> 00:07:57,600
Speaker 1: Sorry what if I all thought it was a podcast

134
00:07:57,640 --> 00:08:00,480
Speaker 1: is not an actual thing. I'm I'm kidding, I'm kidding. Wait,

135
00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:06,120
Speaker 1: what's the podcast? Uh, I've never listened to it. To

136
00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:08,080
Speaker 1: be fair, I just I kind of make fun of

137
00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:11,880
Speaker 1: it a lot. This is part's a podcast with it's

138
00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:14,400
Speaker 1: not really historical. It's just like a it's just a

139
00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:17,120
Speaker 1: podcast with two gals. And that's all I'm gonna say

140
00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:21,600
Speaker 1: about that, because I don't want to get it all right, Yeah,

141
00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:24,720
Speaker 1: fair enough, Well there's I was going to say there's

142
00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:26,480
Speaker 1: two and a half Red Scares, but there's actually three

143
00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:28,080
Speaker 1: and a half because one of them is a podcast.

144
00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:34,720
Speaker 1: The first Red Scare was nineteen seventeen to nineteen twenty

145
00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:37,800
Speaker 1: when the US freaked out about the Russian Revolution and

146
00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:42,160
Speaker 1: they started deporting the anarchists, which is funny because at

147
00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:45,080
Speaker 1: the same time the Russian Bolsheviks also were freaked out

148
00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:49,960
Speaker 1: about the anarchists and we're shooting them. Wow. And so

149
00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:53,040
Speaker 1: they passed the US past this anti Anarchist Sedition Act

150
00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:56,120
Speaker 1: of nineteen eighteen, which is part of why I'm very

151
00:08:56,200 --> 00:09:00,480
Speaker 1: mad that people are calling the January six rioters seditionists

152
00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:04,200
Speaker 1: because I literally have the word sedition tattooed on my knuckles.

153
00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:07,319
Speaker 1: Oh my god, you do, Oh my god, she does.

154
00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:10,600
Speaker 1: I'm looking at her knuckles now in the camera. I

155
00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:13,280
Speaker 1: did not know you had that tattoo. Yeah, I got

156
00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:17,600
Speaker 1: it a while ago. That's hilarious. As so mad when

157
00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:22,960
Speaker 1: they started calling anyway um sedition being the crime of

158
00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:26,960
Speaker 1: speaking against the government essentially, which is they called they

159
00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:29,880
Speaker 1: called January six people that I didn't realize they would

160
00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:32,599
Speaker 1: call it. That's not that's stupid, I know. I know.

161
00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:37,080
Speaker 1: Also during this Red Scare, there was the Palmer Raids

162
00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:39,760
Speaker 1: which made use of UM. Did you know that in

163
00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:42,160
Speaker 1: the United States it is still illegal to be a

164
00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:46,079
Speaker 1: foreign born anarchist? What about so you can be a

165
00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:51,560
Speaker 1: national National National Yeah, nation board are anarch Yeah. Because

166
00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:54,640
Speaker 1: of free speech, it's legal to be born in the

167
00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:59,439
Speaker 1: US and become an anarchist. But um, there's this law,

168
00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:03,440
Speaker 1: the Immigration Act of nineteen oh three that specifically is

169
00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:06,640
Speaker 1: like kick out all of the foreign born anarchists. That

170
00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:09,200
Speaker 1: is so interesting. I did not know that. It's like

171
00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:12,480
Speaker 1: you can be It's the line they draw as far

172
00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:15,480
Speaker 1: as where you're born is like anarchy and president that's

173
00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:19,880
Speaker 1: what it sounds like. And so it's not enforced anymore,

174
00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:23,760
Speaker 1: but it'll be interesting because it's still on the books.

175
00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:28,600
Speaker 1: And so anyway, they raid and deport a bunch of people,

176
00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:31,960
Speaker 1: and immediately people are like, that's an infringement of free speech.

177
00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:35,679
Speaker 1: Even at the time people are like, I don't think

178
00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:37,400
Speaker 1: you're allowed to do that. In the government's like we

179
00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:41,079
Speaker 1: don't care, you know, and we get it into a bit.

180
00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:42,720
Speaker 1: If you want to hear more about this in the

181
00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:45,280
Speaker 1: birth control episodes we did last year with Katie Stole,

182
00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:49,320
Speaker 1: then you get the mini Red Scare, the half red Scare,

183
00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:52,199
Speaker 1: or as I like to call it, or at least

184
00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:54,839
Speaker 1: I wrote it into the script, the Red Thrill, because

185
00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:57,800
Speaker 1: the thrill feels like a half scare. Right, Oh yeah

186
00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:00,400
Speaker 1: it does good. Yeah, good call on that. Thank you,

187
00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:04,280
Speaker 1: thank you. This one was exclusive to New York City.

188
00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:07,280
Speaker 1: It took place in nineteen between nineteen forty nineteen forty two.

189
00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:12,120
Speaker 1: And it's particularly funny that this happened because overall during

190
00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:15,280
Speaker 1: these years, there was some other stuff happening in the

191
00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:18,840
Speaker 1: world right between. That's why I'm surprised. I mean, I

192
00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:22,800
Speaker 1: guess like when you you forget that other stuff was happening, though,

193
00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:25,200
Speaker 1: when you only know that it was like World War two,

194
00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:28,400
Speaker 1: I forget that there was other stuff happening because it

195
00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:32,120
Speaker 1: sounds like the whole world was doing this was in

196
00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:36,040
Speaker 1: World War two, because but um, it's interesting to hear

197
00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:38,280
Speaker 1: that this was all happening at the same time, I know.

198
00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:41,200
Speaker 1: And it's particularly interesting because at the time, the USSR

199
00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:46,000
Speaker 1: was the United States's ally. Oh my god, and so

200
00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:47,800
Speaker 1: it was like actually a time when like even the

201
00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:51,720
Speaker 1: government was like, like, we don't trust communists, but they're

202
00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:54,959
Speaker 1: not our enemy. The Nazis are. Well what a time

203
00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:59,000
Speaker 1: unless you're in New York City. It's called the rap

204
00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:04,000
Speaker 1: Cod Codare Committee. It's a name of two people. Basically,

205
00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:06,920
Speaker 1: they investigated the public universities to make sure they didn't

206
00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:10,959
Speaker 1: find any pinko's teaching kids, and refusing to testify before

207
00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:16,200
Speaker 1: this committee was grounds for immediate firing. And they got

208
00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:18,920
Speaker 1: one ex communist to read out fifty four other teachers

209
00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:22,880
Speaker 1: and whoa, if you're the word pinko much. I really

210
00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:25,319
Speaker 1: liked this word. No you said it, and I was

211
00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:27,160
Speaker 1: going to just pretend I what you what you meant,

212
00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:30,640
Speaker 1: but please explain it, okay. So pinko is this pejorative

213
00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:34,160
Speaker 1: word for communist, and it's it's an old timey word.

214
00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:39,480
Speaker 1: It's our like grandparents pejorative word for communist, and it

215
00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:43,440
Speaker 1: goes back to nineteen twenty five, I think, um, but

216
00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:46,720
Speaker 1: it actually being like pink salons was a way to

217
00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:51,240
Speaker 1: talk shit on communist gathering places even before that. And

218
00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:54,439
Speaker 1: they used pink because it's for two reasons. One, it's

219
00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:56,800
Speaker 1: a softer shade of red, and therefore these are like

220
00:12:56,840 --> 00:13:00,920
Speaker 1: the soft communists, the socialists. And so that we can

221
00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:02,760
Speaker 1: understand how this ties into why am I talking with

222
00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:05,400
Speaker 1: the red scares. If we're talking about anti gayshit they

223
00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:09,839
Speaker 1: basically we're calling all the socialists gays. They were being

224
00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:14,679
Speaker 1: like these effeminate men, these like pink men. That's so interesting,

225
00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:21,040
Speaker 1: and communism is effeminate. Yeah, you know, nothing's effeminate like

226
00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:27,400
Speaker 1: seizing the means of production, Yeah, exactly, or like millions

227
00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:31,680
Speaker 1: of you charging German tanks. Yeah, I mean like whatever

228
00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:35,840
Speaker 1: that is. Gays did that too, but like, yeah, it's interesting.

229
00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:38,480
Speaker 1: I did not know that. Yeah. No. And it's like

230
00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:42,000
Speaker 1: one of the politicians who liked using the word pinko

231
00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:44,160
Speaker 1: in the twenties, I think he would. Basically he had

232
00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:46,920
Speaker 1: these quotes about how like these soft handed men they

233
00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:49,800
Speaker 1: were working, but they didn't use their hands, you know,

234
00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:53,520
Speaker 1: just funny because guys, we know how to use our hands.

235
00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:58,199
Speaker 1: And Okay, I know you were thinking, you're thinking, can

236
00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:01,240
Speaker 1: Margaret tie the UNI bomber into this supisode? I think

237
00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:05,400
Speaker 1: exactly what I was thinking. Actually the answer is yes, wow,

238
00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:09,520
Speaker 1: please continue. Yeah, okay, cool. This one I'm gonna be

239
00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:14,120
Speaker 1: This one is from my memory of being involved in

240
00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:17,400
Speaker 1: social movements and not something I can directly source. Ted

241
00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:20,320
Speaker 1: Kazinski the unibomber, he goes to jail, and for a

242
00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:23,440
Speaker 1: while a bunch of environmentalists supported him because he was

243
00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:27,120
Speaker 1: trying to dismantle industrial civilization and all of that stuff.

244
00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:30,720
Speaker 1: But then he wrote this like public letter complaining about

245
00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:34,880
Speaker 1: pinko's and one publisher was like, oh, we can't use that.

246
00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:39,080
Speaker 1: That's an anti gay word, and Uncle Ted was like, what, No,

247
00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:41,960
Speaker 1: it's not about gays. It's an anti communist word. I

248
00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:44,120
Speaker 1: hate the left, and while I'm at it, I hate

249
00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:46,600
Speaker 1: gay people too, But that's not why I said it.

250
00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:51,160
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I did not know that even half it. Yeah,

251
00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:54,400
Speaker 1: it's incredible, that's incredible, and I'm paraphrasing this, so please

252
00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:57,840
Speaker 1: don't assume me, mister unibomber. That's so funny that like

253
00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:00,160
Speaker 1: it's like, no, it's not the hates through the you

254
00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:02,280
Speaker 1: think it is. It's the other hatesler or is the same.

255
00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:05,080
Speaker 1: I don't know it. Of course I hate that minority,

256
00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:09,520
Speaker 1: but that's not what I was saying right now, Yeah, exactly. Yeah,

257
00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:12,640
Speaker 1: back to the mini red scare. I just wanted to

258
00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:16,080
Speaker 1: talk about pinkos as a word. We should bring it back.

259
00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:18,800
Speaker 1: I mean, I maybe other people know about it. I

260
00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:22,440
Speaker 1: had never really heard it, So you have educated me.

261
00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:26,480
Speaker 1: I'm sure someone else is like me, being like, oh wow,

262
00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:33,200
Speaker 1: new word that we can all use. Yep. So it

263
00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:35,400
Speaker 1: wasn't illegal to be in the Communist Party this time,

264
00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:38,680
Speaker 1: but the main reason they had this mini red scare.

265
00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:41,360
Speaker 1: It was pretty much to destroy the teachers union, and

266
00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:44,920
Speaker 1: they fired more than four hundred union teachers and blacklisted

267
00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:48,640
Speaker 1: them because they were teaching things that they didn't want

268
00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:52,040
Speaker 1: them to teach. Yeah, because they like possibly had any

269
00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:55,400
Speaker 1: like leftist inclinations at all. And this of course meant

270
00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:58,280
Speaker 1: firing the first black faculty member ever hired by a

271
00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:01,280
Speaker 1: New York City public college, whose name was Max Jurgan.

272
00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:04,040
Speaker 1: And to tie everything into what's happening now in this

273
00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:06,800
Speaker 1: case in Florida, he was teaching a class called Negro

274
00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:10,760
Speaker 1: History and Culture at City College of New York. So

275
00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:16,320
Speaker 1: you know what we're like, nineteen forty to nineteen forty two, okay, Yeah,

276
00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:19,600
Speaker 1: so he gets fired basically for teaching black studies. Well,

277
00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:24,920
Speaker 1: and also it was also an anti gay panic. The

278
00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:27,800
Speaker 1: judge said about why it was important to fire teachers

279
00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:30,440
Speaker 1: who teach that being gay is okay, that the court

280
00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:34,400
Speaker 1: will quote not tolerate academic freedom being used as a

281
00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:37,560
Speaker 1: cloak to promote the popularization in the minds of adolescence

282
00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:41,400
Speaker 1: of acts forbidden by the penal law. Penal law. That

283
00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:44,080
Speaker 1: was funny. I know what, I know what you need,

284
00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:46,040
Speaker 1: but it's funny just to hear it in that the

285
00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:48,840
Speaker 1: end of that sentence. Uh yeah, what I said earlier,

286
00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:55,480
Speaker 1: history repeats itself in just different clothing. Yep. What I

287
00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:58,480
Speaker 1: came up with while writing this was, you know, people

288
00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:00,600
Speaker 1: say that history doesn't repeat it ryan times, but then

289
00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:02,560
Speaker 1: I actually think it's more like we just keep going

290
00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:06,320
Speaker 1: back to the chorus, Yeah, where the verse has changed,

291
00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:09,240
Speaker 1: and then the chorus of kill all the minorities keeps

292
00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:11,879
Speaker 1: coming on. I love that That's exactly what it is.

293
00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:15,400
Speaker 1: It's also it's maybe it's even just like you mess

294
00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:16,840
Speaker 1: up and you have to go back to the beginning,

295
00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:18,879
Speaker 1: and then you keep like messing up different places, so

296
00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:21,000
Speaker 1: you go back to the beginning. Oh my god, civil

297
00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:28,800
Speaker 1: rights is groundhog Day. Yeah, exactly. Fuck. The bronx Borough

298
00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:34,080
Speaker 1: president said, quote, the colleges would either be godly colleges

299
00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:41,119
Speaker 1: American colleges, or they would be closed. Well, good old America.

300
00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:44,640
Speaker 1: That was red Scare one point five. Now it's talking

301
00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:47,320
Speaker 1: about the big one, Red scare two point zero. Mm.

302
00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:49,520
Speaker 1: The second red scare is the one that most people

303
00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:51,919
Speaker 1: know about. If someone says the red scare, they probably

304
00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:54,160
Speaker 1: mean the second one. This is the one that gets

305
00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:58,200
Speaker 1: called McCarthyism right nineteen forty seven to nineteen fifty seven.

306
00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:01,200
Speaker 1: It's target was more communist an anarchist this time, but

307
00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:04,959
Speaker 1: both red scares went after both. This Red scare, for example,

308
00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:07,840
Speaker 1: included the anarchist Charlie Chaplin being forced in exile away

309
00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:10,359
Speaker 1: from the US. And I really only include this because

310
00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:12,320
Speaker 1: I like leaving threads to other episodes. So if you

311
00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:14,760
Speaker 1: want to see the app hear more about that. The

312
00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:17,680
Speaker 1: episode of Anti Fascism and Film with Caitlin Durante talks

313
00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:21,880
Speaker 1: about that is marketing genius. Thank you, Thank your job. Yeah,

314
00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:24,359
Speaker 1: I just get really excited about this, like really intensely

315
00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:27,480
Speaker 1: dense web of anyway. No, it's a great way to

316
00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:30,520
Speaker 1: just be like this the same the same way that

317
00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:32,160
Speaker 1: you're like, I had no idea this is happening. At

318
00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:34,480
Speaker 1: the same time, it's good to know that like there's

319
00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:37,840
Speaker 1: all these threads that just like, oh, this is all intermingled,

320
00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:41,119
Speaker 1: because that's fucking history. It's not just like I don't know,

321
00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:44,480
Speaker 1: totally traded somewhere. And also that our struggles have like

322
00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:46,720
Speaker 1: always been tied together in all of these ways, right,

323
00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:49,600
Speaker 1: like the specifically crysto fascist, like you must be a

324
00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:53,159
Speaker 1: godly college thing, the firing of the gay teachers, the

325
00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:57,040
Speaker 1: firing of the like the black studies professor, like it's

326
00:18:57,080 --> 00:19:01,720
Speaker 1: all been tied together forever. Yeah, I think that's why,

327
00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:04,520
Speaker 1: Like when people are shocked about stuff, sometimes it's a

328
00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:07,840
Speaker 1: little bit like this has been happening. That's not how

329
00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:09,360
Speaker 1: I feel like. It's just like it's not like, how

330
00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:11,480
Speaker 1: do we get this way? What happened to people? It's

331
00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:15,919
Speaker 1: like we've always been this way. It's just been like

332
00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:19,159
Speaker 1: bolstered in certain people because it's been so long. I

333
00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:21,199
Speaker 1: don't know if that makes sense. I just think it's like,

334
00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:25,280
Speaker 1: I don't know. Yah. For flavors of the same thing, well,

335
00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:28,600
Speaker 1: if you want different flavors of the same thing, you

336
00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:32,800
Speaker 1: should try American capitalism, where you can go to the

337
00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:36,600
Speaker 1: store and buy a million types of oreos, most of

338
00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:41,959
Speaker 1: which a vegan. Yeah they they are. And also you

339
00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:51,359
Speaker 1: can consume these products and services the support this show. Okay,

340
00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:56,640
Speaker 1: we are back, and we're talking about this mass hysteria

341
00:19:56,840 --> 00:20:00,000
Speaker 1: about communists take over the US or whatever the House

342
00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:05,320
Speaker 1: on American Activities Committee. But and it's famous stuff, and

343
00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:08,080
Speaker 1: I'm sure we'll talk about it more sometime, or if

344
00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:09,960
Speaker 1: only there was like a podcast that was like about

345
00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:13,760
Speaker 1: bad stuff instead. But hmm, get on that. Yeah we should,

346
00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:17,320
Speaker 1: we should make a proposal for that. Yeah, I heart

347
00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:19,040
Speaker 1: would love it. Yeah, I think it would do. Really

348
00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:24,439
Speaker 1: want nothing like it out there. Yeah, So importantly to

349
00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:29,240
Speaker 1: our story, the Red Scare has this shadow the Lavender Scare,

350
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:33,080
Speaker 1: which targeted gay folks of all stripes, and as far

351
00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:35,520
Speaker 1: as I can tell, it was just as wide reaching

352
00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:38,080
Speaker 1: and impactful as the Red Scare in terms of number

353
00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:40,760
Speaker 1: of people who were like fired and shit as a result.

354
00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:43,760
Speaker 1: Is that is this something that people know about? Or

355
00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:45,919
Speaker 1: am I? Am I just a dummy? Like this is

356
00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:49,200
Speaker 1: not known about? Okay, because I've never heard that before.

357
00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:52,720
Speaker 1: It's that's fascinating. Yeah it um, it doesn't get called

358
00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:56,800
Speaker 1: this or anything at the time. It's just happening. It's

359
00:20:56,840 --> 00:20:59,280
Speaker 1: just the government fucking up gay people's lives. In two

360
00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:02,320
Speaker 1: thousand and four, a guy named David K. Johnson wrote

361
00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:04,639
Speaker 1: a book on the whole thing, called the Lavender Scare,

362
00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:08,720
Speaker 1: and this kind of cemented the name. Then the name

363
00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:11,600
Speaker 1: comes from one of the bigots responsible for this repression.

364
00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:14,160
Speaker 1: This one happened to be a Republican. I've run across

365
00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:18,480
Speaker 1: Democrats and Republicans, both being his very bipartisan. This guy's

366
00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:21,560
Speaker 1: name is Everett Dirkson, and he's famous for being the

367
00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:24,240
Speaker 1: Republican who help pass the nineteen sixty four Civil Rights Act,

368
00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:28,879
Speaker 1: crossing the party lines to devote the Democrats. He hated

369
00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:32,840
Speaker 1: gay people, and he liked to use a somewhat popular

370
00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:35,000
Speaker 1: anti gay phrase at the time, and he called gay

371
00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:39,400
Speaker 1: men lavender lads. That's kind of sick. I don't think

372
00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:43,680
Speaker 1: he means it that way. That's kind of sick. Thanks, dude.

373
00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:45,960
Speaker 1: I know I'm not a gay man, so I can't

374
00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:49,879
Speaker 1: tell you what slurs to reclaim. But imagine the street

375
00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:53,159
Speaker 1: gang called the Lavender Lads. You would want to go

376
00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:56,119
Speaker 1: to their parties. You would not want to fucking cross them,

377
00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:58,280
Speaker 1: and you wouldn't want to bring your boyfriend because he's

378
00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:00,439
Speaker 1: going home with a lavender lad instead of that is

379
00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:03,760
Speaker 1: I mean, you can't. I feel like you can't get

380
00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:05,840
Speaker 1: mad at that. Like it's all like he chose anything

381
00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:09,000
Speaker 1: negative in either of those words. It's all like lavender losers.

382
00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:12,640
Speaker 1: It's not like lavender anything bad. It's just like lads. Yeah,

383
00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:20,600
Speaker 1: you know, but despite its sick name, the Lavender scare

384
00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:23,439
Speaker 1: was a bad thing. Right. Its main task was to

385
00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:25,720
Speaker 1: root out and fire all the gay folks in the government,

386
00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:28,320
Speaker 1: in the military. And I don't like the government or

387
00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:31,160
Speaker 1: the military, but that's still fucked up. In the first

388
00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:33,320
Speaker 1: three years of the Scare alone, four hundred and twenty

389
00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:36,440
Speaker 1: people were fired from government jobs on suspicion of homosexuality.

390
00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:42,120
Speaker 1: Seventeen hundred others had their applications denied, four thousand, three

391
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:44,800
Speaker 1: hundred and eighty people were kicked out of the military.

392
00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:50,120
Speaker 1: That's so, how does who's deciding who's gay and who's not. Well,

393
00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:53,560
Speaker 1: this is that's part of the thing about anti gay repression,

394
00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:55,680
Speaker 1: and we see this also with what the Nazis did,

395
00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:58,119
Speaker 1: is that when you decide to go against gay people,

396
00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:03,920
Speaker 1: you can call anyone gay. It's really hard to prove that,

397
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:08,959
Speaker 1: Like you don't like scissorin, you know, like it's just

398
00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:11,600
Speaker 1: like your word against theirs. And if the person that

399
00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:13,840
Speaker 1: is calling you gay has more power than than you're

400
00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:17,320
Speaker 1: fucked even if you are or are not gay. Yeah, yeah,

401
00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:21,119
Speaker 1: and so many people's so I mean, obviously it's a

402
00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:24,480
Speaker 1: lot of people, but like it's just crazy that there's

403
00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:29,840
Speaker 1: always someone deciding something for everyone else. I don't know

404
00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:32,880
Speaker 1: if that makes sense. It's just like we there are

405
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:36,480
Speaker 1: so many huge decisions and all throughout history that is

406
00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:40,439
Speaker 1: like one or two people, just like some dude deciding

407
00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:42,240
Speaker 1: on something. I always think about that when it comes

408
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:45,560
Speaker 1: to like fucking like taxes or something. Yeah, someone someone

409
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:47,960
Speaker 1: chose this, you know what I mean, Like someone shows

410
00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:51,600
Speaker 1: this and now we're suffering because of it. But anyway, no, no,

411
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:54,800
Speaker 1: I like some of the markers that they used to

412
00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:57,000
Speaker 1: determine if someone was gay and should therefore be fired

413
00:23:57,119 --> 00:24:04,840
Speaker 1: was being unmarried and talking gay. Rude. Yeah, I mean

414
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:09,040
Speaker 1: kind of I relate, but rude, I know, I know. Also,

415
00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:11,040
Speaker 1: around this time, I think it was the late forties.

416
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:12,640
Speaker 1: This didn't end up in the script. It almost didn't.

417
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:16,000
Speaker 1: I So now I'm my memory might be faulty. But

418
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:18,280
Speaker 1: around this time, the first Kinsey report comes out, and

419
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:22,440
Speaker 1: these are these studies about the percentage of In this case,

420
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:25,560
Speaker 1: it was a study of like several thousand men, and

421
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:28,159
Speaker 1: it was like representative of the US population, which is

422
00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:30,639
Speaker 1: obviously not true. But of these several thousand men in

423
00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:36,600
Speaker 1: the late forties, only fifty percent were I had only

424
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:42,159
Speaker 1: had heterosexual sexual experiences, only fifty percent. Yeah, So in

425
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:45,639
Speaker 1: the nineteen forties, there were medical studies saying that half

426
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:48,400
Speaker 1: of the US population is somewhere on the gay spectrum.

427
00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:52,360
Speaker 1: That's incredible. Yeah, And I think about this a lot

428
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:55,720
Speaker 1: because I'm down with the way that we currently have

429
00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:58,560
Speaker 1: like gender as an identity and stuff like that. I'm

430
00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:01,679
Speaker 1: fine with being a trans woman whatever, you know. But

431
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:07,840
Speaker 1: when you didn't have these identities, people probably were like

432
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:12,160
Speaker 1: maybe doing more fucking of because there's like less like

433
00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:18,200
Speaker 1: because now if you are a man, you're gay. Yeah,

434
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:21,359
Speaker 1: but before you probably weren't gay unless you were mostly

435
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:23,439
Speaker 1: having sex with men, or you were a bottom or

436
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:26,160
Speaker 1: all kinds of other shit, you know, right, I mean,

437
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:29,280
Speaker 1: like all throughout history, you see, at least, like I

438
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:33,120
Speaker 1: always paid attention to the close relationships that men had

439
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:36,399
Speaker 1: with each other. Like even like my father his like

440
00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:40,200
Speaker 1: pictures from like his college days, Like men like loved

441
00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:44,159
Speaker 1: each other like it just like a different more like touchy,

442
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:47,880
Speaker 1: Like they never would think like no homo kind of way.

443
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:50,919
Speaker 1: They just like that's just how they operated until probably

444
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:56,600
Speaker 1: it was labeled as something that made them feel shame. Yeah, totally.

445
00:25:57,040 --> 00:25:58,920
Speaker 1: And it's such a fucking shame because there's this like

446
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:02,760
Speaker 1: massive problem in the US at least of like um

447
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:06,960
Speaker 1: loneliness among males, and like, yeah, I'm sure a lot

448
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:10,040
Speaker 1: of it is that you're not allowed to open up

449
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:12,680
Speaker 1: about your emotions to anyone except the one woman you're

450
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:15,439
Speaker 1: dating or whatever, which it puts in sorry if that

451
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:18,000
Speaker 1: I know. And then even so I feel bad for

452
00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:20,000
Speaker 1: the one woman you're dating who suddenly you're a fucking

453
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:23,840
Speaker 1: free therapist and the only person you talked to anyway,

454
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:27,520
Speaker 1: the lavenger. It's hard. Sorry, no, I mean it's funny

455
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:30,240
Speaker 1: because it's like but I'm kidding, and you know what

456
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 1: I mean. Yeah, yeah, And the and the reason it's

457
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:36,080
Speaker 1: hard is patriarchy and homophobia. You know, like we we

458
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:39,880
Speaker 1: all have the same oppressor. It's patriarchy, you know, a phobia.

459
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:43,199
Speaker 1: And like so the government had an excuse about why

460
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:45,720
Speaker 1: I was going after gays. It was really that they

461
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:49,520
Speaker 1: just like didn't like gays. But it was the idea

462
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:52,920
Speaker 1: that closeted homosexuals since they were hiding a shameful secret,

463
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:57,680
Speaker 1: were vulnerable to blackmail and might like give information about

464
00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:03,320
Speaker 1: government ship to the the russ skis interesting. Okay, that's

465
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:07,120
Speaker 1: a loophole I ever heard one? Okay, yeah, yeah, one

466
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:10,680
Speaker 1: Democratic politician put it this way, it is generally believed

467
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:13,240
Speaker 1: that those who engage in overt acts of perversion lack

468
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:17,440
Speaker 1: the emotional stability of normal persons. Or McCarthy himself, who

469
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:22,320
Speaker 1: basically was like, communism and homosexuality are both men. I'm paraphrasing.

470
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:25,199
Speaker 1: Communism and homosexuality are both mental and balances and are

471
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:28,000
Speaker 1: kind of the same thing. It was McCarthy's take on it,

472
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 1: which is funny because I was thinking this through. Okay,

473
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:35,480
Speaker 1: it's a real problem if people are have to hide

474
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:39,760
Speaker 1: the fact that they're gay or be shamed by their society,

475
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 1: and therefore they're vulnerable to blackmail. What if instead of

476
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 1: firing them all, you create a society where people aren't

477
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:52,880
Speaker 1: afraid to be outed because no one cares. Yeah. Yeah,

478
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:56,160
Speaker 1: I'm just I can't. I'm still kind of like processing

479
00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 1: everything that you said about I don't know. I was

480
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:01,119
Speaker 1: stuck on the fact that like people were gay and

481
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:03,080
Speaker 1: then they were like in their heads, you know what

482
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:06,520
Speaker 1: I mean, Like the clips. But the FBI and cops

483
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:10,720
Speaker 1: kept list of suspect homosexuals and their hangouts. The United

484
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 1: States Postal Service tracked where gay mail got sent and

485
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:17,360
Speaker 1: passed that information along to the government, and even though

486
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 1: the whole like main thing was to fire people who

487
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:23,000
Speaker 1: worked for the government, this led to this massive anti

488
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 1: gay backlash. Cities banned cross dressing time as a flat circle,

489
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:31,720
Speaker 1: bars were rated and shut down. Professors lost their jobs.

490
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 1: All this shit happened by nineteen fifty three, President Eisenhower

491
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:42,040
Speaker 1: signed Executive Order ten zero whatever one zero four five zero,

492
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:45,120
Speaker 1: which included quote sexual perversion on a list of bad

493
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 1: qualities that were bad for government employees. Wow, and more

494
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:54,320
Speaker 1: gay folks were fired from their jobs and some killed themselves. Yeah,

495
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 1: that's tragic. One fired employee his name was Frank Kameni

496
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 1: and he's today's first protagonist. Hell yeah, okay, Frank, let's go. Yeah.

497
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:08,800
Speaker 1: He was born a Jewish parents in New York in

498
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 1: nineteen twenty five, which a lot of people who end

499
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:15,600
Speaker 1: up as protagonists on this show are Jewish New Yorkers

500
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 1: from this era. Hell I love that. Yeah, love that.

501
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:23,400
Speaker 1: By seventeen, he's like mom, Dad, I'm an atheist. In

502
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 1: nineteen forty one, he ships off and is part of

503
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:27,640
Speaker 1: one of the best things humans have ever done, kill

504
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:31,000
Speaker 1: the shit out of the Nazis. He comes home, he

505
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:35,160
Speaker 1: finishes undergrad he gets his doctorate in astronomy. Then in

506
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 1: the fifties, I think nineteen fifty six, he gets arrested

507
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:41,840
Speaker 1: for homosexual behavior. And this is part of AM I

508
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:45,160
Speaker 1: think this happens in LA. There is this thing that

509
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:47,920
Speaker 1: the cops would do where basically anyone who's suspected to

510
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:51,720
Speaker 1: being gay, they would like and trap them, like since

511
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:53,080
Speaker 1: I'm going to be like, yeah, what's up? You want

512
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 1: fuck in person? Be like oh yeah, yeah maybe, and

513
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 1: they'd be like maybe it's enough. You're going down, motherfucker,

514
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:01,920
Speaker 1: you know right. I think in this case, literally someone

515
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:04,440
Speaker 1: came up at a fucking bus stop and grabbed his

516
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:07,960
Speaker 1: dick like groped him, and then the cops arrested him

517
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 1: for having his dick groped. Huh that's curious. Yeah, it's

518
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:17,480
Speaker 1: like not my favorite thing that's ever happened. Um. Yeah.

519
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:20,920
Speaker 1: In nineteen fifty seven, he's hired for the Army map service.

520
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:23,800
Speaker 1: But then they're like, because he's an astronomer and he

521
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 1: makes maps, I guess he's related somehow. I'm not smart

522
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:30,200
Speaker 1: enough to totally get it. And they're like, oh, you

523
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:32,720
Speaker 1: got arrested for doing a gay thing. Never mind, fuck off,

524
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:35,440
Speaker 1: and they fire him, and they blacklist him from all

525
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:40,600
Speaker 1: employment in the federal government. This fucking war hero doctor

526
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:43,959
Speaker 1: at astronomer who wants to work in the public sector

527
00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:47,560
Speaker 1: because this is part of it. Like my grandfather worked

528
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:49,080
Speaker 1: in the public sector. He was you know, worked for

529
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 1: the Navy and shit, and is not how to get rich.

530
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:56,840
Speaker 1: It just isn't like the people who do public like

531
00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 1: public servant work a fucking doing it because they care

532
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:03,520
Speaker 1: about it. And I guess he really cared about the stars.

533
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 1: Oh until this point, our guy Frank, he's like this

534
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 1: upstanding citizen, right, But they kick him out, so he sues.

535
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:17,320
Speaker 1: So we lost, so we took it to a higher court.

536
00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:18,959
Speaker 1: He tried to take it the Supreme Court and they

537
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:21,480
Speaker 1: were like, now we're good. We don't give a shit. Yeah,

538
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:24,200
Speaker 1: So he becomes a gay rights radical and he coined

539
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:27,720
Speaker 1: the phrase gay is good, which was controversial among gay

540
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:31,240
Speaker 1: rights activists at the time. Oh why what Yeah, because

541
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:34,240
Speaker 1: this is like one of the kind of complicated things

542
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:37,040
Speaker 1: we'll touch on a little bit. But I is basically

543
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:41,320
Speaker 1: a lot of the gay rights movement before the forties

544
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:44,680
Speaker 1: and fifties, and even during the fifties and early sixties,

545
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:48,320
Speaker 1: it was very assimilationist, and it was and some of

546
00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:51,320
Speaker 1: it was even like we are a bit ashamed that

547
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:52,960
Speaker 1: this is the way we are, and we would like

548
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:55,720
Speaker 1: to be better, and you know kind of like we

549
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:57,840
Speaker 1: would like to be straight or if not, we would

550
00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 1: like version therapy kind of, yeah, or at least like

551
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:07,880
Speaker 1: except that we're deviance and be ashamed and stuff. You know. Yeah,

552
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:09,800
Speaker 1: And he was one of the first like really prominent

553
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:13,320
Speaker 1: people being like, no, there's literally nothing wrong with the

554
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:16,840
Speaker 1: way I am. And he was fairly assimilationist and stuff,

555
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:19,320
Speaker 1: but he fucking did a lot of really important good work.

556
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 1: And there's kind of these like way of looking back

557
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:25,440
Speaker 1: at this history and I'm I will do this a

558
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:27,320
Speaker 1: little bit by accident throughout here, where I think that

559
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:30,000
Speaker 1: the direct action stuff was a lot more effective. And

560
00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:32,120
Speaker 1: so this assimilation is stuff where they just want to

561
00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:34,640
Speaker 1: be part of mainstream society I'm like less interested in.

562
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:37,600
Speaker 1: But it's really worth understanding that they did a fuck

563
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:42,320
Speaker 1: ton of work. And so his name won't come up

564
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:44,800
Speaker 1: a ton of the rest throughout the episode, but basically

565
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:49,240
Speaker 1: everything that isn't a riot, Frank is there and helping

566
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:52,840
Speaker 1: make it happen. I love you, Frank. Yeah, Frank is

567
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:56,480
Speaker 1: a good dude. Yeah, he just wants to talk about

568
00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:58,880
Speaker 1: stars and learn about stars, and they didn't let him

569
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:04,960
Speaker 1: do that. You know. Yeah, that's a like sorry, you

570
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:08,480
Speaker 1: like dick too much to study the stars. Yeah, that's

571
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:12,280
Speaker 1: off air. It's just like it's also just like such

572
00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:16,080
Speaker 1: a very specific expertise, you know what I mean, Like

573
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:19,400
Speaker 1: did they really have a big line of people that

574
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 1: wanted to do that, Like, yeah, go work for the

575
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:26,640
Speaker 1: map service. Yeah. The lavender scarce slowed down in the sixties,

576
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:29,480
Speaker 1: but the damage was done. In the nineteen seventies, gay

577
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 1: people were allowed to become spies for the Imperial nightmare

578
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 1: called US government again and in nineties. I love that

579
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:38,520
Speaker 1: they're allowed to do stuff that's like bad purely, I

580
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:41,080
Speaker 1: like purely would benefit them and like put the gay

581
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:45,280
Speaker 1: people at risk of like danger, like totally. It's like

582
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:48,480
Speaker 1: like no gays in the middle, like like, yeah, you

583
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:54,400
Speaker 1: care about whether you're cannon fodder likes anyway. In nineteen

584
00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 1: ninety five, Clinton signed an executive order saying that gay

585
00:33:57,400 --> 00:33:59,600
Speaker 1: should be allowed at the highest level of security clearance,

586
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:02,680
Speaker 1: and then John Kerry, when he was Secretary of the State,

587
00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:05,720
Speaker 1: put a public apology on the State Department website about

588
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:11,120
Speaker 1: the Lavender Scare. Basically within days of Trump's inauguration, the

589
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:14,920
Speaker 1: apology came down. Oh my god, it was like on

590
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:18,360
Speaker 1: January twenty third, people noticed that it was just suddenly

591
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:22,640
Speaker 1: missing from the website. That's crazy. I know, someone is

592
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:26,479
Speaker 1: like tracking that over the century, just being like up down, yeah,

593
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:33,080
Speaker 1: edited down, that's crazy. Yeah, the Lavender Scare isn't often forgotten.

594
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:35,719
Speaker 1: Peace of the context for gay rights in the US,

595
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:40,160
Speaker 1: there's this attitude that's like, yeah, as we talked about

596
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:43,160
Speaker 1: this attitude when it was the Dark Ages, when everyone's homophobic,

597
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:45,360
Speaker 1: and then the gay rights changed all of that. But

598
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:48,040
Speaker 1: even though it wasn't good for queer folks before the

599
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:51,239
Speaker 1: Lavender Scare, it was a specific and intentional destruction of

600
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:54,240
Speaker 1: the power of homosexual people done by the federal government

601
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:56,960
Speaker 1: and local governments, as well as the usual random bigots.

602
00:34:57,239 --> 00:34:58,759
Speaker 1: And I think we need to understand it from that

603
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 1: point of view. So let's talk about some early gay

604
00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:06,480
Speaker 1: rights organizations. Hell yeah, who all had sick fucking names.

605
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:10,480
Speaker 1: I can't fucking quit. I mean, lavender lads, it's already great,

606
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:14,960
Speaker 1: and that wasn't even their choice, I know, I know, Yeah, Okay,

607
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:16,880
Speaker 1: for the most part. The idea that all gays are

608
00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:19,759
Speaker 1: communists or whatever is bullshit. Gays or people, people have

609
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:22,680
Speaker 1: all kinds of political leanings. Um, you know, in our

610
00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:27,440
Speaker 1: Nazi Gays Versus Nazis episode we talked about his name

611
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:30,279
Speaker 1: is rom Right, the gay Nazi who got murdered and

612
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:34,360
Speaker 1: all that shit. But one of the first groups, maybe

613
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:36,279
Speaker 1: like the first it's kind of called the first group

614
00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:39,399
Speaker 1: for gay rights in the US, but whatever, Yeah, who

615
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 1: knows what the first yeah? Yeah, it was formed by

616
00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:46,719
Speaker 1: a gay communist hell yeah. And the first gay magazine

617
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:48,360
Speaker 1: was in Germany. We talked about this before. It was

618
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:50,799
Speaker 1: made by an anarchist because political organizers know how to

619
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:53,960
Speaker 1: get shit started. And so this guy, his name is

620
00:35:54,000 --> 00:36:02,560
Speaker 1: Harry Hey, and he was a Mary Hey. I know, great, Yeah,

621
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:04,920
Speaker 1: he was a Marxist labor organizer and he's the He

622
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:07,400
Speaker 1: was in the Communist Party and he worked hard in

623
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:10,640
Speaker 1: fights against anti Semitism and anti Jim Crow, which is

624
00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:12,680
Speaker 1: credit where it to do what the Communist Party was

625
00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:15,040
Speaker 1: up to during the Red Scare. That's probably part of

626
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:18,920
Speaker 1: why there was a Red Scare. Is the fucking Communist Party. Again,

627
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:22,480
Speaker 1: I'm not the biggest fan. They were fighting hard against

628
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:25,239
Speaker 1: racism as one of the only organized groups of people doing. Yeah.

629
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:30,319
Speaker 1: Harry knew he was gay from a young age. He

630
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:32,440
Speaker 1: tried being straight for a while. He went to the

631
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:35,640
Speaker 1: doctor and the doctor was like, you know, I've helped

632
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:39,040
Speaker 1: a lot of you people. Get over it. People, you

633
00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:43,200
Speaker 1: just need to marry a lady and buy Year five.

634
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:45,759
Speaker 1: You're just gonna fucking love it. So he married this

635
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:50,200
Speaker 1: communist lady and it didn't work out. Eventually they get separated.

636
00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:52,839
Speaker 1: I don't think on bad terms. He starts a gay

637
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:57,400
Speaker 1: right gay rights group and it's called Mattachine and it

638
00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:00,840
Speaker 1: could not have a gayer origin for its name. I

639
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:03,360
Speaker 1: love I can't wait to know what that means. Harry

640
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:06,520
Speaker 1: Hay was into workers education, which is basically popular education.

641
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:09,080
Speaker 1: He was like, I'm gonna go teach the fucking working

642
00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:11,359
Speaker 1: class stuff. But instead of being like, here's like how

643
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:15,240
Speaker 1: to balance your checkbook, he's like, let's teach you about

644
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:21,680
Speaker 1: medieval French costume in theater. And there was Oh that

645
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:25,319
Speaker 1: is so gay, I know, sokay, I love it. There

646
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:29,000
Speaker 1: was a sixteenth and seventeenth century thing. Um, it's more

647
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:31,560
Speaker 1: early Renaissance as much as is late Medieval, but I

648
00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:34,319
Speaker 1: hate typing the word renaissance, so because I can't spell it,

649
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:38,719
Speaker 1: so I'm gonna. And it's called mask the style of

650
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:42,520
Speaker 1: dancing with a que, not a k. And these are

651
00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:45,759
Speaker 1: elaborate pageants with singing and dancing and costumes and shit,

652
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:49,319
Speaker 1: and they end up courtly like for rich people. But

653
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 1: the rich people are incapable of inventing their own entertainment,

654
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:55,040
Speaker 1: so they steal ours. So there was this mask group

655
00:37:55,719 --> 00:38:01,680
Speaker 1: called I can't pronounce French, so siete Madachine, who gets

656
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:04,440
Speaker 1: its name from an from an Arabic word madachine. It

657
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:07,360
Speaker 1: comes from an Arab Arabic word that means mask wears,

658
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:11,640
Speaker 1: which was a more a Moorish costumed and masked sword dancing.

659
00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:14,640
Speaker 1: It's not the word, isn't madaschine. I should have written

660
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:18,840
Speaker 1: down the Arabic word. Um, It's okay. I can imagine

661
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:20,799
Speaker 1: the origins of it, just based on like the sill,

662
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:25,479
Speaker 1: like the sounds in it. Okay, manash, I don't know

663
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:28,959
Speaker 1: what I'll think of it, okay. And so that because

664
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:33,240
Speaker 1: there's this Moorish costumed and masked sword dancing called Madishine

665
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:38,160
Speaker 1: or called something like Madishine, to quote Jonathan Katz from

666
00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:44,160
Speaker 1: gay American history. These societies lifelong secret fraternities of unmarried

667
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:49,120
Speaker 1: townsmen who never performed in public, unmasked aka probably gay man.

668
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:52,760
Speaker 1: We're dedicated to going out into the countryside and conducting

669
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:55,200
Speaker 1: dances and rituals during the feast of fools at the

670
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:59,240
Speaker 1: vernal equinox. Sometimes these dance rituals or masks were peasant

671
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:02,719
Speaker 1: protests against depression, with the maskers and the people's name

672
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:06,359
Speaker 1: receiving the brunt of a given lord's vicious retaliation. So

673
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 1: we took the name Madachine because we felt that we

674
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:12,319
Speaker 1: nineteen fifty gays were also a masked people unknown and

675
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:15,800
Speaker 1: anonymous who might become engaged in morale building and helping

676
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:19,640
Speaker 1: others and ourselves through struggle to move towards total redress

677
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:25,959
Speaker 1: and change. So they found seventeenth and sixteenth century gay

678
00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:31,440
Speaker 1: French social revolutionaries who are into singing and dance, and

679
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:35,399
Speaker 1: that's amazing. Yeah. I think like it's one of those

680
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:37,279
Speaker 1: words that like, if you know what it means, you're

681
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:40,640
Speaker 1: like wow, yes, Yeah. If you don't, you're just like wow,

682
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:42,840
Speaker 1: that's intense sounding, I know, because it was like a

683
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:45,080
Speaker 1: machine gun or something, you know, it sounds like machine

684
00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:46,680
Speaker 1: gun if it have machine gun was sounding like a

685
00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:52,480
Speaker 1: machine gun like you Yeah, yeah, sorry, that's that was

686
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:57,480
Speaker 1: again high. But so they start the Matachine Society first

687
00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:00,279
Speaker 1: in Los Angeles, and according to Harry Hey, they didn't

688
00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:05,960
Speaker 1: call themselves gay or homosexual. They called themselves temperamental. All.

689
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:08,719
Speaker 1: He has a quote, all us temperamental guys, we should

690
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:11,960
Speaker 1: organize I mean big safe. I mean I love that.

691
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:15,160
Speaker 1: I know. There's this quote from Harry about why he

692
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:17,400
Speaker 1: did it, why he started this group that I like.

693
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:19,800
Speaker 1: I was an older brother, so I had to do

694
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:22,279
Speaker 1: a lot of things. First. My father was a self

695
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:24,839
Speaker 1: made man and he would beat me senseless. But he

696
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:28,000
Speaker 1: was a Scotsman and stubborn. I'm his son, and I'm

697
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 1: stubborn too. I go on being stubborn. If you, one

698
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:35,799
Speaker 1: of the fellow temperamental guys, if you have to wait

699
00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:38,880
Speaker 1: until I can make it safe, okay, I'll make it safe.

700
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:41,839
Speaker 1: And if I have to use myself as a battering ram,

701
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:44,879
Speaker 1: I'll do that too the best I can. I'll tell

702
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:47,640
Speaker 1: you a deep, dark secret underneath that facade. I'm a

703
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:50,919
Speaker 1: terrified little sissy, just like everyone else. But I never

704
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:55,040
Speaker 1: let it show. Well, I fucking like that's like, that's

705
00:40:55,040 --> 00:41:00,480
Speaker 1: like poetry. Yeah, yeah, that's beautiful, and that's what we need.

706
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:02,799
Speaker 1: We need this bravery and we owe it what we

707
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:08,759
Speaker 1: have to the fucking human battering rams that came before us. Yeah. Well,

708
00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:11,640
Speaker 1: his partner who helped him start it romantically and in

709
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:15,120
Speaker 1: starting this was a fashion designer named Rudy Gernreich who

710
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:19,160
Speaker 1: was an Austrian Jewish refugee from the Nazis who later

711
00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:23,160
Speaker 1: went on to invent the thong bathing suit, the first

712
00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:27,399
Speaker 1: woman's swimsuit without a built in braw. So anytime you're

713
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:30,040
Speaker 1: swimming in a swimsuit without a built in bra, you

714
00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:33,839
Speaker 1: can thank a gay Jewish probably communist, or at least

715
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:37,360
Speaker 1: dating a Communist refugee from the Nazis who started the

716
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 1: first gay rights organization in the United States. Talk about

717
00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:44,200
Speaker 1: a power couple. That is so sick, big shit. I

718
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:46,439
Speaker 1: love that. And they only dated for a couple of years,

719
00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:50,560
Speaker 1: but he kept funding it for a time. Yeah, no, totally. Yeah,

720
00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:52,799
Speaker 1: And his whole thing as a fashion designer was to

721
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:55,680
Speaker 1: get rid of the idea that nudity was shameful and

722
00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:59,400
Speaker 1: even inherently sexual, and he designed a lot of unisex

723
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:02,880
Speaker 1: clothing later in life, he got really into making soup

724
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:04,960
Speaker 1: he likes, stopped being a fashion designer and just like

725
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:10,400
Speaker 1: made soup recipes. What an endearing man. Oh my gosh.

726
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:15,120
Speaker 1: And Rudy helped start Madachine Society with his boyfriend. Gays

727
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:18,200
Speaker 1: are the best, really. Yeah. For the first few years

728
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:21,480
Speaker 1: Madachine Society was really fucking neat. In La gay men

729
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:24,000
Speaker 1: were getting routinely entrapped out went out cruising, this kind

730
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:26,640
Speaker 1: of stuff we were talking about, you know, cops would

731
00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:28,880
Speaker 1: solicit them for sex and then arrest them for lude behavior.

732
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:32,480
Speaker 1: Madachine fought one of these cases, I think the first

733
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:34,480
Speaker 1: time anyone fought one of these, but I'm not one

734
00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:37,800
Speaker 1: hundred percent on that, and they won. They deadlocked the

735
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:42,880
Speaker 1: jury despite the defendant admitting his homosexuality. That's an improvement

736
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:46,120
Speaker 1: or like a progress if you want to call it that. Yeah.

737
00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:49,560
Speaker 1: Madachine Society here and then in New York did a

738
00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:52,839
Speaker 1: lot of work to specifically stop the entrapment of gay

739
00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:57,080
Speaker 1: men by cops. Most of its founders were Communists anyway,

740
00:42:57,239 --> 00:43:01,120
Speaker 1: so they started in a similar way to the Illegal

741
00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:04,600
Speaker 1: Communist Party. They had like cells, oaths of secrecy, multi

742
00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:08,520
Speaker 1: tiered membership like all that, like revolutionary organization you hear

743
00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:12,760
Speaker 1: about in like twentieth century shit. But there's a problem

744
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:15,920
Speaker 1: with that style of organization. They were infiltrated, like right

745
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:22,399
Speaker 1: the fuck away. Within six months, every chapter ended up infiltrated,

746
00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:26,720
Speaker 1: and they never figured out who any of the infiltrators were. Wow,

747
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:30,120
Speaker 1: So I will say that the twentieth century cell structure

748
00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:33,839
Speaker 1: of resistance is outdated for a reason. Wait, so infiltrated

749
00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:38,160
Speaker 1: by like, yeah, maybe local cops as well. I actually

750
00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:40,360
Speaker 1: I'm not actually certain whether there's local cops or FEDS.

751
00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:44,320
Speaker 1: So they're infiltrating to like dismantle and like at least

752
00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:50,840
Speaker 1: provide information on it. Well, but then the Madachian society,

753
00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:52,760
Speaker 1: Actually I wonder if these are related. They probably aren't.

754
00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:55,799
Speaker 1: What you just said about the infiltration pretty quickly got

755
00:43:55,840 --> 00:44:00,440
Speaker 1: really normy and middle class and assimilationist. Early Madaschian goals

756
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:05,640
Speaker 1: were to basically unify homosexuality and see society dramatically transformed

757
00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:09,400
Speaker 1: as a result. Soon enough people were like, actually, I

758
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:10,920
Speaker 1: just wanted to be legal to get my dick wet,

759
00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:13,920
Speaker 1: which is I'm sure how they phrased it. And so

760
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:18,520
Speaker 1: they kicked out the founders, including Harry Harry it might

761
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:20,680
Speaker 1: be that driven out is more accurate. I've read a

762
00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:24,160
Speaker 1: couple the ways of relating it. It seems like maybe

763
00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:26,080
Speaker 1: they all resigned after basically they were told like, get

764
00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:28,799
Speaker 1: the fuck out of here, and so they went a similationist.

765
00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to entirely shit on them or anything,

766
00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:34,880
Speaker 1: but like from and apparently, one thing I heard was

767
00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:37,520
Speaker 1: that they would like invite psychologists to come to meetings

768
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:39,200
Speaker 1: to talk to everyone about how they were like sick

769
00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:42,600
Speaker 1: and how therapy could help. And it was like and

770
00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:44,880
Speaker 1: they wanted to, you know, they wanted to change the

771
00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:47,000
Speaker 1: laws to make it more okay, but they also like

772
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:50,960
Speaker 1: were like whatever, I mean, that definitely sounds like an

773
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:55,240
Speaker 1: infiltrator tactic in my opinion, right, I don't know, it's possible,

774
00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:59,680
Speaker 1: I don't ye. Or it's just like it was so

775
00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:02,839
Speaker 1: hard to keep up being radical that like they had

776
00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:05,919
Speaker 1: to water it down to the most simple thing. Yeah,

777
00:45:06,239 --> 00:45:08,120
Speaker 1: it's it's one of those to me, or like, I

778
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:10,760
Speaker 1: think a lot of things get started by political radicals.

779
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:14,240
Speaker 1: Both cultural things and political things get started by political

780
00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:17,839
Speaker 1: radicals and then become popular and then as people join it,

781
00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:21,239
Speaker 1: they're there for the like esthetics or they're there for

782
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:24,960
Speaker 1: in this case, the like society of men, and they're

783
00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:27,920
Speaker 1: not interested in the thing that started at the seed.

784
00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:33,440
Speaker 1: So the machine society adopted non confrontation as a strategy,

785
00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:36,920
Speaker 1: and as far as I'm concerned, non confrontation as a

786
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:41,200
Speaker 1: non strategy, because strategy is how you do confrontation. Yeah,

787
00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:46,480
Speaker 1: never works. Also, yeah, fucking Quaker ship does not fucking work. No, no.

788
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:48,600
Speaker 1: And when the Quakers did do good shit, it was

789
00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:51,640
Speaker 1: when they would like smuggle slaves to freedom. Not yeah

790
00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:55,480
Speaker 1: they did stuff, yeah, yeah, exactly, confrontational shit that got

791
00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:58,600
Speaker 1: them killed. Yeah, they were just like pacifists forever they

792
00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:01,680
Speaker 1: had to actually do something. Yeah, I don't know. But

793
00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:04,239
Speaker 1: and what's interesting is when it got more assimilationist, the

794
00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:08,960
Speaker 1: membership actually dropped. People were like, just not as interested,

795
00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:11,640
Speaker 1: I guess. And I think this happens a lot. You know,

796
00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:14,359
Speaker 1: people who are like, oh, we'll reach more people by

797
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:16,719
Speaker 1: being watered down, and people are like, no, the spiciness

798
00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:19,680
Speaker 1: is what fucking drew us here, right, It's not cool

799
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:24,280
Speaker 1: to be in that group anymore. It's like NORMI yeah, yeah,

800
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:26,680
Speaker 1: Harry Hay He gave an interview in nineteen ninety eight

801
00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:29,560
Speaker 1: with the progressive that I learned a lot from. If

802
00:46:29,560 --> 00:46:32,040
Speaker 1: you're feeling like reading some fucking wise words, I think

803
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:33,839
Speaker 1: this is where the battering ram quote comes from too.

804
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:38,400
Speaker 1: Just look up Harry Hay the Progressive. So what he

805
00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:42,719
Speaker 1: said about all of this assimilation of stuff quote assimilation

806
00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:46,360
Speaker 1: is the way you excuse yourself. It absolutely never worked

807
00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:48,880
Speaker 1: at all. You may not think you are noticeable, but

808
00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:51,440
Speaker 1: they know who you are. They know you're a degenerate,

809
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:54,160
Speaker 1: and they've never forgotten that. You won't find out until

810
00:46:54,239 --> 00:46:56,839
Speaker 1: the push comes to shove, and then you'll find out

811
00:46:56,880 --> 00:46:59,680
Speaker 1: fast because they're respectable in the eyes of God and

812
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:03,719
Speaker 1: you aren't. And so the journalist in response, I love

813
00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:05,799
Speaker 1: the way this guy talks. I mean, Harry is a

814
00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:08,680
Speaker 1: fucking poet. Yeah, that's his words are like they make

815
00:47:08,719 --> 00:47:10,960
Speaker 1: me feel things, yeah, and I don't feel anything. So

816
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:15,560
Speaker 1: and so the journalist is like, no, no, no, like, look,

817
00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:18,480
Speaker 1: we've we've made it. You know, which is funny is

818
00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:20,440
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety eight we don't have a gay marriage yet, right,

819
00:47:21,560 --> 00:47:24,680
Speaker 1: And he's like, no, we've assimilated whatever they am not

820
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:27,920
Speaker 1: quoting in paraphrasing. No, we've assimilated. Whenever they want, they

821
00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:29,840
Speaker 1: can rewrite the laws and fuck us up, or to

822
00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:34,040
Speaker 1: quote him, if people become frightened, if something all of

823
00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:36,480
Speaker 1: a sudden goes wrong in our economy, and it can,

824
00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:39,440
Speaker 1: and the preachers start blaming the sin around them on you,

825
00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:42,480
Speaker 1: saying that God's judgment is on you. Little by little,

826
00:47:42,520 --> 00:47:44,920
Speaker 1: they haven't anything to hang on to except that, and

827
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:47,799
Speaker 1: they'll listen, just as they did in Germany. It may

828
00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:52,759
Speaker 1: take four or five years, but it'll work well. Which

829
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:59,080
Speaker 1: is that's haunting to hear spelled out that way? Yeah,

830
00:47:59,120 --> 00:48:02,440
Speaker 1: because that's what's happen. Yeah, I mean, it's like fucking

831
00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:05,480
Speaker 1: predicting the future. Yeah. It's also just so silly that

832
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:08,759
Speaker 1: the people, like the journalist in nineteen ninety eight was like,

833
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:11,680
Speaker 1: we did it because I'm pretty sure, like note president

834
00:48:11,719 --> 00:48:15,840
Speaker 1: even said the word gay or homosexual until like Obama

835
00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:18,400
Speaker 1: or something. Right, it was just like I have to

836
00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:20,239
Speaker 1: look that up. I'm pretty positive. It was like in

837
00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:24,920
Speaker 1: recent times like the hold on, well, while we're looking

838
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:29,120
Speaker 1: up the truth, you can learn the truth from these products,

839
00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:38,920
Speaker 1: say services, and we're back. Yes I was correct. President

840
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:41,760
Speaker 1: Obama was the first president to use the word gay

841
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:48,440
Speaker 1: in in inaugural address to reference sexual orientation, So fuck yeah,

842
00:48:48,520 --> 00:48:52,440
Speaker 1: that was like ten years after that interview ish, probably

843
00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:54,680
Speaker 1: more because he was probably president for a minute, but

844
00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:56,799
Speaker 1: was an inauguration would have been two thousand and nine,

845
00:48:56,840 --> 00:48:59,960
Speaker 1: so yeah, oh yeah, okay, yeah, unless he did any

846
00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:04,279
Speaker 1: second inauguration. But no, I think Harry Hayes's words going

847
00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:08,280
Speaker 1: back to like the actual crux of that stuff before

848
00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:11,680
Speaker 1: the break, it's I don't know, it's it's really it's

849
00:49:11,719 --> 00:49:18,560
Speaker 1: really frightening to see it all spelled out so correctly

850
00:49:18,840 --> 00:49:22,239
Speaker 1: and so scary. It's it's scary to just to read

851
00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:25,000
Speaker 1: and hear and then it's happening. Yeah, it's just like

852
00:49:25,400 --> 00:49:28,319
Speaker 1: I don't know, it drives me insane. No, no, and

853
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:31,320
Speaker 1: that you know. But it's like, okay, so the lavender

854
00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:36,600
Speaker 1: scare sucked, right, but it wasn't Nazi death camps, and

855
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:38,400
Speaker 1: so I think that we need to look at the

856
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:42,359
Speaker 1: bad that's coming. Couldn't be somewhere on a spectrum. Part

857
00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:44,600
Speaker 1: of where we end up on that spectrum is like

858
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:48,520
Speaker 1: how much we all get together and fight, you know,

859
00:49:48,640 --> 00:49:51,799
Speaker 1: like all of us, like who are marginalized or people

860
00:49:51,800 --> 00:49:54,520
Speaker 1: who care about people are marginalized, how much we work

861
00:49:54,560 --> 00:49:57,600
Speaker 1: together to stop it. I think we can. We can

862
00:49:57,640 --> 00:50:02,280
Speaker 1: have some control. I don't know. I mean, we only try.

863
00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:08,160
Speaker 1: I think. What really scares me is that the technology

864
00:50:08,320 --> 00:50:11,719
Speaker 1: is just like at an astronomical place that it wasn't

865
00:50:11,719 --> 00:50:14,880
Speaker 1: at before. Like people are doing deep fakes of drag

866
00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:18,480
Speaker 1: shows where drag queens are like like I don't know,

867
00:50:18,680 --> 00:50:20,759
Speaker 1: doing like doing things in front of children that they

868
00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:22,920
Speaker 1: weren't doing, and like, I don't know, there's there's all

869
00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:25,040
Speaker 1: these deep fakes that I'm saying there aren't actually true.

870
00:50:25,080 --> 00:50:28,040
Speaker 1: One in particular was like this, all these parents and

871
00:50:28,080 --> 00:50:30,520
Speaker 1: their children are sitting on the floor and it was

872
00:50:30,560 --> 00:50:33,560
Speaker 1: apparently an event with a drag queen reading a story,

873
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:36,279
Speaker 1: but instead they've made a deep fake with them like

874
00:50:36,680 --> 00:50:40,400
Speaker 1: dancing kind of like risque and all that stuff, and

875
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:44,319
Speaker 1: it looks real. Yeah, And that's what's scary to me.

876
00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:48,600
Speaker 1: It's like, unless you were told, like pay more attention

877
00:50:48,640 --> 00:50:51,360
Speaker 1: to this, this isn't actually happening. People are gonna like

878
00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:53,839
Speaker 1: see that and like run with it. And that's what's

879
00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:57,200
Speaker 1: scary to me. It's like the control we have is

880
00:50:57,239 --> 00:51:01,720
Speaker 1: so fickle. That's that's I don't know. No, I mean, yeah,

881
00:51:01,880 --> 00:51:05,480
Speaker 1: I sorry, that was just it's gonna be messy. And

882
00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:09,840
Speaker 1: the other future is gonna be fucking complicated. That's what

883
00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:13,360
Speaker 1: that just means. How that's just like emphasizes how important

884
00:51:13,400 --> 00:51:15,440
Speaker 1: it is to actually like fight the good fight and

885
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:19,000
Speaker 1: like not give it up because then the fucking weirdos

886
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:23,960
Speaker 1: are gonna win. Yeah, hateful of meanis hateful Meanis I

887
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:27,360
Speaker 1: really like that? Um? Because I don't want to. I

888
00:51:27,360 --> 00:51:29,319
Speaker 1: don't want to call them weirdos. I think weirds are great.

889
00:51:30,160 --> 00:51:36,799
Speaker 1: And I said hateful so well. The temperamental folks of

890
00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:42,400
Speaker 1: the Matachine Society, Yeah, they keep going and they do

891
00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:45,600
Speaker 1: a lot of work, building connections with other groups. Frank Kameny,

892
00:51:45,719 --> 00:51:48,960
Speaker 1: the guy, the astronomer guy, he gets involved actually before

893
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:52,239
Speaker 1: the split, UM, and he starts the DC chapter and

894
00:51:52,239 --> 00:51:54,799
Speaker 1: he starts pushing to get DC sodomy laws changed in

895
00:51:54,880 --> 00:51:59,200
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty three, starts pushing. It takes thirty years. The

896
00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:02,040
Speaker 1: laws against sodomy in the District of Columbia weren't taken

897
00:52:02,040 --> 00:52:05,359
Speaker 1: off the books until nineteen ninety three. But he worked

898
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:07,440
Speaker 1: at it the whole time, right, because I don't want

899
00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:09,160
Speaker 1: to be like earlier. I was like, Oh, they just

900
00:52:09,200 --> 00:52:10,600
Speaker 1: want to get their dicks wet, Like people should be

901
00:52:10,640 --> 00:52:12,319
Speaker 1: allowed to get their dicks with that is like one

902
00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:15,320
Speaker 1: of the base human desires that approximately fifty percent of

903
00:52:15,400 --> 00:52:20,680
Speaker 1: the population has. And like anyway, so the founders who left,

904
00:52:20,760 --> 00:52:23,560
Speaker 1: including Harry, they go on to start another group called

905
00:52:23,600 --> 00:52:28,719
Speaker 1: One Incorporated, which is less metal of a name but

906
00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:34,520
Speaker 1: is fucking weird. One Incorporated, Like, Okay, it's kind of vanilla.

907
00:52:34,719 --> 00:52:37,879
Speaker 1: One Comma Incorporated, I know, but it's vanilla, but it's

908
00:52:37,880 --> 00:52:40,840
Speaker 1: like almost like creepy. The number one spelled out or

909
00:52:40,960 --> 00:52:44,920
Speaker 1: the number one spelled out, yeah spelled out Okay, and

910
00:52:45,040 --> 00:52:48,120
Speaker 1: One Incorporated let women in actually Mattershian Society was letting

911
00:52:48,120 --> 00:52:50,719
Speaker 1: women in by this point too, I think. And One

912
00:52:50,760 --> 00:52:54,160
Speaker 1: Incorporated they found the first LGBT center in the US basically,

913
00:52:54,160 --> 00:52:57,920
Speaker 1: which is their office. It's very similar to what later

914
00:52:57,960 --> 00:53:02,879
Speaker 1: became LGBT social Centers essentially. And in nineteen fifty three

915
00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:06,160
Speaker 1: they published the first pro gay US magazine. It was

916
00:53:06,200 --> 00:53:13,240
Speaker 1: called One, which is a fucking culty name, no shade,

917
00:53:13,719 --> 00:53:17,480
Speaker 1: but that is fucking culty. They got the name from

918
00:53:17,520 --> 00:53:19,600
Speaker 1: the fact that gays referred to each other as one

919
00:53:19,640 --> 00:53:25,759
Speaker 1: of us, huh and interesting. Their magazine got banned from

920
00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:28,400
Speaker 1: being mailed in nineteen fifty three, same year that it

921
00:53:28,840 --> 00:53:33,040
Speaker 1: made because it was obscene and it had an article

922
00:53:33,080 --> 00:53:37,040
Speaker 1: about gay men and straight marriages and that was what

923
00:53:37,120 --> 00:53:41,000
Speaker 1: was obscene, apparently, And they sued and five years later

924
00:53:41,040 --> 00:53:44,200
Speaker 1: they won the right to mail their magazine. So the

925
00:53:44,320 --> 00:53:48,480
Speaker 1: entire fucking fifties, but the place that One incorporated got

926
00:53:48,480 --> 00:53:50,480
Speaker 1: its money. This is one of my favorite stories of

927
00:53:50,520 --> 00:53:55,440
Speaker 1: all of this. I'd never heard of this guy. There's

928
00:53:55,440 --> 00:54:01,680
Speaker 1: this transman philanthropist. His name is read Ericson. Read Ericson.

929
00:54:02,040 --> 00:54:04,920
Speaker 1: He you know, he inherited his dad's company and he

930
00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:07,799
Speaker 1: invested in real estate and a success successful business man,

931
00:54:07,920 --> 00:54:09,640
Speaker 1: and he you know, made a bunch of money. He

932
00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:13,000
Speaker 1: gave a bunch of money away his legal transition. Uh

933
00:54:13,040 --> 00:54:16,040
Speaker 1: you know, he's a trans transmasculin person. Helps set precedent

934
00:54:16,080 --> 00:54:18,680
Speaker 1: in Louisiana in the fifties about how to get your

935
00:54:18,719 --> 00:54:21,759
Speaker 1: ID change all that shit. But he also used the

936
00:54:21,760 --> 00:54:24,319
Speaker 1: fact that he was rich to be weird, which is

937
00:54:24,320 --> 00:54:27,359
Speaker 1: objectively what you should do when you are rich. The

938
00:54:27,360 --> 00:54:30,000
Speaker 1: only thing you should do when you have money is

939
00:54:30,040 --> 00:54:33,920
Speaker 1: to do that, yeah, be fucking weird, yeah, and help people.

940
00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:36,120
Speaker 1: But you know, yeah, yeah, well he did both. And

941
00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:38,840
Speaker 1: that's what's so cool about him. Like yeah. I mean, like,

942
00:54:38,920 --> 00:54:42,279
Speaker 1: I'm sure his businesses did bad things, but but he

943
00:54:42,360 --> 00:54:47,640
Speaker 1: was really good to his pet leopard named Henry. Repeat,

944
00:54:47,680 --> 00:54:51,279
Speaker 1: what were time? His pet leopard named Henry Henry? Yeah?

945
00:54:51,320 --> 00:54:53,640
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Yes, I mean I heard you that

946
00:54:53,680 --> 00:54:56,040
Speaker 1: time for a real but I needed to hear it back. Yeah,

947
00:54:56,200 --> 00:54:59,080
Speaker 1: we're time. Yeah, Okay, that's that's a rich ass think

948
00:54:59,120 --> 00:55:01,400
Speaker 1: if I've ever heard of. That's just that's something you

949
00:55:01,440 --> 00:55:03,480
Speaker 1: would only do with an obscene amount of money. Yeah,

950
00:55:03,520 --> 00:55:06,239
Speaker 1: it's got a fucking pet leopard named Henry. Yeah, who

951
00:55:06,280 --> 00:55:11,040
Speaker 1: came with him everywhere, including on airplanes. No, I assume

952
00:55:11,080 --> 00:55:12,719
Speaker 1: they were a private jet. I assume it was a

953
00:55:12,719 --> 00:55:17,920
Speaker 1: private jet. That's a well trained leopard. I mean, in

954
00:55:18,000 --> 00:55:20,600
Speaker 1: my head, like the leopard fights back eventually and like

955
00:55:20,719 --> 00:55:23,000
Speaker 1: eats him by. This is just like the kind of

956
00:55:23,080 --> 00:55:25,840
Speaker 1: animal revenge story that probably never happened. Friends for life.

957
00:55:25,840 --> 00:55:27,840
Speaker 1: What it feels really good? Yeah? No, maybe it's like

958
00:55:27,880 --> 00:55:30,840
Speaker 1: Calvin and Hobbs, they were like close. Oh um, I

959
00:55:30,920 --> 00:55:33,080
Speaker 1: don't know, I don't really treated is he a leopard?

960
00:55:33,360 --> 00:55:36,360
Speaker 1: Now he's a tiger? On? Oh he's a tiger okay, sorry,

961
00:55:36,360 --> 00:55:41,640
Speaker 1: you know my mind for a second. Um, oh my god, yeah. No. Um.

962
00:55:41,800 --> 00:55:44,400
Speaker 1: The other thing he did was financed a ton of

963
00:55:44,520 --> 00:55:49,640
Speaker 1: LGPT stuff, including one incorporated and various gender identity clinics

964
00:55:49,640 --> 00:55:52,560
Speaker 1: throughout the country. I think more or less, if you

965
00:55:52,560 --> 00:55:56,280
Speaker 1: were a trans person in the nineteen fifties and sixties,

966
00:55:57,080 --> 00:56:00,759
Speaker 1: it was read Ericson who was paying the people who

967
00:56:00,800 --> 00:56:06,080
Speaker 1: were helping take care of you. That's pretty cool. They published,

968
00:56:06,880 --> 00:56:09,920
Speaker 1: He financed a ton of information and counseling resources for

969
00:56:09,960 --> 00:56:13,200
Speaker 1: trans people. They published pamphlets about how to access resources,

970
00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:19,279
Speaker 1: all that shit. And then he died. How every in

971
00:56:19,400 --> 00:56:22,359
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety two, he was in his seventies and he

972
00:56:22,400 --> 00:56:24,920
Speaker 1: was a fugitive from justice from the US for drug

973
00:56:25,000 --> 00:56:28,560
Speaker 1: charges because he used drugs recreationally, and so he was

974
00:56:28,640 --> 00:56:34,040
Speaker 1: hiding out in Mexico and that's where he died. That's

975
00:56:33,880 --> 00:56:36,520
Speaker 1: just the fact that he used drugs recreationally and that

976
00:56:36,600 --> 00:56:39,560
Speaker 1: was what made him go into hiding is one depressing, Yeah,

977
00:56:39,840 --> 00:56:42,759
Speaker 1: but two, I mean, seventiesel, it's a long life. It's

978
00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:45,200
Speaker 1: longer than most. So now he did great, he did.

979
00:56:45,200 --> 00:56:46,640
Speaker 1: He did a lot. He did a lot. If you're

980
00:56:46,680 --> 00:56:49,640
Speaker 1: going to be a capitalist, be read Ericson, yes. And

981
00:56:49,680 --> 00:56:52,120
Speaker 1: if you're going to get a leopard and help people. Yeah,

982
00:56:52,160 --> 00:56:55,040
Speaker 1: that's all you can do. Yeah. And also I would argue,

983
00:56:55,560 --> 00:56:57,400
Speaker 1: I think if you're a rich guy with a pet leopard,

984
00:56:57,400 --> 00:56:59,360
Speaker 1: your us of dying in Mexico as a fugitive go

985
00:56:59,560 --> 00:57:07,880
Speaker 1: up to eighty. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, that's so. Uh. I

986
00:57:07,880 --> 00:57:09,440
Speaker 1: don't know. I want to happen to that leopard. I

987
00:57:09,440 --> 00:57:11,680
Speaker 1: wonder what the leopard's name was. I'm getting off a

988
00:57:11,719 --> 00:57:13,840
Speaker 1: tangent just because I'm imagining this man like with a

989
00:57:13,920 --> 00:57:15,960
Speaker 1: leopard next to him. Wait, the leopard's name was Henry.

990
00:57:16,800 --> 00:57:20,120
Speaker 1: Oh you did tell me? God damn, my brain is

991
00:57:20,200 --> 00:57:23,040
Speaker 1: really on display in this episode, and I want everyone

992
00:57:23,200 --> 00:57:26,920
Speaker 1: to take pity on me. I know someone else is

993
00:57:26,960 --> 00:57:29,080
Speaker 1: out there that is as dumb as I am. So

994
00:57:29,360 --> 00:57:33,760
Speaker 1: I'm representing that one person. Both Mashing and One Incorporated

995
00:57:33,880 --> 00:57:37,400
Speaker 1: provided material support for another group, the first lesbian political

996
00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:40,520
Speaker 1: organization in the US, which had another sick fucking name,

997
00:57:40,640 --> 00:57:46,040
Speaker 1: The Daughters of belitis Um sometimes the Daughter of Bliss.

998
00:57:46,240 --> 00:57:49,600
Speaker 1: It's sometimes called d OB or the Daughters. And I'll

999
00:57:49,640 --> 00:57:54,680
Speaker 1: tell you what the name comes from. On Wednesday. Oh

1000
00:57:55,080 --> 00:57:57,520
Speaker 1: what a Cliffhanker. That was great. Thanks, they have to

1001
00:57:57,560 --> 00:57:59,600
Speaker 1: come back. I know you're gonna need to know where

1002
00:57:59,600 --> 00:58:06,280
Speaker 1: the daughter can't google? Thank God forbid. Don't google until Wednesday,

1003
00:58:06,360 --> 00:58:11,400
Speaker 1: yeah or at all. Yeah, but what people should google

1004
00:58:12,040 --> 00:58:17,040
Speaker 1: is sharene UNEs. No, No, you shouldn't. Don't do that.

1005
00:58:17,880 --> 00:58:20,160
Speaker 1: But you can follow me on the internet if you

1006
00:58:20,160 --> 00:58:23,480
Speaker 1: want to. My Twitter is shiro Hero six six six

1007
00:58:23,520 --> 00:58:28,080
Speaker 1: and my Instagram is just shiro Hero. I'm around sometimes.

1008
00:58:28,840 --> 00:58:31,400
Speaker 1: That's that's about it. Have you ever googled your name

1009
00:58:31,440 --> 00:58:37,680
Speaker 1: plus controversy? No, but now I will. I haven't either.

1010
00:58:38,240 --> 00:58:40,960
Speaker 1: All right, well, ye see you all. Oms As to

1011
00:58:41,000 --> 00:58:43,600
Speaker 1: plug things, I have another podcast. It's called live like

1012
00:58:43,640 --> 00:58:46,560
Speaker 1: Doorld's Dyne. If you think things are bad, I do too.

1013
00:58:47,000 --> 00:58:48,720
Speaker 1: I have a podcast about how to get prepared and

1014
00:58:48,720 --> 00:58:51,440
Speaker 1: get together with your friends. Don't live like Doorld's Dyne.

1015
00:58:51,800 --> 00:58:56,919
Speaker 1: We'll see you on Wednesday. Cool People Who Did Cool

1016
00:58:56,920 --> 00:58:59,680
Speaker 1: Stop is a production of cool Zone Media. Or more

1017
00:58:59,680 --> 00:59:03,520
Speaker 1: podcast on Coolzone Media. Visit our website coool Zonemedia dot com,

1018
00:59:03,840 --> 00:59:06,920
Speaker 1: or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1019
00:59:07,120 --> 00:59:08,800
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.