1 00:00:03,080 --> 00:00:05,600 Speaker 1: Michelle Can came the United States to get her education. 2 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:08,520 Speaker 1: She's a native of South Korea. After she got her 3 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:11,160 Speaker 1: education in the United States, she stayed here and became 4 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:14,760 Speaker 1: very actively involved in the business world. Built a successful company, 5 00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:17,880 Speaker 1: sold it, and now she's very involved in women's sports, 6 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 1: and particularly women's soccer. I sat down with her to 7 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:24,239 Speaker 1: talk about why she's so interested in revolutionized women's sports 8 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 1: and women's soccer. So let me ask you about how 9 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:32,520 Speaker 1: you came to become a leading women's soccer team owner, 10 00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:35,920 Speaker 1: having had no experience as a soccer team player and 11 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:38,520 Speaker 1: not having spent a lot of time in athletics before 12 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:39,519 Speaker 1: you got into this. 13 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:42,640 Speaker 2: Well, I was a good athlete, but not soccer. I 14 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:46,800 Speaker 2: have to say it was by accident coincidence. I really 15 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:49,479 Speaker 2: did not even know there was a professional women's soccer 16 00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:52,600 Speaker 2: league in the United States, let alone there was a 17 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:56,680 Speaker 2: professional team in DC. And it was twenty nineteen when 18 00:00:56,720 --> 00:01:00,320 Speaker 2: the US women's national team won the World Cup, sort 19 00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:03,640 Speaker 2: of a celebration party on the Capitol and I was 20 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:07,080 Speaker 2: invited and I got to learn about it, and since 21 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:09,399 Speaker 2: then I was sort of convinced that I should join. 22 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:13,640 Speaker 2: Initially as just a minority investor, and be a mentor 23 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:16,480 Speaker 2: to a lot of young, incredible women. And when I started, 24 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:18,280 Speaker 2: I never had an intention that I was going to 25 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:20,400 Speaker 2: go run multi teams around the globe. 26 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:23,959 Speaker 1: How many women's sports teams have sprouted up in recent years, 27 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:25,800 Speaker 1: but are they profitable? 28 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:26,600 Speaker 3: Not yet? 29 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:29,680 Speaker 4: And you think they will be out presumably. 30 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:31,800 Speaker 2: Absolutely, But I mean, I'd say to be fair, if 31 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:34,600 Speaker 2: you look at a lot of men's teams, if you 32 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:37,920 Speaker 2: actually take their media deals, there aren't that many companies 33 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:41,120 Speaker 2: that are profitable from just game day operations. So we 34 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:44,280 Speaker 2: as an emerging league, our media deal is not as 35 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:47,440 Speaker 2: big as some of this more mature league. So we're 36 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 2: getting there because we're building teams, we're building attendance. But 37 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:54,360 Speaker 2: even game day operations were on our way at least 38 00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:55,720 Speaker 2: break given in a couple of years. 39 00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 1: So in an average women's soccer team game, let's say 40 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:01,480 Speaker 1: how many fans will. 41 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:05,000 Speaker 2: Show up, so that we play at a stadium called 42 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:09,120 Speaker 2: Audi Stadium, the sellout is nineteen two hundred and fifteen. 43 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:12,959 Speaker 2: Last two games, which were quarterfinal and semi final of 44 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:16,440 Speaker 2: the playoffs, we sold out and then exceeded this sellout 45 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 2: because we had standing room only. 46 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:18,880 Speaker 4: How many women are on the. 47 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:20,679 Speaker 3: Team twenty five or twenty six. 48 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:23,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, they come largely from America. 49 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:26,200 Speaker 2: It used to be because in the US especially, we 50 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 2: had a draft system. So the typical path would be 51 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:33,520 Speaker 2: you play high school, local academy or clubs, and then 52 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:36,680 Speaker 2: you go to college and scholarships hopefully, and then you 53 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:41,240 Speaker 2: get drafted from the college system. But now it's booming everywhere. 54 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:44,880 Speaker 2: Clearly in Europe it's pretty significant, so there are a 55 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:47,840 Speaker 2: lot more player movements, so we now have pretty significant 56 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:53,320 Speaker 2: international players. But every team is limited to seven international players. 57 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:56,640 Speaker 1: So I know from owning a sports team that only 58 00:02:56,680 --> 00:02:58,560 Speaker 1: one team takes a lot of energy and time. 59 00:02:59,080 --> 00:02:59,800 Speaker 3: Tell me about it. 60 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:03,080 Speaker 1: So you decided after you bought the Washington Spirits to 61 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 1: buy some other soccer teams, So you bought stakes in 62 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:08,240 Speaker 1: a team in England? 63 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:08,880 Speaker 4: Is that right? 64 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:13,240 Speaker 2: Yes, I bought a team called London City Linuses, and 65 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 2: that is the only one of the two teams in 66 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:21,440 Speaker 2: the entire potentially Great Britain that are independent. Ninety nine 67 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:24,600 Speaker 2: percent of the teams in Europe are part of the 68 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:27,960 Speaker 2: men's team, but this is one of the only two 69 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:31,079 Speaker 2: teams that was independent. 70 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:34,560 Speaker 1: So now you have two soccer teams, one in England 71 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:36,960 Speaker 1: and one of the United States. So I would think 72 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:39,360 Speaker 1: for most people that might be enough, but you decide 73 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:41,080 Speaker 1: to buy a team in France as well. 74 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:46,600 Speaker 2: Yes, Olympic Leode Feminine is actually the best women's team 75 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:50,200 Speaker 2: in the history of women's football in terms of how 76 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 2: many trophies the team has won. They are the eight 77 00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 2: times champions of the European Pan European League and I 78 00:03:57,640 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 2: can't even count how many times they won the French 79 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:02,240 Speaker 2: domestic lea the most successful team. 80 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 1: Hey, so now you have this team, the French team, 81 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:08,480 Speaker 1: the English team, you have the American team, and then 82 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:12,240 Speaker 1: you now have minority stakes in male soccer teams as well. 83 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:13,880 Speaker 4: Yes, and which ones do you have? 84 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:18,119 Speaker 2: So Crystal Palace in England and olympicly on a men's 85 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 2: team as well. 86 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 4: Okay, so now you have five. 87 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:21,919 Speaker 3: It's a passive and that one is passive. 88 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:23,760 Speaker 4: You have three that you control. 89 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:25,600 Speaker 3: Correct and actively managed. 90 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 4: Actively managed. 91 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:28,119 Speaker 1: As if that wasn't enough, you want to get into 92 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 1: the sportswear and shoe part of soccer as well. 93 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 2: There are reasons why women's football or women's sports have 94 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:40,200 Speaker 2: been somewhat behind than men's sports. There are a lot 95 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 2: of key elements that would make any sports successful were 96 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 2: not present. So, for example, if you look at women's 97 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:52,360 Speaker 2: teams as team sports, their training manuals are borrowed from 98 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:56,279 Speaker 2: men's training manuals. There's no independent training manuals designed and 99 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:59,160 Speaker 2: develop for women. While women's body is not the same 100 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 2: as men, hormone, nutritions, sleep, they all work differently, and 101 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:07,680 Speaker 2: women are seven eight times more likely to get an 102 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 2: ACL injury than men. But we train exactly the same 103 00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 2: way we train men. So there has to be investment 104 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:19,320 Speaker 2: in understanding female body and especially with the hormone the period, 105 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 2: how do they impact female athlete performance. Ninety four percent 106 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:29,200 Speaker 2: of all science and medical research on athlete performance is 107 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:31,839 Speaker 2: dedicated to men and the other six percent is not 108 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:35,000 Speaker 2: dedicated to women. It includes women, So there's just absolute 109 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:38,719 Speaker 2: lack of investment. So that has to be done. Now, 110 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:42,840 Speaker 2: I am crazy and ambitious, but I can't invest if 111 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:45,400 Speaker 2: I have only one team. You talk about profitability and 112 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:49,120 Speaker 2: the size of the revenue, You cannot afford that level 113 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:53,280 Speaker 2: of investment, which is absolutely necessary. You can't do it 114 00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 2: if you own just one team, But if you have 115 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:58,640 Speaker 2: multi teams, then you can centralize the resources and do 116 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:01,120 Speaker 2: it once and make it available to everyone. If you 117 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:05,280 Speaker 2: think about global scouting capabilities, each team doesn't have to 118 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:09,119 Speaker 2: build global scouting everywhere. You just go watch one game 119 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 2: and you don't need to send five people to watch 120 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:13,600 Speaker 2: the same thing. So there are some things that you 121 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:17,640 Speaker 2: can build centrally that you can actually put the necessary 122 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:22,240 Speaker 2: level of scale investment. You can't just buy teams and 123 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 2: invest in teams, build training center and stadiums and you 124 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:29,120 Speaker 2: think that actually that's going to advance the women's football. 125 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:33,240 Speaker 2: For example, the cleats, the boots, so they basically take 126 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:35,839 Speaker 2: men's shoes, men's boots and then make it a little 127 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 2: narrow and little shorter and pink it. Well, apparently, I'm 128 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:42,200 Speaker 2: told I'm not a scientist. The weight distribution when women 129 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:47,120 Speaker 2: run is very different than men. The arches, our arches 130 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:49,560 Speaker 2: are a little different than the men. So the shoes 131 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 2: the boots are one of the contributing factors for female injury. 132 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:55,920 Speaker 2: So you need to invest in that. We don't get 133 00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:59,240 Speaker 2: enough media attention right women's sports. There is a media 134 00:06:59,279 --> 00:07:03,280 Speaker 2: company that's specializes that covers only women's sports. So I'm 135 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:06,200 Speaker 2: investing in those things because the entire ecosystem has to 136 00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:08,440 Speaker 2: move together, not just the teams. 137 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:11,520 Speaker 1: Is anybody from career call up and said, we have 138 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 1: some female soccer teams here and we'd like you to 139 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 1: buy one. 140 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 4: Nothing yet, nothing yet. 141 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:19,240 Speaker 1: But your ultimate plan with respect to what you're doing 142 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:21,920 Speaker 1: in sports is to either buy more teams or to 143 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 1: just grow the value of the teams. 144 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:26,120 Speaker 4: What is your openmate game plan? 145 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:27,320 Speaker 3: Yes, I do. 146 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:29,320 Speaker 2: I mean I think there's sort of a multi step. 147 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 2: I want to professionalize women's sports, right. I don't want 148 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 2: people to think that some of my women's sports is 149 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:39,040 Speaker 2: a charity or a corporate DEI project this is a 150 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 2: legitimate entertainment product and it is a business that is 151 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:48,200 Speaker 2: going to be profitable, break even profitable and enterprise values 152 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:50,640 Speaker 2: and so forth. So I want people to take the 153 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:54,040 Speaker 2: women's sports seriously. So I'm on a mission to prove 154 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:57,720 Speaker 2: that women's sports is a good business, right, and that 155 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:01,120 Speaker 2: comes from professionalizing it and investing in it. 156 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 1: I want to get to the story of how you 157 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:06,600 Speaker 1: be able to afford doing this. So it's a very 158 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:08,760 Speaker 1: interesting story, but I think the best way to tell 159 00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:11,400 Speaker 1: it is to tell from the beginning. So you were 160 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:16,680 Speaker 1: born where South Korea, and you were raised in what city, Soul, 161 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 1: and your parents were. 162 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:22,480 Speaker 2: My father was a professor. My mom was an elementary 163 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 2: school teacher turned politician. Later, my father was educated in 164 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 2: the United States. He got his graduate degree, so he 165 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:36,840 Speaker 2: had relatively open minded about gender issues. Korea, clearly at 166 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:39,719 Speaker 2: that time, was a very traditional society where girls were 167 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 2: supposed to do certain things, study certain things, and when 168 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 2: you graduate from college, then you get married and you 169 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:48,720 Speaker 2: have children and all that. So there's sort of a norm, 170 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 2: the social norm that you're supposed to follow. But my father, 171 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:56,439 Speaker 2: who had three girls, had a little different ideas because 172 00:08:56,440 --> 00:09:00,240 Speaker 2: he was exposed college in Japan and graduate school in 173 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 2: the US that girls can do whatever they want to 174 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:07,160 Speaker 2: do in the future. And he instilled that idea in 175 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:10,440 Speaker 2: US and I don't think my sisters really took up 176 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:13,080 Speaker 2: that idea, but it just had a lot of impact 177 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:13,360 Speaker 2: on me. 178 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 1: And then you had an opportunity to go to college 179 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:18,880 Speaker 1: in the United States. And in those days, as I 180 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:23,120 Speaker 1: understand it, Korean families saved up money so their daughters 181 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:26,800 Speaker 1: could have money to get married. And so your parents 182 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:29,800 Speaker 1: were saving up money for you to get married, and 183 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:31,400 Speaker 1: then you said, I want to go to the school 184 00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 1: in the United States. 185 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:32,840 Speaker 4: And what happened. 186 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, So, especially at that time, unmarried young women going 187 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:42,280 Speaker 2: to America alone was just unheard of and not acceptable, right, 188 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 2: No parents in the right mind would send an unmarried 189 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:49,520 Speaker 2: young woman to a foreign country. So I had to negotiate. 190 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:52,160 Speaker 2: So at that time, Korea was going through a lot 191 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 2: of political turmoil, sort of a democracy movement driven by 192 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:01,840 Speaker 2: a lot of college students in college cam so the 193 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:05,080 Speaker 2: colleges were shut down. So I kind of said, well, 194 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:08,080 Speaker 2: you know, I want to go study, but the schools 195 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:10,720 Speaker 2: are shut down. I can't study. And if you don't 196 00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:15,640 Speaker 2: let me go, then I may participate in these demonstrations 197 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:18,439 Speaker 2: and my career, my future could be ruined. 198 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:19,520 Speaker 3: Who knows. 199 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:21,320 Speaker 2: And I kind of use a little bit of a 200 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:24,560 Speaker 2: threat but also a little bit of a negotiation, And 201 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:27,480 Speaker 2: I said, give me just for one year's worth of 202 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:31,520 Speaker 2: the tuition and living expenses, and after that I'll figure 203 00:10:31,559 --> 00:10:34,120 Speaker 2: it out, and when I start making money, I'll pay 204 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 2: back every penny. And when I get married, you don't 205 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 2: have to spend the time. I'll figure it out and 206 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:42,520 Speaker 2: I pay everything back and some more. 207 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:43,560 Speaker 4: So they agreed to it. 208 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 1: Now, you went to the University of Chicago, But how 209 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:47,720 Speaker 1: did you happen to pick the universe of Chicago as 210 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:49,520 Speaker 1: opposed to many other universities. 211 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:52,520 Speaker 2: Well at that time, actually I was studying economics in Korea, 212 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:55,439 Speaker 2: and which was also kind of unheard of for girls 213 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:56,800 Speaker 2: to study economics. 214 00:10:57,080 --> 00:10:58,160 Speaker 3: I said, I have to go there. 215 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:02,360 Speaker 2: I have to learn economics where the real economics is taught. 216 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:05,640 Speaker 2: So that was why I picked Eros of Chicago. 217 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:08,439 Speaker 1: And So was it a culture shock for you to 218 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:10,960 Speaker 1: kind of deal with all these Americans in Chicago? 219 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:12,440 Speaker 4: Or it wasn't a big problem. 220 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 2: It was really not a big problem. I mean, I 221 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:19,480 Speaker 2: just really enjoyed it being on my own. My parents 222 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:23,680 Speaker 2: were not really rich or famous, but still the environment 223 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:26,360 Speaker 2: or the circle that I grew up, I was always 224 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 2: so and so's daughter, so and so's granddaughter, so and 225 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:34,880 Speaker 2: so's sister. I absolutely hated that I wanted to go 226 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:37,719 Speaker 2: where no one knew who I was. So it was 227 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:41,559 Speaker 2: like free at last, and I just enjoyed every minute 228 00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:41,839 Speaker 2: of it. 229 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:44,199 Speaker 1: When you graduated from you in Chicago, you decided to 230 00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:46,120 Speaker 1: go to business school and you picked the Yale School 231 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:48,360 Speaker 1: of Management. Why did you pick that school of Management? 232 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 1: Which a very good one? 233 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:49,880 Speaker 3: Yes. 234 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:53,360 Speaker 2: At that time, Yale actually was about ten years old, 235 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:57,040 Speaker 2: and their mission and vision was not to create another 236 00:11:57,240 --> 00:12:02,239 Speaker 2: Harvard Business School, but rather very different, unique educational institution, 237 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:07,040 Speaker 2: and that was mix both public and private management. And 238 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:09,199 Speaker 2: the best part to me was it was a very 239 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:12,600 Speaker 2: small class, about one hundred seventy or so at that time, 240 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:15,520 Speaker 2: if I'm not mistake in Harvard had about eight hundred students, 241 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:18,920 Speaker 2: and of course it was drawing upon the incredible faculty 242 00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:23,080 Speaker 2: members of Yale University, and I just really thought that 243 00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:24,440 Speaker 2: that was the best program for me. 244 00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:26,720 Speaker 1: All Right, so you graduate from Yale School of Management, 245 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:28,000 Speaker 1: what do you decide to do next? 246 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:31,520 Speaker 2: At that time, actually I had a three ten year 247 00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:35,640 Speaker 2: plan for my future career. First ten years I was 248 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:38,560 Speaker 2: going to go into consulting, strategy consulting, because that's the 249 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:42,760 Speaker 2: fastest way to learn every aspect of business. So I 250 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:45,680 Speaker 2: thought the strategy consulting was the fastest way. But the 251 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 2: second half was going to be if you want to 252 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:50,080 Speaker 2: be a leader and CEO of any organization like Fortune 253 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 2: five hundred company, it's not about whether you can build 254 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:56,840 Speaker 2: the most sophisticated Excel spreadsheet and pricing strategy, but rather 255 00:12:56,920 --> 00:12:59,760 Speaker 2: how do you manage and how do you lead organizations? 256 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:03,640 Speaker 2: Especially how do you move people sideways to get them 257 00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:05,560 Speaker 2: to do what you want them to do, people who 258 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:08,040 Speaker 2: work for you, people who you work for, and that 259 00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 2: you can do only in a fortune five hundred environment. 260 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:12,720 Speaker 3: And I didn't really like it. 261 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:17,120 Speaker 2: So I decided to spend the next decade in a 262 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:21,360 Speaker 2: fortune five hundred company focusing on organizational kind of leadership. 263 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:23,280 Speaker 2: And then the third decade was I was going to 264 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:25,320 Speaker 2: take a shot at becoming a CEO of a fortune 265 00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:26,160 Speaker 2: five hundred company. 266 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:29,400 Speaker 1: Okay, that's fairly ambitious schedule. So the first part you 267 00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:31,120 Speaker 1: want to do, go into consulting, im But so you 268 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:32,640 Speaker 1: do that? How many years with Arthur D. 269 00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:33,040 Speaker 4: Little? 270 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:36,360 Speaker 2: I did probably outn't know, four or five years or 271 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:37,240 Speaker 2: maybe six years. 272 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:39,560 Speaker 4: And then you went to ernstign Young correct in the 273 00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:42,600 Speaker 4: consulting side. Yes, okay, so you did that for a while. 274 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:46,560 Speaker 1: And then you left ernstign Youong and you joined North 275 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:50,600 Speaker 1: of Brummin, which to the average person is a defense company. 276 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:52,719 Speaker 4: Were you in the Washington RAFA? Yes, you moved to 277 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 4: Washington area and you. 278 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:58,800 Speaker 1: Were involved in their healthcare business or their technology business. 279 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:03,160 Speaker 2: So I joined as a strategy officer. But then I 280 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:05,800 Speaker 2: really wanted to go run something. My goal was to 281 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:09,199 Speaker 2: learn how to build an organization. How you build leadership. 282 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:12,000 Speaker 2: So I asked to give me a P and L organization. 283 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:16,520 Speaker 2: So they gave me this health business, which they thought 284 00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:19,480 Speaker 2: was so bad that I couldn't screw up right, So 285 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:22,040 Speaker 2: she asked for it. We're going to give it to her. 286 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:24,960 Speaker 2: If she doesn't do a good job, no harm done, 287 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:27,440 Speaker 2: because it's already too very bad anyway. 288 00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:30,200 Speaker 3: And that's how I ended up careousness. 289 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:32,960 Speaker 1: In healthcare for Northrop Brummen. But at that time, what 290 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:35,440 Speaker 1: is your family saying back in career? Do they keep 291 00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:37,120 Speaker 1: calling or saying, now you're going to come back? 292 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:40,040 Speaker 2: Well, then they kind of gave up on me, and 293 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:44,360 Speaker 2: they probably had no idea what I was doing. And 294 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:48,120 Speaker 2: you know, at that time, especially in Asia or you 295 00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:50,960 Speaker 2: know even in the US at that time, women go 296 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:54,400 Speaker 2: into the business world or get an advanced degree. You're 297 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:58,480 Speaker 2: either a lawyer or accountant. I was none of those, right, 298 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:01,520 Speaker 2: So they kind of gave up understanding what I was doing. 299 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:05,080 Speaker 2: But somehow I wasn't doing too badly, so they're like, okay, 300 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:05,720 Speaker 2: she's okay. 301 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:08,440 Speaker 1: So at some point you decide I'm going to be 302 00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 1: my own boss and entrepreneur. 303 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:14,640 Speaker 2: It was hard, but it was easy at that time. 304 00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:19,200 Speaker 2: President Bush forty three declared that every American who wants 305 00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:22,480 Speaker 2: to have an electronic medical record will have one by 306 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:25,440 Speaker 2: twenty fourteen. So he put his stakes in the ground 307 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:30,200 Speaker 2: and start investing in all the doctors and hospitals implementing 308 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:33,680 Speaker 2: electronic medical records. So the boom was kind of happening, 309 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:37,840 Speaker 2: the IT investment, And when you're in the middle of that, 310 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:41,080 Speaker 2: you get that bug and you can see like how 311 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 2: the dots could be connected. 312 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:44,840 Speaker 1: Whenever you start a company, you have to get some 313 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:46,880 Speaker 1: capital to pay people and so forth. 314 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:48,360 Speaker 4: So where did your capital come from? 315 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:51,840 Speaker 2: So I certainly had offers, But you know, I've been 316 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:53,880 Speaker 2: saying this to a lot of people as well, that 317 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:56,720 Speaker 2: I did not take any external capital. 318 00:15:56,880 --> 00:15:58,520 Speaker 3: I literally bootstrapped. 319 00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:02,960 Speaker 2: I think if I took external capital, if I were them, 320 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:05,280 Speaker 2: I would not have let me take the kind of 321 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:08,400 Speaker 2: risks that I took. So I knew that, so I 322 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:09,600 Speaker 2: didn't want to do that to them. 323 00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:12,680 Speaker 1: The name of the company was what cogni sante What 324 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:13,280 Speaker 1: does that mean? 325 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:16,280 Speaker 2: So that means that you know something about health healthcare. 326 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:18,400 Speaker 2: Sante means health in French. 327 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:22,520 Speaker 1: So you were doing consulting and effect or helping companies 328 00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:23,520 Speaker 1: in the healthcare world. 329 00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:26,960 Speaker 2: Ultimately it reduced the costs and improve the care and 330 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:30,000 Speaker 2: so for But using technology, every doctor you visit, if 331 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:31,720 Speaker 2: you want to get a second opinion, you have to 332 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:34,880 Speaker 2: go get your MRIs and X rays all over again 333 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:39,120 Speaker 2: for various reasons because it's different hospital systems, insurance purposes 334 00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:42,360 Speaker 2: and all that. But if you can have actually interoperable 335 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:45,480 Speaker 2: IT system where all is, whether it's a picture or 336 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:49,560 Speaker 2: doctor's notes, could be shared in real time or elect 337 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:53,280 Speaker 2: electronic form, you don't have to take another MRI. So 338 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:59,680 Speaker 2: it's a really efficient flow electronic flow of medical records, pictures. 339 00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:01,760 Speaker 3: Prescriptions and so and all that. So interroperability. 340 00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:03,360 Speaker 4: What year did you start your company? 341 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:06,800 Speaker 2: Technically two thousand and eight, right before the market crashed. 342 00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:09,600 Speaker 1: Yes, okay, two thousand and eight, and then you sold 343 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:14,280 Speaker 1: it last year twenty twenty four two accenture, I think 344 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:17,560 Speaker 1: it was, Yes, So you sold it, walked away, started 345 00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:19,080 Speaker 1: a company called Kanishka. 346 00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:20,800 Speaker 4: Can you tell us what that does? 347 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 3: Yeah? 348 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:25,760 Speaker 2: So that's the globally first multi club organization that includes 349 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:28,800 Speaker 2: only women's soccer team or football teams. There are a 350 00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:32,640 Speaker 2: lot of examples on the men's side, City Football Group, 351 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:35,600 Speaker 2: Red Bull, Redbird, all that, but This is the first 352 00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:40,040 Speaker 2: on women's side, and as we've been talking about, I 353 00:17:40,119 --> 00:17:42,879 Speaker 2: own on multiple teams and I wanted to kind of 354 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:46,760 Speaker 2: create that synergy and economist of scale and scope. 355 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:47,280 Speaker 3: So it's the. 356 00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:52,080 Speaker 2: First in the world. And it's named after a Spartan 357 00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:56,000 Speaker 2: princess who lived in BC three hundred plus years. She 358 00:17:56,280 --> 00:18:01,720 Speaker 2: was a princess very much into horseback riding and she 359 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:05,879 Speaker 2: wanted to compete in the Olympics and the chariot racing 360 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:10,160 Speaker 2: was an Olympic game, but women were not allowed to compete. 361 00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:13,280 Speaker 2: Instead of complaining, she found out a loophole which was 362 00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:18,000 Speaker 2: at that time chariot racing. The medals were awarded not 363 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 2: to the racers but to the owners of the horses, 364 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:23,480 Speaker 2: and she went out and hired a whole bunch of 365 00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:27,840 Speaker 2: male chariot racers and had them compete and she went 366 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:28,920 Speaker 2: to gold medals. 367 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:30,800 Speaker 1: So do you get as much pleasure out of what 368 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:33,480 Speaker 1: you're doing in soccer as you did in building your company. 369 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's probably a little different, But yes, 370 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:43,080 Speaker 2: I'm enjoying it. Although I have to say every weekend 371 00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:45,560 Speaker 2: I have to watch just about even the seasons are 372 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:48,679 Speaker 2: not quite the same, and they're not quite aligned. But 373 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:52,080 Speaker 2: every weekend when all three teams watch, I don't think 374 00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:55,080 Speaker 2: I'm going to live up my natural lifespan because every 375 00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:56,879 Speaker 2: weekend I have to watch three games. 376 00:18:56,920 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 3: It's just like nail biting. 377 00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:01,120 Speaker 1: So you've been a bit of a leader in being 378 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:06,000 Speaker 1: an external investor in a women's soccer team, and let's 379 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:09,600 Speaker 1: say France and in England, do you think other women 380 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:12,800 Speaker 1: and or men are going to start investing external investors 381 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:13,879 Speaker 1: into these kind of teams. 382 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 3: Yeah. 383 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:17,360 Speaker 2: So when I first arrived in England and France, everyone 384 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:20,119 Speaker 2: felt very badly for me, and they thought I was 385 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:23,240 Speaker 2: going to fail miserably. How can you do this when 386 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:26,720 Speaker 2: you don't have sort of the brand equity to leverage 387 00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:31,000 Speaker 2: from men's team or in communities like Leone and so forth. 388 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:35,880 Speaker 2: But now I can tell you that some of these 389 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:39,680 Speaker 2: Premier League teams and some of the top division teams, 390 00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:43,200 Speaker 2: they're not necessarily spinning off the team like what I've 391 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:46,240 Speaker 2: done in Leone, we totally spun off the women's team 392 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:50,000 Speaker 2: from men's team. But now some of the teams are 393 00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 2: spinning up women's teams inside their mothership and they're actually 394 00:19:56,920 --> 00:20:00,800 Speaker 2: a recruiting investor separately. So Chelsea is another sample, They 395 00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:04,600 Speaker 2: actually separated women's team and they have separate investor group. 396 00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:06,320 Speaker 2: Some of the teams are now following. 397 00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:09,320 Speaker 1: So when you go to the games in Washington or 398 00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:12,359 Speaker 1: Paris or London, are you fans coming up to you 399 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:13,480 Speaker 1: for photos? 400 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:14,400 Speaker 4: Selfies? 401 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:18,120 Speaker 1: For those people that are not very knowledgeab about sports, 402 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:20,959 Speaker 1: why is it more exciting to watch a women's soccer 403 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:23,040 Speaker 1: game than a men's soccer game? 404 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:26,359 Speaker 2: Well, I think you could argue it's a preference, But 405 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 2: I think women's game, I think people will tell you 406 00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:32,240 Speaker 2: they're very different. One could argue there's a lot more 407 00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:38,600 Speaker 2: actually technical, in my opinion, sophistication as opposed to pure 408 00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:43,159 Speaker 2: physical strength. And also the environment in which you play 409 00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:47,480 Speaker 2: men versus women, especially if you've been to a game 410 00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:51,960 Speaker 2: in Europe, there's just clear contrast between the men's game 411 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:52,840 Speaker 2: and women's game. 412 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:55,760 Speaker 1: So right now, as you look at your professional life, 413 00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:59,000 Speaker 1: it's buying sports teams, a lot of them women, and 414 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:01,960 Speaker 1: helping with equipment other things. And do you expect about 415 00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:04,440 Speaker 1: being buying media related things or other kinds of things 416 00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:06,200 Speaker 1: that ancillary to the sports. 417 00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:09,800 Speaker 2: As I said, I bought the cleats, the boots female 418 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:13,879 Speaker 2: that designed specifically for female media company covering only media 419 00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:17,600 Speaker 2: company right now, I'm working on actually data, so all 420 00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:22,080 Speaker 2: the tools for the coaches and the technical staff and 421 00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:25,800 Speaker 2: all that, so using it of course AI, but so data, 422 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:28,719 Speaker 2: which is also my background. So I'm investing in some 423 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:31,720 Speaker 2: of those type of things. But ecosystem has to go 424 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:34,359 Speaker 2: go in together, so I'm investing in that as well. 425 00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:36,720 Speaker 1: Now people come to me all the time now and say, 426 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:38,639 Speaker 1: if you bought a sports team, maybe you'll buy this 427 00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:40,359 Speaker 1: team or that team. And I get a lot of 428 00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:43,280 Speaker 1: offers in the women's sports area, So should I invest 429 00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:50,160 Speaker 1: in volleyball, softball, ice hockey? Any views on those as 430 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:50,840 Speaker 1: women's sports. 431 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:55,119 Speaker 2: My recommendation to everyone is don't wait until it looks 432 00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:57,639 Speaker 2: like it's going to take off, because it's too late, right, 433 00:21:57,720 --> 00:21:59,760 Speaker 2: So you need to go in. You need to have 434 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:03,000 Speaker 2: in something that you believe in when no one else 435 00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:05,159 Speaker 2: is believing in it, and that's the time to go 436 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:07,399 Speaker 2: in as oppose when everyone else is this is the 437 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:09,000 Speaker 2: greatest thing since slice. 438 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:11,679 Speaker 1: Spread And would you encourage other women to get involved 439 00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:13,080 Speaker 1: in women's sports as owners? 440 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:15,359 Speaker 2: Absolutely, And I think that's one of the things that 441 00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 2: I'm hoping to achieve while I'm investing that. If you 442 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:22,520 Speaker 2: look at actually the even women's sports right now, especially 443 00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:24,439 Speaker 2: in the US, quite a few women have come in. 444 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:26,960 Speaker 1: So any more plans anything else you want to do 445 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:30,159 Speaker 1: with your professional career? At this point, You've got sports teams, 446 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:33,680 Speaker 1: you've built a great successful company, You're involved in philanthropy. 447 00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:36,720 Speaker 2: I think I've got my hands full, and so I 448 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:40,200 Speaker 2: still this is all work in progress, right, So I 449 00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:42,879 Speaker 2: want to make sure that this is a legitimate, real 450 00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:46,480 Speaker 2: business that's not charity. That means that there's going to 451 00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:50,280 Speaker 2: be significant revenue stream and the break even and all that. 452 00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:56,280 Speaker 2: A business discipline. So I'm in that process. Also investing 453 00:22:56,320 --> 00:23:00,800 Speaker 2: in women's health and women's performance all that, so all 454 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:04,040 Speaker 2: the different aspects, and I really I'm doing that also 455 00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:09,119 Speaker 2: because there are just so many female successful people with 456 00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:11,920 Speaker 2: lots of money and resources. I want them to all join. 457 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:14,800 Speaker 1: Tell me, are you ever tempted to go try to 458 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:16,760 Speaker 1: start another company like Cognisante? 459 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:18,000 Speaker 4: No, you're done with that. 460 00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:21,000 Speaker 3: I'm done, okay, I don't look back, I look forward. 461 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:25,000 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to hear more of my interviews. You 462 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:29,159 Speaker 1: can subscribe and download my podcast on Spotify, Apple, or 463 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:30,000 Speaker 1: wherever you listen.