WEBVTT - Yolk with Doak 38: Pinehurst 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:02.800 I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset. When 0:00:02.800 --> 0:00:04.920 I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset. 0:00:05.000 --> 0:00:06.920 And when I find my ball in a frid Egg 0:00:07.200 --> 0:00:11.080 Friday Egg, the dreaded Frida Egg Friday, Frida Frida Egg 0:00:11.160 --> 0:00:13.239 Bride Egg Lie, I'm about ready to run off of 0:00:13.320 --> 0:00:13.640 the hump. 0:00:35.680 --> 0:00:39.560 Welcome back to another edition of the Friday Egg podcast 0:00:39.880 --> 0:00:43.559 and a new year. We had podcast up earlier this 0:00:43.600 --> 0:00:45.720 week with Garrett and I, but this is the first 0:00:45.720 --> 0:00:48.000 time I'm doing an intro, so I hope everybody had a. 0:00:47.920 --> 0:00:48.880 Great holiday season. 0:00:49.520 --> 0:00:49.640 Uh. 0:00:49.760 --> 0:00:54.920 We have a podcast kind of almost almost an emergency podcast. 0:00:54.920 --> 0:00:57.520 I wouldn't call it that, but we had been Tom 0:00:57.520 --> 0:01:00.360 and I had been planning on talking before his ravel 0:01:00.440 --> 0:01:03.360 ramp back up, and he had a big announcement this 0:01:03.440 --> 0:01:07.039 week with the news that he will be designing the 0:01:07.160 --> 0:01:11.960 tenth course at Pinehurst, so a new design that I 0:01:12.000 --> 0:01:14.479 was anxious to talk to him about, as well as 0:01:14.480 --> 0:01:17.760 some other stuff. We have another episode of the Yolk 0:01:17.800 --> 0:01:21.680 with Doc coming next week, but this is an episode 0:01:21.800 --> 0:01:25.400 all about his new golf course at Pinehurst, as well 0:01:25.520 --> 0:01:29.440 as just some talk about Pinehurst area in general and 0:01:29.520 --> 0:01:33.640 Pinehurst Number two and just some other stuff. So, without 0:01:33.680 --> 0:01:37.639 further ado, here is Tom Doke on his new golf 0:01:37.680 --> 0:01:46.720 course at Pinehurst. All right, Tom, New Year, I think 0:01:46.760 --> 0:01:50.160 I asked you this last year. Any New Year's resolutions. 0:01:51.920 --> 0:01:54.280 No, I mean, I'm just I've just got I just 0:01:54.280 --> 0:01:56.240 got to try to keep up with everything. 0:01:55.880 --> 0:02:01.800 We're doing, organization, staying organized. It's the way I kind. 0:02:01.640 --> 0:02:05.520 Of saying no to more people. You know, I'm gonna 0:02:05.600 --> 0:02:08.360 have to I'm gonna have to go back to being 0:02:08.400 --> 0:02:10.560 good at saying no to people because all of a sudden, 0:02:10.600 --> 0:02:13.960 we're really busy and there's still calls coming in, and 0:02:14.800 --> 0:02:17.600 you know, I just gotta, you know, for this year 0:02:17.680 --> 0:02:20.919 and next year, it's like, I've got to be as 0:02:21.120 --> 0:02:24.000 efficient with my days as possible or I'll never be 0:02:24.040 --> 0:02:24.480 home at all. 0:02:25.400 --> 0:02:29.000 How hard is it to say no? And like, are 0:02:29.040 --> 0:02:31.720 there things like is there certain things that you just 0:02:31.800 --> 0:02:34.360 can't say no to? Like, what's that like when you're 0:02:34.680 --> 0:02:37.680 at a point right now where you're you're pretty booked. 0:02:38.760 --> 0:02:43.080 Yeah, you know, it's very hard for most people to 0:02:43.120 --> 0:02:46.280 say no. And honestly, on a personal level, it always 0:02:46.320 --> 0:02:49.240 has been for me too. And at the same time, 0:02:50.080 --> 0:02:53.160 you know, I've always understood that, like a lot of 0:02:53.160 --> 0:02:57.800 your reputation is not doing the things that they're not 0:02:57.960 --> 0:03:01.240 for you. You know, if you if you take you know, 0:03:01.240 --> 0:03:04.800 if you take every job you're offered, you're gonna wind 0:03:04.880 --> 0:03:06.799 up in the wrong fit. A lot of times where 0:03:06.840 --> 0:03:08.640 you don't you're not on the same page with the 0:03:08.639 --> 0:03:12.360 client or the land is it doesn't suit your style 0:03:12.480 --> 0:03:15.799 of what you want to do. And the best thing 0:03:15.840 --> 0:03:19.120 to do is just say no to those opportunities and 0:03:19.160 --> 0:03:21.360 not worry about them and let somebody else do that 0:03:21.600 --> 0:03:25.480 and maybe it'll fit them better, you know. And most 0:03:25.520 --> 0:03:27.640 of my career I was always good at that, but 0:03:27.800 --> 0:03:31.320 you know, that's part of how I got the reputation 0:03:31.520 --> 0:03:34.400 I did. You know, I wasn't very good at saying no, 0:03:35.080 --> 0:03:38.080 and I would like you know, and plus I would 0:03:38.080 --> 0:03:42.120 hold off on saying no because you know, you at 0:03:42.120 --> 0:03:43.640 the end of the day, you're trying to do the 0:03:43.640 --> 0:03:46.920 best things you can do at any given time. You know, 0:03:47.040 --> 0:03:49.680 not you don't have a bunch of tens lined up 0:03:49.720 --> 0:03:52.880 to build every year. So is this thing that's going 0:03:52.920 --> 0:03:54.960 to be a seven or an eight? Is that the 0:03:54.960 --> 0:03:57.360 best thing that I can do next year two years 0:03:57.360 --> 0:04:00.680 from now, I don't know. And what other things are 0:04:00.680 --> 0:04:02.840 going to come up after I hang up with this guy. 0:04:03.320 --> 0:04:05.600 I have no clue there might not be any there 0:04:05.680 --> 0:04:08.640 might be a lot of better things. So I would 0:04:08.720 --> 0:04:11.280 try to put off the decision until I needed to 0:04:11.360 --> 0:04:14.280 make it. But that frustrated people, and if I, you know, 0:04:14.520 --> 0:04:16.920 and when I'd say no, I'd be pretty abrupt about it, 0:04:17.080 --> 0:04:19.200 and then they think, oh, he's an asshole, he was 0:04:19.279 --> 0:04:22.440 leading us on or whatever. But it was really just 0:04:22.520 --> 0:04:25.400 my discomfort. I mean, I knew all along I did 0:04:25.640 --> 0:04:28.640 I wanted to say no, and I just didn't know 0:04:28.680 --> 0:04:30.159 how to deliver it very well. 0:04:30.640 --> 0:04:32.240 Saying no is extremely hard. 0:04:32.279 --> 0:04:35.159 I struggle with this too, and I think, like what 0:04:35.200 --> 0:04:37.960 you said really resonates with me because what I like 0:04:38.040 --> 0:04:40.520 to do I like to procrastinate, because it's not I 0:04:40.520 --> 0:04:42.800 don't want to say no. I want to do the thing, 0:04:43.200 --> 0:04:45.320 but I know, like in the back of my head 0:04:45.480 --> 0:04:48.880 an less like something else like falls apart. There's no 0:04:49.040 --> 0:04:51.560 feasible way for me to do it, you know. And 0:04:51.920 --> 0:04:54.400 I think that you run into that, and I, you know, 0:04:54.920 --> 0:04:58.359 that's I joked. I've joked with some of my team 0:04:58.440 --> 0:05:01.000 and some some of my close friend that this year 0:05:01.120 --> 0:05:03.320 is like the year of me saying no, because I 0:05:03.360 --> 0:05:07.200 found myself last year like completely run down and like 0:05:07.720 --> 0:05:11.360 gone for twenty straight days and like what am I doing? 0:05:11.800 --> 0:05:14.159 You know, I'm it's I've spent three weekends in a 0:05:14.240 --> 0:05:17.320 row away from home and this just doesn't seem like 0:05:17.640 --> 0:05:18.680 a smart thing to do. 0:05:19.240 --> 0:05:22.520 Right, And you know, and you're not you know, you're 0:05:22.520 --> 0:05:25.360 not saying yes or no. You're not you're not thinking 0:05:25.400 --> 0:05:27.960 you ought to say yes for other people so much. Yeah, 0:05:28.360 --> 0:05:30.320 you know, when you've got a payroll and you've got 0:05:30.320 --> 0:05:32.680 some guy. You know, for most of my career, my 0:05:32.720 --> 0:05:35.440 guys are like we could handle more, we could do more, 0:05:35.960 --> 0:05:38.520 and I'd be like, yeah, but I can't. And now 0:05:38.560 --> 0:05:41.400 it's like the shoes on the other foot. They're you know, 0:05:41.680 --> 0:05:43.680 they're like, oh no, how are I signing up so 0:05:43.680 --> 0:05:44.880 many things? 0:05:47.440 --> 0:05:49.480 Yeah, it's it's hard. It's it's hard. 0:05:49.720 --> 0:05:51.560 I think the hard thing for you too, is like 0:05:52.680 --> 0:05:55.680 you you don't have the capacity to do a lot, 0:05:56.120 --> 0:05:59.719 you know, like I could go see thirty courses, forty 0:05:59.720 --> 0:06:02.960 fifty courses next year, Like that's something I can do. 0:06:03.520 --> 0:06:06.159 And you know, the volume of yes I get to 0:06:06.160 --> 0:06:09.599 say is much greater than you doing the you know, 0:06:09.800 --> 0:06:14.040 you're like max capacity three four projects at once. 0:06:15.400 --> 0:06:18.360 Well, I don't know. I mean, it depends on how 0:06:18.480 --> 0:06:21.320 much time I want to spend on the ground working 0:06:21.360 --> 0:06:26.760 on the greens. The routings actually come together pretty fast 0:06:26.880 --> 0:06:29.680 these days. Not that you won't change your mind and 0:06:29.720 --> 0:06:31.920 refine it if you go back and spend another three 0:06:32.000 --> 0:06:34.320 or four days on the site between you know, between 0:06:34.320 --> 0:06:36.880 when you first do it and when you get to construction. 0:06:37.520 --> 0:06:41.560 But you know, that's really efficient and and a lot 0:06:41.560 --> 0:06:46.440 of fun. But you know, it's the commitment to going 0:06:46.560 --> 0:06:49.880 back several more times for construction that's the hard one 0:06:49.920 --> 0:06:51.880 to make because you don't know when that's going to be, 0:06:52.839 --> 0:06:54.320 and you don't know how busy you're going to be 0:06:54.360 --> 0:06:57.600 when you have to do that. And you know, I've 0:06:58.080 --> 0:07:00.640 the one thing I've changed about how I do in 0:07:00.720 --> 0:07:03.039 the how I'm doing business now is I'm putting in 0:07:03.080 --> 0:07:07.480 the contracts. You know, after all the planning work, I'm 0:07:07.520 --> 0:07:10.840 getting paid per day that I spend on site, so 0:07:10.880 --> 0:07:14.400 that if I get real busy and I don't have 0:07:14.640 --> 0:07:16.880 you know, I just don't have. I don't have twenty 0:07:16.920 --> 0:07:19.560 five days to be at all these different places. I 0:07:19.560 --> 0:07:24.960 only have twenty or sixteen or whatever. That's what they're 0:07:24.960 --> 0:07:27.800 paying me for, and they can't really you know, I 0:07:27.840 --> 0:07:31.400 didn't promise that i'd be at all of them thirty days, 0:07:31.440 --> 0:07:34.200 and you know, whether I really need to or not, 0:07:34.280 --> 0:07:38.080 I don't know. You know, I mean, letting Eric and 0:07:38.200 --> 0:07:41.360 Angela and Clyde finished Saint Patrick's a couple of years 0:07:41.360 --> 0:07:44.040 ago and me not going back, that was a tough 0:07:44.080 --> 0:07:46.960 decision for me to make. I you know, I nearly 0:07:47.000 --> 0:07:49.080 always go do that, but I just let them do 0:07:49.120 --> 0:07:51.360 it and it turned out great. You know, I'm gonna 0:07:51.360 --> 0:07:53.800 go I'm gonna go back to New Zealand next month 0:07:53.800 --> 0:07:56.720 and see what happened after we shaped up a bunch 0:07:56.720 --> 0:07:59.000 of greens in March and April last year and then 0:07:59.040 --> 0:08:02.160 I left and I go back, and I you know, 0:08:02.400 --> 0:08:04.440 I kind of feel like it's going to be really good. 0:08:05.120 --> 0:08:07.600 And you know, there's probably going to be a couple 0:08:07.600 --> 0:08:11.160 of them that are a little different than I thought, 0:08:11.240 --> 0:08:15.480 but they might be better. So, you know, I'm trying 0:08:15.480 --> 0:08:17.480 to get more comfortable with that because at the end 0:08:17.560 --> 0:08:20.239 of the day, somewhere here in five or ten years, 0:08:20.240 --> 0:08:21.840 I'm not going to want to go do all those 0:08:21.880 --> 0:08:25.040 follow up visits or I'm only going to do them 0:08:25.080 --> 0:08:29.320 if like nothing else is going on. And you know, 0:08:29.400 --> 0:08:32.320 I'm getting more comfortable with that, and you know, I 0:08:32.400 --> 0:08:34.320 just I just have more faith in the people that 0:08:34.360 --> 0:08:36.240 are doing the work that they're going to do a 0:08:36.240 --> 0:08:36.720 great job. 0:08:37.679 --> 0:08:41.600 You know, you're describing like the difficulty of scaling a business, 0:08:41.679 --> 0:08:43.800 you know, where you have to let go of things 0:08:43.960 --> 0:08:47.080 and everything because you know, the thing that I find 0:08:47.160 --> 0:08:50.360 interesting is really like I think one of your big 0:08:50.400 --> 0:08:54.640 differentiators early on was how much time you spend on site. 0:08:54.679 --> 0:08:57.040 And it's not like you're not spending time on site now, 0:08:57.080 --> 0:08:59.640 but it's you know, you can spend a ton of 0:08:59.679 --> 0:09:02.239 time on site when you only have one job. 0:09:03.080 --> 0:09:06.840 Yes, and you know, and you know, and some of 0:09:06.880 --> 0:09:09.959 that time isn't very productive. It's a it's a cool 0:09:10.080 --> 0:09:13.280 thing to a point to have. You know, I got 0:09:13.320 --> 0:09:15.640 a lot of time to think about this, but you know, 0:09:15.679 --> 0:09:18.360 at some point you just become indecisive about what you 0:09:18.400 --> 0:09:22.679 should do and you know you can't. You're not very 0:09:22.679 --> 0:09:25.560 good at keeping things moving along. And there is you know, 0:09:25.840 --> 0:09:29.640 golf course construction there you know, the process of construction 0:09:29.920 --> 0:09:35.040 does teach you to you know, keep going, and that 0:09:35.160 --> 0:09:38.880 there is you know, there are certain decisions that have 0:09:38.960 --> 0:09:40.559 to be made, and you just can't put this off 0:09:40.600 --> 0:09:43.640 in definitely, although it's funny. Sometimes it's like, you know, 0:09:43.679 --> 0:09:46.280 the contractor will insist we got to finish this hole 0:09:46.360 --> 0:09:48.800 this week, and it's like, no, you don't. I mean 0:09:48.840 --> 0:09:52.080 we could go I'm not comfortable with this today. You know, 0:09:52.320 --> 0:09:54.720 we could go finish those two holes. Well, I'm still 0:09:54.760 --> 0:09:56.880 thinking about this, and you know, you don't want to 0:09:56.920 --> 0:09:58.720 be doing that for all the holes all the time. 0:09:58.920 --> 0:10:01.120 But sometimes that's the thing to do, is just say now, 0:10:01.880 --> 0:10:05.080 stop there, let's go do this and give me more 0:10:05.080 --> 0:10:05.480 time on this. 0:10:06.480 --> 0:10:07.400 It's interesting. 0:10:07.480 --> 0:10:11.240 I remembercalling right now a conversation I had with Bill 0:10:11.320 --> 0:10:15.280 Corr last year on the podcast where I think one 0:10:15.320 --> 0:10:18.760 of his big takeaways from COVID, and it was I 0:10:18.840 --> 0:10:23.560 think it was with regards to Tari. Yeah, was how 0:10:24.160 --> 0:10:29.000 how competent and how like how good the course turned 0:10:29.040 --> 0:10:32.360 out with how little he was there because of COVID. 0:10:32.840 --> 0:10:35.679 Like he was like, I think I think Riley Johnson, 0:10:36.040 --> 0:10:39.280 I can't remember who else was there. He was like, yeah, 0:10:39.320 --> 0:10:42.320 he's like those guys did such an amazing job. And 0:10:42.360 --> 0:10:44.360 I'm walking around and I'm like, I don't know if 0:10:44.360 --> 0:10:46.640 it would be any better if I spent so much time. 0:10:46.679 --> 0:10:49.360 And I think, I mean that goes to like having 0:10:49.400 --> 0:10:52.439 the best people working for you is an extremely important 0:10:52.520 --> 0:10:55.319 aspect of if you're going to take some time away 0:10:55.360 --> 0:10:57.920 as having people that you trust in those positions to 0:10:57.960 --> 0:10:58.319 take on. 0:10:58.400 --> 0:11:02.080 Absolutely And you know, and and Bill's the same as me. 0:11:02.240 --> 0:11:05.680 We've we've had those people for the last twenty years, yeah, 0:11:05.679 --> 0:11:08.720 twenty five years. And it's like, you know, some people 0:11:08.760 --> 0:11:12.280 know who they are, but you know, everyone as long 0:11:12.320 --> 0:11:15.280 as we're kind of in charge, everybody just assumes at 0:11:15.280 --> 0:11:16.640 the end of the day, you know, we're the one 0:11:16.679 --> 0:11:19.079 who made all the cool decisions. And no, a lot 0:11:19.120 --> 0:11:21.760 of times we're just like, you know, we gave that 0:11:21.840 --> 0:11:24.560 guy room to run over there. And you know, like 0:11:25.120 --> 0:11:27.480 I mean, if you go to Saint Patrick's, what are 0:11:27.520 --> 0:11:31.000 the holes at Saint Patrick's that people have talked to 0:11:31.040 --> 0:11:34.319 me the most about. One of them is the eleventh. 0:11:34.360 --> 0:11:37.120 It has a really wild green. It's got like a 0:11:37.280 --> 0:11:40.160 trough in the middle and a shelf on the left 0:11:40.160 --> 0:11:43.080 and a crazy little high shelf on the right. And 0:11:43.120 --> 0:11:46.760 that's not mine at all, that's Clott And you know, 0:11:46.800 --> 0:11:48.520 when I you know, when I got back and saw 0:11:48.559 --> 0:11:50.600 what he'd done. I kind of dipped my lip and 0:11:50.640 --> 0:11:54.400 I was like, man, that's that is really severe, and 0:11:54.520 --> 0:11:57.680 I'm going to get chewed out for this. And it's 0:11:57.720 --> 0:12:01.600 you know, it's not even my idea. But it's cool, 0:12:02.520 --> 0:12:05.120 you know, I just got to get comfortable with it's 0:12:05.200 --> 0:12:09.520 playable and we'll take the heat for it. And you know, 0:12:09.720 --> 0:12:11.120 and the other one, you know, one of the other 0:12:11.160 --> 0:12:14.040 ones is the sixth the part five that has a 0:12:14.040 --> 0:12:16.440 little it has an elevated green with a little ridge 0:12:16.480 --> 0:12:19.480 just in front of it. So it's really hard, you know, 0:12:19.920 --> 0:12:24.240 downwind you have to land it short onto an upslope 0:12:24.280 --> 0:12:27.280 and get it to screwed up there somehow, you know, 0:12:27.360 --> 0:12:29.240 into the wind. Maybe you can fly it on the green, 0:12:29.280 --> 0:12:32.240 but you're not getting home in two. That's the one 0:12:32.280 --> 0:12:34.880 green that we couldn't finish when I was there because 0:12:35.600 --> 0:12:39.079 we had all the stockpile of we were screening materials 0:12:39.120 --> 0:12:42.520 there for the whole job. So Eric had to build 0:12:42.559 --> 0:12:48.280 that one after I left. And it's nothing like I visualized, 0:12:49.000 --> 0:12:52.520 but it's a really cool green. And and again it's like, 0:12:52.559 --> 0:12:53.880 you know, I saw it when I went back and 0:12:54.000 --> 0:12:56.320 my first you know, it was done at that point, 0:12:56.400 --> 0:12:58.200 you know, they're just getting ready to open. And my 0:12:58.240 --> 0:13:01.920 first impression was like, oh, man, that's really severe. We 0:13:02.000 --> 0:13:04.040 might have to tone that down a little some way 0:13:04.080 --> 0:13:07.480 after you in a year or two, and you know, 0:13:07.600 --> 0:13:10.280 but I was like, I'm not going to overreact now, 0:13:10.480 --> 0:13:12.600 you know. Let's see what people think of it. And 0:13:12.720 --> 0:13:15.839 people love it. Most people love it. Some people think 0:13:15.840 --> 0:13:17.360 it's way too severe. 0:13:18.040 --> 0:13:21.199 Oh that's good. It makes people feel different things. 0:13:21.480 --> 0:13:24.960 Hey, let's talk about a new project just announced this 0:13:25.080 --> 0:13:29.840 week of this week of recording Pinehurst number ten. You 0:13:29.920 --> 0:13:34.839 will be designing a new golf course at Pinehurst and 0:13:34.960 --> 0:13:37.440 it will be, from what I understand, in habit a 0:13:37.480 --> 0:13:41.800 little bit of a course they had years ago called 0:13:41.800 --> 0:13:46.240 the Pit, but then mostly beyond a new property that 0:13:46.400 --> 0:13:48.400 hasn't been built on before. 0:13:49.679 --> 0:13:52.720 Tell us a little bit about the land. 0:13:54.600 --> 0:13:59.079 Yes, it's actually on two different pieces of property. Part 0:13:59.240 --> 0:14:01.959 on the the Pit was a Dan Maples course that 0:14:02.080 --> 0:14:05.760 was kind of like Tobacco Road before Tobacco Rode, except 0:14:05.800 --> 0:14:09.280 it was a really narrow version of that really narrow version. 0:14:09.840 --> 0:14:14.040 And so after Tobacco Road opened, it kind of floundered. 0:14:14.160 --> 0:14:16.040 I mean, all of a sudden, it was like, you know, 0:14:16.040 --> 0:14:18.880 why would you play this instead of going to that. 0:14:18.960 --> 0:14:21.520 It's all so much a bigger scale and it you know, 0:14:21.560 --> 0:14:23.960 and then two thousand and eight hit and it faded 0:14:24.000 --> 0:14:27.040 pretty fast after that, so that you know, the resort 0:14:27.120 --> 0:14:29.040 wound up. You know, it's two miles from the resort. 0:14:29.120 --> 0:14:31.240 They were obviously the ones who wound up buying that. 0:14:31.840 --> 0:14:34.720 But the other piece of land was something if I 0:14:34.800 --> 0:14:38.400 understand the history right, Robert and Jones owned it for 0:14:38.600 --> 0:14:43.280 years and the family sold it to the resort on 0:14:43.360 --> 0:14:47.200 a condition that one of the Joneses would do the 0:14:47.200 --> 0:14:51.080 golf course. And in two thousand and one they started 0:14:51.120 --> 0:14:54.080 doing that golf course. Rhys Jones had started building a 0:14:54.120 --> 0:14:58.680 course on part of this property and they cleared. They 0:14:58.680 --> 0:15:01.560 didn't get very far and then nine to eleven happened 0:15:01.560 --> 0:15:05.520 and that shut it down, and it's just been sitting 0:15:05.600 --> 0:15:07.600 there for the last twenty years. You could barely to 0:15:07.960 --> 0:15:09.800 I honestly, I was shocked when I heard that they 0:15:09.920 --> 0:15:12.840 cleared some of it, because when you're walking it, it's 0:15:12.880 --> 0:15:15.640 just thick woods. And actually, you know, the part that 0:15:15.680 --> 0:15:17.920 they cleared, it had twenty years to grow back, and 0:15:18.000 --> 0:15:22.240 it's the woods are thicker, you know, the trees are smaller, 0:15:22.280 --> 0:15:24.800 and you can tell now, you know. Once they told 0:15:24.880 --> 0:15:26.840 me that, it's like, oh yeah, this must be something 0:15:26.840 --> 0:15:29.360 they cleared and has grown back because the trees are 0:15:29.400 --> 0:15:31.200 just super thick and not very big. 0:15:31.600 --> 0:15:34.360 That makes sense because there's there's not as much like 0:15:34.440 --> 0:15:36.880 when the trees get tall, there's only so much can 0:15:36.880 --> 0:15:40.160 grow under it. But when they're really small that yeah, 0:15:40.240 --> 0:15:42.320 there's just a ton right And you know, I. 0:15:42.240 --> 0:15:44.520 Mean all of that land is like logging land. So 0:15:44.520 --> 0:15:47.520 the older stuff has been thinned out a couple of times, 0:15:47.520 --> 0:15:49.800 but the newer stuff they really hadn't done much out 0:15:49.800 --> 0:15:50.800 there for twenty years now. 0:15:52.520 --> 0:15:55.920 So what's the site like in terms of how how 0:15:55.920 --> 0:15:58.400 would you compare it? Obviously, I think one of the 0:15:58.440 --> 0:16:01.720 things that's unique about Pinehurst is a lot of people 0:16:01.800 --> 0:16:04.240 have gone down and played a lot of courses down there, 0:16:04.640 --> 0:16:09.080 and I'm curious about the topography the land and how 0:16:09.120 --> 0:16:13.880 it compares to other courses and properties in the area. 0:16:15.040 --> 0:16:18.160 Right. Well, I mean, and you know, it's a little 0:16:18.200 --> 0:16:21.080 hard for me because I haven't seen there's a there's 0:16:21.120 --> 0:16:23.960 a bunch of fairly new courses there that I haven't 0:16:24.000 --> 0:16:28.240 seen much of, but like I've never been to Forest Creek. 0:16:28.360 --> 0:16:33.840 Is it the two Fassio courses. But so the first 0:16:33.880 --> 0:16:36.920 thing is the pit. A good portion of the pit 0:16:37.160 --> 0:16:40.840 was on this like old quarry works that with a 0:16:40.880 --> 0:16:45.880 bunch of ten fifteen foot piles of material. That is 0:16:46.000 --> 0:16:48.960 not the part of the pit that we're working on. 0:16:49.280 --> 0:16:53.240 That's they'll do another golf course on that land, you know, 0:16:53.480 --> 0:16:57.240 five years from now or something like that. But so, 0:16:57.960 --> 0:16:59.840 you know, the part that we got, the first few 0:16:59.840 --> 0:17:04.120 home of the pit were kind of over more gentle pineers, 0:17:04.240 --> 0:17:08.480 kind of parkland stuff, and you know, so we've got 0:17:08.520 --> 0:17:11.920 three or four holes in that land, and then we're 0:17:11.960 --> 0:17:14.800 across on the other site where there's you know, much 0:17:14.840 --> 0:17:19.080 big you know, big tree, big pine trees, more elevation change, 0:17:19.800 --> 0:17:22.920 a couple of little ponds that I think they might have. 0:17:23.280 --> 0:17:25.320 I think they actually might have built the ponds for 0:17:25.359 --> 0:17:28.160 the Rhys Jones course, but they're you know, they're kind 0:17:28.160 --> 0:17:31.920 of they're not really big ponds, and they're in the woods, 0:17:31.960 --> 0:17:36.320 you know, just surrounded by big trees. So you know, 0:17:36.440 --> 0:17:39.640 the cool thing is at this point they don't really 0:17:39.680 --> 0:17:41.840 look like a golf course pond that you'd have built 0:17:41.880 --> 0:17:45.320 too much, you know, because it's it's all naturalized around them, 0:17:45.920 --> 0:17:50.000 and you know, and we're being pretty careful when we play, 0:17:50.480 --> 0:17:54.080 you know, kind of our fifteenth and seventeenth holes play 0:17:54.119 --> 0:17:58.280 with those ponds in play, and golf is only kind 0:17:58.280 --> 0:18:01.080 of on one side of the pond, you know, it 0:18:01.119 --> 0:18:03.480 only touches the pond in one or two spots, so 0:18:03.520 --> 0:18:07.320 it doesn't feel like your typical golf course pond where 0:18:07.359 --> 0:18:11.360 there's fairways on both sides, you know. Overall though, I mean, 0:18:11.640 --> 0:18:16.000 it's there's more elevation change than any of the resources 0:18:16.119 --> 0:18:18.640 courses that I know of. I've never seen number eight, 0:18:18.800 --> 0:18:22.520 but there's something like ninety or one hundred feet elevation 0:18:22.680 --> 0:18:25.080 change from the highest point to the lowest point, and 0:18:25.119 --> 0:18:27.520 it kind of works, and it kind of works from 0:18:27.560 --> 0:18:35.000 the clubhouse up the hill, so the turn is it's 0:18:35.080 --> 0:18:37.240 not like straight out and straight back with the turn 0:18:37.359 --> 0:18:40.280 is kind of about the farthest point from the clubhouse 0:18:40.720 --> 0:18:43.720 and up the highest point and from up there, the 0:18:44.200 --> 0:18:46.000 three or four holes that play up there, I think 0:18:46.000 --> 0:18:49.200 you're going to have like some great views across part 0:18:49.200 --> 0:18:51.399 of the rest of the golf course down across the valley, 0:18:52.760 --> 0:18:54.760 so you know, I think that'll give it a different 0:18:55.600 --> 0:18:59.840 feel than the other courses at Pinehurst. You know, with 0:18:59.840 --> 0:19:02.960 that much elevation change, you know, we're still working out 0:19:03.080 --> 0:19:07.080 like how much how much of this open sand look 0:19:07.160 --> 0:19:10.600 can we have out there, because you know, open sand 0:19:10.640 --> 0:19:13.280 on flat ground is fine, but open sand on steep 0:19:13.359 --> 0:19:18.119 ground is erosion and problems. So you know, I don't 0:19:18.320 --> 0:19:20.960 I don't necessarily think we're you know, we're not out 0:19:21.000 --> 0:19:23.360 to try to make it look like tobacco road or 0:19:23.480 --> 0:19:25.760 or you know, it's even hard to really you know. 0:19:26.240 --> 0:19:28.440 You know, if I said I wanted to do Piner's 0:19:28.480 --> 0:19:30.879 number two again, which I'm not trying to copy Piner's 0:19:30.920 --> 0:19:33.760 number two obviously, you know you couldn't really do it 0:19:33.800 --> 0:19:37.359 on this site. You know, those those those sandy open 0:19:37.400 --> 0:19:39.800 areas on number two works so well because it's fairly 0:19:39.840 --> 0:19:43.720 flat and the water doesn't keep running and keep making 0:19:43.720 --> 0:19:46.400 an erosion thing. There's just a bunch of little puddles 0:19:46.440 --> 0:19:49.199 that go down into the sand really fast. 0:19:50.040 --> 0:19:50.240 Yeah. 0:19:50.280 --> 0:19:53.760 I was recently out at a course that you had 0:19:53.800 --> 0:19:56.000 a part in the tree Farm and it's a it's 0:19:56.040 --> 0:19:59.200 a pretty dramatic site and I was out there when 0:19:59.400 --> 0:20:01.520 on a during a heavy rain, and one of the 0:20:01.560 --> 0:20:05.320 cool things that it's not finished yet in terms of 0:20:05.400 --> 0:20:09.679 all the native planting in those open sandy areas, and 0:20:09.720 --> 0:20:13.640 you could just see the erosion issues that it presents, 0:20:13.680 --> 0:20:16.280 like the sand and open because the water is gonna go. 0:20:16.520 --> 0:20:19.920 And it's amazing how you know, how water just can 0:20:20.040 --> 0:20:22.080 rip across a dramatic property. 0:20:22.359 --> 0:20:24.119 So what type of things can. 0:20:24.000 --> 0:20:28.960 You do to create a you know, that type of 0:20:29.040 --> 0:20:32.200 contrast and aesthetic but prevent erosion. 0:20:34.160 --> 0:20:36.720 Well, I mean the first thing is the more the 0:20:36.800 --> 0:20:40.359 more of it you leave in kind of the native state, 0:20:41.400 --> 0:20:46.320 you know, pine straw underneath trees, kind of breaking up, 0:20:47.800 --> 0:20:51.520 cushioning the blow sort of. You know, there's there's not 0:20:51.560 --> 0:20:53.480 a lot of erosion out there right now on the 0:20:53.600 --> 0:20:57.560 raw land. It's when you clear a fairway open and 0:20:57.600 --> 0:21:00.480 you get all the water that's raining on that fairway 0:21:00.600 --> 0:21:04.480 coming down one valley. You know what, as soon as 0:21:04.520 --> 0:21:07.879 it leaves the turf wherever, that's where the problem is. 0:21:08.200 --> 0:21:10.359 You know, on the turf, it's probably gonna be okay, 0:21:10.440 --> 0:21:14.719 unless unless there's concentrated water coming from another hole up above. 0:21:15.560 --> 0:21:18.639 So you know, so we'll have to do more, like 0:21:19.320 --> 0:21:22.160 you know, we'll have to do some big drainage work 0:21:22.640 --> 0:21:26.720 to stop you know, to stop stuff where it's either 0:21:26.720 --> 0:21:29.119 where it's coming onto the hole or where it's going off. 0:21:30.240 --> 0:21:33.479 So is is that like making you know, if I 0:21:33.560 --> 0:21:37.679 understand that right, like doing earthwork outside the hole to 0:21:37.800 --> 0:21:40.800 divert water different directions. 0:21:40.880 --> 0:21:44.080 Yeah, sometimes, but you know you can't really. I mean, 0:21:44.680 --> 0:21:47.119 if water is coming down toward the fairway of a 0:21:47.200 --> 0:21:50.320 part four, it's there's no way, you know, it's not 0:21:50.400 --> 0:21:53.280 easy to divert it all the way around that You're 0:21:53.320 --> 0:21:55.880 going to have to handle it somewhere. So so you're 0:21:55.960 --> 0:21:58.920 just you're kind of making a pocket there, and it's 0:21:58.960 --> 0:22:03.440 probably not above the hole, you know, it's probably kind 0:22:03.480 --> 0:22:05.960 of at the edge of the hole. You're catching the 0:22:06.000 --> 0:22:11.040 water there in turf, and you know, just letting the 0:22:11.080 --> 0:22:14.119 water you know, either putting it a pipe and taking 0:22:14.160 --> 0:22:18.240 it to a pond or or just letting it settle 0:22:18.280 --> 0:22:21.119 out right there and dealing with the problem at the 0:22:21.240 --> 0:22:23.520 edge of the hole and not letting it come ripping 0:22:23.520 --> 0:22:24.600 across the middle of the carara. 0:22:25.000 --> 0:22:27.679 So that's that's kind of how you would avoid having 0:22:28.000 --> 0:22:31.080 lots of like basins in play right. 0:22:32.480 --> 0:22:32.920 With it. 0:22:33.119 --> 0:22:35.440 With it we talked a little bit obviously the sthetic, 0:22:35.680 --> 0:22:39.240 you know, the elevation the land will be different in 0:22:39.680 --> 0:22:43.880 the sense of design, you know, especially with number two. 0:22:44.080 --> 0:22:46.520 Obviously that's like the elephant in the room whenever you 0:22:46.560 --> 0:22:50.080 talk about Pinehurst, how do you go about making a 0:22:50.160 --> 0:22:53.040 course that has a different feel and and is it 0:22:53.240 --> 0:22:57.040 feels unique from a design standpoint at at a resort 0:22:57.119 --> 0:23:00.800 that has our a nine golf courses and surrounding area 0:23:01.119 --> 0:23:04.960 that also has you know, midpines, pine needles, Tobacco Road 0:23:04.960 --> 0:23:07.439 as you've talked about, how do you go about making 0:23:07.520 --> 0:23:11.160 a unique design in an area that is very rich 0:23:11.200 --> 0:23:11.719 with golf. 0:23:13.240 --> 0:23:15.600 Well that's a sixty four thousand dollars question, isn't it. 0:23:15.640 --> 0:23:18.920 I mean, you know, you know, and it's going to 0:23:19.000 --> 0:23:21.320 take you know, exactly what we're gonna do, I can't 0:23:21.359 --> 0:23:23.399 tell you yet. That's what the next two months are for, 0:23:23.600 --> 0:23:25.600 is kind of figuring out, you know, what are we 0:23:25.640 --> 0:23:28.840 doing to make this look a little different. But you know, 0:23:28.880 --> 0:23:32.919 the interesting thing about Pinehurst is, you know, it's not 0:23:33.119 --> 0:23:35.800 like it's all monotone at all. I mean, pine needles 0:23:35.800 --> 0:23:39.879 and mid Pines aren't exactly like number two. But you know, 0:23:39.960 --> 0:23:42.520 there is sort of a you know, I mean a 0:23:42.520 --> 0:23:45.200 certain part of it is just the environment. It's sandy, 0:23:45.240 --> 0:23:48.199 it's these certain things grow in this area that you 0:23:48.240 --> 0:23:52.200 know that wiregrass is like fairly unique to Pinehurst. You're 0:23:52.200 --> 0:23:54.280 not going to have a golf course in Pinehurst without 0:23:54.320 --> 0:23:59.120 some of that. But you know, but you know, most 0:23:59.160 --> 0:24:02.199 of those golf courses were designed by Donald Ross. So 0:24:05.040 --> 0:24:08.800 if I'm looking to you know, you know, if I'm 0:24:08.840 --> 0:24:11.040 gonna say, well, my my greens are going to be 0:24:11.119 --> 0:24:15.200 like some other architect from the past. If you don't 0:24:15.240 --> 0:24:17.320 pick Donald Ross, you're off to a really good start. 0:24:18.320 --> 0:24:21.160 You know, anybody else It's like they don't have much 0:24:21.200 --> 0:24:24.199 of that there. You know, one of the things I 0:24:24.240 --> 0:24:27.359 really looked for on this site because Number two is 0:24:27.400 --> 0:24:32.000 famous for having those those raised saucer greens, and I 0:24:32.440 --> 0:24:34.479 thought about the other courses I've seen there. It's like, 0:24:34.720 --> 0:24:38.720 you know what they don't have They I can't except 0:24:38.760 --> 0:24:41.600 for maybe Tobacco Road, none of those courses have a 0:24:41.640 --> 0:24:43.920 green kind of in a bowl, even a little one. 0:24:44.520 --> 0:24:48.600 So we've got three or four, you know, I found 0:24:48.640 --> 0:24:51.560 these little these little places, and you know, it had 0:24:51.600 --> 0:24:53.919 to be kind of like right, it had to be 0:24:53.960 --> 0:24:56.359 a place where not all the drainage goes into that bowl. 0:24:56.840 --> 0:24:59.159 It had to be kind of in a saddle. And 0:24:59.359 --> 0:25:01.480 we managed to find three or four really good ones 0:25:02.720 --> 0:25:05.800 that you know. There's no green sites like those on 0:25:05.840 --> 0:25:08.160 any of the other Pioneers courses, so that's a good start. 0:25:20.160 --> 0:25:22.880 Now for a quick word from our sponsor, and our 0:25:22.960 --> 0:25:27.640 sponsor is Club TFE. We launched a new membership. It's 0:25:27.640 --> 0:25:32.040 a new content membership. It's called Club TFE and it 0:25:32.160 --> 0:25:35.119 is for people that want more content from us. So 0:25:35.640 --> 0:25:38.600 we've had the website up and running for just about 0:25:38.640 --> 0:25:42.840 a week now and it's humming. So we've had daily posts. 0:25:43.280 --> 0:25:45.879 We've had a couple of course reviews. So over the 0:25:45.880 --> 0:25:47.439 course of the year we're going to do a weekly 0:25:47.480 --> 0:25:51.280 course review. The Club TFE blog will have you know 0:25:51.680 --> 0:25:54.680 pretty much. I don't want to promise daily, but right 0:25:54.720 --> 0:25:58.960 now we're putting out daily stuff on that, daily articles, 0:26:00.119 --> 0:26:03.680 and then we are going to have a monthly hangout 0:26:03.880 --> 0:26:05.399 and a monthly video. 0:26:05.520 --> 0:26:06.479 So the videos up. 0:26:06.520 --> 0:26:09.560 It's on the twelfth hole at Tree Farm, the construction 0:26:09.680 --> 0:26:12.720 of the twelfth hole at Tree Farm, and we've got 0:26:12.760 --> 0:26:15.160 a ton of good stuff on there. I think it'll 0:26:15.200 --> 0:26:18.800 be something you'll look back on a year out and say, man, 0:26:18.840 --> 0:26:22.000 I'm glad I put my money into that. So we 0:26:22.080 --> 0:26:25.040 hope to see you in club TF To join, go 0:26:25.119 --> 0:26:28.359 to the frieda egg dot com slash membership and you 0:26:28.400 --> 0:26:31.320 can read all about all the details of this membership 0:26:31.600 --> 0:26:35.440 and sign up there if you're interested. Now back to 0:26:35.440 --> 0:26:46.280 Tom Doak with regards to number two. I'd love to 0:26:46.440 --> 0:26:48.640 hear I don't think we've ever really talked about it 0:26:49.280 --> 0:26:52.840 on the podcast, but I'd love to hear your thoughts 0:26:52.840 --> 0:26:57.399 on what makes it great a great golf course and also, 0:26:57.680 --> 0:27:01.119 you know the importance of Bill Core and Ben Crenshaw's 0:27:01.160 --> 0:27:07.480 restoration there were in terms of golf golf course architecture. 0:27:08.080 --> 0:27:10.920 Well you know, I mean I always had that as 0:27:10.920 --> 0:27:13.199 a ten and The Confidential Guide is one of my 0:27:13.240 --> 0:27:15.199 favorite golf courses, and that was probably of all the 0:27:15.359 --> 0:27:17.159 of all the courses I rated at ten, that was 0:27:17.200 --> 0:27:18.920 the one I would get the most flak back from 0:27:18.920 --> 0:27:21.520 people like, oh, I don't understand why you've got that 0:27:21.640 --> 0:27:24.160 rated so highly. It's like all the greens are the same, 0:27:24.240 --> 0:27:27.520 they're so severe, and no they're not. They're not the 0:27:27.560 --> 0:27:29.720 same greens at all. I mean, the conturing of those 0:27:29.760 --> 0:27:33.199 greens is it's all why you know, none of them 0:27:33.240 --> 0:27:37.359 are easy, but there they've all got their own character. 0:27:37.440 --> 0:27:40.399 That's why it's such an interesting golf course. And you know, 0:27:40.520 --> 0:27:42.960 part of the interest is that that sort of evolved 0:27:43.000 --> 0:27:46.359 over time. I don't you know, those greens weren't that 0:27:46.640 --> 0:27:49.960 high and that severe when they were built. That kept 0:27:50.000 --> 0:27:55.080 evolving as they get top dressed more and and but 0:27:55.680 --> 0:27:57.639 you know, that kind of evolved with the rest of 0:27:57.640 --> 0:28:00.399 the game getting easier. So they they just that the 0:28:00.480 --> 0:28:03.680 greens evolve and be more difficult to balance that out 0:28:03.680 --> 0:28:07.560 a little bit. But you know, to me, the best 0:28:07.720 --> 0:28:10.320 what's so great about the golf course is, first of all, 0:28:10.320 --> 0:28:14.480 there's just a ton of short game interest and most critically, 0:28:15.440 --> 0:28:18.639 you know, the short game stuff is like, you know, 0:28:19.200 --> 0:28:22.080 it's hard anywhere you miss the greens, but if you 0:28:22.119 --> 0:28:25.919 go around any of those greens, it's like, okay, I 0:28:25.920 --> 0:28:30.040 can maybe you know, make par at least get my 0:28:30.119 --> 0:28:32.440 ball back up on the green if I miss over here. 0:28:32.760 --> 0:28:36.600 But if I miss over there, I'll be lucky just 0:28:36.640 --> 0:28:38.880 to get the ball back up on the putting surface. 0:28:39.480 --> 0:28:42.120 So you know, now there's a lot of strategy to it. 0:28:42.120 --> 0:28:45.360 It's like you got to think about where, you know, 0:28:46.480 --> 0:28:49.440 if you got to play a little defensively and think about, okay, 0:28:49.480 --> 0:28:52.200 where can I not miss and that's you know, that's 0:28:52.240 --> 0:28:56.280 really hard to do without thinking negatively. You know, you 0:28:56.320 --> 0:28:58.400 can't be thinking that way in your mind. You have 0:28:58.440 --> 0:29:00.840 to be thinking about I'm playing the left front of 0:29:00.840 --> 0:29:03.640 the green because that's the one place I can get 0:29:03.720 --> 0:29:08.320 up and down if I if I miss and and 0:29:08.480 --> 0:29:10.520 you know so and the other thing about the golf 0:29:10.520 --> 0:29:14.959 course generally the best place to miss is short, is 0:29:15.160 --> 0:29:17.360 short and straight right in front. You know, if you're 0:29:17.400 --> 0:29:19.400 if you're right in front of the green and kind 0:29:19.440 --> 0:29:23.400 of chipping onto the length of it, you know, you mean, 0:29:23.520 --> 0:29:26.600 you may never you may not get it close very much, 0:29:26.680 --> 0:29:28.880 but you're you know, you're less likely to be playing 0:29:28.960 --> 0:29:30.920 hockey back and forth across the green. 0:29:30.960 --> 0:29:34.000 I think. And that's what makes it so playable, for 0:29:34.200 --> 0:29:35.520 like playable. 0:29:35.640 --> 0:29:37.560 And that's also what you know, that's what makes it 0:29:37.600 --> 0:29:40.280 a great golf course. Is you know your mom can 0:29:40.360 --> 0:29:43.360 do that. Yes, as long as she hits it straight, 0:29:45.400 --> 0:29:49.920 she's rewarded for that consistently. Anybody that hits it straight 0:29:50.080 --> 0:29:55.080 is rewarded fairly consistently. It's missing a green to the sides, 0:29:55.160 --> 0:29:59.360 it's gonna hurt you. And like, you know, the better 0:29:59.480 --> 0:30:03.640 you are further away, you're trying to do that. That's 0:30:03.960 --> 0:30:06.760 kind of a good solution to that problem of you know, 0:30:07.000 --> 0:30:10.760 how do I keep it interesting for the better player. 0:30:10.920 --> 0:30:13.200 It's like, no, there, now they're you know, they're they're 0:30:13.240 --> 0:30:15.560 taking that risk from two hundred and thirty yards on 0:30:15.640 --> 0:30:16.280 a par five. 0:30:17.680 --> 0:30:19.280 Yeah, I mean great players. 0:30:19.640 --> 0:30:22.760 I think like the better the iron player is, the 0:30:22.840 --> 0:30:26.120 more dialed in they are distance control wise, where the 0:30:26.120 --> 0:30:29.680 way they miss is right and left. Yes, So if 0:30:29.720 --> 0:30:32.000 you're if you if there's a golf going, and that's 0:30:32.080 --> 0:30:35.040 what I think pine I think Jeff Ogilvie said on 0:30:35.080 --> 0:30:37.120 this podcast. He's like, you could put me in the 0:30:37.120 --> 0:30:40.480 middle of the fairway on every hole and I'd be 0:30:40.600 --> 0:30:44.479 really happy if we were sitting at the bar afterwards. 0:30:43.840 --> 0:30:46.040 And I hit twelve out of eighteen greens. 0:30:46.320 --> 0:30:48.320 And I think that and he's and I think that's 0:30:48.400 --> 0:30:50.920 kind of the magic of it is that you know, 0:30:51.080 --> 0:30:55.280 I played once with a like a twenty plus handicap. 0:30:55.440 --> 0:30:58.200 Is this old guy I hit it down the middle 0:30:58.360 --> 0:31:02.680 the first three or four hole. This guy like was 0:31:02.760 --> 0:31:05.480 just dinking it along and he was like one under 0:31:05.800 --> 0:31:07.280 and I was two or three over. 0:31:08.520 --> 0:31:12.320 Any guy. Ian Andrew tells his story about you know, 0:31:12.360 --> 0:31:14.440 going there with his dad, and his dad just kicked 0:31:14.480 --> 0:31:19.120 his ass and he was all frustrated about it afterwards, 0:31:19.160 --> 0:31:21.480 and his dad's like, you're not learning anything, are you. 0:31:22.560 --> 0:31:25.160 It was, it was, but that's you know, one of 0:31:25.200 --> 0:31:27.760 the stories I remember about it when they you know, 0:31:28.520 --> 0:31:30.240 I think it was the Tour champ when they first 0:31:30.240 --> 0:31:32.600 started the Tour Championship, they played it there for. 0:31:32.600 --> 0:31:36.640 They used to have a eight round tournament there. 0:31:37.000 --> 0:31:40.400 No, that was, yeah, I know about that, but no, 0:31:40.760 --> 0:31:44.520 like in the in the nineties I think, or maybe 0:31:44.560 --> 0:31:47.960 the late eighties, they they used it for the Tour 0:31:48.120 --> 0:31:50.320 Championship the first couple of years, and so there's only 0:31:50.360 --> 0:31:52.320 like thirty players in the field at the end of 0:31:52.320 --> 0:31:55.320 the year, and basically if you weren't in the top 0:31:56.360 --> 0:31:59.360 eight or ten, you made the same money. You know, 0:31:59.440 --> 0:32:03.240 everybody was making money for showing up. And the prize, 0:32:03.280 --> 0:32:05.120 you know, the prize money was stacked to the top 0:32:05.200 --> 0:32:05.760 because it's. 0:32:05.680 --> 0:32:09.000 Last nineteen ninety one. In nineteen ninety two they played 0:32:09.040 --> 0:32:09.400 it there. 0:32:09.720 --> 0:32:12.800 Okay, yeah, that makes sense. So so those two years 0:32:13.240 --> 0:32:15.360 I was, I wasn't there. I was just some A 0:32:15.360 --> 0:32:18.200 friend told me that like the last two days of 0:32:18.240 --> 0:32:21.200 the tournament, the guys that weren't in contention. They just 0:32:21.320 --> 0:32:23.680 deliberately played to the front edge of the greens like 0:32:23.800 --> 0:32:26.840 all day so they wouldn't embarrass themselves. It's just like 0:32:27.120 --> 0:32:29.000 I'll just get to hear a chip up and make 0:32:29.080 --> 0:32:31.720 par and get out, you know, and not shoot seventy eight. 0:32:33.240 --> 0:32:33.800 It's amazing. 0:32:34.280 --> 0:32:37.280 It was Craig Saddler and Paul Aziger won won those 0:32:37.320 --> 0:32:42.040 two tour championships, and obviously then Yeah, so in terms 0:32:42.040 --> 0:32:45.560 of that restoration, you saw that course. I remember you 0:32:45.640 --> 0:32:47.959 saying you saw it really early on in life. And 0:32:48.000 --> 0:32:50.520 then you know, obviously before and after that Core and 0:32:50.600 --> 0:32:53.880 Crunchhaw restoration, you know, you already had thought of it 0:32:53.960 --> 0:32:55.800 as a ten before the restoration. 0:32:57.240 --> 0:33:01.480 Yeah, and yeah, for years. I mean I loved it. 0:33:02.080 --> 0:33:06.520 And you know, I took a bunch of the people 0:33:06.520 --> 0:33:08.560 that worked for me there over the years. I took 0:33:08.920 --> 0:33:10.560 kill A Hants the first time he was there was 0:33:10.600 --> 0:33:15.400 with me, and you know, and I still thought really 0:33:15.520 --> 0:33:18.640 highly of the golf course. And then and like like 0:33:19.240 --> 0:33:23.480 I think before though, at whenever they had the USA 0:33:23.520 --> 0:33:27.880 Amateur there back in two thousand and eight or nine 0:33:28.040 --> 0:33:30.560 or seven, somewhere in there, I don't remember exactly where 0:33:30.760 --> 0:33:33.360 I took one of my interns there. We went there 0:33:33.360 --> 0:33:36.160 and Tobacco Road, and you know, at that point they'd 0:33:36.160 --> 0:33:39.000 had the US Open once or twice. They were getting 0:33:39.000 --> 0:33:42.040 ready for the USA Amateur and they narrowed up the 0:33:42.200 --> 0:33:44.840 you know, they narrowed everything up for the tournaments, and 0:33:44.880 --> 0:33:47.800 they'd never moded back out to its width, and like 0:33:48.200 --> 0:33:51.360 it was just bermuda grass everywhere and most of the 0:33:51.400 --> 0:33:55.920 most of the the wiregrass and stuff was gone and 0:33:56.000 --> 0:33:59.640 out of play areas, and I just was like, I 0:33:59.680 --> 0:34:04.719 felt really bad about it, and I I I was 0:34:04.760 --> 0:34:07.040 on Golf Club Atlas the next week and I wrote 0:34:07.800 --> 0:34:09.919 it was really sad. I mean, it was like going 0:34:09.960 --> 0:34:12.200 to visit your favorite uncle and he's got to mention 0:34:12.360 --> 0:34:18.920 he doesn't remember who you are. And Tom Cashley was 0:34:18.920 --> 0:34:21.239 the president of Pinehurst. He was, he was, he worked 0:34:21.280 --> 0:34:23.080 for them, but he wasn't the president at that point. 0:34:23.960 --> 0:34:26.720 He read that that, he said I read that that morning, 0:34:26.760 --> 0:34:29.680 and I was like, He's like, I spit out my coffee, like, 0:34:30.000 --> 0:34:32.920 oh my god, you know, and it was you know, 0:34:33.040 --> 0:34:35.600 and that was that was right about the same time 0:34:35.680 --> 0:34:40.040 Bill and Ben were they were working on Dormy Club 0:34:40.760 --> 0:34:45.800 and they'd come over and Bill had very gently tried 0:34:45.840 --> 0:34:49.480 to say the same thing I said much more abruptly. 0:34:51.520 --> 0:34:53.680 But you know, the two of us saying it at 0:34:53.680 --> 0:34:57.920 the same time kind of was part of the impetus 0:34:57.960 --> 0:35:00.920 for them to start working on it, because up to then, frankly, 0:35:00.920 --> 0:35:04.000 they were just thinking, you know, we're hosting the US 0:35:04.080 --> 0:35:06.600 Open and the US Aner, and everybody says it's that. 0:35:06.680 --> 0:35:08.760 You know, all the pro say it's their favorite golf course, 0:35:08.800 --> 0:35:11.719 So you know, we're doing everything just right. 0:35:12.719 --> 0:35:15.680 That's the thing, right, if it's a pro's favorite golf course. 0:35:15.719 --> 0:35:18.200 I don't know if that's necessarily a good thing, right. 0:35:19.280 --> 0:35:22.480 I saw that there's somebody posted something about tearing out 0:35:22.520 --> 0:35:27.399 the best golf courses on tour, and we say, there's 0:35:27.440 --> 0:35:31.240 some comments from tour pros about how low certain courses 0:35:31.280 --> 0:35:34.520 with a preponderance of bunkers and thick rough all over 0:35:34.560 --> 0:35:38.160 the place, we're on the listing. So it's an interesting 0:35:38.280 --> 0:35:41.360 thing with like, you know, it a lot of I 0:35:41.360 --> 0:35:44.759 think a lot of golf courses that host tournaments fall 0:35:44.800 --> 0:35:47.760 into the bucket of like, well, if the tour pros 0:35:47.920 --> 0:35:51.120 like it, that's good, and that might not necessarily be 0:35:51.600 --> 0:35:54.240 the right thing, and especially that it seemed to happen 0:35:54.280 --> 0:35:57.680 a lot from really nineteen sixty through nineteen ninety. 0:35:58.920 --> 0:36:01.600 Yes, that's true, but I you know, I mean I 0:36:01.640 --> 0:36:03.920 don't really think that's ever been the case for Pineher's 0:36:04.000 --> 0:36:06.120 Number two, where the guy where the guys loved it 0:36:06.160 --> 0:36:10.160 because it was growing in and getting more predictable, you know. 0:36:10.440 --> 0:36:12.520 I mean you asked all the you know, the old 0:36:12.520 --> 0:36:14.879 timers that played in the north and South, they all 0:36:14.920 --> 0:36:17.319 loved the place. They just thought it was a great 0:36:17.400 --> 0:36:20.960 golf course. And you know, the younger guys, they maybe 0:36:21.000 --> 0:36:23.160 never saw it like that. You know. I mean I 0:36:23.600 --> 0:36:26.719 remember it more vividly because I saw it when I 0:36:26.719 --> 0:36:29.200 was like twelve years old, fifty years ago. It was 0:36:29.239 --> 0:36:31.120 one of the first things I saw and it really 0:36:31.120 --> 0:36:34.239 made an impression, and it was like, boy, they're really 0:36:34.280 --> 0:36:37.040 getting away from that, and so it was it was 0:36:37.080 --> 0:36:39.480 great to see him, you know that they they not 0:36:39.520 --> 0:36:41.880 only went back to that, they went back past that. 0:36:42.040 --> 0:36:44.960 You know, they went back further than that to really 0:36:45.040 --> 0:36:45.640 tune it up. 0:36:46.360 --> 0:36:48.360 What are some of your other favorite I know you 0:36:48.400 --> 0:36:50.520 haven't seen everything in the area. What are some of 0:36:50.560 --> 0:36:53.960 your other favorite courses in the Pineers area and at 0:36:54.000 --> 0:36:54.920 the resort. 0:36:57.800 --> 0:37:00.319 Yeah, I really haven't, you know. I mean, you know, 0:37:00.680 --> 0:37:05.319 I've never worked around Pinehers I. You know, typically I 0:37:05.400 --> 0:37:07.080 will only get there for a couple of days at 0:37:07.080 --> 0:37:10.080 a time, and I'll go walk number two again and 0:37:10.120 --> 0:37:12.279 then I'll go see one other thing. But I you know, 0:37:12.360 --> 0:37:16.239 I haven't really played that many other courses around Piners obviously. 0:37:16.600 --> 0:37:19.960 You know, I'm a fan of Tobacco Road. I don't 0:37:20.000 --> 0:37:22.000 think it's one of the best golf courses in the world. 0:37:22.080 --> 0:37:25.160 I think it's a really cool piece of work, and 0:37:25.239 --> 0:37:28.520 I love going to see that, and you know, and 0:37:28.600 --> 0:37:31.839 we'll I'll take Angela back there to'll like look at 0:37:31.880 --> 0:37:35.680 certain things there both, you know, plants they're using around 0:37:35.680 --> 0:37:38.440 the bunkers and how he made the bunkers look so dramatic. 0:37:39.320 --> 0:37:41.920 But you know, but I don't I wouldn't want to 0:37:41.920 --> 0:37:44.239 build that eighteen holes for the resort, and I doubt 0:37:44.239 --> 0:37:46.319 the resort would want me to build that eighteen holes 0:37:46.320 --> 0:37:51.400 for the resort. I only I never saw Midpines until 0:37:51.680 --> 0:37:58.320 after the renovations, you know, and from from my limited experience, 0:37:58.400 --> 0:38:02.360 that's my next favorite golf course in town. You know. 0:38:03.840 --> 0:38:06.759 You know, Pine Needles is a little seemed a little 0:38:06.800 --> 0:38:09.239 more conventional to me. I know they've done work there 0:38:09.440 --> 0:38:12.800 since I saw it, so I don't I can't really 0:38:13.200 --> 0:38:16.840 comment on that. But and you know Rand Morris that 0:38:16.960 --> 0:38:20.319 took me to Southern Pines several years ago. He loved 0:38:20.360 --> 0:38:21.920 it when it was just the Elks Club and a 0:38:21.960 --> 0:38:24.759 really simple golf course. So I haven't seen that. And 0:38:24.760 --> 0:38:30.680 what they've done with that, I've heard it's pretty pretty severe, like, 0:38:31.600 --> 0:38:33.239 you know, the kind of thing I might have built 0:38:33.239 --> 0:38:38.759 when I was thirty. So you know, whether that's whether 0:38:38.760 --> 0:38:40.920 I'm gonna like that or not like that? I have 0:38:41.000 --> 0:38:41.520 no idea. 0:38:42.480 --> 0:38:45.319 What do you say you severe like you'd build when 0:38:45.320 --> 0:38:49.000 you're thirty? Can you expand on that a little bit? 0:38:49.080 --> 0:38:53.480 How how you know your I guess severity and and 0:38:53.680 --> 0:39:00.719 you have have evolved with with experience and age. 0:39:00.960 --> 0:39:05.880 I still like building difficult greens here and there, and 0:39:08.960 --> 0:39:11.600 you know, some projects more than here and there. But 0:39:13.000 --> 0:39:17.360 I don't. I guess I'm just I'm just I'm just 0:39:17.520 --> 0:39:21.040 more conscious, you know, when I was more involved with 0:39:21.160 --> 0:39:28.759 actually shaping them and creating them. You know, you get 0:39:28.800 --> 0:39:31.520 more attached to everyone. It's like, oh, yeah, that's that's 0:39:31.520 --> 0:39:35.080 really cool, and that one's even cooler, and you know, 0:39:35.680 --> 0:39:38.920 now I'm a little you know, there's other people contributing 0:39:38.960 --> 0:39:40.800 to that, and I'm a little more of the editor, 0:39:41.200 --> 0:39:43.359 so I can step back and say, yeah, these are 0:39:43.400 --> 0:39:45.160 all cool, but you put them all together and it's 0:39:45.160 --> 0:39:47.600 too much, you know. I just I don't want to 0:39:47.600 --> 0:39:51.680 play eighteen greens like that. So so that's that's the 0:39:51.760 --> 0:39:56.040 hard part is, you know, especially if you're doing a 0:39:56.080 --> 0:39:58.040 lot of the work yourself, is to like take a 0:39:58.040 --> 0:40:01.680 couple of steps back and go where am I on this? 0:40:02.040 --> 0:40:04.880 You know, And and it's really hard in the middle 0:40:04.880 --> 0:40:07.520 of a construction project, you know, when you go and 0:40:07.560 --> 0:40:11.520 see somebody else's golf course that's already that they just built, 0:40:12.040 --> 0:40:14.440 and you know, and you go, you know, if I 0:40:14.560 --> 0:40:19.680 go see Southern Pines, I'm going to go see it 0:40:19.760 --> 0:40:24.080 after working on my own thing, going to see Pinehurs 0:40:24.200 --> 0:40:27.560 number two, going to see some other really great golf courses, 0:40:27.640 --> 0:40:29.799 and then I'm going to go there and I'm like, oh, 0:40:29.920 --> 0:40:33.640 that's that seems really you know, that impression is going 0:40:33.680 --> 0:40:35.759 to be way different from if you were building it. 0:40:36.320 --> 0:40:39.120 You'd be spending almost every day out there, and after 0:40:39.160 --> 0:40:41.680 about three or four months, you start to lose touch 0:40:42.040 --> 0:40:46.000 as to how severe is this. You know, you need 0:40:46.080 --> 0:40:49.680 somebody else to be tapping you on the shoulder going 0:40:49.680 --> 0:40:52.840 are you sure you want to be doing that? And 0:40:53.880 --> 0:40:56.440 you know a lot of people don't have that or 0:40:56.480 --> 0:40:58.359 they don't want to listen to it. When somebody does 0:40:58.400 --> 0:41:01.239 tell it, you know, they and a lot of you know, 0:41:01.280 --> 0:41:04.760 a lot of guys, especially if they're if they're younger guys, 0:41:04.960 --> 0:41:07.319 they're good players. Like all their friends who come around 0:41:07.360 --> 0:41:09.160 are like, Oh, that's cool. That's the coolest thing I've 0:41:09.160 --> 0:41:11.919 ever seen. You know, you should do the next one. 0:41:11.960 --> 0:41:15.040 You should do like this, And all the encouragement is 0:41:15.080 --> 0:41:20.080 for it to get harder and harder, whereas, like, you know, 0:41:20.280 --> 0:41:23.319 working for Mike Kaiser, it was the opposite. It's like, 0:41:23.360 --> 0:41:26.880 do you really have to do that? That's important? Sometimes 0:41:26.880 --> 0:41:29.560 the client could provide that for you. Sometimes the people 0:41:29.560 --> 0:41:32.120 that work for you can provide that for you. The 0:41:32.200 --> 0:41:36.280 Pete Daya's wife provided that for But if nobody's providing 0:41:36.320 --> 0:41:42.400 that for you, you will do stuff. You know, generally, 0:41:42.440 --> 0:41:44.319 I think most people will tend to are doing it 0:41:44.320 --> 0:41:47.319 too severe instead of too dull. But I mean it 0:41:47.320 --> 0:41:48.000 could go either way. 0:41:48.320 --> 0:41:50.480 Do you think this is something I think about? 0:41:50.480 --> 0:41:56.279 A ton is do you think that the actual Like everybody, 0:41:56.400 --> 0:41:59.760 I think the natural instinct is to say, oh wow, 0:42:00.080 --> 0:42:03.520 look at this crazy green. I can't believe the guy 0:42:03.880 --> 0:42:08.799 that this architect had had the confidence to pull off 0:42:08.880 --> 0:42:13.359 such a wild green. But is the actual confident thing 0:42:13.440 --> 0:42:17.000 to do? The thing that requires more confidence is to 0:42:17.000 --> 0:42:20.720 build an extremely understated, subtle green. 0:42:22.400 --> 0:42:25.600 You know, I suppose that. I mean, it really depends 0:42:25.640 --> 0:42:29.279 on your own tendencies. It's like, you know, if you 0:42:29.760 --> 0:42:33.680 for me, yes, I think you know, because my tendency 0:42:33.840 --> 0:42:36.520 is too I've seen all these cool greens that are 0:42:36.560 --> 0:42:39.680 probably some of the wildest greens on the planet. You know, 0:42:39.800 --> 0:42:42.640 you'd love to build something like that, and you know, 0:42:42.880 --> 0:42:48.319 to get to to to keep that in check is 0:42:48.360 --> 0:42:50.239 a hard thing to do, you know. I mean, I've 0:42:50.239 --> 0:42:53.960 already talked with Angela about this. For for Pioneer's number ten. 0:42:54.080 --> 0:42:55.920 She's gonna it's the first time she's had to run 0:42:55.960 --> 0:42:59.239 a job for me. Uh. You know, she's been ready 0:42:59.280 --> 0:43:01.279 to do it for a while. They're just been like 0:43:02.440 --> 0:43:05.160 three very talented people ahead of her on the totem pole. 0:43:05.800 --> 0:43:10.040 And you know, but right now, you know, they're all 0:43:10.040 --> 0:43:13.719 committed to something this year. You know that they'll help 0:43:13.760 --> 0:43:16.960 her out some shape and stuff. But you know, they 0:43:17.040 --> 0:43:19.399 couldn't run that job because they all have to get 0:43:19.440 --> 0:43:23.799 back to their other things by April. So, you know, 0:43:23.920 --> 0:43:26.160 so I've said to her, you know, I know she's thinking, 0:43:26.200 --> 0:43:28.319 this is her chance to do something really cool and 0:43:28.360 --> 0:43:30.560 do really cool stuff. And you know, I've said to her, 0:43:31.400 --> 0:43:36.040 you know, no, I mean this is you know, It's like, yes, 0:43:36.120 --> 0:43:38.560 it is. But at the same time, this is the 0:43:38.600 --> 0:43:41.120 time you're gonna have to learn that you have to 0:43:41.120 --> 0:43:43.920 take a step back and let some other people do 0:43:44.040 --> 0:43:48.880 some of the cool stuff, because that's that's the progression. 0:43:49.600 --> 0:43:49.839 You know. 0:43:49.920 --> 0:43:52.880 You go from you go from just wanting to build 0:43:53.000 --> 0:43:55.839 one cool green to you know, being able to do 0:43:55.880 --> 0:43:59.479 that at will, to running a job and realizing that's 0:43:59.560 --> 0:44:00.879 not what you need to be doing. 0:44:02.480 --> 0:44:06.880 Everybody always talks about how great it is to build 0:44:07.080 --> 0:44:10.799 in the sand hills and how great North Carolina sand 0:44:10.880 --> 0:44:14.680 hills are. What's actually like, what's the challenging? What makes 0:44:14.680 --> 0:44:17.520 it hard? Is there is there something hard that's about 0:44:17.520 --> 0:44:18.200 building there? 0:44:19.680 --> 0:44:24.560 Uh? Yeah, it's not really as sandy as everybody says, 0:44:25.040 --> 0:44:27.279 or it's not. Depends from one side to the other, 0:44:27.320 --> 0:44:31.520 it's different. But the sand is not as deep everywhere, 0:44:31.680 --> 0:44:34.239 as you know, it's not sand twenty feet down like 0:44:34.320 --> 0:44:38.600 Sand Valley. So you know, if you're doing more work, 0:44:38.680 --> 0:44:42.000 you know, the more work you're doing, the more complicated 0:44:42.040 --> 0:44:42.799 it gets. 0:44:43.320 --> 0:44:43.520 You know. 0:44:43.560 --> 0:44:46.360 I've seen, I mean, I've seen several things. I've looked 0:44:46.360 --> 0:44:49.399 at there in recent years. You know, I was there 0:44:49.440 --> 0:44:51.320 a couple of years ago, and it was really rainy 0:44:52.000 --> 0:44:55.840 and like there were a lot of puddles and wet areas, 0:44:55.880 --> 0:44:59.080 and not on Pioneer's Number two, but on some of 0:44:59.120 --> 0:45:02.440 the other courses. Resort and Tobacco Road got torn up 0:45:02.480 --> 0:45:04.560 by the rain that I'm talking about because of the 0:45:04.640 --> 0:45:07.960 things we were discussing earlier. It's hard to do that. Look, 0:45:09.120 --> 0:45:11.000 you know, it doesn't stand up that well to a 0:45:11.000 --> 0:45:13.000 big storm, and it's just like how often do you 0:45:13.080 --> 0:45:16.080 have that here? You know? Pineer's Number two is the opposite, 0:45:16.120 --> 0:45:18.160 you know, I mean one of the people that's helped us, 0:45:18.719 --> 0:45:21.320 that's helping us build going to help us build the 0:45:21.400 --> 0:45:24.200 new course, but it's helped us, like, you know, get 0:45:24.200 --> 0:45:27.080 all the permits together to do you know. So they 0:45:27.120 --> 0:45:31.080 call me about this project eight months ago and and 0:45:31.120 --> 0:45:34.799 I was like, Wow, I can't turn this down. But 0:45:34.840 --> 0:45:36.799 we're really busy. You know, I don't know if I 0:45:36.800 --> 0:45:40.239 can do it, and I you know, I said pretty quickly, well, 0:45:40.840 --> 0:45:43.319 you know, I've got some other clients that they've been 0:45:43.360 --> 0:45:46.120 talking about building stuff at the start of twenty twenty three, 0:45:46.160 --> 0:45:48.640 but now they're realizing they're not going to get there 0:45:49.120 --> 0:45:51.520 and it's going to be twenty twenty four. So my 0:45:51.600 --> 0:45:54.240 problem is I could build a golf course in twenty 0:45:54.280 --> 0:45:57.400 twenty three, but I've already got a bunch of commitments 0:45:57.440 --> 0:45:59.799 that pushed back into twenty twenty four. I don't think 0:45:59.800 --> 0:46:03.360 I can do it then. So is it even possible 0:46:03.360 --> 0:46:07.400 that you could get it together that quickly? And you know, 0:46:07.440 --> 0:46:09.640 when I said it, I'm like, I don't know that 0:46:09.680 --> 0:46:13.040 they can because like in all the projects I've ever done, 0:46:13.360 --> 0:46:16.680 there was only one that it was less than twelve 0:46:16.719 --> 0:46:19.040 months from when they called me until we started building it, 0:46:19.080 --> 0:46:21.520 and that was Stonewall. And they, you know, they got 0:46:21.560 --> 0:46:25.239 permits with Tom Fazio's plan, not with Monk, you know, 0:46:25.360 --> 0:46:28.440 but everybody else. You know, when Julian Robertson or some 0:46:28.560 --> 0:46:31.040 billionaire calls you, they think, nah, we can make it 0:46:31.080 --> 0:46:35.600 go super fast. Now, It's never that easy. There's always 0:46:35.840 --> 0:46:37.200 you know, it takes a while to figure out what 0:46:37.239 --> 0:46:40.240 you're gonna do, and then there are there are always 0:46:40.239 --> 0:46:43.479 hoops to jump through in the permitting process, and it's 0:46:43.560 --> 0:46:45.879 just going to take some time, no matter who you are, 0:46:46.200 --> 0:46:49.160 how much money you throw at it, anything else, you know, 0:46:49.239 --> 0:46:51.719 But it helps that Pineers is obviously they're a big 0:46:51.760 --> 0:46:56.359 deal in their local community. That helped. But more than that, 0:46:56.400 --> 0:46:58.920 they've got two guys on the payroll, Bob Farren and 0:46:59.520 --> 0:47:02.000 Kevin R. Robinson, who have built a bunch of golf 0:47:02.000 --> 0:47:04.960 courses and rebuild a bunch of golf courses, and they 0:47:05.000 --> 0:47:08.160 know how that stuff gets done. And then they you know, 0:47:08.360 --> 0:47:11.319 in there. You know, Kevin was the superintendent and number 0:47:11.360 --> 0:47:15.239 two for five or ten years. He's been working there 0:47:15.400 --> 0:47:19.279 since he got out of school basically, and you know, 0:47:19.440 --> 0:47:21.279 and you know, and he's the one who explained to 0:47:21.320 --> 0:47:23.720 me how different the soils are. And you know, guess 0:47:23.760 --> 0:47:25.480 which course in Pineers is on the best? 0:47:25.760 --> 0:47:26.239 Number two. 0:47:27.880 --> 0:47:31.320 Yeah, it's the highest ground there and the deepest sand. 0:47:32.200 --> 0:47:34.480 So you know, they never get a puddle there, they 0:47:34.480 --> 0:47:37.960 never have any erosion problems there. But as you move 0:47:38.000 --> 0:47:40.759 away from that and you're moving down the hill a 0:47:40.800 --> 0:47:42.400 little bit, it gets harder and harder. 0:47:43.000 --> 0:47:46.000 Yeah, I mean it sounds so simple when you really 0:47:46.160 --> 0:47:48.080 take a step back and think about it, but like 0:47:48.200 --> 0:47:51.080 high ground is so important, and you see it at 0:47:51.080 --> 0:47:54.280 places like one that jumps to mine in Chicago. Medina 0:47:54.719 --> 0:47:58.320 obviously has three courses and the course nobody ever plays 0:47:58.360 --> 0:48:01.160 really is number two, but that one sits on the 0:48:01.239 --> 0:48:04.000 highest ground on the at the place and it's got 0:48:04.040 --> 0:48:07.080 the firmst conditions day and day out, and it's like, well, 0:48:07.360 --> 0:48:09.160 you know, why is this course always in the best 0:48:09.200 --> 0:48:10.040 shape of all of them. 0:48:10.040 --> 0:48:11.960 It's like, well, the rain goes right. 0:48:11.840 --> 0:48:16.640 Off and onto all the other courses, right, So that's uh, 0:48:16.640 --> 0:48:20.319 that's exciting. So that what's the exact timeline on the project. Yeah, 0:48:20.560 --> 0:48:23.680 you're going to start working twenty twenty three and uh 0:48:23.760 --> 0:48:26.680 and when when are they expecting to not exact, but 0:48:26.719 --> 0:48:29.279 when are the when is the hope for golf. 0:48:30.080 --> 0:48:33.840 Wee We started clearing already. There will be an army 0:48:33.880 --> 0:48:36.600 there before the end of January. And you know part 0:48:36.960 --> 0:48:39.319 you know, our goal is to finish it would be 0:48:39.440 --> 0:48:41.320 done with the golf course and have it all planned 0:48:41.440 --> 0:48:45.080 in September and open next year. That goes back to 0:48:45.880 --> 0:48:48.040 you know, I'm going to be too busy in twenty 0:48:48.080 --> 0:48:52.279 twenty four. And and the resort, you know, that was 0:48:52.360 --> 0:48:55.240 music to their ears. Now that they've got permits, they'll 0:48:55.280 --> 0:48:57.440 have a it may not be open yet, but they'll 0:48:57.440 --> 0:48:59.840 have a done golf course. When the US Open is 0:48:59.840 --> 0:49:03.040 in town in twenty twenty four. You know that you'll 0:49:03.080 --> 0:49:04.959 be you'll be playing it in the summer of twenty 0:49:05.000 --> 0:49:05.440 twenty four. 0:49:05.480 --> 0:49:08.480 If you go to the they get a cash in 0:49:08.560 --> 0:49:10.680 on all those media members coming to town. 0:49:11.840 --> 0:49:17.279 Absolutely they do. And you know, and especially you know, 0:49:17.320 --> 0:49:21.200 my other projects right now are all you know, Sedge Valley. 0:49:21.239 --> 0:49:23.280 We're going to get back to the first of April. 0:49:24.000 --> 0:49:25.879 You know, we could actually probably be working there today 0:49:25.880 --> 0:49:28.200 because it hasn't snowed much yet, but you can't plan 0:49:28.320 --> 0:49:31.520 on working in January, February, and March. So we start 0:49:31.600 --> 0:49:33.920 up again there the first of April. We start high 0:49:33.960 --> 0:49:38.120 point the first to April. I'm not sure exactly when 0:49:38.120 --> 0:49:40.520 we're going to get going in Mexico, but it's not 0:49:40.520 --> 0:49:42.959 not right now, It's not for a couple of months yet. 0:49:43.440 --> 0:49:46.800 So so for you know, until the first to April, 0:49:48.360 --> 0:49:54.920 I have all of my talented people available to go 0:49:55.600 --> 0:49:59.359 do some work at Pinehurst and you know, knock out 0:49:59.360 --> 0:50:01.640 as much of it as we can before everybody goes 0:50:01.680 --> 0:50:03.960 off and they're doing their own thing, and you know, 0:50:04.320 --> 0:50:07.120 we're hoping to take real advantage of that. I'm going 0:50:07.200 --> 0:50:09.239 to go for a week in February and a week 0:50:09.280 --> 0:50:11.839 in March, and I think we'll have a whole bunch 0:50:11.920 --> 0:50:17.040 of green shaped and holes half done by That's exciting. 0:50:17.200 --> 0:50:18.680 It's excited up so well. 0:50:19.080 --> 0:50:22.239 It'll be fun to follow this and talk more and 0:50:22.239 --> 0:50:25.920 more as the course comes together. But Tom, thanks for 0:50:25.960 --> 0:50:28.200 coming on and chatting about Pinehurst. 0:50:29.280 --> 0:50:31.239 It's a fun place. Thanks for having me. 0:50:42.320 --> 0:50:46.239 Thank you for listening to another edition of the Friday Podcast. 0:50:46.840 --> 0:50:52.560 Today's episode was edited by the great Meg Atkins Meg Editing. 0:50:53.080 --> 0:50:56.120 We are taking the editing keys away from Meg, putting 0:50:56.160 --> 0:50:59.239 it on some other stuff and Matt, who's going to 0:50:59.280 --> 0:51:01.719 be editing most of the pods this year, is on 0:51:01.880 --> 0:51:05.040 vacation this week, so begs back in the saddle back edited. 0:51:06.360 --> 0:51:09.960 As a quick reminder, today's episode was brought to you 0:51:10.000 --> 0:51:10.760 by Club TFE. 0:51:11.080 --> 0:51:12.040 Go check that out. 0:51:12.719 --> 0:51:16.360 It's the Frida egg dot com slash membership. It's one 0:51:16.440 --> 0:51:18.520 hundred and twenty dollars a year, and we're going to 0:51:18.560 --> 0:51:22.560 be delivering a ton of content to members. As a reminder, 0:51:22.840 --> 0:51:27.560 nothing changes with this podcast or our newsletter. 0:51:27.239 --> 0:51:28.920 Or stuff going up on our website. 0:51:29.080 --> 0:51:31.279 This is just for people who want more and I 0:51:31.320 --> 0:51:34.160 think it's going to be a pretty cool thing. So 0:51:34.200 --> 0:51:36.759 thank you for listening to another edition of The Yoke 0:51:36.840 --> 0:51:37.440 with Dope. 0:51:37.480 --> 0:51:39.680 We will be back next week with a new. 0:51:39.560 --> 0:51:43.680 Episode and Pumper a new year of Frida egg pods. 0:51:43.719 --> 0:51:48.000 I'm energized, I'm ready to put together a lot of 0:51:48.040 --> 0:51:51.160 interesting interviews and episodes over the course of the year. 0:51:51.320 --> 0:51:55.239 So thanks for listening as always, and look forward to 0:51:55.280 --> 0:52:19.440 a big twenty twenty three