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Speaker 1: There Are No Girls on the Internet. Will be back

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Speaker 1: soon with a new season, but until then and an

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Speaker 1: honor of homecoming, enjoy this special mini celebration of women

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Speaker 1: using technology to make change on the campuses of historically

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Speaker 1: black colleges and universities. We'll be back for our regular

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Speaker 1: season soon. There Are No Girls on the Internet. As

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Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radio and Unbossed Creative, I'm

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Speaker 1: Bridget Todd and this is There Are No Girls on

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Speaker 1: the Internet. E sports competitive video games like Super Smash

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Speaker 1: Brothers and League of Legends are big business in the

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Speaker 1: sports industry, made over a billion dollars and it's projected

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Speaker 1: to reach over six million people. Now it's easy to

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Speaker 1: think of your stereotypical gamer dude dominating the sports industry,

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Speaker 1: but the sports actually has a diverse and mainstream audience,

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Speaker 1: and they're not just for hardcore gamers either. In the

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Speaker 1: run up to the recent election, Alexandria Occasio Cortez and

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Speaker 1: Ilhan Omar played the game among Us on Twitch as

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Speaker 1: a way to connect with voters and drive turnout. And

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Speaker 1: although e sports attracts a diverse audience, women and people

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Speaker 1: of color are consistently underrepresented in this increasingly lucrative field.

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Speaker 1: Dr Bernadette Lawson Williams spearheaded the very first academic program

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Speaker 1: dedicated to E sports management at a historically black college

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Speaker 1: to change that. I am a full professor of Sport

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Speaker 1: Management at Johnson C. Smith University as well as the

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Speaker 1: advisor of our E Sports and Gaming tri sextor the

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Speaker 1: first at an HBCU, and our trisector consists of our

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Speaker 1: E Sports and Gaming Management Minor Program, our E Sports Club,

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Speaker 1: our Game Development Club, and our E Sports Lab, and

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Speaker 1: we're the first ACCU to both and E sports and

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Speaker 1: gaming prospects. So that's how we're very exciting to be

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Speaker 1: a part of that kind of legacy. So for folks

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Speaker 1: who don't know what exactly is the sports, each sports

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Speaker 1: is that fe electronic sports, So the E is for

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Speaker 1: electronics and so when we think of electronic sports, oftentimes

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Speaker 1: we really don't equaint E sports with our traditional sports

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Speaker 1: such as basketball, tennis, golf, because you think that it's

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Speaker 1: just video gaming. But when we look at the definition

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Speaker 1: of sports, a sport actually entails some element of physicality,

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Speaker 1: some element of competition, and some element of quotified rules.

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Speaker 1: And by that very definition, E sports are just as

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Speaker 1: much sports as traditional sports and traditional sports, and so

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Speaker 1: always like to provide the history and insight and definition

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Speaker 1: just to make sure that our listeners are educated in

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Speaker 1: that way. Do you spend time playing video games? Well

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Speaker 1: through anything? Like Dr Lawson Williams, that pastime could actually

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Speaker 1: be leading you to a career in gaming. She got

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Speaker 1: her start just from being someone who loved playing video

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Speaker 1: games with her brother, and as a black mom, she's

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Speaker 1: changing the face of what we think of when we

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Speaker 1: think of a gamer. Okay, so how did you find

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Speaker 1: yourself doing this work? You know, I can imagine that

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Speaker 1: people must tell you that you don't look like the

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Speaker 1: typical person advocating for gaming and esports. How did you

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Speaker 1: get involved in this? Well? Actually, funny enough, I haven't

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Speaker 1: had anyone say that yes yet If they're saying it,

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Speaker 1: then I don't know which is a good. But I

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Speaker 1: was actually a gamer, believe it or not. Back in

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Speaker 1: the eighties and nineties, I was a gamer girl. I

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Speaker 1: was miss pac Man, pac Man, Donkey Come Asteroid. I

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Speaker 1: used to go to the arcade with my brother and

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Speaker 1: that was our sibling bonding activity playing video games. I've

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Speaker 1: picked it back up when my generation the twin sons,

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Speaker 1: who are eleven years old now, began to gain at

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Speaker 1: about six years old. And so when I got them

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Speaker 1: their first Xbox and literally set it up and saw

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Speaker 1: the expression on their faces when they pay out of

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Speaker 1: their room into the living room only to see Xbox

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Speaker 1: on the TV screen, I was sold. I just fell

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Speaker 1: in love with the fact that they were so excited

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Speaker 1: and passionate about gaming. And so from there, you know, progressively,

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Speaker 1: year after year, I began to get a little bit

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Speaker 1: more connected to the research of e sports and gaming,

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Speaker 1: and when I started to think about the connectivity between

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Speaker 1: the sports and sports management, then it really turned into

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Speaker 1: an opportunity to educate and to provide opportunities for our

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Speaker 1: students at Johnston C. Smith University and and of course

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Speaker 1: for HBCUs um j C s U, as the first

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Speaker 1: HBCU within the sports and gaming trifectas now has served

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Speaker 1: as a pioneer for so many other HBCUs to get

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Speaker 1: into this space, and so we're so ecstatic about that

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Speaker 1: opportunity just to be a part of this legacy that

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Speaker 1: the announces being much more prevalent at our HBCUs. So

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Speaker 1: you mentioned that a big part of the program managing

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Speaker 1: live e sports event. Have you ever been to any

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Speaker 1: I have been, funny enough the first sports tournament that

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Speaker 1: I went to West here and Charlotte, North Carolina. Oh

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Speaker 1: my goodness, the synergy in that room. You had individuals.

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Speaker 1: My sons are eleven, so individuals all the way from

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Speaker 1: ten eleven all the way up to their middle middle thirties.

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Speaker 1: And their gaming. My sons literally was the first time

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Speaker 1: that they actually play a game called Smash Brothers and

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Speaker 1: feel familiar with Mario, the character Mario and and so

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Speaker 1: they actually ended up playing in Gypt, and I believe

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Speaker 1: for it about swing four and five years old. And

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Speaker 1: it was amazing because they are so virtattle and I'm

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Speaker 1: talking about my twins, so virtattole in their gaming abilities

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Speaker 1: that they were able to get into the game for

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Speaker 1: the first time pick up and and really moved and

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Speaker 1: really manipulating so quickly. And so they learned the game

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Speaker 1: on the spot to the point where one of the

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Speaker 1: gentleman's observing. Of course, I wasn't familiar with the game.

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Speaker 1: I was learning it as I was watching and observing,

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Speaker 1: but he actually whispered to me, your son is pretty good.

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Speaker 1: If this is if aught. Wow, I have gamers on

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Speaker 1: my head. So I have to take this a lot

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Speaker 1: more seriously because you know a lot of times as

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Speaker 1: parents for us, you know, many of us field that game.

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Speaker 1: It is a waste of time where my mindset has

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Speaker 1: truly been transformed. I am sold it. On the business

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Speaker 1: side of the sports, Dr Lawston Williams was motivated by

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Speaker 1: making sure that everyone had access to the kinds of

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Speaker 1: business opportunities that E sports presents. The university partnered with

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Speaker 1: Riot Games, the creative company behind the wildly popular game

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Speaker 1: League of Legends and it's associated E sports tournaments. Now,

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Speaker 1: video game consoles like xboxes and PlayStations can be pretty pricey,

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Speaker 1: which is one reason the field isn't more diverse, But

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Speaker 1: thanks to this partnership, Johnson C. Smith University is leveling

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Speaker 1: the playing field. Consoles may run between three hundred and

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Speaker 1: five hundred dollars. Well pecs, actual computers that are specifically

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Speaker 1: for gaming, can run anywhere from a thousand up to

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Speaker 1: twenty five hundred dollars, and so it was really a

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Speaker 1: tremendous opportunity for us to secure that funding because now

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Speaker 1: we actually have gaming PCs for our students so that

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Speaker 1: when they returned back to campus in the spring, they'll

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Speaker 1: actually be ready to go and everyone will be on

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Speaker 1: an even playing field as opposed to one person playing

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Speaker 1: in the PC, another person playing from their smart prowe

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Speaker 1: and another person playing from the next file. And so

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Speaker 1: that's what it's exciting. But the program at Johnson C.

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Speaker 1: Smith University is specifically geared at getting minorities involved as

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Speaker 1: well as females involved. So we actually have a campaign

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Speaker 1: going on now really pushing to get more females in

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Speaker 1: the space, particularly general students at GMC yes year. How

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Speaker 1: do we make sure that more women and folks of

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Speaker 1: color aren't just playing games, but they're making money from

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Speaker 1: gaming and east ports. Well, unsurprisingly, one answer is just

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Speaker 1: supporting one another and lifting as we climb. Dr Lawson

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Speaker 1: Williams says that mentorship is that one way that underrepresenting

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Speaker 1: people can break into the e sports and gaming industry.

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Speaker 1: So what's your advice to a woman or a person

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Speaker 1: of color who may be interested in pursuing the sports

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Speaker 1: as an academic study or a field or even as

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Speaker 1: a gamer themselves. What's your advice to them connect to

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Speaker 1: the right organization. And so the beauty of the sports

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Speaker 1: is it's not confined. You know there there is no

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Speaker 1: organization that really confines or restricts your ability to participate

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Speaker 1: in as many leagues as you would like to do.

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Speaker 1: And so you know whoever that individual is, if you

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Speaker 1: can reach out to someone who's in gaming, if you're on,

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Speaker 1: for instance, a networking social media LinkedIn has been the

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Speaker 1: best place that I've seen in terms of individuals linked up.

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Speaker 1: And I would have to send the majority if people

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Speaker 1: are excited about other gamers getting into the space, and

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Speaker 1: so for them that means a lot will follow up

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Speaker 1: with you and provide you with God is from there.

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Speaker 1: So the manty mental relationship is imperative, and this industry

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Speaker 1: for sure morre. After this quick break, let's get right

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Speaker 1: back to it. What do you think that little Bernadette

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Speaker 1: who was this little gamer girl would think to see you? Now,

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Speaker 1: you know, now that you're Dr Lawson Williams, you know,

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Speaker 1: spearheading the very first historic HBCU E sports program. What

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Speaker 1: do you think you're young self to think about that?

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Speaker 1: So my younger self would just be pink and would

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Speaker 1: actually say I knew you were going somewhere first the

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Speaker 1: moment I decided in the eighth grade to begin capitalizing

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Speaker 1: the end in my name because I was being creative.

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Speaker 1: I knew that things are gonna happen, so God just

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Speaker 1: wielded in. It just shows that, you know, those kinds

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Speaker 1: of opportunities that were exposed to were younger. You know,

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Speaker 1: many times they remain dormant for decades, but you know,

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Speaker 1: something you know causes them. There's a catalyst somewhere that

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Speaker 1: causes those you know, passions to actually rehash or rehash.

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Speaker 1: You know, a lot of colleges are offering E sports scholarships,

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Speaker 1: and so just as we would want that again, athletes

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Speaker 1: and baseball or football to be committed to get how

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Speaker 1: they in practice, to work on your skills. I'm always

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Speaker 1: reminding my kids, and they're always reminding Mom, I'm I'm

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Speaker 1: working on my technique, you know. So it's really cool

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Speaker 1: having them. I called them my E sports consultant because

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Speaker 1: a lot of wanting to clarify information, I'm like, now,

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Speaker 1: this particular game is published by who oh no, it's

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Speaker 1: an indie publisher. Okay, okay, it's not you know, published

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Speaker 1: by Right Games or Epic, but it's published by you know,

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Speaker 1: someone who's just an individual. As I remind them, there's

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Speaker 1: so many innumerable opportunities career opportunits in the sports and

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Speaker 1: gaming industry. They can go into the software development, game development,

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Speaker 1: you know, the business side of it. They can be

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Speaker 1: shout casters. I mean innumerable opportunity. The sports is so

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Speaker 1: stem based, and that's what we really have to remember.

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Speaker 1: It's not just about playing a video game. It's about

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Speaker 1: really getting into, you know, the nature of what a

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Speaker 1: video game in tails, what an E sports uh actually entails.

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Speaker 1: And so I remind my students that every day you

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Speaker 1: guys actually have an advantage in the industry because you're

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Speaker 1: already gamers. Right now, we're the only abc U undergraduate

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Speaker 1: level that has an E sports and game and management program,

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Speaker 1: And so I can't say that enough because it's so

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Speaker 1: exciting and we want everyone to understand the world phenomena.

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Speaker 1: In that statement, it's not an uncommon story for underrepresenting

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Speaker 1: people to be a big chunk of an audience of

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Speaker 1: the industry but not have proportionate influence when it comes

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Speaker 1: to control over that very same industry. East with them

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Speaker 1: gaming is the same way women in communities of color

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Speaker 1: are the ones consuming and playing the games, yet we

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Speaker 1: aren't the ones making money from video games and esports.

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Speaker 1: Dr Lawson Williams wants to change this. We know that

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Speaker 1: of African American teams play some type of video games,

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Speaker 1: but sadly, the other statistics on the other side is

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Speaker 1: that less than three percent of African Americans are actually

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Speaker 1: employed in the e sports and gaming industry. And so

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Speaker 1: that's the sad aspect of it. But what we're excited

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Speaker 1: about we turned that around it's still relying into the cloud,

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Speaker 1: is we're going to change that statistic. We're gonna take

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Speaker 1: that of African Americans playing video games and increase that

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Speaker 1: two and meet it halfway. And we're working on that,

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Speaker 1: and I feel we're gonna make that happen very soon.

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Speaker 1: It's already happening. How does it feel to know you

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Speaker 1: made history? It's not about me. I said it to

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Speaker 1: my kids all time, never being a play where you

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Speaker 1: think what's happening to you is about you. It's bigger

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Speaker 1: than that. It's it's about more people having an opportunity.

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Speaker 1: So I'm really at this point just a vessel. I'm

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Speaker 1: just a vessel. I'm just the opportunity to aligned for

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Speaker 1: my students to get to where they need to be.

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Speaker 1: So what's your all time favorite game, Like, what's the

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Speaker 1: game that started all of this for you? Well, I

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Speaker 1: have to go back to misshat Man. I'm already trying

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Speaker 1: to figure out a way to to to get access

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Speaker 1: to that game in my house again so that I

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Speaker 1: can demonstrate to my son that this is the real

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Speaker 1: Monty didn't just make up that she was the Miss

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Speaker 1: fact Man champion of her neighborhood. She really was, and

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Speaker 1: I think they want to see that as well. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I had to tell you something that was really funny

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Speaker 1: to happen though. One of my sons really loved TikTok.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he got up to the point with one

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Speaker 1: of his TikTok videos he made he had one hundred

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Speaker 1: thousand life and he was just so stating, what are

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Speaker 1: the videos that he and I made together. It was

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Speaker 1: a video of him gaming, and I walked in the room.

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Speaker 1: It was a little later than he was supposed to

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Speaker 1: be up, and you know, he was this caught red

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Speaker 1: hit and so the last segment of the video showed

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Speaker 1: me actually gaming and it was so funny. The comments

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Speaker 1: that were posted kids were like, oh my gosh, you

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Speaker 1: have the best mom in the world. Your mom is

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Speaker 1: an oh gee, Chee's gaming, She's and I'm just up.

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Speaker 1: More parents need to spend time gaming with their kids.

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Speaker 1: If this is the kind of response I'm getting to

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Speaker 1: it a TikTok video. More parents need to take time

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Speaker 1: to sit out and learn these now. Obviously, the controllers

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Speaker 1: now are vastly different from the single hand joy stick

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Speaker 1: that we had back in the eighties, so so a

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Speaker 1: lot has to be lured. I love it, gamer girl

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Speaker 1: and cool mom. You don't have to tell you. My

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Speaker 1: late grandfather went to Johnson C. Smith University and before

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Speaker 1: he passed, going to home coming every year. It was

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Speaker 1: a very big part of my family and he would

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Speaker 1: be so proud to see what you're doing at the

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Speaker 1: university now. That's phenomenal. He would be so proud to

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Speaker 1: know that you even sought me out to interview the

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Speaker 1: story with you about our Johnson C. Smith University. It's

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Speaker 1: funny because john C. Smith University is really like my

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Speaker 1: second alma mata. I actually graduated from South Carolina State

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Speaker 1: University Bulldogs and now. But you know, I've been at

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Speaker 1: JCSU now, but we were not for seventeen years, seventeen

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Speaker 1: years from and I love it. Every single day. I

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Speaker 1: feel like I've had an immense impact on the students

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Speaker 1: in our Champus community, and so I love the opportunity.

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Speaker 1: It's all about impact and what we can do to

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Speaker 1: help our future generation. We hope you enjoyed the special

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Speaker 1: celebration of Women Making Change at HBCUs. We'll be back

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Speaker 1: with There Are More. There Are No Girls on the

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Speaker 1: Internet soon got a story about an interesting thing in

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Speaker 1: tech which want to say Hi? You can reach us

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Speaker 1: at Hello at tang godi dot com. You can also

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Speaker 1: find transcripts for today's episode at tang godi dot com.

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Speaker 1: There Are No Girls on the Internet was created by

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Speaker 1: me Bridget Tod. It's a production of iHeart Radio and

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Speaker 1: Unboss creative Jonathan Strickland as our executive producer. Terry Harrison

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Speaker 1: is our producer and sound engineer. Michael Almato is our

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Speaker 1: contributing producer. I'm your host, Bridget Todd. If you want

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Speaker 1: to help us grow, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts.

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Speaker 1: For more podcast from I Heeart Radio, check out the

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Speaker 1: iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.