1 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:09,240 Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Psychology of Your Twenties, 2 00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:12,240 Speaker 1: the podcast where we talk through some of the big 3 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:16,840 Speaker 1: life changes and transitions of our twenties and what they 4 00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:22,280 Speaker 1: mean for our psychology. 5 00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:26,560 Speaker 2: Hello everybody, Welcome back to the show. Welcome back to 6 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:30,600 Speaker 2: the podcast, new listeners, old listeners. Wherever you are in 7 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 2: the world, it is so great to have you here, 8 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:36,240 Speaker 2: back for another episode as we, of course break down 9 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:40,760 Speaker 2: the psychology of our twenties. Guys, it's a big one today. 10 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 2: I just have to prepare you. We're going to talk 11 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:47,800 Speaker 2: about rock bottom. We're going to talk about that moment 12 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 2: where you kind of look around at your life and 13 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 2: you think, how the hell did I get here? Not 14 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:59,360 Speaker 2: in like the cute rom con style sense, but in 15 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:03,800 Speaker 2: that dropping way where everything feels like it has collapsed 16 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:08,400 Speaker 2: at once. Maybe you've lost your job, or the relationship 17 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:11,319 Speaker 2: you thought with last forever has just ended, or you 18 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:15,480 Speaker 2: are staring at your bank account and the balance can't 19 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:17,759 Speaker 2: even cover rent, or all three of those things are 20 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:21,480 Speaker 2: happening at once, or maybe nothing dramatic has happened, but 21 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:24,280 Speaker 2: you just woke up one day and realized, Hey, I 22 00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:27,280 Speaker 2: don't even recognize myself anymore. I don't even like myself 23 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:31,240 Speaker 2: and I definitely don't like my life. That is exactly 24 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 2: what we are diving in today. That moment, that pit 25 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:37,959 Speaker 2: in the stomach is what so many of us call 26 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:42,920 Speaker 2: rock bottom, that destruction. We're going to talk about everything 27 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:46,920 Speaker 2: to do with this infamous low point, some of the 28 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:50,560 Speaker 2: examples that I can give you, including some from you guys, 29 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 2: the listeners, why we get to that point, how we 30 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 2: get to that point, as well as looking at how 31 00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:59,120 Speaker 2: we might interpret rock Bottom a little bit differently to 32 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:02,280 Speaker 2: hopefully maybe see it as a little bit of a springboard, 33 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:06,880 Speaker 2: or maybe is something positive, if that's even possible. The 34 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:10,760 Speaker 2: question I'm really just interested in is is rock Bottom 35 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:13,200 Speaker 2: actually a fresh start? Is it actually a bit of 36 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:16,359 Speaker 2: a trampoline, or is it a place that we actually 37 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:18,280 Speaker 2: all need to get to at some point in our 38 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:20,680 Speaker 2: life in order to move to the next chapter. We're 39 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:24,120 Speaker 2: gonna talk about it together. We're gonna talk about, as well, addiction, 40 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:27,240 Speaker 2: the dark Knight of the soul, if you've heard of 41 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:32,080 Speaker 2: that concept, how psychology and spirituality really intersect at rock Bottom, 42 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:36,160 Speaker 2: chronic illness, so many other things. This episode is broad 43 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:39,000 Speaker 2: and wide. If any of you resonate with this topic 44 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:41,480 Speaker 2: at the moment. I'm so glad you're here. I'm sending 45 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:43,360 Speaker 2: you so much love. I see you, I hear you. 46 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:47,400 Speaker 2: I'm glad this has found you. And I will metaphorically 47 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:51,200 Speaker 2: hold your hand through the microphone through the screen for 48 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:53,639 Speaker 2: this episode. And I really hope that what we talk 49 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:57,919 Speaker 2: about today will provide some solace or maybe just a 50 00:02:57,919 --> 00:03:01,640 Speaker 2: little bit of understanding. And what I'm sure is a 51 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:06,359 Speaker 2: very confusing, very strange time. I promised it won't last forever. 52 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:10,160 Speaker 2: I have been there, and maybe, just maybe it is 53 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 2: preparing you for something more. Let's explore that possibility. So, 54 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:23,520 Speaker 2: without further ado, let's get into the psychology of rock bottom. 55 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:27,240 Speaker 2: I think part of the reason this idea of rock 56 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 2: bottom resonates with so many of us is because we 57 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:32,800 Speaker 2: all kind of know what it feels like or we've 58 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 2: seen it. It's also incredibly personal. There isn't one objective definition. 59 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:41,280 Speaker 2: Your rock bottom might not look like mine, and mine 60 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:44,280 Speaker 2: might not look like yours. I know that my rock 61 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 2: bottom happened in twenty twenty one. I definitely talked about this, 62 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:52,720 Speaker 2: but I went through two devastating breakups in one year, 63 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:56,760 Speaker 2: literally within nine months of each other. I lost about 64 00:03:56,800 --> 00:03:59,240 Speaker 2: fifty percent of my friends in the three months after 65 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 2: I move cities where I moved cities to a place 66 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:03,840 Speaker 2: where I didn't have a job, I didn't have anything 67 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:06,600 Speaker 2: to do, I didn't know anybody. My mental health was terrible, 68 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:09,520 Speaker 2: my bank account was a disaster. I was lonely, I 69 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 2: was tired, I was lost, and I can admit now 70 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 2: I was probably drinking a little bit too much and 71 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:18,360 Speaker 2: everything was just going wrong. I also infamously had another 72 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:21,760 Speaker 2: moment like this last year. I've spoken about my mental 73 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:24,559 Speaker 2: breakdown in a couple of episodes, and that was another 74 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:27,880 Speaker 2: really low rock bottom point. And I know it sounds 75 00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:29,880 Speaker 2: weird to say, I'm sure that I could probably go 76 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:33,240 Speaker 2: lower someday. Part of me thinks that there is another 77 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:36,560 Speaker 2: rock bottom waiting for me. Is it terrifying? Yes, I 78 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 2: think part of it is also exciting, and I'll explain why. 79 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:43,919 Speaker 2: So that was my experience, And you know, that's just 80 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:47,000 Speaker 2: one person. For another person, it could be an addiction 81 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 2: spiraling out of control. For another, it's like a quiet 82 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:54,159 Speaker 2: collapse of your sense of purpose. One person DMed me 83 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:57,280 Speaker 2: about finding out that her boyfriend had cheated on her 84 00:04:57,360 --> 00:05:01,080 Speaker 2: the same day she got fired another and said it 85 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:03,719 Speaker 2: was when she realized she was in a cult. Losing 86 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:06,320 Speaker 2: a parent to cancer was another one. Someone said when 87 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 2: they realized they were only confident when they blacked out, 88 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:11,680 Speaker 2: or when they had to move back home with their 89 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 2: parents after going into a lot of debt for college. 90 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:17,760 Speaker 2: And yet all these are very different, right, but when 91 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:22,280 Speaker 2: people talk about them, there are these shared threads, these 92 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:26,360 Speaker 2: like common emotional fingerprints that help us know, Okay, I'm here, 93 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:29,360 Speaker 2: this looks like bottom to me, this is the bottom. 94 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:32,000 Speaker 2: It can't get any worse than that, or then what 95 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:35,880 Speaker 2: it is right now? Psychologists will tell you there are 96 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:40,599 Speaker 2: certain markers that come up again and again when people 97 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:45,240 Speaker 2: come into their offices and describe their lowest points. The first, 98 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:48,159 Speaker 2: and perhaps the biggest, is a loss of control and 99 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:51,279 Speaker 2: a loss of sense of self. Maybe you were once 100 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:54,400 Speaker 2: the ambitious one, the reliable one, the one who had 101 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:57,960 Speaker 2: it all together, and now it feels like where is 102 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:01,240 Speaker 2: that person? You can barely recognize yourself in the You're 103 00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:04,000 Speaker 2: not making decisions anymore. Life is just kind of happening 104 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:07,359 Speaker 2: to you. There was a twenty sixteen paper published in 105 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 2: the journal Academy of Management Review, and it used this 106 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:16,080 Speaker 2: phrase to refer to facing rock bottom. It used this 107 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:23,040 Speaker 2: phrase the crystallization of discontent. The crystallization of discontent fancy word, 108 00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 2: but it basically means this point where you just feel 109 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 2: a total sense of loss. You feel a loss of self, 110 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:34,440 Speaker 2: you feel social disorientation, even failure. And the authors say 111 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 2: that this leads to this feeling that you don't even 112 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:40,599 Speaker 2: have an identity. It's that really painful moment when you 113 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:43,560 Speaker 2: realize that who you are on the inside and who 114 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:46,400 Speaker 2: you are in the world do not line up, and 115 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:48,479 Speaker 2: maybe you can't find your way back to who you 116 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 2: really feel or think that you are, or who you 117 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:55,040 Speaker 2: are in the past. That's the first marker. The next 118 00:06:55,160 --> 00:07:01,800 Speaker 2: marker is an inability to imagine the future. Bottom. Time 119 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:07,240 Speaker 2: feels very slow and very sticky. You can't really see 120 00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 2: beyond the next day. Sometimes you maybe you can't even 121 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:13,800 Speaker 2: see beyond the next hour. You can't picture it getting better. 122 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:17,440 Speaker 2: You can't picture yourself ever, not feeling how you feel 123 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 2: right now. Psychologists studying depression describe this as future discounting. 124 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:29,800 Speaker 2: Future discounting is where distress literally makes it harder for 125 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:36,240 Speaker 2: your brain to project yourself into tomorrow. I'll be the 126 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:38,360 Speaker 2: first one to tell you, even if you can't believe 127 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:41,800 Speaker 2: it right now, I promise you this feeling won't last forever. 128 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 2: It's just the current state that you're in that is 129 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:49,000 Speaker 2: convincing you that it will. So there's this future discounting. 130 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:53,720 Speaker 2: Then there's helplessness and regret. Maybe you've tried to fix 131 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 2: things over and over. You've tried to get your drinking 132 00:07:56,920 --> 00:07:59,240 Speaker 2: under control, You've tried to find your way back on 133 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:02,080 Speaker 2: the right path, but nothing has worked, and now you 134 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 2: feel like, similar to what we said before, it never will. 135 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:11,880 Speaker 2: This connects directly to Martin Siegman's idea of learned helplessness. 136 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 2: Learned helplessness we've talked about it on the podcast before. 137 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:20,240 Speaker 2: This is a psychological state where after we basically experience 138 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:27,640 Speaker 2: a number of really stressful events or life experiences, especially 139 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:30,840 Speaker 2: experiences where we feel like we have no control, we 140 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:33,079 Speaker 2: basically just assume that we don't and we give up. 141 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:34,160 Speaker 1: We get so. 142 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:38,480 Speaker 2: Tired of trying over and over just for the outcome 143 00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:42,559 Speaker 2: to stay the same that we'd stop trying. Even when 144 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:47,240 Speaker 2: there are steps presented to us, even when someone from 145 00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:49,200 Speaker 2: the outside could say, well, this is exactly what you 146 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:52,360 Speaker 2: need to do, we just can't see it. And finally, 147 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:57,360 Speaker 2: the final marker of rock bottom often is associated with 148 00:08:57,400 --> 00:09:05,240 Speaker 2: some kind of collapse, relationship breakdown, financial hardship, burnout, chronic illness. 149 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:09,160 Speaker 2: Sometimes it's all these things at once. That collapse can 150 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:13,679 Speaker 2: feel like a life demolition. Everything you thought was holding 151 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:17,080 Speaker 2: you up, everything that you were relying on, has crumbled, 152 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:20,680 Speaker 2: and you're kind of left standing in the rubble, being like, 153 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 2: what where do I even start right now? Like, what 154 00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:26,479 Speaker 2: is the first thing I need to rebuild when everything 155 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:31,480 Speaker 2: is on fire? So maybe you're listening to this and thinking, oh, yeah, 156 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:36,240 Speaker 2: that's totally me right now, I'm in that moment. Maybe 157 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:38,640 Speaker 2: you've been there before, Maybe you're terrified of ending up 158 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:42,319 Speaker 2: there one day, whatever you are thinking, wherever you are 159 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:45,199 Speaker 2: right now, whatever you are feeling right now, I think 160 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:50,280 Speaker 2: it's important to recognize rock bottom is not permanent. It 161 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:56,320 Speaker 2: is absolutely not. People cannot live their whole lives in 162 00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:58,440 Speaker 2: a permanent rock bottom. We're going to discuss that a 163 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:01,160 Speaker 2: little bit more later on, but I just want to 164 00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 2: give you that reminder so that if rock bottom is 165 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:07,480 Speaker 2: where you are right now, as we go into why 166 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:09,679 Speaker 2: this may be has happened to you, you have a 167 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:12,560 Speaker 2: little bit of hope for the future. So if you 168 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:16,240 Speaker 2: are in this place, you might be asking yourself like, 169 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:18,559 Speaker 2: how did I end up here? When did this begin? 170 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:24,640 Speaker 2: One significant cause of rock bottom is that we may 171 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:30,320 Speaker 2: have just experienced the entire collapse of our identity and 172 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:35,160 Speaker 2: our self concept. This happens actually quite frequently when we 173 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:40,960 Speaker 2: first reach adulthood. A particularly useful lens for us to 174 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:46,360 Speaker 2: understand is this idea from Jennifer Campbell of self concept clarity. 175 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:53,560 Speaker 2: Self concept clarity is essentially how clearly and confidently you 176 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:56,480 Speaker 2: are able to say who you are or able to 177 00:10:56,520 --> 00:11:00,440 Speaker 2: identify who you are. It's the difference between someone who 178 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:04,640 Speaker 2: can describe their values, describe their priorities, have a sense 179 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 2: of consistency within their goals and how they act, versus 180 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:12,720 Speaker 2: someone who feels like they are living out seven different 181 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:17,240 Speaker 2: identities and that their whole life is fragmented. When people 182 00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:21,000 Speaker 2: hit rock bottom, this clarity of self concept often plummets 183 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:24,840 Speaker 2: your sense of identity. The lens through which you interpret 184 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:28,240 Speaker 2: the world becomes deeply unstable. We can see why that 185 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:31,199 Speaker 2: happens a lot in our twenties because things are shifting 186 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:34,440 Speaker 2: so rapidly, things that we often rest a lot of 187 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:38,320 Speaker 2: our identity on like our relationship, like what school we 188 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:41,920 Speaker 2: go to, like our job, like our family, and because 189 00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:46,080 Speaker 2: you don't have anything to anchor yourself to, your internal 190 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:50,040 Speaker 2: compass gets kind of thrown off the mark. Now, if 191 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:54,079 Speaker 2: you have high self concept clarity, it's not just that 192 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:57,480 Speaker 2: you know who you are, it's that you also know 193 00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 2: what you need, so you are actively able to seek 194 00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:03,880 Speaker 2: social support, You are actively able to see your way 195 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:08,240 Speaker 2: out of a crisis, to nourish good quality relationships. It 196 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:12,960 Speaker 2: might not be that surprising, but research consistently ties low 197 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 2: clarity with mental health difficulties and loneliness, and also things 198 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:22,040 Speaker 2: like anxiety and depression. This is all contributing to this 199 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:25,200 Speaker 2: feeling of being at rock bottom. You can see why 200 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:27,000 Speaker 2: maybe this has a lot to do with just the 201 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:29,560 Speaker 2: decade that you're in, that this is just something that 202 00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:32,400 Speaker 2: you don't have to experience, but a lot of people 203 00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:38,000 Speaker 2: are for very similar reasons. Another significant pathway to rock bottom, 204 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:40,960 Speaker 2: and something that I feel links to losing a sense 205 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:44,480 Speaker 2: of identity is living in a passive state. This is 206 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:50,439 Speaker 2: often described in psychology as having an external locus of control. 207 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:55,079 Speaker 2: This is where we basically end up maybe unconsciously perceiving 208 00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 2: life as something that happens to us rather than something 209 00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:01,520 Speaker 2: that we can influence. You might drive through your days 210 00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:04,720 Speaker 2: feeling like decisions are kind of imposed on you, that 211 00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:08,679 Speaker 2: everyone else has these opportunities and they're just kind of 212 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:12,720 Speaker 2: passing you by, that every little thing you try to 213 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:16,079 Speaker 2: get out of your situation does not work. Over time, 214 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:20,800 Speaker 2: this sense of passivity accumulates stress and kind of creates 215 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:25,400 Speaker 2: a slow motion resignation to life again. Studies have shown 216 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:29,480 Speaker 2: that adults with an external locus of control are more 217 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:34,400 Speaker 2: prone to anxiety, depression, and learned helplessness, particularly during major 218 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:37,160 Speaker 2: life transitions like those that are common in our twenties. 219 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:40,440 Speaker 2: In real life, what that means is that you know 220 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:42,920 Speaker 2: you hate your job, but you feel like you can't 221 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:45,560 Speaker 2: leave there's no other option. You know you don't like 222 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:48,920 Speaker 2: your relationship or your friendships, but you feel like you 223 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:52,560 Speaker 2: will never find anything or anyone better. You know that 224 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:56,319 Speaker 2: your mental health is spiraling. You know that you're more 225 00:13:56,320 --> 00:13:59,120 Speaker 2: anxious than you've ever been. You know that things are 226 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:03,720 Speaker 2: going wrong, but for some reason you cannot seem to 227 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 2: find a solution. Small choices get deferred until suddenly you 228 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:11,760 Speaker 2: wake up and you feel trapped, which is of course 229 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 2: the predecessor to hitting rock Bottom. When looking into the 230 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:19,720 Speaker 2: research on this topic, a lot of it's centered around 231 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:22,880 Speaker 2: the role of addiction. And this can really be caused 232 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:26,520 Speaker 2: by and contribute to a lot of the factors that 233 00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:29,080 Speaker 2: we've already mentioned before. And I'm not just talking about 234 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:34,680 Speaker 2: an addiction to certain substances. I'm talking about addiction to chaos, 235 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:38,960 Speaker 2: addiction to a certain kind of relationship, addiction to a 236 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:43,360 Speaker 2: certain person. Before we get into this, I feel like 237 00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:45,320 Speaker 2: this is a whole new chapter for this episode. So 238 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:47,920 Speaker 2: we are going to take a short break, go get 239 00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:50,480 Speaker 2: a cup of tea or wash them dishes. We will 240 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:58,400 Speaker 2: be right back. We basically like we can't talk about 241 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:01,680 Speaker 2: rock Bottom without talking about a d Someone even say 242 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:04,720 Speaker 2: that the addiction space is where the idea of rock 243 00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:07,560 Speaker 2: Bottom was really invented or given a name. It is 244 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:10,440 Speaker 2: one of the most powerful pathways to this moment or 245 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:14,880 Speaker 2: this period of despair and loss, and just like fragmentation, 246 00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:18,560 Speaker 2: not just because of the behaviors themselves, but because of 247 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:23,320 Speaker 2: the cascading kind of effects addiction will have on every 248 00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:27,000 Speaker 2: part of our life. Again, we're not just talking about 249 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:31,040 Speaker 2: substances here. We're not just talking about alcohol or drugs 250 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:37,120 Speaker 2: or gambling or whatever it is. There are so many things, relationships, 251 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:41,600 Speaker 2: situations that we can become addicted to because in some 252 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:44,360 Speaker 2: sense they give us a feeling of being actually very alive, 253 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:47,600 Speaker 2: and when everything's going wrong, sometimes that's the only feeling 254 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:51,040 Speaker 2: we want. A lot of neuroscience research, especially the work 255 00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:55,120 Speaker 2: of the National Institute on Drug Abuse, shows that addiction 256 00:15:55,560 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 2: of any form rewires the brain's reward systems. Normally, normally, 257 00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:04,080 Speaker 2: dopamine helps us feel motivated. We know what makes us 258 00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 2: feel satisfied when we meet our goals. We know it 259 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:11,560 Speaker 2: helps us experience pleasure. But what addiction does is hijack 260 00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:15,520 Speaker 2: this system, making it so that the substance that we 261 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:19,000 Speaker 2: are engaging in, or the behavior, or the relationship or 262 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:23,080 Speaker 2: the situation is the primary source of reward. And so, 263 00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:26,960 Speaker 2: over time, everyday activities that used to bring you joy, 264 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:32,239 Speaker 2: like spending time with your friends, exercising, accomplishing goals hobbies, 265 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:35,480 Speaker 2: they lose their appeal. They can't give you the same 266 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:38,320 Speaker 2: hit that the substance or this thing can give you. 267 00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:42,960 Speaker 2: So as natural rewards or long term rewards lose, meaning, 268 00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:46,680 Speaker 2: self regulation through those things becomes harder and harder. So 269 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:51,000 Speaker 2: the only resource we have left, or the only coping 270 00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:55,160 Speaker 2: strategy is to engage in the addictive behavior even when 271 00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:58,120 Speaker 2: it is clearly causing us harm. And with that tension 272 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:02,120 Speaker 2: of knowing something is damaging us but feeling unable to stop, 273 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:05,119 Speaker 2: it is very easy to see how that spirals and 274 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:09,720 Speaker 2: spirals into rock bottom. The addictive behaviors basically begin to 275 00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:13,640 Speaker 2: dominate everything. They dominate obviously our life, but they dominate 276 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:16,199 Speaker 2: that through our time, through our energy, through what we 277 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:18,600 Speaker 2: think about, meaning that it kind of is like a 278 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:21,880 Speaker 2: balloon that is expanding in a tight space that leaves 279 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:25,800 Speaker 2: not much room for anything else. We also know it 280 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:31,040 Speaker 2: erodes the social and structural scaffolding of a fulfilled life. 281 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:38,880 Speaker 2: Relationships really do suffer under addictive tension. You know, Addiction 282 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:42,359 Speaker 2: can lead us to break people's trust, to be irritable, 283 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:46,719 Speaker 2: to neglect our relationship, to have arguments, and it can 284 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:49,560 Speaker 2: also lead to tension at work, you know, jobs, maybe lost, 285 00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:54,760 Speaker 2: bills go unpaid, health deteriorates, and as these external supports collapse, 286 00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:58,200 Speaker 2: people often feel very very alone, as though the world 287 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:01,879 Speaker 2: is closing in. And that's where rock bottom hits. At 288 00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:07,439 Speaker 2: that intersection of internal and external breakdown. Your rewired brain 289 00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:12,119 Speaker 2: is craving the addictive substance or behavior, and then you 290 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:16,040 Speaker 2: also are no longer grounded by support or by things 291 00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:18,840 Speaker 2: outside of the addiction. It's very easy to kind of 292 00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:22,399 Speaker 2: float away with it. Addiction is obviously a very fast 293 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:24,600 Speaker 2: tracked pathway to this. You don't have to have experienced 294 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:28,760 Speaker 2: an addiction in order to feel rock bottom, but it definitely, 295 00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:32,960 Speaker 2: I think is a great way of demonstrating how it's 296 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:36,040 Speaker 2: this culmination of a lot of things that pushes people 297 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:40,080 Speaker 2: to the edge. I will also say rock bottom rarely 298 00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:46,719 Speaker 2: happens overnight. People can experience severe tragedy, and rock bottom 299 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:52,359 Speaker 2: doesn't actually occur until days, weeks, months later, when they 300 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:54,760 Speaker 2: realize what they've lost, or when they realize all the 301 00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:57,119 Speaker 2: other things that have kind of disappeared from their life. 302 00:18:57,400 --> 00:18:59,760 Speaker 2: So more often than not, it is a gradual accumulation 303 00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:07,160 Speaker 2: of strain, magnified by certain life events, by relationship breakdown, 304 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:11,679 Speaker 2: by psychological breakdown, or kind of coming at once. So 305 00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:15,840 Speaker 2: this is why you might sometimes hear psychologists refer to 306 00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:21,879 Speaker 2: or compare hitting bottom to experiencing trauma, because similar to 307 00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:25,160 Speaker 2: when we experience trauma, it can often trigger a state 308 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:28,200 Speaker 2: of survival mode. We can be so overwhelmed with kind 309 00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:31,680 Speaker 2: of what's going on around us or within us that 310 00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:34,800 Speaker 2: we either switch into the state of being on constant 311 00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:39,920 Speaker 2: hi alert and hypervigilance, or alternatively, we completely shut down. 312 00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:49,639 Speaker 2: At rock bottom, you feel these huge emotions sadness, despair, shame, guilt, 313 00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:56,879 Speaker 2: maybe anxiety, of course, but equally you might actually feel nothing, 314 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:01,160 Speaker 2: might feel completely apathetic, because at the base of it, 315 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:03,720 Speaker 2: what's really happening is that we feel out of control. 316 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:08,399 Speaker 2: And if we were to meaningfully try and engage with 317 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:10,600 Speaker 2: all the things that are happening in our life right now, 318 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:14,320 Speaker 2: it would overwhelm us so completely we don't think that 319 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:17,080 Speaker 2: we could manage, and so we just kind of turn 320 00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:19,560 Speaker 2: our back to it. It's not a deliberate thing. It's 321 00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:23,640 Speaker 2: a survival strategy. And here's where it gets complicated, because yeah, 322 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:27,040 Speaker 2: that really sucks, and that's really awful and our life 323 00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:33,840 Speaker 2: is falling apart. But sometimes people interpret rock bottom as 324 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:37,440 Speaker 2: kind of a good thing. Some people talk about it 325 00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:42,439 Speaker 2: like it is kind of necessary. It's a kind of 326 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:48,400 Speaker 2: force that demands confrontation with ourselves. We have to get 327 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 2: to this point in order to confront deeper things that 328 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:55,520 Speaker 2: we may never actually look face on. So you may 329 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:58,600 Speaker 2: have heard of this phrase, the dark night of the soul. 330 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:02,639 Speaker 2: It originates from a poem from like thousands of years ago, 331 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:06,160 Speaker 2: maybe hundreds of years ago, like the sixteenth century, by 332 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:08,639 Speaker 2: Saint John of the Cross. He was this Spanish priest, 333 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:12,240 Speaker 2: and he basically used this phrase to describe a spiritual 334 00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:17,879 Speaker 2: phase where God withdrew his comfort, leaving people feeling lost 335 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:21,440 Speaker 2: and alone. With this idea in mind, it was kind 336 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:24,600 Speaker 2: of believed that this was a necessary path for spiritually 337 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 2: or religious people, where they had to kind of shed 338 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:32,000 Speaker 2: self reliance and any existing detachments they had in their 339 00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:35,720 Speaker 2: life to have a deeper connection with God. God puts 340 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:39,320 Speaker 2: them in this terrible hard place so that they find him. 341 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:43,760 Speaker 2: Of course, that is a very religious and spiritually heavy meaning, 342 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:48,919 Speaker 2: but psychologists and spiritual thinkers nowadays use it to describe 343 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:52,440 Speaker 2: a lot more than just a spiritual epiphany. It's where 344 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:55,200 Speaker 2: everything in life kind of falls apart and we are 345 00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:58,600 Speaker 2: compelled to really confront who we really are. Carl Jung 346 00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:04,600 Speaker 2: suggests that these dark knights are actually unavoidable psychological rights 347 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:07,880 Speaker 2: of passage that force us to face what he calls 348 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:11,720 Speaker 2: the shadow aspects of ourselves. The shadow aspects of ourselves 349 00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:16,560 Speaker 2: are the thoughts, impulses, fears, patterns, parts of our identity 350 00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:20,680 Speaker 2: that we habitually ignore or deny that are secretly sabotaging us. 351 00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:25,200 Speaker 2: And he argued that if we don't ever have these 352 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:29,200 Speaker 2: moments of confronting them, the shadow will continue to control 353 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:35,119 Speaker 2: us unconsciously. And so it's through these painful moments that 354 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:38,960 Speaker 2: we are able to actually confront these messier parts of 355 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:42,199 Speaker 2: us that are not working. You may have heard the 356 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:46,720 Speaker 2: name Victor Frankel. He is a Holocaust survivor and a psychologist, 357 00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:50,879 Speaker 2: and he wrote this book, Man Search for Meaning, And 358 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:54,879 Speaker 2: in this book, he basically argued that even when life 359 00:22:55,000 --> 00:23:00,280 Speaker 2: strips us of almost everything, our freedom, security, purpose, family, 360 00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:04,679 Speaker 2: there remains one freedom we can never lose, which is 361 00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:09,280 Speaker 2: the ability to choose how we respond. And so rock 362 00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:16,919 Speaker 2: bottom in this sense, at this existential crossroads, basically is 363 00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:22,560 Speaker 2: when we find ourselves and our true power clearer than 364 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:27,480 Speaker 2: we've ever noticed it before. Basically, when the external world collapses, 365 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:32,639 Speaker 2: you are forced to dig deep and find true meaning internally. 366 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:37,000 Speaker 2: As paradoxical as it sounds, rock bottom is actually a 367 00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:42,560 Speaker 2: real fertile ground for growth, purpose, a renewed sense of direction. 368 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:47,080 Speaker 2: So if we look at it in this light, you know, 369 00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:53,120 Speaker 2: maybe this is the place where momentum actually begins. There's 370 00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:55,440 Speaker 2: a blank page in front of you. You've been gifted 371 00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 2: the chance to start over, and whilst that blank page 372 00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:06,120 Speaker 2: is terrifying, it can also be liberating. Modern psychology echoes 373 00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:11,040 Speaker 2: this through the idea of post traumatic growth. We know 374 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:16,400 Speaker 2: post traumatic stress. Post Traumatic growth, though, is a concept 375 00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:19,040 Speaker 2: that kind of came to light in the nineties that 376 00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:25,040 Speaker 2: suggested that people who endure profound struggle from trauma to illness, 377 00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:29,480 Speaker 2: to loss, to major life changes to addiction often reports 378 00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:35,760 Speaker 2: significant positive changes afterwards. This might include things like a 379 00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:43,480 Speaker 2: deeper appreciation of life, stronger relationships, new priorities, heightened sense 380 00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:47,960 Speaker 2: of personal strength, and sometimes even a real deep spiritual development. 381 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:51,439 Speaker 2: Of course, this is not always going to be the case. 382 00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:54,800 Speaker 2: We don't want to make like a mass generalization that 383 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:57,040 Speaker 2: anyone who goes through trauma is going to come out 384 00:24:57,080 --> 00:25:01,080 Speaker 2: better than before, but psychologically from them description, this does 385 00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:05,720 Speaker 2: make sense. In some cases. Hitting rock bottom again disrupts 386 00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:09,119 Speaker 2: the old ways of being there routines the identities that 387 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:14,040 Speaker 2: no longer serve us. You really have to evaluate, Hey, 388 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:19,840 Speaker 2: what do I really care? About what do I really 389 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:25,240 Speaker 2: believe in? Is this discomfort a sign that I meant 390 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:28,359 Speaker 2: for more? One final way that we can understand this, 391 00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:31,359 Speaker 2: just to give you a few explanations, is through the 392 00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:35,400 Speaker 2: lens of crisis theory. And this idea is that when 393 00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:39,439 Speaker 2: a person faces a crisis so overwhelming that old coping 394 00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:43,359 Speaker 2: strategies no longer work, they are forced to develop new ones. 395 00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:48,880 Speaker 2: In other words, we are pushed to a point where 396 00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:51,960 Speaker 2: we really have to see how deeply can go, and 397 00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:57,840 Speaker 2: we really have to encounter and really acknowledge and appreciate 398 00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:02,240 Speaker 2: every single strength that we may have, every single skill 399 00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:05,399 Speaker 2: that we may have in our talkit, and the theory 400 00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:08,000 Speaker 2: is that that actually makes us feel better or more 401 00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:11,120 Speaker 2: capable in the long run. I've been really into ultra 402 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:15,200 Speaker 2: marathon documentaries recently, and just like ultra marathoning in general, 403 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:20,240 Speaker 2: as an observer, not a participant obviously, And something that 404 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:24,280 Speaker 2: I've noticed in these documentaries is that so many of 405 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:27,720 Speaker 2: these athletes talk about this idea of the pain cave. 406 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:30,679 Speaker 2: I first heard about it from Courtney Dolwater, who is 407 00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:35,040 Speaker 2: my dream guest by the way, just the coolest woman ever. 408 00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:39,040 Speaker 2: If anyone has a hookup I she is my number 409 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:41,840 Speaker 2: one dream guest. This woman is so cool. She's like 410 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:45,240 Speaker 2: one of the best ultra marathon runners male or female 411 00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:49,400 Speaker 2: in the world. And she describes the pain cave as 412 00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:53,560 Speaker 2: this point in a race where every single part of 413 00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:55,840 Speaker 2: you wants to give up, Every single fiber of you 414 00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:59,439 Speaker 2: is saying, please, can we quit? And yet you find 415 00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:03,040 Speaker 2: this new reserve of energy and motivation and you push through, 416 00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:05,560 Speaker 2: and that is when you discover this whole new level 417 00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:08,480 Speaker 2: of what you're capable of, but also of who you are. 418 00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:11,000 Speaker 2: And I love that idea, Like I don't to be fair, 419 00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:13,000 Speaker 2: I don't ever want to be in that situation, Like 420 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:17,119 Speaker 2: this woman is running like five hundred miles, which I 421 00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:20,280 Speaker 2: don't even I can't even compute how actually long that is. 422 00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:24,520 Speaker 2: But it's so fascinating to see other people discuss it 423 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:28,000 Speaker 2: and to see how other people have discovered this. Maybe 424 00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:30,080 Speaker 2: that's really what this moment is for you. You're in 425 00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:33,399 Speaker 2: the pain cave? What can you discover about yourself? So 426 00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:39,520 Speaker 2: a really important caveat here for people who are experiencing addiction. 427 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:44,600 Speaker 2: There is definitely this really strange rhetoric online that says 428 00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:47,040 Speaker 2: that the only way to overcome your addiction is to 429 00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:51,840 Speaker 2: find your rock bottom first. A lot of people talk about, 430 00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:54,159 Speaker 2: you know, what was the moment when you really realized 431 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:56,080 Speaker 2: you needed to change? What was the moment where you 432 00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:58,840 Speaker 2: hit rock bottom where you know, you did something terrible 433 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:02,960 Speaker 2: to your family, or you did something morally despicable or 434 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:06,480 Speaker 2: something that disgusted you, and that in itself was like 435 00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:09,679 Speaker 2: a catalyst for change. I do think that sometimes this 436 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:12,879 Speaker 2: can be very unhelpful. Firstly, who gets to decide or 437 00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:16,879 Speaker 2: define what that rock bottom is? And secondly it also 438 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:24,080 Speaker 2: means that people really struggling with addiction, what they may 439 00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:27,440 Speaker 2: find is that they feel like they have to push 440 00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:33,000 Speaker 2: further in order to recover. So, like aside from the 441 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:37,560 Speaker 2: clear health risks of this, people waiting for this elusive 442 00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:41,200 Speaker 2: rock bottom point may find that it never comes, may 443 00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:44,240 Speaker 2: find that they can always go deeper, may find themselves 444 00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:50,000 Speaker 2: further isolating themselves or burning bridges, or tunneling further into 445 00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:52,520 Speaker 2: their addiction to get to this point so that they 446 00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:56,800 Speaker 2: can rebuild. So, if you are facing challenges related to addiction, 447 00:28:57,240 --> 00:28:59,040 Speaker 2: I just want to say you do not need to 448 00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:02,600 Speaker 2: wait until the crisis point to get help or to change. 449 00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:06,400 Speaker 2: Same with mental health as well. At any stage the 450 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:09,240 Speaker 2: moment that you realize, hey, this is really not working 451 00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:12,080 Speaker 2: for me. This doesn't feel good. Why am I doing this? 452 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:15,000 Speaker 2: My life isn't happy. You can say to yourself, this 453 00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:17,360 Speaker 2: is my rock bottom. You don't have to wait until 454 00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:21,720 Speaker 2: it meets or surpasses someone else's story of rock bottom 455 00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:25,120 Speaker 2: to be able to get help. So, although rock bottom, 456 00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:28,360 Speaker 2: as I've described it can be seen as transformative, I 457 00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:30,959 Speaker 2: would urge you if you're struggling with mental health, with addiction, 458 00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:37,080 Speaker 2: rock bottom isn't a requirement for change. It's not at all. 459 00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:40,360 Speaker 2: With that being said, if you are here right now, 460 00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:43,480 Speaker 2: if you are at or near rock bottom, the question 461 00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:49,120 Speaker 2: really becomes, how do you climb out? I'm sorry, I 462 00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:52,720 Speaker 2: have to say it. I can't give you an instant fix, 463 00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:54,840 Speaker 2: I'm sorry, And I cannot give you a neat five 464 00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:58,520 Speaker 2: step plan that's gonna magically restore everything in your life 465 00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:01,240 Speaker 2: that has been removed or that you have lost, maybe 466 00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:03,240 Speaker 2: for a reason, but I am going to give you 467 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:07,000 Speaker 2: some tools of how to make a start. First, and 468 00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:11,200 Speaker 2: some people won't like that, I'm gonna say this, but first, 469 00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:17,800 Speaker 2: let yourself grieve and show some self pity, let yourself 470 00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:21,080 Speaker 2: be sad for yourself. I think this sounds and feels 471 00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:25,520 Speaker 2: counterintuitive because the current culture around us really forces this 472 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:29,640 Speaker 2: toxic positivity onto us all and tells us that you 473 00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:33,400 Speaker 2: are not supposed to let yourself suffer, or to feel 474 00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:38,600 Speaker 2: hard emotions, or to feel bad for yourself. Suppressing emotions 475 00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:41,280 Speaker 2: doesn't mean they disappear, it doesn't mean they don't exist. 476 00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:44,600 Speaker 2: It actually just makes them even stronger and likely to 477 00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:48,280 Speaker 2: pop up in other ways. If you're in this position, 478 00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:50,920 Speaker 2: you've likely had to let go of a lot, You 479 00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:56,320 Speaker 2: have likely lost a lot, you have likely really suffered. 480 00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:02,120 Speaker 2: Grieve these parts, feel those emotions. Maybe it's also a 481 00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:05,760 Speaker 2: way to counteract this numb state that you found yourself in. 482 00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:09,040 Speaker 2: You can't process an emotion if you never feel it, 483 00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:12,640 Speaker 2: so if you're at rock bottom, you're allowed to sit 484 00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:15,720 Speaker 2: in self pity for a little while. That is part 485 00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:19,680 Speaker 2: of acceptance. It's also part of processing and therefore being 486 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:24,560 Speaker 2: able to act and move on from this moment. Second, 487 00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:27,880 Speaker 2: we've talked about this a few times, acknowledge that this 488 00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:31,840 Speaker 2: is your rock bottom. Narrative psychology shows us that the 489 00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:35,480 Speaker 2: way we frame our life stories shapes our well being 490 00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:38,800 Speaker 2: and how we view our lives, and that is incredibly important. 491 00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:42,960 Speaker 2: When you say to yourself, yes, this is my rock bottom, 492 00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:45,600 Speaker 2: you're not just naming your pain, which is obviously important, 493 00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:49,320 Speaker 2: but you're also situating it so it becomes a chapter 494 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:53,400 Speaker 2: of your life, not the whole book. And that shift 495 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:56,280 Speaker 2: and perspective from this is the end my life sucks 496 00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:59,280 Speaker 2: to this is just part of my story, an important 497 00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:01,600 Speaker 2: part of my story. The dark Knight of my soul 498 00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:04,920 Speaker 2: can soften the pain that you're feeling, or at least 499 00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:08,840 Speaker 2: give it a leaning or a reason. It transforms rockbottom 500 00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:13,560 Speaker 2: from this infinite pit that we know comes from future 501 00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:17,880 Speaker 2: discounting into this definable moment that allows you to kind 502 00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:21,200 Speaker 2: of almost project into the future and realize that in hindsight, 503 00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:26,160 Speaker 2: maybe I'm going to see this differently. Maybe not right now, 504 00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:31,080 Speaker 2: but maybe in the future. Next, seek out what we 505 00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:35,920 Speaker 2: call little islands of competence. At rock bottom, everything feels overwhelming. 506 00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:38,120 Speaker 2: Where do I start? What's the first step? What do 507 00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:41,160 Speaker 2: I do? The future is very blurry. The big picture 508 00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:44,280 Speaker 2: is a way too much to handle. So don't don't 509 00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:48,680 Speaker 2: handle the big picture. Focus on this small wins. Focus 510 00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:51,920 Speaker 2: on one thing you can do today that is going 511 00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:56,720 Speaker 2: to increase your coping, increase your productivity, increase your relationships, 512 00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:58,920 Speaker 2: improve things for you. You don't need to put the 513 00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:02,160 Speaker 2: added pressure on your to like overhaul your life in 514 00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:04,040 Speaker 2: a night or in a week, or to bounce back 515 00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:06,360 Speaker 2: and be like the happiest person alive, and that there 516 00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:08,240 Speaker 2: is some kind of timeline that you need to get 517 00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:11,080 Speaker 2: over this within a month or it's gonna last forever. 518 00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:14,880 Speaker 2: Just pick one small thing you think you can control 519 00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:17,520 Speaker 2: and do that for yourself today. Cook yourself a meal, 520 00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:21,440 Speaker 2: take yourself for a walk, journal for two minutes. Even 521 00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:26,880 Speaker 2: tiny moments of success begin to restore your sense of agency, competence, 522 00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:31,840 Speaker 2: and confidence. They remind you like, hey, yeah, I can't 523 00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:35,239 Speaker 2: control this big, terrible mess that I'm in. But I 524 00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:38,160 Speaker 2: can decide that I'm gonna go and order ice cream tonight. 525 00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:41,240 Speaker 2: I can decide that I'm gonna get out of the 526 00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:44,120 Speaker 2: house and do some exercise. I can decide that I'm 527 00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:48,240 Speaker 2: gonna book this appointment with my doctor. Those things snowball 528 00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:52,080 Speaker 2: into bigger things over time. Fourth and maybe this actually 529 00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:53,800 Speaker 2: should have been third, because I think it links to 530 00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:55,840 Speaker 2: our I think it links to one of the things 531 00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:58,760 Speaker 2: one of the tips I gave above. But just see 532 00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:02,400 Speaker 2: your situation in the context that it's actually existing rather 533 00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:05,600 Speaker 2: than the context that you've created for it. Zoom out 534 00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:08,759 Speaker 2: a little bit. It's natural to feel like no one 535 00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:12,560 Speaker 2: could possibly understand what you're going through, But I think 536 00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:15,319 Speaker 2: this is one way in which comparison might actually be 537 00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:18,440 Speaker 2: a good thing. It can be really helpful to look 538 00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:22,320 Speaker 2: at others who face similar struggles to normalize your own experience. 539 00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:25,759 Speaker 2: You know, a few months back, when I released that 540 00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:29,839 Speaker 2: episode talking about my mental breakdown, oh my god, I 541 00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:32,800 Speaker 2: was so scared and I was also in a terrible place. 542 00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:36,799 Speaker 2: But the amount of comments and messages I received from 543 00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:40,040 Speaker 2: people saying it had helped or that they were going 544 00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:43,920 Speaker 2: through the same thing was amazing. And guess what, it 545 00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:47,480 Speaker 2: made me feel better. Just the idea that this was 546 00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:50,600 Speaker 2: not something that I had to experience alone, or that 547 00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:53,480 Speaker 2: I was not the only person in the world who 548 00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:57,160 Speaker 2: had this feeling felt great because I didn't feel lonely 549 00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:01,560 Speaker 2: or isolated in my experience. So looking to other podcasts, 550 00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:07,839 Speaker 2: to books, to interviews, whatever it is, of people who 551 00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:11,160 Speaker 2: are going through the same thing, they are all social 552 00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:14,520 Speaker 2: opportunities for validation of what you're going through. They are 553 00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:18,560 Speaker 2: also living proof that other people have had challenges and 554 00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:22,160 Speaker 2: I've they've found their way through. That's vicarious learning, right, 555 00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:26,440 Speaker 2: a vicarious form of validation of like, hey, if they 556 00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:29,480 Speaker 2: were okay, maybe I will be as well. Last but 557 00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:35,160 Speaker 2: certainly not least change your environment. I'm not saying move 558 00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:38,400 Speaker 2: to a new city straight away. In fact, there have 559 00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:40,720 Speaker 2: been studies that have shown that your problems will follow 560 00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:45,040 Speaker 2: you there. But sometimes you just need small environmental shifts 561 00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:47,840 Speaker 2: that signal to your brain that are fresh started's underway. 562 00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:50,320 Speaker 2: And also, maybe you can move to a new city. 563 00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:53,279 Speaker 2: It might not fix all your problems, maybe all fix 564 00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:55,840 Speaker 2: one problem, and maybe that one problem is where everything 565 00:35:55,920 --> 00:36:01,240 Speaker 2: is stemming from. Just change your surroundings. Environmental psychology shows 566 00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:06,200 Speaker 2: us that our environment shapes our mindset, So rearranging your room, 567 00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:09,640 Speaker 2: buying new bedding, taking a different route to work, spending 568 00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:13,920 Speaker 2: more time in nature. These small cues can help break 569 00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:18,359 Speaker 2: old associations and create space for new patterns. Because you're 570 00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:21,640 Speaker 2: not in the same environment. They tell your brain and 571 00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:25,359 Speaker 2: your nervous system, hey, things are different now. Look around us, 572 00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:29,040 Speaker 2: things are different, which does make change feel more possible. 573 00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:34,799 Speaker 2: Making those really small changes in your routine leaves a 574 00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:39,040 Speaker 2: less room for old patterns and behaviors to resurface, and 575 00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:42,040 Speaker 2: that is what gives you a fresh approach to life. 576 00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:46,279 Speaker 2: Rock Bottom is truly terrifying. It can feel like the 577 00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:49,160 Speaker 2: end of everything we know. And yet I want to 578 00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:55,759 Speaker 2: remind you again, across psychology, philosophy, across spirituality and religion 579 00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:59,399 Speaker 2: and lived experience, we see that it's not the end. 580 00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:02,439 Speaker 2: For a lot of people. It is the pivot, it's 581 00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:06,480 Speaker 2: the threshold, it's the trampoline. If you are here right now, 582 00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:10,280 Speaker 2: I promise you that there is a point in the future. 583 00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:13,840 Speaker 2: There is a version of you in the future looking 584 00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:17,319 Speaker 2: at you right now thinking gosh, I don't think they 585 00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:20,200 Speaker 2: know how good it's gonna get. I don't think they know. 586 00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:23,399 Speaker 2: This isn't the end. Even if you can't see it yet, 587 00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:27,640 Speaker 2: even if the fog hasn't lifted, transformation is possible, and 588 00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:30,799 Speaker 2: it happens slowly until you blink and you are just 589 00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:33,440 Speaker 2: so grateful for the new life that you're going to 590 00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:36,000 Speaker 2: find yourself in. I'll be the one to tell you that, 591 00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:38,120 Speaker 2: even if you don't believe it at the moment, you're 592 00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:42,120 Speaker 2: going to be Okay. I've been there, and sometimes when 593 00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:46,120 Speaker 2: you hit rock bottom, literally the only way to go 594 00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:50,520 Speaker 2: is up. You can't tunnel any deeper. Everyone has a 595 00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:54,440 Speaker 2: point where they're like they really hit their threshold for 596 00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:58,360 Speaker 2: what they're able to tolerate or what life can give them, 597 00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:01,120 Speaker 2: and then their luck begins to change. All they begin 598 00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:05,239 Speaker 2: to change. So I feel that for you, I know 599 00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:08,120 Speaker 2: you're gonna be okay. I know that this moment is terrible, 600 00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:12,160 Speaker 2: but it's also influential. So just wishing you luck and 601 00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:14,440 Speaker 2: wishing you happiness in the future, and hoping that this 602 00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:17,560 Speaker 2: episode resonated with you, whether you are in your twenties, 603 00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:20,360 Speaker 2: in your thirties, in your seventies. I always feel like 604 00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:23,560 Speaker 2: there's capacity for us to change and that these moments 605 00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:27,359 Speaker 2: cannot be our whole life, So thank you so much 606 00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:31,160 Speaker 2: for listening. I also appreciate everyone who DMed me with 607 00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:35,680 Speaker 2: their rock bottom experiences and contributed to this episode. I 608 00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:40,040 Speaker 2: found them really quite emotional and revealing to read, and 609 00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:42,560 Speaker 2: they definitely informed how I approached this episode, so I 610 00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:45,920 Speaker 2: appreciate you guys sharing with me. I also want to 611 00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:50,759 Speaker 2: thank our wonderful researcher Libby Colbert for her contributions to 612 00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:54,520 Speaker 2: this episode. She is just like the most fantastic individual 613 00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:56,600 Speaker 2: and I'm so lucky that we have her on the 614 00:38:56,600 --> 00:39:00,239 Speaker 2: team now, So thank you Libby for your research and 615 00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:03,760 Speaker 2: for your fact checking and for finding some cool studies 616 00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:07,839 Speaker 2: for this episode. As always, wherever you are listening right now, 617 00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:10,800 Speaker 2: make sure that you are following along, give us a review, 618 00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:13,560 Speaker 2: give us a rating, especially if you're on Apple Podcasts. 619 00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:18,840 Speaker 2: Leaving a review really helps the show to grow, yeah, 620 00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:20,960 Speaker 2: and just find new people, So I would really appreciate 621 00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:23,879 Speaker 2: if you feel cooled to do so, if you would 622 00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:26,800 Speaker 2: kindly do that. Make sure also that you are following 623 00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:30,920 Speaker 2: us on Instagram at that Psychology podcast. It's a great 624 00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:35,120 Speaker 2: way to kind of see what we're up to, see updates, 625 00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:38,719 Speaker 2: get summaries of these episodes, and to ask questions or 626 00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:42,799 Speaker 2: suggest episodes you may want to hear. So until next time, 627 00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:46,360 Speaker 2: be safe behind, be gentle to yourself, especially if you 628 00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:49,640 Speaker 2: are in your rock bottom moment right now. We will 629 00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:50,879 Speaker 2: talk very very soon.