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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greace. What woman would turn down

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Speaker 1: breakfast in bed? I wouldn't.

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Speaker 2: I don't believe that's ever happened, but I do know this,

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't turn it down.

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Speaker 1: I would be thrilled.

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Speaker 2: But how about the possibility that your breakfast in bed

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Speaker 2: maybe your last meal?

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Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for being with us here at Crime Stories

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Speaker 2: and on Serious XM one eleven. Think about it, your

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Speaker 2: husband bringing a breakfast in bed. How were you supposed

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Speaker 2: to know that your food and drink has been poisoned?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's where we're going. First of all, take a

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Speaker 1: listen to our friends a crime online.

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Speaker 3: Katherine Herring, a Shreveport, Louisiana native, meets her future husband

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Speaker 3: through mutual friends in his law school class. She attends

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Speaker 3: college in Texas. Katherine and Mason Herring Mary and move

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Speaker 3: into a quiet Houston neighborhood and have two children. As

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Speaker 3: their family grows, Katherine Herring steps down from her position

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Speaker 3: as an executive with a nonprofit to be at home

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Speaker 3: with the children. Mason Herring establishes a successful law firm.

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Speaker 3: Katherine Herring is an artist. A lifelong painter. She launches

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Speaker 3: a small business selling hand painted stationery, cards and gift tags.

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Speaker 2: Again, thank you for being with us. I'm Nancy Grace

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Speaker 2: and this is Crime Stories. Thanks for being with us

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Speaker 2: on Crime Stories and on series six sem one to eleven.

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Speaker 2: Hold on to Cole Parton joining me Crime online dot

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Speaker 2: com investigator reporter.

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Speaker 1: This guy is a lawyer.

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Speaker 4: That's right. He's a successful lawyer. He's established a firm

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Speaker 4: there in the Houston area and was doing quite well.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so I guess he's heard of the criminal code.

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Speaker 1: You can't really get through law school.

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Speaker 2: Irv Miller, high profile lawyer joining us from the Miller firm.

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Speaker 2: Also advisor to The Good Wife and The Good Fight

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Speaker 2: at CBS.

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Speaker 1: Erv Miller. I guess he did have to take criminal law.

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Speaker 1: You got to take that to get through law school, right, Well,

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Speaker 1: I'd like.

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Speaker 5: To know what grade of God in the subject because

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Speaker 5: he didn't work out too well firm in the end,

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Speaker 5: did it?

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Speaker 1: I mean? Really?

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Speaker 2: You?

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Speaker 1: And there's a whole nother psychological aspect.

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Speaker 2: Doctor Bethany Marshall, high profile psychoanalyst, joining us out of

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Speaker 2: the LA jurisdiction at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany.

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Speaker 2: Really the irony of bringing your wife breakfast in bed,

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Speaker 2: which seems loving.

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Speaker 1: I wonder if he laid a rose on the ben trade.

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Speaker 2: But it's spiked with poison. The Okay, look, I'm just

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Speaker 2: a lawyer, you're a shrink.

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Speaker 1: But that's got to mean something.

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Speaker 6: You know, Nancy. It brings the idea of domestic homicide

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Speaker 6: and domestic abuse to a whole new level. You know,

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Speaker 6: it's the same old psychology as domestic violence. It's just

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Speaker 6: a new means, a new method, a new level of

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Speaker 6: evil cleverness. But I think a lot of times abusers

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Speaker 6: do something called love bombing, you know, that's made its

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Speaker 6: way into our our vernacular, acting super sweet, acting loving,

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Speaker 6: acting like they're the only person in the world who

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Speaker 6: can just be the holder of goodness and light for

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Speaker 6: that person.

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Speaker 1: So why is it love bomb?

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Speaker 2: Isn't that quite the dichotomy love bomb and bomb?

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Speaker 6: M Sometimes love and hate go hand in hand, opposite

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Speaker 6: side of the same coins. Nancy.

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Speaker 2: You know, I'm trying to figure this out, but you

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Speaker 2: mentioned domestic violence. Joining me right now is renowned expert

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Speaker 2: and domestic violence Julie Owen's domestic violence expert and consultant

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Speaker 2: and Julie Owen's consulting. You can find her at domestic

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Speaker 2: Violence expert dot org. Julie, I've never thought but it

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Speaker 2: is domestic abuse. But I think of pummeling someone with

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Speaker 2: your hands or kicking them, I think of that as

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Speaker 2: domestic abuse. But in this case, just the mind game

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Speaker 2: of bringing your wife breakfast in bed, love bombing her,

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Speaker 2: as doctor Bethany has pointed out, and all the while

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Speaker 2: you're poisoning her.

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Speaker 7: Absolutely, your dreammates, how common actually it is for abusers

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Speaker 7: to do such things, you know, domestic violence or into

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Speaker 7: their partner abuse. It's a pattern of abuses behavior that's

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Speaker 7: it's to gain control, and coercive control is kind of

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Speaker 7: the group that falls under. And I see what we

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Speaker 7: call reproductive coersion, drug facilitated domestic violence, and what doctor

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Speaker 7: Benthany referred to as love bombing, I call manipulative kindness.

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Speaker 7: Actually for the reason that you said, I mean, most

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Speaker 7: people don't use that time, but it's not love.

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Speaker 1: Well, I'm going to.

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Speaker 2: Write that down, Chiley, manipulative kindness.

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Speaker 1: What is that?

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Speaker 7: Well, it's a colleage tactic that abusers use that you know,

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Speaker 7: makes it seem like uh oh, it's it's for the

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Speaker 7: victim or for the partner. Oh, you don't need to work,

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Speaker 7: you stay home and you take care of the babies,

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Speaker 7: and I'll take care of everything else. You know. It's

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Speaker 7: way to manipulate and control. And in this case, of course,

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Speaker 7: it was you need to hide rate, you know, bringing

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Speaker 7: her drinks. It seems nice that it's totally self serving, right,

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Speaker 7: he had his reasons for doing this, and it had

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Speaker 7: nothing to do with kindness or love. Clearly, as doctor

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Speaker 7: Bethany said.

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Speaker 2: I'm just thinking through what you're saying about manipulative.

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Speaker 1: Kindness. Manipulative kindness. Okay, So where.

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Speaker 6: Nancy, what about saying to a woman, you know, you

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Speaker 6: don't have to worry about the money, I'll pay for everything,

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Speaker 6: and you don't have to worry about it at all.

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Speaker 6: And at the same time, the guy is dashing it away,

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Speaker 6: putting in another bank account, tracking everything she spends, in

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Speaker 6: the form of control. But it looks like kindness on

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Speaker 6: the surface, but underneath it that it is a form

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Speaker 6: of manipulation and control, which is at the heart of

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Speaker 6: domestic abuse.

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Speaker 1: So where does the story go from here?

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Speaker 2: We've left the victim in this case sitting in bed

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Speaker 2: I imagine her in a frilly house coat and her hair, perfect,

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Speaker 2: in her makeup and all that, But that sounds more

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Speaker 2: like a movie from the fifties or the sixties. That's

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Speaker 2: not at all the way this thing plays out. Take

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Speaker 2: a listen to Sidney Sumner crime online.

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Speaker 8: Catherine Herring is pregnant with her third child when she

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Speaker 8: catches her husband lying about where he's been and texting

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Speaker 8: a former female colleague. After a confrontation, Mason Herring moves out,

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Speaker 8: telling his wife he wants to separate so he can

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Speaker 8: work on himself. The couple tried marriage counseling. Mason Herring

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Speaker 8: tells his wife he wants a divorce, but says he

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Speaker 8: would look like a jerk divorcing her while she is pregnant.

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Speaker 8: Catherine Herring still has hope for the marriage and believes

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Speaker 8: they can work it out. The Herrings follow their therapist's

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Speaker 8: advice and go on vacation together. Mason Herring seems to

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Speaker 8: have had a change in heart from the divorce and

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Speaker 8: brings his wife breakfast in bed.

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Speaker 1: Breakfast in bed on vacation. Okay, that's just the cherry

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Speaker 1: on top of the icing.

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Speaker 2: Okay, wait a minute, let me absorb what I've just

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Speaker 2: heard from crimeonline dot Com Sidney Sumner. She's pregnant with

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Speaker 2: the third child, but she catches him texting a female colleague. Now,

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Speaker 2: so what if you text a female colleague? But I've

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Speaker 2: got a funny feeling to call parton that those texts

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Speaker 2: were not work related.

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Speaker 4: That's true, they were inappropriate.

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Speaker 1: What were they talking about? Sex?

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Speaker 4: They were talking about having a relationship together.

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Speaker 2: Wait, a love relationship or a sex relationship, A.

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Speaker 4: Lover relationship, a sex relationship. And this is someone that

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Speaker 4: she had confronted him about before, and he had promised

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Speaker 4: so that he had let her go from her position

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Speaker 4: and was no longer communicating with her, and that he

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Speaker 4: was doing better and would not cheat again.

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Speaker 1: By bye bye.

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Speaker 2: Wait wait wait, wait wait? Did he admit to cheating

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Speaker 2: or admit to texting?

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Speaker 4: He admitted to inappropriate texting?

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Speaker 2: Okay, hold on just a moment, Doctor Bethany Marshall, is

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Speaker 2: that cheating when you catch your husband or boyfriend texting

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Speaker 2: and sending email?

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Speaker 1: Okay? Everybody in the studio is saying yes and.

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Speaker 2: Worse Okay, gesticulations are not necessary, Jamie and Jackie, Okay,

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Speaker 2: but that said, yeah, I would feel totally betrayed if

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Speaker 2: I've found out David was texting somebody about you know,

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Speaker 2: getting together, whether they ever do it or not, and

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Speaker 2: sharing his private life with somebody, you know, making me

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Speaker 2: so mad I want to set all his clothes on

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Speaker 2: fire right now.

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Speaker 1: But that said, is that cheating, doctor Bethany.

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Speaker 6: That is absolutely cheating, And a woman in this position

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Speaker 6: should ask herself if she walked in on that other

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Speaker 6: person having lunch with that woman and she felt uncomfortable,

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Speaker 6: that would mean it's cheating. You have to ask yourself

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Speaker 6: these kinds of questions. There's a thousand different reasons why

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Speaker 6: people cheat, and a thousand different forms of cheating, and

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Speaker 6: this is definitely cheating, you.

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Speaker 1: Know, doctor Bethany.

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Speaker 2: A very dear friend of mine had a long term

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Speaker 2: love that would go online and communicate with I'm gonna

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Speaker 2: say to say, Russian male order wives m H. And

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Speaker 2: I went bright up with him and she said, but

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Speaker 2: he's not going to ever do.

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Speaker 7: It all, please cares if that's for his.

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Speaker 1: Head at why do you want him?

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Speaker 6: I once kind of patient whose husband went to strip clubs,

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Speaker 6: and when I said to her you should divorce him,

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Speaker 6: she said, well, they're not allowed to touch the girls.

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Speaker 6: So it's not really cheating. It is cheating having Russian

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Speaker 6: mail order girls online. That's cheating. Hernography can be cheating.

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Speaker 2: So I'm going to rely on the employees at the

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Speaker 2: strip club to keep my husband from grabbing a naked stripper. Okay,

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Speaker 2: right there, that relationship is over and that lady needs

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Speaker 2: to find someone who will appreciate her.

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Speaker 1: That said, let me get back to the poisoning.

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Speaker 2: Okay, three children, she's pregnant for the third time.

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Speaker 1: Here he is what a pos.

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Speaker 2: Texting his girlfriend who he worked with. They have a confrontation,

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Speaker 2: and he moves out. Has anybody else heard I need

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Speaker 2: time to work on myself because I need time to

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Speaker 2: work on myself. Really, I mean, I can't tell you

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Speaker 2: what I would do to David if he said I

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Speaker 2: need to move out and be on my own so

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Speaker 2: I can work on myself. I may just say, you

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Speaker 2: know what, feed the guineas, the cat, the dog, my

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Speaker 2: mother and the twins clean the house to do the laundry,

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Speaker 2: and you're free. Go run, go, and if you come back,

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Speaker 2: don't show up cod because it's not happening. Work on myself,

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Speaker 2: my rear end. Doctor Bethany I mean, what more do

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Speaker 2: you need. Do you need a helicopter flying by with

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Speaker 2: a sign that says break up?

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Speaker 1: Now work on myself. He can work on himself with

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Speaker 1: her exactly.

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Speaker 6: Took the words right out of my mouth. The best

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Speaker 6: way to work on yourself is to have a good

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Speaker 6: relationship with the people you love and who love you.

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Speaker 4: That's it.

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Speaker 6: That's what therapy is for. It's not just to help

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Speaker 6: people work on themselves. It's to help them have love

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Speaker 6: relationships with their are kind and loving and pathic, and

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Speaker 6: they give to other people.

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Speaker 9: It's not about them.

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: Guys, we're talking about this lady, this wife, this pregnant

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Speaker 2: for the third time, mom getting poisoned. So let me

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Speaker 2: get the car back in the middle of the road

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Speaker 2: and out of the weeds where I steer it. Take

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Speaker 2: a listen to Rachel Bania, investigative reporter, Crime Stories.

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Speaker 10: Mason Herring seems to be getting excited about their third child.

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Speaker 10: He encourages his wife to drink more fluids because it's

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Speaker 10: better for the baby. Along with breakfast in bed, Mason

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Speaker 10: Herring brings Catherine a glass of water with food, insisting

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Speaker 10: she drink it all while he watches the water is cloudy,

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Speaker 10: but the dutiful husband promises it's just old pipes or

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Speaker 10: slightly dirty glasses. Catherine Herring drinks all the water. About

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Speaker 10: thirty minutes after Mason Herring leaves for work, Catherine becomes sick,

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Speaker 10: painful stomach cramps, diarrhea, and after her third trip to

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Speaker 10: the bathroom, realizes she's bleeding heavily. Hearing goes to the

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Speaker 10: emergency room, where even after she's treated and sent home,

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Speaker 10: she is still bleeding. Herring asks her mother to come

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Speaker 10: stay with her as she is having pregnancy complications.

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Speaker 1: Okay, let me understand Nicole Parton. She starts bleeding.

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Speaker 2: After he encourages her to drink more fluids.

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Speaker 4: That's right. So about thirty minutes after she drinks the

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Speaker 4: glass of water that he gives her, she becomes very

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Speaker 4: ill diarrhea, bleeding, the cramping, and she goes to the

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Speaker 4: emergency room.

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Speaker 1: And she's still pregnant at this juncture.

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Speaker 4: He is pregnant, and so she knows. She fears for

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Speaker 4: the life of her child. She knows something is wrong.

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Speaker 2: Let's analyze what we've just heard. They go on a

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Speaker 2: vacation together.

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Speaker 1: RV. Miller.

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Speaker 2: Why the women go missing when they're on vacation. They

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Speaker 2: end up falling off cruise ships. They end up in

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Speaker 2: the water.

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Speaker 1: Literally. I mean, I.

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Speaker 2: Can name you woman after woman after woman after woman

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Speaker 2: that vanishes and is dead on vacations.

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Speaker 5: And it turns out these guys aren't very smart, because

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Speaker 5: it turns out, you hear about it, they get caught

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Speaker 5: and end up in jail, and we can't forget. And

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Speaker 5: you talk about how the wife is the victim, but

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Speaker 5: in this particular case, the umbing child is potentially a

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Speaker 5: victim of murder. He's trying to kill the baby and

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Speaker 5: is trying to get through his actions with his wife

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Speaker 5: in order to kill the baby because he doesn't want

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Speaker 5: they have to interfere with his new relationship. And the

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Speaker 5: baby is the one who is actually the main victim

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Speaker 5: in this particular case because could have been the victim

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Speaker 5: of a murder.

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Speaker 1: And think about it.

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Speaker 2: She's so trusting that her husband hands her a glass

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Speaker 2: of dirty water and blames it on the pipes. Who

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Speaker 2: wants that, as nobody heard a bottled water anyway. She

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Speaker 2: drinks it and ends up with horrible cramps, diarrhea and

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Speaker 2: starts to bleed.

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Speaker 1: Remember she's pregnant.

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Speaker 5: To show you how smart he is, he leaves the

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Speaker 5: glass behind with the fingerprints, leaves the glass behind with

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Speaker 5: the quote unquote poison there to be collected and to

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Speaker 5: be used against him in the future. This is not

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Speaker 5: a very great guy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Can you imagine Ur Miller, He made it through law school. Okay,

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Speaker 2: take a listen to Sidney Sumner crime Online.

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Speaker 8: After getting home from the hospital, Mason Herring continues to

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Speaker 8: bring drinks to his wife, including a bottle of orange juice.

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Speaker 8: The seal on the bottle is broken and a powder

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Speaker 8: is seen in the bottom of the bottle. Catherine Herring

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Speaker 8: doesn't drink what her husband gives her, but she saves

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Speaker 8: it and takes the evidence to a private investigator.

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Speaker 1: While waiting on.

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Speaker 8: Test results from a lab, Mason Herring goes on vacation.

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Speaker 10: While he is.

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Speaker 8: Gone, the private investigator installs hidden cameras around the Herring

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Speaker 8: home and shows Catherine Herring how to collect evidence. When

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Speaker 8: Mason Herring returns from vacation, so do his special drinks

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Speaker 8: for his pregnant wife. Surveillance cameras inside their home catch

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Speaker 8: Herring having a powdered substance from a bag in his

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Speaker 8: pocket into a drink that he gives his wife.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Nicole Parton joining US Crime online dot com investigative reporter, Nicole,

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Speaker 2: I don't quite understand what hold on.

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Speaker 1: Let me go to doctor Lyle D.

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Speaker 2: Braguon joining US toxicology expert president CEO of Wrapped Her

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Speaker 2: Farm and Talks, and you can find him at Talks

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Speaker 2: truthblog dot com.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Bragoon, thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 2: I'm really surprised that the hospital released her without identifying

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Speaker 2: what had happened.

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Speaker 11: Yeah, it's not uncommon that they do that because they

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Speaker 11: probably don't know that she's been poisoned at this point.

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Speaker 11: They really have no idea, and it's it's not atypical

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Speaker 11: to have a woman come in with the serious pregnancy

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Speaker 11: complications like she has. She's currently in at that point,

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Speaker 11: she's in her first trimester, so it's not uncommon.

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Speaker 5: You know.

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Speaker 11: The thing that I would want to know is did

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Speaker 11: they actually check to make sure that the you know,

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Speaker 11: there was a heartbeat, you know, if it was present before.

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Speaker 11: I'm not exactly sure how long far along she was,

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Speaker 11: but you know, just to make sure that the you know,

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Speaker 11: the unborn embryo is okay.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'm confused when they want to take blood tests

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Speaker 2: and figure out if I mean, let's do a toxicology

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Speaker 2: lab work.

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Speaker 11: They could and it's it's it's one of those things

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Speaker 11: where it's again, the likelihood of someone actually coming into

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Speaker 11: the emergency room, into the emergency department with a poisoning

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Speaker 11: is pretty low, but it's it's actually not uncommon for

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Speaker 11: women to come in with with bleeding and cramps at

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Speaker 11: this stage. Certainly, to me, it seems a little fishing.

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Speaker 11: You know, as a toxicologist, I probably would have ordered tests,

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Speaker 11: but you know, not knowing exactly what it is, it's

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Speaker 11: hard to test for anything at this point.

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Speaker 2: Guys, we're trying to figure out exactly what happened when

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Speaker 2: the victim in this case was rushed to the hospital

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Speaker 2: with cramps and bleeding. But she she comes back home.

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Speaker 2: Tell me about her coming back home to call parton.

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Speaker 4: She came back home and she's still afraid to be

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Speaker 4: alone because she's fearing that she's losing her child. She

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Speaker 4: calls her mom and asks her mom to come over

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Speaker 4: and stay with her, because remember, her husband isn't living

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Speaker 4: in the home. They're separated. Her mother comes over, she

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Speaker 4: tells her that she's having some complications with the pregnancy.

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Speaker 4: She doesn't tell her mother that she fears her husband

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Speaker 4: is trying to poison her, but her mom stays with

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Speaker 4: her because she continues to have this abdominal pain and

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Speaker 4: this bleeding throughout the night.

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Speaker 2: I'm curious about that too, Julie Owens, joining US domestic

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Speaker 2: violence expert at Domestic violenceexpert dot org. Isn't it true, Julie,

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Speaker 2: that is very common for domestic violence abuse victims of

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Speaker 2: women not to want to tell their family what's happening.

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Speaker 7: Oh, absolutely, you're sure, right, Nancy. And a lot of

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Speaker 7: times it's because they've tried before to talk about it

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Speaker 7: other kinds of abuse and they haven't been believed, or

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Speaker 7: people think they're paranoid, or they go, hey, he's such

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Speaker 7: a great provider.

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Speaker 6: You know.

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Speaker 7: Remember she could quit her job and so, you know,

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Speaker 7: leaving him, I don't. I know, she has her own business,

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Speaker 7: but it would be very difficult with two children and

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Speaker 7: they be on the way, presumably, And so there are

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Speaker 7: a lot of reasons why. It's also sometimes it could

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Speaker 7: be denial, but you know, who knows why victims don't

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Speaker 7: tell what's going on or don't leave but many times

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Speaker 7: it's because you know, they really they're religious. They don't

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Speaker 7: believe in divorce.

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Speaker 4: They really.

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Speaker 7: Want to preserve that marriage. They believe that it's better

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Speaker 7: for the children. Maybe they came from a broken home

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Speaker 7: or something like that. But often I had found that women,

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Speaker 7: especially those who are very religious and are told, you know,

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Speaker 7: God hates the worce and things like that, they really

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Speaker 7: get that advice from people that they do confide him,

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Speaker 7: like maybe pastors, and maybe they go to a castor

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Speaker 7: somebody not like doctor Bethany who understands domestic violence.

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Speaker 2: Well, I've got another red flag to throw Dodger Bethany,

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Speaker 2: following up on Julia Owen's is saying, so he says

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Speaker 2: he has to be alone to work on himself, but

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Speaker 2: then he goes on a vacation by himself. That's not

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Speaker 2: working on yourself. That's getting a ten and your man kinie.

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Speaker 1: I don't like it.

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Speaker 6: A vacation is definitely not working on yourself.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I know this is crazy, and I do

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Speaker 2: not harangue him about this because I want him to

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Speaker 2: feel free. But even when David isn't there for my husband,

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Speaker 2: David for supper with us at night, I really miss him.

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Speaker 2: I always set his plate there just in case he

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Speaker 2: comes and shows up, even late. So it's really hard

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Speaker 2: for me to believe in a time when she's pregnant,

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Speaker 2: he goes on a vacation.

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Speaker 6: You know, it's so true, Nancy. You know that would

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Speaker 6: that the time that a man would want to be

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Speaker 6: with his wife. But sadly, we know that homicide is

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Speaker 6: the leading injury related cause of death for pregnant women.

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Speaker 6: You know, not all men want a child, and in

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Speaker 6: this case, he probably did not want to take up

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Speaker 6: the responsibilities of fatherhood. He wants to lead another life.

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Speaker 6: I'm sure he was on a vacation with the other woman,

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Speaker 6: and we can always already see the signs of him

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Speaker 6: having a double life. But I think she is a victim.

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Speaker 6: The fact that she set up cameras in the house

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Speaker 6: means she's a pretty brave woman and she's not your

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Speaker 6: typical victim, because she swung into action when she realized

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Speaker 6: something was amiss.

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Speaker 2: So do I understand cole Parton that the victim in

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Speaker 2: this case hires a private investigator.

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Speaker 4: She does, That's correct. She wants to find out exactly

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Speaker 4: what's going on, and she does hire this private investigator

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Speaker 4: who gives her great advice and helps her install these

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Speaker 4: cameras so that she can now see what's happening. When

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Speaker 4: he comes over, he's bringing her her favorite drink from

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Speaker 4: Sonic Orange Juice water, her favorite biscuits, and now she's

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Speaker 4: able to watch on the video and see exactly what's happening.

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Speaker 2: Joining me right now, Special guest Michael Yvanez, former Houston

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Speaker 2: Police homicide detective, licensed private investigator, and you can find

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Speaker 2: him at why the letter, why to investigations dot com. Michael,

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Speaker 2: thank you for being with us. You know I've tried

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Speaker 2: a lot of homicide. I'm sure you have investigated a

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Speaker 2: lot of homicides. Death by poison is actually fairly rare.

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Speaker 12: It is the answer. In my career, I've touched on

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Speaker 12: thousands of domestic violence cases that came through our homicide

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Speaker 12: division when I was working for the Houston Police Department,

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Speaker 12: and poisoning is on the lower end of the investigative scale. However,

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Speaker 12: well makes this case not of notoriety wise is because

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Speaker 12: she jumped into action, like your guest said, at her

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Speaker 12: first suspicion and actually did much of her investigating before

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Speaker 12: she even went to the police.

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Speaker 5: Department.

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Speaker 12: She was smart enough to hire a private investigator right

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Speaker 12: up that to guide her through investigation, and he told

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Speaker 12: her exactly, you know what to do as far as

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Speaker 12: the camera is.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's interesting what you're saying, Michael. It's Michael

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Speaker 2: Ivanniez joining me. Former homicide detective, now licensed private investigator.

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Speaker 2: I remember trying a really difficult arson case, and it

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Speaker 2: was an arson murder, of course, and I found out

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Speaker 2: I happened to find out that there was a parallel

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Speaker 2: investigation going on with the insurance company and they had

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Speaker 2: their own investigator. I mean, this guy burned out a

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Speaker 2: mansion in order to kill his wife. When I found

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Speaker 2: out there was an investigator for the insurance company, I

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Speaker 2: got him pronto. We went through the file together. We

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Speaker 2: went to the scene together with my regular investigator, Ernest.

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Speaker 1: And I learned so much more.

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Speaker 2: I was thrilled and actually called him as a witness

443
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:18,840
Speaker 2: in the murder prosecution. But a lot of cops and

444
00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:24,120
Speaker 2: prosecutors they don't want a PI private investigator involved, and oh,

445
00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:25,080
Speaker 2: I don't get it.

446
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:27,680
Speaker 12: Well, whether they wanted it or not, it was it

447
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:30,239
Speaker 12: was good in her in her case because she was

448
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:33,720
Speaker 12: she compiled a lot of the evidence and practically gave

449
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:36,560
Speaker 12: it to the police department with a bow tie wrapped.

450
00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 2: Around exactly tied with the boat and put on top

451
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:39,800
Speaker 2: of a Christmas tree.

452
00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:43,480
Speaker 12: They could not ignore that evidence because it was video,

453
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:47,360
Speaker 12: and it was timely, and it was it was professionally

454
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:52,200
Speaker 12: obtained and legally obtained. And you know, the police department

455
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:56,000
Speaker 12: can go inside your house and investigate a poisoning case

456
00:24:56,080 --> 00:25:00,280
Speaker 12: like that without you know, exposing themselves. So the after

457
00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:04,120
Speaker 12: she did must of her own investigating with the guidance

458
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:06,720
Speaker 12: of the private investigator. I thought that was absolutely remarkable.

459
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:10,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, this woman, though Dr Bethany, was not just protecting

460
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:14,800
Speaker 2: herself but her child, right, So that may have given

461
00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:18,639
Speaker 2: her the strength to follow three because if her suspicions

462
00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:22,000
Speaker 2: were correct, her husband's trying to not only poison her

463
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:23,280
Speaker 2: but their unborn baby.

464
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:27,840
Speaker 6: You don't, Nancy, the maternal instinct trumped the desire to

465
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:30,439
Speaker 6: protect him. You know, we know about domestic abuse, as

466
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:33,280
Speaker 6: we've been talking about it, that women are often like

467
00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:35,480
Speaker 6: the frog in the pot of boiling water. You know,

468
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:40,240
Speaker 6: the abuse starts slowly, one interaction at a time, escalates

469
00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:43,200
Speaker 6: and by the time the woman realizes if she ever

470
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:46,600
Speaker 6: does that she's being abused. She's so attached to the

471
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:49,800
Speaker 6: man that she can't extricate herself. But in this case,

472
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:54,439
Speaker 6: this victim was in a state of shock when she

473
00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:57,280
Speaker 6: found this out. You never found something out about somebody

474
00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:00,159
Speaker 6: that they betrayed you in your in total shock. You

475
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:03,920
Speaker 6: start to investigate, you start to pull on every little thread. Well,

476
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:08,040
Speaker 6: she did that. She was a mama bear, protecting herself,

477
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 6: her unborn child and her two other children. Who knows

478
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:12,920
Speaker 6: how he was treating them.

479
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:14,760
Speaker 1: I like the fact that she IRV.

480
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 2: Miller, high profile criminal defense attorney with the Miller Firm,

481
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 2: that she had cameras installed.

482
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:25,639
Speaker 1: I love video evidence, and it was reminding me OFRV.

483
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:25,960
Speaker 6: Miller.

484
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,240
Speaker 2: A few of you on the panel today have covered

485
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:29,399
Speaker 2: this case with me.

486
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:32,480
Speaker 1: A doctor, doctor.

487
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:39,840
Speaker 2: You you actually is accused of poisoning her husband, Jack Chin,

488
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:44,440
Speaker 2: with draino. He got suspicious because he had all these

489
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 2: horrible stomach lacerations and stomach problems. She put Erv Miller

490
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:54,280
Speaker 2: a camera to get a wide shot of the kitchen,

491
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 2: and then he put a camera in the kitchen cabinet.

492
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:05,639
Speaker 2: You see the purp, the alleged purp walking over to

493
00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 2: the kitchen cabinet, opening it up.

494
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:09,280
Speaker 1: Then you see a hand.

495
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:13,240
Speaker 2: Reach in and take out of all things, draino and

496
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:17,399
Speaker 2: it's written DRAINO across the top of the can and

497
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:21,200
Speaker 2: pouring it in his drink. He had some concoction he

498
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 2: drank every morning, probably a health drink, and she was

499
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:30,000
Speaker 2: poisoning him. This woman here had the wherewithal to install cameras.

500
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:33,560
Speaker 1: God bless her, IRV. I know you defense attorneys say that,

501
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:35,080
Speaker 1: but I think it was a great move.

502
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:38,280
Speaker 5: Well, I'm a former prosecutor as well as you well

503
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:41,639
Speaker 5: know that all the prosecutors want what this knows a

504
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:44,240
Speaker 5: magic word, and that magic word is corroboration. You don't

505
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:46,320
Speaker 5: want to just have to rely on the testimony of

506
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:50,400
Speaker 5: a witness of credibility issues. You want cameras, you want

507
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:55,640
Speaker 5: a handwrig yannello, you want confessions. You want corroboration. And

508
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 5: that's what this lady gave to the Uston Police Department

509
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:00,720
Speaker 5: when she walked in that front or the police station.

510
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:03,160
Speaker 1: Because you're the best of this, EARV.

511
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:03,560
Speaker 12: Miller.

512
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:08,880
Speaker 1: Can you imagine this lady, the victim on cross examination,

513
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:11,919
Speaker 1: the defense would get a hold of her and not

514
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:13,800
Speaker 1: let go until tis she was.

515
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:18,440
Speaker 2: Torn to shreds. Because she'd be testifying against her husband,

516
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:22,440
Speaker 2: the lawyer, the one with the money, who was having

517
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:26,560
Speaker 2: an affair with a woman she hated, so they could

518
00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:30,040
Speaker 2: easily claim it was all a big lie, or even

519
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 2: that she poisoned herself if she didn't have that video

520
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:36,120
Speaker 2: evidence of of Miller.

521
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:39,480
Speaker 5: And you go back to the bottom line, he was

522
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:44,320
Speaker 5: trying to kill an unborn child. Man, it doesn't get

523
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:45,360
Speaker 5: much worse than that.

524
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:46,520
Speaker 1: No, it does not.

525
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:51,000
Speaker 3: Guys what happens next, listen, Mason Herring is captured on

526
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 3: surveillance camera taking trash from his truck and placing the

527
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:58,680
Speaker 3: trash on the curb. Catherine Herring retrieves the trash and

528
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:02,920
Speaker 3: finds a blister pack of cyrix, a generic version of mysoprostal,

529
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:07,040
Speaker 3: the drug most commonly used to induce an abortion. Katherine

530
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 3: Herring meets with Houston police. Charges are filed, but a

531
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:13,560
Speaker 3: change in the District Attorney's office slows down the case.

532
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 3: Katherine Herring's daughter is born ten weeks premature and spends

533
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:22,520
Speaker 3: seven weeks in the neonatal intensive care unit. At one

534
00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:25,720
Speaker 3: year old, the little girl attends therapy eight times per

535
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:27,160
Speaker 3: week for special needs.

536
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 1: Wow, boy, I'm just a JD. I need an EMD.

537
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:48,120
Speaker 2: Pronto Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Doctor Lyle D. Bragoon

538
00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 2: joining me toxicology expert at toxictruthblog dot com.

539
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 1: Doctor Bragoon, again, thank you for being with us. What

540
00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 1: did she just say? Number one?

541
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:01,360
Speaker 2: The thing that jumps out at me the most is

542
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 2: the little baby is born very prematurely. Gee, I wonder

543
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 2: why and had to spend seven weeks in the neonatal

544
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:10,520
Speaker 2: intensive care unit.

545
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:13,240
Speaker 1: But what is this? This drug?

546
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:16,480
Speaker 2: She finds out in the trash. She watches her husband

547
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:19,600
Speaker 2: throw out some trash and finds a blister pack of

548
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:24,239
Speaker 2: cyrus See why are you X? A generic version of

549
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 2: miss a prostaal.

550
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 1: What's that?

551
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 11: Yeah, so mister prostyl or missus prestall, it's it's a

552
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 11: what we call a prostaglandin analog. What that means is,

553
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 11: you know, it's typically for most adults who might have

554
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:42,520
Speaker 11: ulcers from taking like ibuprofen or you know, a leave

555
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:45,480
Speaker 11: or something like that. Uh, they would take this to

556
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 11: help prevent you know, stomach ulcus from exacerbating. But it's

557
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:52,280
Speaker 11: also the second drug in the two drug cocktail for

558
00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:55,720
Speaker 11: chemical abortion. The first drug is are you forty six

559
00:30:56,000 --> 00:31:00,200
Speaker 11: or miss eprostone, and the second one is microcetosol. And

560
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:03,840
Speaker 11: what it does is it actually causes uterine contractions, So

561
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:07,920
Speaker 11: it stimulates the uterine muscles to push and contract and

562
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:11,840
Speaker 11: that's what actually causes the expulsion of the uh, you know,

563
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:16,120
Speaker 11: the fetus and all the other materials. H it's extremely painful.

564
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:19,840
Speaker 11: You're going to get all kinds of bleeding and it's

565
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:23,240
Speaker 11: it's it's horrible. And anyone who's ever had a chemical

566
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:26,560
Speaker 11: abortion can tell you it is just excruciating. This the pain.

567
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:34,200
Speaker 2: So he we believe is poisoning her with ods of

568
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:35,560
Speaker 2: the abortion pill.

569
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:40,800
Speaker 1: Is is that what he essentially would be doing, Doctor Burgoon.

570
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:43,440
Speaker 11: That that is exactly that is exactly what he's trying

571
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:45,040
Speaker 11: to do, and that is exactly how he's doing it.

572
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 1: Could that kill an adult female?

573
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 11: Unlikely unless the bleeding doesn't get under control.

574
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:56,720
Speaker 2: So she could bleed out, but it would definitely kill

575
00:31:56,760 --> 00:31:57,240
Speaker 2: the baby.

576
00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:02,320
Speaker 11: Uh yeah, I if it were successful, it would potentially

577
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:04,480
Speaker 11: kill the baby. Absolutely.

578
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:07,400
Speaker 2: These two have been married over ten years. This is

579
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:13,080
Speaker 2: her third child with her husband. She becomes alarmed after

580
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:16,320
Speaker 2: the breakfast in bed he gave her on VAK left

581
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:22,400
Speaker 2: her bleeding, then she spends weeks collecting evidence and discovers

582
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:27,400
Speaker 2: that he is crushing up abortion pills and putting in

583
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 2: her food. Nicole Parton, just imagine all the pain that

584
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:39,160
Speaker 2: he induced on his wife and then the baby. The

585
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:45,440
Speaker 2: baby girl is born very prematurely and nearly dies in Nick,

586
00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:46,960
Speaker 2: you right, And to.

587
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:50,080
Speaker 4: Think that he didn't just try to kill the baby once.

588
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 4: He did this seven times, seven different times he put

589
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:59,120
Speaker 4: the poison in her drinks. This baby was born ten

590
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:03,239
Speaker 4: weeks early. Still she has special needs, she's on a

591
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:08,400
Speaker 4: feeding tube, she's in speech therapy, physical therapy, occupational therapy,

592
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:11,480
Speaker 4: and on a personal note, as a mom of a

593
00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:15,719
Speaker 4: special needs son, I know what that is like. I

594
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:19,600
Speaker 4: can't imagine the pain this mother suffered from the drug.

595
00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 4: But I can't imagine the pain or I can imagine

596
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:26,520
Speaker 4: the pain this mother suffers with her special needs daughters.

597
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:31,400
Speaker 4: And that because the little baby's daddy tried to kill her.

598
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:35,320
Speaker 2: Let me go to our medical doctor joining us, Doctor Burgoon,

599
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:41,040
Speaker 2: Doctor Bragoon, How would the abortion pill cause the little

600
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:44,000
Speaker 2: girl all of these well.

601
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:47,520
Speaker 1: A lifetime, a lifetime of disability.

602
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:52,440
Speaker 11: Yeah, the science is starting to stack up that if

603
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:55,520
Speaker 11: you have such a traumatic event, you know where you

604
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:59,000
Speaker 11: basically have this huge loss of blood in the first trimester.

605
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:04,240
Speaker 11: We tend to see an increase association with preterm birth

606
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:06,680
Speaker 11: and with pre term birth, which we know happened in

607
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:11,840
Speaker 11: this case. Unfortunately, Uh, the the body, the baby's body

608
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:14,839
Speaker 11: just isn't as well developed as it should be and

609
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:17,640
Speaker 11: it doesn't have the time that needs to fully develop,

610
00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:21,239
Speaker 11: and so we do see occasionally, you know, increases in

611
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:24,440
Speaker 11: brain damage, especially if there was you know, a lot

612
00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:26,919
Speaker 11: you know, this massive loss of blood in the first

613
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:30,160
Speaker 11: trimester that could affect you know, the developing brain.

614
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:31,120
Speaker 5: Uh.

615
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:33,799
Speaker 11: And then you know, just just over time being in

616
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:36,480
Speaker 11: the nick you it's not a great place for children

617
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:39,640
Speaker 11: to be, you know, we don't want them born that early.

618
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:43,160
Speaker 11: So it's it's amazing that that she's even alive. You know,

619
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 11: let's just start there. It's amazing she's alive. It's amazing

620
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:48,640
Speaker 11: that she got out of the nick you and unfortunately

621
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:49,800
Speaker 11: this kind of happens.

622
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:53,799
Speaker 1: Is everybody on the panel sitting down? Yes? Is everyone

623
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:54,800
Speaker 1: sitting down?

624
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:59,840
Speaker 2: IRV Miller, doctor Messidy Marshall sitting down, yep. Michael Ivanna,

625
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:03,759
Speaker 2: doctor Bragoon, Julie Owens, Nicole Parton, You're sitting down.

626
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:07,759
Speaker 1: Yes, may you may need to lay down. You may

627
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:12,960
Speaker 1: need to lay down for this. He got sentenced to.

628
00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:20,960
Speaker 2: Just one hundred and eighty days behind bars. His daughter

629
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:30,759
Speaker 2: is disabled forever for life. She's struggling. The marriages could

630
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:34,680
Speaker 2: put he tried to kill the baby.

631
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:40,319
Speaker 1: And this isn't about his abortion legal or illegal. You

632
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:40,600
Speaker 1: know what.

633
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 2: I let them fight about that in the legislature. I'm

634
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:50,239
Speaker 2: talking about aggravated assault on the mother and trying to

635
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:54,319
Speaker 2: kill the baby who was now left with a lifetime

636
00:35:54,920 --> 00:36:00,000
Speaker 2: of disability, and the mother standing by watching her child.

637
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:02,360
Speaker 1: I'll suffer for life.

638
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:06,800
Speaker 2: And he gets one hundred and eighty days behind bars.

639
00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:09,840
Speaker 2: What jackass gave him that sentence, Nicole Parton.

640
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:12,799
Speaker 4: He took a plea deal, Nancy. He pleaded guilty to

641
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:15,880
Speaker 4: a single count of injury to a child under fifteen.

642
00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:19,200
Speaker 1: Judge Andrea Bill, would that be the judge?

643
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:20,480
Speaker 4: Yes, that's correct.

644
00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:22,480
Speaker 1: Okay, Judge Andrea Bill.

645
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:25,960
Speaker 2: Maybe you should go over and take a night shift

646
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:28,600
Speaker 2: and let this mom get a good night's rest when

647
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:30,520
Speaker 2: her child is suffering from disability.

648
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:32,680
Speaker 1: Again, the goal partner, what are the disabilities?

649
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:36,680
Speaker 4: She's gone feeding too? She is in speech therapy, physical therapy,

650
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:41,560
Speaker 4: occupational therapy and she's diagnosed as special needs and will

651
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:43,000
Speaker 4: be throughout her life.

652
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:48,920
Speaker 1: Thanks Judge Andrea Bill. BEA's and brother e A. L.

653
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:52,760
Speaker 2: L At eight three two nine two seven three nine

654
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:57,399
Speaker 2: two five repeat eight three two nine two seven three

655
00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:01,319
Speaker 2: nine two five. What's the next election, Judge Andrea Bill.

656
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:04,759
Speaker 2: But hey, it's not just the judge's fault. She could

657
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:08,760
Speaker 2: have rejected the plea deal, but she didn't. Harris County

658
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:16,080
Speaker 2: District Attorney Kim Ogg Ogg seven one three, two seven

659
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:17,520
Speaker 2: four fifty.

660
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:19,600
Speaker 1: Eight hundred rv.

661
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:24,960
Speaker 2: Miller one hundred and eighty days behind bars Seriously.

662
00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:28,320
Speaker 5: Well, just to give you a little insight into different jurisdiction,

663
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:32,400
Speaker 5: I practice law in a jurisdiction where the attempted murder

664
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:35,919
Speaker 5: of an unborn child carries with it a mandatory jail

665
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:39,000
Speaker 5: term of between six and thirty years in the state penitentiary.

666
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:43,200
Speaker 5: Judge does not have discretion to go below that. Not

667
00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:45,440
Speaker 5: one hundred and eighty days, but six years on the bottom,

668
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:48,319
Speaker 5: thirty years Max. That's the better way to look at

669
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:49,319
Speaker 5: this type of case.

670
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:52,080
Speaker 2: You need to look at this guy. He looks normal.

671
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:57,000
Speaker 2: He's a practicing lawyer with a great law practice.

672
00:37:57,600 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 1: He should have.

673
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:03,239
Speaker 2: Gone to trial on multi pool felonies. I don't understand

674
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:06,960
Speaker 2: this huge miscarriage of justice. The district attorney, the prosecutor

675
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:10,200
Speaker 2: was in on it. It was a plea deal. The

676
00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:12,520
Speaker 2: defense was in on it, of course, that's their job.

677
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:14,280
Speaker 2: The judge was in on.

678
00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:15,040
Speaker 1: It, you know.

679
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:21,880
Speaker 2: To Michael Yvannyez, former Houston police officer, a homicide detective, now, PI,

680
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:25,000
Speaker 2: does it make it feel like, hey, why even bother

681
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:30,160
Speaker 2: trying to investigate cases? When a judge and a prosecutor

682
00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:32,959
Speaker 2: is going to go along with the cheap sentence, Why bother?

683
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:33,440
Speaker 4: You know?

684
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:37,520
Speaker 12: You know, in my time, we had the idea that

685
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:39,239
Speaker 12: we do our job, and you do what you do,

686
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:41,160
Speaker 12: and you take bring the case to the conclusion and

687
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:43,879
Speaker 12: the best that you can. I can say that once

688
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:48,080
Speaker 12: they're investigating. Officer got this case, he ran with it.

689
00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:51,439
Speaker 12: He did a really good job, he said, he said.

690
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:54,439
Speaker 13: He told me, in fact I spoke to him that

691
00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:59,040
Speaker 13: it was a case where he did most of the

692
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:01,799
Speaker 13: leg work was done, but he had a whole lot

693
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:05,520
Speaker 13: of other legwork to do to bring this unique charges

694
00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 13: of forcing induction to an abortion and assault of a

695
00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:10,120
Speaker 13: pregnant person.

696
00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:14,840
Speaker 12: To the courts. And they agreed with it initially, but

697
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:17,480
Speaker 12: as you said, he took a plea for injury to

698
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:18,040
Speaker 12: a child.

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00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:21,840
Speaker 1: This guy is rolling rolling in money.

700
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:25,960
Speaker 2: Mason's lawyer the founder of the Herring Law firm specializing

701
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:32,759
Speaker 2: in oil rig litigation in Houston. Long story short, this

702
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:37,560
Speaker 2: baby is going to grow up with a lifetime of disability.

703
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:40,520
Speaker 1: Thanks dad. You know what.

704
00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:44,520
Speaker 2: The judge may I let you off easy, but the

705
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:46,840
Speaker 2: devil is going to get his mits on you.

706
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:50,520
Speaker 1: Buddy. We wait as justice in false.

707
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:51,719
Speaker 2: Good Bye,