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Speaker 1: Pope Leo overrules a ban on the traditional Latin Mass

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Speaker 1: in an American parish.

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Speaker 2: Will this become a trend?

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Speaker 1: And why is a priest convicted of possessing child pornography

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Speaker 1: working in the Vatican. The Prayerful Posse will explore it all.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to this Arroyo Grande series, The Prayerful Posse.

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Speaker 2: Let's convene in the Posse.

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Speaker 1: Joining me now, Father Gerald Murray Cannon, lawyer of the

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Speaker 1: Archdiocese of New York, and Robert Royal, editor in chief

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Speaker 1: of The Catholic Thing.

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Speaker 2: I'm Raymond Arroyo.

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Speaker 1: There was a big story on the liturgy front gents

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Speaker 1: all across the world. The traditional Latin Mass is being

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Speaker 1: banned thrown from parishes following Pope Francis's crackdown.

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Speaker 2: But Pope Leo may be.

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Speaker 1: Offering the traditional mass community a lifeline. Don't forget to

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Speaker 1: subscribe to the Royal Grande Show to our channel on YouTube,

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Speaker 1: on iHeart, Apple, Spotify area, wherever you get your podcasts.

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Speaker 1: We don't want you to miss an episode of the Posse. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I want to get back to that unexpected development in

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Speaker 1: this ongoing war on the traditional Latin Mass. Pope Leo

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Speaker 1: the fourteenth himself has approved an exemption to the ban

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Speaker 1: on the ancient right for one parish in the Diocese

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Speaker 1: of San Angelo, Texas. Saint Margaret of Scotland Parish applied

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Speaker 1: for an exemption from Pope Francis's draconian limits on the

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Speaker 1: celebration of the Old Rite back in February will On

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Speaker 1: May twenty eighth, their petition was granted with Pope Leo's approval. Father,

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Speaker 1: why do you think Pope Leo granted this exemption to

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Speaker 1: this one parish himself.

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Speaker 3: I think this is a good sign. It means that

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Speaker 3: the bishop of that diocese requested it, because that's where

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Speaker 3: the initiatives started, and that was always a possibility under

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Speaker 3: Pope Francis to have parishes celebrate the Mass, but they

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Speaker 3: were commonly either the bishop didn't want to ask for

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Speaker 3: it or the vatic and said no or said yes

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Speaker 3: for a year or two. So this is a good

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Speaker 3: sign because it means that Pope Leo is cognizant that

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Speaker 3: people want to go to the Latin Mass, want to

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Speaker 3: do so like everybody else in a parish church. They

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Speaker 3: don't want to have to go to a convent or

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Speaker 3: a chapel or some outward place.

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Speaker 2: So this is good.

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Speaker 1: I'm very happy, Okay, Bob, Does this indicate an openness

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Speaker 1: to a restoration of what Pope Benedict had? And remember,

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Speaker 1: just to remind those who may not be as familiar,

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Speaker 1: Pope Benedict the two popes removed from now before he

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Speaker 1: approved the traditional Latin Mass. Any priest could say it

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Speaker 1: anywhere in the world, and it kind of brought a

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Speaker 1: close to a long period of liturgical tumult. This was

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Speaker 1: and it was peaceful for a long time. Might Pope

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Speaker 1: Leo be moving back to something like that? Could this

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Speaker 1: be the start of a trend?

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Speaker 4: Well, I hope so. I mean, I think we all

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Speaker 4: would like to have seen him come out swinging and

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Speaker 4: really just reverse this and say, you know, on second thought,

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Speaker 4: and maybe this will happen at some point. The limitations

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Speaker 4: placed on the traditional Latin Mass almost to the point

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Speaker 4: of abolishing it just to produce too much pain, and

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Speaker 4: as they found out in the survey of the bishops,

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Speaker 4: a lot of bishops thought it would.

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Speaker 2: Produce more harm than good.

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Speaker 4: I think we want to go slow here, though I

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Speaker 4: know people get frustrated. I myself am frustrated. Trying to

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Speaker 4: figure out where we're going, because Leo strikes me as

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Speaker 4: a person who is not a kind of a revolutionary guy.

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Speaker 4: He likes kind of smooth transitions. He seems to have

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Speaker 4: a very pleasant personality. He may be the type of

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Speaker 4: guy who in dribs and drabs, gives us bits in

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Speaker 4: piece of this here and there, and sooner or later

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Speaker 4: if that continues, and I don't see any reason why

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Speaker 4: it shouldn't you get to the point where whatever the

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Speaker 4: actual rules were in effect. Now the Latin Mass has

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Speaker 4: been approved in a variety of places. So good for

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Speaker 4: a step, but we want to see some other steps

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Speaker 4: rather quickly, because clearly there's been an injustice done here.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Father, as you mentioned Bishop Michael Siss who is

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Speaker 1: the Bishop of sant Angelo. He requested that exemption from

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Speaker 1: Pope Francis's man and the local parish priest posted this

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Speaker 1: tweet thanking the Vatican for the permission.

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Speaker 2: The curious thing is here.

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Speaker 1: That permission is only for two years, father, which I

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Speaker 1: frankly don't understand. This is a validlicit right, and Father

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Speaker 1: Freddie Perez says the attendees in his parish are mostly

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Speaker 1: young families and it's the most heavily attended Mass in

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Speaker 1: his parish. What about the other traditional Catholics facing exile

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Speaker 1: from their parish as father, why only make this exemption

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Speaker 1: for one parish?

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Speaker 3: Well, I mean this is where the next step is.

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Speaker 3: You know, Catholics in Detroit, for instance, and now write

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Speaker 3: to their bishop and say, could you make a similar

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Speaker 3: application because the Mass was reduced from I believe twenty

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Speaker 3: eight parishes to four. And you know, wait a minute,

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Speaker 3: you just disrupted the life and prayer of twenty eight

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Speaker 3: different Catholic communities. No, the two year limit reflects what

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Speaker 3: Pope Francis had written in his letter when he set

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Speaker 3: up traditsionis custodies. He said that eventually everybody will have

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Speaker 3: to return to the new Mass. So the idea was

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Speaker 3: we'll tolerated for a few years, but you know that's

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Speaker 3: just kind of a runway to your acceptance, and eventually

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Speaker 3: this plane is going to land there be no more

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Speaker 3: Latin masses. Pope Leo has to really change that mentality. Look,

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Speaker 3: we respect the legitimacy and value of the traditional Latin Mass,

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Speaker 3: and the people who go to it deserve also to

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Speaker 3: be respected.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that weaning people away and thinking that two years

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Speaker 1: is going to do it is kind of silly. I mean,

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Speaker 1: and you see, you see after those first exemptions expired,

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Speaker 1: they're asking for another exemption. This law needs to go

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Speaker 1: Tradizionist custodis, which was the document, the Modo approprio that

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Speaker 1: Pope Francis passed. It really does need to go away.

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Speaker 1: And you know, guys, someone reminded me this week. They

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Speaker 1: sent me something that Mother Angelica told me during an

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Speaker 1: interview for her biography. I think it really speaks to

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Speaker 1: wear those young people and even those who are not

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Speaker 1: part of the Catholic faith. They come to the Latin

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Speaker 1: Mass because they're looking for something. Here's what she said.

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Speaker 1: During the Latin Mass, you had the missile. If you

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Speaker 1: wanted to follow it in English, it was almost mystical.

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Speaker 1: It gave you an awareness of heaven, of the awesome

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Speaker 1: humility of God, who manifests himself in the guise of

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Speaker 1: bread and wine. The love that he had for us,

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Speaker 1: his desire to remain with us, is simply awesome. You

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Speaker 1: could concentrate on that love because you weren't distracted by

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Speaker 1: your own language. You could go anywhere in the world

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Speaker 1: and you always knew what.

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Speaker 2: Was going on.

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Speaker 1: It was contemplative because as the Mass was going on,

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Speaker 1: you could close your eyes and visualize what really happened.

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Speaker 2: You could feel it, Bob.

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Speaker 1: I think that's how a lot of people feel when

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Speaker 1: they attend the traditional Roman rte. These are not people,

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Speaker 1: by the way, who grew up or have a nostalgic

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Speaker 1: trip or you know, are holding on to something. People

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Speaker 1: are encounjuring the old Mass for the first time.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm always surprised at people who turn away from

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Speaker 4: the Latin Mass because they consider it old. I did

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Speaker 4: grow up on your Latin Mass as a Walter book.

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Speaker 4: Actually remember I memorized all the responses so that I

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Speaker 4: could get to do weddings and funerals and just be

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Speaker 4: at the regular Mass and get out of school. Mostly

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Speaker 4: why we were all motivated back in those days. But

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Speaker 4: you know, for me, and I've stayed, I have retained

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Speaker 4: the love for Latin my whole life as a result

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Speaker 4: of that exposure. To me, it takes us way back

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Speaker 4: into the beginnings of the church. And I've said this

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Speaker 4: many times on this show. But in a time when

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Speaker 4: we all feel at sea, and especially when young people

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Speaker 4: are looking for an anchor to something. What better could

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Speaker 4: you have. Greek is a great language too, but we're

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Speaker 4: not going to all begin to learn a new alphabet

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Speaker 4: and whatnot. And there are a lot of Latin words

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Speaker 4: that overlap with our English words, and so this is

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Speaker 4: this is something that we have that is present, it's approachable,

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Speaker 4: clearly having an energizing effect on Catholics today, young Catholics today.

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Speaker 4: I don't see what the major downside is. I think

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Speaker 4: that the big difficulty for Leo is going to be

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Speaker 4: negotiating a personal problem, and that is that on the

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Speaker 4: one hand, he was very close with Francis. He wants

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Speaker 4: to respect the legacy of Francis, and that's his right

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Speaker 4: to do. But on the other hand, he's faced with

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Speaker 4: what clearly is an error and something that.

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Speaker 2: Needs to be corrected.

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Speaker 4: So I think that's the drama. We're not going to

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Speaker 4: see a place.

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Speaker 1: You know, as Bob said that Father, I'm mindful of

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Speaker 1: Mother Angelica, who was broadcasting the Mass from her own

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Speaker 1: convent and they put cameras in which he built her

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Speaker 1: new shrine, and they were doing the Mass out Orientum

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Speaker 1: facing east. Now it was the New Right, but it

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Speaker 1: was in Latin, and you had the priest facing east,

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Speaker 1: facing away from the people, or rather praying with the people.

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Speaker 1: My question is this, the bishop said they could no

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Speaker 1: longer broadcast that, and DEDWT does not broadcast that mass

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Speaker 1: any longer because they didn't want to acclimate people to

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Speaker 1: that form of reverence sacred worship. Frankly, I think it's

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Speaker 1: the most abysmal thing they've ever done as far as

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Speaker 1: television production is concerned. Not that the bishops have a

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Speaker 1: great track record, but your thoughts on this bias against

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Speaker 1: the traditional Roman Latin foundation upon which the new Mass rests.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's manifested when you forbid oud orientum, which is

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Speaker 3: mass facing toward the crucifix, the tabernacle korum Deo's another.

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Speaker 2: Way we talk about it.

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Speaker 3: You're facing toward the east because you're looking toward the

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Speaker 3: returning Messiah on the second coming. So that really is

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Speaker 3: Cardinal Sarah said that if you really want to make

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Speaker 3: the new Mass a more reverent experience, celebrate the mass

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Speaker 3: oudo orientum, not facing the people, because the sacrificial aspect

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Speaker 3: comes forward. Now, we had a couple of bishops recently

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Speaker 3: others in the past forbid the new mass oud orientum

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Speaker 3: in their diocese. Well, about ten days ago, Pope Leo

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Speaker 3: celebrated Mass out orientum in the chapel of the Carabinieri,

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Speaker 3: which are the Italian police who guard Castle Gondolfo, and

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Speaker 3: he did that publicly. It's a public mass, so there

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Speaker 3: can't be any private The pope is the model of

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Speaker 3: the liturgy celebrated for the rest of the Roman Church.

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Speaker 3: So if the Pope does it out orientum, everybody else can.

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Speaker 2: So I hope.

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Speaker 3: Bishops will withdraw those imprudent decisions they've made. But then

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Speaker 3: let's get back to your question, which is foundations. You know,

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Speaker 3: remember the Lord said, you know, don't build on sand,

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Speaker 3: build on We've got to know where we came from

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Speaker 3: in order to know how we can go somewhere, you know,

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Speaker 3: in the future. And we came from a tradition of

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Speaker 3: worship which is grounded in the Old Testament Temple, It's

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Speaker 3: grounded of course in our saviors, the Last Supper, in

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Speaker 3: the Crucifixion, and then the practice of the Early Church,

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Speaker 3: which kind of brought it all together. So to say

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Speaker 3: that after nineteen sixty five nothing from the Old can

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Speaker 3: be kept. That's one reason why young peopeople were saying, no,

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Speaker 3: let me dip into that and find out what's going on.

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Speaker 3: And once they do, they say, this is where.

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Speaker 2: I want to go. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: No. And when I see these young people packing in,

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Speaker 1: they all have that same spirit and wonder that Mother

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Speaker 1: Angelica had when she went to the Mass, and she

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Speaker 1: did approach it almost with a childlike wonder. You know,

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Speaker 1: she was in awe of the of the entire experience,

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Speaker 1: and she just thought the vernacular brought that other worldliness,

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Speaker 1: that supernatural quality, that mysticism down a notch or two,

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Speaker 1: and ended up preferring the other form of the Mass,

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Speaker 1: which is reverent, beautiful and attractive. Obviously, or people wouldn't

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Speaker 1: be coming in such vast numbers. Anyway, there's a kind

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Speaker 1: of disturbing story. I almost hated to get to this,

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Speaker 1: but I think we should address it. A former official

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Speaker 1: at the Vatican Secretariat of State returned to work this

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Speaker 1: week after serving a five year prison sentence for possession

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Speaker 1: of child pornography.

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Speaker 2: Whither Carlo Cappella is his name.

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Speaker 1: His criminal charges originated in twenty seventeen. The priest of

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Speaker 1: the Archdiocese of Milan had been stationed in the Apostolic

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Speaker 1: Nunciature in DC.

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Speaker 2: That's the Vatican's embassy in the.

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Speaker 1: United States in Washington, headed by Cardinal Christophe Pierre. Now,

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Speaker 1: in twenty eighteen, Capella was convicted by a Vatican court

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Speaker 1: for possession and distribution of child pornography, with the aggravating

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Speaker 1: circumstance of its large quantity that was in the prosecution Bob.

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Speaker 1: Both the US and Canada wanted to prosecute this priest.

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Speaker 1: The Canadians had a warrant out for his arrest after

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Speaker 1: he downloaded child porn in Ontario during a visit. I

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Speaker 1: guess the Vatican refused to waive the diplomatic immunity and

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Speaker 1: he fled to the Vatican.

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Speaker 2: What's going on here?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm sorry to say that. I think this is

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Speaker 4: just another example of what I would call misplaced mercy.

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Speaker 4: You know, certainly we want to be merciful. He seems

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Speaker 4: to have been very repentant, but that's not enough in

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Speaker 4: a case like this, where as you rightly say, man

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Speaker 4: arrest warrants are issued because he's not only had downloaded,

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Speaker 4: but he was distributing whatever that.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 4: I tried to look into this and apparently he puts

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Speaker 4: some images up on is it called Tumblr, which maybe

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Speaker 4: a gay Exchange its online site.

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Speaker 2: It's it's like an Instagram Instagram types.

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Speaker 4: But but look this that this offense, which clearly is

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Speaker 4: a grave evil. I mean, he was reduced from being

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Speaker 4: a mon senior to a priest. Maybe Father Murray, as

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Speaker 4: a cannonist, would like to talk to why he wasn't

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Speaker 4: removed from the priesthood. I mean, I know personally priests

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Speaker 4: who were removed for just the slightest accusation of things

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Speaker 4: that they were even later exonerated from and were removed

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Speaker 4: from ministry worked in menial jobs out in the secular world.

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Speaker 4: And this man, apparently, even while he was in prison

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Speaker 4: in the Vatican for five years, was working with the

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Speaker 4: Secretariat of State and then gets put back in a

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Speaker 4: job secretly in a way, it's just an other of

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Speaker 4: these examples where certain people who are close to influential

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Speaker 4: figures in the Vatican kind of get a half pass,

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Speaker 4: while in the rest of the world, if a priest

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Speaker 4: were guilty of that, he would be in deep, deep trouble.

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Speaker 4: Even the Vatican said he couldn't go back to a

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Speaker 4: parish or to a diocese. So what does that tell

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Speaker 4: us about the way that they dealt with it?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, father.

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Speaker 1: This is to me, it's scandalous. I mean, he's at

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Speaker 1: work at the Vatican Secretariat of State. As Bob mentioned,

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Speaker 1: he served five years in a Vatican jail, and an

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Speaker 1: official at the Secretariat of State told Pillar, I'll read this.

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Speaker 1: It was clearly presented as an act of mercy. The

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Speaker 1: intention was that this man, who had not been laisized

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Speaker 1: but clearly could not return to his diocese or serve

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Speaker 1: in a parish, could collaborate in the office and remain

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Speaker 1: in the Vatican, where he is effectively secluded but without

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Speaker 1: a formal office. Your thoughts on this, Murphy, Yeah, given

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Speaker 1: the grave nature, the crime's here fault all.

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Speaker 3: Right, had a lot to say on this. Let's start this.

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Speaker 3: Let's say if he wasn't a Vatican official priest, Let's

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Speaker 3: say he was a Swiss guard.

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Speaker 2: Bob's read that.

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Speaker 3: Let's say he was a Swiss guard and he was

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Speaker 3: assigned to a nunsituer overseas and he was looking at

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Speaker 3: child pornography. Would he be left into the Swiss Guard?

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Speaker 3: Would he be given duties of protecting priests in the back,

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Speaker 3: of course not, He'd be removed. He's untrustworthy. You don't

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Speaker 3: put police enforcement in the hands of criminals. Why is

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Speaker 3: it that a criminal priest is allowed to stay working

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Speaker 3: as a priest at all, let alone in the Vatican

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Speaker 3: where he's occupying an important role which he of course

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Speaker 3: is involved in decision making and analysis and advice regarding

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Speaker 3: other priests and their behavior. This is absurd. This man

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Speaker 3: is obviously unqualified to be a shepherd of So let's

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Speaker 3: say he had been, this had happened when he was

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Speaker 3: a seminarian and he caught him with Would they ever

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Speaker 3: overordained him and said, I'm sorry, you can't work in parish.

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Speaker 3: Was going to send you the Vatican Secretary of States,

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Speaker 3: you can work as a paper pusher. It's absurd, It's

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Speaker 3: all wrong.

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Speaker 2: Bob is right.

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Speaker 3: This is misplaced mercy. There is no mercy when you

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Speaker 3: signal to your institution that you can view child pornography

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Speaker 3: and stay on the job.

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Speaker 2: No mercy in that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And just so people know, and I'm not going

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Speaker 1: to get into it. This is a family show. I

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Speaker 1: don't want to get the scandalis but these are the

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Speaker 1: reports are that these are images and videos of adults

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Speaker 1: interacting with these children. Okay, it's not just pictures of

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Speaker 1: the children it's graphic, horrible, evil stuff. And father, I

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Speaker 1: guess the reason they can't they have to keep them

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Speaker 1: in the walls of the Vatican is because you've got

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Speaker 1: the United States and Canada that want to prosecute him

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Speaker 1: because he broke laws in those countries.

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Speaker 2: So they're not keep him there.

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Speaker 1: Well, maybe he should be sweeping, you know, he should

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Speaker 1: be clipping the hedges in the Vatican garden or something.

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Speaker 2: He shouldn't be working.

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Speaker 3: He shouldn't be a priest. And secondly, he had diplomatic

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Speaker 3: community in America because he was a diplomatic I don't

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Speaker 3: know if he had diplomatic union in Canada because he

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Speaker 3: was visiting there as a tourist. Unless he was sent

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Speaker 3: there and there was in the arrangement, the Canadian garnment

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Speaker 3: he could work in the end. I don't think that's

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Speaker 3: what happened. So, yeah, the Vatican should have been upright.

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Speaker 3: Remember we've said during the child abuse saying bishops most

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Speaker 3: cooperate with secular authorities in the pursuit of justice. Well,

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Speaker 3: the Vatican's not cooperating with the Canadians. Yeah, send him

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Speaker 3: back to Ottawa, but remove him from the priestood first,

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Speaker 3: because he doesn't deserve to be a priest, and he

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Speaker 3: himself should recognize if he's truly repentant, he should say yes,

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Speaker 3: I understand, I can't be a shepherd of souls in

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Speaker 3: the future because I betrayed the trust. My goodness. If

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Speaker 3: a policeman shoots a criminal in committing a crime, they

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Speaker 3: take away his gun sometimes so they can investigate. This

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Speaker 3: man can still be a priest after he's pleaded, you know,

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Speaker 3: was found guilty. And this is false mercy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it's a sick story.

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Speaker 1: But I have to say, we have to say in

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Speaker 1: full candor, this is sort of the pattern that we

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Speaker 1: saw under Pope Francis. In this case largely happened in

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Speaker 1: twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen.

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Speaker 2: This is when Pope Francis was running.

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Speaker 1: A show, and he did show an inordinate mercy to

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Speaker 1: these people who were I don't even know how to

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Speaker 1: put it sexual degenerates. I guess the best way to

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Speaker 1: put it, the kindest way to put it. Let's hope

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Speaker 1: justice prevails here. It's awful, I mean, just to propagate

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Speaker 1: that kind of material and to plant those seeds in

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Speaker 1: people's minds at hearts and souls. It's deeply wicked and

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Speaker 1: of course an abuse of the innocent children involved. Let's

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Speaker 1: turn to the Middle East, because I can't stand discussing

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Speaker 1: that story anymore. Pope Leo continues to speak out on

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Speaker 1: the violence there. On Sunday, he condemned what he called

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Speaker 1: the barbarity of the war in Gaza and the indiscriminate

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Speaker 1: use of force, as Gaza's Civil Defense agency said at

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Speaker 1: least ninety three Palestinians had been killed. Now, Israeli Prime

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Speaker 1: Minister Benjamin yet Yahu he got on the phone with

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Speaker 1: Popolo on July eighteenth after an Israeli tank struck the

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Speaker 1: only Catholic church in Gaza, killing three people. Now, according

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Speaker 1: to the Prime Minister, he said, Israel deeply regrets that

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Speaker 1: a stray ammunition hit Gaza's Holy Family Church.

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Speaker 2: That was the statement.

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Speaker 1: Palestinian President Mahmoud Abas called Pope Leo on July twenty

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Speaker 1: first to discuss the war and the violence in the

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Speaker 1: West Bank in the wake of the shelling. On July

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Speaker 1: twenty at this is important, Cardinal Pierre Battista Pizza Bala,

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Speaker 1: who is the Latin Patriarch, celebrated Mass at Holy Family Church,

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Speaker 1: reminding parishioners. They've not been forgotten. Bob, give me your

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Speaker 1: gut on this. I mean, Gaza has been leveled. You

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Speaker 1: look at the pictures, there's really nothing. The church is

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Speaker 1: the only thing standing. The entire complex is bombed. The

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Speaker 1: neighborhood's gone. Do you believe this was a straight tank

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Speaker 1: shell and the Pope just renewed his call for a ceasefire.

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Speaker 2: How effective will that be?

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Speaker 4: Well, at that latter point is very difficult to say,

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Speaker 4: because the Israelis are they're really pursuing hard violence against

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Speaker 4: Hamas in Gaza and against Cosins in general. I'm a

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Speaker 4: little skeptical of this, as cardinal piece of Bala is

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Speaker 4: that this was just a mistake. I mean, there are

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Speaker 4: mistakes during the fog of war. But as Pizza Bala

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Speaker 4: rightly pointed out, it's pretty easy to identify a church.

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Speaker 4: It's got a cross on it, it's in a certain way.

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Speaker 4: They must have known what that area was. And generally

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Speaker 4: I'm on the side of Israel, but there has been

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Speaker 4: a significant amount of Israeli Jewish Israeli pressure against Christians

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Speaker 4: and killing of Christians, driving them off lands. I talk

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Speaker 4: about this actually in my book about my new book

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Speaker 4: about Martyrs and Persecution in the twenty first century, that

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Speaker 4: in Israel there has been even within the Jewish controlled territories,

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Speaker 4: some pressure put on the Church. So I don't know

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Speaker 4: what to make about this, but I can say this,

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Speaker 4: I know an awful lot of people who like me,

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Speaker 4: are basically on the side of Israel, who are starting

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Speaker 4: to come around to the view that, look, it's not

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Speaker 4: our decision to make, but it's probably getting to that

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Speaker 4: point where the war has achieved what it can achieve.

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Speaker 4: We stop the fighting at this point and then go

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Speaker 4: on to deal with whatever is there in the end.

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Speaker 4: And frankly, as you rightly say, Raymond, there's not much

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Speaker 4: it's left there at this point.

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Speaker 2: No, it's gravel.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the police has been reduced to gravel and

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Speaker 1: look hostages. Obviously, those hostages should have been released long ago.

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Speaker 1: That should have been the condition for the ceasefire. For

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Speaker 1: whatever reason that everybody decided both sides are wanting to

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Speaker 1: continue this thing. I know if I were Hamas, I

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Speaker 1: would have released these hostages and tried to get everybody

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Speaker 1: to come to the table. But Father Cardinal Pittsaballa visited

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Speaker 1: Gaza with Orthodox leaders and he said, this war has

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Speaker 1: to end.

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Speaker 2: Even Trump. President Trump was.

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Speaker 1: Furious with net Yahoo when he saw the church had

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Speaker 1: been hit and it was just a facade of the church.

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Speaker 1: The body of the church is intact. But this Christian

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Speaker 1: community is really under attack from all sides.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's i you know, not the Israeli army has

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Speaker 3: to be super careful and not attacking religious sites which

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Speaker 3: are obviously not being used for war purposes. And it's

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Speaker 3: well known that Catholic Church is famous, the priests there

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Speaker 3: is well known. In fact, he was wounded in the attack, So,

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Speaker 3: you know, very regrettable. But you know, the hostages that

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Speaker 3: headlines never lead with. While the hostage crisis continues, the

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Speaker 3: Israeli army continues to seek the freedom, those are never

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Speaker 3: the headline. The headlines are always people dying in Gaza.

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Speaker 3: The people dying in Gaza because Hamas killed one thousand,

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Speaker 3: seven hundred Jews on October the seventh and refuses to

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Speaker 3: release the hostages they took. And this is it's always forgotten.

437
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:29,960
Speaker 3: It varies. I regret to see the loss of life,

438
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:34,359
Speaker 3: but you know, civilian casualties occur when you declare war

439
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:37,640
Speaker 3: on another country in an illegal manner. As they did

440
00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:40,480
Speaker 3: with the massacres, and then expect that the opponents, the

441
00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:44,000
Speaker 3: Israelis are going to you know, do surgical strikes only well,

442
00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:46,639
Speaker 3: sometimes you hit a building and there are people in

443
00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:49,000
Speaker 3: it beside the terrorists. That's on the terrorists.

444
00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:50,760
Speaker 2: So I don't like war.

445
00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:53,280
Speaker 3: It's war is not good, but you got to fight

446
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:55,480
Speaker 3: back when you're under threat, and that's what the Israelis

447
00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:56,000
Speaker 3: have done.

448
00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:56,879
Speaker 2: Well.

449
00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:01,000
Speaker 1: You know, look, I also I am very cognizant of it.

450
00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:03,520
Speaker 1: I know you all are of the Christians caught in

451
00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:06,520
Speaker 1: the middle of this thing because they're neither Hamas supporters,

452
00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:09,600
Speaker 1: nor are they you know with Israel. They're they're people

453
00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:12,240
Speaker 1: in between, and they remain in our prayers. And I

454
00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:14,639
Speaker 1: think that's why Pitts and Balla is walking this firewalk

455
00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:16,720
Speaker 1: trying to figure out how do I, how do I

456
00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:19,720
Speaker 1: represent these people? How do I keep all sides together?

457
00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:22,720
Speaker 1: And that is very difficult, but look, our prayers go

458
00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:27,280
Speaker 1: out to all of them, particularly that beleaguered Christian community.

459
00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:30,160
Speaker 1: But yeah, you've got to everybody's got to want peace.

460
00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:34,159
Speaker 1: And I don't know why Hamas keeps digging in. You know,

461
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:36,760
Speaker 1: obviously Israel wants to you know, they want to drive

462
00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:38,520
Speaker 1: Hamas out. But the question is what do you do

463
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:41,480
Speaker 1: with all these Palestinian people? Where do they go? The

464
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:45,000
Speaker 1: Egypt doesn't want them, Jordan doesn't want them. They are

465
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:46,800
Speaker 1: they to live in sea colonies. I don't know what

466
00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:49,000
Speaker 1: you do with all those people. So that's another question,

467
00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:52,200
Speaker 1: but we'll move on. Did you see this bizarre story

468
00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:56,440
Speaker 1: in the Archdiocese in Seminary of Denver. We missed this

469
00:23:56,840 --> 00:24:00,720
Speaker 1: during our hiatus last week. A so called blood ritual

470
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:04,840
Speaker 1: involving fifteen seminarians and the vice rector of the seminary

471
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:08,560
Speaker 1: took place during a ski trip. Now the video just surfaced,

472
00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:11,199
Speaker 1: but it was from January of twenty twenty four. The

473
00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:15,479
Speaker 1: incident also involved someone dressed in a Yeti costume. This

474
00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:20,240
Speaker 1: odd blood oath ceremony was captured on video. Father the

475
00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:23,440
Speaker 1: Archdiocese of Denver has referred to this incident as a

476
00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:27,720
Speaker 1: prank and the individual responsible has been removed from seminary leadership,

477
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:31,919
Speaker 1: but the vice rector remains on the faculty as a professor,

478
00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:34,720
Speaker 1: and earlier this year in March, the rector of the

479
00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:40,200
Speaker 1: seminary was removed from mishandling this affair. Inexplicably, this ritual

480
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:44,840
Speaker 1: apparently occurred not once, but twice. A seminary who actually

481
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:47,119
Speaker 1: refused to participate was placed on sabbatical.

482
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:48,800
Speaker 2: I don't even know where to begin with this. Father.

483
00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:51,880
Speaker 1: They say it was a prank, and the guy dresses

484
00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:55,119
Speaker 1: up as the Eddy in the ski cabin he owns,

485
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:58,679
Speaker 1: which probably requires its own investigation. But your thoughts is,

486
00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:00,920
Speaker 1: isn't appropriate prank for seminarians?

487
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:03,760
Speaker 3: Well, in the category of pranks, you have to say,

488
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:08,280
Speaker 3: is this an appropriate prank? Obviously not. It's crazed. This

489
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:13,240
Speaker 3: priest vice rector was staying brought the seminaries of the

490
00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:15,680
Speaker 3: home of a friend of his, and the friend dresses

491
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:19,560
Speaker 3: up in this animal costume and then they have a

492
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:21,880
Speaker 3: knife and they tell the seminy you got to come here,

493
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:27,760
Speaker 3: cut your arm, lead, swear, don't tell any This is insane.

494
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:32,400
Speaker 3: This is like a horror movie being done to kind

495
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 3: of like, I don't know what the purpose was, but

496
00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:38,760
Speaker 3: what does it reveal? It reveals disorder in that seminary

497
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:41,399
Speaker 3: of the highest degree. Why in the world is a

498
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:44,000
Speaker 3: vice rector thinking this is an appropriate way to deal

499
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:47,280
Speaker 3: with seminarians? And then secondly, why was he kept on

500
00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:50,720
Speaker 3: the faculty of the seminary after doing this, this is insane.

501
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:54,400
Speaker 3: Let's okay we take it out of context. Let's say

502
00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:58,760
Speaker 3: the seminarians' families instead of the seminarians, have been invited

503
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:01,879
Speaker 3: to this retreat, and then the vice rector says to them, well,

504
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:04,040
Speaker 3: as a sin as solid area with your seminary brother,

505
00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:05,440
Speaker 3: you got to cut your arm and we're going to

506
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:09,240
Speaker 3: make us wear a blood oath. Everybody would have been

507
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:11,639
Speaker 3: the priest would have been thrown out of the seminary.

508
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:13,520
Speaker 3: The bishop would have said, this is insane. We don't

509
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 3: treat late people like this. But then you reduce it

510
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:19,560
Speaker 3: to a mere prank and keep the guy on bad judgment,

511
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:22,280
Speaker 3: I'm sad to say by the people in the Diocese

512
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:23,159
Speaker 3: of Denver.

513
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:26,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, the father, as you were talking, I'm thinking maybe

514
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:29,480
Speaker 1: it's a new horror franchise. I know what you did

515
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:34,480
Speaker 1: last winter. That's what little It's a blood oath, now, Bob.

516
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:38,040
Speaker 1: The archidiocees apparently did an investigation. They determined there was

517
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:41,040
Speaker 1: no actual oath or blood. You know, they brought out

518
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:42,560
Speaker 1: props and fake blood and stuff.

519
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:45,760
Speaker 2: But can't they go to a movie or bowling? What

520
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:49,440
Speaker 2: are they twelve? Yeah?

521
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:53,199
Speaker 4: When I saw this, other than the immediate horror. What

522
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:55,919
Speaker 4: you're seeing there, I said to myself, even if this

523
00:26:56,080 --> 00:27:00,199
Speaker 4: was a fraternity on some wild college campus, would been

524
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:03,000
Speaker 4: a crazy thing to do with his blood, oath and

525
00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:08,639
Speaker 4: yetties and whatnot. Look, I'm not given to, i hope,

526
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:12,399
Speaker 4: extreme judgments about things like this, but there's a whiff

527
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:16,320
Speaker 4: of the demonic in this in my estimation, and I'm

528
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:18,679
Speaker 4: not close to it. But it just seems to me

529
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:20,719
Speaker 4: that this is the kind of thing that seems to

530
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:24,119
Speaker 4: be tending in a direction that is pretty worrisome. If

531
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:27,600
Speaker 4: it had been you know, not blood and not this

532
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 4: bizarre being, and maybe it was something else that they were,

533
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:33,680
Speaker 4: it was kind of hazing. Maybe you could say, well

534
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:35,760
Speaker 4: it was it was a misjudgment, But it seems to

535
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:39,120
Speaker 4: me to go beyond that, that it's got the elements

536
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:42,560
Speaker 4: of that horror and that that kind of that kind

537
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:45,479
Speaker 4: of witchery and the demonic that we see is beginning

538
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:48,840
Speaker 4: to take over the culture in a variety of ways.

539
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:51,359
Speaker 4: So I just don't like it. It just seems to

540
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:54,280
Speaker 4: me that everyone involved from this, from this we looked

541
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:56,959
Speaker 4: at very carefully. I think they should be out of

542
00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:59,200
Speaker 4: that seminary, but I think they should all be looked

543
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:01,920
Speaker 4: at very carefully and kept tabs on because there is

544
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 4: some let's say, dark spirit operation after there.

545
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:08,160
Speaker 3: Raymond, I gotta, I gotta throw this in, Raymond. Why

546
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:11,760
Speaker 3: is this priest filming this? Why is this being filmed

547
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:15,760
Speaker 3: a prank? Is this a prank? Exactly? No, he's he's

548
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 3: he's doing something knowledge with four, knowledge of what he

549
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:21,560
Speaker 3: wants to do. He wants to keep a record of

550
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:23,240
Speaker 3: it and use it somewhere in the future. This guy

551
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:25,240
Speaker 3: should have nothing to do with Seminary Formation.

552
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:29,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, unless Lorrain and Ed Warren are in the adjoining

553
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 1: ski lodge, don't go near this.

554
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:34,160
Speaker 2: To God, this is it's just bizarre. Look.

555
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 1: I could understand if you've got a group of seminarians

556
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:37,720
Speaker 1: and you all are talking and a guy with a

557
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:40,360
Speaker 1: Yeti suit walks by the window. Okay, it's a lot

558
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:43,160
Speaker 1: of fun. Everybody jumps up and it's a scare. But

559
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:45,960
Speaker 1: this is like a ritual and the guy came in

560
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:48,560
Speaker 1: and you swear an oath to the Yetie. It's crazy.

561
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 1: It's just bizarre, so very inventive. You know, paganism on

562
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:54,320
Speaker 1: display here.

563
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 2: But Father.

564
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:58,840
Speaker 1: A few weeks ago, we talked about Pope Leo's reforms.

565
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:01,320
Speaker 2: I had to. I want to get to this.

566
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 1: Archbishop of Westminster in the UK, Vincent Nichols says this

567
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:11,520
Speaker 1: week he believes Pope Leo will announce new curial reforms

568
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 1: in the fall. That would be reformation of the working

569
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 1: bureaucracy at the Vatican. And this is part of the

570
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:22,520
Speaker 1: reason he was elected, Nichols says, because he has intimate

571
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:25,600
Speaker 1: knowledge of the Church's governance from an insider's perspective.

572
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:26,400
Speaker 2: What do you make of this?

573
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:30,480
Speaker 3: You know, I don't know that Cardinal Nichols has a

574
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:32,680
Speaker 3: crystal ball, meaning he has the ability to see into

575
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:35,600
Speaker 3: the future. I don't know, you know, reforms. Does he

576
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:38,600
Speaker 3: mean structural and canonical reforms that he's going to change

577
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:42,320
Speaker 3: things according to law? Does he mean new appointments. Does

578
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 3: he mean simply new policies as regards you know, some

579
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:48,840
Speaker 3: hot button issues, including finance. I really don't know. I

580
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:51,280
Speaker 3: think we you know, we're in that interim period between

581
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:52,720
Speaker 3: the election of the pope.

582
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:53,760
Speaker 2: He really takes up.

583
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:56,440
Speaker 3: The governance, you know, with clear indications of what he

584
00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 3: wants to do. So I don't really know what to

585
00:29:58,840 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 3: make of this prediction.

586
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:03,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, Bob, the pope it was just announced that the

587
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:06,760
Speaker 1: Pope's going to extend his stay at Costal Gondolfo, which

588
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 1: is the papal summer house. That tells me he's planning

589
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:12,920
Speaker 1: for the fall and winter, which is probably going to

590
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:16,560
Speaker 1: be very robust. But what might courial reforms look like.

591
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:20,640
Speaker 1: Pope Francis just did a whole overhaul of these corial offices,

592
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 1: appointing a slew of people and allegedly streamlining.

593
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:26,680
Speaker 2: I mean, we were kind of critical of those.

594
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:31,280
Speaker 1: Reforms, but what might this look like? What's needed in

595
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 1: your estimation?

596
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 4: Well, to begin with Cardinal Nichols saying that he's going

597
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 4: to continue with these reforms at frances putting in place.

598
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:42,240
Speaker 4: I don't know that he can know that. It just

599
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:46,120
Speaker 4: seems to me that it's one of the common principles

600
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:50,640
Speaker 4: of kind of political philosophy that a person learns responsibility

601
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:53,960
Speaker 4: when they are actually in an office. And so the Pope, sure,

602
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:56,560
Speaker 4: he's been around the administration of the Vatican for quite

603
00:30:56,560 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 4: a while, but there's a difference between observed what other

604
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:03,080
Speaker 4: people are doing and maybe only seeing part of it,

605
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:05,840
Speaker 4: and then being the boss and having to make decisions

606
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 4: about what's going to happen, and clearly what he's going

607
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:09,760
Speaker 4: to have to do. Is he's going to have to

608
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:12,880
Speaker 4: deal with We've said this before, but is the financial

609
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:16,719
Speaker 4: reforms because the Vatican is in serious financial trouble at

610
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:19,920
Speaker 4: this point. And then there are the ongoing sexual reforms

611
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:22,080
Speaker 4: like the ones that we were just talking about with

612
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 4: this priest with the child pornography. So what that's going

613
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:30,240
Speaker 4: to mean in terms of the structure of the way

614
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:32,920
Speaker 4: things are going. I mean, we see these stories that

615
00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:35,960
Speaker 4: worry me a bit because it looks like Dei within

616
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:39,480
Speaker 4: the church where he's talking about a broader participation of

617
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:42,400
Speaker 4: people from around the world and more women in positions.

618
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:45,520
Speaker 4: And look, in principle, there's nothing wrong with that as

619
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 4: long as we're at the end of the day, what

620
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:50,160
Speaker 4: we're getting are the best people in the jobs. But

621
00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:53,840
Speaker 4: when we start to use those categories that are very

622
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:57,640
Speaker 4: familiar to us from politics that have led to a

623
00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:01,760
Speaker 4: lot of difficulty in every place, from government to universities

624
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:06,520
Speaker 4: to the workplace, I want to see competence in the Vatican. Again,

625
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:10,680
Speaker 4: we had a very competent economic reform with Cardinal pell

626
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:13,280
Speaker 4: he was thrown out. There are other things that can

627
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:15,160
Speaker 4: be done about the sexual abuse. This is going to

628
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:18,240
Speaker 4: really have to cut deep into some parts of the Vatican.

629
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:21,640
Speaker 4: And there may be structural reforms that are advisable too,

630
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 4: but the writing is on the wall and cosmetic changes

631
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:28,320
Speaker 4: are not going to be enough any longer. Leo is

632
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:30,960
Speaker 4: going to really have to dig deep if we want

633
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:35,320
Speaker 4: to rescue the Vatican from the status that, in spite

634
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:38,080
Speaker 4: of many attempts at reform, haven't been able to produce

635
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:39,200
Speaker 4: for much activity.

636
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 2: Bob, very quickly.

637
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:43,479
Speaker 1: You sent a piece this week that my hair started

638
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 1: standing up on edge and there's not much to stand up.

639
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 1: But I was looking at this on YouTube and it

640
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:52,640
Speaker 1: allegedly told of reforms that the Pope was making, and

641
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:55,960
Speaker 1: it cited these documents. Of course, the documents don't exist.

642
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:58,920
Speaker 1: It's obvious clickbait to get, you know. So I'm not

643
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:01,640
Speaker 1: giving them any promotion here. But what's the danger of

644
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:04,760
Speaker 1: this kind of AI generated misinformation online?

645
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:10,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, we have been saying for decades that people have

646
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 4: misinterpreted Vatican too, and we're very upset about what the

647
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:18,320
Speaker 4: things that they've done in contradistinction to what the accural

648
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:21,400
Speaker 4: documents of Vatican two actually say. But the other day,

649
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:23,560
Speaker 4: I'm in my home office today and my wife walked

650
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:25,800
Speaker 4: in here and she said to me, the Pope just

651
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:29,440
Speaker 4: passed fifteen regulations that are going to revolutionize the church.

652
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:32,440
Speaker 4: And I said it something possible. She said, no, it's

653
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:34,560
Speaker 4: an online Come look. So she took me in the

654
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:37,240
Speaker 4: other room and we looked at it together, and I said, okay,

655
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:41,360
Speaker 4: look and we went to some reliable sources Catholic News Agency, EWTN,

656
00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:45,320
Speaker 4: Catholic Register. You know, these are the good news agencies,

657
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:48,640
Speaker 4: commentary and opinion or a different story. But if they're

658
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:53,280
Speaker 4: going to be obviously a reliable, confirmable changes in the church,

659
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 4: we're going to see them there. So I think we've

660
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:58,200
Speaker 4: got to tell everybody who's interested in what goes on

661
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:00,680
Speaker 4: in the Catholic Church, whether you're Catholic or not, to

662
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:04,480
Speaker 4: be very very careful because AI has now given people

663
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:07,640
Speaker 4: who are troublemakers tools to make a lot of trouble

664
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:11,279
Speaker 4: and to misrepresent what even the highest authorities in the

665
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:13,839
Speaker 4: church you're doing it. We may even see videos like.

666
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:15,840
Speaker 2: Right, well this is a father.

667
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:17,799
Speaker 1: This is why when people tell me, you know, you

668
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:20,839
Speaker 1: all should do AI versions of yourselves and just put

669
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:24,879
Speaker 1: that show up. No, no, no, we're trusted, because we're

670
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:27,440
Speaker 1: not AI. You know, and I think people like us

671
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:30,560
Speaker 1: are more important now than perhaps ever before because of it.

672
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:31,160
Speaker 2: Go Aheadah No.

673
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:34,520
Speaker 3: There was somebody produced an AI version of Pope Leo

674
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:39,000
Speaker 3: discussing who was better Lebron James or Michael Jordan, and.

675
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:44,399
Speaker 4: It was very What was the answer for he was.

676
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 3: He was arguing for Jordan because he's a Chicago plot

677
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:49,359
Speaker 3: But you know, but I watched it and I'm saying,

678
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:52,480
Speaker 3: wait a minute, that's the Pope talking. But he couldn't

679
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:55,360
Speaker 3: possibly know all these statistics. And then it was all

680
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:57,759
Speaker 3: it was fake. It was a fake story, but they

681
00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:01,120
Speaker 3: were all out there. So no, yeah, the trusted source,

682
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:02,920
Speaker 3: that's what you gotta go to.

683
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:05,440
Speaker 1: Okay, quickly, I want to get through a couple of

684
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:10,160
Speaker 1: things here. Attacks and desecrations on Catholic churches in particular,

685
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:13,480
Speaker 1: but a bunch of churches are continuing at an alarming rate.

686
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 1: On the twelfth and thirteenth of July, the church of

687
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:22,000
Speaker 1: Saint Germain in France was the target of desecration. Piles

688
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:26,120
Speaker 1: of feces were found at the entrance and inside the church,

689
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:29,080
Speaker 1: including the floor around the altar and beneath the altar

690
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:32,440
Speaker 1: cloth that had been torn off. Urine was found on

691
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:35,360
Speaker 1: the sacristy floor. The parish priests discovered the scene on

692
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:38,160
Speaker 1: Sunday morning, and this is not the first time that

693
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:40,640
Speaker 1: this particular church has been vandalized.

694
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:41,320
Speaker 2: Here in the United States.

695
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:45,279
Speaker 1: In the Archdiocese of Pittsburgh, the FBI is investigating vandalism

696
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:50,560
Speaker 1: at Saint Elizabeth of Hungary Church in Allegheny County. Anti

697
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:54,560
Speaker 1: Catholic and anti Semitic graffiti was discovered on a statue

698
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:57,400
Speaker 1: of the Virgin Mary, a plaque on the bell tower,

699
00:35:57,440 --> 00:35:59,880
Speaker 1: and the door of a former convent father.

700
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:02,040
Speaker 2: What do you make of the rise we're seeing in

701
00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:02,840
Speaker 2: these cases?

702
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 1: What's driving this, particularly these anti Catholic and anti Christian attacks.

703
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 3: Well, for me, it's a manifestation of the hostility that

704
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:14,000
Speaker 3: the church has had throughout our history, and sad to say,

705
00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:17,680
Speaker 3: in France, that's often propelled by Islamic immigrants, in other words,

706
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:21,520
Speaker 3: Muslims who are anti Catholic and not afraid of you

707
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:24,920
Speaker 3: risking getting arrested. And a lot of churches have burned

708
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:27,360
Speaker 3: in France. There was the murder of that priest in

709
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 3: northern France while he was celebrating Mass. Now there's this incident,

710
00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:35,320
Speaker 3: you know, it's just an endless series, and the French

711
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:39,560
Speaker 3: government has to put more effort into suppressing this. And

712
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:43,719
Speaker 3: in our own country there isn't that same level of hostility.

713
00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:44,680
Speaker 2: By most.

714
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:48,720
Speaker 3: We don't have a Muslim desecration problem here by large,

715
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:51,200
Speaker 3: but we do have occasional incidents. I don't know what

716
00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:54,640
Speaker 3: the incident in Pittsburgh, a diasis was, but what, however

717
00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:57,360
Speaker 3: did it arrested and jailed? I mean, that's what we

718
00:36:57,440 --> 00:36:57,839
Speaker 3: need to.

719
00:36:57,840 --> 00:36:59,239
Speaker 2: Do, Yeah, Bob.

720
00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:02,239
Speaker 1: According to the u CCB, I'm looking this up, at

721
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:05,480
Speaker 1: least three hundred and eighty seven incidents of vandalism and

722
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:09,960
Speaker 1: desecration have occurred across forty three states and the District

723
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:12,840
Speaker 1: of Columbia since May of twenty twenty. What do you

724
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:13,719
Speaker 1: think is propelling this?

725
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:14,640
Speaker 2: What is this?

726
00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:19,279
Speaker 4: Well, some of it is just satanic, I think, and

727
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:22,239
Speaker 4: to use that term again the last chapter in my

728
00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:26,239
Speaker 4: book on Modern Persecution. I'm not trying to blow my

729
00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 4: own horn, but I happen to know these statistics because

730
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:32,080
Speaker 4: I have a final chapter in there about precisely this. Yeah,

731
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:34,719
Speaker 4: both the United States and Canada, we're not immune from

732
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:37,920
Speaker 4: this in North America. And Father's right, isn't It doesn't

733
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:41,880
Speaker 4: seem to be primarily driven by by the kind of

734
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:45,439
Speaker 4: Muslim anti Christian class that has existed throughout history since

735
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:49,719
Speaker 4: Islam was founded. Here, it's more a kind of a desecration,

736
00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:54,120
Speaker 4: that kind of bubbling anti Christianity below the surface. It

737
00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:57,440
Speaker 4: looks at Christianity is something evil that preached hate against

738
00:37:57,480 --> 00:38:00,359
Speaker 4: gays and repressed women and you know, all that sort

739
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:03,160
Speaker 4: of thing. So, yeah, the bishops did a survey and

740
00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:06,360
Speaker 4: over that four years there were almost four hundred instances

741
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:10,840
Speaker 4: of our sin and vandalism, et cetera. You know. By contrast, France,

742
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:15,000
Speaker 4: I have this in my book too. France loses loses

743
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 4: two religious buildings per month, and to their credit, the

744
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:22,760
Speaker 4: French government has actually put in several million euros trying

745
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:25,959
Speaker 4: to prevent these things. But the problem is so widespread

746
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:28,480
Speaker 4: and the areas that they have to protect because France

747
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:32,400
Speaker 4: obviously was a deeply Christian country, Catholic country at one point,

748
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:34,560
Speaker 4: it makes it hard for them, the police all of it.

749
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 4: In fact, there was a story I excited in my

750
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:39,520
Speaker 4: book that there was a Muslim group that was going

751
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:43,640
Speaker 4: to try to burn down Notre Dame again shortly after

752
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:46,120
Speaker 4: it was going to be reopened. After that horrible fire,

753
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:49,080
Speaker 4: So you can just imagine the kind of challenges and

754
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:52,719
Speaker 4: the forces of order in a place like France are

755
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:53,160
Speaker 4: dealing with.

756
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:55,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, I got to go to something, and we're going

757
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:57,200
Speaker 1: to end on this, and I don't know if this

758
00:38:57,280 --> 00:38:59,160
Speaker 1: is a happy topic or a sad one.

759
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:00,919
Speaker 2: I'm gonna give you a crack.

760
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:04,400
Speaker 1: Fox News is reporting e WT and did a report

761
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:09,560
Speaker 1: on this, celebrating popular beach town brings Sunday mass to

762
00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:13,440
Speaker 1: shore for faithful. That's the Fox News headline, and it's

763
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:16,239
Speaker 1: in all. It's a long island and three parishes are

764
00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:18,680
Speaker 1: hosting masses on the beach.

765
00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:21,560
Speaker 2: Your reaction to this, I.

766
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:24,920
Speaker 1: Mean, I do, frankly don't know what that is to celebrate.

767
00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:27,160
Speaker 1: I thought we were forbidden to get married on the

768
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:30,600
Speaker 1: beaches and at resorts because you do sacred things in

769
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:31,560
Speaker 1: sacred spaces.

770
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:33,120
Speaker 2: What's the story.

771
00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:37,480
Speaker 3: Well, I think, unfortunately, this is a desperate attempt to say,

772
00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:40,879
Speaker 3: to become relevant, we have to, you know, do things

773
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:43,160
Speaker 3: that people are going to find, you know, entertaining and

774
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:49,320
Speaker 3: useful and convenient. There are I know that part of Brooklyn,

775
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:51,759
Speaker 3: you know, the RockA waste there are parish church is

776
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:55,040
Speaker 3: located there precisely so that people go to Mass before

777
00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:58,000
Speaker 3: they go to the beach. You know, I was a

778
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:01,439
Speaker 3: military chap I celebrate Mass in the field. That's one thing.

779
00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:04,400
Speaker 3: We don't have chapels, you know, out in the field,

780
00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:07,760
Speaker 3: but you have a church right there. Mass is sacred

781
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:10,239
Speaker 3: the house of God. You know, we're kind of you know,

782
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:12,799
Speaker 3: after the Council, we got away from this idea of

783
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:14,600
Speaker 3: the church as the house of God and we got

784
00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:19,160
Speaker 3: into like worship space and multi purpose areas. So the

785
00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:22,040
Speaker 3: house of God is profound, it's the it's you know,

786
00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:26,040
Speaker 3: the Temple of God in Heaven is incarnated in a

787
00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:29,120
Speaker 3: certain way in the church building. So you know, we

788
00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:31,759
Speaker 3: enter into the church. It's a cruciform building. It has

789
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:34,919
Speaker 3: a whole structure and order. Everything communicates to us. We've

790
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:38,439
Speaker 3: entered into the sacred anti chamber of heaven. Why would

791
00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:41,960
Speaker 3: you have a mass people in bathing suits and flip

792
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:44,480
Speaker 3: flops when you have a church right across the street.

793
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:45,920
Speaker 3: I'm not in favor of this.

794
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:51,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, Bob, Nothing says soecrlity like thongs and speedos at

795
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:54,520
Speaker 1: your mass service. Go ahead, Bob, I'll give you the

796
00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:57,480
Speaker 1: last word if you can find one after that.

797
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:01,319
Speaker 4: I'm afraid I've become corrupt myself because I looked at

798
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:03,680
Speaker 4: the pictures and I said to myself, well, at least

799
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:04,520
Speaker 4: they're at mass.

800
00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:07,000
Speaker 2: The Father is right.

801
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:10,040
Speaker 4: I mean, if you've got church buildings nearby, and basically

802
00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:12,960
Speaker 4: what you're doing is you're celebrating the sacred mysteries in

803
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:16,239
Speaker 4: a place where you know, five minutes later, people are

804
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:18,160
Speaker 4: going to be throwing beach balls around, They're going to

805
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:20,759
Speaker 4: be swimming, they're going to be you know, God knows

806
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:24,520
Speaker 4: doing what in beaches these days, probably half naked, maybe

807
00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:28,719
Speaker 4: entirely naked in America these days. It's just it's there's

808
00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:34,799
Speaker 4: there's just a clash of sensibilities about this. So look,

809
00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:36,839
Speaker 4: it's good to meet people where they are, but maybe

810
00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:39,200
Speaker 4: you should meet them and provide a van and take

811
00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:41,000
Speaker 4: them down to the parish and then bring them back.

812
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:43,759
Speaker 2: To You don't even have to. There's literally a church

813
00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:44,359
Speaker 2: right there.

814
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:46,920
Speaker 1: As Father was saying that it's on the beach, the

815
00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:48,400
Speaker 1: church is on the beach.

816
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:51,000
Speaker 3: Yep, well there it is, Raymond. Are you know the

817
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:53,239
Speaker 3: fathers from the in the past of the church knew

818
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:55,520
Speaker 3: what they were doing. Uh, you know, you build a

819
00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:58,120
Speaker 3: church in the neighborhood, including a beach area. So people

820
00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:00,440
Speaker 3: go to mass. You don't send the pre down to

821
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:02,200
Speaker 3: the sand and say celebrate Mass here.

822
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:04,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, well we will leave it there. Posse.

823
00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:06,600
Speaker 1: I thank you for the time, and if you want

824
00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:10,160
Speaker 1: more of the Arroyo Grande Prayerful Posse, subscribe to The

825
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:14,279
Speaker 1: Royal Grande Show on YouTube for our podcast wherever you

826
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:17,800
Speaker 1: get your podcast on behalf of Robert Royal, Father Gerald Murray.

827
00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:21,480
Speaker 1: Until the Posse rides again, Stay the course, follow the light.

828
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:23,480
Speaker 2: I'm raining at Arroyo. We'll see you next time.

829
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:27,880
Speaker 1: Arroyo Grande is produced in partnership with iHeart Podcasts and

830
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:31,239
Speaker 1: is available on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get

831
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:44,920
Speaker 1: your podcasts.