1 00:00:01,800 --> 00:00:05,560 Speaker 1: Also media. 2 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:07,920 Speaker 2: Hey everyone, and welcome to the podcast. 3 00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:10,600 Speaker 1: It's meet James today and I'm very lucky to be 4 00:00:10,680 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 1: joined again by Gourdain, who's a journalist from East Kerdistan 5 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:17,640 Speaker 1: working with HENGO, the human rights organization and lots of 6 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:21,640 Speaker 1: other organizations. And we're going to talk today about what 7 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:24,919 Speaker 1: has been happening in Iran for the past few weeks. 8 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:28,320 Speaker 2: So thanks for joining Uscordain. Hello, thank you very much 9 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:32,279 Speaker 2: for inviting me again to the to the show. And yeah, 10 00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:34,680 Speaker 2: I'm really glad to be here and I am ready 11 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:38,320 Speaker 2: to talk about all the things that have happening in 12 00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:42,680 Speaker 2: the past few weeks in Kurdistan and Iran. Yeah. 13 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:45,599 Speaker 1: I think for a lot of people, what is happening 14 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:48,680 Speaker 1: in Iran in the last few weeks has not really 15 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:52,120 Speaker 1: punched into the mainstream US media for the most part, right, 16 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 1: So I think we should probably begin with a very 17 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:59,880 Speaker 1: basic overview of what has been happening and a little 18 00:00:59,880 --> 00:01:02,520 Speaker 1: bit of why it's been happening and also where, because 19 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:04,839 Speaker 1: I think that's worth mentioning, right. 20 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:09,039 Speaker 2: Yeah, sure, So, just a few days before the Nearest Eve, 21 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 2: on December twenty eighth, there was a spontaneous demonstration and 22 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:19,280 Speaker 2: strike in Tehran's Grand Bazaar, which is basically the center 23 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:24,160 Speaker 2: of Iran's trade and one of the most important backbones 24 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:28,320 Speaker 2: of the Islamic regime or revolution. There were strikes inside 25 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:32,160 Speaker 2: the Bazzar, and so many shopkeepers and business owners just 26 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:35,600 Speaker 2: closed down their businesses and they took to the streets 27 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:39,959 Speaker 2: and inside the shopping centers and they started chanting against 28 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:44,480 Speaker 2: the regime, and they were basically protesting the horrible economic 29 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 2: situations and the decrease of the Iranian reol or the 30 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:53,960 Speaker 2: Iranian currency against the US dollar, which was one dollar 31 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:58,640 Speaker 2: was equal to one million point four hundred thousand Iranian reols. 32 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 2: And then these protests quickly spread it all over the 33 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 2: city in Tehran, and as usual this is what happens 34 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 2: all the time, the Iranian regime forces they started attacking 35 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:16,120 Speaker 2: people and trying to control the situation, but it somehow 36 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:20,840 Speaker 2: got out of their control and the next days these protests, 37 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:24,840 Speaker 2: these strikes spread it to other cities, to other major 38 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 2: cities from Shira's, Mashat, Isfahan, Tabriz and many other cities 39 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:35,080 Speaker 2: got involved. But in the early January, around January five 40 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:40,239 Speaker 2: to six and seven, there were major protests in cities 41 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 2: like Malikshahi in Ilan Province and other cities in Kermanshah Province, 42 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:50,600 Speaker 2: which are basically the Kurdish provinces in western Iran. What 43 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 2: is really unique about this is that usually when protests 44 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:58,160 Speaker 2: happened across Iran, or when there is something happening, the 45 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 2: Kurdish regions are the first two react. But this time 46 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:05,760 Speaker 2: the Kurdish regions, like if I want to say, the 47 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 2: West Azerbaijan Province and the San and Dutch Province, they 48 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:13,000 Speaker 2: were not really involved because a lot of people were 49 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 2: saying that in the previous movements, especially in twenty twenty two, 50 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:19,959 Speaker 2: we gave too much. There were too many victims here. 51 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 2: But the center was silent, I mean Tehran and Shiraz 52 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:26,400 Speaker 2: and these major Iranian cities. So a lot of people 53 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 2: didn't really come out and there was nothing happening. And 54 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 2: at the same time, this is my personal opinion, I 55 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:35,840 Speaker 2: think because there was also a heavy snowfall in Kurdish 56 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:38,720 Speaker 2: regions and it was really cold, and I think a 57 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:42,000 Speaker 2: lot of people just didn't want to go out. Yeah, 58 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:46,520 Speaker 2: So this was happening in Malikshahi and other cities in 59 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:51,480 Speaker 2: Elam and Kermansha Province until I think it was January 60 00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:55,839 Speaker 2: fifth that there was a really really big demonstration in Malekshahi, 61 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 2: and it's a small city, but I can say majority 62 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:01,320 Speaker 2: of the people were out on the streets and then 63 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:04,720 Speaker 2: the Iranian regime forces started shooting at people and they 64 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:07,840 Speaker 2: injured and killed a lot of people. And the hospital 65 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:09,960 Speaker 2: in that city, that in that small city was full 66 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:13,760 Speaker 2: and they had no space anymore. So the people took 67 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:17,599 Speaker 2: the injured protesters to the center or the capital of 68 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 2: the province in Elam City, to the Imam Romani Hospital. 69 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:25,279 Speaker 2: What happened in this hospital was that there were so 70 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:28,000 Speaker 2: many people in front of the hospital, like families and 71 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:32,440 Speaker 2: relatives of the victims. And then after a few hours, 72 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:36,440 Speaker 2: the Iranian regime forces started attacking the hospital. There were 73 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:38,880 Speaker 2: so many videos and footage that came out, and we 74 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:42,599 Speaker 2: also posted it on hangout and all over the internet 75 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:46,200 Speaker 2: that the regime forces were basically surrounding the whole building 76 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:50,280 Speaker 2: and then they started shooting tear gases inside the hospital. 77 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:52,840 Speaker 2: And then there was a video that came out that 78 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:57,080 Speaker 2: these regime forces were trying to get inside the hospital 79 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 2: and arrest or kidnap all the injured people or if 80 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:03,120 Speaker 2: there was a dead body or something, and then there 81 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:06,840 Speaker 2: was some sort of resistance from the medical staff, and 82 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:12,599 Speaker 2: then they started beating the medical staff. And then a 83 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 2: few days later we also posted about it that some 84 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 2: of these medical stuff in that hospital were also arrested. 85 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:23,920 Speaker 2: The same thing was also happening in a few other cities, 86 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 2: but this was very specific and it got very viral 87 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:29,920 Speaker 2: on social media and a lot of people talked about it. 88 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 2: And at the same time, there were massive protests taking 89 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:39,719 Speaker 2: place in Tehran and other major cities, which like, I 90 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:42,160 Speaker 2: am twenty eight years old and I think I've never 91 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:47,480 Speaker 2: seen such thing happening in Iran. It was really extraordinary. 92 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:51,000 Speaker 2: So while these things were happening, there were also a 93 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:54,159 Speaker 2: lot of calls from people in Kurtison that they were 94 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 2: calling on Kurdish parties to do something, to say something. 95 00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:03,680 Speaker 2: So on January seven, Kurdish parties from Iran they had 96 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:07,560 Speaker 2: a meeting and they announced a call for a general 97 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:12,760 Speaker 2: strike in Kurdistan for all over Iran. So on Thursday, 98 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:17,320 Speaker 2: January eighth, over forty cities across Kurdistan they went on 99 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:21,000 Speaker 2: a strike which was really big, and it wasn't really 100 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:24,320 Speaker 2: discussed or talked about on major media, and it was 101 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:28,919 Speaker 2: somehow ignored while it was a really big action that 102 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:33,960 Speaker 2: took place there, and usually after the strikes in Curtison, 103 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 2: this is something that's happening for years. People take to 104 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:40,760 Speaker 2: the streets and protest during the night. It happened in 105 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:45,159 Speaker 2: a few cities and there were some people injured and 106 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 2: also killed. And then it's been over one hundred and 107 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:53,480 Speaker 2: twenty four hours. Right now as we're talking now that 108 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 2: there is no internet connection in Iran and even the 109 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:01,679 Speaker 2: normal lines don't work. You cannot call anyone from outside 110 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:05,719 Speaker 2: of Iran. However, there are some people who have access 111 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:09,560 Speaker 2: to the Starlink Internet and a few people that have 112 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 2: access to I don't know, some sort of strong VPNs 113 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 2: that work for a few minutes and then they disconnect. 114 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:21,320 Speaker 2: And at the same time, I have contact to two 115 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:25,280 Speaker 2: people who have been using the SIM cards or the 116 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 2: Internet from Iraq or Turkey. They are living on the 117 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 2: border regions, but they also have a limited access. So 118 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 2: this is what's happening right now. And as we were 119 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:41,320 Speaker 2: talking about this, this blackout in Iran has caused a 120 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 2: lot of confusion, a lot of horror that the world 121 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:51,200 Speaker 2: doesn't know what's happening exactly right now. After the blackout, 122 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:54,480 Speaker 2: there were a few videos and footage that came out 123 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:59,320 Speaker 2: that were published by major activists or journalists like Ali 124 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:02,559 Speaker 2: Jo and Marriage and so many others that they receive 125 00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:05,680 Speaker 2: these videos, I don't know, from the Internet, from starlink, 126 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:08,320 Speaker 2: and you can see in these videos that in a 127 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:13,680 Speaker 2: place called Carriza, it's near Tehran, It's where the Tehran's 128 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:18,200 Speaker 2: Forcenic Medical Center is located. You can see in these 129 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:23,120 Speaker 2: videos that countless of bodies, maybe hundreds or maybe thousands 130 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:26,440 Speaker 2: of bodies are just on the ground. They're in body 131 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 2: bags and desperate family members, relatives, all traumatized, they are 132 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:36,320 Speaker 2: looking for their loved ones and it's just like it's 133 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 2: so unbelievable. It's like movies. And apparently the regime forces 134 00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 2: have machine guned all these people. Jesus, And right now, 135 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:49,800 Speaker 2: because of the blackout, we really don't know how many 136 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:53,560 Speaker 2: people are exactly killed, how many people are injured, how 137 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 2: many people are arrested, or these things. You know, we 138 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:01,000 Speaker 2: don't know the exact numbers, and it makes things so hard. 139 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:04,199 Speaker 2: But today, a few hours ago, there was a report 140 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:09,560 Speaker 2: from Iran International that stated that over twelve thousand people 141 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:13,559 Speaker 2: have been killed. But this also is not fully confirmed 142 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:17,720 Speaker 2: because they just got these things through some sources. And 143 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:21,400 Speaker 2: then at the same time, CBS News also published a 144 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:26,320 Speaker 2: report and said that between twelve thousand to twenty thousand 145 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:29,480 Speaker 2: people have been killed, but again this is not really 146 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:33,720 Speaker 2: fully confirmed or verified because there is no information coming 147 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 2: out that much. At the same time, we also got 148 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:42,559 Speaker 2: reports from Kurdistan that in the city of Kermanshah, these 149 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:48,160 Speaker 2: regime forces were taking the dead bodies with bosses. We 150 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:50,400 Speaker 2: don't know how many, but we know that they were 151 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:53,920 Speaker 2: taking these bodies with bosses like we don't know how 152 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:57,640 Speaker 2: many hundreds. And from this footage that you can also 153 00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:03,080 Speaker 2: see that the regime is taking all these bodies with 154 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 2: containers with talks all over the city in Tehran and 155 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 2: they're bringing it to the center that I mentioned before, 156 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:16,400 Speaker 2: and all families are looking for their children and their people. 157 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:19,800 Speaker 2: At the same time, I also got this direct information 158 00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 2: from someone who is from Rush in north of Iran. 159 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:27,000 Speaker 2: She was traveling from Tehran to Rush and she said 160 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:31,320 Speaker 2: that the people have burnt down most of the mosques 161 00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:35,240 Speaker 2: and also the banks and other government buildings. Are also 162 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:38,800 Speaker 2: footage all over the internet that in most of the 163 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:43,160 Speaker 2: cities that people have burnt down the whole mosques and 164 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:46,760 Speaker 2: buildings belonging to the government. And at the same time 165 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:50,120 Speaker 2: she also said that in that city there are so 166 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:53,000 Speaker 2: many people that are killed. She doesn't know how many 167 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:57,520 Speaker 2: or who, but families were desperately looking for their loved 168 00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:00,839 Speaker 2: ones on the streets or anywhere. This this is basically 169 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:04,680 Speaker 2: the same in almost every major city or even small city. 170 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:08,040 Speaker 2: We don't know exactly, but this is the footage that 171 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:11,559 Speaker 2: we got from tehronly that it shows what's going on. 172 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:13,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's horrific. 173 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:18,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, there are many many also in our organization, we 174 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:23,360 Speaker 2: got a few confirmations from these limited access that some 175 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:26,280 Speaker 2: of these people killed in Tehran are also Kurdish and 176 00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:30,400 Speaker 2: from obviously from other minoritory groups as well. At the 177 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:32,719 Speaker 2: same time, there is a special case that I want 178 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:36,560 Speaker 2: to talk about. There is a person like a protester, 179 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:40,600 Speaker 2: his name is Erfon Sultani, who was arrested a few 180 00:11:40,679 --> 00:11:45,000 Speaker 2: days ago, and he is planned to be executed tomorrow. 181 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:47,880 Speaker 2: We don't know if they're really going to do that 182 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:51,960 Speaker 2: or whatever, but this is a really big sign that 183 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:54,720 Speaker 2: a lot of people are warning about it, like human 184 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:59,720 Speaker 2: rights organizations, and that the regime might carry out mass 185 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 2: executions everywhere and just to take control over the situation, right, 186 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:07,520 Speaker 2: this is also something that might happen. 187 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:11,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, so it did execute people after the mini protest, 188 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:14,680 Speaker 1: but they didn't do a three day trial, right that 189 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:16,920 Speaker 1: they did here, They had like a show trial first 190 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:18,360 Speaker 1: that in those instant series. 191 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:23,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, they executed dozens of people after Genamini was killed, 192 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 2: and also previously in the previous years. So this is 193 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 2: like what what's in general is happening. And at the 194 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:34,480 Speaker 2: same time, like in diaspora in western countries, there are 195 00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 2: groups that are on the streets, like people that are 196 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:41,560 Speaker 2: calling for solidarity or whatever that can be done to 197 00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:45,120 Speaker 2: help people out inside Iran. Yeah, this is like a 198 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:50,520 Speaker 2: general overview of what's happening. And as I said before, 199 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:54,000 Speaker 2: because there is no internet connection and if there is, 200 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:58,680 Speaker 2: it's very limited, nobody knows what's happening exactly. Nobody knows 201 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:03,880 Speaker 2: the exact scale of the the crimes that are taking 202 00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:04,960 Speaker 2: place right now there. 203 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:07,719 Speaker 1: Yeah, let's take a little break for advertisements here and 204 00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:09,520 Speaker 1: then we'll come back and talk a little more. 205 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:21,240 Speaker 2: Okay, and we're back. 206 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:24,640 Speaker 1: So if people have seen anything about this, I don't 207 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:27,280 Speaker 1: know if there are on like a x. They will 208 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:31,959 Speaker 1: have seen videos of masks burning and maybe videos of 209 00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:36,040 Speaker 1: the PAK like shooting at buildings. You know, visit the 210 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:39,400 Speaker 1: videos that were kind of widely circulated before people lost 211 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:44,079 Speaker 1: access to the internet. And I think there's some idea 212 00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 1: that like this isn't armed uprising, and I think it 213 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:51,960 Speaker 1: would be good to explain to people that like that 214 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:55,040 Speaker 1: there are people clearly the present there is presence of 215 00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:58,080 Speaker 1: like armed groups who apposed a regime in Iran, right, 216 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:00,880 Speaker 1: but they are not necessarily the ones like leading the 217 00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:04,480 Speaker 1: charge here. So maybe we could explain a little bit 218 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:09,560 Speaker 1: about both the arm groups who are Kaddish. There are 219 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:12,880 Speaker 1: some arm groups in Balochistan as well, and like where 220 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:15,079 Speaker 1: they sit in relevance to these protests. 221 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:19,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, so far I can speak for Kurtisan, Yeah, there 222 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:24,000 Speaker 2: have I've seen also this footage that PAK or the 223 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:29,360 Speaker 2: Freedom Party of Curtisan published social media. I cannot personally 224 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:34,320 Speaker 2: confirm that, but there has always been a call for 225 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:38,200 Speaker 2: military action against the regime in the previous years, and 226 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:41,880 Speaker 2: even before Gina Amini in twenty twenty two, there was 227 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:44,920 Speaker 2: always some sort of call from the people. But right 228 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:47,800 Speaker 2: now as we are seeing, the Kurdish Party is the 229 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:52,120 Speaker 2: seven major Kurdish parties from Iran. They are not taking 230 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:59,040 Speaker 2: really a real military action because there is a big 231 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:03,600 Speaker 2: fear that if they do this, the regime might bomb 232 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 2: the cities and kill thousands of civilians with heavy weapons 233 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:12,680 Speaker 2: and even missiles. So this is also one of the 234 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:15,920 Speaker 2: main reasons that even the parties have talked about it 235 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:20,120 Speaker 2: many times before when people called for a military sport. 236 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:23,320 Speaker 2: But of course I can also confirm this that all 237 00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 2: of these parties, all of these organizations have some sort 238 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:33,080 Speaker 2: of networks inside Iran that they are monitoring the situation, 239 00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:37,240 Speaker 2: they are collecting information, and they are like connecting people together, 240 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:40,560 Speaker 2: and in some cases that I am aware of that 241 00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 2: happened in my hometown in Urmia in twenty twenty two, 242 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:48,440 Speaker 2: some of these parties also have been able to lead 243 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:52,880 Speaker 2: the protests, like to organized protests. So this is for 244 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:57,640 Speaker 2: now the presence of these parties. But for Baluchistan, I 245 00:15:57,680 --> 00:16:01,000 Speaker 2: can also say that I think it was in October 246 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:04,680 Speaker 2: or November twenty twenty five that all these groups in 247 00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 2: Baluchustan they had a conference and they announced that they 248 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:10,840 Speaker 2: are all united and they're all working together under one banner. 249 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:14,120 Speaker 2: So they also carried out a lot of attacks on 250 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:18,800 Speaker 2: the IRGC bases and vehicles in the regions in the 251 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:22,800 Speaker 2: past few months, but so far we haven't heard much 252 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:26,360 Speaker 2: from them in the past few weeks. We don't know 253 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:29,880 Speaker 2: they're not doing anything, or if they are doing anything, 254 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:34,880 Speaker 2: it's not on the internet or it's not published yet. Yeah, 255 00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:38,720 Speaker 2: this is the situation right now with these groups. But 256 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:43,080 Speaker 2: at the same time, groups or parties actually like Pijak, 257 00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:47,960 Speaker 2: they also have warned that this was like, if I 258 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:51,360 Speaker 2: want to say, quote unquote, don't play with fire, they 259 00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:56,000 Speaker 2: were warning the Dreaming regime that they shouldn't play with fire. Yeah, 260 00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:58,440 Speaker 2: this is a situation right now that's going on with 261 00:16:58,520 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 2: the parties as well. 262 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:02,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's very complicated for people who are not 263 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:05,760 Speaker 1: right familiar. I think like maybe we should take a 264 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:09,840 Speaker 1: step back even further and just explain I guess the 265 00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:13,600 Speaker 1: concept of Iran as like a contiguous empire might be 266 00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:16,600 Speaker 1: a good way to see it, right, with different ethnic 267 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:20,679 Speaker 1: groups currently under the control of one state, Can you 268 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:22,439 Speaker 1: just explain that for people if they if they're not 269 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:26,040 Speaker 1: familiar it, Because I think in the US, like Persian 270 00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:28,960 Speaker 1: identity and Iranian identity by people who are not familiar 271 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:31,920 Speaker 1: with it, are conflated, right, But if you could explain 272 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:34,720 Speaker 1: the different nations that exist within the state, that might 273 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:35,280 Speaker 1: help people. 274 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:40,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, like Iran as a geography is a very diverse country. 275 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:45,679 Speaker 2: So basically, the Persians, or as they call themselves, the Iranians, 276 00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:49,480 Speaker 2: are the dominant group. They are the majority, but we 277 00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 2: also have the Ozari Turkish people who are the second majority, 278 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:57,920 Speaker 2: and then we have the Kurds, we have the Baluchis. 279 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:02,560 Speaker 2: Then there are Ahwazi Arabs in the south, and then 280 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:06,600 Speaker 2: there are Turkmen people, and then there are Thai li Isshis, 281 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:09,520 Speaker 2: but their numbers are really small. And at the same 282 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:14,479 Speaker 2: time there is also the Mazandharrani or the Gilak people 283 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:19,400 Speaker 2: that live in the Caspian Sea coast. There are also 284 00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:23,160 Speaker 2: a different ethnic group. They have a different linguistic background, 285 00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:27,600 Speaker 2: but because of the Iranian state policies of one hundred years, 286 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:31,919 Speaker 2: majority of them are assimilated and no longer carry that 287 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:37,960 Speaker 2: cultural heritage or identity. But in Kurdistan, in Baluchistan, in Ahwas, 288 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:41,199 Speaker 2: in Azerbaijan, it's it's really different, and also in the 289 00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:45,200 Speaker 2: Turkmen regions. Basically this is what Iran looks like. Of course, 290 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:49,399 Speaker 2: there are other small minorities like Armenians even Georgians that 291 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:54,240 Speaker 2: migrated to like hundreds of years ago. There are also 292 00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:59,720 Speaker 2: several religious groups like the Shia Muslims are the majority, 293 00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:04,520 Speaker 2: with Persians and ozo Re Turks are basically the followers 294 00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:09,520 Speaker 2: of this religion. And then there are Sunni Sunni Muslims 295 00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 2: who are like majority of them are Baluchis and Kurds 296 00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:16,560 Speaker 2: and Hawazi Arabs or other groups. And then we have 297 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:21,440 Speaker 2: several other groups from Jews, Christians and also the Yarsanis 298 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:26,080 Speaker 2: which is a Kurdish religious minority, and they're about one 299 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:29,960 Speaker 2: million to two million people. Yeah, this is what Iran 300 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:30,480 Speaker 2: looks like. 301 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:33,240 Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, and I think people can can be easy 302 00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:35,119 Speaker 1: for them to just see it as like Shia Muslim 303 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:37,840 Speaker 1: Persian modelith right, Yeah. 304 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:39,520 Speaker 2: But I also want to add a little bit more 305 00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:44,919 Speaker 2: of how this works. So, because the Iranians or the 306 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 2: Persians are the majority, they own the state. The entire 307 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:53,800 Speaker 2: identity is evolving around them. And because of this, during 308 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:56,960 Speaker 2: the past one hundred and fifty one hundred years, there 309 00:19:56,960 --> 00:20:01,520 Speaker 2: has been a policy of assimilation in every region in 310 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:05,040 Speaker 2: what's called Iran. Right now, for example, if I want 311 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:08,320 Speaker 2: to talk about the language right now, the only official 312 00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:12,119 Speaker 2: language is Persian, and in the past one hundred years 313 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:16,480 Speaker 2: this language has not just been a language of communication, 314 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:20,120 Speaker 2: it has been a language of oppression and similation. And 315 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:24,000 Speaker 2: there are many regions in Iran that were For example, 316 00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:26,680 Speaker 2: if I want to talk about Kurtism, there are many 317 00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:30,639 Speaker 2: regions in Kermanshah and Elam provinces and other regions that 318 00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:34,119 Speaker 2: used to be fully Kurdish and they used to speak 319 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:36,879 Speaker 2: Kurdish just a few decades ago, but now they are 320 00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:42,119 Speaker 2: completely assimilated. The same policy was also followed strictly but 321 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:46,680 Speaker 2: heavily in Turkey and also in Iraq and also in Syria. 322 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:50,119 Speaker 2: So this is how this has been working in the 323 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:55,000 Speaker 2: past century, and how all these ethnic groups with different 324 00:20:55,080 --> 00:21:00,159 Speaker 2: languages and cultural backgrounds and identities have been forced to 325 00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:06,560 Speaker 2: accept an Iranian identity that evolves that turns around the 326 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:11,080 Speaker 2: Persian identity and Persian language and history. Yeah, so this 327 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:15,639 Speaker 2: is also like a general overview of the oppression if 328 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:16,320 Speaker 2: I want. 329 00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:18,600 Speaker 1: To Yeah, no, I think that's pretty the right way 330 00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:20,840 Speaker 1: to think. People who have listened to our coverage of 331 00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:23,960 Speaker 1: ME and MA will be familiar or like I mean, 332 00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:26,040 Speaker 1: this has happening in countersplaces, right, This is this is 333 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:29,199 Speaker 1: why British people will speak English now, yeah, right, like 334 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:31,879 Speaker 1: this is this is how sort of internal empire works. 335 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:36,040 Speaker 1: I wonder like we should talk about the possibilities and 336 00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:39,560 Speaker 1: to an extent, the demands here, right, because in the 337 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:44,280 Speaker 1: US it seems to be that there is a binary choice, 338 00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:48,000 Speaker 1: or that it's presented as a binary choice between the 339 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:51,480 Speaker 1: current state in Iran and a monarchy, and it doesn't 340 00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:53,720 Speaker 1: seem to be an option for self governance, right, for 341 00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:56,960 Speaker 1: Iranian people to have democracy, to have liberty, and that's 342 00:21:57,119 --> 00:21:59,240 Speaker 1: evidently not the case, right, Like, when you have this 343 00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:03,800 Speaker 1: many people in this that's how democracy works. But let's 344 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:06,919 Speaker 1: talk about the sort of the demands and then the 345 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:10,959 Speaker 1: possibilities that it being co opted and turned into another 346 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:11,639 Speaker 1: type of state. 347 00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:18,480 Speaker 2: So here in these days or basically in the past decades, 348 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:23,639 Speaker 2: the main demand of people, all different ethnic groups in 349 00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:28,480 Speaker 2: the geography of Iran has always been a regime change. 350 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:32,320 Speaker 2: They want this regime gone. Yeah, this is the first 351 00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:35,680 Speaker 2: thing that everybody wants. At the same time, there are 352 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:39,600 Speaker 2: other possibilities that could be there. One of the things 353 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:43,800 Speaker 2: that when you look at these ethnic groups and their 354 00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:47,760 Speaker 2: organizations and the people, you can see that also most 355 00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:54,000 Speaker 2: of them want some sort of federalism or autonomy or 356 00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:58,840 Speaker 2: self governance. At the same time, this idea of federalism 357 00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:04,960 Speaker 2: and self governance or self determination is nothing that, let's 358 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:09,080 Speaker 2: say that the dominant group would accept because they don't 359 00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:13,520 Speaker 2: understand it. Because for them, I wouldn't say all of them, 360 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:16,560 Speaker 2: because I cannot. We cannot generalize everyone. But when you 361 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:21,800 Speaker 2: look at it, the dominant group sees Iran as an entity. 362 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:27,200 Speaker 2: That's that's not the verse. It's just Iran and everybody's Iranian, 363 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:32,040 Speaker 2: just like the way Turkey or the Turkish government sees 364 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 2: everything everybody's Turkish. But in Iran, they also say everybody's Iranian. 365 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:40,240 Speaker 2: We will have an election, we will choose a president, 366 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 2: we will have a parliament, and that's it. That's what 367 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:48,800 Speaker 2: is also being let's say offered. But at the same time, 368 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:52,879 Speaker 2: there is also a call for monarchy. But this is 369 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:57,320 Speaker 2: also something that not majority of people, even Persians, majority 370 00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:00,040 Speaker 2: of them don't want monarchy back because there is a 371 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:04,840 Speaker 2: huge discussion between people that here we are fighting against 372 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:09,560 Speaker 2: a dictatorship, why would we bring back another dictatorship. Overall, 373 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:14,760 Speaker 2: I can say that the minority groups majority of them 374 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:18,560 Speaker 2: for now, I would say like if the regime is 375 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:23,840 Speaker 2: going to be changed, they want self governance, but maybe 376 00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:26,399 Speaker 2: in the future also independence. We don't know that this 377 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:29,800 Speaker 2: is something complicated to talk about, but for now, this 378 00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:32,840 Speaker 2: is what minority groups want. But in the Persian community, 379 00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:37,720 Speaker 2: some of them want to have like a republican system 380 00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:41,040 Speaker 2: or whatever, but some of them also want to have 381 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:44,920 Speaker 2: monarchy back. And there are also other groups who reject 382 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:49,080 Speaker 2: both republicans and also like monarchists, and they want to 383 00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:54,200 Speaker 2: have more diverse and more open system for the future. 384 00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 2: But again this is something that we cannot say how 385 00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:01,120 Speaker 2: it's going to be preceded because we don't know how 386 00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:04,000 Speaker 2: the situation is going to be and how these opposition 387 00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:07,600 Speaker 2: groups are going to work together in the future. Are 388 00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:10,639 Speaker 2: they gonna start a civil war or are they gonna 389 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:13,920 Speaker 2: sit down together and find a solution. This is all 390 00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:17,879 Speaker 2: depends on how the regime falls and when, and the 391 00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:22,720 Speaker 2: destruction of this regime is the biggest priority right now. 392 00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:25,159 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean, we could see a situation very 393 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:28,200 Speaker 1: much like the one that's happening and folding right now 394 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:30,639 Speaker 1: in western Kurdishtewan and folding later in Iran if the 395 00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:33,960 Speaker 1: regime falls right which unfortunately is just something else we 396 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:36,439 Speaker 1: have to talk about at the time, but very terrible 397 00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:49,800 Speaker 1: things happening there too. Because you know, most of our 398 00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:52,600 Speaker 1: listeners are in America. The way that people may have 399 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:56,080 Speaker 1: engaged with this is through Donald Trump's posting on truth 400 00:25:56,200 --> 00:26:01,359 Speaker 1: social where he has said that help is coming recently, Like, 401 00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:06,600 Speaker 1: let's talk about what US intervention means, like, especially in 402 00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:09,920 Speaker 1: the in the context of a like the US having 403 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:11,760 Speaker 1: intervened all over the Middle East, and what that has 404 00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:17,679 Speaker 1: meant and be Like the US's recent national security strategy, 405 00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:20,679 Speaker 1: which suggests that basically they don't care about the region 406 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:23,320 Speaker 1: and they don't want to be involved in the region. 407 00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:26,000 Speaker 1: Let's talk about what that means and what it might 408 00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:27,679 Speaker 1: not be the panas here people think it is. 409 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:32,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, So in the past few weeks, Trump hass said 410 00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:34,480 Speaker 2: a lot of things. In the first few days, he 411 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:37,080 Speaker 2: came out and said that if the regime is going 412 00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:39,840 Speaker 2: to kill civilians, we're going to do this, and that 413 00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:42,840 Speaker 2: we're going to punish the regime. And then I think 414 00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:45,159 Speaker 2: it was an interview or he was on TV, I 415 00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:48,760 Speaker 2: don't exactly remember, but he said something that all the 416 00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:51,840 Speaker 2: people that were killed, we don't know if the regime 417 00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:54,639 Speaker 2: killed them. Maybe they just were killed in the crowd, 418 00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:57,400 Speaker 2: like there were like thousands of people in the regional. Yeah, 419 00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:01,320 Speaker 2: like a crash. They were crushed. And this is so unbelievable. 420 00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:04,639 Speaker 2: He's making these comments and then he's just threatening the 421 00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:08,760 Speaker 2: regime all over it again. And just a few hours ago, 422 00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:12,040 Speaker 2: as you mentioned, he said that the help is coming 423 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:16,360 Speaker 2: and he's asking people to keep fighting and keep protesting 424 00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 2: and things like that. However, we should also, like regarding this, 425 00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:24,600 Speaker 2: we should talk about what people also want from Trump. 426 00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:28,600 Speaker 2: This has been like something that a lot of people, 427 00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:31,199 Speaker 2: again this is not the majority, but a lot of 428 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:35,440 Speaker 2: people have been calling on him or basically on America 429 00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:37,960 Speaker 2: or something to do an action against the regime, to 430 00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:41,280 Speaker 2: do something against the regime or damage the regime so 431 00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:44,359 Speaker 2: that people can get rid of it. And right now 432 00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:48,439 Speaker 2: I saw some screenshots from people who were able to 433 00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:52,199 Speaker 2: get access to the internet for a few moments. I 434 00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:55,840 Speaker 2: saw one there was shared on the internet that a 435 00:27:55,920 --> 00:28:00,640 Speaker 2: woman from Tehran was saying that they were killing everyone. 436 00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:02,840 Speaker 2: I don't know where my children are. One of them 437 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:05,359 Speaker 2: is nineteen and the other one is twenty three. She 438 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:08,679 Speaker 2: was just saying, please, please be our voice and just 439 00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:11,760 Speaker 2: tell them to attack tell Trump to help. So this 440 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:16,280 Speaker 2: is also something that there is a call for attacking 441 00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:21,320 Speaker 2: Iran and destroying the regime, but again we don't know 442 00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:24,720 Speaker 2: if Trump is really gonna do this or not. There 443 00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:28,720 Speaker 2: is also like threats coming from Europe as well in UK, 444 00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:34,159 Speaker 2: but again, as you mentioned, if these attacks happen, we 445 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:37,680 Speaker 2: don't is it gonna be something like Iraq or Afghanistan 446 00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:41,360 Speaker 2: or other places, or is it gonna really help the 447 00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:43,840 Speaker 2: people of Iran, the people inside iron to get rid 448 00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:47,320 Speaker 2: of the regime, which is also really hard to understand 449 00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:51,440 Speaker 2: because Trump hasn't been really clear about all these things. 450 00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:54,920 Speaker 2: On one side, he was also asked if he has 451 00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:58,920 Speaker 2: any talks or connections with the so called Prince Razaphalavi, 452 00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:03,000 Speaker 2: and he said no, he's a good guy, but I 453 00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:06,280 Speaker 2: don't want to talk to him. But then now you 454 00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:09,680 Speaker 2: can see that on Fox News, like all the Trump 455 00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:13,520 Speaker 2: affiliated or pro Trump media, they are promoting this guy 456 00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:17,920 Speaker 2: all the time. And at the same time, Rizzopelae was 457 00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:20,560 Speaker 2: also on TV and he was on CBS and he 458 00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:25,560 Speaker 2: said that he's directly in touch with Trump administration. So 459 00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:30,080 Speaker 2: we don't know like what exactly. I mean, it's so 460 00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:33,960 Speaker 2: hard to understand what exactly the US is going to do. Yeah, 461 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:37,840 Speaker 2: they also announced that we're going to put more like 462 00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:42,200 Speaker 2: twenty five percent tariff on countries who work with her 463 00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:44,880 Speaker 2: on or trade with her on. And then the European 464 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:47,640 Speaker 2: Parliament also announced that we're going to ban all Iranian 465 00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:53,240 Speaker 2: diplomats from entering the European Parliament. Not made to begin with, 466 00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:56,480 Speaker 2: all these comments that are coming out, they are so vague, 467 00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:59,440 Speaker 2: and at the same time, there are calls from Germany, 468 00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:02,360 Speaker 2: France and I think Australia too that they were calling 469 00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:05,680 Speaker 2: on the citizens that are in Iran, like tourists or whatever, 470 00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:10,160 Speaker 2: to immediately leave Iran. Yeah, this is also something that 471 00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:13,560 Speaker 2: we don't know, like Trump is not somebody that you 472 00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:17,400 Speaker 2: could trust. Yeah, ask people and Jia. And at the 473 00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:20,520 Speaker 2: same time, sorry, this is also important. There was also 474 00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:25,520 Speaker 2: some news that the Iranian authorities in the Foreign ministry 475 00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:30,120 Speaker 2: were trying or they contacted some people from Trump administration 476 00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:35,400 Speaker 2: for negotiations, but then Trump said that we will not 477 00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:40,800 Speaker 2: negotiate anything. So this is all like all these contradictions 478 00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:44,200 Speaker 2: that Trump is just talking about, and he's denying that 479 00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:46,960 Speaker 2: the regime is killing people and people are just being 480 00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:49,200 Speaker 2: killed because it's too crowded. 481 00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:53,680 Speaker 1: And then you see mainly like tweeting that everyone out 482 00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:55,920 Speaker 1: in the street is a Trump supporter, right, which is like, 483 00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:59,520 Speaker 1: that's useful to him, that narrative is useful to him, 484 00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:02,920 Speaker 1: that these are American imperialist or American whatever puppets. 485 00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:08,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, of course that has been the regime's behavior forever. Yeah, 486 00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:14,080 Speaker 2: whenever something happens, they immediately blame it on America, Israel. 487 00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:18,240 Speaker 2: I don't know UK budget. It's good that you mentioned 488 00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:21,520 Speaker 2: what company was saying. In the first few days. He 489 00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:25,200 Speaker 2: said that, yeah, we hear you the people in bazaar, 490 00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:29,000 Speaker 2: and yeah, we hear you, sorry that this is going on, 491 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:32,680 Speaker 2: and things like that. But then he immediately said that 492 00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:36,080 Speaker 2: the people who are protesting, they are destroying everything and 493 00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:40,040 Speaker 2: we will deal with them in the harshest way. And 494 00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:45,680 Speaker 2: then the president of Iran, Pishkiki, and he also came 495 00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:48,280 Speaker 2: out and he said almost the same thing, and then 496 00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:51,280 Speaker 2: he started threatening people. And a few days after that, 497 00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:55,280 Speaker 2: the head of the judiciary, the Iranian judiciary came out 498 00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:59,320 Speaker 2: and said that like in a very very aggressive language, 499 00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:02,280 Speaker 2: he said that we will deal with you in the 500 00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:06,480 Speaker 2: worst ways possible, we will destroy you, and things like that. 501 00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:09,760 Speaker 2: It's he posted a lot of texts on his Twitter account. 502 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:14,080 Speaker 2: His name is Moscid. So yeah, there is also like 503 00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:20,360 Speaker 2: a huge online fightings between these politicians and so called 504 00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:25,080 Speaker 2: leaders that makes the situation even more complicated and hard 505 00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:25,800 Speaker 2: to understand. 506 00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:29,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think from a US perspective, like when America 507 00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:32,760 Speaker 1: invaded a Rock, right, they had a partner force in Kurdistan. 508 00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:35,880 Speaker 1: When America worked in Syria, they had a partner force 509 00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:40,680 Speaker 1: again in Western Kurdistan. Like, they don't really have that here, 510 00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:44,400 Speaker 1: Like this is not really a I mean, the payarch 511 00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:48,000 Speaker 1: is still on the American Foreign Terrorist Organization list. It's 512 00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:51,680 Speaker 1: not like that like American sort of partner force boots 513 00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:54,920 Speaker 1: on the ground like that that they had these other places. 514 00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:57,920 Speaker 1: Likely what they would do is just bomb stuff. That's 515 00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:00,480 Speaker 1: kind of the approach it most likely here in it. 516 00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:05,400 Speaker 1: Bombing alone is unlikely to remove the regime. 517 00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:10,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think bombing with is definitely not enough because 518 00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:15,120 Speaker 2: they bombed They tried the regime hardly last year, but 519 00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:18,200 Speaker 2: it is still there. Of course, it was the regime 520 00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:23,440 Speaker 2: got weaker, like it weakened really bad. But at the 521 00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:27,400 Speaker 2: same time, like I think, if there's gonna be something, 522 00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:30,200 Speaker 2: and if there's gonna be something like Syria or Iraq. 523 00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:34,160 Speaker 2: I think the Americans or the American government would possibly 524 00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:36,520 Speaker 2: work with the Kurdish groups even though they are on 525 00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:40,280 Speaker 2: the so called terror list, like you know, it happened 526 00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:44,560 Speaker 2: in Rojova, in in in Syria. That's how they they've 527 00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:47,920 Speaker 2: been working with the Kurdish groups even though they're related 528 00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:50,160 Speaker 2: to PKK and PKK is on the terror. 529 00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:53,480 Speaker 1: Or they removed them that they did with HTS, right, 530 00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:56,160 Speaker 1: and then suddenly these guys they've transformed. 531 00:33:56,200 --> 00:34:00,840 Speaker 2: Now, yeah, so this could also happen, but we don't 532 00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:05,120 Speaker 2: know because it's been years. It's been decades that the 533 00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:09,719 Speaker 2: US is always threatening Iran and then something happens, then 534 00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:13,680 Speaker 2: they do nothing and it's just there. Yeah. 535 00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:17,319 Speaker 1: It reinforces the legitimacy of both states to threaten each other, 536 00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:20,120 Speaker 1: right and see each other's adversaries, and to a degree 537 00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:22,839 Speaker 1: use that for domestic violence against their own citizens, right, 538 00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:27,120 Speaker 1: or you know, terrorism stuff. I guess finally we should 539 00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:29,719 Speaker 1: just talk about one other thing that mainly said, which 540 00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:34,520 Speaker 1: is like that American and Israeli shipping would become legitimate 541 00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:38,239 Speaker 1: targets if you thought the Americans were involved, right, Just 542 00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:41,440 Speaker 1: to explain, this is the possibilities of people if they're 543 00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:42,040 Speaker 1: not familiar. 544 00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:45,520 Speaker 2: Well, this is not a new thing, to be honest. 545 00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:49,520 Speaker 2: They've won this before and in the previous years many times, 546 00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:53,320 Speaker 2: and there were times that they attacked some US bases, 547 00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:57,440 Speaker 2: like the one in Iraq, it's called Al Assad or 548 00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:01,520 Speaker 2: something like that. They fortunately they attacked it a few 549 00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:05,319 Speaker 2: times I guess in the past few years. Yeah, this 550 00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:12,040 Speaker 2: is also really complicated because how can I explain the 551 00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:17,080 Speaker 2: regime always does these threats and it might not do 552 00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:20,799 Speaker 2: it at all. But at the same time, this is 553 00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:24,560 Speaker 2: also something that I think that if the regime falls, 554 00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:29,360 Speaker 2: and if it's the last moments, they would probably try 555 00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:33,240 Speaker 2: to do something to damage the region or to damage 556 00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:36,279 Speaker 2: the people as much as they can, and then they 557 00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:40,200 Speaker 2: would just give up on everything and just disappear. So 558 00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:44,399 Speaker 2: they could do that. But if I want to go 559 00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:47,400 Speaker 2: back to to last year, we also need to understand 560 00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:53,600 Speaker 2: that after the Twelve Day War, Israel also destroyed a 561 00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:59,920 Speaker 2: massive amount of Iranian military basis and all these buildings 562 00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:04,279 Speaker 2: and structures. But still nobody don't truly understand how much 563 00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:08,080 Speaker 2: has been destroyed. But the Iranian air force is really 564 00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:13,040 Speaker 2: really weak right now. I'm apparently completely destroyed, so Iran 565 00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:17,040 Speaker 2: is not as strong as before. So there could be 566 00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:20,840 Speaker 2: a possibility that Iran actually doesn't have the capability to 567 00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:25,840 Speaker 2: attack US BASS across the region anymore. Yeah, So this 568 00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:29,120 Speaker 2: could be also a possibility that they are just threatening there. 569 00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:32,640 Speaker 2: They really don't have anything left anymore, or their military 570 00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:34,960 Speaker 2: capabilities are completely down. 571 00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:38,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, or they'll do that sort of symbolic send a 572 00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:41,120 Speaker 1: half dozen shah He drones and let the Americans shoot 573 00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:43,200 Speaker 1: them down and they say, oh, wow, we tried, or 574 00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:46,920 Speaker 1: you know, we we attack them, even though you know, 575 00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:49,000 Speaker 1: most of the time they have hurt a couple of 576 00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:53,880 Speaker 1: American people with them, but relatively unsuccessful. I wonder like 577 00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:57,440 Speaker 1: this is obvious a situation that people will want to follow. 578 00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:01,600 Speaker 1: Things are developing very quickly, and good news, good reporting 579 00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:04,080 Speaker 1: on Iran is very hard to find in America. So 580 00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:07,080 Speaker 1: where would you suggest people look Either you know, your 581 00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:10,560 Speaker 1: own stuff, or at the sources you suggest people should 582 00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:10,960 Speaker 1: look to. 583 00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:14,640 Speaker 2: If I want to mention for obviously, I work with 584 00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:19,359 Speaker 2: a hangout organization. It's a trusted organization. People can follow them. 585 00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:24,080 Speaker 2: And there is also a journalist called Ali Jawan Mardi. 586 00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:28,120 Speaker 2: He is a supervisor at Voice of America. Kurdish, Persian 587 00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:32,880 Speaker 2: and Afghanistan, and these are like the sources that I 588 00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:36,719 Speaker 2: personally trust. There are other organizations such as Curtis and 589 00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:42,320 Speaker 2: Human Rights Network. There is also Iran Rights or Abdu 590 00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:45,799 Speaker 2: Rahan Buruman Center for Human Rights in Iran. There are 591 00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:51,120 Speaker 2: several organizations, human rights organizations that are constantly reporting and 592 00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:55,920 Speaker 2: they are trying to reflect what's happening, and there I 593 00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:59,880 Speaker 2: could say majority of them are honest and there are 594 00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:06,000 Speaker 2: not trying to push for a specific narrative, especially the Palabis, 595 00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:09,960 Speaker 2: because right now, if you check the media, the international media, 596 00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:14,400 Speaker 2: the Iranian media such as Iran International or BBC Persian 597 00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:17,960 Speaker 2: and all of these major medias even in the US, 598 00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:22,240 Speaker 2: they are pushing for the monarchist and they are completely 599 00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:26,800 Speaker 2: ignoring the other groups like, for example, the Kourdish people. 600 00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:30,680 Speaker 2: I said, I mentioned that there was this great and 601 00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:35,160 Speaker 2: big strike that happened in forty cities. It's a very 602 00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:39,280 Speaker 2: big social act, but barely anyone talked about it, Barely 603 00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:43,080 Speaker 2: anyone mentioned it. So I think it's for people, it's 604 00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:47,680 Speaker 2: better to follow human rights organizations and do not really 605 00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:50,920 Speaker 2: fall for the things that some media that are just 606 00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:56,640 Speaker 2: promoting a specific person because they're just taking away the truth. Yeah. 607 00:38:57,000 --> 00:38:59,759 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's a fantastic place to finish up. 608 00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:01,480 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for joining us. 609 00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:03,160 Speaker 1: If people want to follow you, do you have any 610 00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:05,960 Speaker 1: social media or pace people can find your work. 611 00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:10,200 Speaker 2: I have my personal page, but it's not really big. 612 00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:12,880 Speaker 2: I just post some slides recently, and my other page 613 00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:16,719 Speaker 2: curtis signing people. It got disabled unfortunately, but then I 614 00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:21,040 Speaker 2: started again. Uh, I'm just posting like some updates and 615 00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:24,920 Speaker 2: like slides about the important things that I find. I 616 00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:27,239 Speaker 2: can also put the links there. 617 00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:30,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll include them believe the podcast so people can 618 00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:30,480 Speaker 1: click on it. 619 00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:31,200 Speaker 2: Yeah. 620 00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:33,879 Speaker 1: Yeah, fantastic. Well, thank you so much for joining us 621 00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:35,600 Speaker 1: this evening. We really appreciate it. 622 00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:41,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you very much for having me again. Yeah, 623 00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:44,400 Speaker 2: it could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media. 624 00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:47,680 Speaker 2: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 625 00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:50,279 Speaker 2: cool Zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the 626 00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:54,279 Speaker 2: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. 627 00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:56,640 Speaker 2: You can now find sources for It Could Happen here, 628 00:39:56,640 --> 00:39:59,640 Speaker 2: listed directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.