1 00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:10,840 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the 2 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:15,040 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live weekdays at ten am 3 00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:17,520 Speaker 1: Eastern on Apple car Play and Android Auto with the 4 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:21,440 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, 5 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 1: or watch us live on YouTube. 6 00:00:25,079 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 2: Let's move on to another tech story. It is on 7 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 2: the Bloomberg Big Take Today and the title is the 8 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:34,200 Speaker 2: Apple Insiders in the running to succeed Tim Cook. Only 9 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:36,159 Speaker 2: one person you can talk to about anything to do 10 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:38,839 Speaker 2: with technology and Apple, and that's Mark German, Bloomberg, Chief 11 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:43,040 Speaker 2: correspondent on Bloomberg Technology joining us. It was so interesting 12 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:45,400 Speaker 2: when I read this because I don't think I have 13 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:48,560 Speaker 2: heard of anyone talking about succession with Tim Cook. But 14 00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:50,360 Speaker 2: he's been around for a very. 15 00:00:50,159 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 3: Long time. 16 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:53,600 Speaker 4: For having me. 17 00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:54,000 Speaker 5: That's right. 18 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 4: Cook has been around for over two decades at Apple now. 19 00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:01,200 Speaker 4: He was named CEO in twenty eleven and obviously taking 20 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:04,560 Speaker 4: over for Steve Jobs. He's turning sixty five next year. 21 00:01:04,600 --> 00:01:06,679 Speaker 4: He's one of the older CEOs in the S and 22 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:10,120 Speaker 4: P five hundred. They have a management team that's essentially 23 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:13,680 Speaker 4: been the same cast of characters for a decade plus 24 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 4: and they're in a precarious position right now, battling smartphone slowdowns, 25 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:21,600 Speaker 4: battling a shift of manufacturing out of China while trying 26 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:25,240 Speaker 4: to keep China still happy, regulatory concerns in both the 27 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:28,240 Speaker 4: US and the European Union. So there's a lot going on. 28 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:31,000 Speaker 4: But Tim Cook's getting up there, and it's time to 29 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:33,679 Speaker 4: start thinking about who comes after Cook. And so my 30 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 4: story this week takes a look at some of the options, 31 00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:38,479 Speaker 4: and I'll just give you the quick summary here. If 32 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:41,360 Speaker 4: he were to step down in the near term, he'd 33 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 4: likely be replaced by Jeff Williams. He's the chief operating officer. 34 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:48,200 Speaker 4: If he stays around about five years, as many expect, 35 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 4: including me, he'd likely to be replaced by John Turnis. 36 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:54,720 Speaker 4: He's the company's senior VP of hardware Engineering, and he's 37 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:57,560 Speaker 4: been playing an increasingly important role in product development and 38 00:01:57,600 --> 00:01:58,800 Speaker 4: other aspects of the company. 39 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 6: So, Mark, this was a great point that you made 40 00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:02,960 Speaker 6: in the story that you said, So Tim Cook, he's 41 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 6: sixty three older than a lot of his peers in 42 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:09,840 Speaker 6: the average Fortune five hundred C suite company. But it's 43 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:12,639 Speaker 6: interesting because there was a quote from somebody you know saying, 44 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:15,640 Speaker 6: you know, if Biden Trump could be president at eighty 45 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:17,880 Speaker 6: years old. Like, who's to say that Tim Cook can't 46 00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:21,120 Speaker 6: stay on as CEO or that you know, someone else 47 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:23,680 Speaker 6: of one of his peers who's maybe also in that 48 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 6: same kind of age range also couldn't be suitable for it. 49 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:31,639 Speaker 4: Yeah, he certainly, you know, could stick around, right. I mean, 50 00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:33,120 Speaker 4: if you can run the country at that age, you 51 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:36,119 Speaker 4: can run Apple at that age. But I don't think 52 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:39,360 Speaker 4: that's what Apple's board of directors or Tim Cook would want, 53 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:41,080 Speaker 4: to be honest. 54 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:41,880 Speaker 3: Why not? 55 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:46,760 Speaker 4: Well, I think there is a culture of passing the 56 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:50,960 Speaker 4: baton right in these corporations, and Tim Cook is going 57 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:52,840 Speaker 4: to want to give someone else a chance. 58 00:02:52,919 --> 00:02:53,079 Speaker 3: Right. 59 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:56,680 Speaker 4: It's a technology company, and you know, many people want 60 00:02:56,880 --> 00:03:00,480 Speaker 4: someone who you know, grew up in Silicon Valley, someone 61 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 4: who is newer and more innovative, to take over these 62 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:05,920 Speaker 4: tech companies. So I just don't think Tim Cook at 63 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:09,080 Speaker 4: eighty years old would want to run Apple or should 64 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:09,639 Speaker 4: run Apple. 65 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:12,520 Speaker 6: It doesn't sound like Tim Cook has talked a whole 66 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:14,800 Speaker 6: lot about this. You mentioned this was I thought this 67 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 6: was kind of weird that of all places where Tim 68 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:20,120 Speaker 6: Cook has shared the most about, you know, his life 69 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:23,200 Speaker 6: after Apple, has been on a podcast with Dua Lipa 70 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:24,240 Speaker 6: didn't see that coming. 71 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:24,919 Speaker 7: I don't know is she. 72 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:27,360 Speaker 6: Presently did not see that coming, Like, is this like 73 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:29,440 Speaker 6: the place to go if you're going to drop some 74 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:30,840 Speaker 6: secession news. 75 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:35,200 Speaker 4: Well, Tim Cook doesn't do many interviews, right, He does 76 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 4: a few a year, and you know, to be fair, 77 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:42,840 Speaker 4: du Alipa probably asked the best questions of any interview 78 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 4: that I've seen Tim Cook participate in a while, and 79 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 4: she brought up the succession question. Obviously, that was a 80 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:51,480 Speaker 4: little surprising that she brought that up because it doesn't 81 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:54,080 Speaker 4: seem central to, you know, her line of questions that 82 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 4: the rest of the podcast had. But she asked, and 83 00:03:56,800 --> 00:03:58,960 Speaker 4: Tim Cook gave his most in depth comments on the 84 00:03:59,000 --> 00:03:59,680 Speaker 4: subject to date. 85 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:04,360 Speaker 2: You mentioned a hardware engineering person that may be taking 86 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 2: over if it's longer than five years, Why not like 87 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 2: an ai Ish person. 88 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 4: Well, it's not necessarily because John Turnus is a harderre 89 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:18,279 Speaker 4: engineering person that he's going to be taking over the company. 90 00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:22,239 Speaker 4: It's mostly because he's in the right age range. He's 91 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 4: so important to the company. He has excellent managerial skills, 92 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:30,520 Speaker 4: He's extremely well respected inside the company and within the industry. 93 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:32,360 Speaker 4: So he has a lot of things going for him 94 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:35,839 Speaker 4: other than obviously very important being the hardware engineering person. 95 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 4: In terms of not an AI person, well, Apple's AI 96 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 4: person John Jane Andrea. Quite frankly, I don't expect him 97 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:45,800 Speaker 4: to remain at Apple for many more years, and I 98 00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:48,800 Speaker 4: certainly don't think that he's prime to run the whole company. 99 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:52,960 Speaker 4: He joined Apple in twenty nineteen. For all intentsive purposes, 100 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:56,040 Speaker 4: he's an outsider. When you're at Apple, you really want 101 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:58,080 Speaker 4: to gain steam there, especially if you're going to be 102 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 4: the next CEO. You really got to be there for 103 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:04,039 Speaker 4: two decades. It's a cult, right, You're not going to 104 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:07,039 Speaker 4: see someone be able to be CEO who comes in 105 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:09,360 Speaker 4: from the outside and their head of AI for all 106 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 4: intensive purposes, Like I said, is an outsider. 107 00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:14,720 Speaker 6: So when Steve Jobs was, you know, toward the end 108 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:18,200 Speaker 6: of his tenure, obviously he was battling cancer at the time. 109 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:21,280 Speaker 6: What kind of circumstances, you know, barring you know, a 110 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:23,560 Speaker 6: health crisis, which of course we hope that wouldn't happen, 111 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:26,440 Speaker 6: But what kind of circumstances do you think would be 112 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:28,960 Speaker 6: fitting for Cook to step down? 113 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:29,280 Speaker 3: Under? 114 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:33,600 Speaker 4: Well, Cook is going to run Apple as long as 115 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:34,680 Speaker 4: he wants to run Apple. 116 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:35,080 Speaker 5: Right. 117 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 4: Like I said, I don't think that's going to be 118 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 4: until eighty, but I wouldn't be surprised if he remains 119 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:43,520 Speaker 4: at Apple until seventy, right, And the circumstances would be 120 00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:45,680 Speaker 4: when he feels it's time to pass the baton. No 121 00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:48,680 Speaker 4: one is going to force him out. There's no retirement age, 122 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:51,720 Speaker 4: there's no requirement, So it's going to be as long 123 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:53,920 Speaker 4: as he wants to run the company, and so there's 124 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:56,240 Speaker 4: no circumstance that I think would push him out the door. 125 00:05:56,720 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 2: It also feels like managing Apple is also about and 126 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 2: managing geopolitical relationships with China, Like how do you think 127 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:07,920 Speaker 2: that kind of overlays? Or are I making too much of 128 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:10,760 Speaker 2: a big deal about it and it's actually a cyclical 129 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:12,279 Speaker 2: thing and I should chill out. 130 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:16,840 Speaker 4: Well, No, I think that's extremely central to the CEO role, right, 131 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:19,280 Speaker 4: And the thing that's going to test turnus the most 132 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:22,919 Speaker 4: is how do you operate on the world stage. Now, 133 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 4: there's something else to really understand here. The CEO of 134 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:32,160 Speaker 4: Google Sundor Prichai, the CEO of Microsoft Satanadella. They are 135 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:35,240 Speaker 4: both engineers who took on the CEO role, just like 136 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:39,039 Speaker 4: I expect turnis to eventually right. But both of those 137 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 4: people have an executive there that manage the relations for 138 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:46,160 Speaker 4: them right. Microsoft famously has a president whose name is 139 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:51,880 Speaker 4: Brad Smith. He handles all the international relations, right soundor Prachai. 140 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:57,279 Speaker 4: They made their CFO Ruth porat Right. She now manages 141 00:06:57,320 --> 00:07:01,120 Speaker 4: these international relations and these issues, So the CEO doesn't 142 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:05,440 Speaker 4: necessarily have to be the person who manages these relationships. 143 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 4: The reason Tim Cook does it at Apple is not 144 00:07:07,839 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 4: because he's the CEO. That's because he's the best at it, right, 145 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:13,320 Speaker 4: And different CEOs are going to have different skill sets, 146 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:16,679 Speaker 4: And being the CEO doesn't mean you have to do everything. 147 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:19,440 Speaker 4: It means you have to do a mix of things, 148 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 4: but have the ability to appoint the right person and 149 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 4: put the right people in position to do the things 150 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 4: that you're not good at. 151 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:30,160 Speaker 6: Last one for you here mark thirty seconds. Tim Cook's 152 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:33,920 Speaker 6: talking about maybe life after Apple being something more philanthropic. 153 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:35,800 Speaker 7: Any ideas on what that might be like. 154 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:39,560 Speaker 4: Well, obviously he generated a lot of money while being 155 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 4: CEO of Apple. My belief he's going to open up 156 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:48,400 Speaker 4: some sort of charitable foundation and make donations to you know, 157 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:52,160 Speaker 4: various places. I would say the best comp to This 158 00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:54,880 Speaker 4: would be something like what Mackenzie Scott has been doing 159 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 4: or Lorraine Powell jobs. Both have opened foundations over the past, 160 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:04,240 Speaker 4: you know, several years and make fill philanthropic donations on 161 00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:08,760 Speaker 4: a pretty targeted basis to specific entities constantly, and so 162 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:10,360 Speaker 4: I would expect the cook to do the same. 163 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:13,080 Speaker 2: Really appreciate it, Mark, I know what's early where you are. 164 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:15,200 Speaker 2: We appreciate you getting up for us. Mark German Bloomberg 165 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:18,120 Speaker 2: a chief correspondent on global technology, and you can read 166 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:21,400 Speaker 2: this great story on Bloomberg and also at Bloomberg dot 167 00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:23,880 Speaker 2: com Slash Big Take. Don't miss it. 168 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:29,559 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live 169 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:33,439 Speaker 1: weekdays at ten am Eastern on Applecarplay and Android Auto 170 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:36,319 Speaker 1: with a Bloomberg Business Act. You can also listen live 171 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:39,600 Speaker 1: on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station, Just 172 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:43,040 Speaker 1: say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 173 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:48,120 Speaker 2: We also have a really interesting move here with HubSpot 174 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:50,440 Speaker 2: and Alphabet. Do I know those things? 175 00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:52,120 Speaker 7: I don't really know. Those things don't have a man 176 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 7: deep saying, thankfully. 177 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:56,520 Speaker 2: Jos and so does Narash Patel. So manyep Singh is 178 00:08:56,559 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 2: Senior Technology Software Senior Technology analyst for Bloomberg Intelligence Naragepitel 179 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:04,600 Speaker 2: at Bloomberg Intelligence senior software analysts. Luckily they can have 180 00:09:04,679 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 2: us covered on all of this, Garage. What is HubSpot 181 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 2: and what does a Google slash alphabet want with it? 182 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:15,960 Speaker 5: Yeah? Hi, Alex and HubSpot they are playing directly into 183 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:20,480 Speaker 5: sales and marketing software. Small player, well below the scale 184 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:24,199 Speaker 5: of Salesforce and Adobe. They have about two and a 185 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:28,679 Speaker 5: half billion in revenue relative to a forty billion salesforce scale, 186 00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:32,640 Speaker 5: so much smaller. They target SMBs. Their average customers about 187 00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:36,640 Speaker 5: fifty one hundred employees. So they offer this type of platform, 188 00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:39,320 Speaker 5: which is about two hundred and ten thousand total customers 189 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:45,720 Speaker 5: to Google to maybe enhance some advertisement and leverage CRM 190 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 5: as a gateway for AI into software. For Google, this is. 191 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:51,520 Speaker 7: A pretty big potentially acquisition. 192 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:53,679 Speaker 6: So I want to bring in man Deep saying here, 193 00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:55,120 Speaker 6: who's with us in the studio today? 194 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:55,800 Speaker 7: Hey, Man Deep. 195 00:09:56,800 --> 00:09:59,720 Speaker 6: So this would be a company right now that's valued HubSpot, 196 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 6: that is around thirty billion dollars. 197 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:04,720 Speaker 7: So much talk of antitrust. 198 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:06,960 Speaker 6: Going on in the tech space, Is this something like 199 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 6: Google could really pull off? 200 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:13,120 Speaker 8: I mean they could in theory simply because Microsoft recently 201 00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:16,600 Speaker 8: bought Activision and that was close to seventy billion dollars, 202 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:20,800 Speaker 8: So you know, any acquisition here would not be north 203 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:23,720 Speaker 8: of thirty five to forty billion. So from that perspective, 204 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:27,360 Speaker 8: you know, given Google is not a player in application software, 205 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:31,439 Speaker 8: I think the antitrust argument is pretty weak in terms of, 206 00:10:31,559 --> 00:10:34,959 Speaker 8: you know, preventing them from acquire HubSpot and in terms 207 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:38,440 Speaker 8: of why they are looking to buy an asset like this. Look, 208 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:43,120 Speaker 8: Google's primary business remains ads. They're big on the you know, 209 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:46,520 Speaker 8: the foundational model side with generative AI. They have the 210 00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:52,880 Speaker 8: cloud infrastructure, so getting a data CRM play for training 211 00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:57,440 Speaker 8: your models is something that is quite forward looking. I 212 00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:00,040 Speaker 8: don't think the market fully grasps what they're trying to 213 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:04,000 Speaker 8: to do here, but it does make sense because in 214 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:06,480 Speaker 8: the end, if you have to deploy generative AI at 215 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:10,320 Speaker 8: the enterprise level, you need data and who better than 216 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:13,920 Speaker 8: a CRM company that has got data related to an 217 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:17,320 Speaker 8: enterprise system sales system. So it does make sense that 218 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:20,480 Speaker 8: they are trying to apply that kind of AI in 219 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:21,880 Speaker 8: the context of an enterprise. 220 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:24,240 Speaker 6: Well to your point of you know, maybe investors not 221 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:27,559 Speaker 6: quite grasping it yet. Google shares more or less unchanged 222 00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:30,160 Speaker 6: on the day actually slightly down, but you think this 223 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:32,920 Speaker 6: could be maybe a more positive longer term story for 224 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:33,319 Speaker 6: the stock. 225 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:37,920 Speaker 8: I mean, these companies don't make acquisitions for inorganic growth. 226 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:41,600 Speaker 8: It isn't about the revenue contribution from hubsqat. It is 227 00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:45,200 Speaker 8: more about how can they position themselves better at the 228 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:48,760 Speaker 8: enterprise level. And in the case of Alphabet, look, they've 229 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 8: never had an enterprise business before Google Cloud. So the 230 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:56,120 Speaker 8: fact that they have a thirty five billion dollars Google 231 00:11:56,160 --> 00:12:01,520 Speaker 8: Cloud infrastructure business, they can add this DRM asset and 232 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:04,760 Speaker 8: then the generative AI aspect is huge because that's where 233 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:06,640 Speaker 8: everyone is expecting all the growth. 234 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:07,960 Speaker 7: To be nearage. 235 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:10,560 Speaker 2: Do you like the numbers that we're looking at here, 236 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:12,600 Speaker 2: I mean, what do you think it would be worth 237 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:15,160 Speaker 2: if Alphabet had to take it over, had to want 238 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:15,880 Speaker 2: it to take it over. 239 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:21,520 Speaker 5: Yeah, this is HubSpot's landing at the high end of 240 00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:24,959 Speaker 5: app software evaluation today it's about twelve times on a 241 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:28,080 Speaker 5: forward sales. Some of the comparable piers in SMB space 242 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:32,320 Speaker 5: are half of that multiple. So you know, giving Google's 243 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:35,040 Speaker 5: balance sheet, they have the appetite to keep pushing the 244 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:40,200 Speaker 5: valuation to a higher level. The offset here not from 245 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:43,680 Speaker 5: the numbers but from a perspective of HubSpot management, this 246 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:46,160 Speaker 5: is really their baby. They're going to have a very 247 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:49,840 Speaker 5: hard time letting go. You have two active co founders 248 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:53,959 Speaker 5: and one is still very active in all product development. 249 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:56,920 Speaker 5: He's the current CTO, So there will be a little 250 00:12:56,960 --> 00:12:58,960 Speaker 5: resistance from the management perspective. 251 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:02,040 Speaker 2: So real quick on that could somebody else come in 252 00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:04,000 Speaker 2: and make another bid that would make them feel better? 253 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 5: They probably prefer a Google that's not in CRM software 254 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:16,120 Speaker 5: versus a salesporce Adobe s a P type of company 255 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:21,520 Speaker 5: where they would just be rolled up into an enterprise portfolio. 256 00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:23,719 Speaker 6: So if we were to think man deep of how 257 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:27,920 Speaker 6: something like this could hypothetically be financed, obviously cash not 258 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:30,679 Speaker 6: a problem for Google. You think this is something they 259 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:33,480 Speaker 6: would buy and uh, you know, just with cash on 260 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:36,559 Speaker 6: the balance sheet, would go to a debt or equity market. 261 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:41,400 Speaker 8: I mean, look if being bore shareholder friendly recently with 262 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:45,559 Speaker 8: the announcement of a dividend, so clearly they are making 263 00:13:45,679 --> 00:13:48,920 Speaker 8: changes to their capital structure. I wouldn't be surprised if 264 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:51,480 Speaker 8: they go to the bond market to finance such a 265 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:55,319 Speaker 8: big acquisition with these rates. Yeah, but I mean Google 266 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:56,200 Speaker 8: is like triple A. 267 00:13:56,600 --> 00:14:01,360 Speaker 7: Yeah, probably basically cheaper than the government can. 268 00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:04,559 Speaker 8: Yeah, so I don't think financing is an issue, but 269 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:08,360 Speaker 8: the regulatory scrutiny is going to come no matter, you know, 270 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:11,640 Speaker 8: I whether they compete in that same space or not, 271 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:15,560 Speaker 8: given the size of a potential deal. But I think 272 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:19,280 Speaker 8: they can convince the regulators that this deal makes sense 273 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:19,640 Speaker 8: for them. 274 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:21,880 Speaker 2: Can we go to Roadblocks for a second, because maybe 275 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 2: you also cover this. So my knowledge of Roadblocks is this. 276 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:26,880 Speaker 2: My daughter comes in in the morning on Saturday and Sunday, 277 00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:30,080 Speaker 2: takes my phone and plays Roadblocks on my phone Warrior cats. 278 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 3: That's all I know. 279 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:32,680 Speaker 7: I don't really know what that means. 280 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:35,160 Speaker 2: She knows to talk to anyone online and she basically 281 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:37,160 Speaker 2: makes cats fight each other and. 282 00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:40,240 Speaker 7: Get animals and you know, more than based up. 283 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:42,120 Speaker 2: That's all I know what's going on. 284 00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 3: But she plays a lot. 285 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:45,600 Speaker 8: And I bet you she's using your credit card to 286 00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:49,080 Speaker 8: make those Roadblocks purchases. 287 00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:51,720 Speaker 7: Alex Face, what are you saying? 288 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:53,920 Speaker 2: I think Roadblocks wants her to do that. 289 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:55,000 Speaker 7: But why is the stockdown like. 290 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:55,600 Speaker 2: Twenty three percent? 291 00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:58,920 Speaker 8: Well so in this case, I mean engagement is what 292 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:01,640 Speaker 8: drives all these plats and the fact that we are 293 00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:05,560 Speaker 8: going into summer months, it's kind of a natural to 294 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 8: see some seasonality in terms of engagement coming down. So 295 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:13,960 Speaker 8: ours spent were three percent below consensus expectations, even though 296 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:16,840 Speaker 8: the user growth was in line with consensus twenty percent 297 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:19,640 Speaker 8: user growth. And to my mind, the long term story 298 00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 8: is still intact. They have the content to drive you know, 299 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:26,800 Speaker 8: kids of that age, and they have the engagement. There 300 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:29,600 Speaker 8: will always be seasonality, and you know, once in a 301 00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:33,040 Speaker 8: while the stock will react like this because the expectations 302 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:35,720 Speaker 8: were higher, but there was nothing on the call that 303 00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:39,760 Speaker 8: suggested they're losing their engagement to social media. Yeah, and 304 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:42,880 Speaker 8: so I think this is the case of market being 305 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:45,320 Speaker 8: in that mood where if it's not a beat and 306 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:47,840 Speaker 8: a big raise, your stock is going to get hit. 307 00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:50,360 Speaker 8: And you're seeing that with the robots tough crowd. 308 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:53,840 Speaker 6: Yeah, you know, this is something that I wanted to 309 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:57,640 Speaker 6: come back to. We I covered the economy in my 310 00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:00,880 Speaker 6: regular job here at Bloomberg, and we actually we're talking 311 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:03,400 Speaker 6: to the lead economists of Visa not too long ago, 312 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:06,720 Speaker 6: and they had some great research out about how the 313 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:10,880 Speaker 6: gaming economy has really added like so much in terms 314 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 6: of consumption just by virtue of so many people being 315 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:17,320 Speaker 6: on computers being exposed to so many more ads and 316 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 6: buying more things, not just within the game, but you 317 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:23,080 Speaker 6: know in the broader internet at large, and I don't know, 318 00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:25,520 Speaker 6: it's do you like see the connection with that as 319 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:27,800 Speaker 6: well in this gaming world and how that's also just 320 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:29,680 Speaker 6: boosting aggregate consumption. 321 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:33,800 Speaker 8: I mean, Roadblocks did call out virtual shopping being a 322 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:37,080 Speaker 8: potential driver for twenty twenty five. So even though no 323 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:40,320 Speaker 8: one talks about metaverse now, the fact that you know, 324 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:43,960 Speaker 8: companies are still talking about virtual storefronts and the fact 325 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:48,560 Speaker 8: that you can do shopping on these kind of platforms 326 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:52,280 Speaker 8: down the line goes to show that gaming is something 327 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:56,400 Speaker 8: that everyone fields contributes to this AI wave as well 328 00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:59,640 Speaker 8: as you know, largely e commerce connection in terms of 329 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 8: you know, the storefronts and how the behavior could change 330 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:03,320 Speaker 8: down the line. 331 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:05,240 Speaker 7: What are they sell in there? What can you buy 332 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:05,800 Speaker 7: on that shop? 333 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:08,960 Speaker 8: I mean, like that was the whole promise of metawverse, 334 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:12,399 Speaker 8: that you can replicate malls in the metaverse. And so 335 00:17:12,600 --> 00:17:15,760 Speaker 8: if I'm a Walmart that is setting up a grocery 336 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:18,359 Speaker 8: or you know, their shop in that kind of a 337 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:22,640 Speaker 8: virtual storefront, I can drive that kind of experience where 338 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:25,080 Speaker 8: people feel they are inside them all when they're sitting 339 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:26,960 Speaker 8: in front of a computer and they can do a 340 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:30,000 Speaker 8: lot of the shopping, which again was the promise of Meatowors. 341 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 8: There were probably three four years too early and it 342 00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:33,119 Speaker 8: will take time to build that. 343 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:35,280 Speaker 2: All right, Naraj, I know you're still here. Sorry, we 344 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:37,399 Speaker 2: need to get more info on roadblocks, basically, so I 345 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:39,919 Speaker 2: understand what it actually is. My daughter's playing it. What 346 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:42,560 Speaker 2: else are you working on right now in your sphere? 347 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 5: I think there's a big dichotomy with the valuations that 348 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:51,919 Speaker 5: are occurring in software. You're seeing the SMB companies like 349 00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:55,480 Speaker 5: a HubSpot, which is a little bit moving against the wave. 350 00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:58,560 Speaker 5: The rest of the companies are getting hit because small 351 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:02,359 Speaker 5: medium business spending is quite constrained, and you're seeing a 352 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:07,159 Speaker 5: significant downward push on valuation multiples for other companies like 353 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:09,960 Speaker 5: a Claviow, like a pay Call Pay loss a, a 354 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:12,040 Speaker 5: whole host of companies and app software. 355 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:14,600 Speaker 2: All right, guys, I really appreciate it, Thank you so much. 356 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:17,639 Speaker 2: Can't get any more and can't get better than this. 357 00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:21,240 Speaker 2: You're at Narajhpatel Bloomberg Intelligence senior software analysts joining us 358 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:24,040 Speaker 2: at man Deep Singh. He is Bloomberg Intelligence a senior 359 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:26,360 Speaker 2: technology analyst. 360 00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:32,240 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast. Catch us Live 361 00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:35,400 Speaker 1: weekdays at ten am Eastern on Apple card playing Android 362 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:38,520 Speaker 1: Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever 363 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:42,400 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube. 364 00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:45,080 Speaker 7: Just get back to Warner Brothers Discovery. 365 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:46,680 Speaker 2: That stock us out by about four tens of one 366 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:49,320 Speaker 2: percent as Nor was talking about the company reporting sales 367 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:53,440 Speaker 2: and profit that fell short analyst expectations. Shocker lower TV 368 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:57,040 Speaker 2: ad sales plus poor performance of video games. So no 369 00:18:57,080 --> 00:18:59,240 Speaker 2: one better to talk to than KEITHR. Mangana than Bloomberg 370 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:02,520 Speaker 2: Intelligence and Animal on US media. Why is the stock 371 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:03,680 Speaker 2: up on the earnings? 372 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:07,439 Speaker 9: Yeah, it was a little bit of a mixed bag 373 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:12,439 Speaker 9: Alex so definitely ebitdah under pressure as always TV advertising, 374 00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:14,639 Speaker 9: as you just pointed out, But they did have some 375 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:17,040 Speaker 9: bright spots and I think that's why we're seeing a 376 00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:19,080 Speaker 9: little bit of enthusiasm here. So one thing that they 377 00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:22,000 Speaker 9: did mention was that, you know, Warner Brothers in Discovery. 378 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:24,760 Speaker 9: It's obviously a merger. They've extracted so far about four 379 00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:28,280 Speaker 9: billion dollars in cost savings. They are now projecting an 380 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:31,680 Speaker 9: extra one billion dollars in synergies so that I think 381 00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:34,240 Speaker 9: is something that you know, the street is definitely hopeful about. 382 00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:35,840 Speaker 3: And then you have the streaming business. 383 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 9: Remember this is the HBO business that has now been 384 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:43,400 Speaker 9: rebranded as Max and we're seeing some some green shoots here, 385 00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:46,159 Speaker 9: so you know, subscriber growth had kind of hit a wall, 386 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:49,439 Speaker 9: but again we're seeing some reinviegration here. So they had 387 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:51,720 Speaker 9: about two million subscriber ads and they have a lot 388 00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:53,960 Speaker 9: more momentum going forward because we're going to see a 389 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:56,440 Speaker 9: lot of overseas market launches. 390 00:19:56,840 --> 00:19:58,480 Speaker 3: But that's not real. The real story. 391 00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:01,200 Speaker 9: The real stories that the segment is actually profitable, and 392 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:03,480 Speaker 9: that is what has become the new gauge across the 393 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:06,360 Speaker 9: whole streaming landscape whether the streaming business can be profitable, 394 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:09,240 Speaker 9: and obviously Warner Brothers showing us how it's done. 395 00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:12,080 Speaker 6: I honestly, you know, I will admit I'm not part 396 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:14,480 Speaker 6: of the gaming worlds, but I was under the impression 397 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:19,240 Speaker 6: that this is a pretty strong segment of consumer spending, 398 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:21,800 Speaker 6: has a lot of people who are very active in 399 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:24,040 Speaker 6: the gaming world, and it seems like for Warner Brothers 400 00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:26,960 Speaker 6: at least, this came down to one game in particular. 401 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:30,159 Speaker 6: How would you categorize that segment of the business. 402 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:30,520 Speaker 5: Keep that. 403 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:35,040 Speaker 9: Yeah, So Warner Brothers, I mean not necessarily known for 404 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:37,440 Speaker 9: you know, their video games in general, but they did 405 00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:42,280 Speaker 9: have a huge blowout hit last year with Hogwatts Legacy 406 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:46,560 Speaker 9: that became one of the biggest selling games throughout twenty. 407 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:47,879 Speaker 3: Twenty three and Harry Potter One. 408 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:51,360 Speaker 9: Harry Potter One just huge, And so when they were 409 00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:53,680 Speaker 9: comping this year, obviously they knew coming into this quarter 410 00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:55,439 Speaker 9: that it was going to be you know, tough comps. 411 00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:57,879 Speaker 9: But then they also had their release from this quarter, 412 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:00,320 Speaker 9: which was you know, Suicide Squad, which really did not 413 00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:02,439 Speaker 9: live up to expectations at all, and then you have 414 00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 9: obviously that Harry Potter effect, and that just didn't bode 415 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:09,000 Speaker 9: well for them for that studio slash gaming segment. 416 00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:13,080 Speaker 2: The idea, though, right, is that the streaming part is 417 00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:15,160 Speaker 2: going to wind up doing better and that will eventually 418 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:19,520 Speaker 2: offset slowing TV AD sales. Right is where are they 419 00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:21,919 Speaker 2: on that sort of balance beam. 420 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:24,520 Speaker 9: Yeah, that's such a great point, Alex, I mean that's 421 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:27,080 Speaker 9: the hope, right, That's what everybody's hoping for that this 422 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:30,000 Speaker 9: transition would eventually pay off and at some point like 423 00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:33,679 Speaker 9: the streaming service would be better or at least equal to, 424 00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:35,040 Speaker 9: if not better than, linear TV. 425 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:35,600 Speaker 3: But I don't know. 426 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:37,719 Speaker 9: I don't think it's actually going to happen, or it's 427 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:40,280 Speaker 9: going to take a very very long time. Obviously, we've 428 00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:43,160 Speaker 9: seen kind of Netflix set the stage here for everybody else. 429 00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:45,600 Speaker 9: This year, we're going to see them throughout something like 430 00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:47,880 Speaker 9: ten billion dollars in profit. So we know it can 431 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:51,520 Speaker 9: be done. I'm just not sure if who can do it, 432 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:53,760 Speaker 9: first of all, and if many people can or many 433 00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:57,119 Speaker 9: streamers can kind of replicate that success, because if you 434 00:21:57,200 --> 00:21:59,720 Speaker 9: kind of look at even the Max business, yes, it's 435 00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:02,000 Speaker 9: good that they were able to show, you know, throughout 436 00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:05,160 Speaker 9: kind of ninety million dollars in profits, but you're taking 437 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:09,960 Speaker 9: a business that was originally generating something like two billion 438 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:12,919 Speaker 9: dollars in Ibada every year, and so you know, you 439 00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:15,240 Speaker 9: kind of then take it from two billion to you know, 440 00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:16,640 Speaker 9: even if it's going to be two hundred or three 441 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:19,640 Speaker 9: hundred million, that's just a fraction of what it was generating. 442 00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:22,040 Speaker 9: And that's kind of the whole story in media right now. 443 00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:25,560 Speaker 9: Right you're treating the TV dollars for kind of these 444 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:29,000 Speaker 9: these digital pennies, and so it does become a game 445 00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:31,920 Speaker 9: of scale and that's where kind of this whole bundling 446 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:34,840 Speaker 9: concept comes in, because that helps you kind of not 447 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:37,840 Speaker 9: only get more subscribers, but it helps you reduce churn, 448 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:40,359 Speaker 9: which is really the biggest problem for streaming right now. 449 00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:44,240 Speaker 6: Another big story in media is obviously just cutting costs, 450 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:47,440 Speaker 6: right and Warner Brothers has done quite a bit of 451 00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:49,879 Speaker 6: layoffs in the past year and it's and we had 452 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:53,679 Speaker 6: some additional Bloomberg reporting out this morning saying that CEO 453 00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:57,160 Speaker 6: David Zaslov is looking to find more opportunities to cut 454 00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:59,280 Speaker 6: costs and that more layoffs could be part of that. 455 00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:02,159 Speaker 6: Is that something Eitha that you're worried about. 456 00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:05,840 Speaker 9: I mean, yeah, this has kind of again been a 457 00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:08,439 Speaker 9: major thing that that Warner Brothers has been very good at, 458 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:09,160 Speaker 9: you know, cutting costs. 459 00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:10,720 Speaker 3: I mean they did this originally with. 460 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:13,960 Speaker 9: Their first deal, which was the Discovery Script's deal, where 461 00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:15,959 Speaker 9: they again they went in and they eliminated a lot 462 00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:18,080 Speaker 9: of those extraneous costs. They're really very very good in 463 00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:21,240 Speaker 9: terms of implementing you know, cost savings and synergies. And 464 00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:24,800 Speaker 9: again they've kind of, uh, you know, reproduced that same 465 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:27,560 Speaker 9: playbook with the Warner Brothers Discovery mergers. 466 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:29,320 Speaker 3: The thing with cost cutting. 467 00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:32,120 Speaker 9: Is it's it's it's very tricky, you know, because yes, 468 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:35,960 Speaker 9: you you can cut out a lot of extra duplicative costs, 469 00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:38,600 Speaker 9: especially in kind of streaming businesses when you're combining two 470 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:41,480 Speaker 9: streaming platforms, but you don't want to cut too much. 471 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:44,160 Speaker 9: You don't want to underinvest in content. And I think 472 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:46,560 Speaker 9: what they're going to do here is it's not so 473 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:48,919 Speaker 9: much about the content side of things. It's more about 474 00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:52,680 Speaker 9: marketing and selling expenses. And that's again where you know 475 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:54,840 Speaker 9: you kind of yes, they're going to cut that, but 476 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:58,080 Speaker 9: that's again where you see how the bundling aspect could 477 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:00,840 Speaker 9: really help them, because that helps them save a lot 478 00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:03,080 Speaker 9: of those marketing and advertising expenses. 479 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:04,520 Speaker 3: Before we let you. 480 00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:09,040 Speaker 2: Go, what the whole like Disney plus Hulu and Max together. 481 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:10,200 Speaker 7: I have a couple questions. 482 00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:12,240 Speaker 2: One how much is gonna cost? 483 00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:12,760 Speaker 3: Two? 484 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:14,360 Speaker 7: How much should it cost? Three? 485 00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:16,240 Speaker 2: Will they tell me that that's an option? Or am 486 00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:18,639 Speaker 2: I gonna weirdly double pay for a while? And four 487 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:20,119 Speaker 2: I forgot the fourth. 488 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:24,520 Speaker 3: All great questions, All great questions. 489 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:26,840 Speaker 6: Excellent trifecta with an optional plus one. 490 00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:28,280 Speaker 2: There was a plus one somewhere. 491 00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:30,159 Speaker 7: It'll come to me in my brilliance. 492 00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:34,399 Speaker 9: So Alex, what we're paying right now, if you want 493 00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:37,639 Speaker 9: just the just Hulu and Disney Plus without ads is 494 00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:40,639 Speaker 9: around twenty dollars on the nose, and if you're taking 495 00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:43,520 Speaker 9: the Max product without ads, that's sixteen dollars, So combine 496 00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:46,080 Speaker 9: together that would be thirty six dollars. Now, again they 497 00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:48,840 Speaker 9: haven't said anything on pricing yet, so this is just 498 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:51,160 Speaker 9: me speculating, but I would think they would when they're 499 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:53,720 Speaker 9: kind of combining those three together, it would probably be 500 00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:55,359 Speaker 9: at maybe a thirty dollars or. 501 00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:57,439 Speaker 3: A sub thirty dollars. 502 00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:59,520 Speaker 9: Price point to kind of make it really attractive in 503 00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:01,920 Speaker 9: terms of will they you know, will you double bay? 504 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:02,560 Speaker 3: I don't think so. 505 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:05,120 Speaker 9: I think if you're a Disney Plus, existing Disney Plus 506 00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:07,240 Speaker 9: or Hulu subscriber, you'll just have kind of an option 507 00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:09,760 Speaker 9: when you log in saying you know this, this Max 508 00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:11,400 Speaker 9: is available to you, and do you kind of want 509 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:12,600 Speaker 9: to switch your subscription now? 510 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:13,840 Speaker 3: That's how I think they're going to do it. 511 00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:19,080 Speaker 9: And conversely, if you're a MAX subscriber, I forgot your 512 00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:20,840 Speaker 9: third question me too, it. 513 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:23,560 Speaker 2: Was much of a cause will they tell me about it? 514 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:26,360 Speaker 7: And are you gonna end up double paying? I think 515 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:27,080 Speaker 7: they got them all. 516 00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:29,960 Speaker 2: I did remember my fourth one, the fourth one. Oh gosh, 517 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:32,679 Speaker 2: it went away again. Oh no, okay, I got a 518 00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:35,679 Speaker 2: backup on cable Cube ahead. Is this just about like 519 00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:38,000 Speaker 2: cable Is this basically what I did with like Verizon, 520 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:39,920 Speaker 2: but now I'm going to do it on my streaming TV. 521 00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:44,560 Speaker 9: It's very much the same idea. I mean, we're going 522 00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:46,960 Speaker 9: back to bundling again. And I think what all of 523 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:49,880 Speaker 9: these services are trying to do. Alex and Mali's they're 524 00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:52,840 Speaker 9: just trying to now create this super bundle. Remember, Disney 525 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:56,840 Speaker 9: and Warner have another sports JV a Sports a bundle 526 00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:59,159 Speaker 9: that's going to come out in conjunction with Fox a 527 00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:02,320 Speaker 9: little bit later. So now they have this this Disney 528 00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:04,879 Speaker 9: Max bundle. I think eventually they're going to you know, 529 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:08,080 Speaker 9: ask you to maybe have that extra super super bundle 530 00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:12,120 Speaker 9: along with you know, the sports, the sports option as well. 531 00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:14,600 Speaker 9: So it's really kind of them trying to keep you 532 00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:16,520 Speaker 9: on their platforms as much as possible. 533 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:18,480 Speaker 7: And isn't that just the name of the game. 534 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:20,560 Speaker 6: We do that here at Bloomberg too, you know, always 535 00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:21,960 Speaker 6: trying to keep people on the terminal. 536 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:24,600 Speaker 7: Oh yeah, oh yeah, the all day log. So we're 537 00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:25,440 Speaker 7: guilty of it. Two. 538 00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:28,160 Speaker 2: We understand where that goes. Keitha, thanks a lot, thanks 539 00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:31,000 Speaker 2: for playing with us, keithing wrong and not and Bloomberg Intelligence, 540 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:34,760 Speaker 2: as senior media analyst joins us, Okay, so you're getting 541 00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:35,479 Speaker 2: a couch delivered. 542 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:35,879 Speaker 3: I get that. 543 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:37,439 Speaker 2: Are you gonna sit on the couch and watch like 544 00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:38,439 Speaker 2: all the streaming things? 545 00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:40,680 Speaker 6: I guess I have to decide which ones I'm going 546 00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:42,720 Speaker 6: to be, you know, signing up for me? And I 547 00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:45,120 Speaker 6: do have the TV already in some of these subscriptions, 548 00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:47,320 Speaker 6: but I was under the impression, like I know, I've 549 00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:50,919 Speaker 6: got Hulu Netflix. Those are each under ten dollars a 550 00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:53,359 Speaker 6: month if you have the version with ads. These ones 551 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:57,840 Speaker 6: up here, we're talking like sixteen to twenty. Well you 552 00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:00,000 Speaker 6: saw my face, right, So that's why I bring it up. 553 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:01,639 Speaker 2: As Githa is like rolling off the numbers of how 554 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:03,800 Speaker 2: much people pay. My mouth keeps dropping and I'm like, 555 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:06,479 Speaker 2: I paid that much for these things. That's the thing 556 00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:08,440 Speaker 2: is you say yes and you don't actually know where 557 00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:09,880 Speaker 2: you're paying, and if you go through, you're like, wait, 558 00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:11,199 Speaker 2: I'm paying one hundred bucks for all this? 559 00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:12,560 Speaker 7: Why did I cut cable to people? 560 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:15,240 Speaker 4: It is YouTube YouTube. 561 00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:18,320 Speaker 2: I don't do no Hello. We know I watch Survivor, 562 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:20,200 Speaker 2: so I need that. And then I have a child 563 00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:22,440 Speaker 2: and she needs options for when mommy needs to sleep. 564 00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:26,440 Speaker 7: She also needs warrior cats, which she could be knocking 565 00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:29,000 Speaker 7: up my gout the card on that too. Things I 566 00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:29,560 Speaker 7: am learning. 567 00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:35,080 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live 568 00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:38,200 Speaker 1: weekdays at ten am Eastern on Apple card Play and 569 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:41,120 Speaker 1: Android Auto with a Bloomberg Business at You can also 570 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:44,680 Speaker 1: listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station, 571 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:51,840 Speaker 1: Just Say Alexa Play. Bloomberg eleven thirty. 572 00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:52,520 Speaker 2: With Molly Smith Paulsweeni is out today. This is Bloomberg 573 00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:54,920 Speaker 2: Intelligence Radio. We cover all the top news for you 574 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:57,840 Speaker 2: through our lens of Bloomberg Intelligence analysts. They cover two 575 00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:01,640 Speaker 2: thousand companies and one hundred and thirty into strees worldwide. 576 00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:04,639 Speaker 2: Here's what's so interesting to me, and I mean this 577 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:08,000 Speaker 2: is nothing new, but sort of the two speed economy 578 00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:11,080 Speaker 2: that I feel like we keep seeing in that certain 579 00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:13,399 Speaker 2: areas of the economy, the lower income spend more on 580 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:15,760 Speaker 2: credit cards by now, pay later, n if I be 581 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:21,440 Speaker 2: the small business sentiment all weaker, but companies, big companies, 582 00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:27,040 Speaker 2: good earnings, earnings beats profit continues to grow, buybacks happening. Basically, 583 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:27,840 Speaker 2: the rich get richer in. 584 00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:29,879 Speaker 7: The por getpor It's sad, isn't it. Yeah? 585 00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:31,800 Speaker 6: We see that too in like some of the jobs 586 00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:35,600 Speaker 6: numbers that are broken out by firm size, and we 587 00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:37,960 Speaker 6: see that like way more of the hiring is also 588 00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:41,240 Speaker 6: being done at firms that have at least five hundred employees. 589 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:43,239 Speaker 6: So interesting, great to be in a building like this, 590 00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:46,920 Speaker 6: you know, but for much of America, what is it? 591 00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:49,040 Speaker 7: Like half of America works for a small business? 592 00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:49,360 Speaker 3: Right? 593 00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:50,360 Speaker 7: Is this something like that? 594 00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:53,160 Speaker 2: And then so even if you have wages keeping pace 595 00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:57,240 Speaker 2: with inflation, if if big if, that's still sort of 596 00:28:57,280 --> 00:28:59,680 Speaker 2: the cloud that goes a long way to explaining the 597 00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:04,360 Speaker 2: cloud that we feel, even if we don't see it. Yeah, yeah, okay, 598 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:06,479 Speaker 2: clouds for TikTok, Yeah, go ahead. 599 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:08,920 Speaker 7: That's just kind of sad. I hope we want to. 600 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:10,760 Speaker 7: I hope we talk about something more positive. 601 00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:13,360 Speaker 6: I don't know what today is somebody who covers the economy, 602 00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:16,120 Speaker 6: you know, it's just I'm looking for the happier news. 603 00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:17,040 Speaker 3: I don't feel it. 604 00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:18,840 Speaker 7: Maybe Barry has it. You think he does. 605 00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:20,680 Speaker 2: I don't think he has it? Ok, Barry, do you 606 00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:22,080 Speaker 2: have happier news right now. 607 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:25,640 Speaker 10: Well, the silver lining and he does he did get that. 608 00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:29,560 Speaker 6: Barry Ridholts right here, founder of Ritsults Wealth Management, host 609 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:30,480 Speaker 6: of Masters and Business. 610 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:32,120 Speaker 7: Take it away, Barry. What's the good news? 611 00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:37,680 Speaker 10: So the silver lining is whenever the economy sees a 612 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:42,840 Speaker 10: lot of these scams and frauds bubbling up from especially 613 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:46,880 Speaker 10: from social media and the Internet, it's usually because the 614 00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:50,760 Speaker 10: economy is so strong and people have so much money 615 00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:56,400 Speaker 10: that it attracts the fraudsters. I'm not saying the fraudsters 616 00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:59,080 Speaker 10: disappeared in the middle of eight o nine, but you 617 00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:01,560 Speaker 10: really didn't. I see a lot of them other than 618 00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:05,360 Speaker 10: the ones who were revealed by the financial crisis, like 619 00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:09,960 Speaker 10: Bernie Madoff couldn't perpetrate his fraud anymore because you couldn't 620 00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:13,960 Speaker 10: make up numbers anymore. But you know, it's a unfortunate 621 00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:17,360 Speaker 10: side effect of a lot of wealth, is you know 622 00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:20,320 Speaker 10: why do we people rob banks because that's where the 623 00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:20,760 Speaker 10: money is. 624 00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:24,880 Speaker 2: I was talking about someone yesterday about bitcoin too, and 625 00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:27,600 Speaker 2: just sort of having going down the scale in sort 626 00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:29,680 Speaker 2: of the bitcoin products that are being offered, in the 627 00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:32,280 Speaker 2: crypto products that are being offered, and the question marks 628 00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:33,520 Speaker 2: around it as there's just so much. 629 00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:35,640 Speaker 3: Money slashing around. I don't know. 630 00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:37,720 Speaker 2: You're going to relate this to TikTok, aren't you, because 631 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:39,240 Speaker 2: that's part of where we're getting a lot of it 632 00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:41,200 Speaker 2: our news and information. Right, What do you make of 633 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:44,120 Speaker 2: a whole byte Dance is now suing the US government 634 00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:46,520 Speaker 2: for forcing a sale of TikTok, but then you still have, 635 00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:50,080 Speaker 2: say Steve minus into TikTok in some way. What are 636 00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:50,840 Speaker 2: you making of all this? 637 00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:55,800 Speaker 10: Well, let's give Byteedance credit for what they do better 638 00:30:55,920 --> 00:31:01,200 Speaker 10: than either Twitter or Instagram or Facebook, which is they 639 00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:05,280 Speaker 10: have created an algorithm that knows exactly how to tickle 640 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:09,840 Speaker 10: your dopamine receptors, and you know, once you fail, your 641 00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:13,600 Speaker 10: down a rabbit hole of a particular type. On TikTok. 642 00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:17,200 Speaker 10: My wife, it's all about rescue dogs on TikTok, and 643 00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:22,600 Speaker 10: it's just endlessly charming videos about dogs that have been saved. 644 00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:28,120 Speaker 10: But there's a darker side, whether it's investing or day training, 645 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:32,200 Speaker 10: or taxes or go down the list. You know, some 646 00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:35,560 Speaker 10: of the crypto scams, you can earn twenty percent a 647 00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:40,239 Speaker 10: year back when the tax the risk free rate on 648 00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:42,760 Speaker 10: the tenure was one and a half percent and here's 649 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:44,719 Speaker 10: what you do. You max out your credit cards, you 650 00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:48,200 Speaker 10: go buy a house. You put this money, earn twenty percent, 651 00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:50,480 Speaker 10: you use that to pay off the house, and hey, 652 00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:52,400 Speaker 10: in seven years you own this house. And of course 653 00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:56,920 Speaker 10: you're nothing like That sort of stuff is incredibly irresponsible, 654 00:31:57,320 --> 00:31:58,800 Speaker 10: and it's all over TikTok. 655 00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:01,800 Speaker 6: How so i've I mean, I'm someone who admittedly is 656 00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:04,840 Speaker 6: not on TikTok, but tell me what kind of posts 657 00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:06,440 Speaker 6: that would come across in. 658 00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:11,719 Speaker 10: So for people who are not on TikTok what like, 659 00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:14,400 Speaker 10: I'm not a big TikTok user. I tend to be 660 00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:17,720 Speaker 10: more of a Twitter user. But one of my favorite 661 00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:21,760 Speaker 10: follows on Twitter is TikTok Investors, And this is a 662 00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:25,360 Speaker 10: person who is in the financial industry but not authorized 663 00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:28,160 Speaker 10: to speak on behalf of their employer, so they have 664 00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:31,360 Speaker 10: to be anonymous. And they've been curating some of the 665 00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:38,120 Speaker 10: most outrageous money losing videos from the experts from the 666 00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:42,440 Speaker 10: finfluencers at TikTok, and as I wrote in a note 667 00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:46,560 Speaker 10: this morning, they range from merely wrong to risky to 668 00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:51,200 Speaker 10: actually criminal, where people are giving tax advice that if 669 00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:54,640 Speaker 10: you follow the irs is going to have a little 670 00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:56,960 Speaker 10: conversation and it's going to be expensive. 671 00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:00,240 Speaker 2: Well, but Barry, do you feel it as the as 672 00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:02,960 Speaker 2: parts of the economy slow and as we go to 673 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:06,560 Speaker 2: a slowing or normalization aka liquidity comes out of the market, 674 00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:08,320 Speaker 2: do these things stop or do you think like we're 675 00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:09,080 Speaker 2: just in it now. 676 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:13,200 Speaker 10: So here's the thing that I think people kind of 677 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:16,280 Speaker 10: overlook because we all have a tendency to see the 678 00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:20,000 Speaker 10: world from our own unique perspective, and only some of 679 00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:22,440 Speaker 10: us are paid to step back and look at the 680 00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:27,600 Speaker 10: thirty thousand foot few. There is just so much money 681 00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:31,520 Speaker 10: sloshing around the US economy. It's not just stocks and bonds. 682 00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:35,360 Speaker 10: It's not just the six trillion with a t trillion 683 00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:39,160 Speaker 10: dollars that flowed into five plus percent money market accounts. 684 00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:42,320 Speaker 10: But you look at venture capital, you look at private equity, 685 00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:46,920 Speaker 10: you look at private credit. There is just trillions upon 686 00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:50,800 Speaker 10: trillions of dollars in the US economy. And even as 687 00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:56,239 Speaker 10: things start to slow from the massive fiscal stimulus of 688 00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:59,960 Speaker 10: the pandemic era. Remember Keresact one was the biggest fish 689 00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:02,840 Speaker 10: stimulus since World War Two? Who is ten percent of GDP. 690 00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:06,760 Speaker 10: We've never seen something like that in a few generations. 691 00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:09,920 Speaker 10: Then Cares Act two both of those under President Trump 692 00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:14,000 Speaker 10: then cares Act three under President Biden to say nothing 693 00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:18,640 Speaker 10: of the other ten year long sort of infrastructure, semiconductor, 694 00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:22,080 Speaker 10: all the other legislation that came out. There's a lot 695 00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:26,400 Speaker 10: of money out there and it's going through the economy, 696 00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:31,080 Speaker 10: and when people have been erroneously forecasting a recession, we 697 00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:34,359 Speaker 10: can have a whole long, complicated discussion as to why 698 00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:37,240 Speaker 10: or why not a recession hasn't happened. But it comes 699 00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:40,800 Speaker 10: back to too much money, too strong of an economy 700 00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:46,320 Speaker 10: for a true, persistent and pervasive contraction to take place 701 00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:47,400 Speaker 10: at this time. 702 00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:51,680 Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, that's really the story of the economy 703 00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:54,080 Speaker 6: all these days, right, that demand that just will not 704 00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:56,920 Speaker 6: rein in last one for you quickly, Barry. We're saying 705 00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:59,480 Speaker 6: in this note here on TikTok that investors should consider 706 00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:02,640 Speaker 6: making changes on the very social media themselves. 707 00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:04,160 Speaker 7: Thirty seconds. What do you mean by that? 708 00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:08,440 Speaker 10: So you have to be very wary about claims that 709 00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:12,000 Speaker 10: are just too good to be true. Turn one hundred 710 00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:14,200 Speaker 10: dollars into a million. Hey, all you have to do 711 00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:17,279 Speaker 10: is earn two percent a day. Seems kind of ridiculous. 712 00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:20,440 Speaker 10: Don't pay taxes, just be on a boat on tax 713 00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:23,600 Speaker 10: Day on April fifteenth, utterly ridiculous. 714 00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:25,360 Speaker 6: Some of the other stuff. 715 00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:29,319 Speaker 10: Here's why we're teaching our kids today trade from home. Yeah, 716 00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:33,480 Speaker 10: I mean, really is this good advice for anybody? So 717 00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:35,959 Speaker 10: be skeptical. Anything that seems too good. 718 00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:37,319 Speaker 4: To be true probably is. 719 00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:39,959 Speaker 2: All right, Barry, We really appreciate it. Fun to chat 720 00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:41,960 Speaker 2: Barry wood Holtz joining us there. You can check out 721 00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:45,600 Speaker 2: his Master's in Business podcast. Check that out. Definitely. It's 722 00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:47,640 Speaker 2: almost telling me that his like twenty three year old 723 00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:49,759 Speaker 2: son is like, let's talk to me about dollar yen, Like, 724 00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:50,600 Speaker 2: how do I trade that? 725 00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:50,719 Speaker 5: In? 726 00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:52,480 Speaker 2: My colleague was like, please don't do that. 727 00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:53,680 Speaker 7: Far and above where I was a. 728 00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:01,319 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg and tell Us podcast. Catch 729 00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:04,960 Speaker 1: us live weekdays at ten am Eastern on Applecarplay and 730 00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:07,879 Speaker 1: Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. You can also 731 00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:11,439 Speaker 1: listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station, 732 00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:14,600 Speaker 1: Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 733 00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:19,000 Speaker 2: And it is an exciting day, particularly if you like Space. 734 00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:23,759 Speaker 2: So Bloomberg Space is the newest editorial franchise within our 735 00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:27,360 Speaker 2: far reaching newsroom, and it's launching today and it brings 736 00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:31,200 Speaker 2: together the best reporters and editors in the game, including 737 00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:35,399 Speaker 2: Lauren Crush, Bruce Einhorn, Kate Duffy, Todd Shields, and Eric 738 00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:40,400 Speaker 2: Johnson to deliver some hard hitting enterprise scoops, documentaries, photography 739 00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:42,799 Speaker 2: and podcasts all about dot do dot. 740 00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:44,120 Speaker 7: The business of space. 741 00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:47,839 Speaker 2: So for more inside stories of investments beyond Earth, from 742 00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:50,880 Speaker 2: satellite networks to moonlandings, you can visit bloomberg dot com 743 00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:52,680 Speaker 2: slash space for more. 744 00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:54,360 Speaker 7: And one of the stories. 745 00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:56,520 Speaker 2: Being featured is being included in the special section of 746 00:36:56,520 --> 00:37:00,360 Speaker 2: the Bloomberg BusinessWeek magazine titled Musk and Bezos Are Racing 747 00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:03,239 Speaker 2: to Bring Americans back to the Moon. It discusses how 748 00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:05,560 Speaker 2: NASA's hopes for a return to the Moon depend on 749 00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:09,839 Speaker 2: Elon Musk's SpaceX and Jeff Bezos's Blue Origin. Here to 750 00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:13,040 Speaker 2: discuss all of this with us is Lauren Grush, Bloomberg 751 00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:16,080 Speaker 2: US Space reporter. First of all, congrats on launching the 752 00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:19,400 Speaker 2: vertical that's no small feet. Definitely looking into that. I 753 00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:21,399 Speaker 2: did a half hour special on space once and I 754 00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:23,560 Speaker 2: loved it. It was so interesting, so thanks for doing that. 755 00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:26,520 Speaker 6: And also just to quickly confirm, this does not mean 756 00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:30,120 Speaker 6: that Bloomberg is launching anything into space. Yeah, we are 757 00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:33,200 Speaker 6: launching a vertical on a website about space. 758 00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:37,080 Speaker 11: It's hilarious how many people thought we might actually be 759 00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:38,280 Speaker 11: sending something to space. 760 00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:40,359 Speaker 7: But if people really think that's. 761 00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:46,439 Speaker 2: Yeah, so let's talk about launching humans into space. If 762 00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:50,440 Speaker 2: you're looking at Blue Origin or a SpaceX, how is 763 00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:54,520 Speaker 2: NASA taking a different approach to Blue Origin and SpaceX 764 00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:55,360 Speaker 2: this time round? 765 00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:56,640 Speaker 3: Right? 766 00:37:56,719 --> 00:37:59,560 Speaker 11: So, NASA is very intent on sending people back to 767 00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:02,759 Speaker 11: the Moon for its Artemis program, its goal is to 768 00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:05,000 Speaker 11: send the first woman and the first person of color 769 00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:08,000 Speaker 11: to the Larner's surface. But the other main goal is 770 00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:11,799 Speaker 11: to start a sustainable presence on the lunar surface other 771 00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:14,680 Speaker 11: than you know, as opposed to the Apollo missions, where 772 00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:16,920 Speaker 11: we just kind of went, we left flags and footprints 773 00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:20,120 Speaker 11: and then we came back and we were done. And 774 00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:23,880 Speaker 11: part of that is stimulating commercial companies to create hardware 775 00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:27,200 Speaker 11: that NASA can use to send people to the Moon, 776 00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:30,600 Speaker 11: and then those companies can use that hardware to potentially 777 00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:34,279 Speaker 11: turn a profit. And the big high profile companies are 778 00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:38,280 Speaker 11: of course Elon Musk, SpaceX and Jeff Bezos's Blue Origin, 779 00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:41,800 Speaker 11: which have both been tapped to create the lunar landers 780 00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:44,479 Speaker 11: that will be used to carry humans to and from 781 00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:45,360 Speaker 11: the lunar surface. 782 00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:48,200 Speaker 6: Lauren, I got to ask, as one of these mirror 783 00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:52,120 Speaker 6: Earth links here, why is this important to send people 784 00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:55,360 Speaker 6: to the Moon beyond just having the flags and the footprints. 785 00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:56,960 Speaker 7: Like, what is the you know, real. 786 00:38:57,120 --> 00:39:00,319 Speaker 6: Useful takeaway from having a presence on the Moon. 787 00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:04,280 Speaker 11: Well, of course there's the geopolitical one. You know, NASA 788 00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:08,160 Speaker 11: has a lot of partnerships with countries all over the world, 789 00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:11,400 Speaker 11: and Artemis is definitely a global program, So it's a 790 00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:15,080 Speaker 11: way for us to foster, you know, these relationships with 791 00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:18,800 Speaker 11: companies that want to send vehicles in hardware to space. 792 00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:22,200 Speaker 11: And then additionally it's kind of a proving ground. You know, 793 00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:26,360 Speaker 11: NASA is hoping to eventually send humans to Mars someday, 794 00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:30,440 Speaker 11: and the idea is that by living and working on 795 00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:34,000 Speaker 11: the Moon, they can you know, come up with new technologies, 796 00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:37,440 Speaker 11: new processes that they'll eventually use to send humans to 797 00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:38,160 Speaker 11: the Red planet. 798 00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:40,319 Speaker 6: I guess I still just wonder, though, how is that 799 00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:43,359 Speaker 6: like useful, you know besides just saying like we went 800 00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:45,120 Speaker 6: to space, Like, what's there. 801 00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:45,440 Speaker 3: To be that? 802 00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:46,560 Speaker 7: I don't know? Am I missing it? 803 00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:47,520 Speaker 5: No? 804 00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:48,239 Speaker 7: There there? 805 00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:50,160 Speaker 11: That is part of the use you know, you know, 806 00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:54,640 Speaker 11: obviously there are concerns about China also sending people to 807 00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:58,040 Speaker 11: the moon. NASA you know, doesn't want you know, there 808 00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:00,440 Speaker 11: is a bit of a race and that and that respect. 809 00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:02,839 Speaker 11: But at the same time, there are all these kinds 810 00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:05,239 Speaker 11: of side benefits that come from sending people to the moon. 811 00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:07,839 Speaker 11: A lot of the technologies that we use here on 812 00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:12,560 Speaker 11: Earth have come from space exploration, and so by you know, 813 00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:15,120 Speaker 11: making this that a goal, there are all there are 814 00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:16,960 Speaker 11: going to be all of these side benefits that we 815 00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:19,160 Speaker 11: that trickle down to us. And then of course there's 816 00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:21,880 Speaker 11: the inspirational element of it too. You know, seeing a 817 00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:24,720 Speaker 11: woman walk on the moon will definitely inspire. 818 00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:26,239 Speaker 7: Many young women to. 819 00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:30,040 Speaker 11: Hopefully want to become astronauts or join the space industry someday. 820 00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:32,359 Speaker 2: Well, and for a while, no one seemed to care 821 00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:35,120 Speaker 2: about space launches anymore. Like that was sixties and seventies 822 00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:37,919 Speaker 2: and we stopped kind of caring, and Jeff Bezos sending 823 00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:40,239 Speaker 2: on a musk made it all really cool and sexy again. 824 00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:42,040 Speaker 2: And now we have a space launch, we take it 825 00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:44,440 Speaker 2: and we talk about it, and we own that, we 826 00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:46,520 Speaker 2: have a vertical about it. I mean, now it's becoming 827 00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:51,279 Speaker 2: something that is inspirational. Again, what company do you think 828 00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:53,120 Speaker 2: is going to be the first to land humans on 829 00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:53,439 Speaker 2: the Moon? 830 00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:55,400 Speaker 7: Well, that's a that's. 831 00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:58,239 Speaker 11: A great question and obviously something that we're going to 832 00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:00,799 Speaker 11: watch over the next decade or so. So as of 833 00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:04,600 Speaker 11: this moment, SpaceX is technically in the front running. They're 834 00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:07,640 Speaker 11: supposed to land humans on the Moon as early as 835 00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:09,839 Speaker 11: twenty twenty six. I think a lot of people are 836 00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:13,640 Speaker 11: skeptical about that date just because of the amount of 837 00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:16,799 Speaker 11: you know, technical things that they have to overcome, the 838 00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:19,560 Speaker 11: challenges they have. There's a lot of technology development they 839 00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:23,440 Speaker 11: have to do, and also the deadline for their human 840 00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:25,719 Speaker 11: lunar landing has changed. 841 00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:26,360 Speaker 7: A few times before. 842 00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:30,399 Speaker 11: Blue Origin says that they're hoping to land humans as 843 00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:33,080 Speaker 11: early as twenty twenty nine, which may be a. 844 00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:34,080 Speaker 7: More realistic date. 845 00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:38,319 Speaker 11: However, they are looking to land a cargo version of 846 00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:41,439 Speaker 11: their vehicle on the Moon as early as next year. 847 00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:45,400 Speaker 11: SpaceX is also hoping to do an uncrewde landing of 848 00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:49,000 Speaker 11: their hardware on the Moon as early as next year. 849 00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:52,840 Speaker 11: So you know, it's anyone's game at that moment to 850 00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:56,319 Speaker 11: see who can actually land something on the Moon. But 851 00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:58,719 Speaker 11: whoever does if that is Blue Origin. It'll be a 852 00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:00,960 Speaker 11: bit of a shot across the bow, if you will, 853 00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:04,840 Speaker 11: because Blue Origin has had execution problems, whereas SpaceX is 854 00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:09,560 Speaker 11: obviously quite famous for, you know, rapidly launching and iterating 855 00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:12,000 Speaker 11: and moving forward with its programs. 856 00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:15,120 Speaker 2: All right, thank you so much, Lauren, We really appreciate it. 857 00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:17,920 Speaker 2: Congrats on the article, congrats on launching the vertical, and 858 00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:21,280 Speaker 2: no small feet. Lauren Crush joins US now called Space 859 00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:25,400 Speaker 2: Reporter for Bloomberg and for more inside stories of investments 860 00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:28,720 Speaker 2: beyond Earth, from satellite networks to moon landing. Visits bloomberg 861 00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:32,400 Speaker 2: dot com slash space for more. So I'm taking got 862 00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:34,799 Speaker 2: a nice couch, by the way in the background. 863 00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:38,200 Speaker 7: I don't see how the couch is relevant to space. 864 00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:39,239 Speaker 7: It's not going up there. 865 00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:42,520 Speaker 4: You go to Mars, you want a nice couch. 866 00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:45,080 Speaker 7: My couch is staying on Earth. It's getting in this 867 00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:46,239 Speaker 7: apartment one way or another. 868 00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:49,920 Speaker 2: Okay, So you would not be on board for literally 869 00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:51,360 Speaker 2: going to space is not your jam. 870 00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:53,239 Speaker 6: I mean, look, if someone's going to pay you know, 871 00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:56,200 Speaker 6: the millionaires whatever dollars for my ticket, I'm sure it's. 872 00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:56,800 Speaker 3: More than a million. 873 00:42:57,320 --> 00:42:59,719 Speaker 6: Like, yeah, I'll be the beneficiary of that. 874 00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:00,960 Speaker 7: But like I don't know. 875 00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:03,759 Speaker 6: I still do struggle to see what's the utility of 876 00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:05,000 Speaker 6: going to space? 877 00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:08,560 Speaker 7: Am I missing it? I get the whole inspirational aspect 878 00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:09,080 Speaker 7: of it. 879 00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:10,920 Speaker 6: Like wow, this is so great, you know, and like 880 00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:13,760 Speaker 6: the images of like you know, Armstrong with the flag, 881 00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:17,160 Speaker 6: But why is this useful for us here on earth? 882 00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:21,399 Speaker 6: Besides it's cool? Has anyone answered it? Did I miss it? 883 00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:24,879 Speaker 2: I mean I think it's learning. I mean I think 884 00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:29,560 Speaker 2: it's learning stuff. Could you imagine you're going to learn. 885 00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:30,880 Speaker 4: How that's advanced and how we can build new couches 886 00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:32,240 Speaker 4: based on what we learn in space. 887 00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:35,400 Speaker 2: Actually ignore the last little landage made her couch. They 888 00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:37,560 Speaker 2: built it in space. That's why it's taken so long. 889 00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:42,600 Speaker 1: This is the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast, available on apples, Spotify, 890 00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:46,040 Speaker 1: and anywhere else you get your podcasts. Listen live each 891 00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:49,400 Speaker 1: weekday ten am to noon Eastern on Bloomberg dot Com, 892 00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:52,919 Speaker 1: the iHeart Radio app, tune In, and the Bloomberg Business app. 893 00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:56,160 Speaker 1: You can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube 894 00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:58,160 Speaker 1: and always on the Bloomberg terminal