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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney. Alongside

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Speaker 1: my co host Matt Miller. Every business day we bring

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Speaker 1: you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts, along

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Speaker 1: with essential market moving news. Find the Bloomberg Markets Podcast

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Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts, and

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Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot com slash podcast Soil. Thanks so much

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Speaker 1: for joining us here. How shall we think about these

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Speaker 1: equity markets in two given the strong performance we had? Well, Paul,

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Speaker 1: first of all, to you and Tailor. Happy new year.

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Speaker 1: Thank you very much for having me on again. UM,

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Speaker 1: so good news and bad news. Good news is that

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Speaker 1: last year the stock market was up almost thirty on

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Speaker 1: a total return basis. We've been up more than a

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Speaker 1: hundred since the bottom of the market last March. Earnings

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Speaker 1: last year probably up about fifty five zero percent year

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Speaker 1: on year. UM, that's not the kind of year we're

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Speaker 1: looking for In calendar to me too, earnings maybe will

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Speaker 1: be up eight percent year on year. We think we've

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Speaker 1: seen as much multiple expansion as we're going to get,

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Speaker 1: and we do expect that. You know, the bias in

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Speaker 1: terms of interest rates and the Fed is higher. Um,

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Speaker 1: So I don't think we're getting a multiple expansion. We've

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Speaker 1: got a fifty three hundred target on the SMP five

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Speaker 1: hundred are hundred call of course for last year, so

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Speaker 1: that gives us, you know, roughly a ten percent move

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Speaker 1: higher now is pretty good, uh, you know, uh, in

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Speaker 1: a normal year. But it's not you know, the thirty

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Speaker 1: percent we saw last year, the percent we've seen over

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Speaker 1: the last couple of years. So I guess what I'm

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Speaker 1: saying is we need to mute our expectations a lot

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Speaker 1: more volatility in our view in calendar twenty two. And

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Speaker 1: that volatility, Phil, does it come from at least some

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Speaker 1: of the surveys that Bloomberg has done, It is all

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Speaker 1: about inflation less. So about COVID, how are you thinking

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Speaker 1: about the volatility and the risks and where that stems from? Oh, Taylor,

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Speaker 1: that's a great question. Um. You know, when you look

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Speaker 1: at COVID, maybe we've got a somewhat out of consensus

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Speaker 1: view that we're looking at the you know, the cycles

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Speaker 1: in South Africa, the cycles in the European Union, in

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Speaker 1: the UK, and the cycles here in the United States,

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Speaker 1: and we've got a view that that am Acron is

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Speaker 1: going to peak here maybe you know, by the end

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Speaker 1: of this month, uh, and become much less a big

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Speaker 1: deal uh than it's been over the last couple of months. Now,

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Speaker 1: that's not to say that we don't know what the

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Speaker 1: next variant is going to be. Is the next variant

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Speaker 1: going to be more problematic than am acron? I don't know.

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Speaker 1: But as we're looking at the financial markets, where we

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Speaker 1: are a lot more concerned about what's going on with

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Speaker 1: inflation and more precisely, what's going on with the federal reserves.

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Speaker 1: Likely response now while a lot of folks are on vacation,

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Speaker 1: the government reported that the Core Personal Consumption Expenditure Index,

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Speaker 1: which is the Fed's preferred measure of inflation, rose four

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Speaker 1: point seven year on your basis in November. That that

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Speaker 1: that's huge And and remember the FEDS target is two,

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Speaker 1: where we're you know, will above that. So the FED,

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Speaker 1: in our view, did the right thing in accelerating its

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Speaker 1: tapering program. We think the taper is going to be

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Speaker 1: done by the end of March. We're expecting three quarter

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Speaker 1: point rate hikes over the course of next year. But

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Speaker 1: but suppose inflation is an even bigger problem than we

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Speaker 1: think it is. Does that mean maybe the FED is

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Speaker 1: going to shift from quantitative easing to quantitative tightening, shrinking

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Speaker 1: its balance sheet, you know, aggressively. And and and maybe

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Speaker 1: instead of quarter point rate hikes, maybe the FEDS thinking

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Speaker 1: about fifty basis point rate hikes in order to sort

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Speaker 1: of catch up from behind the curve. I don't know

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Speaker 1: the answer to those questions, but but that's part of

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Speaker 1: the uncertain in the volatility that that potentially is in

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Speaker 1: store for us over the course of calendar twenty two.

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Speaker 1: All right, So given that backdrop, phil um, do I

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Speaker 1: stick with the big growth names that have worked for

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Speaker 1: me for more than a decade, the Apples, the Amazons

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Speaker 1: of the world order, I stick with that cyclical trade.

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Speaker 1: But boy, it's been really good over the last eighteen

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Speaker 1: twenty four months to whether it's energy or banks. How

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Speaker 1: do I think about that? So? Uh, in our view,

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Speaker 1: you stick with that cyclical trade, the value trade. And

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Speaker 1: and to some degree there's a function of valuation that

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Speaker 1: that forward multiples on the SMP five right now around

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Speaker 1: you know, twenty times earnings, give or take, which is

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Speaker 1: which is high? But I'm not losing any sleep over it.

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Speaker 1: But when you look at the growthier names, technology, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: Those p's are up in the mid thirties. You look

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Speaker 1: at the value names UH Financials, Energy, UH discretionary, UH materials,

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Speaker 1: industrials multiples in on those sectors in the mid teens.

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Speaker 1: Yet the pricing power and the outsized earnings gains, in

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Speaker 1: our view, are going to come from those value categories.

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Speaker 1: So as we look at where to invest, where do

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Speaker 1: you put new money in calendar twenty two, I think

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Speaker 1: there are three places we're focused on. Number one, domestic

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Speaker 1: large cap value and we just covered that. Number two

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Speaker 1: small cap, particularly on a growth adjusted basis, those valuations

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Speaker 1: are very cheap. And then finally, international international is extraordinarily

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Speaker 1: chief versus the domestic um. If we're right that am

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Speaker 1: aquana is, we're going to roll over here, you know,

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Speaker 1: and let's call it the first quarter of the year.

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Speaker 1: There's gonna be a cancerup training International. It's gonna start

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Speaker 1: at some point during the year. Yeah, all right, Phil,

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Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining us. Really appreciate getting your

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Speaker 1: thoughts as usual, always giving us some cogent thoughts as

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Speaker 1: we take a look at these markets. Are Phil Orlando,

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Speaker 1: Chief equity market Strategists and head of client portfolio management

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Speaker 1: at Federated Herme's you know what, I think? That six

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Speaker 1: billion assets under management, so they know a thing or

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Speaker 1: two about these markets. So I've been saying to myself

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Speaker 1: at least and maybe even to the audience here, why

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Speaker 1: isn't a ten year yield higher? I mean, I got

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Speaker 1: the Federal Reserve talking about accelerating tapering at talking about

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Speaker 1: raising rates next year, and you know, average Jersey from

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Intelligence said, just focus on the two years you

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Speaker 1: are seeing that go up. The tenure will follow. Well,

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Speaker 1: maybe it is following a little bit here today up

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Speaker 1: about eight basis points, but let's bring in an expert

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Speaker 1: who can really answer this question. Prea Misra, Managing director

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Speaker 1: and global head of rate strategy at TV Securities. So

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Speaker 1: we're seeing a move up in a tenure today. This

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Speaker 1: feels like what I should have been seeing all along.

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Speaker 1: How do you? How are you thinking about this yield curve? Here?

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Speaker 1: As we enter two hi fause thanks for having me

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Speaker 1: so um Yes, I think a big puzzle for us

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Speaker 1: last year was why the long end rallied. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I can see why the fronting should have moved the most,

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Speaker 1: as hikes will getting priced in UM, but the long end,

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Speaker 1: even a faster taper, it was just rock solid and

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Speaker 1: actually lower rates. And so today it could be a

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Speaker 1: little bit of catchup. I think also with the rise

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Speaker 1: in omicron but hospitalization staying low. You know, I think

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Speaker 1: there's a general hope perhaps that the pandemic is moving

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Speaker 1: to an endemic state. Risk assets are doing well, so

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Speaker 1: today might be more catch up. We have a lot

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Speaker 1: of data this week and I'll be watching the ice

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Speaker 1: and services data particularly to see if there's any impact

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Speaker 1: of omicron on that UM as well as of course

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Speaker 1: we have payrolls and the minutes, and that's where I

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Speaker 1: think another reason why the long end might sell off,

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Speaker 1: as if they talk about balance sheet run off. I

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Speaker 1: think that they clearly discussed it in that December meeting,

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Speaker 1: and we think the minutes will have more in terms

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Speaker 1: of when do they start that. I think that's much

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Speaker 1: more bearish for the long end of the curve. So

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Speaker 1: we are looking for the tenure to reach two percent

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Speaker 1: by your end. You know, there's no clear catalyst today.

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Speaker 1: I think it's just more a catch up. Why did

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Speaker 1: that started? The longer term catalyst as well as you're

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Speaker 1: thinking about inflation, right you know, with the inflation, the

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Speaker 1: issue is which part of the curve gets impacted depends

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Speaker 1: really on the FED reaction function. So far, it's been

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Speaker 1: the front end that's been responding to inflation, because you know,

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Speaker 1: the FED was responding through sooner hikes um. But if

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Speaker 1: it seems as if the Freed is more cautious, and

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Speaker 1: that's why I would look at the growth side. If

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Speaker 1: the growth momentum starts to slow down, perhaps due to

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Speaker 1: omicron or phiscal drag, we're very nervous about the expiration

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Speaker 1: of the Child Act credit and other impact on the consumer,

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Speaker 1: then I think the long end can start to respond

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Speaker 1: to inflation, because then you should get paid up more

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Speaker 1: to take on inflation risk if you're buying the tenure.

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Speaker 1: But in the near term, as the FED hiking cycle

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Speaker 1: is very much front and center, I think the front

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Speaker 1: end is more inflation driven than the very long end

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Speaker 1: by background, and so I'm not very sure I'm getting

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Speaker 1: all the nuances from this feder Reserve, but it seems

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Speaker 1: like the Federal Reserve is doing a very good job

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Speaker 1: at telegraphing and messaging what they plan to do in

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Speaker 1: two is that your take as well. Are you concerned

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Speaker 1: that maybe they could make a mistake here in terms

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Speaker 1: of maybe the pace or the rate at which they

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Speaker 1: raise rates. Right, So, I think the market is pricing

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Speaker 1: in a risk of a policy mistake because even though

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Speaker 1: the start of the hiking cycle is well priced, you know,

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Speaker 1: to your point, the Fed is telegraphed to hike this year,

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Speaker 1: and the markets now pricing in May of this year,

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Speaker 1: first hike, three hikes this year. It's really the endpoint

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Speaker 1: and the piece of hikes after this year that the

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Speaker 1: market is really underpricing what the fret is messaging. So

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Speaker 1: either the markets calling the Fed's bluff that they won't

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Speaker 1: be able to raise rates that much, or it's an

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Speaker 1: idea of a policy mistake that they slow the economy

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Speaker 1: down and therefore they will either have to cut rates

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Speaker 1: or not be able to raise rates. So, you know,

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Speaker 1: I think they've been able to telegraph the near term,

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Speaker 1: but it's really how much are they going to raise rates?

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Speaker 1: How much are they gonna hike next year and the

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Speaker 1: year after, And this is where I think there is

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Speaker 1: uncertainty both from the economic out look as well as

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Speaker 1: the FED reaction function. We're going to have new FED governors,

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Speaker 1: three new FED governors most likely getting added to the

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Speaker 1: voting members this year, and that could also shift the

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Speaker 1: dynamic into next year. So that's why I think the

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Speaker 1: market is has a disconnect with what the FED is communicating.

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Speaker 1: When you think about some of the near term policies,

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Speaker 1: how much are you thinking about a move in March

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Speaker 1: if March is a live meeting or are we looking

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Speaker 1: at a federal reserve with a very very clear distinction

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Speaker 1: between ending the taper and then a timeline before that

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Speaker 1: we get to the right height. So before the Army

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Speaker 1: cron surge, I was thinking March could be a live

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Speaker 1: meeting because they're already communicated the end of tapering and

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Speaker 1: they could turn around and hike right away because they

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Speaker 1: have very clear um, you know, conditions that have to

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Speaker 1: be meant to hike. I would say, with the Army

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Speaker 1: cron surge, and you know we are asking frictions in

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Speaker 1: the travel industry, in leisure, I would argue service consumption

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Speaker 1: is going to be a bit slow at least to

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Speaker 1: start the year off. I think the FED, or or

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Speaker 1: our view is that that March meeting is not really live,

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Speaker 1: that the FED will want to retain optionality, flexibility, stress,

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Speaker 1: on uncertainty and therefore just wait for the data after

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Speaker 1: the omicron spike is behind us in the US, which

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Speaker 1: is probably only by the end of the first quarter

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Speaker 1: for the country, so which is why we think it's

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Speaker 1: more in the second quarter that they can evaluate how

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Speaker 1: much did domicron impact growth and whether their conditions to hike,

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Speaker 1: which is both inflation and on the labor market, whether

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Speaker 1: those are met. So that's why we're looking for the

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Speaker 1: first hike only in June. Um But I would say

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Speaker 1: that it's really a function on of how the economy

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Speaker 1: shows down. All right, prea, thank you so much for

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Speaker 1: joining us yet again, Pa Miserable, Managing director and Global

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Speaker 1: head of rate Strategy at t D Securities. Otherwise on

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Speaker 1: as Toronto Dominion. Did you know that I did? I

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Speaker 1: did know that. Okay, there shortening up these names, trying

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Speaker 1: to get a little bit cuter, I guess. But teacher

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Speaker 1: Curities there premus record. Well, we've got markets at or

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Speaker 1: near all time high. So when I was in my

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Speaker 1: investment banking days, I would just tailor pick up the

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Speaker 1: phone and call my clients and say, Hey, your stocks

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Speaker 1: in an all time high. Let's go issue some stock.

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Speaker 1: How how creative was that? How was that? Is that

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Speaker 1: adding value or not? You know so? But the question

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Speaker 1: is and a lot of those phone calls were made

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Speaker 1: in one and the question is what do we do

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Speaker 1: here in two? Um, let's bring in our next guess

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Speaker 1: he's got some thoughts here he's going to share with us.

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Speaker 1: Greg Flasnik, CEO of m Z North America. Greg, thanks

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Speaker 1: so much for joining us here again. A good, great,

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Speaker 1: slash really lucrative year for I p O slash spank

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Speaker 1: spack bankers in twenty one, how about two? Yeah? You know,

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Speaker 1: I think you know, two thousand twenty one was a

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Speaker 1: record year for I p O s And I think

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Speaker 1: if you look back at the beginning twenty one, you know,

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Speaker 1: the start of COVID vaccines were rolling out, at global

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Speaker 1: rebound of economies, We've seen a lot of liquidity accelerated

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Speaker 1: by government stimulus and and all of this has resulted

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Speaker 1: in quite a bit of optimism for the global IPO

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Speaker 1: market um with with investor sentiment at peak UM. But

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Speaker 1: I think if you look at you know, the next year,

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Speaker 1: the year where now I guess two thousand twenty two, Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, I feel that that momentum should continue at

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Speaker 1: least into the first quarter of twenty two. I think

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Speaker 1: that the spack vehicle is is um a great way

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Speaker 1: of our companies to go public, and I think it's

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Speaker 1: something that's here to stay. It certainly doesn't have the

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Speaker 1: kind of risk that investors perceived, you know, maybe ten

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Speaker 1: years ago. UM. And I think you know, if you

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Speaker 1: if you look at the back market in twenty one,

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Speaker 1: there was a lot of this bad of celebrities back sponsors, right,

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Speaker 1: So I think you're gonna see less of this um

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Speaker 1: and more from the serial spack sponsors sponsors eventually, but

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Speaker 1: in the near term pullback from the serial spack sponsors,

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Speaker 1: allowing what's already in the market. They're they're waiting for

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Speaker 1: time to source and executed transaction UM as we are

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Speaker 1: seeing a prolonged the spack process. So UM. You know

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Speaker 1: what I mean by that is, you know, it could

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Speaker 1: be completed in the little or three months, it's now

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Speaker 1: taken closer to six months on average um UM. But

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Speaker 1: but I think you know, for I p O candidates,

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Speaker 1: undoubtedly they're up against some higher market volatility and and

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Speaker 1: I just think it's important to remain flexible with with

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Speaker 1: companies capital raising plans um in the event in I

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Speaker 1: p O timeline is the way due to a shift

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Speaker 1: in market conditions. But bottom line, I think high valuations

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Speaker 1: and market liquidity are going to keep the I p

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Speaker 1: O market hop as um we worked in the two

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Speaker 1: twenty two and as Paul mentioned, you know, good for

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Speaker 1: these companies taking advantage of some of these high valuations,

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Speaker 1: but for investors maybe not so much. I'm taking a

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Speaker 1: look at our spack index in our I p O

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Speaker 1: index both ridden down. We have a speck index we

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Speaker 1: do it is the I p O X Stack Index.

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Speaker 1: Very cool. Spack index go on the terminal. Those were

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Speaker 1: down last year ten relative to the SMP which is up.

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Speaker 1: So how do investors start to perhaps maybe differentiate or

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Speaker 1: start to be more discerning with what stacks or what

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Speaker 1: I p O s they should be in. That's right,

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Speaker 1: and I think there there was a time where, you know,

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Speaker 1: we saw that again the the investor sentiment, the rise

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Speaker 1: of the retail investor, where you know, in my business,

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Speaker 1: I saw you know, people just basically buying anything that

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Speaker 1: was an I p O or anything that was back,

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Speaker 1: and certainly that is in a winning strategy. So I

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Speaker 1: think just just having discipline in your investment criteria and

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Speaker 1: deciding kind of what you know, really what you know,

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Speaker 1: what is meaningful to you, and what you think ultimately

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Speaker 1: would work. But um, you know, there is going to

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Speaker 1: be a lot of annoys. There's always going to be

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Speaker 1: winners and losers. And I think, just especially as it

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Speaker 1: were ways to the retail investor, typically we see the

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Speaker 1: sort of work best where people kind of have some

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Speaker 1: sort of uh, I guess relation to the company about

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Speaker 1: going public. I mean, what does it do for me?

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Speaker 1: Why can I relate to this? Hey, Greg, thanks so

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Speaker 1: much for joining us. I really appreciated getting your thoughts

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Speaker 1: here on the new issue market. I p o S

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Speaker 1: SPACs markets all time high. I'd be making a phone

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Speaker 1: call to my clients saying, let's push some stock out

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Speaker 1: the dork. Greg Lasnick, CEO of m Z North America

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Speaker 1: looking at Tesla today to stocks up over ten it

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Speaker 1: sounds like they're actually or looks like they're actually pretty

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Speaker 1: good at making this, making these cars, that it's not

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Speaker 1: just a tech story anymore. But let's bring in Dan

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Speaker 1: Eys because he's been very bullish on Tesla and Tech

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Speaker 1: and he's been very right. Dan Eyes, managing director and

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Speaker 1: senior equity analysts for web Bush Securities, also a product

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Speaker 1: of Happy Valley. Uh Dan, thanks so much for joining

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Speaker 1: us here. So it turns out Tesla was how to

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Speaker 1: make a lot of cars, don't they And they know

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Speaker 1: how to make them despite the chip shortage. I think

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Speaker 1: that Paul I didn't. That's the big day. I mean,

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Speaker 1: the chip shortage probably took thirty thirty five cars off

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Speaker 1: the quarter, So you start to add those, you're looking

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Speaker 1: at something close to three and did this was it

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Speaker 1: was a trophy keys quarter for Tessa in terms of

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Speaker 1: what we're seeing demand and a lot of it's China.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we think China loans worth about five hundred

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Speaker 1: dollars per shared of the story in terms of everything

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Speaker 1: we're seeing going in two thousand twenty two. Interesting when

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Speaker 1: we talk about this, where is Tesla relative to some

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Speaker 1: of the other competitors, Because you've talked a lot about

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Speaker 1: some of the other big tech companies coming in maybe

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Speaker 1: being able to compete, But who is a Tesla competitor

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Speaker 1: at this point? Yeah, I mean tell it's a great

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Speaker 1: question because the competition now is starting to expand, not

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Speaker 1: just some auto players, but even technologies and We expect

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Speaker 1: Apple to get into the e V game over the

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Speaker 1: next few years. I think Amazon, Google and others because

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Speaker 1: it's a five trillion dollar green tidalwing. But when you

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Speaker 1: look at the core competitors or Tesla, it's really Ford

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Speaker 1: GM in the US, and then of course VW and

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Speaker 1: Europe and in China you've got Neo x Pinion others.

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Speaker 1: But it's important because you look at the scale that

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Speaker 1: they have, it's unmatched, and I think that's something that

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Speaker 1: still is underappreciated by the street. Once you get Berlin

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Speaker 1: in Austin and they'll have capacity of over two million

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Speaker 1: units going in two thousand twenty two, Dan, how do

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Speaker 1: you think Tesla wants to position itself from a marketing perspective?

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Speaker 1: Once we have the vw is and the Fords and

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Speaker 1: the gms, you know, with a full array of e vs,

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Speaker 1: how does Tesla want to position themselves in this marketplace? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean they definitely were on the high end as

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Speaker 1: we saw the sn X. But but but the core

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Speaker 1: winchpin to Tesla growth is going to be in that

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Speaker 1: forty to fifty k range with probably additional software on

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Speaker 1: on top of that. It's a cachet that they've built,

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Speaker 1: remember without any formal marketing, because Tessa has become synonymous

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Speaker 1: with EVS and a lot of that is related to

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Speaker 1: Musk and everything that him and the team have built.

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Speaker 1: And no doubt competition is going to significantly increase. But

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Speaker 1: what's important today, I mean E d S is still

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Speaker 1: only three automobiles in the world when that goes at

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Speaker 1: ten by two thousand and for test of the big

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Speaker 1: opportunity now they can get card into consumer's hands. That

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Speaker 1: is ultimately the key, and it's something where the average

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Speaker 1: consumer when they look at EVS, they're looking why should

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Speaker 1: I not buy a Tesla? And I think that's something

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Speaker 1: they put themselves into the same situation as the Apple

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Speaker 1: when it comes to iPhone. Are you talking about the

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Speaker 1: US consumer or increasingly a Chinese consumer, Well, the China

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Speaker 1: is the winchpin. That's the key to the bull thesis.

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Speaker 1: I mean China, we can that would be about four

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Speaker 1: percent plus deliveries for testing two thousand twenty two. And

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Speaker 1: that's why China is so key because also the profitability

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Speaker 1: on these vehicles. Now test is a profitable story. They

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Speaker 1: can have thirty dollars earnings, how about two? Wow? That

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Speaker 1: is China driven. And if it sounds familiar because that

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Speaker 1: company and Cupertino, what's been a key part of their growth.

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Speaker 1: It's China for Apple. So you look at what Apple

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Speaker 1: and Teslam and Musk is really taking a playbook out

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Speaker 1: of Apple. Dan, I'm looking at the Bloomberg Ternel right now.

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Speaker 1: They a and our function an analyst recommendation. Of course,

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Speaker 1: we have an apperform rating on the stock and I

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Speaker 1: see a fourteen hundred price target. What's the catalyst to

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Speaker 1: get us from you know, eleven sixty six here too? Well,

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Speaker 1: I think the key catalyst is as we get into

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Speaker 1: the earnings season over the next call at three or

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Speaker 1: four weeks, it's really must talk about chip shortage because

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Speaker 1: if chip short just starting to moderate, which we believe

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Speaker 1: it is, then all of a Sudden's street numbers and

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Speaker 1: they could go up two h thousand units, you know

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Speaker 1: for the year. That means profitability could be up thirty

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Speaker 1: relative to what the streets modeling. That's a cattle. The

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Speaker 1: second catalyst is around battery technology. That's a big part

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Speaker 1: of their mood. I think improvements they are specifically on

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Speaker 1: costs side or significant to the Tesla story, and I

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Speaker 1: think those are some of the catalyst. We'll have some

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Speaker 1: white knuckle periods that we always do, and there's always

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Speaker 1: gonna be some side circuits shows. But if you look

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Speaker 1: at the fundamentals, that's really what I think stood out

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Speaker 1: When you look at what Tesla din is que for.

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Speaker 1: Take us outside Tesla as well other big tech because

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Speaker 1: you cover it all. What are you looking for to

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Speaker 1: be one of the best performers or a better stock

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Speaker 1: from a fundamental basis as we head into this year. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, we could talk about fed raising rates, risk

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Speaker 1: off valuation until it blue in the face, but it

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Speaker 1: comes down to the dynamic streets, underestimating his growth. And

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Speaker 1: know why that growth I think is in software and

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Speaker 1: cyber security. You look at names of software besides just Microsoft,

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Speaker 1: which you know, I think will be a three trillion

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Speaker 1: dollar mark AP two thousand twenty two. You know, I

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Speaker 1: look at some of these names in terms of cyber

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Speaker 1: secure names like g Scale or Tenable, pow Out though

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Speaker 1: among others. I think you also gonna have a lot

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Speaker 1: more m n A with the cloud cyber security, and

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Speaker 1: that's why you can't lump them all into the same bucket.

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Speaker 1: Work from home e commerce, you'll start to see some

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Speaker 1: of the frost come on. When you look at Cloud,

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Speaker 1: cyber Security five and some of the core names like Apple,

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Speaker 1: the spending is actually accelerating, not decelert And that's the

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Speaker 1: important Dan. You mentioned Coupertino, So I gotta ask you

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Speaker 1: for your call for Apple. Look, I mean for Apple,

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Speaker 1: it's right now we're about twelve million demand outstrip and

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Speaker 1: supply and units. Because of the shortage that that holds

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Speaker 1: me alongates the March in June growth that will see

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Speaker 1: for Apple. I still think this is an iPhone cycle.

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Speaker 1: Underest my aby the street it would be too forty

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Speaker 1: million units for the year. And then I think they

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Speaker 1: finally released Apple Glass by the summer that could add

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Speaker 1: twenty hours per share the air of your headset. And

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Speaker 1: I think Apples one where it's all about monetization, and

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Speaker 1: we think the services business saloon is worth one point

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Speaker 1: five trillion. That continues to be the rerating. Like we've said, Paul,

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Speaker 1: they hate, They hated a trillion, despised two trillions, and

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Speaker 1: they're just screaming at three trillion. What caters will hate

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Speaker 1: it is what it is, all right, Dan, What we

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Speaker 1: love about you, consistent and with great conviction on your calls.

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Speaker 1: We appreciate that and appreciate getting your time. Dan ives

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Speaker 1: he's a managing director senior equity analysts at Wedbush Security,

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Speaker 1: is proud alumnus of the Penn State University. I wrote

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Speaker 1: a lot of tuition checks the pen Penn State University,

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Speaker 1: so I have a particular affinity, uh for there. But

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Speaker 1: Dan has been not just really good here on this

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Speaker 1: Tesla story. Uh, and it's really been amazing to watch it.

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Speaker 1: Just the tech analysts get it. The auto analysts by

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Speaker 1: and large have not historically but really shown that they

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Speaker 1: can make a lot of cars there. Thanks for listening

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Speaker 1: to the Bloomberg Markets podcast. You can subscribe and listen

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00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:18,520
Speaker 1: to interviews with Apple Podcasts or whatever podcast platform you prefer.

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Speaker 1: I'm Matt Miller. I'm on Twitter at Matt Miller three.

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Speaker 1: Put on fall Sweeney I'm on Twitter at pt Sweeney.

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Speaker 1: Before the podcast. You can always catch us worldwide at

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio.