1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. 3 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:17,200 Speaker 1: I'm Holly Fry and I'm Tracy V. Wilson. Tracy, we're 4 00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:22,080 Speaker 1: still talking about wag aboards. We are. We've promised listeners 5 00:00:22,079 --> 00:00:24,600 Speaker 1: some corporate intrigue at the top of episode one, and 6 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:27,319 Speaker 1: we've already given some in that episode, but you're about 7 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:30,000 Speaker 1: to get a little more. We are also going to 8 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:33,680 Speaker 1: cover in today's part two some legal and pop culture 9 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:36,599 Speaker 1: appearances of the wig board in the twentieth century. And 10 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:40,440 Speaker 1: we're going to handle the little discussion of psychology. Heads up, 11 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:43,319 Speaker 1: if you skipped part one, none of the people were 12 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:46,720 Speaker 1: about to talk about are going to make any sense? Yeah, 13 00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 1: we do. Just jump right into the middle of something 14 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:52,680 Speaker 1: right here. Uh, and that is that. We ended part 15 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:57,680 Speaker 1: one with William Fold and Wegia Novelty Company choosing not 16 00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:02,120 Speaker 1: to continue their licensing deal with Isaac Fold and brother. 17 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:06,360 Speaker 1: This cut Isaac totally out of the business and gave 18 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:11,920 Speaker 1: his brother William licensing rights as a solo entity. There 19 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 1: was also a second part of William Fold's license that 20 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:18,840 Speaker 1: would cause even more problems for people who were not 21 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 1: William Fold. In two, Harry Wells Rusk sold out his 22 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:28,480 Speaker 1: interest in the company to Booie, and Booie had granted 23 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:33,679 Speaker 1: William Fold the only manufacturer license for Wegia boards. He 24 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:36,360 Speaker 1: was the only person who had a right to make 25 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:40,240 Speaker 1: Spirit boards using the Region name. But he didn't only 26 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:44,640 Speaker 1: manufacture Wegia boards. He was tired of dealing with competitors 27 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 1: on the market. We'll talk about those momentarily. So Folk 28 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:51,960 Speaker 1: thought that he could undercut his competitors by introducing his 29 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:56,400 Speaker 1: own Nonwigia talking boards to the market at a lower 30 00:01:56,440 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 1: price than competitors. This other non Wegia board was the 31 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:05,480 Speaker 1: Oracle board. So not only was full the only man 32 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:09,280 Speaker 1: license to make and distribute Weigia boards, he also got 33 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:14,400 Speaker 1: the largest slice of the competitor market. Suddenly, the company, 34 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:17,560 Speaker 1: and Fold in particular was making money just hand over 35 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 1: fist and some of his former colleagues were kind of 36 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:24,840 Speaker 1: feeling like they had been shafted. I think that's a 37 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 1: fair feeling. Yeah, Just in case anybody doesn't recall, Fold 38 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:33,960 Speaker 1: had been essentially an employee that was working in the 39 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:37,680 Speaker 1: shop manufacturing when he suddenly got put in charge of 40 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 1: the company by Colonel Washington Booi, who had paid the 41 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 1: most into the startup fund for the company because of 42 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:49,600 Speaker 1: their friendship. Definitely, some who you know helps your entire 43 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 1: career situation going on. Uh And at this point he's 44 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:56,000 Speaker 1: gotten rid of everyone else involved, so he's the only 45 00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:59,040 Speaker 1: one making profits from it, as well as paying royalties 46 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:03,240 Speaker 1: to Boo and Rusk. So after Charles Kennard had been 47 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:05,760 Speaker 1: pushed out of the company, you were called. The first 48 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 1: Wigia board making company was named after him. He had 49 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:13,240 Speaker 1: moved to Chicago, Illinois and started another company, Northwestern Toy 50 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:17,400 Speaker 1: and Manufacturing Company. This had actually been a company that 51 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:20,960 Speaker 1: was a branch unit of Kennard before the reord, so 52 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:24,239 Speaker 1: it had been making Wigia boards. This company was then 53 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:28,240 Speaker 1: also in transition because it had been cut and Kennard 54 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:30,560 Speaker 1: thought that they already had the set up they could 55 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:34,120 Speaker 1: manufacture their own talking boards, and so they developed and 56 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:37,480 Speaker 1: sold what they called the Volo talking board. It was 57 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 1: similar to the Wigia, of course, but it had a 58 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:44,440 Speaker 1: few key differences. The layout was pretty different as these 59 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 1: things go. The letters appeared in a funnel shape at 60 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:50,000 Speaker 1: the center of the board, and the numerals were split 61 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 1: into two columns, one on either side of that funnel. 62 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:56,440 Speaker 1: It also featured an option that I thought was quite 63 00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 1: clever for a weather report from the beyond, because the 64 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:02,880 Speaker 1: words clear year and rain were included as options situated 65 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:06,240 Speaker 1: at opposite sides of the board. And despite having made 66 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:09,320 Speaker 1: changes to the design and lay out, the Volo was 67 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 1: still too similar to the Wigia board. Wigia Novelty Company 68 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:16,839 Speaker 1: made a legal complaint of infringement and Volo production stopped 69 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:22,160 Speaker 1: after only three months. Cannard tried again. He had started 70 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 1: making a talking board under the name of America Toy 71 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:29,480 Speaker 1: Company back in Baltimore and with partners J. M. Raffle 72 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:33,800 Speaker 1: and Albert Strobel. This board was called in a Jilly. 73 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:37,839 Speaker 1: Colonel Bowie William Fold and Wigia Novelty were once again 74 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 1: ready with legal action, and the Agilly was gone almost 75 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:45,599 Speaker 1: as quickly as the Volo board had been. So he 76 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:47,640 Speaker 1: not only had been pushed out of the company that 77 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:50,680 Speaker 1: had once borne his name, he had been legally blocked 78 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:54,559 Speaker 1: from making similar products. While Fold amassed just a huge 79 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:58,600 Speaker 1: fortune after taking the Helm Elijah Bond. He was the 80 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:02,320 Speaker 1: lawyer who had secured the first patent on the Wigia board. 81 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:05,240 Speaker 1: Tried his hand at making his own talking boards with 82 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:09,400 Speaker 1: little success. In seven he introduced what was called the 83 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:14,440 Speaker 1: Nirvana Board under the Swastika Novelty Company. This was obviously 84 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 1: well before the rise of the Nazi Party and the 85 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:20,840 Speaker 1: Swastikas association with it. Bond was likely trying to use 86 00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:23,440 Speaker 1: the word Sanskrit origins as a way to bring an 87 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 1: air of ancient mysticism to his board, which did feature 88 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:30,600 Speaker 1: a swastika in the design. Regardless, there were not very 89 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:33,440 Speaker 1: many of these made, and the Nirvana board was never 90 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 1: a real contender for market share. Meanwhile, the battle between 91 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:41,360 Speaker 1: the Fold brothers continued and it kept going. William had 92 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:45,360 Speaker 1: formed the William Fold Manufacturing Company as the follow up 93 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 1: to Isaac Fold and brother to continue production of Wigia boards. 94 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:53,880 Speaker 1: He filed for an injunction to keep Isaac from making 95 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 1: Wigia boards and any other games that had been patented 96 00:05:57,440 --> 00:06:00,400 Speaker 1: by William. There were several of the is that they 97 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:02,640 Speaker 1: had been making when they were still in business together. 98 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:05,440 Speaker 1: I really wish we could find out what happened between 99 00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:09,799 Speaker 1: those two brothers. Um However, this injunction did not seem 100 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 1: to dissuade Isaac Fold, who started making a talking board 101 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:16,800 Speaker 1: under the name Oriole in nineteen o four. It took 102 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:19,599 Speaker 1: him a long time to get the Oriole to production, though, 103 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:22,560 Speaker 1: all the way until nineteen nineteen when he founded the 104 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 1: Southern Toy Company. But like everyone else who tried to 105 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:30,279 Speaker 1: compete with Wigia, his efforts were for not A judge 106 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:33,359 Speaker 1: ruled in nineteen twenty that William was the only brother 107 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:37,240 Speaker 1: who had a right to make Wigia boards. During testimony 108 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 1: in Fold versus Fold, Colonel Washington Booey gave a statement 109 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:45,240 Speaker 1: that credited Rice, not Kennard, and not Fold for creating 110 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:48,560 Speaker 1: the Wigia board, though the company was the owner of 111 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:53,000 Speaker 1: the patent through bonds filing. William had gone to great 112 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 1: lengths to assure his victory in this case. Again, that's 113 00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:58,800 Speaker 1: nineteen twenty, and that argument started in nineteen o one, 114 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:02,480 Speaker 1: so it legally played out for nineteen years between these 115 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:05,839 Speaker 1: two brothers, and as things were reaching their fever pitch in, 116 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 1: William had started writing letters to stores telling them that 117 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:14,120 Speaker 1: if they carried Isaac's Oriole board, they were in violation 118 00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:18,720 Speaker 1: of his trademark. William Fold bought out Colonel Bowie in 119 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:21,960 Speaker 1: nineteen nineteen, the year before the legal battle between the 120 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:26,239 Speaker 1: brothers concluded. He'd also built a new, high dollar three 121 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:30,680 Speaker 1: story factory to modernize production and the press. Following his 122 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 1: legal victory over his brother, it was often touted that 123 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:37,480 Speaker 1: William had made a million dollars as the maker of 124 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:40,880 Speaker 1: Wigia boards. He was always insistent that he did not 125 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:44,880 Speaker 1: believe in the Wigia board as a spiritual connection. He 126 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:48,680 Speaker 1: told reporters who visited him at home, quote, believe in 127 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 1: the Weigia board, I should say not. I'm no spiritualist. 128 00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:57,120 Speaker 1: I'm a Presbyterian. Yeah. It's interesting because some of those 129 00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:01,640 Speaker 1: articles um actually pump up the number in terms of 130 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:04,480 Speaker 1: how much money he made to three million. In any case, 131 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:07,280 Speaker 1: it had to have just been like salt in the 132 00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:09,760 Speaker 1: wound already to his brother and anybody else he had 133 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:14,320 Speaker 1: been in business with. In ninety, despite having made all 134 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 1: of that money, William Fold sued the Collector of Internal 135 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:21,440 Speaker 1: Revenue in Baltimore, claiming that his excise taxes had been 136 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:25,840 Speaker 1: overstated by two hundred dollars. That number was based on 137 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:28,920 Speaker 1: the table of taxes for goods that were categorized as 138 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:33,160 Speaker 1: games or amusements. Because the corporate image of the Luigia 139 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:37,840 Speaker 1: had always straddled the fence between amusement and mysticism, Fold's 140 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:40,720 Speaker 1: lawyers took the tack that this wasn't a game because 141 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 1: there was no opponent. If the tax collector wanted to 142 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:46,960 Speaker 1: classify it as a game, that would only work if 143 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:51,000 Speaker 1: they were willing to recognize that spirits were the opponents. Yes, 144 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:54,240 Speaker 1: this absolutely does conveniently ignore the fact that there are 145 00:08:54,280 --> 00:08:57,240 Speaker 1: plenty of games like Solitaire that a person can play 146 00:08:57,320 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 1: without an opponent. But the real wavering point of the 147 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:03,960 Speaker 1: court was the fact that the Wigia board was already 148 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:08,560 Speaker 1: being used by psychologists to study the unconscious mind, so 149 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:13,400 Speaker 1: it didn't really seem right to consider it just a game. However, 150 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:17,000 Speaker 1: because the company sold it as an amusement, the tax 151 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:20,920 Speaker 1: assessment was ruled correct. Fold appealed the decision right up 152 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:23,559 Speaker 1: through the court system until it was thrown out by 153 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:28,199 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court. Plenty of games are used in scientific studies, 154 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:31,600 Speaker 1: so this is a kind of weird argument. To me, Well, 155 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:34,280 Speaker 1: it is a weird argument, and I think the real 156 00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:39,240 Speaker 1: foundation of how weird it is is that fold in 157 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:43,920 Speaker 1: the Wigia The various companies that made Wigia did try 158 00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:48,720 Speaker 1: to straddle that line between mysticism and game to get 159 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 1: the greatest market share. But then, like if you categorize 160 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:54,640 Speaker 1: your thing a certain way. That's what it is, and 161 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:56,959 Speaker 1: that's how you get taxed. And then they're like no, no, no, 162 00:09:57,000 --> 00:10:00,640 Speaker 1: But it's also this um you can't play both sides. 163 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 1: That is definitely a case of corporate trying to have 164 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 1: its cake and eat it too. In William Fold was 165 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:10,680 Speaker 1: on the roof of his factory supervising the replacement of 166 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 1: a flagpole when the support that he was leaning on 167 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:17,800 Speaker 1: gave way. He managed to grab onto the ledge of 168 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:20,079 Speaker 1: one of the windows for a moment, but he couldn't 169 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:23,160 Speaker 1: maintain his grip and he fell to the ground. He 170 00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:26,960 Speaker 1: broke an arm, a leg, five ribs, and also sustained 171 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:30,720 Speaker 1: a concussion. He was rushed to Johns Hopkins, where he 172 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:34,520 Speaker 1: died from his injuries, but on his deathbed, Fold reportedly 173 00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:38,360 Speaker 1: asked his three children to promise to keep the company going, 174 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 1: which they did. Coming up, we'll talk about a nineties 175 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:46,760 Speaker 1: newspaper article that had a lot of questionable details. First, 176 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:49,319 Speaker 1: we will take a quick sponsor break before we get 177 00:10:49,360 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 1: to that. Four. So, in the late stages of World 178 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:05,720 Speaker 1: War two, journalist James P. Connelly wrote an article for 179 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:09,200 Speaker 1: the Baltimore Sun about the jump in Wigia board sales 180 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:13,440 Speaker 1: during the war. He interviewed William Arthur Folds, son of 181 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:15,720 Speaker 1: William Fold, for the piece, and there are a lot 182 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:19,680 Speaker 1: of inaccurate details in it. According to the article, which 183 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:24,680 Speaker 1: ran on May eighteenth, nine, folds father invented the Wigia 184 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:28,000 Speaker 1: board and held the first patent. We know all of 185 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:31,880 Speaker 1: that's incorrect. When asked why the Wigia board was once 186 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:36,920 Speaker 1: again experiencing a surge in sales, William Arthur Fold stated quote, 187 00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:39,240 Speaker 1: we have done a lot of missionary work on it 188 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:41,720 Speaker 1: through the years, and of course it is the times. 189 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:45,160 Speaker 1: Also in times like these, people take up things like 190 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:47,600 Speaker 1: the Wigia to find out what their sons and husbands 191 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:50,400 Speaker 1: are doing on the other side of the world. We 192 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:52,800 Speaker 1: don't put it out to be used in a serious way. 193 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:56,120 Speaker 1: It's just an amusement, that's all. There are even more 194 00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:58,679 Speaker 1: details and the article that are out of step with 195 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:02,160 Speaker 1: the facts of the Weigia boards origins in early years, 196 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:07,520 Speaker 1: as is supported by documentation. William Arthur tells the wee 197 00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:11,720 Speaker 1: Ya version of the board's name, but also embellishes the 198 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:15,040 Speaker 1: timeline of the game success. He says that the board 199 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:19,239 Speaker 1: only had moderate success initially, but as World War One approached, 200 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:23,200 Speaker 1: the board itself told his father, William Fold, quote to 201 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:26,680 Speaker 1: prepare for big business, said it was this message that 202 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:31,520 Speaker 1: catalyzed the expansion of the factories. This reminds me of 203 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:35,640 Speaker 1: all of the soft drink manufacturers that say they got 204 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 1: the recipe and a dream. Yes, it's very much like 205 00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:43,599 Speaker 1: that um and like the Folds were really good at marketing. 206 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:50,080 Speaker 1: But this is just documented. It's not so, he said. 207 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:54,480 Speaker 1: It's like wait, they expanded starting a year after they 208 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 1: started selling these boards in eight So an interesting but 209 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:02,320 Speaker 1: brief sect and of the article includes some commentary from 210 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:06,680 Speaker 1: doctors on the rumors that Wegi boards could cause insanity. 211 00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:10,000 Speaker 1: One unnamed doctor told the paper that he did not 212 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:13,360 Speaker 1: think that Wegi boards caused it, but he did think 213 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:17,479 Speaker 1: that they revealed it. Although William Arthur Fold was apparently 214 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:21,080 Speaker 1: quite dedicated to the company and his siblings Catherine and 215 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:24,880 Speaker 1: Hubert were as well, eventually they sold it they all 216 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:29,840 Speaker 1: experienced their own failing health. Parker Brothers purchased it from 217 00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:33,720 Speaker 1: them in nineteen sixty six. Parker Brothers move production of 218 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 1: the Wigia from Baltimore to Salem, Massachusetts. The year after 219 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:41,640 Speaker 1: Parker Brothers acquired the company, two million Wigi boards were sold. 220 00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:48,320 Speaker 1: Hasbro acquired Parker Brothers in and still manufacturers Wegi boards. 221 00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:50,880 Speaker 1: Are they still made in Salem? Do you know? That's 222 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:54,400 Speaker 1: a good question. I'm not sure. Um. Well, I mean 223 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:57,679 Speaker 1: they're made in a lot of different places. I'm curious 224 00:13:58,000 --> 00:13:59,959 Speaker 1: their main in factories all around the world. There might 225 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 1: still be one in Salem, or I would think it 226 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:03,720 Speaker 1: would be outside of Salem because it's not that big 227 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:06,959 Speaker 1: a place. But maybe they have a warehouse district I'm 228 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:11,240 Speaker 1: not aware of. Um. But yeah, you can still literally 229 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:13,120 Speaker 1: go online and buy one. You can walk into a 230 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:15,080 Speaker 1: toy store if you can find a toy store and 231 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:18,200 Speaker 1: buy one. Uh. Any of your big box retailers that 232 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:22,000 Speaker 1: have toy sections usually have something like it. If not 233 00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:28,280 Speaker 1: a Weigia trademark, then something very similar. Uh. Wija boards 234 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:31,440 Speaker 1: became part of popular culture more or less as soon 235 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:34,960 Speaker 1: as they were introduced. This isn't something new that like 236 00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:39,880 Speaker 1: grew along with our ability to consume retail items at 237 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:42,920 Speaker 1: a shocking rate. It has always kind of been in 238 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:47,920 Speaker 1: the public consciousness. Norman Rockwell featured one in a Saturday 239 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:51,120 Speaker 1: Evening Post illustration for the cover. It features a man 240 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:53,480 Speaker 1: and a woman seated knee to knee with a wija 241 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:56,920 Speaker 1: board spread across their laps. One of the big appeals 242 00:14:56,920 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 1: for wigia boards early on is that they were popular 243 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:03,320 Speaker 1: because the board set up had the requirement that the 244 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:08,120 Speaker 1: people involved would touch the plantchett uh and touch each 245 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:11,320 Speaker 1: other's knees, and all of this was creating a situation 246 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:15,280 Speaker 1: where there was a socially acceptable way for young couples 247 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:19,640 Speaker 1: to have kind of casual physical contacts. So which was 248 00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:22,520 Speaker 1: a little flirty as well. Yeah, I didn't go like 249 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:26,360 Speaker 1: dive into the story of this painting, which is what's 250 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:28,400 Speaker 1: going to be on our social media for this episode, 251 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:32,080 Speaker 1: but it definitely looks like a couple on a date. Like, yes, 252 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:36,240 Speaker 1: there's not really a different way to interpret it. There 253 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:41,320 Speaker 1: were even some advertisements that were like geared towards young 254 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:45,120 Speaker 1: men of like buy a Wigi board for your lady. 255 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:48,040 Speaker 1: It was definitely like you could have a date where 256 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:52,240 Speaker 1: you could touch her and it would not be considered untoward. 257 00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:57,880 Speaker 1: So not all the press appearances of the wegi board 258 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:00,520 Speaker 1: have been so charming, though. For more than a century, 259 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:03,960 Speaker 1: news accounts have included stories of people who used Wigi 260 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:08,600 Speaker 1: boards and ways that were considered questionable or silly, or 261 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:13,000 Speaker 1: sometimes even very dangerous. One of the earliest of these 262 00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:15,720 Speaker 1: that popped up in my research was a notice in 263 00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:19,320 Speaker 1: the Baltimore Sun about a divorce. This ran on March 264 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:23,640 Speaker 1: nineteen o five, so pretty early in all of this, 265 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:27,360 Speaker 1: and it read, quote, A decree of divorce separating Frank B. 266 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:31,360 Speaker 1: Aleck of Chicago from Mabel L. Aleck, now a resident 267 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:35,600 Speaker 1: of Columbus, Ohio, was amended today by Judge Aurora so 268 00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:37,840 Speaker 1: as to give custody of the child of the couple 269 00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:42,280 Speaker 1: to the husband. Mrs Aleck made no defense to charges 270 00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:45,360 Speaker 1: that she consulted a WIGI board to determine on her 271 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:50,760 Speaker 1: actions in one theuigia was central to a defamation case 272 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:54,640 Speaker 1: in Chicago, when Mrs Frank Walter sued one of her 273 00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:58,040 Speaker 1: friends for spreading rumors about her based on what the 274 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:03,640 Speaker 1: luigia had told her. Walter's friend, Mrs Albert Yost, claimed 275 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:06,760 Speaker 1: that her spirit board had identified Mrs Walter as the 276 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:10,320 Speaker 1: person who had burgled her home, and a quote to 277 00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:13,679 Speaker 1: the Chicago Tribune, Mrs Walter stated, quote, you see, she 278 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:18,280 Speaker 1: accused me of burglarizing her house in November fifteenth, nineteen nineteen, 279 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:23,080 Speaker 1: stealing raisins, salt and a couple of pounds of apricots. 280 00:17:23,080 --> 00:17:25,800 Speaker 1: She says she knows I did it because the Wegia 281 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:30,040 Speaker 1: told her Mrs Walter wanted ten thousand dollars for the 282 00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:33,879 Speaker 1: injury to her reputation, but she did not win that suit. 283 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:37,639 Speaker 1: It sounds like somebody was low on supplies to make 284 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:44,000 Speaker 1: chewy cookies and like, was it mice? Maybe I know right? Um. 285 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:47,200 Speaker 1: There is a very convoluted murder case in New York 286 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:50,040 Speaker 1: in nineteen thirty that also brought the wigia board into 287 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:53,440 Speaker 1: the courtroom as part of the killer's defense. This one 288 00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:56,680 Speaker 1: has some really tricky aspects to it, in a lot 289 00:17:56,680 --> 00:18:00,919 Speaker 1: of racism because the murderer, Mrs Nancy Bowen, was reportedly 290 00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:04,119 Speaker 1: a member of the Seneca Nations. And I'm saying reportedly 291 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:07,000 Speaker 1: because we don't know much more in terms of specifics, 292 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:11,199 Speaker 1: because news coverage of the day generally used descriptors of 293 00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:15,280 Speaker 1: her that would absolutely be considered slurs today and often 294 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:19,040 Speaker 1: have very little meaning. But Bowen did murder the wife 295 00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:23,439 Speaker 1: of sculptor Ri Merchant. The story gets more complicated because 296 00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:28,240 Speaker 1: another woman, Lillian Jemmerson, was said to have goaded Bowen 297 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 1: on through the use of awigia board. Using this novelty 298 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:37,920 Speaker 1: to convince Bowen that Clotil Marchian was a witch. Lillian, 299 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:41,800 Speaker 1: who went by Lila, had also provided the murder weapon, 300 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:45,800 Speaker 1: which was a hammer. Lila j Emmerson, who was also 301 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:50,280 Speaker 1: identified in reports as Seneca, posed from Martian in his 302 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:56,119 Speaker 1: sculptures representing people of Seneca Nation. During this trial, it 303 00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:59,400 Speaker 1: came out that Lila and Ari had been having an affair. 304 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:02,679 Speaker 1: Are Shan testified on the stand that many of the 305 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:06,240 Speaker 1: affairs he had had with what are simply referred to 306 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:09,800 Speaker 1: and pretty much all the articles as Native women was 307 00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:14,440 Speaker 1: a quote professional necessity, and that his wife had known 308 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:19,359 Speaker 1: about his extramarital relationships. This whole story is such a 309 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:26,159 Speaker 1: ball of things to get irate about validly, so um, 310 00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:29,480 Speaker 1: his professional necessity is like, well, that was the only 311 00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:31,399 Speaker 1: way I could get them to pose nude for me, 312 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:36,520 Speaker 1: to which I say, I don't like you. Um. There 313 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:39,520 Speaker 1: were two trials involved before all of this was said 314 00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:42,159 Speaker 1: and done, because the first was declared a mistrial. That 315 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:46,119 Speaker 1: was because Lilah became sick and they couldn't finish. Bowen 316 00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:50,600 Speaker 1: eventually played guilty to manslaughter. She, of course, uh was 317 00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:52,840 Speaker 1: found guilty because she had pled and she served one 318 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:57,480 Speaker 1: year in prison. Lillian Jimmerson was acquitted, but all of 319 00:19:57,520 --> 00:20:00,720 Speaker 1: the press coverage involved had the effect of enforcing to 320 00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:04,520 Speaker 1: social beliefs of the day. One was that the wigia 321 00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:07,920 Speaker 1: board was just a silly toy and more nefarious too, 322 00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 1: that Indigenous people were stupid enough to fall for the 323 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:17,240 Speaker 1: mythos that it was not. Marshawn incidentally married his deceased wife, Clote, 324 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:20,320 Speaker 1: Tilda's eighteen year old niece, not long after the second 325 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:25,000 Speaker 1: trial ended. Another murder in November of nineteen thirty three 326 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:29,480 Speaker 1: involved instructions from a weegia board, and this was especially tragic. 327 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:35,160 Speaker 1: Earnest J. Turley was shot by his fifteen year old daughter. Maddie. 328 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:38,760 Speaker 1: A teenager, testified that during a seance with her mother 329 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:41,760 Speaker 1: over a wegia board, the board had instructed her to 330 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:46,120 Speaker 1: shoot her father because their mother, Irene Turley, was destined 331 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:50,199 Speaker 1: to marry quote a young cowboy. Mattie also stated that 332 00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:53,159 Speaker 1: her mother had commented at the time that quote the 333 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:56,840 Speaker 1: board should not be denied. Maddie led guilty to an 334 00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:59,520 Speaker 1: attempted murder and juvenile court and was sent to a 335 00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:03,479 Speaker 1: reform school. Yeah, it's extra sad because when it happened. 336 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 1: He did not die immediately, and he presumed that it 337 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:10,280 Speaker 1: had been an accident that her gun had accidentally discharged. 338 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:13,879 Speaker 1: Dorothy Irene Turley that was her full name, who had 339 00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:16,800 Speaker 1: been a beauty queen in her youth that comes up 340 00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:19,760 Speaker 1: in all of the articles, was charged with intent to murder. 341 00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:22,879 Speaker 1: She tried to have this case dismissed several times but 342 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:26,280 Speaker 1: was unsuccessful, and in June of nineteen thirty four, after 343 00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:30,479 Speaker 1: sixteen hours of jury deliberation, Mrs Turley was found guilty. 344 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:33,000 Speaker 1: She was sentenced to ten to twenty five years in 345 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:36,920 Speaker 1: the state penitentiary. On a lighter note, the Luigia board 346 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:39,879 Speaker 1: appeared on I Love Lucy in nineteen fifty one in 347 00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:43,720 Speaker 1: an episode from the first season that's titled simply the Seance. 348 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:48,200 Speaker 1: The episode starts with Lucy talking about numerology to Ricky, 349 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:51,600 Speaker 1: but through a series of mad cap events, the Ricardo's 350 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:54,240 Speaker 1: end up hosting a seance in their home to help 351 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:57,480 Speaker 1: seal a business deal with the theatrical producer who was 352 00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:00,320 Speaker 1: into the spiritual and is trying to contact somebody named 353 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:04,680 Speaker 1: Tilly on the other side. This is obviously an old show, 354 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:08,560 Speaker 1: but it's just perpetually on in syndication and reruns and 355 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:10,879 Speaker 1: stuff everywhere. We don't want to spoil the ending in 356 00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:14,840 Speaker 1: case anybody listening wants to go watch it. The point though, really, 357 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:17,800 Speaker 1: besides the plots, just to show that the Wegia Board 358 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:21,840 Speaker 1: was not taken seriously at all. Lucy was just working 359 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:25,680 Speaker 1: this magic, pretending to be the voice of the spirit 360 00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:30,720 Speaker 1: a very obvious way. Yeah, that's not that's not the reveal. 361 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:33,239 Speaker 1: The reveal of that episode is very funny to me, 362 00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:35,800 Speaker 1: and I still laugh every time I see it, which 363 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:37,080 Speaker 1: is why I don't want to give it away in 364 00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:38,800 Speaker 1: case nobody has had it. I want you to have 365 00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:41,720 Speaker 1: that moment where you realize what's going on. Uh. And 366 00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:46,679 Speaker 1: in Night, Theligia Board was invoked in yet another legal case. 367 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:49,960 Speaker 1: This one is very odd and it involves a will. 368 00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:53,920 Speaker 1: When Helen dow Peck died in five at the age 369 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:57,520 Speaker 1: of eighty three, her relatives anticipated that she would have 370 00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:00,600 Speaker 1: left them each a portion of her pretty considerable fortune. 371 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:03,760 Speaker 1: But when Helen's will was read, there was a surprise 372 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:07,960 Speaker 1: in the form of a very unusual bequest. Peck left 373 00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:11,119 Speaker 1: the two members of her household staff one thousand dollars each, 374 00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:14,080 Speaker 1: and then the remainder of her money, a hundred and 375 00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:16,680 Speaker 1: seventy eight thousand dollars, was to go to a man 376 00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:20,720 Speaker 1: named John Gail Forbes, but no one knew who John 377 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:25,719 Speaker 1: Gail Forbes was, not even Mrs Peck. She included information 378 00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:27,920 Speaker 1: in her will that the name had been spelled out 379 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:30,359 Speaker 1: by a Wigia board when she and her late husband, 380 00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:33,800 Speaker 1: Frank Peck, had been playing with one almost forty years earlier. 381 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:38,199 Speaker 1: In nine Helen believed that Peck was a real person 382 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:40,399 Speaker 1: who was alive, and that he was in a mental 383 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:44,080 Speaker 1: institution because he was telepathic, and that he had used 384 00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:48,600 Speaker 1: that telepathy to contact her through the Wigia board. Initially, 385 00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:53,920 Speaker 1: although Pecks nieces and nephews contested the will, authorities insisted 386 00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:57,240 Speaker 1: that there be a thorough search for this John Gail Forbes. 387 00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:00,680 Speaker 1: They needed to go find him. Newspaper articles ran all 388 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:05,119 Speaker 1: across the country encouraging anyone named John Gail Forbes to 389 00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:08,600 Speaker 1: reach out. And although this strange bequest may have come 390 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:12,280 Speaker 1: as a total surprise to Helen's relatives, she had mentioned 391 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:15,200 Speaker 1: this man some of her closest friends over the years, 392 00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:19,000 Speaker 1: and among her effects were notes about each time she 393 00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:21,399 Speaker 1: believed she had had contact with him. And that dated 394 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:24,480 Speaker 1: back at least to the nineteen thirties. Helen had also 395 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:27,360 Speaker 1: made a provision in her will that if Mr. Forbes 396 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:30,359 Speaker 1: could not be found, the money should be used to 397 00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:34,680 Speaker 1: start a John Gail Forbes Memorial Fund. That fund would 398 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:38,800 Speaker 1: help identify people who were classified as insane but were 399 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:43,919 Speaker 1: actually telepathic. After several years of searching for any indication 400 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:47,959 Speaker 1: of Forbes being a real person, Peck's will was rejected 401 00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:50,879 Speaker 1: by the probate court. That happened in nineteen fifty eight, 402 00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:53,200 Speaker 1: and at that point her estate was split up among 403 00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:56,960 Speaker 1: her heirs. Now, I do love the idea of setting 404 00:24:57,040 --> 00:25:00,639 Speaker 1: up a memorial fund for a person that never existed 405 00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:06,160 Speaker 1: as a joke, and I'm just telling you I'm thinking 406 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:10,920 Speaker 1: hard and seriously about that. We are going to talk 407 00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:14,399 Speaker 1: next about the film that usually comes up as a 408 00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:17,760 Speaker 1: turning point in the wigi boards image after we first 409 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:20,199 Speaker 1: hear from the sponsors who keep stuff you missed in 410 00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:33,440 Speaker 1: history class. Going throughout the early twentieth century, even though 411 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:36,560 Speaker 1: there were, as we've noted, some serious legal cases that 412 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:39,720 Speaker 1: invoked the Wigia board, it still had kind of a 413 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:43,199 Speaker 1: silly reputation as a game, and when people claimed they 414 00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:45,800 Speaker 1: had used it to talk to spirits. They were usually 415 00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:49,960 Speaker 1: not taken seriously or they were simply written off as crazy. 416 00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:55,080 Speaker 1: But starting in nine three with the movie The Exorcist, 417 00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:58,399 Speaker 1: Wuiji boards started to be featured in horror films, and 418 00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:02,480 Speaker 1: suddenly there were plenty of people who seemed genuinely concerned 419 00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:06,000 Speaker 1: about the possibility that this game could open up access 420 00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:09,719 Speaker 1: to demonic spirits. In case you have not seen it, 421 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:12,359 Speaker 1: we're giving away nothing. It's at the very beginning in 422 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:15,200 Speaker 1: The Exorcist to the character of Reagan tells her mother 423 00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:17,800 Speaker 1: that she uses the Wigia board to talk to an 424 00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:22,000 Speaker 1: entity named Captain Howdy. In our episode on the case 425 00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:24,600 Speaker 1: of Roland Doe, that was the real world case that 426 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:27,359 Speaker 1: inspired the book and then the film The Exorcist, we 427 00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:29,879 Speaker 1: also talked about how the boy involved was said to 428 00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:32,280 Speaker 1: have been introduced to the Wigia Board by his aunt, 429 00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:35,439 Speaker 1: who he tried to contact through the board after her death, 430 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:38,000 Speaker 1: and that the church believed that that was how he 431 00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:42,480 Speaker 1: became possessed. Since then, the Wigia board has been characterized 432 00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:46,040 Speaker 1: as a more sinister tool of darkness and a variety 433 00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:49,760 Speaker 1: of media, including horror films. Some of them are simply 434 00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:53,920 Speaker 1: titled Wega There's also a very campy looking one titled 435 00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:57,919 Speaker 1: Weija Shark, which I had not heard of until Holly 436 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:02,240 Speaker 1: mentioned it. Holly has never watched there. I can't I 437 00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:05,119 Speaker 1: can't wait. I literally cannot wait. I was like yelling 438 00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:06,639 Speaker 1: at Brian in the middle of the night. I was like, 439 00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:11,119 Speaker 1: there's no Regia Shark movie. As I mentioned, though, the 440 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:14,359 Speaker 1: Wegia board is still sold as a novelty. I haven't 441 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:17,200 Speaker 1: been in a toy store or toy aisle in a while, 442 00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:21,640 Speaker 1: but I super remember seeing them next to things like Candyland. 443 00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:25,720 Speaker 1: This gets to the next question, though. If it's a novelty, right, 444 00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:28,399 Speaker 1: what is really happening when you play with a Wigia 445 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:32,280 Speaker 1: board or a similar game. There have been many, many 446 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:35,320 Speaker 1: different explanations given over the decades for how a Weigia 447 00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:38,440 Speaker 1: board works, and if you accept that it's nothing mystical, 448 00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:42,560 Speaker 1: then what explains the experiences that some people have when 449 00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:45,760 Speaker 1: using one. So it turns out there's been a pretty 450 00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:49,440 Speaker 1: clear sense of what is going on just about since 451 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:51,600 Speaker 1: the Wegi board first appeared on the market, or at 452 00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:55,320 Speaker 1: least there have been a number of pretty plausible ideas. 453 00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:59,879 Speaker 1: The Wegia board and its relatives were definitely not believe 454 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:03,960 Speaker 1: to be supernatural conduits by everybody. There were probably more 455 00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:08,400 Speaker 1: skeptics than believers even at the height of the spiritualist 456 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:12,400 Speaker 1: movement in the United States. Even before the Uigia board 457 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:17,280 Speaker 1: rose to popularity, scientists were examining the paranormal and supernatural 458 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:21,800 Speaker 1: through a critical and scientific lens. Dr A. Campbell Clark 459 00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:24,960 Speaker 1: wrote an article on automatic writing for the British Journal 460 00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:28,159 Speaker 1: of Medicine in eighteen ninety four, which opened with quote, 461 00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:31,480 Speaker 1: A good deal of brain energy has been and is 462 00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:35,959 Speaker 1: being expended in studying the phenomena of so called spiritualism. 463 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:38,880 Speaker 1: The hypnotic furor is replaced for the present by the 464 00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:43,600 Speaker 1: revival of the spiritualistic. But outside the throng so possessed 465 00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:46,920 Speaker 1: are thoughtful observers not carried away by the new cult, 466 00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:51,280 Speaker 1: observing and reflecting carefully and searching critically for the truth 467 00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:55,680 Speaker 1: through the maze of error and superstition. Automatic writing was 468 00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:59,400 Speaker 1: a popular element of spiritualist practices in the nineteenth and 469 00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:02,480 Speaker 1: early to one of centuries. The idea was that people 470 00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:06,600 Speaker 1: could write without consciously doing so, often in an almost 471 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:10,520 Speaker 1: trance like state. Sometimes a person would sit down with 472 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:13,640 Speaker 1: the necessary implements for writing and then would focus on 473 00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:17,200 Speaker 1: something else, usually something mystical in nature, with the hopes 474 00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:21,640 Speaker 1: that an automatic writing session would happen. While behaviors like 475 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:25,520 Speaker 1: automatic writing have been around for centuries and in other 476 00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:27,800 Speaker 1: parts of the world, in the time that the US 477 00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:31,080 Speaker 1: was in its spiritualism rise, it became very, very popular. 478 00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:33,600 Speaker 1: A lot of people believed it was a way that 479 00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:37,680 Speaker 1: the dead might speak through the living to physically convey 480 00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:41,960 Speaker 1: a message. Just as the plan chet's evolution from a 481 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:45,560 Speaker 1: pencil version to the pointer version used with the talking 482 00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:50,120 Speaker 1: board sped up the process of communication, it alleviated the 483 00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:55,120 Speaker 1: need to decipher scribbly writing. The talking board also offered 484 00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:59,640 Speaker 1: a faster tool than automatic writing, sort of side stepped 485 00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:03,360 Speaker 1: trying to make out anybody's penmanship. But the idea of 486 00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:09,240 Speaker 1: unconscious communication persisted here as well. There were definitely people 487 00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:11,680 Speaker 1: who believed that if you got to a place where 488 00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:14,240 Speaker 1: you were unconscious of the plant set and the board 489 00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:19,040 Speaker 1: before you, it would move unconsciously as a spirit communicated. 490 00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:22,440 Speaker 1: The Baltimore Sun ran a number of articles and op 491 00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:25,640 Speaker 1: ed pieces in the early twentieth century about the Wigi board, 492 00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:29,880 Speaker 1: which indicate pretty deep skepticism. Because the Wigi board is 493 00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:32,960 Speaker 1: considered to have been born in Baltimore. It makes sense 494 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:35,280 Speaker 1: that the Sun would have an ongoing interest in it 495 00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:39,760 Speaker 1: as the subject of articles. In February of nine nine, 496 00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:42,960 Speaker 1: the Wigia board is mentioned in a Baltimore Sun article 497 00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:46,840 Speaker 1: titled true Stories of the Supernatural Told by Readers of 498 00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:50,040 Speaker 1: the Sun. This one has sort of a scientific vent, 499 00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:53,880 Speaker 1: stating in the early paragraphs quote the strange force does 500 00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:56,480 Speaker 1: not lie in the Wigi board, the plant set, or 501 00:30:56,520 --> 00:31:00,640 Speaker 1: the table, but in some unexplained faculty of the human mind, 502 00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:05,280 Speaker 1: which is called into play by the quietude, the expectancy 503 00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:08,560 Speaker 1: and receptive nous of its attitude, the plant jet, or 504 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:12,800 Speaker 1: other instruments merely serving as a convenient means of expression. 505 00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:16,600 Speaker 1: This account, written by a reader going only by the 506 00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:19,760 Speaker 1: initials s M, is about using the wegia as a 507 00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:23,400 Speaker 1: tool to unlock psychic channels and describes the Wegia board 508 00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:27,840 Speaker 1: giving answers to questions posed to suggest that it is 509 00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:32,960 Speaker 1: quote hampered by your wills. The Baltimore Evening Sun included 510 00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:35,280 Speaker 1: a query about the function of the Wigia board in 511 00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:39,680 Speaker 1: its editor Answers section on August twenty three, nineteen eleven. 512 00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:42,560 Speaker 1: To the query can you explain to me how words 513 00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:46,000 Speaker 1: are spelled out on the Wigia board. The editor replied, quote, 514 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:48,880 Speaker 1: there is nothing at all occult or mysterious about the 515 00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:51,600 Speaker 1: Wigi board. Its motion is due to the fact that 516 00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:54,640 Speaker 1: few persons are able to keep their hands in so 517 00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:58,960 Speaker 1: constrained a position for any considerable time. Soon or late, 518 00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:01,360 Speaker 1: someone in the up is sure to move the board, 519 00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:04,920 Speaker 1: and once it starts, it keeps going. It spells out 520 00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:08,760 Speaker 1: definite words in two ways. Sometimes the strong, if not 521 00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:12,560 Speaker 1: fully conscious, desire of a believer helps it along. At 522 00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:16,120 Speaker 1: other times the stimulation is furnished by a humorous scoffer. 523 00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:20,640 Speaker 1: Both automatic writing and the spelling out of messages through 524 00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:24,080 Speaker 1: a wegia plant set have been analyzed from a scientific 525 00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:29,200 Speaker 1: point of view. This included as part of Freud's psychodynamic 526 00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:35,240 Speaker 1: theory because of Freud's theories were just kind of out there. 527 00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:41,040 Speaker 1: Has a note uh. It's come under criticism for a 528 00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:44,480 Speaker 1: variety of reasons. He may have been onto something with 529 00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:48,760 Speaker 1: psychodynamic theory, although the specific drivers of what he thought 530 00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:52,280 Speaker 1: was happening seem a little bit off. Freud believed that 531 00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:58,440 Speaker 1: people's unconscious behaviors are expressing childhood experiences like trauma, and 532 00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:01,120 Speaker 1: it does seem like the unconscio mind is an important 533 00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:03,680 Speaker 1: part of the puzzle, although it maybe more about things 534 00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:06,760 Speaker 1: you haven't realized you learned at some point in your 535 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:11,600 Speaker 1: life other than just a childhood experience. In more recent years, 536 00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:16,400 Speaker 1: some very interesting psychological experiments have been conducted as examinations 537 00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:20,160 Speaker 1: of the behavior in psychology of Wijia play. A team 538 00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:23,280 Speaker 1: of researchers from the University of British Columbia conducted a 539 00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:25,960 Speaker 1: series of tests using the Wigia board and had some 540 00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:32,040 Speaker 1: interesting findings. Study participants were asked questions about general knowledge topics, 541 00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:35,720 Speaker 1: things like capitals of countries or details or dates of 542 00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:38,560 Speaker 1: recent history events. These are pretty easy questions that most 543 00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:42,480 Speaker 1: people would know. Participants answered in two ways. In one 544 00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:45,120 Speaker 1: round they gave verbal answers and they were asked to 545 00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:48,760 Speaker 1: make guesses when they weren't sure. Then, in another round, 546 00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:52,040 Speaker 1: they were asked very similar questions, similar level of knowledge 547 00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:54,320 Speaker 1: they would need, but they gave the answers using a 548 00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:58,520 Speaker 1: Wigia board. The test participants believed they were playing with 549 00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:02,120 Speaker 1: another person. The other participant was a plant who was 550 00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:04,840 Speaker 1: not moving the plan chet. There's also a whole other 551 00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:07,040 Speaker 1: thing with a robot that I'll talk about behind the scenes, 552 00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:10,120 Speaker 1: but it's so hard to communicate and convey concisely that 553 00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:12,640 Speaker 1: I left it out of this. But on the round 554 00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:16,279 Speaker 1: where they verbally answered, participants got about half of the 555 00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:19,000 Speaker 1: questions right. But on the round where they had a 556 00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:22,520 Speaker 1: Wigi board involved, their success rate went up to sixty five. 557 00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:25,759 Speaker 1: That may not sound like much, but it's really a 558 00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:30,920 Speaker 1: significant difference. Ron Rensink, psychology and computer science professor, who 559 00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:33,600 Speaker 1: was one of the researchers who wrote the paper on it, 560 00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:36,640 Speaker 1: noted quote, if you don't think so, consider the difference 561 00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:39,719 Speaker 1: of playing Roulette when the odds are fifty fifty versus six. 562 00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:47,319 Speaker 1: I have various curiosities about, like how many people were 563 00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:50,440 Speaker 1: in this research and where they all psych majors getting 564 00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:56,640 Speaker 1: extra credit? Uh. This research team's work suggested that participants 565 00:34:56,640 --> 00:35:01,280 Speaker 1: were accessing non conscious knowledge things they knew but weren't 566 00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:04,680 Speaker 1: really aware that they knew. Sort of information that's been 567 00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:07,440 Speaker 1: stored in the mind but which a person can't consciously 568 00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:11,239 Speaker 1: pull up. The ideo motor effect is at play when 569 00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:14,440 Speaker 1: somebody uses the board meeting their unconscious mind is moving 570 00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:17,840 Speaker 1: the muscles needed to scoot the planchet around, so the 571 00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:20,839 Speaker 1: user might feel like they are not the one doing it, 572 00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:24,320 Speaker 1: even though it is their own body that's creating this motion. 573 00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:27,440 Speaker 1: And the findings of this study were published in the 574 00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:32,080 Speaker 1: journal Consciousness and Cognition. As researcher and co author Alleno 575 00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:35,520 Speaker 1: Shoe put it, quote, these surprising findings suggests we have 576 00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:39,880 Speaker 1: a powerful second intelligence resting beyond our conscious minds that 577 00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:43,400 Speaker 1: can be accessed under the right conditions. We may believe 578 00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:46,640 Speaker 1: we don't know an answer consciously, but actually have the 579 00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:49,840 Speaker 1: right answer there in our subconscious Maybe we heard it 580 00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:53,200 Speaker 1: on the radio but we weren't really paying attention in 581 00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:58,560 Speaker 1: Scott g. Everley, pH d, who specializes in American intellectual 582 00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:02,000 Speaker 1: history and has written ex sensibly about games and toys 583 00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:06,239 Speaker 1: and play, wrote an article about ideomotor action and the 584 00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:10,040 Speaker 1: Wigia Board for Psychology Today. At the end of the article, 585 00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:13,600 Speaker 1: he notes that not everyone wants science to explain away 586 00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:16,920 Speaker 1: their beliefs, and he offered a fun challenge, writing quote, 587 00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:20,560 Speaker 1: I've written about the Wegia board before, and afterward I 588 00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:23,719 Speaker 1: heard plenty from an adamant few who didn't like the 589 00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:27,440 Speaker 1: news that there are no such things as ghosts. In response, 590 00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:31,080 Speaker 1: I offered them this simple test of paranormal claims. Try 591 00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:35,560 Speaker 1: inviting the Wigia believer to wear a blindfold, then quietly 592 00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:38,840 Speaker 1: rotate the game half a turn, then ask some mischievous 593 00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:42,799 Speaker 1: questions of your own devising. Be nice now if your 594 00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:46,120 Speaker 1: subject has memorized the position of the letters or the 595 00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:49,640 Speaker 1: yes and no answers on purpose or not, I promise 596 00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:54,880 Speaker 1: you amusing and instructive results. There is a nice coda 597 00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:57,960 Speaker 1: to all of this that I wanted to include. There 598 00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:01,120 Speaker 1: has been a really positive outcome of the ongoing interest 599 00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:04,719 Speaker 1: Inligia boards because of the research work that historian Ron 600 00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:07,520 Speaker 1: Merch has done to tease out the actual facts about 601 00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:10,120 Speaker 1: William Fold in the board's origin. He has a whole, 602 00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:12,719 Speaker 1: huge website about William Fold which I read a lot 603 00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:16,040 Speaker 1: of um. The feuding sides of the family, though once 604 00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:20,839 Speaker 1: separated by William and Isaac's disagreements, have been reunited. Merch 605 00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:24,920 Speaker 1: told Baltimore Magazine in descendants of both William and Isaac 606 00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:28,200 Speaker 1: had reached out to him independently when he started sharing 607 00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:31,719 Speaker 1: his work online and eventually asked Merch to connect them. 608 00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:34,200 Speaker 1: They actually, it turned out, lived really close to each other, 609 00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:36,640 Speaker 1: and they are reported to have been quote getting together 610 00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:40,920 Speaker 1: regularly ever since. Just sort of a nice nice finale 611 00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:43,319 Speaker 1: to that part of the story, which is a bit 612 00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:47,320 Speaker 1: heartbreaking to know that two brothers and their business stuff 613 00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:54,200 Speaker 1: tore them apart. Um. I have listener mail one is 614 00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:57,799 Speaker 1: interesting because to me, uh, it involves the food that 615 00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:01,920 Speaker 1: is very autumnal, although it's not only autumnal, but it 616 00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:07,359 Speaker 1: puzzled me. They made me want to discuss it. Uh. 617 00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:10,160 Speaker 1: This is from our listener, Nick, who writes, Hello, ladies, 618 00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:13,320 Speaker 1: great podcast. Have listened to y'all since the start, including 619 00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:16,840 Speaker 1: the previous hosts you had mentioned recently, the cheese is 620 00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:19,640 Speaker 1: a good topping for apple pie. Have you ever heard 621 00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:23,400 Speaker 1: of dousing your pie in milk? My granddad on my 622 00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:26,000 Speaker 1: mom's side used to do both cheese and milk on 623 00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:29,080 Speaker 1: the outcast of my generation of the family because I 624 00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:32,319 Speaker 1: drowned my apple pie and milk. Generally, I prefer a 625 00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:35,640 Speaker 1: birthday pie instead of cake. Always Apple. Keep up the 626 00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:39,399 Speaker 1: good work. I enjoy it. Nick. I'm fascinated by this, 627 00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:41,759 Speaker 1: and I will confess that initially I was like, why 628 00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:44,359 Speaker 1: would you do that to pie? And then I was like, 629 00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:46,760 Speaker 1: you're kind of making pie cereal and that actually sounds 630 00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:53,040 Speaker 1: pretty good. I've never done this with milk, but there 631 00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:57,919 Speaker 1: have been some pies that I have put cream on. 632 00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:02,280 Speaker 1: Always it's somebody else's suggestion. Like we had this pie 633 00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:04,000 Speaker 1: and we had this cream, and it was like, let's 634 00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:06,440 Speaker 1: put some cream on the pie. Not whipped cream, like 635 00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:11,799 Speaker 1: liquid cream, like the poor pouring cream that you would 636 00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:17,480 Speaker 1: put in coffee. Yeah. Interesting, interesting, I mean that's naturally sweet. 637 00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:20,239 Speaker 1: So that actually makes sense to me, right, Like if 638 00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:22,440 Speaker 1: you get an Irish coffee in a bar, they're using 639 00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:24,960 Speaker 1: that cream because it naturally adds sweetness and you don't 640 00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:29,719 Speaker 1: have to add sugar. Um, this is it's fascinating to me. 641 00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:32,080 Speaker 1: I'm like, soggy pie not so much. But again then 642 00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:35,399 Speaker 1: I was like Cereal, I don't know, it's okay, it's okay. 643 00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:39,160 Speaker 1: I mean right, Like I used to love to mash 644 00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:41,719 Speaker 1: pie into ice cream and then kind of stir it 645 00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:44,000 Speaker 1: until I made ice cream soup, which isn't that far 646 00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:48,680 Speaker 1: afield from this, So I understand. And now I want 647 00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:50,640 Speaker 1: to make a pumpkin pie and then mash it into 648 00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:55,440 Speaker 1: various creamy substances and see what I like. Really, I 649 00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:58,440 Speaker 1: just want excuse to see pumpkin pie. Um. That was 650 00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:00,960 Speaker 1: a very brief email, so I will I also read 651 00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:03,440 Speaker 1: another brief one. This one is from our listener Bryce, 652 00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:06,640 Speaker 1: who writes, I just finished listening to the second part 653 00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:09,200 Speaker 1: of the Charles Chapin episode, and I was not expecting 654 00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:12,000 Speaker 1: to make a personal connection with the episode, but then 655 00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:15,200 Speaker 1: you brought up the USS Main's explosion in Havannah Harbor. 656 00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:19,120 Speaker 1: My third grade uncle, Charles Dwight Sixby, was the captain 657 00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:21,799 Speaker 1: of the USS main when it sank. That story was 658 00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:23,920 Speaker 1: one of my favorites to hear my great grandmother tell 659 00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:26,840 Speaker 1: me whenever I visited or growing up, although her telling 660 00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:29,560 Speaker 1: never included that Charles was wrong and the main was 661 00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:32,799 Speaker 1: not exploded by a Spanish mine. I'm a huge fan 662 00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:34,719 Speaker 1: of the podcast. They keep me entertained on my long 663 00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:37,200 Speaker 1: commute to work. I look forward to every new episode 664 00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:39,560 Speaker 1: that comes out. I will pay the kittie tax and 665 00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:43,400 Speaker 1: include pictures of my two cats. Meogatron, which is the 666 00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:46,120 Speaker 1: best cat name, is a four or five year old 667 00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:49,080 Speaker 1: tortoise tabby mix who loves me from a distance. And 668 00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:51,919 Speaker 1: then I recently adopted a year old gray American bob 669 00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:56,600 Speaker 1: Tale named Sebastian. These cats are really painfully cute. I 670 00:40:56,640 --> 00:41:00,600 Speaker 1: love a bob Tale. They're so sweet. Um, and you 671 00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:06,719 Speaker 1: know torties have their own feelings about the world, and you, you, uh, 672 00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:09,759 Speaker 1: you kind of have to play by their rules. Uh. 673 00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:13,080 Speaker 1: Thank you so much to both of our listeners. She 674 00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:14,640 Speaker 1: sent us mail this week. If you would like to 675 00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:16,880 Speaker 1: write to us, you can do so at History Podcast 676 00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:19,160 Speaker 1: at iHeart radio dot com. You can also find us 677 00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:21,600 Speaker 1: on social media as Missed in History, and you can 678 00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:25,280 Speaker 1: subscribe to the podcast on the iHeart radio app wherever 679 00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:32,759 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows. Stuff you Missed in 680 00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:35,560 Speaker 1: History Class is a production of I heart Radio. For 681 00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:38,919 Speaker 1: more podcasts from i Heeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, 682 00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:42,200 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.