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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff

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Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to bow your Mind.

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Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Julie Douglas. Julie,

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Speaker 1: let's let's let's set the stage here. Okay, let's go

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Speaker 1: to your cubicle. What does your cubicle look like? My cubicle, Julie.

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Speaker 1: I think it's got probably all of the trappings of

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Speaker 1: your typical office worker. It's got some personal photos, stacks

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Speaker 1: of books and papers. But um, it does have a

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Speaker 1: big sign that says cloaca av Yeah. Um, of course

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Speaker 1: we can thank Cooper for that, and that that I

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Speaker 1: think really telegraphed to people like, hey, this is my territory. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you have some weird bits of art thrown in there.

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Speaker 1: I have some fan art that's awesome. And then I

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Speaker 1: have a tiger bearing its jaws like a little figurine.

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Speaker 1: And again in I feel like the tiger and the

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Speaker 1: sign and all of these little things are ways of

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Speaker 1: saying this is my corner of the street, and uh,

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Speaker 1: you know this is this is my area and my dwelling.

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Speaker 1: And I should point out that our cubicles are really

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Speaker 1: more like what half of a hexagon. Really, it's like

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Speaker 1: it's the three walls, but there's they're a little more spacious. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they're not too bad. They're gray, um, but but they

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Speaker 1: don't look like the office space um TV movie cubicle

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Speaker 1: type of thing. It's it's a little better than that.

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Speaker 1: I think, Oh, you're saying this a little bit jazz here.

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Speaker 1: I think it's jazz here. It's a little bit more angles. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but it doesn't look it's not as nearly as soul crushing,

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Speaker 1: and it feels a little more open. We have a

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Speaker 1: fair amount of death space, um. And I have my

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Speaker 1: walls of my little area decorated with bits of art,

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Speaker 1: you know. So I have like some you know, I

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Speaker 1: think a Tibetan calendar up and some fantasy arts and

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Speaker 1: various bits and pieces that that sort of allow my

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Speaker 1: imagination to run wild. And most of it is is

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Speaker 1: like a agreeable to the workplace. You've forgotten the best

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Speaker 1: part of your cubicle the oh the sand Worm avenue,

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Speaker 1: that was the one that the bookshelf that's next to

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Speaker 1: the bookshelf, which is your fortress against the world. But

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Speaker 1: in addition to that is the painting of Biscuit cat Yes,

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Speaker 1: my sister Lucy, Lucy Lamb, she painted a picture of

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Speaker 1: my cat Biscuit, and that's up there with the one eye.

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Speaker 1: That's she doesn't really have one red eye. She has

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Speaker 1: one bad eye, but in the in the painting it's

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Speaker 1: it's red and kind of magical looking. So yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: going to shoot. That's definitely one of the prize pieces

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Speaker 1: that I have with me at work, you know, along

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Speaker 1: with some other personal momentos. All right, Uh, I'm thinking

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Speaker 1: you guys have guessed that today's topic is all about

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Speaker 1: our workspaces are cubicles, how we dwell in them, what

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Speaker 1: is dwelling in them, and perhaps even the future of

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Speaker 1: office space. Yes, and I would I would have to

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Speaker 1: advise anyone listening to this at their cubicle, at their

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Speaker 1: their their workspace. UM, prepared to to feel a little

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Speaker 1: weird about your work environment. Prepare to um perhaps run

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Speaker 1: out to the store and buy some uh some sort

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Speaker 1: of clean up wipes to scrub everything down, because we're

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Speaker 1: gonna get into not only your human co workers here,

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Speaker 1: but your microbial will coworkers and all the creepy Crawley's

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Speaker 1: that invisibly make up your workspace. Yeah, because let's let's uh,

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Speaker 1: let's be honest about it, that we have this whole

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Speaker 1: microbial kingdom that is surrounding us, not just on our

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Speaker 1: bodies and inside our bodies, but every single space that

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Speaker 1: you touch, every single thing from that elevator button up

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Speaker 1: to the floor that you work on. And indeed, we've

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Speaker 1: talked before about just all the microbes that our body

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Speaker 1: is carrying. I mean just our mouth again, five hundred

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Speaker 1: with thousand different types of bacteria. Uh, only a hundred

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Speaker 1: to two hundred live in a mouth at any given time,

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Speaker 1: and we all have these different um bacterial, floral environments

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Speaker 1: going on inside us. And then we bring these environments

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Speaker 1: and a host of other things into these workspaces. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there is a study called office space Bacterial Abundance and

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Speaker 1: Diversity in three metropolitan areas. It's a study by Christie m.

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Speaker 1: Hewitt and Charles Gerba at All and they found that

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Speaker 1: most of the bacteria in an office originates from the

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Speaker 1: workers themselves, right, which is I mean, of course we

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Speaker 1: track everything in it's spread by coughing, sneezing, and shedding

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Speaker 1: of the skin. And by the way, there are dust

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Speaker 1: mites that are there waiting for these little skin flakes

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Speaker 1: to fall so they can feast upon them. Yeah. One

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Speaker 1: of the things that kept coming back to in researching

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Speaker 1: this podcast and the other one that we're recording today,

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Speaker 1: is that we really have this this false notion in

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Speaker 1: our heads that I mean, it's it's largely a false

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Speaker 1: notion that I feel like the more we learn about

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Speaker 1: and the more educated we each of us individually are,

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Speaker 1: the less we buy into this this false idea. But

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Speaker 1: it's the sense that there's the outside world with all

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Speaker 1: the things that live in it, all the things that

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Speaker 1: can kill us, all the things that are gross and yucky,

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Speaker 1: and then we're going to create these pristine indoor environments

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Speaker 1: that are holy and uh. And in this space, I

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Speaker 1: am the only thing that is living. I'm cut off

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Speaker 1: from all this annoying nature and it's just me. I

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Speaker 1: don't have to worry about mosquitoes swarming me. I don't

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Speaker 1: have to worry about other parasites climbing up. I don't

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Speaker 1: have to worry about things um swooping down off of

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Speaker 1: dog poop. I don't know why they need to swoop down.

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Speaker 1: Maybe the dogs are climbing trees now, But but still

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Speaker 1: that the example still holds true that we think of

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Speaker 1: our indoor environments as something special and something clean, and

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Speaker 1: in reality we just created another equally occupied artificial environment.

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Speaker 1: It's just that the things that get to live there

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Speaker 1: are the things that we bring in with us, so

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Speaker 1: they become this kind of zoo, this kind of mutated

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Speaker 1: we're not really mutated, but out of control zoo of

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Speaker 1: human flora. Well, it is a bit of a zoo,

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Speaker 1: and it is a bit of a mutation because when

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Speaker 1: you are controlling your environment like that, then you have

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Speaker 1: certain microbes that are going to subsist rather than other ones. Yes, yeah,

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Speaker 1: so yeah mutated. I did. I just didn't want to

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Speaker 1: make anybody think that these things were actually like a

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Speaker 1: genetic level, but in terms of an environmental mutation, I

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Speaker 1: think that would probably hold true. So of course this

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Speaker 1: would lead you to begin to wonder, like, where would

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Speaker 1: all of these germs in office building be hiding out?

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Speaker 1: Um researchers at Kimberly Clart Professional they used a molecular

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Speaker 1: detection method to gauge the germ count, and typical office

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Speaker 1: spaces in the areas that garnered the highest amount of

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Speaker 1: terms of them were dwelling in the brake room sink

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Speaker 1: faucet handles, which we all touch without thinking about it

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Speaker 1: and too much. No one will be surprised by this.

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Speaker 1: Forty eight percent of those germs were hanging out on

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Speaker 1: the microwave door handles, uh, keyboards, in refrigerator door handles,

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Speaker 1: and then of course you've got water fountains at about

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Speaker 1: the same rate in vending machine buttons, and so I

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Speaker 1: don't think any of that is a surprise because I

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Speaker 1: don't know about you guys out there, but if you're

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Speaker 1: office has a microwave and people use it a lot,

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Speaker 1: perhaps there's lots of evidence of that, and it's extremely

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Speaker 1: dirty and corroded with food, you know the inside is

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Speaker 1: going to be gross. But you did not have to

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Speaker 1: think about the handle so much. I don't know, because

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Speaker 1: I just think that's evidence of like it's getting used

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Speaker 1: every day. It's probably gonna use twenty times a day,

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Speaker 1: and then you know, right then, all the muck that's

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Speaker 1: stuck up in there is is a good indication that

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Speaker 1: this thing is getting a lot of play. Petrified tomato

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Speaker 1: sauce and all that. Well, you know, I would have

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Speaker 1: easily guessed keyboard because obviously we're touching our keyboards all

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Speaker 1: the time, and used I don't really eat snack mix anymore,

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Speaker 1: but I used to be like really into snack mix,

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Speaker 1: and U and I would have that horrifying time when

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Speaker 1: I realized like something had fallen through and I'm like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I need to get that kernel of nut out of

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Speaker 1: my keyboard. And then I turned it upside down and

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Speaker 1: it's like just a rain of filth that comes out

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Speaker 1: of it, and then I then I have to clean everything. Um.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, any space that individuals throughout your office are

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Speaker 1: coming into contact with on a daily basis, it's going

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Speaker 1: to accumulate. Even though it looks clean. I mean it

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Speaker 1: looks super smooth and polished because all those fingers are

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Speaker 1: rubbing it with their oil. Well, the thing I was

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Speaker 1: surprised about is that in your own personal space, that

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Speaker 1: your chair is actually ripe with bacteria your phone That

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Speaker 1: makes sense, yeah, yeah, yeah, I was reading that. Um,

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Speaker 1: if you make a telephone call, about one twenty seven

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Speaker 1: microbes per square inch are present, So that makes it

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Speaker 1: one of the grimeer things just in your desk environment.

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Speaker 1: Eavesdropping on your phone call. Well yeah maybe, and let's

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Speaker 1: say bacteria. But back to chairs. UM studies pointed out

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Speaker 1: that we're looking at that individuals do um fart in

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Speaker 1: the chipping in their chairs apparently. I mean, I think

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Speaker 1: it's a little rude, especially if you're you're seated next

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Speaker 1: to people. But um, I mean that's that's where the

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Speaker 1: business happens. So there's gonna be a certain amount of

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Speaker 1: bacteria or at least that way. UM and uh. One

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Speaker 1: of the studies that were looking at actually UM brought

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Speaker 1: gender into this, which flows naturally from the farting discussion

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Speaker 1: because we've talked before about possible gender biases regarding flatulens

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Speaker 1: or flatus if you will, UM that that men are

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Speaker 1: going to be more apt to just let it rip,

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Speaker 1: and then females are gonna be more conservative and perhaps

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Speaker 1: uh go somewhere else and do it in with some

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Speaker 1: sense of decorum. But according to researchers at San Diego

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Speaker 1: State University in the University of Arizona UM, the services

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Speaker 1: in men's offices had ten to more germs than their

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Speaker 1: female counterparts. So and the idea here is that maybe

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Speaker 1: just men are a little more gross than women. Well,

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Speaker 1: there was another idea that arting and also just clutter

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Speaker 1: and eating gross things over the keyboard and everything. Well,

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Speaker 1: it was a hygiene question where they're washing their hands

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Speaker 1: as much. But the other question was could it be

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Speaker 1: that on average, men have more surface area of skin

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Speaker 1: and therefore more micro That's that's the other side of this.

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Speaker 1: Maybe they're just eager they have more skin. And again,

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Speaker 1: most of the stuff is coming in on our skin,

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Speaker 1: and our skin is constantly, let's face it, falling apart

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Speaker 1: and shedding to tiny little pieces of dead skin and

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Speaker 1: just leaving these flakes everywhere. So more skin, more awful

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Speaker 1: stuff that you're bringing in and dropping all over the office.

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Speaker 1: I just wanted to throw that in there because I

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Speaker 1: feel like sometimes the guys that I were listening to

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Speaker 1: this podcast, they're like, man, so not only am I'm

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Speaker 1: more likely to get struck by lightning, but I have

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Speaker 1: more germs on me and possibly my uh y chromosome

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Speaker 1: is just gonna go EXTINCTOI. Yeah, and you're just a

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Speaker 1: mutation necessary to the species as opposed to the female,

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Speaker 1: which is the true um version of the Homo sapien,

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Speaker 1: the cleaner version, or perhaps not. Alright, uh so let's

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Speaker 1: take a quick break and when we get back, we're

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Speaker 1: gonna talk a little bit about stick building syndrome, and

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Speaker 1: then we are going to talk about the utopian vision

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Speaker 1: of the cubicle. All right, we're back and uh yeah,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna jump in a little more here. But first

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Speaker 1: I want to just run through a couple of quick factoids.

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Speaker 1: Some of these come from our our article about cube

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Speaker 1: death and how stuffworks dot com. You check that out.

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Speaker 1: Molly Edmonds, I believe wrote that one, yes, death by cubicle,

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Speaker 1: death by cubicle, but restaurants with surfaces that contain more

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Speaker 1: than seven hundred bacteria for square intra considered unsanitary. But

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Speaker 1: the typical office workers hands come in contact with ten

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Speaker 1: million bacteria a day. That also flows in nicely with

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Speaker 1: the fact that the average kitchen table, uh it tends

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Speaker 1: to be more clean than a desk because it's getting

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Speaker 1: wiped down all the time. We're just you're supposed to

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Speaker 1: after you eat their um, their crumbs, so you wipe

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Speaker 1: it down. But the same thing is happening with your desk.

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Speaker 1: People are eating at their desk. I eat at my

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Speaker 1: desk and I don't wipe it down each time, so

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Speaker 1: it's really horrible. From that same article, it turns out

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Speaker 1: that toilets are actually cleaner the toilets in the offices

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Speaker 1: because at least they're getting some level of cleaning. Well,

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Speaker 1: and if it's like ours, they're probably getting clean twice

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Speaker 1: a day, right, as opposed to your desk, which gets

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Speaker 1: cleaned maybe once a year. Another study found that teachers

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Speaker 1: or of course the grimiest profession because they have to

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Speaker 1: come into contact with with the human but but a

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Speaker 1: cubicalle dwelling accountants came in second because their desk racked

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Speaker 1: up six thousand and thirty bacteria or square inch. So

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Speaker 1: that's pretty pretty impressive. I saw on another list that

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Speaker 1: lawyers were the lowest on the list. Uh why is

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Speaker 1: that they just kicking back? They're not touching anything. I

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Speaker 1: don't know. This is the create your own lawyer joke

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Speaker 1: portion of the of the podcast. Have that guys right here?

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Speaker 1: Okay they inserted in that that space. Um, you know,

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Speaker 1: another thing to keep in mind too, about the all

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Speaker 1: the junke that we bring into the office place. Uh

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Speaker 1: the bottom of the feet And I think about this

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Speaker 1: sometimes it really makes me pine for like a shoeless

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Speaker 1: office place, kind of like Cooper's office on a Madman

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Speaker 1: Eastern style approach when they enter his his office, because

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Speaker 1: you know, obviously we're walking all over the place and

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Speaker 1: these things stepping on horrible, horrible substances and and uh

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Speaker 1: and bacteria and urine and bubble gum and food and

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Speaker 1: your name it. Yeah, chemicals, horrible pathogens. And it's also

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Speaker 1: worth pointing out that every time you step down, you

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Speaker 1: pressurize the air that's in your shoes, So you can

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Speaker 1: think of this as kind of like a shoe fart.

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Speaker 1: You stopped down, you scored a little warm air, carrying

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Speaker 1: a foot microbiology out. So just in the course of

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Speaker 1: walking around the office, we're tracking in crud that we've

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Speaker 1: been walking through, you know, on on the train, in

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Speaker 1: the street, up while walking the dog, and then when

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Speaker 1: we get in, we're shoe farting all this, uh, this

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Speaker 1: microbiology all over the place. So think about that, well,

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Speaker 1: I mean, this is what creates a nice, uh thick

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Speaker 1: ecosystem of microbes to work in. I also wanted to

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Speaker 1: mention that, in addition to to all these microbes, sometimes

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Speaker 1: you will see references to sick building syndrome or occupational asthma.

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Speaker 1: And this is experiencing asthmatic symptoms like t eyes or

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Speaker 1: coughing while at work. And it makes up about ten

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Speaker 1: percent of asthma cases in the US, and it is

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Speaker 1: estimated to be responsible for twenty four point five millions

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Speaker 1: sick days annually. Uh. This is according to Lisa Balcon,

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Speaker 1: who's running for the New York Times. So there's this

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Speaker 1: idea that when you create this microbialist in the office, uh,

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Speaker 1: that you're creating conditions that can certainly weaken your health.

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Speaker 1: Um cause asthmatic reactions. And there's also sick building syndrome,

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Speaker 1: in which a moldy or a poorly ventilated office causes headaches, fatigue,

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Speaker 1: and nausea, just to name a couple of symptoms. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because you have this shut off environment, and to what

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Speaker 1: degree you're actually ventilating it, bringing in clean air or

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Speaker 1: are you just sort of cycling the whole sickness around. Well,

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Speaker 1: as you say, we've shut out the outdoors, so we

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Speaker 1: have limited our environment. We've really skewed it because at

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Speaker 1: least when you're outdoors and maybe you live in a

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Speaker 1: city that's fairly polluted, Um, you're still getting some movement

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Speaker 1: there in those that cloud of microbes is dissipating. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and we're bringing in these uh, these toxic substances, often

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Speaker 1: from carpet, furniture, paint, um, other items such as the

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Speaker 1: You remember the war of the lavender um um air

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Speaker 1: freshener here at work. Yes, it seemed the last months,

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Speaker 1: but it was. It was a synthetic lavender air freshener

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Speaker 1: and it was permeating the office. Yeah, because lavender, natural

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Speaker 1: lavender is a beautiful smell. I love lavender, but this

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Speaker 1: is that artificial chemical lavendar that you can just you

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Speaker 1: feel killing your brain cells every every whiff you take.

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Speaker 1: And it was there. There was there was a war

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Speaker 1: just to keep it short between the air freshener and

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Speaker 1: those of us who didn't. And that is a good

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Speaker 1: example of some of the aggression that we see in

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Speaker 1: these more open office concepts. And we'll talk about that

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Speaker 1: in a moment, but yes, that's that's certainly something that

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Speaker 1: you are introducing into the environment. Or why was why

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Speaker 1: was the lavender airfrashner there? Because that particular office was

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Speaker 1: haunted by Funk It had not Well, what I think

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Speaker 1: is fascinating about all of this, because it's sort of

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Speaker 1: sprouts from this whole cubicle culture, is that the cubicle

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Speaker 1: was introduced as this sort of utopian idea of an office, uh,

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Speaker 1: space that someone could really like cling to and spread

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Speaker 1: out and and be as creative and productive as possible.

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Speaker 1: And when I'm talking about this utopian office vision, I'm

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Speaker 1: talking about Robert Props. He was a director of research

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Speaker 1: for Herman Miller, the furniture company, and he created something

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Speaker 1: called the Action office. So think about think about cubicles now, right,

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Speaker 1: just these squares essentially or our fancy like right angle ones,

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Speaker 1: and uh, think about this vision that he had that

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Speaker 1: he created, which was really more of like these half walls,

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Speaker 1: but that was there so that you could pin up

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Speaker 1: projects and then all these different and have a little

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Speaker 1: privacy when you needed privacy. Yeah, and then um a

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Speaker 1: lot of desk space with different components you could add

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Speaker 1: on to it, like bookshelves and so on and so forth,

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Speaker 1: so that the person who was working there could spread out, um,

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Speaker 1: could have all the things that they needed at hand. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: make it their own. You don't have to. You're not

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Speaker 1: ruled by that in and out box. And you would

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Speaker 1: have varying levels of workspace so that you can you

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Speaker 1: can sit down and you can and you can also

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Speaker 1: stand up and work. And of course that's growing more

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Speaker 1: and more popular these days with the individuals who want

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Speaker 1: to stand and work all day. Right. I mean it

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Speaker 1: was very forward thinking, but now this is what used

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Speaker 1: to exist before cubicles, and we're talking about those open

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Speaker 1: bullpens where there were really small dusks like think about

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Speaker 1: school desks that were just lined up one after that

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Speaker 1: there with no privacy. So in a sense, this this

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Speaker 1: utopian vision was a vast improvement. Sounds great, right, So

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Speaker 1: what happened? Where did it all go wrong? Well, with

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Speaker 1: the problem. The main problem here is that you're taking

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Speaker 1: an ideal and you're you're going to work that into

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Speaker 1: a business environment and into a business plan. You're going

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Speaker 1: to deal with space constraints, you're gonna deal with budget constraints,

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Speaker 1: and you're gonna end up with a product that looks

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Speaker 1: significantly different. Right, because we're talking about the late sixties here,

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Speaker 1: we're an increased workforce. We're talking about Uh, the real

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Speaker 1: estate costs just skyrocketing too. So they had to solve

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Speaker 1: that and they looked at this company, Herman Miller, a

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Speaker 1: lot of corporations, and said, can I cherry pick that

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Speaker 1: configuration to just choose what I want? Because if you do,

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Speaker 1: you you run into not not an excellent means of

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Speaker 1: creating an open workspace for your employee, but a way

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Speaker 1: of cramming more people into a given space and while

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Speaker 1: still providing them basically the workspace they needed to work.

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Speaker 1: And that's where this lovely idea of this action office

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Speaker 1: just was cherry picked to death and then eventually reconfigured

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Speaker 1: so that it just got smaller and smaller and smaller

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Speaker 1: until it became this corporate sardine can plan, these little

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Speaker 1: gray cells that you you slide yourself into. I was

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Speaker 1: looking at pictures of them because I sometimes forget what

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Speaker 1: they look like because I don't I've never worked in

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Speaker 1: a in a space that really had them. Um, because

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Speaker 1: I was in news newsrooms before this. I was working

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Speaker 1: for newspapers, and newspapers generally go with the open office.

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Speaker 1: So environment, because you're all working together, you're yelling at

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Speaker 1: each other, you're breaking into tears, um, you're collaborating on

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Speaker 1: this project on a deadline, and there's you know, there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of there's a certain amount of time wasting,

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Speaker 1: but a lot of just let's get this done. It's

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Speaker 1: so it's it's a cool environment, but it's not definitely

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Speaker 1: not a cubical environment. And then here, of course we

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Speaker 1: have this altered cubical environment we've described already. So uh

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Speaker 1: but but looking at these images, it really is soul

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Speaker 1: crushing some of these. I mean, it's just looks like

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Speaker 1: a cell and it has dominated the office landscape for

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Speaker 1: thirty years. That being said, now employers are going back

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Speaker 1: to this more um open bullpen configuration. So that's where

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Speaker 1: we begin to introduce a bunch of different problems, right

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Speaker 1: because here we're talking about the open office open office.

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Speaker 1: We've actually seen it parodied in recent TV shows like

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Speaker 1: Arrested Development the most recent season they have like this

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Speaker 1: basically a warehouse with this with like death spread out

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Speaker 1: across these spaces. Um parks and wreck had had that

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Speaker 1: business that John Ralphaeo and uh and disease open. That's

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Speaker 1: a huge space with all you know, like a desk

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Speaker 1: here and yeah, and it's become sort of a cliche

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Speaker 1: of startups. It has, and you know, various companies handle

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Speaker 1: things differently. There are some that will actually not have

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Speaker 1: any assigned seatings, so when you show up, you just

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Speaker 1: check out your laptop and then you go you go

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Speaker 1: to a desk check out a laptop for the day,

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Speaker 1: and then go find a place to sit. Yes, let's

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Speaker 1: let's make the workspace as much like a middle school

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Speaker 1: cafeteria as possible, because we all have fond memories of that.

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Speaker 1: Right now, I think the reason why employers are going

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Speaker 1: to this is one. It's really cheap. Right. You have

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Speaker 1: no walls, you have no partitions, you don't have to

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Speaker 1: worry about a ton of office furniture. Do the managers

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Speaker 1: still have closed off offices? I assume they do because

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Speaker 1: they have to have. Yeah, well not all, but there

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Speaker 1: are some companies where managers are out there with everybody

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Speaker 1: and there are no It just depends on So I

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Speaker 1: can feel better about about it if if the managers

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Speaker 1: rolling this out, Um, we're partaking of this new environment,

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Speaker 1: because a lot of times it feels like I have

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Speaker 1: this great idea for you guys. You're not gonna have

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Speaker 1: offices or cubicles. You're just gonna sort of exists in

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Speaker 1: a comfy space. If you need me, I'll be in

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Speaker 1: my office. Yeah, but offices are necessary because you have

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Speaker 1: to have some measure of privacy. Oh no, no, I'm

402
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Speaker 1: I'm a big believer in office because if you have.

403
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Speaker 1: If someone's gonna be fired, it needs to happen in office.

404
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Speaker 1: If someone's gonna be in you for a job, it

405
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Speaker 1: probably needs to have an inside of an office, So

406
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Speaker 1: off closed offices are necessary. Um And I think that

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Speaker 1: the privacy afforded by the right kind of cubicle is

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Speaker 1: is certainly necessary to my work environment. Like I can't

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Speaker 1: imagine if we were all setting around on bean bags here,

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Speaker 1: um and I was having to to try and work

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Speaker 1: on a laptop while Jonathan Stricklan shoots basketball and tells

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Speaker 1: me about his weekend, I would lose my mind. Uh.

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Speaker 1: I think though, that this is a trend that is

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Speaker 1: going to continue, because again it's a it comes down

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Speaker 1: to money and the The other part of this is

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Speaker 1: that so many companies are beginning to or have already

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Speaker 1: adopted pretty robust teleworking policy. Why waste the money and

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Speaker 1: the space on on on me having a designated office

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Speaker 1: space or of a designated cubicle if I'm only in

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Speaker 1: once a week, twice a week, three times a week,

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Speaker 1: which is where you have an unassigned desk space, and

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Speaker 1: it sort of makes sense because if you're only going

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Speaker 1: to be in a couple of days a week. Well,

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Speaker 1: then great, and it's sort of it is a fair

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Speaker 1: trade up. I would feel. It's like it's hard to

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Speaker 1: complain about about that if you were getting multiple telework

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Speaker 1: days per week and they said, oh, by the way,

428
00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:08,240
Speaker 1: you don't really get to have your own office anymore, right, right,

429
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:10,920
Speaker 1: you really get to have your own designated space. Now,

430
00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:13,800
Speaker 1: this is probably something that a lot of listeners are experiencing. Um.

431
00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:15,680
Speaker 1: And I say that because, according to Susan Caine and

432
00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:17,880
Speaker 1: her New York Times article The Rise of the New

433
00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:22,200
Speaker 1: Group Think, virtually all American workers now spend time on teams.

434
00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:24,960
Speaker 1: That's a that's a new thing, right, teams were you know,

435
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:28,960
Speaker 1: you're not just working individually anymore. And some seventy inhabit

436
00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:32,760
Speaker 1: these open plan offices, which she says, no one has

437
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:35,199
Speaker 1: a room of their own. Well, you know, back to

438
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:37,520
Speaker 1: what I was talking about newsrooms and you if you

439
00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:40,880
Speaker 1: worked their newsrooms, have you so so again? Like that's

440
00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:44,159
Speaker 1: the type of operation where an open workspace makes perfect

441
00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:47,120
Speaker 1: sense because it is a team effort to get this done.

442
00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:49,280
Speaker 1: There's a there's a certain amount of leave me alone

443
00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:53,399
Speaker 1: while I write my my paper, right righte? My article? Um,

444
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:55,440
Speaker 1: and the old days you used to go cigarette me

445
00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:57,760
Speaker 1: and they would sick a cigarette in your mouth. That's

446
00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:00,480
Speaker 1: what the old timing we're telling me. Um, I'm sure

447
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:02,439
Speaker 1: I can see it. And it's a very I like

448
00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:06,040
Speaker 1: the I like the environment of the newsroom because I

449
00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:08,239
Speaker 1: think that it's very intense and it gets it can

450
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:10,040
Speaker 1: get very loud. I can sort of like when the

451
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:14,000
Speaker 1: anxiety rises, so too does the volume of the voices.

452
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:17,320
Speaker 1: But I was very good at just blocking all that out.

453
00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:20,040
Speaker 1: And because you know, when your heads down, your heads down. UM.

454
00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:22,320
Speaker 1: I had a co worker by the name I'm going

455
00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:25,080
Speaker 1: to go and outer Rachel Oswald because she's still a

456
00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:28,800
Speaker 1: fabulous journalist out there in the world. Um. But she

457
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:30,760
Speaker 1: had this thing where she would be on deadline. She

458
00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:32,879
Speaker 1: would be finishing the front page story that I needed

459
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:35,800
Speaker 1: to put in the paper that I was editing, and uh,

460
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:38,960
Speaker 1: and she everyone has their own way of getting work done.

461
00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:41,720
Speaker 1: Her way was to put her headphones in and listen

462
00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:44,919
Speaker 1: to show tunes and and seeing out loud, seeing the

463
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:48,000
Speaker 1: show tunes out loud that she was finishing the article.

464
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:50,600
Speaker 1: And so you know, it's like, you know, it's it's

465
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:53,359
Speaker 1: it's night already, want to go home, and it's not

466
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:55,399
Speaker 1: the time to listen to your co workers sing show tunes.

467
00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:57,200
Speaker 1: But you know this is how you're going to get there.

468
00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:00,320
Speaker 1: You have to let Rachel singer show tunes and finish

469
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:03,200
Speaker 1: the front page story. Um I wanted to point out

470
00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:06,280
Speaker 1: that if if you feel like your office space is shrinking,

471
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:09,800
Speaker 1: if you're in a cubicle, or if you're an open

472
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:13,600
Speaker 1: plan or even if you're in office with capital, it

473
00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:16,680
Speaker 1: turns out that the average square foot or square feet

474
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:21,280
Speaker 1: per worker fell from two hundred to one hundred and

475
00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:25,399
Speaker 1: seventy six in This is in stark contrast to about

476
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:29,000
Speaker 1: five hundred square feet that were allotted for each office

477
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:31,560
Speaker 1: worker in the seventies, so you can see it's just

478
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:36,359
Speaker 1: like slowly being whittled down. And there's this idea that

479
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:40,880
Speaker 1: as a result of this lack of space and this

480
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:45,000
Speaker 1: bullpen sort of environment, that there is an increased amount

481
00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:48,399
Speaker 1: of anxiety, aggression and poor health. And this is from

482
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 1: researcher Dr venesh Omen from the Queensland University of Technologies

483
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:56,560
Speaker 1: Institute of Health and Biomedical Innovation. He said that nine

484
00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:59,320
Speaker 1: of the research, the outcome of working in an open

485
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:03,200
Speaker 1: plan office was seen as negative. With these types of

486
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:06,840
Speaker 1: offices causing stress and conflict and high blood pressure and

487
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 1: high staff turnover. So you can begin to see this,

488
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:15,040
Speaker 1: like if you talk about the anxiety or aggression, you

489
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:18,400
Speaker 1: can see this in an open office plan, because if

490
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:21,080
Speaker 1: you're in the middle of that, you are very aware

491
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:26,040
Speaker 1: of your coworkers conversations of perhaps the glade lavender air

492
00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:29,679
Speaker 1: freshener that they put up um or even like some

493
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:32,480
Speaker 1: of the little habits, maybe the clipping of their nails

494
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:36,200
Speaker 1: or toe nails at their desk. I really I could

495
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:39,280
Speaker 1: hear that all day and look at that all day. Um,

496
00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:42,600
Speaker 1: So that begins to really sort of heighten what people

497
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:46,720
Speaker 1: are feeling our distractions and annoying and you get that

498
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:49,880
Speaker 1: that higher blood pressure and you get more stressed out.

499
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:52,440
Speaker 1: So it sort of makes sense that in these environments

500
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,560
Speaker 1: you're asking people to do very specific work, sometimes work

501
00:26:55,640 --> 00:27:00,159
Speaker 1: that requires a lot of attention, and yet here all

502
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:02,560
Speaker 1: these different things going on all around you. Yeah, you

503
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:05,000
Speaker 1: end up putting headphones in to cut off the noise

504
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:07,200
Speaker 1: and try and concentrate more. But then with that comes

505
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:09,719
Speaker 1: to the added uh fright of someone trying to get

506
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:11,640
Speaker 1: your attention every now and then, and that just ups

507
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:14,879
Speaker 1: the anxiety again. The startle response. Yeah, I mean, and

508
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:17,280
Speaker 1: it comes out a lot of people enjoy. I mean,

509
00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:21,199
Speaker 1: I enjoy the privacy and space in which to do

510
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:24,439
Speaker 1: my creative thing. And uh and really that to me,

511
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 1: that's more valuable at this stage of my career than

512
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:30,359
Speaker 1: team work, because really, who's my team, Like, you're on

513
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:33,480
Speaker 1: my team. Noel's on my team once a week for

514
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:36,439
Speaker 1: a few hours, and then Tyler's on my team like

515
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:38,720
Speaker 1: a few hours a week. Tyler's our video producer, and

516
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:41,880
Speaker 1: nol is our podcast producer. And of course we're all

517
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:45,719
Speaker 1: wearing matching T shirts right now. Um, and we are

518
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:47,320
Speaker 1: a team. But you're right, I mean, what we all

519
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:51,320
Speaker 1: do is is largely very independent. And Susan Caine and

520
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 1: the other article, The Rise of the New Group thinks

521
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 1: so that this is really important for people who are

522
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:58,879
Speaker 1: creative but they're also introverts. They need to have that space.

523
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:01,040
Speaker 1: And we've talked about this before. Um, they need to

524
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 1: feel like they have privacy and freedom from interruption, And

525
00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:07,000
Speaker 1: this is where it's really important that that that's another

526
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:08,879
Speaker 1: thing that bugs me about the potential of a of

527
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:11,240
Speaker 1: a manager with an office deciding things. Also the idea

528
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:14,840
Speaker 1: of an extrovert who's a manager with an office deciding

529
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 1: how everyone else's space is gonna work, Like, Hey, guys,

530
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:20,879
Speaker 1: let's just do this. That's a big old work party, NonStop,

531
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:23,280
Speaker 1: realizing that most of us do not want to attend,

532
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:25,000
Speaker 1: or some of us do not want to attend the

533
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:27,679
Speaker 1: work party, and the idea of the work party alone

534
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:29,720
Speaker 1: is enough to give us the shivers. Well, I think

535
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 1: that there should be opportunity for informal collaborations, right that.

536
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:36,119
Speaker 1: That's I think why they say, hey, come in, make

537
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 1: sure you're in the office X amount of time, or

538
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 1: we're gonna have an actual meeting about this. But um,

539
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:42,920
Speaker 1: it turns out that if you have those sort of

540
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:46,320
Speaker 1: informal like hey, how's it going, you know, uh, and

541
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:50,080
Speaker 1: you share some ideas that you then take that inspiration

542
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:52,040
Speaker 1: from that conversation and you go away and you do

543
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:54,760
Speaker 1: the actual work. Right, So if you just sat around

544
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:58,400
Speaker 1: all day collaborating, nothing would get done. Yeah, it kind

545
00:28:58,400 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 1: of comes back to what we're talking about the caffeine

546
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,480
Speaker 1: an episode, the idea that when you do you take

547
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:05,640
Speaker 1: your coffee, you caffeinate, Uh, then you're able to focus

548
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 1: on a top on a given topic. But then you're

549
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:11,440
Speaker 1: not doing the free brain association activity that is the

550
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 1: hallmark of creative endeavor. So you need a balance between

551
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:17,560
Speaker 1: the two. So we need to share spaces with our coworkers.

552
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:20,320
Speaker 1: We need to be able to collaborate. Uh. We need

553
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:24,040
Speaker 1: to shoot basketball, uh hoops with Jonathan strict but John,

554
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 1: I don't know why Jonathan shooting basketball in this to

555
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:29,040
Speaker 1: my knowledge, he doesn't shoot basketball. But at any rate,

556
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:32,720
Speaker 1: you need to uh shoot some hoops with Jonathan every

557
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:34,120
Speaker 1: now and then. But then you also need to be

558
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:36,440
Speaker 1: able to to walk away from Jonathan and find a

559
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 1: place of quiet. It's true, and the quiet is the

560
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:41,760
Speaker 1: big deal, right, I mean, this is the chief complaint

561
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:44,400
Speaker 1: that most people have in any kind of office setting

562
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:46,440
Speaker 1: is that it's just not quiet enough. There's too much

563
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:49,719
Speaker 1: going on. I can hear someone on the phone talking

564
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 1: and I can't hear the other person on the other

565
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 1: line or you know who they're talking to you, and

566
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 1: that's maddening. We've discussed that in episodes. Hearing half of

567
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:00,640
Speaker 1: phone call is one of the most disturbing things possible,

568
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 1: because your brain wants to loop everything up, even if

569
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:05,960
Speaker 1: that's not your primary activity, far from it. From the day,

570
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:07,800
Speaker 1: your brain wants to make sense of it. Yeah, it's

571
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:09,920
Speaker 1: distracted because it's trying to make sense of that conversation

572
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:13,680
Speaker 1: and and um fill in those loops. But I did

573
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:16,239
Speaker 1: want to point out that there was a survey of

574
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:19,360
Speaker 1: sixty five thousand people over a decade. This was in

575
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:24,480
Speaker 1: North America, Europe, Africa, and Australia, Australia, Australia, and they

576
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 1: did they said, this is the thing people. You know,

577
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:29,760
Speaker 1: half of these people say that they need privacy, and

578
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:32,360
Speaker 1: they need speech privacy. So they need to be able

579
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 1: to make a phone call or have a conversation without

580
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:37,560
Speaker 1: everybody hearing it, and they also need not to hear

581
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:40,200
Speaker 1: everybody else. So I thought it was interesting that a

582
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 1: software company called Autodesk, which was setting up a new office,

583
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:48,880
Speaker 1: they wanted to test out something called a pink noise system. Okay. Now,

584
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:53,560
Speaker 1: this is described as a soft whoosh that's admitted over

585
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:57,320
Speaker 1: loud speakers and it sounds like a ventilation system, but

586
00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:02,880
Speaker 1: it is specially formulated to match the frequencies and human voices. Okay,

587
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:06,000
Speaker 1: So unbeknown it's sort of an organic white noise. Thus

588
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:08,880
Speaker 1: the pink noise. It's like a fleshy white noise. I

589
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:11,840
Speaker 1: have to say the pink noise sounds kind of nice, right, yeah,

590
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:14,760
Speaker 1: a little dirty, but nice, like you know, like a

591
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:17,560
Speaker 1: ventilation lullaby. Really yeah, it makes me think of the

592
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:19,960
Speaker 1: ventilation system is alive and fleshy though, Like we're in

593
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:22,600
Speaker 1: a Cronenberg office and do you think of pink good

594
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:25,960
Speaker 1: dripping down from it? I have to say, But unbeknownst

595
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 1: to the employees in that office, they had no idea

596
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 1: this was running, and it was run for three months.

597
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:34,160
Speaker 1: They shut it off and boom, they immediately got complaints

598
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:37,480
Speaker 1: and everyone lost their minds. Well, they couldn't pinpoint it.

599
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:39,479
Speaker 1: They didn't know. They just kept saying like I can

600
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 1: hear so and so and there's you know, like it

601
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:46,800
Speaker 1: was like that day that the power was knocked out

602
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:48,719
Speaker 1: and it turned out the lights were on, but they

603
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 1: had to shut off all of the really high end

604
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:54,080
Speaker 1: stuff like the ventilation system, and it suddenly felt wrong. Yeah,

605
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:56,000
Speaker 1: we were like, what's going on in here? Well, the

606
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:58,400
Speaker 1: same thing happens I think around like six o'clock in

607
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:01,200
Speaker 1: the building and UM used to when I would stay

608
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:03,480
Speaker 1: to six, like that's when I knew it was time

609
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:07,320
Speaker 1: to go, Like, feels wrong in here, something weird? You

610
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:11,680
Speaker 1: have those cues, right. Uh. So it was interesting because

611
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 1: apparently that that system was helping to muffle conversations, so

612
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:19,719
Speaker 1: all of a sudden people could hear conversations from sixty

613
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 1: feet away as opposed to me. You know, it sort

614
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:26,600
Speaker 1: of deadening that sound for them. Well, I think we

615
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 1: ought to introduce we can call it green noise, and

616
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:32,360
Speaker 1: it'll be um, just a constant like wishiness, but with

617
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:37,120
Speaker 1: kind of ghostly voices too, so that you're you're constantly

618
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:42,560
Speaker 1: a little bit on edge, Robert like that. Yeah, so like, yeah,

619
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:45,400
Speaker 1: it's kind of like an ectoplasm based pink noise, I think.

620
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:49,720
Speaker 1: So it's sort of like the mathieson um novel. It's

621
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 1: like come out no um oh I am legend, yes,

622
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:55,960
Speaker 1: all right, Yeah, that's what we all need is is

623
00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:59,680
Speaker 1: this promise of zombies behind the our office door. So

624
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:02,719
Speaker 1: it's hard to think about this open office concept in

625
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:07,000
Speaker 1: lack of privacy is running parallel with this other issue

626
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 1: that we have in our lives of not having any

627
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:13,200
Speaker 1: privacy anywhere because of the Internet or the amount of

628
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:15,840
Speaker 1: information that we're giving out um. And it's it's sort

629
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:18,040
Speaker 1: of interesting, do you know, to to look at it

630
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 1: that way and wonder if this is just us really

631
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:27,640
Speaker 1: fulfilling and adaption to what our current circumstances are. Is

632
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:30,120
Speaker 1: this really a big deal? Mm? Yeah, I don't know.

633
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 1: Like it does remind me one of the criticisms of

634
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:35,440
Speaker 1: the open office spaces that people going outside to take

635
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:37,600
Speaker 1: personal phone calls instead of having them at their desks,

636
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:40,480
Speaker 1: which doesn't sound like really that bad of a thing,

637
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 1: but the idea is that supposedly you're losing some time

638
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 1: and doing that. Um, but it's is it. It's not

639
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 1: like that it would be any less private to have

640
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:52,360
Speaker 1: that conversation in the office space. You're just seeing people.

641
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:54,760
Speaker 1: Like so much of it is just our perceived privacy.

642
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:58,720
Speaker 1: We need to have this agreed upon fiction of how

643
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 1: private our workspace is. Like, for instance, working in a

644
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 1: crowded coffee shop to me is great. I can I

645
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:07,960
Speaker 1: can really put in my headphones and and just barrel

646
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:11,000
Speaker 1: through a project. But I'm certainly not private. If anything,

647
00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:13,480
Speaker 1: I'm visible by more people, but I don't really I

648
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:15,719
Speaker 1: don't tune not to know any of them, so it's

649
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:17,640
Speaker 1: almost like they're not there. So but it's all about

650
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:21,359
Speaker 1: just me creating this uh, this environment, uh, this this

651
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:24,759
Speaker 1: world view in which I have privacy. Well, that's right,

652
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:28,319
Speaker 1: because all those people around you are not saddled with uh,

653
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:30,440
Speaker 1: you know, biography that you know. So if you're in

654
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:32,280
Speaker 1: a coffee shop and someone next to you is yapping

655
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:36,040
Speaker 1: about something, then you're probably not You can probably just say, Okay,

656
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:38,520
Speaker 1: that person is yapping. I can crowd them out of

657
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:42,000
Speaker 1: my mind. But if you put a name to them

658
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:45,960
Speaker 1: and some instances are collaborations that you've had with them,

659
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:48,120
Speaker 1: perhaps then you start to feel like, oh, could you

660
00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:53,080
Speaker 1: please quit talking. So it's interesting to see that we

661
00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:58,120
Speaker 1: do have to create this illusion for ourselves, and I

662
00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:00,680
Speaker 1: think that maybe that's that's ultimately what the answer is.

663
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:03,319
Speaker 1: You have to have an environment that allows people to

664
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:07,800
Speaker 1: have privacy, that allows people to work together, and throughout

665
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:10,720
Speaker 1: all of it create an illusion that they can accept

666
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:12,919
Speaker 1: that they have the privacy to work right. And part

667
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:14,719
Speaker 1: of that allusion too, is making these people feel like

668
00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:17,680
Speaker 1: they have choices, like, for instance, we're gonna decorate our

669
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:21,000
Speaker 1: our cubicles and feel like it is ours, it's my

670
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:24,000
Speaker 1: corner of the street, right, yes, which makes you feel

671
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:26,440
Speaker 1: like you have a little bit more control over your environment. Yeah,

672
00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:28,480
Speaker 1: the freedom to put up a poster of a barbarian

673
00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:31,480
Speaker 1: lady cutting off a monster's head like that is important.

674
00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:35,400
Speaker 1: I fight for that absolutely, not only in this workplace,

675
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:39,279
Speaker 1: but the next in anyone else's workplace. I will write

676
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:41,719
Speaker 1: an email on your behalf to your boss about your

677
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:45,120
Speaker 1: right to put up that barbarian poster. There you go

678
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:47,960
Speaker 1: take them up on it, guys. All right, Well, on

679
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:49,360
Speaker 1: that note, let's call over the robot and do a

680
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:51,839
Speaker 1: little listener mail that all of this comes to us

681
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:55,720
Speaker 1: from Facebook. And uh, this first one comes from Brad,

682
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:59,200
Speaker 1: dear Robert and Julie. I just listened to a writer's

683
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:02,520
Speaker 1: letter about naming holidays for the seven Deadly sins. He

684
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:04,640
Speaker 1: could not come up with a holiday that matched envy.

685
00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:06,279
Speaker 1: So I thought about it, and I came up with

686
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:09,719
Speaker 1: your birthday. It is the only holiday typically celebrated by

687
00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:12,920
Speaker 1: one person at a time. On another note, I'm a

688
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:15,200
Speaker 1: late time subscriber to your podcast and have been trying

689
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:17,680
Speaker 1: to catch up furiously. I'm a truck driver and listen

690
00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 1: to about tin podcasts today, uh and possibly a day um,

691
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:23,200
Speaker 1: and I'll get to that in a second. Um. I

692
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:25,400
Speaker 1: should be caught up in no time. Sorry for the

693
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:28,439
Speaker 1: pronunciation and writing, I am using voice text to write

694
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:31,160
Speaker 1: this message keep up the great work. I like that,

695
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:33,960
Speaker 1: and I like how he's you know, trucking along and

696
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:37,560
Speaker 1: doing the safe thing here and using uh. I mean,

697
00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:39,839
Speaker 1: I guess I knew that was possible because of all

698
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:41,959
Speaker 1: the serious stuff, But I think this is the first

699
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:43,800
Speaker 1: time that we've had a listener right in and actually

700
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:46,040
Speaker 1: told us that they were using a voice to tech

701
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:48,640
Speaker 1: software to write to us. It's kind of crazy and

702
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:51,040
Speaker 1: futuristic in its own way. I would be interested to

703
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:55,120
Speaker 1: know since he has sort of a mobile office of one,

704
00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:59,680
Speaker 1: what sort of things in his office environment as a

705
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:03,080
Speaker 1: truck or you know, um work for him or don't

706
00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:05,239
Speaker 1: work for him, And does he ever get into big

707
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:09,000
Speaker 1: arguments with himself? Yeah, the mobile workplaces, that's a whole

708
00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:11,719
Speaker 1: another issue in and of itself because you get into

709
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:14,359
Speaker 1: you certainly get into issues of economics there because it's

710
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:16,919
Speaker 1: one there. And this is exploring in Molly Edmands article

711
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:19,840
Speaker 1: that we decided earlier about pubical death. Um. You know,

712
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:22,239
Speaker 1: there are a number of concerns about the posture and

713
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:24,799
Speaker 1: pete keyboard position and eyes train and all of this

714
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:28,640
Speaker 1: are related to a physical, non moving office. But then

715
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:30,719
Speaker 1: in a vehicle like if you have a keyboard to

716
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:32,960
Speaker 1: the side, um uh, such as in a you know,

717
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:36,239
Speaker 1: any kind of like a survey vehicle or a police car, etcetera.

718
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:39,680
Speaker 1: They're a whole host of new orgonomic problems that present themselves,

719
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:42,799
Speaker 1: such as constantly twisting over to use a keyboard at

720
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:46,040
Speaker 1: a weird angle. Um. So anyway, that's a whole another issue.

721
00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:48,800
Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, I'd be interested to hear about the

722
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:50,960
Speaker 1: passing of time too in that context, as we just

723
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:53,880
Speaker 1: did an episode about time. So if you're in that

724
00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:56,799
Speaker 1: environment and you're on the road, how does that pass

725
00:37:56,880 --> 00:37:58,839
Speaker 1: for you? Um? What sort of things make it pass

726
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:02,279
Speaker 1: quicker or slower? This one comes to us from Amanda

727
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:06,720
Speaker 1: in uh Saskatchewan ox Bow, um, Saskatchewan to be a specific.

728
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:08,560
Speaker 1: She writes and says, I thought i'd write in about

729
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:10,720
Speaker 1: your recent coffee episode. I am one of the super

730
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:14,440
Speaker 1: sensitive types. The coffee is reserved for very important times

731
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:16,520
Speaker 1: only I if I have to stay up all late,

732
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:18,759
Speaker 1: all night and most of the next day sort of

733
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:22,120
Speaker 1: reasons only. Hopefully my abstaining is keeping me extra creative

734
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:26,240
Speaker 1: three exclamation points. Uh So yeah, it sounds it sounds

735
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:29,359
Speaker 1: like uh, I've certainly talked to people like that who

736
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:32,040
Speaker 1: are just ultra sensitive to it and only use it

737
00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:36,960
Speaker 1: if they really need to stay up like crazy. But yeah, uh,

738
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:40,480
Speaker 1: then we also heard from Bonnie listener. Bonnie writes in

739
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:42,480
Speaker 1: and says, I love coffee, So I really enjoyed the

740
00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:45,319
Speaker 1: recent episode on coffee. My dad started giving me the

741
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:48,240
Speaker 1: extra little bit of his coffee and uh, they wouldn't

742
00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 1: fit in his work thermis when I was just a

743
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:52,239
Speaker 1: little kid, and then by junior high he was making

744
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:54,200
Speaker 1: enough for me to have a real cup of coffee

745
00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:57,040
Speaker 1: before school. I never get the caffeine jitters, nor do

746
00:38:57,120 --> 00:38:59,160
Speaker 1: I ever feel a jolt from drinking a cup of Joe.

747
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:01,760
Speaker 1: Guess I have built up quite a tolerance over the years.

748
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:03,799
Speaker 1: What I really wanted to ask, though, is which of

749
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:06,120
Speaker 1: your co workers do you think would have a jar

750
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:09,279
Speaker 1: of urine in their office? In their office? And are

751
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:12,920
Speaker 1: you and are they fellow podcasters that we the public

752
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:15,440
Speaker 1: might be familiar with, And if we guessed which ones

753
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:17,920
Speaker 1: they were, would you tell us if we were right?

754
00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:22,880
Speaker 1: Do you want to feel that one? Um? Now, I

755
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:26,720
Speaker 1: will say, the coworker that has the most um liquid

756
00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:29,000
Speaker 1: receptacles on their desk at any given time has to

757
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:32,640
Speaker 1: be Holly of stuffy miss in history class. I just

758
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:37,359
Speaker 1: noticed there will be numerous cups and and cans. I

759
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:40,600
Speaker 1: believe they're empty, but they could conceivably be filled with urine.

760
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:42,520
Speaker 1: I'm not saying she's doing it, but I'm saying the

761
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:47,400
Speaker 1: ultimate like lady like person in this building, you know that, right?

762
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:50,440
Speaker 1: Like she's not. I mean, if you went, if I

763
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:53,880
Speaker 1: tell her what you just said, we actually I will,

764
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:56,680
Speaker 1: and we'll stand there and let's register the horror on

765
00:39:56,719 --> 00:39:59,480
Speaker 1: her face. So I would not. I would not say

766
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:02,160
Speaker 1: that that Holly would be the YearIn. No, No, no,

767
00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:06,360
Speaker 1: she wouldn't. But I have someone in mind. Are they

768
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:09,960
Speaker 1: a podcaster? H But I think I feel like I

769
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:13,759
Speaker 1: kind of need to ask. I feel like I kind

770
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:16,360
Speaker 1: of need to ask that person if this arrangement is

771
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:19,560
Speaker 1: okay before agreeing to it. I'm very intrigued by this.

772
00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:21,600
Speaker 1: I would love for you guys to guess who I'm thinking.

773
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:24,280
Speaker 1: But you know that person has to be a willing

774
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:27,920
Speaker 1: participant in this's okay? Alright, Bonnie, well you heard that.

775
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:31,960
Speaker 1: Tune in later for more details. All right. We also

776
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:33,680
Speaker 1: heard from Meg. Meg writes and it says I was

777
00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:36,719
Speaker 1: just listening to the coffee podcast popular with a lot

778
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:38,640
Speaker 1: of people and wanted to chime in since you wanted

779
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:42,279
Speaker 1: to hear from creative coffee drinkers. Um. As I've written before,

780
00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:45,279
Speaker 1: I'm a professional miniatures painter and have been for the

781
00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:48,600
Speaker 1: last five years. I'm an avid coffee drinker, especially before painting.

782
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:52,000
Speaker 1: I find it really increases me my creativity and productivity.

783
00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:55,120
Speaker 1: I also have experiences with hand jitters like Robert mentioned,

784
00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:58,279
Speaker 1: uh he gets before he paints minis. Painting is a

785
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:01,160
Speaker 1: very zen activity and helps keep calm and centered throughout

786
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:03,520
Speaker 1: my day. One question I have for you guys is

787
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:05,879
Speaker 1: how does caffeine affect people with a d h D.

788
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:07,839
Speaker 1: I am a d D and I know others who

789
00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:10,560
Speaker 1: are too, and we all swear by drinking caffeine eated

790
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:13,840
Speaker 1: beverages on days we forget our Riddlin or other stimulant

791
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:16,800
Speaker 1: medications at home. We have found it acts like Riddlin

792
00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:19,920
Speaker 1: in a pinch, and caffeine actually helps our brains to focus,

793
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:22,480
Speaker 1: says Robert. Anytime you come to Seattle, let me know

794
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:25,680
Speaker 1: and maybe we can get a paint jam in sometime.

795
00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:29,640
Speaker 1: All right, that's uh okay, I think I'm gonna have

796
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:33,040
Speaker 1: put that in the file for future h D episode

797
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:35,840
Speaker 1: because we've talked about this and we've had another request

798
00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:38,480
Speaker 1: for it in terms of creativity a d D and

799
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:40,920
Speaker 1: a d h D and how it may or may

800
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:44,080
Speaker 1: not affect creativity, so we'll have to explore that. And

801
00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:46,640
Speaker 1: just as far as miniatures go, I was really intrigued

802
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:48,920
Speaker 1: that that Meg, even though she has experienced apparently some

803
00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 1: of the hand jitters before, that she makes a regular

804
00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:54,279
Speaker 1: point of drinking coffee before she she paints. But maybe

805
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:56,279
Speaker 1: she has naturally steady your hands than I do, so

806
00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:58,160
Speaker 1: she doesn't suffer as much. Well, And then there is

807
00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:01,640
Speaker 1: that level of sensitivity to Indeed, everybody has kind of

808
00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:05,000
Speaker 1: a different cocktail in their body, reacting differently to it.

809
00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:08,440
Speaker 1: And finally we heard from Matthew. Matthew retz Inus is high.

810
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:10,879
Speaker 1: Robert and Juley love listening to your podcasts, and I

811
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:14,320
Speaker 1: often find myself imagining your recording set up for some reason.

812
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:17,680
Speaker 1: I picture a dark room, devoid of any distracting pictures, etcetera,

813
00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:20,719
Speaker 1: simply two stools, a table, and two mics. Any chance

814
00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:23,560
Speaker 1: you would post a picture of your actual recording set up, well,

815
00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:26,360
Speaker 1: I would say that we don't really have to, because

816
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:29,600
Speaker 1: if you watch the stuff you should know TV show.

817
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:33,200
Speaker 1: The setup they have in that show is fake but

818
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:37,239
Speaker 1: looks sort of like a clean TV version of what

819
00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:40,319
Speaker 1: we actually have. Well, you're talking about the red um

820
00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:46,320
Speaker 1: batting that serves as installation, right or two actually deaden

821
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:48,920
Speaker 1: the sound vibrations so that you don't hear the traffic

822
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:51,600
Speaker 1: too much there on Peachtree Street. But we also have

823
00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:55,600
Speaker 1: pictures of bats um and I would think we've mentioned

824
00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:59,759
Speaker 1: this before. Picasso in his underpants, Yes, Tesla over there,

825
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:02,600
Speaker 1: and a book on Santa Fe design and the wit

826
00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:06,120
Speaker 1: and wisdom of fishing. Yes, if this gives people a

827
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:08,160
Speaker 1: better idea of this sort of clutter that we have

828
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:10,560
Speaker 1: around us. We also have a terrarium with a homunculous

829
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:13,000
Speaker 1: in it. We have we have a necronomicon in a

830
00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:16,840
Speaker 1: vacuum sealed chamber, and UH a collection of various potions,

831
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:18,759
Speaker 1: some of which have been tested on our interns, some

832
00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:22,000
Speaker 1: of which have not. I will not confirm or deny.

833
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:24,480
Speaker 1: All Right, Well, if you have something you would like

834
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:27,720
Speaker 1: to share with us, um and particularly about today's episode,

835
00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:30,279
Speaker 1: about the workspace. What's your workspace like and how does

836
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:34,120
Speaker 1: it affect your creativity? About your your ability to to

837
00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:37,000
Speaker 1: jam and brainstorm, arm with your your coworkers. Do you

838
00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:40,680
Speaker 1: have a mobile uh working environment? If so, how do

839
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:42,799
Speaker 1: you how do you remain creative in that? How do

840
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:45,439
Speaker 1: you remain comfortable in that? UM? Let us know all

841
00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:47,800
Speaker 1: this stuff is game. You can find us in a

842
00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:50,000
Speaker 1: number of places. Stuff to Blew Your Mind dot com

843
00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:52,040
Speaker 1: is the mothership. That's where all our blog posts go,

844
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:55,399
Speaker 1: the videos, the audio, you name it, pictures of us.

845
00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:57,520
Speaker 1: If you don't know what we look like and you're

846
00:43:57,520 --> 00:43:59,600
Speaker 1: trying to figure that out, well that's where you need

847
00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:01,239
Speaker 1: to go to find it. You can also find us

848
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:04,160
Speaker 1: on social media. While we're on Facebook, we're stuff to

849
00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:07,160
Speaker 1: Blow your Mind there on tumbler as well. And also

850
00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:09,479
Speaker 1: you can find us unclear where handle is blows in Mind.

851
00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:12,640
Speaker 1: Oh and then YouTube mind stuff show. That's right, And

852
00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:15,600
Speaker 1: you can also send us an email at blow of

853
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