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Speaker 1: The coin Bureau Podcast is a production of I Heart

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Speaker 1: Radio from the developers point of view, from the whole

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Speaker 1: ethereum community's point of view. Really, they were damned if

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Speaker 1: they did, and they damned if they didn't. Welcome everyone

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Speaker 1: to the coin Bureau Podcast. My name is Guy and

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Speaker 1: his name is mad Mike Mooch. Welcome back. How are

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Speaker 1: you doing. You're right, I'm really good man. Good. Are

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Speaker 1: you looking forward to another episode about etherem? I do.

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Speaker 1: I'm enjoying these because I knew more about Bitcoin than

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Speaker 1: I do about the theorem, and it seems like there's

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Speaker 1: a lot more to know about etherorum because of the

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Speaker 1: um implications of you know, the things that it can

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Speaker 1: do exactly. Yeah, it's a lot more complex and interesting.

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Speaker 1: Bitcoin is the ol G, It's the golds and did Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but this is this is technical. This takes it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this takes it to another another level. I think, I

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Speaker 1: think bitcoin. Looking back on those Bitcoin episodes we did,

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Speaker 1: I find the history of bitcoin and the personalities involved

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Speaker 1: kind of slightly more interesting. Yeah. I get a bit

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Speaker 1: more Hollywood than I do for the history of ethereum.

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Speaker 1: That said, there are some amazing characters that crop up

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Speaker 1: in Ethereum's history as well. Um, but yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: Ethereum is kind of there's more to the actual project itself.

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Speaker 1: That's so as you say, there's so much going on,

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Speaker 1: there's so much that it can do and lets other

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Speaker 1: people do so limitless. It's limitless. Yeah. Okay, So last time,

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Speaker 1: we looked at what Ethereum made possible that wasn't possible before.

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Speaker 1: So we talked about tokens that stable coins and f

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Speaker 1: t s, non fungible tokens and defy decentralized finance. So

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Speaker 1: we looked at all of those, and we also looked

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Speaker 1: at what happened to Ethereum after it had officially launched

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Speaker 1: in July of And do you remember we also finished

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Speaker 1: on a cliffhanger. Yes, yeah, you were. You were desperate

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Speaker 1: to carry on, weren't you. Oh? I said, no, this

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Speaker 1: is a cliffhanger. This is how it works. You have

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Speaker 1: to wait. So yeah, now I'm more excited. Now you're

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Speaker 1: really into it. He's he's really perked up here, listeners. Okay, So, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we saw how a project called the Dow. Do you

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Speaker 1: remember that it attracted a whole load of investment from

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Speaker 1: the ethereum community, like people were absolutely pouring money into it,

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Speaker 1: and then it kind of all went sour. And you

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Speaker 1: remember the dow was this a dow is a decentralized

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Speaker 1: autonomous organization, and this DOW in particular, which was called

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Speaker 1: the Dow, it was a kind of it was a

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Speaker 1: kind of built around the kind of sharing economy. So

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Speaker 1: it was all about, yeah, the car share or yeah,

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Speaker 1: it revolved around this thing called a slock, which was

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Speaker 1: which was a lock that could be that was unlocked

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Speaker 1: via a smart contract. It's kind of pretty futuristic stuff.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, people were really really excited about this, and

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Speaker 1: then on the seventeenth of June it was hacked and

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Speaker 1: around three because there was a there was a I

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Speaker 1: know that was a different thing I'm thinking about. I

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Speaker 1: was talking about the where people would get more money,

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Speaker 1: and there was a problem in the coding. Yeah, you're right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was in the same Yeah, there was a floor

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Speaker 1: in the code. It was it was a recursive call feature.

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Speaker 1: So what happened was that if you made a with

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Speaker 1: two requests, it would honor it because it wouldn't it

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Speaker 1: didn't update the balances. Yes, So what this hacker figured

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Speaker 1: out was to just keep on making withdrawal after withdrawal,

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Speaker 1: before the smart contract had time to update his balance,

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Speaker 1: so he was able to siphon off around three point

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Speaker 1: six million. Yeah, I mean that is I can't even

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Speaker 1: can't even think what that's worth now, like billions, but

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Speaker 1: it was worth fifty four million dollars at the time,

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Speaker 1: so a really significant amount. And I think if I

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Speaker 1: remember rightly, it was it was about fourteen percent or

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Speaker 1: something of all the eight in circulations. Well there was

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Speaker 1: four of all the Ethan circulation was in the dow

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Speaker 1: and then he managed to siphon off, Yeah, a pretty

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Speaker 1: good chunk of that. So fifty four million dollars worth

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Speaker 1: at the time. And do you remember it had to

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Speaker 1: be because of the rules of the doubt. He couldn't

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Speaker 1: just siphon it out. He had to siphon it into

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Speaker 1: what was called yeah child down child and it does

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Speaker 1: sound yeah, And basically it would have to sit in

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Speaker 1: this child down for several weeks until it could then

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Speaker 1: be withdrawn. That was that was basically a rule of

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Speaker 1: the protocol, and that he wasn't able to sort of

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Speaker 1: circumvent that, even though he was able to exp cold

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Speaker 1: is law. Code is law. Yeah, and that's going to

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Speaker 1: be really important in a few minutes time. So the

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Speaker 1: date at which the hacker could withdraw his funds from

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Speaker 1: the child doubt was the twenty one July. And this

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Speaker 1: hack happened, if you remember, on the seventeenth of June,

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Speaker 1: so a little over a month. And the hack itself

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Speaker 1: only lasted for a few hours, but he was draining

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Speaker 1: sort of hundreds of eight every second or so, and

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Speaker 1: it lasted for a few hours. As I say, he

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Speaker 1: got three point six million and then it just sat there.

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Speaker 1: But if you like that kind of set the clock.

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Speaker 1: It's like, we've got until the one July to figure

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Speaker 1: out you know what, maybe maybe this is more Hollywood

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Speaker 1: that is like, that is Yeah, it's not quite the

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Speaker 1: time frame that is exciting. We've got twelve weeks. It's

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Speaker 1: conna be a long film. It's definitely a Netflix sort

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Speaker 1: of twelve party. It's not it's not a blockbust ninety

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Speaker 1: minute film. Yeah, well it was about how long was it?

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Speaker 1: It was so seventeenth of June, twenty one July, so

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Speaker 1: a little over four weeks, but I mean still that

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Speaker 1: four weeks. Yeah, it's still yeah, it's it's not exactly

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Speaker 1: Hollywood is it more of a Netflix slow burn, I

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Speaker 1: guess so. But basically news of this got out and

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Speaker 1: that caused the price of ether to crash around thirt

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Speaker 1: I mean that's fair enough. You know, it was basically

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Speaker 1: this huge project a third a whole third. Yeah, good

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Speaker 1: maths there. I wasn't able to figure that out. I

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Speaker 1: needed my calculator for that um And I mean that's understandable. Really,

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Speaker 1: this was this was basically, you know, as someone has

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Speaker 1: said from the time, like this was kind of all

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Speaker 1: that the ethereum community was talking about at the time,

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Speaker 1: the dow. It was the you know, the pick of

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Speaker 1: the month, and so it's hardly surprising that the price

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Speaker 1: took a dive. So in the meantime, of course, there

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Speaker 1: was this frenzied debate amongst the ethereum community as to

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Speaker 1: what the heck they should do, And obviously the community

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Speaker 1: was discussing it on on Reddit and you know, all

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Speaker 1: these other forums, and then of course the ethereum developers

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Speaker 1: were discussing it between themselves, you know, I think they were.

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Speaker 1: There were there's some stories of all these kind of

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Speaker 1: long skype calls and things like that, people kind of

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Speaker 1: dialing in just going right what on earth are we

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Speaker 1: going to do? And it must have been pretty pretty

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Speaker 1: stressful for all they even though they had four whole

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Speaker 1: weeks to do it um so prolonged. Even it's kind

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Speaker 1: of like, you know, a torture over four if if

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Speaker 1: it's kind of something that happens, you just okay, cool

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Speaker 1: because you don't know. It's probably about it because you

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Speaker 1: can try and fix it. And I assume they did. Well,

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Speaker 1: we'll get We'll see, won't we That's what I'm saying.

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Speaker 1: Come on, come on, give me this info. Get on

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Speaker 1: with it, guy, for God's sake. So it makes it

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Speaker 1: became apparent that they had three options. Okay, so option

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Speaker 1: number one do nothing. Good option there's been my option

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Speaker 1: for mostim the mad Mike much go to option I'll

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Speaker 1: figure it out. You would have been grazed on that court.

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Speaker 1: It's like, guys, guys, I really think, from the bottom

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Speaker 1: of my heart, we should just do nothing. It is

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Speaker 1: what it is. I've got to go back to involve

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Speaker 1: code is law to Okay, so option too. So option

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Speaker 1: one was do nothing and we'll see in a minute

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Speaker 1: why that was. You know, that wasn't just you can't

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Speaker 1: just discard that Idea number two was a soft fork

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Speaker 1: of the network. Now this we have talked about forks before,

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Speaker 1: haven't we, So fuck it, fork it, fuck it, fork it,

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Speaker 1: or forget it. Forget it, forget it. It will fork it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So the soft fork of the network would basically involve

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Speaker 1: the minors on the Ethereum network refusing to process any

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Speaker 1: transactions that tried to withdraw money from the dow or

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Speaker 1: any child doubt, so it would it would involve basically

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Speaker 1: getting the minds on board. Yeah, kind of a small

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Speaker 1: change to the network, that is, that is accepted by

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Speaker 1: enough people, and soft forks happen a lot. You know,

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Speaker 1: they're used bit more with Ethereum than with with Bitcoin

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Speaker 1: because it's easier to change that. Yeah, I guess, so, yeah,

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Speaker 1: there wasn't. There was because Ethereum is kind of a

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Speaker 1: bit more centralized, you know that the devs have kind

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Speaker 1: of more scope to to fiddle with the blockchain if

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Speaker 1: you like, fiddle with the underlying protocol. Then yeah, these

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Speaker 1: kind of changes are easier to implement than they are

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Speaker 1: on Bitcoin, where it's very very difficult to get kind

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Speaker 1: of agreement on it. So option number three, the most

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Speaker 1: extreme option, was a hard fork. Now, this would involve

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Speaker 1: basically changing the entire Ethereum protocol in order to create

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Speaker 1: a new chain, okay, and the new chain would be

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Speaker 1: like the old one, except that it would it would

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Speaker 1: basically roll back the Ethereum chain too before the hack happened.

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Speaker 1: So this would this would basically invalidate the hackers gains.

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Speaker 1: It would make it look like it would make it

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Speaker 1: as though they'd not being able to do it. So

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Speaker 1: as you can imagine, I mean that's there's not roll

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Speaker 1: back everything. Yeah, yeah, it would roll back. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: literally it's it's the unplugging from the internet, it turning

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Speaker 1: it off and on again. Yeah, yeah, it's it's a

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Speaker 1: big deal. It was. It was the as I said,

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Speaker 1: it was the most extreme option rage quit. Yeah it was. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they and and it was. It was really passionately opposed

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Speaker 1: by a lot of people within the Ethereum community. And basically,

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Speaker 1: this whole, this whole problem posed a tricky philosophical question.

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Speaker 1: So should the Ethereum devs. Should they take action? Law

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Speaker 1: is law? Law? Yeah? Basically yeah, exactly is should they

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Speaker 1: take action or just accept what had happened and try

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Speaker 1: to move on and go Look, you know, this was

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Speaker 1: this was a mistake, we made a mistake. We should

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Speaker 1: learn from our mistakes. But this has happened. Let's get

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Speaker 1: on with it. And a lot of I don't know

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Speaker 1: if your money has been taken, I don't know if

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Speaker 1: you'd have the same opinion. It's a look, yeah, well

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Speaker 1: you know, yeah, but there wasn't my mistake and where

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Speaker 1: is my ethereum? Well, this is it? This is it?

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Speaker 1: Like I think this was this was the angle that

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Speaker 1: a lot of people took. It's like, it's very easy

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Speaker 1: to say that when you haven't lost a load of

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Speaker 1: money um, And there are merits I think to both arguments.

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Speaker 1: On the one hand, you've got the code is law principle.

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Speaker 1: And this also this idea that if you manipulate ethereum,

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Speaker 1: it kind of goes against the core tenets of cryptocurrency

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Speaker 1: because cryptocurrency is supposed to be different. There's a lot

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Speaker 1: of people argue that that traditional finances where you see

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Speaker 1: this kind of manipulation going on, there's manipulation by centralized authorities.

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Speaker 1: Crypto is different from that. And people were people made

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Speaker 1: very strong arguments in favor of in favor of doing

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Speaker 1: nothing because I think they saw it as setting a

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Speaker 1: very dangerous precedent going down a path. It's like, okay, well,

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Speaker 1: if you manipulated this time because something has happened that

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Speaker 1: you don't like, what what stops you manipulating in the future?

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Speaker 1: What what are going to be the president? So what happened? Okay? Well,

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Speaker 1: an interesting side note to what you said earlier. Just

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Speaker 1: an interesting side note to what you said earlier. You

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Speaker 1: know about this business of some people, Okay, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's like you've lost money, I haven't or whatever. Someone

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Speaker 1: claiming to be the hacker then published an open letter

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Speaker 1: to the ethereum community arguing that basically they should do nothing.

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Speaker 1: Basically they said that they had rightfully claimed the funds

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Speaker 1: and that any action taken by Dev's would quote destroy

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Speaker 1: Ethereum's reputation and appeal. And yeah, I mean well they

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Speaker 1: would say that, wouldn't I thought that was quite an

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Speaker 1: amusing kind of side note. It's like, you know, obviously

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Speaker 1: one of the lab votes, and if I'm honest, I'm

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Speaker 1: quite a larger Theoryum holder. I kind of own it.

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Speaker 1: So if it's one vote per I do have I

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Speaker 1: do have a little bit of skin in the game um.

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Speaker 1: And then on the other hand, of course, doing nothing

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Speaker 1: could damage people's faith in the theorem. Anyway, if the

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Speaker 1: and the question was if the if the developers knew

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Speaker 1: there was a fix to the problem but they didn't

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Speaker 1: use it, how would that look? Yeah, yeah, that is

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Speaker 1: that's a very good point. It's going well, and it

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Speaker 1: also just goes like, cool, if there's if there is

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Speaker 1: ever a funk up, it's just it's it's just you know,

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Speaker 1: because fun ups happened. Yeah, instead of trying to fix it,

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Speaker 1: you just go, yeah, sorry, well, you know, buy a beware.

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Speaker 1: And then it's kind of like, okay, cool. What if

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Speaker 1: people start deliberately putting in these funk ups? Yea, then

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Speaker 1: it becomes just a scam market. Yeah you know, okay, cool,

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Speaker 1: I've got this new thing. Reallyer, there's no little back

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Speaker 1: door entrances. Oh again, but the code is law, code

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Speaker 1: is law here. Should have should have checked the small print,

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Speaker 1: should have checked that. Yeah, I've been more careful. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's I think you can say even worse precedent. Yeah. Well,

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Speaker 1: why it's so fascinating, isn't it. It's kind of like

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Speaker 1: it's kind of it's it's it's it's a moral debate Okay, cool,

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Speaker 1: like we'll look ups happened, but what is it for

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Speaker 1: the greater good? Or yeah you can. I think you

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Speaker 1: can argue either points very well, and lots of people did,

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Speaker 1: and when I was reading through this, there were there

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Speaker 1: were really strong arguments for both cases. And it comes

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Speaker 1: down to one of those who's who who exactly is

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Speaker 1: making the argument? You know, if someone particularly arctic, that

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Speaker 1: and passionate and forth right is is arguing for the

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Speaker 1: side that you perhaps disagree with, it, it makes it

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Speaker 1: even harder. It gets very difficult. So I guess you

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Speaker 1: can sum it up that from the from the developers

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Speaker 1: point of view, from the whole ethery in community's point

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Speaker 1: of view, really, they were damned if they did and

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Speaker 1: they damned if they didn't, and they did well. So

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Speaker 1: whilst all this was going on, there was a group

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Speaker 1: of developers who later became known as the robin Hood group,

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Speaker 1: and they started working to drain the rest of the

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Speaker 1: money from the DOW in order to eventually return it

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Speaker 1: to its rightful owners and prevent the hacker or you know,

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Speaker 1: other copycat attackers from stealing anymore. So it was sort

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Speaker 1: of like, you know, I guess if someone's ram raided

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Speaker 1: a bank and stolen a lot of money. These guys

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Speaker 1: were clearing out the vaults as someone else couldn't just yeah,

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Speaker 1: well they did it with the full They did it

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Speaker 1: with the full knowledge of the community. You know, these

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Speaker 1: were these were guys officially work on on ethereum. Now,

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Speaker 1: the mechanics of what happened over the next few days

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Speaker 1: get really really complex. So I'm going to say here

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Speaker 1: if you want to know more about it, I've mentioned

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Speaker 1: these two books before by Kimilla Russo and Laura Shin,

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Speaker 1: both about the story of a theorem. They both go

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Speaker 1: into a lot of detail about what happened here. It

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Speaker 1: gets very very complicated what the robin Hood group we're doing,

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Speaker 1: all the communication that went on between them. So if

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Speaker 1: you want to kind of drill down into that, then

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Speaker 1: feel free to read either of those books, and I

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Speaker 1: will leave links to them in the show notes. Long

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Speaker 1: story short, though, it became clear that a hard fork

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Speaker 1: was pretty much the only option. Oh so, so the

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Speaker 1: whole research, Yeah, they looked at doing a soft fork,

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Speaker 1: and it became clear that a soft fork option was

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Speaker 1: basically vulnerable to attack. I had a bit of trouble,

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Speaker 1: kind of kind of distilling this down to it to

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Speaker 1: a simple way of explaining it. But apparently it was

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Speaker 1: it was going to be vulnerable to denial of service attack.

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Speaker 1: So they basically they I think they ruled it out

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Speaker 1: fairly quickly, so that left to do nothing and do

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Speaker 1: hard fork. It was felt that doing nothing would irreparably

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Speaker 1: damage Ethereum's reputation and basically wasn't an option. And do

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Speaker 1: you remember last time I quoted this, talked about this

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Speaker 1: chap Emin Gun Sarah, who was a Cornell professor of

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Speaker 1: of blockchain, and he had voiced he had initially voiced

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Speaker 1: concerns about the TAO, but just shortly before it was

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Speaker 1: actually hacked, so he was he was quite involved in

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Speaker 1: this whole debate. And there's a lovely quote from him

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Speaker 1: which I think is what he said to Vitali. Vitalic Buteran,

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Speaker 1: the you know, the the creator of a theorem, you know,

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Speaker 1: the overall guy who, as you can imagine, was having

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Speaker 1: a pretty stressful time at this time. And I think

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Speaker 1: they were sort of talking at some event at Cornell

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Speaker 1: and Vitali was trying to decide what to do, and

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Speaker 1: you know, was was talking about this code's law code's

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Speaker 1: law argument and basically, um Emmin basically said, and this

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Speaker 1: is the quote. Code is not law. The law is

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Speaker 1: the law. I said that, that's what you said. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: well yeah, you and you and Emine are on the

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Speaker 1: same page. We're not going to tear down an entire

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Speaker 1: financial system and build a new one, only to be

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Speaker 1: enslaved by the algorithms we have come up with. And

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Speaker 1: I think that is a really good articulate um justification

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Speaker 1: for doing the hard fork. And when I read that,

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Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, they were doing the right thing.

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Speaker 1: That was Look, I think I was going to say

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Speaker 1: the soft fork, because that seems like the best option

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Speaker 1: for it, but because of these vulnerabilities and it's not possible. Fine,

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Speaker 1: then you've got a hard fork it. Yeah, because if

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Speaker 1: you if you just leave it as is, it just

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Speaker 1: opens up the precedent of just so many scammers. I'm

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Speaker 1: thinking of doing it right now. That would be like

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Speaker 1: all right, fine, cool, I'm going to go to register

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Speaker 1: Dow dot Coal and it would have been one up.

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Speaker 1: It would have opened up etherym to people like you. Yes,

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Speaker 1: I've been like, well if this is like oh, there's

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Speaker 1: no repercussions, let's do this. Let's do this, let's get

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Speaker 1: our hands in the cookie jar um. Yeah, basically doing

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Speaker 1: nothing I think would have opened the door to all

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Speaker 1: manner of let's call them ne'er do wells with malign intentions. So, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're absolutely right. Law is law and this and morality,

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Speaker 1: do you know what I mean? So people you've stolen. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: at the end of the day, you've you've you've found

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Speaker 1: a loophole, you you have not been true to the

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Speaker 1: the the ethos of it, and you've you've made yourself

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Speaker 1: very rich. Well, this was the hackers argument the hackers.

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Speaker 1: The hacker was saying, basically, I haven't stolen anything. I've

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Speaker 1: exploited code, exploited, I've exploited the code. You know, I've

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Speaker 1: I've used the code, and this is what's happened. You know,

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Speaker 1: if you want to prevent these sort of things, then

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Speaker 1: you should write better code. I haven't stolen anything, And

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Speaker 1: well what about your come up it? Because then guess

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Speaker 1: what something is going to happen to you? Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: whichever way you look at it, I think it's did

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Speaker 1: they find out who it was? Yeah? They did. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So Laura Shinn, who her it wasn't Laura a book

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Speaker 1: about it as well, book about it just the Hollywood

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Speaker 1: thing of it. Two weeks later, Oh, it is actually Laura.

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Speaker 1: I'll talk to Laura and put that idea to her.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, because I actually I met up with her

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Speaker 1: in London a few weeks ago to talk about this

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Speaker 1: because she's written obviously she's written this book and it's

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Speaker 1: wonderful by the way, I thoroughly recommended. But yeah, she

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Speaker 1: was talking about like unmasking this person absolutely fast Scooby

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Speaker 1: Doo stuff. Yeah, she she went the full Scooby Doo. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so on that note, let's let's take anok. We know

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Speaker 1: we're we're clearly doing this again. Well, we know it's

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Speaker 1: hard for you, mother, take a break, cool down, just

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Speaker 1: chill man, all right, just chill back in a minute,

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Speaker 1: we're back for part two. Now. Before I just tell me,

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Speaker 1: I wanted to quickly go over what hard and soft

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Speaker 1: forks are, okay, because I think I didn't. I didn't

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Speaker 1: give a very I didn't give a very clear definition earlier.

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Speaker 1: A soft fork basically only requires a majority of miners

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Speaker 1: to upgrade to new software. Yeah, it's it's fairly it's

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Speaker 1: a fairly vanilla option, and it's a backward compatible upgrade,

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Speaker 1: and that means that those nodes which have upgraded the

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Speaker 1: software can still communicate with the nodes running the older software. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So it's just it's not it's it's not too nuclear

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Speaker 1: an option. It's not a complete reboot. And basically, yeah,

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Speaker 1: soft forks are a kind of gentler option. They're often

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Speaker 1: used to implement fairly small or uncontroversial changes. A hard fork,

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Speaker 1: on the other hand, as we've discussed, is much more radical,

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Speaker 1: and as I said earlier, it basically splits the block

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Speaker 1: chain in two, and the miners on the network then

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Speaker 1: have a choice of which chain to follow. A referendum,

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Speaker 1: a referendum, Yeah, kind of, it's it's it's yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: basically like, okay, which which what what path are you

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Speaker 1: going down? Is not a referendum, because then a referendum

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Speaker 1: you will have to go with whatever ever is decided.

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Speaker 1: You basically go right, you're doing this now? Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: it's a crossroads that bitcoin cash, didn't they Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: That That was the that was the example I was

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Speaker 1: going to use. We talked about this obviously in one

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Speaker 1: of the Bitcoin episodes. It became when they were having

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Speaker 1: this debate about block size. Some that the community was

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Speaker 1: the community with the Bitcoin community was split. Some people

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Speaker 1: we want faster transactions and you know, it to be

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Speaker 1: more applicable, and they were like, no, well, look it's

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Speaker 1: it's going to be too decentralized. It's going to be well,

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Speaker 1: it's not not as secure. Yeah, there were lots of

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Speaker 1: There were lots of arguments. I think one of the

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Speaker 1: one of the one of the things was that using

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Speaker 1: bigger blocks would make the bitcoin blockchain a lot harder

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Speaker 1: to store, so fewer notes would be able to do it.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, it kind of yeah, it would become less decentralized,

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Speaker 1: I think. So, yeah, you had this, you had this

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Speaker 1: split in the chain, and one chain carried on as

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Speaker 1: the original Bitcoin and the other chain split off into

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Speaker 1: bitcoin cash, which had larger blocks, And the miners on

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Speaker 1: the Bitcoin network were faced with a choice at that time,

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Speaker 1: which one do we follow. Most of them stayed true

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Speaker 1: to the original Bitcoin, and a handful of them followed

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Speaker 1: bitcoin cash and continue to do so to this day.

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Speaker 1: And as I say, bitcoin cash is still a thing,

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Speaker 1: and it's still a know, a fair big project in

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Speaker 1: the grand scheme of things. So um, we saw, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we saw that, and that was August August two thousands

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Speaker 1: and seventeen, so slightly actually after the events that we're

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Speaker 1: talking about here, because this is back in two thousand

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Speaker 1: and fifteen. So um and as I said that that

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Speaker 1: that that hard fork that bitcoin went through, that was controversial,

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Speaker 1: that caused a huge rift in the bitcoin community, and

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Speaker 1: a similar thing took place when vitarler can Co decided

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Speaker 1: that Ethereum would need to hard fork in in response

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Speaker 1: to the dow hack. It was really really controversial for

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Speaker 1: the reasons we've discussed. So it was decided that the

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Speaker 1: hard fork of Ethereum would take place on the twentie

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Speaker 1: of July. And remember that the hacker would be able

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Speaker 1: to withdraw their funds on the one. So yeah, they

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Speaker 1: cut it pretty fine, now, Vitarlik. They kind of tried

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Speaker 1: to sell this idea to the community, so the tiler

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Speaker 1: had blogged about it to explain how it work, and

424
00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:03,600
Speaker 1: there was a vote taken of holders which was in

425
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:06,479
Speaker 1: favor of the hard fork. But the caveat to that

426
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:10,520
Speaker 1: was that very few people actually voted, so it didn't

427
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:17,520
Speaker 1: really reflects. Yeah, yeah, it was basically a handful of

428
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:20,520
Speaker 1: people a handful of much older people decide who were

429
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:23,200
Speaker 1: all going to have represent us because most of people

430
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:27,119
Speaker 1: can't be bothered to vote. Yeah, home Owners Association, the

431
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:31,600
Speaker 1: local Rotary club deciding sending a conservative MP back for

432
00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:35,840
Speaker 1: the two thousand year running. So remember, like the purpose

433
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:39,200
Speaker 1: was to change the rules of the network to basically

434
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:43,120
Speaker 1: invalidate the hackers gains to say, nope, this never happened.

435
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:47,000
Speaker 1: So the Ethereum network was basically rolled back to a

436
00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:50,479
Speaker 1: point before the hack took place, and the funds in

437
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 1: the dow at that point were then sent to a

438
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:58,560
Speaker 1: different smart contract which would enable their legitimate holders, the

439
00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:02,000
Speaker 1: people who had actually paid them in to withdraw them.

440
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:06,240
Speaker 1: So yeah, it kind of it kind of wound back time. Now,

441
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 1: this created a new chain, which now the difference here

442
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:15,879
Speaker 1: is that I think with bitcoin, bitcoin itself stayed on

443
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:19,160
Speaker 1: the old chain and bitcoin cash became the new chain.

444
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:22,800
Speaker 1: This one weren't cool, yeah, because they were implementing such

445
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:26,280
Speaker 1: a because they were implementing this change, the new chain

446
00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:31,200
Speaker 1: was the one that was kind of if you like ethereum.

447
00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:34,480
Speaker 1: So basically, hey everyone, we're gonna start it again. We're

448
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:36,440
Speaker 1: gonna go on this one. And this guy who starting

449
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:37,760
Speaker 1: all the stuff is gonna be an old one, but

450
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:39,960
Speaker 1: no one's gonna use that one. Yeah, and that's yeah,

451
00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:44,119
Speaker 1: so that's what happened. And so it was set to

452
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 1: happen at block number one million, nine hundred and twenty

453
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:51,000
Speaker 1: thousand on the network. And I think again, I think

454
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:54,000
Speaker 1: vitally sort of was gathered with a few other developers

455
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:56,359
Speaker 1: and they were able to kind of watch this happen

456
00:26:56,560 --> 00:27:01,359
Speaker 1: on screen. And yeah, so you had like a you know,

457
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:05,320
Speaker 1: block block, block block, and then yeah, suddenly the chain

458
00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:08,800
Speaker 1: split and this new chain appeared, and obviously the new

459
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:14,040
Speaker 1: chain was ethereum with just with these rules changed two points.

460
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:16,520
Speaker 1: Oh well no, no, that's no, no, that's that's that's

461
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:21,960
Speaker 1: way in the future. Just up there is an ethereum.

462
00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:27,480
Speaker 1: Forget what you just heard listening. Um, that's that. That

463
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:32,960
Speaker 1: will blow your mind. Um. So yeah, and this new chat, unfortunately,

464
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:35,880
Speaker 1: the majority of mine has decided to follow it. And

465
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:38,880
Speaker 1: you know, this new it was kind of like a vote. Yeah,

466
00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 1: so I suppose. Yeah, so Itali couldn't just go do

467
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:46,480
Speaker 1: as I command, no, he I mean, all he could

468
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:50,040
Speaker 1: do was implement the change and encourage people to follow it,

469
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:53,520
Speaker 1: but he couldn't make them because it's still Okay, that's

470
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 1: I'm fine with that then, okay, yeah, I mean it's

471
00:27:57,359 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 1: because it's kind of it's like I was like, this

472
00:27:59,880 --> 00:28:03,800
Speaker 1: is dodgy because if one person can just go, oh,

473
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:12,879
Speaker 1: I'm going to change everything, then it's not it's not decentralized. No,

474
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:15,959
Speaker 1: that's that's absolutely fair enough. Yeah, if one person can go, right,

475
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:18,920
Speaker 1: this is what we're doing, then it's no better than tradition.

476
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:23,200
Speaker 1: Even this way, it is kind of like the democracy. Yeah,

477
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 1: I mean the bitcoin community that the hardcore bitcoiners would

478
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:29,440
Speaker 1: would how many how many minors? Are we talking about?

479
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:33,960
Speaker 1: Lots like thousands, thousands, But that's not I mean that's

480
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:36,240
Speaker 1: a that's a significant amount of at the time of

481
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:38,959
Speaker 1: hundreds of thousands or I don't think it was hundreds.

482
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:40,640
Speaker 1: I'd have to double check that. Actually, I'm not sure

483
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:43,640
Speaker 1: that is that's interesting to go okay, cool, you know

484
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:48,640
Speaker 1: how many is it now? Oh? Again, I'm not sure,

485
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 1: but there are a lot like it because big it

486
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:59,960
Speaker 1: must be like election night, it's sort of going yeah,

487
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:02,480
Speaker 1: And I think that there was this moment this new

488
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:06,960
Speaker 1: chain appeared and it was like, Okay, this is what

489
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:11,960
Speaker 1: happens now, and fortunately the new chain started growing. It's

490
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:15,480
Speaker 1: the blocks started adding to it, and that meant that

491
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 1: the majority of miners had gone, yeah, this was the

492
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:20,720
Speaker 1: hard fought was the right thing to do. We need

493
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 1: to we need to implement this change. So we're going

494
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:26,960
Speaker 1: to follow the new chain, which is to miners make

495
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:30,120
Speaker 1: that decision. Oh no, idea, it will be something to

496
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:32,800
Speaker 1: do with it will be something to do with how

497
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:36,680
Speaker 1: they run the software. Um. Yeah, I I don't know

498
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:39,240
Speaker 1: enough about mining too, so overasting all these sort of

499
00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:44,640
Speaker 1: like can you ask easy questions? So yeah, the majority

500
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:47,640
Speaker 1: of miners weren't, like you actually made a decision and

501
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:50,680
Speaker 1: got stuff done. And yes, So this new chain, which

502
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 1: was Ethereum, you know, the Ethereum with the new with

503
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:59,000
Speaker 1: the protocol rules changed, it started growing and that meant

504
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:02,200
Speaker 1: that the majority of the of the mining community had

505
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:05,120
Speaker 1: had decided that this was the right course of action.

506
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:09,600
Speaker 1: And yeah, fortunately that this chain kept growing, more blocks

507
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:12,040
Speaker 1: are added to it, meaning it was adopted and basically

508
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 1: Ethereum had survived. Hurrah. Yeah, you can imagine. There were

509
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:21,160
Speaker 1: I think there was lots of champagne involved, and you know, geeks,

510
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:24,360
Speaker 1: geeks having a lovely time. However, there is a bit

511
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:26,960
Speaker 1: of a twist in the tail because apparently a few

512
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,479
Speaker 1: hours later, the old chain, which appeared to have just

513
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:34,560
Speaker 1: stopped it, started growing as well, which meant that some

514
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:38,440
Speaker 1: miners had gone no, code's law, code's law. We're going

515
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:41,560
Speaker 1: to carry on. So is there an Ethereum Cash, There

516
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:44,760
Speaker 1: is an Ethereum Classic. Yes, this was so, this is

517
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:47,600
Speaker 1: this guy mega rich on it? Well? He so, yeah,

518
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:53,000
Speaker 1: the minor minor sorry, the hacker was left with all

519
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 1: this Ethereum Classic because obviously if he'd if he'd gone

520
00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:57,720
Speaker 1: with the with the new with the new rules, it

521
00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 1: wouldn't have had Yeah, his his money basically didn't exist

522
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 1: on the new chain. Was there an ex change you

523
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:06,720
Speaker 1: could start selling it on? Yeah? And is that what

524
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:10,160
Speaker 1: he did? Well, we'll we'll get to that. You're just

525
00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 1: just just keeping you in suspense. I want to keep

526
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:15,160
Speaker 1: I want to keep the story sort of linear if

527
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 1: I can. Um so, yes, So some miners had basically

528
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 1: decided to mine on the old chain where the down

529
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:25,080
Speaker 1: hack had still happened, and everything was as it was

530
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 1: before the fork, which meant that the hackers still had

531
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:30,720
Speaker 1: all their money. It was just this new chain, which

532
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 1: would become known as Ethereum Classic and remember this was

533
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 1: this was It wasn't a new chain, it was the

534
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:40,120
Speaker 1: old chain carrying on Ethereum itself was the new chain.

535
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:44,880
Speaker 1: An Ethereum Classic is still going today, and it's I

536
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:49,120
Speaker 1: wouldn't say going, you know, it's nowhere close to Ethereum itself,

537
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:51,560
Speaker 1: but it is still a pretty big project and it's

538
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:54,560
Speaker 1: still kind of it still occasionally pumps up in price.

539
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:59,720
Speaker 1: So those who chose to follow Ethereum Classic and the

540
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:02,560
Speaker 1: tick for that, because that the coin on that network

541
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:07,920
Speaker 1: became known as etc Ethereum Classic rather than so if

542
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:09,520
Speaker 1: I refer to E T C, I mean, I suppose

543
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:11,800
Speaker 1: I should call it etcetera. I don't think any I

544
00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:14,840
Speaker 1: don't think anyone does. So they were basically the kind

545
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:18,360
Speaker 1: of code as Law brigade, and perhaps those who thought

546
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:23,120
Speaker 1: that the new and improved Ethereum wouldn't survive. Could he

547
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:26,320
Speaker 1: not have paid them off? I suppose you've got a

548
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:28,480
Speaker 1: contact and you find out who they are, and that's

549
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:34,080
Speaker 1: totally against all the rules of crypto stealing the money.

550
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 1: I mean, but if he had just gone right, listen, guys,

551
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:39,560
Speaker 1: I've got a lot of ether here. I'm happy to

552
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:42,720
Speaker 1: distribute some of this well, I mean he might have done. Yeah,

553
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:45,760
Speaker 1: he might have. Why people not criminally minded enough to

554
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:49,080
Speaker 1: get away with this stuff because you can't contact all

555
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:51,240
Speaker 1: of those you don't know who? Yeah, this is yeah,

556
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:53,600
Speaker 1: this is what decentralization is all about. You know, there's

557
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 1: no way even if you wanted to, it would be

558
00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:57,680
Speaker 1: so difficult to get in touch with all these people

559
00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:00,320
Speaker 1: get them to all agree like, yeah, okay, you did. Yeah.

560
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 1: And now apparently so the fact that makes me, that

561
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:06,680
Speaker 1: makes me smile in spite of myself, is apparently a

562
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:10,080
Speaker 1: lot of bitcoin has supported Ethereum Classic too, And this

563
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:12,520
Speaker 1: gives you a kind of window into the bitcoin how

564
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:15,920
Speaker 1: some of the crypto community think. Yeah, um, some of

565
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:18,040
Speaker 1: them did it, I think to basically highlight what they

566
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:22,440
Speaker 1: saw as Ethereum's failings to centralize. Its too controlled. And

567
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 1: I think a lot of them maybe did it just

568
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:27,240
Speaker 1: to be dicks, just to go, like, you know, to try.

569
00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:30,120
Speaker 1: And they hated, you know, some bitcoin max is then

570
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:33,280
Speaker 1: and now hate Etherorum. They hate what it stands for

571
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:37,200
Speaker 1: um and they wanted it to die. So a lot

572
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:39,800
Speaker 1: of bitcoin is apparently sort of threw their weight behind

573
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:44,560
Speaker 1: Ethereum Classic and actually, speaking of dicks, the hacker himself

574
00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:49,400
Speaker 1: was now was now basically holding Ethereum Classic instead of

575
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:54,760
Speaker 1: and this made his holdings significantly less valuable. But he

576
00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 1: did still get paid. I mean, you know, he didn't.

577
00:33:57,440 --> 00:33:59,560
Speaker 1: He didn't end up with nothing. He just ended up

578
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 1: with an ass set that was worth a lot less

579
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:07,240
Speaker 1: than the asset that he originally tried to steal. And

580
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:12,040
Speaker 1: Ethereum Classics price was well below that of eaths and

581
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:15,120
Speaker 1: it didn't go kind of above more than about two

582
00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:18,880
Speaker 1: dollars in the month, what did he have fifty three million?

583
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:22,839
Speaker 1: He had three point six million. He stole three point

584
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:26,800
Speaker 1: six million, which would have been three point six million

585
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:30,920
Speaker 1: ethere In Classic, which was two dollars, which was about

586
00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 1: two dollars. So I guess at most he'd had a

587
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:36,280
Speaker 1: little over a little over six million, six million bucks,

588
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:40,240
Speaker 1: which is pretty good. It's not bad for a day's work,

589
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:42,880
Speaker 1: you know, that's why you think about think of it.

590
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:45,000
Speaker 1: But it's a lot were a lot less than the

591
00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:46,839
Speaker 1: kind of fifty four million odd that he had at

592
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:49,240
Speaker 1: one point, and I mean, now it would be billions,

593
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:54,960
Speaker 1: but that's but there was no criminal proceedings. Well they

594
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 1: didn't know, they didn't know who it was, they didn't

595
00:34:57,120 --> 00:34:58,520
Speaker 1: I think that they found out who it was. Well,

596
00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:01,960
Speaker 1: they have found out who it was. He has been identified,

597
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:06,480
Speaker 1: but I don't think anything's actually happened yet, so anyway,

598
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 1: we'll get to them. So it's important to note that,

599
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:12,680
Speaker 1: as with the Bitcoin hard for the following year, ETH

600
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:17,560
Speaker 1: holders also received Ethereum Classic coins too. This is what

601
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 1: happens when you get a hard for this new currency

602
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:24,000
Speaker 1: is created, so he got Ethereum Classic as well. Well

603
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:26,359
Speaker 1: you've got an Ethereum Normal. No, no, he didn't know,

604
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:29,120
Speaker 1: so if you it was only kind of ETH holders

605
00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:31,920
Speaker 1: who also got Classic, because this was the new thing

606
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:35,440
Speaker 1: that was created, so he wouldn't he wouldn't have got

607
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:39,080
Speaker 1: any extra. So they so they even watered it down

608
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:41,719
Speaker 1: even more by giving everyone eath. They watered it. I mean,

609
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:43,239
Speaker 1: it kind of got water down by the fact that

610
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:46,759
Speaker 1: everyone received Class. Remember that most of the network is

611
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:51,000
Speaker 1: still following Ethereum, so all the Ethereum holders got some

612
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:54,960
Speaker 1: Ethereum Classic too, But obviously those who have chosen only

613
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:58,560
Speaker 1: to follow Ethereum Classic, they just got Classic. They didn't

614
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:02,920
Speaker 1: get any additional but a mark. But because there were

615
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:06,799
Speaker 1: now a lot of etc Coins in circulation, it means

616
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:09,120
Speaker 1: that a market for them kind of sprang up. And

617
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:12,880
Speaker 1: a few days after the fork, a chap called Barry Silbert,

618
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:16,160
Speaker 1: who is a very powerful chap in crypto. He's head

619
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:18,760
Speaker 1: of Digital Currency Group, which is one of the big

620
00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:23,680
Speaker 1: big crypto companies, has a lot of money. He posted

621
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:26,920
Speaker 1: a tweet saying that he had bought some Ethereum Classic.

622
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:30,440
Speaker 1: This guy's a fairly kind of ruthless spectr that and

623
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:32,200
Speaker 1: so that it pumped up and then he could sell

624
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:34,560
Speaker 1: well yeah, I mean, I guess, I guess being able

625
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:38,000
Speaker 1: to tweet that would he would have known that that

626
00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:40,600
Speaker 1: would have had probably a positive effect on the bit

627
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:44,400
Speaker 1: naughty of Barry really and um etc. Also listed on

628
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:47,279
Speaker 1: several crypto exchanges in the week following the fork. So

629
00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:50,960
Speaker 1: it became it became a thing like bitcoin cash did.

630
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:55,200
Speaker 1: And as I said, in the long run, East Classic

631
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:58,520
Speaker 1: hasn't gone away, but it's never really threatened Ethereum. I

632
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:01,160
Speaker 1: think at one point it was its price was going

633
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:05,120
Speaker 1: up faster than EATS, but it never it never was,

634
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:08,920
Speaker 1: never put it in danger. The greater effect of it, really,

635
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:11,200
Speaker 1: I think was the kind of trauma that it caused

636
00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:14,520
Speaker 1: in the whole community, and the arguments that the whole

637
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:18,840
Speaker 1: saga set in motion again sort of similar thing to

638
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,799
Speaker 1: what you to what you would see with Bitcoin a

639
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:23,800
Speaker 1: little later on, a couple of years later on this

640
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:28,719
Speaker 1: this huge community schism, this huge row over how it

641
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:32,040
Speaker 1: should be done, how this, how this network should should

642
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:37,400
Speaker 1: proceed um. But really the whole, the whole upshot of

643
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:41,160
Speaker 1: the story is that this was a huge setback for Ethereum,

644
00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:45,719
Speaker 1: and probably I think in Ethereum's whole history, probably the

645
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:49,239
Speaker 1: most dangerous moment that the moment that it came closest

646
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:53,720
Speaker 1: after it's after its launch to crashing and burning, I think,

647
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:57,320
Speaker 1: and I think, yeah, if they've done nothing, then it

648
00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:00,439
Speaker 1: could well have crashed and burned. I think I think

649
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:04,080
Speaker 1: more people would have gone, you know, this is this

650
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:06,279
Speaker 1: isn't worth it? If if if stuff like this can

651
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:10,000
Speaker 1: go down, then yeah it's not It's it's damaging as

652
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:12,759
Speaker 1: a whole of crypto. Yeah, yeah, I think so, I

653
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:16,120
Speaker 1: think you're right. So it survived the setback, and I

654
00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:20,000
Speaker 1: would say it arguably became stronger as a result. But

655
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:23,440
Speaker 1: there are more attacks for for Ethereum on the horizon,

656
00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:42,000
Speaker 1: So shall we look at those? After the break we're

657
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:46,440
Speaker 1: back for part three of Ethereum Part three. This is

658
00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:51,200
Speaker 1: a ninth bit of anyhow three point three Yeah, three

659
00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 1: Ethereum three point three cube. We after before the break,

660
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:57,759
Speaker 1: we'd we'd got to we got to the end of

661
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:00,440
Speaker 1: the whole kind of hard fork saga, the dal Hack saga.

662
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:04,319
Speaker 1: So Ethereum was in the clear, right, Well, there's there's

663
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:07,680
Speaker 1: Ethereum Classic, and then there's Ethereum. This guy's made off

664
00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:12,279
Speaker 1: with seven million dollars. Was it three point two or

665
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:15,239
Speaker 1: three point six three? I think it was, Well, it

666
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:18,120
Speaker 1: was three point six million, So there's a seven points

667
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:22,120
Speaker 1: two million dollars. Yeah, there's two dollars an classic. Yeah,

668
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:28,200
Speaker 1: I mean a decent a decent chan anyhow. This section

669
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:32,120
Speaker 1: is called the Shanghai Attacks, so there's still yeah, Ethereum

670
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:35,600
Speaker 1: has still got a lot to deal with. So just

671
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:38,000
Speaker 1: a couple of months after the hard Fork, just when

672
00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:42,360
Speaker 1: everyone was like, oh, it's fine, Ethereum came under attack again.

673
00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 1: And this was in the form of denial of service attacks.

674
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:49,160
Speaker 1: I think most people have heard this term, haven't. I

675
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:53,720
Speaker 1: alluded to it earlier. Dos dosh director, Well, that's direct

676
00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:56,600
Speaker 1: denial the service disapparently doss any denial of service, and

677
00:39:56,600 --> 00:40:00,440
Speaker 1: this is basically, when the network gets spammed slow it down.

678
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 1: Someone some person basically started spamming the network, spanning Ethereum

679
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:10,480
Speaker 1: to spamming to try and to try and slow it down,

680
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:12,839
Speaker 1: to try and break it. And this happened just as

681
00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:16,960
Speaker 1: the second Ethereum DevCon was about to get underway in Shanghai,

682
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:20,279
Speaker 1: and this was September. So this is why they're called

683
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:23,400
Speaker 1: the Shanghai attacks. And it was yet another test of

684
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:28,359
Speaker 1: Ethereum and basically the developers capacity to protect it. As

685
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:30,080
Speaker 1: far as I know, they've never figured out who this

686
00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:34,279
Speaker 1: person was or personal people or whoever um. But it

687
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:37,280
Speaker 1: seems as though in the wake of the Dow saga,

688
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:39,920
Speaker 1: after all that trauma, after all that upheaval, the devs

689
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:42,760
Speaker 1: had got a lot stronger. I think that it sounds

690
00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:46,719
Speaker 1: like their decision making capacity was a lot better. You know,

691
00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:48,759
Speaker 1: they were kind of battle hardened. Yeah, I mean that

692
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:50,920
Speaker 1: once you go through it, you're you're a bit more

693
00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:55,520
Speaker 1: You're a bit more experienced, a bit more hard nosed. Yeah,

694
00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:59,120
Speaker 1: you roll with the punches a bit more. So. Even

695
00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:02,600
Speaker 1: though the attacks kept coming for several weeks after the DevCon,

696
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:06,040
Speaker 1: the team was able to keep repelling them and keep

697
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:09,319
Speaker 1: creating patches to you know, to fix it as it

698
00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:12,600
Speaker 1: as it went along. So it sounds again reading about it,

699
00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:14,799
Speaker 1: it sounds like a pretty stressful time, Like, you know,

700
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:17,040
Speaker 1: they'd all suddenly have to drop what they were doing

701
00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:21,080
Speaker 1: on their laptops and be like, right, what's happening again? Right,

702
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:23,560
Speaker 1: we need to figure this out. And there's a story

703
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:26,000
Speaker 1: that so the dev con I've mentioned this before, this

704
00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:28,239
Speaker 1: is where this is basically a massive geek fest where

705
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:32,120
Speaker 1: all the ethereum community get together and talk all things

706
00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:35,080
Speaker 1: ethereum and have a lovely time. And I think it

707
00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:37,880
Speaker 1: was being held, as I say, in this place in Shanghai,

708
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:40,799
Speaker 1: and and there's a there's a story about them all

709
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:44,160
Speaker 1: just having to kind of just huddle around in the

710
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:47,000
Speaker 1: conference center, all on their laptops and just no one talking.

711
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:50,640
Speaker 1: They also realized that more hard forks would be needed

712
00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:53,800
Speaker 1: to update the network and prevent further attacks. But obviously

713
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:56,520
Speaker 1: by this point hard forks have, you know, take them

714
00:41:56,520 --> 00:41:58,919
Speaker 1: in their stride. And there were actually two more hard

715
00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:02,520
Speaker 1: forks that took place. There was Tangerine Whistle on the eight.

716
00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:07,120
Speaker 1: They're they're naming them now, okay, so like a hurricane, Yeah, yeah,

717
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:11,120
Speaker 1: like an operating system. Yeah, yeah, this is an operating

718
00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:14,799
Speaker 1: system update. Yeah kind of so Tangerine Whistle the hard

719
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:17,960
Speaker 1: Fork took place on the eighteenth of October, followed by

720
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:23,040
Speaker 1: Spurious Dragon on the sounds familiar. Do we talk about

721
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:26,920
Speaker 1: that before? I don't think so, but yeah, I I

722
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:30,400
Speaker 1: dug down into a bit. I want really wanted to

723
00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:33,600
Speaker 1: find out where on Earth they got these names from,

724
00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:35,560
Speaker 1: but I wasn't able to find out. So if anyone knows,

725
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:39,480
Speaker 1: please stop a look. Yeah, please write a review and

726
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:43,080
Speaker 1: leave it in the thing in the you know, leave

727
00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:45,960
Speaker 1: it below. The is a nice review. If you're enjoying,

728
00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:49,319
Speaker 1: write a nice review. If you don't enjoy this, just

729
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:54,640
Speaker 1: send this podcast to your enemies. That's the thing to do. Yeah. Good.

730
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:57,720
Speaker 1: So these hard forks were implemented with far less fast

731
00:42:57,719 --> 00:43:01,920
Speaker 1: than the previous hard fork hard forks whatever that that

732
00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:04,200
Speaker 1: had been used to fix the Dow issue. And I

733
00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:07,720
Speaker 1: think the Dow hard foot was just called the Dow fork. Boring,

734
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:11,239
Speaker 1: isn't it? And this perhaps was a sign that the

735
00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:14,320
Speaker 1: Ethereum team was becoming more confident and the project itself

736
00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:17,600
Speaker 1: just basically more able to resolve its problems. As I said,

737
00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:21,120
Speaker 1: it was battle hardened by this point. So I think

738
00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:23,680
Speaker 1: at this point we should kind of pick up on

739
00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:26,160
Speaker 1: pick up the thread of the kind of history of

740
00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:28,799
Speaker 1: Ethereum a bit more, because we've been talking about that

741
00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:31,360
Speaker 1: over the last few episodes, you know, kind of linear,

742
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:33,839
Speaker 1: we've we've diverted a bit to talk about the dal

743
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:36,440
Speaker 1: hack and the Shanghai attacks and all this sort of stuff.

744
00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:40,720
Speaker 1: But let's, um, well, let's talk about another big moment

745
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:43,200
Speaker 1: that happened around this time, or or or a big

746
00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:47,560
Speaker 1: series of events for Ethereum and for the whole of crypto,

747
00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:50,720
Speaker 1: really and this is something that a lot of people,

748
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:52,880
Speaker 1: you know, I remember really well. I remember when this

749
00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:55,160
Speaker 1: was all going down, and it was just I've been

750
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:57,359
Speaker 1: into crypto for a few years, but this was this

751
00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:00,239
Speaker 1: was something else, And this is the I c O boom.

752
00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:03,920
Speaker 1: So this is so the Dour hack. All these hacks

753
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:07,200
Speaker 1: were these two hard forks came towards the end of

754
00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:12,160
Speaker 1: seventeen was a whole new year, and to anyone who

755
00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:15,600
Speaker 1: remembers that time, I mean, this was when crypto started

756
00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:20,480
Speaker 1: going bananas. Whilst all these whilst all these attacks were happening, um,

757
00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:24,319
Speaker 1: people were others in crypto were starting to appreciate ethereans

758
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:27,359
Speaker 1: potential and realize what it could do. And developers were

759
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:30,760
Speaker 1: beginning to build these depths, these decentralized applications and create

760
00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:34,160
Speaker 1: new use cases for the network. And they also began

761
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:37,439
Speaker 1: to realize that Ethereum offered a new way to raise

762
00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:41,240
Speaker 1: capital to fund their projects. And this was the initial

763
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:45,879
Speaker 1: coin offering I c O. And do you remember I

764
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:47,759
Speaker 1: I drew the I made the distinction. I think it

765
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:50,680
Speaker 1: was last time in kind of traditional finance, when a

766
00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:54,160
Speaker 1: company wants to launch, you go public, they have I

767
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:56,800
Speaker 1: p A. Yeah, initial public offerings. So initial coin offerings

768
00:44:57,120 --> 00:44:59,680
Speaker 1: is a play on that. And there were signs in

769
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:02,320
Speaker 1: lay in fact that I c O s were becoming

770
00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:06,080
Speaker 1: more and more popular, and you had, for instance, there

771
00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:09,920
Speaker 1: was a decentralized prediction market called auger a U g

772
00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:13,520
Speaker 1: u R and that raised around five million dollars over

773
00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:17,360
Speaker 1: the space of a month. And then before another I

774
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:20,399
Speaker 1: c O was announced for a project called Golem. Now.

775
00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:25,160
Speaker 1: Golem was a decentralized cloud computing platform that allows users

776
00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:28,560
Speaker 1: to rent out their spare or unused computer space to

777
00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:30,480
Speaker 1: other people who might use it. It's a clever idea.

778
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:34,319
Speaker 1: There's quite a few Airbnb of hard rice, Yeah exactly. Yeah,

779
00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:39,120
Speaker 1: basically um air being being your yeah, your unused computer space.

780
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:41,360
Speaker 1: And as I said, yeah, this whole thing of renting

781
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:44,719
Speaker 1: out decentralized cloud computing is a big deal now. And

782
00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:47,239
Speaker 1: and Golem and Boat and Auger are still going, but

783
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:51,040
Speaker 1: not not quite the sort of headline projects that they

784
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:54,480
Speaker 1: were Anyhow, The Golem i c O took place on

785
00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:58,080
Speaker 1: the eleventh of November sixteen, aiming to raise eight point

786
00:45:58,160 --> 00:46:00,840
Speaker 1: six million dollars. You want to guess how long it

787
00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:08,600
Speaker 1: took them to do that, No, twelve minutes. Twenty minutes.

788
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:14,880
Speaker 1: You were supposed to go two weeks. And there was

789
00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:17,239
Speaker 1: such a so yeah, it raised this eight point six

790
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:22,080
Speaker 1: million dollars in twenty minutes. Just extraordinary. And there was

791
00:46:22,120 --> 00:46:24,319
Speaker 1: such a frenzy to get in on this sale that

792
00:46:24,920 --> 00:46:28,600
Speaker 1: my ether wallet, which was an interface that that someone

793
00:46:28,640 --> 00:46:31,840
Speaker 1: had built that allowed users to interact with the Ethereum blockchain,

794
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:35,520
Speaker 1: it crashed under the strain of all the requests submitted

795
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:39,080
Speaker 1: to it, and it got it got kind of pretty ugly,

796
00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:42,320
Speaker 1: Like the developer of my ether wallet, who had basically

797
00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:44,839
Speaker 1: done it, you know, out of the goodness their heart,

798
00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:46,680
Speaker 1: and they think they were doing it, you know, necessarily

799
00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:50,520
Speaker 1: to make a quick buck. Um. She was. Yeah, she

800
00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:53,200
Speaker 1: was sort of received all these kind of all this

801
00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:55,319
Speaker 1: hate mail and stuff like that from people who hadn't

802
00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:58,279
Speaker 1: been able to you know, buying in So yeah, so

803
00:46:58,320 --> 00:46:59,880
Speaker 1: that was at the that was at the tail end

804
00:46:59,880 --> 00:47:02,000
Speaker 1: of six So I c o s were, you know,

805
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:04,000
Speaker 1: we're becoming a thing. But as I said, it was

806
00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:06,800
Speaker 1: seen that I c o s would really go nuts.

807
00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:10,000
Speaker 1: And yeah, that the this is remembered as the year

808
00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:13,560
Speaker 1: when when crypto really took off and captured the public imagination,

809
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:18,120
Speaker 1: and of course prices went absolutely crazy. So just for context,

810
00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:23,160
Speaker 1: Bitcoin BTC started the year around one thousand dollars and

811
00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:27,800
Speaker 1: it peaked just short of twenty dollars in late December

812
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:33,279
Speaker 1: as insane. On the other hand, it started the year

813
00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:36,960
Speaker 1: around eight dollars and rose to over seven hundred dollars

814
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:40,920
Speaker 1: by the end of just yeah, I mean, yeah, as

815
00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:43,000
Speaker 1: I say, I remember it well, and it was it

816
00:47:43,120 --> 00:47:46,719
Speaker 1: was a great time. It was a roller coaster, but yeah,

817
00:47:46,719 --> 00:47:51,320
Speaker 1: absolutely crazy. So what this meant, these increasing prices meant

818
00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:54,480
Speaker 1: that a lot of early crypto investors, those guys you've

819
00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:59,560
Speaker 1: got in on the ground floor, we're getting seriously rich um.

820
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:03,200
Speaker 1: And and also there were many more people kind of

821
00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:05,920
Speaker 1: flooding into crypto every day, going I gotta get me

822
00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:07,400
Speaker 1: some of this. I've gotta get me a slice of

823
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:13,360
Speaker 1: this pie. So in January there were nine I c

824
00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:17,760
Speaker 1: o s and between them they raised sixty six million dollars,

825
00:48:19,640 --> 00:48:25,279
Speaker 1: which is crazy. However, in the whole of I c

826
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:31,280
Speaker 1: o s would raise just shy of eight billion dollars. Yeah,

827
00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:37,759
Speaker 1: it was an absolute feeding frenzy. And here's one particularly

828
00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:41,359
Speaker 1: crazy one was Brave. Now Brave is I love Brave.

829
00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:43,640
Speaker 1: It's a it's a great project. It's still going. And

830
00:48:43,719 --> 00:48:47,120
Speaker 1: this is a web browser with built in privacy and

831
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:51,000
Speaker 1: ad blocking and I I use it, I use it

832
00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:53,880
Speaker 1: on my I use it as my go to browser,

833
00:48:54,040 --> 00:48:56,719
Speaker 1: and it's brilliant. It's a it's a really great experience.

834
00:48:56,840 --> 00:49:01,320
Speaker 1: It's UM. Yeah, it uses kind of Google source code,

835
00:49:02,160 --> 00:49:05,160
Speaker 1: but it's yeah, a lot lot better. And it has

836
00:49:05,160 --> 00:49:08,680
Speaker 1: a native token called basic at Tension Token or BAT,

837
00:49:09,160 --> 00:49:13,080
Speaker 1: and that is UM that hasn't quite sort of hit

838
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:16,680
Speaker 1: previous heights, but it's still a top one project. And

839
00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:20,319
Speaker 1: basically BAT is used to incentivize users and reward them

840
00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:23,800
Speaker 1: for looking at selected ads. And as the name suggests,

841
00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:26,239
Speaker 1: basic attention token you get based you know, you get

842
00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:30,239
Speaker 1: rewarded for the attention that you give. And the whole

843
00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:32,440
Speaker 1: point of it is that, you know, you only see

844
00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:35,239
Speaker 1: ads that are sort of of interest to you. You

845
00:49:35,239 --> 00:49:37,200
Speaker 1: don't get kind of spammed at all sorts of stuff.

846
00:49:37,239 --> 00:49:40,959
Speaker 1: So you can you can actually earn for your Yeah,

847
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:44,160
Speaker 1: for your attention, Yeah, for browsing. And as I say,

848
00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:48,759
Speaker 1: it's a projects you too busy, too busy downloading, brain

849
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:52,560
Speaker 1: stacking that bad. Yeah. I I recommended um So the

850
00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:56,359
Speaker 1: brave I c O raised thirty five million dollars through

851
00:49:56,400 --> 00:50:00,000
Speaker 1: sales of bat In And do you want to guess

852
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:06,080
Speaker 1: how long this sale took? Seven seven minutes? It took

853
00:50:06,120 --> 00:50:13,279
Speaker 1: twenty four seconds. I'm happy play the game, Michael, play

854
00:50:13,320 --> 00:50:18,479
Speaker 1: the game, crazy and the stories of you know, it's

855
00:50:18,560 --> 00:50:23,440
Speaker 1: not it's it's not the sort of a real fairy

856
00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:26,080
Speaker 1: tale in a lot of ways, because I think it

857
00:50:26,200 --> 00:50:28,120
Speaker 1: only went only a handful of people were able to

858
00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:30,279
Speaker 1: get in. Only a few thousand people or even a

859
00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:32,759
Speaker 1: few hundred people actually got in, So it meant that

860
00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:35,719
Speaker 1: a lot of people and we're able to buy in

861
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:37,880
Speaker 1: with huge positions. I don't think there was any kind

862
00:50:37,880 --> 00:50:40,800
Speaker 1: of limit on what you could so. But there's this

863
00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:43,120
Speaker 1: story I think of one investor. He sort of he

864
00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:45,640
Speaker 1: was or would be investor. He was desperate to get

865
00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:47,560
Speaker 1: in so he you know, he went I think he

866
00:50:47,640 --> 00:50:49,319
Speaker 1: was on holiday or something, and he went down to

867
00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:51,759
Speaker 1: a he was going to go to a cafe where

868
00:50:51,800 --> 00:50:53,960
Speaker 1: they had internet, and he was all got there, only

869
00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:59,399
Speaker 1: opened the laptop and the sales over. Yeah. It really is. Yeah,

870
00:50:59,840 --> 00:51:03,399
Speaker 1: the people, you know, people are so keen to get

871
00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:06,439
Speaker 1: on board that. Yeah. And it's it's not really even.

872
00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:08,879
Speaker 1: It's not really even. The race goes to the quick.

873
00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:11,319
Speaker 1: It's the race goes to the lucky. I guess just

874
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:14,839
Speaker 1: so yeah, so brave I O twenty four seconds it took.

875
00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:17,640
Speaker 1: And then in June seventeen, there was a project called

876
00:51:17,680 --> 00:51:20,319
Speaker 1: bank or Network. It sold a hundred and fifty three

877
00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:23,080
Speaker 1: million dollars worth of bank or Network token in a

878
00:51:23,080 --> 00:51:26,040
Speaker 1: matter of hours. This one, but the demand clogged up

879
00:51:26,080 --> 00:51:29,520
Speaker 1: the whole Ethereum network. And this is this is an

880
00:51:29,560 --> 00:51:31,880
Speaker 1: important point which I'll get back to get back to

881
00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:34,799
Speaker 1: in a bit um. And then a few days later

882
00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:37,880
Speaker 1: there was Status which was appear to appear encrypted messaging

883
00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:40,120
Speaker 1: and payment service UM I guess you can think of

884
00:51:40,160 --> 00:51:44,160
Speaker 1: that like a bit like um uh we chat the

885
00:51:44,280 --> 00:51:47,680
Speaker 1: Chinese platform, but basically for ethereum, and that sold a

886
00:51:47,719 --> 00:51:51,719
Speaker 1: hundred million dollars worth of status network token or s

887
00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:55,239
Speaker 1: n T or whatever it's called in three hours. Is

888
00:51:55,280 --> 00:52:03,200
Speaker 1: that still going status we chat? Yeah, the state the

889
00:52:03,280 --> 00:52:06,520
Speaker 1: status thing, I believe. So shall I get on because like,

890
00:52:06,560 --> 00:52:08,239
Speaker 1: what about these people who vested a lot in and

891
00:52:08,280 --> 00:52:11,239
Speaker 1: it doesn't become anything? Well yeah, yeah, I mean I

892
00:52:11,320 --> 00:52:13,600
Speaker 1: think there will be a lot of people from this,

893
00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:16,000
Speaker 1: from this I c O you know, from the I

894
00:52:16,080 --> 00:52:18,560
Speaker 1: c O boom, who will have who will have brought

895
00:52:18,600 --> 00:52:22,600
Speaker 1: in and will be holding holding these tokens that are

896
00:52:22,640 --> 00:52:25,600
Speaker 1: not worth much. So yeah, s NT status it's still exists.

897
00:52:25,719 --> 00:52:30,360
Speaker 1: It's number two hundred forty six ranking in the ranking coins.

898
00:52:30,719 --> 00:52:33,200
Speaker 1: It's you can you can have an s n T

899
00:52:33,560 --> 00:52:37,960
Speaker 1: for seven cents, a little over seven cents. Let's have

900
00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:41,440
Speaker 1: a look at its data. It's all time high was

901
00:52:41,719 --> 00:52:46,319
Speaker 1: sixty eight cents in January, so it's down eighty nine

902
00:52:46,640 --> 00:52:52,799
Speaker 1: three since then. Brutal. Yeah, not great, um, but yes,

903
00:52:53,160 --> 00:52:55,640
Speaker 1: it still exists. And a lot of these projects like

904
00:52:55,680 --> 00:53:00,239
Speaker 1: I say, um Golem, augur Bat are still going. But yeah,

905
00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:03,719
Speaker 1: they they've kind of been overtaken by by other by

906
00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:07,640
Speaker 1: other projects now, um, which kind of which says a lot,

907
00:53:07,640 --> 00:53:11,000
Speaker 1: really doesn't it. It's um, you know, even though there

908
00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:14,360
Speaker 1: was the boom not everything, that doesn't necessarily mean that

909
00:53:14,400 --> 00:53:17,480
Speaker 1: all these projects were nailed on successes. Anyhow, I want

910
00:53:17,520 --> 00:53:20,040
Speaker 1: to quickly diverge because an interesting side note as we're

911
00:53:20,040 --> 00:53:23,360
Speaker 1: as we're sort of talking about kind of mid two seventeen,

912
00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:27,400
Speaker 1: there was an interesting event that took place June. Hoax

913
00:53:27,640 --> 00:53:31,600
Speaker 1: on four Chan started a rumor that Vitalik had died

914
00:53:31,640 --> 00:53:36,680
Speaker 1: in a car crash, and the east price dived around

915
00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:40,320
Speaker 1: and that that that does make a good point because

916
00:53:40,520 --> 00:53:44,440
Speaker 1: it points again to centralization. But the next gain, you know,

917
00:53:44,480 --> 00:53:49,000
Speaker 1: when Steve Jobs died. Yeah, the same thing happened with Apple. Yeah,

918
00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:52,800
Speaker 1: that the share price kind of nose dives because people

919
00:53:53,320 --> 00:53:57,040
Speaker 1: think it's just one person. It's not. That's a really

920
00:53:57,040 --> 00:54:00,320
Speaker 1: good point. That's a really good point because it makes

921
00:54:00,360 --> 00:54:03,759
Speaker 1: it says, how, you know, investment prices are driven whether

922
00:54:03,760 --> 00:54:06,799
Speaker 1: their crypto prices, whether their stock prices, whatever, prices are

923
00:54:06,840 --> 00:54:10,799
Speaker 1: driven by human emotion. Yeah, it's it's not some it's

924
00:54:10,800 --> 00:54:13,319
Speaker 1: not robots or anything behind the scenes with a little

925
00:54:13,360 --> 00:54:17,399
Speaker 1: bit of understanding force, like you know that. Okay, look,

926
00:54:17,719 --> 00:54:21,120
Speaker 1: Steve Jobs died and he was he was a great

927
00:54:21,200 --> 00:54:25,120
Speaker 1: CEO of that company. But but they're in a position

928
00:54:25,520 --> 00:54:28,040
Speaker 1: they were they were gonna be okay, yeah, and maybe

929
00:54:28,040 --> 00:54:31,240
Speaker 1: a fresh set of eyes was going to be what

930
00:54:31,239 --> 00:54:35,840
Speaker 1: was needed. And now we have AirPods and everything. Everything's fine.

931
00:54:36,360 --> 00:54:40,680
Speaker 1: It's it's a purely emotional reaction, isn't it. And that's

932
00:54:40,760 --> 00:54:43,479
Speaker 1: I think something to keep in mind some some some

933
00:54:43,600 --> 00:54:45,520
Speaker 1: weight to it as well. You know, like if there

934
00:54:45,600 --> 00:54:48,759
Speaker 1: is someone who like is a driving force behind the

935
00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:54,160
Speaker 1: company or or or or a crypto coin and they go,

936
00:54:54,320 --> 00:54:58,320
Speaker 1: then it is uncertainty. And I think that's what the

937
00:55:00,200 --> 00:55:04,120
Speaker 1: fear of the markets. Yeah, if markets hate one thing

938
00:55:04,480 --> 00:55:08,279
Speaker 1: more than anything else, and that's uncertainty. And yeah, this

939
00:55:08,360 --> 00:55:10,520
Speaker 1: is so this is yeah really and I think this

940
00:55:10,600 --> 00:55:13,080
Speaker 1: is why it's interesting to to raise this, to raise

941
00:55:13,160 --> 00:55:16,759
Speaker 1: this event and what happened. So, yeah, the hoax goes

942
00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:20,160
Speaker 1: that Vitalis died in a car crash, takes a dive

943
00:55:20,719 --> 00:55:22,480
Speaker 1: until it was revealed to be untrue. And the way

944
00:55:22,520 --> 00:55:24,680
Speaker 1: he did this was the way vital It proved he

945
00:55:24,760 --> 00:55:28,560
Speaker 1: was alive. Is great so he posted a picture of

946
00:55:28,640 --> 00:55:32,239
Speaker 1: himself holding up a piece of paper with an up

947
00:55:32,239 --> 00:55:35,239
Speaker 1: to date Ethereum block number from that day, and then

948
00:55:35,320 --> 00:55:38,640
Speaker 1: it's corresponding hash below. It was in a car. It

949
00:55:38,760 --> 00:55:44,239
Speaker 1: wasn't in a car, I don't think. But you know,

950
00:55:44,280 --> 00:55:47,000
Speaker 1: like when when when they want proof of life for

951
00:55:47,040 --> 00:55:49,560
Speaker 1: a kidnapping at him and they hold up a you know,

952
00:55:49,600 --> 00:55:51,560
Speaker 1: a recent copy of the day's paper. Well, this was

953
00:55:51,600 --> 00:55:54,840
Speaker 1: the crypto equivalent of that um. So, I mean, I

954
00:55:54,880 --> 00:55:56,839
Speaker 1: hesitate to call it a nice little story because it's

955
00:55:56,880 --> 00:55:59,040
Speaker 1: horrible that someone would start this sort of rumor, but

956
00:55:59,520 --> 00:56:02,040
Speaker 1: you know, mean, fortunately vital it was was okay, but

957
00:56:02,719 --> 00:56:05,839
Speaker 1: it's yeah, it's horrible for the friends and family. Yeah,

958
00:56:05,840 --> 00:56:07,600
Speaker 1: that must have been more than the actual person. Must

959
00:56:07,600 --> 00:56:09,879
Speaker 1: have been a horrible few hours for those those close

960
00:56:09,960 --> 00:56:12,120
Speaker 1: to him. But I think it it really does make

961
00:56:12,160 --> 00:56:15,960
Speaker 1: that point very very well of you know, of how

962
00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:19,719
Speaker 1: people get emotionally involved in these things, and how yeah

963
00:56:19,800 --> 00:56:23,080
Speaker 1: it would be. It would be terrible if if VITARLK died,

964
00:56:23,160 --> 00:56:26,880
Speaker 1: you know, but I think he will be the end

965
00:56:26,880 --> 00:56:29,439
Speaker 1: of the world, that it won't be the end of ethereum. Yeah, yeah,

966
00:56:29,440 --> 00:56:31,120
Speaker 1: and I think vital it would probably be the first

967
00:56:31,120 --> 00:56:32,920
Speaker 1: to admit that, and in fact, I think he has

968
00:56:33,000 --> 00:56:36,280
Speaker 1: sort of said that in the past. Anyhow, some Ethereum

969
00:56:36,400 --> 00:56:40,920
Speaker 1: competitive projects also held I c and this is These

970
00:56:40,960 --> 00:56:43,000
Speaker 1: are things that will dig into in another episode. But

971
00:56:43,560 --> 00:56:47,120
Speaker 1: a project called EOS ran a year long I c oh,

972
00:56:47,239 --> 00:56:53,920
Speaker 1: eventually raising four billion dollars. Insane and even more insane

973
00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:57,040
Speaker 1: when you consider that it hasn't really done very much

974
00:56:57,160 --> 00:57:01,040
Speaker 1: with that. Well where does that money go? Well, a

975
00:57:01,120 --> 00:57:03,880
Speaker 1: lot of a lot of people holding EOS would that's

976
00:57:03,920 --> 00:57:07,440
Speaker 1: exactly what they would like to know. Anyhow, we'll tackle

977
00:57:07,480 --> 00:57:10,480
Speaker 1: that another time. A project called Tessos raised two dred

978
00:57:10,480 --> 00:57:14,840
Speaker 1: and thirty two million dollars, again not insignificant junk of change.

979
00:57:15,640 --> 00:57:18,480
Speaker 1: And then Polka Dot, which was if you remember Gavin

980
00:57:18,520 --> 00:57:20,240
Speaker 1: Woods who used to work on with him, that was

981
00:57:20,280 --> 00:57:22,800
Speaker 1: his new project that raised a hundred and forty million

982
00:57:22,840 --> 00:57:26,080
Speaker 1: dollars and then lost quite a lot of it. I'm

983
00:57:26,080 --> 00:57:28,640
Speaker 1: looking forward to telling you this story and in another episode,

984
00:57:28,640 --> 00:57:32,800
Speaker 1: because this is just like only in CRYPTI really it's

985
00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:35,960
Speaker 1: a great that he actually just lose it. It's it's

986
00:57:36,040 --> 00:57:37,520
Speaker 1: like I lost the hard drive with all of it

987
00:57:37,560 --> 00:57:40,400
Speaker 1: on has gone. It wasn't it was kind of a

988
00:57:40,440 --> 00:57:45,080
Speaker 1: bit like that. Oh god. Yeah. Well, so, as I said,

989
00:57:45,240 --> 00:57:47,880
Speaker 1: really a crazy year for crypto in general, and a

990
00:57:48,040 --> 00:57:50,640
Speaker 1: great one for Ethereum. I think you really kind of

991
00:57:50,680 --> 00:57:52,760
Speaker 1: saw it come of age in this year and really

992
00:57:52,800 --> 00:57:55,880
Speaker 1: kind of bust its way into the into the public consciousness.

993
00:57:55,880 --> 00:57:57,680
Speaker 1: And this was the year that it became I think

994
00:57:57,720 --> 00:58:03,000
Speaker 1: the undisputed challenger to Bitcoin. And in fact, by August

995
00:58:03,520 --> 00:58:06,640
Speaker 1: there were more daily transactions taking place on Ethereum than

996
00:58:06,680 --> 00:58:08,600
Speaker 1: there were on Bitcoin, which I think is a really

997
00:58:08,640 --> 00:58:13,680
Speaker 1: significant statistic. And yeah, the the I c O craze

998
00:58:13,720 --> 00:58:17,040
Speaker 1: itself has become kind of famous for just the ridiculous

999
00:58:17,080 --> 00:58:19,479
Speaker 1: of it, you know, as we've discussed, even though rush

1000
00:58:19,560 --> 00:58:22,920
Speaker 1: for a yeah gold rusher, Yeah, basically, and it brought

1001
00:58:23,000 --> 00:58:26,360
Speaker 1: billions of dollars into crypto, So it was I think

1002
00:58:26,360 --> 00:58:27,440
Speaker 1: it was a good thing. I mean a lot of

1003
00:58:27,440 --> 00:58:29,200
Speaker 1: people got burned by I think, and you know, a

1004
00:58:29,240 --> 00:58:32,160
Speaker 1: lot of people, as I said, probably ended up losing

1005
00:58:32,200 --> 00:58:34,680
Speaker 1: money in the end, but a lot of people made

1006
00:58:34,680 --> 00:58:36,760
Speaker 1: a lot of money and crucially a lot of money

1007
00:58:36,840 --> 00:58:39,400
Speaker 1: came into into the crypto space. So it was it

1008
00:58:39,480 --> 00:58:43,240
Speaker 1: was a big year. However, it also highlighted a major

1009
00:58:43,280 --> 00:58:45,560
Speaker 1: flaw with the theorem which I alluded to earlier, the

1010
00:58:45,600 --> 00:58:47,720
Speaker 1: fact that the network kept getting clogged up with all

1011
00:58:47,760 --> 00:58:52,240
Speaker 1: of them. This was something that many people, including the Talk,

1012
00:58:52,400 --> 00:58:55,360
Speaker 1: were beginning to realize, and they were beginning to realize

1013
00:58:55,400 --> 00:58:59,320
Speaker 1: as well that something would need to be done. And

1014
00:58:59,480 --> 00:59:05,360
Speaker 1: that is where we're going to another another cliffhanger, because

1015
00:59:05,360 --> 00:59:08,360
Speaker 1: if you're listening to this week to week, like you're

1016
00:59:08,360 --> 00:59:11,120
Speaker 1: going to feel my pain, because it's going to take

1017
00:59:11,400 --> 00:59:14,440
Speaker 1: another week before we find out what's going on unless

1018
00:59:14,440 --> 00:59:16,040
Speaker 1: you do your own research, which I'm not going to do,

1019
00:59:18,560 --> 00:59:21,880
Speaker 1: and neither of you because this is easier and listening

1020
00:59:21,920 --> 00:59:24,120
Speaker 1: to this while you're doing the washing up, or you're

1021
00:59:24,160 --> 00:59:27,160
Speaker 1: in the gym or doing the school run exactly. This

1022
00:59:27,200 --> 00:59:29,880
Speaker 1: is what this is why we're here. Yeah, okay, let's

1023
00:59:29,960 --> 00:59:32,880
Speaker 1: quickly round this episode up. Then a quick conclusion. So

1024
00:59:32,960 --> 00:59:36,440
Speaker 1: by the end of ethereums market cap was around sixty

1025
00:59:36,760 --> 00:59:39,800
Speaker 1: billion dollars, and that was more than the next two

1026
00:59:40,040 --> 00:59:44,560
Speaker 1: projects combined, which incidentally, we're bitcoin cash and Ripple, which

1027
00:59:44,560 --> 00:59:48,520
Speaker 1: issues the XRP coin. It had survived the turbulence around

1028
00:59:48,520 --> 00:59:51,400
Speaker 1: the Dow hack and Shanghai attacks to become i would

1029
00:59:51,400 --> 00:59:53,920
Speaker 1: say stronger than ever, and we had this I c

1030
00:59:54,080 --> 00:59:56,640
Speaker 1: O Boom the following year that really drew attention to

1031
00:59:56,720 --> 00:59:59,680
Speaker 1: it and what it made possible. But at the same

1032
00:59:59,760 --> 01:00:03,760
Speaker 1: time I'm highlighting its flaws, saying it's less than perfect.

1033
01:00:03,760 --> 01:00:07,120
Speaker 1: It's amazing, but it could be a lot better. Dump dumb, dumb.

1034
01:00:07,640 --> 01:00:10,680
Speaker 1: So next time we will wrap up our potted history

1035
01:00:10,680 --> 01:00:13,240
Speaker 1: of Ethereum, bring us up to the present day, and

1036
01:00:13,280 --> 01:00:16,040
Speaker 1: we'll also look ahead to the biggest thing to happen

1037
01:00:16,120 --> 01:00:19,400
Speaker 1: to Ethereum since it's launched, which is on the horizon

1038
01:00:19,520 --> 01:00:25,520
Speaker 1: as we record this, and that is Ethereum to point

1039
01:00:26,320 --> 01:00:29,840
Speaker 1: point which we're which we're not allowed to call it anymore.

1040
01:00:29,880 --> 01:00:32,920
Speaker 1: They've changed the name, so it's it's now the execution

1041
01:00:33,000 --> 01:00:36,720
Speaker 1: Layer and the consensus Layer. That sounds ominous, Yeah it does,

1042
01:00:36,760 --> 01:00:39,560
Speaker 1: doesn't it um? So yeah, lots to look forward to.

1043
01:00:39,720 --> 01:00:42,919
Speaker 1: We will have another episode about Ethereum for you, but yeah,

1044
01:00:42,960 --> 01:00:44,640
Speaker 1: that will that will as I say, that will be

1045
01:00:44,680 --> 01:00:47,200
Speaker 1: episode number four. I think about the theorem, But that

1046
01:00:47,240 --> 01:00:50,600
Speaker 1: will bring us up to the present day, and yeah,

1047
01:00:50,720 --> 01:00:52,880
Speaker 1: what you don't know about Ethereum by that point won't

1048
01:00:52,960 --> 01:00:56,000
Speaker 1: be worth knowing. Well, yeah, I hope you, I hope

1049
01:00:56,000 --> 01:01:00,400
Speaker 1: you've enjoyed this episode I have have you. It's been fun,

1050
01:01:00,400 --> 01:01:05,280
Speaker 1: hasn't it. I I enjoyed our kind of spirited discussion

1051
01:01:05,320 --> 01:01:10,080
Speaker 1: about Coda's law and how there is a moral vacuum

1052
01:01:10,120 --> 01:01:12,000
Speaker 1: at the heart of you. Well I think, yeah, no,

1053
01:01:12,240 --> 01:01:14,920
Speaker 1: I think I think there is. I do have morals.

1054
01:01:15,000 --> 01:01:18,680
Speaker 1: I hide them behind some some stupid humor, bury them

1055
01:01:18,760 --> 01:01:24,360
Speaker 1: very deep. Yeah, but yeah, I know it's it's really interesting.

1056
01:01:24,600 --> 01:01:27,240
Speaker 1: It's a it's a great story, isn't It's a great story.

1057
01:01:27,280 --> 01:01:29,760
Speaker 1: And yeah, it's so much to unpack. But anyway, folks,

1058
01:01:29,760 --> 01:01:32,040
Speaker 1: I hope you've enjoyed this. We will be back next

1059
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Speaker 1: week with more ethereum chat, more spirited debate, and until then,

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Speaker 1: be well. Thank you so much for listening to the

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Speaker 1: coin Bureau podcast. If you'd like to learn more about cryptocurrency,

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Speaker 1: you can visit our YouTube channel at YouTube dot com

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Speaker 1: forward slash coin Bureau. You can also go to coin

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Speaker 1: bureau dot com for loads more information about all things crypto.

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Speaker 1: You can follow me on Twitter and at coin bureau

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Speaker 1: all one word, and I'm also active on TikTok and

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Speaker 1: Instagram as well. First of all, it's not thank you

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Speaker 1: for listening. You're welcome for great content. Yeah, like this

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Speaker 1: is free and they're learning about a fairly great topic

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Speaker 1: in a non boring way. If you'd like to visit

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Speaker 1: me and hear more about me, go to mooch About

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Speaker 1: m O O C H A b O U T

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Speaker 1: or else. For more podcasts from I heart Radio, visit

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Speaker 1: the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever we

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Speaker 1: get your podcasts. The coin Gera podcast is a production

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Speaker 1: of I heart Radio. Go