1 00:00:02,080 --> 00:00:05,760 Speaker 1: This is Wins and Losses with Clay Trevis, play talks 2 00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:09,879 Speaker 1: with the most entertaining people in sports, entertainment and business. 3 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:14,920 Speaker 1: Now here's Clay Trevis. Welcome Ed Winston lost his podcast. 4 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:17,960 Speaker 1: I am Clay Travis. We try to dive into fun 5 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:22,880 Speaker 1: and interesting stories from people all around the world, sports, media, business, politics, 6 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:25,480 Speaker 1: you name it, and figure out how they ended up 7 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 1: where they are now and some of the wins and 8 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:31,320 Speaker 1: losses they had along the way. Excited to be joined 9 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 1: this week by Colorado men's football coach I shouldn't have 10 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 1: to say men, but Colorado football coach Mel Tucker, who 11 00:00:38,159 --> 00:00:42,200 Speaker 1: has uh really done uh pretty well in year one 12 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:46,239 Speaker 1: with the Colorado football program so far. Uh. And we're 13 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:48,640 Speaker 1: gonna bring him in and figure out how he got 14 00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:51,879 Speaker 1: to where he is today. But first, Coach Tucker, appreciate 15 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 1: you joining us. My man Clay Man. Thanks thanks for 16 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:58,200 Speaker 1: having me on. I really appreciate it. Alright, So, uh, 17 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 1: first question for you, and we're going to get into 18 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:03,480 Speaker 1: a lot of other things, but when you go to 19 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:07,000 Speaker 1: work for Nick Saban, I believe as a graduate assistant 20 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:10,160 Speaker 1: in your very first I think this is your first 21 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:13,160 Speaker 1: football job coming out of Wisconsin, where you had played, 22 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:17,480 Speaker 1: uh undergrad? How many hours a week are you working? 23 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:19,560 Speaker 1: Because I like to start off with questions like that, 24 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 1: because there are a lot of people out there eighteen 25 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:26,760 Speaker 1: twenty two graduating from college who listened to this this program, 26 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:29,680 Speaker 1: and my big argument is you've got to start off 27 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:32,279 Speaker 1: at the bottom somewhere, and you also got to work 28 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:34,880 Speaker 1: a lot of hours. And I can only imagine what 29 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:37,800 Speaker 1: it's like to be a g A for Nick Saban 30 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:39,280 Speaker 1: back in the day. So how did that happen? And 31 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:44,480 Speaker 1: what was that? Like? Yeah, that's a good question. I uh, Coachban, 32 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:48,000 Speaker 1: I'm from Cleveland on how Um my dad played at 33 00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:52,080 Speaker 1: the the University of Toledo football and baseball. He's keeps 34 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:54,640 Speaker 1: in the Hall of Fame there. I came from school 35 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 1: one day, Ums senior, I picked the phone ring, I 36 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 1: picked it up and uh and he said, this is 37 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:04,640 Speaker 1: Nick Saban from the Houston Oilers. I'm like, Houston Oilers, 38 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 1: what you know? I know, I'm pretty decent player, but 39 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:10,680 Speaker 1: I'm not ready for the league yet. And he says 40 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:14,120 Speaker 1: he's I just I just uh became the head coach 41 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 1: at the University of Toledo where your dad played, and 42 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:18,639 Speaker 1: you're my top recruit and said, that's how I got 43 00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 1: to know Nick and coach Saban, and ultimately I end 44 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:24,720 Speaker 1: up I ended up going to Wisconsin, but I got 45 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:27,720 Speaker 1: to know Nick through the recruiting process. And so when 46 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 1: I decided to get into coaching, I called that I 47 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:33,840 Speaker 1: wanted to get into coaching. I called the coach Saban. 48 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:37,040 Speaker 1: He was at Michigan State at the time, and um 49 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:40,440 Speaker 1: and uh. He said that he had a g A 50 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:44,200 Speaker 1: spot open, a graduate assistant spot open, and he basically 51 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 1: hired me over the phone. He remembered me and um, 52 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 1: and So I went to work for Nick in ninety seven. 53 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 1: And my approach then was I was going to try 54 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:57,200 Speaker 1: to get done in one in one year what it 55 00:02:57,240 --> 00:03:01,000 Speaker 1: took a normal person three years ado And so I 56 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 1: figured that I only needed about four hours of sleep 57 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:07,359 Speaker 1: to be able to function. So that's and used to 58 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 1: be able to get a federal from g n C 59 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:13,480 Speaker 1: back in the day. And so I would what I 60 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:15,400 Speaker 1: would do was I would say how much sleep do 61 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 1: I need? Um, and then the rest of the time 62 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:20,840 Speaker 1: I would I would just work. So I would work, 63 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 1: you know, nineteen nineteen twenty hours a day. So this 64 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:28,240 Speaker 1: is crazy to me, Like the grind on that. So 65 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:32,240 Speaker 1: when you're in school at Wisconsin, how many hours a 66 00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 1: day are you sleeping as a normal college student who's 67 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:39,120 Speaker 1: playing college football. Yeah, I mean I think, uh, I 68 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:42,960 Speaker 1: think you're probably sleeping between six and eight hours a night, 69 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:46,640 Speaker 1: you know, depending on the day of the week. So 70 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 1: you're not one of these guys naturally who can just 71 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 1: like so you basically said I am going to do 72 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 1: whatever I can to to kill it at this job, 73 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 1: and you just basically put yourself through almost like boot camp, right, 74 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 1: You're just like I'm gonna I you thought you could 75 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:04,840 Speaker 1: get by on four hours a day? Was it possible? Yeah? 76 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 1: I got most of the week I could do that, 77 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:11,760 Speaker 1: and then I would I would crash uh some some days. Um, 78 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:13,560 Speaker 1: But there were some days, like the day after the 79 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:16,680 Speaker 1: like the day of a game, when we had to 80 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:19,120 Speaker 1: break down tape and get the scouting report ready the 81 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:21,760 Speaker 1: next day for the coaching staff. I just wouldn't go 82 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:24,800 Speaker 1: to sleep at all. And I usually slept a lot 83 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:26,320 Speaker 1: of a lot of nights. I just slept in the 84 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:28,799 Speaker 1: office in the in the g A office. I would 85 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:31,040 Speaker 1: take a towel out of the out the locker room. 86 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:34,160 Speaker 1: I would roll it up and I would sleep under 87 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:38,359 Speaker 1: my desk. How much are you getting paid to be 88 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:41,040 Speaker 1: a g A at the time, I was. I made 89 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:43,479 Speaker 1: four hundred bucks a month for two years, for two 90 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 1: seasons approximately. That is, So, how do you live on that? 91 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:51,640 Speaker 1: You don't? Yeah, you don't live on that. Uh? I 92 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:56,919 Speaker 1: actually uh, because I took out loans. Uh because I 93 00:04:56,920 --> 00:05:00,119 Speaker 1: actually had a car and so so I had to 94 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:03,920 Speaker 1: make my car payment. Where did you live? I lived? 95 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:07,360 Speaker 1: I lived in a in a in a kind of 96 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:13,160 Speaker 1: like a little uh apartment type of deal. Uh, like 97 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:15,520 Speaker 1: a kind of like a town home type deal with 98 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:19,080 Speaker 1: maybe two or three other Uh. There were a couple 99 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:22,360 Speaker 1: of athletic trainers that were gradual assistance. They needed a roommate, 100 00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:25,680 Speaker 1: and so I lived in one of in one of 101 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:29,159 Speaker 1: those rooms. And uh, I wasn't there very much, but 102 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 1: I did. I did. I wasn't homeless. I had I 103 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:35,080 Speaker 1: did have a play. But I mean, that's crazy that 104 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 1: when you think about it now, because you're the head 105 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:40,440 Speaker 1: coach at Colorado, when you think about it now, is 106 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 1: it wild to you that you would get a you 107 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:45,719 Speaker 1: would make a pillow out of, you know, out of 108 00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:48,440 Speaker 1: a towel and sleep underneath your desk like when you 109 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:51,400 Speaker 1: when you go back and you look at that, now, Uh, 110 00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 1: does it seem crazy or is that just how bad 111 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:56,800 Speaker 1: you wanted it that you would be willing to do that, 112 00:05:56,880 --> 00:05:59,200 Speaker 1: not just for you know, a week or two weeks 113 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:03,520 Speaker 1: or something, but set a time. Yeah. It Uh, I 114 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:07,480 Speaker 1: looked back on it, It doesn't seem that crazy to me, um, 115 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:10,960 Speaker 1: because you know it was really um. You know, the 116 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:14,080 Speaker 1: the other graduate assistance with me that that that first 117 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:19,919 Speaker 1: year was uh, Brian Polian was one. Chuck Butler was 118 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 1: the other one. Uh and uh and then Ted Eleson 119 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:28,280 Speaker 1: who works for Exos with the video deal now and uh, 120 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:30,960 Speaker 1: and then Brian Dable came in the next year. So 121 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 1: it was it was competitive, you know because back in 122 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:37,479 Speaker 1: the back in the day, you know, you didn't have 123 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:40,400 Speaker 1: all these analysts and quality control people. You had two 124 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 1: g as and he had too on the field and 125 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:45,440 Speaker 1: too off the field. Uh so too on the east 126 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 1: side of the ball. And so I started as an 127 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 1: off the field GEA. I was not allowed to go 128 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:52,760 Speaker 1: on the fielding coach. I was working also in the 129 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:57,000 Speaker 1: weight room. I was part of the video department. I 130 00:06:57,120 --> 00:07:01,520 Speaker 1: was checking classes and just really kind of inside breaking 131 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:04,720 Speaker 1: down tape and doing whatever I needed to do, and 132 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:08,400 Speaker 1: I needed to earn my spot on the field with 133 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:12,000 Speaker 1: coach Saman So Um, in my mind, I had to 134 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:15,360 Speaker 1: do whatever I had to do to impressed the coaching 135 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:19,520 Speaker 1: staff so that they would make the next season, the 136 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:21,640 Speaker 1: second season today would let me go on the field. 137 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:25,240 Speaker 1: How how tough of a boss was Nick Saban for 138 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:29,720 Speaker 1: a year old guy. How tough of a job was that? 139 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:33,360 Speaker 1: You know? It was? It was interesting because for for me, 140 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 1: it was not that it was not tough for me, Um, 141 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:41,400 Speaker 1: because I knew Nick and when I was in high school. 142 00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 1: I knew Coach Saban in high school and UM, and 143 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:48,080 Speaker 1: I had always had really really tough coaches in in 144 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:50,920 Speaker 1: in high school, and I had a really tough coach. 145 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:53,360 Speaker 1: I had tough coaches in college like I was in 146 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 1: Coach i Ris first recruiting class at Wisconsin and so UM, 147 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:01,880 Speaker 1: you know, we had you know, Bill Callahan and Brad Childress, 148 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 1: you know, John Palermo, Jay Norvell, you know, those were 149 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 1: my coaches and in college, and so I was pretty 150 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:14,800 Speaker 1: used to the to that mentality and that type of 151 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:19,880 Speaker 1: grind and UM, coach Saban Um really took a special 152 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:21,960 Speaker 1: interest in me and even though he was. He was 153 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 1: a confront and demand guy, like if you do something, 154 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:26,600 Speaker 1: if you do something wrong, He's going to confront you 155 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:29,160 Speaker 1: right there in front of everybody, doesn't matter when it is. 156 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:30,920 Speaker 1: It could be in the hallway, it could be on 157 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 1: the field, but he would he would always explain why 158 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 1: he what he wanted and why he wanted it that way. 159 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 1: And I really appreciated that because I felt like if 160 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:45,720 Speaker 1: I just if I just knew what he wanted, that 161 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:48,080 Speaker 1: I could I could I could get that done for him. 162 00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:50,880 Speaker 1: Be sure to catch live editions about Kicked the coverage 163 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:53,800 Speaker 1: with Clay Travis week days at six am Eastern three 164 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 1: am Pacific. What do you attribute your toughness too, because 165 00:08:57,400 --> 00:08:59,080 Speaker 1: I think a lot of people listening to us right 166 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 1: now we're talking to mel Tucker, Colorado men's football coach. 167 00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:03,959 Speaker 1: I don't know why I keep saying men, but we're 168 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:08,720 Speaker 1: talking to melt Tucker. When you when you break that down, 169 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:10,200 Speaker 1: I mean a lot of people are here and you 170 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:13,120 Speaker 1: know you're working nineteen twenty hours a day, sleeping underneath 171 00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:16,680 Speaker 1: your desk. That requires a certain level of toughness. You 172 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:19,880 Speaker 1: said you had tough coaches in college, but growing up 173 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:22,120 Speaker 1: where your parents tough on you. Where did you kind 174 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:25,600 Speaker 1: of get that integrit, that discipline to be willing and 175 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:30,400 Speaker 1: or able to put yourself through a job like that. Uh? My, 176 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:34,200 Speaker 1: I have great parents. I have two two younger brothers, 177 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 1: were all eight years apart, and uh, but you know, 178 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:39,680 Speaker 1: I was the only child for eight years and and 179 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:43,040 Speaker 1: uh you know my dad, um, you know, he raised 180 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:46,120 Speaker 1: me as a as an athlete. My mom was was 181 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:50,440 Speaker 1: was really only about academics and art season artist. But 182 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:54,760 Speaker 1: my my dad even um, even as a young I 183 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:57,840 Speaker 1: was always he played sand lot baseball, you know, for 184 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:01,000 Speaker 1: for many years. You know, he would work during the 185 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:03,080 Speaker 1: days and in the evenings he would play like triple 186 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:05,559 Speaker 1: a salt a lot baseball. And I was always like 187 00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:08,760 Speaker 1: the bat boy, And so I got a chance to 188 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:13,200 Speaker 1: see him, uh you know, play through pain and you know, 189 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:16,439 Speaker 1: and he would have strawberries on his hips from from 190 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:20,040 Speaker 1: sliding into the second base or whatever. And and I 191 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:22,880 Speaker 1: was always around all these all these these older guys 192 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:24,560 Speaker 1: that some of these guys were trying to still make 193 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:26,679 Speaker 1: it in pro baseball. He was just really playing at 194 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 1: that time for the love of the game. And my 195 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:32,599 Speaker 1: dad would always tell me stories about football when he 196 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:36,600 Speaker 1: played for Frank Laudaborg at Toledo UM. And he would 197 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:40,600 Speaker 1: always talk to me about toughness and and uh. And 198 00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:43,120 Speaker 1: you know he was my first UH coach in Little 199 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:46,440 Speaker 1: League baseball UM and uh. You know, I was one 200 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 1: of the few guys that could they could play every position. 201 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:51,320 Speaker 1: And and uh, I would catch for him. And even 202 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:54,240 Speaker 1: though I would have a sprain thumb, you know, he 203 00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:56,680 Speaker 1: would say, he would say rock my nickname was Rocky, 204 00:10:56,720 --> 00:10:58,680 Speaker 1: Say Rock, Man, I need you to catch for me today. 205 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 1: And uh. And so I would go in there and 206 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:02,800 Speaker 1: I would care every time that ball would come in there. Man, 207 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:04,720 Speaker 1: it would just I wanted to throw my glove across 208 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:07,640 Speaker 1: over the fence, you know. But he just was always 209 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:10,960 Speaker 1: talking to me about you know, old school football. And 210 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:13,640 Speaker 1: you know, I'm from Ohio. You know, football's huge to 211 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:17,880 Speaker 1: Cleveland Browns. Um It's a big you know Ohio state. 212 00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:21,120 Speaker 1: You know. It was just the whole culture of you know, 213 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:27,840 Speaker 1: midwest Cleveland, Ohio. You know, you know, freezing weather, you know, 214 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:30,000 Speaker 1: playing out, playing out in the street. We used to 215 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:32,200 Speaker 1: play back in the day. You know, we used to 216 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:35,240 Speaker 1: play street ball, you know, with no paths, you know, 217 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:39,800 Speaker 1: just one one street versus the next one neighborhood versus 218 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:43,120 Speaker 1: the next. And in my first eight years we lived 219 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:46,880 Speaker 1: in the city, UM, when it was before the Cleveland 220 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 1: Clinic came in and uh kind of revamped that area, 221 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:54,440 Speaker 1: and so it was it was a little rough you 222 00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:58,080 Speaker 1: know down there, um as well, and so UM, you know, 223 00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:01,120 Speaker 1: it's just it was just kind of a it was 224 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:05,320 Speaker 1: just a culture and environment of you know, just hard nosed, 225 00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:10,319 Speaker 1: hard work. UM. You know. Uh, my dad would always 226 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:13,640 Speaker 1: ask me UM. And my dad is the nicest guy 227 00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:15,080 Speaker 1: in the world. I mean, I love him to death, 228 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:17,160 Speaker 1: and he was like a great He's a great person, 229 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:19,720 Speaker 1: a great he was a great coach for me younger. 230 00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 1: But he would all always ask me, are you hurt? 231 00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:26,480 Speaker 1: Or are you injured? And so that's kind of how 232 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:30,600 Speaker 1: I evaluate everything. And I think that UM kind of 233 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:33,680 Speaker 1: laid the foundation for me to be able to um, 234 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 1: to be able to uh you know, persevere through you know, 235 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:41,000 Speaker 1: middle school, uh, you know, high school and college just 236 00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:44,280 Speaker 1: um and being around really tough coaches. I'm coaching, you know, 237 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:46,720 Speaker 1: back in the day was well, I think it was 238 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:49,920 Speaker 1: a little bit different than it is now. You know. Um, 239 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:53,280 Speaker 1: it was it was just there wasn't a lot of 240 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 1: load management. No, no, there was there there was There 241 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:00,960 Speaker 1: was none of that. I can remember. Actually, Um, because 242 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:03,920 Speaker 1: my my dad had a friend who played at Michigan 243 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:06,800 Speaker 1: and he worked for the He worked for the gas company. 244 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:09,280 Speaker 1: He would he would read meters, but he also trained 245 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 1: kids on the side. That was his hobby and he 246 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:14,920 Speaker 1: kind of picked me up and started training me when 247 00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:17,560 Speaker 1: I was in high school. So we would practicing fall 248 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:19,480 Speaker 1: in in the in the fall. We would do two 249 00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:20,960 Speaker 1: of days and then I would do a third with 250 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:25,160 Speaker 1: him afterwards. I did that for about two seasons. So, um, 251 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 1: I'm just kind of used to it. Did you want 252 00:13:27,559 --> 00:13:29,920 Speaker 1: to go you end up at Wisconsin? Uh? And you 253 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:32,240 Speaker 1: said that. Nick Saban called when he got the Toledo 254 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:34,440 Speaker 1: job and he was trying to recruit you. Did you 255 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:36,320 Speaker 1: want to go to Ohio state? Did you want to 256 00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:38,120 Speaker 1: stay in the state of Ohio? How did you end 257 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:42,000 Speaker 1: up at Wisconsin? Yeah? I wanted to go to a 258 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:44,280 Speaker 1: house state, like in the worst way. I was like, 259 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 1: that was like my dream. And I played basketball also, 260 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:49,520 Speaker 1: and then once I realized I wasn't going to be 261 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:52,800 Speaker 1: a big time basketball player, I decided to really just 262 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:55,240 Speaker 1: hone in on football and I really wanted to go 263 00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:58,160 Speaker 1: to a house state. UM. I think maybe that year 264 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:01,400 Speaker 1: they they took him Walton, who's a good who's a 265 00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:03,840 Speaker 1: good friend of mine. He coaches in the NFL. Now 266 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:07,720 Speaker 1: there was another another defensive back they took and um 267 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:11,800 Speaker 1: they basically you know, turned me down. And so, UM, 268 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:15,560 Speaker 1: I was how tough? How tough was that for you 269 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:17,840 Speaker 1: as a kid growing up in Ohio wanting to go 270 00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:21,680 Speaker 1: to Ohio State not to get that option. Um, it was, 271 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:25,480 Speaker 1: it was, it was. It was tough, but you know, 272 00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:28,360 Speaker 1: it was it was the reality. I mean, you know, 273 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:31,560 Speaker 1: I knew that, Um, I was going to have other opportunities. 274 00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 1: Um and uh, it just uh you know, I was 275 00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:38,320 Speaker 1: I was really grateful to have the opportunity to have 276 00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 1: a scholarship because I knew that my parents couldn't afford 277 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:44,400 Speaker 1: to pay for my school, you know. So, um, you know, 278 00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:47,800 Speaker 1: I initially I was committed to the Air Force Academy 279 00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:53,120 Speaker 1: with I was a wishbone quarterback. Um for we ran 280 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:55,680 Speaker 1: the exact same offense that Air Force ran. I was 281 00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:58,240 Speaker 1: watching Air Force film. My coach had me watching Air 282 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:02,720 Speaker 1: Force film since since I was greater. Um and uh, 283 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:06,200 Speaker 1: and I was committed there and U and I and 284 00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:08,920 Speaker 1: I was gonna do that. And then coach coach Areas 285 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:12,960 Speaker 1: got the job at at Wisconsin. He left Notre Dame. 286 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 1: I think they won the national the national championship. He 287 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:20,080 Speaker 1: gets the Wisconsin job, and um, you know, Chuck Heater 288 00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:22,960 Speaker 1: was recruiting me and Notre Dame also because they were 289 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:24,720 Speaker 1: you know, they had Tony Rice. They were running some 290 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:28,280 Speaker 1: wishbone stuff. Um, and they were running some kind of 291 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:32,360 Speaker 1: some options stuff and and uh, he called me one day. 292 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 1: He called me one day after coach Alres got the job, 293 00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:37,360 Speaker 1: and I thought he was calling me to to bring 294 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:39,960 Speaker 1: me in on the offer, to bring me on a 295 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:42,760 Speaker 1: on a visit, to offer me because he had stayed 296 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:44,480 Speaker 1: in touch with me. He says, I think that there 297 00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:46,080 Speaker 1: might be a shot for me to for you to 298 00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:48,720 Speaker 1: come to Notre Dame. And he called me said, listen, Melis, 299 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:52,200 Speaker 1: I can't take you here at Notre Dame, but um, 300 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:55,960 Speaker 1: Barry Avres just got the job at Wisconsin and you 301 00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 1: should take a look. And well, I'm gonna have them 302 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 1: call you. And I said okay. And then so Rush 303 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:06,360 Speaker 1: Jake's who called me from Wisconsin had just been hurt 304 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:09,440 Speaker 1: as the offensive coordinator here recruited a friend of my name, 305 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:12,040 Speaker 1: Chip Morris, to the Northwestern a few years earlier, so 306 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:14,640 Speaker 1: I knew coach Jakes. He's also a Cleveland guy, a 307 00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:20,520 Speaker 1: Westside guy. And he called me and said, mel um um, 308 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:23,160 Speaker 1: we just got here to Wisconsin. I know that coach 309 00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 1: coach heater uh says a lot of good things about you. 310 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:29,320 Speaker 1: You know me from when I recruited Chip Morris. We 311 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:32,480 Speaker 1: want you to come come take a look. And I said, 312 00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:34,920 Speaker 1: He said, I know you're committed to air Force, but 313 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 1: we want you to come take a look. I'd already 314 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:42,440 Speaker 1: used all my five visits, so my dad's friend paid. Um, 315 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:46,120 Speaker 1: my dad's friend paid for my my travel UH tow 316 00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:49,280 Speaker 1: up to Wisconsin. I went there on basically an unofficial 317 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:52,880 Speaker 1: because I used all my visits and and I fell 318 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 1: in love with the place and it and it really 319 00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:58,440 Speaker 1: it gave me. It gave me an opportunity to uh 320 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:02,960 Speaker 1: to play, to play Big Tam football. Fox Sports Radio 321 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:05,880 Speaker 1: has the best sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch 322 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:09,320 Speaker 1: all of our shows at Fox sports Radio dot com 323 00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 1: and within the I Heart Radio app search f s 324 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:15,359 Speaker 1: R to listen live. All right, I want to go 325 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:16,760 Speaker 1: to that in a sect, but I want to go 326 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:19,560 Speaker 1: back to and we're talking to Mail Tucker, Colorado football coach. 327 00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:22,480 Speaker 1: I want to go back to the air Force. So 328 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:25,240 Speaker 1: you are committed to go to air Force, you obviously 329 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:27,440 Speaker 1: have to be a good student, you have to have 330 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:32,320 Speaker 1: great you know, great resume, good referrals, all of those things. 331 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:36,040 Speaker 1: Do you ever wonder what your life would have become 332 00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:39,000 Speaker 1: if you had gone to Air Force instead of Wisconsin? 333 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:44,000 Speaker 1: I do, I do. I think about that quite a bit. Um. 334 00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:45,800 Speaker 1: And as a matter of fact, when I got when 335 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:49,560 Speaker 1: I got here to boat, Yeah, we had a fundraiser 336 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:52,159 Speaker 1: down in Denver and it was you know, coach Fisher 337 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:56,000 Speaker 1: DeBerry was was a big part of that fundraiser and 338 00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:58,040 Speaker 1: so he and I actually got a chance to talk 339 00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:00,920 Speaker 1: about that a little bit. And because we kind of 340 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:04,080 Speaker 1: stayed in touch over the years and uh, and it 341 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:06,280 Speaker 1: was one of those deals where, you know, my mom 342 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:09,400 Speaker 1: wanted me to go to Air Force because of the education, 343 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:12,159 Speaker 1: and my my dad wanted me to play in the 344 00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:17,600 Speaker 1: Big Ten and um, and I and I remember saying that, 345 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:23,480 Speaker 1: you know that if I couldn't play at Ohio State, UM, 346 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:27,959 Speaker 1: then you know, maybe I should just go to Wisconsin 347 00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:32,040 Speaker 1: and and do that. But I do think about, um, 348 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:36,879 Speaker 1: you know, the military commitment, you know, the service commitment. 349 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:41,480 Speaker 1: You know, after being in the academy that I I 350 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:44,520 Speaker 1: think it was five years that I wouldn't have committed, 351 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:48,960 Speaker 1: and so it was things what things would probably have 352 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:51,720 Speaker 1: been a lot a lot different for me. Yeah, And 353 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:55,000 Speaker 1: I'm curious when you go to Air Force and you commit, 354 00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:57,919 Speaker 1: have you flown it? Like? Do they put you in 355 00:18:57,960 --> 00:18:59,840 Speaker 1: a fighter jet? I mean, how do you know that 356 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:02,960 Speaker 1: you want to be potentially in the Air Force. I mean, 357 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 1: I know everybody doesn't fly airplanes, but do you have 358 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:08,879 Speaker 1: I mean, I do you have any conception for that? Like? 359 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:11,760 Speaker 1: How did you pick Air Force over say, Army or Navy? 360 00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:13,840 Speaker 1: Was it this idea of hey, I'd like to be 361 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:15,600 Speaker 1: a pilot one day. How how do you pick it? 362 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:18,479 Speaker 1: Obviously football factors in, but how do you pick that 363 00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:21,560 Speaker 1: service academy over the others? No, it was it was 364 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:25,399 Speaker 1: really football driven for me because Sammy, they run that 365 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:28,640 Speaker 1: same offense that you were running already. I guess yes. 366 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:33,720 Speaker 1: And Sammy stein Mark was recruited UM Cleveland and he 367 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:36,520 Speaker 1: recruited me since I was a freshman in high school 368 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:41,160 Speaker 1: and so I knew I knew Sammy. Um and uh 369 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:43,399 Speaker 1: and and so that was and and and so that 370 00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:45,919 Speaker 1: was always kind of in my in my mind about 371 00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:48,600 Speaker 1: you know, going to Air Force and running the Wishbone. 372 00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:51,679 Speaker 1: And then as I got as I got older, and 373 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:54,600 Speaker 1: I started to take and then I started to take visits. 374 00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 1: You know, I fell in love with the place. You know, 375 00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:59,400 Speaker 1: I flew in. I had never seen the mountains. Um. 376 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:03,359 Speaker 1: It was just a really different experience for me. Um. 377 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:05,840 Speaker 1: And I knew that I could. I knew that I 378 00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:07,720 Speaker 1: could do it. I knew that it would be really hard, 379 00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:09,280 Speaker 1: but I knew that I could do it. They did 380 00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:11,880 Speaker 1: put me in a in a in a jet while 381 00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:16,119 Speaker 1: I was there. What it was, it was awesome, It 382 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:18,919 Speaker 1: was great, you know. And they had just kind of 383 00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:22,439 Speaker 1: shut down to the the tourists that to Neurat at 384 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:25,040 Speaker 1: that so I didn't get a chance to go there. Um, 385 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:27,439 Speaker 1: but I was just kind of fascinated with the whole 386 00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:29,640 Speaker 1: the whole thing. But I had I had a had 387 00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:33,040 Speaker 1: a personal relationship with Coach Wasch with Coach stein Mark. 388 00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:36,120 Speaker 1: I mean I knew him, like I know, I knew 389 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:38,920 Speaker 1: him for like four years and so um, I was 390 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:40,880 Speaker 1: very comfortable with him and he you know, he would 391 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:44,240 Speaker 1: always tell me about how, UM, if you know you, 392 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:47,960 Speaker 1: if you can graduate from the Air Force Academy, you know, 393 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:50,919 Speaker 1: you'd be set for life. And I had heard that 394 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:54,600 Speaker 1: from him so many times, and that was important to 395 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 1: me into and to my to my family. Um, did 396 00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:01,119 Speaker 1: I get an education that I would be able to be, Um, 397 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:04,159 Speaker 1: they'll be successful in life after football. So you know 398 00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:06,600 Speaker 1: that appealed to me. And I remember when I came 399 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:11,600 Speaker 1: back from my Wisconsin trip, um, and I think it 400 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:13,720 Speaker 1: was a Monday, I went to school. When I came 401 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:19,400 Speaker 1: back from school. Um, on that Monday, UM, CoA coach 402 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:21,600 Speaker 1: stein Mark was sitting in my in my living room 403 00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:25,960 Speaker 1: with my mom. My mom was in tears, you know, 404 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:29,399 Speaker 1: so UM. And and then I got into coaching, and 405 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:31,359 Speaker 1: Coach stein Mark was still coaching, you know at the 406 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:34,440 Speaker 1: time obviously, and so you know he and I that 407 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:38,560 Speaker 1: you know, remain you know, friends for for many many years. 408 00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:40,679 Speaker 1: So I want to go back to that moment. So 409 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:43,399 Speaker 1: you come back after the Wisconsin visit, this coach that 410 00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:46,280 Speaker 1: you developed a great relationship with is in your house. 411 00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:49,480 Speaker 1: Your mom is crying over the fact that she wants 412 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:52,199 Speaker 1: you to go to Air Force. It's hard to say no. 413 00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:55,440 Speaker 1: People talk a lot about saying yes, it's also hard 414 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:57,879 Speaker 1: to say no. Particularly, I think about this a lot 415 00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:01,000 Speaker 1: when you're a sixteen, seventeen, eighteen year old kid, and 416 00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:03,760 Speaker 1: now you're in the business of recruiting those kids, so 417 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:08,119 Speaker 1: you've actually been through this yourself. How difficult was it 418 00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:11,680 Speaker 1: to say no to Air Force not say yes to Wisconsin? 419 00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:13,960 Speaker 1: Because a lot of times, when you say yes, it's easy, 420 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:17,480 Speaker 1: it feels good, you're making somebody happy. Saying yes it 421 00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:21,000 Speaker 1: is easy. Saying no it's hard. How did you have 422 00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:24,640 Speaker 1: the strength there with your mom crying, with that situation, 423 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:27,280 Speaker 1: It's a lot of pressure on a young kid. How 424 00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:30,560 Speaker 1: did you know that Wisconsin was the right call? And 425 00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:34,160 Speaker 1: how did you have the strength to say no? Yeah, 426 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:37,000 Speaker 1: it was very difficult for me. I had. I had 427 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:40,919 Speaker 1: a really tough time with it because I actually I 428 00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:43,800 Speaker 1: loved coach Stin Mark. I mean he was like, he 429 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:47,320 Speaker 1: was like my guy, like I like, I really really 430 00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:51,679 Speaker 1: like said a lot of respect for him. And you know, 431 00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:53,879 Speaker 1: my mom was all about education. All she wanted me 432 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:56,240 Speaker 1: to do was, you know, get a get a degree 433 00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:58,000 Speaker 1: and be happy. She I don't think she really cared 434 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:02,399 Speaker 1: too much about about football, you know, so um, you know, 435 00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:05,760 Speaker 1: but you know again, you know, I was I was 436 00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:08,639 Speaker 1: an only child for like eight years, and so you know, 437 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:10,119 Speaker 1: when you're an only child, you know, you spent a 438 00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:13,320 Speaker 1: lot of time alone, uh and just kind of you know, 439 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:16,439 Speaker 1: taking things in and you know, and just kind of 440 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:17,560 Speaker 1: make it. You know. I just spent a lot of 441 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:22,760 Speaker 1: time with myself, and and I knew, um that I 442 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:25,720 Speaker 1: had to do I had to follow my gut and 443 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:28,880 Speaker 1: my instinct and and kind of do what I want 444 00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:30,920 Speaker 1: to do because you know, I was the one that 445 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:33,920 Speaker 1: was going to have to do it. And and uh, 446 00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:36,760 Speaker 1: and I knew that my and I knew that, you know, 447 00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:41,800 Speaker 1: that Wisconsin was a great academic institution also, and I 448 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:43,719 Speaker 1: knew at the end of the day, as long as 449 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:46,879 Speaker 1: I graduated, my mom would be okay with it. And 450 00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:52,320 Speaker 1: so um, you know, I just you know, I just um, 451 00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:55,440 Speaker 1: you know, I just want my dad, my dad. I 452 00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:57,639 Speaker 1: kind of knew that my dad wanted me. I'm a 453 00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:00,200 Speaker 1: daddy's boy, you know at the time, and so I 454 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:02,399 Speaker 1: kind of knew that my dad wanted me to to 455 00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:05,000 Speaker 1: play in the Big Ten if I could, you know, 456 00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:10,320 Speaker 1: And and I did also, um, and and then you know, 457 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:13,480 Speaker 1: Coach Alvarez. You know, I really hit it off with him. 458 00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:15,439 Speaker 1: You know, he's a he's a man's man. You know, 459 00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:18,239 Speaker 1: he just had a lot of charisma he had, you know, 460 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:21,680 Speaker 1: he just you know, he was a defensive guy. And 461 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:24,440 Speaker 1: you know Russ Jakes, I had known him from when 462 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:27,280 Speaker 1: he recruited Chip Morrison Northwestern. So I had connections there. 463 00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:30,960 Speaker 1: And Donna Celila was the was the chancellor at the 464 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:34,840 Speaker 1: time at Wisconsin and she, um you know she's from 465 00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:38,280 Speaker 1: she was from Cleveland, and she was involved in my 466 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:43,439 Speaker 1: recruitment um there. And so um, so I had some 467 00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:47,159 Speaker 1: I had some some connections um there actually you know, 468 00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:51,880 Speaker 1: kind of had maybe ultimately more connection uh to Wisconsin 469 00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:55,239 Speaker 1: than than Air Force, um ultimately. And then you know 470 00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:57,879 Speaker 1: one of my dad the the guy one of the 471 00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:00,280 Speaker 1: coaches who recruited my dad to to the you know, 472 00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:03,840 Speaker 1: his name was Mario Russo. He was in the athletic 473 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:08,000 Speaker 1: department retired but in the athletic department retired retired from coaching, 474 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:10,960 Speaker 1: but in the athletic department at Wisconsin at that time. 475 00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:15,080 Speaker 1: And so, um, my dad felt like there were there 476 00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:17,959 Speaker 1: were people there that would look out for me if 477 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:21,080 Speaker 1: I went to Wisconsin. And so Um, I just had 478 00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:24,359 Speaker 1: to go with my gut and um it was a 479 00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:28,080 Speaker 1: really tough decision. But UM, I tried when I once 480 00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:30,040 Speaker 1: I made that decision, I tried to not not to 481 00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:33,359 Speaker 1: look back. You said your mom was an artist or 482 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:35,480 Speaker 1: is an artist? What what kind of art did she do? 483 00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:42,000 Speaker 1: She paints? She she paints, Um, she does she she um? 484 00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:46,920 Speaker 1: She also um, she sould. So she did costumes for plays. 485 00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:50,199 Speaker 1: Is she still in Cleveland today? Yeah, my parents are 486 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:53,800 Speaker 1: in Cleveland there in Cleveland Heights. Um, my my middle 487 00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:56,840 Speaker 1: brother is in my Dina or how where I live 488 00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:59,040 Speaker 1: when I coached for the Browns, and then my my 489 00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:03,679 Speaker 1: youngest brothers is out in l a um trying to 490 00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:09,240 Speaker 1: make it. He's like a photographer, hip hop blogger, uh, 491 00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:13,359 Speaker 1: talent manager. You know, he's kind of he's kind of 492 00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:16,760 Speaker 1: doing his thing out there. He's got he's got a high. 493 00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:19,239 Speaker 1: He does a little bit of everything. Yeah, he does 494 00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:21,720 Speaker 1: a little bit everything. He actually comes comes here to 495 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:25,560 Speaker 1: the c U games and gets um and he gets 496 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:28,840 Speaker 1: they hire him sometimes when he gets a a press 497 00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:33,440 Speaker 1: pass and he uh, he shoots photos for our games 498 00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:36,720 Speaker 1: here sometimes. Be sure to catch live editions about kick 499 00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:39,920 Speaker 1: the Coverage with Clay Travis week days at six am Eastern, 500 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:43,760 Speaker 1: three am Pacific. So we're talking to melt Tucker, Colorado 501 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:48,480 Speaker 1: football coach. All Right, you go to Wisconsin. Ohio is cold. 502 00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:53,080 Speaker 1: Cleveland can be cold. My understanding is it probably ain't 503 00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:57,400 Speaker 1: like Wisconsin cold. Were you homesick? You get up there 504 00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:00,880 Speaker 1: and and in your first year, do you ever questioned 505 00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:04,440 Speaker 1: the decision that you made? Well? I did? I did. 506 00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:06,919 Speaker 1: I was. I was very homesick. I was. I was 507 00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:11,800 Speaker 1: eight hours away in the car and um, and I 508 00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:14,240 Speaker 1: wasn't able to get I wasn't able to get home 509 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:17,000 Speaker 1: very much at all. My parents, my dad was not 510 00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:19,320 Speaker 1: able to come, was not able to come see me 511 00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:24,640 Speaker 1: play often. UM. And my dad rarely missed any game 512 00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:26,440 Speaker 1: that I played growing up. So that was a lot 513 00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:30,240 Speaker 1: different for me and UM. You know, we struggled our 514 00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:32,639 Speaker 1: first year. We were one and ten. You know, I 515 00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:35,560 Speaker 1: was been moved to defensive back. You know, I played 516 00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:39,120 Speaker 1: both ways. I played defensive back in high school also. Um, 517 00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:42,160 Speaker 1: but you know, I spent maybe one day at quarterback 518 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:45,240 Speaker 1: and then they moved me to corner. Um, and it 519 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:48,359 Speaker 1: was just uh and I wasn't you know, I wasn't 520 00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:50,480 Speaker 1: really playing a lot and it was just it was 521 00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:53,679 Speaker 1: just a totally different, um deal from high school. You know, 522 00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:55,840 Speaker 1: from high school for me, and I struggled, you know, 523 00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,000 Speaker 1: I was I was always one of the you know, 524 00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:01,800 Speaker 1: one of the best players. Um, and uh, when I 525 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:04,480 Speaker 1: got to Wisconsin, it was just a kind of a 526 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:07,600 Speaker 1: reality check for me. Um. And it was a little 527 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:11,800 Speaker 1: bit of a culture shock as well. Um. The code 528 00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:13,400 Speaker 1: didn't bother me because I was used to the code. 529 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:17,520 Speaker 1: It was just uh, you know, you know, my freshmanror 530 00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:19,679 Speaker 1: we were we were sitting and we were sitting the dorms, 531 00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:22,000 Speaker 1: you know, my roommates and some of the freshmen we 532 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:24,920 Speaker 1: were sitting in the dorms and over the winter and saying, man, 533 00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:26,840 Speaker 1: how the heck did they trick us into coming up here? 534 00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:31,560 Speaker 1: You know, you know, And there was there was several 535 00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:35,480 Speaker 1: times when I when I when I you know, I 536 00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:39,360 Speaker 1: would call home and um, you know, I was I 537 00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:41,720 Speaker 1: would tell him. I would tell my my parents that 538 00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:44,440 Speaker 1: I wanted to that I should have gone the Air 539 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:47,920 Speaker 1: Force and be and be a quarterback, you know, just 540 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:50,800 Speaker 1: an option quarterback. And so mom, you know, of course, 541 00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:52,280 Speaker 1: you know, your mom wants you to be happy. So 542 00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:54,160 Speaker 1: she's like, well, maybe you maybe you can leave and 543 00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:56,640 Speaker 1: my Dad's like, no, it's too late. You gotta you 544 00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:59,600 Speaker 1: gotta take it out, you know, and it's gonna work out. 545 00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:02,320 Speaker 1: So I went through that and that really helps me, 546 00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:05,760 Speaker 1: you know, dealing with you know, to help the players 547 00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:08,600 Speaker 1: that off coast over the last twenty three years. It 548 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:11,760 Speaker 1: helps me, um, you know, trying of relate to them 549 00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:14,440 Speaker 1: as well when that happens. Yeah. Again, We've got a 550 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:17,000 Speaker 1: lot of college kids or young people who listen to this. 551 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:21,240 Speaker 1: And and I think that that homesickness is so underrated 552 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:24,160 Speaker 1: and undertalked about if you go very far away, you know, 553 00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:26,280 Speaker 1: if you're somewhere where you can't get in a car 554 00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:29,479 Speaker 1: or your parents can't get to you easily. And I 555 00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:32,800 Speaker 1: know technology has changed a little bit, but I was 556 00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:35,800 Speaker 1: so homesick my firstman year in Washington, d C. Like right, 557 00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:38,320 Speaker 1: I was. I was like I missed, I missed home 558 00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:43,080 Speaker 1: so much. And I think that gets underrated. And I'm sure, uh, 559 00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:45,360 Speaker 1: you know, a lot of that is a cultural fit, 560 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:47,320 Speaker 1: you know, and ending up at a city school when 561 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:50,240 Speaker 1: you're a young kid, but also for you now having 562 00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:53,440 Speaker 1: been a player, but also coaching, you're bringing guys in 563 00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:56,480 Speaker 1: who oftentimes are coming in and they have the responsibilities 564 00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:59,120 Speaker 1: not just of academically trying to stay on top of things, 565 00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:02,400 Speaker 1: but you're dealing with just a huge cultural change in 566 00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:04,920 Speaker 1: your life, right and it's a kind of an overwhelming 567 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:08,280 Speaker 1: moment for a lot of people regular freshman as well, 568 00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:12,360 Speaker 1: but I think even more so for athletes. Yeah, it's uh, 569 00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:16,000 Speaker 1: you know, it was. It was. It was a difficult transition, um, 570 00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:18,360 Speaker 1: not just on the football side of it. But you know, 571 00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:21,479 Speaker 1: so when we we moved when I was eight, we 572 00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:24,080 Speaker 1: moved from the city to University of Heights, Ohio, and 573 00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:25,880 Speaker 1: I went to Cleveland Heights High School. So that was 574 00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:29,960 Speaker 1: a it was a the foundation of that that community 575 00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:33,680 Speaker 1: was a it was a Jewish community, um. And so 576 00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:37,800 Speaker 1: it was it was a mixed deal. Um. And my 577 00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:41,920 Speaker 1: high school was was was very very diverse, um and 578 00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:47,920 Speaker 1: so you know, but Wisconsin was not as diverse and 579 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:50,520 Speaker 1: um and so that was and then you know, I 580 00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:52,640 Speaker 1: would go in I went, I was go into like 581 00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:55,840 Speaker 1: lecture halls. Um. You know, as a freshman, you know, 582 00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:58,960 Speaker 1: you got you know, whatever one on one or psych 583 00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:00,360 Speaker 1: one on one. Are you going in there and you 584 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:03,000 Speaker 1: know there's three people in there, you know, and there's 585 00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:05,040 Speaker 1: you know, maybe two or three football players were sitting 586 00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:07,320 Speaker 1: in the back, you know, and like we're the only 587 00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:09,160 Speaker 1: ones in there to look like us, you know, kind 588 00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:11,960 Speaker 1: of like what you know, this is what's this? And 589 00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:16,080 Speaker 1: you know, um, you feel like people are just staring 590 00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:18,719 Speaker 1: at you. You know, now whether they were they weren't, 591 00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:21,880 Speaker 1: and they probably weren't, but you kind of feel like that, 592 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:25,280 Speaker 1: you know. So that was part of it. And you know, um, 593 00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:30,520 Speaker 1: there was we didn't have you know, my my dad worked. 594 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:34,680 Speaker 1: My dad worked full time and so I didn't really 595 00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:40,040 Speaker 1: qualify for like pel grant and stuff like that. But 596 00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:43,120 Speaker 1: but I didn't have I didn't have money. I didn't 597 00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:47,280 Speaker 1: have like any disposable you know money, and there was 598 00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:49,640 Speaker 1: no cost of attendance back then like there is now, 599 00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:53,280 Speaker 1: you know. So um it was you know it was 600 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:57,520 Speaker 1: room board, tuition fees. Uh, that was it. You know, 601 00:31:57,600 --> 00:31:59,920 Speaker 1: so I'm pretty much I'm up there. It was kind 602 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,520 Speaker 1: and like I have like no money, literally no money 603 00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:06,440 Speaker 1: in your pocket or your wall, yeah nothing, you know. 604 00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:10,240 Speaker 1: So uh that was no really no no real way 605 00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:14,120 Speaker 1: to get home, um, you know, or or for my 606 00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:18,080 Speaker 1: parents to get up get up there often. So um, 607 00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:20,000 Speaker 1: that was that was a that was a that was 608 00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:22,920 Speaker 1: a little bit of a transition. Now, the good news 609 00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:24,800 Speaker 1: is that I wasn't the only one on the team 610 00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:29,040 Speaker 1: like that, you know, and so um, you know my 611 00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:32,120 Speaker 1: you know my roommates, uh, you know, over the years, 612 00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:36,960 Speaker 1: you know, Carlos Fowler, Brent Moss, Terrell Fletcher, Lamark Shackelford, 613 00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:41,600 Speaker 1: you know, Mike London, you know J C. Dawkins, you 614 00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:44,640 Speaker 1: know all those guys. Um, you know, we became very 615 00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:46,520 Speaker 1: very close. And that's kind of you know, how we 616 00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:49,880 Speaker 1: made it through. And and uh j C And and 617 00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:52,720 Speaker 1: um j c And and Brent Moss were from Racine, 618 00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:57,880 Speaker 1: Wisconsin and Shock was from Gary, Indiana. So when we 619 00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:00,280 Speaker 1: had time to go, like we had a like a 620 00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:02,040 Speaker 1: long weekend or we had a couple of days, you know, 621 00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:03,680 Speaker 1: I would I spend a lot of time and racing 622 00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:07,880 Speaker 1: in Wisconsin or in Gary, Indiana, which it was Gary, 623 00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:09,800 Speaker 1: and Doianna looked a lot more when I was used to, 624 00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:13,640 Speaker 1: you know, And so that that that helped quite a bit. 625 00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:16,880 Speaker 1: So I know there's all that to talk about paying 626 00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:20,040 Speaker 1: players and everything else, and and I'm a capitalist, so 627 00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:22,560 Speaker 1: I think people should be able to get compensated for 628 00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:26,560 Speaker 1: their for their talents. But on a basic level. Doesn't 629 00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:29,320 Speaker 1: it seem like in a situation such as yours, that 630 00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:33,320 Speaker 1: part of the scholarship should include money, for instance, for 631 00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:35,880 Speaker 1: your parents to be able to travel to see you 632 00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:38,920 Speaker 1: play at Wisconsin. Uh. And when you look at how 633 00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:41,760 Speaker 1: much some of these programs are making, doesn't it seem 634 00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:44,920 Speaker 1: like to you for parents, grandma and grandpa, family members 635 00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:48,760 Speaker 1: like that, there should almost be a stipend portion of those. 636 00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:50,160 Speaker 1: I mean, wouldn't you like to be able to go 637 00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:52,480 Speaker 1: out to a recruit and say, hey, I understand that 638 00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:54,800 Speaker 1: you live in l A. For example, right you're in 639 00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:58,080 Speaker 1: getting Boulder, that that is not a huge trip, but 640 00:33:58,120 --> 00:33:59,720 Speaker 1: if you don't have very much money, that is a 641 00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:01,880 Speaker 1: huge strip. Right. So if you're recruiting against s C 642 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:04,200 Speaker 1: or U C. L A and there's a kid there 643 00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:05,840 Speaker 1: and he's like, man, I want my mom to be 644 00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:08,160 Speaker 1: able to watch me play every game, wouldn't that be 645 00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:10,879 Speaker 1: Doesn't that seem like it should be possibly out there 646 00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:13,440 Speaker 1: that you could get stipends for family members to be 647 00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:15,480 Speaker 1: able to come and see you play. When you look 648 00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:18,480 Speaker 1: at how much revenue these schools are bringing in, I 649 00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:20,040 Speaker 1: think that would you know, I think that would really 650 00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:23,520 Speaker 1: help you know? Um, uh, you know, I don't know 651 00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:26,000 Speaker 1: if that's possible, but you know, I always when I'm 652 00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:30,279 Speaker 1: recruiting players and I'm recruiting players from a distance, one 653 00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:32,319 Speaker 1: of the questions I asked is, you know, how long 654 00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:36,240 Speaker 1: have you been playing football? And and uh, who who 655 00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:39,560 Speaker 1: who has come to your games? You know, and oftentimes 656 00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:43,920 Speaker 1: a young man to tell me that, you know, my 657 00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:46,239 Speaker 1: my mom, my grandmother have never missed a game. I've 658 00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:47,719 Speaker 1: been playing since I was eight years old, and they've 659 00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:51,440 Speaker 1: been in every single game every time, you know, or 660 00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:54,360 Speaker 1: my dad has never missed a game, or you know, 661 00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:58,680 Speaker 1: I hear that and so um. And that's part of 662 00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:01,160 Speaker 1: the recruiting process, and that's one of the of the 663 00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:06,160 Speaker 1: challenges because sometimes I know that you know, those uh 664 00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:08,799 Speaker 1: that the parents with the grandma wherever was, you know, 665 00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:11,319 Speaker 1: they're not gonna they're not gonna be They're not gonna 666 00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:14,640 Speaker 1: be able to see your play every and they're not 667 00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:16,560 Speaker 1: gonna be able to see you playing person is not 668 00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:18,279 Speaker 1: just gonna be possible. So I have to deal with that. 669 00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:22,400 Speaker 1: When you are at Wisconsin, you mentioned that the first year, like, 670 00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:25,600 Speaker 1: in addition to the cultural challenges of being at Wisconsin, 671 00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:29,200 Speaker 1: football is a lot better and you suddenly maybe aren't 672 00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:33,000 Speaker 1: the best player on the field or even close to it. Uh, 673 00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:35,399 Speaker 1: when did you start to feel like, hey, I can 674 00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:39,680 Speaker 1: play here, And did not being the best player maybe 675 00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:42,960 Speaker 1: make you more aware of some of the intricacies of 676 00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:45,640 Speaker 1: the game that have helped you as a coach, Because 677 00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:49,200 Speaker 1: it seems to me that guys who are supremely talented 678 00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:52,960 Speaker 1: don't oftentimes make great coaches because they get so frustrated 679 00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:55,359 Speaker 1: because they can't make the players do what they were 680 00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:57,759 Speaker 1: able to do. Whereas the guys who have to be 681 00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:00,200 Speaker 1: on the margins, on the edges and kind of work 682 00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:03,239 Speaker 1: on the intricacies of the game sometimes are better at 683 00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:05,480 Speaker 1: teaching it. Do you think that in your own playing 684 00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:10,400 Speaker 1: experience has helped you? Yeah? It did. Um, you know, 685 00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:13,600 Speaker 1: I made my my my first I had a I 686 00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:17,360 Speaker 1: had an injury, played career at Wisconsin. It seemed like 687 00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:19,920 Speaker 1: I was it was I was always like banged up. 688 00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:22,000 Speaker 1: There was always something wrong with me. But I made 689 00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:27,480 Speaker 1: my first start, like as a sophomore against Ohio State 690 00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:30,399 Speaker 1: in Columbus, and I was out there with like Troy 691 00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:33,560 Speaker 1: Vincent who was one of my great friends. Um, and 692 00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:36,320 Speaker 1: so I knew now is the head of the NFL 693 00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:39,239 Speaker 1: P a writer or a VP of the NFL. P A. Yeah, 694 00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:43,640 Speaker 1: he's he's actually, you know, he was. He was doing 695 00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:45,440 Speaker 1: some things with the league and then he and he 696 00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:48,080 Speaker 1: was trying to when the the Morris Smith deal and 697 00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:49,960 Speaker 1: that was kind of going down. He was in the 698 00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:51,520 Speaker 1: running for that, and then he went to work for 699 00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:54,040 Speaker 1: the NFL and he was kind of doing some of 700 00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:56,319 Speaker 1: their player programs. He was the head of that, and 701 00:36:56,360 --> 00:37:00,720 Speaker 1: then he has recently been elevated and and he uh, 702 00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:04,279 Speaker 1: you know, right alongside Roger Goodell now and you know, 703 00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:06,719 Speaker 1: after the first day or so of the draft, he's 704 00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:09,279 Speaker 1: the guy that announces the name. Okay, my bad. Yeah, 705 00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:11,920 Speaker 1: he's on the NFL side. But he's very highly highly 706 00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:15,319 Speaker 1: ranked in the NFL. Yeah, very very highly ranked. And 707 00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:20,480 Speaker 1: uh so you know I knew, I knew I could play, um, 708 00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:23,640 Speaker 1: you know, but being you know, being a backup or 709 00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:25,919 Speaker 1: you know, a part time player of special teams guy, 710 00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:28,920 Speaker 1: you know, kind of a rotational guy. You know, you 711 00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:31,560 Speaker 1: don't always get reps with the ones, you know, so 712 00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:35,200 Speaker 1: you gotta you have to, uh you know, you have 713 00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:37,720 Speaker 1: to still know the game plan without getting the reps. 714 00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:39,600 Speaker 1: And then you know you have to kind of really 715 00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:42,359 Speaker 1: really pay attention. So you know, I had some really 716 00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:46,680 Speaker 1: good coaches, position coaches like Paul Jet and the the 717 00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:50,520 Speaker 1: late Tomic Man got rest the soul I had who 718 00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:53,200 Speaker 1: had really good coaches and they were really technical and 719 00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:55,719 Speaker 1: that I really I knew, like these guys really know 720 00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:58,200 Speaker 1: what they're doing. Um. Coach Al Riz was a great 721 00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:01,000 Speaker 1: defensive coach. I would watch those guys. I was always 722 00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:03,759 Speaker 1: a left wing on the punt team for Bill Callahanson. 723 00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:06,360 Speaker 1: He he became a mentor of mind and guy that 724 00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:09,360 Speaker 1: I loved. And so I had really good coaches at Wisconsin. 725 00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:12,400 Speaker 1: So I so I was able to uh to learn 726 00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:16,759 Speaker 1: like how to coach playing but playing for those guys 727 00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:22,120 Speaker 1: because they were like fundamentally sound, like great technical teachers. UM, 728 00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:25,920 Speaker 1: and I just really really paid attention. Um. I didn't 729 00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:28,200 Speaker 1: know that I wanted to be a coach, but UM 730 00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:30,799 Speaker 1: I learned. I learned a lot a lot from those guys. 731 00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:33,280 Speaker 1: And then you know you mentioned we mentioned I mentioned 732 00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:35,719 Speaker 1: Troy Vincent and what he's doing now. But it's amazing. 733 00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:38,640 Speaker 1: You know the guys who were on that team, you 734 00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:41,840 Speaker 1: know my teammates and friends of mine. Chris Ballert, the 735 00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:46,440 Speaker 1: GM for the coach was a teammate of mine there. 736 00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:49,920 Speaker 1: We've been great friends. Uh. Tyl Orlando is the defensive 737 00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:54,719 Speaker 1: coordinator at Texas. It was a teammate of mine at Wisconsin. 738 00:38:55,160 --> 00:39:00,320 Speaker 1: UM Darryl Bevil offensive coordinator from the offensive cordinator at 739 00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:03,800 Speaker 1: Seattle and UM great coach in the league. He was 740 00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:08,200 Speaker 1: our quarterback. UM. Joe Rudolph, I believe office the coordinator 741 00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:10,960 Speaker 1: at Wisconsin now. Was he and I you know, took 742 00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:13,959 Speaker 1: took recruiting trips together in high school, you know, because 743 00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:16,319 Speaker 1: he's from Pennsylvania. We go, we end up on some 744 00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:18,880 Speaker 1: of the same trips. You know. Dor Sharp was commissioner 745 00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:23,920 Speaker 1: to Swack. Um was was there. So it's amazing how 746 00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:27,960 Speaker 1: many guys on how many guys on that team, UM 747 00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:30,960 Speaker 1: are still in football now doing some doing some pretty 748 00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:35,000 Speaker 1: significant things. So when you become a g A at 749 00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:38,759 Speaker 1: Michigan State for uh for Nick Saban back in the day, 750 00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:42,319 Speaker 1: did you know immediately then coaching is for me? Or 751 00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:44,880 Speaker 1: was it just something that you did to test out? 752 00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:47,600 Speaker 1: How quickly did you know this is maybe the job 753 00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:50,279 Speaker 1: that I'm going to pursue. Yeah, I had kind of 754 00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:52,360 Speaker 1: been away from ball for you know, a couple of 755 00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:54,840 Speaker 1: years because I graduated in May nine, and this was 756 00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:57,480 Speaker 1: seven when I started. So what did you do? What 757 00:39:57,520 --> 00:39:59,279 Speaker 1: did you? What did you do from May ninety five 758 00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:03,160 Speaker 1: until you started this g A? I? UH. I volunteered 759 00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:08,880 Speaker 1: at my high school, UM coaching like basketball and and football. 760 00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:12,080 Speaker 1: You know, M just helping out, UH and then out 761 00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:16,080 Speaker 1: did some substitute teaching. UM. And so like a lot 762 00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:19,040 Speaker 1: of people who graduate from college, you're trying to figure 763 00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:20,759 Speaker 1: out what you want to do with your career. PAD 764 00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:23,000 Speaker 1: do you move back in with mom and dad? Yeah? 765 00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:25,080 Speaker 1: I moved back in and you know, and I was 766 00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:28,600 Speaker 1: actually still trying to play. Yeah, you know, because I 767 00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:31,680 Speaker 1: had signed with the Hamilton Tiger Cats, you know, come 768 00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:35,040 Speaker 1: out of Wisconsin and in the UH. In the transition 769 00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:39,520 Speaker 1: from Wisconsin to report in the training camp, I went 770 00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:43,000 Speaker 1: home for a couple of days and my youngest brother, Jordan, 771 00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:46,120 Speaker 1: had the chicken pox and I contracted it. I didn't 772 00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:48,520 Speaker 1: know that until I got there. So I got to 773 00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:51,840 Speaker 1: Hamilton's and I got really really sick, um and I 774 00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:54,719 Speaker 1: almost almost died from the parking. So I got they 775 00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:57,120 Speaker 1: sent me home. They said, you know, we gotta send 776 00:40:57,120 --> 00:40:58,680 Speaker 1: you home and then after you get well, we'll bring 777 00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:01,399 Speaker 1: you We'll bring you back. But by the time I 778 00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:03,360 Speaker 1: got over that that chicken pocket deal, I had a 779 00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:04,680 Speaker 1: you know, because I was a little bit older. I 780 00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:06,800 Speaker 1: think it's a little bit more severe when you're that's crazy. 781 00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:09,279 Speaker 1: So but you said you almost died. I mean I 782 00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:11,640 Speaker 1: went down to I mean I was a hundred and nineties. 783 00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:13,799 Speaker 1: I was two hundred pounds. Man, I think I went 784 00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:16,040 Speaker 1: down to maybe a hundred and sixty five pounds. So 785 00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:19,440 Speaker 1: did you have to get hospitalized from chicken pox? They 786 00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:22,400 Speaker 1: put me on some some type of mass and I 787 00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:26,239 Speaker 1: think I had an allergic reaction to it, and um, 788 00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:28,160 Speaker 1: you know, so I didn't you know, I didn't sleep 789 00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:32,760 Speaker 1: for maybe you know, three or four days. I couldn't eat, um, 790 00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:35,040 Speaker 1: you know, it was it just kind of kind of 791 00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:37,520 Speaker 1: wiped me out. And then, you know, I thought that 792 00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:40,239 Speaker 1: I was I thought I was something was I didn't 793 00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:42,400 Speaker 1: think I was gonna make it. And then and then 794 00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:44,920 Speaker 1: they changed my medication and I got better, but I 795 00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:46,480 Speaker 1: was kind of I felt like I was kind of 796 00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:49,440 Speaker 1: on the brink, you know. Um, And and so I 797 00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:52,440 Speaker 1: never really you know, so I wanted to try to, 798 00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:56,120 Speaker 1: you know, build myself back up and play again. And 799 00:41:56,120 --> 00:41:58,359 Speaker 1: and I had a couple of workouts, but I just 800 00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:01,399 Speaker 1: never could really get back to the point. I never 801 00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:03,080 Speaker 1: wanted to be one of those guys that was always 802 00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:05,520 Speaker 1: trying out and bouncing around and trying out, trying out. 803 00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:07,480 Speaker 1: So I just I just gave it up, and I 804 00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:09,680 Speaker 1: just I said, I just gotta figure I gotta figure 805 00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:11,680 Speaker 1: out what I'm gonna do. And so I kind of 806 00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:14,759 Speaker 1: went back to my high school and um, and you know, 807 00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:17,359 Speaker 1: I kind of volunteered coaching and then and I kind 808 00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:19,680 Speaker 1: of liked it, and um, and that's kind of how 809 00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:23,239 Speaker 1: I just when I decided I was gonna, I was gonna, um, 810 00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:26,200 Speaker 1: you know, try to the college the college ranks, and 811 00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:29,759 Speaker 1: I'm talked about we talked about the culture shock to Wisconsin. 812 00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:34,480 Speaker 1: What's the culture shocked like? Going to l s U 813 00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:38,279 Speaker 1: l s U uh l SU was like I got 814 00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:40,080 Speaker 1: down there, I'm like, man, do I need a passport 815 00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:44,040 Speaker 1: to be here or what it is? Yeah? It was 816 00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:46,799 Speaker 1: so much different, you know, and uh, it was like 817 00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:50,520 Speaker 1: almost being like in a different country. But I absolutely 818 00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:54,200 Speaker 1: loved it. Um. I gave the food is I gained 819 00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:56,360 Speaker 1: fifteen pounds down there and I haven't been able to 820 00:42:56,400 --> 00:43:01,520 Speaker 1: lose that that last I mean, just just a culture 821 00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:06,080 Speaker 1: of the food and uh, and the football was kind 822 00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:07,560 Speaker 1: of what I was used to. You know, they were 823 00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:11,600 Speaker 1: just it. It was just a really intense um. But 824 00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:15,320 Speaker 1: it was it's a different field down there. It's, uh, 825 00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:17,920 Speaker 1: they want to win so bad. It's almost feels like 826 00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:21,440 Speaker 1: it's almost kind of dangerous down there. You know. Um. 827 00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:24,240 Speaker 1: I remember coming out of my out of my office 828 00:43:24,239 --> 00:43:26,440 Speaker 1: like after work on Thursday, and they will already be 829 00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:30,879 Speaker 1: tailgating out in the park lot on Thursday. And people 830 00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:32,600 Speaker 1: would just come up to you right away. Like when 831 00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:34,480 Speaker 1: I first got there, they sayd hey, male, nice to 832 00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:35,920 Speaker 1: meet you. You You guys know, if you don't win, you're 833 00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:38,840 Speaker 1: out of here. I mean that was this common, you know, 834 00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:42,239 Speaker 1: that's just how it was. And and so I mean, 835 00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:45,560 Speaker 1: you know Tiger Stadium on a Saturday night, bro let 836 00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:48,960 Speaker 1: me tell you it's something else. So, UM, I liked 837 00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:51,000 Speaker 1: that with the Mardy grad what went down there on 838 00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:54,520 Speaker 1: Fat Tuesday. And I took that all in. Um, but 839 00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:58,080 Speaker 1: it was it was quite an experience. So you've coached 840 00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:01,520 Speaker 1: in the NFL and in college, and you've been ahead 841 00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:04,240 Speaker 1: coach as an interim in the NFL and in college. 842 00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:07,719 Speaker 1: Which do you like more? And why I like them? 843 00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:13,480 Speaker 1: Both um, UM for different reasons. UM. You know the NFL. 844 00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:15,239 Speaker 1: I went to the NFL because I was trying to 845 00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:18,799 Speaker 1: follow coach Savans kind of his career path. You know, 846 00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:20,760 Speaker 1: he was a college coach. He went to the NFL. 847 00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:24,719 Speaker 1: UM and he told me, you know early on that 848 00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:28,120 Speaker 1: you're gonna have to go to the NFL, UM at 849 00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:30,719 Speaker 1: some point, you know, to really you know, learn ball 850 00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:32,959 Speaker 1: some more of ball and becoming a better coach. And 851 00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:35,040 Speaker 1: so that's why I went. I went to Cleveland Browns 852 00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:37,919 Speaker 1: and I wanted to learn the Bill Belichick three four 853 00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:41,720 Speaker 1: from Romeo Cornell. I did that, and I really love coaching. 854 00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:44,960 Speaker 1: Coaching in the NFL. It was like, uh, it was 855 00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:47,040 Speaker 1: like getting a pH d. All you do twenty four 856 00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:50,040 Speaker 1: hours a day. It's all it's just all ball, um 857 00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:55,000 Speaker 1: and just coaching, you know, coaching the pro pro players. UM. 858 00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:56,879 Speaker 1: You know, guys are making you know a lot more 859 00:44:56,880 --> 00:45:00,279 Speaker 1: money than you and uh. And so that was that 860 00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:02,200 Speaker 1: was a challenge and I really loved it and I 861 00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:07,560 Speaker 1: became you know, I felt like I was successful doing that. UM. 862 00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:09,879 Speaker 1: But there's a you know, coaching college is a little 863 00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:11,960 Speaker 1: a little bit different. UM. You know, you you know 864 00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:14,320 Speaker 1: these guys you know, like some of these guys I 865 00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:17,160 Speaker 1: recruited when they were sophomores freshman in high school, like 866 00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:20,520 Speaker 1: ted Again Jr. You know, I've known Teddy since he 867 00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:24,520 Speaker 1: was like eleven years old. Uh. You know Dante Wtner, 868 00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:27,640 Speaker 1: Troy Smith, you know Heisman Trophy guys. I mean I 869 00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:29,680 Speaker 1: recruited Troy when he was at saying As before he 870 00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:32,560 Speaker 1: transferred to Glenville, before we got about Ohio States. So 871 00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:35,360 Speaker 1: you just have those connections with the high school coaches 872 00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:38,560 Speaker 1: and the families and the and the and the kids. Um, 873 00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:42,400 Speaker 1: and then you bring them to to UM to college 874 00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:45,840 Speaker 1: and you're responsible for him. You're almost like you're almost 875 00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:49,000 Speaker 1: like a kind of like a parent away from home. UM, 876 00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:53,279 Speaker 1: and your your role model and they need you um 877 00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:56,400 Speaker 1: and so UM that's like a huge responsibility. But I 878 00:45:56,440 --> 00:46:01,040 Speaker 1: really enjoyed that part of it. And uh in seeing 879 00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:04,160 Speaker 1: you know, helping helping guys uh like work towards a 880 00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:07,799 Speaker 1: degree and develop them on the field. UM, was very 881 00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:10,520 Speaker 1: very gratified to me. And that's why I decided to 882 00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:13,080 Speaker 1: come back to the Coste game in two thousand and 883 00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:16,799 Speaker 1: fifteen at Alabama coach Saban. So you've coached with coach 884 00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:19,719 Speaker 1: Saban How are coach Saban and Kirby Smart, who you've 885 00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:22,319 Speaker 1: also coached with, different Because there's a lot of people 886 00:46:22,320 --> 00:46:25,799 Speaker 1: who say, Okay, Kirby Smarts doing at Georgia what Nick 887 00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:29,719 Speaker 1: Saban did at Alabama recruiting at a high level defensive 888 00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:32,560 Speaker 1: first guy, you've worked with both of them. How are 889 00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:36,719 Speaker 1: they similar? How are they different? Um? You know the 890 00:46:36,719 --> 00:46:39,640 Speaker 1: the and I think a lot of you know, if 891 00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:42,319 Speaker 1: me work for Nick, you know that long. Um, I 892 00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:44,520 Speaker 1: worked for them three times. You know, there's you know, 893 00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:47,840 Speaker 1: other guys that have been trying to saving guys or 894 00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:51,480 Speaker 1: Belichick guys. You know, you kind of use this very 895 00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:55,320 Speaker 1: similar blueprint because you know it, you know it worked 896 00:46:55,520 --> 00:46:59,080 Speaker 1: successful and so um in those in that way you 897 00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:02,520 Speaker 1: know at Orgia, UM, you know we had a very 898 00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:09,960 Speaker 1: similar blueprint for success, very similar process. Um. But they're 899 00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:14,120 Speaker 1: they're they're totally different people, you know. UM and uh, 900 00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:17,480 Speaker 1: they're both you know, great coaches, very intense, but UM, 901 00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:20,840 Speaker 1: you know everyone is, you know, everyone's just so different. 902 00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:25,080 Speaker 1: Everyone's got their own style of coaching, you know. UM, 903 00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:27,719 Speaker 1: and I think Kirby does a great job of like 904 00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:31,440 Speaker 1: just not trying to be Nick and just being himself. UM. 905 00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:33,120 Speaker 1: And that's you know, that's what I try to do. 906 00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:36,239 Speaker 1: You know, I'm not trying to be anyone else. Um 907 00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:40,479 Speaker 1: And uh, you know Nick Saban is uh you really 908 00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:45,200 Speaker 1: can't even compare him to anyone that everyone's just so unique. UM. 909 00:47:45,239 --> 00:47:47,759 Speaker 1: I've known Nick. I've known Coach Saban just so long, 910 00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:51,000 Speaker 1: Like like sometimes I feel like he would he could 911 00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:52,880 Speaker 1: start a sentence and I can finish it, you know. 912 00:47:53,040 --> 00:47:57,279 Speaker 1: So um. But you know it's very similar structure, you 913 00:47:57,280 --> 00:48:03,799 Speaker 1: know in the programs um a totally different personalities. What's 914 00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:06,360 Speaker 1: the happiest you've ever been on a football field as 915 00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:14,440 Speaker 1: a coach or player? Um Man, that's a good question. 916 00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:19,160 Speaker 1: You know, this may this may sound distan generous, but 917 00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:24,080 Speaker 1: you know I told my I told my players after this, 918 00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:27,719 Speaker 1: after the Stanford game that we just had that we 919 00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:30,239 Speaker 1: won like sixteen thirteen. You know, it was a walk 920 00:48:30,239 --> 00:48:33,200 Speaker 1: off field goal. That we had lost five games in 921 00:48:33,239 --> 00:48:36,040 Speaker 1: a row, you know, and uh, we had some gut 922 00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:39,680 Speaker 1: riching losses. And you know, I told those I told 923 00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:41,200 Speaker 1: those guys, I say, guys, I told him in the 924 00:48:41,239 --> 00:48:42,880 Speaker 1: locker room after the game, I said, guys, I've been 925 00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:46,080 Speaker 1: in That was my three hundred football games of coaching 926 00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:48,560 Speaker 1: as an assistant coach or head coach. And I have 927 00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:51,839 Speaker 1: coached three games. I've got two national championships. I've been 928 00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:53,200 Speaker 1: in a lot of big games one a lot of 929 00:48:53,239 --> 00:48:55,640 Speaker 1: big games. But I told those guys and I've really 930 00:48:55,640 --> 00:48:59,040 Speaker 1: meant that. I've never been prouder of a group of 931 00:48:59,040 --> 00:49:02,480 Speaker 1: guys players and come as I was this past Saturday. 932 00:49:02,560 --> 00:49:05,400 Speaker 1: And I think it's because you know I am, you know, 933 00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:08,640 Speaker 1: because I am in the head coach here and I, 934 00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:13,680 Speaker 1: um it is the first year, and it was you know, 935 00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:17,160 Speaker 1: we've had some challenges, you know, shifting the culture here. 936 00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:21,480 Speaker 1: Um learning, you know learning, Um, you know how to win, 937 00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:25,880 Speaker 1: and um, we beat a team. Uh, Stanford team is 938 00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:27,400 Speaker 1: very well coached and I got a lot of I 939 00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:30,839 Speaker 1: have a tremendous small respect for David Shaw. But um, 940 00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:35,080 Speaker 1: you know we we won playing compminary football, offense, defensive, 941 00:49:35,120 --> 00:49:37,960 Speaker 1: special teams, you know, all working together. Guys were playing 942 00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:42,160 Speaker 1: for each other and we we It was a physical 943 00:49:42,200 --> 00:49:45,759 Speaker 1: football game. Um, Stamford is known for being physical and 944 00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:49,319 Speaker 1: fundamentally sound. We only have five penalties. We were able 945 00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:51,960 Speaker 1: to run the ball, we stopped, we stopped to run 946 00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:55,640 Speaker 1: special teams. We won the field position battle. Um, you 947 00:49:55,680 --> 00:49:58,160 Speaker 1: know we at the end of the game, our offense 948 00:49:58,280 --> 00:50:02,120 Speaker 1: we had our last two drives were over six minutes each. 949 00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:05,040 Speaker 1: We got some kids. That was the best defensive game 950 00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:08,080 Speaker 1: we played all season. Hold them in the thirteen points. Um. 951 00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:10,239 Speaker 1: You know, we're playing a lot of young players, and 952 00:50:10,320 --> 00:50:12,799 Speaker 1: we were able to take the clock down, called time 953 00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:17,040 Speaker 1: out with two seconds running. Uh. The field goal team 954 00:50:17,080 --> 00:50:20,799 Speaker 1: out there. We had a freshman kicker, uh, and he 955 00:50:20,920 --> 00:50:23,920 Speaker 1: was our backup. Our starter was was down and he 956 00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:26,560 Speaker 1: goes in there and knocks it straight through at home 957 00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:29,600 Speaker 1: on homecoming, you know, after losing five straight games. So 958 00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:32,839 Speaker 1: I can honestly said that was probably the most gratifying 959 00:50:32,920 --> 00:50:36,880 Speaker 1: moment of my coaching career. Alright, what about as the 960 00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:44,120 Speaker 1: most disappointing moment. What's the toughest loss, the toughest loss? Uh? 961 00:50:44,640 --> 00:50:49,120 Speaker 1: Uh even though that uh that Georgia Alabama a couple 962 00:50:49,160 --> 00:50:50,960 Speaker 1: of years ago, the NAST championship game, and that was 963 00:50:51,160 --> 00:50:54,920 Speaker 1: that was devastating because we I felt like we had them. Um, 964 00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:56,839 Speaker 1: that was tough. And even last year in the SEC 965 00:50:56,960 --> 00:51:01,319 Speaker 1: Championship game was brutal. Um. But the toughest loss was 966 00:51:02,120 --> 00:51:04,520 Speaker 1: two thousand two. We go fourteen and oh and we 967 00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:06,440 Speaker 1: we win the national championship. We beat Miami and the 968 00:51:06,520 --> 00:51:10,560 Speaker 1: Fiesta Bow. The very next year, um, very next year, 969 00:51:10,600 --> 00:51:16,400 Speaker 1: we're we're rolling. Um. We go to Wisconsin and uh, 970 00:51:16,560 --> 00:51:21,239 Speaker 1: I'm I'm coaching the secondary. Um and uh we uh 971 00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:23,919 Speaker 1: we come back. We got him beat. It's in the rain. 972 00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:28,319 Speaker 1: We're undefeated. They get to we knocked the quarterback out. 973 00:51:28,360 --> 00:51:31,720 Speaker 1: The backup quarterback goes in Brian White office. The coordinator 974 00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:35,040 Speaker 1: calls an out and up uh and Chris Gamble in 975 00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:36,920 Speaker 1: my first round corner gets beat on an out and 976 00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:40,279 Speaker 1: up for a touchdown. Game over and no more national 977 00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:43,960 Speaker 1: championship consideration at that point. And you know, when you 978 00:51:43,960 --> 00:51:45,960 Speaker 1: win one, you go fortunately, you always think you're gonna 979 00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:49,239 Speaker 1: win another one, you know. And I didn't get another 980 00:51:49,239 --> 00:51:53,640 Speaker 1: one till two thousand fifteen. And so I remember the 981 00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:59,080 Speaker 1: Andy Geiger, the athletic director, coming over to my locker. UM, 982 00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:02,440 Speaker 1: I remember those guys saying, you know, just saying like, hey, man, 983 00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:07,040 Speaker 1: just get dressed, just h just uh, you know, let's go, 984 00:52:07,120 --> 00:52:09,680 Speaker 1: let's get out of here. And because I felt like 985 00:52:09,719 --> 00:52:11,360 Speaker 1: I was a coach, I felt like I lost that 986 00:52:11,480 --> 00:52:15,600 Speaker 1: game because I felt like I didn't have my my player, 987 00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:18,600 Speaker 1: Chris Gamble, who's a great player. First one, I think 988 00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:21,359 Speaker 1: I feel like I didn't have him prepared for for 989 00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:26,160 Speaker 1: the double moves. That's interesting. Uh. Now you're at Colorado, 990 00:52:26,239 --> 00:52:28,000 Speaker 1: and I know you've got a lot of interesting fans 991 00:52:28,040 --> 00:52:30,800 Speaker 1: out of Colorado. I'm a big fan of South Park. 992 00:52:31,080 --> 00:52:34,200 Speaker 1: And I understand that you've met Matt Stone and Trey Parker, 993 00:52:34,239 --> 00:52:37,480 Speaker 1: who are South Park guys but also Boulder guys right 994 00:52:37,520 --> 00:52:42,879 Speaker 1: there from Colorado. Yeah, I haven't. I haven't met them, um, 995 00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:45,960 Speaker 1: you know, but we've been in conversation with them, Dave 996 00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:49,440 Speaker 1: Platty here and others trying to uh, trying to arrange 997 00:52:49,440 --> 00:52:53,120 Speaker 1: for them when they get a little less busy to 998 00:52:53,239 --> 00:52:55,759 Speaker 1: come onto my podcast. Oh that would be pretty cool, 999 00:52:56,520 --> 00:53:00,279 Speaker 1: and so I'm looking forward to doing that. Um and uh, 1000 00:53:00,320 --> 00:53:04,120 Speaker 1: And I didn't know that that the South parky. I 1001 00:53:04,120 --> 00:53:05,759 Speaker 1: didn't know they would see you guys. I didn't know 1002 00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:08,160 Speaker 1: they were voter guys. You know, I didn't know. I 1003 00:53:08,160 --> 00:53:12,320 Speaker 1: didn't know the origination. So when I got here and uh, 1004 00:53:12,640 --> 00:53:14,840 Speaker 1: you know, they started talking about soft Park, like really, 1005 00:53:15,600 --> 00:53:17,680 Speaker 1: these got to see you guys. We we gotta get 1006 00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:19,560 Speaker 1: I gotta get with these guys, you know what I mean. 1007 00:53:20,040 --> 00:53:22,680 Speaker 1: So I'm really looking forward to that. Uh. And the 1008 00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:25,640 Speaker 1: last couple of questions for you here, Um, what do 1009 00:53:25,719 --> 00:53:28,439 Speaker 1: you do when you're not coaching football? I know you 1010 00:53:28,440 --> 00:53:30,400 Speaker 1: you said you slept four hours a day when you 1011 00:53:30,440 --> 00:53:32,239 Speaker 1: were working as a g A, so I know those 1012 00:53:32,239 --> 00:53:34,760 Speaker 1: hours all factor in. But you got two young sons, 1013 00:53:35,120 --> 00:53:37,520 Speaker 1: teenage boys, and I didn't even ask you, but when 1014 00:53:37,520 --> 00:53:39,680 Speaker 1: did you meet your wife? And how has she balanced 1015 00:53:39,680 --> 00:53:43,680 Speaker 1: out the coach's wife lifestyle? Yeah? I met my wife 1016 00:53:43,680 --> 00:53:46,080 Speaker 1: in Cleveland on a blind date. Um. She was in 1017 00:53:46,160 --> 00:53:48,920 Speaker 1: law school a Rutgers at the time. Um, and this 1018 00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:52,719 Speaker 1: was before I got into coaching. And who set up 1019 00:53:52,719 --> 00:53:58,160 Speaker 1: the blind date? Uh? My my my roommates. Uh, Shock's 1020 00:53:58,440 --> 00:54:03,440 Speaker 1: ex girlfriend who was was her roommate at at Rutgers, 1021 00:54:03,440 --> 00:54:05,319 Speaker 1: also in law school, set it up. They were coming 1022 00:54:05,360 --> 00:54:09,000 Speaker 1: to Cleveland, uh for a job fair. And so you 1023 00:54:09,040 --> 00:54:11,719 Speaker 1: guys go where for dinner or for a date or 1024 00:54:11,760 --> 00:54:14,399 Speaker 1: what did you do? And we went down like down 1025 00:54:14,440 --> 00:54:17,000 Speaker 1: in the flats down there to like I think it's 1026 00:54:17,040 --> 00:54:19,960 Speaker 1: called like the firehouse where they play pool and do 1027 00:54:19,960 --> 00:54:22,360 Speaker 1: all that stuff. So so did you think immediately like 1028 00:54:22,440 --> 00:54:27,319 Speaker 1: this could be the one? Or did how did that happen? Yeah? 1029 00:54:28,440 --> 00:54:30,640 Speaker 1: It kind of happened like that. It was kind of like, uh, 1030 00:54:31,600 --> 00:54:34,000 Speaker 1: you know, like uh, I kind of asked her to 1031 00:54:34,040 --> 00:54:37,320 Speaker 1: marry me on the uh that that that night? Yeah, 1032 00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:41,040 Speaker 1: the first date. Yeah, no, no, no way. So you 1033 00:54:41,080 --> 00:54:43,240 Speaker 1: go out to and you're like this is it and 1034 00:54:43,239 --> 00:54:45,480 Speaker 1: and like jokingly you said marry me or you were like, 1035 00:54:45,520 --> 00:54:48,880 Speaker 1: I'm convinced this is the one. Yeah, I wasn't. I 1036 00:54:48,920 --> 00:54:51,920 Speaker 1: wasn't joking. I'm kind of one of those guys that 1037 00:54:52,040 --> 00:54:54,080 Speaker 1: you know, I don't I don't like the wait around. 1038 00:54:54,080 --> 00:54:56,320 Speaker 1: I kind of once I kind of see the direction 1039 00:54:56,360 --> 00:54:57,920 Speaker 1: I need to go. I'm trying to get there as 1040 00:54:57,920 --> 00:55:01,959 Speaker 1: fast as I can. So what did she say say? Yeah, 1041 00:55:02,120 --> 00:55:06,440 Speaker 1: she was like, yeah, let's go. How did you get 1042 00:55:08,280 --> 00:55:10,600 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, go ahead. So how soon did you get married? 1043 00:55:10,800 --> 00:55:13,400 Speaker 1: Like after you started dating? Yeah, after I got my 1044 00:55:13,400 --> 00:55:15,759 Speaker 1: first full time job at Miami of Ohio with the 1045 00:55:15,840 --> 00:55:18,560 Speaker 1: late Terry Haffner. That the summer before that season. We 1046 00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:23,879 Speaker 1: got married in Chicago. She's from Chicago, and you've been dating? 1047 00:55:23,880 --> 00:55:26,680 Speaker 1: How long we have been? Well, we have been dating? 1048 00:55:26,719 --> 00:55:31,319 Speaker 1: That was that was That was when I got that job. 1049 00:55:31,360 --> 00:55:34,880 Speaker 1: I think I met her in like nineties six maybe, 1050 00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:37,919 Speaker 1: so we kind of like a long distance deal. Yeah, 1051 00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:41,960 Speaker 1: but so you are at the time dating a potential lawyer. Right, 1052 00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:44,799 Speaker 1: She's going to Rutgers and you are a guy trying 1053 00:55:44,840 --> 00:55:46,960 Speaker 1: to work your way up. So at that time, like 1054 00:55:47,080 --> 00:55:50,920 Speaker 1: you're kind of outkicking your coverage getting a lawyer that 1055 00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:52,880 Speaker 1: you're married because you're you know, just kind of becoming 1056 00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:56,640 Speaker 1: a coach. Now she is married to one of you know, 1057 00:55:56,760 --> 00:55:58,960 Speaker 1: one of the big five coaches in a in a 1058 00:55:59,000 --> 00:56:02,200 Speaker 1: major conference. So does she like look over your contract 1059 00:56:02,280 --> 00:56:06,880 Speaker 1: stuff as the lawyer? Do you have her review? Uh? No, 1060 00:56:07,080 --> 00:56:11,359 Speaker 1: she doesn't represent me. Um uh, maybe some of those 1061 00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:15,799 Speaker 1: initial contracts. Uh yeah, back in the Yeah, she looked 1062 00:56:15,800 --> 00:56:18,719 Speaker 1: over those. But I've I've actually got some some funk 1063 00:56:18,840 --> 00:56:21,799 Speaker 1: to do that for me. Now. It's funny. I have 1064 00:56:21,920 --> 00:56:24,120 Speaker 1: my wife do stuff for me, and she's quit like 1065 00:56:24,160 --> 00:56:26,520 Speaker 1: three different times because she says I'm an awful boss. 1066 00:56:26,560 --> 00:56:29,280 Speaker 1: So it's probably good to to have other people instead 1067 00:56:29,280 --> 00:56:32,040 Speaker 1: of instead of her in charge. Okay, So last question 1068 00:56:32,080 --> 00:56:35,360 Speaker 1: for you. You You almost ended up at air Force, you 1069 00:56:35,400 --> 00:56:38,160 Speaker 1: instead go to Wisconsin. You work your way all the 1070 00:56:38,160 --> 00:56:41,839 Speaker 1: way to become the head coach at Colorado. Do you 1071 00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:44,520 Speaker 1: feel like, in some way you finally got to the 1072 00:56:44,560 --> 00:56:47,040 Speaker 1: state of Colorado where you almost went when you were 1073 00:56:47,080 --> 00:56:50,439 Speaker 1: eighteen years old kid coming out of high school. And 1074 00:56:50,520 --> 00:56:55,160 Speaker 1: if so, how successful can you be at Colorado? How 1075 00:56:55,239 --> 00:56:59,400 Speaker 1: high can you rise? No, Uh, that's a that's interesting 1076 00:56:59,440 --> 00:57:02,719 Speaker 1: that you should bring that up, because um once, I 1077 00:57:02,760 --> 00:57:06,040 Speaker 1: always remember the mountains um from that Air Force trip, 1078 00:57:06,719 --> 00:57:08,879 Speaker 1: and I would um since then, you know, we would 1079 00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:13,880 Speaker 1: go vacation uh in like Tahoe. I just loved I 1080 00:57:13,920 --> 00:57:17,600 Speaker 1: love that that whole scene. You know. So when this 1081 00:57:17,880 --> 00:57:22,400 Speaker 1: wisconsinant opportunity came up, you know, that was that was 1082 00:57:22,480 --> 00:57:24,880 Speaker 1: part of my thinking that I would have an opportunity 1083 00:57:24,960 --> 00:57:28,880 Speaker 1: to to be um, you know right there, you know, 1084 00:57:29,000 --> 00:57:32,720 Speaker 1: in the mountains. And because I it was just uh 1085 00:57:32,840 --> 00:57:36,400 Speaker 1: the error. Um, I felt a lot different than Cleveland. 1086 00:57:36,840 --> 00:57:39,920 Speaker 1: You know, it was really clean, it was really sunny. 1087 00:57:40,280 --> 00:57:42,320 Speaker 1: It was just a whole different different vibe for me. 1088 00:57:43,080 --> 00:57:46,000 Speaker 1: It was like, uh, it was very kind of like 1089 00:57:46,160 --> 00:57:49,520 Speaker 1: motivating and energizing to me as a as a person. 1090 00:57:50,120 --> 00:57:53,560 Speaker 1: And so I've been kind of drawn to that ever 1091 00:57:53,680 --> 00:57:57,080 Speaker 1: since then. So I definitely felt like I was finally 1092 00:57:57,800 --> 00:58:01,120 Speaker 1: going to um, you know, be in that environment that 1093 00:58:01,240 --> 00:58:03,960 Speaker 1: appealed to me, you know, as a as a teenager, 1094 00:58:04,040 --> 00:58:08,520 Speaker 1: you know, as a seventeen eight year old, and so, um, 1095 00:58:08,760 --> 00:58:11,080 Speaker 1: how successful can we be here? You know, I don't 1096 00:58:11,080 --> 00:58:14,480 Speaker 1: believe in self imposed limitations. Um. I've never been in 1097 00:58:14,480 --> 00:58:17,240 Speaker 1: a I've never coached in a football game or been 1098 00:58:17,360 --> 00:58:20,360 Speaker 1: any place including miamiable how where we weren't expected to 1099 00:58:20,360 --> 00:58:24,920 Speaker 1: win every single game every time? And so um, my 1100 00:58:24,920 --> 00:58:27,080 Speaker 1: my goal and our goal here is to win a 1101 00:58:27,160 --> 00:58:31,600 Speaker 1: national championship and be in that national championship conversation uh, 1102 00:58:31,840 --> 00:58:35,000 Speaker 1: year in the year in and year out. And we're 1103 00:58:35,000 --> 00:58:37,960 Speaker 1: going to do that through shifting the culture here and 1104 00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:42,400 Speaker 1: through recruiting, and we are relentless recruiters, rerecruiting every single day. 1105 00:58:42,640 --> 00:58:46,240 Speaker 1: Recruiting's going well here. Um. I anticipate us being able 1106 00:58:46,240 --> 00:58:48,920 Speaker 1: to win a national championship here and be one of 1107 00:58:48,920 --> 00:58:52,080 Speaker 1: the premier programs in America. If I didn't think we 1108 00:58:52,120 --> 00:58:53,920 Speaker 1: could do that here, I would not I would not 1109 00:58:54,000 --> 00:58:57,480 Speaker 1: be here. Coach, Good luck to you. I appreciate all 1110 00:58:57,520 --> 00:59:00,840 Speaker 1: the time. Uh, and I I think people are really 1111 00:59:00,840 --> 00:59:02,520 Speaker 1: going to enjoy this. If you like it, want to 1112 00:59:02,640 --> 00:59:06,440 Speaker 1: feed give feedback to Coach Tucker. He's at coach Underscore 1113 00:59:06,760 --> 00:59:09,920 Speaker 1: m Tucker on Twitter. You can track him down there 1114 00:59:09,960 --> 00:59:12,960 Speaker 1: again at Coach Underscore m Tucker. I'll tweet it out 1115 00:59:12,960 --> 00:59:16,120 Speaker 1: as well. Appreciate the time, my man, good luck. Yeah, 1116 00:59:16,160 --> 00:59:17,680 Speaker 1: thank you so much. Thanks for having me on. I 1117 00:59:17,760 --> 00:59:21,080 Speaker 1: appreciate it. That is melt Tucker. He is the head 1118 00:59:21,080 --> 00:59:24,800 Speaker 1: coach of Colorado Football and this has been the Wins 1119 00:59:24,880 --> 00:59:27,120 Speaker 1: and Losses Podcast with Clay Travis