1
00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:04,600
Speaker 1: Hey, lady, is doctor dim here. If you like this

2
00:00:04,720 --> 00:00:07,240
Speaker 1: show and you want to make your own, let me

3
00:00:07,280 --> 00:00:10,840
Speaker 1: tell you about the free platform Anchor. It's a creation

4
00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:13,800
Speaker 1: tool that allows you to record and edit your podcast

5
00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:17,280
Speaker 1: right from your phone or computer. You can add songs

6
00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:21,000
Speaker 1: from Spotify and create any type of content that you

7
00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:24,360
Speaker 1: are looking for. Anchor will distribute it all for you

8
00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:28,440
Speaker 1: so it can be heard on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and more.

9
00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:32,040
Speaker 1: Download the free Anchor app or go to anchor dot

10
00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:33,800
Speaker 1: fm to get started.

11
00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:36,000
Speaker 2: On this week's episode in her Space.

12
00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:43,320
Speaker 3: By nature of our degrees and our profession, logically we

13
00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:48,320
Speaker 3: know how to do it right. So I can talk

14
00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:52,199
Speaker 3: a good game. Because I know how to do it.

15
00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:57,120
Speaker 3: I can say to other people in this situation, this

16
00:00:57,200 --> 00:00:59,040
Speaker 3: is what I would do, and this is what you design.

17
00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:00,760
Speaker 3: You need to handle this girl, Let's get this.

18
00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:01,800
Speaker 4: You know.

19
00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:07,160
Speaker 3: I can use the language, have the tone, but sometimes

20
00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:10,240
Speaker 3: for me, in those small moments, I don't.

21
00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:11,119
Speaker 4: Show up for myself.

22
00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:17,240
Speaker 3: Welcome to her Space, a podcast dedicated to uplifting women

23
00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:22,520
Speaker 3: like you. We're your hosts doctor Dominique Broussard, a college

24
00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:24,920
Speaker 3: professor and psychologist.

25
00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:29,000
Speaker 2: And Terry Lomax, a techie and motivational speaker in a

26
00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:33,640
Speaker 2: world where Black women are often misrepresented and misunderstood. Please

27
00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:38,400
Speaker 2: join us as we initiate authentic conversations on everything from

28
00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:41,920
Speaker 2: fibroids to fake friends and create a safe space where

29
00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:43,800
Speaker 2: black women can just be.

30
00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:57,800
Speaker 3: Our quote of the day comes from Serena Williams. I

31
00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:00,440
Speaker 3: think of the next girl who is going to come alone,

32
00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:05,760
Speaker 3: who looks like me, and I hope, maybe, just maybe

33
00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:07,200
Speaker 3: my voice.

34
00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:07,560
Speaker 4: Will help her.

35
00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:13,480
Speaker 3: Let that sit for a moment, because our topic for

36
00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:18,960
Speaker 3: today is about assertiveness, So let that sink in for

37
00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:24,800
Speaker 3: a moment. I think of the next girl who is

38
00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:31,360
Speaker 3: going to come along, who looks like me, and I hope, maybe,

39
00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:36,600
Speaker 3: just maybe my voice will help her. All right, t

40
00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:38,920
Speaker 3: you ready to dive into talking about assertiveness.

41
00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:41,240
Speaker 2: Let's do it. Let's do it. So when I think

42
00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:44,840
Speaker 2: about assertiveness, it makes me think about what I was

43
00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:48,919
Speaker 2: taught about assertiveness growing up in my voice and for

44
00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:53,400
Speaker 2: me personally, I I feel like I talk about this

45
00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:55,799
Speaker 2: all the time, but I think it's so a childhood

46
00:02:55,960 --> 00:02:58,639
Speaker 2: I'm learning as an adult. Childhood really does shape who

47
00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:01,360
Speaker 2: you become as an adult. And I realized now that

48
00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:04,680
Speaker 2: you know, growing up and being abused and being taught

49
00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:08,120
Speaker 2: that my voice doesn't matter. That has presented so many

50
00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:10,959
Speaker 2: challenges for me as an adult, as a black woman, right,

51
00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:15,000
Speaker 2: And so I am constantly finding that I am unlearning

52
00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:18,520
Speaker 2: and relearning the ways in which I should be showing

53
00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:21,840
Speaker 2: up in the world to hold space for myself and

54
00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:25,600
Speaker 2: my voice and state how I feel and adapt to

55
00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:27,800
Speaker 2: the feelings of others around me because that's what I

56
00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:30,320
Speaker 2: was accustomed to. And so when I think of assertiveness,

57
00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:33,240
Speaker 2: I don't I don't know. I feel like I'm torn.

58
00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:36,280
Speaker 2: And there were moments where I remember my voice didn't matter,

59
00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:38,560
Speaker 2: But then there were other moments where I was empowered

60
00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:41,080
Speaker 2: to use my voice. And I know when I was younger,

61
00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:44,280
Speaker 2: when it came to my body and when it came

62
00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:48,440
Speaker 2: to me being uncomfortable, my mom taught me to like

63
00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:50,920
Speaker 2: speak up in those situations, right, so to tell her

64
00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:53,560
Speaker 2: if someone you know touched me or made me feelun comfortable.

65
00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:55,320
Speaker 2: So I do remember that, But at the same time,

66
00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:58,920
Speaker 2: I got mixed messages because on another hand, in certain instances,

67
00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:01,520
Speaker 2: my voice didn't better. And so as an adult, I

68
00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:03,480
Speaker 2: was kind of torn between these two and I feel

69
00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:08,080
Speaker 2: like I gravitated toward my voice doesn't matter. I won't

70
00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:10,320
Speaker 2: speak up. I'll just take it. I'll just be quiet.

71
00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:12,640
Speaker 2: I don't want to, you know, ruffle feathers. I don't

72
00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:16,479
Speaker 2: want to offend anyone. And so even today, I'm still

73
00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:19,799
Speaker 2: learning and encouraging myself to speak up when I feel something,

74
00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:24,560
Speaker 2: and my method at my comfort level is to do

75
00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:26,920
Speaker 2: so in a peaceful way, unless I got to turn

76
00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:29,520
Speaker 2: up on somebody is there, you know, sometimes people make

77
00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:31,080
Speaker 2: you turn up. You got to turn up, But I

78
00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:34,520
Speaker 2: typically try to remain tactful, professional and do it in

79
00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:37,440
Speaker 2: that way. So yeah, I'm still working on that today.

80
00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:40,960
Speaker 2: But this is definitely a topic that is important for

81
00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:46,080
Speaker 2: us considering, you know, who we are and the stereotypes

82
00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:47,520
Speaker 2: that come along with being black women.

83
00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:51,919
Speaker 3: I can totally relate and understand that. You know, I

84
00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:56,640
Speaker 3: think about my own experiences, and you know, you would

85
00:04:56,640 --> 00:04:59,920
Speaker 3: think that, Okay, well she's a therapist, so she knows

86
00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:05,159
Speaker 3: this right. And even for you, we know that you

87
00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:09,360
Speaker 3: have your degree in conflict resolution. So the assumption is

88
00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:13,599
Speaker 3: that we both know how to do this, that it

89
00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:17,479
Speaker 3: should just come naturally. The reality is that it doesn't.

90
00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:24,200
Speaker 3: That for me, it's a similar experience of I had

91
00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:31,400
Speaker 3: role models who were very assertive and could be in

92
00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:37,599
Speaker 3: some instances perceived as aggressive, constantly use their voice, never

93
00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:41,440
Speaker 3: afraid to use their voice. And then I had other

94
00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:48,039
Speaker 3: role models who had a quiet way of using their voice.

95
00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:51,320
Speaker 3: And so for me, it was a balance of trying

96
00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:55,000
Speaker 3: to figure out, well, when do I use my voice?

97
00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:59,400
Speaker 3: So I found that there were times when I would

98
00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:03,800
Speaker 3: use my voice that assertive way when I got angry,

99
00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:06,640
Speaker 3: and usually that.

100
00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:08,080
Speaker 4: Meant that it would come out as aggressive.

101
00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:10,960
Speaker 3: And we'll talk a little bit later about how to

102
00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:18,760
Speaker 3: differentiate between assertiveness and aggressiveness, right, But I learned to

103
00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:22,159
Speaker 3: kind of take things in a lot and.

104
00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:23,240
Speaker 4: Not use my voice.

105
00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:26,320
Speaker 3: So then that's how I ended up on that more

106
00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:31,800
Speaker 3: aggressive side. And so I know just from conversations with

107
00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:36,120
Speaker 3: different friends and other people in my life, that a

108
00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:42,200
Speaker 3: lot of us have similar experiences, especially being black women.

109
00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:46,080
Speaker 3: When there's the stereotype of the angry black woman, right,

110
00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:51,000
Speaker 3: that the automatic assumption is that when we stand up

111
00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:55,880
Speaker 3: for ourselves that it's got to be because we're angry,

112
00:06:57,080 --> 00:07:02,120
Speaker 3: or if we're angry, then it's a problem, and that

113
00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:07,960
Speaker 3: our anger is not rightfully justified. And people either there's

114
00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:11,320
Speaker 3: situations that I can think of, you know, in the

115
00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:16,920
Speaker 3: public eye where black women have asserted themselves and it's

116
00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:19,720
Speaker 3: become problematic for the people around them.

117
00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:23,000
Speaker 2: And they assert themselves in the same way that maybe,

118
00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:26,840
Speaker 2: let's say, their white counterparts might write typically white men,

119
00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:28,840
Speaker 2: but then when the black woman does it, it's a

120
00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:30,680
Speaker 2: big issue. And I think you have a really good

121
00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:33,240
Speaker 2: example that you were sharing earlier too them with me.

122
00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:34,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, we were.

123
00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:38,120
Speaker 3: Our quote of the day came from Serena Williams and

124
00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:43,760
Speaker 3: it came specifically from the Harper's Bizarre article that recently

125
00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:45,520
Speaker 3: came out and will have the link in the show

126
00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:48,160
Speaker 3: notes so other people can check it out. But she

127
00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:54,960
Speaker 3: was opening up about her experience in twenty eighteen September

128
00:07:55,000 --> 00:08:00,600
Speaker 3: twenty eighteen when she stood up for herself in a

129
00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:06,600
Speaker 3: game that where Naomi Osaka won, and for her, that

130
00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:10,800
Speaker 3: experience cost her a lot of anxiety, and she actually

131
00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:14,400
Speaker 3: in the article mentions that she wants to therapy to

132
00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:21,680
Speaker 3: process what she was experiencing because her level of asserting herself,

133
00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:24,880
Speaker 3: her need to assert herself because she was being wronged

134
00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:29,760
Speaker 3: in that moment, had her feeling guilty about taking away

135
00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:35,000
Speaker 3: from Naomi's big win. And in the article, they also

136
00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:37,800
Speaker 3: mentioned that the media did a really good job of

137
00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:42,120
Speaker 3: putting the two of them against one another, which commonly

138
00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:47,679
Speaker 3: happens when women in workspaces stand up for themselves.

139
00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:50,240
Speaker 4: It's a perception that.

140
00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:56,120
Speaker 3: If one woman is standing up for herself, then it's

141
00:08:56,120 --> 00:08:59,760
Speaker 3: got to be to slight the other woman. And so

142
00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:04,200
Speaker 3: I just get frustrated when I hear those types of

143
00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:10,640
Speaker 3: situations because what it does is for those women who

144
00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:14,400
Speaker 3: might not be comfortable with being assertive, it sends the

145
00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:17,880
Speaker 3: message that it's not okay to be assertive. It sends

146
00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:22,240
Speaker 3: the message that you're wrong. It sends the message that

147
00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:27,240
Speaker 3: your thoughts, your opinions, your feelings are not valid and

148
00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:30,600
Speaker 3: are not valued in this space.

149
00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:35,040
Speaker 2: That's a really good point. I'm just kind of taking

150
00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:37,760
Speaker 2: that on, taking that all in, What does it even

151
00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:39,679
Speaker 2: mean to be assertive? Right cause I feel like sometimes

152
00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:45,040
Speaker 2: people get assertive an aggressive mixed up, And so by

153
00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:49,880
Speaker 2: doing our research, we've defined assertive as showing a confident

154
00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:53,400
Speaker 2: and see this even says showing a confident or forceful personality,

155
00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:55,600
Speaker 2: which to me sounds a bit off putting, right, But

156
00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:59,920
Speaker 2: it could also just mean being decisive, being bold, being

157
00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:03,960
Speaker 2: self for sure. So I think it varies when it

158
00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:06,600
Speaker 2: comes to how assertiveness looks on different people, right, You

159
00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:08,640
Speaker 2: could still be direct and say what you mean to

160
00:10:08,679 --> 00:10:11,120
Speaker 2: me when you say and be assertive, right, And so

161
00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:12,520
Speaker 2: I think about it. I went to the nail shop

162
00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:15,920
Speaker 2: today and a woman came in and she I wouldn't

163
00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:18,319
Speaker 2: even say she was assertive. I think she was just rude,

164
00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:21,280
Speaker 2: but she basically came in and said, can you do

165
00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:23,200
Speaker 2: my nail? Like you know, I called and they said

166
00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:25,760
Speaker 2: you would be free at eleven, and she's like, how

167
00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:27,240
Speaker 2: long is the wait? And so the woman she was

168
00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:29,719
Speaker 2: talking to was like, she said, oh, just pick out

169
00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:31,120
Speaker 2: your color and have a seat. She's like, no, I

170
00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:32,480
Speaker 2: need to know how long is the wait because I

171
00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:35,240
Speaker 2: have a flight. And she said, well, what's the issue

172
00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:37,360
Speaker 2: she said with the other girl besides her doing a

173
00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:39,360
Speaker 2: stup job on my nails? Like she was just really

174
00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:42,040
Speaker 2: she was upset clearly, and she even said like I'm pissed.

175
00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:46,880
Speaker 2: But in my opinion, she may have been assertive plus

176
00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:48,080
Speaker 2: aggressive right.

177
00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:48,520
Speaker 3: In that case.

178
00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:51,560
Speaker 2: Now, when the woman was doing my nails, I noticed

179
00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:53,680
Speaker 2: that I be on it. When they're following them nails,

180
00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:55,080
Speaker 2: I'm like, all right, I'm looking at them to make

181
00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:57,160
Speaker 2: sure they match. I'm like, okay, this one's crooked. So

182
00:10:57,200 --> 00:10:59,680
Speaker 2: when she was doing my nails, I just said, can

183
00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:02,720
Speaker 2: you file you know these two because they're a little crooked.

184
00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:04,640
Speaker 2: So she did that, and I feel like that's being

185
00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:06,760
Speaker 2: assertive right there, just saying what you mean, meaning what

186
00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:08,640
Speaker 2: you say, and kind of advocating for yourself.

187
00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:11,320
Speaker 3: And so, well, let's talk about that a little bit, right,

188
00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:15,559
Speaker 3: because I think that we do confuse assertive and aggressive,

189
00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:19,800
Speaker 3: and sometimes someone can be being they might be trying

190
00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:23,679
Speaker 3: to be assertive, and it's coming across as rude, and

191
00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:26,360
Speaker 3: so we want to think about you know, we constantly

192
00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:31,199
Speaker 3: have conversations where we think about intent versus impact, right,

193
00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:36,560
Speaker 3: and so her intent may not have been to be rude,

194
00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:39,240
Speaker 3: but the impact she had.

195
00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:41,640
Speaker 4: Was that she appeared rude.

196
00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:44,520
Speaker 3: And so if we step back and we think about, well,

197
00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:49,680
Speaker 3: what made her asserting herself? Because I've had situations where

198
00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:52,040
Speaker 3: my nails have been messed up and I'm like, all right, no,

199
00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:55,680
Speaker 3: I need to go back in and I need to

200
00:11:55,920 --> 00:12:00,880
Speaker 3: communicate that y'all mess this up, y'all need to fix this.

201
00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:06,520
Speaker 3: Or I've had situations where I've made an appointment knowing

202
00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:11,480
Speaker 3: that I'm on a short time crunch, and so as

203
00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:13,320
Speaker 3: you were saying that. I was like, damn, I think

204
00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:16,320
Speaker 3: I've been that woman where I walk into the nail

205
00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:19,800
Speaker 3: shop and I have a flight and I'm like, listen,

206
00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:22,200
Speaker 3: I made my nail appointment for five.

207
00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:23,200
Speaker 4: It's five.

208
00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:28,560
Speaker 3: I know that being here takes two hours, and my

209
00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:32,000
Speaker 3: flight I need to be headed to the airport by

210
00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:34,480
Speaker 3: seven point thirty, so I don't have two and a

211
00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:37,040
Speaker 3: half hours to wait around, like I need to be

212
00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:41,480
Speaker 3: done recognizing that it's about my stuff, right, And so

213
00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:44,800
Speaker 3: when I go into that situation how I.

214
00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:45,560
Speaker 4: Would approach it.

215
00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:49,280
Speaker 3: If I'm approaching it from an assertive perspective, then I'm

216
00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:55,000
Speaker 3: recognizing that I'm focused on my time, and if my

217
00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:59,199
Speaker 3: time is something that is the highest priority for me,

218
00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:02,400
Speaker 3: then and I also need to be mindful that. Okay,

219
00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:05,080
Speaker 3: so I'm going to go in and I'm gonna say, hey,

220
00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:08,400
Speaker 3: this is the amount of time that I have. I

221
00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:12,680
Speaker 3: made my appointment for five with the expectation that I'm

222
00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:14,959
Speaker 3: going to be out in two hours, because that's how

223
00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:18,400
Speaker 3: long it normally takes. If I see that there's gonna

224
00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:22,280
Speaker 3: be any variation, then I can inquire about what's causing

225
00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:27,600
Speaker 3: a variation, Like what's causing the delay and then at

226
00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:31,080
Speaker 3: that moment, I can make the decision do I want

227
00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:36,640
Speaker 3: to wait and risk being pushed for time or do

228
00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:41,200
Speaker 3: I want to say, you know what, I see that

229
00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:42,240
Speaker 3: clearly my time is.

230
00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:42,880
Speaker 4: Going to be pushed.

231
00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:47,600
Speaker 3: My time is not like, for whatever reason, my time

232
00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:49,160
Speaker 3: is not going to go the way I wanted it to.

233
00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:51,559
Speaker 4: Maybe I need to either not get my nails done

234
00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:57,120
Speaker 4: right now or I need to go somewhere else.

235
00:13:57,520 --> 00:14:02,400
Speaker 3: Right. And it's also like contextual because even in that moment,

236
00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:06,600
Speaker 3: she's saying that she's coming back because they messed up before.

237
00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:10,080
Speaker 3: So even if we were to initially look at that

238
00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:12,160
Speaker 3: situation and say, well, she should have planned better, she

239
00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:16,240
Speaker 3: shouldn't be making a nail appointment to two hours before

240
00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:17,520
Speaker 3: she needs to be at the airport.

241
00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:20,360
Speaker 4: No to self, let me not do that again in life.

242
00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:24,360
Speaker 3: Right, But that wasn't a part of her original plan

243
00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:27,400
Speaker 3: coming into the nail shop right before an appointment. It

244
00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:31,800
Speaker 3: sounds like she came in at an appropriate time considering

245
00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:34,920
Speaker 3: her schedule, right, she had practiced some good time management,

246
00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:40,520
Speaker 3: and now this is a deviation to what she initially planned.

247
00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:42,320
Speaker 4: So when we think about the.

248
00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:46,760
Speaker 3: Context of she's coming in had initially respected her time

249
00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:51,400
Speaker 3: and now she's coming in on something that she didn't

250
00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:56,600
Speaker 3: plan on, that she didn't anticipate, so she's stressed and

251
00:14:56,680 --> 00:15:00,240
Speaker 3: she's like, listen, y'all messed up my nails all ready.

252
00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:03,040
Speaker 3: I need y'all to be trying to be more accommodating

253
00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:08,960
Speaker 3: towards me. In that context, I see where her need

254
00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:12,160
Speaker 3: to be assertive could come across as being rude.

255
00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:14,320
Speaker 2: That makes sense, And I think about it. When you

256
00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:16,600
Speaker 2: were saying that, it made me think about in situations

257
00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:21,480
Speaker 2: where you being rude, it's probably the most appropriate, you know,

258
00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:25,240
Speaker 2: disposition to have based on the circumstance and the context,

259
00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:27,440
Speaker 2: and so I think that it's in I don't know.

260
00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:29,640
Speaker 2: I think sometimes it's important to consider the context, like

261
00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:31,040
Speaker 2: you said, and if she did come before, I think

262
00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:32,880
Speaker 2: she actually said it was her second time coming back,

263
00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:35,240
Speaker 2: And so when you consider all that, it's like, you

264
00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:37,640
Speaker 2: know what, there are definitely situations where I've been super

265
00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:39,240
Speaker 2: pissed and I'm like, yo, I just want you to

266
00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:41,120
Speaker 2: do this shit the right way so I can get

267
00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:43,000
Speaker 2: on with my day. So I get it. No, that

268
00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:46,200
Speaker 2: makes sense. I do think that there are like different

269
00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:48,920
Speaker 2: brands of assertiveness, and it kind of makes me think

270
00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:51,280
Speaker 2: about Jamel Hill, and so I think this was in

271
00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:54,920
Speaker 2: what twenty seventeen or she had posted My Week last year,

272
00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:57,240
Speaker 2: That's what I thought. But this article that I found,

273
00:15:57,280 --> 00:16:00,320
Speaker 2: since it was posted in October of twenty seven teen,

274
00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:03,400
Speaker 2: but I feel like that was in twenty eighteen.

275
00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:06,240
Speaker 3: Who it was the last The last couple of years

276
00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:08,480
Speaker 3: have been pretty rough on the black right in terms

277
00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:11,440
Speaker 3: of how they attack our willingness to be assertive.

278
00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:17,600
Speaker 2: You know what happened was Jamel Hill from ESPN had

279
00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:20,760
Speaker 2: posted a tweet and the tweet says something along the

280
00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:25,560
Speaker 2: lines of Donald Trump is a white supremacist who is

281
00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:30,320
Speaker 2: largely who surrounds himself with white supremacists or something like that.

282
00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:35,480
Speaker 2: And Trump ended up tweeting about her, saying that, oh,

283
00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:39,600
Speaker 2: this must be why ESPN's ratings are low. And then

284
00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:44,160
Speaker 2: ESPN they ended up firing her because they said that

285
00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:47,400
Speaker 2: she had she didn't abide by their social media guidelines

286
00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:48,960
Speaker 2: or something like that. And when you think about it,

287
00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:51,600
Speaker 2: what she did was she was assertive, she spoke truth

288
00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:53,600
Speaker 2: to power, and because they didn't like what she said

289
00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:57,360
Speaker 2: and who had bothered they let her go. Talented woman

290
00:16:57,360 --> 00:16:59,200
Speaker 2: who does a great job at what you know, what

291
00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:01,560
Speaker 2: she was doing there, And it's like, because she used

292
00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:05,240
Speaker 2: her voice and used her platform to speak truth to power,

293
00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:08,200
Speaker 2: because what she said was the truth, and they didn't

294
00:17:08,320 --> 00:17:11,359
Speaker 2: like it. It's like, oh, now we have to police you

295
00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:14,840
Speaker 2: because we don't like the truth that you're speaking, you know.

296
00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:17,879
Speaker 3: And so and I want to point out that she

297
00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:24,960
Speaker 3: wasn't fired immediately after that, right, there were multiple instances

298
00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:29,760
Speaker 3: where she has spoke where she spoke out, where she

299
00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:31,000
Speaker 3: used her voice.

300
00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:32,560
Speaker 2: About Trump or just in general.

301
00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:36,320
Speaker 3: And the thing is, the thing that comes up for

302
00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:40,159
Speaker 3: me with that is this whole this complexity of how

303
00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:47,360
Speaker 3: black women are expected to be assertive and then when

304
00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:50,680
Speaker 3: it doesn't benefit the other people, then it becomes a problem.

305
00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:51,240
Speaker 4: Right.

306
00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:58,720
Speaker 3: So part of what, in my opinion, part of why

307
00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:04,520
Speaker 3: Jamelle Hill was so successful was because she was very

308
00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:07,359
Speaker 3: assertive from the from day one.

309
00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:08,960
Speaker 4: Has no and if you.

310
00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:13,399
Speaker 3: She has a podcast on Spotify now and she writes

311
00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:17,199
Speaker 3: for The Atlantic currently, if you read any of her articles,

312
00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:20,480
Speaker 3: if you listen to a podcast, she has no problem

313
00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:26,800
Speaker 3: with assertiveness, never has. Her previous employer was well aware

314
00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:31,439
Speaker 3: of that and so initially they were fine with it.

315
00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:35,720
Speaker 3: It worked out well until it didn't. And I think

316
00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:38,280
Speaker 3: that That is the problem that a lot of black

317
00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:46,160
Speaker 3: women face in the workplace is that people appreciate our

318
00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:51,240
Speaker 3: assertiveness until they don't. And it's like, okay, well, at

319
00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:54,960
Speaker 3: what point do they not appreciate our assertiveness anymore? Well,

320
00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:59,440
Speaker 3: generally they appreciate ours. They don't appreciate our assertiveness anymore

321
00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:06,160
Speaker 3: when it's used on them when we point out something

322
00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:11,920
Speaker 3: they have done wrong. So they're fine when we stick

323
00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:16,439
Speaker 3: up for them, right when they look to us to

324
00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:21,679
Speaker 3: be the person that defends everybody, that speaks up against

325
00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:25,159
Speaker 3: all the injustice is happening. But then when we point

326
00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:29,320
Speaker 3: out where they're being racist, or they're being sexist or

327
00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:32,600
Speaker 3: agis or whatever it is that they're doing, when we

328
00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:37,600
Speaker 3: assert ourselves with them, that's when it becomes a problem.

329
00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:40,440
Speaker 2: That's a really good point. And there's this really great

330
00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:44,800
Speaker 2: article on the National Women's Law Center. It's called The

331
00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:47,880
Speaker 2: Risk of Being a Black Woman with a Voice by

332
00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:50,639
Speaker 2: Caleb Patrick, and I want to read this one paragraph

333
00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:53,120
Speaker 2: and see what you think about it. So it says,

334
00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:56,360
Speaker 2: the obstacles for black women and girls are very well documented.

335
00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:59,080
Speaker 2: The high unemployment rate for black women tells us that

336
00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:02,240
Speaker 2: sometimes it's even harder for black women to get a job.

337
00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:05,400
Speaker 2: The large wage gap tells us that too many black

338
00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:07,960
Speaker 2: women go to work every day just to be undervalued

339
00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:12,040
Speaker 2: and underpaid as a black woman. Jamel's experience is personal

340
00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:14,720
Speaker 2: to me, and it's a reminder that those black women

341
00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:18,000
Speaker 2: who are able to find success are still subject to

342
00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:22,280
Speaker 2: the unspoken rules of how black women are supposed to act, speak,

343
00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:27,120
Speaker 2: and behave at work. In school, the way schools disproportionately

344
00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:30,960
Speaker 2: suspend black girls tells us that the silencing of black

345
00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:34,760
Speaker 2: women and girls begins early. I know I was taught

346
00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:37,280
Speaker 2: to be seen and not heard when I was younger.

347
00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:40,800
Speaker 2: I was taught to, you know, be nice and sweet

348
00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:44,159
Speaker 2: and be, you know, a gentle girl. And it's just

349
00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:46,359
Speaker 2: it's not good for us. And I think you made

350
00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:47,760
Speaker 2: a really good point. I was going to ask this

351
00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:52,200
Speaker 2: question earlier and you said that sometimes when you are assertive,

352
00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:54,480
Speaker 2: it comes off as aggressive, and I was going to

353
00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:56,359
Speaker 2: ask you, but you actually said it, Like, is that

354
00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:58,320
Speaker 2: because there's like built up stuff? I know for me,

355
00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:00,159
Speaker 2: sometimes it's like okay, I could take something on and

356
00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:02,359
Speaker 2: on and then at one point I just snapped and

357
00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:04,159
Speaker 2: people are like, what the fuck is on wire? And

358
00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:05,960
Speaker 2: it's like, well, I've been holding the shin in the

359
00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:08,520
Speaker 2: whole time. I saw this quote on social media and

360
00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:10,800
Speaker 2: I totally forgot, but it says something along the lines of, like,

361
00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:14,200
Speaker 2: we're doing ourselves at disservice when we don't speak up

362
00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:16,800
Speaker 2: when those things happen and we just keep on letting

363
00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:18,960
Speaker 2: it ride, because then we're going to blow up. People

364
00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:21,360
Speaker 2: gonna look at us like we're crazy. And we could

365
00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:24,800
Speaker 2: have just been upfront an assertive initially, which is difficult, right,

366
00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:26,679
Speaker 2: It's not always easy for certain people based on your

367
00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:31,000
Speaker 2: temperament and personality. And so we got you. We got

368
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:34,720
Speaker 2: some tips on how we can all work on being assertive,

369
00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:36,879
Speaker 2: because it is really important to be assertive so that

370
00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:39,480
Speaker 2: I know for me, like there's no guess work right

371
00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:41,520
Speaker 2: when people are assertive, and you I like to know

372
00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:43,639
Speaker 2: where people stand, like tell me what it is. Don't

373
00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:46,040
Speaker 2: say one thing and you really feel another way, like

374
00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:49,840
Speaker 2: keep it honest, like be keep it a hundred, be honest,

375
00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:51,920
Speaker 2: let me know how you feel so that we can

376
00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:54,359
Speaker 2: have an honest dialogue. And we both were on the

377
00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:57,920
Speaker 2: same page. And so I think we are empowering ourselves,

378
00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:02,400
Speaker 2: but also that we have better communication when we are assertive.

379
00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:05,280
Speaker 3: So it helps everyone, right, And I think the communication

380
00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:10,360
Speaker 3: piece is super important that that is probably the biggest

381
00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:18,320
Speaker 3: piece in assertiveness versus being aggressive versus being passive.

382
00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:23,920
Speaker 4: Passive aggressive, Oh yeah, that not that combination. So there's four, right.

383
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:29,360
Speaker 3: So there's like the passive person that lets everything slide, right,

384
00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:31,240
Speaker 3: doesn't stand up for themselves at.

385
00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:32,840
Speaker 4: All, and they're okay with that.

386
00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:42,040
Speaker 3: Then there's your passive aggressive person who on the surface

387
00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:45,640
Speaker 3: appears to be okay with it, but in reality they're not.

388
00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:49,560
Speaker 3: And so then they will do some manipulative little things

389
00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:53,760
Speaker 3: to communicate to you and I can't even and it's

390
00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:57,600
Speaker 3: not always necessarily manipulative, but they'll do petty thing, Yeah,

391
00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:01,440
Speaker 3: they'll do like petty things, or they'll engage you in

392
00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:06,080
Speaker 3: a behavior without articulating what's going on, and that's a

393
00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:09,199
Speaker 3: way to let you know how they're feeling without saying

394
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:12,600
Speaker 3: how they're feeling, so they're being kind of indirect. Then

395
00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:15,440
Speaker 3: you have the person who's flat out aggressive, and those

396
00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:16,359
Speaker 3: are people that can come.

397
00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:17,679
Speaker 4: Across as like assholes.

398
00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:18,000
Speaker 2: Right.

399
00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:20,760
Speaker 4: Then you have our assertive person.

400
00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:26,119
Speaker 3: And our assertive person is that person who's able to

401
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:32,440
Speaker 3: identify the behavior the impact their feelings and what they

402
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:38,600
Speaker 3: want changed. Right, They use eye statements, they speak loudly

403
00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:43,560
Speaker 3: and clearly, avoiding pauses and ums. So they're making sure

404
00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:47,200
Speaker 3: that they're coming across as confident and competent. They own

405
00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:53,240
Speaker 3: what they need, and they aim for positivity and collaboration.

406
00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:56,600
Speaker 2: Now, question for you, what does it mean when we

407
00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:58,440
Speaker 2: say identify the impact.

408
00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:03,280
Speaker 3: So let's go back to our example of the nail shot. Right,

409
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:08,080
Speaker 3: So first we're gonna identify the behavior. The behavior is

410
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:12,679
Speaker 3: getting my nails done right, and my nails were not

411
00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:19,080
Speaker 3: done properly. That's the behavior. The impact is thinking about

412
00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:25,359
Speaker 3: what's gonna happen to everyone around me and myself in

413
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:32,280
Speaker 3: this moment. When I speak up right my feelings, I'm

414
00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:40,080
Speaker 3: pissed off. What I want changed? I need my nails redone, okay, okay.

415
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:45,560
Speaker 3: And so when we look at that situation, if I

416
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:49,480
Speaker 3: come in in an aggressive tone, meaning I come in

417
00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:54,119
Speaker 3: and I'm yelling and I'm saying, y'all fucked up my nails.

418
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:57,040
Speaker 3: I need this shit redone right now, right like I

419
00:24:57,040 --> 00:24:59,000
Speaker 3: don't care what you're doing, stop what you're doing, you

420
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:01,440
Speaker 3: need to help, and I'm setting it off in there, right,

421
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:08,000
Speaker 3: that's aggressive. The impact that's gonna have is one, you're

422
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:16,160
Speaker 3: gonna upset and activate everyone in the nail shop. Then

423
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:20,800
Speaker 3: you're gonna make it so that the nail tech is

424
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:24,920
Speaker 3: not gonna want to assist you. If anything, the nail

425
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:30,440
Speaker 3: tech might either become aggressive with you, or they may

426
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:34,120
Speaker 3: engage in a passive aggressive manner with you, in which

427
00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:36,400
Speaker 3: they tell you, oh, it's okay, just have a seat.

428
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:39,800
Speaker 3: I'll get with you shortly and let you sit there,

429
00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 3: and we'll find all kinds of other customers to help in,

430
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:46,200
Speaker 3: other things to do to make you wait because you

431
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:49,520
Speaker 3: upset them, so you and then you get more pissed

432
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:52,280
Speaker 3: off because you're sitting there waiting, and so it starts

433
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:56,440
Speaker 3: this vicious cycle. If we back it up and think

434
00:25:56,480 --> 00:26:01,360
Speaker 3: about how to assertively handle that situation, you come in well,

435
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:05,280
Speaker 3: once she already called, she'd called ahead and made an appointment,

436
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:08,479
Speaker 3: so when she walks in, she can identify who she is.

437
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:11,879
Speaker 3: She can say I'm really you know, in a calm manner,

438
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:17,040
Speaker 3: state that she's really unhappy with the way her nails

439
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:21,040
Speaker 3: have turned out, and ask what is the process for

440
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:28,000
Speaker 3: getting this corrected? Articulate you know that she's upset, and

441
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:30,240
Speaker 3: even if and if she's been a long time customer.

442
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:33,760
Speaker 3: She can say, you know, I know that you all

443
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:38,120
Speaker 3: generally do a much better job. I've been coming here

444
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:42,800
Speaker 3: for X amount of time. I enjoy being a customer here.

445
00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 3: I want a chance for us to rectify this situation

446
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:52,720
Speaker 3: in that she's being clear that she values this space,

447
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 3: but she wants good service too, and she's also letting

448
00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:04,240
Speaker 3: them know that she didn't appreciate the previous service that

449
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:07,720
Speaker 3: she has, So she's articulating her feelings and so in

450
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:13,960
Speaker 3: that moment, the nail tech is more likely to find a.

451
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:15,720
Speaker 4: Way to assist her.

452
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:19,679
Speaker 3: The hope is that if she communicates in that assertive way,

453
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:25,840
Speaker 3: that they would respond in kind and the situation would

454
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:28,879
Speaker 3: resolve in a manner that's going to be helpful for

455
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:29,680
Speaker 3: both parties.

456
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:33,439
Speaker 2: So it sounds like impact is you just being I

457
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:38,280
Speaker 2: want to say, considerate of how your behavior will impact

458
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:42,000
Speaker 2: the people that will be receiving it, basically. And the

459
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:45,400
Speaker 2: interesting thing about that, I feel like is sometimes our

460
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:49,320
Speaker 2: intent doesn't match our impact, right, And so I feel

461
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:51,639
Speaker 2: like even having a conversation at some point around like

462
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:54,480
Speaker 2: people in their sensitivity, everyone takes things differently. So you

463
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:57,360
Speaker 2: might be being assertive and you're like, you know what

464
00:27:57,440 --> 00:27:59,520
Speaker 2: I'm not even being mean or rude or anything. I'm

465
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:01,879
Speaker 2: being as certain. I'm being direct. I'm letting you know

466
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:05,320
Speaker 2: what I want how I want it. And because someone

467
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:07,679
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm a sensitive person, so no judgment, but

468
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:10,240
Speaker 2: because someone may be sensitive or they may not be

469
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:13,760
Speaker 2: used to your conversation style, your intention was to be assertive,

470
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 2: that person received it in a different way. So I

471
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:18,880
Speaker 2: think that that's a possibility. So even in being assertive,

472
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:23,399
Speaker 2: everyone's not going to understand or agree with it, but

473
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:26,160
Speaker 2: it's still very important, I think for us to be assertive,

474
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 2: and I do try. I know. It's funny. I have

475
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:32,600
Speaker 2: people around me that are a lot more assertive, and

476
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:34,399
Speaker 2: I watched them and I'm just like, oh my gosh,

477
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:37,200
Speaker 2: I can run public together. I'm just like, oh my goodness,

478
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:39,920
Speaker 2: here we go. Because I don't usually like to rock

479
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:41,480
Speaker 2: the boat unless it's like it takes a lot for

480
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:42,720
Speaker 2: me to get to that point where it's like, oh,

481
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 2: hell no, we bought it, you know what I mean.

482
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:47,560
Speaker 4: But yeah, but I think.

483
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:52,160
Speaker 3: Part of our journey on assertiveness is getting better with

484
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:54,240
Speaker 3: being okay with the boat rocking.

485
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:55,040
Speaker 2: For sure.

486
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 3: Absolutely, Because as you said that, I thought about, like, yeah,

487
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:01,120
Speaker 3: there have been times where I've been out with my

488
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:05,520
Speaker 3: sisters or my mom and they have been like extremely assertive, yes,

489
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:09,480
Speaker 3: and I'm just sitting back and I'm like, really, this ain't.

490
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:11,080
Speaker 4: That big a deal, Like why do we have to

491
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:11,960
Speaker 4: complain about that?

492
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:16,640
Speaker 3: And more recently, one of my sisters has said, you know,

493
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:20,440
Speaker 3: she's kind of made the comment that I've become way

494
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:23,400
Speaker 3: more assertive, like you were pointing out, like you're pointing

495
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:27,240
Speaker 3: out all kinds of stuff now, and I'm like, yeah,

496
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:32,600
Speaker 3: because part of that is me practicing being more assertive.

497
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:35,160
Speaker 3: And part of why I want to put more energy

498
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:40,120
Speaker 3: into being assertive is because that protects my energy. And

499
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 3: in multiple episodes, we talk about protecting our energy, self care,

500
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:53,080
Speaker 3: and self preservation, and being assertive aligns with all of

501
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:58,080
Speaker 3: those things. So if I'm not assertive, then I run

502
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:03,280
Speaker 3: the risk of taking in things that I don't want

503
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:06,120
Speaker 3: to that I don't want really want to take in,

504
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 3: and then I'm not What that means is I'm not

505
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:13,480
Speaker 3: communicating my real feelings, and then that builds up resentment,

506
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 3: and then that's when I end up exploding on someone

507
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:24,520
Speaker 3: exploding in the situation that more than likely didn't deserve me.

508
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:25,240
Speaker 4: Exploding.

509
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 3: Going back to our nail shop example of that woman

510
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:32,480
Speaker 3: may have been coming in and she may have exploded

511
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:37,720
Speaker 3: because there were lots of other things in her life

512
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 3: that she hadn't addressed, and this felt like the safe

513
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:45,240
Speaker 3: opportunity to explode because there's less risk involved.

514
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:47,760
Speaker 2: That's a really good point. I mean, that's so true.

515
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 2: And I think even for me, I've come a long

516
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 2: way when it comes to being desertive, but of course

517
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 2: there's always room for improvement. And I know sometimes I

518
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:56,400
Speaker 2: get really nervous. My stomach is kind of the notts,

519
00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:58,240
Speaker 2: and I'm kind of going back and forth in my

520
00:30:58,280 --> 00:30:59,719
Speaker 2: head on like how it's going to play out, how

521
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:02,240
Speaker 2: to want to say it, what might the impact be.

522
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:05,440
Speaker 2: But I still try to push myself to move forward

523
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:08,120
Speaker 2: with it because, like you said, sometimes it's too exhausting.

524
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 2: I'm like, I don't want to take on this energy.

525
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:11,760
Speaker 2: And you know, let's say someone does something for you,

526
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:16,400
Speaker 2: or I'm thinking about a situation where like someone may

527
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:18,720
Speaker 2: have I'm trying to think of like a recent situation

528
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 2: I had where I think someone may have designed something like,

529
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 2: oh do you like this? Now you have an opportunity

530
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:25,760
Speaker 2: to be direct and be the assertive and say no,

531
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:28,640
Speaker 2: can you fix this, or just oh yeah, it's cool,

532
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:30,400
Speaker 2: and then you're looking at this piece of shit like,

533
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:33,640
Speaker 2: god damn it, I should have said something I hate

534
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:36,000
Speaker 2: this art or or whatever it is. But because you

535
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:38,680
Speaker 2: weren't assertive, now you kind of have to deal with that.

536
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 2: And so I think I'm getting to the point where

537
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:44,880
Speaker 2: I'm just exhausted. I'm over just letting stuff slide. But again,

538
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 2: if you are working on being assertive, you are not alone.

539
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 2: We are all a work in progress. We are all

540
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:52,600
Speaker 2: trying to do our best. Some of us have more

541
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:56,200
Speaker 2: I want to say, I don't even know the adjective

542
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:58,240
Speaker 2: to use, but some of us have different personalities and

543
00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:01,400
Speaker 2: that just comes naturally for us, whereas others like myself

544
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:03,400
Speaker 2: and I think domb as well, we have to work

545
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 2: a little harder on building that muscle. But like anything else,

546
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:09,080
Speaker 2: once you build that muscle and you're exercising it, you're

547
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:11,600
Speaker 2: gonna get better. So it's gonna be okay.

548
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:14,440
Speaker 3: I agree, and I think, yeah, it's just a matter

549
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:19,160
Speaker 3: of building, like adding to that arsenal. And you know,

550
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:23,120
Speaker 3: as we have been talking, like I think about how

551
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:26,600
Speaker 3: I'm good at talking a good game. If we go

552
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:30,040
Speaker 3: back to the beginning where I said that, like by

553
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:35,480
Speaker 3: nature of our degrees and our profession, logically we know

554
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:40,440
Speaker 3: how to do it right. So I can talk a

555
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:44,360
Speaker 3: good game because I know how to do it. I

556
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:49,240
Speaker 3: can say to other people in this situation, this is

557
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:50,760
Speaker 3: what I would do, and this is what you This

558
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 3: is all you need to handle.

559
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:52,720
Speaker 4: This girl, let's get this.

560
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 3: You know. I can use the language, have the tone,

561
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 3: But sometimes for me, in the small moments, I don't

562
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:05,560
Speaker 3: show up for myself. I'm good at showing up for others,

563
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:08,800
Speaker 3: asserting for others, but the muscle that I'm trying to

564
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:11,000
Speaker 3: build is asserting myself right.

565
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:13,160
Speaker 4: And so before we.

566
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:17,040
Speaker 3: Wrap up, I want to just go over our tips

567
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 3: one more time so that everybody listening can remember how

568
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 3: to be assertive, because I know that there's all of

569
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:34,040
Speaker 3: us listening have again, we're either passive, passive, aggressive, aggressive,

570
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 3: or assertive, and it's really hard for us to truly

571
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:44,920
Speaker 3: be assertive. If we really want to be assertive, then

572
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:49,760
Speaker 3: we want to remember that we need to in the

573
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:55,440
Speaker 3: situation where we're faced with a decision, we identify the behavior,

574
00:33:56,480 --> 00:34:02,200
Speaker 3: think about the impact, identify our fear, and then what

575
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:07,280
Speaker 3: we want changed as we're communicating about those things we

576
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:14,560
Speaker 3: use ie statements, we speak loudly and clearly, avoiding pauses

577
00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:20,000
Speaker 3: and ums. We own, take ownership and responsibility for what

578
00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:24,200
Speaker 3: it is that we need, and then we aim for

579
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:30,960
Speaker 3: positivity and collaboration. You catch more bees and flies with

580
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:32,880
Speaker 3: honey than you do with vinegar.

581
00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:36,719
Speaker 2: That is awesome, and I want to add two little

582
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:39,359
Speaker 2: nuggets onto that. The next what you made me think

583
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:43,240
Speaker 2: of is be unapologetic. I know I am the sorriest

584
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 2: person ever. I will sorry you to death. Oh I'm

585
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:48,960
Speaker 2: sorry when I'll need something. I am really working on

586
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:51,520
Speaker 2: that because you're not sorry. No, you said what you said,

587
00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:55,279
Speaker 2: I said what I said. Yeah at me, okay, say

588
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:57,480
Speaker 2: what you mean, mean what you say, and be unapologetic.

589
00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:01,239
Speaker 2: And then also what we allow will continue. So we

590
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:04,520
Speaker 2: continue to let someone do something and we never say anything.

591
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:06,520
Speaker 2: We can't be mad at them when they keep on

592
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:09,520
Speaker 2: doing it because they don't know, because we haven't asserted ourselves.

593
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:12,880
Speaker 2: And so you got this. Just know that it's baby steps, right,

594
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:15,960
Speaker 2: So take a small little step and you can do it.

595
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:17,920
Speaker 2: We have other episodes that you need to listen to

596
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:22,719
Speaker 2: about confidence, conflict resolution, and boundaries. And so if you

597
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:25,160
Speaker 2: kind of put those on rotation, you will be good

598
00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:28,040
Speaker 2: to go. You'll be telling everybody exactly how you feel.

599
00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:29,920
Speaker 2: Before you know it, they'll be like, who is this

600
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:33,080
Speaker 2: new person? Who is she? Oh my gosh. So tune

601
00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:36,920
Speaker 2: into those episodes and that's everything you need.

602
00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:42,160
Speaker 3: Thanks for joining us today in her Space. Please note

603
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:46,240
Speaker 3: that our show may contain conversations about self help, ad vice,

604
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:49,719
Speaker 3: self empowerment, and mental health, but it is by no

605
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:52,880
Speaker 3: means meant to be a substitute for an ongoing formal

606
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:57,160
Speaker 3: relationship with a trained mental health provider. If you are

607
00:35:57,160 --> 00:35:59,680
Speaker 3: someone you know is in need of mental health care,

608
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:04,040
Speaker 3: please visit the therap people at Girls Directory Psychology today

609
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:06,719
Speaker 3: or contact your insurance provider.

610
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:10,000
Speaker 2: If you liked what you heard and want to keep

611
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:14,759
Speaker 2: the conversation going, connect with us on Facebook, Instagram, and

612
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:20,839
Speaker 2: Twitter at Herspace podcast or check out our website at

613
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:26,080
Speaker 2: herspacepodcast dot com. And before we meet again, repeat after me,

614
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:30,200
Speaker 2: I will not judge myself for where I'm starting. I'm

615
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:31,879
Speaker 2: making progress every day.

616
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:34,920
Speaker 4: Thanks for joining us. We'll see you next week. Lady