Speaker 1: I was like everybody at this point, I was like
Speaker 1: that man losing bags quick for no reason. Just self
Speaker 1: inflicted man, self inflicted. Okay, thank you. It's really been
Speaker 1: the year self sabotage. I think he's the leader in
Speaker 1: the clubhouse though her self Sabota is yeah, yeah, if
Speaker 1: you look it up in the dictionary, absolutely absolutely. Here
Speaker 1: we go, y'all, morning, everybody in DJ Envy Angela yee
Speaker 1: charlote and the guy. We are to breakfast club. We
Speaker 1: got a special guests in the building. She's got a
Speaker 1: new book out her uphill, her memoir. That's right. Great picture,
Speaker 1: by the way, thank you. How many of these did
Speaker 1: you have to pick through before you landed on this week?
Speaker 1: You know what? And this is gonna sound far more
Speaker 1: delicious than I actually mean it, But that was from
Speaker 1: a Playboy shoot. I did what Yeah, So how did
Speaker 1: you Playboy? Yeah? Because Playboy, um reading for the articles
Speaker 1: is good writing, it's very good writing. And Playboy every
Speaker 1: let me see with pictures on the back. But they
Speaker 1: did a feature on me um at some point. I
Speaker 1: think it was earlier this year. And so the photo shoot, Uh,
Speaker 1: the photographer I think believe his name is Eric Carter.
Speaker 1: He's based out of la He took some phenomenal photos.
Speaker 1: So because during covid um, you know, we couldn't really
Speaker 1: work out how to you know, get new photos taken.
Speaker 1: So I was like, I love these from the Playboy shoot.
Speaker 1: I play a joke on the husband and be like, hey,
Speaker 1: I'm doing a shoot with Playboy. Oh I totally did.
Speaker 1: Like that was just like I'm gonna being Playboy. He
Speaker 1: was like, what anymore? No, I don't think so. I
Speaker 1: think it's like a more of a you know, content
Speaker 1: or they've always had good articles and player I'm serious. Listen,
Speaker 1: Alex Hayley wrote for Playboy. Okay, so like, I don't
Speaker 1: think anybody ever went to Playboy for the articles you're
Speaker 1: telling on yourself right now. But that's okay. I love
Speaker 1: to tite a little book to uphill and I'm is
Speaker 1: a play on your last name, of course, but I
Speaker 1: mean it actually isn't. It's not And it was not
Speaker 1: my title idea. This was not the original title that
Speaker 1: I wanted that came in third uh. No, the original
Speaker 1: title I wanted was Broken Curses because I talked a
Speaker 1: lot about my family history, family trauma and all of
Speaker 1: that and my mother. And I'm sure you know, you
Speaker 1: guys have heard this before from elders or from your
Speaker 1: parents or uncles or whatever. But the fact that there
Speaker 1: are generational curses and my mother used to talk about,
Speaker 1: you know, breaking those in our family. And so that's
Speaker 1: why I wanted to name in Broken Curses. But my
Speaker 1: publisher they thought it was a little too negative, that
Speaker 1: it wasn't uplifting enough. And my book editor, Shannon shout
Speaker 1: out to you, Shannon, she came up with that title.
Speaker 1: Up you okay, And I said, to you, the chosen
Speaker 1: one said it because honestly, you talk about your mom
Speaker 1: and the things that she's been through and your whole family,
Speaker 1: and it's a lot, and so how did she feel about,
Speaker 1: you know, these stories being told. So I talked to
Speaker 1: my mother, but we had numerous conversations about what was
Speaker 1: going to be in this book, and she knew what
Speaker 1: I was doing in the journey that I was on
Speaker 1: and writing it, and knew that I wanted to write
Speaker 1: it transparently. But honestly, Angel, that was probably the most
Speaker 1: difficult part because I was I was in the unfortunate
Speaker 1: position of asking my mother about the worst moments of
Speaker 1: her life, and I tried to save those conversations for last,
Speaker 1: if you will, so that we could talk about maybe
Speaker 1: happier things and fund memories, just to kind of not
Speaker 1: come from a traumatic, you know, perspective. And so it
Speaker 1: was tough. I mean, my mother told me some stories
Speaker 1: I did not even know. You know, the story that
Speaker 1: I tell in the book about her, Okay, but you know,
Speaker 1: I guess it's an example of a story. But the
Speaker 1: story I tell them the book about how one of
Speaker 1: her low points during her addiction was being, you know,
Speaker 1: caught in this drug house and having to hide out
Speaker 1: from drug dealers in that house on the floor, on
Speaker 1: a rat infestive floor. I didn't even know that story
Speaker 1: until she told me, because that happened when I was
Speaker 1: in college. I was so scared with that part. It
Speaker 1: was underneath those dirty clothes, rats running around, yep, Andy,
Speaker 1: and I thought they was gonna steal her car while
Speaker 1: she was inside. Uh well, her her car, as I
Speaker 1: tell did eventually get stolen, you know, um and uh
Speaker 1: it was nothing she could do about it, but it
Speaker 1: was where she was at the time that was stolen,
Speaker 1: at what she was doing. How did you feel having
Speaker 1: those conversations with your mom because I had to be emotional.
Speaker 1: I was reading some of that stuff that she went through,
Speaker 1: and I was like in tears, Um it was. It
Speaker 1: was difficult, and but I think for her it was
Speaker 1: cathartic because these are traumatic incidents that you know, during
Speaker 1: the time after she was you know, sexually abused, and
Speaker 1: as I telling the book, she was the victim of
Speaker 1: a violent rape. You know, people weren't going to therapy then,
Speaker 1: like that wasn't suggested and as you know, Charlemagne from
Speaker 1: your working mental health in our community, that was something
Speaker 1: we didn't do. So imagine going through all of that
Speaker 1: with no therapy. And that's why, as I discussed in
Speaker 1: the book, she was going through very severe PTSD and
Speaker 1: did not know it because that wasn't a term then
Speaker 1: that we even were familiar with. And so, yeah, those
Speaker 1: are those are difficult conversations, but I think at the
Speaker 1: end of them, it was really healing for both of us.
Speaker 1: You know, to be honest, like I certainly knew about
Speaker 1: the trauma she experienced, but her going into detail it
Speaker 1: gives me a better and more enriched perspective about who
Speaker 1: she is. Yeah, I feel like it allowed I feel
Speaker 1: like it allowed you to give her more grace. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and listen, people have been asking me about what I
Speaker 1: want people to take away from this book. It's a
Speaker 1: few things, but one of the most important things is
Speaker 1: that I want I want people to know you should
Speaker 1: talk to your people while they're here, right like your mother's,
Speaker 1: your auntie's, your father, whoever in your family, find out
Speaker 1: about them because as usually, like especially your relatives and
Speaker 1: especially your parents, they lived the whole life before you
Speaker 1: even got here. And writing this book it really made
Speaker 1: me miss my grandmother who died in twenty and ten,
Speaker 1: because I realized I didn't ask her nearly as much
Speaker 1: about her life as I should have. You know, even
Speaker 1: I know it's hard sometimes for parents and grandparents to share,
Speaker 1: you know, traumatic moments or their failures or disappointments, but
Speaker 1: it helps you see them as full of people, and
Speaker 1: maybe that does allow you to give them more grace
Speaker 1: with some of the decisions they made and even in
Speaker 1: some respects to how they've treated you. I was gonna ask,
Speaker 1: did you understand more after talking to your mom and
Speaker 1: writing this book, because you know, even for myself, I
Speaker 1: didn't really understand until I had kids, and then when
Speaker 1: I had kids and I'm living my own life. I'm like,
Speaker 1: that's why my dad did that, That's why my mom
Speaker 1: acted that way. But you know, during the time, I
Speaker 1: don't want to say I hated them, what you hated
Speaker 1: what they were doing, right, But now I was like, damn,
Speaker 1: I understand. So did you understand more and were able
Speaker 1: to I'm you know, what I understood more is why
Speaker 1: even in present day she lives with so much regret.
Speaker 1: We had an interesting conversation recently about that because I
Speaker 1: forgave my mother for this a long time ago. I've
Speaker 1: let this go because I think as a kid, you know,
Speaker 1: it was it was different because her trauma was something
Speaker 1: I had to navigate around. So it felt like my
Speaker 1: childhood was being stolen from me. And so you know,
Speaker 1: you carry some resentment for that, and so I let
Speaker 1: that go. I forgave her, encouraged her as she was
Speaker 1: turning her life around. You know my mother, I mean,
Speaker 1: she's got her masters now, you know, she got her
Speaker 1: bachelor masters. You know, she outeducated me, which I'm very
Speaker 1: very proud that she did that, and she went back
Speaker 1: to school in her fifties. Okay, and so you know,
Speaker 1: this has really been a remarkable turn amount for her.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean, you know, once I let all
Speaker 1: of that stuff, you know, go, I think I was
Speaker 1: good with it. But she I think she still struggles
Speaker 1: to forgive herself because she feels like she missed so much.
Speaker 1: And but the thing isn't It's something I wrote in
Speaker 1: the book. It's like my mother was there for everything,
Speaker 1: Like even though you know she had a severe addiction.
Speaker 1: I didn't have one of those stories where my mom
Speaker 1: was missing for days, like or didn't feed me, or
Speaker 1: the lights was cut off, and she was very protective
Speaker 1: of it no matter what. So like I didn't that
Speaker 1: wasn't my story necessarily, because I know some people who
Speaker 1: are the child the child of addicts, they do have
Speaker 1: that story. But she was there, but she wasn't always present,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. And so I think because
Speaker 1: she was trying to um, you know, figure out how
Speaker 1: to come out of all the darkness she was in.
Speaker 1: I had to figure out ways to navigate around her abuse,
Speaker 1: her drug abuse. You know what I'm saying. It's like
Speaker 1: I don't know what mood you're gonna be, and I
Speaker 1: don't know what person I'm getting today. I don't know
Speaker 1: when I come home, what dynamic I'm going to find?
Speaker 1: And so that for me was where the resentment was
Speaker 1: coming from, is feeling like, man, I got to do
Speaker 1: all this, you know, I'm trying to be a kid,
Speaker 1: and it's all this seriousness and darkness kind of around us,
Speaker 1: and so, um, I think once I really talk to
Speaker 1: her about it, and we've talked throughout the years, but
Speaker 1: it definitely helped me to understand a lot of the
Speaker 1: decisions she made. Well, watching what she went through, did
Speaker 1: it like scale you away from drugs and alcohol? Oh?
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, like I've never ever tried hard
Speaker 1: drugs in my life. I don't know anybody who's done
Speaker 1: any of that. I mean that, I know I don't.
Speaker 1: I'm not on that scene. I'm not about that. I
Speaker 1: mean I smoked a little weed like here and there. Um,
Speaker 1: they had taken an edible or two like like, that's
Speaker 1: about it. Um, And I do like tequila. But knowing
Speaker 1: the history of addiction in my family has definitely made
Speaker 1: me more cognizant of some things. Did your mom forgive
Speaker 1: her mother? Did she have that opportunity to have those conversations?
Speaker 1: So they didn't They didn't get to the best place
Speaker 1: they were. There was always unconditional love. My mother loved
Speaker 1: my grandmother fiercely. But when my grandmother made the decision
Speaker 1: not to believe her about the abuse my mother suffered
Speaker 1: at the hands of her brother, it was a fracture
Speaker 1: in their relationship that never healed. And unfortunately, even when
Speaker 1: my grandmother died, like my mother was her caretaker, you know,
Speaker 1: like she regardless of whatever state their relationship was in
Speaker 1: in the moment, my mother was never going to abandon
Speaker 1: and stop loving my grandmother. And my grandmother definitely loved her,
Speaker 1: but she herself was somebody who you know, we used
Speaker 1: to have conversations about this, Like she used to tell me,
Speaker 1: like she didn't really want kids, and she felt she
Speaker 1: was a very smart woman, you know, and she was
Speaker 1: really she really wanted a career, like the kind of
Speaker 1: career I had, not necessarily a journalist, but she wanted
Speaker 1: a career. She wanted to travel the world, all these things.
Speaker 1: And she was born in nineteen twenty five, and so
Speaker 1: education for black women was not a thing in terms
Speaker 1: of people thinking that they should be educated or that
Speaker 1: there was value that as you know, during those times,
Speaker 1: I mean everything that a woman wanted to get financially
Speaker 1: or any upward mobility came through marriage. And so she
Speaker 1: was married three times and you know, she she had
Speaker 1: her three kids, but she was just in many ways
Speaker 1: trapped in a life she didn't feel like she chose.
Speaker 1: And UM, I think because of that, she wasn't the
Speaker 1: best parent to UM my mother and to um you know,
Speaker 1: my uncle that she she could have been. She struggled
Speaker 1: a lot that they got evicted a lot. My grandmother
Speaker 1: was a functional alcoholic. Like they they had some they
Speaker 1: had some trauma, some real issues. And so um she
Speaker 1: was a great grandmother to me and my mother would
Speaker 1: would still call her a great mother despite all the
Speaker 1: all the you know, troubles that they went through. But
Speaker 1: I just think that um my mother never got the
Speaker 1: grandparent I got right, you know. And I was asking,
Speaker 1: is there anything that you decided not to put in
Speaker 1: a book that she was like, you know, let's leave
Speaker 1: this out or I'm gonna take this out. Other family
Speaker 1: members are not gonna like this. I know, y'all like
Speaker 1: to hear the inside, y'all know, I know, people keep
Speaker 1: it real on here and the tea. There was one
Speaker 1: thing I cannot tell y'all. What it was. Me and
Speaker 1: my mother got into an enormous argument about this, and
Speaker 1: the thing is is that it was the only thing
Speaker 1: in the book. She was because she got an early copy,
Speaker 1: like an advanced reader copy where you can still edit
Speaker 1: and change things, and she was hot about it and
Speaker 1: we had it out. But the funny thing was, after
Speaker 1: our argument, she told, you know, some of her friends
Speaker 1: about it, and they told her she was tripping. And
Speaker 1: I had a time to think about it, reflect on it.
Speaker 1: I talked to my husband about it. And you know,
Speaker 1: the thing, when you write a memoir, you're writing about
Speaker 1: people who really exist, and so you have to be careful, truthful,
Speaker 1: but careful, you know what I'm saying. So that's why
Speaker 1: when I talk about the abortion I had used, I
Speaker 1: did not use the person's real name because I don't
Speaker 1: know if they've told that story. I don't know if
Speaker 1: his people know or what state that's in, and I
Speaker 1: didn't want to take away that opportunity from him to
Speaker 1: tell his story his own way. So with my mother,
Speaker 1: I had to think about the fact that what is
Speaker 1: this relationship going to look like after this book? And
Speaker 1: while I didn't anticipate my mother would stopped talking to
Speaker 1: me or that. But it could be a wage issue.
Speaker 1: And this is in print, you know what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: It's forever, right, So I had to really think about
Speaker 1: do I really want to do this. I can't imagine
Speaker 1: what it could be because there's so much. I tell y'all,
Speaker 1: even look your journal, you discuss that. Yeah, oh gee man?
Speaker 1: And for parents, let me ask the guys in the room,
Speaker 1: because y'all have kids. Would you read your daughter's journal
Speaker 1: if you saw it laying around? I would tell my
Speaker 1: wife you would, really because you don't want to read it. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't want to read it, but I
Speaker 1: do think I probably would read it, only because I
Speaker 1: just feel like there's certain things that we should know
Speaker 1: as parents, You know what I mean. I would definitely
Speaker 1: read it. You would definitely read it because and I would.
Speaker 1: The only reason I say yes because I've gone through
Speaker 1: the phone. Oh but that's not the same though, Yes
Speaker 1: it is. I think they could not beat you some things.
Speaker 1: It could be just you. It could be just like
Speaker 1: venting something with you know, something's bothering you that you
Speaker 1: don't talk about, and you're thinking about committing suicide or
Speaker 1: hurting yourself or hurting somebody. So if I can stop that,
Speaker 1: and maybe you hate me, but hopefully you love me
Speaker 1: later because I was able to stop that. Now, if
Speaker 1: it's something else, I mind my business and act like
Speaker 1: I didn't read it. But if it's something then you
Speaker 1: could have, you know, hurt yourself or somebody else, hurt
Speaker 1: a classmate. Well, how do you look at that, Jamil?
Speaker 1: Obviously I disagree and I got my asswhoop because of it, Okay.
Speaker 1: And And that was the thing, is that because of
Speaker 1: all the you know, tumultuousness in our life, that I
Speaker 1: needed someplace to vent. You know, I couldn't vent to
Speaker 1: my grandmother because my grandmother then that causes friction between
Speaker 1: her and my mother. I was too embarrassed to vent
Speaker 1: to my friends and let them in on the issues.
Speaker 1: Not like I could pick a teacher, because that's a
Speaker 1: double ass whooping coming right. He didn't have therapy back then,
Speaker 1: didn't have therapy. So my journal was literally that, And
Speaker 1: so there is I think that might be. That might
Speaker 1: be that's the top three frightening moment of my life.
Speaker 1: When you come home and your mother is sitting there
Speaker 1: with your journal, opening it, reading it exactly. I mean
Speaker 1: that woman. I was like, I was like, you try
Speaker 1: to kill me my strap. When she read the advanced
Speaker 1: copy of the book, did it bring you back to
Speaker 1: that moment? Oh? Like it was triggering writing it. I
Speaker 1: was just like, okay, because that's that's the worst assholee
Speaker 1: but she ever gave me in my life, like, there's
Speaker 1: nothing that comes to it was and then she, you know,
Speaker 1: years later, she was like, you know you didn't deserve them,
Speaker 1: Well can you go back in time and can you
Speaker 1: do this? But you know it was, but she it was.
Speaker 1: It was. That was one of our actually most fun
Speaker 1: conversations because there were details of that I did not remember.
Speaker 1: And I was like, that don't really sound liking me
Speaker 1: because she told me that. Um well, one she was
Speaker 1: sitting there with my journal and then she was like,
Speaker 1: let's talk about this in a I was like, oh shit,
Speaker 1: I'm never coming back smith and she said that's when
Speaker 1: I told her that I wanted to go live with
Speaker 1: my father. I was like, what would possess me to
Speaker 1: say that? You was about to get and that's why
Speaker 1: she bagged up all my ship, put it in there
Speaker 1: and took me right to his job and was like,
Speaker 1: she's all yours now, and I was like, this was
Speaker 1: a grave mistake on my part, this man. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: you know, I was able to keep a journal later
Speaker 1: as an adult, and I actually had an ex who
Speaker 1: read my journal too, And who I mean, people need
Speaker 1: to not be nosy. And I guess it's your child.
Speaker 1: I understand what they said as far as man. You
Speaker 1: know what, man, and what's your book? Um sparked a
Speaker 1: conversation that I had recently. Somebody told me a man
Speaker 1: and I was thinking about survival and like for women,
Speaker 1: and I saw like with your mom's stories of just
Speaker 1: who she was with was sometimes just for survival. You
Speaker 1: can financially correct, provide and take care of things. Somebody
Speaker 1: said to me the other day, Man, I wish I
Speaker 1: had money and could handle my business. I could date
Speaker 1: who I want to date. And I thought about that
Speaker 1: because you know, you're but there's people who end up
Speaker 1: in situations where it's like, this is a good provider.
Speaker 1: I have a family, I have children, and therefore this
Speaker 1: is a smart decision for me to be with this person.
Speaker 1: And that's something your mom actually had to do also, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, and she's very practical and so to her,
Speaker 1: those were the qualifications she was looking for in the
Speaker 1: being with somebody, especially at a certain stage in life,
Speaker 1: like her first marriage. My first stepfather, as I'd love
Speaker 1: to say to my mother, just rested her like step
Speaker 1: from the number one. But no, she did that one
Speaker 1: for love, right, that was like purely for love. And
Speaker 1: but I think after that, and certainly with some of
Speaker 1: the circumstances in our life, there was a practicality that
Speaker 1: she thought, you know, it didn't make sense to her
Speaker 1: to be with a man who could not provide for
Speaker 1: you financially. I mean, she's very old school in that way.
Speaker 1: And you know, even as my profile expanded, and you know,
Speaker 1: she would give me dating advice, like I understand that
Speaker 1: you know, your salaries published, whether true or not. And
Speaker 1: so she was one of her biggest concerns is that
Speaker 1: some man would want to be with me just because
Speaker 1: you know of my money. And you know, I told her, like,
Speaker 1: we have a totally different kind of viewpoint of those things.
Speaker 1: I was like, you know, when I get married, I
Speaker 1: want to I want to do it for love. Right.
Speaker 1: That's not to say that financial considerations are not a
Speaker 1: part of this. You know, you do have to have
Speaker 1: some common sense with it, but that can't be the provision,
Speaker 1: can't be the basis necessarily of our marriage, if that
Speaker 1: makes sense, because it's more than just financial things that
Speaker 1: you need from a person, and you know, there's emotional
Speaker 1: security that you need from that person as well, trust, nurturing, commitment,
Speaker 1: like all those other things that really don't have anything,
Speaker 1: you know, to do with money. That's what I'm always like.
Speaker 1: I always laugh because people, Um, this is obviously before
Speaker 1: I got married. They're always surprised. They were always surprised,
Speaker 1: and I wasn't, you know, dating like some athlete or
Speaker 1: somebody else. I was like, that has never been That's
Speaker 1: never been my style. But that's the point, is that
Speaker 1: you are financially able to be in love because for
Speaker 1: some women, they're like, I gotta be practical, Yeah no,
Speaker 1: and get to a space financially where you're like, I
Speaker 1: could do what I want. What. It's funny though, because
Speaker 1: I wish you know, from my mother that like she
Speaker 1: was a little less practical and was more you know.
Speaker 1: That's not to say that she was incapable of the
Speaker 1: loving aspect of a relationship, but it is to say
Speaker 1: that I think, um, you know, because of so much
Speaker 1: was robbed from her. You know, from a physical standpoint,
Speaker 1: I do think it was much harder for her to
Speaker 1: really trust any man, and so to her the provision
Speaker 1: part like, Okay, this is a tangible that I can see,
Speaker 1: that I can rely on. That's why I think that
Speaker 1: had such a high importance for her. How important I
Speaker 1: think we talked about this enough. How important is picking
Speaker 1: the right partner the right meat. How important is that
Speaker 1: into breaking generational crisis? Oh? I think it's a huge
Speaker 1: part of it. I mean, listen, between my mother, my grandmother,
Speaker 1: and my great aunt who also was no longer, no
Speaker 1: longer living, they were married eight times, eight times. And
Speaker 1: you know, there were certainly some successful marriages in my family.
Speaker 1: I did not see a lot of them growing up
Speaker 1: because even the people that were together, you know, it
Speaker 1: was like okay, come on, you know, like it was.
Speaker 1: It was definitely some turbulence that was there. And for
Speaker 1: a long time I did not want to get married.
Speaker 1: And that was because seeing how those relationships created some
Speaker 1: brokenness in them, and I was like, I don't want
Speaker 1: any part of that. If that's what that's supposed to
Speaker 1: look like, I'm good, And that's why I'm so thankful
Speaker 1: that I got married when I did, like when I
Speaker 1: was into my forties already, because by that time, having
Speaker 1: some lived experience, being at a point where I didn't
Speaker 1: need to get married certainly, Um, the only way I
Speaker 1: was going to get married if I truly wanted to
Speaker 1: be with that person. And so when I met my
Speaker 1: husband in twenty and fourteen, um, you know I wasn't looking.
Speaker 1: We met at homecoming at at Michigan State. You know,
Speaker 1: I know that. Uh of course, now we're in like
Speaker 1: HPCU homecoming sea season right now, and it's like, look
Speaker 1: at p wis with the black people? Do I say too?
Speaker 1: All right? You know, I'm not saying this as lit
Speaker 1: as Hampton. I'm not saying that n B. All Right,
Speaker 1: I get it. It is a little different, all right,
Speaker 1: but we we get we do, all right. And so
Speaker 1: I was there at Michigan State UM as the grandmar
Speaker 1: show of the homecoming parade, and I was at the
Speaker 1: Black alumni tailgate. Okay MS black alumni, ms U B
Speaker 1: a shout out. Um, I was there, and I was
Speaker 1: actually talking to a former student of mine because when
Speaker 1: I worked in Detroit at the at the Free Press,
Speaker 1: I co taught a sports writing class at Michigan State
Speaker 1: and this he was one of the students that was
Speaker 1: in my class, and so I'm talking to him and
Speaker 1: I see this like fine dude, like kind of roll up.
Speaker 1: I was like, Okay, it's like I don't know what's
Speaker 1: happening there, but I'm liking the energy. And we were
Speaker 1: just like flirting and going back and forth. But we
Speaker 1: never exchanged numbers because you know, the student I was
Speaker 1: talking to knew my husband. They were good friends. And
Speaker 1: later on that night, at the Black alumni party that
Speaker 1: they have during homecoming weekend, DJ by mc light like,
Speaker 1: I'll never forget I saw. I saw him at the party,
Speaker 1: and I was like, what are the odds that you
Speaker 1: see the fine guy that you've never seen before? And
Speaker 1: I've been coming to homecoming for a couple of years
Speaker 1: that you see him again, must be a side party. Well,
Speaker 1: but I hadn't been going to homecoming for the last
Speaker 1: couple of years, going to all the black events. I'd
Speaker 1: never seen a right and once we got to talk,
Speaker 1: and I mean, like he my home church growing up
Speaker 1: is right in his neighborhood. All my people lived in
Speaker 1: the side of Detroit that he lived on and it
Speaker 1: was a miracle. We have never run into each other,
Speaker 1: and even though he went to Michigan State, he would
Speaker 1: He's five years younger than me, so we weren't there
Speaker 1: at the same time, but we had a lot of
Speaker 1: like connections. So he came over to talk to me.
Speaker 1: He got my number, and he called me the next day,
Speaker 1: which a lot of dudes don't do anymore. You know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, like calling you right away. But the
Speaker 1: phone call, a phone call, that was the other thing
Speaker 1: that was impressive. Also impressive. I actually answered it right
Speaker 1: I was like hello, you know, and so um so
Speaker 1: yeah that and the rest was kind of history, as
Speaker 1: they say, and we had our first date a couple
Speaker 1: of weeks later. Just so happened. I was going to
Speaker 1: um Orange County in California for a work conference for
Speaker 1: ESPN and then his company happens to be headquartered in
Speaker 1: Orange County and he was going to be there for business.
Speaker 1: God did and just so, what you're going there too? No,
Speaker 1: we were just talking on the phone and he was like,
Speaker 1: wait a minute, I'm gonna be there too, and so
Speaker 1: uh he he came over to my hotel and um,
Speaker 1: we hung out, had some drinks and uh, you know,
Speaker 1: he uh stayed overnight. Nothing happened. Let me just say
Speaker 1: this because I see where y'all mind is going. Nothing happened,
Speaker 1: And I thought, like when he didn't, even when I did,
Speaker 1: nothing happened. Well, you're right, let me let me work,
Speaker 1: let me let me clarify. No sex happened, Okay, right,
Speaker 1: and yeah we did kiss, but you know, we just slept.
Speaker 1: And uh. The next day, I thought, man, as soon
Speaker 1: as daylight here, this dude's gonna be out of here.
Speaker 1: And but he wasn't. He was like, he was like,
Speaker 1: let's go to breakfast. I finding a liar that he's
Speaker 1: out there recording it. But you han't heard your story.
Speaker 1: You haven't read the move, like you haven't heard the
Speaker 1: old I know, right, I think he went to breakfast.
Speaker 1: I think he just want to see if if I
Speaker 1: if I tell some various you know, some different versions details,
Speaker 1: you know, or whatever, he puts a little more sauce
Speaker 1: on when we first met than I do. But that
Speaker 1: is the truthful version of what happened. Now. You talk
Speaker 1: about in the book about your experiences growing up in Detroit.
Speaker 1: But what I want to know is how hard is
Speaker 1: it to let go of the Detroit in you when
Speaker 1: you're in these corporate environments. How much Detroit do you need? Well?
Speaker 1: Of course, when I see somebody from Detroit, you knows,
Speaker 1: you know, Jayleen Rose worked at ESPN. We see each other,
Speaker 1: we're like, what up? Th right? Okay? Um, you know what,
Speaker 1: the Detroit of me will never leave. And I don't
Speaker 1: think that's a bad thing. That doesn't mean that you're
Speaker 1: in meetings and corporate environments having to cuss people out
Speaker 1: or do anything like that. But you know, you let
Speaker 1: people know you have a boundary and that you expect
Speaker 1: to be respected. And I think the parts of Detroit
Speaker 1: that are in me are parts that are that have
Speaker 1: just done wondrous things for my life. You know, Detroit,
Speaker 1: Angel knows this. Detroit is is a tough city. It's
Speaker 1: a resilience city. It's also a city where you know,
Speaker 1: we take a lot of pride and being from there.
Speaker 1: Don't nobody put off for Detroit like people from Detroit
Speaker 1: exactly like all of that. Yeah, that's that's a part
Speaker 1: of who we are. And so that's why in my
Speaker 1: social media bio, I say that you know, I was
Speaker 1: raised in Detroit. Grew up at Michigan State, Like Detroit
Speaker 1: is going to always run hot and heavy through my blood.
Speaker 1: And also a little philosophy aspect the fact that we
Speaker 1: wear meat coachs to the movies like now you never
Speaker 1: take the Detroit and the education that you got there,
Speaker 1: I think was incredible just to hear, because I feel
Speaker 1: like that shaped a lot of who you are today
Speaker 1: just being from there, but also the school that you
Speaker 1: went to, and then the mentor is not or people
Speaker 1: that actually encouraged you to try different things because a
Speaker 1: lot of kids don't have that. Yeah, I mean, listen,
Speaker 1: there were so many pivotal points in my life where
Speaker 1: just a seed planted by somebody, just the word that
Speaker 1: got me to the next step that I was supposed
Speaker 1: to get to, that encouraged me to kind of keep going.
Speaker 1: And you know, Detroit I was. I was largely with
Speaker 1: the exception of two or three years, a public high school,
Speaker 1: a public education student. You know, I went to public
Speaker 1: elementary school. I went to a public middle school. You know,
Speaker 1: both mean middle school, went to Mumford. So I graduated
Speaker 1: from high school. And it's another reason why public education
Speaker 1: is very important to me. I was lucky because Detroit
Speaker 1: gave me a firm sense of my identity. You know,
Speaker 1: it was a city I think now it might currently
Speaker 1: be the blackest city in America because it's eighty five
Speaker 1: percent black. When I was growing up, it was over
Speaker 1: a million people lived in Detroit. It was like ninety
Speaker 1: percent black. You know, you don't have to have first
Speaker 1: Fridays in Detroit. It was called going to the grocery store.
Speaker 1: You know, you will sound a little different, you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: now it isn't, but back then it wasn't. It wasn't
Speaker 1: like that. It was still ours, if you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. And so having black teachers, having black teachers
Speaker 1: throughout my entire you know, schooling, like those were important
Speaker 1: identity moments. You know. I didn't have to go out
Speaker 1: of my way to learn about black history. My teachers
Speaker 1: just taught it. It was just a part of the curriculum.
Speaker 1: You know. I took African American history classes at Mumford,
Speaker 1: So it was just like that was nothing new. And
Speaker 1: so to go from that environment and then to go
Speaker 1: to Michigan State, you know, forty thousand students, eighty percent
Speaker 1: of them white, probably more than that, it was like
Speaker 1: quite a culture shock for me. But I was so
Speaker 1: glad to have had that experience of growing up in
Speaker 1: Detroit because that allowed me to always have pride in
Speaker 1: my identity and you know, to kind of carry that
Speaker 1: with me wherever I went. You know That's why I laugh.
Speaker 1: And I'm sure V you probably get this when people
Speaker 1: say going to a HBCU is not the real world.
Speaker 1: I was like, no, you need to be rooted in
Speaker 1: who you are because whatever environment you step into, you
Speaker 1: cannot let it change who you are or let them
Speaker 1: tell you who you are. And even going to Michigan State,
Speaker 1: you weren't even fathoming that you could have white roommates. Nah,
Speaker 1: I mean it was. It was wild because but it
Speaker 1: was some of the racial conversations we used to have them.
Speaker 1: Good God, thank god nobody had a phone because they
Speaker 1: would be like what but you know, my my suite
Speaker 1: mates at the time they were they were from Sterling Heights, Michigan,
Speaker 1: and we used to call it growing up Sterling whites
Speaker 1: right because it was because it was it was that
Speaker 1: white right, And um, you know they didn't even they
Speaker 1: didn't they had no idea who Malcolm X was. Wow.
Speaker 1: They they were like we we get Martin Luther King juniors. Uh,
Speaker 1: we get a day off of that. They had no idea,
Speaker 1: Like they were like, nah, I think we were at school.
Speaker 1: I was like, that can't be the case. It's a
Speaker 1: natural all the day. They just didn't know. They didn't
Speaker 1: have any exposure to black people outside of listening to
Speaker 1: the chronic Like they really didn't like they didn't know
Speaker 1: anything and so, um, But in fairness, I didn't know
Speaker 1: a whole lot about white people there, so other you know,
Speaker 1: obviously I knew way more history about white people than
Speaker 1: they knew about you know, black people. But in terms
Speaker 1: of just being around white people, Um, I didn't have
Speaker 1: that much experience with that. So it was great and
Speaker 1: we're still friends of this day that we were able to, um,
Speaker 1: you know, learn from each other. But you know, there
Speaker 1: was some Michigan State, like I mean that was a
Speaker 1: place where you know, I really came into my own
Speaker 1: and grew up. But in terms of you know, having
Speaker 1: just real up close experiences with racism that all, you know,
Speaker 1: a lot of that started and happened there. Can you
Speaker 1: talk about you know, you talk about how what your
Speaker 1: mother taught you about black conservatives? About my article in
Speaker 1: the Atlantic. So you know, my mother is she is
Speaker 1: a deep sense of her faith. Um, she's a Christian
Speaker 1: and or a believer, you know, as she likes to
Speaker 1: put it. And because of her religious background or because
Speaker 1: of her faith, I'm gonna use a term religion. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, she is certain conservative principles that she has. Now,
Speaker 1: some of these principles are outside of faith, because you know,
Speaker 1: the one thing that's hilarious to me about you know, Republicans,
Speaker 1: is that they want to always label black people liberal,
Speaker 1: and y'all know, and having conversations, especially with some elders,
Speaker 1: the black people like the conservative as hell from the
Speaker 1: South exactly, especially those from from the South. And so
Speaker 1: the black people don't have a problem with conservatives, We
Speaker 1: got a problem with racism. That's those are totally you know,
Speaker 1: different things. And so my mother, you know, she's old school,
Speaker 1: and especially you know, with her being a believer, she
Speaker 1: does not believe in abortion, and there's other ideals that
Speaker 1: she has that we clash on because clearly that's not
Speaker 1: where I'm coming from. And but I think her her
Speaker 1: being that way has really given me insight about conservatives too.
Speaker 1: It's particularly those that tie it to their Christian faith,
Speaker 1: and so that's informed a lot of my opinions and
Speaker 1: even how I write about those issues when I'm attacking
Speaker 1: conservative suitially, this era, this Trump conservative, it is totally
Speaker 1: different than the ones from back in the day. I
Speaker 1: think they it's definitely different. But you know, as I
Speaker 1: write about it in the book, there were things about
Speaker 1: Trump that appealed to my mother definitely. And I know
Speaker 1: that seems strange to say about, you know, a sixty something,
Speaker 1: your whole black woman from Detroit, but she she liked
Speaker 1: the macho shit. I mean, she liked the tough talk
Speaker 1: and the whole generation is soft like that fed right
Speaker 1: into a lot of the things that she believes, you know.
Speaker 1: And um, and she also watched him on The Apprentice.
Speaker 1: So yeah, but yeah, I mean so I think while
Speaker 1: these Trump Conservatives are markedly different, markedly more dangerous, Um,
Speaker 1: there are some core principles they have that frankly, Republicans
Speaker 1: have always had. He didn't invent a lot of the
Speaker 1: things that he's done. He perfected some of them. But
Speaker 1: you know, when you look back at Ronald Reagan's presidency,
Speaker 1: you see a lot a lot of similarities. He evokes
Speaker 1: a lot of those talking plans, he totally does. Well,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna touch on a few things without telling everything,
Speaker 1: but chapter eight, Free Press Don't Raise No Punks a
Speaker 1: little bit. So that m title came from a very
Speaker 1: fun night that I had when I was covering Michigan
Speaker 1: State basketball. They had just beaten Kentucky in the Elite
Speaker 1: Eight and we're on their way to their first Final
Speaker 1: Four since Magic took them in seventy nine. So this
Speaker 1: is back in nineteen ninety nine, and you know, I
Speaker 1: mean Michigan State because they were good. They had a
Speaker 1: lot of media coverage, a lot of Detroit media outlets
Speaker 1: and Michigan media outlets that were following them. And so
Speaker 1: after the game, you know, we know we headed to
Speaker 1: the Final four, so we all went out to just
Speaker 1: hang out, get some drinks, and somehow we just started
Speaker 1: doing tequila shot after tequila shot after tequila shot, and
Speaker 1: I might have been four or five in easy and
Speaker 1: somebody was like, oh, we doing one more round, and
Speaker 1: most people tapped out. I was like, I ain't tapping out.
Speaker 1: Free Press don't raise no Punks, and they never let
Speaker 1: me forget that. So so for years, when I was
Speaker 1: on the beat, every time I ran into another reporter
Speaker 1: who was there that night. They'd be like Free Press
Speaker 1: raised bunks like y'all. So that is where that title
Speaker 1: came from. Interesting that you didn't realize your voice, how
Speaker 1: it could be so polarizing for certain people, right to
Speaker 1: write an article and then to get responses where people
Speaker 1: are even threatening you. Yeah, and at such a young
Speaker 1: age too, No, I mean that started like I started
Speaker 1: getting hate nailed back at Michigan State. I mean the
Speaker 1: first time I was called a nigger was at Michigan State, right,
Speaker 1: And unfortunately, because I did have that experience there, had
Speaker 1: it at the Free Press. Every place I worked, Orlando Riley,
Speaker 1: I was called a racial slur. Every place I was
Speaker 1: either told to um, you know, I was either called
Speaker 1: a racial slur, told to go back to Africa or
Speaker 1: go right for Cosmo. It was gonna be one of
Speaker 1: those three. And so Woman's Magazine. Yeah, you don't even
Speaker 1: think about the gender. No, So every every time I
Speaker 1: had been told that, and so by the time it
Speaker 1: started happening at ESPN, and especially after um what I
Speaker 1: said about Donald Trump, I was I had already been
Speaker 1: through it. So it wasn't nearly effective. The problem is
Speaker 1: with the Trump thing, like that took it to a
Speaker 1: whole new level. You know. I had certainly faced hate
Speaker 1: before my career and even gotten a couple of death threats.
Speaker 1: That was different, you know, And when I was at
Speaker 1: ESPN and that happened, it was just like, um, the
Speaker 1: mobs of mail, like, you know, you real racist when
Speaker 1: you take the time out to write somebody a letter
Speaker 1: calling them a nigger, among many other things. I was like,
Speaker 1: damn that too. You had to put a stamp on
Speaker 1: this Facebook message, Like that's fast, Like you know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying, that's that old school racism. They like they
Speaker 1: took time out of their day to make sure you
Speaker 1: have to hold back talking about everything at ESPN too.
Speaker 1: But in the book, yeah, um, you know what there was.
Speaker 1: I don't think I held back, but I think there
Speaker 1: are parts of that story that, you know, frankly, didn't
Speaker 1: really go with the whole narrative of what There's a
Speaker 1: whole lot of incidents I could have certainly talked about,
Speaker 1: but it's like it just didn't make sense in terms
Speaker 1: of the storytelling rhythm. I wanted to go. Plus, you know,
Speaker 1: ESPN was a chapter in my life. It wasn't my
Speaker 1: whole life, and I realized that a lot of people
Speaker 1: made buy this memoir because they're looking for the ESPN
Speaker 1: dirt and gossip. I was honest. I'm sure there are
Speaker 1: some people at ESPN that probably don't like some of
Speaker 1: the things that I put in there, but it is
Speaker 1: what it is. He were very honest. You said you
Speaker 1: were embarrassed it in there while they were he was
Speaker 1: reading verbatim what you see, oh Man talking about the
Speaker 1: former president of ESPN, John Skipper, who is still a
Speaker 1: friend of mine. You know, we went through a rough
Speaker 1: period after the Donald Trump incident, and you know, as
Speaker 1: I write about, the most disappointing part about all of that,
Speaker 1: it wasn't what the president said. It wasn't the reaction,
Speaker 1: it wasn't the death threat. The most disappointing part of
Speaker 1: that was that when he called me out, when the
Speaker 1: White House said that I should be fired, ESPN did
Speaker 1: not have my back. That was it. Because there's a
Speaker 1: code in journalism, for sure, and every newspaper I ever
Speaker 1: worked for it. I fully believe that that happened while
Speaker 1: I was at that paper. They would have put out
Speaker 1: a statement right away saying, now, you may not like
Speaker 1: what she said, but she wanted to us because that's
Speaker 1: the whole that's the whole tenet of a free press, right.
Speaker 1: It's like, you're supposed to be protected from government, you know, persecution.
Speaker 1: And there's so many examples in the history of journalism
Speaker 1: of where newspapers and out let's have done exactly that,
Speaker 1: Like when city Hall comes after your reporter, it's understood,
Speaker 1: you got your reporters back. And when ESPN didn't do
Speaker 1: that and just let me twist and let me fry,
Speaker 1: I I was mad. I was disappointed. Honestly, I was hurt.
Speaker 1: I had been there eleven years at that point. I'm like,
Speaker 1: we got to be better than this. And one of
Speaker 1: the you know, one of the healing aspects of my
Speaker 1: relationship with Skipper, like when we met the day before
Speaker 1: I was coming off suspension and we went to have breakfast.
Speaker 1: He apologized to me then and said he was sorry.
Speaker 1: He said if there was one regret he had, it
Speaker 1: was that he should have said something after Trump or
Speaker 1: former Press Secretary Sarah Huckaby Sanders said something about me.
Speaker 1: Did he tell you the truth too? About how you
Speaker 1: know a lot of those networker jets were afraid that
Speaker 1: Trump wouldn't clear the Fox Disney merger. No, he actually didn't.
Speaker 1: He didn't tell me that is that, like the equivalent
Speaker 1: of Bill Cosby was by NBC, or that was actually true,
Speaker 1: Like people were afraid that he wasn't going to approve
Speaker 1: the merger between Fox Disney. I forgot who else it was. Well,
Speaker 1: I think a part of it, you know, at that point,
Speaker 1: if y'all remember in twenty seventeen, when you know, those
Speaker 1: tweets happened and I got in the crosshairs at the president.
Speaker 1: At ESPN was at a very interesting juncture, like they
Speaker 1: were being called too political, two left, liberal leaning and
Speaker 1: you know, which I thought in many ways was just
Speaker 1: coded racism, because suddenly you see a new emergence of
Speaker 1: faces at ESPN. You know, you had Stephen A. Smith
Speaker 1: becoming the face of the network. You had Me, you
Speaker 1: had Michael Smith, you had Bamonte Jones, all these Sarah Spain,
Speaker 1: Kate Fagan, like all these different new diverse voices that
Speaker 1: were that had major platforms, you know, Dan Lebotard. So
Speaker 1: suddenly you see a mix up in terms of what
Speaker 1: the talent looks like at ESPN, and then all of
Speaker 1: a sudden, they too political and too liberal, you know,
Speaker 1: because people often white America, just our presence to them
Speaker 1: is political. Our presence to them is liberal. We're reminding
Speaker 1: them of something just by sitting here. We could say
Speaker 1: nothing political at all, and they was where we were political.
Speaker 1: So that's why I used to get so pissed when
Speaker 1: Mike and I were doing Sports Center and they used
Speaker 1: to call our show political. We never talked about politics.
Speaker 1: They acted like when they turned to Sports Center, we
Speaker 1: were breaking down immigration reform that like never happened. And
Speaker 1: we got sick of talking about Colin Kaepernick, not because
Speaker 1: his story was important, but we had producers that every
Speaker 1: time a quarterback was signed would come runner that's like,
Speaker 1: yall want to talk about Colin Kaepernick. I was like, no,
Speaker 1: we don't. Like we said what we said, Like it's
Speaker 1: already been established that the NFL is not going to
Speaker 1: let him back into playing football. And so people were
Speaker 1: trying to create a narrative around our show just because
Speaker 1: we were are black as ourselves on TV. And that was,
Speaker 1: you know, really a difficult period to go through as
Speaker 1: you're trying to get a new show off the ground,
Speaker 1: trying to find your footing and all of this noise
Speaker 1: and narrative is around the show about it not being
Speaker 1: too political and Mike and I are racists, and they
Speaker 1: started calling us Wolke Center like that was some that
Speaker 1: was something that was some bullshit, Like it really was.
Speaker 1: I finally hilarious that ESPN had to turn right back around, though,
Speaker 1: and they had. They couldn't run from the fact that
Speaker 1: there was an intersectionality between politics, social issues and sports. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just I think they went through a
Speaker 1: period of time where they just didn't have the stomach
Speaker 1: for the fight, and especially when it came to me
Speaker 1: and our show, that when you had all these right
Speaker 1: wing publications, media outlets writing about us all the time,
Speaker 1: you know, whenever we discussed anything that was you know,
Speaker 1: remotely close to race or you know, anything that came
Speaker 1: up within the you know, the realm of sports, they
Speaker 1: just didn't want any part of that. And um, you know,
Speaker 1: their relationship with the NFL was a little tenuous, and
Speaker 1: so I think they kind of took a cowardly way
Speaker 1: out for a little while. And so when they hired
Speaker 1: you know, our friend Angela Rye, and they seemed to
Speaker 1: be ready to re engage in those conversations particularly after
Speaker 1: George Floyd. I was. I was mostly happy for my
Speaker 1: former colleagues because I know that a lot of them
Speaker 1: had a lot of things they wanted to say and
Speaker 1: didn't feel the comfort or safety to say them. And um,
Speaker 1: seeing the company gonna reverse course a little bit, I
Speaker 1: think was helpful for them so that they could join
Speaker 1: the dialogue before we got to ask a couple of
Speaker 1: sports questions. One more thing about the book. Then chapter
Speaker 1: five you pay homage to Judy Bloom with that title
Speaker 1: you did go it's me you gotta see you know,
Speaker 1: man Beverley clearly and Judi Judy Blue got me through. Man.
Speaker 1: I don't know Dan Danie right, you know? But shoot,
Speaker 1: the way people are acting about this book, Man and
Speaker 1: Judie Bloom might be bad right now. I have no idea.
Speaker 1: Are you never? God is me? Margaret might not be anymore?
Speaker 1: You know? It feel like young adult novels are so
Speaker 1: important too. Yeah, no, because I think about all the things.
Speaker 1: I even used to read them, Sweet Valley High books.
Speaker 1: I used to read Sweet Valley High, to Choose your
Speaker 1: Own Adventure, like to Love Choose Aventure like those are.
Speaker 1: Remember when Netflix did that Black Mirror episode, It choose
Speaker 1: you on adventure. I have never seen black Mirror. Really no,
Speaker 1: they got to choose your own adventure black Mirror Interactive.
Speaker 1: Like that's is great, all right, I gotta peep that
Speaker 1: my sports question. Oh got Draymond Green Jordan Pool? Draymond
Speaker 1: Greens punches him in the face? Can Jordan pools? They
Speaker 1: did and play comfortably there? Well, And I think this
Speaker 1: is this was evident before this m incident, just because
Speaker 1: the state that they, you know, go to state is
Speaker 1: in in terms of their finances. I mean, that's a
Speaker 1: hell of check that don't have to write in luxury
Speaker 1: taxes alone. If they decide to resign Draymond, give him
Speaker 1: a new deal rather, and so I think it was
Speaker 1: probably trending toward him not being there anyway. And you know,
Speaker 1: I know Draymond um good dude. I know people have
Speaker 1: polarizing opinions about him. That was a bad moment obviously. Now.
Speaker 1: The only thing I debated with people who called it
Speaker 1: a sucker punch. That was not a sucker punch, right, Like,
Speaker 1: it's just there's an aggressive moment that's happening. And I
Speaker 1: know that's your teammate, and people are like, oh, but
Speaker 1: you know he should have recognized as his teammate and
Speaker 1: he wasn't expecting to punch. Have you seen family members fight? Yes,
Speaker 1: I certainly have, right, So, Um, I just think that
Speaker 1: was a really bad moment for him. I think he
Speaker 1: recognizes that. I think he is honestly remorseful. But I
Speaker 1: don't see them coexisting. Jordan Pools should aduct because here's
Speaker 1: the thing. If you push somebody that hard, you gotta
Speaker 1: expect something is coming back, right Yeah, Um, I mean
Speaker 1: this is this is not Jordan's Poole's fault at all,
Speaker 1: but I think because of the finances, he won't be there. Yeah.
Speaker 1: You know, I was on the fence at first because
Speaker 1: I was like, I don't know, because this might be
Speaker 1: one of those oh no, because of this incident, because
Speaker 1: this might want to be one of those things that
Speaker 1: like early in the season, there's certainly, you know, some
Speaker 1: momentum that you have now, but the season drags on,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know. I don't know how they
Speaker 1: respond and are able to play when you have that
Speaker 1: big of a issue. That's kind of right there. But
Speaker 1: these guys are veterans. I think they're hungry. I think
Speaker 1: they kind of know it's their last stand, so I
Speaker 1: do I expect them to repeat as well. Ben Simmons
Speaker 1: Russell Westbrook. What's the question? I mean, who's better? You know,
Speaker 1: it's the one word that comes to your mind. Do
Speaker 1: you think Ben sim miss But you know, honestly, I
Speaker 1: feel really bad for Russell Westbrook because you know, especially no, no, no,
Speaker 1: I mean Ben Simmons. I think he's not as bad
Speaker 1: as people think, you know. And and what you hate
Speaker 1: to see is when you look at an athlete and
Speaker 1: you could tell psychologically something's going on, you know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying, And it's just it feels like criticizing him.
Speaker 1: And this is not to say that he doesn't deserve,
Speaker 1: you know, some criticism, but it just feels like he's
Speaker 1: mentally worn out. That's what he seems like to me.
Speaker 1: Russell Westbrook is the same thing is that because Russell
Speaker 1: it's clearly frustrated. I don't Russell doesn't want to play
Speaker 1: this shitty like he doesn't want to do that. But now,
Speaker 1: and this is the gift and curse of playing with Lebron.
Speaker 1: It's never gonna be Lebron's fault. I'm not saying it is,
Speaker 1: but the people that play around Lebron. Remember how the
Speaker 1: people used to be on Chris Bosh all the time,
Speaker 1: like it's always somebody that when they play with them,
Speaker 1: that becomes the target for all the frustration over you know, losing,
Speaker 1: over all of this. And it's Russell Westbrook. They have
Speaker 1: made him the villain of the team. And I'm not
Speaker 1: talking about the organization itself, but fans, you know, and
Speaker 1: he's clearly struggling. I kind of agree with what Charles
Speaker 1: Barkley said. I don't really see the joy in his
Speaker 1: game like I used to. Like, he's certainly still a
Speaker 1: great athlete, but you'd be crazy not to think it's
Speaker 1: not mentally wearing on him that he's not thinking about
Speaker 1: this every time he takes a shot. The fact that
Speaker 1: the fans are boring him. It reminds me of when
Speaker 1: Josh Smith played in Atlanta and every time he took
Speaker 1: up three point in the crowd be like no, it's
Speaker 1: like I feel like I hear that. And every time
Speaker 1: Russell like takes a shot, like people are mad, right,
Speaker 1: And so to play like that in your hometown, right,
Speaker 1: and that's that's the vibe. You can't tell me that
Speaker 1: that mentally that wouldn't break you a little bit. That's
Speaker 1: interesting because I feel like Ben is mental and Russ
Speaker 1: is just physical like us. Because Rust still out that
Speaker 1: energy and my confidence. I just don't know if he's
Speaker 1: physically able to play the way he used to. I
Speaker 1: mean I sensed the I sense certainly the energy. I
Speaker 1: don't mean to make it sound like he's mailed an
Speaker 1: innard like that, but it's like a joy that comes
Speaker 1: to playing with basketball, and it doesn't feel like he's
Speaker 1: playing with a lot of joy. That's how no cowboy questions.
Speaker 1: I thought I was gonna get some New York Giants.
Speaker 1: I think the Giants look good, you know. I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm sure Daniel Jones is thinking about how he got
Speaker 1: slandered when they made that pick, and definitely the last
Speaker 1: couple of years, but they didn't have as good of
Speaker 1: a team, I think because they have now love Brian
Speaker 1: day Ball, like you know it definitely one of those
Speaker 1: coaches I've been watching for a while, and so he
Speaker 1: felt he felt like he would be a good fit
Speaker 1: for this team. So look New York Football Jet saying Giants.
Speaker 1: You know Robert Salat like he was, I'm forty nine
Speaker 1: Ers fan. He was happening. By the way, I always
Speaker 1: wonder about as as she's gonna be Allians fan. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I listen, I value my mental health and that was
Speaker 1: That's what you're talking about all the time, right, It's
Speaker 1: like mental health as wealth. For my mental health. I
Speaker 1: was never Alliance fan. And it's crazy because my husband's
Speaker 1: a huge Lions fan. He was at the Cowboys game.
Speaker 1: And uh no, I mean so my mother, as y'all
Speaker 1: know from being the book, you know, she spent some
Speaker 1: time in Oakland, um, you know, and that's where I
Speaker 1: was I think conceived, okay, and so because of that,
Speaker 1: she liked the forty nine ers, and so you know,
Speaker 1: she would root for the Lions and for the forty
Speaker 1: nine ers. She really liked Joe Montana. That was like
Speaker 1: one of her favorite players. And so I just you know,
Speaker 1: they were winning and went with that team. Why would
Speaker 1: you not go with the winning team? Right? So it's like, well, greted.
Speaker 1: You grew up in South Carolina, so y'all didn't have
Speaker 1: your own NFL team, and a lot of a lot
Speaker 1: of black fans that were not in um NFL cities
Speaker 1: were Cowboys fan. Even something that words like in DC
Speaker 1: you know, it's kind of a not so quiet secret.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of Cowboys fans in DC, right and
Speaker 1: so at any rate, so I just became a fortey
Speaker 1: nine Ers fan. I've been with him, um, you know,
Speaker 1: ever since. But Robert Sali was like a great coach
Speaker 1: for US. So I when he was going through that
Speaker 1: last year with the Jets, I was like, this dude
Speaker 1: about to shout. He about to show them because he's
Speaker 1: got the he gets players to buy in, certainly from
Speaker 1: a schematic standpoint, like he's a really good coach. What
Speaker 1: about the cow Girls. I mean, offense still look a
Speaker 1: little rough, Shore do look a little rough. But that defense,
Speaker 1: it's a championship level defense. And this was the kind
Speaker 1: of defense I wish Tony Romo would have had. You know,
Speaker 1: that's that that's no, in no way a shot at
Speaker 1: Dak Prescott. But people like to as you know, um,
Speaker 1: they like to hate on Tony Robo, but they forget
Speaker 1: that he had categorically some of the worst defenses in
Speaker 1: NFL history. And I was like, damn, if they've had
Speaker 1: this defense with him, y'all might have won it. Y'all
Speaker 1: might have won a couple, but it didn't Giants got
Speaker 1: the second best record in the league. You know who
Speaker 1: beat them? No, here we go, y'all go through this
Speaker 1: on the Daily Show. You know we beat the Giants, right,
Speaker 1: the third best thing. But I like the Cowboys, but
Speaker 1: you know I'm picking them over the forty n Right.
Speaker 1: You know we're going to bowl the shit when championships.
Speaker 1: We know, we know that in San Francisco. That's why
Speaker 1: we had to come to Dallas last year. Give y'all
Speaker 1: a peace. Okay, we appreciate you for you go get
Speaker 1: up Hills all right now much. I appreciate y'all. Oh,
Speaker 1: and I just wanted to say one last thing about
Speaker 1: Jamil Hill. When I announced my show, she called me
Speaker 1: in the middle of the night from Portugal. You're in Portugal. No,
Speaker 1: I wasn't in Portugal, but I was. I was somewhere
Speaker 1: out of the country. Was I in France? Maybe I
Speaker 1: was in south of France hanging with this dude said remember, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: you were here. Okay, so maybe I was, but I
Speaker 1: was gone. She was gone. I went on the night.
Speaker 1: She was like, I just want to say congratulations. I
Speaker 1: was like that, it's so nice. Yeah, No, July, I'm
Speaker 1: really proud of you for doing your thing. And as
Speaker 1: I wrote in the note to you in the in
Speaker 1: the book, is that you um you know the agency
Speaker 1: you betting on yourself. Like that's very not just admirable,
Speaker 1: but it's very inspiring for somebody like me who throughout
Speaker 1: this this season of my career, that's what I've done.
Speaker 1: It's like better myself. So I love seeing other women
Speaker 1: do um. You know the same thing, y'all. Get on,
Speaker 1: my girl. Let me tell you something. I was late.
Speaker 1: They were v with stressed because he had to do
Speaker 1: my job. Because you want me to leave. Thank you.
Speaker 1: Get up Hill, Jamal Hill her memoirs out right now.
Speaker 1: It's right. I'm trying to be a best seller, y'all. Oh,