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Speaker 1: I was like everybody at this point, I was like

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Speaker 1: that man losing bags quick for no reason. Just self

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Speaker 1: inflicted man, self inflicted. Okay, thank you. It's really been

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Speaker 1: the year self sabotage. I think he's the leader in

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Speaker 1: the clubhouse though her self Sabota is yeah, yeah, if

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Speaker 1: you look it up in the dictionary, absolutely absolutely. Here

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Speaker 1: we go, y'all, morning, everybody in DJ Envy Angela yee

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Speaker 1: charlote and the guy. We are to breakfast club. We

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Speaker 1: got a special guests in the building. She's got a

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Speaker 1: new book out her uphill, her memoir. That's right. Great picture,

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Speaker 1: by the way, thank you. How many of these did

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Speaker 1: you have to pick through before you landed on this week?

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Speaker 1: You know what? And this is gonna sound far more

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Speaker 1: delicious than I actually mean it, But that was from

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Speaker 1: a Playboy shoot. I did what Yeah, So how did

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Speaker 1: you Playboy? Yeah? Because Playboy, um reading for the articles

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Speaker 1: is good writing, it's very good writing. And Playboy every

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Speaker 1: let me see with pictures on the back. But they

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Speaker 1: did a feature on me um at some point. I

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Speaker 1: think it was earlier this year. And so the photo shoot, Uh,

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Speaker 1: the photographer I think believe his name is Eric Carter.

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Speaker 1: He's based out of la He took some phenomenal photos.

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Speaker 1: So because during covid um, you know, we couldn't really

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Speaker 1: work out how to you know, get new photos taken.

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Speaker 1: So I was like, I love these from the Playboy shoot.

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Speaker 1: I play a joke on the husband and be like, hey,

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Speaker 1: I'm doing a shoot with Playboy. Oh I totally did.

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Speaker 1: Like that was just like I'm gonna being Playboy. He

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Speaker 1: was like, what anymore? No, I don't think so. I

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Speaker 1: think it's like a more of a you know, content

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Speaker 1: or they've always had good articles and player I'm serious. Listen,

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Speaker 1: Alex Hayley wrote for Playboy. Okay, so like, I don't

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Speaker 1: think anybody ever went to Playboy for the articles you're

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Speaker 1: telling on yourself right now. But that's okay. I love

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Speaker 1: to tite a little book to uphill and I'm is

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Speaker 1: a play on your last name, of course, but I

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Speaker 1: mean it actually isn't. It's not And it was not

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Speaker 1: my title idea. This was not the original title that

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Speaker 1: I wanted that came in third uh. No, the original

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Speaker 1: title I wanted was Broken Curses because I talked a

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Speaker 1: lot about my family history, family trauma and all of

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Speaker 1: that and my mother. And I'm sure you know, you

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Speaker 1: guys have heard this before from elders or from your

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Speaker 1: parents or uncles or whatever. But the fact that there

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Speaker 1: are generational curses and my mother used to talk about,

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Speaker 1: you know, breaking those in our family. And so that's

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Speaker 1: why I wanted to name in Broken Curses. But my

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Speaker 1: publisher they thought it was a little too negative, that

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Speaker 1: it wasn't uplifting enough. And my book editor, Shannon shout

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Speaker 1: out to you, Shannon, she came up with that title.

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Speaker 1: Up you okay, And I said, to you, the chosen

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Speaker 1: one said it because honestly, you talk about your mom

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Speaker 1: and the things that she's been through and your whole family,

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Speaker 1: and it's a lot, and so how did she feel about,

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Speaker 1: you know, these stories being told. So I talked to

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Speaker 1: my mother, but we had numerous conversations about what was

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Speaker 1: going to be in this book, and she knew what

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Speaker 1: I was doing in the journey that I was on

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Speaker 1: and writing it, and knew that I wanted to write

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Speaker 1: it transparently. But honestly, Angel, that was probably the most

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Speaker 1: difficult part because I was I was in the unfortunate

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Speaker 1: position of asking my mother about the worst moments of

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Speaker 1: her life, and I tried to save those conversations for last,

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Speaker 1: if you will, so that we could talk about maybe

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Speaker 1: happier things and fund memories, just to kind of not

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Speaker 1: come from a traumatic, you know, perspective. And so it

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Speaker 1: was tough. I mean, my mother told me some stories

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Speaker 1: I did not even know. You know, the story that

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Speaker 1: I tell in the book about her, Okay, but you know,

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Speaker 1: I guess it's an example of a story. But the

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Speaker 1: story I tell them the book about how one of

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Speaker 1: her low points during her addiction was being, you know,

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Speaker 1: caught in this drug house and having to hide out

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Speaker 1: from drug dealers in that house on the floor, on

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Speaker 1: a rat infestive floor. I didn't even know that story

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Speaker 1: until she told me, because that happened when I was

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Speaker 1: in college. I was so scared with that part. It

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Speaker 1: was underneath those dirty clothes, rats running around, yep, Andy,

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Speaker 1: and I thought they was gonna steal her car while

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Speaker 1: she was inside. Uh well, her her car, as I

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Speaker 1: tell did eventually get stolen, you know, um and uh

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Speaker 1: it was nothing she could do about it, but it

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Speaker 1: was where she was at the time that was stolen,

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Speaker 1: at what she was doing. How did you feel having

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Speaker 1: those conversations with your mom because I had to be emotional.

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Speaker 1: I was reading some of that stuff that she went through,

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Speaker 1: and I was like in tears, Um it was. It

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Speaker 1: was difficult, and but I think for her it was

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Speaker 1: cathartic because these are traumatic incidents that you know, during

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Speaker 1: the time after she was you know, sexually abused, and

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Speaker 1: as I telling the book, she was the victim of

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Speaker 1: a violent rape. You know, people weren't going to therapy then,

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Speaker 1: like that wasn't suggested and as you know, Charlemagne from

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Speaker 1: your working mental health in our community, that was something

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Speaker 1: we didn't do. So imagine going through all of that

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Speaker 1: with no therapy. And that's why, as I discussed in

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Speaker 1: the book, she was going through very severe PTSD and

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Speaker 1: did not know it because that wasn't a term then

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Speaker 1: that we even were familiar with. And so, yeah, those

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Speaker 1: are those are difficult conversations, but I think at the

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Speaker 1: end of them, it was really healing for both of us.

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Speaker 1: You know, to be honest, like I certainly knew about

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Speaker 1: the trauma she experienced, but her going into detail it

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Speaker 1: gives me a better and more enriched perspective about who

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Speaker 1: she is. Yeah, I feel like it allowed I feel

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Speaker 1: like it allowed you to give her more grace. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and listen, people have been asking me about what I

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Speaker 1: want people to take away from this book. It's a

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Speaker 1: few things, but one of the most important things is

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Speaker 1: that I want I want people to know you should

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Speaker 1: talk to your people while they're here, right like your mother's,

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Speaker 1: your auntie's, your father, whoever in your family, find out

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Speaker 1: about them because as usually, like especially your relatives and

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Speaker 1: especially your parents, they lived the whole life before you

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Speaker 1: even got here. And writing this book it really made

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Speaker 1: me miss my grandmother who died in twenty and ten,

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Speaker 1: because I realized I didn't ask her nearly as much

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Speaker 1: about her life as I should have. You know, even

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Speaker 1: I know it's hard sometimes for parents and grandparents to share,

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Speaker 1: you know, traumatic moments or their failures or disappointments, but

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Speaker 1: it helps you see them as full of people, and

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Speaker 1: maybe that does allow you to give them more grace

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Speaker 1: with some of the decisions they made and even in

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Speaker 1: some respects to how they've treated you. I was gonna ask,

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Speaker 1: did you understand more after talking to your mom and

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Speaker 1: writing this book, because you know, even for myself, I

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Speaker 1: didn't really understand until I had kids, and then when

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Speaker 1: I had kids and I'm living my own life. I'm like,

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Speaker 1: that's why my dad did that, That's why my mom

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Speaker 1: acted that way. But you know, during the time, I

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Speaker 1: don't want to say I hated them, what you hated

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Speaker 1: what they were doing, right, But now I was like, damn,

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Speaker 1: I understand. So did you understand more and were able

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Speaker 1: to I'm you know, what I understood more is why

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Speaker 1: even in present day she lives with so much regret.

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Speaker 1: We had an interesting conversation recently about that because I

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Speaker 1: forgave my mother for this a long time ago. I've

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Speaker 1: let this go because I think as a kid, you know,

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Speaker 1: it was it was different because her trauma was something

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Speaker 1: I had to navigate around. So it felt like my

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Speaker 1: childhood was being stolen from me. And so you know,

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Speaker 1: you carry some resentment for that, and so I let

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Speaker 1: that go. I forgave her, encouraged her as she was

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Speaker 1: turning her life around. You know my mother, I mean,

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Speaker 1: she's got her masters now, you know, she got her

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Speaker 1: bachelor masters. You know, she outeducated me, which I'm very

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Speaker 1: very proud that she did that, and she went back

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Speaker 1: to school in her fifties. Okay, and so you know,

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Speaker 1: this has really been a remarkable turn amount for her.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean, you know, once I let all

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Speaker 1: of that stuff, you know, go, I think I was

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Speaker 1: good with it. But she I think she still struggles

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Speaker 1: to forgive herself because she feels like she missed so much.

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Speaker 1: And but the thing isn't It's something I wrote in

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Speaker 1: the book. It's like my mother was there for everything,

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Speaker 1: Like even though you know she had a severe addiction.

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Speaker 1: I didn't have one of those stories where my mom

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Speaker 1: was missing for days, like or didn't feed me, or

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Speaker 1: the lights was cut off, and she was very protective

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Speaker 1: of it no matter what. So like I didn't that

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Speaker 1: wasn't my story necessarily, because I know some people who

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Speaker 1: are the child the child of addicts, they do have

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Speaker 1: that story. But she was there, but she wasn't always present,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean. And so I think because

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Speaker 1: she was trying to um, you know, figure out how

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Speaker 1: to come out of all the darkness she was in.

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Speaker 1: I had to figure out ways to navigate around her abuse,

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Speaker 1: her drug abuse. You know what I'm saying. It's like

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Speaker 1: I don't know what mood you're gonna be, and I

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Speaker 1: don't know what person I'm getting today. I don't know

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Speaker 1: when I come home, what dynamic I'm going to find?

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Speaker 1: And so that for me was where the resentment was

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Speaker 1: coming from, is feeling like, man, I got to do

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Speaker 1: all this, you know, I'm trying to be a kid,

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Speaker 1: and it's all this seriousness and darkness kind of around us,

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Speaker 1: and so, um, I think once I really talk to

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Speaker 1: her about it, and we've talked throughout the years, but

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Speaker 1: it definitely helped me to understand a lot of the

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Speaker 1: decisions she made. Well, watching what she went through, did

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Speaker 1: it like scale you away from drugs and alcohol? Oh?

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, like I've never ever tried hard

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Speaker 1: drugs in my life. I don't know anybody who's done

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Speaker 1: any of that. I mean that, I know I don't.

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Speaker 1: I'm not on that scene. I'm not about that. I

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Speaker 1: mean I smoked a little weed like here and there. Um,

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Speaker 1: they had taken an edible or two like like, that's

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Speaker 1: about it. Um, And I do like tequila. But knowing

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Speaker 1: the history of addiction in my family has definitely made

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Speaker 1: me more cognizant of some things. Did your mom forgive

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Speaker 1: her mother? Did she have that opportunity to have those conversations?

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Speaker 1: So they didn't They didn't get to the best place

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Speaker 1: they were. There was always unconditional love. My mother loved

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Speaker 1: my grandmother fiercely. But when my grandmother made the decision

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Speaker 1: not to believe her about the abuse my mother suffered

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Speaker 1: at the hands of her brother, it was a fracture

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Speaker 1: in their relationship that never healed. And unfortunately, even when

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Speaker 1: my grandmother died, like my mother was her caretaker, you know,

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Speaker 1: like she regardless of whatever state their relationship was in

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Speaker 1: in the moment, my mother was never going to abandon

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Speaker 1: and stop loving my grandmother. And my grandmother definitely loved her,

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Speaker 1: but she herself was somebody who you know, we used

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Speaker 1: to have conversations about this, Like she used to tell me,

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Speaker 1: like she didn't really want kids, and she felt she

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Speaker 1: was a very smart woman, you know, and she was

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Speaker 1: really she really wanted a career, like the kind of

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Speaker 1: career I had, not necessarily a journalist, but she wanted

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Speaker 1: a career. She wanted to travel the world, all these things.

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Speaker 1: And she was born in nineteen twenty five, and so

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Speaker 1: education for black women was not a thing in terms

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Speaker 1: of people thinking that they should be educated or that

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Speaker 1: there was value that as you know, during those times,

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Speaker 1: I mean everything that a woman wanted to get financially

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Speaker 1: or any upward mobility came through marriage. And so she

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Speaker 1: was married three times and you know, she she had

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Speaker 1: her three kids, but she was just in many ways

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Speaker 1: trapped in a life she didn't feel like she chose.

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Speaker 1: And UM, I think because of that, she wasn't the

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Speaker 1: best parent to UM my mother and to um you know,

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Speaker 1: my uncle that she she could have been. She struggled

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Speaker 1: a lot that they got evicted a lot. My grandmother

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Speaker 1: was a functional alcoholic. Like they they had some they

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Speaker 1: had some trauma, some real issues. And so um she

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Speaker 1: was a great grandmother to me and my mother would

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Speaker 1: would still call her a great mother despite all the

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Speaker 1: all the you know, troubles that they went through. But

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Speaker 1: I just think that um my mother never got the

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Speaker 1: grandparent I got right, you know. And I was asking,

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Speaker 1: is there anything that you decided not to put in

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Speaker 1: a book that she was like, you know, let's leave

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Speaker 1: this out or I'm gonna take this out. Other family

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Speaker 1: members are not gonna like this. I know, y'all like

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Speaker 1: to hear the inside, y'all know, I know, people keep

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Speaker 1: it real on here and the tea. There was one

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Speaker 1: thing I cannot tell y'all. What it was. Me and

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Speaker 1: my mother got into an enormous argument about this, and

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Speaker 1: the thing is is that it was the only thing

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Speaker 1: in the book. She was because she got an early copy,

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Speaker 1: like an advanced reader copy where you can still edit

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Speaker 1: and change things, and she was hot about it and

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Speaker 1: we had it out. But the funny thing was, after

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Speaker 1: our argument, she told, you know, some of her friends

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Speaker 1: about it, and they told her she was tripping. And

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Speaker 1: I had a time to think about it, reflect on it.

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Speaker 1: I talked to my husband about it. And you know,

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Speaker 1: the thing, when you write a memoir, you're writing about

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Speaker 1: people who really exist, and so you have to be careful, truthful,

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Speaker 1: but careful, you know what I'm saying. So that's why

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Speaker 1: when I talk about the abortion I had used, I

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Speaker 1: did not use the person's real name because I don't

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Speaker 1: know if they've told that story. I don't know if

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Speaker 1: his people know or what state that's in, and I

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Speaker 1: didn't want to take away that opportunity from him to

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Speaker 1: tell his story his own way. So with my mother,

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Speaker 1: I had to think about the fact that what is

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Speaker 1: this relationship going to look like after this book? And

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Speaker 1: while I didn't anticipate my mother would stopped talking to

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Speaker 1: me or that. But it could be a wage issue.

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Speaker 1: And this is in print, you know what I'm saying,

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Speaker 1: It's forever, right, So I had to really think about

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Speaker 1: do I really want to do this. I can't imagine

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Speaker 1: what it could be because there's so much. I tell y'all,

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Speaker 1: even look your journal, you discuss that. Yeah, oh gee man?

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Speaker 1: And for parents, let me ask the guys in the room,

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Speaker 1: because y'all have kids. Would you read your daughter's journal

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Speaker 1: if you saw it laying around? I would tell my

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Speaker 1: wife you would, really because you don't want to read it. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't. I don't want to read it, but I

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Speaker 1: do think I probably would read it, only because I

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Speaker 1: just feel like there's certain things that we should know

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Speaker 1: as parents, You know what I mean. I would definitely

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Speaker 1: read it. You would definitely read it because and I would.

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Speaker 1: The only reason I say yes because I've gone through

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Speaker 1: the phone. Oh but that's not the same though, Yes

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Speaker 1: it is. I think they could not beat you some things.

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Speaker 1: It could be just you. It could be just like

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Speaker 1: venting something with you know, something's bothering you that you

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Speaker 1: don't talk about, and you're thinking about committing suicide or

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Speaker 1: hurting yourself or hurting somebody. So if I can stop that,

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Speaker 1: and maybe you hate me, but hopefully you love me

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Speaker 1: later because I was able to stop that. Now, if

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Speaker 1: it's something else, I mind my business and act like

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Speaker 1: I didn't read it. But if it's something then you

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Speaker 1: could have, you know, hurt yourself or somebody else, hurt

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Speaker 1: a classmate. Well, how do you look at that, Jamil?

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Speaker 1: Obviously I disagree and I got my asswhoop because of it, Okay.

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Speaker 1: And And that was the thing, is that because of

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Speaker 1: all the you know, tumultuousness in our life, that I

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Speaker 1: needed someplace to vent. You know, I couldn't vent to

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Speaker 1: my grandmother because my grandmother then that causes friction between

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Speaker 1: her and my mother. I was too embarrassed to vent

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Speaker 1: to my friends and let them in on the issues.

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Speaker 1: Not like I could pick a teacher, because that's a

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Speaker 1: double ass whooping coming right. He didn't have therapy back then,

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Speaker 1: didn't have therapy. So my journal was literally that, And

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Speaker 1: so there is I think that might be. That might

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Speaker 1: be that's the top three frightening moment of my life.

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Speaker 1: When you come home and your mother is sitting there

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Speaker 1: with your journal, opening it, reading it exactly. I mean

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Speaker 1: that woman. I was like, I was like, you try

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Speaker 1: to kill me my strap. When she read the advanced

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Speaker 1: copy of the book, did it bring you back to

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Speaker 1: that moment? Oh? Like it was triggering writing it. I

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Speaker 1: was just like, okay, because that's that's the worst assholee

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Speaker 1: but she ever gave me in my life, like, there's

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Speaker 1: nothing that comes to it was and then she, you know,

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Speaker 1: years later, she was like, you know you didn't deserve them,

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Speaker 1: Well can you go back in time and can you

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Speaker 1: do this? But you know it was, but she it was.

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Speaker 1: It was. That was one of our actually most fun

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Speaker 1: conversations because there were details of that I did not remember.

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Speaker 1: And I was like, that don't really sound liking me

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Speaker 1: because she told me that. Um well, one she was

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Speaker 1: sitting there with my journal and then she was like,

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Speaker 1: let's talk about this in a I was like, oh shit,

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Speaker 1: I'm never coming back smith and she said that's when

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Speaker 1: I told her that I wanted to go live with

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Speaker 1: my father. I was like, what would possess me to

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Speaker 1: say that? You was about to get and that's why

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Speaker 1: she bagged up all my ship, put it in there

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Speaker 1: and took me right to his job and was like,

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Speaker 1: she's all yours now, and I was like, this was

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Speaker 1: a grave mistake on my part, this man. Yeah, but

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Speaker 1: you know, I was able to keep a journal later

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Speaker 1: as an adult, and I actually had an ex who

325
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Speaker 1: read my journal too, And who I mean, people need

326
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Speaker 1: to not be nosy. And I guess it's your child.

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Speaker 1: I understand what they said as far as man. You

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Speaker 1: know what, man, and what's your book? Um sparked a

329
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Speaker 1: conversation that I had recently. Somebody told me a man

330
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Speaker 1: and I was thinking about survival and like for women,

331
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Speaker 1: and I saw like with your mom's stories of just

332
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Speaker 1: who she was with was sometimes just for survival. You

333
00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:03,720
Speaker 1: can financially correct, provide and take care of things. Somebody

334
00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:05,359
Speaker 1: said to me the other day, Man, I wish I

335
00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:07,800
Speaker 1: had money and could handle my business. I could date

336
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Speaker 1: who I want to date. And I thought about that

337
00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:13,600
Speaker 1: because you know, you're but there's people who end up

338
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Speaker 1: in situations where it's like, this is a good provider.

339
00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:19,760
Speaker 1: I have a family, I have children, and therefore this

340
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Speaker 1: is a smart decision for me to be with this person.

341
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Speaker 1: And that's something your mom actually had to do also, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, and she's very practical and so to her,

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Speaker 1: those were the qualifications she was looking for in the

344
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Speaker 1: being with somebody, especially at a certain stage in life,

345
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Speaker 1: like her first marriage. My first stepfather, as I'd love

346
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Speaker 1: to say to my mother, just rested her like step

347
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Speaker 1: from the number one. But no, she did that one

348
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Speaker 1: for love, right, that was like purely for love. And

349
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Speaker 1: but I think after that, and certainly with some of

350
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Speaker 1: the circumstances in our life, there was a practicality that

351
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Speaker 1: she thought, you know, it didn't make sense to her

352
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Speaker 1: to be with a man who could not provide for

353
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Speaker 1: you financially. I mean, she's very old school in that way.

354
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Speaker 1: And you know, even as my profile expanded, and you know,

355
00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:14,919
Speaker 1: she would give me dating advice, like I understand that

356
00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:17,479
Speaker 1: you know, your salaries published, whether true or not. And

357
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Speaker 1: so she was one of her biggest concerns is that

358
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Speaker 1: some man would want to be with me just because

359
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Speaker 1: you know of my money. And you know, I told her, like,

360
00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:30,200
Speaker 1: we have a totally different kind of viewpoint of those things.

361
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Speaker 1: I was like, you know, when I get married, I

362
00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:33,560
Speaker 1: want to I want to do it for love. Right.

363
00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:37,159
Speaker 1: That's not to say that financial considerations are not a

364
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Speaker 1: part of this. You know, you do have to have

365
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Speaker 1: some common sense with it, but that can't be the provision,

366
00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:46,280
Speaker 1: can't be the basis necessarily of our marriage, if that

367
00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:48,600
Speaker 1: makes sense, because it's more than just financial things that

368
00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:52,200
Speaker 1: you need from a person, and you know, there's emotional

369
00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:56,400
Speaker 1: security that you need from that person as well, trust, nurturing, commitment,

370
00:18:56,440 --> 00:18:58,880
Speaker 1: like all those other things that really don't have anything,

371
00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:01,119
Speaker 1: you know, to do with money. That's what I'm always like.

372
00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:03,880
Speaker 1: I always laugh because people, Um, this is obviously before

373
00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:06,320
Speaker 1: I got married. They're always surprised. They were always surprised,

374
00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:08,800
Speaker 1: and I wasn't, you know, dating like some athlete or

375
00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:12,080
Speaker 1: somebody else. I was like, that has never been That's

376
00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:14,199
Speaker 1: never been my style. But that's the point, is that

377
00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:17,439
Speaker 1: you are financially able to be in love because for

378
00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:20,720
Speaker 1: some women, they're like, I gotta be practical, Yeah no,

379
00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:22,720
Speaker 1: and get to a space financially where you're like, I

380
00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:24,800
Speaker 1: could do what I want. What. It's funny though, because

381
00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:26,800
Speaker 1: I wish you know, from my mother that like she

382
00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:30,119
Speaker 1: was a little less practical and was more you know.

383
00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:33,520
Speaker 1: That's not to say that she was incapable of the

384
00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:35,960
Speaker 1: loving aspect of a relationship, but it is to say

385
00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:39,760
Speaker 1: that I think, um, you know, because of so much

386
00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:42,639
Speaker 1: was robbed from her. You know, from a physical standpoint,

387
00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:45,960
Speaker 1: I do think it was much harder for her to

388
00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:51,040
Speaker 1: really trust any man, and so to her the provision

389
00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:53,880
Speaker 1: part like, Okay, this is a tangible that I can see,

390
00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:56,399
Speaker 1: that I can rely on. That's why I think that

391
00:19:56,480 --> 00:20:00,040
Speaker 1: had such a high importance for her. How important I

392
00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:01,840
Speaker 1: think we talked about this enough. How important is picking

393
00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:06,040
Speaker 1: the right partner the right meat. How important is that

394
00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:08,880
Speaker 1: into breaking generational crisis? Oh? I think it's a huge

395
00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:12,320
Speaker 1: part of it. I mean, listen, between my mother, my grandmother,

396
00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:14,840
Speaker 1: and my great aunt who also was no longer, no

397
00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:18,720
Speaker 1: longer living, they were married eight times, eight times. And

398
00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:22,439
Speaker 1: you know, there were certainly some successful marriages in my family.

399
00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:24,840
Speaker 1: I did not see a lot of them growing up

400
00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:27,919
Speaker 1: because even the people that were together, you know, it

401
00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:31,080
Speaker 1: was like okay, come on, you know, like it was.

402
00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:34,520
Speaker 1: It was definitely some turbulence that was there. And for

403
00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:36,439
Speaker 1: a long time I did not want to get married.

404
00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:42,800
Speaker 1: And that was because seeing how those relationships created some

405
00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:44,959
Speaker 1: brokenness in them, and I was like, I don't want

406
00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:46,720
Speaker 1: any part of that. If that's what that's supposed to

407
00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:50,840
Speaker 1: look like, I'm good, And that's why I'm so thankful

408
00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:52,800
Speaker 1: that I got married when I did, like when I

409
00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:56,560
Speaker 1: was into my forties already, because by that time, having

410
00:20:56,600 --> 00:21:00,000
Speaker 1: some lived experience, being at a point where I didn't

411
00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:03,800
Speaker 1: need to get married certainly, Um, the only way I

412
00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:05,840
Speaker 1: was going to get married if I truly wanted to

413
00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:07,840
Speaker 1: be with that person. And so when I met my

414
00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:13,840
Speaker 1: husband in twenty and fourteen, um, you know I wasn't looking.

415
00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:17,159
Speaker 1: We met at homecoming at at Michigan State. You know,

416
00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:19,480
Speaker 1: I know that. Uh of course, now we're in like

417
00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:23,600
Speaker 1: HPCU homecoming sea season right now, and it's like, look

418
00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:25,920
Speaker 1: at p wis with the black people? Do I say too?

419
00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:28,200
Speaker 1: All right? You know, I'm not saying this as lit

420
00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:30,640
Speaker 1: as Hampton. I'm not saying that n B. All Right,

421
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:33,120
Speaker 1: I get it. It is a little different, all right,

422
00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:36,000
Speaker 1: but we we get we do, all right. And so

423
00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:38,840
Speaker 1: I was there at Michigan State UM as the grandmar

424
00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:41,040
Speaker 1: show of the homecoming parade, and I was at the

425
00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:44,600
Speaker 1: Black alumni tailgate. Okay MS black alumni, ms U B

426
00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:47,440
Speaker 1: a shout out. Um, I was there, and I was

427
00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:51,240
Speaker 1: actually talking to a former student of mine because when

428
00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:53,240
Speaker 1: I worked in Detroit at the at the Free Press,

429
00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:55,920
Speaker 1: I co taught a sports writing class at Michigan State

430
00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:58,280
Speaker 1: and this he was one of the students that was

431
00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:00,800
Speaker 1: in my class, and so I'm talking to him and

432
00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:03,639
Speaker 1: I see this like fine dude, like kind of roll up.

433
00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:06,080
Speaker 1: I was like, Okay, it's like I don't know what's

434
00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:09,040
Speaker 1: happening there, but I'm liking the energy. And we were

435
00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:11,199
Speaker 1: just like flirting and going back and forth. But we

436
00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:15,000
Speaker 1: never exchanged numbers because you know, the student I was

437
00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:17,359
Speaker 1: talking to knew my husband. They were good friends. And

438
00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:21,200
Speaker 1: later on that night, at the Black alumni party that

439
00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:25,520
Speaker 1: they have during homecoming weekend, DJ by mc light like,

440
00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:28,879
Speaker 1: I'll never forget I saw. I saw him at the party,

441
00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:30,280
Speaker 1: and I was like, what are the odds that you

442
00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:32,439
Speaker 1: see the fine guy that you've never seen before? And

443
00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:34,800
Speaker 1: I've been coming to homecoming for a couple of years

444
00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:40,240
Speaker 1: that you see him again, must be a side party. Well,

445
00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:43,440
Speaker 1: but I hadn't been going to homecoming for the last

446
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:45,920
Speaker 1: couple of years, going to all the black events. I'd

447
00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:49,160
Speaker 1: never seen a right and once we got to talk,

448
00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:52,480
Speaker 1: and I mean, like he my home church growing up

449
00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:55,240
Speaker 1: is right in his neighborhood. All my people lived in

450
00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:58,000
Speaker 1: the side of Detroit that he lived on and it

451
00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:00,560
Speaker 1: was a miracle. We have never run into each other,

452
00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:03,000
Speaker 1: and even though he went to Michigan State, he would

453
00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:05,120
Speaker 1: He's five years younger than me, so we weren't there

454
00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:07,000
Speaker 1: at the same time, but we had a lot of

455
00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:10,919
Speaker 1: like connections. So he came over to talk to me.

456
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:15,280
Speaker 1: He got my number, and he called me the next day,

457
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:17,480
Speaker 1: which a lot of dudes don't do anymore. You know

458
00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:20,119
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, like calling you right away. But the

459
00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:22,159
Speaker 1: phone call, a phone call, that was the other thing

460
00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:26,320
Speaker 1: that was impressive. Also impressive. I actually answered it right

461
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:29,320
Speaker 1: I was like hello, you know, and so um so

462
00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:31,920
Speaker 1: yeah that and the rest was kind of history, as

463
00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:34,720
Speaker 1: they say, and we had our first date a couple

464
00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:37,159
Speaker 1: of weeks later. Just so happened. I was going to

465
00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:41,840
Speaker 1: um Orange County in California for a work conference for

466
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:46,359
Speaker 1: ESPN and then his company happens to be headquartered in

467
00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:48,960
Speaker 1: Orange County and he was going to be there for business.

468
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:57,000
Speaker 1: God did and just so, what you're going there too? No,

469
00:23:57,080 --> 00:23:59,119
Speaker 1: we were just talking on the phone and he was like,

470
00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:01,400
Speaker 1: wait a minute, I'm gonna be there too, and so

471
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:05,879
Speaker 1: uh he he came over to my hotel and um,

472
00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:08,880
Speaker 1: we hung out, had some drinks and uh, you know,

473
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:12,720
Speaker 1: he uh stayed overnight. Nothing happened. Let me just say

474
00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:15,600
Speaker 1: this because I see where y'all mind is going. Nothing happened,

475
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:21,080
Speaker 1: And I thought, like when he didn't, even when I did,

476
00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:25,280
Speaker 1: nothing happened. Well, you're right, let me let me work,

477
00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:30,040
Speaker 1: let me let me clarify. No sex happened, Okay, right,

478
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:33,800
Speaker 1: and yeah we did kiss, but you know, we just slept.

479
00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:36,159
Speaker 1: And uh. The next day, I thought, man, as soon

480
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:38,320
Speaker 1: as daylight here, this dude's gonna be out of here.

481
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:41,720
Speaker 1: And but he wasn't. He was like, he was like,

482
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:43,879
Speaker 1: let's go to breakfast. I finding a liar that he's

483
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:46,640
Speaker 1: out there recording it. But you han't heard your story.

484
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:48,720
Speaker 1: You haven't read the move, like you haven't heard the

485
00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:56,880
Speaker 1: old I know, right, I think he went to breakfast.

486
00:24:57,320 --> 00:24:58,880
Speaker 1: I think he just want to see if if I

487
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:02,760
Speaker 1: if I tell some various you know, some different versions details,

488
00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:05,520
Speaker 1: you know, or whatever, he puts a little more sauce

489
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:07,600
Speaker 1: on when we first met than I do. But that

490
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:10,280
Speaker 1: is the truthful version of what happened. Now. You talk

491
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:12,960
Speaker 1: about in the book about your experiences growing up in Detroit.

492
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:15,840
Speaker 1: But what I want to know is how hard is

493
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:19,000
Speaker 1: it to let go of the Detroit in you when

494
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:26,000
Speaker 1: you're in these corporate environments. How much Detroit do you need? Well?

495
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:28,720
Speaker 1: Of course, when I see somebody from Detroit, you knows,

496
00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:30,879
Speaker 1: you know, Jayleen Rose worked at ESPN. We see each other,

497
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:34,399
Speaker 1: we're like, what up? Th right? Okay? Um, you know what,

498
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:37,440
Speaker 1: the Detroit of me will never leave. And I don't

499
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:40,400
Speaker 1: think that's a bad thing. That doesn't mean that you're

500
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 1: in meetings and corporate environments having to cuss people out

501
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:45,680
Speaker 1: or do anything like that. But you know, you let

502
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 1: people know you have a boundary and that you expect

503
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:52,440
Speaker 1: to be respected. And I think the parts of Detroit

504
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:54,960
Speaker 1: that are in me are parts that are that have

505
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:58,320
Speaker 1: just done wondrous things for my life. You know, Detroit,

506
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:01,320
Speaker 1: Angel knows this. Detroit is is a tough city. It's

507
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:04,639
Speaker 1: a resilience city. It's also a city where you know,

508
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:06,320
Speaker 1: we take a lot of pride and being from there.

509
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 1: Don't nobody put off for Detroit like people from Detroit

510
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:17,040
Speaker 1: exactly like all of that. Yeah, that's that's a part

511
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:20,600
Speaker 1: of who we are. And so that's why in my

512
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:23,800
Speaker 1: social media bio, I say that you know, I was

513
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:26,440
Speaker 1: raised in Detroit. Grew up at Michigan State, Like Detroit

514
00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 1: is going to always run hot and heavy through my blood.

515
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:34,280
Speaker 1: And also a little philosophy aspect the fact that we

516
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:37,000
Speaker 1: wear meat coachs to the movies like now you never

517
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:39,280
Speaker 1: take the Detroit and the education that you got there,

518
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:42,960
Speaker 1: I think was incredible just to hear, because I feel

519
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:46,119
Speaker 1: like that shaped a lot of who you are today

520
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:48,840
Speaker 1: just being from there, but also the school that you

521
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:51,880
Speaker 1: went to, and then the mentor is not or people

522
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:54,320
Speaker 1: that actually encouraged you to try different things because a

523
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:56,840
Speaker 1: lot of kids don't have that. Yeah, I mean, listen,

524
00:26:56,840 --> 00:27:00,359
Speaker 1: there were so many pivotal points in my life where

525
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:04,080
Speaker 1: just a seed planted by somebody, just the word that

526
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:06,120
Speaker 1: got me to the next step that I was supposed

527
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:08,680
Speaker 1: to get to, that encouraged me to kind of keep going.

528
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:11,960
Speaker 1: And you know, Detroit I was. I was largely with

529
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:14,439
Speaker 1: the exception of two or three years, a public high school,

530
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:17,439
Speaker 1: a public education student. You know, I went to public

531
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:20,000
Speaker 1: elementary school. I went to a public middle school. You know,

532
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:22,560
Speaker 1: both mean middle school, went to Mumford. So I graduated

533
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:25,960
Speaker 1: from high school. And it's another reason why public education

534
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:29,199
Speaker 1: is very important to me. I was lucky because Detroit

535
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 1: gave me a firm sense of my identity. You know,

536
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:35,080
Speaker 1: it was a city I think now it might currently

537
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:38,160
Speaker 1: be the blackest city in America because it's eighty five

538
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:40,480
Speaker 1: percent black. When I was growing up, it was over

539
00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 1: a million people lived in Detroit. It was like ninety

540
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:45,400
Speaker 1: percent black. You know, you don't have to have first

541
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:49,800
Speaker 1: Fridays in Detroit. It was called going to the grocery store.

542
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:52,400
Speaker 1: You know, you will sound a little different, you know, yeah,

543
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:54,920
Speaker 1: now it isn't, but back then it wasn't. It wasn't

544
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:56,480
Speaker 1: like that. It was still ours, if you know what

545
00:27:56,520 --> 00:28:00,680
Speaker 1: I mean. And so having black teachers, having black teachers

546
00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:05,280
Speaker 1: throughout my entire you know, schooling, like those were important

547
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:09,160
Speaker 1: identity moments. You know. I didn't have to go out

548
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:12,320
Speaker 1: of my way to learn about black history. My teachers

549
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:15,359
Speaker 1: just taught it. It was just a part of the curriculum.

550
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:18,280
Speaker 1: You know. I took African American history classes at Mumford,

551
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:21,239
Speaker 1: So it was just like that was nothing new. And

552
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:23,280
Speaker 1: so to go from that environment and then to go

553
00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:27,840
Speaker 1: to Michigan State, you know, forty thousand students, eighty percent

554
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:30,479
Speaker 1: of them white, probably more than that, it was like

555
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:33,920
Speaker 1: quite a culture shock for me. But I was so

556
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,720
Speaker 1: glad to have had that experience of growing up in

557
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 1: Detroit because that allowed me to always have pride in

558
00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:43,120
Speaker 1: my identity and you know, to kind of carry that

559
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:44,960
Speaker 1: with me wherever I went. You know That's why I laugh.

560
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:47,000
Speaker 1: And I'm sure V you probably get this when people

561
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:50,600
Speaker 1: say going to a HBCU is not the real world.

562
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:52,520
Speaker 1: I was like, no, you need to be rooted in

563
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:56,080
Speaker 1: who you are because whatever environment you step into, you

564
00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 1: cannot let it change who you are or let them

565
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:04,000
Speaker 1: tell you who you are. And even going to Michigan State,

566
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:07,240
Speaker 1: you weren't even fathoming that you could have white roommates. Nah,

567
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:10,360
Speaker 1: I mean it was. It was wild because but it

568
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:12,640
Speaker 1: was some of the racial conversations we used to have them.

569
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:15,880
Speaker 1: Good God, thank god nobody had a phone because they

570
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 1: would be like what but you know, my my suite

571
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:22,920
Speaker 1: mates at the time they were they were from Sterling Heights, Michigan,

572
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:24,640
Speaker 1: and we used to call it growing up Sterling whites

573
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:26,960
Speaker 1: right because it was because it was it was that

574
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:30,840
Speaker 1: white right, And um, you know they didn't even they

575
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 1: didn't they had no idea who Malcolm X was. Wow.

576
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:37,719
Speaker 1: They they were like we we get Martin Luther King juniors. Uh,

577
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:39,680
Speaker 1: we get a day off of that. They had no idea,

578
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:41,720
Speaker 1: Like they were like, nah, I think we were at school.

579
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 1: I was like, that can't be the case. It's a

580
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:46,320
Speaker 1: natural all the day. They just didn't know. They didn't

581
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:49,920
Speaker 1: have any exposure to black people outside of listening to

582
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:52,160
Speaker 1: the chronic Like they really didn't like they didn't know

583
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:55,920
Speaker 1: anything and so, um, But in fairness, I didn't know

584
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:58,840
Speaker 1: a whole lot about white people there, so other you know,

585
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:01,479
Speaker 1: obviously I knew way more history about white people than

586
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:04,240
Speaker 1: they knew about you know, black people. But in terms

587
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 1: of just being around white people, Um, I didn't have

588
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:10,080
Speaker 1: that much experience with that. So it was great and

589
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:13,160
Speaker 1: we're still friends of this day that we were able to, um,

590
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 1: you know, learn from each other. But you know, there

591
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 1: was some Michigan State, like I mean that was a

592
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:21,680
Speaker 1: place where you know, I really came into my own

593
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 1: and grew up. But in terms of you know, having

594
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:28,320
Speaker 1: just real up close experiences with racism that all, you know,

595
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:30,560
Speaker 1: a lot of that started and happened there. Can you

596
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:32,600
Speaker 1: talk about you know, you talk about how what your

597
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 1: mother taught you about black conservatives? About my article in

598
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:40,720
Speaker 1: the Atlantic. So you know, my mother is she is

599
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 1: a deep sense of her faith. Um, she's a Christian

600
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:46,720
Speaker 1: and or a believer, you know, as she likes to

601
00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:52,960
Speaker 1: put it. And because of her religious background or because

602
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:55,360
Speaker 1: of her faith, I'm gonna use a term religion. Um,

603
00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:59,680
Speaker 1: you know, she is certain conservative principles that she has. Now,

604
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:03,480
Speaker 1: some of these principles are outside of faith, because you know,

605
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 1: the one thing that's hilarious to me about you know, Republicans,

606
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:09,040
Speaker 1: is that they want to always label black people liberal,

607
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:12,440
Speaker 1: and y'all know, and having conversations, especially with some elders,

608
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:15,160
Speaker 1: the black people like the conservative as hell from the

609
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 1: South exactly, especially those from from the South. And so

610
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:22,400
Speaker 1: the black people don't have a problem with conservatives, We

611
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:25,080
Speaker 1: got a problem with racism. That's those are totally you know,

612
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 1: different things. And so my mother, you know, she's old school,

613
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 1: and especially you know, with her being a believer, she

614
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:36,160
Speaker 1: does not believe in abortion, and there's other ideals that

615
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 1: she has that we clash on because clearly that's not

616
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 1: where I'm coming from. And but I think her her

617
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:49,640
Speaker 1: being that way has really given me insight about conservatives too.

618
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 1: It's particularly those that tie it to their Christian faith,

619
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:55,760
Speaker 1: and so that's informed a lot of my opinions and

620
00:31:55,840 --> 00:32:00,400
Speaker 1: even how I write about those issues when I'm attacking

621
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:05,720
Speaker 1: conservative suitially, this era, this Trump conservative, it is totally

622
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:08,040
Speaker 1: different than the ones from back in the day. I

623
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:12,040
Speaker 1: think they it's definitely different. But you know, as I

624
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:13,720
Speaker 1: write about it in the book, there were things about

625
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 1: Trump that appealed to my mother definitely. And I know

626
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:19,200
Speaker 1: that seems strange to say about, you know, a sixty something,

627
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:23,440
Speaker 1: your whole black woman from Detroit, but she she liked

628
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 1: the macho shit. I mean, she liked the tough talk

629
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:29,840
Speaker 1: and the whole generation is soft like that fed right

630
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:33,480
Speaker 1: into a lot of the things that she believes, you know.

631
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:37,440
Speaker 1: And um, and she also watched him on The Apprentice.

632
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:41,920
Speaker 1: So yeah, but yeah, I mean so I think while

633
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:46,560
Speaker 1: these Trump Conservatives are markedly different, markedly more dangerous, Um,

634
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:51,360
Speaker 1: there are some core principles they have that frankly, Republicans

635
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:55,560
Speaker 1: have always had. He didn't invent a lot of the

636
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:58,880
Speaker 1: things that he's done. He perfected some of them. But

637
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:02,120
Speaker 1: you know, when you look back at Ronald Reagan's presidency,

638
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 1: you see a lot a lot of similarities. He evokes

639
00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:07,760
Speaker 1: a lot of those talking plans, he totally does. Well,

640
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:09,840
Speaker 1: I'm gonna touch on a few things without telling everything,

641
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:13,320
Speaker 1: but chapter eight, Free Press Don't Raise No Punks a

642
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:18,680
Speaker 1: little bit. So that m title came from a very

643
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:21,560
Speaker 1: fun night that I had when I was covering Michigan

644
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 1: State basketball. They had just beaten Kentucky in the Elite

645
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:26,360
Speaker 1: Eight and we're on their way to their first Final

646
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:28,479
Speaker 1: Four since Magic took them in seventy nine. So this

647
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:31,960
Speaker 1: is back in nineteen ninety nine, and you know, I

648
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:33,560
Speaker 1: mean Michigan State because they were good. They had a

649
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:36,200
Speaker 1: lot of media coverage, a lot of Detroit media outlets

650
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:38,960
Speaker 1: and Michigan media outlets that were following them. And so

651
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:41,640
Speaker 1: after the game, you know, we know we headed to

652
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 1: the Final four, so we all went out to just

653
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:47,720
Speaker 1: hang out, get some drinks, and somehow we just started

654
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:51,200
Speaker 1: doing tequila shot after tequila shot after tequila shot, and

655
00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 1: I might have been four or five in easy and

656
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:56,360
Speaker 1: somebody was like, oh, we doing one more round, and

657
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:58,280
Speaker 1: most people tapped out. I was like, I ain't tapping out.

658
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:01,080
Speaker 1: Free Press don't raise no Punks, and they never let

659
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:05,480
Speaker 1: me forget that. So so for years, when I was

660
00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:08,400
Speaker 1: on the beat, every time I ran into another reporter

661
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:10,440
Speaker 1: who was there that night. They'd be like Free Press

662
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:15,120
Speaker 1: raised bunks like y'all. So that is where that title

663
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:19,480
Speaker 1: came from. Interesting that you didn't realize your voice, how

664
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:22,279
Speaker 1: it could be so polarizing for certain people, right to

665
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:25,080
Speaker 1: write an article and then to get responses where people

666
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:27,919
Speaker 1: are even threatening you. Yeah, and at such a young

667
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:31,080
Speaker 1: age too, No, I mean that started like I started

668
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 1: getting hate nailed back at Michigan State. I mean the

669
00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:36,759
Speaker 1: first time I was called a nigger was at Michigan State, right,

670
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 1: And unfortunately, because I did have that experience there, had

671
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:43,840
Speaker 1: it at the Free Press. Every place I worked, Orlando Riley,

672
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:46,400
Speaker 1: I was called a racial slur. Every place I was

673
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:49,520
Speaker 1: either told to um, you know, I was either called

674
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:51,719
Speaker 1: a racial slur, told to go back to Africa or

675
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:53,320
Speaker 1: go right for Cosmo. It was gonna be one of

676
00:34:53,360 --> 00:35:02,960
Speaker 1: those three. And so Woman's Magazine. Yeah, you don't even

677
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 1: think about the gender. No, So every every time I

678
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:09,200
Speaker 1: had been told that, and so by the time it

679
00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:12,960
Speaker 1: started happening at ESPN, and especially after um what I

680
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:16,319
Speaker 1: said about Donald Trump, I was I had already been

681
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 1: through it. So it wasn't nearly effective. The problem is

682
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:23,560
Speaker 1: with the Trump thing, like that took it to a

683
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:26,800
Speaker 1: whole new level. You know. I had certainly faced hate

684
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:29,840
Speaker 1: before my career and even gotten a couple of death threats.

685
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:33,000
Speaker 1: That was different, you know, And when I was at

686
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:36,040
Speaker 1: ESPN and that happened, it was just like, um, the

687
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 1: mobs of mail, like, you know, you real racist when

688
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:40,720
Speaker 1: you take the time out to write somebody a letter

689
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:43,960
Speaker 1: calling them a nigger, among many other things. I was like,

690
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:45,640
Speaker 1: damn that too. You had to put a stamp on

691
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:52,000
Speaker 1: this Facebook message, Like that's fast, Like you know what

692
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:58,319
Speaker 1: I'm saying, that's that old school racism. They like they

693
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:01,279
Speaker 1: took time out of their day to make sure you

694
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:03,919
Speaker 1: have to hold back talking about everything at ESPN too.

695
00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:07,120
Speaker 1: But in the book, yeah, um, you know what there was.

696
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:10,920
Speaker 1: I don't think I held back, but I think there

697
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:14,920
Speaker 1: are parts of that story that, you know, frankly, didn't

698
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:17,319
Speaker 1: really go with the whole narrative of what There's a

699
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:19,520
Speaker 1: whole lot of incidents I could have certainly talked about,

700
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 1: but it's like it just didn't make sense in terms

701
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:24,520
Speaker 1: of the storytelling rhythm. I wanted to go. Plus, you know,

702
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:26,719
Speaker 1: ESPN was a chapter in my life. It wasn't my

703
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:29,480
Speaker 1: whole life, and I realized that a lot of people

704
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:33,000
Speaker 1: made buy this memoir because they're looking for the ESPN

705
00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:35,319
Speaker 1: dirt and gossip. I was honest. I'm sure there are

706
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:37,520
Speaker 1: some people at ESPN that probably don't like some of

707
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:41,880
Speaker 1: the things that I put in there, but it is

708
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:43,440
Speaker 1: what it is. He were very honest. You said you

709
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:45,840
Speaker 1: were embarrassed it in there while they were he was

710
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:48,719
Speaker 1: reading verbatim what you see, oh Man talking about the

711
00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:51,640
Speaker 1: former president of ESPN, John Skipper, who is still a

712
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:53,920
Speaker 1: friend of mine. You know, we went through a rough

713
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:58,160
Speaker 1: period after the Donald Trump incident, and you know, as

714
00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 1: I write about, the most disappointing part about all of that,

715
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:04,000
Speaker 1: it wasn't what the president said. It wasn't the reaction,

716
00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:06,759
Speaker 1: it wasn't the death threat. The most disappointing part of

717
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:08,880
Speaker 1: that was that when he called me out, when the

718
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:11,000
Speaker 1: White House said that I should be fired, ESPN did

719
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:14,239
Speaker 1: not have my back. That was it. Because there's a

720
00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:18,960
Speaker 1: code in journalism, for sure, and every newspaper I ever

721
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:22,839
Speaker 1: worked for it. I fully believe that that happened while

722
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:24,600
Speaker 1: I was at that paper. They would have put out

723
00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:27,200
Speaker 1: a statement right away saying, now, you may not like

724
00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:29,759
Speaker 1: what she said, but she wanted to us because that's

725
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:33,359
Speaker 1: the whole that's the whole tenet of a free press, right.

726
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:39,359
Speaker 1: It's like, you're supposed to be protected from government, you know, persecution.

727
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 1: And there's so many examples in the history of journalism

728
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:46,080
Speaker 1: of where newspapers and out let's have done exactly that,

729
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:49,239
Speaker 1: Like when city Hall comes after your reporter, it's understood,

730
00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:52,839
Speaker 1: you got your reporters back. And when ESPN didn't do

731
00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:55,879
Speaker 1: that and just let me twist and let me fry,

732
00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:59,640
Speaker 1: I I was mad. I was disappointed. Honestly, I was hurt.

733
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:02,600
Speaker 1: I had been there eleven years at that point. I'm like,

734
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:05,600
Speaker 1: we got to be better than this. And one of

735
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:08,040
Speaker 1: the you know, one of the healing aspects of my

736
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:11,360
Speaker 1: relationship with Skipper, like when we met the day before

737
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:14,040
Speaker 1: I was coming off suspension and we went to have breakfast.

738
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:16,760
Speaker 1: He apologized to me then and said he was sorry.

739
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:18,480
Speaker 1: He said if there was one regret he had, it

740
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:22,319
Speaker 1: was that he should have said something after Trump or

741
00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:25,400
Speaker 1: former Press Secretary Sarah Huckaby Sanders said something about me.

742
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:27,120
Speaker 1: Did he tell you the truth too? About how you

743
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:29,359
Speaker 1: know a lot of those networker jets were afraid that

744
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:33,480
Speaker 1: Trump wouldn't clear the Fox Disney merger. No, he actually didn't.

745
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:36,400
Speaker 1: He didn't tell me that is that, like the equivalent

746
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:40,760
Speaker 1: of Bill Cosby was by NBC, or that was actually true,

747
00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:42,800
Speaker 1: Like people were afraid that he wasn't going to approve

748
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:45,799
Speaker 1: the merger between Fox Disney. I forgot who else it was. Well,

749
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:48,640
Speaker 1: I think a part of it, you know, at that point,

750
00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:52,799
Speaker 1: if y'all remember in twenty seventeen, when you know, those

751
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:55,480
Speaker 1: tweets happened and I got in the crosshairs at the president.

752
00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:58,680
Speaker 1: At ESPN was at a very interesting juncture, like they

753
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:03,880
Speaker 1: were being called too political, two left, liberal leaning and

754
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:06,160
Speaker 1: you know, which I thought in many ways was just

755
00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:10,040
Speaker 1: coded racism, because suddenly you see a new emergence of

756
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:12,279
Speaker 1: faces at ESPN. You know, you had Stephen A. Smith

757
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:14,000
Speaker 1: becoming the face of the network. You had Me, you

758
00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:18,400
Speaker 1: had Michael Smith, you had Bamonte Jones, all these Sarah Spain,

759
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:21,960
Speaker 1: Kate Fagan, like all these different new diverse voices that

760
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:25,600
Speaker 1: were that had major platforms, you know, Dan Lebotard. So

761
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:28,880
Speaker 1: suddenly you see a mix up in terms of what

762
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:30,840
Speaker 1: the talent looks like at ESPN, and then all of

763
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:33,120
Speaker 1: a sudden, they too political and too liberal, you know,

764
00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:37,839
Speaker 1: because people often white America, just our presence to them

765
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:40,840
Speaker 1: is political. Our presence to them is liberal. We're reminding

766
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 1: them of something just by sitting here. We could say

767
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 1: nothing political at all, and they was where we were political.

768
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:49,080
Speaker 1: So that's why I used to get so pissed when

769
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:50,759
Speaker 1: Mike and I were doing Sports Center and they used

770
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:53,360
Speaker 1: to call our show political. We never talked about politics.

771
00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:55,719
Speaker 1: They acted like when they turned to Sports Center, we

772
00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:59,320
Speaker 1: were breaking down immigration reform that like never happened. And

773
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:02,080
Speaker 1: we got sick of talking about Colin Kaepernick, not because

774
00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:05,399
Speaker 1: his story was important, but we had producers that every

775
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:07,719
Speaker 1: time a quarterback was signed would come runner that's like,

776
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:09,759
Speaker 1: yall want to talk about Colin Kaepernick. I was like, no,

777
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:12,319
Speaker 1: we don't. Like we said what we said, Like it's

778
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:14,640
Speaker 1: already been established that the NFL is not going to

779
00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:17,520
Speaker 1: let him back into playing football. And so people were

780
00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:21,040
Speaker 1: trying to create a narrative around our show just because

781
00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:25,120
Speaker 1: we were are black as ourselves on TV. And that was,

782
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:28,200
Speaker 1: you know, really a difficult period to go through as

783
00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:29,680
Speaker 1: you're trying to get a new show off the ground,

784
00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:33,200
Speaker 1: trying to find your footing and all of this noise

785
00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:35,239
Speaker 1: and narrative is around the show about it not being

786
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:38,200
Speaker 1: too political and Mike and I are racists, and they

787
00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:40,520
Speaker 1: started calling us Wolke Center like that was some that

788
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:43,080
Speaker 1: was something that was some bullshit, Like it really was.

789
00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:45,839
Speaker 1: I finally hilarious that ESPN had to turn right back around, though,

790
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:47,880
Speaker 1: and they had. They couldn't run from the fact that

791
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:52,359
Speaker 1: there was an intersectionality between politics, social issues and sports. Yeah.

792
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:55,480
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just I think they went through a

793
00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:57,680
Speaker 1: period of time where they just didn't have the stomach

794
00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:01,239
Speaker 1: for the fight, and especially when it came to me

795
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:04,799
Speaker 1: and our show, that when you had all these right

796
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:08,320
Speaker 1: wing publications, media outlets writing about us all the time,

797
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:11,920
Speaker 1: you know, whenever we discussed anything that was you know,

798
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:14,600
Speaker 1: remotely close to race or you know, anything that came

799
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:17,879
Speaker 1: up within the you know, the realm of sports, they

800
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:21,480
Speaker 1: just didn't want any part of that. And um, you know,

801
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:25,399
Speaker 1: their relationship with the NFL was a little tenuous, and

802
00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:29,399
Speaker 1: so I think they kind of took a cowardly way

803
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:32,320
Speaker 1: out for a little while. And so when they hired

804
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:34,799
Speaker 1: you know, our friend Angela Rye, and they seemed to

805
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:38,120
Speaker 1: be ready to re engage in those conversations particularly after

806
00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:40,960
Speaker 1: George Floyd. I was. I was mostly happy for my

807
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:43,200
Speaker 1: former colleagues because I know that a lot of them

808
00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:45,200
Speaker 1: had a lot of things they wanted to say and

809
00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:49,399
Speaker 1: didn't feel the comfort or safety to say them. And um,

810
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:52,000
Speaker 1: seeing the company gonna reverse course a little bit, I

811
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:54,520
Speaker 1: think was helpful for them so that they could join

812
00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:57,440
Speaker 1: the dialogue before we got to ask a couple of

813
00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:00,760
Speaker 1: sports questions. One more thing about the book. Then chapter

814
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:02,759
Speaker 1: five you pay homage to Judy Bloom with that title

815
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:05,799
Speaker 1: you did go it's me you gotta see you know,

816
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:11,000
Speaker 1: man Beverley clearly and Judi Judy Blue got me through. Man.

817
00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:18,319
Speaker 1: I don't know Dan Danie right, you know? But shoot,

818
00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:20,040
Speaker 1: the way people are acting about this book, Man and

819
00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:22,240
Speaker 1: Judie Bloom might be bad right now. I have no idea.

820
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:27,239
Speaker 1: Are you never? God is me? Margaret might not be anymore?

821
00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:30,080
Speaker 1: You know? It feel like young adult novels are so

822
00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:32,759
Speaker 1: important too. Yeah, no, because I think about all the things.

823
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:34,640
Speaker 1: I even used to read them, Sweet Valley High books.

824
00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:36,480
Speaker 1: I used to read Sweet Valley High, to Choose your

825
00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:40,160
Speaker 1: Own Adventure, like to Love Choose Aventure like those are.

826
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:43,319
Speaker 1: Remember when Netflix did that Black Mirror episode, It choose

827
00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:46,279
Speaker 1: you on adventure. I have never seen black Mirror. Really no,

828
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:50,239
Speaker 1: they got to choose your own adventure black Mirror Interactive.

829
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:53,359
Speaker 1: Like that's is great, all right, I gotta peep that

830
00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:57,200
Speaker 1: my sports question. Oh got Draymond Green Jordan Pool? Draymond

831
00:42:57,200 --> 00:43:00,160
Speaker 1: Greens punches him in the face? Can Jordan pools? They

832
00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:04,080
Speaker 1: did and play comfortably there? Well, And I think this

833
00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:07,680
Speaker 1: is this was evident before this m incident, just because

834
00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:10,160
Speaker 1: the state that they, you know, go to state is

835
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:12,759
Speaker 1: in in terms of their finances. I mean, that's a

836
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:14,600
Speaker 1: hell of check that don't have to write in luxury

837
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:18,719
Speaker 1: taxes alone. If they decide to resign Draymond, give him

838
00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:21,600
Speaker 1: a new deal rather, and so I think it was

839
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:25,960
Speaker 1: probably trending toward him not being there anyway. And you know,

840
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:29,239
Speaker 1: I know Draymond um good dude. I know people have

841
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:34,360
Speaker 1: polarizing opinions about him. That was a bad moment obviously. Now.

842
00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:37,800
Speaker 1: The only thing I debated with people who called it

843
00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:41,560
Speaker 1: a sucker punch. That was not a sucker punch, right, Like,

844
00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:44,759
Speaker 1: it's just there's an aggressive moment that's happening. And I

845
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:47,360
Speaker 1: know that's your teammate, and people are like, oh, but

846
00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:49,520
Speaker 1: you know he should have recognized as his teammate and

847
00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:53,080
Speaker 1: he wasn't expecting to punch. Have you seen family members fight? Yes,

848
00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:56,880
Speaker 1: I certainly have, right, So, Um, I just think that

849
00:43:56,920 --> 00:43:58,640
Speaker 1: was a really bad moment for him. I think he

850
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:01,800
Speaker 1: recognizes that. I think he is honestly remorseful. But I

851
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:04,879
Speaker 1: don't see them coexisting. Jordan Pools should aduct because here's

852
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:07,480
Speaker 1: the thing. If you push somebody that hard, you gotta

853
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:11,759
Speaker 1: expect something is coming back, right Yeah, Um, I mean

854
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:14,560
Speaker 1: this is this is not Jordan's Poole's fault at all,

855
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:20,600
Speaker 1: but I think because of the finances, he won't be there. Yeah.

856
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:22,239
Speaker 1: You know, I was on the fence at first because

857
00:44:22,239 --> 00:44:24,440
Speaker 1: I was like, I don't know, because this might be

858
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:26,719
Speaker 1: one of those oh no, because of this incident, because

859
00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:28,400
Speaker 1: this might want to be one of those things that

860
00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:31,000
Speaker 1: like early in the season, there's certainly, you know, some

861
00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:34,319
Speaker 1: momentum that you have now, but the season drags on,

862
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:36,879
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know. I don't know how they

863
00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:40,319
Speaker 1: respond and are able to play when you have that

864
00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:42,879
Speaker 1: big of a issue. That's kind of right there. But

865
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:45,399
Speaker 1: these guys are veterans. I think they're hungry. I think

866
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:48,480
Speaker 1: they kind of know it's their last stand, so I

867
00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:51,000
Speaker 1: do I expect them to repeat as well. Ben Simmons

868
00:44:51,080 --> 00:45:02,520
Speaker 1: Russell Westbrook. What's the question? I mean, who's better? You know,

869
00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:05,600
Speaker 1: it's the one word that comes to your mind. Do

870
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:12,080
Speaker 1: you think Ben sim miss But you know, honestly, I

871
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:19,520
Speaker 1: feel really bad for Russell Westbrook because you know, especially no, no, no,

872
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:22,560
Speaker 1: I mean Ben Simmons. I think he's not as bad

873
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:26,279
Speaker 1: as people think, you know. And and what you hate

874
00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:28,400
Speaker 1: to see is when you look at an athlete and

875
00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:31,319
Speaker 1: you could tell psychologically something's going on, you know what

876
00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:34,839
Speaker 1: I'm saying, And it's just it feels like criticizing him.

877
00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:37,480
Speaker 1: And this is not to say that he doesn't deserve,

878
00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:40,839
Speaker 1: you know, some criticism, but it just feels like he's

879
00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:42,920
Speaker 1: mentally worn out. That's what he seems like to me.

880
00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:46,920
Speaker 1: Russell Westbrook is the same thing is that because Russell

881
00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:49,799
Speaker 1: it's clearly frustrated. I don't Russell doesn't want to play

882
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:52,839
Speaker 1: this shitty like he doesn't want to do that. But now,

883
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:55,920
Speaker 1: and this is the gift and curse of playing with Lebron.

884
00:45:56,160 --> 00:45:58,399
Speaker 1: It's never gonna be Lebron's fault. I'm not saying it is,

885
00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:02,160
Speaker 1: but the people that play around Lebron. Remember how the

886
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:04,000
Speaker 1: people used to be on Chris Bosh all the time,

887
00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:07,160
Speaker 1: like it's always somebody that when they play with them,

888
00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:11,680
Speaker 1: that becomes the target for all the frustration over you know, losing,

889
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:14,000
Speaker 1: over all of this. And it's Russell Westbrook. They have

890
00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:16,640
Speaker 1: made him the villain of the team. And I'm not

891
00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:19,319
Speaker 1: talking about the organization itself, but fans, you know, and

892
00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:22,719
Speaker 1: he's clearly struggling. I kind of agree with what Charles

893
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:24,920
Speaker 1: Barkley said. I don't really see the joy in his

894
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:27,279
Speaker 1: game like I used to. Like, he's certainly still a

895
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:30,719
Speaker 1: great athlete, but you'd be crazy not to think it's

896
00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:33,520
Speaker 1: not mentally wearing on him that he's not thinking about

897
00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:35,279
Speaker 1: this every time he takes a shot. The fact that

898
00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:37,520
Speaker 1: the fans are boring him. It reminds me of when

899
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:39,120
Speaker 1: Josh Smith played in Atlanta and every time he took

900
00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:41,080
Speaker 1: up three point in the crowd be like no, it's

901
00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:42,520
Speaker 1: like I feel like I hear that. And every time

902
00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:46,319
Speaker 1: Russell like takes a shot, like people are mad, right,

903
00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:49,520
Speaker 1: And so to play like that in your hometown, right,

904
00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:52,479
Speaker 1: and that's that's the vibe. You can't tell me that

905
00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:55,480
Speaker 1: that mentally that wouldn't break you a little bit. That's

906
00:46:55,520 --> 00:46:57,800
Speaker 1: interesting because I feel like Ben is mental and Russ

907
00:46:57,800 --> 00:47:00,319
Speaker 1: is just physical like us. Because Rust still out that

908
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:02,120
Speaker 1: energy and my confidence. I just don't know if he's

909
00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:04,040
Speaker 1: physically able to play the way he used to. I

910
00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:06,480
Speaker 1: mean I sensed the I sense certainly the energy. I

911
00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:08,000
Speaker 1: don't mean to make it sound like he's mailed an

912
00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:10,480
Speaker 1: innard like that, but it's like a joy that comes

913
00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:13,040
Speaker 1: to playing with basketball, and it doesn't feel like he's

914
00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:18,359
Speaker 1: playing with a lot of joy. That's how no cowboy questions.

915
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:25,120
Speaker 1: I thought I was gonna get some New York Giants.

916
00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:27,799
Speaker 1: I think the Giants look good, you know. I mean,

917
00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:30,680
Speaker 1: I'm sure Daniel Jones is thinking about how he got

918
00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:36,440
Speaker 1: slandered when they made that pick, and definitely the last

919
00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:38,200
Speaker 1: couple of years, but they didn't have as good of

920
00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:40,239
Speaker 1: a team, I think because they have now love Brian

921
00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:42,759
Speaker 1: day Ball, like you know it definitely one of those

922
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:45,080
Speaker 1: coaches I've been watching for a while, and so he

923
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:47,520
Speaker 1: felt he felt like he would be a good fit

924
00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:51,840
Speaker 1: for this team. So look New York Football Jet saying Giants.

925
00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:54,640
Speaker 1: You know Robert Salat like he was, I'm forty nine

926
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:57,320
Speaker 1: Ers fan. He was happening. By the way, I always

927
00:47:57,320 --> 00:48:02,520
Speaker 1: wonder about as as she's gonna be Allians fan. Yeah,

928
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:07,040
Speaker 1: I listen, I value my mental health and that was

929
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:10,879
Speaker 1: That's what you're talking about all the time, right, It's

930
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:15,280
Speaker 1: like mental health as wealth. For my mental health. I

931
00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:18,120
Speaker 1: was never Alliance fan. And it's crazy because my husband's

932
00:48:18,160 --> 00:48:20,000
Speaker 1: a huge Lions fan. He was at the Cowboys game.

933
00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:29,240
Speaker 1: And uh no, I mean so my mother, as y'all

934
00:48:29,239 --> 00:48:30,920
Speaker 1: know from being the book, you know, she spent some

935
00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:34,200
Speaker 1: time in Oakland, um, you know, and that's where I

936
00:48:34,200 --> 00:48:37,879
Speaker 1: was I think conceived, okay, and so because of that,

937
00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:40,560
Speaker 1: she liked the forty nine ers, and so you know,

938
00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:42,359
Speaker 1: she would root for the Lions and for the forty

939
00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:44,440
Speaker 1: nine ers. She really liked Joe Montana. That was like

940
00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:47,600
Speaker 1: one of her favorite players. And so I just you know,

941
00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:50,239
Speaker 1: they were winning and went with that team. Why would

942
00:48:50,239 --> 00:48:53,200
Speaker 1: you not go with the winning team? Right? So it's like, well, greted.

943
00:48:53,239 --> 00:48:55,120
Speaker 1: You grew up in South Carolina, so y'all didn't have

944
00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:57,279
Speaker 1: your own NFL team, and a lot of a lot

945
00:48:57,320 --> 00:49:01,560
Speaker 1: of black fans that were not in um NFL cities

946
00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:04,000
Speaker 1: were Cowboys fan. Even something that words like in DC

947
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:07,920
Speaker 1: you know, it's kind of a not so quiet secret.

948
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:10,520
Speaker 1: There's a lot of Cowboys fans in DC, right and

949
00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:13,000
Speaker 1: so at any rate, so I just became a fortey

950
00:49:13,080 --> 00:49:15,120
Speaker 1: nine Ers fan. I've been with him, um, you know,

951
00:49:15,239 --> 00:49:17,399
Speaker 1: ever since. But Robert Sali was like a great coach

952
00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:19,520
Speaker 1: for US. So I when he was going through that

953
00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:21,640
Speaker 1: last year with the Jets, I was like, this dude

954
00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:23,520
Speaker 1: about to shout. He about to show them because he's

955
00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:26,960
Speaker 1: got the he gets players to buy in, certainly from

956
00:49:26,960 --> 00:49:30,120
Speaker 1: a schematic standpoint, like he's a really good coach. What

957
00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:34,600
Speaker 1: about the cow Girls. I mean, offense still look a

958
00:49:34,640 --> 00:49:37,200
Speaker 1: little rough, Shore do look a little rough. But that defense,

959
00:49:37,239 --> 00:49:40,439
Speaker 1: it's a championship level defense. And this was the kind

960
00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:43,120
Speaker 1: of defense I wish Tony Romo would have had. You know,

961
00:49:43,160 --> 00:49:45,920
Speaker 1: that's that that's no, in no way a shot at

962
00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:49,719
Speaker 1: Dak Prescott. But people like to as you know, um,

963
00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:51,880
Speaker 1: they like to hate on Tony Robo, but they forget

964
00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:54,719
Speaker 1: that he had categorically some of the worst defenses in

965
00:49:54,880 --> 00:49:56,759
Speaker 1: NFL history. And I was like, damn, if they've had

966
00:49:56,760 --> 00:49:58,799
Speaker 1: this defense with him, y'all might have won it. Y'all

967
00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:01,560
Speaker 1: might have won a couple, but it didn't Giants got

968
00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:02,960
Speaker 1: the second best record in the league. You know who

969
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:06,200
Speaker 1: beat them? No, here we go, y'all go through this

970
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:09,600
Speaker 1: on the Daily Show. You know we beat the Giants, right,

971
00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:15,680
Speaker 1: the third best thing. But I like the Cowboys, but

972
00:50:15,719 --> 00:50:17,920
Speaker 1: you know I'm picking them over the forty n Right.

973
00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:21,680
Speaker 1: You know we're going to bowl the shit when championships.

974
00:50:21,719 --> 00:50:24,279
Speaker 1: We know, we know that in San Francisco. That's why

975
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:26,080
Speaker 1: we had to come to Dallas last year. Give y'all

976
00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:30,040
Speaker 1: a peace. Okay, we appreciate you for you go get

977
00:50:30,120 --> 00:50:34,239
Speaker 1: up Hills all right now much. I appreciate y'all. Oh,

978
00:50:34,280 --> 00:50:35,640
Speaker 1: and I just wanted to say one last thing about

979
00:50:35,719 --> 00:50:38,160
Speaker 1: Jamil Hill. When I announced my show, she called me

980
00:50:38,200 --> 00:50:40,440
Speaker 1: in the middle of the night from Portugal. You're in Portugal. No,

981
00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:42,880
Speaker 1: I wasn't in Portugal, but I was. I was somewhere

982
00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:44,719
Speaker 1: out of the country. Was I in France? Maybe I

983
00:50:44,719 --> 00:50:51,279
Speaker 1: was in south of France hanging with this dude said remember, oh, yeah,

984
00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:52,719
Speaker 1: you were here. Okay, so maybe I was, but I

985
00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:55,319
Speaker 1: was gone. She was gone. I went on the night.

986
00:50:55,440 --> 00:50:57,799
Speaker 1: She was like, I just want to say congratulations. I

987
00:50:57,920 --> 00:51:01,399
Speaker 1: was like that, it's so nice. Yeah, No, July, I'm

988
00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:03,399
Speaker 1: really proud of you for doing your thing. And as

989
00:51:03,440 --> 00:51:04,920
Speaker 1: I wrote in the note to you in the in

990
00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:08,480
Speaker 1: the book, is that you um you know the agency

991
00:51:08,560 --> 00:51:12,000
Speaker 1: you betting on yourself. Like that's very not just admirable,

992
00:51:12,040 --> 00:51:15,000
Speaker 1: but it's very inspiring for somebody like me who throughout

993
00:51:15,040 --> 00:51:17,359
Speaker 1: this this season of my career, that's what I've done.

994
00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:20,240
Speaker 1: It's like better myself. So I love seeing other women

995
00:51:20,360 --> 00:51:27,200
Speaker 1: do um. You know the same thing, y'all. Get on,

996
00:51:27,320 --> 00:51:29,399
Speaker 1: my girl. Let me tell you something. I was late.

997
00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:31,560
Speaker 1: They were v with stressed because he had to do

998
00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:40,120
Speaker 1: my job. Because you want me to leave. Thank you.

999
00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:43,200
Speaker 1: Get up Hill, Jamal Hill her memoirs out right now.

1000
00:51:43,400 --> 00:51:47,640
Speaker 1: It's right. I'm trying to be a best seller, y'all. Oh,