1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: The dollar is under attack from the United States. What 2 00:00:04,320 --> 00:00:06,680 Speaker 1: the heck does that mean? Well, it means what it 3 00:00:06,760 --> 00:00:11,840 Speaker 1: says is the United States dollar under attack from within. Well, 4 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:15,120 Speaker 1: my guest today a living legend is Rick Rule, and 5 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:18,439 Speaker 1: he says that it's not China and not Russia attacking 6 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:21,680 Speaker 1: the dollar, It's happening from within. So we're gonna dig 7 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 1: into the banking crisis. We're gonna explain what happened. Now, 8 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 1: he started a bank, sold a bank, he started another bank. 9 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:29,840 Speaker 1: He knows what happens in banks. We're gonna talk about 10 00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:33,080 Speaker 1: the banking crisis. We're gonna talk about what's happened in 11 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:36,960 Speaker 1: the investing market that's driven people and banks and consumers 12 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:39,760 Speaker 1: to this point. We're going to talk about the what 13 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:42,400 Speaker 1: the bank and what the governments are doing to restrict 14 00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 1: the flow of capital and keep it trapped in the system. 15 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:47,200 Speaker 1: We're going to talk about the move from fiat currencies, 16 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:51,200 Speaker 1: how the dollar is dying and the move to commodity 17 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:53,440 Speaker 1: money is changing. We're going to talk about energy markets. 18 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:55,640 Speaker 1: We're gonna talk about central bank digital currencies, and even 19 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:58,320 Speaker 1: his view on bitcoin. We covered a lot of grounds. 20 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 1: This is amazing conversation with Rick Rule. Now, one thing 21 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 1: I do want to say is I want to point 22 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:05,160 Speaker 1: your direction attention down to the description down below, because 23 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:07,399 Speaker 1: he has made an offer. He has a living legend, 24 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:09,920 Speaker 1: a resource investing legend, and if you go to his 25 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:13,080 Speaker 1: website and you post him what your energy or i'm 26 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:17,520 Speaker 1: sorry your resource investments are, he will personally grade them 27 00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:20,680 Speaker 1: for you. Wow, I can't believe you made that opportunity 28 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:23,720 Speaker 1: for everybody listening. So check it out in description. Message him. 29 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:25,840 Speaker 1: Don't take don't pass up that opportunity to have him 30 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:28,760 Speaker 1: look at your own investments in the resource space. He's 31 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:31,040 Speaker 1: something like a legend. Anyway, let's go ahead, just jump 32 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:34,040 Speaker 1: right into this interview with Rick Rule. So you know, 33 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 1: I know you had started a bank, you built a bank, 34 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:40,959 Speaker 1: you sold a bank. I know you work on another 35 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:43,600 Speaker 1: bank right now. But let's talk about the banks. That 36 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 1: seems to be like the biggest topic of the hour 37 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 1: at this point. The banks are melting down. It's a 38 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 1: banking crisis. Coming from somebody who is working in the 39 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 1: banking industry building a bank and now building a new bank. 40 00:01:56,680 --> 00:01:58,640 Speaker 1: What's your take on this banking crisis? 41 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 2: You know, mark banking is a pretty simple business if 42 00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 2: you do it right. It's really about blocking and tackling. 43 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:09,000 Speaker 2: I joke for forty five years and I've basically been 44 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:14,079 Speaker 2: a used money salesman. It's important, however, to get things right. 45 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:18,359 Speaker 2: Banking is a h fairly highly leveraged business, and that 46 00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:20,560 Speaker 2: means that you have to be prudent and you have 47 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:25,560 Speaker 2: to implement the idea. As an example, that you would 48 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:32,919 Speaker 2: fund a long bond portfolio with very short dated instruments 49 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:36,760 Speaker 2: is the same thing that brought down the savings and 50 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:41,240 Speaker 2: loan industry. It isn't something that the banking business hasn't 51 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 2: seen before. Credit spreads at present are very very attractive 52 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 2: for bankers, credit spreads being the difference between their cost 53 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 2: of funds and their return on capital employed, provided that 54 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 2: the banks get paid back their return on capital employed. 55 00:02:59,880 --> 00:03:03,240 Speaker 2: It's interesting that Silicon Valley Bank, as an example, had 56 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:08,959 Speaker 2: enough expertise in lending that their primary lending portfolio worked 57 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:12,680 Speaker 2: fairly well despite the risky nature of many of the 58 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 2: venture loans that they've made. Their problem came because they 59 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 2: were chasing yield in a place and in a way 60 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:26,519 Speaker 2: that I think was inappropriate. It's strange an inverted yield 61 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:30,680 Speaker 2: curve world that they moved out maturities to four or 62 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:35,240 Speaker 2: five years, rather than keeping them tight to change differentials 63 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 2: in yield that were fairly low. Albeit perhaps when they 64 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 2: put the positions on two or three years ago, those 65 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:46,880 Speaker 2: longer dated yields were higher. The fact is that if 66 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:51,480 Speaker 2: you have four or five year maturities that you are 67 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:56,240 Speaker 2: funding with now deposits and demand deposits, you always put 68 00:03:56,320 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 2: yourself in a precarious position. When the interest rates went up, 69 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 2: of course, the stated value of those long duration bonds fell, 70 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:11,040 Speaker 2: wiping out, in effect, the tangible book of the bank. 71 00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 2: I guess the second problem that they faced Mark, which 72 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:16,719 Speaker 2: a lot of people are talking about, is the unstable 73 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 2: nature of their deposits, which is saying that they didn't 74 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:24,400 Speaker 2: sell deposits to Rick Ruler Mark Moss. They sold deposits 75 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:27,839 Speaker 2: that were uninsured in very large amounts to two classes 76 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:32,279 Speaker 2: of deposit or, one being venture capital firms that would 77 00:04:32,320 --> 00:04:36,919 Speaker 2: deposit subscription receipts that hadn't been invested in venture capital 78 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:46,200 Speaker 2: partnerships yet, and secondly, the capital raised by technology companies 79 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:52,200 Speaker 2: that hadn't yet been deployed. As uh cost of capital 80 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:56,360 Speaker 2: went up and capital became less very available to technology companies, 81 00:04:56,560 --> 00:04:58,920 Speaker 2: beginning about a year and a half ago. Those two 82 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:02,159 Speaker 2: sources of new fund dried up at the same time 83 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 2: that both the funds and the companies ran down their 84 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:10,320 Speaker 2: existing deposits, So Silicon Valley Bank had a critical, I think, 85 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:14,440 Speaker 2: liquidity squeeze. The bottom line of this for your listeners, Mark, 86 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:19,599 Speaker 2: is that the only regulator who really makes a difference 87 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:22,039 Speaker 2: for you as a banking investor, a borrow or a 88 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:26,280 Speaker 2: lender is you yourself. Silicon Valley was described by the 89 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:29,720 Speaker 2: regulators as being very in very good condition forty eight 90 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:34,320 Speaker 2: hours before its demise, but the FED. 91 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:36,800 Speaker 1: But then the FED said, we saw last November that 92 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:40,120 Speaker 1: they were there was danger in morning signs. 93 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 2: It would have been useful had they communicated that to 94 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 2: the market, Yeah, right, rather than trying to avert panic. 95 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:51,400 Speaker 2: My suggestion to you is simply that investors need to 96 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:54,520 Speaker 2: pay attention for themselves. They need to pay attention to 97 00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 2: a few things that you can learn from a bank 98 00:05:56,440 --> 00:06:00,200 Speaker 2: statement of financial condition, which they're required to provide for 99 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:03,320 Speaker 2: you if you ask for it. The first is equity 100 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 2: is a percentage of total assets. The FED says that 101 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:11,120 Speaker 2: a well capitalized bank has equity of seven percent of 102 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:15,920 Speaker 2: total assets. An old guy like me prefers ten to seven. 103 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:18,640 Speaker 2: Suffice it to say, a bank that has a seven 104 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:22,800 Speaker 2: percent equity slices over ninety percent leveraged, there isn't much 105 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:27,240 Speaker 2: room for error. The second thing that one must look at, 106 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:29,599 Speaker 2: and the banks must show you this if you ask, 107 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 2: is duration risk, which is to say, the median duration 108 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:39,120 Speaker 2: of their deposit base versus the median duration and liquidity 109 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:42,680 Speaker 2: of their assets. You can spot what Silicon Valley Bank 110 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:46,320 Speaker 2: has done. In fact, there are numerous web websites now 111 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:50,240 Speaker 2: that show you the mark to market liability of the 112 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:54,159 Speaker 2: chartered banks in thenited states. The third ratio that that 113 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:58,120 Speaker 2: your client should look at, both as borrowers and also 114 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 2: as depositors is the ratio of cash or near cash 115 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:08,280 Speaker 2: on bank balance sheets relative to their deposit liabilities. An 116 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:12,240 Speaker 2: intelligently capitalized bank has cash or near cash, that is 117 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:17,400 Speaker 2: to say, ninety day obligations or repos or overnight deposits 118 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 2: equal to twenty or twenty five percent of their now 119 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:27,600 Speaker 2: or near term deposit liabilities. Relying on the regulators, relying 120 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:31,160 Speaker 2: on the investment banks, relying on people like that to 121 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:34,520 Speaker 2: do basic due diligence obviously doesn't work. We should have 122 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:37,080 Speaker 2: learned that with Madeoff. We should have learned that with Enron, 123 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 2: but we didn't. 124 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:42,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I love what you're saying. There something I've 125 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 1: been saying, like the age of personal responsibility is coming 126 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:50,360 Speaker 1: back really hard. We've given our health care to the government, 127 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:53,120 Speaker 1: our education to the government, our pensance to the government, 128 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 1: our health to our doctor. We've just shrugged off every 129 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:58,640 Speaker 1: single piece of personal responsibility. But we're all finding out 130 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 1: why that's a problem. Which you take personal responsibility. I 131 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:04,320 Speaker 1: wanted to talk about who's supposed to be protecting us? 132 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:06,360 Speaker 1: But before we do, what about if we're looking at 133 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 1: the bank, what about like the clos that they're hiding. 134 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:14,480 Speaker 2: Well, if you're asking me about unexploded bombs, I guess 135 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:15,960 Speaker 2: is what you're asking me about. 136 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:17,600 Speaker 1: Because those seem to be very hard to see. What's 137 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:19,880 Speaker 1: lurking un a balance sheet on and Wells Fargo is 138 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:21,680 Speaker 1: like on page one hundred and forty and it wasn't 139 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:23,280 Speaker 1: even fully disclosed. It didn't seem like. 140 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 2: I can tell you what bothers me, and you know 141 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:27,800 Speaker 2: more about real estate than me. I've been a real 142 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 2: estate lender and a real estate beneficiary, but not a 143 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:34,679 Speaker 2: real estate operator. I think the high ratio loans in 144 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:39,600 Speaker 2: commercial real estate pose a potential problem for banks. I 145 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:42,520 Speaker 2: realized for some borrowers they're a very pleasant thing, but 146 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:44,760 Speaker 2: for a lender they can be unpleasant. When I was 147 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:48,840 Speaker 2: more active in banking, I considered a reasonable ratio for 148 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 2: a commercial loan to be sixty five to seventy percent LTV. 149 00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 2: I thought seventy was a bit aggressive. Lots of banks 150 00:08:56,400 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 2: have been rating eighty five and ninety percent commercial firsts. 151 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:06,160 Speaker 2: I think that's problematic. The second thing that's problematic is 152 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:09,640 Speaker 2: that the senior secured doesn't always put in place a 153 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:12,560 Speaker 2: negative pledge, which is to say, even though they're in first, 154 00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:15,320 Speaker 2: they don't restrict a borrower's ability to take on a 155 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:17,959 Speaker 2: second or a third to the extent that some barrow 156 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:20,679 Speaker 2: hors have taken out more than one hundred percent of 157 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:23,599 Speaker 2: the value of the project, and in liquidation and bankruptcy, 158 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:30,360 Speaker 2: that becomes a problem settling up the estate between various claimants. 159 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:33,320 Speaker 2: As I say, I'm not particularly an expert on many 160 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:36,800 Speaker 2: aspects of commercial real estate, but I notice that virtually 161 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:39,960 Speaker 2: every aspect, as an example of the office market, is 162 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:44,959 Speaker 2: experiencing some distress, and I suspect that banks that made 163 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:48,080 Speaker 2: office loans without understanding an awful lot about the collater 164 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:51,040 Speaker 2: and an awful lot about the borrower have some things 165 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:55,199 Speaker 2: to face. I think too, the banks that invested in 166 00:09:55,720 --> 00:10:02,560 Speaker 2: mortgage bonds without understanding the constituent bond, the constituents of 167 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:10,080 Speaker 2: the bond, pardon me, probably face some difficulties. I think 168 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:13,200 Speaker 2: the third area where there are unexploded bombs mark and 169 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:15,080 Speaker 2: I think it's true in the ETF world as well 170 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:18,600 Speaker 2: as the banking world is in the general high yield 171 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 2: or junk credit arena. Investors have been chasing yield without 172 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:28,839 Speaker 2: regard to credit quality for at least ten years. As 173 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:32,000 Speaker 2: long as interest rates were falling and borrowers had access 174 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:35,199 Speaker 2: to ever cheaper credit and lots of credit, life was good. 175 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:40,800 Speaker 2: With various lenders now trying to repair their own balance sheets, borrowers' 176 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:43,199 Speaker 2: ability to refinance, both in terms of real estate and 177 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:45,640 Speaker 2: junk credit is going to be constrained. That's going to 178 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:49,840 Speaker 2: be a problem. And the related problem I seated banking 179 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:52,960 Speaker 2: is in the ETFs, where you have these junk credit ETFs, 180 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:57,440 Speaker 2: where retail investors have chased yield, and where the ETF 181 00:10:57,480 --> 00:11:01,839 Speaker 2: itself is highly highly liquid. But the parts that make 182 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:05,120 Speaker 2: up the ETF. The junk bonds are very very illiquid. 183 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:09,720 Speaker 2: If you have a circumstance where Joe citizen becomes concerned 184 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:13,400 Speaker 2: about credit quality and begins to redeem their ETFs in size, 185 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:17,599 Speaker 2: and the ETF manager tries to sell the underlying securities, 186 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:20,800 Speaker 2: which are illiquid, you could have a run on a 187 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:25,679 Speaker 2: different sort of bank. I'm reminded of my career as 188 00:11:25,679 --> 00:11:29,600 Speaker 2: a young stockbroker where we described I liquid bonds as 189 00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:33,800 Speaker 2: owl bonds. We call them owl bonds because the customer 190 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:36,360 Speaker 2: would call the broker to sell, and the broker would 191 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:41,680 Speaker 2: say to who, to who? And I'm afraid that both 192 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:45,319 Speaker 2: bankers and ETF managers are going to discover the perils 193 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:50,800 Speaker 2: of weak credits and I liquid secondary markets, much to 194 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:51,480 Speaker 2: their chagrin. 195 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:56,559 Speaker 1: You know, as you were explaining all of this unstable 196 00:11:56,559 --> 00:12:01,720 Speaker 1: deposits and a mismatch on durations and not enough equity, 197 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:03,560 Speaker 1: but really you summed it up by saying, you know 198 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:07,280 Speaker 1: the nature of their depositors Silicon Valley, massive deposits. Now 199 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:09,679 Speaker 1: they're getting with draws, but they're not having enough deposits. 200 00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:12,160 Speaker 1: And the whole time I'm just thinking, sounds like a 201 00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 1: Ponzi scheme, like a Ponzi scheme, Like as long as 202 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:17,560 Speaker 1: there's more going in than coming out, everything's fine. But 203 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:19,960 Speaker 1: as soon as that reverses the whole thing on winds, 204 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:25,240 Speaker 1: it seems like and it seems like it's being unwound. Well, 205 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:28,520 Speaker 1: it doesn't seem like it. Well, the FED seems to 206 00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:31,640 Speaker 1: be the arsonist and the firefighter here, right. So in 207 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:36,080 Speaker 1: a sense, they took yield to zero and pushed everybody out, 208 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:39,160 Speaker 1: as you said, chasing yields. So everyone's chasing yield going 209 00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:41,080 Speaker 1: into these junk bonds things like that. Because rates are 210 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:44,920 Speaker 1: at zero. Then the FED raises rates to five percent. 211 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 1: Everyone's like, oh, what the heck am I in this 212 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:49,240 Speaker 1: junk for I'll just go to the treasury for five percent? 213 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 1: And that drained all that that's draining all the liquidity 214 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:54,760 Speaker 1: out of these things, which is then starting to cause 215 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:57,960 Speaker 1: this liquidity crisis. Is that potentially the way you'd see it. 216 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:03,559 Speaker 2: I see the artificial manipulation of interest rates by the 217 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:08,520 Speaker 2: political class, not just the FED, as being an extraordinary problem. 218 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:12,120 Speaker 2: I would rather see free markets and interest rates. Of course, 219 00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:15,679 Speaker 2: that would be chaotic, but I think it would be honest. 220 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:18,840 Speaker 2: And the artificial manipulation of interest rates down and then 221 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:19,920 Speaker 2: the recovery up. 222 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:24,280 Speaker 1: Would it be chaotok to get there? Or you think 223 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:27,120 Speaker 1: in a free market where money was priced by the market, 224 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:27,960 Speaker 1: that would be kadok. 225 00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:31,640 Speaker 2: Yes and yes, okay. You know, the truth is that 226 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:36,079 Speaker 2: while markets work, they're invariably very messy, and price discovery 227 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:39,120 Speaker 2: is an ongoing circumstance, and it is in fact messy, 228 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:42,480 Speaker 2: and people don't like messy. That doesn't much matter. I 229 00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:45,240 Speaker 2: think it's disingenuous to blame the FED for all of it, though. 230 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:48,440 Speaker 2: I think that investors have been through forty years of 231 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:52,560 Speaker 2: benign economic climate and we've been lulled into a sense 232 00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 2: of security. We've been lolled into believing that we can 233 00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:58,560 Speaker 2: consign our future as you suggest, be it medical or 234 00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:00,920 Speaker 2: financial or anything else, to the big thinkers, and I 235 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:03,680 Speaker 2: think that's an enormous mistake. I think that the FED 236 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:08,200 Speaker 2: has accommodated our own individual stupidity, and given that the 237 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:11,400 Speaker 2: FED is a political creature, I think it's important that 238 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:14,760 Speaker 2: we recapture a sense of responsibility for own future. Listen, 239 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:16,760 Speaker 2: I'm in front of the FED right now starting a 240 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:19,120 Speaker 2: new bank, and I got to tell you, the young 241 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:21,240 Speaker 2: employees of the FED that I have to deal with 242 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:28,520 Speaker 2: superb human beings, much to my dismay, smart, nice, curious, 243 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:34,160 Speaker 2: hard working, But they work for an organization that is political. 244 00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:38,040 Speaker 2: They work for an organization where their success or failure 245 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:42,600 Speaker 2: is human beings, is determined by Congress. That's not so good. 246 00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:46,400 Speaker 2: I don't think it's going to change. So the idea 247 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:53,200 Speaker 2: that individuals, be they depositors, borrowers, or bank shareholders, need 248 00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 2: to rely on their own resources rather than on the FED, 249 00:14:56,640 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 2: on the OCC and on the FDIC. 250 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:03,440 Speaker 1: Do you think that you know, there's the saying of 251 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:05,920 Speaker 1: a general is always fighting the last war. And so 252 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:08,960 Speaker 1: obviously everyone still has the PTSD from two thousand and eight, 253 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:10,880 Speaker 1: and we had the banking collapse, the banking crisis. So 254 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:13,640 Speaker 1: everyone's looking now, oh, the banking crisis, the banking crisis. 255 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:18,280 Speaker 1: It seems that yes, there's problems in the banking sector, 256 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:22,040 Speaker 1: but it seems like this is something much bigger, potentially 257 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:25,160 Speaker 1: the unwinding of a one hundred year sovereign debt crisis. 258 00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 1: And it's the sovereign debt crisis that's then causing the 259 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:32,200 Speaker 1: strain into the banks in the commercial real estate, et cetera. 260 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:37,760 Speaker 1: What's your take on that on it. From a bigger picture, I. 261 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:39,520 Speaker 2: Guess I sort of hope that there is a sovereign 262 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:44,560 Speaker 2: debt crisis. Understand that the sovereigns regard me as collateral. 263 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:53,560 Speaker 2: Their ability to solve this crisis involves ringing more blood 264 00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:54,760 Speaker 2: out of my stone. 265 00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:59,640 Speaker 1: Stones don't have a lot of blow. Stones don't have 266 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:01,880 Speaker 1: a lot of blood. That's the problem. 267 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:04,040 Speaker 2: I recognize that, but they seem to believe that I do. 268 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:07,240 Speaker 2: The part of the I mean, the part of the 269 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 2: sovereign debt crisis that causes people to lose faith in 270 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:14,960 Speaker 2: government securities and at the same time actually causes people 271 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:17,640 Speaker 2: to believe that the size of government should be constrained 272 00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:23,960 Speaker 2: is something that I applaud. The idea being, however, that 273 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:26,960 Speaker 2: the answer to the sovereign debt crisis is to find 274 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:33,120 Speaker 2: more resources from the citizenry to fund more official sector 275 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:37,560 Speaker 2: stupidity is not particularly attractive to me, Mark, and I 276 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:41,040 Speaker 2: suspect it's not particularly attractive to you. The idea that 277 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:43,960 Speaker 2: you may be referring to is the idea that we 278 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:49,840 Speaker 2: rely on the commonwealth as a solution to every want 279 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:53,240 Speaker 2: and need in society, rather than relying on ourselves. And 280 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:57,440 Speaker 2: I completely agree with you there, and I completely agree 281 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:01,680 Speaker 2: that the idea than in addition to having the government 282 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:05,159 Speaker 2: satisfy all of our wants and needs, that they should 283 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:08,520 Speaker 2: satisfy them with quantitative easing, which, by the way, if 284 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:12,760 Speaker 2: Mark Moss did it would be called counterfeiting or through borrowing. 285 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:16,080 Speaker 2: The idea that we're spending our children and our grandchildren's 286 00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:18,760 Speaker 2: money to satisfy our wants and needs is I think 287 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:20,600 Speaker 2: the author of the sovereign crisis. 288 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:24,800 Speaker 1: I think if if it was really trying to squeeze 289 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:27,359 Speaker 1: more blood out of us, I think that would be 290 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:29,200 Speaker 1: met with a lot of resistance. But of course they 291 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:33,119 Speaker 1: silently and secretly inflate it without asking us, right, and 292 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:36,240 Speaker 1: so secretly they print themselves more money, so it's not 293 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:39,480 Speaker 1: really coming directly from the Commonwealth, and that lies in 294 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:39,879 Speaker 1: the problem. 295 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:40,040 Speaker 2: Right. 296 00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:42,040 Speaker 1: If they had to go house to house begging for gold, 297 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:44,040 Speaker 1: like in King Richard's day, it would be a whole 298 00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:46,480 Speaker 1: lot different story. But instead they inflated away, and so 299 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:51,040 Speaker 1: you know, now they're in this situation where we're seeing 300 00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:53,680 Speaker 1: nations around the world high inflation. War tends to be 301 00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:55,960 Speaker 1: very inflationary. Nations around the world are being forced to 302 00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:59,920 Speaker 1: liquidate government bonds to pay for high energy costs, for example, 303 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:02,760 Speaker 1: and just a little bit of bond selling starts to 304 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:06,680 Speaker 1: unravel and cause massive volatility in the treasury markets. And 305 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:10,120 Speaker 1: then we have this massive volatility which is then being 306 00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:13,600 Speaker 1: responded with more printing, and it says more of the 307 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:15,240 Speaker 1: same problem that just causes a bigger problem. 308 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:18,159 Speaker 2: It seems like, you know, Mark, I shouldn't laugh so 309 00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:23,680 Speaker 2: hard that I have seen this before. In some support 310 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:26,840 Speaker 2: of what you just said, I note that the government 311 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:29,360 Speaker 2: just extended the banks as sort of a financial lifeline 312 00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:32,439 Speaker 2: of two hundred billion dollars and they did that without 313 00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:36,520 Speaker 2: borrowing it and without raising tax. Now, how did they 314 00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:39,879 Speaker 2: do that? They must have printed it. They must have 315 00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:45,320 Speaker 2: conjured it up. You know. In addition to all the 316 00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:47,399 Speaker 2: other problems that you and I have discussed, we have 317 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:50,159 Speaker 2: to discuss quantitative easy because it really truly is counterfeiting. 318 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:55,120 Speaker 2: The printing of new specious currency units does not make 319 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:59,440 Speaker 2: existing units more valuable, the opposite, And we need to 320 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:02,880 Speaker 2: understand end that that constitutes a tax in an end 321 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:07,439 Speaker 2: of itself. We just don't feel it. We don't feel 322 00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 2: it coming out of our paychecks. Although if your income 323 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:16,359 Speaker 2: tax and capital gains tax aren't indexed to inflation. Perhaps 324 00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:18,480 Speaker 2: you do see it coming directly out of your paycheck 325 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:21,520 Speaker 2: or out of what your paycheck will buy you. Yes, 326 00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:23,600 Speaker 2: after they take their bite. 327 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:27,200 Speaker 1: Yeah. I just read this book and I interviewed the author. 328 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:30,440 Speaker 1: It's called The Revolt of the Public, and it talks 329 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:32,520 Speaker 1: about how the rise of the Internet and all this 330 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:36,480 Speaker 1: information that goes around and through the internet spread information 331 00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:39,040 Speaker 1: has led to all these revolts and overthrows of the government. 332 00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:41,200 Speaker 1: And he spent a lot of time in twenty eleven 333 00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:46,040 Speaker 1: talking about Arab Spring and what happened in Egypt and 334 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:48,480 Speaker 1: Syria and Tunisia and all of those things, and even 335 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:51,520 Speaker 1: Occupy Wall Street, which happened in twenty eleven. And it 336 00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:54,119 Speaker 1: seemed like as I was reading the accounts of all 337 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:58,520 Speaker 1: these happening, it all was traced back to people were 338 00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:00,920 Speaker 1: ready to revolt, like we're seeing in France today when 339 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:05,399 Speaker 1: their cost of when their quality of life goes down, 340 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:09,000 Speaker 1: when inflation affects, then when they can't buy as much food, 341 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:12,159 Speaker 1: that seems to be the trigger point for all of this. 342 00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:15,080 Speaker 1: Even today in France are saying, oh, it's you know, 343 00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:17,960 Speaker 1: we have to raise the retirement age by two years. 344 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:20,760 Speaker 1: But it's all about that quality of life, that's that 345 00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:21,639 Speaker 1: silent tax. 346 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:27,439 Speaker 2: I think what you say is very, very correct. I 347 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:30,760 Speaker 2: think on the one hand, what the French you're doing 348 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:36,240 Speaker 2: is revolting against arithmetic. They're suggesting that raising the retirement 349 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:39,760 Speaker 2: age from sixty two to sixty four is somehow some 350 00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:43,959 Speaker 2: enormous travesty, when in fact it's a reflection of the 351 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:48,399 Speaker 2: financial ability of the French state to support their citizenry. 352 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:51,800 Speaker 2: On the other hand, I think the Citistry have come 353 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:58,719 Speaker 2: to understand that they have each voted themselves too much 354 00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:03,000 Speaker 2: mono from heaven. Everybody seems to believe that mana from 355 00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:06,600 Speaker 2: heaven that they receive is justified, but any mona from 356 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:09,520 Speaker 2: heaven that someone else receives as a consequence of their 357 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:15,240 Speaker 2: effort is some crime against humanity. And I agree with 358 00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:22,160 Speaker 2: you one hundred percent. In a politicized world, we believe 359 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:25,760 Speaker 2: that we have calls on the wealth and efforts of others, 360 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:30,680 Speaker 2: but we try to defend ourselves against other people's claims 361 00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:39,159 Speaker 2: against us. When the allocation of benefit is occurs politically, 362 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:42,800 Speaker 2: rather than from servicing your customer, you come to believe 363 00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:45,679 Speaker 2: yourself to be politically entitled and to the extent that 364 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:48,160 Speaker 2: there's a failure, you don't accept blame for the failure, 365 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:51,600 Speaker 2: You assign blame on society as a consequence of that, 366 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:54,359 Speaker 2: you revolt against it. And we're seeing that around the world. 367 00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:59,199 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm curious, you know, on your take on when 368 00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:02,280 Speaker 1: you look back through when you see the end of 369 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:05,200 Speaker 1: the empire coming. It seems like one of the last 370 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:08,959 Speaker 1: final stages of these empires is to restrict capital flows 371 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:11,840 Speaker 1: and so capital controls, because they know if they don't 372 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:14,480 Speaker 1: keep that capital in, the whole thing collapses. And it's 373 00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:17,240 Speaker 1: not just a historical lens. That's why China doesn't want 374 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:20,480 Speaker 1: to have open capital markets, and so it seems that, 375 00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:24,080 Speaker 1: you know, maybe that's sort of this stage that we're 376 00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:26,560 Speaker 1: in the United States right now, is capital control laws. 377 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:28,960 Speaker 1: And so, you know, I don't know how much you've 378 00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:30,840 Speaker 1: been paying attention to some of the headlines. There's a 379 00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:33,480 Speaker 1: talk of this choke point two point zero coming back 380 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:36,600 Speaker 1: out where the banks are starting to restrict flows. Potentially 381 00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:40,919 Speaker 1: these three banks that went down Silvergates, SBB and then 382 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:44,080 Speaker 1: Signature we're all crypto friendly banks, and so are they 383 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:47,160 Speaker 1: taking down these banks to take out these crypto exits? 384 00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:51,000 Speaker 1: Are they doing everything can to block the exits to 385 00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:54,960 Speaker 1: keep this capital control in. And then there's two more examples. Recently, 386 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:57,520 Speaker 1: Caitlin Long she tried to get a new bank charter 387 00:22:57,600 --> 00:22:59,960 Speaker 1: open called Custodia Bank, which was going to be a 388 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:02,560 Speaker 1: full reserve bank. They're going to keep one hundred and 389 00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:04,479 Speaker 1: percent of reserves, and the FED shot them down. They 390 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:06,680 Speaker 1: shot down another bank called Narrow Bank for the same thing. 391 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:09,240 Speaker 1: They don't want a full reserve bank because then everybody 392 00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:11,160 Speaker 1: would go to that full reserve bank and it would 393 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:15,480 Speaker 1: drain all liquidity. So it seems what's your take on 394 00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:17,480 Speaker 1: trying to restrict their Capitalpholles, Do you think that's what 395 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:19,280 Speaker 1: they're doing. I know you're trying to open a bank. 396 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:26,520 Speaker 2: I haven't seen, as an investor who invests internationally, anything 397 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:30,040 Speaker 2: that I could describe as a concerted federal effort to 398 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:33,560 Speaker 2: cause me not to be able to invest or deposit 399 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:39,240 Speaker 2: money overseas. Certainly, know your client regulation and the extra 400 00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:46,119 Speaker 2: territorial imposition of American law on foreign institutions makes my 401 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:51,879 Speaker 2: international investing more cumbersome. I think that's probably more a 402 00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:57,720 Speaker 2: function of stupidity than perniciousness on their part. I'm amazed 403 00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:03,639 Speaker 2: that Caitlin Long's application wasn't accepted. I don't know the 404 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:06,960 Speaker 2: reason for that. I would assume that it's in the 405 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:11,240 Speaker 2: interest of the American consumer to have many different approaches 406 00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:17,000 Speaker 2: to safeguarding savings, and I suspect that most of the 407 00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:21,200 Speaker 2: employees of the banking regulators feel the same. When the 408 00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:24,600 Speaker 2: employees of the banking regulators looked at our application for 409 00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:28,480 Speaker 2: Battle Bank and they understood that our mission was to 410 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:32,520 Speaker 2: be a community bank where community was defined by needs 411 00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:36,520 Speaker 2: and values rather than by locality, I would describe them 412 00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:40,760 Speaker 2: as very, very, very supportive. I can only say that 413 00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:45,439 Speaker 2: thus far, the reception that we've had from the regulatory agencies, 414 00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:48,560 Speaker 2: perhaps because we've been involved as a group and so 415 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:52,080 Speaker 2: many banks before, perhaps because we're known entities and not 416 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:56,280 Speaker 2: threats to career, the response that we've enjoyed has been 417 00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:59,080 Speaker 2: much better than the responses that have been enjoyed by others. 418 00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:03,800 Speaker 2: Now will say that all three agencies asked us point 419 00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:08,240 Speaker 2: blank what our view with regards to crypto was, and 420 00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:11,560 Speaker 2: our response was, we didn't understand very much about crypto, 421 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:15,240 Speaker 2: and we had no interest in lending against or accepting 422 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:19,120 Speaker 2: these deposits asset classes that we had no experience in 423 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:24,280 Speaker 2: we didn't describe ourselves as anti crypto. We described ourselves 424 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:27,760 Speaker 2: as focused on asset classes that we understood. But I 425 00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:30,840 Speaker 2: need to say that all three agencies were very relieved 426 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:31,920 Speaker 2: to hear that response. 427 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:36,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's certainly something that I've been 428 00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:39,640 Speaker 1: thinking about. Is it is it really trying to choke 429 00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:43,440 Speaker 1: off money exiting the system, or is it specifically trying 430 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:47,440 Speaker 1: to choke off fraud inside the crypto industry? And so 431 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:49,719 Speaker 1: you can certainly look at it from either lens. That's 432 00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:50,960 Speaker 1: why I was just kind of curious to get your 433 00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:53,880 Speaker 1: take when I see what happened with Caitlin Longs Bank, 434 00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:55,840 Speaker 1: though you know, apparently she had already kind of passed 435 00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:58,320 Speaker 1: all these regulators and at the end was denied, and 436 00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:01,399 Speaker 1: it just seemed like they didn't want that competition of 437 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:05,040 Speaker 1: a full reserve bank and what that could do. Because 438 00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:07,240 Speaker 1: at the end of the day, it's something that I 439 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:10,040 Speaker 1: want to talk about, which is it seems back to 440 00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:11,760 Speaker 1: that kind of book that revolted the public, and what 441 00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:14,760 Speaker 1: it talks about is that now information moves so freely 442 00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:19,680 Speaker 1: that we don't put value, We don't trust these authority 443 00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:22,840 Speaker 1: figures anymore, no longer does CNN carry the weight or 444 00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:25,919 Speaker 1: legitimacy that they used to. Now it's Matt Tayibe on 445 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:29,960 Speaker 1: substack or something like that. And information moves so fast, 446 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:32,439 Speaker 1: and so we're losing this confidence. And the banking system 447 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:35,760 Speaker 1: is really a game of confidence. Right. If the American people, 448 00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:37,960 Speaker 1: as Henry Ford said, if they knew how the banking 449 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:40,160 Speaker 1: system worked, there'd be a revolution before morning. But if 450 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:43,080 Speaker 1: the people started to withdraw their funds, then the system collapses, 451 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:46,240 Speaker 1: similar like SVB. So they have to keep the confidence 452 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:48,960 Speaker 1: in the game, so we keep our money in there. 453 00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:53,320 Speaker 2: Right, what you say is in some measure true, But 454 00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:54,280 Speaker 2: you said a lot. 455 00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:55,960 Speaker 1: There, Okay, and break it down from. 456 00:26:57,840 --> 00:26:59,760 Speaker 2: I think first of all, that there are lots of 457 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:03,480 Speaker 2: in the United States that are well run, good stewards 458 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:07,199 Speaker 2: of capital. I think, as an example of farmers and merchants, 459 00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:09,760 Speaker 2: Bank of Long Beach with equity as twenty percent of 460 00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:15,119 Speaker 2: total assets, banks that expand their market share during banking 461 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:21,520 Speaker 2: crises because they were well run. But I think that 462 00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:24,679 Speaker 2: what you suggest with regards to the banking industry as 463 00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:30,359 Speaker 2: a whole rings very true. There is a confidence in 464 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:34,119 Speaker 2: the banking industry that I suggest as partly born of ignorance, 465 00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:38,920 Speaker 2: which is why neither borrowers, nor depositors nor bank shareholders 466 00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:42,560 Speaker 2: know anywhere near as much about banking as they ought to. 467 00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:47,320 Speaker 2: Part of the panic comes about from ignorance, and much 468 00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:52,160 Speaker 2: of the confidence comes about as a consequence of ignorance. 469 00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:58,280 Speaker 2: Banking is not a complex business done right. It is 470 00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:03,840 Speaker 2: really about using your lending expertise and using your equity 471 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:10,680 Speaker 2: to shield the depositors deposits from excessive risk while paying 472 00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:15,600 Speaker 2: them rent on the deposit, a fairly simple process if 473 00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:16,720 Speaker 2: done right. 474 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:21,760 Speaker 1: Do you think that that what you just said, they're 475 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:24,239 Speaker 1: paying them rent. Well, first of all, so I do 476 00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:26,080 Speaker 1: want to agree with what you're saying. I kind of 477 00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:28,640 Speaker 1: wanted to bring the listener's point back to that SVB 478 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:32,560 Speaker 1: was a horribly run bank. I believe they had seventy 479 00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:37,080 Speaker 1: eight percent of their investments into MBS mortgage backed securities 480 00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:41,440 Speaker 1: when the industry averages like thirty percent for example. I mean, 481 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:43,600 Speaker 1: just just very basic things. They're way out on the 482 00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:45,400 Speaker 1: risk curve, and these are things they should have known 483 00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:47,080 Speaker 1: better they had. I think one of the guys from 484 00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:49,640 Speaker 1: Lehman Brothers was on board, someone from the San Francisco 485 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:51,520 Speaker 1: fred was on board. Like they should have known better. 486 00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:53,680 Speaker 1: They went way out on the risk curve, didn't practice 487 00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:55,960 Speaker 1: propers management. So I would agree with you on that, 488 00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:59,200 Speaker 1: But what about just the changes back to kind of 489 00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:02,640 Speaker 1: this technolology and driving change and just changing things. So 490 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:05,800 Speaker 1: you said that they should pay them rent. So all 491 00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:07,800 Speaker 1: of a sudden, my bank is paying me zero point 492 00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:10,520 Speaker 1: five percent or zero point eight percent, and the Fed's 493 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:13,480 Speaker 1: going to pay me five percent. What should I do? 494 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:17,360 Speaker 2: It's outrageous. Well, that's that's really obvious. You know. I 495 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:19,600 Speaker 2: went into a big bank. I'm not going to say 496 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:22,360 Speaker 2: which one. I've been a customer there is for over 497 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:25,320 Speaker 2: fifty years. I went into the local branch, and I 498 00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:27,400 Speaker 2: have to say the branch manager was a very nice woman, 499 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:30,960 Speaker 2: but she didn't know very much about banking. It turns 500 00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:35,120 Speaker 2: out they had fourteen savings products, savings and deposit products, 501 00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:37,640 Speaker 2: and when I began to ask her questions about these, 502 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:39,560 Speaker 2: she pointed me to a white service phone, I guess, 503 00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:43,440 Speaker 2: to connect me to India to learn about their products. 504 00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:47,840 Speaker 2: I learned that five of the fourteen products proposed to 505 00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:52,719 Speaker 2: pay me little or no interest. Now why would they 506 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:56,440 Speaker 2: need fourteen products? First of all, my last bank and 507 00:29:56,520 --> 00:30:00,760 Speaker 2: my new bank has one deposit product, you know you 508 00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:02,719 Speaker 2: could write checks against it. You can do what you want. 509 00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:04,800 Speaker 2: It's a high yield deposit that you can write checks against. 510 00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:08,040 Speaker 2: You don't need fourteen. But in particular as a customer, 511 00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:10,920 Speaker 2: I don't need fourteen that where five of them don't 512 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:15,360 Speaker 2: pay me interest. I can only believe mark that the 513 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:19,040 Speaker 2: last forty years have been so benign that savers have 514 00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:23,920 Speaker 2: become lazy with their checking accounts because they've made so 515 00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:26,760 Speaker 2: much money in real estate, They've made so much money 516 00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:29,840 Speaker 2: in the stock market that they figure convenience is more 517 00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:34,719 Speaker 2: important than yield. I'm old and fat and rich. I 518 00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:37,320 Speaker 2: happen to believe that yield is important. If somebody's going 519 00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:39,920 Speaker 2: to use my money and expose me to some risk, 520 00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:42,680 Speaker 2: they got to pay me some rent. As you say, 521 00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:46,120 Speaker 2: the idea that you would have money in a checking account, 522 00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:49,479 Speaker 2: in a now account and get paid fifteen basis points 523 00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:53,120 Speaker 2: when you can go treasury direct and get four hundred 524 00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:57,680 Speaker 2: and forty basis point in short term fed funds. The 525 00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:03,280 Speaker 2: idea that there's still money, trillions of dollars in these 526 00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:05,800 Speaker 2: bank products that pay no interest rate is astonishing to me. 527 00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:10,760 Speaker 1: Ignorance and laziness. I suppose, right, are the two things, 528 00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:13,240 Speaker 1: But so what do the banks do? So the world 529 00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:15,440 Speaker 1: changes and it seems like the banks need to change now, 530 00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:18,960 Speaker 1: typically competition would make the banks need to change. The 531 00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:22,280 Speaker 1: banks haven't had any competition, and maybe to Caitlyn Long's bank, 532 00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:25,200 Speaker 1: the FED has purposely kept competition out of it. But 533 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:27,520 Speaker 1: they don't have any competition. I mean now they sort 534 00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:29,960 Speaker 1: of do it, the FED. But it seems like they're 535 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:31,760 Speaker 1: going to have to offer me a better deal than 536 00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:35,280 Speaker 1: what the FED is doing since the bank typically the model, 537 00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:37,640 Speaker 1: I think most people believe that the model would be 538 00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:40,040 Speaker 1: I give my money to the bank and deposits. They 539 00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:43,640 Speaker 1: loan that money back out and make somewhere between. Probably 540 00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:46,480 Speaker 1: I've heard it's an average of about seventeen percent when 541 00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:49,200 Speaker 1: you take your high interest credit cards down to mortgages 542 00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:51,240 Speaker 1: or whatever, and then they pay a percentage of that 543 00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:55,400 Speaker 1: back to me. So should they be paying like, you know, 544 00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:59,800 Speaker 1: short term treasure yields plus a premium on top of that. 545 00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:04,720 Speaker 2: I don't want to say what they should pay because 546 00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:06,719 Speaker 2: I think that depends on what they do with the money. 547 00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:10,760 Speaker 2: Banks that take more credit risk, which is to say, 548 00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:13,440 Speaker 2: banks that are making as an example, credit card loans 549 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:18,120 Speaker 2: where there's an expectant six percent default should pay me more. 550 00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:25,080 Speaker 2: Banks like farmers and merchants. Bank of Long Beach is 551 00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:28,000 Speaker 2: an example, that have a lot of their own money 552 00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:31,160 Speaker 2: in very short term treasury securities that run very high 553 00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:35,520 Speaker 2: cash reserves relative to deposit liabilities should probably have to 554 00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:38,840 Speaker 2: pay me less, but they should have to pay me something, 555 00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:43,640 Speaker 2: particularly because there's so many banks out there, there's solvent 556 00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:44,800 Speaker 2: that will pay you something. 557 00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:48,520 Speaker 1: I should have to pay you at least what they 558 00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:51,000 Speaker 1: what you could earn in short term treasuries, right. 559 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:58,000 Speaker 2: I would think so. Now, perhaps people want deposits with 560 00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:02,320 Speaker 2: shorter term, that is, they don't want to invest money 561 00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:05,960 Speaker 2: for nine months. Necessarily they want overnight money. But even 562 00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:11,440 Speaker 2: overnight money should pay an interest rate that is reasonable 563 00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:14,800 Speaker 2: compared to what the banks receive for that same overnight 564 00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:21,000 Speaker 2: money that they on lend. It shouldn't be any particular 565 00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:25,960 Speaker 2: difficulty to get three point one five, three point three five, 566 00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:33,720 Speaker 2: and now accounts and checking accounts, given the opportunities available 567 00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:38,640 Speaker 2: for the banks to reinvest in short term money market 568 00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:40,120 Speaker 2: style investments. 569 00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:44,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and you know the thing, times have changed, 570 00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:47,880 Speaker 1: and so today we have smartphones and I don't have 571 00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:50,720 Speaker 1: to go drive whatever, however hard to get to town 572 00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:52,240 Speaker 1: and stand inland of the bank. I just opened my 573 00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:53,760 Speaker 1: app and push a button and I can move all 574 00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:55,960 Speaker 1: my money out of the account. And so the banks 575 00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:57,320 Speaker 1: are going to have to get with this. We saw 576 00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:01,400 Speaker 1: with SVP as forty billions and moved in a single day, 577 00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:04,080 Speaker 1: I mean amazing, and that wasn't from people standing in 578 00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:06,840 Speaker 1: line withdrawing a few thousand bucks. I want to jump 579 00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:10,600 Speaker 1: to a bigger topic and back to kind of this 580 00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:14,640 Speaker 1: sovereign debt crisis. And Zoltan Posar put out this work 581 00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:17,479 Speaker 1: which I kind of think is a pretty good mental model, 582 00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:19,440 Speaker 1: and he talks about this Breton Woods three. I'm sure 583 00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:22,480 Speaker 1: you're probably familiar with that, and kind of Brettonwood's one 584 00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:25,880 Speaker 1: was the gold back currency informally, Brettonwoods two went to 585 00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:28,320 Speaker 1: just a paper fiat system what he calls inside money, 586 00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:31,359 Speaker 1: and now Bretonwoods three is moving back to a commodity 587 00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:35,120 Speaker 1: type money. So the US, you know, through sanctions, have 588 00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:38,440 Speaker 1: sanctioned all these countries, including now Russia, and now we're 589 00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:41,399 Speaker 1: seeing it seems like potentially moving back. We're seeing central 590 00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:43,719 Speaker 1: banks adding more gold than any time in history. But 591 00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:47,040 Speaker 1: it's not just gold. We saw GM put six hundred 592 00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:49,520 Speaker 1: and fifty million into a lithium mind, they'd rather have 593 00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:51,560 Speaker 1: the lithium in the ground. And we're seeing, you know, 594 00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:53,960 Speaker 1: Russia wants to pump out less oil, and so we're 595 00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:56,560 Speaker 1: seeing it's almost like nations would rather keep the commodity 596 00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:58,840 Speaker 1: in the ground than hold treasuries that could be sanctioned 597 00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:00,680 Speaker 1: or lose value or not buy as many of those 598 00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:03,960 Speaker 1: commodities in the future. What's your take on that thesis 599 00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:06,920 Speaker 1: if you heard it, or just that overall idea. 600 00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:09,680 Speaker 2: Again, you said many things there, so. 601 00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:12,320 Speaker 1: I'll make I'll make my questions a little shorter. I 602 00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:13,680 Speaker 1: feel free to back it. 603 00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:16,359 Speaker 2: Well, I heard three and so I'll try to deal 604 00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:21,239 Speaker 2: with those. I agree with the thesis that we are 605 00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:24,400 Speaker 2: coming into a period of increased commodity prices and also 606 00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:30,799 Speaker 2: increased geopolitical strains on commodity pipelines. So I think that 607 00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:34,640 Speaker 2: you will see in the investment business and in geopolitics 608 00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:40,040 Speaker 2: more attention paid to commodities. I mean, that makes absolute sense. 609 00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:44,480 Speaker 2: The Chinese in terms of trying to secure their economic 610 00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:47,640 Speaker 2: future with security with the resources. They're doing the same 611 00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:49,600 Speaker 2: thing that the United States did in the fifties. And sixties. 612 00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:52,760 Speaker 2: We even taught them how so that makes absolute perfect sense. 613 00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:58,640 Speaker 2: The idea, however, that breton Wood's three to the extent 614 00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:02,320 Speaker 2: that it's a government dictate will do anything to back 615 00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:06,120 Speaker 2: a currency with gold or commodities or anything else, strikes 616 00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:11,439 Speaker 2: me as being unlikely. The politician's currency is power, and 617 00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:15,200 Speaker 2: having a currency tied to any form of reality limits 618 00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:18,840 Speaker 2: the power of the constant of the politicians. The idea, 619 00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:21,680 Speaker 2: as an example, that the guy who runs China GI 620 00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:27,840 Speaker 2: would have a gold backed Chinese yuan, which would limit 621 00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:31,239 Speaker 2: his ability to impact the economy, seems to me like 622 00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:34,880 Speaker 2: a one hundred percent non starter. Now, the reason that 623 00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:37,799 Speaker 2: you're seeing more gold in central banks is, I think 624 00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:40,960 Speaker 2: central banks have come to understand the challenges that they 625 00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:44,359 Speaker 2: face as individuals, and they believe that the challenges that 626 00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:49,680 Speaker 2: other central banks fail face are just as high. And they, 627 00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:53,040 Speaker 2: I think would like an asset that isn't simultaneously somebody 628 00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:59,720 Speaker 2: else's liability. If you own US treasuries, you implicitly believe 629 00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:03,040 Speaker 2: that the US will pay you back and not steal it. 630 00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:06,400 Speaker 2: And goal doesn't have to pay you back, it's already 631 00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:11,040 Speaker 2: paid you. So it makes perfect sense, particularly in an 632 00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:13,919 Speaker 2: era in an era of artificially low interest rates. Why 633 00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:16,480 Speaker 2: you would do that? Why would you own, if you 634 00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:21,160 Speaker 2: were China, large amounts of US tenure treasuries that pay 635 00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:24,480 Speaker 2: you three and three quarters basis points in a currency 636 00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:26,960 Speaker 2: where its value is depreciating by seven and a half 637 00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:31,279 Speaker 2: percent a year. The US government solemnly swears to you 638 00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:33,600 Speaker 2: that they will reduce your purchasing power by three and 639 00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:35,400 Speaker 2: a half percent a year for the next ten years. 640 00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:40,279 Speaker 2: Jim Grant calls that return free risk. The Chinese are 641 00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:43,680 Speaker 2: simply being smart that way. 642 00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:48,799 Speaker 1: So, you know, lots of talk just these last couple 643 00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:51,920 Speaker 1: of days. CNN put out a piece, it was on 644 00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:55,040 Speaker 1: Fox News, It was on you know, it's a lot 645 00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:57,640 Speaker 1: of talk these days about the US dollar losing its 646 00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:02,040 Speaker 1: reserve status. And you think about maybe a reserve currency 647 00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:04,680 Speaker 1: like what you're actually using to store your savings, your 648 00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:10,520 Speaker 1: reserves in versus maybe a medium of exchange currency. So 649 00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:14,000 Speaker 1: in regards to this reserve, this store of value kind 650 00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:17,520 Speaker 1: of this reserve currency, do you think that I guess 651 00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:19,160 Speaker 1: what you're saying is then a lot of these countries 652 00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:21,680 Speaker 1: are saying, well, I'd rather just hold gold, I'd rather 653 00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:25,239 Speaker 1: reserve my assets, my value in gold than some other 654 00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:27,320 Speaker 1: form of currency. 655 00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:31,759 Speaker 2: I think that's true. Mark, going back to the first 656 00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:35,759 Speaker 2: thing you said. When I was still actively employed, I 657 00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:38,720 Speaker 2: spent a lot of time selling to very large quasi 658 00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:42,400 Speaker 2: governmental investors, sovereign wealth fund stuff like that, And I 659 00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:45,960 Speaker 2: asked them about their holdings of US Treasury. And I said, 660 00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:49,360 Speaker 2: point blank to some of these sovereign wealth fund managers, 661 00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:52,400 Speaker 2: do you trust us? They laughed and said, of course not, 662 00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:54,319 Speaker 2: but we trust you more than we trust each other. 663 00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:54,759 Speaker 1: Right. 664 00:38:56,520 --> 00:39:00,239 Speaker 2: I once heard the US dollar described as quote, of 665 00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:04,040 Speaker 2: course a lie, but a deeper and more liquid lie 666 00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:09,520 Speaker 2: than we are told by other flyers, meaning that I 667 00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:12,680 Speaker 2: think that the US dollar probably is the world's reserve 668 00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:16,120 Speaker 2: currency for a while. The biggest enemy of the US 669 00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:19,840 Speaker 2: dollar isn't the Chinese, It isn't the saudiast It's Congress. 670 00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:23,719 Speaker 2: We're doing our very best to debase our currency. We're 671 00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:27,279 Speaker 2: doing our very best to limit its ability to be 672 00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:32,919 Speaker 2: a reserve currency by weaponizing the dollar and by the 673 00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:38,080 Speaker 2: export of US values and politics across our borders. There 674 00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:41,200 Speaker 2: is nothing that our quote competitors are doing to devalue 675 00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:44,200 Speaker 2: the dollar that comes close to matching what we're doing 676 00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:48,359 Speaker 2: to ourselves and I think it's important that the US 677 00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:53,160 Speaker 2: citizens that generate real value from the US dollar as 678 00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:57,160 Speaker 2: a reserve currency and the ability to export inflation as 679 00:39:57,160 --> 00:40:00,759 Speaker 2: an example, understand the damage that's being done to the 680 00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:03,480 Speaker 2: US franchise by the US Congress. 681 00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:09,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good point. I've often thought about that. 682 00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:13,760 Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's the United States race or positioned 683 00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:15,680 Speaker 1: to lose, and so to your point, they're doing the 684 00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:20,080 Speaker 1: most to damage it. You know, I know, I don't 685 00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:22,040 Speaker 1: want to say, I know. I suspect that you have 686 00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:24,320 Speaker 1: a long term perspective. I know you you know you're 687 00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:26,560 Speaker 1: deep into golden resources, and so you must take the 688 00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:30,920 Speaker 1: long view on this directionality wise. I mean, it just 689 00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:33,480 Speaker 1: seems like that's the direction we're going in and they're 690 00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:35,880 Speaker 1: only going to continue. It seems like back to kind 691 00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:38,400 Speaker 1: of maybe earlier I said, at the end of this empire, 692 00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:40,480 Speaker 1: they start to squeeze and try to kind of restrict 693 00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:44,600 Speaker 1: and so potentially maybe you know what they're doing having 694 00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:47,200 Speaker 1: to print, for example. I mean, that's only going to continue. 695 00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:49,120 Speaker 1: This is just the direction we're in. 696 00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:54,280 Speaker 2: Maybe true, maybe not true, But why take a chance 697 00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:58,319 Speaker 2: mark with some part of your portfolio. I think you 698 00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:01,880 Speaker 2: need to own insurance you need to pay DP. Gold 699 00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:07,359 Speaker 2: has traditionally done well when investors were nervous about other 700 00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:12,680 Speaker 2: forms of savings. So let's look at the arithmetic of 701 00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:14,960 Speaker 2: those other forms of savings. The US ten your treasury, 702 00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:18,040 Speaker 2: they pay you three and three quarters in a currency 703 00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:20,520 Speaker 2: that they acknowledge is depreciating in value by seven and 704 00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:21,040 Speaker 2: a half. 705 00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:23,040 Speaker 1: Percent, And that's understanding. 706 00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:26,680 Speaker 2: Why is to be nervous about that, wouldn't they? The 707 00:41:26,719 --> 00:41:30,400 Speaker 2: second thing to understand about gold ownership today is the 708 00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:35,040 Speaker 2: value proposition associated with longer bonds. From two perspectives, A 709 00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:38,560 Speaker 2: large institutional investor who has forty percent of his or 710 00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:42,000 Speaker 2: her portfolio and long bonds has two problems. The first 711 00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:44,480 Speaker 2: is that his interest rates rise the capitalize value of 712 00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:49,560 Speaker 2: their distributions, which is the bond prices fall. The second 713 00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:53,360 Speaker 2: is that the yield is insufficient to make up the 714 00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:56,879 Speaker 2: actuarial assumptions that will provide for the benefits of those 715 00:41:56,920 --> 00:42:00,839 Speaker 2: pension funds twenty years from now. What that means is 716 00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:04,200 Speaker 2: that I think we're going to see disintermediation from long 717 00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:07,520 Speaker 2: bond portfolios into other asset classes. One of those I 718 00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:11,399 Speaker 2: think will be gold. The most important part I think 719 00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:13,640 Speaker 2: of the case for Americans owning gold is that it's 720 00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:17,239 Speaker 2: under owned, precisely when the wind ought to be in 721 00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:20,680 Speaker 2: its sales. The market share of gold is one half 722 00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:24,120 Speaker 2: of one percent of total savings and investment assets in 723 00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:28,399 Speaker 2: the United States. The four decade median is between two 724 00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:31,400 Speaker 2: and a half and three percent. Gold doesn't need to 725 00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:33,759 Speaker 2: win the war against the US dollar, doesn't need to 726 00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:36,400 Speaker 2: win the war against the US Treasury. It needs to 727 00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:40,720 Speaker 2: lose it less badly. If the market share of gold 728 00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:46,200 Speaker 2: merely returned to mean, demand for gold would increase by 729 00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:49,840 Speaker 2: four or five or six hundred percent in the largest 730 00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:52,960 Speaker 2: savings and investment market in the world. That I think 731 00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:55,440 Speaker 2: is the case for the gold price one hundred percent 732 00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:58,200 Speaker 2: of your net worth, of course, not but more than 733 00:42:58,239 --> 00:42:59,080 Speaker 2: half of a percent. 734 00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:02,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, what is that? How does that stack up to 735 00:43:02,239 --> 00:43:04,480 Speaker 1: India and China, which I know that people buy a 736 00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:05,720 Speaker 1: lot of gold in those countries. 737 00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:08,440 Speaker 2: I don't think that the statistics exist. 738 00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:09,160 Speaker 1: Okay. 739 00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:11,319 Speaker 2: One of the reasons why the US dollar is the 740 00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:16,799 Speaker 2: world's reserve currency is relative to other countries, we're you know, 741 00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:20,239 Speaker 2: pretty transparent. The data exists. It might not be good data, 742 00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:21,680 Speaker 2: but at least it's data, right. 743 00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:24,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, And of course you have to keep in mind 744 00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:26,160 Speaker 1: that gold is a global asset. So you know, Russia's 745 00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:29,360 Speaker 1: central Bank doubled their reserve requirements for gold from twenty 746 00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:32,279 Speaker 1: to forty percent, and so those are those are big 747 00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:33,960 Speaker 1: demands for gold as well. We see I think it 748 00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:36,000 Speaker 1: was Turkey right, It was one of the biggest buyers 749 00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:38,920 Speaker 1: of gold. So there's massive amounts of demand all over 750 00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:41,439 Speaker 1: the world. What would you say to the fact that 751 00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:47,080 Speaker 1: since twenty eleven, the money supply has gone up by 752 00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:50,560 Speaker 1: about fifty percent, yet gold's price is the same. 753 00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:54,919 Speaker 2: Well, a couple of things. I think that we've lived 754 00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:59,000 Speaker 2: in a very benign time. I think the fact that 755 00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:03,520 Speaker 2: we've lived through forty of benign economic climate means that 756 00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:07,760 Speaker 2: the FED has been able to counterfeit without people taking 757 00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:12,760 Speaker 2: refuge in gold. I also think that while markets are messy, 758 00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:16,279 Speaker 2: they ultimately work. And I do believe that as long 759 00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:19,279 Speaker 2: as we have negative real interest rates, which is to say, 760 00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:22,520 Speaker 2: as long as the rate of inflation is substantially higher 761 00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:27,920 Speaker 2: than the rate of the long US government bond yield, 762 00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:32,439 Speaker 2: that we continue to compress the spring for gold. I'm 763 00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:35,560 Speaker 2: in the odd position mark of owning a lot of 764 00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:38,759 Speaker 2: gold when a financial planner would tell me. As a 765 00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:41,400 Speaker 2: consequence of my other investments, I probably didn't need to 766 00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:44,399 Speaker 2: own too much gold, but it allows me to sleep 767 00:44:44,520 --> 00:44:47,640 Speaker 2: nights and stay calm, which is a seventy year old 768 00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:51,359 Speaker 2: is a very good thing. I suspect that the statistics 769 00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:54,000 Speaker 2: will tell you, given that the market share of gold 770 00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:56,200 Speaker 2: across the length and breadth of the country is one 771 00:44:56,239 --> 00:45:00,399 Speaker 2: half of one percent, that other investors aren't as well 772 00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:02,040 Speaker 2: invested in gold as they should be. 773 00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:06,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, what about what about all the talk of central 774 00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:11,000 Speaker 1: bank digital currencies? Now? Lots of talk about them. I 775 00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:15,000 Speaker 1: think just today I saw the ECB banging their drum again, 776 00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:18,080 Speaker 1: Christine Legardo. They're talking about how fast they're rushing out 777 00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:20,680 Speaker 1: their CBDC. Of course, China, the communist country, of course 778 00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:23,200 Speaker 1: put theirs out first. Lots of talk about that. Some 779 00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:26,520 Speaker 1: people think it could be I think you would probably agree. 780 00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:28,960 Speaker 1: I know you don't pose to be an expert in crypto, 781 00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:30,839 Speaker 1: but I'm sure you've seen enough to know the CBDCs 782 00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:36,040 Speaker 1: would be a extremely orwellian in nature. But some people 783 00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:39,160 Speaker 1: think that the government might use a CBD suo to 784 00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:41,560 Speaker 1: get themselves out of this crisis that they're in. 785 00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:48,200 Speaker 2: Well, one thing that I mean, there's many things chilling 786 00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:51,759 Speaker 2: about the central bank digital currency. The most chilling is 787 00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:52,680 Speaker 2: that they could cancel it. 788 00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:54,839 Speaker 1: Shut you off. 789 00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:56,959 Speaker 2: What happens right now if they come after my money 790 00:45:57,000 --> 00:45:59,480 Speaker 2: is they have to find me and they have to 791 00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:02,640 Speaker 2: take it from me by due process. The idea that 792 00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:04,880 Speaker 2: they could issue me currency and then if they didn't 793 00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:07,800 Speaker 2: like it, they could cancel that currency does not seem 794 00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:09,359 Speaker 2: like a good idea to me, although it might seem 795 00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:14,399 Speaker 2: like a very good idea to them. Sure, I think 796 00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:16,920 Speaker 2: that money is supposed to be a medium of exchange, 797 00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:20,239 Speaker 2: and if they cancel it, you can't exchange it, can you? 798 00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:26,600 Speaker 1: No, you can't. You can't do anything if they cancel 799 00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:27,040 Speaker 1: your money. 800 00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:30,759 Speaker 2: I guess if you really trust Congress more than you 801 00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:36,239 Speaker 2: trust yourself or your customer or your supplier, you think 802 00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:39,839 Speaker 2: central bank digital currencies are a very good thing. I've 803 00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:42,319 Speaker 2: watched Congress for a fairly long time, and I would 804 00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:45,279 Speaker 2: rather take my chances with my suppliers and my customers. 805 00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:49,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, what do you think? I mean? You could see 806 00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:52,640 Speaker 1: the battle already heating up in the US. We have 807 00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:56,400 Speaker 1: some lawmakers or trying to put like Ted Cruz or Emmer, 808 00:46:56,920 --> 00:47:00,680 Speaker 1: putting bills forth trying to really block even on DeSantis, 809 00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:02,920 Speaker 1: blocking CBDs from getting into the state, or into the 810 00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:06,520 Speaker 1: Fed or into Congress. While some obviously wanted, there's certainly 811 00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:10,680 Speaker 1: a battle there. Do you think that pesky document called 812 00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:14,280 Speaker 1: the Constitution or some of these new laws could prevent 813 00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:16,440 Speaker 1: this or is this something that's going to probably steamroll 814 00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:17,040 Speaker 1: through no matter what. 815 00:47:18,200 --> 00:47:23,000 Speaker 2: I don't think many Americans have a strong belief in 816 00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:23,800 Speaker 2: the Bill of Rights. 817 00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:26,160 Speaker 1: They don't even know what it says. 818 00:47:26,719 --> 00:47:31,600 Speaker 2: I don't think, as the country is currently constituted, that 819 00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:36,120 Speaker 2: people care too much about the Constitution. I'm reminded. I 820 00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:40,520 Speaker 2: think it's the make end quote which suggests that the 821 00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:45,600 Speaker 2: elections really are advanced auctions of stolen property. And further 822 00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:48,000 Speaker 2: that you can understand politics by looking at the root 823 00:47:48,080 --> 00:47:52,319 Speaker 2: of the word polly, of course, from the Greek for many, 824 00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:58,399 Speaker 2: tick from the colloquial English for small bloodsucking insect. And 825 00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:01,440 Speaker 2: I think that that process maybe manifest itself with voters. 826 00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:05,560 Speaker 2: They are looking at once to victimize other classes of 827 00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:11,040 Speaker 2: society to advance themselves while protecting themselves from victimization. That 828 00:48:11,160 --> 00:48:14,480 Speaker 2: isn't what the Constitution is about. I think politics has 829 00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:19,440 Speaker 2: become very pragmatic and probably much less morals based. 830 00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:26,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, certainly. All right, Well we've covered a lot of ground. 831 00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:29,439 Speaker 1: Now one question I have to ask you about, which 832 00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:30,880 Speaker 1: you've already told me you're not an expert in, so 833 00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:33,000 Speaker 1: I won't push too hard. But you know a lot 834 00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:36,759 Speaker 1: of people have called bitcoin like a digital gold, a 835 00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:39,160 Speaker 1: Swiss bank account in your pocket. It's certainly like an 836 00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:43,239 Speaker 1: offshore bank account. It's a way to hold stuff you 837 00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:46,160 Speaker 1: know self, custy yourself, and transfer over time and space 838 00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:51,359 Speaker 1: without any authority's ability to sensor, sensor or take over 839 00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:55,319 Speaker 1: that transaction. I'm curious. Have you just not really paid 840 00:48:55,360 --> 00:48:57,200 Speaker 1: much attention to it because you're seventy years old and 841 00:48:57,239 --> 00:48:58,640 Speaker 1: you don't care, or have you taken a look at 842 00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:00,680 Speaker 1: it and had your doubts about it? What's your thoughts 843 00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:00,960 Speaker 1: on that? 844 00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:04,480 Speaker 2: I had the good fortune to buy bitcoin fairly early 845 00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:09,399 Speaker 2: because it abused me and frankly, Mark, this doesn't happen often. 846 00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:12,680 Speaker 2: But I made too much money too fast, and I thought, Okay, 847 00:49:12,680 --> 00:49:15,600 Speaker 2: you've made X y Z without really understanding anything about 848 00:49:15,600 --> 00:49:18,200 Speaker 2: this asset class. If you don't sell it and grab 849 00:49:18,239 --> 00:49:23,560 Speaker 2: the cash, you're stupid. Yeah, well I was stupid. I 850 00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:25,200 Speaker 2: made a lot of money and sold at eight hundred 851 00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:27,000 Speaker 2: on the way to sixty thousand or whatever it went to. 852 00:49:27,080 --> 00:49:28,799 Speaker 2: So I left, let's just say a little bit on 853 00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:31,560 Speaker 2: the table. Yeah, but I don't feel bad about that. 854 00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:37,480 Speaker 2: I will say that my belief in value is that 855 00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:41,400 Speaker 2: most of the most of the value in bitcoin is 856 00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:43,640 Speaker 2: the anonymity which some of its adherents are trying to 857 00:49:43,640 --> 00:49:50,800 Speaker 2: get rid of. It's frictionless nature, but also the size 858 00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:53,680 Speaker 2: of the network. What I like about gold that gold 859 00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:57,000 Speaker 2: has a big network too. It's liquid, but it has 860 00:49:57,040 --> 00:50:02,440 Speaker 2: intrinsic value that is useful to me. It's more useful 861 00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:04,520 Speaker 2: to me frankly, that I understand it. I don't have 862 00:50:04,560 --> 00:50:09,520 Speaker 2: anything against bitcoin. It just isn't an asset class that 863 00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:13,200 Speaker 2: I feel as comfortable with from an insurance point of 864 00:50:13,280 --> 00:50:16,479 Speaker 2: view as I do Bitcoin. If I lived in Venezuela, 865 00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:20,280 Speaker 2: if there were currency controls and I wanted to change 866 00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:23,920 Speaker 2: my bolevars for something I could spend, Bitcoin might be 867 00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:28,760 Speaker 2: extremely useful for me. Right. Certainly, it has proved useful 868 00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:34,000 Speaker 2: for Chinese nationals who didn't like the controls on how 869 00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:37,120 Speaker 2: many yuan they would take out of China. I hope 870 00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:41,120 Speaker 2: that situation isn't one that confronts Americans in the near future. 871 00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:44,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no, that's a great point to bring up. 872 00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:47,120 Speaker 1: And I appreciate that perspective because you know, at the 873 00:50:47,200 --> 00:50:50,040 Speaker 1: end of the day, we move or react when our 874 00:50:50,080 --> 00:50:52,080 Speaker 1: pain is high enough. And so in the United States, 875 00:50:52,880 --> 00:50:55,279 Speaker 1: as dirty as the dollar is, is still the cleanest shirt 876 00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:58,200 Speaker 1: in the laundry versus Yeah, if you're in North Korea 877 00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:02,240 Speaker 1: or China, or Lebanon or a Turkey or any number 878 00:51:02,239 --> 00:51:04,759 Speaker 1: of countries around the world, the pains high enough and 879 00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:06,960 Speaker 1: you have to you have to move into something. Eighty 880 00:51:07,040 --> 00:51:10,640 Speaker 1: percent of all bitcoin transactions under one thousand dollars are 881 00:51:10,640 --> 00:51:14,880 Speaker 1: happening in Africa, right, they need it there. But in 882 00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:17,520 Speaker 1: the US that you know, I'm at a bar in 883 00:51:17,560 --> 00:51:20,200 Speaker 1: Manhattan drinking a twenty dollars cocktail, like the dollar still 884 00:51:20,200 --> 00:51:22,160 Speaker 1: works pretty dang good, right, and so we don't have 885 00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:25,160 Speaker 1: that need. If you're in Syria running for your life, 886 00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:27,440 Speaker 1: you can't really take that money in your bankccount, nor 887 00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:31,120 Speaker 1: can you carry a bunch of gold bars either. And so, yeah, 888 00:51:31,160 --> 00:51:36,120 Speaker 1: great perspective on that. I appreciate that. All right, Well, 889 00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:40,280 Speaker 1: we man, we covered a lot of ground. So gold 890 00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:45,319 Speaker 1: commodities protect yourself and that's it. Anything else you want 891 00:51:45,320 --> 00:51:46,080 Speaker 1: to draw attention to. 892 00:51:47,239 --> 00:51:49,920 Speaker 2: I'd love to invite your audience to continue the dialogue 893 00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:51,440 Speaker 2: with me. If you care what I have to say 894 00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:54,120 Speaker 2: about natural resources and investing, you can do it really 895 00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:58,000 Speaker 2: easily by coming to Rule Investmentmedia dot Com. And I'll 896 00:51:58,040 --> 00:52:01,880 Speaker 2: give you an incentive if you'll list your natural resource stocks, 897 00:52:02,239 --> 00:52:05,440 Speaker 2: I'll personally rank them one to ten. Wow, and comment 898 00:52:05,600 --> 00:52:10,080 Speaker 2: on any individual issue or I think my comment might 899 00:52:10,120 --> 00:52:13,879 Speaker 2: have value. In addition, if you're concerned about your bank 900 00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:15,520 Speaker 2: or unhappy with your bank, and you want to do 901 00:52:15,560 --> 00:52:18,040 Speaker 2: business with a real old fashioned bank, one that has 902 00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:21,400 Speaker 2: money in it, one that pays you interest on your deposits, 903 00:52:21,800 --> 00:52:24,680 Speaker 2: and one that will happily lend you money against physical 904 00:52:24,719 --> 00:52:28,719 Speaker 2: precious metals stored in segregated storage. In the question and 905 00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:32,799 Speaker 2: comment section at Rule Investment Media Right bank, and I'll 906 00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:36,719 Speaker 2: put you on a list for battle Bank information so 907 00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:38,920 Speaker 2: that you can take a look at becoming a customer 908 00:52:38,960 --> 00:52:44,640 Speaker 2: when we open once again, Rule Investmentmedia dot Com rankings bank. 909 00:52:45,640 --> 00:52:48,319 Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's awesome. I'm we're going to record the 910 00:52:48,360 --> 00:52:50,320 Speaker 1: intro separately. I'm going to make sure I shout that 911 00:52:50,360 --> 00:52:51,920 Speaker 1: out in the intro. So everybody hears that as well. 912 00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:53,520 Speaker 1: We'll link to it in the show notes down below 913 00:52:53,560 --> 00:52:58,320 Speaker 1: as well. Man, that's an amazing offer. Get your resource 914 00:52:58,360 --> 00:53:02,000 Speaker 1: investments rated by the legend, the living legend here, Rick Rule. 915 00:53:02,360 --> 00:53:04,799 Speaker 1: Take him up on that offer. Battle Bank for sure, 916 00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:08,040 Speaker 1: comment Bank. I'm gonna be using battle Bank when it 917 00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:10,160 Speaker 1: comes online. I'm excited for that. I think it's very unique. 918 00:53:10,160 --> 00:53:12,160 Speaker 1: I think it's great. So I'm wishing you luck with that. 919 00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:14,640 Speaker 1: So we'll link to that stuff down below, and I 920 00:53:14,640 --> 00:53:16,880 Speaker 1: guess with that we'll we'll let you go. Thanks so much, Rick. 921 00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:19,799 Speaker 2: Mark, Thank you. I really enjoyed the conversation. 922 00:53:20,719 --> 00:53:23,120 Speaker 1: All right, that's a wrap. Hopefully enjoyed that conversation with 923 00:53:23,239 --> 00:53:25,799 Speaker 1: Rick Rule. Like I said, a living legend. This guy 924 00:53:26,040 --> 00:53:28,480 Speaker 1: is on it and it was a great conversation. Do 925 00:53:28,600 --> 00:53:31,960 Speaker 1: not pass up that opportunity he's given to you to 926 00:53:32,239 --> 00:53:35,400 Speaker 1: put your resource investments up and have him personally grde it. 927 00:53:35,680 --> 00:53:37,680 Speaker 1: I'm doing it. You should do it. We're gonna put 928 00:53:37,719 --> 00:53:39,400 Speaker 1: a link down below. Like I said, don't pass it up. 929 00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:40,839 Speaker 1: We put a QR code up on the screen as 930 00:53:40,880 --> 00:53:43,160 Speaker 1: well as always let me know what you think. Give 931 00:53:43,160 --> 00:53:44,920 Speaker 1: me thumbs up if you like it. Thumbs down. If 932 00:53:44,920 --> 00:53:47,120 Speaker 1: you don't please, if you don't like it, tell me 933 00:53:47,160 --> 00:53:49,240 Speaker 1: why leave a comment down below. Of course, as always, 934 00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:52,600 Speaker 1: share this video, discuss it with your friends, families, coworks. 935 00:53:52,600 --> 00:53:54,719 Speaker 1: We've got to continue to wake people up and that's 936 00:53:54,719 --> 00:53:56,080 Speaker 1: what I got to your success. 937 00:53:56,480 --> 00:53:56,879 Speaker 2: I'm out.