1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:06,120 Speaker 1: Paper Ghosts is a production of I Heart Radio. Among 2 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:09,640 Speaker 1: the cold cases, twenty year old Susan Lrosa banished on 3 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:13,600 Speaker 1: a trip to a story in Rockville in She was 4 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:16,040 Speaker 1: supposed to go there to get the babies in formula 5 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 1: and to call my mom, who pay phone, and she 6 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 1: never came. Hard. The disappearance of Susan LaRosa has never 7 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:32,120 Speaker 1: officially been associated with the other missing girls. Her face 8 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:35,479 Speaker 1: or her case was never included on those missing person 9 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:40,639 Speaker 1: flyers posted around town. To law enforcement, there was no connection, 10 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:44,000 Speaker 1: maybe because she was more than a decade older than 11 00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:48,440 Speaker 1: the youngest of the girls. Still, as an investigator, I 12 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:52,120 Speaker 1: can't ignore facts, one of which is that within a 13 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:56,440 Speaker 1: seven year span, Susan LaRosa became the fourth female to 14 00:00:56,520 --> 00:01:00,200 Speaker 1: go missing, not just in the same town, but within 15 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:03,040 Speaker 1: a few miles of one another, and in three of 16 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:08,160 Speaker 1: the cases merely blocks away. I've asked the Vernon p 17 00:01:08,319 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 1: D if they ever considered these cases the work of 18 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:15,039 Speaker 1: a serial killer. When I hear of disappearances so similar 19 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:19,480 Speaker 1: occurring in the same general location, it's hard to ignore 20 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 1: the potential. But as I began speaking with detectives in 21 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:28,280 Speaker 1: two thousand nine, the year I started my investigation. They 22 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:31,959 Speaker 1: said they had looked at every possibility but discounted it. 23 00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:37,200 Speaker 1: I've interviewed serial killers throughout my career, written seven books 24 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:41,200 Speaker 1: about them, and the one common admission they all have 25 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:45,120 Speaker 1: shared is that there are no coincidences when children go 26 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 1: missing within this close proximity, and that you need to 27 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:54,559 Speaker 1: look not only for victim profile similarities, but location, time 28 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 1: of day, and opportunity. One serial killer who I've interviewed 29 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:02,640 Speaker 1: for the past state years insists that when the obvious 30 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:07,760 Speaker 1: presents itself, believe it because most serial abduction cases are 31 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:11,600 Speaker 1: not the work of a diabolical genius or criminal mastermind. 32 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:17,320 Speaker 1: They are committed by a disorganized, deviant, hyper focused on 33 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:21,639 Speaker 1: one goal who will make mistakes. As he's told me, 34 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:28,200 Speaker 1: find those common mistakes and you find your killer. You 35 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:31,000 Speaker 1: can hear him here in an interview I conducted years ago, 36 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:35,079 Speaker 1: as he puts the mindset of a serial killer into perspective. 37 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:42,919 Speaker 1: His name Keith Hunter, Jesperson, the happy Face killer. There's 38 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:46,919 Speaker 1: a wonderment of whether or not I want to kill 39 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:49,359 Speaker 1: or not. I was, I was kind of I'm kind 40 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:51,800 Speaker 1: of wired, maybe a little different than most. Like you know, 41 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 1: most pure killers are not criminals. You understand this right, 42 00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:58,880 Speaker 1: explain whereas a serial killer is not necessary a criminal 43 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:02,160 Speaker 1: at all, he's just killer and others I'm not. I 44 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:04,079 Speaker 1: won't go out of my way to rob someone. I 45 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:06,600 Speaker 1: won't go out, I won't do I won't home invade. 46 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:09,640 Speaker 1: I won't do this, of course, p K K. Dad. 47 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:12,520 Speaker 1: But he didn't go in there to rob. He went 48 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:16,040 Speaker 1: in to kill. Our motive is actually just to kill. 49 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:27,320 Speaker 1: Previously on Paper Ghosts, she was with a group of 50 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:30,200 Speaker 1: young men and her friend who was the same age 51 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:35,160 Speaker 1: as her, and they went joy riding. There is drinking involved, 52 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:39,520 Speaker 1: and they decided to throw pumpkins at the window and 53 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 1: we're pulled over and they took Lisa to the state 54 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 1: police barracks. He came over to my house. She um 55 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 1: she wanted to leave my mom and dad and no, 56 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:54,440 Speaker 1: saying that she was very sorry and and you know, 57 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 1: embarrassed that you know, we got in trouble. And at 58 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:00,400 Speaker 1: that point she decided, you know, she was gonna leave 59 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 1: and try and hitchhike home and never made it home. 60 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 1: And I'll never forget it. She came to my house 61 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:10,840 Speaker 1: and a flirt and she said, I wish it was you. 62 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 1: I wish it was a stay. My name is and 63 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 1: William Phelps. This is paper ghosts. The connection between Susan 64 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:37,359 Speaker 1: LaRosa and one of the other missing girls became apparent 65 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:40,160 Speaker 1: to me when I was speaking to Maria Scrow, who 66 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:43,440 Speaker 1: you heard in the last episode. Maria was Lisa White's 67 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:45,920 Speaker 1: best friend and the last person to see Lisa alive 68 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:53,560 Speaker 1: minutes before she presumably hitchhiked home alone. Maria told me 69 00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:58,960 Speaker 1: she used to babysit for the LaRosa family. Think about 70 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:02,280 Speaker 1: that for a moment. Lisa White's best friend baby set 71 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:05,559 Speaker 1: for a girl who would herself go missing a year 72 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:09,120 Speaker 1: after Lisa. I had never heard this before, and I 73 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 1: know law enforcement had no clue. Not one detective had 74 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:17,800 Speaker 1: ever asked the question, and to be fair, why would they. 75 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:20,480 Speaker 1: But knowing what I now know, it has to be 76 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:24,960 Speaker 1: considered cold case work is as much about inclusion as 77 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:32,640 Speaker 1: it is about exclusion. Susan was a young mom, just 78 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 1: twenty years old and already she had three young children. 79 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 1: She had dark black hair cut just above her shoulders 80 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:44,000 Speaker 1: Peter Pan style. Susan was petite, four ft eight inches tall, 81 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:49,120 Speaker 1: nine pounds, green eyes. That's the extent of what you'd 82 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:51,679 Speaker 1: know about Susan. Rossa if you read about her case 83 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:55,280 Speaker 1: in the newspapers, But after years of looking into her 84 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:59,039 Speaker 1: story and reviewing documents never before seen by the public, 85 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:03,240 Speaker 1: I knew better than to take anything at face value. 86 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 1: You gotta understand our family was a very, uh fractured family. 87 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:16,480 Speaker 1: There wasn't much love or attention. That's and Prentice one 88 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:20,479 Speaker 1: of Susan Leross's four sisters and was the second oldest, 89 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 1: just one year younger than Susan. My mother only had 90 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:30,880 Speaker 1: attention our time for Sue. So was her child, and 91 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 1: the other children really didn't exist. So she was a 92 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:40,279 Speaker 1: lot of trouble. Sue was into drugs. Sue had abortion, 93 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:45,640 Speaker 1: Sue had overdoses, she had she she would run off 94 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:49,480 Speaker 1: with this guy, that guy she was having sex with 95 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 1: my uncle's she. I mean, it was it was a hellhouse. 96 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:58,559 Speaker 1: And then Sue got married to Robert and she moved out, 97 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:03,320 Speaker 1: and my mo seems to be happy. At that point, 98 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:06,880 Speaker 1: she thought, Wow, somebody took herross night hands and he's 99 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:13,560 Speaker 1: going to make everything wonderful. Robert is Bob LaRosa. Susan 100 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 1: was eighteen when she moved out of her family's home 101 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:20,920 Speaker 1: and married Bob. Throughout my interviews, and research, I've developed 102 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:25,440 Speaker 1: two varying versions of how they met. One person close 103 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:28,280 Speaker 1: to Bob told me he met Susan while she was 104 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:31,880 Speaker 1: in a psychiatric hospital, as he was there visiting someone else. 105 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:36,560 Speaker 1: That same as lots of public reports and other information 106 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:41,240 Speaker 1: I've dug up in Susan's case is false. Susan and 107 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 1: Bob lived less than a mile from each other on 108 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:46,840 Speaker 1: Crystal Lake. There can be no doubt they hooked up 109 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:50,160 Speaker 1: because they were neighbors, which is the version everyone of 110 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:56,440 Speaker 1: Susan's immediate family members agrees with. Ever since Susan's disappearance 111 00:07:56,440 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 1: in nine, her family has kept out of the a spotlight. 112 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:04,440 Speaker 1: I've spoken to many of them over the years about 113 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:07,200 Speaker 1: when they'd feel ready to talk about what happened to Susan, 114 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:11,440 Speaker 1: and they believe it's now or never forgot about me 115 00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:15,520 Speaker 1: and my sister and Terry Shanks's Susan Leros's youngest sister. 116 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 1: What kind of guy is Bob to your sister? Babolo 117 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:25,120 Speaker 1: Rosa was a very um, quiet kind of guy. Their 118 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:31,000 Speaker 1: dynamic was kind of odd, like she uh wasn't the 119 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:35,920 Speaker 1: best housekeeper, wasn't the best cook? She uh? I guess 120 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 1: one time baked cake and it fell apart, so she 121 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:41,480 Speaker 1: scotch taped it together and thought it would be okay. 122 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:44,280 Speaker 1: But you know whatever, she was just a free spirit 123 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:46,720 Speaker 1: kind of gal. Would you say he was a good 124 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:50,240 Speaker 1: husband tour, Yes, I do. I wish he would have 125 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:53,400 Speaker 1: been better in that he would have been stronger and 126 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:56,640 Speaker 1: crushed her when it came to the kids. As far 127 00:08:56,679 --> 00:08:59,360 Speaker 1: as her discipline, he was never home. He was always 128 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 1: a single sprat medaling with him. He didn't have a 129 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:04,960 Speaker 1: real job. He and I used to drive around the 130 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 1: Lake and Stafford area and look for scrat medal and 131 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:09,440 Speaker 1: then we go to the junkyard and sell it so 132 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 1: he could put food on the table. Susan and Bob 133 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:16,040 Speaker 1: had two sons, Maurice who goes by Moe and Robert 134 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:21,480 Speaker 1: Robbie Jr. And a daughter, Stacy, the oldest. Each child 135 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:24,720 Speaker 1: is nine months apart. But there was something about Susan's 136 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:29,319 Speaker 1: middle child, Terry says that turns Susan off, that scared her. 137 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:33,760 Speaker 1: Susan did not like the middle child, Robbie, and for 138 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:37,240 Speaker 1: whatever reason treated him the most poorly out of the three. 139 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:41,720 Speaker 1: My sister Sue was not a good mother. She was 140 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 1: She's a horrible mother. Actually, she was an abusive mother. 141 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:48,600 Speaker 1: She didn't know how to love, She didn't know how 142 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:53,200 Speaker 1: to be a mom. These kids were not what she wanted. 143 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:57,760 Speaker 1: They never were what she wanted. And was Bob involved 144 00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:01,960 Speaker 1: in drugs to my knowledge? No, to my knowledge he 145 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:06,439 Speaker 1: was not. Would you say she loved Bob in her way? Yes? 146 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:09,600 Speaker 1: I I she had an odd way of Susan was 147 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:14,280 Speaker 1: a brilliant young woman. She was brilliant, but unfortunately she 148 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 1: got involved with heroin. Yeah, that was a demon she 149 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:21,320 Speaker 1: had before she met Robert. So Robert was sort of 150 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:27,040 Speaker 1: like someone that was helping save her. On the day 151 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:33,880 Speaker 1: Susan LaRosa went missing June, her husband Bob told police 152 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:37,959 Speaker 1: Susan left their Rockville, Connecticut apartment in the early evening 153 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:41,280 Speaker 1: to go to the nearby drug store, something she did 154 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:45,960 Speaker 1: every day, and never returned home. I wondered what Terry 155 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:51,319 Speaker 1: recalled from those early days after her sister vanished, feelings, thoughts, memories. 156 00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:55,720 Speaker 1: To me, the questions we ask are as important as 157 00:10:55,760 --> 00:11:00,160 Speaker 1: the answers we get. A month to the day that 158 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:04,160 Speaker 1: she went missing was her twenty one birthday, and she 159 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:07,640 Speaker 1: always told my mom, on my twenty one birthday, I'm 160 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:09,920 Speaker 1: coming by. The use I'm gonna be streaking. You watch, 161 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 1: you wait for me, You wait for me, I'm gonna 162 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 1: come running by, you know, streaking, being totally buck naked. 163 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:18,920 Speaker 1: That's what that was her plan. So my mom the 164 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:24,440 Speaker 1: whole day sat there, probably smoked three packs of cigarettes waiting. 165 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:37,160 Speaker 1: This kills me never time. But she never came. She 166 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:44,840 Speaker 1: never came, And that's what that's when everything fell apart. 167 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:54,640 Speaker 1: My mother could not she did not have a function. 168 00:11:55,960 --> 00:11:58,199 Speaker 1: She did not know what to do, She didn't know 169 00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:01,679 Speaker 1: what should too. She didn't know how to walk, she 170 00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:03,560 Speaker 1: didn't how to talk, she didn't know how to be. 171 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:16,360 Speaker 1: Susan was her first born, Susan at the same time. Uh, 172 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:20,360 Speaker 1: Susan and my mum went through a lot together. They 173 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:43,760 Speaker 1: were very close. That are very close. Bund To get 174 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 1: a better understanding, I need to take a look at 175 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:49,520 Speaker 1: what happened on the night Susan Rose had disappeared. There 176 00:12:49,559 --> 00:12:53,120 Speaker 1: are facts I can report with absolute certainty, facts made 177 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:56,160 Speaker 1: public here for the first time in forty five years, 178 00:12:56,720 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 1: which begin to not only answer a lot of questions, 179 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:02,000 Speaker 1: but lead me to cluse in several of the other 180 00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:06,960 Speaker 1: missing girl cases. For example, I know from law enforcement 181 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:10,640 Speaker 1: documents written the day after Susan went missing that Bob 182 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:14,640 Speaker 1: Larossa told police he and Susan argued because Susan struck 183 00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:22,320 Speaker 1: one of the kids. Again, here's Susan's sister, Terry Shanks. Uh. 184 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:26,960 Speaker 1: She went off on a little one and she backhanded him, 185 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:33,280 Speaker 1: split his head open. Kid was bleeding profusely. So you're 186 00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:36,920 Speaker 1: talking about the nights she went missing, that that she hit. 187 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:41,640 Speaker 1: She did hit, Yes, she did hit him. In a 188 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:45,520 Speaker 1: police report I've obtained, Bob LaRosa claims Susan hit their 189 00:13:45,559 --> 00:13:49,080 Speaker 1: middle child, Robert, who was only eighteen months old at 190 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:53,760 Speaker 1: the time. The injury caused Robert to bleed. The family 191 00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:56,480 Speaker 1: has always believed it was a wound to the boy's head, 192 00:13:57,400 --> 00:14:01,760 Speaker 1: but police reports confirmed it was his bottom lower lip 193 00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:04,720 Speaker 1: and that the cut was not bad at all. This 194 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:08,720 Speaker 1: all happened on the day Susan disappeared. There's no mention 195 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:13,200 Speaker 1: of a head wound. According to Bob, Susan then grabbed 196 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:16,360 Speaker 1: a ten dollar bill and a quarter and left the apartment. 197 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:20,600 Speaker 1: Bob said Susan left their apartment at approximately six thirty 198 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:23,280 Speaker 1: pm to go to the drug store to call her 199 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:27,040 Speaker 1: mother and pick up baby formula. There was only one 200 00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:31,400 Speaker 1: drug store nearby, Arthur's Drugs. Susan was there every day, 201 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:36,400 Speaker 1: same time, using the pay phone, buying cigarettes and baby items. 202 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:41,000 Speaker 1: Maria Scrow, the l Rosa babysitter and Lisa White's best friend, 203 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:44,560 Speaker 1: confirmed this detail for me, that Susan would call her 204 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:47,480 Speaker 1: mother every day from a payphone at Arthur's Drugs, just 205 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:52,360 Speaker 1: a few short blocks west of the Larossa's apartment. When 206 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:56,920 Speaker 1: Susan failed to return home, Bob called relatives with no results. 207 00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:01,800 Speaker 1: At twelve thirty nine pm the now day, eighteen hours later, 208 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 1: Bob la Rossa called the Vernon p D to report 209 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 1: Susan was missing. He said his wife did not come home, 210 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:12,960 Speaker 1: but he did not want to file a missing person 211 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:16,400 Speaker 1: report yet. It was not until later that same day, 212 00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:21,440 Speaker 1: near dark, when Bob decided to file one. The question 213 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:25,760 Speaker 1: is why wait almost twenty four hours later before filing 214 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 1: a report? Going on? What's going on? How are you? 215 00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 1: How long you've been How long you've been made your crimes? No, 216 00:15:56,520 --> 00:16:01,240 Speaker 1: it's been a toll about six years now investigations. Lieutenant 217 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:03,280 Speaker 1: Bill Meyer has been with the Vernon Police and now 218 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:06,560 Speaker 1: heads made your crimes since two thousand two. He stands 219 00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:09,240 Speaker 1: six ft or so and has that familiar buzz cut 220 00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:12,160 Speaker 1: you'd expect to see on a cop. Bill is one 221 00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:15,680 Speaker 1: of the most practical investigators I know in the Tritown region. 222 00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:19,560 Speaker 1: He is unafraid to say when cops have made mistakes 223 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:23,000 Speaker 1: or they go above and beyond, which is something I 224 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:27,280 Speaker 1: greatly appreciate. That kind of honesty and self evaluation is 225 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:34,160 Speaker 1: imperative when reinvestigating cold cases. I've known Bill for a 226 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:36,840 Speaker 1: long time and have an immense amount of respect for 227 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:40,480 Speaker 1: the guy. He stopped by my office one morning as 228 00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:43,480 Speaker 1: I was immersed in the cases. We stood in my 229 00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:48,040 Speaker 1: garage talking catching up. He explained a few things to 230 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:50,520 Speaker 1: me off the record, putting a new perspective on the 231 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:53,600 Speaker 1: notion that what you read and here online about cold 232 00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:58,160 Speaker 1: cases is likely fifty or more bullshit. You really have 233 00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:01,760 Speaker 1: to see actual documents and photos to truly understand what 234 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:07,080 Speaker 1: you're working with, and in these cases, those resources, including 235 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 1: interviews with witnesses and family and even suspects, is really 236 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:19,200 Speaker 1: all we have to go on. What's the worst investigation 237 00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:22,440 Speaker 1: you've been involved in Inverna Off the top of your head, 238 00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:27,000 Speaker 1: I mean, there's there's definitely different ways to categorize worst 239 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:30,199 Speaker 1: the ones that keep me up at night. Yeah, I 240 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:32,160 Speaker 1: mean a lot of the a lot of the child cases, 241 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:35,520 Speaker 1: especially with young children. Is there a lot of sexual 242 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:43,080 Speaker 1: exploitation going on still several months. If we go back 243 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:47,199 Speaker 1: to the sixties and seventies, women families didn't report that 244 00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:50,320 Speaker 1: stuff right now. It was a different time. And I 245 00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:53,080 Speaker 1: think too, I think they were scared that a police 246 00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:57,400 Speaker 1: wouldn't believe them. Uh, certainly their parents wouldn't believe them, right. 247 00:17:57,880 --> 00:17:59,520 Speaker 1: And a lot of people have told me that I've 248 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:02,440 Speaker 1: interviewed in all these cases have said, you know, we 249 00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:05,280 Speaker 1: were told what happens in this house stays in this house. 250 00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:08,520 Speaker 1: You know. Yeah, in the eighties, I mean, domestic violence 251 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:11,720 Speaker 1: really came of age. Tracy Thurman case out in Torring, 252 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:14,159 Speaker 1: tim was kind of one of the turning points in 253 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:18,920 Speaker 1: Connecticut and across the country. The Tracy Thurman case was 254 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 1: a high profile watershed moment in the country with regards 255 00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:26,960 Speaker 1: to how domestic violence was viewed. In May three, Tracy 256 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:30,199 Speaker 1: Thurman called the Torrington, Connecticut Police department and reported that 257 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:34,120 Speaker 1: her strange husband had beaten her and was now threatening 258 00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:38,520 Speaker 1: the killer. The Torrington police told Tracy to come back 259 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:43,000 Speaker 1: in three weeks when the officer handling domestic cases returned 260 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:47,719 Speaker 1: from vacation. Two weeks later, she called again. This time 261 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:51,760 Speaker 1: one officer arrived and twenty one year old Tracy lay 262 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:55,960 Speaker 1: critically wounded from multiple stab wounds, bloodied in her front 263 00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:58,879 Speaker 1: yard as her husband stood over her with a knife. 264 00:18:59,359 --> 00:19:02,359 Speaker 1: The husband was not arrested. He even kicked Tracy in 265 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 1: the head in front of the officer. Was not until 266 00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:07,840 Speaker 1: her husband tried to assault her as she lay on 267 00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:11,560 Speaker 1: a stretcher and was being placed inside an ambulance that 268 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:15,240 Speaker 1: he was finally put in handcuffs. Tracy sued the town. 269 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:17,920 Speaker 1: There was a book and movie made about the case, 270 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:25,359 Speaker 1: and Tracy became the face of domestic violence reform. Bill continues, 271 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:29,560 Speaker 1: explaining it from a law enforcement perspective thirty forty years ago, 272 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:35,520 Speaker 1: in the reality, honestly sickening, police used to handle domestic 273 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:38,280 Speaker 1: violence and just for the warning, you know, and and 274 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:41,479 Speaker 1: they would tell husbands, you know, control your wife, or 275 00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:46,639 Speaker 1: I'll go back inside. Don't call us. Now, completely different procedures, 276 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:50,160 Speaker 1: and when mandatory arrests and mandatory refer all the services, 277 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:53,240 Speaker 1: and our focus is really on stopping the cycle of 278 00:19:53,280 --> 00:20:00,840 Speaker 1: domestic violence. But it wasn't just men abuse of women. 279 00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:06,119 Speaker 1: Subject rarely talked about then, was women abusing men or 280 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:10,399 Speaker 1: wives abusing their husbands. Susan didn't limit her abuse to 281 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:13,560 Speaker 1: just her children. I've learned from her sister and that 282 00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:16,720 Speaker 1: Bob was subject to her violence as well. I saw 283 00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:19,280 Speaker 1: her crack them over the head with a cast iron 284 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:23,320 Speaker 1: frying pan where he needed stitches, and he didn't do 285 00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:26,640 Speaker 1: a thing about it because it just wasn't in him 286 00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:28,920 Speaker 1: to do that, And he put up with a lot. 287 00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:34,120 Speaker 1: So we know violence was common in LaRosa home, most 288 00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:38,480 Speaker 1: definitely from Susan. According to a police report I've obtained 289 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:42,280 Speaker 1: within the year leading up to her disappearance, Susan had 290 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:46,840 Speaker 1: actually stabbed Bob during a heated argument and abused her children. 291 00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:50,800 Speaker 1: So if abusers could get away with beating and stabbing 292 00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:54,600 Speaker 1: their spouses, think about what else they got away with 293 00:20:54,920 --> 00:21:06,359 Speaker 1: inside the home. It was a gruesome discovery, kind of 294 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:09,080 Speaker 1: the last thing loggers widening an interstate here in Burning, 295 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:15,040 Speaker 1: Connecticut would have ever thought they'd come upon. Unlike the 296 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:19,639 Speaker 1: other missing girl cases I've been investigating, Susan Larosa's story 297 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:25,720 Speaker 1: actually had tangible evidence. On May nineteen nine, about three 298 00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:30,160 Speaker 1: years after she went missing, construction workers widening Interstate eight 299 00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:34,040 Speaker 1: six in Vernon Rockville discovered what was left of Susan's 300 00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:36,840 Speaker 1: body in a wooded area off an old logging road. 301 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:40,720 Speaker 1: This was about three point six miles away from the 302 00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:45,879 Speaker 1: LaRosa Apartment today, as it was back then, the area 303 00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:49,440 Speaker 1: is dense woods and very secluded, the kind of place 304 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:52,280 Speaker 1: where kids in the seventies and eighties held keg parties 305 00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:55,800 Speaker 1: and bonfires. I can say, from my experience as an 306 00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:58,359 Speaker 1: investigator and someone who has lived in the town most 307 00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:01,639 Speaker 1: of my life, who ever dumped Susan le Ross's body 308 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:07,720 Speaker 1: out there knew that area very well. That's not where 309 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:11,120 Speaker 1: you're gonna dump a body if you're not in a hurry. 310 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:15,919 Speaker 1: You know, if if Susan fell victim to a serial killer, 311 00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:19,240 Speaker 1: I I don't think that's where they would have founded her. 312 00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:24,600 Speaker 1: Retired detective John Collins was the lieutenant in charge of 313 00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:27,320 Speaker 1: major crimes for the Vernon Police Department back in two 314 00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:31,960 Speaker 1: thousand two. In two thousand four, his department made a 315 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:36,920 Speaker 1: concerted effort to reopen Susan Leros's case. There is arguably 316 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:39,960 Speaker 1: no one else who knows more about Susan's murder than 317 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:45,880 Speaker 1: John Collins. Susan was found fully clothed, her pants fly 318 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:48,640 Speaker 1: was unbuttoned and her zipper down. She had no other 319 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:52,000 Speaker 1: injuries besides a fatal fracture to her skull. She only 320 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:55,240 Speaker 1: had two dimes in a nickel that's twenty five cents 321 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:59,880 Speaker 1: in her pocket. Remember, Bob Larossa told police Susan took 322 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:03,680 Speaker 1: ten dollars and a quarter when she left the house. 323 00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:08,359 Speaker 1: He made a point several times, durned several interviews over 324 00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:12,840 Speaker 1: the years to say a quarter. Why would Susan have 325 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:18,119 Speaker 1: then two dimes in a nickel on her well? A 326 00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:24,240 Speaker 1: pay phone call in Connecticut in cost a dime was 327 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:28,760 Speaker 1: Bob suggesting that his wife had a quarter because finding 328 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:31,440 Speaker 1: two dimes in a nickel on her meant she must 329 00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:34,560 Speaker 1: have reached the drug store after leaving their home and 330 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:38,480 Speaker 1: exchanged the quarter to make her daily call to her mother. 331 00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:44,480 Speaker 1: Much different from the other missing young girls I've been investigating. 332 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:47,800 Speaker 1: Law enforcement had leads to go on with regard to 333 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:53,919 Speaker 1: Susan's disappearance, mainly a crime scene, albeit secondary because it 334 00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:57,119 Speaker 1: was clear to the corner and detectives that Susan was 335 00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:02,840 Speaker 1: not murdered at the location her remains were und They 336 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:06,119 Speaker 1: also had a huge bread crumb to follow. The last 337 00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:11,880 Speaker 1: person to see Susan alive before she went missing, her husband, 338 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:19,280 Speaker 1: Bob LaRosa. Even though uh, Bob looked like a prime suspect, 339 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:22,679 Speaker 1: you know, we we still we went about it with 340 00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:26,919 Speaker 1: an open mind, and the information that we got didn't 341 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:31,800 Speaker 1: really point us in any other directions. Weeks after Susan's 342 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:35,240 Speaker 1: body was discovered, Bob LaRosa was taken into police custody 343 00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:40,240 Speaker 1: and questioned for two hours. At the time, law enforcement 344 00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:43,760 Speaker 1: publicly stated Bob was not a suspect and foul play 345 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:48,520 Speaker 1: was not a path they were pursuing. It was a ploy, 346 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:50,280 Speaker 1: you know, to make him feel as though he was 347 00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:53,760 Speaker 1: helping the investigation, and he was not a person of interest. 348 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:58,560 Speaker 1: But in reality, there were no other suspects besides Bob. 349 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:02,600 Speaker 1: B done the police report, which has not been made 350 00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:07,879 Speaker 1: public until now, Bob told police he believed Susan was 351 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:11,840 Speaker 1: not messing around with other guys, but to everyone in 352 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:15,320 Speaker 1: Susan's family at the time, and later, when talking publicly 353 00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:21,640 Speaker 1: to the Harvard Current newspaper, Bob starkly contradicted himself, saying, quote, 354 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:24,159 Speaker 1: I was under the impression that she took off with 355 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:28,560 Speaker 1: another guy. She was always flirting with other guys end quote. 356 00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:33,120 Speaker 1: They had a very tumultuous relationship. There was cheating on 357 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:40,000 Speaker 1: both sides. There was uh indications of domestic violence, domestic issues, 358 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:45,040 Speaker 1: and as you know, when a woman goes missing and 359 00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:48,720 Speaker 1: when a woman turns up dead, if you just blindly 360 00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:53,639 Speaker 1: went and arrested the husband, you have a good batting average. 361 00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:58,840 Speaker 1: Family members have told me that Susan's emotional mental state 362 00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:02,000 Speaker 1: was stable, in her physical condition good on the day 363 00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:06,639 Speaker 1: she disappeared, But Bob would routinely chastise his wife's mental 364 00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:10,600 Speaker 1: state to her family. He consistently told one story to 365 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:14,359 Speaker 1: police in a different story to family and friends, which 366 00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:19,040 Speaker 1: in the eyes of law enforcement, made him a prime suspect. 367 00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:27,960 Speaker 1: The truth is inherent, infallible, It does not change. At 368 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:30,879 Speaker 1: one point during that interview, a detective, in what I 369 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:35,119 Speaker 1: think is a brilliant Columbu like move, casually explained to 370 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:39,040 Speaker 1: Bob that if he had, you know, accidentally killed his wife, 371 00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:45,520 Speaker 1: it would be considered quote negligent homicide. Bob's response to that, 372 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:52,040 Speaker 1: how much time will I get? An innocent person doesn't 373 00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:55,480 Speaker 1: ask that question A hundred times out of a hundred times, 374 00:26:55,480 --> 00:27:02,800 Speaker 1: an innocent person does not ask that question. There was 375 00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:05,920 Speaker 1: never any official record of Bob being violent with Susan, 376 00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:10,600 Speaker 1: But look, I'm far from naive. I've written extensively about 377 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:14,200 Speaker 1: domestic violence cases, many of which have ended in murder 378 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:16,840 Speaker 1: the way it has always been explained to me by 379 00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:21,840 Speaker 1: experts as this. In se of murder cases, the victim 380 00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:26,000 Speaker 1: knows the murderer. According to the Centers for Disease Control, 381 00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:29,320 Speaker 1: over half of the killings of women in America are 382 00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:33,159 Speaker 1: related to intimate partner violence, with the vast majority of 383 00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:36,000 Speaker 1: the victims dying at the hands of a current or 384 00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:44,440 Speaker 1: former romantic partner. Staggering statistics. In other words, when a 385 00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:46,960 Speaker 1: wife is murdered, you would hit the bull's eye just 386 00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:50,200 Speaker 1: about every time if every dart you tossed was aimed 387 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:54,240 Speaker 1: at the husband. I had asked Susan's youngest sister, Terry, 388 00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:57,840 Speaker 1: what she believed happened that night between Susan and Bob, 389 00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:01,640 Speaker 1: the night Susan hit her middle child, split the inside 390 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:04,239 Speaker 1: of his lip, and supposedly left the apartment on her 391 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:09,480 Speaker 1: own to go to the drug store. I think that 392 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:15,520 Speaker 1: what happened was eventually, um, he had it. I think 393 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:20,480 Speaker 1: one night he got home from work and should happen. 394 00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:27,200 Speaker 1: So the theory the family has is that either Okay, 395 00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:29,520 Speaker 1: he went off on her because he couldn't take it 396 00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:32,680 Speaker 1: anymore and he was trying to protect his kid. So 397 00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:35,800 Speaker 1: he either took a piece of pipe that he always 398 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:38,920 Speaker 1: had in the house because he always collected it and 399 00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:42,600 Speaker 1: knocked her with it, or he just knocked her down 400 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,560 Speaker 1: and she smashed her head against the tub. Terry then 401 00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:48,800 Speaker 1: described what else the family has always believed, because she 402 00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:51,680 Speaker 1: did die of a fractured skull. I pointed to my 403 00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:55,120 Speaker 1: head and asked where exactly was in the back of 404 00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:57,000 Speaker 1: the head, back of the head, back of the head, 405 00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:00,240 Speaker 1: because I've heard now front of the head, and now 406 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:03,720 Speaker 1: I hear back definitely back there. Yes, I didn't mention 407 00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:06,360 Speaker 1: this during the interview, but I've seen the crime scene 408 00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:10,760 Speaker 1: photos which include close ups of susan skull. She had 409 00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:13,719 Speaker 1: no injuries to the back of her head. The injury 410 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:18,200 Speaker 1: that killed Susan Larrossa, according to her autopsy report, was 411 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:21,240 Speaker 1: to the front of her head, just above her forehead 412 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:27,400 Speaker 1: on the right side. Susan LaRosa stared at her killer. 413 00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:30,760 Speaker 1: She was struck with a fatal blow to her head. 414 00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:36,920 Speaker 1: So you think Bob killed your sister. Do you think 415 00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:40,920 Speaker 1: he acted alone? In the next step of that, no, 416 00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:52,520 Speaker 1: I do not. In the next episode of Paper Ghosts, 417 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:56,440 Speaker 1: I have night tears. I see my mom. She's changing 418 00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:58,920 Speaker 1: my one to changing table. She turned around. She sat 419 00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:01,320 Speaker 1: my brother in the face, right on the nose, and 420 00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:05,640 Speaker 1: it bled, it bled, It was leading. Did your dad 421 00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:10,160 Speaker 1: ever have the station wagon? Um? Yeah, um we owned 422 00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:13,760 Speaker 1: the station wagon the gentlemen and that was there that 423 00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:17,200 Speaker 1: showed up. He has on a red and black checkered 424 00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:21,000 Speaker 1: um flannel shirt and he smells even now to this 425 00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:23,560 Speaker 1: day at I can't smell that smell without like freezing. 426 00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:29,400 Speaker 1: Paper Ghosts is written and executive produced by me and 427 00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:33,480 Speaker 1: William Phelps, with help from producer Christine Everett and sound 428 00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:37,480 Speaker 1: editing by Pete Cardi from back Room Audio. A special 429 00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:41,240 Speaker 1: thanks to Abou Safar and will Pearson from My Heart Radio. 430 00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:45,120 Speaker 1: The series theme number four four two is written and 431 00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:51,400 Speaker 1: performed by Tom Mooney and Thomas Phelps. For more podcasts 432 00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:54,560 Speaker 1: for My Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, 433 00:30:54,720 --> 00:31:01,840 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.