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Speaker 1: This is Frosted Tips with Lance Bass, an iHeartRadio podcast. Hello,

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Speaker 1: my little Peanuts, it's me your host, Lance Bass. This

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Speaker 1: is Frosted Tips with me Lance Bass and my co host,

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Speaker 1: my lovely husband, Turkey Turkychin.

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Speaker 2: Hello. I like that. Yeah, it's an.

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Speaker 1: It's excited. We have Darren Hayes On's day. I know

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Speaker 1: loved me some Savage Garden.

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Speaker 2: I was a huge fan of Savage Garden.

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Speaker 1: I remember when we first started out, you know, with

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Speaker 1: the group. It's like ninety six when we went over

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Speaker 1: to Germany, they were just coming out also, and so

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Speaker 1: we would kind of run into them a good bit

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Speaker 1: and just love them.

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Speaker 3: So it's such a great group.

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Speaker 2: Oh, you'll have a nice ketch up.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I see, I don't think I've probably

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Speaker 1: not seen him in twenty years.

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Speaker 3: Well, yeah, so we have a lot to catch up

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Speaker 3: on a lot.

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Speaker 1: And speaking of catching up on, we have to catch

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Speaker 1: up on on my New York trip. I know, guys,

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Speaker 1: all right, so thank god we can finally talk about it.

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Speaker 1: As you know by now, we have a new song

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Speaker 1: coming out on the twenty ninth called Better Place.

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Speaker 3: It is far a movie that we.

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Speaker 1: Cannot discuss, but I think all of you know, because

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Speaker 1: we are still in a strike right now, and I

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Speaker 1: think the strike's going to go for a very very

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Speaker 1: long time.

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Speaker 3: So the sad news is we probably won't ever be able.

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Speaker 1: To promote this movie. But the en Sync fans are

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Speaker 1: so freaking awesome that.

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Speaker 3: I don't even think.

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Speaker 1: I don't think we need to promote it because you

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Speaker 1: guys have just been so excited about this and made

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Speaker 1: it definitely go viral.

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Speaker 3: So I think we have the best fans in the world.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I have to agree.

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Speaker 4: Well, I think you should talk a little about the VMA's.

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Speaker 1: Well okay, so yeah, So we just went and presented

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Speaker 1: in the hopes that Taylor Swift would win because that,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I felt like she was going.

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Speaker 3: To sweep the whole thing, so I can't prepare it.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, if she wins, I had these bracelets,

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Speaker 1: I have to have to give a friendship brace No,

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Speaker 1: it's like the thing to do, and it's the ultimate

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Speaker 1: swifty move to give her an actual friendship bracelet.

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Speaker 2: So you guys are like, officially BFx.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, we're pretty much Wow. No, it was it

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Speaker 3: was a really fun night.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I didn't know what to expect, but I

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Speaker 1: definitely did not expect the aftermath of that.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, I mean there's really not much I can

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Speaker 3: like say, because.

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Speaker 2: I know you didn't you just leave right after you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean this is definitely a different VMA's because

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Speaker 1: you know, usually you're there for the whole show.

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Speaker 3: It's it's different now.

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Speaker 1: I feel like back in my day, you know, you went,

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Speaker 1: even if you weren't nominated, you went.

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Speaker 3: You know, the whole industry came.

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Speaker 2: It was it was like the place to be seen.

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Speaker 1: Now it's kind of like the only people that go

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Speaker 1: are the ones that probably going to win, and so

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Speaker 1: it just feels a little more contrived.

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Speaker 3: I do like how performance heavy it's gotten.

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Speaker 2: Yeah that's good.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, but.

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Speaker 1: Unfortunately we yeah we stayed for thirty minutes. We were

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Speaker 1: the first ones there. But yeah, no, I mean it

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Speaker 1: was it was awesome. It was great, you know to

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Speaker 1: be on that stage with those guys. You know, we

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Speaker 1: even did, you know, photo shoot the next day. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: so thanks guys for like, yeah, supporting us so much

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Speaker 1: during all of this. You know, at least we are

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Speaker 1: going to have new music very soon and then yeah,

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Speaker 1: we'll see where it goes from there. You know, lots

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Speaker 1: of talk, no solid plans just yet, because we know

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Speaker 1: we're just gonna have to.

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Speaker 3: Pivot a lot. But but yeah, things are looking really nice.

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Speaker 2: I love it for the future me too.

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Speaker 1: All right, well, you know what I'm excited for Our guests,

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Speaker 1: Our guest Darren Hayes.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yes, we have a lot to catch up on.

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Speaker 1: So when we come back, we're gonna have one and

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Speaker 1: only front man up Savage Garden.

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Speaker 3: Darren Hayes.

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Speaker 1: Darren Stanley Hayes is an Australian singer, songwriter, music producer

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Speaker 1: and composer. He was the frontman and singer of the

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Speaker 1: pop duo Savage Garden. Their ninety seven album, Savage Garden

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Speaker 1: peaked at number one in Australia, number two in the UK,

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Speaker 1: number three in the United States one two three. It

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Speaker 1: spawned the singles I Want You to the Moon and

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Speaker 1: Back and in Australian and US number one, Truly, Madly

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Speaker 1: Deeply Savage Garden part of Ways in two thousand and one.

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Speaker 1: Hayes released his first solo album, Spin in two thousand

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Speaker 1: and two, which sold two million copies worldwide, debuted at

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Speaker 1: number two in the UK, number three in Australia, and

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Speaker 1: after a decade long hiatus, Hayes returned in twenty twenty

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Speaker 1: two with his fifth studio album, Homosexual which I cannot

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Speaker 1: wait to talk about, which was released in October. Darren,

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Speaker 1: welcome to the show.

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Speaker 5: Nice. Nice to finally do it. I know I was.

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Speaker 5: I was ill actually the first time you invited me,

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Speaker 5: so thanks for being psichond of course, but I'm here.

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Speaker 1: We will always hold a spot for you, Darren always.

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Speaker 1: We were just talking before we started the show. It's

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Speaker 1: been since the nineties. I think we've actually seen each

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Speaker 1: other face to face. That was Top of the Pops

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Speaker 1: back in England. Yeah, which I don't even think there

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Speaker 1: is a Top of the Pops anymore. Did that finally

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Speaker 1: go away? Yeah? For people that don't understand Top of

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Speaker 1: the Pops, it was the biggest music show in England

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Speaker 1: from the fifties till it ended up just a few

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Speaker 1: years ago.

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Speaker 5: And the way attended it was really sad too.

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Speaker 6: It happened. I don't know how did it that well?

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Speaker 5: It went from like biggest show in the world, well

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Speaker 5: in Europe, and you know when the music industry obviously

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Speaker 5: was really successful and there was lots of money, and

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Speaker 5: there was lots of budgets for music videos and things

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Speaker 5: to the music industry just crashing because of no one

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Speaker 5: knew what to do about. I think it was naps,

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Speaker 5: oh yeah, And I just remember it went from one

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Speaker 5: day to having like all these SUVs and budgets for

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Speaker 5: styling and clothing and like let's turn this set into

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Speaker 5: like a space planet, to the next week it was like, yeah,

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Speaker 5: your band has to get the tube, which for Americans

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Speaker 5: is the train. Your band has to get the tube there,

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Speaker 5: and we have no budget for styling. Like it was

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Speaker 5: just just sear.

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Speaker 1: I all ever get because it was the first time

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Speaker 1: that we had to lip sync, because on that show

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Speaker 1: back of My Day, they would you were forced to

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Speaker 1: lips on it. There was no live anything. And I

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Speaker 1: remember we were so because as a boy band, of

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Speaker 1: course everyone's like they lip sync, and we were so

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Speaker 1: dead set against like we can not do this, we

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Speaker 1: can't do this. We're like, well, it's top of the pops,

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Speaker 1: you kind of have to do this.

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Speaker 5: That must have been really offensive to you guys.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it was. It sucked, but we kind

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Speaker 1: of we understood. We're like, okay, well at Europe, I

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Speaker 1: guess this is what they do over here. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: then the couple of times that we did it, because

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Speaker 1: you know, we started in Germany and the first couple

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Speaker 1: of television shows that they're like, well everyone lipsticks, We're like, well, no,

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Speaker 1: we're not doing that, and then they would allow us

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Speaker 1: to sing live. Now we understand why everyone lives stinks,

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Speaker 1: because no one knows how to do live vocals on

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Speaker 1: any of these.

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Speaker 5: And on that show in particular, what happened was then

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Speaker 5: sort of grunge and nineties and I blame Natalie and

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Speaker 5: bergli Are. Actually it's always it's her fault. Her record

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Speaker 5: came out and everything in England was like Oasis or

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Speaker 5: Natalie and Burlei. Everyone was wearing just camo outfits and

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Speaker 5: everything was like not pop right, and certainly Top of

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Speaker 5: the Pops was like, you have to sing live, So

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Speaker 5: people who weren't talented were dying, so lots of careers

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Speaker 5: were They went up in flames for the two weeks

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Speaker 5: when Top of the Pops went sing live.

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Speaker 1: What I did love about that show is you didn't

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Speaker 1: even know what the charts were until you watch the show.

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Speaker 1: Like that was you didn't get a little preview of like, oh,

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Speaker 1: Billboard came out yesterday, your number two? No, you watch

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Speaker 1: the show to see what number you were?

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Speaker 4: What was like back in the TRL days as well? Yeah,

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Speaker 4: I mean you know, it wasn't the exact sorts, but

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Speaker 4: it was the shorts.

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Speaker 1: For the basically it was it meant more to number

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Speaker 1: one Onioar.

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Speaker 5: Can we spell the tea a little bit? On the

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Speaker 5: fact that I think it's pretty obvious now that we're

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Speaker 5: both gay and I are we doing some breaking news

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Speaker 5: right now?

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Speaker 6: Are you gaying this news to me?

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Speaker 5: It took me a long time to work that out,

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Speaker 5: like it really And I've seen and read a lot

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Speaker 5: of your interviews and they've always identify a lot with

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Speaker 5: your journey and everything, especially with the way the band

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Speaker 5: related to you. I had similar issues just internally with

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Speaker 5: the record label as well. I had this added layer

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Speaker 5: of shame where I absolutely hated myself and it wasn't

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Speaker 5: even sure if I was gay, so I went around

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Speaker 5: telling everybody I'm bisexual, that's thing. But I remember being

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Speaker 5: backstage at Top of the Pops and I had no

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Speaker 5: idea that we had that in common, and you were

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Speaker 5: being really cool, and I think you asked if, like

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Speaker 5: I wanted to hang out. And first of all, I'm

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Speaker 5: terrible with famous people, right, So you were instantly so

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Speaker 5: much more famous than me. Anyone I meet is always

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Speaker 5: more famous than me, right, So you were just like, hey,

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Speaker 5: we're going to go to a club because you know,

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Speaker 5: you're the lowest voice in the group.

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Speaker 1: You're going to go to the club tonight.

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Speaker 5: That sounds crazy. And I was just like, no, thanks,

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Speaker 5: I don't know what.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and then I stole your girl, Anna Maria, who.

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Speaker 5: You hung out with, Adam Marilla Spina.

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Speaker 1: That was my girl. I mean, I loved me and

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Speaker 1: you guys. And then she would you know, she would

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Speaker 1: definitely go to the bars with us out. Yeah, how

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Speaker 1: is she doing? I haven't told her in a while.

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Speaker 5: You know what, She's great. We're talking about backing vocalists

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Speaker 5: who used to work with me. Anna Marilla Spina, who

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Speaker 5: really sounded like Celean dionn oh.

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Speaker 1: Yes, incredible.

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Speaker 5: She's testament to the fact that sometimes in our business,

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Speaker 5: it does not matter how talented you are. Sometimes it's

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Speaker 5: just chance.

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Speaker 1: We see that with the voice, you know, it's you know,

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Speaker 1: the voice has the most talented singers song or singer

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Speaker 1: songwriters in the world that have had record deals before

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Speaker 1: that are writing top songs that are producing the butt

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Speaker 1: and none of them can pop.

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Speaker 6: It's it is.

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Speaker 1: It's insane how how many talented people are out there.

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Speaker 5: I think you just need a god shaped hole of

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Speaker 5: insecurity inside you.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, I just.

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Speaker 5: Needed the applause.

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Speaker 1: Well, going back to uh, you know when you started

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Speaker 1: and in holding that secret, because you know we do

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Speaker 1: relate on that, I do feel that it stifled your

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Speaker 1: creativity and your music at all.

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Speaker 5: This is going to sound like a sort of a

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Speaker 5: a very convoluted answer. I'll try to make it short.

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Speaker 5: It wasn't really a secret for me. I really did

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Speaker 5: struggle with my sexuality. I was married to a woman,

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Speaker 5: so that was a secret it I was trying to hide.

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Speaker 5: I was man. I was trying to protect my private

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Speaker 5: life from fame. So I wanted to have these two personas.

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Speaker 5: I wanted to have a career, very long career that

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Speaker 5: was as famous as Michael Jackson. And yet I foolishly

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Speaker 5: thought I could also have this private life and probably

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Speaker 5: should have known. I asked, you know, my wife to

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Speaker 5: marry me that because we bonded over hair color and

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Speaker 5: just reference. Hers was aubig Yeah, fabulous that we were

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Speaker 5: we Will and Grace before the TV show existed. You know,

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Speaker 5: we were best best friends, and I think she kept

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Speaker 5: me innocent and she kept me in this kind of

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Speaker 5: place where I wasn't ready to accept who I was.

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Speaker 5: And no, one day I'll talk about it. I'm writing

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Speaker 5: a book now about next year I get to talk

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Speaker 5: about this. I grew up in a culture where there

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Speaker 5: was just so much internalized shame. It wasn't even possible

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Speaker 5: for me to even think that. I didn't think I

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Speaker 5: knew any gay people, didn't even think Lance was gay.

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Speaker 5: My worldview was so tiny, so that when I was

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Speaker 5: traveling the world and we meet other artists, we realized

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Speaker 5: that just like race, just like gender, sexuality is such

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Speaker 5: a spectrum, and that I struggled finding that little place

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Speaker 5: for me. That when I eventually did come out, I

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Speaker 5: told everyone. I told the president of the label, who

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Speaker 5: was a very scary man, and he had virtually destroyed

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Speaker 5: George Michael's career for coming out. Really, and you know

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Speaker 5: what happened to me was all of a sudden, everyone

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Speaker 5: started kissing my cheek, and everyone started telling me like

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Speaker 5: treating me like I was a woman, and started this

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Speaker 5: process that I think is a sort of a version

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Speaker 5: of misogyny that happens to gay men in our business.

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Speaker 5: We become these harmless, non sexual, non threatening this is

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Speaker 5: the only way we know how to market. And it

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Speaker 5: was as though that was sort of the beginning of

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Speaker 5: the end of my career. It was the It was

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Speaker 5: the second Savage Garden record affirmation. Didn't matter that the

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Speaker 5: band was splitting up. I had come out and everyone

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Speaker 5: at the label was dealing with this internal fallout, which

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Speaker 5: was Ricky Martin. And listen some of the conversations and

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Speaker 5: the things that I heard about Ricky Martin, about the

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Speaker 5: people that supposedly loved him, would horrify you. It was horrific.

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Speaker 5: And so I was watching that stuff just thinking, if

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Speaker 5: this is how you speak about someone when they're not

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Speaker 5: in the room, and you're letting me hear this, what

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Speaker 5: are you going to do to my solo career? What

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Speaker 5: are you going to do? Well? I found out they

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Speaker 5: buried me, you know, So that was the struggle for me.

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Speaker 5: It wasn't you know, I was ready, Like I started

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Speaker 5: using the word him and he in my songs. My

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Speaker 5: first single, Insatiable, I want to taste every drop. I mean,

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Speaker 5: come on, yeah, I'm talking about you know what I'm

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Speaker 5: talking about.

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Speaker 1: Wait listen.

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Speaker 6: What orange I'm saying.

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Speaker 5: Turn the lights down low, take it off, let me

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Speaker 5: show my love you insatiable. And I can't remember the

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Speaker 5: rest of my lyrics because I'm a fifty one year

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Speaker 5: old game man, But essentially, all.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's weird because I never really get to talk

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Speaker 1: about that side of the career because yes, when you know,

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Speaker 1: everyone assumed I was straight when I was a teenager

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Speaker 1: and in this group, and then you know, I want

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Speaker 1: a big band in the world. So I did get

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Speaker 1: to hear what everyone said about gay people without them

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Speaker 1: knowing that I'm gay. So and that definitely keeps you

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Speaker 1: more in the closet because you're like crop like, I mean,

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Speaker 1: they they hate they will hate me. They will absolutely

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Speaker 1: hate me if I ever tell them that I'm gay.

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Speaker 1: So you just you dig back deeper and deeper every

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Speaker 1: time that you hear the joke. Er, especially the music

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Speaker 1: industry is still so homophobic. I mean, I know film industry,

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Speaker 1: you know, has gotten better and all that, but something

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Speaker 1: about the record industry is just so archaic with their

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Speaker 1: thoughts on sexuality.

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Speaker 5: Because I'm so sort of outside of the box in

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Speaker 5: that regard. Like, honestly, the commercial success that I was

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Speaker 5: lucky enough to participate in, it's a blessing to me.

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Speaker 5: Like I you know, when I first started off, you know, yes,

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Speaker 5: I did want to be famous, and I was trying

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Speaker 5: to fix something in me that was deeply proficient, you know,

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Speaker 5: and like every you know, like if you talk to Madonna,

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Speaker 5: you know, Madonna was missing a mother and so she

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Speaker 5: needed the whole world to mock with her. Right My

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Speaker 5: thing was a father issue, you know. But as soon

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Speaker 5: as I received the attention, I got over that very quickly,

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Speaker 5: and I'm grateful for that. And I knew that it

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Speaker 5: wasn't going to last, that the fame wasn't going to last,

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Speaker 5: but me being a singer, me being an artist, that

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Speaker 5: was the thing that I really wanted to hold on

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Speaker 5: to it and retain. So I'm grateful that I'm not cynical.

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Speaker 5: I've never been someone that's like I'd have been a contenduct,

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Speaker 5: you know, like I've always just continued on. I make

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Speaker 5: my strange, weird records. Some of them work, some of

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Speaker 5: them don't. But the whole gay experience, I can't lie

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Speaker 5: and say that that wasn't like an X against me

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Speaker 5: because our generation, we couldn't just arrive and looking even

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Speaker 5: little naz X. When I think about Little Nasax, I mean,

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Speaker 5: if you look at his and so if you look

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Speaker 5: at how difficult that is to be an African American

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Speaker 5: and be queer. I went and saw Beyonce recently and

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Speaker 5: that a lot of people don't realize how inspired she

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Speaker 5: was by her uncle who was gay, and that is

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Speaker 5: to bring like club culture and quick culture to that audience.

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Speaker 5: It's it moves me like it really really because I

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Speaker 5: know how brave that is and how hard it is,

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Speaker 5: and so many other cultures that aren't. Just you know,

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Speaker 5: I have so much privilege being a straight white guy.

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Speaker 5: I can pass anywhere I want, I can turn my

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Speaker 5: sex on or off, and so many other cultures you

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Speaker 5: just can't do that. Well's smallest violent for me, but

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Speaker 5: still it's odd.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: But and but that experience, I mean, it was on

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Speaker 4: a much larger scale. It's kind of it's the same

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Speaker 4: experience most gay people go through just in their own life.

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Speaker 4: You know that it's the same. It's the same thing yours.

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Speaker 4: Both of you were just on a much massive, more scale.

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Speaker 4: And a business that literally penalized you for.

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Speaker 1: Doing exactly And for me, you know, I always felt

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Speaker 1: like I was lucky that I started my career so

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Speaker 1: early and found fame as a teenager because then and

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Speaker 1: as soon as I was, you know, finishing up puberty

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Speaker 1: and everyone started to date people, that's when I got

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Speaker 1: it in sync. And because of that, I was able to

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Speaker 1: hide it a lot longer because I had so many

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Speaker 1: great excuses of not to date a girl or to

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Speaker 1: you know, you could just kind of mix up of like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: last night in London, I totally about a girl and

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Speaker 1: we took her back to the hotel and yeah, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's no one would know, and there was no cell

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Speaker 1: phones or anything like that, so you could easily create

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Speaker 1: the narrative that you wanted to easily.

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Speaker 5: I couldn't imagine growing up being a young person with

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Speaker 5: fame today and the scrutiny of every moment, you know,

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Speaker 5: and I, you know, there was a lot of the

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Speaker 5: I really cherish the fact that I got to come

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Speaker 5: out really in between albums. I lived in San Francisco,

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Speaker 5: and I laugh about this. I spent so many years

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Speaker 5: like looking across the foggy Bay like going, is he

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Speaker 5: out there? So I go out bars and I'm doing

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Speaker 5: and that, like I'm such a romantic.

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Speaker 6: You know.

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Speaker 5: My poor mother came to this me once from Australia

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Speaker 5: and this one night I got a number and I

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Speaker 5: made the mistake of telling my mother I got a

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Speaker 5: phone number. I was like, Ma, I got a phone number, MA,

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Speaker 5: And she was like, did he call? It was like

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Speaker 5: three am. No. No. Then every for the next two

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Speaker 5: weeks she'd go, did he call? And I go, oh, ma,

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Speaker 5: but like two weeks I got ghosted. We didn't know

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Speaker 5: what that was back then. But you know, you know what, Ma,

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Speaker 5: he didn't call every day that you ask me if

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Speaker 5: he calls. It feels terrible inside because he's never gonna call. Never,

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Speaker 5: because I'm idiots monster.

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Speaker 1: Okay, It's like it's like he's a ghost. I created

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Speaker 1: this thing you called ghosting. Ghost Yeah, invented the word ghosted, y'all.

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Speaker 6: Wow, yeah, you heard it here.

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Speaker 5: First love, did you make him up?

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Speaker 1: Was your whole family?

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Speaker 2: Uh?

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Speaker 1: Did they accept you immediately when you came your friends

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Speaker 1: and family?

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Speaker 5: Hmmm mmm?

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: But I mean, look, my mother from the second I

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Speaker 5: was born accepted me. I was the youngest of three kids,

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Speaker 5: and I was unique. I was you know, she made

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Speaker 5: me a wonder woman costume. She called it a wonder

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Speaker 5: man costume because but she used I don't know what

400
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Speaker 5: we call him in the US, but she used this

401
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Speaker 5: fabric paint to paint stars on my blue shorts instead

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Speaker 5: of a skirt. She made a tank top like this actually,

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Speaker 5: and it had a yellow falcon on it. And we'd

404
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Speaker 5: use toilet roll spray paint of gold, you know, very

405
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Speaker 5: very like. She's very gentle, and yet when I came out,

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Speaker 5: she was like, I had no idea. I'm like, I

407
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Speaker 5: was blow drying your frosted hair. She had, like, I

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Speaker 5: was blow drying your hair. There're outfits. I was in

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Speaker 5: the dressing rooms with you. You know, acis just being like,

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Speaker 5: m maybe the lavender.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I didn't know that was me, you know.

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Speaker 1: I mean I asked my mom to I'm like, did

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Speaker 1: you have any clue? Because I mean I look back

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Speaker 1: and I see them like, well, I mean, come on,

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Speaker 1: I wanted my little pony at you know, six years old,

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Speaker 1: that kind of stuff. And my Mom's like, well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: looking back, I now see things, but like I just

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Speaker 1: I never it just never dawned on me in the

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Speaker 1: moment that you could have been gay. But it's so

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Speaker 1: funny how they'll just completely just not see that part

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Speaker 1: of you.

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Speaker 5: Some of us are really lucky to have. And I

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Speaker 5: mean some of us because I so so many more

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Speaker 5: of my friends had really difficult relationships with their parents. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: but those mother son relationships I think are so wonderful.

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Speaker 5: You know, where you're there's this connection, like I call it,

427
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Speaker 5: like an invisible tether that I have to my mother.

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Speaker 5: I always didn't. I think it's because subconsciously. And the

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Speaker 5: books on this book called the Velvet Rage, it's like I.

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Speaker 1: Just heard about that. Oh yeah, oh no, that's Tad's

431
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Speaker 1: new tour is called Velvet Rage.

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Speaker 6: Still in that. No, The Velvet Reads is a very

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Speaker 6: famous book.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a really important text that gay men should

435
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Speaker 5: read because it is about this thing that happened to

436
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Speaker 5: a certain generation where we were. We were othered even

437
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Speaker 5: by our parents. Our parents knew there was something wrong

438
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Speaker 5: with us, and they overcompensated.

439
00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:29,560
Speaker 6: So some they.

440
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:38,119
Speaker 5: Protected us and some didn't know consciously, but they knew

441
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:41,600
Speaker 5: there's something different about this one, and they start to

442
00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:46,359
Speaker 5: sever a tie between us and that anxiety that some

443
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:49,760
Speaker 5: of us felt between our fathers was really a child

444
00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:54,440
Speaker 5: knowing their father is leaving us and wanted to hold

445
00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:58,720
Speaker 5: on and just it's a very very complicated thing because

446
00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:02,080
Speaker 5: you know, we are different. We were different, and our

447
00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:04,320
Speaker 5: parents didn't really relate to that.

448
00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:06,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, normally did we feel different. But we also

449
00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:10,520
Speaker 1: weren't given permission to be ourselves, you know, until someone,

450
00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:13,080
Speaker 1: you know, basically that gives you permission to be you know,

451
00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:14,760
Speaker 1: like you can be gay. Oh I can be gay.

452
00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:17,440
Speaker 1: Oh crap, I didn't. I didn't know that, And you're

453
00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:21,119
Speaker 1: just suppressing everything your whole entire life until you realize that,

454
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:23,600
Speaker 1: Oh wait, I can't do this and you and you'll

455
00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:25,400
Speaker 1: let me do that. That's great.

456
00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:28,920
Speaker 5: I feel like we can't really answer that question. That's

457
00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:32,240
Speaker 5: because we were fam I think being famous lets you

458
00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:35,879
Speaker 5: by that point. You know, I was absolutely providing for

459
00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:38,639
Speaker 5: my family. I was as you might relate, you know,

460
00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:40,919
Speaker 5: I was someone that was seen as a golden child,

461
00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:44,200
Speaker 5: not in any accusatory way in my family. I adore

462
00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:46,639
Speaker 5: my family. And I think if you're famous and you

463
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:49,879
Speaker 5: don't buy a house for your family, if you can

464
00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:52,640
Speaker 5: afford to do that, you're probably a crappy person because

465
00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:55,440
Speaker 5: of you being famous and getting a lot of money

466
00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:57,800
Speaker 5: is a bit like winning lottery and it's a moral

467
00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:04,000
Speaker 5: So yes, I did those things. So how could the

468
00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:06,040
Speaker 5: people that love me then look at me and think

469
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:08,200
Speaker 5: of me as a bad person? Because I was also

470
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:11,760
Speaker 5: being a really generous person and a kind person in

471
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:15,120
Speaker 5: a bubble? Were I just a preschool teacher like I

472
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:17,760
Speaker 5: was supposed to be, But they have been as accepting.

473
00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:21,399
Speaker 5: I don't know my core, yes, but the rest of

474
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:22,720
Speaker 5: my community, I don't know.

475
00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:25,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's true, it's interesting, and yeah, like you said,

476
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:27,680
Speaker 1: we'll never know. Well, I can't wait to read that

477
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:30,359
Speaker 1: book though, because I just love the psychology behind any

478
00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:33,000
Speaker 1: of that. So yeah, I think it's going to obviously

479
00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:33,440
Speaker 1: relate to me.

480
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:36,960
Speaker 4: And along those lines, I've always said, because you know,

481
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:39,480
Speaker 4: lances from Mississippi, which you know, it's great, it's a

482
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:43,040
Speaker 4: you know, you know, there's a lot of good things

483
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:46,040
Speaker 4: about Missiby, but there's a lot of bad things, and

484
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:50,240
Speaker 4: we've always been treated amazingly whenever we go back. But

485
00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:53,360
Speaker 4: I always have said, like, people care more that you're

486
00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:56,280
Speaker 4: famous than that you're gay, So they overlook the gay

487
00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:58,600
Speaker 4: stuff because they're like, oh, my god, it's celebrity, so

488
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:00,679
Speaker 4: they can pushed all that aside. If you were just

489
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:03,760
Speaker 4: the postman coming by with a rainbow flag, they may

490
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:06,640
Speaker 4: not be so kind to you, right if you've seen.

491
00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:07,119
Speaker 1: Them, that's true.

492
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:11,359
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's just privileged. I think it's always important to

493
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:13,960
Speaker 5: check that, you know. I think, like I said before,

494
00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:17,359
Speaker 5: just passing, you know, I can choose whether I come

495
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:20,639
Speaker 5: out or not every single day. You know, I'm not

496
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:23,200
Speaker 5: someone that gets recognized in the streets, so I don't

497
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:27,760
Speaker 5: really have the celebrity thing, but I definitely have the

498
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:31,000
Speaker 5: ability to. And if you think about it, it's like

499
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:33,640
Speaker 5: every time you buy a bunch of flowers, people will

500
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:34,360
Speaker 5: make an assumption.

501
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 2: Someone will you.

502
00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:38,200
Speaker 5: I've had people say who's the lucky girl?

503
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:39,880
Speaker 6: Oh yeah all the time.

504
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 4: Or when I get a haircut, if I go to

505
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:43,560
Speaker 4: a new place and they see a ring on my finger,

506
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:48,240
Speaker 4: they're like, oh, like, who's when I'm married to your wife,

507
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:50,280
Speaker 4: and it's always you have to come out over and

508
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:51,080
Speaker 4: over and over again.

509
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:54,920
Speaker 5: But it's making that decision. Who do you reveal this exactly?

510
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:57,359
Speaker 4: And sometimes I just go along with it and pretend

511
00:25:57,400 --> 00:25:59,280
Speaker 4: I'm married to a wife because I don't feel comfortable

512
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:01,199
Speaker 4: with the person that I'm they don't know, like in

513
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:03,320
Speaker 4: a sense, they might not be so kind, and I

514
00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:04,760
Speaker 4: don't want to have to go through that, so I

515
00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:05,720
Speaker 4: just go along with it.

516
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:08,120
Speaker 6: And it's something you still do even when we're comfortable.

517
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:11,879
Speaker 5: Yeah, there are certain places in the world, and I

518
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:16,240
Speaker 5: think I try to have compassion for that because it's

519
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:18,360
Speaker 5: a little bit like my my analogy. When I first

520
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,160
Speaker 5: moved to New York. I tell people it's like, oh

521
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:23,920
Speaker 5: my god, it's so embarrassing. I went from Brisbane, Australia

522
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:30,640
Speaker 5: to New York and I just decided that New york

523
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:33,760
Speaker 5: Is weren't very friendly. So I would take offense to that.

524
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:36,600
Speaker 5: So I'd go into a badega or something and I'd

525
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:39,600
Speaker 5: pay and then there'd be nothing said, and I'd go,

526
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:50,399
Speaker 5: you're for about And then my friend mRNA Soarez, she

527
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:55,320
Speaker 5: love this name check. He was just like, you know,

528
00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:59,639
Speaker 5: you can't change the city. Yeah, Like you're gonna exhaust

529
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:03,520
Speaker 5: yourself and you're just making yourself miserable. And it's one

530
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:05,919
Speaker 5: of those things, you know, where sometimes you have to

531
00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:10,439
Speaker 5: just look at your environment. And I might get some

532
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:14,240
Speaker 5: criticism for saying this, but you know, I have compassion.

533
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:20,240
Speaker 5: I think if someone's not if there an acceptance of

534
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:25,400
Speaker 5: me comes from a place that's conservative or religious, or

535
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:28,840
Speaker 5: from a place that doesn't come from hatred, doesn't come

536
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:31,719
Speaker 5: from bigotry, it comes from say, what I would call

537
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:36,640
Speaker 5: legentle ignorance, which is a lack of exposure. I have compassion.

538
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:37,760
Speaker 1: You don't know what you don't know?

539
00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:41,119
Speaker 5: Yeah, And I'm not one of those people that I

540
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:43,840
Speaker 5: just want to walk in and just like burst a

541
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:45,440
Speaker 5: balloon with rainbow colors and be.

542
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:50,760
Speaker 6: Like yeah me, you know, like I'm just.

543
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:55,879
Speaker 5: I don't id that confrontation. I would rather just be

544
00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 5: someone who is in their life that they happen to

545
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:05,200
Speaker 5: be like, are you gay? And that blows the moment, yeah, events,

546
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:08,160
Speaker 5: and that makes them have to rethink all of their.

547
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:11,760
Speaker 1: You know, yeah, yeah, that's what I always call it.

548
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:14,840
Speaker 1: Also gay. You know, like I'm also gay. You know,

549
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:16,639
Speaker 1: it's just like that's not what I lead with, but

550
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:19,240
Speaker 1: it's like, yes, but I'm also gay. It's one part

551
00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 1: of also blonde, and I'm also a way guy, and

552
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 1: I'm also a musician. It's just just one of my

553
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:25,600
Speaker 1: also's now.

554
00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:31,120
Speaker 5: But we haven't talking about it as well, like us, Yeah,

555
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 5: what cost talking about being gay.

556
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:36,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that, especially when I came out my friends,

557
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 1: uh and even like the instinct guys and everyone you know,

558
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 1: they I think they overcompensate a little bit of wanting

559
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:44,920
Speaker 1: to accept you and make you try to feel comfortable.

560
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:47,800
Speaker 1: So then but then they go into the stereotypical things.

561
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:51,760
Speaker 1: There's always joking with you on the most stereotypical gay things.

562
00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:54,280
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, no, I don't like that, and know

563
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 1: that's not how I am, but sure, let's make a

564
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:57,160
Speaker 1: joke about it.

565
00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:00,520
Speaker 6: I know, like, oh, we're getting hot talks for lungs. Yeah,

566
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:05,000
Speaker 6: support you. It was like, okay, calm down, I'm allowed.

567
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:06,760
Speaker 5: To say this because my mom cracks up. But when

568
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:09,520
Speaker 5: I first came out, my mom would just be she'd

569
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:15,280
Speaker 5: be like reading a magazine, she go outon John's genius.

570
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 5: Isn't he He's good? Isn't he music?

571
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:23,800
Speaker 6: Good music?

572
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:27,520
Speaker 5: I had to normalize and fine gay people in culture

573
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 5: that she was okay with it, which like I can

574
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 5: be the only gay only again in your life. Mom.

575
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:41,680
Speaker 1: All right, So we've been doing a deep dive with

576
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:44,680
Speaker 1: our guests starting from the very beginning. Now, you were

577
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 1: born Were you born in Brisbane?

578
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:47,000
Speaker 5: Yeah?

579
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:50,080
Speaker 1: Okay, so you're born in Brisbane? What was What was

580
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 1: it like being born there? What was school like for you?

581
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:56,000
Speaker 1: Did you always know that you wanted to go on

582
00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:57,800
Speaker 1: to music, even at an early age.

583
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 5: Yes, So being there, I lovingly say this, I really

584
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 5: thought it was just an accident of God. I thought,

585
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:09,280
Speaker 5: I mean, look, you probably can't see I'm so pale

586
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:15,560
Speaker 5: and a nation of surfers and you know, an indigenous

587
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:20,240
Speaker 5: land mass that was stolen. I will acknowledge that nation

588
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:23,760
Speaker 5: is sort of like an African terrain because it is

589
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:28,160
Speaker 5: beautifully indigenous and it's very rough, like a climate to

590
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:28,440
Speaker 5: live in.

591
00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 6: And I was this.

592
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:36,960
Speaker 5: Delicate, sort of irish blonde, sort of blue eyed dandelion

593
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 5: that hated this arm still does and I would just

594
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:44,120
Speaker 5: be like, God, why did you curse me with this weather?

595
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:47,920
Speaker 5: Number one? And I used to think that the world

596
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:51,080
Speaker 5: was like a little movie about me and that I

597
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:53,480
Speaker 5: don't know, I just always thought that I would be famous.

598
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:56,719
Speaker 5: But maybe it's a trauma response because we can laugh

599
00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:58,520
Speaker 5: about this. Don't worry. I'm cool about it. But I

600
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:04,560
Speaker 5: had a very traumatic childhood. It's extremely violent, so growing

601
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:08,120
Speaker 5: up in the shining, but it activated my imagination. So

602
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:12,080
Speaker 5: from a very very young age, I really did believe

603
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:16,640
Speaker 5: in Star Wars mythology. I believed that there was an

604
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 5: adventure for me somewhere else. So by the time that

605
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:25,480
Speaker 5: music came, you know, listening to Madonna, listening to Michael Jackson.

606
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:28,640
Speaker 5: The moment that I decided to become a pop star

607
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:31,680
Speaker 5: was in nineteen eighty seven. He came to my hometown.

608
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:37,880
Speaker 5: He was supposed to perform at a stadium, but my country,

609
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:40,800
Speaker 5: it was the only country in the entire world tour.

610
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:44,240
Speaker 5: He was at the most famous star in the whole world.

611
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:48,520
Speaker 5: He couldn't really sell tickets because this rumor went out

612
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 5: that he was going to perform behind a bubble because

613
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 5: he was afraid of the germs leaved it. So we're like, Oh,

614
00:31:55,880 --> 00:32:00,000
Speaker 5: I range at Michael Jackson and like what he's done

615
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 5: to his nose and he's a bit feminine. But to me,

616
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:06,640
Speaker 5: he was like, oh, he's androgynous and he's strange. And

617
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 5: I was being bullied at school and whatever. So I

618
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:12,960
Speaker 5: went to that bad tour with this field ticket. It

619
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:18,040
Speaker 5: got exchanged for a front row seat in an arena. Wow,

620
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:24,479
Speaker 5: So Michael front row and I just watched him as

621
00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:28,040
Speaker 5: a student and I just remember, and I still get

622
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:30,880
Speaker 5: this feeling and every time before I go to get

623
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:36,040
Speaker 5: on stage, that feeling that he made. Everyone felt this

624
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:39,720
Speaker 5: electricity in the air, that you could feel the Adams

625
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 5: moving And I thought, I want to do that one day.

626
00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 5: And I knew from a very young age, I thought

627
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:49,320
Speaker 5: everyone wanted to do it, and I got talked out

628
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:54,240
Speaker 5: of it from every possible angle, every possible teacher mentor

629
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:58,280
Speaker 5: there's one music teacher and one boss at a record

630
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:00,320
Speaker 5: store that I worked in that was encouraging to me.

631
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:04,320
Speaker 5: But most people said you'll never make it. But I

632
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:07,880
Speaker 5: knew that I would and did. Yeah, Yeah, that's great.

633
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:11,160
Speaker 1: It's I love that our generation had so many great

634
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 1: examples to encourage us to go it because Michael did

635
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:16,720
Speaker 1: that for me, Madonna did that for me, Janet Jackson

636
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:19,560
Speaker 1: did that for me. Even Garth Brooks and Reba McIntyre,

637
00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:22,600
Speaker 1: like watching their shows in the eighties and nineties is

638
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:25,239
Speaker 1: what made me want to do that. I want to

639
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:28,120
Speaker 1: be on that stage. And I feel like this generation

640
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:31,320
Speaker 1: doesn't have quite as many to inspire them. I mean,

641
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:33,720
Speaker 1: of course you have Beyonce, of course you have Taylor Swift,

642
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:36,600
Speaker 1: but there's you know, there's very few of those that

643
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:41,200
Speaker 1: are just doing those insane performances where it just inspires

644
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:43,080
Speaker 1: that kid in the front row and be like, oh

645
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:45,360
Speaker 1: my gosh, what is this. I need to do this,

646
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 1: And it's a.

647
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:50,560
Speaker 5: Feeling in the air and it's to me. I still

648
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:54,480
Speaker 5: get it before most most decent performers, where part of

649
00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:56,680
Speaker 5: it is just the shit volume of the PA system.

650
00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:59,240
Speaker 5: Part of it is that the group experience, of the

651
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:03,240
Speaker 5: expectation what's about. But it's a feeling like I want

652
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:09,640
Speaker 5: to cry with joy, and I think I just feel

653
00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:11,920
Speaker 5: so lucky that I get to do that for a living.

654
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:17,160
Speaker 5: That I get to because life is hard. It's fads,

655
00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:22,320
Speaker 5: you know, and we get to spend ninety minutes taking

656
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:25,840
Speaker 5: people away and just changing their lives for a moment.

657
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:28,960
Speaker 5: And I guess I just remembered what that meant to

658
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:31,120
Speaker 5: me as a child. My life was so so hard,

659
00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:37,399
Speaker 5: but in those moments, I was transported and I still

660
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:39,760
Speaker 5: strive for that. That's kind of what I strove for

661
00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:43,360
Speaker 5: when I write a song, when I'm singing whatever, I

662
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:48,520
Speaker 5: look for someone in the audience who needs that attention,

663
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:52,360
Speaker 5: not the person who's thirsty. I look for the person

664
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 5: who is a little bit broken like I was, and

665
00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:01,200
Speaker 5: I'll always find them and I just I know that

666
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:03,120
Speaker 5: that was so Australian.

667
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:04,439
Speaker 1: No, you can.

668
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:07,120
Speaker 6: We love a good nor.

669
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:15,960
Speaker 5: Do I know that I've done my job. If maybe

670
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:17,760
Speaker 5: I've made a connection.

671
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:20,480
Speaker 1: That's great. Well, when life does get hard, because you know,

672
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:24,360
Speaker 1: you've talked about your mental health and how suppressing yourself,

673
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:27,000
Speaker 1: you know it takes a chunk out of your mental

674
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:30,600
Speaker 1: health bigly. But when life is getting hard and it

675
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:34,360
Speaker 1: feels harder for you, what do you do personally to

676
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:36,319
Speaker 1: kind of get over that and get out of your

677
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:37,920
Speaker 1: head everything?

678
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:41,879
Speaker 5: So I talk very openly about mental health. I mean,

679
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:49,960
Speaker 5: I'm at the moment, I'm very specifically and consciously working

680
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:54,120
Speaker 5: on my childhood trauma because writing this book, at first

681
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:56,839
Speaker 5: it was not fun because I would talk about these

682
00:35:56,880 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 5: experiences that happened to me as a child with violence,

683
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:02,839
Speaker 5: and I did really have anywhere to go. You know,

684
00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:07,279
Speaker 5: some of my friends are actors, and you know they've

685
00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:11,400
Speaker 5: had training with maybe recall memory or summoning an experience

686
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 5: up and then they can neatly put that down. But

687
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:17,320
Speaker 5: you know, like as singers, we just inhabit a moment,

688
00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:19,759
Speaker 5: we feel it in our body and then we move

689
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 5: on whereas it for me, I've had twenty five years

690
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:30,800
Speaker 5: of being openly someone that has major depressive disorder, and

691
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:33,840
Speaker 5: I think now the official diagnosis for me is just

692
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 5: that I have complex post traumatic stress disorder, which was

693
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:44,120
Speaker 5: repeated exposure to violence and witnessing violence when I was

694
00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:47,640
Speaker 5: a child, And this particular treatment I'm doing at the

695
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:51,680
Speaker 5: moment is called EMDR where based on rapid eye movement.

696
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:55,880
Speaker 5: And I just wanted to sort it out because I

697
00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:59,640
Speaker 5: want to be your father one day, you know. I

698
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:07,400
Speaker 5: want to be free of some of the triggers that

699
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:09,960
Speaker 5: will sneak up on me in my life. I could

700
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:14,920
Speaker 5: be I can be in a department store with someone

701
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:18,680
Speaker 5: I love and they might go off to another part

702
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:22,440
Speaker 5: of the store like any normal person would. But my

703
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:27,319
Speaker 5: reaction is I feel panic inside as a part of

704
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:30,440
Speaker 5: me remembers being lost as a child.

705
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:33,120
Speaker 1: Or being a band abandoned. Yeah, yeah, oh my god.

706
00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:35,239
Speaker 1: How much of this is going to be in your

707
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:38,960
Speaker 1: memoir and down of it? And I'm sure that it's

708
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:41,239
Speaker 1: cathartic at this point after writing about that.

709
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:44,520
Speaker 5: Yeah, and again, like with songs and music, like I

710
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:48,279
Speaker 5: had no interest in writing like a celebrity memoir. I mean, yeah,

711
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:50,319
Speaker 5: I was in a pop band and it broke up,

712
00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:52,800
Speaker 5: and that was a bit juicy. But I was grateful

713
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:57,960
Speaker 5: that I was offered a publishing deal from Penguin because

714
00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:03,480
Speaker 5: I wrote an article for the Independent newspaper in the

715
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:06,400
Speaker 5: UK about this about my depression, and I had a

716
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:09,880
Speaker 5: couple of publishers just say we want to read that book.

717
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:11,960
Speaker 5: So that's important to me. It's important to me that

718
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:18,239
Speaker 5: people know that well, first of all, that suicide is

719
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:21,239
Speaker 5: just never an option, you know, Like I talked to

720
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:24,720
Speaker 5: my audience all the time that we have this pact,

721
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:27,480
Speaker 5: which is that we just choose to stay. I have

722
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:31,239
Speaker 5: a lyric on my most recent record. There's a song

723
00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:34,920
Speaker 5: called Poisoned Blood where I talk about the fact and

724
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:37,520
Speaker 5: this is a trigger warning if anyone's listening that has

725
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:40,200
Speaker 5: dealt with depression or suicide. I'm going to talk about

726
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:44,359
Speaker 5: this in my family. But you know, I've had more

727
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:48,440
Speaker 5: than a few people in my actual, you know, immediate

728
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:52,760
Speaker 5: family who have committed suicide, and I just I've seen

729
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:55,560
Speaker 5: the after effects of that and the aftermath of that,

730
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:59,680
Speaker 5: and I just decided that would never be me. I

731
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:02,640
Speaker 5: never wanted that, not because there's anything special or strong

732
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:05,279
Speaker 5: about me, but just because I would speak about it,

733
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:10,759
Speaker 5: and there's so much stigma around mental health. And that's

734
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:12,600
Speaker 5: really the main thing I wanted to express in my

735
00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:17,799
Speaker 5: book was I actually thrive with my mental illness. I

736
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:21,880
Speaker 5: thrive being gay, and I thrive having mental illness because

737
00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:25,440
Speaker 5: I express it, I talk about it, I seek help,

738
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:28,320
Speaker 5: and and I fabilize it.

739
00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:30,600
Speaker 1: And it's so nice that you're able to recognize that,

740
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:33,279
Speaker 1: because I think majority of us don't. They don't even

741
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:35,880
Speaker 1: know what to look forward that I'm even having a problem.

742
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:38,400
Speaker 1: You know, I've dealt with depression, but it took me

743
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:41,960
Speaker 1: years to figure out what that was. I'm like, oh,

744
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:44,319
Speaker 1: that's what everyone talks about, and that's what I've been

745
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:45,200
Speaker 1: feeling for years.

746
00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:45,480
Speaker 2: Now.

747
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:48,640
Speaker 1: I can depressed, I guess. But it's it's funny how

748
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:51,319
Speaker 1: you just talk yourself out of getting help, or you know,

749
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:54,480
Speaker 1: self diagnose yourself or you know, I don't know, I'm

750
00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:56,719
Speaker 1: being too dramatic. There's all these things that you put

751
00:39:56,719 --> 00:39:59,400
Speaker 1: through your brain that you know stop you from actually

752
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:00,560
Speaker 1: getting the help.

753
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:03,080
Speaker 5: And yet you wouldn't do that if, say, your A

754
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:04,800
Speaker 5: one C one was out of balance.

755
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:06,160
Speaker 2: Sorry exactly.

756
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:10,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's really no different to that when you physically

757
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:12,160
Speaker 5: see things and your blood work and all that, like

758
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:12,960
Speaker 5: you can't well.

759
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:15,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, And there's also a big thing with just the

760
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:19,759
Speaker 4: current culture. There's like this especially this misogynistic kind of

761
00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:23,000
Speaker 4: you know, purveying culture that if you care about your

762
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:27,560
Speaker 4: mental health somehow you're a weaker person. Whereas it's just

763
00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:29,879
Speaker 4: another part of your body like everything else, like you said,

764
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:32,000
Speaker 4: like your A and C, like your cholesterol. If you

765
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:34,440
Speaker 4: have an unwell mind, if you're depressed, well, you know what,

766
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:35,120
Speaker 4: that's kind of.

767
00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:36,920
Speaker 6: Controlling your entire.

768
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:42,919
Speaker 4: It makes you a much stronger friend, more empathetic towards others.

769
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:45,080
Speaker 4: It really creates makes you a whole person, and so

770
00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:48,360
Speaker 4: and so many people are just shamed for trying to

771
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:51,359
Speaker 4: help that part of your body when it is a

772
00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:54,560
Speaker 4: huge part of yourself. It's you, it's your entire well being.

773
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:57,040
Speaker 5: Yeah. And also it's it's actually when you get treatment,

774
00:40:57,080 --> 00:40:59,120
Speaker 5: it's it's the relief is really quick.

775
00:40:59,160 --> 00:40:59,720
Speaker 6: It's huge.

776
00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:03,759
Speaker 5: Kind of I have I don't believe in regrets, but

777
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:07,920
Speaker 5: I definitely have some regret over the fact that I

778
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:11,239
Speaker 5: really suffered for years just thinking I can kind of

779
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:14,719
Speaker 5: handle this or whatever. And it's like, dude, just if

780
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:16,919
Speaker 5: there's some medication you can take. I remember a friend

781
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:19,399
Speaker 5: said to me, once you know, you know, maybe there

782
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:21,799
Speaker 5: is some medication you can take daily that would just

783
00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:24,759
Speaker 5: make you want to be here, and you know what

784
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:28,080
Speaker 5: there was. Then one day, I remember waking up just

785
00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:31,319
Speaker 5: feeling like I still had all of my problems, but

786
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:35,160
Speaker 5: they were just in another room and about them if

787
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:38,520
Speaker 5: I wanted to, but they didn't overwhelm me. And then

788
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:39,920
Speaker 5: I just got on with the rest of my life.

789
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:42,800
Speaker 5: And I just that's the message, you know, that I

790
00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:45,600
Speaker 5: always try to convey to anyone, because there's an amazing

791
00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:49,080
Speaker 5: U two lyric when Michael Hutchins died. Bono wrote this

792
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:50,920
Speaker 5: about Michael Hutchins, and he said, you know, you just

793
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:54,839
Speaker 5: got stuck in a moment that you couldn't get out of, and.

794
00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:57,200
Speaker 1: They're just yeah, there.

795
00:41:57,280 --> 00:42:01,880
Speaker 5: And I think when you know, when there's a tragedy

796
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:04,960
Speaker 5: involved which results in like an end of a life,

797
00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:08,000
Speaker 5: it is a tragedy because life is so so precious,

798
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:10,920
Speaker 5: you know. And I can laugh about it because I've

799
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:13,000
Speaker 5: had moments where I've felt a bit dramatic and the

800
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:15,719
Speaker 5: next day I've been like, wow, I'm really glad I

801
00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:18,279
Speaker 5: didn't do anything about this, because this chocolate cake is amazing.

802
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:23,960
Speaker 5: I'd be like, I'm so glad because this cake is

803
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:28,480
Speaker 5: so amazing. That's life, and then you can have tiny

804
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:30,480
Speaker 5: little moments that are worth living for as.

805
00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:33,960
Speaker 1: Well as have you Have you ever written a children's

806
00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:36,719
Speaker 1: book about because I feel like you would read really

807
00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:40,360
Speaker 1: great children's books that really talk about mental health and

808
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:43,040
Speaker 1: a find creative way. I don't know, I just feel

809
00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:43,840
Speaker 1: like you'd be reallyk.

810
00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:47,440
Speaker 5: Of that think that, you know what. I was a

811
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:53,360
Speaker 5: preschool teacher, so I love children, and I just finished

812
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:59,239
Speaker 5: writing a musical which is, you know, loosely based on

813
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:04,000
Speaker 5: my life, but it was it's about yeah, surviving trauma,

814
00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:06,600
Speaker 5: and it's that the protagonist is is a young kid

815
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:09,520
Speaker 5: and written from a child's point of view, because I

816
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:13,799
Speaker 5: do find that very easy to relate to and and

817
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:17,640
Speaker 5: I love talking to children. I have a goddaughter who

818
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:24,239
Speaker 5: is six, and I think because my own childhood was

819
00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:29,080
Speaker 5: so challenging, it's really really easy for me to empathize

820
00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:32,600
Speaker 5: with kids. I think because their emotions are so big,

821
00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:35,160
Speaker 5: and that's the one thing I do remember as a

822
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:36,600
Speaker 5: preschool teacher.

823
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:36,719
Speaker 6: Of just.

824
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:43,279
Speaker 5: Watching children try to navigate these big feelings and just

825
00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:48,640
Speaker 5: help helping them understand that, you know, like sadness is huge,

826
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:51,960
Speaker 5: you know, and sometimes they all the child wants is

827
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:55,000
Speaker 5: for you to acknowledge that and just say you must

828
00:43:55,080 --> 00:44:02,040
Speaker 5: be feeling really sad, huh, like you must need a hug, right, Yeah,

829
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:04,000
Speaker 5: that's how most of us feel.

830
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:07,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the most honest emotions coming from.

831
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:09,920
Speaker 4: I mean, most people just want the acknowledgement that you're

832
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:12,000
Speaker 4: not doing well and want someone to see you and

833
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:13,239
Speaker 4: say that they support.

834
00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:14,600
Speaker 6: You and just that can help.

835
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:17,600
Speaker 4: Would that could honestly change from life to death for

836
00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:19,719
Speaker 4: a single person and people don't realize that.

837
00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:27,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, so that's cool. So people, Yes, children's get that on.

838
00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:44,319
Speaker 1: Put that on the list, on the list. When did

839
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:47,480
Speaker 1: you realize you could pursue music as a possible career.

840
00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:51,040
Speaker 1: Was there a certain teacher that you had that encouraged you? Like,

841
00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:52,040
Speaker 1: what what was that moment?

842
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:56,720
Speaker 5: It was in high school? And high school short story

843
00:44:56,880 --> 00:45:01,359
Speaker 5: was relentlessly bullied, just relentlessly. And then all the kids

844
00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:04,960
Speaker 5: that relentlessly bullied me were too dumb to continue on

845
00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:08,239
Speaker 5: into senior year, so they all just dropped out or

846
00:45:08,239 --> 00:45:12,440
Speaker 5: they became parents real quick. And that story and then

847
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:15,000
Speaker 5: all of a sudden, I wasn't being bullied anymore, and

848
00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:18,319
Speaker 5: I was just being cast in theater productions and when

849
00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:22,440
Speaker 5: I could sing, I was just my whole identity just changed.

850
00:45:22,520 --> 00:45:28,759
Speaker 5: And it was a choir teacher, missus Sales, and she

851
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:31,120
Speaker 5: came to my show in Brisbane on this last tour.

852
00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:37,960
Speaker 5: It was incredibly emotional because she had and well she

853
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:45,440
Speaker 5: was experiencing an early on set memory situation and she

854
00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:53,440
Speaker 5: remembered me, and it was incredibly emotional because she saw me,

855
00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:57,440
Speaker 5: you know, and she put me in a girl's choir,

856
00:45:57,480 --> 00:46:00,800
Speaker 5: which at the time was just like, oh, man, like I'm.

857
00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:02,680
Speaker 1: Already being bullied, make it worse.

858
00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:09,080
Speaker 5: But she saw that potential in me, and what they

859
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:12,120
Speaker 5: did was I'm sure they rigged it. But I won

860
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:18,680
Speaker 5: a scholarship to a theater camp and I couldn't afford it.

861
00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:23,040
Speaker 5: We were really, really poor, and suddenly I was like

862
00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:26,359
Speaker 5: a thirteen year old kid and I was surrounded by

863
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:31,319
Speaker 5: other probably queer kids, to be honest, and that's when

864
00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:32,960
Speaker 5: I kind of knew I was special. I think we

865
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:35,160
Speaker 5: may have a mutual friend in Debbie Gibson.

866
00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:39,680
Speaker 1: Of course, love Happy birthday, Debbie. She just had a birthday.

867
00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:46,680
Speaker 5: And I remember it was electric Youth was out, and

868
00:46:46,719 --> 00:46:49,880
Speaker 5: we did the choreography of Electric Youth, and I just

869
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:53,040
Speaker 5: remember thinking I knew I was really good at it.

870
00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:56,239
Speaker 5: And then we wrote a song and I just was

871
00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:59,200
Speaker 5: really good at it. And it wasn't me being boastful

872
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:01,759
Speaker 5: or anything. I just really felt like I was like

873
00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:05,080
Speaker 5: in this groove of where I was supposed to be

874
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:08,840
Speaker 5: in my life. So I got to see those people

875
00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:13,040
Speaker 5: less well maybe six months ago, you know, in my hometown,

876
00:47:13,160 --> 00:47:16,400
Speaker 5: and just say thank you, like you've changed my life

877
00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:20,200
Speaker 5: so great. So those people I love that.

878
00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:24,600
Speaker 1: Now. I don't know the full story here, but Daniel Jones,

879
00:47:24,680 --> 00:47:28,080
Speaker 1: your partner in Savage Garden, it was you answered an

880
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:31,040
Speaker 1: ad in a music magazine because he was looking for

881
00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:35,280
Speaker 1: a lead vocalist. How old were you when this happened,

882
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:38,120
Speaker 1: and what were you expecting answering this ad?

883
00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:46,120
Speaker 5: Right older? So again to contextualize it, So I sang,

884
00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:48,319
Speaker 5: and then school was ending, and you were expected to

885
00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:50,160
Speaker 5: know what you're supposed to do at the end of school.

886
00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:54,160
Speaker 5: I was sixteen coming out to seventeen when you finished,

887
00:47:54,360 --> 00:47:58,359
Speaker 5: and you're supposed to go to college. And I auditioned

888
00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:00,640
Speaker 5: because I thought you had to play an instrument to

889
00:48:00,680 --> 00:48:02,600
Speaker 5: sing I was a singer and I didn't play an instrument,

890
00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:06,120
Speaker 5: so I would have gone to a conservatorium. And I

891
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:09,600
Speaker 5: did really well at school, so I was all My

892
00:48:09,640 --> 00:48:12,280
Speaker 5: teachers wanted me to go and study law or business

893
00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:15,040
Speaker 5: or something like that. But my music teachers got me

894
00:48:15,239 --> 00:48:19,919
Speaker 5: to audition to into an acting school and they take

895
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:25,000
Speaker 5: fifteen people in the state. And I had a girlfriend

896
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:30,920
Speaker 5: at the time, and I got in and all that

897
00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:33,640
Speaker 5: this is in the entire state. I got a position

898
00:48:34,160 --> 00:48:35,120
Speaker 5: and she.

899
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:35,799
Speaker 3: Didn't get in.

900
00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:37,719
Speaker 5: So I was like, you know what, I'm going to

901
00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:39,720
Speaker 5: give this up because we're going to do this together

902
00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:42,960
Speaker 5: and we'll be together forever. She said, good, So I

903
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:45,560
Speaker 5: gave up my No good.

904
00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:47,200
Speaker 4: For me.

905
00:48:48,120 --> 00:48:48,480
Speaker 1: No.

906
00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:55,399
Speaker 5: So I ended up not being in that place where

907
00:48:55,440 --> 00:48:57,440
Speaker 5: I thought I was supposed to be. So I wasted

908
00:48:58,120 --> 00:49:03,480
Speaker 5: years study journalism and I thought, I'll write for MTV,

909
00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:06,520
Speaker 5: I'll write for Rollstone. That's how I'll get into the business.

910
00:49:06,719 --> 00:49:08,600
Speaker 5: I had a father who was so strict and told

911
00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:10,960
Speaker 5: me I could never be a musician. I was working

912
00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:13,440
Speaker 5: in a music store, working in a video store. Was

913
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:18,640
Speaker 5: around the stuff you buy and Daniel's ad came out.

914
00:49:18,680 --> 00:49:21,000
Speaker 5: So I must have been maybe twenty one at that point,

915
00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:24,840
Speaker 5: and I was nervous as crap. My audition was the

916
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:28,839
Speaker 5: beginning of Little Little Shop of Horrors, the female part,

917
00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:32,480
Speaker 5: you know, I mean insane.

918
00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:33,880
Speaker 6: I couldn't.

919
00:49:35,040 --> 00:49:38,080
Speaker 5: And he and his he lied, which look that's he's

920
00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:40,960
Speaker 5: kind of like a Simon cow is, very very clever.

921
00:49:41,880 --> 00:49:44,000
Speaker 5: But he just saw I was a diamond and the rough.

922
00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:46,160
Speaker 5: And I think the rest of the band that he

923
00:49:46,239 --> 00:49:47,880
Speaker 5: was with, like they lied. They said they had a

924
00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:53,360
Speaker 5: major publishing deal. They didn't what had happened. Chapel had said,

925
00:49:53,880 --> 00:49:56,200
Speaker 5: your songs are okay, but you need a new lead singer.

926
00:49:56,640 --> 00:49:58,600
Speaker 5: His brother was the lead singer.

927
00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:01,319
Speaker 6: He got rid of his got me.

928
00:50:01,640 --> 00:50:04,920
Speaker 5: The brother hated me because I out of a job.

929
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:08,920
Speaker 5: And then we were just this covers band and I

930
00:50:08,960 --> 00:50:10,600
Speaker 5: was like, I thought we were going to be famous.

931
00:50:10,600 --> 00:50:11,399
Speaker 2: Where's that record? Deal?

932
00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:12,160
Speaker 1: Was that whatever?

933
00:50:13,120 --> 00:50:15,640
Speaker 5: But then there was a year of doing pubs, clubs,

934
00:50:15,719 --> 00:50:18,480
Speaker 5: gigs and whatever. I started to become a rock star.

935
00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:22,480
Speaker 5: I gide my hair black, I pierced my I just

936
00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:25,840
Speaker 5: it was like I got my mojo. And then he

937
00:50:25,960 --> 00:50:30,239
Speaker 5: was about to go to Alice Springs, which is in

938
00:50:30,239 --> 00:50:32,480
Speaker 5: the center of the country. They got a gig at

939
00:50:32,520 --> 00:50:35,440
Speaker 5: a casino and they said in nineteen ninety two, and

940
00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:39,439
Speaker 5: they said, do you want to come? And I was like, hell, no, no,

941
00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:41,560
Speaker 5: I'm not going, but I want to be in a

942
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:44,600
Speaker 5: band with you. And he said, okay, then we'll be

943
00:50:44,640 --> 00:50:46,839
Speaker 5: a duo if you learn this keyboard. And he gave

944
00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:49,799
Speaker 5: me an end sonic keyboard, which most of our first

945
00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:52,600
Speaker 5: album was written on, and he gave me the instruction booklet.

946
00:50:52,719 --> 00:50:54,160
Speaker 5: He said, if you learn how to play this, I'll

947
00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:56,200
Speaker 5: be in a band with you. I didn't learn how

948
00:50:56,200 --> 00:51:00,439
Speaker 5: to play it. He came back and we wrote most

949
00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:02,640
Speaker 5: of the first album together and that's how we became.

950
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:06,880
Speaker 1: That is so crazy now. Savage Garden was probably not

951
00:51:07,160 --> 00:51:11,160
Speaker 1: the first name that y'all discuss naming yourselves.

952
00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:12,200
Speaker 2: What was it?

953
00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:17,520
Speaker 1: Bliss Bliss? Oh, bliss Bliss. I mean, I've heard worse.

954
00:51:18,239 --> 00:51:22,200
Speaker 5: The first name we wanted to call ourselves was because

955
00:51:22,239 --> 00:51:26,279
Speaker 5: I was very very hip in terms of like ahead

956
00:51:26,280 --> 00:51:29,080
Speaker 5: of the curve of where music was going. I was

957
00:51:29,120 --> 00:51:32,280
Speaker 5: the person that was listening to like Jam and Lewis

958
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:36,319
Speaker 5: and like I was all about production and I was

959
00:51:36,360 --> 00:51:40,000
Speaker 5: obsessed with pop before it even happened. So while you

960
00:51:40,080 --> 00:51:42,960
Speaker 5: were making your records, I hadn't even heard them yet,

961
00:51:43,160 --> 00:51:46,040
Speaker 5: but I knew that's where music was going, because music

962
00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:50,719
Speaker 5: before you, before Brittany, before any of the amazing pop

963
00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:54,000
Speaker 5: that was about to come out, it was Runge. Do

964
00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:59,200
Speaker 5: you remember took Over. I was obsessed with pop. I

965
00:51:59,239 --> 00:52:01,719
Speaker 5: had never let it go from the eighties all the

966
00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:04,600
Speaker 5: way through to sort of Janet, So I was just

967
00:52:04,719 --> 00:52:08,280
Speaker 5: listening to that music and a lot of early eighties

968
00:52:08,280 --> 00:52:11,279
Speaker 5: stuff like new wave music, Duran, Duranne. So I wanted

969
00:52:11,320 --> 00:52:15,280
Speaker 5: to call us Heart of Glass, which was a Blondie reference.

970
00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:17,880
Speaker 5: It was also kind of a reference to sort of

971
00:52:19,160 --> 00:52:23,279
Speaker 5: you know, those bands from around culture club days and

972
00:52:23,320 --> 00:52:28,800
Speaker 5: things like that. And in the end, Savage Garden was

973
00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:31,200
Speaker 5: a reference to Anne Rice. I was reading Anne rice

974
00:52:31,280 --> 00:52:37,759
Speaker 5: novel Matic Gay, so that's where the name came from.

975
00:52:37,840 --> 00:52:40,480
Speaker 5: I still hate the name, always hated the name. Really,

976
00:52:41,640 --> 00:52:44,040
Speaker 5: it was like fifth Choice, but it was the only

977
00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:46,279
Speaker 5: one copyrighted and there was no website for it.

978
00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:49,360
Speaker 1: Yet that's it.

979
00:52:49,360 --> 00:52:49,880
Speaker 6: It stuck.

980
00:52:50,120 --> 00:52:53,120
Speaker 1: I hate. Look it worked, it worked well for you guys.

981
00:52:54,320 --> 00:52:56,719
Speaker 1: So it seemed like things did move quickly for you

982
00:52:56,760 --> 00:53:01,319
Speaker 1: in Savage Garden, like right out of the gate, did

983
00:53:01,360 --> 00:53:03,600
Speaker 1: you feel I know, I know you were doing the

984
00:53:03,600 --> 00:53:05,359
Speaker 1: club gigs and all that type of stuff. You know

985
00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:07,120
Speaker 1: that like the first you know, couple of years. But

986
00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:10,360
Speaker 1: did you feel ultimately that it was a quick rise

987
00:53:10,600 --> 00:53:13,600
Speaker 1: for you guys, Yes.

988
00:53:13,480 --> 00:53:15,200
Speaker 5: But I don't know if you relate to this. I

989
00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:18,879
Speaker 5: am a strong believer in I don't know a sense

990
00:53:18,880 --> 00:53:21,359
Speaker 5: of destiny. There are a few moments in my life

991
00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:25,760
Speaker 5: where I've felt it, and it's a spine tingling feeling.

992
00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:28,400
Speaker 5: But it used to sound arrogant back then saying it.

993
00:53:28,440 --> 00:53:30,880
Speaker 5: But I knew that it would happen. I knew. I

994
00:53:30,920 --> 00:53:33,200
Speaker 5: feel like I created it when I was thirteen. I

995
00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:36,160
Speaker 5: genuinely believe that, and there have been various moments in

996
00:53:36,200 --> 00:53:39,400
Speaker 5: my life where I believed that I've conjured something up

997
00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:41,319
Speaker 5: from the universe and it would happen. So I wasn't

998
00:53:41,360 --> 00:53:47,799
Speaker 5: surprised at all. It was meteoric, you know. All of

999
00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:51,439
Speaker 5: a sudden the record was out and then we didn't

1000
00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:53,719
Speaker 5: have a US deal in Rosio Donald was playing it on.

1001
00:53:53,680 --> 00:53:56,080
Speaker 6: Her I remember that too.

1002
00:53:56,200 --> 00:53:58,799
Speaker 1: She was obsessed with a song, and because Rosie played

1003
00:53:58,840 --> 00:54:02,319
Speaker 1: it on her show, that got radio on top of it.

1004
00:54:02,360 --> 00:54:04,960
Speaker 1: And y'all didn't you have your American label yet, So

1005
00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:05,960
Speaker 1: that must have been great.

1006
00:54:06,840 --> 00:54:10,920
Speaker 5: For you guys, and Clive Davis from Arista flew us

1007
00:54:10,920 --> 00:54:18,640
Speaker 5: over economy of course Don Einer from Colombia. Basically the

1008
00:54:18,640 --> 00:54:21,440
Speaker 5: two of them in the same day. We had essentially

1009
00:54:21,480 --> 00:54:23,680
Speaker 5: an audition to see if we could sing, and it

1010
00:54:23,800 --> 00:54:29,480
Speaker 5: was just Daniel playing keyboard. He weren't that great and

1011
00:54:29,480 --> 00:54:31,480
Speaker 5: and it was great songwriter, the two of us together,

1012
00:54:31,600 --> 00:54:34,440
Speaker 5: great songwrit It has a bit clunky on the keyboards.

1013
00:54:35,440 --> 00:54:39,239
Speaker 5: I'm clunky on the keyboards, but yeah. So that was

1014
00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:41,360
Speaker 5: terrifying because he was just like, oh my god, I

1015
00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:45,680
Speaker 5: am no Bert Bacarach, you know, but I sang for

1016
00:54:45,760 --> 00:54:49,880
Speaker 5: both gentlemen. Clives was terrifying because Clive was in the

1017
00:54:49,960 --> 00:54:51,680
Speaker 5: room and no one reacted.

1018
00:54:51,880 --> 00:54:55,680
Speaker 1: Well, it's like the mafia bosses in the room, like creepy.

1019
00:54:56,440 --> 00:54:56,640
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1020
00:54:58,560 --> 00:55:04,160
Speaker 5: Look, don was different. Donnie was just like he wanted

1021
00:55:04,160 --> 00:55:06,960
Speaker 5: the band. Arisa wanted us to put some covers on

1022
00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:12,640
Speaker 5: the record, and we refused, and Columbia just said, you

1023
00:55:12,680 --> 00:55:14,960
Speaker 5: can do whatever you want, we just want you nice.

1024
00:55:15,480 --> 00:55:19,440
Speaker 5: And so we had complete artistic control over that record

1025
00:55:19,560 --> 00:55:23,239
Speaker 5: from the beginning. So we went into the label in

1026
00:55:23,320 --> 00:55:27,320
Speaker 5: the US with complete artistic control to a certain degree.

1027
00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:30,839
Speaker 1: What was it like meeting Rosie o'donald for the first time,

1028
00:55:30,960 --> 00:55:33,960
Speaker 1: knowing that she had such a I don't know, a

1029
00:55:33,960 --> 00:55:36,680
Speaker 1: little start for your career in the States.

1030
00:55:36,680 --> 00:55:39,040
Speaker 5: Incredible, And every now and then she'll send me a

1031
00:55:39,080 --> 00:55:41,800
Speaker 5: little instant message and she'll say, I'm still so proud

1032
00:55:41,840 --> 00:55:42,080
Speaker 5: of you.

1033
00:55:44,160 --> 00:55:45,120
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1034
00:55:45,360 --> 00:55:49,239
Speaker 5: Oh, I get teary eyed because she's a gay icon

1035
00:55:49,400 --> 00:55:53,920
Speaker 5: and she's a pioneer and my life that we wouldn't

1036
00:55:53,960 --> 00:55:56,200
Speaker 5: have a US career without Rosie. There's no way in

1037
00:55:56,239 --> 00:55:57,680
Speaker 5: the world. And she knows that.

1038
00:55:57,760 --> 00:56:00,400
Speaker 1: And I know that she was the I mean if

1039
00:56:00,440 --> 00:56:02,600
Speaker 1: you wanted, if you wanted to get into pop culture,

1040
00:56:03,160 --> 00:56:05,319
Speaker 1: yeah you had Rosie had to be behind you. I

1041
00:56:05,320 --> 00:56:07,400
Speaker 1: mean she was the in the zeitguy.

1042
00:56:07,520 --> 00:56:09,560
Speaker 4: Well, I mean I watched that show as a young

1043
00:56:09,640 --> 00:56:11,839
Speaker 4: kid all the time with my mom after school. And

1044
00:56:11,840 --> 00:56:14,600
Speaker 4: that's how with you guys, Like she also took an

1045
00:56:14,600 --> 00:56:15,560
Speaker 4: affinity to when.

1046
00:56:15,520 --> 00:56:18,279
Speaker 1: She eventually did. Yeah, we did go on the first.

1047
00:56:18,680 --> 00:56:21,960
Speaker 4: But eventually and like remember I remember always she took

1048
00:56:21,960 --> 00:56:23,680
Speaker 4: you to like was it universal or something?

1049
00:56:23,719 --> 00:56:24,840
Speaker 1: So that's when I almost killed her.

1050
00:56:25,200 --> 00:56:26,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just.

1051
00:56:26,120 --> 00:56:28,600
Speaker 4: Remember that so vividly, and that kind of like you

1052
00:56:28,640 --> 00:56:30,800
Speaker 4: became more popular for me at that point.

1053
00:56:30,880 --> 00:56:34,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, She definitely helped our popularity, sure, because it was

1054
00:56:34,120 --> 00:56:36,719
Speaker 1: after that Disney special and then when Rosie kind of

1055
00:56:36,719 --> 00:56:40,839
Speaker 1: attaches to you, it was just it was the perfect scenario.

1056
00:56:41,120 --> 00:56:43,920
Speaker 4: Kis Min, I might say, it was there going to

1057
00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:45,759
Speaker 4: be their band name. It was going to be kis

1058
00:56:45,800 --> 00:56:49,279
Speaker 4: Mit instead of being seeing Yeah kis Min real.

1059
00:56:49,560 --> 00:56:53,399
Speaker 1: Yeah it works. We use it a lot these days.

1060
00:56:53,400 --> 00:56:56,399
Speaker 6: So who was that lose? Yeah? Yeah, it was his.

1061
00:56:56,400 --> 00:57:01,040
Speaker 5: Idea right Listen because when we were on tour, I

1062
00:57:01,120 --> 00:57:04,960
Speaker 5: used to watch your No Strings Attached DVD constantly and

1063
00:57:05,000 --> 00:57:09,880
Speaker 5: I my god, like we were just playing like we

1064
00:57:09,880 --> 00:57:12,080
Speaker 5: were playing like arenas and you guys were playing like

1065
00:57:12,320 --> 00:57:15,400
Speaker 5: stadiums at that point, and I was just like obsessed.

1066
00:57:15,640 --> 00:57:20,040
Speaker 5: Still pill can watch that performance and just like, oh

1067
00:57:20,480 --> 00:57:26,000
Speaker 5: my god, so tight. And recently I watched you know,

1068
00:57:26,040 --> 00:57:28,880
Speaker 5: all those amazing making making obs of those tours and

1069
00:57:30,080 --> 00:57:35,440
Speaker 5: it and the stamina and the professionalism and whenever, like

1070
00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:38,280
Speaker 5: I still bow down because that when when I was

1071
00:57:38,280 --> 00:57:40,960
Speaker 5: a kid watching Madonna, the only reason I got into

1072
00:57:41,000 --> 00:57:43,160
Speaker 5: fitness was because madonn jogged and I was like, what

1073
00:57:43,200 --> 00:57:49,280
Speaker 5: the hell's jogging? And I saw having to do cardio.

1074
00:57:50,040 --> 00:57:52,040
Speaker 5: That's I used to run on a treadmill and sing

1075
00:57:52,080 --> 00:57:52,560
Speaker 5: because of you.

1076
00:57:52,720 --> 00:57:54,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what that's what we'd have to do, and

1077
00:57:54,960 --> 00:57:56,360
Speaker 1: you just had to put the work in. And but

1078
00:57:56,400 --> 00:57:58,240
Speaker 1: at an early age, you didn't even know that was

1079
00:57:58,720 --> 00:58:00,520
Speaker 1: You didn't know that was hard work. That was just

1080
00:58:00,720 --> 00:58:02,360
Speaker 1: what it was. And I feel like the same way

1081
00:58:02,360 --> 00:58:05,040
Speaker 1: we always tell people because we have twins now and

1082
00:58:05,040 --> 00:58:07,880
Speaker 1: they're like, oh, that must be just so hard like twins.

1083
00:58:07,880 --> 00:58:10,040
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, we don't really know the difference because

1084
00:58:10,040 --> 00:58:12,080
Speaker 1: we didn't have one before, so this is just all

1085
00:58:12,120 --> 00:58:14,360
Speaker 1: we know. So to us, it just seems this.

1086
00:58:14,400 --> 00:58:17,439
Speaker 4: Is a part for the course. There'll be two in October, yeah,

1087
00:58:17,480 --> 00:58:17,959
Speaker 4: next month.

1088
00:58:18,680 --> 00:58:21,400
Speaker 5: So did you sleep much for the first six months

1089
00:58:21,480 --> 00:58:21,600
Speaker 5: or not?

1090
00:58:22,360 --> 00:58:24,640
Speaker 1: It was different the first couple of months, No, because

1091
00:58:25,600 --> 00:58:27,880
Speaker 1: the whole time I just would I didn't want to

1092
00:58:27,920 --> 00:58:30,120
Speaker 1: sleep because I felt like at any second they were

1093
00:58:30,160 --> 00:58:33,400
Speaker 1: going to die. So it's just like constantly just watching

1094
00:58:33,440 --> 00:58:37,080
Speaker 1: the breathe. Yeah, sleep deprivation is it's a real thing,

1095
00:58:37,480 --> 00:58:40,200
Speaker 1: sane with kids. There's so many times the first couple

1096
00:58:40,240 --> 00:58:43,400
Speaker 1: of months where I'm holding them and it felt like

1097
00:58:43,440 --> 00:58:46,560
Speaker 1: I'm in a dream and I'm staring at them. I'm like,

1098
00:58:47,120 --> 00:58:49,840
Speaker 1: are you real? Like it just didn't. They didn't seem real,

1099
00:58:50,040 --> 00:58:51,520
Speaker 1: and at any moment I thought I was just gonna

1100
00:58:51,520 --> 00:58:53,360
Speaker 1: like drop them because I was so tired. It just

1101
00:58:53,520 --> 00:58:54,760
Speaker 1: I just felt like I was in a dream state

1102
00:58:54,800 --> 00:58:55,400
Speaker 1: the first two months.

1103
00:58:55,480 --> 00:58:56,240
Speaker 6: Yeah, pretty much.

1104
00:58:57,120 --> 00:58:59,360
Speaker 5: Well, I'm very jealous and that sense in a good way.

1105
00:58:59,400 --> 00:59:01,400
Speaker 1: Well you want to have kids at some point, right.

1106
00:59:01,800 --> 00:59:05,640
Speaker 5: Dude, And I'm tent on doing that.

1107
00:59:06,000 --> 00:59:08,320
Speaker 1: Well when you're ever ready, ye know, because we got

1108
00:59:08,360 --> 00:59:10,400
Speaker 1: all the parts to do it, so we do.

1109
00:59:10,440 --> 00:59:13,320
Speaker 6: We know everyone, we got you. We've done it all.

1110
00:59:28,080 --> 00:59:29,520
Speaker 1: All right, So we got to get into some of

1111
00:59:29,560 --> 00:59:32,240
Speaker 1: the songs there. So it seems like you have some

1112
00:59:32,280 --> 00:59:36,760
Speaker 1: of the most romantic love songs ever out there, truly

1113
00:59:36,760 --> 00:59:39,560
Speaker 1: madly deeply I knew I loved you. Now, where did

1114
00:59:39,560 --> 00:59:42,760
Speaker 1: you find the inspiration for these love songs?

1115
00:59:44,080 --> 00:59:48,040
Speaker 5: Well, they're aspirational. I mean. What I think is fascinating

1116
00:59:48,040 --> 00:59:49,960
Speaker 5: about on You I loved you before I met you,

1117
00:59:50,880 --> 00:59:54,480
Speaker 5: was that I was not in love when I write

1118
00:59:54,520 --> 00:59:58,080
Speaker 5: that song. And in fact, that song we used to

1119
00:59:58,080 --> 01:00:02,760
Speaker 5: call the FU song because we delivered our second album

1120
01:00:02,800 --> 01:00:06,240
Speaker 5: to Sony and don Iina said, yeah, it's good, but

1121
01:00:06,240 --> 01:00:08,800
Speaker 5: there's no truly madely deeply on there. And I remember

1122
01:00:08,880 --> 01:00:12,760
Speaker 5: being so offended and was like rolling up my sleeves,

1123
01:00:12,800 --> 01:00:15,120
Speaker 5: being like, oh he wants he wants another truly madly

1124
01:00:15,160 --> 01:00:21,200
Speaker 5: deeply well, Kim, and we went into Walter Alfanasiev's front,

1125
01:00:21,400 --> 01:00:24,800
Speaker 5: this producer's front writing room. There was just a white

1126
01:00:24,880 --> 01:00:29,080
Speaker 5: grand piano, and we wrote that song in maybe ten

1127
01:00:29,120 --> 01:00:33,680
Speaker 5: or fifteen minutes, in a cynical sense, like very much,

1128
01:00:34,280 --> 01:00:38,400
Speaker 5: let's write the most basic, simple whatever. I prefer that

1129
01:00:38,480 --> 01:00:41,200
Speaker 5: song to this day, to truly madly deeply, because when

1130
01:00:41,200 --> 01:00:43,760
Speaker 5: I started writing the melody and the words came out

1131
01:00:43,800 --> 01:00:47,000
Speaker 5: of me, it made me want to cry, and I

1132
01:00:47,000 --> 01:00:50,680
Speaker 5: didn't know why, but I know today now because it's

1133
01:00:50,680 --> 01:00:55,320
Speaker 5: a song about future love and I was not feeling

1134
01:00:55,360 --> 01:00:59,480
Speaker 5: that love and I do feel that love today. Sometimes

1135
01:00:59,480 --> 01:01:02,600
Speaker 5: you just have to wait for it. But mothers come

1136
01:01:02,680 --> 01:01:03,840
Speaker 5: up to me and say to me all the time,

1137
01:01:03,960 --> 01:01:06,200
Speaker 5: this is how I feel about my baby. And so

1138
01:01:07,360 --> 01:01:09,960
Speaker 5: the whole time it was out, maybe fifteen years, I

1139
01:01:10,000 --> 01:01:12,600
Speaker 5: would always be like, but I would sing the song

1140
01:01:12,640 --> 01:01:15,640
Speaker 5: and sort of go through the motions. But there's something

1141
01:01:15,760 --> 01:01:20,800
Speaker 5: sometimes I think. I write songs and the subject matter

1142
01:01:20,880 --> 01:01:23,560
Speaker 5: or the experience hasn't even happened yet. And that's why

1143
01:01:24,000 --> 01:01:27,000
Speaker 5: truly was different. Truly, it was very much. You know,

1144
01:01:27,040 --> 01:01:31,080
Speaker 5: I was married to a woman and she's still one

1145
01:01:31,120 --> 01:01:34,200
Speaker 5: of my good friends and she's a sweetheart. I am

1146
01:01:34,240 --> 01:01:38,040
Speaker 5: so grateful to her for having the bravery and the

1147
01:01:38,120 --> 01:01:42,200
Speaker 5: compassion to realize we're so young, you know, and to

1148
01:01:42,280 --> 01:01:47,840
Speaker 5: realize that I hadn't finished growing yet, and she let

1149
01:01:47,840 --> 01:01:50,880
Speaker 5: me go. You know, she still loved me and she

1150
01:01:51,040 --> 01:01:58,600
Speaker 5: let me go, and even though I was gay, we

1151
01:01:58,720 --> 01:02:00,479
Speaker 5: still really cared about each other. It was a really

1152
01:02:00,520 --> 01:02:03,040
Speaker 5: difficult breakup because it was so confusing to me.

1153
01:02:03,040 --> 01:02:05,080
Speaker 1: Well young I loved each other, it just wasn't an

1154
01:02:05,160 --> 01:02:07,280
Speaker 1: romantic love exactly.

1155
01:02:07,360 --> 01:02:10,200
Speaker 5: And I remember being apart from her when I was

1156
01:02:10,240 --> 01:02:14,280
Speaker 5: recording the record, and that song is about her. Yeah

1157
01:02:14,320 --> 01:02:17,280
Speaker 5: it was about like I missed you so much and whatever.

1158
01:02:17,320 --> 01:02:20,520
Speaker 5: But you know, not long after that, she was this

1159
01:02:20,600 --> 01:02:23,720
Speaker 5: incredible person that essentially said you have to be free

1160
01:02:23,760 --> 01:02:26,320
Speaker 5: and you have to be the person that you want

1161
01:02:26,360 --> 01:02:29,960
Speaker 5: to be. And thank God for her, because, im it's

1162
01:02:30,000 --> 01:02:34,720
Speaker 5: when I would beg her to come back. Like I was, listen,

1163
01:02:34,800 --> 01:02:37,680
Speaker 5: I was like a nun Like I wasn't like I

1164
01:02:37,720 --> 01:02:40,240
Speaker 5: wish that I had all these amazing erotic stories of me,

1165
01:02:40,320 --> 01:02:44,760
Speaker 5: like just being out there single, but you know, and

1166
01:02:44,840 --> 01:02:46,920
Speaker 5: also being in the public eye and being in a

1167
01:02:46,960 --> 01:02:48,919
Speaker 5: pop band. It wasn't like I could go and date

1168
01:02:49,040 --> 01:02:51,720
Speaker 5: or anything, and so I found it really hard. And

1169
01:02:51,760 --> 01:02:54,040
Speaker 5: so I would often call her and be like, oh,

1170
01:02:54,160 --> 01:02:58,320
Speaker 5: we just like live together and just whatever. She would

1171
01:02:58,360 --> 01:03:03,240
Speaker 5: just say no, got allowed back. And I'm so so

1172
01:03:03,280 --> 01:03:04,360
Speaker 5: grateful to her for that.

1173
01:03:04,640 --> 01:03:06,080
Speaker 1: Now where is she these days?

1174
01:03:07,160 --> 01:03:10,840
Speaker 5: She's amazing. Oh man, she just she just kicks ass.

1175
01:03:10,920 --> 01:03:14,960
Speaker 5: We you know, we I saw her backstage in my

1176
01:03:15,000 --> 01:03:17,880
Speaker 5: hometown and uh, oh my god. I got into so

1177
01:03:17,920 --> 01:03:19,360
Speaker 5: much trouble. I didn't even put her on the guest

1178
01:03:19,400 --> 01:03:29,720
Speaker 5: list a person and she said to me, I was

1179
01:03:29,760 --> 01:03:32,800
Speaker 5: going to kick your ass, but we hugged and she

1180
01:03:32,840 --> 01:03:35,600
Speaker 5: just said, You're always going to be my person. You know.

1181
01:03:35,920 --> 01:03:40,520
Speaker 5: She's just she's an amazing, strong woman, incredible.

1182
01:03:41,520 --> 01:03:44,280
Speaker 1: So a few years back, Savage Garden unfortunately broke up

1183
01:03:45,160 --> 01:03:49,040
Speaker 1: one what ultimately led to that breakup, And you've said

1184
01:03:49,040 --> 01:03:51,200
Speaker 1: that you probably will never reunite, but is that the

1185
01:03:51,240 --> 01:03:51,920
Speaker 1: real truth?

1186
01:03:52,640 --> 01:03:56,800
Speaker 5: Oh my god. Yes, I was in a band with

1187
01:03:56,920 --> 01:04:00,520
Speaker 5: someone who, once they got success, got board with it

1188
01:04:00,560 --> 01:04:04,680
Speaker 5: and didn't want it anymore. Thanks for telling the rest

1189
01:04:04,680 --> 01:04:09,080
Speaker 5: of us. And then lied about how the band broke up.

1190
01:04:10,480 --> 01:04:11,520
Speaker 1: How did he say it broke up?

1191
01:04:12,920 --> 01:04:14,920
Speaker 5: How did he say it broke up? This is it

1192
01:04:14,960 --> 01:04:19,360
Speaker 5: broke up? Where backstage in Japan about to launch our

1193
01:04:19,400 --> 01:04:22,280
Speaker 5: second album, we have our second number one single in

1194
01:04:22,320 --> 01:04:26,120
Speaker 5: the US, just charting. Ah, and he sees himself on

1195
01:04:26,320 --> 01:04:30,840
Speaker 5: a beautiful promo bag from the Japanese record company and

1196
01:04:30,880 --> 01:04:32,920
Speaker 5: he freaks out because he doesn't want to be a product.

1197
01:04:33,320 --> 01:04:36,040
Speaker 6: Oh god, so you.

1198
01:04:36,000 --> 01:04:38,000
Speaker 5: Know, because he's an artist and he's a serious artist,

1199
01:04:38,040 --> 01:04:39,480
Speaker 5: he don't want to be a product anymore. And I

1200
01:04:39,560 --> 01:04:42,960
Speaker 5: walk in a management meeting where he's leaving the band

1201
01:04:43,160 --> 01:04:46,120
Speaker 5: a week before the album's coming out, and I'm going,

1202
01:04:46,800 --> 01:04:51,560
Speaker 5: what is going on? Oh God, you have to broke

1203
01:04:51,760 --> 01:04:55,440
Speaker 5: some deal in the room where I say, what if

1204
01:04:56,040 --> 01:04:59,400
Speaker 5: maybe you just turned up and did the dates that

1205
01:04:59,440 --> 01:05:03,560
Speaker 5: we've booked arenas for the next year, And he's like,

1206
01:05:04,720 --> 01:05:05,640
Speaker 5: maybe that could work.

1207
01:05:05,840 --> 01:05:07,240
Speaker 1: Finish your commitments.

1208
01:05:07,720 --> 01:05:10,520
Speaker 5: I did all the work for the band. I did

1209
01:05:10,600 --> 01:05:13,720
Speaker 5: every interview, every you know what it's like Bravo magazine,

1210
01:05:14,160 --> 01:05:19,840
Speaker 5: tried as a duo on your own. The guy, Oh,

1211
01:05:19,920 --> 01:05:26,640
Speaker 5: he's busy. He didn't do anything. And yet me loyal, naive, loving,

1212
01:05:27,200 --> 01:05:30,640
Speaker 5: I kept thinking it will eventually change his mind. And

1213
01:05:31,360 --> 01:05:34,520
Speaker 5: meanwhile he was launching his own record labels, he was

1214
01:05:34,920 --> 01:05:38,760
Speaker 5: recording bands, he was taking meetings. He thought that he

1215
01:05:38,920 --> 01:05:42,960
Speaker 5: was going to become like Ryan Tetta or Simon or

1216
01:05:43,000 --> 01:05:47,880
Speaker 5: something like that. Right, and we have all this on video.

1217
01:05:47,920 --> 01:05:51,880
Speaker 5: It's so funny, like we were filming a documentary at

1218
01:05:51,920 --> 01:05:54,400
Speaker 5: the time, and so towards the end of the tour,

1219
01:05:54,440 --> 01:05:55,800
Speaker 5: it started to dawn on me that well he was

1220
01:05:55,840 --> 01:05:58,240
Speaker 5: serious about this and it was not going to happen.

1221
01:05:59,320 --> 01:06:03,520
Speaker 5: So I said him, begged him and said, listen, if

1222
01:06:03,520 --> 01:06:05,439
Speaker 5: I become a solo artist, you have to tell people

1223
01:06:05,520 --> 01:06:10,400
Speaker 5: this is your idea because beatles, right, I will be

1224
01:06:10,440 --> 01:06:13,560
Speaker 5: blamed and also the singer. They're going to think that

1225
01:06:13,640 --> 01:06:18,640
Speaker 5: I just wanted to be single. And he promised me

1226
01:06:18,680 --> 01:06:24,880
Speaker 5: that he would. And we had a management contract at

1227
01:06:24,880 --> 01:06:28,440
Speaker 5: the time. We're managed by two different parties, and one

1228
01:06:28,440 --> 01:06:31,000
Speaker 5: of the parties we had a clause in there that

1229
01:06:31,840 --> 01:06:34,560
Speaker 5: it had activated where we could leave the management company

1230
01:06:34,560 --> 01:06:37,080
Speaker 5: if we wanted to. The key man it was a

1231
01:06:37,080 --> 01:06:40,520
Speaker 5: guy called Bob Cavallo from Disney used to manage prints,

1232
01:06:40,640 --> 01:06:43,400
Speaker 5: and Bob had left the company and I didn't want

1233
01:06:43,440 --> 01:06:46,360
Speaker 5: to be as a solo artist managed by this other entity.

1234
01:06:47,200 --> 01:06:51,640
Speaker 5: So I said to Daniel, can you help me write

1235
01:06:51,640 --> 01:06:53,400
Speaker 5: to them. We just need to put in writing that

1236
01:06:53,440 --> 01:06:55,520
Speaker 5: we want to leave this company. And he said, yeah,

1237
01:06:55,520 --> 01:06:59,919
Speaker 5: absolutely fine. The tour ends, we go our separate way,

1238
01:07:00,120 --> 01:07:02,080
Speaker 5: we have a goodbye dinner, we have a farewell dinner.

1239
01:07:02,320 --> 01:07:03,560
Speaker 5: It's like, my god, it's really over.

1240
01:07:03,760 --> 01:07:04,520
Speaker 2: It's over. It's great.

1241
01:07:04,680 --> 01:07:06,880
Speaker 5: You're going to tell everyone that you left. Yes, you're

1242
01:07:06,880 --> 01:07:11,480
Speaker 5: gonna write this management thing. Yes, what's gonna happen. And

1243
01:07:11,520 --> 01:07:13,840
Speaker 5: then one day I'm at home in San Francisco going

1244
01:07:13,880 --> 01:07:15,040
Speaker 5: and get a phone call from him, and he says,

1245
01:07:15,040 --> 01:07:17,600
Speaker 5: I've changed my mind. I don't really need to leave

1246
01:07:17,760 --> 01:07:19,440
Speaker 5: the management contract because I'm not going to be a

1247
01:07:19,480 --> 01:07:25,480
Speaker 5: performer anymore. And I said, you're gonna screw me and

1248
01:07:25,520 --> 01:07:27,640
Speaker 5: he said, yeah, but I have to look out for me.

1249
01:07:29,480 --> 01:07:33,520
Speaker 5: So we weren't talking. Yeah, I go on to my

1250
01:07:33,720 --> 01:07:38,280
Speaker 5: solo record. I'm making my solo record. And do you

1251
01:07:38,280 --> 01:07:42,800
Speaker 5: remember what long lead press was a long lead for people.

1252
01:07:43,000 --> 01:07:44,760
Speaker 5: We don't really have it anymore, but long lead us

1253
01:07:45,120 --> 01:07:49,240
Speaker 5: print magazines where you would record an interview and there

1254
01:07:49,280 --> 01:07:53,120
Speaker 5: would be an unbreakable commitment between the record company and

1255
01:07:53,160 --> 01:07:56,240
Speaker 5: the publisher and this is for Rolling Stone in Australia

1256
01:07:56,360 --> 01:07:59,720
Speaker 5: or it was, or maybe one of the major newspapers

1257
01:07:59,760 --> 01:08:03,920
Speaker 5: where was a three month old So they heard my

1258
01:08:03,960 --> 01:08:06,960
Speaker 5: solo album and then I told them, yes, the band

1259
01:08:07,000 --> 01:08:10,120
Speaker 5: has broken up. Whatever. And the next day I was

1260
01:08:10,160 --> 01:08:12,560
Speaker 5: about to phone him even though we were not speaking,

1261
01:08:12,800 --> 01:08:15,800
Speaker 5: to say listen, I've started my press so in about

1262
01:08:15,840 --> 01:08:18,840
Speaker 5: three months time, the story's going to break. I need

1263
01:08:18,880 --> 01:08:22,599
Speaker 5: you to make sure you tell people the truth. Well

1264
01:08:22,640 --> 01:08:27,679
Speaker 5: a journalist called the story into a tabloid newspaper. What

1265
01:08:29,000 --> 01:08:32,080
Speaker 5: but the next day this story breaks. Band breaks up

1266
01:08:32,760 --> 01:08:34,680
Speaker 5: and Daniel is on the road with one of his

1267
01:08:34,800 --> 01:08:38,040
Speaker 5: new bands that he signed that never ended up becoming

1268
01:08:38,080 --> 01:08:43,400
Speaker 5: successful and was at a bit bitchy. I'm glad. Yes,

1269
01:08:44,680 --> 01:08:47,080
Speaker 5: he's had a radio station and a journalist says to him,

1270
01:08:47,080 --> 01:08:48,960
Speaker 5: will we hear that Savage Garden is breaking up? As

1271
01:08:49,000 --> 01:08:51,320
Speaker 5: it's the truth, so I'll give him this one break

1272
01:08:51,360 --> 01:08:53,880
Speaker 5: Only he says it's the first I've ever heard of it.

1273
01:08:55,479 --> 01:08:59,760
Speaker 5: I was the headline lead singer leaves band doesn't even

1274
01:09:00,120 --> 01:09:05,760
Speaker 5: a guy h No, I'm on a plane to New York.

1275
01:09:05,800 --> 01:09:07,760
Speaker 5: I think you were involved in this too. Lance, This

1276
01:09:07,960 --> 01:09:10,400
Speaker 5: bono recording called what's going on?

1277
01:09:10,560 --> 01:09:13,400
Speaker 1: Oh, yes, let's go out. Yes, I was on it.

1278
01:09:14,080 --> 01:09:18,160
Speaker 5: Okay, So I'm on a tarmac in Lady just going, dude,

1279
01:09:18,280 --> 01:09:20,840
Speaker 5: what have you just said? And he said the same

1280
01:09:20,880 --> 01:09:23,160
Speaker 5: thing he said to me about the management thing. He said, well,

1281
01:09:23,640 --> 01:09:25,800
Speaker 5: you've said what you've said. Now I have to look

1282
01:09:25,800 --> 01:09:28,400
Speaker 5: out for myself. I'm going I look like Creamer.

1283
01:09:28,600 --> 01:09:29,240
Speaker 2: I'm going yeah.

1284
01:09:32,000 --> 01:09:35,400
Speaker 5: He's like, you'll see. I'm like, what do you mean,

1285
01:09:35,479 --> 01:09:37,599
Speaker 5: I'll see. What are you going to say? And he says,

1286
01:09:37,800 --> 01:09:39,040
Speaker 5: whatever I have to say?

1287
01:09:39,360 --> 01:09:41,679
Speaker 6: Oh no, never.

1288
01:09:41,680 --> 01:09:45,960
Speaker 5: Wanted to be famous? Who left the band? Suddenly arranged

1289
01:09:46,000 --> 01:09:49,320
Speaker 5: a press conference and there's a picture sitting on the

1290
01:09:49,320 --> 01:09:51,960
Speaker 5: steps of our local town going, look at all MOPy,

1291
01:09:52,160 --> 01:09:59,840
Speaker 5: Oh god, it's gone with that story since time, immemoriam only.

1292
01:10:00,320 --> 01:10:02,200
Speaker 5: I've always just told this story and told the truth

1293
01:10:02,240 --> 01:10:05,960
Speaker 5: and over time. Now the truth, which is what I say,

1294
01:10:06,280 --> 01:10:08,360
Speaker 5: is a fact and people know what happened. But for

1295
01:10:08,439 --> 01:10:11,639
Speaker 5: five or six years, he there were so many knives

1296
01:10:11,640 --> 01:10:15,320
Speaker 5: in my back. So the band never gonna get back together? Lance,

1297
01:10:15,560 --> 01:10:16,200
Speaker 5: Hell no.

1298
01:10:17,600 --> 01:10:18,200
Speaker 6: Good.

1299
01:10:18,600 --> 01:10:21,120
Speaker 1: Usually I say that we do put bands back together

1300
01:10:21,160 --> 01:10:23,160
Speaker 1: on the show, but I'm gonna say on this one,

1301
01:10:23,240 --> 01:10:25,080
Speaker 1: I don't know if we're gonna be able to help no.

1302
01:10:25,560 --> 01:10:29,560
Speaker 5: Man, Yeah, and admits what he did and publicly apologizes

1303
01:10:29,600 --> 01:10:32,559
Speaker 5: to me. Okay, maybe we'll do a charity show.

1304
01:10:32,680 --> 01:10:35,000
Speaker 1: Okay, So there is there is a chance.

1305
01:10:35,120 --> 01:10:37,040
Speaker 4: I think he was just salty that you got all

1306
01:10:37,080 --> 01:10:39,960
Speaker 4: the attention, because honestly, I didn't even realize he was

1307
01:10:39,960 --> 01:10:41,320
Speaker 4: in the group until.

1308
01:10:41,640 --> 01:10:42,679
Speaker 6: That's a kid.

1309
01:10:42,720 --> 01:10:45,519
Speaker 4: I only thought that you was you and like like

1310
01:10:45,560 --> 01:10:48,639
Speaker 4: the girl backrop singer, such a betrayal.

1311
01:10:48,680 --> 01:10:51,000
Speaker 5: And I think for me, like when you have to

1312
01:10:51,080 --> 01:10:53,360
Speaker 5: like literally grow a new limb and learn how to

1313
01:10:53,400 --> 01:10:56,160
Speaker 5: walk and do all that stuff. Now I do everything

1314
01:10:56,200 --> 01:10:58,320
Speaker 5: he used to do. I produced my own records. My

1315
01:10:58,360 --> 01:11:04,640
Speaker 5: last record I wrote, produce, prod engineered of you know,

1316
01:11:04,760 --> 01:11:08,360
Speaker 5: I'm the Miracle, was mixed by a genius called Trevor Yusuda.

1317
01:11:08,840 --> 01:11:09,240
Speaker 6: That was it.

1318
01:11:09,280 --> 01:11:11,320
Speaker 5: The only thing I didn't do was mix my album. Like,

1319
01:11:12,040 --> 01:11:15,840
Speaker 5: I'm so proud of the to say, how would I

1320
01:11:15,880 --> 01:11:16,920
Speaker 5: even write a song with him?

1321
01:11:17,120 --> 01:11:19,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, after ten years of taking a break and

1322
01:11:19,720 --> 01:11:23,080
Speaker 1: you're coming back with Homosexual, which you said you wrote produce.

1323
01:11:23,600 --> 01:11:26,880
Speaker 1: I mean you did everything for this one. Did you

1324
01:11:26,920 --> 01:11:29,639
Speaker 1: purposely want to go into that project like that or

1325
01:11:29,880 --> 01:11:32,360
Speaker 1: did you eventually be like, no, wait, I should be

1326
01:11:32,400 --> 01:11:32,960
Speaker 1: doing all of this.

1327
01:11:34,120 --> 01:11:36,519
Speaker 5: I did it because I remember being really inspired by

1328
01:11:36,560 --> 01:11:40,720
Speaker 5: George Michael and I loved how hands on George was,

1329
01:11:40,720 --> 01:11:42,120
Speaker 5: and I think for a long time I was really

1330
01:11:42,200 --> 01:11:45,160
Speaker 5: intimidated not to be that. I was always producing records.

1331
01:11:45,840 --> 01:11:48,160
Speaker 5: I was always there and never really given the credit

1332
01:11:48,200 --> 01:11:51,160
Speaker 5: for that. Sometimes, especially on the second Savage Garden record.

1333
01:11:51,840 --> 01:11:57,440
Speaker 5: You know, I will never ever criticize our songwriting chemistry.

1334
01:11:57,479 --> 01:12:01,439
Speaker 5: It was absolutely fifty to fifty and Daniel deserves all

1335
01:12:01,520 --> 01:12:04,160
Speaker 5: of that credit. It was fifty to fifty and his

1336
01:12:04,280 --> 01:12:08,760
Speaker 5: songwriting with me amazing. I'll never ever say anything about that,

1337
01:12:08,840 --> 01:12:11,760
Speaker 5: and nothing they do that, But yeah, he really wasn't

1338
01:12:11,800 --> 01:12:15,200
Speaker 5: there in the studio the second record. It was Walter A.

1339
01:12:16,160 --> 01:12:18,200
Speaker 5: You know, I don't even know if Daniel is playing

1340
01:12:18,240 --> 01:12:20,720
Speaker 5: on the second record, you know. So I was there

1341
01:12:20,760 --> 01:12:24,920
Speaker 5: from that second record, watching, learning, loving than Walter did

1342
01:12:25,000 --> 01:12:27,600
Speaker 5: my first solo record, and then from then on for

1343
01:12:27,640 --> 01:12:30,800
Speaker 5: the last I don't know, since you know, last twenty

1344
01:12:30,840 --> 01:12:35,240
Speaker 5: three years, I've been a studio animal, and I realized

1345
01:12:35,280 --> 01:12:40,240
Speaker 5: that so much of producing is taste and intuition and

1346
01:12:40,439 --> 01:12:43,040
Speaker 5: just why don't we try this? And so I've I

1347
01:12:43,439 --> 01:12:44,920
Speaker 5: learned how to do a bunch of this.

1348
01:12:44,880 --> 01:12:47,280
Speaker 1: Stuff that I'm well, I'm sure you learned so much

1349
01:12:47,320 --> 01:12:49,240
Speaker 1: doing something like that. What do you think is the

1350
01:12:49,560 --> 01:12:53,519
Speaker 1: biggest thing that you did learn about the side of

1351
01:12:53,600 --> 01:12:55,280
Speaker 1: the producing side of yourself.

1352
01:12:56,280 --> 01:12:58,680
Speaker 5: That usually your first idea is the best one that

1353
01:12:58,960 --> 01:13:04,880
Speaker 5: record every melody like melody king, you know, you know

1354
01:13:04,960 --> 01:13:10,880
Speaker 5: chord progressions are They're less special I think than say

1355
01:13:12,320 --> 01:13:15,280
Speaker 5: a sound palette. I think a sound palette is what

1356
01:13:15,360 --> 01:13:19,800
Speaker 5: makes a really amazing producer. You know, anyone can really

1357
01:13:20,800 --> 01:13:25,200
Speaker 5: sort of play some chords, but it's creating a sonic field,

1358
01:13:25,439 --> 01:13:29,400
Speaker 5: which I don't confess to be that great at. But

1359
01:13:30,000 --> 01:13:34,280
Speaker 5: you know, when I think of some of the incredible

1360
01:13:34,320 --> 01:13:38,040
Speaker 5: mix engineers and producers that have made some of my

1361
01:13:38,040 --> 01:13:41,599
Speaker 5: favorite records, you know, they just create a world that's

1362
01:13:43,400 --> 01:13:48,320
Speaker 5: it's alchemy, that's magical. It's just the thing that makes

1363
01:13:48,520 --> 01:13:50,760
Speaker 5: and recognizing when the hair is standing up on the

1364
01:13:50,800 --> 01:13:53,080
Speaker 5: back of your neck. Same thing with a melody. Sometimes

1365
01:13:53,120 --> 01:13:55,040
Speaker 5: you can just over polish a turd.

1366
01:13:55,520 --> 01:13:59,920
Speaker 1: But true, what do you think of with AI? You know,

1367
01:14:00,080 --> 01:14:03,360
Speaker 1: be in the big moment right now? How bad do

1368
01:14:03,400 --> 01:14:06,120
Speaker 1: you think that is going to change our industry? And

1369
01:14:06,160 --> 01:14:09,800
Speaker 1: what can we do to make sure that art stays aren't.

1370
01:14:11,400 --> 01:14:14,559
Speaker 5: Oh, I have a controversial opinion about that. I think

1371
01:14:16,000 --> 01:14:18,200
Speaker 5: the financial aspect of it is the only thing to

1372
01:14:18,240 --> 01:14:20,439
Speaker 5: really be worried about. I think we need to make

1373
01:14:20,800 --> 01:14:24,559
Speaker 5: actors are getting paid. There's a situation at the moment

1374
01:14:24,600 --> 01:14:27,040
Speaker 5: when it comes to film where they're trying not to

1375
01:14:27,040 --> 01:14:30,920
Speaker 5: have background actors because you just have a bunch of

1376
01:14:31,479 --> 01:14:37,760
Speaker 5: CGIP you're trying to have. They're trying to do a

1377
01:14:37,800 --> 01:14:41,679
Speaker 5: bunch of people out of their hard and work that

1378
01:14:41,760 --> 01:14:46,640
Speaker 5: I have moral opposition to. When it comes to I

1379
01:14:46,680 --> 01:14:48,639
Speaker 5: think there's a fear at the moment that's a little

1380
01:14:48,640 --> 01:14:54,040
Speaker 5: bit like our understandable fear of Spotify and the devaluation

1381
01:14:54,200 --> 01:14:59,760
Speaker 5: of music. I think we need to make sure that

1382
01:14:59,800 --> 01:15:05,200
Speaker 5: the financial aspect of AI doesn't dominate. If there's a

1383
01:15:05,200 --> 01:15:08,719
Speaker 5: way to collaborate with the computer without making the computer

1384
01:15:08,800 --> 01:15:12,920
Speaker 5: the highest paid songwriter in the room. Yeah, you know.

1385
01:15:13,000 --> 01:15:15,240
Speaker 5: I think being afraid of technology is never a great

1386
01:15:15,240 --> 01:15:18,000
Speaker 5: idea because technology is always going to advance.

1387
01:15:18,040 --> 01:15:19,320
Speaker 6: It's always going to be here. Yeah.

1388
01:15:19,600 --> 01:15:26,360
Speaker 5: Yeah, But giving technology or a stream and value, as say,

1389
01:15:27,200 --> 01:15:30,080
Speaker 5: holding a physical product was a stupid thing to do.

1390
01:15:30,400 --> 01:15:32,840
Speaker 5: It was a really really stupid thing to do it once.

1391
01:15:33,040 --> 01:15:35,000
Speaker 5: The minute you told someone that a song was only

1392
01:15:35,000 --> 01:15:41,120
Speaker 5: worth ninety nine cents, a song is worth, yeah, a

1393
01:15:41,200 --> 01:15:45,080
Speaker 5: song is priceless. But we told people it was only

1394
01:15:45,120 --> 01:15:49,160
Speaker 5: worth ninety nine sense, we lost it and we did that.

1395
01:15:49,720 --> 01:15:51,559
Speaker 1: I never even looked at it that way. But you're right,

1396
01:15:51,680 --> 01:15:56,600
Speaker 1: you're completely right, all right. So when do you know

1397
01:15:56,680 --> 01:15:58,160
Speaker 1: the date the memoir is going to come out? Because

1398
01:15:58,160 --> 01:16:00,519
Speaker 1: I want to make sure that we all get.

1399
01:16:00,320 --> 01:16:04,960
Speaker 5: That kind you know. I think it's slated for the

1400
01:16:05,040 --> 01:16:10,840
Speaker 5: Christmas period next year. I know, lots of deadlines, said,

1401
01:16:10,880 --> 01:16:12,160
Speaker 5: you have to really write a book?

1402
01:16:12,600 --> 01:16:13,080
Speaker 6: Who knew?

1403
01:16:13,280 --> 01:16:15,600
Speaker 1: It's a lot. It's a lot, and it's just like

1404
01:16:15,640 --> 01:16:17,240
Speaker 1: a musical. I mean, it doesn't take as long as

1405
01:16:17,240 --> 01:16:20,120
Speaker 1: a musical, but it's a lot more undertaking than most

1406
01:16:20,160 --> 01:16:21,760
Speaker 1: people would ever understand.

1407
01:16:23,000 --> 01:16:25,720
Speaker 5: I'm great, you know. I didn't realize that there that

1408
01:16:26,000 --> 01:16:29,280
Speaker 5: you know. I mean, I'm writing it, you know, and

1409
01:16:29,280 --> 01:16:32,720
Speaker 5: a lot of people don't write their book. Yeah, And

1410
01:16:32,760 --> 01:16:38,040
Speaker 5: so I have to turn in essentially a final draft

1411
01:16:39,800 --> 01:16:44,520
Speaker 5: by February next year, so I'll best be getting.

1412
01:16:44,200 --> 01:16:46,120
Speaker 1: To it, all right. Well, we're looking forward to that.

1413
01:16:46,400 --> 01:16:48,280
Speaker 1: And one fun fact that I love about you? Is

1414
01:16:48,320 --> 01:16:53,479
Speaker 1: you love your Star Wars probably more than you Yeah, yeah,

1415
01:16:53,479 --> 01:16:54,920
Speaker 1: a little bit. Well, of course I do have the

1416
01:16:54,960 --> 01:16:57,360
Speaker 1: mayor fourth be with your birthday, which makes me kind of.

1417
01:16:57,280 --> 01:16:59,679
Speaker 5: Like, isn't Joey the really big.

1418
01:16:59,520 --> 01:17:02,759
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, he he's big star Wars, Yeah, for sure,

1419
01:17:03,520 --> 01:17:05,280
Speaker 1: and you collect I think a lot of things from

1420
01:17:05,280 --> 01:17:10,640
Speaker 1: Star Wars too. What made you get into Star Wars really.

1421
01:17:10,360 --> 01:17:17,080
Speaker 5: Just I think the idea that there was another purpose

1422
01:17:17,120 --> 01:17:19,800
Speaker 5: for me somewhere else a long time time, in a

1423
01:17:19,880 --> 01:17:24,920
Speaker 5: galaxy far far away. And the lead character you don't

1424
01:17:24,960 --> 01:17:27,240
Speaker 5: have to be Sigmund Freud to work out how I

1425
01:17:27,280 --> 01:17:33,000
Speaker 5: could relate to this. He was an orphan. He felt

1426
01:17:33,080 --> 01:17:36,439
Speaker 5: like and knew in his heart that his destiny was

1427
01:17:36,439 --> 01:17:40,760
Speaker 5: somewhere else. One would believe him, and he would look

1428
01:17:40,840 --> 01:17:44,240
Speaker 5: up to the stars and he would imagine that there

1429
01:17:44,280 --> 01:17:47,760
Speaker 5: was a greater purpose for him, And it was his

1430
01:17:47,800 --> 01:17:53,519
Speaker 5: own self belief that propelled him toward eventually becoming what

1431
01:17:53,680 --> 01:17:59,439
Speaker 5: his destiny was, which was essentially the last Jedi. You know,

1432
01:17:59,600 --> 01:18:04,120
Speaker 5: like this credible, mystical, powerful being. But he started off

1433
01:18:04,120 --> 01:18:05,800
Speaker 5: as just a farm boy in a.

1434
01:18:05,800 --> 01:18:12,080
Speaker 1: Stupid hat kind of what I was to You're so

1435
01:18:12,200 --> 01:18:15,000
Speaker 1: poetic I can. I can see why you are a songwriter.

1436
01:18:16,000 --> 01:18:17,800
Speaker 1: All right, let's give a frosted tip here before I

1437
01:18:17,840 --> 01:18:20,240
Speaker 1: let you go. You took a decade long hiatus from

1438
01:18:20,439 --> 01:18:24,040
Speaker 1: your career. For someone who wants to give back into

1439
01:18:24,080 --> 01:18:26,920
Speaker 1: a passion they once had, what tips do you have

1440
01:18:27,040 --> 01:18:29,559
Speaker 1: for them?

1441
01:18:29,840 --> 01:18:35,160
Speaker 5: Oh, slowly remove all the things from your life that

1442
01:18:35,200 --> 01:18:41,720
Speaker 5: make you happy. Hit rock bottom, and then you realize

1443
01:18:41,800 --> 01:18:45,200
Speaker 5: that you can do a list actually on one side

1444
01:18:45,240 --> 01:18:48,640
Speaker 5: and just look back and think what used to make

1445
01:18:48,680 --> 01:18:51,519
Speaker 5: me happy and start reintroducing those things. And I think

1446
01:18:51,920 --> 01:18:56,840
Speaker 5: for me, I purposely moved away from music, and I

1447
01:18:56,920 --> 01:18:59,839
Speaker 5: was doing everything from I went through the Groundlings program

1448
01:19:00,120 --> 01:19:03,280
Speaker 5: in LA, studying improv comedy. I was even doing stand

1449
01:19:03,360 --> 01:19:04,719
Speaker 5: up why, I don't.

1450
01:19:04,479 --> 01:19:07,519
Speaker 1: Know which I think is the hardest job in entertainment,

1451
01:19:07,560 --> 01:19:09,000
Speaker 1: by the way.

1452
01:19:08,000 --> 01:19:12,120
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, sort of did everything I could to sort

1453
01:19:12,120 --> 01:19:16,439
Speaker 5: of deny this part of me that we're so essential.

1454
01:19:18,840 --> 01:19:20,760
Speaker 5: But now I look back and I'm so grateful. If

1455
01:19:20,800 --> 01:19:23,000
Speaker 5: I look at the music videos that I made during

1456
01:19:23,080 --> 01:19:25,760
Speaker 5: this project, you know, I directed a lot of them,

1457
01:19:26,040 --> 01:19:30,320
Speaker 5: I acted in them. I ended up making friends who

1458
01:19:30,400 --> 01:19:32,760
Speaker 5: had no idea who I was. So all of my

1459
01:19:32,800 --> 01:19:36,080
Speaker 5: friendships and relationships became so much more grounded and real.

1460
01:19:37,520 --> 01:19:42,280
Speaker 5: So I mean, honestly, I just think that cliched phrase,

1461
01:19:42,320 --> 01:19:44,360
Speaker 5: you know, a change is as good as a holiday.

1462
01:19:44,520 --> 01:19:44,840
Speaker 1: For me.

1463
01:19:45,920 --> 01:19:49,760
Speaker 5: I wasn't happy making music, and I had to leave

1464
01:19:49,840 --> 01:19:55,559
Speaker 5: it to appreciate what I had. I just know that

1465
01:19:55,640 --> 01:20:02,799
Speaker 5: one day something in my life needed expressing so badly

1466
01:20:03,280 --> 01:20:06,360
Speaker 5: that I found myself here in at my studio and

1467
01:20:06,840 --> 01:20:09,360
Speaker 5: I wrote a song called Let's Try Being in Love,

1468
01:20:10,040 --> 01:20:14,560
Speaker 5: and it was It was so passionate and so colorful,

1469
01:20:14,600 --> 01:20:17,200
Speaker 5: and I knew everything. I knew everything, every color, every

1470
01:20:17,240 --> 01:20:19,800
Speaker 5: show I knew. I started collecting clothing. I knew exactly

1471
01:20:20,960 --> 01:20:25,400
Speaker 5: what everything was going to be. So I think you

1472
01:20:25,479 --> 01:20:28,040
Speaker 5: have to love it more than the paycheck, and you

1473
01:20:28,080 --> 01:20:30,519
Speaker 5: have to love it more than the process and the

1474
01:20:30,520 --> 01:20:32,799
Speaker 5: pain and the callouses and all that sort of stuff.

1475
01:20:33,080 --> 01:20:37,479
Speaker 5: And I didn't and I do now.

1476
01:20:37,840 --> 01:20:39,920
Speaker 1: So yeah, sometimes you have to let it go. And

1477
01:20:39,920 --> 01:20:41,559
Speaker 1: if it comes back to or what do they say,

1478
01:20:41,640 --> 01:20:44,960
Speaker 1: when you love someone, let they come out? It's meant

1479
01:20:44,960 --> 01:20:45,120
Speaker 1: to be.

1480
01:20:45,960 --> 01:20:46,200
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1481
01:20:46,320 --> 01:20:51,200
Speaker 1: I just get to a couple of fan questions sharensby Eskireka,

1482
01:20:51,520 --> 01:20:54,280
Speaker 1: I would like to know is there a Savage Garden

1483
01:20:54,320 --> 01:20:56,640
Speaker 1: song you wish you could re record.

1484
01:20:57,600 --> 01:21:02,720
Speaker 5: Oh, great question. I never would because I understand that

1485
01:21:03,800 --> 01:21:07,120
Speaker 5: the artists desire to do that because my voice just

1486
01:21:07,200 --> 01:21:10,639
Speaker 5: wasn't as good back then as it is today. I'm

1487
01:21:10,720 --> 01:21:14,040
Speaker 5: just older and I have more control over it now,

1488
01:21:14,080 --> 01:21:17,120
Speaker 5: and I think it's just a better instrument on a

1489
01:21:17,120 --> 01:21:19,439
Speaker 5: good day. On a bad day, it sounds like a

1490
01:21:19,479 --> 01:21:24,479
Speaker 5: foghorn and my dog hates it. But yeah, some of

1491
01:21:24,560 --> 01:21:28,080
Speaker 5: the there's a mistake in the song to the Moon

1492
01:21:28,120 --> 01:21:33,360
Speaker 5: and Back where I say all her friends they've been

1493
01:21:33,479 --> 01:21:39,840
Speaker 5: trialed for treason, and the phrase is tried. It's no embarrassing.

1494
01:21:43,960 --> 01:21:47,280
Speaker 1: I love how things like that makes make a cut

1495
01:21:47,600 --> 01:21:49,840
Speaker 1: of it. You know, it's like it's.

1496
01:21:49,760 --> 01:21:52,479
Speaker 4: Like no one else saw this, No one person really

1497
01:21:53,960 --> 01:21:55,439
Speaker 4: noticed it.

1498
01:21:55,560 --> 01:21:57,479
Speaker 1: But see, I love mistakes like that. I think that's great.

1499
01:21:58,560 --> 01:22:01,360
Speaker 1: I'm bippo. Would like to know what was it like

1500
01:22:01,479 --> 01:22:02,680
Speaker 1: being at the Olympics.

1501
01:22:03,120 --> 01:22:07,639
Speaker 7: Oh, it was so exciting because that's the first time

1502
01:22:07,680 --> 01:22:16,000
Speaker 7: I met Kylie Minogue, just before Kylie's one of several reinventions,

1503
01:22:16,040 --> 01:22:18,000
Speaker 7: but that was right before I Can't get You out

1504
01:22:18,040 --> 01:22:18,479
Speaker 7: of my head.

1505
01:22:18,560 --> 01:22:23,599
Speaker 5: Yeah, slightly accessible then, so she was the massive star,

1506
01:22:25,560 --> 01:22:29,479
Speaker 5: but slightly more accessible where I got her phone number.

1507
01:22:29,840 --> 01:22:31,760
Speaker 5: So that really really cool.

1508
01:22:32,200 --> 01:22:35,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, All the Lovers is like my ultimate song. Ye,

1509
01:22:36,920 --> 01:22:39,000
Speaker 1: that video that was incredible.

1510
01:22:39,600 --> 01:22:40,559
Speaker 5: That new song.

1511
01:22:42,360 --> 01:22:44,519
Speaker 1: Was like the biggest Pride moment ever, Like it was.

1512
01:22:45,400 --> 01:22:46,920
Speaker 5: That was a little riff on.

1513
01:22:48,680 --> 01:22:50,160
Speaker 6: It was a good it was a good dad joke.

1514
01:22:50,960 --> 01:22:53,360
Speaker 6: We appreciate it. Actually here at the show, I love

1515
01:22:53,400 --> 01:22:54,400
Speaker 6: it all right.

1516
01:22:54,479 --> 01:22:56,680
Speaker 1: Well, Darren, it was so great to catch up with you.

1517
01:22:56,800 --> 01:22:59,200
Speaker 1: I hope, I hope it doesn't take us another quarter

1518
01:22:59,240 --> 01:23:01,040
Speaker 1: of a century to see each other again.

1519
01:23:01,160 --> 01:23:03,479
Speaker 6: Well, we live twenty minutes away, so hopefully right next.

1520
01:23:03,320 --> 01:23:06,080
Speaker 5: To you, I know, And let's do the la thing

1521
01:23:06,080 --> 01:23:07,200
Speaker 5: and just say let's get lunch.

1522
01:23:07,320 --> 01:23:08,040
Speaker 6: Let's get get lunch.

1523
01:23:08,080 --> 01:23:10,240
Speaker 1: I would love that. No, seriously, let's get together because

1524
01:23:10,240 --> 01:23:11,760
Speaker 1: I would love to even catch up with you even

1525
01:23:11,800 --> 01:23:14,360
Speaker 1: more and talk about things we can't talk about.

1526
01:23:14,200 --> 01:23:14,719
Speaker 2: On the radio.

1527
01:23:15,439 --> 01:23:19,360
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, juicy juicy scoop. Oh no, that's heathern McDonald uh.

1528
01:23:22,000 --> 01:23:22,280
Speaker 2: Both.

1529
01:23:22,960 --> 01:23:24,240
Speaker 5: Thanks so fun?

1530
01:23:24,360 --> 01:23:26,360
Speaker 1: Oh, definitely fun. Is there anything you would like to

1531
01:23:26,360 --> 01:23:28,000
Speaker 1: tell your fans before we let you go?

1532
01:23:28,640 --> 01:23:31,040
Speaker 5: Oh my gosh, just thanks for remembering me, or we

1533
01:23:31,080 --> 01:23:33,240
Speaker 5: say that, just thanks for remembering me. I just think,

1534
01:23:33,560 --> 01:23:35,360
Speaker 5: you know, how do you remember.

1535
01:23:35,040 --> 01:23:37,719
Speaker 1: That you're unforgettable. Are you kidding me? I mean especially

1536
01:23:37,720 --> 01:23:40,719
Speaker 1: for our generation. You were the voice of our generation

1537
01:23:40,920 --> 01:23:44,519
Speaker 1: for so long. So yeah, you're you're graded with us.

1538
01:23:44,560 --> 01:23:45,840
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, very great.

1539
01:23:46,600 --> 01:23:46,880
Speaker 3: Thanks.

1540
01:23:47,960 --> 01:23:48,960
Speaker 5: Let me peek inside your home.

1541
01:23:48,960 --> 01:23:50,599
Speaker 1: It's been really oh I know. Well yeah, well if

1542
01:23:50,600 --> 01:23:52,280
Speaker 1: you look at anywhere else, is gonna be baby stuff

1543
01:23:52,360 --> 01:23:55,280
Speaker 1: just everywhere everywhere. It's a disaster.

1544
01:23:55,360 --> 01:23:57,040
Speaker 2: It's a fun disaster, all.

1545
01:23:57,000 --> 01:23:58,720
Speaker 1: Right, buddy. Well, thank you so much for being on

1546
01:23:58,760 --> 01:24:00,800
Speaker 1: the show, and I hope you have a great rest

1547
01:24:00,800 --> 01:24:01,400
Speaker 1: of the day.

1548
01:24:01,880 --> 01:24:02,519
Speaker 5: You guys too.

1549
01:24:02,640 --> 01:24:21,360
Speaker 1: All right, body dodge later bye, mister Darren.

1550
01:24:20,880 --> 01:24:22,960
Speaker 6: Hay Shall, Shall we say it again?

1551
01:24:23,200 --> 01:24:26,519
Speaker 1: I mean the nicest, just the nicest, but what what

1552
01:24:26,720 --> 01:24:29,919
Speaker 1: Australian person do you know that is not the nicest?

1553
01:24:30,080 --> 01:24:32,360
Speaker 6: I mean it's kind of true name one.

1554
01:24:32,760 --> 01:24:34,960
Speaker 1: I can't I'm sure there's a lot of that strains

1555
01:24:34,960 --> 01:24:37,680
Speaker 1: out there being like oh Susie Smith.

1556
01:24:38,160 --> 01:24:40,599
Speaker 6: Oh Sue Suthee Smith.

1557
01:24:41,120 --> 01:24:46,040
Speaker 4: God, okay, you proved it, Jammy, Oh Jammay, she's a

1558
01:24:46,080 --> 01:24:47,360
Speaker 4: title bitch.

1559
01:24:47,880 --> 01:24:49,840
Speaker 1: For y'all that don't know. Jam you have to catch

1560
01:24:49,920 --> 01:24:51,960
Speaker 1: up on this show. It's well, it's been a few

1561
01:24:52,000 --> 01:24:54,080
Speaker 1: years now, it's been a few years, but it's it

1562
01:24:54,200 --> 01:24:55,719
Speaker 1: started out, what was the show.

1563
01:24:55,680 --> 01:24:58,160
Speaker 4: Summer High Time with Chris Lily who plays all these

1564
01:24:58,160 --> 01:25:01,840
Speaker 4: different characters. It's could be it's a controversial show.

1565
01:25:02,240 --> 01:25:05,040
Speaker 1: You know, it's controversial, but it's it's supposed to be constraus.

1566
01:25:05,200 --> 01:25:08,200
Speaker 1: It's supposed to be supposed to be ignorantly controversial. Yes,

1567
01:25:09,120 --> 01:25:12,240
Speaker 1: and I I just and Jimmy is just such a

1568
01:25:12,280 --> 01:25:13,080
Speaker 1: crazy character.

1569
01:25:13,160 --> 01:25:14,000
Speaker 6: She's a gay icon.

1570
01:25:14,160 --> 01:25:15,920
Speaker 1: She has a gay icon for sure. So he plays

1571
01:25:16,200 --> 01:25:18,439
Speaker 1: like a sixteen year old very you.

1572
01:25:18,400 --> 01:25:23,000
Speaker 4: Know, obnoxious, rich private school girl on jim My private

1573
01:25:23,040 --> 01:25:23,519
Speaker 4: school girl.

1574
01:25:24,000 --> 01:25:28,760
Speaker 6: Jay A m i A. We had yet set her on.

1575
01:25:28,840 --> 01:25:31,920
Speaker 1: Show, okay, because they spin off these to the characters.

1576
01:25:32,000 --> 01:25:34,120
Speaker 6: Yeah, they had jam A for a few couple.

1577
01:25:33,960 --> 01:25:36,559
Speaker 1: Of seaons okay, Yeah, and there was another character too, right.

1578
01:25:36,800 --> 01:25:40,120
Speaker 6: Yeah, they had mister Geez. They had the boy, uh,

1579
01:25:40,680 --> 01:25:41,360
Speaker 6: the boy.

1580
01:25:41,280 --> 01:25:42,040
Speaker 2: I forget his name.

1581
01:25:42,680 --> 01:25:44,200
Speaker 4: And they had a whole new season where he did

1582
01:25:44,240 --> 01:25:45,880
Speaker 4: one called like Crazy's or something.

1583
01:25:46,080 --> 01:25:47,960
Speaker 1: Well, we didn't ask him what he's binging right now,

1584
01:25:48,040 --> 01:25:51,720
Speaker 1: So just go watch that show, all right, guys. Well

1585
01:25:51,800 --> 01:25:53,920
Speaker 1: that is all the show I have for you. Thank

1586
01:25:53,960 --> 01:25:58,920
Speaker 1: you so much for listening. Turkey as always, Gobble, gobble, gobble, yeah,

1587
01:25:59,000 --> 01:26:01,120
Speaker 1: goble gobs all, I got it all right. Be good

1588
01:26:01,120 --> 01:26:03,320
Speaker 1: to each other out there, don't drink and drive, take

1589
01:26:03,360 --> 01:26:10,120
Speaker 1: care of those animals, and remembered Hey, thanks for listening.

1590
01:26:10,280 --> 01:26:13,640
Speaker 1: Follow us on Instagram at Frosted Tips with Lance and

1591
01:26:13,720 --> 01:26:16,679
Speaker 1: Michael Turchinard and at Lance Bass for all your pop

1592
01:26:16,720 --> 01:26:17,479
Speaker 1: culture needs

1593
01:26:17,760 --> 01:26:19,680
Speaker 4: And make sure to write a review and leave us

1594
01:26:19,720 --> 01:26:22,160
Speaker 4: five stars six if you can see you next time.