WEBVTT - Jemele Hill | Ep 17 | ALL THE SMOKE 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:06.920 M hmm. Everything she does. That's because she never loses 0:00:06.960 --> 0:00:11.680 sight of what's important. Putting on a military transport tonight. Hell, yes, 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:17.400 he's backing down on either side. We have a bona 0:00:17.480 --> 0:00:22.200 fide crisis. We'll follow it up together, get to the truth. 0:00:23.800 --> 0:00:31.120 I did what had to be done. Sports is being 0:00:31.240 --> 0:00:34.640 a place for social and political movements. It always has been. 0:00:35.320 --> 0:00:37.760 This was our moment to that people know how we 0:00:37.760 --> 0:00:57.640 felt as a team. Welcome back all the smoke, my 0:00:57.800 --> 0:01:01.120 brother Jack, and we're back. We're back. We got a 0:01:01.120 --> 0:01:07.440 special guest today, Jamil Hill Wallace. Right. Yeah, I did 0:01:07.560 --> 0:01:11.720 change my last name, but professionally still Jamal Hill. Okay, 0:01:12.000 --> 0:01:16.920 thank you, congratulations, thank you. I appreciated it. Um. You know, 0:01:17.080 --> 0:01:18.679 we've been in it for a couple of months now, 0:01:19.120 --> 0:01:21.520 being married, and so far he hasn't wanted to divorce 0:01:21.560 --> 0:01:24.920 me yet. How did you guys need to heard? You 0:01:24.920 --> 0:01:27.240 both went to Michigan State. Did to start there or yes? 0:01:27.280 --> 0:01:29.160 And no, we both went to Michigan State. But I'm 0:01:29.200 --> 0:01:32.000 a cougar, so he is five years younger than me. 0:01:32.120 --> 0:01:38.640 So we actually met at home. We actually met at homecoming. Um. 0:01:38.680 --> 0:01:40.959 I had gone back to Michigan State because I was 0:01:41.120 --> 0:01:43.880 the grand marshal of the homecoming parade. And when your 0:01:43.880 --> 0:01:47.080 grandmar show, you gotta shake hands, kiss some babies, walk 0:01:47.120 --> 0:01:49.160 around and talk to people. And so we were. They 0:01:49.160 --> 0:01:51.960 were taking me around at different tailgates, and one of 0:01:52.000 --> 0:01:53.520 ones they took me to was when I was going 0:01:53.560 --> 0:01:55.680 to wind up at Anyway. It was the Black lum 0:01:55.760 --> 0:01:58.800 Not tailgate, and I saw a friend of mine that 0:01:59.200 --> 0:02:01.560 we didn't figure out obviously till I met him that 0:02:01.640 --> 0:02:03.400 it was also a friend of his. So I'm talking 0:02:03.400 --> 0:02:07.400 to this friend and he comes walking up and you know, um, 0:02:07.400 --> 0:02:09.239 we're kind of checking each other out and a little 0:02:09.280 --> 0:02:12.359 flirting going on, and so we kind of left it there. 0:02:12.639 --> 0:02:17.200 And later that night I saw him at at the 0:02:17.240 --> 0:02:20.040 Black Alumni party. UM DJ by mc light shout out 0:02:20.200 --> 0:02:23.920 and then so we saw each other, and it's one 0:02:23.919 --> 0:02:25.359 of those things where I was like, now, what are 0:02:25.360 --> 0:02:27.880 the odds that the fine guys saw the tailgate will 0:02:27.919 --> 0:02:31.200 also be here at the dance. So you know, I 0:02:31.240 --> 0:02:33.400 did that thing that women do is that I'm sure 0:02:33.440 --> 0:02:35.080 you gentlemen have been on the receiving end of this, 0:02:35.120 --> 0:02:36.920 but we'll give you a look like you've been bringing 0:02:36.919 --> 0:02:39.320 your ass over here, right. So I gave him that look. 0:02:39.360 --> 0:02:41.720 He came over and we talked and the rest, as 0:02:41.720 --> 0:02:44.480 they say history, you had. You had all my home 0:02:44.520 --> 0:02:47.120 girls at you at the wedding part I said, y'all 0:02:47.120 --> 0:02:49.440 oversee is having a good time. We were, Yeah, we 0:02:49.520 --> 0:02:52.000 had a great time. So some you know people you 0:02:52.080 --> 0:02:55.960 might know Carrie Championship with one of my bride's maids 0:02:56.080 --> 0:03:01.600 and the bachelorte party which was a few months trigger 0:03:01.639 --> 0:03:03.679 Tray as we call her in these streets. Amina who's 0:03:03.720 --> 0:03:08.359 saying who uh is coordinating producer for NBA Countdown on ESPN. 0:03:08.400 --> 0:03:11.480 So ESPN was well represented, uh in my bridal party, 0:03:11.480 --> 0:03:13.640 in my bride's maid or my maid of honor Kelly 0:03:13.639 --> 0:03:16.600 Carter who is a senior entertainment writer for The Undefeated. 0:03:16.680 --> 0:03:20.560 So we did the wedding which was incredible, had music 0:03:20.600 --> 0:03:24.079 Soul Child sing me down which was great. And then 0:03:24.200 --> 0:03:27.240 afterwards we went on a honeymoon for three weeks, so okay, 0:03:27.320 --> 0:03:30.520 we were gone, yeah to Kenya, Dubai, Abu Dhabi and 0:03:30.560 --> 0:03:35.080 the Maldives. So it was it was a dream wedding, 0:03:35.320 --> 0:03:38.400 dream honeymoon. And so we're still kind of riding good job, 0:03:38.960 --> 0:03:41.920 great job, great job. We always kind of hear obviously 0:03:41.920 --> 0:03:44.000 from a guy's point of view of you know, guy 0:03:44.080 --> 0:03:46.080 being in the spotlight. You're in the spot like, you 0:03:46.080 --> 0:03:49.480 have a tremendous platform. How does that dynamic work being 0:03:49.480 --> 0:03:54.800 married with a Well, it's interesting because, um so his 0:03:54.920 --> 0:04:01.720 nickname became oh boy, my old boy, because back when 0:04:01.720 --> 0:04:04.720 I was doing television every day on ESPN, my former 0:04:04.720 --> 0:04:07.720 co host Michael Smith shout out to him one of 0:04:07.720 --> 0:04:12.040 my dear friends. Uh. He nicknamed him that because there 0:04:12.120 --> 0:04:15.200 was like early on in our relationship. I tagged him 0:04:15.320 --> 0:04:17.000 in a photo and put it on Instagram, and he 0:04:17.040 --> 0:04:19.719 got like a thousand requests, and I was thinking, like, 0:04:19.760 --> 0:04:27.840 I'd be damn, I had these helps all over the 0:04:27.880 --> 0:04:31.400 meat right in front of all. But not only that, 0:04:31.640 --> 0:04:33.880 I felt like maybe and he didn't give me any 0:04:33.920 --> 0:04:36.240 indication to this, but just me just trying to realize 0:04:36.279 --> 0:04:39.560 that dynamic you talked about. I wanted to give him 0:04:39.600 --> 0:04:41.440 some time to kind of get used to that, because 0:04:41.640 --> 0:04:43.920 he didn't sign up to be dating somebody who was 0:04:43.960 --> 0:04:47.400 on TV every day and had a public profile. He 0:04:47.400 --> 0:04:49.600 didn't sign up for that intrusion it can sometimes make 0:04:49.640 --> 0:04:51.960 in your life. So after that he was just called 0:04:52.000 --> 0:04:55.080 old boy. Nobody knew his name. And one of the 0:04:55.120 --> 0:04:58.040 early tests, if you will, in our relationship was our 0:04:58.080 --> 0:05:01.240 first SPS. So we go to the SPS and a 0:05:01.360 --> 0:05:03.760 matter of fact, um, you know the SPS. You see 0:05:03.760 --> 0:05:07.400 how that environment is mass celebrities, athletes, you know who's 0:05:07.400 --> 0:05:10.160 who and all that, and he was just himself. He 0:05:10.240 --> 0:05:13.599 was just comfortable. Um, he wasn't fanning out, he wasn't 0:05:13.680 --> 0:05:17.719 acting different, you know, he didn't act insecure, he didn't 0:05:17.760 --> 0:05:20.039 like none of that stuff. Like. He was just real chill. 0:05:20.080 --> 0:05:24.440 And I was like, oh, ship, yeah, my wife, I'm good, 0:05:25.040 --> 0:05:28.240 I'm good. Well, you know that there's there's upside and 0:05:28.240 --> 0:05:32.000 downside with that, okay, because again suddenly you have a 0:05:32.120 --> 0:05:35.680 dual public persona, and it's certainly intensified now that you 0:05:35.720 --> 0:05:38.679 know we're married. Our our wedding was covered by essence 0:05:38.760 --> 0:05:41.600 and all this publicity, and then once people started to 0:05:41.640 --> 0:05:43.880 figure out that we were seriously dating, there would be 0:05:43.920 --> 0:05:46.520 blog posts about who is this dude that she's with 0:05:46.720 --> 0:05:49.520 and all that kind of thing. But he always handled 0:05:49.560 --> 0:05:52.559 it well and in stride. He's never you know, acting 0:05:52.560 --> 0:05:55.240 funny about it. I've certainly, um not necessarily been in 0:05:55.560 --> 0:05:58.200 full scale relationships, but I've certainly dated dudes that I 0:05:58.200 --> 0:06:00.560 could tell it was going to be a problem. And 0:06:01.040 --> 0:06:03.240 knowing a lot of women who are in television in 0:06:03.240 --> 0:06:06.080 this industry, they have definitely dealt with that where it's 0:06:06.120 --> 0:06:08.520 just every dude you can't bring to the like you 0:06:08.560 --> 0:06:16.480 just can't. You just can't, you know, because a bit right, 0:06:16.960 --> 0:06:22.560 you know what, maybe the half the party, but yeah, 0:06:22.600 --> 0:06:25.440 I mean, and just from a standpoint is that people 0:06:25.520 --> 0:06:28.840 have to know how to how to act in certain situations. 0:06:29.400 --> 0:06:33.440 And um, you know he always was just you know, 0:06:33.600 --> 0:06:35.680 he always batted a thousand when it came to that, 0:06:35.800 --> 0:06:38.240 so I knew, you know, it would work. And he 0:06:38.360 --> 0:06:43.160 you know, he never tripped about especially being in this business. Unfortunately, 0:06:43.200 --> 0:06:46.039 your salary, whether true or not true, it's always made public. 0:06:46.480 --> 0:06:49.559 And so it was never a thing whereas somebody joked 0:06:49.600 --> 0:06:51.200 and called him stamping or something like that, like he 0:06:51.240 --> 0:06:55.560 didn't give a damn about that or whatever. Look, there's 0:06:55.560 --> 0:06:57.279 a lot of dudes that would trade a place pretty 0:06:57.320 --> 0:07:01.000 much trade a place and be with a stampinias right now, 0:07:01.120 --> 0:07:05.039 you know what I'm saying. I never said that. I 0:07:05.120 --> 0:07:08.520 never said that. I've never said that. I never said 0:07:08.520 --> 0:07:14.679 that's never said that, never, Right, now that's so funny. 0:07:14.720 --> 0:07:20.000 Ship Man mad It's so funny. Ship Oprah, gotta high man. 0:07:20.000 --> 0:07:23.320 You gotta be careful, damn singleheadedly shut down the beef. 0:07:23.720 --> 0:07:27.160 I'm gonna keep I'm gonna keep saying. One day, Regina Hall, 0:07:27.640 --> 0:07:32.160 what that's your celebrity front and Regina, you see this? Okay, 0:07:32.200 --> 0:07:34.360 I'll put in a good word. I put in a 0:07:34.360 --> 0:07:37.160 good word for you. Heard that. It's on camera? All right? 0:07:38.840 --> 0:07:43.560 So where did your journalism journey start? Uh? Well, it's 0:07:43.560 --> 0:07:47.160 started really young. Um. Most times, you know, growing up, 0:07:47.200 --> 0:07:49.920 you change professions or things you think you want to 0:07:49.960 --> 0:07:52.520 do multiple times. You know, one week you might want 0:07:52.520 --> 0:07:54.360 to be a fireman and next week you might want 0:07:54.360 --> 0:07:57.360 to be something else. But I always wanted to do this, 0:07:57.560 --> 0:07:59.760 and I had a love of sports very early on. 0:08:00.200 --> 0:08:02.560 It always came very naturally. I don't remember ever not 0:08:02.680 --> 0:08:05.440 loving sports. So I was like the neighborhood tom boy 0:08:05.720 --> 0:08:09.120 and you know, out there playing baseball and football, flipping 0:08:09.120 --> 0:08:11.840 off garages with the guys and you know, just kind 0:08:11.840 --> 0:08:13.760 of hanging out. And when you're the girl in a 0:08:13.760 --> 0:08:16.040 company of like little boys or whatever, they're gonna always 0:08:16.040 --> 0:08:17.720 try to try you. You know what I'm saying. So 0:08:18.120 --> 0:08:20.400 when people would ask me years later, how is it 0:08:20.440 --> 0:08:23.920 that you're at this desk with this athlete and this 0:08:24.000 --> 0:08:26.440 man and you just are comfortable to hold your own 0:08:26.480 --> 0:08:28.480 I was like, well, it goes back to, you know, 0:08:28.520 --> 0:08:30.640 growing up in Detroit in the hood. It's like, y'all 0:08:30.640 --> 0:08:32.200 ain gonna take it easy on me just because I'm 0:08:32.240 --> 0:08:34.840 a girl. So I learned you talk about my mama, 0:08:34.840 --> 0:08:36.640 I'm talking about your mama right back. You know, you 0:08:36.760 --> 0:08:38.600 learned the roast and go back and forth. And so 0:08:38.640 --> 0:08:42.320 I was always comfortable, um being in that like sort 0:08:42.320 --> 0:08:44.760 of environment with boys and men. So I played a 0:08:44.760 --> 0:08:47.280 lot of sports, and I also love to read. I 0:08:47.320 --> 0:08:50.400 was a voracious reader, had a library card, love to write. 0:08:50.720 --> 0:08:59.120 UM wrote poetry short stories every city I live in. 0:08:59.240 --> 0:09:04.880 I was thinking about like I had one. It's not 0:09:04.960 --> 0:09:10.960 warn especially you know, you have to do a desimal 0:09:11.040 --> 0:09:14.959 system to get the books process process. So we don't 0:09:15.000 --> 0:09:18.480 nothing about what they called stuff when you put the 0:09:18.480 --> 0:09:20.080 plastic go over to make sure you don't break the 0:09:20.120 --> 0:09:23.200 library car, what's they called laminated. I even did that 0:09:23.240 --> 0:09:27.560 and still didn't use it. If freshs all get out, 0:09:27.960 --> 0:09:33.360 I bet your notebook was well I was. I was 0:09:33.360 --> 0:09:36.080 a neurse, so I love to read and I just 0:09:36.160 --> 0:09:39.320 had this love of language. And in high school I 0:09:39.400 --> 0:09:42.680 took a high school journalism class where I essentially wrote 0:09:42.679 --> 0:09:45.200 for the school paper, and it kind of started there. 0:09:45.400 --> 0:09:48.600 And the way that papers are high school papers were 0:09:48.600 --> 0:09:51.880 produced in Detroit then is you. They put a special 0:09:51.920 --> 0:09:55.400 insert in in the Detroit Free Press where once a 0:09:55.440 --> 0:09:57.600 month you could read all the high school newspapers in 0:09:57.600 --> 0:10:00.200 the city because they gave everybody one page. So we 0:10:00.240 --> 0:10:03.240 had to go to a professional news room to put 0:10:03.240 --> 0:10:05.600 our paper together. So the moment I walked in the newsroom, 0:10:05.640 --> 0:10:07.400 it was like love at first sight. I was like, oh, 0:10:07.480 --> 0:10:10.079 these people are crazy. They're like running around. It was 0:10:10.120 --> 0:10:12.880 all this energy and just the idea of being able 0:10:12.920 --> 0:10:16.520 to make a living covering something that I participated in 0:10:16.600 --> 0:10:19.000 and loved to watch. It just seemed like, hey, this 0:10:19.080 --> 0:10:22.560 is one plus one equal to So I couldn't do math. 0:10:22.640 --> 0:10:26.400 I was terrible as science, so literally there was nothing 0:10:26.400 --> 0:10:29.160 else I was meant to do. But this. They always 0:10:29.160 --> 0:10:31.880 asked you, the old guidance counsel, the question you know 0:10:32.080 --> 0:10:33.480 that you love it and have a passion for it, 0:10:33.480 --> 0:10:35.079 if it's something you would do for free, like y'all 0:10:35.080 --> 0:10:37.280 would play back. Y'all did play basketball at one point 0:10:37.320 --> 0:10:39.559 for free right, And so I felt the same way 0:10:39.559 --> 0:10:42.680 about writing a journalism. And I never expected to be 0:10:42.720 --> 0:10:44.920 on TV. That was never in the plan. I just 0:10:44.960 --> 0:10:48.240 wanted to write for newspapers. My dream job was actually 0:10:48.280 --> 0:10:50.560 the work of Sports Illustrated because when I was coming 0:10:50.640 --> 0:10:53.840 up that was working for the magazine and writing cover 0:10:53.960 --> 0:10:56.920 stories like I wanted to do that. And eventually I 0:10:56.920 --> 0:11:00.520 wound up at ESPN, and when I saw them checks 0:11:00.520 --> 0:11:03.320 look differently when you on TV, that's when I made 0:11:03.320 --> 0:11:05.880 the decision, like, you know what, this TV thing ain't 0:11:05.920 --> 0:11:08.720 bad after all. So it's just been an evolution. But 0:11:09.200 --> 0:11:11.400 at the base of it, I still do you know, 0:11:11.679 --> 0:11:13.559 all the things that I did as a writer. We 0:11:13.640 --> 0:11:16.640 talk to people, have good conversations. Hopefully they tell you 0:11:16.679 --> 0:11:19.120 something they didn't know, give you some insight and some introspection, 0:11:19.640 --> 0:11:22.920 and put history and what's happening now in the context 0:11:22.960 --> 0:11:25.080 for other people. So it just hasn't changed. It's since 0:11:25.120 --> 0:11:27.400 the methods are different because of technology. I think you 0:11:27.520 --> 0:11:30.440 touched on it a little bit, But tell us more 0:11:30.480 --> 0:11:33.360 about your upbringing, which made you someone who can hold 0:11:33.360 --> 0:11:35.840 your own someone who was outspoken, someone who's not afraid 0:11:35.880 --> 0:11:39.240 to hold your tongue. Tell me about your your childhood. Well, Um, 0:11:39.280 --> 0:11:41.920 in addition to you know, being in the neighborhood tomboy, 0:11:42.040 --> 0:11:46.240 I think another big component why some of the you know, 0:11:46.360 --> 0:11:49.600 challenges and just obstacles you'll generally face just being black 0:11:49.600 --> 0:11:51.840 in America, being a black woman in corporate America and 0:11:51.880 --> 0:11:54.920 making your way in media, is that you know, when 0:11:54.920 --> 0:11:57.319 you grow up and um, you know, we were on 0:11:57.400 --> 0:11:59.480 food stands for a good bit of my childhood, grew 0:11:59.520 --> 0:12:03.120 up poor. My parents are both recovering drug addicts. Uh 0:12:03.160 --> 0:12:06.880 so I saw a lot growing up, and so um, 0:12:06.960 --> 0:12:08.920 some of the problems I would face later, I could 0:12:08.960 --> 0:12:11.360 put them into perspective because you know I used to 0:12:11.559 --> 0:12:13.679 I made this joke all the time, especially when it 0:12:13.720 --> 0:12:15.960 came to the controversy I had with the President. And 0:12:16.000 --> 0:12:18.640 it's true. It's like, you know, Donald Trump tweaked me 0:12:18.640 --> 0:12:21.080 and saying that I should be fired and the White 0:12:21.080 --> 0:12:23.920 House color would be fired. It's like literally the six 0:12:24.040 --> 0:12:27.280 hundred thousands worst thing that's ever happened to me. Like 0:12:27.280 --> 0:12:29.720 it wouldn't even make the top team. So it's like 0:12:29.880 --> 0:12:33.280 I've damn about a tweet alright, cool, thanks for putting 0:12:33.720 --> 0:12:40.600 my name in your mouth. Appreciated. So it's just like 0:12:41.040 --> 0:12:44.720 that was not um. It was certainly created some adverse 0:12:44.800 --> 0:12:48.240 situations for me as a result, but it was just 0:12:48.640 --> 0:12:52.720 it's nothing compared to um, you know, seeing your mother 0:12:52.800 --> 0:12:56.400 go through you know, rehab, or seeing your your dad 0:12:56.520 --> 0:12:59.560 still have Heroin marks on his on his arm and 0:13:00.320 --> 0:13:02.520 and his fingers and stuff like. It's nothing compared with 0:13:02.600 --> 0:13:06.120 life experience. Yeah, exactly. And so you know, thankfully, by 0:13:06.200 --> 0:13:08.400 the grace of God, they've both they've been you know, 0:13:08.440 --> 0:13:10.760 in recovery for a long time, so that hasn't been 0:13:10.760 --> 0:13:12.840 an issue in a while. But the fact of the 0:13:12.880 --> 0:13:16.280 matter is is that coming from that environment, this other 0:13:16.320 --> 0:13:19.000 stuff is just like, yeah, it's hard, but it ain't 0:13:19.040 --> 0:13:23.560 that you know, it ain't even closed. So I think 0:13:23.640 --> 0:13:27.880 having that perspective has allowed me to not only approach 0:13:27.960 --> 0:13:30.200 this work with a bit of a chip on my shoulder, 0:13:30.679 --> 0:13:35.240 it's also as whatever accolades come when people love me, 0:13:35.559 --> 0:13:37.679 don't love me, hate me, whatever it is, I can 0:13:37.760 --> 0:13:39.920 kind of keep it all level because of some of 0:13:39.920 --> 0:13:41.880 the things that I've been through. That's why that's why 0:13:41.880 --> 0:13:44.560 I really want to know about your upbringing. Because I 0:13:44.640 --> 0:13:48.439 was telling them earlier. As athletes, we always get interviewed 0:13:48.480 --> 0:13:50.440 and acts of how we bring how we was brought 0:13:50.480 --> 0:13:51.679 up in the first thing you say, man, we grew 0:13:51.760 --> 0:13:53.360 up in the hood, we grew up poor, But we 0:13:53.440 --> 0:13:56.360 never hear that from women, and and we go through 0:13:56.400 --> 0:13:58.400 the same thing. It's the same thing, we just don't 0:13:58.400 --> 0:13:59.920 hear from women. So it's good to hear that from 0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:02.600 you because y'all go through the same things. The struggles 0:14:02.600 --> 0:14:04.520 in the ghet was the same. For what what male 0:14:04.559 --> 0:14:06.760 and women? You know what I'm saying, So it's good 0:14:06.800 --> 0:14:08.319 to hear that from you because women don't get to 0:14:08.320 --> 0:14:10.079 tell lay side of how they growing up and how 0:14:10.400 --> 0:14:12.840 growing up poor and the struggles affected them. But it 0:14:12.880 --> 0:14:16.800 made you tougher, And it's exactly. It's easy to see 0:14:17.000 --> 0:14:18.839 why you can carry yourself in a room full of 0:14:18.880 --> 0:14:20.800 men because of your It's easy to see that. Yeah, 0:14:20.800 --> 0:14:24.520 I mean, it is important that people understand that, you know, 0:14:24.600 --> 0:14:26.880 the cycle and the shame that comes with poverty. It's 0:14:26.960 --> 0:14:31.360 just it's really pervasive, and men and women may process 0:14:31.400 --> 0:14:33.600 it differently and may make us act and behave as 0:14:33.600 --> 0:14:36.080 adults in different way, but we're still left with the 0:14:36.120 --> 0:14:39.560 same generational trauma. I mean me and my husband, Uh, 0:14:39.840 --> 0:14:42.640 we often Joe because he's also um from the city 0:14:42.640 --> 0:14:46.320 of Detroit. UM. And while you know, economically he was 0:14:46.360 --> 0:14:48.600 a little bit better than me, we still grew up 0:14:48.640 --> 0:14:51.640 in the same kind of environments and that is one 0:14:51.680 --> 0:14:53.520 of the things that we kind of couldn't relate to 0:14:54.080 --> 0:14:56.040 with each other. But we talked about it all the time, 0:14:56.080 --> 0:15:00.040 about having hood PTSD, you know, and we live of 0:15:00.680 --> 0:15:03.680 you know, in the good part of l A and um, Yeah, 0:15:04.000 --> 0:15:05.840 I see him do certain stuff. I'll be like, babe, 0:15:05.840 --> 0:15:14.080 we don't right, you know, certain habits. And that's not 0:15:14.200 --> 0:15:16.640 to say you should never keep your hood senses or 0:15:16.680 --> 0:15:18.640 I like to call them, yeah, like spidy senses like 0:15:18.680 --> 0:15:22.720 hood senses about you. But it's amazing, Um, the things 0:15:22.760 --> 0:15:25.640 that you grow up in, how you normalize it then 0:15:25.680 --> 0:15:33.560 you realize later as a dog at all. We make 0:15:33.600 --> 0:15:35.520 it look we make it look We do it, man, 0:15:35.640 --> 0:15:37.400 we make it looking like it's not when we get 0:15:37.440 --> 0:15:39.960 because I mean similar background. Both my parents were you know, 0:15:40.000 --> 0:15:42.200 we're addicted to drugs at a young age. And I've 0:15:42.200 --> 0:15:43.920 seen it in front of me, you know what I mean. 0:15:44.000 --> 0:15:47.360 So and then face racism and and being by racial 0:15:47.440 --> 0:15:50.160 So by the time I'm getting to NBA and my 0:15:50.200 --> 0:15:53.360 ships on TMZ and whatever, and then furthering that like 0:15:53.520 --> 0:15:55.640 in this corporate world, like there's nothing you can show 0:15:55.680 --> 0:15:57.800 me that's bigger than what I've already dealt with, you 0:15:57.800 --> 0:15:59.960 know what I mean. So that's why we handle it gracefully, 0:16:00.000 --> 0:16:01.520 be handling it with ease. We do it our way. 0:16:01.680 --> 0:16:04.960 But they also don't understand, and I think it takes 0:16:04.960 --> 0:16:07.960 somebody from that background to get it, especially talking to 0:16:08.040 --> 0:16:11.880 YouTube gentlemen, is that you both came into such money 0:16:11.880 --> 0:16:14.440 and something fame right um, to some degree, I did 0:16:14.480 --> 0:16:17.000 too much later than you all did. You did when 0:16:17.000 --> 0:16:19.360 you were young. There's no blueprint for that. Like when 0:16:19.480 --> 0:16:22.040 you guys coming from where you came from and then 0:16:22.080 --> 0:16:25.080 suddenly you have all this stuff. People don't understand that 0:16:25.080 --> 0:16:27.200 that's an adjustment period, like you have to learn on 0:16:27.240 --> 0:16:29.600 the flat and there's nobody to teach you how to 0:16:29.640 --> 0:16:31.760 do it. They say experience is the best teacher. What 0:16:31.840 --> 0:16:34.800 It's true, but you you you fall a lot doing 0:16:34.840 --> 0:16:37.000 those experiences trying to learn. You go through a lot 0:16:37.360 --> 0:16:39.400 of frustration enough and downs trying to get through it. 0:16:39.440 --> 0:16:41.320 But experience is the best teacher, and that's normally how 0:16:41.360 --> 0:16:44.120 we learned through our own funk ups. You don't get taught. 0:16:44.160 --> 0:16:46.200 I mean, I know personally, like my first four or 0:16:46.240 --> 0:16:48.120 five years bay the end every summer I was broke, 0:16:48.840 --> 0:16:53.440 I mean, no question, but family because not just not 0:16:53.560 --> 0:16:55.880 having to not know what, Like I got a bunch 0:16:55.920 --> 0:16:57.680 of money right now, and I got a bunch of homeboys, 0:16:57.720 --> 0:16:59.960 and I got family everything for him at one time. 0:17:00.760 --> 0:17:02.280 I want to do everything. I want to take everybody 0:17:02.280 --> 0:17:04.879 one time. And like you said, from having nothing to 0:17:04.960 --> 0:17:07.639 having this, you're not knowing that. Okay, it's gonna run 0:17:07.680 --> 0:17:10.680 out one day. But you have people in your life, 0:17:10.800 --> 0:17:12.560 you know so much six six years of your career, 0:17:12.600 --> 0:17:14.400 send me weeb. They might come to me, like Luke, 0:17:14.440 --> 0:17:16.639 bro enough is enough. Some people don't have that, and 0:17:16.680 --> 0:17:19.120 that's the ones that end up broke. You know, as 0:17:19.160 --> 0:17:21.400 all athletes, a lot of us we have to learn 0:17:21.440 --> 0:17:24.040 from experience. We don't get taught nothing, you know what 0:17:24.119 --> 0:17:26.480 I mean. And you know, coming from our backgrounds, it 0:17:26.520 --> 0:17:28.600 makes us strong enough to deal with it. You know 0:17:28.600 --> 0:17:30.840 what I'm saying. People don't understand that walk us through 0:17:31.400 --> 0:17:35.480 the path to finally getting two ESPN. Yeah, it was 0:17:36.600 --> 0:17:40.240 it was very accidental, and it was it was, It 0:17:40.320 --> 0:17:43.280 was very accidental. It's it's two people I could think, 0:17:44.000 --> 0:17:46.119 or one person I could think and one phrase I 0:17:46.160 --> 0:17:48.760 could think. I could think Willis mcgahey and the word 0:17:48.760 --> 0:17:53.639 baby mama. I got to ESPN, so when I was 0:17:53.680 --> 0:17:56.040 in Orlando, I was a columnist there and it was 0:17:56.119 --> 0:17:59.840 my first columnist job. And I think I often like 0:17:59.880 --> 0:18:02.320 to give athletes, especially black athletes, I need them to 0:18:02.520 --> 0:18:05.359 sometimes understand the full scope of what the media looks like. 0:18:05.440 --> 0:18:07.320 Y'all could tell when y'all in the locker room, for sure, 0:18:07.560 --> 0:18:10.159 a boy who's covering you. But at that point, I 0:18:10.320 --> 0:18:14.080 was the only black female columnists at a major daily newspaper, 0:18:14.160 --> 0:18:17.480 at a daily newspaper, excuse me in North America. Noticed 0:18:17.520 --> 0:18:20.800 I didn't say America, North America. I was one out 0:18:20.800 --> 0:18:24.760 of three hundred and five. And you know that that 0:18:24.840 --> 0:18:27.520 picture is has a lot to do with, frankly, the 0:18:27.560 --> 0:18:30.000 reason that black athletes are covered with the way that 0:18:30.040 --> 0:18:32.919 they're covered. So I'm the singular one, and so a 0:18:32.920 --> 0:18:35.280 lot of the things I wrote it would get a 0:18:35.320 --> 0:18:37.679 lot of attention just because there was nobody else in 0:18:37.680 --> 0:18:40.119 the country that was doing what I was doing, and 0:18:40.400 --> 0:18:43.600 I created this idea to do this series car riding 0:18:43.600 --> 0:18:45.760 with where it was very basic. I get in the 0:18:45.800 --> 0:18:48.639 car with an athlete, we right around. I asked them 0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:52.800 some questions. They answered fun for everybody. Boom, we're sticking 0:18:52.840 --> 0:18:54.960 in the paper, real simple. Willis mcgay he was the 0:18:55.000 --> 0:18:57.399 first person that I got to agree to do this 0:18:57.520 --> 0:19:00.200 series with me. And I'm in the car with him 0:19:00.280 --> 0:19:02.480 and it's a videographer for Tygrapher in the back, and 0:19:02.600 --> 0:19:05.479 you know, we're just shooting the ship. And I just 0:19:05.560 --> 0:19:07.720 asked him because I knew he uh he had a 0:19:07.720 --> 0:19:09.880 couple of kids by different mothers, and I was just like, 0:19:10.600 --> 0:19:12.000 I was like, hey, Willis, what do you think would 0:19:12.040 --> 0:19:14.400 be worse having a white for a baby mama? Right? 0:19:14.440 --> 0:19:17.320 And he gave some funny answer and it was hilarious 0:19:17.359 --> 0:19:19.480 when I'm up making the paper. And then they got 0:19:19.480 --> 0:19:21.800 picked up by some blogs because they were like, well, 0:19:21.800 --> 0:19:23.919 it's he goes in on baby mama, because he did 0:19:24.080 --> 0:19:29.320 go in one. He was sure it was funny, but 0:19:29.400 --> 0:19:32.560 he didn't go in and you know, there was no outrage, 0:19:32.600 --> 0:19:34.760 but it just got picked up and the paper I 0:19:34.800 --> 0:19:36.560 was working for they weren't really used to that kind 0:19:36.600 --> 0:19:40.239 of viral traffic necessarily, and for something like that, you know, 0:19:40.320 --> 0:19:42.720 going viral. So next thing I know, I'm getting called 0:19:42.760 --> 0:19:48.000 into essentially the principal's office. And the editor, older white lady, 0:19:48.280 --> 0:19:51.840 was livid. She had never heard the term baby mama. 0:19:52.160 --> 0:19:54.560 So she was like, how dare you put this in 0:19:54.640 --> 0:19:57.199 the paper? And this is beneath our standard. I was like, 0:19:57.240 --> 0:19:59.520 the word baby mama again, this is a testament to 0:19:59.560 --> 0:20:04.200 how white newspapers generally have been and still are. So 0:20:04.240 --> 0:20:06.040 I'm like, man, if I get fired over the word 0:20:06.040 --> 0:20:08.080 baby mama, it's gonna be some ship. You know. It 0:20:08.160 --> 0:20:10.679 was kind of crazy. So but that was the column. 0:20:10.720 --> 0:20:15.320 Because it went viral. That executive at ESPN noticed and 0:20:15.359 --> 0:20:19.359 at the time, uh, skip Bayliss was moving on from 0:20:19.560 --> 0:20:23.240 writing for ESPN dot com. He was going to work 0:20:23.280 --> 0:20:26.040 on a show called co Pizza, which became First Take, 0:20:26.280 --> 0:20:29.919 and so, uh it just so happened this editor that 0:20:30.040 --> 0:20:32.600 saw my stuff or not this editor, this executive at 0:20:32.760 --> 0:20:34.920 ESPN and saw my stuff, knew a friend of mine, 0:20:35.240 --> 0:20:38.359 and so that friend um linked us up and we 0:20:38.400 --> 0:20:41.119 went to dinner. The executive's name was Keith clean Scales. 0:20:41.280 --> 0:20:44.440 He he said, hey, do you wanna come? And interview 0:20:44.480 --> 0:20:47.440 because we need a general columnist for ESPN dot com 0:20:47.480 --> 0:20:49.280