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Speaker 1: M hmm. Everything she does. That's because she never loses

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Speaker 1: sight of what's important. Putting on a military transport tonight. Hell, yes,

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Speaker 1: he's backing down on either side. We have a bona

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Speaker 1: fide crisis. We'll follow it up together, get to the truth.

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Speaker 1: I did what had to be done. Sports is being

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Speaker 1: a place for social and political movements. It always has been.

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Speaker 1: This was our moment to that people know how we

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Speaker 1: felt as a team. Welcome back all the smoke, my

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Speaker 1: brother Jack, and we're back. We're back. We got a

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Speaker 1: special guest today, Jamil Hill Wallace. Right. Yeah, I did

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Speaker 1: change my last name, but professionally still Jamal Hill. Okay,

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Speaker 1: thank you, congratulations, thank you. I appreciated it. Um. You know,

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Speaker 1: we've been in it for a couple of months now,

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Speaker 1: being married, and so far he hasn't wanted to divorce

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Speaker 1: me yet. How did you guys need to heard? You

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Speaker 1: both went to Michigan State. Did to start there or yes?

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Speaker 1: And no, we both went to Michigan State. But I'm

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Speaker 1: a cougar, so he is five years younger than me.

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Speaker 1: So we actually met at home. We actually met at homecoming. Um.

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Speaker 1: I had gone back to Michigan State because I was

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Speaker 1: the grand marshal of the homecoming parade. And when your

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Speaker 1: grandmar show, you gotta shake hands, kiss some babies, walk

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Speaker 1: around and talk to people. And so we were. They

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Speaker 1: were taking me around at different tailgates, and one of

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Speaker 1: ones they took me to was when I was going

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Speaker 1: to wind up at Anyway. It was the Black lum

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Speaker 1: Not tailgate, and I saw a friend of mine that

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Speaker 1: we didn't figure out obviously till I met him that

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Speaker 1: it was also a friend of his. So I'm talking

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Speaker 1: to this friend and he comes walking up and you know, um,

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Speaker 1: we're kind of checking each other out and a little

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Speaker 1: flirting going on, and so we kind of left it there.

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Speaker 1: And later that night I saw him at at the

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Speaker 1: Black Alumni party. UM DJ by mc light shout out

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Speaker 1: and then so we saw each other, and it's one

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Speaker 1: of those things where I was like, now, what are

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Speaker 1: the odds that the fine guys saw the tailgate will

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Speaker 1: also be here at the dance. So you know, I

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Speaker 1: did that thing that women do is that I'm sure

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Speaker 1: you gentlemen have been on the receiving end of this,

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Speaker 1: but we'll give you a look like you've been bringing

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Speaker 1: your ass over here, right. So I gave him that look.

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Speaker 1: He came over and we talked and the rest, as

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Speaker 1: they say history, you had. You had all my home

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Speaker 1: girls at you at the wedding part I said, y'all

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Speaker 1: oversee is having a good time. We were, Yeah, we

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Speaker 1: had a great time. So some you know people you

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Speaker 1: might know Carrie Championship with one of my bride's maids

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Speaker 1: and the bachelorte party which was a few months trigger

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Speaker 1: Tray as we call her in these streets. Amina who's

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Speaker 1: saying who uh is coordinating producer for NBA Countdown on ESPN.

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Speaker 1: So ESPN was well represented, uh in my bridal party,

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Speaker 1: in my bride's maid or my maid of honor Kelly

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Speaker 1: Carter who is a senior entertainment writer for The Undefeated.

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Speaker 1: So we did the wedding which was incredible, had music

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Speaker 1: Soul Child sing me down which was great. And then

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Speaker 1: afterwards we went on a honeymoon for three weeks, so okay,

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Speaker 1: we were gone, yeah to Kenya, Dubai, Abu Dhabi and

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Speaker 1: the Maldives. So it was it was a dream wedding,

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Speaker 1: dream honeymoon. And so we're still kind of riding good job,

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Speaker 1: great job, great job. We always kind of hear obviously

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Speaker 1: from a guy's point of view of you know, guy

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Speaker 1: being in the spotlight. You're in the spot like, you

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Speaker 1: have a tremendous platform. How does that dynamic work being

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Speaker 1: married with a Well, it's interesting because, um so his

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Speaker 1: nickname became oh boy, my old boy, because back when

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Speaker 1: I was doing television every day on ESPN, my former

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Speaker 1: co host Michael Smith shout out to him one of

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Speaker 1: my dear friends. Uh. He nicknamed him that because there

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Speaker 1: was like early on in our relationship. I tagged him

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Speaker 1: in a photo and put it on Instagram, and he

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Speaker 1: got like a thousand requests, and I was thinking, like,

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Speaker 1: I'd be damn, I had these helps all over the

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Speaker 1: meat right in front of all. But not only that,

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Speaker 1: I felt like maybe and he didn't give me any

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Speaker 1: indication to this, but just me just trying to realize

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Speaker 1: that dynamic you talked about. I wanted to give him

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Speaker 1: some time to kind of get used to that, because

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Speaker 1: he didn't sign up to be dating somebody who was

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Speaker 1: on TV every day and had a public profile. He

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Speaker 1: didn't sign up for that intrusion it can sometimes make

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Speaker 1: in your life. So after that he was just called

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Speaker 1: old boy. Nobody knew his name. And one of the

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Speaker 1: early tests, if you will, in our relationship was our

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Speaker 1: first SPS. So we go to the SPS and a

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Speaker 1: matter of fact, um, you know the SPS. You see

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Speaker 1: how that environment is mass celebrities, athletes, you know who's

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Speaker 1: who and all that, and he was just himself. He

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Speaker 1: was just comfortable. Um, he wasn't fanning out, he wasn't

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Speaker 1: acting different, you know, he didn't act insecure, he didn't

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Speaker 1: like none of that stuff. Like. He was just real chill.

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Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, ship, yeah, my wife, I'm good,

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Speaker 1: I'm good. Well, you know that there's there's upside and

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Speaker 1: downside with that, okay, because again suddenly you have a

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Speaker 1: dual public persona, and it's certainly intensified now that you

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Speaker 1: know we're married. Our our wedding was covered by essence

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Speaker 1: and all this publicity, and then once people started to

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Speaker 1: figure out that we were seriously dating, there would be

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Speaker 1: blog posts about who is this dude that she's with

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Speaker 1: and all that kind of thing. But he always handled

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Speaker 1: it well and in stride. He's never you know, acting

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Speaker 1: funny about it. I've certainly, um not necessarily been in

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Speaker 1: full scale relationships, but I've certainly dated dudes that I

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Speaker 1: could tell it was going to be a problem. And

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Speaker 1: knowing a lot of women who are in television in

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Speaker 1: this industry, they have definitely dealt with that where it's

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Speaker 1: just every dude you can't bring to the like you

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Speaker 1: just can't. You just can't, you know, because a bit right,

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Speaker 1: you know what, maybe the half the party, but yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, and just from a standpoint is that people

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Speaker 1: have to know how to how to act in certain situations.

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Speaker 1: And um, you know he always was just you know,

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Speaker 1: he always batted a thousand when it came to that,

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Speaker 1: so I knew, you know, it would work. And he

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Speaker 1: you know, he never tripped about especially being in this business. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: your salary, whether true or not true, it's always made public.

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Speaker 1: And so it was never a thing whereas somebody joked

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Speaker 1: and called him stamping or something like that, like he

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Speaker 1: didn't give a damn about that or whatever. Look, there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of dudes that would trade a place pretty

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Speaker 1: much trade a place and be with a stampinias right now,

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Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. I never said that. I

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Speaker 1: never said that. I've never said that. I never said

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Speaker 1: that's never said that, never, Right, now that's so funny.

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Speaker 1: Ship Man mad It's so funny. Ship Oprah, gotta high man.

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Speaker 1: You gotta be careful, damn singleheadedly shut down the beef.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna keep I'm gonna keep saying. One day, Regina Hall,

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Speaker 1: what that's your celebrity front and Regina, you see this? Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'll put in a good word. I put in a

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Speaker 1: good word for you. Heard that. It's on camera? All right?

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Speaker 1: So where did your journalism journey start? Uh? Well, it's

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Speaker 1: started really young. Um. Most times, you know, growing up,

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Speaker 1: you change professions or things you think you want to

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Speaker 1: do multiple times. You know, one week you might want

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Speaker 1: to be a fireman and next week you might want

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Speaker 1: to be something else. But I always wanted to do this,

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Speaker 1: and I had a love of sports very early on.

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Speaker 1: It always came very naturally. I don't remember ever not

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Speaker 1: loving sports. So I was like the neighborhood tom boy

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Speaker 1: and you know, out there playing baseball and football, flipping

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Speaker 1: off garages with the guys and you know, just kind

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Speaker 1: of hanging out. And when you're the girl in a

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Speaker 1: company of like little boys or whatever, they're gonna always

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Speaker 1: try to try you. You know what I'm saying. So

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Speaker 1: when people would ask me years later, how is it

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Speaker 1: that you're at this desk with this athlete and this

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Speaker 1: man and you just are comfortable to hold your own

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Speaker 1: I was like, well, it goes back to, you know,

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Speaker 1: growing up in Detroit in the hood. It's like, y'all

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Speaker 1: ain gonna take it easy on me just because I'm

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Speaker 1: a girl. So I learned you talk about my mama,

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Speaker 1: I'm talking about your mama right back. You know, you

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Speaker 1: learned the roast and go back and forth. And so

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Speaker 1: I was always comfortable, um being in that like sort

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Speaker 1: of environment with boys and men. So I played a

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Speaker 1: lot of sports, and I also love to read. I

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Speaker 1: was a voracious reader, had a library card, love to write.

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Speaker 1: UM wrote poetry short stories every city I live in.

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Speaker 1: I was thinking about like I had one. It's not

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Speaker 1: warn especially you know, you have to do a desimal

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Speaker 1: system to get the books process process. So we don't

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Speaker 1: nothing about what they called stuff when you put the

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Speaker 1: plastic go over to make sure you don't break the

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Speaker 1: library car, what's they called laminated. I even did that

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Speaker 1: and still didn't use it. If freshs all get out,

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Speaker 1: I bet your notebook was well I was. I was

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Speaker 1: a neurse, so I love to read and I just

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Speaker 1: had this love of language. And in high school I

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Speaker 1: took a high school journalism class where I essentially wrote

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Speaker 1: for the school paper, and it kind of started there.

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Speaker 1: And the way that papers are high school papers were

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Speaker 1: produced in Detroit then is you. They put a special

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Speaker 1: insert in in the Detroit Free Press where once a

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Speaker 1: month you could read all the high school newspapers in

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Speaker 1: the city because they gave everybody one page. So we

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Speaker 1: had to go to a professional news room to put

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Speaker 1: our paper together. So the moment I walked in the newsroom,

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Speaker 1: it was like love at first sight. I was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: these people are crazy. They're like running around. It was

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Speaker 1: all this energy and just the idea of being able

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Speaker 1: to make a living covering something that I participated in

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Speaker 1: and loved to watch. It just seemed like, hey, this

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Speaker 1: is one plus one equal to So I couldn't do math.

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Speaker 1: I was terrible as science, so literally there was nothing

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Speaker 1: else I was meant to do. But this. They always

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Speaker 1: asked you, the old guidance counsel, the question you know

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Speaker 1: that you love it and have a passion for it,

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Speaker 1: if it's something you would do for free, like y'all

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Speaker 1: would play back. Y'all did play basketball at one point

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Speaker 1: for free right, And so I felt the same way

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Speaker 1: about writing a journalism. And I never expected to be

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Speaker 1: on TV. That was never in the plan. I just

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Speaker 1: wanted to write for newspapers. My dream job was actually

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Speaker 1: the work of Sports Illustrated because when I was coming

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Speaker 1: up that was working for the magazine and writing cover

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Speaker 1: stories like I wanted to do that. And eventually I

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Speaker 1: wound up at ESPN, and when I saw them checks

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Speaker 1: look differently when you on TV, that's when I made

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Speaker 1: the decision, like, you know what, this TV thing ain't

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Speaker 1: bad after all. So it's just been an evolution. But

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Speaker 1: at the base of it, I still do you know,

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Speaker 1: all the things that I did as a writer. We

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Speaker 1: talk to people, have good conversations. Hopefully they tell you

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Speaker 1: something they didn't know, give you some insight and some introspection,

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Speaker 1: and put history and what's happening now in the context

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Speaker 1: for other people. So it just hasn't changed. It's since

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Speaker 1: the methods are different because of technology. I think you

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Speaker 1: touched on it a little bit, But tell us more

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Speaker 1: about your upbringing, which made you someone who can hold

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Speaker 1: your own someone who was outspoken, someone who's not afraid

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Speaker 1: to hold your tongue. Tell me about your your childhood. Well, Um,

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Speaker 1: in addition to you know, being in the neighborhood tomboy,

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Speaker 1: I think another big component why some of the you know,

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Speaker 1: challenges and just obstacles you'll generally face just being black

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Speaker 1: in America, being a black woman in corporate America and

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Speaker 1: making your way in media, is that you know, when

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Speaker 1: you grow up and um, you know, we were on

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Speaker 1: food stands for a good bit of my childhood, grew

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Speaker 1: up poor. My parents are both recovering drug addicts. Uh

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Speaker 1: so I saw a lot growing up, and so um,

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Speaker 1: some of the problems I would face later, I could

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Speaker 1: put them into perspective because you know I used to

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Speaker 1: I made this joke all the time, especially when it

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Speaker 1: came to the controversy I had with the President. And

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Speaker 1: it's true. It's like, you know, Donald Trump tweaked me

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Speaker 1: and saying that I should be fired and the White

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Speaker 1: House color would be fired. It's like literally the six

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Speaker 1: hundred thousands worst thing that's ever happened to me. Like

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Speaker 1: it wouldn't even make the top team. So it's like

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Speaker 1: I've damn about a tweet alright, cool, thanks for putting

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Speaker 1: my name in your mouth. Appreciated. So it's just like

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Speaker 1: that was not um. It was certainly created some adverse

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Speaker 1: situations for me as a result, but it was just

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Speaker 1: it's nothing compared to um, you know, seeing your mother

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Speaker 1: go through you know, rehab, or seeing your your dad

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Speaker 1: still have Heroin marks on his on his arm and

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Speaker 1: and his fingers and stuff like. It's nothing compared with

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Speaker 1: life experience. Yeah, exactly. And so you know, thankfully, by

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Speaker 1: the grace of God, they've both they've been you know,

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Speaker 1: in recovery for a long time, so that hasn't been

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Speaker 1: an issue in a while. But the fact of the

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Speaker 1: matter is is that coming from that environment, this other

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Speaker 1: stuff is just like, yeah, it's hard, but it ain't

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Speaker 1: that you know, it ain't even closed. So I think

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Speaker 1: having that perspective has allowed me to not only approach

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Speaker 1: this work with a bit of a chip on my shoulder,

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Speaker 1: it's also as whatever accolades come when people love me,

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Speaker 1: don't love me, hate me, whatever it is, I can

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Speaker 1: kind of keep it all level because of some of

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Speaker 1: the things that I've been through. That's why that's why

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Speaker 1: I really want to know about your upbringing. Because I

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Speaker 1: was telling them earlier. As athletes, we always get interviewed

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Speaker 1: and acts of how we bring how we was brought

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Speaker 1: up in the first thing you say, man, we grew

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Speaker 1: up in the hood, we grew up poor, But we

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Speaker 1: never hear that from women, and and we go through

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Speaker 1: the same thing. It's the same thing, we just don't

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Speaker 1: hear from women. So it's good to hear that from

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Speaker 1: you because y'all go through the same things. The struggles

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Speaker 1: in the ghet was the same. For what what male

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Speaker 1: and women? You know what I'm saying, So it's good

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Speaker 1: to hear that from you because women don't get to

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Speaker 1: tell lay side of how they growing up and how

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Speaker 1: growing up poor and the struggles affected them. But it

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Speaker 1: made you tougher, And it's exactly. It's easy to see

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Speaker 1: why you can carry yourself in a room full of

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Speaker 1: men because of your It's easy to see that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, it is important that people understand that, you know,

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Speaker 1: the cycle and the shame that comes with poverty. It's

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Speaker 1: just it's really pervasive, and men and women may process

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Speaker 1: it differently and may make us act and behave as

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Speaker 1: adults in different way, but we're still left with the

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Speaker 1: same generational trauma. I mean me and my husband, Uh,

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Speaker 1: we often Joe because he's also um from the city

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Speaker 1: of Detroit. UM. And while you know, economically he was

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Speaker 1: a little bit better than me, we still grew up

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Speaker 1: in the same kind of environments and that is one

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Speaker 1: of the things that we kind of couldn't relate to

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Speaker 1: with each other. But we talked about it all the time,

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Speaker 1: about having hood PTSD, you know, and we live of

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Speaker 1: you know, in the good part of l A and um, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I see him do certain stuff. I'll be like, babe,

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Speaker 1: we don't right, you know, certain habits. And that's not

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Speaker 1: to say you should never keep your hood senses or

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Speaker 1: I like to call them, yeah, like spidy senses like

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Speaker 1: hood senses about you. But it's amazing, Um, the things

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Speaker 1: that you grow up in, how you normalize it then

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Speaker 1: you realize later as a dog at all. We make

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Speaker 1: it look we make it look We do it, man,

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Speaker 1: we make it looking like it's not when we get

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Speaker 1: because I mean similar background. Both my parents were you know,

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Speaker 1: we're addicted to drugs at a young age. And I've

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Speaker 1: seen it in front of me, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: So and then face racism and and being by racial

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Speaker 1: So by the time I'm getting to NBA and my

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Speaker 1: ships on TMZ and whatever, and then furthering that like

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Speaker 1: in this corporate world, like there's nothing you can show

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Speaker 1: me that's bigger than what I've already dealt with, you

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Speaker 1: know what I mean. So that's why we handle it gracefully,

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Speaker 1: be handling it with ease. We do it our way.

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Speaker 1: But they also don't understand, and I think it takes

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Speaker 1: somebody from that background to get it, especially talking to

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Speaker 1: YouTube gentlemen, is that you both came into such money

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Speaker 1: and something fame right um, to some degree, I did

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Speaker 1: too much later than you all did. You did when

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Speaker 1: you were young. There's no blueprint for that. Like when

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Speaker 1: you guys coming from where you came from and then

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Speaker 1: suddenly you have all this stuff. People don't understand that

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Speaker 1: that's an adjustment period, like you have to learn on

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Speaker 1: the flat and there's nobody to teach you how to

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Speaker 1: do it. They say experience is the best teacher. What

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Speaker 1: It's true, but you you you fall a lot doing

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Speaker 1: those experiences trying to learn. You go through a lot

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Speaker 1: of frustration enough and downs trying to get through it.

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Speaker 1: But experience is the best teacher, and that's normally how

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Speaker 1: we learned through our own funk ups. You don't get taught.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I know personally, like my first four or

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Speaker 1: five years bay the end every summer I was broke,

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Speaker 1: I mean, no question, but family because not just not

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Speaker 1: having to not know what, Like I got a bunch

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Speaker 1: of money right now, and I got a bunch of homeboys,

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Speaker 1: and I got family everything for him at one time.

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Speaker 1: I want to do everything. I want to take everybody

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Speaker 1: one time. And like you said, from having nothing to

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Speaker 1: having this, you're not knowing that. Okay, it's gonna run

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Speaker 1: out one day. But you have people in your life,

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Speaker 1: you know so much six six years of your career,

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Speaker 1: send me weeb. They might come to me, like Luke,

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Speaker 1: bro enough is enough. Some people don't have that, and

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Speaker 1: that's the ones that end up broke. You know, as

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Speaker 1: all athletes, a lot of us we have to learn

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Speaker 1: from experience. We don't get taught nothing, you know what

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Speaker 1: I mean. And you know, coming from our backgrounds, it

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Speaker 1: makes us strong enough to deal with it. You know

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Speaker 1: what I'm saying. People don't understand that walk us through

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Speaker 1: the path to finally getting two ESPN. Yeah, it was

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Speaker 1: it was very accidental, and it was it was, It

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Speaker 1: was very accidental. It's it's two people I could think,

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Speaker 1: or one person I could think and one phrase I

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Speaker 1: could think. I could think Willis mcgahey and the word

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Speaker 1: baby mama. I got to ESPN, so when I was

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Speaker 1: in Orlando, I was a columnist there and it was

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Speaker 1: my first columnist job. And I think I often like

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Speaker 1: to give athletes, especially black athletes, I need them to

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Speaker 1: sometimes understand the full scope of what the media looks like.

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Speaker 1: Y'all could tell when y'all in the locker room, for sure,

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Speaker 1: a boy who's covering you. But at that point, I

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Speaker 1: was the only black female columnists at a major daily newspaper,

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Speaker 1: at a daily newspaper, excuse me in North America. Noticed

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Speaker 1: I didn't say America, North America. I was one out

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Speaker 1: of three hundred and five. And you know that that

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Speaker 1: picture is has a lot to do with, frankly, the

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Speaker 1: reason that black athletes are covered with the way that

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Speaker 1: they're covered. So I'm the singular one, and so a

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Speaker 1: lot of the things I wrote it would get a

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Speaker 1: lot of attention just because there was nobody else in

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Speaker 1: the country that was doing what I was doing, and

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Speaker 1: I created this idea to do this series car riding

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Speaker 1: with where it was very basic. I get in the

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Speaker 1: car with an athlete, we right around. I asked them

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Speaker 1: some questions. They answered fun for everybody. Boom, we're sticking

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Speaker 1: in the paper, real simple. Willis mcgay he was the

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Speaker 1: first person that I got to agree to do this

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Speaker 1: series with me. And I'm in the car with him

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Speaker 1: and it's a videographer for Tygrapher in the back, and

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Speaker 1: you know, we're just shooting the ship. And I just

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Speaker 1: asked him because I knew he uh he had a

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Speaker 1: couple of kids by different mothers, and I was just like,

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Speaker 1: I was like, hey, Willis, what do you think would

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Speaker 1: be worse having a white for a baby mama? Right?

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Speaker 1: And he gave some funny answer and it was hilarious

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Speaker 1: when I'm up making the paper. And then they got

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Speaker 1: picked up by some blogs because they were like, well,

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Speaker 1: it's he goes in on baby mama, because he did

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Speaker 1: go in one. He was sure it was funny, but

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Speaker 1: he didn't go in and you know, there was no outrage,

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Speaker 1: but it just got picked up and the paper I

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Speaker 1: was working for they weren't really used to that kind

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Speaker 1: of viral traffic necessarily, and for something like that, you know,

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Speaker 1: going viral. So next thing I know, I'm getting called

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Speaker 1: into essentially the principal's office. And the editor, older white lady,

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Speaker 1: was livid. She had never heard the term baby mama.

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Speaker 1: So she was like, how dare you put this in

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Speaker 1: the paper? And this is beneath our standard. I was like,

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Speaker 1: the word baby mama again, this is a testament to

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Speaker 1: how white newspapers generally have been and still are. So

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Speaker 1: I'm like, man, if I get fired over the word

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Speaker 1: baby mama, it's gonna be some ship. You know. It

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Speaker 1: was kind of crazy. So but that was the column.

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Speaker 1: Because it went viral. That executive at ESPN noticed and

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Speaker 1: at the time, uh, skip Bayliss was moving on from

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Speaker 1: writing for ESPN dot com. He was going to work

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Speaker 1: on a show called co Pizza, which became First Take,

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Speaker 1: and so, uh it just so happened this editor that

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Speaker 1: saw my stuff or not this editor, this executive at

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Speaker 1: ESPN and saw my stuff, knew a friend of mine,

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Speaker 1: and so that friend um linked us up and we

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Speaker 1: went to dinner. The executive's name was Keith clean Scales.

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Speaker 1: He he said, hey, do you wanna come? And interview

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Speaker 1: because we need a general columnist for ESPN dot com

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Speaker 1: and I think you know you'd be perfect for it.

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Speaker 1: Just come up to Bristol, So I said, all right, cool,

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Speaker 1: so I go and I got the job. And so

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Speaker 1: that's why I said this was It's Gay and Baby

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Speaker 1: Mama that got me into ESPN. ESPN was never my destination,

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Speaker 1: probably because I thought of it as a TV property,

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Speaker 1: but I originally went there as a writer. I did

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Speaker 1: not go there to do broadcast. So I just was

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Speaker 1: going to be writing columns and I would make some

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Speaker 1: occasional TV appearances. And sometimes ignorance is not just bliss,

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Speaker 1: but ignorance is helpful. And by that I mean this.

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Speaker 1: When I first started doing TV, appearing on like Outside

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Speaker 1: the Lines and then started doing Cold Pizza Slash first take. Um,

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Speaker 1: I didn't take it very seriously because I'm like TV,

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Speaker 1: who cares, you know? Um, print reporters thought that way

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Speaker 1: of TV at that time. It was like bloods and

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Speaker 1: crips like this would have been two thousand and six,

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Speaker 1: So two thousands and sixes when I got to ESPN,

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Speaker 1: and so early part of two thousand and seven when

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Speaker 1: I'm starting to do a little bit more TV, because

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Speaker 1: you know, the reason why I on Around the horn

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Speaker 1: you see so many columnists or former columnists, is because

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Speaker 1: we generate opinion, and so they want to put people

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Speaker 1: on TV who have things to say. And so, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I didn't take it seriously at all, and I was thinking,

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Speaker 1: that's why allowed me to always be myself on TV,

427
00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:04,520
Speaker 1: because I didn't know what I didn't know. So I'm

428
00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:06,400
Speaker 1: just on there kicking it as far as I'm concerned,

429
00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:08,600
Speaker 1: and I guess it kind of worked. And next thing

430
00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:11,520
Speaker 1: I know, um, other shows started to call to and

431
00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:16,480
Speaker 1: I'm on Jim Romans Burning, and then uh, sports reporters

432
00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:18,879
Speaker 1: Around the Hornet. So I was just going through the cycle.

433
00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:21,840
Speaker 1: You guys, no ideas, Um, you know, being there where

434
00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:23,240
Speaker 1: you're on one show and next thing you know, you're

435
00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:26,240
Speaker 1: on fifty shows. And so I look up a couple

436
00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:28,159
Speaker 1: of years into my deal and the TV is literally

437
00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:31,480
Speaker 1: fifty of what I do. And the thing that made

438
00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:35,080
Speaker 1: me realize that this is something I needed to put

439
00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:38,080
Speaker 1: all of my energy to into. Um, there are a

440
00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:40,040
Speaker 1: lot of changes going on at ESPN dot com. That

441
00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:42,360
Speaker 1: was one part of it. The other part was Matt

442
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:45,440
Speaker 1: Loward got paid. Uh in my first and second year

443
00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:48,920
Speaker 1: at ESPN, and he got twenty million dollars a year,

444
00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:52,080
Speaker 1: and I'm like, they actually would pay somebody on TV

445
00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:56,359
Speaker 1: that much money, you know, Matt lowar Man, he was

446
00:22:56,840 --> 00:23:00,440
Speaker 1: making bank and I just then I they're doing a

447
00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:04,520
Speaker 1: little more research and just picking up, you know, some

448
00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:07,440
Speaker 1: conversation at the water cooler when I whenever I would

449
00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:09,040
Speaker 1: go to Bristol because at that point I didn't have

450
00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:11,240
Speaker 1: to live there full time, and I was just like,

451
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:13,840
Speaker 1: met people really on TV making millions of dollars. This

452
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:18,240
Speaker 1: is crazy, Well now my focus must shift. So I

453
00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:20,639
Speaker 1: just made a financial decision. It was something I was

454
00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:24,119
Speaker 1: already comfortable with, so you know, why not try to

455
00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:27,399
Speaker 1: pursue it, you know, full time. And that led into

456
00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:30,040
Speaker 1: in part, um Mike and not linking up because we

457
00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:31,879
Speaker 1: he got to ESPN maybe a year or two before

458
00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:34,360
Speaker 1: I did, Um, but we met when we were both

459
00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:36,720
Speaker 1: print reporters. But that led to us linking up and

460
00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:39,480
Speaker 1: creating His and Hers and then Sports Center and the rest.

461
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:42,280
Speaker 1: As they say, it's history. Tell us a little bit

462
00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:46,160
Speaker 1: about your guys have launched together with the the six

463
00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:50,480
Speaker 1: o'clock Well, um, you know it is. It's a great

464
00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:54,160
Speaker 1: lesson just in the sense of uh, it goes along

465
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:57,160
Speaker 1: with grass is not always greener and also goes along.

466
00:23:57,280 --> 00:23:59,359
Speaker 1: Sometimes you don't know how good you have until us

467
00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:03,680
Speaker 1: already gone. And when we got the promotion to Sports

468
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:06,080
Speaker 1: Center one, it wasn't one that we asked for. They

469
00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:07,560
Speaker 1: came to us and asked us to do the six

470
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:10,520
Speaker 1: o'clock Sports Center. We were having a lot of fun

471
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:12,240
Speaker 1: doing his and Hers on all kind of crazy ship

472
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:15,879
Speaker 1: you shouldn't be putting on. Oh that was the Friday

473
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:19,040
Speaker 1: of the Boys in the hoods. Look still, I'm sure

474
00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:20,439
Speaker 1: I'm not going to do that. We want to do that.

475
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:22,840
Speaker 1: We want to do some skis with you for the podcast.

476
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:28,480
Speaker 1: I'm in. I got my sad card and everything, you know.

477
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:32,000
Speaker 1: I mean, we being on a noon at ESPN two

478
00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:34,640
Speaker 1: during that time because it was Mike and Mike First Take,

479
00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:37,520
Speaker 1: then US and at one point it was Sports Nation

480
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:42,040
Speaker 1: and highly questionable. So it was branded as the opinion

481
00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:46,920
Speaker 1: kind of fun network within the ESPN you know, family

482
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:49,600
Speaker 1: to the major leagues. That was the only the only

483
00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:55,000
Speaker 1: fun show. Everything else was just straight ahead sports crazy. Yeah.

484
00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:57,600
Speaker 1: I still, I'm pretty sure I'm the only person in

485
00:24:57,800 --> 00:24:59,879
Speaker 1: ESPN history to ever drink of forty on TV. That

486
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:07,320
Speaker 1: a real forty. You a legend for that alone. Man,

487
00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:10,879
Speaker 1: go to the store. I need a real forty because

488
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:14,240
Speaker 1: I gotta sell all this. But yeah, so we were

489
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 1: in our creative space. They let us do whatever we wanted,

490
00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:20,080
Speaker 1: and the audience like really loved it. It drew the

491
00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:23,040
Speaker 1: attraction of the folks that around Sports Center. They were

492
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:25,320
Speaker 1: looking at that time to kind of shake up Sports

493
00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:27,560
Speaker 1: Center a little bit, make it more personality branded. They

494
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:30,400
Speaker 1: started with s VP, giving him his own Sports Center,

495
00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:32,640
Speaker 1: and so now they wanted to try to recreate that.

496
00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:36,600
Speaker 1: But we created at six o'clock. So we go from

497
00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:39,919
Speaker 1: um studio in I'm not gonna tell you what we

498
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:43,639
Speaker 1: used to say in Still for but y'all. So we

499
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:45,800
Speaker 1: were from studio in which we used to affetually refer

500
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:49,720
Speaker 1: to as a project because it's like a box we're in.

501
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:52,080
Speaker 1: They're selling tapes out the truck, you know, getting this

502
00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:59,480
Speaker 1: daily TV ground studio in the car is to lookout

503
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:04,679
Speaker 1: on that first rock. That's it exactly, so you know.

504
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:08,639
Speaker 1: But we again we were giving total creative freedom and autonomy.

505
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:11,240
Speaker 1: We go from that to a seventeen million dollars studio

506
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:14,480
Speaker 1: cross campus in the new building the digital center, and

507
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:18,359
Speaker 1: it's got all the bells and whistles, super fancy. Overnight,

508
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:22,280
Speaker 1: our staff triples, we got all this, we got commercials

509
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:25,720
Speaker 1: um we're doing a media tour, like all the stuff

510
00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:27,640
Speaker 1: we said we wanted for his and hers, and it's

511
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:30,600
Speaker 1: like boom here. It is the worst job I've ever

512
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:32,560
Speaker 1: had at ESPN was doing a six and block sports

513
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:36,080
Speaker 1: and I was like, sometimes, you know, things are just

514
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:38,560
Speaker 1: not what you think they're gonna be. The you know,

515
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:42,639
Speaker 1: Wortsen is a legacy brand, it's the it's ESPNS baby.

516
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:45,959
Speaker 1: They care about They don't care about ship else. They

517
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:49,960
Speaker 1: care about Sports Center, right, is what built the network literally,

518
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 1: But it was not a fit for me at all

519
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:56,720
Speaker 1: because one, you know, it was a lot more people

520
00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:58,919
Speaker 1: that had a lot to say about our show and

521
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:00,800
Speaker 1: they didn't know what then that was talking about. And

522
00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:03,879
Speaker 1: that was a problem. Right. So creatively, we're used to

523
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:07,119
Speaker 1: being able to have our own space and autonomy and

524
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:11,080
Speaker 1: frankly we had earned that right and suddenly it's like,

525
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:13,760
Speaker 1: as Mike used to say all the time, we got

526
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:15,399
Speaker 1: all these cooks in the kitchen and don't nobody know

527
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 1: how to make a meal. And it was it was tough.

528
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:22,960
Speaker 1: So from before the first launch of the show happened,

529
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:25,560
Speaker 1: the first show launch happened, It's like we were having

530
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:30,200
Speaker 1: a lot of creative issues and those continued and persisted

531
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:32,800
Speaker 1: as we tried to figure out what exactly this show is.

532
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:35,480
Speaker 1: We rushed on the air. I mean, we started the

533
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:37,479
Speaker 1: day after the super Bowl, which is good because your

534
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:40,240
Speaker 1: ratings are gonna be phenomenal. But at the same time,

535
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:43,800
Speaker 1: when we started, we just didn't know what the show was.

536
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:46,520
Speaker 1: We had not been given the proper time to figure

537
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:48,919
Speaker 1: that out. You know, Scott Van Held, I mean he

538
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:51,640
Speaker 1: probably got six months or more. I think I'm probably underselling.

539
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:53,200
Speaker 1: I think you got more time than that to figure

540
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 1: out what that was. Even when they did get up

541
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:58,119
Speaker 1: really show, they got a lot of time to figure

542
00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:00,600
Speaker 1: out what it was before it hit air. And anybody

543
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:03,480
Speaker 1: in television would tell you what you are on day

544
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:06,960
Speaker 1: one versus what you are a year later. Totally. I'm

545
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:09,920
Speaker 1: sure even now this podcast is different than the first

546
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:12,720
Speaker 1: one that you did, right, that's just the evolution of

547
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:15,320
Speaker 1: how it works. But we got caught up in some

548
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 1: really unfortunate drama that had nothing to do with us,

549
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:22,640
Speaker 1: that was going on surrounding the narrative of ESPN. I mean,

550
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:26,959
Speaker 1: at this point, um, ESPN was about to experience their

551
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:29,639
Speaker 1: first layoffs and like god knows how many years it

552
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:33,359
Speaker 1: might have been their first layoffs ever and downside and

553
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:35,120
Speaker 1: you're not you guys know what this feels like. When

554
00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:37,760
Speaker 1: your salaries put out there, people have a lot to

555
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 1: say about what it is. And they were laying off people.

556
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 1: People knew what our salary was, and suddenly it became

557
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:47,800
Speaker 1: Michael Jamal, why you're playing these two clowns and laying

558
00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:51,000
Speaker 1: off all these people like at ESPN, and not to mention,

559
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 1: there was this bubbling narrative that ESPN was too political

560
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:59,280
Speaker 1: and too liberal, which frankly didn't start until more black

561
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:02,240
Speaker 1: people start getting shows and more women and they started

562
00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:04,400
Speaker 1: to becoming the face of the network. Then that ship

563
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:07,240
Speaker 1: started and so we became the post of children for

564
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 1: everything that was going wrong at the network. And this

565
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 1: is in our first couple of months. If you go

566
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:12,960
Speaker 1: back and look at some of the ship that was

567
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:15,560
Speaker 1: written about us, I mean, not only was some of

568
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:18,880
Speaker 1: it racist, but it was just like we were just

569
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:21,880
Speaker 1: caught up in this this narrative of bad headlines that

570
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:24,440
Speaker 1: we just could not get from a bunder, so all

571
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:27,240
Speaker 1: this is happening, and then, of course, you know, kind

572
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:30,160
Speaker 1: of the big explosion is when the Trump stuff happened.

573
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 1: And even though I eventually left Sports Center, I didn't

574
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:37,240
Speaker 1: leave Sports Center because of Donald Trump. I left Sports

575
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:40,880
Speaker 1: Center because I wasn't happy. And that happened before uh

576
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:46,520
Speaker 1: that situation ever even materialized. M mmmmmm. The intro workings

577
00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 1: I think. I mean I explained to people like, you know,

578
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 1: you look at ESPN, how you kind of look at Nike,

579
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:54,480
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like they're they're a set brand,

580
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 1: you know, so what happens in there sometimes good, sometimes bad,

581
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 1: sometimes political, sometimes bullshit, sometimes raised. But at the same time,

582
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:04,800
Speaker 1: it's just a constant cycle of whatever is going to

583
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:07,000
Speaker 1: happen almost the next man of kind of mentality, you

584
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:09,000
Speaker 1: know what I mean. So it may not always be

585
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 1: you know, Carrie, she she and now she's leaving, Like

586
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 1: why would she leave ESPN? You know, to to to

587
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 1: better herself, to spread her wings, to kind of really

588
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:19,320
Speaker 1: fully be her and be unfiltered because people don't realize

589
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:22,320
Speaker 1: how to the book you have to be at ESPN. Yeah,

590
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:27,760
Speaker 1: I mean, well it's a it's a massive platform and

591
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:29,920
Speaker 1: they have their hands and a lot of different stuff.

592
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:32,480
Speaker 1: And it's no question, you know, from a media standpoint,

593
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 1: it's the biggest brand in sports, and it's, you know,

594
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:38,440
Speaker 1: one of the biggest brands period. The Nike comparison is

595
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:42,960
Speaker 1: very appropriate. But even within that, there's a lot of limitations.

596
00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:45,520
Speaker 1: And you know, Carrie, I think she just kind of

597
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:50,800
Speaker 1: reached her ceiling um and it's a ceiling that, you know,

598
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:55,240
Speaker 1: frankly wasn't once she created, and she knew that, and

599
00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:58,200
Speaker 1: there's so much more she's capable of and can do.

600
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 1: And so it was time ago. And for a lot

601
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 1: of people, it's a destination job, but everybody's not destined

602
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 1: to be their long term and I certainly fit that

603
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:10,720
Speaker 1: category because when it was time for me to leave,

604
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:12,720
Speaker 1: I felt like it was I had done everything there.

605
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 1: I've been there twelve years and he's the best job

606
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:17,800
Speaker 1: I've ever had, the longest job I've ever had. The

607
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 1: journalists I was the day I came to campus in

608
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:24,240
Speaker 1: November in two thousand and six is not the journalists

609
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 1: I left, as in a good way, I grew more versatile,

610
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 1: all those things happened, but there was only so much

611
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:34,840
Speaker 1: I could do there, and I wanted to be able

612
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:38,920
Speaker 1: to create another spaces um. Esp is a very possessive company.

613
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 1: They're not gonna let you sit here, house here and

614
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 1: do a bunch of work for everybody else. And certainly

615
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:48,240
Speaker 1: given that the network was cracking down about anchors and

616
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:51,960
Speaker 1: people in the commentary having commentary outside of sports, touch

617
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:54,840
Speaker 1: on that, I mean, that's because that's the sports and

618
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:56,560
Speaker 1: or is the platform. And then when you start talking

619
00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:58,840
Speaker 1: about stuff other than sports that's still relevant to a

620
00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:00,840
Speaker 1: lot of us. The fact that you're a black woman

621
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 1: talking about it, yeah, well it was. It was crazy

622
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:06,120
Speaker 1: because we got accused of doing that a lot on

623
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:08,640
Speaker 1: sports and and we never did. I mean, we only

624
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:11,240
Speaker 1: talked about it when it made sense with the intersection

625
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:15,760
Speaker 1: of sports, new developments on Colin Kaepernick, um, you know,

626
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:19,560
Speaker 1: league business like things that kind of made sense because

627
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:22,720
Speaker 1: they were in the headlines, right. Uh. The interesting thing

628
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 1: is we were way more if you want to stay

629
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 1: crossing the line with that when we were on His

630
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:32,160
Speaker 1: and Hers. But it was received differently because I think

631
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:35,200
Speaker 1: the audience is different. The six o'clock audience for sports

632
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 1: and sports and an audiences period are trained to see highlights,

633
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:41,200
Speaker 1: they trained to watch Okay, this is the news of

634
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 1: the day, and that's what I want to hear about.

635
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:45,360
Speaker 1: But His and Hers was a commentary show where we

636
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:47,320
Speaker 1: talked about whatever. I mean, we we had like a

637
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:49,600
Speaker 1: ten minute conversation on the air about Philando can Steel

638
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:52,880
Speaker 1: when that happened, Um, Trayvon Martin, I mean we we

639
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:56,400
Speaker 1: talked about all these issues because rightly, yeah, real ship

640
00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 1: and athletes were talking about them too. They didn't like

641
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:02,240
Speaker 1: they Yeah, I mean a lot of I know it

642
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:05,120
Speaker 1: made a lot of networks probably uncomfortable. But when you

643
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:09,120
Speaker 1: have Lebron James and the Miami Heat wearing hoodies because

644
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:13,320
Speaker 1: they are so affected by this what happened to Traymon Martin.

645
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:15,720
Speaker 1: The fact that you know, you guys have kids, and

646
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:18,480
Speaker 1: you're well off, and you know you live in good neighborhoods.

647
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:20,360
Speaker 1: And if you're a child is walking down the street

648
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:22,640
Speaker 1: and they don't know that's Matt Barnes, this child, well

649
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:24,760
Speaker 1: that's your child. It might be some ship if the

650
00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:26,560
Speaker 1: police roll up, or if a neighbor sees them in

651
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:30,000
Speaker 1: that neighborhood. So all the guys could relate to what

652
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:32,800
Speaker 1: happened and just growing up, We've seen those cases a

653
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 1: thousand times, right so we thought it was pertinent to

654
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:41,680
Speaker 1: talk about. But there was this bubbling sentiment. Um. Some

655
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:43,600
Speaker 1: of it came from fans, some of it came from

656
00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:46,600
Speaker 1: inside the building, is that they didn't want those messy

657
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 1: intersections to be discussed. Now. For me, I'm all about

658
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:56,200
Speaker 1: the messy intersections, right, And so I didn't ESPN is

659
00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:58,480
Speaker 1: gonna be who they are and I needed to be

660
00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:01,600
Speaker 1: who I am. And so I felt like I was

661
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:04,040
Speaker 1: missing out on a lot of conversations because of that.

662
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:06,600
Speaker 1: Um that there were certain things I can't talk about

663
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:10,359
Speaker 1: with the honesty, the brutal honesty in which they needed

664
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:13,319
Speaker 1: to be discussed. I don't want to compromise ship right,

665
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:16,600
Speaker 1: nothing at all now. And you know, keeping it all

666
00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:19,440
Speaker 1: away real. When you have enough money, you can do that,

667
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:23,000
Speaker 1: you can make that decision. And so um. When I

668
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:27,319
Speaker 1: left in in September of eighteen, I went to The

669
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:32,160
Speaker 1: Atlantic with a very purposeful mindset. Is that they are

670
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:37,680
Speaker 1: a political magazine. They loved my writing and they wanted

671
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:41,120
Speaker 1: somebody who wanted to cover the mess of sports, and

672
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:43,960
Speaker 1: that's what I wanted to write about. And esp is

673
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:46,520
Speaker 1: in a different position. I mean, they're in partnership with

674
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:49,040
Speaker 1: a lot of the leagues that they covered, and so

675
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:51,960
Speaker 1: you know, it's certain things that they're not gonna be

676
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:54,920
Speaker 1: able to say. I mean that nobody from the corner

677
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:57,560
Speaker 1: office ever came down to me and said, hey, you

678
00:34:57,600 --> 00:34:59,880
Speaker 1: can't say this about the NFL, this about the NBA.

679
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:03,000
Speaker 1: But as a as the old adage goes, was understood,

680
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:07,879
Speaker 1: need not be said. And so um with that business relationship,

681
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:11,120
Speaker 1: you just with certain subjects you kind of have to

682
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:13,719
Speaker 1: walk a fine life. I don't have to worry about

683
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:15,640
Speaker 1: only to cut you off. But one thing about Spen,

684
00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:19,600
Speaker 1: what I've learned, like if they pick and choose or

685
00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:21,279
Speaker 1: what they wanted, what bullshit they want to deal with?

686
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:24,000
Speaker 1: Perfect perfect example with me. I used to post a

687
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:26,160
Speaker 1: lot of ship on my social media that I that

688
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:28,839
Speaker 1: I heard that higher rubs didn't like. But as soon

689
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:31,360
Speaker 1: as I get into an argument with with Wiggins and

690
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:33,920
Speaker 1: his family and it's beneficial for the station, they take

691
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:35,600
Speaker 1: it off my feet and throw it all over all

692
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:37,480
Speaker 1: the shows. So I didn't like that ship. You know

693
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:39,360
Speaker 1: what it's like, you don't support the ship that you

694
00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:41,239
Speaker 1: want to support. You know what I'm saying, support me

695
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:42,919
Speaker 1: full time. And that's one thing I didn't like about

696
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:48,239
Speaker 1: everything wasn't genuine there. Yeah, it is. It's definitely some

697
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:51,520
Speaker 1: of the criticism you might receive internally and some of

698
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:53,840
Speaker 1: the things that may happen, it's arbitrary. It's on a

699
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:57,279
Speaker 1: case by case basis. Um, as you said, when some

700
00:35:57,360 --> 00:35:59,839
Speaker 1: things are beneficial to the network's fine. When they're not,

701
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:02,480
Speaker 1: it is what it is. I mean, I couldn't help

702
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:07,440
Speaker 1: but notice um during the National Championship game between you know,

703
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:11,840
Speaker 1: L s U and M and uh clips I've just

704
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:14,160
Speaker 1: liked on their name, they of course showed the president

705
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:18,440
Speaker 1: right and some commentary there or whatever, and I was like, Okay,

706
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:21,680
Speaker 1: we're having to stick in the sports, you know, I mean,

707
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:23,279
Speaker 1: you're not saying that. And I get it. It It like

708
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 1: a president goes to a game. It's it's a it's

709
00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:29,200
Speaker 1: a thing. But I was thinking to myself, I wonder

710
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:31,440
Speaker 1: if KLi Kaepernick were in the building Washington game where

711
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:33,680
Speaker 1: they have ever shown a camera shot of Collie Kaepernick,

712
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:38,000
Speaker 1: probably not, probably not arobably, they wouldn't. They probably wouldn't

713
00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:41,359
Speaker 1: have done that. I wouldn't want to be in that stadium. So,

714
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:45,719
Speaker 1: and the thing is, if you're gonna address and talk

715
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:49,640
Speaker 1: about Colin Kaepernick, you have to talk about why he's kneeling,

716
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:53,040
Speaker 1: what is he protesting? And when you start getting into

717
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:57,719
Speaker 1: those issues, people start sweating, People get real uncomfortable. And

718
00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:00,279
Speaker 1: even with some of the things that Donald Trump said

719
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:04,320
Speaker 1: about NFL players and and right, I mean, you gotta

720
00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:08,640
Speaker 1: you have to go there. And I think under the

721
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:11,600
Speaker 1: political climate in this country, it just put ESPN in

722
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:16,239
Speaker 1: a very tough position, and it's been some awkwardness. I mean,

723
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:19,719
Speaker 1: I think it's been some positives and some fails on

724
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:22,760
Speaker 1: their parts. So I just be real curious to see

725
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:27,080
Speaker 1: how they adjust if there is a new president or fromnmore,

726
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:29,520
Speaker 1: how they have to kind of double down on what

727
00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:34,240
Speaker 1: they've been doing with being very hotness and restrictive about

728
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:38,480
Speaker 1: their personalities, talking about politics and even in some instances

729
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:42,200
Speaker 1: when sports and politics mix, allowing them to stay in

730
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:46,759
Speaker 1: certain gray areas so as not to offend. And you

731
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:48,960
Speaker 1: know this, you can't have no kind of real conversation

732
00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:52,399
Speaker 1: if you worry about who's gonna be offended. Cannot Yeah,

733
00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:56,320
Speaker 1: that was himself and ship though, because I know a

734
00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:59,239
Speaker 1: lot of times my homeboys be on the run and

735
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:01,680
Speaker 1: they is having birthday parties, they don't go because they

736
00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:03,560
Speaker 1: don't want the fans to catch them at their kids party.

737
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:05,200
Speaker 1: All this ship you got going on, You want to

738
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:07,320
Speaker 1: show up to the National Championship game. Put the whole

739
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:10,399
Speaker 1: arena in danger knowing these people after you, bro, that's

740
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:12,920
Speaker 1: some selfish ass ship. The thing is, that's selfish and

741
00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:15,880
Speaker 1: that he came to the arena and showing people that

742
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:18,800
Speaker 1: you that's some selfish ship. He did the prim walk

743
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:23,080
Speaker 1: across the field, that's selfish ship. That's some selfish ship.

744
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:24,560
Speaker 1: Then as soon as he lined up with his girl,

745
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:28,120
Speaker 1: she broke her hand. That's selfish, you know, after you bro,

746
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:29,840
Speaker 1: and you want to come to the game, come on,

747
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:31,960
Speaker 1: don't do that. But that's some selfish ship. And everybody

748
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:34,160
Speaker 1: sucked up. That's some selfish ship. You know how to

749
00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:35,640
Speaker 1: go on the hood. You want to run your kid

750
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:37,279
Speaker 1: got a party, don't show up to the party. You

751
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:38,840
Speaker 1: don't want the faster run up in the party and

752
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:41,680
Speaker 1: sunk up the whole party. You know he did that

753
00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:47,480
Speaker 1: because where he was, being in a more friendly environment,

754
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:51,600
Speaker 1: being in Louisiana, being amongst those fans. The church put

755
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:58,799
Speaker 1: my hand right about it. At home. A while back,

756
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:00,759
Speaker 1: we had Stephen A. Smith on the show, and then

757
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:03,839
Speaker 1: we had aired some highlights of the interview on our

758
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:06,920
Speaker 1: social media post and you commented, uh and kind of

759
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:08,719
Speaker 1: went back and forth with him for a minute. Tell

760
00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:12,280
Speaker 1: me what that was about and you guys relationship. So, um,

761
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:14,160
Speaker 1: steven A, somebody give a lot of credit to on

762
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:16,360
Speaker 1: a lot of fronts. I think it's fair to say

763
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:20,279
Speaker 1: he's the face of ESPN, and um, you know, you

764
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:23,240
Speaker 1: think about somebody like say Stewart Scott or or even

765
00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:26,920
Speaker 1: other icons that have become that. To have a you know,

766
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:29,080
Speaker 1: a black man that is the face of this network

767
00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:33,279
Speaker 1: is a huge accomplishment. And if it's true that he's

768
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:37,840
Speaker 1: the highest paid ESM and personality ever, equally big you

769
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:41,719
Speaker 1: know accomplishment for him, especially considering at one time he

770
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:43,920
Speaker 1: was kind of on the outside, you know, with the networks.

771
00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:46,760
Speaker 1: So for him to have gone from that to this

772
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:51,200
Speaker 1: is pretty special and spectacular. And when he had his

773
00:39:51,239 --> 00:39:55,239
Speaker 1: own show, quite frankly, stephen A was very purposeful and

774
00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:59,640
Speaker 1: putting black journalists on the show. Yeah, he he. He

775
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:03,080
Speaker 1: gave a lot of us a platform, uh to talk

776
00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:07,480
Speaker 1: about our perspective, our opinions and just get experienced doing television.

777
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:11,040
Speaker 1: And I was one of the people that regularly appeared

778
00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:14,600
Speaker 1: on quite frankly, but so I'm always grateful for him

779
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:17,080
Speaker 1: for giving me that opportunity and for what he's meant

780
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:21,280
Speaker 1: in this business in terms of, you know, black journalism.

781
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:25,520
Speaker 1: So as they say, reasonable minds can differ. And I've

782
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:28,040
Speaker 1: heard some of the things that he said about Colin Kaepernick.

783
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:31,200
Speaker 1: I've been asked about it a lot. I've generally resisted,

784
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:34,480
Speaker 1: UM commenting on it. I don't really like to comment

785
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:37,479
Speaker 1: on other people's opinions for the most part, especially people

786
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:39,400
Speaker 1: I used to work with. It could get awkward and

787
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:42,680
Speaker 1: somebody might take it personally and all that kind of stuff.

788
00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:46,280
Speaker 1: And yet, nevertheless, my ass did not follow my own advice.

789
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:49,959
Speaker 1: And I when I saw what he said the clip

790
00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:54,440
Speaker 1: that you showed on your show, UM, I was surprised

791
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:58,360
Speaker 1: on a lot of levels because Steven they may not

792
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:00,560
Speaker 1: still consider himself a journalist, as I get it because

793
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:02,520
Speaker 1: when I did TV, outn't either because I'm like, look,

794
00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:05,120
Speaker 1: I'm not going in the locker rooms anymore. I'm not

795
00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:07,960
Speaker 1: necessarily interviewing people outside of them being on my show.

796
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:11,560
Speaker 1: I am not I become friends with some athletes, like

797
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:13,680
Speaker 1: I'm not in that traditional role that I used to

798
00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:15,839
Speaker 1: be in when I was a newspaper reporter, and so

799
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:18,200
Speaker 1: me and me and Mike USA always joked that we

800
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:21,480
Speaker 1: were former journalists, right even though that's how people size,

801
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:23,680
Speaker 1: because we realized we were entertainers because we were on

802
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:26,319
Speaker 1: TV every day. And so maybe he sees himself in

803
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:30,839
Speaker 1: more of a hybrid role, but it just seemed like

804
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:34,799
Speaker 1: a line was somewhere a cross by him admitting that

805
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:41,320
Speaker 1: he had spoken to or through back channels, got Conline

806
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:45,040
Speaker 1: Kaepernick a workout or helped in that calls him and

807
00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:47,799
Speaker 1: jay Z and I just thought that was that was

808
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:51,080
Speaker 1: really interesting because on one end, the network you represent

809
00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:52,359
Speaker 1: it is talking about how they want to stay out

810
00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:54,919
Speaker 1: of politics, and then on the other end, you're doing this,

811
00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:59,480
Speaker 1: so you're sort of like inserting yourself and creating the news.

812
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:02,920
Speaker 1: You know. It's just that's not typically the role that

813
00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:06,760
Speaker 1: we play. And I'm not here to play Stephen's journalism professor.

814
00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:10,200
Speaker 1: But I was always under the impression that was somewhat

815
00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:13,279
Speaker 1: of a no no to do um. So there was

816
00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:16,439
Speaker 1: that part of it. And then considering what he has

817
00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:20,359
Speaker 1: said about Kylie Kaepernick, then I have to wonder how

818
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:23,040
Speaker 1: personal this is to you, because if you felt like

819
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:26,600
Speaker 1: it's kind of like, uh, if you you know, to say,

820
00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:28,840
Speaker 1: in a in a in a dating situation, if you

821
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:30,719
Speaker 1: hook one of your homeboys up with your home girl,

822
00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:35,080
Speaker 1: well you're just like and you vouch for him where her?

823
00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:36,920
Speaker 1: You like, not he a good dude? I know what

824
00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:38,719
Speaker 1: you heard blah blah blah blah blah. And then he

825
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:41,719
Speaker 1: show up and he acted fool. You're like, damn dog,

826
00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:43,920
Speaker 1: like you're gonna be mad. And that's not to say

827
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:46,440
Speaker 1: that Karlie Kaepernick did anything wrong, but he kind of

828
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:49,080
Speaker 1: sounded that that like, oh, I went through these back channels,

829
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:51,040
Speaker 1: hooked you up with this job, and then you show

830
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:53,160
Speaker 1: up in the couture get a shirt, embarrassing me in

831
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:57,520
Speaker 1: front of my favor So it's just sort of like,

832
00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:03,759
Speaker 1: you know, I just thought that that contaminated his opinion personally,

833
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:07,680
Speaker 1: and it um you know, I I generally kind of

834
00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:11,120
Speaker 1: disagree with his perspective about Colin not wanting to play

835
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:13,879
Speaker 1: and even the whole thing with the shirt and and

836
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:16,200
Speaker 1: really that trial was nothing but a set up. I mean,

837
00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:18,759
Speaker 1: it was nothing but a set up. You know. It's

838
00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:21,560
Speaker 1: like the the NFL was just looking for a way

839
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:24,480
Speaker 1: and excuse to point to something that they can say no,

840
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:26,560
Speaker 1: he doesn't really want it. And I can tell you

841
00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:28,279
Speaker 1: this as a forty Nighties fan. I watched all the

842
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:32,600
Speaker 1: college Kaepernick's professional games, all of them. He looks in

843
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:35,120
Speaker 1: better shape now that he did when he was playing.

844
00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:39,040
Speaker 1: And he's done. Uh, I mean, he was never out

845
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:42,160
Speaker 1: of shape, but I can see the body transformation that

846
00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:44,960
Speaker 1: he does. He's done. Why was somebody who has not

847
00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:48,160
Speaker 1: played in a few years keep themselves in that tip

848
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:50,080
Speaker 1: top of a shape if they were not intent on

849
00:43:50,120 --> 00:43:53,080
Speaker 1: play the game? He really does and people have to

850
00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:56,399
Speaker 1: understand something was taken from him. He didn't get hurt

851
00:43:56,560 --> 00:44:00,719
Speaker 1: for no reason. He didn't get hurt, he didn't get cut.

852
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:02,759
Speaker 1: He didn't you know. I mean he eventually got cut,

853
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:05,319
Speaker 1: but you know why he got cut. But like he

854
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:09,800
Speaker 1: was not the one who uh engineered his own demise.

855
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:13,960
Speaker 1: He got essentially his career taken from him because NFL

856
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:17,200
Speaker 1: owners are cowards, and it's just that some reasons they're

857
00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:20,680
Speaker 1: cowards and Donald Trump those are the reasons. And so

858
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:25,600
Speaker 1: when I saw you know him sort of um, you know,

859
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:29,720
Speaker 1: going off about him not wanting it and the Konta

860
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:31,560
Speaker 1: Kitty shirt, like he could have showed up and what

861
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:33,480
Speaker 1: you got old they weren't letting him back in the league.

862
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:35,839
Speaker 1: These people have had his number for three years, they

863
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:37,719
Speaker 1: have not called, they have not brought him in. If

864
00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:39,360
Speaker 1: they were serious, they would have brought him to the

865
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:42,839
Speaker 1: team facility to work out. And then that's how it's

866
00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:45,239
Speaker 1: normally done. The NFL doesn't set up to try out

867
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:48,080
Speaker 1: outside of like the combine, but they don't do that.

868
00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:50,880
Speaker 1: And so it was just a farce from the beginning.

869
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:54,319
Speaker 1: And so this idea that Colin Kaepernick should have, you know,

870
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:56,640
Speaker 1: kissed the NFL's asked more to get back in. It

871
00:44:56,719 --> 00:44:59,560
Speaker 1: was like, so you're asking somebody who decided to take

872
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:03,280
Speaker 1: a knee to protest racial and social injustice to suddenly

873
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:05,960
Speaker 1: kiss the ass of the same people who just took

874
00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:11,000
Speaker 1: his career away. It wasn't. It doesn't work that way, right, So, um,

875
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:14,400
Speaker 1: we disagree. But I'm of the opinion I saw this

876
00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:16,960
Speaker 1: a lot of this on social media, people calling Stephen

877
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:19,640
Speaker 1: a sellouts and all that kind of stuff. That was

878
00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:22,120
Speaker 1: to me over the line. I know what Stephen has

879
00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:24,239
Speaker 1: been able to do for other black journalists, and I

880
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:26,759
Speaker 1: was not in any way insinuating he was that. I

881
00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:29,759
Speaker 1: just disagree with what he said. Now I didn't want

882
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:32,520
Speaker 1: it to become some big social media thing, despite the

883
00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:35,200
Speaker 1: fact that's where I originally commented, And so when he

884
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:38,680
Speaker 1: commented back, I made sure to say, hey, bro, I'm

885
00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:41,160
Speaker 1: taking this off Twitter. I'll call you that way we

886
00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:44,000
Speaker 1: can have a conversation and not have some you know,

887
00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:47,560
Speaker 1: full fight in open view, because there's nothing social media

888
00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:50,960
Speaker 1: loves more than to not just see two you know,

889
00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:54,200
Speaker 1: personalities go back and forth, but two black people fight,

890
00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:56,880
Speaker 1: and I wasn't about to do that, even though I

891
00:45:56,920 --> 00:46:00,680
Speaker 1: disagree with his position. So you know, I call I

892
00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:02,640
Speaker 1: did call him. I left a message I love him,

893
00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:05,239
Speaker 1: a text I have yet to hear back when when

894
00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:08,759
Speaker 1: when he said that. Honestly, in my mind, I'm thinking like, Okay,

895
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:10,680
Speaker 1: as much as you're killing him, you're trying to help

896
00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:12,279
Speaker 1: him get a job. Like when he said it, I'm

897
00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:14,279
Speaker 1: thinking like that don't even sound right. You know what

898
00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:16,879
Speaker 1: I'm saying that I was waiting because we wanted him

899
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:19,719
Speaker 1: on the show too, to get to know him better

900
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:21,719
Speaker 1: and and and for people to understand him, like we

901
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:24,120
Speaker 1: understand what he did for for us and to be here,

902
00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:26,719
Speaker 1: to be in this game. You know, he's had a

903
00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:28,280
Speaker 1: lot to do with it. But At the same time,

904
00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:32,080
Speaker 1: that statement threw me off too because I've seen all

905
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:34,000
Speaker 1: the stuff you said about Kaepernick, now you're trying to

906
00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:36,600
Speaker 1: help him, Like it sucked me up too, So I

907
00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:39,440
Speaker 1: was just a little confused that at the role. But um,

908
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:43,160
Speaker 1: you know, I mean again, I think that the one

909
00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:47,480
Speaker 1: thing that I wish our conversations, uh could really take

910
00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:50,319
Speaker 1: a step forward. I mean conversations that are in our

911
00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:54,239
Speaker 1: community that get outside the community. And you know, I

912
00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:56,759
Speaker 1: know black people are always a lot of times aware

913
00:46:56,800 --> 00:46:59,120
Speaker 1: of this opinion, Like you know, we can't discuss this

914
00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:01,080
Speaker 1: in open view to people don't see it's like the

915
00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:03,879
Speaker 1: white people don't care about a lot of them don't

916
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:06,319
Speaker 1: care about us anyway, so it doesn't really matter. And

917
00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:08,359
Speaker 1: it's not like we can meet once a month and like, hey,

918
00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:11,600
Speaker 1: black people, let's all come together discuss our internal community issues.

919
00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:15,200
Speaker 1: Sometimes it's spills, it spills out, but I think it's

920
00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:18,600
Speaker 1: really constructive. It's really not constructive. Rather, when we start

921
00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:22,600
Speaker 1: to have this litmus test for blackness based off disagree

922
00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:25,960
Speaker 1: with people's opinions, right, I mean there there, look, I

923
00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:28,600
Speaker 1: gonna act like it's not some people out there that

924
00:47:28,719 --> 00:47:31,839
Speaker 1: are operatives in our community. There are. We know who

925
00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:34,719
Speaker 1: they are a lot of the time, a lot of them,

926
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:38,720
Speaker 1: you know, and so I understand that that really does exist,

927
00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:42,319
Speaker 1: But I personally am not comfortable, you know, calling black

928
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:45,080
Speaker 1: people those names and public cools and Uncle Ton's and

929
00:47:45,120 --> 00:47:47,680
Speaker 1: all that. I'm like, I'm not even going there with somebody.

930
00:47:47,719 --> 00:47:49,600
Speaker 1: And that's why he was comfortable coming on our show,

931
00:47:49,640 --> 00:47:51,480
Speaker 1: because we always have respect for each other, and we

932
00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:54,080
Speaker 1: as men should be able to and even as a

933
00:47:54,120 --> 00:47:56,120
Speaker 1: black race. We talked about this all the time. She

934
00:47:56,080 --> 00:47:59,360
Speaker 1: should be able to disagree without disrespecting each other. And

935
00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:01,040
Speaker 1: we have a proud with that. We have a big

936
00:48:01,080 --> 00:48:03,200
Speaker 1: problem with that. Yeah, and it's all or nothing, Like

937
00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:04,960
Speaker 1: I don't I don't sunk with him at all now,

938
00:48:05,040 --> 00:48:08,839
Speaker 1: Like he just didn't say something that aligned with It's okay,

939
00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:11,680
Speaker 1: It's okay, Yeah, No, it's all I mean. And it

940
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:16,040
Speaker 1: doesn't have to you don't have to um indict somebody's

941
00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:17,640
Speaker 1: whole record based off of it. I mean, I called

942
00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:20,200
Speaker 1: a lot of flat because you know, I wrote that

943
00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:22,680
Speaker 1: I didn't agree with jay Z partner with the NFL

944
00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:26,480
Speaker 1: um mostly because I felt like the NFL and this

945
00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:31,080
Speaker 1: is not too demean or belittle jay Z's obviously a

946
00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:33,719
Speaker 1: various stupid business knowledge or that he doesn't know what

947
00:48:33,760 --> 00:48:36,319
Speaker 1: he's doing. But the NFL is a different entity, and

948
00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:39,480
Speaker 1: I just felt like they were using him, are using

949
00:48:39,600 --> 00:48:44,319
Speaker 1: him to regain some credibility with the black community that

950
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:47,120
Speaker 1: that they had lost because of how they treated Colin Kaepernick.

951
00:48:47,400 --> 00:48:49,799
Speaker 1: They want their Super Bowl show. They don't want there

952
00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:53,160
Speaker 1: to be shame associated with the halftime show anymore because

953
00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:56,239
Speaker 1: the last couple of years, Holli Kaepernick, what happened to him,

954
00:48:56,280 --> 00:48:58,840
Speaker 1: has been hanging over the Super Bowl, their biggest of it,

955
00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:03,360
Speaker 1: and they wanted to eliminate that. And they even you know,

956
00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:06,959
Speaker 1: have the owners have talked about it um privately, which

957
00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:09,200
Speaker 1: became public, you know, based off a New York Times

958
00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:12,120
Speaker 1: report about how they felt like they needed a liaison

959
00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:17,680
Speaker 1: to talk to us and help bridge that gap that

960
00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:20,400
Speaker 1: was widened by Colin Kaepernick and hello jay Z. So

961
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:24,759
Speaker 1: I just felt like there was the NFL was playing

962
00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:27,520
Speaker 1: a game where they could shift the focus off what

963
00:49:27,560 --> 00:49:32,440
Speaker 1: they did and shifted on whatever, you know, darts. Jay

964
00:49:32,520 --> 00:49:35,799
Speaker 1: Z took a ball right, and suddenly it's like they

965
00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:38,319
Speaker 1: care about social justice issues, which they didn't before Colin

966
00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:42,320
Speaker 1: Kaepernick anyway, So It's just they're just playing this magnificencent

967
00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:44,359
Speaker 1: game of chess. And I just felt like he got

968
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:47,279
Speaker 1: caught up in that and he rapped about it. He

969
00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:49,879
Speaker 1: said he didn't need them right as he said, they're

970
00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:52,879
Speaker 1: gonna need him, and they did. And I didn't think

971
00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:55,719
Speaker 1: he should have gave them the leverage. And how can

972
00:49:55,760 --> 00:49:57,359
Speaker 1: you how can you take the next step with us?

973
00:49:57,360 --> 00:49:59,279
Speaker 1: All the videos kept saying with j Z saying, well,

974
00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:01,000
Speaker 1: what's the next step. Let's not talk about Niel and

975
00:50:01,160 --> 00:50:02,680
Speaker 1: what's the next step? Well, how are you gonna get

976
00:50:02,719 --> 00:50:05,400
Speaker 1: to the next step without Kaepernick? Well, the next step

977
00:50:06,239 --> 00:50:08,120
Speaker 1: he should be involved, Kapinnick should be involved. Oh, he

978
00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:11,200
Speaker 1: should definitely be in Nold. But the next step. And

979
00:50:11,239 --> 00:50:14,120
Speaker 1: this has always been I think the difficult part of

980
00:50:14,120 --> 00:50:17,040
Speaker 1: of seeing this movement that was created around Colin Kaepernick.

981
00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:20,120
Speaker 1: It was an individual decision that became a movement. It

982
00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:22,440
Speaker 1: was always meant to be an individual decision, you know,

983
00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:25,080
Speaker 1: and it became a movement. Other people got inspired. That's fine,

984
00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:29,640
Speaker 1: And I understand that even with the players coalition UH

985
00:50:29,680 --> 00:50:32,560
Speaker 1: that received the money from the NFL for various social

986
00:50:32,600 --> 00:50:35,080
Speaker 1: justice causes they're looking for. In this sight, I do

987
00:50:35,239 --> 00:50:36,960
Speaker 1: understand that and get that that there has to be

988
00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:39,520
Speaker 1: an endpoint to this. But the next steps had kind

989
00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:41,560
Speaker 1: of already been in place. Jay Z has done a

990
00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:45,440
Speaker 1: lot of magnificent social justice work, the Traylon Martin documentary,

991
00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:48,600
Speaker 1: the Khalib Browder documentary, all he's done in the community.

992
00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:52,960
Speaker 1: His record is unquestioned in that area, So that had

993
00:50:53,040 --> 00:50:56,680
Speaker 1: already taken place. Colin Kaepernick had been taking next steps.

994
00:50:56,960 --> 00:50:59,840
Speaker 1: What he's doing to get felons re entered into society,

995
00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:02,680
Speaker 1: giving them close to Interview UH and to Know Your

996
00:51:02,760 --> 00:51:05,640
Speaker 1: Rights Camp, teaching young people about their rights when it

997
00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:08,440
Speaker 1: comes to the legal system and UH and the police

998
00:51:08,840 --> 00:51:11,799
Speaker 1: already in motion. You don't need the NFL for any

999
00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:14,320
Speaker 1: of that. The next steps of the NFL has to address.

1000
00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:17,040
Speaker 1: It's been a hot button issue in the off season.

1001
00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:19,200
Speaker 1: Why don't you have more black coaches, Why don't you

1002
00:51:19,200 --> 00:51:23,200
Speaker 1: have more black gms. Those are things the NFL directly

1003
00:51:23,239 --> 00:51:26,480
Speaker 1: has control over. They can't do it about police brutality,

1004
00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:29,040
Speaker 1: that's not really their role. But they can't do something

1005
00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:30,960
Speaker 1: about what their league looks like and why they've never

1006
00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:33,880
Speaker 1: had a black owner. That's on them. And if he

1007
00:51:33,920 --> 00:51:36,480
Speaker 1: was gonna apply any pressure to them. It should have

1008
00:51:36,520 --> 00:51:39,799
Speaker 1: been about those things and not about the social justice stuff,

1009
00:51:39,840 --> 00:51:44,080
Speaker 1: which essentially to me, where was efforts that he didn't

1010
00:51:44,080 --> 00:51:46,279
Speaker 1: need their help on necessarily. I mean, it's good to

1011
00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:48,880
Speaker 1: have it, yes, but he didn't need them. They needed

1012
00:51:48,920 --> 00:51:51,440
Speaker 1: his credibility, not the other way around. Right. How do

1013
00:51:51,600 --> 00:51:57,160
Speaker 1: social media affected journalism? Oh? Man? Um, know where do

1014
00:51:57,200 --> 00:51:59,480
Speaker 1: I start? I mean, I try not to be so

1015
00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:05,600
Speaker 1: pestive mystic about it, but it's drastically changed our profession. Um.

1016
00:52:05,640 --> 00:52:08,239
Speaker 1: You know, there used to be and the media was

1017
00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:12,279
Speaker 1: never perfect. But I came up as a journalist when

1018
00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:16,000
Speaker 1: there wasn't social media, and there was a shame that

1019
00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:19,719
Speaker 1: went along with getting something wrong about somebody you were

1020
00:52:19,760 --> 00:52:22,120
Speaker 1: writing about, whether it be their name, a fact, like

1021
00:52:22,320 --> 00:52:26,440
Speaker 1: you were embarrassed when that happened because you couldn't just

1022
00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:29,600
Speaker 1: go online and corrected. The paper had to run a

1023
00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:32,360
Speaker 1: full scale correction the next day, so you had to

1024
00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:36,520
Speaker 1: live with that mistake being there and that that edition's paper. Um.

1025
00:52:36,600 --> 00:52:40,439
Speaker 1: And so now there's not a lot of accountability where

1026
00:52:40,440 --> 00:52:42,759
Speaker 1: in the age of corporate media, the size of the

1027
00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:45,480
Speaker 1: media is shrinking in its own by fewer people, and

1028
00:52:45,560 --> 00:52:49,920
Speaker 1: as a result, they are trying to turn media and

1029
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:53,839
Speaker 1: journalism into a for profit business, and much like any

1030
00:52:53,840 --> 00:52:56,160
Speaker 1: other businesses, they're trying to make as much money as possible,

1031
00:52:56,160 --> 00:52:58,440
Speaker 1: as cheaply as possible, and it's effect that the product.

1032
00:52:58,760 --> 00:53:01,160
Speaker 1: It's not a lot of mainstream media outlets that can

1033
00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:05,719
Speaker 1: be committed from a financial standpoint to really doing good journalism.

1034
00:53:05,800 --> 00:53:07,960
Speaker 1: And that's why you see some of the mistakes. You

1035
00:53:08,040 --> 00:53:11,200
Speaker 1: see some of the stories that get written that are

1036
00:53:11,239 --> 00:53:14,399
Speaker 1: a little more delicious. Um, there are things now that

1037
00:53:14,560 --> 00:53:17,640
Speaker 1: are able to be printed and tweeted and all that

1038
00:53:17,719 --> 00:53:22,279
Speaker 1: kind of thing that would never have stood twenty years ago. Uh,

1039
00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:27,640
Speaker 1: there's a rush to be first and not right. Yeah,

1040
00:53:27,719 --> 00:53:30,680
Speaker 1: they are good with being first and wrong and because

1041
00:53:30,719 --> 00:53:34,120
Speaker 1: there's really no repercussions for it, right, And so that

1042
00:53:34,239 --> 00:53:39,080
Speaker 1: part greatly concerns me. The misinformation concerns me. Um, you know,

1043
00:53:39,320 --> 00:53:42,719
Speaker 1: not to go all conspiracy theory on everybody, but people

1044
00:53:42,840 --> 00:53:45,799
Speaker 1: have to understand with everything we saw in the last

1045
00:53:45,800 --> 00:53:50,839
Speaker 1: election with Facebook's rolling, this, social media's rolling, this is

1046
00:53:50,920 --> 00:53:55,600
Speaker 1: that most people these days, unlike kind of I think

1047
00:53:55,680 --> 00:53:57,399
Speaker 1: probably from the age we were are from, they are

1048
00:53:57,440 --> 00:54:02,279
Speaker 1: looking to reaffirm their beliefs through media as opposed to

1049
00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:06,320
Speaker 1: neutrally being told the information and then coming to a conclusion.

1050
00:54:06,680 --> 00:54:08,640
Speaker 1: You know, it's a reason why certain networks, you know,

1051
00:54:09,120 --> 00:54:11,680
Speaker 1: what their political slant is, and that's why they watch it,

1052
00:54:11,719 --> 00:54:13,799
Speaker 1: because they want somebody else to just reinforce what they

1053
00:54:13,840 --> 00:54:17,600
Speaker 1: already think. If that's you said it, So if they

1054
00:54:17,640 --> 00:54:20,600
Speaker 1: already think that way, it's like then they're happy to

1055
00:54:20,640 --> 00:54:24,880
Speaker 1: traffic and misinformation. And so I worry about, you know,

1056
00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:28,640
Speaker 1: people's ability to decipher what is fake and what is true.

1057
00:54:28,680 --> 00:54:31,120
Speaker 1: A Facebook meme will go around and people will take

1058
00:54:31,120 --> 00:54:33,160
Speaker 1: that as the truth in the media. Yeah, I mean,

1059
00:54:33,160 --> 00:54:35,839
Speaker 1: I remember during the Kaepernick stuff and that meme got

1060
00:54:35,880 --> 00:54:38,080
Speaker 1: around about Tim Tebow. Tim Tikootle took a knee and

1061
00:54:38,120 --> 00:54:41,600
Speaker 1: nobody did anything and that totally wasn't what he was doing.

1062
00:54:41,640 --> 00:54:43,520
Speaker 1: He was praying in the end zone, and somebody took

1063
00:54:43,520 --> 00:54:46,200
Speaker 1: the image and said that he was taking a knee

1064
00:54:46,840 --> 00:54:49,399
Speaker 1: for pro life rights. And it's but that people thought

1065
00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:52,040
Speaker 1: that was true. And I saw that hundreds of times.

1066
00:54:52,440 --> 00:54:55,120
Speaker 1: And that's what happens nowadays. One bit of information gets

1067
00:54:55,120 --> 00:54:58,560
Speaker 1: out about you, and if it circulates enough, nobody sticks

1068
00:54:58,560 --> 00:55:02,279
Speaker 1: around to see if it's correct or note, how does

1069
00:55:02,320 --> 00:55:03,879
Speaker 1: like I know I preach it to the choir over

1070
00:55:04,280 --> 00:55:06,280
Speaker 1: being a leader in the industry. What kind of challenges

1071
00:55:06,520 --> 00:55:08,360
Speaker 1: have come with that, being a black female in the

1072
00:55:08,360 --> 00:55:10,839
Speaker 1: space of it, but also being a leader. Um well,

1073
00:55:10,880 --> 00:55:14,080
Speaker 1: I think, um, you know, kind of one of the challenges.

1074
00:55:14,160 --> 00:55:16,680
Speaker 1: One thing, they know you ain't taking those ships. They

1075
00:55:16,760 --> 00:55:20,800
Speaker 1: know that you better come correct it, don't come at all. Yeah,

1076
00:55:21,160 --> 00:55:23,200
Speaker 1: I guess I am start to get in that reputation.

1077
00:55:23,320 --> 00:55:29,480
Speaker 1: But that's welcome, welcome to the club. Um No, I mean,

1078
00:55:29,520 --> 00:55:32,719
Speaker 1: I think a lot of the things I've gone through

1079
00:55:32,719 --> 00:55:36,360
Speaker 1: are just relatable to like black people everywhere being hailed

1080
00:55:36,400 --> 00:55:41,440
Speaker 1: sometimes to a different standard, um, being scrutinized differently. Um.

1081
00:55:41,480 --> 00:55:43,320
Speaker 1: You know, certainly when you're a woman in sports, a

1082
00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:46,880
Speaker 1: lot of a lot of people think that you're there, um,

1083
00:55:46,920 --> 00:55:49,080
Speaker 1: you know, just to get a husband or you know,

1084
00:55:49,160 --> 00:55:52,080
Speaker 1: to date somebody. And uh, that's why I hated movies

1085
00:55:52,160 --> 00:55:53,759
Speaker 1: when they always have that story A lot of the

1086
00:55:53,800 --> 00:55:57,360
Speaker 1: reporter hooking up with the athlete is so annoying. But

1087
00:55:57,440 --> 00:55:59,279
Speaker 1: like that's what we all are in there for. So

1088
00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:01,719
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that has never happened. When I am

1089
00:56:01,760 --> 00:56:05,239
Speaker 1: saying it's like that's really not the mission. So um,

1090
00:56:05,280 --> 00:56:06,839
Speaker 1: you know, you just have to live with the fact

1091
00:56:06,840 --> 00:56:10,040
Speaker 1: that you'll be doubted, that they're gonna come at you

1092
00:56:10,200 --> 00:56:12,400
Speaker 1: a different way than they would a man. And people

1093
00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:14,840
Speaker 1: seem to think that sports and a knowledge is directly

1094
00:56:14,840 --> 00:56:19,360
Speaker 1: related to genitalia, and it doesn't work that way. So

1095
00:56:19,800 --> 00:56:22,720
Speaker 1: those are you know, dealing with those doubts are something,

1096
00:56:23,120 --> 00:56:26,520
Speaker 1: uh that I feel like most black people experience, regardless

1097
00:56:26,560 --> 00:56:28,759
Speaker 1: of what you're you know, profession is, but it can

1098
00:56:28,800 --> 00:56:30,600
Speaker 1: be doubly worse when you're a black woman because you

1099
00:56:30,640 --> 00:56:34,200
Speaker 1: didn't have to deal with the narrative that we're angry, combative,

1100
00:56:35,400 --> 00:56:37,920
Speaker 1: you know, if we assert ourselves as if you totally

1101
00:56:37,920 --> 00:56:39,920
Speaker 1: different than if a white dude does it. It's just

1102
00:56:42,600 --> 00:56:45,240
Speaker 1: totally did. It's like, Okay, she stood up for something

1103
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:49,399
Speaker 1: that frankly anybody should have stood up for. But now

1104
00:56:49,480 --> 00:56:54,000
Speaker 1: she's a troublemaker. Now she's difficult, and so you know,

1105
00:56:54,080 --> 00:56:56,200
Speaker 1: we have to deal with or I've certainly had to

1106
00:56:56,200 --> 00:56:59,680
Speaker 1: deal with some of that, you know as well, and um,

1107
00:57:00,040 --> 00:57:04,120
Speaker 1: let's get taxing. It is some days, you know, you

1108
00:57:04,120 --> 00:57:06,080
Speaker 1: you wonder how much fight you have left in you.

1109
00:57:06,160 --> 00:57:09,600
Speaker 1: But for me, what always keeps me going, and this

1110
00:57:09,640 --> 00:57:12,160
Speaker 1: is that leadership part that comes with it. This isn't

1111
00:57:12,200 --> 00:57:14,160
Speaker 1: about me anymore. It has ceased to be about me

1112
00:57:14,200 --> 00:57:17,840
Speaker 1: for a long time. This is about the younger journalists

1113
00:57:17,840 --> 00:57:21,440
Speaker 1: of color who are looking at me, and yeah, it's

1114
00:57:21,440 --> 00:57:24,800
Speaker 1: about who's next. And it's not just about me getting

1115
00:57:24,800 --> 00:57:26,520
Speaker 1: them through the door. I have to make through. When

1116
00:57:26,560 --> 00:57:29,200
Speaker 1: they get through the door, it's a safe place for them.

1117
00:57:29,240 --> 00:57:32,120
Speaker 1: And so I can't be at work anymore in working

1118
00:57:32,240 --> 00:57:36,439
Speaker 1: environments where I can't not just speak my mind, but

1119
00:57:36,680 --> 00:57:41,240
Speaker 1: I can't get them to culture correct if there's a problem. Um. So,

1120
00:57:41,560 --> 00:57:43,520
Speaker 1: I mean, that's kind of all that I'm in it for.

1121
00:57:43,880 --> 00:57:47,720
Speaker 1: And because again the numbers look real, sad, and it's

1122
00:57:48,000 --> 00:57:51,200
Speaker 1: changing how the news and how we as a as

1123
00:57:51,240 --> 00:57:54,960
Speaker 1: a culture and community are perceived. When you have a

1124
00:57:55,080 --> 00:57:57,800
Speaker 1: number of journalists who do not look like you, covering

1125
00:57:57,840 --> 00:58:02,240
Speaker 1: people that they have really no connection or contact with

1126
00:58:02,400 --> 00:58:06,240
Speaker 1: or have never had any it greatly changes how they're perceived.

1127
00:58:06,440 --> 00:58:08,800
Speaker 1: And so you know, it's like just a small example.

1128
00:58:08,880 --> 00:58:11,640
Speaker 1: That's why in this opioid crisis, you're seeing all these

1129
00:58:11,640 --> 00:58:14,280
Speaker 1: sympathetic stories about treatment, not saying they shouldn't be there,

1130
00:58:14,280 --> 00:58:17,240
Speaker 1: but they should, and the covered crack epidemic that way

1131
00:58:17,360 --> 00:58:19,440
Speaker 1: it was law in order send you all to jail,

1132
00:58:20,280 --> 00:58:23,640
Speaker 1: you know, deal with it. Come raade this community, take

1133
00:58:23,680 --> 00:58:27,800
Speaker 1: away everything. You know. That's that's that was the picture

1134
00:58:27,840 --> 00:58:32,120
Speaker 1: of the coverage. People, right, bad people. They don't deserve

1135
00:58:32,160 --> 00:58:34,520
Speaker 1: your sympathy, you know. And it's a lot of times

1136
00:58:34,520 --> 00:58:37,760
Speaker 1: why the coverage of us is often not only it

1137
00:58:37,840 --> 00:58:41,360
Speaker 1: lacks sympathy and empathy and compassion, it lacks humanity, like

1138
00:58:41,440 --> 00:58:43,360
Speaker 1: covering us like we're not even human, you know what

1139
00:58:43,400 --> 00:58:46,800
Speaker 1: I mean? And so, um, the only way that could

1140
00:58:46,880 --> 00:58:48,520
Speaker 1: change is that it has to be more of us,

1141
00:58:48,560 --> 00:58:50,720
Speaker 1: not only in the business, but more of us in

1142
00:58:50,840 --> 00:58:53,320
Speaker 1: decision making roles. You know, you've got to get out

1143
00:58:53,320 --> 00:58:55,080
Speaker 1: of here soon. Um. We just want to touch on

1144
00:58:55,120 --> 00:58:57,760
Speaker 1: a couple more things. What are your thoughts about female

1145
00:58:57,760 --> 00:59:01,640
Speaker 1: assistant coaches and that phen I'm growing in the NBA. Um.

1146
00:59:01,760 --> 00:59:04,800
Speaker 1: I think it's great. I mean obviously, and I think

1147
00:59:04,800 --> 00:59:06,880
Speaker 1: a lot of the teams see a lot of the benefit.

1148
00:59:07,520 --> 00:59:10,280
Speaker 1: But if I may pivot, I think the thing you

1149
00:59:10,360 --> 00:59:14,720
Speaker 1: have to that we have to be concerned about. Look

1150
00:59:14,760 --> 00:59:16,480
Speaker 1: at the w n b A and look at and

1151
00:59:16,480 --> 00:59:21,000
Speaker 1: even in women's college basketball, look at the lack of

1152
00:59:21,040 --> 00:59:24,480
Speaker 1: black female head coaches. That's a real problem out there.

1153
00:59:24,680 --> 00:59:28,760
Speaker 1: And give black male NFL NBA players w NBA jobs,

1154
00:59:28,840 --> 00:59:31,080
Speaker 1: but they won't give them NBA jobs. There you go,

1155
00:59:31,640 --> 00:59:34,640
Speaker 1: and that that's what I'm It's like, okay, and then

1156
00:59:34,640 --> 00:59:37,520
Speaker 1: and you know, before I mean, people are always questioned,

1157
00:59:38,360 --> 00:59:40,520
Speaker 1: is it a pipeline issue, like it's just not enough?

1158
00:59:41,680 --> 00:59:47,360
Speaker 1: Something like over eighty five percent of black female college

1159
00:59:47,400 --> 00:59:51,960
Speaker 1: basketball players get their degrees. It's an extraordinarily high number, right,

1160
00:59:52,120 --> 00:59:54,360
Speaker 1: So you can't say because it's not qualified they got

1161
00:59:54,360 --> 00:59:56,480
Speaker 1: that degrees because they used to use that to hold

1162
00:59:56,520 --> 00:59:59,960
Speaker 1: that against black men and college basketball and in other

1163
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:01,800
Speaker 1: a space to saying, well, y'all don't get your degrees,

1164
01:00:01,840 --> 01:00:04,200
Speaker 1: that that's why you're not able to coach or able

1165
01:00:04,200 --> 01:00:07,200
Speaker 1: to get this athletic director position and all that. But

1166
01:00:07,280 --> 01:00:09,000
Speaker 1: I can't say that with them. And the numbers still

1167
01:00:09,000 --> 01:00:10,960
Speaker 1: look like what they what they look like. They go,

1168
01:00:11,600 --> 01:00:14,080
Speaker 1: you know, it's like they're giving white women, white men,

1169
01:00:14,240 --> 01:00:17,640
Speaker 1: black men jobs. Black women are not represented at the

1170
01:00:17,680 --> 01:00:20,920
Speaker 1: coaching position in the w NBA. So I think that

1171
01:00:20,960 --> 01:00:24,800
Speaker 1: needs to be addressed. Um, But I'm happy in general

1172
01:00:24,880 --> 01:00:29,600
Speaker 1: to see Sue Bird and Becky Hammond and and all

1173
01:00:29,640 --> 01:00:33,160
Speaker 1: those players be able to come and give their knowledge

1174
01:00:33,160 --> 01:00:36,040
Speaker 1: of the game. Um. And I think it shows why

1175
01:00:36,080 --> 01:00:39,600
Speaker 1: the NBA has always been a little bit more progressive

1176
01:00:40,040 --> 01:00:46,200
Speaker 1: basketball period, I think has lent itself to see more progressive. Um.

1177
01:00:46,240 --> 01:00:48,320
Speaker 1: You know kind of approach is happening because ball is

1178
01:00:48,360 --> 01:00:50,160
Speaker 1: just ball when it comes down to it. And right,

1179
01:00:50,400 --> 01:00:52,800
Speaker 1: I don't understand is how you gonna make a coach

1180
01:00:53,240 --> 01:00:55,560
Speaker 1: that the NBA players ben't like Derek Fishing and you're

1181
01:00:55,560 --> 01:00:57,120
Speaker 1: gonna make it force the girl to like like the

1182
01:00:57,200 --> 01:00:59,520
Speaker 1: guysn't even like Now you're gonna send over trying to

1183
01:00:59,520 --> 01:01:02,280
Speaker 1: coach them. I don't get it. And then second of all,

1184
01:01:04,480 --> 01:01:06,720
Speaker 1: sometime of the w n b A they're getting paid. Now,

1185
01:01:07,080 --> 01:01:09,040
Speaker 1: I'm happy to getting paid now. Like I said, I'd

1186
01:01:09,120 --> 01:01:12,320
Speaker 1: rather watch Ty Young played in Otto porter. So I'm glad.

1187
01:01:12,360 --> 01:01:14,240
Speaker 1: I'm glad they're getting their money. Now. What do you

1188
01:01:14,280 --> 01:01:18,120
Speaker 1: think about that? Well, Um, but I understand that it

1189
01:01:18,200 --> 01:01:20,320
Speaker 1: was never and that many of them that you talked

1190
01:01:20,360 --> 01:01:22,520
Speaker 1: to you you would tell you this. It was never about

1191
01:01:23,200 --> 01:01:25,720
Speaker 1: they're number one pick getting the same as Lebron James.

1192
01:01:25,800 --> 01:01:28,000
Speaker 1: It was never about that what they wanted was a

1193
01:01:28,000 --> 01:01:30,280
Speaker 1: big percent a bigger percentage of what they were bringing

1194
01:01:30,320 --> 01:01:34,080
Speaker 1: in and it's right, that's only right. And I think

1195
01:01:34,160 --> 01:01:36,920
Speaker 1: the m w b A had no choice because you

1196
01:01:36,920 --> 01:01:39,640
Speaker 1: can't have somebody like Brianna Streward going overseas and getting

1197
01:01:39,680 --> 01:01:42,040
Speaker 1: hurt and then missing the season. You're taking money out

1198
01:01:42,040 --> 01:01:43,960
Speaker 1: of your pocket. And they're going overseas because they needed

1199
01:01:44,000 --> 01:01:46,400
Speaker 1: something that they did. A lot of people to understand

1200
01:01:46,400 --> 01:01:48,320
Speaker 1: these women have to go playoff seas or get another

1201
01:01:48,400 --> 01:01:50,840
Speaker 1: job because what they're getting paid is not enough. So

1202
01:01:50,920 --> 01:01:53,720
Speaker 1: it's great that now every every woman in the league

1203
01:01:53,760 --> 01:01:57,120
Speaker 1: will make six figures. Maternally, these are basic things that

1204
01:01:57,200 --> 01:02:01,200
Speaker 1: they've earned the right to have and so UM, I

1205
01:02:01,240 --> 01:02:03,600
Speaker 1: think it's an amazing step for this league to take

1206
01:02:03,640 --> 01:02:05,760
Speaker 1: and they could be a real model. And what I've

1207
01:02:05,760 --> 01:02:09,920
Speaker 1: always appreciated is how NBA players support that their WNBA

1208
01:02:10,280 --> 01:02:14,160
Speaker 1: like it just generally love women's college basketball and women's

1209
01:02:14,160 --> 01:02:18,000
Speaker 1: basketball period, and I think that's just a dope relationship,

1210
01:02:18,480 --> 01:02:21,320
Speaker 1: you know, between um kind of the two sports. So

1211
01:02:21,400 --> 01:02:23,400
Speaker 1: like you know, when we're talking about the coaches that

1212
01:02:23,440 --> 01:02:25,320
Speaker 1: you know, ball is ball is like I think y'all,

1213
01:02:25,440 --> 01:02:27,600
Speaker 1: y'all recognize a real one when y'all see one, and

1214
01:02:27,720 --> 01:02:30,800
Speaker 1: it doesn't really matter the gender. So I'm happy that

1215
01:02:30,840 --> 01:02:33,040
Speaker 1: they're at a point now where maybe you'll see fewer

1216
01:02:33,040 --> 01:02:35,200
Speaker 1: of them go overseas because they don't want to spend

1217
01:02:35,320 --> 01:02:37,520
Speaker 1: years in Russia like they rather play here in front

1218
01:02:37,520 --> 01:02:39,840
Speaker 1: of the fans. Shout Out was the first one to do.

1219
01:02:39,920 --> 01:02:41,840
Speaker 1: Y'all don't want to pay me, I'm gonna go back home,

1220
01:02:41,960 --> 01:02:44,120
Speaker 1: get a meal ticket, then come back and play. That's

1221
01:02:44,120 --> 01:02:47,840
Speaker 1: what she did, so shout out. Feel like we appreciate

1222
01:02:47,880 --> 01:02:50,400
Speaker 1: our off season so much like they don't get all.

1223
01:02:50,480 --> 01:02:53,120
Speaker 1: They go from this their short season to a long

1224
01:02:53,280 --> 01:02:58,600
Speaker 1: ass just mention this full time. Mom Come on, that's crazy.

1225
01:02:58,960 --> 01:03:05,320
Speaker 1: Last question U NBA Finals picks and who wins it? Well,

1226
01:03:07,360 --> 01:03:11,040
Speaker 1: I know, I know it's funny because it was. I

1227
01:03:11,080 --> 01:03:12,520
Speaker 1: went through a period of this season when I was like,

1228
01:03:12,520 --> 01:03:14,360
Speaker 1: oh man, this thing is really wide open. I was like,

1229
01:03:14,360 --> 01:03:18,880
Speaker 1: oh ship, no, it's not talking by the day, like

1230
01:03:19,080 --> 01:03:24,720
Speaker 1: all right, uh, it is pretty hard um to go

1231
01:03:24,760 --> 01:03:28,480
Speaker 1: against the Lakers, but the Clippers. I'm gonna beat that person.

1232
01:03:28,520 --> 01:03:31,800
Speaker 1: I was just about to say, I like the Clippers

1233
01:03:31,840 --> 01:03:34,280
Speaker 1: better than the Lakers, and I feel like their pieces

1234
01:03:34,320 --> 01:03:36,160
Speaker 1: really messed together. I think they have more depth. I

1235
01:03:36,200 --> 01:03:39,480
Speaker 1: think they have the kind of defensive attitude that they

1236
01:03:39,520 --> 01:03:45,800
Speaker 1: definitely lends itself to winning championships, winning playoff series. Um,

1237
01:03:45,840 --> 01:03:47,560
Speaker 1: it would be the fate of the apocalypse if the

1238
01:03:47,560 --> 01:03:50,560
Speaker 1: Clippers lose. If the Clippers beat the Lakers in the

1239
01:03:50,600 --> 01:03:52,720
Speaker 1: Western Finals, like here, I mean, we're in l A,

1240
01:03:52,800 --> 01:03:54,640
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh my god, I'm just worried about the

1241
01:03:54,640 --> 01:03:56,920
Speaker 1: clip because you've got their own players saying, man, we're

1242
01:03:56,920 --> 01:03:58,640
Speaker 1: not as good as we think. They've been losing some

1243
01:03:58,680 --> 01:04:01,240
Speaker 1: bullshit games. But you know it's early. It's the dog

1244
01:04:01,360 --> 01:04:04,120
Speaker 1: run right early. So that's what you can't count the

1245
01:04:04,120 --> 01:04:08,760
Speaker 1: time they beat the Lakers that we know as players.

1246
01:04:09,000 --> 01:04:10,840
Speaker 1: You know, you know as players, we know you know,

1247
01:04:10,880 --> 01:04:12,680
Speaker 1: it starts kind of after All Star break, so that's

1248
01:04:12,680 --> 01:04:14,400
Speaker 1: when you kind of really start looking in and kind

1249
01:04:14,400 --> 01:04:16,120
Speaker 1: of seeing what kind of team. But back to you, No,

1250
01:04:16,760 --> 01:04:19,880
Speaker 1: I got the Clippers in Milwaukee, and who wins? Um,

1251
01:04:20,240 --> 01:04:25,160
Speaker 1: are the Clippers getting their first one? I'm gonna say

1252
01:04:25,200 --> 01:04:30,600
Speaker 1: the Bucks because if you don't, Yeah, that's part of

1253
01:04:30,600 --> 01:04:32,520
Speaker 1: what maybe I'm I'm kind of rude for this to happen.

1254
01:04:32,520 --> 01:04:34,320
Speaker 1: I mean, he may win when and still be out right,

1255
01:04:35,400 --> 01:04:38,600
Speaker 1: but I mean, look, I realized that you know, at

1256
01:04:38,640 --> 01:04:40,760
Speaker 1: this point you kind of have like three or four

1257
01:04:40,800 --> 01:04:42,960
Speaker 1: teams that have emerged. I don't think Houston's gonna make it,

1258
01:04:43,320 --> 01:04:45,560
Speaker 1: you know, um, I know it is. It is kind

1259
01:04:45,600 --> 01:04:48,240
Speaker 1: of tough, especially with everything that they that they've gone through.

1260
01:04:48,280 --> 01:04:51,520
Speaker 1: But um, you know, right now, whenever I watched man,

1261
01:04:51,560 --> 01:04:55,880
Speaker 1: it's like the Clippers, the Lakers, Milwaukee, they passed that

1262
01:04:56,000 --> 01:04:58,640
Speaker 1: odd test you know to me, so I know it

1263
01:04:58,680 --> 01:05:00,840
Speaker 1: would be a cool story. You know, you have Toronto

1264
01:05:00,920 --> 01:05:05,280
Speaker 1: Winny last year. I mean that would be pretty special.

1265
01:05:05,280 --> 01:05:07,640
Speaker 1: I think. So. Well, that's a wrap. We want to

1266
01:05:07,680 --> 01:05:14,080
Speaker 1: thank our guests. Yeah, yeah, you know, I love you guys.

1267
01:05:14,080 --> 01:05:15,800
Speaker 1: I love that you're the fact that you're doing this

1268
01:05:16,480 --> 01:05:19,320
Speaker 1: and I couldn't think of two people who were more

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01:05:19,320 --> 01:05:22,480
Speaker 1: suited to do something like this, sit down and have

1270
01:05:22,560 --> 01:05:25,560
Speaker 1: honest conversations and to talk ship with people. This means

1271
01:05:25,560 --> 01:05:27,960
Speaker 1: a lot coming from you. There's a lot coming from you.

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01:05:28,000 --> 01:05:30,800
Speaker 1: Thank you very much everything you've done and stand for,

1273
01:05:30,960 --> 01:05:33,560
Speaker 1: so thank you, and we got it back. So when

1274
01:05:33,560 --> 01:05:36,720
Speaker 1: the ship started, just no, we're coming. All the motherfucker's smokes,

1275
01:05:36,800 --> 01:05:41,600
Speaker 1: all of it. That's a wrap. Catch us Showtime Basketball, YouTube,

1276
01:05:42,720 --> 01:05:46,000
Speaker 1: all the smoke and on all platforms, streaming, podcast, all

1277
01:05:46,040 --> 01:05:48,800
Speaker 1: of them. We're hearing that some of the Warriors may

1278
01:05:48,840 --> 01:05:51,360
Speaker 1: have already made a decision not to attend a potential

1279
01:05:51,360 --> 01:05:53,800
Speaker 1: White House visit. Why have you decided that this is

1280
01:05:53,920 --> 01:05:57,200
Speaker 1: something you really want to make a big statement about. Well,

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01:05:57,240 --> 01:06:04,280
Speaker 1: I don't want to go. That's really in your life,

1282
01:06:04,560 --> 01:06:16,240
Speaker 1: Your friend, you must have they didn't termination. If you're

1283
01:06:16,280 --> 01:06:19,960
Speaker 1: in a racist society and you're being discriminated against, it's

1284
01:06:20,080 --> 01:06:23,880
Speaker 1: up to you to do something for yourself. I don't

1285
01:06:23,920 --> 01:06:32,440
Speaker 1: allow any party to make you feel you know, is

1286
01:06:32,480 --> 01:06:34,360
Speaker 1: there any regret that you got to do a name

1287
01:06:34,400 --> 01:06:41,760
Speaker 1: calling situation with the president? No? Always feel and how

1288
01:06:42,440 --> 01:06:47,600
Speaker 1: always feel Black athletes who are supposed to be the workers,

1289
01:06:47,680 --> 01:06:50,840
Speaker 1: not the owners. They were supposed to be the talent,

1290
01:06:51,000 --> 01:06:58,160
Speaker 1: and never the power programs always feel that you were where.

1291
01:06:58,560 --> 01:07:01,080
Speaker 1: It's so much more than a game. It's a vehicle

1292
01:07:01,200 --> 01:07:11,760
Speaker 1: to push positive social change. At some point you have

1293
01:07:11,840 --> 01:07:13,840
Speaker 1: to look in the mirror and say that my part

1294
01:07:13,840 --> 01:07:20,880
Speaker 1: of the problem, I part of the solution. Significant signific

1295
01:07:26,240 --> 01:07:30,320
Speaker 1: to each of you, Each of you, All these guys

1296
01:07:30,400 --> 01:07:34,520
Speaker 1: who stood up every step along the way, they're the

1297
01:07:34,560 --> 01:07:40,840
Speaker 1: ones who are the true heroes in our world. At

1298
01:07:40,880 --> 01:07:44,000
Speaker 1: that time, it was never acceptable that a black player

1299
01:07:44,120 --> 01:07:50,440
Speaker 1: was the best. When you just what you're going to

1300
01:07:50,600 --> 01:08:03,760
Speaker 1: be in life as this particular history. If you recognize

1301
01:08:03,760 --> 01:08:05,440
Speaker 1: you where you come from, in your background and what

1302
01:08:05,480 --> 01:08:07,320
Speaker 1: people have done for you to get there, you're gonna

1303
01:08:07,320 --> 01:08:14,880
Speaker 1: get inspired body, and you're gonna do right period living.

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01:08:33,560 --> 01:08:40,040
Speaker 1: M hm m hm