Speaker 1: I rush out of there like Cruela Deville in one
Speaker 1: hundred and one Dalmatians Death, gripping the wheel, red eyed,
Speaker 1: just like mad, and I go back to our apartment.
Speaker 1: I throw the credit card at him sitting on the couch,
Speaker 1: and I scream, do you recognize these numbers?
Speaker 2: I'm Andrea Gunning and this is Betrayal, A show about
Speaker 2: the people we trust the most and the deceptions that
Speaker 2: change everything. A few months ago, my twin sister called me.
Speaker 2: She wanted to connect me with someone who had a
Speaker 2: betrayal story of his own. It was her favorite fitness instructor,
Speaker 2: Ryan Lewis.
Speaker 3: Ryan's a force of nature.
Speaker 1: There's some days teach four classes a day and I'll
Speaker 1: still find time to take a class as well.
Speaker 2: Ryan has an infectious energy. I can attest to this
Speaker 2: firsthand because I used to take his class in my hometown.
Speaker 2: That only does he have the best music, but the
Speaker 2: way he motivates the class, it's not just physical, it's
Speaker 2: also emotional.
Speaker 3: I may or may not have cried in his class before.
Speaker 1: Sometimes I bring my teaching home with me in terms
Speaker 1: of like making somebody's day, or making somebody's life better,
Speaker 1: or whatever it is.
Speaker 2: Ryan's inclined to put other people's happiness first, sometimes to
Speaker 2: a fault, and one of his core values is to
Speaker 2: assume the best in others.
Speaker 1: I will take somebody's word for what it is as
Speaker 1: they're giving me, and I will believe them. And it's
Speaker 1: just because I'd rather live in a world like that
Speaker 1: than live in a world where I constantly, I don't know,
Speaker 1: have my guard up.
Speaker 2: He grew up outside of Philadelphia in a well to
Speaker 2: do family. He's very close with his parents and siblings.
Speaker 2: The family is ambitious, academic.
Speaker 4: And I was kind of the one that went and
Speaker 4: charted my own path.
Speaker 2: As a teenager, Ryan got into theater and his parents
Speaker 2: were at every performance, like when he was cast as
Speaker 2: Jean Valjean in a local theater production of La Miz.
Speaker 1: There were seven performances. My dad was at every single
Speaker 1: one of them. But he came to see it and
Speaker 1: he was talking to one of my friends, who then
Speaker 1: shared this with me. They were like, you must be
Speaker 1: so proud of him, and He's like, of course I am.
Speaker 1: You know, I was expecting to be in the bleachers
Speaker 1: of like a Friday Night Lights kind of situation, but
Speaker 1: this is like his varsity jacket moment.
Speaker 3: After graduating high school, he went to NYU.
Speaker 4: Being in New York.
Speaker 1: City, that's when I feel like my actual day dating
Speaker 1: life started.
Speaker 2: He started his first serious relationship with a guy he
Speaker 2: met online. He was eleven years older than Ryan, and
Speaker 2: he had an established job in finance.
Speaker 1: There was a part of me, a large part of me,
Speaker 1: that genuinely loved this man. But at the same time,
Speaker 1: I was also loving the stuff that I was getting
Speaker 1: from him, which were drugs that I was looking for
Speaker 1: that I couldn't really afford.
Speaker 2: The two of them would go on benders together, partying
Speaker 2: and doing cocaine. When the relationship ended, Ryan's cocaine didn't.
Speaker 2: His next boyfriend noticed it immediately.
Speaker 1: He came over and I was very noticeably high, and
Speaker 1: he was like, are we going out.
Speaker 4: Tonight or something? And I was like nope.
Speaker 1: So then he was like, I'm not going to do
Speaker 1: this anymore. This has to immediately stop or I'm going
Speaker 1: to leave you. So I did until I found a
Speaker 1: way to keep that drug usage secret to the point
Speaker 1: where I would just hope that he would then go
Speaker 1: to bed or something and then I could party all night,
Speaker 1: which I did.
Speaker 4: He fell in.
Speaker 3: Love with this new guy.
Speaker 2: It was the first time he could see himself with
Speaker 2: someone long term. But all the while Ryan was lying
Speaker 2: to him hiding his drug use. His boyfriend would draw
Speaker 2: a line in the sand. Ryan would promise to get clean,
Speaker 2: but then he'd end up using again and the cycle
Speaker 2: would repeat itself. Ryan says that this was his rock bottom.
Speaker 1: I went to do what would be my last line
Speaker 1: now over ten years later. I just didn't feel anything,
Speaker 1: and I had, you know, the six or seven before
Speaker 1: that of the night, but it just stopped working. And
Speaker 1: it kind of was just this bigger moment, bigger than
Speaker 1: myself kind of moment, this realization of, like, I think
Speaker 1: this party is over. I had to come clean to
Speaker 1: him that, like I had used again, and then he
Speaker 1: had called my parents. My mom flew up no return ticket,
Speaker 1: and she was like, I'm not leaving New York City
Speaker 1: until we get you the help that you need.
Speaker 2: Ryan started going to alpatient rehab every day. He and
Speaker 2: his boy my friend, ultimately separated. Today, Ryan's been sober
Speaker 2: for ten years. Back when he first got sober, he
Speaker 2: found a new clarity on his priorities. He was twenty three,
Speaker 2: a recent graduate with a degree in business administration, and
Speaker 2: he landed a corporate marketing job, but getting sober changed him,
Speaker 2: and marketing analytics felt empty.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 1: How I can show up to work and try to
Speaker 1: sell something that I have to put on somebody else's
Speaker 1: hat for. I just like to come from a really
Speaker 1: authentic place.
Speaker 3: And what he was passionate about was fitness.
Speaker 1: At the time, I was a frequent and avid writer
Speaker 1: at soul Cycle. It was my transfer addiction, probably writing
Speaker 1: like seven to ten times a week, doubling Monday Wednesday
Speaker 1: Friday morning six am seven am.
Speaker 4: Crazy. I know.
Speaker 2: He went so often that one day an instructor asked
Speaker 2: if he would be interested in tea.
Speaker 1: I just graduated college from like one of the top
Speaker 1: undergrad and graduate business schools in the country, and I
Speaker 1: couldn't imagine saying to my parents, Hey, I'm going to
Speaker 1: leave this to go become a cycling instructor.
Speaker 3: But he decided to give it a shot, no matter
Speaker 3: what his parents thought.
Speaker 1: I wanted to wake up every morning excited for what
Speaker 1: I got to do.
Speaker 2: Of course, he was hired and began instructor training right away.
Speaker 3: He knew that this wasn't just a job. It was
Speaker 3: going to be his career.
Speaker 1: They moved me to Philly because they were opening up
Speaker 1: the first studio there. They knew I was from there
Speaker 1: and they wanted me to be a part of the
Speaker 1: opening team. And so I did that and opened up
Speaker 1: the two studios that are now there today. Was there
Speaker 1: for like seven years.
Speaker 2: After investing his entire twenties in growing his career, he
Speaker 2: wanted a partner he could build a life with, someone
Speaker 2: who could match his passion and energy.
Speaker 4: I have a.
Speaker 1: Huge heart and I have a lot of feelings, and
Speaker 1: so I like to think that there is somebody out
Speaker 1: there who is open to connecting that deeply and it
Speaker 1: comes from a really authentic place.
Speaker 2: In twenty nineteen, Ryan got a coveted summer position teaching
Speaker 2: in the Hamptons. He was on the dating apps but
Speaker 2: wasn't expecting to find anything serious. After all, it's a
Speaker 2: vacation town.
Speaker 1: I've definitely had my fair share of hookups via Grinder,
Speaker 1: like I have no shame about that. Very sex positive,
Speaker 1: but I still don't execute as much as like the
Speaker 1: opportunity maybe comes up.
Speaker 2: Ryan had a lot of unopened messages on his dating apps,
Speaker 2: but one day he got a message that piqued his interest.
Speaker 3: It was from a guy we're going to call Jacques.
Speaker 1: I remember just being like, this man is so attractive.
Speaker 1: He had a bit of mystery to him. He's just
Speaker 1: like a very like Jason Momoa in shape guy, darker
Speaker 1: complexion and tattoos everywhere. And then he's also French. He
Speaker 1: has a French accent as well, which like add that
Speaker 1: to it.
Speaker 3: Jock invited him over and Ryan didn't hesitate.
Speaker 4: For this one. I was like, I'm going.
Speaker 2: When he got to Jacques's house in the Hampton's, he
Speaker 2: was impressed. Jacques was a high level marketing executive with
Speaker 2: the lifestyle to match.
Speaker 1: He had this very cute, like cottagey kind of thing
Speaker 1: out there that had a pool. We went in the
Speaker 1: pool first, and he was very quiet, very like introverted,
Speaker 1: and for that like I can't sit in silence, so
Speaker 1: I'm just like wow, lahlah blah, talking for ever, just
Speaker 1: so like we weren't hit the silence again, still that
Speaker 1: air of mystery, and then we started making out in
Speaker 1: the pool and I just remember being like there was
Speaker 1: some electricity here I have never felt before, just this
Speaker 1: like raw magnetism. And then we had sex and it
Speaker 1: was the same thing, and I was just like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, this wow.
Speaker 2: After their fleeing, he and Jacques followed each other on Instagram.
Speaker 2: Summer was nearly over when they met, so Ryan returned
Speaker 2: to his regular teaching position in the city without seeing
Speaker 2: him again. Over the next few years, their only contact
Speaker 2: was the occasional EMOJIDM.
Speaker 3: That was until Ryan posted a photo from his family vacation.
Speaker 1: I was in Saint Bart's with my family and he
Speaker 1: had DMed me excited posted a picture. It was like,
Speaker 1: that's my favorite place on the planet. And he grew
Speaker 1: up on Saint Bart's. Then we started talking and immediately
Speaker 1: just very much back and forth, flirting, vulgar, not vulgar,
Speaker 1: like all the things. And if I feel something, I'm
Speaker 1: going to materialize it to words and share it with you.
Speaker 1: And so I shared with him like I had never
Speaker 1: felt something so electric, something so magnetic as the afternoon
Speaker 1: that we spent together, and I will never be able
Speaker 1: to stop thinking about it. And he's echoing the same
Speaker 1: thing back to me. And so then we were going
Speaker 1: back and forth, and it was just a matter from
Speaker 1: then who's going to go visit who first?
Speaker 2: Even though it was a few years since they met,
Speaker 2: their chemistry still felt electric. Ryan had moved back to
Speaker 2: New York City and Jacques was living in Miami, so
Speaker 2: Ryan me plans to go visit him there. A couple
Speaker 2: of days before Ryan was set to arrive, Jaques called,
Speaker 2: He's like, I've.
Speaker 1: Got some bad news. I have a friend that's going
Speaker 1: through something and she has the rest training order against
Speaker 1: her husband who has been physically abusing her, and she's
Speaker 1: taking her kid with her and needs a place to stay,
Speaker 1: so she's going to stay at my apartment.
Speaker 2: It wasn't ideal, but he was struck by Jacques's generosity.
Speaker 1: I'm just like, that's so nice of you. I'm so
Speaker 1: sorry that your friend is going through that.
Speaker 2: They weren't able to stay together at Jaques's place, but
Speaker 2: Jacques had a solution. A friend with an Airbnb said
Speaker 2: that they could use it at a discount, so Ryan
Speaker 2: paid him five hundred dollars for the place and boarded
Speaker 2: a plane to Miami.
Speaker 1: And I remember seeing him and this was the first
Speaker 1: time I was seeing him in four years, being like
Speaker 1: I am in big trouble. Immediately was just like ah,
Speaker 1: Like the heart started picking up all the things Butterflies
Speaker 1: was like.
Speaker 4: Here we go.
Speaker 2: Ryan took that first weekend with Jock slow. He already
Speaker 2: knew they had a magnetic attraction. He wanted to get
Speaker 2: to know Jack on a deeper level.
Speaker 1: I'm at this point in my life where like, I
Speaker 1: want to start my next chapter, my settling down chapter,
Speaker 1: at least in terms of personal life.
Speaker 2: They stayed up late and talked about their lives. Jock
Speaker 2: had multiple citizenships, spoke four languages, and owned homes around
Speaker 2: the world, all thanks to his illustrious career.
Speaker 1: She was a very decorated marketing professional. He had worked
Speaker 1: for three huge luxury designer brands over in their Europe offices.
Speaker 1: He had worked for one of the most premier hotel
Speaker 1: organizations as.
Speaker 4: Well, which was the job that he was in at
Speaker 4: the time.
Speaker 1: I was just like, Wow, you are in aggressive, impressive.
Speaker 2: He traveled for work nearly every week and was really
Speaker 2: well connected, which came with a lot of perks. It
Speaker 2: wasn't just his resume that impressed Ryan, it was also
Speaker 2: his commitment to health and fitness.
Speaker 1: He would get up at five or five thirty every morning.
Speaker 1: First thing he would do is work out. He also
Speaker 1: didn't drink, so it was all these values that I
Speaker 1: was connecting to, but what the stickiness was was the
Speaker 1: emotional vulnerability and access that he was giving.
Speaker 2: Like Ryan, he was present, emotionally intelligent, empathetic.
Speaker 1: We talked at the end of the weekend, right before
Speaker 1: I was about to leave, so I was like, well,
Speaker 1: what are we doing here?
Speaker 4: Am I coming back down here? Are you coming up
Speaker 4: to visit me?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 1: Are we moving forward with this? And he was like yeah, absolutely,
Speaker 1: and so I left excited, but so like, what are
Speaker 1: we then? Which sounds crazy after spending one weekend, but
Speaker 1: again for me, I was like, I've known you since
Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, We've talked throughout these past four years, so
Speaker 1: like a foundation has been set.
Speaker 2: Jacques was the full package, the right guy that Ryan
Speaker 2: had been waiting for.
Speaker 3: When he went back to New York, Ryan was almost giddy.
Speaker 1: We were texting like all day every day, pretty much
Speaker 1: like first text in the morning, last text at night.
Speaker 2: They made plans for Ryan to go to Miami again
Speaker 2: just a few weeks later, and this time he stayed
Speaker 2: at Jack's apartment. It was all white, with tall ceilings
Speaker 2: and big glass windows. Ryan could see himself spending a
Speaker 2: lot more time there and so.
Speaker 1: I asked him, like, what is this, Like I left unsure,
Speaker 1: are we still like dating around in the places that
Speaker 1: we live whatever? He was like, oh no, ever since
Speaker 1: you left, I've stopped that.
Speaker 3: That night they made it a and to seal the deal, he.
Speaker 1: Tells me that he loves me, and usually I'm the
Speaker 1: person that gives that away real early in a relationship,
Speaker 1: and I was just like, finally, like somebody is as
Speaker 1: emotionally open and ready to be vulnerable as I am,
Speaker 1: and like feels as deeply as I do, and all
Speaker 1: these things.
Speaker 2: They started dating long distance, but that didn't stop them
Speaker 2: from daydreaming about their future together.
Speaker 1: He was like, I definitely want to get married to somebody.
Speaker 1: I do think I want to have kids, and like
Speaker 1: whenever we talked about that, it was always talking about
Speaker 1: it as I want you as that person.
Speaker 3: The distance became excruciating.
Speaker 2: After every visit, Ryan fell more in love with Jacques
Speaker 2: and with Miami.
Speaker 1: I would crying the uber on the way to the airport,
Speaker 1: cry on the plane, and a part of it was
Speaker 1: because yes, I was saying goodbye to him, but also
Speaker 1: it is because like I was saying goodbye to Miami,
Speaker 1: and I loved being here, loved being here.
Speaker 2: One day, when Ryan was back in New York, he
Speaker 2: got a surprising text from Jacques.
Speaker 1: He sends me a picture in like the middle of
Speaker 1: the afternoon on a weekday, and it's of his left
Speaker 1: ring finger and it says three nineteen twenty twenty three.
Speaker 2: That date was their anniversary, the day they made it official.
Speaker 1: And like, for me back then, I was like, I
Speaker 1: make moves like that, scary moves like that, Like nobody's
Speaker 1: ever done that for me. And so I was just like, Wow,
Speaker 1: this is real, real, real, real, And so I was
Speaker 1: just like hook line sinker, like when are we making
Speaker 1: this happen?
Speaker 4: When am I moving here?
Speaker 2: They started making plans for Ryan to move in. He
Speaker 2: couldn't get a full time teaching position in Miami until
Speaker 2: next year, so he'd have to pick up classes when
Speaker 2: he could.
Speaker 4: And so I'm going.
Speaker 1: To get I don't know how many classes, but I'm
Speaker 1: like very much paid per class, So I'm going to
Speaker 1: be taking a pay cut from what I have right now.
Speaker 1: And he was like, don't worry about a thing. I
Speaker 1: will cover Rent, I will cover all this stuff, maybe
Speaker 1: help out with groceries every week.
Speaker 4: And I was like I can do that.
Speaker 2: At the time, Jacques was the CMO at a luxury
Speaker 2: hotel brand. He could afford to cover some of their
Speaker 2: bills Before they took the big step to move in together.
Speaker 3: Ryan invited him.
Speaker 2: To meet his parents, who'd also relocated to Florida. His
Speaker 2: parents loved the idea of Ryan being close by. When
Speaker 2: they met for dinner, Jacques made a big first impression.
Speaker 1: He was very good at sharing all these stories about
Speaker 1: how this hotel brand had locations all around the world
Speaker 1: and that he had been to ninety percent of them
Speaker 1: on like the company's.
Speaker 4: Jet with the CEO, all of this stuff.
Speaker 2: In fact, Jacques arrived at the dinner straight from a
Speaker 2: day of work at the CEO's estate.
Speaker 1: It showed up having just gotten back from his house
Speaker 1: working there for the day and everything, saying that he
Speaker 1: had a great salad that was prepared by his chef
Speaker 1: and all these things and whatnot. First name dropping, first
Speaker 1: name dropping, and so I was just like, okay, cool.
Speaker 2: Jacques seemed a bit nervous, but he passed the test
Speaker 2: for Ryan's parents after.
Speaker 3: That and moved to Miami. Was just a matter of logistics.
Speaker 1: We had settled on a date of end of August
Speaker 1: for me to move to Miami, and she was like,
Speaker 1: I'll take care of everything. You just have to pay
Speaker 1: for the flight.
Speaker 3: When he got there, life with Jacques was better than
Speaker 3: he imagined.
Speaker 1: It was like honeymoon. I was also just like honeymooning
Speaker 1: with Miami. I was just over indexing on joy, cooking
Speaker 1: at home every night, you know, going to walk his dog,
Speaker 1: our dog, and so it very much felt like, Wow,
Speaker 1: this is it.
Speaker 2: He knew Jacques was the one, and it came from
Speaker 2: the simple moments.
Speaker 1: I was there at the park with him and he
Speaker 1: was like holding my hand or had his arm around
Speaker 1: me and all this stuff, and I was just like, wow,
Speaker 1: you are really proud to be my boyfriend.
Speaker 2: Everything was going smoothly until one day Jacques came home
Speaker 2: and said he quit his executive marketing job, just out
Speaker 2: of the blue.
Speaker 4: He just walked in one day and was like, I
Speaker 4: just quit. I was like what.
Speaker 2: The announcement rattled Ryan, especially considering that Jacques assured him
Speaker 2: that he would support the couple financially.
Speaker 1: But he owned two apartments in Paris and so he
Speaker 1: was getting like a steady stream monthly income from.
Speaker 2: That, and he was well connected in the marketing world.
Speaker 2: He said he'd find another job no problem, and Ryan
Speaker 2: trusted him. Ryan focused on settling into the new city,
Speaker 2: making friends, and exploring Miami's music scene. One of his
Speaker 2: favorite bands was coming into town, so he borrowed his
Speaker 2: dad's credit card to get pre sale tickets. A few
Speaker 2: weeks later, Ryan logged in to pay off the bill.
Speaker 1: The balance was a lot higher than what the tickets
Speaker 1: were for, and so I look and there's two line items.
Speaker 1: One was Ticketmaster, the other was for nine hundred and
Speaker 1: ninety dollars, and it was something something like a name
Speaker 1: of some sorts Fort Lauderdale, And so I was like, okay,
Speaker 1: that's weird.
Speaker 2: He contested the charge and submitted a report, and he
Speaker 2: told his parents to keep him posted about the fraudulent charge.
Speaker 2: A few weeks later, he was in between teaching classes
Speaker 2: when he got a text from his mom.
Speaker 3: She wanted to talk on the phone right away. Her
Speaker 3: formality scared him. He feared a family emergency.
Speaker 1: And so I called, and she goes, are you at
Speaker 1: home right now?
Speaker 4: And I was like no, and she was like great.
Speaker 1: And then my dad goes, hey, Ry, and I very
Speaker 1: much realized I was on speaker. Both of them were
Speaker 1: on the phone. That never happens. They were like, so
Speaker 1: we got the results back from American Express and it
Speaker 1: turns out that that charge is very real. It's shock
Speaker 1: and it's for a divorce lawyer. Did you know that
Speaker 1: he was married?
Speaker 2: Ryan's parents called in with news about a fraudulent charge
Speaker 2: on their credit card. They'd done a full investigation and
Speaker 2: traced the charge to a divorce lawyer in Fort Lauderdale.
Speaker 2: What they found was Jacques had met with a lawyer
Speaker 2: and he charged that meeting to their AMX.
Speaker 1: I started crying, freaking out, hysterics, and I was like,
Speaker 1: I'm going to call you in an hour.
Speaker 4: I have to go teach right now. So I hung up.
Speaker 1: I went in to teach the class somehow, and I'm
Speaker 1: just like, everything is falling apart very quickly. I get
Speaker 1: out of class. I rush out of there like Cruela
Speaker 1: Deville in one hundred and one Dalmatians Death, gripping the wheel,
Speaker 1: red eyed.
Speaker 4: Just like mad.
Speaker 1: And I'm talking to my parents about it. They're like,
Speaker 1: what are you going to do? And I was like,
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm going home right now to talk to
Speaker 1: this man. And they're like, obviously, you have to leave him.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean.
Speaker 2: Probably Ryan wanted answers he needed to hear Jacques explain himself.
Speaker 1: I go to our apartment and I throw the credit
Speaker 1: card at him sitting on the couch, and I screamed,
Speaker 1: do you recognize these numbers? And he's like, what are
Speaker 1: you talking about? Hands up on guard. I was just like,
Speaker 1: do you recognize these numbers? And he was like, why
Speaker 1: do you keep asking me that? And I was like,
Speaker 1: there was a credit card charge for over nine hundred
Speaker 1: dollars that was for a divorce lawyer based in Fort
Speaker 1: Lauderdale and the invoice had your name on it. And
Speaker 1: he was like, that's crazy. Why would I use your
Speaker 1: credit card to do that? And I was like, I
Speaker 1: don't know, like you tell me, and he was just
Speaker 1: so aggressively denying it, even though like the cold heart evidence.
Speaker 4: Was right there.
Speaker 3: They fought that whole night until Jacques finally confessed that, yes,
Speaker 3: he was in the process of getting divorced.
Speaker 1: He was basically saying things like it was all for
Speaker 1: a green card. We were dating, but we agreed to
Speaker 1: get married and whatever, and then you know, it ended,
Speaker 1: and he was using me like I was the provider
Speaker 1: and whatnot, and I had to get out of there
Speaker 1: basically saying things like that, and so for me, I
Speaker 1: was like, I don't know if there's really that much there.
Speaker 3: He said that using Ryan's credit card or his parents'
Speaker 3: credit card rather was just an accident, but that confession
Speaker 3: was quickly overshadowed by what Ryan discovered. Next.
Speaker 2: He wanted to search Jock's phone to see if there
Speaker 2: was anything else he was hiding.
Speaker 1: I was like, give me your phone, and so he
Speaker 1: hands it to me. I immediately go to his Instagram
Speaker 1: and his text messages, and there are over thirty forty
Speaker 1: conversations with all different guys. It varies from dirty talk
Speaker 1: to sending pictures to sending video to proof that he
Speaker 1: invited men over, dating back to when we had started
Speaker 1: dating in March, and all throughout.
Speaker 3: For each person he talked to, Jacques was putting on
Speaker 3: a totally.
Speaker 2: Different persona, and Ryan didn't recognize any of them.
Speaker 1: I remember distinctly saying to him, I do like dirty talk,
Speaker 1: especially if we're going to do long distance pictures, videos, whatever.
Speaker 1: I want to feel physically connected to you. And he's like,
Speaker 1: it's so outside of my comfort zone. But I'm gonna
Speaker 1: work on it. It never happened, never happened. And so
Speaker 1: the stuff that I was reading, even though it's something
Speaker 1: that I like doing, was to a level I would
Speaker 1: never say, and so I'm like screaming at him about that.
Speaker 1: You seem to have no problem.
Speaker 4: Being like this.
Speaker 2: Ryan scrolled through Jacques's messages with dozens of guys, furious
Speaker 2: and heartbroken, but also confused because Jacques didn't have one
Speaker 2: story about his life.
Speaker 3: He had many.
Speaker 1: There were so many different ways that he was talking
Speaker 1: to these guys where sometimes they would call him out
Speaker 1: and be like I thought you were seeing somebody, and
Speaker 1: he would respond with yeah, so like nothing's going to
Speaker 1: happen here, And then the next time if somebody said
Speaker 1: that to him, he'd be like, yeah, but I can.
Speaker 4: Do whatever I want, or yeah a word.
Speaker 1: In an open relationship where like he doesn't have to
Speaker 1: know anything like that, And so I'm just reading all
Speaker 1: of this those messages he couldn't deny, and surprisingly he didn't,
Speaker 1: but he created a story.
Speaker 2: Joqu's story was that these flings happened before he started
Speaker 2: dating Ryan, but it was a bold lie, considering Ryan
Speaker 2: could see the time stamps on the messages and knew
Speaker 2: it wasn't true, so he decided to DM one of
Speaker 2: the guys.
Speaker 1: And so there was this one guy that I got
Speaker 1: the sense that he had been over a lot. I
Speaker 1: just said, hey, what's up, and he goes, hey, because
Speaker 1: my front grid had pictures of me and Shock together,
Speaker 1: can you let your boyfriend know that he owes me
Speaker 1: sixty dollars?
Speaker 4: And I was like Jesus Christ.
Speaker 1: I said, I'll do my best, but I'm going to
Speaker 1: let you know you're probably not going to see that
Speaker 1: money back.
Speaker 2: Ryan confronted him again and that's when he saw a
Speaker 2: new side of Shock.
Speaker 1: He then starts to have a full on breakdown in
Speaker 1: front of me and was just losing it. I'd never
Speaker 1: seen him really cry before, and he was like, you know,
Speaker 1: I grew up as kind of a fat kid, was
Speaker 1: bullied a lot, was not looked at in any sort of,
Speaker 1: you know, attractive way, And ever since I started working
Speaker 1: on myself, I've been getting a lot of attention. And
Speaker 1: it's the first time that I'm really receiving that. And
Speaker 1: I obviously enjoyed it, but then it's very clear that
Speaker 1: I enjoyed it too much, and I never meant to
Speaker 1: hurt you.
Speaker 2: Seeing Jacques distraught and vulnerable triggered Ryan's need to help
Speaker 2: to make it better.
Speaker 1: There is a part inside me that did not want
Speaker 1: to admit that what I had been waiting for for
Speaker 1: quite some time that had finally arrived. I was not
Speaker 1: ready to let go. I was really holding on to like, no, this,
Speaker 1: I found him, this is it. It's my person. I'm
Speaker 1: fighting for this.
Speaker 2: It also reminded him of his own rock bottom ten
Speaker 2: years earlier, when his boyfriend at the time stupped by
Speaker 2: him and got him the help he needed to get sober.
Speaker 1: When I had hit rock bottom, my boyfriend at the
Speaker 1: time had stayed with me, and I was like, this
Speaker 1: feels like Jacques's emotional rock bottom, and this is my
Speaker 1: chance to pay it forward and be there for my partner,
Speaker 1: and so I decided to stay.
Speaker 2: Joaqu was talking about his mistakes openly with Ryan, which
Speaker 2: felt like the right step. And Ryan knew that relationships
Speaker 2: were nuanced.
Speaker 1: I had always worked through, or tried my best to
Speaker 1: work through the tougher moments in relationships, because realistically they're
Speaker 1: not perfect. He was willing to go to therapy by
Speaker 1: himself and with me. He was showing up and fully surrendering,
Speaker 1: which for me is what I did ten years ago
Speaker 1: for myself.
Speaker 3: So they set up new boundaries, boundaries that Jock agreed to.
Speaker 1: He was agreeing to anything I said. You will not
Speaker 1: have access to Instagram. Instagram is now under my email
Speaker 1: and my phone number, and I'm changing the password and whatnot.
Speaker 2: Ryan was comfortable giving Jaques a second chance, but when
Speaker 2: he told his.
Speaker 3: Parents, they were not happy. They had done their own
Speaker 3: research on Jock.
Speaker 1: When the divorce lawyer charge came through. They had done
Speaker 1: their research and found that when you google him, it's
Speaker 1: his LinkedIn and then it's a court case.
Speaker 2: Jacques was named in a lawsuit over an illegal sublet
Speaker 2: and unpaid rent scheme in the Hamptons. The case amounted
Speaker 2: to fraud worth over one hundred thousand dollars, but there
Speaker 2: was an explanation. It was his ex husband, the one
Speaker 2: from the green card marriage. He was actually the one
Speaker 2: responsible for those charges, but because they were married, Jacques
Speaker 2: was also named on the lawsuit.
Speaker 1: I'm talking to my parents about it and they're bringing
Speaker 1: up the court case. I'm like, no, he's been cleared
Speaker 1: of that. They had no case or whatever, and I'm
Speaker 1: waiting for him to get the documents, like, I'll send
Speaker 1: it to you.
Speaker 2: Ryan's parents didn't buy it, and in fact, it created
Speaker 2: a rift between them, the first one they ever had.
Speaker 1: My mom and I did not talk. I would occasionally
Speaker 1: talk to my dad.
Speaker 2: Ryan doubled down and said he wouldn't be coming home
Speaker 2: for Thanksgiving if Jacques couldn't come too. He felt that
Speaker 2: Jacques deserved a second chance, just like everyone else, and
Speaker 2: his parents just didn't understand. Soon, Jacques was no longer
Speaker 2: the problem. The problem became Ryan's parents.
Speaker 1: When I started to like not believe him and start
Speaker 1: to question him, he would always say, you sound just
Speaker 1: like your mom right now.
Speaker 2: During this time, Ryan needed to buy a new car
Speaker 2: for work. With their relationships seemingly on the right track,
Speaker 2: he and Jacque decided to go in on their dream
Speaker 2: car together.
Speaker 4: We both really.
Speaker 1: Wanted to Ford Bronco really badly, and so we had
Speaker 1: bought one. He said that we're not going to get
Speaker 1: approved for it if my name's on it, because my
Speaker 1: credit's really bad because I just bought this apartment and
Speaker 1: sold the other one.
Speaker 4: And so I was like, oh, that's fine, Like I'll put.
Speaker 1: My name on it, and he was like, we'll just
Speaker 1: split the monthly payments and whatnot.
Speaker 3: They ordered the car and had it fully customized.
Speaker 1: It was all in ninety two thousand dollars, which was
Speaker 1: fine with because for me, I was still like, I
Speaker 1: can afford half of the monthly payments as long as.
Speaker 4: You're paying half.
Speaker 3: Then the first car payment came.
Speaker 4: I Venmo requested him for it.
Speaker 1: He gets it back to me immediately, and then I
Speaker 1: get all the emails from Venmo. It's all that transaction,
Speaker 1: and then there's one from like twenty minutes before that
Speaker 1: says that I paid Jock eight hundred dollars, and I
Speaker 1: was like, no, I did. I requested something around that
Speaker 1: from him, but I did not pay him, and so
Speaker 1: I was like, that's weird. So before I like bring
Speaker 1: it up, I was like, let me go into my app,
Speaker 1: look at the ledger. It's very much there that I
Speaker 1: paid him eight hundred dollars. And then there's also me
Speaker 1: paying one hundred and eighty dollars two days before, and
Speaker 1: then about one hundred and fifty a day before that.
Speaker 4: I for sure did not do any of those.
Speaker 2: But Ryan, I never got an email receipt about these payments,
Speaker 2: so I.
Speaker 1: Was like, let me look at the trash bin, and
Speaker 1: that's where the emails were. There was the only two
Speaker 1: emails sitting in there. And that's when I absolutely knew
Speaker 1: that it was him, because I don't delete emails because
Speaker 1: I'm afraid I'm gonna need something, so I archive all
Speaker 1: my emails, and so he had gone into my phone,
Speaker 1: paid himself, and then went into my email and cleared
Speaker 1: the history of it.
Speaker 2: There it was proof that Jacques was not only stealing
Speaker 2: money from him, but he was covering it up.
Speaker 1: And it was after the fact of that instance where like,
Speaker 1: you hit to me what I called your rock bottom,
Speaker 1: but it turns out it's not.
Speaker 4: This is just who you are. It's just who you are.
Speaker 2: That was that when Ryan made this discovery, Jaques was
Speaker 2: out of the house, so he took the opportunity to run.
Speaker 1: He was out walking his dog, and I got as
Speaker 1: much stuff as I could of mine and left called
Speaker 1: my parents. My mom and I were both hysterically crying
Speaker 1: over the phone, just because, like my dad said, his
Speaker 1: seventies on my mom's in her sixties, and I lost
Speaker 1: being able to go see her. I was going to
Speaker 1: do that in October and I was going to do
Speaker 1: that November and I didn't, and I even canceled going
Speaker 1: to Thanksgiving with them because I was like, I'm not
Speaker 1: going to Thanksgiving if my boyfriend's not allowed to come
Speaker 1: to Thanksgiving kind of thing. And I said no to
Speaker 1: my parents because of this. I felt so bad. I
Speaker 1: felt so sorry because like I didn't believe my parents
Speaker 1: or I didn't want to listen to them, and it sucked.
Speaker 1: That's just time that I'll never get back that he stole.
Speaker 1: And granted it could have been a lot longer. Could
Speaker 1: have signed off for the rest of my life with
Speaker 1: this man and therefore signed off from the rest of
Speaker 1: my life with my parents.
Speaker 2: His parents forgave him immediately, but the process of leaving
Speaker 2: Jacques was just beginning then.
Speaker 1: It was very much like Operation Rescue, and so I
Speaker 1: stayed in a hotel.
Speaker 4: For a week.
Speaker 2: Ryan thought he was going to spend the rest of
Speaker 2: his life with this man, and now he wasn't sure
Speaker 2: if anything.
Speaker 3: He'd been told was true.
Speaker 2: He needed to talk to Jacques's ex husband, you know,
Speaker 2: in the Green Card marriage.
Speaker 1: I was just like, I don't think I can sink
Speaker 1: any lower right now, so let's at least say so.
Speaker 4: I was like, Hey, this is Ryan.
Speaker 1: I was dating Jacques and just broke up with him,
Speaker 1: and I just loved to talk to you about your experience.
Speaker 1: The first thing that he said to me was that
Speaker 1: man is scum and deserves to be in jail. And
Speaker 1: I was just like, okay, we can talk, we can talk.
Speaker 2: His ex had a lot to say about Jaques, especially
Speaker 2: the lies he discovered in their marriage.
Speaker 1: Jacques had claimed that not only was he French and
Speaker 1: therefore a citizen of there, he was also a dual
Speaker 1: citizen of Israel and he had fought in the IDF.
Speaker 1: They were in their government interview before their wedding and
Speaker 1: the official had asked Jacques, have you ever served in
Speaker 1: an international military service? And Jaques just flat out and
Speaker 1: said no. And his ex sat next to him being
Speaker 1: like in his mind, like obviously not going to bring
Speaker 1: up in front of a government official, but like, why
Speaker 1: are you lying to this person?
Speaker 3: Did he ever fight in the IDF? Or was that
Speaker 3: another lie?
Speaker 2: All those stories Jacques told him about how his ex
Speaker 2: husband was leeching off him, the opposite was true. Ryan
Speaker 2: and Jacques's X talked almost every week for those first
Speaker 2: few months they were both members of a crappy club.
Speaker 1: He is such a good guy and in their relationship
Speaker 1: was the provider and was so generous with Jacques. Again
Speaker 1: really believed that he also had found this person.
Speaker 2: Ryan also found a mutual friend, someone who'd known Jacques
Speaker 2: in Saint Bart's. He'd been invited to Jacques's childhood home,
Speaker 2: which was a huge mansion.
Speaker 4: He looked it up. It's an airbnb that he rented.
Speaker 2: After Ryan got out of the relationship and started to
Speaker 2: see the deception and lies for what they were, he
Speaker 2: developed a new theory about Jacques. Jacques had always seemed
Speaker 2: to be so perceptive. He always knew what Ryan was
Speaker 2: thinking and what he was worried about before he even
Speaker 2: said anything. But maybe it was more sinister than just intuition.
Speaker 2: When Jacques was out of the apartment, Ryan would talk
Speaker 2: on the phone to his friends, his parents, his therapist.
Speaker 1: He has a ring camera or whatever for his dog,
Speaker 1: and he would pick up on the conversations and listen
Speaker 1: to them. He listened to every single one of my
Speaker 1: therapy sessions. He would leave the apartment and sit somewhere else,
Speaker 1: but he was very much tuning in and listening to
Speaker 1: the entire hour. That's like the long con of it all,
Speaker 1: which is just like I need to know what is
Speaker 1: making this guy tick right now so I can hold
Speaker 1: on and keep pulling from him.
Speaker 2: No wonder he was so intuitive. He was listening in
Speaker 2: on Ryan's therapy sessions all along. It was total manipulation
Speaker 2: to make Ryan feel like Jacques truly solemn, understood him,
Speaker 2: loved him. How much money did Ryan lose in this relationship?
Speaker 2: This is what he estimates.
Speaker 1: It is fifty eight thousand dollars this cars, but under
Speaker 1: my name. Obviously, I took it with me when I left,
Speaker 1: and at some point I was like, this is stupid
Speaker 1: for me to have, and so I went to sell it, thinking,
Speaker 1: oh my god, I'm gonna make money off of this.
Speaker 4: This is great.
Speaker 1: Apparently I was kind of an idiot to not read
Speaker 1: the fine print and just trust. But we had bought it,
Speaker 1: I think twenty thousand dollars over MSRP because at that
Speaker 1: point Ford Broncos were so heavy in demand, and then
Speaker 1: in a matter of four months nobody really wants them.
Speaker 1: And so when I went to sell it, I sold
Speaker 1: it into a loss of forty two thousand dollars.
Speaker 2: Ryan stayed in Florida, and so did Jock in the
Speaker 2: same apartment. Ryan doesn't want to leave Miami because he
Speaker 2: loves it there.
Speaker 3: They have run into each other from a distance.
Speaker 1: I saw him walking into his building because unfortunately, part
Speaker 1: of my commute is to drive by that building. And
Speaker 1: he was walking in with his dog, wearing a black hoodie,
Speaker 1: and I just like and I realized that the back
Speaker 1: of his sweatshirt says sad Dad's on it, which is
Speaker 1: from the National the Band, a concert that I had
Speaker 1: gone to right before I left New York to come
Speaker 1: down here he's wearing my sweatshirt. I thought that I
Speaker 1: had lost that sweatshirt.
Speaker 2: It's strange watching from the sidelines as Jacques continues a
Speaker 2: life of deception and lies. As for that tattoo that
Speaker 2: Jacques got, the one with their anniversary date on his finger,
Speaker 2: it was one of many tattoos Jaq had, tattoos.
Speaker 3: That Ryan now sees differently.
Speaker 1: He has one it's like a dove and then it
Speaker 1: goes into a name and I was like, who's that
Speaker 1: and he says, oh, that was my friend in France
Speaker 1: and we were on motorcycles together and I watched a
Speaker 1: car hit him and he died, and now looking back,
Speaker 1: I'm just like that was an next boyfriend. That was
Speaker 1: an next boyfriend for me, Like I have to have
Speaker 1: some fun or like find some comedy in it. I
Speaker 1: said to my friend, I wonder how I died. I
Speaker 1: wonder what my story is. I'd really love to know.
Speaker 2: Ryan's ready to let go of the shame and self
Speaker 2: blame he felt after this betrayal, and telling his story
Speaker 2: is part of that release. We end all of our
Speaker 2: weekly episodes with the same question, why did you want
Speaker 2: to tell your story?
Speaker 1: I'm hoping that this is the final release for me.
Speaker 1: This is no longer just mine. This is somebody else's
Speaker 1: to connect to and be like I didn't think this
Speaker 1: could happen to me, but like it actually can, because
Speaker 1: it can happen to any Thank God, I'm not the
Speaker 1: only one.
Speaker 3: On the next episode of Betrayal.
Speaker 4: People who are in this incredibly vulnerable spot of trying
Speaker 4: to be better for their children. If I were evil,
Speaker 4: I would leave that one alone.
Speaker 3: You know that seems like a line.
Speaker 2: If you would like to reach out to the Betrayal
Speaker 2: team or want to tell us your betrayal story, email
Speaker 2: us at Betrayal pod at gmail dot com. That's Betrayal
Speaker 2: pod at gmail dot com.
Speaker 3: We're grateful for your support.
Speaker 2: One way to show support is by subscribing to our
Speaker 2: show on Apple Podcasts, and don't forget to rate and
Speaker 2: review Betrayal. Five star reviews go a long way. A
Speaker 2: big thank you to all of our listeners. Betrayal is
Speaker 2: a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment
Speaker 2: Group and partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is executive
Speaker 2: produced by Glass and Jennifer Fasin, hosted and produced by
Speaker 2: me Andrea Gunning, written and produced by Monique Leboard, also
Speaker 2: produced by Ben Fetterman. Associate producers are Christen Mercury and
Speaker 2: Caitlin Golden. Our iHeart team is Ali Perry and Jessica Krinchech.
Speaker 2: Audio editing and mixing by Matt del Vecchio, Additional editing
Speaker 2: support from Nico Ruka and Tanner Robbins.
Speaker 3: Betrayal's theme composed by Oliver Bains.
Speaker 2: Music library provided by mybe Music and For more podcasts
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Speaker 2: you get your podcasts.