1 00:00:00,800 --> 00:00:04,040 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney alongside 2 00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:06,920 Speaker 1: my co host Matt Miller. Every business day we bring 3 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:11,520 Speaker 1: you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts, along 4 00:00:11,560 --> 00:00:15,560 Speaker 1: with essential market moving news. Find the Bloomberg Markets podcast 5 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:18,479 Speaker 1: called Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts, and 6 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:22,759 Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot com slash podcast. Let's get to Lovely 7 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:25,919 Speaker 1: in studio now. We've been talking about UM having her on, 8 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 1: and we're excited to get you on Lovely. And you're 9 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:32,080 Speaker 1: the CEO of BM Technologies. It's among the largest digital 10 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:35,640 Speaker 1: banking platforms in the US. I wonder how much can 11 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:38,480 Speaker 1: be done, And I was thinking about this when coin 12 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:42,680 Speaker 1: Base went public, or at least had their had their 13 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:46,600 Speaker 1: direct listing last week. It'd be great if I could 14 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:50,960 Speaker 1: have my bank accounts somewhere, trade things like you know, 15 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:56,160 Speaker 1: digital currencies, stocks and bonds, and also somehow input my 16 00:00:57,000 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 1: employment details so that my tack UH filings would be automatic. 17 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 1: Can Can something like that ever happened with with an 18 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:09,560 Speaker 1: online with a digital banking platform? Yes? Absolutely, thanks so 19 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:11,880 Speaker 1: much for having me Um. I think a couple of 20 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:14,839 Speaker 1: years ago we saw a lot of exuberance and excitement 21 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:17,880 Speaker 1: about fintech. Spintech, we're really coming in and saying, hey, 22 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 1: banking your your old school, you're not doing this in 23 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:24,479 Speaker 1: a consumer friendly way. We can come and, uh, really 24 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:28,440 Speaker 1: disrupt what's happening and provide a way better customer experience. 25 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:31,560 Speaker 1: And many um you know players came in, did that 26 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:36,399 Speaker 1: robin Hood coin based, you know, so Fi, chime et cetera, 27 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 1: b M Technologies, etcetera. But what a lot of them 28 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:44,039 Speaker 1: started doing was really unbundling financial services where it was 29 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:47,319 Speaker 1: one product at a time. Someone's gonna do personal loans 30 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:50,280 Speaker 1: better than what exists today. Someone's gonna do you know, 31 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 1: investing better than what exists today. Someone's gonna do banking 32 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 1: better than what exists today. But it was all separate 33 00:01:57,360 --> 00:02:00,120 Speaker 1: rather than you know, really creating a fulls of a 34 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:03,840 Speaker 1: digital banking platform. And what is now happening is the 35 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:09,000 Speaker 1: realization that we can create a technology platform where all 36 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:12,160 Speaker 1: of this is weep together. Maybe that institution doesn't even 37 00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:15,400 Speaker 1: have to provide all of those services. They can plug 38 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:18,680 Speaker 1: in through a PI. Is the best in breeds from investing, 39 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:22,520 Speaker 1: from crypto trading, from banking for advice, um, and that 40 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:25,919 Speaker 1: is what we're seeing and that can absolutely happen. I'd 41 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:27,519 Speaker 1: love to get your thoughts, lovely in a kind of 42 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:30,960 Speaker 1: about how your business has been impacted, how it has 43 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:33,959 Speaker 1: changed over the past fourteen months with this pandemic. You know, 44 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:36,440 Speaker 1: we're hearing the obviously lots of stories that people are 45 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:39,400 Speaker 1: doing more and more of their banking digitally. How has 46 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:43,960 Speaker 1: it impacted your business? Absolutely? I think in general, the 47 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:48,800 Speaker 1: pandemic force and acceleration of digitization, the use of technology 48 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 1: forcing all segments, all generations to begin using technology for 49 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:58,920 Speaker 1: all sorts of things, grocery and e commerce, uh and 50 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:01,400 Speaker 1: banking being one of them. And so as it relates 51 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:04,320 Speaker 1: to our business, we did see exponential growth last year 52 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:07,959 Speaker 1: in our new business lines. We saw si plus growth 53 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:13,160 Speaker 1: and deposits, we saw two plus growth and spend over 54 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:15,760 Speaker 1: the year, and so overall we saw a lot of 55 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:18,680 Speaker 1: consumers logging into their app, a lot more, using a 56 00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 1: lot of the features, the functionalities, the saving and budgeting tools, 57 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:27,960 Speaker 1: and obviously increased usage spend balances across the board. Does 58 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:31,480 Speaker 1: it matter what, um what platform people use or I 59 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 1: mean like iOS versus Android, Are you agnostic or do 60 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:40,520 Speaker 1: you head for that? Absolutely agnostic? We have to move towards. 61 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 1: You know, if if people want to have a truly 62 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:46,640 Speaker 1: better banking experience, you can't create barriers like that. And 63 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 1: so not only iOS, Android, but really across different channels, 64 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:55,120 Speaker 1: whether that's your phone, whether that's you know, online mobile, 65 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:58,200 Speaker 1: whether that's being able to access through Alexa. You know, 66 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:00,720 Speaker 1: we're coming into a world where we use and access 67 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:02,920 Speaker 1: many different devices, and we should be able to do 68 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 1: banking and everything else that's important to us through various 69 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 1: different channels and devices. And I think that's the direction 70 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:12,640 Speaker 1: people are heading. And so as b M Technologies, BM 71 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:15,400 Speaker 1: Technologies lovely and love to get a sense of kind 72 00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:18,360 Speaker 1: of where what's the kind of environment for your company 73 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:22,400 Speaker 1: and where do you see growth going forward? Yeah, so, 74 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:24,280 Speaker 1: as you had mentioned in the beginning, we are one 75 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:27,680 Speaker 1: of the largest digital banking platforms in the country today 76 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 1: and we have over two million account holders and and 77 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:33,920 Speaker 1: we're growing quite rapidly. We did go public earlier this 78 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:37,280 Speaker 1: year through his fact vehicle where our tickers b M, 79 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 1: t x UM and you know, for for us, it's 80 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:43,680 Speaker 1: it's really about how do you continue to expand the 81 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:47,360 Speaker 1: digital banking experience in the most profitable, high growth way 82 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 1: while still addressing customer pain points, and so a lot 83 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 1: of players out there are taking a director consumer approach. 84 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:57,080 Speaker 1: Bank Mobile is actually taking a bat data the approach 85 00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:00,800 Speaker 1: and something called banking as a service. Our belief is 86 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 1: that every single customer in this world, really, you know, 87 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:08,720 Speaker 1: would benefit from having access to financial services, and that 88 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:12,440 Speaker 1: banks shouldn't be the only one to have the ability 89 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 1: to offer this service. You know, every business, every employer, 90 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 1: every government entity should be able to offer banking. And 91 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:22,559 Speaker 1: that is where you get into the strategy of banking 92 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:25,720 Speaker 1: as a service. And that is uh the vertical that 93 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:29,080 Speaker 1: that we are most invested in creating and helping non 94 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:32,279 Speaker 1: banks get into the banking business with fully branded banking 95 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:35,680 Speaker 1: services to be able to create more loyalty, more engagement 96 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:39,040 Speaker 1: with their customers and with their employees. Lovely and thank 97 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 1: you so much for joining us. They really appreciate that. 98 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:44,960 Speaker 1: A really interesting story, a growth story here on the 99 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:49,039 Speaker 1: consumer banking front as digital plays a bigger and bigger 100 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:52,360 Speaker 1: role in consumer banking. Lovely and sid Do chair CEO 101 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:56,160 Speaker 1: and founder of BM Technologies. Kind of a fascinating story there. 102 00:05:56,200 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 1: I know, just speaking for myself, I'm doing much more 103 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:02,239 Speaker 1: of my day to day consumer banking on the digital 104 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:04,920 Speaker 1: platform that I did prior to the pandemic, and I 105 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:06,960 Speaker 1: think we're hearing from a lot of financial institutions that 106 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:11,039 Speaker 1: consumers across the border having a similar experience. So lots 107 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:18,240 Speaker 1: of opportunity for technological innovation. Matt let's switch gears talk 108 00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:21,200 Speaker 1: about the fixed income markets. No better person to do 109 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:24,960 Speaker 1: that with than r J. Gallows, senior portfolio manager for 110 00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 1: fixed income is also ahead of the missile bond group 111 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 1: at Federated Hermes. R J. Thanks so much for joining 112 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 1: us once again. Here I'm looking at the ten year 113 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:36,720 Speaker 1: uh one point five eight percent. It doesn't scream inflation 114 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:40,160 Speaker 1: to me. Give us your thoughts here on the fixed 115 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:44,160 Speaker 1: income market and maybe some concerns creeping in about inflation. Yeah, well, 116 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 1: good morning, thanks for having me back. Um. You know, 117 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:49,039 Speaker 1: if you just look at an interday charge, it wasn't 118 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:51,400 Speaker 1: all that terribly long ago, and the tenure peaked out 119 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:54,280 Speaker 1: on March thirtieth, I think it was or one around 120 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:57,280 Speaker 1: one seventy seven, so you know we've traced give a 121 00:06:57,320 --> 00:07:01,039 Speaker 1: take twenty basis points since then. Um, at the time, 122 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:04,240 Speaker 1: the market was very focused on the reflation trade, let's 123 00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:07,480 Speaker 1: call it, maybe even the inflation trade um and I 124 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 1: think we still believe that that we're going to have 125 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:14,400 Speaker 1: a massive rate of growth as we come off the 126 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:17,560 Speaker 1: you know, difficulty economic period related to COVID that we've 127 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 1: been through. And we do feel inflation is biased upwards. 128 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:22,280 Speaker 1: We've seen it in the year of a year numbers. 129 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:24,360 Speaker 1: I just think the market might have gotten a little 130 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:26,280 Speaker 1: ahead of itself. Maybe at the end of March. If 131 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 1: you look on a year to day basis, you know 132 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:31,679 Speaker 1: that the ten year real yield is up about thirty 133 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 1: basis point thirty two basis points call it, and then 134 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 1: the break even on top of that is of about 135 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:40,280 Speaker 1: thirty six. So on the air real yields are up, 136 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:43,240 Speaker 1: they're still negatives very low. Probably we'll go up further, 137 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:46,239 Speaker 1: and inflation break evens are well north of two percent, 138 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 1: which the ft has to like. We think that the 139 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 1: retraceman yields we've seen so far is some of the 140 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:53,280 Speaker 1: fear came out of the market, but the trajectory is 141 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:57,120 Speaker 1: still upwards, and nominal yields, real yields break evens maybe 142 00:07:57,120 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 1: a little less so because inflation is starting to perk up, 143 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:02,520 Speaker 1: than these break evens are pricing in well north of two. 144 00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:04,800 Speaker 1: So we don't think that this most recent trade is 145 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:07,600 Speaker 1: time to get long bonds. We still like short. And 146 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:10,960 Speaker 1: on inflation, I mean, you see huge growth coming up, 147 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:15,040 Speaker 1: do we have huge inflation? And does it stick? I me, 148 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:17,720 Speaker 1: it's it's it's the key question. I think that everyone 149 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 1: understands base effect. You know, the price level doesn't fall 150 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:23,360 Speaker 1: all that much in American history what it did last springs, 151 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 1: the COVID shock set in so as we laugh that 152 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:28,120 Speaker 1: by twelve months the year of year numbers are high. 153 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:31,000 Speaker 1: But does it stick? And that's the key question. And 154 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:34,320 Speaker 1: everybody's debating. And I would say internally at our at 155 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:37,120 Speaker 1: our shop at Federated Herme's, we believe that the inflation 156 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 1: trajectory is upwards. Now there's some people and I would 157 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:42,720 Speaker 1: say it's almost like a demographic difference. People who were 158 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:45,599 Speaker 1: in this business in the seventies and eighties, Uh, you know, 159 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:47,480 Speaker 1: they feel like we need another Paul volcra I mean, 160 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:50,160 Speaker 1: they're they're they're much more concerned the inflation is not 161 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:53,400 Speaker 1: only gonna stick, but accelerate. People who've been in this business, 162 00:08:53,559 --> 00:08:55,839 Speaker 1: you know, called from the mid nineties on, you know, 163 00:08:56,320 --> 00:08:58,600 Speaker 1: seem to be like, I'm not so worried, and then 164 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:01,520 Speaker 1: the younger people didn't worry about aation at all because 165 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 1: they've never really seen it. Um Our view is is 166 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:06,199 Speaker 1: sort of in the middle. I think that inflation is 167 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:08,040 Speaker 1: going to have a tail wind. I don't think it's 168 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:10,160 Speaker 1: going to become unhinged. I don't think we're talking about three, 169 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:12,760 Speaker 1: four and five percent rates of inflation by any means. 170 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:14,840 Speaker 1: But I do think the Fed will have some success, 171 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:18,640 Speaker 1: some satisfaction after decades of being disappointed by inflation exceeding 172 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:21,800 Speaker 1: two percent. Their framework opens the door for them to 173 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:25,240 Speaker 1: react as opposed to be preemptive. That's a massive difference 174 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:28,559 Speaker 1: from Paul Bulker and the decades that followed him. All Right, So, 175 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:31,640 Speaker 1: if we're going to have inflation on any meaningful scale 176 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:36,320 Speaker 1: r J, presumably it has to come from wage inflation 177 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 1: as opposed to some of the other commodities that we're 178 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:39,600 Speaker 1: going to see a base effect over the next couple 179 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:42,120 Speaker 1: of quarters and some of the reported numbers. So do 180 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 1: you foresee presumably higher wage inflation in this economy of 181 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:50,000 Speaker 1: the next twelve eighty months. Well, I think that workers 182 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:53,440 Speaker 1: are going to be incentimized to come back in into 183 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:55,680 Speaker 1: the workplace, and some of that is going to involve 184 00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 1: enticing them with higher rates of pay. You know that 185 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:02,720 Speaker 1: translates to allery and wage increases, especially in the areas 186 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:05,280 Speaker 1: that were the most severely COVID effect of like travel 187 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:08,880 Speaker 1: and hospitality, etcetera. UM. I think over time, yeah, you 188 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:13,199 Speaker 1: will be seeing some higher rates of nominal pay increase. UM. Again, 189 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:16,960 Speaker 1: I'm not in the camp that it becomes an unhinged problem. 190 00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:19,719 Speaker 1: I believe. I actually believe the FED when they say 191 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:22,040 Speaker 1: we know what to do if inflation gets too high, 192 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 1: I think we all know what to do. They would tighten, 193 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 1: and they would tighten in fifty to seventy five bases 194 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:30,000 Speaker 1: point increment, something that hasn't been done in like forever. 195 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:32,160 Speaker 1: And I think if they did, what do you think 196 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:35,320 Speaker 1: financial conditions would do? They would roll over. People would 197 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:39,120 Speaker 1: be very nervous if the FED suddenly was spiking real 198 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 1: rates to Dallas inflation, and that's the tool they know works. 199 00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:45,080 Speaker 1: There has been an asymmetry in the Fed's toolkit. They 200 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:47,439 Speaker 1: can't seem to get inflation up. They know how to 201 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:50,599 Speaker 1: douase it, so they change their framework class August to 202 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:53,599 Speaker 1: becoming reactive let the inflation show up. It's called the 203 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:55,920 Speaker 1: bunker hill, you know, don't tighten city, see the whites 204 00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 1: of inflations eyes. That's the new new approach, very different 205 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:03,079 Speaker 1: than the re emptive forward looking uh tightenings that we 206 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:05,480 Speaker 1: saw in the past. Well and even then, don't tighten right. 207 00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:07,440 Speaker 1: The idea is that inflation is just gonna run right 208 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:10,760 Speaker 1: by you and be gone. Yeah, I mean I think not. 209 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:13,280 Speaker 1: So their framework is what they want inflation to rise 210 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:15,480 Speaker 1: above two. They wanted to have signs that it's going 211 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:18,480 Speaker 1: to stay above two before they tightened. So what if 212 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:20,400 Speaker 1: it goes above two and it hits two and a half, 213 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:22,240 Speaker 1: and I think one can infer the two and a 214 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:24,599 Speaker 1: half would be fine from the FED standpoint. If it 215 00:11:24,679 --> 00:11:26,040 Speaker 1: just stays there for a month or two it starts 216 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:28,839 Speaker 1: to roll back over then yeah, and then you do 217 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 1: have a problem. Their framework doesn't produce the tightening that 218 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 1: they want. Um. That's why I think they're in a 219 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:36,559 Speaker 1: sense pouring some men around their feet and say no, 220 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:39,839 Speaker 1: we're standing here and we want you the market to 221 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:42,240 Speaker 1: believe inflation goes up. Because inflation is a little bit 222 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:44,560 Speaker 1: of a game theory concept. Right. If if price setters, 223 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:48,360 Speaker 1: those who charge prices for goods and services believe inflation 224 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:50,559 Speaker 1: is rising, they put it into their pricing decisions and 225 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:53,400 Speaker 1: it becomes self fulfilling. So if the Fed can allow 226 00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:57,000 Speaker 1: that to happen without becoming you know, boiling over and 227 00:11:57,080 --> 00:12:00,439 Speaker 1: too hot, then you get the inflation you want and 228 00:12:00,679 --> 00:12:03,079 Speaker 1: you hopefully don't have a boiling over economy. If you 229 00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:05,200 Speaker 1: do have the boiling over economy on the inflation front, 230 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:07,560 Speaker 1: the FED knows what to do. So, I mean people 231 00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:09,560 Speaker 1: might criticize me. I used to work there a long 232 00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:12,640 Speaker 1: time ago, the New York. I think it's gonna work right. 233 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:14,400 Speaker 1: It's gonna take time, and rates are heading up in 234 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:16,280 Speaker 1: the meantime. All right, r J, thanks so much for 235 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:18,559 Speaker 1: joining us. As always, we appreciate your thoughts and input. 236 00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:22,320 Speaker 1: R J. Gallows, Senior portfolio manager Fixed Income, is also 237 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:25,080 Speaker 1: ahead of the amunicipal bond group at Federated HERM. He's 238 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:28,880 Speaker 1: giving us his thoughts on the credit markets and on inflation. 239 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:34,040 Speaker 1: Not too concerned here in the near term, Matt, let's 240 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:37,760 Speaker 1: talk about semiconductors here. If there's definitely been an issue 241 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:40,439 Speaker 1: with supply of these chips on a global scale, and 242 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:44,800 Speaker 1: that's happening ripple effects across the global economy, I'm talking 243 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:47,559 Speaker 1: about you know, just take global autos for example, a 244 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:49,520 Speaker 1: lot of the manufacturers saying that they can't meet the 245 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:52,679 Speaker 1: production goals because there aren't enough chips. Let's get the 246 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:54,839 Speaker 1: latest on what this means and how this might play out. 247 00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:58,120 Speaker 1: We do that with Rory Green, China, economists at T. S. 248 00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:01,040 Speaker 1: Lombard based in Soul South Rio. Rory, thanks so much 249 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:03,800 Speaker 1: for joining us here. Give us a sense of what's 250 00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:07,640 Speaker 1: going on in the semiconductor market right now. What's the 251 00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:13,400 Speaker 1: state of the market. Yea, COVID nineteen has really brought 252 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:17,480 Speaker 1: forward an acceleration in a structural demand shift. So it's 253 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:22,200 Speaker 1: not just autos, We're talking about demands for consumer products, 254 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:27,320 Speaker 1: data centers, um, whole range of different academies of demand 255 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:30,960 Speaker 1: really spiking off of COVID nineteen and likely to stay 256 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:34,319 Speaker 1: high for you know, a few years now. This is 257 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 1: a structural shift we're looking at, which were in the 258 00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:40,760 Speaker 1: very early early days on How do you expect it 259 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:44,160 Speaker 1: to hit GDP growth? I mean mostly I think of 260 00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:46,040 Speaker 1: the US and Europe, but I guess you're you're thinking 261 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:49,719 Speaker 1: about it more globally obviously, Yeah, that that's right, I 262 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:52,120 Speaker 1: think mainly, and the main hit is going to be 263 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:55,720 Speaker 1: it's a quarterly hit rather than a moment rather than 264 00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:57,880 Speaker 1: a hit to annual growth rates. So it will be 265 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:01,240 Speaker 1: a q on hit for the big auto producing nations 266 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:07,240 Speaker 1: from Germany, Mexico, slight slide drag in China, but over 267 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:10,000 Speaker 1: the course of the year, it's still expecting that these 268 00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:15,000 Speaker 1: um the production lost in Guan will be made up 269 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:20,920 Speaker 1: throughout the subsequent subsequent quarters. So it's rory. You know, 270 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:23,600 Speaker 1: I'm here. I'm here in Berlin, so I mean we 271 00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:28,560 Speaker 1: produce a ton of cars and motorcycles in this country obviously, 272 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:32,440 Speaker 1: and throughout Europe there big plants, and in the US, 273 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:33,800 Speaker 1: I know where all the plants are. I don't know 274 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:36,240 Speaker 1: much about the production in China except that you know, 275 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:39,320 Speaker 1: Elon Musk is making Tesla's there and everybody wants to 276 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:42,320 Speaker 1: have everybody's got a joint venture there. How much auto 277 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:48,280 Speaker 1: manufacturing is there actually in the world's second biggest economy. Yeah, 278 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:52,880 Speaker 1: it's it's a big manufacturing, big chunk of the economy. 279 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:55,400 Speaker 1: And they say everyone's got a joint venture there, and 280 00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:58,640 Speaker 1: then you've got a huge, huge chunk which is just 281 00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:02,960 Speaker 1: purely for the domestic domestic market as well. So it's 282 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:06,120 Speaker 1: it's a lot a lot of cars being made um 283 00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:10,880 Speaker 1: and a big employer as well, so the intent of 284 00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:13,040 Speaker 1: the labor intensity is very high. So it compared to 285 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:15,920 Speaker 1: Germany where it's all automated, in China it's still a 286 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:19,520 Speaker 1: big employer, So it's it's a very important sector in China. 287 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:22,880 Speaker 1: Or as we think about the global you know, the 288 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:26,320 Speaker 1: chip market, it's I guess what we've learned maybe starting 289 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:29,040 Speaker 1: with President Trump and some of the teriffs and then 290 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:32,000 Speaker 1: with the pandemic, is that you know a lot of 291 00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:37,160 Speaker 1: countries are thinking about reassuring some of their chip manufacturing capabilities. 292 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:38,840 Speaker 1: Do you expect that to be a real trend? Or 293 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:43,680 Speaker 1: we go to see more semiconductor manufacturing sites, say on 294 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:49,640 Speaker 1: continental Europe, in North America, certainly in North America, and 295 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:54,440 Speaker 1: Europe's plan is still a bit lacking because what we're 296 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:57,160 Speaker 1: talking about here is it needs a lot of political 297 00:15:57,240 --> 00:16:00,160 Speaker 1: and financial capsule to be invested to get it's a 298 00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:04,960 Speaker 1: reassuring process underway. Recording talking about ten twenty billion dollars 299 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:09,800 Speaker 1: to build just one fabricane one semi conductor fab So 300 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:14,880 Speaker 1: it needs a lot of investment, and Biden, I think, 301 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:18,760 Speaker 1: is putting this in place. Intel has made a very 302 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:23,520 Speaker 1: big effort, made a large bid to become the West, 303 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:27,680 Speaker 1: not just the US, the West geo politically secure manufacture, 304 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:31,480 Speaker 1: and he's decided to make investments accordingly. So I think 305 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:34,880 Speaker 1: we are going to see this trend increasing going ahead. 306 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:38,360 Speaker 1: But Europe still seems a bit called. Whether they really 307 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:41,000 Speaker 1: are going to stump up enough money to to get 308 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:44,600 Speaker 1: some some more fabs there, Who's going to be hard 309 00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:47,080 Speaker 1: to see. I don't know how to compare the announcements, 310 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:50,080 Speaker 1: but the Intel announcement you mentioned seemed big at twenty 311 00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:53,400 Speaker 1: billion until I heard Taiwan Semiconductor say they want to 312 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:57,760 Speaker 1: invest a hundred billion. Is that just spin or is 313 00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:03,720 Speaker 1: that legitimate investment in that size? That's as a legitimate 314 00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:08,840 Speaker 1: investment um that over the next couple of years, so 315 00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 1: probably learning about twenty five to thirty billion a year 316 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:17,600 Speaker 1: in CAPEX. So it's a large investment and very positive 317 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:19,800 Speaker 1: signs for the industry at the whole. And this is 318 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:22,640 Speaker 1: the reason that t SMC and Samsung to a lesser 319 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:27,200 Speaker 1: extent or ahead of the intail it consistently just pumping 320 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 1: money into both capacity and R and D, and that's 321 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:35,399 Speaker 1: what's enabled them to build leading edge that they have 322 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:37,520 Speaker 1: now ahead of the intail and the rest of the 323 00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:41,720 Speaker 1: world in chip production. Alright, just real quick for thirty seconds, 324 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 1: is Taiwana career? Are they still the leaders in global 325 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:49,119 Speaker 1: chip manufacturing? Yes, they are still the leaders and I 326 00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:51,200 Speaker 1: think likely to stay that way for the next step. 327 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:56,440 Speaker 1: All right, very interesting stuff indeed, and that um, that 328 00:17:56,600 --> 00:18:00,560 Speaker 1: investment really does put the size of US and European 329 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:03,440 Speaker 1: investment to shame. And maybe Biden will turn that around. 330 00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:06,040 Speaker 1: Roy Rory points out he's behind a big part of 331 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:08,159 Speaker 1: the reassuring. I don't know who would be behind it 332 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:11,240 Speaker 1: here though, Paul, because the EU can't even agree on, like, 333 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:14,480 Speaker 1: you know, buying vaccines. Yeah, so exactly. I don't know 334 00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:16,880 Speaker 1: how that works on over there on your scale there, 335 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:20,280 Speaker 1: matt Um, you know, and it kind of just makes 336 00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:23,439 Speaker 1: the Brexit folks, uh, I guess feel a little bit 337 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:26,840 Speaker 1: smarter indicated. Yeah, absolutely, It's got to be done really 338 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:28,760 Speaker 1: on a national level here, I think is the lesson 339 00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:32,040 Speaker 1: being learned in any case, Rory Green great to spend 340 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:35,480 Speaker 1: some time with him. China economist at TS Lombard staying 341 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:38,800 Speaker 1: up late in Seoul where it is what eleven thirty 342 00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:46,200 Speaker 1: at night. This is Bloomberg One of the key stories 343 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:50,040 Speaker 1: of today is around global soccer, and a group of 344 00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:54,080 Speaker 1: the world's richest soccer clubs, including Manchester United and Real Madrid, 345 00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:58,399 Speaker 1: announced plans for a European breakaway league starting in August. 346 00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:00,600 Speaker 1: And that's got people all up an arms, not just 347 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:02,280 Speaker 1: in Europe but around the world, as it is a 348 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:05,440 Speaker 1: global sport. Let's get the latest. We would do that 349 00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:09,680 Speaker 1: with David Hellier, Bloomberg Reporter, David, I don't have a 350 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:11,840 Speaker 1: dog in this fight here. I'm not a huge fan 351 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:14,600 Speaker 1: of European soccer. I follow it, but I'm not passionate 352 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:18,000 Speaker 1: like so many people are. To me, this just looks 353 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:20,359 Speaker 1: like a money grab. Talk to us about what's going 354 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:25,800 Speaker 1: on here. Yeah, I mean, I'd agree with you it 355 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:28,840 Speaker 1: is a money grab. It's um. But there's lots of 356 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:33,879 Speaker 1: different layers to um. Businesses do because they wanted they 357 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:38,280 Speaker 1: want to make money. Yeah, you've got a group of owners, 358 00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:44,439 Speaker 1: three of whom are American Arsenal Liverpool and Memphister United. UM. 359 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:47,920 Speaker 1: And you could argue a sen Land is Elliott, the 360 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:51,600 Speaker 1: Hedge Fund UM and uh they for a long time, 361 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:56,399 Speaker 1: the owners in Europe have been thinking about, you know, 362 00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:58,840 Speaker 1: how do they how do they play more often amongst 363 00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 1: the bigger clubs. Um. They get a bit frustrated when 364 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:05,080 Speaker 1: they have to go to play in Denmark or you know, 365 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:09,680 Speaker 1: uh in Croatia, Uh, some club that they've probably never 366 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:12,640 Speaker 1: heard of. Um. And they think that for an international 367 00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:16,840 Speaker 1: audience would be much more attractive if they could always 368 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:19,560 Speaker 1: play against the top clubs. And so they put this 369 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:22,800 Speaker 1: thing together. They've been doing it behind the scenes for 370 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:26,359 Speaker 1: for a while now. I mean we've been reporting about 371 00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:30,359 Speaker 1: it since about a year ago, UM, and they finally 372 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:32,399 Speaker 1: come out of me open. And so they've got twelve 373 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:36,959 Speaker 1: teams to twelves, you know, absolutely top teams in Europe 374 00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:42,239 Speaker 1: to sign up to it. But it is horrified everybody, Politicians, fans, uh, 375 00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:47,080 Speaker 1: you know, leagues, everybody. UM. You know some of the 376 00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:52,840 Speaker 1: I haven't I haven't seen such an extreme reaction. Uh. 377 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:56,679 Speaker 1: You know all the years I've been reporting on soccer, 378 00:20:57,320 --> 00:21:01,400 Speaker 1: shouldn't we I mean I tend to have initial reactions 379 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:04,359 Speaker 1: to things that are maybe conservative and based in my 380 00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:07,120 Speaker 1: free market upbringing. Often I'm wrong when I look back 381 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:11,000 Speaker 1: at my initial opinion. But my first take, um, David, 382 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:13,800 Speaker 1: is that let the market decide. Why do we have 383 00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:16,960 Speaker 1: all these politicians jumping in. You know, if people don't 384 00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:20,480 Speaker 1: want to watch a Super League, Um, then they won't write, 385 00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:24,440 Speaker 1: and then the business venture will fail and the Champions 386 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:27,879 Speaker 1: League will continue. Everything that they that they want is 387 00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:29,560 Speaker 1: going to be there, and the stuff they don't want 388 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:33,440 Speaker 1: they just don't tune into. Yeah, I mean, you know 389 00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:36,240 Speaker 1: that's a it's a very good point, um, I think. 390 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:39,360 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, the politicians are jumping in. You've 391 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:43,640 Speaker 1: got Boris Johnson, who's who's a conservative politician. Uh, he's 392 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:46,200 Speaker 1: jumping in because he knows that a lot of his constituency, 393 00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:49,800 Speaker 1: a lot of fans up in arms, and you know, 394 00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:52,960 Speaker 1: just he's doing it for his own purposes. I think 395 00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:56,119 Speaker 1: he probably believes exactly what you just said. Um, so 396 00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:59,679 Speaker 1: I don't think he's been truth to his his word. Really, um, 397 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:05,680 Speaker 1: why not let it just go? I suppose, um for me? Anyway, 398 00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:08,760 Speaker 1: the bit I haven't really explained is that what they're 399 00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:14,720 Speaker 1: doing is so alien to the competitive element in sport 400 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:19,080 Speaker 1: in in Europe. Is trying to set up a league 401 00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:23,280 Speaker 1: which has fifteen permanent members who can never get relegated 402 00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:25,639 Speaker 1: and never come out of the league no matter how 403 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:31,000 Speaker 1: badly they do. Concept that Yeah, Yeah, exactly it works 404 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:33,920 Speaker 1: in the NFL because that's always been the case. I think. 405 00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:37,360 Speaker 1: I think it's like, I don't know, maybe we're deluded, 406 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:41,520 Speaker 1: but we we believe quite passionately in this history of 407 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:44,920 Speaker 1: soccer and hundred years or you know, have as longer 408 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:49,480 Speaker 1: than a hundred years now, Um, you know, I don't know. 409 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:52,639 Speaker 1: We just have an attachment in Europe, I think to 410 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:56,840 Speaker 1: the the concept of promotion and relegation, and so because 411 00:22:56,920 --> 00:23:00,520 Speaker 1: we believe so firmly in that, allowing this simply to 412 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:04,440 Speaker 1: go ahead actually alters the whole pyramid. I think that's 413 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:07,000 Speaker 1: that's the problem. And if it was just the cases 414 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:09,320 Speaker 1: let them go ahead, I mean, but you know, there's 415 00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:10,919 Speaker 1: a good I think you're right in a way. I mean, 416 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:13,480 Speaker 1: you know, why not let them And some people even 417 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:16,600 Speaker 1: who hate hate the concert for saying just let them go, 418 00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:19,520 Speaker 1: let them go. They'll fail and then they want to 419 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:22,639 Speaker 1: come crawling back and we'll tell them know, um, you know. 420 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:26,600 Speaker 1: So it's it's kind of um, but I mean basically, 421 00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:29,920 Speaker 1: it's it's just aroused a lot of emotion, really, and 422 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:33,639 Speaker 1: it's very interesting. I think the the fact that a 423 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:37,360 Speaker 1: lot of it is becoming focused on the American investors. UM. 424 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:41,360 Speaker 1: So it's JP Morgan Bank who are financing it, um 425 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:44,840 Speaker 1: As I said, it's Liverpool, Man United, Arsenal, all owned 426 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:49,760 Speaker 1: by Americans. There's been an incredible invasion of US money 427 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:55,240 Speaker 1: into European football or soccer um and I think that's 428 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:59,399 Speaker 1: because the franchise values in America are just so huge, 429 00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:02,080 Speaker 1: so enormous, and it's very hard to get a hold 430 00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:05,800 Speaker 1: of franchises. And they've seen that European soccer clubs are 431 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:09,040 Speaker 1: changing hands quite readily, so they've they've all come in here. 432 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:13,879 Speaker 1: But it's this how this might play out. Is this 433 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:17,280 Speaker 1: just a bargaining chip for other negotiations or can this happen? 434 00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,720 Speaker 1: Well yeah, no absolutely. I mean so that the current 435 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:23,879 Speaker 1: league organizing u A, for the current organizing of the 436 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:29,359 Speaker 1: Champions League, they've got their own plans to extend their competition, 437 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:33,560 Speaker 1: have more matches, potentially get more money um to fatisfy 438 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:36,040 Speaker 1: the clubs in in that way. But I'm not sure 439 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:38,400 Speaker 1: that maybe they've left it too late because these guys 440 00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:41,159 Speaker 1: have already signed. So it depends on that. You know, 441 00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:44,159 Speaker 1: we're being told they've signed finding agreements they can't come 442 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:46,640 Speaker 1: out of it. But you know that if if there's 443 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:49,720 Speaker 1: a good enough deal being offered on the other side 444 00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:52,880 Speaker 1: of the street that they you know, they might look there. 445 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:56,639 Speaker 1: I just look at, you know, Formula one as a 446 00:24:56,800 --> 00:25:00,960 Speaker 1: model for how badly this could turn out, because it's similarly, 447 00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:04,640 Speaker 1: all big money, it's all encased now in one big 448 00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:08,800 Speaker 1: league that it's just dreadfully boring. Yesterday's're Racing the Malo 449 00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:12,080 Speaker 1: was okay, but it's nobody wants to watch anymore the 450 00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:14,600 Speaker 1: way they used to. And that could be where these 451 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:18,600 Speaker 1: guys are headed. Yeah, I mean it could very well be. 452 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:21,840 Speaker 1: And you know that, I mean that would be an 453 00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:25,960 Speaker 1: amazing uh you know, punt taken by JP Morgan, who's 454 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:30,080 Speaker 1: who was sort of they've got four billion at risk here? Um, 455 00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:34,040 Speaker 1: but who's your team, David, who who do you support? 456 00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:37,480 Speaker 1: My team? My team is owned by a Russian oligarcus Chelsea, 457 00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:45,000 Speaker 1: So there. I mean, I I thought I didn't expect 458 00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:47,639 Speaker 1: them to go into it. The the you know, the 459 00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:52,040 Speaker 1: signals were that they wouldn't necessarily go into it, But 460 00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:54,119 Speaker 1: I think they're they're they're in it not because they 461 00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:56,639 Speaker 1: need the money, obviously, but because of the fear of 462 00:25:56,800 --> 00:26:00,080 Speaker 1: missing out. Absolutely the Pomo there David Hellier, Thanks so 463 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:02,760 Speaker 1: much recovering this for us. Is a Bloomberg reporter on 464 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:05,880 Speaker 1: this European soccer story or football as they call it here, 465 00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:10,800 Speaker 1: and it is playing out massively across the continent. Thanks 466 00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:14,280 Speaker 1: for listening to the Bloomberg Markets podcast. You can subscribe 467 00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:18,040 Speaker 1: and listen to interviews with Apple Podcasts or whatever podcast 468 00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:21,600 Speaker 1: platform you prefer. I'm Matt Miller. I'm on Twitter at 469 00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:25,280 Speaker 1: Matt Miller three and on Fall Sweeney I'm on Twitter 470 00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:28,160 Speaker 1: at pt Sweeney. Before the podcast, you can always catch 471 00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:29,800 Speaker 1: us worldwide at Bloomberg Radio.