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Speaker 1: Well, we're finally here. It's liberation Day? Or is it?

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Speaker 1: In America? Is it recession Day? Is it tax Day?

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Speaker 1: Is it liquidation Day? All the punditry out and the realities,

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Speaker 1: the new realities of unprecedented tariffs, unprecedented tax increases in

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Speaker 1: the United States of America, certainly in peacetime up to

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Speaker 1: twenty three percent, tariffs all around the globe. Are we

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Speaker 1: in a trade war? What does this mean in terms

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Speaker 1: of you and your household and expenses? Are cars going

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Speaker 1: to get cheaper? Or as Donald Trump says, it doesn't

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Speaker 1: even matter. We're going to talk about all of those things,

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Speaker 1: as well as what went right, what went wrong with

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Speaker 1: the Harris campaign? What is the path back for the

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Speaker 1: Democratic Party? With Anthony Scaramucci up next on This is

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Speaker 1: Gavin Newsom. This is Gavin Newsom, and this is Anthony Scaramuci.

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Speaker 2: The governor knew some going for the silver Fox. Look, okay,

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Speaker 2: this is this is Latin American dictator Brown governor.

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Speaker 1: If you ever need it's called, it's called just for men, Anthony,

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Speaker 1: That's what that's called.

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Speaker 2: Well, I was using Cuban leader Black, but it looked

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Speaker 2: terrible on TV.

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Speaker 1: So I've likened noven do you have to do it?

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Speaker 1: I don't even have the guts to try to turn orange.

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Speaker 2: Well you don't. You definitely don't want to turn orange,

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Speaker 2: especially these days. That would be a bad color for

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Speaker 2: both of us.

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Speaker 1: Speaking of of orange, I mean, uh, I mean we all,

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Speaker 1: we all waited for this moment. Uh did you predict

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Speaker 1: it be this volatile, this reckless? I knew it would

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Speaker 1: be bad.

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Speaker 2: I didn't. You know. The thing that you always prayed

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Speaker 2: for is that he would have some people around him

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Speaker 2: slow him down. You know, he if you talked to

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Speaker 2: him in Uchin, or you talk to Gary Gary Cohen

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Speaker 2: former Goldman Sachs President, chief operating officer, they slow he

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Speaker 2: This was the potential implementation in twenty eighteen. They slowed

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Speaker 2: that down. Kelly slowed it down. Minuchin. All of those

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Speaker 2: guys did not want this, and so he wasn't able

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Speaker 2: to do this. Now he has willing accomplices. Gap. You know,

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Speaker 2: how do you want me to address you, governor of Gavin?

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Speaker 1: How do you want Gavin works? I mean, I get

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Speaker 1: you know, walk the streets with me. I'll get asshole,

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Speaker 1: I'll get everything. So I'll take gavinbody.

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Speaker 2: I've been called a lot worse than Mooch and Anthony.

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Speaker 2: Trust me, you can't. You can't go into politics without

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Speaker 2: getting some shit.

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Speaker 1: But let me I'm curious. I mean it is interesting

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Speaker 1: because Trump one point zero. I mean, obviously this fixation

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Speaker 1: that he's had for decades. You've known Trump for quite

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Speaker 1: literally decades, you know, on and off, and obviously worked

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Speaker 1: briefly for him. But I mean, he's the one thing

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Speaker 1: legitimately he has been consistent about as a former Democrat,

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Speaker 1: pro choice Democrat. It's an interesting area of consistency. It's

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Speaker 1: on the issues of tariffs. So to your point, this

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Speaker 1: obviously must have been on the agenda at least internally

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Speaker 1: in the first administration. But did you ever see it

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Speaker 1: at this level? I mean, this is not even reciprocal tariffts.

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Speaker 1: These are sort of seemed random, and they seem almost

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Speaker 1: I mean it's like a that was a strange I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's always a reality TV show. But you had to

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Speaker 1: see that board yesterday and the nature of how they

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Speaker 1: came up with the numerics and divide by two. I mean,

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Speaker 1: that couldn't have been necessarily on the docket in the

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Speaker 1: first term.

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Speaker 2: Was it? No? I don't think it was this level

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Speaker 2: of unseriousness. I think in the first administration it was

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Speaker 2: he wanted to attack on across the board tariffs, and

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Speaker 2: he wanted to put up a border, a financial border,

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Speaker 2: if you will, around the United States. Remember, he wants

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Speaker 2: to wall the United States off literally and physically from

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Speaker 2: the rest of the world. The Trump doctrine and the

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Speaker 2: reason why he goes back to McKinley. During President McKinley's administration,

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Speaker 2: ninety seven percent of what we produced we consumed inside

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Speaker 2: the country. And so Trump's attitude is that the world

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Speaker 2: has free loaded off the US and that we need

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Speaker 2: to wall ourselves off literally and physically from the rest

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Speaker 2: of the world. Now that misunderstands how actually the world works,

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Speaker 2: and this is the problem we're all having. We need

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Speaker 2: somebody like you to organize the scent and explain to

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Speaker 2: people that what Trump is doing is actually catastrophic for

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Speaker 2: our economy. What he's doing would take us back to

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Speaker 2: the nineteen thirties with the Smooth Hawley Act, which steepened

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Speaker 2: a recession and turned it into a Great depression. Trump

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Speaker 2: could touch off deflation, Governor Newsom. And if you touch

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Speaker 2: off deflation in a society like ours, it's absolutely catastrophic

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Speaker 2: because remember we're in a debt laiden society. So let

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Speaker 2: me just give this example. If you have a two

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Speaker 2: hundred and fifty thousand dollars mortgage and an eighty thousand

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Speaker 2: dollars job in a deflationary society, your salary is going

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Speaker 2: down alongside the goods and services, but your debt's not

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Speaker 2: going down. You're forced to pay back the debt with

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Speaker 2: dollars that are worth more than the dollars you borrow.

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Speaker 2: In an inflationary situation, you can pay back the debt

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Speaker 2: with dollars that are worth less. But if the counter

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Speaker 2: should happen, it's absolutely devastating for the society. And so

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Speaker 2: the FED is going to be forced now to cut

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Speaker 2: rates because the FED fears deflation way more than inflation.

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Speaker 2: So what he's doing is actually historically catastrophic. He's doing

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Speaker 2: something that literally, if you said, governor, if I said

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Speaker 2: to you, okay, let's get in a room, you and I,

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Speaker 2: and let's dismantle the global trading system. Let's get every

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Speaker 2: one of our allies sore at us, and let's give

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Speaker 2: our adversaries a leg up. Let's give China an opportunity now,

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Speaker 2: to re engage with Europe and become their number one

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Speaker 2: trading partner. What should we do to do that in

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Speaker 2: sixty five seventy days? And this is what you would do.

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Speaker 2: Everything that he's implemented is doing that, and his unserious cabinet.

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Speaker 2: They can't defend it. I mean Lutnix on TV tried

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Speaker 2: to defend it. Cannot defend it. I feel bad for Scott,

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Speaker 2: you know, the Secretary Treasury Bessent. It's like blink twice,

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Speaker 2: we'll get steal Team six and they'll take you off

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Speaker 2: to see and we'll take you off the CNN shout,

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Speaker 2: you know. I mean, it's it's embarrassing. It's embarrassing for

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Speaker 2: all of us because, Okay, there are this is the

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Speaker 2: and this is the thing with Donald Trump. There are

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Speaker 2: things about him that centrist wall Streeter centrists do like

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Speaker 2: they want a stronger border. I think you've had several

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Speaker 2: people on your show that have articulated that they want

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Speaker 2: some banking deregulation, some positive crypto regulation. But with Donald

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Speaker 2: Trump's or you go to the buffet table with your tray,

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Speaker 2: you can't pick the things that you want. Alec cart

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Speaker 2: he force feeds you everything you know, he force feed

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Speaker 2: you the mean coin, He force feeds you the rhetoric

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Speaker 2: on the fifty first state. He force feed you the

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Speaker 2: nonsense about NATO and the and the UH. I mean,

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Speaker 2: what the dressing down of Zelensky, what they did to Zelenski,

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Speaker 2: to me is literally one of the most un American

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Speaker 2: things that I've seen. So so we're in a situation

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Speaker 2: now where even ram Paul, Sir, even ram Paul got

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Speaker 2: to the airwaves last night and said that what he's

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Speaker 2: proposing is absurd. And of course the markets are reacting

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Speaker 2: with their signal, not noise signal, they're signaling how absurd

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Speaker 2: this all is.

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Speaker 1: So there's so much to unpacking what you said, and

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Speaker 1: I want to I want to explore a number of

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Speaker 1: the points you made, but let's just go back to

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Speaker 1: a fundamental point. And it goes back to just you know,

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Speaker 1: the person that is Donald Trump. He wants to be loved.

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Speaker 1: The markets matter to him. It's it's the one sort

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Speaker 1: of objective scorecard. He's got to see this kind of volatility.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he sort of previewed a little bit of it.

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Speaker 1: You've seen some of that volatility over the course of

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Speaker 1: the last few months, and he pulled back on some

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Speaker 1: of his assertions and some of his threats and promises.

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Speaker 1: I mean, what happens you think in the next few

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Speaker 1: days on the basis of this reaction, global reaction, but

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Speaker 1: profound impacts in terms of the market volatility.

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Speaker 2: Well, he has sent out his keyboard warriors this morning

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Speaker 2: to say to people, come to the table. Eric Trump

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Speaker 2: is out on X or whatever they call it now

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Speaker 2: saying hey, come to the table and negotiate with my dad,

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Speaker 2: or it's going to end badly for you. I've seen

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Speaker 2: it my whole life, you know. And so they're nervous,

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Speaker 2: you know, they're sending out signals to people that okay,

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Speaker 2: we've obviously overstepped. Obviously this governor I call it the

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Speaker 2: anti ten Commandments. It's like the Evil ten Commandments. He

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Speaker 2: had this big tablet in his hand. We had orange

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Speaker 2: Moses descending from Mount Evil with the you know, indiscernible tablet.

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Speaker 2: But they now know that they've overstepped, and so they're nervous,

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Speaker 2: and they're they're they're trying to tell leaders, now, come

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Speaker 2: to the table, my father declare victory. You know, you know,

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Speaker 2: Prime Minister Carney, come to the table. And then he'll

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Speaker 2: put out on truth social I've lowered the terriffts for Canada.

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Speaker 2: You know, this sort of thing, And it's actually it's

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Speaker 2: actually embarrassing. You know, it's embarrassing because I can't speak

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Speaker 2: for the school system in California, but I would imagine

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Speaker 2: sometime in the first grade, like the school system here

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Speaker 2: in New York, you read The Emperor has No Clothes.

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Speaker 2: I was seven when I first read this brilliant piece

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Speaker 2: of literature, and I remember remarking to myself at age seven, well,

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Speaker 2: who would be stupid enough to tell an emperor that

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Speaker 2: he has clothes on? When he has no clothes on?

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Speaker 2: And of course, now here we are in twenty twenty five,

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Speaker 2: it's fifty four years after I read this beautiful piece

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Speaker 2: of first grade literature, and I'm watching people in the

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Speaker 2: President's court do things. I'm they're bobbleheads, Governor, you know,

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Speaker 2: they're bobbling. They're their head saying yes, yes, yes, we're

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Speaker 2: privately they're saying no, no, no, And so I do

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Speaker 2: think there would be a breach. But I want to

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Speaker 2: go back to your loved thing, because I think this

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Speaker 2: is a forty year idea for Trump. He mentioned it

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Speaker 2: to Oprah Winfrey in the mid eighties, and he wants

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Speaker 2: to implement it and so if it causes hardship. In

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Speaker 2: his perverse mind, he thinks that this is a solution

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Speaker 2: for America. He thinks this is a reassuring solution for America.

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Speaker 2: He thinks this is an end of the freeloading. You know,

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Speaker 2: this is what his team says on signal. But of

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Speaker 2: course you and I know that that's not the case.

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Speaker 2: And I can prove to your viewers and listeners that

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Speaker 2: this is not the case. America, by integrating with the

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Speaker 2: rest of the world, created a bigger market for America,

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Speaker 2: more prosperity for America. Is it perfect? No, Should our

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Speaker 2: political leadership have checked some of the rights that the

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Speaker 2: Chinese had wto as the Chinese economy grew? Yes, I

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Speaker 2: accept that. Should we have checked some of the towers

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Speaker 2: that could put on us, certainly, But the notion that

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Speaker 2: America would integrate with the rest of the world and

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Speaker 2: then generally provide a security umbrella for the free world

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Speaker 2: has led to incredible amounts of peace and incredible amounts

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Speaker 2: of prosperity here in America. And let me just point

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Speaker 2: this out to you before you ask another question. In

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Speaker 2: nineteen eighty two, we had approximately five percent of the

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Speaker 2: world's population and twenty six percent of the world's output.

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Speaker 2: It's the same number today. So think of the rising

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Speaker 2: living standards around the world. I can prove to you

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Speaker 2: prime a facia that the policies have generally worked. We

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Speaker 2: just needed to have done a better job. We left

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Speaker 2: a vacuum of advocacy your party, Frankly, my party, my

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Speaker 2: old party. We left the vacuum of advocacy for white,

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Speaker 2: middle class, blue collar workers. And I would suggest that

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Speaker 2: we got to get back to that. You know, if

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Speaker 2: you want to have the counter narrative to the nonsense

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Speaker 2: that's going on those families, and this would be my

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Speaker 2: own family. You know, they voted for the Franklin Roosevelt's,

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Speaker 2: they voted for the Jack Kennedy's, they voted for the

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Speaker 2: Lynda Johnson's. But it seems like we just lost our

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Speaker 2: way and we left those people out of the American

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Speaker 2: aspirational economy. You know, many of those people now so

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Speaker 2: feel desperational.

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Speaker 1: So and I appreciate that. I think it's what led

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Speaker 1: you to appreciate Trump as a Republican. And you were

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Speaker 1: out there campaigning for Jeb Bush and others. But I

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Speaker 1: think you constantly.

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Speaker 2: You're you're a Catholic? Is that right?

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Speaker 1: Governor there, I'm right out of the old Irish Catholic.

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Speaker 2: Because you know, I just could be a confessional for me.

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Speaker 2: I won't have to go on Saturday. You know, I

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Speaker 2: can confess all my sins. I can confess all my

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Speaker 2: sins working for Donald Trump.

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Speaker 3: No.

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Speaker 1: But but but I'm going to compliment you a little

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Speaker 1: bit because what you just expressed is what you also experienced.

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Speaker 1: And you talk often about New Mexico when you're out there,

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Speaker 1: and you saw him at least talking to those folks,

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Speaker 1: not talking down to them, and acknowledging them. I see you,

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Speaker 1: I care at least asserting that he cared. And you

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Speaker 1: saw my party that seemed to be defending NAFTA, defending TPP,

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Speaker 1: defending some of those trade deals, or at least struggling

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Speaker 1: with them as it relates to an electoral strategy, not

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Speaker 1: fully appreciating the magnitude of the displacement and the despair

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Speaker 1: in the faces and the heart of so many, and

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Speaker 1: so what you know, appreciating that and appreciating there were

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Speaker 1: people there yesterday with President that you know, united, our

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Speaker 1: workers and others that just feel like this is we

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Speaker 1: are getting ripped off and you at least this gives

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Speaker 1: us a shot again. I mean, what is there a

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Speaker 1: case that you can make. Is there a case that

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Speaker 1: Trump himself at this moment particularly he can defend or

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Speaker 1: do you just think he went further than he realized

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Speaker 1: he went? And this is completely reckless, not just taking

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Speaker 1: the risk.

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Speaker 2: So again, the case could have been made for or

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Speaker 2: fifty years ago, but it can't be realistically made today.

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Speaker 2: That's the problem because NAFTA caused a full integration of

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Speaker 2: the Canadian and almost the full integration of the Mexican economy.

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Speaker 2: So as an example, a Prime Minister Corney who's a

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Speaker 2: personal friend of mine, I worked with mcgoldman thirty five

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Speaker 2: years ago. He would tell you that autoparts are coming

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Speaker 2: across the border back and forth at least six times

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Speaker 2: before they get installed in the car, and you can't

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Speaker 2: charge twenty five percent tariffs each time it moves across

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Speaker 2: the border. And so we've integrated the economies. If you

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Speaker 2: said to me we needed to right size elements of

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Speaker 2: the tariff system to protect American working class families, I

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Speaker 2: would say resoundingly yes. Have you said to me we

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Speaker 2: need surgical tariffs where we need to go through the

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Speaker 2: tariff system and say, okay, the Chinese are dumping this

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Speaker 2: product into our market, they are subsidizing it with their

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Speaker 2: government's help, and they're giving an artificial price of rosa.

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Speaker 1: And we saw that of course with Biden. I mean

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Speaker 1: he built off Trump's targeted tariffs, and Biden administration certainly

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Speaker 1: had that meant yea, they.

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Speaker 2: Went more delicately through the list. And this is the

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Speaker 2: thing about Donald Trump that we have to acknowledge. There

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Speaker 2: are kernels of truth in what he's saying. It's the

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Speaker 2: implementation of the policy that's flawed. But if you're telling

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Speaker 2: me we have a problem at the border, Milton Friedman

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Speaker 2: would have said years ago, well, if you have a

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Speaker 2: welfare state in the US does have one, you have

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Speaker 2: to protect your border because free market forces dictate that

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Speaker 2: people will cross the border. And so I think what

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Speaker 2: happened is because of anti Trump sentiment, President Biden reversed

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Speaker 2: all of that through executive action. It was more of

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Speaker 2: an anti Trump statement than it was real thought out policy,

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Speaker 2: and that hurt the Democrats. In twenty twenty four, but

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Speaker 2: there was a kernel of truth of what Trump was saying.

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Speaker 2: It's more about theventation and the heavy handedness. And again

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Speaker 2: same thing with the tariffs. The President is correct that

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Speaker 2: we need to bolster living standards in America for lower

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Speaker 2: and middle income people. The President is correct that there

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Speaker 2: have been elements of the trade system where we've been

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Speaker 2: taking advantage of. You know, the World Trade Organization let

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Speaker 2: China in with extraordinary emerging market latitude, extraordinary, and they

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Speaker 2: never corrected it as China arose. And I'll say something,

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Speaker 2: Governor does not reflect well on me, but I'll share

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Speaker 2: it with you. At the age of twenty, at the

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Speaker 2: age of thirty five, in nineteen ninety nine, the World

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Speaker 2: Trade Organization, there were protests in Seattle. Do you remember these?

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Speaker 2: I don't. I remember, of course, okay, And so Ralph

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Speaker 2: Nader was up there. Working class families were up there.

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Speaker 2: They said, please, please, do not let the Chinese into

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Speaker 2: the WTO, and you'll cause a hollowing out of our manufacturing.

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Speaker 2: You'll ruin our middle class aspirational jobs. Please don't. I

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Speaker 2: was a young Wall Street person at the time, and

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Speaker 2: I had bought into the Wall Street narrative that this

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Speaker 2: was going to lower the cost of capital deployment, lower

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Speaker 2: the cost of labor, and was going to be generally

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Speaker 2: good for the economy, the stock market, and generally good

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Speaker 2: for people. And it was an advancement. It was progress.

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Speaker 2: But those workers were right, Governor Newsom, I got that

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Speaker 2: wrong at age twenty nine, because the aftermath of what

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Speaker 2: happened twenty five, twenty six years later is this dilemma,

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Speaker 2: this systemic rise in populism. Moreover, when President Bush implemented

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Speaker 2: the TARP money, he made a very big mistake, and

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Speaker 2: I think he's willing to admit it today. He put

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Speaker 2: a trillion into the banks. If he puts seven to

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Speaker 2: fifty into the bank, sir, and maybe two point fifty

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Speaker 2: into the lower and middle income people, you maybe wouldn't

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Speaker 2: have had the Occupy Wall Street movement. Maybe it wouldn't

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Speaker 2: have morphed into the Tea Party movement. You see, there

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Speaker 2: was a there was an unfairness in the policy that

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Speaker 2: created a prairie fire of popularism.

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Speaker 3: The iHeart Radio Waango Tango presented by Fiji Airways, Pontington

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Speaker 3: Wango Tango is produced by iHeartMedia, Los Angeles in partnership

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Speaker 3: with Code four.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: No, I mean, I think you mark two profoundly consequential

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Speaker 1: moments the WTO. It's interesting just even talking to members

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Speaker 1: of the Clinton administration talking former President Clinton himself about WTO,

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Speaker 1: and it's half math. I think there's there's not only

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Speaker 1: a reckoning in terms of our politics today and direct

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Speaker 1: connection in that respect, but I think there's a growing

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Speaker 1: recognition of the outsized consequence of the WTO. But I

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Speaker 1: also appreciate your point around the Wall Street relief and

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Speaker 1: this sort of main street Wall Street frame and after

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Speaker 1: the financial crisis, with you know, and obviously the biding

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Speaker 1: excuse me, Obama administration inherited a lot of that and

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Speaker 1: sort of maintained not totally dissimilar policies as it relates

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Speaker 1: to that bailout and the consequences to the populism that

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Speaker 1: we're experiencing today. Let me just back up, just talking

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Speaker 1: about the challenges of today. I mean, how does knowing

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump as the way you know him, how does

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Speaker 1: he get out of this? Is it just you know,

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Speaker 1: he's got sixty countries, he got sixty leaders come in

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Speaker 1: one off, he starts negotiating bs deals that he claims

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Speaker 1: credit for having quote unquote succeeded in level setting the

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Speaker 1: playing field. Or is there going to be more sweeping

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Speaker 1: across the board recalibration with the EU as an example

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Speaker 1: or other allies. What's your over under in terms of

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Speaker 1: the next days not just weeks?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I mean, I mean, anything is possible,

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Speaker 2: Governor Newsom. But but I'm and I'm generally an optimist

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Speaker 2: about life, but I'm pessimistic about this. And just hear

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Speaker 2: me out for a second, and I'd love to get

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Speaker 2: you to react to it. We've had a bipartisan commitment

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Speaker 2: to this economic, geo political footprint. We've had a bipartisan

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Speaker 2: commitment on containment, the NATO security umbrella, the free trading

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Speaker 2: mechanisms around the world, America absorbing some of that because

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Speaker 2: we're the richest nation. And he's ending all of that.

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Speaker 2: He's ending all of that very abruptly, and he's doing

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Speaker 2: it in a way that's raising risk premium around the world.

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Speaker 2: So said differently, if I was a European leader, I'd

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Speaker 2: be like, Okay, whoa, it's not just Donald Trump. Fifty

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Speaker 2: percent of the people voted for him. There's something wrong

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Speaker 2: in the body politic in the US now. That's going

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Speaker 2: to make the US a little bit more arbitrary and

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Speaker 2: a little bit more capricious. And it's decision making unless

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Speaker 2: you're telling me we can find a transformative, postpartisan leader

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Speaker 2: that can galvanize the Americans. Again. If I'm in Europe,

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Speaker 2: I'm like, Okay, I got to have other options now.

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Speaker 2: And I think the market is signaling even if Trump

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Speaker 2: tomorrow says okay, EU, here's this deal, and China, here's

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Speaker 2: that deal. And oh, by the way, I wave my

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Speaker 2: beautiful magic wand here's the new tablet coming down from

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Speaker 2: Mount stupidity, and here's what we're going to do now.

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Speaker 2: I think he's upset the apple card enough where you're

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Speaker 2: now creating different sets of outcomes and different sets of

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Speaker 2: decision making from other responsible political leaders. Do you think

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Speaker 2: I'm going too far and thinking that as a no?

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think that course was set weeks and

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Speaker 1: weeks prior to the tariffs, as it relates to the

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Speaker 1: reorder in our alliances, and you know Jade Vance's speech

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Speaker 1: in Munich, the security coffer talking down and past our allies,

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Speaker 1: and as you said, the ambush in the Oval with Zelenski,

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Speaker 1: and the messages that have been said, And I can

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Speaker 1: just let me just reinforce that point of view on

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Speaker 1: the basis of the kind of outreach that I've directly

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Speaker 1: received as governor of a state that happens to be

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Speaker 1: larger than twenty one state populations combined, the fifth largest

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Speaker 1: economy in the world, where foreign leaders have reached directly

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Speaker 1: out to California to express that anxiety and concern from

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Speaker 1: a sub national level and look to engage us directly

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Speaker 1: with all the volatility and the uncertainty again prior to

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Speaker 1: this tariff announcement coming from the White House. So I

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Speaker 1: think the consequences are off the charts and profound. And

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Speaker 1: it begs then this question, Anthony. You look, we watched

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Speaker 1: Project twenty twenty five. I felt some of us were

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Speaker 1: accused of crying wolf on it. But this sort of

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Speaker 1: shock in awe, this flood in the zone, as Bannon

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Speaker 1: loves to say, as one speeds, you know, he puts

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Speaker 1: his foot on the gas. There's no break with Trump.

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Speaker 1: Has that even surprised you to the degree that he's

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Speaker 1: moved this early?

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Speaker 2: That didn't I think what has surprised me, frankly is

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Speaker 2: the willing sick events, the willing enablers. There's usually people

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Speaker 2: of conscience in the room that say, WHOA, that doesn't

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Speaker 2: work for me, you know, John Kelly. John Kelly fired

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Speaker 2: me Governor Newsom on the thirty first of July twenty seventeen.

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Speaker 2: We've become very close friends, and you know, we socialize together,

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Speaker 2: and my wife Deirdre and Karen and him hang out

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Speaker 2: together and we talk about the dilemma of working with

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Speaker 2: Donald Trump, you know, and this is a weirdness to him.

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Speaker 2: There's like an anti there's a conflict of boys. I've

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Speaker 2: been dying to ask you this question since I saw

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Speaker 2: you at the night of the debate where you and

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Speaker 2: I were in September together in Philadelphia. Both they are

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Speaker 2: supporting Vice President Harris when he attacks you, the president

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Speaker 2: President trum he attached you as a keyboard worrying bully.

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Speaker 2: But then when he has to face you in person,

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Speaker 2: and thank god, you're tall, sob because I'm not as

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Speaker 2: tall as you. At least you can stand off to

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Speaker 2: him face to face. He never attacks you face to face. Oh, Gavin,

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Speaker 2: you're a great guy. You know this sort of stuff.

430
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:22,600
Speaker 2: What do you make of that, sir, if you don't mind, man,

431
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:24,560
Speaker 2: And I wink I was just with that question for

432
00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:25,560
Speaker 2: six months.

433
00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:29,000
Speaker 1: Anthony, I've had for me sort of a bookmark in history.

434
00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:31,280
Speaker 1: Interesting experience. I was there near the end of the

435
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:34,320
Speaker 1: Biden administration in the Oval for about ninety minutes up

436
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:37,600
Speaker 1: in the residence with President Biden, and then invited back

437
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:42,240
Speaker 1: same guy, same state, same Democrat a few weeks later,

438
00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:43,960
Speaker 1: and I think I was the first Democrat to sit

439
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:45,879
Speaker 1: down in the Oval with Donald Trump. And it was

440
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:49,560
Speaker 1: ninety plus minutes, and they kept trying to extract us

441
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:52,400
Speaker 1: from one another. And it was because it was deeply

442
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:56,560
Speaker 1: engaging and personal. He's incredibly charismatic, as you know.

443
00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:59,960
Speaker 2: Well, look, he said, I hate to say this to people,

444
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:02,200
Speaker 2: but he's a very charming guy in that.

445
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:06,359
Speaker 1: Interpersonal interaction, and there's no doesn't he doesn't want conflict.

446
00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:08,359
Speaker 1: And I'll be candid with you. It surprised me on

447
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:11,280
Speaker 1: the Zelenski I call it an ambush. I saw that

448
00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:14,320
Speaker 1: more as an ambush coming from JD. Mansh and the

449
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:19,040
Speaker 1: Vice President than even Trump, because it's not like Trump

450
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 1: to do that in the old I was surprised because

451
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:26,280
Speaker 1: of the interpersonal because he tends to like that rapport

452
00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:29,399
Speaker 1: one on one that said, others have different theories, but

453
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:32,640
Speaker 1: it's an interesting dynamic that people don't fully appreciate.

454
00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:35,639
Speaker 2: But sir, when he goes off on you on truth

455
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:38,960
Speaker 2: social with the nonsense name calling, and then you see

456
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:42,160
Speaker 2: him like a week later or a day later in California,

457
00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:44,439
Speaker 2: he acts like it didn't happen, right, of.

458
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:47,840
Speaker 1: Course no, and in fact gets a little uncomfortable when

459
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:49,800
Speaker 1: you say, hey, you know what happened in the new

460
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:52,679
Speaker 1: skum He's like okay, and he literally that's when he's

461
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:55,160
Speaker 1: sort of unmoored a little bit because he doesn't want

462
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:57,520
Speaker 1: to engage in that. And so look, and I think

463
00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:00,520
Speaker 1: that's the difficult part, is figuring out what's real, what's not,

464
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:04,120
Speaker 1: what's performative, what's not. I mean, for him, it's about

465
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:06,000
Speaker 1: the crowds. I mean even made that point. He goes

466
00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:08,480
Speaker 1: the crowd loves it, and so I'm like, okay, whatever

467
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:10,600
Speaker 1: your crowd needs The problem is I feel like it's

468
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:13,040
Speaker 1: you know, I'm watching Gladiator three, or at least the

469
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:15,960
Speaker 1: preview Glattery three with the thumbs up thumbs down. You

470
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:18,520
Speaker 1: don't know which help direction it's going to go based

471
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:22,080
Speaker 1: upon the crowd. And that again begs my concern now,

472
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:25,199
Speaker 1: you know, and not just concern, but consideration of a

473
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:28,440
Speaker 1: sort of reconsideration. How would this crowd in terms of

474
00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 1: the markets. You know, he dismissed his mother nature, but

475
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:35,520
Speaker 1: the markets can't be easily dismissed. People's four oh one k.

476
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:38,399
Speaker 1: You're even seeing it's not just Rampaul, there's some other

477
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:43,879
Speaker 1: Republicans that are marginally expressing concern around tariffs. You're seeing

478
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:47,119
Speaker 1: now layoffs. You're seeing announcements from these companies that we're

479
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:49,680
Speaker 1: supposed to be spending trillions of dollars coming in the

480
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 1: United States now actually saying they're not going to invest

481
00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:55,639
Speaker 1: in these factories in some of these world parts of

482
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:58,159
Speaker 1: the country. I mean, I've got to think, and I

483
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:01,359
Speaker 1: know you're sort of challenging that that he's got to

484
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:06,240
Speaker 1: reverse more quickly than perhaps even you think.

485
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:13,359
Speaker 2: No, yes, but I don't see how we get undamaged

486
00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:17,200
Speaker 2: from this. You know, like you know. Here's the cruel admission.

487
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 2: I knew how bad it was. I endorsed President Biden

488
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:24,160
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty. As you know, I helped on debate

489
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:27,040
Speaker 2: prep and tried to act as a surrogate for the

490
00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:29,760
Speaker 2: Vice President Harris in twenty twenty four.

491
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:32,200
Speaker 1: And you didn't try to act. You were a surrogate

492
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:34,040
Speaker 1: and an incredibly effective one.

493
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:37,960
Speaker 2: This is an existential crisis, or this is a postpartisan thing.

494
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:43,159
Speaker 2: What I My message to your party is open the door,

495
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:46,960
Speaker 2: expand the tent. Remember what Lyndon Johnson said, Let's get

496
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,719
Speaker 2: all the elephants in the tent pissing out. Let's not

497
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:53,520
Speaker 2: have elephants outside the tent pissing in. Make it a

498
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:57,680
Speaker 2: pro democracy movement, make it a pro America movement. Make

499
00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:02,439
Speaker 2: it a postpartisan transfer so that we can beat the

500
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:07,280
Speaker 2: current Wig Party, which the Whig Party is the Maga party.

501
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:11,080
Speaker 2: It's at a step with America. They can beat us

502
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:14,400
Speaker 2: if we are dissembling, they can beat us if we're

503
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:18,800
Speaker 2: internescently fighting with each other. But if we expand the tent.

504
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:21,359
Speaker 2: And some of your friends on the liberal side don't

505
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 2: like me because I was with Trump, I understand that,

506
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:26,040
Speaker 2: but hold your.

507
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:29,879
Speaker 1: Nose Okay, hold your nose like me, because I shook

508
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:34,880
Speaker 1: his hand at the tarmac. Yes, and and and return

509
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:37,639
Speaker 1: his phone calls. I mean, which you know, that's a

510
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:39,840
Speaker 1: deeper conversation, and so I appreciate it.

511
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:44,240
Speaker 2: I applaud you. Look, I don't like Steve Okay, you know,

512
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:47,960
Speaker 2: Bannon I think is a national disgrace. I'll just say that,

513
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 2: Thank god he's so ugly frankly, Otherwise he could be

514
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:53,400
Speaker 2: like a more powerful figure. I think that was the

515
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 2: Good Lord helping us. But I'm just saying to you,

516
00:28:56,560 --> 00:29:00,239
Speaker 2: I admire you having a conversation with him, Charlie. I

517
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:04,040
Speaker 2: know forever I campaigned with Charlie in Pennsylvania. With Trump,

518
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:08,160
Speaker 2: he's a formidable young man. I think he's intellectually misguided,

519
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:12,680
Speaker 2: but I think it's important for you to speak with him.

520
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:16,320
Speaker 2: And the fact that your base or your coalition on

521
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:19,720
Speaker 2: the Democratic side would lambast you for that, they are

522
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:26,160
Speaker 2: making a mistake. If Churchill could hang with Attlee to

523
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:29,560
Speaker 2: beat Hitler. Okay, And I'm not comparing Trump to Hitler.

524
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 2: I'm just saying we have an existential crisis going on.

525
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:36,720
Speaker 2: He is going down Project twenty twenty five. He wants

526
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 2: to weekend. The legislative branch. He wants to disgrace the

527
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 2: media week in it. He wants to weaken the judicial branch.

528
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,880
Speaker 2: He's going after our law firms in a way that

529
00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:48,520
Speaker 2: I don't fully understand.

530
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:51,480
Speaker 1: And by the way, let me those and the law

531
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 1: firms are quickly capitult.

532
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:58,080
Speaker 2: Yeahstated, he's going after our law firms in a way

533
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 2: that even they don't understand the long term ramifications of it.

534
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:05,040
Speaker 2: There you go, and so guys, let's stop fighting with

535
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:08,640
Speaker 2: each other. Okay. We love our country. We love our system.

536
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:12,840
Speaker 2: We like the checks and balances, the decentralized nature of

537
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 2: the country that have allowed our families, the Newsome family,

538
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:21,080
Speaker 2: the Karamuchi family to rise, Okay, from modest beginnings, whether

539
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:23,880
Speaker 2: they were in Ireland or they were in Italy. We

540
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:28,600
Speaker 2: came here for this great opportunity. We don't want authoritarianism

541
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 2: to spoil it. He wants that. Okay, If you don't

542
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:35,720
Speaker 2: think he wants that, you're not paying close enough attention

543
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:39,240
Speaker 2: and you're not going down the list and somebody like you,

544
00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 2: I applaud you for bringing me on so that we

545
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:44,480
Speaker 2: can discuss this. I admire you for bringing these other

546
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 2: guys on that I may disagree with but I admire

547
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:51,360
Speaker 2: you for it because open the tent, let's get the

548
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:55,400
Speaker 2: people in the tent. There's more of us that love

549
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:58,920
Speaker 2: the country, care about the country. I may not agree

550
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:02,200
Speaker 2: with you on certain pots policy, so what we care

551
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:05,080
Speaker 2: and believe in the system together And I think that's

552
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:08,600
Speaker 2: the resonating message that you're going for. And I applaud

553
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 2: you for it.

554
00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:11,880
Speaker 1: Now and I appreciate that, and I hope our parties

555
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:14,640
Speaker 1: listening to that because this no I mean, you know,

556
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:18,280
Speaker 1: this is about addition, not subtraction. We can't afford to

557
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:21,200
Speaker 1: lose any more folks. And I think the cornerstone of

558
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:23,680
Speaker 1: this conversation is the folks we are losing is a

559
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 1: working class. Again. I keep going back to your story

560
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:35,360
Speaker 1: that was so resonant with you, at least as you

561
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:37,720
Speaker 1: continue to share it over the course of the years

562
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:40,440
Speaker 1: of being there on the campaign travel Donald Trump and

563
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:43,000
Speaker 1: giving voice to these folks. And Bernie Sanders in some

564
00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:45,920
Speaker 1: respects does as well. There's sort of populism on both

565
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 1: sides of the of the Aisle, but our party, for

566
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:51,960
Speaker 1: whatever reason, hasn't been able to connect in that respect.

567
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:54,960
Speaker 1: And to that point, I want to I want to

568
00:31:54,960 --> 00:32:00,200
Speaker 1: ask you this why because I thought, and my not

569
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:05,280
Speaker 1: just think, I core believe that Joe Biden and his

570
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 1: four years as president, was one of the most pro

571
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 1: worker presidents in my lifetime. He had an industrial policy

572
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:14,680
Speaker 1: that was workers centered. I mean, hell, even walk the

573
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:19,040
Speaker 1: picket line, the IRA, the chips and science ac the

574
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:21,400
Speaker 1: bipartisan bills, I mean there were over four hundred five

575
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:26,720
Speaker 1: bartisan bills. But infrastructure, the fact we saw actual investments

576
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:31,840
Speaker 1: being made again, supporting workers, supporting the heartland, supporting the

577
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:35,960
Speaker 1: folks quote unquote that we lost in this election. Did

578
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:38,920
Speaker 1: I read that wrong? You were a supporter of Biden.

579
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:42,400
Speaker 1: I thought we were making that point, but it seems

580
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 1: to have been lost, or at least wasn't inherited by Harris.

581
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:49,680
Speaker 2: I don't think you're reading that wrong. But what I

582
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 2: think we have to acknowledge, unfortunately, is that the presidency itself,

583
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 2: to quote Theodore Roosevelt, is a bully pulpit, and so

584
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:00,520
Speaker 2: one of the jobs of the president and he or

585
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:03,320
Speaker 2: she is to be the great salesman or saleswoman for

586
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:07,080
Speaker 2: the country. And the president put in the chip sacked

587
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:10,440
Speaker 2: very successful the Inflation Reduction Act, which had all that

588
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:14,720
Speaker 2: embedded infrastructure very successful. There was a lot of things

589
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:17,840
Speaker 2: that he did that were pro worker and pro union,

590
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:24,280
Speaker 2: very successful. But unfortunately the president was struggling verbally by

591
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:27,000
Speaker 2: the middle of his term and he was no longer

592
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:30,240
Speaker 2: able to passionately advocate for that. The sixty five year

593
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 2: old Joe Biden, if I'm just being brutally honest, would

594
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 2: have slayed Donald Trump stayed in the race, been able

595
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 2: to make that argument and built on that legislative agenda.

596
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:43,800
Speaker 2: Now he made that fatal Shakespearean mistake. He should have

597
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:47,040
Speaker 2: said in September of twenty three, here are the fifteen

598
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:49,960
Speaker 2: twenty things that I've done that very benefited the economy.

599
00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:53,920
Speaker 2: Economies on the uptick, inflation is on the downtick. I

600
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:58,400
Speaker 2: heard the message. I got the message from the absenteeism

601
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:03,400
Speaker 2: of US meaning normal Democrats, absenteeism. You know, I got

602
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:06,240
Speaker 2: the Bernie Sanders Trump message. This is what I'm doing

603
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:09,240
Speaker 2: with policy to fill the space. But I'm too old

604
00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:13,040
Speaker 2: for the job. And so it's September twenty twenty three.

605
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:16,960
Speaker 2: I'm going to open up the primary, okay, not having

606
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 2: not having a Democratic New Hampshire primary in twenty twenty four. Again,

607
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:25,960
Speaker 2: if I'm being brutally honest, or it's shameful because you're

608
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:30,839
Speaker 2: attacking Trump for his anti democracy stance, but then you're saying, well,

609
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:32,719
Speaker 2: we're not going to have a primary. Well, you know what,

610
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 2: even Jimmy Carter had that primary against Teddy Kennedy, and

611
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:39,759
Speaker 2: I think it's a I think it's a mistake, and

612
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:42,319
Speaker 2: so I don't want to go back and relitigate the

613
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:45,839
Speaker 2: whole thing. I respect the Biden family. I'm not trying

614
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:49,240
Speaker 2: to do that, but I'm saying going forward, you guys

615
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:52,239
Speaker 2: got to get it together, and you got to coalesce

616
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:57,520
Speaker 2: around a national figure that can offer the dissent, that

617
00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:03,319
Speaker 2: can offer the opposition. Now he's blowing I'm looking over

618
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:06,480
Speaker 2: the camera here to see NBC. He's blown the doors

619
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:09,840
Speaker 2: off the global economy. He's blown the doors off the

620
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:14,560
Speaker 2: stock market. We're plus fifty percent now, greater likely to

621
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:18,480
Speaker 2: have a recession, the poly markets saying four rate cuts

622
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:22,719
Speaker 2: are so that's a first quarter twenty six recession. And

623
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:26,600
Speaker 2: so get it together, beat these guys in the midterms,

624
00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:31,480
Speaker 2: get it together and put up a candidate to box

625
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:33,800
Speaker 2: these guys out in twenty eight so that the situation

626
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:35,040
Speaker 2: doesn't get worse.

627
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:36,480
Speaker 1: And Anthony, let me ask you a question. I mean,

628
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:38,640
Speaker 1: it's it's tactical, and I want to talk a little

629
00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:43,520
Speaker 1: bit about your perspective on Harris and the outcome, because

630
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:46,399
Speaker 1: I think you were like me that we felt more

631
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:50,360
Speaker 1: confident than certainly the outcome. But in terms of the

632
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:52,320
Speaker 1: guy or gal in the white horse to come save today,

633
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 1: I know, you know, parties tend to focus so much

634
00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:58,920
Speaker 1: on that, and my party, Democratic Party seems disproportionately always

635
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:02,480
Speaker 1: focused on the person on the white horse to save us,

636
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:06,280
Speaker 1: seems to me. Over the years, Uh, the Republican Party

637
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 1: has been a little bit more structurally focused on school

638
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:14,280
Speaker 1: boards and focusing on legislative races in states large and small,

639
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:17,680
Speaker 1: a bottom up frame, not necessarily a top.

640
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:20,360
Speaker 2: Generation operation, red maps or you know that. You know that,

641
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:23,120
Speaker 2: you know the coinage of that term, right. We they

642
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:26,600
Speaker 2: they said, Okay, we've got to get into those state legislatures.

643
00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:29,600
Speaker 2: They'll help us jerry mander these districts and will even

644
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:33,080
Speaker 2: though we're a minority party in terms of registrations, let's

645
00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:36,880
Speaker 2: organize and we'll beat these guys by using the tyranny

646
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:40,279
Speaker 2: of the minority right. The founders were worried about the

647
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:43,920
Speaker 2: tyranny of the majority, but the Republicans organize and assertive

648
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:48,239
Speaker 2: themselves using the tyranny of the minority. That's a fascinating

649
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:49,239
Speaker 2: point that you're bringing up.

650
00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:52,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so it's interesting for me. It's both and

651
00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:54,000
Speaker 1: and I one of the things that that I'm I

652
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:57,960
Speaker 1: caution my party about is if we're too fixated on

653
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:01,200
Speaker 1: a personality, uh, then we're miss an opportunity to sort

654
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:04,000
Speaker 1: of reimagine our party because there's bigger trend lines here

655
00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:07,360
Speaker 1: that sort of predate COVID and even Trump as it

656
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:10,240
Speaker 1: relates to, you know, starting to lose this multi ethnic

657
00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:15,160
Speaker 1: young men in particular across the spectrum. Some of that

658
00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:18,480
Speaker 1: was arrested because of COVID and Trump, but that that

659
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:21,520
Speaker 1: trend lines now big headline and I'm curious, you know,

660
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:25,160
Speaker 1: your sort of reflection on that, but also reflection on

661
00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:27,800
Speaker 1: where Harris may have struggled. Was it just one hundred

662
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:31,120
Speaker 1: and seven days. Was it the lack of an open primary.

663
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:34,080
Speaker 1: Was it the fact she didn't distinguish herself enough and

664
00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:37,640
Speaker 1: separate herself enough from an incumbent. Was it the issue

665
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:41,160
Speaker 1: of incumbency? Was it inflation? Was it interest rates? Was

666
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:45,400
Speaker 1: it immigration? Was it wokeism broadly defined. Have you landed

667
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:47,799
Speaker 1: on any theory of the case. So what the hell

668
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:49,560
Speaker 1: happened in that election?

669
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:51,680
Speaker 2: So let me let me give you three things. Some

670
00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:53,760
Speaker 2: of them are going to be controversial for your party,

671
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:55,759
Speaker 2: and so you know you're probably going to get some

672
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:58,440
Speaker 2: negative press me saying this on your air, and I

673
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:01,520
Speaker 2: apologize to you in advance, but I hope that people

674
00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:04,920
Speaker 2: listening will be open minded because I want you to win.

675
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:09,040
Speaker 2: You have to slay this maga party. This is no

676
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:11,480
Speaker 2: longer the Republican party I lived in, sir. This has

677
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:17,640
Speaker 2: been decapitated. Hostile takeover, third party insurgency has has changed

678
00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:22,080
Speaker 2: this into a Frankenstein monster, a Frankenstein monster of anti democracy.

679
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:24,879
Speaker 2: So we have to beat them. So if I would say,

680
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:28,480
Speaker 2: let's leave off the table of the open primary, it

681
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:30,440
Speaker 2: didn't happen. I think we would have liked to have

682
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:33,880
Speaker 2: seen that starting in September of twenty three, and that

683
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:35,719
Speaker 2: would have built up a case and somebody would have

684
00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:38,480
Speaker 2: grabbed you got to the top of the pecking order.

685
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:41,120
Speaker 2: That would have fortified that candidate. But in the one

686
00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:46,279
Speaker 2: hundred and seven days, I'll just make three very close observations.

687
00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:49,520
Speaker 2: Number one, the vice president is a very competent, very

688
00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:53,320
Speaker 2: capable leader. But she was not a great risk taker

689
00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:57,400
Speaker 2: in that moment. Unfortunately, to rise to the presidency now

690
00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:00,719
Speaker 2: it requires exogynous risks. If you've got a group of

691
00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:03,759
Speaker 2: handlers around you say, don't go on Rogan, don't go

692
00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:08,000
Speaker 2: on this person, don't go on that person. Fox News

693
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:11,399
Speaker 2: one time, not twenty five times. If I were her,

694
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:13,200
Speaker 2: I would have said, Hey, every morning to be on

695
00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:16,000
Speaker 2: Fox News. I'm going to eventually chum up to those

696
00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:18,200
Speaker 2: anchors that hate me, and I'm going to get some

697
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:20,960
Speaker 2: messaging out there where people will see that I'm not

698
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:23,040
Speaker 2: the demon that they're trying to present me. As you

699
00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:25,640
Speaker 2: see what I mean. I would have said, Hey, Fox News,

700
00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:28,200
Speaker 2: I want to be on every day. You know these

701
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:32,920
Speaker 2: podcasts that people are excoriating me, these Alpha bro podcasts

702
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:35,960
Speaker 2: at least once or twice a week. Okay, So she

703
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:39,000
Speaker 2: was not a risk taker. That's number one. Number two.

704
00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:42,600
Speaker 2: Robert Carrow in his books on Lyndon Johnson, which I

705
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:45,799
Speaker 2: think are some of the best biography ever written, he

706
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:50,520
Speaker 2: describes Humphrey's situation with Johnson. He didn't break from Johnson.

707
00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:53,880
Speaker 2: Johnson comes out of the race in sixty eight. Humphrey

708
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 2: waits till October one to break from Johnson. He's not

709
00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:00,440
Speaker 2: even willing to do with any such a gentleman. Johnson

710
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:03,440
Speaker 2: brings him into the Oval office and says, you gotta

711
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:05,960
Speaker 2: break from me. You want a blankety blank on me

712
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:08,920
Speaker 2: on the Vietnam War, blankety blank on this, blankety blank

713
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:12,680
Speaker 2: on that. You got to do it. And so he

714
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:18,040
Speaker 2: starts that process in October. It's too late, and unfortunately

715
00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:22,840
Speaker 2: the Vice president's respect for Joe Biden, that infamous line

716
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:24,840
Speaker 2: that she says on the View, I can't think of

717
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:28,160
Speaker 2: anything I would have done differently, is harmful to her

718
00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:31,440
Speaker 2: because we're in an anti incumbency moment and she needed

719
00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:36,480
Speaker 2: to do what Johnson suggested to Humphrey. But in Humphrey's case,

720
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:39,319
Speaker 2: it was too late, sir. The polls were closing. He

721
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:42,239
Speaker 2: was catching Nixon when he made that break, but it

722
00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:45,759
Speaker 2: was too late. And then the third thing, and I

723
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:47,840
Speaker 2: know this is really going to drive everybody crazy. So

724
00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:50,319
Speaker 2: you have a fire extinguisher behind you in case your

725
00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:53,080
Speaker 2: hair sets on fire, because the third thing is really bad.

726
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:58,120
Speaker 2: You're okay, you're a flame. You're in a flame retardan

727
00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:01,040
Speaker 2: vest there let's do it. Let's hear it. The third

728
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:04,640
Speaker 2: thing is, how on God's earth do you let Bobby

729
00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:08,880
Speaker 2: and Elon out of the party? And how do you guys? Interesting? Okay,

730
00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:10,360
Speaker 2: I was expecting that.

731
00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:13,200
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, interesting, I wasn't expecting you to say that.

732
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:15,800
Speaker 2: Okay, But how do you guys do that? Okay? Bobby

733
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:20,680
Speaker 2: is a Kennedy whole families tied to the party. He

734
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:23,600
Speaker 2: actually wants to stay in the party. And I know

735
00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:27,400
Speaker 2: this because he endorsed the back of my Bitcoin book. Okay,

736
00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:31,279
Speaker 2: and I know Bobby forever from New York. How do

737
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:33,600
Speaker 2: you let Bobby out of the party? Okay? And even

738
00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:35,640
Speaker 2: if you don't like Bobby or you think he's a

739
00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:39,919
Speaker 2: kook with the vaccines, you get open the tent, keep

740
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:43,880
Speaker 2: them in the party because he's got that bro connectivity

741
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:47,719
Speaker 2: that costs you a few points where you don't want them.

742
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:51,320
Speaker 2: And Elon, I don't care what the UAW saying or

743
00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:55,640
Speaker 2: whoever told whoever told Biden to disinvite Elon from the

744
00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:58,480
Speaker 2: Electric Vehicle summit. I don't know who it was, but

745
00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:01,200
Speaker 2: President Biden shaid, look, man, I'm sorry. The guy's the

746
00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:04,120
Speaker 2: richest guy in the country. He's got a forty four

747
00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:07,440
Speaker 2: billion dollar bullhorn, and he's coming to the party.

748
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:10,279
Speaker 1: So he also created the space. You can't how the

749
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:11,560
Speaker 1: hell you have an electric vehicle.

750
00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:13,680
Speaker 2: You don't have to sit next to the guy. And

751
00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:15,200
Speaker 2: you may not like him because he doesn't have a

752
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:18,560
Speaker 2: union shop, but he's our guy, and we got we

753
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:20,440
Speaker 2: got to keep him in the party. And just so,

754
00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:25,279
Speaker 2: those two guys, they hurt you in Pennsylvania. Elon hurts

755
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:29,480
Speaker 2: you in Pennsylvania. He hurts you in the Twitter verse

756
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:32,799
Speaker 2: or whatever you want to call it with the toxic algorithm,

757
00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:36,719
Speaker 2: and Bobby hurts you. And I'm just submitting again this

758
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:38,880
Speaker 2: is the indictment of your party. If I could be

759
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:42,879
Speaker 2: bold enough to say this to you, respectfully, open the tent,

760
00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:46,439
Speaker 2: hold your nose. If somebody like me wants to help you,

761
00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:50,359
Speaker 2: invite me in. I will try to help you get

762
00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:52,440
Speaker 2: those guys back in the party. I know you want

763
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:54,680
Speaker 2: to cancel them now, you want to blow up Tesla

764
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:58,720
Speaker 2: vehicles and so on and so forth. Yeah, get Elon back. Okay,

765
00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:03,600
Speaker 2: calm down, calmed down. He's shooting rockets into space. He's

766
00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:07,040
Speaker 2: got an environmentally friendly vehicle that he's made, which you

767
00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:10,359
Speaker 2: guys used to buy in droves. Let's calm him down,

768
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:13,640
Speaker 2: Let's disengage him from where he is right now, get

769
00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:18,120
Speaker 2: him back to neutral, because those three things hurt Harris.

770
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:21,960
Speaker 2: No risk taking, no break from Humphrey, And how to

771
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:24,160
Speaker 2: hell do you let Bobby and Elon out of that party.

772
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:29,239
Speaker 1: It's interesting and in the fact that you attached I mean,

773
00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:32,360
Speaker 1: the first two I certainly appreciate, but it's interesting you

774
00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:36,240
Speaker 1: thought it was that determinative these two individuals, these brands,

775
00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:40,439
Speaker 1: and what they represent historically and iconically. Both interestingly, two

776
00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:44,120
Speaker 1: people that are best known for their environmental stewardship.

777
00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:49,760
Speaker 2: There were Democrats for decades, Governor Newsom, they were, By.

778
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:50,400
Speaker 1: The way, I can't tell you how many events I

779
00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:53,720
Speaker 1: had with both of them in San Francisco as mayor

780
00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:57,360
Speaker 1: of the city, talking about environmental stewardship, climate change, and

781
00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:01,239
Speaker 1: issues related to low carbon, green growth and electric vehicle transition.

782
00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:06,359
Speaker 2: What he did, Asolish was, you know, to quote him,

783
00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:08,680
Speaker 2: because he says he's on the spectrum ofge It was

784
00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:12,320
Speaker 2: on the spectrum beautiful. He got them all in vance.

785
00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:15,640
Speaker 2: He told them that the unpasteurized milk that they were

786
00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:19,000
Speaker 2: pumping out of their dairy farms was going to be destroyed.

787
00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:21,840
Speaker 2: Misinformation that was, you know, he gets he gets a

788
00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:25,120
Speaker 2: red red card for that. He says that Biden's going

789
00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:26,600
Speaker 2: to come after them with that. And then he gets

790
00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:28,320
Speaker 2: them in a van because it can only take the

791
00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:31,760
Speaker 2: horse and buggy unless they're not driving, and he drives

792
00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:34,720
Speaker 2: them over to the voting and there's ninety nine thousand

793
00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:38,719
Speaker 2: of them vote for Trump. And I'm telling you, this

794
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:41,160
Speaker 2: is a game of inches. You know this. I know this.

795
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:47,320
Speaker 2: I've worked on six presidential campaigns in the last twenty

796
00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:50,160
Speaker 2: four years. It is a game of inches. It's a

797
00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:54,960
Speaker 2: game of risk taking. It's a game of calculated risk taking.

798
00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:57,279
Speaker 2: But when you got guys on your team that you

799
00:44:57,360 --> 00:45:01,239
Speaker 2: may not like, don't be so righteous. Bring them into

800
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:04,520
Speaker 2: the town. I was told that some of the campaign

801
00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:07,200
Speaker 2: guys wanted me on the campaign plane, and there were

802
00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:10,279
Speaker 2: hardcore lefties that were like, nfw with that guy. He

803
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:14,120
Speaker 2: wants to worked for Donald Trump. Guys, give give that up,

804
00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:19,239
Speaker 2: release anger, and let's let's study the existential threat and

805
00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:20,000
Speaker 2: work together.

806
00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:28,080
Speaker 1: And that disappoints me to hear you say that, But

807
00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:31,480
Speaker 1: it doesn't shock me. I mean and and disappoints me

808
00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:33,600
Speaker 1: because I saw hard you worked for Biden, And then

809
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:36,359
Speaker 1: how hard and sincerely you worked for Harris and how

810
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:40,880
Speaker 1: you've been a pretty consistent and vocal opponent of Donald Trump.

811
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:42,560
Speaker 1: And with your insight.

812
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:44,799
Speaker 2: This is not it's not even republicanism, sir. It is

813
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:51,040
Speaker 2: a perverse form of populism. And I'm going to give

814
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:53,520
Speaker 2: you a new word, okay. And I didn't know the

815
00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:56,000
Speaker 2: definition of this word, but I know it now. Do

816
00:45:56,040 --> 00:45:58,880
Speaker 2: you know what the word autarchy means? A U t

817
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:01,640
Speaker 2: a rky. Do you know what that means?

818
00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:02,840
Speaker 1: You got me stumped me?

819
00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:04,279
Speaker 2: What is it? Okay? So I didn't know what it

820
00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:07,640
Speaker 2: meant either. Okay, somebody had explained it to me. Au

821
00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:15,120
Speaker 2: t aarky. It means an autonomous economic system. So Trump

822
00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:20,040
Speaker 2: wants to create an American auetarchy. He wants to wall

823
00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:24,280
Speaker 2: us off literally and physically from the rest of the world.

824
00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:27,680
Speaker 2: He wants to disengage America. It would be as if

825
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:32,240
Speaker 2: Ui Long or Charles Lindbergh beat Franklin Roosevelt and created

826
00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:35,480
Speaker 2: the America First Movement in the nineteen thirties. This is

827
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:39,600
Speaker 2: what this guy wants to do, Okay. And I'm telling

828
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:43,520
Speaker 2: you this is an existential threat to our children and

829
00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:49,160
Speaker 2: our grandchildren. Put down the swords. Let's work together. Let's

830
00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:52,400
Speaker 2: figure out how AOC and Bernie can build this coalition

831
00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:57,920
Speaker 2: alongside of whatever you're representing, and frankly, alongside of whatever Christy,

832
00:46:58,080 --> 00:47:04,360
Speaker 2: myself and Kissinger and Cheney are representing. And let's lock forces.

833
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:08,560
Speaker 2: Remember the Whigs got destroyed by a new party called

834
00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:12,000
Speaker 2: the Republicans. They got destroyed by that party because they

835
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:15,120
Speaker 2: created a new party in eighteen fifty six. They went

836
00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:18,600
Speaker 2: after the abolitionists that were Democrats, and they went after

837
00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:22,319
Speaker 2: the Whigs that wanted abolition, and they created this new

838
00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:24,840
Speaker 2: party and they got a guy named Abraham Lincoln elected

839
00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:31,359
Speaker 2: the first Republican president. The new Whig party is the

840
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:35,640
Speaker 2: Maga Party, which has the Republican name in name only.

841
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:40,360
Speaker 2: They're the tru Rhinos Governor Newsom, They're Maga Republicans in

842
00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:45,640
Speaker 2: name only. Let's team up and let's build a coalition

843
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:51,160
Speaker 2: that is a plurality, a majority to restore confidence in

844
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:56,399
Speaker 2: America globally, to restore confidence in America economically. And then

845
00:47:56,520 --> 00:47:59,480
Speaker 2: let's once once we look at the burning of the House,

846
00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:03,400
Speaker 2: let's fixed parts of the House with maybe some constitutional amendments,

847
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:07,120
Speaker 2: maybe some policies or laws that will benefit all of

848
00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:09,960
Speaker 2: us and make us safer in sort of a new

849
00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:11,440
Speaker 2: American social contract.

850
00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:13,640
Speaker 1: Well, you're not going to get an argument from me,

851
00:48:13,719 --> 00:48:16,640
Speaker 1: and you know, I'm not that old, but I'm old

852
00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:18,960
Speaker 1: enough to remember that that's the Democratic party you were

853
00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:22,279
Speaker 1: referencing that built the middle class, that that gave us

854
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:25,680
Speaker 1: the weekends, that gave us medicaid, gave us medicare.

855
00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:30,319
Speaker 2: How about the gipill sir, thank you transformed everything that

856
00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:34,680
Speaker 2: was a Democrat idea, and that GI bill took Jewish

857
00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:38,000
Speaker 2: tailors from the Lower East Side and turned their children

858
00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:42,920
Speaker 2: into doctors. They took Italian construction workers and turned their

859
00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:47,120
Speaker 2: sons and daughters into accountants, lawyers, or doctors. We had

860
00:48:47,120 --> 00:48:53,840
Speaker 2: an ethnic middle class movement, driven mostly by Democrat policy

861
00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:58,880
Speaker 2: in the post World War two era that gave opportunity

862
00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:01,360
Speaker 2: to people that didn't have it in the Old Country

863
00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:04,799
Speaker 2: and didn't frankly have it in America prior to that.

864
00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:08,680
Speaker 2: These are these that's the idealism of your party. That's

865
00:49:08,719 --> 00:49:13,120
Speaker 2: the Jack Kennedy vision of your portom Amen.

866
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:15,799
Speaker 1: Look, let me ask you just in you know a

867
00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:19,800
Speaker 1: couple of tactical points, and I appreciate the larger tent framework.

868
00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:22,040
Speaker 1: I think this party needs a vision and needs an

869
00:49:22,080 --> 00:49:24,960
Speaker 1: economic vision. H you know, I think if you're going

870
00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:27,439
Speaker 1: to talk about Kennedy, you know, he was the last

871
00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:30,319
Speaker 1: president to bring us on a journey together. We saw

872
00:49:30,360 --> 00:49:34,080
Speaker 1: ourselves on that journey, and I think that's a big

873
00:49:34,120 --> 00:49:37,440
Speaker 1: part of also what's missing. What's what's the positive alternative

874
00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:40,560
Speaker 1: vision that can enlive in and excite people and people

875
00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:44,400
Speaker 1: feel included at a time of such division and fear

876
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:47,600
Speaker 1: and anxiety. But there's also the fear and anxiety in

877
00:49:47,640 --> 00:49:51,120
Speaker 1: the vision that comes from the information superiority on the

878
00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:54,360
Speaker 1: other side, as well, the weaponization of grievance, the ability

879
00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:59,360
Speaker 1: to surround sound, to dominate the narrative, to flood the zone.

880
00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:02,760
Speaker 1: In terms of communication, you've got sort of a gender bias,

881
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:06,680
Speaker 1: I would argue algorithms that skew as well. Online you

882
00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:09,600
Speaker 1: got fourteen of the top fifteen cable shows are all

883
00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:14,319
Speaker 1: Republican shows. Podcasts are dominated, as you say, you know,

884
00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:16,320
Speaker 1: it's not just that manto spare of the bro culture,

885
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:19,400
Speaker 1: but sort of dominated by more moderate to conservative to

886
00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:23,319
Speaker 1: ultra conservative voices. What do you make of that landscape

887
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:26,239
Speaker 1: and what's if you were going to just observe as

888
00:50:26,239 --> 00:50:30,759
Speaker 1: a participant. You've got two podcasts, successful podcasts. You're out there.

889
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:33,680
Speaker 1: You've been in the media dominating for decades, back to

890
00:50:33,719 --> 00:50:37,399
Speaker 1: your CNBC days, remember a few decades ago. I mean,

891
00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:39,480
Speaker 1: what do you make of this environment and what do

892
00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:42,640
Speaker 1: you make of how do we begin to sort of

893
00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:46,480
Speaker 1: reconcile with that, and how do we sort of address

894
00:50:46,560 --> 00:50:48,680
Speaker 1: the reckoning that is that asymmetry?

895
00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:51,000
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, it's such a great question on so

896
00:50:51,040 --> 00:50:53,319
Speaker 2: many levels and so many different layers. But I'll just

897
00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:58,400
Speaker 2: add one thing to it. While the conservatives are dominating podcasting,

898
00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:01,080
Speaker 2: and let's be honest, they are dominant cable news, mostly

899
00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:06,680
Speaker 2: through Fox. They say the corrupt mainstream media is against us,

900
00:51:06,719 --> 00:51:09,840
Speaker 2: you know, But in the meantime, the media it's almost

901
00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:14,680
Speaker 2: like the typewriter business, right, the big media is dying, okay.

902
00:51:14,719 --> 00:51:17,520
Speaker 2: And the reason why I applaud you starting this podcast

903
00:51:17,600 --> 00:51:19,480
Speaker 2: is you're going to reach a lot of people because

904
00:51:19,520 --> 00:51:22,080
Speaker 2: they can download you on their phone, they can go

905
00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:24,640
Speaker 2: for a walk, they can hear what you're saying, and

906
00:51:24,640 --> 00:51:26,319
Speaker 2: they'll say, Okay, I like that one, and then they

907
00:51:26,360 --> 00:51:27,960
Speaker 2: forward it to five of their friends. It's like that

908
00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:30,600
Speaker 2: old shampoo commercial and so what I would say to

909
00:51:30,640 --> 00:51:35,360
Speaker 2: the Democrats start over. Okay, be the engineers, and you

910
00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:39,959
Speaker 2: remember that movie Brian Grazer Ron Howard Apollo thirteen, Tom

911
00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:44,080
Speaker 2: Hanks plays Jim Lovell. Be the engineers that go into

912
00:51:44,120 --> 00:51:46,600
Speaker 2: the room and say, here's the tools on the table.

913
00:51:47,080 --> 00:51:51,240
Speaker 2: We have to reinvent ourselves. Forget the mainstream media, forget

914
00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:56,960
Speaker 2: the old totems. Let's be engineers. Let's be scientific, marketing engineers,

915
00:51:57,520 --> 00:52:02,120
Speaker 2: media engineers. How would we reinvent ourselves today? And what

916
00:52:02,120 --> 00:52:04,480
Speaker 2: will we do? What podcast would we have? What business

917
00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:08,719
Speaker 2: podcast would we have? What messaging do we want out there?

918
00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:12,319
Speaker 2: How do we stop attacking each other? The Republicans have

919
00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:16,520
Speaker 2: done a very good job of not attacking each other. Okay.

920
00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:20,680
Speaker 2: I find it curious that Bannon goes after Musk. Okay,

921
00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:23,160
Speaker 2: because I know Bannon well. I work with Bannon on

922
00:52:23,160 --> 00:52:27,040
Speaker 2: the twenty sixteen campaign. He's going after Musk for many

923
00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:31,120
Speaker 2: different reasons. But he knows that Musk is not pure Maga.

924
00:52:31,239 --> 00:52:35,319
Speaker 2: He knows this, Okay. He knows Musk is reacting to

925
00:52:35,440 --> 00:52:38,440
Speaker 2: what happened to him in the world of the Blue world.

926
00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:41,600
Speaker 2: He moved into the Red world or the dark Maga world.

927
00:52:41,640 --> 00:52:43,719
Speaker 2: Whatever he calls it because of what happened to him

928
00:52:43,719 --> 00:52:46,400
Speaker 2: in the blue world. So get to the table like

929
00:52:46,440 --> 00:52:51,520
Speaker 2: the engineers on Apollo thirteen. Let's start from scratch. Let's

930
00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:54,319
Speaker 2: have a summit. You call the summit. I'll be there,

931
00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:59,959
Speaker 2: and let's part a laboratory of ideas to beat this back.

932
00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:04,719
Speaker 2: Because the average American is kind, the average American does

933
00:53:04,800 --> 00:53:08,960
Speaker 2: not want to play the victim. The average American is aspirational,

934
00:53:09,520 --> 00:53:13,320
Speaker 2: and the average American believes in lifting the boats of others.

935
00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:17,240
Speaker 2: You know, the martial law, the Marshall Plan. Excuse me past,

936
00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:21,360
Speaker 2: because the average American looked at the landscape of the

937
00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:24,239
Speaker 2: world and said, the world needs this, and if it's

938
00:53:24,280 --> 00:53:26,000
Speaker 2: good for the world, it's going to be good for us.

939
00:53:26,040 --> 00:53:29,799
Speaker 2: And you know, Governor Newsom, you're at your best when

940
00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:34,359
Speaker 2: you're helping other people. Americans know this. Americans get their

941
00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:38,200
Speaker 2: best feeling on the side of giving. Donald Trump has

942
00:53:38,239 --> 00:53:40,640
Speaker 2: set up in America and I'm going to give you

943
00:53:40,719 --> 00:53:44,399
Speaker 2: these two allegories. You have one blue collar family where

944
00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:46,719
Speaker 2: the young man in the blue collar family rises the

945
00:53:46,719 --> 00:53:50,120
Speaker 2: great success and he pays for some tuitions. Governor Newsham,

946
00:53:50,680 --> 00:53:53,880
Speaker 2: he buys a car, He helps people with medical expenses

947
00:53:54,360 --> 00:53:57,439
Speaker 2: because he's the one rich person in the otherwise blue

948
00:53:57,440 --> 00:54:02,080
Speaker 2: collar family. Imagine the second family or the same thing happens,

949
00:54:02,719 --> 00:54:05,600
Speaker 2: but the manner of the woman builds this beautiful swimming

950
00:54:05,600 --> 00:54:08,640
Speaker 2: pool and this great mansion, and then they charge their

951
00:54:08,680 --> 00:54:11,399
Speaker 2: family members to come into the swiming pool. Hey, gav

952
00:54:11,480 --> 00:54:13,120
Speaker 2: you want to come to my swimming pool. It's twenty

953
00:54:13,160 --> 00:54:19,240
Speaker 2: five bucks. Which family is going to do better? Which family? Yeah? Okay?

954
00:54:19,239 --> 00:54:22,640
Speaker 2: And the Democrats know this. The Democrats know this in

955
00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:26,440
Speaker 2: their bone marrow. Get back to the table. This is

956
00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:30,360
Speaker 2: what we represent. This is the party that built the

957
00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:33,040
Speaker 2: United Nations. This is the party that laid the framework

958
00:54:33,320 --> 00:54:37,320
Speaker 2: at Bretton Woods for the IMF and the World Bank. Okay.

959
00:54:37,400 --> 00:54:41,960
Speaker 2: And by the way, globalism, I maintain just has bad marketing. Okay,

960
00:54:41,960 --> 00:54:46,120
Speaker 2: because the globalism has led to rising living standards here

961
00:54:46,120 --> 00:54:52,200
Speaker 2: in the United States, elsewhere, better health standards, less pestilence.

962
00:54:53,440 --> 00:54:56,320
Speaker 2: It is actually worked. We just got really bad marketing

963
00:54:56,360 --> 00:54:59,560
Speaker 2: people involved with this. Get back to the table and

964
00:55:00,040 --> 00:55:02,000
Speaker 2: and let's brush up on this. And I think the

965
00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:05,080
Speaker 2: counter narrative would blow the doors off these people. They

966
00:55:05,120 --> 00:55:06,200
Speaker 2: are in the minority.

967
00:55:06,239 --> 00:55:11,399
Speaker 1: By the way, final question, just because I'm curious. I mean,

968
00:55:11,400 --> 00:55:16,880
Speaker 1: when the dust settles on Trump, Trump is'm then is

969
00:55:17,000 --> 00:55:19,480
Speaker 1: top of mind? And what's top of mind for a

970
00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:22,719
Speaker 1: lot of folks out there that are whispering, is what's JD.

971
00:55:22,840 --> 00:55:23,400
Speaker 2: Vance up to?

972
00:55:24,000 --> 00:55:26,880
Speaker 1: You know, you talk about Elon Musk, you talk about

973
00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:33,840
Speaker 1: others that really supported his nomination for vice president, members

974
00:55:33,880 --> 00:55:37,680
Speaker 1: of Trump's own family, Peter Thiel types and others. You've

975
00:55:37,680 --> 00:55:44,480
Speaker 1: got Bannon out there, either performatively or very seriously making

976
00:55:44,480 --> 00:55:48,279
Speaker 1: the case twenty twenty eight Donald Trump extending term or

977
00:55:48,320 --> 00:55:51,880
Speaker 1: it's Tran or it's Vance, and then he'll step aside

978
00:55:52,400 --> 00:55:56,160
Speaker 1: and we'll continue MAGA for another four years. I mean,

979
00:55:56,440 --> 00:55:58,839
Speaker 1: what do you make of the twenty twenty eight third term?

980
00:55:58,840 --> 00:55:59,719
Speaker 1: What do you make of JD.

981
00:55:59,840 --> 00:55:59,960
Speaker 3: Van?

982
00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:03,600
Speaker 1: That's how serious and concerned are you about JD. Vance

983
00:56:03,640 --> 00:56:05,960
Speaker 1: and what he represents and the people that are his

984
00:56:06,080 --> 00:56:07,560
Speaker 1: close as confidence and allies.

985
00:56:08,560 --> 00:56:11,839
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, so you know from California, these guys

986
00:56:11,840 --> 00:56:15,960
Speaker 2: are Curtis Jorvin post the Democracy sort of people. They

987
00:56:15,960 --> 00:56:19,480
Speaker 2: believe in a monarchical structure that would be Teel and Musk,

988
00:56:19,560 --> 00:56:22,000
Speaker 2: and JD. Vance is an acolyte of that, which is

989
00:56:22,040 --> 00:56:24,000
Speaker 2: why they put him in there. It's interesting. I really

990
00:56:24,000 --> 00:56:28,279
Speaker 2: feel Trump made that decision distracted by a bullet that

991
00:56:28,320 --> 00:56:31,400
Speaker 2: whizzed by his ear. He only had seventy two hours

992
00:56:31,400 --> 00:56:34,200
Speaker 2: to compose himself prior to the convention, and I think

993
00:56:34,239 --> 00:56:36,080
Speaker 2: he made that decision. I don't think he likes Vance.

994
00:56:36,360 --> 00:56:39,400
Speaker 2: He's been pretty clear when he says is he my successor?

995
00:56:39,440 --> 00:56:43,120
Speaker 2: He says no. He slammed Vance after the Margaret Brennan

996
00:56:43,719 --> 00:56:47,280
Speaker 2: Sunday Morning Show where Vance said We're going to pardon

997
00:56:47,360 --> 00:56:50,680
Speaker 2: the non violent Jay sixers. Trump got pissed at him

998
00:56:50,719 --> 00:56:55,480
Speaker 2: and pardoned everybody. So you remember that scene in Fargo

999
00:56:55,520 --> 00:56:59,080
Speaker 2: with the wood chipper. Vance is going into Donald trump

1000
00:56:59,160 --> 00:57:03,360
Speaker 2: woodchipper just matter of time because he's too close to power.

1001
00:57:03,760 --> 00:57:06,920
Speaker 2: Trump doesn't like anybody near his spotlight, as you know,

1002
00:57:07,600 --> 00:57:09,720
Speaker 2: and so he'll do to Dvance what he did to Pence.

1003
00:57:09,880 --> 00:57:14,880
Speaker 2: So I'm not as concerned about Vance as other people.

1004
00:57:15,320 --> 00:57:19,240
Speaker 2: The third term thing, I do believe people should take seriously.

1005
00:57:19,520 --> 00:57:22,919
Speaker 2: He's eighty two when he aspires to that third term.

1006
00:57:22,960 --> 00:57:25,760
Speaker 2: That's good for America that he's that old. But I

1007
00:57:25,760 --> 00:57:28,960
Speaker 2: think you have to take that seriously, and you have

1008
00:57:29,040 --> 00:57:31,840
Speaker 2: to take seriously that the stuff that he's doing to

1009
00:57:31,920 --> 00:57:35,840
Speaker 2: weak in America. You know, I'm in the category that

1010
00:57:35,880 --> 00:57:38,320
Speaker 2: you have to have at least a five percent probability

1011
00:57:38,760 --> 00:57:41,640
Speaker 2: that he tries to call off an election. Other people

1012
00:57:41,640 --> 00:57:44,360
Speaker 2: will find that incredulous, but I think you got to

1013
00:57:44,360 --> 00:57:47,120
Speaker 2: get it out there because there's a law of reflexivity, Gavin.

1014
00:57:47,120 --> 00:57:50,280
Speaker 2: If you get that out there, people will start socializing it,

1015
00:57:50,360 --> 00:57:53,520
Speaker 2: and then they'll plan themselves to attack that. If I

1016
00:57:53,560 --> 00:57:55,640
Speaker 2: talk to somebody and say, well, that's never going to happen,

1017
00:57:56,000 --> 00:57:58,920
Speaker 2: well then you don't know Donald Trump. So many things

1018
00:57:58,920 --> 00:58:01,920
Speaker 2: have happened in the last ten years that I literally

1019
00:58:02,000 --> 00:58:03,960
Speaker 2: looked right down the barrel of a camera and said

1020
00:58:04,040 --> 00:58:07,560
Speaker 2: that's never gonna happen, and then two months later it happens.

1021
00:58:08,120 --> 00:58:11,960
Speaker 2: So I've got five percent he's going for the third term, okay,

1022
00:58:12,360 --> 00:58:15,160
Speaker 2: and I've got, you know, some percentage that he could

1023
00:58:15,200 --> 00:58:17,840
Speaker 2: not even have try to pretend that he can't have

1024
00:58:17,880 --> 00:58:20,600
Speaker 2: an election. I do think the country's strong enough to

1025
00:58:20,640 --> 00:58:22,680
Speaker 2: stop that, but I have to throw that out there.

1026
00:58:23,280 --> 00:58:25,080
Speaker 2: But I do think Vance goes into the whip chipper.

1027
00:58:25,080 --> 00:58:29,280
Speaker 2: By the way, he's unpopular, he looks terrible, and if

1028
00:58:29,280 --> 00:58:32,080
Speaker 2: he wants to out Trump, Trump, shave your beard buddy,

1029
00:58:32,080 --> 00:58:35,560
Speaker 2: because the beard looks terrible, and Trump doesn't like the beard.

1030
00:58:35,960 --> 00:58:38,040
Speaker 2: And I'm just letting you know, you're not going to

1031
00:58:38,080 --> 00:58:40,960
Speaker 2: Greenland like you did and going to Space Force. You

1032
00:58:41,080 --> 00:58:44,000
Speaker 2: really look like a dummy. So I'm not worried about him.

1033
00:58:44,560 --> 00:58:48,480
Speaker 2: What I'm worried about is that younger movement. I am

1034
00:58:48,520 --> 00:58:52,320
Speaker 2: worried about the Charlie Kirks. I am worried about the

1035
00:58:52,320 --> 00:58:56,160
Speaker 2: the podcasters that are out there that are strong, vigorous

1036
00:58:56,680 --> 00:59:01,080
Speaker 2: guys and girls that are incredibly smart, and you guys

1037
00:59:01,120 --> 00:59:03,560
Speaker 2: need a counterdough to that, and so let's ship to

1038
00:59:03,600 --> 00:59:04,160
Speaker 2: work on that.

1039
00:59:04,240 --> 00:59:06,320
Speaker 1: You know, No, that's why, that's one of the reasons.

1040
00:59:06,400 --> 00:59:09,080
Speaker 1: I mean, that's precisely why I'm trying to bte these

1041
00:59:09,120 --> 00:59:13,000
Speaker 1: folks in so we start to understand how how potent

1042
00:59:13,080 --> 00:59:16,800
Speaker 1: and powerful they've increasingly become. Final final over under Musk

1043
00:59:17,480 --> 00:59:22,160
Speaker 1: is gone in two months, Uh, Rubio two months? What

1044
00:59:22,240 --> 00:59:23,880
Speaker 1: I mean, what's what's your over under on some of

1045
00:59:23,880 --> 00:59:25,840
Speaker 1: the I mean, he can't keep players around.

1046
00:59:25,600 --> 00:59:27,600
Speaker 2: Now because remember they have to own the libs, right,

1047
00:59:28,000 --> 00:59:31,960
Speaker 2: so Walsh can get on signal. He's texting Jeff Goldberg

1048
00:59:32,160 --> 00:59:34,760
Speaker 2: like war plans, and then it turns out he's using

1049
00:59:34,840 --> 00:59:37,360
Speaker 2: Gmail for all of the other stuff. So you know

1050
00:59:37,360 --> 00:59:39,480
Speaker 2: they're upset with Hillary Clinton for some reason. But then

1051
00:59:39,480 --> 00:59:42,840
Speaker 2: they're doing worse than mine did. And so he can't

1052
00:59:42,880 --> 00:59:46,400
Speaker 2: fire Walsh because he can't Waltz, because he can't give

1053
00:59:46,440 --> 00:59:49,080
Speaker 2: a liberal a scalp. You know, we got to own

1054
00:59:49,080 --> 00:59:52,560
Speaker 2: the Libs. Remember, he is the Napoleon of the culture war,

1055
00:59:52,640 --> 00:59:55,600
Speaker 2: Donald Trump. Okay, so you guys have to find Wellington,

1056
00:59:55,960 --> 00:59:58,280
Speaker 2: but he's the Napoleon, so we can't. You know, we

1057
00:59:58,360 --> 01:00:00,640
Speaker 2: got to own the Libs first before we do anything else. Right,

1058
01:00:00,680 --> 01:00:03,600
Speaker 2: We've got to run the ads on the trans gender athletics,

1059
01:00:03,600 --> 01:00:06,800
Speaker 2: even though it's a small group of people to trigger everybody. Right,

1060
01:00:07,240 --> 01:00:11,120
Speaker 2: So that guy's not getting fired. Right. So what Trump

1061
01:00:11,480 --> 01:00:16,760
Speaker 2: is pushing and what you have to be worried about,

1062
01:00:16,920 --> 01:00:20,480
Speaker 2: in my opinion, is that persistent clure. You guys seem

1063
01:00:20,480 --> 01:00:23,920
Speaker 2: to be one step behind him in every culture war.

1064
01:00:24,400 --> 01:00:26,800
Speaker 2: You know, I mean Bill, Bill's going to have dinner

1065
01:00:26,840 --> 01:00:29,280
Speaker 2: with him. Okay, Bill's on your team. By the way,

1066
01:00:29,320 --> 01:00:32,640
Speaker 2: don't let Bill go the way of Elon Musk. And

1067
01:00:32,680 --> 01:00:35,880
Speaker 2: by yeah, Bill Maher, don't let him go the way

1068
01:00:35,880 --> 01:00:38,400
Speaker 2: of Elon Musk. By give them when you're done with

1069
01:00:38,440 --> 01:00:42,000
Speaker 2: me podcasting, pick up the phone, call Billy, dude, let's

1070
01:00:42,000 --> 01:00:46,200
Speaker 2: go have lunch. Calm down, okay, I'm I'm sure he

1071
01:00:46,240 --> 01:00:48,720
Speaker 2: had Wellington in the White House Trumps eat said every

1072
01:00:48,800 --> 01:00:52,040
Speaker 2: night for dinner. Calm down, okay, and come back to

1073
01:00:52,080 --> 01:00:54,800
Speaker 2: the fault here, Billy, because we need you and you

1074
01:00:54,800 --> 01:00:57,720
Speaker 2: need us. You don't you don't want to go down.

1075
01:00:59,080 --> 01:01:00,960
Speaker 1: I have to agree with that, right.

1076
01:01:01,000 --> 01:01:02,439
Speaker 2: And by the way, you did great on his show

1077
01:01:02,480 --> 01:01:04,320
Speaker 2: the other night. I mean, you're very realistic, you know.

1078
01:01:04,360 --> 01:01:07,360
Speaker 2: But I've been on a show many times. But but dude,

1079
01:01:07,480 --> 01:01:10,240
Speaker 2: you know, don't let them. Don't let them go that way. Man,

1080
01:01:10,640 --> 01:01:11,400
Speaker 2: hear what you're saying.

1081
01:01:12,000 --> 01:01:14,840
Speaker 1: I hear what you're saying. No, and well, and I

1082
01:01:14,920 --> 01:01:17,080
Speaker 1: lied about the final final. This is the final final

1083
01:01:17,160 --> 01:01:19,040
Speaker 1: because I want to pick what you just said is

1084
01:01:19,160 --> 01:01:22,600
Speaker 1: really important and looking for advice here because I'm a

1085
01:01:22,600 --> 01:01:26,520
Speaker 1: practitioner in this respect as governor of this state. I mean,

1086
01:01:26,960 --> 01:01:28,880
Speaker 1: you know, every day my state of mind is want

1087
01:01:28,880 --> 01:01:31,200
Speaker 1: to sort of just overwhelm with all the incoming that

1088
01:01:31,680 --> 01:01:37,400
Speaker 1: the missives, the messages, the letters, the threats from members

1089
01:01:37,440 --> 01:01:43,360
Speaker 1: of his cabinet, agency directors, lawyers, constant back and forth

1090
01:01:43,400 --> 01:01:46,880
Speaker 1: as it relates to sort of this deconstructive state mindset

1091
01:01:46,960 --> 01:01:51,320
Speaker 1: that Trump has in what twenty twenty five represents. You know,

1092
01:01:51,440 --> 01:01:54,120
Speaker 1: from our perspective, it's difficult. You know, what do you

1093
01:01:54,160 --> 01:01:56,840
Speaker 1: what do you chase? Do you do you react to

1094
01:01:56,880 --> 01:02:00,800
Speaker 1: every little indiscretion? Or do you wait for the big things?

1095
01:02:01,160 --> 01:02:01,360
Speaker 2: You know?

1096
01:02:01,680 --> 01:02:05,240
Speaker 1: Is it a carville a notion? Just stand back and

1097
01:02:05,360 --> 01:02:07,840
Speaker 1: watch him and plode, watch what's happened in the markets.

1098
01:02:08,080 --> 01:02:10,920
Speaker 1: This is a proof point of Carville strategy. One carvill

1099
01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:12,680
Speaker 1: may argue, I don't know. I mean, what do you

1100
01:02:12,720 --> 01:02:14,120
Speaker 1: what do you do? Or do you do you flood

1101
01:02:14,120 --> 01:02:17,120
Speaker 1: his own back? Are you constantly in everybody's face and

1102
01:02:17,200 --> 01:02:20,080
Speaker 1: do what Charlie Kirk's doing every single day? I mean, what,

1103
01:02:20,080 --> 01:02:21,680
Speaker 1: what's where are you in calibras?

1104
01:02:22,080 --> 01:02:26,080
Speaker 2: I believe in the big story, Governor Newsom. I believe

1105
01:02:26,080 --> 01:02:30,320
Speaker 2: in the narrative. Okay, if you study Lincoln, you study

1106
01:02:30,400 --> 01:02:34,240
Speaker 2: Jack Kennedy, you study the Roosevelt Revolution when he beat

1107
01:02:34,280 --> 01:02:38,880
Speaker 2: Herbert Hoover. I believe in the narrative. And so you're

1108
01:02:38,880 --> 01:02:42,040
Speaker 2: not gonna beat him being a pig like him. If

1109
01:02:42,080 --> 01:02:44,760
Speaker 2: you call his hands little like Marco Rubio, you end

1110
01:02:44,800 --> 01:02:47,120
Speaker 2: up as like one of his knaves. Right, So you're

1111
01:02:47,120 --> 01:02:49,040
Speaker 2: not gonna You're not you know, like the farmer said

1112
01:02:49,080 --> 01:02:51,360
Speaker 2: about the pig, You're not a pig. The pig likes

1113
01:02:51,360 --> 01:02:53,680
Speaker 2: getting in the mud. Don't get in the mud with

1114
01:02:53,680 --> 01:02:56,680
Speaker 2: the pig. I don't believe in that. You have a

1115
01:02:56,840 --> 01:03:01,320
Speaker 2: super narrative. Okay, you can point out to people what

1116
01:03:01,360 --> 01:03:05,240
Speaker 2: they're trying to do to you, the the bureaucratic terrorism

1117
01:03:05,320 --> 01:03:08,000
Speaker 2: that they're trying to do to you with the federal

1118
01:03:08,040 --> 01:03:11,440
Speaker 2: government exerting power over you. You can do that, but it's

1119
01:03:11,480 --> 01:03:14,240
Speaker 2: subt it got to do it subtly. The big narrative

1120
01:03:14,280 --> 01:03:18,640
Speaker 2: has to be who are we as Americans? When you

1121
01:03:18,720 --> 01:03:21,040
Speaker 2: look in the mirror, do you see in America that's

1122
01:03:21,040 --> 01:03:24,800
Speaker 2: aggrieved and victimized? Or do you see in America in ascendency?

1123
01:03:25,400 --> 01:03:29,440
Speaker 2: We represent the Americans that are in ascendency. We are

1124
01:03:29,480 --> 01:03:33,160
Speaker 2: the side for good. We are the benevolent people. We're

1125
01:03:33,200 --> 01:03:37,080
Speaker 2: not locking the gate to the swimming pool to charge admission.

1126
01:03:37,360 --> 01:03:39,320
Speaker 2: We're going to teach other people how to build their

1127
01:03:39,320 --> 01:03:44,120
Speaker 2: own swimming pools. Okay, and we've made some mistakes. You know,

1128
01:03:44,240 --> 01:03:46,800
Speaker 2: maybe you've got to have less regulations so Bill can

1129
01:03:46,800 --> 01:03:49,440
Speaker 2: get his roof done. I'm not saying that the Democrats

1130
01:03:49,440 --> 01:03:53,320
Speaker 2: are perfect. They made some mistakes. You're working on reform

1131
01:03:53,400 --> 01:03:58,040
Speaker 2: to correct those mistakes. But mistakes that you've made have

1132
01:03:58,120 --> 01:04:01,600
Speaker 2: been from inclusivity. The mistakes that you've made, whether it's

1133
01:04:01,640 --> 01:04:04,960
Speaker 2: bail reform or things like that, have been mistakes related

1134
01:04:05,000 --> 01:04:09,160
Speaker 2: to frailty of human beings and our humanity. And so

1135
01:04:09,280 --> 01:04:13,240
Speaker 2: I wouldn't focus on Charlie Kirk's rat tat tat, flood

1136
01:04:13,240 --> 01:04:16,120
Speaker 2: the Zone or Steve Bannon stuff, because that's already old news.

1137
01:04:16,840 --> 01:04:20,360
Speaker 2: The new new news is what is the narrative, What

1138
01:04:20,520 --> 01:04:25,360
Speaker 2: is the compelling democratic narrative which allows Americans to look

1139
01:04:25,360 --> 01:04:30,040
Speaker 2: in the mira and say that's me. I'm strong, I'm aspirational,

1140
01:04:30,400 --> 01:04:34,600
Speaker 2: I'm kind, I'm benevolent, and I'm going to work alongside

1141
01:04:34,600 --> 01:04:38,640
Speaker 2: of my fellow Americans to put down the internescent warfare

1142
01:04:38,680 --> 01:04:43,080
Speaker 2: and the internescent tribal warfare. These guys want the tribal warfare,

1143
01:04:43,560 --> 01:04:46,760
Speaker 2: but the average American does not, And they're beating you

1144
01:04:46,880 --> 01:04:49,760
Speaker 2: on the tribal warfare and in the culture war. But

1145
01:04:49,840 --> 01:04:53,000
Speaker 2: you can flip the table on them by going in

1146
01:04:53,000 --> 01:04:54,960
Speaker 2: the direction that I'm describing.

1147
01:04:55,680 --> 01:04:58,040
Speaker 1: A great way to Anne Anthony. Thank you for the conversation,

1148
01:04:58,160 --> 01:04:59,480
Speaker 1: thank you for your insight, thank.

1149
01:04:59,360 --> 01:05:02,280
Speaker 2: You for it's it's a huge honor to be on

1150
01:05:02,400 --> 01:05:05,080
Speaker 2: with you, okay and me. And by the way, you

1151
01:05:05,120 --> 01:05:08,040
Speaker 2: got it. The hair, I mean hair is an asset

1152
01:05:08,080 --> 01:05:09,640
Speaker 2: for you. Okay, you got to you got to use

1153
01:05:09,680 --> 01:05:12,880
Speaker 2: the hair more man. Okay, it's the hair more Yeah,

1154
01:05:12,880 --> 01:05:17,960
Speaker 2: I mean California asset. You know.

1155
01:05:18,440 --> 01:05:19,520
Speaker 1: Jesus, here we go.

1156
01:05:19,720 --> 01:05:20,200
Speaker 2: Very cute.

1157
01:05:20,200 --> 01:05:23,160
Speaker 1: What a way to add buddy, Hey, pleasure, thanks for

1158
01:05:23,200 --> 01:05:25,200
Speaker 1: taking the time. I really appreciate it. By the way,

1159
01:05:25,360 --> 01:05:27,960
Speaker 1: thank you for being so good to staff. That's a man.

1160
01:05:28,040 --> 01:05:31,800
Speaker 1: That's your character, the way you treated everyone around me.

1161
01:05:31,960 --> 01:05:34,040
Speaker 1: They said, this guy is a gentleman. So I just

1162
01:05:34,080 --> 01:05:34,800
Speaker 1: want folks to know that.

1163
01:05:34,880 --> 01:05:37,800
Speaker 2: And I appreciate because my grandmother was a maid Governor Newsom,

1164
01:05:37,880 --> 01:05:40,120
Speaker 2: so trust me, it's very important to me that I

1165
01:05:40,120 --> 01:05:43,200
Speaker 2: treat everybody with great kindness because you know, and by

1166
01:05:43,200 --> 01:05:45,160
Speaker 2: the way, that is a non starter at Skybridge, and

1167
01:05:45,200 --> 01:05:47,760
Speaker 2: people are mean to people that are beneath them. It's

1168
01:05:47,800 --> 01:05:51,360
Speaker 2: literally like an evacuation, you know, God bless but thank

1169
01:05:51,400 --> 01:05:54,200
Speaker 2: you for that. And uh it not to be so,

1170
01:05:54,920 --> 01:05:56,960
Speaker 2: you know, if it's not an imposition. I would love

1171
01:05:56,960 --> 01:05:58,720
Speaker 2: to do this again in person. I think it'd be

1172
01:05:59,120 --> 01:06:01,560
Speaker 2: a lot more fun. That would be a lot of fun.

1173
01:06:01,680 --> 01:06:03,880
Speaker 2: Let's make that happen, all right, all the best of you,

1174
01:06:04,360 --> 01:06:05,240
Speaker 2: Thank you to see you