WEBVTT - Casablanca Review | Archive 0:00:21.244 --> 0:00:24.605 Film Spotting is presented by Regal Unlimited, the all you 0:00:24.645 --> 0:00:27.605 can watch movie subscription pass that pays for itself in 0:00:27.685 --> 0:00:31.365 just two visits. See any standard two D movie anytime 0:00:31.725 --> 0:00:34.845 with no blackoutdates or restrictions. Sign up now on the 0:00:34.885 --> 0:00:37.324 Regal app or at the link in our description and 0:00:37.445 --> 0:00:41.685 use code film spot twenty six to receive fifteen percent off. 0:00:42.525 --> 0:00:47.364 It is another Film Spotting Archive drop, and with Valentine's 0:00:47.445 --> 0:00:50.565 Day just upon us here, Josh, we thought, why not 0:00:50.805 --> 0:00:56.125 check out some of the most romantic films that we've 0:00:56.125 --> 0:00:59.645 talked about in the Film Spotting Archive. Fair number of 0:00:59.885 --> 0:01:03.005 good ones to talk about, but then producer Sam had 0:01:03.125 --> 0:01:05.045 a good idea, put a little twist on it. What 0:01:05.125 --> 0:01:09.405 about the ones that have all been Best Picture winners 0:01:10.045 --> 0:01:13.964 leading up to the Oscars? So we thought, okay, let's 0:01:14.005 --> 0:01:17.085 go back. Let's go back, maybe to the most romantic 0:01:17.125 --> 0:01:19.405 of them all. Casablanca. 0:01:19.804 --> 0:01:24.485 Not a bad choice Casablanca. This is from March twenty seventeen. 0:01:24.645 --> 0:01:27.404 I missed out on this review, Adam. It was you, 0:01:27.604 --> 0:01:31.484 Michael Phillips, film prof Catherine Fusco. 0:01:31.845 --> 0:01:34.444 So he got academic on you. 0:01:35.045 --> 0:01:38.524 Yeah, just kind of making making me feel left out. 0:01:38.524 --> 0:01:41.725 Casablanca also in my mind though, because we are on 0:01:41.765 --> 0:01:46.524 this Friday show going to be nominating our candidates for 0:01:46.604 --> 0:01:49.565 the Film Spotting Pantheon for twenty twenty six, and Casablanca 0:01:49.605 --> 0:01:49.925 was in the. 0:01:49.845 --> 0:01:50.285 Mix for me. 0:01:50.365 --> 0:01:53.205 We'll see, we'll see if it made it. Listeners will 0:01:53.205 --> 0:01:55.325 find out when they listened to the show if it 0:01:55.485 --> 0:01:58.605 was one of those that I put in the mix. 0:01:58.685 --> 0:02:03.325 But definitely deserves consideration for the Pantheon, and obviously for 0:02:03.445 --> 0:02:06.285 this twenty seventeen review as well. 0:02:06.405 --> 0:02:10.565 And not to make everyone's brain short circuit, but if 0:02:10.565 --> 0:02:13.085 it did make your list, Josh, they'd have to listen 0:02:13.125 --> 0:02:15.525 to find out whether or not it was a sacred 0:02:15.565 --> 0:02:18.845 cow title because obviously it got a sacred cow discussion, 0:02:19.525 --> 0:02:22.685 or whether it was a wild card because you didn't 0:02:22.725 --> 0:02:25.165 talk about it with me and the whole exactly this 0:02:25.285 --> 0:02:29.445 Pantheon project exactly, we talk about the movies together. So 0:02:29.565 --> 0:02:31.325 Casablanca is a really tricky one. 0:02:31.725 --> 0:02:34.044 I may have found a loophole. We'll have to wait 0:02:34.605 --> 0:02:38.125 until Friday to see. But for now, for now, from 0:02:38.125 --> 0:02:41.484 March twenty seventeen, here is that review of Casablanca. 0:02:41.725 --> 0:02:43.364 Well, you are asking about Rick, and. 0:02:43.325 --> 0:02:43.764 Here he is. 0:02:43.764 --> 0:02:48.285 Mademoiselle Mary present Illo reck, Oh you've already met. 0:02:48.285 --> 0:02:48.964 Rick pant Brazil. 0:02:49.725 --> 0:02:52.925 Well, then perhaps you won't serve christ Lasla. How do 0:02:52.924 --> 0:02:54.885 you do? How do you do? When he has a 0:02:54.885 --> 0:02:59.165 great deal about Ricky and Casablanca, not about Victor Lazlow everywhere. 0:02:58.764 --> 0:03:01.565 So anticipating the show we're going to do right now, Adam, 0:03:01.605 --> 0:03:04.485 about Casablanca and whether or not it's still the movie 0:03:04.685 --> 0:03:06.445 that it used to be for a lot of people. 0:03:06.484 --> 0:03:07.845 Maybe still is for an awful lot of it. 0:03:08.085 --> 0:03:11.405 Last week, the Society for Cinema and Media Studies gathered 0:03:11.445 --> 0:03:14.245 in Chicago for its annual conference. And that is one 0:03:14.245 --> 0:03:15.845 hell of a lot of movie geeks in one town 0:03:15.885 --> 0:03:18.565 at one time. Let me tell you, hundreds of scholars, academics, 0:03:18.565 --> 0:03:21.325 specialists of all kinds. They gather, They give talks every 0:03:21.365 --> 0:03:24.005 imaginable subject, and I caught a couple of them last week. 0:03:24.005 --> 0:03:27.445 One of them was called Complex Figures in Classic Hollywood, 0:03:27.644 --> 0:03:30.165 and it featured a film and literature professor from the 0:03:30.245 --> 0:03:34.005 University of Nevada Reno named Katherine Fusco. Well, Fusco gives 0:03:34.005 --> 0:03:38.565 this great twenty minute talk on Shirley Temple's profoundly disturbing 0:03:38.605 --> 0:03:42.005 early movie career in what we're known as baby burlesques. 0:03:42.085 --> 0:03:45.205 These sort of precursors to Bugsy Malone, right, and this 0:03:45.405 --> 0:03:48.964 creepy and very kind of like bizarre sexual undercurrents, sort 0:03:48.965 --> 0:03:52.245 of astonishing stuff. Anybody with an interest in old Hollywood, 0:03:52.405 --> 0:03:54.765 who can give you twenty new things in the space 0:03:54.805 --> 0:03:57.725 of twenty minutes to think about? Regarding Shirley Temple subject 0:03:57.765 --> 0:04:00.845 I know nothing about. Okay with me, So Adam and 0:04:00.885 --> 0:04:03.725 I are happy to have Catherine Fusco join us from 0:04:03.765 --> 0:04:07.005 Reno to talk about this question, this monument, this movie 0:04:07.005 --> 0:04:08.445 known as Casablanca. 0:04:08.565 --> 0:04:09.805 Catherine, thanks for being on. 0:04:09.845 --> 0:04:11.165 Sure, I'm really happy to be here. 0:04:11.205 --> 0:04:13.285 Hi film spotting, Hello, Thank you, Catherine. 0:04:13.365 --> 0:04:16.365 Okay, So Casablanca turned seventy five this year, and it's 0:04:16.405 --> 0:04:19.805 either ageless or it's very much showing its age, depending 0:04:19.885 --> 0:04:23.205 on which pundit or film critic or cultural observer you're 0:04:23.245 --> 0:04:25.805 reading at the time. The Warner Brothers movie premiered in 0:04:25.885 --> 0:04:28.485 late nineteen forty two, but went into general release early 0:04:28.565 --> 0:04:32.365 nineteen forty three, and with the Allies invading North Africa, 0:04:32.445 --> 0:04:34.925 the movie felt like the morning news right up there 0:04:34.925 --> 0:04:38.085 on the screen. Humphrey Bogart is the idealistic but cynical 0:04:38.085 --> 0:04:42.604 American hiding out Morocco goes from attractive isolationist. I stick 0:04:42.645 --> 0:04:44.565 my neck out for nobody, he says twice in the 0:04:44.565 --> 0:04:48.245 first twenty minutes, to committed patriotic man of action. His 0:04:48.325 --> 0:04:51.045 love for Ingrid Bergmann, who's hooked up with the resistance 0:04:51.085 --> 0:04:54.605 war hero played by Paul Henried, is sacrificed. 0:04:53.964 --> 0:04:54.885 For the greater good. 0:04:55.284 --> 0:04:57.845 This movie won the Oscar for Best Picture, and it 0:04:57.925 --> 0:05:01.325 is a lot of people's favorite Hollywood movie. Woody Allen 0:05:01.365 --> 0:05:03.125 wrote a play and later a movie called Play It 0:05:03.125 --> 0:05:07.685 Against Sam about a guy hopelessly measuring himself against Bogie's image. 0:05:07.844 --> 0:05:11.085 I mean, you look at Jean Lucadar's Breathless that's entirely 0:05:11.085 --> 0:05:12.285 devoted to Bogie. 0:05:12.485 --> 0:05:13.645 You got you know what. 0:05:13.645 --> 0:05:17.365 It's one of the most revered and satirized romantic dramas 0:05:17.365 --> 0:05:20.724 in cinema history. Several books have been written about Casablanca's 0:05:20.725 --> 0:05:24.125 place in the culture, and most recently that includes Noah 0:05:24.165 --> 0:05:28.125 Eisenberg's Will Always Have Casablanca. And Yet and Yet a 0:05:28.165 --> 0:05:31.205 lot of people think it's basically no longer ready for 0:05:31.365 --> 0:05:34.044 its close up. In a recent Slate piece on the 0:05:34.045 --> 0:05:37.085 book and the film, Laura Miller notes that Sight and 0:05:37.125 --> 0:05:40.005 Sound magazine did a twenty thirteen poll of the fifty 0:05:40.045 --> 0:05:43.244 greatest films of all time, Casablanca, directed by Michael Curtese, 0:05:43.404 --> 0:05:45.844 did not make the cut, and she says this, what's 0:05:45.964 --> 0:05:50.724 changed about Casablanca is the most powerful and intangible element 0:05:51.325 --> 0:05:54.164 in any work of popular culture, its ability to make 0:05:54.245 --> 0:05:57.445 each audience member feel this is about me, about who 0:05:57.565 --> 0:06:00.005 I am, but most of all, who I want to be. 0:06:00.205 --> 0:06:03.405 And she says this to America still underestimates the degree 0:06:03.404 --> 0:06:06.765 to which the Second World War casts a long shadow 0:06:06.805 --> 0:06:09.484 over the last half of the twentieth century. That shadow 0:06:09.844 --> 0:06:13.645 has mostly subsided, and the radiant dreams that consoled us 0:06:13.725 --> 0:06:17.364 as we walked through, while still worth revisiting, now seem 0:06:17.565 --> 0:06:23.284 less captivating and necessary. Adam, Catherine will start with you, Catherine, 0:06:23.365 --> 0:06:24.844 Will we always have Casablanca? 0:06:25.005 --> 0:06:25.885 Or is it sort of. 0:06:25.805 --> 0:06:28.605 Getting lost in the mists of time, the same mist 0:06:28.805 --> 0:06:31.445 we see Bogart and Claude Rain strolling through in the 0:06:31.525 --> 0:06:34.085 last few seconds of the film itself. 0:06:34.964 --> 0:06:38.604 That's question. Yeah, we just have twenty seconds. We just 0:06:38.645 --> 0:06:40.205 have twenty seconds for it. 0:06:40.525 --> 0:06:46.125 Shoot, you know, I was watching the film again yesterday 0:06:46.165 --> 0:06:48.685 to prepare and I actually got a little nervous about 0:06:48.725 --> 0:06:50.044 me on the podcast, and I thought, oh, well, maybe 0:06:50.045 --> 0:06:52.765 I should just watch every kind of great classic film. 0:06:52.805 --> 0:06:56.565 So I rewatched Citizen Kane the day before, and you know, 0:06:56.605 --> 0:06:59.484 I was thinking about that, you know, Cain as great, 0:06:59.765 --> 0:07:05.404 Casablanca as beloved kind of thing, and for me, I 0:07:05.445 --> 0:07:09.085 feel like Casablanca is this sort of gateway drug, but 0:07:09.165 --> 0:07:12.485 it's such a wonderful gateway drug, right to kind of 0:07:12.565 --> 0:07:15.765 get get people in. So you know, I'm all about 0:07:15.765 --> 0:07:19.605 the gateway drug here, you know, whether it's not maybe 0:07:19.605 --> 0:07:24.045 as heady as Citizen Kane, right, it really just gives 0:07:24.045 --> 0:07:27.485 you that kind of gut punch. But I was also 0:07:27.565 --> 0:07:31.725 thinking about those sort of relevance now in the Laura 0:07:31.725 --> 0:07:36.445 Miller article, right, she's talking about how young men identified 0:07:36.445 --> 0:07:39.845 with this kind of cynic and less so with the 0:07:39.885 --> 0:07:43.725 more sincere rick that we get by the end. And 0:07:43.765 --> 0:07:46.005 I was just thinking, man, you know, we could use 0:07:46.045 --> 0:07:49.605 a little sincerity and self sacrifice now. Right, we're sort 0:07:49.645 --> 0:07:52.564 of in this moment of you know, the hot take 0:07:52.645 --> 0:07:56.125 where you kind of take the position that nobody else 0:07:56.205 --> 0:07:58.605 is taking and your cynical and you kind of have 0:07:58.765 --> 0:08:01.325 your kind of anti hero perspective and I feel like 0:08:01.365 --> 0:08:03.565 we're kind of moving past that a little bit now. 0:08:03.645 --> 0:08:07.165 I think, I don't know if it's a post election 0:08:07.365 --> 0:08:09.685 moment or you know, we're kind of worn out on 0:08:09.805 --> 0:08:13.445 Tony Soprano or what. But I don't know, it feels 0:08:13.485 --> 0:08:14.725 fresh to me still. 0:08:14.765 --> 0:08:16.885 Did you see this film at a young age, Catherine? 0:08:17.045 --> 0:08:20.045 You know, I saw it in college, and so I 0:08:20.085 --> 0:08:23.405 was thinking also about the sort of long shadow of 0:08:23.445 --> 0:08:29.365 World War Two part of this retrospective essay. And I 0:08:29.405 --> 0:08:32.365 saw it the year before September eleventh, So I you know, 0:08:32.405 --> 0:08:35.805 I was a nineties teen and I grew up with 0:08:35.965 --> 0:08:40.045 a lot of the kind of flashy indie directors, right, 0:08:40.085 --> 0:08:43.085 So that was my initial film education as a teenagers. 0:08:43.125 --> 0:08:46.245 I was watching you know, Kevin Smith and Tarantino, and 0:08:46.645 --> 0:08:49.205 you know, that's what all of my really film educated 0:08:49.245 --> 0:08:52.485 friends were into. And then I had a friend in 0:08:52.965 --> 0:08:55.965 college who was into classical film and we watched this 0:08:56.045 --> 0:08:59.085 film together and I just felt like, oh man, there's 0:08:59.165 --> 0:09:04.685 this whole other world of film, you know, that's cool 0:09:05.005 --> 0:09:07.724 and affecting, right, And I think that's that's again this. 0:09:08.245 --> 0:09:12.045 I really appreciate the non cynical kind of nature of 0:09:12.045 --> 0:09:15.165 the film, right that I guess you know after watching right, 0:09:15.325 --> 0:09:17.885 I remember having the flu at some point in college 0:09:17.885 --> 0:09:20.444 and watching Natural Born Killers. Right, this is sort of 0:09:20.485 --> 0:09:22.964 the this and it just felt really. 0:09:22.885 --> 0:09:24.525 I would get I would get the flu from that 0:09:24.605 --> 0:09:25.925 movie right, all over movies. 0:09:26.005 --> 0:09:28.845 Yeah, so you know it was it was kind of 0:09:29.045 --> 0:09:31.285 it blew our minds really to watch this movie and 0:09:31.325 --> 0:09:33.684 all of those famous lines that you know are in 0:09:33.725 --> 0:09:36.805 the culture, but as someone who grew up being able 0:09:36.804 --> 0:09:39.325 to rent videos and not having to rely on you 0:09:39.365 --> 0:09:42.245 know what was playing on TV, having access to these 0:09:42.245 --> 0:09:44.405 lines and sort of getting hit bam bam bam. Oh 0:09:44.445 --> 0:09:46.445 that's from this film too. That's from this film too. 0:09:46.725 --> 0:09:49.965 That's from this film too. I just sort of felt 0:09:50.005 --> 0:09:52.085 like something cracked open seeing this. 0:09:52.285 --> 0:09:53.325 So, yeah, what. 0:09:53.205 --> 0:09:55.485 About you, Adam, how early on did you bump into it? 0:09:55.564 --> 0:09:55.765 Yeah? 0:09:55.765 --> 0:09:57.805 This is a perfect and why are you and why 0:09:57.804 --> 0:09:59.165 are you wearing a fedora right now? 0:09:59.725 --> 0:10:01.725 You know I like to come in character. Okay. 0:10:02.765 --> 0:10:05.525 I saw this for the first time, not until I 0:10:05.564 --> 0:10:07.324 was in college, when I was in film school, so 0:10:07.485 --> 0:10:09.525 it would have been actually the late nineties when I 0:10:09.564 --> 0:10:12.005 saw this movie for the first time. And this really 0:10:12.045 --> 0:10:14.405 is the ideal sort of scenario for one of these 0:10:14.445 --> 0:10:18.085 reviews because watching it again just last night, actually I 0:10:18.125 --> 0:10:20.685 realized I don't think I had seen it in the 0:10:20.684 --> 0:10:23.084 interro at all. Somehow I had never had an opportunity 0:10:23.085 --> 0:10:25.085 to see it. So I really am revisiting a film 0:10:25.405 --> 0:10:28.525 that is regarded as a classic and that I saw 0:10:28.725 --> 0:10:32.365 originally many years ago and loved. And it felt almost 0:10:32.405 --> 0:10:34.285 like I was watching it for the first time. And 0:10:34.005 --> 0:10:37.165 that's what we're usually going for here. And it's funny. 0:10:37.165 --> 0:10:40.084 I picked out the exact same two paragraphs from the 0:10:40.165 --> 0:10:42.645 Laura Miller Slight article as you did, Michael, the one 0:10:42.925 --> 0:10:47.684 about movies in a movie like this making you think 0:10:47.765 --> 0:10:49.565 most of all of who you want to be, and 0:10:49.605 --> 0:10:54.085 then her concluding statement where she says essentially that that 0:10:54.245 --> 0:10:55.925 is no longer the case of this movie. It maybe 0:10:55.925 --> 0:10:57.964 no longer has that power, and she says it's still 0:10:58.005 --> 0:11:01.205 worth revisiting, but less captivating and necessary. Watching it again 0:11:01.325 --> 0:11:04.564 last night, for me, I found it still as captivating 0:11:04.564 --> 0:11:06.605 as I did twenty years ago. I found it even 0:11:06.684 --> 0:11:10.605 more necessary, actually, but we can get into that later. 0:11:11.045 --> 0:11:15.045 The other aspect of that, the first part talking about 0:11:15.085 --> 0:11:17.125 every audience member feeling like this is about me or 0:11:17.125 --> 0:11:20.005 someone who I aspire to be. I made my kids 0:11:20.045 --> 0:11:22.845 watch this with me oldest, so my son Holden just 0:11:22.845 --> 0:11:26.285 turned fifteen, and my daughter Sophie's about to be thirteen. 0:11:26.605 --> 0:11:31.445 Sophie was mostly kind of lost by all the maneuvering 0:11:31.485 --> 0:11:32.564 of the plot. 0:11:32.285 --> 0:11:33.645 Right the film, the political stuff. 0:11:33.765 --> 0:11:38.565 Yes, but my son Holden is this huge international diplomacy nerd. 0:11:38.845 --> 0:11:41.564 Those are the kind of games he plays computer games, 0:11:41.564 --> 0:11:42.925 and otherwise was saying. 0:11:42.725 --> 0:11:44.605 Things like, oh, yes, the cost of block of conference 0:11:44.645 --> 0:11:45.685 was right there around that time. 0:11:45.765 --> 0:11:49.325 Yes, he was actually Michael, and he's huge into geography, 0:11:49.325 --> 0:11:52.084 World War two in general. He's certainly not a connoisseur 0:11:52.165 --> 0:11:55.684 of classic cinema. He loved this movie, and I was 0:11:55.725 --> 0:11:57.285 sitting right next to him on the couch and I 0:11:57.365 --> 0:11:59.885 was listening to him audibly react to all these great 0:11:59.925 --> 0:12:02.085 moments and lines, lines that he, for the most part, 0:12:02.125 --> 0:12:04.525 was hearing for the first time. And at the end 0:12:04.564 --> 0:12:06.565 of it, he just said, everybody in that movie was 0:12:06.605 --> 0:12:07.204 so awesome. 0:12:07.605 --> 0:12:09.245 Oh. I knew exactly what he. 0:12:09.205 --> 0:12:13.205 Meant, because that comment Laura Miller had about a lot 0:12:13.245 --> 0:12:16.165 of adolescent boys maybe taking immediately to Bogee and his 0:12:16.245 --> 0:12:19.645 gruffness and his toughness and how unflappable he seems at 0:12:19.684 --> 0:12:23.765 all times except when he's around Ingrid Bergmann's ilsa. You know, 0:12:24.245 --> 0:12:27.324 that's something I think my son probably does sort of 0:12:27.325 --> 0:12:28.885 wish he had a little bit more in him, just 0:12:28.925 --> 0:12:31.285 as I do actually for that matter. And at the 0:12:31.325 --> 0:12:34.165 same time he's this selfish rogue. He's charming, of course, 0:12:34.205 --> 0:12:36.525 and he's funny, and he's in control, and at his 0:12:36.645 --> 0:12:39.725 core he's this idealist. And so I know that Holden 0:12:39.804 --> 0:12:43.765 was reacting to this figure that he admired in some way. 0:12:43.885 --> 0:12:45.845 But it wasn't just him. It was Claude Rains, it 0:12:45.845 --> 0:12:48.125 was Peter Lourie, it was Paul Henried, it was Sidney 0:12:48.165 --> 0:12:51.564 green Street. He was responding to the performances, of course. 0:12:52.045 --> 0:12:55.045 And a moment I'll single out that I know work 0:12:55.085 --> 0:12:57.765 for both of us is when we see Renault's devilish 0:12:57.765 --> 0:13:01.285 little grin when he sees the Germans starting to sing 0:13:01.285 --> 0:13:02.245 about the Fatherland. 0:13:02.485 --> 0:13:04.565 It's just like these fricking guys, you know. And I 0:13:04.645 --> 0:13:06.804 just love that we get those those kind of reactions. 0:13:06.804 --> 0:13:09.525 We get so many moments like that, wonderful faces throughout 0:13:09.525 --> 0:13:14.165 this whole film. But he really was invested in not 0:13:14.245 --> 0:13:16.725 just the plot, but just these characters and those lines 0:13:16.725 --> 0:13:19.365 of dialogue. And yes, he did discover that in one 0:13:19.405 --> 0:13:21.645 of his games, there's a badge or something that's called 0:13:21.645 --> 0:13:24.804 the here's looking at you kid badge. Never understood it, well, 0:13:24.885 --> 0:13:27.765 guess what. It's something you get when you go from 0:13:28.005 --> 0:13:31.885 like Portugal to Casablanca or vice versa. So that clicked 0:13:31.885 --> 0:13:34.205 for him and it felt it felt relevant to him, 0:13:34.365 --> 0:13:36.405 that's for sure, but it felt even more relevant to 0:13:36.405 --> 0:13:39.804 me for some of the political reasons that you touched on, Catherine. 0:13:39.845 --> 0:13:41.045 I think we can get into that a little bit. 0:13:41.125 --> 0:13:41.325 Yeah. 0:13:41.325 --> 0:13:43.005 I think the thing that I think is a little 0:13:43.125 --> 0:13:46.645 nutty about the Laura Miller piece and Slade is this 0:13:46.725 --> 0:13:51.204 idea that it's not, you know, an admirable architect. There's 0:13:51.245 --> 0:13:53.005 nobody to kind of look up to and aspire to. 0:13:53.085 --> 0:13:55.005 And I think especially I can only speak as a 0:13:55.045 --> 0:13:59.565 high school age you know, male in Racine, Wisconsin is 0:13:59.765 --> 0:14:01.205 probably see him for the first time when I was 0:14:01.205 --> 0:14:03.245 I don't know, fourteen or fifteen, probably on TV and 0:14:03.245 --> 0:14:06.045 then I saw early date. For me, you know, I 0:14:06.085 --> 0:14:09.045 took my high school girlfriend, Sheila Hogan up to Milwaukee 0:14:09.085 --> 0:14:11.405 to see, you know, a revival screening. This is like 0:14:11.405 --> 0:14:14.444 in seventy eight seventy nine, and I mean, think of that, 0:14:14.445 --> 0:14:16.645 that's forty It's almost forty years ago when the film 0:14:16.725 --> 0:14:18.885 was turning seventy five. So you know, it means it 0:14:19.045 --> 0:14:21.445 just lived in the culture for me in a way 0:14:21.445 --> 0:14:24.805 that it does not for even people who adore it, 0:14:24.805 --> 0:14:27.085 who are you know, ten twenty twenty five years younger 0:14:27.125 --> 0:14:27.325 than me. 0:14:27.605 --> 0:14:29.845 It's it's it's just not the same. 0:14:30.565 --> 0:14:32.445 I was wondering about that though. I was looking this 0:14:32.565 --> 0:14:37.405 time at the moment we first see Bogart and we 0:14:37.485 --> 0:14:41.605 see first a cigarette, right, and a cocktail, and then 0:14:41.925 --> 0:14:45.445 we see his face, and you know, I've been sort 0:14:45.445 --> 0:14:47.765 of struggling with that last moment of the essay we're 0:14:47.765 --> 0:14:50.365 talking about where she says that this is less captivating 0:14:50.365 --> 0:14:51.885 and necessary, and I was just thinking, well, you know 0:14:51.925 --> 0:14:54.445 what about Don Draper. Weren't there all these little kind 0:14:54.485 --> 0:14:57.485 of wanna be Don Draper's running around because people are 0:14:57.485 --> 0:14:59.805 really into the fact there's the smoking and the cocktail 0:14:59.845 --> 0:15:02.405 culture and all this stuff, and you know, it's there's 0:15:02.445 --> 0:15:08.165 still that kind of I guess hipness, but you know 0:15:08.245 --> 0:15:11.045 it's much less shallow in some ways. Right, this is 0:15:11.045 --> 0:15:14.845 a character I don't know who who sort of has 0:15:15.445 --> 0:15:18.685 this history of goodness and the sacrifice that he gets into. Right, 0:15:18.685 --> 0:15:21.245 so we get the kind of style and surface here. 0:15:21.685 --> 0:15:24.605 I think that it still does feel, you know, pretty 0:15:24.885 --> 0:15:26.445 you know, he seems pretty cool to me. 0:15:26.685 --> 0:15:28.565 Yeah, yeah, I think I think there's a couple of 0:15:28.565 --> 0:15:30.845 things that have been, you know, the best one of 0:15:30.845 --> 0:15:32.525 the best things in that Laura Miller essay. And I 0:15:32.565 --> 0:15:34.165 don't want to talk about that too much, but but 0:15:34.485 --> 0:15:37.965 is she I think she rightly so really dings. Woody 0:15:38.045 --> 0:15:41.605 Allen's play and movie played against Sam Hard for including 0:15:41.645 --> 0:15:43.565 a line like I never saw a dame that didn't 0:15:43.885 --> 0:15:45.765 understand a good slap in the mouth or a slug 0:15:45.805 --> 0:15:48.685 from a forty five. That's what the imaginary Bogie says 0:15:48.725 --> 0:15:50.645 in that play. You know, Bulgart never would have said 0:15:50.685 --> 0:15:54.485 a goddamn thing like that. I mean, that's a mini Ricky, right. 0:15:54.565 --> 0:15:57.565 Anybody Bogart ever played that is not that line. Is 0:15:57.565 --> 0:16:00.285 Mickey Spillane or Mike Hammer. It has not got anything 0:16:00.485 --> 0:16:02.885 with Bogie or or Cozublanca. 0:16:02.925 --> 0:16:03.445 It just isn't. 0:16:03.605 --> 0:16:06.205 And one of the things, if anything, you can kind 0:16:06.205 --> 0:16:09.685 of look at Casablanca and say that the guy you 0:16:09.725 --> 0:16:12.725 can argue that the rick is really mired and self 0:16:12.765 --> 0:16:15.165 pity and and you know, heartbreak. 0:16:14.805 --> 0:16:15.925 And that's. 0:16:17.005 --> 0:16:20.045 But to me, that's what makes makes this kind of 0:16:20.085 --> 0:16:22.885 glorious Hollywood schlock a little bit human. I mean, this 0:16:22.965 --> 0:16:26.285 is not this is I don't want to. I mean, 0:16:26.325 --> 0:16:29.765 it's a film I really love. At the same time, 0:16:29.805 --> 0:16:33.805 I understand completely why the Side and Sound Pole wouldn't 0:16:33.845 --> 0:16:35.725 make room for it in its top fifty. I don't 0:16:35.725 --> 0:16:38.205 think I would either. It's just not it's not the 0:16:38.285 --> 0:16:40.965 kind of classic that you look to for form, even 0:16:41.005 --> 0:16:45.445 though it's for what it is. It's extremely adroitly made, yes, 0:16:45.885 --> 0:16:48.725 and gorgeously cast, and and there's you know, there's a 0:16:48.765 --> 0:16:51.085 reason people go back to it, And a lot of 0:16:51.125 --> 0:16:52.885 it is the writing, which they were, My god, they 0:16:52.885 --> 0:16:54.845 were right. They were the story of how this thing 0:16:55.165 --> 0:16:58.525 barely got made, you know, rewriting every night and every 0:16:58.565 --> 0:17:01.085 morning and not even knowing who is going to end 0:17:01.165 --> 0:17:02.885 up with who by the end of it. You know, 0:17:02.965 --> 0:17:06.365 it gives it gives the movie kind of a peculiar tension, 0:17:06.445 --> 0:17:07.925 and I think you can feel it. It's kind of 0:17:07.965 --> 0:17:10.525 a it's kind of a meta thing going on, where 0:17:10.725 --> 0:17:12.725 you know, all these characters in Cosabonca don't know if 0:17:12.725 --> 0:17:14.605 they're getting out in the narrative. 0:17:14.645 --> 0:17:15.725 And yet and at the. 0:17:15.725 --> 0:17:19.125 Same time, the Epstein brothers and uh and and all 0:17:19.125 --> 0:17:21.325 the other all the other folks working on the movie. 0:17:21.845 --> 0:17:23.645 You know, they didn't really know where they were going 0:17:23.685 --> 0:17:25.965 with this adaptation of an unproduced play. 0:17:26.045 --> 0:17:28.885 You know, they just didn't know. But it's a movie 0:17:28.965 --> 0:17:31.645 that it's a kind of classic quote classic. 0:17:31.725 --> 0:17:35.205 You can show people that it's not an intimidating kind 0:17:35.205 --> 0:17:39.925 of you know, it's more about comforting content and rather 0:17:39.965 --> 0:17:42.645 than challenging form. And therefore, I think it's kind of 0:17:42.685 --> 0:17:45.205 the opposite of something like Citizen Kane, which is not 0:17:45.285 --> 0:17:47.485 trying to make you cry, is not trying. 0:17:47.245 --> 0:17:48.805 To move you in a conventional way. 0:17:49.445 --> 0:17:53.565 You might find Kane fascinating and moving and all kinds 0:17:53.605 --> 0:17:56.325 of things, but it's not I mean, they are completely 0:17:56.405 --> 0:17:57.925 different temperatures, these two things. 0:17:58.005 --> 0:18:01.725 Yes, Kurtis is definitely not trying to show his hand 0:18:01.845 --> 0:18:05.845 at work. And that said, Catherine, you mentioned the intro 0:18:06.085 --> 0:18:09.205 or introduction to Bogie here and Michael you talk about 0:18:09.565 --> 0:18:11.765 maybe this isn't a movie that is drawing a lot 0:18:11.765 --> 0:18:13.484 of attention to its form, but the craft of it 0:18:13.525 --> 0:18:16.565 in terms of how the screenplay and the visuals work together. 0:18:17.285 --> 0:18:18.605 I think this movie has one of the all time 0:18:18.725 --> 0:18:21.885 great setups and introductions to a character, because not only 0:18:22.165 --> 0:18:25.285 do we only see those parts of him first, but 0:18:25.605 --> 0:18:28.605 even before that happens, we see his name when the 0:18:28.645 --> 0:18:31.125 plane is flying in one of the first, one of 0:18:31.125 --> 0:18:34.165 the first shots, we see his name, and so immediately 0:18:34.205 --> 0:18:36.165 we're kind of wondering who is Rick and why is 0:18:36.205 --> 0:18:38.725 he being featured so prominently that early on? And then 0:18:39.085 --> 0:18:41.965 at least three or four times people talk about Rick 0:18:42.405 --> 0:18:44.925 before we even meet him, and there's all this talk 0:18:45.005 --> 0:18:48.005 about what once we do finally meet him, there's all 0:18:48.045 --> 0:18:49.765 this talk about what would impress him? 0:18:49.805 --> 0:18:50.885 Right UGARTI talks about. 0:18:52.485 --> 0:18:55.605 Yeah, So by the time we do meet him, we 0:18:55.645 --> 0:18:58.485 can't wait to finally see what this guy is all about. 0:18:58.685 --> 0:19:00.965 It's really heightened in that way. And then, as I said, 0:19:00.965 --> 0:19:03.765 when we do finally get to see him, he's someone 0:19:03.805 --> 0:19:06.885 who we know everyone else is in some way looking 0:19:06.965 --> 0:19:09.445 up to or trying to impress, and that makes us 0:19:09.485 --> 0:19:11.805 then revere him a little bit more even as a character. 0:19:11.885 --> 0:19:13.445 I think another thing that stood out to me this 0:19:13.485 --> 0:19:16.445 time that I really liked is the way the Paul 0:19:16.485 --> 0:19:20.885 Henried character is in a lot of ways equal to Bogie, 0:19:21.165 --> 0:19:23.565 and I can just I can speak for my son 0:19:23.685 --> 0:19:25.925 and say that he felt that way. Like I mean, 0:19:25.965 --> 0:19:27.805 Bogie is still Bogey, don't get me wrong, right, And 0:19:27.845 --> 0:19:29.805 he's the he's the star of the film. I'm sure 0:19:29.805 --> 0:19:34.645 everyone revers him more. But he could have been played Henri, 0:19:34.805 --> 0:19:37.885 could have been played as this sort of bland I'm 0:19:37.885 --> 0:19:40.045 gonna probably get myself into trouble saying us around two 0:19:40.245 --> 0:19:43.765