1 00:00:05,600 --> 00:00:08,960 Speaker 1: On this episode of Newtsworld. In his new book The 2 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:14,720 Speaker 1: Street Economist Fifteen Economic Lessons Everyone Should Know, Axel Kaiser 3 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:18,599 Speaker 1: offers basic lessons that should be a part of everyone's education. 4 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:24,919 Speaker 1: Crucial concepts such as prices, capital, supply and demand, labor inflation, 5 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:29,280 Speaker 1: value and innovation, among others, are explained in a way 6 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:34,600 Speaker 1: that is understandable to those of us without economic backgrounds. Amazingly, 7 00:00:35,159 --> 00:00:38,559 Speaker 1: The Street Economist is already a best seller in many countries, 8 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 1: including Chile, where it sold fifty thousand copies in a year. 9 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:47,160 Speaker 1: It is now being translated into five different languages. Here 10 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:50,320 Speaker 1: to talk about his new book, I'm really pleased to 11 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:53,840 Speaker 1: welcome my guest, Axual Kaiser. He is a Chilean German 12 00:00:53,960 --> 00:01:08,040 Speaker 1: lawyer with a master in Investments, commerce and arbitration. Let 13 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:09,959 Speaker 1: me say first, thank you for doing this. I think 14 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:10,720 Speaker 1: it's very exciting. 15 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:12,399 Speaker 2: Thank you very much for having me. 16 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:18,040 Speaker 1: Axhel has a remarkable background and it's really so extraordinary. 17 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:20,440 Speaker 1: Would you share with us how you got to be 18 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:21,320 Speaker 1: where you are now. 19 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:23,959 Speaker 3: I started reading a lot when I was a child 20 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:26,480 Speaker 3: growing up in southern Chile in Patagonia. 21 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:28,080 Speaker 2: I went to German school. 22 00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:31,319 Speaker 3: I then went to university and studied law in Santiago, 23 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:35,960 Speaker 3: and I was always a voracious reader, and I then 24 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:39,840 Speaker 3: went for a master's degrees in PhDs in Germany, and 25 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:42,680 Speaker 3: I started writing and winning essay contests everywhere in the 26 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:46,760 Speaker 3: United States, in Latin America and Europe, and then I 27 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 3: published on books that became very popular and best selling books. 28 00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:53,160 Speaker 2: Basically, I'm a. 29 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:56,320 Speaker 3: Columnist to very important newspapers, and then people started to 30 00:01:56,360 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 3: inviting me from everywhere. 31 00:01:57,640 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 2: In the world. 32 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 3: I would say, I've spoken in the United States many times, 33 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 3: all over Latin America, Europe, Eastern Europe. 34 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:07,240 Speaker 2: That's how I ended up here. 35 00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:10,000 Speaker 3: I guess I have some talent for what I do, 36 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:13,799 Speaker 3: and I think a good example of this the success 37 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 3: that The Street Economist has had so far. It has 38 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 3: been a best selling book in not only Chile, but 39 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:23,880 Speaker 3: also Spain, Argentina, is doing great in Brazil, in Germany. 40 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:26,560 Speaker 3: Now it's going to be published in Poland and Mongolia, 41 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 3: and then other countries, maybe Russia and Holland will follow. 42 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:32,400 Speaker 3: So I'm very happy that it was published here in 43 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:36,360 Speaker 3: the United States. Also because especially for young people, it 44 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:39,919 Speaker 3: has made a huge difference everywhere where it has been published. 45 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 3: So that's to make a very long story short. 46 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:45,960 Speaker 1: That's great, but I do think in particular everyone should 47 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:49,760 Speaker 1: be aware of the Street economist fifteen economic lessons everyone 48 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:52,239 Speaker 1: should know and your approach to which is what we're 49 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:55,120 Speaker 1: now going to talk about. So your family originally came 50 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:58,639 Speaker 1: from Germany to Chile because an official policy of the 51 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:02,080 Speaker 1: Chilean government in the twenty century to bring Germans to 52 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 1: help develop the country. Do they still do something like that. 53 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:07,079 Speaker 1: I mean, that's kind of a very interesting model. 54 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:08,480 Speaker 2: Not anymore. 55 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:11,839 Speaker 3: You know, in the nineteenth century, the Chilean government had 56 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:15,520 Speaker 3: this official policy of bringing a qualified labor force coming 57 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:16,320 Speaker 3: from Germany. 58 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 2: They were all qualified people. Most of them. They had knowledge, 59 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:22,160 Speaker 2: technical knowledge, and they were professionals and people like that. 60 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:26,680 Speaker 3: And so my great grandparents they came from Germany before 61 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 3: the First World War and they became extremely prosperous and 62 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 3: wealthy in Chile by developing the agriculture of the country 63 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 3: and industry and different things. And then my grandfather, the 64 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:41,040 Speaker 3: last emigrant from Stuttgart, he emigrated because he escaped the 65 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:44,520 Speaker 3: Nazis didn't like the way things were going in German 66 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 3: in the nineteen thirties. So he saw it coming and said, 67 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 3: I'm not staying here with these crazy people, and he 68 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:53,800 Speaker 3: emigrated to Chile, and then he married my grandmother, who 69 00:03:53,880 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 3: belonged to this very wealthy farm German family, and so he. 70 00:03:57,000 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 2: Was from middle class, but he was very good looking. 71 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:02,440 Speaker 3: My grandmother in law for immediately with him, and then 72 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:05,600 Speaker 3: they married and we are there as a result of that. 73 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 1: Take a minutature to talk about the extraordinary shifts in 74 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 1: Chilean policy Allende to Pinochet, then going through a preader 75 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:18,000 Speaker 1: of Socialist Marxist revolution, et cetera. I mean, it's really 76 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 1: been very dramatic, the various permutations of Chilean policy in 77 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:23,920 Speaker 1: the last forty years or so. 78 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:26,039 Speaker 3: Yeah, And this is the right time to speak about 79 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:30,680 Speaker 3: this because we are commemorating fifty years since we had 80 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:34,080 Speaker 3: the military coup against the communist regime of Allende. 81 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:37,640 Speaker 2: And this was on September eleventh, nineteen seventy three. 82 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:42,479 Speaker 3: And what really happened was that Salva Allende, who had 83 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:45,160 Speaker 3: been funded by the Soviet Union in order to win 84 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:49,839 Speaker 3: the presidential election of nineteen seventy tried to impose a 85 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:53,160 Speaker 3: communist dictatorship, and so he destroyed the rule of law. 86 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:57,880 Speaker 3: He introduced central planned economy and the entry sold after 87 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:00,320 Speaker 3: three years, was hyperinflation. 88 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:01,720 Speaker 2: Of six hundred percent per year. 89 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:05,440 Speaker 3: There was a basic scarcity of basic goods and services, 90 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:09,560 Speaker 3: complete disaster, and we had Garillia groups supporting the regim 91 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:13,040 Speaker 3: that were trained in Cuba and other places. Fidel Castro 92 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:15,840 Speaker 3: spent one month in Chile after Allende was selected in. 93 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:17,880 Speaker 2: Order to support the revolution. 94 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:22,839 Speaker 3: And yes, in the end, the parliament in Chile declared 95 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:27,040 Speaker 3: that the ill Enda government was unconstitutional and was attempting 96 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:32,400 Speaker 3: to impose a toteditarian regime and was violating systematically fundamental 97 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:35,680 Speaker 3: rights that were guaranteed in the constitution. And then they 98 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 3: asked the military to intervene in order to put an 99 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:43,160 Speaker 3: end to Allende's government. And what happened was that then 100 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:47,120 Speaker 3: we had the military rule with Pinochet and the Chicago 101 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:50,200 Speaker 3: Boys came in, people who had studied economics at the 102 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:53,880 Speaker 3: University of Chicago and Milton Friedman, Gary Baker and Harberry 103 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:59,200 Speaker 3: and others, and they made these amazing economic reforms that 104 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:03,280 Speaker 3: transformed from one of the poorest countries in Latin America 105 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:07,280 Speaker 3: into the most prosperous country that Latin America has ever seen. 106 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 3: These reforms were maintained and under the Democratic regimes center 107 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:13,680 Speaker 3: left wing democratic regimes that came in the nineteen nineties, 108 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:18,640 Speaker 3: and we continue to develop and to grow economically, and 109 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:22,800 Speaker 3: then the left started speaking about inequality and that the 110 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:25,120 Speaker 3: system was unfaired, that only. 111 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:27,480 Speaker 2: A few were benefiting, which was a complete lie. This 112 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:28,279 Speaker 2: wasn't the case. 113 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:32,200 Speaker 3: And then Michelle Bachelet came to a second term in 114 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:36,400 Speaker 3: twenty fourteen with the idea of destroying what they called neoliberalism, 115 00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 3: which is basically free market institutions. And since then our 116 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:43,440 Speaker 3: economic growth per capita has been zero zero point six 117 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:46,040 Speaker 3: to be exact. And as a result of that, in 118 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 3: twenty nineteen, we had a huge social crisis that the 119 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:53,839 Speaker 3: left used to their advantage and they proposed to create 120 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:58,320 Speaker 3: a new constitution. Our weeks center right wing government from 121 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:02,760 Speaker 3: Sebastian Pinera into these demands, and then we had a 122 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:07,400 Speaker 3: constitutional experiment where they attempted to introduce a Marxist constitution 123 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:11,160 Speaker 3: of Olivarian constitution right model, you know, like the Chavez 124 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 3: Constitution and so on. Fortunately for Chilean's we had the 125 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:19,280 Speaker 3: chance to decide whether we wanted that constitution or not, 126 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:22,600 Speaker 3: and over sixty percent of Chilean said we don't want 127 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 3: the Communist constitution, and we defeated communism for a second 128 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 3: time in September. Now, so now we are celebrating September 129 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:33,680 Speaker 3: fourth and not celebrating September eleven. But at least we 130 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:36,040 Speaker 3: are aware that it put an end to a communist 131 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 3: regime that was developing in the Cold War. 132 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:41,240 Speaker 2: We cannot forget that it was the midst of the 133 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:41,760 Speaker 2: Cold War. 134 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 3: And Henry Kissinger said that the election of Allende, which 135 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:50,960 Speaker 3: was the first Marxist president ever to be democratically elected 136 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:54,560 Speaker 3: in the world, that this post a threat was one 137 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 3: of the most dangerous things that had ever happened in 138 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:02,520 Speaker 3: the Western hemisphere. Of course, the American government played a 139 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 3: role in the overthrow of Allende, but I don't think 140 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 3: it was nearly as influential as many people pretend. It 141 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 3: was mostly a reaction from the population and the political 142 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:15,880 Speaker 3: class against a tyrant. And then we had the problem 143 00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:18,200 Speaker 3: with the human rights and the Pinochete. Of course, that's 144 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 3: something that we cannot forget. But it was the result 145 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 3: of this communist quasi gers civil war that we had 146 00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:24,400 Speaker 3: with them. 147 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:26,320 Speaker 2: And so that's the short story. 148 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:30,200 Speaker 1: Why do you think when you saw what didn't work, 149 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 1: then they saw what did work, Why would the elites 150 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 1: go back to what didn't work? Well. 151 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:40,320 Speaker 3: There are different reasons, but the main explanation and that's 152 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:43,200 Speaker 3: why I wrote the book The Swet Economist that's become 153 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 3: a major force of political change in Latin America, especially 154 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:49,160 Speaker 3: in Chile and Argentina, is because we lost the battle 155 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 3: of ideas. So basically cultural and gemony. That's a term 156 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:56,199 Speaker 3: that was popularized by Antonio Gramsci, the founder of the 157 00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:59,440 Speaker 3: Communist Party in Italy in the nineteen twenties, and he 158 00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:02,360 Speaker 3: said that that in order to destroy capitalism, you had 159 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:06,840 Speaker 3: to take over institutions, universities, schools, media and so on, 160 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:11,319 Speaker 3: and to really change how people thought about things. And 161 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:14,960 Speaker 3: so we lost the battle of ideas. And this narrative 162 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:18,800 Speaker 3: that the country had been more unequal andjust than ever 163 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:23,440 Speaker 3: before created the conditions for a shift in the political 164 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:27,440 Speaker 3: economy of the country towards more redistribution, more government intervention, 165 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 3: and it created a lot of anger among the population 166 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:35,520 Speaker 3: because despite the fact that inequality was decreasing and poverty 167 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:38,360 Speaker 3: felt from sixty to eight percent and things like that, 168 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:43,600 Speaker 3: people started to believe that the country was unfair, that 169 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:45,960 Speaker 3: a few people were benefiting, and that the rich were 170 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:49,719 Speaker 3: exploiting everyone else, and they voted for Bachelorette, and then 171 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:54,080 Speaker 3: Bachelot destroyed the foundations of Chilean prosperity. And now we 172 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:57,280 Speaker 3: have a Marxist president which is Gabriel Vorrich, who has 173 00:09:57,320 --> 00:10:00,520 Speaker 3: been supported by AOC was recently visiting him in Chile. 174 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:04,079 Speaker 3: And all the radical left internationally, like you know, all 175 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:07,959 Speaker 3: these Hollywood celebrities like Vigo Morton's and Petro Bascal and 176 00:10:08,559 --> 00:10:11,320 Speaker 3: singers like Rory Waters, Peter Gaber and others have supported 177 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:13,920 Speaker 3: Borg and the communist revolution in Chile. Of course, they 178 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:15,839 Speaker 3: don't have to live with the consequences, so it's easy 179 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:18,559 Speaker 3: to do from your mansion in Hollywood or whatever you are. 180 00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:23,479 Speaker 3: And this president has created a huge division among Chileans, 181 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:27,920 Speaker 3: and fortunately he has a very low popularities, is around 182 00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:32,560 Speaker 3: twenty five percent support and lost polls. But he has 183 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:35,959 Speaker 3: tried to move forward with the product of what they 184 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:40,160 Speaker 3: called destroying neoliberalism. Again, neoliberalism is like the term they 185 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:43,320 Speaker 3: use all the time in order to put a label 186 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:48,080 Speaker 3: on what are sensitive and reasonable economic policies. I think 187 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:50,559 Speaker 3: that the promise is similar to what happens to us, 188 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:53,880 Speaker 3: what has happened in the United States, universities have been 189 00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:57,640 Speaker 3: taken over in Chile by hardcore leftist activists and the 190 00:10:57,679 --> 00:11:00,280 Speaker 3: media as well, and that has an impact on how 191 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:04,600 Speaker 3: people think, and that's why we lost the battle of ideas. 192 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 3: And now we are experiencing a process of reaction because 193 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:12,160 Speaker 3: people are seeing the results. And I've been myself probably 194 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:14,880 Speaker 3: the main phase, or for sure the main phase of 195 00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:18,280 Speaker 3: the free market movement in Chile. I have more support 196 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:21,960 Speaker 3: than ever before because people are feeling the pain. Salaries 197 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:24,880 Speaker 3: are not growing, we have high inflation, there is zero 198 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:29,240 Speaker 3: growth practically, and some qualified young people are leaving the country. 199 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:32,040 Speaker 3: That had never happened before in Chilean history, at least 200 00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:35,000 Speaker 3: not in the last thirty years or forty years. And 201 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:37,560 Speaker 3: that's why I think the street economists became so popular 202 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:40,040 Speaker 3: and people on the streets are reading it. The Pirate 203 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:42,640 Speaker 3: edition is being sold on the streets, so it's the 204 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:45,720 Speaker 3: uber driver is the delivery guy. All of these people 205 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 3: want to understand what is going on, and it's the 206 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 3: same in Argentina. Argentina is a huge disaster. It had 207 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:55,200 Speaker 3: the highest per capita income in the world in eighteen 208 00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:58,960 Speaker 3: ninety six with a classical liberal system, and now one 209 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:02,840 Speaker 3: hundred and fifty percent inflation and over forty percent poverty rate. 210 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:07,200 Speaker 3: Six million people are starving, and they produce food for 211 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:11,280 Speaker 3: over four hundred million people. And that's what socialism is 212 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 3: capable of creating this sort of mess. 213 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:16,160 Speaker 2: And that's why I think that Meile will win. 214 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 1: Do you say in Argentina, is the political process moving 215 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:23,760 Speaker 1: back towards a more free market solution. 216 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 3: Absolutely, So I have a lot of faith in Argentina 217 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:32,160 Speaker 3: because what Ermile has achieved, who. 218 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 2: Is now running, as you well know, for president, and 219 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:34,839 Speaker 2: I think he will win. 220 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:38,760 Speaker 3: He's a libertarian in the Freedman high k tradition, right, 221 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:43,280 Speaker 3: is to create a movement with millions of people that 222 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:47,840 Speaker 3: are completely frustrated with the current status of school and 223 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:50,679 Speaker 3: the current situation, and they want freedom. 224 00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:52,040 Speaker 2: They don't have freedom. 225 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:54,560 Speaker 3: You have, as I said, one hundred and fifty percent 226 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:56,920 Speaker 3: inflation in Argentina and they are on the verge of 227 00:12:57,000 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 3: hyperinflation and the country is a huge man Only people 228 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:02,880 Speaker 3: who have incoming dollars have a decent living. 229 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:06,079 Speaker 2: The rest are really having to struggle. 230 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 3: And so I see that the message that people like 231 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:13,480 Speaker 3: myself and Heavier Milay, who presented the strict Economists last 232 00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:17,280 Speaker 3: year in Buenos Aires is having a lot of support, 233 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:20,600 Speaker 3: especially among young people. So now being pro market and 234 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:23,560 Speaker 3: classical liberal and against the woke agenda and all of 235 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:27,600 Speaker 3: that is like being the rebel and cool and also 236 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 3: offering an alternative that has not been tried before. And 237 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:33,880 Speaker 3: I'm very hopeful in that sense that Argentina could, of 238 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:36,960 Speaker 3: course it's very hard to achieve, but make a shift 239 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:43,120 Speaker 3: and experience a renaissance that would had a huge symbolic 240 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:46,439 Speaker 3: importance for the whole Western world because it would put 241 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 3: an end to the myth that the government is a 242 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:49,800 Speaker 3: solution to our problems. 243 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:53,400 Speaker 2: If Argentina can do that, any country can do it. 244 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 1: Hi. This is newt In my new book, March the Majority, 245 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:11,439 Speaker 1: The Real Story of the Republican Revolution, I offer strategies 246 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:15,200 Speaker 1: and insights for everyday citizens and for season politicians. It's 247 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:18,280 Speaker 1: both a guide for political success and for winning back 248 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 1: the majority. In twenty twenty four, March to the Majority 249 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:25,080 Speaker 1: outlines the sixteen year campaign to Write the Contract with 250 00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:29,080 Speaker 1: America explains how we elected the first Republican House majority 251 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 1: in forty years, in how we worked with President Bill 252 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:37,880 Speaker 1: Clinton to pass major reforms, including four consecutive balanced budgets. 253 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 1: March to the Majority tells the behind the scenes story 254 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:44,240 Speaker 1: of how we got it done. Here's a special offer 255 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:47,960 Speaker 1: for my podcast listeners. You can order March the Majority 256 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 1: right now at gingishfree sixty dot com slash book and 257 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:54,240 Speaker 1: it'll be shipped directly to you. Don't miss out on 258 00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:57,520 Speaker 1: a special offer. Go to ginglishtree sixty dot com slash 259 00:14:57,560 --> 00:15:01,960 Speaker 1: book and order your copy now today at gangwishwe sixty 260 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 1: dot com slash book. So one of the points you 261 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:18,080 Speaker 1: make is that the tax increases in Chile have dramatically 262 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:21,440 Speaker 1: increased taxes and corporations. What's the effect of that on 263 00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:22,320 Speaker 1: the real economy. 264 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:27,120 Speaker 3: Basically, after the tax reforms of Michelle Bachelette, who is 265 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:31,440 Speaker 3: people who don't know as socialist who later became the 266 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 3: Secretary General of the UN Humans Rights Council, Will Baheleett 267 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:41,200 Speaker 3: introduced a reform that dramatically increased taxes on corporations from 268 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:44,560 Speaker 3: it was twenty percent to twenty seven percent. But at 269 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 3: the same time, you couldn't use the taxes that you 270 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:51,480 Speaker 3: paid as an owner of the company as a credit 271 00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:54,960 Speaker 3: against your personal taxes, which was the previous system. So 272 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:58,160 Speaker 3: in practical terms, it increased much more than from twenty 273 00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:00,560 Speaker 3: to twenty seven percent. It was like we have fifty 274 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:04,640 Speaker 3: percent increase in taxation for corporations. What happened was that 275 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:09,040 Speaker 3: the investment in Chile collapsed completely. I mean we experienced 276 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:13,320 Speaker 3: the lowest investment rates that we had seen in decades. 277 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:18,040 Speaker 3: Economic Growth planmmeted from five point three percent per year 278 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:21,680 Speaker 3: in the previous government of Pineta as an average for 279 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:25,480 Speaker 3: the four years to one point eight percent to one 280 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:28,760 Speaker 3: point eight percent, which is almost nothing if you adjust 281 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:34,120 Speaker 3: by the growth of the population, and salaries doagnated. People 282 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:38,960 Speaker 3: were used to seeing salaries rising every year. That stopped dramatically, 283 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:42,480 Speaker 3: and as a result of that, we had the social 284 00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:45,000 Speaker 3: crisis of twenty nineteen, with a lot of violence on 285 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:49,240 Speaker 3: the street and people wanting to get rid of the city, 286 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:53,000 Speaker 3: the entire system, and the entire political class. This idea 287 00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:56,840 Speaker 3: of high taxes on corporations, high taxes on the reach 288 00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:01,680 Speaker 3: does not work and in Chili create the disastrous consequences 289 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:04,760 Speaker 3: and even center left when people admit that now and 290 00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:09,240 Speaker 3: are saying we need to reduce taxes on corporations, we 291 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:12,720 Speaker 3: have higher taxes and the average OICD country now in 292 00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:17,840 Speaker 3: Chile and zero economic growth. Now we are in a recession. Actually, 293 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:21,680 Speaker 3: so there you go. I mean, if you punish. 294 00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:24,400 Speaker 2: People who create wealth, what do you expect less wealth 295 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:25,240 Speaker 2: will be created? 296 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:28,560 Speaker 3: And so you have also rising unemployment right now in 297 00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:33,679 Speaker 3: our country and raising physcal deficits and so on and 298 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:37,840 Speaker 3: so forth. Because in Chile, each point of economic growth 299 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:41,560 Speaker 3: means eight one hundred million dollars as a revenue for 300 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:45,679 Speaker 3: the government, and we collapse four points of economic growth. 301 00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:47,120 Speaker 2: So do the math. 302 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:48,960 Speaker 3: For our small country, Actile is a lot of money 303 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:53,000 Speaker 3: that the state does not have, and we have calculated 304 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:56,679 Speaker 3: that in absence of Ashlet's reforms, if we had done nothing, 305 00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:01,880 Speaker 3: now physcal revenues would be twenty six percent higher than 306 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:04,480 Speaker 3: they are after the tax reform. 307 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:05,960 Speaker 2: In order to increase physical revenue. 308 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:11,160 Speaker 3: So it's completely absurd if you want people to learn 309 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:14,000 Speaker 3: from a country that has done very awful things. 310 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:15,720 Speaker 2: To destroy its prosperities and them to Chile. 311 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:19,760 Speaker 1: It's absolute proof of the concept of the laugh or 312 00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:22,800 Speaker 1: a curve that if you raise taxes above a certain point, 313 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:26,400 Speaker 1: you actually reduce revenue because people just avoid the behavior 314 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:27,600 Speaker 1: and don't pay the. 315 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:30,399 Speaker 2: Taxes exactly, and we have capital flights. 316 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:33,760 Speaker 3: According to our Central Bank that are thirty billion dollar 317 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:36,879 Speaker 3: since they in the last three years, even in the 318 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:39,879 Speaker 3: last four years, and other economists have calculated it's about 319 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:41,040 Speaker 3: eighty billion dollar. 320 00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:41,760 Speaker 2: More or less. 321 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:45,840 Speaker 3: We are a three hundred billion dollar GDP economy, so 322 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:48,720 Speaker 3: it's huge when you really take that out into account 323 00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:51,840 Speaker 3: for us. That's what happens when you punish people who invest, 324 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:53,879 Speaker 3: what do you expect to take their money away. 325 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:57,520 Speaker 1: It's sort of a policy of socialists to assume the 326 00:18:57,560 --> 00:19:00,280 Speaker 1: rest of us are stupid and therefore even and they 327 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:03,440 Speaker 1: make policies that purpose that were somehow going to keep. 328 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:04,760 Speaker 2: Doing it exactly. 329 00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:07,600 Speaker 3: And that's why I wrote also the book The Street Economists, 330 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:12,240 Speaker 3: because it's amazing how ignorant people on the left and 331 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:17,600 Speaker 3: also average people who know nothing about basic economic principles are. 332 00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:23,320 Speaker 3: They believe that you can extract wealth from the rich endlessly, 333 00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 3: and that they have enough money so they could pay 334 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:29,520 Speaker 3: all the bills for everyone else, like healthcare and social 335 00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:32,360 Speaker 3: security and things like that. And if you take into 336 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:34,919 Speaker 3: account how much money they have. I did these calculations 337 00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:37,080 Speaker 3: in Chile. If we take all the billionaires we do 338 00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:40,359 Speaker 3: have and take all their wealth away, you can fund 339 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:44,240 Speaker 3: only six months of government spending and it's not much 340 00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:47,119 Speaker 3: more in the United States either. So this idea that 341 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:50,120 Speaker 3: there is endless wealth that you can take away from 342 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:52,480 Speaker 3: wealthy people and that they will continue to create the 343 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:54,639 Speaker 3: same wealth and they will not take it away to 344 00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:59,160 Speaker 3: someplace else is completely absurd. It's not knowing anything about incentives. 345 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:02,080 Speaker 3: But understand that the average person on the street maybe 346 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:04,560 Speaker 3: doesn't know about this because they have not been exposed 347 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:05,680 Speaker 3: to economic ideas. 348 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:08,200 Speaker 2: They are trying to solve their everyday problems. 349 00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:12,280 Speaker 3: And okay, I understand that, But that the elites, that 350 00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:16,200 Speaker 3: even economists would say no, that's the way to go 351 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:19,200 Speaker 3: to me is I don't know how to explain that, 352 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:22,760 Speaker 3: because they are not stupid. They know that this will 353 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:27,120 Speaker 3: have reverse effects on the economy. And so what is it? 354 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:29,880 Speaker 3: Is it that they are just evil people trying to 355 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:33,520 Speaker 3: hurt the system they don't like it. It's probably it's 356 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:36,480 Speaker 3: for ideological reasons. In Chile, for instance, and I've seen 357 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:39,480 Speaker 3: this also in the United States. They've claim that they 358 00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:43,560 Speaker 3: don't care if we are all poorer, provided that we 359 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:47,439 Speaker 3: are all more equal, and because then we would be 360 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:50,760 Speaker 3: happier even if everyone has less, if we are more 361 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:51,720 Speaker 3: equal and we will. 362 00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:54,360 Speaker 1: Be happier joy and mutual poverty. 363 00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:57,760 Speaker 2: Exactly, or maybe they're trying to tame envy or something 364 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:00,119 Speaker 2: like that. I don't know what they want, but of 365 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:03,200 Speaker 2: course they are not thinking about themselves when they say 366 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:05,639 Speaker 2: these things. They are not thinking, Okay, I'm going to 367 00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:08,520 Speaker 2: live with thirty percent less than I live now in 368 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:10,480 Speaker 2: order to be more equal with the rest of them. 369 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:14,240 Speaker 3: They are thinking about other people having less. Yeah, And 370 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:17,840 Speaker 3: usually they are the ones in charge. They are the 371 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:21,800 Speaker 3: ones who are redistributing the wealth and are in power, 372 00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:25,080 Speaker 3: and they spend the money as they see fit, and 373 00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:28,120 Speaker 3: they have all the privileges that comes with being in office. 374 00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:32,520 Speaker 1: You mentioned one other area where there's a disturbing parallelism, 375 00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:35,800 Speaker 1: and that is the greed to which the left wing 376 00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:39,400 Speaker 1: woke activists have taken over the courts, and the greed 377 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:42,520 Speaker 1: to which is now I war being waged against the 378 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:46,159 Speaker 1: police in Chile. Can you sort of describe how that's working. 379 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:51,679 Speaker 3: Well, we are experiencing the worst security crisis in the 380 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:55,760 Speaker 3: country's history. Chile used to be a safe country in 381 00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:59,200 Speaker 3: the context of Latin America. Now as Salvator is safer 382 00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:02,840 Speaker 3: than Chile, we have the highest murder rate in the 383 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:07,280 Speaker 3: history of the country. We have organized crime like we 384 00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:11,719 Speaker 3: had never seen before. Every day you have bodies like 385 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:15,520 Speaker 3: in Juarez in Mexico that appear on the streets, like 386 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:19,680 Speaker 3: dismembered or beheaded, things like that. And this is the 387 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:23,520 Speaker 3: result of decades of preaching against the police and law 388 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:28,880 Speaker 3: enforcement and also activists who have taken over the courts, 389 00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:32,280 Speaker 3: who are very willing to pardon. 390 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:33,000 Speaker 2: All the criminals. 391 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:36,960 Speaker 3: But at the same time, when the police do something 392 00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:41,199 Speaker 3: about it, they put them in prison. So in the end, 393 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:45,080 Speaker 3: the incentives you have for the police to do something, 394 00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:48,600 Speaker 3: it's very low because in the end the police also 395 00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:51,160 Speaker 3: responds to incentives, and if they see that, they will 396 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:55,560 Speaker 3: lose their careers, their income and everything because they are 397 00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:56,560 Speaker 3: fighting criminals. 398 00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:57,880 Speaker 2: What do you expect? 399 00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:00,440 Speaker 3: And that's why the criminals in Chile do everything, want 400 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:03,360 Speaker 3: more or less, and nothing happens to them. Too many 401 00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:05,760 Speaker 3: of them, some of them get caught and they end 402 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:08,359 Speaker 3: up in prison. But we also have a terrorist movement 403 00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:11,520 Speaker 3: in southern Chile that is linked to the Farks in 404 00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:15,919 Speaker 3: Colombia and who are linked to drag trafficking, and no 405 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:18,640 Speaker 3: government has done anything about it. It's the area where 406 00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:21,639 Speaker 3: I grew up in southern Chile, and this is a 407 00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:24,840 Speaker 3: Marxist organization that claimed to represent indigenous people, but it's 408 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:27,360 Speaker 3: a lie. Indigenous people in southern Chile are all right wing. 409 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:30,880 Speaker 3: They vot also the right. They don't believe in Marxist ideas, 410 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 3: and so the rule of law in Chile has collapsed 411 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:37,359 Speaker 3: as a result of these ideologies. Is progressive ideologists that 412 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:40,640 Speaker 3: by the way, we're important from the United States and 413 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:44,800 Speaker 3: from European countries by our PhDs who went there came 414 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:49,120 Speaker 3: back and started to make laws that transformed the usual 415 00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:53,359 Speaker 3: system and started to teach the new judges in these doctrines. 416 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:57,800 Speaker 3: And as a result of this influence, we now have 417 00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:01,719 Speaker 3: a broken system. Basically in Chile, people at mar bu 418 00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:07,040 Speaker 3: kele more than any other Latin American president now because 419 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:09,439 Speaker 3: they are tired of this criminality. They can't go to 420 00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:12,480 Speaker 3: their houses. And it's not like in the United States, 421 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:15,120 Speaker 3: where you can move from let's say California to Florida, 422 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:16,600 Speaker 3: and Florida the system is working. 423 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:20,840 Speaker 2: In Chile, you cannot do that. It's not working for 424 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:24,200 Speaker 2: no one, not even rich people are safe enough. Kidnappings 425 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:26,639 Speaker 2: are happening. We didn't have that before. 426 00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:29,360 Speaker 3: And also migration played a role in this because we've 427 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:34,520 Speaker 3: got many criminals coming from Venezuela and Colombia into the 428 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:38,680 Speaker 3: country with no background checks, so they could come in 429 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:42,879 Speaker 3: and they have important and they have brought forms of 430 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:45,240 Speaker 3: crime that we didn't know. And this has been even 431 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:48,119 Speaker 3: admitted by our current left wing government. I mean, this 432 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:52,560 Speaker 3: is a non partisan issue right now, So defund the 433 00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:53,480 Speaker 3: police doesn't work. 434 00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:13,280 Speaker 1: You really chake head on the whole idea of free education, 435 00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:17,720 Speaker 1: free student loans, et. Can you explain why you object 436 00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:19,040 Speaker 1: to the word free. 437 00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:21,280 Speaker 3: As I explained the book The Street Economist, and you 438 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:23,520 Speaker 3: know Milton Friedman used to repeat this all the time. 439 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:27,080 Speaker 3: There is no such thing as a free lunch. Someone 440 00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:28,840 Speaker 3: has to pay for it. When you claim that you 441 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:32,040 Speaker 3: have a right to education and to a free education, 442 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:34,840 Speaker 3: what you are really saying that you have a right 443 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:39,320 Speaker 3: to other people's labor, that someone else would work in 444 00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:43,040 Speaker 3: order to pay the university for you. And so you're 445 00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:48,360 Speaker 3: profiting from other people's efforts without giving anything in exchange 446 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:53,120 Speaker 3: in return. It's a coarse way of providing a service 447 00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:55,480 Speaker 3: that you value in order to increase your human capital, 448 00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:59,280 Speaker 3: and without giving anything in return. As I say, because 449 00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:02,919 Speaker 3: you use through taxation in order to get that. And 450 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:05,160 Speaker 3: that's why I think it's immoral and it's only about 451 00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:08,879 Speaker 3: public policy. And I think all economists who are reasonable 452 00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:14,080 Speaker 3: economists agree that free higher education is but economic policy. 453 00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:17,520 Speaker 3: It's regressive, it benefits an elite, it doesn't really benefit 454 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:20,200 Speaker 3: people who need the most, who need it the most, 455 00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:23,520 Speaker 3: and so on. To me, the main objection is one 456 00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:26,600 Speaker 3: based on values and principles. You don't have a right 457 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:29,320 Speaker 3: to other people's labor, to the fruit of the labor 458 00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:32,920 Speaker 3: of someone else. You can need the money for something, 459 00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:35,320 Speaker 3: but that doesn't give you the right to go to 460 00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:38,960 Speaker 3: your neighbor and take away his salary in order to 461 00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:41,360 Speaker 3: buy your education or to pay for your education. 462 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:44,480 Speaker 2: So that's why I think social justice is a huge fallacy. 463 00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:48,680 Speaker 1: So how do we end up losing this intellectual fight 464 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,760 Speaker 1: to such a degree that, you know, it turns out 465 00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:56,040 Speaker 1: somebody is having to pay for others, but we describe 466 00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:59,320 Speaker 1: it as free, and nobody successfully breaks in to say, 467 00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:02,640 Speaker 1: wait a second, it's not free. It's just that you're 468 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:07,160 Speaker 1: getting an unfair advantage because that's being taken from somebody else. 469 00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:09,439 Speaker 1: Why did we lose that fight intellectually? 470 00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:15,560 Speaker 3: Well, I think for a long time in the United 471 00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:20,680 Speaker 3: States also in the West, we have lacked public intellectuals 472 00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:24,320 Speaker 3: that are engaging in these battle of ideas in the 473 00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:28,399 Speaker 3: way like Midwam freemen used to do. And most public 474 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:34,879 Speaker 3: intellectuals you see are leftists, are progressives, or our social Democrats, 475 00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:37,680 Speaker 3: or even center right wing people who buy into the 476 00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:40,359 Speaker 3: stuff of giving things for free because it's popular and 477 00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:43,200 Speaker 3: they want to get maybe some positions in the government 478 00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:45,840 Speaker 3: or want to be elected in case when they're politicians. 479 00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:50,920 Speaker 3: So we haven't really fought this fight because there's only 480 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:52,920 Speaker 3: a few of us doing this job, and there are 481 00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:55,359 Speaker 3: thousands of them, and they have money, and they have 482 00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:58,159 Speaker 3: the government behind them, and they have their political class 483 00:27:58,240 --> 00:27:59,680 Speaker 3: sometimes supporting them. 484 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:00,840 Speaker 2: And that's the. 485 00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:03,320 Speaker 3: Reason that you know, we have losses, not because our 486 00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:06,600 Speaker 3: ideas are worse or it's impossible to win the fight. 487 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:10,840 Speaker 3: We have experiences in Latin America when we started fighting it, 488 00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:12,880 Speaker 3: and I was, like I said, one of the main 489 00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:14,800 Speaker 3: fases and still am one of the main phases of 490 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:17,600 Speaker 3: this movement in Latin America. We started winning and winning 491 00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:21,840 Speaker 3: even politically. So I think we have plenty of very 492 00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:24,080 Speaker 3: smart people who understand this, but they are in the 493 00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:25,359 Speaker 3: Ivory Tower writing. 494 00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:29,000 Speaker 2: Papers and books that no one reads. And that's a problem. 495 00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:33,080 Speaker 3: And then the universities have been taken over by left 496 00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:35,919 Speaker 3: wig scholars, even from Harvard. And the problem is that 497 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:39,280 Speaker 3: when a Harvard professor says something, it carries a weight, 498 00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:43,080 Speaker 3: that is, because of the brand Harvard. It's not the 499 00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:46,440 Speaker 3: same as if someone from another university or from another 500 00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:50,440 Speaker 3: place says something. To the average person, right, you and I, 501 00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:52,520 Speaker 3: we can make the distinction. We don't buy into this 502 00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:55,160 Speaker 3: nonsense that because we are a Harvard professor we are right. 503 00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:58,960 Speaker 3: Necessarily we don't believe that. But to the average person, 504 00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:03,120 Speaker 3: this brands they gave a lot of credibility. And let's 505 00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:05,440 Speaker 3: take the case of Joseph Stieglitz for instance, with his 506 00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:09,320 Speaker 3: Nobel price. He has been going to Latin America for 507 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:15,280 Speaker 3: decades supporting our worst socialist dictators, the Castros in Cuba, 508 00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:20,640 Speaker 3: shovels in Venezuela, Coorea in Ecuador, Eva Morales in Bolivia, 509 00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:24,120 Speaker 3: and now recently he went to Chile to support President Borich. 510 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:30,800 Speaker 3: And so because he has an Obel price, then the media, 511 00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:34,400 Speaker 3: who are mostly leftists also say, oh Nobel LRD and 512 00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:38,200 Speaker 3: economics says that evo Morales, you know, plan to nationalize 513 00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:41,520 Speaker 3: the gas companies is a great idea. 514 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,960 Speaker 2: We don't have a Nobel Price, waning economists from our 515 00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:48,080 Speaker 2: side arguing against it. They don't take the time to 516 00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:51,200 Speaker 2: travel to Chile and do you know public interviews and 517 00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:54,360 Speaker 2: support the president that is doing the opposite to what 518 00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:55,040 Speaker 2: the left is to. 519 00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:58,640 Speaker 3: They don't do that. We don't have that. It's just 520 00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:01,680 Speaker 3: actual kiser against Joseph Stinklitz. So people believe the guy. 521 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:04,800 Speaker 2: With an Owel price, and of course it's a fallacy 522 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:08,800 Speaker 2: because he has said so much nonsense, and really it's 523 00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:13,120 Speaker 2: unforgivable because he has endorsed Fidel Castro. Literally. I wrote 524 00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:15,240 Speaker 2: a column fully Washington Examiner about this. 525 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:19,760 Speaker 3: It's a disgrace what Stieglitz has done in terms of 526 00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:24,040 Speaker 3: supporting the Kirsheners in Argentina, the Clecto characraatic dynasty of 527 00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:27,880 Speaker 3: the Cureeners. We have they have stolen some people calculate 528 00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:31,160 Speaker 3: like ten billion dollars from the Argentina population. 529 00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:34,000 Speaker 2: Because they run the country for over a decade. Christina A. 530 00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:36,080 Speaker 2: Currenar is still the vice president in Argentina. 531 00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:40,160 Speaker 3: So the most corrupt, most destructive political class in Latin 532 00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:43,200 Speaker 3: America has been supported by Stieglitz, even Terians like like 533 00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:46,520 Speaker 3: the Castros. There you have an example. Then, for instance, 534 00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:49,959 Speaker 3: when we had the constitutional referendum in Borich being elected 535 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:55,480 Speaker 3: president our Marxist current Marxist president, you had Peter Gabriel 536 00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:59,720 Speaker 3: Rowier Waters, the former Prink Floyd guy. You had Diego Mortensen, 537 00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:04,880 Speaker 3: you Sting, you have Susan Sarandon. You had all these 538 00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:11,440 Speaker 3: celebrities supporting Porridge and the Communist revolution. No one supported 539 00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:15,760 Speaker 3: jos Antonio cast the guy who ran against forage or 540 00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:20,080 Speaker 3: the option to reject the new constitution. None of these 541 00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:26,400 Speaker 3: celebrities worldwide did that. That's even so, despite that we 542 00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:30,640 Speaker 3: want right, but of course it helps when you have 543 00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:33,840 Speaker 3: all these big names behind you. It makes a difference. 544 00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:35,960 Speaker 3: So that's why we lose. We don't have the people 545 00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:37,480 Speaker 3: engaging in the battle of ideas. 546 00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:41,840 Speaker 1: You have a pretty tough critique of Marxism and socialism. 547 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:48,120 Speaker 1: Are they always inherently flawed because of their misunderstanding of 548 00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:50,760 Speaker 1: the nature of being human and of the way in 549 00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:52,240 Speaker 1: which the world really works. 550 00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:55,800 Speaker 3: You don't have a different thesis. I think Marxism and 551 00:31:55,880 --> 00:32:03,160 Speaker 3: socialism are inherently evil. They understand human nature and marx 552 00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:12,080 Speaker 3: for instance, he knew precisely the effects that his doctrine 553 00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:16,160 Speaker 3: would have on society. He knew that it would be 554 00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:20,560 Speaker 3: large scale violence, that we would have a dictatorship where 555 00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:22,520 Speaker 3: you would have to get rid of the burgers, you 556 00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:25,280 Speaker 3: would have to kill them all if necessary. But at 557 00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:31,480 Speaker 3: the same time, Marxism promised and utopia where everyone was 558 00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:35,000 Speaker 3: going to be equal and wealthy and all of these things, 559 00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:39,600 Speaker 3: because he knew that in order to sell his destructive 560 00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:46,040 Speaker 3: program he had to disguise it as a sort of humanitarianism, 561 00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:49,400 Speaker 3: and so he took lots of Christian motives in order 562 00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:53,840 Speaker 3: to sell his nonsensical religion. Because Marxism is our religion 563 00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:57,040 Speaker 3: in the end. And if you read the testimonies of 564 00:32:57,040 --> 00:33:00,720 Speaker 3: people who knew Marx when he was alive, they tell 565 00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:03,720 Speaker 3: you that this was a horrible human being, full of 566 00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:09,680 Speaker 3: hatred and envy, and that he wanted to destroy. Even 567 00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:13,440 Speaker 3: socialists who met him, they have written about this about Marx. 568 00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:18,920 Speaker 3: He wanted to destroy the Christian world above anything else. 569 00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:22,719 Speaker 3: He actually said that. Marx he has writings where he 570 00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:25,440 Speaker 3: claims that the big promise Christianity and we have to 571 00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:27,520 Speaker 3: get rid of it, and that we have to banle 572 00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:31,640 Speaker 3: religion and things like that, and Engel said that love 573 00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:36,880 Speaker 3: for humanity was nonsense, that what we needed was hatred. 574 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:41,280 Speaker 3: He actually wrote that Engel's his friend and his patron, 575 00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:44,240 Speaker 3: because Marx lived out of Engel's money for a long time. 576 00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:47,720 Speaker 3: And so I think it's evil. It's truly evil. But 577 00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:51,200 Speaker 3: it's easier to sell than let's say, fascism or Nazism, 578 00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:54,480 Speaker 3: because Nazism tells you in your face what they want 579 00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:56,920 Speaker 3: to achieve, and they tell you, well, you know, this 580 00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:58,440 Speaker 3: is the superior race. All of you are going to 581 00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:02,000 Speaker 3: be slaves of our empire. And so you are on 582 00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:04,120 Speaker 3: guard and you say, okay, these people are truly evil. 583 00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:07,160 Speaker 3: But with Marxism is somehow even worse, because they tell 584 00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:11,000 Speaker 3: you that they want to achieve something completely different than 585 00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:14,960 Speaker 3: what they really want to achieve, which is power to 586 00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:19,360 Speaker 3: Talitanism and control over people's lives, total control over people's lives. 587 00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:22,759 Speaker 3: And so you buy into this narrative because it sounds good. 588 00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:25,600 Speaker 3: It sounds very good, and that's why you can have 589 00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:29,000 Speaker 3: Stalin bar and cities and nothing happens. But you cannot, have, 590 00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:31,400 Speaker 3: of course, a Hitler bar because that people would riot. 591 00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:34,560 Speaker 3: But Stalin was as much as a criminalist as Hitler was, 592 00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:39,360 Speaker 3: and the ideology of communism and Nazism are exactly the 593 00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:45,240 Speaker 3: same in terms of their intrinsic criminality and the genocidal impetus. 594 00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:48,160 Speaker 3: So Marxism sounds better. That's it. 595 00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:49,040 Speaker 2: It deceives us. 596 00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:51,360 Speaker 1: And so I want to thank you for joining me. 597 00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:54,880 Speaker 1: This has been a fascinating conversation. You're a remarkable person. 598 00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:58,319 Speaker 1: I hope you continue to be as active, aggressive and 599 00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:01,840 Speaker 1: idealistic as you are now. Your new book, The Street 600 00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:05,080 Speaker 1: Economist is a great read. I encourage all of our 601 00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:07,400 Speaker 1: listeners to get a copy and to make sure that 602 00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:10,920 Speaker 1: their elected representatives have a copy. So thank you for 603 00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:11,560 Speaker 1: joining us. 604 00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:14,240 Speaker 2: Thank you very much for having me. It's a pleasure. 605 00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:21,920 Speaker 1: Thank you to my guest, Axel Kaiser. You can get 606 00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:24,640 Speaker 1: a link to buy his new book, The Street Economist 607 00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:28,279 Speaker 1: on our show page at newtsworld dot com. Newtsworld is 608 00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:32,680 Speaker 1: produced by Ginglish three sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer 609 00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:37,720 Speaker 1: is Guarnsey Sloan. Our researcher is Rachel Peterson. The artwork 610 00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:41,720 Speaker 1: for the show was created by Steve Penley. Special thanks 611 00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:44,319 Speaker 1: to the team at Ginglish three sixty. If you've been 612 00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:47,680 Speaker 1: enjoying Newtsworld, I hope you'll go to Apple Podcast and 613 00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:50,440 Speaker 1: both rate us with five stars and give us a 614 00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:54,320 Speaker 1: review so others can learn what it's all about. Right now, 615 00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:57,920 Speaker 1: listeners of Newtsworld can sign up for my three free 616 00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:03,200 Speaker 1: weekly columns at gingishtree sixty dot com slash newsletter. I'm 617 00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:05,319 Speaker 1: Nut Gingrich. This is Nut's World.