1
00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:05,520
Speaker 1: A media Hey everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted

2
00:00:05,519 --> 00:00:08,559
Speaker 1: to let you know this is a compilation episode. So

3
00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:12,200
Speaker 1: every episode of the week that just happened is here

4
00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:16,239
Speaker 1: in one convenient and with somewhat less ads package for

5
00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:18,440
Speaker 1: you to listen to in a long stretch if you want.

6
00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:21,000
Speaker 1: If you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,

7
00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:22,759
Speaker 1: there's going to be nothing new here for you, but

8
00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:29,800
Speaker 1: you can make your own decisions. Hey, everybody, this is

9
00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:32,159
Speaker 1: it could happen here and I am Robert Evans, and

10
00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:35,720
Speaker 1: initially this is supposed to be a slightly different episode.

11
00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:38,159
Speaker 1: I have been pondering over the fact recently that I

12
00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:42,479
Speaker 1: feel weirdly optimistic, particularly in the last couple of weeks,

13
00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:45,080
Speaker 1: especially compared to a lot of the people that I

14
00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:47,800
Speaker 1: know and spend time around. And I think it's because

15
00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:50,560
Speaker 1: I've been interpreting some of the same pieces of news

16
00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:53,400
Speaker 1: differently than they have, and because I've been coming across

17
00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:56,720
Speaker 1: some different pieces of information than they have. And I

18
00:00:56,760 --> 00:00:59,960
Speaker 1: wanted to kind of walk people through why I've been

19
00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:03,400
Speaker 1: feeling so optimistic, and so I wrote something and I

20
00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:07,280
Speaker 1: recorded it around Thursday of last week, and then over

21
00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:10,320
Speaker 1: the weekend a gunman attack the White House Correspondence dinner,

22
00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:14,240
Speaker 1: and actually, this hasn't really changed any of my overall feelings.

23
00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:17,959
Speaker 1: We'll talk about that this week, probably on ED, but

24
00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:21,080
Speaker 1: I did make some alterations to the episode as a

25
00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:23,800
Speaker 1: result of that, although I do think it reinforces my

26
00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:27,679
Speaker 1: primary point, which is that the political era that we

27
00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:33,119
Speaker 1: now find ourselves in is one dominated by extremophiles. Extremophiles

28
00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:36,959
Speaker 1: are organisms with unique cellular and molecular mechanisms that allow

29
00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:40,200
Speaker 1: them to survive and thrive in extreme habitats. I'm talking

30
00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:42,959
Speaker 1: about places like volcanic events at the very bottom of

31
00:01:42,959 --> 00:01:46,160
Speaker 1: the ocean, or the Dead Sea. If you've ever wondered

32
00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:48,880
Speaker 1: why it's called the dead sea, it's because for a

33
00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:51,520
Speaker 1: very long time, people thought it was too salty to

34
00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:55,480
Speaker 1: host any life. Modern research has disabused us of this notion.

35
00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:59,000
Speaker 1: The dead sea hosts life. It's just weird life, because

36
00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:02,600
Speaker 1: the dead Sea is a weird place. The term extremophile

37
00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:05,600
Speaker 1: was coined in nineteen seventy four by R. D. McElroy

38
00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:09,760
Speaker 1: to describe microorganisms scientists were increasingly finding in places that

39
00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:12,360
Speaker 1: should have been devoid of life. The word is a

40
00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:16,200
Speaker 1: hybrid term that literally means love of extremes, and while

41
00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:19,240
Speaker 1: it is usually used in a scientific context to describe

42
00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:22,839
Speaker 1: small organisms and very odd locations, some experts have over

43
00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:25,680
Speaker 1: the years pointed out that the label might well apply

44
00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:30,000
Speaker 1: to humans too. In the journal article all about Extremophiles JOHNS.

45
00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:34,520
Speaker 1: Hopkins Universities, James A. Koker wrote that quote, despite common perception,

46
00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:36,840
Speaker 1: most of Earth is what is often referred to as

47
00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:39,760
Speaker 1: an extreme environment. Yet to the organisms that call these

48
00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:43,280
Speaker 1: places home, it is simply that home. They have adapted

49
00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:46,120
Speaker 1: to thrive in these environments, and in the process have

50
00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:49,840
Speaker 1: evolved many unique adaptations at the molecular and atomic level.

51
00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:52,800
Speaker 1: In our human centric view of the planet Earth, we

52
00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:55,600
Speaker 1: tend to think of ourselves as being in the Goldilock zone,

53
00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:58,680
Speaker 1: not too hot or too cold, protected from radiation, and

54
00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:01,519
Speaker 1: filled with all the things next necessary for life to exist.

55
00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:04,560
Speaker 1: To some extent, this is true. However, this view keeps

56
00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:07,760
Speaker 1: us from acknowledging several basic facts, including that the Earth

57
00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:10,320
Speaker 1: is mostly a cold place. Over ninety percent of its

58
00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:13,320
Speaker 1: oceans are at or below five degrees celsius, and it

59
00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:16,400
Speaker 1: has an average temperature of around fifteen degrees celsius, and

60
00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:20,000
Speaker 1: several conditions we humans consider normal i e. Twenty percent

61
00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:23,440
Speaker 1: oxygen in the air actually make us extremophiles from the

62
00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:24,880
Speaker 1: point of view of other species.

63
00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:26,560
Speaker 2: End quote.

64
00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:29,000
Speaker 1: Now, I have a bad tendency to want to apply

65
00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:33,040
Speaker 1: literal knowledge like this metaphorically to my understanding of politics.

66
00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:35,720
Speaker 1: It's a bit of a sickness, but it also makes

67
00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:39,440
Speaker 1: more sense sometimes than you'd expect. There's a tendency among

68
00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:42,000
Speaker 1: many millennials and even Gen Z and Alpha kids too

69
00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:44,240
Speaker 1: young to have known the nineties to look back on

70
00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:47,680
Speaker 1: that decade as a sort of cultural goldilock zone, as

71
00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:50,600
Speaker 1: if the brief period post Cold War and pre nine

72
00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:54,080
Speaker 1: eleven was some sort of cultural peak for our species,

73
00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:57,320
Speaker 1: and everything since has been a slow downhill slide. People

74
00:03:57,360 --> 00:03:59,440
Speaker 1: have different reasons for this. Some of them blame nine

75
00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:01,200
Speaker 1: to eleven. Some people will argue that we were in

76
00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:04,360
Speaker 1: that sweet spot where the Internet existed and could tap

77
00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:07,560
Speaker 1: you into cool and interesting things, but social media hadn't

78
00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:09,800
Speaker 1: come along yet and ruined it all. You know, different

79
00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:12,920
Speaker 1: people come up with different justifications for this, but this

80
00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:16,280
Speaker 1: view keeps people from acknowledging some very basic facts about

81
00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:18,440
Speaker 1: the nineteen nineties, which is that they were full of

82
00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:22,120
Speaker 1: genocides and Rwanda and Bosnia just named two, and repeated

83
00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:25,640
Speaker 1: US military adventures and misadventures in other parts of the globe,

84
00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:30,200
Speaker 1: some of which ended disastrously, as in Mogadishu. Our president

85
00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:32,719
Speaker 1: for most of the nineties was a sex pest, and

86
00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:35,320
Speaker 1: members of the far right staged a series of bloody

87
00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:39,320
Speaker 1: terrorist attacks, including the Oklahoma City bombing and Olympic Park bombing.

88
00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:42,120
Speaker 1: And while all this was happening, a new and more

89
00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:47,120
Speaker 1: openly extremist Republican Party captured Congress, while hapless outmaneuver Democrats

90
00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:50,880
Speaker 1: gawked in awe. The reality is that the nineties were

91
00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:54,880
Speaker 1: a time of extremity, of extreme weirdness and darkness, just

92
00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:58,000
Speaker 1: like every other period of human existence, and the extremity

93
00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:01,240
Speaker 1: of the era helped birth a new conservative movement, one

94
00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:03,960
Speaker 1: radical enough to wrench power from the liberals and bring

95
00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:08,320
Speaker 1: us ultimately into the slavering jaws of the Bush era. Today,

96
00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:12,360
Speaker 1: those same neo conservatives seemed tame next to their modern descendants,

97
00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:14,920
Speaker 1: the Maga movement, But in their own time, they were

98
00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:17,840
Speaker 1: the craziest bastards out there. And this hits at a

99
00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:22,240
Speaker 1: fundamental reality in American politics. If survival in extreme times

100
00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:25,760
Speaker 1: requires extreme adaptations, then It's no wonder that for much

101
00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:28,400
Speaker 1: of our lives, the extremists are the ones who have

102
00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:32,960
Speaker 1: primarily thrived electorally. Democrats like to forget this, but Bill

103
00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:35,920
Speaker 1: Clinton felt like a pretty big swing to folks exiting

104
00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:38,760
Speaker 1: the era of Ronald Reagan and George H. W. Bush,

105
00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:41,960
Speaker 1: just as Barack Obama was seen as the most extreme

106
00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:45,599
Speaker 1: choice imaginable by roughly half of this country. In fact,

107
00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:48,599
Speaker 1: he was such an extreme choice that the Conservative movement

108
00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:50,960
Speaker 1: had to birth the Tea Party and eventually the Maga

109
00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:54,520
Speaker 1: Movement in order to unseat the Democratic Party and repeal

110
00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:57,719
Speaker 1: the changes from the Obama years in power. I like

111
00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:00,159
Speaker 1: thinking about this stuff because I find it interesting that

112
00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:03,560
Speaker 1: one common theme from evolutionary biology to modern politics is

113
00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:08,320
Speaker 1: this in extreme environments, extreme adaptations are necessary to survive.

114
00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:11,200
Speaker 1: We Homo sapiens, have been in the business of extreme

115
00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:13,240
Speaker 1: adaptations for as long as we've existed.

116
00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:14,000
Speaker 2: That's all.

117
00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:17,600
Speaker 1: Central heating and air, vaccines, antibiotics, and the AR fifteen

118
00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:21,720
Speaker 1: are adaptations to extreme environments and situations, many of them

119
00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:25,719
Speaker 1: extreme environments and situations that we created for ourselves. The

120
00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:29,200
Speaker 1: problem is our adaptations have a nasty tendency to drive

121
00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:33,640
Speaker 1: even more extreme circumstances, which in turn foster further adaptations,

122
00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:35,919
Speaker 1: and so on and so forth until we invent the

123
00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:40,159
Speaker 1: Internet and satellite guided thermonuclear bombs. Extreme adaptations are not

124
00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:43,839
Speaker 1: always good, but once you've found yourself thrown into an

125
00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:46,840
Speaker 1: extreme environment, you can't just wish the weather was different.

126
00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:50,400
Speaker 1: You've got to adapt. That's the bad news about our

127
00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:54,240
Speaker 1: current political situation. The good news is that the pendulum

128
00:06:54,279 --> 00:06:57,520
Speaker 1: has started to swing back our way. The extremism of

129
00:06:57,520 --> 00:07:00,839
Speaker 1: the Trump era is provoking its own equal but opposite reaction,

130
00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:03,120
Speaker 1: and you can see the first stirrings of that and

131
00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:06,160
Speaker 1: the popularity of Zoron Mandani, or the fact that a

132
00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:09,840
Speaker 1: former pillow of neo conservatism like Bill Crystal is currently

133
00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:12,840
Speaker 1: advocating for the abolition of ice. We are in the

134
00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:17,000
Speaker 1: process of deciding the next extreme that will dominate American politics,

135
00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:20,280
Speaker 1: which means we have the opportunity to adapt with policies

136
00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:22,520
Speaker 1: and changes that are every bit as good as the

137
00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:25,880
Speaker 1: ones that Trump administration has forced through our bad To

138
00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:28,040
Speaker 1: do that, we're going to have to be brave and

139
00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:30,520
Speaker 1: we're going to have to start getting our shit together now,

140
00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:34,360
Speaker 1: because this window of opportunity won't last long. The way

141
00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:37,200
Speaker 1: I see it. The GOP entered office this time around,

142
00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:40,160
Speaker 1: intent on waging the political equivalent of a shock and

143
00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:43,520
Speaker 1: awe campaign. They burnt up any goodwill or benefit of

144
00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:45,480
Speaker 1: the doubt they might have had in an orgy of

145
00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:49,160
Speaker 1: careless and brutal cuts to basic government functions carried out

146
00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:52,440
Speaker 1: by the least sympathetic group of Groper's imaginable, one of

147
00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:55,640
Speaker 1: whom was nicknamed big Balls. A fleury of state and

148
00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:59,120
Speaker 1: local legislative pushes and criminal investigations aimed at hurting left

149
00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:04,000
Speaker 1: wing activists and queer, particularly trans people have done tremendous damage,

150
00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:07,280
Speaker 1: as have relentless ice raids on mostly non white Americans.

151
00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:11,000
Speaker 1: It's been bad, and yet we're still here. I won't

152
00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:13,920
Speaker 1: pretend we're in a good situation today, not at least

153
00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:16,280
Speaker 1: in terms of what we'd like good to mean in

154
00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:19,040
Speaker 1: the everyday sense of the word. Many of us haven't

155
00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:21,360
Speaker 1: survived the first sixteen months or so of the Second

156
00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:24,160
Speaker 1: Trunk presidency. Fewer of us are going to make it

157
00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:26,720
Speaker 1: to the end. But this regime came to power with

158
00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:29,840
Speaker 1: the knowledge that their success or failure hinged on speed

159
00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:32,480
Speaker 1: and violence of action. They had a limited window to

160
00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:36,520
Speaker 1: make resistance impossible, and they missed it. You can see

161
00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:38,960
Speaker 1: some evidence of this in our War of Choice against Iran.

162
00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:41,760
Speaker 1: President Trump wanted a quick, brutal triumph that would look

163
00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:44,319
Speaker 1: good on the evening news, so he told his military

164
00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:46,360
Speaker 1: to bear down on Iran with all the speed and

165
00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:49,720
Speaker 1: violence of action they could muster. That plan failed, and

166
00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:52,480
Speaker 1: the reasons why are weirdly similar to how the Republican

167
00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:55,280
Speaker 1: Party has overplayed their hand in our ongoing culture war.

168
00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:59,439
Speaker 1: Back in Trump's first term, the DoD established the Algorithmic

169
00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:03,640
Speaker 1: Warfare cross functional team nicknamed Project Maven. The goal of

170
00:09:03,679 --> 00:09:06,920
Speaker 1: the project, as per Lieutenant General Jack Shanahan, was to

171
00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:10,240
Speaker 1: automate the analysis of drone footage and other data humans

172
00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:12,800
Speaker 1: previously would have gone over by hand, in order to

173
00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:15,440
Speaker 1: speed up the rate at which targets were identified and

174
00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:19,840
Speaker 1: struck in wartime. Project Maban from the Jump was a

175
00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:22,959
Speaker 1: product of the worst kind of military thinking, How can

176
00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:26,840
Speaker 1: we automate as much of our planning of warfare as possible.

177
00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:29,080
Speaker 1: This is the kind of project you pursue when your

178
00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:32,240
Speaker 1: finest military minds still believe that victory is as simple

179
00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:35,200
Speaker 1: as killing or destroying a preset number of bad guys,

180
00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:38,240
Speaker 1: causing them to give up. The goal was to create

181
00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:41,160
Speaker 1: a system that could collate and synthesize huge quantities of

182
00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:45,079
Speaker 1: data in order to allow one thousand targeting decisions per hour.

183
00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:48,320
Speaker 1: Kevin Baker, writing for The Guardian, notes that this means

184
00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:51,400
Speaker 1: quote three point six seconds per decision, or from the

185
00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:56,920
Speaker 1: individual targeteer's perspective, one decision every seventy two seconds. Now,

186
00:09:56,920 --> 00:09:59,000
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about where this kind of thinking

187
00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:01,320
Speaker 1: has led us in our conflict with Iran. But first,

188
00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:16,440
Speaker 1: here's some ads we're back. Now. If you listen to

189
00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:18,760
Speaker 1: the advocates of this kind of military build up that

190
00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:22,040
Speaker 1: people who are really bullish on AI for military purposes

191
00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:26,000
Speaker 1: talk and their podcasts and on their blogs, the reasoning

192
00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:28,120
Speaker 1: behind why you need to be able to make a

193
00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:32,000
Speaker 1: thousand targeting decisions per hour is pretty obvious. They're obsessed

194
00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:35,280
Speaker 1: with the idea that a future war between the US

195
00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:39,120
Speaker 1: and a peer or near peer adversary, most prominently China, right,

196
00:10:39,559 --> 00:10:42,199
Speaker 1: that's what they're planning on now. The Chinese military is

197
00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:44,640
Speaker 1: also heavily invested in AI. There was a major New

198
00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:46,920
Speaker 1: York Times article earlier this month, in April of twenty

199
00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:51,360
Speaker 1: twenty six, titled Mutually Automated destruction the escalating global AI

200
00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:52,040
Speaker 1: arms race.

201
00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:53,040
Speaker 2: I'm going to quote from that.

202
00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:56,480
Speaker 1: Now. China and Russia are experimenting with letting AI make

203
00:10:56,520 --> 00:10:59,960
Speaker 1: battlefield decisions on its own. Two US officials said China

204
00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:03,040
Speaker 1: is developing systems for dozens of autonomous drones to coordinate

205
00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:06,079
Speaker 1: attacks without human thought will Russia is building Lancet drones

206
00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:08,800
Speaker 1: that can circle the sky and autonomously pick targets, they said.

207
00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:11,840
Speaker 1: Even as the specifics of the technologies remain veiled, the

208
00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:14,800
Speaker 1: intentions are clear. In twenty seventeen, mister Putin declared that

209
00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:18,040
Speaker 1: whoever leads a AI will become the ruler of the world.

210
00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:20,840
Speaker 1: Mister z said in twenty twenty four that the technology

211
00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:24,520
Speaker 1: would be the main battleground of geopolitical competition. In January,

212
00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:27,920
Speaker 1: Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth directed all branches of the US

213
00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:31,960
Speaker 1: military to adopt AI, saying they needed to accelerate like hell.

214
00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:33,280
Speaker 2: Now.

215
00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:35,719
Speaker 1: My interpretation of what I've read from most of these

216
00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:38,600
Speaker 1: guys is that they see future conflict as a massive

217
00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:42,400
Speaker 1: but almost instantaneous chess game. Right, Whoever has the AI

218
00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:45,640
Speaker 1: that can most quickly and effectively sort through their intelligence,

219
00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:49,959
Speaker 1: come up with target packages, and then strike those targets first, wins.

220
00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:50,480
Speaker 3: Right.

221
00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:52,920
Speaker 1: If we can make a thousand decisions and a thousand

222
00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:55,120
Speaker 1: strikes in an hour and they can only make eight hundred,

223
00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:57,880
Speaker 1: then we'll destroy more of them and will win the war. Right,

224
00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:00,480
Speaker 1: It all be decided right at the start. And this

225
00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:02,439
Speaker 1: may well be how a shooting war between China and

226
00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:04,920
Speaker 1: the US would proceed. But given that very few people

227
00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:07,079
Speaker 1: in either country want that war to happen because it

228
00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:09,760
Speaker 1: would kill us all, I think we might do best

229
00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:13,440
Speaker 1: focusing on the war our country is currently fighting, where

230
00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:16,760
Speaker 1: this logic has resulted in a catastrophic failure for at

231
00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:19,840
Speaker 1: least the second time in my life. In two thousand

232
00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:22,200
Speaker 1: and three, the United States invaded Iraq. After more than

233
00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:24,720
Speaker 1: a year of build up, in years of intelligence gathering,

234
00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:27,679
Speaker 1: our military planners put together a list of fifty high

235
00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:30,560
Speaker 1: value targets. The idea was, if we could use our

236
00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:34,360
Speaker 1: incredible super advanced spying equipment and our precision guided weapons

237
00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:36,960
Speaker 1: to wipe out the most important figures of resistance in Iraq,

238
00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:40,560
Speaker 1: we could hobble any response to the invasion. All fifty

239
00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:44,000
Speaker 1: targets were struck, none of the people targeted were killed.

240
00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:46,160
Speaker 1: Now that doesn't mean no one was killed. It just

241
00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:47,840
Speaker 1: means we missed all the people we thought we were

242
00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:51,040
Speaker 1: going to hit. To quote from Kevin Baker's great article, again,

243
00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:53,640
Speaker 1: the targeting cycle had been fast enough to hit fifty

244
00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:55,920
Speaker 1: buildings and too fast to discover it was hitting the

245
00:12:55,920 --> 00:13:01,400
Speaker 1: wrong ones. Fast forward earlier this year, Administration orders the

246
00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:05,120
Speaker 1: launch of Operation Epic Fury and unleashed a nightmare arsenal

247
00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:07,679
Speaker 1: of hyper advanced weaponry on the people and leaders of

248
00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:11,520
Speaker 1: Iran alongside the Israeli Air Force. In the first two weeks,

249
00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:14,760
Speaker 1: US forces hit six thousand targets picked with the help

250
00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:17,480
Speaker 1: of Project Mavin. One of them was the Monob Girls

251
00:13:17,559 --> 00:13:20,440
Speaker 1: Elementary School, which was destroyed by a missile, killing one

252
00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:25,440
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty six and wounding ninety five. Now, Alex Karp,

253
00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:28,720
Speaker 1: the CEO of pallanteers hyper advanced AI and a multi

254
00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:31,840
Speaker 1: billion dollar network of satellites backed up by decades of

255
00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:35,160
Speaker 1: intelligence gathering by the CIA, and the massade wasn't enough

256
00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:37,720
Speaker 1: to drop us from striking a school that we knew

257
00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:40,240
Speaker 1: contained none of our targets. We had data that the

258
00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:42,360
Speaker 1: people we thought were there at one point were no

259
00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:44,920
Speaker 1: longer there, and it was a school now. But some

260
00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:47,319
Speaker 1: of the data Maven relied on was old and outdated.

261
00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:50,440
Speaker 1: And these machines aren't capable of real judgment and the

262
00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:52,800
Speaker 1: way we think of it. And because people trusted them

263
00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:55,880
Speaker 1: so much, no one thought to check before ordering the strikes.

264
00:13:56,440 --> 00:13:59,640
Speaker 1: This is a human error. This is not an AI error,

265
00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:03,000
Speaker 1: but it illustrates a massive law in the fantasy that

266
00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:05,320
Speaker 1: winning a war could be as easy as building a

267
00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:08,679
Speaker 1: smarter machine. Got to be accurate, and it is important

268
00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:10,960
Speaker 1: to note a lot of those six thousand targets were

269
00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:13,520
Speaker 1: what we thought, and they were accurately struck and killed.

270
00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:16,000
Speaker 1: In the opening salvel of the war, President Trump and

271
00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:19,760
Speaker 1: his mouthpieces celebrated their successful assassination of Iron Supreme Leader,

272
00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:23,920
Speaker 1: alongside many other prominent military and governmental officials. This seemed

273
00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:26,240
Speaker 1: at first to be way more successful than the opening

274
00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:28,520
Speaker 1: strikes against a Rock. They didn't get any of those

275
00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:31,520
Speaker 1: fifty guys. We got a bunch of our initial targets

276
00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:33,800
Speaker 1: in this first wave of strikes. Maybe we just didn't

277
00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:36,320
Speaker 1: have the right technology when we invaded Rock. Maybe now

278
00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:39,520
Speaker 1: we're doing it right, you know, finally we'll be able

279
00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:42,960
Speaker 1: to win a war this way. However, that quickly proved untrue.

280
00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:45,440
Speaker 1: All of those strikes put together were not enough to

281
00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:48,520
Speaker 1: break Iran's will or its capacity to fight and fight

282
00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:52,320
Speaker 1: back effectively. Now Donald Trump finds himself trapped in an

283
00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:56,000
Speaker 1: expensive quagmire, one that is already bleeding him advanced munitions

284
00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:59,200
Speaker 1: and equipment while it crashes the global economy. The most

285
00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:02,520
Speaker 1: recent ap the NARC poll, puts Trump's overall approval at

286
00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:05,480
Speaker 1: thirty three percent, which is down five percent since just

287
00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:08,560
Speaker 1: back in March. Only thirty two percent of Americans approve

288
00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:11,680
Speaker 1: of his leadership on Iran. Because most of this country

289
00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:13,800
Speaker 1: can still see a man shooting himself in the dick

290
00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:18,040
Speaker 1: for what it is. Pete Hegsath is our most lethality

291
00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:21,440
Speaker 1: obsessed Secretary of Defense and History, and in him we

292
00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:24,720
Speaker 1: see the result of a long sickness first incubated during

293
00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:27,920
Speaker 1: the Vietnam War, when embarrassed generals needed to spin their

294
00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:30,680
Speaker 1: failure to make progress as a kind of victory, so

295
00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:33,440
Speaker 1: they turned to bragging about how many fighters they had killed,

296
00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:37,240
Speaker 1: inevitably defining many civilian dead as enemy combatants, and bragging

297
00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:40,120
Speaker 1: about the tonnage of trucking that they destroyed based on

298
00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:44,840
Speaker 1: wildly incomplete and inaccurate intelligence. Ever since this calamitous era.

299
00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:48,400
Speaker 1: Informed students of military theory have seen doing body counts

300
00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:51,200
Speaker 1: as the death knell of a military entity's ability to

301
00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:54,360
Speaker 1: make intelligent decisions that move their forces closer to victory.

302
00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:57,840
Speaker 1: But because the entire conservative project in this country is

303
00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:00,800
Speaker 1: built on the thoughtless worship of military pat prowess in power,

304
00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:02,920
Speaker 1: we've seen this kind of thinking trickle down to the

305
00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:06,720
Speaker 1: sarey cadra of influencers who call themselves right wing intellectuals. Today,

306
00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:09,840
Speaker 1: I'm talking about dudes like Matt Walsh and Chris Ruffo

307
00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:12,840
Speaker 1: who've built their reputations on picking targets to drum up

308
00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:16,160
Speaker 1: mobs against and uses the basis of attack ads. These

309
00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:19,560
Speaker 1: people have proven legitimately good at stirring up haate and

310
00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:22,920
Speaker 1: forcing laws all over the country restricting things like drag

311
00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:25,840
Speaker 1: shows or the use of chosen pronouns and government documents.

312
00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:29,960
Speaker 1: All these people are by definition huge assholes, and so

313
00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:33,280
Speaker 1: are their followers, and thus when those people get radicalized

314
00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:37,080
Speaker 1: to take action in their communities, they make those communities worse.

315
00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:40,480
Speaker 1: This pisses off their neighbors, which has resulted in significant

316
00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:44,880
Speaker 1: backlash across the country. As an example, Moms for Liberty

317
00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:47,960
Speaker 1: was formed in Florida on January first, twenty twenty one,

318
00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:51,240
Speaker 1: by Republican activists and former school board members who were

319
00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:55,120
Speaker 1: outraged about pandemic safety protocols and schools. They became a

320
00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:57,960
Speaker 1: vehicle for the parental rights movement, a nebulous and deeply

321
00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:00,760
Speaker 1: toxic force in American political life. It sees the parent

322
00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:02,960
Speaker 1: as a kind of absolute sovereign over the life and

323
00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:05,760
Speaker 1: mind of their child. Any influence that might lead that

324
00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:07,560
Speaker 1: child to become a different kind of person than the

325
00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:11,000
Speaker 1: parent envisions must be pruned away. The group used the

326
00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:13,920
Speaker 1: then fresh moral panic over critical race theory as a

327
00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:17,080
Speaker 1: lever from which to force themselves into American life. In

328
00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:19,440
Speaker 1: June of twenty twenty one, they started filing what would

329
00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:22,520
Speaker 1: become a long series of criminal complaints against books available

330
00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:26,560
Speaker 1: in specific school libraries across the nation. Schools started removing books,

331
00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:29,600
Speaker 1: and Moms for liberty inspired candidates began winning school board

332
00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:32,800
Speaker 1: elections around the country. It looked, for a little while

333
00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:36,200
Speaker 1: like a popular wave of hysterical fear might yank America

334
00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:39,240
Speaker 1: into a Fahrenheit four to fifty one style future, slightly

335
00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:42,240
Speaker 1: ahead of schedule, but just a couple of years later,

336
00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:46,040
Speaker 1: a funny thing happened, Moms for Liberty backed candidates started

337
00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:49,560
Speaker 1: losing major elections, first a series of school board races

338
00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:53,240
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty three in Pennsylvania, Virginia, and Iowa. But

339
00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:56,840
Speaker 1: even as the Biden administration kareemed towards a disastrous new

340
00:17:56,840 --> 00:17:59,040
Speaker 1: election in twenty twenty four, one in which the far

341
00:17:59,119 --> 00:18:02,160
Speaker 1: right seemed to have all the momentum, regular people kept

342
00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:05,639
Speaker 1: rising up and organizing to protect their schools. One of

343
00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:08,320
Speaker 1: the first was karen's Foboda, a mother of seven in

344
00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:11,280
Speaker 1: Duchess County, New York. In twenty twenty three, she told

345
00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:14,680
Speaker 1: NPR reporter Jim Zaroli, I looked into the local Facebook

346
00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:16,720
Speaker 1: page of Moms for Liberty and just browsed through some

347
00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:18,720
Speaker 1: of the social media of some of these individuals, and

348
00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:20,760
Speaker 1: what I saw was very upsetting. As a mom of

349
00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:22,640
Speaker 1: kids who were members of that community, it was very

350
00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:24,560
Speaker 1: concerning to think that these people would be trying to

351
00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:26,520
Speaker 1: get onto the school board, because what does that mean

352
00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:29,560
Speaker 1: for my kids? So she started a group of her own,

353
00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:34,000
Speaker 1: Defensive Democracy, which organized like minded parents in her community

354
00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:37,000
Speaker 1: to warn each other about Moms for Liberty. It defeated

355
00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:39,840
Speaker 1: an entire slate of Moms for Liberty backed candidates in

356
00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:42,920
Speaker 1: twenty twenty three, all with the infrastructure of a Facebook

357
00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:46,560
Speaker 1: page and weekly zoom calls. And the really remarkable thing

358
00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:49,000
Speaker 1: is that even while the twenty twenty four election took

359
00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:52,280
Speaker 1: over the national discourse and the Democratic Party completely shat

360
00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:55,800
Speaker 1: the bed, people kept connecting and organizing in school districts

361
00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:59,240
Speaker 1: across the country to fight for their children's educations. In

362
00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:02,560
Speaker 1: November of twenty twi, the Houston suburb of Cyprus, Texas,

363
00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:05,800
Speaker 1: saw Democratic candidates sweep three school board seats and take

364
00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:09,600
Speaker 1: the majority, ending two years of Republican dominance. This trend

365
00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:12,600
Speaker 1: was repeated elsewhere that same month, per a political article

366
00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:16,840
Speaker 1: by Liz Crampton and Madison Fernandez quote in Pennsylvania, Democrats

367
00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:19,000
Speaker 1: slipped at least two dozen school board seats, per an

368
00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:22,360
Speaker 1: ongoing tally from progressive recruitment group Pipeline Fund. The under

369
00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:25,119
Speaker 1: the radar trend was enabled by voters increasing weariness with

370
00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:27,560
Speaker 1: the culture wars that helped the MAGA movement engineer school

371
00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:30,320
Speaker 1: board takeovers and generate hyper local interest in politics as

372
00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:33,800
Speaker 1: the COVID nineteen pandemic raged. In addition to Texas, Republicans

373
00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:36,320
Speaker 1: lost seats in the suburbs of Columbus, Ohio and the

374
00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:39,480
Speaker 1: national battleground of Pennsylvania the result of well funded campaigns

375
00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:44,080
Speaker 1: orchestrated by local leaders. Now, one of my favorite details

376
00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:45,639
Speaker 1: from that piece is a quote from one of the

377
00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:49,080
Speaker 1: new school board members, Leslie Gilmart, who stated, folks just

378
00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:52,280
Speaker 1: wanted their school boards to be boring again. They wanted normalcy.

379
00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:55,920
Speaker 1: Once the board was taken over by a superpartisan, extremist majority,

380
00:19:56,119 --> 00:20:00,600
Speaker 1: folks across the political spectrum were dismayed. Now, I continue

381
00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:02,280
Speaker 1: to be an advocate of the thought that Tim Walls

382
00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:04,800
Speaker 1: might have made a more effective vice presidential candidate if

383
00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:07,639
Speaker 1: he'd kept calling the Republicans out for being freaks because

384
00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:10,159
Speaker 1: they are. Their obsession with the lives and behavior of

385
00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:13,200
Speaker 1: their fellow citizens and their naked slavering need to control

386
00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:15,640
Speaker 1: their neighbors is upsetting, an unnatural.

387
00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:17,200
Speaker 2: The way I see.

388
00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:19,679
Speaker 1: It, we're in a time of incredible opportunity right now.

389
00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:21,840
Speaker 1: The devil has played his hand and wound up slipping

390
00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:24,040
Speaker 1: on a puddle of his own flop sweat along the way.

391
00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:27,400
Speaker 1: The momentum is with anyone but these fucks, at least

392
00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:30,040
Speaker 1: right now, which is why a bunch of tertiary Trump

393
00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:33,560
Speaker 1: supporters like Tucker Carlson have been cutting bait. Donald did

394
00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:36,240
Speaker 1: the thing fascists off and do. He kept reaching until

395
00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:38,360
Speaker 1: he reached for something that exceeded his grasp.

396
00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:39,199
Speaker 3: Now.

397
00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:40,879
Speaker 1: I don't know what's going to happen next in our

398
00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:44,080
Speaker 1: absolutely unnecessary struggle with Iran. I think there's a non

399
00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:47,000
Speaker 1: zero chance Trump tries to extricate our forces save for

400
00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:49,840
Speaker 1: some token s is rule, won't say we abandon them,

401
00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:53,200
Speaker 1: and tries to take out the Cuban government next. Falso possible,

402
00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:56,520
Speaker 1: Wh'll escalate the violence against Iran in some massive, apocalyptic,

403
00:20:56,600 --> 00:21:00,000
Speaker 1: hideous way. In either case, the human cost will be nightmare,

404
00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:02,840
Speaker 1: But either action would just be the flailing of a

405
00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:05,800
Speaker 1: busted gambler putting everything he has on a fantasy that

406
00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:08,600
Speaker 1: Americans want to see foreign enemies broken while they can't

407
00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:11,840
Speaker 1: afford to fill their car at home. Every poll of

408
00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:14,280
Speaker 1: the American people seems to suggest that most of us

409
00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:18,400
Speaker 1: as a pretty low appetite for unnecessary wars. Outside of Florida,

410
00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:20,440
Speaker 1: it's hard to find regular people who are scared of

411
00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:23,159
Speaker 1: the Cuban government. The idea that they represent any kind

412
00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:25,720
Speaker 1: of threat to folks in Michigan or Kansas is absurd

413
00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:30,119
Speaker 1: on its face. The further Trump reaches, the angrier people get.

414
00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:33,760
Speaker 1: Fascist governments rely on the complicity of the masses even

415
00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:37,520
Speaker 1: more than their enthusiastic support. And many Americans have proven

416
00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:40,320
Speaker 1: themselves unwilling to be complicit in most of what the

417
00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:43,920
Speaker 1: Heritage Foundation and their friends want for this country. And

418
00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:45,840
Speaker 1: that's a nice note to roll to ads on.

419
00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:56,840
Speaker 2: We're back.

420
00:21:57,600 --> 00:21:59,480
Speaker 1: If you want a direct example of how weak the

421
00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:02,240
Speaker 1: cultural conservatives are right now, think back to the stunt

422
00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:05,440
Speaker 1: President Trump pulled with door dasherler in April. He ordered

423
00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:07,920
Speaker 1: several bags and had them delivered by a dasher who

424
00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:10,520
Speaker 1: was there to get photographed praising the president's no tax

425
00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:14,000
Speaker 1: on tips policy. While they were standing outside the Oval office,

426
00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:16,560
Speaker 1: Trump asked the dasher if they thought trans women should

427
00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:19,320
Speaker 1: be allowed to compete in women's sports. And the dasher

428
00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:22,200
Speaker 1: in question was fifty eight year old Sharon Simmons, who

429
00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:24,399
Speaker 1: was a I Mean, it's been widely reported, is a

430
00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:27,280
Speaker 1: Republican activist. She'd previously spoken out in favor of the

431
00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:29,200
Speaker 1: no tax on tips policy at the House Ways and

432
00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:32,280
Speaker 1: Means Committee field hearing, and even when she was under

433
00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:35,119
Speaker 1: the gun next to the President, Simmons wasn't willing to

434
00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:38,000
Speaker 1: agree with him on the weird anti trans stuff. She replied,

435
00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:40,840
Speaker 1: I don't really have an opinion on that, and I'm

436
00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:42,440
Speaker 1: not here to call her a hero for that.

437
00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:42,919
Speaker 2: She's not.

438
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:46,040
Speaker 1: But it shows a crack in the rhetorical wall these

439
00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:49,399
Speaker 1: people have built for themselves. A Republican can't just support

440
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:51,360
Speaker 1: low taxes. Now they have to endorse a whole raft

441
00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:55,280
Speaker 1: of psychotic vengeance politics and anti scientific views that are

442
00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:58,160
Speaker 1: deeply alienating to anyone who has a chance of being

443
00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:02,320
Speaker 1: called normalcushion of life after Trump nowadays has to include

444
00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:04,920
Speaker 1: an acknowledgment of the big, lurking question of our age

445
00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:07,520
Speaker 1: what if he won't give up power? And that's a

446
00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:10,040
Speaker 1: bigger question than the just Trump. A large number of

447
00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:13,520
Speaker 1: government officials, of elected leaders, military officers, and law enforcement

448
00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:16,639
Speaker 1: officers have implicated themselves in the crimes and what we

449
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:20,160
Speaker 1: might call the oughta be crimes of this administration. It's

450
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:22,720
Speaker 1: not unreasonable to ask what if they won't leave power

451
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:25,240
Speaker 1: without a fight? And I don't have a comprehensive answer

452
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:27,280
Speaker 1: for you that I feel comfortable putting in the last

453
00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:29,920
Speaker 1: couple of pages of a podcast script, but I will

454
00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:31,800
Speaker 1: point out that just In the last month. As I

455
00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:35,679
Speaker 1: write this, Victor Orbon and his entire political movement faced

456
00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:40,040
Speaker 1: sweeping defeat at the polls. Orbon had been previously referred

457
00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:42,840
Speaker 1: to as a quasi dictatorial figure. He was the leader

458
00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:45,320
Speaker 1: of the Hungarian government, and he had led a massive

459
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:47,679
Speaker 1: right wing crack down the detacked schools that attacked the

460
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:51,200
Speaker 1: LGBT movement, and that became a major funder for much

461
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:53,239
Speaker 1: of our own right wing movement. It's come out that

462
00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:56,160
Speaker 1: the Orbon government was sending money helping to fund Sea Pack.

463
00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:59,359
Speaker 1: They were sending money to specific right wing influencers like

464
00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:02,560
Speaker 1: Rod Dreyer. And despite the fact that Orbon was the

465
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:04,840
Speaker 1: guy that people like Tucker Carlson a couple years ago

466
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:07,879
Speaker 1: was saying, this is the future of American politics, Orbanism

467
00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:10,920
Speaker 1: is what we want. Despite that fact, when they lost

468
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:14,439
Speaker 1: an election, he and his cronies back down without a fight. Now,

469
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:17,800
Speaker 1: ultimately they did this because they still think they're bulletproof.

470
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:19,000
Speaker 2: Right, We've got enough people in.

471
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:22,000
Speaker 1: The government that we can stop Peter Magyar, the new guy,

472
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:25,920
Speaker 1: from doing any damage to us right and thus temporarily

473
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:29,320
Speaker 1: leaving power is an acceptable sacrifice because that lets us

474
00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:30,840
Speaker 1: avoid a civil war and the rest of the EU

475
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:32,679
Speaker 1: who won't look kindly on that. I'm sure that's a

476
00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:35,280
Speaker 1: lot of their thinking. And obviously the US is in

477
00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:38,520
Speaker 1: a very different position geopolitically. But the rapidity with which

478
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:41,679
Speaker 1: some former Trump stalwarts like Marjorie Taylor Green and Alex

479
00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:46,200
Speaker 1: Jones and Tucker Carlson have abandoned MAGA suggests one thing.

480
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:49,520
Speaker 1: They think it's more personally profitable for them to not

481
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:52,639
Speaker 1: be seen standing next to the president or the MAGA

482
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:56,080
Speaker 1: movement right now. And here's more good news. Remember how

483
00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:59,120
Speaker 1: basically every social network is now owned by an openly evil,

484
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:00,159
Speaker 1: right wing billionaire.

485
00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:00,639
Speaker 2: Well.

486
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:03,679
Speaker 1: Americans have responded to this by discarding social media and

487
00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:06,840
Speaker 1: ever growing numbers. This has been about one of the

488
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:09,520
Speaker 1: most consequential shifts of the last few years, and just

489
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:12,720
Speaker 1: this week, University of Amsterdam professor Peter Tornberg published a

490
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:15,359
Speaker 1: study on shifts in US social media use from twenty

491
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:19,600
Speaker 1: twenty to twenty twenty four. Quote online platform reached aclinent,

492
00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:22,359
Speaker 1: driven by growth in the share of Americans, especially the

493
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:25,359
Speaker 1: youngest and oldest cohorts who report using no social media.

494
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:28,920
Speaker 1: Visiting and posting activity on Twitter, slash x, and Facebook

495
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:32,159
Speaker 1: have fallen by nearly fifty percent since twenty twenty, with

496
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:35,240
Speaker 1: the decline on Twitter x driven primarily by reduced participation

497
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,880
Speaker 1: among democratic users. Now, this is broadly speaking a good

498
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:41,240
Speaker 1: thing for the mental health of Americans overall and for

499
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:44,000
Speaker 1: the future of our body politic but the Americans who

500
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:47,080
Speaker 1: remain in social media aren't all doing so hot. Over

501
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:50,160
Speaker 1: the same time period, traffic on Twitter and Facebook grew

502
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:53,879
Speaker 1: markedly more right wing as both sites shrank. In his paper,

503
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:58,919
Speaker 1: Tornberg warns as casual users disengaged while polarized partisans remained vocal,

504
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:03,560
Speaker 1: online discourse comes narrower and more ideologically extreme, or in

505
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:07,320
Speaker 1: other words, as the algorithms that govern what gets seen

506
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:11,720
Speaker 1: on these shrinking social media sites reward more extreme content.

507
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:15,320
Speaker 1: Less extreme users leave, and the ones who succeed and

508
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:18,480
Speaker 1: become more widely shared are the most extreme. It's, you know,

509
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 1: another extremeophile kind of situation. Part of why the people

510
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:24,919
Speaker 1: near Trump all believe they're winning is they live in

511
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:27,240
Speaker 1: these same Internet fever swamps, and they've gotten used to

512
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:28,960
Speaker 1: the Internet mattering a lot more than.

513
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:29,760
Speaker 2: It does right now.

514
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:31,920
Speaker 1: I don't mean to suggest that what happens online is

515
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:34,879
Speaker 1: an important but that importance has been softened by the

516
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:38,160
Speaker 1: sheer deluge of AI, slop, spam, and weird right wing

517
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:41,160
Speaker 1: propaganda that we've been forcibly drowned in for years. Less

518
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:43,440
Speaker 1: people are using these things than they used to, which

519
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:46,640
Speaker 1: means their reach has declined because people find them off

520
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:51,200
Speaker 1: putting and gross. The data shows that folks, particularly over

521
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:53,720
Speaker 1: sixty five and under twenty four, are increasingly fed up

522
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 1: with not just social media, but the whole state of

523
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:59,160
Speaker 1: affairs we've been locked in politically. In the recent Virginia

524
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:03,960
Speaker 1: governor's Racemocrat Abigail Spanberger won by a comfortable margin. Republicans

525
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:06,399
Speaker 1: devoted a huge amount of their budget against her to

526
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:10,080
Speaker 1: anti trans attack ads, writing high off their inaccurate belief

527
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:12,919
Speaker 1: that anti trans propaganda had one trump the reelection in

528
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 1: twenty twenty four, but only four percent of voters in

529
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:20,000
Speaker 1: that election listed transgender policies as a top issue. Now,

530
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 1: that alone might just point to the overwhelming impulse towards

531
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:25,840
Speaker 1: centrism shared by much of the American middle class. People

532
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:29,200
Speaker 1: don't like to stand out, particularly as a political radical.

533
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:32,640
Speaker 1: But a year after Spanberger's election, a majority of Virginia

534
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:36,439
Speaker 1: voters approved a radical redistricting measure. This was entirely framed

535
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 1: as a response to the Republican party fighting for their

536
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:41,960
Speaker 1: right to redistrict several states in their favor. The usual

537
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:44,760
Speaker 1: chorus of voices piped up to say, Oh, I don't know, guys,

538
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:47,320
Speaker 1: we shouldn't do the same thing they keep doing in

539
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:51,080
Speaker 1: order to defend ourselves. That doesn't seem fair. And this time,

540
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:55,720
Speaker 1: thank goodness, most people ignored them. The controversial measure outperformed

541
00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:59,480
Speaker 1: Kamala Harris by eight points. And yes, the federal judge

542
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:02,679
Speaker 1: did immediately rule the measure unconstitutional, but you know how

543
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 1: these things go. We're off to a series of court

544
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:07,400
Speaker 1: battles now, and however those end up. Two useful things

545
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:10,160
Speaker 1: have been accomplished. The liberal majority of a state has

546
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:12,719
Speaker 1: banded together to fight the Republicans on their own terms,

547
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 1: and a clear message has been sent to those same

548
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:18,280
Speaker 1: people that Republicans benefit from a different set of laws

549
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 1: than democrats. Now, any anarchist or left as political organizer

550
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:25,280
Speaker 1: you've ever known would have told you the right wing

551
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:27,800
Speaker 1: always benefits from an interpretation of the law that she

552
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:30,679
Speaker 1: shucks seems to deny their opponents the right to do

553
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:33,640
Speaker 1: the same things in self defense. It's bad that things

554
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:35,879
Speaker 1: work this way, But good for rank and file liberals

555
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 1: to be reminded of that reality. If it weren't, the

556
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:41,560
Speaker 1: current gatekeepers of our news media wouldn't be rallying so

557
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 1: hard against this measure. The same day I wrote all

558
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 1: of this, the Washington Post published an opinion column by

559
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 1: Theodore Johnson titled Why Virginia went back on its word.

560
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 1: It opens with a particularly idiotic paragraph. Partisanship died its

561
00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:59,320
Speaker 1: best impression of democracy in Virginia. On Tuesday, voters approved

562
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 1: a referendum permitting the state's congressional districts to be redrawn

563
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:05,920
Speaker 1: to help Democrats win four additional seats. It's retaliation to

564
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 1: recent redistricting by Texas to hand Republicans five more seats.

565
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:11,160
Speaker 1: At the best of President Donald Trump. It's a red

566
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:14,280
Speaker 1: versus Blue tit for tat over who can jerrymander more efficiently?

567
00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 1: A necessary evil, the parties say, to protect democracy. It's

568
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:22,160
Speaker 1: actually not necessarily I mean, not that it's a necessary evil.

569
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:24,440
Speaker 1: The parties say. It's that one party was already doing

570
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 1: this for years. The Republicans and you didn't speak up

571
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:31,120
Speaker 1: the Washington Posts. You know, this guy didn't write the

572
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:33,640
Speaker 1: same column when this shit's been happening in other states.

573
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:36,480
Speaker 1: He only does it when Democrats do it in Virginia, right,

574
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:39,560
Speaker 1: And I also might point out to a majority of

575
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:42,160
Speaker 1: voters approving a measure is democracy. You know, if your

576
00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 1: only concern is the overall health of democracy, Redistricting that

577
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:48,840
Speaker 1: favors democrats really corrects a structural imbalance in our political

578
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:52,120
Speaker 1: system that favors loosely populated rural areas with an unfair

579
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:55,160
Speaker 1: proportion of political power and marginalizes the greater number of

580
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,920
Speaker 1: citizens who live in urban areas and tend to vote Democrat. Anyway,

581
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:01,320
Speaker 1: there are other good reasons to see hope for a

582
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 1: fierce swing in American politics, not merely back to the middle,

583
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:07,040
Speaker 1: but far to the left. Simply as a matter of

584
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 1: practical necessity, the Republicans have spent their time and power

585
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:13,440
Speaker 1: gutting the Parks Department, the Post Office, the VA, the FAA,

586
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 1: and every other useful part of our state structure. And

587
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:18,120
Speaker 1: this is a big part of what's radicalized people, because

588
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:20,600
Speaker 1: they've very quickly come to notice that things are missing

589
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 1: and shit is not working right. For decades, the government

590
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:26,680
Speaker 1: has been the enemy to millions of Americans who went

591
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:29,240
Speaker 1: out in the world and relied on government services every

592
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:32,480
Speaker 1: day of their lives, and yes, that's irritating and unfair,

593
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 1: and no, we don't have time to fix that up

594
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:37,480
Speaker 1: right now. What we can do is use the fact

595
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:39,920
Speaker 1: that the Republicans broke all these systems to point out

596
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:43,160
Speaker 1: to people, actually, you don't hate it when the government

597
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 1: does stuff, You just hate the way Republicans run the government.

598
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 1: And the fact that the Democrats have usually been too

599
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:53,000
Speaker 1: scared to push for policies as extreme as they need to.

600
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:55,880
Speaker 1: Right this is an opportunity to convince a lot of people,

601
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 1: oh shit, paying taxes to support a vibrant civil society

602
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:02,480
Speaker 1: with the extensive and functional infrastructure is a lot better

603
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:04,840
Speaker 1: than letting big balls de leete half of civil service,

604
00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 1: right like. That's I think the opportunity we have right now,

605
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 1: and pushing that basic line on as many Americans as

606
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:13,760
Speaker 1: possible in the next two years is I think one

607
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:15,960
Speaker 1: of the most important things we can do at the moment.

608
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:18,640
Speaker 1: Along with that, we need to keep building support for

609
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:22,240
Speaker 1: enforcement of consequences against the cadra of billionaires and their

610
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 1: lackeys who have been robbing our shared heritage blind this

611
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:27,640
Speaker 1: whole while. If I had my way about it, I'd

612
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:29,760
Speaker 1: point out to people that there are an awful lot

613
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:32,239
Speaker 1: of billionaires who we knew colluded to take over the

614
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:35,280
Speaker 1: federal government put something like Elon Musk's doge in place.

615
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 1: You can just see that in some of the texts

616
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:40,640
Speaker 1: between Mark Zuckerbergeting and Elon Musk. These people are enemies

617
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:42,920
Speaker 1: of the state with an awful lot of money that

618
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:45,920
Speaker 1: we could confiscate to do things like replace the books

619
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:49,120
Speaker 1: Moms for Liberty tore out of public libraries. Now, we

620
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:51,440
Speaker 1: also need to see consequences for the criminals who have

621
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:53,840
Speaker 1: weaponized the organs of the state to fight their war

622
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 1: against transgender Americans. This is an issue you can, in fact,

623
00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:01,640
Speaker 1: get centrist voters to support. The average swing voter may

624
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:04,520
Speaker 1: not be particularly woke on gender theory, but they don't

625
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:07,120
Speaker 1: like seeing the government bully people who are just trying

626
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:10,240
Speaker 1: to get by. The widespread suffering created by the MAGA

627
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:14,440
Speaker 1: movement also creates potential for widespread solidarity between its victims.

628
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:17,800
Speaker 1: If the midterms go badly for the GOP and the

629
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:20,640
Speaker 1: twenty twenty eight elections go even worse, the USA's new

630
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 1: elected officials and surviving citizens will find themselves in the

631
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:27,080
Speaker 1: same situations. The man who just unseated Victor Orbon and

632
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 1: his supporters, we all learned how temporary a victory can be.

633
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:33,760
Speaker 1: After twenty twenty four, I've seen more than a few

634
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:36,880
Speaker 1: comments online by liberals who decided Orbon's defeat was a

635
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:39,680
Speaker 1: good time to attack a straw man caricature of a leftist,

636
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 1: and these posts were generally laughing at this idea that

637
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:45,480
Speaker 1: a lot of people on the left express that electoralism

638
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:48,960
Speaker 1: can't defeat fascism. Now, I do share a frustration with

639
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:51,720
Speaker 1: the blanket rejection of electoral politics that some people on

640
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:55,400
Speaker 1: the left champion, but every online and real life lefty

641
00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:58,600
Speaker 1: that I know was thrilled to see Orbonde get the boot. However,

642
00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 1: they all did share a fear us. This one fear

643
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:03,640
Speaker 1: that I've seen in common with every analyst and expert

644
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:06,640
Speaker 1: on Hungarian politics that I've read, which is winning the

645
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:09,920
Speaker 1: election isn't going to be enough for Magyar Orbon is

646
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:13,240
Speaker 1: an extremist, someone who took power because things were extremely

647
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:16,000
Speaker 1: shitty in Hungary and voters got angry enough to vote

648
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:18,640
Speaker 1: for a guy who promised to burn things down. They

649
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:21,600
Speaker 1: did come to regret that, but things are still extremely

650
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:25,080
Speaker 1: bad in Hungary. Joe Biden was a moderate who tried

651
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 1: to govern in an environment of raging extremes. His promise

652
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:31,080
Speaker 1: was that he would bring things back to the normal

653
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:33,960
Speaker 1: of the Obama era. He failed to do that because

654
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 1: it's impossible, and his failure opened up the way for

655
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:39,240
Speaker 1: Trump two point zero. If we don't want to repeat

656
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 1: that cycle, the failures and ultimate collapse of the MAGA

657
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 1: movement have to be met with new strategies, new tactics,

658
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:48,480
Speaker 1: and new politics as we seek to fill the void

659
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:51,720
Speaker 1: that they're going to leave behind. I wrote and recorded

660
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 1: the first draft of this piece, as I said earlier,

661
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:56,200
Speaker 1: just a few days before, a gunman stormed into the

662
00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:59,520
Speaker 1: Correspondence dinner. His manifesto has made it clear that he

663
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 1: wanted to arm the President and members of his cabinet.

664
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:05,440
Speaker 1: Within hours, his social media accounts were archived and his

665
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:08,440
Speaker 1: life was put under a microscope, as it always happens

666
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:11,760
Speaker 1: with gunmen these days. All of this revealed a liberal man,

667
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:16,080
Speaker 1: one who had previously expressed very common centrist opinions, including

668
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 1: a dislike of firearms. I've seen this used by people

669
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:23,240
Speaker 1: to justify a conspiratorial narrative that immediately followed the attack.

670
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:25,840
Speaker 1: This guy is a perfect patsy. Obviously they cooked this

671
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:27,879
Speaker 1: up in a lab as an excuse to crack down

672
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:30,799
Speaker 1: on Democrats. I don't believe that, and here is not

673
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:32,399
Speaker 1: a place for an argument as to why.

674
00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:32,680
Speaker 2: Again.

675
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:35,000
Speaker 1: We'll talk about that, I'm sure later this week. What

676
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:37,400
Speaker 1: is interesting to me is that before any of this happened,

677
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:39,440
Speaker 1: I had been planning to revise the ending of this

678
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 1: episode by commenting on an article that came out in

679
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:45,600
Speaker 1: April of twenty twenty five. It's published by Oxios and

680
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:48,680
Speaker 1: the title was Democrats told to get shot for the

681
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:52,000
Speaker 1: anti Trump resistance. Here's a quote from that article. At

682
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:53,839
Speaker 1: town halls in their districts and in one on one

683
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:57,040
Speaker 1: meetings with constituents and activists, Democratic members of Congress are

684
00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:59,400
Speaker 1: facing and growing thrum of demands to break the rules,

685
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:02,680
Speaker 1: fight dirty, and not be afraid to get hurt. One

686
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:04,880
Speaker 1: of the lawmakers that they talked to for that article

687
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:07,239
Speaker 1: related a conversation that he'd had in a meeting with

688
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:07,960
Speaker 1: a constituent.

689
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:08,600
Speaker 2: Quote.

690
00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:10,800
Speaker 1: I actually said in a meeting, when they light a fire,

691
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:13,400
Speaker 1: my thought is grab an extinguisher. And someone at the

692
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:19,040
Speaker 1: table said, have you tried gasoline? So many regular Liberals

693
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:22,600
Speaker 1: are embracing extreme rhetoric and measures today because they know

694
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:25,440
Speaker 1: on some level that that's the only way you survive

695
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:28,760
Speaker 1: in an extreme environment. We see this in the thousands

696
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:31,440
Speaker 1: of normies in Minneapolis who have been willing and eager

697
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:34,879
Speaker 1: to confront armed federal agents in bathrobes and risk their

698
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:37,320
Speaker 1: own life and limb to protect their neighbors from ice.

699
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:40,600
Speaker 1: And we've also seen a very dark reflection of that

700
00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:43,960
Speaker 1: in the actions of that gunman last weekend. Now, the

701
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:46,640
Speaker 1: fact that an educated and informed thirty one year old

702
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:49,040
Speaker 1: man decided to buy a firearm that he hated and

703
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:52,239
Speaker 1: attack the president represents many failures. One of them is

704
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:54,880
Speaker 1: a failure of the Democratic Party and the Liberal project

705
00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:57,360
Speaker 1: to provide him with anything that felt like a useful

706
00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:01,279
Speaker 1: outlet for his rage and hopelessness. People start talking and

707
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:03,919
Speaker 1: acting like this guy was acting, you can either throw

708
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:06,160
Speaker 1: your hands up and back away, or you can try

709
00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:08,839
Speaker 1: like hell to present them with a counter offer. In

710
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:12,279
Speaker 1: this case, I mean a set of policies, activist campaigns,

711
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:15,480
Speaker 1: and organized actions to make this country a less horrific place.

712
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:19,640
Speaker 1: The victory and wild popularity of Zoran Mamdani is proof

713
00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:21,800
Speaker 1: that you can, in fact do this even in twenty

714
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:26,000
Speaker 1: twenty six. The widespread support for formerly extreme positions like

715
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:31,320
Speaker 1: abolishing ice, taxing billionaires, radically redistricting states, halting the construction

716
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:34,520
Speaker 1: of data centers, and expanding and packing the Supreme Court

717
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:37,320
Speaker 1: are more than enough evidence to show that people will

718
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:39,720
Speaker 1: get in line to back a candidate and a party

719
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:44,680
Speaker 1: who promises radical change. Moreover, everything I've seen lately suggests

720
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:47,840
Speaker 1: that people are starving for a movement like this, Hungry

721
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:50,960
Speaker 1: for their own candidate who feels like Mamdanni, hungry more

722
00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:54,960
Speaker 1: than anything to feel hopeful again. When Oregon Senator Ron

723
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:58,160
Speaker 1: Whiten posted see you at Nuremberg two point zero after

724
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:01,279
Speaker 1: Christy Nome got fired, I watched a coalition of left

725
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:04,480
Speaker 1: wing radicals and centrist dims who never came together over

726
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:08,480
Speaker 1: anything else, express wild glee at the very thought we

727
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:11,440
Speaker 1: can do this. We have the tools, and we have

728
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:14,840
Speaker 1: the opportunity. It's going to take a big old step

729
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:19,360
Speaker 1: into the unknown, but that's our only option besides waiting

730
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:21,440
Speaker 1: until we get another chance to look through the social

731
00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:22,840
Speaker 1: media ar types of a gunman.

732
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:37,480
Speaker 4: So by the time you hear this, the situation may

733
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:41,759
Speaker 4: have evolved in any number of directions. I'm speaking in

734
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:45,160
Speaker 4: the immediate week of the United States and Israel's brutal

735
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:50,200
Speaker 4: invasion of Iran. Thus far, over a thousand have been killed,

736
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:54,200
Speaker 4: including over one hundred school children and the Supreme leader

737
00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:59,080
Speaker 4: of Iran, Ayatolda Ali Kameni. In response to this American

738
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:02,760
Speaker 4: is really aggression, Iran has retaliated by targeting both American

739
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:06,840
Speaker 4: bases and civilian and energy infrastructure in the neighboring countries

740
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:10,560
Speaker 4: that have facilitated American presence in the region. With the

741
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:14,240
Speaker 4: strategically and economically critical straight off home moods in jeopardy,

742
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:18,360
Speaker 4: with France, the UK, and Germany aka the usual suspects

743
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:23,080
Speaker 4: indicating potential involvement, and with the potential Russian and Chinese

744
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:26,239
Speaker 4: involvement also being floated in some circles, it seems to

745
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 4: me that without any formal announcement, the war on the

746
00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:35,640
Speaker 4: world has escalated potentially to a point of no return. Hello,

747
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:39,360
Speaker 4: and welcome to it grappen Here. I'm andrews Age andrewism

748
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:43,200
Speaker 4: on YouTube, and I'm joined again by It's James Hi,

749
00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:46,400
Speaker 4: and how are you doing as well as I can be?

750
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:49,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's about the best we can hope for these days.

751
00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:49,839
Speaker 2: Isn't it.

752
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:52,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, And in a time like this, I want to

753
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:57,319
Speaker 4: take a look back at history, particularly how past US

754
00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:01,959
Speaker 4: interventions have left devastation in their week. Today I wanted

755
00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:05,480
Speaker 4: to look at the fate of Libya, a country still

756
00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:08,040
Speaker 4: dealing with his similar intentions following the end of the

757
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:11,680
Speaker 4: post intervention civil War. So I suppose we should begin

758
00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:15,840
Speaker 4: in mid February in twenty eleven, and the Arab of

759
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:19,640
Speaker 4: Spring was sweeping the Middle East and North Africa. Among

760
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:22,160
Speaker 4: the countries caught up in the fuva against the prevailing

761
00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:25,160
Speaker 4: states was Libya, a North African state ruled for the

762
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:29,040
Speaker 4: previous forty two years by the Colonel Mumar al Gaddafi's government.

763
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:32,800
Speaker 4: Masses had taken to the streets across the country, starting

764
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:36,520
Speaker 4: in Benghazi. The government had some successes in putting down

765
00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:40,279
Speaker 4: the revolt, killing hundreds of rebels and demonstrators alike, and

766
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:44,400
Speaker 4: some failures as the masses managed to hold position. The

767
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:50,520
Speaker 4: people had many motivations Spanish Islamist democratic SI militant to tribal,

768
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 4: to just disaffected against a government intent on its continued survival. Revolutions, uprisings, protests, revolts.

769
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:02,520
Speaker 4: They tend to messy your fears. I'm sure James, you're

770
00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:03,319
Speaker 4: well away of that.

771
00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:04,600
Speaker 3: Yeah.

772
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:08,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's really easy of like outside observers

773
00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:11,840
Speaker 2: or when we're looking back at history to be like, oh,

774
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:15,720
Speaker 2: this revolution was an Islamist revolution, this was a Marxist

775
00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:18,480
Speaker 2: learning this revolution, this one was an anarchist revolution. But

776
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:23,080
Speaker 2: every revolution that I have been at that I have

777
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:29,080
Speaker 2: witnessed happening, it's an everything revolution when it starts and

778
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:32,360
Speaker 2: it later becomes a something revolution. But especially in the

779
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:35,520
Speaker 2: Arab Spring, right like in that time, it was just

780
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:39,640
Speaker 2: like we've had enough of being under the boot of

781
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:44,640
Speaker 2: these regimes and it was extraordinarily heterodox, and that was

782
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:47,600
Speaker 2: quite beautiful in the early days.

783
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:52,040
Speaker 4: Exactly exactly. The heterodox nature of revolutions is really what

784
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:54,600
Speaker 4: I want to drill here, because I think it's it's

785
00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:58,880
Speaker 4: very easy for people to caricaturize and sleep a broad

786
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:01,560
Speaker 4: brush and it's the t or this is and it

787
00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:04,560
Speaker 4: gets to be around people are saying, oh, it's only monarchists,

788
00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:08,359
Speaker 4: it's monarchists and Zionists going out in the streets when

789
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:11,239
Speaker 4: they will protesting when the situation on the ground is

790
00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:12,560
Speaker 4: always more complex than that.

791
00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:15,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe I'll just take a second to address the

792
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:21,240
Speaker 2: annoying campus tendency. I understand that every time the United

793
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:23,800
Speaker 2: States ranged down death on some part of the world,

794
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:27,000
Speaker 2: it's terrible, right, it's sad, as you just said, Andrew.

795
00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:31,120
Speaker 2: In Iran, we've seen a girls' school bombed, not once

796
00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:34,040
Speaker 2: but twice, it seems, right, like what they call a

797
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:39,440
Speaker 2: double tack attack. That doesn't mean that your response has

798
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:42,200
Speaker 2: to be to support the other people who are killing

799
00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:46,480
Speaker 2: those same civilians in that same place. It is possible

800
00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:49,879
Speaker 2: for two things to be bad, and like in Iran, Yeah,

801
00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:53,440
Speaker 2: there is a monarchist opposition. It sucks. I spoke just

802
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:58,720
Speaker 2: this morning to a Kurdish group which is opposing the

803
00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:01,640
Speaker 2: regime in Iran, and they had nothing but bad things

804
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:04,719
Speaker 2: to say about the monarchists. Right, they said, this is

805
00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:08,720
Speaker 2: the PAK write the coast down Freedom Party I'm quoting here.

806
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:11,560
Speaker 2: They do not have a foothold in society to actually

807
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:14,080
Speaker 2: achieve anything. The lies and delusions of a group of

808
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:17,839
Speaker 2: people sitting in nightclubs cannot make any real impact. That

809
00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:19,799
Speaker 2: You're free to use that one next time someone tells

810
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:23,680
Speaker 2: you all the opposition in around its monarchist, it's nonsense.

811
00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:27,520
Speaker 4: Exactly, I mean, just on its face, it's obviously nonsense.

812
00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:32,200
Speaker 4: This notion that these people are high minds. It's hilarious

813
00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:34,280
Speaker 4: as notion that you see popping up again and again.

814
00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:35,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, very orientalist.

815
00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:39,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, anytime people step outside and they have something that

816
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:43,200
Speaker 4: they're upset about, they just get labeled with this one

817
00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:49,040
Speaker 4: broad sweeping ideological monarcha, whether they subscribe to it or not. Yeah,

818
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:51,839
Speaker 4: And even within the ideological monikers, there's always a lot

819
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:57,520
Speaker 4: of nuance and how people understand those ideologies. You know,

820
00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:02,160
Speaker 4: no to Islamists are necessarily not two monarchists ivan a

821
00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:05,360
Speaker 4: necessarily alike, and those are both ideologies that I absolutely abhor,

822
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:06,359
Speaker 4: you know.

823
00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:10,040
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, I don't understand how you can be a

824
00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:14,520
Speaker 2: leftist and spend your life like as such and then

825
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:18,080
Speaker 2: also think that in other parts of the world people

826
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:20,920
Speaker 2: don't want the same things like I believe it is

827
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:25,120
Speaker 2: inherently human, yeah, to want dignity and respect and the

828
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:28,440
Speaker 2: same for others, and to want our communities to govern themselves.

829
00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:30,920
Speaker 2: And I don't believe that it's any less human if

830
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:33,399
Speaker 2: you live in North Africa or the Middle East, or

831
00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:37,120
Speaker 2: South Africa, or an island in the Caribbean or an

832
00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:39,640
Speaker 2: island in a Pacific like I believe it comes from

833
00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:42,360
Speaker 2: our human nature, and so it strikes me as therefore

834
00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:45,239
Speaker 2: obvious that there cannot be a country where people's human

835
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:48,520
Speaker 2: nature is fundamentally distinct and they're all just like knee

836
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:51,400
Speaker 2: jerk monarchists. I wouldn't see the world the way I

837
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:54,359
Speaker 2: see it if I was able to believe that. Yeah.

838
00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:58,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, these movements, they're always composed by the choices and

839
00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:03,280
Speaker 4: actions of sometimes millions of people, each with their own motivations.

840
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:06,759
Speaker 4: And now it's easy, particularly in retrospect, to pick particular

841
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:11,560
Speaker 4: leaders or organizations as representative of them all. That doesn't

842
00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:14,680
Speaker 4: make it so. One of the things that defined the

843
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:17,720
Speaker 4: Art of Spring, as you mentioned it, was its leaderless nature.

844
00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:21,279
Speaker 4: You had new liberals, you had monarchists, you had socialists,

845
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:24,200
Speaker 4: you had most of all, I would say, people without

846
00:44:24,239 --> 00:44:27,640
Speaker 4: any ideological commitments at all. The majority of the human

847
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:31,839
Speaker 4: population is not ideologically committed one way or the other.

848
00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:34,120
Speaker 4: Most people are just trying to live their lives and

849
00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:37,239
Speaker 4: meet their basic needs, and they're submerged in society that

850
00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:41,120
Speaker 4: lends them towards a particular inclination. But that's not set

851
00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:45,000
Speaker 4: in stone. Most people in the Arab of Spring likely

852
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:47,560
Speaker 4: sought just the end of whatever it was they were

853
00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:51,480
Speaker 4: suffering under before. And of course in these kind of incidents,

854
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:55,719
Speaker 4: geopolitical actors will choose to back particular factions, lend them

855
00:44:55,760 --> 00:45:00,439
Speaker 4: creedoms and prominence according to their geopolitical interests, but don't

856
00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:02,839
Speaker 4: give them undue credit. You know, during the Cool War,

857
00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:05,520
Speaker 4: for example, the US would have backed rebellions they believe

858
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:09,200
Speaker 4: benefit them, and vice booths of the USSR backed rebellions

859
00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:11,479
Speaker 4: they thought would benefit them. And even today, the US

860
00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:13,840
Speaker 4: is claimant to care about freedom but has continued to

861
00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:18,360
Speaker 4: work with the Saudis, who infamously invaded Bahrain to crush

862
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:22,239
Speaker 4: the Arab spring that occurred there. At the time, France's

863
00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:25,800
Speaker 4: love for democracy didn't exactly match their offer to aid

864
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:31,800
Speaker 4: Algeria and Tunisia in putting down their own Arab springs. Now,

865
00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:36,200
Speaker 4: as I've been saying quite often pointing out hypocrisy, it's

866
00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:39,520
Speaker 4: kind of a baby's first geopistical analysis, right, none of

867
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:44,839
Speaker 4: these governments have any consistent values beyond their own interests.

868
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:47,480
Speaker 4: But I think it's important to make this kind of

869
00:45:47,640 --> 00:46:04,359
Speaker 4: heterodoxy in movements clear to contextualize what happened next. There's

870
00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:10,840
Speaker 4: another notion that the US intervention is entering these countries

871
00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:15,319
Speaker 4: during these conflicts ahold humanitarian and aims to liberate the

872
00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:20,000
Speaker 4: women or to liberate minorities in that region. The United States,

873
00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:23,080
Speaker 4: like all the cover months, is opportunistic right. It is

874
00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:28,200
Speaker 4: taking advantage of often genuine struggles by people to serve

875
00:46:28,239 --> 00:46:30,799
Speaker 4: its own situation or goals without a care for what

876
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:35,440
Speaker 4: happens those people, either openly intervene in or covidly intervening.

877
00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:39,640
Speaker 4: The most obvious recent example is with the goods in Syria.

878
00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:42,439
Speaker 4: At the time, they were convenient to the United States

879
00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:46,040
Speaker 4: interests until they weren't and they were abandoned. And this

880
00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:49,919
Speaker 4: is especially the case when resources like oil come into

881
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:55,480
Speaker 4: the picture, and Libya is extremely oil rich. So tragically,

882
00:46:55,719 --> 00:46:59,160
Speaker 4: the West saw this uprising in Libya as an opportunity.

883
00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:04,000
Speaker 4: On a timeline and Encyclopedia Britannica. On the nineteenth of

884
00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:08,360
Speaker 4: March twenty eleven, Libya was attacked by the combined forces

885
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:12,440
Speaker 4: of the United States, the UK, and France. These countries

886
00:47:12,560 --> 00:47:15,960
Speaker 4: now condemned Kadafi as an oppressor of the civilians they

887
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:19,000
Speaker 4: were swooping in to say, though for years before the

888
00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:22,600
Speaker 4: UK and France were selling in weapons they, alongside the

889
00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:26,520
Speaker 4: Katari and Saudi allies, took advantage of the protests to

890
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:29,520
Speaker 4: assert their military might. This move was authorized by the

891
00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:33,239
Speaker 4: UN Resolution nineteen seventy three, and NATO would soon take

892
00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:36,880
Speaker 4: command of the operation. While claiming to protect civilians under

893
00:47:36,920 --> 00:47:41,120
Speaker 4: a responsibility to protect doctrine, they bombed them. An allegedly

894
00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:45,640
Speaker 4: humanitarian intervention led to the deaths of tens of thousands

895
00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:49,600
Speaker 4: of a national population of just over six million. Key

896
00:47:49,600 --> 00:47:53,160
Speaker 4: infrastructure was devastated by the Natal Woman campaign and by

897
00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:56,040
Speaker 4: the struggles between the government and the now armed rebels

898
00:47:56,040 --> 00:48:00,200
Speaker 4: of the National Transitional Council or NTC. A quick by

899
00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:03,799
Speaker 4: the way, the NTC appointed themselves as the leaders of

900
00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:07,680
Speaker 4: the movement, and despite the struggle being kickstarted by mostly

901
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:11,920
Speaker 4: working and middle class militants, often of an Islamic orientation,

902
00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:17,200
Speaker 4: the NTC was composed mainly of regime defectors, businessmen and

903
00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:21,160
Speaker 4: exiles who had a broadly pro Western, conservative and free

904
00:48:21,160 --> 00:48:24,520
Speaker 4: market stance. Some of the elements in Gaddafi's government and

905
00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:28,400
Speaker 4: military had defected to the rebels and equipped those previously

906
00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:32,200
Speaker 4: unarmed protesters with firepower, and so up to now we

907
00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:35,759
Speaker 4: only have estimates regarding the civilian death doll infrastructural devastation,

908
00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:41,080
Speaker 4: and arbitrary detentions, disappearances and kidnappings carried out by both

909
00:48:41,239 --> 00:48:45,720
Speaker 4: Progadafi and anti Gaddafi forces, not to mention the Liberate

910
00:48:45,719 --> 00:48:49,160
Speaker 4: targeting of black Libyans and Sub Saharan African migrants by

911
00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:52,400
Speaker 4: rebel forces that took place during and after the twenty

912
00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:56,239
Speaker 4: eleven war, with the claim that they were Gaddaffi's hired mercenaries.

913
00:48:57,200 --> 00:49:00,440
Speaker 4: Many of those Africans attempts to escape were met with

914
00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:03,120
Speaker 4: callous disregard by Europe.

915
00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:07,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, callous disregarded. I mean, there are no words strong

916
00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:10,560
Speaker 2: enough to express the way I feel about the way

917
00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:15,160
Speaker 2: the European Union has treated migrants in Liberated is absolutely

918
00:49:15,200 --> 00:49:19,200
Speaker 2: disgusting and continues to be despicable. Yeah. Have you read

919
00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:20,600
Speaker 2: Sally Hayden's book about this?

920
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:21,560
Speaker 4: No, I haven't.

921
00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:24,680
Speaker 2: It's called My Fourth Time We Drowned. Very good book,

922
00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:28,600
Speaker 2: difficult read, I would say, very much. It's some of

923
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:31,480
Speaker 2: the type of reporting that I try and do myself

924
00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:34,360
Speaker 2: on migration, and that it talks about people, not numbers,

925
00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:39,000
Speaker 2: and its centers migrants as individuals with stories. It's a

926
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:42,279
Speaker 2: great book, but probably not want to read, you know.

927
00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:43,320
Speaker 2: Right before bed.

928
00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:45,799
Speaker 4: I could imagine it sounds heavy.

929
00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:48,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely heavy gooing and so.

930
00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:53,000
Speaker 4: Following steelmates between the pro and Goodafi camps, in late

931
00:49:53,120 --> 00:49:57,280
Speaker 4: spring of twenty eleven, the rebels, assisted by netile forces,

932
00:49:57,400 --> 00:50:01,640
Speaker 4: took Tripoli and toppled Goodaffi's got and the NTC was

933
00:50:01,680 --> 00:50:06,360
Speaker 4: recognized internationally almost immediately as the legitimate government of Libya.

934
00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:10,400
Speaker 4: As Matt will Gress notes in jackbn quote on the

935
00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:13,960
Speaker 4: day Tripoli fell, the New York Times headline the scramble

936
00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:18,160
Speaker 4: for access to Libya's oil wealth begins was telen Libya's

937
00:50:18,239 --> 00:50:21,040
Speaker 4: vast oil reserves, along prized by the West for being

938
00:50:21,080 --> 00:50:24,319
Speaker 4: the largest in Africa and incredibly close to Europe, were

939
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:28,040
Speaker 4: now open to business for foreign investors. As is the

940
00:50:28,080 --> 00:50:31,360
Speaker 4: case with all imperial interventions, the attempts to get profits

941
00:50:31,400 --> 00:50:35,239
Speaker 4: flowing from multinational corporations comes long before any ideas of

942
00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:40,320
Speaker 4: reconstructure such as es central infrastructure projects or insurance services

943
00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:44,040
Speaker 4: end quote. And really up to now that infrastructure has

944
00:50:44,080 --> 00:50:47,120
Speaker 4: not been established, and even access to Libya's oil is

945
00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:49,919
Speaker 4: not yet secured, even though they allegedly managed to loot

946
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:53,640
Speaker 4: some of that oil. In twenty twelve, Nakadafi himself fled

947
00:50:53,719 --> 00:50:56,920
Speaker 4: after the fall of Tripoli, but he was found NATO

948
00:50:57,000 --> 00:51:00,799
Speaker 4: bombed his convoy and he was captured alive, then executed

949
00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:04,840
Speaker 4: by NTC forces in October twenty eleven, after which the

950
00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:08,279
Speaker 4: war was declared over and the ANTC declared Libya and

951
00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:13,600
Speaker 4: Islamic democracy in their constitutional declaration. The NTC estimated thirty

952
00:51:13,880 --> 00:51:17,160
Speaker 4: thousand dead, and a UN report from twenty twelve estimated

953
00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:19,719
Speaker 4: that more than nine hundred thousand people had to leave

954
00:51:19,719 --> 00:51:23,279
Speaker 4: the country since February of twenty eleven. Many were not

955
00:51:23,400 --> 00:51:26,359
Speaker 4: Libya nationals, but more than six hundred and sixty eight

956
00:51:26,360 --> 00:51:29,840
Speaker 4: thousand Libyans also fled, and an estimated two hundred thousand

957
00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:35,480
Speaker 4: people had been internally displaced, continuing without timeline. In twenty twelve,

958
00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:39,440
Speaker 4: the NTC handed power over to the General National Congress,

959
00:51:39,640 --> 00:51:42,879
Speaker 4: or GNC, and despite a formal end to the war,

960
00:51:43,320 --> 00:51:47,160
Speaker 4: Grafi loyalists, local militias, and tribes shaped against each other

961
00:51:47,280 --> 00:51:51,520
Speaker 4: and the GENC. The militias wouldn't disarm. The Graffi loyalists

962
00:51:51,600 --> 00:51:54,480
Speaker 4: continued to fight, and the GNC failed to put forward

963
00:51:54,520 --> 00:51:57,600
Speaker 4: a new constitution, so in twenty fourteen they were ousted

964
00:51:57,640 --> 00:52:01,240
Speaker 4: by the newly elected House of Representatives and in twenty fourteen,

965
00:52:01,600 --> 00:52:04,560
Speaker 4: a second civil war would begin in Libya, with the

966
00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:08,319
Speaker 4: nation split mainly between the House Representatives or HR, with

967
00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:11,880
Speaker 4: its Libya National Army or LNA, based in Tobruk to

968
00:52:11,920 --> 00:52:15,400
Speaker 4: the east, and their rival, made up of mostly Islamists

969
00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:18,919
Speaker 4: from the former gen C with their Libya Dawn Militia

970
00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:22,280
Speaker 4: based in Tripoli to the west. They didn't win the election,

971
00:52:22,800 --> 00:52:25,400
Speaker 4: they didn't consider it legitimate because of its low turnout,

972
00:52:25,719 --> 00:52:28,759
Speaker 4: and they didn't appreciate the amount of former Gaddafi supporters

973
00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:31,080
Speaker 4: in the new government, so they rose up to fight,

974
00:52:31,560 --> 00:52:35,759
Speaker 4: claiming to be the National Salvation Government or NSG. So

975
00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:39,000
Speaker 4: you have the HR and they have the NSG. Beyond

976
00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:42,160
Speaker 4: these two factions, yours had an al Qaeda affiliated militia

977
00:52:42,320 --> 00:52:46,560
Speaker 4: and the Islamic State, both engaged in insurgent struggle around

978
00:52:46,560 --> 00:52:51,640
Speaker 4: the country, sometimes holding entire cities. Eventually, the two governments

979
00:52:51,680 --> 00:52:55,120
Speaker 4: came together to sign the LPA, the Libyan Political Agreement

980
00:52:55,440 --> 00:52:59,120
Speaker 4: to form the Interim Presidential Council and Government of National

981
00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:03,600
Speaker 4: Accord or GNA in late twenty fifteen. With that attempt

982
00:53:03,600 --> 00:53:06,080
Speaker 4: at cohesion didn't really work out, as the U went

983
00:53:06,200 --> 00:53:10,080
Speaker 4: back to GNA, now based in Tripoli, couldn't consolidate power.

984
00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:13,520
Speaker 4: By the end of twenty sixteen, factions affiliated with the

985
00:53:13,640 --> 00:53:17,720
Speaker 4: NSG still resisted the GNA, and the HR, still based

986
00:53:17,719 --> 00:53:21,759
Speaker 4: in Tobrook, refused to endorse the GNA's appointments, so they

987
00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:25,640
Speaker 4: went from having two competing governments to kind of having three,

988
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:28,759
Speaker 4: though the main opposing forces when all the GNA and

989
00:53:28,800 --> 00:53:32,360
Speaker 4: the HR. The JNA was backed by Tihi Qatar and

990
00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:36,360
Speaker 4: the EU, especially Italy and the UN, while the HR

991
00:53:36,800 --> 00:53:41,520
Speaker 4: was backed by Egypt, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, the United Emirates,

992
00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:45,640
Speaker 4: and to some extent, France, who technically recognized the GNA

993
00:53:46,120 --> 00:53:49,160
Speaker 4: but also provided support to the HR for their struggle

994
00:53:49,239 --> 00:53:52,839
Speaker 4: against the Isthmists. The US was also supposed to be

995
00:53:52,840 --> 00:53:56,320
Speaker 4: back in the GNA, but Trump jumped out to praise

996
00:53:56,360 --> 00:54:00,680
Speaker 4: the HR at one point, so the US's position was

997
00:54:00,760 --> 00:54:16,600
Speaker 4: exposed as a lot more ambiguous in practice. Yeah, so,

998
00:54:16,760 --> 00:54:19,280
Speaker 4: the GNA and the HR would keep on struggling against

999
00:54:19,320 --> 00:54:22,080
Speaker 4: each other for control over the central bank and oil

1000
00:54:22,120 --> 00:54:25,799
Speaker 4: companies and territory over the years. By the end of

1001
00:54:25,840 --> 00:54:29,160
Speaker 4: one particularly significant offensive in twenty nineteen, which saw the

1002
00:54:29,160 --> 00:54:33,200
Speaker 4: country's largest oil field brought under HR control. The situation

1003
00:54:33,320 --> 00:54:35,760
Speaker 4: was such that the HR's leverage came from their control

1004
00:54:35,840 --> 00:54:38,480
Speaker 4: over the oil field, and the GNA's leverage was that

1005
00:54:38,520 --> 00:54:41,920
Speaker 4: it was internationally recognized and could legally sell the oil.

1006
00:54:42,560 --> 00:54:46,440
Speaker 4: GNA leader Fayez Al Seraje and HR leader Shalifa Afta

1007
00:54:46,680 --> 00:54:49,919
Speaker 4: seemed to be developing in cooperative relations, and in March

1008
00:54:49,960 --> 00:54:52,840
Speaker 4: or twenty nineteen they were supposed to have a national

1009
00:54:52,960 --> 00:54:58,799
Speaker 4: unity conference, but then the HR tried to take Tripoly whoopsie,

1010
00:54:59,320 --> 00:55:02,680
Speaker 4: so they and I had to put spone in that conference.

1011
00:55:03,520 --> 00:55:06,040
Speaker 4: The resultant fight and led to the hrt in st

1012
00:55:06,440 --> 00:55:09,200
Speaker 4: a major city between the Libya's east and west halves.

1013
00:55:09,760 --> 00:55:13,239
Speaker 4: With Turkish support, the JNA successfully repelled the HR from

1014
00:55:13,280 --> 00:55:16,640
Speaker 4: the Atropoli and situation was stabilized with a battle line

1015
00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:17,680
Speaker 4: just east oft.

1016
00:55:18,040 --> 00:55:23,719
Speaker 2: In twenty twenty, yeah, not just Turkish support, Turkey deployed

1017
00:55:24,080 --> 00:55:29,040
Speaker 2: the Syrian National Army aka the TFSA the Turkish Free

1018
00:55:29,080 --> 00:55:34,960
Speaker 2: Syrian Army. They are widely believed to be rebadged Islamist

1019
00:55:35,120 --> 00:55:39,480
Speaker 2: from previous iterations of various Islamist groups in Syria that

1020
00:55:39,760 --> 00:55:42,640
Speaker 2: Turkey has formed into kind of its own proxy force.

1021
00:55:43,160 --> 00:55:45,040
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm sure if you go to the Wikipedia

1022
00:55:45,080 --> 00:55:48,520
Speaker 2: page there are like seventeen million different war crimes listed,

1023
00:55:48,560 --> 00:55:50,960
Speaker 2: like they are there. They are well known for their

1024
00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:52,240
Speaker 2: affinity for war crimes.

1025
00:55:52,320 --> 00:55:56,439
Speaker 4: Yeah, I can imagine the fact that Turkey Turkey's back

1026
00:55:56,480 --> 00:55:58,480
Speaker 4: and then tells me everything I need to know I.

1027
00:55:58,440 --> 00:56:03,200
Speaker 2: Think, yeah, right, yeah, and that they're considered like a

1028
00:56:03,280 --> 00:56:06,120
Speaker 2: deniable proxy, right, like they could be like you can

1029
00:56:06,160 --> 00:56:08,480
Speaker 2: be like, oh, well that wasn't us, That was these

1030
00:56:08,520 --> 00:56:11,040
Speaker 2: Syrian guys who we happen to arm and equip and

1031
00:56:11,120 --> 00:56:11,840
Speaker 2: run air support for.

1032
00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:15,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, what is the situation now? Now that Turkey is

1033
00:56:15,680 --> 00:56:17,839
Speaker 4: kind of back in the new government in Syria.

1034
00:56:18,040 --> 00:56:22,320
Speaker 2: They have largely been folded into the stg's armed forces.

1035
00:56:22,640 --> 00:56:26,520
Speaker 2: So like Abu Humpsa is I think a general or

1036
00:56:26,640 --> 00:56:29,120
Speaker 2: brigadier I can't quite remember his rank, but as a

1037
00:56:29,160 --> 00:56:34,000
Speaker 2: guy who has been widely condemned is now a military

1038
00:56:34,040 --> 00:56:37,160
Speaker 2: officer within the stg's Ministry of Defense.

1039
00:56:37,800 --> 00:56:42,319
Speaker 4: Huh okay, So a more a great description than would

1040
00:56:42,320 --> 00:56:47,400
Speaker 4: be that Turkey sent their what criminal proxy is to

1041
00:56:47,480 --> 00:56:51,439
Speaker 4: support the GNA in repellent nat or premiature folie. Yeah,

1042
00:56:52,080 --> 00:56:55,200
Speaker 4: and the situation stabilized the battle line just east of

1043
00:56:55,280 --> 00:56:58,399
Speaker 4: thirty in twenty twenty, and after other times to reach

1044
00:56:58,440 --> 00:57:02,400
Speaker 4: an agreement field they agreed to share oil revenue, establish

1045
00:57:02,440 --> 00:57:06,120
Speaker 4: a prominencies fire, and get both Turkish forces and Russian

1046
00:57:06,120 --> 00:57:10,279
Speaker 4: mercenaries out of the country. So the Second Civil War

1047
00:57:10,480 --> 00:57:15,120
Speaker 4: was officially over in October twenty twenty. According to reporting

1048
00:57:15,160 --> 00:57:18,440
Speaker 4: by Al Jazeera. The UN initiated a new attempt at

1049
00:57:18,480 --> 00:57:21,480
Speaker 4: a unifying government in twenty twenty one, which was approved

1050
00:57:21,520 --> 00:57:25,520
Speaker 4: originally by both rival parliament, leading to the establishment of

1051
00:57:25,560 --> 00:57:30,320
Speaker 4: the Interim Government of National Unity or GNU in March

1052
00:57:30,320 --> 00:57:35,160
Speaker 4: twenty twenty one, thus replacing the previously un baked GNA.

1053
00:57:35,440 --> 00:57:38,880
Speaker 4: So we went from GNA to GNU, but then the

1054
00:57:38,920 --> 00:57:42,480
Speaker 4: GNU would be opposed by the HR, which withdrew from

1055
00:57:42,520 --> 00:57:45,520
Speaker 4: the GNU in September twenty twenty one and established the

1056
00:57:45,560 --> 00:57:50,880
Speaker 4: Government of National Stability or GNS in March twenty two.

1057
00:57:51,840 --> 00:57:55,240
Speaker 4: So the GNA was replaced by the GNU, and the

1058
00:57:55,280 --> 00:57:59,240
Speaker 4: GNU was now opposed by the GNS, and thus the

1059
00:57:59,280 --> 00:58:03,360
Speaker 4: country remained split into up to today between the UN

1060
00:58:03,440 --> 00:58:07,160
Speaker 4: back to GNU and the HR slash Libya National Army

1061
00:58:07,160 --> 00:58:10,800
Speaker 4: backed GNS. And in all of this chaos, people on

1062
00:58:10,840 --> 00:58:13,480
Speaker 4: the ground have been suffering they've been suffering human rights

1063
00:58:13,520 --> 00:58:18,200
Speaker 4: of uses, disappearances up to recently, the GNU imposed a

1064
00:58:18,320 --> 00:58:22,720
Speaker 4: morality police, and they even numerous reports about open slave

1065
00:58:22,800 --> 00:58:27,000
Speaker 4: markets in Libya where migrant Black Africans are auctioned to

1066
00:58:27,040 --> 00:58:30,440
Speaker 4: the highest bidder. This is a result of human trafficking

1067
00:58:30,600 --> 00:58:34,480
Speaker 4: and debt bondage, so not exactly the same as chattel slavery,

1068
00:58:35,160 --> 00:58:38,880
Speaker 4: but the experience and racial undertones are all too familiar.

1069
00:58:39,880 --> 00:58:43,240
Speaker 4: The suffering in Libya has also spread beyond its borders.

1070
00:58:44,000 --> 00:58:47,840
Speaker 4: Following Gaddafi's fall, the weapons of his military stockpiles ended

1071
00:58:47,920 --> 00:58:50,440
Speaker 4: up in the hands of militants across the Sahel region

1072
00:58:50,480 --> 00:58:54,240
Speaker 4: of Africa and even in Syria. You'll remember in my

1073
00:58:54,320 --> 00:58:59,560
Speaker 4: episode on the situation in Nigeria, some of those weapons

1074
00:58:59,640 --> 00:59:02,600
Speaker 4: ended up in the hands of Bokoharam and other Islamic

1075
00:59:02,640 --> 00:59:08,560
Speaker 4: militant groups in the region, Pulani herdsman as so on. Tragically,

1076
00:59:09,480 --> 00:59:12,040
Speaker 4: because Libya just cast seem to catch a break at all,

1077
00:59:12,720 --> 00:59:17,960
Speaker 4: September twenty three also saw catastrophic floods devastating the country.

1078
00:59:18,440 --> 00:59:22,040
Speaker 4: The hurricane strong Storm Daniel caused two dams to burst

1079
00:59:22,040 --> 00:59:25,240
Speaker 4: in the coastal city of Durna, which is within Jena's

1080
00:59:25,360 --> 00:59:29,320
Speaker 4: territory in eastern Libyia. The flooding killed at least four

1081
00:59:29,360 --> 00:59:33,400
Speaker 4: thousand people, though potentially even more, left on thousands missing

1082
00:59:33,600 --> 00:59:37,560
Speaker 4: and displaced more than forty thousand others. The nation, still

1083
00:59:37,560 --> 00:59:40,840
Speaker 4: wrought by civil war and still unrecovered from the devastation

1084
00:59:40,960 --> 00:59:43,640
Speaker 4: of the NATO Obomban campaign, surely could have mustered a

1085
00:59:43,720 --> 00:59:47,480
Speaker 4: more adequate response to the tragedy if not for those conditions.

1086
00:59:48,080 --> 00:59:50,760
Speaker 4: In fact, it is theorized that the tragedy could have

1087
00:59:50,760 --> 00:59:54,640
Speaker 4: been avoided altogether because, according to reports by the Middle

1088
00:59:54,640 --> 00:59:58,000
Speaker 4: East Eye, a Turkish company was supposed to reability to

1089
00:59:58,080 --> 01:00:02,600
Speaker 4: field dams, but the their works were reportedly interrupted by

1090
01:00:02,640 --> 01:00:05,520
Speaker 4: the twenty eleven uprising and subsequent civil war.

1091
01:00:06,320 --> 01:00:10,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's always the cost of war that we don't count,

1092
01:00:10,080 --> 01:00:11,760
Speaker 2: right Like, if you look at the twenty twenty three

1093
01:00:11,840 --> 01:00:15,920
Speaker 2: earthquake that killed people in Syria and Turkey, right Like,

1094
01:00:16,880 --> 01:00:20,160
Speaker 2: undoubtedly that would have done a lot less damage if

1095
01:00:20,160 --> 01:00:21,680
Speaker 2: that hadn't been for the fact that war had been

1096
01:00:21,760 --> 01:00:24,120
Speaker 2: raging in those places for so long, So like everything

1097
01:00:24,160 --> 01:00:27,520
Speaker 2: else got put on hold. All the normal infrastructure repair

1098
01:00:27,640 --> 01:00:30,440
Speaker 2: and in such that you would expect had to stop

1099
01:00:30,760 --> 01:00:35,400
Speaker 2: because of that. War that made things like the earthquake worse. Yeah.

1100
01:00:35,560 --> 01:00:38,080
Speaker 4: I don't think the people who rose up against Gaddafi

1101
01:00:38,400 --> 01:00:41,400
Speaker 4: and fought and died back in February or twenty eleven

1102
01:00:41,880 --> 01:00:47,040
Speaker 4: I'd sought this out come. Unfortunately, in a world dictated

1103
01:00:47,120 --> 01:00:52,440
Speaker 4: by the whims of imperiali spowers, this was the end

1104
01:00:53,680 --> 01:00:57,720
Speaker 4: of their actions. I don't want people to get it

1105
01:00:57,760 --> 01:01:02,040
Speaker 4: twisted though, because in the time since, as people have

1106
01:01:02,080 --> 01:01:06,080
Speaker 4: observed the devastation wrought by the civil wars, there has

1107
01:01:06,120 --> 01:01:11,240
Speaker 4: been an effort to most whitewash Kaddafi and to limit

1108
01:01:11,320 --> 01:01:15,000
Speaker 4: our vision of possibilities to a binary of either perpetual

1109
01:01:15,080 --> 01:01:19,360
Speaker 4: Gaddaffi rule on one end or perpetual civil war on

1110
01:01:19,400 --> 01:01:24,200
Speaker 4: the other end. Those are not the only possibilities. So

1111
01:01:24,240 --> 01:01:27,680
Speaker 4: we've discussed the legacy of nature intervention, which deserves condemnation

1112
01:01:28,160 --> 01:01:31,760
Speaker 4: in this episode, and it should be an indication that

1113
01:01:31,960 --> 01:01:34,880
Speaker 4: to the Western invasions and wars not going to liberate anyone.

1114
01:01:35,360 --> 01:01:35,560
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1115
01:01:36,400 --> 01:01:40,320
Speaker 4: But aside from that accurate analysis of Libya since the

1116
01:01:40,320 --> 01:01:43,920
Speaker 4: fall of Gaddafi, I want to bring in some conversation

1117
01:01:44,480 --> 01:01:48,800
Speaker 4: on the man himself in the next episode. Until then,

1118
01:01:49,640 --> 01:01:52,240
Speaker 4: all power to all the people. This has been it

1119
01:01:52,240 --> 01:02:08,720
Speaker 4: could happen here, have been Andre Sage peace, Hello and

1120
01:02:08,760 --> 01:02:12,400
Speaker 4: welcome to it happen here. I am andresige andraism on

1121
01:02:12,480 --> 01:02:14,840
Speaker 4: YouTube and joined again.

1122
01:02:14,960 --> 01:02:16,480
Speaker 2: By James again.

1123
01:02:17,320 --> 01:02:20,560
Speaker 4: Yes, I've noticed a phenomenon I'm not sure if you've

1124
01:02:20,600 --> 01:02:26,720
Speaker 4: noticed it too, where anti imperialists solidarity somehow goes a

1125
01:02:26,720 --> 01:02:32,800
Speaker 4: step beyond opposing imperialist aggression itself and crosses into lionizing

1126
01:02:33,160 --> 01:02:38,040
Speaker 4: or whitewashing the targets of that aggression, or rather the

1127
01:02:38,080 --> 01:02:40,760
Speaker 4: asensible leaders of the target to that aggression.

1128
01:02:41,600 --> 01:02:44,480
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I have noticed this too. It's one of

1129
01:02:44,560 --> 01:02:47,040
Speaker 2: the things that makes me most angry in the world.

1130
01:02:47,320 --> 01:02:50,400
Speaker 2: What's been referred to as the anti imperialism of idiots. Yes,

1131
01:02:50,840 --> 01:02:52,880
Speaker 2: not so relevant now that I used to like to

1132
01:02:52,920 --> 01:02:57,480
Speaker 2: apply the sad test to anybody who claimed to be

1133
01:02:57,520 --> 01:03:00,880
Speaker 2: interested in the politics of liberation. Right if you if

1134
01:03:00,920 --> 01:03:04,520
Speaker 2: you think Bashar Alasad is a based anti imperialist people's

1135
01:03:04,520 --> 01:03:08,840
Speaker 2: socialist hero, then your politics are shit. I have nothing

1136
01:03:08,880 --> 01:03:11,080
Speaker 2: good to say about that. Like, you're an idiot.

1137
01:03:11,520 --> 01:03:15,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, it should be a fringe phenomenon, right, but

1138
01:03:16,120 --> 01:03:18,160
Speaker 4: I haven't seen it get an increase intraction.

1139
01:03:18,960 --> 01:03:21,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, even in like relatively you know, like I won't

1140
01:03:22,200 --> 01:03:26,360
Speaker 2: kind of start a war with various US leftist publications.

1141
01:03:27,000 --> 01:03:29,800
Speaker 2: But I went to pitch some people this last week,

1142
01:03:29,920 --> 01:03:33,840
Speaker 2: thinking like, there is speculation that the United States will

1143
01:03:34,000 --> 01:03:37,200
Speaker 2: once again ally itself with Kurdish groups. So I'm sure

1144
01:03:37,240 --> 01:03:40,040
Speaker 2: it had then planned to once again abandon when that

1145
01:03:40,080 --> 01:03:43,120
Speaker 2: became politically more expedient. But I happened to have some

1146
01:03:43,200 --> 01:03:46,560
Speaker 2: insight into these various Kurtish groups, having spent some time

1147
01:03:46,600 --> 01:03:49,120
Speaker 2: there and having contacts there, And so I went to

1148
01:03:49,160 --> 01:03:52,800
Speaker 2: the website of these various you know, big publications which

1149
01:03:52,800 --> 01:03:55,160
Speaker 2: are left or left leaning or even sort of liberal,

1150
01:03:55,840 --> 01:04:00,040
Speaker 2: and I saw these borderline campus takes on what's happening

1151
01:04:00,080 --> 01:04:04,280
Speaker 2: in Iran. And it's just so so frustrating to me, Like,

1152
01:04:04,320 --> 01:04:07,600
Speaker 2: it makes me so angry that people continue to view

1153
01:04:07,640 --> 01:04:12,480
Speaker 2: the world through this binary Marvel movie lens, which sees

1154
01:04:12,520 --> 01:04:15,200
Speaker 2: it as impossible that two things could be bad at

1155
01:04:15,200 --> 01:04:17,920
Speaker 2: the same time. Yeah, it's infuriating to me.

1156
01:04:18,520 --> 01:04:22,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, And if I was more inclined to conspiracy, I

1157
01:04:23,080 --> 01:04:29,320
Speaker 4: might say that this binary is intentionally constructed, you know,

1158
01:04:29,520 --> 01:04:34,080
Speaker 4: that it's it's by design that the most vocal anti

1159
01:04:34,160 --> 01:04:39,160
Speaker 4: imperiodist voices also just so happened to align themselves with

1160
01:04:39,920 --> 01:04:44,280
Speaker 4: state power. Yeah, and camp is on. But I'm not

1161
01:04:44,600 --> 01:04:46,120
Speaker 4: inclined to conspiracy, so.

1162
01:04:46,640 --> 01:04:49,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, one can make a pretty reasonable argument.

1163
01:04:49,120 --> 01:04:52,560
Speaker 4: For that, right, One could make that argument. Yeah, I won't,

1164
01:04:52,680 --> 01:04:53,400
Speaker 4: but one could.

1165
01:04:55,600 --> 01:04:55,960
Speaker 2: I might.

1166
01:04:57,200 --> 01:05:00,400
Speaker 4: I think one of the best examples of this is

1167
01:05:00,440 --> 01:05:03,240
Speaker 4: this sort of odd obsession that some people have with

1168
01:05:03,760 --> 01:05:07,760
Speaker 4: Colonel Wumar Algadafi. Now, last episode, we spoke about the

1169
01:05:07,800 --> 01:05:12,080
Speaker 4: long term consequences of Western intervention in Libya, beginning with

1170
01:05:12,120 --> 01:05:15,000
Speaker 4: the twenty eleven uprising during the Arab Spring against the

1171
01:05:15,040 --> 01:05:18,440
Speaker 4: forty two year rule of more Markedafi. What began as

1172
01:05:18,440 --> 01:05:21,800
Speaker 4: a broad, largely lead less protest movement was quickly shaped

1173
01:05:21,840 --> 01:05:25,960
Speaker 4: by foreign intervention. In Marshal twenty eleven, the US, the UK,

1174
01:05:26,240 --> 01:05:29,840
Speaker 4: and France launched a military campaign through NATO under the

1175
01:05:30,000 --> 01:05:34,840
Speaker 4: UN mandate to protect civilians. The war toppled Gaddafi, but

1176
01:05:35,080 --> 01:05:40,040
Speaker 4: killed tens of thousands and devastated infrastructure. In the aftermath,

1177
01:05:40,160 --> 01:05:44,760
Speaker 4: Libya fractured into rival governments, militias, and foreign backed factions,

1178
01:05:44,960 --> 01:05:48,240
Speaker 4: triggering yet another civil war in twenty fourteen, and despite

1179
01:05:48,280 --> 01:05:51,480
Speaker 4: a cease fire in twenty twenty, the country remains divided

1180
01:05:51,480 --> 01:05:57,080
Speaker 4: between competing administrations. While ordinary Libyans face instability, human rights abuses,

1181
01:05:57,280 --> 01:06:00,760
Speaker 4: and economic hardship. I think it's fair to say that

1182
01:06:00,800 --> 01:06:04,320
Speaker 4: the NATO intervention was a net negative for the country.

1183
01:06:04,920 --> 01:06:07,560
Speaker 4: But in this same breath, I cannot agree with those

1184
01:06:07,600 --> 01:06:09,960
Speaker 4: who seem to believe that Gaddafi's rule could have continued

1185
01:06:10,000 --> 01:06:13,120
Speaker 4: either that he was some force for good in the country.

1186
01:06:13,760 --> 01:06:16,040
Speaker 4: And in this episode, I really want to get into

1187
01:06:16,040 --> 01:06:19,960
Speaker 4: the y to identify and dissect the actions of the

1188
01:06:20,000 --> 01:06:24,640
Speaker 4: man Kaddafi. According to his biography and en Psycopoedia Britannica,

1189
01:06:24,840 --> 01:06:30,640
Speaker 4: Murma al Kaddafi was born in nineteen forty two near Sirte, Libya.

1190
01:06:30,760 --> 01:06:34,040
Speaker 4: Sixty nine years later, he would be captured and killed

1191
01:06:34,480 --> 01:06:38,840
Speaker 4: in Sirte, Libya. After spending his early years in at

1192
01:06:38,880 --> 01:06:41,880
Speaker 4: tent he graduated from the University of Libya in nineteen

1193
01:06:41,960 --> 01:06:44,640
Speaker 4: sixty three and then graduated from a military academy in

1194
01:06:44,720 --> 01:06:48,320
Speaker 4: nineteen sixty five. In nineteen sixty nine, at the age

1195
01:06:48,360 --> 01:06:51,919
Speaker 4: of twenty seven, Gaddafi pulled off a blood less coup

1196
01:06:52,000 --> 01:06:55,160
Speaker 4: to seize power from King Idris, the First of Libya.

1197
01:06:55,880 --> 01:06:58,760
Speaker 4: For the next four decades plus, he would be the

1198
01:06:58,800 --> 01:07:03,000
Speaker 4: de facto ruler of Libya. Gidraffi was both a passionate

1199
01:07:03,080 --> 01:07:06,760
Speaker 4: Arab nationalist and a Muslim in power, he tried to

1200
01:07:06,800 --> 01:07:11,640
Speaker 4: push both of his ideologies. He expelled Western military forces,

1201
01:07:12,160 --> 01:07:17,040
Speaker 4: expelled remaining Italian settlers and Jewish communities in Libya, nationalized

1202
01:07:17,040 --> 01:07:21,240
Speaker 4: the country's oil industry, banned alcohol and gambling, tried to

1203
01:07:21,320 --> 01:07:24,680
Speaker 4: unify with his Arab neighbors occasionally by attempting coups in

1204
01:07:24,720 --> 01:07:29,920
Speaker 4: their countries, and stood against normalization with Israel. So a

1205
01:07:30,000 --> 01:07:35,280
Speaker 4: very mixed bag. So far. Until nineteen seventy seven, Gaddafi

1206
01:07:35,400 --> 01:07:39,640
Speaker 4: ruled the Libyan Arab Republic, but the culmination of his

1207
01:07:39,960 --> 01:07:43,360
Speaker 4: Cultural Revolution period from nineteen seventy three to nineteen seventy

1208
01:07:43,400 --> 01:07:47,680
Speaker 4: seven would sideline his political and religious opponents, who would

1209
01:07:47,680 --> 01:07:51,919
Speaker 4: begin in to see him as unstable, huboristic, and authoritarian.

1210
01:07:52,480 --> 01:07:56,360
Speaker 4: That period would instead cement Gaddaffi as the sole ruler

1211
01:07:56,720 --> 01:08:00,120
Speaker 4: of what he would rename the Socialist People's Libya and

1212
01:08:00,320 --> 01:08:04,800
Speaker 4: Arab Jamahiria, as recounted in Libya The History of Gaddafi's

1213
01:08:04,840 --> 01:08:08,680
Speaker 4: Pariah State by John Oakes. Jamahiria was a term he

1214
01:08:08,760 --> 01:08:12,520
Speaker 4: coined in his Green Book, likely inspired by Mao's Little

1215
01:08:12,520 --> 01:08:17,280
Speaker 4: Read Book, published during the Libyan Cultural Revolution period. Jamahiria

1216
01:08:17,520 --> 01:08:20,879
Speaker 4: was his idea of a state of the masses governed

1217
01:08:20,920 --> 01:08:25,280
Speaker 4: by people's congresses and popular assemblies. And if it's one

1218
01:08:25,320 --> 01:08:29,200
Speaker 4: thing that makes a political movement, it's empowering. It's slapping

1219
01:08:29,320 --> 01:08:33,280
Speaker 4: the people's and popular label on everything, regardless of any

1220
01:08:33,280 --> 01:08:38,439
Speaker 4: additional context. So they had these democratic local assemblies called

1221
01:08:38,479 --> 01:08:42,559
Speaker 4: basic People's Congresses that met three times a year, and

1222
01:08:42,640 --> 01:08:47,160
Speaker 4: those congresses appointed executive people's committees which did most of

1223
01:08:47,160 --> 01:08:49,640
Speaker 4: the day to day stuff, and above it all was

1224
01:08:49,680 --> 01:08:54,360
Speaker 4: the General People's Congress. This period was simultaneously an effort

1225
01:08:54,479 --> 01:08:59,080
Speaker 4: to encourage popular participation through these congresses while suppressing descend

1226
01:08:59,240 --> 01:09:02,679
Speaker 4: through his control over the secret services. It was clear

1227
01:09:02,680 --> 01:09:05,839
Speaker 4: that Gaddaffi was still in charge even after he stepped

1228
01:09:05,840 --> 01:09:09,160
Speaker 4: down from his formal position as Secretary General in nineteen

1229
01:09:09,200 --> 01:09:14,240
Speaker 4: seventy nine and simply and humbly dubbed himself the brotherly

1230
01:09:14,360 --> 01:09:16,240
Speaker 4: leader and guide of the revolution.

1231
01:09:17,000 --> 01:09:20,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, he gets some of his like hubristic stuff, Like

1232
01:09:21,400 --> 01:09:26,160
Speaker 2: his rhetoric is his outfit. His reference to himself is

1233
01:09:26,240 --> 01:09:30,200
Speaker 2: like you couldn't parody some of it. It is where

1234
01:09:30,240 --> 01:09:32,519
Speaker 2: like the parodies of dictators in this part of the

1235
01:09:32,520 --> 01:09:35,519
Speaker 2: world come from. Is Goaddafi's kind of affect.

1236
01:09:35,640 --> 01:09:39,760
Speaker 4: I guess, yeah, he was a character, Yes, that he

1237
01:09:40,000 --> 01:09:43,599
Speaker 4: was here, he was a definitely a character. Yeah so,

1238
01:09:43,880 --> 01:09:48,799
Speaker 4: I mean, anarchist critiques of democracy are easy to find,

1239
01:09:49,800 --> 01:09:54,439
Speaker 4: and although Gadaffi's Libya is never solely directly democratic, even

1240
01:09:54,600 --> 01:09:58,479
Speaker 4: in his project, you could see some of the flaws

1241
01:09:58,520 --> 01:10:00,960
Speaker 4: and the issues that anarchist of identify guide in this

1242
01:10:01,040 --> 01:10:04,800
Speaker 4: approach to popular power as the congresses, the People's Congresses

1243
01:10:04,880 --> 01:10:10,400
Speaker 4: were poorly attended and easily manipulated. Issues were often raised

1244
01:10:10,720 --> 01:10:14,479
Speaker 4: and rarely resolved, And of course compounding those flaws was

1245
01:10:14,479 --> 01:10:17,639
Speaker 4: the fact that these people's Congresses had no actual power

1246
01:10:18,120 --> 01:10:21,519
Speaker 4: over the things that mattered in Libya, the oil industry,

1247
01:10:22,080 --> 01:10:26,639
Speaker 4: the armed forces, the security services, and foreign policy, where

1248
01:10:26,680 --> 01:10:30,640
Speaker 4: Kadafi and his compatriots still ruled. Gaddaffi decided where the

1249
01:10:30,680 --> 01:10:33,120
Speaker 4: oil money went, and he directed some of it to

1250
01:10:33,200 --> 01:10:36,480
Speaker 4: a great man made of a project that would extract

1251
01:10:36,520 --> 01:10:39,479
Speaker 4: from the ancient and non renewable aquifer under the Libyan

1252
01:10:39,479 --> 01:10:42,639
Speaker 4: desert to supply the course for some more stable water supply.

1253
01:10:43,600 --> 01:10:46,639
Speaker 4: Frustratingly for him, I could assume Kaddafi did not get

1254
01:10:46,680 --> 01:10:50,680
Speaker 4: what he wanted out of the revolutionary people's congresses, so

1255
01:10:50,720 --> 01:10:55,920
Speaker 4: he created revolutionary committees to mobilize the people and safeguard

1256
01:10:55,960 --> 01:11:00,639
Speaker 4: their rule through commandos that answered to Gaddafi directly. These

1257
01:11:00,680 --> 01:11:06,920
Speaker 4: revolutionary committees could arrest counter revolutionaries, establish revolutionary courts, and

1258
01:11:07,120 --> 01:11:11,680
Speaker 4: eliminate enemies of the revolution at home and abroad. The

1259
01:11:11,720 --> 01:11:16,559
Speaker 4: people he called stray dogs. All of this for the people,

1260
01:11:16,680 --> 01:11:18,439
Speaker 4: of course, and for the revolution.

1261
01:11:29,040 --> 01:11:29,320
Speaker 5: So on.

1262
01:11:29,400 --> 01:11:34,240
Speaker 4: People his system had some degree of people power and

1263
01:11:34,280 --> 01:11:39,320
Speaker 4: people voice, but in practice he exercised near total control

1264
01:11:39,640 --> 01:11:43,320
Speaker 4: and suppression of opposition, both within the country and outside

1265
01:11:43,320 --> 01:11:46,800
Speaker 4: the country. The same went for workplaces.

1266
01:11:47,080 --> 01:11:47,599
Speaker 2: Of course.

1267
01:11:48,200 --> 01:11:51,160
Speaker 4: He spoke about worker partnership and power in the Green Book,

1268
01:11:51,600 --> 01:11:54,600
Speaker 4: but it was a state controlled and state distributed economy

1269
01:11:54,720 --> 01:11:58,519
Speaker 4: in Libia, run by oil money, with very few worker

1270
01:11:58,680 --> 01:12:02,800
Speaker 4: run enterprises. There was also no real freedom of organization

1271
01:12:03,040 --> 01:12:06,559
Speaker 4: or strike in Libya, as independent unions were banned and

1272
01:12:06,640 --> 01:12:13,360
Speaker 4: Gadaffi explicitly rejected class struggle despite claiming to be a socialist.

1273
01:12:13,880 --> 01:12:18,120
Speaker 4: So in the Return of Mormon Gadaffi by Tunisian academic

1274
01:12:18,160 --> 01:12:21,880
Speaker 4: hate M. Gussemi, he hadised the cult of personality that

1275
01:12:22,000 --> 01:12:24,720
Speaker 4: was forged over the years of Gaddafi's rule that has

1276
01:12:24,760 --> 01:12:28,479
Speaker 4: resurfaced up to today. His opponents often pointed the good

1277
01:12:28,560 --> 01:12:32,040
Speaker 4: that he did for the country, establishing basic social services,

1278
01:12:32,360 --> 01:12:36,680
Speaker 4: free health, gain, education, howies in and land distribution, accessible

1279
01:12:36,720 --> 01:12:41,120
Speaker 4: loan programs, women's rights and so on, and with that

1280
01:12:41,200 --> 01:12:45,040
Speaker 4: welfare state came naturally some base of popular support for

1281
01:12:45,160 --> 01:12:49,439
Speaker 4: people who had little to nothing before. Other fans of

1282
01:12:49,439 --> 01:12:52,960
Speaker 4: Gadaffi point to what I like to call hype moments

1283
01:12:53,000 --> 01:12:56,400
Speaker 4: and aura. So there was a time when he was

1284
01:12:56,479 --> 01:12:59,400
Speaker 4: in the UN General Assembly and he was supposed to

1285
01:12:59,439 --> 01:13:02,639
Speaker 4: be a short time to speak, and he just went

1286
01:13:02,760 --> 01:13:05,400
Speaker 4: on and on and on and on and on and on,

1287
01:13:06,000 --> 01:13:10,840
Speaker 4: and he tore up the UN chatter hyperments and aura, right,

1288
01:13:11,080 --> 01:13:13,800
Speaker 4: and yeah, that's like something that a lot of people

1289
01:13:13,840 --> 01:13:15,960
Speaker 4: point to. He was also, at one point in time

1290
01:13:16,000 --> 01:13:18,920
Speaker 4: the Chairman of the African Union, and he wanted to

1291
01:13:18,960 --> 01:13:22,479
Speaker 4: keep that position permanently, and he was proposing a whole

1292
01:13:22,600 --> 01:13:25,799
Speaker 4: United States of Africa, like he had a whole period

1293
01:13:26,000 --> 01:13:28,720
Speaker 4: of African solidarity, which we'll get to.

1294
01:13:29,280 --> 01:13:33,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, good, Yeah, His Pan Africanist arc is is fascinating.

1295
01:13:33,680 --> 01:13:39,920
Speaker 4: Yeah. So none of this, however, erases his dark dark side.

1296
01:13:40,120 --> 01:13:43,160
Speaker 4: For one, for all the women's rights that he put

1297
01:13:43,200 --> 01:13:46,160
Speaker 4: forward in Libya. He was not that great to women.

1298
01:13:47,160 --> 01:13:50,240
Speaker 4: The Green Book presents Gaddafi as someone who cared about

1299
01:13:50,240 --> 01:13:54,120
Speaker 4: women's dignity and rights. But even in that book you

1300
01:13:54,160 --> 01:13:58,640
Speaker 4: see a very complimentarist take on women's place in society.

1301
01:13:59,040 --> 01:14:01,280
Speaker 4: It's like, yeah, the equals to men, but also their

1302
01:14:01,360 --> 01:14:04,720
Speaker 4: role is in the household. They're supposed to be mothers

1303
01:14:05,280 --> 01:14:07,960
Speaker 4: above everything else. Yeah, he was like, they need to

1304
01:14:07,960 --> 01:14:11,600
Speaker 4: be mothers, but they shouldn't be treated as property or objects.

1305
01:14:12,000 --> 01:14:13,720
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think he based a lot of this in

1306
01:14:13,840 --> 01:14:16,960
Speaker 2: like his interpretation of Hadi thought the Kuran, like his

1307
01:14:17,160 --> 01:14:20,720
Speaker 2: idea that like there was some kind of divine guidance

1308
01:14:20,800 --> 01:14:21,960
Speaker 2: on gender roles.

1309
01:14:22,040 --> 01:14:22,240
Speaker 6: Right.

1310
01:14:22,720 --> 01:14:25,880
Speaker 2: I've actually seen this in recent days, Like you can

1311
01:14:25,960 --> 01:14:30,320
Speaker 2: go and find harmonised tweets, right, like like Ayatollah Hamani

1312
01:14:30,439 --> 01:14:32,599
Speaker 2: not his son, and like you can see his stuff

1313
01:14:32,600 --> 01:14:34,800
Speaker 2: where he's like you should not mistreat your wife. You

1314
01:14:34,840 --> 01:14:38,200
Speaker 2: can literally find in his timeline on Twitter. Right. He

1315
01:14:38,240 --> 01:14:42,960
Speaker 2: was a big poster and people have somehow attempted to

1316
01:14:43,000 --> 01:14:44,960
Speaker 2: like construe this as like he was a leader of

1317
01:14:45,080 --> 01:14:49,000
Speaker 2: enlightened feminist regime like in Iran, which I don't know.

1318
01:14:49,400 --> 01:14:53,639
Speaker 4: It's benevolent patriarchy. Alough again, Yeah, I like you.

1319
01:14:53,640 --> 01:14:56,880
Speaker 2: You have to be really on a special fucking truth

1320
01:14:56,960 --> 01:15:02,120
Speaker 2: trajectory to convince yourself that that is the case. Like,

1321
01:15:02,680 --> 01:15:07,000
Speaker 2: it takes a remarkable capacity for self delusion to rather

1322
01:15:07,080 --> 01:15:11,439
Speaker 2: than listening to women in Iran, women from Iran, many

1323
01:15:11,479 --> 01:15:13,600
Speaker 2: of whom I have spoken to, to look at the

1324
01:15:13,640 --> 01:15:17,360
Speaker 2: evidence of the killing, for example, with you know, Amini

1325
01:15:17,439 --> 01:15:20,000
Speaker 2: right to be like, I know, I found this tweet

1326
01:15:20,000 --> 01:15:22,920
Speaker 2: from twenty thirteen, so we were good. Here is this

1327
01:15:22,960 --> 01:15:26,120
Speaker 2: is fine. It's just remarkable people's tendency to do that.

1328
01:15:26,840 --> 01:15:29,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's remarkable and stupid.

1329
01:15:29,920 --> 01:15:31,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, stupid It is a good word.

1330
01:15:32,160 --> 01:15:36,280
Speaker 4: Yeah. And going back to Gaddafi aside from that sort

1331
01:15:36,320 --> 01:15:40,840
Speaker 4: of benevolent patriarchy take on women's equality.

1332
01:15:41,520 --> 01:15:41,720
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1333
01:15:41,880 --> 01:15:46,880
Speaker 4: Investigative reporting by anaka Jin also gathered testimony since his

1334
01:15:46,920 --> 01:15:52,400
Speaker 4: fall that alleged his procurement, collusion, and sexual abuse of

1335
01:15:52,479 --> 01:15:57,960
Speaker 4: women inside his compound, heeded by a network of officials. Unfortunately,

1336
01:15:57,960 --> 01:16:00,120
Speaker 4: many of these women are far too a free to

1337
01:16:00,160 --> 01:16:03,719
Speaker 4: come forward even all these years after his death, due

1338
01:16:03,720 --> 01:16:09,919
Speaker 4: to the persistence of prograd Afi sentiment in the country

1339
01:16:10,360 --> 01:16:14,200
Speaker 4: up to today. So not the best for women. What

1340
01:16:14,320 --> 01:16:19,360
Speaker 4: about for Africa, right, his whole pan Africanist are He

1341
01:16:19,479 --> 01:16:23,280
Speaker 4: styled himself as a Pan African who would support the

1342
01:16:23,439 --> 01:16:27,719
Speaker 4: struggles of people like Mandela and would fund infrastructure projects

1343
01:16:27,760 --> 01:16:31,840
Speaker 4: around the continent. But he had a history of attemptant

1344
01:16:31,920 --> 01:16:36,320
Speaker 4: over through governments in Africa and support oppressive ones, including

1345
01:16:36,439 --> 01:16:41,680
Speaker 4: Idi Amin of Uganda and Charles Taylor of Liberia. So

1346
01:16:41,720 --> 01:16:45,560
Speaker 4: his Pan Africanism was never concerned with the freedom or

1347
01:16:45,640 --> 01:16:49,519
Speaker 4: well being of African people. It was I think very

1348
01:16:49,560 --> 01:16:53,240
Speaker 4: much according to his own self aggrandizement.

1349
01:16:54,280 --> 01:16:58,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, didn't He proposed like an African Union, which was

1350
01:16:58,160 --> 01:17:02,640
Speaker 2: more akin to like a United States, like Federal Africa.

1351
01:17:02,280 --> 01:17:04,719
Speaker 4: The United States of Africa. That was his proposal.

1352
01:17:05,080 --> 01:17:07,120
Speaker 2: Fantastic, Yeah, yeah, correct.

1353
01:17:08,240 --> 01:17:12,599
Speaker 4: And as he is proposing this Pan African vision within

1354
01:17:12,720 --> 01:17:17,400
Speaker 4: Libya itself, he was pushing for an Arablivia. Yeah, the

1355
01:17:17,439 --> 01:17:24,080
Speaker 4: Amazek and other non Arab Africans in Libya were mistreated,

1356
01:17:24,280 --> 01:17:26,800
Speaker 4: you know. His vision of an Arab Libya led to

1357
01:17:26,840 --> 01:17:30,720
Speaker 4: this suppression of the Toaregs, the tables and the Amazek.

1358
01:17:31,360 --> 01:17:34,400
Speaker 4: He had policies, as reported in the BBC in New

1359
01:17:34,479 --> 01:17:37,800
Speaker 4: Internationalists aljaz right elsewhere, he had policies that included the

1360
01:17:37,840 --> 01:17:41,760
Speaker 4: bannon of minority languages, the bannon of minority names, the

1361
01:17:41,840 --> 01:17:46,799
Speaker 4: discourageon of cultural expression, and sometimes denying citizenship to groups

1362
01:17:46,840 --> 01:17:50,439
Speaker 4: outside the Arab identity. So naturally, many of these minorities

1363
01:17:50,479 --> 01:17:53,320
Speaker 4: took part in the twenty eleven movement, and after Gaddafi's

1364
01:17:53,360 --> 01:17:58,960
Speaker 4: fall there was a revival of language, cultural institutions and publications. However,

1365
01:17:59,000 --> 01:18:01,799
Speaker 4: the NTC and these that followed have continued to ignore

1366
01:18:02,040 --> 01:18:07,760
Speaker 4: the minority plight. Minority groups are still struggling for constitutional recognition, representation,

1367
01:18:08,280 --> 01:18:10,759
Speaker 4: and equal rights in a country that is, of course

1368
01:18:10,920 --> 01:18:15,240
Speaker 4: still divided, and some minorities have chosen to boycott the

1369
01:18:15,320 --> 01:18:21,479
Speaker 4: national political process entirely in favor of pursuing local self governance. Also,

1370
01:18:22,000 --> 01:18:26,080
Speaker 4: minorities were not the only people being persecuted in Gaddaffi's Libya.

1371
01:18:26,680 --> 01:18:29,840
Speaker 4: On the political front, Despite coal and himself a socialist,

1372
01:18:30,160 --> 01:18:34,920
Speaker 4: Gaddaffi was really all over the place ideologically now internationally,

1373
01:18:35,000 --> 01:18:38,120
Speaker 4: he may have backed the Palestinian struggle, the Irish struggle,

1374
01:18:38,320 --> 01:18:42,600
Speaker 4: the African American struggle, but he was consistent in suppressing

1375
01:18:42,760 --> 01:18:46,479
Speaker 4: actual leftists in Libya. Marxis dot Com identified some of

1376
01:18:46,479 --> 01:18:50,960
Speaker 4: these repressive efforts in their article on Gaddafi quote. Gaddaffi

1377
01:18:51,080 --> 01:18:55,120
Speaker 4: was very clear in expressing his anti communism. In nineteen

1378
01:18:55,160 --> 01:18:58,160
Speaker 4: seventy one, he sent a plane full of Sudanese communists

1379
01:18:58,200 --> 01:19:01,720
Speaker 4: back to Sudan, where they were execut by Nimri. In

1380
01:19:01,800 --> 01:19:04,920
Speaker 4: nineteen seventy three, the regime publish an official document to

1381
01:19:04,920 --> 01:19:08,240
Speaker 4: commemorate the fourth anniversary of Gadaffi's rise to power under

1382
01:19:08,240 --> 01:19:13,360
Speaker 4: the title Holy War against Communism end quote quite the center.

1383
01:19:14,120 --> 01:19:17,760
Speaker 4: Later on, however, he would get more chummy with the ussry.

1384
01:19:18,040 --> 01:19:22,280
Speaker 4: But Gadaffi was no marxisilatist, and communists and leftists and

1385
01:19:22,360 --> 01:19:26,920
Speaker 4: workers were not legally capable of organizing independently in Libya.

1386
01:19:27,560 --> 01:19:29,960
Speaker 4: Aside from them, you also had the murder and torture

1387
01:19:30,000 --> 01:19:34,400
Speaker 4: of civilians and journalists, the assassinations of rivals and Libya

1388
01:19:34,439 --> 01:19:38,439
Speaker 4: and around the world. It was not the free speech

1389
01:19:38,560 --> 01:19:41,680
Speaker 4: utopia that Kadafi tried to paint that as instead of

1390
01:19:41,680 --> 01:19:45,919
Speaker 4: emboldening the left to sermons, he emboldened these tribal groups

1391
01:19:46,560 --> 01:19:51,760
Speaker 4: and set the foundation for the Libya that we see today.

1392
01:19:52,439 --> 01:19:56,439
Speaker 2: His consistent through line is that he liked strong men

1393
01:19:56,960 --> 01:19:59,599
Speaker 2: and sees himself among them and wants to associate himself

1394
01:19:59,680 --> 01:20:02,760
Speaker 2: with them. At some point in the early two thousands,

1395
01:20:02,800 --> 01:20:06,800
Speaker 2: he was supporting Yorg Hyder, a neo fascist in Austria,

1396
01:20:07,720 --> 01:20:10,360
Speaker 2: and telling Europeans they needed to get past their obsession

1397
01:20:10,400 --> 01:20:14,120
Speaker 2: with the Second World War. He had no like consistent politics.

1398
01:20:14,520 --> 01:20:17,920
Speaker 4: Well, I mean that tracks with his expulsion of Jewish

1399
01:20:17,960 --> 01:20:21,480
Speaker 4: communities in Libya. Yeah, he didn't only expel Jewish settlers,

1400
01:20:22,000 --> 01:20:25,960
Speaker 4: He expelled Jewish communities that had arrived prior to Italian colonization,

1401
01:20:26,800 --> 01:20:28,920
Speaker 4: that had existed in Libya for centuries.

1402
01:20:29,360 --> 01:20:32,439
Speaker 2: Yeah that maybe, I guess Anti Semitism can often be

1403
01:20:32,479 --> 01:20:34,960
Speaker 2: the link that brings terrible people together.

1404
01:20:36,560 --> 01:20:39,760
Speaker 4: He had a lot of other notorious incidents of suppression,

1405
01:20:40,439 --> 01:20:44,040
Speaker 4: but one of the most significant was the Abu Salem massacre.

1406
01:20:45,360 --> 01:20:48,680
Speaker 4: In short, as recounted by John Ooks, Abu Salem was

1407
01:20:48,680 --> 01:20:51,519
Speaker 4: the site of a prisoner's protest on the twenty eighth

1408
01:20:51,560 --> 01:20:55,040
Speaker 4: of June nineteen ninety six. The prisoners escaped their cells

1409
01:20:55,040 --> 01:20:58,000
Speaker 4: and were protesting them as treatment as gods shot at

1410
01:20:58,000 --> 01:21:01,040
Speaker 4: them from the roof. Two tops of officials came and

1411
01:21:01,080 --> 01:21:04,320
Speaker 4: took command, ordering the shooting to stop and promising to

1412
01:21:04,320 --> 01:21:07,240
Speaker 4: address the prisoner's complaints if they returned to their cells

1413
01:21:07,439 --> 01:21:10,080
Speaker 4: and gave up the guards they had hostage, and the

1414
01:21:10,160 --> 01:21:15,120
Speaker 4: following day shots fired from eleven am to one thirty

1415
01:21:15,160 --> 01:21:20,040
Speaker 4: five pm, a mass slaughter of approximately one thy two

1416
01:21:20,120 --> 01:21:24,320
Speaker 4: hundred of the sixteen to seventeen hundred prisoners in Abu Salins.

1417
01:21:24,960 --> 01:21:27,880
Speaker 4: The families who suffered a blow were among the first

1418
01:21:28,040 --> 01:21:31,920
Speaker 4: on the streets of Benghazi twenty eleven, but those families

1419
01:21:31,960 --> 01:21:35,080
Speaker 4: were not originally told that they loved ones had been killed.

1420
01:21:35,840 --> 01:21:39,439
Speaker 4: Some of them continued to visit the prison for weeks, months,

1421
01:21:39,520 --> 01:21:44,080
Speaker 4: years after, bringing gifts for their relatives who were already

1422
01:21:44,520 --> 01:21:49,440
Speaker 4: long dead. In the twists and turns of Gaddafi's ideological

1423
01:21:49,479 --> 01:21:53,680
Speaker 4: development or lack their of. Following the fall of the USSR,

1424
01:21:53,880 --> 01:21:59,120
Speaker 4: Gaddafi would also pursue economic liberalization. He started opening up

1425
01:21:59,160 --> 01:22:02,519
Speaker 4: to the West slightly. There was slow progress and a

1426
01:22:02,520 --> 01:22:05,880
Speaker 4: brief hiccup, but by two thousand and three, free market

1427
01:22:05,880 --> 01:22:11,040
Speaker 4: advocate Chukri Ganim was appointed Prime Minister. Before long, three

1428
01:22:11,120 --> 01:22:15,479
Speaker 4: hundred and sixty state enterprises were privatized. By two thousand

1429
01:22:15,479 --> 01:22:17,880
Speaker 4: and seven, Libya was laying off as many as a

1430
01:22:17,920 --> 01:22:22,519
Speaker 4: third of the government workforce four hundred thousand public sector workers.

1431
01:22:23,040 --> 01:22:25,839
Speaker 4: According to a New York Times article from twenty eleven.

1432
01:22:26,360 --> 01:22:30,400
Speaker 4: The IMF had actually praised Libya's economic reforms, So why

1433
01:22:30,520 --> 01:22:34,479
Speaker 4: twenty eleven conditions were so unbearable for so many workers,

1434
01:22:34,560 --> 01:22:37,639
Speaker 4: especially young people. There's no wonder that some of them

1435
01:22:37,720 --> 01:22:51,920
Speaker 4: fought with nothing to lose. The last aspects of Goodaffi's

1436
01:22:51,960 --> 01:22:53,920
Speaker 4: rule that I want to touch on was his complex

1437
01:22:54,000 --> 01:22:58,879
Speaker 4: relationship with Western powers Billionais rule in the seventies and eighties.

1438
01:22:58,920 --> 01:23:02,320
Speaker 4: He did style himself an anti imperist revolutionary, and that

1439
01:23:02,439 --> 01:23:04,640
Speaker 4: is the image that our people uphold of him to

1440
01:23:04,680 --> 01:23:10,160
Speaker 4: this day. Libya funded an armed revolutionary and Milson movements worldwide,

1441
01:23:10,479 --> 01:23:13,679
Speaker 4: from the African National Congress or the ANC, to the

1442
01:23:13,720 --> 01:23:18,360
Speaker 4: Palestine Liberation Organization or PILO, to the Irish Republican Army

1443
01:23:18,600 --> 01:23:22,120
Speaker 4: or IRI. He aligned himself with the so called radical

1444
01:23:22,160 --> 01:23:26,439
Speaker 4: camp in the Middle East, including Bathist Syria and Iran,

1445
01:23:27,200 --> 01:23:31,719
Speaker 4: and Western governments accused Libya of supporting international terrorism. Libya

1446
01:23:31,800 --> 01:23:35,559
Speaker 4: was considered a rogue state, but as noted by Syrian

1447
01:23:35,600 --> 01:23:40,800
Speaker 4: anarchist Mazen Kamalmas in an interview with Jose Antonio Guitairez quote,

1448
01:23:41,080 --> 01:23:45,840
Speaker 4: even when Gaddafi was declaring himself an anti imperialist long ago.

1449
01:23:46,000 --> 01:23:48,120
Speaker 4: It was just a lip service while he engaged as

1450
01:23:48,120 --> 01:23:51,880
Speaker 4: an authoritarian in trivial terrorist acts that never meant to

1451
01:23:51,920 --> 01:23:57,360
Speaker 4: support the libertarian objectives of the victims of imperialism end quote. Still,

1452
01:23:57,840 --> 01:24:00,920
Speaker 4: Reagan called him a mad dog, and the US bombed

1453
01:24:00,960 --> 01:24:03,920
Speaker 4: Libya in nineteen eighty six after attacks in a West

1454
01:24:03,960 --> 01:24:08,759
Speaker 4: Berlin nightclub were attributed to Libyan agents. Those bombans narrowly

1455
01:24:08,800 --> 01:24:13,000
Speaker 4: missed Gaddafi himself, but they killed his adopted baby daughter.

1456
01:24:13,800 --> 01:24:16,320
Speaker 4: Libya was also blamed for the nineteen eighty eight bombing

1457
01:24:16,520 --> 01:24:19,920
Speaker 4: of PanAm Flight one O three over Lockerby, which led

1458
01:24:19,960 --> 01:24:22,760
Speaker 4: to sanctions both the United Nations and the US, which

1459
01:24:22,840 --> 01:24:28,280
Speaker 4: isolated Libya economically and diplomatically. In the nineties, however, with

1460
01:24:28,479 --> 01:24:32,600
Speaker 4: four of the USSR, Libya began solely shifting toward cooperation.

1461
01:24:33,280 --> 01:24:36,040
Speaker 4: They handed over the suspects in the Lockerby bombing, and

1462
01:24:36,200 --> 01:24:39,640
Speaker 4: sanctions began to loosen as they attempted to normalize relations.

1463
01:24:40,200 --> 01:24:44,439
Speaker 4: Western intelligence services soon started cooperating with Libyan intelligence against

1464
01:24:44,560 --> 01:24:48,439
Speaker 4: Islamist militon groups, including the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group, which

1465
01:24:48,479 --> 01:24:51,840
Speaker 4: is a thorn in Gaddafi's side. The early two thousands

1466
01:24:51,880 --> 01:24:55,759
Speaker 4: had Libya renounce its weapons of mass destruction program following

1467
01:24:55,800 --> 01:24:59,519
Speaker 4: the invasion of Iraq. The US and the unsuresequently lifted

1468
01:24:59,600 --> 01:25:03,879
Speaker 4: sanction and diplomatic relations were restored fully with Western countries.

1469
01:25:04,400 --> 01:25:08,479
Speaker 4: Gadaffi hosted Tony Blair of the UK, Nicholas Sarkozia France,

1470
01:25:08,800 --> 01:25:11,360
Speaker 4: and met with Obama as well, and many of these

1471
01:25:11,439 --> 01:25:15,320
Speaker 4: meetings with Western leaders produced multi billion dollar energy in

1472
01:25:15,400 --> 01:25:21,519
Speaker 4: business deals BP Royal, Dot Shell, Excellent, Mobile, Chevron, Total Energies.

1473
01:25:21,920 --> 01:25:24,960
Speaker 4: They were all get in pieces of Libya's wealth. As

1474
01:25:25,040 --> 01:25:29,600
Speaker 4: Libya began adopting more neoliberal economic reforms like currency devaluation,

1475
01:25:30,000 --> 01:25:34,000
Speaker 4: trade liberalization, and more openness to foreign investment. Libya was

1476
01:25:34,040 --> 01:25:37,560
Speaker 4: also able to cooperate closely with Western intelligence during the

1477
01:25:37,600 --> 01:25:40,840
Speaker 4: war and terror, including assist in the CIE and MI

1478
01:25:41,080 --> 01:25:45,679
Speaker 4: six in rendition and torture, as uncovered by Human Rights Watch.

1479
01:25:46,360 --> 01:25:49,960
Speaker 4: So by the mid two thousands, Libya had mostly reintegrated

1480
01:25:50,080 --> 01:25:52,960
Speaker 4: into the Western their global system, and the West, for

1481
01:25:53,040 --> 01:25:57,120
Speaker 4: their part, simply ignored Gdaffi's continues. Human rights abuses. The

1482
01:25:57,200 --> 01:26:01,280
Speaker 4: counter terrorism cooperation, the oil and gascon tracks, and don't

1483
01:26:01,280 --> 01:26:05,280
Speaker 4: forget the brutal African migrant control were all too valuable

1484
01:26:05,800 --> 01:26:07,200
Speaker 4: for America and Europe.

1485
01:26:07,680 --> 01:26:09,960
Speaker 2: I remember this this period quite well. It was when

1486
01:26:10,000 --> 01:26:13,599
Speaker 2: I was in my undergraduate university and Gaddafi was invited

1487
01:26:13,680 --> 01:26:17,080
Speaker 2: to speak the Oxford Union. I did my undergraduate there

1488
01:26:17,520 --> 01:26:19,519
Speaker 2: and myself and a number of friends.

1489
01:26:19,880 --> 01:26:20,719
Speaker 4: So you met Gadafi.

1490
01:26:21,479 --> 01:26:26,280
Speaker 2: No, he spoke. He spoke via video conference, okay, which

1491
01:26:26,840 --> 01:26:32,000
Speaker 2: they paused while they removed us for protesting Gaddafi's Like,

1492
01:26:32,280 --> 01:26:34,680
Speaker 2: it just seemed like this decade of abuse of his

1493
01:26:34,800 --> 01:26:37,080
Speaker 2: own people have been completely forgotten, right, because he was

1494
01:26:37,160 --> 01:26:40,479
Speaker 2: now prepared to do abuse of other people that was

1495
01:26:40,560 --> 01:26:43,920
Speaker 2: beneficial to the United Kingdom of the United States. And

1496
01:26:44,520 --> 01:26:47,800
Speaker 2: we felt like that was apparent and wrong, so we

1497
01:26:47,880 --> 01:26:52,160
Speaker 2: went to make our feelings known. And the Oxford Union's

1498
01:26:52,240 --> 01:26:55,280
Speaker 2: very silly institution, right, which prizes itself on free speech,

1499
01:26:55,360 --> 01:26:58,439
Speaker 2: and really it just does kind of class reproduction for

1500
01:26:58,520 --> 01:27:01,040
Speaker 2: the most part, right, And of course there was not

1501
01:27:01,240 --> 01:27:03,000
Speaker 2: freedom of speech for people who are going to be

1502
01:27:03,080 --> 01:27:05,080
Speaker 2: rude to someone who was in charge of a state,

1503
01:27:05,160 --> 01:27:07,519
Speaker 2: even if they were being rude on behalf of the

1504
01:27:07,640 --> 01:27:12,000
Speaker 2: thousands of people he's had murdered and tortured. And yeah,

1505
01:27:12,040 --> 01:27:15,439
Speaker 2: that was my little personal running with Goodafi when I

1506
01:27:15,560 --> 01:27:18,400
Speaker 2: was what like eighteen. But yeah, I can't remember if

1507
01:27:18,400 --> 01:27:21,320
Speaker 2: we were like not allowed in or we were booted out,

1508
01:27:21,680 --> 01:27:25,040
Speaker 2: because I am like two decades and half a dozen

1509
01:27:25,120 --> 01:27:29,280
Speaker 2: traumatic brain injuries since my teenage years. But yeah, I

1510
01:27:29,360 --> 01:27:32,240
Speaker 2: do remember just being like, people are triating with I

1511
01:27:32,240 --> 01:27:35,680
Speaker 2: guess some kind of fucking novelty, and this person has

1512
01:27:35,800 --> 01:27:38,120
Speaker 2: real blood on his hands, like real people have suffered

1513
01:27:38,120 --> 01:27:40,680
Speaker 2: tremendously and died because of actions he's taken, like it's

1514
01:27:40,760 --> 01:27:42,479
Speaker 2: not funny or cute.

1515
01:27:42,640 --> 01:27:43,840
Speaker 4: Wow, what year was that?

1516
01:27:44,680 --> 01:27:47,760
Speaker 2: It would have been in the early two thousands, the

1517
01:27:47,880 --> 01:27:51,200
Speaker 2: Bush era, because that's when I was in my undergraduate

1518
01:27:51,760 --> 01:27:55,120
Speaker 2: second Bush term, so like it would have been brought

1519
01:27:55,120 --> 01:27:57,200
Speaker 2: in two thousand and six some of somewhere there.

1520
01:27:57,640 --> 01:28:01,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, thankfully I never had any run ins with good Yea.

1521
01:28:01,840 --> 01:28:05,400
Speaker 2: Even at that time, I can remember just being sort

1522
01:28:05,400 --> 01:28:08,479
Speaker 2: of somewhat pulled by the Marxist learning this tendency to

1523
01:28:08,640 --> 01:28:11,479
Speaker 2: excuse crimes against humanity if as long as they were

1524
01:28:11,520 --> 01:28:14,439
Speaker 2: done by people who who said the right things, who

1525
01:28:14,520 --> 01:28:19,680
Speaker 2: had the right vibes, who condemned the right people, and

1526
01:28:19,920 --> 01:28:23,000
Speaker 2: the liberal tendency to excuse crimes against humanity so long

1527
01:28:23,040 --> 01:28:25,800
Speaker 2: as they were done in service of capitalism and the state.

1528
01:28:26,840 --> 01:28:30,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, shockingly similar tendencies in some ways.

1529
01:28:30,960 --> 01:28:35,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, like this fundamentally not rooted in the idea

1530
01:28:35,280 --> 01:28:38,160
Speaker 2: that people have a right to dignity. Both of them

1531
01:28:38,240 --> 01:28:41,000
Speaker 2: hold people as less valuable than other things, right, be

1532
01:28:41,120 --> 01:28:46,439
Speaker 2: it capital or I mean the Marxis learnings tendency, honestly, Like,

1533
01:28:46,560 --> 01:28:49,320
Speaker 2: it's not even the revolution that they believe it's more

1534
01:28:49,400 --> 01:28:55,240
Speaker 2: valuable than people. It's the revolutionary rhetoric. Yeah, like with

1535
01:28:55,400 --> 01:28:57,920
Speaker 2: a sad right, Like you can murder your own people

1536
01:28:57,960 --> 01:29:01,519
Speaker 2: with chemical weapons so long as you pretend to give

1537
01:29:01,560 --> 01:29:05,919
Speaker 2: a single shit about Palestinians, even though you've spent decades

1538
01:29:06,080 --> 01:29:08,360
Speaker 2: using your weapons to kill your own people and never

1539
01:29:08,479 --> 01:29:12,280
Speaker 2: once use him to actually help the people of Palestine,

1540
01:29:12,360 --> 01:29:13,440
Speaker 2: to actually protect.

1541
01:29:13,160 --> 01:29:18,800
Speaker 4: People, exactly exactly, So at this point, now you know, good,

1542
01:29:18,800 --> 01:29:22,320
Speaker 4: after he's trying to be your chummy with dus after

1543
01:29:22,400 --> 01:29:25,679
Speaker 4: he spent some time being chummy with Africa, and spend

1544
01:29:25,720 --> 01:29:30,360
Speaker 4: some time being chummy with USSR and with rebel groups

1545
01:29:30,400 --> 01:29:32,640
Speaker 4: around the world. But that was just the thing, right,

1546
01:29:32,760 --> 01:29:37,600
Speaker 4: he had this track record of flip flopping, you know,

1547
01:29:38,120 --> 01:29:41,120
Speaker 4: and even though relations had normalize, these Western powers could

1548
01:29:41,160 --> 01:29:43,760
Speaker 4: not trust him. They still saw him as that mad dog.

1549
01:29:43,960 --> 01:29:48,559
Speaker 4: They still saw him as unpredictable and unreliable. In fact,

1550
01:29:48,600 --> 01:29:51,160
Speaker 4: even while he was cutting deals with these multi billion

1551
01:29:51,160 --> 01:29:55,000
Speaker 4: dollar corporations for the oil contracts and so on, when

1552
01:29:55,000 --> 01:29:57,320
Speaker 4: he wasn't getting what he wanted, he would threaten to

1553
01:29:57,439 --> 01:30:03,000
Speaker 4: nationalize to get what he wanted. And so to West,

1554
01:30:03,200 --> 01:30:07,479
Speaker 4: being opportunistic, we're just waiting for an opportunity. They were

1555
01:30:07,520 --> 01:30:11,320
Speaker 4: done with playing his game, and that opportunity came when

1556
01:30:11,360 --> 01:30:15,080
Speaker 4: the people organically rose up against Kadafi in twenty eleven,

1557
01:30:15,920 --> 01:30:20,320
Speaker 4: not long after NATO intervened, and the years since Libyans

1558
01:30:20,320 --> 01:30:24,360
Speaker 4: have suffered and died with no end in sight. It

1559
01:30:24,439 --> 01:30:29,080
Speaker 4: shouldn't be uncontroversial to say this Gadafi was not a

1560
01:30:29,200 --> 01:30:32,720
Speaker 4: true antime perialist. I don't think it's possible for a

1561
01:30:32,760 --> 01:30:37,479
Speaker 4: statesman or a government to be truly anti perialist. Government

1562
01:30:37,680 --> 01:30:43,960
Speaker 4: is foundationally exploitative internally and when turned externally, that drive

1563
01:30:44,080 --> 01:30:48,240
Speaker 4: exploitation is what we understand as imperialism. All the markers

1564
01:30:48,320 --> 01:30:53,479
Speaker 4: of imperialism worthy of condemnation, be it economic exploitation, cultural dominance,

1565
01:30:53,560 --> 01:30:57,200
Speaker 4: military violence, et cetera, is carried out under the label

1566
01:30:57,280 --> 01:31:01,160
Speaker 4: of governance when done within its own borders when done against,

1567
01:31:01,160 --> 01:31:06,080
Speaker 4: for example, the non Arab minorities in Libya. I think

1568
01:31:06,120 --> 01:31:10,799
Speaker 4: what's missing from now popular anti imperialist narratives is that connection,

1569
01:31:11,479 --> 01:31:15,200
Speaker 4: that analysis and a gap in the analysis is what's

1570
01:31:15,240 --> 01:31:18,800
Speaker 4: creating this false consciousness that leads people to combs to

1571
01:31:18,920 --> 01:31:23,120
Speaker 4: conclusion that anti imperialism means that XYZ government is anti

1572
01:31:23,160 --> 01:31:27,040
Speaker 4: imperialists and good, and ABC government is imperialists and bad.

1573
01:31:27,800 --> 01:31:30,760
Speaker 4: That's not how the world works. States are never going

1574
01:31:30,800 --> 01:31:34,320
Speaker 4: to be liberatory. They're not able to produce a liberatory framework.

1575
01:31:34,760 --> 01:31:38,240
Speaker 4: At their best, they function as a welfare state. At

1576
01:31:38,280 --> 01:31:43,799
Speaker 4: their worst, you get mass suppression and culture personality. Sometimes

1577
01:31:43,840 --> 01:31:46,960
Speaker 4: you get a combination of both, as with Libya and

1578
01:31:47,080 --> 01:31:52,000
Speaker 4: a Giraffi. And that's my message for today. Please stop

1579
01:31:52,000 --> 01:31:58,360
Speaker 4: Lionis and leaders stay woke. Yeah, and all power for

1580
01:31:58,600 --> 01:32:02,080
Speaker 4: all the people. I've been and youre siege. This is

1581
01:32:02,120 --> 01:32:03,840
Speaker 4: a Kapania peace.

1582
01:32:17,680 --> 01:32:20,960
Speaker 6: On Sunday, April twelfth, I went to the Basement nightclub

1583
01:32:21,120 --> 01:32:24,800
Speaker 6: in Queens. Like usual, someone scanned my ticket at the

1584
01:32:24,840 --> 01:32:27,560
Speaker 6: Big gate off Flushing Avenue. I had to wait in

1585
01:32:27,600 --> 01:32:31,360
Speaker 6: a winding line outside the door, went through security, and

1586
01:32:31,560 --> 01:32:35,320
Speaker 6: finally reached the DJ and bar, but instead of the

1587
01:32:35,479 --> 01:32:39,519
Speaker 6: regular collection of twinks, dolls, and bisexuals, the room was

1588
01:32:39,600 --> 01:32:44,720
Speaker 6: full of city workers, politicians, journalists, and DSA members, a

1589
01:32:44,840 --> 01:32:49,320
Speaker 6: decent number of which probably were bisexual. I suppose technically

1590
01:32:49,439 --> 01:32:53,280
Speaker 6: we were directly above the Basement nightclub in the Knockdown

1591
01:32:53,439 --> 01:32:58,240
Speaker 6: Center event venue. Gathered this Sunday afternoon to attend Mayor

1592
01:32:58,400 --> 01:33:03,240
Speaker 6: Zoron Mamdani's one hundred day address. I'm Garrison Davis. This

1593
01:33:03,520 --> 01:33:06,120
Speaker 6: is it could happen here. I show about things falling

1594
01:33:06,160 --> 01:33:10,000
Speaker 6: apart and sometimes putting stuff back together. This one is

1595
01:33:10,080 --> 01:33:14,160
Speaker 6: one of those rare episodes focused on the latter. Earlier

1596
01:33:14,240 --> 01:33:18,799
Speaker 6: this April marked Mayor Mamdani's first one hundred days in office.

1597
01:33:19,479 --> 01:33:22,840
Speaker 6: This episode, I'll discuss what Zoron has done these first

1598
01:33:22,880 --> 01:33:25,800
Speaker 6: one hundred days, some of the challenges he's faced, if

1599
01:33:25,840 --> 01:33:28,439
Speaker 6: he's been able to deliver on the promises of his campaign,

1600
01:33:28,800 --> 01:33:31,320
Speaker 6: and how he's adapted to the power and constraints of

1601
01:33:31,439 --> 01:33:34,840
Speaker 6: running the biggest city in the country, and finally, what

1602
01:33:35,280 --> 01:33:37,840
Speaker 6: all this could mean for the future of working class

1603
01:33:37,960 --> 01:33:42,080
Speaker 6: and left wing politics in the United States. Let's first

1604
01:33:42,160 --> 01:33:45,960
Speaker 6: return to the one hundred day Address above the Basement nightclub,

1605
01:33:46,920 --> 01:33:49,240
Speaker 6: upon entering the venue, you found yourself in a museum

1606
01:33:49,360 --> 01:33:53,160
Speaker 6: of the administration's first one hundred days. This little installation

1607
01:33:53,360 --> 01:33:57,280
Speaker 6: displayed the Mayor's snowshovel from the historic blizzard during Zoron's

1608
01:33:57,320 --> 01:34:00,840
Speaker 6: first few weeks in office, a tenant organizing suggestion board

1609
01:34:00,960 --> 01:34:04,719
Speaker 6: from the rental ripoff hearings, and a child sized mayoral

1610
01:34:04,800 --> 01:34:08,320
Speaker 6: podium used to announce a new free childcare program for

1611
01:34:08,520 --> 01:34:13,000
Speaker 6: two year olds. Museum plaques detailed victories for labor and

1612
01:34:13,160 --> 01:34:16,960
Speaker 6: tenants rights, as well as infrastructure accomplishments like scaffolding reform

1613
01:34:17,200 --> 01:34:20,040
Speaker 6: and a pothole blitz that filled over twenty thousand potholes

1614
01:34:20,160 --> 01:34:24,800
Speaker 6: in just three days. Before the mayor's speech, a Bronx parent,

1615
01:34:25,000 --> 01:34:28,160
Speaker 6: two tenant organizers, and a city worker from the Department

1616
01:34:28,200 --> 01:34:31,240
Speaker 6: of Transportation spoke to the crowd about how life is

1617
01:34:31,320 --> 01:34:36,040
Speaker 6: different under the new administration. Mamdani's speech was effectively a

1618
01:34:36,200 --> 01:34:38,840
Speaker 6: state of the Union for New York City. The mayor

1619
01:34:38,920 --> 01:34:42,439
Speaker 6: outlined the campaign promises the administration has fulfilled so far

1620
01:34:42,640 --> 01:34:46,040
Speaker 6: in their short time in office, and connected his style

1621
01:34:46,080 --> 01:34:49,519
Speaker 6: of governing to the Sewer Socialists of Milwaukee from the

1622
01:34:49,600 --> 01:34:52,800
Speaker 6: first half of the twentieth century. Who focused on strengthening

1623
01:34:52,920 --> 01:34:54,439
Speaker 6: public services.

1624
01:34:54,520 --> 01:34:57,360
Speaker 5: Because for too long, City Hall had not just failed

1625
01:34:57,720 --> 01:35:02,040
Speaker 5: to meet expectations, it had low them. After years of

1626
01:35:02,120 --> 01:35:05,240
Speaker 5: broken promises, no one in this city could be blamed

1627
01:35:05,320 --> 01:35:08,960
Speaker 5: for doubting that government held either the ability or the

1628
01:35:09,040 --> 01:35:11,320
Speaker 5: ambition to upend the status quo.

1629
01:35:12,280 --> 01:35:12,320
Speaker 7: It.

1630
01:35:12,439 --> 01:35:15,519
Speaker 5: As I said on that freezing January afternoon to more

1631
01:35:15,560 --> 01:35:18,120
Speaker 5: than eight and a half million New Yorkers, we will

1632
01:35:18,200 --> 01:35:26,360
Speaker 5: make no apology for what we believe. I was elected

1633
01:35:26,400 --> 01:35:28,960
Speaker 5: as a democratic socialist, and I will govern as a

1634
01:35:29,040 --> 01:35:30,160
Speaker 5: democratic socialist.

1635
01:35:32,760 --> 01:35:35,840
Speaker 6: This speech was really the first time since the inauguration

1636
01:35:36,240 --> 01:35:38,519
Speaker 6: that the Mayor has talked at length about what it

1637
01:35:38,720 --> 01:35:42,719
Speaker 6: means to govern as a democratic socialist and the example

1638
01:35:43,040 --> 01:35:45,439
Speaker 6: that New York City can set for the rest of

1639
01:35:45,520 --> 01:35:49,759
Speaker 6: the country. The address was mostly attended by city workers,

1640
01:35:49,960 --> 01:35:52,679
Speaker 6: who the Mayor invited to enter into a ticket lottery.

1641
01:35:53,400 --> 01:35:55,320
Speaker 6: For most of the speech, I was pinned between a

1642
01:35:55,360 --> 01:35:59,479
Speaker 6: group of uniformed Department of Sanitation employees and workers from

1643
01:35:59,560 --> 01:36:03,479
Speaker 6: the Department of Consumer and Worker Protection. The event in

1644
01:36:03,640 --> 01:36:08,799
Speaker 6: general was focused on uplifting civil servants and celebrating public service,

1645
01:36:09,320 --> 01:36:12,879
Speaker 6: whether that be bus drivers, school teachers, or the sanitation

1646
01:36:13,000 --> 01:36:16,640
Speaker 6: workers that kept the city running during the worst snowstorm

1647
01:36:16,800 --> 01:36:19,919
Speaker 6: in years. It feels like for the past few decades,

1648
01:36:20,280 --> 01:36:24,000
Speaker 6: the only public sector job that gets regularly celebrated as

1649
01:36:24,080 --> 01:36:27,000
Speaker 6: noble by those in government or in the media and

1650
01:36:27,160 --> 01:36:31,439
Speaker 6: promoted by pop culture is being a police officer. Being

1651
01:36:31,479 --> 01:36:33,880
Speaker 6: a cop is the only public sector job that gets

1652
01:36:34,000 --> 01:36:38,320
Speaker 6: uplifted with propaganda. Zoron's little videos promoting three point one

1653
01:36:38,560 --> 01:36:41,479
Speaker 6: city call center workers is to quote front of the

1654
01:36:41,560 --> 01:36:46,920
Speaker 6: pod Ben Lorber, rolling back decades of neoliberal propaganda reasserting

1655
01:36:46,960 --> 01:36:51,280
Speaker 6: the dignity of public sector work and workers. A common

1656
01:36:51,400 --> 01:36:54,479
Speaker 6: turn of phrase uttered by Mayor Mumdani is if you

1657
01:36:54,600 --> 01:36:57,840
Speaker 6: can't solve the smallest task in someone's life, why would

1658
01:36:57,840 --> 01:37:00,640
Speaker 6: they ever trust you to solve the biggest one. So

1659
01:37:00,920 --> 01:37:04,040
Speaker 6: let's go over some things big and small that Mamdani

1660
01:37:04,080 --> 01:37:06,679
Speaker 6: has been able to do in his first one hundred days.

1661
01:37:07,600 --> 01:37:11,599
Speaker 6: One of Mamdani's core campaign promises was to freeze the rent.

1662
01:37:12,360 --> 01:37:16,320
Speaker 6: On February eighteenth, Mayor Mamdani appointed six new members to

1663
01:37:16,439 --> 01:37:20,040
Speaker 6: the nine member Rent Guidelines Board, which each year is

1664
01:37:20,160 --> 01:37:23,880
Speaker 6: tasked with determining the rent increase percentages for the more

1665
01:37:23,920 --> 01:37:27,479
Speaker 6: than one million rent stabilized apartments. In the city under

1666
01:37:27,520 --> 01:37:30,879
Speaker 6: airic Adams, the board approved a three percent rent increase

1667
01:37:31,320 --> 01:37:33,719
Speaker 6: for one year leases and a four point five percent

1668
01:37:33,800 --> 01:37:36,840
Speaker 6: increase for two year leases in just a few weeks.

1669
01:37:37,000 --> 01:37:40,360
Speaker 6: The new board will hold a preliminary vote to freeze

1670
01:37:40,560 --> 01:37:44,719
Speaker 6: or raise rents before their final vote in June. Public

1671
01:37:44,760 --> 01:37:49,679
Speaker 6: testimony on rent adjustments is currently underway. Housing in general

1672
01:37:49,880 --> 01:37:53,000
Speaker 6: is one of the top issues affecting affordability in the city,

1673
01:37:53,360 --> 01:37:55,960
Speaker 6: and the Mayor's approach has not been limited to filling

1674
01:37:56,040 --> 01:37:59,919
Speaker 6: vacancies on the Rent Guidelines Board. After Zora's and aaugurations

1675
01:38:00,000 --> 01:38:03,000
Speaker 6: beach on January first, he went to a neglected apartment

1676
01:38:03,040 --> 01:38:06,439
Speaker 6: building just east of Prospect Park to sign an executive

1677
01:38:06,520 --> 01:38:10,439
Speaker 6: order revitalizing the Mayor's Office to Protect Tenants and appointed

1678
01:38:10,439 --> 01:38:14,200
Speaker 6: a tenant organizer to lead the office. This apartment building

1679
01:38:14,360 --> 01:38:19,080
Speaker 6: was owned by a literally bankrupt landlord called the Pinnacle Group,

1680
01:38:19,640 --> 01:38:23,000
Speaker 6: who was responsible for more than five thousand housing violations

1681
01:38:23,400 --> 01:38:28,200
Speaker 6: and fourteen thousand complaints. The revamped Office to Protect Tenants

1682
01:38:28,280 --> 01:38:32,680
Speaker 6: and the Mayor intervened in the bankruptcy proceedings and successfully

1683
01:38:32,760 --> 01:38:36,679
Speaker 6: secured thirty million dollars in repairs and upgrades for tenants

1684
01:38:37,240 --> 01:38:41,639
Speaker 6: as well as protection from future displacement. Through this office,

1685
01:38:42,000 --> 01:38:44,919
Speaker 6: the administration has continued to crack down on bad landlords

1686
01:38:44,960 --> 01:38:48,439
Speaker 6: who violate New York City law and mistrey tenants. Just

1687
01:38:48,479 --> 01:38:51,080
Speaker 6: a few weeks after the inauguration, Momdanni announced a two

1688
01:38:51,120 --> 01:38:53,360
Speaker 6: point one million dollar settlement from A and E real

1689
01:38:53,439 --> 01:38:57,400
Speaker 6: Estate Properties for tenant harassment and hazardous conditions across fourteen

1690
01:38:57,439 --> 01:39:00,880
Speaker 6: buildings in Brooklyn, Manhattan, and Queen's As a part of

1691
01:39:00,880 --> 01:39:03,160
Speaker 6: the settlement, A and E was also required to correct

1692
01:39:03,240 --> 01:39:07,720
Speaker 6: more than four thousand building condition violations. In February, the

1693
01:39:07,840 --> 01:39:11,800
Speaker 6: Department of Housing, Preservation and Development released a public list

1694
01:39:12,000 --> 01:39:14,479
Speaker 6: of the two hundred and fifty buildings with the most

1695
01:39:14,600 --> 01:39:17,800
Speaker 6: severe housing code violations a city wide and put them

1696
01:39:17,840 --> 01:39:22,200
Speaker 6: under heightened oversight via the Alternative Enforcement Program, with the

1697
01:39:22,280 --> 01:39:25,440
Speaker 6: city stepping in to make repairs, then billing the landlords

1698
01:39:25,720 --> 01:39:27,760
Speaker 6: if they failed to address violations.

1699
01:39:29,200 --> 01:39:32,200
Speaker 5: Since January first, we have won more than thirty four

1700
01:39:32,320 --> 01:39:39,839
Speaker 5: million dollars in settlements, judgments and repairs for tenants, delivered

1701
01:39:39,920 --> 01:39:43,360
Speaker 5: improvements to six thousand and seventy apartments so far, and

1702
01:39:43,479 --> 01:39:46,760
Speaker 5: issued one hundred and ninety five thousand, eight hundred and

1703
01:39:46,920 --> 01:39:52,439
Speaker 5: twenty nine violations New York City will no longer tolerate

1704
01:39:52,600 --> 01:39:54,559
Speaker 5: exploitation as a business model.

1705
01:39:57,000 --> 01:40:00,519
Speaker 6: In March, Mayor Mumdani announced a quote unquote landmark victory

1706
01:40:00,920 --> 01:40:05,760
Speaker 6: against famously bad landlord Seth Miller of Egis Realty. You

1707
01:40:05,840 --> 01:40:11,240
Speaker 6: can say the landlord was egregious at Realty. The city

1708
01:40:11,320 --> 01:40:15,320
Speaker 6: brought a case against Miller for dangerously direct conditions at

1709
01:40:15,479 --> 01:40:18,240
Speaker 6: nine to one to nine Prospect Avenue in the South Bronx,

1710
01:40:18,600 --> 01:40:21,759
Speaker 6: and for the first time ever, courts imposed the maximum

1711
01:40:21,840 --> 01:40:26,160
Speaker 6: penalties under the city's nuisance abatement law, a one thousand

1712
01:40:26,280 --> 01:40:30,320
Speaker 6: dollars fine per day until housing violations are addressed and

1713
01:40:30,720 --> 01:40:35,520
Speaker 6: two point one seven four million dollars in retroactive penalties.

1714
01:40:36,320 --> 01:40:38,719
Speaker 6: During the first one hundred days, the city held five

1715
01:40:39,160 --> 01:40:42,920
Speaker 6: rental ripoff hearings, one in each borough, providing New Yorkers

1716
01:40:42,960 --> 01:40:46,040
Speaker 6: a platform to discuss various problems with their landlord, from

1717
01:40:46,280 --> 01:40:50,280
Speaker 6: poor conditions to repair delays or junk fees. This was

1718
01:40:50,320 --> 01:40:53,120
Speaker 6: a dedicated public forum for tenants to speak directly to

1719
01:40:53,200 --> 01:40:58,240
Speaker 6: city officials and collectively shape housing policy going forward. A

1720
01:40:58,360 --> 01:41:01,759
Speaker 6: month into office, the mayor announced a thirty eight million

1721
01:41:01,840 --> 01:41:05,639
Speaker 6: dollar investment to install modern heating and cooling in seven

1722
01:41:05,760 --> 01:41:08,880
Speaker 6: hundred and twelve of New York City's public housing units

1723
01:41:09,240 --> 01:41:13,200
Speaker 6: at the Beach forty first Street houses in Queens And

1724
01:41:13,320 --> 01:41:15,880
Speaker 6: technically this is after the first one hundred days, but

1725
01:41:15,880 --> 01:41:18,040
Speaker 6: I think it's worth mentioning that just a few days ago,

1726
01:41:18,280 --> 01:41:22,200
Speaker 6: zorunannounced a two point five billion dollar investment in public

1727
01:41:22,240 --> 01:41:25,320
Speaker 6: housing to deliver new energy efficient lighting and faucets to

1728
01:41:25,479 --> 01:41:28,640
Speaker 6: forty five thousand homes, heat pumps in twenty thousand, and

1729
01:41:28,840 --> 01:41:33,320
Speaker 6: ten thousand new induction stoves, all affecting the Nische public

1730
01:41:33,479 --> 01:41:37,160
Speaker 6: housing in New York City. On Zoron's very first day

1731
01:41:37,200 --> 01:41:40,200
Speaker 6: in office, he also signed two executive orders to accelerate

1732
01:41:40,280 --> 01:41:43,759
Speaker 6: housing construction by building on city owned properties to increase

1733
01:41:43,800 --> 01:41:46,439
Speaker 6: the supply of affordable housing and cutting red tape to

1734
01:41:46,479 --> 01:41:49,639
Speaker 6: make it faster and more affordable to build. The development

1735
01:41:49,640 --> 01:41:52,880
Speaker 6: approval process for building affordable housing has been reduced by

1736
01:41:52,920 --> 01:41:56,439
Speaker 6: more than two years by the administration's implementation of the

1737
01:41:56,520 --> 01:42:01,280
Speaker 6: new voter approved Expediated Land Use Review recedure, combined with

1738
01:42:01,320 --> 01:42:04,720
Speaker 6: a new program called the Neighborhood Builder's Fast Track, which

1739
01:42:04,720 --> 01:42:07,799
Speaker 6: will pre select qualified developers to shorten the pre development

1740
01:42:07,880 --> 01:42:11,840
Speaker 6: timeline by eight months for certain projects. On city owned land.

1741
01:42:12,920 --> 01:42:17,560
Speaker 6: Another of Zorn's core campaign promises was universal childcare. On

1742
01:42:17,680 --> 01:42:20,720
Speaker 6: his eighth day in office, Mayramdani announced a partnership with

1743
01:42:20,840 --> 01:42:24,519
Speaker 6: Governor Kathy Hockel to provide free childcare for thousands of

1744
01:42:24,600 --> 01:42:26,840
Speaker 6: two year olds in New York City with a one

1745
01:42:26,920 --> 01:42:31,080
Speaker 6: point two billion dollar increase in state funding. Since then,

1746
01:42:31,240 --> 01:42:34,320
Speaker 6: the mayor has expanded the free three K program for

1747
01:42:34,439 --> 01:42:37,080
Speaker 6: three year olds to more than half of all school

1748
01:42:37,080 --> 01:42:40,439
Speaker 6: districts in the city, and announced two K fall enrollment

1749
01:42:40,600 --> 01:42:44,439
Speaker 6: for school districts eighteen, twenty three, ten six, and twenty seven,

1750
01:42:44,960 --> 01:42:49,120
Speaker 6: which serve lower income neighborhoods. Two K applications open for

1751
01:42:49,200 --> 01:42:52,439
Speaker 6: the first time on June second, with the program operating

1752
01:42:52,520 --> 01:42:54,800
Speaker 6: on a full day schedule from eight am to six

1753
01:42:54,880 --> 01:42:58,320
Speaker 6: pm all year round. As a part of the three

1754
01:42:58,439 --> 01:43:03,120
Speaker 6: K expansion, seven new early childcare education centers are opening

1755
01:43:03,240 --> 01:43:06,360
Speaker 6: in Western Queens, Staten Island, South Brooklyn, and the South

1756
01:43:06,400 --> 01:43:09,960
Speaker 6: Bronx and On March thirtieth, the mayor announced the city's

1757
01:43:10,040 --> 01:43:14,040
Speaker 6: first pilot program for free on site childcare for city workers,

1758
01:43:14,520 --> 01:43:18,320
Speaker 6: based at the David Dinkins Municipal Building, with applications opening

1759
01:43:18,479 --> 01:43:22,040
Speaker 6: on April thirtieth. The city also created a new accessible

1760
01:43:22,160 --> 01:43:25,719
Speaker 6: childcare provider map with interactive features to filter by location,

1761
01:43:26,080 --> 01:43:28,880
Speaker 6: age group, and cost. The mayor says that all these

1762
01:43:28,920 --> 01:43:32,240
Speaker 6: steps will lead to free childcare for every three year

1763
01:43:32,280 --> 01:43:34,560
Speaker 6: old and two year old in the city by the

1764
01:43:34,760 --> 01:43:38,840
Speaker 6: end of his first term. Another key promise was fast

1765
01:43:38,960 --> 01:43:42,400
Speaker 6: and free buses. The administration is making headway on the

1766
01:43:42,600 --> 01:43:46,240
Speaker 6: fast part by building more bus lanes, redesigning streets, as

1767
01:43:46,280 --> 01:43:49,240
Speaker 6: well as adding protected by clanes on mcguinnis Boulevard, thirty

1768
01:43:49,280 --> 01:43:54,320
Speaker 6: first Street in Astoria, Ashland Place across Flatbush, East, Flatbush, Midwood,

1769
01:43:54,600 --> 01:43:59,240
Speaker 6: and Brooklyn and Kingston Avenues in central Brooklyn. Amdani restarted

1770
01:43:59,400 --> 01:44:03,559
Speaker 6: the Stall Madison Ave bus lane redesign to make buses

1771
01:44:03,680 --> 01:44:07,599
Speaker 6: faster and more reliable for ninety two thousand daily riders.

1772
01:44:08,240 --> 01:44:10,679
Speaker 6: The city announced a new bus lane for the Bronx

1773
01:44:10,800 --> 01:44:14,400
Speaker 6: crosstown bus service to Yankee Stadium and restarted the Fordham

1774
01:44:14,479 --> 01:44:17,719
Speaker 6: Road bus Lane project to improve the busiest bus corridor

1775
01:44:17,760 --> 01:44:20,400
Speaker 6: in the Bronx, servicing an average of one hundred and

1776
01:44:20,520 --> 01:44:24,599
Speaker 6: thirty thousand daily riders across four routes. Just this week,

1777
01:44:24,800 --> 01:44:28,400
Speaker 6: construction began in Brooklyn for the redesign of Flatbush Avenue

1778
01:44:28,760 --> 01:44:30,760
Speaker 6: with the goal of improving bus speeds by over forty

1779
01:44:30,800 --> 01:44:33,759
Speaker 6: percent for one hundred and thirty two thousand daily riders,

1780
01:44:34,439 --> 01:44:38,120
Speaker 6: and before the World Cup this summer, Zoron has promised

1781
01:44:38,160 --> 01:44:42,120
Speaker 6: to complete new bike lanes and pedestrian upgrades in Lower Manhattan.

1782
01:44:43,080 --> 01:44:46,519
Speaker 6: As for the free part, that will be a bit harder.

1783
01:44:46,920 --> 01:44:49,559
Speaker 6: Mamdani maintains that his administration is working with the state

1784
01:44:49,600 --> 01:44:53,000
Speaker 6: government in Albany and the MTA to eventually make New

1785
01:44:53,120 --> 01:44:56,439
Speaker 6: York City buses free, and proposed a five week free

1786
01:44:56,640 --> 01:45:00,799
Speaker 6: bus pilot program during the World Cup. Nope, it's unclear

1787
01:45:00,920 --> 01:45:14,559
Speaker 6: if that will happen. It's not all sunshine and rainbows

1788
01:45:14,640 --> 01:45:18,519
Speaker 6: in New York City. Upon taking office, Mayor Mumdani discovered

1789
01:45:18,520 --> 01:45:21,360
Speaker 6: the city was facing an unexpected financial crisis in the

1790
01:45:21,439 --> 01:45:24,920
Speaker 6: form of a hidden twelve billion dollar deficit left by

1791
01:45:25,080 --> 01:45:29,080
Speaker 6: former Mayor Eric Adams, stemming from years of fiscal mismanagement

1792
01:45:29,360 --> 01:45:31,880
Speaker 6: and the under budgeting of essential services like rental and

1793
01:45:31,960 --> 01:45:36,679
Speaker 6: cash assistance, shelters, health insurance, and special ad as. Mayor

1794
01:45:37,120 --> 01:45:40,320
Speaker 6: Eric Adams covered up this massive budget deficit by leaving

1795
01:45:40,400 --> 01:45:44,160
Speaker 6: the gaps grossly understated, gaps that were made worse by

1796
01:45:44,280 --> 01:45:47,240
Speaker 6: divestment in New York City by the state under former

1797
01:45:47,280 --> 01:45:51,080
Speaker 6: Governor Andrew Cuomo. The mayor is actually required by law

1798
01:45:51,240 --> 01:45:54,479
Speaker 6: to have a balanced budget, so rather than sweeping this

1799
01:45:54,600 --> 01:45:57,080
Speaker 6: under the rug by continuing to cook the city's books

1800
01:45:57,160 --> 01:46:01,519
Speaker 6: like his predecessor, Zoron chose transparency about the financial crisis

1801
01:46:01,680 --> 01:46:05,360
Speaker 6: he's inherited and signed an executive order to designate chief

1802
01:46:05,520 --> 01:46:09,840
Speaker 6: savings officers in every city agency to streamline processes and

1803
01:46:10,000 --> 01:46:14,280
Speaker 6: eliminate waste. Some of these savings so far include canceling

1804
01:46:14,640 --> 01:46:19,000
Speaker 6: twenty thousand dollars of Slack subscriptions to saving one hundreds

1805
01:46:19,040 --> 01:46:23,160
Speaker 6: of thousands of dollars by foregoing vacant office space. Through

1806
01:46:23,240 --> 01:46:26,439
Speaker 6: his relationship with Governor Kathy Hochel, the mayor secured one

1807
01:46:26,520 --> 01:46:30,439
Speaker 6: point five billion dollars in state aid in February that,

1808
01:46:30,800 --> 01:46:34,240
Speaker 6: combined with higher than expected Wall Street revenues and savings measures,

1809
01:46:34,760 --> 01:46:39,679
Speaker 6: shrunk the deficit to five point four billion. Zoron's preliminary budget,

1810
01:46:39,760 --> 01:46:44,480
Speaker 6: released last February, sparked criticism for failing short of promises

1811
01:46:44,560 --> 01:46:49,439
Speaker 6: to increase funding to parks and libraries. While campaigning, Zoron

1812
01:46:49,479 --> 01:46:52,880
Speaker 6: advocated for city libraries to receive zero point five percent

1813
01:46:53,000 --> 01:46:56,760
Speaker 6: of the city budget, but the preliminary budget only allocated

1814
01:46:56,880 --> 01:47:00,000
Speaker 6: point three nine percent, which is actually a twenty nine

1815
01:47:00,080 --> 01:47:03,479
Speaker 6: nine million dollar cut from the last Adams budget down

1816
01:47:03,560 --> 01:47:07,800
Speaker 6: to four hundred and fifty six million dollars. Meanwhile, the

1817
01:47:07,880 --> 01:47:11,240
Speaker 6: park budget remained effectively flat at about zero point five percent,

1818
01:47:11,880 --> 01:47:13,840
Speaker 6: rather than boosting it to one percent of the total

1819
01:47:13,840 --> 01:47:18,960
Speaker 6: budget as Mamdani previously hoped. Though in March, Mayor Mamdani

1820
01:47:19,000 --> 01:47:23,000
Speaker 6: announced new capital investment of fifty million dollars to reconstruct

1821
01:47:23,360 --> 01:47:28,080
Speaker 6: ten parks in underserved neighborhoods. This February budget is preliminary

1822
01:47:28,160 --> 01:47:31,479
Speaker 6: and subject to change as Zoron's negotiations with the city

1823
01:47:31,560 --> 01:47:36,320
Speaker 6: council and the state continue. In February, Mamdani reversed a

1824
01:47:36,439 --> 01:47:41,240
Speaker 6: previous policy against the force removal of homeless encampments after

1825
01:47:41,360 --> 01:47:44,599
Speaker 6: twenty people died in the street during a horrific blizzard

1826
01:47:44,760 --> 01:47:48,280
Speaker 6: and sudden cold snap in late January. Despite the efforts

1827
01:47:48,400 --> 01:47:52,080
Speaker 6: of outreach workers visiting known homeless people every two hours

1828
01:47:52,160 --> 01:47:54,679
Speaker 6: to offer warm shelter and check if they needed help,

1829
01:47:55,640 --> 01:47:59,080
Speaker 6: fourteen hundred people were placed into shelters and warming centers

1830
01:47:59,200 --> 01:48:03,480
Speaker 6: during that first time freeze, with eighty five people involuntarily

1831
01:48:03,640 --> 01:48:07,560
Speaker 6: moved or hospitalized. The new encampment SPEEP policy will be

1832
01:48:07,680 --> 01:48:10,439
Speaker 6: led by the Department of Homeless Services rather than the

1833
01:48:10,640 --> 01:48:14,479
Speaker 6: NYPD as they were under Eric Adams, which mcdonnie said

1834
01:48:14,520 --> 01:48:17,080
Speaker 6: put homeless New Yorkers in danger and was ineffective in

1835
01:48:17,200 --> 01:48:20,840
Speaker 6: moving people into shelter or housing. Under the new plan,

1836
01:48:21,080 --> 01:48:24,519
Speaker 6: after posting a removal notice, outreach workers will visit encampments

1837
01:48:24,560 --> 01:48:27,360
Speaker 6: every day for a week with the goal of connecting

1838
01:48:27,360 --> 01:48:30,360
Speaker 6: people to shelter and establishing a pipeline to stable housing,

1839
01:48:31,000 --> 01:48:34,559
Speaker 6: while opening new shelters across the city, including New York

1840
01:48:34,600 --> 01:48:38,879
Speaker 6: City's first ever pet inclusive transitional housing facility for families.

1841
01:48:39,880 --> 01:48:43,120
Speaker 6: Much of the criticism levied at Zoran revolves around his

1842
01:48:43,240 --> 01:48:47,719
Speaker 6: choice to retain NYPD Commissioner Jessica Tish, something he announced

1843
01:48:47,800 --> 01:48:51,320
Speaker 6: before of the election. Zoron did cancel and Eric adams

1844
01:48:51,439 --> 01:48:55,960
Speaker 6: plan to add five thousand more NYPD officers, but as promised,

1845
01:48:56,040 --> 01:48:59,879
Speaker 6: their budget remained effectively the same despite the financial deficit.

1846
01:49:00,600 --> 01:49:04,680
Speaker 6: But Tish specifically has been seen as a rare moderating

1847
01:49:04,840 --> 01:49:08,200
Speaker 6: force in the administration, an outlier that may be preventing

1848
01:49:08,320 --> 01:49:12,360
Speaker 6: police reforms that Zoron campaigned on like disbanding the SRG,

1849
01:49:12,560 --> 01:49:16,280
Speaker 6: the Strategic Response Group tasked with responding to both protests

1850
01:49:16,560 --> 01:49:20,000
Speaker 6: and terrorism, as well as getting rid of the NYPD

1851
01:49:20,240 --> 01:49:24,040
Speaker 6: gang database. Critics have noted that Zoron seems to be

1852
01:49:24,120 --> 01:49:28,080
Speaker 6: moving towards quote unquote reforms of the gang database rather

1853
01:49:28,120 --> 01:49:31,120
Speaker 6: than his previous call to get rid of it, saying

1854
01:49:31,160 --> 01:49:34,000
Speaker 6: in early April, quote I've made my critiques of the

1855
01:49:34,080 --> 01:49:37,800
Speaker 6: database clear, and the NYPD has also implemented a number

1856
01:49:37,840 --> 01:49:41,000
Speaker 6: of reforms as per the recommendation that came through, and

1857
01:49:41,120 --> 01:49:44,000
Speaker 6: the implementation of those reforms and the results of that

1858
01:49:44,280 --> 01:49:47,879
Speaker 6: are part of the active discussion that we are having unquote.

1859
01:49:48,920 --> 01:49:51,280
Speaker 6: The gang database in New York has shrunk by forty

1860
01:49:51,320 --> 01:49:55,200
Speaker 6: percent in the last two years. As for the SRG,

1861
01:49:55,920 --> 01:49:59,400
Speaker 6: Mayor Mamdani still maintains that he remains quote steadfast in

1862
01:49:59,479 --> 01:50:02,320
Speaker 6: my commitment to disband the SRG, to do so in

1863
01:50:02,360 --> 01:50:04,800
Speaker 6: a manner that upholds both First Amendment rights of New

1864
01:50:04,880 --> 01:50:07,800
Speaker 6: Yorkers and keeps New Yorkers safe, and that is the

1865
01:50:07,880 --> 01:50:11,599
Speaker 6: subject of an active conversation that we are having unquote.

1866
01:50:12,400 --> 01:50:16,000
Speaker 6: Commissioner Tish has been particularly resistant to the idea of

1867
01:50:16,120 --> 01:50:20,240
Speaker 6: disbanding the SRG, though earlier this month, Mayor Mumdani's chief

1868
01:50:20,280 --> 01:50:24,080
Speaker 6: of staff, Elbasgard Church, said on the News that the

1869
01:50:24,120 --> 01:50:27,960
Speaker 6: administration remains committed to fulfilling the campaign promise of disbanding

1870
01:50:28,000 --> 01:50:30,400
Speaker 6: the SRG, and that a delegation of City Hall and

1871
01:50:30,560 --> 01:50:34,519
Speaker 6: NYPD officials traveled to Columbus, Ohio to learn about their

1872
01:50:34,640 --> 01:50:38,840
Speaker 6: protest policing model focused on quote communication and quote de

1873
01:50:39,080 --> 01:50:42,599
Speaker 6: escalation over mass arrests and aggressive force.

1874
01:50:42,920 --> 01:50:47,160
Speaker 3: The commitment is to disband the SRG, and I think

1875
01:50:47,280 --> 01:50:51,360
Speaker 3: that the Columbus visit showcases that we are committed to

1876
01:50:51,439 --> 01:50:53,840
Speaker 3: a really disciplined approach here. We want it to work,

1877
01:50:53,880 --> 01:50:56,640
Speaker 3: and we want to do it in collaboration with the NYPD.

1878
01:50:57,160 --> 01:51:01,040
Speaker 3: So the Mayor is in regular conversation with his police Commissioner,

1879
01:51:01,200 --> 01:51:03,960
Speaker 3: and our teams also meet regularly so that we can

1880
01:51:04,040 --> 01:51:07,639
Speaker 3: design something that is best suited to that commitment being

1881
01:51:07,680 --> 01:51:10,960
Speaker 3: fulfilled and not compromising any of the safety and the

1882
01:51:11,000 --> 01:51:12,280
Speaker 3: protection that New Yorkers deserve.

1883
01:51:12,840 --> 01:51:15,360
Speaker 6: In an April interview, may Or mam Donni did express

1884
01:51:15,360 --> 01:51:17,760
Speaker 6: to The New York Times that when unable to reach

1885
01:51:17,760 --> 01:51:20,200
Speaker 6: an agreement with TISH, he does have the power to

1886
01:51:20,320 --> 01:51:24,519
Speaker 6: overrule her on police policy if needed. Quote. Ultimately, I

1887
01:51:24,680 --> 01:51:28,280
Speaker 6: hold the final decision, no matter which department or agency

1888
01:51:28,360 --> 01:51:32,000
Speaker 6: we're speaking about. On quote, Mam Donnie has not exercised

1889
01:51:32,040 --> 01:51:36,040
Speaker 6: this power with the NYPD as of yet. In March,

1890
01:51:36,280 --> 01:51:39,840
Speaker 6: Zoron took the first step in establishing the Department of

1891
01:51:40,000 --> 01:51:44,360
Speaker 6: Community Safety by opening the Office of Community Safety, led

1892
01:51:44,400 --> 01:51:48,160
Speaker 6: by Deputy Mayor Ronita Francois, who directed de Blasio's Action

1893
01:51:48,360 --> 01:51:52,320
Speaker 6: Plan for Neighborhood Safety and advised Campaign Zero, which opposes

1894
01:51:52,439 --> 01:51:56,080
Speaker 6: the Gang Database. The new Office of Community Safety will

1895
01:51:56,080 --> 01:52:00,599
Speaker 6: develop strategies and coordinate efforts to combat gun violence, mental health,

1896
01:52:00,640 --> 01:52:05,640
Speaker 6: crisis response, hate crimes, and substance abuse issues. At the announcement,

1897
01:52:05,760 --> 01:52:09,120
Speaker 6: Francois said, quote, the evidence is clear. Addressing what ails

1898
01:52:09,160 --> 01:52:13,040
Speaker 6: our communities, whether that be crumbling physical infrastructure, social disconnection,

1899
01:52:13,600 --> 01:52:16,800
Speaker 6: or a lack of access to economic opportunity, is how

1900
01:52:16,880 --> 01:52:19,519
Speaker 6: we best ensure that our communities are safe.

1901
01:52:20,000 --> 01:52:20,439
Speaker 2: Unquote.

1902
01:52:21,160 --> 01:52:23,799
Speaker 6: It's too early to judge the impact of the office,

1903
01:52:24,360 --> 01:52:27,360
Speaker 6: but such an office or city department has the potential

1904
01:52:27,479 --> 01:52:31,800
Speaker 6: to challenge the police's monopoly on public safety. The other

1905
01:52:32,080 --> 01:52:36,160
Speaker 6: common critique of Mumdani is based on his endorsement of

1906
01:52:36,400 --> 01:52:39,519
Speaker 6: liberal Governor Kathy Hochel and his decision to focus on

1907
01:52:39,600 --> 01:52:43,559
Speaker 6: governing rather than dedicating resources and political capital towards further

1908
01:52:43,880 --> 01:52:48,360
Speaker 6: uphill primary challenges. Zoran has said, quote, the success of

1909
01:52:48,400 --> 01:52:51,599
Speaker 6: our movement will be defined by the success of our government.

1910
01:52:52,479 --> 01:52:56,280
Speaker 6: Through his working partnership with Governor Hokeel, the mayor has

1911
01:52:56,320 --> 01:52:58,800
Speaker 6: been able to extract wins from the state, particularly for

1912
01:52:59,040 --> 01:53:02,160
Speaker 6: universal childcare and the one point five billion dollars in

1913
01:53:02,320 --> 01:53:07,280
Speaker 6: state aid. In the realm of discourse, some leftists, anarchists

1914
01:53:07,439 --> 01:53:11,519
Speaker 6: or ultras have jumped on any fault or policy shift

1915
01:53:11,880 --> 01:53:14,840
Speaker 6: as a sign that Zoron has wholly moved to the

1916
01:53:14,960 --> 01:53:19,200
Speaker 6: right or betrayed the movement. Such opinions are rewarded by

1917
01:53:19,280 --> 01:53:22,560
Speaker 6: the social media economy, which tends to encourage whatever is

1918
01:53:22,600 --> 01:53:26,280
Speaker 6: seen as the most radical, extreme, or divisive opinion. This

1919
01:53:26,400 --> 01:53:29,759
Speaker 6: tendency has been present even among some of Zoron's earliest

1920
01:53:29,880 --> 01:53:34,360
Speaker 6: online supporters. Behind this tendency is a willingness and frankly

1921
01:53:34,520 --> 01:53:38,160
Speaker 6: hunger to turn on Zoron, not necessarily for anything he

1922
01:53:38,400 --> 01:53:41,679
Speaker 6: has or has not done, but because of the position

1923
01:53:42,040 --> 01:53:47,120
Speaker 6: he now occupies. Zoron used to be an outsider challenging

1924
01:53:47,240 --> 01:53:51,479
Speaker 6: the democratic establishment embodied by Andrew Cuomo, but now he's

1925
01:53:51,520 --> 01:53:54,479
Speaker 6: one of the most popular Democrats in the country. DNC

1926
01:53:54,680 --> 01:53:58,320
Speaker 6: social media accounts are hosting Zoron memes and hype videos.

1927
01:53:59,320 --> 01:54:02,479
Speaker 6: This could be viewed as a massive accomplishment evidence that

1928
01:54:02,520 --> 01:54:06,000
Speaker 6: the Democratic Party can be forced to bend toward left

1929
01:54:06,040 --> 01:54:09,400
Speaker 6: wing populism because of the working class voters and mass

1930
01:54:09,520 --> 01:54:12,840
Speaker 6: organizing that put Zoron in the position he's currently in.

1931
01:54:13,520 --> 01:54:17,920
Speaker 6: But others view Zoron's acceptance and select promotion within the

1932
01:54:18,040 --> 01:54:22,800
Speaker 6: party as a sign he's been corrupted, co opted, recuperated,

1933
01:54:23,160 --> 01:54:27,679
Speaker 6: or made palatable. Both of these things can be partially true.

1934
01:54:28,520 --> 01:54:32,480
Speaker 6: The Democratic elite certainly have their own motives for dipping

1935
01:54:32,560 --> 01:54:35,960
Speaker 6: their toes into the Mamdani hottub, just as Zoron and

1936
01:54:36,040 --> 01:54:39,200
Speaker 6: the New York City DSA have their own aspirations for

1937
01:54:39,320 --> 01:54:42,080
Speaker 6: influencing the direction of the party towards social democracy and

1938
01:54:42,160 --> 01:54:46,240
Speaker 6: democratic socialism. In general, there's a lot of confusion or

1939
01:54:46,320 --> 01:54:50,040
Speaker 6: disagreement on what it means to be a democratic socialist

1940
01:54:50,240 --> 01:54:53,960
Speaker 6: in a position of power. As an executive, Zoron is

1941
01:54:54,000 --> 01:54:57,000
Speaker 6: in a unique position that not many other DSA members

1942
01:54:57,160 --> 01:55:00,840
Speaker 6: have ever had, being in such a position of power

1943
01:55:01,400 --> 01:55:05,160
Speaker 6: informs and shapes the way someone interacts with the systems

1944
01:55:05,280 --> 01:55:08,600
Speaker 6: of party and state in a way that those outside

1945
01:55:08,640 --> 01:55:15,040
Speaker 6: of power cannot fully understand. It filters ideology into material actions.

1946
01:55:15,600 --> 01:55:20,400
Speaker 6: This idea frightens many, but differences in political horizons also

1947
01:55:20,480 --> 01:55:24,160
Speaker 6: affect the way people interact and move with these systems.

1948
01:55:25,000 --> 01:55:27,440
Speaker 6: The question is not what should Zoron do if there

1949
01:55:27,480 --> 01:55:30,880
Speaker 6: were no constraints on his power, because then obviously he

1950
01:55:30,960 --> 01:55:35,640
Speaker 6: should just implement utopian communism. But his power obviously does

1951
01:55:35,800 --> 01:55:38,360
Speaker 6: have constraints if the goal for the left is to

1952
01:55:38,440 --> 01:55:41,560
Speaker 6: build a working class movement to that end, as a

1953
01:55:41,680 --> 01:55:45,320
Speaker 6: function of Zoron's constraints, it may actually be more effective

1954
01:55:45,320 --> 01:55:48,680
Speaker 6: for him to operate down certain state pathways that allow

1955
01:55:48,800 --> 01:55:52,040
Speaker 6: him to facilitate the building of a working class movement

1956
01:55:52,640 --> 01:55:56,560
Speaker 6: and avoid other more extreme pathways that, because of the

1957
01:55:56,680 --> 01:55:59,760
Speaker 6: current constraints on executive power, would either be in af

1958
01:55:59,800 --> 01:56:04,600
Speaker 6: fect at best or self destructive at worst. As the mayor,

1959
01:56:04,800 --> 01:56:08,200
Speaker 6: Zoron's job is to run the biggest city in the country,

1960
01:56:08,800 --> 01:56:12,320
Speaker 6: and as a democratic socialist that means using government to

1961
01:56:12,440 --> 01:56:16,160
Speaker 6: make life better for the working class. His task is

1962
01:56:16,240 --> 01:56:19,440
Speaker 6: to govern in a way that alleviates economic conditions to

1963
01:56:19,480 --> 01:56:22,520
Speaker 6: make it easier to organize and build a working class movement.

1964
01:56:23,120 --> 01:56:27,880
Speaker 6: But building that movement is not his job. It's yours.

1965
01:56:28,480 --> 01:56:30,720
Speaker 6: It's the job of the people, and such a movement

1966
01:56:30,880 --> 01:56:34,920
Speaker 6: is the only way of holding elected leaders like Zoron accountable.

1967
01:56:35,800 --> 01:56:38,760
Speaker 6: Zoron is not a revolutionary nor is he an organizer.

1968
01:56:39,320 --> 01:56:41,880
Speaker 6: He's the mayor of New York City, and as mayor,

1969
01:56:42,040 --> 01:56:44,680
Speaker 6: he has to serve more than eight million New Yorkers,

1970
01:56:45,200 --> 01:56:48,680
Speaker 6: not just the fourteen thousand members of New York City DSA.

1971
01:56:49,400 --> 01:56:52,080
Speaker 6: The mayor may join the picket line with striking nurses

1972
01:56:52,200 --> 01:56:54,880
Speaker 6: and fight for working class New Yorkers in city Hall,

1973
01:56:55,640 --> 01:56:58,600
Speaker 6: or even open an office of mass Engagement, like Zoron

1974
01:56:58,640 --> 01:57:02,160
Speaker 6: has done, but it is up to those outside city

1975
01:57:02,200 --> 01:57:05,840
Speaker 6: Hall to move in tandem by working to rebuild a

1976
01:57:05,960 --> 01:57:10,200
Speaker 6: labor movement. Assuming that Zoron or some random public official

1977
01:57:10,520 --> 01:57:13,520
Speaker 6: can just do whatever is the most extreme radical thing

1978
01:57:14,400 --> 01:57:17,520
Speaker 6: mistakingly sees the state as having more power than it

1979
01:57:17,600 --> 01:57:21,800
Speaker 6: actually does. People often see the state as an ahistorical,

1980
01:57:21,960 --> 01:57:25,600
Speaker 6: abstracted seat of power, but no, the state is just

1981
01:57:25,760 --> 01:57:29,240
Speaker 6: the mediator between capital and labor. The power of the

1982
01:57:29,280 --> 01:57:32,360
Speaker 6: state to support labor is exercised by doing things that

1983
01:57:32,440 --> 01:57:35,480
Speaker 6: are in the interest of labor and society as a whole,

1984
01:57:35,960 --> 01:57:39,400
Speaker 6: rather than just capital. But this ability is directly linked

1985
01:57:39,600 --> 01:57:43,320
Speaker 6: to the extent that labor is organized. So if labor

1986
01:57:43,440 --> 01:57:47,080
Speaker 6: is largely unorganized, then Zoron is more restrained in what

1987
01:57:47,280 --> 01:57:50,440
Speaker 6: he can do. What he can do then is use

1988
01:57:50,560 --> 01:57:54,000
Speaker 6: his position to help build working class power, which will

1989
01:57:54,040 --> 01:57:57,160
Speaker 6: then enable him further so on and so on. The

1990
01:57:57,240 --> 01:58:01,400
Speaker 6: state has no power against capital outside of the power

1991
01:58:01,560 --> 01:58:06,120
Speaker 6: that labor gives it. Our situation is one where capital

1992
01:58:06,280 --> 01:58:09,600
Speaker 6: is very strong, which means when the state serves capital

1993
01:58:09,680 --> 01:58:13,280
Speaker 6: it's quite strong, but in its function of serving labor

1994
01:58:13,800 --> 01:58:16,680
Speaker 6: it's rather weak. Because the left is failed to reckon

1995
01:58:16,760 --> 01:58:20,920
Speaker 6: with the fact that right now labor is actually quite weak,

1996
01:58:21,440 --> 01:58:24,600
Speaker 6: which means that state actors, even those on the pro

1997
01:58:24,800 --> 01:58:28,280
Speaker 6: labor left, are very constrained. So the main thing they

1998
01:58:28,360 --> 01:58:31,880
Speaker 6: can do to strengthen labor is providing better conditions for

1999
01:58:32,000 --> 01:58:36,960
Speaker 6: which labor power may be built, and importantly, organizers must

2000
01:58:37,120 --> 01:58:42,040
Speaker 6: utilize those conditions to build the labor movement. Zorn's other

2001
01:58:42,160 --> 01:58:45,720
Speaker 6: task is to demonstrate that left wing working class politics

2002
01:58:46,160 --> 01:58:49,880
Speaker 6: can actually govern, not just critique whether or not he

2003
01:58:50,000 --> 01:58:53,160
Speaker 6: succeeds at governing and delivering for working class New Yorkers,

2004
01:58:53,720 --> 01:58:58,720
Speaker 6: determines the perceived viability of democratic socialist politics nationally going forward.

2005
01:58:59,200 --> 01:59:02,480
Speaker 6: As Mamdani has said, the worth of an ideology can

2006
01:59:02,560 --> 01:59:16,240
Speaker 6: only be judged by its delivery. Mamdani is not the

2007
01:59:16,360 --> 01:59:19,360
Speaker 6: first democratic socialist to be put in such a position.

2008
01:59:19,960 --> 01:59:23,240
Speaker 6: In his one hundred day address, Mayor Mumdanni spoke about

2009
01:59:23,320 --> 01:59:26,880
Speaker 6: the so called sewer socialists of Milwaukee, Wisconsin, who one

2010
01:59:27,000 --> 01:59:30,480
Speaker 6: hundred years ago quote built the greatest public park system

2011
01:59:30,600 --> 01:59:33,200
Speaker 6: in the nation, and whether the Great Depression better than

2012
01:59:33,240 --> 01:59:37,640
Speaker 6: almost any other American city, Milwaukee purged corruption, built the

2013
01:59:37,760 --> 01:59:40,960
Speaker 6: first municipally sponsored public housing development in the nation, and

2014
01:59:41,200 --> 01:59:46,480
Speaker 6: transformed the city's sewage disposal system unquote. Mayor Mamdani is

2015
01:59:46,560 --> 01:59:50,480
Speaker 6: trying to revive this legacy of municipal socialism by acting

2016
01:59:50,560 --> 01:59:53,440
Speaker 6: on his mantra there is no problem too big, no

2017
01:59:53,640 --> 01:59:57,760
Speaker 6: task too small. On day six of office, Mamdani fixed

2018
01:59:57,800 --> 02:00:02,520
Speaker 6: the infamous Williamsburg break bump that has long plague cyclists,

2019
02:00:03,040 --> 02:00:07,120
Speaker 6: and in response to the historic winter damage affecting city streets,

2020
02:00:07,360 --> 02:00:11,640
Speaker 6: the administration launched a five borough pothole blitz filling one

2021
02:00:11,760 --> 02:00:15,040
Speaker 6: hundred thousand potholes in less than one hundred days.

2022
02:00:16,320 --> 02:00:20,080
Speaker 5: This is pothole politics, our twenty twenty six answer to

2023
02:00:20,160 --> 02:00:25,160
Speaker 5: sewer socialism, where government is not too busy, not too

2024
02:00:25,240 --> 02:00:28,440
Speaker 5: self important, not too mired in paperwork, to fix the

2025
02:00:28,560 --> 02:00:31,240
Speaker 5: problems of the city, no matter their size.

2026
02:00:31,840 --> 02:00:35,919
Speaker 6: This quote unquote pothole politics has extended to scaffolding reforms,

2027
02:00:36,280 --> 02:00:40,080
Speaker 6: reducing the time that sheds clutter our sidewalks. In January,

2028
02:00:40,200 --> 02:00:43,840
Speaker 6: the mayor announced a new program to expand modular public restrooms,

2029
02:00:44,280 --> 02:00:47,440
Speaker 6: and starting this summer, the roof of the historic David

2030
02:00:47,480 --> 02:00:50,240
Speaker 6: Dinkin's Municipal Building will be open to the public for

2031
02:00:50,440 --> 02:00:54,800
Speaker 6: free viewing and tours. Fighting for workers from within city

2032
02:00:54,880 --> 02:00:58,240
Speaker 6: Hall isn't just an abstract ideal. In the first one

2033
02:00:58,320 --> 02:01:02,120
Speaker 6: hundred days, the administration secured nine point three million dollars

2034
02:01:02,240 --> 02:01:02,920
Speaker 6: in restitution.

2035
02:01:03,720 --> 02:01:07,520
Speaker 5: No longer will city government be afraid of its own shadow.

2036
02:01:08,080 --> 02:01:11,080
Speaker 5: If anyone should be afraid, it is those who take

2037
02:01:11,160 --> 02:01:12,560
Speaker 5: advantage of working people.

2038
02:01:13,240 --> 02:01:16,080
Speaker 6: On January fifteenth, the city filed a lawsuit against a

2039
02:01:16,160 --> 02:01:20,240
Speaker 6: predatory delivery app called Moto Click for violating worker laws

2040
02:01:20,400 --> 02:01:23,680
Speaker 6: like minimal pay rate. At the end of January, Zoron

2041
02:01:23,680 --> 02:01:26,840
Speaker 6: announced more than five million dollars in worker restitution and

2042
02:01:26,920 --> 02:01:31,080
Speaker 6: penalties due to minimum pay rate violations from three major

2043
02:01:31,200 --> 02:01:35,480
Speaker 6: restaurant delivery apps, Uber Eats, Phanton and Hungry Panda. This

2044
02:01:35,640 --> 02:01:39,040
Speaker 6: money will be paid to almost fifty thousand workers, and

2045
02:01:39,120 --> 02:01:41,480
Speaker 6: as a part of the settlement, Uber also agreed to

2046
02:01:41,560 --> 02:01:46,600
Speaker 6: reinstate ten thousand wrongfully deactivated delivery workers. In March, the

2047
02:01:46,640 --> 02:01:50,200
Speaker 6: administration won almost two million dollars for over eight hundred

2048
02:01:50,280 --> 02:01:53,320
Speaker 6: fast food workers at Taco Bell and retail workers for

2049
02:01:53,520 --> 02:01:58,480
Speaker 6: violations of worker protection laws against unpredictable scheduling. The mayor

2050
02:01:58,600 --> 02:02:02,880
Speaker 6: signed executive orders strengthening consumer protections by targeting hidden junk

2051
02:02:02,960 --> 02:02:06,919
Speaker 6: fees and impossible to cancel subscriptions, and expanded the protected

2052
02:02:07,040 --> 02:02:11,720
Speaker 6: time off law to four point three million previously unprotected

2053
02:02:11,760 --> 02:02:15,840
Speaker 6: workers and issued compliance warnings to nearly sixty thousand employers.

2054
02:02:16,560 --> 02:02:20,280
Speaker 6: Speaking of sewer socialism, at the end of March, Mayrormamdani

2055
02:02:20,320 --> 02:02:22,920
Speaker 6: announced a one hundred and eight million dollar investment to

2056
02:02:23,080 --> 02:02:26,160
Speaker 6: upgrade and replace more than six thousand and seven hundred

2057
02:02:26,560 --> 02:02:31,320
Speaker 6: water catch basins to combat flooding. This quote unquote pothole politics,

2058
02:02:31,840 --> 02:02:36,880
Speaker 6: least the groundwork of public trust needed for larger systematic transformations.

2059
02:02:37,160 --> 02:02:40,040
Speaker 5: If government can't do the small things, how could you

2060
02:02:40,160 --> 02:02:43,160
Speaker 5: ever trust it to do the big ones? How can

2061
02:02:43,240 --> 02:02:46,320
Speaker 5: we promise to transform our city if we can't pave

2062
02:02:46,560 --> 02:02:47,120
Speaker 5: your street.

2063
02:02:48,120 --> 02:02:50,360
Speaker 6: At the end of the one hundred day Address, Mayor

2064
02:02:50,400 --> 02:02:54,520
Speaker 6: Mamdani made a series of announcements. The administration is restarting

2065
02:02:54,600 --> 02:02:58,560
Speaker 6: trash containerization and will make buses faster for one million

2066
02:02:58,680 --> 02:03:02,360
Speaker 6: New Yorkers by speeding up buses by twenty percent along

2067
02:03:02,520 --> 02:03:06,520
Speaker 6: forty five priority corridors and constructing new rapid bus routes

2068
02:03:06,640 --> 02:03:08,920
Speaker 6: for one hundred thousand New Yorkers who live more than

2069
02:03:09,080 --> 02:03:12,560
Speaker 6: half a mile away from a subway or rail stop.

2070
02:03:13,160 --> 02:03:16,280
Speaker 6: But the big announcement was an update to another of

2071
02:03:16,440 --> 02:03:20,960
Speaker 6: Zoron's core campaign promises. The first of five city owned

2072
02:03:21,040 --> 02:03:24,640
Speaker 6: grocery stores will open next year, with one store being

2073
02:03:24,720 --> 02:03:28,320
Speaker 6: opened in each borough by the end of Mamdani's first term.

2074
02:03:28,880 --> 02:03:31,800
Speaker 6: The location of the Manhattan Municipal grocery store has already

2075
02:03:31,840 --> 02:03:36,120
Speaker 6: been selected. Le Marquetta in East Harlem, a public market

2076
02:03:36,320 --> 02:03:40,280
Speaker 6: opened by the New Deal era Mayor Pharaoh LaGuardia. The

2077
02:03:40,400 --> 02:03:43,280
Speaker 6: city will build a nine thousand square foot store at

2078
02:03:43,320 --> 02:03:47,360
Speaker 6: the site to offer cheaper groceries than the capitalist competitors.

2079
02:03:48,120 --> 02:03:50,600
Speaker 5: I know there are many who use socialists as a

2080
02:03:50,640 --> 02:03:54,680
Speaker 5: dirty word, something to be ashamed of. They can try

2081
02:03:54,800 --> 02:03:57,320
Speaker 5: all they want, but we will not be ashamed of

2082
02:03:57,440 --> 02:04:00,280
Speaker 5: using government to fight for the many, not simply the few.

2083
02:04:06,800 --> 02:04:09,200
Speaker 5: We will not be ashamed of adding more heat pumps

2084
02:04:09,200 --> 02:04:11,920
Speaker 5: to knights of buildings in the Rockaways, or building more

2085
02:04:12,000 --> 02:04:17,240
Speaker 5: supportive housing in Harlem, or standing steadfast alongside our trans neighbors.

2086
02:04:23,320 --> 02:04:26,040
Speaker 5: We will not be ashamed of investing in youth mental

2087
02:04:26,120 --> 02:04:29,200
Speaker 5: health clinics, or working to close rikers, or fighting for

2088
02:04:29,320 --> 02:04:39,040
Speaker 5: immigrants targeted by ice. To any New Yorker, whether you're

2089
02:04:39,120 --> 02:04:42,480
Speaker 5: under attack from the federal government's cruelty or suffocating under

2090
02:04:42,520 --> 02:04:51,280
Speaker 5: the affordability crisis, we will stand beside you because government

2091
02:04:51,440 --> 02:04:54,960
Speaker 5: is a series of choices, and socialism is the choice

2092
02:04:55,000 --> 02:05:01,120
Speaker 5: to fight for every New Yorker to extend democracy from

2093
02:05:01,120 --> 02:05:03,520
Speaker 5: the ballot box to the rest of our lives.

2094
02:05:04,800 --> 02:05:08,880
Speaker 6: Three days after Mamdanie's one hundred day address, on Tax Day,

2095
02:05:08,960 --> 02:05:12,880
Speaker 6: April fifteenth, the mayor announced that he and Governor hokel

2096
02:05:13,120 --> 02:05:16,800
Speaker 6: had agreed to a new tax the Rich proposal. New

2097
02:05:16,920 --> 02:05:20,320
Speaker 6: York State will have its first ever heated tear tax,

2098
02:05:21,160 --> 02:05:23,760
Speaker 6: a wealth tax on second homes in New York City

2099
02:05:24,160 --> 02:05:28,600
Speaker 6: valued above five million dollars owned by out of state elites.

2100
02:05:29,400 --> 02:05:31,920
Speaker 6: This tax on the ultra wealthy is projected to generate

2101
02:05:32,200 --> 02:05:36,640
Speaker 6: five hundred million dollars in annual revenue. And if owners

2102
02:05:36,760 --> 02:05:39,560
Speaker 6: want to avoid the tax by moving into the residence,

2103
02:05:40,120 --> 02:05:42,920
Speaker 6: that's fine too, because then they'll have to pay New

2104
02:05:43,000 --> 02:05:47,520
Speaker 6: York resident taxes, So you get taxed either way. Part

2105
02:05:47,600 --> 02:05:52,480
Speaker 6: of pushing back against the libertarian ethos in America by

2106
02:05:52,640 --> 02:05:56,080
Speaker 6: showing that government can actually make your life better is

2107
02:05:56,120 --> 02:05:59,920
Speaker 6: actually showing people what local government is doing. Since taking office,

2108
02:06:00,200 --> 02:06:04,040
Speaker 6: Zoron has employed the same widely successful messaging style that

2109
02:06:04,240 --> 02:06:07,440
Speaker 6: helped get him elected to make psays and inform New

2110
02:06:07,520 --> 02:06:10,080
Speaker 6: Yorkers about what the administration has been able to accomplish.

2111
02:06:10,800 --> 02:06:14,200
Speaker 6: This is something Democrats have largely failed to do by

2112
02:06:14,280 --> 02:06:17,360
Speaker 6: either just not doing this sort of outreach while governing,

2113
02:06:17,920 --> 02:06:21,960
Speaker 6: making any outreach inaccessible or hard to understand, or having

2114
02:06:22,040 --> 02:06:24,800
Speaker 6: your outreach come off as cringe or out of touch.

2115
02:06:25,400 --> 02:06:28,640
Speaker 6: Regardless of how much effort is put into outreach, the

2116
02:06:28,760 --> 02:06:32,360
Speaker 6: people have to also see the improvements being talked about

2117
02:06:32,720 --> 02:06:35,560
Speaker 6: in their own lives or in their own neighborhoods. A

2118
02:06:35,640 --> 02:06:38,760
Speaker 6: dense population and having a cohesive city culture like New

2119
02:06:38,840 --> 02:06:43,080
Speaker 6: York helps with that. Millions of cyclists cross the Williamsburg

2120
02:06:43,160 --> 02:06:46,120
Speaker 6: Bridge every year, so when the mayor fixes the bump

2121
02:06:46,280 --> 02:06:49,520
Speaker 6: during his first week in office, that's an easy reference

2122
02:06:49,600 --> 02:06:53,760
Speaker 6: point for people. The success of the administration's comm strategy

2123
02:06:54,000 --> 02:06:57,960
Speaker 6: has been by using Zoron's popularity to promote the public

2124
02:06:58,000 --> 02:07:02,440
Speaker 6: sector and public sector workers while actually showing people how

2125
02:07:02,680 --> 02:07:06,880
Speaker 6: social services help city residents. As the mayor says, New

2126
02:07:07,000 --> 02:07:11,320
Speaker 6: York belongs to all who live in it. While in office,

2127
02:07:11,600 --> 02:07:16,640
Speaker 6: Zoron has largely declined to explicitly talk about how his

2128
02:07:16,680 --> 02:07:21,200
Speaker 6: administration may impact the future of democratic socialism across the country,

2129
02:07:21,840 --> 02:07:25,560
Speaker 6: instead keeping his vision laser focused on improving the lives

2130
02:07:25,640 --> 02:07:29,040
Speaker 6: of working New Yorkers and making this city more affordable.

2131
02:07:29,560 --> 02:07:32,240
Speaker 6: To quote the mayor, we cannot burden ourselves with the

2132
02:07:32,320 --> 02:07:36,320
Speaker 6: question of what this means beyond this city. But before

2133
02:07:36,400 --> 02:07:39,520
Speaker 6: the mayor went on stage at the one hundred day address,

2134
02:07:40,120 --> 02:07:42,920
Speaker 6: they played a clip of the Progressive New Deal Mayor

2135
02:07:43,240 --> 02:07:47,200
Speaker 6: Fiorello LaGuardia saying that the greatness of New York City

2136
02:07:47,360 --> 02:07:50,600
Speaker 6: is in the services to its people, where public problems

2137
02:07:50,640 --> 02:07:53,800
Speaker 6: are really the problems of all the people, quote. And

2138
02:07:54,000 --> 02:07:58,280
Speaker 6: if we succeed here, surely it can be done elsewhere.

2139
02:07:59,440 --> 02:08:03,520
Speaker 6: When former Socialist Mayor Bernie Sanders made a surprise appearance

2140
02:08:03,920 --> 02:08:07,360
Speaker 6: during Zoron's speech, the Senator spoke about how what's happening

2141
02:08:07,440 --> 02:08:10,320
Speaker 6: in New York is influencing those outside the city.

2142
02:08:11,160 --> 02:08:13,560
Speaker 7: And I want to tell all of you and the mayor,

2143
02:08:14,600 --> 02:08:17,360
Speaker 7: but what you guys are doing here in New York City,

2144
02:08:18,200 --> 02:08:20,720
Speaker 7: it's important not only to the people here.

2145
02:08:21,720 --> 02:08:23,920
Speaker 2: What you are doing, what the mayor is.

2146
02:08:24,000 --> 02:08:30,280
Speaker 7: Doing, is providing hope and inspiration not only to people

2147
02:08:30,520 --> 02:08:35,560
Speaker 7: all across our country, but honestly all across the world.

2148
02:08:37,560 --> 02:08:40,960
Speaker 6: As a part of Mamdani's first one hundred days press circuit,

2149
02:08:41,520 --> 02:08:44,720
Speaker 6: he was asked on CBS News about the future of

2150
02:08:44,800 --> 02:08:49,320
Speaker 6: the Democratic Party and if his socialist politics are really viable.

2151
02:08:49,680 --> 02:08:51,680
Speaker 5: You know, what I find is that New Yorkers asked

2152
02:08:51,680 --> 02:08:53,960
Speaker 5: me less about how I describe my politics and more

2153
02:08:53,960 --> 02:08:57,000
Speaker 5: about whether my politics includes them. And I think what

2154
02:08:57,120 --> 02:09:00,440
Speaker 5: we can see is that a democratic socialist politics is

2155
02:09:00,480 --> 02:09:03,280
Speaker 5: one that should be judged on its delivery, like any ideology,

2156
02:09:03,440 --> 02:09:06,120
Speaker 5: and what we're showing in this city is we can

2157
02:09:06,280 --> 02:09:09,280
Speaker 5: pursue the big things like universal childcare and do the

2158
02:09:09,320 --> 02:09:11,800
Speaker 5: pothole politics at the same time that we're showing and

2159
02:09:11,920 --> 02:09:14,440
Speaker 5: not just filling in the potholes, changing the catch basins,

2160
02:09:14,480 --> 02:09:16,920
Speaker 5: but also repaving over a thousand miles of roadway.

2161
02:09:17,040 --> 02:09:20,960
Speaker 4: But mister Mayor, presidential and statewide elections are often decided

2162
02:09:21,000 --> 02:09:23,360
Speaker 4: in battleground regions that do not look like New York City.

2163
02:09:23,440 --> 02:09:26,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'll be honest with you. Before I was the mayor,

2164
02:09:26,080 --> 02:09:27,680
Speaker 5: I was an assembly member of a story in Long

2165
02:09:27,720 --> 02:09:29,720
Speaker 5: Island City. At that time, I was told that you

2166
02:09:29,800 --> 02:09:32,880
Speaker 5: could only be a Democratic socialist in Northwest Queens. Then

2167
02:09:32,920 --> 02:09:34,840
Speaker 5: I became the mayor. Now the next question is the state.

2168
02:09:34,920 --> 02:09:36,880
Speaker 5: Then it'll be the next question will be the country.

2169
02:09:37,040 --> 02:09:39,480
Speaker 5: I think that this is a politics that can flourish

2170
02:09:39,520 --> 02:09:42,040
Speaker 5: anywhere because, frankly, there is only one majority in this

2171
02:09:42,080 --> 02:09:44,160
Speaker 5: country that's the working class, and it's time we have

2172
02:09:44,200 --> 02:09:46,400
Speaker 5: a politics that puts them at the heart of what

2173
02:09:46,520 --> 02:09:47,600
Speaker 5: it is that we're pursuing and not.

2174
02:09:47,800 --> 02:09:52,320
Speaker 6: As part of the appendix, Mamdanie still has over thirteen

2175
02:09:52,520 --> 02:09:55,960
Speaker 6: hundred days left in his first term, and there will

2176
02:09:55,960 --> 02:09:59,000
Speaker 6: be more challenges along the way, Challenges with the NYPD,

2177
02:09:59,280 --> 02:10:03,840
Speaker 6: the MTA, state government, federal government, the billionaires, and the

2178
02:10:03,880 --> 02:10:08,400
Speaker 6: bloodsucking monsters among the Democratic Party elite. Attempts to hold

2179
02:10:08,560 --> 02:10:13,000
Speaker 6: politicians like Zoron truly accountable to their politics will require

2180
02:10:13,120 --> 02:10:18,360
Speaker 6: more than Twitter, maoists and your small DSA caucus. Navigating

2181
02:10:18,360 --> 02:10:21,560
Speaker 6: all these problems will require not just principal leadership with

2182
02:10:21,680 --> 02:10:25,720
Speaker 6: a commitment to working class politics, but also growing the

2183
02:10:25,880 --> 02:10:30,160
Speaker 6: mass organizing apparatus that helped get Zora elected, and continuing

2184
02:10:30,240 --> 02:10:33,360
Speaker 6: to build power in city hall, state government, and in.

2185
02:10:33,440 --> 02:10:34,680
Speaker 2: The workplace.

2186
02:10:35,800 --> 02:10:36,640
Speaker 6: That does it today.

2187
02:10:36,760 --> 02:10:39,880
Speaker 2: For it could happen here, see you on the other side.

2188
02:10:55,240 --> 02:10:58,880
Speaker 6: This is it could happen here. Executive Disorder, our weekly

2189
02:10:58,920 --> 02:11:01,480
Speaker 6: newscast covering what's happening in the White House, They're crumbling world,

2190
02:11:01,520 --> 02:11:03,680
Speaker 6: and what it means for you. I'm Garrison Davis today

2191
02:11:03,680 --> 02:11:07,560
Speaker 6: I'm joined by James Stout and Robert Evans. This episode

2192
02:11:07,600 --> 02:11:11,839
Speaker 6: recovering the week of April twenty second April thirtieth. Anything

2193
02:11:11,880 --> 02:11:13,280
Speaker 6: anything interesting happened this week?

2194
02:11:13,560 --> 02:11:16,640
Speaker 2: Very little? Not much news? Oh not much?

2195
02:11:16,680 --> 02:11:20,080
Speaker 1: I mean, Garrison, you've joined the ranks of the vaccine injured, right.

2196
02:11:21,680 --> 02:11:25,000
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, yeah, got full, so joining us of four

2197
02:11:25,080 --> 02:11:27,000
Speaker 2: live vaccines inside Garrison's podies.

2198
02:11:27,440 --> 02:11:29,800
Speaker 6: Thank you, thank you for having me and my four

2199
02:11:29,880 --> 02:11:33,240
Speaker 6: live vaccines, which have obliterated my body and mind this

2200
02:11:33,360 --> 02:11:35,400
Speaker 6: week as I scrambled to finish them.

2201
02:11:35,400 --> 02:11:36,200
Speaker 2: I'm Donnie piece.

2202
02:11:37,000 --> 02:11:41,000
Speaker 6: But news happens whether or not I feel bad, So

2203
02:11:41,200 --> 02:11:42,000
Speaker 6: let's get to it.

2204
02:11:42,440 --> 02:11:44,240
Speaker 2: In fact, I seem to happen a lot when we've

2205
02:11:45,360 --> 02:11:47,400
Speaker 2: they need you sometimes conspire us that way.

2206
02:11:47,920 --> 02:11:50,520
Speaker 6: Now we will talk about the thing. Obviously, we'll talk

2207
02:11:50,560 --> 02:11:55,320
Speaker 6: about the thing, but first some smaller news items to start.

2208
02:11:55,960 --> 02:11:59,920
Speaker 6: Congress has voted to end the seventy six day DHS

2209
02:12:00,120 --> 02:12:03,680
Speaker 6: shut down without funding for ice or border patrol. The

2210
02:12:03,720 --> 02:12:06,880
Speaker 6: bill now goes to Trump today and if he signs it,

2211
02:12:06,960 --> 02:12:10,680
Speaker 6: the shutdown will be over. The House voted to reauthorize

2212
02:12:10,880 --> 02:12:14,960
Speaker 6: FAIZA section seven oh two, the warrant list of surveillance authority.

2213
02:12:15,480 --> 02:12:19,320
Speaker 6: Forty two House Democrats voted to reauthorize twenty two Republicans

2214
02:12:19,400 --> 02:12:22,720
Speaker 6: voted against the bills, expected to be stalled in the

2215
02:12:22,760 --> 02:12:25,480
Speaker 6: Senate at least this version of the bill, as it

2216
02:12:25,640 --> 02:12:29,200
Speaker 6: included an amendment about digital currency, which the Senate will

2217
02:12:30,040 --> 02:12:33,680
Speaker 6: fight over. The ATF released a new list of proposed

2218
02:12:33,720 --> 02:12:38,400
Speaker 6: reforms and regulations repealing the Biden pistol brace rule, as

2219
02:12:38,440 --> 02:12:41,880
Speaker 6: well as requiring quote unquote biological sex be used on

2220
02:12:42,040 --> 02:12:46,440
Speaker 6: ATF forms. The State Department is releasing a limited edition

2221
02:12:46,520 --> 02:12:49,200
Speaker 6: passport for the United States two hundred and fiftieth anniversary,

2222
02:12:49,480 --> 02:12:53,320
Speaker 6: featuring a portrait of President Trump superimposed on the Declaration

2223
02:12:53,400 --> 02:12:57,400
Speaker 6: of Independence and an American flag with his golden signature below.

2224
02:12:57,840 --> 02:12:59,840
Speaker 6: Google Trump Golden Signature for more.

2225
02:13:00,120 --> 02:13:02,400
Speaker 1: Look, I'm just gonna say, if we have any foreign

2226
02:13:02,520 --> 02:13:06,480
Speaker 1: border Control agents listening, you have to detain anybody you

2227
02:13:06,520 --> 02:13:07,960
Speaker 1: can see that pass forward.

2228
02:13:10,320 --> 02:13:13,839
Speaker 2: It is now possible for Nicki Minaj, and only Nicki Minaj,

2229
02:13:14,080 --> 02:13:17,680
Speaker 2: to assemble the most unique collection of United States government

2230
02:13:17,720 --> 02:13:20,440
Speaker 2: documents in history if she becomes a citizen, because she

2231
02:13:20,600 --> 02:13:23,880
Speaker 2: is apparently the only recipient of the Gold Card that's

2232
02:13:23,920 --> 02:13:28,480
Speaker 2: the Golden Visa. Yeah, yeah, she could, really, she could

2233
02:13:28,520 --> 02:13:31,120
Speaker 2: really get a unique but you know, Pokemon combination here

2234
02:13:31,200 --> 02:13:33,760
Speaker 2: of I guess she'd have to advance pretty quickly for

2235
02:13:33,800 --> 02:13:36,280
Speaker 2: a moment you would. I'm not clear how one goes

2236
02:13:36,280 --> 02:13:38,960
Speaker 2: from Gold Card citizenship, and the only way we'll find

2237
02:13:38,960 --> 02:13:40,960
Speaker 2: out is by closely following Nicki Minaj.

2238
02:13:41,640 --> 02:13:44,960
Speaker 6: The DOJ indicted former FBI doctor James Colemy for the

2239
02:13:45,040 --> 02:13:48,680
Speaker 6: second time, this time for posting an Instagram image with

2240
02:13:48,800 --> 02:13:51,040
Speaker 6: the numbers eighty six forty seven.

2241
02:13:52,560 --> 02:13:53,040
Speaker 2: Once again.

2242
02:13:53,280 --> 02:13:57,800
Speaker 6: Trump's FCC is going after Disney's ABC licenses by directing

2243
02:13:57,840 --> 02:14:01,440
Speaker 6: Disney to file an early renewal order after Jimmy Kimmel

2244
02:14:01,480 --> 02:14:03,680
Speaker 6: made a joke a few days before the White House

2245
02:14:03,680 --> 02:14:07,360
Speaker 6: Correspondents Dinner about First Lady Milania Trump having the quote

2246
02:14:07,520 --> 02:14:11,040
Speaker 6: glow of an expectant widow. It pains me to say

2247
02:14:11,120 --> 02:14:15,000
Speaker 6: critical support to Jimmy Kimmel. President Trump, David Allison, Todd

2248
02:14:15,040 --> 02:14:18,520
Speaker 6: Blanche Stephen Miller, Barry Weiss, Paramount's chief legal officer, and

2249
02:14:18,680 --> 02:14:23,200
Speaker 6: several CBS journalists met in a closed door dinner in Washington,

2250
02:14:23,240 --> 02:14:25,960
Speaker 6: d C. Last week, as the Paramount buyout of Warner

2251
02:14:26,040 --> 02:14:31,560
Speaker 6: Brothers and CNN progresses nightmare blunt rotation. Main Governor Janet

2252
02:14:31,680 --> 02:14:36,160
Speaker 6: Mills vetoed the state's eighteen month data center moratorium, the

2253
02:14:36,200 --> 02:14:39,160
Speaker 6: first of its kind in the country. Days later, Mills

2254
02:14:39,240 --> 02:14:41,160
Speaker 6: dropped out of the Senate race, paving the way for

2255
02:14:41,360 --> 02:14:45,160
Speaker 6: populist candidate Graham Plattner to receive the Democratic nomination and

2256
02:14:45,280 --> 02:14:47,640
Speaker 6: go up against Susan Collins in the midterms.

2257
02:14:48,160 --> 02:14:50,920
Speaker 2: Mister dem seemed to already be behind Amosaur post from

2258
02:14:51,000 --> 02:14:53,760
Speaker 2: the Democrats account Patrick Graham.

2259
02:14:54,400 --> 02:14:57,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's going to be interesting to see how the

2260
02:14:57,280 --> 02:14:59,720
Speaker 1: Democratic Party kind of falls in line behind this guy,

2261
02:15:00,320 --> 02:15:03,440
Speaker 1: given the fairly unique degree of controversy over the Nazi

2262
02:15:03,560 --> 02:15:05,600
Speaker 1: tattoo and a couple of other things that have come up.

2263
02:15:05,640 --> 02:15:09,040
Speaker 1: But this has been in general, the gap between kind

2264
02:15:09,080 --> 02:15:13,520
Speaker 1: of how random progressives and Democrats online talk about Platner

2265
02:15:13,640 --> 02:15:16,040
Speaker 1: and how people in Maine feel about him has been

2266
02:15:16,120 --> 02:15:17,760
Speaker 1: massive from the jump, and I think a lot of

2267
02:15:17,840 --> 02:15:19,920
Speaker 1: it has to do just with the fact that this

2268
02:15:20,120 --> 02:15:23,880
Speaker 1: guy went about campaigning in a very dedicated way. He

2269
02:15:24,000 --> 02:15:27,960
Speaker 1: visited basically every county that like he could, and it

2270
02:15:28,120 --> 02:15:30,880
Speaker 1: goes to show that the consensus that builds online around

2271
02:15:30,920 --> 02:15:34,040
Speaker 1: candidates will never matter as much as like what they're

2272
02:15:34,080 --> 02:15:38,000
Speaker 1: out there actually doing in the world. And it's useful

2273
02:15:38,080 --> 02:15:40,080
Speaker 1: to get a reminder of that, whether or not you

2274
02:15:40,160 --> 02:15:43,200
Speaker 1: think this is a tremendous disaster, just the degree to

2275
02:15:43,280 --> 02:15:45,920
Speaker 1: which all of the talk about this guy online had

2276
02:15:45,960 --> 02:15:49,320
Speaker 1: no impact on his ability to actually like win. Now,

2277
02:15:49,360 --> 02:15:52,440
Speaker 1: this is a unique case. There aren't a whole lot

2278
02:15:52,560 --> 02:15:55,080
Speaker 1: of seats that are like the seat that he's going

2279
02:15:55,160 --> 02:15:57,960
Speaker 1: to be taking, right in terms of like both the

2280
02:15:58,080 --> 02:16:01,640
Speaker 1: weakness of your primary right and the weakness of the

2281
02:16:01,720 --> 02:16:04,080
Speaker 1: other party if you should happen to win the primary. Like,

2282
02:16:04,160 --> 02:16:07,480
Speaker 1: this is not every congressional district, but it's still kind

2283
02:16:07,480 --> 02:16:09,000
Speaker 1: of an interesting case study.

2284
02:16:09,360 --> 02:16:13,080
Speaker 2: Maine is also like it's not California, you know, like Californian,

2285
02:16:13,160 --> 02:16:15,840
Speaker 2: so discourse happens on LANs We're of vast state and

2286
02:16:16,080 --> 02:16:18,560
Speaker 2: you know these big cities Inserche and Maine is different.

2287
02:16:18,600 --> 02:16:21,640
Speaker 2: Like he has good ground game and that matters more there,

2288
02:16:21,760 --> 02:16:22,160
Speaker 2: it seems.

2289
02:16:22,720 --> 02:16:26,200
Speaker 6: And this signifies like a rejection of democratic establishment, yes,

2290
02:16:26,320 --> 02:16:29,320
Speaker 6: sessions like a hunger for change yep. And the fact

2291
02:16:29,320 --> 02:16:31,560
Speaker 6: that someone with all the controversies that come with Platner

2292
02:16:31,680 --> 02:16:34,840
Speaker 6: was able to beat the Democratic establishment I think shows

2293
02:16:34,840 --> 02:16:39,920
Speaker 6: how hungry, how hungry people are to upseat these these

2294
02:16:39,959 --> 02:16:40,920
Speaker 6: bloodsucking monsters.

2295
02:16:41,560 --> 02:16:44,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll keep reporting on that. I'm kind of interested

2296
02:16:44,520 --> 02:16:45,040
Speaker 2: in this race.

2297
02:16:45,760 --> 02:16:48,600
Speaker 6: Yes, no, absolutely, I mean Susan Collins plays a unique

2298
02:16:48,680 --> 02:16:52,000
Speaker 6: role in the Senate right now. M Finally for me,

2299
02:16:52,760 --> 02:16:56,160
Speaker 6: On Saturday, a car bomb exploded at a police station

2300
02:16:56,400 --> 02:17:01,040
Speaker 6: in Dunmurrae, Northern Ireland outside Belfast. A group calling itself

2301
02:17:01,080 --> 02:17:04,320
Speaker 6: the quote unquote New IRA claimed responsibility and a sixty

2302
02:17:04,360 --> 02:17:06,080
Speaker 6: six year old man has been arrested.

2303
02:17:06,760 --> 02:17:12,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, new IRA, sixty six year old man. Well, the

2304
02:17:12,600 --> 02:17:16,200
Speaker 2: new IRAS's it grows out of the real IRA. Right.

2305
02:17:16,520 --> 02:17:19,160
Speaker 2: Was it the new IRA who killed the journalist a

2306
02:17:19,200 --> 02:17:22,520
Speaker 2: few years back in Belfast? You know what, I don't know?

2307
02:17:23,320 --> 02:17:26,880
Speaker 1: The new Ira yep admitted responsibility. Yeah, yeah, that's the

2308
02:17:26,920 --> 02:17:29,480
Speaker 1: new IRA as well. Lara McKee is the name of

2309
02:17:29,600 --> 02:17:32,720
Speaker 1: the journalist who was killed. Okay, I think just out

2310
02:17:32,760 --> 02:17:35,920
Speaker 1: of negligence and incompetence during an action these people were

2311
02:17:35,920 --> 02:17:36,240
Speaker 1: a part of.

2312
02:17:36,440 --> 02:17:39,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is like just before COVID at times. Yeah,

2313
02:17:40,040 --> 02:17:40,720
Speaker 2: I do remember.

2314
02:17:41,680 --> 02:17:41,720
Speaker 7: So.

2315
02:17:42,360 --> 02:17:45,120
Speaker 2: Two large vessels, including a tanker, have been seized by

2316
02:17:45,200 --> 02:17:51,039
Speaker 2: pirates off Somalia. Another attempted hijacking by pirates was prevented.

2317
02:17:51,400 --> 02:17:55,000
Speaker 2: I'm just going to quote the ukmto here quote the

2318
02:17:55,160 --> 02:17:57,400
Speaker 2: master of a cargo vessel was approached by two small

2319
02:17:57,400 --> 02:18:01,119
Speaker 2: fishing vessels with armed persons support. One vessel approached within

2320
02:18:01,200 --> 02:18:04,519
Speaker 2: six hundred meters, warning shots were fired and the suspicious

2321
02:18:04,560 --> 02:18:07,960
Speaker 2: craft returned fire. The suspicious boat moved away and made

2322
02:18:07,959 --> 02:18:10,800
Speaker 2: clear of the vessel. All crew are safe and accounted for.

2323
02:18:11,400 --> 02:18:13,480
Speaker 2: Vessels are advised to transit with caution and report and

2324
02:18:13,520 --> 02:18:17,560
Speaker 2: the suspicious activities to UK MDO authorities are investigating. I

2325
02:18:17,680 --> 02:18:21,480
Speaker 2: saw another incident where a ship had fired a flare

2326
02:18:22,080 --> 02:18:24,920
Speaker 2: people who were allegedly attempting to board it right that,

2327
02:18:25,160 --> 02:18:27,880
Speaker 2: it seems like there has been an uptick an incidant,

2328
02:18:28,240 --> 02:18:32,440
Speaker 2: especially as ships generally are having a hard time right now.

2329
02:18:32,560 --> 02:18:34,560
Speaker 2: The United States has also been boarding a number of

2330
02:18:34,680 --> 02:18:37,400
Speaker 2: vessels to inspect them as part of its blockade on

2331
02:18:37,480 --> 02:18:43,960
Speaker 2: Iran and Iranian goods. Secondly, j NIM that Ali Islam

2332
02:18:44,200 --> 02:18:48,200
Speaker 2: while Muslimin and the Asquad Liberation Front in Mali launched

2333
02:18:48,240 --> 02:18:51,280
Speaker 2: a shock offensive this week that saw them sweep into

2334
02:18:51,320 --> 02:18:54,920
Speaker 2: Mali's capital, assassinate the defense minister, and force the military

2335
02:18:54,959 --> 02:18:58,240
Speaker 2: Hunter and its allied Russian forces to abandon whole cities.

2336
02:18:58,680 --> 02:19:01,640
Speaker 2: They also abandoned a number of bases right there. J

2337
02:19:01,760 --> 02:19:05,160
Speaker 2: and I AM have captured like massive amounts of Russian

2338
02:19:05,200 --> 02:19:09,960
Speaker 2: Africa core material. But this is a pretty ground shaking offensive,

2339
02:19:10,520 --> 02:19:14,680
Speaker 2: a big change for Mali. The Hunter in the Ammar

2340
02:19:15,360 --> 02:19:18,160
Speaker 2: I still keep calling them that they've rebranded themselves as

2341
02:19:18,160 --> 02:19:22,120
Speaker 2: a civilian government. They're not now min A Lang gets

2342
02:19:22,200 --> 02:19:24,680
Speaker 2: retired as a general and just become president and change

2343
02:19:24,720 --> 02:19:27,600
Speaker 2: closed and done the same shit like the Hunter reclaimed

2344
02:19:27,640 --> 02:19:31,400
Speaker 2: Falam this week, which using Chin State. It's capital of

2345
02:19:31,520 --> 02:19:35,200
Speaker 2: Chinn State. Fighting has been happening there for months. I've

2346
02:19:35,240 --> 02:19:37,520
Speaker 2: been talking to people pretty regularly who are taking part

2347
02:19:37,600 --> 02:19:41,640
Speaker 2: in the in the battle there. They're obviously, you know,

2348
02:19:41,680 --> 02:19:45,160
Speaker 2: they lost friends in the battle. They are not happy

2349
02:19:45,200 --> 02:19:47,080
Speaker 2: about this, but I think it's fair to say that

2350
02:19:47,200 --> 02:19:50,959
Speaker 2: spirits among the resistance generally remain pretty high, and they

2351
02:19:51,040 --> 02:19:54,600
Speaker 2: hope that they will return to Palam soon enough. Doug

2352
02:19:54,800 --> 02:19:59,279
Speaker 2: Bergham has announced a United States Geographic is it geographical

2353
02:19:59,360 --> 02:20:02,440
Speaker 2: or geological USGS geological server?

2354
02:20:02,600 --> 02:20:05,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know that because of the film Evolution starring

2355
02:20:05,840 --> 02:20:08,160
Speaker 1: David Dukovn not familiar. This is an important piece of

2356
02:20:08,240 --> 02:20:10,040
Speaker 1: news for the listeners. There was a brief period of

2357
02:20:10,080 --> 02:20:13,160
Speaker 1: time in between X Files and Californication where we thought

2358
02:20:13,200 --> 02:20:16,800
Speaker 1: that David Duchovny might have a career as a comedic actor.

2359
02:20:16,920 --> 02:20:19,720
Speaker 2: And no, he did not that he might have a career.

2360
02:20:22,800 --> 02:20:24,720
Speaker 6: I loved he said a great.

2361
02:20:25,360 --> 02:20:31,240
Speaker 2: Just not as a comedic actor. Yeah, Okay, So, Doug

2362
02:20:31,280 --> 02:20:34,200
Speaker 2: Bergen has announced that the United States Geological Survey found

2363
02:20:34,440 --> 02:20:39,520
Speaker 2: enough lithium to replace three centuries of imports in Appalachia.

2364
02:20:39,200 --> 02:20:41,400
Speaker 1: Enough left the end to do that or make one

2365
02:20:41,440 --> 02:20:43,720
Speaker 1: American small town normal for a weekend.

2366
02:20:46,680 --> 02:20:50,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, I want to read from this because it's kind

2367
02:20:50,160 --> 02:20:53,360
Speaker 2: of interesting. Quite the southern Appalachians hold an estimated one

2368
02:20:53,400 --> 02:20:56,200
Speaker 2: point four to three million metric tons of lithium oxide

2369
02:20:56,959 --> 02:21:00,920
Speaker 2: concentrated in the Carolinas, and the Northern Appalachians estimated nine

2370
02:21:01,040 --> 02:21:04,800
Speaker 2: hundred thousand metric tons concentrated in Maine and New Hampshire,

2371
02:21:05,120 --> 02:21:08,640
Speaker 2: according to estimates in a new USGS scientific paper. That

2372
02:21:08,800 --> 02:21:11,840
Speaker 2: is like, I guess Big Appalachia like going up into

2373
02:21:11,920 --> 02:21:18,519
Speaker 2: Maine there Leaving that aside. Lithium mining is incredibly disruptive

2374
02:21:18,720 --> 02:21:21,880
Speaker 2: to the environment. Right Generally, there's two ways you could

2375
02:21:21,879 --> 02:21:23,640
Speaker 2: do it. You can extract it from brine like they

2376
02:21:23,680 --> 02:21:26,119
Speaker 2: do in Chile, and I think other places think they're

2377
02:21:26,120 --> 02:21:29,440
Speaker 2: trying to do that in California. Otherwise it's open pit mining.

2378
02:21:30,440 --> 02:21:33,760
Speaker 2: The water use, energy use, ecological damage will be huge.

2379
02:21:33,959 --> 02:21:38,520
Speaker 2: Potential for disasters is not zero, and the people of

2380
02:21:38,520 --> 02:21:41,960
Speaker 2: apple Lecture should be more than familiar with how this

2381
02:21:42,160 --> 02:21:44,480
Speaker 2: tends to go right. This is the long history of

2382
02:21:45,240 --> 02:21:49,720
Speaker 2: mining and mining disasters. Moving on, Donald Trump has reposted

2383
02:21:49,760 --> 02:21:53,680
Speaker 2: a tweet about changing the name of Ice to nice

2384
02:21:54,760 --> 02:21:57,520
Speaker 2: nice Agents. They should do this. I want them to

2385
02:21:57,600 --> 02:22:03,400
Speaker 2: do this. It would be absolutely disastrous for audio journalism.

2386
02:22:03,480 --> 02:22:05,840
Speaker 1: It's it's it'd be like, look, we understand, you know,

2387
02:22:05,879 --> 02:22:08,000
Speaker 1: it's nineteen forty three. People have a lot of issues

2388
02:22:08,040 --> 02:22:11,240
Speaker 1: with the Gestapo. We're gonna call them the funestoppo now.

2389
02:22:11,600 --> 02:22:16,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, the nice stoppo. Yeah, the great style process now

2390
02:22:16,280 --> 02:22:17,560
Speaker 2: stands for super sweet.

2391
02:22:17,800 --> 02:22:24,120
Speaker 6: Actually, the White House account and the DHS account have

2392
02:22:24,480 --> 02:22:28,480
Speaker 6: posted nice images or hype videos since this as well.

2393
02:22:28,600 --> 02:22:31,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, you have to consider there's like a forty chance

2394
02:22:31,440 --> 02:22:32,480
Speaker 1: this happens at least.

2395
02:22:32,640 --> 02:22:33,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, this might happen.

2396
02:22:34,120 --> 02:22:36,960
Speaker 1: If this could very much happen, Like we're laughing, but

2397
02:22:37,080 --> 02:22:38,120
Speaker 1: this could be the future.

2398
02:22:38,520 --> 02:22:42,480
Speaker 2: Yeah. What does the END stand for national? National? It's

2399
02:22:42,600 --> 02:22:45,640
Speaker 2: just it's what they call a backronym. I know, Garrison

2400
02:22:45,720 --> 02:22:47,400
Speaker 2: with these guys, the N could have stood for a

2401
02:22:47,480 --> 02:22:53,039
Speaker 2: couple of things, you thinks. Yeah, so, uh Trump truth,

2402
02:22:53,280 --> 02:22:57,240
Speaker 2: great idea do it? That is how policy is made

2403
02:22:57,360 --> 02:22:57,920
Speaker 2: these days.

2404
02:22:58,400 --> 02:23:01,440
Speaker 6: This is hugover and policy works now via via truth.

2405
02:23:01,520 --> 02:23:01,680
Speaker 4: Yeah.

2406
02:23:01,720 --> 02:23:03,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, this has made something clear to me that I

2407
02:23:03,520 --> 02:23:05,080
Speaker 1: was kind of dancing around for all, which is that

2408
02:23:05,160 --> 02:23:07,480
Speaker 1: I am in support in general of any policy that

2409
02:23:07,680 --> 02:23:11,200
Speaker 1: just pulls the wool off of people's eyes like this.

2410
02:23:11,520 --> 02:23:13,240
Speaker 1: This is one of those things where it's now should

2411
02:23:13,240 --> 02:23:15,800
Speaker 1: be clearer to even the really stupid people, where we

2412
02:23:15,879 --> 02:23:17,520
Speaker 1: are as a country when we do so, when something

2413
02:23:17,560 --> 02:23:20,000
Speaker 1: like this happens, and so I'm supportive of it, Like

2414
02:23:20,120 --> 02:23:22,640
Speaker 1: we can't have any artifice. The more you dress things up,

2415
02:23:23,040 --> 02:23:26,280
Speaker 1: the more people get deranged. So at least this everyone

2416
02:23:26,400 --> 02:23:27,200
Speaker 1: knows what's happening.

2417
02:23:27,640 --> 02:23:30,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, really clear. I'm also Germany in favor of like

2418
02:23:30,160 --> 02:23:32,200
Speaker 2: they have a budget, it is vast, but it is

2419
02:23:32,240 --> 02:23:34,080
Speaker 2: fixed and if they want to spend it all rewrapping

2420
02:23:34,120 --> 02:23:37,760
Speaker 2: their vehicles to say nice, yeah fine. Also it's gonna

2421
02:23:37,800 --> 02:23:38,840
Speaker 2: make them feel lame.

2422
02:23:39,160 --> 02:23:41,920
Speaker 6: Are they gonna do that by buying end stickers or

2423
02:23:41,959 --> 02:23:43,360
Speaker 6: do they have to get the whole new sticker? Do

2424
02:23:43,400 --> 02:23:44,880
Speaker 6: you think right? Are they slap the end?

2425
02:23:45,160 --> 02:23:48,440
Speaker 2: I hope they just slap it in. I know, if

2426
02:23:48,480 --> 02:23:51,120
Speaker 2: we want to open the open door and I'm having

2427
02:23:51,160 --> 02:23:54,800
Speaker 2: stickers with in on that, yeah, who knows? Garrison they

2428
02:23:55,400 --> 02:23:57,600
Speaker 2: had previously spent quite a lot of money wrapping vehicles,

2429
02:23:57,680 --> 02:24:00,160
Speaker 2: so it's not beyond them to get Maybe they'll get

2430
02:24:00,200 --> 02:24:02,560
Speaker 2: a whole rebrand. Maybe it'll be nice and a picture

2431
02:24:02,560 --> 02:24:05,240
Speaker 2: of someone like holding cake. Or they got to find

2432
02:24:05,320 --> 02:24:08,720
Speaker 2: some way to spend the seven bajillion dollars. Yeah they have, so.

2433
02:24:09,160 --> 02:24:11,160
Speaker 1: Either that or you know, when we get someone better

2434
02:24:11,240 --> 02:24:13,760
Speaker 1: in We could keep the name, but just create like

2435
02:24:13,840 --> 02:24:16,600
Speaker 1: a brand partnership with the city of Nice. And I'm

2436
02:24:16,680 --> 02:24:18,760
Speaker 1: going to say that like it's like and turn them

2437
02:24:18,760 --> 02:24:22,120
Speaker 1: into advertising instead of pulling people away from their families.

2438
02:24:22,200 --> 02:24:24,320
Speaker 1: They can tell people about all of the new deals

2439
02:24:24,360 --> 02:24:26,440
Speaker 1: on airfare to France that are available right now.

2440
02:24:27,240 --> 02:24:28,720
Speaker 6: We don't even need to abolish Nice.

2441
02:24:28,760 --> 02:24:29,560
Speaker 2: We can just perform it.

2442
02:24:29,680 --> 02:24:31,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, we could just we could just perform it to

2443
02:24:31,520 --> 02:24:34,840
Speaker 1: a totism agency for one city in France.

2444
02:24:35,080 --> 02:24:36,880
Speaker 2: There is a type of biscuit in Britain which I

2445
02:24:36,879 --> 02:24:39,560
Speaker 2: suspect maybe comes from Nice Finish Germany referred to as

2446
02:24:39,560 --> 02:24:43,240
Speaker 2: a Nice biscuit because it has Nice stamped on the biscuit. Sure,

2447
02:24:43,320 --> 02:24:46,039
Speaker 2: so perhaps we could instead of guns, give them biscuits

2448
02:24:46,240 --> 02:24:47,480
Speaker 2: and they can hand those out.

2449
02:24:48,320 --> 02:24:50,760
Speaker 1: Think of how much better it'll be Some guy shows

2450
02:24:50,840 --> 02:24:53,720
Speaker 1: up for his like, you know, immigration court meeting, and

2451
02:24:53,800 --> 02:24:56,320
Speaker 1: he finishes that. On his way out, there's a delegation

2452
02:24:56,440 --> 02:24:58,840
Speaker 1: of guys from from Nice just being like, you want

2453
02:24:58,840 --> 02:25:01,800
Speaker 1: to go on vacation from one of France's top five

2454
02:25:01,920 --> 02:25:02,640
Speaker 1: or six cities.

2455
02:25:03,840 --> 02:25:07,200
Speaker 2: I assume the niceise cops. Yeah, they give you like

2456
02:25:07,280 --> 02:25:09,600
Speaker 2: one of their special salents they make there with. Yeah,

2457
02:25:09,920 --> 02:25:12,680
Speaker 2: so many. Yeah, it could be great. Hit us up,

2458
02:25:12,720 --> 02:25:14,120
Speaker 2: it could be this could work. Yeah, if you're the

2459
02:25:14,160 --> 02:25:18,440
Speaker 2: mayor of Nice, we can we can introduce you. Yeah. Finally,

2460
02:25:18,560 --> 02:25:21,400
Speaker 2: the United States has indicted the governor of Sino Law

2461
02:25:21,640 --> 02:25:26,600
Speaker 2: on drug grafficking charges, which is a pretty significant thing.

2462
02:25:27,320 --> 02:25:28,360
Speaker 6: Well that's not as funny.

2463
02:25:28,800 --> 02:25:30,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, no, no, Well I'm not going to be

2464
02:25:30,680 --> 02:25:32,959
Speaker 2: brand rebranding it as clearly are they.

2465
02:25:33,800 --> 02:25:37,360
Speaker 6: Speaking of not being funny? Let's actually talk about the

2466
02:25:38,200 --> 02:25:39,680
Speaker 6: bad news this week.

2467
02:25:40,200 --> 02:25:40,440
Speaker 2: Yeah.

2468
02:25:40,760 --> 02:25:44,240
Speaker 6: On Wednesday, the Supreme Court struck down a Louisiana voting

2469
02:25:44,360 --> 02:25:50,520
Speaker 6: map as a quote unconstitutional racial gerrymander unquote that effectively

2470
02:25:50,600 --> 02:25:54,840
Speaker 6: created a black voting district. The ruling was split six

2471
02:25:55,040 --> 02:25:59,240
Speaker 6: three on ideological lines. Alito, who wrote the majority opinion,

2472
02:26:00,000 --> 02:26:04,080
Speaker 6: saying that the district violated the equal Protection Clause of

2473
02:26:04,160 --> 02:26:09,280
Speaker 6: the Constitution. The new ruling substantially undermines the nineteen sixty

2474
02:26:09,320 --> 02:26:14,040
Speaker 6: five Voting Rights Act, reinterpreting Section two provisions against racial

2475
02:26:14,080 --> 02:26:20,280
Speaker 6: discrimination to require evidence of intentional racial discrimination, not just

2476
02:26:20,680 --> 02:26:25,959
Speaker 6: discrimination as the effect, so in the future, proving discriminatory

2477
02:26:26,080 --> 02:26:29,320
Speaker 6: motives may be needed in order to win legal challenges

2478
02:26:29,400 --> 02:26:33,680
Speaker 6: against gerrymandering. By citing the Voting Rights Act. This ruling

2479
02:26:33,720 --> 02:26:39,080
Speaker 6: specifically depowers black voters while enabling Republican jerrymandering to continue.

2480
02:26:39,840 --> 02:26:41,680
Speaker 6: Republicans in the South will now be able to redraw

2481
02:26:41,800 --> 02:26:45,240
Speaker 6: house district maps that lean Democrat that have a high

2482
02:26:45,360 --> 02:26:49,400
Speaker 6: number of Black voters, and pr strates. At least fifteen

2483
02:26:49,680 --> 02:26:53,640
Speaker 6: house districts are now at risk of elimination. In the dissent,

2484
02:26:54,120 --> 02:26:58,200
Speaker 6: Justice Alanna Kagan wrote that court's decision will set back

2485
02:26:58,280 --> 02:27:01,960
Speaker 6: the foundational right to Congress rented of racial equality in

2486
02:27:02,160 --> 02:27:07,400
Speaker 6: electoral opportunity unquote. Yeah, this is that this is possibly

2487
02:27:07,480 --> 02:27:11,520
Speaker 6: the worst escalation of the continued undermining of the Voting

2488
02:27:11,640 --> 02:27:12,080
Speaker 6: Rights Act.

2489
02:27:12,560 --> 02:27:16,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, right, yeah, I mean, this is inarguably the

2490
02:27:16,640 --> 02:27:18,640
Speaker 1: most important thing going on this week, even with the

2491
02:27:18,680 --> 02:27:20,720
Speaker 1: shooting that we haven't talked about, like the gutting of

2492
02:27:20,800 --> 02:27:24,240
Speaker 1: laymore people died for like the Voting Rights Act has

2493
02:27:24,280 --> 02:27:26,960
Speaker 1: a body count attached to it. Yeah, the court has

2494
02:27:27,080 --> 02:27:29,760
Speaker 1: to be packed the next Like, if there's ever another

2495
02:27:30,160 --> 02:27:34,400
Speaker 1: democratic or left of center administration and they don't pack

2496
02:27:34,480 --> 02:27:38,360
Speaker 1: the court, there's simply no chance of improving or fixing

2497
02:27:38,400 --> 02:27:39,840
Speaker 1: any of the problems this country has.

2498
02:27:39,959 --> 02:27:42,840
Speaker 2: Like it's a necessary prerequisite. It's no coming back from this.

2499
02:27:43,160 --> 02:27:45,120
Speaker 6: DC and Porto ricurls need to become states to have

2500
02:27:45,200 --> 02:27:50,720
Speaker 6: their own congressional representation. Any future opposition administration has to

2501
02:27:50,840 --> 02:27:52,400
Speaker 6: go completely glove sauce like.

2502
02:27:52,959 --> 02:27:55,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we have to imprison a bunch of the

2503
02:27:55,120 --> 02:27:57,360
Speaker 1: people currently running things. Yeah, Like, there's a lot of

2504
02:27:57,360 --> 02:27:59,400
Speaker 1: stuff that has to happen, but one of those is

2505
02:27:59,440 --> 02:28:01,680
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court needs to get packed, because by god,

2506
02:28:01,800 --> 02:28:04,040
Speaker 1: these people are not going to approve of anything that

2507
02:28:04,160 --> 02:28:04,920
Speaker 1: isn't insane.

2508
02:28:05,440 --> 02:28:08,840
Speaker 6: It's unclear if this rulely will have immediate impacts on

2509
02:28:09,000 --> 02:28:12,280
Speaker 6: the upcoming midterms, but by twenty twenty eight they will

2510
02:28:12,440 --> 02:28:13,720
Speaker 6: certainly have impacts.

2511
02:28:13,920 --> 02:28:18,040
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, they had filed for an emergency decision on

2512
02:28:18,680 --> 02:28:23,920
Speaker 2: redistruting or I guess not redistruting like predistricting. I don't know.

2513
02:28:23,920 --> 02:28:26,480
Speaker 2: What you would call that, but to get this in

2514
02:28:26,520 --> 02:28:27,600
Speaker 2: effect before the midterms.

2515
02:28:27,640 --> 02:28:30,640
Speaker 6: Basically, Yeah, the Supreme Court also sent us to a

2516
02:28:30,680 --> 02:28:33,800
Speaker 6: lower court to work out more details. It's going to

2517
02:28:33,840 --> 02:28:36,760
Speaker 6: obviously be ongoing little litigation about it, just as there

2518
02:28:36,800 --> 02:28:40,760
Speaker 6: will be about Florida's redistricting measure that they are trying

2519
02:28:40,800 --> 02:28:42,880
Speaker 6: to finalize before the midterms as well.

2520
02:28:43,040 --> 02:28:46,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, and indeed, Californias, I think there have been some arguments,

2521
02:28:47,200 --> 02:28:49,160
Speaker 2: may like, now that this decision has been made by

2522
02:28:49,160 --> 02:28:51,080
Speaker 2: the Supreme Court, right, like, other states will have to

2523
02:28:51,120 --> 02:28:52,640
Speaker 2: consider this in their redistricting.

2524
02:28:53,240 --> 02:28:56,760
Speaker 6: Should we take a break, we shall, and then we

2525
02:28:56,840 --> 02:29:11,039
Speaker 6: can talk about the dinner. Yeah, okay, we are back.

2526
02:29:12,680 --> 02:29:14,560
Speaker 6: Let's talk about the dinner. Let's talk about the shooting

2527
02:29:14,600 --> 02:29:16,080
Speaker 6: that happened at the dinner, the thing that everyone else

2528
02:29:16,120 --> 02:29:18,880
Speaker 6: has been talking about for the past five six days.

2529
02:29:19,840 --> 02:29:23,080
Speaker 6: So yeah, on April twenty fifth, during the White House

2530
02:29:23,160 --> 02:29:26,080
Speaker 6: Correspondence dinner, Everyone's favorite event.

2531
02:29:26,160 --> 02:29:27,200
Speaker 2: It's a shame we weren't there.

2532
02:29:27,720 --> 02:29:30,000
Speaker 6: It is unfortunate that we were not there to point

2533
02:29:30,040 --> 02:29:33,240
Speaker 6: our vertical video at our face as the news happens

2534
02:29:33,240 --> 02:29:33,840
Speaker 6: in front of us.

2535
02:29:34,240 --> 02:29:36,320
Speaker 2: Oh, I would have been filming just your face.

2536
02:29:36,400 --> 02:29:39,440
Speaker 1: Garrison and just like really tight in like to the

2537
02:29:39,480 --> 02:29:41,480
Speaker 1: point where it's it's difficult for you to get up

2538
02:29:41,520 --> 02:29:45,000
Speaker 1: and move. I keep wedging, no garrison, face the camera.

2539
02:29:45,080 --> 02:29:46,560
Speaker 1: Come on, people need to see this.

2540
02:29:47,480 --> 02:29:50,120
Speaker 2: I'd be assuming the war fight aposture.

2541
02:29:51,080 --> 02:29:54,000
Speaker 6: You're gonna get up like Haanksteth and the storm around. Yeah.

2542
02:29:55,320 --> 02:29:59,720
Speaker 1: I would also be shielding myself behind Stephen Miller's wife.

2543
02:30:00,480 --> 02:30:04,920
Speaker 6: Hed have been protecting the white I know either way.

2544
02:30:05,000 --> 02:30:06,800
Speaker 2: Ye, yeah, yeah, it's funny.

2545
02:30:06,840 --> 02:30:10,000
Speaker 6: Yeah, at least at least Miller wasn't wasn't getting cooked,

2546
02:30:10,760 --> 02:30:12,039
Speaker 6: unlike the FBI director.

2547
02:30:12,480 --> 02:30:18,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, that is funny that he abandoned his wife. Yeah yeah, girlfriend, girlfriend, girlfriend. Sorry,

2548
02:30:19,360 --> 02:30:22,240
Speaker 1: I guess we should just go. Let's recap the events

2549
02:30:22,320 --> 02:30:24,120
Speaker 1: for people who live under a rock.

2550
02:30:24,760 --> 02:30:30,240
Speaker 6: So shortly before eight thirty pm, the alleged shooter approached

2551
02:30:30,360 --> 02:30:34,920
Speaker 6: the Secret Service security screening checkpoint located on the terrace

2552
02:30:35,040 --> 02:30:38,560
Speaker 6: level of the hotel. This was the level above the

2553
02:30:38,680 --> 02:30:43,200
Speaker 6: ballroom level where the actual dinner was taking place. James,

2554
02:30:43,240 --> 02:30:45,680
Speaker 6: we should probably just read from the court document.

2555
02:30:46,320 --> 02:30:48,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I'm just yet, I'm going to read

2556
02:30:48,840 --> 02:30:52,800
Speaker 2: this straight from the government's DFJ statement in the court

2557
02:30:52,920 --> 02:30:55,800
Speaker 2: right before the dependent approach to checkpoint, he discarded a

2558
02:30:55,959 --> 02:30:59,200
Speaker 2: long black coat that concealed a twelve gage pump action shook.

2559
02:30:59,800 --> 02:31:02,760
Speaker 2: That defendant then sprinted through one of the magnetometers at

2560
02:31:02,800 --> 02:31:05,120
Speaker 2: the checkpoint and ran in the direction of the stairs

2561
02:31:05,280 --> 02:31:07,440
Speaker 2: leading to the ballroom, where the President and members of

2562
02:31:07,480 --> 02:31:10,800
Speaker 2: his family and cabinet were located. As the defendant did so,

2563
02:31:11,000 --> 02:31:13,360
Speaker 2: he held a shotgun in both hands in a raised

2564
02:31:13,400 --> 02:31:16,840
Speaker 2: position parallel to the ground. A United States Secret Service

2565
02:31:16,879 --> 02:31:20,120
Speaker 2: officer observed the defendant fire the shotgun in the direction

2566
02:31:20,280 --> 02:31:23,680
Speaker 2: of the stairs leading down to the ballroom. The Secret

2567
02:31:23,760 --> 02:31:26,560
Speaker 2: Service officer and others at the checkpoint heard the gun shot.

2568
02:31:26,920 --> 02:31:29,680
Speaker 2: The Secret Service officer drew his service weapon and fired

2569
02:31:29,760 --> 02:31:33,000
Speaker 2: five times the defendant. The defendant fell to the ground

2570
02:31:33,040 --> 02:31:36,320
Speaker 2: and was restrained by law enforcement and was placed under arrests.

2571
02:31:36,959 --> 02:31:39,640
Speaker 2: The defendant suffered a minor injury to his knee, but

2572
02:31:40,120 --> 02:31:44,119
Speaker 2: was not shot. We can in a second talk about

2573
02:31:44,280 --> 02:31:47,160
Speaker 2: whether he shot the Secret Service officer.

2574
02:31:47,560 --> 02:31:51,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, because there's an interesting Washington Post review that's out

2575
02:31:51,200 --> 02:31:51,720
Speaker 1: too now.

2576
02:31:52,920 --> 02:31:56,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, and a couple of court documents just filed today. Yeah,

2577
02:31:56,440 --> 02:31:59,000
Speaker 2: let's talk a little bit about the just circumstances this right,

2578
02:31:59,360 --> 02:32:03,120
Speaker 2: this person had purchased. According to court documents, he purchased

2579
02:32:03,120 --> 02:32:05,880
Speaker 2: two weapons from separate firearm stealers in California, buying the

2580
02:32:05,920 --> 02:32:09,320
Speaker 2: shotgun on or about August seventeenth, twenty twenty five, and

2581
02:32:09,480 --> 02:32:13,199
Speaker 2: the pistol on or about October sixth, twenty twenty three.

2582
02:32:13,440 --> 02:32:15,600
Speaker 6: Yeah, the pistol for a while. The shotgun was a

2583
02:32:15,760 --> 02:32:17,040
Speaker 6: more of a recent purchase.

2584
02:32:17,879 --> 02:32:23,160
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. The pistol is a fascinating choice, amazing choice.

2585
02:32:23,280 --> 02:32:27,720
Speaker 2: Thirty eight super Yeah, I have never seen a thirty

2586
02:32:27,800 --> 02:32:31,880
Speaker 2: eight super hanggun outside of the They're they're common in

2587
02:32:31,959 --> 02:32:35,879
Speaker 2: Mexico because they have a certain cachet and cultural value.

2588
02:32:36,840 --> 02:32:39,840
Speaker 2: Every thirty eight superhandgun than I have personally held was

2589
02:32:39,920 --> 02:32:41,760
Speaker 2: embossed in gold and silver. Yeah.

2590
02:32:41,840 --> 02:32:45,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, and usually a Mexican flag, but not exclusively.

2591
02:32:45,400 --> 02:32:48,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, or like some sort of heraldry that denotes but

2592
02:32:48,840 --> 02:32:53,039
Speaker 2: it's associated sometimes with organized crime, Like I'm not when

2593
02:32:53,080 --> 02:32:56,240
Speaker 2: I say associated with organized crime. A few weeks ago, right,

2594
02:32:56,280 --> 02:32:59,440
Speaker 2: I talked about a material support for terrorism case which

2595
02:32:59,520 --> 02:33:02,480
Speaker 2: centered on on a firearms dealer who was selling grips

2596
02:33:02,560 --> 02:33:06,800
Speaker 2: for thirty thirty eight super pistols with images that are

2597
02:33:06,840 --> 02:33:10,760
Speaker 2: associated with cartels, Like when you buy a thirty eight super.

2598
02:33:11,080 --> 02:33:13,320
Speaker 2: Someone at the ATF gets an email. I bet like

2599
02:33:13,720 --> 02:33:16,880
Speaker 2: these things that are very rare and they have a

2600
02:33:16,959 --> 02:33:18,600
Speaker 2: certain consumer base.

2601
02:33:19,320 --> 02:33:22,240
Speaker 1: Now, obviously there are normal thirty eight super pistols that exist.

2602
02:33:22,320 --> 02:33:25,000
Speaker 1: They're just like today, most people buy because it's a

2603
02:33:25,040 --> 02:33:27,880
Speaker 1: weird moon round too. There's not a it's not a

2604
02:33:28,000 --> 02:33:30,120
Speaker 1: normal like. It's not there's nothing wrong with it, but

2605
02:33:30,160 --> 02:33:33,440
Speaker 1: it's not a round that's commonly carried. It's expensive. It's

2606
02:33:33,520 --> 02:33:37,000
Speaker 1: primarily something that has like cachet for drug dealers. But

2607
02:33:37,120 --> 02:33:42,160
Speaker 1: I guess also my interpretation and I guess we're I know,

2608
02:33:42,200 --> 02:33:44,080
Speaker 1: maybe this is getting too much into my SA side

2609
02:33:44,080 --> 02:33:45,840
Speaker 1: of things, But I do have a theory as to

2610
02:33:45,920 --> 02:33:48,040
Speaker 1: why he would have picked this gun and the shotgun

2611
02:33:48,120 --> 02:33:48,600
Speaker 1: that he picked.

2612
02:33:48,680 --> 02:33:50,520
Speaker 2: But we can talk about that later if you want.

2613
02:33:50,640 --> 02:33:51,480
Speaker 6: We'll get that in the sac.

2614
02:33:51,560 --> 02:33:56,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, he also had a I believe, two knives and

2615
02:33:56,160 --> 02:34:00,440
Speaker 2: four daggers. Yeah, six bladed weapons. Really want to see

2616
02:34:00,480 --> 02:34:03,360
Speaker 2: pictures of those bladed weapons? They are in the court documents, buddy,

2617
02:34:03,680 --> 02:34:05,920
Speaker 2: let me have you. Let me let me just find

2618
02:34:05,959 --> 02:34:06,480
Speaker 2: those for you.

2619
02:34:06,840 --> 02:34:08,959
Speaker 6: We have an enhanced image of some of them too.

2620
02:34:09,959 --> 02:34:13,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we should talk about this. The government submitted

2621
02:34:13,240 --> 02:34:17,760
Speaker 2: a quote unquote enhanced image. In the court case, mister

2622
02:34:17,879 --> 02:34:21,200
Speaker 2: Allen took a picture of himself at about eighth three pm,

2623
02:34:21,480 --> 02:34:25,360
Speaker 2: so about half an hour before he rushed past the magnetometer. There.

2624
02:34:25,920 --> 02:34:28,440
Speaker 2: In the picture we can see he is wearing black

2625
02:34:28,879 --> 02:34:33,000
Speaker 2: suit pants. He is wearing a black shirt. He has

2626
02:34:33,040 --> 02:34:36,360
Speaker 2: a red tie which inexplicably is tucked into his pants.

2627
02:34:37,040 --> 02:34:41,120
Speaker 2: He has a shoulder holster and a large k by

2628
02:34:41,200 --> 02:34:45,480
Speaker 2: knife in a in a downwards draw configuration. He is

2629
02:34:45,760 --> 02:34:49,400
Speaker 2: carrying a pair of pliers and a pair of wirecutters

2630
02:34:49,560 --> 02:34:53,160
Speaker 2: in a holster on his left side. On his right side,

2631
02:34:53,280 --> 02:34:56,480
Speaker 2: he is carrying a small leather bag which allegedly contained

2632
02:34:56,560 --> 02:35:01,040
Speaker 2: more shotgun rounds, and the nineteen leve is in a

2633
02:35:01,520 --> 02:35:05,960
Speaker 2: crusteral showd to holster right. None of this screams highly trained.

2634
02:35:06,320 --> 02:35:09,480
Speaker 6: The quote unquote enhanced image was basically a zoomed in

2635
02:35:09,680 --> 02:35:13,240
Speaker 6: the oh yeah copy of this photo that, if I

2636
02:35:13,440 --> 02:35:16,520
Speaker 6: were to guess, the word enhanced means that they use

2637
02:35:16,560 --> 02:35:20,400
Speaker 6: some kind of sharpening or AI image sharpening tool.

2638
02:35:20,680 --> 02:35:24,520
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, none of which are real In terms of like,

2639
02:35:24,600 --> 02:35:27,320
Speaker 1: none of which are actually enhancing or sharpening.

2640
02:35:27,560 --> 02:35:30,840
Speaker 6: The details that you are seeing should not be allowed

2641
02:35:30,920 --> 02:35:33,920
Speaker 6: in to be like viewed in court, right, yeah, yeah, yeah.

2642
02:35:33,800 --> 02:35:37,440
Speaker 1: The AI is guessing there's not extra data in the photo.

2643
02:35:38,000 --> 02:35:41,279
Speaker 1: The AI is uncovering, Like, the AI is basically attempting

2644
02:35:41,320 --> 02:35:43,960
Speaker 1: to clean up an image. Which is fine if you

2645
02:35:44,080 --> 02:35:46,200
Speaker 1: have like a blurry photo of you and like your

2646
02:35:46,280 --> 02:35:48,440
Speaker 1: wife when you got in your first apartment together that

2647
02:35:48,520 --> 02:35:49,280
Speaker 1: you want cleaned up.

2648
02:35:49,360 --> 02:35:52,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, but that's not it's not should not be, should

2649
02:35:52,320 --> 02:35:55,160
Speaker 2: not be. Yeah, I'm sure we'll see the defense challenge

2650
02:35:55,400 --> 02:35:57,200
Speaker 2: and I'll be interested to note, like what AI they

2651
02:35:57,360 --> 02:36:00,880
Speaker 2: used and did they did they also very iterations of

2652
02:36:00,959 --> 02:36:03,600
Speaker 2: the enhancement or did they you know, like this will

2653
02:36:03,640 --> 02:36:07,920
Speaker 2: be interesting. I don't think it materially inserty anything. We

2654
02:36:08,000 --> 02:36:10,400
Speaker 2: can see the same Samsung phone. I can see the

2655
02:36:10,440 --> 02:36:12,200
Speaker 2: handle of the knife in both imagies. I can see

2656
02:36:12,200 --> 02:36:13,320
Speaker 2: the handle of their hangguns.

2657
02:36:13,400 --> 02:36:15,880
Speaker 6: This is more of like a principal thing. Yeah, then, like,

2658
02:36:16,280 --> 02:36:20,400
Speaker 6: did this specifically affect the photo in this case in

2659
02:36:20,440 --> 02:36:23,280
Speaker 6: any way that would lead to the evidence being more useful?

2660
02:36:23,440 --> 02:36:26,279
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly. Yeah, yeah, this is a bad slippery slope.

2661
02:36:27,080 --> 02:36:29,280
Speaker 2: So talking of his phone, he kept it with him

2662
02:36:29,280 --> 02:36:32,760
Speaker 2: as he traveled across the country on a train, taking

2663
02:36:32,840 --> 02:36:35,560
Speaker 2: notes about the landscape as he went Amtrak. Yeah, yeah,

2664
02:36:35,600 --> 02:36:38,120
Speaker 2: he took Amtrak and like he was enchanted by like

2665
02:36:38,200 --> 02:36:42,800
Speaker 2: the deserts and the he liked Chicago. He thought the

2666
02:36:42,840 --> 02:36:44,480
Speaker 2: woods on the East coast were greatly.

2667
02:36:44,600 --> 02:36:46,360
Speaker 6: He kept like a like a journal where he wrote

2668
02:36:46,360 --> 02:36:47,119
Speaker 6: about the trap.

2669
02:36:47,040 --> 02:36:49,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, in the notesap of his phone. Yeah, and then

2670
02:36:49,680 --> 02:36:54,040
Speaker 2: the day of his attempted shooting, he used open sources

2671
02:36:54,080 --> 02:36:57,320
Speaker 2: to track the present movements. Should we move on to

2672
02:36:57,440 --> 02:36:58,400
Speaker 2: did he fire his gun?

2673
02:36:58,600 --> 02:36:58,800
Speaker 7: Yeah?

2674
02:36:58,840 --> 02:37:00,320
Speaker 6: That's a big because because that is that's a big

2675
02:37:00,360 --> 02:37:02,800
Speaker 6: question right now. Yeah, that's one half the question. The

2676
02:37:02,879 --> 02:37:05,760
Speaker 6: other half is did he shoot a Secret Service agent?

2677
02:37:05,879 --> 02:37:06,119
Speaker 4: Which?

2678
02:37:06,440 --> 02:37:06,600
Speaker 5: Right?

2679
02:37:07,080 --> 02:37:08,320
Speaker 2: Did he shoot anybody?

2680
02:37:08,959 --> 02:37:11,720
Speaker 6: H The DOJ is saying he fired a gun.

2681
02:37:12,120 --> 02:37:17,560
Speaker 2: The DOJ claims that, but is not really affirmatively saying that.

2682
02:37:17,680 --> 02:37:18,560
Speaker 6: He shot an agent.

2683
02:37:19,080 --> 02:37:19,320
Speaker 2: Yeah.

2684
02:37:19,560 --> 02:37:22,640
Speaker 1: No, they they've said a couple of different things. They've

2685
02:37:22,640 --> 02:37:25,920
Speaker 1: said that an agent was struck by gunfire. They've said

2686
02:37:26,040 --> 02:37:29,880
Speaker 1: that it was not friendly fire. But they have not

2687
02:37:30,200 --> 02:37:34,000
Speaker 1: said that he was struck by the assailant shotgun, by

2688
02:37:34,040 --> 02:37:38,480
Speaker 1: the gunman's actual weapon. And that's partly because there's not

2689
02:37:38,760 --> 02:37:42,320
Speaker 1: hard evidence yet that the gunmen actually fired his shotgun.

2690
02:37:42,600 --> 02:37:44,800
Speaker 2: Let me read you what they fired in court today. Yeah,

2691
02:37:45,320 --> 02:37:48,199
Speaker 2: the evidence gathered analyzed to date establishes your client fired

2692
02:37:48,240 --> 02:37:51,039
Speaker 2: his Mossburg twelve gage pumpatch and shotgun at least one

2693
02:37:51,120 --> 02:37:54,240
Speaker 2: time as he rampast some magnetometis on the terrace level

2694
02:37:54,280 --> 02:37:57,160
Speaker 2: of the Washington Hilton on April twenty fifth, twenty twenty six,

2695
02:37:57,800 --> 02:38:00,680
Speaker 2: when the weapon was recovered, had once been ard case

2696
02:38:00,760 --> 02:38:03,080
Speaker 2: in the chamber, which has been identified as having been

2697
02:38:03,160 --> 02:38:06,480
Speaker 2: fired in the mos Bog shotgun. The government's preliminary ballistics

2698
02:38:06,600 --> 02:38:08,840
Speaker 2: video analysis show that your client fired his shotgun in

2699
02:38:08,920 --> 02:38:13,960
Speaker 2: the direction of Secret Service Officer VG, which Officer VEG observed. Additionally,

2700
02:38:13,959 --> 02:38:16,400
Speaker 2: at least one fragment was recovered from the crime scene

2701
02:38:16,760 --> 02:38:20,040
Speaker 2: that was physically consistent with a single buckshot pellet. That

2702
02:38:20,200 --> 02:38:22,720
Speaker 2: fragment was recovered from a location at the scene consistent

2703
02:38:22,760 --> 02:38:26,000
Speaker 2: with your client firing his shotgun in the direction of

2704
02:38:26,120 --> 02:38:29,480
Speaker 2: Oppicer VEG. The government is aware of no physical evidence,

2705
02:38:29,520 --> 02:38:32,560
Speaker 2: digital video evidence, or witness statements that are inconsistent with

2706
02:38:32,640 --> 02:38:34,680
Speaker 2: the theory that your client fired his shotgun in the

2707
02:38:34,800 --> 02:38:38,560
Speaker 2: direction of Officer VG or the officer of VEG was

2708
02:38:38,600 --> 02:38:42,240
Speaker 2: indeed shot once in the chest while wearing a ballistic vest,

2709
02:38:43,080 --> 02:38:45,760
Speaker 2: they go on them further to say, the government also

2710
02:38:45,840 --> 02:38:48,840
Speaker 2: recovered five spent nine millimeters LUGA cartridge cases, each of

2711
02:38:49,480 --> 02:38:52,160
Speaker 2: which was determined to have been fired from Officer Veg's

2712
02:38:52,160 --> 02:38:55,920
Speaker 2: service weapon. The government also identified five separate bullet holes

2713
02:38:56,000 --> 02:38:59,320
Speaker 2: in the walls opposite from Officer VG, consistent with the

2714
02:38:59,400 --> 02:39:03,880
Speaker 2: direction of Sevigi fired his service weapon. That's like the

2715
02:39:04,200 --> 02:39:07,920
Speaker 2: most Yeah, that's the most detail that we've seen from

2716
02:39:08,000 --> 02:39:09,120
Speaker 2: them of their case.

2717
02:39:09,320 --> 02:39:09,440
Speaker 1: Right.

2718
02:39:10,160 --> 02:39:13,320
Speaker 2: His defense had previously suggested that the because of some

2719
02:39:13,440 --> 02:39:15,680
Speaker 2: of the public statements Attorney General Blanche have made, the

2720
02:39:15,720 --> 02:39:20,400
Speaker 2: government may have exculpatory evidence either that he didn't fire

2721
02:39:20,440 --> 02:39:23,320
Speaker 2: his gun or that he didn't shoot the Secret Service

2722
02:39:23,360 --> 02:39:24,279
Speaker 2: agent in question.

2723
02:39:24,560 --> 02:39:26,480
Speaker 6: Which administration officials have gone on in the news to

2724
02:39:26,560 --> 02:39:29,480
Speaker 6: say that the Secret Service agent did not shoot himself,

2725
02:39:30,320 --> 02:39:34,840
Speaker 6: which yes, is not saying that another Secret Service agent

2726
02:39:34,920 --> 02:39:36,199
Speaker 6: did not shoot him though.

2727
02:39:36,520 --> 02:39:41,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And it doesn't seem like he shot into

2728
02:39:42,240 --> 02:39:44,360
Speaker 2: a plaster board wall, it seems right, so he didn't

2729
02:39:44,440 --> 02:39:45,879
Speaker 2: maybe get splashed back, which.

2730
02:39:45,720 --> 02:39:48,280
Speaker 1: Is you know, the only holes we've seen look like

2731
02:39:48,360 --> 02:39:51,080
Speaker 1: they came from pistols, and that's something the Washington Posts

2732
02:39:51,120 --> 02:39:54,840
Speaker 1: actually did like look into, because there's at least one.

2733
02:39:54,959 --> 02:39:57,440
Speaker 1: There's a couple I think of livestream videos that showed

2734
02:39:57,800 --> 02:40:01,280
Speaker 1: like holes from a bullet in the wall. But the

2735
02:40:01,320 --> 02:40:04,160
Speaker 1: Post talked to Rick Vasquez, the firearms consultant and former

2736
02:40:04,240 --> 02:40:08,600
Speaker 1: chief of the firearms Technology branch at the ATF or

2737
02:40:08,680 --> 02:40:10,560
Speaker 1: what was then the ATF, who said that the holes

2738
02:40:10,600 --> 02:40:14,040
Speaker 1: were consistent with handgun rounds. Now, that's not like a

2739
02:40:14,320 --> 02:40:16,440
Speaker 1: firearms technology. There's a lot of WU there, but it's

2740
02:40:16,440 --> 02:40:19,200
Speaker 1: also pretty easy to look. I mean, sometimes it could

2741
02:40:19,200 --> 02:40:21,640
Speaker 1: be kind of messy because like the balls and like

2742
02:40:21,720 --> 02:40:25,120
Speaker 1: a double lot buck shotshell are kind of similar in

2743
02:40:25,240 --> 02:40:26,000
Speaker 1: size to nine.

2744
02:40:25,879 --> 02:40:28,960
Speaker 2: Millimeter right somewhere in the thirty caliber range, right, but

2745
02:40:29,120 --> 02:40:29,680
Speaker 2: they don't tend.

2746
02:40:29,600 --> 02:40:31,560
Speaker 1: To hit with the same kinds of patterns, right, Like,

2747
02:40:32,280 --> 02:40:34,640
Speaker 1: there does tend to be a significant difference, especially that

2748
02:40:35,000 --> 02:40:38,680
Speaker 1: kind of range. The night of the shooting or within

2749
02:40:38,720 --> 02:40:41,840
Speaker 1: a few hours of a Trump posted security camera footage

2750
02:40:42,400 --> 02:40:45,199
Speaker 1: and the Post got a hold of a higher resolution

2751
02:40:45,760 --> 02:40:47,960
Speaker 1: copy of that footage and they went through like a

2752
02:40:48,040 --> 02:40:51,080
Speaker 1: frame by frame analysis of it because, as you noted, James,

2753
02:40:51,120 --> 02:40:54,440
Speaker 1: they claimed that cold has charged his shotgun while he

2754
02:40:54,640 --> 02:40:57,800
Speaker 1: was passing through the magnometers. The magnetometers, right, they didn't

2755
02:40:57,800 --> 02:40:59,520
Speaker 1: say it happened to elsewhere. They said it like as

2756
02:40:59,560 --> 02:41:01,800
Speaker 1: he was going to that checkpoint that you can watch

2757
02:41:01,879 --> 02:41:04,640
Speaker 1: him sprint through like he's fucking rudo running his way

2758
02:41:04,760 --> 02:41:09,000
Speaker 1: into the correspondence dinner. And in their frame by frame analysis,

2759
02:41:09,080 --> 02:41:11,959
Speaker 1: the Post only found evidence of four muzzle flashes, all

2760
02:41:12,040 --> 02:41:15,720
Speaker 1: of them from the agent who was allegedly struck by

2761
02:41:15,800 --> 02:41:16,840
Speaker 1: something's weapon.

2762
02:41:17,000 --> 02:41:18,320
Speaker 2: Right, So, first off, I.

2763
02:41:18,320 --> 02:41:20,400
Speaker 1: Mean, and you can hear in other footage, you can

2764
02:41:20,480 --> 02:41:24,080
Speaker 1: clearly hear more shots than that, Like I don't doubt

2765
02:41:24,160 --> 02:41:26,360
Speaker 1: that there were that he discharged five shots, but the

2766
02:41:26,440 --> 02:41:30,199
Speaker 1: video only shows four, and crucially, it does not show

2767
02:41:30,600 --> 02:41:34,040
Speaker 1: Cole's shotgun firing, and the video follows him until he

2768
02:41:34,120 --> 02:41:37,800
Speaker 1: goes off screen. So maybe whoever wrote that out should

2769
02:41:37,840 --> 02:41:40,640
Speaker 1: have written after passing through the magnanometers.

2770
02:41:40,680 --> 02:41:42,640
Speaker 2: But they seem to pretty clearly be saying.

2771
02:41:42,800 --> 02:41:45,280
Speaker 1: It was while he was in that little security area,

2772
02:41:45,760 --> 02:41:48,520
Speaker 1: and there's not evidence in the footage of him firing.

2773
02:41:48,600 --> 02:41:52,200
Speaker 1: We don't see anything that looks like firing, Like nobody

2774
02:41:52,320 --> 02:41:55,560
Speaker 1: reacts as if he has fired, Like there's just no

2775
02:41:55,959 --> 02:41:58,960
Speaker 1: evidence that he shot. And you know, they're hinging a

2776
02:41:59,000 --> 02:42:01,080
Speaker 1: lot on the fact that there's this spent cartridge in

2777
02:42:01,240 --> 02:42:04,520
Speaker 1: the chamber of his twelve gauge. But number one, that's

2778
02:42:04,560 --> 02:42:07,360
Speaker 1: actually not an uncommon way to store that kind of

2779
02:42:07,400 --> 02:42:09,800
Speaker 1: twelve gage shotgun with a spent shell in the in

2780
02:42:09,920 --> 02:42:12,760
Speaker 1: the breach, because it makes it easy if something were

2781
02:42:12,840 --> 02:42:14,960
Speaker 1: to happen. It makes it easier to basically get a

2782
02:42:15,000 --> 02:42:18,560
Speaker 1: fresh round in without needing to have a chambered round

2783
02:42:18,640 --> 02:42:21,080
Speaker 1: at all times, which a lot of people, most people don't.

2784
02:42:21,000 --> 02:42:24,440
Speaker 2: Like to do. Yeah, and that'll drop say five that like,

2785
02:42:24,520 --> 02:42:25,720
Speaker 2: it's a bad idea to do that.

2786
02:42:26,280 --> 02:42:28,760
Speaker 1: You don't want to do that with a shotgun, you know.

2787
02:42:28,959 --> 02:42:31,039
Speaker 1: Is it possible that he was storing it that way?

2788
02:42:31,480 --> 02:42:35,040
Speaker 1: Is it possible that he loaded one an empty round

2789
02:42:35,080 --> 02:42:37,800
Speaker 1: in there intentionally because he didn't actually he was hoping

2790
02:42:37,840 --> 02:42:39,720
Speaker 1: to do a suicide by cop and he didn't intend

2791
02:42:39,800 --> 02:42:43,680
Speaker 1: to actually shoot anybody. Is it possible he just fucked up.

2792
02:42:43,840 --> 02:42:47,080
Speaker 1: It's also perfectly possible he fired later. But it's really

2793
02:42:47,160 --> 02:42:49,880
Speaker 1: weird that they wrote it out that way if that's

2794
02:42:49,920 --> 02:42:53,840
Speaker 1: what they're alleging, because we see him when he's at

2795
02:42:53,959 --> 02:42:58,000
Speaker 1: the security checkpoint at the magnanometer and he doesn't fire

2796
02:42:58,160 --> 02:42:59,199
Speaker 1: in the footage.

2797
02:42:58,800 --> 02:42:59,120
Speaker 3: That we have.

2798
02:42:59,640 --> 02:43:03,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's been a lot of press statements that are

2799
02:43:03,840 --> 02:43:09,320
Speaker 2: sort of talking around exactly not making the explicit statement

2800
02:43:09,560 --> 02:43:12,240
Speaker 2: he fired his shotgun and he shot the officer in

2801
02:43:12,320 --> 02:43:16,280
Speaker 2: the chest, right, and certainly, like I'm not sure about

2802
02:43:16,320 --> 02:43:18,320
Speaker 2: the distance we're talking about, Like, and then then thus

2803
02:43:18,440 --> 02:43:20,840
Speaker 2: the spread that would happen with that, it.

2804
02:43:20,840 --> 02:43:23,800
Speaker 1: Would be minimal spread even with a sod off in

2805
02:43:23,879 --> 02:43:25,640
Speaker 1: a narrow corridor like that.

2806
02:43:26,680 --> 02:43:29,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean you go by an inch per yard, right, Like,

2807
02:43:29,400 --> 02:43:32,560
Speaker 2: that's the amount that yeah, really spreads. And then it's

2808
02:43:32,560 --> 02:43:34,520
Speaker 2: so if you hit this person once, assuming this person

2809
02:43:34,600 --> 02:43:38,080
Speaker 2: has a chest at twenty inches wide, Yeah, that doesn't

2810
02:43:38,120 --> 02:43:40,360
Speaker 2: line up, right, Yeah, it might be different with bugshot.

2811
02:43:40,360 --> 02:43:43,320
Speaker 6: I mean, obviously, if they had evidence that the secret

2812
02:43:43,360 --> 02:43:47,160
Speaker 6: cerviationent was shot by mister Allen, we'd have seen it.

2813
02:43:47,280 --> 02:43:49,240
Speaker 6: They would be running with that. The fact that they

2814
02:43:49,280 --> 02:43:52,560
Speaker 6: do not have evidence that the agent was shot by

2815
02:43:52,720 --> 02:43:55,879
Speaker 6: Allan is shown in the way that they're like talking

2816
02:43:55,959 --> 02:43:56,800
Speaker 6: about this, like.

2817
02:43:56,920 --> 02:44:01,080
Speaker 1: He was shot, yeah, and the guy discharged to separate

2818
02:44:01,160 --> 02:44:04,520
Speaker 1: statements exactly two separate statements. Yeah, they're still affirming that

2819
02:44:04,560 --> 02:44:07,640
Speaker 1: the agent did not shoot himself, which does not mean

2820
02:44:07,720 --> 02:44:11,760
Speaker 1: that he was not shot by another agent. Yeah, yeah,

2821
02:44:12,040 --> 02:44:15,760
Speaker 1: And there's a in that Washington Post article. They talked

2822
02:44:15,800 --> 02:44:19,280
Speaker 1: to Acting Attorney General Todd Blanche and asked him to explain,

2823
02:44:19,400 --> 02:44:21,360
Speaker 1: like why why are you guys never willing to say,

2824
02:44:21,440 --> 02:44:22,760
Speaker 1: like where the round.

2825
02:44:22,560 --> 02:44:24,560
Speaker 2: That hit the officer came from? Right?

2826
02:44:24,640 --> 02:44:26,400
Speaker 1: They asked him the question that we've been asking, and

2827
02:44:26,480 --> 02:44:28,600
Speaker 1: Blanche answered, we want to get that right.

2828
02:44:28,720 --> 02:44:30,920
Speaker 2: We're still looking at that. There you go, right, And

2829
02:44:31,000 --> 02:44:32,080
Speaker 2: that is a big change.

2830
02:44:32,120 --> 02:44:34,920
Speaker 1: As the Post notes of a day earlier, he told

2831
02:44:34,959 --> 02:44:38,039
Speaker 1: ABC that officials believe the gunman had shot the officer,

2832
02:44:38,160 --> 02:44:40,840
Speaker 1: so he has pulled back, which leads me to think

2833
02:44:41,400 --> 02:44:43,560
Speaker 1: maybe this guy didn't shoot at all, or maybe he

2834
02:44:43,720 --> 02:44:46,360
Speaker 1: fired later, maybe even totally by accident, maybe when he

2835
02:44:46,440 --> 02:44:49,680
Speaker 1: was falling down he like discharged. But so also you

2836
02:44:49,720 --> 02:44:52,280
Speaker 1: would think there'd be a photo somewhere of where he

2837
02:44:52,440 --> 02:44:57,280
Speaker 1: discharged the shotgun. It's surprisingly easy for bullets to get lost, right,

2838
02:44:57,400 --> 02:45:00,280
Speaker 1: and by that, I mean just get so destroyed and

2839
02:45:00,360 --> 02:45:02,320
Speaker 1: what not by impact that there's not really much of

2840
02:45:02,360 --> 02:45:06,000
Speaker 1: anything to find. That happens all the time. It's really rare,

2841
02:45:06,160 --> 02:45:08,840
Speaker 1: and I would argue impossible to discharge a twelve gage

2842
02:45:08,879 --> 02:45:12,720
Speaker 1: shotgun with any kind of shot shell in a fucking

2843
02:45:12,840 --> 02:45:15,879
Speaker 1: hotel like this and not have there be some sign

2844
02:45:16,000 --> 02:45:18,640
Speaker 1: of what you They make holes in things, that's what

2845
02:45:18,680 --> 02:45:22,000
Speaker 1: they're full. They make multiple holes. Yeah, unless it's a slug,

2846
02:45:22,080 --> 02:45:24,360
Speaker 1: but then they make a really big hole. And cold

2847
02:45:24,360 --> 02:45:26,840
Speaker 1: had specifically written that he was not intending to use

2848
02:45:26,920 --> 02:45:30,080
Speaker 1: slugs in his manifesto suicide know, whatever you want to

2849
02:45:30,120 --> 02:45:32,680
Speaker 1: call it. He specifically stated that he was using a

2850
02:45:32,800 --> 02:45:35,760
Speaker 1: twelve gage loaded with buckshot because he wanted to reduce

2851
02:45:35,840 --> 02:45:39,480
Speaker 1: the chances of overpenetration and of injuring or killing someone

2852
02:45:39,560 --> 02:45:40,600
Speaker 1: he did not intend to hit.

2853
02:45:40,760 --> 02:45:44,360
Speaker 6: Yeah, let's talk a little bit about his background, maybe

2854
02:45:44,360 --> 02:45:47,600
Speaker 6: a few other things from that manifesto. I know, Robert,

2855
02:45:47,640 --> 02:45:50,560
Speaker 6: you've done some digging into that. I did the.

2856
02:45:50,600 --> 02:45:53,920
Speaker 1: Normal thing that at least one of us does, generally

2857
02:45:54,000 --> 02:45:56,160
Speaker 1: all of us do in some form. Ever, after every

2858
02:45:56,240 --> 02:45:59,480
Speaker 1: kind of mass shooting or like publicly notable terror attack

2859
02:45:59,560 --> 02:46:00,119
Speaker 1: or whatever.

2860
02:46:00,080 --> 02:46:03,199
Speaker 2: And just found myself looking through a stranger social media.

2861
02:46:03,680 --> 02:46:06,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's been a bunch a couple of good articles

2862
02:46:06,160 --> 02:46:08,480
Speaker 1: out about him now most of like the first things

2863
02:46:08,520 --> 02:46:11,320
Speaker 1: that we knew about this guy, Like the very first

2864
02:46:11,400 --> 02:46:13,680
Speaker 1: fact is when his name came out, there were two

2865
02:46:13,800 --> 02:46:16,599
Speaker 1: different guys who kind of lived in the Torrents.

2866
02:46:16,160 --> 02:46:18,320
Speaker 2: Area who were immediately like there were.

2867
02:46:18,240 --> 02:46:23,000
Speaker 1: Responses under Cole Thomas Allen or Cole Allen, and one

2868
02:46:23,080 --> 02:46:25,520
Speaker 1: of them was like some fucking white dude who worked

2869
02:46:25,520 --> 02:46:27,200
Speaker 1: at it was a consulting firm or something.

2870
02:46:27,200 --> 02:46:27,480
Speaker 6: I don't know.

2871
02:46:27,520 --> 02:46:29,600
Speaker 1: It wasn't very but he just looked like he might

2872
02:46:29,640 --> 02:46:32,160
Speaker 1: have been thirty. And the other was Cole Thomas Allen

2873
02:46:32,200 --> 02:46:34,280
Speaker 1: and it was him winning a Teacher of the Year

2874
02:46:34,440 --> 02:46:37,560
Speaker 1: award at the He worked at a company that was

2875
02:46:37,560 --> 02:46:40,000
Speaker 1: basically doing like top college test prep tutoring.

2876
02:46:40,280 --> 02:46:41,920
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, so he was a teacher.

2877
02:46:42,120 --> 02:46:44,280
Speaker 1: Some people that are really angry at the description of

2878
02:46:44,360 --> 02:46:45,959
Speaker 1: him as a teacher because they're being like, he's trying

2879
02:46:46,000 --> 02:46:47,880
Speaker 1: to like bad mouth public school teachers. He's not a

2880
02:46:47,920 --> 02:46:50,360
Speaker 1: public school teacher, but there are other kinds of teachers.

2881
02:46:50,680 --> 02:46:54,000
Speaker 1: He was a teacher of the months at the tutoring

2882
02:46:54,040 --> 02:46:57,240
Speaker 1: academy that he worked at. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I had

2883
02:46:57,320 --> 02:46:59,240
Speaker 1: found by the time I got there, which is like

2884
02:46:59,320 --> 02:47:03,200
Speaker 1: twenty minutes after the name started spreading the Facebook page

2885
02:47:03,320 --> 02:47:05,360
Speaker 1: of the school that he worked or of the tutoring

2886
02:47:05,360 --> 02:47:07,160
Speaker 1: academy whatever that he worked at, which I'm not going

2887
02:47:07,240 --> 02:47:10,160
Speaker 1: to name, but it was hundreds of posts already being

2888
02:47:10,280 --> 02:47:12,879
Speaker 1: like good to see this is who's teaching your kids,

2889
02:47:13,040 --> 02:47:15,720
Speaker 1: you know, like you hired a terrorist all this kind

2890
02:47:15,760 --> 02:47:19,720
Speaker 1: of like yeah, yeah, it's it's it's bleak. It's the

2891
02:47:19,800 --> 02:47:23,000
Speaker 1: normal thing that happens, you know, with anything related to

2892
02:47:23,120 --> 02:47:26,960
Speaker 1: this in this case. Right after that, Trump posted a

2893
02:47:27,040 --> 02:47:31,200
Speaker 1: picture of the detained and stripped, mostly naked gunman that

2894
02:47:31,400 --> 02:47:34,120
Speaker 1: was obviously the Cole Allen who had won the Teacher

2895
02:47:34,160 --> 02:47:36,200
Speaker 1: of the Month, like immediately visible, like you could do.

2896
02:47:36,320 --> 02:47:39,000
Speaker 1: It was a positive idea was very quick from that

2897
02:47:39,120 --> 02:47:41,720
Speaker 1: point on. So at that point a couple other things

2898
02:47:41,920 --> 02:47:44,959
Speaker 1: started coming out because you know, I had looked through

2899
02:47:45,600 --> 02:47:47,879
Speaker 1: from that Facebook page, I had found a couple other

2900
02:47:48,480 --> 02:47:51,600
Speaker 1: posts about Cole Thomas Allen or different places where he

2901
02:47:51,680 --> 02:47:54,040
Speaker 1: had accounts, which made a couple other details of his

2902
02:47:54,120 --> 02:47:58,280
Speaker 1: background obvious. He was a mechanical engineering student in Caltech

2903
02:47:58,560 --> 02:48:02,280
Speaker 1: kind of during the first Trump administration. Yep, you know

2904
02:48:02,560 --> 02:48:05,920
Speaker 1: that was honestly, like most of what was like immediately

2905
02:48:06,000 --> 02:48:08,680
Speaker 1: obvious is that like he'd been an engineering student at Caltech,

2906
02:48:09,240 --> 02:48:11,480
Speaker 1: he'd worked as a teacher, and he'd been a part

2907
02:48:11,520 --> 02:48:13,240
Speaker 1: of In his LinkedIn, you can see that he'd been

2908
02:48:13,280 --> 02:48:16,560
Speaker 1: a part of Caltech's Christian Fellowship and the NERF Club.

2909
02:48:16,879 --> 02:48:21,520
Speaker 1: Right yeah, now, Ken Klippenstein talked to one of his

2910
02:48:21,959 --> 02:48:24,400
Speaker 1: co fellow peers during this period of time. He knew

2911
02:48:24,440 --> 02:48:26,760
Speaker 1: that while he was at NERF Club, cal had like

2912
02:48:27,040 --> 02:48:29,480
Speaker 1: kind of led there was like a conflict within the

2913
02:48:29,560 --> 02:48:33,000
Speaker 1: club over people modifying and otherwise altering their NERF guns

2914
02:48:33,040 --> 02:48:36,000
Speaker 1: to make them more resemble real weapons, as NERF has

2915
02:48:36,000 --> 02:48:37,959
Speaker 1: also come out with more guns that look like real

2916
02:48:38,040 --> 02:48:41,240
Speaker 1: guns over the years, and he was really against this, Like,

2917
02:48:41,320 --> 02:48:44,000
Speaker 1: he was very against the idea of like NERF guns

2918
02:48:44,080 --> 02:48:46,480
Speaker 1: that were modified to look like real guns, or just

2919
02:48:46,600 --> 02:48:49,320
Speaker 1: like people playing with things that looked like real guns.

2920
02:48:50,040 --> 02:48:53,960
Speaker 2: Now, fast forward to the actual day of the shooting.

2921
02:48:54,360 --> 02:48:57,800
Speaker 1: His blue sky account got found fairly quickly alongside the LinkedIn.

2922
02:48:58,240 --> 02:49:01,480
Speaker 1: Obviously that got deleted in very short order, but it

2923
02:49:01,640 --> 02:49:05,760
Speaker 1: was archived, thankfully by a very nice person who realized

2924
02:49:05,760 --> 02:49:08,440
Speaker 1: that it would probably be useful to have actual documentation

2925
02:49:08,560 --> 02:49:10,879
Speaker 1: about what this guy was doing online rather than rely

2926
02:49:11,040 --> 02:49:13,680
Speaker 1: on a bunch of different articles making claims. So I

2927
02:49:13,800 --> 02:49:15,880
Speaker 1: went through all of that, you know, as soon as

2928
02:49:15,920 --> 02:49:18,520
Speaker 1: it came out. He had about five hundred followers who

2929
02:49:18,560 --> 02:49:21,080
Speaker 1: was following about one hundred and fourteen people. He did

2930
02:49:21,120 --> 02:49:25,039
Speaker 1: not post often on his own, but when he did,

2931
02:49:25,320 --> 02:49:28,000
Speaker 1: in like the two different occasions I could find of

2932
02:49:28,080 --> 02:49:30,480
Speaker 1: him like posting on his own in this incomplete archive

2933
02:49:30,600 --> 02:49:33,160
Speaker 1: of his Blue Sky. One of them was him posting

2934
02:49:33,400 --> 02:49:37,520
Speaker 1: in like sympathy and solidarity with Ukraine, which is something

2935
02:49:37,560 --> 02:49:40,280
Speaker 1: that was very consistent. He reposted a ton of different

2936
02:49:40,320 --> 02:49:43,680
Speaker 1: fundraisers from different Ukrainian military units that was.

2937
02:49:43,680 --> 02:49:46,359
Speaker 6: At his user bio as well's support for Ukraine.

2938
02:49:46,840 --> 02:49:51,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was massively supportive of Ukraine and very angry

2939
02:49:51,520 --> 02:49:54,959
Speaker 1: at the Trump administration's failure to follow through with US

2940
02:49:55,080 --> 02:49:57,960
Speaker 1: obligations in that regard. And the only other post of

2941
02:49:58,080 --> 02:50:00,040
Speaker 1: his that was like him writing something that I I

2942
02:50:00,160 --> 02:50:04,920
Speaker 1: saw was him basically critiquing an article about using AI

2943
02:50:05,080 --> 02:50:07,360
Speaker 1: in the classroom, and like people who were advocated use

2944
02:50:07,400 --> 02:50:09,280
Speaker 1: of AI in the classroom, he's very much against that.

2945
02:50:09,640 --> 02:50:12,160
Speaker 1: He was a reposter, though he was a reposter, and

2946
02:50:12,200 --> 02:50:14,120
Speaker 1: we'll talk about like some of the things he reposted.

2947
02:50:14,560 --> 02:50:17,400
Speaker 1: His bio read hi, I'm a random Californian guy, with

2948
02:50:17,480 --> 02:50:20,480
Speaker 1: posts about American politics, support for Ukraine, and observations of

2949
02:50:20,520 --> 02:50:23,480
Speaker 1: small creatures. And then he includes a quote, I choose

2950
02:50:23,560 --> 02:50:26,000
Speaker 1: my own battlefields, not through my blood, but with my heart.

2951
02:50:26,160 --> 02:50:28,200
Speaker 1: I stand on the battlefield to protect what I want.

2952
02:50:28,840 --> 02:50:31,440
Speaker 1: So that is I like type that quote in and

2953
02:50:31,600 --> 02:50:33,680
Speaker 1: that is a quote from an anime, the same anime

2954
02:50:33,800 --> 02:50:38,920
Speaker 1: that his his profile picture was also from this specific anime,

2955
02:50:39,040 --> 02:50:42,840
Speaker 1: which is Kagura. I don't know how that's pronounced. I

2956
02:50:42,879 --> 02:50:45,920
Speaker 1: think the character that he had is PfP of was Kagura.

2957
02:50:46,240 --> 02:50:49,240
Speaker 1: It's this like red haired lady with these weird like

2958
02:50:49,600 --> 02:50:52,600
Speaker 1: ball things on either side of her hair. Like I

2959
02:50:52,640 --> 02:50:55,040
Speaker 1: don't fully know how to describe this lady's hairstyle. It's

2960
02:50:55,120 --> 02:50:58,760
Speaker 1: kind of like vaguely Princess Leiah esque. And that appears

2961
02:50:58,879 --> 02:51:04,039
Speaker 1: to be whos his PfP photo is. Okay, the series

2962
02:51:04,160 --> 02:51:07,080
Speaker 1: is called Gintama. I don't know much about this. I've

2963
02:51:07,120 --> 02:51:09,560
Speaker 1: heard people online being like, oh, he was a fan

2964
02:51:09,640 --> 02:51:13,800
Speaker 1: of like this anime that means something or other, but like,

2965
02:51:13,879 --> 02:51:16,440
Speaker 1: I don't actually understand enough about the anime to give

2966
02:51:16,640 --> 02:51:18,960
Speaker 1: much of an analysis of that. I think it's just

2967
02:51:19,000 --> 02:51:21,520
Speaker 1: people being like, because of the character he likes, it

2968
02:51:21,640 --> 02:51:23,480
Speaker 1: makes sense that he's a guy who would do something

2969
02:51:23,840 --> 02:51:26,160
Speaker 1: very extreme. I don't know enough about the anime to

2970
02:51:26,480 --> 02:51:30,040
Speaker 1: say how relevant that is, But the quote kind of

2971
02:51:30,120 --> 02:51:33,360
Speaker 1: does sound relevant to what he actually did, Like I

2972
02:51:33,560 --> 02:51:35,520
Speaker 1: stand on the battlefield to protect what I want.

2973
02:51:36,000 --> 02:51:38,200
Speaker 2: And you can read stuff like that in his manifesto.

2974
02:51:38,480 --> 02:51:40,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, you can read stuff like that as manifesto, which

2975
02:51:40,440 --> 02:51:44,000
Speaker 1: we'll talk about. His actual reposts are very normal lib coded. Yeah,

2976
02:51:44,040 --> 02:51:47,480
Speaker 1: he's a liberal hugueally supportive of Ukraine. Nothing about Palestine

2977
02:51:47,760 --> 02:51:51,280
Speaker 1: in there, nothing about Israel in there. Photo has since

2978
02:51:51,320 --> 02:51:52,960
Speaker 1: come out that appears to be a legitimate of him

2979
02:51:53,000 --> 02:51:55,080
Speaker 1: wearing like an IDF shirt some time ago.

2980
02:51:56,120 --> 02:51:58,039
Speaker 2: He doesn't say anything. Again in the.

2981
02:51:58,120 --> 02:52:00,000
Speaker 1: Limited we don't also have we don't have his whole

2982
02:52:00,160 --> 02:52:03,000
Speaker 1: bluesky in here. In the limited archive we have, I

2983
02:52:03,040 --> 02:52:05,320
Speaker 1: don't see anything of him like him talking at all

2984
02:52:05,560 --> 02:52:07,720
Speaker 1: about Israel. So I don't have enough to say that,

2985
02:52:07,840 --> 02:52:10,840
Speaker 1: like he was strongly supportive, but he certainly there's a

2986
02:52:10,959 --> 02:52:14,240
Speaker 1: real discrepancy between how he talks about Ukraine and and

2987
02:52:14,360 --> 02:52:17,520
Speaker 1: him mentioning anything at all about what's happening in Gaza.

2988
02:52:17,680 --> 02:52:17,840
Speaker 2: Right.

2989
02:52:18,080 --> 02:52:21,080
Speaker 6: Yeah, what is believed to be his Twitter accountter has

2990
02:52:21,080 --> 02:52:24,120
Speaker 6: also been scraped and not as well archives, but there's

2991
02:52:24,160 --> 02:52:29,440
Speaker 6: there's screenshots of reposts on Twitter reposting Brianna Wu with

2992
02:52:29,600 --> 02:52:35,080
Speaker 6: some criticism of pro Palestine protesters or things that are

2993
02:52:35,120 --> 02:52:38,720
Speaker 6: critical of Palestine and in a nominal way supportive of Israel.

2994
02:52:39,360 --> 02:52:41,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's kind of hard to tell.

2995
02:52:41,320 --> 02:52:43,400
Speaker 1: Was he just more quiet about this online because he

2996
02:52:43,440 --> 02:52:47,640
Speaker 1: wanted to avoid, you know, getting dogpiled, or is this

2997
02:52:47,920 --> 02:52:50,560
Speaker 1: just something that as the genocide gout worse and worse,

2998
02:52:50,600 --> 02:52:53,440
Speaker 1: he became less willing to talk about. I don't know,

2999
02:52:53,560 --> 02:52:55,600
Speaker 1: but it's it's kind of it's just noteworthy how much

3000
02:52:55,959 --> 02:52:58,560
Speaker 1: like how absent that kind of discussion is next to

3001
02:52:58,720 --> 02:53:00,039
Speaker 1: how often he talks about grain.

3002
02:53:00,080 --> 02:53:00,960
Speaker 6: Next to the Ukraine stuff.

3003
02:53:01,000 --> 02:53:01,200
Speaker 3: Yeah.

3004
02:53:01,440 --> 02:53:01,600
Speaker 4: Yeah.

3005
02:53:01,840 --> 02:53:04,720
Speaker 1: He also posted a bunch of very normal posts. There

3006
02:53:04,840 --> 02:53:07,440
Speaker 1: was one from a user you know, if you guys remember,

3007
02:53:07,480 --> 02:53:09,520
Speaker 1: like a week or so ago, the New York Times

3008
02:53:09,600 --> 02:53:13,480
Speaker 1: published an interview with Hassan Piker, the streamer, and the

3009
02:53:13,879 --> 02:53:15,800
Speaker 1: article was titled the rich don't play by the rules,

3010
02:53:15,920 --> 02:53:17,760
Speaker 1: So why should I? Why petty theft might be the

3011
02:53:17,800 --> 02:53:21,120
Speaker 1: new political protest. It's where Hassan tried to introduce the

3012
02:53:21,200 --> 02:53:23,720
Speaker 1: term micro alluding to the discourse, which I don't support

3013
02:53:23,760 --> 02:53:25,840
Speaker 1: at all, but it was like a pro shoplifting kind

3014
02:53:25,879 --> 02:53:28,280
Speaker 1: of like are you kind of getting a casual and

3015
02:53:28,480 --> 02:53:31,959
Speaker 1: jokey pro shoplifting argument, right, I don't want to People

3016
02:53:32,000 --> 02:53:33,880
Speaker 1: have blown this out of proportion, but it's interesting that

3017
02:53:33,959 --> 02:53:37,160
Speaker 1: he came down against Hassan's side on that. He was

3018
02:53:37,240 --> 02:53:40,920
Speaker 1: basically reposting someone who was like, Hey, I've spent a

3019
02:53:40,959 --> 02:53:43,080
Speaker 1: lot of time in countries where graft and grifting are

3020
02:53:43,160 --> 02:53:45,600
Speaker 1: like normal, and it's really bad for that to happen.

3021
02:53:45,640 --> 02:53:48,240
Speaker 1: You don't want that to happen to your country. So

3022
02:53:48,560 --> 02:53:52,280
Speaker 1: he's certainly not like the on the far left, like

3023
02:53:52,560 --> 02:53:56,280
Speaker 1: direct action is good. I love committing crimes anarchist side

3024
02:53:56,320 --> 02:53:58,400
Speaker 1: of things. He is not at all that kind of guy.

3025
02:53:58,959 --> 02:54:02,400
Speaker 1: He's a Will Stancilite. He is a lot of Will

3026
02:54:02,440 --> 02:54:05,480
Speaker 1: Stancel reposts, a lot of Will stancil posts. Yeah, yeah,

3027
02:54:05,680 --> 02:54:07,680
Speaker 1: he reposted me a couple of times. He posted me

3028
02:54:07,800 --> 02:54:10,800
Speaker 1: like talking about like the Pope, right, like because making

3029
02:54:10,840 --> 02:54:13,720
Speaker 1: fun of Trump for calling the Pope soft on crime,

3030
02:54:14,240 --> 02:54:17,400
Speaker 1: like not any of my like spicy.

3031
02:54:17,080 --> 02:54:20,440
Speaker 6: Takes, right, just like viral posts on Blue Sky.

3032
02:54:20,800 --> 02:54:23,680
Speaker 1: He didn't do a lot of spicy tapes. He reposted

3033
02:54:23,720 --> 02:54:26,040
Speaker 1: a lot of normal viral stuff you'd expect. He was

3034
02:54:26,080 --> 02:54:29,480
Speaker 1: really angry about COVID nineteen. He hates Elon Musk. He

3035
02:54:29,560 --> 02:54:32,320
Speaker 1: reposted a lot of like, you know, Elon Musk wants

3036
02:54:32,400 --> 02:54:35,800
Speaker 1: poor African children to die, like kind of content talking

3037
02:54:35,800 --> 02:54:38,040
Speaker 1: about that after some of the more recent articles about

3038
02:54:38,280 --> 02:54:41,200
Speaker 1: how many people died as a result of like the

3039
02:54:41,520 --> 02:54:44,480
Speaker 1: American like aid cuts, that Musk was a major pardon.

3040
02:54:44,760 --> 02:54:48,280
Speaker 1: He was very angry about that. He reposted Bill Crystal

3041
02:54:48,360 --> 02:54:51,280
Speaker 1: saying abolish ice, okay. And there's a couple of different

3042
02:54:51,320 --> 02:54:54,400
Speaker 1: posts that he shared about or from people who were

3043
02:54:54,440 --> 02:54:58,720
Speaker 1: criticizing the White House Correspondence dinner, and particularly like when

3044
02:54:59,080 --> 02:55:01,880
Speaker 1: Jake Tapper fucking made a post about, like here's the

3045
02:55:03,160 --> 02:55:06,160
Speaker 1: napkins that we've got that have like freedom of the press,

3046
02:55:06,240 --> 02:55:09,200
Speaker 1: you know, the First Amendment stuff on it that like

3047
02:55:09,720 --> 02:55:11,600
Speaker 1: is supposed to be like this is our protest against

3048
02:55:11,600 --> 02:55:14,880
Speaker 1: the president, right, Like we've got these these monogram napkins,

3049
02:55:15,280 --> 02:55:16,760
Speaker 1: And he made fun of that, like a lot of

3050
02:55:16,800 --> 02:55:19,640
Speaker 1: people did. He was generally critical of anyone who would

3051
02:55:19,680 --> 02:55:23,000
Speaker 1: be at the correspondence dinner, which was reflected in his

3052
02:55:23,120 --> 02:55:26,440
Speaker 1: manifesto where he said that like the journalists and the

3053
02:55:26,520 --> 02:55:28,640
Speaker 1: other people at the event who are not in the

3054
02:55:28,680 --> 02:55:31,880
Speaker 1: administration aren't my targets. And you know, he said he

3055
02:55:31,959 --> 02:55:35,320
Speaker 1: didn't want to hit them, but also he was quote

3056
02:55:35,360 --> 02:55:37,680
Speaker 1: I would still go through most everyone here to get

3057
02:55:37,720 --> 02:55:39,800
Speaker 1: to the targets if it were absolutely necessary, on the

3058
02:55:39,840 --> 02:55:42,320
Speaker 1: basis that most people chose to attend a speech by

3059
02:55:42,360 --> 02:55:44,800
Speaker 1: a pedophile, rapist and trader and are thus complicit.

3060
02:55:45,000 --> 02:55:46,400
Speaker 2: But I really hope it doesn't come.

3061
02:55:46,280 --> 02:55:46,920
Speaker 3: To that, right.

3062
02:55:47,240 --> 02:55:52,400
Speaker 6: Yeah, Another interesting bit from his manifesto's quote administration officials,

3063
02:55:52,760 --> 02:55:57,280
Speaker 6: not including mister Fatel, they are targets prioritized from highest

3064
02:55:57,400 --> 02:55:58,320
Speaker 6: ranking to lowest.

3065
02:55:58,520 --> 02:55:58,720
Speaker 5: Yeah.

3066
02:55:59,200 --> 02:56:01,480
Speaker 6: Interesting, interesting parenthetical.

3067
02:56:02,120 --> 02:56:04,360
Speaker 1: I wonder if that's just because some people were joking

3068
02:56:04,480 --> 02:56:06,960
Speaker 1: after that article came out about how Cash betel they

3069
02:56:07,000 --> 02:56:08,800
Speaker 1: had to like break down his door because he was

3070
02:56:08,879 --> 02:56:12,200
Speaker 1: too drunk to reach. People were joking like, maybe it's

3071
02:56:12,280 --> 02:56:14,560
Speaker 1: best if Cash stays in office because he's so I

3072
02:56:14,680 --> 02:56:15,480
Speaker 1: wonder if that was.

3073
02:56:15,520 --> 02:56:16,600
Speaker 2: The joke he was making.

3074
02:56:16,840 --> 02:56:19,240
Speaker 1: Unclear what he meant by that, But he doesn't give

3075
02:56:19,280 --> 02:56:21,440
Speaker 1: us any reason to believe aso, and he doesn't share

3076
02:56:21,480 --> 02:56:24,160
Speaker 1: any jokes like that, right, So that is kind of

3077
02:56:24,440 --> 02:56:25,400
Speaker 1: legitimately baffling.

3078
02:56:25,480 --> 02:56:28,879
Speaker 6: Now, most of the manifesto is like apologizing to people

3079
02:56:29,000 --> 02:56:32,120
Speaker 6: he knows yep, for how this will be like disruptive, yeah,

3080
02:56:32,200 --> 02:56:35,000
Speaker 6: and then talking about his own rules of engagement, yes,

3081
02:56:35,600 --> 02:56:38,440
Speaker 6: which he says, quote probably in a terrible format, but

3082
02:56:38,560 --> 02:56:41,480
Speaker 6: I'm not military, so too bad un quote Yeah.

3083
02:56:41,800 --> 02:56:45,160
Speaker 1: And it's it's interesting because he had also shared at

3084
02:56:45,240 --> 02:56:47,360
Speaker 1: least one post on Blue Sky that was like kind

3085
02:56:47,360 --> 02:56:49,400
Speaker 1: of pro gun control, that was like talking about how

3086
02:56:49,600 --> 02:56:52,360
Speaker 1: it's bad to have a gun, basically like it increases

3087
02:56:52,400 --> 02:56:54,240
Speaker 1: the danger that you're in, which it did for this guy.

3088
02:56:55,080 --> 02:56:58,760
Speaker 1: But it is interesting in terms of the firearms he chose,

3089
02:56:58,840 --> 02:57:01,320
Speaker 1: because this is clearly a guy who supports more gun control.

3090
02:57:01,440 --> 02:57:05,439
Speaker 1: He seems to find it distasteful certainly to like celebrate

3091
02:57:05,720 --> 02:57:09,920
Speaker 1: guns right and celebrate like military style weapons. I kind

3092
02:57:09,920 --> 02:57:12,400
Speaker 1: of wonder if he picked the firearms he picked because

3093
02:57:12,400 --> 02:57:15,080
Speaker 1: they did not look like the pistol didn't look like

3094
02:57:15,160 --> 02:57:17,920
Speaker 1: a glock or like the standard police guns that he

3095
02:57:18,000 --> 02:57:20,400
Speaker 1: sees people owning, and a shotgun doesn't look like an

3096
02:57:20,600 --> 02:57:23,480
Speaker 1: AR fifteen AAR fifteen. Yeah, I kind of wonder, although

3097
02:57:23,480 --> 02:57:25,960
Speaker 1: he says it was to minimize penetration, so maybe that's

3098
02:57:26,000 --> 02:57:26,520
Speaker 1: more likely.

3099
02:57:26,760 --> 02:57:28,080
Speaker 6: The other thing I want to mention is because the

3100
02:57:28,120 --> 02:57:30,680
Speaker 6: shotgun was purchased in August, and he does make a

3101
02:57:30,720 --> 02:57:34,480
Speaker 6: few references in the manifesto too, Yes, like thinking of

3102
02:57:34,560 --> 02:57:37,240
Speaker 6: having done something like this for quite a while, but

3103
02:57:37,400 --> 02:57:40,480
Speaker 6: this was his first opportunity that he saw that seemed

3104
02:57:40,720 --> 02:57:41,600
Speaker 6: semi possible.

3105
02:57:42,320 --> 02:57:42,520
Speaker 3: Yeah.

3106
02:57:43,040 --> 02:57:45,760
Speaker 1: And I also had the thought that, well, when he

3107
02:57:45,879 --> 02:57:48,640
Speaker 1: bought the shotgun, because he specifically states that he wants

3108
02:57:48,640 --> 02:57:51,680
Speaker 1: to use a shotgun to minimize like casualties, then the

3109
02:57:51,760 --> 02:57:54,120
Speaker 1: date at which he bought the shotgun might be the

3110
02:57:54,200 --> 02:57:56,360
Speaker 1: date at which he decided he was going to do this, right,

3111
02:57:56,440 --> 02:57:58,640
Speaker 1: or it might be the point which he started taking actions.

3112
02:57:59,320 --> 02:58:02,040
Speaker 1: It would make some that maybe that would be around

3113
02:58:02,120 --> 02:58:05,320
Speaker 1: when he had started planning to do this. And you know,

3114
02:58:05,720 --> 02:58:08,800
Speaker 1: there's so much different shit happened around August of twenty

3115
02:58:08,840 --> 02:58:11,440
Speaker 1: twenty five, it's kind of impossible to say this is

3116
02:58:11,520 --> 02:58:15,480
Speaker 1: definitely it. I did notice that August twenty fifth, twenty

3117
02:58:15,520 --> 02:58:18,760
Speaker 1: twenty five, is when Trump issued his additional measures to

3118
02:58:18,800 --> 02:58:22,200
Speaker 1: address the crime Emergency in the District of Columbia Executive Order.

3119
02:58:22,400 --> 02:58:24,480
Speaker 6: Yeah, the military occupation of DC.

3120
02:58:25,000 --> 02:58:25,280
Speaker 3: Yeah.

3121
02:58:26,360 --> 02:58:28,160
Speaker 1: So, and this is when Trump is really and a

3122
02:58:28,200 --> 02:58:30,400
Speaker 1: bunch of there's a bunch of different news stories around

3123
02:58:30,400 --> 02:58:33,280
Speaker 1: Trump trying to deploy the National Guard in US cities,

3124
02:58:33,320 --> 02:58:34,880
Speaker 1: And I kind of wonder if maybe that's when he

3125
02:58:35,440 --> 02:58:37,840
Speaker 1: but that's purely theoretical. There was a lot of other

3126
02:58:37,920 --> 02:58:41,400
Speaker 1: bad stuff happening that, you know, so who's to say.

3127
02:58:41,520 --> 02:58:44,720
Speaker 1: He also seems to be angry about our war against Iran,

3128
02:58:45,120 --> 02:58:46,920
Speaker 1: like the fact, like the war of choice that Trump

3129
02:58:47,000 --> 02:58:49,480
Speaker 1: launched against Iran. He didn't get a post a lot

3130
02:58:49,560 --> 02:58:52,520
Speaker 1: about it. But there are some references in the manifesto

3131
02:58:52,640 --> 02:58:55,000
Speaker 1: that kind of make me feel like that that may

3132
02:58:55,080 --> 02:58:57,959
Speaker 1: have also been like a major thing that helped push

3133
02:58:58,080 --> 02:59:01,880
Speaker 1: him to make this decision, because he specifically stated that

3134
02:59:02,040 --> 02:59:04,160
Speaker 1: I'm a citizen of the United States of America. What

3135
02:59:04,280 --> 02:59:07,560
Speaker 1: my representatives do reflects me, and I am no longer

3136
02:59:07,600 --> 02:59:09,720
Speaker 1: one to permit a pedophile, rapist, and trader to coat

3137
02:59:09,800 --> 02:59:12,360
Speaker 1: my hands with his crimes, right, Like, there's some reasons

3138
02:59:12,400 --> 02:59:14,640
Speaker 1: to believe that that probably played into it as well.

3139
02:59:15,240 --> 02:59:20,800
Speaker 6: Interestingly, he does sign the manifesto with his blue sky username.

3140
02:59:21,000 --> 02:59:22,600
Speaker 6: Sure does Cold Force.

3141
02:59:22,879 --> 02:59:25,960
Speaker 2: Yeah he thought that was cool. Yeah, perhaps that was

3142
02:59:26,000 --> 02:59:28,760
Speaker 2: her name he used. I don't know, and there's nothing

3143
02:59:28,800 --> 02:59:31,560
Speaker 2: activities or like it was. Maybe that's something to him.

3144
02:59:31,760 --> 02:59:34,320
Speaker 1: Another thing that's probably worth talking about because Trump has

3145
02:59:34,400 --> 02:59:36,560
Speaker 1: made the claim several times. This guy was anti Christian.

3146
02:59:36,640 --> 02:59:39,520
Speaker 1: That hatred of Christianity is what drove him. As I

3147
02:59:39,720 --> 02:59:41,840
Speaker 1: said before, in Caltech he was a member of the

3148
02:59:41,920 --> 02:59:43,760
Speaker 1: Christian group. I'll talk about that in a second. But

3149
02:59:43,879 --> 02:59:47,400
Speaker 1: in his manifesto he specifically justifies what he's doing as

3150
02:59:47,480 --> 02:59:50,039
Speaker 1: a Christian. There is a segment in there where he's

3151
02:59:50,040 --> 02:59:52,040
Speaker 1: going through like some objections he knows people in his

3152
02:59:52,160 --> 02:59:55,240
Speaker 1: life will have, and kind of rebutting them. An objection

3153
02:59:55,360 --> 02:59:57,199
Speaker 1: one is as a Christian, you should turn the other cheek.

3154
02:59:57,480 --> 02:59:59,720
Speaker 1: Rebuttal turning the other cheek is for when you yourself

3155
02:59:59,760 --> 03:00:02,280
Speaker 1: are oppressed. I'm not the person raped in a detention camp.

3156
03:00:02,320 --> 03:00:04,680
Speaker 1: I'm not the fisherman executed without trial. I'm not a

3157
03:00:04,720 --> 03:00:06,840
Speaker 1: school kid blown up, or a child starved, or a

3158
03:00:06,879 --> 03:00:10,160
Speaker 1: teenage girl abused by the many criminals in this administration. Right,

3159
03:00:10,520 --> 03:00:14,960
Speaker 1: So he specifically is justifying this as a Christians on

3160
03:00:15,120 --> 03:00:18,320
Speaker 1: Christian grounds. He thanks his church, which seems to have

3161
03:00:18,400 --> 03:00:20,920
Speaker 1: been a major part of his life. So there's a

3162
03:00:21,040 --> 03:00:25,720
Speaker 1: quote from Ken Klippenstein's article about his time at Caltech.

3163
03:00:26,120 --> 03:00:28,800
Speaker 1: He was pretty prominent at the Caltech Christian Fellowship, pretty

3164
03:00:28,840 --> 03:00:31,360
Speaker 1: Christian and mellow. If I didn't see his face eating carpet.

3165
03:00:31,400 --> 03:00:33,560
Speaker 1: I would have never believed it. And then I found

3166
03:00:33,560 --> 03:00:36,160
Speaker 1: a Christianity Today piece that just came up a few

3167
03:00:36,240 --> 03:00:39,280
Speaker 1: hours ago, and a line from that is Alan's father,

3168
03:00:39,400 --> 03:00:42,000
Speaker 1: Thomas Allen, was listed as an elder at Grace United

3169
03:00:42,040 --> 03:00:45,160
Speaker 1: Reformed Church and Torrance and an evangelical congregation that describes

3170
03:00:45,160 --> 03:00:48,240
Speaker 1: itself as preaching a gospel that is Christ centered, covenental,

3171
03:00:48,320 --> 03:00:51,080
Speaker 1: and confessional. The church's leadership page and social media pages

3172
03:00:51,120 --> 03:00:54,720
Speaker 1: have been pulled down, and yeah, it's fucked up. They

3173
03:00:54,760 --> 03:00:57,280
Speaker 1: had to have like security guards, armed guards, like escort

3174
03:00:57,360 --> 03:01:00,240
Speaker 1: worshippers inside and out this weekend just because of like

3175
03:01:00,360 --> 03:01:04,600
Speaker 1: all of the press around this. Elizabeth ter Linden, who

3176
03:01:04,640 --> 03:01:06,360
Speaker 1: also knew him at the time, told The New York

3177
03:01:06,440 --> 03:01:09,640
Speaker 1: Times he was definitely a strong believer in evangelical Christianity.

3178
03:01:09,640 --> 03:01:10,920
Speaker 1: At the time that I knew him, she was in

3179
03:01:11,000 --> 03:01:14,320
Speaker 1: the Caltech Christian Fellowship with him. So this guy appears

3180
03:01:14,360 --> 03:01:17,840
Speaker 1: to have been like a very strong evangelical Christian, like

3181
03:01:17,959 --> 03:01:19,080
Speaker 1: a liberal Christian.

3182
03:01:19,800 --> 03:01:20,840
Speaker 2: We don't exactly know.

3183
03:01:21,200 --> 03:01:23,960
Speaker 1: Was he always was his Christianity always like progressive and

3184
03:01:24,200 --> 03:01:27,280
Speaker 1: liberal tinted, or was he kind of more conservative at

3185
03:01:27,320 --> 03:01:29,400
Speaker 1: a different point in his life we do know that

3186
03:01:29,600 --> 03:01:31,680
Speaker 1: within the last couple of years he got involved in

3187
03:01:31,800 --> 03:01:35,200
Speaker 1: left wing activism in Los Angeles. His sister told law

3188
03:01:35,240 --> 03:01:38,680
Speaker 1: enforcement that after he got more involved in left wing activism,

3189
03:01:38,760 --> 03:01:41,960
Speaker 1: particularly a group who called themselves the White Awakes, which

3190
03:01:42,160 --> 03:01:46,280
Speaker 1: was referencing an anti slavery protest in the eighteen sixties.

3191
03:01:46,600 --> 03:01:48,200
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, okay, right, Like these were some of the

3192
03:01:48,240 --> 03:01:50,840
Speaker 1: people who like back Lincoln. So he joined some group

3193
03:01:50,959 --> 03:01:53,080
Speaker 1: and Alick has called the White Awakes for some period

3194
03:01:53,160 --> 03:01:56,200
Speaker 1: of time, he starts talking more radically, starts showing up

3195
03:01:56,200 --> 03:01:58,360
Speaker 1: to more protests, and I think he's helping with a

3196
03:01:58,400 --> 03:02:00,760
Speaker 1: couple of different kinds of things with the cup different groups.

3197
03:02:01,280 --> 03:02:03,400
Speaker 1: But that's when his sister says, he starts making like

3198
03:02:03,720 --> 03:02:06,880
Speaker 1: a lot more radical statements and maybe sometimes aggressive statements.

3199
03:02:06,920 --> 03:02:08,600
Speaker 1: And that lines up with when he buys a gun

3200
03:02:08,920 --> 03:02:12,120
Speaker 1: and he starts training after twenty twenty three. So this

3201
03:02:12,280 --> 03:02:14,440
Speaker 1: may have just been a thing where he he didn't

3202
03:02:14,480 --> 03:02:17,199
Speaker 1: have a full plan at that point, but he accepted

3203
03:02:17,280 --> 03:02:20,280
Speaker 1: the possibility that he might need to do violence in

3204
03:02:20,400 --> 03:02:23,400
Speaker 1: order to support, you know, his his ideals. We don't

3205
03:02:23,440 --> 03:02:26,440
Speaker 1: really know, but that's that's all we've gotten in terms

3206
03:02:26,480 --> 03:02:27,000
Speaker 1: of a journey.

3207
03:02:27,120 --> 03:02:29,800
Speaker 6: Yeah, in October of twenty twenty four, he did make

3208
03:02:29,879 --> 03:02:34,039
Speaker 6: one donation to the themircial campaign via.

3209
03:02:33,959 --> 03:02:35,280
Speaker 2: Act twenty five dollars.

3210
03:02:36,120 --> 03:02:39,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, but not a lot of not a long history

3211
03:02:39,160 --> 03:02:41,080
Speaker 1: of donations to the party, not a long history of

3212
03:02:41,200 --> 03:02:44,360
Speaker 1: like volunteering for the Democratic Party specifically. Seems to have

3213
03:02:44,400 --> 03:02:47,080
Speaker 1: been a pretty loyal voter. Yeah, but this is a

3214
03:02:47,160 --> 03:02:49,600
Speaker 1: guy who I think really, during like the it would

3215
03:02:49,600 --> 03:02:51,360
Speaker 1: be during the Biden years, gets more involved in like

3216
03:02:51,440 --> 03:02:55,240
Speaker 1: left wing protests and organizing. He becomes angrier, and then

3217
03:02:55,280 --> 03:02:58,280
Speaker 1: after twenty twenty four, he gets really really angry at

3218
03:02:58,400 --> 03:03:02,320
Speaker 1: Trump and Evince, probably some time late last year, decides

3219
03:03:02,360 --> 03:03:06,359
Speaker 1: to take action, and for whatever reason, picks the Correspondent's

3220
03:03:06,360 --> 03:03:08,920
Speaker 1: dinner to do it. It's probably also worth noting that

3221
03:03:09,640 --> 03:03:12,879
Speaker 1: he sends this manifesto thing out right before he carries

3222
03:03:12,920 --> 03:03:15,080
Speaker 1: out the attack, Like he's staying in the hotel for

3223
03:03:15,160 --> 03:03:15,600
Speaker 1: a couple of.

3224
03:03:15,680 --> 03:03:18,720
Speaker 2: Days before all this happens. He booked two nights.

3225
03:03:19,000 --> 03:03:21,400
Speaker 1: We actually get him to reflect a little on the

3226
03:03:21,520 --> 03:03:24,960
Speaker 1: security that he's experienced while he's been there, and that's

3227
03:03:25,000 --> 03:03:28,640
Speaker 1: a really interesting part of this. He says, I expected

3228
03:03:28,680 --> 03:03:31,240
Speaker 1: security cameras at every bend bugged hotel rooms, armed agents

3229
03:03:31,280 --> 03:03:33,920
Speaker 1: every ten feet, metal detectors out the wazoo. What I got,

3230
03:03:34,000 --> 03:03:36,560
Speaker 1: who knows, maybe they're pranking me, is nothing. No damn security,

3231
03:03:36,640 --> 03:03:38,280
Speaker 1: not in transport, not in the hotel, and not in

3232
03:03:38,320 --> 03:03:38,640
Speaker 1: the event.

3233
03:03:38,879 --> 03:03:38,920
Speaker 7: Like.

3234
03:03:39,000 --> 03:03:40,800
Speaker 1: The one thing that I immediately noticed walking to the

3235
03:03:40,800 --> 03:03:42,680
Speaker 1: hotel is the sense of arrogance. I walk in with

3236
03:03:42,800 --> 03:03:45,200
Speaker 1: multiple weapons and not a single person there considers the

3237
03:03:45,240 --> 03:03:46,600
Speaker 1: possibility that I could be a threat.

3238
03:03:47,200 --> 03:03:47,880
Speaker 2: Crazy stuff.

3239
03:03:48,360 --> 03:03:50,880
Speaker 6: Most of the security seemed to be isolated around the

3240
03:03:50,959 --> 03:03:54,640
Speaker 6: actual ballroom and the levels immediately above and below.

3241
03:03:54,680 --> 03:03:56,920
Speaker 1: And again, he doesn't get anywhere close to the president

3242
03:03:57,080 --> 03:04:01,480
Speaker 1: or any other important person, right, So you could argue

3243
03:04:01,520 --> 03:04:04,120
Speaker 1: the security did its job. He was just in the

3244
03:04:04,240 --> 03:04:07,680
Speaker 1: same hotel. But yeah, crazy stuff.

3245
03:04:07,720 --> 03:04:09,160
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't have anything else.

3246
03:04:09,640 --> 03:04:13,320
Speaker 6: Yeah, let's go on ad break and then return to

3247
03:04:13,400 --> 03:04:17,120
Speaker 6: briefly discuss some of the conspiracy theories that have spawned

3248
03:04:17,640 --> 03:04:32,120
Speaker 6: after this alleged shooting. Love it, okay, we are back.

3249
03:04:33,400 --> 03:04:38,320
Speaker 6: Immediately after the event took place, tons of conspiracy theories

3250
03:04:38,440 --> 03:04:42,240
Speaker 6: started cropping up, obviously piggybacking off of the Butler Pennsylvania ones.

3251
03:04:42,760 --> 03:04:46,439
Speaker 6: This was not helped by the confusion in early reports,

3252
03:04:46,520 --> 03:04:49,880
Speaker 6: because once you get every journalist in DC in one

3253
03:04:50,000 --> 03:04:52,960
Speaker 6: room and then an event happens, that means every journalist

3254
03:04:53,040 --> 03:04:55,760
Speaker 6: has a kind of different version of the event that

3255
03:04:55,879 --> 03:04:59,040
Speaker 6: gets immediately blasted out online and on the news. So

3256
03:04:59,440 --> 03:05:01,800
Speaker 6: there was no not a clear sequence of events. In

3257
03:05:01,879 --> 03:05:05,080
Speaker 6: the immediate aftermath of the shooting, there was reports that

3258
03:05:05,280 --> 03:05:08,400
Speaker 6: maybe was just dishes being dropped. Eventually it was clear

3259
03:05:08,440 --> 03:05:11,680
Speaker 6: that no, there was an actual shooting, and Wolf Flitzer

3260
03:05:11,760 --> 03:05:14,400
Speaker 6: did lose a shoe in the course of the events.

3261
03:05:14,560 --> 03:05:15,240
Speaker 2: He sure did.

3262
03:05:16,080 --> 03:05:16,560
Speaker 1: Poor Wolf.

3263
03:05:16,680 --> 03:05:20,840
Speaker 6: Now also not helping things. Trump was basically live truthing

3264
03:05:21,040 --> 03:05:23,800
Speaker 6: this investigation on the night of the shooting, uh huh,

3265
03:05:24,080 --> 03:05:26,440
Speaker 6: And it was not clear to many people that the

3266
03:05:26,440 --> 03:05:29,320
Speaker 6: shooting did not happen on the ballroom level, yeah, and

3267
03:05:29,360 --> 03:05:31,640
Speaker 6: that the shoot did not get close to the targets.

3268
03:05:32,360 --> 03:05:32,520
Speaker 7: Well.

3269
03:05:32,600 --> 03:05:35,640
Speaker 1: Also, the people in the main room were still very

3270
03:05:35,800 --> 03:05:38,680
Speaker 1: scared because like, oh, they had no real context on

3271
03:05:38,840 --> 03:05:42,360
Speaker 1: what was happening, and everyone around them just started freaking out.

3272
03:05:42,840 --> 03:05:45,760
Speaker 6: Yeah, because there's the military running around, secret Service running around.

3273
03:05:45,760 --> 03:05:47,840
Speaker 6: They heard gunshots. Yeah, it is a frightening thing. You're

3274
03:05:47,879 --> 03:05:51,279
Speaker 6: seeing jd. Vance get pulled off stage. Trump's stucking down.

3275
03:05:51,240 --> 03:05:54,320
Speaker 1: What I do feel is kind of interesting about this

3276
03:05:54,680 --> 03:05:57,760
Speaker 1: is you've got this whole DC class of like press

3277
03:05:58,040 --> 03:06:01,000
Speaker 1: and other important people who are not empower themselves but

3278
03:06:01,040 --> 03:06:03,320
Speaker 1: are close to it, and they do a lot of

3279
03:06:03,360 --> 03:06:05,680
Speaker 1: the things that they do because they like being close

3280
03:06:05,760 --> 03:06:08,800
Speaker 1: to power, and there's this illusion that comes with that.

3281
03:06:08,959 --> 03:06:10,680
Speaker 1: I think for a lot of these people of importance

3282
03:06:10,720 --> 03:06:13,280
Speaker 1: that gets ripped away when the Secret Service pulls all

3283
03:06:13,320 --> 03:06:15,160
Speaker 1: of the people who are important out of the room

3284
03:06:15,240 --> 03:06:17,800
Speaker 1: and you're just left wondering if you're in danger, Like

3285
03:06:18,560 --> 03:06:20,440
Speaker 1: that's what it'll be like if there's a nuclear war.

3286
03:06:20,520 --> 03:06:24,039
Speaker 1: All of these people will suddenly have the few folks

3287
03:06:24,080 --> 03:06:26,280
Speaker 1: who have a detail get ripped out of the room,

3288
03:06:26,640 --> 03:06:28,959
Speaker 1: and then you'll just hear the sirens start and have nothing,

3289
03:06:29,040 --> 03:06:31,879
Speaker 1: no idea what's happening, and realize that your whole life

3290
03:06:32,000 --> 03:06:34,200
Speaker 1: in pursuit of being close to power has brought you

3291
03:06:34,320 --> 03:06:38,359
Speaker 1: no security. Crazy stuff, wild times anyway, Garrison.

3292
03:06:38,720 --> 03:06:40,960
Speaker 6: What are the core pieces of quote unquote evidence that

3293
03:06:41,080 --> 03:06:43,080
Speaker 6: was used to assert that the shooting was some kind

3294
03:06:43,120 --> 03:06:47,119
Speaker 6: of false flag or syop? Was a comment made by

3295
03:06:47,320 --> 03:06:51,840
Speaker 6: Press Secretary Carolyn Levitt shortly before the dinner. This speech

3296
03:06:51,879 --> 03:06:54,480
Speaker 6: tonight will be classic Donald J.

3297
03:06:54,600 --> 03:06:54,920
Speaker 8: Trump.

3298
03:06:55,280 --> 03:06:58,120
Speaker 1: It'll be funny, it'll be entertaining, there will be some

3299
03:06:58,280 --> 03:06:59,400
Speaker 1: shots fired tonight.

3300
03:07:00,959 --> 03:07:01,560
Speaker 2: Great stuff.

3301
03:07:01,800 --> 03:07:04,959
Speaker 6: Poor choice of words. There on behalf of the press secretary.

3302
03:07:05,760 --> 03:07:06,960
Speaker 2: Excellent choice of words.

3303
03:07:07,080 --> 03:07:07,280
Speaker 6: Yeah.

3304
03:07:08,520 --> 03:07:11,039
Speaker 2: Also, though, like it's not a Dann Brown level when

3305
03:07:11,040 --> 03:07:13,480
Speaker 2: people are actually plotting conspiracy, they did go around leaving

3306
03:07:13,520 --> 03:07:17,000
Speaker 2: the little easter eggs for you to find, of course.

3307
03:07:17,240 --> 03:07:19,200
Speaker 6: Yeah, why why else would there why else would the

3308
03:07:19,240 --> 03:07:23,080
Speaker 6: deep state orchestrate like a top a top level secret

3309
03:07:23,400 --> 03:07:28,320
Speaker 6: secret syop and not not decide to leave little clues beforehand?

3310
03:07:28,640 --> 03:07:31,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, they got they have to leave little clues, Garrison.

3311
03:07:32,120 --> 03:07:34,560
Speaker 1: Have you listened to Alex Jones. That's part of the

3312
03:07:34,640 --> 03:07:36,880
Speaker 1: deal they make with the demons is that they have

3313
03:07:37,000 --> 03:07:39,359
Speaker 1: to They have to leave little clues for the evil.

3314
03:07:39,120 --> 03:07:40,640
Speaker 2: That they're doing while they're doing it.

3315
03:07:40,840 --> 03:07:42,560
Speaker 6: They call that the Riddler's law.

3316
03:07:43,360 --> 03:07:45,400
Speaker 2: Uh huh, that's right now.

3317
03:07:45,520 --> 03:07:50,120
Speaker 6: Another thing that got amplified in the conspiratorial miliu was

3318
03:07:50,280 --> 03:07:54,680
Speaker 6: a Twitter account with a Pepe profile picture wearing the

3319
03:07:54,760 --> 03:07:57,360
Speaker 6: same outfit as President Trump for the night of the Dinner,

3320
03:07:58,040 --> 03:08:02,000
Speaker 6: who tweeted the alleged shooter's name about two and a

3321
03:08:02,080 --> 03:08:06,680
Speaker 6: half years ago. This post is the account's only visible post.

3322
03:08:07,720 --> 03:08:09,760
Speaker 6: The banner image of the account is a bunch of

3323
03:08:09,800 --> 03:08:12,240
Speaker 6: streaks of color. But if you overlay the image of

3324
03:08:12,280 --> 03:08:14,440
Speaker 6: Trump holding its fist up in the air at Butler,

3325
03:08:14,760 --> 03:08:18,280
Speaker 6: the color streaks and the darkened areas line up with

3326
03:08:18,600 --> 03:08:22,480
Speaker 6: the Trump Butler photo. Now, the alleged shooter also had

3327
03:08:22,520 --> 03:08:25,440
Speaker 6: an undergraduate research fellowship at NASA for the summer of

3328
03:08:25,520 --> 03:08:28,360
Speaker 6: twenty to fourteen, and the name of this Twitter account

3329
03:08:28,400 --> 03:08:31,160
Speaker 6: matches the name of someone at lockeed Martin who published

3330
03:08:31,200 --> 03:08:34,240
Speaker 6: a NASA paper at the same time that the shooter

3331
03:08:34,440 --> 03:08:37,960
Speaker 6: was at NASA, and the shooter worked for the Jet

3332
03:08:38,080 --> 03:08:41,800
Speaker 6: Propulsion Lab, the same labs that those scientists who have

3333
03:08:41,840 --> 03:08:47,880
Speaker 6: gone missing also have been working out of. When I

3334
03:08:47,959 --> 03:08:49,760
Speaker 6: saw this, I started feeling a little bit scared because

3335
03:08:49,760 --> 03:08:53,680
Speaker 6: I thought I was getting too I don't know, I

3336
03:08:53,879 --> 03:08:58,840
Speaker 6: was afraid, needing help. But this is But that's not

3337
03:08:58,920 --> 03:09:04,119
Speaker 6: all because the Pepe the Pepe Twitter account was also

3338
03:09:04,240 --> 03:09:08,480
Speaker 6: connected to a time travel study, because the color streak

3339
03:09:08,560 --> 03:09:10,920
Speaker 6: banner photo was traced to a website on how to

3340
03:09:11,000 --> 03:09:13,880
Speaker 6: build a time machine, and this photo was used on

3341
03:09:14,000 --> 03:09:19,240
Speaker 6: the web page for the time machine study. So what's

3342
03:09:19,720 --> 03:09:23,560
Speaker 6: what's really going on here? First of all, this quote

3343
03:09:23,600 --> 03:09:27,080
Speaker 6: unquote time Machine website is actually a europe based project

3344
03:09:27,160 --> 03:09:31,760
Speaker 6: for quote three D digitalization of cultural heritage, scanning like

3345
03:09:32,200 --> 03:09:35,199
Speaker 6: artifacts and uploading them online as like three D models.

3346
03:09:35,720 --> 03:09:39,560
Speaker 6: That's their quote unquote time Machine is preserving cultural heritage. Yes,

3347
03:09:39,640 --> 03:09:43,960
Speaker 6: an archive, and actually this color streak image has actually

3348
03:09:43,959 --> 03:09:45,680
Speaker 6: been floating around the Internet for a long time. I

3349
03:09:45,920 --> 03:09:49,040
Speaker 6: found versions of it since at least twenty eighteen. There

3350
03:09:49,080 --> 03:09:52,440
Speaker 6: are hundreds of people named Cole Allen in the US

3351
03:09:52,600 --> 03:09:56,040
Speaker 6: on data broker sites. Right now, the first archive of

3352
03:09:56,200 --> 03:10:00,480
Speaker 6: this pepe Twitter account whose profile picture only mat Trump's

3353
03:10:00,480 --> 03:10:03,800
Speaker 6: because it's a tuxedo, one of the most common outfits

3354
03:10:04,000 --> 03:10:05,640
Speaker 6: from men at events like this.

3355
03:10:05,879 --> 03:10:07,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, it is the same outfit that Trump was

3356
03:10:07,959 --> 03:10:10,280
Speaker 1: wearing at the dinner. It's also the same outfit Trump

3357
03:10:10,360 --> 03:10:12,480
Speaker 1: is worn at every dinner, because it's what you wear

3358
03:10:12,520 --> 03:10:14,680
Speaker 1: at dinners if you're the president at TEXIEDA.

3359
03:10:16,520 --> 03:10:20,000
Speaker 6: But the first archive of this post is from after

3360
03:10:20,120 --> 03:10:22,080
Speaker 6: the shooting, so we don't know what this account looked

3361
03:10:22,120 --> 03:10:25,040
Speaker 6: like prior to the shooting. Now, this account could have

3362
03:10:25,520 --> 03:10:28,600
Speaker 6: tweeted tons of random names and then deleted all the

3363
03:10:28,680 --> 03:10:32,280
Speaker 6: other posts to pull a stunt like this or people

3364
03:10:32,440 --> 03:10:34,840
Speaker 6: at Twitter, like you know, x everything up. The people

3365
03:10:34,840 --> 03:10:37,680
Speaker 6: who work there could have backdated the account and the

3366
03:10:37,760 --> 03:10:41,560
Speaker 6: post to boost engagement on the platform. Now, those aren't

3367
03:10:41,560 --> 03:10:44,920
Speaker 6: any more likely than just a simple coincidence, But there

3368
03:10:45,000 --> 03:10:49,400
Speaker 6: are other explanations other than gesturing vaguely towards a pre

3369
03:10:49,600 --> 03:10:54,280
Speaker 6: planned psyop spreading images of this. A Twitter account isn't

3370
03:10:54,360 --> 03:10:58,400
Speaker 6: necessarily putting forward a specific conspiracy theory. He just gets

3371
03:10:58,480 --> 03:11:02,240
Speaker 6: used as a data point other unconnected data points to

3372
03:11:02,360 --> 03:11:07,279
Speaker 6: sew public mistrust and undermine reality inferring meaning from odd coincidences.

3373
03:11:07,400 --> 03:11:07,800
Speaker 2: Right this is?

3374
03:11:07,879 --> 03:11:10,720
Speaker 6: This is seeing patterns that aren't there and literally in

3375
03:11:10,840 --> 03:11:14,080
Speaker 6: the case of seeing the Butler photo in a splash

3376
03:11:14,160 --> 03:11:17,480
Speaker 6: of colors, and again like why would quote unquote they

3377
03:11:18,400 --> 03:11:19,600
Speaker 6: drop hints beforehand?

3378
03:11:19,760 --> 03:11:20,040
Speaker 2: Right is?

3379
03:11:20,120 --> 03:11:24,240
Speaker 6: This is this predictive programming. But predictive programming isn't really

3380
03:11:24,360 --> 03:11:27,920
Speaker 6: necessary to get the public to accept an event like

3381
03:11:27,959 --> 03:11:32,080
Speaker 6: an attempted assassination. In fact, that would only sew suspicion.

3382
03:11:32,800 --> 03:11:35,520
Speaker 6: Dropping these little hints just so suspicion for an event

3383
03:11:35,560 --> 03:11:37,360
Speaker 6: like this, It doesn't actually make it more acceptable. Right

3384
03:11:37,400 --> 03:11:41,360
Speaker 6: The whole idea of predictive programming is sowing seeds to

3385
03:11:41,520 --> 03:11:44,880
Speaker 6: get the public to accept an otherwise unacceptable thing, and

3386
03:11:45,080 --> 03:11:49,840
Speaker 6: that's not necessary for a presidential assassination. Yeah, Now there

3387
03:11:49,879 --> 03:11:52,720
Speaker 6: are some other things that propped up in this conspiratorial

3388
03:11:53,200 --> 03:11:56,720
Speaker 6: uh shenanigans. In the wake of the shooting, a Fox

3389
03:11:56,800 --> 03:12:00,520
Speaker 6: News reporter was calling in to report herk's varience at

3390
03:12:00,520 --> 03:12:04,640
Speaker 6: the dinner and suddenly cut out when she started talking

3391
03:12:04,680 --> 03:12:07,880
Speaker 6: about something that Carolyn Levitt's husband said to her.

3392
03:12:08,600 --> 03:12:10,680
Speaker 5: He kind of leaned over and said, you know, I

3393
03:12:10,720 --> 03:12:11,440
Speaker 5: watched your on TV.

3394
03:12:11,480 --> 03:12:13,720
Speaker 4: DoD a great job. You need to be very safe.

3395
03:12:14,040 --> 03:12:16,240
Speaker 4: And he was just very serious when he said that

3396
03:12:16,280 --> 03:12:18,039
Speaker 4: to me, and he kind of looked around the room

3397
03:12:18,080 --> 03:12:19,800
Speaker 4: and he said, you know, there are.

3398
03:12:19,760 --> 03:12:30,040
Speaker 8: Some sounds like we lost Ayisha's phone there.

3399
03:12:30,760 --> 03:12:36,320
Speaker 6: Well, well, well what so her audio actually cuts out

3400
03:12:36,360 --> 03:12:40,959
Speaker 6: at different points during this televised call. The anchor said

3401
03:12:41,000 --> 03:12:43,080
Speaker 6: that she was having sell service issues, and later on

3402
03:12:43,480 --> 03:12:46,000
Speaker 6: x this reporter posted that she was about to say

3403
03:12:46,440 --> 03:12:49,480
Speaker 6: that Carolyn Levitt's husband was quote telling me to be

3404
03:12:49,600 --> 03:12:53,720
Speaker 6: careful with my own safety because the world is crazy unquote.

3405
03:12:54,400 --> 03:12:57,040
Speaker 6: But it does make for a funny moment, a funny

3406
03:12:57,440 --> 03:12:58,000
Speaker 6: of television.

3407
03:12:58,280 --> 03:12:59,039
Speaker 2: That's a good moment.

3408
03:12:59,160 --> 03:13:01,280
Speaker 1: That's an incredible time for your call to cut out,

3409
03:13:01,760 --> 03:13:03,160
Speaker 1: Like just awesome stuff.

3410
03:13:03,320 --> 03:13:03,520
Speaker 3: Yeah.

3411
03:13:04,600 --> 03:13:10,000
Speaker 6: There's other other viral posts spreading video of the military

3412
03:13:10,160 --> 03:13:13,280
Speaker 6: storming past the red carpet or people in military fatigue

3413
03:13:13,320 --> 03:13:16,800
Speaker 6: storming past the red carpet after the shooting, with one

3414
03:13:16,920 --> 03:13:20,560
Speaker 6: person writing quote, law enforcement doesn't act like this. Neither

3415
03:13:20,640 --> 03:13:23,200
Speaker 6: does the military. This is a staged event with a

3416
03:13:23,240 --> 03:13:27,280
Speaker 6: shitty script and pre positioned cameras. Unquote. The cameras are

3417
03:13:27,320 --> 03:13:32,000
Speaker 6: there because they're they're to film the red carpet, the physition.

3418
03:13:32,080 --> 03:13:35,160
Speaker 2: Yes, because this is an organization where all the press gathered.

3419
03:13:35,480 --> 03:13:38,400
Speaker 6: This is a press event. That's why there's pre positioned cameras.

3420
03:13:38,959 --> 03:13:41,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's how you do you know the White

3421
03:13:41,520 --> 03:13:42,640
Speaker 1: House correspondence dinner.

3422
03:13:43,400 --> 03:13:45,400
Speaker 2: Yeah. Oh so you're going to see some types of

3423
03:13:45,480 --> 03:13:48,760
Speaker 2: cops you have never previously seen when someone tries to

3424
03:13:48,760 --> 03:13:50,760
Speaker 2: assassinate the president. Oh yeah, there are a whole lot

3425
03:13:50,760 --> 03:13:52,800
Speaker 2: of people whose job it is to stop that happening,

3426
03:13:53,720 --> 03:13:57,160
Speaker 2: Lots of them on necessarily uniformed offices who you see

3427
03:13:57,200 --> 03:13:58,880
Speaker 2: every day in the Secret Service. Yeah.

3428
03:13:59,240 --> 03:14:01,800
Speaker 6: Other people also thought it was odd that Trump has

3429
03:14:01,840 --> 03:14:06,520
Speaker 6: skipped every correspondent to dinner across his two terms. Except

3430
03:14:06,680 --> 03:14:09,080
Speaker 6: for this one, and then all of a sudden there's

3431
03:14:09,120 --> 03:14:11,320
Speaker 6: a shooter in the lobby. How did the shooter know

3432
03:14:11,720 --> 03:14:14,720
Speaker 6: that Trump would go to this one? Because the shooter

3433
03:14:14,879 --> 03:14:17,480
Speaker 6: planned planned this since early April. How would the shooter

3434
03:14:17,600 --> 03:14:21,680
Speaker 6: know this? Well, it's actually quite simple, because Trump announced

3435
03:14:21,720 --> 03:14:25,279
Speaker 6: he was attending this dinner in early March, and according

3436
03:14:25,280 --> 03:14:28,560
Speaker 6: to Core documents, Cole Allen started searching for information about

3437
03:14:28,600 --> 03:14:32,560
Speaker 6: this dinner in early April. A month later, before then

3438
03:14:32,600 --> 03:14:36,520
Speaker 6: booking two nights at the Washington Hilton, Trump already announced

3439
03:14:36,520 --> 03:14:39,040
Speaker 6: that he was going to be attending the dinner. The

3440
03:14:39,360 --> 03:14:44,360
Speaker 6: oddest aspect of the conspiracism post this event is that

3441
03:14:45,080 --> 03:14:50,240
Speaker 6: Trump needed to stage this not for any national security

3442
03:14:50,280 --> 03:14:53,400
Speaker 6: reasons or to seize more power, but to construct the

3443
03:14:53,520 --> 03:14:56,440
Speaker 6: White House ballroom, which has been the main thing that

3444
03:14:56,520 --> 03:14:58,680
Speaker 6: people on the right have been talking about after the shooting.

3445
03:14:58,920 --> 03:15:00,480
Speaker 6: The people on the right have not been using this

3446
03:15:00,720 --> 03:15:04,680
Speaker 6: shooting to go after liberal terrorists, but have been talking

3447
03:15:04,800 --> 03:15:09,040
Speaker 6: NonStop about how this security breach demonstrates the need to

3448
03:15:09,120 --> 03:15:12,320
Speaker 6: construct Trump's massive ballroom, and that's the main thing they're

3449
03:15:12,360 --> 03:15:16,000
Speaker 6: talking about. It's so funny the idea that they would

3450
03:15:16,040 --> 03:15:17,600
Speaker 6: stage that the deep state it's going to stage a

3451
03:15:17,680 --> 03:15:21,160
Speaker 6: false flag just to push for the ballroom.

3452
03:15:21,600 --> 03:15:25,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, is to me, frankly very funny. Yeah.

3453
03:15:25,360 --> 03:15:27,879
Speaker 1: We don't get an enabling Act in our new fascists.

3454
03:15:27,920 --> 03:15:31,200
Speaker 1: We just get a fucking ballroom. Yeah yeah, right, Like okay,

3455
03:15:32,440 --> 03:15:34,840
Speaker 1: I mean I guess I prefer this, Yeah.

3456
03:15:35,040 --> 03:15:39,920
Speaker 6: The reichstick fire to construct a nice dance floor.

3457
03:15:40,200 --> 03:15:43,520
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, just yeah, I mean a lot of this

3458
03:15:43,760 --> 03:15:48,520
Speaker 2: was like centered on the safety and security exemption which

3459
03:15:48,680 --> 03:15:52,000
Speaker 2: was provided in the injunction against the building of the

3460
03:15:52,080 --> 03:15:52,760
Speaker 2: new ballroom.

3461
03:15:53,160 --> 03:15:53,280
Speaker 5: Right.

3462
03:15:53,640 --> 03:15:56,080
Speaker 2: The issue here is that the Trump administration already filed

3463
03:15:56,120 --> 03:15:58,960
Speaker 2: on the third of April a claim that the entire

3464
03:15:59,080 --> 03:16:02,279
Speaker 2: building was a contiguous hole. They couldn't do the security

3465
03:16:02,360 --> 03:16:07,080
Speaker 2: part without doing the fantasy dance floor part, right, Like, yes,

3466
03:16:07,560 --> 03:16:10,959
Speaker 2: Trump has also truced about this. Previous to this event,

3467
03:16:11,040 --> 03:16:13,879
Speaker 2: this wouldn't have really added anything. Yeah, they did try

3468
03:16:14,120 --> 03:16:17,840
Speaker 2: and get the National Trust for Historical Preservation to withdraw

3469
03:16:18,040 --> 03:16:21,800
Speaker 2: their court case, which they didn't against. Subsequently to this,

3470
03:16:23,040 --> 03:16:25,000
Speaker 2: the events of the White House correspond.

3471
03:16:25,600 --> 03:16:27,520
Speaker 6: So yeah, that's most of what I have on the

3472
03:16:27,600 --> 03:16:30,640
Speaker 6: conspiracy stuff. There's certainly more, but that's.

3473
03:16:30,520 --> 03:16:31,160
Speaker 2: Oh dose more.

3474
03:16:31,320 --> 03:16:33,440
Speaker 6: Yeah, We're going to leave it there's always going to

3475
03:16:33,520 --> 03:16:36,120
Speaker 6: be more right, Like, that's that's the way how it is.

3476
03:16:36,440 --> 03:16:39,480
Speaker 6: We don't have good data on like the widespread belief

3477
03:16:39,600 --> 03:16:41,320
Speaker 6: of this theory. There was there was a poll that

3478
03:16:41,440 --> 03:16:45,520
Speaker 6: circulated that said like something like forty seven percent of

3479
03:16:45,680 --> 03:16:51,280
Speaker 6: Democrats thought the attempted assassination was staged. But this poll,

3480
03:16:51,320 --> 03:16:53,360
Speaker 6: which is from the Manhattan Institute, so take that with

3481
03:16:53,440 --> 03:16:57,120
Speaker 6: a grain of fascism. This poll is actually pulling the

3482
03:16:57,240 --> 03:17:01,240
Speaker 6: Butler shooting, not this recent one, and people did not

3483
03:17:01,959 --> 03:17:05,080
Speaker 6: acknowledge that when they were spreading this poll around. So

3484
03:17:05,959 --> 03:17:07,600
Speaker 6: we don't know how many people actually believe that this

3485
03:17:07,720 --> 03:17:12,880
Speaker 6: shooting was staged, but you can certainly see a lot

3486
03:17:12,920 --> 03:17:15,440
Speaker 6: of people asserting as such on the internet.

3487
03:17:16,320 --> 03:17:16,760
Speaker 4: Mm hmm.

3488
03:17:18,160 --> 03:17:20,840
Speaker 2: Shall we move on to a couple of other topics

3489
03:17:21,240 --> 03:17:21,880
Speaker 2: we need to cover.

3490
03:17:22,680 --> 03:17:25,520
Speaker 6: Yes, this will be a super super sized episode, but

3491
03:17:26,920 --> 03:17:27,560
Speaker 6: it is what it is.

3492
03:17:27,760 --> 03:17:30,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's go talking to people talking about thinks of

3493
03:17:30,520 --> 03:17:32,800
Speaker 2: the internet. I think some people got this one get

3494
03:17:32,840 --> 03:17:37,480
Speaker 2: a little carried away. As three zero decision of a

3495
03:17:37,640 --> 03:17:42,640
Speaker 2: panel of Second Circuit Court judges has rejected ICE's mandatory

3496
03:17:42,720 --> 03:17:46,480
Speaker 2: detention of people seeking to deport with a few exceptions.

3497
03:17:47,120 --> 03:17:50,520
Speaker 2: The opinion was written by Judge Bianco, who is a

3498
03:17:50,560 --> 03:17:54,880
Speaker 2: Trump appointee, stated that quote petitioner entered the United States

3499
03:17:54,920 --> 03:17:56,960
Speaker 2: and lawfully in two thousand and four or two thousand

3500
03:17:57,000 --> 03:17:59,920
Speaker 2: and five and has resided here ever since. He's there

3501
03:18:00,120 --> 03:18:02,720
Speaker 2: for deemed to be an applicant for admission by section

3502
03:18:02,840 --> 03:18:05,320
Speaker 2: one two to five A, that he is not quote

3503
03:18:05,440 --> 03:18:08,160
Speaker 2: seeking admission because he is not requesting law ful entry

3504
03:18:08,160 --> 03:18:11,680
Speaker 2: into the United States after inspection authorization. The government's attempt

3505
03:18:11,720 --> 03:18:16,240
Speaker 2: to muddy these textually clear waters defies the statute's context, structure, history,

3506
03:18:16,320 --> 03:18:19,640
Speaker 2: and purpose, contradicts of Supreme Court dicta in Jennings and

3507
03:18:19,720 --> 03:18:23,320
Speaker 2: long standing executive branch practice, and its interpretation of statute

3508
03:18:23,440 --> 03:18:27,200
Speaker 2: raisive serious constitutional questions that should be avoided even if

3509
03:18:27,200 --> 03:18:33,160
Speaker 2: the statutory language were ambiguous. The statute in question here

3510
03:18:33,800 --> 03:18:37,560
Speaker 2: is the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of

3511
03:18:37,680 --> 03:18:42,119
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety six, and specifically the fact that it has

3512
03:18:42,200 --> 03:18:45,520
Speaker 2: a mandatory detainer for people quote unquote seeking admission to

3513
03:18:45,640 --> 03:18:51,560
Speaker 2: the USA. Now, this ruling puts the Second Circuit in

3514
03:18:51,760 --> 03:18:54,879
Speaker 2: agreement with over three hundred and seventy judges across the nation,

3515
03:18:55,000 --> 03:18:57,720
Speaker 2: but notably odds with the Fifth and Eighth circuit.

3516
03:18:57,879 --> 03:18:58,000
Speaker 5: Right.

3517
03:18:58,680 --> 03:19:02,640
Speaker 2: Judge Bianco, in a a really incredibly New York and

3518
03:19:02,640 --> 03:19:06,520
Speaker 2: analogy here for seeking admission wrote, if someone sneaks into

3519
03:19:06,640 --> 03:19:09,160
Speaker 2: Yankee Stadium at the start of the game with no

3520
03:19:09,280 --> 03:19:12,040
Speaker 2: ticket for admission and no intention of ever paying, and

3521
03:19:12,160 --> 03:19:14,320
Speaker 2: he is later found by security in a seat in

3522
03:19:14,360 --> 03:19:16,840
Speaker 2: the seventh inning, no one would consider that to be

3523
03:19:16,920 --> 03:19:20,280
Speaker 2: seeking admission to the game. So hopefully that's that they

3524
03:19:20,320 --> 03:19:23,240
Speaker 2: explained to people that the argument that the government is

3525
03:19:23,280 --> 03:19:25,800
Speaker 2: making here is that someone who has been in the

3526
03:19:25,840 --> 03:19:29,400
Speaker 2: country for a long period of time is still seeking admission.

3527
03:19:29,800 --> 03:19:29,920
Speaker 5: Right.

3528
03:19:30,640 --> 03:19:34,720
Speaker 2: The Trump administrations place itself odds with other administrations. Right,

3529
03:19:34,760 --> 03:19:37,720
Speaker 2: this has been lost into nineteen ninety six, as Bianco wrote,

3530
03:19:38,080 --> 03:19:41,200
Speaker 2: quote for five presidential administrations have nearly three decades. It

3531
03:19:41,280 --> 03:19:45,320
Speaker 2: did consistently release detainees on bond, whom the government now

3532
03:19:45,520 --> 03:19:48,000
Speaker 2: argues are covered by Section one two two five B

3533
03:19:48,200 --> 03:19:51,360
Speaker 2: two A. Even in President Trump's first term and the

3534
03:19:51,520 --> 03:19:53,960
Speaker 2: first few months of his second, the agency adhered to

3535
03:19:54,040 --> 03:19:57,039
Speaker 2: the decades old understanding and the relative scopes of sections

3536
03:19:57,080 --> 03:19:59,640
Speaker 2: one two two five and one two two six. The

3537
03:20:00,080 --> 03:20:03,080
Speaker 2: these circumstances, the fact that no president has ever found

3538
03:20:03,160 --> 03:20:05,680
Speaker 2: such power in the statute is strong evidence that it

3539
03:20:05,840 --> 03:20:09,800
Speaker 2: does not exist. That pretty much explains itself, right. What

3540
03:20:09,920 --> 03:20:12,360
Speaker 2: I have not been able to work out is whether

3541
03:20:12,440 --> 03:20:15,360
Speaker 2: this pertains to people who are detained as in who

3542
03:20:15,360 --> 03:20:18,280
Speaker 2: are arrested in the second circuit, or people who are

3543
03:20:18,400 --> 03:20:21,560
Speaker 2: held in the second circuit or both. My guess would

3544
03:20:21,600 --> 03:20:24,840
Speaker 2: be both, because it is the law in the second circuit, right,

3545
03:20:24,920 --> 03:20:28,560
Speaker 2: so it applies in the second circuit. Certainly, most attention

3546
03:20:28,640 --> 03:20:30,360
Speaker 2: facilities are not in the second circuit. A lot of

3547
03:20:30,400 --> 03:20:32,280
Speaker 2: them are in the Fifth, which has come down the

3548
03:20:32,280 --> 03:20:35,280
Speaker 2: opposite way on this. This is why the Supreme Court exists, right,

3549
03:20:35,440 --> 03:20:39,800
Speaker 2: big disagreement between these several circuit courts here. Moving on

3550
03:20:40,440 --> 03:20:43,520
Speaker 2: to talk about the border wall. Before leaving office, Secretary

3551
03:20:43,680 --> 03:20:47,480
Speaker 2: no massigned several waivers for border war construction. This was

3552
03:20:47,520 --> 03:20:50,920
Speaker 2: not in the week before she left office, but this year.

3553
03:20:52,160 --> 03:20:55,680
Speaker 2: One of them waived twenty eight laws in the Big

3554
03:20:55,879 --> 03:20:59,840
Speaker 2: Bend area of Texas. The waiver included a hundred and

3555
03:21:00,000 --> 03:21:02,840
Speaker 2: empty five miles of the riverfront of the Rio Grande,

3556
03:21:03,200 --> 03:21:06,119
Speaker 2: including parts of the State Park, National Park, and federally

3557
03:21:06,200 --> 03:21:09,800
Speaker 2: protected river. These some of these areas are very popular

3558
03:21:09,920 --> 03:21:13,160
Speaker 2: for outdoor recreation. These waivers are now being challenged in

3559
03:21:13,240 --> 03:21:16,120
Speaker 2: court by the Center for Biological Diversity. They're atteditus on.

3560
03:21:16,240 --> 03:21:18,480
Speaker 2: You'll see them in a lot of border legal cases.

3561
03:21:19,600 --> 03:21:23,440
Speaker 2: The Friends of Roridosa Church and a telling were river

3562
03:21:23,560 --> 03:21:27,200
Speaker 2: guide named Billy Miller. It's an interesting coalition, right that

3563
03:21:27,280 --> 03:21:30,400
Speaker 2: we don't often see, like a church group has the

3564
03:21:30,560 --> 03:21:34,400
Speaker 2: sort of approach to this that it would destroy historical

3565
03:21:34,560 --> 03:21:38,280
Speaker 2: and cultural heritage to build the wall there. Obviously, the

3566
03:21:38,400 --> 03:21:41,240
Speaker 2: river guy, Billy Miller, Mister Miller has the claim that

3567
03:21:41,320 --> 03:21:44,040
Speaker 2: it would be disruptive to have business and to people's

3568
03:21:44,160 --> 03:21:48,760
Speaker 2: enjoyment of nature on the river. Currently, what they are

3569
03:21:48,800 --> 03:21:53,560
Speaker 2: doing is focusing on Chispa Road. That's it's Neil like Valentine,

3570
03:21:53,600 --> 03:21:56,960
Speaker 2: Texas northwestern MafA where are carrying out road improvements that

3571
03:21:57,040 --> 03:22:00,000
Speaker 2: they did not notify county officials about, which is obvious

3572
03:22:00,040 --> 03:22:02,640
Speaker 2: the course of disruption. I've actually ridden my bike out

3573
03:22:02,680 --> 03:22:04,960
Speaker 2: there a fair bit, did some work making a film

3574
03:22:05,000 --> 03:22:07,240
Speaker 2: out there a few years ago. It's a really beautiful

3575
03:22:07,240 --> 03:22:08,959
Speaker 2: part of the country. I'm sure a lot of people

3576
03:22:08,959 --> 03:22:11,680
Speaker 2: will be familiar with Marfa, which is nearby. Oh, it's

3577
03:22:11,680 --> 03:22:15,520
Speaker 2: a great city, great Muffa's great. I love that area Texas.

3578
03:22:15,760 --> 03:22:18,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, I watched it all burned down one beautiful, beautiful

3579
03:22:18,920 --> 03:22:22,360
Speaker 1: afternoon when the horrible fire started. Yeah, it was wild, Yeah,

3580
03:22:22,360 --> 03:22:23,160
Speaker 1: I bet geez.

3581
03:22:24,000 --> 03:22:28,120
Speaker 2: Luckily, Marfa has recovered a great place to visit. You

3582
03:22:28,240 --> 03:22:32,360
Speaker 2: can go and see the Prata Store, which people now

3583
03:22:32,520 --> 03:22:36,440
Speaker 2: think is AI generated, which is great. Our reality is cool.

3584
03:22:37,000 --> 03:22:40,600
Speaker 1: You can go see the Jud Foundations or the Chinnati Foundation,

3585
03:22:40,760 --> 03:22:42,600
Speaker 1: the Donald jud Museum. You know, a lot of other

3586
03:22:42,640 --> 03:22:47,000
Speaker 1: good stuff out in Marfa. Pretty good geez sandwich restaurant.

3587
03:22:47,640 --> 03:22:51,720
Speaker 2: Pretty fancy glamping set up there as well. Ye. So

3588
03:22:52,280 --> 03:22:55,400
Speaker 2: I checked out the CBP smart All Interactive map, which

3589
03:22:55,520 --> 03:22:58,400
Speaker 2: sometimes like they don't always have to give notice when

3590
03:22:58,400 --> 03:23:01,520
Speaker 2: they're changing their plans, or sometimes find out via the

3591
03:23:01,600 --> 03:23:06,240
Speaker 2: smart Wall interactive map. And right now it shows vehicle

3592
03:23:06,360 --> 03:23:10,520
Speaker 2: barriers and patrol road planned inside the National Park. Right

3593
03:23:10,720 --> 03:23:13,600
Speaker 2: so this will cause damage far far beyond the riverfront.

3594
03:23:14,280 --> 03:23:17,080
Speaker 2: Evidently to build barriers at the riverfront, they have to

3595
03:23:17,120 --> 03:23:20,080
Speaker 2: build roads to get to riverfront, which will also spread

3596
03:23:20,120 --> 03:23:23,960
Speaker 2: this damage over an area that like, especially in Texas.

3597
03:23:24,040 --> 03:23:26,480
Speaker 2: Texas is not a state which is abundant with public

3598
03:23:26,560 --> 03:23:29,840
Speaker 2: land now. It is not like those states further west

3599
03:23:29,959 --> 03:23:32,240
Speaker 2: in that regard. And I know this is an area

3600
03:23:32,280 --> 03:23:34,440
Speaker 2: which is very special to a great deal of people.

3601
03:23:35,080 --> 03:23:36,880
Speaker 2: I'm really interested in rating more about this, so like

3602
03:23:37,000 --> 03:23:39,879
Speaker 2: especially people in the outdoor industry or folks in that region,

3603
03:23:39,920 --> 03:23:42,400
Speaker 2: I'd love to hear from you. You can do cal

3604
03:23:42,480 --> 03:23:45,240
Speaker 2: Zone tips at proton dot me if you want to

3605
03:23:45,280 --> 03:23:47,520
Speaker 2: talk about that. Do you want to do that?

3606
03:23:48,360 --> 03:23:50,959
Speaker 6: We reported, We reported the news.

3607
03:23:51,400 --> 03:23:54,600
Speaker 2: All of it. Yeah again. Call Zone Tips at proton

3608
03:23:54,680 --> 03:23:58,600
Speaker 2: dot me for story tips. For your marketing emails, you

3609
03:23:58,600 --> 03:24:01,680
Speaker 2: can just go ahead and flush those we reported the news.

3610
03:24:07,760 --> 03:24:10,880
Speaker 1: Hey, We'll be back Monday with more episodes every week

3611
03:24:11,000 --> 03:24:12,879
Speaker 1: from now until the heat death of the universe.

3612
03:24:13,640 --> 03:24:16,120
Speaker 9: It could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media.

3613
03:24:16,320 --> 03:24:19,360
Speaker 9: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

3614
03:24:19,480 --> 03:24:23,000
Speaker 9: Coolzonemedia dot com for check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

3615
03:24:23,120 --> 03:24:26,640
Speaker 9: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can

3616
03:24:26,720 --> 03:24:29,039
Speaker 9: now find sources where it could Happen here listed directly

3617
03:24:29,080 --> 03:24:31,320
Speaker 9: in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.