1 00:00:04,240 --> 00:00:10,680 Speaker 1: Get in touch with technology with tex Stuff from stuff Com. 2 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:15,040 Speaker 1: Hey there, everyone, welcome to tech Stuff. I'm Jonathan Strickland, 3 00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:18,720 Speaker 1: and joining me once again is Mr Ben Bolan of 4 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:20,760 Speaker 1: Stuff they Don't Want You to Know, as well as 5 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:23,440 Speaker 1: a myriad of other projects. Here at how Stuff Works 6 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:27,080 Speaker 1: then welcome back. Hey, thanks for having me. I'm excited 7 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:31,480 Speaker 1: to reach the last installment of this trilogy, but I'm 8 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:34,199 Speaker 1: a little bit sad too. Yeah. Yeah, you know, it's 9 00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 1: always that moment of elation because you have the the 10 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:42,159 Speaker 1: the conclusion, right. But it's okay. I'm here to tell 11 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:44,440 Speaker 1: you right now that just like Return of the King 12 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:46,240 Speaker 1: and Laura the Rings, there are going to be nine 13 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 1: separate endings to this podcast. So so the farewells will 14 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:54,280 Speaker 1: not be you know, sudden, It'll be nice and drawn 15 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:57,160 Speaker 1: out over a painful length of time. We are, in 16 00:00:57,320 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 1: fact going to be concluding our trilogy. You have episodes 17 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:03,160 Speaker 1: about Area fifty one in parts one and two if 18 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:05,720 Speaker 1: you haven't listened to them already. We really went over 19 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:08,800 Speaker 1: the history of the facility and what actually goes on 20 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:13,160 Speaker 1: there and covered everything from the reason why it was 21 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:17,960 Speaker 1: built in the first place, to the various spy planes 22 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:22,319 Speaker 1: and different technologies that were tested at that facility. This episode, 23 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 1: we're looking at the crazy yes, sir, we are looking 24 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 1: at all of the rumors, conspiracy theories and uh, let's 25 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:38,760 Speaker 1: just say unsupported anecdotes to be diplomatic. That's very diplomatic. Yeah, 26 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:41,880 Speaker 1: So so quick rundown, Just so that we're all on 27 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:45,440 Speaker 1: the same page. Area fifty one, also known as Groom Lake, 28 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 1: is a facility. It's out in Nevada. It's near the 29 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 1: what Well. It's near the Nevada Test site where a 30 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:55,919 Speaker 1: lot of nuclear tests were held, in fact, some during 31 00:01:56,000 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 1: the lifetime of Very fifty one. Uh. It is uh 32 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:04,200 Speaker 1: run by the CIA and the Air Force. Lockheed is 33 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:07,640 Speaker 1: essentially the main contractor that does work there. It's not 34 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:11,000 Speaker 1: the only one. We've seen some other aircraft from different 35 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:15,080 Speaker 1: companies tested at that facility as well. And the whole 36 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:18,080 Speaker 1: purpose of it is to be remote from everywhere else 37 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 1: so that secret tests of top secret spy technology can 38 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:26,799 Speaker 1: happen without anyone learning about it. Because, as we've said, 39 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:29,120 Speaker 1: if you want to be an effective spy, part of 40 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:31,440 Speaker 1: that means people can't be aware of the tools that 41 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 1: you have at your disposal, right. Yeah, And which, as 42 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:37,880 Speaker 1: we say, that's why it is in a goldilock zone 43 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:41,240 Speaker 1: for its for its purpose, right. Yeah. One of my 44 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:44,679 Speaker 1: favorite points that you made in the previous episode I 45 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 1: believe was the first installment, was that this was just 46 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 1: far enough away to be so inconvenient to get to 47 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:58,040 Speaker 1: that people people wouldn't try. Yeah, it was. It's a 48 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:02,799 Speaker 1: remote desert location on a dry lake bed, and so 49 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 1: it was close enough where you could get supplies from 50 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:08,560 Speaker 1: places like Las Vegas, which is less than a hundred 51 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 1: miles away, but far enough away where you know your 52 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:16,680 Speaker 1: your casual traveler is unlikely to stumble upon it, especially 53 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 1: once you start posting lots of warning signs with scary 54 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 1: wording on it warning people away. Now, the fact that 55 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:26,080 Speaker 1: it is remote, the fact that you do have these 56 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:29,640 Speaker 1: signs that warn people away, uh, the fact that you 57 00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:33,440 Speaker 1: have to bring people in to work at this facility, 58 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:35,480 Speaker 1: and most of them are commuting in maybe on a 59 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 1: weekly basis, which means you have to figure out how 60 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:41,080 Speaker 1: do you transport them from some place like Las Vegas 61 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 1: to the actual facility itself. All that means that you're 62 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 1: leaving just enough traces to really start to peak people's interests, right, Yeah, 63 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 1: it's tantalizing. Oh and uh, point of order for the 64 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 1: listeners out there, Jonathan, we should probably tell everybody check 65 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:03,080 Speaker 1: out the first two episodes of this before you listen 66 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:06,280 Speaker 1: to this one, right, It will make this make I 67 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:12,000 Speaker 1: can't say more sense, but you'll at least understand the references. Yeah. 68 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:15,280 Speaker 1: So so yeah, we've got just enough information for the 69 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:17,440 Speaker 1: typical person to say, I really want to know what's 70 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 1: happening there. And because of the security uh features that 71 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:25,479 Speaker 1: are in place, including roving bands, which we'll talk about 72 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:28,679 Speaker 1: a little bit later, of security personnel, uh, it means 73 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 1: that you end up having to fill in a lot 74 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:33,799 Speaker 1: of gaps. And when that happens, when people are given 75 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:37,200 Speaker 1: the leeway to try and fill in like that, there's 76 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 1: the big here. There be dragons on the map. That's 77 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:42,440 Speaker 1: where you get the dragons, right, You're like, well, I 78 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:45,040 Speaker 1: don't know what's out there. It's probably dangerous, so we're 79 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:48,120 Speaker 1: just gonna slap dragons on it and call it a day. Yeah, 80 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:52,840 Speaker 1: which is you know, at heart of valuable instinct to have, right, 81 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 1: it's it's caution. But what's happened here is that as 82 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 1: we're gonna see um, one thing with a grain of 83 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:06,120 Speaker 1: truth such as oh there's something I'm not allowed to 84 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 1: go see. Uh, became embellished and then exaggerated. And many 85 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:17,480 Speaker 1: times the people saying these things sincerely do believe this. 86 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:21,600 Speaker 1: They're not hucksters, right, Yeah, this this isn't necessarily someone 87 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:23,480 Speaker 1: who's trying to get a book deal or trying to 88 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 1: get on the talk show circuit. It maybe someone who 89 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:31,040 Speaker 1: has just enough information to leap to some conclusions that 90 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:34,160 Speaker 1: are not supportable. And also we should say there are 91 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:38,159 Speaker 1: times where people make guesses where either they latch onto 92 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:40,560 Speaker 1: something that is actually true or they've got part of 93 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:44,680 Speaker 1: the story. So just because something is a theory or 94 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:48,040 Speaker 1: a rumor or a conspiracy of some sort doesn't mean 95 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:51,920 Speaker 1: that there's nothing there. Right. So here's a great example, 96 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:55,159 Speaker 1: and it's one of the more grounded, no pun intended, 97 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 1: examples of the mythology around the Area one. There's the 98 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:04,640 Speaker 1: men that there is a giant subterranean network of UH 99 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 1: tunnels and facilities that are underneath the ground. So that way, 100 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 1: when you get that overhead view of Area fifty one, 101 00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 1: keep in mind Area fifty one is restricted airspace. It 102 00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:16,440 Speaker 1: goes all the way up into space, but there are 103 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:22,039 Speaker 1: satellites since the nineteen eighties that have taken multiple images 104 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:25,920 Speaker 1: of that area. So if you know that, in fact, 105 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:29,800 Speaker 1: you're going to be photographed from space there, that seems 106 00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:33,240 Speaker 1: logical that you would want to go underground, right, So 107 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 1: you can understand why people would say, oh, well, it 108 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:38,240 Speaker 1: makes sense. You you want to have that secrecy. You 109 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:40,680 Speaker 1: can no longer depend upon it above ground, so you 110 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:46,039 Speaker 1: have to go below. But this raises some logistical issues, right, Yeah, 111 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 1: how do you build an underground base and keep it quiet? 112 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:55,120 Speaker 1: Especially as we said in the history podcast, Uh, the 113 00:06:55,160 --> 00:07:00,080 Speaker 1: construction workers that were taken out there probably would have 114 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:03,039 Speaker 1: known something about it because they would have been the 115 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 1: ones digging. Yeah, I mean, and digging is a big deal. 116 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:09,560 Speaker 1: You're talking about subterranean network. That's a lot of earth 117 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:11,480 Speaker 1: that you have to move. And not only do you 118 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:13,440 Speaker 1: have to move it, you then have to figure out 119 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 1: what do you do with the earth you have taken. 120 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:18,720 Speaker 1: You know, when you when you create a whole, that 121 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:21,720 Speaker 1: dirt doesn't just magically disappear, right, you have to put 122 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:25,920 Speaker 1: it someplace. And so that's that's a logistical issue, and 123 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 1: it's an enormous type of endeavor to undertake. I mean, 124 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:35,280 Speaker 1: imagine having to create something a network of tunnels that 125 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:38,000 Speaker 1: is stable enough to support the weight of whatever is 126 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:40,600 Speaker 1: above it. Uh not to mention the idea of like 127 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:45,480 Speaker 1: level upon level of subterranean layer like Dr Evil style. 128 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 1: It's it's an enormous task and it would have required 129 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:53,840 Speaker 1: such a huge investment and manpower let alone. I don't 130 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:58,120 Speaker 1: even think about the cost financially, just the practical manpower 131 00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 1: necessary to make it. It's not likely. And there there 132 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:04,200 Speaker 1: as some rumors that go so far as to suggest 133 00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 1: that there are there's an entire underground network of tunnels 134 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:12,800 Speaker 1: that connect various bases together. Yeah, and really, when you 135 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:17,240 Speaker 1: think of the engineering challenge that represents and the construction 136 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 1: that is required, you realize that while it might be 137 00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 1: technologically possible for us to do it, it is not 138 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 1: really feasible to do it secretly where you have not 139 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:31,280 Speaker 1: left any trace at all in the whole process right now, 140 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:34,600 Speaker 1: And I think that's really good distinction, because it's not 141 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:39,720 Speaker 1: just plausible, but it is probable that there is some 142 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 1: sort of below the ground construction at Roswell in excuse me, 143 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:48,720 Speaker 1: at area fifty one in that when you build things 144 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:51,280 Speaker 1: there might be a basement, there might be a safe 145 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:56,280 Speaker 1: room something like that. But that is a far far 146 00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:59,440 Speaker 1: cry from uh, what what do we have here? What's 147 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 1: what's the big record? Jonathan fifty stories stories. Yeah, imagine 148 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:09,800 Speaker 1: a fifty story skyscraper, but underground. I mean, if you've 149 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:13,680 Speaker 1: ever seen a skyscraper being built, you know this is 150 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:16,760 Speaker 1: a process that takes some time. And we we hear 151 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:19,400 Speaker 1: at hell stuff works. We moved into this. You know, 152 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:22,440 Speaker 1: we're in an office that has recently, over the last 153 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 1: maybe five or six years, seen a lot of growth 154 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:28,040 Speaker 1: with the buildings around us, and so we've actually watched 155 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:31,640 Speaker 1: year over year as skyscrapers were being built, and it 156 00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:34,360 Speaker 1: takes a really long time. Uh. And I know people 157 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:36,800 Speaker 1: would say, yeah, but this is a top secret establishment, 158 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 1: you know, you they'd really pour a lot into it. 159 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:42,000 Speaker 1: If you've ever seen the government at work, the US 160 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:45,679 Speaker 1: government at work, speed is not one of the adjectives 161 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:50,079 Speaker 1: you would typically use. If the US everyone is a superhero, 162 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 1: it would probably not be the Flash. Everyone knows that 163 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:55,679 Speaker 1: maybe the Blob. Yeah, I was going to go safe 164 00:09:55,679 --> 00:09:58,520 Speaker 1: with Captain America. Well, all right, I was he I 165 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:00,199 Speaker 1: was merely going to all the villain. So I was 166 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 1: thinking of Blob or maybe the juggernat you know the Juggernauts. 167 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:07,360 Speaker 1: Cool though that's a different podcast. We We've got to 168 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:10,760 Speaker 1: get to one of the one of the biggest things here, 169 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:15,040 Speaker 1: the biggest conspiracies we hear about with Area fifty one. Well, 170 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 1: first off, spoiler alert, the real conspiracy is are their 171 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:23,600 Speaker 1: secret spy planes? Yes, yeah, and that's that's exactly what 172 00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 1: it's for. And that's crazy. Yeah, I mean that is 173 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:30,920 Speaker 1: the first off, the fact that that can even be possible. Right. 174 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:33,240 Speaker 1: We talked in the last couple of podcasts about some 175 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:36,960 Speaker 1: of the the aircraft that were under development there that 176 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:42,280 Speaker 1: remains secret a good twenty years after they had finished testing, 177 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:45,679 Speaker 1: and that's when they were unveiled. Uh. There was one 178 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 1: that that I think had a run from eighty three 179 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:51,160 Speaker 1: to eighty five something like that, and it wasn't it 180 00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 1: wasn't acknowledged by the government until ninety six, which was 181 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:58,439 Speaker 1: the first time anyone outside of that that program had 182 00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 1: seen it. Um and I think that was maybe Tacit Blue, 183 00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:04,040 Speaker 1: but it was one of those that just when you 184 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:06,480 Speaker 1: saw the aircraft, you thought, Wow, what a weird looking thing. 185 00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:09,800 Speaker 1: I can't believe that this remained secret. Granted they only 186 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 1: built two of them, and they were under strict rap 187 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:17,360 Speaker 1: over at one. It never got further out from from 188 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:20,079 Speaker 1: that area, like even the tests would be done at night, 189 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:24,320 Speaker 1: so it limited when the potential of even being spotted. 190 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:30,439 Speaker 1: But they were, the genuine articles of conspiracy were indeed 191 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:34,400 Speaker 1: spotted in the sky. And that brings us to, as 192 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:37,720 Speaker 1: we were saying, the biggest part of the area fifty 193 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:44,640 Speaker 1: are you talking us? Yeah, yeah, officially unidentified flying objects 194 00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:50,320 Speaker 1: UFOs more often than not, uh, they are attributed to 195 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:55,599 Speaker 1: being alien as an extraterrestrial in nature. Area fifty one 196 00:11:55,880 --> 00:12:00,960 Speaker 1: features heavily and tons of different alien stories, both both 197 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:03,360 Speaker 1: the kind that we see on the big screen, like 198 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:07,440 Speaker 1: Independence Day, the famous sequence where they go down to 199 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:11,280 Speaker 1: Area fifty one where they have uh, not just aliens, 200 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:15,120 Speaker 1: but they're they're hardware that has been studied for years, 201 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:18,240 Speaker 1: and you know, it's revealed that a lot of technology 202 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:21,040 Speaker 1: we depend upon today has been reverse engineered from this 203 00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:25,719 Speaker 1: alien technology. Still can't build a decent spaceship. Though now 204 00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:28,200 Speaker 1: we can't build a decent spaceship. However, we have figured 205 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:30,480 Speaker 1: out that you can introduce a computer virus as long 206 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:35,320 Speaker 1: as you have an Apple MacBook laptop, which to this 207 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:39,280 Speaker 1: day to this day, my friend, that's still that still 208 00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:43,960 Speaker 1: bothered me. Uh yeah, spoiler alert again, guys. But but yeah, so, 209 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:48,840 Speaker 1: so people people started seeing UFOs, and it is correct 210 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:52,320 Speaker 1: to call them that because I think there's one of 211 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:56,600 Speaker 1: the distinctions that we're about to make, right. A UFO 212 00:12:57,120 --> 00:13:00,880 Speaker 1: unidentified flying object is simply that. Yeah, it just means 213 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:04,160 Speaker 1: that you personally cannot identify what that object is. It 214 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:07,800 Speaker 1: doesn't mean it's unidentify a ball. It may very well 215 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:10,080 Speaker 1: be that there's a small group of people who know 216 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:12,640 Speaker 1: exactly what that object is, like the like the stealth 217 00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:15,800 Speaker 1: technology we were just talking about. Those stealth programs when 218 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:19,880 Speaker 1: they were under development were strict secrets and only a 219 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:23,960 Speaker 1: few people, relatively few people knew about them. Anyone outside 220 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:26,840 Speaker 1: that who would have seen one of these aircraft flying around, naturally, 221 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:29,520 Speaker 1: they would not be able to identify it. There was 222 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:33,000 Speaker 1: no correlative they could say, oh, this looked like a 223 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:37,079 Speaker 1: such and such. These things looked really crazy. So calling 224 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:40,840 Speaker 1: it a UFO is perfectly fine. You cannot identify it. 225 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 1: Calling making the leap from UFO to alien is a 226 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 1: little bit of a problem. So this brings us to 227 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:54,360 Speaker 1: probably the most famous alien UH incident in all of 228 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:59,240 Speaker 1: United States history, something that that factors into numerous I'd 229 00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:03,320 Speaker 1: say dozens, if not hundreds, of different conspiracy theories the 230 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:09,440 Speaker 1: Roswell incident. Now, Roswell is in New Mexico, which, for 231 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:11,439 Speaker 1: those of you who are not in the United States, 232 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:16,600 Speaker 1: is a completely separate state from Nevada. It's in a 233 00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:21,000 Speaker 1: completely different place. And you know, sometimes it's a pet 234 00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:25,480 Speaker 1: peeve of mine, Jonathan, is that people often conflate Area 235 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:29,240 Speaker 1: fifty one or Groom Lake and the incident in Roswell, Right, 236 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:33,680 Speaker 1: and so two things that these are incidence, separated both 237 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:38,920 Speaker 1: in space and time. Right, Roswell, New Mexico is hundreds 238 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:43,640 Speaker 1: of miles away from Area fifty one, like almost a 239 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:46,000 Speaker 1: thousand miles away. I think it's somewhere around eight hundred 240 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:50,560 Speaker 1: miles away and actually one thousand, four hundred sixteen kilometers 241 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:53,720 Speaker 1: according to Google Maps. Thank you Google Maps for letting 242 00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:56,120 Speaker 1: me know how far apart Roswell, New Mexico in Area 243 00:14:56,160 --> 00:15:00,240 Speaker 1: fifty one are. That's exactly it. So, by the wait, 244 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 1: don't don't rely upon Google Maps for turn by turn 245 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:05,680 Speaker 1: directions to Area fifty one. You know you'll just end 246 00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:07,880 Speaker 1: up in Las Vegas. Did you? Did you do it. 247 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:11,960 Speaker 1: I did it by by driving. All the walking would 248 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:14,520 Speaker 1: have been hilarious. Walking would have been like, at this 249 00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:16,440 Speaker 1: point people are going to ask you to turn around, 250 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:20,400 Speaker 1: uh so, or at this point you've probably died of dehydration. 251 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:23,240 Speaker 1: So the other thing I said was that their separated 252 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:26,920 Speaker 1: by time. The Roswell Incident happened on July second, nineteen 253 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 1: forties seven. So for those of you who listened to 254 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:33,080 Speaker 1: our first episode about Area fifty one, you remember that 255 00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 1: it was the mid nineteen fifties when the CIA settled 256 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:41,240 Speaker 1: on Groom Lake as the the future home of Area 257 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:44,160 Speaker 1: fifty one. It was like the nive was when construction began. 258 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:48,840 Speaker 1: So this is almost a decade apart when of these 259 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:51,800 Speaker 1: two events. So then you have the The actual story 260 00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:54,320 Speaker 1: of the Roswell incident is that some people in Roswell, 261 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 1: New Mexico, I saw some strange floating objects that they 262 00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 1: could not identify on identified flying objects. Sometimes they're referred 263 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:05,160 Speaker 1: to as being kind of disc shaped. But part of 264 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:07,760 Speaker 1: the problem is that we're so far distanced from the 265 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:11,520 Speaker 1: initial event that the story has not remained consistent through 266 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:14,040 Speaker 1: all the different retellings. Yeah, and I can speak to 267 00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:16,280 Speaker 1: a little bit of that because we have we have 268 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:22,240 Speaker 1: some copies of the newspaper articles that changed, and because 269 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:25,600 Speaker 1: they changed. Uh, there's a very interesting thing here. It's 270 00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:29,360 Speaker 1: the interpretation of that. Uh, people who believe that there 271 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:34,720 Speaker 1: was some sort of extraterrestrial incident. Somebody, somebody managed to 272 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:37,720 Speaker 1: drive a spacecraft well enough to get to Earth but 273 00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:41,760 Speaker 1: not well enough to stay above Earth, right, and then uh, 274 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 1: the news found out about it and they got shut down. 275 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:49,080 Speaker 1: They had to change their story. Or did they just 276 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:52,520 Speaker 1: correct the reporting when they had more information. That's a 277 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:56,280 Speaker 1: that's a good question, like did did some gentlemen wearing 278 00:16:56,360 --> 00:16:59,440 Speaker 1: black suits and sunglasses show up at the newspaper and 279 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:03,200 Speaker 1: say you need to you need to address this, I mean, Jonathan, 280 00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:06,920 Speaker 1: that's but if it happened, it wasn't because of aliens, 281 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:09,960 Speaker 1: That's right. So get moving on. We're talking about the crash. 282 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:13,080 Speaker 1: Just spotting these objects in the air wasn't the only 283 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:16,159 Speaker 1: thing that happened with Roswell incident. What specifically went on 284 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:18,520 Speaker 1: from there was that some people found debris on the 285 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:23,080 Speaker 1: ground and it was described as being shiny and metallic 286 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:25,600 Speaker 1: in nature. No one was really sure what it was 287 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:28,680 Speaker 1: actually made of at the time. UM, and so this, 288 00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 1: this incident started to become embellished upon over time. In fact, 289 00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:38,480 Speaker 1: there's some versions of the story where they didn't just 290 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:43,480 Speaker 1: find physical debris from some flying object, but also bodies. 291 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:46,879 Speaker 1: And this is where we get into the alien stuff, 292 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:50,320 Speaker 1: where supposedly there were these bodies of creatures that had 293 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:55,439 Speaker 1: unusual features and they were whisked away by the government. Uh. 294 00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:58,320 Speaker 1: And ultimately some people say that that's they went to 295 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:04,880 Speaker 1: Area fifty one. The purpose was not to study strange materials, 296 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:07,840 Speaker 1: although we did eventually get some Soviet aircraft at Area 297 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:10,639 Speaker 1: fifty one where they were tested like the bigs. But 298 00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:14,159 Speaker 1: it's not meant to be a scientific laboratory. That's not 299 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:15,960 Speaker 1: the purpose of Every fifty one. So it would make 300 00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:19,960 Speaker 1: no sense to send any kind of extraterrestrials there. It 301 00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:22,359 Speaker 1: also doesn't make sense to send extra terrestrial bodies to 302 00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:25,360 Speaker 1: a place that hasn't been built yet. That's a that's 303 00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:28,280 Speaker 1: a big one. That's a it's a bump in the road. Yeah, 304 00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:30,280 Speaker 1: it's a little bit of a little bit of a 305 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:36,159 Speaker 1: problem with the story. Now what the official story from 306 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:39,400 Speaker 1: the government was that the debris came from weather balloons 307 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:41,680 Speaker 1: and that there were no bodies in fact that we 308 00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:44,960 Speaker 1: should stay right now, there's no evidence at all that 309 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:47,520 Speaker 1: anyone ever came across a body. That was something that 310 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:50,879 Speaker 1: was added to this story over time. Yeah, sorry, guys, 311 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:58,080 Speaker 1: that autopsy on YouTube is most likely a hope it's 312 00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:02,960 Speaker 1: it's it's yeah, there there are special effects uh experts 313 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:06,680 Speaker 1: who have actually commented on it, and somewhat derisively. So 314 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:08,520 Speaker 1: we're like, like, they should have hired me. I could 315 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:10,880 Speaker 1: have done a much better job. But there is there 316 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:15,520 Speaker 1: There is no no hard evidence that there was even 317 00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:19,359 Speaker 1: from the debris they found when they were looking at it, 318 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:21,560 Speaker 1: because there really was debris, right, and they really did 319 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:25,520 Speaker 1: find it, but they didn't find enough to have built 320 00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:28,800 Speaker 1: an entire thing, Yeah, to carry a person, you know. 321 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:31,399 Speaker 1: Now this so the official story from the government was 322 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:36,040 Speaker 1: at these were weather balloons. They were meant specifically to uh, 323 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 1: to study the weather at high altitudes. Now, as it 324 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:41,760 Speaker 1: turns out, that's not the real story, but we will 325 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:45,560 Speaker 1: get to there in a second. So, uh, this was 326 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:47,800 Speaker 1: one of those things where people were saying, it doesn't 327 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 1: look like any weather balloon I've ever seen, which is true, 328 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:53,800 Speaker 1: it didn't. I've seen both balloons and the weather. This 329 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:57,720 Speaker 1: is neither of those two things. So moving on to 330 00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:02,160 Speaker 1: the the you know, kind of looking at the story 331 00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:04,680 Speaker 1: another way. One version of this that I was not 332 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:08,320 Speaker 1: aware of until a friend of the show, Nate Lenkson, 333 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:13,000 Speaker 1: he's the editor of Wired dot Code dot uk uh. 334 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:15,360 Speaker 1: He he turned me on to this. I had never 335 00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:19,760 Speaker 1: heard about this. It's a book written by Annie Jacobson 336 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:23,280 Speaker 1: called Area fifty one and Uncensored History of America's top 337 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:26,600 Speaker 1: secret military base. Now full disclosure, I have not read 338 00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:29,640 Speaker 1: this book yet. I read a synopsis of the book 339 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:31,560 Speaker 1: and a synopsis of the story we're about the cover, 340 00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:36,399 Speaker 1: So this may not actually be accurate to the book itself. 341 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:39,760 Speaker 1: I want to make that clear. I've also heard that 342 00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:42,480 Speaker 1: most of the book is pretty much what we covered 343 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:44,520 Speaker 1: in our first two episodes of the podcast, a very 344 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:47,720 Speaker 1: thorough description of the history of Very fifty one. But 345 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:52,840 Speaker 1: there's a section apparently devoted to the Roswell incident and 346 00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:56,920 Speaker 1: Every fifty one supposed involvement in that, in which the 347 00:20:57,000 --> 00:21:00,840 Speaker 1: story gets even weirder, I think than alien And this 348 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:05,120 Speaker 1: story involves Nazis and Communists, so you know, it's only 349 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:09,920 Speaker 1: missing Indiana Jones to make it really a Hollywood film. 350 00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:14,480 Speaker 1: So the story that she tells according to a source, 351 00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:16,960 Speaker 1: I don't know what her source was. I don't yeah, 352 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:19,560 Speaker 1: a source. I don't know if she names the source 353 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:22,720 Speaker 1: in the book the synopsis, I said, said anonymous. But 354 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:25,480 Speaker 1: again I haven't read the book. But according to the synopsis, 355 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:29,600 Speaker 1: the story is that a Nazi doctor, Joseph Mingola, actually 356 00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:35,960 Speaker 1: the s S officer who survived the World War two 357 00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:39,359 Speaker 1: and then and then eventually escaped to South America. That 358 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:44,000 Speaker 1: Mingola had worked on behalf of Joseph Stalin doing these 359 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:50,280 Speaker 1: horrific procedures on children, resulting in children around the age 360 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:54,600 Speaker 1: of twelve with abnormally shaped heads, large eyes that are 361 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:57,920 Speaker 1: of an odd shape, and that the whole idea was 362 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:00,840 Speaker 1: that they were going to pilot some simple full aircraft 363 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:05,000 Speaker 1: to fly around the United States and land and essentially 364 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:09,480 Speaker 1: star crap up yeah, scare people, Yeah, exactly, this idea 365 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:14,760 Speaker 1: that they would this idea that they would fake aliens, yeah, 366 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:18,440 Speaker 1: in order to create a panic, essentially doing a War 367 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:22,280 Speaker 1: of the World's type event. Uh, one step closer to 368 00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:25,160 Speaker 1: reality for War of the Worlds. For those who don't 369 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:28,359 Speaker 1: remember or don't know what this is, um, it was 370 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:33,760 Speaker 1: a an Orson Wells project, a radio program that was 371 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:36,240 Speaker 1: portrayed in such a way that people who tuned in 372 00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:40,480 Speaker 1: without knowing that it was actually a fictionalized radio program, 373 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:44,520 Speaker 1: began to think that there was actually, uh, an alien 374 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:48,720 Speaker 1: invasion happening. It was this sort of famous little blip 375 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:53,080 Speaker 1: on the radar of of people freaking out because they 376 00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:57,639 Speaker 1: weren't aware that, in fact, it was a fictional account, uh, 377 00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:01,600 Speaker 1: something that we still see today with things like Mermaids. 378 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:05,520 Speaker 1: At any rate, that's enough commentary on that. But yeah, 379 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:09,680 Speaker 1: the uh, the story that she relays is that Mingola 380 00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:13,879 Speaker 1: had done these these horror horrific procedures and that the 381 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:17,600 Speaker 1: bodies found at the Roswal incident, which remember, there was 382 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:20,800 Speaker 1: never any evidence that bodies were found were in fact 383 00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:24,960 Speaker 1: human children that then were whisked away. I think there's 384 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:28,560 Speaker 1: some big problems with this particular story. Problem Number one, 385 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:32,879 Speaker 1: Mingola was on the run from the Soviets. He did not, 386 00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:35,160 Speaker 1: I mean, the Soviets were the ones who were who 387 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:39,679 Speaker 1: were approaching when Hitler committed suicide, right, they'd rather than 388 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:44,240 Speaker 1: be captured by the Soviets. Um Hitler committed suicide, and 389 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:49,080 Speaker 1: Mingola was trying to escape with records that he had uh, 390 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:53,480 Speaker 1: he had created an at Auschwitz. Um, so he eventually 391 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:57,280 Speaker 1: escaped Germany. He did at one point go back into 392 00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:01,560 Speaker 1: Soviet occupied territory in order to trieve some of these documents, 393 00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:06,160 Speaker 1: but he evaded capture and eventually escaped to South America 394 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:11,080 Speaker 1: and then moved around quite a bit while on the run. Yeah. Yeah, 395 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:13,600 Speaker 1: he was being he was being pursued by agents both 396 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:18,480 Speaker 1: Soviet and American. And so it's unlikely that he would 397 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:23,240 Speaker 1: have collaborated with Joseph Stalin and certainly unlikely that he 398 00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:29,520 Speaker 1: would have been allowed to escape. Yeah. Um, so that 399 00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:33,560 Speaker 1: already is a problem. Secondly, it would be a real 400 00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:38,200 Speaker 1: problem the idea of people being fooled long enough to 401 00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:42,040 Speaker 1: not realize these were humans, right, Yeah. And then there's 402 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:44,800 Speaker 1: the other there's the other question. Why would they crash 403 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:48,639 Speaker 1: there and not in a more occupied place. Why not 404 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:51,640 Speaker 1: in New York City or something like that. Why, Um, 405 00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:54,840 Speaker 1: you know, they probably get spotted. But then also, and 406 00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:59,200 Speaker 1: this this is a cruel thing to say, but why 407 00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:04,119 Speaker 1: would you secifically need that one very evil man to 408 00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:07,840 Speaker 1: do that sort of operation? Right? Right exactly, It's not 409 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:10,040 Speaker 1: like if you're going to if you're going to do 410 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:17,160 Speaker 1: something so inhuman. Uh, is there I mean, narratively, it's 411 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:19,880 Speaker 1: a great story in the sense that there only one 412 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:22,879 Speaker 1: person is this twisted to pull this off? But in 413 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:25,679 Speaker 1: reality we know, unfortunately that's not the case. That if 414 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:29,080 Speaker 1: you really did have the the will to do something 415 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:32,960 Speaker 1: this horrible, you could probably do it without having to 416 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:36,720 Speaker 1: to go after the devil himself, right. I mean, the 417 00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:41,400 Speaker 1: whole story is is meant to appeal to our dark imaginations, 418 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:43,520 Speaker 1: and it's a terrible thing, but it's also one of 419 00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:45,600 Speaker 1: those things that you could say, yeah, I can imagine 420 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:50,080 Speaker 1: this actually playing out in some way. Ultimately, you also 421 00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:52,520 Speaker 1: have to ask the question, what's the effect you're going for. 422 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:54,800 Speaker 1: If the effect you're going for is to cause a panic, 423 00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:57,000 Speaker 1: I can't think of anything that would have caused a 424 00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:00,640 Speaker 1: bigger panic than having Soviet airmen being able to land 425 00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:05,960 Speaker 1: in US territory without any alien cover story. You don't 426 00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:11,000 Speaker 1: need that to cause a scare. There's really no benefit here. 427 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:15,399 Speaker 1: Like the the the entire operation does not seem to 428 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:19,840 Speaker 1: have an actual return on investments, so it doesn't make 429 00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:24,040 Speaker 1: sense from that perspective either. The Nazis that are involved 430 00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:27,280 Speaker 1: in in some other conspiracy theories about Area fifty one, 431 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:32,840 Speaker 1: like the the UFOs that are seen are product of 432 00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:36,160 Speaker 1: you know, Nazi experiments towards the close of the war, 433 00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:40,680 Speaker 1: and a lot of that comes from a very real, 434 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:44,600 Speaker 1: uh and kind of frightening thing that the United States 435 00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:48,679 Speaker 1: did with Operation paper Clip, which you know about when 436 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:52,359 Speaker 1: they brought over some surviving scientists from Germany right right 437 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,320 Speaker 1: right when you're when you're when you get the rockets 438 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:59,760 Speaker 1: scientists specifically who worked over in Germany to then come 439 00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:02,720 Speaker 1: to the United States and continue their work and science 440 00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:06,960 Speaker 1: and and rocketry and specifically, but now they're working for 441 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:10,000 Speaker 1: a different boss. They're working for the United States government. Uh, 442 00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:13,000 Speaker 1: and partly because they're getting guarantees from the US government 443 00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:16,040 Speaker 1: that they won't be tried as criminals for their work 444 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:19,440 Speaker 1: for the Nazi regime. So yeah, there's certain reality, real 445 00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:23,480 Speaker 1: things that were happening in history that we're probably enough 446 00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:27,480 Speaker 1: to help fuel this kind of conspiracy here in the 447 00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:31,600 Speaker 1: United States. But you know, you didn't have to look 448 00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:36,440 Speaker 1: far to see real instances of some pretty shady dealings 449 00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:40,320 Speaker 1: on both sides, uh, but without having to make stuff 450 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:44,720 Speaker 1: upright and now, Also one thing that didn't help the 451 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:48,800 Speaker 1: government's case, and as far as their official story goes, 452 00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:53,600 Speaker 1: is that it turned out they they were telling the 453 00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:56,760 Speaker 1: truth but telling its slant, as Emily Dickinson would say, right, 454 00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:59,840 Speaker 1: they were. They were not weather balloons that were being 455 00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:04,879 Speaker 1: uh deployed out over in New Mexico. Yeah, there were 456 00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:08,400 Speaker 1: balloons that were part of a spy program called Project Mogul, 457 00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:12,640 Speaker 1: which was a top secret experiment using high altitude balloons 458 00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:16,320 Speaker 1: that were carrying microphones. And the idea was the microphones 459 00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:20,520 Speaker 1: would be able to detect sounds from Soviet nuclear tests, 460 00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:23,639 Speaker 1: so that we in the United States would have a 461 00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:26,120 Speaker 1: clue when that was going on, and we that would 462 00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:29,080 Speaker 1: help us kind of know how far along the Soviets 463 00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:33,159 Speaker 1: were with their nuclear program compared to our own nuclear program. 464 00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:36,320 Speaker 1: So there was again this need for secrecy. We didn't 465 00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:38,640 Speaker 1: want the Soviets to know that we, in fact had 466 00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:42,800 Speaker 1: developed this technology to listen out for uh, these these 467 00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:46,280 Speaker 1: sound waves, um, because we didn't want them to try 468 00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:48,640 Speaker 1: and come up with different ways of testing their nuclear 469 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:52,520 Speaker 1: arms and therefore hiding it from us, so engineering it 470 00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:55,400 Speaker 1: and hearing what we're doing exactly. That's also another another 471 00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,840 Speaker 1: good point. So the cover story of weather balloons was 472 00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:02,280 Speaker 1: necessary to protect the secrecy of the spy program, but 473 00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:04,440 Speaker 1: it had nothing to do with aliens. It had everything 474 00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:07,440 Speaker 1: to do with spying it. Maybe it might have even 475 00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:10,560 Speaker 1: been to the government's benefit that people were latching on 476 00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:13,520 Speaker 1: to the aliens story because it took attention away from 477 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:16,600 Speaker 1: what it was really meant to do. So there's not 478 00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:20,720 Speaker 1: a whole lot of incentive upon the government's part to 479 00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:24,360 Speaker 1: come out and say specifically, guys, no, it's not aliens, 480 00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:27,640 Speaker 1: because it helped keep the attention away. But you don't 481 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:29,600 Speaker 1: want it to You don't want that story to run 482 00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:33,680 Speaker 1: rampant either, because it could legitimately start causing either a 483 00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:37,960 Speaker 1: panic or just a growing distrust in the government itself. Sure, 484 00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:41,680 Speaker 1: and they don't need any help. That's regardless of what 485 00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:46,720 Speaker 1: what uh what your political beliefs are we speaking of beliefs. 486 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:50,520 Speaker 1: This is going to be a lot of fun for 487 00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:54,080 Speaker 1: me personally, I think for YouTube because one thing that 488 00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:58,720 Speaker 1: always keeps the area fifty one legends alive is that there. 489 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:01,960 Speaker 1: It seems like every year there's someone who comes out 490 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:07,080 Speaker 1: and says, well, I was person exit place, why I 491 00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:11,480 Speaker 1: know the truth right, and now I will finally reveal it. 492 00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:16,360 Speaker 1: And you're thinking of someone specific in this case, right, 493 00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:21,640 Speaker 1: and specifically thinking of Bob Lazar, Yeah, Robert Lazar or 494 00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:24,959 Speaker 1: Bob Lazar, who claimed to have worked on a project 495 00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:28,680 Speaker 1: in which the military had come into possession of alien technology, 496 00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:32,640 Speaker 1: and his job was to reverse engineer that alien technology 497 00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:34,680 Speaker 1: to learn how it works so that we could take 498 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:37,680 Speaker 1: advantage of that tech here on Earth and thus kind 499 00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:40,920 Speaker 1: of leap forward what would normally be the process of 500 00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:45,240 Speaker 1: developing tech. So instead of you know, constantly testing and 501 00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:49,320 Speaker 1: improving and refining, we could jump straight ahead, you know, 502 00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:53,480 Speaker 1: skip eight steps in that process and jump straight to 503 00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:57,000 Speaker 1: you know, miraculous smartphones that react to our touch, that 504 00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:59,240 Speaker 1: kind of thing. And so he claimed that he had 505 00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:01,680 Speaker 1: worked at a facil that was near Groom Lake, so 506 00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:04,920 Speaker 1: not technically at Area fifty one, but adjacent to it. 507 00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:07,720 Speaker 1: It was the real secret place. It's called S four. Yeah, 508 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:10,240 Speaker 1: it's it's so secret that it didn't even get a 509 00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:12,880 Speaker 1: full name. Um, it just gets a letter and a 510 00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:15,920 Speaker 1: number of designation. And it's he said that it housed 511 00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:19,920 Speaker 1: no fewer than nine spacecraft. Uh. Here's the thing that 512 00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:23,720 Speaker 1: a lot of his his claims to his background don't 513 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:27,960 Speaker 1: check out right. Like he he claims to have advanced 514 00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:30,920 Speaker 1: degrees from M I T and from Cal tech, but 515 00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:33,320 Speaker 1: there's no record of him there. Now. Granted, some people 516 00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:37,600 Speaker 1: say that that's evidence of the conspiracy. Yeah that In fact, 517 00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:40,840 Speaker 1: this shows that the government was so interested in keeping 518 00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:43,600 Speaker 1: it a secret that they have wiped clean his background. 519 00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:45,800 Speaker 1: Although to do that you would also have to white 520 00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:49,920 Speaker 1: clean the memories of every professor and every student who 521 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:53,760 Speaker 1: would have also attended. And you see that this this 522 00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:56,840 Speaker 1: kind of domino effect. How how wide those ripples would 523 00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:58,840 Speaker 1: have to go in order for this to remain an 524 00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:04,200 Speaker 1: effective secret. It becomes unmanageable at some point. Wouldn't it 525 00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:07,960 Speaker 1: be easier at this point? My question would be for 526 00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:11,600 Speaker 1: many of these cases is why did someone go to 527 00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:15,800 Speaker 1: so such great links to keep you alive? Because from 528 00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:20,280 Speaker 1: from a government's perspective, we know that if they're picking 529 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:23,240 Speaker 1: one kind of skull degree, they'll pick the easier one, 530 00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:27,160 Speaker 1: which is usually an assisted fall off a building or 531 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:30,680 Speaker 1: something like that. You know, assassination is just off the table, right, 532 00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:33,760 Speaker 1: that can never be done, Like, yeah, how do you 533 00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:37,160 Speaker 1: how do you uh? If it did come down to 534 00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:41,960 Speaker 1: there's this one person who has tons of information, like 535 00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:45,960 Speaker 1: it's essentially Snowden. Yeah, there's there's an Edward Snowden of 536 00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:48,640 Speaker 1: area fifty one, who is ready. He has access to 537 00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:51,920 Speaker 1: all the information, he's ready to spill the beans. Um, 538 00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:55,280 Speaker 1: and you want to discredit him, you don't go to 539 00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:59,680 Speaker 1: every single person in his past. Don't tell anybody about this, right, 540 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:02,840 Speaker 1: It's just it's just not practical, right, It's it's it 541 00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:06,520 Speaker 1: would be a monumental task. So essentially, what we're getting 542 00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:11,120 Speaker 1: around two is that Lazar's his claims to his his 543 00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:15,959 Speaker 1: credentials are suspect, right, and that that is a very 544 00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:19,200 Speaker 1: diplomatic way to put it. Of course, you know, we're 545 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:21,800 Speaker 1: also showing that his side of it is that someone 546 00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:25,000 Speaker 1: is racing his past to discredit him. As as you said, 547 00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:29,840 Speaker 1: you know, Jonathan, recently, Mr Lazar in the past few 548 00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:34,600 Speaker 1: years went back into the public eye now I mean, 549 00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:37,840 Speaker 1: I guess more into the mainstream public eye, and he 550 00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:43,800 Speaker 1: was asked to react to the CIA's official admittance, uh 551 00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:46,600 Speaker 1: of Area fifty ones existence, which as we know, it 552 00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:49,600 Speaker 1: didn't happen for a little while. And uh he said 553 00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:52,880 Speaker 1: he was not impressed because this was a very tiny 554 00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:56,040 Speaker 1: baby step forward. I think that's the quote he used. 555 00:33:56,480 --> 00:34:00,840 Speaker 1: And uh, he was waiting for them to reveal S four, 556 00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:03,760 Speaker 1: which is the site he says he worked at reverse 557 00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:09,560 Speaker 1: engineering these things. Now, he has many, many claims. He 558 00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:17,080 Speaker 1: speaks at length about interspecial politics, about injuries he's suffered 559 00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:21,200 Speaker 1: by technology that we won't hear about for several decades. Uh. 560 00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:25,480 Speaker 1: But I I really like the point you made that Um. 561 00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:29,520 Speaker 1: One of the other things people who believe him see 562 00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:34,040 Speaker 1: his proof is um what they perceive as a inexplicable 563 00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:37,880 Speaker 1: jump in technology, right. Well, the truth is that if 564 00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:40,560 Speaker 1: you look at any technology closely enough, you will see 565 00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:46,319 Speaker 1: incremental improvements. It's very very rare that we have someone 566 00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:48,960 Speaker 1: come out with a brand new piece of technology that 567 00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:54,440 Speaker 1: has no precedent to it. Yeah, exactly, television, perfect example. 568 00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:56,680 Speaker 1: So yeah, you look at these things like television was 569 00:34:56,760 --> 00:35:00,239 Speaker 1: really building upon the developments of radio, and you think, oh, well, 570 00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:02,880 Speaker 1: what about Tesla and Marconi, Well, they were working on 571 00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:07,319 Speaker 1: research that had preceded them as well. These are all 572 00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:10,040 Speaker 1: if you if you really dig down into it, you know, 573 00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:12,040 Speaker 1: you look at the invention of the light bulb, you 574 00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:13,880 Speaker 1: look at all of these sort of inventions that we 575 00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:17,680 Speaker 1: we take for granted. We liked the stories that say 576 00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:21,120 Speaker 1: this inventor came up with this idea and implemented it 577 00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:24,760 Speaker 1: and now it exists, and before it never did. Usually 578 00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:27,440 Speaker 1: the truth is much more complicated, with lots of different 579 00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:32,440 Speaker 1: things leading into that invention, including earlier inventions that may 580 00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:36,520 Speaker 1: not have been practical but showed a working concept, and 581 00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:39,800 Speaker 1: then this other inventor like Thomas Edison comes along and 582 00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:43,520 Speaker 1: takes that takes that concept and makes it practical. So 583 00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:46,160 Speaker 1: now it's something that we can actually use as opposed 584 00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:48,839 Speaker 1: to just a cool idea, but we didn't know how 585 00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:52,880 Speaker 1: to to you know, capitalize on it. So, you know, 586 00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:56,600 Speaker 1: I think most of the advances we've seen over the 587 00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:59,719 Speaker 1: over the decades have been examples of this where people 588 00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:04,560 Speaker 1: have made incremental improvements and maybe grab together multiple pieces 589 00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:08,080 Speaker 1: of technology and then and then package them in such 590 00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:10,479 Speaker 1: a way that it's a really compelling piece of tech. 591 00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:13,840 Speaker 1: But if you break it down component by component, you 592 00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:19,840 Speaker 1: start to see the actual process of this creating something, 593 00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:23,160 Speaker 1: refining it, tweaking and putting it out again, refining it again. 594 00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:29,280 Speaker 1: I don't see any enormous leaps where someone has jumped 595 00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:32,600 Speaker 1: well ahead of everywhere else. Maybe Claude Shannon and his 596 00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:38,759 Speaker 1: uh his computer science with using binary logic. His approach 597 00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:41,640 Speaker 1: to computer science was pretty much fully formed, but that's 598 00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:44,600 Speaker 1: kind of similar to Albert Einstein and his theories of relativity. 599 00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:48,680 Speaker 1: These were ideas that both men had developed over years, 600 00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:52,719 Speaker 1: and then they presented them as complete pictures. So to us, 601 00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:56,200 Speaker 1: the outsiders, it looks like a person just came up 602 00:36:56,280 --> 00:37:00,840 Speaker 1: with a brilliant process, fully formed instantaneous sleep. The truth is, 603 00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:03,239 Speaker 1: it actually took several years to build that up, and 604 00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:08,240 Speaker 1: even then they were building on previous thoughts and knowledge. 605 00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:11,239 Speaker 1: They were just incorporating it in a new way. Yeah, 606 00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:15,040 Speaker 1: but what about the lasers. Okay, so lasers are an issue, right, Um, 607 00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:17,759 Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought up lasers. One of the things 608 00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:20,719 Speaker 1: that have has often been attributed to Area fifty one 609 00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:27,160 Speaker 1: is energy weapons. So this ties into the strategic defense initiative, 610 00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:31,680 Speaker 1: often referred to derisively as star Wars. Yeah, this was 611 00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:34,400 Speaker 1: the program in the nineteen eighties. And I promise that 612 00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:38,280 Speaker 1: I will do an episode about the Star Wars program 613 00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:41,600 Speaker 1: that will go into full detail. I know, I've got 614 00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:43,160 Speaker 1: a lot of listeners who have asked me to do it, 615 00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:45,160 Speaker 1: and I really want to at some point, but it's 616 00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:47,200 Speaker 1: gonna be a little bit further down the road. But 617 00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:49,080 Speaker 1: it's um, you know, the whole idea was that it 618 00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:51,279 Speaker 1: was going to be a system that would shoot down 619 00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:55,080 Speaker 1: incoming i C b M S intercontinental ballistic missiles. This 620 00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:57,839 Speaker 1: was the height of the Cold War nineteen eighties. I mean, 621 00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:01,799 Speaker 1: propaganda was ridiculous in the Soviet Union and the United States. 622 00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:04,480 Speaker 1: I grew up in that era, and I remember, like 623 00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:07,239 Speaker 1: the Russians being the bad guys all the time, you know, 624 00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:11,319 Speaker 1: from from uh everything from Red Dawn to Rocky four. 625 00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:14,880 Speaker 1: So anyway, um or was it three? It might have 626 00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:18,760 Speaker 1: been three Rocky three? At any rate. The the idea 627 00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:21,759 Speaker 1: here was that the energy weapons that would shoot down 628 00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:24,799 Speaker 1: these missiles were supposedly under development at Area fifty one. 629 00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:28,040 Speaker 1: Again not really the purpose for Area fifty one. I 630 00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:31,600 Speaker 1: mean you could you could understand them, uh testing such 631 00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:34,319 Speaker 1: a device, because that is kind of what they were doing. 632 00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:37,960 Speaker 1: But they were mostly testing airborne things, not not ground 633 00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:42,480 Speaker 1: to air technology. It was mostly aircraft that they were 634 00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:46,959 Speaker 1: really focusing on, and not offensive aircraft, just spycraft. Yeah, 635 00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:49,360 Speaker 1: I mean, they're some of the drones they worked on 636 00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:51,880 Speaker 1: probably had offensive kick, but yeah, it was it was 637 00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:56,160 Speaker 1: mostly again, it was mostly reconnaissance type stuff. So then 638 00:38:56,239 --> 00:39:00,000 Speaker 1: you have the weather control devices, another very popular conspirat 639 00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:03,520 Speaker 1: c theory of it. So, first of all, we don't 640 00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:07,040 Speaker 1: have any technology powerful enough to control the weather. Whether 641 00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:09,800 Speaker 1: it is an incredibly chaotic system that we do not 642 00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:12,279 Speaker 1: fully understand it. Before you can under before you can 643 00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:15,360 Speaker 1: really control something, you have to at least have some 644 00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:19,560 Speaker 1: understanding of how it works. Now, people have conducted experiments 645 00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:25,480 Speaker 1: with weather manipulation, like seeding clouds, that kind of thing, 646 00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:29,440 Speaker 1: But even this, we can't be fully sure how effective 647 00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:31,719 Speaker 1: they are, right, Because here's the problem is that you 648 00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:36,239 Speaker 1: can't you can't have a scientific consensus on whether or 649 00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:39,120 Speaker 1: not something is effective unless you're able to have a 650 00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:41,879 Speaker 1: control group. And you can't really have a control group 651 00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:44,279 Speaker 1: with weather. I mean you can you can have as 652 00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:49,200 Speaker 1: close to the same uh kind of elements in play 653 00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:52,480 Speaker 1: in two different and two different instances, and one you 654 00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:54,480 Speaker 1: seed the cloud, in one you don't, and then you 655 00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:58,160 Speaker 1: see how much rain results. But even then, again, whether 656 00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:00,600 Speaker 1: it's such a complex system that you can't you can't 657 00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:06,160 Speaker 1: be completely certain that the seating is the effective agent, right. 658 00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:08,520 Speaker 1: And you know the problem with whether is it's a 659 00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:13,320 Speaker 1: chaotic system that is one massive cluster of systems. So 660 00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:18,040 Speaker 1: any two points you pick are ultimately in the same system, 661 00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:20,520 Speaker 1: So are they really is there a control? It's tough 662 00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:22,320 Speaker 1: and stuff. And then on top of that, you know 663 00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:25,280 Speaker 1: things like HARP, which I'm sure you guys have talked about, 664 00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:30,160 Speaker 1: which was designed to to actually look at interactions in 665 00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:34,320 Speaker 1: the ionosphere. Now, the ionosphere around Earth can conduct electricity. 666 00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:37,200 Speaker 1: In fact, when we get a big electrical impulse in 667 00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:40,400 Speaker 1: there from something like a solar flare or coronal mass ejection, 668 00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:45,280 Speaker 1: it can make the auroras at the polls really active 669 00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:48,960 Speaker 1: because that's that's kind of the convergence point for this 670 00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:53,239 Speaker 1: electric field. And uh, and so there's certainly things that 671 00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:58,720 Speaker 1: interact with atmospheric um phenomena, but we still can't control 672 00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:01,399 Speaker 1: the weather there. Now it doesn't help, I'm just gonna 673 00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:04,279 Speaker 1: be honest with you, Jonathan. It does not help, uh 674 00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:09,319 Speaker 1: to dispel any of the speculation about places like HARP, 675 00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:14,000 Speaker 1: you know, when it was an operation, because the descriptions 676 00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:16,839 Speaker 1: from from the government and from HARP about what they 677 00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:21,359 Speaker 1: were doing we're just cartooniously vague in some ways. So, yeah, 678 00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:25,319 Speaker 1: it's a high frequency active auroral research program. Already you're 679 00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:28,360 Speaker 1: you're thinking they're at least a couple of words in 680 00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:30,680 Speaker 1: there that I'm not entirely sure what they're supposed to 681 00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:34,359 Speaker 1: be UM. And it really was about beaming energy into 682 00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:37,680 Speaker 1: the ionosphere too. The goal for HARP, at least on 683 00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:40,879 Speaker 1: the government side, that the military funded side, was can 684 00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:43,800 Speaker 1: we use the ionosphere as a conduit through which we 685 00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:47,439 Speaker 1: can communicate with distant vehicles like submarines that are under 686 00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:50,360 Speaker 1: the water. I mean, they really were hoping that this 687 00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:52,799 Speaker 1: would be a way of doing that. The scientists at 688 00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:55,960 Speaker 1: HARP were mostly thinking, if we can keep getting funding 689 00:41:56,120 --> 00:41:58,080 Speaker 1: for what we want to do, which is to study 690 00:41:58,160 --> 00:42:01,160 Speaker 1: the ionosphere, then we should try and keep that door 691 00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:04,320 Speaker 1: open for the possibility that this could be a communications tool, 692 00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:08,839 Speaker 1: even if we don't think it will really work. So um, 693 00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:12,000 Speaker 1: which happens. Yeah, that's that's essentially what happened with HARP. 694 00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:14,040 Speaker 1: And then eventually the military said, you know what, we're 695 00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:17,200 Speaker 1: done and they pulled the funding. So that was the 696 00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:20,040 Speaker 1: story of HARP. Well, a lot of those same stories 697 00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:24,120 Speaker 1: apply to Area fifty one, but there's no evidence that 698 00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:28,280 Speaker 1: there were any weather control systems under development. There's certainly 699 00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:32,120 Speaker 1: no evidence that anything ever did any actual weather manipulation. 700 00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:36,759 Speaker 1: So uh yeahh that just doesn't that doesn't really fly. UM. 701 00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:40,399 Speaker 1: And then if there's a piece of tech and science fiction, 702 00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:42,560 Speaker 1: there's a chance that there's at least some story out 703 00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:45,880 Speaker 1: there that there's something like that underdevelopment at Area fifty one, 704 00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:50,279 Speaker 1: you know, warp coils, teleporters, phasers, whatever you want to 705 00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:53,359 Speaker 1: think about. I realized I was focusing mainly on Star 706 00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:55,920 Speaker 1: Trek there, but but really all of that has at 707 00:42:55,960 --> 00:43:00,560 Speaker 1: some time or another been attributed to area. Warp drive uh, 708 00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:06,719 Speaker 1: teleportation devises, lightsabers, Yeah, okay, thank you. No, we've got stars, 709 00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:10,680 Speaker 1: you know, we've got there. So moving on another another 710 00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:14,120 Speaker 1: host of conspiracy theories around Area fifty one don't have 711 00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:16,719 Speaker 1: so much to do with what was actually going on 712 00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:21,759 Speaker 1: at the facility, but rather the mysterious shadowy organizations that 713 00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:24,960 Speaker 1: were behind it all. Yeah, like the real life Smoking 714 00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:29,560 Speaker 1: Man exactly. Yeah. So a lot of these conspiracy theories 715 00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:35,520 Speaker 1: involve organizations that have no official um UH designation or 716 00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:39,080 Speaker 1: they don't they aren't officially acknowledged by the government, right, 717 00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:41,759 Speaker 1: So some of them have a designation, but they're not 718 00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:45,240 Speaker 1: you know, they're they're not in any government files because 719 00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:49,440 Speaker 1: that's how secret they are. In alleged designation. Yeah, so 720 00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:53,120 Speaker 1: here the big one for Area fifty one at least 721 00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:57,520 Speaker 1: is the Majestic Twelve. Majestic twelve is a group that 722 00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:01,799 Speaker 1: existed many years ago a core to the conspiracy lore uh, 723 00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:04,759 Speaker 1: and included people like President Truman as well as the 724 00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:08,320 Speaker 1: head of CIA and also like top businessmen, like essentially 725 00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:11,919 Speaker 1: the most powerful people in the United States at that time, 726 00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:16,399 Speaker 1: and that their purpose was to solidify power and control worldwide, 727 00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:20,320 Speaker 1: right like this was gonna be like. The Trilateral Commission 728 00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:23,040 Speaker 1: was often referred to as being the secret organization for 729 00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:24,960 Speaker 1: these sort of purposes, which is not what it was 730 00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:29,520 Speaker 1: for um Uh. There are other organizations that are meant 731 00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:32,040 Speaker 1: to be like think tanks that have often been kind 732 00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:35,400 Speaker 1: of compared to this sort of ship. The Majestic twelve, however, 733 00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:40,279 Speaker 1: is one that appears to have been completely fabricated. Uh. 734 00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:43,239 Speaker 1: There was a UFO enthusiast named William L. Moore who 735 00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:47,200 Speaker 1: produced papers that he claimed proved the group's existence, but 736 00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:50,160 Speaker 1: a lot of people who have looked at these papers 737 00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:52,680 Speaker 1: have said that they don't hold up to scrutiny. That 738 00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:55,520 Speaker 1: the signatures that are there appeared to have been copied 739 00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:58,840 Speaker 1: from other documents and then pasted into them into the 740 00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:02,439 Speaker 1: Majestic twelve. The j twelve papers, uh, and that there 741 00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:05,080 Speaker 1: does not appear to be any sort of evidence supporting 742 00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:09,400 Speaker 1: the existence of such an organization. So if your organization 743 00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:13,000 Speaker 1: isn't real, then chances are it's not actually the secret 744 00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:18,800 Speaker 1: one behind are. But that's no fun. So the so, 745 00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:22,960 Speaker 1: the the the idea that has become you know, common 746 00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:24,880 Speaker 1: currency in a lot of these beliefs is that in 747 00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:30,520 Speaker 1: JA twelve did exist, but was had its world rocked 748 00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:35,520 Speaker 1: when news of the extraterrestrial crash in hit them. And 749 00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:40,320 Speaker 1: then they've they've spent the next few decades, um, you 750 00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:41,960 Speaker 1: know what, more and more. I think maybe X files 751 00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:44,960 Speaker 1: was inspired some of the well, you know, and it's 752 00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:46,880 Speaker 1: very like m J twelve shares a lot of the 753 00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:53,680 Speaker 1: same kind of traits as other shadowy, conspiratorial uh most 754 00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:57,319 Speaker 1: likely fictional organization. It's a trope. It's right up there 755 00:45:57,360 --> 00:46:00,719 Speaker 1: with things like the Illuminati, for example. Uh. Then you 756 00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:04,680 Speaker 1: have some real people who really do exist that have 757 00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:08,279 Speaker 1: kind of helped fuel the mystique around Area fifty one, 758 00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:12,400 Speaker 1: not necessarily, you know, purposefully setting out to define the mystique, 759 00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:15,040 Speaker 1: but they're part of it. And those are the Camo dudes. 760 00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:18,480 Speaker 1: That's that's what the folks in the Area fifty one 761 00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:22,120 Speaker 1: U BIZ the people who like to watch Area fifty one, 762 00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:24,200 Speaker 1: not the ones who are actually working there. What they 763 00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:27,399 Speaker 1: referred to these guys as camo dudes because they tend 764 00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:31,399 Speaker 1: to be wearing a desert camouflage outfits. You know, they're 765 00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:33,320 Speaker 1: out in Nevada, so they're wearing these these kind of 766 00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:38,960 Speaker 1: desert cam outfits. They travel in pairs, usually in in 767 00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:43,520 Speaker 1: four wheel drive vehicles, and they are uh the perimeter 768 00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:46,600 Speaker 1: guards essentially is what they serve as. So if someone 769 00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:50,440 Speaker 1: starts to come close to the Area fifty one borders, 770 00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:54,239 Speaker 1: then they may end up encountering a pair of these 771 00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:58,440 Speaker 1: camo dudes who tend to not appear to be military. 772 00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:01,440 Speaker 1: The best guests is in fact, they are probably part 773 00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:05,440 Speaker 1: of some contract group that ends up doing security for 774 00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:10,200 Speaker 1: things like military installations. So not not official military personnel, 775 00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:14,839 Speaker 1: but rather private citizens who are part of a contractor 776 00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:20,360 Speaker 1: and their job is to um to firmly suggest to 777 00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:24,040 Speaker 1: people that they should go somewhere else rather than than 778 00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:27,360 Speaker 1: try and get footage of the area. I have a 779 00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:31,160 Speaker 1: quotation for you from an incident. This is published in 780 00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:34,960 Speaker 1: the Huffington's Post. A UFO conspiracy film crew was detained 781 00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:37,920 Speaker 1: at gunpoint at the air fifty one gate. Uh in 782 00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:42,120 Speaker 1: two thousand twelve. H here's here's the quotation. According to 783 00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:46,040 Speaker 1: a crew member, a camouflage dress guard carrying an M 784 00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:49,080 Speaker 1: sixteen told a member of this team, we could make 785 00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:52,040 Speaker 1: you disappear and your body will never be found. Uh. 786 00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:55,399 Speaker 1: I'm gonna go ahead and say, maybe they're playing it up, 787 00:47:55,600 --> 00:47:59,640 Speaker 1: but the point is that, yes, you're not supposed to 788 00:47:59,719 --> 00:48:02,640 Speaker 1: be there. As we said in the first few podcast, 789 00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:05,840 Speaker 1: don't don't try to go you guys. Yeah, most of 790 00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:09,920 Speaker 1: the most of the reports I've read didn't have a 791 00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:14,600 Speaker 1: point where the the Camo dudes were actively aiming weapons 792 00:48:14,719 --> 00:48:18,200 Speaker 1: in their direction, but rather they were they were visibly armed, 793 00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:21,120 Speaker 1: so that's one thing, you know, it was certainly they 794 00:48:21,160 --> 00:48:23,880 Speaker 1: were armed, but they weren't. I don't remember reading a 795 00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:26,520 Speaker 1: whole lot of them either brandishing their weapons, like as 796 00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:29,200 Speaker 1: far as I recall, most of the incidents involved their 797 00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:33,400 Speaker 1: weapons being holstered. But they have in the past, according 798 00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:37,239 Speaker 1: to a lot of reports, confiscated film back when film 799 00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:41,839 Speaker 1: was a thing, or demanded to have various equipment turned 800 00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:45,720 Speaker 1: over to them. Because again, the facility is all about 801 00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:50,799 Speaker 1: spy aircraft, so you don't want footage leaking of either 802 00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:54,480 Speaker 1: the facility or the aircraft that are under development there. Um, 803 00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:57,000 Speaker 1: So it's not necessarily that big of a mystery. But 804 00:48:57,120 --> 00:48:58,680 Speaker 1: the fact that you have these guys who are not 805 00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:03,839 Speaker 1: easily identifiable as belonging to a specific United States government organization, sure, 806 00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:08,520 Speaker 1: that definitely adds to that mystery, and they're not identifying themselves. 807 00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:14,080 Speaker 1: And also to be candid in in some cases, not all, 808 00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:17,879 Speaker 1: but in some cases if you're making a film, then 809 00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:21,520 Speaker 1: you want to have that sort of conflict. So it 810 00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:25,640 Speaker 1: it's also possible that in some cases these are the 811 00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:29,360 Speaker 1: threat as it is as it is, is um embellished, 812 00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:35,480 Speaker 1: or it's possible that people are purposefully agitating the guards. Yeah, 813 00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:38,200 Speaker 1: it's it's definitely without being there, we can't say for 814 00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:41,520 Speaker 1: sure but that but but both scenarios seem to be 815 00:49:41,719 --> 00:49:45,440 Speaker 1: plausible to me. Right, I don't know what really unfolded. 816 00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:47,760 Speaker 1: It may be that the truth is somewhere in between 817 00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:51,640 Speaker 1: those two those two scenarios, right, But you can't accidentally 818 00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:55,000 Speaker 1: end up there, No, you purposefully we're trying to get there. 819 00:49:55,080 --> 00:49:58,640 Speaker 1: And this is clearly an area that is off limits. Uh, 820 00:49:58,760 --> 00:50:02,759 Speaker 1: and is you know, is legally off limits some people are. 821 00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:04,960 Speaker 1: And you know, we talked about that in the second 822 00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:08,160 Speaker 1: episode of the history about how Area fifty one gets 823 00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:13,239 Speaker 1: a whole lot of legal leeway um in in ways 824 00:50:13,320 --> 00:50:15,520 Speaker 1: that other places in the United States simply do not, 825 00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:20,080 Speaker 1: and that that also adds to this curiosity we have 826 00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:23,120 Speaker 1: of Area fifty one. I think we've really covered kind 827 00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:26,600 Speaker 1: of what drives that, the fact that, you know, human 828 00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:30,359 Speaker 1: beings are curious, right, we want to know things. When 829 00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:33,719 Speaker 1: we see something that we do not understand, often one 830 00:50:33,760 --> 00:50:37,160 Speaker 1: of our earliest responses is how does that work? Or 831 00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:40,960 Speaker 1: what is going on here? What's really happening unless it's 832 00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:43,920 Speaker 1: really scary, and which is where's the closest exit? And 833 00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:47,239 Speaker 1: can I run faster than ben um Because you don't 834 00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:50,000 Speaker 1: have to run the fastest, just faster than the slowest person. 835 00:50:51,040 --> 00:50:53,360 Speaker 1: As long as I'm not the slowest person in the office, 836 00:50:54,040 --> 00:50:58,000 Speaker 1: I'm still got a chance. Yeah, so I can certainly 837 00:50:58,040 --> 00:51:01,400 Speaker 1: see and I ll it too. I mean, I certainly 838 00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:05,360 Speaker 1: have this curiosity about Area fifty one. Heck, just just 839 00:51:05,480 --> 00:51:09,440 Speaker 1: going from the baseline most mundane description of what's going 840 00:51:09,520 --> 00:51:13,160 Speaker 1: on there, there's still so many questions like how do 841 00:51:13,280 --> 00:51:15,840 Speaker 1: they how do they really maintain that level of secrecy. 842 00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:19,080 Speaker 1: How much does the typical worker at Area fifty one 843 00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:22,560 Speaker 1: know about what's going on. How do they make sure 844 00:51:22,680 --> 00:51:26,760 Speaker 1: that people working on one project remain oblivious to everything 845 00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:30,000 Speaker 1: else that's happening. How do they schedule these things? What 846 00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:33,719 Speaker 1: is it like being a pilot for one of these aircraft? 847 00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:35,160 Speaker 1: I mean, there are a lot of questions that we 848 00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:38,680 Speaker 1: don't have the answers too. So I think, uh, you know, 849 00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:41,280 Speaker 1: it was a lot of fun tackling this this subject, 850 00:51:41,320 --> 00:51:43,440 Speaker 1: and I think it really did merit the three episodes 851 00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:47,320 Speaker 1: because it is such a touchstone for everything from the 852 00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:53,200 Speaker 1: political ideology from the nineteen fifties forward to just a 853 00:51:53,320 --> 00:51:57,600 Speaker 1: pop culture you know, touchstone, right, It's it's like, that's 854 00:51:57,680 --> 00:52:01,239 Speaker 1: that's the go to for science fiction for you. Absolutely. 855 00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:05,719 Speaker 1: When and now that we have along with the rest 856 00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:10,440 Speaker 1: of the text off audience explored, stim discerned, the the 857 00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:13,480 Speaker 1: ideas and the reality and the mist Very fifty one, 858 00:52:13,760 --> 00:52:15,960 Speaker 1: I have to ask you, now, what would you do 859 00:52:16,680 --> 00:52:18,440 Speaker 1: if one of the you know, if one of the 860 00:52:18,520 --> 00:52:21,920 Speaker 1: strangest things turned out to be true? H you know, 861 00:52:23,120 --> 00:52:25,279 Speaker 1: I like to I would like to think that I'm 862 00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:29,920 Speaker 1: the type of skeptic who when presented with incontrovertible evidence 863 00:52:30,680 --> 00:52:33,359 Speaker 1: that something I believe to be true is in fact 864 00:52:33,480 --> 00:52:37,800 Speaker 1: not true, and that something I thought was just purely 865 00:52:37,880 --> 00:52:40,520 Speaker 1: made up is in fact the truth, that I would 866 00:52:40,560 --> 00:52:43,879 Speaker 1: be able to accept it. Saying that and actually doing 867 00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:46,880 Speaker 1: it are two different things, right, I don't know if 868 00:52:46,960 --> 00:52:49,239 Speaker 1: that's how I would truly react. I'd like to think 869 00:52:49,840 --> 00:52:54,000 Speaker 1: that if suddenly there was just pure evidence that in 870 00:52:54,080 --> 00:52:57,320 Speaker 1: fact the Roswal incident involved aliens, and that the aliens 871 00:52:57,360 --> 00:52:59,440 Speaker 1: were in fact Holstad area fifty one, and all of 872 00:52:59,520 --> 00:53:03,320 Speaker 1: these easy conspiracy theories were actually true, I like to 873 00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:05,200 Speaker 1: believe that I would be able to say, you know what, 874 00:53:05,880 --> 00:53:09,160 Speaker 1: I never would have bought into this, but it turns 875 00:53:09,200 --> 00:53:10,920 Speaker 1: out it was right and I was wrong. I'd like 876 00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:12,719 Speaker 1: to think I could do that. I think you would. 877 00:53:12,719 --> 00:53:16,160 Speaker 1: I like, Okay. Incontrovertible evidence then would have to be 878 00:53:16,320 --> 00:53:22,080 Speaker 1: something like aliens landing at your house and saying like, hey, guys, 879 00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:25,120 Speaker 1: have you seen our buddies. They showed up maybe I 880 00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:29,560 Speaker 1: don't know, you know, seventy earth years ago something around there. Yeah, 881 00:53:29,600 --> 00:53:32,120 Speaker 1: they checked their watch for seventy year years ago, and 882 00:53:32,520 --> 00:53:35,960 Speaker 1: they're big fans of text stuff, and so they heard 883 00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:38,960 Speaker 1: that we had done an episode. Yeah, I feel like 884 00:53:39,040 --> 00:53:42,760 Speaker 1: you're the kind of guy would go, huh, well yeah, okay, 885 00:53:42,880 --> 00:53:45,160 Speaker 1: I guess let me let me call my boss. I 886 00:53:45,160 --> 00:53:47,719 Speaker 1: would be like some of them, all right, Well, it 887 00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:49,719 Speaker 1: turns out I was a big fat head and I 888 00:53:49,800 --> 00:53:52,879 Speaker 1: was wrong about everything. That's not everything. But also, yeah, 889 00:53:52,920 --> 00:53:55,440 Speaker 1: it is true that there is at least there are 890 00:53:55,640 --> 00:53:59,680 Speaker 1: several conspiracies that we're at work at Area fifty one, 891 00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:04,480 Speaker 1: and we we've explored those, and I guess what what 892 00:54:04,640 --> 00:54:06,480 Speaker 1: I would want people to take away from this is 893 00:54:06,560 --> 00:54:11,440 Speaker 1: that there really is amazing strange science fiction action thriller 894 00:54:11,520 --> 00:54:14,640 Speaker 1: movie level stuff there. It just may not be what 895 00:54:14,920 --> 00:54:17,600 Speaker 1: people are claiming it is, right, That doesn't mean it's 896 00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:20,920 Speaker 1: you know, not interesting. It certainly is, and it's uh, 897 00:54:21,239 --> 00:54:25,279 Speaker 1: it's really again an evidence of human achievement for both 898 00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:29,320 Speaker 1: an engineering side and just a secrecy keeping side, because 899 00:54:29,480 --> 00:54:31,880 Speaker 1: it's really hard to keep those secrets. So I do 900 00:54:32,000 --> 00:54:35,319 Speaker 1: suspect that they do that by managing how many people 901 00:54:35,400 --> 00:54:37,960 Speaker 1: are allowed to know any one thing at any one time, 902 00:54:38,920 --> 00:54:43,160 Speaker 1: otherwise you know, loose lips. So Ben, now that we've 903 00:54:43,200 --> 00:54:46,680 Speaker 1: concluded these three episodes, please let our listeners know where 904 00:54:46,719 --> 00:54:48,960 Speaker 1: they can find all of the things that you do 905 00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:52,160 Speaker 1: here at how Stuff Works. Oh yeah, thank you Jonathan, 906 00:54:52,239 --> 00:54:55,680 Speaker 1: and thank you Text Stuff listeners as well for having 907 00:54:55,760 --> 00:54:59,520 Speaker 1: me over. Uh. You can find more of our episodes 908 00:54:59,680 --> 00:55:03,440 Speaker 1: of Stuff they Don't Want You to Know on YouTube 909 00:55:03,640 --> 00:55:06,759 Speaker 1: on iTunes, you can also find Jonathan and I on 910 00:55:07,400 --> 00:55:11,200 Speaker 1: brain Stuff, which is our everyday science show. And you 911 00:55:11,400 --> 00:55:14,600 Speaker 1: can find uh Scott who might be making appearance on 912 00:55:14,680 --> 00:55:19,200 Speaker 1: here later, uh my compatriot on car Stuff and uh, well, 913 00:55:19,280 --> 00:55:21,800 Speaker 1: you know, Jonathan and I are on a bunch of 914 00:55:21,880 --> 00:55:24,600 Speaker 1: different shows. If you haven't checked out Forward Thinking or 915 00:55:24,640 --> 00:55:27,799 Speaker 1: heard about it yet, then give give him a look. 916 00:55:27,840 --> 00:55:31,359 Speaker 1: He's also on YouTube under that show Ben I ask 917 00:55:31,400 --> 00:55:33,239 Speaker 1: you to plug your shows and you start plugging. Mind 918 00:55:33,480 --> 00:55:36,000 Speaker 1: what a swell guy is there? There's no doubt. Well 919 00:55:36,080 --> 00:55:38,279 Speaker 1: now why I have him on all the time? Right? Well, 920 00:55:38,360 --> 00:55:41,560 Speaker 1: guys out there, if you have any questions about Area 921 00:55:41,640 --> 00:55:45,239 Speaker 1: fifty one, or you have any stories you want to share, 922 00:55:45,480 --> 00:55:48,239 Speaker 1: maybe your favorite conspiracy theory, or maybe you just want 923 00:55:48,280 --> 00:55:51,560 Speaker 1: to know how something in the tech world works. You 924 00:55:51,680 --> 00:55:54,480 Speaker 1: have an idea for a show that is is you know, 925 00:55:54,640 --> 00:55:56,400 Speaker 1: just burning you up inside. You gotta let me know. 926 00:55:57,080 --> 00:55:59,399 Speaker 1: Get in touch with me, My email address is tech 927 00:55:59,480 --> 00:56:02,440 Speaker 1: Stuff at how stuff works dot com, or drop me 928 00:56:02,520 --> 00:56:05,239 Speaker 1: a line on Twitter, Facebook or Tumbler. My handle at 929 00:56:05,280 --> 00:56:07,920 Speaker 1: all three is tech stuff H s W and I'll 930 00:56:07,920 --> 00:56:13,520 Speaker 1: talk to you again really soon for more on this 931 00:56:13,719 --> 00:56:16,200 Speaker 1: and thousands of other topics, because it how stuff works 932 00:56:16,239 --> 00:56:16,640 Speaker 1: dot com