1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:04,920 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace is coming to Fox Nation. I Want justice. 2 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:08,760 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace premieres March ninth, only on 3 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:18,800 Speaker 1: Fox Nation. A little baby found dead in a cornfield 4 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:29,680 Speaker 1: ditch near Sioux Falls. Placenta, umbilical cord all there? The baby? 5 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:36,080 Speaker 1: Was it dead? Was it left to die? I want 6 00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:55,440 Speaker 1: answers Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I'm Nancy Grace. This 7 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 1: is Crime Stories. Thank you for joining us here on 8 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:03,600 Speaker 1: Fox Nation and series Sex one eleven Triumph. Why would 9 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:09,800 Speaker 1: anyone leave a baby's body or a living baby, placenta 10 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:14,480 Speaker 1: and umbilical cord in a corn filled ditch. That's what 11 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:17,679 Speaker 1: I want to know right now. Joining me an all 12 00:01:17,959 --> 00:01:20,399 Speaker 1: star panel to break it down and put it back 13 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:25,480 Speaker 1: together again. Former prosecutor now defense attorney Darryl Cohen, who 14 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:29,520 Speaker 1: practices all over the US, joining me from the Atlanta jurisdiction. 15 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:34,640 Speaker 1: Former special agent with the FBI, current star of Facebook 16 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:41,760 Speaker 1: series Curse of Acacor Bobby Chicon. Karen Stark, New York psychologist. 17 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:44,160 Speaker 1: You can find her at Karen Stark dot com. With 18 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:48,320 Speaker 1: a C. Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University. An author of 19 00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:54,720 Speaker 1: Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon Joseph Scott Morgan, genetic 20 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:59,040 Speaker 1: genealogist known as the gene hunter. Cheryl A point. But 21 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:05,240 Speaker 1: right now, to Christy Kwan with WCYB Bristol, Virginia reporter 22 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 1: joining us, I want to just start with how the 23 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:14,400 Speaker 1: little baby was found. Take a listen now to our 24 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:19,959 Speaker 1: friends joining us. He grad had just bought a different 25 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:22,040 Speaker 1: vehicle and we were trying it out, and that's why 26 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:25,280 Speaker 1: we were out in that area. We were turning around 27 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:29,680 Speaker 1: and in an approach, and that's where we've seen the blankets. 28 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:34,400 Speaker 1: And I just curious. You got the best of me. 29 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 1: I don't know why. I think it's because it's a 30 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:38,600 Speaker 1: new blanket. It looked like a newer blanket and everything. 31 00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:45,640 Speaker 1: And but there's times where I wish I hadn't found him, 32 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 1: and there's other times where I'm glad I did. I 33 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:50,720 Speaker 1: just wish I could have found him earlier, when he 34 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:55,760 Speaker 1: was still alive, before he died. He never got a 35 00:02:55,840 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 1: chance to do anything, I mean, never got a chance 36 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:04,840 Speaker 1: to live. And Wow, just in that very brief statement, 37 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:08,680 Speaker 1: I learned so much. I learned. The little baby boy, 38 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:13,400 Speaker 1: the infant, the newborn, was found by accident by someone 39 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:19,000 Speaker 1: unrelated to the infant. I hear that there was a 40 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:23,760 Speaker 1: brand new baby blanket. Someone had gone and bought a 41 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 1: brand new baby blanket and buried with the baby. That 42 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:33,079 Speaker 1: tells me it's someone connected to the baby, not that 43 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 1: the baby was stolen from the hospital or from a 44 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 1: home birth. This is someone that cared to go buy 45 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 1: a baby blanket. You were hearing the voice of Argus 46 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 1: leader Lauren Townsley speaking to Lee. Let's but I want 47 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:51,760 Speaker 1: you to take another listen to what Argus has to say. 48 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:55,960 Speaker 1: The man who finds the baby did he just uh. 49 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:01,360 Speaker 1: I have a lot of aliens for people like that 50 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 1: and things like that, and I just, like I say, 51 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:11,000 Speaker 1: I just hope they could find a woman that did 52 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 1: that and put her away. And this is what's happening. 53 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:21,800 Speaker 1: So but I think it's just the fact that I 54 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 1: followed him is probably the biggest reason that it's not 55 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 1: not at me so bad. Well, it means I don't 56 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:36,160 Speaker 1: have to think about where that gal is anymore trying 57 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:43,080 Speaker 1: to figure out who did this to him, And I'm 58 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:47,680 Speaker 1: just happy all I can say. You know, Um, I've 59 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:50,359 Speaker 1: seen a lot of dead bodies, and I've been to 60 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:57,080 Speaker 1: a lot of homicide crime scenes, seen a lot of witnesses, victims, purps, 61 00:04:57,400 --> 00:05:00,560 Speaker 1: dyeing in the hospital. But you know what, dear Kohen, 62 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:05,520 Speaker 1: former prosecutor now defense attorney, You never get used to it, 63 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 1: especially when it's never happened to you before. When you 64 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:12,479 Speaker 1: come upon a dead body, Darryl, I mean with all 65 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:17,240 Speaker 1: the cases we've prosecuted, certainly you've been on a homicide scene, Nancy, 66 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:21,279 Speaker 1: you never get used to a dead body, especially a 67 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:25,360 Speaker 1: baby's dead body. You could see it ten million times 68 00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:28,600 Speaker 1: and it does the same thing to you. You get chills, 69 00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:32,040 Speaker 1: you get sick, you get disappointed. You look at it 70 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 1: say this cannot be happening. I cannot be seeing what 71 00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:38,920 Speaker 1: I think I'm seeing, And you're an absolute, utter and 72 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 1: complete denial. It is one of the worst possible moments 73 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 1: of your life. And every time it happens, it happens 74 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:50,839 Speaker 1: for the first time. It is horrible. There's no way 75 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:56,159 Speaker 1: to explain it. There's no way to explain the feelings 76 00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:59,040 Speaker 1: that you have. You have to go through it, and 77 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 1: you don't want anyone else to ever go through it. 78 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 1: You know, you stated it perfectly, and to you. Bobby Chicone, 79 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 1: a former special agent FBI, and start on Facebook, Bobby, 80 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:15,559 Speaker 1: I recall talking to you about a young girl who 81 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 1: went missing and you ended up overseeing, supervising a dive 82 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:26,800 Speaker 1: effort in freezing cold tempts with a tent out in 83 00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:31,160 Speaker 1: the middle of a frozen lake and a hole cut 84 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:35,760 Speaker 1: in the ice going down, with the divers going down, 85 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:39,960 Speaker 1: and instead of bringing up the girl's body, they were 86 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:45,920 Speaker 1: bringing up body parts in individual bags. And that's just 87 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:49,200 Speaker 1: one of the many cases you and I have dissected. 88 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:56,599 Speaker 1: But even for me, I never have gotten over seeing 89 00:06:56,600 --> 00:07:02,720 Speaker 1: a dead human body. It just something that's when you see. 90 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:05,440 Speaker 1: For me, anyway, when I see a spider or a snake, 91 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:11,960 Speaker 1: I know I'm gonna be fine, but there's something innately, 92 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 1: instinctively repellent. I back off immediately. And I had to 93 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:20,360 Speaker 1: get over that with the twins, because when you see 94 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:22,520 Speaker 1: a spider in the house, it's on you. Okay, you 95 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:25,600 Speaker 1: gotta get it. So what I'm saying is there's something 96 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 1: in us it's instinctive when you see a dead body. 97 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:30,560 Speaker 1: I don't know what that is. I guess I'll have 98 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 1: to go to the shrink on it. But Bobby, that 99 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:35,760 Speaker 1: never goes away. Would you see a dead body much 100 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:39,640 Speaker 1: less as a civilian seeing one? Yeah, no, it doesn't, Nancy. 101 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 1: I recovered my first child in nineteen ninety six from 102 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 1: a quarry in West Virginia, and it's like it happened yesterday. 103 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:49,400 Speaker 1: And over the next nineteen years running the FBI Dive program, 104 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:51,920 Speaker 1: there are many other children that we were called upon 105 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:55,640 Speaker 1: to recover. And you're right, any dead body, any homie 106 00:07:55,640 --> 00:07:58,040 Speaker 1: i'd seen, is horrific. But when you have to recover 107 00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:00,600 Speaker 1: a child, and me and my divers were literally the 108 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:03,120 Speaker 1: first ones to put our hands on that child. Uh, 109 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:06,640 Speaker 1: since the killer, who who deposited you know, who dispose 110 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 1: of the body? UM and bringing that that child back 111 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:12,680 Speaker 1: to the parents and back to the corner vote of 112 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:16,840 Speaker 1: van Um. It never goes away. I'm long retired now 113 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:20,120 Speaker 1: and I still, you know, get help with dealing with 114 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:24,360 Speaker 1: the after effects of so many different meeting their violent 115 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:27,680 Speaker 1: ends from predators. UM and and and and I you 116 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:30,120 Speaker 1: know the divers. You know, I used to care for 117 00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:31,640 Speaker 1: my divers and make sure they got the care that 118 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:34,840 Speaker 1: they needed. UM. But but it doesn't go away, and 119 00:08:34,880 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 1: it it has you know, effects on you that you 120 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:39,080 Speaker 1: need to monitor, You need to have outlet, you need 121 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:41,839 Speaker 1: to have help dealing with because as human beings. We 122 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:44,480 Speaker 1: just aren't equipped most of the time to deal with 123 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 1: us on our own. And uh yeah, it's it's something 124 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:49,760 Speaker 1: that doesn't go even when I read stories now like 125 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:52,120 Speaker 1: us are getting involved with stories like this. Um, there 126 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:55,079 Speaker 1: are minor triggers that I have to be aware of that, 127 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:57,720 Speaker 1: um that I have to use the tools that I've 128 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:00,559 Speaker 1: been given in my toolbox to to deal with it. 129 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:03,480 Speaker 1: What about it, Joseph Scott Morgan. I mean, you are 130 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:09,400 Speaker 1: bill as a death investigator. When you go home with 131 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:14,240 Speaker 1: your beautiful wife, does it stick in your mind the 132 00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:18,960 Speaker 1: dead body you handled that day, or one a year ago, 133 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:22,160 Speaker 1: one or twenty years ago, or do you focus on 134 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:24,800 Speaker 1: the here and now? Keep your head straight. In order 135 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 1: to keep your head straight, you have to force yourself 136 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:29,160 Speaker 1: to focus on the here and now. But the problem 137 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:37,640 Speaker 1: is is that every death has a residue that hangs 138 00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:41,040 Speaker 1: with you for the remainder of your life and it 139 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:44,360 Speaker 1: never goes away. Because for people in my field and 140 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:48,559 Speaker 1: medical legal death investigation, it's not just homicides, it's the 141 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:52,280 Speaker 1: entire gamut. And many times we're the only people there 142 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:55,920 Speaker 1: to even note that this person even existed. So you 143 00:09:56,040 --> 00:10:01,000 Speaker 1: bear that burden, you know, when I talked young cops 144 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:04,760 Speaker 1: and police academy, which I instruct you know, every year 145 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 1: three or four times. I tell them that you're given 146 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:11,800 Speaker 1: a bag and for every death that you handle, imagine 147 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:14,079 Speaker 1: every death as a one pound stone and you put 148 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:15,920 Speaker 1: it in that bag and you carry it with it 149 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:18,200 Speaker 1: for the rest of your life. You can't forget it. 150 00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:21,320 Speaker 1: And so you have to develop those tools. But nothing 151 00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:25,360 Speaker 1: impacts you anymore than the death of a child. And 152 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:28,800 Speaker 1: that sounds cliche, but it's the honest to goodness truth. 153 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:32,520 Speaker 1: It just you see promise there, you see the potential there, 154 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:37,520 Speaker 1: and many times in a case like this, you know, 155 00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:41,320 Speaker 1: you just see these children that are discarded like so 156 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:44,360 Speaker 1: much garbage, and it breaks absolutely breaks your heart. And 157 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:47,199 Speaker 1: there's nobody you can really talk to about it that 158 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:51,280 Speaker 1: really identifies with what you've seen. So yeah, it's haunting, 159 00:10:51,320 --> 00:11:06,000 Speaker 1: to say the very least time. Stories with Nancy Grace, 160 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:11,840 Speaker 1: when you're talking about, especially as civilian, suddenly finding a 161 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 1: dead body, that's what we're talking about right now, the 162 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:20,040 Speaker 1: discovery of a child's dead body. Take a listen, not 163 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:23,320 Speaker 1: just a child, an infant. Take a listen now to 164 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:28,120 Speaker 1: Sioux Falls Police pressor that area of Sioux Falls, which 165 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:31,679 Speaker 1: is now deep and residential. As you can see by 166 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:36,079 Speaker 1: the photo. At the crime scene was a field approached cornfield. 167 00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:39,760 Speaker 1: As they were just driving this vehicle. They turned around 168 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:42,600 Speaker 1: them that approach and they saw one looked like just 169 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:45,520 Speaker 1: some blankets in the dish. They decided to get out 170 00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:50,520 Speaker 1: and inspect them and found a deceased baby. The investigators 171 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 1: were really diligently during that time. However, they did not 172 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:57,000 Speaker 1: have anything that we have today as far as DNA 173 00:11:57,080 --> 00:12:01,120 Speaker 1: technology and the advances that we have today. They ran 174 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:03,839 Speaker 1: out of leeds very quickly. There's some few phone calls 175 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:06,920 Speaker 1: that came in. They were followed up to a woman 176 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:09,280 Speaker 1: answering the door, hold the baby, or a woman answering 177 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:12,880 Speaker 1: the door still obviously pregnant recently. Got no tips at 178 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:16,840 Speaker 1: all that warranted anything that what the point us to 179 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:24,120 Speaker 1: this family. The case never gets close. These don't go close. However, 180 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:26,960 Speaker 1: it does go cold. Guys, you were just hearing the 181 00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:31,040 Speaker 1: detective Michael Webb's speaking about an infant boy found in 182 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 1: a ditch. Let's go straight out to our reporter joining 183 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 1: us from WCYB Brustol, Virginia Kristin, Kwan Kristin, thank you 184 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:40,080 Speaker 1: so much for being with us. Let's just start with 185 00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:43,800 Speaker 1: the discovery of the body. People found the little baby 186 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:47,440 Speaker 1: while out test driving a car and saw what looked 187 00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:51,400 Speaker 1: to beat blankets in a ditch. I'm really surprised they 188 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:53,360 Speaker 1: got out and looked, because a lot of people just 189 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:56,040 Speaker 1: keep on going. So let's just start at the beginning. 190 00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:59,000 Speaker 1: Christ and what happened right? So, I mean, namely, he 191 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 1: was test driving this jeep vehicle when he noticed that 192 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:08,400 Speaker 1: wine colored blanket in the ditch near the cornfield, and 193 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:11,600 Speaker 1: for some reason, for whatever reason, it just kind of 194 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:14,320 Speaker 1: seemed odd to him, So they pulled over the car 195 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:16,880 Speaker 1: and that's when they discovered the baby in the blanket. 196 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:20,160 Speaker 1: What can you tell me about the condition of the 197 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:24,520 Speaker 1: baby later named baby Andrew? Since no one knew who 198 00:13:24,559 --> 00:13:27,320 Speaker 1: the baby was, what can you tell me? Well, they said, 199 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:31,240 Speaker 1: when they picked up the blankets and saw the baby, 200 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:34,480 Speaker 1: that you know, they knew that the baby was dead, 201 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:38,240 Speaker 1: and that it was still attached to the placenta, still 202 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:41,079 Speaker 1: had it some bilical cord, and that tears were actually 203 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:48,760 Speaker 1: frozen to its face. Just horrific tears frozen to the 204 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:56,400 Speaker 1: baby's face. I gotta tell you. Even now, my twins 205 00:13:56,440 --> 00:14:01,280 Speaker 1: are twelve and nothing staffs me in the heart, like 206 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:06,559 Speaker 1: seeing one of them cry. And when they were Kneeborn's 207 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:11,880 Speaker 1: and I heard them cry. I don't know if it's instintive, 208 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:15,600 Speaker 1: what it is. It just makes you run to them, 209 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:18,800 Speaker 1: or it made me run to them. Take a listen 210 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:22,160 Speaker 1: to Sioux Falls Police pressor this is the police Chief 211 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:29,200 Speaker 1: Matt Burns. On February twenty eighth, nineteen eighty one, SFP 212 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:31,560 Speaker 1: units responded the area of where it now thirty third 213 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:34,480 Speaker 1: and Secamore Avenue the report of a baby lying in 214 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:38,760 Speaker 1: a ditch. Arriving officers found a deceased, full term newborn 215 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 1: male there, but no other identifying information. He had been 216 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:46,000 Speaker 1: loosely wrapped in a bloodstained blanket and left all alone 217 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:49,960 Speaker 1: in the cold, and autopsy revealed that the intert was 218 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:53,400 Speaker 1: born alive and had been breathing, but it's slowly succumbed 219 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 1: to exposure. Detectives followed up on the available ease, but 220 00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:00,520 Speaker 1: there were not many, and they soon ride up as 221 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:03,640 Speaker 1: our community came to griff with the horror of the 222 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:07,359 Speaker 1: crime that was committed. No suspects of family could be identifact. 223 00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:11,920 Speaker 1: Saint Michael's Cemetery graciously offered to turn the baby. He 224 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:15,240 Speaker 1: gave him the name of Andrew John Doe. You were 225 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:18,360 Speaker 1: hearing Sue Falls police. That was the police chief, Matt 226 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:21,200 Speaker 1: and Byrne speaking, And I just learned a lot from 227 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:26,040 Speaker 1: hearing the police pressor Joseph Scott Morgan death investigator. We 228 00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:32,320 Speaker 1: know the baby was loosely wrapped in a bloodstained blanket 229 00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:37,400 Speaker 1: that was new, left alone in the cold. But the 230 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:43,760 Speaker 1: baby boy died not from strangulation or asphyxiation, died from 231 00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:49,080 Speaker 1: being out in the elements. All right. Number one, how 232 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:51,240 Speaker 1: do you know the baby's born alive? Joe Scott Morgan? 233 00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:54,320 Speaker 1: You know because, Nancy, I mean, I think one of 234 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:57,600 Speaker 1: the most horrific things that you just mentioned a second 235 00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:02,120 Speaker 1: ago is that the childhood fro and tears on the 236 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:05,080 Speaker 1: child's face, and that gives us an indication that the 237 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 1: child was alive. The child actually dwindled away in these 238 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:13,880 Speaker 1: freezing cold temperatures. This isn't Sue Falls in February, Nancy, 239 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:18,040 Speaker 1: this is a harsh, harsh environment. The child has nothing 240 00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:21,360 Speaker 1: but a couple of blankets wrapped around it, and the 241 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:24,760 Speaker 1: child was alive at that point in tom alive to 242 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:27,880 Speaker 1: the point where the child was crying. You know, this newborn, 243 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:32,560 Speaker 1: the most fragile among us, is alive. One of the 244 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:35,800 Speaker 1: things that they would have done at autopsy in particular is, 245 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:37,800 Speaker 1: and I don't want to be too graphic here, but 246 00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:41,280 Speaker 1: when they do do the autopsy, they will check and 247 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:46,400 Speaker 1: actually see if the child's lungs had actually been expanded 248 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:51,280 Speaker 1: at that point. Tom given, yeah, to give an indication 249 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:55,600 Speaker 1: as to whether or not the child had actually inhalated oxygen. 250 00:16:55,640 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 1: And this, yeah, what are you saying? Okay, what I'm saying? 251 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:06,320 Speaker 1: What do you mean? How can you look at the lungs? 252 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:11,960 Speaker 1: What do you see specifically speak regular people talk, not 253 00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:15,520 Speaker 1: doctor talk. Okay, what do you see when you look 254 00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:19,159 Speaker 1: at that sliver of lung or the lungs as you 255 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:22,800 Speaker 1: of them? Ye? Now, okay, first off, if we're looking 256 00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:27,200 Speaker 1: at the at the lung in total that is not effected, dissected, 257 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:30,199 Speaker 1: or cut, we're looking to see if the lungs are 258 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:34,600 Speaker 1: actually expanded, and that means they've taken air on the 259 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:40,640 Speaker 1: kind of like blowing up a balloon. Yet is flat, right, 260 00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:42,840 Speaker 1: And so if the child had been born to cease, 261 00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:46,200 Speaker 1: those lungs would not have been in this manner. It 262 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:48,679 Speaker 1: would have been like a deflated balloon, for instance, And 263 00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:52,040 Speaker 1: that's one of the biggest indicators. Back during this time 264 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:57,160 Speaker 1: when this child was found, a standard procedure at autopsy 265 00:17:57,200 --> 00:17:59,520 Speaker 1: would have needed too, something that's called the float test, 266 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:02,080 Speaker 1: where you literally take a bucket of water, you take 267 00:18:02,119 --> 00:18:05,800 Speaker 1: these tiny, little precious lungs and how big or a 268 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:11,879 Speaker 1: child lungs? Well, for this, yeah, probably about the size 269 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:15,480 Speaker 1: of a fist with a newborn baby. I could give 270 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:17,800 Speaker 1: you specific weight, but I don't think that most people 271 00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:19,760 Speaker 1: can identify with it. But if you think about it, 272 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:22,119 Speaker 1: if you'll bawl your fist up as tight as you 273 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:25,680 Speaker 1: possibly can, that's going to give you an indication as 274 00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:29,680 Speaker 1: to the size of these lungs. And if the lungs 275 00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:32,960 Speaker 1: are placed into say this big bucket of water, and 276 00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:35,480 Speaker 1: they float, so it's called a float test, that means 277 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:39,359 Speaker 1: that the lungs have literally been aerated or filled with air, 278 00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:41,720 Speaker 1: and that gives you an indication that the child was 279 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:44,159 Speaker 1: in fact alive. Do you talk like this when you 280 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 1: get home? Do you say things, the lungs were aerated? 281 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:50,280 Speaker 1: Do you say things yeah, yeah, actually stayed with you. 282 00:18:50,359 --> 00:18:54,639 Speaker 1: Apparently it's kind of great vocabulary, by the way, So 283 00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:56,760 Speaker 1: there you go. Well, as long as he's talking about 284 00:18:56,760 --> 00:18:59,360 Speaker 1: dead bodies, I'm sure he has a lot to say. Okay, 285 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:03,560 Speaker 1: off that and onto this. Back to Kristin Kwan joining 286 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:08,040 Speaker 1: us from Brustoll, Virginia w CYB. How did they know 287 00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:11,040 Speaker 1: the blanket was new? And I need to know that 288 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:14,159 Speaker 1: to go to my shrink, right, So they examined the 289 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:18,640 Speaker 1: blankets and they could see that they were newer, and 290 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:21,960 Speaker 1: then they could see the other things that the mother 291 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:26,240 Speaker 1: actually had had left too, or what else was left 292 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 1: with the baby. There were some clothing items, some women's 293 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:33,160 Speaker 1: clothing items that were left as well. Do you know what. 294 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:36,120 Speaker 1: I can't remember at this time what exactly they were, 295 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:41,159 Speaker 1: but they were women's items, you know. Very curious, very curious. Indeed, 296 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:45,560 Speaker 1: that women's clothing was also left there. It would almost 297 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:50,000 Speaker 1: indicate a double murder, that the mother had been killed 298 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:57,640 Speaker 1: as well. This little baby, dubbed Baby Andrew John Joe 299 00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:02,120 Speaker 1: found dead with the plus still attached to the infant. 300 00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:08,440 Speaker 1: Blood found on women's underwear, a shirt, and some Kleenex 301 00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:12,080 Speaker 1: like material next to him. Now we have learned that 302 00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:18,000 Speaker 1: from the police affidavit had been breathing but slowly succumbed 303 00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:23,840 Speaker 1: to exposure. And I am quoting directly from the police 304 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:36,399 Speaker 1: chief Matt Burns. Detectives followed up the case goes cold. Hi, guys, 305 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:43,240 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. Here, I have investigated and prosecuted literally thousands 306 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:48,280 Speaker 1: of felony cases. I have covered literally thousands of cases 307 00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:54,000 Speaker 1: of missing people, adults and children, unsolved homicides, violent crimes. 308 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 1: My question is what can we do about it. I 309 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:02,159 Speaker 1: don't want to just sit back and report on it. 310 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:05,119 Speaker 1: I want to take action, and I know you must 311 00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:08,800 Speaker 1: feel the same way. And here is the news we 312 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:12,840 Speaker 1: have all worked so hard to bring to you. Don't 313 00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:17,639 Speaker 1: Be a Victim Fighting Back Against America's Crime Wave a 314 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:21,679 Speaker 1: brand new book you can pre order now go to 315 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:26,560 Speaker 1: crime online dot com. This book is for everyone. It 316 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:31,560 Speaker 1: even includes how to stay safe while you travel in hotels. 317 00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:35,040 Speaker 1: If you're abroad, what do you do to make sure 318 00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:39,159 Speaker 1: you come home safely to your family. Don't Be a 319 00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:42,879 Speaker 1: Victim Fighting Back Against America's Crime Wave Available for pre 320 00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:47,920 Speaker 1: order now crime online dot Com. Pre order now and 321 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:52,440 Speaker 1: know that portions of our proceeds goes to the National 322 00:21:52,520 --> 00:22:01,840 Speaker 1: Center for Missing and Exploited Children. Crime Stories with Nancy 323 00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:05,520 Speaker 1: Grace Guys for those of you just joining us. Thank 324 00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:08,040 Speaker 1: you for being with us here at Fox Nation and 325 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:12,800 Speaker 1: series Sex and one eleven, a baby boy is found 326 00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:18,080 Speaker 1: dead with tears dried on his face. Who would do that? 327 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:22,479 Speaker 1: To renounce psychi psychologist Karen start, What does it mean 328 00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:27,399 Speaker 1: to you that this particular Cornfield ditch was chosen to 329 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:31,240 Speaker 1: discard the baby? Well, as you said, Nancy, there's no 330 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:35,200 Speaker 1: there's a good indication that whoever disposed of the baby 331 00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:39,200 Speaker 1: lives close to the series, very familiar with the Cornfield. 332 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:42,440 Speaker 1: And then if you're talking about the clothes that were 333 00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:46,159 Speaker 1: found along with the baby that sings the blanket, I 334 00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:50,720 Speaker 1: would think either somebody there took the clothes from the 335 00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:54,119 Speaker 1: mother because there's underwear with blood, whoever gave birth to 336 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:58,800 Speaker 1: the baby and buried them, you know, try to get 337 00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:01,040 Speaker 1: rid of them along with the baby, or else the 338 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:06,800 Speaker 1: mother herself may have done that, somebody who has some feeling, 339 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:10,760 Speaker 1: not enough to make sure this baby survives, but puts 340 00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:14,320 Speaker 1: a blanket on it so there's a little tenderness there 341 00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:18,040 Speaker 1: and gets rid of evidence so that no one will 342 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:20,840 Speaker 1: know that this has occurred. Okay, I'm just to JD. 343 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:25,280 Speaker 1: You're the psychologist to Daryl Cohen, former prosecutor now defense 344 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:30,040 Speaker 1: attorney practicing across the country. Daryl, have you noticed in 345 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 1: cases you prosecuted and defended, because I have in cases 346 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:37,560 Speaker 1: I prosecuted, when someone takes the time to cover the face. 347 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:42,119 Speaker 1: I had one case where a girl murdered her mother. 348 00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:46,639 Speaker 1: A nineteen ish year old girl murdered her mother and 349 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:51,800 Speaker 1: put a wick her basket over her head. All right. 350 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:55,240 Speaker 1: I've had other cases where if the person was killed outdoors, 351 00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:59,199 Speaker 1: the body would be covered in leaves, just or a 352 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:03,200 Speaker 1: blanket or a newspaper or something. And that always tells me, 353 00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:05,960 Speaker 1: And I don't know statistically why, I just know from 354 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:09,840 Speaker 1: experience that means the killer knew the victim. Because the 355 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:11,800 Speaker 1: random killer is not going to take the time to 356 00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:13,320 Speaker 1: cover up the party. They're just going to get the 357 00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:18,679 Speaker 1: hay out of there. Absolutely absolutely, it tells me that 358 00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:23,600 Speaker 1: it was mom who And obviously this is more subjective. 359 00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:27,240 Speaker 1: I'm just conjecturing more than anything else. As it was Mom, 360 00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:29,199 Speaker 1: and she may have felt that she had to do 361 00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:32,560 Speaker 1: what she did and she didn't know anything else to do. 362 00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:36,199 Speaker 1: She was in a terrible position in her life, and 363 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:40,400 Speaker 1: because of that, she is in a terrible position in 364 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:43,560 Speaker 1: her life that means be true, But I don't know 365 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:46,119 Speaker 1: how you would compare that to dying alone and naked 366 00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:49,239 Speaker 1: and the elements crying in a ditch. Oh, Nancy, this 367 00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:52,520 Speaker 1: is horrible. I am not excusing anything she did. I'm 368 00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:55,120 Speaker 1: trying to get into her head. And if I get 369 00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:59,160 Speaker 1: into her head and feel like, maybe, just maybe she 370 00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:02,199 Speaker 1: was I was thinking that she was a victim and 371 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:04,320 Speaker 1: she didn't know what to do. She had no money, 372 00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:07,640 Speaker 1: she had no place to turn, nothing there. So I 373 00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:12,280 Speaker 1: ask you about the baby, and now you're on the mom. Look, 374 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:18,360 Speaker 1: I'm not arguing about the right to choose, a woman's 375 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:20,359 Speaker 1: right to choose whether she wants to keep a baby 376 00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:23,680 Speaker 1: or not. That's not where this is about. This is 377 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:29,200 Speaker 1: about murder. The baby was born alive. Now I'm not 378 00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:33,760 Speaker 1: saying I am pro or anti abortion. That's not what 379 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:37,880 Speaker 1: I'm talking about. I'm talking about murder. And in case 380 00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:43,040 Speaker 1: you didn't know it, Daryl Cohen, I'm against it. Take 381 00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:49,680 Speaker 1: a listen to what Nancy. I'm against it. Two hungry 382 00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:52,159 Speaker 1: did I think this woman, if she did what I 383 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:55,760 Speaker 1: think she did, is despicable. It's horrendous, and you will 384 00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:59,720 Speaker 1: find her own special place at a horrible place. But 385 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:02,760 Speaker 1: I'm trying to get in our head how you believed 386 00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:06,480 Speaker 1: in hail Daryl Cohen. Guys, take a listen to see 387 00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:11,040 Speaker 1: falls police press or Detective Michael Webb speaking. We don't 388 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:13,919 Speaker 1: forget about these cases. We never do. And about ten 389 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:15,800 Speaker 1: years ago we started taking a different look on this 390 00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:18,600 Speaker 1: and see what we can do given the advancements to 391 00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:22,919 Speaker 1: technology and DNA to solve this case. It was a 392 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:25,359 Speaker 1: unique case and now we didn't have a family to 393 00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:28,320 Speaker 1: work with, to talk to to assure them that we 394 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:31,680 Speaker 1: were doing everything we can for their family because no 395 00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:35,600 Speaker 1: one came polar to this paving. Ten years ago, after 396 00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:38,920 Speaker 1: talking with some cold case investigators across the country, we 397 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:42,119 Speaker 1: talked about the best way to obtain DNA and it 398 00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:46,640 Speaker 1: would have to be from the baby himself. We learned 399 00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:50,400 Speaker 1: through a President's DNA and issue for Unidentified Human Remains 400 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:53,040 Speaker 1: that the University of North Texas was under a grant 401 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:57,520 Speaker 1: and they could assist in this. We contacted them as 402 00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:04,199 Speaker 1: well as the process of getting the baby's DNA, so 403 00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:07,960 Speaker 1: we did Cortnago, Saint Michael Cemetery and I got in 404 00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:12,960 Speaker 1: order to zoom zoom the Balio Andrew John done too. 405 00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:20,520 Speaker 1: Christine kwan cyb Bristol, Virginia. The baby was given a funeral. 406 00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:24,800 Speaker 1: I understand at Saint Michael's. Is that correct? That's correct. Yes. 407 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:27,920 Speaker 1: The community, I mean, obviously when they heard about this 408 00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:32,840 Speaker 1: horrible thing, they kind of came together and just wanted 409 00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:36,199 Speaker 1: to do something. And a bunch of people showed up 410 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:38,639 Speaker 1: for a baby that they didn't even know to give 411 00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:42,520 Speaker 1: it a funeral. I'm curious with all of that outpouring 412 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:49,840 Speaker 1: of community empathy, no one knew of a woman that 413 00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:54,240 Speaker 1: had been pregnant now suddenly wasn't Kristen at that time. 414 00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:57,080 Speaker 1: No no one came forward to report a missing baby 415 00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:00,159 Speaker 1: or they didn't have anything, And that's kind of one 416 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:03,159 Speaker 1: of the reasons that this case went cold. Joining me 417 00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:08,600 Speaker 1: right now is a special guest. She is the so 418 00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:13,320 Speaker 1: called Jane Hunter. Exactly what is that, Cheryl appoint? A 419 00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:19,520 Speaker 1: genetic genealogist, Nancy. A genetic genealogist is someone who uses 420 00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:23,360 Speaker 1: DNA that we get from direct to consumer DNA tests 421 00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:27,960 Speaker 1: to be able to figure out familial connections. We are 422 00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:31,879 Speaker 1: able to use these matches that we get from these 423 00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:34,560 Speaker 1: companies that give us a list of our matches and 424 00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:39,800 Speaker 1: we can find our shared answers the common ancestors in 425 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:44,480 Speaker 1: our lines, and we can build family trees to find 426 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:47,320 Speaker 1: the people we're looking for. To Bobby Jico and former 427 00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:51,360 Speaker 1: special agent FBI, current star Facebook series Curse of Acacor, 428 00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:56,360 Speaker 1: I'm just curious that the whole community shows up for 429 00:28:56,440 --> 00:29:00,600 Speaker 1: the little baby's funeral Saint Michael's allow as a child 430 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:06,000 Speaker 1: to be buried there, but nobody comes forward and says, hey, 431 00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:09,160 Speaker 1: I know so and so was pregnant, now she's not, 432 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:13,160 Speaker 1: and I never saw the baby. Nobody comes forward, Bobby, 433 00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:16,040 Speaker 1: she con Yeah, it's very unusual. I think the investigators 434 00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:20,000 Speaker 1: often use gatherings like that to develop sources who do 435 00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:22,880 Speaker 1: exactly what you just described and come forward because sometimes 436 00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:25,360 Speaker 1: they don't feel comfortable or you know, you know, and 437 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:27,960 Speaker 1: they don't feel comfortable coming directly to the police. But 438 00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:30,680 Speaker 1: the police do go, or they should go to those 439 00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:33,400 Speaker 1: gatherings to try to find someone in the community, because 440 00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:36,080 Speaker 1: that's where the answers lie. Exactly where you just said, 441 00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:38,680 Speaker 1: someone in the community must have known or should have 442 00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:42,400 Speaker 1: known that that that that woman was pregnant and carried 443 00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:45,760 Speaker 1: the term um. It's very difficult to hide a fact 444 00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:48,800 Speaker 1: like that in a small community, so you would think 445 00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:51,800 Speaker 1: that investigators would have scoured that that type of service, 446 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:56,960 Speaker 1: memorial service and try to find somebody you're talking about 447 00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:02,160 Speaker 1: graveside funeral, steak out to see who shows up right, 448 00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:06,440 Speaker 1: And unfortunately, sometimes that's that's where those people do congregate, 449 00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:10,240 Speaker 1: and also the mom or the killer may be there. 450 00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:31,120 Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace, a little baby who dies 451 00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:36,240 Speaker 1: of exposure in a ditch by a cornfield. How exactly 452 00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:39,800 Speaker 1: do you die of exposure? Joseph Scott Morgan, I mean 453 00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:42,920 Speaker 1: you're outside and you die. How does that happen? What 454 00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:45,040 Speaker 1: the the how does the effect of being in the 455 00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:49,320 Speaker 1: elements end up in death? Well, it's commonly referred to 456 00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:55,400 Speaker 1: as hypothermia, which means your body temperature drops well below 457 00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:59,320 Speaker 1: what is considered to be normal. You know, our normal 458 00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:03,560 Speaker 1: body temper is ninety eight point six fahrenheit. Your body 459 00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:08,480 Speaker 1: cannot maintain all of its systems if it drops, say 460 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:13,240 Speaker 1: two to three degrees below that level, and you'll see 461 00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:17,680 Speaker 1: you'll see people begin to convulse, You'll see people begin 462 00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:20,920 Speaker 1: to hallucinate. Now, you take that and that's an adult. 463 00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:25,200 Speaker 1: You take that and you magnify that tenfold relative to 464 00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:29,480 Speaker 1: a newborn, because they are so very fragible. Remember, Nancy, 465 00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:34,360 Speaker 1: this child I still had the placenta and the umbilical 466 00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:38,240 Speaker 1: cord attached. This child was alive, so there was some 467 00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:42,240 Speaker 1: type of awareness here. The child is shivering, the child 468 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:46,480 Speaker 1: is going into shock eventually. And this is not I 469 00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:49,960 Speaker 1: hate to tell you this. This wasn't a sudden death. Okay, 470 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:55,520 Speaker 1: this is a protracted, languishing event that took place with 471 00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:58,760 Speaker 1: this child. This child would have begun to feel the 472 00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:02,520 Speaker 1: effects as soon as this person deposited this poor little 473 00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:06,600 Speaker 1: creature there in this ditch, in these blankets, and so 474 00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:10,680 Speaker 1: it just kind of the icy fingers of death literally 475 00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:14,120 Speaker 1: just wrapped their hand around this baby and it took 476 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:17,440 Speaker 1: it probably took an hour for the child to dye, 477 00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:20,280 Speaker 1: I would imagine, and it would have been a horrific death. 478 00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:24,600 Speaker 1: So explain to me to Cheryl the point joining us 479 00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:29,320 Speaker 1: the gene hunter, genetic genealogist. So back when the baby 480 00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:33,480 Speaker 1: was found in the corn ditch, I assume blood and 481 00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:36,920 Speaker 1: tissues were taken. But how do you, without anyone to 482 00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:40,360 Speaker 1: compare it to, how do you go about getting some 483 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:43,560 Speaker 1: type of a DNA match. It's like fingerprints, Okay, you 484 00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:48,880 Speaker 1: find a fingerprint on a murder scene. And it's a 485 00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:52,440 Speaker 1: great fingerprint, But who do you compare it to? You 486 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:58,280 Speaker 1: run it through APHIS, which is fingerprint database, nothing. You 487 00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:02,400 Speaker 1: have to have something to compare it. Two. And then 488 00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:07,120 Speaker 1: I suddenly catch Jackie Howard and I get her drink 489 00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:09,840 Speaker 1: and I compare it, and then I find out it 490 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:11,920 Speaker 1: was her at the murder scene. But I had something 491 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:16,880 Speaker 1: to compare it too, Jackie. So with this baby's DNA, 492 00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:20,360 Speaker 1: what do you compare it? Two? When you don't have 493 00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:25,800 Speaker 1: a suspect Nancy from that crime scene, we actually had 494 00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:29,320 Speaker 1: DNA from a baby and the mother's DNA from the 495 00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:33,000 Speaker 1: articles of clothing that had blood on it, and that 496 00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:38,200 Speaker 1: DNA with the new technologies that we have now, you know, 497 00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:41,880 Speaker 1: it's very unlikely that the mother would have actually taken 498 00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:45,360 Speaker 1: a direct to consumer DNA test. I doubt that happened, 499 00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:51,560 Speaker 1: but the mother would have relatives that may have taken 500 00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:56,640 Speaker 1: those tests. And when that happens, we can You meanlie 501 00:33:56,920 --> 00:33:59,920 Speaker 1: ancestry dot com. The other day I said, forever twenty one, 502 00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:05,880 Speaker 1: that's not a DNA datamah, but ancestry dot com and 503 00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:08,600 Speaker 1: there are many other like that. One just happens to 504 00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:10,920 Speaker 1: come to mind. You're saying that maybe one of her 505 00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:15,279 Speaker 1: family members, if not her, did that, and now you 506 00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:18,800 Speaker 1: can trace the infants DNA to that family member. Is 507 00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:21,680 Speaker 1: that what you're saying? Yes, man, that's exactly what I'm saying. 508 00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:25,600 Speaker 1: Family Tree DNA Ancestry dot com twenty three and me 509 00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:31,120 Speaker 1: and as genealogist, As genetic genealogists, we use a site 510 00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:36,800 Speaker 1: called jedmatch that we upload DNA to say I tested 511 00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:41,160 Speaker 1: at Ancestry and you tested at family Tree DNA. Instead 512 00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:45,080 Speaker 1: of testing at each company, we can upload to jedmatch 513 00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:48,120 Speaker 1: and compare our results. And that is one of the 514 00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:52,320 Speaker 1: sites that we use as genetic genealogists, and law enforcement 515 00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:55,680 Speaker 1: uses to be able to find these of the DNA 516 00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:58,239 Speaker 1: that was left at a crime scene. So if you 517 00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:03,520 Speaker 1: love your DNA, let's just say ancestre dot com. Are 518 00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:06,719 Speaker 1: you telling me that that is then uploaded without your 519 00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:11,280 Speaker 1: knowledge to Jetmatch. No, ma'am, absolutely not. That has never happened. 520 00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:18,080 Speaker 1: That is a voluntary voluntary upload. Awesome. I'm working, okay, 521 00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:21,600 Speaker 1: Like I uploaded my own results there to find other 522 00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:26,800 Speaker 1: matches who tested it, other companies, And again, your DNA 523 00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:29,600 Speaker 1: code isn't shown. All we get is a list of 524 00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:33,080 Speaker 1: people that you match. Interesting. I want you to take 525 00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:42,359 Speaker 1: a listen now to Keloland Knees. Reporter Perry Great investigators 526 00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:45,279 Speaker 1: back in nineteen eighty one had the forensic foresight to 527 00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:48,759 Speaker 1: say blood DNA from baby Andrew John Doe, so that 528 00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:51,879 Speaker 1: if we do have a suspect that from later time 529 00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:56,200 Speaker 1: we could match this blood tape. It gives that person 530 00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:58,800 Speaker 1: and see whether they could be the possible or parent. 531 00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:01,840 Speaker 1: That parent would emerge thirty eight years later through a 532 00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:06,759 Speaker 1: series of DNA breakthroughs and dead ends. These cases are frustrating, disappointing. 533 00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:08,480 Speaker 1: I think you got to learn you're going to have 534 00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:11,600 Speaker 1: more failures and successes. The DNA search ramped up in 535 00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:14,040 Speaker 1: two thousand and nine when Sue falls, Police work with 536 00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:18,480 Speaker 1: researchers from North Texas University to examine evidence from baby Andrew. 537 00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:21,000 Speaker 1: The problem in this case is the rules of DNA. 538 00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:25,319 Speaker 1: We were checking a database against we didn't know who. 539 00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:28,480 Speaker 1: Police enlisted the help of another lab in Virginia, as 540 00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:32,359 Speaker 1: well as genealogy websites like ancestry dot com to piece 541 00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:35,680 Speaker 1: together branches of a family tree. We're able to continue 542 00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:39,000 Speaker 1: to build that family tree through old birth announcements, old 543 00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:42,840 Speaker 1: marriage announcements and things like that. Homing in on suspect 544 00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:46,640 Speaker 1: Teresa Bentis. Investigators conducted what's known as a trash poll 545 00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:50,359 Speaker 1: last month. They took samples from a water bottle, core's light, 546 00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:53,759 Speaker 1: beer can, and cigarette butts for the crucial DNA link 547 00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:57,399 Speaker 1: that would lead to her arrest. Wow, did you hear 548 00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:02,560 Speaker 1: that from cigarette butt? From a I think they said 549 00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:07,080 Speaker 1: beer can, a water bottle. By going through her trash, 550 00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:11,279 Speaker 1: Daryl Cohen, it's people would say, hey, hey, hey, wait, wait, wait, 551 00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:13,920 Speaker 1: why did they test her cigarette butt, her beer can, 552 00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:18,320 Speaker 1: her water bottle. If you abandon something, throw it in 553 00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:20,600 Speaker 1: the trash or put it in your trash, that's too 554 00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:24,800 Speaker 1: bad because cops can take that. There is no constitutional 555 00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:29,319 Speaker 1: protection for your belongings unless they're in a place where 556 00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:32,319 Speaker 1: you expect privacy, like your home, your car, your car 557 00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:35,520 Speaker 1: trunk you're safe, you're whatever, or a box you have 558 00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:39,880 Speaker 1: a suitcase in your trunk, that gets constitutional protections for privacy. 559 00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:43,480 Speaker 1: But if you abandon something throw it away, that's fair 560 00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:46,799 Speaker 1: game for police. Here's an example, Daryl. I remember when 561 00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:50,480 Speaker 1: the Inquirer would go through, for instance, Elizabeth Taylor or 562 00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:54,680 Speaker 1: Michael Jackson or whoever's trash, then they'd lay out, Oh look, 563 00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:58,960 Speaker 1: Elizabeth Taylor had ten points of chunky monkey, and that 564 00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:02,799 Speaker 1: would be the article. It's abandoned and once it goes 565 00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:06,040 Speaker 1: out to the street, it's fair game. So that's how 566 00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:09,040 Speaker 1: the cops got ahold of her cigarette. But said beer 567 00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:14,400 Speaker 1: cans exactly great, it was expanding a little more from you, Darrell, 568 00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:17,560 Speaker 1: really all right, well, exactly means it was. She gave 569 00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:21,239 Speaker 1: it up. It is no longer hers. She has no right, 570 00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:24,719 Speaker 1: she has no right of privacy. It is gone. It 571 00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:30,040 Speaker 1: is gone. It is gone. And that's helpful. So you know, Jack, 572 00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:32,680 Speaker 1: you watch out where you throw all those beer cans. Um, 573 00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:37,439 Speaker 1: So sheryla point. How did they hone in on her? 574 00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:41,439 Speaker 1: So Nancy? Once they had this DNA sample in what's 575 00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:47,640 Speaker 1: called a SNIF file, the genetic genealogists were actually able 576 00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:53,680 Speaker 1: to UM through the DNA matches, find connections and build 577 00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:59,680 Speaker 1: a family tree. And like UM, we use obituaries, We 578 00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:06,719 Speaker 1: use different sites to find living people and it's basically 579 00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:10,640 Speaker 1: an investigation of finding out who belongs in the family 580 00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:15,720 Speaker 1: tree and got it. We look for suspects and find 581 00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:20,200 Speaker 1: who they are. To Christian Kwain Kate wa n what 582 00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:25,120 Speaker 1: has become of the mom, Teresa rose bent Us. So 583 00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:30,080 Speaker 1: the mom, of course, was brought to the police station 584 00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:33,360 Speaker 1: to do an interview, and the police affidavit, if you 585 00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:35,800 Speaker 1: read it, has a lot of information at it about 586 00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:41,600 Speaker 1: what she says, but basically she was arrested for that. 587 00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:47,760 Speaker 1: The mom in this case, Teresa rose Bentus, now fifty seven, 588 00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:51,120 Speaker 1: charged in the death of a baby found in a 589 00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:56,839 Speaker 1: ditch thirty eight years ago. Police using DNA of cigarettes 590 00:39:56,880 --> 00:40:00,560 Speaker 1: and beer cans to track back to Teresa ro has bentus. 591 00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:04,320 Speaker 1: The reality this woman now charged in the death of 592 00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:11,520 Speaker 1: a baby. Justice delayed, but not justice denied. Nancy Grace 593 00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:14,040 Speaker 1: Crime Story signing off Goodbye friend,