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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody.

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Speaker 2: It's me, Debbie Kamau Bell. Welcome to episode 22 of

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Speaker 2: my podcast, Who's With Me? That is, of course, based

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Speaker 2: on my Substack of the same name, also called Who's

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Speaker 2: With Me? If you want to keep up with everything

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Speaker 2: I've got going on, please follow me on Substack because

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Speaker 2: that's the way to disrupt the algorithm because maybe you

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Speaker 2: stumbled across me today. Maybe you haven't seen me in

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Speaker 2: a while. The algorithm doesn't care. But if you follow

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Speaker 2: me on Substack, you will get an email that says

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Speaker 2: everything I'm doing.

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Speaker 1: Like, for example.

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Speaker 2: Coming out October 27th, which is very shortly, my debut

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Speaker 2: children's book with my friend Adam Mansbach and author Brianna

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Speaker 2: Chambers called Rock, Paper, Scissors, Cheese. Next week, I will

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Speaker 2: show you a copy of the book, the actual book, Rock, Paper, Scissors, Cheese.

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Speaker 2: They sent us some early copies. They sent us five.

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Speaker 2: Two of them have disappeared with my kids. So I

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Speaker 2: have three left. But yeah, so next week, I'll show

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Speaker 2: you that. Today's guest is Colin Kaepernick. It's not often

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Speaker 2: you can say my guest needs no introduction, you know,

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Speaker 2: a la the expression and also the David Letterman show

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Speaker 2: on Netflix. But what do you need to say? He

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Speaker 2: ex-NFL quarterback, maybe one day future NFL quarterback, walking civil

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Speaker 2: rights icon, number one New York Times selling author. His

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Speaker 2: brand new book, The Perilous Fight, is out now. And

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Speaker 2: it went to number one on the New York Times

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Speaker 2: bestseller list. It is his first memoir. I've listened to

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Speaker 2: the whole thing. He reads it, which I appreciate. A

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Speaker 2: lot of times books aren't read by the authors, but

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Speaker 2: Colin reads it, and he really clears up a lot

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Speaker 2: of things that we thought we knew about him. If

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Speaker 2: you just followed the news, things that he sort of

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Speaker 2: let go that were lies that he now clears up.

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Speaker 2: It's a great read and very inspirational. Again, we'll talk

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Speaker 2: about that later. I should say this was taped live

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Speaker 2: at one of Colin's book events that was shown in

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Speaker 2: his book. It was taped live in Berkeley, California at

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Speaker 2: the Black Repertory Theater. in association with the National Association

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Speaker 2: of Black Booksellers and Marcus Books, which is a black

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Speaker 2: bookstore in Oakland and the oldest black bookstore in the nation.

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Speaker 2: It was extra black in there, everybody. It was a

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Speaker 2: great night in Berkeley. This is a live event, so

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Speaker 2: it's going to look differently. They actually sat people on

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Speaker 2: stage around us, so it has old Comic View vibes

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Speaker 2: on BET. But we had a great conversation. At the end,

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Speaker 2: you'll notice I didn't ask Colin Kaepernick, who's with me,

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Speaker 2: Because I knew he had about 200 books he needed

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Speaker 2: to sign. He took pictures with everybody. He took everybody

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Speaker 2: in the audience. He stood on stage afterwards and took

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Speaker 2: pictures with them and had their books signed. Nobody does that. Nobody,

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Speaker 2: especially at that level of fame. I mean, people do

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Speaker 2: it when you have 12 people in the audience. But

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Speaker 2: he had over 200 people and he took pictures with everybody.

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Speaker 2: So at the end of the interview, I was like,

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Speaker 2: let's just get this guy on to his next thing.

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Speaker 2: But I'm pretty sure Colin Kaepernick is with me. But

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Speaker 2: I'll ask him next time I see him. I don't

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Speaker 2: see him that often. Anyway, we've said too much.

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Speaker 3: Whew.

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Speaker 2: Hmm.

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Speaker 1: So, yeah.

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Speaker 2: So last week I talked about how I was going

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Speaker 2: to have a conversation on Substack with author Christopher Pepper,

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Speaker 2: co-author of the book Talk to Your Boys. He's a

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Speaker 2: health teacher in California. So he talks about sex education

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Speaker 2: in the class as a health teacher. And we had

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Speaker 2: a conversation on Substack. Here's an excerpt.

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Speaker 4: The big question I think that the Cornell case is

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Speaker 4: bringing up is like, why didn't somebody step in? You had...

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Speaker 4: people who were in this building seeing this um sexual

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Speaker 4: situation get out of hand and um and so there

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Speaker 4: were people physically present who could have stepped in then

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Speaker 4: there was it went out on phones people getting messages

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Speaker 4: on their phone uh so there's a lot more people

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Speaker 4: who could step in and nobody did and yeah it

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Speaker 4: was all men yeah so that's that's why we're saying

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Speaker 4: like why do we need to talk to boys about

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Speaker 4: this it's because the boys we have right now are

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Speaker 4: going to be men It's easy to imagine them in

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Speaker 4: that kind of situation in the future where they have

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Speaker 4: an opportunity to step in. It's also like that can

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Speaker 4: be a hard thing to do if you're worried about

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Speaker 4: your honor, your friends, things like that. So people need

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Speaker 4: practice doing it and they need some messages from the

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Speaker 4: adults saying, hey, this is what I expect you to do.

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Speaker 4: This is what the moral and ethical thing is to do.

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Speaker 4: Let's read some scenarios. Let's practice. Let's actually talk about this.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so that conversation is on my Substack. Again, you

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Speaker 2: can go to my Substack.

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Speaker 1: It's free. You can follow the thing.

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Speaker 2: It was a conversation, as you can see, about consent

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Speaker 2: and about how men can be better leaders, men who

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Speaker 2: do not want to contribute to rape culture or hopefully

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Speaker 2: want to dismantle rape culture, can do a better job.

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Speaker 1: It was a great, free-flowing conversation.

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Speaker 2: I have a lot of conversations that are all on

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Speaker 2: the podcast, but I do want to make sure you

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Speaker 2: know about those.

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Speaker 1: If you want to check them out.

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Speaker 2: And again, Substack is a great place to check out

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Speaker 2: some of my other conversations that did not make the

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Speaker 2: podcast or not. Some things are so ripped from the headlines,

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Speaker 2: you just want to get them out quickly. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: so please check that out. And it's interesting because, as again,

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Speaker 2: I talked about last week here on Who's With Me

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Speaker 2: about the whole idea of rape culture and how some

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Speaker 2: men are demons and just about how we dismantle it.

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Speaker 2: Then I was actually at the Othering and Belonging Institute

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Speaker 2: conference in Louisville, Kentucky, Muhammad Ali's hometown. And it's a

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Speaker 2: conversation I've been in the middle of a lot recently,

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Speaker 2: and I'm happy to be in the middle of it.

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Speaker 2: And it's just clear that we have to stay in

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Speaker 2: the middle of it because at the same time that

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Speaker 2: me and lots of other people are posting about how

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Speaker 2: we need to do better with consent and how we

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Speaker 2: need to do better in society with consequences and repercussions,

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Speaker 2: there's people out there pushing the opposite. There's people out

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Speaker 2: there pushing the opposite. And it's also really painful when

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Speaker 2: you see women putting the responsibility for rape on women.

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Speaker 1: Megyn Kelly, who is an absolute demon. did some of that.

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Speaker 2: I saw somebody else from Fox News, Rachel Duffy Campos,

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Speaker 2: I think her name is. She's formerly, I think, of

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Speaker 2: MTV reality show, but now is a Fox News head,

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Speaker 2: and her husband is, I think, head of the Department

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Speaker 2: of Transportation. But anyway, pushing out, saying it's women's responsibility.

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Speaker 2: I think she said women need to be held to

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Speaker 2: a higher standard. And it's just bad times.

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Speaker 1: Let me be clear. We have enough.

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Speaker 2: Problems going on in society right now Like literally, I

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Speaker 2: had to call my dad last week because I was like, hey,

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Speaker 2: sounds like there's a hurricane headed to you. And then

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Speaker 2: when I was in Stanford, Connecticut, the North, the Northeaster

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Speaker 2: was hitting and people were like getting afraid because the

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Speaker 2: Northeaster was going to hit. And there's just this, you know,

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Speaker 2: the El Nino's happening, you know, like Mother Nature provides

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Speaker 2: us with enough problems. We should be able to figure

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Speaker 2: out how to not have a society that encourages fans

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Speaker 2: of flames of rape culture. and also turns a blind

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Speaker 2: eye to men's demonry. And people's demonry, but we're talking

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Speaker 2: about men's demonry right now. I feel pressured to try

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Speaker 2: to do more. Not that I don't have enough jobs,

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Speaker 2: but especially in this time when we have a pedophile

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Speaker 2: in the White House.

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump is an adjudicated rapist. Never forget that.

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Speaker 2: I feel like the press, whenever they introduce Trump, just say,

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Speaker 2: adjudicated rapist, President Trump.

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Speaker 1: He's an adjudicated rapist. He has been adjudicated through his E.G.

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Speaker 1: and Carol's civil suit. So there you go.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and in the middle of all that, Shane Gillis

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Speaker 2: was the host of SNL. I hate being the comedy sheriff.

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Speaker 2: I've written a lot about stand-up comedians, especially because the

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Speaker 2: whole Rogan sphere is just so prevalent. And Shane likes

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Speaker 2: to sort of pretend like he's not in the Rogan sphere,

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Speaker 2: but he's in the Rogan sphere. He's just like the

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Speaker 2: cool frat guy. I'm different than the other frat guys.

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Speaker 2: And I'll say this. Shane has hosted SNL three times.

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Speaker 2: I've seen Shane be very funny as a stand-up comedian

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Speaker 2: many times. And you don't have to think every comedian

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Speaker 2: is funny. If this thumbnail says Kamau Bell defends Shane Gillis,

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Speaker 2: I'm firing everybody on my side. But it's just the

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Speaker 2: idea that something about him hosting SNL, his monologues, he's

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Speaker 2: done three now, which is also he's hosted three times.

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Speaker 1: He's a very successful comedian.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if you know, he just had the

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Speaker 2: biggest solo comedy show in history adjudicated by the Guinness

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Speaker 2: Book of World Records.

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Speaker 1: He sold over 70,000 tickets, 76,000, I don't know, tickets.

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Speaker 2: In Philadelphia at the, at the football stadium, biggest solo

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Speaker 2: comedy show of all time.

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Speaker 1: So he's a very popular comedian. So they'll be like,

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Speaker 1: I don't like Shane Gillis. Well, it's great. He's selling

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Speaker 1: out tickets.

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Speaker 2: But again, you can, comedy is subjective, but all three

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Speaker 2: of his SNL monologues have all been notable because they

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Speaker 2: have all not gone great. And the third one he

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Speaker 2: did this weekend was another one that's giving a lot

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Speaker 2: of pushback and not just pushback from people online. It's like,

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Speaker 2: if you listen, if you watch it on TV, it

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Speaker 2: doesn't go great. And you know, he's, he's a comedian

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Speaker 2: who knows how to kill, but, there's something about in

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Speaker 2: those moments, it feels like Shane is playing what we

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Speaker 2: call in standup comedy, the back of the room. He's

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Speaker 2: not playing the audience in the room and he's not

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Speaker 2: playing the audience at home. He's playing his friends. Like

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Speaker 2: in his newest, in his newest monologue, at one point

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Speaker 2: he name checks Joe Rogan and Theo Vaughn, which just

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Speaker 2: feels like it's not, they weren't necessary to the joke necessarily.

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Speaker 2: Like it just feels like he's just sort of like

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Speaker 2: once the, once the online fans watching his fans be like,

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Speaker 2: he said Joe Rogan. It's like maybe he, You know,

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Speaker 2: he's like some sort of, it's like he's playing bingo.

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Speaker 2: Can I say Joe Rogan? I'll say the Yvonne. And

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Speaker 2: it's funny when he said Joe Rogan in the, in

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Speaker 2: on SNL and his monologue, he said Joe Rogan and

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Speaker 2: he just took a pause. Like there was a slight pause,

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Speaker 2: like waiting for the applause of the audience and they

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Speaker 2: didn't applause.

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Speaker 1: And he's getting a lot of push right now.

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Speaker 2: Cause one of his jokes is about, as he says,

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Speaker 2: women who go to the gym dress like whores. It

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Speaker 2: just seems like a, Weird time to make that joke.

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Speaker 2: Not that that joke is ever, like, that joke is

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Speaker 2: as old as women going to the gym. You know,

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Speaker 2: he talks about how women's pants, the way they dress now.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I'm old enough to remember when they talked

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Speaker 2: about women wearing, like, Lycra and spandex. Like, that joke

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Speaker 2: is as old as the first time a woman went

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Speaker 2: to the gym. Some guy had something to say about it.

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Speaker 2: So it just feels like it's beneath him, but it's

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Speaker 2: maybe not beneath the audience he's playing through at home

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Speaker 2: so it just and he's getting a lot of pushback

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Speaker 2: for it and for me it just feels like man

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Speaker 2: if you're about to go on a national platform and

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Speaker 2: you're about to perform you know seven minutes of stand-up

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Speaker 2: and you read the news and and shane often talks

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Speaker 2: about things having the news It seems like you'd be like,

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Speaker 2: is this the time to tell my women dress like

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Speaker 2: whores joke? Because he's got a lot of material. Maybe

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Speaker 2: he thought it was. Just seems weird as we're having

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Speaker 2: a national conversation about, or trying to, some of us

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Speaker 2: trying to have a national conversation about consent and rape

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Speaker 2: and rape culture. Seems like that joke, which is again,

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Speaker 2: well-worn material instead of comedy. You could just swap it

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Speaker 2: out with another one. but again, I'm not, I hate

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Speaker 2: being the sheriff of comedy. I just, I just, I

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Speaker 2: guess I just want us to, I want us to

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Speaker 2: have a better conversation about and get to some better consequential,

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Speaker 2: actual actionable results for, so that we don't have more

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Speaker 2: rape in this world and in this country and on

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Speaker 2: college campuses, especially where, you know, people are supposed to

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Speaker 2: be safe because the college is supposed to protect them.

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Speaker 2: And that, that didn't seem helpful to that. But again,

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Speaker 2: It just seems like there's a better chess move there

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Speaker 2: than women who go to the gym or dress like whores. Anyway,

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Speaker 2: here's a fun piece of trivia that I often share

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Speaker 2: whenever I talk about Saturday Night Live and who's hosted

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Speaker 2: and who hasn't hosted. Shane Gillis has hosted three times.

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Speaker 2: Wanda Sykes has never hosted Saturday Night Live.

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Speaker 1: Sit with that.

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Speaker 2: I don't know Wanda personally to know if she's ever

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Speaker 2: been offered and turned it down, but that's not really

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Speaker 2: a thing that a comedian would do.

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Speaker 1: If you got offered SNL, you wouldn't really.

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Speaker 2: turn it down I just can't imagine because even if

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Speaker 2: you don't like the show it certainly sells tickets you

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Speaker 2: know but I can't confirm that but it is certainly

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Speaker 2: strange that there's lots of people who never hosted Saturday

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Speaker 2: Night Live who you feel like should have hosted Saturday

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Speaker 2: Night Live but for me Wanda Sykes is the one

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Speaker 2: she recently just released a new Netflix special called Legacy

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Speaker 2: go check it out it's great of course because Wanda

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Speaker 2: Sykes is always great and I just think about it

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Speaker 2: a lot we talk about like man Shane Gillis is

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Speaker 2: back on SNL again Wanda Sykes has never hosted Saturday

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Speaker 2: Night Live. Anyway, on to a guy who seems to

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Speaker 2: be very particular about the moves he makes, especially when

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Speaker 2: it comes to social justice. Let's talk about Colin Kaepernick. Again,

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Speaker 2: Colin Kaepernick seems like he needs no introduction. I'm honored

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Speaker 2: to have gotten to know him a very little bit.

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Speaker 2: We first met in an event we did at Nike

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Speaker 2: several years ago around Juneteenth. I brought a couple of

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Speaker 2: my kids there. He was very nice to my daughters. Uh,

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Speaker 2: you know, it was just, he's just a very solid,

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Speaker 2: thoughtful individual. I guess I just, I'm not even trying

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Speaker 2: to feel like I'm condescending by saying all these things

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Speaker 2: about him, but he's just for a guy who went

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Speaker 2: through what he went through, he is incredibly open and

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Speaker 2: good humor. Uh, and by I say what he went

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Speaker 2: through real quickly, he was, he decided to, as we know,

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Speaker 2: but maybe there's people out there who don't know. Uh,

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Speaker 2: I think it was the 20, In 2016, when he

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Speaker 2: was a quarterback for the San Francisco 49ers, he was

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Speaker 2: a backup quarterback. He had spent some time reading books

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Speaker 2: during the offseason, some books about the history of black

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Speaker 2: folks in this country. He talked about this during the podcast.

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Speaker 2: He read the autobiography of Malcolm X and some other books.

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Speaker 2: And he lists them when we talk about it later.

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Speaker 2: And he decided he didn't want to stand for the

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Speaker 2: national anthem anymore. And so for a couple of preseason games,

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Speaker 2: he sat on a Gatorade cooler during the national anthem.

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Speaker 1: And nobody really noticed it. It wasn't a big deal.

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Speaker 2: And then Eric Reid, who he talks about here, noticed it,

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Speaker 2: who was a fellow player on the 49ers, and said,

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Speaker 2: what are you doing?

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Speaker 1: What's going on? Black player. And Colin explained.

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Speaker 2: He said, okay, great. How about you kneel and I'll

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Speaker 2: kneel with you? Because I just think that would be

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Speaker 2: a better look than sitting. And kneeling shows more respect

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Speaker 2: and shows you're doing something intentional as opposed to just

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Speaker 2: sitting on a Gatorade cooler. So Colin said yes, and

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Speaker 2: they started kneeling. And that's when America went apeshit. America

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Speaker 2: had no chill. By America, I mean the forces in

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Speaker 2: power in America, white supremacy in America went apeshit. And eventually,

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Speaker 2: Colin was out of the league, and he sued the league.

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Speaker 2: saying they colluded against him to prevent him from getting

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Speaker 2: a new job. He won that suit. And we talk

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Speaker 2: about that because there's ideas that Colin has a non-disparagement clause,

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Speaker 2: which we make clear. We talk about his beef with Jay-Z,

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Speaker 2: which is called beef is ridiculous. Uh, we talk about

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Speaker 2: his life growing up in the parts of California that

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Speaker 2: I refer to Texas, California. He grew up in Turlock,

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Speaker 2: California and hung out a lot in Modesto, California and

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Speaker 2: how he had defined his black community in those spots. And,

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Speaker 2: and a lot of it is around hair. So we

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Speaker 2: talk a lot about Colin's hair. Uh, you know, it

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Speaker 2: was a great free flowing conversation and Colin, I asked

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Speaker 2: him before we talked, is there anything you don't want

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Speaker 2: to talk about? And he said, no, we can talk

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Speaker 2: about anything. And we talked about lots of things and

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Speaker 2: I hope to talk to him again. Uh, and I

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Speaker 2: know there's a lot of Colin interviews out there, but

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Speaker 2: we also, we talk about things I haven't seen him

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Speaker 2: talk about a lot. We talk about being a black

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Speaker 2: kid who's adopted by a white family. And that seems

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Speaker 2: to be a recurring theme in my podcast, just cause

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Speaker 2: I have a lot of trans racially adopted people.

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Speaker 1: In my life.

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Speaker 2: Um, Yes, we talk about his, and he writes in

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Speaker 2: the book about the difficulties of his white family loving him,

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Speaker 2: but not understanding how to love his blackness.

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Speaker 1: And so we've had some very frank discussions about that.

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Speaker 2: And again, this was recorded during his book tour for

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Speaker 2: his brand new memoir, The Perilous Fight, which recently went

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Speaker 2: number one on the New York Times bestseller list.

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Speaker 1: It's a great book. Pick it up.

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Speaker 3: Enjoy.

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Speaker 2: Hey, thanks for watching an episode of Who's With Me.

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Speaker 2: If you're on YouTube, please like and subscribe, share, hit

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Speaker 2: that hype button. I hear it makes all the difference.

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Speaker 2: Please like, subscribe, share, hit the hype button.

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Speaker 1: Thank you.

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Speaker 3: How's everyone doing today?

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Speaker 2: Well, I've asked you, how are you doing today, sir?

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Speaker 3: I'm doing good. This is amazing. It's always great to

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Speaker 3: be back in the Bay.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yes.

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Speaker 3: It's great to be back.

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Speaker 2: When we were backstage, I asked you if you considered

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Speaker 2: this to be a home game. Oh, definitely. Okay, okay.

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Speaker 3: Coming back to the Bay is like, all right, I

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Speaker 3: can take a deep breath out. This is home.

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Speaker 1: Oh, nice.

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Speaker 2: Well, we feel the same way. I start by, I

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Speaker 2: want to give you, I give the people I talk

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Speaker 2: to some flowers because I appreciate you being here. With you,

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Speaker 2: it is pretty easy to give you your flowers. So

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Speaker 2: I could say many things, but the thing I want

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Speaker 2: to say to you right now is thank you for

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Speaker 2: this book. Because this book, and I listened to the

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Speaker 2: whole thing. I listened to you read it to me

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Speaker 2: on Audible, so I recommend that. But thank you for

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Speaker 2: this book. Thank you for reading it in your voice.

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Speaker 2: Because this book does a great job of clearing up

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Speaker 2: some things that we maybe thought we knew, but we

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Speaker 2: had never heard directly from you. And we'll talk about

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Speaker 2: some of that stuff tonight. So first of all, thank

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Speaker 2: you for this book. Give it up for the book, everybody.

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Speaker 3: Also, I'm going to give you some flowers.

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Speaker 2: Nope, nope.

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Speaker 1: Okay, we don't have time.

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Speaker 3: Thank you for all the work that you're doing, because

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Speaker 3: we need your voice. So thank you.

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Speaker 2: I appreciate it. I appreciate it. Thank you, civil rights icon.

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Speaker 2: Not joking at all. Not joking at all. And then

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Speaker 2: the other thing I want to thank you about, because

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Speaker 2: this feels very special, thank you for being outside.

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Speaker 1: Because you are outside right now.

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Speaker 2: Every time I open my phone on Instagram, you're on

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Speaker 2: somebody else's podcast. and across all the smoke and also

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00:17:56,834 --> 00:17:59,904
Speaker 2: from all podcasts. You seem to be podcast agnostic right now.

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Speaker 2: You are out there telling your story. And I know

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Speaker 2: that doesn't necessarily, you don't always put yourself out there

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Speaker 2: that way. And so it feels really special that not

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Speaker 2: only do we get to read your story, we get

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Speaker 2: to hear you tell it in lots of different formats

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Speaker 2: from a lot of different audiences. So thank you for

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Speaker 2: being outside.

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Speaker 3: We like being outside every once in a while.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, no, no, I know. I'm not saying you

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Speaker 2: don't like being outside, but you're really outside right now.

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Speaker 2: And in fact, he is so much outside that it

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Speaker 2: was just announced today that your book, The Prayerless Fight,

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Speaker 2: is the number one bestseller on the New York Times

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Speaker 2: bestseller list.

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Speaker 1: Congratulations.

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Speaker 3: Thank you. And thank you to all of you. I mean,

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Speaker 3: that doesn't happen without all of the support from all

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Speaker 3: of you. And I would say more importantly, the support

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Speaker 3: from people over the last 10 years. as we've been

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Speaker 3: doing work in communities, as we've been trying to build

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Speaker 3: the movement and address issues directly in our communities. We

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Speaker 3: aren't here today if it isn't for all of the

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Speaker 3: people that are doing work every day in the communities

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Speaker 3: and being able to build and collaborate with them. So

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Speaker 3: thank all of you and thank you for everyone that's

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Speaker 3: been doing that work as well.

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Speaker 1: For sure, for sure. Thank you.

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Speaker 2: I also, let's start here because I was reading your book.

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Speaker 2: The thing that I was always struck by, we're going

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Speaker 2: to go straight to the meat of this. We're going

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Speaker 2: to page 181. We'll maybe go back a little bit.

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Speaker 2: The thing that I was always struck by by you

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Speaker 2: is when you gave your quote to Steve Weiss, and

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Speaker 2: we can talk about that in a second, that it

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Speaker 2: was so succinct and clear. And I think the thing

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Speaker 2: that we just didn't know that you were that guy.

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Speaker 2: And I want to read this quote out loud because

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Speaker 2: I think we've heard it a million times, but I

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Speaker 2: just want to read it out loud again. I'm not

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Speaker 2: going to stand up to show pride in a flag

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Speaker 2: for a country that oppresses black people and people of color.

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Speaker 2: To me, this is bigger than football. It would be

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Speaker 2: selfish on my part to look the other way. There

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Speaker 2: are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave

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Speaker 2: and getting.

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Speaker 1: Away with murder. Yes. so I'm a writer and that's

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Speaker 1: good writing.

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Speaker 2: Not that you need to hear from me but did

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Speaker 2: you have that like ready to go did you know

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Speaker 2: that's exactly what you were going.

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Speaker 3: To say no that was years of reading years of

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Speaker 3: understanding and in that moment when asked why I wasn't standing,

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Speaker 3: it was so clear to me why I wasn't. And

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Speaker 3: also the implications around it, that conversation of it being

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Speaker 3: bigger than football is also an understanding of historically what

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00:20:35,674 --> 00:20:38,494
Speaker 3: has happened to athletes and what has happened to us

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Speaker 3: more broadly when we speak out against issues directly in

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Speaker 3: relation to black and brown communities. So it wasn't something

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Speaker 3: that I had fully ready to go, was everything that

431
00:20:51,694 --> 00:20:54,594
Speaker 3: I had been studying leading into that moment that led

432
00:20:54,614 --> 00:20:54,914
Speaker 3: to that.

433
00:20:56,034 --> 00:20:57,634
Speaker 2: And one of the things you do clear up in

434
00:20:57,654 --> 00:20:59,394
Speaker 2: the book, because so much of this stuff I think

435
00:20:59,434 --> 00:21:02,074
Speaker 2: we all followed the story. It was a huge news story.

436
00:21:02,914 --> 00:21:05,114
Speaker 2: But some things we probably connected our own dots, and

437
00:21:05,134 --> 00:21:07,334
Speaker 2: then some things we were lied to by other people

438
00:21:07,374 --> 00:21:08,754
Speaker 2: at the time about what happened, and I want to

439
00:21:08,774 --> 00:21:13,214
Speaker 2: get into all that. But talk about Steve Weiss, the

440
00:21:13,254 --> 00:21:16,274
Speaker 2: reporter who pulled you aside, because I think even that

441
00:21:16,454 --> 00:21:19,384
Speaker 2: is an extra special thing that I wasn't aware of.

442
00:21:20,434 --> 00:21:24,754
Speaker 3: Oh, man. Well, this is also thinking about Steve Weiss

443
00:21:24,794 --> 00:21:28,354
Speaker 3: in that moment. It's why black reporters matter and are

444
00:21:28,394 --> 00:21:34,714
Speaker 3: so important. Because in this moment, he understood the implications

445
00:21:35,644 --> 00:21:38,904
Speaker 3: of what I was going to be stepping into. And

446
00:21:39,824 --> 00:21:43,304
Speaker 3: he didn't ask publicly in front of everybody. He asked

447
00:21:43,324 --> 00:21:44,824
Speaker 3: to be able to talk to me on the side.

448
00:21:44,844 --> 00:21:47,604
Speaker 3: He was like, hey, if no one else asks about this,

449
00:21:48,084 --> 00:21:49,284
Speaker 3: can I talk to you on the side?

450
00:21:49,644 --> 00:21:51,464
Speaker 2: This is after you had taken a knee. You had

451
00:21:51,504 --> 00:21:53,554
Speaker 2: sat down on the Gatorade cooler.

452
00:21:53,774 --> 00:21:54,054
Speaker 3: Yes.

453
00:21:54,334 --> 00:21:56,574
Speaker 2: And this was the third game that you had finally,

454
00:21:57,034 --> 00:21:59,454
Speaker 2: if I remember correctly, that you started taking a knee.

455
00:22:00,134 --> 00:22:02,654
Speaker 3: Yes, this is the third game that I've been sitting.

456
00:22:02,674 --> 00:22:05,184
Speaker 3: And this is the first time that people had identified

457
00:22:05,224 --> 00:22:07,864
Speaker 3: I was sitting. It was also the first game I

458
00:22:07,884 --> 00:22:10,604
Speaker 3: was coming back from my three surgeries and stepping on

459
00:22:10,644 --> 00:22:15,744
Speaker 3: the field. So he pulls me to the side. He's like, hey,

460
00:22:15,764 --> 00:22:18,114
Speaker 3: I want to ask you about this. Can you tell

461
00:22:18,154 --> 00:22:20,874
Speaker 3: me a little bit about Like, why aren't you standing

462
00:22:20,954 --> 00:22:24,754
Speaker 3: for the anthem? Is there anything there? And I gave

463
00:22:24,794 --> 00:22:30,354
Speaker 3: him that response. And in that conversation, he also had

464
00:22:30,414 --> 00:22:38,184
Speaker 3: a perspective of, well, are you aware what comes with this? Like,

465
00:22:38,464 --> 00:22:40,164
Speaker 3: do you know what's on the other side of this?

466
00:22:41,584 --> 00:22:44,404
Speaker 3: And I was fully aware of what the potential was.

467
00:22:45,144 --> 00:22:48,594
Speaker 3: You never know how that actually plays out. But Looking

468
00:22:48,694 --> 00:22:53,594
Speaker 3: back on that moment, how he approached that in many

469
00:22:53,654 --> 00:22:57,513
Speaker 3: ways was, hey, I want to make sure you're protected

470
00:22:57,854 --> 00:22:59,374
Speaker 3: and I want to make sure I'm looking out for

471
00:22:59,414 --> 00:23:03,754
Speaker 3: you is another black man in this space. And having

472
00:23:03,794 --> 00:23:07,144
Speaker 3: an understanding and perspective that may be a little different.

473
00:23:07,504 --> 00:23:10,444
Speaker 3: Steve's a little bit older than me. So having a

474
00:23:10,464 --> 00:23:12,684
Speaker 3: little bit of that mentorship in that moment, too, of.

475
00:23:14,264 --> 00:23:15,364
Speaker 3: I understand what you're saying.

476
00:23:15,644 --> 00:23:15,924
Speaker 1: Also.

477
00:23:17,414 --> 00:23:20,154
Speaker 3: Here's the knowledge that I have on this. And I

478
00:23:20,174 --> 00:23:22,074
Speaker 3: just want to make sure you're aware before I put

479
00:23:22,114 --> 00:23:24,744
Speaker 3: this out there. And he asked, like, are you good

480
00:23:24,784 --> 00:23:28,524
Speaker 3: if I put this out? So I think that moment

481
00:23:28,564 --> 00:23:31,724
Speaker 3: becomes really important. Just having some of that insight of,

482
00:23:32,064 --> 00:23:34,764
Speaker 3: you know, someone's looking out for you, even in a

483
00:23:34,804 --> 00:23:36,964
Speaker 3: moment where they could have taken the approach of I'm

484
00:23:37,004 --> 00:23:38,634
Speaker 3: just going to exploit this and get as much as

485
00:23:38,714 --> 00:23:41,644
Speaker 3: I can. for my own personal benefit, that's not how

486
00:23:41,684 --> 00:23:42,804
Speaker 3: we approach that conversation.

487
00:23:43,024 --> 00:23:45,464
Speaker 2: First of all, we can highlight Black Reporters Matter. I

488
00:23:45,504 --> 00:23:52,744
Speaker 2: think that's important to say again. He came to you

489
00:23:52,804 --> 00:23:55,544
Speaker 2: as like, because on some level, he might just want

490
00:23:55,564 --> 00:23:58,004
Speaker 2: to get the story. But he also saw you as

491
00:23:58,044 --> 00:24:00,124
Speaker 2: a black man. He's like, if I put out there,

492
00:24:00,224 --> 00:24:03,324
Speaker 2: are you ready for that? And if you had said no,

493
00:24:03,364 --> 00:24:04,984
Speaker 2: he might have been like, all right. He would have

494
00:24:05,184 --> 00:24:06,704
Speaker 2: said something else. Yeah.

495
00:24:07,084 --> 00:24:10,294
Speaker 3: To me, it was very clear. I was like, I'm

496
00:24:10,314 --> 00:24:11,954
Speaker 3: going to make sure I'm looking out for you in

497
00:24:11,994 --> 00:24:15,834
Speaker 3: this moment because I've had other interactions that are not that.

498
00:24:17,754 --> 00:24:18,974
Speaker 1: We'll talk about some of that, I'm sure.

499
00:24:20,254 --> 00:24:22,864
Speaker 2: Because I do think it's important because, yes, black reporters matter,

500
00:24:23,104 --> 00:24:27,384
Speaker 2: but black community matters more than black reporters matter. And

501
00:24:27,424 --> 00:24:29,624
Speaker 2: he came to you as a fellow black man saying, like, hey,

502
00:24:29,644 --> 00:24:33,624
Speaker 2: just before we do this. So moving on from there,

503
00:24:33,644 --> 00:24:37,184
Speaker 2: so shout out to Steve Weiss. I've told the story wrong.

504
00:24:38,844 --> 00:24:40,804
Speaker 2: And so when you told the story that how it

505
00:24:40,844 --> 00:24:42,284
Speaker 2: actually happened, I was shocked.

506
00:24:42,344 --> 00:24:43,304
Speaker 1: I was like, is he sure?

507
00:24:43,324 --> 00:24:47,744
Speaker 2: Because I know I've told this story. And I want

508
00:24:47,784 --> 00:24:49,614
Speaker 2: you to clear it up here because these are things

509
00:24:49,654 --> 00:24:51,154
Speaker 2: in the books. But I think it's just reasons to

510
00:24:51,174 --> 00:24:52,494
Speaker 2: read the book because there's a million things in the

511
00:24:52,514 --> 00:24:56,274
Speaker 2: book like this. I told the story that Colin Kaepernick

512
00:24:56,614 --> 00:25:00,054
Speaker 2: met a veteran, a white veteran. And there's a picture

513
00:25:00,094 --> 00:25:02,414
Speaker 2: of the two of them that is internet searchable. And

514
00:25:02,474 --> 00:25:05,734
Speaker 2: that white veteran said, I don't think you should sit.

515
00:25:05,754 --> 00:25:08,234
Speaker 2: I think you should kneel. That's more respectful. And I've

516
00:25:08,274 --> 00:25:12,164
Speaker 2: told that story on stages around the country. And apparently

517
00:25:12,204 --> 00:25:13,684
Speaker 2: I was wrong. And I was not the only one

518
00:25:13,724 --> 00:25:16,224
Speaker 2: that was wrong. Talk about that guy and say his name.

519
00:25:17,524 --> 00:25:22,964
Speaker 3: Man. Well, the person you're talking about is Nate Boyer.

520
00:25:25,064 --> 00:25:28,804
Speaker 3: And for context leading into this, after that third game

521
00:25:28,824 --> 00:25:32,714
Speaker 3: in that interview with Steve Weissch, The media firestorm came

522
00:25:32,814 --> 00:25:36,394
Speaker 3: after that. Also a ton of support came after that.

523
00:25:37,394 --> 00:25:41,334
Speaker 3: And in that moment, going into our next game, Eric

524
00:25:41,434 --> 00:25:43,694
Speaker 3: Reid came up to me and was like, hey, can

525
00:25:43,734 --> 00:25:47,274
Speaker 3: I talk to you? And we went and sat down.

526
00:25:47,294 --> 00:25:50,754
Speaker 3: I think we ended up talking for two, three hours.

527
00:25:52,104 --> 00:25:54,304
Speaker 3: And he was like, look, I understand what you're trying

528
00:25:54,324 --> 00:25:58,784
Speaker 3: to accomplish. I believe in it. He's from Baton Rouge.

529
00:25:58,844 --> 00:26:01,924
Speaker 3: He was like, I I saw Alton Sterling get killed.

530
00:26:02,884 --> 00:26:06,674
Speaker 3: My dad drives down that road. He was like, I

531
00:26:07,054 --> 00:26:10,174
Speaker 3: also see the areas that you're getting pushback. You know,

532
00:26:10,234 --> 00:26:13,033
Speaker 3: you aren't out there with the team. You know, it's

533
00:26:13,074 --> 00:26:18,124
Speaker 3: not respectful. And even though those are things to try

534
00:26:18,144 --> 00:26:21,184
Speaker 3: to deflect from actually addressing the issue, it was like, well,

535
00:26:21,204 --> 00:26:24,964
Speaker 3: can we take those off the table? So Eric was like,

536
00:26:25,184 --> 00:26:27,264
Speaker 3: would you be willing to go out and take a knee? Like,

537
00:26:27,284 --> 00:26:29,994
Speaker 3: we'll do it together. And that's how we move forward.

538
00:26:30,014 --> 00:26:31,954
Speaker 3: So it was Eric Reid's idea for us to go

539
00:26:31,994 --> 00:26:36,824
Speaker 3: out and take a knee. Now, after we met, the

540
00:26:37,404 --> 00:26:39,744
Speaker 3: 49ers asked me to go down and meet with Nate

541
00:26:39,764 --> 00:26:42,464
Speaker 3: Boyer because he had written an open letter. He's a

542
00:26:42,504 --> 00:26:46,754
Speaker 3: Green Beret, played for Seattle for a period of time.

543
00:26:47,794 --> 00:26:50,434
Speaker 3: And during that conversation, we're like, well, this is what

544
00:26:50,454 --> 00:26:52,814
Speaker 3: we're going to go out and do tonight. And he

545
00:26:52,834 --> 00:26:56,364
Speaker 3: was like, oh, I think that makes sense. But he

546
00:26:56,424 --> 00:26:57,724
Speaker 3: also told us that he was going to go out

547
00:26:57,744 --> 00:27:01,844
Speaker 3: and take a knee with us. So part of the

548
00:27:01,884 --> 00:27:05,144
Speaker 3: reason he was on the sideline that night was we

549
00:27:05,164 --> 00:27:06,924
Speaker 3: thought he was going to go out and protest with us.

550
00:27:08,664 --> 00:27:12,934
Speaker 3: And as we get to that moment of asking everyone

551
00:27:12,964 --> 00:27:16,273
Speaker 3: to rise for the Star-Spangled Banner, he comes over and

552
00:27:16,294 --> 00:27:18,254
Speaker 3: he says, oh, well, I took an oath, so I

553
00:27:19,054 --> 00:27:23,944
Speaker 3: actually can't protest with you. I'll stand beside you, though. Which....

554
00:27:27,194 --> 00:27:29,914
Speaker 2: Say it, Colin, say it! Say it!

555
00:27:30,844 --> 00:27:32,584
Speaker 1: We'll keep the secret. We're here. We're here.

556
00:27:33,764 --> 00:27:37,864
Speaker 3: Feels very opportunistic. Feels like he got the photo op

557
00:27:37,884 --> 00:27:43,074
Speaker 3: he wanted. But on the back end of that, you know,

558
00:27:43,274 --> 00:27:45,094
Speaker 3: there's things that we saw. We saw him running around

559
00:27:45,154 --> 00:27:51,914
Speaker 3: doing press around it and misrepresenting that story. Also, trying

560
00:27:51,934 --> 00:27:56,174
Speaker 3: to profit off of it. You know, creating T-shirts, trying

561
00:27:56,214 --> 00:27:58,904
Speaker 3: to sell those, cutting Eric Reid out of the T-shirts.

562
00:28:00,054 --> 00:28:03,924
Speaker 3: So Mayweigh's rewriting history, the kicker on it was the

563
00:28:04,084 --> 00:28:09,284
Speaker 3: MLK quote underneath. That put me over the top. I

564
00:28:09,324 --> 00:28:13,864
Speaker 3: couldn't do it, y'all. But also, I mean, ended up

565
00:28:13,944 --> 00:28:17,773
Speaker 3: in movies on the back of that. So it became something,

566
00:28:17,794 --> 00:28:20,994
Speaker 3: an early signal for us of what was to come

567
00:28:21,634 --> 00:28:25,394
Speaker 3: and how people were going to try to leverage and

568
00:28:25,554 --> 00:28:29,024
Speaker 3: use the moment opportunistically. The other part that was interesting

569
00:28:29,064 --> 00:28:32,023
Speaker 3: within that, to your point of, oh, the story was

570
00:28:32,104 --> 00:28:34,164
Speaker 3: out there and everybody took it and ran with it.

571
00:28:34,744 --> 00:28:40,334
Speaker 3: It was fascinating to myself and Eric that not a

572
00:28:40,534 --> 00:28:44,814
Speaker 3: single person ever questioned him on it. No one questioned him.

573
00:28:45,354 --> 00:28:50,754
Speaker 3: No one ever came and asked me or Eric about it. Now,

574
00:28:50,974 --> 00:28:54,214
Speaker 3: during this time period... People are trying to make the

575
00:28:54,294 --> 00:28:57,714
Speaker 3: protest about everything but the issue that we're actually talking about.

576
00:28:58,374 --> 00:29:01,974
Speaker 3: So for us, we were looking at the situation and said, well,

577
00:29:02,314 --> 00:29:05,454
Speaker 3: do we go out and address this head on? And

578
00:29:05,474 --> 00:29:09,044
Speaker 3: then the conversation shifts to, well, whose idea was it?

579
00:29:09,154 --> 00:29:11,374
Speaker 3: And we get in the back and forth there. Or

580
00:29:11,394 --> 00:29:13,474
Speaker 3: do we say, we're going to stay focused on the issue.

581
00:29:13,494 --> 00:29:16,084
Speaker 3: We're going to keep moving forward. As much as I

582
00:29:16,124 --> 00:29:19,004
Speaker 3: personally want to go out and address this, we didn't

583
00:29:19,024 --> 00:29:20,664
Speaker 3: think that was the best to be able to keep

584
00:29:20,704 --> 00:29:23,834
Speaker 3: the focus on the issue. So we tried to just

585
00:29:23,914 --> 00:29:27,574
Speaker 3: stay consistent and laser focused, even when moments like this

586
00:29:27,594 --> 00:29:30,774
Speaker 3: that came up that were in many ways just ridiculous.

587
00:29:32,474 --> 00:29:39,414
Speaker 2: We're going to go back a little bit. Talk about Turlock.

588
00:29:42,154 --> 00:29:42,714
Speaker 3: What part?

589
00:29:45,094 --> 00:29:45,414
Speaker 1: It's funny.

590
00:29:45,454 --> 00:29:49,294
Speaker 2: I've had this conversation recently about people outside of California,

591
00:29:49,854 --> 00:29:52,014
Speaker 2: if you say I'm from California, they put us all

592
00:29:52,054 --> 00:29:55,134
Speaker 2: in LA. But then if they go, oh, I'm in

593
00:29:55,154 --> 00:29:56,534
Speaker 2: the Bay Area, they go, OK, that counts.

594
00:29:56,554 --> 00:29:57,294
Speaker 1: They put you in the Bay.

595
00:29:58,124 --> 00:30:00,004
Speaker 2: But as I've said many times, most of this state

596
00:30:00,044 --> 00:30:07,264
Speaker 2: is Texas. And you grew up in Texas, California. By

597
00:30:07,324 --> 00:30:09,264
Speaker 2: my reckoning, I have not been there enough to really

598
00:30:09,304 --> 00:30:09,944
Speaker 2: know for sure.

599
00:30:10,794 --> 00:30:11,394
Speaker 1: You should visit.

600
00:30:12,664 --> 00:30:13,344
Speaker 2: Probably not now.

601
00:30:14,244 --> 00:30:15,384
Speaker 1: Don't do that now.

602
00:30:16,304 --> 00:30:19,884
Speaker 2: So talk about growing up in Turlock, specifically as who

603
00:30:19,924 --> 00:30:20,984
Speaker 2: you are individually.

604
00:30:22,524 --> 00:30:26,454
Speaker 3: Turlock as I was growing up in it, I think

605
00:30:26,494 --> 00:30:29,014
Speaker 3: Turlock at that point in time was, I think it

606
00:30:29,034 --> 00:30:32,554
Speaker 3: was like 3% black or something like that. So there

607
00:30:32,574 --> 00:30:37,014
Speaker 3: was not a whole lot of us there. But it

608
00:30:37,034 --> 00:30:40,994
Speaker 3: became a space where you're constantly navigating how you show

609
00:30:41,074 --> 00:30:44,584
Speaker 3: up in the world and people remind you of it.

610
00:30:45,174 --> 00:30:48,854
Speaker 3: Also being black, adopted into a white family. Like it

611
00:30:48,914 --> 00:30:54,254
Speaker 3: is constantly a question around like, oh, why are you here?

612
00:30:54,514 --> 00:30:58,864
Speaker 3: Like who, how are you showing up like this? Now,

613
00:30:59,014 --> 00:31:02,564
Speaker 3: as time goes on, Turlock is also small enough where

614
00:31:03,164 --> 00:31:06,944
Speaker 3: it's like everybody kind of knows everybody. So it becomes

615
00:31:07,004 --> 00:31:09,744
Speaker 3: less of like, oh, why are you here? And more

616
00:31:09,824 --> 00:31:15,414
Speaker 3: so how your blackness shows up within Turlock becomes a question.

617
00:31:16,094 --> 00:31:20,464
Speaker 3: That's something that you just constantly navigate. Also, friend group-wise,

618
00:31:21,464 --> 00:31:24,624
Speaker 3: I get all the black and brown kids kind of,

619
00:31:24,624 --> 00:31:29,724
Speaker 3: all right, hey, y'all, it's all of us, all right?

620
00:31:29,764 --> 00:31:31,704
Speaker 1: We're now a new racial group.

621
00:31:33,154 --> 00:31:43,184
Speaker 3: Turlock was fascinating that way because it was basically like black, Mexican, Indian, Assyrian,

622
00:31:44,284 --> 00:31:47,444
Speaker 3: kind of all huddled up because there's just not that

623
00:31:47,504 --> 00:31:51,484
Speaker 3: many of us. And in many ways, it's like, well,

624
00:31:52,044 --> 00:31:55,964
Speaker 3: that becomes the other interlock. And everybody's like, well, we're

625
00:31:55,984 --> 00:31:59,204
Speaker 3: all kind of facing similar things. So you find comfort

626
00:31:59,244 --> 00:32:02,274
Speaker 3: in each other in that way. And you find community

627
00:32:02,294 --> 00:32:02,714
Speaker 3: in that way.

628
00:32:03,394 --> 00:32:05,374
Speaker 2: And you talk a lot in the book about your

629
00:32:05,394 --> 00:32:08,014
Speaker 2: relationship to your parents. So you said a black adopted

630
00:32:08,034 --> 00:32:11,304
Speaker 2: into a white family. And it is fascinating to me,

631
00:32:11,364 --> 00:32:15,114
Speaker 2: I think this is something that you, even though you're

632
00:32:15,134 --> 00:32:17,894
Speaker 2: a black adopted white family, your white parents don't, there's

633
00:32:17,914 --> 00:32:19,634
Speaker 2: the type of white parents who adopt a black kid

634
00:32:19,694 --> 00:32:21,934
Speaker 2: who like study the books on how to raise a

635
00:32:21,954 --> 00:32:24,874
Speaker 2: black child. It's more of a later 21st century phenomenon,

636
00:32:24,914 --> 00:32:27,354
Speaker 2: I think, than maybe when you were coming up. But

637
00:32:27,374 --> 00:32:30,354
Speaker 2: there's a lot more resources now. If you happen to

638
00:32:30,374 --> 00:32:32,114
Speaker 2: be a white parent who adopts a black kid, they

639
00:32:32,134 --> 00:32:34,014
Speaker 2: don't all avail themselves of the resources.

640
00:32:34,054 --> 00:32:35,024
Speaker 1: I'm going down a tributary.

641
00:32:35,124 --> 00:32:39,214
Speaker 2: Anyway, your parents did not seem to be the, the

642
00:32:39,254 --> 00:32:40,674
Speaker 2: type of white parents who were trying to figure out

643
00:32:40,694 --> 00:32:44,674
Speaker 2: how do we parent this kid specifically as a black child.

644
00:32:44,714 --> 00:32:45,874
Speaker 1: Am I right about that?

645
00:32:48,894 --> 00:32:51,894
Speaker 3: Yes and no. It was very clear from the time

646
00:32:51,934 --> 00:32:55,534
Speaker 3: I was young. You're black. You're adopted into our family.

647
00:32:55,754 --> 00:32:59,864
Speaker 3: That was never hidden. That was never a question. I

648
00:33:01,064 --> 00:33:04,144
Speaker 3: knew my parents loved me. They wanted what was best

649
00:33:04,184 --> 00:33:04,524
Speaker 3: for me.

650
00:33:06,884 --> 00:33:07,084
Speaker 4: They.

651
00:33:07,694 --> 00:33:10,894
Speaker 3: I think where the differentiation is, is they tried to

652
00:33:10,954 --> 00:33:12,874
Speaker 3: raise me the same way as my brother and sister.

653
00:33:14,394 --> 00:33:18,754
Speaker 3: And my experience was just not their experience. What I

654
00:33:18,774 --> 00:33:20,784
Speaker 3: was navigating in the world and how I showed up

655
00:33:20,824 --> 00:33:24,364
Speaker 3: in the world was not how they show up. So

656
00:33:25,024 --> 00:33:29,664
Speaker 3: it then became a point of tension of how I dress,

657
00:33:29,844 --> 00:33:34,774
Speaker 3: my hair, music, culture. All of these things came into

658
00:33:34,834 --> 00:33:38,134
Speaker 3: question as to Like, well, why are you like that? Like,

659
00:33:39,014 --> 00:33:40,874
Speaker 3: why do you want to do this? No, you shouldn't

660
00:33:40,914 --> 00:33:43,294
Speaker 3: do that. Here are the things you should be doing.

661
00:33:43,374 --> 00:33:46,574
Speaker 3: Here are the things you should like. And in many ways, it's, well,

662
00:33:47,314 --> 00:33:51,554
Speaker 3: we need you to assimilate because we think that's what's best.

663
00:33:53,054 --> 00:33:57,564
Speaker 3: So that point of contention then becomes you have a choice.

664
00:33:58,604 --> 00:34:01,044
Speaker 3: And I think you see this in a decent amount

665
00:34:01,064 --> 00:34:05,084
Speaker 3: of situations where you either have a path where you

666
00:34:05,124 --> 00:34:10,414
Speaker 3: fully assimilate And you go full bore there? Or you're like, no,

667
00:34:11,174 --> 00:34:13,433
Speaker 3: I cherish my blackness. I love my blackness. And you're

668
00:34:13,454 --> 00:34:20,393
Speaker 3: not going to change that. And for me, that's where

669
00:34:20,453 --> 00:34:23,674
Speaker 3: I lived in the space of, well, it may be

670
00:34:23,694 --> 00:34:26,743
Speaker 3: a constant battle, but I love who I am. And

671
00:34:26,824 --> 00:34:28,864
Speaker 3: that led to some of the role models I had

672
00:34:29,154 --> 00:34:32,074
Speaker 3: that I saw doing this on a national stage. During

673
00:34:32,094 --> 00:34:37,913
Speaker 3: this era, it's Allen Iverson, who completely shifted culture. In

674
00:34:37,933 --> 00:34:42,274
Speaker 3: the NFL, it's Randy Moss who is out there unapologetically himself.

675
00:34:43,094 --> 00:34:47,514
Speaker 3: And in baseball, it's Ken Griffey Jr. So I'm looking

676
00:34:47,574 --> 00:34:51,794
Speaker 3: to all of them. I mean, like, well, they're fighting

677
00:34:51,854 --> 00:34:54,883
Speaker 3: a similar battle within their respective sports. And we're seeing

678
00:34:54,904 --> 00:34:57,183
Speaker 3: this on national stage. And I saw a lot of

679
00:34:57,223 --> 00:35:01,064
Speaker 3: parallels to what I was navigating at home. So for me,

680
00:35:01,104 --> 00:35:03,863
Speaker 3: they became people that I looked up to I was like, well,

681
00:35:04,004 --> 00:35:06,703
Speaker 3: can I replicate what they're doing? The other part is

682
00:35:06,944 --> 00:35:10,504
Speaker 3: they were the best at what they did. It wasn't like, oh,

683
00:35:10,663 --> 00:35:12,283
Speaker 3: we're just out here and this is who we are.

684
00:35:12,303 --> 00:35:14,284
Speaker 3: It's like, no, we're out here and we're the best.

685
00:35:14,763 --> 00:35:18,334
Speaker 3: So deal with it. And that became the beauty of it.

686
00:35:20,354 --> 00:35:22,593
Speaker 2: How did your parents feel about, my heroes are Allen

687
00:35:22,654 --> 00:35:28,013
Speaker 2: Iverson and Randy Moss? Your white parents. I want to

688
00:35:28,033 --> 00:35:29,554
Speaker 2: be clear about that. Your white parents.

689
00:35:30,734 --> 00:35:34,584
Speaker 3: What's interesting to me is how they are talked about.

690
00:35:36,004 --> 00:35:38,284
Speaker 3: So for me, I'm like, oh, these are role models

691
00:35:38,344 --> 00:35:39,984
Speaker 3: for me that I can look up to because of

692
00:35:40,044 --> 00:35:42,703
Speaker 3: how they show up in the world. Been incredibly successful

693
00:35:43,544 --> 00:35:46,763
Speaker 3: and they are who they are. For them, it was like, oh,

694
00:35:46,803 --> 00:35:52,533
Speaker 3: you like the rebels. And in my mind, I'm looking

695
00:35:52,553 --> 00:35:55,714
Speaker 3: at them and I'm like, I don't view this as rebellious.

696
00:35:56,973 --> 00:35:59,433
Speaker 3: Why is it upsetting or why is it viewed as

697
00:35:59,473 --> 00:36:03,104
Speaker 3: rebellious that they show up as black men and show

698
00:36:03,123 --> 00:36:08,424
Speaker 3: up as their full selves and don't just assimilate. And

699
00:36:08,464 --> 00:36:11,954
Speaker 3: that mentality is some of what I had to navigate

700
00:36:12,033 --> 00:36:15,703
Speaker 3: just through Turlock. It's like showing up as a young

701
00:36:15,743 --> 00:36:19,453
Speaker 3: black boy growing into a black man was like, well,

702
00:36:19,493 --> 00:36:21,754
Speaker 3: some of these actions, growing your hair out, it's like, oh,

703
00:36:21,774 --> 00:36:24,633
Speaker 3: you're being rebellious. Oh, this is a phase for you.

704
00:36:25,553 --> 00:36:27,573
Speaker 3: And it's like, well, now this is just how my

705
00:36:27,614 --> 00:36:28,134
Speaker 3: hair grows.

706
00:36:28,453 --> 00:36:29,044
Speaker 2: Like, this is it.

707
00:36:30,964 --> 00:36:37,024
Speaker 3: I woke up like this. Definitely got to do a

708
00:36:37,044 --> 00:36:38,243
Speaker 3: little picket.

709
00:36:38,763 --> 00:36:41,754
Speaker 2: I got mine here in case you need it.

710
00:36:41,763 --> 00:36:42,654
Speaker 1: Yours is probably a little longer.

711
00:36:43,033 --> 00:36:45,294
Speaker 3: Got a little longer one. You always have to have

712
00:36:45,334 --> 00:36:48,994
Speaker 3: a few, though. They end up in different places.

713
00:36:49,033 --> 00:36:54,744
Speaker 1: Yeah, they do. A lot of Ubers. Can you come back? Otherwise,

714
00:36:54,803 --> 00:36:57,123
Speaker 1: I can't go outside. Exactly.

715
00:36:58,464 --> 00:37:01,224
Speaker 3: Yeah, but all I'd say is Definitely things to navigate

716
00:37:01,263 --> 00:37:01,904
Speaker 3: within Turlock.

717
00:37:07,674 --> 00:37:09,893
Speaker 2: These days, there are more people than ever telling you

718
00:37:09,933 --> 00:37:12,133
Speaker 2: how to manage your health. Your social media feed is

719
00:37:12,294 --> 00:37:15,874
Speaker 2: packed with wellness trends telling you to cold plunge, protein max,

720
00:37:16,013 --> 00:37:16,893
Speaker 2: and so much more.

721
00:37:17,114 --> 00:37:20,274
Speaker 1: But what's actually real? What's exaggerated? And what's just plain wrong?

722
00:37:20,734 --> 00:37:23,323
Speaker 2: Health versus Hype from the American Medical Association breaks it

723
00:37:23,444 --> 00:37:27,123
Speaker 2: all down. Emmy-nominated host Trace Dominguez talks to health influencers,

724
00:37:27,464 --> 00:37:31,454
Speaker 2: real people, and most importantly... to doctors to separate fact

725
00:37:31,493 --> 00:37:33,794
Speaker 2: from fiction. Because when it comes to your health, who

726
00:37:33,834 --> 00:37:37,234
Speaker 2: you listen to matters. Listen to Health Versus Hype wherever

727
00:37:37,254 --> 00:37:48,363
Speaker 2: you get your podcasts. Well, let's, I mean, we sort

728
00:37:48,384 --> 00:37:51,044
Speaker 2: of talked about hair. I think let's, the number of

729
00:37:51,104 --> 00:37:53,944
Speaker 2: times I winced every time the word supercuts came up

730
00:37:53,984 --> 00:37:56,803
Speaker 2: in your book. I mean, do you literally go to

731
00:37:56,864 --> 00:37:58,564
Speaker 2: supercuts or is that just an expression?

732
00:37:59,013 --> 00:38:04,073
Speaker 3: No, it was literally Supercuts. This is how vivid the

733
00:38:04,094 --> 00:38:06,774
Speaker 3: memory is. It was Supercuts. It was on gear. It

734
00:38:06,794 --> 00:38:09,413
Speaker 3: was one of the main streets in Turlock. There's not

735
00:38:09,433 --> 00:38:13,734
Speaker 3: too many main streets in Turlock. But I would go

736
00:38:13,774 --> 00:38:17,153
Speaker 3: into Supercuts, and it would either be a number one

737
00:38:17,404 --> 00:38:19,783
Speaker 3: or it would be a zero, and they would just

738
00:38:19,844 --> 00:38:20,523
Speaker 3: shave my head.

739
00:38:21,044 --> 00:38:25,403
Speaker 2: No fade, no cut apart into it, no spell my

740
00:38:25,424 --> 00:38:26,143
Speaker 2: name in the back.

741
00:38:26,163 --> 00:38:29,834
Speaker 3: There was no lineup at all. Not even like, oh,

742
00:38:29,884 --> 00:38:34,704
Speaker 3: just do it. Don't go look at my childhood photos, okay?

743
00:38:35,064 --> 00:38:35,303
Speaker 1: No.

744
00:38:36,424 --> 00:38:42,363
Speaker 3: And if you do, have empathy, please. Hairline was, it

745
00:38:42,404 --> 00:38:45,553
Speaker 3: was a process. It wasn't until I got to college

746
00:38:45,654 --> 00:38:50,814
Speaker 3: that I actually had a black barber. God, I'm first.

747
00:38:50,834 --> 00:38:50,933
Speaker 1: Wow.

748
00:38:50,973 --> 00:38:51,254
Speaker 2: Yeah.

749
00:38:57,033 --> 00:38:58,784
Speaker 3: All of the ahs out there. Oh, man.

750
00:38:58,803 --> 00:39:00,504
Speaker 2: That was the biggest ah of the night. And we've

751
00:39:00,544 --> 00:39:01,504
Speaker 2: talked about a lot of things.

752
00:39:03,844 --> 00:39:08,044
Speaker 3: But for me, part of that journey was like, there

753
00:39:08,203 --> 00:39:11,863
Speaker 3: was no black mentor in Turlock for me to go to.

754
00:39:11,884 --> 00:39:16,643
Speaker 3: I was like, yeah, you need to go get lined up. Or, hey,

755
00:39:16,683 --> 00:39:19,004
Speaker 3: here's how you take care of your hair. Or here

756
00:39:19,024 --> 00:39:20,863
Speaker 3: are the things you need to look out for out

757
00:39:20,884 --> 00:39:23,473
Speaker 3: in the world. I just had to figure those things

758
00:39:23,674 --> 00:39:26,924
Speaker 3: out along the way. This was also for the younger

759
00:39:26,973 --> 00:39:30,663
Speaker 3: folks out there. This is also pre just being able

760
00:39:30,683 --> 00:39:33,763
Speaker 3: to jump on Google or Instagram or TikTok and be like,

761
00:39:34,694 --> 00:39:35,174
Speaker 3: all right.

762
00:39:35,214 --> 00:39:36,234
Speaker 2: What's everybody doing?

763
00:39:36,243 --> 00:39:39,424
Speaker 3: It's just like, you have to try to find people.

764
00:39:41,464 --> 00:39:44,363
Speaker 3: And that became a process. And it really wasn't until

765
00:39:44,404 --> 00:39:48,084
Speaker 3: I got to college that I had community around me

766
00:39:48,504 --> 00:39:50,203
Speaker 3: that I was able to get some of those insights from.

767
00:39:51,294 --> 00:39:53,613
Speaker 2: And you talk about in the book about you grew

768
00:39:53,634 --> 00:39:57,093
Speaker 2: your hair out. Specifically, you stopped super cutting it because

769
00:39:57,134 --> 00:39:59,433
Speaker 2: you wanted to do the braids, the Allen Iverson braids.

770
00:39:59,453 --> 00:39:59,893
Speaker 3: Yeah.

771
00:40:00,243 --> 00:40:00,943
Speaker 1: And how that went.

772
00:40:02,783 --> 00:40:07,453
Speaker 3: That was also a process. So the entry point into

773
00:40:07,493 --> 00:40:13,354
Speaker 3: that was actually there were two brothers who played football,

774
00:40:15,234 --> 00:40:17,553
Speaker 3: Ryan Clay and Marcus Clay. They were one of the

775
00:40:17,594 --> 00:40:21,314
Speaker 3: other black families in Turlock. Again, there was a handful

776
00:40:21,334 --> 00:40:25,214
Speaker 3: of us. And they came to practice one day, and

777
00:40:25,254 --> 00:40:28,754
Speaker 3: both of them had braids. I was like, oh, this

778
00:40:28,774 --> 00:40:32,334
Speaker 3: is my shot. Like I have someone to go ask.

779
00:40:32,774 --> 00:40:36,013
Speaker 3: So I asked them, they're like, oh, well, here's, here's

780
00:40:36,033 --> 00:40:39,163
Speaker 3: who did our, our hair. Um, you know, you need

781
00:40:39,183 --> 00:40:40,544
Speaker 3: to grow your hair out. It needs to be about

782
00:40:40,564 --> 00:40:43,143
Speaker 3: three inches long, like giving me some of the insight.

783
00:40:43,643 --> 00:40:45,343
Speaker 3: So I'm like, all right, three inches. I'm at home

784
00:40:45,404 --> 00:40:48,544
Speaker 3: measuring my hair. Like, all right, how, how close am

785
00:40:48,623 --> 00:40:52,674
Speaker 3: I to getting there in that process? Even just growing

786
00:40:52,714 --> 00:40:57,634
Speaker 3: my hair out became like, you, you look kind of messy.

787
00:40:58,214 --> 00:41:01,993
Speaker 3: Like it, That became a conversation. But actually getting my

788
00:41:02,033 --> 00:41:06,834
Speaker 3: hair braided, ultimately they gave me the number. It was

789
00:41:06,873 --> 00:41:08,614
Speaker 3: a high school girl who had braided their hair. I

790
00:41:09,364 --> 00:41:12,964
Speaker 3: go over to her house. She starts braiding. I get

791
00:41:12,984 --> 00:41:16,263
Speaker 3: about halfway through. I think it was her sister that

792
00:41:16,303 --> 00:41:18,723
Speaker 3: came home and was like, oh, we got to go

793
00:41:18,743 --> 00:41:20,804
Speaker 3: to the mall and pick up some clothes for this event.

794
00:41:23,263 --> 00:41:27,674
Speaker 3: So my first braiding experience, I end up in the

795
00:41:27,703 --> 00:41:34,604
Speaker 3: car half braided On the way to mall. Now, at

796
00:41:34,643 --> 00:41:37,684
Speaker 3: this point, I'm in middle school, so I'm probably like

797
00:41:37,683 --> 00:41:41,354
Speaker 3: 13 years old. I'm like, well, if we got to

798
00:41:41,393 --> 00:41:42,913
Speaker 3: go to the mall, we're going to the mall. I

799
00:41:42,953 --> 00:41:45,834
Speaker 3: don't have a choice here. I'm jumping in the car.

800
00:41:46,373 --> 00:41:48,094
Speaker 3: So we jump in the car. We drive to Modesto.

801
00:41:48,154 --> 00:41:49,414
Speaker 3: It's like 30 minutes away.

802
00:41:49,433 --> 00:41:54,754
Speaker 2: I love the fact that all the California references here.

803
00:41:54,694 --> 00:41:55,823
Speaker 1: Are like, oh, oh.

804
00:41:57,933 --> 00:41:59,114
Speaker 3: How do y'all really feel?

805
00:42:00,134 --> 00:42:01,914
Speaker 2: Then we went to Vacaville.

806
00:42:04,493 --> 00:42:05,774
Speaker 1: Dixon.

807
00:42:07,334 --> 00:42:12,034
Speaker 3: So we get to Modesto. They go grab their clothes.

808
00:42:12,114 --> 00:42:15,493
Speaker 3: I'm sitting in the car. They come back out. We're

809
00:42:15,513 --> 00:42:19,953
Speaker 3: getting ready to leave. Oh, the hot light's on. So

810
00:42:20,654 --> 00:42:23,533
Speaker 3: we go to Krispy Kreme because the hot light's on.

811
00:42:24,814 --> 00:42:27,073
Speaker 3: This is also my first Krispy Kreme experience.

812
00:42:27,134 --> 00:42:27,364
Speaker 4: Wow.

813
00:42:28,384 --> 00:42:30,123
Speaker 3: So I was getting a whole lot this day.

814
00:42:30,564 --> 00:42:31,903
Speaker 2: Yeah, you got a lot of punches in your black

815
00:42:31,924 --> 00:42:32,524
Speaker 2: card that day.

816
00:42:32,763 --> 00:42:33,404
Speaker 4: Oh, man.

817
00:42:35,584 --> 00:42:39,633
Speaker 3: So grabbed a Krispy Kreme, go back, finished braiding my hair.

818
00:42:42,134 --> 00:42:46,693
Speaker 3: Also realized getting your hair braided, my hair was just

819
00:42:46,834 --> 00:42:50,064
Speaker 3: barely long enough. So she was using rubber bands throughout

820
00:42:50,344 --> 00:42:53,624
Speaker 3: to make it stay. Oh, I heard the oohs.

821
00:42:53,783 --> 00:42:56,263
Speaker 2: Yeah, I heard the oohs. We are in church now.

822
00:42:56,324 --> 00:42:59,203
Speaker 3: This is, yeah. I felt all the ooze too.

823
00:42:59,223 --> 00:43:00,664
Speaker 1: Yeah, you felt the wind.

824
00:43:00,683 --> 00:43:05,033
Speaker 3: I was like, oh man. So the braids didn't last

825
00:43:05,074 --> 00:43:10,613
Speaker 3: too long because my head was on fire. But ultimately,

826
00:43:11,013 --> 00:43:15,433
Speaker 3: get back. Now at this point, I'm probably gone for

827
00:43:15,473 --> 00:43:20,463
Speaker 3: like three hours. My mom picks me up and she

828
00:43:20,544 --> 00:43:26,223
Speaker 3: is furious. Furious. Ultimately, that led to well, if you're

829
00:43:26,243 --> 00:43:27,743
Speaker 3: going to do this, we're going to take you to

830
00:43:27,763 --> 00:43:31,923
Speaker 3: a professional then. So, ended up going to a black

831
00:43:31,964 --> 00:43:34,424
Speaker 3: barbershop the next time in Modesto.

832
00:43:35,533 --> 00:43:42,174
Speaker 2: I think that's Kevin Johnson.

833
00:43:45,094 --> 00:43:50,424
Speaker 3: But the front of that barbershop was actually a clothing store. So, Basically,

834
00:43:50,453 --> 00:43:52,134
Speaker 3: you had everything you wanted in one place.

835
00:43:52,364 --> 00:43:53,014
Speaker 1: Nice.

836
00:43:53,074 --> 00:43:54,133
Speaker 2: How are you going to do it in a place

837
00:43:54,154 --> 00:43:56,513
Speaker 2: where there's not a lot of black people? The neighborhood,

838
00:43:56,533 --> 00:43:58,613
Speaker 2: the mall's got to be one spot.

839
00:43:58,814 --> 00:44:01,794
Speaker 3: Just one stop. But this was one of the first

840
00:44:01,854 --> 00:44:04,834
Speaker 3: places that I walked into. I was like, oh man,

841
00:44:04,854 --> 00:44:06,694
Speaker 3: this feels like a sense of community here for me.

842
00:44:07,913 --> 00:44:11,514
Speaker 3: It's all black folks in there. My mom was walking

843
00:44:11,533 --> 00:44:15,314
Speaker 3: in there with me. She's looking around. She's like, oh,

844
00:44:15,574 --> 00:44:20,633
Speaker 3: what did I get myself into as well? But Even

845
00:44:20,683 --> 00:44:23,113
Speaker 3: as I walked into the back of the store to

846
00:44:23,154 --> 00:44:27,974
Speaker 3: go to the barbershop to get braided, it was interesting

847
00:44:28,013 --> 00:44:31,754
Speaker 3: because immediately it felt like everybody was looking out for me.

848
00:44:32,873 --> 00:44:35,284
Speaker 3: It was almost like, all right, we got you. We

849
00:44:35,324 --> 00:44:36,803
Speaker 3: know what you're navigating.

850
00:44:37,904 --> 00:44:39,844
Speaker 2: We see what's happening here with your mom and you

851
00:44:39,904 --> 00:44:41,234
Speaker 2: and your hair's dry. Oh, man.

852
00:44:47,824 --> 00:44:51,604
Speaker 3: There was no oils or conditioners or none of that.

853
00:44:51,623 --> 00:44:58,533
Speaker 1: You're using two in one. It was.

854
00:44:59,553 --> 00:45:01,694
Speaker 3: So now you're just bringing back memories.

855
00:45:01,754 --> 00:45:05,454
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I'm actually talking about myself a little bit, too. So,

856
00:45:06,114 --> 00:45:07,854
Speaker 2: but you, they, I just want to highlight the fact,

857
00:45:07,873 --> 00:45:10,093
Speaker 2: because I think it's important that those black folks in

858
00:45:10,694 --> 00:45:13,633
Speaker 2: Modesto saw, oh, come here, brother, we got you.

859
00:45:14,074 --> 00:45:20,883
Speaker 3: Absolutely. And that Looking back, those moments were so valuable.

860
00:45:22,964 --> 00:45:26,734
Speaker 3: Because again, immediately walking in, I was like, oh, I

861
00:45:26,754 --> 00:45:29,973
Speaker 3: can relax. I know I'm good here. And even the

862
00:45:30,013 --> 00:45:32,294
Speaker 3: woman that was braiding my hair, after that, she was like, well,

863
00:45:32,533 --> 00:45:35,334
Speaker 3: you can just come to the house. She wanted to

864
00:45:35,433 --> 00:45:38,334
Speaker 3: make sure everything was good the first time. And then

865
00:45:38,354 --> 00:45:40,803
Speaker 3: it became, I would go over to her house to

866
00:45:40,824 --> 00:45:43,643
Speaker 3: get braided. When I would go over there, she'd be like, oh,

867
00:45:43,683 --> 00:45:46,384
Speaker 3: you want food? She would have food ready. Be like,

868
00:45:46,484 --> 00:45:49,034
Speaker 3: come sit on the ground. She's sitting on the couch,

869
00:45:49,274 --> 00:45:52,234
Speaker 3: braiding my hair. It would be 106 and Park or

870
00:45:52,294 --> 00:45:57,003
Speaker 3: Rap City on. And that was, in many ways, that

871
00:45:57,044 --> 00:46:01,104
Speaker 3: was like the escape for me. That was like, oh,

872
00:46:01,243 --> 00:46:04,584
Speaker 3: I can just be here, and I don't have to

873
00:46:04,623 --> 00:46:12,094
Speaker 3: worry about anything. And while we're driving into the neighborhood,

874
00:46:12,314 --> 00:46:16,763
Speaker 3: it was a low-income neighborhood. in an area that people

875
00:46:16,803 --> 00:46:19,184
Speaker 3: may deem like, oh, this may not be as safe,

876
00:46:21,194 --> 00:46:24,834
Speaker 3: that felt so safe for me. Like the sense of

877
00:46:24,893 --> 00:46:32,633
Speaker 3: community there. So I think, when I think back to

878
00:46:32,674 --> 00:46:36,573
Speaker 3: those moments, like the concepts and ideas of safety and

879
00:46:36,614 --> 00:46:39,013
Speaker 3: community and how we look out for each other, I

880
00:46:40,254 --> 00:46:42,594
Speaker 3: had that show up for me in very real ways

881
00:46:42,893 --> 00:46:46,584
Speaker 3: at a very young age. in moments that I don't

882
00:46:46,604 --> 00:46:49,283
Speaker 3: think I fully appreciated how much I needed it in

883
00:46:49,324 --> 00:46:53,283
Speaker 3: that moment. And I didn't have anywhere else to go

884
00:46:53,324 --> 00:46:53,823
Speaker 3: to find it.

885
00:46:53,824 --> 00:46:56,084
Speaker 2: Like I said earlier, I've been watching you on a

886
00:46:56,084 --> 00:47:00,324
Speaker 2: lot of podcasts. I saw you on the Karen Hunter show. Yes,

887
00:47:00,584 --> 00:47:05,264
Speaker 2: shout out for Karen Hunter. And she talked about the

888
00:47:05,354 --> 00:47:09,973
Speaker 2: idea of how you classify yourself racially. The word biracial

889
00:47:10,013 --> 00:47:13,433
Speaker 2: came up. Some people would say mixed race. Some people

890
00:47:13,453 --> 00:47:17,254
Speaker 2: say all these things. What is your racial classification for yourself?

891
00:47:18,913 --> 00:47:26,944
Speaker 3: I'm black. It's such a weird debate to me. How

892
00:47:27,584 --> 00:47:30,604
Speaker 3: are you classifying? I show up in the world as

893
00:47:30,643 --> 00:47:32,143
Speaker 3: a black man. I'm going to be treated as a

894
00:47:32,183 --> 00:47:37,843
Speaker 3: black man. The actions I should be taking should be

895
00:47:38,223 --> 00:47:41,143
Speaker 3: in conjunction, in support of the black community because I

896
00:47:41,203 --> 00:47:46,064
Speaker 3: am part of that community. It's not Now, I also

897
00:47:46,104 --> 00:47:52,263
Speaker 3: feel like that's something used to try to divide the community. Like, oh, well,

898
00:47:52,544 --> 00:47:54,823
Speaker 3: if we can splinter and fragment this, like, there's less

899
00:47:54,864 --> 00:47:59,413
Speaker 3: power there. So I just think also we need to

900
00:47:59,433 --> 00:48:02,194
Speaker 3: be aware of tactics that may be used against us

901
00:48:03,413 --> 00:48:05,493
Speaker 3: to try to weaken the community and weaken the power

902
00:48:05,533 --> 00:48:06,594
Speaker 3: that we collectively have.

903
00:48:07,134 --> 00:48:08,214
Speaker 1: Absolutely. Absolutely.

904
00:48:11,243 --> 00:48:12,864
Speaker 2: When we first met years ago, you met two of

905
00:48:12,904 --> 00:48:16,744
Speaker 2: my daughters who are, their mom is white, they identify

906
00:48:16,783 --> 00:48:18,444
Speaker 2: as black, so we clear everybody.

907
00:48:20,024 --> 00:48:20,584
Speaker 3: Good job, Dad.

908
00:48:20,604 --> 00:48:21,403
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, sure.

909
00:48:22,004 --> 00:48:23,424
Speaker 2: I have to say I have some pride in one

910
00:48:23,444 --> 00:48:25,524
Speaker 2: of them is pretty light skinned, and she can say,

911
00:48:25,564 --> 00:48:29,184
Speaker 2: when she says white people, I'm like, yes, I did it. Yes,

912
00:48:29,533 --> 00:48:32,094
Speaker 2: she identifies that as an outside group.

913
00:48:32,893 --> 00:48:35,034
Speaker 1: And her mom's like, you know.

914
00:48:36,354 --> 00:48:37,754
Speaker 2: And I have a lot of people who've been in

915
00:48:37,794 --> 00:48:39,413
Speaker 2: my life, just because the community of the Bay Area,

916
00:48:39,453 --> 00:48:42,654
Speaker 2: who who were trans-racially adopted, black people adopted by white people.

917
00:48:43,214 --> 00:48:45,614
Speaker 2: And there's a lot of them who love their parents

918
00:48:46,453 --> 00:48:48,443
Speaker 2: and know that those are their people, love their people,

919
00:48:48,453 --> 00:48:51,303
Speaker 2: their adopted parents, those are their parents, but feel like

920
00:48:51,763 --> 00:48:54,884
Speaker 2: maybe white parents should not be allowed to adopt black children.

921
00:48:57,743 --> 00:49:00,384
Speaker 2: Do you have any thoughts on that? Oh, man.

922
00:49:00,763 --> 00:49:04,763
Speaker 3: It's interesting because, again, my parents did a lot for me.

923
00:49:05,584 --> 00:49:09,093
Speaker 3: Loved me. They gave me a strong foundation. gave me

924
00:49:09,134 --> 00:49:12,513
Speaker 3: a great moral foundation. At the same time, when it

925
00:49:12,553 --> 00:49:17,524
Speaker 3: came to culture and it came to my blackness, that

926
00:49:17,544 --> 00:49:21,404
Speaker 3: just wasn't there. And I've seen a lot of these conversations.

927
00:49:23,604 --> 00:49:26,513
Speaker 3: It's tough for me to say definitively one way or

928
00:49:26,574 --> 00:49:29,433
Speaker 3: the other. What I will say is, if you are

929
00:49:29,473 --> 00:49:33,544
Speaker 3: white and adopting a black child like you should do

930
00:49:33,604 --> 00:49:38,944
Speaker 3: your work you should do your work and part of

931
00:49:38,984 --> 00:49:41,673
Speaker 3: that work is also making sure that you have black

932
00:49:41,703 --> 00:49:45,013
Speaker 3: folks around your child because there's going to be experiences

933
00:49:45,053 --> 00:49:47,194
Speaker 3: there's going to be knowledge there's going to be insight

934
00:49:47,614 --> 00:49:50,133
Speaker 3: that they have that you just can't give them and

935
00:49:50,154 --> 00:49:51,834
Speaker 3: you have to be aware of the things that you

936
00:49:51,873 --> 00:49:54,413
Speaker 3: can't give them and go find that to be able

937
00:49:54,453 --> 00:49:56,664
Speaker 3: to make sure they have the right supports in place.

938
00:49:57,464 --> 00:49:59,104
Speaker 1: Absolutely, absolutely. Thank you for that.

939
00:49:59,243 --> 00:50:00,703
Speaker 2: I didn't mean to put you on the spot like that.

940
00:50:01,283 --> 00:50:02,003
Speaker 3: No, all good.

941
00:50:02,223 --> 00:50:02,703
Speaker 1: Okay, good.

942
00:50:02,723 --> 00:50:06,343
Speaker 2: I also put you on the spot like that. I

943
00:50:06,364 --> 00:50:08,984
Speaker 2: guess I did do that. We can shift gears a

944
00:50:09,004 --> 00:50:11,263
Speaker 2: little bit. Thank you for all this. So I would

945
00:50:11,283 --> 00:50:14,473
Speaker 2: like to, we are in some ways here celebrating black books.

946
00:50:14,864 --> 00:50:16,834
Speaker 2: We're talking about Marcus Books here for Marcus Books. All

947
00:50:16,854 --> 00:50:22,024
Speaker 2: those black books are in the country. Got the National

948
00:50:22,044 --> 00:50:26,214
Speaker 2: Association of Black Bookstores who put this event on. And

949
00:50:26,294 --> 00:50:28,714
Speaker 2: in the book, you talk a lot about how one

950
00:50:28,734 --> 00:50:31,094
Speaker 2: of the ways you really came to understand your blackness,

951
00:50:31,134 --> 00:50:33,234
Speaker 2: not as a cultural identity, but as a political identity,

952
00:50:33,574 --> 00:50:36,413
Speaker 2: was through reading. Can you mention some books that you

953
00:50:36,433 --> 00:50:39,174
Speaker 2: felt like really helped you figure out, helped you sort

954
00:50:39,243 --> 00:50:41,444
Speaker 2: of understand who you were and how you existed in

955
00:50:41,484 --> 00:50:41,924
Speaker 2: this world?

956
00:50:42,763 --> 00:50:43,504
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.

957
00:50:43,864 --> 00:50:47,504
Speaker 3: The first one that was really the catalyst was the

958
00:50:47,564 --> 00:50:48,743
Speaker 3: autobiography of Malcolm X.

959
00:50:49,123 --> 00:50:49,323
Speaker 2: Yes.

960
00:50:51,044 --> 00:50:56,204
Speaker 3: But after that, then became Wretched of the Earth, Black Skin,

961
00:50:56,243 --> 00:51:04,234
Speaker 3: White Masks, Revolutionary Suicide, Baldwin, Angela Davis, Steve Biko, all

962
00:51:04,274 --> 00:51:09,334
Speaker 3: of the black revolutionaries that gave me a political understanding

963
00:51:09,413 --> 00:51:13,194
Speaker 3: and a historical understanding, not only of blackness and how

964
00:51:13,234 --> 00:51:17,073
Speaker 3: it shows up within society, but also the institutions that

965
00:51:17,114 --> 00:51:22,084
Speaker 3: are working against us. through that process gave me an

966
00:51:22,143 --> 00:51:26,384
Speaker 3: understanding to be able to contextualize all of my experiences

967
00:51:26,424 --> 00:51:30,203
Speaker 3: growing up. It gave me a better understanding of what

968
00:51:30,263 --> 00:51:33,683
Speaker 3: I was previously navigating and also what I'm going to

969
00:51:33,703 --> 00:51:35,104
Speaker 3: be navigating moving forward.

970
00:51:36,564 --> 00:51:37,064
Speaker 1: Absolutely.

971
00:51:37,084 --> 00:51:38,383
Speaker 2: Thank you for that. Thank you for that list. That's

972
00:51:38,444 --> 00:51:41,203
Speaker 2: a great list to have. And I really do, Audubon

973
00:51:41,243 --> 00:51:42,703
Speaker 2: from Malcolm X was the book that I read too

974
00:51:42,723 --> 00:51:44,194
Speaker 2: that was like, I really feel like it's such a

975
00:51:44,274 --> 00:51:48,184
Speaker 2: great window into America. And even though it was written

976
00:51:48,444 --> 00:51:53,623
Speaker 2: in the 60s, it still applies. It still applies. Let's

977
00:51:53,643 --> 00:52:01,004
Speaker 2: talk about some more current things happening. The mm-hmm section.

978
00:52:01,084 --> 00:52:03,643
Speaker 1: Mm, mm, mm.

979
00:52:03,743 --> 00:52:05,903
Speaker 2: She's like, yeah, that's what I came for, yes. We

980
00:52:05,953 --> 00:52:10,274
Speaker 2: can read the book, Kamau. Get to the news. It's

981
00:52:10,294 --> 00:52:12,854
Speaker 2: not often, and I've seen you talk about this a lot,

982
00:52:13,594 --> 00:52:15,174
Speaker 2: it's not often I talk to somebody who's in an

983
00:52:15,373 --> 00:52:20,274
Speaker 2: active beef with Jay-Z. I mean, never, I've never talked

984
00:52:20,294 --> 00:52:24,274
Speaker 2: to anybody. You've been very clear about how that all

985
00:52:24,314 --> 00:52:28,033
Speaker 2: went down with Jay-Z. And I, as a person, would

986
00:52:28,074 --> 00:52:30,113
Speaker 2: be like, if I heard Jay-Z say my name in

987
00:52:30,134 --> 00:52:31,973
Speaker 2: a freestyle, I think, I don't know if I'd be

988
00:52:32,013 --> 00:52:32,613
Speaker 2: outside again.

989
00:52:32,654 --> 00:52:33,913
Speaker 1: You know what I mean? Like, it just feels like

990
00:52:33,953 --> 00:52:34,594
Speaker 1: that's a lot.

991
00:52:36,774 --> 00:52:40,393
Speaker 3: He's a person. Like, he's a person.

992
00:52:43,944 --> 00:52:44,303
Speaker 1: Like, I.

993
00:52:46,203 --> 00:52:46,534
Speaker 1: One, I.

994
00:52:47,834 --> 00:52:49,493
Speaker 3: To be clear, I didn't seek out the beef.

995
00:52:50,553 --> 00:52:54,033
Speaker 2: That's first. And I'm being funny by describing it as

996
00:52:54,053 --> 00:52:58,343
Speaker 2: a beef. It is an intellectual disagreement. She said, I

997
00:52:58,344 --> 00:52:59,284
Speaker 2: don't know about that.

998
00:53:00,024 --> 00:53:02,004
Speaker 1: Okay, it's a beef. It's a beef. I'm sorry. I

999
00:53:02,004 --> 00:53:04,303
Speaker 1: was trying to clean it up a little bit. You're right.

1000
00:53:05,044 --> 00:53:10,343
Speaker 3: Well, I would say it's an intellectual but also moral disagreement.

1001
00:53:11,584 --> 00:53:16,593
Speaker 3: And to me, part of the reason the conversation is

1002
00:53:16,654 --> 00:53:21,213
Speaker 3: happening is is as he went and did the deal

1003
00:53:21,254 --> 00:53:24,034
Speaker 3: with the NFL, I had tried to get in touch

1004
00:53:24,053 --> 00:53:26,493
Speaker 3: with him prior to that. He had been publicly supportive.

1005
00:53:26,814 --> 00:53:29,494
Speaker 3: I thought he was someone who would be supportive. So

1006
00:53:29,513 --> 00:53:31,604
Speaker 3: I had tried to get in contact to say thank you.

1007
00:53:32,143 --> 00:53:34,304
Speaker 3: And if there was anything that we could do together

1008
00:53:34,324 --> 00:53:38,843
Speaker 3: to build, like amazing. If not, no worries. Now, he

1009
00:53:38,884 --> 00:53:40,984
Speaker 3: would never take a meeting, never get on a call.

1010
00:53:43,433 --> 00:53:46,094
Speaker 3: Roc Nation had tried to recruit me during this time period.

1011
00:53:47,533 --> 00:53:52,623
Speaker 3: ultimately did not go with them but the first call

1012
00:53:52,723 --> 00:53:56,183
Speaker 3: I got from him was the day before he did

1013
00:53:56,203 --> 00:54:00,283
Speaker 3: his press conference to do his deal with the NFL

1014
00:54:01,203 --> 00:54:04,823
Speaker 3: I told him I completely disagree with it you may

1015
00:54:04,844 --> 00:54:06,613
Speaker 3: have seen the quotes but I told him you're selling

1016
00:54:06,654 --> 00:54:07,714
Speaker 3: the culture out to a bunch of.

1017
00:54:07,754 --> 00:54:12,973
Speaker 1: Racists again that's good writing.

1018
00:54:15,834 --> 00:54:19,734
Speaker 3: But it At that point in time, we're seeing major

1019
00:54:19,873 --> 00:54:24,854
Speaker 3: artists boycotting the Super Bowl. We're seeing collectively as a community,

1020
00:54:25,393 --> 00:54:30,873
Speaker 3: there's boycotts against the NFL. And he stepped in to

1021
00:54:30,893 --> 00:54:34,953
Speaker 3: fill that void. Now, the context prior to this is

1022
00:54:35,174 --> 00:54:40,834
Speaker 3: in 2017, there was a players owners meeting. And in

1023
00:54:40,854 --> 00:54:45,134
Speaker 3: that players owners meeting, we see Bob Kraft, who is

1024
00:54:45,174 --> 00:54:48,774
Speaker 3: the owner of the Patriots. New England Patriots.

1025
00:54:50,094 --> 00:54:50,493
Speaker 2: I'll ask.

1026
00:54:50,574 --> 00:54:50,973
Speaker 1: I'll ask.

1027
00:54:51,033 --> 00:54:51,493
Speaker 2: Calm down.

1028
00:54:51,674 --> 00:54:56,433
Speaker 3: We'll get there. But we see Bob Kraft come out

1029
00:54:57,033 --> 00:55:01,294
Speaker 3: in that meeting, and it's been reported on, that the

1030
00:55:01,354 --> 00:55:04,763
Speaker 3: elephant in the room is the kneeling in the protests.

1031
00:55:04,884 --> 00:55:08,743
Speaker 3: We need to end that. We see Terry Pegula, who

1032
00:55:08,803 --> 00:55:12,584
Speaker 3: is the owner of the Buffalo Bills, specifically say in

1033
00:55:12,623 --> 00:55:16,904
Speaker 3: that conversation, we need a black face. to help us

1034
00:55:17,004 --> 00:55:21,904
Speaker 3: end this, and also likened it to how the NRA

1035
00:55:22,384 --> 00:55:29,774
Speaker 3: used Charleston Heston to be able to advance their efforts.

1036
00:55:30,134 --> 00:55:31,933
Speaker 3: It was like, we need a figure like that, and

1037
00:55:31,953 --> 00:55:35,234
Speaker 3: we need a black face like that. Now, they had

1038
00:55:35,294 --> 00:55:39,073
Speaker 3: attempted this with the Players Coalition. Within the NFL, that

1039
00:55:39,094 --> 00:55:43,214
Speaker 3: didn't work. As we were going through litigation, they approached

1040
00:55:43,283 --> 00:55:46,494
Speaker 3: me with a deal. to lead their social justice initiatives.

1041
00:55:48,384 --> 00:55:55,444
Speaker 3: Which one we laughed at, but rejected. Also speaks to

1042
00:55:55,484 --> 00:55:56,964
Speaker 3: the audacity of the NFL.

1043
00:55:57,783 --> 00:56:01,123
Speaker 1: We won't hire you, but can you be our spokesperson?

1044
00:56:01,564 --> 00:56:05,904
Speaker 3: We're gonna blackball you for protesting police killing black folks,

1045
00:56:06,884 --> 00:56:08,784
Speaker 3: but also will you be the face of social justice

1046
00:56:08,824 --> 00:56:15,393
Speaker 3: for us? Like it's absurd. But also, you know, the

1047
00:56:15,433 --> 00:56:19,473
Speaker 3: third attempt was with Jay-Z. So I had all that context,

1048
00:56:20,513 --> 00:56:23,254
Speaker 3: shared that my one request coming out of that conversation

1049
00:56:23,294 --> 00:56:25,493
Speaker 3: was just keep my name out of it. Like, if

1050
00:56:25,513 --> 00:56:28,493
Speaker 3: you want to do a deal, do a deal. Own

1051
00:56:28,533 --> 00:56:30,174
Speaker 3: what comes with it, but keep me out of it.

1052
00:56:31,223 --> 00:56:33,564
Speaker 3: And we saw how he responded the next day in

1053
00:56:33,604 --> 00:56:37,223
Speaker 3: that press conference, you know, the we're past kneeling, trying

1054
00:56:37,243 --> 00:56:40,964
Speaker 3: to belittle the protest, the movement, all of that. In

1055
00:56:41,004 --> 00:56:43,104
Speaker 3: many ways, we see him aligned with the NFL owners.

1056
00:56:43,564 --> 00:56:48,223
Speaker 3: to be able to advance their interests. Now, again, I

1057
00:56:48,243 --> 00:56:52,383
Speaker 3: don't agree with the deal, but where my issue comes

1058
00:56:52,504 --> 00:56:56,534
Speaker 3: in is after that deal, because of the pushback that

1059
00:56:56,574 --> 00:56:59,954
Speaker 3: he got and the blowback that he got, then came

1060
00:57:00,254 --> 00:57:03,453
Speaker 3: all of the efforts to try to disparage me. And

1061
00:57:03,973 --> 00:57:07,554
Speaker 3: we got the calls from radio hosts and media hosts,

1062
00:57:08,074 --> 00:57:11,253
Speaker 3: media outlets. They're telling us right now, and his team's

1063
00:57:11,274 --> 00:57:14,933
Speaker 3: telling us, you don't want to play anymore. Oh, they're

1064
00:57:14,953 --> 00:57:17,594
Speaker 3: telling us you got multiple offers and you turn them down.

1065
00:57:18,754 --> 00:57:21,964
Speaker 3: And to me, it's one thing to say, hey, we

1066
00:57:22,004 --> 00:57:23,764
Speaker 3: have a difference of opinion and we're going to approach

1067
00:57:23,804 --> 00:57:27,544
Speaker 3: things differently. It's another to undermine a movement and then

1068
00:57:27,564 --> 00:57:30,064
Speaker 3: go out, try to disparage it and discredit in the

1069
00:57:30,104 --> 00:57:34,224
Speaker 3: process to make yourself look better. And also, even in

1070
00:57:34,264 --> 00:57:38,234
Speaker 3: thinking about the conversations that we're having right now, a

1071
00:57:38,294 --> 00:57:41,334
Speaker 3: lot of those conversations are because he did a freestyle

1072
00:57:41,354 --> 00:57:45,974
Speaker 3: a couple months ago. and brought me back up, and

1073
00:57:46,034 --> 00:57:49,744
Speaker 3: I didn't say anything. I didn't have anything to say

1074
00:57:49,804 --> 00:57:52,464
Speaker 3: about him. I'm focused on the work that we're doing

1075
00:57:52,504 --> 00:57:54,883
Speaker 3: and trying to advance. If you bring it back up

1076
00:57:55,664 --> 00:57:58,404
Speaker 3: in the midst of when we're going out and having conversations,

1077
00:57:58,934 --> 00:58:01,914
Speaker 3: people are going to ask. So I'm also not preemptively

1078
00:58:01,954 --> 00:58:03,504
Speaker 3: going out and looking to talk about it.

1079
00:58:04,354 --> 00:58:06,614
Speaker 2: And in the freestyle, he said that you had a

1080
00:58:06,734 --> 00:58:09,554
Speaker 2: non-disparagement agreement about the NFL. I think it's clear from

1081
00:58:09,594 --> 00:58:11,903
Speaker 2: tonight that you have not signed a non-disparagement agreement about

1082
00:58:11,924 --> 00:58:12,324
Speaker 2: the NFL.

1083
00:58:12,954 --> 00:58:16,194
Speaker 3: There is no non-disparagement. We will talk openly and freely

1084
00:58:16,234 --> 00:58:16,673
Speaker 3: about them.

1085
00:58:36,354 --> 00:58:39,294
Speaker 2: So you said the name Bob Kraft and people seem

1086
00:58:39,314 --> 00:58:42,924
Speaker 2: to have paid attention to the news recently. When the

1087
00:58:42,964 --> 00:58:47,374
Speaker 2: story happens with Ed Sheeran and Macklemore, and Macklemore says,

1088
00:58:48,294 --> 00:58:52,274
Speaker 2: free Palestine. What did he say?

1089
00:58:52,294 --> 00:58:52,874
Speaker 1: I can't remember.

1090
00:58:52,894 --> 00:58:55,734
Speaker 2: I can't remember.

1091
00:58:55,754 --> 00:58:59,584
Speaker 1: Free Palestine. OK, just want to make sure. I'm getting older.

1092
00:59:00,804 --> 00:59:06,724
Speaker 2: And like Macklemore says, that Sheeran told him that Bob

1093
00:59:06,744 --> 00:59:09,224
Speaker 2: Kraft called him and said that I'm not going to

1094
00:59:09,264 --> 00:59:12,074
Speaker 2: let you be in my stadium if Macklemore's on the tour.

1095
00:59:12,684 --> 00:59:17,254
Speaker 2: and I've called other billionaire NFL stadium owners to also agree.

1096
00:59:17,974 --> 00:59:20,744
Speaker 2: What's that called when billionaires all come together? It starts

1097
00:59:20,764 --> 00:59:21,274
Speaker 2: with a C?

1098
00:59:22,484 --> 00:59:23,424
Speaker 3: That would be collusion.

1099
00:59:23,564 --> 00:59:23,884
Speaker 2: Yes.

1100
00:59:24,264 --> 00:59:27,444
Speaker 3: That would be collusion. And doing it openly.

1101
00:59:27,584 --> 00:59:28,744
Speaker 1: Yes. Yeah.

1102
00:59:29,424 --> 00:59:31,884
Speaker 2: So I would imagine you had a very specific reaction

1103
00:59:31,904 --> 00:59:34,104
Speaker 2: to that when you had been fighting to say the

1104
00:59:34,144 --> 00:59:36,584
Speaker 2: NFL's colluded to not hire me, and then you see

1105
00:59:37,024 --> 00:59:39,404
Speaker 2: it happening in the world, and they're openly admitting it.

1106
00:59:41,114 --> 00:59:47,463
Speaker 3: Well, one, yes. Two, I think we should all think

1107
00:59:47,524 --> 00:59:53,944
Speaker 3: about in 2016 or 2017 as the NFL is colluding

1108
00:59:53,984 --> 00:59:57,244
Speaker 3: against me. At that point in time, they were trying

1109
00:59:57,264 --> 00:59:59,843
Speaker 3: to cover it up and hide it. And they were

1110
00:59:59,864 --> 01:00:02,814
Speaker 3: trying to pitch everybody on, no, we're not doing it.

1111
01:00:02,894 --> 01:00:06,374
Speaker 3: And they made up a list of reasons as to

1112
01:00:06,414 --> 01:00:10,404
Speaker 3: why I shouldn't be playing anymore. We're now at a

1113
01:00:10,474 --> 01:00:14,414
Speaker 3: point in 2026 where they have a level of comfort

1114
01:00:15,394 --> 01:00:18,914
Speaker 3: to actively play in our face and say, yeah, we'll

1115
01:00:18,934 --> 01:00:22,234
Speaker 3: collude and we'll say we're colluding. And what are you

1116
01:00:22,254 --> 01:00:26,784
Speaker 3: going to do about it? And I think that becomes

1117
01:00:26,844 --> 01:00:29,604
Speaker 3: a question for all of us is what actions are

1118
01:00:29,624 --> 01:00:32,084
Speaker 3: we willing to take to make sure that we send

1119
01:00:32,124 --> 01:00:34,624
Speaker 3: a message to them that we're not going to allow

1120
01:00:34,684 --> 01:00:37,434
Speaker 3: them to do this. So I think that is the

1121
01:00:37,474 --> 01:00:38,854
Speaker 3: opportunity in front of us as well.

1122
01:00:42,834 --> 01:00:45,914
Speaker 2: I would say one thing that I've noticed that the

1123
01:00:45,974 --> 01:00:49,014
Speaker 2: NFL and Jay-Z have been pretty successful about is turning

1124
01:00:49,054 --> 01:00:52,113
Speaker 2: these Super Bowl halftime shows into things that feel like

1125
01:00:52,394 --> 01:00:56,184
Speaker 2: bigger cultural moments so that people feel like they need

1126
01:00:56,224 --> 01:00:58,463
Speaker 2: to show up because there's a political message being said

1127
01:00:58,504 --> 01:01:01,184
Speaker 2: in the last couple years with Bad Bunny, with Kendrick.

1128
01:01:02,244 --> 01:01:04,724
Speaker 2: How do you navigate? Because I would imagine you're hearing

1129
01:01:04,764 --> 01:01:07,474
Speaker 2: about these things. oh my God, Kendrick's at the Super Bowl,

1130
01:01:07,534 --> 01:01:11,094
Speaker 2: Bad Bunny's at the Super Bowl, and people who align

1131
01:01:11,114 --> 01:01:13,584
Speaker 2: with you politically feel like they need to show up

1132
01:01:13,824 --> 01:01:18,204
Speaker 2: and watch these Super Bowl halftime shows. How does that sit?

1133
01:01:18,224 --> 01:01:20,064
Speaker 2: I would imagine people are going, did you see, oh no,

1134
01:01:20,084 --> 01:01:24,084
Speaker 2: you probably didn't see. And people who support you, but

1135
01:01:24,124 --> 01:01:25,724
Speaker 2: also want to see the Super Bowl halftime show.

1136
01:01:25,964 --> 01:01:26,454
Speaker 1: You know what I mean?

1137
01:01:27,384 --> 01:01:31,334
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, I think a lot of those in

1138
01:01:31,374 --> 01:01:35,314
Speaker 3: relation to why they feel like cultural moments and political

1139
01:01:35,354 --> 01:01:39,133
Speaker 3: moments is also because of how bad the NFL has

1140
01:01:39,154 --> 01:01:44,124
Speaker 3: been in relation to addressing issues. Like, getting someone black

1141
01:01:44,184 --> 01:01:51,744
Speaker 3: on stage for a halftime show felt revolutionary. And it's like, yeah,

1142
01:01:51,784 --> 01:01:55,443
Speaker 3: that should just be the norm because there's talented black

1143
01:01:55,544 --> 01:01:58,054
Speaker 3: artists that are some of the best in the world. Like,

1144
01:01:58,534 --> 01:02:00,694
Speaker 3: Bad Bunny is one of the biggest artists in the world.

1145
01:02:01,134 --> 01:02:03,554
Speaker 3: That's not even a political statement. He's just great at

1146
01:02:03,594 --> 01:02:04,034
Speaker 3: what he does.

1147
01:02:06,044 --> 01:02:06,944
Speaker 2: He's got the numbers.

1148
01:02:07,844 --> 01:02:11,024
Speaker 3: Ultimately, they're looking at this and making a business decision. Like,

1149
01:02:11,704 --> 01:02:15,264
Speaker 3: they want the most viewers. They're also looking at, well,

1150
01:02:15,324 --> 01:02:18,964
Speaker 3: what demographics are we trying to capture right now? We

1151
01:02:19,004 --> 01:02:21,564
Speaker 3: need black people? Okay, well, let's make sure we get

1152
01:02:21,604 --> 01:02:26,664
Speaker 3: more black halftime performers. Black people have been boycotting the NFL. Hey,

1153
01:02:27,024 --> 01:02:30,363
Speaker 3: we need to get more Latino viewers. Okay, well, we're

1154
01:02:30,384 --> 01:02:32,164
Speaker 3: going to bring Bad Bunny in to make sure we

1155
01:02:32,204 --> 01:02:37,544
Speaker 3: capture that demographic. And those become moments that in many

1156
01:02:37,584 --> 01:02:41,044
Speaker 3: ways feel political. And in some regard, they can be.

1157
01:02:41,924 --> 01:02:45,984
Speaker 3: But they also are not addressing the core issues politically.

1158
01:02:46,424 --> 01:02:49,823
Speaker 3: They're addressing everyday people's lives. And I think it's important

1159
01:02:49,844 --> 01:02:53,014
Speaker 3: for us to understand that while we have the entertainment

1160
01:02:53,034 --> 01:02:56,494
Speaker 3: that's being done, are they actually taking the actions to

1161
01:02:56,534 --> 01:02:58,254
Speaker 3: support communities in very real ways?

1162
01:02:58,974 --> 01:03:00,974
Speaker 1: Yes. No, they're not. Thank you for that. Thank you.

1163
01:03:02,514 --> 01:03:04,034
Speaker 1: A few more questions and we got to get out

1164
01:03:04,054 --> 01:03:04,334
Speaker 1: of here.

1165
01:03:05,534 --> 01:03:07,974
Speaker 2: So the other thing that we find out in the

1166
01:03:08,014 --> 01:03:10,914
Speaker 2: book is that your Know Your Right camps, you had

1167
01:03:10,934 --> 01:03:14,184
Speaker 2: started working on that before the kneeling. I think that's

1168
01:03:14,224 --> 01:03:15,944
Speaker 2: very important and the thing that we can't.

1169
01:03:15,984 --> 01:03:17,084
Speaker 1: Give it up for the Know Your Right camps.

1170
01:03:19,144 --> 01:03:21,204
Speaker 2: I always ask people on my podcasts if there's any

1171
01:03:21,244 --> 01:03:23,764
Speaker 2: causes they think people should know more about. It feels

1172
01:03:23,804 --> 01:03:25,653
Speaker 2: perfect to ask you, tell us about the Know Your

1173
01:03:25,674 --> 01:03:27,054
Speaker 2: Right camps and what's going on with them.

1174
01:03:29,374 --> 01:03:33,694
Speaker 3: So the Know Your Rights camp, We started ideating on

1175
01:03:33,734 --> 01:03:38,434
Speaker 3: this and bringing this to life at the end of 2015.

1176
01:03:38,434 --> 01:03:42,804
Speaker 3: And what actually kicked this off was the killing of

1177
01:03:42,824 --> 01:03:48,403
Speaker 3: Mario Woods. And I was sitting in the living room.

1178
01:03:49,664 --> 01:03:52,383
Speaker 3: I was watching the video. And I was like, he

1179
01:03:52,404 --> 01:03:57,073
Speaker 3: just got executed. Like, this is a firing squad. And

1180
01:03:57,654 --> 01:04:00,834
Speaker 3: on the tail end of that, I called my wife,

1181
01:04:00,894 --> 01:04:07,304
Speaker 3: then girlfriend, Nessa. And I'm like, we have to do something.

1182
01:04:08,584 --> 01:04:10,124
Speaker 3: We have to make sure that we make it home.

1183
01:04:11,924 --> 01:04:15,124
Speaker 3: And that was the initial impetus of Know Your Rights Camp.

1184
01:04:15,544 --> 01:04:18,054
Speaker 3: And from there, we started IDA, and how we build

1185
01:04:18,074 --> 01:04:21,154
Speaker 3: this out, what is that going to look like? And initially,

1186
01:04:21,194 --> 01:04:22,994
Speaker 3: it was, all right, we're going to teach the legal rights.

1187
01:04:23,014 --> 01:04:25,573
Speaker 3: We're going to teach the history. We're just going to

1188
01:04:25,594 --> 01:04:29,274
Speaker 3: make sure we make it home. And as we're going

1189
01:04:29,294 --> 01:04:32,814
Speaker 3: through that process, we're like, that feels like such a disservice.

1190
01:04:33,684 --> 01:04:35,923
Speaker 3: to say, hey, we're just going to do a camp

1191
01:04:35,944 --> 01:04:40,684
Speaker 3: to make sure we don't die. So that then became, well,

1192
01:04:40,884 --> 01:04:42,564
Speaker 3: what are all of the things that we can do

1193
01:04:42,644 --> 01:04:45,104
Speaker 3: to try to make sure our communities are thriving and

1194
01:04:45,124 --> 01:04:48,184
Speaker 3: we're able to build stronger communities? And that advanced the

1195
01:04:48,224 --> 01:04:51,403
Speaker 3: programming within Know Your Rights Camp. At this point, we've

1196
01:04:51,424 --> 01:04:54,883
Speaker 3: done Know Your Rights Camps across the country. We've done

1197
01:04:54,924 --> 01:05:00,474
Speaker 3: it internationally. And those in many ways become an organizing

1198
01:05:00,534 --> 01:05:03,153
Speaker 3: function for us where we can continue to do work

1199
01:05:03,194 --> 01:05:05,864
Speaker 3: directly in communities in all of the places that we've been,

1200
01:05:06,704 --> 01:05:09,744
Speaker 3: in partnership with the organizations that are doing work directly

1201
01:05:09,824 --> 01:05:12,644
Speaker 3: on the ground as well. Now, out of that, we've

1202
01:05:12,684 --> 01:05:15,824
Speaker 3: also built an autopsy initiative where we do free second

1203
01:05:15,884 --> 01:05:22,394
Speaker 3: independent autopsies.

1204
01:05:25,694 --> 01:05:26,194
Speaker 1: Of course.

1205
01:05:26,594 --> 01:05:29,213
Speaker 3: And this is for families who have lost a loved

1206
01:05:29,294 --> 01:05:34,974
Speaker 3: one in custody. whether that's police custody, whether that's incarceration,

1207
01:05:36,064 --> 01:05:41,823
Speaker 3: detention centers, ICE detention centers. So we were trying to

1208
01:05:41,864 --> 01:05:44,104
Speaker 3: address the needs in that way, and part of the

1209
01:05:44,124 --> 01:05:47,304
Speaker 3: reason that became a focal point, a little bit of background,

1210
01:05:47,924 --> 01:05:52,374
Speaker 3: is my lawyer, who was representing me in the NFL,

1211
01:05:53,254 --> 01:05:57,834
Speaker 3: previously had a case in Bakersfield. He had a client,

1212
01:05:59,724 --> 01:06:04,383
Speaker 3: the family had someone who was killed by police, but

1213
01:06:04,424 --> 01:06:12,214
Speaker 3: the sheriff was also the coroner. So I learned that

1214
01:06:12,254 --> 01:06:15,554
Speaker 3: that is not that uncommon. And in the instances that

1215
01:06:15,574 --> 01:06:19,104
Speaker 3: that's not the case, the relationship between the two entities

1216
01:06:19,184 --> 01:06:22,984
Speaker 3: is very close. So how do we bring transparency and

1217
01:06:23,044 --> 01:06:27,604
Speaker 3: clarity to that process? We put together Independent forensic pathologists

1218
01:06:27,664 --> 01:06:29,404
Speaker 3: that now do this work to be able to support

1219
01:06:29,454 --> 01:06:34,654
Speaker 3: families In 2020 we launched a legal defense initiative to

1220
01:06:34,694 --> 01:06:44,494
Speaker 3: protect protesters across the country pro bono legal services And

1221
01:06:44,944 --> 01:06:47,784
Speaker 3: this is in the wake of George Floyd being killed

1222
01:06:48,244 --> 01:06:52,294
Speaker 3: and everybody taking to the streets protesting that and being

1223
01:06:52,354 --> 01:06:55,954
Speaker 3: attacked in that process of protesting police killing Black folks again.

1224
01:06:58,134 --> 01:07:03,194
Speaker 3: We launched a COVID-19 initiative, providing PPE, providing rent relief,

1225
01:07:04,934 --> 01:07:07,713
Speaker 3: buying food from Black-owned businesses to be able to buoy them,

1226
01:07:07,834 --> 01:07:13,834
Speaker 3: and then distributing that into the community. So with Know

1227
01:07:13,854 --> 01:07:16,874
Speaker 3: Your Rights Holistically, we've just tried to approach it from

1228
01:07:16,914 --> 01:07:19,754
Speaker 3: a space of where the needs that are showing up

1229
01:07:19,794 --> 01:07:22,233
Speaker 3: in our community And how do we try to build

1230
01:07:22,294 --> 01:07:25,463
Speaker 3: a program around that to address those needs? And then

1231
01:07:25,504 --> 01:07:26,964
Speaker 3: how do we try to make sure we spread that

1232
01:07:27,004 --> 01:07:27,884
Speaker 3: as far as possible?

1233
01:07:28,664 --> 01:07:35,264
Speaker 2: Thank you for that. Thank you for that. And I

1234
01:07:35,304 --> 01:07:37,484
Speaker 2: want to highlight that you also did some work for

1235
01:07:37,524 --> 01:07:40,653
Speaker 2: Nolan Wells' family recently. I just think it's important, too,

1236
01:07:40,694 --> 01:07:44,713
Speaker 2: that we uplift his name. And also, please speak on that.

1237
01:07:44,734 --> 01:07:53,554
Speaker 3: I mean, in the The Nolan Wells case, it is

1238
01:07:54,094 --> 01:07:56,994
Speaker 3: imperative that we do everything we can to try to

1239
01:07:57,034 --> 01:08:01,354
Speaker 3: have transparency in that process, in clarity in that process.

1240
01:08:04,934 --> 01:08:07,924
Speaker 3: I feel deeply for his family. Not only is it

1241
01:08:07,944 --> 01:08:12,724
Speaker 3: a tragedy, but the actions that have been taken after that,

1242
01:08:13,524 --> 01:08:17,404
Speaker 3: that the family has had to endure, I think is

1243
01:08:17,424 --> 01:08:22,534
Speaker 3: pretty horrendous. I also think the legal process, at least

1244
01:08:22,574 --> 01:08:25,594
Speaker 3: what has been shared publicly thus far, has been horrendous.

1245
01:08:27,134 --> 01:08:30,804
Speaker 3: And collectively as a community, any lever that we can

1246
01:08:30,884 --> 01:08:35,324
Speaker 3: pull to try to help advance getting clarity and understanding

1247
01:08:35,364 --> 01:08:38,424
Speaker 3: of what truly happened are things that we should be doing.

1248
01:08:39,164 --> 01:08:41,794
Speaker 3: And for us, that was being able to support the

1249
01:08:41,834 --> 01:08:46,754
Speaker 3: second autopsy and trying to get some clarity around that. Now,

1250
01:08:46,814 --> 01:08:50,354
Speaker 3: as part of that, what was received in the second autopsy,

1251
01:08:50,374 --> 01:08:54,274
Speaker 3: you know, Nolan Wells throat was missing, his lungs were missing. Um,

1252
01:08:56,034 --> 01:08:58,934
Speaker 3: there were areas that we were not able to get

1253
01:08:59,014 --> 01:09:04,274
Speaker 3: clarity around because we actually didn't have, um, we didn't

1254
01:09:04,334 --> 01:09:07,114
Speaker 3: have everything that was needed for the forensic pathologist.

1255
01:09:08,694 --> 01:09:10,574
Speaker 2: Well, first of all, thank you for stepping into that.

1256
01:09:10,634 --> 01:09:12,454
Speaker 2: And thank you for speaking on that. And also, I

1257
01:09:12,494 --> 01:09:15,614
Speaker 2: think it's important because, and I joke earlier about how

1258
01:09:15,634 --> 01:09:18,254
Speaker 2: you're outside a lot now, I think sometimes, I know

1259
01:09:18,294 --> 01:09:20,784
Speaker 2: you don't want credit for all this stuff, but I

1260
01:09:20,784 --> 01:09:22,664
Speaker 2: think it's important that the people know that you're doing

1261
01:09:22,704 --> 01:09:26,624
Speaker 2: this stuff, that you're doing all this work, that it

1262
01:09:26,684 --> 01:09:30,584
Speaker 2: wasn't just about kneeling 10 years ago and getting a

1263
01:09:30,624 --> 01:09:33,924
Speaker 2: settlement check or whatever, that you are out there doing

1264
01:09:33,964 --> 01:09:37,524
Speaker 2: the work regularly or assigning people around you who know

1265
01:09:37,544 --> 01:09:38,784
Speaker 2: how to do the work to do the work. So

1266
01:09:38,824 --> 01:09:41,344
Speaker 2: I think it's important that you do all that. How

1267
01:09:41,384 --> 01:09:43,844
Speaker 2: do you feel about the fact that because you have

1268
01:09:43,944 --> 01:09:46,924
Speaker 2: entered cultural icon status in a way that few do,

1269
01:09:47,824 --> 01:09:50,144
Speaker 2: but that means people then can use you for whatever,

1270
01:09:50,664 --> 01:09:53,834
Speaker 2: they'll throw on your jersey to say they're with you

1271
01:09:54,734 --> 01:09:57,634
Speaker 2: and they may not actually be with you. What is

1272
01:09:57,674 --> 01:10:00,364
Speaker 2: it like to be sort of like, a thing that

1273
01:10:00,404 --> 01:10:02,504
Speaker 2: is Colin Kaepernick that is separate from the man that

1274
01:10:02,564 --> 01:10:03,384
Speaker 2: is Colin Kaepernick?

1275
01:10:06,164 --> 01:10:08,764
Speaker 3: I'm going to be honest. I haven't really thought about

1276
01:10:08,804 --> 01:10:09,604
Speaker 3: that a whole lot.

1277
01:10:09,984 --> 01:10:11,164
Speaker 2: I'm glad I asked the new question.

1278
01:10:11,224 --> 01:10:11,884
Speaker 1: I'm really proud of that.

1279
01:10:12,164 --> 01:10:13,724
Speaker 3: I haven't thought about that a whole lot.

1280
01:10:13,744 --> 01:10:15,784
Speaker 2: I just think about it because I see it happen

1281
01:10:15,804 --> 01:10:18,084
Speaker 2: to other people I know. But when somebody will step

1282
01:10:18,144 --> 01:10:22,124
Speaker 2: on stage with a Kaepernick jersey, they're sort of almost like, well,

1283
01:10:22,264 --> 01:10:25,234
Speaker 2: I'm with him. So then everything I do must be

1284
01:10:25,274 --> 01:10:26,554
Speaker 2: connected to him. You know what I mean?

1285
01:10:27,214 --> 01:10:30,874
Speaker 3: Yeah. But what I hope in those moments is as

1286
01:10:31,514 --> 01:10:33,934
Speaker 3: people are doing that, that they go out and take

1287
01:10:33,954 --> 01:10:37,284
Speaker 3: the actions to be able to support that. Because I'm

1288
01:10:37,364 --> 01:10:41,024
Speaker 3: truly grateful for people supporting and showing up in that way.

1289
01:10:41,784 --> 01:10:44,924
Speaker 3: But what is more important than that is we're doing

1290
01:10:44,964 --> 01:10:46,784
Speaker 3: the work to be able to support people directly on

1291
01:10:46,804 --> 01:10:52,924
Speaker 3: the ground. And I think while there are moments that

1292
01:10:52,944 --> 01:10:56,184
Speaker 3: people may feel like this is the cool thing to

1293
01:10:56,244 --> 01:10:59,704
Speaker 3: do or I want to support in that way. This

1294
01:10:59,784 --> 01:11:04,914
Speaker 3: is very real impact on people's lives. The actions that

1295
01:11:04,954 --> 01:11:07,654
Speaker 3: we take and how we show up every day has

1296
01:11:07,774 --> 01:11:12,934
Speaker 3: real impact on people's lives. And in some of those instances,

1297
01:11:13,274 --> 01:11:18,073
Speaker 3: that is life or death. So I think there's also

1298
01:11:18,434 --> 01:11:21,674
Speaker 3: a seriousness that we need to approach this with of

1299
01:11:21,714 --> 01:11:23,334
Speaker 3: we have to go out and do the work. We

1300
01:11:23,394 --> 01:11:25,744
Speaker 3: have to take the actions to be able to build

1301
01:11:25,784 --> 01:11:28,884
Speaker 3: and support each other And when people do throw a

1302
01:11:28,924 --> 01:11:32,464
Speaker 3: jersey on or stepping into a space, they're like, oh,

1303
01:11:32,914 --> 01:11:36,694
Speaker 3: I support. I appreciate it. And also, let's go out

1304
01:11:36,734 --> 01:11:37,734
Speaker 3: and do the work behind it.

1305
01:11:38,474 --> 01:11:39,094
Speaker 1: Yes, yes.

1306
01:11:41,474 --> 01:11:43,594
Speaker 2: Wear the jersey, but also bring receipts of the work

1307
01:11:43,614 --> 01:11:49,074
Speaker 2: you've done. Do you, Colin Kaepernick, I'm looking at you.

1308
01:11:49,094 --> 01:11:52,454
Speaker 2: You seem like you're in pretty good shape, brother. I

1309
01:11:52,494 --> 01:11:54,774
Speaker 2: hear you have a pretty strenuous workout routine that you

1310
01:11:54,894 --> 01:11:56,114
Speaker 2: seem to be sticking to.

1311
01:11:56,954 --> 01:11:58,454
Speaker 1: Do you believe there's still football in you?

1312
01:11:59,374 --> 01:12:10,924
Speaker 3: Absolutely. Absolutely. I will say also my training routine has

1313
01:12:10,944 --> 01:12:14,564
Speaker 3: created tension in our household because Nessa is mad when

1314
01:12:14,604 --> 01:12:19,784
Speaker 3: I wake up early in the morning. Her number one

1315
01:12:19,904 --> 01:12:22,844
Speaker 3: pet peeve is my protein shaker in the morning. I

1316
01:12:25,254 --> 01:12:29,654
Speaker 3: wake up, I make my shake, and it's Try to

1317
01:12:29,664 --> 01:12:31,594
Speaker 3: have me close the doors. There was one point she

1318
01:12:31,614 --> 01:12:32,894
Speaker 3: was like, if you're going to do it, go in

1319
01:12:32,914 --> 01:12:40,914
Speaker 3: the closet. So it's 445 in the morning. I'm in

1320
01:12:40,934 --> 01:12:45,944
Speaker 3: the closet shaking a protein shake. But still do my

1321
01:12:45,984 --> 01:12:48,304
Speaker 3: workouts every day, still train to make sure I'm ready

1322
01:12:48,364 --> 01:12:51,604
Speaker 3: and prepared. I think there's still a lot of football

1323
01:12:51,624 --> 01:12:52,204
Speaker 3: for me to play.

1324
01:12:53,744 --> 01:12:59,164
Speaker 1: Good to know. Good to know. Good to know. You've

1325
01:12:59,184 --> 01:13:01,804
Speaker 1: talked about Nessa a little bit. Spare some words for Nessa.

1326
01:13:02,224 --> 01:13:04,584
Speaker 2: Because in the book, it's very clear that she is

1327
01:13:04,624 --> 01:13:08,074
Speaker 2: the fire underneath, you know, that lights that get you

1328
01:13:08,114 --> 01:13:09,694
Speaker 2: lit up in every way.

1329
01:13:09,714 --> 01:13:22,374
Speaker 3: Yeah, shout out to Nessa, y'all. Well, one, obviously, love

1330
01:13:22,434 --> 01:13:26,344
Speaker 3: Nessa deeply. But as we talk about, you know, some

1331
01:13:26,384 --> 01:13:29,644
Speaker 3: of my own journey, Nessa is someone who She is

1332
01:13:29,664 --> 01:13:31,904
Speaker 3: the person that gave me the autobiography of Malcolm X.

1333
01:13:33,334 --> 01:13:36,794
Speaker 3: She is the person, as I was growing my hair

1334
01:13:36,874 --> 01:13:40,874
Speaker 3: out this time around and was pressed on, like, oh,

1335
01:13:40,914 --> 01:13:43,114
Speaker 3: don't you think he should cut his hair? Like, don't

1336
01:13:43,134 --> 01:13:44,574
Speaker 3: you think it would look more professional?

1337
01:13:44,974 --> 01:13:46,294
Speaker 1: Like your parents doing that?

1338
01:13:46,674 --> 01:13:49,834
Speaker 3: Yep. And she was like, no, I love his hair.

1339
01:13:50,714 --> 01:13:56,443
Speaker 3: And it was... Those moments become incredibly important.

1340
01:13:57,104 --> 01:13:57,504
Speaker 2: But also.

1341
01:13:58,644 --> 01:14:03,624
Speaker 3: As I protested in 2016, that's not something she ever

1342
01:14:03,784 --> 01:14:08,924
Speaker 3: asked for. And she didn't blink. It was immediately, okay, well,

1343
01:14:08,964 --> 01:14:15,594
Speaker 3: what do we have to do? And that, I would

1344
01:14:15,614 --> 01:14:19,394
Speaker 3: say having a partner that has that level of conviction

1345
01:14:20,174 --> 01:14:22,234
Speaker 3: and does not bat an eye allows you to go

1346
01:14:22,294 --> 01:14:24,073
Speaker 3: out into the world and show up in the world

1347
01:14:24,634 --> 01:14:27,614
Speaker 3: in a very definitive way. because you know you have

1348
01:14:27,654 --> 01:14:30,094
Speaker 3: someone that is right there by your side through it all.

1349
01:14:31,224 --> 01:14:36,404
Speaker 3: And I will say, as I am out in the world,

1350
01:14:36,764 --> 01:14:42,164
Speaker 3: and I think I can take pretty strong positions at times,

1351
01:14:43,864 --> 01:14:48,914
Speaker 3: Nessa also has a fire in her. But that fire

1352
01:14:48,964 --> 01:14:51,774
Speaker 3: is always towards the people and making sure that she

1353
01:14:51,854 --> 01:14:53,934
Speaker 3: is taking care of people and looking out for people.

1354
01:14:54,514 --> 01:14:56,694
Speaker 3: And that is just part of who she is as well.

1355
01:14:58,414 --> 01:15:01,134
Speaker 3: So I hope everybody goes out and finds themselves a

1356
01:15:01,174 --> 01:15:07,484
Speaker 3: Nessa because it is so important. And the impact that

1357
01:15:07,504 --> 01:15:10,224
Speaker 3: it has on your life is life changing.

1358
01:15:11,244 --> 01:15:18,734
Speaker 1: Great. Now, talk about being a dad.

1359
01:15:18,754 --> 01:15:25,574
Speaker 3: Oh, man. I love being a dad. It is so

1360
01:15:25,634 --> 01:15:31,974
Speaker 3: much fun. I have a four-year-old girl running around at home.

1361
01:15:34,414 --> 01:15:38,044
Speaker 3: It is so interesting to me to go through the

1362
01:15:38,064 --> 01:15:41,323
Speaker 3: process of like, you want to love on them so much.

1363
01:15:42,944 --> 01:15:45,384
Speaker 3: At the same time, you have to hold the boundaries

1364
01:15:45,444 --> 01:15:48,064
Speaker 3: and guardrails of like, no, we got to get these

1365
01:15:48,104 --> 01:15:54,314
Speaker 3: things done. But it's, To me, it's been interesting to

1366
01:15:54,334 --> 01:15:57,354
Speaker 3: be able to walk down this path of I want

1367
01:15:57,414 --> 01:16:00,094
Speaker 3: her to be independent. I want her to be bold.

1368
01:16:00,174 --> 01:16:03,594
Speaker 3: I want her to be fierce. But that also means

1369
01:16:03,864 --> 01:16:07,564
Speaker 3: in our own household, I know her first tests are

1370
01:16:07,584 --> 01:16:11,044
Speaker 3: going to be on us. And to give you a

1371
01:16:11,084 --> 01:16:13,364
Speaker 3: little bit of sense of who this little girl is,

1372
01:16:15,544 --> 01:16:19,834
Speaker 3: this was a couple months ago. And we're sitting at

1373
01:16:19,854 --> 01:16:24,124
Speaker 3: the dinner table. And she had not been doing a

1374
01:16:24,154 --> 01:16:27,334
Speaker 3: great job listening this day. She wasn't doing a great

1375
01:16:27,354 --> 01:16:34,134
Speaker 3: job with dinner. And she goes, well, Bubba, after dinner,

1376
01:16:34,174 --> 01:16:38,394
Speaker 3: can I play? At this point, I'm frustrated. I'm like, no,

1377
01:16:38,754 --> 01:16:41,974
Speaker 3: because one, you haven't ate your food. Two, you haven't

1378
01:16:41,994 --> 01:16:47,474
Speaker 3: done this. Three, you haven't done that. She goes, what's four? Oh!

1379
01:16:53,194 --> 01:16:56,434
Speaker 3: And that gave me some insight into what I'm going

1380
01:16:56,454 --> 01:16:58,504
Speaker 3: to be navigating for the rest of my life.

1381
01:16:58,514 --> 01:17:00,964
Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen, Colin Kaepernick.

1382
01:17:04,024 --> 01:17:14,094
Speaker 2: Colin Kaepernick. Thanks for listening to who's with me. Thanks

1383
01:17:14,154 --> 01:17:16,874
Speaker 2: to Colin Kaepernick. Thanks to his whole crew. Thanks to

1384
01:17:16,954 --> 01:17:19,694
Speaker 2: Tone who was there. It was a wild scene that night.

1385
01:17:19,734 --> 01:17:22,094
Speaker 2: There's a lot of people in the house. There was

1386
01:17:22,174 --> 01:17:24,214
Speaker 2: a lot going on. My mom came. Here, here's a

1387
01:17:24,234 --> 01:17:26,154
Speaker 2: picture of me and my mom and Colin Kaepernick. It's

1388
01:17:26,174 --> 01:17:27,614
Speaker 2: like a special Easter egg at the end of this.

1389
01:17:27,854 --> 01:17:30,113
Speaker 2: Colin was super nice to my mom. My mom was super,

1390
01:17:30,714 --> 01:17:32,994
Speaker 2: you know, she really connected with him.

1391
01:17:33,014 --> 01:17:33,734
Speaker 1: It was great to see.

1392
01:17:33,754 --> 01:17:36,974
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he really listened to my mom, which I

1393
01:17:37,014 --> 01:17:40,524
Speaker 2: just appreciated. You could tell he wasn't just paying lip service.

1394
01:17:40,544 --> 01:17:42,144
Speaker 2: He was actually paying attention to my mom, which was

1395
01:17:42,184 --> 01:17:44,984
Speaker 2: great for me to see. Again, his book, The Perilous Fight,

1396
01:17:45,044 --> 01:17:47,264
Speaker 2: is out now. I listen to it as an audio book.

1397
01:17:47,304 --> 01:17:48,724
Speaker 2: It's great as an audio book, but you can also

1398
01:17:48,764 --> 01:17:52,234
Speaker 2: get it in old school bookstore form. Get it for

1399
01:17:52,254 --> 01:17:53,594
Speaker 2: wherever you get your bookstores. I would say go to

1400
01:17:53,634 --> 01:17:56,234
Speaker 2: an independent bookstore because independent bookstores are guaranteed to be

1401
01:17:56,254 --> 01:17:58,274
Speaker 2: carrying this book, and it means a lot to spend

1402
01:17:58,294 --> 01:18:00,674
Speaker 2: that money locally. Or you can go to bookshop.org to

1403
01:18:00,694 --> 01:18:03,574
Speaker 2: get his book there, where you can also preorder my

1404
01:18:03,594 --> 01:18:07,464
Speaker 2: debut children's book that comes out in a couple weeks, Rock, Paper, Scissors, Cheese.

1405
01:18:07,674 --> 01:18:09,944
Speaker 2: So yeah, you get Colin's book and my book as

1406
01:18:09,984 --> 01:18:12,884
Speaker 2: a two-pack. All the links are in the show notes.

1407
01:18:13,624 --> 01:18:16,604
Speaker 2: And Colin mentioned his organization, Know Your Rights. You can

1408
01:18:16,644 --> 01:18:19,164
Speaker 2: find out more about them at knowyourrights.org. It's about teaching

1409
01:18:19,364 --> 01:18:23,084
Speaker 2: young folks, young black folks about how to navigate white supremacy.

1410
01:18:23,104 --> 01:18:25,464
Speaker 2: That's what my takeaway is and how to, and to

1411
01:18:25,504 --> 01:18:31,084
Speaker 2: teach them more about their world and civic engagement and

1412
01:18:31,154 --> 01:18:32,894
Speaker 2: to inspire them to achieve a lot in life. And

1413
01:18:32,934 --> 01:18:34,874
Speaker 2: it's been going, as he said, they started planning this

1414
01:18:34,914 --> 01:18:37,714
Speaker 2: before he ever took a knee. So he's really been

1415
01:18:37,734 --> 01:18:40,234
Speaker 2: committed to this for a long time. Again, special thanks

1416
01:18:40,254 --> 01:18:43,054
Speaker 2: to Marcus Books and the National Association of Black Booksellers.

1417
01:18:43,734 --> 01:18:46,914
Speaker 2: And thanks to the Black Repertory Theater. And thanks to

1418
01:18:46,964 --> 01:18:50,744
Speaker 2: Rapid Green Productions, Pushkin Industries, and who knows Best Productions.

1419
01:18:51,164 --> 01:18:54,084
Speaker 2: Special thanks to Chris Dowd from Fishbone. I talked to

1420
01:18:54,124 --> 01:18:56,804
Speaker 2: Chris Dowd last week. Fishbone is currently working on their

1421
01:18:56,824 --> 01:18:59,364
Speaker 2: new album. And as the official ambassador for Fishbone, I

1422
01:18:59,444 --> 01:19:02,684
Speaker 2: feel responsible to tell you. And again, this week, do

1423
01:19:02,704 --> 01:19:05,684
Speaker 2: something good for yourself, for your community, and for the world.

1424
01:19:05,964 --> 01:19:08,864
Speaker 2: And also make sure you're registered to vote. You can

1425
01:19:08,884 --> 01:19:12,044
Speaker 2: go to vote.org or aclu.org slash vote. Man, you got

1426
01:19:12,064 --> 01:19:13,704
Speaker 2: a lot of homework this week. Make sure you're registered

1427
01:19:13,724 --> 01:19:14,724
Speaker 2: to vote for those midterms.

1428
01:19:15,804 --> 01:19:16,104
Speaker 1: Thank you.

1429
01:19:16,124 --> 01:19:16,924
Speaker 3: Thank you.