WEBVTT - QLS Classic: Shep Gordon 0:00:00.400 --> 0:00:03.800 Of Course Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This 0:00:03.880 --> 0:00:09.800 classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. Yo Yo, 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:10.119 what up. 0:00:10.119 --> 0:00:13.680 This is Fante back again with another QLs classic. 0:00:14.000 --> 0:00:16.440 This one we take this from back to October. 0:00:16.000 --> 0:00:19.639 Sixteenth, twenty sixteen. This was episode six of our show 0:00:20.079 --> 0:00:22.440 where we sat down with one of the most iconic 0:00:22.520 --> 0:00:25.960 managers in all of music. Shep Gordon came in to 0:00:26.040 --> 0:00:28.680 Quest Love Supreme and he talked about his time of 0:00:28.760 --> 0:00:32.720 Luther Vandroz, Tip Pendergrass and Alice Cooper and countless others. 0:00:32.760 --> 0:00:35.440 This is a really fun episode. Shep was a lot 0:00:35.440 --> 0:00:39.120 of fun. Y'all enjoy this CURELS classic. It's Fontaino yeh. 0:00:49.280 --> 0:00:55.760 Supremo So so up, Suprema roll call Supriva Suck Suck Supremo, 0:00:56.000 --> 0:01:05.080 roll Call Supreme, Suprema. 0:01:02.960 --> 0:01:06.560 Supreme a roll. My name is quest Love. Yeah, I 0:01:06.760 --> 0:01:10.480 have a fence. Yeah, don't get mad Steve. Yeah, I 0:01:10.560 --> 0:01:11.600 didn't rhyme the words you think. 0:01:13.000 --> 0:01:19.440 Suprema Son Supreme, A role called Suprema son Son Suprema, 0:01:19.640 --> 0:01:20.480 role called. 0:01:21.880 --> 0:01:26.120 Yeah I am a Trooper. Yeah. My favorite single Yeah 0:01:26.240 --> 0:01:27.160 it was Jimmy. 0:01:28.959 --> 0:01:35.400 Apreca Son Supreme. A role called Suprema, So Supreme, A 0:01:35.640 --> 0:01:36.520 role called. 0:01:36.360 --> 0:01:40.120 My name is Sugar. Yeah, you know my stanch. Yeah, 0:01:40.319 --> 0:01:44.160 it's nice to meet you. Yeah, Superman Show. 0:01:44.880 --> 0:01:49.840 Supreme Son Son Supreme, roll call Supreme So. 0:01:50.760 --> 0:01:54.440 Supreme, A role call Lost Bill is here. Yeah, Quest 0:01:54.520 --> 0:01:58.880 Love Supreme. Yeah, thank you for listening. Yeah, this Pandora 0:01:59.000 --> 0:02:02.000 stream Bro Suprema. 0:02:01.800 --> 0:02:07.680 Son Son Suprema roll call Suprema Son Son Suprema roll 0:02:07.880 --> 0:02:08.560 call my name. 0:02:09.680 --> 0:02:11.320 Yeah, I love the brothers. 0:02:11.720 --> 0:02:11.919 Yeah. 0:02:12.440 --> 0:02:15.000 But Chef, Yeah about. 0:02:14.800 --> 0:02:23.880 The Suprema roll call Suprema Son Suprema roll. 0:02:23.919 --> 0:02:25.799 Call my neighbor, Chef. 0:02:25.919 --> 0:02:29.840 Yeah, I come from MAUI. Yeah, I'm looking for a joint. Yeah, 0:02:29.960 --> 0:02:31.480 and I have no idea how to Ryan. 0:02:39.520 --> 0:02:45.600 Roll call Suprema some some Supremo roll call Suprema some 0:02:46.040 --> 0:02:47.960 something Supremo roll call. 0:02:49.960 --> 0:02:51.280 That was perfect. 0:02:54.880 --> 0:02:57.360 What's up, ladies and gentlemen. This is Quest Love. How 0:02:57.400 --> 0:03:00.840 you doing. We are alive at Electric Lady Studio. I'm 0:03:00.880 --> 0:03:08.520 sitting here with Team Supreme. How you doing, guys? Yeah right, 0:03:08.600 --> 0:03:14.519 all right, Oh man, I'm really I'm really excited today 0:03:14.720 --> 0:03:23.040 because the the Guru of all gurus, one of the best, 0:03:23.120 --> 0:03:28.239 most powerful managers, most effective managers, and music uh is 0:03:28.320 --> 0:03:33.480 with us today. Shep Gordon, He I mean some of 0:03:33.520 --> 0:03:39.640 the greatest name of the Luther Vanros, Alice Cooper, Blondie Blondie, 0:03:40.760 --> 0:03:48.200 Teddy Wait food. He does food too. That's amazing. Yes, 0:03:48.440 --> 0:03:53.280 of course he invented the food. So we're just going 0:03:53.360 --> 0:03:56.080 to try and I actually want to pick his brain. 0:03:56.640 --> 0:03:59.880 Just not many people know that have seen the Superman 0:04:00.240 --> 0:04:04.080 documentary that Mike Myers did For those that don't know, 0:04:04.280 --> 0:04:08.880 when they were shooting Wayne's World and requested Alice Cooper 0:04:09.040 --> 0:04:11.400 to come on the movie to do a cameo We're 0:04:11.480 --> 0:04:15.800 not worthy, We're not worthy. That's how Mike Myers got 0:04:15.880 --> 0:04:19.400 to know SHEF Gordon, And when he heard his life story, 0:04:19.440 --> 0:04:21.120 he was like, one day, I'm gonna make a story 0:04:21.160 --> 0:04:24.960 of your life. So, I mean some nineteen twenty years 0:04:25.040 --> 0:04:30.240 later he made that documentary. But because Shep's clientele is 0:04:30.360 --> 0:04:36.680 so expansive and lodge, not many people know that he 0:04:37.000 --> 0:04:41.400 has managed some of the greatest, most powerful names in 0:04:41.880 --> 0:04:45.640 black music. I mean they cover Teddy Pendergrass, but I mean, 0:04:46.000 --> 0:04:49.560 as we mentioned, like mid nice stars in the point. 0:04:49.440 --> 0:04:56.200 Ye Kenny Loggins, right, Keay Loggins was black for a 0:04:56.240 --> 0:04:59.440 couple of the great voices thank him justin. 0:05:01.000 --> 0:05:04.320 Yeah, you're right, you're right. So we're gonna pick his 0:05:04.440 --> 0:05:08.279 brain a little bit. But you know how, I want 0:05:08.279 --> 0:05:11.480 to know how you guys are doing. What's up? Man, 0:05:11.520 --> 0:05:12.880 I'm in the middle of trying to move from my 0:05:12.920 --> 0:05:16.760 goddamn house. It is tiring. It is tired. Man. You're 0:05:16.800 --> 0:05:19.240 doing it on your own. Hell no, I'm hiring movers. 0:05:20.839 --> 0:05:21.840 What part is tiring. 0:05:23.000 --> 0:05:26.000 It's just like because you don't realize how much ship 0:05:26.120 --> 0:05:29.720 you have until you start taking away ship that you 0:05:29.880 --> 0:05:30.720 sit your ship on. 0:05:31.200 --> 0:05:36.360 So you know, you have a little TV on the 0:05:36.560 --> 0:05:40.719 big TV. I'm not that good. I'm you know, I'm 0:05:40.760 --> 0:05:43.200 past the did you once have a small TV on it? 0:05:45.120 --> 0:05:48.159 We had we had the floor model that didn't work, 0:05:48.520 --> 0:05:50.600 and then we had the TV on top of it. 0:05:51.040 --> 0:05:53.560 Yet that you know that did that had? You know 0:05:53.680 --> 0:05:54.960 it had the big back a little bit? 0:05:55.080 --> 0:05:58.120 So nah man, But nah, I'm in the process of moving, 0:05:58.200 --> 0:06:00.680 you know what I'm saying, and packing up all my 0:06:00.880 --> 0:06:03.440 music and that's like been the biggest thing, like clearing 0:06:03.480 --> 0:06:06.599 my media rat with all my like CDs and vinyl 0:06:06.800 --> 0:06:08.040 and CDs. 0:06:07.680 --> 0:06:11.120 And still keep your CDs in your cassettes, not my Cossetts. 0:06:11.160 --> 0:06:13.760 I don't, but my CDs I do. My whole thing 0:06:13.880 --> 0:06:16.000 is like, aw, you're gonna have to downsize that. You're like, 0:06:17.120 --> 0:06:19.479 I did I have? I have downside? I cold her. 0:06:19.560 --> 0:06:22.000 I think I got like maybe like two hundred copies 0:06:22.680 --> 0:06:24.960 of the two hundred CDs away. 0:06:25.320 --> 0:06:26.960 So I got two hundred out and it was just 0:06:27.040 --> 0:06:29.320 stuff that threw them away. No, no, no, not throw away. 0:06:29.320 --> 0:06:31.160 I just throw away. I donated them. I donated them 0:06:31.200 --> 0:06:33.560 like a good will or whatever. Not seeing them again, 0:06:33.640 --> 0:06:35.200 you would have hated me in two thousand and nine. 0:06:35.839 --> 0:06:38.640 Well you gave stuff away. I threw stuff away? Oh wow, 0:06:38.760 --> 0:06:41.040 what did you throw away? This a whole like. This 0:06:41.360 --> 0:06:43.800 was right at the end of my record label days. 0:06:43.920 --> 0:06:46.280 So I had a ton of just shitty promos and 0:06:46.520 --> 0:06:49.160 stuff that couldn't sell them for anything, so I just 0:06:49.200 --> 0:06:50.040 put them on the corner. 0:06:50.440 --> 0:06:51.520 I used to sell them on Amazon. 0:06:51.560 --> 0:06:55.360 I like, there's like too much work. Do I really 0:06:55.480 --> 0:06:58.800 need three copies of White Tea by the franchise Boy? 0:06:59.240 --> 0:06:59.440 Yeah? 0:07:00.160 --> 0:07:02.160 I mean that's exactly kind of stuff I was throwing out. 0:07:02.200 --> 0:07:04.560 You know, all those crappy Universal Records promos in the 0:07:04.600 --> 0:07:08.560 blue sleeves that nobody WoT I won't lie. Like we 0:07:08.800 --> 0:07:13.080 realized that if we went up to uh Geffing Records 0:07:13.960 --> 0:07:16.840 and jack a couple of boxes, we could sell them 0:07:16.880 --> 0:07:19.160 and make cash. So there was a period where we 0:07:19.240 --> 0:07:22.040 were like stealing our own promos. 0:07:21.800 --> 0:07:22.680 Big red boot. 0:07:23.720 --> 0:07:23.920 Yeah. 0:07:24.440 --> 0:07:29.000 But after a while they're like, I don't need no 0:07:29.040 --> 0:07:34.119 more distortion and stack. You know, got like two hundred copies. Wow. 0:07:35.240 --> 0:07:37.200 But yeah, that's been me man, just like pecking up 0:07:37.240 --> 0:07:40.720 and like getting rid of ship and uh handling life stuff. 0:07:40.840 --> 0:07:45.760 It's been interesting being absolved into the quest Love universe 0:07:46.160 --> 0:07:47.560 because you are in your own. 0:07:47.440 --> 0:07:51.440 Time and uh it is. It is a lot, you 0:07:51.520 --> 0:07:52.800 know what I'm saying. But we do it because we 0:07:52.920 --> 0:07:58.800 love you, our great lead. Better be honestly stop it, 0:07:58.920 --> 0:08:04.960 all of you, stop it, I said, please, No, we 0:08:05.080 --> 0:08:07.680 do it. Look, we do it in service of he. 0:08:09.320 --> 0:08:12.240 I'm honored and to be in your presence. I work 0:08:12.320 --> 0:08:17.960 for this really great guy. All right, I'm skipping all 0:08:18.000 --> 0:08:20.160 of you. Actually have we have someone new and our 0:08:20.240 --> 0:08:24.920 miss Actually Scott is like our boss, your boss Losses. 0:08:25.000 --> 0:08:29.120 He's the pretty much. Yeah. When at first I didn't 0:08:29.280 --> 0:08:31.840 like you around because I just felt this pressure. Well, 0:08:32.240 --> 0:08:36.000 let's let's clear. Used to stand behind me like the 0:08:36.240 --> 0:08:39.079 like the like the Angel of Death. Yes, well I 0:08:39.160 --> 0:08:41.800 got seated there. I didn't actually choose that place, but 0:08:42.000 --> 0:08:44.880 I did. I felt bad about being he did. He did. 0:08:45.000 --> 0:08:46.439 He actually hit me up the next day and he 0:08:46.520 --> 0:08:48.520 was like, oh man, I hope. I mean you know, 0:08:48.559 --> 0:08:50.600 like the Family Guy episode where like the Angel Death 0:08:50.679 --> 0:08:52.800 is just chill and talking to Peter like any second 0:08:52.840 --> 0:08:56.240 he could die. Like any email I've ever got from Scott, 0:08:56.240 --> 0:08:58.040 I'm like, oh, ship, I just lost the show. I 0:08:58.160 --> 0:09:02.880 lost the show. The shows on. How are we doing, Scott? Great? 0:09:03.559 --> 0:09:06.720 It's amazing. No, No, I mean literally, how are we question? 0:09:08.720 --> 0:09:08.959 We have? 0:09:11.559 --> 0:09:14.200 Yes? What is what is the what is the need 0:09:14.320 --> 0:09:16.600 for us to always check that if we're gonna have employment? 0:09:16.880 --> 0:09:18.120 I think that's a black ship. 0:09:19.080 --> 0:09:23.480 Like we we're always like okay uh with like I 0:09:23.559 --> 0:09:26.680 think every every black person that has had some success, 0:09:27.240 --> 0:09:31.280 like we're always secretly like waiting because like that white 0:09:31.360 --> 0:09:34.680 man to come and just take everything away, because you know, seriously, 0:09:34.760 --> 0:09:36.920 I was I was literally just thinking going through my 0:09:37.000 --> 0:09:39.000 work history and like pretty much anytime I got an 0:09:39.040 --> 0:09:42.360 email from any any my supervisors whatever, it's like, oh 0:09:42.440 --> 0:09:42.679 that's it. 0:09:43.840 --> 0:09:47.319 Anytime. Yeah, let's let's open in the future that I 0:09:47.400 --> 0:09:51.480 still have my eighteen jobs. That's that's all I'm saying. So, Steve, 0:09:51.559 --> 0:09:55.199 how how you doing? I'm great? Is it good to 0:09:55.240 --> 0:09:57.960 be back at Electricity Studios? Oh yeah, this is amazing. 0:09:58.160 --> 0:10:01.960 I love being here. Vibe great, staff is great, all 0:10:02.000 --> 0:10:02.520 the memories. 0:10:02.559 --> 0:10:05.719 And you started from the bottom here right, look at me, 0:10:05.840 --> 0:10:07.439 down here, look at me. 0:10:12.120 --> 0:10:15.880 He turned into Phil Collins, started from the bottle and 0:10:16.120 --> 0:10:21.640 take him field of goal. Now I feel good. I missed. 0:10:21.640 --> 0:10:23.360 Bill Sherman is not here, so I'm going to be 0:10:23.440 --> 0:10:27.040 doing this. Where is Bill? 0:10:27.720 --> 0:10:27.920 Bill? 0:10:28.360 --> 0:10:30.720 And Big Bill is in l A. He is working 0:10:31.400 --> 0:10:35.080 on a TV show that he and I both will 0:10:35.120 --> 0:10:36.520 be nice Floyd on. 0:10:36.840 --> 0:10:39.319 Okay, I'm saying, so, see, you're getting your jobs on 0:10:39.480 --> 0:10:40.440 I'm getting my job, yo. 0:10:40.559 --> 0:10:42.480 I told you Quest Love is I want to be 0:10:42.559 --> 0:10:44.960 like Quest Loving. Get your job, bro, I'm getting them 0:10:45.000 --> 0:10:47.719 getting my jobs up. Man, that's perfect, that's awesome. I'm 0:10:47.720 --> 0:10:52.280 not complaining. So, of course, our special guests today on 0:10:52.600 --> 0:10:58.360 Quest Love Supreme, What can I say? I mean? At 0:10:58.400 --> 0:11:03.120 the very beginning of the tonight show, we had a 0:11:03.160 --> 0:11:07.520 guest Mike Myers on promoting a movie, a documentary called 0:11:07.559 --> 0:11:11.400 Super Mitch and on Netflix right now. Yes, it's on 0:11:11.480 --> 0:11:14.320 Netflix right now, and it instantly caught my attention because 0:11:14.400 --> 0:11:17.480 I mean, you know, I thought I was going to 0:11:17.520 --> 0:11:21.360 see a music documentary and instead I got a life lesson. 0:11:21.880 --> 0:11:25.040 It was like the greatest ted talk ever, but like 0:11:25.280 --> 0:11:28.640 not way cooler, the more the most creative tech of 0:11:28.720 --> 0:11:32.640 all time, more emotional. So you know about our next guest, 0:11:33.040 --> 0:11:37.120 Shep Gordon is I mean, he's a guru. He's a 0:11:37.840 --> 0:11:43.480 manager and organizer, a conceptualizer. Uh and most importantly he's 0:11:43.520 --> 0:11:46.439 a friend to everyone. Ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to of 0:11:46.480 --> 0:11:48.080 course Love Supreme. Shep Gordon. 0:11:48.240 --> 0:11:51.880 Thank you, Hello, thank you, thank you. Thanks for the 0:11:52.120 --> 0:11:52.880 Netflix plug. 0:11:53.480 --> 0:11:55.440 Oh yeah yeah. We watched it. 0:11:57.000 --> 0:11:58.640 For the first time a couple of nights ago, and 0:11:58.880 --> 0:12:01.160 I remember one of the there's things I can remember, 0:12:01.640 --> 0:12:03.560 you know, when you know we can get into the business. 0:12:04.480 --> 0:12:06.280 My friend of mine told me, he was like, your 0:12:06.440 --> 0:12:09.319 manager has got to be whoever you choose your manager, 0:12:10.080 --> 0:12:12.320 that has got to be the guy that knows where 0:12:12.440 --> 0:12:14.760 all your bodies are buried. Like that's got to be 0:12:14.840 --> 0:12:18.280 no secret, none, it's got to know everything. Whatever whatever 0:12:18.400 --> 0:12:23.160 drug you on, whoever girl you're sleeping with, whatever, all 0:12:23.360 --> 0:12:25.440 the dirt, Like your manager has to be the guy 0:12:25.520 --> 0:12:27.120 to know it, because he's the guy that has to 0:12:27.200 --> 0:12:28.040 protect you from it. 0:12:28.160 --> 0:12:33.480 You know, you're saying that if you were to pass away, 0:12:33.679 --> 0:12:36.719 have somebody run in the house and clean up a 0:12:36.720 --> 0:12:41.240 little bit. Yeah, everyone, brother, everyone needs a mister wolf everyone. 0:12:42.880 --> 0:12:46.120 And watching the Superman documentary, I was just like, yo, 0:12:46.400 --> 0:12:50.240 Shep Gordon is the ultimate mister Wolf. Like, he's the 0:12:50.400 --> 0:12:53.319 ultimate like manager that anyone could ever wish for. 0:12:53.520 --> 0:12:57.160 Now we're broadcasting here at our at our home and electrically. 0:12:57.960 --> 0:13:02.280 And you know, of course, of your connection with Jimmy Hendricks. 0:13:04.360 --> 0:13:05.760 You said you were here when he. 0:13:06.040 --> 0:13:11.880 Yeah, I lived on Ninth Street and Fifth Avenue, and 0:13:13.640 --> 0:13:16.280 I had a good friend of mine, Alan Douglas, who 0:13:16.480 --> 0:13:19.880 had a daughter who was the same age as a 0:13:20.280 --> 0:13:23.160 child I was raising, and he was here at the 0:13:23.240 --> 0:13:28.880 time doing some over. Jimmy had passed away, and this 0:13:29.080 --> 0:13:31.640 was the first album coming out after he passed away. 0:13:31.720 --> 0:13:33.840 They brought in John McLachlan and a bunch of people 0:13:33.920 --> 0:13:36.040 to play on it. They said that they had found 0:13:36.040 --> 0:13:41.679 the guitar part only and rebuilt the record. And I 0:13:41.800 --> 0:13:44.920 used to drop the girl I was not my daughter, 0:13:44.960 --> 0:13:48.040 but the girl I was raising here and they babysit for. 0:13:48.520 --> 0:13:50.840 While they were working here at the Electric Leaveinglan. 0:13:51.360 --> 0:13:51.640 Wow. 0:13:52.000 --> 0:13:53.880 Yeah, because it was all part of you know, it 0:13:54.679 --> 0:13:56.160 was such a different business then. 0:13:56.840 --> 0:13:59.480 You know, it was a family. We all knew each other, 0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:03.880 wasn't It wasn't like random people were coming in to 0:14:04.000 --> 0:14:07.040 use the studio. There was no studio business. It was 0:14:07.800 --> 0:14:11.199 basically acts that was signed by a record company and 0:14:11.320 --> 0:14:12.320 everybody sort of new. 0:14:12.400 --> 0:14:13.480 So it was very family. 0:14:14.200 --> 0:14:18.400 See that's when when I did my residency here back 0:14:18.480 --> 0:14:20.720 in I started in ninety seven. 0:14:20.800 --> 0:14:21.640 Was Eddi Kramer here? 0:14:21.720 --> 0:14:24.920 Then you know the first year they that's when they 0:14:25.000 --> 0:14:30.200 first started to re release a lot of hidden not 0:14:30.320 --> 0:14:35.240 the hidden, the unreleased under Hendrick stuff. So Janey Hendricks 0:14:35.320 --> 0:14:39.320 and Eddie had crazy stories for us, like they played 0:14:39.400 --> 0:14:43.640 us all these tapes and everything, and you know, like 0:14:44.080 --> 0:14:47.040 it's funny, like this was like a I consider this 0:14:47.360 --> 0:14:50.400 my my home because I did like a majority of 0:14:50.480 --> 0:14:52.920 my work at the studio from like ninety seven to 0:14:53.040 --> 0:14:56.320 like two thousand and four, and I think like between 0:14:56.520 --> 0:15:01.120 ninety eight and two thousand and two, Like I mean, 0:15:01.160 --> 0:15:03.120 there'd be times where I just like slept here in 0:15:03.160 --> 0:15:05.640 the studio, like but that that. 0:15:05.760 --> 0:15:08.040 Was the way it was then. That was sort of 0:15:08.080 --> 0:15:10.320 the way it was. You know, you came in, you'd 0:15:10.360 --> 0:15:14.120 spend sixty days, forty five days. You sort of live here, 0:15:14.200 --> 0:15:18.800 you do your record. It was a different The recording 0:15:18.880 --> 0:15:21.520 process was a very I think I never recorded, so 0:15:21.600 --> 0:15:24.120 I don't know, but I think a very different process. 0:15:24.720 --> 0:15:29.480 It was a it was much more a creative collaboration. 0:15:29.720 --> 0:15:32.640 And if someone was in studio B you'd bring them 0:15:32.680 --> 0:15:34.720 in and the same thing. Yeah, they'd work on the 0:15:34.760 --> 0:15:38.160 record with you. It wasn't this territorial yeah, weird thing. 0:15:38.320 --> 0:15:41.200 The same thing here, Like we would there'd be clients 0:15:41.280 --> 0:15:43.960 in the sea room upstairs, and we'd be in the 0:15:44.000 --> 0:15:46.560 a room downstairs, and then we sneak over and pee. 0:15:46.720 --> 0:15:49.680 I need a background vocal anybody, Uh yeah, poach. 0:15:49.560 --> 0:15:54.120 People and do that. So for those that haven't seen 0:15:54.200 --> 0:15:58.520 the film, I guess what the beginning of your your 0:15:58.640 --> 0:16:06.720 management career was Alex Cooper nine, And I mean at 0:16:07.120 --> 0:16:11.000 the time, I mean for me, like a manager, there's 0:16:11.040 --> 0:16:13.480 two types of manager. One is like super established, like 0:16:14.960 --> 0:16:18.280 if you go to like a company and someone that's 0:16:18.320 --> 0:16:21.640 like alter established, and then someone that's just your road 0:16:21.680 --> 0:16:25.880 buddy that's organized, and I mean, you haven't haven't had 0:16:25.920 --> 0:16:29.280 any experience in the music business, like where you kind 0:16:29.320 --> 0:16:30.760 of worried about how to navigate. 0:16:31.640 --> 0:16:33.680 You know, I never really thought about it. I did 0:16:33.760 --> 0:16:35.520 it as a mine was a cover. 0:16:36.840 --> 0:16:40.240 I got into being a manager, so if someone asked 0:16:40.280 --> 0:16:41.840 me how did I make a living, I could say 0:16:41.840 --> 0:16:43.920 I was I was a manager. Jimmy Hendrix said to 0:16:43.960 --> 0:16:47.360 me when I was, I was a dealer and on 0:16:47.440 --> 0:16:53.200 a very low level. And he said, what are you 0:16:53.200 --> 0:16:55.120 gonna do if the police ask you where you make 0:16:55.160 --> 0:16:57.040 your money? You know, and where I grew up. You 0:16:57.120 --> 0:16:59.120 need to you wear a new watch. You've been to 0:16:59.120 --> 0:17:00.920 be able to tell the cop where you got to watch? 0:17:01.520 --> 0:17:02.960 And I said, you know, I'm a middle class you 0:17:03.160 --> 0:17:05.359 they Long Island, they don't police, don't company. 0:17:05.520 --> 0:17:08.480 Yeah. I was about to say, like opportunity. 0:17:09.560 --> 0:17:13.480 Exactly, but that's crazy because then watching the documentary, I said, 0:17:13.480 --> 0:17:14.840 there and I wondered. I was like, at the point 0:17:14.840 --> 0:17:17.000 where you and Alice Cooper said okay, we're going to 0:17:17.119 --> 0:17:20.399 do this, you had to have more expertise than just a. 0:17:20.520 --> 0:17:21.560 Dealer, like. 0:17:26.280 --> 0:17:29.359 And you know what alse Alice says, his words are 0:17:29.880 --> 0:17:31.840 Scheppinheim met All a lie I told him I was 0:17:31.920 --> 0:17:33.520 a singer. He told me he was a manager. 0:17:34.040 --> 0:17:34.320 Wow. 0:17:34.640 --> 0:17:36.080 But what what happened was. 0:17:38.160 --> 0:17:41.639 People started getting busted around me, and I didn't want 0:17:41.680 --> 0:17:44.080 to deal anymore. So I sat down with Alice and 0:17:44.119 --> 0:17:46.080 I said, I have no idea what I'm doing. And 0:17:46.200 --> 0:17:48.159 he said I have no idea what I'm doing. And 0:17:48.280 --> 0:17:50.160 I said, well, let's figure it out and get rich, 0:17:50.680 --> 0:17:52.800 and let's agree to stay together till we didn't. 0:17:53.359 --> 0:17:54.000 So we we. 0:17:55.359 --> 0:17:57.960 I had never thought of myself as a manager. It 0:17:58.119 --> 0:18:00.159 was trying to earn lunch. I didn't even know what 0:18:00.240 --> 0:18:02.320 a manager was. There was no rules for a manager. 0:18:02.359 --> 0:18:05.800 I had never met a manager. But I had this 0:18:06.000 --> 0:18:11.640 idea that if we could piss off parents, kids would 0:18:11.640 --> 0:18:13.520 come to us, and then we could hire people to 0:18:13.560 --> 0:18:18.040 make music. And that's where we focused, and that's where 0:18:18.240 --> 0:18:20.960 all of our stunts came from. Our focus at band 0:18:21.040 --> 0:18:24.040 meetings was how do we piss off parents? And that's 0:18:24.040 --> 0:18:26.120 where the chicken came from. And that's where the name 0:18:26.240 --> 0:18:26.720 came from. 0:18:27.320 --> 0:18:30.119 Now, okay, from our from our side of the fence, 0:18:30.359 --> 0:18:35.360 especially because we're not the target rock audience. Like I'm 0:18:35.600 --> 0:18:38.440 certain that you know both you fante and I'm talking 0:18:38.440 --> 0:18:41.399 to Fante right now, like we were brought up at 0:18:41.480 --> 0:18:45.560 least in this Baptist or Christian background where it didn't 0:18:48.200 --> 0:18:53.680 not the Jewish world. It's just like from our point 0:18:53.720 --> 0:18:56.720 of view, it's always like I was taught, especially the 0:18:56.800 --> 0:18:59.520 church I went to, like this Pentecostal church, Oh God, 0:19:00.080 --> 0:19:02.720 which everything was of the devil, and say, you know, 0:19:02.880 --> 0:19:05.439 like you would look at these you know, you can 0:19:05.480 --> 0:19:09.280 look at Ozzy Osmorene covers or Blue Oyster Calton like 0:19:09.359 --> 0:19:11.240 all these things, and you're thinking, like a man, there's 0:19:11.280 --> 0:19:13.680 a temple of devil worship and basically it's just like 0:19:13.720 --> 0:19:16.480 a marketing seem like, how can we you were doing exactly. 0:19:16.720 --> 0:19:19.399 And by the way, Alice's father was a minister. His 0:19:19.560 --> 0:19:21.880 grandfather was the head of the Church of Jesus Christ. 0:19:24.240 --> 0:19:27.240 He married the daughter of a minister. He reads the 0:19:27.320 --> 0:19:29.000 Bible every morning at five o'clock. 0:19:29.160 --> 0:19:29.960 Since I know him. 0:19:30.200 --> 0:19:32.159 He goes to church on Sundays. And I had to 0:19:32.240 --> 0:19:35.359 hide all that because I said, yeah, people are gonna 0:19:35.480 --> 0:19:35.639 like you. 0:19:36.000 --> 0:19:37.000 We can't like you. 0:19:37.560 --> 0:19:38.000 They hate you. 0:19:39.000 --> 0:19:42.080 So that that was really our biggest challenge was was 0:19:42.280 --> 0:19:43.520 not giving up who he was. 0:19:44.119 --> 0:19:46.399 But that's amazing though, man, I mean because that's like 0:19:46.520 --> 0:19:50.600 a clear like showing just the difference between your persona 0:19:50.760 --> 0:19:52.240 versus your identity, you know. 0:19:52.240 --> 0:19:54.080 What I mean, And the fact that he could hold 0:19:54.160 --> 0:19:56.000 on to who he was and not get lost. 0:19:56.800 --> 0:19:57.240 But he did. 0:19:57.920 --> 0:19:58.159 He did. 0:19:58.240 --> 0:20:01.160 Oh yeah, yeah, he got consumed. He went to rehabby 0:20:01.280 --> 0:20:05.240 at the bottom. But I think most people who hit 0:20:05.320 --> 0:20:09.720 that level of fame, especially if they've done it as entertainers, 0:20:09.840 --> 0:20:14.560 have to deal with that moment where they're not being fulfilled. 0:20:14.600 --> 0:20:17.760 That there's very few of the number one ers that 0:20:17.840 --> 0:20:21.200 I've come across who don't need an adjustment somewhere along 0:20:21.240 --> 0:20:23.359 the way, who don't fall to something. 0:20:23.880 --> 0:20:26.080 You know, I've had so many. 0:20:26.240 --> 0:20:30.159 You know, Teddy's not around, Luther's not around, all the 0:20:30.240 --> 0:20:32.520 people I grew up with, Jimmy Hendrix knighted at twenty 0:20:32.600 --> 0:20:36.159 seven Mars and at twenty seven. There always was a 0:20:36.280 --> 0:20:42.040 link between fame and using crutches that really hurt you. 0:20:43.000 --> 0:20:44.440 What do you think that link is? Like, why do 0:20:44.520 --> 0:20:45.320 you think you know? 0:20:45.359 --> 0:20:47.639 I think I don't know in the general world, but 0:20:47.680 --> 0:20:49.320 I think in the entertainment, in the world that I 0:20:49.440 --> 0:20:53.159 lived in, which was live entertainers, the rejection is so 0:20:53.440 --> 0:20:57.600 gigantic to get to a place of success. It's so 0:20:57.840 --> 0:21:01.680 overwhelming that if it's us, if your goal is to 0:21:01.840 --> 0:21:05.040 just make a living or to have a career, you 0:21:05.160 --> 0:21:08.680 can't take all that rejection. So normally it's to fill 0:21:08.760 --> 0:21:12.520 some hole in you that you think that applause is 0:21:12.600 --> 0:21:14.480 going to fill some hole for you, and it doesn't, 0:21:14.920 --> 0:21:17.400 and then you just get angrier and you use more crutches, 0:21:17.520 --> 0:21:19.560 and you know, hopefully you take a. 0:21:19.640 --> 0:21:21.120 Small fall and you come back. 0:21:21.400 --> 0:21:24.800 Well, let me ask I, okay, the way that my 0:21:25.000 --> 0:21:32.480 manager taught us to cope with it. And this is 0:21:32.520 --> 0:21:35.640 really weird because everyone around me was like, he's so negative, 0:21:36.160 --> 0:21:39.520 why do you embrace like all that negativity? And my mom, 0:21:39.800 --> 0:21:41.720 you know, she had problems with him and everything. But 0:21:43.280 --> 0:21:47.000 what I realized he was doing by the first year 0:21:47.240 --> 0:21:51.160 was he was just preparing us to not have any expectations, 0:21:51.240 --> 0:21:55.480 like he told he told me Richard Nicholson. Yeah, So 0:21:56.119 --> 0:21:58.480 like Richard was basically like, you know, he's like, I'm 0:21:58.520 --> 0:22:01.040 not preparing you guys for start him. I want you 0:22:01.080 --> 0:22:03.280 to have a long term career. So I'd rather you guys, 0:22:04.840 --> 0:22:10.000 you know, live better than the average jazz musician. You know, now, 0:22:10.080 --> 0:22:13.600 because we're in hip hop you're instantly thinking of this 0:22:13.720 --> 0:22:16.920 ticker tape parade or what Rich called the Bentley moment, 0:22:17.560 --> 0:22:22.000 like think of, think of like think of like your 0:22:22.040 --> 0:22:26.359 most salacious hype Williams video and yeah, poorn Champagne all 0:22:26.400 --> 0:22:29.040 over women like that that, you know, and he just 0:22:29.280 --> 0:22:32.840 wanted for us to sort of just get rid of 0:22:33.000 --> 0:22:36.200 that expectation, like he would always say, just lower your expectations. 0:22:37.160 --> 0:22:40.639 And maybe the first year we started taking a personal 0:22:40.680 --> 0:22:42.879 and then pointing fingers at each other, it's your fault, 0:22:43.200 --> 0:22:45.760 and well you drump to a drum click, but DJs 0:22:45.760 --> 0:22:47.720 will play like all this thing, you know, And then 0:22:49.359 --> 0:22:57.040 I will say that I will say that protecting ourselves 0:22:59.520 --> 0:23:04.040 helped us, helped me and Tarika the long run, I mean, 0:23:04.119 --> 0:23:05.960 some of us sort of fell by the waysides and 0:23:06.240 --> 0:23:10.679 kind of succumb to different vices and whatnot. But at 0:23:10.760 --> 0:23:13.639 least for Tarika and I, it kind of helped us. 0:23:13.720 --> 0:23:19.600 But then again, like twenty years later into it, I 0:23:19.640 --> 0:23:23.960 don't know if it's made us immune to emotional feelings 0:23:24.160 --> 0:23:25.639 like I've so you. 0:23:25.720 --> 0:23:28.600 Don't feel the good So when you say that, you 0:23:28.680 --> 0:23:31.040 mean like you don't feel the good stuff either. 0:23:31.000 --> 0:23:34.080 Well I don't, Yeah, I don't feel anything, gotcha, And 0:23:34.240 --> 0:23:36.240 it's like it's to the point where it's just like, 0:23:37.000 --> 0:23:39.040 I'm mere. Stevie wonders on the show. Oh my god, 0:23:39.480 --> 0:23:41.200 Yeah that's cool, Oh my god, I mere? 0:23:41.280 --> 0:23:42.040 Like what what? 0:23:42.320 --> 0:23:44.320 What ten years ago you would have been like? And 0:23:44.720 --> 0:23:47.000 that's the thing, like, I had to numb myself so 0:23:47.200 --> 0:23:50.760 much to protect to keep myself from forming a drug 0:23:50.920 --> 0:23:54.240 cabin or suicide or whatever the vices that artists get into. 0:23:55.280 --> 0:24:00.600 That Now as a forty plus year old man like it. Now, 0:24:00.640 --> 0:24:02.800 I'm trying to get emotions back and it's. 0:24:05.840 --> 0:24:08.040 Yeah, no, it's funny you should say that, because I 0:24:10.440 --> 0:24:12.840 from it completely the other side. I've come to the 0:24:12.880 --> 0:24:13.440 same place. 0:24:15.000 --> 0:24:16.199 I have. 0:24:17.720 --> 0:24:20.280 People ask me, is there anything you regret? It was 0:24:20.320 --> 0:24:21.959 one of the questions that's been asked, and I say, 0:24:22.040 --> 0:24:26.440 you know, one of the most satisfying nights of my 0:24:26.520 --> 0:24:28.400 life was Alice getting in the Rock and Roll Hall 0:24:28.400 --> 0:24:32.480 of Fame. It was forty years of hard work and 0:24:32.720 --> 0:24:37.639 really amazing and I went home and looked in the 0:24:37.680 --> 0:24:39.920 mirror and said it worked. I got into bed and 0:24:40.000 --> 0:24:42.920 watched CNN fifteen minutes after the thing. I didn't go 0:24:42.960 --> 0:24:46.639 to the party. I wish I could have shared in 0:24:46.760 --> 0:24:48.879 the love. And I said to Alis, the next thing, 0:24:48.920 --> 0:24:49.080 you know. 0:24:49.119 --> 0:24:52.120 It's weird. I've always been like this. I don't know why. 0:24:52.160 --> 0:24:54.439 And they said, well, I was in bed fifteen minutes 0:24:54.480 --> 0:24:55.760 after watching a movie. 0:24:59.320 --> 0:25:01.680 So we come up from the other side. Because I 0:25:01.880 --> 0:25:04.400 manage them exactly the opposite way. I used to sit 0:25:04.440 --> 0:25:07.160 them in a room and I would. I would always 0:25:07.200 --> 0:25:10.159 tell clients, if I do my job perfectly, it's very 0:25:10.280 --> 0:25:14.080 possible I'll kill you because I'll make you so famous 0:25:14.359 --> 0:25:18.600 that you're going to kill yourself or hurt yourself. But 0:25:18.680 --> 0:25:20.200 I would tell them that and say, that's what I 0:25:20.280 --> 0:25:21.920 do for a living. It's the only thing I know 0:25:22.000 --> 0:25:24.160 how to do. Other guys will make you more money, 0:25:24.640 --> 0:25:26.800 other guys will do a lot of stuff better than me. 0:25:27.200 --> 0:25:29.200 I know how to make you really famous. 0:25:29.840 --> 0:25:35.119 And so is it almost is it almost better to 0:25:37.119 --> 0:25:38.200 go for second place? 0:25:38.560 --> 0:25:40.440 I don't know better. I don't, you know, hard for 0:25:40.560 --> 0:25:42.840 me to judge, but I think you do what you 0:25:42.960 --> 0:25:43.399 know how to do. 0:25:44.480 --> 0:25:45.159 I think it's. 0:25:46.560 --> 0:25:48.680 I think better, like if I have someone I love. 0:25:50.040 --> 0:25:53.480 I'm going through it now with my assistant's daughter who 0:25:53.520 --> 0:25:57.520 I love, who's very talented, very beautiful, a lot of 0:25:57.600 --> 0:26:00.439 record companies are trying to sign her and take her, 0:26:00.480 --> 0:26:02.680 and I hug her, and I say, why don't. 0:26:02.520 --> 0:26:05.119 You become a school teacher and have three kids, because. 0:26:05.800 --> 0:26:08.760 You're really happy now and you're going to work for 0:26:08.920 --> 0:26:13.120 thirty years the goal to be happy, and you're gonna 0:26:13.119 --> 0:26:15.600 have to unwind a lot of stuff if you're successful, 0:26:15.960 --> 0:26:18.560 because that's really the goal I think for most people 0:26:19.000 --> 0:26:24.200 is get happy, be able to buy dinner. Yeah, And 0:26:24.320 --> 0:26:26.920 I think most artists work at it so hard and 0:26:26.960 --> 0:26:28.280 they get to the end of the row where they 0:26:28.320 --> 0:26:30.240 can be happy, and they forgot how to be happy. 0:26:30.720 --> 0:26:30.880 Yeah. 0:26:30.960 --> 0:26:33.560 It's like it's the dog. It's literally the dog chasing 0:26:33.600 --> 0:26:36.480 it's hotail. But I will say that there is also 0:26:36.520 --> 0:26:42.280 an insatiable thing going on because you know, like my 0:26:42.520 --> 0:26:51.680 goal for always, you know, there's always a deeper kind 0:26:51.760 --> 0:26:55.680 of end game every three or four years, you know, 0:26:56.000 --> 0:26:59.240 back and it's like, man, just okay, just get one grammy, 0:27:00.200 --> 0:27:06.000 I'll be happy by my Mond ware house and I'll 0:27:06.040 --> 0:27:13.280 be happy. And then I mean for now, I don't know, like, okay, 0:27:13.359 --> 0:27:17.400 what were your person on my personal like my life goals. 0:27:17.520 --> 0:27:21.240 I don't believe in happy, I believe in satisfied. So Okay, 0:27:22.080 --> 0:27:26.680 what would where will you really truly be satisfied? But 0:27:26.880 --> 0:27:31.159 be artists are never No, I'm gonna keep always. I 0:27:31.280 --> 0:27:33.359 know a lot of you, brother, for real, Look we 0:27:33.440 --> 0:27:35.240 keep a hunded this quest loves of plean God, damn's 0:27:35.240 --> 0:27:36.199 what we do, all right? 0:27:36.240 --> 0:27:41.360 So look all right, My happiness for me is again, well, 0:27:41.440 --> 0:27:45.440 my sad, sat satisfy, satisfied, my satisfied. My satisfaction would 0:27:45.480 --> 0:27:48.960 be when I have enough money in the bank to 0:27:49.040 --> 0:27:51.800 where I can sit still for three years, at least 0:27:51.840 --> 0:27:55.280 three years and like not do ship Like if I don't, 0:27:55.400 --> 0:27:56.600 I don't got to go to a show. 0:27:57.240 --> 0:27:59.200 I ain't got a fucking write, not a song, I 0:27:59.200 --> 0:28:02.240 ain't got a sing one goddamn note. I'm good for 0:28:02.440 --> 0:28:04.320 like what about ten years? Ten? 0:28:06.359 --> 0:28:06.399 No? 0:28:06.440 --> 0:28:09.200 No, no, But I'm like, all right, it's three more 0:28:09.280 --> 0:28:11.280 realistic to you or ten because I. 0:28:11.280 --> 0:28:13.280 Had the three year plan, but then you got and 0:28:13.320 --> 0:28:15.960 then it was like if I get a bigger house 0:28:16.040 --> 0:28:16.840 and you addicted. 0:28:19.320 --> 0:28:22.040 I think that's human nature, not question love nature. 0:28:22.119 --> 0:28:24.359 No, no, no, I think it is human nature. I 0:28:24.440 --> 0:28:26.840 think for me, this is like my whole thing, and 0:28:26.920 --> 0:28:29.800 it's kind of you know what shep was saying, you know. 0:28:30.600 --> 0:28:32.720 My thing was, I remember when I first got in, 0:28:32.960 --> 0:28:35.560 when I first when I first first started, before like 0:28:35.640 --> 0:28:37.919 we had signed anything, I was working at a call 0:28:38.000 --> 0:28:39.240 center making ten dollars an hour. 0:28:39.480 --> 0:28:42.520 You know what I'm saying. And you know I'm in college. 0:28:42.520 --> 0:28:44.000 I mean, I'm working at the call center. 0:28:44.040 --> 0:28:45.520 It was I mean, it was a shitty job, but 0:28:45.640 --> 0:28:47.800 I was like, look, it's ten dollars hour. I remember 0:28:47.840 --> 0:28:50.120 saying to myself specifically, if I could just get to 0:28:50.200 --> 0:28:52.640 a point in my career where I'm making ten dollars 0:28:52.680 --> 0:28:56.360 an hour rhyming, doing what I love to. 0:28:56.400 --> 0:28:57.680 Do, I'm good. 0:28:58.520 --> 0:29:00.760 If I can do If I can make ten dollars 0:29:00.800 --> 0:29:03.960 an hour and not be in this fucking call center 0:29:04.120 --> 0:29:07.440 and gotta be nice to these people, I'm good. 0:29:08.040 --> 0:29:10.160 And so I got to that point. And so for me, 0:29:10.400 --> 0:29:12.040 my kind of moment realization was I got to that 0:29:12.080 --> 0:29:13.680 point where I made way more than that. 0:29:13.840 --> 0:29:16.560 I mean, you know, crazy times more, but you still 0:29:16.640 --> 0:29:19.280 find yourself asking for more. And so it's like I 0:29:19.360 --> 0:29:21.200 had to check myself. It's like, man, that was a 0:29:21.320 --> 0:29:23.239 time in my place. So it got to go when 0:29:23.280 --> 0:29:25.600 I made twenty dollars out and it's like, man, I 0:29:25.720 --> 0:29:28.200 remember that was a point in my life, I never thought, 0:29:32.120 --> 0:29:32.840 let's get the job. 0:29:35.040 --> 0:29:38.920 Even now I am financially I heard that. I was like, wait, 0:29:42.120 --> 0:29:48.320 let me So for me, I just keep that and 0:29:48.480 --> 0:29:49.720 I keep that in mind for me. 0:29:49.840 --> 0:29:52.480 It's like there were times where whenever I get like 0:29:52.640 --> 0:29:56.160 depressed or overwhelmed, it just whatever the case, I remember 0:29:56.200 --> 0:29:58.840 that there was a day I was praying for the 0:29:58.960 --> 0:30:02.360 things that I have now absolutely and that's just keeps 0:30:02.520 --> 0:30:04.520 me kind of grounded, you know what I mean. 0:30:05.080 --> 0:30:07.320 I say, I wake up and physically say thank you 0:30:07.400 --> 0:30:11.160 every day for all the gifts I have. It's amazing 0:30:11.240 --> 0:30:13.640 and just for all I mean, all of us were 0:30:13.640 --> 0:30:14.080 sitting here. 0:30:15.800 --> 0:30:17.560 I've been to your house in Hawaii, so I do 0:30:17.680 --> 0:30:27.520 the same thing. So I got to ask you because 0:30:27.520 --> 0:30:33.120 you established that you knew the quote unquote twenty seventh club, 0:30:33.640 --> 0:30:39.600 which consisted of Hendrickson and Choplin and ours Jim Morrison. 0:30:40.000 --> 0:30:43.320 So I mean, was this on a daily or a 0:30:43.360 --> 0:30:45.760 weekly basis that you would see these people. 0:30:45.640 --> 0:30:48.479 And I'd see them, I'd see Janice. Janis lived at 0:30:48.480 --> 0:30:50.640 the motel. It was a Hollywood Landmark motel. 0:30:51.600 --> 0:30:52.840 Is that where the height it is? Right now? 0:30:53.000 --> 0:30:56.240 No, right next to the Magic Castle on Franklin between 0:30:56.680 --> 0:30:57.680 Highland and Librere. 0:30:58.200 --> 0:31:00.240 It's still there, you know what. 0:31:00.280 --> 0:31:02.600 It is, right right next to the driveway for the 0:31:02.640 --> 0:31:06.280 Magic Castle. And Janie lived there, so when she wasn't 0:31:06.320 --> 0:31:09.760 on the road, she was there every day and with 0:31:09.880 --> 0:31:12.840 her Southern comfort bottle and usually a guy in tow 0:31:13.440 --> 0:31:17.720 and a revolving door. Guy Jim would come by once 0:31:17.760 --> 0:31:19.760 in a while. Wasn't there all the time. The Chambers 0:31:19.840 --> 0:31:22.600 brothers lived there, so they were there all the time. 0:31:23.920 --> 0:31:28.760 But it was Why was that particular spot the Hollywood mythical? 0:31:29.000 --> 0:31:30.000 I think because it was cheap. 0:31:30.280 --> 0:31:33.320 First of all, it was cheaper than having your own 0:31:33.360 --> 0:31:34.240 property or oh. 0:31:34.200 --> 0:31:36.800 Yeah, this was thirty four dollars a night for the room. 0:31:36.920 --> 0:31:39.400 Oh wow, you know this was not a fancy This 0:31:39.560 --> 0:31:43.600 was a very bare roots hotel knowsdays. Thirty four dollars 0:31:43.720 --> 0:31:46.080 was still something, but it was very cheap. It was 0:31:46.160 --> 0:31:51.080 a hotel California, swimming pool two stories around it, and 0:31:52.720 --> 0:31:55.000 for some reason, you know, it was just music friendly. 0:31:55.560 --> 0:31:57.560 You'd go to the pool on a typical afternoon would 0:31:57.560 --> 0:32:01.440 be Arthur Lee. Wow, who was really interesting because he 0:32:01.800 --> 0:32:05.960 when he was there, he was the creative leader. When 0:32:05.960 --> 0:32:08.720 they would sit around the pool and really he's the 0:32:08.800 --> 0:32:11.080 one who would say, you take this, take a background vocal, 0:32:11.240 --> 0:32:13.840 do this song, you do this. Everybody would look at him. 0:32:13.840 --> 0:32:16.800 He was the he was like they'd bow to Arthurly. 0:32:17.520 --> 0:32:19.800 He was the he was the real power in the room. 0:32:19.920 --> 0:32:24.320 See you describing this utopian atmosphere where author Lee in 0:32:24.400 --> 0:32:30.200 Love and the Jannis Chaplin would just sing likes the guitars. 0:32:30.400 --> 0:32:33.760 Usually it was Bobby Newarth would start if Bobby Newarth 0:32:33.960 --> 0:32:37.680 was Bob Dylan's road manager and also became a folk 0:32:37.760 --> 0:32:41.360 singer later on in his life. He was usually the instigator. 0:32:41.480 --> 0:32:44.720 Paul Roth's child lived there, who was the producer of 0:32:45.560 --> 0:32:49.440 a lot of the Doors records, great producer, So they 0:32:49.480 --> 0:32:52.640 were usually the instigators, and they would bring out Bobby 0:32:52.680 --> 0:32:54.440 would bring out his guitar and they just start and 0:32:54.560 --> 0:32:57.240 Janis would jump in and sing and one of the 0:32:57.400 --> 0:32:59.680 chambers of others would get on like a you know, 0:33:00.240 --> 0:33:03.160 start beating on a garbage pail or something. And that 0:33:03.320 --> 0:33:05.080 was sort of the rhythm of the place. It wasn't 0:33:05.120 --> 0:33:07.640 every day, never was organized. 0:33:07.840 --> 0:33:09.880 Was the general public aware of this? I mean the 0:33:09.960 --> 0:33:11.560 way that was celebrity hunting. 0:33:11.640 --> 0:33:14.560 Now, yeah, it was funny, you know it was pre age. 0:33:16.400 --> 0:33:18.080 Yea yeah, and there was a great there was a 0:33:18.120 --> 0:33:21.280 great rhythm, like sit at the pool and you'd see 0:33:21.440 --> 0:33:24.280 like this really pretty girl come in and she'd be 0:33:24.400 --> 0:33:26.160 with like Pink Floyd in this room, and then you 0:33:26.280 --> 0:33:28.200 get to the pool the next morning she'd come out 0:33:28.200 --> 0:33:30.880 of the Chambers room, and then you come down the 0:33:30.960 --> 0:33:33.400 next morning and come out of the you know, someone 0:33:33.440 --> 0:33:38.960 else's room. They'd sort of work, yeah, exactly, they sort 0:33:39.000 --> 0:33:40.720 of worked. They were arount of the place, and the 0:33:40.840 --> 0:33:42.840 GTOs lived there. I don't know if you've ever heard 0:33:42.880 --> 0:33:46.720 of them, the girls together outrageously. No, they were a 0:33:46.880 --> 0:33:49.960 bunch of groupies who did a recording, recorded an album 0:33:50.040 --> 0:33:53.320 for Frank Zappa's label, and they were fantastic there. It 0:33:53.480 --> 0:33:56.240 was miss Christie missed this one, missed that one, and 0:33:56.360 --> 0:33:58.160 they sort of took care of all the girls and 0:33:58.360 --> 0:34:00.920 made sure they got fed, you know, and they just 0:34:01.480 --> 0:34:03.240 I remember that one of the great days at the 0:34:03.280 --> 0:34:05.200 pool because it was a different time. It was a 0:34:05.240 --> 0:34:08.759 free love time, you know, it was really different. But 0:34:08.840 --> 0:34:11.880 I remember I was down at the pool with with 0:34:12.080 --> 0:34:16.239 I think Lester Chambers and Bobby Newarth, maybe Roth Toohn. 0:34:16.400 --> 0:34:19.480 We get to the pool and somebody spots up in 0:34:19.560 --> 0:34:24.000 the corner an entire line of ladies lingerie drying out, 0:34:24.680 --> 0:34:27.000 and we're like hound dogs getting so excited. 0:34:27.480 --> 0:34:29.040 The ice Capades had checked in. 0:34:37.760 --> 0:34:42.880 Oh my god, I'm sorry. 0:34:47.320 --> 0:34:50.040 That was the high point of life at the Hollywood Landmark. 0:34:51.840 --> 0:34:54.279 The ice Capades were here. It was like, oh my god. 0:34:54.520 --> 0:35:00.319 I mean, by that point, could you imagine and during 0:35:00.440 --> 0:35:04.440 mainstream society or was this just like oh, I'm fine. 0:35:04.400 --> 0:35:07.400 Just yeah, no, you know, I I had no consciousness 0:35:07.440 --> 0:35:09.880 of what it was. And they weren't really mound rushmore 0:35:09.920 --> 0:35:12.719 people at the time I was. I had just come 0:35:12.800 --> 0:35:18.600 out of college. I remember, I wasn't I had very 0:35:18.680 --> 0:35:22.600 few female relationships. I was very I was close to 0:35:22.719 --> 0:35:24.000 a version at this point. 0:35:23.760 --> 0:35:24.279 In my life. 0:35:24.960 --> 0:35:27.719 Yeah, of the late bloomer and this beautiful blonde was 0:35:27.760 --> 0:35:29.239 at the pool when she came and she stayed with 0:35:29.360 --> 0:35:31.560 me at night and we made love and I'm thinking 0:35:31.640 --> 0:35:34.239 I'm in love and they go downstairs the next daye 0:35:34.280 --> 0:35:35.680 she said, Leicester Jabers room. 0:35:39.880 --> 0:35:43.440 So you know, one of the things I questioned now, 0:35:45.280 --> 0:35:50.560 the way that you were describing managing Anne Mary, because 0:35:50.840 --> 0:35:54.520 I was, you know, five or six years old at 0:35:54.560 --> 0:35:57.120 the time. You know, I mean, they weren't calling it 0:35:57.200 --> 0:35:59.319 yacht rock back then or a soft pop or whatever. 0:35:59.480 --> 0:36:02.400 Like it was just always on radio. Yeah, like I 0:36:02.480 --> 0:36:06.120 mean you needed Me was like played like forty two 0:36:06.239 --> 0:36:12.840 billion times a day, like your Lord. However, are you 0:36:12.920 --> 0:36:14.560 saying at one point she was a hard. 0:36:14.480 --> 0:36:16.560 Sell, because oh she was a very tough sell. 0:36:16.719 --> 0:36:18.680 Yeah, so that was you that got her on them 0:36:18.719 --> 0:36:21.600 up at Chill with Alice and Midnight Special and all 0:36:21.600 --> 0:36:22.040 that stuff. 0:36:22.120 --> 0:36:24.600 Yeah, she was a very she was a very tough sell. 0:36:24.680 --> 0:36:30.120 But she was amazingly talented in her in her I 0:36:30.160 --> 0:36:31.759 don't know, I mean, I don't mean this in a 0:36:31.960 --> 0:36:35.840 negative way, her narrow highway. She had one of the 0:36:35.960 --> 0:36:39.319 greatest purest voices you ever heard. Yeah, and she had 0:36:39.760 --> 0:36:45.880 very little recognition of what that meant or the part 0:36:46.080 --> 0:36:48.440 that wasn't just the voice you had to be an entertainer. 0:36:49.000 --> 0:36:53.600 So she was as pure vessel, completely as far away 0:36:53.640 --> 0:36:56.440 from Alice as you could possibly get in terms of 0:36:56.960 --> 0:36:59.360 her attraction and her drawer And. 0:37:00.880 --> 0:37:02.040 How did she come to your attention? 0:37:02.520 --> 0:37:05.480 I was up in Canada doing a pop fit a 0:37:05.600 --> 0:37:08.920 show with John Lennon the first time in Classic Chicken Show, Yeah, 0:37:08.960 --> 0:37:12.000 the Chicken Show, and she i turned on the TV. 0:37:12.040 --> 0:37:13.600 There was a guy named Brian to Hearn who was 0:37:13.640 --> 0:37:16.200 a producer, and he said, you gotta watch this TV 0:37:16.280 --> 0:37:19.759 show I had. I had this girl who teaches Jim 0:37:19.880 --> 0:37:23.480 in Canada who's singing this song Snowbird, and she's fantastic. 0:37:23.560 --> 0:37:24.560 You may want to work with her. 0:37:25.200 --> 0:37:26.960 And it was a summer show and she had been 0:37:27.160 --> 0:37:28.719 she was a gym teacher who got a job in 0:37:28.760 --> 0:37:31.879 the summer on this four week show and she sang 0:37:31.920 --> 0:37:36.239 Snowbird and I heard the song whoa and then just 0:37:36.320 --> 0:37:38.239 started to get some traction on radio and it got 0:37:38.280 --> 0:37:40.719 to number one. And when it got to number one, 0:37:40.719 --> 0:37:45.480 I knew the people the Capitol Records, and they and 0:37:45.600 --> 0:37:47.120 her called me and I said, oh, I know all 0:37:47.160 --> 0:37:47.480 about you. 0:37:47.600 --> 0:37:48.919 I was up in Canada. It was great. 0:37:49.680 --> 0:37:53.680 And so was this truly a time period in which 0:37:55.680 --> 0:37:58.680 I mean, I definitely know the seventies before MTV came 0:37:58.760 --> 0:38:02.600 to play in I mean, now you know image overtakes 0:38:02.680 --> 0:38:05.920 talent like talent doesn't even count anymore, borderline. 0:38:06.560 --> 0:38:07.280 In every field. 0:38:08.000 --> 0:38:11.040 But I mean, are you saying that at one point, 0:38:11.160 --> 0:38:16.160 at least for a good twenty year period, talent could 0:38:16.280 --> 0:38:19.400 account for something in which, well, I wouldn't go that far. 0:38:20.360 --> 0:38:22.960 But here was the difference between then and now, I 0:38:23.040 --> 0:38:30.840 think is it Radio was open to playing things. Radio 0:38:31.040 --> 0:38:36.400 ruled the world. Hit records ruled everything entertainment. It was 0:38:36.440 --> 0:38:38.520 a very different world that It wasn't like a concert 0:38:38.640 --> 0:38:42.160 world where you had to be a great performer and 0:38:44.560 --> 0:38:48.240 if you could get the record company to spend the money, 0:38:48.920 --> 0:38:52.359 you could have hit records. And that was my goal 0:38:52.440 --> 0:38:55.759 with her, was to get hit records. And I got 0:38:55.800 --> 0:38:58.279 her in this I decided that I would try and 0:38:58.560 --> 0:39:01.879 put her next to the biggest in the world, take 0:39:02.040 --> 0:39:04.080 that back to the record company and see if they 0:39:04.120 --> 0:39:06.080 would treat her like one of the biggest stars. 0:39:05.880 --> 0:39:07.400 In the world. And I got so. 0:39:07.480 --> 0:39:10.040 It was a heart sale, a very heart cell heart 0:39:10.080 --> 0:39:12.800 sale to her and a heart sale to the record company. 0:39:13.920 --> 0:39:17.200 But once I got the picture with I orchestrated an 0:39:17.239 --> 0:39:21.680 event where John Lennon, Mickey Dolan's, who was gigantic the monkeys. 0:39:21.640 --> 0:39:22.839 He's the biggest thing in the world. 0:39:22.880 --> 0:39:29.200 Then Harry Nielsen, who was unbelievably respected by the industry, 0:39:29.280 --> 0:39:32.520 and Alice took a picture with her. And that picture 0:39:33.000 --> 0:39:35.279 enabled me to sell just about anybody. 0:39:38.560 --> 0:39:50.279 The White Soulfers that photo killed, We see what you did. No, 0:39:50.400 --> 0:39:51.080 I'm only playing. 0:39:51.160 --> 0:39:53.600 And I got her on hosting Midnight Special because if 0:39:53.640 --> 0:39:56.239 John Lennon liked her, she had to be great. It 0:39:56.400 --> 0:39:59.880 just thought it a circle of stuff. Then, you know, 0:40:00.040 --> 0:40:02.840 in those days it was much simpler. It was very different. 0:40:02.920 --> 0:40:05.960 There was nobody really knew who she was till she 0:40:06.160 --> 0:40:08.200 was famous. There was no Internet. You couldn't see how 0:40:08.640 --> 0:40:12.759 bland she was. None of that stuff got revealed. It 0:40:12.880 --> 0:40:15.840 was really about getting somebody to pay enough money to 0:40:15.920 --> 0:40:17.080 get her records on radio. 0:40:17.760 --> 0:40:19.760 But I mean, by that point a singer like Helen 0:40:19.840 --> 0:40:25.400 Ready had sort of prominent, so you know she there 0:40:25.560 --> 0:40:26.760 was a lane at least. 0:40:26.640 --> 0:40:30.040 For oh, definitely a lane. I've been a lane from 0:40:30.040 --> 0:40:30.680 all the way back. 0:40:31.200 --> 0:40:37.960 The concept of of wholesomeness and not movement and non entertainer, 0:40:38.160 --> 0:40:39.920 you know, non entertainment singers. 0:40:40.600 --> 0:40:43.279 What were her live concerts like I mean say. 0:40:43.239 --> 0:40:48.560 I mean for me, they were boring because they weren't entertaining. 0:40:48.680 --> 0:40:53.239 But for her audience she had this beautiful voice. You know, 0:40:53.360 --> 0:40:57.400 there was people would hold hands and wear suits and ties. 0:40:57.120 --> 0:40:57.200 And. 0:40:59.000 --> 0:41:00.640 By the times you had like five or six hits 0:41:00.719 --> 0:41:02.840 under her belt. Then it was like she established it. 0:41:02.960 --> 0:41:05.280 But and she turned out to be a very good performer. 0:41:05.360 --> 0:41:08.040 I mean she played to her audience. She really developed, 0:41:08.560 --> 0:41:13.400 and she got a style and a comfort level with 0:41:13.520 --> 0:41:15.880 the stage and with an audience. And I went to 0:41:15.920 --> 0:41:17.759 see her a few years after I stopped managing her, 0:41:17.760 --> 0:41:21.680 and it was really entertaining. I started Revere, she got 0:41:21.680 --> 0:41:22.840 a little production. 0:41:22.640 --> 0:41:29.080 In Okay, so the one thing well plus and also 0:41:30.239 --> 0:41:33.239 talking your head off a few times I've met you. 0:41:34.200 --> 0:41:39.359 I've come to discover now, of course super minch does 0:41:39.480 --> 0:41:44.200 touch on your your history, Teddy Pendograss. But then later 0:41:44.360 --> 0:41:50.040 I found out that you damn near managed everyone important 0:41:50.200 --> 0:41:55.000 in black music, which I mean Superman's kind of treated 0:41:55.080 --> 0:41:57.000 like a small foot road like. Oh and by the way, 0:41:57.080 --> 0:41:59.360 Rick James, no that. 0:41:59.440 --> 0:42:02.040 That listed the and the Superman. Just I copied that 0:42:02.160 --> 0:42:04.440 list and wrote it all down of everybody, and it 0:42:04.560 --> 0:42:08.680 was like whoa Rick James and Stephanie Mills and Lisa Fisher, 0:42:08.719 --> 0:42:11.080 which I'm sure was not happy about. 0:42:11.640 --> 0:42:13.839 He was very he was she was the background singer. 0:42:14.560 --> 0:42:19.600 So okay, So the thing I didn't know that was 0:42:19.760 --> 0:42:27.960 before before Okay, So Teddy went sold one seventy five, 0:42:28.040 --> 0:42:32.040 seventy six. You're saying that most black shows that occurred 0:42:32.680 --> 0:42:38.840 were strictly for radio stations and DJs and not for pay. 0:42:38.760 --> 0:42:42.799 And I mean audience is paid. Artists didn't get paid. 0:42:43.120 --> 0:42:46.960 There was an organization called the Black Promoters Association. I 0:42:47.000 --> 0:42:50.200 don't know if they still exist or not, but they 0:42:50.239 --> 0:42:54.040 were sort of the enforcers. And they had a collection 0:42:54.200 --> 0:42:56.719 of promoters who worked with the radio stations and the 0:42:56.800 --> 0:43:01.920 record companies, and they kept everybody in line. And it 0:43:02.080 --> 0:43:03.920 was a it was a you know, it was a 0:43:04.000 --> 0:43:07.279 street business. It was Teddy's last manager before me had 0:43:07.320 --> 0:43:11.279 been shot to death. It was a tough business and 0:43:11.600 --> 0:43:14.200 and they were making a lot of money and they 0:43:14.239 --> 0:43:14.719 didn't want. 0:43:14.640 --> 0:43:15.120 To give it up. 0:43:15.320 --> 0:43:16.920 And that didn't scare you at all. 0:43:16.960 --> 0:43:21.040 You know, I never it's funny or did they send you? 0:43:21.640 --> 0:43:23.200 They sent you in the line of fire. And then 0:43:23.320 --> 0:43:25.600 was like, oh, by the way, uh my last manager 0:43:25.640 --> 0:43:29.920 go so we'll get him, step Hey, you go get him. 0:43:32.640 --> 0:43:35.680 So you're saying like a cat, like, uh, let me 0:43:35.719 --> 0:43:39.319 pick a random seventies like mac davis. Mac Davis could 0:43:39.520 --> 0:43:41.680 go out and do whatever he wanted to do make 0:43:41.760 --> 0:43:46.880 some money. But Teddy went out strictly to ensure that 0:43:46.960 --> 0:43:48.759 his record played on the radio. He was. 0:43:48.920 --> 0:43:53.240 He was convinced by by the record company who profited 0:43:53.320 --> 0:43:55.560 greatly by the record sales and made nothing on the road, 0:43:55.920 --> 0:43:58.040 that the only way he was going to keep getting 0:43:58.120 --> 0:44:01.400 hit records and keep getting basically the rented car that 0:44:01.480 --> 0:44:02.000 they give him. 0:44:02.920 --> 0:44:06.840 Yeah, how how would he make money? Because Gamble, Gamble 0:44:06.880 --> 0:44:07.879 and Huff are writing the songs. 0:44:08.880 --> 0:44:10.279 He lived a very simple life. 0:44:10.360 --> 0:44:10.799 He wasn't. 0:44:10.920 --> 0:44:13.040 There was no mansions in any of those guys' lives. 0:44:13.719 --> 0:44:15.600 There were you know, you talked to the OJ's, you 0:44:15.680 --> 0:44:16.520 talked to all these guys. 0:44:16.560 --> 0:44:18.200 In the beginning, they were just working musicians. 0:44:18.239 --> 0:44:18.920 They were working. 0:44:18.840 --> 0:44:22.800 Musicians until when like when do you think for me? 0:44:22.960 --> 0:44:24.040 With Teddy it was. 0:44:26.680 --> 0:44:31.680 It was the second solo album. That's about when we started. 0:44:31.880 --> 0:44:36.120 That's when we we we Our history was that we 0:44:36.800 --> 0:44:40.640 I I understood, but once I understood the chilling check 0:44:40.719 --> 0:44:42.680 that we can't do this. So I booked them in 0:44:42.840 --> 0:44:47.239 Radio City Musical and we got picketed and nobody wanted 0:44:47.280 --> 0:44:50.640 across the picket line. The Black Promoters Association picketed us. 0:44:50.920 --> 0:44:53.600 So it was like al Haman and those guys are 0:44:53.640 --> 0:44:55.239 part of it. Or was al Haman more like the 0:44:55.320 --> 0:44:55.799 eighties and. 0:44:56.080 --> 0:44:57.239 He was go to part of it, but he was 0:44:57.280 --> 0:44:59.160 much more nutrient. He was the second wave, he was 0:44:59.840 --> 0:45:02.840 the the first wave was and good guys. I actually 0:45:02.880 --> 0:45:05.839 got friendly with most of the guys with Jesse Boseman's 0:45:06.600 --> 0:45:09.320 who I love, great guy. I mean, it's still a 0:45:09.400 --> 0:45:11.360 lot of respect from But that was their business and 0:45:11.400 --> 0:45:13.600 they were able to get away with it, and that's 0:45:13.680 --> 0:45:16.120 what they did. And so I said, I'm you know, 0:45:16.160 --> 0:45:18.600 I'm gonna have no We're not doing this. And I 0:45:18.680 --> 0:45:22.719 booked Teddy into a radio City and nobody wanted to 0:45:22.760 --> 0:45:24.880 cross the picket line. I mean, it got it was 0:45:25.239 --> 0:45:27.880 pretty deep. Jesse Jackson came and picketed. 0:45:29.160 --> 0:45:30.640 It was what it was deep. 0:45:32.120 --> 0:45:34.520 So I knew I had to do business with him. Somehow, 0:45:34.680 --> 0:45:38.560 some way, we had to do business, and we ended 0:45:38.640 --> 0:45:42.760 up making an arrangement with him. Then if Teddy played 0:45:42.840 --> 0:45:48.320 a institutional building like Radio City that was where the 0:45:48.400 --> 0:45:51.400 promoter owned the building, they would allow us to do 0:45:51.520 --> 0:45:52.520 it as long as we paid. 0:45:52.440 --> 0:45:52.879 Him a fee. 0:45:54.040 --> 0:45:54.960 So it's like the mafia. 0:45:55.880 --> 0:45:57.560 Yeah, but every business, I mean, you know, try and 0:45:57.640 --> 0:46:00.880 buy laundry in New York and then you're restaurant and 0:46:01.239 --> 0:46:04.520 you know, it's still the same life works the same way. 0:46:04.560 --> 0:46:06.200 It just the way contribute to somebody. 0:46:06.280 --> 0:46:08.520 Yeah, yeah, it always works that way. So that was 0:46:08.560 --> 0:46:10.000 the way we sort of got out. 0:46:10.040 --> 0:46:12.680 And then what we did was we just played those 0:46:12.760 --> 0:46:15.799 kind of places and finally they came back to us 0:46:15.800 --> 0:46:19.040 and said, okay, we'll let you. My beef was money, 0:46:19.120 --> 0:46:23.680 but it was also promotion. They didn't do anything, and 0:46:23.760 --> 0:46:27.080 I wanted the shows promoted. So we finally made arrangement 0:46:27.160 --> 0:46:29.960 that date we could take a white promoter who has 0:46:30.400 --> 0:46:32.960 been in the business, pair them with someone from the 0:46:33.000 --> 0:46:36.719 Black Promoters Association, give them their fifty percent. 0:46:36.520 --> 0:46:39.600 Of the date, but don't come, don't do anything. 0:46:39.440 --> 0:46:43.880 Right right, just leave us alone. So all those shows 0:46:44.080 --> 0:46:48.279 that are you saying that that was the modus operandi 0:46:48.400 --> 0:46:50.080 for the average black show. 0:46:50.239 --> 0:46:52.439 And then well what happened is then other people's earth 0:46:52.520 --> 0:46:55.440 winded fire came on that highway. A lot of acts 0:46:55.480 --> 0:46:59.800 started to follow that highway and everything started to So 0:47:00.080 --> 0:47:02.920 did this at the grade a little bit, and it 0:47:03.040 --> 0:47:05.759 opened up. By the time I got to Rick James, 0:47:05.760 --> 0:47:07.000 I didn't have to deal with it at all. 0:47:07.120 --> 0:47:09.160 So with the exception of like James Brown, you're seeing, 0:47:09.280 --> 0:47:11.520 everyone had to go through that funnel system. 0:47:12.280 --> 0:47:13.880 I'm sure James Brown probably went through. 0:47:13.920 --> 0:47:14.160 Well. 0:47:14.560 --> 0:47:17.359 I know that he was kind of handling his own 0:47:17.440 --> 0:47:21.000 business or whatnot. But that's it was great. That's what 0:47:21.080 --> 0:47:21.279 it was. 0:47:21.360 --> 0:47:23.200 It was a childing circuit. It's just the way it was. 0:47:24.360 --> 0:47:29.040 Wow. I went I went to elementary school on in 0:47:29.120 --> 0:47:34.759 Philadelphia at thirteen three thirteen Broad Street, which is right 0:47:34.880 --> 0:47:36.400 next door at the Philly International. 0:47:36.880 --> 0:47:39.080 So at that great bar across the street. 0:47:39.280 --> 0:47:40.920 The name of that bar, I forget. 0:47:41.080 --> 0:47:43.000 There was a great bar in the corner and everybody 0:47:43.080 --> 0:47:43.920 hung at it, the. 0:47:44.000 --> 0:47:45.440 Former Philadelphia International. 0:47:46.040 --> 0:47:49.360 Yeah, now it's a SLS hotel. Oh is that what 0:47:49.440 --> 0:47:49.600 it is? 0:47:49.680 --> 0:47:49.799 Though? 0:47:50.280 --> 0:47:55.359 Yeah, they're about to build an SLS. But I could 0:47:55.400 --> 0:47:58.120 time it perfectly, like and I could tell that he 0:47:58.239 --> 0:48:01.719 might have been on CP time every time because I 0:48:01.800 --> 0:48:05.480 could always I knew when teddypin the grass was outside 0:48:06.080 --> 0:48:09.719 mm hmm. It was always like twelve twenty two, like 0:48:09.880 --> 0:48:13.280 during lunch break, so between like third and sixth grade, 0:48:13.400 --> 0:48:17.840 like like clockwork, I could catch teddypin the grass right outside, 0:48:18.080 --> 0:48:22.759 right outside of affiliateder like I've never seen a kind 0:48:22.800 --> 0:48:27.320 of this hard day's night fan mobbing situation. Wow. And 0:48:27.800 --> 0:48:31.279 he had a a well I assume it was a 0:48:31.360 --> 0:48:32.120 rose voice or whatever. 0:48:32.320 --> 0:48:36.680 The white girls yeah with a license played Teddy rented 0:48:36.840 --> 0:48:38.960 right that I think they. 0:48:40.960 --> 0:48:44.120 Yeah, And I just like that made an impression on me, 0:48:44.239 --> 0:48:45.880 not like man one day, I want you want to 0:48:45.880 --> 0:48:53.200 be a pill people. So I mean, but what I 0:48:53.320 --> 0:48:56.400 know you can't get super personal of it. But I 0:48:56.480 --> 0:49:02.239 mean the the heating stick idea of what a rock 0:49:02.280 --> 0:49:06.600 star was, I know that was that for Teddy Pa, 0:49:08.200 --> 0:49:14.920 which I mean, how not bad did it get? How 0:49:15.800 --> 0:49:18.080 did it how extreme? 0:49:19.239 --> 0:49:22.960 Because now, but it's all a matter of levels. And 0:49:23.440 --> 0:49:26.839 Teddy was probably making more money than he ever thought 0:49:26.880 --> 0:49:28.600 he'd ever make in his whole life, just by the 0:49:28.719 --> 0:49:32.080 drippings from the side, you know he was. He's selling 0:49:32.200 --> 0:49:35.880 millions of records. That's a lot of money. So if 0:49:35.920 --> 0:49:39.040 a couple one hundred thousand maybe went off to him, 0:49:39.040 --> 0:49:41.840 where another a white artist may have gotten a million. 0:49:42.800 --> 0:49:45.399 If he's getting a couple of hundred thousand, that's big money. 0:49:45.800 --> 0:49:50.279 Because all you know is what you know, and you know. 0:49:50.480 --> 0:49:53.000 So he was when I got involved, he was happy. 0:49:53.040 --> 0:49:55.120 He had no problem with going and doing the dates 0:49:55.160 --> 0:49:57.800 and not getting paid. It was my problem, not his problem. 0:49:58.800 --> 0:50:00.839 He accepted it as that was the way of life, 0:50:00.880 --> 0:50:03.480 and he was getting enough drippings to come in that 0:50:03.640 --> 0:50:05.640 he felt like he was on top of the world. 0:50:06.840 --> 0:50:11.600 So how are you able to orchestrate the women only concerts? 0:50:11.840 --> 0:50:11.880 Like? 0:50:12.000 --> 0:50:13.520 Were their guards there to stop? 0:50:13.960 --> 0:50:14.000 No? 0:50:14.280 --> 0:50:14.320 No. 0:50:14.760 --> 0:50:17.920 I I realized when I thought of it that I 0:50:18.360 --> 0:50:21.560 could get sued if I didn't let guys in. And 0:50:21.680 --> 0:50:23.360 every you know, everybody told me I couldn't do it 0:50:23.400 --> 0:50:24.640 because and I just said, if they want to buy 0:50:24.640 --> 0:50:26.960 a ticket, I don't care if they buy a ticket 0:50:27.000 --> 0:50:30.160 and come in. I just want the twenty five million 0:50:30.200 --> 0:50:33.359 people who aren't attending the concert to see for women only. 0:50:33.800 --> 0:50:35.600 I couldn't care if there's a guy in the place. 0:50:38.560 --> 0:50:42.360 No, even though I think, but they made HBO and 0:50:43.000 --> 0:50:45.680 it was like I think it was only cuts of women, 0:50:45.760 --> 0:50:47.120 so I only thought. 0:50:47.280 --> 0:50:47.920 That's all they were. 0:50:49.480 --> 0:50:51.319 It did make it. Yeah, No men came. 0:50:51.520 --> 0:50:52.400 No men came at all. 0:50:52.480 --> 0:50:55.400 I mean they could have, but they were outside. We 0:50:55.520 --> 0:50:58.040 had a lot of pimps outside waiting for their ladies to. 0:51:00.080 --> 0:51:00.560 The letout. 0:51:01.239 --> 0:51:04.200 I have reason to believe that Teddy rocked a few 0:51:04.360 --> 0:51:08.080 marriages in my family's, but my extended family. 0:51:08.200 --> 0:51:09.920 The best part of those shows is we gave out 0:51:09.960 --> 0:51:13.600 everybody chocolate Teddy Bear lollipops, so he go had to 0:51:13.680 --> 0:51:14.320 like close. 0:51:14.160 --> 0:51:16.479 The door and you're seeing them out in the audio 0:51:16.560 --> 0:51:25.160 to grow up, clicking the lollipop and biting its head off. Teddy. Yeah, 0:51:25.400 --> 0:51:29.160 patties a lot of patties on stage. 0:51:29.880 --> 0:51:32.800 Did it ever bother him in the least? Or was 0:51:32.840 --> 0:51:33.960 he just enjoying it? 0:51:34.200 --> 0:51:36.279 He enjoyed it, Teddy was. 0:51:36.600 --> 0:51:38.840 I had such a great time working with Teddy was 0:51:39.280 --> 0:51:41.400 one of my you know, Alice for me is like 0:51:41.440 --> 0:51:42.600 an armor after Alice. 0:51:42.640 --> 0:51:47.719 Teddy Teddy was, I was. He's my favorite music. That's 0:51:47.760 --> 0:51:48.799 what I listened to at home. 0:51:49.280 --> 0:51:50.840 It's the only thing I play in my house for 0:51:50.920 --> 0:51:55.919 the last fifteen years is Teddy. And he just loved 0:51:55.960 --> 0:51:56.840 being that character. 0:51:56.960 --> 0:51:58.279 I loved it was. 0:51:59.560 --> 0:52:01.640 I used to have these great conversations with him. I 0:52:01.640 --> 0:52:05.000 would show up and he say, oh shit, this is 0:52:05.080 --> 0:52:06.960 the time, and I say, yeah, we called it that 0:52:07.040 --> 0:52:09.080 don't be a schmuck conversations and. 0:52:09.160 --> 0:52:11.440 I sort of shut the door and I go, man, 0:52:11.520 --> 0:52:14.759 you're being a schmuck. Have I a schmuck again? And 0:52:15.520 --> 0:52:18.120 I get it off my chest and we deal with it. 0:52:18.200 --> 0:52:18.719 He was great. 0:52:18.760 --> 0:52:22.280 You could you could talk, you know, with some artists, 0:52:22.320 --> 0:52:25.759 you have to tiptoe around the issue. You have to 0:52:25.840 --> 0:52:27.399 figure out a way to get to where you want 0:52:27.440 --> 0:52:29.400 to go with him. You didn't have to tiptoe. I 0:52:29.440 --> 0:52:35.240 could just tell him, you know, as as h fancy 0:52:35.280 --> 0:52:36.359 as I could what I felt. 0:52:36.760 --> 0:52:39.440 So what would be what would be an issue? Then? 0:52:39.480 --> 0:52:42.560 Well, actually for women only came out of it. That's 0:52:42.600 --> 0:52:46.960 how the concert happened. He played, I got really pissed 0:52:46.960 --> 0:52:48.960 when I went and did the first Chiplin circuit show 0:52:49.000 --> 0:52:51.920 with him. Really pissed me off, like, you can't let 0:52:51.960 --> 0:52:54.120 this happen. That's when he told me his manager got killed. 0:52:54.680 --> 0:52:56.040 And I said, you know, I don't give a shit. 0:52:56.080 --> 0:52:59.880 I don't have kids, I don't care let him kill me, 0:53:00.320 --> 0:53:02.319 but I'm not going to be part of this thing. 0:53:02.960 --> 0:53:03.840 And he said, what do we do? 0:53:03.880 --> 0:53:05.480 I said, I'm going to book you in the whitest 0:53:05.520 --> 0:53:11.759 place I can find and fuck him excuse me, and 0:53:11.880 --> 0:53:14.200 we're going. Uh So I booked him in the Roxy 0:53:15.000 --> 0:53:19.400 in l a, which very white bread, small club. I 0:53:19.480 --> 0:53:21.359 don't think a black artist that ever played it. At 0:53:21.400 --> 0:53:26.040 that point, we got a lot of death threats we 0:53:26.160 --> 0:53:29.600 got we ended up getting FBI security there. 0:53:29.920 --> 0:53:33.080 They for what the black Promoters Association. 0:53:33.239 --> 0:53:39.759 Oh okay, I thought, so, you know, so, I'm like 0:53:39.960 --> 0:53:44.560 risking my life to do this rock the Roxy. You're 0:53:44.560 --> 0:53:46.160 not going to make any money in the Roxy. It's 0:53:46.200 --> 0:53:52.279 two hundred seats. And I had only done one show 0:53:52.360 --> 0:53:55.640 with him, right, And we get to the Roxy and 0:53:55.680 --> 0:53:58.839 he does the whole show sitting on a stool. All 0:53:58.960 --> 0:54:01.360 the women wanted to do was like grab him and 0:54:02.560 --> 0:54:05.800 fucking brains. And he's sitting on a stool being this 0:54:05.960 --> 0:54:12.239 really cool, really cool guy, like you know, and I 0:54:12.440 --> 0:54:16.040 was getting furious, like furious, like I can't believe you're 0:54:16.080 --> 0:54:18.480 not giving it up. The energy in this room is 0:54:18.560 --> 0:54:19.480 so strong at you. 0:54:19.960 --> 0:54:22.960 And you're just you're not reacting, you're not engaging, You're 0:54:23.000 --> 0:54:23.640 not engaging it. 0:54:23.719 --> 0:54:25.239 You're not giving it back to him, You're not doing 0:54:25.840 --> 0:54:27.759 So I go upstairs and this is only my second 0:54:27.800 --> 0:54:29.840 show with him, and he's got these two security guys, 0:54:30.400 --> 0:54:33.120 one real big, one real small, and they really don't 0:54:33.160 --> 0:54:35.200 know me, and they tell me I got to wait. 0:54:35.880 --> 0:54:38.600 Teddy's getting, you know, changing, which really pisses me off 0:54:38.680 --> 0:54:40.720 to begin with because I'm used to immediate access. 0:54:41.520 --> 0:54:46.160 And then this PARADEI of women starts coming in and 0:54:46.640 --> 0:54:47.880 you know, a woman comes in and. 0:54:47.880 --> 0:54:50.239 I'm out there. It's fifteen minutes later. The next one 0:54:50.360 --> 0:54:55.200 comes in. Now it's two o'clock in the morning. I've 0:54:55.280 --> 0:54:58.160 risked my life. I hate the show and I'm sitting 0:54:58.200 --> 0:54:58.680 here at two. 0:54:58.600 --> 0:55:02.080 O'clock in the morning and I get in you mother 0:55:02.239 --> 0:55:05.400 the fucker, Who the fuck do you think you are? 0:55:06.160 --> 0:55:09.759 You know, I've risked my life for you to sit 0:55:09.840 --> 0:55:13.160 on a fucking stool and and like be cool, and 0:55:13.520 --> 0:55:15.840 then you make me wait till two o'clock in the morning, 0:55:16.400 --> 0:55:19.160 Go fuck yourself. And he said, hey, man, what do 0:55:19.200 --> 0:55:21.480 you expect from me? I'll tell you what to expect me. 0:55:21.560 --> 0:55:24.600 To get those women crazy, and let me be the 0:55:24.680 --> 0:55:26.160 only guy in the room when you're doing it. I 0:55:26.200 --> 0:55:29.399 will have the greatest time ever. And then I said, 0:55:29.400 --> 0:55:32.200 wait a second, let's do shows for women only. Well 0:55:32.280 --> 0:55:34.880 I do know that, And that was it came out 0:55:34.920 --> 0:55:38.160 of that moment. Don't be a conversation. And he said, 0:55:38.200 --> 0:55:40.399 can we do that? And I said, yeah, I'm sure 0:55:40.400 --> 0:55:41.560 we can do anything we want to do. 0:55:41.719 --> 0:55:42.320 Let's go do it. 0:55:42.880 --> 0:55:43.000 Well. 0:55:43.040 --> 0:55:45.120 I think before this point there used to always be 0:55:45.280 --> 0:55:49.040 two sets of shows, because even Sam Cook had the 0:55:49.160 --> 0:55:55.000 show that he did at the Kopa, the Dinner Shownight Midnight, 0:55:55.160 --> 0:55:59.040 do the you know, rebel Rousing Show, and James Brown Motown. 0:55:59.200 --> 0:56:04.400 Like I think maybe because perhaps Mark how Melvin, the 0:56:04.400 --> 0:56:08.359 Blue Notes sort of had to have dual shows as well, 0:56:08.440 --> 0:56:11.640 like you play certain places where it's like suit and time, 0:56:12.120 --> 0:56:14.800 you know, because I saw one of their concert tapes 0:56:14.800 --> 0:56:18.200 where I mean they were doing like Broadway Danny Rose 0:56:18.280 --> 0:56:24.920 and stuff, let us entertain you, like songs from Yeah. 0:56:26.239 --> 0:56:26.279 No. 0:56:26.440 --> 0:56:30.839 They were doing like magic Tricks and wow. I was like, really, 0:56:31.280 --> 0:56:35.160 I never knew how Blue Notes seeing the way we 0:56:35.280 --> 0:56:40.640 were seeing the sho now getting ready for the Josh. Yeah. 0:56:40.680 --> 0:56:42.800 But I mean just pretty much even James Brown, like 0:56:42.920 --> 0:56:45.840 star Time was like the hits, but then he do 0:56:46.000 --> 0:56:48.320 some Sinatra stuff he do that's life and you know, 0:56:48.520 --> 0:56:51.280 like the I can be serious and play the copa. 0:56:51.560 --> 0:56:53.000 So maybe that was the mentality. 0:56:53.160 --> 0:56:54.560 I think he was just trying to be cool. 0:56:55.040 --> 0:56:58.640 So where the audience or the the demographics different as well, 0:56:58.840 --> 0:57:02.360 Like did he ever, Yeah, it was it was he 0:57:02.640 --> 0:57:05.240 started at the end to get some white audience. 0:57:05.840 --> 0:57:06.920 Once he got once. 0:57:08.239 --> 0:57:11.200 They the press finally started calling him the black Elvis, 0:57:12.000 --> 0:57:14.280 and that sort of attracted a lot of white women 0:57:15.160 --> 0:57:17.720 once they said black Elvis, but up till but never 0:57:17.920 --> 0:57:21.439 really was gigantic, But it was. It was every woman 0:57:21.560 --> 0:57:21.960 in town. 0:57:22.200 --> 0:57:22.760 I mean it was. 0:57:23.480 --> 0:57:25.600 It was fantastic and they had the greatest time. I 0:57:25.680 --> 0:57:29.000 mean it really it paid off. He was an entertainer 0:57:29.040 --> 0:57:31.440 who paid off. They went home exhausted. 0:57:31.720 --> 0:57:34.200 Let me ask you a personal question, because in the 0:57:34.320 --> 0:57:36.720 documentary some of your friends admit that you. 0:57:37.120 --> 0:57:37.960 Love the ladies. 0:57:38.440 --> 0:57:42.800 Do so how does the police police himself? Because if 0:57:42.840 --> 0:57:45.520 you were, you know, with these guys like Teddy and 0:57:45.680 --> 0:57:48.400 Alls and where women were everywhere, was there a moment 0:57:48.440 --> 0:57:50.800 when you had to go or maybe just three to 0:57:50.920 --> 0:57:52.160 night or just two? 0:57:53.280 --> 0:58:00.240 No, okay, I was just I was. 0:58:01.520 --> 0:58:05.240 I've always I've always been very direct. I try to 0:58:05.320 --> 0:58:09.280 always be honest. And in those days, I was overworking, 0:58:09.920 --> 0:58:12.160 you know, I was. That was all I had was 0:58:12.240 --> 0:58:13.479 my work. That's all I cared about. 0:58:13.960 --> 0:58:17.800 So there wasn't really time for relationships. So but I 0:58:18.000 --> 0:58:20.120 loved women and I love sex. 0:58:20.480 --> 0:58:22.040 Did you have any did you have some game? 0:58:22.280 --> 0:58:22.360 Well? 0:58:22.440 --> 0:58:25.640 So what not great game? Not great game, but great 0:58:25.720 --> 0:58:28.720 access Because I had I was in the midst of 0:58:28.760 --> 0:58:30.640 all the stars. Always, I was standing next to the 0:58:30.680 --> 0:58:32.040 people they wanted to be next to. 0:58:32.440 --> 0:58:34.600 Everybody wanted to be with the lead singer of a band. 0:58:35.040 --> 0:58:38.240 And so I said to myself, how can I I 0:58:38.480 --> 0:58:41.840 don't have the time to romance someone. You know, it's 0:58:41.960 --> 0:58:44.120 like it's eleven thirty, I got to get up at six. 0:58:44.320 --> 0:58:45.360 I'm in a hotel room. 0:58:45.760 --> 0:58:47.360 I don't have time to like, I love you, I 0:58:47.480 --> 0:58:50.240 love you, And it's not honest. Actually, everybody else on 0:58:50.360 --> 0:58:52.840 the road is like telling these girls that they know 0:58:52.960 --> 0:58:55.960 they're never going to see again how much they love them. 0:58:56.400 --> 0:58:58.720 Just to get him into the bed. And that's yeah. 0:58:58.720 --> 0:59:00.640 And I said, I can't do that. So I said, 0:59:00.840 --> 0:59:02.880 what do I do? I said, well, what's my strength. 0:59:03.520 --> 0:59:05.920 My strength is that I can get these women a 0:59:06.000 --> 0:59:09.200 backstage pass to meet the lead singer. So I made 0:59:09.280 --> 0:59:12.040 up a T shirt that said, no head no backstage 0:59:12.080 --> 0:59:15.800 pass was honest. You wanted great, you don't want it great, 0:59:16.240 --> 0:59:17.320 no problem at all. 0:59:19.600 --> 0:59:21.960 It was head based, which that was what stopped you 0:59:22.000 --> 0:59:25.360 from having so many thoughts thought babies, Yeah, okay, oh 0:59:25.520 --> 0:59:26.440 that was very smart. 0:59:27.400 --> 0:59:34.520 It eliminated the down side in fulfill the upside. It 0:59:34.640 --> 0:59:36.200 was sort of honest right to the floor. 0:59:41.800 --> 0:59:46.000 So shut I got, I gotta I gotta ask uh, 0:59:46.880 --> 0:59:50.720 because I remember again as a Philadelphian, I remember it 0:59:50.840 --> 0:59:57.000 so well. But can you take us through the like 0:59:57.920 --> 1:00:01.080 I believe, like March of eighty two when you got 1:00:01.200 --> 1:00:02.680 that phone call, like. 1:00:02.840 --> 1:00:06.720 What I got a phone call that Teddy had his accident. 1:00:07.600 --> 1:00:08.480 Do you still remember it? 1:00:08.560 --> 1:00:10.640 Like, oh, like it was yesterday. I remember. 1:00:10.920 --> 1:00:14.000 I don't remember getting to Philly. I remember the elevated 1:00:14.280 --> 1:00:19.560 the elevated door in the hospital opening, and uh, Sedonia 1:00:19.640 --> 1:00:24.440 Walker was there who ran Teddy's office, and Karen who 1:00:24.600 --> 1:00:26.640 was I don't know if she was his wife at 1:00:26.680 --> 1:00:28.320 that point, she had been a singer in the show. 1:00:29.320 --> 1:00:32.680 She was there, Teddy's mom, who's still alive and just 1:00:32.760 --> 1:00:35.960 an amazing wow. I mean like they should build a 1:00:36.000 --> 1:00:40.360 statue to her. She is a remarkable woman. And the 1:00:40.480 --> 1:00:44.680 doctor because they had called him that the doors opening 1:00:44.880 --> 1:00:47.640 and they said, mister the doctor and mister Gordon's lad 1:00:47.680 --> 1:00:52.520 you're here. Teddy is never going to walk again. We're 1:00:52.560 --> 1:00:54.040 not sure if he's going to live again or not, 1:00:54.240 --> 1:00:57.280 but it's really important in his recovery for us to 1:00:57.440 --> 1:01:00.840 tell him rapidly that he's not going to walk again. 1:01:01.360 --> 1:01:04.200 We found that that's really part of the way if 1:01:04.240 --> 1:01:06.880 he's going to come through this thing. He's got to 1:01:06.960 --> 1:01:07.440 know it now. 1:01:08.200 --> 1:01:09.200 And why was that? 1:01:09.560 --> 1:01:12.240 I have no idea and everybody like they just wanted 1:01:12.280 --> 1:01:15.080 you to put it in this instantly bam, and they 1:01:15.120 --> 1:01:16.520 said no, and we kill all. 1:01:16.440 --> 1:01:18.920 Hopes, so you know, so it's reality and you know 1:01:18.960 --> 1:01:20.760 where you're going to kill the spirit though. 1:01:21.360 --> 1:01:26.080 You know he's strapped to a table that they flip 1:01:26.160 --> 1:01:28.200 every ten minutes. Yeah, I saw that device like that 1:01:28.560 --> 1:01:31.880 and all he could do is blink. That was the 1:01:32.000 --> 1:01:34.240 only you know, like, can you can you hear me? 1:01:34.360 --> 1:01:38.000 Teddy blink once, yes, twice no, and he blink and 1:01:38.040 --> 1:01:40.959 then they'd flip him every ten minutes, and they said, 1:01:41.520 --> 1:01:44.080 and everybody felt that you should be part of the 1:01:44.120 --> 1:01:47.680 team to tell him. And within sixty seconds, I'm in 1:01:47.760 --> 1:01:49.440 his room telling the guy that he's never going to 1:01:49.520 --> 1:01:52.000 walk again. It was a guy I love, I mean 1:01:52.440 --> 1:01:59.320 love Teddy. I can't I still love him. Amazing, just 1:01:59.360 --> 1:02:03.720 an amazing you know. He gave me the trust. Not easy, 1:02:05.560 --> 1:02:10.640 really not easy, and so that was a pretty traumatic moment. 1:02:10.680 --> 1:02:15.520 And I went and he had some children. I didn't 1:02:15.560 --> 1:02:18.200 know how many, because Teddy was he didn't wear the 1:02:18.240 --> 1:02:26.200 same T shirt I did. And he spent everything he had, 1:02:28.680 --> 1:02:30.360 no matter what how much he made, he spent it. 1:02:30.800 --> 1:02:32.480 So I knew there was no money to take care 1:02:32.520 --> 1:02:35.800 of everybody. So I decided I had to attach myself 1:02:35.880 --> 1:02:38.240 emotionally from this. The doctors would take care of him, 1:02:38.720 --> 1:02:41.600 I would, I would figure out how to take care 1:02:41.640 --> 1:02:45.320 of his family. So there was a beer company that 1:02:45.440 --> 1:02:48.960 had been sponsoring us, who will go unnamed, and I 1:02:49.080 --> 1:02:52.240 called him up and I explained what happened and told 1:02:52.320 --> 1:02:54.040 him about the kids, and they agreed to put some 1:02:54.120 --> 1:02:58.280 money into a trust fund, sizeable trust fund and get 1:02:58.320 --> 1:03:01.400 the goodwill for the beer company and help Teddy's family 1:03:01.520 --> 1:03:06.400 and wow, And I thought, okay, got it done with, 1:03:06.560 --> 1:03:08.560 Like I think a million dollars or two million dollars. 1:03:09.000 --> 1:03:12.600 Go to sleep, wake up in the morning, get the newspaper. 1:03:14.280 --> 1:03:16.000 The girl in the car with Teddy was a guy 1:03:17.280 --> 1:03:19.520 front page story, so I knew I would never hear 1:03:19.560 --> 1:03:22.600 from the beer company ever again, which I never did. 1:03:22.760 --> 1:03:26.080 So they revealed that in the daily news front page. Yeah, yeah, 1:03:26.160 --> 1:03:28.720 I remember, I mean I was really young. 1:03:29.080 --> 1:03:31.320 The reason why I remember my mother she was I mean, 1:03:31.360 --> 1:03:34.320 she loved him, and that was one of the first times, 1:03:34.760 --> 1:03:37.560 like with the celebrity. I remember seeing my mother cry 1:03:37.800 --> 1:03:41.360 like I remember her when the news broke. I mean 1:03:41.400 --> 1:03:42.480 I was like three four years old. 1:03:42.800 --> 1:03:43.640 It was crying. 1:03:43.920 --> 1:03:47.280 His connection to his audience. I've never seen a connection 1:03:47.440 --> 1:03:50.280 like he had to his audience. To these women, they 1:03:50.400 --> 1:03:52.800 really felt that well, he was one of the few 1:03:52.920 --> 1:03:53.640 he was there. 1:03:53.840 --> 1:03:54.720 You know, each one. 1:03:54.680 --> 1:04:00.440 Felt personally like he was their lover, their son, their husband. 1:04:00.760 --> 1:04:02.280 It was really remarkable relations. 1:04:02.400 --> 1:04:04.240 It was this very I mean he was such a 1:04:04.880 --> 1:04:09.480 masculine figure. I mean not saying that, you know the answer. 1:04:09.520 --> 1:04:12.440 Worst man I ever saw him, My biggest presence I've 1:04:12.480 --> 1:04:14.400 ever seen. I mean he walked in a room and. 1:04:14.680 --> 1:04:16.760 Was like wow, not for nothing. 1:04:16.880 --> 1:04:18.680 I remember as his album when I was a little girl, 1:04:18.680 --> 1:04:20.320 and that was the only album that I knew, and 1:04:20.360 --> 1:04:21.800 I used to sing and perform it in front of 1:04:21.880 --> 1:04:25.400 my my family and friend. So you read about that 1:04:25.520 --> 1:04:26.040 all ages. 1:04:26.240 --> 1:04:28.800 So I wake up in that story is in the newspaper. 1:04:29.360 --> 1:04:31.480 So as a manager, how what do you do? 1:04:31.640 --> 1:04:31.800 Then? 1:04:31.920 --> 1:04:31.960 Like? 1:04:32.800 --> 1:04:33.720 So what I did then? 1:04:33.840 --> 1:04:40.400 And it I called missus pendergrass Ida. 1:04:41.880 --> 1:04:44.120 And I said, I think we I think we have 1:04:44.200 --> 1:04:47.360 a problem. I don't think the beer Company's going to 1:04:47.440 --> 1:04:49.920 do what I said they were going to do. Can 1:04:50.000 --> 1:04:51.640 I come out to the house and go through all 1:04:51.680 --> 1:04:53.720 the tapes and see if I can find maybe there's 1:04:53.760 --> 1:04:57.360 some songs that Teddy's done that haven't been released, and 1:04:57.440 --> 1:04:59.960 I can get someone to pay to put him out. 1:05:00.040 --> 1:05:05.560 I found an album's worth of material and the rest 1:05:05.600 --> 1:05:07.560 of the story is almost too ugly to tell, but 1:05:07.640 --> 1:05:11.480 we got him some money. He was recording for a 1:05:11.560 --> 1:05:16.400 record company. I went to the record company that distributed 1:05:16.440 --> 1:05:21.240 their record company, CBS correct CBS, and they were CBS 1:05:21.360 --> 1:05:23.280 agreed to give me a million dollars for Teddy for 1:05:23.360 --> 1:05:27.720 the tapes. But but they said they couldn't pay it 1:05:27.760 --> 1:05:30.160 to us directly. Teddy was signed to p I R. 1:05:31.120 --> 1:05:33.360 They had to give it the p I R. So 1:05:33.520 --> 1:05:35.880 I took Teddy's mom and the two kids that I 1:05:35.960 --> 1:05:40.080 knew of to gamble on Huff's office. I remember sitting 1:05:40.120 --> 1:05:43.880 in the chair was it was always dramatic to sit 1:05:44.000 --> 1:05:46.120 there because they sat. 1:05:46.000 --> 1:05:50.880 In two thrones and behind them were all the black militants, 1:05:52.080 --> 1:05:55.520 all of them. All of them talked about killing people 1:05:55.640 --> 1:05:55.840 like me. 1:05:56.800 --> 1:05:58.320 You didn't have a good cozy relationship. 1:05:58.360 --> 1:06:02.680 It wasn't the war it's place to be. And told 1:06:02.720 --> 1:06:03.440 them what I had done. 1:06:03.440 --> 1:06:05.560 They got very mad that I went to CBS behind 1:06:05.600 --> 1:06:09.720 their back, but they did finally agree that they would 1:06:09.960 --> 1:06:12.400 get the check and give it to Teddy. And they 1:06:12.440 --> 1:06:14.160 did get the check and they gave part of it 1:06:14.280 --> 1:06:17.760 to Teddy, so that saved us for a while, and. 1:06:19.520 --> 1:06:23.160 Then I had it. In the contract there was a 1:06:23.240 --> 1:06:27.160 soundtrack clause that he could do one album not on 1:06:27.280 --> 1:06:29.280 p I R if it was a soundtrack of a 1:06:29.360 --> 1:06:33.400 movie Super one. Yeah. So I went to I went 1:06:33.520 --> 1:06:36.160 to did you work on Super One? 1:06:36.480 --> 1:06:38.800 No? I just know that. Yeah, I I've never seen 1:06:38.840 --> 1:06:40.600 the movie, but I haven't record. 1:06:40.520 --> 1:06:42.439 I worked on that. That was a barbon Worth movie. 1:06:43.440 --> 1:06:45.600 Anyway, I never know the movie ever came out. 1:06:45.640 --> 1:06:49.640 I just yeah, So I made this movie. 1:06:49.640 --> 1:06:52.960 I satted a film company, made a movie called Choose Me, 1:06:55.000 --> 1:06:57.760 and Teddy got the sound got an advanced from a 1:06:57.840 --> 1:07:00.680 lecture for the soundtrack, and that's to what put him 1:07:00.720 --> 1:07:03.440 on straightened out, took care of the kids, took care 1:07:03.480 --> 1:07:03.880 of the mom. 1:07:04.360 --> 1:07:06.280 So by the time you guys own electure when he 1:07:06.400 --> 1:07:10.240 did like the Joy album, that were things like good. 1:07:10.600 --> 1:07:12.640 Things yes, because because the Electra stepped up to the 1:07:12.720 --> 1:07:16.080 line and gave him, uh, there was a fellow named 1:07:16.120 --> 1:07:19.800 Bob kras Now, and he had just taken over Electra 1:07:20.560 --> 1:07:29.120 and I had promised Teddy that if he did something 1:07:30.080 --> 1:07:34.400 legally that I could get him a million dollars. And 1:07:34.560 --> 1:07:37.439 he did it and the guy renegged on a million 1:07:37.520 --> 1:07:43.320 dollars at CBS Walter after this, this is the second 1:07:43.400 --> 1:07:47.360 part of the incident, and I didn't know what to do. 1:07:47.720 --> 1:07:51.720 You know, Teddy's lying there still. I promised him a 1:07:51.760 --> 1:07:54.280 million dollars. I got him to go against some of 1:07:54.360 --> 1:07:58.000 his what he considered his best friends, and I wasn't 1:07:58.040 --> 1:08:00.120 bringing back the million dollars. And I didn't have a 1:08:00.200 --> 1:08:02.040 million dollars or I would have given it to him. 1:08:02.800 --> 1:08:05.280 And I went to Bob Krasnow's office and I told 1:08:05.360 --> 1:08:07.919 him the story and he said to me, is Teddy 1:08:08.000 --> 1:08:12.920 gonna live? And I said I don't know, and he said, well, 1:08:13.320 --> 1:08:15.040 I can just do me a favor. 1:08:15.880 --> 1:08:16.519 If he dies. 1:08:17.560 --> 1:08:20.479 I need to have a tape in my file of 1:08:20.640 --> 1:08:23.719 him doing something, and I need a script of a movie. 1:08:24.120 --> 1:08:26.800 You don't have to make the movie. Doesn't that be him? 1:08:26.840 --> 1:08:29.680 But I got to have my ass covered, so I 1:08:29.840 --> 1:08:32.560 like the life rights. So I went to Luther and 1:08:32.760 --> 1:08:35.360 I told him and I said, can you make yourself 1:08:35.439 --> 1:08:39.639 sound like Teddy? And get me a tape? And he wrote, 1:08:39.720 --> 1:08:42.519 choose Me, Luthor. He wrote the song and he did 1:08:42.640 --> 1:08:45.519 like twenty generations, removed the noise in the background. But 1:08:45.640 --> 1:08:48.200 we had a tape up choose Me that's sort of 1:08:48.280 --> 1:08:50.960 sated like Teddy. And I went to a filmmaker I 1:08:51.040 --> 1:08:54.200 had worked with, a guy named Alan Rudolph, and I said, 1:08:54.680 --> 1:08:56.320 would you write a script for me? When never going 1:08:56.360 --> 1:08:58.240 to make the movie? But I told him the story 1:08:58.680 --> 1:09:00.280 and he wrote the script. So we got the money 1:09:01.160 --> 1:09:02.720 and I thought everything was pretty good. 1:09:02.800 --> 1:09:04.160 Teddy was rocket. And then now when. 1:09:04.120 --> 1:09:06.439 Rudolf called me up about a year later, he said, 1:09:06.880 --> 1:09:09.000 now I need a favor and I said, what's that? 1:09:09.040 --> 1:09:10.719 And he said, I want to make the movie. 1:09:19.000 --> 1:09:19.439 So I would. 1:09:19.600 --> 1:09:24.160 I wouldn't sold my soul to Chris Blackwell, who would 1:09:24.200 --> 1:09:29.360 always who had always wanted to meet a uh start 1:09:29.400 --> 1:09:31.479 a film company for a partner with me, because I 1:09:31.600 --> 1:09:33.479 was I had won the con Film Festival. I was 1:09:33.680 --> 1:09:37.080 doing pretty good, and but I knew that he had 1:09:37.120 --> 1:09:40.400 a bad reputation as as you know, a lot of 1:09:40.439 --> 1:09:42.840 people who had been with him had been burned. And 1:09:44.120 --> 1:09:47.599 but I said, listen, I know you're sort of devilish, 1:09:47.640 --> 1:09:48.760 but I will sell my soul to you. 1:09:50.240 --> 1:09:54.400 I'm always honest against my greater and and he. 1:09:54.400 --> 1:09:55.960 Said, I know people talk about it. And I said, 1:09:56.000 --> 1:09:58.519 but I need a million dollars to make this movie. 1:09:59.080 --> 1:10:00.760 I know you have a rec good company, but you 1:10:00.840 --> 1:10:03.680 can't get the soundtrack. But I'll make it up to 1:10:03.760 --> 1:10:07.160 you somehow, and I'll partner with him, will do great. 1:10:07.200 --> 1:10:09.720 And I thought that I owned the live films and 1:10:09.920 --> 1:10:12.960 Choose Me was the first movie Electric got the soundtrack 1:10:13.000 --> 1:10:13.720 with Teddy. 1:10:15.280 --> 1:10:19.720 And wow, here we are, so wow, I'm noticing that, 1:10:20.000 --> 1:10:24.479 like you're rolling alone in the situation. Yeah, but I 1:10:24.760 --> 1:10:30.560 know the business was dangerous in the seventies, and I 1:10:30.600 --> 1:10:33.280 mean the sixties, seventies and eighties because there was mod run. 1:10:34.520 --> 1:10:39.439 I mean, how did you get out unscathed? I don't know. 1:10:39.439 --> 1:10:42.960 If I am ut scathing, what is your most alive? 1:10:43.280 --> 1:10:45.439 I would say my scariest What was your most Like 1:10:45.560 --> 1:10:50.400 you're scathing, I would say my scariest moment. And I'll 1:10:50.479 --> 1:10:52.720 leave the names of the people out. But my only 1:10:52.880 --> 1:10:57.480 real brush, the Black Promoters Association never really. 1:10:57.280 --> 1:10:58.800 Came after me Hardy. 1:10:58.840 --> 1:11:00.599 It was never a moment where I I'm not going 1:11:00.640 --> 1:11:03.080 to live anymore. I had one second of that. One 1:11:03.120 --> 1:11:04.920 guy put a gun to my head, but I knew 1:11:04.960 --> 1:11:06.840 he wasn't going to use it. I just knew he 1:11:07.000 --> 1:11:09.080 was too high profile. He wasn't going to shoot me. 1:11:09.360 --> 1:11:10.439 So I wasn't even scared. 1:11:10.439 --> 1:11:11.599 It was just like quite cool. 1:11:11.720 --> 1:11:15.120 Yeah, But then I was. This is years later. I 1:11:15.240 --> 1:11:17.639 was in my apartment in New York. It was when 1:11:17.680 --> 1:11:19.880 Teddy had his accident. I moved to New York for 1:11:20.200 --> 1:11:22.400 two years, and I went down to Philly every week 1:11:22.479 --> 1:11:26.320 to see him. And I had taken Bob Ethern, who 1:11:26.320 --> 1:11:29.400 produced Alice's, his apartment in New York. He let me 1:11:29.520 --> 1:11:32.160 use for two years, and there was a little phone 1:11:32.200 --> 1:11:33.880 on the side of the bed, a red phone that 1:11:34.120 --> 1:11:36.640 never rang. I didn't know the number. I have no 1:11:36.720 --> 1:11:38.680 idea what he used it for, don't want to know. 1:11:39.600 --> 1:11:46.160 And one day it rang and Hello, shep Gordon. Yeah, 1:11:47.840 --> 1:11:50.800 meet me at the corner of this really heavy voice. 1:11:51.640 --> 1:11:54.559 You need to meet me at the corner, Okay, hang 1:11:54.680 --> 1:11:58.280 up the phone, I'll go call the next day, really heavy, 1:11:58.760 --> 1:12:03.479 like heavy, and that I hired two x cops to 1:12:03.600 --> 1:12:06.240 be with me twenty four hours a day. You know, 1:12:06.400 --> 1:12:07.519 how did you get this number? 1:12:07.600 --> 1:12:08.320 A how did you know? 1:12:08.400 --> 1:12:11.800 I was answering, he knew where my office was, and 1:12:11.920 --> 1:12:15.720 he had that voice? Was this was serious Italian kind 1:12:15.760 --> 1:12:18.000 of you know, a soprano's voice. 1:12:18.280 --> 1:12:18.400 Right. 1:12:19.160 --> 1:12:23.200 And the next day I get a phone call from 1:12:23.240 --> 1:12:25.960 a guy that I had met a few times who 1:12:26.320 --> 1:12:30.600 everyone had told me was connected, mafia connected, and he 1:12:30.680 --> 1:12:32.120 calls me up. I guess I could say his name 1:12:32.120 --> 1:12:34.800 because I think he's dead. Tommy Fastola, who ended up 1:12:34.840 --> 1:12:37.960 going to jail for life for beating up a record 1:12:38.000 --> 1:12:38.559 company guy. 1:12:39.240 --> 1:12:43.679 And he says, hey, ship bet you doing great, Tommy. 1:12:44.560 --> 1:12:46.759 How'd you get my number? He said, oh, we got friends. 1:12:46.800 --> 1:12:49.160 We got friends. And he called on the same phone. 1:12:49.080 --> 1:12:52.000 Right right right, and he says, you know how lucky 1:12:52.080 --> 1:12:54.360 you are? And I said, what do you mean, Tommy? 1:12:54.360 --> 1:12:58.400 He says, so, I'm having breakfast this morning with the guys. Now, 1:12:58.479 --> 1:13:00.360 one of the guys says I got to leave early, 1:13:00.560 --> 1:13:02.599 and I says to him, boy, do you gotta leave early? 1:13:03.240 --> 1:13:05.519 I gotta go bump this guy off. Shep gordon up 1:13:05.600 --> 1:13:11.760 then wow, and he said, you can't bump the guy off. 1:13:11.840 --> 1:13:12.360 He's with me. 1:13:13.320 --> 1:13:15.599 And I'm like now thinking to myself, which is worse, 1:13:15.640 --> 1:13:16.559 getting bumped off of. 1:13:16.640 --> 1:13:17.280 Being with him. 1:13:17.400 --> 1:13:18.439 Yeah, right. 1:13:19.960 --> 1:13:21.360 Exactly, he's with me. 1:13:21.479 --> 1:13:24.559 You can't do that, And he says, well, the other 1:13:24.600 --> 1:13:26.439 guy's sad too, So I can tell the story, he said, 1:13:27.040 --> 1:13:29.479 So you tell you what, kid, meet me at Moish's office. 1:13:29.520 --> 1:13:32.280 This afternoon at two, Mois was Marris leaving. 1:13:32.720 --> 1:13:32.920 Ah. 1:13:35.479 --> 1:13:37.400 So I go up to Marris Levy's office, who I'd 1:13:37.400 --> 1:13:41.880 never met before with Tommy. He tells the story and Morris. 1:13:41.560 --> 1:13:44.080 Says, you're a lucky kid to have Tommy on your side. 1:13:44.520 --> 1:13:46.160 You know that. I said, yeah, I said, but you 1:13:46.200 --> 1:13:50.240 know you should do something for him. What should I 1:13:50.280 --> 1:13:50.680 do for him? 1:13:50.680 --> 1:13:53.800 He said, you know that new Blondie record that's coming out. 1:13:54.080 --> 1:13:58.400 I own these stores strawberries, get me fifty thousand clean 1:13:58.520 --> 1:14:03.240 copies meant that they weren't punched as free goods so 1:14:03.360 --> 1:14:03.920 they could sell. 1:14:04.680 --> 1:14:04.920 Wow. 1:14:05.120 --> 1:14:08.679 And I said, Mars, I know, I'm not the record company, 1:14:08.680 --> 1:14:12.160 I really, but we settled at ten thousand copies, which 1:14:12.240 --> 1:14:13.960 I bought from the record company. 1:14:14.040 --> 1:14:16.400 It costs it gave him that it was like. 1:14:19.160 --> 1:14:22.360 And luckily a few months later, Tommy Vastolo got caught 1:14:23.240 --> 1:14:27.720 on camera in Philadelphia beating up a record store guy. 1:14:27.760 --> 1:14:30.960 Who hadn't paid his bill to boish with a baseball 1:14:31.040 --> 1:14:33.919 bat and went to jail for the rest of his life. 1:14:34.600 --> 1:14:35.280 Still in jail. 1:14:35.520 --> 1:14:37.559 I think he died in jail. He may be around 1:14:37.600 --> 1:14:38.880 if he will probably come after me. 1:14:38.960 --> 1:14:42.360 But is that when you became a Buddhist. 1:14:42.800 --> 1:14:48.120 Yeah, but that was my only real you know, there's 1:14:48.160 --> 1:14:50.519 so much talk. You see vinyls, you see all this stuff. 1:14:51.280 --> 1:14:54.680 It never really was. You know, there were thugs, but 1:14:54.760 --> 1:14:56.280 it wasn't this organized. 1:14:56.439 --> 1:14:56.600 You know. 1:14:57.000 --> 1:14:59.400 That was my only brush in forty years of doing 1:14:59.439 --> 1:15:02.920 it of like real organized crime stuff. 1:15:03.080 --> 1:15:06.240 So did you Did you have personal relationships with all 1:15:06.240 --> 1:15:09.080 of your clients because I mean no, I mean at 1:15:09.200 --> 1:15:12.000 some point you had like forty at the same time, right, No. 1:15:12.160 --> 1:15:14.080 I So what about like Rick. 1:15:14.000 --> 1:15:16.600 James, Rick James, I had a very personal relationship with 1:15:16.720 --> 1:15:25.679 I would say, Rick Teddy, Alice Raquel to some extent. 1:15:27.120 --> 1:15:29.240 Those were really my closest. There was some that I 1:15:29.320 --> 1:15:32.679 had no and some of the African artists Johnny Clegig 1:15:33.720 --> 1:15:36.320 King Sonny A. Day was the most elegant human being 1:15:36.360 --> 1:15:39.400 I've ever been around in my life. Magic Fashik was 1:15:39.720 --> 1:15:43.920 just a joy. So but there were many I didn't luthor. 1:15:43.960 --> 1:15:46.200 I did not have a close relationship. 1:15:45.640 --> 1:15:47.720 With really at all, but you were with him at 1:15:47.800 --> 1:15:48.720 all times though I. 1:15:48.800 --> 1:15:51.800 Was with him twenty years, so we lived ten blocks 1:15:51.800 --> 1:15:53.320 from each other. He never was at my house. 1:15:53.840 --> 1:15:57.040 Wow, really yeah? I mean, did you have a liaison like. 1:15:58.680 --> 1:15:59.400 I had a liaison? 1:15:59.479 --> 1:16:02.479 For every act I used to tell acts, I'd say, 1:16:02.520 --> 1:16:06.439 you know, the biggest waste of my time is talking 1:16:06.520 --> 1:16:08.920 to you on the phone about you need four Coca colas. 1:16:09.560 --> 1:16:13.519 You know, then I'm not doing my job. So I 1:16:13.680 --> 1:16:17.080 charged twenty percent. If you don't need me to be 1:16:17.200 --> 1:16:19.240 in your face all the time, I will get someone 1:16:19.520 --> 1:16:21.200 that you can beat up whenever you want to beat 1:16:21.240 --> 1:16:25.479 them up, and you'll only charge of fifteen percent. And 1:16:26.600 --> 1:16:28.080 everybody went for fifteen percent. 1:16:28.479 --> 1:16:30.320 I never had anybody say no, I want you for 1:16:30.439 --> 1:16:32.360 twenty but it was true. 1:16:32.439 --> 1:16:36.240 My job is getting ahead of the artist but a 1:16:36.360 --> 1:16:38.960 year or two and telling them where to go. And 1:16:39.040 --> 1:16:42.200 if I'm spending my time talking about like I didn't 1:16:42.200 --> 1:16:44.360 have the right light in my dressing room last night. 1:16:44.479 --> 1:16:46.639 You know, I like pink lights, not they had. 1:16:46.520 --> 1:16:48.599 A blue light. Could you believe they had a blue light? 1:16:49.680 --> 1:16:56.280 Well? I can imagine that, especially after the massive success 1:16:56.520 --> 1:17:05.000 of Street Songs, m V dawning of MTV that Rick 1:17:05.160 --> 1:17:12.240 James really wanted to be ushered into, you know, the eighties, 1:17:12.600 --> 1:17:16.360 the same way that Michael and Prince got their due. 1:17:17.040 --> 1:17:22.160 So I mean I had what was that whole scenario, Like, 1:17:22.240 --> 1:17:24.200 I mean, was there a pressure on you like to 1:17:24.680 --> 1:17:25.559 get me on MTV? 1:17:25.680 --> 1:17:28.479 And I mean enough from Rick. But we were doing 1:17:28.560 --> 1:17:31.280 so good that I didn't. He didn't need to. We 1:17:31.400 --> 1:17:32.439 had It was a great career. 1:17:32.680 --> 1:17:35.280 Many complained about it a lot, though, you know, on MTV. 1:17:35.479 --> 1:17:35.880 Never to me. 1:17:35.960 --> 1:17:38.840 I never never really got it from but he may 1:17:38.920 --> 1:17:40.800 have to the guy who worked for me, he may have, 1:17:42.439 --> 1:17:45.080 but he made he was We were headlined those Budweiser 1:17:45.160 --> 1:17:47.839 festivals and it was good times. 1:17:47.880 --> 1:17:48.080 Boy. 1:17:48.600 --> 1:17:50.920 He was a great guy. I really loved, very smart man. 1:17:51.720 --> 1:17:55.120 Yeah, my uh my Rick James story was at the 1:17:55.240 --> 1:18:00.160 House of Blues, uh Me, Common and Rossario Dawson went 1:18:00.240 --> 1:18:02.920 to go see Rick and or it was really the 1:18:03.000 --> 1:18:05.559 Tina Marie Show, but Rick just happened to be there 1:18:06.120 --> 1:18:08.280 and they got out and fire and desire and everything. 1:18:08.320 --> 1:18:11.400 It was like nineteen ninety nine. Anyway, So we're up 1:18:12.360 --> 1:18:15.920 backstage and Rick comes in with Leon Isaac Kennedy. 1:18:18.479 --> 1:18:21.240 So the thing is was married for like a beautiful girl. 1:18:23.080 --> 1:18:26.680 Have you ever seen that sexty? Well, here we go, 1:18:27.720 --> 1:18:30.080 this is where I'm leading to. This is what I'm 1:18:30.120 --> 1:18:30.479 leading to. 1:18:31.160 --> 1:18:31.280 Now. 1:18:31.439 --> 1:18:34.959 Rick saw me. Rick saw me walking with Rosario. 1:18:35.160 --> 1:18:35.280 Right. 1:18:36.240 --> 1:18:38.320 But after a while, like me and Tina started talking 1:18:38.360 --> 1:18:41.320 a lot about like I'm kicking out whatever. So at 1:18:41.400 --> 1:18:44.800 some point Rick comes up to me and I was like, 1:18:45.760 --> 1:18:48.040 he gives me this firm handshake, and I was like, yo, man, 1:18:48.160 --> 1:18:51.200 like I can't even believe you, like know who I am. 1:18:51.360 --> 1:18:54.280 He's like, of course I know you are. Motherfucker you 1:18:54.360 --> 1:18:57.280 want to he was the one of the funkiest motherfuckers 1:18:57.360 --> 1:19:01.920 walking on earth right now. And he said, but I 1:19:01.960 --> 1:19:04.679 should tell you something now. At this point, he points 1:19:04.720 --> 1:19:09.200 out my peripheral and leon is over there wrapping to Rosario. Now, 1:19:09.280 --> 1:19:11.120 I mean we were cool, like she wasn't my dater 1:19:11.200 --> 1:19:14.040 or anything. But Rick don't know that, he says, He 1:19:14.120 --> 1:19:18.240 points Leon. He says, you know that motherfucker over there. 1:19:19.040 --> 1:19:22.240 I said, that's how leon Isa sac Kennedy, right. He said, yeah, 1:19:23.040 --> 1:19:25.960 He's like, is that your lady? And you know I 1:19:26.040 --> 1:19:28.920 was I was, well, you know, we're cool, but you 1:19:29.000 --> 1:19:32.439 know he's if you know what that motherfucker's hands is. Man, 1:19:32.520 --> 1:19:33.720 I go get your lady right now. 1:19:38.800 --> 1:19:39.160 Me me. 1:19:40.800 --> 1:19:49.360 Nice of music, guys, get back. I bumped into Dave Chappelle, 1:19:49.840 --> 1:19:53.320 uh recently, and I told we were interviewing you, and 1:19:53.640 --> 1:19:56.679 you know, I reminded him that you had managed Rick James. 1:19:57.760 --> 1:20:00.800 And I was there the day that we actually shot 1:20:01.880 --> 1:20:06.160 Rick's porson of the interview and uh, he was actually 1:20:06.240 --> 1:20:09.200 I think the first of the second person that we 1:20:09.320 --> 1:20:13.320 showed the final sketch to, and uh, you know he 1:20:13.439 --> 1:20:16.040 loved it. He yeah, he loved it. We got no 1:20:16.120 --> 1:20:16.880 complaints from him. 1:20:16.960 --> 1:20:20.000 Rick was the way I the way I started with Rick. 1:20:20.040 --> 1:20:22.680 I was in my office one day and this my 1:20:22.880 --> 1:20:28.200 door gets thrown open and just thrown open, like worked 1:20:28.200 --> 1:20:29.960 his way right through the reception that just came to 1:20:30.000 --> 1:20:33.280 the thing. He goes, you, motherfucker you shep Gordon, motherfucker. 1:20:33.400 --> 1:20:36.240 I know more about you than you know about you, really, 1:20:36.400 --> 1:20:38.360 And I said, what who are you? And he said, 1:20:38.520 --> 1:20:41.800 motherfucker Rick James, I'm from Buffalo, New York. You went 1:20:41.840 --> 1:20:43.000 to school in Buffalo, New. 1:20:43.000 --> 1:20:44.639 York, you lived on Main Street. 1:20:44.920 --> 1:20:46.160 You ate it the you did? 1:20:46.320 --> 1:20:48.600 He like had it down I said, what do you do? 1:20:48.720 --> 1:20:50.599 And he said, He's good, what do I do? I'm 1:20:50.640 --> 1:20:54.320 the fucking baddest motherfucker you ever came across in your 1:20:54.479 --> 1:20:55.320 fucking life. 1:20:55.720 --> 1:20:58.280 What do you mean? Why do I do? Wow? 1:20:58.640 --> 1:21:01.760 And he and he had a hit record ONWN. So 1:21:01.920 --> 1:21:04.280 you and I had already been out, and yeah, you 1:21:04.360 --> 1:21:05.040 and I was out. 1:21:05.320 --> 1:21:05.680 He had to. 1:21:05.920 --> 1:21:09.360 He had just was just about to sign the Mary 1:21:09.479 --> 1:21:13.240 Jane girls to Barry, and he said, motherfucker, I got 1:21:13.280 --> 1:21:15.240 these girls that are gonna be even bigger than me, 1:21:15.520 --> 1:21:16.840 and you're going to do their deal. 1:21:16.880 --> 1:21:17.600 I'm throwing you in. 1:21:17.640 --> 1:21:20.040 The pit with Berry. And that was my first meeting. 1:21:20.080 --> 1:21:22.960 I went to the penthouse on sunset and Barry was 1:21:23.040 --> 1:21:27.360 playing pool and really yeah and and uh, rickad, this 1:21:27.439 --> 1:21:29.600 is the motherfucker's gonna squeeze you for more money you 1:21:29.720 --> 1:21:30.599 ever given anybody. 1:21:35.520 --> 1:21:37.920 So what was that light with Barry? We were talking. 1:21:41.520 --> 1:21:45.200 I never really got to know him. He was very 1:21:46.400 --> 1:21:49.600 He dismissed me, right, I mean he really dismissed me. 1:21:50.120 --> 1:21:50.720 I was that. 1:21:51.080 --> 1:21:52.080 He is very dismissive. 1:21:52.320 --> 1:21:53.120 Yeah, he dismissed me. 1:21:53.160 --> 1:21:56.160 To say, but we held out and he came around 1:21:56.920 --> 1:21:59.320 and we made the deal, and uh, he paid him. 1:22:00.560 --> 1:22:05.200 He was Barry was my impression, and I didn't know 1:22:05.320 --> 1:22:08.080 him well, and I can't say this with one hundred 1:22:08.080 --> 1:22:12.280 percent certainly, but he would fuck you to your faiths, 1:22:12.640 --> 1:22:13.320 not to your back. 1:22:14.160 --> 1:22:17.000 He cut a really hard deal. You got to respect 1:22:17.000 --> 1:22:18.919 that and you got to respect it. And he delivered 1:22:19.000 --> 1:22:21.280 the goods. He got you to hit records. He did 1:22:21.360 --> 1:22:22.160 the stuff he had to do. 1:22:22.680 --> 1:22:24.599 But it was all about Barry and he wasn't sharing, 1:22:25.080 --> 1:22:27.200 and he was vocal about I can deal with anybody 1:22:27.240 --> 1:22:29.680 if they're honest, they tell you what the game is. 1:22:29.720 --> 1:22:32.519 You want to get delt in, you know, get you 1:22:32.640 --> 1:22:33.200 have a choice. 1:22:33.400 --> 1:22:37.760 Did he at least respect that Rick Rick's celebrity and 1:22:39.439 --> 1:22:41.879 his status at the time was going to carry Motown 1:22:43.120 --> 1:22:43.920 to the eighties? 1:22:44.240 --> 1:22:44.599 I don't. 1:22:44.800 --> 1:22:47.479 I mean, with the exception of and Stevie. Yeah, that 1:22:47.680 --> 1:22:47.840 was it. 1:22:48.040 --> 1:22:51.519 Yeah, I don't know. I really don't know. I Rick 1:22:51.680 --> 1:22:55.120 ended up dealing more with him than I did. Really. 1:22:55.200 --> 1:22:58.360 Yeah, Rick had a good relationship with him. I was 1:22:58.400 --> 1:22:59.920 the white kid on the block who was trying to 1:23:00.040 --> 1:23:03.080 steal from him, and so I let Rick. I would 1:23:03.400 --> 1:23:05.439 I would wind Rick up and send him in rather 1:23:05.520 --> 1:23:07.760 than go in myself. I say, you know, here's what 1:23:07.880 --> 1:23:09.920 we got to get and here's what I need, and 1:23:10.680 --> 1:23:12.040 the Mary Jane girls had to hit. 1:23:12.120 --> 1:23:13.160 The first record was a hit. 1:23:13.240 --> 1:23:15.240 So yeah, both those records. 1:23:15.320 --> 1:23:16.800 Yeah, so they were real happy with them. 1:23:17.280 --> 1:23:18.960 So you orchestrated both those albums. 1:23:19.120 --> 1:23:20.320 I wouldn't say I orchestrated. 1:23:20.320 --> 1:23:20.880 I made the deal. 1:23:21.880 --> 1:23:24.200 I made the deal for him to allow him to hit, 1:23:24.280 --> 1:23:25.960 but I didn't have any real influence on it. 1:23:26.040 --> 1:23:26.200 Rick. 1:23:26.600 --> 1:23:31.040 Rick was very much in control of his career. He 1:23:31.240 --> 1:23:33.840 was very strong, one of the smartest artists I've ever 1:23:33.880 --> 1:23:34.200 worked with. 1:23:34.439 --> 1:23:40.599 So, with the exception of maybe Freddy Demand, if I'm who. 1:23:40.560 --> 1:23:42.479 By the way, I think is maybe the best manager 1:23:42.640 --> 1:23:44.480 of my in my lifetime. 1:23:44.920 --> 1:23:49.200 Really. Yeah. Well, with the exception of Freddie Demand, I 1:23:49.200 --> 1:23:52.960 don't know where I was the Jackson's and. 1:23:53.000 --> 1:23:57.519 Then he did Michael's launch, a solo launch Madonna. 1:23:57.680 --> 1:24:00.280 Yeah, he had madonna'srom Jump Street right from jumps Street 1:24:00.840 --> 1:24:03.559 and brought back Line over Richard And he would only. 1:24:03.479 --> 1:24:05.680 Do one or two acts at a time, that's all 1:24:05.720 --> 1:24:06.080 he needed. 1:24:06.920 --> 1:24:07.400 But he did. 1:24:07.800 --> 1:24:12.719 He did the job. I mean, he really, My respect 1:24:12.800 --> 1:24:15.760 love for him is unbelievable. I Mean I always when 1:24:15.800 --> 1:24:18.760 people ask me, I always say Freddy Demand was the guy. 1:24:20.320 --> 1:24:24.720 What I was gonna say between Jerry Goldsmith and Freddy Demand, Well, 1:24:25.080 --> 1:24:31.720 let me, I'm I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I gotta try 1:24:31.720 --> 1:24:33.719 and stop. Sorry, I'm sorry. 1:24:34.160 --> 1:24:36.200 Well no, I mean, okay, So who was Jerry gold 1:24:36.680 --> 1:24:43.080 He had wore sly uh the animals? Yeah, er, But 1:24:43.240 --> 1:24:46.880 I'm just saying that a lot of lawsuits a lot. 1:24:48.000 --> 1:24:53.200 However, I'm saying that if I am a black act 1:24:54.040 --> 1:24:59.200 that's looking to crossover, and crossover was definitely on the 1:24:59.360 --> 1:25:02.960 minds of a lot of black acts in the seventies, 1:25:03.000 --> 1:25:05.639 how to break out of the Chitlin circuit and really 1:25:05.840 --> 1:25:09.400 want to generate money for myself. But like staying power, 1:25:10.320 --> 1:25:13.360 I mean, are you are you the are you the 1:25:14.160 --> 1:25:17.839 golden child that will Is it either you or Freddie 1:25:17.840 --> 1:25:20.639 that's the golden child that will take you there? Or yeah? 1:25:20.680 --> 1:25:22.120 I think they were And is it based on the 1:25:22.200 --> 1:25:24.000 relationships you have with radio stations? 1:25:24.080 --> 1:25:26.200 And I think, you know, in a way of thinking, 1:25:27.000 --> 1:25:28.720 I think there were a couple of other guys. 1:25:30.520 --> 1:25:32.280 Trying to think of the guys that did earth Wind 1:25:32.320 --> 1:25:37.400 and Fire, they had found the highway to go down 1:25:37.560 --> 1:25:40.000 to the way they could do stuff like that. There 1:25:40.040 --> 1:25:44.800 were a few people. But you know, also radio was 1:25:44.920 --> 1:25:47.920 hungry for it. They were really hungry for it. It 1:25:48.000 --> 1:25:48.799 wasn't a hardshell. 1:25:50.560 --> 1:25:54.240 It was radio hungry for music. Like now, radio is 1:25:54.280 --> 1:25:57.800 hungry for you to buy the product that they're advertising. 1:25:58.280 --> 1:26:03.240 So it's not music centric more than it is getting 1:26:03.479 --> 1:26:06.200 you know, you to hear the commercials and getting kids 1:26:06.280 --> 1:26:07.920 to hear their parents to hear the commercials to buy 1:26:07.960 --> 1:26:11.240 the product. Like music is almost an afterthought for radio, 1:26:12.120 --> 1:26:14.639 which is why we get the same fifteen songs in rotation. 1:26:15.280 --> 1:26:18.000 But are you saying that there's a point where radio 1:26:18.160 --> 1:26:19.840 was truly interested. 1:26:19.840 --> 1:26:23.640 In I wouldn't say truly interested, because I don't know 1:26:23.680 --> 1:26:27.400 if they're capable of that. FM was but pop am radio, 1:26:27.720 --> 1:26:33.599 but they found that those records worked on their stations. Okay, 1:26:34.560 --> 1:26:37.920 so you you know, the game was always buying your 1:26:37.960 --> 1:26:40.600 way on. But you couldn't just buy your way on. 1:26:41.400 --> 1:26:43.599 You had to see I always thought you could buy 1:26:43.640 --> 1:26:44.000 your way on. 1:26:44.160 --> 1:26:46.320 Oh no, I'll tell you a great Philly story, Gray, 1:26:46.479 --> 1:26:47.000 really funny. 1:26:47.040 --> 1:26:47.679 Everything's happening. 1:26:49.840 --> 1:26:53.719 So I'm a young punk. Alice has a hit record, 1:26:54.760 --> 1:26:58.759 comes time for the second record, and the record company 1:26:58.840 --> 1:27:01.240 is not going to do anything they're just not going 1:27:01.280 --> 1:27:03.120 to he just told you this. No, but you can 1:27:03.200 --> 1:27:04.800 tell you know, you know, by the science and not 1:27:04.880 --> 1:27:08.320 taking any ads out. There's no independence hired for the single. 1:27:09.360 --> 1:27:12.479 That's just you know, the tailtale signs. So I'm not 1:27:12.520 --> 1:27:14.479 gonna let them stop me. So I'm just gonna buy 1:27:14.560 --> 1:27:17.240 my way on. I had some cash on. So the 1:27:17.520 --> 1:27:19.880 most powerful guy at the time in radio was out 1:27:19.920 --> 1:27:26.960 of Philadelphia, Freddie Disappeal. He was probably the most effective guy. 1:27:27.120 --> 1:27:29.160 He was you could pay him and you got a 1:27:29.240 --> 1:27:34.320 hit record. So I went to Freddy and he had 1:27:34.360 --> 1:27:36.080 never heard of me. I got introduced, I think by 1:27:36.640 --> 1:27:39.040 maybe Albert Grossman or somebody on a phone call. There 1:27:39.040 --> 1:27:42.000 were no emails or anything like that. And I told 1:27:42.040 --> 1:27:44.200 him the story and it's Alison, how much is it? 1:27:44.760 --> 1:27:47.840 And in those days they used to charge by parallel one, 1:27:48.000 --> 1:27:51.880 Parallel two, parallel three. Parallel one was a big station, 1:27:52.400 --> 1:27:55.320 so maybe that was a ten thousand dollars by. Parallel 1:27:55.360 --> 1:27:58.200 two was a smaller station, maybe a five thousand dollars by. 1:27:59.680 --> 1:28:02.000 So I wanted to parallel one station. I paid him 1:28:02.040 --> 1:28:05.840 ten thousand, and first week we're twenty seven. 1:28:06.360 --> 1:28:08.680 It's like, oh my god, this is the greatest. We're 1:28:08.720 --> 1:28:10.880 going to you know, we're getting around of the record company. 1:28:12.000 --> 1:28:14.320 And the second week with twenty five, it's moving up 1:28:14.400 --> 1:28:16.280 the charts. This is fantastic. 1:28:17.600 --> 1:28:20.600 Third week it drops off the chart, twenty five to. 1:28:21.040 --> 1:28:24.920 In the record business, once you lose your momentum, no 1:28:25.080 --> 1:28:26.840 other station in the country's going to pick you up 1:28:27.520 --> 1:28:31.759 if you don't. That's so the record was over. Maybe 1:28:31.840 --> 1:28:33.960 a year later I found out what the game was. 1:28:34.439 --> 1:28:39.200 The station only played twenty songs, but he sold thirty slots, 1:28:40.800 --> 1:28:45.599 so of course there were no sales. The record never 1:28:45.680 --> 1:28:54.280 got played. So I paid ten thousand to kill the record, just. 1:28:54.320 --> 1:28:56.320 To be in the bottom to kill it. 1:28:56.439 --> 1:28:56.880 I killed it. 1:29:00.160 --> 1:29:04.320 Lesson learned, Yeah, good learn oh man. Lesson learned. 1:29:05.320 --> 1:29:06.920 There's always a curtain behind the curtain. 1:29:08.479 --> 1:29:12.960 So and then I'm I'm I'm now now I'm putting 1:29:12.960 --> 1:29:17.639 two two together. The fact that you managed Stephanie Mills 1:29:17.680 --> 1:29:22.920 explains her presence on the Teddy Records. Uh. You managing 1:29:23.400 --> 1:29:29.160 the Callaway Brothers and Midnight Star explains their presence on I. 1:29:29.240 --> 1:29:31.640 Want to Be Rich And what a great tour. I 1:29:31.760 --> 1:29:32.840 love that I want to Be Rich? 1:29:33.840 --> 1:29:34.879 That was that your concept? 1:29:34.960 --> 1:29:35.160 Yeah? 1:29:35.439 --> 1:29:44.840 Completely, oh man, I can't. I mean, I completely, but 1:29:44.920 --> 1:29:47.080 the thought was there, you know, it was like, come on, 1:29:47.240 --> 1:29:47.840 let's just say it. 1:29:54.040 --> 1:29:58.960 Wow, and it happened. I got it. I mean, I 1:29:59.080 --> 1:30:02.800 have so many my experience with Luther Vandros. I mean, 1:30:02.880 --> 1:30:06.439 as a person who was immersed in hip hop whatever 1:30:06.520 --> 1:30:10.120 I mean, Luther Vanres was the definition of smooth R 1:30:10.160 --> 1:30:15.360 and B kind of answer, like the complete opposite of 1:30:16.120 --> 1:30:19.479 what hip hop represented. But I mean I still respected it. 1:30:20.920 --> 1:30:26.000 But Luther's live show was like my mom would physically 1:30:26.160 --> 1:30:30.599 describe every moment. And this is from Lisa Fisher, all 1:30:30.960 --> 1:30:37.320 gown of Fontie Thwarton to all these things. So what 1:30:37.560 --> 1:30:41.719 is I mean of Luther at is at his peak, 1:30:41.840 --> 1:30:45.760 at the peak of his powers, which I mean, I 1:30:46.040 --> 1:30:48.679 guess you could say the night is the night NFL lovers, 1:30:48.680 --> 1:30:51.719 it give me the reason? I mean, yeah, the powerful, 1:30:52.240 --> 1:30:55.720 give me the reason. I mean, God, that was so yeah. 1:30:56.320 --> 1:30:58.080 I mean what I at of love was probably my 1:30:58.200 --> 1:31:01.680 personal I mean yeah, as yeah, my personal favorite too. 1:31:02.160 --> 1:31:06.479 So, but I also know that he was notorious for 1:31:06.600 --> 1:31:11.400 being very meticulous and like harder than James Brown, like 1:31:11.560 --> 1:31:15.760 fines and although he was no spot nor wrinkle, where 1:31:15.800 --> 1:31:18.800 does that come from? Like that level of discipline that 1:31:18.880 --> 1:31:19.960 I'm neriable. 1:31:20.240 --> 1:31:22.160 Yeah, I've never seen anything like it. It was it, 1:31:22.520 --> 1:31:24.200 you know, my reputation. 1:31:25.240 --> 1:31:28.519 Most many of the artists hired me because I wrote 1:31:28.640 --> 1:31:29.960 and directed the stage. 1:31:29.640 --> 1:31:33.240 Shows and that was my joy. 1:31:33.320 --> 1:31:35.640 And I was, oh, really yeah so that I didn't know. 1:31:35.800 --> 1:31:37.880 I did the Earth Wind and Fire Pyramid show, I 1:31:37.960 --> 1:31:40.640 did the first Kiss show. I love doing shows and 1:31:40.720 --> 1:31:44.040 doing productions, and I knew how to gets standing ovations 1:31:44.080 --> 1:31:45.599 and that was a lot of my value to most 1:31:45.640 --> 1:31:49.360 of my artists. Luther would would not let me come 1:31:49.680 --> 1:31:52.400 to see him until he had broken the show in 1:31:53.880 --> 1:31:55.639 so I would never allowed to come to the first 1:31:55.680 --> 1:31:59.080 four or five six shows because he wanted to be perfect. 1:31:59.080 --> 1:32:00.640 I'd say to him, you know, of my job is 1:32:00.720 --> 1:32:01.880 to help you make it perfect. 1:32:02.840 --> 1:32:04.640 And he was. 1:32:04.920 --> 1:32:07.799 He was in complete control of every second on that stage, 1:32:08.280 --> 1:32:13.400 every single light, every wardrobe change, and did it as 1:32:13.439 --> 1:32:15.240 good as I mean as good as you could possibly 1:32:15.320 --> 1:32:19.000 do it. Fanatic about it, but and drove a very hardship. 1:32:19.640 --> 1:32:22.439 You know, if someone was a second late, they were toast. 1:32:23.240 --> 1:32:25.040 If they were off on a queue somewhere, if a 1:32:25.120 --> 1:32:28.439 lighting queue went down, that guy was toasted. 1:32:28.479 --> 1:32:28.800 That night. 1:32:28.880 --> 1:32:31.599 He was just you know, brought into the dressing room 1:32:31.640 --> 1:32:35.519 and dressed down. He needed everything absolutely perfect, and he 1:32:35.720 --> 1:32:38.120 was perfect every night, so he could demand that he 1:32:38.240 --> 1:32:40.680 hit his marks every night. He was everything was You 1:32:40.760 --> 1:32:43.559 can almost overlay one show to the other with Luthor. 1:32:43.600 --> 1:32:44.599 You could with the clock. 1:32:44.760 --> 1:32:45.599 Yeah, yeah, wow. 1:32:46.160 --> 1:32:48.840 One question I always had in regards to Luther, and 1:32:49.920 --> 1:32:54.280 you know, it was a lot of talk about yeah 1:32:57.680 --> 1:33:01.439 you know, uh as a kid of the eighties, you 1:33:01.479 --> 1:33:04.360 know my mother, I mean that was the soundtrack to. 1:33:04.400 --> 1:33:08.080 My childhood, and no one cared. You know what I'm saying. 1:33:08.439 --> 1:33:10.920 Nobody cared at all. Yeah, Like, no one cared at all. 1:33:10.960 --> 1:33:13.559 We just wanted to hear him sing. As a manager, 1:33:13.720 --> 1:33:16.200 Was that something that presented a challenge for you or 1:33:16.320 --> 1:33:18.000 was it how did how did you handle? 1:33:18.040 --> 1:33:18.080 That? 1:33:18.200 --> 1:33:20.360 Didn't present a challenge at all? The only the part 1:33:20.439 --> 1:33:24.880 of it that presented a challenge to me wasn't professional, 1:33:25.080 --> 1:33:30.160 was personal. I never felt that he was joyful, and 1:33:30.439 --> 1:33:33.599 I felt that a lot of that lack of joy 1:33:33.800 --> 1:33:36.360 was that he didn't have any relationships in his life. 1:33:36.920 --> 1:33:39.839 He didn't that I know of. There was no male. 1:33:39.760 --> 1:33:43.160 Relationship, there was no female relationship. There were no relationships. 1:33:45.400 --> 1:33:47.559 And that was for me was the hard part because 1:33:47.600 --> 1:33:49.960 I wanted to be happy and enjoy success. 1:33:49.960 --> 1:33:52.880 Even with you, Like was there a guard between you guys? 1:33:52.960 --> 1:33:56.600 Yes, completely, yeah, and strictly business and strictly business. I 1:33:56.680 --> 1:33:58.120 don't even didn't really know who. 1:33:58.080 --> 1:34:02.720 He was, had one can of conversation or never had 1:34:02.760 --> 1:34:05.040 a real conversation. How did he seek you out to 1:34:05.200 --> 1:34:07.080 man or how did you end up managing him? 1:34:08.160 --> 1:34:08.200 He? 1:34:08.600 --> 1:34:08.720 Uh? 1:34:09.880 --> 1:34:12.160 The record company called me up, and he called me up. 1:34:12.240 --> 1:34:13.000 He uh. 1:34:13.600 --> 1:34:18.040 We had a mutual business manager and he loved the 1:34:18.080 --> 1:34:21.360 work I did, and we took a meeting and he did. 1:34:21.640 --> 1:34:24.160 We we joined up, and I had a guy in 1:34:24.200 --> 1:34:27.639 my office that took care of him. And we never 1:34:27.840 --> 1:34:32.000 we had no real relationship at all. We we actually 1:34:32.520 --> 1:34:36.559 he's the only artist that I worked with and had 1:34:36.640 --> 1:34:37.640 no communication with. 1:34:37.760 --> 1:34:37.800 It. 1:34:38.200 --> 1:34:40.320 A point in time came when he wouldn't talk to me, 1:34:40.760 --> 1:34:42.559 and it was about the last three years of our 1:34:42.640 --> 1:34:45.360 relationship that I managed him, and I would send them 1:34:45.400 --> 1:34:47.080 notes and say, listen, you don't have to stay with me, 1:34:48.040 --> 1:34:50.080 and he said, no, no, you're the right guy. 1:34:50.680 --> 1:34:54.000 I just don't want to talk. You know. 1:34:54.080 --> 1:34:57.120 He was a he was a different kind of a guy. 1:34:57.880 --> 1:35:03.840 Luther I tended well in light of the unfortunate events 1:35:03.920 --> 1:35:10.160 that have happened in twenty sixteen, I'm seeing a common 1:35:10.240 --> 1:35:16.639 denominator with well one particular icon that for this episode 1:35:16.760 --> 1:35:22.040 remain nameless, who's notoriously very secret, secretive, and very guarded. 1:35:24.120 --> 1:35:26.280 And I guess in light of his demise, the things 1:35:26.320 --> 1:35:30.639 that we found out about his life and what caused 1:35:30.680 --> 1:35:34.599 his exit, you know, that's a secret, that's you know. Now, 1:35:34.680 --> 1:35:37.680 I get why everything was so secretive, and you know 1:35:37.720 --> 1:35:41.080 when you're hiding something. So maybe I'm just thinking that 1:35:41.280 --> 1:35:44.360 he wasn't ready to be vulnerable in front. 1:35:44.160 --> 1:35:48.040 Of possible But you even with who you're mentioning, I 1:35:48.080 --> 1:35:50.200 feel like we knew more about his past with Luther. 1:35:50.680 --> 1:35:52.800 I don't feel like we know a lot about who 1:35:52.880 --> 1:35:53.400 Luther was. 1:35:53.840 --> 1:35:56.680 I think he really knew who he was. Wow, you know, 1:35:56.760 --> 1:36:01.000 I think he'd lived for his career. He lived for 1:36:01.080 --> 1:36:03.439 that moment on stage. That's when he that's when he 1:36:03.520 --> 1:36:06.320 knew what to do. And I think, you know, you 1:36:06.360 --> 1:36:08.639 can see the issues with the weight going up and down, 1:36:08.760 --> 1:36:11.840 how it translates, and you know, you just see certain things. 1:36:13.160 --> 1:36:16.240 But he was a great artist and I'm honored that 1:36:16.320 --> 1:36:17.040 I worked with him. 1:36:17.600 --> 1:36:20.200 There's one thing that a lot of the public doesn't 1:36:20.280 --> 1:36:27.240 know you're responsible for, or I guess by accident you're 1:36:27.280 --> 1:36:32.400 responsible for Deborah, Harry and Christine meeting fat by Freddie. 1:36:32.160 --> 1:36:33.519 Well, yeah, I was sort of part of the team. 1:36:33.520 --> 1:36:34.760 I wouldn't say responsible, but. 1:36:34.840 --> 1:36:35.240 Part of it. 1:36:35.520 --> 1:36:41.320 We were searching for We were searching for a new single. 1:36:41.840 --> 1:36:45.920 What do we do for a new single? And they 1:36:45.960 --> 1:36:50.160 were very culturally significant, they were they were a real 1:36:50.280 --> 1:36:53.439 product of the times. So we were looking for something 1:36:53.520 --> 1:36:56.960 to hang our hat on that was more significant than 1:36:57.160 --> 1:37:01.599 just a song. And we had heard about this thing 1:37:01.640 --> 1:37:06.280 that was going on up in Harlem, cardboard boxes on 1:37:06.360 --> 1:37:11.280 the floor, beat boxes, guys dancing, and we said, let's 1:37:11.280 --> 1:37:12.880 go take a look, let's see what this is all about. 1:37:12.960 --> 1:37:14.200 We got a guy to take us up and went 1:37:14.280 --> 1:37:19.640 up by train and when we just that it was 1:37:19.680 --> 1:37:23.200 that casual, there's no concern. Was Chris, Debbie, myself on 1:37:23.320 --> 1:37:26.360 the train subway. They liked the subway. They were subway 1:37:26.439 --> 1:37:29.720 kind of people. And we got off the station and 1:37:29.800 --> 1:37:34.840 there was a guy spray painting the wall and it 1:37:35.000 --> 1:37:37.000 was really early in the game and it was really cool, 1:37:37.040 --> 1:37:38.599 and Devid said, wow, is that cool? 1:37:39.040 --> 1:37:41.519 So we started to walk over to him to talk 1:37:41.600 --> 1:37:43.160 to him, and he started to. 1:37:43.680 --> 1:37:46.600 Not run, but move away from us really fast, and 1:37:46.760 --> 1:37:48.760 he got on the next train when it came. So 1:37:48.880 --> 1:37:51.360 we jumped on the trade and that we're all trapped 1:37:51.360 --> 1:37:53.479 on the trade and it was Fab five Freddy and 1:37:53.680 --> 1:37:55.439 he then we you know, we said when I copps, 1:37:55.479 --> 1:37:58.840 when I busted you, it's all good. And he took 1:37:58.920 --> 1:38:02.360 us back to see the dancing and then he he 1:38:02.479 --> 1:38:04.040 was your tour guy. Who was the tour guy and 1:38:04.080 --> 1:38:06.519 then he sort of you know, if you remember the video, 1:38:06.600 --> 1:38:10.000 he's in the background the whole pig, you know, Fab 1:38:10.080 --> 1:38:11.559 five Freddy dude. 1:38:11.680 --> 1:38:15.880 Yeah, that's yeah, that's that's amazing. I mean, there was 1:38:16.000 --> 1:38:18.000 a landmark movement. It was Eric. 1:38:18.280 --> 1:38:22.000 Eric thorn Grin was the guy who took us up there. 1:38:22.280 --> 1:38:27.080 He was the engineer on Grand Master Flash's record, and 1:38:27.320 --> 1:38:30.320 he was he was the one we went to and 1:38:30.400 --> 1:38:31.679 then he took us to Harlem. 1:38:32.479 --> 1:38:33.120 That's amazing. 1:38:33.840 --> 1:38:36.120 So and I think he engineered that record. Maybe he 1:38:36.200 --> 1:38:39.000 may have. I'm not sure the Chapman produced it, but 1:38:39.160 --> 1:38:39.600 Eric may have. 1:38:39.880 --> 1:38:44.080 Makes sense. And uh, well, later that year, also when 1:38:44.160 --> 1:38:49.400 Blondie hosted Saturday Night Live, they insisted that the four 1:38:49.479 --> 1:38:54.400 plus one be the musical guest. Oh really that was 1:38:54.479 --> 1:38:54.840 a fight? 1:38:56.120 --> 1:39:00.000 How so nobody really no one who nobody ever heard? 1:39:03.520 --> 1:39:07.639 No but that that to me, that was an amazing moment, 1:39:07.720 --> 1:39:10.880 Like I remember that doing the first one of of 1:39:11.840 --> 1:39:12.200 seeing that. 1:39:12.680 --> 1:39:14.600 Did you ever think at any point in timeship of 1:39:15.000 --> 1:39:17.839 managing hip hop artists or was that never wanted. 1:39:17.640 --> 1:39:22.439 To never never appealed to me? I didn't. 1:39:22.560 --> 1:39:27.680 Like I started to see the thug element come into 1:39:27.760 --> 1:39:34.040 the music business. The backstage rhythm changed completely, the attitude 1:39:34.080 --> 1:39:38.200 of the artists, popsy started to happen. Never had to 1:39:38.280 --> 1:39:39.519 deal with Popsy's before then. 1:39:39.760 --> 1:39:43.880 Jesus Christ, Wait you say that I didn't know that. 1:39:44.479 --> 1:39:49.240 You started Carlos and Charlie's, Like these are the things 1:39:49.280 --> 1:39:52.280 you learned, Like I'm Cassley mentioned like Carlos and Charlie's 1:39:52.400 --> 1:39:55.200 was like you go to Hollywood Spot okay, and He's like, 1:39:55.240 --> 1:39:58.439 oh I co that, And I was like, I only 1:39:58.560 --> 1:40:01.679 know of it because of Eddie Murphy. Oh my god. 1:40:01.920 --> 1:40:05.759 Every Eddie Murphy's story ever heard, am Prince story starts 1:40:05.800 --> 1:40:07.760 with Carlos and Charlie's. Like even even that. 1:40:07.880 --> 1:40:11.799 Those Eddie Murphy's story at Carlos and Charlie. 1:40:11.960 --> 1:40:12.160 Yeah. 1:40:13.640 --> 1:40:17.400 Again it was there were posse's didn't really exist. The 1:40:17.479 --> 1:40:21.280 first posse that I saw with my eyes was Thomas 1:40:21.360 --> 1:40:24.680 Hearns came to the club with a posse and you know, 1:40:24.760 --> 1:40:26.479 I don't think they would call posse, but he had 1:40:26.520 --> 1:40:29.040 like six guys with them who hanger on. Yeah, and 1:40:29.160 --> 1:40:34.000 they moved like a wave, you know. So Eddie Murphy 1:40:34.080 --> 1:40:37.000 had a posse and he comes one night into the clinic. 1:40:37.080 --> 1:40:38.600 Came out almost every night to the club, but he 1:40:38.640 --> 1:40:42.000 comes in this one night and his club was very empty, 1:40:42.000 --> 1:40:43.960 and there's a little white kid on the dance floor 1:40:44.000 --> 1:40:45.880 with his girl and the posse comes through like this 1:40:46.960 --> 1:40:49.040 and hits the guy and sort of breaks his nose. 1:40:49.880 --> 1:40:51.760 And there's nobody in the club and there's nothing going on, 1:40:52.160 --> 1:40:56.120 and he starts giving them ship with its nose bleeding. 1:40:56.200 --> 1:40:57.679 It's coming down. They call I was down and says 1:40:57.680 --> 1:41:00.560 having dinner. They called me upstairs. And now for the 1:41:00.680 --> 1:41:05.599 next thirty minutes there's this ridiculous escapade of Eddie Murphy 1:41:06.160 --> 1:41:08.120 trying to get to this kid to beat him up 1:41:08.120 --> 1:41:10.960 because he's talking disrespectfully to his people. 1:41:12.040 --> 1:41:16.000 My guards are around him keeping him away from getting hurt. 1:41:16.640 --> 1:41:18.600 And it's just really stupid. And I go over to 1:41:18.680 --> 1:41:20.280 Eddie and I said, I didn't know him well, but 1:41:20.320 --> 1:41:22.800 I said, listen, man, you won the game. You're rich, 1:41:23.680 --> 1:41:26.439 like you want it. You don't have to beat the kids. 1:41:26.720 --> 1:41:28.559 Look at his nose. He's like, you know, weighs one 1:41:28.600 --> 1:41:31.160 hundred pounds. You really don't have to do this. You 1:41:31.280 --> 1:41:34.040 want just calm down. And he wouldn't let go. 1:41:34.320 --> 1:41:36.840 So I called the police. I had a sergeant and 1:41:37.000 --> 1:41:40.360 we got him arrested and he went to jail. And 1:41:42.400 --> 1:41:44.599 it's about five thirty in the morning. My phone rings 1:41:44.640 --> 1:41:46.439 at my house and it's the guy named Don Simpson 1:41:47.520 --> 1:41:49.799 and he says, Chep, you're still on Carlos and Charlie's 1:41:49.800 --> 1:41:51.120 And I said yeah, I said, you got to help me. 1:41:51.760 --> 1:41:54.639 I'm starting a movie this morning and my lead actor, 1:41:54.840 --> 1:41:56.000 Eddie Murphy is in jail. 1:41:56.120 --> 1:41:58.880 A guess of the movie was Beverly Hills Cop. 1:42:00.360 --> 1:42:02.080 So this is this is the best fallt of the story. 1:42:02.160 --> 1:42:04.040 So I call up the sergeant and I say, I'm 1:42:04.080 --> 1:42:06.000 really sorry. We got to get him out of jail. 1:42:06.479 --> 1:42:08.400 Now you got to get the charges drop. I'm not 1:42:08.400 --> 1:42:10.040 going to charge it. And you know, no one's gonna 1:42:10.080 --> 1:42:12.800 I got to kick. So he goes down to the 1:42:12.880 --> 1:42:14.800 jail and he calls me up. He says, okay, the 1:42:15.000 --> 1:42:18.760 motherfucker won't leave the cell. We said, you're you're out 1:42:18.800 --> 1:42:20.280 of here, and he said, if you want me out. 1:42:20.120 --> 1:42:21.240 Of here, then I'm staying here. 1:42:25.760 --> 1:42:28.799 He just had the last words. 1:42:35.240 --> 1:42:37.519 I always wondered, did hip hop come around and bite 1:42:37.520 --> 1:42:39.760 you a little bit personally? Because we found out in 1:42:39.840 --> 1:42:44.920 the documentary Superminch that you ended up adopting, uh two 1:42:45.160 --> 1:42:49.280 of your ex girlfriend's branches, four of your experman's grandbabies, 1:42:49.640 --> 1:42:51.880 and they're have a certain age being raised in the 1:42:51.960 --> 1:42:54.120 eighties and nineties and stuff. So I just wonder, as 1:42:54.120 --> 1:42:54.720 something boy, I. 1:42:54.680 --> 1:42:56.040 Can remember, there was a great moment. 1:42:56.120 --> 1:42:59.519 It's funny you're bringing that up because it's exactly there 1:42:59.600 --> 1:43:03.439 was just great moment when you know, I built my 1:43:03.800 --> 1:43:07.360 life on with Alice by trying to get parents to 1:43:07.439 --> 1:43:07.800 hate him. 1:43:08.320 --> 1:43:09.080 That was my goal. 1:43:09.800 --> 1:43:12.280 And now it's ten or fifteen years later, the kids 1:43:12.360 --> 1:43:14.800 are getting you know, I have these four kids, they're young. 1:43:14.880 --> 1:43:17.080 They're staying in the bedroom next to me at my 1:43:17.200 --> 1:43:19.880 house and I come walking by and I hear hip 1:43:19.880 --> 1:43:22.320 hop for the first time, and I opened the door 1:43:22.360 --> 1:43:23.719 I go, what is this ship? 1:43:23.800 --> 1:43:24.760 You're listening. 1:43:26.200 --> 1:43:28.800 And Alice Cooper did yeah, And as I say it, 1:43:28.880 --> 1:43:31.960 I realized, oh my god, this is exact They're gonna 1:43:32.120 --> 1:43:32.880 that's that's it. 1:43:33.320 --> 1:43:33.800 And what's there? 1:43:33.840 --> 1:43:35.120 What's the oldest kid? How old? 1:43:35.520 --> 1:43:35.680 Now? 1:43:35.800 --> 1:43:37.080 Thirty five at that time? 1:43:37.280 --> 1:43:38.240 Was back then? 1:43:38.479 --> 1:43:40.320 Yeah? They were fine? 1:43:40.560 --> 1:43:43.120 Oh yeah, no, they the dungarees were always you know, 1:43:43.200 --> 1:43:44.200 the underwear was showing. 1:43:44.280 --> 1:43:48.360 It was every single thing. If they were yo, MTV 1:43:48.560 --> 1:43:51.640 wraps was all they cared about. That was you know, 1:43:51.840 --> 1:43:55.320 that was their life. But I knew it right then. 1:43:55.360 --> 1:43:57.519 As soon as I said that, when those words came 1:43:57.560 --> 1:44:00.519 out of my mouth, I said, it's me usic business 1:44:00.560 --> 1:44:02.960 is changing because if I can't stand that, it's going 1:44:03.040 --> 1:44:04.360 to be the biggest thing and then it works. 1:44:04.360 --> 1:44:04.559 Wow. 1:44:04.640 --> 1:44:04.800 Yeah. 1:44:05.680 --> 1:44:08.880 So probably the biggest lesson that I learned, I mean, 1:44:09.760 --> 1:44:12.600 the point where I realized like, oh, this is a 1:44:12.760 --> 1:44:14.519 lesson that I have to learn is the fact that 1:44:15.640 --> 1:44:20.400 you have to walk away from it and really just 1:44:20.600 --> 1:44:24.320 let go. Which to think about that right now for 1:44:24.439 --> 1:44:27.080 me is like that's one of the scariest things because 1:44:27.240 --> 1:44:30.439 you think like this is all I have, Like this 1:44:30.560 --> 1:44:33.760 is all you know, I don't have a lineage or 1:44:33.840 --> 1:44:37.200 that sort of thing, and it's just like, well, I've 1:44:37.320 --> 1:44:39.560 made a commitment to the music business, so this is 1:44:39.640 --> 1:44:46.080 all I've got. I mean, at what point did you, like, 1:44:46.200 --> 1:44:48.160 did it take having to go to the hospital where 1:44:48.160 --> 1:44:48.800 it's just no, no. 1:44:48.920 --> 1:44:52.679 Mine was completely different. I had a I've always done 1:44:52.720 --> 1:44:56.120 knee jerk reactions. I've never been a planner. I planned 1:44:56.120 --> 1:44:58.800 for my artists, for my own life. I've always you know, 1:44:58.840 --> 1:45:01.040 I wake up in the morning, I really act. And 1:45:01.160 --> 1:45:05.120 I had a premiere at Universal Studios for one of 1:45:05.160 --> 1:45:09.799 my movies, Big red Carpet premiere, Cleague, Lights of Flying 1:45:09.920 --> 1:45:12.439 and you know all that stuff. And I was bored 1:45:12.479 --> 1:45:16.439 to death, like so bored, you know, I just couldn't 1:45:16.439 --> 1:45:19.880 wait to get out of there, go see CNN do anything. 1:45:19.920 --> 1:45:21.720 But it was, you know, the same old, same old, 1:45:21.800 --> 1:45:22.400 same old for me. 1:45:23.120 --> 1:45:26.320 And the next day I flew to Mallion. 1:45:26.439 --> 1:45:29.280 I was alone on my hammock having a drink at sunset, 1:45:29.360 --> 1:45:34.560 and every molecule in my body was ecstatic, like ecstatic. 1:45:34.640 --> 1:45:38.400 I can't even describe how happy. And I said to myself, 1:45:38.439 --> 1:45:44.160 you know, you're miserable there, you're happy here. 1:45:44.920 --> 1:45:45.599 What are you doing? 1:45:47.000 --> 1:45:50.599 It's pretty simple, like what's life all about. I worked 1:45:50.640 --> 1:45:54.920 so hard to get happy and I found what makes 1:45:54.960 --> 1:45:56.080 me happy, and I'm not doing it. 1:45:56.880 --> 1:45:59.160 And I went to the office about four days later 1:45:59.240 --> 1:46:01.719 and resigned from everybody and told them the story. 1:46:01.840 --> 1:46:04.599 And I said, you know, you don't have a fear 1:46:04.640 --> 1:46:10.160 of missing out? We call it. You didn't have a because. 1:46:10.080 --> 1:46:12.799 It's to me, it was sort of false gods anyway, 1:46:13.880 --> 1:46:17.840 you know, it's it's it's like fool's gold. I mean, 1:46:17.840 --> 1:46:21.559 I've always had that awareness that we're in the entertainment business. 1:46:21.600 --> 1:46:24.479 It really doesn't matter, and it is sort of fool's gold. 1:46:24.920 --> 1:46:27.360 And it's fun and it's great and it provides great stuff, 1:46:27.400 --> 1:46:33.640 but it's not you know, it's not curing cancer. And 1:46:33.960 --> 1:46:37.360 and for me as a manager, when I also realizes 1:46:37.439 --> 1:46:39.720 that I had up until that point, I had spent 1:46:39.800 --> 1:46:42.880 my life living other people's lives and I had no 1:46:43.040 --> 1:46:46.000 idea what my life actually was like. If I'm if 1:46:46.040 --> 1:46:47.640 I don't have to go to the office, am I 1:46:47.680 --> 1:46:49.400 going to be bored to death? Am I going to 1:46:49.600 --> 1:46:52.479 like myself? Am I going to hate myself? Maybe I'm 1:46:52.479 --> 1:46:54.640 going to get married like I always wanted to do, 1:46:54.720 --> 1:46:58.080 but I never had never happened let me find out 1:46:58.240 --> 1:47:01.479 what my journey is made. What I found out is 1:47:01.560 --> 1:47:06.759 that there's no difference, Like my life is absolutely not different, 1:47:07.000 --> 1:47:10.880 retiring not retiring. I probably if I got a second 1:47:10.960 --> 1:47:13.080 life and could do it again, I probably wouldn't retire. 1:47:13.840 --> 1:47:15.920 I would find a way to have the two live 1:47:16.479 --> 1:47:20.120 with each other, because there were great advantages for me 1:47:20.280 --> 1:47:24.120 to be in the traffic. I still love to think 1:47:24.200 --> 1:47:28.200 of something and then make it happen, to create something 1:47:28.280 --> 1:47:30.240 out it it doesn't exist. And I did a big 1:47:30.320 --> 1:47:33.719 benefit Monday night for a chef, Roger Verger with about 1:47:33.760 --> 1:47:36.360 twenty chefs. And in the early days I could do 1:47:36.479 --> 1:47:39.360 that with the staff in my office so I could 1:47:39.400 --> 1:47:39.800 think of it. 1:47:40.439 --> 1:47:42.439 Now it's just me, so the. 1:47:42.560 --> 1:47:46.479 Effort is gigantic, the result is probably less than it 1:47:46.600 --> 1:47:47.880 might be with the great staff. 1:47:49.080 --> 1:47:50.360 And I still do the same stuff. 1:47:50.439 --> 1:47:51.639 But you're not retired either. 1:47:51.880 --> 1:47:54.360 Technically you're not my manage Alice, But in my brain 1:47:54.400 --> 1:47:54.960 I thought it was. 1:47:56.560 --> 1:47:59.120 With the chefs. I mean, he's taking himself out of that, 1:48:00.080 --> 1:48:04.280 out of the hustle bustle, Like did you personally have 1:48:04.360 --> 1:48:06.080 a one on one with all your clientele? 1:48:06.280 --> 1:48:07.720 Was it just like I called everybod I did it 1:48:07.800 --> 1:48:12.200 on the phone. I called them all the only Luther 1:48:13.320 --> 1:48:15.200 who I hadn't spoken to in a couple of years, 1:48:16.080 --> 1:48:18.120 was it? The only one that was sort of upset? 1:48:18.760 --> 1:48:19.120 All right? 1:48:19.640 --> 1:48:22.680 And then when I was so I woke, I got 1:48:22.720 --> 1:48:25.479 back to La. I called Alice and I said, where 1:48:25.520 --> 1:48:27.720 are you? He said in LA? I said, will you 1:48:27.800 --> 1:48:29.680 picked me up today for lunch? Because I want to 1:48:29.680 --> 1:48:33.280 get really drunk and I don't want to drive. And 1:48:33.360 --> 1:48:34.840 he said, what's wrong? And I said, nothing wrong, but 1:48:34.840 --> 1:48:36.960 I'm going to resigne from everybody but not you. But 1:48:37.760 --> 1:48:40.760 and I really don't. I want to get whacked. And 1:48:41.840 --> 1:48:44.920 so I called all the clients. Everybody was and I 1:48:45.000 --> 1:48:46.880 told the truth. You know, I said, I want to 1:48:46.880 --> 1:48:49.160 find out who I am. I have no idea what 1:48:49.280 --> 1:48:51.080 my life is now. Oh were you at this point? 1:48:51.280 --> 1:48:56.120 I was fifty seven fifty six, maybe fifty five fifty six. 1:48:56.400 --> 1:48:57.880 How much grace time do you give them? 1:48:58.080 --> 1:48:58.120 Like? 1:48:58.400 --> 1:48:58.679 Okay? 1:48:58.720 --> 1:49:00.439 So what I said to him was, you know, you 1:49:00.560 --> 1:49:03.840 can use the office, use my guys if you want. 1:49:05.080 --> 1:49:08.160 So I was still, yeah, I can find you somebody 1:49:08.240 --> 1:49:10.240 else if you'd like. I'll give you a list. 1:49:10.280 --> 1:49:12.439 I'll go to the interviews with you and really help 1:49:12.479 --> 1:49:13.040 you get through it. 1:49:13.520 --> 1:49:15.920 I just I got to find out who I am. 1:49:16.640 --> 1:49:19.439 You know, this is for me, not about you. And 1:49:20.240 --> 1:49:24.559 everybody was happy. Luther wasn't, but he sort of understood. 1:49:25.479 --> 1:49:27.560 And as I was leaving the office with Alice, the 1:49:27.600 --> 1:49:31.559 phone rang and my secretary said, you got to take 1:49:31.600 --> 1:49:33.479 this call. And I said, I'm not taking any more calls. 1:49:33.760 --> 1:49:38.120 It's over done. I'm going there and said, no, no, 1:49:38.400 --> 1:49:40.600 you really got to take this call. And it was 1:49:40.640 --> 1:49:45.800 George Harrison who had just found the basement tapes that 1:49:45.960 --> 1:49:48.960 John Lennon song for You as a Bird, And he said, 1:49:50.479 --> 1:49:51.680 do you think any record. 1:49:51.439 --> 1:49:52.639 Company will put this stuff out? 1:49:53.160 --> 1:49:57.280 And I said, do I think any Beetles? Get out 1:49:57.320 --> 1:49:57.479 of here? 1:49:57.520 --> 1:49:59.320 He turned out to be close to right. It was 1:49:59.360 --> 1:50:03.360 a fight, a fight, a real tough fight, but for. 1:50:03.439 --> 1:50:04.839 You guys to get a new Beatles. 1:50:04.920 --> 1:50:08.920 Capital didn't want to resign him. What it was it was, 1:50:09.560 --> 1:50:12.120 it's a long it's a whole other story and it's a. 1:50:12.120 --> 1:50:14.599 Long one, but it was Gary gerse Era Capital. 1:50:15.600 --> 1:50:19.439 I hired Garriott Capital when at that during that. 1:50:20.080 --> 1:50:20.840 Do you see what I mean? 1:50:21.720 --> 1:50:22.040 During that? 1:50:22.120 --> 1:50:23.760 Do you know this guy named Gary gerc he. 1:50:23.880 --> 1:50:27.240 Was during that period of time, during that period of time. 1:50:27.640 --> 1:50:30.320 So anyway, I ended up. 1:50:31.880 --> 1:50:34.479 Making the deal with Capital, which wasn't easy for him, 1:50:34.840 --> 1:50:38.400 and doing working on the BBC tapes and the anthology, 1:50:39.840 --> 1:50:43.240 and Luther freaked out. You told me you were resigning, 1:50:44.720 --> 1:50:47.439 now you're doing the bet. He found out, I have 1:50:47.520 --> 1:50:49.960 no idea. He rewrote his biography and took me out 1:50:49.960 --> 1:50:53.120 of it. I was very heavily in the first printing. 1:50:54.200 --> 1:50:55.240 The second print. 1:50:57.320 --> 1:51:10.280 I didn't, Oh my god, well, I'm more amazed that 1:51:11.120 --> 1:51:12.600 a new Beatles. 1:51:12.240 --> 1:51:14.720 Song well as a There's a long history here. So 1:51:14.800 --> 1:51:17.080 here's sort of the let me give you the cover 1:51:17.240 --> 1:51:21.200 of it. Here's the cover. Capital E. 1:51:21.400 --> 1:51:24.240 M I an electronics company that happened to be in 1:51:24.280 --> 1:51:27.639 the music business, but Thorny m I was the core 1:51:27.720 --> 1:51:33.000 of their business. They made refrigerators, defence stuff. They were 1:51:33.040 --> 1:51:40.160 basically a science patent owner company. And they hired a 1:51:40.240 --> 1:51:42.400 guy named They bought a company from a fellow named 1:51:42.600 --> 1:51:47.240 Colin Southgate and made him chairman of Thorny m I 1:51:47.400 --> 1:51:54.160 part of the purchase. He gets the job. He's in 1:51:54.240 --> 1:51:57.200 the job for three weeks. He goes what they call 1:51:57.400 --> 1:52:00.840 Wall Street in England, the Street. So he goes to 1:52:00.920 --> 1:52:03.880 make his first speech to the street and the announcement 1:52:04.080 --> 1:52:08.839 is that they've resigned the Beatles in the press conference. 1:52:09.080 --> 1:52:12.879 During the press conference, as he's saying we resigned the Beatles, 1:52:13.479 --> 1:52:16.400 a warrant server comes up to him and gives them 1:52:16.400 --> 1:52:17.800 a lawsuit for the Beatles to. 1:52:17.840 --> 1:52:18.679 Get off the label. 1:52:21.000 --> 1:52:24.879 This is his first time as head of the company 1:52:25.320 --> 1:52:28.960 addressing the street. So for him, I never want to 1:52:29.000 --> 1:52:32.800 see the Beatles when the contract's over, get rid of 1:52:32.840 --> 1:52:36.639 the Beatles. Don't ever want him near here. Can't stand them, 1:52:37.120 --> 1:52:41.920 hate them, So now the contract's up. At that point, 1:52:42.840 --> 1:52:46.960 guys who are running the company were more interested in 1:52:47.080 --> 1:52:51.719 their bonuses than in you know, they shut the black 1:52:51.800 --> 1:52:55.920 music department at Capitol Records, like just to get to 1:52:56.000 --> 1:53:01.439 their bonuses. If they would be wanted forty two million 1:53:01.479 --> 1:53:04.320 dollars to re sign, which they deserved, if they had 1:53:04.360 --> 1:53:07.040 given him that money, they wouldn't have gotten their bonuses. 1:53:07.520 --> 1:53:11.439 So I had the chairman, the president, and the vice 1:53:11.520 --> 1:53:14.080 predident all against reciting the Beatles. 1:53:14.600 --> 1:53:18.679 And it was wild to them. It's more of a headache. 1:53:18.880 --> 1:53:20.280 Yeah, they didn't want to deal with it, just didn't 1:53:20.280 --> 1:53:21.920 and they didn't care. They wanted their bonus that I 1:53:21.920 --> 1:53:23.160 could They couldn't care less. 1:53:23.439 --> 1:53:25.680 I couldn't imagine none of the Beatles' music being on 1:53:25.800 --> 1:53:28.040 any other labels other than Capital. 1:53:28.160 --> 1:53:28.320 Yeah. 1:53:28.960 --> 1:53:32.840 Oh, anyway, it made it work, but wow, it was. 1:53:33.000 --> 1:53:33.800 It was pretty wild. 1:53:34.080 --> 1:53:39.200 Yeah. Well, I mean, you know, I can go on 1:53:39.600 --> 1:53:43.960 forever and ever, but you know, all good things come 1:53:44.000 --> 1:53:44.400 to an end. 1:53:44.800 --> 1:53:46.800 Yeah, and uh, this was fun, guys. 1:53:47.960 --> 1:53:49.280 Yeah, this has like been the greatest. 1:53:50.760 --> 1:53:53.479 This is man So one question I did have, So, now, 1:53:53.960 --> 1:53:58.160 you know, what does managing Alice Cooper look like now 1:53:58.320 --> 1:53:59.720 like on a day to day basis. 1:53:59.479 --> 1:54:00.800 Well, I don't. 1:54:01.040 --> 1:54:04.000 It doesn't occupy the whole day, but I still wake 1:54:04.120 --> 1:54:07.400 up in the morning thinking about how to enhance his career, 1:54:08.120 --> 1:54:09.960 and I go to sleep at night thinking about how 1:54:10.000 --> 1:54:10.800 to enhance the career. 1:54:11.760 --> 1:54:12.720 Recently, we just. 1:54:14.520 --> 1:54:17.040 Put him in a band with Johnny Depp that I created, 1:54:17.560 --> 1:54:19.879 which was great for his profile. 1:54:20.000 --> 1:54:21.720 Great john it was. It was a win win. 1:54:21.840 --> 1:54:25.000 Johnny's a musician who always wanted a tour. I'm always 1:54:25.040 --> 1:54:28.599 looking for a way to make Alice current and give 1:54:28.640 --> 1:54:32.800 it an extra twist, so that was perfect. Now we're 1:54:32.880 --> 1:54:35.480 running in for president. We have a great campaign for 1:54:35.880 --> 1:54:45.160 get Alice elected, and he's on the Wild Party. His 1:54:45.320 --> 1:54:51.080 platform is gradual marks on a fifty dollars bill. Let 1:54:51.160 --> 1:54:55.080 me on Mount Rushmore. Wow, one selfie allowed a year 1:54:57.360 --> 1:55:00.440 prison sentence for anyone talking in a movie theater. Okay, 1:55:01.520 --> 1:55:02.480 that's just platform. 1:55:02.960 --> 1:55:09.400 So it's you know, Alice is everybody in their life 1:55:09.400 --> 1:55:11.040 should have a relationship like Alice. 1:55:11.920 --> 1:55:15.360 It's just we've it's been an amazing forty five years 1:55:15.360 --> 1:55:18.160 and he gives me the freedom to fail, which gives 1:55:18.160 --> 1:55:19.760 me the freedom to be creative. 1:55:21.280 --> 1:55:25.960 Well, I I have to say, uh, you are probably, 1:55:26.360 --> 1:55:32.040 I mean, the textbook guru of of of all gurus. 1:55:32.240 --> 1:55:38.280 I mean, there's there's no person that I've not made 1:55:38.400 --> 1:55:42.240 watch this documentary over and over again, and and you've 1:55:42.280 --> 1:55:47.200 been very very generous, uh and and your wisdom and everything. 1:55:47.280 --> 1:55:49.680 I really would like to thank you Shep Gordon for 1:55:49.880 --> 1:55:54.040 just being here man, Thank you, thank you, thank you 1:55:54.080 --> 1:55:56.840 for doing Christ loves to bring you guys. 1:55:56.880 --> 1:55:58.280 You're ready really problem. 1:56:08.520 --> 1:56:12.240 Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This classic 1:56:12.320 --> 1:56:20.480 episode was produced by the team at Landoran. For more 1:56:20.520 --> 1:56:25.000 podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or 1:56:25.040 --> 1:56:26.640 wherever you listen to your favorite shows.