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Speaker 1: Of Course Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This

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Speaker 1: classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. Yo Yo,

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Speaker 1: what up.

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Speaker 2: This is Fante back again with another QLs classic.

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Speaker 1: This one we take this from back to October.

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Speaker 2: Sixteenth, twenty sixteen. This was episode six of our show

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Speaker 2: where we sat down with one of the most iconic

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Speaker 2: managers in all of music. Shep Gordon came in to

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Speaker 2: Quest Love Supreme and he talked about his time of

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Speaker 2: Luther Vandroz, Tip Pendergrass and Alice Cooper and countless others.

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Speaker 2: This is a really fun episode. Shep was a lot

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Speaker 2: of fun. Y'all enjoy this CURELS classic. It's Fontaino yeh.

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Speaker 3: Supremo So so up, Suprema roll call Supriva Suck Suck Supremo,

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Speaker 3: roll Call Supreme, Suprema.

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Speaker 1: Supreme a roll. My name is quest Love. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: have a fence. Yeah, don't get mad Steve. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: didn't rhyme the words you think.

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Speaker 4: Suprema Son Supreme, A role called Suprema son Son Suprema,

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Speaker 4: role called.

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Speaker 1: Yeah I am a Trooper. Yeah. My favorite single Yeah

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Speaker 1: it was Jimmy.

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Speaker 4: Apreca Son Supreme. A role called Suprema, So Supreme, A

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Speaker 4: role called.

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Speaker 1: My name is Sugar. Yeah, you know my stanch. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's nice to meet you. Yeah, Superman Show.

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Speaker 4: Supreme Son Son Supreme, roll call Supreme So.

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Speaker 2: Supreme, A role call Lost Bill is here. Yeah, Quest

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Speaker 2: Love Supreme. Yeah, thank you for listening. Yeah, this Pandora

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Speaker 2: stream Bro Suprema.

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Speaker 4: Son Son Suprema roll call Suprema Son Son Suprema roll

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Speaker 4: call my name.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I love the brothers.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: But Chef, Yeah about.

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Speaker 4: The Suprema roll call Suprema Son Suprema roll.

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Speaker 1: Call my neighbor, Chef.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I come from MAUI. Yeah, I'm looking for a joint. Yeah,

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Speaker 6: and I have no idea how to Ryan.

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Speaker 4: Roll call Suprema some some Supremo roll call Suprema some

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Speaker 4: something Supremo roll call.

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Speaker 6: That was perfect.

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Speaker 1: What's up, ladies and gentlemen. This is Quest Love. How

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Speaker 1: you doing. We are alive at Electric Lady Studio. I'm

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Speaker 1: sitting here with Team Supreme. How you doing, guys? Yeah right,

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Speaker 1: all right, Oh man, I'm really I'm really excited today

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Speaker 1: because the the Guru of all gurus, one of the best,

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Speaker 1: most powerful managers, most effective managers, and music uh is

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Speaker 1: with us today. Shep Gordon, He I mean some of

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Speaker 1: the greatest name of the Luther Vanros, Alice Cooper, Blondie Blondie,

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Speaker 1: Teddy Wait food. He does food too. That's amazing. Yes,

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Speaker 1: of course he invented the food. So we're just going

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Speaker 1: to try and I actually want to pick his brain.

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Speaker 1: Just not many people know that have seen the Superman

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Speaker 1: documentary that Mike Myers did For those that don't know,

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Speaker 1: when they were shooting Wayne's World and requested Alice Cooper

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Speaker 1: to come on the movie to do a cameo We're

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Speaker 1: not worthy, We're not worthy. That's how Mike Myers got

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Speaker 1: to know SHEF Gordon, And when he heard his life story,

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Speaker 1: he was like, one day, I'm gonna make a story

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Speaker 1: of your life. So, I mean some nineteen twenty years

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Speaker 1: later he made that documentary. But because Shep's clientele is

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Speaker 1: so expansive and lodge, not many people know that he

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Speaker 1: has managed some of the greatest, most powerful names in

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Speaker 1: black music. I mean they cover Teddy Pendergrass, but I mean,

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Speaker 1: as we mentioned, like mid nice stars in the point.

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Speaker 2: Ye Kenny Loggins, right, Keay Loggins was black for a

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Speaker 2: couple of the great voices thank him justin.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you're right, you're right. So we're gonna pick his

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Speaker 1: brain a little bit. But you know how, I want

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Speaker 1: to know how you guys are doing. What's up? Man,

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Speaker 1: I'm in the middle of trying to move from my

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Speaker 1: goddamn house. It is tiring. It is tired. Man. You're

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Speaker 1: doing it on your own. Hell no, I'm hiring movers.

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Speaker 1: What part is tiring.

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Speaker 2: It's just like because you don't realize how much ship

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Speaker 2: you have until you start taking away ship that you

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Speaker 2: sit your ship on.

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Speaker 1: So you know, you have a little TV on the

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Speaker 1: big TV. I'm not that good. I'm you know, I'm

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Speaker 1: past the did you once have a small TV on it?

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Speaker 2: We had we had the floor model that didn't work,

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Speaker 2: and then we had the TV on top of it.

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Speaker 1: Yet that you know that did that had? You know

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Speaker 1: it had the big back a little bit?

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Speaker 2: So nah man, But nah, I'm in the process of moving,

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Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying, and packing up all my

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Speaker 2: music and that's like been the biggest thing, like clearing

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Speaker 2: my media rat with all my like CDs and vinyl

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Speaker 2: and CDs.

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Speaker 1: And still keep your CDs in your cassettes, not my Cossetts.

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Speaker 1: I don't, but my CDs I do. My whole thing

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Speaker 1: is like, aw, you're gonna have to downsize that. You're like,

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Speaker 1: I did I have? I have downside? I cold her.

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Speaker 2: I think I got like maybe like two hundred copies

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Speaker 2: of the two hundred CDs away.

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Speaker 1: So I got two hundred out and it was just

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Speaker 1: stuff that threw them away. No, no, no, not throw away.

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Speaker 1: I just throw away. I donated them. I donated them

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Speaker 1: like a good will or whatever. Not seeing them again,

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Speaker 1: you would have hated me in two thousand and nine.

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Speaker 1: Well you gave stuff away. I threw stuff away? Oh wow,

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Speaker 1: what did you throw away? This a whole like. This

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Speaker 1: was right at the end of my record label days.

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Speaker 2: So I had a ton of just shitty promos and

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Speaker 2: stuff that couldn't sell them for anything, so I just

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Speaker 2: put them on the corner.

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Speaker 5: I used to sell them on Amazon.

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Speaker 1: I like, there's like too much work. Do I really

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Speaker 1: need three copies of White Tea by the franchise Boy?

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Speaker 6: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I mean that's exactly kind of stuff I was throwing out.

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Speaker 2: You know, all those crappy Universal Records promos in the

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Speaker 2: blue sleeves that nobody WoT I won't lie. Like we

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Speaker 2: realized that if we went up to uh Geffing Records

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Speaker 2: and jack a couple of boxes, we could sell them

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Speaker 2: and make cash. So there was a period where we

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Speaker 2: were like stealing our own promos.

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Speaker 1: Big red boot.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: But after a while they're like, I don't need no

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Speaker 1: more distortion and stack. You know, got like two hundred copies. Wow.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, that's been me man, just like pecking up

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Speaker 2: and like getting rid of ship and uh handling life stuff.

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Speaker 2: It's been interesting being absolved into the quest Love universe

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Speaker 2: because you are in your own.

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Speaker 1: Time and uh it is. It is a lot, you

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Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. But we do it because we

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Speaker 1: love you, our great lead. Better be honestly stop it,

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Speaker 1: all of you, stop it, I said, please, No, we

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Speaker 1: do it. Look, we do it in service of he.

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Speaker 1: I'm honored and to be in your presence. I work

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Speaker 1: for this really great guy. All right, I'm skipping all

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Speaker 1: of you. Actually have we have someone new and our

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Speaker 1: miss Actually Scott is like our boss, your boss Losses.

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Speaker 1: He's the pretty much. Yeah. When at first I didn't

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Speaker 1: like you around because I just felt this pressure. Well,

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Speaker 1: let's let's clear. Used to stand behind me like the

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Speaker 1: like the like the Angel of Death. Yes, well I

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Speaker 1: got seated there. I didn't actually choose that place, but

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Speaker 1: I did. I felt bad about being he did. He did.

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Speaker 1: He actually hit me up the next day and he

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Speaker 1: was like, oh man, I hope. I mean you know,

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Speaker 1: like the Family Guy episode where like the Angel Death

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Speaker 1: is just chill and talking to Peter like any second

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Speaker 1: he could die. Like any email I've ever got from Scott,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, ship, I just lost the show. I

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Speaker 1: lost the show. The shows on. How are we doing, Scott? Great?

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Speaker 1: It's amazing. No, No, I mean literally, how are we question?

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Speaker 4: We have?

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Speaker 1: Yes? What is what is the what is the need

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Speaker 1: for us to always check that if we're gonna have employment?

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Speaker 1: I think that's a black ship.

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Speaker 2: Like we we're always like okay uh with like I

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Speaker 2: think every every black person that has had some success,

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Speaker 2: like we're always secretly like waiting because like that white

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Speaker 2: man to come and just take everything away, because you know, seriously,

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Speaker 2: I was I was literally just thinking going through my

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Speaker 2: work history and like pretty much anytime I got an

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Speaker 2: email from any any my supervisors whatever, it's like, oh

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Speaker 2: that's it.

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Speaker 1: Anytime. Yeah, let's let's open in the future that I

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Speaker 1: still have my eighteen jobs. That's that's all I'm saying. So, Steve,

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Speaker 1: how how you doing? I'm great? Is it good to

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Speaker 1: be back at Electricity Studios? Oh yeah, this is amazing.

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Speaker 1: I love being here. Vibe great, staff is great, all

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Speaker 1: the memories.

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Speaker 5: And you started from the bottom here right, look at me,

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Speaker 5: down here, look at me.

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Speaker 1: He turned into Phil Collins, started from the bottle and

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Speaker 1: take him field of goal. Now I feel good. I missed.

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Speaker 1: Bill Sherman is not here, so I'm going to be

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Speaker 1: doing this. Where is Bill?

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Speaker 4: Bill?

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Speaker 1: And Big Bill is in l A. He is working

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Speaker 1: on a TV show that he and I both will

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Speaker 1: be nice Floyd on.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I'm saying, so, see, you're getting your jobs on

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Speaker 2: I'm getting my job, yo.

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Speaker 1: I told you Quest Love is I want to be

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Speaker 1: like Quest Loving. Get your job, bro, I'm getting them

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Speaker 1: getting my jobs up. Man, that's perfect, that's awesome. I'm

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Speaker 1: not complaining. So, of course, our special guests today on

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Speaker 1: Quest Love Supreme, What can I say? I mean? At

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Speaker 1: the very beginning of the tonight show, we had a

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Speaker 1: guest Mike Myers on promoting a movie, a documentary called

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Speaker 1: Super Mitch and on Netflix right now. Yes, it's on

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Speaker 1: Netflix right now, and it instantly caught my attention because

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I thought I was going to

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Speaker 1: see a music documentary and instead I got a life lesson.

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Speaker 1: It was like the greatest ted talk ever, but like

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Speaker 1: not way cooler, the more the most creative tech of

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Speaker 1: all time, more emotional. So you know about our next guest,

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Speaker 1: Shep Gordon is I mean, he's a guru. He's a

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Speaker 1: manager and organizer, a conceptualizer. Uh and most importantly he's

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Speaker 1: a friend to everyone. Ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to of

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Speaker 1: course Love Supreme. Shep Gordon.

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Speaker 6: Thank you, Hello, thank you, thank you. Thanks for the

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Speaker 6: Netflix plug.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah yeah. We watched it.

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Speaker 2: For the first time a couple of nights ago, and

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Speaker 2: I remember one of the there's things I can remember,

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Speaker 2: you know, when you know we can get into the business.

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Speaker 2: My friend of mine told me, he was like, your

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Speaker 2: manager has got to be whoever you choose your manager,

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Speaker 2: that has got to be the guy that knows where

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Speaker 2: all your bodies are buried. Like that's got to be

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Speaker 2: no secret, none, it's got to know everything. Whatever whatever

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Speaker 2: drug you on, whoever girl you're sleeping with, whatever, all

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Speaker 2: the dirt, Like your manager has to be the guy

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Speaker 2: to know it, because he's the guy that has to

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Speaker 2: protect you from it.

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Speaker 1: You know, you're saying that if you were to pass away,

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Speaker 1: have somebody run in the house and clean up a

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Speaker 1: little bit. Yeah, everyone, brother, everyone needs a mister wolf everyone.

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Speaker 2: And watching the Superman documentary, I was just like, yo,

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Speaker 2: Shep Gordon is the ultimate mister Wolf. Like, he's the

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Speaker 2: ultimate like manager that anyone could ever wish for.

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Speaker 1: Now we're broadcasting here at our at our home and electrically.

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Speaker 1: And you know, of course, of your connection with Jimmy Hendricks.

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Speaker 1: You said you were here when he.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, I lived on Ninth Street and Fifth Avenue, and

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Speaker 7: I had a good friend of mine, Alan Douglas, who

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Speaker 7: had a daughter who was the same age as a

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Speaker 7: child I was raising, and he was here at the

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Speaker 7: time doing some over. Jimmy had passed away, and this

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Speaker 7: was the first album coming out after he passed away.

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Speaker 7: They brought in John McLachlan and a bunch of people

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Speaker 7: to play on it. They said that they had found

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Speaker 7: the guitar part only and rebuilt the record. And I

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Speaker 7: used to drop the girl I was not my daughter,

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Speaker 7: but the girl I was raising here and they babysit for.

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Speaker 6: While they were working here at the Electric Leaveinglan.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, because it was all part of you know, it

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Speaker 6: was such a different business then.

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Speaker 7: You know, it was a family. We all knew each other,

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Speaker 7: wasn't It wasn't like random people were coming in to

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Speaker 7: use the studio. There was no studio business. It was

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Speaker 7: basically acts that was signed by a record company and

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Speaker 7: everybody sort of new.

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Speaker 6: So it was very family.

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Speaker 1: See that's when when I did my residency here back

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Speaker 1: in I started in ninety seven.

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Speaker 6: Was Eddi Kramer here?

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Speaker 1: Then you know the first year they that's when they

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Speaker 1: first started to re release a lot of hidden not

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Speaker 1: the hidden, the unreleased under Hendrick stuff. So Janey Hendricks

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Speaker 1: and Eddie had crazy stories for us, like they played

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Speaker 1: us all these tapes and everything, and you know, like

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Speaker 1: it's funny, like this was like a I consider this

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Speaker 1: my my home because I did like a majority of

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Speaker 1: my work at the studio from like ninety seven to

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Speaker 1: like two thousand and four, and I think like between

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Speaker 1: ninety eight and two thousand and two, Like I mean,

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Speaker 1: there'd be times where I just like slept here in

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Speaker 1: the studio, like but that that.

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Speaker 7: Was the way it was then. That was sort of

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Speaker 7: the way it was. You know, you came in, you'd

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Speaker 7: spend sixty days, forty five days. You sort of live here,

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Speaker 7: you do your record. It was a different The recording

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Speaker 7: process was a very I think I never recorded, so

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Speaker 7: I don't know, but I think a very different process.

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Speaker 7: It was a it was much more a creative collaboration.

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Speaker 7: And if someone was in studio B you'd bring them

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Speaker 7: in and the same thing. Yeah, they'd work on the

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Speaker 7: record with you. It wasn't this territorial yeah, weird thing.

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Speaker 1: The same thing here, Like we would there'd be clients

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Speaker 1: in the sea room upstairs, and we'd be in the

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Speaker 1: a room downstairs, and then we sneak over and pee.

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Speaker 6: I need a background vocal anybody, Uh yeah, poach.

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Speaker 1: People and do that. So for those that haven't seen

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Speaker 1: the film, I guess what the beginning of your your

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Speaker 1: management career was Alex Cooper nine, And I mean at

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Speaker 1: the time, I mean for me, like a manager, there's

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Speaker 1: two types of manager. One is like super established, like

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Speaker 1: if you go to like a company and someone that's

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Speaker 1: like alter established, and then someone that's just your road

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Speaker 1: buddy that's organized, and I mean, you haven't haven't had

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Speaker 1: any experience in the music business, like where you kind

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Speaker 1: of worried about how to navigate.

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Speaker 6: You know, I never really thought about it. I did

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Speaker 6: it as a mine was a cover.

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Speaker 7: I got into being a manager, so if someone asked

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Speaker 7: me how did I make a living, I could say

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Speaker 7: I was I was a manager. Jimmy Hendrix said to

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Speaker 7: me when I was, I was a dealer and on

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Speaker 7: a very low level. And he said, what are you

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Speaker 7: gonna do if the police ask you where you make

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Speaker 7: your money? You know, and where I grew up. You

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Speaker 7: need to you wear a new watch. You've been to

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Speaker 7: be able to tell the cop where you got to watch?

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Speaker 7: And I said, you know, I'm a middle class you

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Speaker 7: they Long Island, they don't police, don't company.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I was about to say, like opportunity.

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Speaker 5: Exactly, but that's crazy because then watching the documentary, I said,

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Speaker 5: there and I wondered. I was like, at the point

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Speaker 5: where you and Alice Cooper said okay, we're going to

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Speaker 5: do this, you had to have more expertise than just a.

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Speaker 1: Dealer, like.

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Speaker 6: And you know what alse Alice says, his words are

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Speaker 6: Scheppinheim met All a lie I told him I was

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Speaker 6: a singer. He told me he was a manager.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 6: But what what happened was.

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Speaker 7: People started getting busted around me, and I didn't want

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Speaker 7: to deal anymore. So I sat down with Alice and

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Speaker 7: I said, I have no idea what I'm doing. And

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Speaker 7: he said I have no idea what I'm doing. And

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Speaker 7: I said, well, let's figure it out and get rich,

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Speaker 7: and let's agree to stay together till we didn't.

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Speaker 1: So we we.

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Speaker 7: I had never thought of myself as a manager. It

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Speaker 7: was trying to earn lunch. I didn't even know what

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Speaker 7: a manager was. There was no rules for a manager.

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Speaker 7: I had never met a manager. But I had this

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Speaker 7: idea that if we could piss off parents, kids would

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Speaker 7: come to us, and then we could hire people to

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Speaker 7: make music. And that's where we focused, and that's where

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Speaker 7: all of our stunts came from. Our focus at band

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Speaker 7: meetings was how do we piss off parents? And that's

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Speaker 7: where the chicken came from. And that's where the name

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Speaker 7: came from.

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Speaker 1: Now, okay, from our from our side of the fence,

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Speaker 1: especially because we're not the target rock audience. Like I'm

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Speaker 1: certain that you know both you fante and I'm talking

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Speaker 1: to Fante right now, like we were brought up at

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Speaker 1: least in this Baptist or Christian background where it didn't

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Speaker 1: not the Jewish world. It's just like from our point

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Speaker 1: of view, it's always like I was taught, especially the

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Speaker 1: church I went to, like this Pentecostal church, Oh God,

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Speaker 1: which everything was of the devil, and say, you know,

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Speaker 1: like you would look at these you know, you can

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Speaker 1: look at Ozzy Osmorene covers or Blue Oyster Calton like

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Speaker 1: all these things, and you're thinking, like a man, there's

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Speaker 1: a temple of devil worship and basically it's just like

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Speaker 1: a marketing seem like, how can we you were doing exactly.

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Speaker 7: And by the way, Alice's father was a minister. His

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Speaker 7: grandfather was the head of the Church of Jesus Christ.

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Speaker 7: He married the daughter of a minister. He reads the

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Speaker 7: Bible every morning at five o'clock.

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Speaker 6: Since I know him.

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Speaker 7: He goes to church on Sundays. And I had to

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Speaker 7: hide all that because I said, yeah, people are gonna

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Speaker 7: like you.

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Speaker 6: We can't like you.

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Speaker 4: They hate you.

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Speaker 6: So that that was really our biggest challenge was was

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Speaker 6: not giving up who he was.

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Speaker 2: But that's amazing though, man, I mean because that's like

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Speaker 2: a clear like showing just the difference between your persona

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Speaker 2: versus your identity, you know.

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Speaker 1: What I mean, And the fact that he could hold

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Speaker 1: on to who he was and not get lost.

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Speaker 6: But he did.

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Speaker 1: He did.

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Speaker 7: Oh yeah, yeah, he got consumed. He went to rehabby

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Speaker 7: at the bottom. But I think most people who hit

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Speaker 7: that level of fame, especially if they've done it as entertainers,

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Speaker 7: have to deal with that moment where they're not being fulfilled.

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Speaker 7: That there's very few of the number one ers that

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Speaker 7: I've come across who don't need an adjustment somewhere along

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Speaker 7: the way, who don't fall to something.

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Speaker 6: You know, I've had so many.

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Speaker 7: You know, Teddy's not around, Luther's not around, all the

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Speaker 7: people I grew up with, Jimmy Hendrix knighted at twenty

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Speaker 7: seven Mars and at twenty seven. There always was a

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Speaker 7: link between fame and using crutches that really hurt you.

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Speaker 1: What do you think that link is? Like, why do

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Speaker 1: you think you know?

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Speaker 7: I think I don't know in the general world, but

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Speaker 7: I think in the entertainment, in the world that I

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Speaker 7: lived in, which was live entertainers, the rejection is so

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Speaker 7: gigantic to get to a place of success. It's so

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Speaker 7: overwhelming that if it's us, if your goal is to

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Speaker 7: just make a living or to have a career, you

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Speaker 7: can't take all that rejection. So normally it's to fill

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Speaker 7: some hole in you that you think that applause is

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Speaker 7: going to fill some hole for you, and it doesn't,

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Speaker 7: and then you just get angrier and you use more crutches,

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Speaker 7: and you know, hopefully you take a.

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Speaker 6: Small fall and you come back.

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Speaker 1: Well, let me ask I, okay, the way that my

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Speaker 1: manager taught us to cope with it. And this is

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Speaker 1: really weird because everyone around me was like, he's so negative,

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Speaker 1: why do you embrace like all that negativity? And my mom,

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Speaker 1: you know, she had problems with him and everything. But

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Speaker 1: what I realized he was doing by the first year

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Speaker 1: was he was just preparing us to not have any expectations,

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Speaker 1: like he told he told me Richard Nicholson. Yeah, So

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Speaker 1: like Richard was basically like, you know, he's like, I'm

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Speaker 1: not preparing you guys for start him. I want you

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Speaker 1: to have a long term career. So I'd rather you guys,

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Speaker 1: you know, live better than the average jazz musician. You know, now,

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Speaker 1: because we're in hip hop you're instantly thinking of this

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Speaker 1: ticker tape parade or what Rich called the Bentley moment,

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Speaker 1: like think of, think of like think of like your

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Speaker 1: most salacious hype Williams video and yeah, poorn Champagne all

398
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Speaker 1: over women like that that, you know, and he just

399
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Speaker 1: wanted for us to sort of just get rid of

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Speaker 1: that expectation, like he would always say, just lower your expectations.

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Speaker 1: And maybe the first year we started taking a personal

402
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Speaker 1: and then pointing fingers at each other, it's your fault,

403
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Speaker 1: and well you drump to a drum click, but DJs

404
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Speaker 1: will play like all this thing, you know, And then

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Speaker 1: I will say that I will say that protecting ourselves

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Speaker 1: helped us, helped me and Tarika the long run, I mean,

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Speaker 1: some of us sort of fell by the waysides and

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Speaker 1: kind of succumb to different vices and whatnot. But at

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Speaker 1: least for Tarika and I, it kind of helped us.

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Speaker 1: But then again, like twenty years later into it, I

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Speaker 1: don't know if it's made us immune to emotional feelings

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Speaker 1: like I've so you.

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Speaker 2: Don't feel the good So when you say that, you

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Speaker 2: mean like you don't feel the good stuff either.

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Speaker 1: Well I don't, Yeah, I don't feel anything, gotcha, And

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Speaker 1: it's like it's to the point where it's just like,

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Speaker 1: I'm mere. Stevie wonders on the show. Oh my god,

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Speaker 1: Yeah that's cool, Oh my god, I mere?

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Speaker 4: Like what what?

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Speaker 1: What ten years ago you would have been like? And

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Speaker 1: that's the thing, like, I had to numb myself so

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Speaker 1: much to protect to keep myself from forming a drug

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Speaker 1: cabin or suicide or whatever the vices that artists get into.

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Speaker 1: That Now as a forty plus year old man like it. Now,

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to get emotions back and it's.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, no, it's funny you should say that, because I

427
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Speaker 7: from it completely the other side. I've come to the

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Speaker 7: same place.

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Speaker 6: I have.

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Speaker 7: People ask me, is there anything you regret? It was

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Speaker 7: one of the questions that's been asked, and I say,

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Speaker 7: you know, one of the most satisfying nights of my

433
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Speaker 7: life was Alice getting in the Rock and Roll Hall

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Speaker 7: of Fame. It was forty years of hard work and

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Speaker 7: really amazing and I went home and looked in the

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Speaker 7: mirror and said it worked. I got into bed and

437
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:42,920
Speaker 7: watched CNN fifteen minutes after the thing. I didn't go

438
00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:46,639
Speaker 7: to the party. I wish I could have shared in

439
00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:48,879
Speaker 7: the love. And I said to Alis, the next thing,

440
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:49,080
Speaker 7: you know.

441
00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:52,120
Speaker 6: It's weird. I've always been like this. I don't know why.

442
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:54,439
Speaker 6: And they said, well, I was in bed fifteen minutes

443
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:55,760
Speaker 6: after watching a movie.

444
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:01,680
Speaker 7: So we come up from the other side. Because I

445
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:04,400
Speaker 7: manage them exactly the opposite way. I used to sit

446
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:07,160
Speaker 7: them in a room and I would. I would always

447
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:10,159
Speaker 7: tell clients, if I do my job perfectly, it's very

448
00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:14,080
Speaker 7: possible I'll kill you because I'll make you so famous

449
00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:18,600
Speaker 7: that you're going to kill yourself or hurt yourself. But

450
00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:20,200
Speaker 7: I would tell them that and say, that's what I

451
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:21,920
Speaker 7: do for a living. It's the only thing I know

452
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:24,160
Speaker 7: how to do. Other guys will make you more money,

453
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:26,800
Speaker 7: other guys will do a lot of stuff better than me.

454
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:29,200
Speaker 7: I know how to make you really famous.

455
00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:35,119
Speaker 1: And so is it almost is it almost better to

456
00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:38,200
Speaker 1: go for second place?

457
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:40,440
Speaker 7: I don't know better. I don't, you know, hard for

458
00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:42,840
Speaker 7: me to judge, but I think you do what you

459
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:43,399
Speaker 7: know how to do.

460
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:45,159
Speaker 6: I think it's.

461
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:48,680
Speaker 7: I think better, like if I have someone I love.

462
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:53,480
Speaker 7: I'm going through it now with my assistant's daughter who

463
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:57,520
Speaker 7: I love, who's very talented, very beautiful, a lot of

464
00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:00,439
Speaker 7: record companies are trying to sign her and take her,

465
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:02,680
Speaker 7: and I hug her, and I say, why don't.

466
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:05,119
Speaker 6: You become a school teacher and have three kids, because.

467
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:08,760
Speaker 7: You're really happy now and you're going to work for

468
00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:13,120
Speaker 7: thirty years the goal to be happy, and you're gonna

469
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:15,600
Speaker 7: have to unwind a lot of stuff if you're successful,

470
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 7: because that's really the goal I think for most people

471
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:24,200
Speaker 7: is get happy, be able to buy dinner. Yeah, And

472
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:26,920
Speaker 7: I think most artists work at it so hard and

473
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 7: they get to the end of the row where they

474
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:30,240
Speaker 7: can be happy, and they forgot how to be happy.

475
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:30,880
Speaker 4: Yeah.

476
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:33,560
Speaker 1: It's like it's the dog. It's literally the dog chasing

477
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:36,480
Speaker 1: it's hotail. But I will say that there is also

478
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:42,280
Speaker 1: an insatiable thing going on because you know, like my

479
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:51,680
Speaker 1: goal for always, you know, there's always a deeper kind

480
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:55,680
Speaker 1: of end game every three or four years, you know,

481
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:59,240
Speaker 1: back and it's like, man, just okay, just get one grammy,

482
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:06,000
Speaker 1: I'll be happy by my Mond ware house and I'll

483
00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:13,280
Speaker 1: be happy. And then I mean for now, I don't know, like, okay,

484
00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:17,400
Speaker 1: what were your person on my personal like my life goals.

485
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 1: I don't believe in happy, I believe in satisfied. So Okay,

486
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:26,680
Speaker 1: what would where will you really truly be satisfied? But

487
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:31,159
Speaker 1: be artists are never No, I'm gonna keep always. I

488
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:33,359
Speaker 1: know a lot of you, brother, for real, Look we

489
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:35,240
Speaker 1: keep a hunded this quest loves of plean God, damn's

490
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:36,199
Speaker 1: what we do, all right?

491
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:41,360
Speaker 2: So look all right, My happiness for me is again, well,

492
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:45,440
Speaker 2: my sad, sat satisfy, satisfied, my satisfied. My satisfaction would

493
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:48,960
Speaker 2: be when I have enough money in the bank to

494
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:51,800
Speaker 2: where I can sit still for three years, at least

495
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:55,280
Speaker 2: three years and like not do ship Like if I don't,

496
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:56,600
Speaker 2: I don't got to go to a show.

497
00:27:57,240 --> 00:27:59,200
Speaker 1: I ain't got a fucking write, not a song, I

498
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:02,240
Speaker 1: ain't got a sing one goddamn note. I'm good for

499
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:04,320
Speaker 1: like what about ten years? Ten?

500
00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:06,399
Speaker 4: No?

501
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:09,200
Speaker 1: No, no, But I'm like, all right, it's three more

502
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:11,280
Speaker 1: realistic to you or ten because I.

503
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:13,280
Speaker 2: Had the three year plan, but then you got and

504
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:15,960
Speaker 2: then it was like if I get a bigger house

505
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:16,840
Speaker 2: and you addicted.

506
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 1: I think that's human nature, not question love nature.

507
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:24,359
Speaker 2: No, no, no, I think it is human nature. I

508
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 2: think for me, this is like my whole thing, and

509
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 2: it's kind of you know what shep was saying, you know.

510
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:32,720
Speaker 2: My thing was, I remember when I first got in,

511
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:35,560
Speaker 2: when I first when I first first started, before like

512
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:37,919
Speaker 2: we had signed anything, I was working at a call

513
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:39,240
Speaker 2: center making ten dollars an hour.

514
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:42,520
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. And you know I'm in college.

515
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:44,000
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm working at the call center.

516
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:45,520
Speaker 2: It was I mean, it was a shitty job, but

517
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:47,800
Speaker 2: I was like, look, it's ten dollars hour. I remember

518
00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:50,120
Speaker 2: saying to myself specifically, if I could just get to

519
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:52,640
Speaker 2: a point in my career where I'm making ten dollars

520
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 2: an hour rhyming, doing what I love to.

521
00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:57,680
Speaker 1: Do, I'm good.

522
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:00,760
Speaker 2: If I can do If I can make ten dollars

523
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:03,960
Speaker 2: an hour and not be in this fucking call center

524
00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:07,440
Speaker 2: and gotta be nice to these people, I'm good.

525
00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 1: And so I got to that point. And so for me,

526
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:12,040
Speaker 1: my kind of moment realization was I got to that

527
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:13,680
Speaker 1: point where I made way more than that.

528
00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:16,560
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, crazy times more, but you still

529
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 2: find yourself asking for more. And so it's like I

530
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 2: had to check myself. It's like, man, that was a

531
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:23,239
Speaker 2: time in my place. So it got to go when

532
00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:25,600
Speaker 2: I made twenty dollars out and it's like, man, I

533
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 2: remember that was a point in my life, I never thought,

534
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:32,840
Speaker 2: let's get the job.

535
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:38,920
Speaker 1: Even now I am financially I heard that. I was like, wait,

536
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 1: let me So for me, I just keep that and

537
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:49,720
Speaker 1: I keep that in mind for me.

538
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:52,480
Speaker 2: It's like there were times where whenever I get like

539
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:56,160
Speaker 2: depressed or overwhelmed, it just whatever the case, I remember

540
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:58,840
Speaker 2: that there was a day I was praying for the

541
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:02,360
Speaker 2: things that I have now absolutely and that's just keeps

542
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:04,520
Speaker 2: me kind of grounded, you know what I mean.

543
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:07,320
Speaker 7: I say, I wake up and physically say thank you

544
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 7: every day for all the gifts I have. It's amazing

545
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:13,640
Speaker 7: and just for all I mean, all of us were

546
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:14,080
Speaker 7: sitting here.

547
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 1: I've been to your house in Hawaii, so I do

548
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:27,520
Speaker 1: the same thing. So I got to ask you because

549
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 1: you established that you knew the quote unquote twenty seventh club,

550
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 1: which consisted of Hendrickson and Choplin and ours Jim Morrison.

551
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 1: So I mean, was this on a daily or a

552
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 1: weekly basis that you would see these people.

553
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:48,479
Speaker 7: And I'd see them, I'd see Janice. Janis lived at

554
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:50,640
Speaker 7: the motel. It was a Hollywood Landmark motel.

555
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:52,840
Speaker 1: Is that where the height it is? Right now?

556
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:56,240
Speaker 7: No, right next to the Magic Castle on Franklin between

557
00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:57,680
Speaker 7: Highland and Librere.

558
00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:00,240
Speaker 6: It's still there, you know what.

559
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 7: It is, right right next to the driveway for the

560
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 7: Magic Castle. And Janie lived there, so when she wasn't

561
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:09,760
Speaker 7: on the road, she was there every day and with

562
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:12,840
Speaker 7: her Southern comfort bottle and usually a guy in tow

563
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:17,720
Speaker 7: and a revolving door. Guy Jim would come by once

564
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:19,760
Speaker 7: in a while. Wasn't there all the time. The Chambers

565
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:22,600
Speaker 7: brothers lived there, so they were there all the time.

566
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:28,760
Speaker 1: But it was Why was that particular spot the Hollywood mythical?

567
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:30,000
Speaker 6: I think because it was cheap.

568
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 1: First of all, it was cheaper than having your own

569
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:34,240
Speaker 1: property or oh.

570
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 7: Yeah, this was thirty four dollars a night for the room.

571
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:39,400
Speaker 7: Oh wow, you know this was not a fancy This

572
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 7: was a very bare roots hotel knowsdays. Thirty four dollars

573
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:46,080
Speaker 7: was still something, but it was very cheap. It was

574
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 7: a hotel California, swimming pool two stories around it, and

575
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:55,000
Speaker 7: for some reason, you know, it was just music friendly.

576
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 7: You'd go to the pool on a typical afternoon would

577
00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:01,440
Speaker 7: be Arthur Lee. Wow, who was really interesting because he

578
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:05,960
Speaker 7: when he was there, he was the creative leader. When

579
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:08,720
Speaker 7: they would sit around the pool and really he's the

580
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:11,080
Speaker 7: one who would say, you take this, take a background vocal,

581
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 7: do this song, you do this. Everybody would look at him.

582
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 7: He was the he was like they'd bow to Arthurly.

583
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:19,800
Speaker 7: He was the he was the real power in the room.

584
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:24,320
Speaker 1: See you describing this utopian atmosphere where author Lee in

585
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:30,200
Speaker 1: Love and the Jannis Chaplin would just sing likes the guitars.

586
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:33,760
Speaker 7: Usually it was Bobby Newarth would start if Bobby Newarth

587
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:37,680
Speaker 7: was Bob Dylan's road manager and also became a folk

588
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:41,360
Speaker 7: singer later on in his life. He was usually the instigator.

589
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:44,720
Speaker 7: Paul Roth's child lived there, who was the producer of

590
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:49,440
Speaker 7: a lot of the Doors records, great producer, So they

591
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:52,640
Speaker 7: were usually the instigators, and they would bring out Bobby

592
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:54,440
Speaker 7: would bring out his guitar and they just start and

593
00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:57,240
Speaker 7: Janis would jump in and sing and one of the

594
00:32:57,400 --> 00:32:59,680
Speaker 7: chambers of others would get on like a you know,

595
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:03,160
Speaker 7: start beating on a garbage pail or something. And that

596
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:05,080
Speaker 7: was sort of the rhythm of the place. It wasn't

597
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:07,640
Speaker 7: every day, never was organized.

598
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 1: Was the general public aware of this? I mean the

599
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:11,560
Speaker 1: way that was celebrity hunting.

600
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 6: Now, yeah, it was funny, you know it was pre age.

601
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:18,080
Speaker 7: Yea yeah, and there was a great there was a

602
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 7: great rhythm, like sit at the pool and you'd see

603
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:24,280
Speaker 7: like this really pretty girl come in and she'd be

604
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:26,160
Speaker 7: with like Pink Floyd in this room, and then you

605
00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 7: get to the pool the next morning she'd come out

606
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 7: of the Chambers room, and then you come down the

607
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:33,400
Speaker 7: next morning and come out of the you know, someone

608
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:38,960
Speaker 7: else's room. They'd sort of work, yeah, exactly, they sort

609
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:40,720
Speaker 7: of worked. They were arount of the place, and the

610
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:42,840
Speaker 7: GTOs lived there. I don't know if you've ever heard

611
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:46,720
Speaker 7: of them, the girls together outrageously. No, they were a

612
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:49,960
Speaker 7: bunch of groupies who did a recording, recorded an album

613
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:53,320
Speaker 7: for Frank Zappa's label, and they were fantastic there. It

614
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:56,240
Speaker 7: was miss Christie missed this one, missed that one, and

615
00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:58,160
Speaker 7: they sort of took care of all the girls and

616
00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:00,920
Speaker 7: made sure they got fed, you know, and they just

617
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:03,240
Speaker 7: I remember that one of the great days at the

618
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 7: pool because it was a different time. It was a

619
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:08,759
Speaker 7: free love time, you know, it was really different. But

620
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:11,880
Speaker 7: I remember I was down at the pool with with

621
00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:16,239
Speaker 7: I think Lester Chambers and Bobby Newarth, maybe Roth Toohn.

622
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:19,480
Speaker 7: We get to the pool and somebody spots up in

623
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:24,000
Speaker 7: the corner an entire line of ladies lingerie drying out,

624
00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:27,000
Speaker 7: and we're like hound dogs getting so excited.

625
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:29,040
Speaker 6: The ice Capades had checked in.

626
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:42,880
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I'm sorry.

627
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:50,040
Speaker 6: That was the high point of life at the Hollywood Landmark.

628
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:54,279
Speaker 6: The ice Capades were here. It was like, oh my god.

629
00:34:54,520 --> 00:35:00,319
Speaker 1: I mean, by that point, could you imagine and during

630
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:04,440
Speaker 1: mainstream society or was this just like oh, I'm fine.

631
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:07,400
Speaker 7: Just yeah, no, you know, I I had no consciousness

632
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:09,880
Speaker 7: of what it was. And they weren't really mound rushmore

633
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:12,719
Speaker 7: people at the time I was. I had just come

634
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:18,600
Speaker 7: out of college. I remember, I wasn't I had very

635
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:22,600
Speaker 7: few female relationships. I was very I was close to

636
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:24,000
Speaker 7: a version at this point.

637
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:24,279
Speaker 1: In my life.

638
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:27,719
Speaker 6: Yeah, of the late bloomer and this beautiful blonde was

639
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:29,239
Speaker 6: at the pool when she came and she stayed with

640
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:31,560
Speaker 6: me at night and we made love and I'm thinking

641
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:34,239
Speaker 6: I'm in love and they go downstairs the next daye

642
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:35,680
Speaker 6: she said, Leicester Jabers room.

643
00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:43,440
Speaker 1: So you know, one of the things I questioned now,

644
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:50,560
Speaker 1: the way that you were describing managing Anne Mary, because

645
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:54,520
Speaker 1: I was, you know, five or six years old at

646
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:57,120
Speaker 1: the time. You know, I mean, they weren't calling it

647
00:35:57,200 --> 00:35:59,319
Speaker 1: yacht rock back then or a soft pop or whatever.

648
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:02,400
Speaker 1: Like it was just always on radio. Yeah, like I

649
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:06,120
Speaker 1: mean you needed Me was like played like forty two

650
00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:12,840
Speaker 1: billion times a day, like your Lord. However, are you

651
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:14,560
Speaker 1: saying at one point she was a hard.

652
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:16,560
Speaker 6: Sell, because oh she was a very tough sell.

653
00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:18,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that was you that got her on them

654
00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:21,600
Speaker 1: up at Chill with Alice and Midnight Special and all

655
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:22,040
Speaker 1: that stuff.

656
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:24,600
Speaker 7: Yeah, she was a very she was a very tough sell.

657
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:30,120
Speaker 7: But she was amazingly talented in her in her I

658
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:31,759
Speaker 7: don't know, I mean, I don't mean this in a

659
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:35,840
Speaker 7: negative way, her narrow highway. She had one of the

660
00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:39,319
Speaker 7: greatest purest voices you ever heard. Yeah, and she had

661
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:45,880
Speaker 7: very little recognition of what that meant or the part

662
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:48,440
Speaker 7: that wasn't just the voice you had to be an entertainer.

663
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 7: So she was as pure vessel, completely as far away

664
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:56,440
Speaker 7: from Alice as you could possibly get in terms of

665
00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:59,360
Speaker 7: her attraction and her drawer And.

666
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:02,040
Speaker 1: How did she come to your attention?

667
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:05,480
Speaker 7: I was up in Canada doing a pop fit a

668
00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:08,920
Speaker 7: show with John Lennon the first time in Classic Chicken Show, Yeah,

669
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:12,000
Speaker 7: the Chicken Show, and she i turned on the TV.

670
00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:13,600
Speaker 7: There was a guy named Brian to Hearn who was

671
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:16,200
Speaker 7: a producer, and he said, you gotta watch this TV

672
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:19,759
Speaker 7: show I had. I had this girl who teaches Jim

673
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:23,480
Speaker 7: in Canada who's singing this song Snowbird, and she's fantastic.

674
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:24,560
Speaker 6: You may want to work with her.

675
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:26,960
Speaker 7: And it was a summer show and she had been

676
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:28,719
Speaker 7: she was a gym teacher who got a job in

677
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:31,879
Speaker 7: the summer on this four week show and she sang

678
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:36,239
Speaker 7: Snowbird and I heard the song whoa and then just

679
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:38,239
Speaker 7: started to get some traction on radio and it got

680
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:40,719
Speaker 7: to number one. And when it got to number one,

681
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:45,480
Speaker 7: I knew the people the Capitol Records, and they and

682
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:47,120
Speaker 7: her called me and I said, oh, I know all

683
00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:47,480
Speaker 7: about you.

684
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:48,919
Speaker 6: I was up in Canada. It was great.

685
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:53,680
Speaker 1: And so was this truly a time period in which

686
00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:58,680
Speaker 1: I mean, I definitely know the seventies before MTV came

687
00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:02,600
Speaker 1: to play in I mean, now you know image overtakes

688
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:05,920
Speaker 1: talent like talent doesn't even count anymore, borderline.

689
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:07,280
Speaker 6: In every field.

690
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:11,040
Speaker 1: But I mean, are you saying that at one point,

691
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:16,160
Speaker 1: at least for a good twenty year period, talent could

692
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:19,400
Speaker 1: account for something in which, well, I wouldn't go that far.

693
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:22,960
Speaker 7: But here was the difference between then and now, I

694
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:30,840
Speaker 7: think is it Radio was open to playing things. Radio

695
00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:36,400
Speaker 7: ruled the world. Hit records ruled everything entertainment. It was

696
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:38,520
Speaker 7: a very different world that It wasn't like a concert

697
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:42,160
Speaker 7: world where you had to be a great performer and

698
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:48,240
Speaker 7: if you could get the record company to spend the money,

699
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:52,359
Speaker 7: you could have hit records. And that was my goal

700
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:55,759
Speaker 7: with her, was to get hit records. And I got

701
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:58,279
Speaker 7: her in this I decided that I would try and

702
00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:01,879
Speaker 7: put her next to the biggest in the world, take

703
00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:04,080
Speaker 7: that back to the record company and see if they

704
00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:06,080
Speaker 7: would treat her like one of the biggest stars.

705
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:07,400
Speaker 6: In the world. And I got so.

706
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:10,040
Speaker 7: It was a heart sale, a very heart cell heart

707
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:12,800
Speaker 7: sale to her and a heart sale to the record company.

708
00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:17,200
Speaker 7: But once I got the picture with I orchestrated an

709
00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:21,680
Speaker 7: event where John Lennon, Mickey Dolan's, who was gigantic the monkeys.

710
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:22,839
Speaker 6: He's the biggest thing in the world.

711
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:29,200
Speaker 7: Then Harry Nielsen, who was unbelievably respected by the industry,

712
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:32,520
Speaker 7: and Alice took a picture with her. And that picture

713
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:35,279
Speaker 7: enabled me to sell just about anybody.

714
00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:50,279
Speaker 1: The White Soulfers that photo killed, We see what you did. No,

715
00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:51,080
Speaker 1: I'm only playing.

716
00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:53,600
Speaker 7: And I got her on hosting Midnight Special because if

717
00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:56,239
Speaker 7: John Lennon liked her, she had to be great. It

718
00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:59,880
Speaker 7: just thought it a circle of stuff. Then, you know,

719
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:02,840
Speaker 7: in those days it was much simpler. It was very different.

720
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:05,960
Speaker 7: There was nobody really knew who she was till she

721
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:08,200
Speaker 7: was famous. There was no Internet. You couldn't see how

722
00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:12,759
Speaker 7: bland she was. None of that stuff got revealed. It

723
00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:15,840
Speaker 7: was really about getting somebody to pay enough money to

724
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:17,080
Speaker 7: get her records on radio.

725
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:19,760
Speaker 1: But I mean, by that point a singer like Helen

726
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:25,400
Speaker 1: Ready had sort of prominent, so you know she there

727
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:26,760
Speaker 1: was a lane at least.

728
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:30,040
Speaker 6: For oh, definitely a lane. I've been a lane from

729
00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:30,680
Speaker 6: all the way back.

730
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:37,960
Speaker 7: The concept of of wholesomeness and not movement and non entertainer,

731
00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:39,920
Speaker 7: you know, non entertainment singers.

732
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:43,279
Speaker 1: What were her live concerts like I mean say.

733
00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:48,560
Speaker 7: I mean for me, they were boring because they weren't entertaining.

734
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:53,239
Speaker 7: But for her audience she had this beautiful voice. You know,

735
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:57,400
Speaker 7: there was people would hold hands and wear suits and ties.

736
00:40:57,120 --> 00:40:57,200
Speaker 2: And.

737
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:00,640
Speaker 1: By the times you had like five or six hits

738
00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:02,840
Speaker 1: under her belt. Then it was like she established it.

739
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:05,280
Speaker 7: But and she turned out to be a very good performer.

740
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:08,040
Speaker 7: I mean she played to her audience. She really developed,

741
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:13,400
Speaker 7: and she got a style and a comfort level with

742
00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:15,880
Speaker 7: the stage and with an audience. And I went to

743
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:17,759
Speaker 7: see her a few years after I stopped managing her,

744
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:21,680
Speaker 7: and it was really entertaining. I started Revere, she got

745
00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:22,840
Speaker 7: a little production.

746
00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:29,080
Speaker 1: In Okay, so the one thing well plus and also

747
00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:33,239
Speaker 1: talking your head off a few times I've met you.

748
00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:39,359
Speaker 1: I've come to discover now, of course super minch does

749
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:44,200
Speaker 1: touch on your your history, Teddy Pendograss. But then later

750
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:50,040
Speaker 1: I found out that you damn near managed everyone important

751
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:55,000
Speaker 1: in black music, which I mean Superman's kind of treated

752
00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:57,000
Speaker 1: like a small foot road like. Oh and by the way,

753
00:41:57,080 --> 00:41:59,360
Speaker 1: Rick James, no that.

754
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:02,040
Speaker 5: That listed the and the Superman. Just I copied that

755
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:04,440
Speaker 5: list and wrote it all down of everybody, and it

756
00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:08,680
Speaker 5: was like whoa Rick James and Stephanie Mills and Lisa Fisher,

757
00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:11,080
Speaker 5: which I'm sure was not happy about.

758
00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:13,839
Speaker 6: He was very he was she was the background singer.

759
00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:19,600
Speaker 1: So okay, So the thing I didn't know that was

760
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:27,960
Speaker 1: before before Okay, So Teddy went sold one seventy five,

761
00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:32,040
Speaker 1: seventy six. You're saying that most black shows that occurred

762
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:38,840
Speaker 1: were strictly for radio stations and DJs and not for pay.

763
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:42,799
Speaker 7: And I mean audience is paid. Artists didn't get paid.

764
00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:46,960
Speaker 7: There was an organization called the Black Promoters Association. I

765
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:50,200
Speaker 7: don't know if they still exist or not, but they

766
00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:54,040
Speaker 7: were sort of the enforcers. And they had a collection

767
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:56,719
Speaker 7: of promoters who worked with the radio stations and the

768
00:42:56,800 --> 00:43:01,920
Speaker 7: record companies, and they kept everybody in line. And it

769
00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:03,920
Speaker 7: was a it was a you know, it was a

770
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:07,279
Speaker 7: street business. It was Teddy's last manager before me had

771
00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:11,279
Speaker 7: been shot to death. It was a tough business and

772
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:14,200
Speaker 7: and they were making a lot of money and they

773
00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:14,719
Speaker 7: didn't want.

774
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:15,120
Speaker 1: To give it up.

775
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:16,920
Speaker 5: And that didn't scare you at all.

776
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:21,040
Speaker 6: You know, I never it's funny or did they send you?

777
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:23,200
Speaker 1: They sent you in the line of fire. And then

778
00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:25,600
Speaker 1: was like, oh, by the way, uh my last manager

779
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:29,920
Speaker 1: go so we'll get him, step Hey, you go get him.

780
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:35,680
Speaker 1: So you're saying like a cat, like, uh, let me

781
00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:39,319
Speaker 1: pick a random seventies like mac davis. Mac Davis could

782
00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:41,680
Speaker 1: go out and do whatever he wanted to do make

783
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:46,880
Speaker 1: some money. But Teddy went out strictly to ensure that

784
00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:48,759
Speaker 1: his record played on the radio. He was.

785
00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:53,240
Speaker 7: He was convinced by by the record company who profited

786
00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:55,560
Speaker 7: greatly by the record sales and made nothing on the road,

787
00:43:55,920 --> 00:43:58,040
Speaker 7: that the only way he was going to keep getting

788
00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:01,400
Speaker 7: hit records and keep getting basically the rented car that

789
00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:02,000
Speaker 7: they give him.

790
00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:06,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, how how would he make money? Because Gamble, Gamble

791
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:07,879
Speaker 1: and Huff are writing the songs.

792
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:10,279
Speaker 6: He lived a very simple life.

793
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:10,799
Speaker 1: He wasn't.

794
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:13,040
Speaker 7: There was no mansions in any of those guys' lives.

795
00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:15,600
Speaker 7: There were you know, you talked to the OJ's, you

796
00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:16,520
Speaker 7: talked to all these guys.

797
00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:18,200
Speaker 1: In the beginning, they were just working musicians.

798
00:44:18,239 --> 00:44:18,920
Speaker 6: They were working.

799
00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:22,800
Speaker 5: Musicians until when like when do you think for me?

800
00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:24,040
Speaker 6: With Teddy it was.

801
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:31,680
Speaker 7: It was the second solo album. That's about when we started.

802
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:36,120
Speaker 7: That's when we we we Our history was that we

803
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:40,640
Speaker 7: I I understood, but once I understood the chilling check

804
00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:42,680
Speaker 7: that we can't do this. So I booked them in

805
00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:47,239
Speaker 7: Radio City Musical and we got picketed and nobody wanted

806
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:50,640
Speaker 7: across the picket line. The Black Promoters Association picketed us.

807
00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:53,600
Speaker 1: So it was like al Haman and those guys are

808
00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:55,239
Speaker 1: part of it. Or was al Haman more like the

809
00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:55,799
Speaker 1: eighties and.

810
00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:57,239
Speaker 7: He was go to part of it, but he was

811
00:44:57,280 --> 00:44:59,160
Speaker 7: much more nutrient. He was the second wave, he was

812
00:44:59,840 --> 00:45:02,840
Speaker 7: the the first wave was and good guys. I actually

813
00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:05,839
Speaker 7: got friendly with most of the guys with Jesse Boseman's

814
00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:09,320
Speaker 7: who I love, great guy. I mean, it's still a

815
00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:11,360
Speaker 7: lot of respect from But that was their business and

816
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:13,600
Speaker 7: they were able to get away with it, and that's

817
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:16,120
Speaker 7: what they did. And so I said, I'm you know,

818
00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:18,600
Speaker 7: I'm gonna have no We're not doing this. And I

819
00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:22,719
Speaker 7: booked Teddy into a radio City and nobody wanted to

820
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:24,880
Speaker 7: cross the picket line. I mean, it got it was

821
00:45:25,239 --> 00:45:27,880
Speaker 7: pretty deep. Jesse Jackson came and picketed.

822
00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:30,640
Speaker 6: It was what it was deep.

823
00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:34,520
Speaker 7: So I knew I had to do business with him. Somehow,

824
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:38,560
Speaker 7: some way, we had to do business, and we ended

825
00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:42,760
Speaker 7: up making an arrangement with him. Then if Teddy played

826
00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:48,320
Speaker 7: a institutional building like Radio City that was where the

827
00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:51,400
Speaker 7: promoter owned the building, they would allow us to do

828
00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:52,520
Speaker 7: it as long as we paid.

829
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:52,879
Speaker 6: Him a fee.

830
00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:54,960
Speaker 1: So it's like the mafia.

831
00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:57,560
Speaker 7: Yeah, but every business, I mean, you know, try and

832
00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:00,880
Speaker 7: buy laundry in New York and then you're restaurant and

833
00:46:01,239 --> 00:46:04,520
Speaker 7: you know, it's still the same life works the same way.

834
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:06,200
Speaker 1: It just the way contribute to somebody.

835
00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:08,520
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, it always works that way. So that was

836
00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:10,000
Speaker 6: the way we sort of got out.

837
00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:12,680
Speaker 7: And then what we did was we just played those

838
00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:15,799
Speaker 7: kind of places and finally they came back to us

839
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:19,040
Speaker 7: and said, okay, we'll let you. My beef was money,

840
00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:23,680
Speaker 7: but it was also promotion. They didn't do anything, and

841
00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:27,080
Speaker 7: I wanted the shows promoted. So we finally made arrangement

842
00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:29,960
Speaker 7: that date we could take a white promoter who has

843
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:32,960
Speaker 7: been in the business, pair them with someone from the

844
00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:36,719
Speaker 7: Black Promoters Association, give them their fifty percent.

845
00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:39,600
Speaker 6: Of the date, but don't come, don't do anything.

846
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:43,880
Speaker 1: Right right, just leave us alone. So all those shows

847
00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:48,279
Speaker 1: that are you saying that that was the modus operandi

848
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:50,080
Speaker 1: for the average black show.

849
00:46:50,239 --> 00:46:52,439
Speaker 7: And then well what happened is then other people's earth

850
00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:55,440
Speaker 7: winded fire came on that highway. A lot of acts

851
00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:59,800
Speaker 7: started to follow that highway and everything started to So

852
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:02,920
Speaker 7: did this at the grade a little bit, and it

853
00:47:03,040 --> 00:47:05,759
Speaker 7: opened up. By the time I got to Rick James,

854
00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:07,000
Speaker 7: I didn't have to deal with it at all.

855
00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:09,160
Speaker 1: So with the exception of like James Brown, you're seeing,

856
00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:11,520
Speaker 1: everyone had to go through that funnel system.

857
00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:13,880
Speaker 6: I'm sure James Brown probably went through.

858
00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:14,160
Speaker 4: Well.

859
00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:17,359
Speaker 1: I know that he was kind of handling his own

860
00:47:17,440 --> 00:47:21,000
Speaker 1: business or whatnot. But that's it was great. That's what

861
00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:21,279
Speaker 1: it was.

862
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:23,200
Speaker 6: It was a childing circuit. It's just the way it was.

863
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:29,040
Speaker 1: Wow. I went I went to elementary school on in

864
00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:34,759
Speaker 1: Philadelphia at thirteen three thirteen Broad Street, which is right

865
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:36,400
Speaker 1: next door at the Philly International.

866
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:39,080
Speaker 6: So at that great bar across the street.

867
00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:40,920
Speaker 1: The name of that bar, I forget.

868
00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:43,000
Speaker 6: There was a great bar in the corner and everybody

869
00:47:43,080 --> 00:47:43,920
Speaker 6: hung at it, the.

870
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:45,440
Speaker 5: Former Philadelphia International.

871
00:47:46,040 --> 00:47:49,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, now it's a SLS hotel. Oh is that what

872
00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:49,600
Speaker 1: it is?

873
00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:49,799
Speaker 4: Though?

874
00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:55,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're about to build an SLS. But I could

875
00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:58,120
Speaker 1: time it perfectly, like and I could tell that he

876
00:47:58,239 --> 00:48:01,719
Speaker 1: might have been on CP time every time because I

877
00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:05,480
Speaker 1: could always I knew when teddypin the grass was outside

878
00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:09,719
Speaker 1: mm hmm. It was always like twelve twenty two, like

879
00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:13,280
Speaker 1: during lunch break, so between like third and sixth grade,

880
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:17,840
Speaker 1: like like clockwork, I could catch teddypin the grass right outside,

881
00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:22,759
Speaker 1: right outside of affiliateder like I've never seen a kind

882
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:27,320
Speaker 1: of this hard day's night fan mobbing situation. Wow. And

883
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:31,279
Speaker 1: he had a a well I assume it was a

884
00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:32,120
Speaker 1: rose voice or whatever.

885
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:36,680
Speaker 7: The white girls yeah with a license played Teddy rented

886
00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:38,960
Speaker 7: right that I think they.

887
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:44,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I just like that made an impression on me,

888
00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:45,880
Speaker 1: not like man one day, I want you want to

889
00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:53,200
Speaker 1: be a pill people. So I mean, but what I

890
00:48:53,320 --> 00:48:56,400
Speaker 1: know you can't get super personal of it. But I

891
00:48:56,480 --> 00:49:02,239
Speaker 1: mean the the heating stick idea of what a rock

892
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:06,600
Speaker 1: star was, I know that was that for Teddy Pa,

893
00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:14,920
Speaker 1: which I mean, how not bad did it get? How

894
00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:18,080
Speaker 1: did it how extreme?

895
00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:22,960
Speaker 7: Because now, but it's all a matter of levels. And

896
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:26,839
Speaker 7: Teddy was probably making more money than he ever thought

897
00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:28,600
Speaker 7: he'd ever make in his whole life, just by the

898
00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:32,080
Speaker 7: drippings from the side, you know he was. He's selling

899
00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:35,880
Speaker 7: millions of records. That's a lot of money. So if

900
00:49:35,920 --> 00:49:39,040
Speaker 7: a couple one hundred thousand maybe went off to him,

901
00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:41,840
Speaker 7: where another a white artist may have gotten a million.

902
00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:45,399
Speaker 7: If he's getting a couple of hundred thousand, that's big money.

903
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:50,279
Speaker 7: Because all you know is what you know, and you know.

904
00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:53,000
Speaker 7: So he was when I got involved, he was happy.

905
00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:55,120
Speaker 7: He had no problem with going and doing the dates

906
00:49:55,160 --> 00:49:57,800
Speaker 7: and not getting paid. It was my problem, not his problem.

907
00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:00,839
Speaker 7: He accepted it as that was the way of life,

908
00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:03,480
Speaker 7: and he was getting enough drippings to come in that

909
00:50:03,640 --> 00:50:05,640
Speaker 7: he felt like he was on top of the world.

910
00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:11,600
Speaker 1: So how are you able to orchestrate the women only concerts?

911
00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:11,880
Speaker 5: Like?

912
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:13,520
Speaker 1: Were their guards there to stop?

913
00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:14,000
Speaker 2: No?

914
00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:14,320
Speaker 6: No.

915
00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:17,920
Speaker 7: I I realized when I thought of it that I

916
00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:21,560
Speaker 7: could get sued if I didn't let guys in. And

917
00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:23,360
Speaker 7: every you know, everybody told me I couldn't do it

918
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:24,640
Speaker 7: because and I just said, if they want to buy

919
00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:26,960
Speaker 7: a ticket, I don't care if they buy a ticket

920
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:30,160
Speaker 7: and come in. I just want the twenty five million

921
00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:33,359
Speaker 7: people who aren't attending the concert to see for women only.

922
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:35,600
Speaker 6: I couldn't care if there's a guy in the place.

923
00:50:38,560 --> 00:50:42,360
Speaker 1: No, even though I think, but they made HBO and

924
00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:45,680
Speaker 1: it was like I think it was only cuts of women,

925
00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:47,120
Speaker 1: so I only thought.

926
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:47,920
Speaker 6: That's all they were.

927
00:50:49,480 --> 00:50:51,319
Speaker 1: It did make it. Yeah, No men came.

928
00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:52,400
Speaker 6: No men came at all.

929
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:55,400
Speaker 7: I mean they could have, but they were outside. We

930
00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:58,040
Speaker 7: had a lot of pimps outside waiting for their ladies to.

931
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:00,560
Speaker 6: The letout.

932
00:51:01,239 --> 00:51:04,200
Speaker 1: I have reason to believe that Teddy rocked a few

933
00:51:04,360 --> 00:51:08,080
Speaker 1: marriages in my family's, but my extended family.

934
00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:09,920
Speaker 7: The best part of those shows is we gave out

935
00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:13,600
Speaker 7: everybody chocolate Teddy Bear lollipops, so he go had to

936
00:51:13,680 --> 00:51:14,320
Speaker 7: like close.

937
00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:16,479
Speaker 6: The door and you're seeing them out in the audio

938
00:51:16,560 --> 00:51:25,160
Speaker 6: to grow up, clicking the lollipop and biting its head off. Teddy. Yeah,

939
00:51:25,400 --> 00:51:29,160
Speaker 6: patties a lot of patties on stage.

940
00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:32,800
Speaker 1: Did it ever bother him in the least? Or was

941
00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:33,960
Speaker 1: he just enjoying it?

942
00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:36,279
Speaker 6: He enjoyed it, Teddy was.

943
00:51:36,600 --> 00:51:38,840
Speaker 7: I had such a great time working with Teddy was

944
00:51:39,280 --> 00:51:41,400
Speaker 7: one of my you know, Alice for me is like

945
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:42,600
Speaker 7: an armor after Alice.

946
00:51:42,640 --> 00:51:47,719
Speaker 6: Teddy Teddy was, I was. He's my favorite music. That's

947
00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:48,799
Speaker 6: what I listened to at home.

948
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:50,840
Speaker 7: It's the only thing I play in my house for

949
00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:55,919
Speaker 7: the last fifteen years is Teddy. And he just loved

950
00:51:55,960 --> 00:51:56,840
Speaker 7: being that character.

951
00:51:56,960 --> 00:51:58,279
Speaker 6: I loved it was.

952
00:51:59,560 --> 00:52:01,640
Speaker 7: I used to have these great conversations with him. I

953
00:52:01,640 --> 00:52:05,000
Speaker 7: would show up and he say, oh shit, this is

954
00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:06,960
Speaker 7: the time, and I say, yeah, we called it that

955
00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:09,080
Speaker 7: don't be a schmuck conversations and.

956
00:52:09,160 --> 00:52:11,440
Speaker 6: I sort of shut the door and I go, man,

957
00:52:11,520 --> 00:52:14,759
Speaker 6: you're being a schmuck. Have I a schmuck again? And

958
00:52:15,520 --> 00:52:18,120
Speaker 6: I get it off my chest and we deal with it.

959
00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:18,719
Speaker 6: He was great.

960
00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:22,280
Speaker 7: You could you could talk, you know, with some artists,

961
00:52:22,320 --> 00:52:25,759
Speaker 7: you have to tiptoe around the issue. You have to

962
00:52:25,840 --> 00:52:27,399
Speaker 7: figure out a way to get to where you want

963
00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:29,400
Speaker 7: to go with him. You didn't have to tiptoe. I

964
00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:35,240
Speaker 7: could just tell him, you know, as as h fancy

965
00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:36,359
Speaker 7: as I could what I felt.

966
00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:39,440
Speaker 1: So what would be what would be an issue? Then?

967
00:52:39,480 --> 00:52:42,560
Speaker 7: Well, actually for women only came out of it. That's

968
00:52:42,600 --> 00:52:46,960
Speaker 7: how the concert happened. He played, I got really pissed

969
00:52:46,960 --> 00:52:48,960
Speaker 7: when I went and did the first Chiplin circuit show

970
00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:51,920
Speaker 7: with him. Really pissed me off, like, you can't let

971
00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:54,120
Speaker 7: this happen. That's when he told me his manager got killed.

972
00:52:54,680 --> 00:52:56,040
Speaker 7: And I said, you know, I don't give a shit.

973
00:52:56,080 --> 00:52:59,880
Speaker 7: I don't have kids, I don't care let him kill me,

974
00:53:00,320 --> 00:53:02,319
Speaker 7: but I'm not going to be part of this thing.

975
00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:03,840
Speaker 6: And he said, what do we do?

976
00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:05,480
Speaker 7: I said, I'm going to book you in the whitest

977
00:53:05,520 --> 00:53:11,759
Speaker 7: place I can find and fuck him excuse me, and

978
00:53:11,880 --> 00:53:14,200
Speaker 7: we're going. Uh So I booked him in the Roxy

979
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:19,400
Speaker 7: in l a, which very white bread, small club. I

980
00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:21,359
Speaker 7: don't think a black artist that ever played it. At

981
00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:26,040
Speaker 7: that point, we got a lot of death threats we

982
00:53:26,160 --> 00:53:29,600
Speaker 7: got we ended up getting FBI security there.

983
00:53:29,920 --> 00:53:33,080
Speaker 6: They for what the black Promoters Association.

984
00:53:33,239 --> 00:53:39,759
Speaker 7: Oh okay, I thought, so, you know, so, I'm like

985
00:53:39,960 --> 00:53:44,560
Speaker 7: risking my life to do this rock the Roxy. You're

986
00:53:44,560 --> 00:53:46,160
Speaker 7: not going to make any money in the Roxy. It's

987
00:53:46,200 --> 00:53:52,279
Speaker 7: two hundred seats. And I had only done one show

988
00:53:52,360 --> 00:53:55,640
Speaker 7: with him, right, And we get to the Roxy and

989
00:53:55,680 --> 00:53:58,839
Speaker 7: he does the whole show sitting on a stool. All

990
00:53:58,960 --> 00:54:01,360
Speaker 7: the women wanted to do was like grab him and

991
00:54:02,560 --> 00:54:05,800
Speaker 7: fucking brains. And he's sitting on a stool being this

992
00:54:05,960 --> 00:54:12,239
Speaker 7: really cool, really cool guy, like you know, and I

993
00:54:12,440 --> 00:54:16,040
Speaker 7: was getting furious, like furious, like I can't believe you're

994
00:54:16,080 --> 00:54:18,480
Speaker 7: not giving it up. The energy in this room is

995
00:54:18,560 --> 00:54:19,480
Speaker 7: so strong at you.

996
00:54:19,960 --> 00:54:22,960
Speaker 6: And you're just you're not reacting, you're not engaging, You're

997
00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:23,640
Speaker 6: not engaging it.

998
00:54:23,719 --> 00:54:25,239
Speaker 7: You're not giving it back to him, You're not doing

999
00:54:25,840 --> 00:54:27,759
Speaker 7: So I go upstairs and this is only my second

1000
00:54:27,800 --> 00:54:29,840
Speaker 7: show with him, and he's got these two security guys,

1001
00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:33,120
Speaker 7: one real big, one real small, and they really don't

1002
00:54:33,160 --> 00:54:35,200
Speaker 7: know me, and they tell me I got to wait.

1003
00:54:35,880 --> 00:54:38,600
Speaker 7: Teddy's getting, you know, changing, which really pisses me off

1004
00:54:38,680 --> 00:54:40,720
Speaker 7: to begin with because I'm used to immediate access.

1005
00:54:41,520 --> 00:54:46,160
Speaker 6: And then this PARADEI of women starts coming in and

1006
00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:47,880
Speaker 6: you know, a woman comes in and.

1007
00:54:47,880 --> 00:54:50,239
Speaker 7: I'm out there. It's fifteen minutes later. The next one

1008
00:54:50,360 --> 00:54:55,200
Speaker 7: comes in. Now it's two o'clock in the morning. I've

1009
00:54:55,280 --> 00:54:58,160
Speaker 7: risked my life. I hate the show and I'm sitting

1010
00:54:58,200 --> 00:54:58,680
Speaker 7: here at two.

1011
00:54:58,600 --> 00:55:02,080
Speaker 6: O'clock in the morning and I get in you mother

1012
00:55:02,239 --> 00:55:05,400
Speaker 6: the fucker, Who the fuck do you think you are?

1013
00:55:06,160 --> 00:55:09,759
Speaker 6: You know, I've risked my life for you to sit

1014
00:55:09,840 --> 00:55:13,160
Speaker 6: on a fucking stool and and like be cool, and

1015
00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:15,840
Speaker 6: then you make me wait till two o'clock in the morning,

1016
00:55:16,400 --> 00:55:19,160
Speaker 6: Go fuck yourself. And he said, hey, man, what do

1017
00:55:19,200 --> 00:55:21,480
Speaker 6: you expect from me? I'll tell you what to expect me.

1018
00:55:21,560 --> 00:55:24,600
Speaker 6: To get those women crazy, and let me be the

1019
00:55:24,680 --> 00:55:26,160
Speaker 6: only guy in the room when you're doing it. I

1020
00:55:26,200 --> 00:55:29,399
Speaker 6: will have the greatest time ever. And then I said,

1021
00:55:29,400 --> 00:55:32,200
Speaker 6: wait a second, let's do shows for women only. Well

1022
00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:34,880
Speaker 6: I do know that, And that was it came out

1023
00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:38,160
Speaker 6: of that moment. Don't be a conversation. And he said,

1024
00:55:38,200 --> 00:55:40,399
Speaker 6: can we do that? And I said, yeah, I'm sure

1025
00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:41,560
Speaker 6: we can do anything we want to do.

1026
00:55:41,719 --> 00:55:42,320
Speaker 1: Let's go do it.

1027
00:55:42,880 --> 00:55:43,000
Speaker 6: Well.

1028
00:55:43,040 --> 00:55:45,120
Speaker 1: I think before this point there used to always be

1029
00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:49,040
Speaker 1: two sets of shows, because even Sam Cook had the

1030
00:55:49,160 --> 00:55:55,000
Speaker 1: show that he did at the Kopa, the Dinner Shownight Midnight,

1031
00:55:55,160 --> 00:55:59,040
Speaker 1: do the you know, rebel Rousing Show, and James Brown Motown.

1032
00:55:59,200 --> 00:56:04,400
Speaker 1: Like I think maybe because perhaps Mark how Melvin, the

1033
00:56:04,400 --> 00:56:08,359
Speaker 1: Blue Notes sort of had to have dual shows as well,

1034
00:56:08,440 --> 00:56:11,640
Speaker 1: like you play certain places where it's like suit and time,

1035
00:56:12,120 --> 00:56:14,800
Speaker 1: you know, because I saw one of their concert tapes

1036
00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:18,200
Speaker 1: where I mean they were doing like Broadway Danny Rose

1037
00:56:18,280 --> 00:56:24,920
Speaker 1: and stuff, let us entertain you, like songs from Yeah.

1038
00:56:26,239 --> 00:56:26,279
Speaker 4: No.

1039
00:56:26,440 --> 00:56:30,839
Speaker 1: They were doing like magic Tricks and wow. I was like, really,

1040
00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:35,160
Speaker 1: I never knew how Blue Notes seeing the way we

1041
00:56:35,280 --> 00:56:40,640
Speaker 1: were seeing the sho now getting ready for the Josh. Yeah.

1042
00:56:40,680 --> 00:56:42,800
Speaker 1: But I mean just pretty much even James Brown, like

1043
00:56:42,920 --> 00:56:45,840
Speaker 1: star Time was like the hits, but then he do

1044
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:48,320
Speaker 1: some Sinatra stuff he do that's life and you know,

1045
00:56:48,520 --> 00:56:51,280
Speaker 1: like the I can be serious and play the copa.

1046
00:56:51,560 --> 00:56:53,000
Speaker 1: So maybe that was the mentality.

1047
00:56:53,160 --> 00:56:54,560
Speaker 6: I think he was just trying to be cool.

1048
00:56:55,040 --> 00:56:58,640
Speaker 1: So where the audience or the the demographics different as well,

1049
00:56:58,840 --> 00:57:02,360
Speaker 1: Like did he ever, Yeah, it was it was he

1050
00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:05,240
Speaker 1: started at the end to get some white audience.

1051
00:57:05,840 --> 00:57:06,920
Speaker 6: Once he got once.

1052
00:57:08,239 --> 00:57:11,200
Speaker 7: They the press finally started calling him the black Elvis,

1053
00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:14,280
Speaker 7: and that sort of attracted a lot of white women

1054
00:57:15,160 --> 00:57:17,720
Speaker 7: once they said black Elvis, but up till but never

1055
00:57:17,920 --> 00:57:21,439
Speaker 7: really was gigantic, But it was. It was every woman

1056
00:57:21,560 --> 00:57:21,960
Speaker 7: in town.

1057
00:57:22,200 --> 00:57:22,760
Speaker 6: I mean it was.

1058
00:57:23,480 --> 00:57:25,600
Speaker 7: It was fantastic and they had the greatest time. I

1059
00:57:25,680 --> 00:57:29,000
Speaker 7: mean it really it paid off. He was an entertainer

1060
00:57:29,040 --> 00:57:31,440
Speaker 7: who paid off. They went home exhausted.

1061
00:57:31,720 --> 00:57:34,200
Speaker 5: Let me ask you a personal question, because in the

1062
00:57:34,320 --> 00:57:36,720
Speaker 5: documentary some of your friends admit that you.

1063
00:57:37,120 --> 00:57:37,960
Speaker 6: Love the ladies.

1064
00:57:38,440 --> 00:57:42,800
Speaker 5: Do so how does the police police himself? Because if

1065
00:57:42,840 --> 00:57:45,520
Speaker 5: you were, you know, with these guys like Teddy and

1066
00:57:45,680 --> 00:57:48,400
Speaker 5: Alls and where women were everywhere, was there a moment

1067
00:57:48,440 --> 00:57:50,800
Speaker 5: when you had to go or maybe just three to

1068
00:57:50,920 --> 00:57:52,160
Speaker 5: night or just two?

1069
00:57:53,280 --> 00:58:00,240
Speaker 6: No, okay, I was just I was.

1070
00:58:01,520 --> 00:58:05,240
Speaker 7: I've always I've always been very direct. I try to

1071
00:58:05,320 --> 00:58:09,280
Speaker 7: always be honest. And in those days, I was overworking,

1072
00:58:09,920 --> 00:58:12,160
Speaker 7: you know, I was. That was all I had was

1073
00:58:12,240 --> 00:58:13,479
Speaker 7: my work. That's all I cared about.

1074
00:58:13,960 --> 00:58:17,800
Speaker 6: So there wasn't really time for relationships. So but I

1075
00:58:18,000 --> 00:58:20,120
Speaker 6: loved women and I love sex.

1076
00:58:20,480 --> 00:58:22,040
Speaker 5: Did you have any did you have some game?

1077
00:58:22,280 --> 00:58:22,360
Speaker 3: Well?

1078
00:58:22,440 --> 00:58:25,640
Speaker 6: So what not great game? Not great game, but great

1079
00:58:25,720 --> 00:58:28,720
Speaker 6: access Because I had I was in the midst of

1080
00:58:28,760 --> 00:58:30,640
Speaker 6: all the stars. Always, I was standing next to the

1081
00:58:30,680 --> 00:58:32,040
Speaker 6: people they wanted to be next to.

1082
00:58:32,440 --> 00:58:34,600
Speaker 7: Everybody wanted to be with the lead singer of a band.

1083
00:58:35,040 --> 00:58:38,240
Speaker 7: And so I said to myself, how can I I

1084
00:58:38,480 --> 00:58:41,840
Speaker 7: don't have the time to romance someone. You know, it's

1085
00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:44,120
Speaker 7: like it's eleven thirty, I got to get up at six.

1086
00:58:44,320 --> 00:58:45,360
Speaker 6: I'm in a hotel room.

1087
00:58:45,760 --> 00:58:47,360
Speaker 7: I don't have time to like, I love you, I

1088
00:58:47,480 --> 00:58:50,240
Speaker 7: love you, And it's not honest. Actually, everybody else on

1089
00:58:50,360 --> 00:58:52,840
Speaker 7: the road is like telling these girls that they know

1090
00:58:52,960 --> 00:58:55,960
Speaker 7: they're never going to see again how much they love them.

1091
00:58:56,400 --> 00:58:58,720
Speaker 6: Just to get him into the bed. And that's yeah.

1092
00:58:58,720 --> 00:59:00,640
Speaker 7: And I said, I can't do that. So I said,

1093
00:59:00,840 --> 00:59:02,880
Speaker 7: what do I do? I said, well, what's my strength.

1094
00:59:03,520 --> 00:59:05,920
Speaker 7: My strength is that I can get these women a

1095
00:59:06,000 --> 00:59:09,200
Speaker 7: backstage pass to meet the lead singer. So I made

1096
00:59:09,280 --> 00:59:12,040
Speaker 7: up a T shirt that said, no head no backstage

1097
00:59:12,080 --> 00:59:15,800
Speaker 7: pass was honest. You wanted great, you don't want it great,

1098
00:59:16,240 --> 00:59:17,320
Speaker 7: no problem at all.

1099
00:59:19,600 --> 00:59:21,960
Speaker 5: It was head based, which that was what stopped you

1100
00:59:22,000 --> 00:59:25,360
Speaker 5: from having so many thoughts thought babies, Yeah, okay, oh

1101
00:59:25,520 --> 00:59:26,440
Speaker 5: that was very smart.

1102
00:59:27,400 --> 00:59:34,520
Speaker 6: It eliminated the down side in fulfill the upside. It

1103
00:59:34,640 --> 00:59:36,200
Speaker 6: was sort of honest right to the floor.

1104
00:59:41,800 --> 00:59:46,000
Speaker 1: So shut I got, I gotta I gotta ask uh,

1105
00:59:46,880 --> 00:59:50,720
Speaker 1: because I remember again as a Philadelphian, I remember it

1106
00:59:50,840 --> 00:59:57,000
Speaker 1: so well. But can you take us through the like

1107
00:59:57,920 --> 01:00:01,080
Speaker 1: I believe, like March of eighty two when you got

1108
01:00:01,200 --> 01:00:02,680
Speaker 1: that phone call, like.

1109
01:00:02,840 --> 01:00:06,720
Speaker 6: What I got a phone call that Teddy had his accident.

1110
01:00:07,600 --> 01:00:08,480
Speaker 1: Do you still remember it?

1111
01:00:08,560 --> 01:00:10,640
Speaker 6: Like, oh, like it was yesterday. I remember.

1112
01:00:10,920 --> 01:00:14,000
Speaker 7: I don't remember getting to Philly. I remember the elevated

1113
01:00:14,280 --> 01:00:19,560
Speaker 7: the elevated door in the hospital opening, and uh, Sedonia

1114
01:00:19,640 --> 01:00:24,440
Speaker 7: Walker was there who ran Teddy's office, and Karen who

1115
01:00:24,600 --> 01:00:26,640
Speaker 7: was I don't know if she was his wife at

1116
01:00:26,680 --> 01:00:28,320
Speaker 7: that point, she had been a singer in the show.

1117
01:00:29,320 --> 01:00:32,680
Speaker 7: She was there, Teddy's mom, who's still alive and just

1118
01:00:32,760 --> 01:00:35,960
Speaker 7: an amazing wow. I mean like they should build a

1119
01:00:36,000 --> 01:00:40,360
Speaker 7: statue to her. She is a remarkable woman. And the

1120
01:00:40,480 --> 01:00:44,680
Speaker 7: doctor because they had called him that the doors opening

1121
01:00:44,880 --> 01:00:47,640
Speaker 7: and they said, mister the doctor and mister Gordon's lad

1122
01:00:47,680 --> 01:00:52,520
Speaker 7: you're here. Teddy is never going to walk again. We're

1123
01:00:52,560 --> 01:00:54,040
Speaker 7: not sure if he's going to live again or not,

1124
01:00:54,240 --> 01:00:57,280
Speaker 7: but it's really important in his recovery for us to

1125
01:00:57,440 --> 01:01:00,840
Speaker 7: tell him rapidly that he's not going to walk again.

1126
01:01:01,360 --> 01:01:04,200
Speaker 7: We found that that's really part of the way if

1127
01:01:04,240 --> 01:01:06,880
Speaker 7: he's going to come through this thing. He's got to

1128
01:01:06,960 --> 01:01:07,440
Speaker 7: know it now.

1129
01:01:08,200 --> 01:01:09,200
Speaker 1: And why was that?

1130
01:01:09,560 --> 01:01:12,240
Speaker 7: I have no idea and everybody like they just wanted

1131
01:01:12,280 --> 01:01:15,080
Speaker 7: you to put it in this instantly bam, and they

1132
01:01:15,120 --> 01:01:16,520
Speaker 7: said no, and we kill all.

1133
01:01:16,440 --> 01:01:18,920
Speaker 6: Hopes, so you know, so it's reality and you know

1134
01:01:18,960 --> 01:01:20,760
Speaker 6: where you're going to kill the spirit though.

1135
01:01:21,360 --> 01:01:26,080
Speaker 7: You know he's strapped to a table that they flip

1136
01:01:26,160 --> 01:01:28,200
Speaker 7: every ten minutes. Yeah, I saw that device like that

1137
01:01:28,560 --> 01:01:31,880
Speaker 7: and all he could do is blink. That was the

1138
01:01:32,000 --> 01:01:34,240
Speaker 7: only you know, like, can you can you hear me?

1139
01:01:34,360 --> 01:01:38,000
Speaker 7: Teddy blink once, yes, twice no, and he blink and

1140
01:01:38,040 --> 01:01:40,959
Speaker 7: then they'd flip him every ten minutes, and they said,

1141
01:01:41,520 --> 01:01:44,080
Speaker 7: and everybody felt that you should be part of the

1142
01:01:44,120 --> 01:01:47,680
Speaker 7: team to tell him. And within sixty seconds, I'm in

1143
01:01:47,760 --> 01:01:49,440
Speaker 7: his room telling the guy that he's never going to

1144
01:01:49,520 --> 01:01:52,000
Speaker 7: walk again. It was a guy I love, I mean

1145
01:01:52,440 --> 01:01:59,320
Speaker 7: love Teddy. I can't I still love him. Amazing, just

1146
01:01:59,360 --> 01:02:03,720
Speaker 7: an amazing you know. He gave me the trust. Not easy,

1147
01:02:05,560 --> 01:02:10,640
Speaker 7: really not easy, and so that was a pretty traumatic moment.

1148
01:02:10,680 --> 01:02:15,520
Speaker 7: And I went and he had some children. I didn't

1149
01:02:15,560 --> 01:02:18,200
Speaker 7: know how many, because Teddy was he didn't wear the

1150
01:02:18,240 --> 01:02:26,200
Speaker 7: same T shirt I did. And he spent everything he had,

1151
01:02:28,680 --> 01:02:30,360
Speaker 7: no matter what how much he made, he spent it.

1152
01:02:30,800 --> 01:02:32,480
Speaker 7: So I knew there was no money to take care

1153
01:02:32,520 --> 01:02:35,800
Speaker 7: of everybody. So I decided I had to attach myself

1154
01:02:35,880 --> 01:02:38,240
Speaker 7: emotionally from this. The doctors would take care of him,

1155
01:02:38,720 --> 01:02:41,600
Speaker 7: I would, I would figure out how to take care

1156
01:02:41,640 --> 01:02:45,320
Speaker 7: of his family. So there was a beer company that

1157
01:02:45,440 --> 01:02:48,960
Speaker 7: had been sponsoring us, who will go unnamed, and I

1158
01:02:49,080 --> 01:02:52,240
Speaker 7: called him up and I explained what happened and told

1159
01:02:52,320 --> 01:02:54,040
Speaker 7: him about the kids, and they agreed to put some

1160
01:02:54,120 --> 01:02:58,280
Speaker 7: money into a trust fund, sizeable trust fund and get

1161
01:02:58,320 --> 01:03:01,400
Speaker 7: the goodwill for the beer company and help Teddy's family

1162
01:03:01,520 --> 01:03:06,400
Speaker 7: and wow, And I thought, okay, got it done with,

1163
01:03:06,560 --> 01:03:08,560
Speaker 7: Like I think a million dollars or two million dollars.

1164
01:03:09,000 --> 01:03:12,600
Speaker 7: Go to sleep, wake up in the morning, get the newspaper.

1165
01:03:14,280 --> 01:03:16,000
Speaker 7: The girl in the car with Teddy was a guy

1166
01:03:17,280 --> 01:03:19,520
Speaker 7: front page story, so I knew I would never hear

1167
01:03:19,560 --> 01:03:22,600
Speaker 7: from the beer company ever again, which I never did.

1168
01:03:22,760 --> 01:03:26,080
Speaker 1: So they revealed that in the daily news front page. Yeah, yeah,

1169
01:03:26,160 --> 01:03:28,720
Speaker 1: I remember, I mean I was really young.

1170
01:03:29,080 --> 01:03:31,320
Speaker 2: The reason why I remember my mother she was I mean,

1171
01:03:31,360 --> 01:03:34,320
Speaker 2: she loved him, and that was one of the first times,

1172
01:03:34,760 --> 01:03:37,560
Speaker 2: like with the celebrity. I remember seeing my mother cry

1173
01:03:37,800 --> 01:03:41,360
Speaker 2: like I remember her when the news broke. I mean

1174
01:03:41,400 --> 01:03:42,480
Speaker 2: I was like three four years old.

1175
01:03:42,800 --> 01:03:43,640
Speaker 1: It was crying.

1176
01:03:43,920 --> 01:03:47,280
Speaker 7: His connection to his audience. I've never seen a connection

1177
01:03:47,440 --> 01:03:50,280
Speaker 7: like he had to his audience. To these women, they

1178
01:03:50,400 --> 01:03:52,800
Speaker 7: really felt that well, he was one of the few

1179
01:03:52,920 --> 01:03:53,640
Speaker 7: he was there.

1180
01:03:53,840 --> 01:03:54,720
Speaker 6: You know, each one.

1181
01:03:54,680 --> 01:04:00,440
Speaker 7: Felt personally like he was their lover, their son, their husband.

1182
01:04:00,760 --> 01:04:02,280
Speaker 7: It was really remarkable relations.

1183
01:04:02,400 --> 01:04:04,240
Speaker 1: It was this very I mean he was such a

1184
01:04:04,880 --> 01:04:09,480
Speaker 1: masculine figure. I mean not saying that, you know the answer.

1185
01:04:09,520 --> 01:04:12,440
Speaker 7: Worst man I ever saw him, My biggest presence I've

1186
01:04:12,480 --> 01:04:14,400
Speaker 7: ever seen. I mean he walked in a room and.

1187
01:04:14,680 --> 01:04:16,760
Speaker 1: Was like wow, not for nothing.

1188
01:04:16,880 --> 01:04:18,680
Speaker 5: I remember as his album when I was a little girl,

1189
01:04:18,680 --> 01:04:20,320
Speaker 5: and that was the only album that I knew, and

1190
01:04:20,360 --> 01:04:21,800
Speaker 5: I used to sing and perform it in front of

1191
01:04:21,880 --> 01:04:25,400
Speaker 5: my my family and friend. So you read about that

1192
01:04:25,520 --> 01:04:26,040
Speaker 5: all ages.

1193
01:04:26,240 --> 01:04:28,800
Speaker 6: So I wake up in that story is in the newspaper.

1194
01:04:29,360 --> 01:04:31,480
Speaker 1: So as a manager, how what do you do?

1195
01:04:31,640 --> 01:04:31,800
Speaker 4: Then?

1196
01:04:31,920 --> 01:04:31,960
Speaker 6: Like?

1197
01:04:32,800 --> 01:04:33,720
Speaker 1: So what I did then?

1198
01:04:33,840 --> 01:04:40,400
Speaker 6: And it I called missus pendergrass Ida.

1199
01:04:41,880 --> 01:04:44,120
Speaker 7: And I said, I think we I think we have

1200
01:04:44,200 --> 01:04:47,360
Speaker 7: a problem. I don't think the beer Company's going to

1201
01:04:47,440 --> 01:04:49,920
Speaker 7: do what I said they were going to do. Can

1202
01:04:50,000 --> 01:04:51,640
Speaker 7: I come out to the house and go through all

1203
01:04:51,680 --> 01:04:53,720
Speaker 7: the tapes and see if I can find maybe there's

1204
01:04:53,760 --> 01:04:57,360
Speaker 7: some songs that Teddy's done that haven't been released, and

1205
01:04:57,440 --> 01:04:59,960
Speaker 7: I can get someone to pay to put him out.

1206
01:05:00,040 --> 01:05:05,560
Speaker 7: I found an album's worth of material and the rest

1207
01:05:05,600 --> 01:05:07,560
Speaker 7: of the story is almost too ugly to tell, but

1208
01:05:07,640 --> 01:05:11,480
Speaker 7: we got him some money. He was recording for a

1209
01:05:11,560 --> 01:05:16,400
Speaker 7: record company. I went to the record company that distributed

1210
01:05:16,440 --> 01:05:21,240
Speaker 7: their record company, CBS correct CBS, and they were CBS

1211
01:05:21,360 --> 01:05:23,280
Speaker 7: agreed to give me a million dollars for Teddy for

1212
01:05:23,360 --> 01:05:27,720
Speaker 7: the tapes. But but they said they couldn't pay it

1213
01:05:27,760 --> 01:05:30,160
Speaker 7: to us directly. Teddy was signed to p I R.

1214
01:05:31,120 --> 01:05:33,360
Speaker 7: They had to give it the p I R. So

1215
01:05:33,520 --> 01:05:35,880
Speaker 7: I took Teddy's mom and the two kids that I

1216
01:05:35,960 --> 01:05:40,080
Speaker 7: knew of to gamble on Huff's office. I remember sitting

1217
01:05:40,120 --> 01:05:43,880
Speaker 7: in the chair was it was always dramatic to sit

1218
01:05:44,000 --> 01:05:46,120
Speaker 7: there because they sat.

1219
01:05:46,000 --> 01:05:50,880
Speaker 6: In two thrones and behind them were all the black militants,

1220
01:05:52,080 --> 01:05:55,520
Speaker 6: all of them. All of them talked about killing people

1221
01:05:55,640 --> 01:05:55,840
Speaker 6: like me.

1222
01:05:56,800 --> 01:05:58,320
Speaker 1: You didn't have a good cozy relationship.

1223
01:05:58,360 --> 01:06:02,680
Speaker 6: It wasn't the war it's place to be. And told

1224
01:06:02,720 --> 01:06:03,440
Speaker 6: them what I had done.

1225
01:06:03,440 --> 01:06:05,560
Speaker 7: They got very mad that I went to CBS behind

1226
01:06:05,600 --> 01:06:09,720
Speaker 7: their back, but they did finally agree that they would

1227
01:06:09,960 --> 01:06:12,400
Speaker 7: get the check and give it to Teddy. And they

1228
01:06:12,440 --> 01:06:14,160
Speaker 7: did get the check and they gave part of it

1229
01:06:14,280 --> 01:06:17,760
Speaker 7: to Teddy, so that saved us for a while, and.

1230
01:06:19,520 --> 01:06:23,160
Speaker 6: Then I had it. In the contract there was a

1231
01:06:23,240 --> 01:06:27,160
Speaker 6: soundtrack clause that he could do one album not on

1232
01:06:27,280 --> 01:06:29,280
Speaker 6: p I R if it was a soundtrack of a

1233
01:06:29,360 --> 01:06:33,400
Speaker 6: movie Super one. Yeah. So I went to I went

1234
01:06:33,520 --> 01:06:36,160
Speaker 6: to did you work on Super One?

1235
01:06:36,480 --> 01:06:38,800
Speaker 1: No? I just know that. Yeah, I I've never seen

1236
01:06:38,840 --> 01:06:40,600
Speaker 1: the movie, but I haven't record.

1237
01:06:40,520 --> 01:06:42,439
Speaker 6: I worked on that. That was a barbon Worth movie.

1238
01:06:43,440 --> 01:06:45,600
Speaker 1: Anyway, I never know the movie ever came out.

1239
01:06:45,640 --> 01:06:49,640
Speaker 6: I just yeah, So I made this movie.

1240
01:06:49,640 --> 01:06:52,960
Speaker 7: I satted a film company, made a movie called Choose Me,

1241
01:06:55,000 --> 01:06:57,760
Speaker 7: and Teddy got the sound got an advanced from a

1242
01:06:57,840 --> 01:07:00,680
Speaker 7: lecture for the soundtrack, and that's to what put him

1243
01:07:00,720 --> 01:07:03,440
Speaker 7: on straightened out, took care of the kids, took care

1244
01:07:03,480 --> 01:07:03,880
Speaker 7: of the mom.

1245
01:07:04,360 --> 01:07:06,280
Speaker 2: So by the time you guys own electure when he

1246
01:07:06,400 --> 01:07:10,240
Speaker 2: did like the Joy album, that were things like good.

1247
01:07:10,600 --> 01:07:12,640
Speaker 7: Things yes, because because the Electra stepped up to the

1248
01:07:12,720 --> 01:07:16,080
Speaker 7: line and gave him, uh, there was a fellow named

1249
01:07:16,120 --> 01:07:19,800
Speaker 7: Bob kras Now, and he had just taken over Electra

1250
01:07:20,560 --> 01:07:29,120
Speaker 7: and I had promised Teddy that if he did something

1251
01:07:30,080 --> 01:07:34,400
Speaker 7: legally that I could get him a million dollars. And

1252
01:07:34,560 --> 01:07:37,439
Speaker 7: he did it and the guy renegged on a million

1253
01:07:37,520 --> 01:07:43,320
Speaker 7: dollars at CBS Walter after this, this is the second

1254
01:07:43,400 --> 01:07:47,360
Speaker 7: part of the incident, and I didn't know what to do.

1255
01:07:47,720 --> 01:07:51,720
Speaker 7: You know, Teddy's lying there still. I promised him a

1256
01:07:51,760 --> 01:07:54,280
Speaker 7: million dollars. I got him to go against some of

1257
01:07:54,360 --> 01:07:58,000
Speaker 7: his what he considered his best friends, and I wasn't

1258
01:07:58,040 --> 01:08:00,120
Speaker 7: bringing back the million dollars. And I didn't have a

1259
01:08:00,200 --> 01:08:02,040
Speaker 7: million dollars or I would have given it to him.

1260
01:08:02,800 --> 01:08:05,280
Speaker 7: And I went to Bob Krasnow's office and I told

1261
01:08:05,360 --> 01:08:07,919
Speaker 7: him the story and he said to me, is Teddy

1262
01:08:08,000 --> 01:08:12,920
Speaker 7: gonna live? And I said I don't know, and he said, well,

1263
01:08:13,320 --> 01:08:15,040
Speaker 7: I can just do me a favor.

1264
01:08:15,880 --> 01:08:16,519
Speaker 6: If he dies.

1265
01:08:17,560 --> 01:08:20,479
Speaker 7: I need to have a tape in my file of

1266
01:08:20,640 --> 01:08:23,719
Speaker 7: him doing something, and I need a script of a movie.

1267
01:08:24,120 --> 01:08:26,800
Speaker 6: You don't have to make the movie. Doesn't that be him?

1268
01:08:26,840 --> 01:08:29,680
Speaker 7: But I got to have my ass covered, so I

1269
01:08:29,840 --> 01:08:32,560
Speaker 7: like the life rights. So I went to Luther and

1270
01:08:32,760 --> 01:08:35,360
Speaker 7: I told him and I said, can you make yourself

1271
01:08:35,439 --> 01:08:39,639
Speaker 7: sound like Teddy? And get me a tape? And he wrote,

1272
01:08:39,720 --> 01:08:42,519
Speaker 7: choose Me, Luthor. He wrote the song and he did

1273
01:08:42,640 --> 01:08:45,519
Speaker 7: like twenty generations, removed the noise in the background. But

1274
01:08:45,640 --> 01:08:48,200
Speaker 7: we had a tape up choose Me that's sort of

1275
01:08:48,280 --> 01:08:50,960
Speaker 7: sated like Teddy. And I went to a filmmaker I

1276
01:08:51,040 --> 01:08:54,200
Speaker 7: had worked with, a guy named Alan Rudolph, and I said,

1277
01:08:54,680 --> 01:08:56,320
Speaker 7: would you write a script for me? When never going

1278
01:08:56,360 --> 01:08:58,240
Speaker 7: to make the movie? But I told him the story

1279
01:08:58,680 --> 01:09:00,280
Speaker 7: and he wrote the script. So we got the money

1280
01:09:01,160 --> 01:09:02,720
Speaker 7: and I thought everything was pretty good.

1281
01:09:02,800 --> 01:09:04,160
Speaker 6: Teddy was rocket. And then now when.

1282
01:09:04,120 --> 01:09:06,439
Speaker 7: Rudolf called me up about a year later, he said,

1283
01:09:06,880 --> 01:09:09,000
Speaker 7: now I need a favor and I said, what's that?

1284
01:09:09,040 --> 01:09:10,719
Speaker 7: And he said, I want to make the movie.

1285
01:09:19,000 --> 01:09:19,439
Speaker 6: So I would.

1286
01:09:19,600 --> 01:09:24,160
Speaker 7: I wouldn't sold my soul to Chris Blackwell, who would

1287
01:09:24,200 --> 01:09:29,360
Speaker 7: always who had always wanted to meet a uh start

1288
01:09:29,400 --> 01:09:31,479
Speaker 7: a film company for a partner with me, because I

1289
01:09:31,600 --> 01:09:33,479
Speaker 7: was I had won the con Film Festival. I was

1290
01:09:33,680 --> 01:09:37,080
Speaker 7: doing pretty good, and but I knew that he had

1291
01:09:37,120 --> 01:09:40,400
Speaker 7: a bad reputation as as you know, a lot of

1292
01:09:40,439 --> 01:09:42,840
Speaker 7: people who had been with him had been burned. And

1293
01:09:44,120 --> 01:09:47,599
Speaker 7: but I said, listen, I know you're sort of devilish,

1294
01:09:47,640 --> 01:09:48,760
Speaker 7: but I will sell my soul to you.

1295
01:09:50,240 --> 01:09:54,400
Speaker 1: I'm always honest against my greater and and he.

1296
01:09:54,400 --> 01:09:55,960
Speaker 7: Said, I know people talk about it. And I said,

1297
01:09:56,000 --> 01:09:58,519
Speaker 7: but I need a million dollars to make this movie.

1298
01:09:59,080 --> 01:10:00,760
Speaker 7: I know you have a rec good company, but you

1299
01:10:00,840 --> 01:10:03,680
Speaker 7: can't get the soundtrack. But I'll make it up to

1300
01:10:03,760 --> 01:10:07,160
Speaker 7: you somehow, and I'll partner with him, will do great.

1301
01:10:07,200 --> 01:10:09,720
Speaker 7: And I thought that I owned the live films and

1302
01:10:09,920 --> 01:10:12,960
Speaker 7: Choose Me was the first movie Electric got the soundtrack

1303
01:10:13,000 --> 01:10:13,720
Speaker 7: with Teddy.

1304
01:10:15,280 --> 01:10:19,720
Speaker 1: And wow, here we are, so wow, I'm noticing that,

1305
01:10:20,000 --> 01:10:24,479
Speaker 1: like you're rolling alone in the situation. Yeah, but I

1306
01:10:24,760 --> 01:10:30,560
Speaker 1: know the business was dangerous in the seventies, and I

1307
01:10:30,600 --> 01:10:33,280
Speaker 1: mean the sixties, seventies and eighties because there was mod run.

1308
01:10:34,520 --> 01:10:39,439
Speaker 1: I mean, how did you get out unscathed? I don't know.

1309
01:10:39,439 --> 01:10:42,960
Speaker 6: If I am ut scathing, what is your most alive?

1310
01:10:43,280 --> 01:10:45,439
Speaker 6: I would say my scariest What was your most Like

1311
01:10:45,560 --> 01:10:50,400
Speaker 6: you're scathing, I would say my scariest moment. And I'll

1312
01:10:50,479 --> 01:10:52,720
Speaker 6: leave the names of the people out. But my only

1313
01:10:52,880 --> 01:10:57,480
Speaker 6: real brush, the Black Promoters Association never really.

1314
01:10:57,280 --> 01:10:58,800
Speaker 1: Came after me Hardy.

1315
01:10:58,840 --> 01:11:00,599
Speaker 7: It was never a moment where I I'm not going

1316
01:11:00,640 --> 01:11:03,080
Speaker 7: to live anymore. I had one second of that. One

1317
01:11:03,120 --> 01:11:04,920
Speaker 7: guy put a gun to my head, but I knew

1318
01:11:04,960 --> 01:11:06,840
Speaker 7: he wasn't going to use it. I just knew he

1319
01:11:07,000 --> 01:11:09,080
Speaker 7: was too high profile. He wasn't going to shoot me.

1320
01:11:09,360 --> 01:11:10,439
Speaker 7: So I wasn't even scared.

1321
01:11:10,439 --> 01:11:11,599
Speaker 1: It was just like quite cool.

1322
01:11:11,720 --> 01:11:15,120
Speaker 7: Yeah, But then I was. This is years later. I

1323
01:11:15,240 --> 01:11:17,639
Speaker 7: was in my apartment in New York. It was when

1324
01:11:17,680 --> 01:11:19,880
Speaker 7: Teddy had his accident. I moved to New York for

1325
01:11:20,200 --> 01:11:22,400
Speaker 7: two years, and I went down to Philly every week

1326
01:11:22,479 --> 01:11:26,320
Speaker 7: to see him. And I had taken Bob Ethern, who

1327
01:11:26,320 --> 01:11:29,400
Speaker 7: produced Alice's, his apartment in New York. He let me

1328
01:11:29,520 --> 01:11:32,160
Speaker 7: use for two years, and there was a little phone

1329
01:11:32,200 --> 01:11:33,880
Speaker 7: on the side of the bed, a red phone that

1330
01:11:34,120 --> 01:11:36,640
Speaker 7: never rang. I didn't know the number. I have no

1331
01:11:36,720 --> 01:11:38,680
Speaker 7: idea what he used it for, don't want to know.

1332
01:11:39,600 --> 01:11:46,160
Speaker 7: And one day it rang and Hello, shep Gordon. Yeah,

1333
01:11:47,840 --> 01:11:50,800
Speaker 7: meet me at the corner of this really heavy voice.

1334
01:11:51,640 --> 01:11:54,559
Speaker 7: You need to meet me at the corner, Okay, hang

1335
01:11:54,680 --> 01:11:58,280
Speaker 7: up the phone, I'll go call the next day, really heavy,

1336
01:11:58,760 --> 01:12:03,479
Speaker 7: like heavy, and that I hired two x cops to

1337
01:12:03,600 --> 01:12:06,240
Speaker 7: be with me twenty four hours a day. You know,

1338
01:12:06,400 --> 01:12:07,519
Speaker 7: how did you get this number?

1339
01:12:07,600 --> 01:12:08,320
Speaker 6: A how did you know?

1340
01:12:08,400 --> 01:12:11,800
Speaker 7: I was answering, he knew where my office was, and

1341
01:12:11,920 --> 01:12:15,720
Speaker 7: he had that voice? Was this was serious Italian kind

1342
01:12:15,760 --> 01:12:18,000
Speaker 7: of you know, a soprano's voice.

1343
01:12:18,280 --> 01:12:18,400
Speaker 4: Right.

1344
01:12:19,160 --> 01:12:23,200
Speaker 7: And the next day I get a phone call from

1345
01:12:23,240 --> 01:12:25,960
Speaker 7: a guy that I had met a few times who

1346
01:12:26,320 --> 01:12:30,600
Speaker 7: everyone had told me was connected, mafia connected, and he

1347
01:12:30,680 --> 01:12:32,120
Speaker 7: calls me up. I guess I could say his name

1348
01:12:32,120 --> 01:12:34,800
Speaker 7: because I think he's dead. Tommy Fastola, who ended up

1349
01:12:34,840 --> 01:12:37,960
Speaker 7: going to jail for life for beating up a record

1350
01:12:38,000 --> 01:12:38,559
Speaker 7: company guy.

1351
01:12:39,240 --> 01:12:43,679
Speaker 6: And he says, hey, ship bet you doing great, Tommy.

1352
01:12:44,560 --> 01:12:46,759
Speaker 6: How'd you get my number? He said, oh, we got friends.

1353
01:12:46,800 --> 01:12:49,160
Speaker 6: We got friends. And he called on the same phone.

1354
01:12:49,080 --> 01:12:52,000
Speaker 7: Right right right, and he says, you know how lucky

1355
01:12:52,080 --> 01:12:54,360
Speaker 7: you are? And I said, what do you mean, Tommy?

1356
01:12:54,360 --> 01:12:58,400
Speaker 7: He says, so, I'm having breakfast this morning with the guys. Now,

1357
01:12:58,479 --> 01:13:00,360
Speaker 7: one of the guys says I got to leave early,

1358
01:13:00,560 --> 01:13:02,599
Speaker 7: and I says to him, boy, do you gotta leave early?

1359
01:13:03,240 --> 01:13:05,519
Speaker 7: I gotta go bump this guy off. Shep gordon up

1360
01:13:05,600 --> 01:13:11,760
Speaker 7: then wow, and he said, you can't bump the guy off.

1361
01:13:11,840 --> 01:13:12,360
Speaker 1: He's with me.

1362
01:13:13,320 --> 01:13:15,599
Speaker 7: And I'm like now thinking to myself, which is worse,

1363
01:13:15,640 --> 01:13:16,559
Speaker 7: getting bumped off of.

1364
01:13:16,640 --> 01:13:17,280
Speaker 6: Being with him.

1365
01:13:17,400 --> 01:13:18,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, right.

1366
01:13:19,960 --> 01:13:21,360
Speaker 6: Exactly, he's with me.

1367
01:13:21,479 --> 01:13:24,559
Speaker 7: You can't do that, And he says, well, the other

1368
01:13:24,600 --> 01:13:26,439
Speaker 7: guy's sad too, So I can tell the story, he said,

1369
01:13:27,040 --> 01:13:29,479
Speaker 7: So you tell you what, kid, meet me at Moish's office.

1370
01:13:29,520 --> 01:13:32,280
Speaker 7: This afternoon at two, Mois was Marris leaving.

1371
01:13:32,720 --> 01:13:32,920
Speaker 5: Ah.

1372
01:13:35,479 --> 01:13:37,400
Speaker 7: So I go up to Marris Levy's office, who I'd

1373
01:13:37,400 --> 01:13:41,880
Speaker 7: never met before with Tommy. He tells the story and Morris.

1374
01:13:41,560 --> 01:13:44,080
Speaker 6: Says, you're a lucky kid to have Tommy on your side.

1375
01:13:44,520 --> 01:13:46,160
Speaker 6: You know that. I said, yeah, I said, but you

1376
01:13:46,200 --> 01:13:50,240
Speaker 6: know you should do something for him. What should I

1377
01:13:50,280 --> 01:13:50,680
Speaker 6: do for him?

1378
01:13:50,680 --> 01:13:53,800
Speaker 7: He said, you know that new Blondie record that's coming out.

1379
01:13:54,080 --> 01:13:58,400
Speaker 7: I own these stores strawberries, get me fifty thousand clean

1380
01:13:58,520 --> 01:14:03,240
Speaker 7: copies meant that they weren't punched as free goods so

1381
01:14:03,360 --> 01:14:03,920
Speaker 7: they could sell.

1382
01:14:04,680 --> 01:14:04,920
Speaker 1: Wow.

1383
01:14:05,120 --> 01:14:08,679
Speaker 7: And I said, Mars, I know, I'm not the record company,

1384
01:14:08,680 --> 01:14:12,160
Speaker 7: I really, but we settled at ten thousand copies, which

1385
01:14:12,240 --> 01:14:13,960
Speaker 7: I bought from the record company.

1386
01:14:14,040 --> 01:14:16,400
Speaker 6: It costs it gave him that it was like.

1387
01:14:19,160 --> 01:14:22,360
Speaker 7: And luckily a few months later, Tommy Vastolo got caught

1388
01:14:23,240 --> 01:14:27,720
Speaker 7: on camera in Philadelphia beating up a record store guy.

1389
01:14:27,760 --> 01:14:30,960
Speaker 7: Who hadn't paid his bill to boish with a baseball

1390
01:14:31,040 --> 01:14:33,919
Speaker 7: bat and went to jail for the rest of his life.

1391
01:14:34,600 --> 01:14:35,280
Speaker 1: Still in jail.

1392
01:14:35,520 --> 01:14:37,559
Speaker 6: I think he died in jail. He may be around

1393
01:14:37,600 --> 01:14:38,880
Speaker 6: if he will probably come after me.

1394
01:14:38,960 --> 01:14:42,360
Speaker 5: But is that when you became a Buddhist.

1395
01:14:42,800 --> 01:14:48,120
Speaker 7: Yeah, but that was my only real you know, there's

1396
01:14:48,160 --> 01:14:50,519
Speaker 7: so much talk. You see vinyls, you see all this stuff.

1397
01:14:51,280 --> 01:14:54,680
Speaker 7: It never really was. You know, there were thugs, but

1398
01:14:54,760 --> 01:14:56,280
Speaker 7: it wasn't this organized.

1399
01:14:56,439 --> 01:14:56,600
Speaker 1: You know.

1400
01:14:57,000 --> 01:14:59,400
Speaker 7: That was my only brush in forty years of doing

1401
01:14:59,439 --> 01:15:02,920
Speaker 7: it of like real organized crime stuff.

1402
01:15:03,080 --> 01:15:06,240
Speaker 1: So did you Did you have personal relationships with all

1403
01:15:06,240 --> 01:15:09,080
Speaker 1: of your clients because I mean no, I mean at

1404
01:15:09,200 --> 01:15:12,000
Speaker 1: some point you had like forty at the same time, right, No.

1405
01:15:12,160 --> 01:15:14,080
Speaker 1: I So what about like Rick.

1406
01:15:14,000 --> 01:15:16,600
Speaker 7: James, Rick James, I had a very personal relationship with

1407
01:15:16,720 --> 01:15:25,679
Speaker 7: I would say, Rick Teddy, Alice Raquel to some extent.

1408
01:15:27,120 --> 01:15:29,240
Speaker 7: Those were really my closest. There was some that I

1409
01:15:29,320 --> 01:15:32,679
Speaker 7: had no and some of the African artists Johnny Clegig

1410
01:15:33,720 --> 01:15:36,320
Speaker 7: King Sonny A. Day was the most elegant human being

1411
01:15:36,360 --> 01:15:39,400
Speaker 7: I've ever been around in my life. Magic Fashik was

1412
01:15:39,720 --> 01:15:43,920
Speaker 7: just a joy. So but there were many I didn't luthor.

1413
01:15:43,960 --> 01:15:46,200
Speaker 7: I did not have a close relationship.

1414
01:15:45,640 --> 01:15:47,720
Speaker 1: With really at all, but you were with him at

1415
01:15:47,800 --> 01:15:48,720
Speaker 1: all times though I.

1416
01:15:48,800 --> 01:15:51,800
Speaker 7: Was with him twenty years, so we lived ten blocks

1417
01:15:51,800 --> 01:15:53,320
Speaker 7: from each other. He never was at my house.

1418
01:15:53,840 --> 01:15:57,040
Speaker 1: Wow, really yeah? I mean, did you have a liaison like.

1419
01:15:58,680 --> 01:15:59,400
Speaker 6: I had a liaison?

1420
01:15:59,479 --> 01:16:02,479
Speaker 7: For every act I used to tell acts, I'd say,

1421
01:16:02,520 --> 01:16:06,439
Speaker 7: you know, the biggest waste of my time is talking

1422
01:16:06,520 --> 01:16:08,920
Speaker 7: to you on the phone about you need four Coca colas.

1423
01:16:09,560 --> 01:16:13,519
Speaker 7: You know, then I'm not doing my job. So I

1424
01:16:13,680 --> 01:16:17,080
Speaker 7: charged twenty percent. If you don't need me to be

1425
01:16:17,200 --> 01:16:19,240
Speaker 7: in your face all the time, I will get someone

1426
01:16:19,520 --> 01:16:21,200
Speaker 7: that you can beat up whenever you want to beat

1427
01:16:21,240 --> 01:16:25,479
Speaker 7: them up, and you'll only charge of fifteen percent. And

1428
01:16:26,600 --> 01:16:28,080
Speaker 7: everybody went for fifteen percent.

1429
01:16:28,479 --> 01:16:30,320
Speaker 6: I never had anybody say no, I want you for

1430
01:16:30,439 --> 01:16:32,360
Speaker 6: twenty but it was true.

1431
01:16:32,439 --> 01:16:36,240
Speaker 7: My job is getting ahead of the artist but a

1432
01:16:36,360 --> 01:16:38,960
Speaker 7: year or two and telling them where to go. And

1433
01:16:39,040 --> 01:16:42,200
Speaker 7: if I'm spending my time talking about like I didn't

1434
01:16:42,200 --> 01:16:44,360
Speaker 7: have the right light in my dressing room last night.

1435
01:16:44,479 --> 01:16:46,639
Speaker 7: You know, I like pink lights, not they had.

1436
01:16:46,520 --> 01:16:48,599
Speaker 6: A blue light. Could you believe they had a blue light?

1437
01:16:49,680 --> 01:16:56,280
Speaker 1: Well? I can imagine that, especially after the massive success

1438
01:16:56,520 --> 01:17:05,000
Speaker 1: of Street Songs, m V dawning of MTV that Rick

1439
01:17:05,160 --> 01:17:12,240
Speaker 1: James really wanted to be ushered into, you know, the eighties,

1440
01:17:12,600 --> 01:17:16,360
Speaker 1: the same way that Michael and Prince got their due.

1441
01:17:17,040 --> 01:17:22,160
Speaker 1: So I mean I had what was that whole scenario, Like,

1442
01:17:22,240 --> 01:17:24,200
Speaker 1: I mean, was there a pressure on you like to

1443
01:17:24,680 --> 01:17:25,559
Speaker 1: get me on MTV?

1444
01:17:25,680 --> 01:17:28,479
Speaker 6: And I mean enough from Rick. But we were doing

1445
01:17:28,560 --> 01:17:31,280
Speaker 6: so good that I didn't. He didn't need to. We

1446
01:17:31,400 --> 01:17:32,439
Speaker 6: had It was a great career.

1447
01:17:32,680 --> 01:17:35,280
Speaker 1: Many complained about it a lot, though, you know, on MTV.

1448
01:17:35,479 --> 01:17:35,880
Speaker 6: Never to me.

1449
01:17:35,960 --> 01:17:38,840
Speaker 7: I never never really got it from but he may

1450
01:17:38,920 --> 01:17:40,800
Speaker 7: have to the guy who worked for me, he may have,

1451
01:17:42,439 --> 01:17:45,080
Speaker 7: but he made he was We were headlined those Budweiser

1452
01:17:45,160 --> 01:17:47,839
Speaker 7: festivals and it was good times.

1453
01:17:47,880 --> 01:17:48,080
Speaker 1: Boy.

1454
01:17:48,600 --> 01:17:50,920
Speaker 6: He was a great guy. I really loved, very smart man.

1455
01:17:51,720 --> 01:17:55,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, my uh my Rick James story was at the

1456
01:17:55,240 --> 01:18:00,160
Speaker 1: House of Blues, uh Me, Common and Rossario Dawson went

1457
01:18:00,240 --> 01:18:02,920
Speaker 1: to go see Rick and or it was really the

1458
01:18:03,000 --> 01:18:05,559
Speaker 1: Tina Marie Show, but Rick just happened to be there

1459
01:18:06,120 --> 01:18:08,280
Speaker 1: and they got out and fire and desire and everything.

1460
01:18:08,320 --> 01:18:11,400
Speaker 1: It was like nineteen ninety nine. Anyway, So we're up

1461
01:18:12,360 --> 01:18:15,920
Speaker 1: backstage and Rick comes in with Leon Isaac Kennedy.

1462
01:18:18,479 --> 01:18:21,240
Speaker 6: So the thing is was married for like a beautiful girl.

1463
01:18:23,080 --> 01:18:26,680
Speaker 1: Have you ever seen that sexty? Well, here we go,

1464
01:18:27,720 --> 01:18:30,080
Speaker 1: this is where I'm leading to. This is what I'm

1465
01:18:30,120 --> 01:18:30,479
Speaker 1: leading to.

1466
01:18:31,160 --> 01:18:31,280
Speaker 4: Now.

1467
01:18:31,439 --> 01:18:34,959
Speaker 1: Rick saw me. Rick saw me walking with Rosario.

1468
01:18:35,160 --> 01:18:35,280
Speaker 4: Right.

1469
01:18:36,240 --> 01:18:38,320
Speaker 1: But after a while, like me and Tina started talking

1470
01:18:38,360 --> 01:18:41,320
Speaker 1: a lot about like I'm kicking out whatever. So at

1471
01:18:41,400 --> 01:18:44,800
Speaker 1: some point Rick comes up to me and I was like,

1472
01:18:45,760 --> 01:18:48,040
Speaker 1: he gives me this firm handshake, and I was like, yo, man,

1473
01:18:48,160 --> 01:18:51,200
Speaker 1: like I can't even believe you, like know who I am.

1474
01:18:51,360 --> 01:18:54,280
Speaker 1: He's like, of course I know you are. Motherfucker you

1475
01:18:54,360 --> 01:18:57,280
Speaker 1: want to he was the one of the funkiest motherfuckers

1476
01:18:57,360 --> 01:19:01,920
Speaker 1: walking on earth right now. And he said, but I

1477
01:19:01,960 --> 01:19:04,679
Speaker 1: should tell you something now. At this point, he points

1478
01:19:04,720 --> 01:19:09,200
Speaker 1: out my peripheral and leon is over there wrapping to Rosario. Now,

1479
01:19:09,280 --> 01:19:11,120
Speaker 1: I mean we were cool, like she wasn't my dater

1480
01:19:11,200 --> 01:19:14,040
Speaker 1: or anything. But Rick don't know that, he says, He

1481
01:19:14,120 --> 01:19:18,240
Speaker 1: points Leon. He says, you know that motherfucker over there.

1482
01:19:19,040 --> 01:19:22,240
Speaker 1: I said, that's how leon Isa sac Kennedy, right. He said, yeah,

1483
01:19:23,040 --> 01:19:25,960
Speaker 1: He's like, is that your lady? And you know I

1484
01:19:26,040 --> 01:19:28,920
Speaker 1: was I was, well, you know, we're cool, but you

1485
01:19:29,000 --> 01:19:32,439
Speaker 1: know he's if you know what that motherfucker's hands is. Man,

1486
01:19:32,520 --> 01:19:33,720
Speaker 1: I go get your lady right now.

1487
01:19:38,800 --> 01:19:39,160
Speaker 4: Me me.

1488
01:19:40,800 --> 01:19:49,360
Speaker 1: Nice of music, guys, get back. I bumped into Dave Chappelle,

1489
01:19:49,840 --> 01:19:53,320
Speaker 1: uh recently, and I told we were interviewing you, and

1490
01:19:53,640 --> 01:19:56,679
Speaker 1: you know, I reminded him that you had managed Rick James.

1491
01:19:57,760 --> 01:20:00,800
Speaker 1: And I was there the day that we actually shot

1492
01:20:01,880 --> 01:20:06,160
Speaker 1: Rick's porson of the interview and uh, he was actually

1493
01:20:06,240 --> 01:20:09,200
Speaker 1: I think the first of the second person that we

1494
01:20:09,320 --> 01:20:13,320
Speaker 1: showed the final sketch to, and uh, you know he

1495
01:20:13,439 --> 01:20:16,040
Speaker 1: loved it. He yeah, he loved it. We got no

1496
01:20:16,120 --> 01:20:16,880
Speaker 1: complaints from him.

1497
01:20:16,960 --> 01:20:20,000
Speaker 7: Rick was the way I the way I started with Rick.

1498
01:20:20,040 --> 01:20:22,680
Speaker 7: I was in my office one day and this my

1499
01:20:22,880 --> 01:20:28,200
Speaker 7: door gets thrown open and just thrown open, like worked

1500
01:20:28,200 --> 01:20:29,960
Speaker 7: his way right through the reception that just came to

1501
01:20:30,000 --> 01:20:33,280
Speaker 7: the thing. He goes, you, motherfucker you shep Gordon, motherfucker.

1502
01:20:33,400 --> 01:20:36,240
Speaker 7: I know more about you than you know about you, really,

1503
01:20:36,400 --> 01:20:38,360
Speaker 7: And I said, what who are you? And he said,

1504
01:20:38,520 --> 01:20:41,800
Speaker 7: motherfucker Rick James, I'm from Buffalo, New York. You went

1505
01:20:41,840 --> 01:20:43,000
Speaker 7: to school in Buffalo, New.

1506
01:20:43,000 --> 01:20:44,639
Speaker 6: York, you lived on Main Street.

1507
01:20:44,920 --> 01:20:46,160
Speaker 1: You ate it the you did?

1508
01:20:46,320 --> 01:20:48,600
Speaker 6: He like had it down I said, what do you do?

1509
01:20:48,720 --> 01:20:50,599
Speaker 6: And he said, He's good, what do I do? I'm

1510
01:20:50,640 --> 01:20:54,320
Speaker 6: the fucking baddest motherfucker you ever came across in your

1511
01:20:54,479 --> 01:20:55,320
Speaker 6: fucking life.

1512
01:20:55,720 --> 01:20:58,280
Speaker 1: What do you mean? Why do I do? Wow?

1513
01:20:58,640 --> 01:21:01,760
Speaker 6: And he and he had a hit record ONWN. So

1514
01:21:01,920 --> 01:21:04,280
Speaker 6: you and I had already been out, and yeah, you

1515
01:21:04,360 --> 01:21:05,040
Speaker 6: and I was out.

1516
01:21:05,320 --> 01:21:05,680
Speaker 1: He had to.

1517
01:21:05,920 --> 01:21:09,360
Speaker 7: He had just was just about to sign the Mary

1518
01:21:09,479 --> 01:21:13,240
Speaker 7: Jane girls to Barry, and he said, motherfucker, I got

1519
01:21:13,280 --> 01:21:15,240
Speaker 7: these girls that are gonna be even bigger than me,

1520
01:21:15,520 --> 01:21:16,840
Speaker 7: and you're going to do their deal.

1521
01:21:16,880 --> 01:21:17,600
Speaker 6: I'm throwing you in.

1522
01:21:17,640 --> 01:21:20,040
Speaker 7: The pit with Berry. And that was my first meeting.

1523
01:21:20,080 --> 01:21:22,960
Speaker 7: I went to the penthouse on sunset and Barry was

1524
01:21:23,040 --> 01:21:27,360
Speaker 7: playing pool and really yeah and and uh, rickad, this

1525
01:21:27,439 --> 01:21:29,600
Speaker 7: is the motherfucker's gonna squeeze you for more money you

1526
01:21:29,720 --> 01:21:30,599
Speaker 7: ever given anybody.

1527
01:21:35,520 --> 01:21:37,920
Speaker 1: So what was that light with Barry? We were talking.

1528
01:21:41,520 --> 01:21:45,200
Speaker 6: I never really got to know him. He was very

1529
01:21:46,400 --> 01:21:49,600
Speaker 6: He dismissed me, right, I mean he really dismissed me.

1530
01:21:50,120 --> 01:21:50,720
Speaker 6: I was that.

1531
01:21:51,080 --> 01:21:52,080
Speaker 1: He is very dismissive.

1532
01:21:52,320 --> 01:21:53,120
Speaker 6: Yeah, he dismissed me.

1533
01:21:53,160 --> 01:21:56,160
Speaker 7: To say, but we held out and he came around

1534
01:21:56,920 --> 01:21:59,320
Speaker 7: and we made the deal, and uh, he paid him.

1535
01:22:00,560 --> 01:22:05,200
Speaker 7: He was Barry was my impression, and I didn't know

1536
01:22:05,320 --> 01:22:08,080
Speaker 7: him well, and I can't say this with one hundred

1537
01:22:08,080 --> 01:22:12,280
Speaker 7: percent certainly, but he would fuck you to your faiths,

1538
01:22:12,640 --> 01:22:13,320
Speaker 7: not to your back.

1539
01:22:14,160 --> 01:22:17,000
Speaker 6: He cut a really hard deal. You got to respect

1540
01:22:17,000 --> 01:22:18,919
Speaker 6: that and you got to respect it. And he delivered

1541
01:22:19,000 --> 01:22:21,280
Speaker 6: the goods. He got you to hit records. He did

1542
01:22:21,360 --> 01:22:22,160
Speaker 6: the stuff he had to do.

1543
01:22:22,680 --> 01:22:24,599
Speaker 7: But it was all about Barry and he wasn't sharing,

1544
01:22:25,080 --> 01:22:27,200
Speaker 7: and he was vocal about I can deal with anybody

1545
01:22:27,240 --> 01:22:29,680
Speaker 7: if they're honest, they tell you what the game is.

1546
01:22:29,720 --> 01:22:32,519
Speaker 7: You want to get delt in, you know, get you

1547
01:22:32,640 --> 01:22:33,200
Speaker 7: have a choice.

1548
01:22:33,400 --> 01:22:37,760
Speaker 1: Did he at least respect that Rick Rick's celebrity and

1549
01:22:39,439 --> 01:22:41,879
Speaker 1: his status at the time was going to carry Motown

1550
01:22:43,120 --> 01:22:43,920
Speaker 1: to the eighties?

1551
01:22:44,240 --> 01:22:44,599
Speaker 6: I don't.

1552
01:22:44,800 --> 01:22:47,479
Speaker 1: I mean, with the exception of and Stevie. Yeah, that

1553
01:22:47,680 --> 01:22:47,840
Speaker 1: was it.

1554
01:22:48,040 --> 01:22:51,519
Speaker 6: Yeah, I don't know. I really don't know. I Rick

1555
01:22:51,680 --> 01:22:55,120
Speaker 6: ended up dealing more with him than I did. Really.

1556
01:22:55,200 --> 01:22:58,360
Speaker 7: Yeah, Rick had a good relationship with him. I was

1557
01:22:58,400 --> 01:22:59,920
Speaker 7: the white kid on the block who was trying to

1558
01:23:00,040 --> 01:23:03,080
Speaker 7: steal from him, and so I let Rick. I would

1559
01:23:03,400 --> 01:23:05,439
Speaker 7: I would wind Rick up and send him in rather

1560
01:23:05,520 --> 01:23:07,760
Speaker 7: than go in myself. I say, you know, here's what

1561
01:23:07,880 --> 01:23:09,920
Speaker 7: we got to get and here's what I need, and

1562
01:23:10,680 --> 01:23:12,040
Speaker 7: the Mary Jane girls had to hit.

1563
01:23:12,120 --> 01:23:13,160
Speaker 6: The first record was a hit.

1564
01:23:13,240 --> 01:23:15,240
Speaker 1: So yeah, both those records.

1565
01:23:15,320 --> 01:23:16,800
Speaker 6: Yeah, so they were real happy with them.

1566
01:23:17,280 --> 01:23:18,960
Speaker 1: So you orchestrated both those albums.

1567
01:23:19,120 --> 01:23:20,320
Speaker 6: I wouldn't say I orchestrated.

1568
01:23:20,320 --> 01:23:20,880
Speaker 1: I made the deal.

1569
01:23:21,880 --> 01:23:24,200
Speaker 6: I made the deal for him to allow him to hit,

1570
01:23:24,280 --> 01:23:25,960
Speaker 6: but I didn't have any real influence on it.

1571
01:23:26,040 --> 01:23:26,200
Speaker 4: Rick.

1572
01:23:26,600 --> 01:23:31,040
Speaker 7: Rick was very much in control of his career. He

1573
01:23:31,240 --> 01:23:33,840
Speaker 7: was very strong, one of the smartest artists I've ever

1574
01:23:33,880 --> 01:23:34,200
Speaker 7: worked with.

1575
01:23:34,439 --> 01:23:40,599
Speaker 1: So, with the exception of maybe Freddy Demand, if I'm who.

1576
01:23:40,560 --> 01:23:42,479
Speaker 6: By the way, I think is maybe the best manager

1577
01:23:42,640 --> 01:23:44,480
Speaker 6: of my in my lifetime.

1578
01:23:44,920 --> 01:23:49,200
Speaker 1: Really. Yeah. Well, with the exception of Freddie Demand, I

1579
01:23:49,200 --> 01:23:52,960
Speaker 1: don't know where I was the Jackson's and.

1580
01:23:53,000 --> 01:23:57,519
Speaker 6: Then he did Michael's launch, a solo launch Madonna.

1581
01:23:57,680 --> 01:24:00,280
Speaker 7: Yeah, he had madonna'srom Jump Street right from jumps Street

1582
01:24:00,840 --> 01:24:03,559
Speaker 7: and brought back Line over Richard And he would only.

1583
01:24:03,479 --> 01:24:05,680
Speaker 6: Do one or two acts at a time, that's all

1584
01:24:05,720 --> 01:24:06,080
Speaker 6: he needed.

1585
01:24:06,920 --> 01:24:07,400
Speaker 1: But he did.

1586
01:24:07,800 --> 01:24:12,719
Speaker 7: He did the job. I mean, he really, My respect

1587
01:24:12,800 --> 01:24:15,760
Speaker 7: love for him is unbelievable. I Mean I always when

1588
01:24:15,800 --> 01:24:18,760
Speaker 7: people ask me, I always say Freddy Demand was the guy.

1589
01:24:20,320 --> 01:24:24,720
Speaker 1: What I was gonna say between Jerry Goldsmith and Freddy Demand, Well,

1590
01:24:25,080 --> 01:24:31,720
Speaker 1: let me, I'm I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I gotta try

1591
01:24:31,720 --> 01:24:33,719
Speaker 1: and stop. Sorry, I'm sorry.

1592
01:24:34,160 --> 01:24:36,200
Speaker 6: Well no, I mean, okay, So who was Jerry gold

1593
01:24:36,680 --> 01:24:43,080
Speaker 6: He had wore sly uh the animals? Yeah, er, But

1594
01:24:43,240 --> 01:24:46,880
Speaker 6: I'm just saying that a lot of lawsuits a lot.

1595
01:24:48,000 --> 01:24:53,200
Speaker 1: However, I'm saying that if I am a black act

1596
01:24:54,040 --> 01:24:59,200
Speaker 1: that's looking to crossover, and crossover was definitely on the

1597
01:24:59,360 --> 01:25:02,960
Speaker 1: minds of a lot of black acts in the seventies,

1598
01:25:03,000 --> 01:25:05,639
Speaker 1: how to break out of the Chitlin circuit and really

1599
01:25:05,840 --> 01:25:09,400
Speaker 1: want to generate money for myself. But like staying power,

1600
01:25:10,320 --> 01:25:13,360
Speaker 1: I mean, are you are you the are you the

1601
01:25:14,160 --> 01:25:17,839
Speaker 1: golden child that will Is it either you or Freddie

1602
01:25:17,840 --> 01:25:20,639
Speaker 1: that's the golden child that will take you there? Or yeah?

1603
01:25:20,680 --> 01:25:22,120
Speaker 1: I think they were And is it based on the

1604
01:25:22,200 --> 01:25:24,000
Speaker 1: relationships you have with radio stations?

1605
01:25:24,080 --> 01:25:26,200
Speaker 6: And I think, you know, in a way of thinking,

1606
01:25:27,000 --> 01:25:28,720
Speaker 6: I think there were a couple of other guys.

1607
01:25:30,520 --> 01:25:32,280
Speaker 7: Trying to think of the guys that did earth Wind

1608
01:25:32,320 --> 01:25:37,400
Speaker 7: and Fire, they had found the highway to go down

1609
01:25:37,560 --> 01:25:40,000
Speaker 7: to the way they could do stuff like that. There

1610
01:25:40,040 --> 01:25:44,800
Speaker 7: were a few people. But you know, also radio was

1611
01:25:44,920 --> 01:25:47,920
Speaker 7: hungry for it. They were really hungry for it. It

1612
01:25:48,000 --> 01:25:48,799
Speaker 7: wasn't a hardshell.

1613
01:25:50,560 --> 01:25:54,240
Speaker 1: It was radio hungry for music. Like now, radio is

1614
01:25:54,280 --> 01:25:57,800
Speaker 1: hungry for you to buy the product that they're advertising.

1615
01:25:58,280 --> 01:26:03,240
Speaker 1: So it's not music centric more than it is getting

1616
01:26:03,479 --> 01:26:06,200
Speaker 1: you know, you to hear the commercials and getting kids

1617
01:26:06,280 --> 01:26:07,920
Speaker 1: to hear their parents to hear the commercials to buy

1618
01:26:07,960 --> 01:26:11,240
Speaker 1: the product. Like music is almost an afterthought for radio,

1619
01:26:12,120 --> 01:26:14,639
Speaker 1: which is why we get the same fifteen songs in rotation.

1620
01:26:15,280 --> 01:26:18,000
Speaker 1: But are you saying that there's a point where radio

1621
01:26:18,160 --> 01:26:19,840
Speaker 1: was truly interested.

1622
01:26:19,840 --> 01:26:23,640
Speaker 7: In I wouldn't say truly interested, because I don't know

1623
01:26:23,680 --> 01:26:27,400
Speaker 7: if they're capable of that. FM was but pop am radio,

1624
01:26:27,720 --> 01:26:33,599
Speaker 7: but they found that those records worked on their stations. Okay,

1625
01:26:34,560 --> 01:26:37,920
Speaker 7: so you you know, the game was always buying your

1626
01:26:37,960 --> 01:26:40,600
Speaker 7: way on. But you couldn't just buy your way on.

1627
01:26:41,400 --> 01:26:43,599
Speaker 1: You had to see I always thought you could buy

1628
01:26:43,640 --> 01:26:44,000
Speaker 1: your way on.

1629
01:26:44,160 --> 01:26:46,320
Speaker 6: Oh no, I'll tell you a great Philly story, Gray,

1630
01:26:46,479 --> 01:26:47,000
Speaker 6: really funny.

1631
01:26:47,040 --> 01:26:47,679
Speaker 1: Everything's happening.

1632
01:26:49,840 --> 01:26:53,719
Speaker 7: So I'm a young punk. Alice has a hit record,

1633
01:26:54,760 --> 01:26:58,759
Speaker 7: comes time for the second record, and the record company

1634
01:26:58,840 --> 01:27:01,240
Speaker 7: is not going to do anything they're just not going

1635
01:27:01,280 --> 01:27:03,120
Speaker 7: to he just told you this. No, but you can

1636
01:27:03,200 --> 01:27:04,800
Speaker 7: tell you know, you know, by the science and not

1637
01:27:04,880 --> 01:27:08,320
Speaker 7: taking any ads out. There's no independence hired for the single.

1638
01:27:09,360 --> 01:27:12,479
Speaker 7: That's just you know, the tailtale signs. So I'm not

1639
01:27:12,520 --> 01:27:14,479
Speaker 7: gonna let them stop me. So I'm just gonna buy

1640
01:27:14,560 --> 01:27:17,240
Speaker 7: my way on. I had some cash on. So the

1641
01:27:17,520 --> 01:27:19,880
Speaker 7: most powerful guy at the time in radio was out

1642
01:27:19,920 --> 01:27:26,960
Speaker 7: of Philadelphia, Freddie Disappeal. He was probably the most effective guy.

1643
01:27:27,120 --> 01:27:29,160
Speaker 7: He was you could pay him and you got a

1644
01:27:29,240 --> 01:27:34,320
Speaker 7: hit record. So I went to Freddy and he had

1645
01:27:34,360 --> 01:27:36,080
Speaker 7: never heard of me. I got introduced, I think by

1646
01:27:36,640 --> 01:27:39,040
Speaker 7: maybe Albert Grossman or somebody on a phone call. There

1647
01:27:39,040 --> 01:27:42,000
Speaker 7: were no emails or anything like that. And I told

1648
01:27:42,040 --> 01:27:44,200
Speaker 7: him the story and it's Alison, how much is it?

1649
01:27:44,760 --> 01:27:47,840
Speaker 7: And in those days they used to charge by parallel one,

1650
01:27:48,000 --> 01:27:51,880
Speaker 7: Parallel two, parallel three. Parallel one was a big station,

1651
01:27:52,400 --> 01:27:55,320
Speaker 7: so maybe that was a ten thousand dollars by. Parallel

1652
01:27:55,360 --> 01:27:58,200
Speaker 7: two was a smaller station, maybe a five thousand dollars by.

1653
01:27:59,680 --> 01:28:02,000
Speaker 7: So I wanted to parallel one station. I paid him

1654
01:28:02,040 --> 01:28:05,840
Speaker 7: ten thousand, and first week we're twenty seven.

1655
01:28:06,360 --> 01:28:08,680
Speaker 6: It's like, oh my god, this is the greatest. We're

1656
01:28:08,720 --> 01:28:10,880
Speaker 6: going to you know, we're getting around of the record company.

1657
01:28:12,000 --> 01:28:14,320
Speaker 6: And the second week with twenty five, it's moving up

1658
01:28:14,400 --> 01:28:16,280
Speaker 6: the charts. This is fantastic.

1659
01:28:17,600 --> 01:28:20,600
Speaker 7: Third week it drops off the chart, twenty five to.

1660
01:28:21,040 --> 01:28:24,920
Speaker 7: In the record business, once you lose your momentum, no

1661
01:28:25,080 --> 01:28:26,840
Speaker 7: other station in the country's going to pick you up

1662
01:28:27,520 --> 01:28:31,759
Speaker 7: if you don't. That's so the record was over. Maybe

1663
01:28:31,840 --> 01:28:33,960
Speaker 7: a year later I found out what the game was.

1664
01:28:34,439 --> 01:28:39,200
Speaker 7: The station only played twenty songs, but he sold thirty slots,

1665
01:28:40,800 --> 01:28:45,599
Speaker 7: so of course there were no sales. The record never

1666
01:28:45,680 --> 01:28:54,280
Speaker 7: got played. So I paid ten thousand to kill the record, just.

1667
01:28:54,320 --> 01:28:56,320
Speaker 1: To be in the bottom to kill it.

1668
01:28:56,439 --> 01:28:56,880
Speaker 6: I killed it.

1669
01:29:00,160 --> 01:29:04,320
Speaker 1: Lesson learned, Yeah, good learn oh man. Lesson learned.

1670
01:29:05,320 --> 01:29:06,920
Speaker 6: There's always a curtain behind the curtain.

1671
01:29:08,479 --> 01:29:12,960
Speaker 1: So and then I'm I'm I'm now now I'm putting

1672
01:29:12,960 --> 01:29:17,639
Speaker 1: two two together. The fact that you managed Stephanie Mills

1673
01:29:17,680 --> 01:29:22,920
Speaker 1: explains her presence on the Teddy Records. Uh. You managing

1674
01:29:23,400 --> 01:29:29,160
Speaker 1: the Callaway Brothers and Midnight Star explains their presence on I.

1675
01:29:29,240 --> 01:29:31,640
Speaker 6: Want to Be Rich And what a great tour. I

1676
01:29:31,760 --> 01:29:32,840
Speaker 6: love that I want to Be Rich?

1677
01:29:33,840 --> 01:29:34,879
Speaker 1: That was that your concept?

1678
01:29:34,960 --> 01:29:35,160
Speaker 6: Yeah?

1679
01:29:35,439 --> 01:29:44,840
Speaker 7: Completely, oh man, I can't. I mean, I completely, but

1680
01:29:44,920 --> 01:29:47,080
Speaker 7: the thought was there, you know, it was like, come on,

1681
01:29:47,240 --> 01:29:47,840
Speaker 7: let's just say it.

1682
01:29:54,040 --> 01:29:58,960
Speaker 1: Wow, and it happened. I got it. I mean, I

1683
01:29:59,080 --> 01:30:02,800
Speaker 1: have so many my experience with Luther Vandros. I mean,

1684
01:30:02,880 --> 01:30:06,439
Speaker 1: as a person who was immersed in hip hop whatever

1685
01:30:06,520 --> 01:30:10,120
Speaker 1: I mean, Luther Vanres was the definition of smooth R

1686
01:30:10,160 --> 01:30:15,360
Speaker 1: and B kind of answer, like the complete opposite of

1687
01:30:16,120 --> 01:30:19,479
Speaker 1: what hip hop represented. But I mean I still respected it.

1688
01:30:20,920 --> 01:30:26,000
Speaker 1: But Luther's live show was like my mom would physically

1689
01:30:26,160 --> 01:30:30,599
Speaker 1: describe every moment. And this is from Lisa Fisher, all

1690
01:30:30,960 --> 01:30:37,320
Speaker 1: gown of Fontie Thwarton to all these things. So what

1691
01:30:37,560 --> 01:30:41,719
Speaker 1: is I mean of Luther at is at his peak,

1692
01:30:41,840 --> 01:30:45,760
Speaker 1: at the peak of his powers, which I mean, I

1693
01:30:46,040 --> 01:30:48,679
Speaker 1: guess you could say the night is the night NFL lovers,

1694
01:30:48,680 --> 01:30:51,719
Speaker 1: it give me the reason? I mean, yeah, the powerful,

1695
01:30:52,240 --> 01:30:55,720
Speaker 1: give me the reason. I mean, God, that was so yeah.

1696
01:30:56,320 --> 01:30:58,080
Speaker 2: I mean what I at of love was probably my

1697
01:30:58,200 --> 01:31:01,680
Speaker 2: personal I mean yeah, as yeah, my personal favorite too.

1698
01:31:02,160 --> 01:31:06,479
Speaker 1: So, but I also know that he was notorious for

1699
01:31:06,600 --> 01:31:11,400
Speaker 1: being very meticulous and like harder than James Brown, like

1700
01:31:11,560 --> 01:31:15,760
Speaker 1: fines and although he was no spot nor wrinkle, where

1701
01:31:15,800 --> 01:31:18,800
Speaker 1: does that come from? Like that level of discipline that

1702
01:31:18,880 --> 01:31:19,960
Speaker 1: I'm neriable.

1703
01:31:20,240 --> 01:31:22,160
Speaker 6: Yeah, I've never seen anything like it. It was it,

1704
01:31:22,520 --> 01:31:24,200
Speaker 6: you know, my reputation.

1705
01:31:25,240 --> 01:31:28,519
Speaker 7: Most many of the artists hired me because I wrote

1706
01:31:28,640 --> 01:31:29,960
Speaker 7: and directed the stage.

1707
01:31:29,640 --> 01:31:33,240
Speaker 6: Shows and that was my joy.

1708
01:31:33,320 --> 01:31:35,640
Speaker 1: And I was, oh, really yeah so that I didn't know.

1709
01:31:35,800 --> 01:31:37,880
Speaker 7: I did the Earth Wind and Fire Pyramid show, I

1710
01:31:37,960 --> 01:31:40,640
Speaker 7: did the first Kiss show. I love doing shows and

1711
01:31:40,720 --> 01:31:44,040
Speaker 7: doing productions, and I knew how to gets standing ovations

1712
01:31:44,080 --> 01:31:45,599
Speaker 7: and that was a lot of my value to most

1713
01:31:45,640 --> 01:31:49,360
Speaker 7: of my artists. Luther would would not let me come

1714
01:31:49,680 --> 01:31:52,400
Speaker 7: to see him until he had broken the show in

1715
01:31:53,880 --> 01:31:55,639
Speaker 7: so I would never allowed to come to the first

1716
01:31:55,680 --> 01:31:59,080
Speaker 7: four or five six shows because he wanted to be perfect.

1717
01:31:59,080 --> 01:32:00,640
Speaker 7: I'd say to him, you know, of my job is

1718
01:32:00,720 --> 01:32:01,880
Speaker 7: to help you make it perfect.

1719
01:32:02,840 --> 01:32:04,640
Speaker 1: And he was.

1720
01:32:04,920 --> 01:32:07,799
Speaker 7: He was in complete control of every second on that stage,

1721
01:32:08,280 --> 01:32:13,400
Speaker 7: every single light, every wardrobe change, and did it as

1722
01:32:13,439 --> 01:32:15,240
Speaker 7: good as I mean as good as you could possibly

1723
01:32:15,320 --> 01:32:19,000
Speaker 7: do it. Fanatic about it, but and drove a very hardship.

1724
01:32:19,640 --> 01:32:22,439
Speaker 7: You know, if someone was a second late, they were toast.

1725
01:32:23,240 --> 01:32:25,040
Speaker 7: If they were off on a queue somewhere, if a

1726
01:32:25,120 --> 01:32:28,439
Speaker 7: lighting queue went down, that guy was toasted.

1727
01:32:28,479 --> 01:32:28,800
Speaker 1: That night.

1728
01:32:28,880 --> 01:32:31,599
Speaker 7: He was just you know, brought into the dressing room

1729
01:32:31,640 --> 01:32:35,519
Speaker 7: and dressed down. He needed everything absolutely perfect, and he

1730
01:32:35,720 --> 01:32:38,120
Speaker 7: was perfect every night, so he could demand that he

1731
01:32:38,240 --> 01:32:40,680
Speaker 7: hit his marks every night. He was everything was You

1732
01:32:40,760 --> 01:32:43,559
Speaker 7: can almost overlay one show to the other with Luthor.

1733
01:32:43,600 --> 01:32:44,599
Speaker 1: You could with the clock.

1734
01:32:44,760 --> 01:32:45,599
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, wow.

1735
01:32:46,160 --> 01:32:48,840
Speaker 2: One question I always had in regards to Luther, and

1736
01:32:49,920 --> 01:32:54,280
Speaker 2: you know, it was a lot of talk about yeah

1737
01:32:57,680 --> 01:33:01,439
Speaker 2: you know, uh as a kid of the eighties, you

1738
01:33:01,479 --> 01:33:04,360
Speaker 2: know my mother, I mean that was the soundtrack to.

1739
01:33:04,400 --> 01:33:08,080
Speaker 1: My childhood, and no one cared. You know what I'm saying.

1740
01:33:08,439 --> 01:33:10,920
Speaker 2: Nobody cared at all. Yeah, Like, no one cared at all.

1741
01:33:10,960 --> 01:33:13,559
Speaker 2: We just wanted to hear him sing. As a manager,

1742
01:33:13,720 --> 01:33:16,200
Speaker 2: Was that something that presented a challenge for you or

1743
01:33:16,320 --> 01:33:18,000
Speaker 2: was it how did how did you handle?

1744
01:33:18,040 --> 01:33:18,080
Speaker 5: That?

1745
01:33:18,200 --> 01:33:20,360
Speaker 7: Didn't present a challenge at all? The only the part

1746
01:33:20,439 --> 01:33:24,880
Speaker 7: of it that presented a challenge to me wasn't professional,

1747
01:33:25,080 --> 01:33:30,160
Speaker 7: was personal. I never felt that he was joyful, and

1748
01:33:30,439 --> 01:33:33,599
Speaker 7: I felt that a lot of that lack of joy

1749
01:33:33,800 --> 01:33:36,360
Speaker 7: was that he didn't have any relationships in his life.

1750
01:33:36,920 --> 01:33:39,839
Speaker 6: He didn't that I know of. There was no male.

1751
01:33:39,760 --> 01:33:43,160
Speaker 7: Relationship, there was no female relationship. There were no relationships.

1752
01:33:45,400 --> 01:33:47,559
Speaker 7: And that was for me was the hard part because

1753
01:33:47,600 --> 01:33:49,960
Speaker 7: I wanted to be happy and enjoy success.

1754
01:33:49,960 --> 01:33:52,880
Speaker 1: Even with you, Like was there a guard between you guys?

1755
01:33:52,960 --> 01:33:56,600
Speaker 6: Yes, completely, yeah, and strictly business and strictly business. I

1756
01:33:56,680 --> 01:33:58,120
Speaker 6: don't even didn't really know who.

1757
01:33:58,080 --> 01:34:02,720
Speaker 1: He was, had one can of conversation or never had

1758
01:34:02,760 --> 01:34:05,040
Speaker 1: a real conversation. How did he seek you out to

1759
01:34:05,200 --> 01:34:07,080
Speaker 1: man or how did you end up managing him?

1760
01:34:08,160 --> 01:34:08,200
Speaker 2: He?

1761
01:34:08,600 --> 01:34:08,720
Speaker 1: Uh?

1762
01:34:09,880 --> 01:34:12,160
Speaker 6: The record company called me up, and he called me up.

1763
01:34:12,240 --> 01:34:13,000
Speaker 1: He uh.

1764
01:34:13,600 --> 01:34:18,040
Speaker 7: We had a mutual business manager and he loved the

1765
01:34:18,080 --> 01:34:21,360
Speaker 7: work I did, and we took a meeting and he did.

1766
01:34:21,640 --> 01:34:24,160
Speaker 7: We we joined up, and I had a guy in

1767
01:34:24,200 --> 01:34:27,639
Speaker 7: my office that took care of him. And we never

1768
01:34:27,840 --> 01:34:32,000
Speaker 7: we had no real relationship at all. We we actually

1769
01:34:32,520 --> 01:34:36,559
Speaker 7: he's the only artist that I worked with and had

1770
01:34:36,640 --> 01:34:37,640
Speaker 7: no communication with.

1771
01:34:37,760 --> 01:34:37,800
Speaker 6: It.

1772
01:34:38,200 --> 01:34:40,320
Speaker 7: A point in time came when he wouldn't talk to me,

1773
01:34:40,760 --> 01:34:42,559
Speaker 7: and it was about the last three years of our

1774
01:34:42,640 --> 01:34:45,360
Speaker 7: relationship that I managed him, and I would send them

1775
01:34:45,400 --> 01:34:47,080
Speaker 7: notes and say, listen, you don't have to stay with me,

1776
01:34:48,040 --> 01:34:50,080
Speaker 7: and he said, no, no, you're the right guy.

1777
01:34:50,680 --> 01:34:54,000
Speaker 1: I just don't want to talk. You know.

1778
01:34:54,080 --> 01:34:57,120
Speaker 6: He was a he was a different kind of a guy.

1779
01:34:57,880 --> 01:35:03,840
Speaker 1: Luther I tended well in light of the unfortunate events

1780
01:35:03,920 --> 01:35:10,160
Speaker 1: that have happened in twenty sixteen, I'm seeing a common

1781
01:35:10,240 --> 01:35:16,639
Speaker 1: denominator with well one particular icon that for this episode

1782
01:35:16,760 --> 01:35:22,040
Speaker 1: remain nameless, who's notoriously very secret, secretive, and very guarded.

1783
01:35:24,120 --> 01:35:26,280
Speaker 1: And I guess in light of his demise, the things

1784
01:35:26,320 --> 01:35:30,639
Speaker 1: that we found out about his life and what caused

1785
01:35:30,680 --> 01:35:34,599
Speaker 1: his exit, you know, that's a secret, that's you know. Now,

1786
01:35:34,680 --> 01:35:37,680
Speaker 1: I get why everything was so secretive, and you know

1787
01:35:37,720 --> 01:35:41,080
Speaker 1: when you're hiding something. So maybe I'm just thinking that

1788
01:35:41,280 --> 01:35:44,360
Speaker 1: he wasn't ready to be vulnerable in front.

1789
01:35:44,160 --> 01:35:48,040
Speaker 5: Of possible But you even with who you're mentioning, I

1790
01:35:48,080 --> 01:35:50,200
Speaker 5: feel like we knew more about his past with Luther.

1791
01:35:50,680 --> 01:35:52,800
Speaker 5: I don't feel like we know a lot about who

1792
01:35:52,880 --> 01:35:53,400
Speaker 5: Luther was.

1793
01:35:53,840 --> 01:35:56,680
Speaker 7: I think he really knew who he was. Wow, you know,

1794
01:35:56,760 --> 01:36:01,000
Speaker 7: I think he'd lived for his career. He lived for

1795
01:36:01,080 --> 01:36:03,439
Speaker 7: that moment on stage. That's when he that's when he

1796
01:36:03,520 --> 01:36:06,320
Speaker 7: knew what to do. And I think, you know, you

1797
01:36:06,360 --> 01:36:08,639
Speaker 7: can see the issues with the weight going up and down,

1798
01:36:08,760 --> 01:36:11,840
Speaker 7: how it translates, and you know, you just see certain things.

1799
01:36:13,160 --> 01:36:16,240
Speaker 7: But he was a great artist and I'm honored that

1800
01:36:16,320 --> 01:36:17,040
Speaker 7: I worked with him.

1801
01:36:17,600 --> 01:36:20,200
Speaker 1: There's one thing that a lot of the public doesn't

1802
01:36:20,280 --> 01:36:27,240
Speaker 1: know you're responsible for, or I guess by accident you're

1803
01:36:27,280 --> 01:36:32,400
Speaker 1: responsible for Deborah, Harry and Christine meeting fat by Freddie.

1804
01:36:32,160 --> 01:36:33,519
Speaker 6: Well, yeah, I was sort of part of the team.

1805
01:36:33,520 --> 01:36:34,760
Speaker 6: I wouldn't say responsible, but.

1806
01:36:34,840 --> 01:36:35,240
Speaker 1: Part of it.

1807
01:36:35,520 --> 01:36:41,320
Speaker 7: We were searching for We were searching for a new single.

1808
01:36:41,840 --> 01:36:45,920
Speaker 7: What do we do for a new single? And they

1809
01:36:45,960 --> 01:36:50,160
Speaker 7: were very culturally significant, they were they were a real

1810
01:36:50,280 --> 01:36:53,439
Speaker 7: product of the times. So we were looking for something

1811
01:36:53,520 --> 01:36:56,960
Speaker 7: to hang our hat on that was more significant than

1812
01:36:57,160 --> 01:37:01,599
Speaker 7: just a song. And we had heard about this thing

1813
01:37:01,640 --> 01:37:06,280
Speaker 7: that was going on up in Harlem, cardboard boxes on

1814
01:37:06,360 --> 01:37:11,280
Speaker 7: the floor, beat boxes, guys dancing, and we said, let's

1815
01:37:11,280 --> 01:37:12,880
Speaker 7: go take a look, let's see what this is all about.

1816
01:37:12,960 --> 01:37:14,200
Speaker 7: We got a guy to take us up and went

1817
01:37:14,280 --> 01:37:19,640
Speaker 7: up by train and when we just that it was

1818
01:37:19,680 --> 01:37:23,200
Speaker 7: that casual, there's no concern. Was Chris, Debbie, myself on

1819
01:37:23,320 --> 01:37:26,360
Speaker 7: the train subway. They liked the subway. They were subway

1820
01:37:26,439 --> 01:37:29,720
Speaker 7: kind of people. And we got off the station and

1821
01:37:29,800 --> 01:37:34,840
Speaker 7: there was a guy spray painting the wall and it

1822
01:37:35,000 --> 01:37:37,000
Speaker 7: was really early in the game and it was really cool,

1823
01:37:37,040 --> 01:37:38,599
Speaker 7: and Devid said, wow, is that cool?

1824
01:37:39,040 --> 01:37:41,519
Speaker 6: So we started to walk over to him to talk

1825
01:37:41,600 --> 01:37:43,160
Speaker 6: to him, and he started to.

1826
01:37:43,680 --> 01:37:46,600
Speaker 7: Not run, but move away from us really fast, and

1827
01:37:46,760 --> 01:37:48,760
Speaker 7: he got on the next train when it came. So

1828
01:37:48,880 --> 01:37:51,360
Speaker 7: we jumped on the trade and that we're all trapped

1829
01:37:51,360 --> 01:37:53,479
Speaker 7: on the trade and it was Fab five Freddy and

1830
01:37:53,680 --> 01:37:55,439
Speaker 7: he then we you know, we said when I copps,

1831
01:37:55,479 --> 01:37:58,840
Speaker 7: when I busted you, it's all good. And he took

1832
01:37:58,920 --> 01:38:02,360
Speaker 7: us back to see the dancing and then he he

1833
01:38:02,479 --> 01:38:04,040
Speaker 7: was your tour guy. Who was the tour guy and

1834
01:38:04,080 --> 01:38:06,519
Speaker 7: then he sort of you know, if you remember the video,

1835
01:38:06,600 --> 01:38:10,000
Speaker 7: he's in the background the whole pig, you know, Fab

1836
01:38:10,080 --> 01:38:11,559
Speaker 7: five Freddy dude.

1837
01:38:11,680 --> 01:38:15,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's yeah, that's that's amazing. I mean, there was

1838
01:38:16,000 --> 01:38:18,000
Speaker 1: a landmark movement. It was Eric.

1839
01:38:18,280 --> 01:38:22,000
Speaker 7: Eric thorn Grin was the guy who took us up there.

1840
01:38:22,280 --> 01:38:27,080
Speaker 7: He was the engineer on Grand Master Flash's record, and

1841
01:38:27,320 --> 01:38:30,320
Speaker 7: he was he was the one we went to and

1842
01:38:30,400 --> 01:38:31,679
Speaker 7: then he took us to Harlem.

1843
01:38:32,479 --> 01:38:33,120
Speaker 1: That's amazing.

1844
01:38:33,840 --> 01:38:36,120
Speaker 6: So and I think he engineered that record. Maybe he

1845
01:38:36,200 --> 01:38:39,000
Speaker 6: may have. I'm not sure the Chapman produced it, but

1846
01:38:39,160 --> 01:38:39,600
Speaker 6: Eric may have.

1847
01:38:39,880 --> 01:38:44,080
Speaker 1: Makes sense. And uh, well, later that year, also when

1848
01:38:44,160 --> 01:38:49,400
Speaker 1: Blondie hosted Saturday Night Live, they insisted that the four

1849
01:38:49,479 --> 01:38:54,400
Speaker 1: plus one be the musical guest. Oh really that was

1850
01:38:54,479 --> 01:38:54,840
Speaker 1: a fight?

1851
01:38:56,120 --> 01:39:00,000
Speaker 6: How so nobody really no one who nobody ever heard?

1852
01:39:03,520 --> 01:39:07,639
Speaker 1: No but that that to me, that was an amazing moment,

1853
01:39:07,720 --> 01:39:10,880
Speaker 1: Like I remember that doing the first one of of

1854
01:39:11,840 --> 01:39:12,200
Speaker 1: seeing that.

1855
01:39:12,680 --> 01:39:14,600
Speaker 2: Did you ever think at any point in timeship of

1856
01:39:15,000 --> 01:39:17,839
Speaker 2: managing hip hop artists or was that never wanted.

1857
01:39:17,640 --> 01:39:22,439
Speaker 6: To never never appealed to me? I didn't.

1858
01:39:22,560 --> 01:39:27,680
Speaker 7: Like I started to see the thug element come into

1859
01:39:27,760 --> 01:39:34,040
Speaker 7: the music business. The backstage rhythm changed completely, the attitude

1860
01:39:34,080 --> 01:39:38,200
Speaker 7: of the artists, popsy started to happen. Never had to

1861
01:39:38,280 --> 01:39:39,519
Speaker 7: deal with Popsy's before then.

1862
01:39:39,760 --> 01:39:43,880
Speaker 1: Jesus Christ, Wait you say that I didn't know that.

1863
01:39:44,479 --> 01:39:49,240
Speaker 1: You started Carlos and Charlie's, Like these are the things

1864
01:39:49,280 --> 01:39:52,280
Speaker 1: you learned, Like I'm Cassley mentioned like Carlos and Charlie's

1865
01:39:52,400 --> 01:39:55,200
Speaker 1: was like you go to Hollywood Spot okay, and He's like,

1866
01:39:55,240 --> 01:39:58,439
Speaker 1: oh I co that, And I was like, I only

1867
01:39:58,560 --> 01:40:01,679
Speaker 1: know of it because of Eddie Murphy. Oh my god.

1868
01:40:01,920 --> 01:40:05,759
Speaker 1: Every Eddie Murphy's story ever heard, am Prince story starts

1869
01:40:05,800 --> 01:40:07,760
Speaker 1: with Carlos and Charlie's. Like even even that.

1870
01:40:07,880 --> 01:40:11,799
Speaker 6: Those Eddie Murphy's story at Carlos and Charlie.

1871
01:40:11,960 --> 01:40:12,160
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1872
01:40:13,640 --> 01:40:17,400
Speaker 7: Again it was there were posse's didn't really exist. The

1873
01:40:17,479 --> 01:40:21,280
Speaker 7: first posse that I saw with my eyes was Thomas

1874
01:40:21,360 --> 01:40:24,680
Speaker 7: Hearns came to the club with a posse and you know,

1875
01:40:24,760 --> 01:40:26,479
Speaker 7: I don't think they would call posse, but he had

1876
01:40:26,520 --> 01:40:29,040
Speaker 7: like six guys with them who hanger on. Yeah, and

1877
01:40:29,160 --> 01:40:34,000
Speaker 7: they moved like a wave, you know. So Eddie Murphy

1878
01:40:34,080 --> 01:40:37,000
Speaker 7: had a posse and he comes one night into the clinic.

1879
01:40:37,080 --> 01:40:38,600
Speaker 7: Came out almost every night to the club, but he

1880
01:40:38,640 --> 01:40:42,000
Speaker 7: comes in this one night and his club was very empty,

1881
01:40:42,000 --> 01:40:43,960
Speaker 7: and there's a little white kid on the dance floor

1882
01:40:44,000 --> 01:40:45,880
Speaker 7: with his girl and the posse comes through like this

1883
01:40:46,960 --> 01:40:49,040
Speaker 7: and hits the guy and sort of breaks his nose.

1884
01:40:49,880 --> 01:40:51,760
Speaker 7: And there's nobody in the club and there's nothing going on,

1885
01:40:52,160 --> 01:40:56,120
Speaker 7: and he starts giving them ship with its nose bleeding.

1886
01:40:56,200 --> 01:40:57,679
Speaker 7: It's coming down. They call I was down and says

1887
01:40:57,680 --> 01:41:00,560
Speaker 7: having dinner. They called me upstairs. And now for the

1888
01:41:00,680 --> 01:41:05,599
Speaker 7: next thirty minutes there's this ridiculous escapade of Eddie Murphy

1889
01:41:06,160 --> 01:41:08,120
Speaker 7: trying to get to this kid to beat him up

1890
01:41:08,120 --> 01:41:10,960
Speaker 7: because he's talking disrespectfully to his people.

1891
01:41:12,040 --> 01:41:16,000
Speaker 6: My guards are around him keeping him away from getting hurt.

1892
01:41:16,640 --> 01:41:18,600
Speaker 6: And it's just really stupid. And I go over to

1893
01:41:18,680 --> 01:41:20,280
Speaker 6: Eddie and I said, I didn't know him well, but

1894
01:41:20,320 --> 01:41:22,800
Speaker 6: I said, listen, man, you won the game. You're rich,

1895
01:41:23,680 --> 01:41:26,439
Speaker 6: like you want it. You don't have to beat the kids.

1896
01:41:26,720 --> 01:41:28,559
Speaker 6: Look at his nose. He's like, you know, weighs one

1897
01:41:28,600 --> 01:41:31,160
Speaker 6: hundred pounds. You really don't have to do this. You

1898
01:41:31,280 --> 01:41:34,040
Speaker 6: want just calm down. And he wouldn't let go.

1899
01:41:34,320 --> 01:41:36,840
Speaker 7: So I called the police. I had a sergeant and

1900
01:41:37,000 --> 01:41:40,360
Speaker 7: we got him arrested and he went to jail. And

1901
01:41:42,400 --> 01:41:44,599
Speaker 7: it's about five thirty in the morning. My phone rings

1902
01:41:44,640 --> 01:41:46,439
Speaker 7: at my house and it's the guy named Don Simpson

1903
01:41:47,520 --> 01:41:49,799
Speaker 7: and he says, Chep, you're still on Carlos and Charlie's

1904
01:41:49,800 --> 01:41:51,120
Speaker 7: And I said yeah, I said, you got to help me.

1905
01:41:51,760 --> 01:41:54,639
Speaker 7: I'm starting a movie this morning and my lead actor,

1906
01:41:54,840 --> 01:41:56,000
Speaker 7: Eddie Murphy is in jail.

1907
01:41:56,120 --> 01:41:58,880
Speaker 1: A guess of the movie was Beverly Hills Cop.

1908
01:42:00,360 --> 01:42:02,080
Speaker 7: So this is this is the best fallt of the story.

1909
01:42:02,160 --> 01:42:04,040
Speaker 7: So I call up the sergeant and I say, I'm

1910
01:42:04,080 --> 01:42:06,000
Speaker 7: really sorry. We got to get him out of jail.

1911
01:42:06,479 --> 01:42:08,400
Speaker 7: Now you got to get the charges drop. I'm not

1912
01:42:08,400 --> 01:42:10,040
Speaker 7: going to charge it. And you know, no one's gonna

1913
01:42:10,080 --> 01:42:12,800
Speaker 7: I got to kick. So he goes down to the

1914
01:42:12,880 --> 01:42:14,800
Speaker 7: jail and he calls me up. He says, okay, the

1915
01:42:15,000 --> 01:42:18,760
Speaker 7: motherfucker won't leave the cell. We said, you're you're out

1916
01:42:18,800 --> 01:42:20,280
Speaker 7: of here, and he said, if you want me out.

1917
01:42:20,120 --> 01:42:21,240
Speaker 6: Of here, then I'm staying here.

1918
01:42:25,760 --> 01:42:28,799
Speaker 1: He just had the last words.

1919
01:42:35,240 --> 01:42:37,519
Speaker 5: I always wondered, did hip hop come around and bite

1920
01:42:37,520 --> 01:42:39,760
Speaker 5: you a little bit personally? Because we found out in

1921
01:42:39,840 --> 01:42:44,920
Speaker 5: the documentary Superminch that you ended up adopting, uh two

1922
01:42:45,160 --> 01:42:49,280
Speaker 5: of your ex girlfriend's branches, four of your experman's grandbabies,

1923
01:42:49,640 --> 01:42:51,880
Speaker 5: and they're have a certain age being raised in the

1924
01:42:51,960 --> 01:42:54,120
Speaker 5: eighties and nineties and stuff. So I just wonder, as

1925
01:42:54,120 --> 01:42:54,720
Speaker 5: something boy, I.

1926
01:42:54,680 --> 01:42:56,040
Speaker 6: Can remember, there was a great moment.

1927
01:42:56,120 --> 01:42:59,519
Speaker 7: It's funny you're bringing that up because it's exactly there

1928
01:42:59,600 --> 01:43:03,439
Speaker 7: was just great moment when you know, I built my

1929
01:43:03,800 --> 01:43:07,360
Speaker 7: life on with Alice by trying to get parents to

1930
01:43:07,439 --> 01:43:07,800
Speaker 7: hate him.

1931
01:43:08,320 --> 01:43:09,080
Speaker 6: That was my goal.

1932
01:43:09,800 --> 01:43:12,280
Speaker 7: And now it's ten or fifteen years later, the kids

1933
01:43:12,360 --> 01:43:14,800
Speaker 7: are getting you know, I have these four kids, they're young.

1934
01:43:14,880 --> 01:43:17,080
Speaker 7: They're staying in the bedroom next to me at my

1935
01:43:17,200 --> 01:43:19,880
Speaker 7: house and I come walking by and I hear hip

1936
01:43:19,880 --> 01:43:22,320
Speaker 7: hop for the first time, and I opened the door

1937
01:43:22,360 --> 01:43:23,719
Speaker 7: I go, what is this ship?

1938
01:43:23,800 --> 01:43:24,760
Speaker 6: You're listening.

1939
01:43:26,200 --> 01:43:28,800
Speaker 7: And Alice Cooper did yeah, And as I say it,

1940
01:43:28,880 --> 01:43:31,960
Speaker 7: I realized, oh my god, this is exact They're gonna

1941
01:43:32,120 --> 01:43:32,880
Speaker 7: that's that's it.

1942
01:43:33,320 --> 01:43:33,800
Speaker 1: And what's there?

1943
01:43:33,840 --> 01:43:35,120
Speaker 5: What's the oldest kid? How old?

1944
01:43:35,520 --> 01:43:35,680
Speaker 1: Now?

1945
01:43:35,800 --> 01:43:37,080
Speaker 6: Thirty five at that time?

1946
01:43:37,280 --> 01:43:38,240
Speaker 1: Was back then?

1947
01:43:38,479 --> 01:43:40,320
Speaker 6: Yeah? They were fine?

1948
01:43:40,560 --> 01:43:43,120
Speaker 7: Oh yeah, no, they the dungarees were always you know,

1949
01:43:43,200 --> 01:43:44,200
Speaker 7: the underwear was showing.

1950
01:43:44,280 --> 01:43:48,360
Speaker 6: It was every single thing. If they were yo, MTV

1951
01:43:48,560 --> 01:43:51,640
Speaker 6: wraps was all they cared about. That was you know,

1952
01:43:51,840 --> 01:43:55,320
Speaker 6: that was their life. But I knew it right then.

1953
01:43:55,360 --> 01:43:57,519
Speaker 7: As soon as I said that, when those words came

1954
01:43:57,560 --> 01:44:00,519
Speaker 7: out of my mouth, I said, it's me usic business

1955
01:44:00,560 --> 01:44:02,960
Speaker 7: is changing because if I can't stand that, it's going

1956
01:44:03,040 --> 01:44:04,360
Speaker 7: to be the biggest thing and then it works.

1957
01:44:04,360 --> 01:44:04,559
Speaker 5: Wow.

1958
01:44:04,640 --> 01:44:04,800
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1959
01:44:05,680 --> 01:44:08,880
Speaker 1: So probably the biggest lesson that I learned, I mean,

1960
01:44:09,760 --> 01:44:12,600
Speaker 1: the point where I realized like, oh, this is a

1961
01:44:12,760 --> 01:44:14,519
Speaker 1: lesson that I have to learn is the fact that

1962
01:44:15,640 --> 01:44:20,400
Speaker 1: you have to walk away from it and really just

1963
01:44:20,600 --> 01:44:24,320
Speaker 1: let go. Which to think about that right now for

1964
01:44:24,439 --> 01:44:27,080
Speaker 1: me is like that's one of the scariest things because

1965
01:44:27,240 --> 01:44:30,439
Speaker 1: you think like this is all I have, Like this

1966
01:44:30,560 --> 01:44:33,760
Speaker 1: is all you know, I don't have a lineage or

1967
01:44:33,840 --> 01:44:37,200
Speaker 1: that sort of thing, and it's just like, well, I've

1968
01:44:37,320 --> 01:44:39,560
Speaker 1: made a commitment to the music business, so this is

1969
01:44:39,640 --> 01:44:46,080
Speaker 1: all I've got. I mean, at what point did you, like,

1970
01:44:46,200 --> 01:44:48,160
Speaker 1: did it take having to go to the hospital where

1971
01:44:48,160 --> 01:44:48,800
Speaker 1: it's just no, no.

1972
01:44:48,920 --> 01:44:52,679
Speaker 7: Mine was completely different. I had a I've always done

1973
01:44:52,720 --> 01:44:56,120
Speaker 7: knee jerk reactions. I've never been a planner. I planned

1974
01:44:56,120 --> 01:44:58,800
Speaker 7: for my artists, for my own life. I've always you know,

1975
01:44:58,840 --> 01:45:01,040
Speaker 7: I wake up in the morning, I really act. And

1976
01:45:01,160 --> 01:45:05,120
Speaker 7: I had a premiere at Universal Studios for one of

1977
01:45:05,160 --> 01:45:09,799
Speaker 7: my movies, Big red Carpet premiere, Cleague, Lights of Flying

1978
01:45:09,920 --> 01:45:12,439
Speaker 7: and you know all that stuff. And I was bored

1979
01:45:12,479 --> 01:45:16,439
Speaker 7: to death, like so bored, you know, I just couldn't

1980
01:45:16,439 --> 01:45:19,880
Speaker 7: wait to get out of there, go see CNN do anything.

1981
01:45:19,920 --> 01:45:21,720
Speaker 7: But it was, you know, the same old, same old,

1982
01:45:21,800 --> 01:45:22,400
Speaker 7: same old for me.

1983
01:45:23,120 --> 01:45:26,320
Speaker 6: And the next day I flew to Mallion.

1984
01:45:26,439 --> 01:45:29,280
Speaker 7: I was alone on my hammock having a drink at sunset,

1985
01:45:29,360 --> 01:45:34,560
Speaker 7: and every molecule in my body was ecstatic, like ecstatic.

1986
01:45:34,640 --> 01:45:38,400
Speaker 7: I can't even describe how happy. And I said to myself,

1987
01:45:38,439 --> 01:45:44,160
Speaker 7: you know, you're miserable there, you're happy here.

1988
01:45:44,920 --> 01:45:45,599
Speaker 6: What are you doing?

1989
01:45:47,000 --> 01:45:50,599
Speaker 7: It's pretty simple, like what's life all about. I worked

1990
01:45:50,640 --> 01:45:54,920
Speaker 7: so hard to get happy and I found what makes

1991
01:45:54,960 --> 01:45:56,080
Speaker 7: me happy, and I'm not doing it.

1992
01:45:56,880 --> 01:45:59,160
Speaker 6: And I went to the office about four days later

1993
01:45:59,240 --> 01:46:01,719
Speaker 6: and resigned from everybody and told them the story.

1994
01:46:01,840 --> 01:46:04,599
Speaker 1: And I said, you know, you don't have a fear

1995
01:46:04,640 --> 01:46:10,160
Speaker 1: of missing out? We call it. You didn't have a because.

1996
01:46:10,080 --> 01:46:12,799
Speaker 7: It's to me, it was sort of false gods anyway,

1997
01:46:13,880 --> 01:46:17,840
Speaker 7: you know, it's it's it's like fool's gold. I mean,

1998
01:46:17,840 --> 01:46:21,559
Speaker 7: I've always had that awareness that we're in the entertainment business.

1999
01:46:21,600 --> 01:46:24,479
Speaker 7: It really doesn't matter, and it is sort of fool's gold.

2000
01:46:24,920 --> 01:46:27,360
Speaker 7: And it's fun and it's great and it provides great stuff,

2001
01:46:27,400 --> 01:46:33,640
Speaker 7: but it's not you know, it's not curing cancer. And

2002
01:46:33,960 --> 01:46:37,360
Speaker 7: and for me as a manager, when I also realizes

2003
01:46:37,439 --> 01:46:39,720
Speaker 7: that I had up until that point, I had spent

2004
01:46:39,800 --> 01:46:42,880
Speaker 7: my life living other people's lives and I had no

2005
01:46:43,040 --> 01:46:46,000
Speaker 7: idea what my life actually was like. If I'm if

2006
01:46:46,040 --> 01:46:47,640
Speaker 7: I don't have to go to the office, am I

2007
01:46:47,680 --> 01:46:49,400
Speaker 7: going to be bored to death? Am I going to

2008
01:46:49,600 --> 01:46:52,479
Speaker 7: like myself? Am I going to hate myself? Maybe I'm

2009
01:46:52,479 --> 01:46:54,640
Speaker 7: going to get married like I always wanted to do,

2010
01:46:54,720 --> 01:46:58,080
Speaker 7: but I never had never happened let me find out

2011
01:46:58,240 --> 01:47:01,479
Speaker 7: what my journey is made. What I found out is

2012
01:47:01,560 --> 01:47:06,759
Speaker 7: that there's no difference, Like my life is absolutely not different,

2013
01:47:07,000 --> 01:47:10,880
Speaker 7: retiring not retiring. I probably if I got a second

2014
01:47:10,960 --> 01:47:13,080
Speaker 7: life and could do it again, I probably wouldn't retire.

2015
01:47:13,840 --> 01:47:15,920
Speaker 7: I would find a way to have the two live

2016
01:47:16,479 --> 01:47:20,120
Speaker 7: with each other, because there were great advantages for me

2017
01:47:20,280 --> 01:47:24,120
Speaker 7: to be in the traffic. I still love to think

2018
01:47:24,200 --> 01:47:28,200
Speaker 7: of something and then make it happen, to create something

2019
01:47:28,280 --> 01:47:30,240
Speaker 7: out it it doesn't exist. And I did a big

2020
01:47:30,320 --> 01:47:33,719
Speaker 7: benefit Monday night for a chef, Roger Verger with about

2021
01:47:33,760 --> 01:47:36,360
Speaker 7: twenty chefs. And in the early days I could do

2022
01:47:36,479 --> 01:47:39,360
Speaker 7: that with the staff in my office so I could

2023
01:47:39,400 --> 01:47:39,800
Speaker 7: think of it.

2024
01:47:40,439 --> 01:47:42,439
Speaker 6: Now it's just me, so the.

2025
01:47:42,560 --> 01:47:46,479
Speaker 7: Effort is gigantic, the result is probably less than it

2026
01:47:46,600 --> 01:47:47,880
Speaker 7: might be with the great staff.

2027
01:47:49,080 --> 01:47:50,360
Speaker 6: And I still do the same stuff.

2028
01:47:50,439 --> 01:47:51,639
Speaker 5: But you're not retired either.

2029
01:47:51,880 --> 01:47:54,360
Speaker 6: Technically you're not my manage Alice, But in my brain

2030
01:47:54,400 --> 01:47:54,960
Speaker 6: I thought it was.

2031
01:47:56,560 --> 01:47:59,120
Speaker 1: With the chefs. I mean, he's taking himself out of that,

2032
01:48:00,080 --> 01:48:04,280
Speaker 1: out of the hustle bustle, Like did you personally have

2033
01:48:04,360 --> 01:48:06,080
Speaker 1: a one on one with all your clientele?

2034
01:48:06,280 --> 01:48:07,720
Speaker 7: Was it just like I called everybod I did it

2035
01:48:07,800 --> 01:48:12,200
Speaker 7: on the phone. I called them all the only Luther

2036
01:48:13,320 --> 01:48:15,200
Speaker 7: who I hadn't spoken to in a couple of years,

2037
01:48:16,080 --> 01:48:18,120
Speaker 7: was it? The only one that was sort of upset?

2038
01:48:18,760 --> 01:48:19,120
Speaker 6: All right?

2039
01:48:19,640 --> 01:48:22,680
Speaker 7: And then when I was so I woke, I got

2040
01:48:22,720 --> 01:48:25,479
Speaker 7: back to La. I called Alice and I said, where

2041
01:48:25,520 --> 01:48:27,720
Speaker 7: are you? He said in LA? I said, will you

2042
01:48:27,800 --> 01:48:29,680
Speaker 7: picked me up today for lunch? Because I want to

2043
01:48:29,680 --> 01:48:33,280
Speaker 7: get really drunk and I don't want to drive. And

2044
01:48:33,360 --> 01:48:34,840
Speaker 7: he said, what's wrong? And I said, nothing wrong, but

2045
01:48:34,840 --> 01:48:36,960
Speaker 7: I'm going to resigne from everybody but not you. But

2046
01:48:37,760 --> 01:48:40,760
Speaker 7: and I really don't. I want to get whacked. And

2047
01:48:41,840 --> 01:48:44,920
Speaker 7: so I called all the clients. Everybody was and I

2048
01:48:45,000 --> 01:48:46,880
Speaker 7: told the truth. You know, I said, I want to

2049
01:48:46,880 --> 01:48:49,160
Speaker 7: find out who I am. I have no idea what

2050
01:48:49,280 --> 01:48:51,080
Speaker 7: my life is now. Oh were you at this point?

2051
01:48:51,280 --> 01:48:56,120
Speaker 7: I was fifty seven fifty six, maybe fifty five fifty six.

2052
01:48:56,400 --> 01:48:57,880
Speaker 5: How much grace time do you give them?

2053
01:48:58,080 --> 01:48:58,120
Speaker 4: Like?

2054
01:48:58,400 --> 01:48:58,679
Speaker 1: Okay?

2055
01:48:58,720 --> 01:49:00,439
Speaker 7: So what I said to him was, you know, you

2056
01:49:00,560 --> 01:49:03,840
Speaker 7: can use the office, use my guys if you want.

2057
01:49:05,080 --> 01:49:08,160
Speaker 7: So I was still, yeah, I can find you somebody

2058
01:49:08,240 --> 01:49:10,240
Speaker 7: else if you'd like. I'll give you a list.

2059
01:49:10,280 --> 01:49:12,439
Speaker 6: I'll go to the interviews with you and really help

2060
01:49:12,479 --> 01:49:13,040
Speaker 6: you get through it.

2061
01:49:13,520 --> 01:49:15,920
Speaker 7: I just I got to find out who I am.

2062
01:49:16,640 --> 01:49:19,439
Speaker 7: You know, this is for me, not about you. And

2063
01:49:20,240 --> 01:49:24,559
Speaker 7: everybody was happy. Luther wasn't, but he sort of understood.

2064
01:49:25,479 --> 01:49:27,560
Speaker 7: And as I was leaving the office with Alice, the

2065
01:49:27,600 --> 01:49:31,559
Speaker 7: phone rang and my secretary said, you got to take

2066
01:49:31,600 --> 01:49:33,479
Speaker 7: this call. And I said, I'm not taking any more calls.

2067
01:49:33,760 --> 01:49:38,120
Speaker 7: It's over done. I'm going there and said, no, no,

2068
01:49:38,400 --> 01:49:40,600
Speaker 7: you really got to take this call. And it was

2069
01:49:40,640 --> 01:49:45,800
Speaker 7: George Harrison who had just found the basement tapes that

2070
01:49:45,960 --> 01:49:48,960
Speaker 7: John Lennon song for You as a Bird, And he said,

2071
01:49:50,479 --> 01:49:51,680
Speaker 7: do you think any record.

2072
01:49:51,439 --> 01:49:52,639
Speaker 6: Company will put this stuff out?

2073
01:49:53,160 --> 01:49:57,280
Speaker 1: And I said, do I think any Beetles? Get out

2074
01:49:57,320 --> 01:49:57,479
Speaker 1: of here?

2075
01:49:57,520 --> 01:49:59,320
Speaker 7: He turned out to be close to right. It was

2076
01:49:59,360 --> 01:50:03,360
Speaker 7: a fight, a fight, a real tough fight, but for.

2077
01:50:03,439 --> 01:50:04,839
Speaker 1: You guys to get a new Beatles.

2078
01:50:04,920 --> 01:50:08,920
Speaker 7: Capital didn't want to resign him. What it was it was,

2079
01:50:09,560 --> 01:50:12,120
Speaker 7: it's a long it's a whole other story and it's a.

2080
01:50:12,120 --> 01:50:14,599
Speaker 1: Long one, but it was Gary gerse Era Capital.

2081
01:50:15,600 --> 01:50:19,439
Speaker 6: I hired Garriott Capital when at that during that.

2082
01:50:20,080 --> 01:50:20,840
Speaker 1: Do you see what I mean?

2083
01:50:21,720 --> 01:50:22,040
Speaker 6: During that?

2084
01:50:22,120 --> 01:50:23,760
Speaker 1: Do you know this guy named Gary gerc he.

2085
01:50:23,880 --> 01:50:27,240
Speaker 6: Was during that period of time, during that period of time.

2086
01:50:27,640 --> 01:50:30,320
Speaker 6: So anyway, I ended up.

2087
01:50:31,880 --> 01:50:34,479
Speaker 7: Making the deal with Capital, which wasn't easy for him,

2088
01:50:34,840 --> 01:50:38,400
Speaker 7: and doing working on the BBC tapes and the anthology,

2089
01:50:39,840 --> 01:50:43,240
Speaker 7: and Luther freaked out. You told me you were resigning,

2090
01:50:44,720 --> 01:50:47,439
Speaker 7: now you're doing the bet. He found out, I have

2091
01:50:47,520 --> 01:50:49,960
Speaker 7: no idea. He rewrote his biography and took me out

2092
01:50:49,960 --> 01:50:53,120
Speaker 7: of it. I was very heavily in the first printing.

2093
01:50:54,200 --> 01:50:55,240
Speaker 7: The second print.

2094
01:50:57,320 --> 01:51:10,280
Speaker 1: I didn't, Oh my god, well, I'm more amazed that

2095
01:51:11,120 --> 01:51:12,600
Speaker 1: a new Beatles.

2096
01:51:12,240 --> 01:51:14,720
Speaker 6: Song well as a There's a long history here. So

2097
01:51:14,800 --> 01:51:17,080
Speaker 6: here's sort of the let me give you the cover

2098
01:51:17,240 --> 01:51:21,200
Speaker 6: of it. Here's the cover. Capital E.

2099
01:51:21,400 --> 01:51:24,240
Speaker 7: M I an electronics company that happened to be in

2100
01:51:24,280 --> 01:51:27,639
Speaker 7: the music business, but Thorny m I was the core

2101
01:51:27,720 --> 01:51:33,000
Speaker 7: of their business. They made refrigerators, defence stuff. They were

2102
01:51:33,040 --> 01:51:40,160
Speaker 7: basically a science patent owner company. And they hired a

2103
01:51:40,240 --> 01:51:42,400
Speaker 7: guy named They bought a company from a fellow named

2104
01:51:42,600 --> 01:51:47,240
Speaker 7: Colin Southgate and made him chairman of Thorny m I

2105
01:51:47,400 --> 01:51:54,160
Speaker 7: part of the purchase. He gets the job. He's in

2106
01:51:54,240 --> 01:51:57,200
Speaker 7: the job for three weeks. He goes what they call

2107
01:51:57,400 --> 01:52:00,840
Speaker 7: Wall Street in England, the Street. So he goes to

2108
01:52:00,920 --> 01:52:03,880
Speaker 7: make his first speech to the street and the announcement

2109
01:52:04,080 --> 01:52:08,839
Speaker 7: is that they've resigned the Beatles in the press conference.

2110
01:52:09,080 --> 01:52:12,879
Speaker 7: During the press conference, as he's saying we resigned the Beatles,

2111
01:52:13,479 --> 01:52:16,400
Speaker 7: a warrant server comes up to him and gives them

2112
01:52:16,400 --> 01:52:17,800
Speaker 7: a lawsuit for the Beatles to.

2113
01:52:17,840 --> 01:52:18,679
Speaker 6: Get off the label.

2114
01:52:21,000 --> 01:52:24,879
Speaker 7: This is his first time as head of the company

2115
01:52:25,320 --> 01:52:28,960
Speaker 7: addressing the street. So for him, I never want to

2116
01:52:29,000 --> 01:52:32,800
Speaker 7: see the Beatles when the contract's over, get rid of

2117
01:52:32,840 --> 01:52:36,639
Speaker 7: the Beatles. Don't ever want him near here. Can't stand them,

2118
01:52:37,120 --> 01:52:41,920
Speaker 7: hate them, So now the contract's up. At that point,

2119
01:52:42,840 --> 01:52:46,960
Speaker 7: guys who are running the company were more interested in

2120
01:52:47,080 --> 01:52:51,719
Speaker 7: their bonuses than in you know, they shut the black

2121
01:52:51,800 --> 01:52:55,920
Speaker 7: music department at Capitol Records, like just to get to

2122
01:52:56,000 --> 01:53:01,439
Speaker 7: their bonuses. If they would be wanted forty two million

2123
01:53:01,479 --> 01:53:04,320
Speaker 7: dollars to re sign, which they deserved, if they had

2124
01:53:04,360 --> 01:53:07,040
Speaker 7: given him that money, they wouldn't have gotten their bonuses.

2125
01:53:07,520 --> 01:53:11,439
Speaker 7: So I had the chairman, the president, and the vice

2126
01:53:11,520 --> 01:53:14,080
Speaker 7: predident all against reciting the Beatles.

2127
01:53:14,600 --> 01:53:18,679
Speaker 1: And it was wild to them. It's more of a headache.

2128
01:53:18,880 --> 01:53:20,280
Speaker 7: Yeah, they didn't want to deal with it, just didn't

2129
01:53:20,280 --> 01:53:21,920
Speaker 7: and they didn't care. They wanted their bonus that I

2130
01:53:21,920 --> 01:53:23,160
Speaker 7: could They couldn't care less.

2131
01:53:23,439 --> 01:53:25,680
Speaker 1: I couldn't imagine none of the Beatles' music being on

2132
01:53:25,800 --> 01:53:28,040
Speaker 1: any other labels other than Capital.

2133
01:53:28,160 --> 01:53:28,320
Speaker 5: Yeah.

2134
01:53:28,960 --> 01:53:32,840
Speaker 6: Oh, anyway, it made it work, but wow, it was.

2135
01:53:33,000 --> 01:53:33,800
Speaker 6: It was pretty wild.

2136
01:53:34,080 --> 01:53:39,200
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I mean, you know, I can go on

2137
01:53:39,600 --> 01:53:43,960
Speaker 1: forever and ever, but you know, all good things come

2138
01:53:44,000 --> 01:53:44,400
Speaker 1: to an end.

2139
01:53:44,800 --> 01:53:46,800
Speaker 6: Yeah, and uh, this was fun, guys.

2140
01:53:47,960 --> 01:53:49,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, this has like been the greatest.

2141
01:53:50,760 --> 01:53:53,479
Speaker 2: This is man So one question I did have, So, now,

2142
01:53:53,960 --> 01:53:58,160
Speaker 2: you know, what does managing Alice Cooper look like now

2143
01:53:58,320 --> 01:53:59,720
Speaker 2: like on a day to day basis.

2144
01:53:59,479 --> 01:54:00,800
Speaker 6: Well, I don't.

2145
01:54:01,040 --> 01:54:04,000
Speaker 7: It doesn't occupy the whole day, but I still wake

2146
01:54:04,120 --> 01:54:07,400
Speaker 7: up in the morning thinking about how to enhance his career,

2147
01:54:08,120 --> 01:54:09,960
Speaker 7: and I go to sleep at night thinking about how

2148
01:54:10,000 --> 01:54:10,800
Speaker 7: to enhance the career.

2149
01:54:11,760 --> 01:54:12,720
Speaker 6: Recently, we just.

2150
01:54:14,520 --> 01:54:17,040
Speaker 7: Put him in a band with Johnny Depp that I created,

2151
01:54:17,560 --> 01:54:19,879
Speaker 7: which was great for his profile.

2152
01:54:20,000 --> 01:54:21,720
Speaker 6: Great john it was. It was a win win.

2153
01:54:21,840 --> 01:54:25,000
Speaker 7: Johnny's a musician who always wanted a tour. I'm always

2154
01:54:25,040 --> 01:54:28,599
Speaker 7: looking for a way to make Alice current and give

2155
01:54:28,640 --> 01:54:32,800
Speaker 7: it an extra twist, so that was perfect. Now we're

2156
01:54:32,880 --> 01:54:35,480
Speaker 7: running in for president. We have a great campaign for

2157
01:54:35,880 --> 01:54:45,160
Speaker 7: get Alice elected, and he's on the Wild Party. His

2158
01:54:45,320 --> 01:54:51,080
Speaker 7: platform is gradual marks on a fifty dollars bill. Let

2159
01:54:51,160 --> 01:54:55,080
Speaker 7: me on Mount Rushmore. Wow, one selfie allowed a year

2160
01:54:57,360 --> 01:55:00,440
Speaker 7: prison sentence for anyone talking in a movie theater. Okay,

2161
01:55:01,520 --> 01:55:02,480
Speaker 7: that's just platform.

2162
01:55:02,960 --> 01:55:09,400
Speaker 6: So it's you know, Alice is everybody in their life

2163
01:55:09,400 --> 01:55:11,040
Speaker 6: should have a relationship like Alice.

2164
01:55:11,920 --> 01:55:15,360
Speaker 7: It's just we've it's been an amazing forty five years

2165
01:55:15,360 --> 01:55:18,160
Speaker 7: and he gives me the freedom to fail, which gives

2166
01:55:18,160 --> 01:55:19,760
Speaker 7: me the freedom to be creative.

2167
01:55:21,280 --> 01:55:25,960
Speaker 1: Well, I I have to say, uh, you are probably,

2168
01:55:26,360 --> 01:55:32,040
Speaker 1: I mean, the textbook guru of of of all gurus.

2169
01:55:32,240 --> 01:55:38,280
Speaker 1: I mean, there's there's no person that I've not made

2170
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Speaker 1: watch this documentary over and over again, and and you've

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Speaker 1: been very very generous, uh and and your wisdom and everything.

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Speaker 1: I really would like to thank you Shep Gordon for

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Speaker 1: just being here man, Thank you, thank you, thank you

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Speaker 1: for doing Christ loves to bring you guys.

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Speaker 6: You're ready really problem.

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Speaker 1: Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This classic

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Speaker 1: episode was produced by the team at Landoran. For more

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Speaker 1: podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or

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Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.