1 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:11,360 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Savor Prediction of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 2: I'm Annie Read and I'm Lauren vogel Bum and today 3 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:16,919 Speaker 2: we have an episode for you about vegetable shortening. 4 00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:21,720 Speaker 1: Yes, and it is our first episode of twenty twenty six. 5 00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:25,200 Speaker 1: You came out swinging with this. 6 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 2: Yeah I did. I was like, why not challenge yourselves? 7 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:30,080 Speaker 2: And then I was like, why did I challenge yourselves that? 8 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:32,839 Speaker 2: But yeah, here we are. 9 00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:40,120 Speaker 1: Here we are, and we have a lot of science 10 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:43,640 Speaker 1: to go through. I love when it's a very science 11 00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:47,280 Speaker 1: specific episode, and then in the history section, I'm trying 12 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:54,279 Speaker 1: my darnedest to to explain it in very simple terms, 13 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:58,960 Speaker 1: but I know that you've got the yeah, yeah details, Yeah, 14 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:00,680 Speaker 1: it's uh yeah. 15 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:03,920 Speaker 2: I love you know our are We always have a 16 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:07,679 Speaker 2: pretty full outline for our episodes, and I love it 17 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:12,880 Speaker 2: when there are an equal page count for my science 18 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:17,959 Speaker 2: section and your history section. I'm like, oh, oh, I 19 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:21,160 Speaker 2: just gave my because I'm the one who suggests the 20 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 2: topics generally, so I was like, oh, I just gave 21 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:27,200 Speaker 2: myself a lot of homework, didn't I Oh, okay, that 22 00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 2: was sure? Did that was a choice. 23 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:34,440 Speaker 1: It was a choice. I uh, we're going to get 24 00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:39,200 Speaker 1: into this more. Usually, Chrisco is probably the first thing 25 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:41,959 Speaker 1: people think about. A lot of people think about with 26 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:45,280 Speaker 1: the vegetable shortenings. I don't recall it being in my house. 27 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 1: We were a very big margarine householder, which I think 28 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:53,800 Speaker 1: we talked about in the Margarine episode. I don't recall 29 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:56,280 Speaker 1: Crisco at all. 30 00:01:57,040 --> 00:02:00,280 Speaker 2: Oh oh, I definitely grew up with crisco. Uh. My 31 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:08,040 Speaker 2: mother and her mother were big bakers and big home bakers, 32 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:13,320 Speaker 2: and they there was always a tub of crisco around. I. 33 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 2: In fact, remember I must have been like five or 34 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:19,520 Speaker 2: six years old really horrifying my mother by just like 35 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:22,520 Speaker 2: taking a finger full of crisco out of the tub 36 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:23,320 Speaker 2: and just eating it. 37 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 3: You know. 38 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:26,360 Speaker 2: I was just curious about what it would be like, 39 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:34,400 Speaker 2: and it was gross now, you know, Yeah, but you know, 40 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 2: you don't know until you do the experiment. 41 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 1: Obviously, science and action science action. 42 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 2: Yes, even at a young age. Oh goodness. Well, you 43 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:53,440 Speaker 2: can see our episodes about other cooking fats, mostly butter 44 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 2: and yes, margarine, but also ghee. You could do a 45 00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:01,799 Speaker 2: side quest into non dairy creamer are more like American 46 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:06,680 Speaker 2: dairy industry drama. Also various baked goods like shortbread and 47 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:09,840 Speaker 2: making patties. Those are two recent ones. I'm sure maybe 48 00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:14,160 Speaker 2: meat pies or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. And as 49 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:16,640 Speaker 2: a side note, I just I really love my job 50 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:19,000 Speaker 2: and the years that I've spent here, because when I 51 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:24,240 Speaker 2: search for hydrogenated the term hydrogenated in my computer files, 52 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:27,519 Speaker 2: I come back with all of these Savor episode notes. 53 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:30,680 Speaker 2: But then also this old text stuff script about carbon fiber, 54 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:34,360 Speaker 2: and I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely, that makes perfect sense. 55 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 1: The research you never know. 56 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:41,600 Speaker 2: Where, thank you, you never know never. 57 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:46,680 Speaker 1: Yes, But I guess that brings us to our question. Sure, 58 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:52,720 Speaker 1: vegetable shortening what is it? 59 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:58,280 Speaker 2: Well, Vegetable shortening is a category of culinary use fats 60 00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 2: that are solid at room temperature and are made from 61 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 2: plant oils. When we use the term vegetable shortening these days, 62 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 2: we usually mean like an industrially produced, shelf stable, neutral flavored, 63 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:17,960 Speaker 2: extra fat dense option like the brand Crisco. These vegetable 64 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:22,839 Speaker 2: shortenings wind up being like scupably semisoft and sort of 65 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 2: plastic in texture and pure to slightly translucent white in color, 66 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:32,480 Speaker 2: with yeah, like no real odor or flavor. They're used 67 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:35,360 Speaker 2: as an ingredient in baking to make dose that are 68 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:40,240 Speaker 2: crumbly to tender, not chewy, and as the fat for 69 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 2: frying foods. They are an alternative to animal based fats 70 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:49,599 Speaker 2: like lard and butter in that they're vegetarian, they're flavorless, 71 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:54,240 Speaker 2: they're cheaper, and again in the common parlance, they're very 72 00:04:54,360 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 2: shelf stable and stay fresher longer. They are extremely manufactured 73 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:05,240 Speaker 2: and extremely effective at what they do. They're like an 74 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:12,279 Speaker 2: anthropomorphic chrome robot, the just the gleaming and terrible fat 75 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 2: of the future. 76 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 1: Huh Yeah, I don't know whether they'd be terrified or 77 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:22,200 Speaker 1: are happy. 78 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:27,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, it's somewhere in there. Yeah, Okay, we're not 79 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 2: getting sponsored by Crisco anytime soon. It's it's only a 80 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:39,360 Speaker 2: little bit horrific, just in the in the processed way anyway. 81 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:40,159 Speaker 1: Okay. 82 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:44,680 Speaker 2: The term shortening more broadly refers to any type of 83 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 2: fat that is solid at room temperature, and that includes 84 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:53,120 Speaker 2: lard and butter and margarine these days. As said, when 85 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:55,760 Speaker 2: someone uses the word shortening, they are probably referring to 86 00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:59,719 Speaker 2: shelf stable vegetable shortening made from a blend of neutral 87 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 2: ly flavored oils like those from soybeans, corn oil, palms, coconuts, peanuts, 88 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:10,000 Speaker 2: sunflower seeds, cotton seeds or seeds of the mustard family, 89 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:13,360 Speaker 2: which are called rape seed oil or canola oil, which 90 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:17,760 Speaker 2: I have to remind myself of constantly. Anyway, Yes, vegetable 91 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:22,960 Speaker 2: shortenings are generally produced to be basically one hundred percent fat, 92 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:25,720 Speaker 2: like getting rid of all of the other stuff that 93 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 2: you might get in those other shortenings, like proteins and 94 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:33,039 Speaker 2: water and flavor and color, which for example, make up 95 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 2: about twenty percent of something like butter or margarine. However, 96 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:40,920 Speaker 2: you can find vegetable shortenings that are flavored or colored 97 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 2: to resemble butter. Also, they do often contain a small 98 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:50,600 Speaker 2: amount of like emulsifiers and antioxidants like as preservatives, so 99 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:53,320 Speaker 2: most people do not eat them straight out of the 100 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:56,680 Speaker 2: tub as I once did. What are they used for? 101 00:06:57,440 --> 00:07:01,279 Speaker 2: The broader category of shortening is so named because these 102 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:04,640 Speaker 2: solid fats can be used to make what's called short 103 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 2: dose short here, meaning crumbly or flaky and tender, not 104 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 2: like stretchy and chewy as in a short crust pastry. 105 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:17,680 Speaker 2: These solid fats can be incorporated into a dough by 106 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:21,240 Speaker 2: cutting them into your flour and stuff. Cutting refers to 107 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:25,040 Speaker 2: like using blades, you know, manually two knives or maybe 108 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:28,040 Speaker 2: a food processor, or if your accident prone, just your 109 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:31,239 Speaker 2: fingers to create little like pebbles or granules of fat 110 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:34,000 Speaker 2: and flour so that the fat winds up coating the 111 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:37,560 Speaker 2: flower particles and thus preventing the glutens in them from 112 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 2: absorbing water and linking up into a big, stretchy matrix. 113 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 2: This keeps the glutens short and the resulting baked good tender. 114 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 2: Vegetable shortening is also used as a medium for frying 115 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:54,360 Speaker 2: foods because again it's inexpensive and shelf stable and vegetarian, 116 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 2: and can also with stand higher heat than a lot 117 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:03,160 Speaker 2: of other fats without burning. Food production using shelf stable 118 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:05,840 Speaker 2: shortening can also help extend the shelf life of your 119 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:12,119 Speaker 2: finished products. Basically, shortening is inert. It just doesn't really 120 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 2: interact with air. It doesn't contain water or sugar or 121 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 2: proteins for microbes to live off of, so it doesn't 122 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:23,960 Speaker 2: spoil like butter or liquid oils can, or not as quickly. Anyway. 123 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:28,120 Speaker 2: There are many specific varieties of vegetable shortenings that are 124 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 2: made for processed food production. You know, for everything from 125 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:36,960 Speaker 2: frying potato chips or doughnuts, to baking puff pastry or cakes, 126 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:41,520 Speaker 2: to making the cream filling for sandwich cookies. Yeah, that 127 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:46,040 Speaker 2: cream with no A in it cre em. Yeah, some 128 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:49,640 Speaker 2: of these may come in liquid form. The terminology is confusing, 129 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:53,800 Speaker 2: but yeah, for consumer purchase, vegetable shortening is sold in 130 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 2: cylindrical tubs or like butter type sticks, both typically found 131 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 2: in the baking aisle. But let's get into some of 132 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:06,439 Speaker 2: this science, because all right, shortening is made from seed oils. 133 00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:10,080 Speaker 2: Seed oils are liquid at room temperature, and the whole 134 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:14,560 Speaker 2: appeal of shortenings is that they're solid. So you have 135 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:18,959 Speaker 2: to make the liquid oils crystallize. How does that do? 136 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:23,440 Speaker 2: There are two chemical processes that scientists have come up 137 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:29,600 Speaker 2: with to make it happen, hydrogenation and interestorification. Hydrogenation was 138 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:32,640 Speaker 2: the original, the other one with the really long name 139 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:35,840 Speaker 2: is newer. And all right, I am not a chemist 140 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:40,400 Speaker 2: or any other kind of like accredited science human, but 141 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:44,640 Speaker 2: here's how I understand these processes work. In both, what 142 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:48,840 Speaker 2: you're trying to do is bring these unsaturated, these liquid 143 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 2: fats into a state of saturation. You're making them harder. 144 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:57,000 Speaker 2: You're raising the temperature at which they want to be 145 00:09:57,120 --> 00:10:03,160 Speaker 2: liquid to room temperature or a all right. In hydrogenation, 146 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:07,040 Speaker 2: this involves passing hydrogen through the liquid oil in the 147 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:10,120 Speaker 2: presence of some kind of catalyst that will encourage some 148 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:14,880 Speaker 2: of those hydrogen atoms to form bonds with some hydrocarbon 149 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:19,640 Speaker 2: molecules in the oil, which changes the chemical structure which 150 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:26,160 Speaker 2: raises that melting point. In inter esterification, you're rearranging or 151 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 2: replacing some of the bits and bobs within a fat molecule, 152 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 2: specifically some of the fatty acids that are attached to 153 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:39,880 Speaker 2: the kind of backbone of glycerol of the fat molecule. 154 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:43,960 Speaker 2: You can do this either chemically or with enzymes. The 155 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:47,079 Speaker 2: idea is to reform the fat molecule so that it 156 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:50,280 Speaker 2: will have a higher melting point, but sort of like 157 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:54,880 Speaker 2: gently using the properties of the different fatty acids that 158 00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:58,160 Speaker 2: are involved. This is where by understanding of the whole 159 00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:03,359 Speaker 2: thing breaks down. But if I'm getting it correctly. In hydrogenation, 160 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:07,360 Speaker 2: you're changing the chemical structures to let them pack together 161 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:12,760 Speaker 2: more effectively and like making them less slippy. Yeah, And 162 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:18,040 Speaker 2: in interesterification you're changing the physical structure, which has the 163 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:22,120 Speaker 2: same effect but can be preferred these days for consumer 164 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:28,200 Speaker 2: health reasons. The problem with hydrogenation is that, okay, so 165 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:33,680 Speaker 2: fully hydrogenated fats are completely saturated, they're completely solid, like 166 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:38,400 Speaker 2: they're too solid. They're they're they're hard, not soft, not scupable, 167 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:41,120 Speaker 2: certainly not like spreadable, the way that you would want 168 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 2: something like margarine to be. Before interestorification was invented, that 169 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:52,000 Speaker 2: the solution to this was partially hydrogenating oils for products 170 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:58,120 Speaker 2: like margarine or shortening. Partial hydrogenation happens to change the 171 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:01,800 Speaker 2: arrangement of atoms inside of a fat molecules to the 172 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:06,440 Speaker 2: trans isomer of that molecule, creating what is thus called 173 00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:12,839 Speaker 2: trans fats. Trans Fats do occur in nature in small amounts, 174 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:16,000 Speaker 2: in things like the fats that you get from ruminant 175 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:22,720 Speaker 2: animals like cattle or goats, but industrial partial hydrogenation creates 176 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 2: like kind of a lot of trans fats, and trans 177 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:30,760 Speaker 2: fats are not great for you. These days, technologies do 178 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:36,000 Speaker 2: exist to blend fully hydrogenated fats with liquid fats to 179 00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:41,960 Speaker 2: produce the desired softness, so hydrogenation is still used in 180 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:47,160 Speaker 2: some shortening products, but more about all that later. No 181 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:51,800 Speaker 2: matter how you have made your vegetable fats capable of 182 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:56,720 Speaker 2: being solid at room temperature. The production of shortening requires 183 00:12:57,160 --> 00:13:01,400 Speaker 2: this really complicated process of crystallization, and that I have 184 00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:04,960 Speaker 2: no idea how it actually works. It's probably real proprietary anyway, 185 00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:07,360 Speaker 2: but from what I from what I understand, you have 186 00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 2: to like cool and scrape and need and rest the 187 00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:15,800 Speaker 2: fat molecules in specific ways to just like convince them 188 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:18,760 Speaker 2: to form up into this stable crystal structure with an 189 00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:23,679 Speaker 2: even texture. If in a different lifetime, I would be really. 190 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:30,200 Speaker 1: Into this m I can see that. I can see that. 191 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:32,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, well. 192 00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 1: What about the nutrition? 193 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:44,559 Speaker 2: Well, indeed, okay, top top line, Like, because vegetable shortenings 194 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:48,040 Speaker 2: are one hundred percent fat, they are very calorie dense, 195 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:52,520 Speaker 2: and they don't provide any other like macro or micronutrients 196 00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:57,040 Speaker 2: to speak of. You know, fats are not necessarily bad 197 00:13:57,080 --> 00:14:01,840 Speaker 2: for you. We in fact need them to live. But 198 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:06,480 Speaker 2: fats are not all created equal. Over the past few decades, 199 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:09,600 Speaker 2: we have learned a lot about different types of fat 200 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:13,200 Speaker 2: and how they interact with our bodies through our diets, 201 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:17,960 Speaker 2: but we still have a lot more to learn. So like, okay, 202 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:23,680 Speaker 2: generally speaking, vegetable oils are considered healthier than animal fats 203 00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:29,840 Speaker 2: because vegetable oils lower your bad LDL cholesterol levels and 204 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:35,240 Speaker 2: raise your good HDL cholesterol levels. Animal fats, on the 205 00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:38,920 Speaker 2: other hand, tend to raise levels of both. The problem 206 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:43,320 Speaker 2: with trans fats that are created through partial hydrogenation is 207 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:50,200 Speaker 2: that those lower your good HDLs and raise your bad LDLs. 208 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:53,960 Speaker 2: So that's that's not aces, that's the opposite of ases. 209 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:56,360 Speaker 2: That's not what you want at all. That is why 210 00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:59,360 Speaker 2: there has been a movement over the past twenty ish 211 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 2: years to remove partially hydrogenated oils from our processed foods. 212 00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:10,720 Speaker 2: Interest Reified fats are still relatively new, and researchers are 213 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:13,600 Speaker 2: still looking into how they work in humans. We're not sure. 214 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:21,240 Speaker 2: We don't know. Fun Yeah, yeah, at any rate. Vegetable 215 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:28,000 Speaker 2: shortening is often used to make treats, and treats are nice. 216 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:31,160 Speaker 1: Treats are nice and necessary sometimes. 217 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:34,160 Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, yes, I you know. As always, we 218 00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 2: want you all to have a nice time. If a 219 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:44,160 Speaker 2: nice time is following your cardiologists' recommendations, then that's great. Yeah. 220 00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:48,320 Speaker 2: If having a treat is it, that's great too. 221 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:53,400 Speaker 1: Yes, we love you all and want you to take 222 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:58,240 Speaker 1: care of yourselves, however that may look. We do have 223 00:15:58,480 --> 00:15:59,520 Speaker 1: some numbers for you. 224 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:04,120 Speaker 2: We do, all right. I've read estimates that put the 225 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:08,600 Speaker 2: market for vegetable shortening from anywhere from around like five 226 00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 2: to sixteen billion dollars a year, the you know market. 227 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:17,560 Speaker 2: I didn't read the full reports because they cost thousands 228 00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:21,200 Speaker 2: of dollars to access, but they are rising. Everyone agrees 229 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:24,440 Speaker 2: with that one. North America and the US in particular 230 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:28,640 Speaker 2: is tied up in around forty percent of those markets 231 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:34,160 Speaker 2: due to our large processed baked goods industry. The European 232 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:37,960 Speaker 2: market and France and Germany in particular is the fastest 233 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:43,480 Speaker 2: growing segment of the market. Soybean oil is the oil 234 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:47,640 Speaker 2: that is most used in these shortenings, followed closely by 235 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:48,520 Speaker 2: palm oil. 236 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:53,680 Speaker 1: Yes, but that was not always the case. 237 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:56,880 Speaker 2: Oh certainly not. And it you know, it may be 238 00:16:57,040 --> 00:16:59,680 Speaker 2: changing in the future. And we are going to get 239 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 2: into all of that in the history section. But first 240 00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:05,159 Speaker 2: we're going to get to a quick break for a 241 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:16,040 Speaker 2: word from our sponsors, and we're back. 242 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:17,280 Speaker 1: Thank you, sponsors, Yes. 243 00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:17,520 Speaker 2: Thank you. 244 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:22,600 Speaker 1: Okay, So I was about to tell Lauren this was 245 00:17:22,600 --> 00:17:27,080 Speaker 1: a really hard episode in terms of staying focused on 246 00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:32,440 Speaker 1: vegetable shortening. On vegetable shortening, do not to go into 247 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 1: the history of all these other things that have had 248 00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:42,760 Speaker 1: a huge impact on vegetable shortening. Which again, other shows 249 00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:46,320 Speaker 1: do that if they dedicate like eight episodes to. 250 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:50,199 Speaker 2: It, right, I salute you, right, yeah, Like like lard 251 00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:56,200 Speaker 2: is gonna have to be a different episode exactly exactly. 252 00:17:56,600 --> 00:17:59,320 Speaker 1: So I was struggling with that throughout all of this. 253 00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:05,440 Speaker 1: But here we go. Shortening in the cooking sense goes 254 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:09,920 Speaker 1: back to at least the seventeen hundreds. Least at least 255 00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:13,359 Speaker 1: it typically referred to fats like butter or oils that 256 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:17,440 Speaker 1: were primarily used in baking. Beginning in the eighteen hundreds, 257 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 1: folks were working on new ways of large adulteration to 258 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:24,520 Speaker 1: make it a more effective shortening, and they were experimenting 259 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:27,120 Speaker 1: with adding things like beef tallow to lard to firm 260 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:29,840 Speaker 1: it up because it was softer than they wanted it 261 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:31,840 Speaker 1: to be, especially during the heat of summer. 262 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 2: Stuff like that. 263 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:37,480 Speaker 1: Yep, and yes, you can see our margarine episode for more. 264 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:39,879 Speaker 1: But that industry really started to get underway in the 265 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:43,080 Speaker 1: US in the eighteen seventies and eighties and was seen 266 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:47,200 Speaker 1: as a direct competitor to lard when it came to shortening. 267 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:50,720 Speaker 1: Around the same time the margarine industry was taking off, 268 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:55,600 Speaker 1: the first patents for vegetable shortenings were being filed. And 269 00:18:55,840 --> 00:18:59,879 Speaker 1: this brings us to yes a brand name you'll recognize 270 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 1: that is often credited with vegetable shortenings rise Crisco. So 271 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:10,639 Speaker 1: when it comes to Crisco specifically, the story goes that 272 00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:14,399 Speaker 1: before the American Civil War, William Proctor, who was a 273 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:17,160 Speaker 1: candle maker, and his brother in law, James Gamble, who 274 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:21,800 Speaker 1: was a soap maker, joined forces to take on fourteen 275 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:27,440 Speaker 1: other competitors in their fields in Cincinnati, Ohio. However, they 276 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:30,359 Speaker 1: ran into a pretty big roadblock when it came to 277 00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:34,000 Speaker 1: the price of lard in tarot, which was controlled by 278 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:37,879 Speaker 1: the meat packing monopoly in Cincinnati in the eighteen nineties. 279 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:42,920 Speaker 1: Both of these were key ingredients into both of their products. 280 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:44,960 Speaker 1: They needed them to make their soap in their candles, 281 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:50,280 Speaker 1: so they got the idea to pivot to vegetable shortening, 282 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 1: which wasn't dependent on the meat industry. They took a 283 00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:57,879 Speaker 1: lot of steps to cement their place in the business, 284 00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:01,639 Speaker 1: especially when it came to the fairly cheap cotton seed 285 00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:05,840 Speaker 1: oil that they used. At the time, the South's cotton 286 00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:08,720 Speaker 1: industry left behind a lot of cotton seeds, and they 287 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:10,720 Speaker 1: were kind of tricky to deal with. No one really 288 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:13,840 Speaker 1: knew what to do with them. Many farmers didn't utilize 289 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:18,400 Speaker 1: them and they just went bad. The oil people did 290 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:22,080 Speaker 1: get out of them was largely an unsatisfactory product in 291 00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:27,440 Speaker 1: the end, Like it smelled bad, it looked bad, Yeah, unpleasant, unpleasant. 292 00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:32,119 Speaker 1: That changed when Chimis David Wesson figured out some techniques 293 00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:35,280 Speaker 1: that could deodorize and bleach the seeds in the late 294 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:39,040 Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds, which resulted in something that was clear and 295 00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:41,800 Speaker 1: tasted pretty neutral when it came to yeah, the tastes 296 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:46,040 Speaker 1: and smell. P and G. Procter and Gamble operated eight 297 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:49,760 Speaker 1: Mississippi based cotton seed oil factories by nineteen oh five, 298 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:51,000 Speaker 1: so they were really. 299 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:54,879 Speaker 2: Like ground level, like at the forefront. Yeah, we're going 300 00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:55,480 Speaker 2: to control this. 301 00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:58,720 Speaker 1: We're not gonna let the meat industry do what they did. 302 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:00,680 Speaker 2: Also, I had no idea that this is where Procter 303 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:01,760 Speaker 2: and Gamble came from. 304 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:06,840 Speaker 1: I love it. Yeah, me either. And they didn't stop there. 305 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:11,280 Speaker 1: P andng enlisted German chemist E. C. Kazer in nineteen 306 00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:15,320 Speaker 1: oh seven to nail down how hydrogenation works and how 307 00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:19,080 Speaker 1: it could help them make a better shortening, and Lauren 308 00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:21,359 Speaker 1: already did the whole explanation, but yes, very basically, they 309 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:25,600 Speaker 1: took some fatty acid chains from the oil, inserted some 310 00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:29,919 Speaker 1: hydrogen atoms, and transformed it into a solid fat with 311 00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:34,800 Speaker 1: a high melting point, so it resembled lard. And for PNG, 312 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:37,640 Speaker 1: that really hammered home the idea that they could sell 313 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:41,359 Speaker 1: this as a food product instead of using it for 314 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:46,320 Speaker 1: candles or soap. They also worked with Wallace mccau who 315 00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:49,480 Speaker 1: in nineteen oh five patented a process for turning cotton 316 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:54,720 Speaker 1: seas into imitation lard. They initially sold their product under 317 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:58,800 Speaker 1: the label Crispo, but there was a trademark dispute some 318 00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:02,680 Speaker 1: trouble there, so then they tried christ but then there 319 00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:07,040 Speaker 1: were concerns about religious affiliations, so eventually they landed on 320 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:11,200 Speaker 1: Crisco Crystallized cottonseed oil. 321 00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:14,199 Speaker 2: Yeah sure, yeah, why not. 322 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:21,080 Speaker 1: Often brands using cotton in their products in a similar way. 323 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:26,280 Speaker 1: They would put cotton somehow in the name of their product, 324 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:29,760 Speaker 1: and researchers actually think that this might have hurt those 325 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:34,760 Speaker 1: products because cotton was associated with very non food items 326 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:38,040 Speaker 1: like clothing. In the US, A lot of this research 327 00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:41,200 Speaker 1: was coming from the US, So people were like, cotton, 328 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:42,680 Speaker 1: what's that doing in. 329 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:44,360 Speaker 2: My food baking products? 330 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:44,960 Speaker 1: Yeah. 331 00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:47,879 Speaker 2: For example, there was an early and pretty popular rival 332 00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:52,080 Speaker 2: brand called Cottoline, which was available around the eighteen eighties, 333 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:54,800 Speaker 2: made of a cottonseed oil and a little bit of 334 00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:59,359 Speaker 2: beef tallow. An ad in the New York Times in 335 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:02,159 Speaker 2: eighteen ninety to touted this as a new kind of 336 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:05,600 Speaker 2: shortening that every housekeeper who was interested in the help 337 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:09,280 Speaker 2: and comfort of her family should try. A longer quote 338 00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:12,320 Speaker 2: from that ad, physicians and cooking experts say, it is 339 00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:14,800 Speaker 2: destined to be adopted in every kitchen in the land. 340 00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:17,359 Speaker 2: This is to suggest that you put it in yours now. 341 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:19,400 Speaker 2: It's both new and good. 342 00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:23,480 Speaker 1: Every kitchen in the land. 343 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:28,640 Speaker 2: Every kitchen in the land, both new and good. Anyway, 344 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:34,679 Speaker 2: Condonline is not a household name today, So. 345 00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:39,679 Speaker 1: No but chrisco is and they notably did not overtly 346 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:42,639 Speaker 1: reference cotton in their name. In fact, they seem to 347 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:45,160 Speaker 1: go out of their way to avoid it. They never 348 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:48,359 Speaker 1: mentioned cottonseed oil in their ads or on their packaging. 349 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:52,560 Speaker 1: They instead said shortening. At the time, there were no 350 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:54,080 Speaker 1: regulations against this. 351 00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:56,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, you didn't have to list your ingredients on the packaging. 352 00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:00,600 Speaker 2: They also did lean pretty heavy into the vegetable with 353 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:06,160 Speaker 2: phrases like strictly vegetable, purely vegetable, or absolutely all vegetable. 354 00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:09,520 Speaker 2: They were one of the first food companies to talk 355 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:12,000 Speaker 2: about vegetable oils in this positive light. 356 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:16,960 Speaker 1: Yes, and when Chrisco was initially introduced to the public 357 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:20,440 Speaker 1: in nineteen eleven, Procter and Gamble launched an ad campaign 358 00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:26,040 Speaker 1: for it, claiming it's vegetable, it's digestible. Some of the 359 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:30,440 Speaker 1: ads also included this line a healthier alternative to cooking 360 00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:35,240 Speaker 1: with animal fats and more economical than butter, and this 361 00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:37,920 Speaker 1: was a clearer swing at their main competitors, butter and lard. 362 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:43,080 Speaker 1: They touted it as economical and cleaner. It was sold 363 00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:45,679 Speaker 1: in tin, it didn't have black specks in it like 364 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:50,200 Speaker 1: something like lard MTE, and it was odorless. Soon after, 365 00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:53,439 Speaker 1: they published a cookbook that detailed the history of Crisco, 366 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:56,639 Speaker 1: and from what I understand, they just gave this away. 367 00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:00,880 Speaker 1: It included over six hundred recipes and all of them, 368 00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:02,199 Speaker 1: of course called for Crisco. 369 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:06,399 Speaker 2: Yeah. This book was entitled A Calendar of Dinners with 370 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:11,359 Speaker 2: six hundred and fifteen recipes by one Marion Harris Neil 371 00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:17,520 Speaker 2: published in nineteen twenty one, and yeah, everything from soups 372 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:21,280 Speaker 2: to cast roles, to desserts with Crisco as the cooking fat, 373 00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:25,080 Speaker 2: fresh salads with Crisco as the fat in the salad dressing, 374 00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:27,840 Speaker 2: Sandwich spreads made with Crisco instead of mayo. 375 00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:35,199 Speaker 1: What a world. The product was pretty popular pretty quickly, 376 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:38,800 Speaker 1: though some sources suggest it did take some convincing at first. 377 00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:40,760 Speaker 1: We'll get into that in more in a second, but 378 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:44,359 Speaker 1: by the early twentieth century, it was cheaper than lard, 379 00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:47,520 Speaker 1: it didn't require refrigeration, it had a high smoke point, 380 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:53,119 Speaker 1: and was widely available. So yes. They also advertised it 381 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:56,760 Speaker 1: to Jewish folks as a kosher alternative to butter and lard. 382 00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:00,119 Speaker 1: In nineteen thirty three, they released a cookbook entitled to 383 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:06,520 Speaker 1: Crisco Recipes for the Jewish Housewife. Within five years of introduction, 384 00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:10,119 Speaker 1: Americans were buying sixty million cans of crisco a year, 385 00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:14,320 Speaker 1: which is pretty wild when you think about it. P 386 00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:18,600 Speaker 1: and G was also able to convince things like big 387 00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:21,000 Speaker 1: booming train lines to switch from lard to crisco. It's 388 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:26,240 Speaker 1: mostly a price point for sharing, but yeah, yeah, stepping back, 389 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:29,399 Speaker 1: a bit. Though P and G tried to patent the 390 00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:34,440 Speaker 1: process involved in making hydrogenated shortenings, their patent was overturned 391 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:38,679 Speaker 1: and other companies started making their own products. By nineteen twelve, 392 00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:44,760 Speaker 1: some competitors were experimenting with different oils like soy. By 393 00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:47,760 Speaker 1: World War One, vegetable shortenings had really taken off in 394 00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:49,719 Speaker 1: the US, helped along by the fact that a lot 395 00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:53,560 Speaker 1: of America's large was being exported to Europe and Americans 396 00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:58,520 Speaker 1: were being encouraged to use vegetable shortening. Meanwhile, the soy 397 00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:00,879 Speaker 1: oil industry really got underway in the US in the 398 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:03,720 Speaker 1: nineteen thirties, which led to it being used more and 399 00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:08,040 Speaker 1: more in vegetable shortenings, and in the ensuing decades, several brands, 400 00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:12,040 Speaker 1: including Crisco, switched from cottonseed oil to soy and or 401 00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:18,760 Speaker 1: palm and canola oils. During the World War II rationing 402 00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:22,840 Speaker 1: of the nineteen forties, Crisco switched to glass jar packaging 403 00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:24,760 Speaker 1: as opposed to the ten that they had been in 404 00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:28,720 Speaker 1: previously that they had been using previously. The first television 405 00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:32,399 Speaker 1: ad for Crisco ran in nineteen forty nine. At the 406 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:36,040 Speaker 1: same time, Americans were encouraged to switch to vegetable shortenings 407 00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:39,000 Speaker 1: and oils instead of butter and oil. Yes. During both 408 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:44,000 Speaker 1: of the World Wars. Chrisco released a butter flavored version 409 00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:48,040 Speaker 1: of the product in nineteen eighty one, which I'm very 410 00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:48,719 Speaker 1: interested in. 411 00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:51,399 Speaker 2: You can go purchase it right now if you would 412 00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:51,600 Speaker 2: like to. 413 00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:58,720 Speaker 1: Oh go Okay. Beginning in the nineteen eighties, there were 414 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:02,320 Speaker 1: a few health campaign that called for switching from things 415 00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:05,480 Speaker 1: like palm and coconut oil or beef fats to partially 416 00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:09,560 Speaker 1: hydrogenated oils, which included things like vegetable shortening. 417 00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:13,920 Speaker 2: Yeah. There was a concept at the time that these 418 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:20,680 Speaker 2: partially hydrogenated oils, these artificially saturated fats, were healthier than 419 00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:23,800 Speaker 2: naturally saturated fats. 420 00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:30,120 Speaker 1: Yes, and these campaigns were pretty successful. Several fast food 421 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:35,960 Speaker 1: chains switched to partially hydrogenated soybean oil. Some research around 422 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:41,640 Speaker 1: this time declared that trans fats were actually good for you. However, 423 00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:45,680 Speaker 1: starting in the nineties, there were growing health concerns around 424 00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:50,280 Speaker 1: trans fats. Over the next few decades, some countries limited 425 00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:54,720 Speaker 1: or outright band trans fats. Brands like Crisco and Cooking 426 00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:59,200 Speaker 1: reformulated their vegetable shortening products to contain little to know 427 00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:01,720 Speaker 1: trans In response. 428 00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:05,840 Speaker 2: It was a kerfuffle. Amidst all of. 429 00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:11,200 Speaker 1: This, JM. Schmucker the company purchase Crisco in two thousand 430 00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:11,520 Speaker 1: and two. 431 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:14,400 Speaker 2: Yep, Proctor and Gamble were like, probably no, no more 432 00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:20,040 Speaker 2: of this, you take it sure. Then announced in two 433 00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:22,120 Speaker 2: thousand and three, and starting in two thousand and six, 434 00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:27,880 Speaker 2: the FDA made producers list the amount of transfats in 435 00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:31,760 Speaker 2: their foods right on the nutrition label added line any 436 00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:34,800 Speaker 2: transfats in there rights. 437 00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:40,080 Speaker 1: And several companies were successfully sued due to lack of 438 00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:45,480 Speaker 1: transparency around the amount of transfat in their products. The 439 00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:49,040 Speaker 1: whole thing is complicated, to say the least. 440 00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:53,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, in the US, all of this culminated in the 441 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:59,160 Speaker 2: FDA determining in twenty fifteen that partially hydrogenated oils are 442 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:03,320 Speaker 2: not general only recognized is safe, and that therefore, for 443 00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:06,640 Speaker 2: the good of public health, they cannot be used as 444 00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:11,720 Speaker 2: an ingredient in manufactured foods. The final compliance deadline to 445 00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:16,160 Speaker 2: stop using them was January first of twenty twenty one. 446 00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:23,560 Speaker 2: And yeah, so you know, companies like Crisco and competitors 447 00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:29,680 Speaker 2: started using these other technologies, interest hoorification and some new 448 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:36,320 Speaker 2: blending methods of fully hydrogenated oils with liquid oils to yeah, 449 00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:41,040 Speaker 2: work out whatever texture situations they were aiming for. Recently, 450 00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:45,320 Speaker 2: the cost of vegetable oils has been rising, and there's 451 00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:52,440 Speaker 2: been increasing consumer demand for fairly traded oils or more 452 00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:56,200 Speaker 2: sustainable options, with an eye toward palm oil in particular. 453 00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:00,120 Speaker 2: But yeah, it's just more stuff for the companies that 454 00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:04,920 Speaker 2: make these products to contend with. As within all of 455 00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:10,080 Speaker 2: our kind of like dairy adjacent episodes, I'm super fascinated 456 00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:16,239 Speaker 2: by all of the scientific and political drama surrounding all 457 00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:16,560 Speaker 2: of this. 458 00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:23,120 Speaker 1: Yes, again, this was a hard one to wrangle into. 459 00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:26,560 Speaker 1: I cannot go down all of these rabbit holes that 460 00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:31,480 Speaker 1: I desperately want to go down. But there's a lot 461 00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:36,320 Speaker 1: connected to this one of issues of yeah, palm oil 462 00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:41,880 Speaker 1: or science or yeah, the dairy industry. Again, listen to 463 00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:44,120 Speaker 1: our Margine episode if you haven't already. But that was 464 00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:45,560 Speaker 1: a huge fight. 465 00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:49,240 Speaker 2: Oh absolutely, and also tying into stuff that we talked 466 00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:53,600 Speaker 2: about in our sugar episodes and in our Miracle Berry 467 00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:57,480 Speaker 2: episode about just the fights that were occurring amongst the 468 00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:03,240 Speaker 2: like fat versus sugar, which is bad you yea industrial 469 00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:11,760 Speaker 2: complexes here in the US, and yeah. 470 00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:15,000 Speaker 1: Well and just also having the certain countries having different 471 00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:18,000 Speaker 1: rules of how much transfat or no trans fat can 472 00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:20,280 Speaker 1: be in anything, and how these companies deal with that. 473 00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:26,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a lot, it is. It is many many 474 00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:30,800 Speaker 2: side quests for future times and dates, yes, But. 475 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:34,400 Speaker 1: In the meantime we came out, as I said, swinging 476 00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:39,280 Speaker 1: with this one. But we would love to hear your thoughts, listeners. 477 00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:43,160 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, do you have any memories? Do you 478 00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:46,520 Speaker 1: have any recipes? Do you have Crisco memories? 479 00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:48,640 Speaker 2: Do you have some in your cabinet right now? 480 00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:50,080 Speaker 1: Yeah? 481 00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:52,800 Speaker 2: Do you have a strong feeling about the texture as 482 00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:54,320 Speaker 2: it is now versus how it used to be? 483 00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:57,920 Speaker 1: I did read some of those articles. People have opinions. 484 00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:00,880 Speaker 1: People have opinions, and we would love to yours, listeners. 485 00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:04,040 Speaker 1: But that's what we have to say about vegetable shortening 486 00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:04,480 Speaker 1: for now. 487 00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:07,760 Speaker 2: It is. We do already have some listener mail for you, though, 488 00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:09,160 Speaker 2: and we're going to get into that as soon as 489 00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:11,120 Speaker 2: we get back from one more quick break forward from 490 00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:23,640 Speaker 2: our sponsors. And we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you. 491 00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:34,680 Speaker 1: And we're back with a listener man. Yes, okay, so 492 00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:37,760 Speaker 1: this is fun. We have two messages about you logs. 493 00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:43,200 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yes, always, even if we're past the holidays, 494 00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:47,240 Speaker 1: please keep these messages coming. We know you listen to 495 00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:49,960 Speaker 1: them whenever. And also we're a little behind on listener mail, 496 00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:53,880 Speaker 1: so yeah yeah, and this is you know, we wanted 497 00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:58,520 Speaker 1: to hear about it, and you have made sure to 498 00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:04,240 Speaker 1: make sure that we did. Okay, So Steph wrote you 499 00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:07,680 Speaker 1: asked for it several times, so you get it. Here's 500 00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:10,879 Speaker 1: the bouche d noel I made last year. I used 501 00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:13,560 Speaker 1: it as a chance to practice icing point setias to 502 00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:18,840 Speaker 1: mixed success. This year, I'm simplifying and going with an 503 00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:24,160 Speaker 1: apple pie. All right, this it looks good. Your point 504 00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:27,080 Speaker 1: is one point to me? Yeah they look super cute. 505 00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:28,439 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yes. 506 00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:31,360 Speaker 2: Attached is a is a photograph of a little little 507 00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:35,760 Speaker 2: two branch mule log and yeah, many many cute little 508 00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:39,799 Speaker 2: red icing point setias and some little cute white flowers 509 00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:42,919 Speaker 2: on there as well. Yeah, looks like a log. 510 00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:48,239 Speaker 1: I also love that you Maybe this is just how 511 00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:52,240 Speaker 1: I do apple pie, but simplifying with an apple pie 512 00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:57,880 Speaker 1: m But maybe you have a Maybe you have a 513 00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:02,360 Speaker 1: recipe that's not as complicated as mine. 514 00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:06,480 Speaker 2: I have two. I have two main apple pie categories, 515 00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:09,400 Speaker 2: and one is like extremely fussy, and the other is 516 00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:11,640 Speaker 2: I'll mix this together with my hands and then a 517 00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:17,400 Speaker 2: dumped it and a pock crust. So yeah, yeah, well. 518 00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:21,520 Speaker 1: I think this was a complete success from the picture. Yeah, 519 00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:25,759 Speaker 1: and I hope that the simplifying with the apple pie 520 00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:26,160 Speaker 1: went well. 521 00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:29,799 Speaker 2: Oh oh absolutely. I always hope that apple pies have 522 00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:32,880 Speaker 2: gone well. Gosh, I love an apple pie simple, so nice. 523 00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:38,080 Speaker 2: Kelsey wrote, I'm listening to your ulug episode right now. 524 00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:41,000 Speaker 2: I don't have a ton of experience with them, However, 525 00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:43,719 Speaker 2: I did once help my cousin and his friend make 526 00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:46,560 Speaker 2: one for their French class. They were making the batter 527 00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:49,239 Speaker 2: and it was just so thin and watery, and they 528 00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:52,239 Speaker 2: weren't sure why. They tried adding more flour, but it 529 00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:55,120 Speaker 2: still wasn't right. Eventually they decided to scrap it and 530 00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:57,480 Speaker 2: start over. They asked me to tell them each step 531 00:35:57,520 --> 00:35:59,239 Speaker 2: of the recipe to make sure they got it right. 532 00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:04,160 Speaker 2: I got to water. My cousin said two cups, right, No, 533 00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:08,959 Speaker 2: I said two tablespoons. The second attempt came out great. 534 00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:12,400 Speaker 2: Perhaps one day I'll attempt at myself, once I've recovered 535 00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:19,839 Speaker 2: from baking a zillion short bread cookies for Christmas. Yeah, 536 00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:23,280 Speaker 2: cuts to tablespoons. Uh huh, yep, that'll that's that found 537 00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:24,959 Speaker 2: your problem right there. Yeah. 538 00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:26,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, well at least they solved it. 539 00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:34,040 Speaker 3: Sure, yeah, great, yeah, yeah, you know, it happens it 540 00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:37,719 Speaker 3: one time my friend we were making gingerbread cookies and 541 00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:40,040 Speaker 3: she was measuring right over the batter. 542 00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:43,279 Speaker 1: Oh no, and the whole top fell off, you know, 543 00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:45,000 Speaker 1: and just ginger. 544 00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:50,040 Speaker 2: Oh that's a lot. I mean yep, yeah, I mean 545 00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:53,000 Speaker 2: I like ginger. And that sounds like probably that was 546 00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:54,080 Speaker 2: not useful dough. 547 00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:58,120 Speaker 1: No, it's sad when you have to scrap it, you know. 548 00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:02,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, you're like, oh, ingredients, So I'm sorry, guys. 549 00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:05,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, I let you down, Let you down. 550 00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:10,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, I once forgot the difference between a clove and 551 00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:17,640 Speaker 2: a head of garlic. No, yeah, oh no is the 552 00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:22,359 Speaker 2: correct response. Oh no, we really had to air out 553 00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:26,760 Speaker 2: my apartment. It was fine. 554 00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:31,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's bad news. We've all been there. 555 00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:39,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, and we air out our apartments exactly, exactly. 556 00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:43,839 Speaker 1: Well, thanks so much to both of these listeners you're 557 00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:45,440 Speaker 1: writing in. If you would like to write to us, 558 00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:47,560 Speaker 1: we would love to hear from you. Our email is 559 00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:50,640 Speaker 1: hello at saborpod dot com. We are also on social media. 560 00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:53,600 Speaker 1: You can find us on Blue Sky and Instagram at 561 00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:55,480 Speaker 1: saber pod and we do hope to hear from you. 562 00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:58,800 Speaker 2: Savor is production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from my 563 00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:02,239 Speaker 2: Heart Radio, you can visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 564 00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:04,920 Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Thanks as 565 00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:07,760 Speaker 2: always to our super producers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. 566 00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:09,920 Speaker 2: Thanks to you for listening, and we hope that lots 567 00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:19,239 Speaker 2: more good things are coming your way