1
00:00:07,120 --> 00:00:19,400
Speaker 1: Ah, beaut Force. If it doesn't work, you're just not

2
00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:25,440
Speaker 1: using enough. You're listening to Software Radio Special Operations, military

3
00:00:25,520 --> 00:01:08,880
Speaker 1: news and straight talk with the guys and the community

4
00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:15,080
Speaker 1: Software Radio on Time on Target. Uh. Last episode, we

5
00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:18,319
Speaker 1: had the revisiting the nine eleven memorial, which I did

6
00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:20,679
Speaker 1: with Brandon Webb. So though I thought it was a

7
00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:24,480
Speaker 1: really powerful episode. But we're actually recording this as well

8
00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:28,000
Speaker 1: on September eleven. Sean Parnell is in studio. I definitely

9
00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:30,800
Speaker 1: want to talk about Man of War, the second book

10
00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:33,640
Speaker 1: that you've written, but the first novel, you know, the

11
00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:35,800
Speaker 1: first was about some guys that you served. But I

12
00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:38,039
Speaker 1: think before you would get into that, just the fact

13
00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:40,800
Speaker 1: that we're in New York City on the seventeenth anniversary

14
00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:42,959
Speaker 1: of nine eleven, like I think would be interesting just

15
00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:45,280
Speaker 1: to hear about like where you were and and for

16
00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:48,480
Speaker 1: you guys really changed the course of your life. So yeah,

17
00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:50,880
Speaker 1: you want me to start. Yeah, So I was a

18
00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:53,480
Speaker 1: sophomore in college, you know, I think I was. I

19
00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:56,320
Speaker 1: think back in the day, I was an elementary education major.

20
00:01:56,640 --> 00:01:58,280
Speaker 1: I didn't really know what I wanted to do with

21
00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:00,400
Speaker 1: my life. I mean, the only thing I would really

22
00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:02,360
Speaker 1: focused on was like trying to figure out what beer

23
00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:03,720
Speaker 1: I was going to get my hands on that night,

24
00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:06,000
Speaker 1: you know, because I was like still under twenty one.

25
00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:08,600
Speaker 1: And then I remember waking up, you know, on a

26
00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:11,720
Speaker 1: beautiful September morning, you know, laying flat on my back

27
00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:13,959
Speaker 1: and just run down a college apartment with these beer

28
00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:16,359
Speaker 1: cans all around me. And I sat up and like that,

29
00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:18,400
Speaker 1: sat up in the world is spinning, had the hangover

30
00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:21,320
Speaker 1: of a lifetime, And I remember staggering over to the

31
00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:23,679
Speaker 1: television set, turning it on, watching it flicker to life

32
00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:25,760
Speaker 1: just on time to see an airplane crash into the

33
00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:29,720
Speaker 1: World Trade Center. Yeah, it was pretty crazy. I and

34
00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:32,680
Speaker 1: I feel like there are moments in your life where

35
00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:37,680
Speaker 1: you have just this unbelievable clarity, you know, and and

36
00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:40,400
Speaker 1: in that moment, for me, in the wake of the

37
00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:42,680
Speaker 1: most horrific terrorist attack in our nation's history, it was

38
00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:44,840
Speaker 1: like I knew exactly what I was supposed to do

39
00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:46,480
Speaker 1: with my life, you know, and it was to serve

40
00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:49,919
Speaker 1: something greater than myself. Joined the infantry, go to airborne school,

41
00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:52,080
Speaker 1: go to ranger school. I really did want to be,

42
00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:56,240
Speaker 1: you know, in a conventional light infantry on the front lines,

43
00:02:56,440 --> 00:02:59,680
Speaker 1: taking the fight to the enemy. And you know, I

44
00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:03,040
Speaker 1: got I became a brand new second lieutenant in uh

45
00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:05,000
Speaker 1: in May of two thousand and four, was at the

46
00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:08,120
Speaker 1: tenth Mountain Division, you know. And two thousand and five,

47
00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:10,359
Speaker 1: after my training and a year and a half later,

48
00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:13,240
Speaker 1: we were in Afghanistan for four eighty five days of combat.

49
00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:15,480
Speaker 1: And it was I mean, this was this was at

50
00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:17,800
Speaker 1: a time back in two thousand five, two thousand and six,

51
00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:21,200
Speaker 1: when Afghanistan was just a stability and support operation. We

52
00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:23,960
Speaker 1: were not getting in my unit any intelligence from the

53
00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:27,040
Speaker 1: front none. I mean, the eyes of this of the nation,

54
00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:30,760
Speaker 1: We're wholeheartedly focused on what was going on in Iraq?

55
00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:33,280
Speaker 1: Should we or should we not be there? Should we

56
00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:37,000
Speaker 1: send should should the surge happen or not? Um? And

57
00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:39,520
Speaker 1: we weren't getting anything from the front, and so we

58
00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:41,720
Speaker 1: went and I feel like when we got to Afghanistan, man,

59
00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:43,440
Speaker 1: we had no idea what we were getting ourselves into.

60
00:03:43,480 --> 00:03:46,000
Speaker 1: We were well trained and we were ready, but I

61
00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:50,000
Speaker 1: mean we weren't fighting, uh, you know, farmers with pitchforks.

62
00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:54,800
Speaker 1: We were fighting you know, hardened Islamic extremists, you know

63
00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:59,160
Speaker 1: Hakani network, heck Mardi or Taliban al Quaeda, whatever. Is

64
00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:01,440
Speaker 1: this the period of time that when the insurgency was

65
00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:03,720
Speaker 1: really starting to ramp up in Afghanistan, because I was

66
00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:07,160
Speaker 1: there this summer of oh four oh five, and honestly

67
00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:09,760
Speaker 1: it's fairly quiet, yep, the same you know most of

68
00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:12,400
Speaker 1: my n c O. S and Michael Tune Uh, you

69
00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:15,680
Speaker 1: know in Michael Tune starting. Uh, they were there in

70
00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:17,920
Speaker 1: O four and oh five with the tenth Mountain Division,

71
00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:21,000
Speaker 1: and I think that they were in j Bad in Gosney,

72
00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:23,760
Speaker 1: and they said that nothing was going on most of

73
00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:27,000
Speaker 1: the time. They were just bored, you know. And when

74
00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:31,120
Speaker 1: we ripped out with uh, the one seventy three Airborne,

75
00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:32,480
Speaker 1: those were the guys that were in our in our

76
00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:34,960
Speaker 1: base before us we came in. They were like you

77
00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:36,640
Speaker 1: could see the look on their eyes. And these guys

78
00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:38,880
Speaker 1: one seventy third, you know, for people that are listening,

79
00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:41,839
Speaker 1: they're legit infantry, they're they're they're amazing. I mean, they're

80
00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:45,400
Speaker 1: born the Airborne light Infantry. They're incredible. And they were

81
00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:47,119
Speaker 1: just like, you have no idea what you're getting yourself

82
00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:49,120
Speaker 1: into here where that was like not what you want

83
00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:51,760
Speaker 1: to hear when you first, you know, and we were

84
00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:54,560
Speaker 1: like okay, And I remember Ryan Kennedy who was just

85
00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:57,400
Speaker 1: a one heck of an officer. Was our company commander,

86
00:04:58,160 --> 00:04:59,360
Speaker 1: was or was a scene or I think it was

87
00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:00,920
Speaker 1: a senior lieuten in the company. But it had been

88
00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:03,760
Speaker 1: a tune leader in Burmel District, which is where I

89
00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:06,239
Speaker 1: wasn't Afghanistan, which is about forty five minutes north of skin.

90
00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:09,159
Speaker 1: In our areas is to patrol that border area and

91
00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:10,800
Speaker 1: closed with and destroy the enemy. That was our only

92
00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:13,760
Speaker 1: mission back then. I mean, And he was showing me

93
00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:15,880
Speaker 1: some of the videos and of the firefights that they

94
00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:18,960
Speaker 1: were in, and it was just like no joke, a

95
00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:22,400
Speaker 1: conventional infantryman's dream, so naturally, like early on, I was

96
00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:26,000
Speaker 1: like really excited to see what combat would be like.

97
00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:28,120
Speaker 1: You know, as an infantryman, that's what you sign up for.

98
00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:30,400
Speaker 1: You get to go do your job. Yeah yeah, yeah,

99
00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:33,560
Speaker 1: And you know, oh man, did we did we get

100
00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:35,120
Speaker 1: our We get a chance to find out. I mean,

101
00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:37,479
Speaker 1: the guys that fought us in that border air, in

102
00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:40,520
Speaker 1: that border region, every single firefight that we were in,

103
00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:43,279
Speaker 1: we were outnumbered at least two to one. I mean,

104
00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:45,080
Speaker 1: I mean, and these guys were good. I think our

105
00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:47,000
Speaker 1: first ambush that we were caught in was an l

106
00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:50,119
Speaker 1: shaped ambush. We're coming around a mountaintop. The enemy waited

107
00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:52,080
Speaker 1: for us to dip down into this waddy system in

108
00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:54,320
Speaker 1: this hill, knowing that our calms were line of sight.

109
00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:58,080
Speaker 1: You know, they're very Afghan, very very good at this.

110
00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:01,800
Speaker 1: They're they're amazing, and they they hit us simultaneously. They

111
00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:04,279
Speaker 1: they qully fired RPGs from either side of our convoy,

112
00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:07,040
Speaker 1: hit my front truck, hit my lead truck, stopped them

113
00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:09,479
Speaker 1: both in their place, effectively trapped us in this like,

114
00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:12,919
Speaker 1: you know, look like what a gravy poor on Thanksgiving.

115
00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:14,400
Speaker 1: We're trapped in the bottom of this bowl. We're just

116
00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:16,839
Speaker 1: getting pounded on all sides of three three minute pekm

117
00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:19,640
Speaker 1: machine guns hitting us from each side. And I'm just thinking,

118
00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:21,240
Speaker 1: oh my god, I got a year and a half

119
00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:23,440
Speaker 1: of this and so all of that, all of that

120
00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:25,720
Speaker 1: because you know, September eleven, right, and I wanted to

121
00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:29,600
Speaker 1: take the fight to the enemy, and so um five

122
00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:32,560
Speaker 1: days of combat was just was rough. It's hard, and

123
00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:35,599
Speaker 1: end up being medically retired thereafter. And a lot of

124
00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:37,920
Speaker 1: that is detailed in your first book, right, Yeah, yeah,

125
00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:39,480
Speaker 1: I mean out loobal Tune, that's what it is. I mean,

126
00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:41,920
Speaker 1: it's just a story of my soldiers, you know, like

127
00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:45,800
Speaker 1: without loobal tune. You know, as I mentioned earlier, the

128
00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:48,440
Speaker 1: eyes of this nation, we're focused on Iraq. It was funny, like,

129
00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:49,880
Speaker 1: my guys, you know, how you go home on R

130
00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:52,560
Speaker 1: and R throughout a deployment, and what they do in

131
00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:54,760
Speaker 1: the in the conventional infantry is they look at the

132
00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:57,880
Speaker 1: term of your deployment and say, okay, like first squad

133
00:06:57,960 --> 00:07:02,200
Speaker 1: picked days from you know, say May fourth to July two,

134
00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:04,960
Speaker 1: and for you know, everybody would rotate on leave. That way,

135
00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:06,760
Speaker 1: you guys would go home on leave and Americans will

136
00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:08,159
Speaker 1: be like, oh, thank you for your service. You know,

137
00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:11,040
Speaker 1: where were you where you deployed, And they'd be like Afghanistan,

138
00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:13,600
Speaker 1: and Americans would be like, oh gosh, you know, thank

139
00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:15,760
Speaker 1: god you're not in Iraq because it's just like so

140
00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:17,920
Speaker 1: dangerous over there. My guys would come back and be like,

141
00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:20,280
Speaker 1: oh my god, no one even knows I just got

142
00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:21,960
Speaker 1: shot in the head last week. No one even knows

143
00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:23,880
Speaker 1: what the heck is going on over there. And so

144
00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:25,800
Speaker 1: I just thought to myself, I gotta write this book, man.

145
00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:28,480
Speaker 1: I got to make sure that their legacy is you know,

146
00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:31,240
Speaker 1: written down on the page, and Americans can pick this

147
00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:33,200
Speaker 1: book up a hundred years from now and and learn

148
00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:35,080
Speaker 1: about what my guys went through over there. And that

149
00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:37,840
Speaker 1: was that was the catalyst and the reason behind writing

150
00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:40,400
Speaker 1: that story. Kind of the boots on the ground infantry

151
00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:44,920
Speaker 1: experience that you know, they tried to capture and like

152
00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:49,880
Speaker 1: Oliver Stone tried to capture and platoon or yeah, for real,

153
00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:51,960
Speaker 1: I mean that's that's that's what out laval tune. There's

154
00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:54,760
Speaker 1: no politics and out level tune. It's just a warts

155
00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:56,880
Speaker 1: and all story, you know. And you know, for me,

156
00:07:57,800 --> 00:07:59,440
Speaker 1: you know, I was a young lieutenant man and I

157
00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:03,600
Speaker 1: didn't really anything. I was so lucky to have, you know,

158
00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:06,120
Speaker 1: non commissioned officers that taught, coached and mentored me every

159
00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:07,920
Speaker 1: step of the way. They had every reason in the

160
00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:11,120
Speaker 1: world to ostracize me in some office someplace and just say, sir,

161
00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:13,360
Speaker 1: do PaperWorks, shut up, don't get anybody hurt, don't just

162
00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:16,160
Speaker 1: actually just keep your mouth closed. But they didn't, Man,

163
00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:17,680
Speaker 1: they didn't. I mean these are guys that had two

164
00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:20,200
Speaker 1: or three combat deployments already under their belts. I mean,

165
00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:22,520
Speaker 1: their boots had more experience in the military than I did.

166
00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:25,400
Speaker 1: But they just were the best. You know, my soldiers

167
00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:27,160
Speaker 1: included not just my n c O s. They just

168
00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:30,880
Speaker 1: made sure that that I knew what what it meant

169
00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:34,320
Speaker 1: to be a servant leader. And you know, I was

170
00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:36,280
Speaker 1: really really lucky to be around them. And I thought,

171
00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:38,800
Speaker 1: you know, when you when I was medically retired out

172
00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:40,559
Speaker 1: of the military, I thought to myself, you know that

173
00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:43,840
Speaker 1: the charge of command or leadership is not something that

174
00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:46,440
Speaker 1: you should relinquish, even though you hang up your uniform.

175
00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:48,480
Speaker 1: It's something that's life long to and you know, it's

176
00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:51,760
Speaker 1: a leader's job to keep that sense of collective identity

177
00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:53,360
Speaker 1: of a unit in tax so that when they come

178
00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:56,200
Speaker 1: home they still feel like they're part of a team.

179
00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:57,880
Speaker 1: You know, so many, so many of the issues that

180
00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:00,360
Speaker 1: are veterans facing this country today, or because they you know,

181
00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:02,960
Speaker 1: they feel isolated when they come home. And if you

182
00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:06,480
Speaker 1: think about it, like guys trained to go to war together, shoot,

183
00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:08,640
Speaker 1: move and communicate together as a team. Then you go

184
00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:10,560
Speaker 1: to war and you fight, bleed, and you die together.

185
00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:13,440
Speaker 1: And then you come home and everybody goes or separate ways.

186
00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:15,080
Speaker 1: They either get out of the military or they go

187
00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:17,880
Speaker 1: to a different duty assignment PCs or whatever. It just

188
00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:20,040
Speaker 1: runs contrary to every to the way we were trained.

189
00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:22,040
Speaker 1: So part of my job, I think as a leader

190
00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:24,120
Speaker 1: is to keep that sense of collective identity attact and

191
00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:26,360
Speaker 1: by putting their story on the page. And that was

192
00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:29,040
Speaker 1: what out Labatoon was. Yeah. I get the sense that

193
00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:33,360
Speaker 1: sense from my Odier team leader as well. He tries

194
00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:35,800
Speaker 1: to like hold things together a little bit for people.

195
00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:39,360
Speaker 1: He's a good guy. But last year went to a

196
00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:41,240
Speaker 1: memorial for one of the guys on our team who

197
00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:44,520
Speaker 1: killed himself, and while I was there, I met this

198
00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:49,400
Speaker 1: other um green beret who had been my friend's best

199
00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:51,479
Speaker 1: man at his wedding and then had been his pullbearer

200
00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:53,959
Speaker 1: when he died. Oh my god, and this guy he

201
00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:57,720
Speaker 1: was a young, young guy, and I found out that

202
00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:01,720
Speaker 1: he died unexpectedly a week ago. And I'm so sorry

203
00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:05,440
Speaker 1: to hear that. It's just it's the you know, like

204
00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:07,960
Speaker 1: you said, warts and all. I love the military, and

205
00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:10,440
Speaker 1: I and uh, I have a lot of fond memories

206
00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:12,120
Speaker 1: about it. But it's like these sorts of things are

207
00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:14,040
Speaker 1: the one time that I look at it and I

208
00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:16,040
Speaker 1: kind of wonder, like did I do the right thing

209
00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:18,800
Speaker 1: joining the military, because these guys are dying so young?

210
00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:22,240
Speaker 1: Well exactly, And and it's if you look at it

211
00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:25,240
Speaker 1: for like just even from like an existential standpoint. When

212
00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:27,240
Speaker 1: you go into the military and you start and you

213
00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:29,800
Speaker 1: you start your training, you know, even just as a

214
00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:33,000
Speaker 1: conventional infantry guy, you learned to move as a collective team.

215
00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:36,920
Speaker 1: You become each other. And so when these guys come

216
00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:39,360
Speaker 1: home and the journey from home, a journey journey back

217
00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:42,200
Speaker 1: home from war begins. And it's something that has transcended

218
00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:44,679
Speaker 1: culture and time. Since there's been war, men have come

219
00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:47,440
Speaker 1: home from it. And so it's something that's not unique

220
00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:49,720
Speaker 1: to American culture. It's something that's far deeper than that.

221
00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:52,800
Speaker 1: And you know, it's you know, when guys come home

222
00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:56,000
Speaker 1: and they lose their life, and it's not in a

223
00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:59,280
Speaker 1: smoking hot pile of brass. And I mean seriously, as

224
00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:01,040
Speaker 1: an infantry man, if I gotta go down like that,

225
00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:04,199
Speaker 1: like so, I'm ready, so be, it's part of the job, right,

226
00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:07,520
Speaker 1: And but when you come home and guys take their

227
00:11:07,559 --> 00:11:09,680
Speaker 1: life and they lose that fight here at home, it's

228
00:11:09,679 --> 00:11:12,520
Speaker 1: just it's just you lose a part of yourself. And

229
00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:16,520
Speaker 1: and I and so outlowble Tune of my guys, like

230
00:11:16,679 --> 00:11:19,960
Speaker 1: they had two deployments, lost six people total from the

231
00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:23,440
Speaker 1: betune on each of those deployments. But we've lost more

232
00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:25,800
Speaker 1: people in that platune to suicide now than we ever

233
00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:28,920
Speaker 1: did in two deployments of heavy combat. I mean, is

234
00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:32,320
Speaker 1: that not staggering? It's crazy and it I mean that's

235
00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:36,040
Speaker 1: kind of been what my observation also, um and it

236
00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:39,000
Speaker 1: I don't know, it runs contrary. We have this sort

237
00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:41,000
Speaker 1: of self image of ourselves that were like these big

238
00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:44,320
Speaker 1: tough guys were America's alpha males, and there's there's some

239
00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:46,280
Speaker 1: truth to that. But then if you look at like

240
00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:49,079
Speaker 1: the twenty two veterans a day statistic, like these two

241
00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:52,439
Speaker 1: narratives don't make sense because if we're we're really that tough,

242
00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:55,400
Speaker 1: we wouldn't have this problem, right right, right? And well

243
00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:58,320
Speaker 1: you think think about I've got a lot of theories

244
00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:01,400
Speaker 1: and thoughts behind this. But if you think about like

245
00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:05,080
Speaker 1: the way that American warriors look at themselves, regardless of

246
00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:08,800
Speaker 1: what branch they served, uh, they almost look at themselves

247
00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:12,520
Speaker 1: like you know, like the Samurai looked how how Samurai

248
00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:15,120
Speaker 1: looked at themselves? Like they don't they don't see suicide

249
00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:19,680
Speaker 1: as something that is inherently dishonorable, like you know, you

250
00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:22,240
Speaker 1: see guys on on Twitter or Facebook, all the time

251
00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:25,280
Speaker 1: saying see you in Valhalla. They believe that, like, when

252
00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:27,880
Speaker 1: they die, they're gonna dine in Valhalla with their brothers

253
00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:31,640
Speaker 1: that they miss. So, you know, I think that's part

254
00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:35,360
Speaker 1: of the reason why, you know, veterans suicide is so high.

255
00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:38,200
Speaker 1: I think the I think a more important reason is

256
00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:40,800
Speaker 1: that people in this country. Only point four percent of

257
00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:42,599
Speaker 1: this nation served during the longest period of war in

258
00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:46,240
Speaker 1: nation's history, and the people that enjoy freedom on a

259
00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:49,240
Speaker 1: day to day basis are very very far away from

260
00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:52,040
Speaker 1: those who have carried a very heavy burden for a

261
00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:54,240
Speaker 1: long time and those protect freedom. And so guys come

262
00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:56,679
Speaker 1: home and they feel isolated, and they feel like their

263
00:12:56,679 --> 00:12:58,760
Speaker 1: country doesn't really really understand what they went through, and

264
00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:01,680
Speaker 1: they end up feeling like eggs files in their own country. Yeah. Yeah,

265
00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:04,760
Speaker 1: because there's such a disconnect between the two. Yes. Even

266
00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:08,280
Speaker 1: a friend of mine, um, after we served together, he

267
00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:11,439
Speaker 1: went and he worked down in Tampa at a Special

268
00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:15,000
Speaker 1: Operations Command Central and he was like, you know, Jack,

269
00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:16,880
Speaker 1: the reason why this war has gone on so long

270
00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:19,800
Speaker 1: is because the officers who run it, they're not in

271
00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:22,960
Speaker 1: the field. Oh my god, they're down. They come into work,

272
00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:25,320
Speaker 1: they do pt they run the war from nine to

273
00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:27,640
Speaker 1: five and then they get in their BMW and drive home.

274
00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:30,160
Speaker 1: Oh my god, you know what what you just said.

275
00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:32,280
Speaker 1: I never even thought of it, But you're exactly right.

276
00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:35,120
Speaker 1: You know, a lot of the field grade officers and above,

277
00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:38,240
Speaker 1: or maybe even strategic level officers are guys that grew

278
00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:40,800
Speaker 1: up in the nineties, right, and sir, they're they're formidable.

279
00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:42,520
Speaker 1: But tune leader time or n c O time was

280
00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:44,960
Speaker 1: in the nineties when we were in large part, you know,

281
00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:47,800
Speaker 1: outside Panama or whatever. I mean, like a peace time force.

282
00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:50,400
Speaker 1: It's a far cry from like Patton, who was like

283
00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:53,320
Speaker 1: out running his logistics lines, getting way ahead of the

284
00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:55,599
Speaker 1: front and then the rest of the Army would have

285
00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:58,120
Speaker 1: to catch up with him. It's so true. Today's leaders,

286
00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:00,800
Speaker 1: military leaders, they're they're here, they're in the United States,

287
00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:04,800
Speaker 1: they're chilling down in Tampa. I know. It's so true.

288
00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:09,840
Speaker 1: You know, uh that the general officers ship in the

289
00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:12,240
Speaker 1: army has really changed. The culture is changed from the

290
00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:14,280
Speaker 1: patents of the world during World War Two leading the

291
00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:17,679
Speaker 1: charge to you know, sitting in or even Eisenhower wasn't

292
00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:20,280
Speaker 1: necessarily on the front, he was still over there. No,

293
00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:22,960
Speaker 1: it's so true. And you know, these guys, like I

294
00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:26,560
Speaker 1: always like in the guys that are running the war. Um,

295
00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:28,200
Speaker 1: you know, I always liking it to being like an

296
00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:30,880
Speaker 1: an artist. You train your whole life to be a painter,

297
00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:34,840
Speaker 1: and you never had the opportunity to paint, like for example,

298
00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:36,360
Speaker 1: like you're an infestryment, you train your whole life to

299
00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:38,320
Speaker 1: be an infestryman. Now, these guys are generals and they've

300
00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:40,360
Speaker 1: never been in the fight themselves, but they're the ones

301
00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:43,680
Speaker 1: running the show. And so you know, not only do

302
00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:47,120
Speaker 1: you find it disconnect in civilian society between veterans and civilians,

303
00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:49,200
Speaker 1: but you find it in the military too, between the

304
00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:52,000
Speaker 1: general officer leadership and the boots on the ground leaders

305
00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:56,600
Speaker 1: that have been kicking indoors for seventeen years. Um. You know,

306
00:14:56,640 --> 00:14:59,880
Speaker 1: the philosophy from boots on the ground guys that have

307
00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:01,480
Speaker 1: that have been there, done that is it is right,

308
00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:04,160
Speaker 1: it's oftentimes very different than what totally different? Am I

309
00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:06,520
Speaker 1: right about that? And it's even you know, I've discussed

310
00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:08,280
Speaker 1: it on the podcast a little bit in the past,

311
00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:12,200
Speaker 1: the difference between say the infantrymen and um, some of

312
00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:15,120
Speaker 1: the people men and women, patriotic Americans, I want to

313
00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:18,080
Speaker 1: point out, but they serve in more like logistics and

314
00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:21,280
Speaker 1: UM sort of the background role that keeps the gears

315
00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:25,240
Speaker 1: of the military Greece, and they had um worked in

316
00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:29,800
Speaker 1: almost a corporate environment. For like the mentality between you know,

317
00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:32,480
Speaker 1: the guys who are out on patrol in Afghanistan and

318
00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:34,760
Speaker 1: these people who served behind a desk, even though their

319
00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:36,880
Speaker 1: jobs are are really just as important to keep the

320
00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:40,760
Speaker 1: military functioning. Like the mentality is just so different. It's

321
00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:43,440
Speaker 1: like two different worlds. You're totally right. Let me let

322
00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:45,680
Speaker 1: me give you an example of what I think you're

323
00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:49,120
Speaker 1: talking about. So young Coptune leader in Afghanistan, we came

324
00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:51,360
Speaker 1: back from a firefight. One of my squad leaders had

325
00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:53,960
Speaker 1: taken a bullet to the ankle, always bleeding everywhere, and

326
00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:56,040
Speaker 1: I was trying to help him get a tourniquet above

327
00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:57,560
Speaker 1: his ankle when I got some of his blood on

328
00:15:57,600 --> 00:15:59,200
Speaker 1: my kit. Right and go back to the base, and

329
00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:01,880
Speaker 1: it was like, hey, the Red Ring routes coming in. Man,

330
00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:03,760
Speaker 1: like you're going on leave tomorrow, so pack your stuff.

331
00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:05,240
Speaker 1: And god, I'm just like, you got ten minutes pack

332
00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:07,840
Speaker 1: my stuff, My uniforms filthy and disgusting, and I'm flying

333
00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:10,440
Speaker 1: back to Bogram. Right. I got still got blood on

334
00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:12,960
Speaker 1: on my on my kid from one of my squad lers.

335
00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:16,600
Speaker 1: I get off the bird, I walk a hundred yards right,

336
00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:20,360
Speaker 1: and I run into this major who had been at

337
00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:23,560
Speaker 1: BOGRAM the entire time, and he's like, your uniform is

338
00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:26,600
Speaker 1: a disgrace. You need it, you need to I'm like, dude,

339
00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:29,120
Speaker 1: really like like, and I said, I walked around Boggam

340
00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:30,800
Speaker 1: for a day before I went home on leave, and

341
00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:34,160
Speaker 1: I'm like, everybody that's stationed here should be paying the

342
00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:39,560
Speaker 1: army for being in combat leading troops. Well, I mean

343
00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:42,080
Speaker 1: it's just like that. This, it's that, this is that disconnect,

344
00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:44,920
Speaker 1: Like his mind is not even in the same headspace

345
00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:48,120
Speaker 1: as mine. Like people, you know where people are, Hey,

346
00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:50,400
Speaker 1: what time does green bean coffee open? Man? Because I

347
00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:53,200
Speaker 1: want to beat the rush. It's like, yeah, I was

348
00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:56,600
Speaker 1: pooping in a can for a year. There's a big difference, right,

349
00:16:56,680 --> 00:16:59,920
Speaker 1: I'm serious, man, like, and like, if you know, BOGRAM

350
00:16:59,920 --> 00:17:01,800
Speaker 1: is like a corporate environment. I said, you know people

351
00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:03,400
Speaker 1: that are stationed there, you know, God bless a man.

352
00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:05,119
Speaker 1: They're serving their country. They're away from their family. And

353
00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:06,879
Speaker 1: I really don't mean to take anything away from what

354
00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:09,520
Speaker 1: from their service. I don't, but it's a different it's

355
00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:11,159
Speaker 1: a different thing. They should be paying the army to

356
00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:14,480
Speaker 1: go there. It's like there, you walk around, you go

357
00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:17,919
Speaker 1: to these world class gyms, right, seriously, they're really amazing gyms.

358
00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:20,520
Speaker 1: And there are water coolers everywhere with bottled water. I'm

359
00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:23,720
Speaker 1: thinking like this just like Club Med. You know in

360
00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:26,800
Speaker 1: Bogram at that time, there was a Burger King, there was,

361
00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:30,880
Speaker 1: there's I think there's a cinnabon by the cinema. Uh,

362
00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:35,520
Speaker 1: there was the time massage parlor, there was what else

363
00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:37,600
Speaker 1: was there? Yeah, they had Salsa night and all that

364
00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:40,880
Speaker 1: stuff they had. They had hair stylists. In fact, one

365
00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:43,720
Speaker 1: of my my rt o when we came when we

366
00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:45,760
Speaker 1: came back from the ploym and he's like, I'm treating

367
00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:48,280
Speaker 1: myself right, And I'm like, what do you mean. He's like,

368
00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:51,400
Speaker 1: I'm getting waxed. I'm like you're getting waxed. He's like yeah,

369
00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:54,119
Speaker 1: I'm all my body here. I'm like what why why?

370
00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:57,879
Speaker 1: He's like, I'm getting a Brazilian I'm like no, why

371
00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:00,960
Speaker 1: why would you? But so he had the capable to

372
00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:04,520
Speaker 1: get a Brazilian wax. As a man coming back from

373
00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:07,240
Speaker 1: combat in Bogram, I don't think I could walk down

374
00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:09,240
Speaker 1: the streets of New York on this block and find

375
00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:11,040
Speaker 1: somebody to give me a Brazilian not that I would want,

376
00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:16,159
Speaker 1: but this is New York City, man, you know, like

377
00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:19,880
Speaker 1: you don't you had like an entire staff of Russian

378
00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:23,480
Speaker 1: stylists and manicurist and pedicures and bogram and and they

379
00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:26,840
Speaker 1: were filled every single day. Yeah, it's bizarre. I was

380
00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:29,439
Speaker 1: only in Bagram for about maybe five days total, going

381
00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:32,240
Speaker 1: from point A to point B like you, um, but

382
00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:35,200
Speaker 1: there's the they had like the super Jock there for all,

383
00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:39,480
Speaker 1: like the task Force guys, right the camp that all

384
00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:42,800
Speaker 1: the rangers and everyone lived in. I'm not joking. It

385
00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:45,680
Speaker 1: looked like Ashwitz. It was wired up. I know, you're

386
00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:50,160
Speaker 1: exactly right. And it's a lot of guys came home

387
00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:53,800
Speaker 1: from that bullshit bagroom deployment on antidepressants because their lives

388
00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:56,440
Speaker 1: were so miserable there. I don't doubt it at all.

389
00:18:56,680 --> 00:18:59,480
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, you're you're exactly right. It does

390
00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:02,200
Speaker 1: feel like it does feel like that. Like you walk

391
00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:05,120
Speaker 1: past the Special Operations Complex and Bagram, I mean it's

392
00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:07,520
Speaker 1: got this these chain link fences covered by like with

393
00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:12,159
Speaker 1: the screen guard huts everywhere, Triple strand Contratina wire and

394
00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:15,040
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, I get it. It's it's um and

395
00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:17,320
Speaker 1: the chain of command. All those officers up there, like

396
00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:19,920
Speaker 1: the guy that was chewing your ask off the helicopter.

397
00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:21,920
Speaker 1: That's all you have up there, and they're just like

398
00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:25,359
Speaker 1: on these guys balls the entire time. Well, it's like,

399
00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:27,919
Speaker 1: yeah for not having their pt belt on when they

400
00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:30,480
Speaker 1: walk down Disney Drive. Disney Drive is the main drag

401
00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:33,040
Speaker 1: down right the center, down the center of Bagram. But yeah,

402
00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:35,720
Speaker 1: you don't wear your PTE belt there. You get yelled

403
00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:38,800
Speaker 1: at because they know they're on a bullshit non combat deployment,

404
00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:40,560
Speaker 1: but they need to get their O E R bullets.

405
00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:42,960
Speaker 1: So they're doing all kinds of stupid stuff just making

406
00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:45,919
Speaker 1: everyone's life miserable. It's true, It's true. You know, I

407
00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:48,720
Speaker 1: had a I had a an n C O tell

408
00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:52,040
Speaker 1: me very early on as a young leader, like, don't

409
00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:56,760
Speaker 1: be one of those officers that is concerned with with

410
00:19:56,840 --> 00:19:59,840
Speaker 1: only with the bow and never with their wake, right,

411
00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:02,680
Speaker 1: so like, always focus on the here and now, don't

412
00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:05,840
Speaker 1: really worry about what hire tells you. I mean, always

413
00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:08,639
Speaker 1: accomplished their intent. But your job is to accomplish the

414
00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:10,760
Speaker 1: mission and take care of your soldiers. I mean, your

415
00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:12,640
Speaker 1: job as a leader as a platoon there, a young

416
00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:15,600
Speaker 1: platoon leader especially, is to be a bullshit filter. Make

417
00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:18,600
Speaker 1: sure that your men have the space and time to

418
00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:21,840
Speaker 1: train on what matters so that when they go outside

419
00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:24,399
Speaker 1: the wire, they can focus on the mission. Like so

420
00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:26,280
Speaker 1: much of our time in Afghanistan, I mean, as a

421
00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:27,880
Speaker 1: as a leader of my platoon, sergeant and I would

422
00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:29,199
Speaker 1: be would just go down the list and be like,

423
00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:31,280
Speaker 1: I don't need to bother the guys with this. Don't

424
00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:33,640
Speaker 1: need to bother the guys with this either, And so yeah,

425
00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:35,639
Speaker 1: you get your astute for that by your company commander

426
00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:38,120
Speaker 1: if something doesn't get done, But it's worth it because

427
00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:40,840
Speaker 1: your soldiers are able to focus on what they're supposed

428
00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:44,399
Speaker 1: to focus on. As uh as much as I b

429
00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:46,200
Speaker 1: s as I thought I had to deal with as

430
00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:49,280
Speaker 1: a you know, a sergeant or a staff sergeant, I

431
00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:52,760
Speaker 1: realized in retrospective I'm quite infantile in some ways, and

432
00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:55,159
Speaker 1: that I had officers who were protecting me from the

433
00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:58,879
Speaker 1: vast majority of the ship. Yeah, it's crazy, I hated,

434
00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:01,200
Speaker 1: and you know, I love of being a portune leader.

435
00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:02,679
Speaker 1: I think it's the best job in the army. It

436
00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:05,639
Speaker 1: really is for for an officer because you have direct

437
00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:08,000
Speaker 1: contact with your troops every single day. But my least

438
00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:10,359
Speaker 1: favorite part of being a patuni there was like these

439
00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:14,119
Speaker 1: battlefield update briefs, you know, and yeah, the yeah, and

440
00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:15,680
Speaker 1: so like you go in and like all my n

441
00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:17,320
Speaker 1: c s would be like laughing at me because they'd

442
00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:21,760
Speaker 1: be out there like smoking cigarettes or cigars. We get

443
00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:23,960
Speaker 1: back off of a mission and I'd have to go

444
00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:26,160
Speaker 1: be the battle captain and the talk for a twelve

445
00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:28,080
Speaker 1: hour shift at night. I'd be like to my commander,

446
00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:31,359
Speaker 1: I'm like, sir, like any one of these other officers

447
00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:34,360
Speaker 1: here that don't do twenty four hour operations, could they

448
00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:38,439
Speaker 1: maybe take the midnight shift in the talk just made sense, right,

449
00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:40,600
Speaker 1: of course? Not no, of course, we want to put

450
00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:42,720
Speaker 1: the guys that are out there fighting and getting shot

451
00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:44,920
Speaker 1: at every day in the talk overnight. So it's like, yeah,

452
00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:47,800
Speaker 1: it's like it's a lot of that garbage that that

453
00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:50,320
Speaker 1: sort of makes you pull your hair out, like when

454
00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:52,080
Speaker 1: you serve, and that's the stuff that you don't miss.

455
00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:54,520
Speaker 1: But I think generally speaking, if I had to look

456
00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:57,080
Speaker 1: at the entirety of my service, I do miss it.

457
00:21:57,240 --> 00:21:59,080
Speaker 1: I think I would go back in a second. You know,

458
00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:03,280
Speaker 1: they're definitely aspects of it that that I miss um.

459
00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:06,359
Speaker 1: But I mean, I think for both of us, we

460
00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:08,680
Speaker 1: probably came in at quite the right time. I think

461
00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:11,280
Speaker 1: so too, I mean, and honestly, I'll be quite honest,

462
00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:14,359
Speaker 1: I think I got out at the right time too. Yeah, yeah,

463
00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:16,720
Speaker 1: I mean, it wasn't my call to get out, although

464
00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:18,320
Speaker 1: I think I was on my way after I came back.

465
00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:21,479
Speaker 1: I mean, I had aspirations to be like a career

466
00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:24,040
Speaker 1: army guy when I went in, and after I experienced

467
00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:26,560
Speaker 1: a year, like four and five days of combat, I'm like, okay,

468
00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:29,000
Speaker 1: I've had my fill. I'm done. You know, well, it's

469
00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:30,760
Speaker 1: also going to be pretty hard for you to come

470
00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:33,159
Speaker 1: down off of that and you know, do the staff

471
00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:36,240
Speaker 1: positions and exactly even though you check the block, you

472
00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:39,000
Speaker 1: got your C I B. But I think would be difficult.

473
00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:41,160
Speaker 1: I think, at least for me, I think it would

474
00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:44,119
Speaker 1: be difficult to transition over to that. Absolutely when I

475
00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:45,800
Speaker 1: got back. They may be an exo And then I

476
00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:47,520
Speaker 1: was a company commander for a while prior to even

477
00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:49,080
Speaker 1: having gone to the command course, and it was just

478
00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:51,840
Speaker 1: not the same. And honestly, like, if you wanted to

479
00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:54,159
Speaker 1: have a wife and kids in a family. Like the

480
00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:55,720
Speaker 1: tenth Mountain Division at that time was going back in

481
00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:58,680
Speaker 1: nine months. Like so we get this, we get back

482
00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:01,480
Speaker 1: from a year and a half. So okay, So people

483
00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:05,320
Speaker 1: need to know. We were extended a day before we

484
00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:07,199
Speaker 1: were supposed to go home. I me and my platoon

485
00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:09,840
Speaker 1: sergeant were the last people from my platoon left on

486
00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:12,639
Speaker 1: the base. We're for doing the rip with the the

487
00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:15,680
Speaker 1: Airborn coming in to replace us. I had guys in Bogram,

488
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:18,240
Speaker 1: I had guys that were already home, and and we

489
00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:21,000
Speaker 1: get a call. Sec Dev had gotten a call from

490
00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:24,639
Speaker 1: our SECTF had called our commander was General Frankly at

491
00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:27,760
Speaker 1: the time, and we got extended, like within twenty four hours.

492
00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:30,200
Speaker 1: Get called to the talk like at two o'clock in

493
00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:32,080
Speaker 1: the morning, and that's never a good call. And we're like,

494
00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:34,480
Speaker 1: oh God, some somebody's getting attacked somewhere. We're gonna have

495
00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:37,439
Speaker 1: to roll outside the wire and and and respond. But no,

496
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:40,600
Speaker 1: it was like to eight seven. Infantry has been extended

497
00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:44,040
Speaker 1: for you know, Hunter for a hundred and twenty days

498
00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:47,600
Speaker 1: or until mission complete. You know, those are the last

499
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:49,720
Speaker 1: when you're in when you're in the infantry and you're

500
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:52,960
Speaker 1: surrounded by the Joe Mafia, who are also like barracks attorneys.

501
00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:56,280
Speaker 1: They focus in on those words or until mission complete.

502
00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:58,320
Speaker 1: And it was a day before we're supposed to come home,

503
00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:00,720
Speaker 1: and so we had MPs that we're going to my

504
00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:03,760
Speaker 1: soldiers houses and taking them out of their homes and

505
00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:05,680
Speaker 1: walking them back to the r d F, the Rapid

506
00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 1: Deployment Facility and putting them back on the birds and

507
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:10,320
Speaker 1: flying them back to Afghanistan. And then we were there

508
00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:12,840
Speaker 1: for another four months, a whole another spring offensive. So

509
00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:16,119
Speaker 1: it was it was miserable. That was my deployment. And again,

510
00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:17,400
Speaker 1: this is like one of those moments where I don't

511
00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:20,200
Speaker 1: really know what I was going with that, but as something.

512
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:22,359
Speaker 1: But I'll tell you what that moment is. That's the

513
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:24,399
Speaker 1: moment where you're like, thank God, I'm not married and

514
00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:27,400
Speaker 1: I don't have kids, because imagine them going through all that. Yeah,

515
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:30,800
Speaker 1: So the army had spent tens of thousands of dollars

516
00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:34,719
Speaker 1: um sending psychologists and all this other stuff. Families had

517
00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:38,399
Speaker 1: already books vacations and made down payments on apartments and

518
00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:41,520
Speaker 1: houses and bought houses and like you know, started school

519
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:43,600
Speaker 1: and all this other stuff. And man, it was it

520
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:46,439
Speaker 1: was a ship storm, it really was. And I've never

521
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:50,000
Speaker 1: seen men so dejected as they were getting off that

522
00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:52,560
Speaker 1: bird back in burmel And. And no joke, they had

523
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:55,120
Speaker 1: us going, they had us outside the wire that same day.

524
00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:57,840
Speaker 1: That's yeah, it's just like, you know, it was the

525
00:24:57,840 --> 00:24:59,880
Speaker 1: whole mentality of like, you know, you fall off a bike,

526
00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:02,280
Speaker 1: you know, get back on the bike and keep riding

527
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:04,840
Speaker 1: as soon as possible, except for people are trying to

528
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:06,240
Speaker 1: kill you and shooting at you. So it's a little

529
00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:07,879
Speaker 1: bit different. You know, it was, guys, it was. It

530
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:10,919
Speaker 1: was a leadership challenge, to say the least. Yeah, I

531
00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:16,640
Speaker 1: mean it was mildly. Guys were really different, demoralized after that. Yeah,

532
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:19,120
Speaker 1: you know, because the army of today is really different

533
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:22,240
Speaker 1: than you know, say the Spartans. You know, back then,

534
00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:26,560
Speaker 1: you were responsible for being You were responsible for how

535
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:29,119
Speaker 1: capable you were as a warrior. You had your own sword,

536
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:30,680
Speaker 1: you had your own shield, and it was your job

537
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:32,159
Speaker 1: to maintain it, and it was your job to bring

538
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:33,640
Speaker 1: your own food. It was your job to do all

539
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:36,040
Speaker 1: that stuff. It's not so in the military. In the

540
00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:38,479
Speaker 1: Army of today, they provide you your armor, they provide

541
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:40,719
Speaker 1: you your weapon, they provide you your training, they provide

542
00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:42,400
Speaker 1: you your money, they give you a place to live.

543
00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:44,720
Speaker 1: I mean it's like they give you your water. They're

544
00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:47,199
Speaker 1: almost like a parent figure to you. So when we

545
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:50,679
Speaker 1: were extended the day prior to going home, somebody, you know,

546
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:53,200
Speaker 1: we thought to ourselves, somebody up in the higher echelons

547
00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:56,920
Speaker 1: of command had to have known a long time ago.

548
00:25:57,320 --> 00:25:59,359
Speaker 1: Even a week would have made a big difference. You know,

549
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:02,280
Speaker 1: we were we were extended a day before. I was

550
00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:04,960
Speaker 1: supposed to wait until they waited till the last moment

551
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:06,560
Speaker 1: to do it. So it was almost like when they

552
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:10,359
Speaker 1: did that, the army had had betrayed us, you know,

553
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:12,680
Speaker 1: like it was like being betrayed by a parent. And

554
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:15,200
Speaker 1: and that I think was more traumatic for my soldiers

555
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:18,360
Speaker 1: than any combat that we were in. Yeah, because now

556
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:20,639
Speaker 1: you have to ask yourself the question like who is

557
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:24,320
Speaker 1: making these decisions exactly? Why are they making them? Yeah,

558
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:27,440
Speaker 1: So what had happened was is we we had built

559
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:30,439
Speaker 1: combat Outpost Margot. That was the very very first combat

560
00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:34,720
Speaker 1: outpost that was built in Afghanistan during the shift in

561
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:37,320
Speaker 1: strategy right to where you know, we built all these

562
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:39,480
Speaker 1: combat outposts and we were gonna have a presence in

563
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:41,479
Speaker 1: every village, just like we did in Iraq, and we

564
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:44,040
Speaker 1: were gonna win the hearts and minds. It's a strategy

565
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:47,000
Speaker 1: that in Afghanistan just doesn't work. So we built this

566
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:51,000
Speaker 1: combat outpost and I was up there, man, and and

567
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:53,720
Speaker 1: you know, I remember the engineers had left in the

568
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:55,200
Speaker 1: middle of the night because we were in the area

569
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:56,919
Speaker 1: that we were it was so dangerous, they just up

570
00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:59,479
Speaker 1: and left. So we had these half filled HESCO walls

571
00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:01,720
Speaker 1: or on a combat outpost, so we just couldn't fill

572
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:03,639
Speaker 1: because the engineers are like, sorry, this wasn't in that,

573
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:05,359
Speaker 1: this wasn't in the job description. This place is two

574
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:06,920
Speaker 1: dangerous were out and they left us in the middle

575
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:10,040
Speaker 1: of the night. Not joking, man, this was this was

576
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:13,040
Speaker 1: a wild wild West having them were also American soldiers,

577
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:17,119
Speaker 1: point out, yes, And so there we were sitting with

578
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:19,240
Speaker 1: five gun trucks in my in my truck in the

579
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:21,679
Speaker 1: middle and I had to I had to drive up

580
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:24,119
Speaker 1: my gun trucks on these ramps that the engineers were

581
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:26,520
Speaker 1: using to fill these HESCO walls and put gun trucks

582
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:28,080
Speaker 1: up on the ramp so I could have four points

583
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:31,480
Speaker 1: of security. And that night we get a call like

584
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:33,560
Speaker 1: three in the morning from my boss, you know, from

585
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:35,640
Speaker 1: my company commander, we had predator in the sky who

586
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:37,840
Speaker 1: he had seen. He said, hey, you know, I don't

587
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 1: want to alarm you, but from your east you have

588
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:42,080
Speaker 1: two hundred and fifty the enemy fighters moving on in

589
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:45,679
Speaker 1: your position, and from from your north you've got another

590
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:50,080
Speaker 1: fifty five. And I'm like what And so my patuon

591
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 1: turn comes over to be he's like batting down the

592
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:54,040
Speaker 1: hatches and we got ready for this fight. But thank

593
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:55,760
Speaker 1: god we had predator in the air. But our battalion

594
00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:57,879
Speaker 1: commander ended up well, he was like he was amazing.

595
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:00,199
Speaker 1: He's like a modern day patent. Really he was was

596
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:03,160
Speaker 1: so great. I stacked up all this air from from

597
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 1: we had Predator in the sky, and then we had

598
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:06,840
Speaker 1: a patches and then you know we had you know,

599
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:10,159
Speaker 1: ward hogs, and then we had be one strategic lancers

600
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:11,399
Speaker 1: in the air and like so we he did a

601
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:15,640
Speaker 1: great job deconflicting all that air. And I mean we

602
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 1: started with dropping three or four h two thousand pound

603
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:23,840
Speaker 1: j dam's on them. And it's funny. It's funny because

604
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:25,240
Speaker 1: we can listen to their comma and they know that

605
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:28,200
Speaker 1: that's why they have their own camp. Second stuff you know, um,

606
00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:31,280
Speaker 1: they're like the last thing they said before we dropped

607
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:34,680
Speaker 1: that those munitions, they were like they're like overrun thebletoon,

608
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,000
Speaker 1: make sure you cut off their heads. And it was

609
00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:39,680
Speaker 1: just like we sent that, we sent. We dropped the

610
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 1: bombs on them right after that, and I have the

611
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 1: Predator feed from that fight. I had the Predator feed

612
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:48,080
Speaker 1: watching these bombs hit and then these these skies scatter

613
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 1: and and then I think our base called in two

614
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty rounds of one of five artillery. That

615
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:56,120
Speaker 1: was just you see, like the explosions on the on,

616
00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:58,320
Speaker 1: the on, the thermals from the pread and then we

617
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:00,280
Speaker 1: had a ten coming in and a patches coming in.

618
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:02,520
Speaker 1: It was just like it was amazing. And by the

619
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:05,160
Speaker 1: time we got to that objective the next day, it

620
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:07,200
Speaker 1: was just it was it was an infer Truman's dream, right.

621
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:09,560
Speaker 1: We were just kicking boots to everybody was everybody was dead.

622
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:11,960
Speaker 1: You know, that's a pretty uh, actually a pretty good

623
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 1: day as far as like the enemy massing their forces

624
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:17,280
Speaker 1: like that, Like how do you have the opportunity to

625
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 1: wipe out three of them at once? I know, and

626
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 1: people don't believe me until I show him the video.

627
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:23,520
Speaker 1: I have the predator video, and they just should They

628
00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 1: were moving in a tactical column, and and the pred

629
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:28,280
Speaker 1: would just follow this trail, and it looked for like

630
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 1: two minutes. Will just follow these guys, and you can

631
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:33,320
Speaker 1: just count them one, two, three, four or five, six, seven,

632
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:35,000
Speaker 1: eight nine all the way back to the border. They

633
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 1: were marching in to hit us. And so my point

634
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:40,360
Speaker 1: with telling you all that was is that the SECT

635
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 1: came down for that because we found pac Mill I

636
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 1: D card Frontier I D cards on them. So pac

637
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:48,680
Speaker 1: Mill was supporting that attack. And we gave that all

638
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:50,480
Speaker 1: that intel to the SECT deaf and the SECT f

639
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:52,479
Speaker 1: took it and went back to the Pentagon, and two

640
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 1: weeks later we were extended because they had sent all

641
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:56,280
Speaker 1: of the units that were meant to replace us to

642
00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:59,000
Speaker 1: Iraq and we were just left there. You know, how

643
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 1: what what what was the mix at that time, like

644
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:06,840
Speaker 1: Afghan or from what you're saying somewhere Pakistani um versus

645
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:09,920
Speaker 1: like foreign fighters from the Gulf States and so forth. Well,

646
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 1: so in that particular engagement, you know, it felt like

647
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:15,560
Speaker 1: pac Mill because but when we did the sensitive site

648
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 1: exploitation what you call like the SSC on the objective.

649
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:20,600
Speaker 1: They were wearing play carriers, body armors. I mean, they

650
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 1: had Merril combat boots. A lot of the equipment that

651
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:24,720
Speaker 1: they had was right, I mean, the peacams and in

652
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:27,280
Speaker 1: in a K forty seven that they had, they were

653
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 1: right off there. I mean we weren't allowed to talk

654
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:31,480
Speaker 1: about this at the time, but Iranian serial numbers fresh

655
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 1: off the assembly lines in Iran. I mean, they were

656
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:36,160
Speaker 1: well equipped. Do you think they were a freelance doing

657
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:38,640
Speaker 1: a mercenary. That's a really interesting question. I had never

658
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:42,960
Speaker 1: thought about it until now. Maybe entrepreneurial minded. Uh, because

659
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:46,480
Speaker 1: in parts of Pakistan like the Fata and Bukistan and place. Yeah,

660
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:48,840
Speaker 1: I mean they have a real history of working freelance.

661
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:51,600
Speaker 1: You're right, Yeah, it's an interesting question I had never

662
00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 1: thought about until now. Maybe because they were really really

663
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:57,800
Speaker 1: well equipped, and so, you know, we we had a

664
00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 1: an interesting cross section of enemy though they answer your question,

665
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:02,520
Speaker 1: and like that was actually one of our greatest challenges,

666
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 1: just trying to figure out who we were fighting that

667
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 1: given days as Akani as a Sigmadia or is this

668
00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:08,560
Speaker 1: just like a drug deal gone wrong, or is this

669
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 1: Taliban al Qaeda. We had no idea, so um I

670
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:15,080
Speaker 1: mean there were times where I mean we fought I

671
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:18,440
Speaker 1: mean obviously you know Jihades that spoke Postu and specifically

672
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 1: Waziri in that area, which is interesting because we had

673
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:23,600
Speaker 1: to have local terms from that area that could speak

674
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:25,400
Speaker 1: Waziri because the terms that the army were sending us

675
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:27,800
Speaker 1: couldn't speak Zerrie. Is that what they speak closer to

676
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 1: the Iranian border um and in our C east um.

677
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:35,120
Speaker 1: So it was it was the Pakistan border r C

678
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:38,400
Speaker 1: east skin area from basically fob Tilman on down all

679
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:44,120
Speaker 1: spoke Waziri. Everywhere else around there spoke uh Farsi and Postu.

680
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:46,200
Speaker 1: But the terms that we had had to be from

681
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:48,320
Speaker 1: that local area because it was such an obscure dialect.

682
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:51,000
Speaker 1: We we didn't have anybody that could do it. So um,

683
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:53,959
Speaker 1: the enemy that we fought there was just I mean

684
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:55,920
Speaker 1: they were a little like a little from Column, a

685
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:58,560
Speaker 1: little from Columby at a real difficult time identifying who

686
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:00,800
Speaker 1: they even were half the time. But they seem to

687
00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:03,920
Speaker 1: all be crammed in there um and they might have

688
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:06,680
Speaker 1: all been fighting different factions fighting for that absolutely the

689
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:09,400
Speaker 1: same time. Yeah, right, exactly, I mean, it was, it was,

690
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 1: It wasn't even like you know, like you said, like

691
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:14,800
Speaker 1: sometimes you just like get in the middle of a

692
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:17,040
Speaker 1: drug deal or something, you know, something you know somebody

693
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 1: like you know, and they just shoot at you for whatever.

694
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:21,080
Speaker 1: It was real hard to identify who the enemy was.

695
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:24,440
Speaker 1: I mean I remember an operation down in the Pakistan

696
00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:27,800
Speaker 1: border we did one time, and um, you know, we're

697
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:30,000
Speaker 1: driving through the mountains and everything, and you could hear

698
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:33,760
Speaker 1: firefights down in the valley, just gunfire, mortar fire, I mean,

699
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 1: mixing it up pretty good. And uh, you know, we'd

700
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:40,880
Speaker 1: asked the Afghan border control people, you know, who are

701
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 1: they coming for us? What is this? What's going on?

702
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:44,880
Speaker 1: And they're like, no, it's just two rival families doing

703
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:47,320
Speaker 1: it out. You know, nothing has nothing to do with

704
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:52,440
Speaker 1: exactly exactly man, and like it is. It was really challenging.

705
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:54,200
Speaker 1: I remember. I remember one engagement. We were down on

706
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:59,280
Speaker 1: skin Skin is like and regional commandities right on the border.

707
00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:01,520
Speaker 1: I mean, like it you get it's a stone's throwaway

708
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:03,320
Speaker 1: from the pac mill that were manning the other border

709
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 1: checkpoint at the other side, and they had dishka's mounted

710
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 1: on all the I mean they're all aimed right at

711
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:10,160
Speaker 1: what the at this place called the Alamo, and the

712
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 1: Alamo is like removed from fire based skin but was

713
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:14,240
Speaker 1: all the way on the border and we had a

714
00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:17,080
Speaker 1: mission there once and we just got we just got attacked.

715
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:18,880
Speaker 1: It was like the worst kind of attack too, because

716
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:20,520
Speaker 1: it was indirect fire, like they were hitting up with

717
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:22,280
Speaker 1: mortars and rockets and we really couldn't see where they

718
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:23,960
Speaker 1: were coming from, so we really and we also couldn't

719
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 1: shoot back because they were using the pac Mill as

720
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:31,400
Speaker 1: like basicly basically as like human shields, knowing that if

721
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:34,160
Speaker 1: we fired at the pac Mill like it, we create

722
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:36,560
Speaker 1: an international incident. So all we could do is hunker

723
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:38,600
Speaker 1: down and just get slammed with one of seven millimeter

724
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:41,160
Speaker 1: rockets for about an hour and a half. It was.

725
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:44,280
Speaker 1: It was And I learned after that engagement that that

726
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:47,600
Speaker 1: was the fourth of July. I'm like, gives a whole dude,

727
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:51,240
Speaker 1: the whole new definition to fireworks, you know. But that's

728
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:52,920
Speaker 1: that's the enemy that we fought. Man. They knew what

729
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 1: they were doing, and they understood the geopolitics of the region,

730
00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:57,720
Speaker 1: and they knew that if we shot and fired back

731
00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:00,720
Speaker 1: at pac Mill, it would create a create a ship

732
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:05,440
Speaker 1: stormy Pakistan. I mean, it's like the puzzle the conundrum

733
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:10,680
Speaker 1: of that entire conflict that we've been unable unable to unravel. Um,

734
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:14,000
Speaker 1: it was interesting to see that they recently cut what

735
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:17,480
Speaker 1: three million dollars of funding to the Pakistani government. Yeah,

736
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:19,920
Speaker 1: you know, I understand the complexity of that aid package

737
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:22,560
Speaker 1: for sure, because but I am a fan of the

738
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:25,800
Speaker 1: move because you know, there's not our friends, No they're not,

739
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:28,840
Speaker 1: you know, they're frenemies, right, But like, you know, I

740
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:32,800
Speaker 1: understanding that part of that aid package goes to physical

741
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:36,759
Speaker 1: security of their nuclear weapons, which is really important. You know.

742
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:40,040
Speaker 1: I always what always struck me in Pakistan was how

743
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:45,279
Speaker 1: everything in that country is just just perilously balanced on

744
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:49,600
Speaker 1: a knife's edge. Man, Like I like, I don't understand

745
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:55,759
Speaker 1: how the Pakistani Taliban has not overrun you know, the

746
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:59,239
Speaker 1: pac Mill nuke facility or you know, have some pac

747
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:03,000
Speaker 1: Mill officer that it's corrupt, like give somebody access. I mean,

748
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:05,759
Speaker 1: I don't know. I can't keep a really really tight

749
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:08,239
Speaker 1: leash on that stuff. And you know, like you said,

750
00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:10,520
Speaker 1: we have some involvement in that too. There's an interesting

751
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:13,239
Speaker 1: article years ago now is I think it's in the

752
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:18,520
Speaker 1: New Yorker about uh, they published this article about Pakistani

753
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:21,160
Speaker 1: nuclear security, and one of the things the packs were

754
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:24,320
Speaker 1: doing was driving nuclear weapons around the country and trucks,

755
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:27,920
Speaker 1: like unmarked civilian vehicles to try because they were so

756
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:31,799
Speaker 1: afraid that like you know, the Jaysack dudes are gonna

757
00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:34,200
Speaker 1: come in the night and take control of their nuclear weapons.

758
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:37,560
Speaker 1: And it's sort of like decapitation strike the way I

759
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:40,400
Speaker 1: would interpret that the way the way I would interpret

760
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:42,319
Speaker 1: that article though that it was that it was kind

761
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:45,040
Speaker 1: of it was probably our government, the CIA or whoever,

762
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:47,880
Speaker 1: trying to telegraph to the Pakistanians like, hey, you need

763
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:51,359
Speaker 1: to stop driving these these bombs around in trucks because

764
00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:53,960
Speaker 1: it's not safe. I know, right, I mean, And so

765
00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:56,520
Speaker 1: part of part of it's like like part of like

766
00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:59,759
Speaker 1: that the the plot and man of Man of War

767
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:02,840
Speaker 1: is you try to ask yourself, like what what's the

768
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:05,600
Speaker 1: scariest thing that could happen? And and having come back

769
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:09,200
Speaker 1: from Afghanistan, it was just like a man portable nuclear

770
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:12,560
Speaker 1: weapon like being unleashed. It's like trying to find a

771
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:14,160
Speaker 1: needle on the stack of needles, like how do you

772
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:16,840
Speaker 1: track it? How do you find it? You know, I

773
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:19,719
Speaker 1: think the Russians had in the research that I did

774
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:23,880
Speaker 1: for this book had something like sixty some backpack portable

775
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:28,000
Speaker 1: sixty pounds suitcase nukes that you they're man portable there,

776
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:30,719
Speaker 1: they've only ever accounted for fifty seven. Like where are

777
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:33,560
Speaker 1: the other three? Uh? I mean, I take it you

778
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:36,319
Speaker 1: did some research on green Light. Yeah, a little bit.

779
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:39,200
Speaker 1: I mean yeah, but it is it not? Is it

780
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:42,640
Speaker 1: not scary? Does it not scare you? Yeah? Well ours,

781
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:45,880
Speaker 1: see's very interesting. I did a bunch of research on that,

782
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:49,960
Speaker 1: on our program with man portable nuclear weapons, And of

783
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:52,200
Speaker 1: all the special Forces guys I talked to who are

784
00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:55,160
Speaker 1: on green Light, I don't think any of them actually

785
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:59,680
Speaker 1: even saw a live nuclear weapon. They they had simulators

786
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:03,719
Speaker 1: and they had inspections, and there were points of inspection.

787
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:05,919
Speaker 1: They had to come in and take the weapon apart,

788
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:08,319
Speaker 1: put it back together, arm it disarmed. It was all

789
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 1: on a training simulator and if you failed inspection, God

790
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:14,040
Speaker 1: help you. If you failed an inspection, the team leaders

791
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:18,120
Speaker 1: relieved immediately. Are you kidding me? Yeah? This was a

792
00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:20,160
Speaker 1: very It was a very elite thing. They called them

793
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:24,920
Speaker 1: Pig Teams, which was Palmer's Imperial Guards after the general

794
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:27,239
Speaker 1: who came up with the program or was a big

795
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:31,200
Speaker 1: part of the program. Pig teams, and um, the green

796
00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:34,440
Speaker 1: Light guys did interesting stuff. That's where the um the

797
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:37,399
Speaker 1: Rolex watches that SF guys have, it's because they gave

798
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:40,880
Speaker 1: those Rolex watches to green Light teams because they were

799
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:43,359
Speaker 1: gonna have to parachute with these nuclear weapons behind enemy

800
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:45,279
Speaker 1: lines and they might have to use the role X

801
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:47,440
Speaker 1: as a barter item. Yes, that is what I know

802
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:49,399
Speaker 1: of the green Light teams, like all the stuff about

803
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:51,360
Speaker 1: disarming the nuclear weapons and we leaving the team that

804
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:54,000
Speaker 1: I had no idea, but I that I mean, that's

805
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:56,560
Speaker 1: why I have That's why I have Rolex sub mariner.

806
00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 1: Eric Steel, and my book wears a Rolex sub mariner

807
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:00,600
Speaker 1: for that for that very reason, and he has to barter.

808
00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 1: This is uh. I have to stress this is a rumor.

809
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:07,239
Speaker 1: But guys who were on the teams, they told me so.

810
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:10,680
Speaker 1: They would activate there's an actual like keypad on the

811
00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:13,719
Speaker 1: weapon to arm it, and then they would have something

812
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:18,520
Speaker 1: like thirty minutes to vacate the area before the weapon. Debt.

813
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:21,439
Speaker 1: Oh man, that's cool. I'm sorry, but that's pretty cool.

814
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:24,400
Speaker 1: These are baby nukes, so tack nukes or something you

815
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:26,800
Speaker 1: could you could get away. You could probably get escaped

816
00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:31,080
Speaker 1: the blast radius. Um but the skull but internally on

817
00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:34,120
Speaker 1: the teams was that the second they put the code

818
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:35,920
Speaker 1: into the weapon was going to detonate and blew up

819
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:39,440
Speaker 1: in their faces, kill the team, because because they're there,

820
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:41,680
Speaker 1: would be like, look, it's a suicide mission from the

821
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:44,840
Speaker 1: get go. So the the idea was, like, you know,

822
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:47,879
Speaker 1: the scuttle butt was that there was to sacrifice the team.

823
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:51,279
Speaker 1: So what they did in training with the simulator is

824
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 1: they'd have just two guys go up to the final

825
00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:56,000
Speaker 1: point with the bomb and activate it while the rest

826
00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:59,239
Speaker 1: of the team was in an overwatch position because they

827
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:01,640
Speaker 1: because they they came to believe in their mind that

828
00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:03,480
Speaker 1: that weapon was going to go off the second they

829
00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:08,000
Speaker 1: armed it. That is intense. That is crazy. That is crazy, man,

830
00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:12,440
Speaker 1: I mean that that is to me, that's the nightmare scenario.

831
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:15,239
Speaker 1: Let's find it. Just tell us more about the book then,

832
00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:16,759
Speaker 1: I want to I want you to tell us how

833
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:21,800
Speaker 1: you transitioned into writing a Yeah, nonfiction to fiction is

834
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:24,080
Speaker 1: is a tough jump and and a long gap of

835
00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:27,040
Speaker 1: time in between. You and I were talking before recording

836
00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:29,560
Speaker 1: and your first book came out. As you were saying,

837
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:34,160
Speaker 1: around the time of American Sniper Survivor. Those are all

838
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:37,279
Speaker 1: books we remember from five plus years ago, and now

839
00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:39,440
Speaker 1: you write a fiction. Yeah, out, Loble Tune came out

840
00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:42,440
Speaker 1: in like February of two thousand twelve. American Sniper came

841
00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:44,439
Speaker 1: out in January of two thousand twelve. I actually met

842
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:47,200
Speaker 1: Chris after our books had published and became friends with

843
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:50,279
Speaker 1: him after that. But yeah, um, I think part of

844
00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:53,000
Speaker 1: the problem is is that it just takes a long

845
00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 1: time to learn how to tell a good story. And

846
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:58,040
Speaker 1: you know, I say this all the time, but if

847
00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:00,840
Speaker 1: you're an aspiring fiction writer, it's are more important to

848
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:02,440
Speaker 1: be a good storyteller than it is to be a

849
00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:04,560
Speaker 1: good writer. I mean, you have to be able to write.

850
00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:06,960
Speaker 1: I mean, but there are a lot of great people,

851
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:10,040
Speaker 1: great writers out there who can write a great op

852
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:13,080
Speaker 1: ed too, but could not pull off writing a fiction story.

853
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:15,200
Speaker 1: And that's precisely because they don't know how to tell

854
00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:17,839
Speaker 1: a story. And so for six years I just did

855
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:20,960
Speaker 1: research and read books and watched films and just try

856
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:24,000
Speaker 1: to get a sense of you know, what's the best

857
00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:27,200
Speaker 1: way to have a story dramatically unfold and the idea

858
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:30,799
Speaker 1: of showing the readers something as opposed to simply telling them. Um,

859
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:34,040
Speaker 1: the learning curve was steep. I think I wrote and

860
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:37,200
Speaker 1: rewrote you know different Eric Steele's story. It took me

861
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:38,680
Speaker 1: four years to actually get it done and get that

862
00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:40,600
Speaker 1: book published because I had to start from scratch three

863
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:42,920
Speaker 1: or four times because I just didn't have feeling it.

864
00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:45,880
Speaker 1: Yeah right, you can, yeah, exactly. And so A Man

865
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:49,000
Speaker 1: of War is a UM, it's it's a character driven book.

866
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:51,080
Speaker 1: It's it's it's obviously plot driven. I think it's a

867
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:53,920
Speaker 1: nice hybrid between a plot driven and character driven story. Uh.

868
00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:56,400
Speaker 1: And what I mean by that is that, you know,

869
00:40:56,680 --> 00:40:59,239
Speaker 1: I think it's important specifically for thrillers to have your

870
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:01,799
Speaker 1: protagonist or hero in this case, Eric Steele and Man

871
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:04,200
Speaker 1: of War drive the plot and I figure out there.

872
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:07,440
Speaker 1: Eric Steele is a Green Beret, former Green Beret or

873
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:11,759
Speaker 1: Army range former Army Rangers and Infantry Infantry officer, ranger

874
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:14,000
Speaker 1: qualified guy like I was never in a ranger battalion,

875
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:16,919
Speaker 1: like like Jack right you Yeah, So there's a there's

876
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:19,759
Speaker 1: a there's a difference that many people don't understand, but

877
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:23,080
Speaker 1: I did. I think my mom is still confused about that.

878
00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:25,399
Speaker 1: People don't get range of school and ranger battalion don't

879
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:27,920
Speaker 1: get it because it's so confusing. Nothing that not ever

880
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:30,040
Speaker 1: from the conversation. But there are guys in ranger battalions

881
00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:32,439
Speaker 1: that don't have a ranger tab. But guys in ranger

882
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:34,880
Speaker 1: battalions are rangers. And then there are guys in conventional

883
00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:37,040
Speaker 1: infantr units that have ranger tab. We kind of screwed

884
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:39,560
Speaker 1: up on like the pr side of explaining that to

885
00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:41,480
Speaker 1: the public. Yeah, yeah, and people don't get it, and

886
00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:45,319
Speaker 1: that's fine. It's neither here nor there. But but um yeah,

887
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:47,800
Speaker 1: you know, I tried to I tried to write this

888
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:49,800
Speaker 1: book and make it as a bring the lessons that

889
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:52,440
Speaker 1: I learned from combat and make the engagements as authentic

890
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:56,759
Speaker 1: as humanly possible. Um but it was a steep learning curve,

891
00:41:56,920 --> 00:41:58,720
Speaker 1: you know. And I thought, I thought the most important

892
00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:02,880
Speaker 1: part is is having characters that are rich and believable,

893
00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:06,880
Speaker 1: with depth, that have both internal and external conflicts in

894
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:10,480
Speaker 1: their own specific and personal psychology. Like that's the checklist

895
00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:13,520
Speaker 1: for characters. And they they have to you know, they

896
00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:15,719
Speaker 1: have to have death. People have to feel like they're real,

897
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:19,239
Speaker 1: like Eric Steele and and and Demo his keeper, and

898
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:22,920
Speaker 1: Meg and and and Rockford who is the president. They

899
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:25,719
Speaker 1: feel like real people to me, you know, after having

900
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:28,279
Speaker 1: worked and developing their characters for four years and their

901
00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:31,440
Speaker 1: own idiosyncrasy and stuff. It's it's a monumental challenge to

902
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:33,000
Speaker 1: do it and do it right now. There are people

903
00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:35,719
Speaker 1: out there that that can just write a fiction book

904
00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:38,120
Speaker 1: because they have it right, they just get it. You know.

905
00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:41,239
Speaker 1: I'm not one of those people. Um, but you know,

906
00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:44,160
Speaker 1: Man of War, Like, I thought to myself when writing

907
00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:46,920
Speaker 1: this book, like there were several times where there were

908
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:49,759
Speaker 1: missions where like we knew where high value target was,

909
00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:53,480
Speaker 1: Like he's like right over in that compound. He sets

910
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:56,600
Speaker 1: up a lemonade stand every Tuesday. We know he gets

911
00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:59,080
Speaker 1: to go to the market and shaves on Thursday. Can

912
00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:02,279
Speaker 1: we just go at him now? Well, why can't we

913
00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:04,320
Speaker 1: have to wait for so and so's approval with the Pentagon.

914
00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:06,200
Speaker 1: Well that would become a week later and the guy's

915
00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:08,919
Speaker 1: already gone. It's like we're shooting ourselves in the foot

916
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:10,560
Speaker 1: with this war. So I just thought to myself, like,

917
00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:14,480
Speaker 1: you know, I need to develop my own clandestine unit.

918
00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:16,880
Speaker 1: You know, so much so much of these books that

919
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:18,719
Speaker 1: have a guy working for the CIA or a part

920
00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:20,879
Speaker 1: of some D O D organizations or some black ops unit.

921
00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:23,760
Speaker 1: Like I created my own unit. It's called the Alpha Program,

922
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:27,160
Speaker 1: and there are nine Alpha's, each responsible for a different

923
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:30,520
Speaker 1: geographic area of the globe, all of whom report directly

924
00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:33,040
Speaker 1: to the President. So in order to give the president

925
00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:37,160
Speaker 1: operational flexibility, So if the President can't handle a mission

926
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:40,000
Speaker 1: with diplomacy or boots on the ground, special operations or

927
00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:42,600
Speaker 1: war all out war, he sends in an Alpha to

928
00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:45,239
Speaker 1: handle the situation and they're just expected to handle it,

929
00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:51,000
Speaker 1: whether it's a targeted assassination mission or something that's more diplomatic. Um. So,

930
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:55,040
Speaker 1: Eric Steele is a former Green Beret, as you mentioned,

931
00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:57,400
Speaker 1: he cut his teeth in Afghanistan, was put in for

932
00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:00,439
Speaker 1: the Medal of Honor, but then just got what's called,

933
00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:03,960
Speaker 1: like you know, a notification from the Alpha Program to

934
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:06,719
Speaker 1: come and try out. And the trial I called in DOC.

935
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:10,080
Speaker 1: But it's at Fort Bragg, North Carolina, at a place

936
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:12,080
Speaker 1: called the Salt Pit. I mean, I just created all

937
00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:14,520
Speaker 1: this from scratch. But there's four phases to end, DOC,

938
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:16,279
Speaker 1: and he he goes through the four phases of the

939
00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:19,680
Speaker 1: Alpha training program, it becomes the youngest and most talented

940
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:22,759
Speaker 1: Alpha in the history of the Alpha Program. And the

941
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:26,040
Speaker 1: Alpha program itself was in the books anyway, was developed

942
00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:29,719
Speaker 1: in the wake of World War Two, refined during the

943
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:33,160
Speaker 1: Cold War, UH and the rise of Stalin and post

944
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:35,560
Speaker 1: World War two era to combat the Russians in Europe,

945
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:39,440
Speaker 1: and was steadily developed and refined and now you know,

946
00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:42,759
Speaker 1: at its peak in in the Globe War and terror.

947
00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:45,919
Speaker 1: So the book find the book starts in the way

948
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:48,480
Speaker 1: and a method of storytelling called in media rez so

949
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:50,759
Speaker 1: in the middle of it, Yeah, right, And so Eric

950
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:52,759
Speaker 1: Steel was thrown into a club in Beirute called the

951
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:55,160
Speaker 1: Dragons Doore. It's a real club, and he's like, he

952
00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:57,840
Speaker 1: knows something's wrong. He gets a CIA target package. It

953
00:44:57,920 --> 00:45:00,640
Speaker 1: just feels too convenient to him and he's just thrown

954
00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:03,080
Speaker 1: into it and expected to figure it out. And so

955
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:06,680
Speaker 1: so with Man of War, like just you know, I

956
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:12,640
Speaker 1: love mentor turned enemy type stories, you know, and so um,

957
00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:14,800
Speaker 1: the story centers around and I don't want to I

958
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:16,960
Speaker 1: don't want to give it away, but you know his

959
00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:22,080
Speaker 1: former alpha trainer mentor who was thought dead and yeah,

960
00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:24,040
Speaker 1: it was thought dead. He was you know, he was

961
00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:26,399
Speaker 1: you know. It sort of has a been Ghazi type

962
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:28,239
Speaker 1: feel to the story, like there's a guy that was

963
00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:32,160
Speaker 1: you know, assassinated. They didn't say, they didn't send in

964
00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:33,919
Speaker 1: any help for him. They knew the attack was coming

965
00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:37,160
Speaker 1: and they sort of like let him die. But he doesn't. Yeah,

966
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:40,279
Speaker 1: he doesn't die. And so but Eric doesn't know this.

967
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:42,120
Speaker 1: I mean, the reader knows this. You'll you'll read about

968
00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:44,600
Speaker 1: Nathaniel West on chapter two. But Eric doesn't know this,

969
00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:47,400
Speaker 1: and so so there's some you know, I feel like

970
00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:50,279
Speaker 1: that gives a little bit of tension. Anytime there's a

971
00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:52,680
Speaker 1: mentor turned enemy sort of in a story, it feels

972
00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:55,520
Speaker 1: a lot more. Yeah, one of our own going to

973
00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:58,279
Speaker 1: the other side is just something that scares people, um,

974
00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:00,799
Speaker 1: and you know, it's it's not even like for Nathaniel West,

975
00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:03,680
Speaker 1: like the other side meeting, Like he's in it for himself, right,

976
00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:05,799
Speaker 1: Like Nathaniel West go like he didn't give a crap

977
00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:08,000
Speaker 1: about Islamic extremes. In fact, he hates them just as

978
00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:09,920
Speaker 1: much as as you know, as much as we do.

979
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:13,359
Speaker 1: But like, you know, he's in it for himself because

980
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:15,719
Speaker 1: he knows he was betrayed by high level people in

981
00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:18,080
Speaker 1: the US government and he's going after those people and

982
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:20,239
Speaker 1: it's up to Eric to stop him. As far as

983
00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:22,560
Speaker 1: like what you describe with the Alpha program. It's kind

984
00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:24,680
Speaker 1: of that you you know, created for this book. It's

985
00:46:24,719 --> 00:46:27,960
Speaker 1: interesting because a lot of people like we talk about

986
00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:30,400
Speaker 1: like oh, there's like tier two, Tier one, all that

987
00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:33,479
Speaker 1: kind of stuff, but there's like people don't understand, there's

988
00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:36,640
Speaker 1: like these little levels that are sort of above that. Yes,

989
00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:39,960
Speaker 1: like exactly, you're in Jay Sock or something like that,

990
00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:43,520
Speaker 1: and they're watching you and seeing what you do and

991
00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:48,839
Speaker 1: cultivating people. And if they like what you're doing, Um,

992
00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:51,719
Speaker 1: it's possible that you get absorbed into some sort of

993
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:56,680
Speaker 1: compartmentalized program exactly right. And there are guys who maybe

994
00:46:56,760 --> 00:46:59,799
Speaker 1: we're an operator at one point and now they're working

995
00:46:59,840 --> 00:47:02,400
Speaker 1: for some program and one day they could have credentials

996
00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:05,120
Speaker 1: as a FBI agent. The next day they could have

997
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:09,200
Speaker 1: credentials as this is right, and it's called official cover. Yeah,

998
00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:11,720
Speaker 1: and that it's not so that they can go around

999
00:47:11,719 --> 00:47:14,160
Speaker 1: to make arrests. It's just so that they can get

1000
00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:16,320
Speaker 1: to where they need to be to gather and tell exactly,

1001
00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:18,040
Speaker 1: and that that's in this book. Like Eric Steo has

1002
00:47:18,120 --> 00:47:21,000
Speaker 1: official cover for Europe and different geographic areas of the globe.

1003
00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:22,640
Speaker 1: Like he has an alias, and he has a business

1004
00:47:22,680 --> 00:47:25,520
Speaker 1: and like you can be like a German military officer.

1005
00:47:25,960 --> 00:47:27,880
Speaker 1: That's all that is all in this That's all in

1006
00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:29,480
Speaker 1: this book, you know, because I feel like people to

1007
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:31,360
Speaker 1: pick up these books like expect a certain amount of

1008
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:33,840
Speaker 1: like knowledge about the military and tradecraft and stuff like that.

1009
00:47:34,280 --> 00:47:37,399
Speaker 1: But you're right. I mean, we had some guy in Afghanistan. Again.

1010
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:39,520
Speaker 1: It was just a young confessional whipsher guy. I mean,

1011
00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:41,920
Speaker 1: he was a full colonel. His name is Colonel Biddle,

1012
00:47:42,239 --> 00:47:44,840
Speaker 1: I mean, I think, and he just came on patrol

1013
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:48,160
Speaker 1: with us one day and he was his own guy,

1014
00:47:48,719 --> 00:47:50,319
Speaker 1: and we're doing patrols in the middle of the night

1015
00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:52,320
Speaker 1: and he's like, I gotta step out, and I'm like what,

1016
00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:54,800
Speaker 1: like where are you going? He just leaves the wire

1017
00:47:54,920 --> 00:47:57,120
Speaker 1: like we're out out of the wire, leaves our patrol

1018
00:47:57,160 --> 00:48:01,719
Speaker 1: base by himself. I have no idea where he goes. Uh.

1019
00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:05,920
Speaker 1: The next day, Uh, you know, he was gone, and

1020
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:08,920
Speaker 1: the local elders from that village were like, like, hey,

1021
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:11,800
Speaker 1: something happened last night, like so and so disappeared. And

1022
00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:15,680
Speaker 1: I'm just like Colonel Biddle, I mean, but this is

1023
00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:19,480
Speaker 1: just like a full bird colonel, just a singleton operator

1024
00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:21,680
Speaker 1: doing his own thing. He said he was a Special

1025
00:48:21,719 --> 00:48:24,560
Speaker 1: Forces guy. I mean, but like that stuff happens. The

1026
00:48:24,640 --> 00:48:28,399
Speaker 1: way that comes together is it's like an offline conversation

1027
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:33,000
Speaker 1: that happens between some spooky guy and some company commander. Oh,

1028
00:48:33,080 --> 00:48:35,800
Speaker 1: you're going on in operation of this area. Hey, I

1029
00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:38,879
Speaker 1: got this guy. He's a d I a contractor. He's

1030
00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:41,919
Speaker 1: gonna go along with you. And then yeah, the dude

1031
00:48:42,040 --> 00:48:44,479
Speaker 1: like you're out on patrol and the guy goes off

1032
00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:46,959
Speaker 1: and he's like, oh, I gotta go have a meeting.

1033
00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:49,880
Speaker 1: I'll see you know that happened. It's exactly it's exactly

1034
00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:51,839
Speaker 1: how it went down. I mean almost that you guys

1035
00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:54,040
Speaker 1: have experienced this and then you get to write about

1036
00:48:54,040 --> 00:48:57,120
Speaker 1: it because you know, we were talking earlier before we

1037
00:48:57,200 --> 00:48:59,880
Speaker 1: recorded about bred Thor. And the thing about bred Thor is,

1038
00:49:00,239 --> 00:49:02,759
Speaker 1: you know he's a civilian, so he'll check with guys

1039
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:05,680
Speaker 1: in the community. Hey is this legit? Would this really happen?

1040
00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:08,800
Speaker 1: With the dialogue really sound like this? For you guys,

1041
00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:11,400
Speaker 1: you've experienced it, and so now when you get to

1042
00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:13,520
Speaker 1: write about this type of thing you lived it. I

1043
00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:16,239
Speaker 1: think that's cool. You know, brad Thor is a huge

1044
00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:19,719
Speaker 1: infiration to my writing style. I think he's an amazing storyteller,

1045
00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:22,480
Speaker 1: and you're and you're absolutely right though, Uh, you know,

1046
00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:25,280
Speaker 1: I think this this harkens is something that's really important

1047
00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:28,320
Speaker 1: to me, and that's veterans getting involved in in the

1048
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:32,040
Speaker 1: national discourse, whether it's in the media or with mainstream storytelling.

1049
00:49:32,320 --> 00:49:36,160
Speaker 1: It's it's so important because every time a veteran steps

1050
00:49:36,239 --> 00:49:39,080
Speaker 1: up and decides to talk about something their story in

1051
00:49:39,239 --> 00:49:42,239
Speaker 1: the war, which it's just so important, Uh, it brings us,

1052
00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:44,320
Speaker 1: It brings civilians a little bit closer to our world.

1053
00:49:44,440 --> 00:49:46,399
Speaker 1: And I think that just makes this country a better place,

1054
00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:49,080
Speaker 1: and ultimately it makes makes the country a better place

1055
00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:52,160
Speaker 1: for veterans to live. And So for me, you know,

1056
00:49:52,239 --> 00:49:53,640
Speaker 1: I mean most of what I've done since I've been

1057
00:49:53,680 --> 00:49:55,880
Speaker 1: out and outlaw between gave me an amazing platform to

1058
00:49:55,960 --> 00:49:58,400
Speaker 1: help veterans. And I've got a national nonprofit called the

1059
00:49:58,400 --> 00:50:00,680
Speaker 1: American Warrior Initiative. So to what we do is give

1060
00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:02,680
Speaker 1: service dogs to veterans because they just they just saw

1061
00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:05,840
Speaker 1: they help they helped vets a lot. Man. The waitlist

1062
00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:08,279
Speaker 1: is like ten years and some of these dogs cost

1063
00:50:08,320 --> 00:50:10,640
Speaker 1: twenty five dollars. Where we cut through all that fun

1064
00:50:10,760 --> 00:50:12,640
Speaker 1: the dogs and get vets off of waitlist. And so

1065
00:50:12,719 --> 00:50:15,719
Speaker 1: that's what I've done. But I also started realizing, having

1066
00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:17,319
Speaker 1: watched some of these movies that we have in TV

1067
00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:20,560
Speaker 1: shows coming out like veterans, people that have been there

1068
00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:23,680
Speaker 1: and done that, need to start writing more mainstream stories

1069
00:50:23,719 --> 00:50:26,000
Speaker 1: because I grew up watching like Back to the Future

1070
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:28,480
Speaker 1: in Indiana Jones, and I like love dude, back to

1071
00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:29,920
Speaker 1: the Future is one of my favorite movies. I'm like,

1072
00:50:30,040 --> 00:50:34,560
Speaker 1: love Marty McFly love me some Indiana Jones. Yeah, exactly. So,

1073
00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:38,120
Speaker 1: but here's the deal. Who is this generation's Marty mcflyer

1074
00:50:38,160 --> 00:50:41,839
Speaker 1: Indiana Jones. We keep rebooting the same things that have worked, right,

1075
00:50:42,040 --> 00:50:45,280
Speaker 1: and so it's our job. I see, there's our personal

1076
00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:47,719
Speaker 1: mission to come up with mainstream characters that are young

1077
00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:49,840
Speaker 1: people can aspire to be, like like I wanted to

1078
00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:52,320
Speaker 1: be Indiana Gym. You know, I want to punch Nazis.

1079
00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:56,800
Speaker 1: Who doesn't want who doesn't want to punch Nazis? Man? Exactly.

1080
00:50:56,920 --> 00:50:59,520
Speaker 1: So I'm not saying Eric Deal is gonna be that guy,

1081
00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:01,440
Speaker 1: but I hope he is. Yeah, you know, and so

1082
00:51:01,560 --> 00:51:04,160
Speaker 1: that that's that's the motivation, right, that's the goal. You know.

1083
00:51:04,320 --> 00:51:07,600
Speaker 1: I'm in the midst of finishing the manuscript from my

1084
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:10,400
Speaker 1: own memoir. And as you're saying, yeah, you guys have

1085
00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:14,360
Speaker 1: gone the opposite direction, Well, because I didn't want to

1086
00:51:14,400 --> 00:51:16,879
Speaker 1: write my my own story. And you know what kind

1087
00:51:16,920 --> 00:51:19,840
Speaker 1: of like, um, when I I started writing it and

1088
00:51:19,920 --> 00:51:21,960
Speaker 1: I sat down in the approach to it, you know

1089
00:51:22,040 --> 00:51:25,640
Speaker 1: what really inspired me was um interviewing on this podcast

1090
00:51:25,920 --> 00:51:29,440
Speaker 1: Jocko Willing and Chris Parronto. Yeah, that guys have made

1091
00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:32,000
Speaker 1: Jo and Chris are both both of those guys like

1092
00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:34,960
Speaker 1: they dropped like the honesty card like bam, like right

1093
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:37,560
Speaker 1: on the table, and like after seeing that, I was like,

1094
00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:39,560
Speaker 1: you know, if I'm gonna do this, I have I

1095
00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:42,000
Speaker 1: feel like I have an obligation to at least be

1096
00:51:42,040 --> 00:51:44,000
Speaker 1: as honest as these guys have been and been as

1097
00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:46,880
Speaker 1: force them with it. And uh so the book is

1098
00:51:46,920 --> 00:51:49,600
Speaker 1: pretty open kimono, And uh that's great. I think it's

1099
00:51:49,640 --> 00:51:52,920
Speaker 1: gonna upset some people. That's okay. You know what, Look,

1100
00:51:52,960 --> 00:51:55,759
Speaker 1: Colonel Colonel Hackworth man like he was prolific in the

1101
00:51:55,800 --> 00:51:58,840
Speaker 1: wake of Vietnam, but the voice was unbelievably important and

1102
00:51:58,880 --> 00:52:01,160
Speaker 1: in many ways shape the a that our military has

1103
00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:04,960
Speaker 1: grown and operated since. So you have Look, I can't

1104
00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:09,600
Speaker 1: stand reading World War two accounts from generals that feel

1105
00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:12,719
Speaker 1: like war is sterile, like pieces of the chessboard. That

1106
00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:15,960
Speaker 1: is not what it's like. And so when I worked

1107
00:52:16,040 --> 00:52:19,200
Speaker 1: on writing out Labatoon, it had to be awards in

1108
00:52:19,239 --> 00:52:21,680
Speaker 1: all story because if you don't write a warts and

1109
00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:25,279
Speaker 1: all story and again filled with my mistakes as a

1110
00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:28,080
Speaker 1: young leader looking back in hindsight, Right, you don't have

1111
00:52:28,160 --> 00:52:30,520
Speaker 1: the benefit of hindsight when you're living it, but now

1112
00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:33,399
Speaker 1: now I do. If it's not awards in all story,

1113
00:52:33,440 --> 00:52:36,560
Speaker 1: you're doing the American people a disservice. And everybody that

1114
00:52:36,719 --> 00:52:41,080
Speaker 1: dawns that uniform in generations that follow, you know, are

1115
00:52:41,160 --> 00:52:43,719
Speaker 1: walking into a military that's going to be less capable

1116
00:52:44,160 --> 00:52:46,799
Speaker 1: because you didn't open your mouth and talk about And yeah,

1117
00:52:46,960 --> 00:52:49,920
Speaker 1: and I think that young kid who's like seventeen eighteen

1118
00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:52,160
Speaker 1: wants to join the military and he's reading your book

1119
00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:54,759
Speaker 1: or one day my book, like, they need to know

1120
00:52:54,840 --> 00:52:57,080
Speaker 1: about this stuff they do so they can avoid I mean,

1121
00:52:57,120 --> 00:52:58,880
Speaker 1: and I absolutely the same way. I hope that they

1122
00:52:58,920 --> 00:53:01,120
Speaker 1: can read about the mistake time made and avoid some

1123
00:53:01,200 --> 00:53:03,440
Speaker 1: of that. Absolutely. Look, it's so important, and and like

1124
00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:05,520
Speaker 1: you know that we're in a really tough time, right,

1125
00:53:05,560 --> 00:53:07,640
Speaker 1: It's it's a really tough time for veterans. And that's because,

1126
00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:09,480
Speaker 1: like I've I've said a couple of times, veterans are

1127
00:53:09,480 --> 00:53:11,719
Speaker 1: real far away from civilians in this country. You know,

1128
00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:16,400
Speaker 1: um but part and like it happened because a very

1129
00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:19,560
Speaker 1: small percentage of people serve. Veterans tend to not talk

1130
00:53:19,600 --> 00:53:22,680
Speaker 1: about their experience. Civilians, while appreciative, don't want to ask

1131
00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:25,000
Speaker 1: because they don't want to dredge up something that's potentially

1132
00:53:25,160 --> 00:53:29,359
Speaker 1: like hurtful or something dredge up painful memories. So as

1133
00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:32,239
Speaker 1: the percentage of veterans that have served has gone down

1134
00:53:32,760 --> 00:53:36,200
Speaker 1: and the gap has gotten wider because there's no dialogue

1135
00:53:36,239 --> 00:53:40,120
Speaker 1: going on. The way that you you fill that gap

1136
00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:44,120
Speaker 1: is by writing and telling your story, and so civilians

1137
00:53:44,200 --> 00:53:46,239
Speaker 1: read it, and then not only did they help you

1138
00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:48,040
Speaker 1: bear that burden, I mean you think about it, You

1139
00:53:48,120 --> 00:53:49,759
Speaker 1: take the story out of yourself and you put it

1140
00:53:49,880 --> 00:53:52,279
Speaker 1: on a page. It's no longer in you. People read

1141
00:53:52,360 --> 00:53:55,000
Speaker 1: it and they help you bear the burden, and then

1142
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:57,880
Speaker 1: they ask you questions about it. And if facilitates dialogue,

1143
00:53:57,880 --> 00:53:59,879
Speaker 1: and it brings people closer to veterans, and it helps

1144
00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:01,840
Speaker 1: heel the rift that is in this country. And so

1145
00:54:02,920 --> 00:54:04,840
Speaker 1: and so That's that's why it's important for guys like you,

1146
00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:06,759
Speaker 1: man like door kickers and tell your story, and so

1147
00:54:07,040 --> 00:54:09,560
Speaker 1: I'm there with you. It's important mission. It's also important

1148
00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:12,279
Speaker 1: historically because I mean, historians are gonna be able to

1149
00:54:12,320 --> 00:54:16,160
Speaker 1: pick up um outlaw pla tune and examine that, and

1150
00:54:16,200 --> 00:54:18,480
Speaker 1: they're gonna then they're gonna this is decades from now.

1151
00:54:18,520 --> 00:54:20,920
Speaker 1: They're gonna be able to go look at declassified documents,

1152
00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:24,120
Speaker 1: declassified predator feed solute footage, and they're gonna be able

1153
00:54:24,160 --> 00:54:27,120
Speaker 1: to put it all together, um in a way that

1154
00:54:27,360 --> 00:54:29,279
Speaker 1: hasn't been done in wars in the past though. So

1155
00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:31,720
Speaker 1: they'll have the first person account, they'll have the documents,

1156
00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:35,440
Speaker 1: they'll have the video exactly exactly. So it's it's it's

1157
00:54:35,440 --> 00:54:38,160
Speaker 1: an important way to recount the war. It's this is

1158
00:54:38,200 --> 00:54:41,200
Speaker 1: our longest war and and it's because of that it's

1159
00:54:41,239 --> 00:54:43,279
Speaker 1: important for vets to get out there and tell their story,

1160
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:46,359
Speaker 1: whether it's nonfiction or fiction. By the way, I gotta

1161
00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:50,000
Speaker 1: give some major props to William Morrow HarperCollins, the publisher

1162
00:54:50,719 --> 00:54:52,480
Speaker 1: Jack does this. This is just funny. So when the

1163
00:54:52,520 --> 00:54:54,480
Speaker 1: book was sent to us, they sent us to the

1164
00:54:54,480 --> 00:54:56,839
Speaker 1: book which is out today. Yes, Man of War. Pick

1165
00:54:56,880 --> 00:54:59,279
Speaker 1: it up Eric Steel novel, the first book. But they

1166
00:54:59,320 --> 00:55:03,080
Speaker 1: also sent this, which was this dossier. Uh. And I

1167
00:55:03,160 --> 00:55:05,600
Speaker 1: remember you said Jack saw this and you were like, dude,

1168
00:55:05,600 --> 00:55:10,240
Speaker 1: I need yea. They look back that she is the genius.

1169
00:55:10,400 --> 00:55:14,520
Speaker 1: Danielle Bartlet is a publicist extraordinary. So if Jack's memoir

1170
00:55:14,719 --> 00:55:18,520
Speaker 1: has something like this, he copied it from you, it's

1171
00:55:18,560 --> 00:55:22,000
Speaker 1: so important. I looked at it, like what the just

1172
00:55:22,120 --> 00:55:25,880
Speaker 1: really it's it's smart because you guys get how many books,

1173
00:55:25,920 --> 00:55:28,080
Speaker 1: and it's like you need something that like sets it apart,

1174
00:55:28,320 --> 00:55:31,080
Speaker 1: and you do you flip through it and you get yes,

1175
00:55:31,280 --> 00:55:34,759
Speaker 1: yeah exactly. So it's it's that's all her nothing to

1176
00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:37,239
Speaker 1: do with me. Yeah, I know right when you saw it,

1177
00:55:37,719 --> 00:55:40,120
Speaker 1: because it is true. We get sent dozens of books

1178
00:55:40,680 --> 00:55:43,359
Speaker 1: and this stands out as opposed to one little piece

1179
00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:45,600
Speaker 1: of paper. That's like you know, and then on top

1180
00:55:45,680 --> 00:55:47,920
Speaker 1: of that you have the quote from Lee Child on

1181
00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:50,040
Speaker 1: the front of the book, and that speaks volume. I mean,

1182
00:55:50,160 --> 00:55:52,399
Speaker 1: for whatever reason that he gave me a he sells

1183
00:55:52,440 --> 00:55:55,239
Speaker 1: a book every fifteen seconds. And so I was, I'm

1184
00:55:55,280 --> 00:55:58,200
Speaker 1: not joking, that's true, Like he's he's ridiculous, he's prolific.

1185
00:55:58,239 --> 00:56:00,640
Speaker 1: He's been writing since the mid nineties. Was reading him

1186
00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:03,520
Speaker 1: when I was still in junior high. He is this

1187
00:56:03,719 --> 00:56:05,680
Speaker 1: the king of this genre and like to get a

1188
00:56:05,719 --> 00:56:09,000
Speaker 1: blurb from him has been like just amazing. That must

1189
00:56:09,000 --> 00:56:12,040
Speaker 1: have been so cool. He's amazing. He's just an amazing guy. Yeah,

1190
00:56:12,160 --> 00:56:13,680
Speaker 1: and I got to sign books next to him at

1191
00:56:13,719 --> 00:56:16,759
Speaker 1: thriller Fest this year. Nice. Yeah, that's pretty awesome, right,

1192
00:56:17,200 --> 00:56:18,640
Speaker 1: it means a dream. I don't know if this book

1193
00:56:18,680 --> 00:56:20,040
Speaker 1: is gonna do well. I hope it does, but I

1194
00:56:20,120 --> 00:56:21,840
Speaker 1: got to sign books next to Lee Child, so that

1195
00:56:22,520 --> 00:56:25,240
Speaker 1: I definitely think it will because I think that people

1196
00:56:25,320 --> 00:56:28,040
Speaker 1: are excited to read something completely different from you, which

1197
00:56:28,120 --> 00:56:30,960
Speaker 1: is what this is totally different style of book and

1198
00:56:31,040 --> 00:56:34,400
Speaker 1: the first book did tremendously. So check out Man of

1199
00:56:34,480 --> 00:56:37,719
Speaker 1: War out today. Um, you know this is going up

1200
00:56:37,760 --> 00:56:41,000
Speaker 1: on Friday, but out this week. Official Sean Parnell dot

1201
00:56:41,040 --> 00:56:43,040
Speaker 1: com which I was looking at. The website also has

1202
00:56:43,040 --> 00:56:44,879
Speaker 1: a link to the charity which we were speaking about.

1203
00:56:44,960 --> 00:56:48,440
Speaker 1: Some people want to donate. UM at Sean Parnell USA

1204
00:56:48,560 --> 00:56:52,759
Speaker 1: on Twitter, at Official Sean Parnell on Instagram. UM, I

1205
00:56:52,840 --> 00:56:55,200
Speaker 1: do want to mention what we have going on at

1206
00:56:56,000 --> 00:56:58,759
Speaker 1: Hurricane Media of course before we wrap this up, so

1207
00:56:59,120 --> 00:57:00,920
Speaker 1: be sure to check out Create Club. We have an

1208
00:57:00,960 --> 00:57:04,120
Speaker 1: exclusive collaboration watch on the Horizon that we did with

1209
00:57:04,320 --> 00:57:08,080
Speaker 1: NFW Watches UH, one of the next big items coming soon.

1210
00:57:08,280 --> 00:57:11,000
Speaker 1: In the premium crate. We have different tiers of membership,

1211
00:57:11,040 --> 00:57:13,480
Speaker 1: as many of you know, depending on how prepared you

1212
00:57:13,560 --> 00:57:16,280
Speaker 1: want to be. Gift options are available as well. Scott

1213
00:57:16,400 --> 00:57:18,200
Speaker 1: Whitner from the load out Room and the guys are

1214
00:57:18,240 --> 00:57:23,880
Speaker 1: currently working on bringing you custom products in everything from

1215
00:57:23,920 --> 00:57:27,320
Speaker 1: sunglass cases to E d C bags and other manly products.

1216
00:57:27,400 --> 00:57:30,280
Speaker 1: It's a club fore men by men. You can check

1217
00:57:30,320 --> 00:57:32,720
Speaker 1: that all out at Create Club dot Us. Once again,

1218
00:57:32,760 --> 00:57:36,400
Speaker 1: that's Create Club dot Us for you dog owners. Check

1219
00:57:36,480 --> 00:57:39,640
Speaker 1: this out. You're gonna love this. We've just partnered with Kuna.

1220
00:57:40,000 --> 00:57:42,720
Speaker 1: They have a team of trained canine handlers picking out

1221
00:57:42,760 --> 00:57:45,360
Speaker 1: a box for your dog every month of healthy treats

1222
00:57:45,440 --> 00:57:48,640
Speaker 1: and training aids. It's custom built for your dogs size

1223
00:57:48,800 --> 00:57:52,360
Speaker 1: and age as well. The products are US sourced, all natural,

1224
00:57:52,720 --> 00:57:55,120
Speaker 1: and they not only promote a healthy diet but also

1225
00:57:55,200 --> 00:57:58,400
Speaker 1: promote being active with your dog. So no matter what

1226
00:57:58,600 --> 00:58:00,640
Speaker 1: sized dog you have, this is just what you're looking for.

1227
00:58:00,760 --> 00:58:03,480
Speaker 1: You can see all that at Kuna dot dog. That's

1228
00:58:03,560 --> 00:58:06,800
Speaker 1: Kuna dot dog. It's efficient for you. Your dog will

1229
00:58:06,800 --> 00:58:09,800
Speaker 1: appreciate it as well, of course, and that's spelled CEU

1230
00:58:10,120 --> 00:58:13,520
Speaker 1: n A dot d o G. Also as a reminder

1231
00:58:13,560 --> 00:58:16,000
Speaker 1: for those listening for a limited timing and receive a

1232
00:58:16,160 --> 00:58:20,080
Speaker 1: fifty percent discounted membership to the spec Ops Channel. That's

1233
00:58:20,120 --> 00:58:24,280
Speaker 1: our channel that offers the most exclusive shows, documentaries and

1234
00:58:24,600 --> 00:58:28,960
Speaker 1: interviews covering the most exciting military content today. The spec

1235
00:58:29,000 --> 00:58:33,240
Speaker 1: Ops channel premier show Training Cell follows former Special Operations

1236
00:58:33,360 --> 00:58:36,760
Speaker 1: Forces as they participate in the most advanced training in

1237
00:58:36,800 --> 00:58:41,360
Speaker 1: the country, everything from shooting schools, defensive driving, jungle and

1238
00:58:41,520 --> 00:58:45,600
Speaker 1: winter warfare, climbing, and much more. Again, you can watch

1239
00:58:45,720 --> 00:58:49,200
Speaker 1: this content by subscribing to the spec Ops Channel that's

1240
00:58:49,240 --> 00:58:52,320
Speaker 1: at spec ops channel dot com and take advantage of

1241
00:58:52,360 --> 00:58:55,720
Speaker 1: a limited time offer a fifty percent off your membership

1242
00:58:56,120 --> 00:58:59,680
Speaker 1: that's only four a month. Appreciate you coming in, man,

1243
00:58:59,800 --> 00:59:01,800
Speaker 1: I know it's a super busy day for you today.

1244
00:59:01,840 --> 00:59:03,920
Speaker 1: You did Fox and Friends this morning. Yeah. Yeah, it's

1245
00:59:03,920 --> 00:59:05,280
Speaker 1: cool though, man, Like I've been wanting to do this

1246
00:59:05,360 --> 00:59:08,280
Speaker 1: podcast for a long time. I've known Brandon since Soft

1247
00:59:08,400 --> 00:59:11,200
Speaker 1: represented infancy, so it's amazing to see this grow, and

1248
00:59:11,920 --> 00:59:13,360
Speaker 1: you know, it's kind of I'm kind of geeking out

1249
00:59:13,360 --> 00:59:16,680
Speaker 1: actually getting to meet meet Jack and do this podcast

1250
00:59:16,760 --> 00:59:18,400
Speaker 1: and stuff. It's kind of cool. So thank you for

1251
00:59:18,480 --> 00:59:20,840
Speaker 1: having me. No, I really appreciate it. And as I

1252
00:59:21,000 --> 00:59:23,240
Speaker 1: was saying, like, it's funny, you guys have never like

1253
00:59:23,320 --> 00:59:27,160
Speaker 1: overlapped in service, but you know, because it's cool your

1254
00:59:27,200 --> 00:59:29,360
Speaker 1: first time meeting each other, because you're sure I was

1255
00:59:29,400 --> 00:59:32,360
Speaker 1: approximately the same age. All of us are in our thirties,

1256
00:59:32,400 --> 00:59:34,400
Speaker 1: so I figured at some point you may have met

1257
00:59:34,480 --> 00:59:38,360
Speaker 1: each other, but I guess not, No, I don't think so. Yeah,

1258
00:59:38,720 --> 00:59:40,560
Speaker 1: well it's been a cool one man. And I really

1259
00:59:40,720 --> 00:59:44,120
Speaker 1: think people are going to appreciate the book. Um. You know,

1260
00:59:44,200 --> 00:59:47,320
Speaker 1: as I was saying to you when you came in here,

1261
00:59:47,600 --> 00:59:50,280
Speaker 1: there definitely is just an abundance of veteran books on

1262
00:59:50,360 --> 00:59:53,240
Speaker 1: the market right now, but I think that this has

1263
00:59:53,320 --> 00:59:56,040
Speaker 1: something that sets itself apart from everything else out there.

1264
00:59:56,200 --> 00:59:58,479
Speaker 1: Thank you. I appreciate that, and I hope, I hope people.

1265
00:59:58,480 --> 01:00:00,840
Speaker 1: I hope it resonates with people for sure. Yeah. I

1266
01:00:00,920 --> 01:00:03,120
Speaker 1: mean when somebody like you jumps in there and tries

1267
01:00:03,200 --> 01:00:05,280
Speaker 1: to or does write a book like this, I think

1268
01:00:05,320 --> 01:00:08,480
Speaker 1: you just brings something different to the table. It's just

1269
01:00:08,600 --> 01:00:11,000
Speaker 1: a gritty nature of it, you know. I got I

1270
01:00:11,120 --> 01:00:13,520
Speaker 1: was watching this movie without with my daughter last night.

1271
01:00:13,560 --> 01:00:16,080
Speaker 1: Actually it's these people were like running through the woods

1272
01:00:16,120 --> 01:00:18,000
Speaker 1: and everything like that, and they're like women are wearing

1273
01:00:18,040 --> 01:00:20,920
Speaker 1: like perfect makeup and then all of like, I was like,

1274
01:00:21,080 --> 01:00:23,600
Speaker 1: anybody who's actually done something like this would know you're

1275
01:00:23,600 --> 01:00:27,080
Speaker 1: gonna be covered in sweat and you're gonna be dirty. Exactly,

1276
01:00:27,200 --> 01:00:29,440
Speaker 1: even though I have warn makeup in the field, I'm

1277
01:00:29,440 --> 01:00:35,160
Speaker 1: not gonna I couldn't even get through that sentence without well.

1278
01:00:35,440 --> 01:00:39,400
Speaker 1: It's official Sean Parnell dot com at Sean Parnel USA,

1279
01:00:39,520 --> 01:00:43,280
Speaker 1: on Twitter at official Sean Parnell on Instagram. It's been

1280
01:00:43,360 --> 01:00:45,440
Speaker 1: great man, thanks for taking the trip in We We

1281
01:00:45,520 --> 01:00:49,280
Speaker 1: really appreciate your welcome. Thanks for having me. You've been

1282
01:00:49,400 --> 01:00:53,960
Speaker 1: listening to self Rep Radio. New episodes up every Wednesday

1283
01:00:54,000 --> 01:00:58,120
Speaker 1: and Friday. Follow the show on Instagram and Twitter at

1284
01:00:58,240 --> 01:00:59,280
Speaker 1: self Rep Radio.