1 00:00:00,600 --> 00:00:04,120 Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics, 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:07,120 Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of 3 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:11,040 Speaker 1: today's best minds and ball Snaro showed more respect for 4 00:00:11,080 --> 00:00:14,920 Speaker 1: democracy than Donald Trump. We have an exciting show. First, 5 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:19,440 Speaker 1: we'll talk to Angelo Kira Sona, the CEO of Media Matters, 6 00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 1: about Elon Musk's Twitter and Fox News and what the 7 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:27,800 Speaker 1: two have in common. Then Josh call, the Attorney General 8 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:31,280 Speaker 1: of the great State of Wisconsin, will tell us about 9 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:35,080 Speaker 1: his super important race. But first we have the editor 10 00:00:35,159 --> 00:00:41,120 Speaker 1: of The Bulwark, Jonathan Ving Last. Welcome Jonathan Last to 11 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:44,760 Speaker 1: Fast Politics. Molly, it's good to be with you. I 12 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 1: am so excited to have you. Jonathan Last. I call 13 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:52,040 Speaker 1: him j V. L. From The Bulwark, my editor at 14 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:54,680 Speaker 1: The Bulwark, one of my favorite editors ever to work 15 00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:58,560 Speaker 1: was total genius, one of my favorite writers to ever 16 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:02,840 Speaker 1: work with. I miss you. I miss you. You made 17 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:05,360 Speaker 1: me the writer I am today. And I also one 18 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:07,280 Speaker 1: of the many things I love about you is that 19 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:12,120 Speaker 1: you come from conservative world. You come from the Weekly Standard, 20 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:17,000 Speaker 1: which is now largely Bulwark, though some dispatch right yeah, well, 21 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:19,679 Speaker 1: because now primarily people who had no connection to the 22 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:23,520 Speaker 1: Weekly Standard. It originally grew. Yeah, it originally grew from it. 23 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:26,959 Speaker 1: So you're looking at the Republican Party right now. Paul 24 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:31,000 Speaker 1: Pelosi attacked in his house eighty two years old. Ted 25 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:35,760 Speaker 1: Cruz says, perhaps there's more to this story. I mean, 26 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:40,240 Speaker 1: what the funk man? I think it's pretty easy to understand. Actually, 27 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:44,800 Speaker 1: so what Republican had the correct response to this? Mike Pence. 28 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:50,880 Speaker 1: Mike Pence rushed out with the full on thoughts and prayers, 29 00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:55,040 Speaker 1: total condemnation. We are standing with Nancy Pelosi and her 30 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:58,800 Speaker 1: family at this awful time. Mike Pence is the anti 31 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 1: coup Republican who, despite the fact that he was Donald 32 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 1: Trump's right hand and like literally was willing to do 33 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:08,960 Speaker 1: everything except the coup. He was with everything else except 34 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:11,799 Speaker 1: the coup. And because he wasn't, he's persona on grata 35 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:15,320 Speaker 1: and the Republican Party basically, and you are anti coup 36 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:19,320 Speaker 1: and you are pro like basic humanity and decency, and 37 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:22,880 Speaker 1: that makes you not a good fit with Republican voters. 38 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:25,519 Speaker 1: The reason I say I think this is easy to 39 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:28,200 Speaker 1: understand is because think about it this way. Wind the 40 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:31,680 Speaker 1: clock back ten years and something like this happens. If 41 00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:34,239 Speaker 1: Steve King ten years ago, this had happened, and then 42 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:37,640 Speaker 1: Steve King had gone out and said something awful and 43 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:40,040 Speaker 1: ugly about the Pelosi's, it would have been bad for him. 44 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:43,160 Speaker 1: There are other Republicans would have slapped him down. They 45 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 1: would have gone through the motions and said what they 46 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 1: should have, and voters would have cared about. Republicans would 47 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:49,919 Speaker 1: have said the right things, done the thoughts and prayers thing, 48 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:53,200 Speaker 1: because voters expected it of them and would have punished 49 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 1: them if they hadn't. And we're past that point now. 50 00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:58,360 Speaker 1: None of these Republicans who have tried it out. Carry 51 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:02,160 Speaker 1: Lake is out there tiptoeing with the gay lover trist 52 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:05,360 Speaker 1: gone wrong thing. She has an election in like a week. 53 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 1: She's not gonna lose any votes because of that. And 54 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:09,840 Speaker 1: in fact, I would say the opposite. If you are 55 00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:12,519 Speaker 1: a Republican and good standing who is facing voters in 56 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:14,960 Speaker 1: a week, you do not want to be seen as 57 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 1: being in the Mike Pence position of like thoughts and 58 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:20,640 Speaker 1: prayers or these people. Violence has no part And what's 59 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:24,800 Speaker 1: changed his Republican voters. Republican voters now positively and affirmatively 60 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:28,639 Speaker 1: want this sort of thing. This tracks with the entirety 61 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 1: of what the Republican policy positions are right, Republicans don't 62 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:35,560 Speaker 1: care about like, there aren't things they want to do 63 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 1: with the government. They just want to hurt the people 64 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:40,320 Speaker 1: they hate. Right, This is like the Ranta Santa's Secret sauce. 65 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:45,119 Speaker 1: He will take refugees fleeing communist violence in Venezuela out 66 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:48,560 Speaker 1: of Texas and drop them off and Martha's vineyard, and 67 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:51,360 Speaker 1: everybody loves it. Right. He will hurt the economy in 68 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:54,080 Speaker 1: Florida by going after Disney and her tax barriers, but 69 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:57,040 Speaker 1: everybody loves it because he's hurting the people they hate. 70 00:03:57,200 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 1: And this is now the only real good that Republican 71 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:05,120 Speaker 1: voters crave from their people. It's funny because it's like, 72 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 1: I think so much about this idea that small dollar 73 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 1: donations would saw remember this all idea, yea, yeah, that 74 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:18,719 Speaker 1: small dollar donations will democratize democracy and they will then 75 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:21,920 Speaker 1: cause will have everyone will be John F. Kennedy. And 76 00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:25,680 Speaker 1: instead what happened is small dollar donations are like Marjorie 77 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:28,719 Speaker 1: Taylor Green is the queen of small dollar donations. So, 78 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:32,200 Speaker 1: I mean, we see things devolving into this kind of 79 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:35,680 Speaker 1: free for all, and I'm curious. I mean, I guess 80 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:40,240 Speaker 1: I sort of understand what happened, right, Like news got decentralized, 81 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 1: there was enough fake news people got kind of I 82 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 1: was reading something about the villages, and that's a great 83 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:50,040 Speaker 1: example of like people who were cut off from a 84 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 1: lot of older people were cut off from local news, 85 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 1: they got their news on Facebook, and they got radicalized. 86 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 1: I mean, is it just that simple or do you 87 00:04:57,000 --> 00:04:59,039 Speaker 1: think there's more to this story? It's hard to say. 88 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:03,400 Speaker 1: Part of it maybe permission structures. Right, everybody, we are 89 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:06,040 Speaker 1: all angels and devils. We all have our good impulses 90 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:10,200 Speaker 1: and our bad impulses, and the Internet is essentially it's 91 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 1: a mob, right, And part of the things which just 92 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:15,520 Speaker 1: goes back hundreds of years the crowd psychology, people and 93 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:19,960 Speaker 1: mobs behave differently than they do individually and with as 94 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:22,919 Speaker 1: the permission structures have sort of told people, hey, that 95 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:25,240 Speaker 1: thing you used to keep inside because he knew it 96 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 1: was wrong and you're sort of embarrassed in a shame 97 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:29,640 Speaker 1: to do it. As permission structures have changed and are 98 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:31,599 Speaker 1: more and more people doing, and people are like, oh, okay, 99 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:33,160 Speaker 1: well I guess we just don't have and this is 100 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 1: the norms, right, This is all through the Trump years 101 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:38,040 Speaker 1: people like me were made fun of her, saying, oh, 102 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:40,760 Speaker 1: with your norms and your values, like, well, I don't know, 103 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:44,880 Speaker 1: Like people are terrible, which is the children, right? I mean, 104 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:48,479 Speaker 1: children are absolute savages, and parents spend a lot of 105 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:51,320 Speaker 1: time and energy and money trying to socialize them. You 106 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 1: want to bury all the impulses and like, oh you 107 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:55,760 Speaker 1: want you want Sally's toy. No, you can't hit her 108 00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 1: over the head with a stick and take it. That's 109 00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 1: not okay. It's spoken like someone with a lot of children, 110 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:03,320 Speaker 1: as I say, as someone who has a lot of 111 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:06,279 Speaker 1: children anyway, So yes, go on. So I think that 112 00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 1: that's a part of what's going on. There's like a 113 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:12,360 Speaker 1: weird decadence to all of this too, like the people 114 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 1: acting like we are standing at the end of the 115 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:18,839 Speaker 1: world with everything falling apart, like we're in the ten 116 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:22,159 Speaker 1: minutes before the Mad Max movie starts, and I don't know, 117 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:23,919 Speaker 1: you look around, like things look pretty good to me. 118 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:27,800 Speaker 1: They ain't perfect, but like the world is moving, unemployment 119 00:06:27,839 --> 00:06:31,120 Speaker 1: to three point five percent, people are unhappy that there's inflation, 120 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:34,359 Speaker 1: and there's been an uptick and non violent crime but 121 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:37,720 Speaker 1: a downtick in violent crime. I don't know, And I 122 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:41,240 Speaker 1: think that that's what decadence is. Decadence is having the 123 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:46,080 Speaker 1: freedom to cosplay like things are terrible precisely because things 124 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:49,160 Speaker 1: aren't terrible. So I want to like drill down on 125 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:52,919 Speaker 1: that for a second, because I think that's a really 126 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:56,839 Speaker 1: important point. And also the other thing that I feel 127 00:06:56,880 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 1: like we don't talk about it at all and I 128 00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:01,040 Speaker 1: wonder about it, is like, how much of this is 129 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:06,200 Speaker 1: just like we went through this really stressful pandemic where 130 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:08,520 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know, I spent three months thinking 131 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 1: that we were all going to maybe not three months, 132 00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 1: but I certainly spent a month or two thinking like, 133 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 1: oh wow, this is it for us, and washing off 134 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 1: my Amazon boxes and completely convinced that this was the 135 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 1: end of it. And I just wonder how much of 136 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 1: this is caused by that. I think it might be 137 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:27,200 Speaker 1: exascerbated by it, but I don't think it's caused by it. 138 00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:29,040 Speaker 1: Can I tell you a story? Can we do story 139 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 1: time for sixty seconds? So at my old magazine Weekly Standard, 140 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 1: we would go out on these cruises. Right, rich people 141 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:39,080 Speaker 1: would pay to come and go sailing with us for 142 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:41,800 Speaker 1: seven days. I don't know what sort of sick human 143 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:44,360 Speaker 1: being want to do that, but they did. And our 144 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:46,800 Speaker 1: big responsibility was hosting at dinner table at nights. And 145 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:48,200 Speaker 1: I don't know if you've ever been on a cruise, 146 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 1: but on cruise you have two nights of the week 147 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:53,600 Speaker 1: where they are formal nights, and all the old rich 148 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 1: people get dressed up in like spangly ball gowns and 149 00:07:56,880 --> 00:08:01,800 Speaker 1: tuxes and stuff. It's two thousand and it's two thousand twelve. 150 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 1: It's we're gonna run up to the two thousand twelve elections. 151 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 1: And we are on a cruise in the Caribbean, and 152 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:11,240 Speaker 1: it is formal night, and I'm sitting around a table 153 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:13,680 Speaker 1: with a bunch of these people, the youngest of whom 154 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 1: has got to be seventy eight. And they're all phenomenally 155 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:19,720 Speaker 1: wealthy because they've come on this thing. And I'll never 156 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:23,240 Speaker 1: forget what dinner was. Dinner was lobster thermidor, and they're 157 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:26,520 Speaker 1: all eating lobster thermidor on this beautiful ship in the 158 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 1: middle of the Caribbean. And they were telling me how 159 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:34,360 Speaker 1: things were worse in America than they had ever been 160 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:37,240 Speaker 1: in the country's history. I started trying to push back 161 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 1: a little bit on this, and I was like, Okay, 162 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 1: So hold on, So I mean, are we talking seriously 163 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:43,520 Speaker 1: or literally? Like, and they're like, literally, I said, we're 164 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:47,360 Speaker 1: worse than we were during the seventies. Absolutely, things are 165 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:48,760 Speaker 1: worse than they were doing the seven worse than they 166 00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:50,839 Speaker 1: were doing the Great Depression, Absolutely worse than they were 167 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:53,200 Speaker 1: doing the thirties, worse than worse than the Civil Warrior. 168 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:55,880 Speaker 1: And I saw that. I'm like, you're fucking eating lobster 169 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:59,440 Speaker 1: thermidor in a tuxedo in the middle of the Caribbean, Like, 170 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:02,120 Speaker 1: how could you possibly think this is real? And this 171 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:05,200 Speaker 1: is I think this decondence has been floating around a lot, 172 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:07,920 Speaker 1: and I don't know how to fight it because the ultimate, 173 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 1: the ultimate answer is what we have as a human problem, 174 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:15,680 Speaker 1: and human problems are intractable and people are garbage. Well 175 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:18,680 Speaker 1: that's a bit much. I mean, I mean, I agree, 176 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 1: and I certainly agree. This is a problem of affluence, right, 177 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:25,000 Speaker 1: this is a problem of like we have everything we 178 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:28,800 Speaker 1: need and probably too much, and so that is like, 179 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:32,560 Speaker 1: certainly I get that, but I also do think, like 180 00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:34,840 Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe I'm a cock eyed to optimist. 181 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:36,960 Speaker 1: I hate to think of myself that way, but like 182 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:40,720 Speaker 1: I do think that ultimately people are right. I do 183 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:43,240 Speaker 1: think you're right about the mob mentality stuff, and that 184 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:46,200 Speaker 1: is really grim. But I also do think that people 185 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:50,040 Speaker 1: are weirdly good and when you get and you see it, 186 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:52,440 Speaker 1: when you get people in front of each other, or 187 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:56,600 Speaker 1: even just like the clapping during the pandemic, Like, I 188 00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 1: do think there's an innate goodness in all of us, 189 00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:06,080 Speaker 1: even the people we don't agree with. Sometimes maybe the 190 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:09,600 Speaker 1: irony here is you're much more religious than I am. Yeah, 191 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:11,800 Speaker 1: and part of the religion things that people are like 192 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:15,120 Speaker 1: colled to be better than themselves, right, And part of 193 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:19,079 Speaker 1: this is probably like the devolution of Christianity in America 194 00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:23,480 Speaker 1: from being a religion to a sliver of identity politics, 195 00:10:23,559 --> 00:10:26,000 Speaker 1: which is like a real thing. That's a problem. I 196 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:28,440 Speaker 1: don't want to romanticize the past. We had all of 197 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:30,440 Speaker 1: these fights in the seventies. We had them in the 198 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:33,679 Speaker 1: sixties too. In the sixties we had our candidates being 199 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:38,240 Speaker 1: assassinated and our civil rights leaders. Yeah, and the seventies right, exactly, 200 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:41,079 Speaker 1: I don't want to romanticize that stuff. But also, like 201 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:45,320 Speaker 1: the Cold War, there was a vague politics stops the 202 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:47,760 Speaker 1: water's edge, and it wasn't totally true but it was 203 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:51,200 Speaker 1: true enough, and the end of the Cold War really 204 00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:54,560 Speaker 1: changed things in American ways that people didn't fully understand 205 00:10:54,559 --> 00:10:56,680 Speaker 1: it first, and ways which were quite good and helpful 206 00:10:57,000 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 1: in some ways. Do you remember this. There's a lot 207 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:02,839 Speaker 1: of as things were kind unraveling in a lot of 208 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:04,800 Speaker 1: people said, what we really need is a big crisis, 209 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:08,280 Speaker 1: because America had a big crisis, then we'd all pull together. Right, 210 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:11,280 Speaker 1: we got our real crisis, and in fact, actually it 211 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:14,840 Speaker 1: fractured us. So that's the question to me, what changed 212 00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:18,840 Speaker 1: between nine eleven and COVID, right, Because the initial response 213 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:21,360 Speaker 1: from nine eleven and a response that lasted honestly like 214 00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:24,520 Speaker 1: a good year and a half, was a real like togetherness, 215 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:28,240 Speaker 1: we're all in this together, and again, not everywhere, not always, 216 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:32,200 Speaker 1: not perfectly, but in general, and the in general response 217 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:35,280 Speaker 1: to COVID was not that. Yeah, I think that's right. 218 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:37,720 Speaker 1: I mean, I still feel like I mean, I just 219 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:40,480 Speaker 1: feel like if we could just get a few Republican 220 00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:44,280 Speaker 1: politicians to say like it's too much, and you could 221 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:46,960 Speaker 1: get the critical mass to say like this is too much, 222 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:49,719 Speaker 1: we got to take down the temperature. And I mean, 223 00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:51,520 Speaker 1: I know it's not going to happen because they want 224 00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:53,880 Speaker 1: to win their primaries. But it does seem like we 225 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:58,280 Speaker 1: got here in a very stupid way, right, I mean, 226 00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:01,120 Speaker 1: I worry the history teachers us that you always get 227 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:03,199 Speaker 1: there in the stupidest possible way, right, I mean a 228 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:07,319 Speaker 1: World War One, it's never the legion of Doom sitting 229 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:10,880 Speaker 1: around with the perfect master plan that nobody could possibly foil. 230 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:14,520 Speaker 1: The beer Hall Putsch was not some great stroke of genius. 231 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:17,520 Speaker 1: I think it's often it's often the you get there 232 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:20,000 Speaker 1: because you're in the dumbest possible timeline. And I don't know. 233 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:21,800 Speaker 1: I look at it, and if you wanted me to 234 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:24,440 Speaker 1: be optimistic, if you wanted to to really you said, hey, 235 00:12:24,559 --> 00:12:27,160 Speaker 1: do give me thirty seconds of optimism. What I would 236 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:30,040 Speaker 1: say is what we often have done in America is 237 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:33,360 Speaker 1: we do not solve our cultural conflicts. We just build 238 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:35,800 Speaker 1: over them. We pave over them with something new, and 239 00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:38,360 Speaker 1: that new thing will eventually give rise to its own 240 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:40,880 Speaker 1: cultural conflicts. But the old things for the past don't 241 00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:43,120 Speaker 1: ever get solved. They just get buried and we move on, 242 00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:46,640 Speaker 1: and we don't often know what it is going to 243 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:48,880 Speaker 1: be that moves us on. You can't see the pandemic 244 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 1: because nobody expects an inquisition, But you also can't see 245 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:54,920 Speaker 1: the Berlin Wall falling, right, I mean, the good things 246 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:57,560 Speaker 1: that happen are going to happen, and most of the 247 00:12:57,559 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 1: time you can't predict them either. So maybe, just in 248 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:03,520 Speaker 1: one of these sloths where we're in the trough and 249 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:05,840 Speaker 1: we're waiting for the way to kick us back up 250 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:08,040 Speaker 1: and to wind up in a good place, maybe we 251 00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:13,040 Speaker 1: are one pet boota judge away from rediscovering our shared many. 252 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:16,280 Speaker 1: If you wanted to really make me be optimistic, I 253 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:18,960 Speaker 1: would say that that is because we're at the tail 254 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:21,920 Speaker 1: end of a generational turnover. Right, we still have baby 255 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:26,440 Speaker 1: boom presidents. We're like our our eighth baby boom presidents somehow, 256 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:31,600 Speaker 1: and when we finally have generational turnover in American leadership, 257 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:35,360 Speaker 1: that that will usher in a transformation in which where 258 00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:37,240 Speaker 1: we just build over this stuff and started new And 259 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:40,240 Speaker 1: maybe that will happen. Or maybe the future is carry lake. Well, 260 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:41,960 Speaker 1: I mean, I think there's a world in which the 261 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 1: future is something bad caused by carry light. Yeah. I 262 00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:49,600 Speaker 1: think that's probably more like I think we have intractable 263 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:53,640 Speaker 1: systematic problems, like in how voters are arranged throughout the 264 00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:56,079 Speaker 1: country and how we allocate power through the electoral College 265 00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:58,280 Speaker 1: in the Senate. WHI you're going to cause all sorts 266 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:00,079 Speaker 1: of trouble, but you asked me to be optimistic. That 267 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:01,720 Speaker 1: was as good as I can do it for. Yet, well, 268 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:04,040 Speaker 1: I think it's a good point. And like the truth is. 269 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:07,959 Speaker 1: I mean, I was watching Obama speak last week and 270 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:11,120 Speaker 1: I was thinking to myself, like he was he's such 271 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:14,560 Speaker 1: a gifted politician, and you really forget, or at least 272 00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:18,120 Speaker 1: I forgot how gifted he was right, Like he was 273 00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:20,520 Speaker 1: able to sort of go in there in a way 274 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:24,640 Speaker 1: that most politicians can't. And I had to wonder, like 275 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:28,120 Speaker 1: if somebody else like that could come along and unify 276 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:31,320 Speaker 1: us again. Yeah, I mean we get them. We get 277 00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:33,400 Speaker 1: them every once in a generation. I worry we just 278 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:35,640 Speaker 1: had two of them. I mean Trump is a once 279 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:39,040 Speaker 1: in a generation politician, just in the opposite direction, right, 280 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:41,760 Speaker 1: And these problem is these things don't grow on trees. 281 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:43,880 Speaker 1: I mean, the only thing I would say is Trump 282 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:47,360 Speaker 1: is a charismatic entertainer. Like I say this as someone 283 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 1: who myself is can has been known to be a 284 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:53,520 Speaker 1: charismatic entertainer. I'm not sure that is a once in 285 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:58,280 Speaker 1: a lifetime thing. I mean, I think Republicans were savvy. 286 00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:00,920 Speaker 1: I don't want to say smart sa v in picking 287 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:04,080 Speaker 1: up a charismatic celebrity as their candidate. He was a 288 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:06,640 Speaker 1: charismatic celebrity. I mean he could have been replaced by 289 00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 1: another less nefarious charismatic celebrity. So I just wonder how 290 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:15,040 Speaker 1: I mean, look at Ted Cruise. Ted Cruiz is trying 291 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:17,640 Speaker 1: to be Donald Trump now, but it won't work because 292 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:20,800 Speaker 1: he's Ted Cruz and not even Heidi likes Ted Cruz. 293 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:24,200 Speaker 1: But I do think, like I'm not sure that being 294 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:29,120 Speaker 1: charismatic and famous together makes you once in a lifetime. Maybe. Frankly, 295 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:32,080 Speaker 1: I think Rhonda Santis is also Ted Cruz right exactly, 296 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:34,920 Speaker 1: And that's why I've come around the idea. This is 297 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 1: not my original thought, but the Carry Lake is actually 298 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:39,040 Speaker 1: the air to Trump is um would be somebody like 299 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:42,920 Speaker 1: Carrie or Tucker and not somebody like Rhonda Santis or 300 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:45,840 Speaker 1: Nikki Haley. Yeah, no, for sure. I mean I think 301 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:49,640 Speaker 1: Carry Lake is really charismatic and she has that kind 302 00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:52,880 Speaker 1: of charisma. JVL, will you please come back literally any 303 00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:55,040 Speaker 1: time you want. This is the only way I get 304 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:58,680 Speaker 1: to spend time with Oh, thank you, We'll have me 305 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:09,720 Speaker 1: out a bulwork there anytime you want. Angelo. Kira Sony 306 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 1: is the CEO of Media Matters. Welcome to Fast Politics. Angelo, 307 00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:17,840 Speaker 1: Thanks for having me. We wanted to have you because 308 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:22,080 Speaker 1: you're amazing and you're the editor of Media Matters, but 309 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:28,240 Speaker 1: also because we're in this really important inflection point in 310 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 1: the ownage. That's a special word I just made up 311 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:36,640 Speaker 1: of Twitter, who owned now Twitter? And what the funk 312 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:39,760 Speaker 1: is going on? Oh boy, well, Elon muscoes it now, 313 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:42,360 Speaker 1: which is really just to use sort of a thing 314 00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:44,240 Speaker 1: that Tucker said a lot about Joe Biden, but he's 315 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:46,240 Speaker 1: basically at this point just a hologram for sort of 316 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:48,600 Speaker 1: red pill right wing ideology. I mean, he really is 317 00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:51,320 Speaker 1: just affect similiar of it that is depressing and a bummer, 318 00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:55,080 Speaker 1: and he's erratic and obviously has an agenda, and one 319 00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:58,760 Speaker 1: of those agendas is basically eliminating a lot of Twitter's 320 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 1: brand safety, communities, safeguards, moderation policies. So we're in a 321 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:04,520 Speaker 1: little bit of a of a of a scrum here. 322 00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:06,760 Speaker 1: But I'm not as down about this as I am 323 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:09,639 Speaker 1: about most other things, to be honest, so good I 324 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:12,800 Speaker 1: want to put that at the top because I'm yeah, 325 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:15,280 Speaker 1: I love to hear you're not as down about this 326 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:17,720 Speaker 1: as other things. To explain why I mean we should 327 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:19,879 Speaker 1: be down about like, I don't want to diminish the threat. 328 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:23,359 Speaker 1: I think that this is significant in terms of the potential, 329 00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:26,879 Speaker 1: the potential for this to be extremely destructive and to 330 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:30,399 Speaker 1: have a profound impact on people, but also the larger 331 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:33,679 Speaker 1: information landscape. And I think the consequences are significant, but 332 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:37,680 Speaker 1: they haven't materialized yet because we we still have time. 333 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:39,680 Speaker 1: And that's why I say I was down about it, 334 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:41,920 Speaker 1: is that the bottom line is that people always talk 335 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:44,760 Speaker 1: about Elon must like as if he's sitting like Scrooge 336 00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:47,679 Speaker 1: McDuck with like a pot two billion dollars on cash 337 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:50,720 Speaker 1: on hand, and that's actually not true. When he originally 338 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:53,119 Speaker 1: put the deal together for Twitter back in the spring, 339 00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:56,480 Speaker 1: he had to put up forty of his TESTA stock 340 00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:59,440 Speaker 1: as collateral for the loan. He already has fifty percent 341 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:01,760 Speaker 1: of his test of stock put up as collateral for 342 00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:05,159 Speaker 1: other loans, so he doesn't actually have it's so crazy 343 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:06,680 Speaker 1: to say this, but it doesn't have that much cash. 344 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:08,280 Speaker 1: Like he has obviously super rich and he's got a 345 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:11,360 Speaker 1: lot of value, but he this is all borrowed money. Now, 346 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:13,840 Speaker 1: he got a bunch of investors, and that's a piece 347 00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:15,680 Speaker 1: of it. Presumably they want some of their money back. 348 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:18,280 Speaker 1: The bottom line here is that he doesn't have as 349 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:20,679 Speaker 1: much debt as he did back in May, but he 350 00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:23,160 Speaker 1: still has a lot of debt. And so if he's 351 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:27,520 Speaker 1: happy to incinerate hundreds of millions of dollars in operating 352 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:31,399 Speaker 1: costs every single year to own the libs, fine, But 353 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:33,040 Speaker 1: at some point he will run out of borrowed money 354 00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:34,480 Speaker 1: to do that, and he will have to pay this 355 00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:36,919 Speaker 1: money back. This is like money he has borrowed. So 356 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:38,959 Speaker 1: banks have to like want their money back, and they 357 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:41,960 Speaker 1: will definitely. They're not like other maybe ideological investors. They 358 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:44,000 Speaker 1: want their cash back. So I guess the point is 359 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:46,240 Speaker 1: that there's a real pressure point here. He hasn't insulated 360 00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:50,320 Speaker 1: himself yet from being immune to most pressure points, like 361 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:52,920 Speaker 1: say Fox News has or talk radio. So that's why 362 00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:55,840 Speaker 1: I'm not as down yet, is because I actually think 363 00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:59,639 Speaker 1: there's a real window to prevent and mitigate some of 364 00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:04,399 Speaker 1: the worst arms. So interesting and so important. Let's just 365 00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:07,679 Speaker 1: I want to psychle back to Fox News here, because 366 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:11,880 Speaker 1: you said that Fox News is insulated from that. Can 367 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:15,480 Speaker 1: you explain a little bit of what you mean, Yeah, 368 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:17,360 Speaker 1: I mean one of the things that happened shortly after 369 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:20,400 Speaker 1: Glen Beck got fired started a little bit bit before them, 370 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:22,840 Speaker 1: but they really went into overdrive at that point. Basically, 371 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:25,800 Speaker 1: Roger Rails and Murdoch decided that they don't want to 372 00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:29,040 Speaker 1: be beholden to advertiser. That the idea that advertisers could 373 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:31,560 Speaker 1: come in and sort of put limits onto what they 374 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:34,240 Speaker 1: can and cannot do was not great. Because Fox News 375 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:36,040 Speaker 1: has an ideological agenda, right, so they want to make 376 00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:38,080 Speaker 1: a bunch of money. They need to, but they also 377 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:40,959 Speaker 1: have an objective. So what they decided to do is that, well, 378 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:43,159 Speaker 1: let's figure out a way to guarantee our income. And 379 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:47,080 Speaker 1: so they started to leverage their cable subscriptions right the 380 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:49,879 Speaker 1: carriage phase. That's it. And so Fox is the second 381 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:53,840 Speaker 1: most expensive channel and everybody's cable bill. It is incredibly overpriced, 382 00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:57,280 Speaker 1: just like one American News was overpriced. Cable companies were 383 00:19:57,280 --> 00:19:59,639 Speaker 1: paying them twelve cents a subscriber, which is probably like 384 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:02,560 Speaker 1: six times what they're actually worth. Fox News basically is 385 00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:05,080 Speaker 1: like maybe more than two and a half times over price. 386 00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:07,560 Speaker 1: They should probably be about a dollar or subscriber and 387 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:09,879 Speaker 1: that's very generous. They're about two fifty right now, and 388 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:12,439 Speaker 1: they're going up to three dollars. What that means is 389 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:15,520 Speaker 1: that Fox News is the only TV channel, one of 390 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:16,840 Speaker 1: the only I think it's the only one that can 391 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:19,800 Speaker 1: actually have zero commercials and still be profitable. And in fact, 392 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:23,280 Speaker 1: just to illustrate this, Fox News could have zero advertisers, 393 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:26,480 Speaker 1: zero and they would still have a nine percent profit margin. 394 00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:29,760 Speaker 1: That's how much they rely on these cable carriage fees. 395 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:32,640 Speaker 1: And it's a lot harder to interfere with those because 396 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:35,800 Speaker 1: they have a pretty refined operation. And so but yeah, 397 00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:37,720 Speaker 1: that's what they did. They sort of made them they 398 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:40,399 Speaker 1: gave themselves guaranteed income. And if you notice, Musk was 399 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:42,480 Speaker 1: sort of toying with this. I don't know how reliable 400 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:44,119 Speaker 1: the reporting is, but like some of it was floating 401 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:45,800 Speaker 1: out about how he's going to make all the blue 402 00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:48,199 Speaker 1: checks pay in twenty bucks a month, right, And the 403 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:50,200 Speaker 1: first thing I thought, I was like, gosh, there he goes. 404 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:53,080 Speaker 1: He's trying to do what Fox did with cable carriers 405 00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:55,159 Speaker 1: and to make sure that they get that guaranteed income 406 00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:58,760 Speaker 1: so that he's not stuck relying on creating a product 407 00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:01,199 Speaker 1: that's commercially viable. It's kind of amazing that all these 408 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:05,040 Speaker 1: capitalists really suddenly hate the market once the market begins 409 00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:06,760 Speaker 1: to say that you can't be sort of a little 410 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:08,919 Speaker 1: bit of a Nazi. I want to get back for 411 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:12,240 Speaker 1: a second, because I think this is super interesting. When 412 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:15,920 Speaker 1: cable dies, that will ultimately kill Fox News though, right, 413 00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:18,200 Speaker 1: this is going to depress you, and I'm so sorry 414 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:21,080 Speaker 1: to tell you this. Fox is basically the only cable 415 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:25,159 Speaker 1: company channel news channel that is actually thinking about the future. 416 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 1: And so if you notice, Tucker Carlson does a lot 417 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:32,280 Speaker 1: of documentaries and stuff for Fox Nation. Fox Nation is 418 00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:35,119 Speaker 1: sort of it's a direct streaming service that you pay 419 00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:37,520 Speaker 1: money for Fox per month. They're not meaning their full 420 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:41,399 Speaker 1: benchmarks on subscribers yet, but they're expanding out. So, for example, 421 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:44,639 Speaker 1: there's a lot of Christian nationalism content on Fox Nation. 422 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:48,680 Speaker 1: There's a lot of really intense stuff there. And part 423 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:50,959 Speaker 1: of why it's I mentioned Tucker is that he's the 424 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:53,320 Speaker 1: only Fox host who has really been able to demonstrate 425 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:56,320 Speaker 1: high conversion rates. So his people signed up. They give 426 00:21:56,359 --> 00:21:58,720 Speaker 1: away subscriptions to anyone in the military for a year. 427 00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:01,359 Speaker 1: So in a weird way, Fox Nation is kind of 428 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:05,119 Speaker 1: like Jesus. They give away subscription to people in the military, 429 00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:08,840 Speaker 1: I mean Jesus, uh huh. And so they're kind of 430 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:10,399 Speaker 1: like porn sites in a way, where like if you 431 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:12,080 Speaker 1: sign up and you get like a free trial and 432 00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:13,560 Speaker 1: then like you kind of forget about it, and then 433 00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:16,040 Speaker 1: they still charge you per month. Part of their strategy is, 434 00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:18,040 Speaker 1: like you give away these free subscriptions, a bunch of 435 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:19,879 Speaker 1: people will just like forget that they have like this 436 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:21,800 Speaker 1: five dollar a month bill on their card after the 437 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:25,320 Speaker 1: free subscrip subscription expires and maybe they'll cancel. But yeah, Fox, 438 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:27,399 Speaker 1: My point is Fox is really the only one thinking 439 00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:30,240 Speaker 1: about the future, and that's actually kind of scary because 440 00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:32,920 Speaker 1: the way they're doing it is their long term five 441 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:35,360 Speaker 1: plus years. Their plan is to really convert as many 442 00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:38,520 Speaker 1: people between now and then to their streaming service, and 443 00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:41,040 Speaker 1: the way that they're doing that is two ways. One, 444 00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:44,280 Speaker 1: they're going really intense in in this latest round of 445 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:46,720 Speaker 1: cable negotiations, so they're trying to get a seventies cents 446 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:50,480 Speaker 1: subscription increase, which is like that is unheard of. Nothing 447 00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:52,880 Speaker 1: has ever been close to that ever. I mean, it's 448 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:55,400 Speaker 1: just incredible. And so that's to basically grab as much 449 00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:58,240 Speaker 1: cash as they can in this last round of negotiations, 450 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:00,760 Speaker 1: to your point, and then in terms of content, if 451 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:03,239 Speaker 1: you notice, Fox is kind of getting more intense, And 452 00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 1: part of the reason they're getting more intense is not 453 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:07,680 Speaker 1: just because they reflect they are reflecting the reality of 454 00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:09,720 Speaker 1: the landscape, but it's that those are the people that 455 00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:13,040 Speaker 1: sign up. And so Fox is going to burn brighter 456 00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:15,920 Speaker 1: and hotter over the next two years because they need 457 00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:18,680 Speaker 1: to in order to get conversions. And if you notice, 458 00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:21,840 Speaker 1: see an n plus got busted and they're gone, and 459 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:24,240 Speaker 1: I think they're vulnerable down the road, and obviously MSNBC 460 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:26,479 Speaker 1: is not really thinking about that at all in a 461 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:29,680 Speaker 1: meaningful way. And so to answer your question shortly, yeah, 462 00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:31,800 Speaker 1: Fox is the only one that's kind of preparing for 463 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:37,480 Speaker 1: that cliff that you referenced. Oh Jesus fucking Christ. You know, 464 00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:39,159 Speaker 1: every time I come on the show, I always tell 465 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:41,000 Speaker 1: you stuff that it's like this is bad and it's 466 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:43,439 Speaker 1: gonna get worse. I feel like I'm like this like 467 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:47,440 Speaker 1: sad loan optimists, and I'm not even that optimistic. But 468 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:49,639 Speaker 1: one of the things that I think Mania Matters has 469 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:53,479 Speaker 1: done really, really well is that they've like held Fox 470 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:58,720 Speaker 1: accountable like it used to be if Tucker or Laura 471 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:02,920 Speaker 1: said something insane, the only there people would now. But 472 00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:07,160 Speaker 1: now because of this sort of chronicling of Fox, people 473 00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:09,840 Speaker 1: on the left and the right now, I mean, don't 474 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:12,480 Speaker 1: you think that's sort of amazing? Is And I would 475 00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:14,760 Speaker 1: say to me, the biggest thing, obviously it's happen. The 476 00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:16,800 Speaker 1: shadow was sticking it to some of them. I would say. 477 00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:19,040 Speaker 1: The other thing too, that was worse is the Fox cycle. 478 00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:20,800 Speaker 1: Box used to pick up a story and then they 479 00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:22,800 Speaker 1: would pluck it out of nowhere. Then they would hammered 480 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:25,320 Speaker 1: away for days. Then they would start to attack other 481 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:28,239 Speaker 1: news media for not covering that story, and then of 482 00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:30,600 Speaker 1: course the rest of the news media would begin to 483 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:33,800 Speaker 1: cover this controversy or this story. And it was so predictable, 484 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:35,560 Speaker 1: was the Fox cycle. What happened over and over and 485 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:37,760 Speaker 1: over again. And it sounds so weird now to think 486 00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:39,520 Speaker 1: about it, to your point, because there's been so much 487 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:41,920 Speaker 1: exposure of it, But a decade ago when I first 488 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:44,679 Speaker 1: started there, and that was such a routine thing. And 489 00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:47,639 Speaker 1: to point out that like other news channels, other newspapers 490 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:50,840 Speaker 1: were beginning to cover something that Fox had manufactured in 491 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:53,440 Speaker 1: hight was like people like, that's not true, that's weird. 492 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:54,840 Speaker 1: You know, that's not that big a deal. And we 493 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:56,919 Speaker 1: had to really make the point to show over and 494 00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:59,480 Speaker 1: over and over again how much of the rest of 495 00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:02,040 Speaker 1: the news me it was sort of allowing Fox to 496 00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:05,320 Speaker 1: browbeat them into covering their nonsense and breaking that Fox 497 00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:07,879 Speaker 1: cycle happens in part, but in large part because of 498 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:09,600 Speaker 1: the exposure that you talked about, and sort of just 499 00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:12,800 Speaker 1: that grinding every day and sort of illustrating the harms 500 00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:15,240 Speaker 1: and the impact. And I do think, I do think 501 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:17,680 Speaker 1: it matters. And they really hate us, which is nice. 502 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:20,520 Speaker 1: They just hate us, and I appreciate that to an 503 00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:23,120 Speaker 1: extent because it's a weird thing. But there it's one 504 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:26,040 Speaker 1: of the few things that the right wing actually fears 505 00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:29,360 Speaker 1: is when we go after them, and that's because we're 506 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:32,159 Speaker 1: really just holding up a mirror. But for some reason 507 00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:34,480 Speaker 1: it tends to really really get them going. So I 508 00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:36,720 Speaker 1: appreciate you saying that, because day to day the work 509 00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:38,439 Speaker 1: kind of gets a little feels like it kind of 510 00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:40,640 Speaker 1: stuck in looks and sometimes I don't know, it just 511 00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:45,320 Speaker 1: feels like it's very ground, feels everything feels very grand. 512 00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:47,760 Speaker 1: What do you think happens now with Allen. I mean, 513 00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:50,120 Speaker 1: where does he go from here? I think the next 514 00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:53,840 Speaker 1: two weeks are really important. And here's why. So right now, 515 00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:57,440 Speaker 1: advertisers can actually make a difference. They really can. This 516 00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:00,720 Speaker 1: is like because Twitter is unlike any other medium, on Facebook, 517 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:04,160 Speaker 1: on even Fox News Talk radio. They rely and most 518 00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:07,120 Speaker 1: of their money actually comes from like these direct response advertisers, 519 00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:09,560 Speaker 1: which is like call this number, click this link, by 520 00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:12,560 Speaker 1: this product, by this pill, by this ear cleaner, whould 521 00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:14,480 Speaker 1: think is one of the grossest commercials, But yeah, that's 522 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:16,439 Speaker 1: how they make the money. Twitter doesn't do that. Twitter 523 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:21,320 Speaker 1: actually relies almost entirely on really big brands Coca Cola, HBO, Apple, 524 00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:24,280 Speaker 1: And what that means is that there's not a there's 525 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:27,160 Speaker 1: not a fallback for them. They can't dismiss the concerns 526 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:30,760 Speaker 1: of these big brand advertisers. And big brand advertisers don't 527 00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:33,159 Speaker 1: need Twitter. Actually, they don't need Twitter to sell a 528 00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:36,439 Speaker 1: product or to get attention. It really is not an 529 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:38,880 Speaker 1: important part of their at budgets. So why I say 530 00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:41,240 Speaker 1: the next two weeks matters is this if a couple 531 00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:44,119 Speaker 1: of these really big advertisers come out and say, hey, 532 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:46,600 Speaker 1: if you roll back a bunch of these communities safeguards. 533 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:49,159 Speaker 1: If you roll back these policies, if you've got the 534 00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:51,320 Speaker 1: content moderation team, if you kind of turn it into 535 00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:53,280 Speaker 1: the right wing hellscape that you're saying you're going to do, 536 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:56,480 Speaker 1: we're out. Musk can't service his debt for that long 537 00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:59,320 Speaker 1: if that happens, and the banks are going to be 538 00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:02,520 Speaker 1: pretty pissed you if they have the prospect of him 539 00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:05,040 Speaker 1: defaulting on their debts. So like, the thing is is 540 00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:07,480 Speaker 1: that he does have some limit here. He does need revenue, 541 00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:11,240 Speaker 1: and that's important to consider. So I think that that's 542 00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:13,760 Speaker 1: to me why I say the next two week matters. 543 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:16,800 Speaker 1: I know that Musk is aggressively trying to convince these 544 00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 1: advertisers that he's not going to turn the place into 545 00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:23,520 Speaker 1: a horrible landscape. They're a little bit of fear of 546 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:25,680 Speaker 1: right wing blowback for anyone coming out against it. I 547 00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:27,400 Speaker 1: would say I've talked to a bunch of them so far. 548 00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:29,679 Speaker 1: I think it's a matter of days before some come 549 00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:32,480 Speaker 1: out publicly. Just this morning, I p G, which is 550 00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:35,160 Speaker 1: one of the four largest media buyers, and the major 551 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:37,320 Speaker 1: clients like Ams and others. I mean, they really represent 552 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:39,800 Speaker 1: big companies. They gave an advisory to all their clients 553 00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:41,560 Speaker 1: to tell them to pause their ads on Twitter just 554 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:44,160 Speaker 1: to wait and see sort of approach, like the community 555 00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:47,040 Speaker 1: gets the idea that this is a problem, and this 556 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:49,520 Speaker 1: started back in May, like this advertiser education. I don't 557 00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:50,880 Speaker 1: want to just say it popped up over and nowhere, 558 00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:52,760 Speaker 1: like this is why I think the advocacy matters and 559 00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:55,360 Speaker 1: what people do matters. Like we talked about this back 560 00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:56,719 Speaker 1: in May. We were doing this work back in May, 561 00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:58,560 Speaker 1: a lot of other groups were. It really did make 562 00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:02,119 Speaker 1: a difference in sort of laying groundwork for advertisers and 563 00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:04,520 Speaker 1: big companies to think about it. So it just depends 564 00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:06,880 Speaker 1: if he's able to convince these big companies to hold 565 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:09,639 Speaker 1: their powder over the next two weeks, then he'll be 566 00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:11,800 Speaker 1: able to make a bunch of changes to the platform 567 00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:14,040 Speaker 1: and just kind of hope he can sneak by and 568 00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:16,160 Speaker 1: muddy the waters to make it seem like it's political, 569 00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:18,280 Speaker 1: Like if this stuff happens after the election, they can 570 00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:20,840 Speaker 1: frame it as like a partisan blowback, and companies do 571 00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:22,760 Speaker 1: not ever want to be seen as partisan, at least 572 00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:24,760 Speaker 1: the big ones, so they will actually wait, they'll be 573 00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:27,679 Speaker 1: like Robert Mueller, They'll hold on. Oh, I don't want 574 00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:30,160 Speaker 1: to see in parts like they will, like Hedge hero 575 00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:34,680 Speaker 1: of the Resistance, Robert Muller, exactly what they're gonna They're 576 00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:36,679 Speaker 1: gonna just hold off and say oh and then by 577 00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:38,880 Speaker 1: steen we're talking six months, eight months, and before long, 578 00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:40,840 Speaker 1: these things have a short shelf life. Everybody forgets there's 579 00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:43,160 Speaker 1: a new normal. So the next two weeks matter. So 580 00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:45,360 Speaker 1: what do I think happens. I think there's a window 581 00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:47,440 Speaker 1: that we can win. I was thinking about this because, 582 00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:50,040 Speaker 1: like I don't know, if you know, I was involved 583 00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:54,920 Speaker 1: in that craziness when elon Hillary tweeted that story from 584 00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:58,520 Speaker 1: the l A Times, and then Ellen immediately posted this 585 00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:00,640 Speaker 1: like there might be more to this story, with a 586 00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:05,200 Speaker 1: link to the Santa Monica Observer, known for his work 587 00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:09,560 Speaker 1: with the Hillary Gotton body double story. She deleted that tweet, 588 00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:13,040 Speaker 1: which I think is meaningful because the pressure is significant. 589 00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:15,360 Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying. And again, I'm not an optimist. 590 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:17,440 Speaker 1: I'm not trying to be like, I'm not gonna pretend 591 00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:19,560 Speaker 1: that this is gonna be a cake walk or perfect. 592 00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:22,000 Speaker 1: But You're right, there are folk worms in life, and 593 00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:24,240 Speaker 1: this is a folk worm. And that is an illustration 594 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:26,400 Speaker 1: of the folk ram, which is that he was willing 595 00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:29,320 Speaker 1: to take that even though his impulse has instincts he 596 00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:30,840 Speaker 1: is a creature of the sort of the right wing 597 00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:33,640 Speaker 1: fever swamps. He's talked about this on Twitter. It's very 598 00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:36,239 Speaker 1: clear and what he produces there are limits, though, and 599 00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:39,360 Speaker 1: the blowback on that was so significant that he realized 600 00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:42,000 Speaker 1: he couldn't sustain it. Obviously didn't comment on it whatever, 601 00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:44,400 Speaker 1: but people noticed. People saw that he took it down, 602 00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:47,400 Speaker 1: and he understood that was going to alienate parts of 603 00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:49,640 Speaker 1: his audience and that he is building a power based 604 00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:51,240 Speaker 1: on the right, and the right is a bit of 605 00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:53,440 Speaker 1: a volatile place, like you sort of have to be 606 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:57,360 Speaker 1: pretty consistent in order to keep that engagement. And I 607 00:29:57,400 --> 00:29:59,520 Speaker 1: agree with you. I think it is significant and it 608 00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:02,120 Speaker 1: does know that there is a real pressure point here. 609 00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:05,640 Speaker 1: It doesn't require hysterics or historyonics. It just requires a 610 00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:07,960 Speaker 1: corporation to act in their best interests with a little 611 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:11,120 Speaker 1: bit of nudging from consumers to show that there's brand harm. 612 00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:13,280 Speaker 1: And yeah, I'm not, like I said, I'm not. I 613 00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:15,280 Speaker 1: think this is a winnable fight. I really do. I 614 00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:17,200 Speaker 1: think Twitter will still kind of suck. I actually think 615 00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:19,280 Speaker 1: in three months from now, if we're successful and this 616 00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:21,720 Speaker 1: is successful. The most annoying part about all of this, 617 00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:23,360 Speaker 1: it will just be annoying. People are going to pay 618 00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:25,160 Speaker 1: so much attention to the stuff he says and does, 619 00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:27,920 Speaker 1: and hopefully that goes away like that is really one 620 00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:29,920 Speaker 1: of the most awful byproducts of this is that he 621 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:32,000 Speaker 1: can super charge things. And but if that's what we 622 00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:34,040 Speaker 1: have to deal with, is just another nuisance. But for 623 00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:35,920 Speaker 1: the most part, we don't have to deal with like 624 00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:40,640 Speaker 1: a hardcore radicalization engine that he's turned Twitter into. I 625 00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:42,760 Speaker 1: could deal with that. I think we could probably get there. 626 00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:45,480 Speaker 1: I just think that it's really about what happens over 627 00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:48,360 Speaker 1: truly the next two weeks after that the deal is done, 628 00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:51,600 Speaker 1: it's locked, it's set, and so that's what I got. 629 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:54,200 Speaker 1: Stay tuned, and hopefully it won't be super depressing in 630 00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:56,280 Speaker 1: two weeks and we'll just be irritated by Elon Musk. 631 00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:01,360 Speaker 1: But if not, I don't know. I kind of like 632 00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:03,920 Speaker 1: Twitter too, so I do use it as an outlet, 633 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:05,680 Speaker 1: like it's been a part of my day to day 634 00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:08,280 Speaker 1: and I really also personally would not like to lose 635 00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:10,560 Speaker 1: that because I saw this tweet about how like somebody 636 00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:13,120 Speaker 1: said something like they're not attractive enough for Instagram or 637 00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:15,040 Speaker 1: like cool enough for TikTok, and that's I was like, 638 00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:21,520 Speaker 1: oh god, that's exactly how I feel. I can't do 639 00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:26,280 Speaker 1: something else. Well, there's still time. Thank you so much. 640 00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:32,960 Speaker 1: This is so interesting. Josh Call is the Attorney General 641 00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:37,720 Speaker 1: of the state of Wisconsin. Welcome to Vast Politics. Josh Call, 642 00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:39,880 Speaker 1: Thanks for having for me. We're very excited to have 643 00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:45,680 Speaker 1: you. You You are the Wisconsin Attorney General running for re election. 644 00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:49,760 Speaker 1: You've been attorney general since two thousand nineteen, which is 645 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:54,560 Speaker 1: like a century in whatever this is terms. Talk to 646 00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:58,360 Speaker 1: me about what your race looks like and what is 647 00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:01,480 Speaker 1: happening in Wisconsin right now. Yeah. Well, first, you're you're 648 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:03,880 Speaker 1: right that a lot has happened in the last four years. 649 00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:08,160 Speaker 1: You know, we had unprecedented Republican obstructionism here even before 650 00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:11,240 Speaker 1: the governor and I took office. Republicans met in a 651 00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:13,920 Speaker 1: lame duck session to take authority away from our offices. 652 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:17,000 Speaker 1: We had an attempt to overturn the presidential election after 653 00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:19,880 Speaker 1: and then, of course we've been dealing with this once 654 00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:22,360 Speaker 1: in a century pandemic. Despite that, I'm proud to be 655 00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:24,160 Speaker 1: able to say that on issue after issue that we 656 00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:26,480 Speaker 1: talked about when I ran for office four years ago. 657 00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:29,240 Speaker 1: We have delivered for Wisconsin. Night's now I'm up for 658 00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:32,760 Speaker 1: re election. I won my point six five percentage points 659 00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:36,120 Speaker 1: in eighteen and in Wisconsin we have a lot of 660 00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:39,360 Speaker 1: really close races. Four of our last six presidentials were 661 00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:42,600 Speaker 1: decided by less than one percentage point, and we expect 662 00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:44,480 Speaker 1: to have another close race again this year. There are 663 00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:47,760 Speaker 1: enormous differences on the issues between my Republican opponent and me, 664 00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:50,120 Speaker 1: and we expect the race to be close. We're gonna 665 00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:52,480 Speaker 1: keep working hard and I'm confident, but like I said, 666 00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:55,680 Speaker 1: it's going to be close. The professional name for your 667 00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:59,440 Speaker 1: opponent is whack of do Can you explain to us 668 00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:02,920 Speaker 1: some of his positions? We have some really big differences 669 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:06,240 Speaker 1: of some critical issues. Now, let me start with public safety. 670 00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:09,320 Speaker 1: I believe that we should be investing in our communities, 671 00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:11,920 Speaker 1: investing in programs that can make our communities safer, and 672 00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:17,080 Speaker 1: that includes local law enforcement and community policing, mental health programs, 673 00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:21,760 Speaker 1: drug treatment programs, violence prevention programs, mental health programs. I 674 00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:24,240 Speaker 1: also think we need some common sense gun safety measures. 675 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:27,120 Speaker 1: We don't have universal background checks in Wisconsin, for example. 676 00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:30,320 Speaker 1: My opponent has no plan for funding public safety. He's 677 00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:34,280 Speaker 1: also not supported any common sense gun safety measures. What 678 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:37,400 Speaker 1: he does have a plan for is empowering d a's 679 00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:41,360 Speaker 1: to prosecute abortion cases in neighboring counties. We have a 680 00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:43,960 Speaker 1: ban on the books in Wisconsin that goes back to 681 00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:47,720 Speaker 1: eighteen forty nine, and there's no exceptions under that ban 682 00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:50,719 Speaker 1: for cases involving rape or incest, or even to protect 683 00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:53,920 Speaker 1: the health of the mother unless it's necessary to save 684 00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:56,280 Speaker 1: the life of the mother. And so we've already started 685 00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:59,480 Speaker 1: to have some really terrible consequences from that. One woman 686 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:03,680 Speaker 1: had a partial miscarriage and because the doctor didn't believe 687 00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:06,040 Speaker 1: that her life was at risk, was not able to 688 00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:09,439 Speaker 1: intervene for ten days until she finally got the health 689 00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:12,319 Speaker 1: care that she needed. My opponent apparently doesn't think that 690 00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:14,160 Speaker 1: the current state of the law goes far enough, and 691 00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:17,520 Speaker 1: so he wants to empower das to become roving abortion 692 00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:20,600 Speaker 1: ban enforcers in our state. How would that work, Well, 693 00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:24,359 Speaker 1: it's not clear. There's no other type of case he's 694 00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:27,560 Speaker 1: proposed this for. It's just for abortion cases. But it 695 00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:30,200 Speaker 1: would mean that a d A could take information from 696 00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:33,240 Speaker 1: a law enforcement officer and in a different county potentially 697 00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:36,760 Speaker 1: bring a prosecution, which this law already is a waste 698 00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:39,200 Speaker 1: of resources if people are enforcing it. I've been clear 699 00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:42,040 Speaker 1: that we're not going to shift our resources from investigating 700 00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:44,719 Speaker 1: and prosecating the most serious crimes in the state, which 701 00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:47,920 Speaker 1: is what we do, to shift them to abortion cases. 702 00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:50,520 Speaker 1: But my opponent wants not only to do with that himself, 703 00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:53,359 Speaker 1: but he wants to give d As this power. And 704 00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:55,840 Speaker 1: I am leading the fight in court in Wisconsin to 705 00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:59,160 Speaker 1: block enforcement of that nineteenth century ban. There's a pending 706 00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:01,440 Speaker 1: case right now. My opponent has been clear that he 707 00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:05,399 Speaker 1: would end that lawsuit. So the stakes on reproductive freedom 708 00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:08,600 Speaker 1: in our race are are enormous. Yes, it sounds like it. 709 00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:12,440 Speaker 1: We had actually the head of the Democratic Party of Wisconsin. 710 00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:16,040 Speaker 1: He said that the racism Wisconsin are very very tight 711 00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:18,960 Speaker 1: always that's right. Yeah, Like I said, I wanted my 712 00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:21,880 Speaker 1: point six five percentage points last time, and we expect 713 00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:25,080 Speaker 1: this one to be close again. The Wisconsin Freedom p 714 00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:30,040 Speaker 1: a C an independent expenditure committee right with an affiliation. 715 00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:33,320 Speaker 1: By the way, the Republican Attorneys Generals, they have really 716 00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:37,239 Speaker 1: not covered themselves in glory since you know, they were 717 00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:42,680 Speaker 1: big into fighting for Trump. You know, well, after right, 718 00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:45,520 Speaker 1: that's exactly right to the people who are concerned about 719 00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:47,880 Speaker 1: the future of our democracy. You know, there are a 720 00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:50,279 Speaker 1: lot of important elections this year, but a g S 721 00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:54,760 Speaker 1: races in keith swing states, including mine, are absolutely critical. 722 00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:56,480 Speaker 1: And you know that because you can look at what 723 00:35:56,480 --> 00:36:00,960 Speaker 1: happened in there were a number of efforts by Donald 724 00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:03,440 Speaker 1: Trump and his allies to overturn the results of the election. 725 00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:06,640 Speaker 1: And I defended the results in my state. My colleagues 726 00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:08,840 Speaker 1: like Dana and Essel and Michigan defended the results in 727 00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:11,880 Speaker 1: her state, and we won. We want to cross the board. 728 00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:15,800 Speaker 1: And because of that, Joe Biden was sworn into office 729 00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:18,640 Speaker 1: because he was elected by the voters. But Ken Paxton, 730 00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:21,560 Speaker 1: the Republican ae G in Texas, by the suit trying 731 00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:24,400 Speaker 1: to throw out the results in several states, and a 732 00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:27,959 Speaker 1: majority of the Republican AEGs in the country supported that 733 00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:32,919 Speaker 1: that lawsuit. And you know, fortunately enough Republicans and key 734 00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:35,880 Speaker 1: roles did the right thing as well as Democrats and 735 00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:38,719 Speaker 1: key roles to protect the results of the election. But 736 00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:41,359 Speaker 1: those folks are being purged from the Republican Party. I mean, 737 00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:45,080 Speaker 1: take Liz Cheney as an example. And you know, my 738 00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:51,120 Speaker 1: my opponents supported the preposterous partisan biased post election investigation 739 00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:54,600 Speaker 1: in our state led by Michael Gabelman. He appeared with 740 00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:57,480 Speaker 1: him at a fundraiser recently. He also claimed that our 741 00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:00,720 Speaker 1: election commissioners broke the law and should be removed from office. 742 00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:03,200 Speaker 1: And you know, I mentioned before that we won all 743 00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:06,000 Speaker 1: the cases in but one of the cases in our 744 00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:09,279 Speaker 1: state Supreme Court was decided four to three. And if 745 00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:12,600 Speaker 1: we had had an a g who was falsely, you know, 746 00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:16,799 Speaker 1: embracing conspiracy theories, are falsely claiming that our election commissioners 747 00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:19,720 Speaker 1: broke the law, our results could have been thrown into chaos. 748 00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:23,640 Speaker 1: And it's critical for our democracy that we win these 749 00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:27,160 Speaker 1: key races, including my race, but also other critical races 750 00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:29,640 Speaker 1: around the country. Yeah, we had Dana Nssel in the 751 00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:32,520 Speaker 1: program to this AD though, I want to talk about 752 00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:37,120 Speaker 1: this independent Expenditure attack AD. So basically, your opponent is 753 00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:40,440 Speaker 1: working really hard to paint you, just like Ron and 754 00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:45,239 Speaker 1: On everyone's favorite conspiracy lunatic is working very hard to 755 00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:48,880 Speaker 1: paint Mandela Barnes. They're working hard to paint you as 756 00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:52,640 Speaker 1: soft on crime, right, And that was what this ad 757 00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:55,799 Speaker 1: that was sort of the stick of it, right, Yeah, 758 00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:58,480 Speaker 1: that's the gist. And and it's it's just preposterous. I mean, 759 00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:01,600 Speaker 1: I'm a former federal prosecut uter. I worked in Baltimore 760 00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:05,000 Speaker 1: where I prosecuted murders, gang members, and drug traffickers, and 761 00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:08,759 Speaker 1: the Department of Justice that I oversee investigates and prosecutes 762 00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:11,120 Speaker 1: some of the most serious crimes in our state. And 763 00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:14,960 Speaker 1: we've worked to get increased funding for for public safety 764 00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:17,920 Speaker 1: in Wisconsin. Not now. The ad that's out there is 765 00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:20,880 Speaker 1: just filled with untruths um Just as one example, it 766 00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:24,040 Speaker 1: talks about funding for our crime labs, which throughout my 767 00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:26,799 Speaker 1: time in office, I've fought to get more resources for. 768 00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:29,600 Speaker 1: We have gotten more resources for, not as much as 769 00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:32,800 Speaker 1: I've requested, but some more resources. And yet it claims 770 00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:35,080 Speaker 1: that we've cut funding, which is just false. The other 771 00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:38,040 Speaker 1: thing that's important to note about the Republican Ages Association 772 00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:40,640 Speaker 1: is that this is a special interest group and one 773 00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:44,200 Speaker 1: of the affiliates of THEIRS. Their see four arm encourage 774 00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:46,840 Speaker 1: people to go to outside the White House on the 775 00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:50,359 Speaker 1: day of the insurrection, but they're funded by groups that 776 00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:53,520 Speaker 1: want ages who go weak when it comes to protecting 777 00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:56,600 Speaker 1: our environment or when it comes to protecting consumers. These 778 00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:59,320 Speaker 1: are not folks who actually care about public safety and 779 00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:01,880 Speaker 1: Wisconsin are special interests that want to have an a 780 00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:05,120 Speaker 1: g who's going to respond to the concerns of special 781 00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:07,759 Speaker 1: interests rather than the best interests of our state, right 782 00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:12,840 Speaker 1: And I mean that is such an important point. Would 783 00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:16,359 Speaker 1: you just explain to us what Wisconsin looks like right now, 784 00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:18,480 Speaker 1: what you're seeing on the ground when you talk to people, 785 00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:22,839 Speaker 1: what I mean, like Democrats Republicans are hitting Democrats very 786 00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:26,719 Speaker 1: hard on this idea that they are somehow tougher on 787 00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:30,200 Speaker 1: crime that polls very well for them. Explained to us 788 00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:32,560 Speaker 1: why that's not really true. One of the things we've 789 00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:35,239 Speaker 1: been working to do is to get accurate information out 790 00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:37,480 Speaker 1: there that the truth of the matter is that we 791 00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:41,280 Speaker 1: have had our public safety and our communities in Wisconsin 792 00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:44,600 Speaker 1: underfunded for decades. And the reason that that has happened 793 00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:47,880 Speaker 1: is because we have a hyper gerrymandered legislature that has 794 00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:51,040 Speaker 1: been controlled by Republicans for more than a decade now 795 00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:55,319 Speaker 1: that has consistently denied the funding to our communities that 796 00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:58,279 Speaker 1: they need. And those local governments that they're denying funding to, 797 00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:01,160 Speaker 1: those are the that's the part government that funds local 798 00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:05,359 Speaker 1: law enforcement, that funds other critical local services. So we've 799 00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:09,160 Speaker 1: had decreasing revenue shared from our state to local governments 800 00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:12,360 Speaker 1: at the same time that costs have gone up. We 801 00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:14,440 Speaker 1: also have Republicans who have stood in the way of 802 00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:18,240 Speaker 1: some common sense gun safety measures. I've also proposed strengthening 803 00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:21,319 Speaker 1: our bail system, and Republicans and legislature have not really 804 00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:24,920 Speaker 1: taken any meaningful action on that. They've proposed a small change, 805 00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:26,560 Speaker 1: but nothing that is going to be the kind of 806 00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:29,880 Speaker 1: major strengthening of our system that we need. So partly 807 00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:32,239 Speaker 1: it's getting that message out, but in terms of what 808 00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:35,719 Speaker 1: we're seeing on the ground, people are energized across the 809 00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:38,359 Speaker 1: partisan spectrum. I expect that we're going to have very 810 00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:42,800 Speaker 1: very high turnout. We had extremely high turnout in Wisconsin 811 00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:44,840 Speaker 1: and I think we're going to see that again in 812 00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:48,279 Speaker 1: two And what we've seen from polls that have come 813 00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:51,879 Speaker 1: out is that the key is that we need people 814 00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:54,279 Speaker 1: to come out to vote when you there's a recent 815 00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:55,879 Speaker 1: poll that showed that if you look at people who 816 00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:58,719 Speaker 1: say they're definitely going to vote, Republicans are in a 817 00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:00,640 Speaker 1: better spot than if you can it are people who 818 00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:03,200 Speaker 1: say that they are likely to vote or might vote. 819 00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:05,800 Speaker 1: So we need to make sure that people know the stakes, 820 00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:08,480 Speaker 1: they come out to vote, because in Wisconsin, the question 821 00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:11,280 Speaker 1: is whether we keep the state moving forward or whether 822 00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:14,640 Speaker 1: we let politicians with far right extreme agendas move the 823 00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:18,000 Speaker 1: state backwards. The thing I think a lot about is like, so, 824 00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:24,000 Speaker 1: say you lose this Attorney General's seed in two Trump 825 00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:29,759 Speaker 1: could lose Wisconsin, but your opponent could just decide that 826 00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:33,440 Speaker 1: Trump won Wisconsin. I mean, right, you'll have enough power 827 00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:38,320 Speaker 1: to make a case to do stuff with the votes. 828 00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:42,840 Speaker 1: Is a correct or. If Republicans win the key racism Wisconsin, 829 00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:45,440 Speaker 1: like the a GS race the governor's race, it could 830 00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:49,440 Speaker 1: very well lead to chaos. You know, as I mentioned, 831 00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:52,080 Speaker 1: we won one of the cases by a four to 832 00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:54,600 Speaker 1: three vote. Now if if instead of having an a 833 00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:57,640 Speaker 1: G out there explaining that the results were free and 834 00:41:57,680 --> 00:42:00,160 Speaker 1: fair and they reflected the will of the voters, you 835 00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:02,200 Speaker 1: had an a G who was calling the results into 836 00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:06,120 Speaker 1: question or suggesting that laws had been broken in the process. 837 00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:08,920 Speaker 1: It's hard to say how the Supreme Court would come out, 838 00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:11,520 Speaker 1: but it certainly wouldn't help promote stability and the rule 839 00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:13,800 Speaker 1: of law. To have that, and and quite the opposite. 840 00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:16,200 Speaker 1: You also could have an a G taking different positions 841 00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:19,600 Speaker 1: on critical voting rights cases than the ones that I've taken. So, 842 00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:23,239 Speaker 1: you know, the election of Republicans in these key offices 843 00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:26,400 Speaker 1: would create a serious risk that the system could be 844 00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:29,840 Speaker 1: thrown into chaos. Four you know, and again I have 845 00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:34,000 Speaker 1: stood for our democracy. My opponent has stood with Michael Gabelman, 846 00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:38,279 Speaker 1: who ran this partisan, biased investigation into our elections. And 847 00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:41,600 Speaker 1: it's a clear difference in this race. Yeah, clearly tell 848 00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:45,399 Speaker 1: us what you need now, if people are listening, what 849 00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:47,520 Speaker 1: they can do to support you. The more that we 850 00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:50,040 Speaker 1: can get our message out across the state of Wisconsin, 851 00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:53,040 Speaker 1: the more successful we will be. You know, we're in 852 00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:54,920 Speaker 1: a little bit different position than a senate race or 853 00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:57,560 Speaker 1: a governor's race. Ags racist tend not to get quite 854 00:42:57,600 --> 00:42:59,480 Speaker 1: as much attention, and so we haven't had the kind 855 00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:02,480 Speaker 1: of saturation as media coverage or media buys like other 856 00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:04,640 Speaker 1: states have. But any way that people can help us 857 00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:07,560 Speaker 1: get our message out helps our campaign. If they want 858 00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:09,319 Speaker 1: to learn more about the campaign, they can go to 859 00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:12,760 Speaker 1: Josh call dot org. That's my website. So I encourage 860 00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:14,880 Speaker 1: people to get the word out as broadly as they 861 00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:16,680 Speaker 1: can and help us get the word out about the 862 00:43:16,719 --> 00:43:20,040 Speaker 1: stakes in this election. Races really are I mean, if 863 00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:23,160 Speaker 1: you look at Texas at Ken Paxton, you really see 864 00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:27,120 Speaker 1: that a G races are really very important. That's right. 865 00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:30,200 Speaker 1: They play a critical role, and special interests know that. 866 00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:33,040 Speaker 1: That's why the group you were mentioning, which is funded 867 00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:36,840 Speaker 1: by the Republican Ages Association, puts a lot of resources 868 00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:39,520 Speaker 1: into these races because they know how important they are. 869 00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:42,200 Speaker 1: But making sure that folks who want ages, who are 870 00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:45,279 Speaker 1: going to fight for our rights and our freedoms and 871 00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:47,239 Speaker 1: the best interests of the state, making sure that they 872 00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:49,520 Speaker 1: know how critical these races are, that can make all 873 00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:53,120 Speaker 1: the difference. Yeah, definitely, thank you so much, Josh, thanks 874 00:43:53,160 --> 00:44:02,240 Speaker 1: for having me. I appreciate it. Molly un Fast, Jesse Cannon, 875 00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:04,920 Speaker 1: did you notice like Trump's almost been a little out 876 00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:06,680 Speaker 1: of the news cycle because what we can talk about 877 00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:09,919 Speaker 1: is this fucking more on Ellen. I hesitate to call 878 00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:13,440 Speaker 1: Elan and more on. Okay, point take him, but I 879 00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:15,880 Speaker 1: do know that he has sucked up all the oxygen 880 00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:18,879 Speaker 1: and so likely he will be our president. It's either 881 00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:23,680 Speaker 1: gonna be him or Kanye because what happens when you 882 00:44:23,719 --> 00:44:26,439 Speaker 1: have a number of failures and you dominate the news 883 00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:29,360 Speaker 1: cycle is that you become president. That's what we've learned. 884 00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:31,960 Speaker 1: Oh great, I can't wait for Kanye to New Armenia 885 00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:35,400 Speaker 1: on his first day in office to avenge the Kardashians. Yeah, 886 00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:38,360 Speaker 1: because it seems kind of likely to be at this point. Anyway, 887 00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:41,239 Speaker 1: we're at the moment of funckery for those of you 888 00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:45,480 Speaker 1: who are paying attention, and we are at this moment. 889 00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:50,480 Speaker 1: So Ellen has bought Twitter, even despite the fact that 890 00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:54,560 Speaker 1: I told him he wasn't going to. And now he 891 00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:57,920 Speaker 1: is trying to figure out how to service the forty 892 00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:01,239 Speaker 1: four billion dollars in I mean, not all of it 893 00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:03,279 Speaker 1: is in debt, but there's certainly a fair amount of debt. 894 00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:07,359 Speaker 1: And so he is shopping the idea of figuring out 895 00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:10,680 Speaker 1: ways to monetize this company, which has never been particularly 896 00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:13,600 Speaker 1: good at monetizing. And one of the ideas he's shopping 897 00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:17,799 Speaker 1: here is making people pay for Twitter. And either he's 898 00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:21,040 Speaker 1: going to make people this is like my favorite Ellen idea. 899 00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:23,440 Speaker 1: It's either going to be eight dollars a month or 900 00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:26,919 Speaker 1: it's going to be twenty dollars months, right, because those 901 00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:30,279 Speaker 1: numbers are about the same. And instead of like the 902 00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:35,239 Speaker 1: sort of obvious sit down with your people and and 903 00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:39,560 Speaker 1: figure this all out, instead he's just been like tweeting 904 00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:43,480 Speaker 1: through it as one does. So he had a Twitter 905 00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:48,719 Speaker 1: exchange with the author, Stephen King, who is a big 906 00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:54,279 Speaker 1: Twitter user and a big Twitter aficionado, and who has 907 00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:57,439 Speaker 1: both provided, like all of us on Twitter, provided free 908 00:45:57,480 --> 00:46:02,440 Speaker 1: content but also got the free lift that Twitter provides. 909 00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:04,839 Speaker 1: And Steve King says twenty dollars a month to keep 910 00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:08,399 Speaker 1: my blue check. Fuck that they should pay me if 911 00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:12,799 Speaker 1: that gets instituted, I'm gone like Enron again. I just 912 00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:16,319 Speaker 1: want to point out here Enron, Okay, I don't think 913 00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:18,560 Speaker 1: you want to be like Enron, but had failed dead 914 00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:23,200 Speaker 1: rep vocabulary energy right. Besides J. K Rowling, Stephen King 915 00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:26,600 Speaker 1: is probably one of the richest authors ever. He can 916 00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:29,040 Speaker 1: afford to pay twenty dollars months now. I'm not saying 917 00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:31,879 Speaker 1: he should, but I'm just saying that I'm not sure 918 00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:35,359 Speaker 1: we need to celebrate this as like a kind of 919 00:46:35,719 --> 00:46:42,919 Speaker 1: there's so much like weird capitalist populism masquerading as capitalism 920 00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:48,160 Speaker 1: masquerading as populism. But ultimately, then Ellen response, we need 921 00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:52,759 Speaker 1: to pay bills. Somehow. Twitter cannot rely entirely on advertisers, 922 00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:55,280 Speaker 1: or in fact at all on advertisers, as it's looking 923 00:46:55,320 --> 00:46:58,760 Speaker 1: more and more how about eight bucks. I mean again, 924 00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:01,600 Speaker 1: these are things I feel like you should before you 925 00:47:01,640 --> 00:47:05,560 Speaker 1: put twenty billion dollars of your own money or stock up. 926 00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:08,840 Speaker 1: You should work these flesh these things out. But anyway, 927 00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:12,640 Speaker 1: so the two of them negotiating live on Twitter, showing 928 00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:16,600 Speaker 1: that neither has a great sense for what normal life 929 00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:19,880 Speaker 1: is like. I like Stephen King a lot. I don't 930 00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:22,920 Speaker 1: like Elon Quit as much. They both are the characters 931 00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:26,640 Speaker 1: of this moment in fucker Ay. That's it for this 932 00:47:26,719 --> 00:47:30,400 Speaker 1: episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday, and 933 00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:33,479 Speaker 1: Friday to your the best minds and politics makes sense 934 00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:36,560 Speaker 1: of all this chaos. If you enjoyed what you've heard, 935 00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:39,840 Speaker 1: please send it to a friend and keep the conversation going. 936 00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:41,960 Speaker 1: And again, thanks for listening.