1
00:00:01,040 --> 00:00:03,480
Speaker 1: Do you remember the day that Fara fass had died.

2
00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:08,280
Speaker 2: I do not, and I'm ashamed, but you.

3
00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:10,240
Speaker 1: Know it was the same day as Michael Jackson.

4
00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:11,280
Speaker 2: Was it.

5
00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:17,079
Speaker 1: I'm chatting with CNN anchor and sixty minutes correspondent Anderson

6
00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:20,720
Speaker 1: Cooper about one of the biggest days in the modern

7
00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:25,320
Speaker 1: history of obituaries, June twenty fifth, twenty oh nine.

8
00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:27,800
Speaker 2: I mean, now that you say it, I vague I

9
00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:32,360
Speaker 2: do recall did she die in the morning? And then

10
00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:35,080
Speaker 2: morning it was announced that Michael Jackson died a little

11
00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:35,559
Speaker 2: later that.

12
00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:39,000
Speaker 1: Day, Michael Jackson was confirmed dead right before the evening

13
00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:41,440
Speaker 1: news broadcast on the East Coast, so she had the

14
00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:42,960
Speaker 1: full first half of the day.

15
00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:46,400
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, as she should. I mean, well, yeah,

16
00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:49,920
Speaker 2: that's fast. I didn't realize that that's a strange pairing.

17
00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:53,599
Speaker 1: I asked Anderson to join me today because he not

18
00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:56,880
Speaker 1: only has a real understanding of the news cycle, but

19
00:00:56,920 --> 00:01:01,000
Speaker 1: he also hosts a podcast about death and green called

20
00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:05,480
Speaker 1: All There Is. Anderson started working on the podcast when

21
00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:08,119
Speaker 1: he was packing up the apartment of his late mother,

22
00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:12,640
Speaker 1: the well known designer, artist and heiress Gloria Vanderbilt.

23
00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:16,319
Speaker 3: I've lived, lost a lot, had dreams of love and

24
00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:17,600
Speaker 3: faithful encounters.

25
00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:21,399
Speaker 1: I wanted his take on why Michael Jackson's death so

26
00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:24,280
Speaker 1: completely overshadowed Farah Fawcett's.

27
00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:28,640
Speaker 2: I think it's a combination of her just I'm not

28
00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:33,600
Speaker 2: saying it's fair, but from a news standpoint, her career

29
00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:37,960
Speaker 2: had probably peaud I guess she was not in the

30
00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:41,520
Speaker 2: forefront of pop culture and the public consciousness in the

31
00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:43,039
Speaker 2: way that Michael Jackson still was.

32
00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:47,080
Speaker 1: Now. Pharaoh wasn't entirely out of the headlines in twenty

33
00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:50,320
Speaker 1: oh nine. She'd been very public about her three year

34
00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:54,600
Speaker 1: battle with cancer, but Michael Jackson's death was a shock,

35
00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:58,640
Speaker 1: a suspicious drug overdose. The King of Pop had even

36
00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:02,960
Speaker 1: been staging a comeback tour, and so as the afternoon progressed,

37
00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:08,280
Speaker 1: the special bulletins came fast and furious. Pop superstar Michael

38
00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:11,200
Speaker 1: Jackson rushed to a hospital in Los Angeles to day that.

39
00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:13,680
Speaker 2: When they arrived on scene, he was not breathing.

40
00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:17,560
Speaker 1: At three point fifteen Pacific time, Michael Jackson, the King

41
00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:22,280
Speaker 1: of Pop, was pronounced dead. Michael Jackson had an extraordinary

42
00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:26,560
Speaker 1: career and a troubled life, mark by incredible highs and

43
00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:27,519
Speaker 1: terrible lows.

44
00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:32,160
Speaker 2: Just from on a global scale and the ups and

45
00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:35,680
Speaker 2: downs and the controversies. I mean, look now, Michael Jackson

46
00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:38,079
Speaker 2: is still more talked about than Farah Fosterite.

47
00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:40,280
Speaker 1: There's no Fara Foss musical on Broadway. There should be.

48
00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:42,240
Speaker 1: But yes, you know, in a friend of mine from

49
00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:44,080
Speaker 1: the New York Times, I remember at the time he said,

50
00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:47,840
Speaker 1: Michael Jackson is a story about music, about business, about fashion,

51
00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:51,200
Speaker 1: about race, about celebrity justice, like every section of the paper.

52
00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:54,920
Speaker 2: Also, I mean there's his children, there's the family, there's

53
00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:59,720
Speaker 2: the siblings. There's the question of possible medical malpractice. And

54
00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:02,600
Speaker 2: Michael Jackson grew up before the cameras in a way

55
00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:03,959
Speaker 2: that Farah Fawcett did not.

56
00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:08,240
Speaker 1: The day after both of these pop culture icons passed away,

57
00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:14,000
Speaker 1: CBS's Early Show mentioned Jackson's name more than one hundred times.

58
00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:17,720
Speaker 1: Farah Fawcett was mentioned just six times.

59
00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:20,560
Speaker 4: And of course we're also going to remember Farah Fawcett.

60
00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:22,520
Speaker 4: Somebody put it this way, this is the moment when

61
00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:26,440
Speaker 4: Generation X realizes they're grown up, when we lose two

62
00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:30,520
Speaker 4: icons that really defined our generation. These people were on

63
00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:31,839
Speaker 4: our lunchbox, isn't it right?

64
00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:32,600
Speaker 3: Yeah?

65
00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:35,920
Speaker 1: It was the ultimate one two Punch yesterday speaking which

66
00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:39,600
Speaker 1: Ed McMahon died two days before Michael Jackson and Farah

67
00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:43,080
Speaker 1: fawcet Oh really interesting, totally ignored. Now when it comes

68
00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:47,480
Speaker 1: to obituaries, I've always been fascinated with the phenomenon surrounding

69
00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:51,880
Speaker 1: public figures who share the same death day, Who gets

70
00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:55,400
Speaker 1: top billing and why? So in this episode, I'm going

71
00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:58,360
Speaker 1: to do something a little different instead of focusing on

72
00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:01,960
Speaker 1: just one person, and and I, along with some other

73
00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:05,920
Speaker 1: special guests, will look at a series of noteworthy people

74
00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:08,440
Speaker 1: who happen to have died on the very same day

75
00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:12,720
Speaker 1: as other noteworthy people. There are, of course more cases

76
00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:16,760
Speaker 1: like Farah's where news of one person's death gets well

77
00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:19,919
Speaker 1: buried by the death of someone else more well known.

78
00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:21,960
Speaker 2: Of course, you're going to tell me that Charles Mansk

79
00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:22,840
Speaker 2: got all the coverage, then.

80
00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:26,960
Speaker 1: He got all the coverage. Some coincidences seem too perfect,

81
00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:31,960
Speaker 1: almost divinely engineered. I mean, what are the chances Thomas

82
00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:35,159
Speaker 1: Jefferson would die on the same day as John Adams

83
00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:39,520
Speaker 1: on July fourth, no less, not just any July fourth,

84
00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:43,080
Speaker 1: but the exact fiftieth anniversary of the signing of the

85
00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:48,440
Speaker 1: Declaration of Independence. There are cases of singular showbiz talents

86
00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:50,640
Speaker 1: turned co stars in death.

87
00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:53,800
Speaker 5: Sammy Davis Junior died after an eight month battle with

88
00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:57,080
Speaker 5: throat cancer, and Jim Henson Lee, creator of the Muppets,

89
00:04:57,440 --> 00:05:01,360
Speaker 5: died suddenly of what the hospital called a massive bacterial infection.

90
00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:05,479
Speaker 1: And then you have what I call the odd death fellows,

91
00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:10,560
Speaker 1: those with seemingly nothing in common. For example, Prime Minister

92
00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:15,279
Speaker 1: Margaret Thatcher and Mouseketeer and Nette Funicello. Can you imagine

93
00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:18,560
Speaker 1: the conversation those two had upon arrival in the afterlife.

94
00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:20,640
Speaker 2: I don't think Margaret Thatcher would have it much to

95
00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:21,760
Speaker 2: say to a net Fonicello.

96
00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:28,599
Speaker 1: I mean each blanked bingo from CBS Sunday Morning, and

97
00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:44,920
Speaker 1: iHeart I'm Morocca, and this is mobituaries, this mobit died

98
00:05:45,160 --> 00:06:00,159
Speaker 1: on the same day.

99
00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:13,760
Speaker 2: I mean Pharah Faws. I had her poster, her famous

100
00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:15,760
Speaker 2: poster of course, up in my room as a kid,

101
00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:20,440
Speaker 2: even though I wasn't really that interested in her in

102
00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:22,920
Speaker 2: the way that most of my friends were interested in her.

103
00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:26,960
Speaker 1: So that poster sold twelve million copies. And the thing

104
00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:28,560
Speaker 1: that I love about it, and I think this is

105
00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:31,279
Speaker 1: probably well at least why I loved Farah is that

106
00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:33,880
Speaker 1: Apparently she rushed through the shoot because she wanted to

107
00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:37,279
Speaker 1: go play tennis. But she was like a real person.

108
00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:40,640
Speaker 2: Yes, it's so of the time, it's so seventies, it's

109
00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:44,839
Speaker 2: so and she's just she Yeah, she looks real.

110
00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:47,520
Speaker 1: Now, we've got a bunch of died on the same

111
00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:50,880
Speaker 1: day pairings to get to. But because Farah got such

112
00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:53,320
Speaker 1: a raw deal on the day she died, we're going

113
00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:56,159
Speaker 1: to take some time now to give her some extra love.

114
00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:04,160
Speaker 1: When Farah posed for that nineteen seventy six photograph wearing

115
00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:09,320
Speaker 1: a red one piece swimsuit, she became instantly iconic. The hair,

116
00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:14,440
Speaker 1: the smile, those teeth. I mean. Tony Manero, John Tripolta's

117
00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:17,440
Speaker 1: character in Saturday Night Fever had her poster up on

118
00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:20,640
Speaker 1: his wall. Of course he did. By the way, Farah's

119
00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:24,560
Speaker 1: feathered flip was a TikTok fashion trend in twenty twenty three.

120
00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:28,040
Speaker 6: Once upon a time, there were three little girls who

121
00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:29,480
Speaker 6: went to the police Academy.

122
00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:33,760
Speaker 1: Anderson Cooper and I were just kids. When Charlie's Angels

123
00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:37,400
Speaker 1: premiered in the fall of nineteen seventy six, it was

124
00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:42,960
Speaker 1: a total sensation. It was sexy and preposterous. Three beautiful

125
00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:45,640
Speaker 1: women who fought crime at the behest of a man

126
00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:49,080
Speaker 1: they never saw but only heard via speakerphone.

127
00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:53,720
Speaker 7: You heard that, Charlie, everything, Sabrina, and I've already made

128
00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:55,679
Speaker 7: arrangements for you three to go to prison.

129
00:07:56,120 --> 00:07:56,520
Speaker 3: Prison.

130
00:07:57,480 --> 00:08:00,000
Speaker 4: You've got to be kidding, Charlie.

131
00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:03,960
Speaker 1: Angels can say that again. I loved all the angels,

132
00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:08,400
Speaker 1: including kay Jackson's Sabrina, today known as the stem Angel,

133
00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:11,320
Speaker 1: But Pharaoh was in a class all her own. She

134
00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:17,240
Speaker 1: radiated friendliness, big dreams, and a great American can do spirit. Jill,

135
00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:18,840
Speaker 1: thanks for everything.

136
00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:20,440
Speaker 2: You're an angel.

137
00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:22,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what.

138
00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:22,600
Speaker 3: They tell me.

139
00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:28,680
Speaker 1: Sarah Lenny Fawcett was born in Corpus Christi, Texas, in

140
00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:32,640
Speaker 1: nineteen forty seven. Farah was voted most beautiful by her

141
00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:36,360
Speaker 1: high school classmates every year. But, and this is crucial,

142
00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:39,240
Speaker 1: she was the kind of popular girl who was nice

143
00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:41,800
Speaker 1: to everyone. I have no proof of this. I just

144
00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:45,000
Speaker 1: know this instinctually. Don't challenge me. Sarah went to the

145
00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:49,200
Speaker 1: University of Texas at Austin to study microbiology before switching

146
00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:52,640
Speaker 1: to art. At twenty one. With her parents' permission, she

147
00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:56,240
Speaker 1: moved to Hollywood to try her luck in the entertainment industry.

148
00:08:56,880 --> 00:08:59,280
Speaker 1: She soon appeared on The Dating Game.

149
00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:00,960
Speaker 2: And number two.

150
00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:03,680
Speaker 8: Being from Texas, I'm used to having things done in

151
00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:06,040
Speaker 8: a big way, So how would you make a little

152
00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:08,079
Speaker 8: thing like sending me flowers really big?

153
00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:09,000
Speaker 6: Well?

154
00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:11,400
Speaker 2: The Dating Game always fascinated me because even as a

155
00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:13,320
Speaker 2: kid watching it, I couldn't tell if it was real

156
00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:16,240
Speaker 2: or not. Did she appear as Farah Fawce's.

157
00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:18,600
Speaker 1: She appeared as Fara Faucet. She chose bachelor number two,

158
00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:20,560
Speaker 1: who was definitely the best looking one. I'm glad she

159
00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:22,440
Speaker 1: chose him, and he seemed like the most normal.

160
00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:25,480
Speaker 2: There's no way that date happened if she was Farah

161
00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:28,080
Speaker 2: Fawcett at the time, I don't believe that that date happened.

162
00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:32,640
Speaker 1: Not surprisingly, Farah began popping up in all sorts of commercials.

163
00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:35,520
Speaker 1: It must be said that there still has never been

164
00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:39,520
Speaker 1: an advertisement as sexy as the TV commercial for Noxima's

165
00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:42,360
Speaker 1: shaving cream that ran during the Super Bowl in nineteen

166
00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:46,760
Speaker 1: seventy three. While singing, Farah lathers the product on the

167
00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:58,880
Speaker 1: face of superstar quarterback Joe Nimath. Farah left Charlie's Angels

168
00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:02,600
Speaker 1: after only one sea. For a while, she struggled to

169
00:10:02,679 --> 00:10:05,600
Speaker 1: show that she had talent after co starring in the

170
00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:09,840
Speaker 1: comedy mystery film Somebody Killed Her Husband. One critic wrote,

171
00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:13,480
Speaker 1: somebody killed her career, but she didn't give up, and

172
00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:17,680
Speaker 1: by the mid nineteen eighties, Farah proved the naysayers wrong.

173
00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:19,800
Speaker 2: You know, she had done The Burning Bed, so there

174
00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:24,280
Speaker 2: had been a revival of her and reappreciation of her,

175
00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:26,680
Speaker 2: And so she'd already gone through the cycle of sort

176
00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:29,079
Speaker 2: of rediscovery and reappreciation.

177
00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:33,240
Speaker 1: Anderson's referring to the nineteen eighty four TV movie The

178
00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:37,280
Speaker 1: Burning Bed, based on a true story, Farah played a

179
00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:41,640
Speaker 1: woman who fought back against an abusive husband. TV critic

180
00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:46,120
Speaker 1: Matt Zeller Sites has called the film a landmark, depicting

181
00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:50,840
Speaker 1: domestic violence as an unambiguous horror and a human rights violation,

182
00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:54,960
Speaker 1: and Farah's performance one of the finest in the history

183
00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:56,040
Speaker 1: of TV movies.

184
00:10:58,080 --> 00:10:59,760
Speaker 2: You know, I'm come and go as much as I want.

185
00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:04,320
Speaker 1: Just leave Mickey. On the personal front, her short lived

186
00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:07,760
Speaker 1: marriage to six million dollar man star Lee Majors and

187
00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:13,280
Speaker 1: long term relationship with heartthrob Ryan O'Neil were continuous tabloid fodder,

188
00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:17,040
Speaker 1: but when Pharah was diagnosed with anal cancer in twenty

189
00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:20,840
Speaker 1: oh six, it was her illness that made headlines. She

190
00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:24,280
Speaker 1: was suffering from anal cancer, which no everyone wanted to

191
00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:26,600
Speaker 1: talk about euphemistically. They would just say she had cancer,

192
00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:29,280
Speaker 1: but she insisted on putting that out there because it

193
00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:32,640
Speaker 1: was sort of like an unspeakable kind of cancer. Supposedly, Oh,

194
00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:36,040
Speaker 1: that's interesting, good for her. Many of her fans last

195
00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:40,560
Speaker 1: saw her appear in the NBC documentary Farah Story, which

196
00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:45,160
Speaker 1: intimately chronicled her decline. It premiered on May fifteenth, twenty

197
00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:47,520
Speaker 1: oh nine, the month before she died.

198
00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:54,199
Speaker 8: Sometimes this disease makes me feel like a stranger to myself,

199
00:11:55,400 --> 00:12:04,840
Speaker 8: like ablon nothingness, alone inside a body that once was mine,

200
00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:08,640
Speaker 8: but that has been damaged by radiation, chemo and all

201
00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:10,760
Speaker 8: those drugs necessary.

202
00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:16,880
Speaker 1: For me to live. Now in twenty oh nine, Michael

203
00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:20,520
Speaker 1: Jackson was bound to overshadow anybody who might have died

204
00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:23,679
Speaker 1: on the same day. But forty six years earlier, there

205
00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:26,960
Speaker 1: was a day when the world all but stopped spinning.

206
00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:30,960
Speaker 6: There is a bulletin from CBS News in Dallas, Texas.

207
00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:35,679
Speaker 6: Three shots were fired at President Kennedy's motorcade in downtown Dallas.

208
00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:39,400
Speaker 6: The first reports say that President Kennedy has been seriously

209
00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:43,800
Speaker 6: wounded by this shooting from Dallas, Texas. The flash apparently

210
00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:49,720
Speaker 6: official President Kennedy died at one pm Central Standard Time.

211
00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:55,320
Speaker 1: If you're of a certain age, you will never forget

212
00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:59,120
Speaker 1: where you were on November twenty second, nineteen sixty three,

213
00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:04,520
Speaker 1: day that President John F. Kennedy was assassinated, which means,

214
00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:07,360
Speaker 1: though you may not realize it, you will never forget

215
00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:11,760
Speaker 1: the day theologian C. S. Lewis, author of the Chronicles

216
00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:13,560
Speaker 1: of Narnia, met his maker.

217
00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:19,320
Speaker 9: Every stick and stone you see every icicle is Narnia.

218
00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:24,320
Speaker 1: Or the day writer and philosopher Aldus Huxley gave up

219
00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:25,200
Speaker 1: the ghost.

220
00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:26,600
Speaker 6: As searing social critic.

221
00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:30,400
Speaker 5: Mister Huxley wrote Brave New World, a novel that predicted

222
00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:34,479
Speaker 5: that someday the entire world would live under a frightful dictatorship.

223
00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:39,200
Speaker 1: Yes, all three men, John F. Kennedy, C. S. Lewis,

224
00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:42,960
Speaker 1: and Aldus Huxley died on the very same day.

225
00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:47,840
Speaker 2: That's so interesting. I just was trying to read an

226
00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:53,440
Speaker 2: Aldus hux lady small book about his experiences taking I

227
00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:55,680
Speaker 2: want to say it's peyote, but I don't think it's paoti.

228
00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:59,000
Speaker 2: It's mescaline. Mescaline yes, and I tried. I was really

229
00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:01,360
Speaker 2: excited to read it, and I started it, and I

230
00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:03,640
Speaker 2: just found it so dull.

231
00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:05,360
Speaker 1: That I thought you were going to say, found it

232
00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:05,959
Speaker 1: so trippy.

233
00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:10,559
Speaker 2: No, I just found it so dull. And that's interesting

234
00:14:10,559 --> 00:14:14,320
Speaker 2: because I just read C. S. Lewis his book about

235
00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:17,400
Speaker 2: the death of his wife, and it's really it's an

236
00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:18,520
Speaker 2: incredibly touching book.

237
00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:23,000
Speaker 1: I wonder there are people, probably fans of those authors

238
00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:24,800
Speaker 1: who never realized they died.

239
00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:29,120
Speaker 2: That's I'm sure that's true, or certainly you know it

240
00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:31,520
Speaker 2: took them a year to find out that they had died.

241
00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:35,320
Speaker 2: Even globally, I mean, there's no way the assassination of

242
00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:38,680
Speaker 2: President Kennedy on that day, there's no way anybody else

243
00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:40,320
Speaker 2: would get any airtime.

244
00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:43,440
Speaker 1: Well, Huxley's obit showed up two days later in the

245
00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:46,120
Speaker 1: paper on the twenty fourth of November, and then it

246
00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:48,560
Speaker 1: took yet another day for C. S. Lewis, who had

247
00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:50,640
Speaker 1: actually been the first of the three to die that day.

248
00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:54,680
Speaker 1: His death was reported on November twenty fifth. That same day,

249
00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:58,160
Speaker 1: though the headline was the death of Oswalt the murder

250
00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:01,160
Speaker 1: of him by Jack Rubin. He sort of got double

251
00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:02,080
Speaker 1: a clipse.

252
00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:06,680
Speaker 2: Wow. I mean It's extraordinary when you think about the

253
00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:09,880
Speaker 2: impact that C. S. Lewis had with all his books,

254
00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:14,400
Speaker 2: and beloved he was, and yet it's the vagary of

255
00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:17,960
Speaker 2: the day. I mean, it makes no you know. I've

256
00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:22,560
Speaker 2: been on airplanes with a couple of famous people, and

257
00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:26,800
Speaker 2: I remember one time thinking, if this plane goes down,

258
00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:29,600
Speaker 2: the headline is going to be that person was on

259
00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:32,480
Speaker 2: the plane and four others, and I would be one

260
00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:33,200
Speaker 2: of the four others.

261
00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:35,840
Speaker 1: I think that you'd either get below the fold on

262
00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:38,000
Speaker 1: a one, or you'd at least get the little reefer,

263
00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:39,440
Speaker 1: the little go to box.

264
00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:43,440
Speaker 2: First of all, thank you for having thought of this. Well, no,

265
00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:45,280
Speaker 2: I just you know, I think you have to. You're

266
00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:49,160
Speaker 2: plotting my death as I came in here today. Where

267
00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:51,760
Speaker 2: would I stack up. You're talking about a front page.

268
00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:53,160
Speaker 2: I would not be on the front page.

269
00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:54,600
Speaker 1: Oh we go on a plane with the queen.

270
00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:55,960
Speaker 2: I'm not going to say.

271
00:15:57,160 --> 00:16:00,680
Speaker 1: As a member of the storied Vanderbilt family, Anderson is

272
00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:03,720
Speaker 1: aware of the role that social class used to play

273
00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:05,080
Speaker 1: on the Obitz page.

274
00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:09,200
Speaker 2: When my great uncle Alfred Vanderbilt died on the Lusitania,

275
00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:12,240
Speaker 2: which was sunk by the Germans prior to the US

276
00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:16,200
Speaker 2: involvement in World War One. His name was in the

277
00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:21,560
Speaker 2: headlines of the announcement of the Lusitania being torpedoed. You know,

278
00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:27,600
Speaker 2: Alfred Vanderbilt doesn't survive, which is interesting given the number

279
00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:30,880
Speaker 2: of people on board that ship. And I don't think

280
00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:33,080
Speaker 2: I don't think that would happen today. Well, and this

281
00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:35,200
Speaker 2: was in the New York Times, right, New York Times. Well, okay,

282
00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:37,440
Speaker 2: And because the New York Times, especially then and for

283
00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:41,520
Speaker 2: a long time, sort of deferred very much to establishment families. Well,

284
00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:43,560
Speaker 2: I should also say I'm working a book about the

285
00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:47,640
Speaker 2: Asters and Jack Aster when he died on the Titanic,

286
00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:51,440
Speaker 2: the Astor name was very prominent in the headline.

287
00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:56,320
Speaker 1: Well, speaking of which, February fourth, nineteen fifty nine, on

288
00:16:56,440 --> 00:17:00,160
Speaker 1: page sixty six, way back in the paper, the headline

289
00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:05,160
Speaker 1: reads three singers who died in crash of chartered plane,

290
00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:08,439
Speaker 1: and there are pictures here. They are Buddy Holly, Big

291
00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:11,880
Speaker 1: Bopper and Richie Vallence. This is the so called day

292
00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:12,840
Speaker 1: the music died.

293
00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:15,040
Speaker 3: The three singers that appeared at the Surf.

294
00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:17,000
Speaker 6: Ballroom in clear Like Iowa last night, and.

295
00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:19,119
Speaker 5: We're on the way to Fargo, North Dakota.

296
00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:21,320
Speaker 1: This is page sixty six.

297
00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:22,480
Speaker 3: Right.

298
00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:27,680
Speaker 1: However, there is another death on page A one that day,

299
00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:30,040
Speaker 1: and it is if you can see right there.

300
00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:35,320
Speaker 2: Wow, it was at Vincent Astor dies in his home

301
00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:36,840
Speaker 2: at sixty seventy. I had dropped out of a heart

302
00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:38,080
Speaker 2: attack in his home.

303
00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:38,880
Speaker 10: Wow.

304
00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:42,520
Speaker 2: I mean Vincent Astro had been one of the richest

305
00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:45,160
Speaker 2: men in America since he inherited the money from Jack

306
00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:50,480
Speaker 2: Astro when Jack Astro died on the Titanic. But I

307
00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:54,120
Speaker 2: don't think today that person would be on the front page.

308
00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:57,879
Speaker 2: I think the Buddy Holly, the Richie Vallens, and the

309
00:17:57,920 --> 00:17:59,480
Speaker 2: big Bopper would be right.

310
00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:02,359
Speaker 1: I think that's right. I think the criteria has changed,

311
00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:03,200
Speaker 1: has changed.

312
00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:08,320
Speaker 3: Love like yours will silly come by.

313
00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:13,360
Speaker 1: We're going to do a quiz now. On November nineteenth,

314
00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:17,880
Speaker 1: twenty seventeen, two very different figures died on the same day.

315
00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:21,600
Speaker 1: The first became best known for her television roles, but

316
00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:25,480
Speaker 1: began her career as a jazz and gospel singer, releasing

317
00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:29,320
Speaker 1: her biggest hit, Don't You Know in nineteen fifty nine.

318
00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:30,840
Speaker 1: Here's a little bit.

319
00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:30,919
Speaker 7: Of a.

320
00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:42,720
Speaker 2: I have fallen in love with these.

321
00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:46,119
Speaker 1: Right, did a little hard So I'm going to give

322
00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:49,240
Speaker 1: you a couple of other clues. She became very big

323
00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:53,400
Speaker 1: in the nineteen nineties on a Sunday night inspirational CBS

324
00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:56,000
Speaker 1: hour long drama. She had been big in the nineteen

325
00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:58,280
Speaker 1: fifties and then in the seventies she was on the

326
00:18:58,280 --> 00:18:59,960
Speaker 1: sitcom Chico and the Man.

327
00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:03,639
Speaker 11: If you don't come to that meeting, somebody is just

328
00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:06,360
Speaker 11: liable to report this greasy old.

329
00:19:06,119 --> 00:19:08,440
Speaker 6: Garage as a fire hazard.

330
00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:10,480
Speaker 3: Why this is some kind of black mail.

331
00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:11,520
Speaker 8: Well, it ain't.

332
00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:17,560
Speaker 1: White male baby. That's Dela Reice. Touched by an Angel?

333
00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:18,240
Speaker 6: Right.

334
00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:23,320
Speaker 1: So she died on November nineteenth, twenty seventeen, and she

335
00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:26,119
Speaker 1: had a really interesting life. She toured with Mahelia Jackson

336
00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:27,800
Speaker 1: when she was thirteen years old, so she had its

337
00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:29,919
Speaker 1: great career as a singer before she was on the

338
00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:32,320
Speaker 1: sitcom and then Untouched by an Angel. By the way,

339
00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:37,320
Speaker 1: Untouched my Angel, I never understood, like Roma Downey was

340
00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:41,280
Speaker 1: this angel that would go around and I think Delice

341
00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:43,040
Speaker 1: was like her supervisor or something.

342
00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:46,320
Speaker 2: Don't you raise your voice to me, miss Wings, you.

343
00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:48,639
Speaker 9: Got a little pride thing going on yourself.

344
00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:52,760
Speaker 2: I watched a lot of TV, but like Touched by

345
00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:55,480
Speaker 2: Angel probably was not something Every morning I was looking

346
00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:58,680
Speaker 2: a little darker, Yeah, a little mer dystopian.

347
00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:03,720
Speaker 1: Murder. She wrote, Well, I mean, I mean, every every

348
00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:06,040
Speaker 1: week someone dies in this tiny town in Maine. That's

349
00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:10,400
Speaker 1: pretty dark. Anyway. On that same day, November nineteenth, twenty seventeen,

350
00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:15,440
Speaker 1: another person who was decidedly not touched by an angel died.

351
00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:18,240
Speaker 1: He also began his career in music.

352
00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:27,560
Speaker 9: Ah, those real look at your game, Look at your game.

353
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:31,400
Speaker 12: What a mad delusion.

354
00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:35,800
Speaker 1: Let's stop that now and then, because there's no way,

355
00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:38,400
Speaker 1: there's no way you're gonna get this. I'll just give

356
00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:40,200
Speaker 1: you a clue. He was a psychopathic killer.

357
00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:41,880
Speaker 2: And well, I was gonna say, is he a serial

358
00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:44,000
Speaker 2: that's so funny. I was going to say, just from

359
00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:46,440
Speaker 2: that thing, I was like, is that like a recording

360
00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:48,240
Speaker 2: made in prison by a serial killer?

361
00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:51,840
Speaker 1: It was a recording made before this killer went to prison,

362
00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:54,560
Speaker 1: and he was in charge of a family.

363
00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:55,560
Speaker 2: That Charles Manson.

364
00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:58,960
Speaker 1: Yes, Oh my gosh, Charles Manson delay. This just got

365
00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:03,359
Speaker 1: really dark, really dark. And I understand the fascination or

366
00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:05,760
Speaker 1: that there was a fascination with Charles Manson.

367
00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:07,320
Speaker 2: Of course you're going to tell me that Charles Manson

368
00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:08,040
Speaker 2: got all the coverage, He.

369
00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:09,879
Speaker 1: Got all the covers in New York Times. He was

370
00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:13,120
Speaker 1: on a one. Delriice was on a nineteen. The Chicago

371
00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:16,040
Speaker 1: Tribune put Charles Manson on the front page. They gave

372
00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:18,840
Speaker 1: nothing to Dela Resee. The La Times made Dela Reice

373
00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:19,440
Speaker 1: wait a day.

374
00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:22,119
Speaker 2: I was probably on the air that day, And if

375
00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:24,639
Speaker 2: I don't recall what I did, but I would imagine

376
00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:29,880
Speaker 2: faced with those two, I.

377
00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:32,240
Speaker 1: Mean, go with God, go with the Angel.

378
00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:34,399
Speaker 2: I mean, I think you have to go with Charles Manson,

379
00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:38,520
Speaker 2: maybe like a reader of like, you know, del Reice died,

380
00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:42,639
Speaker 2: but to at least give her some props, yes, but

381
00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:47,080
Speaker 2: you know, and maybe play a clip from I mean again,

382
00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:51,560
Speaker 2: it's unfair, but just in terms of like foremost in

383
00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:55,760
Speaker 2: people's consciousness and the nightmares of generations of people and

384
00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:58,640
Speaker 2: knowing that this person is no longer out there.

385
00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:00,440
Speaker 1: How would you do that transition?

386
00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:00,720
Speaker 12: Though?

387
00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:03,080
Speaker 2: Well, I'm not going to do them close together, not

388
00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:05,600
Speaker 2: going to do a four minute piece on Charles Manson.

389
00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:07,560
Speaker 2: Then be like, oh, in Dela Reste, well.

390
00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:11,600
Speaker 1: Or would you say we lost Ella Reese today and

391
00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:12,880
Speaker 1: in much darker.

392
00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:16,520
Speaker 2: Us No, or you would not at all link them together.

393
00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:19,680
Speaker 1: Well, if you say somebody that we're actually sorry, we lost.

394
00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:22,600
Speaker 2: Why no, why are you insisting on putting these two together?

395
00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:24,840
Speaker 2: What is your vendetta against Dela Reo?

396
00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:25,239
Speaker 5: No?

397
00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:27,679
Speaker 1: No, no, I actually have her greatest hits. I really do.

398
00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:31,600
Speaker 1: But I'm just thinking if you want the broadcast to

399
00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:34,760
Speaker 1: have some cohesion and so, no, and then and then

400
00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:37,359
Speaker 1: later on we'll all be touched by an angel. No,

401
00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:38,400
Speaker 1: we don't do that. We wait.

402
00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:42,160
Speaker 2: I would not also make a you've made now to

403
00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:44,800
Speaker 2: touch by an angel sort of puns. I would not

404
00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:47,639
Speaker 2: do a touch by an angel pun either. You said

405
00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:50,320
Speaker 2: someone who is definitely not touched by an angel? Right,

406
00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:53,000
Speaker 2: was not a which was a clever transition, but not

407
00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:54,960
Speaker 2: when I wouldn't get but I would That's not what

408
00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:57,240
Speaker 2: I would have used in a broadcast, like coming up.

409
00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:01,120
Speaker 1: Or something subtler, a passing that is touched all of us.

410
00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:05,280
Speaker 1: You could do that and then people won't know and

411
00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:08,280
Speaker 1: then afterwards. It was a very popular show. And she

412
00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:10,400
Speaker 1: sang the theme song as well.

413
00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:11,199
Speaker 2: Oh I didn't know that.

414
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:16,119
Speaker 3: I need all the time.

415
00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:25,240
Speaker 1: I January seventeenth, twenty eight chess master Bobby Fisher, who

416
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:29,760
Speaker 1: then became a paranoid anti Semmi, and Alan Melvin Alvin

417
00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:32,160
Speaker 1: Melvin Sam the Butcher from The Rady Bunch.

418
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:35,320
Speaker 2: Oh, Sam Alice's boyfriend.

419
00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:37,080
Speaker 3: Sam.

420
00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:38,720
Speaker 2: It's me Alice.

421
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:41,720
Speaker 3: That's what I said, Sam.

422
00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:48,560
Speaker 1: Alice's boyfriend. And what happened to Butcher's like there there.

423
00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:50,640
Speaker 2: You don't you don't see the you don't see Butcher's

424
00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:51,520
Speaker 2: It's true.

425
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:54,639
Speaker 1: Bobby Fisher in The New York Times A one at

426
00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:59,080
Speaker 1: the Bottom, nothing on Alan Melvin. Alan Melvin was on

427
00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:03,119
Speaker 1: be sick in the Washington Post four days after he died.

428
00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:06,280
Speaker 2: Okay, I mean, I don't know what to say.

429
00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:12,199
Speaker 1: July eighth, nineteen ninety four. Dick Sergeant, the second actor

430
00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:16,280
Speaker 1: to play Darren in the nineteen sixties sitcom Bewitched, Good

431
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:20,280
Speaker 1: Morning in Dora, How Nice You Dropped In? And North

432
00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:25,080
Speaker 1: Korea's founding dictator Kim Il sung die on the same day.

433
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:28,720
Speaker 5: North Korea Tonight announced a nine day period of mourning

434
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:31,640
Speaker 5: for the only leader it's ever had, Dictator Kim El

435
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:33,520
Speaker 5: Sung dead at eighty two.

436
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:36,800
Speaker 2: That was a tough one for us of who do we?

437
00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 2: Who do we? Who we cover?

438
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:41,600
Speaker 1: But you know, here's the thing. I feel so bad

439
00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:44,800
Speaker 1: for Dick Sergeant because it's tough enough being the second Darren.

440
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:47,080
Speaker 1: Because everyone knows the first Daron dick Yorick was a

441
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:50,600
Speaker 1: better Darren, although Dick Sargent later came out and became

442
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:53,240
Speaker 1: a gay rights advocate and was apparently a lovely, lovely guy.

443
00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:55,920
Speaker 1: But to be overshadowed on that though that one day

444
00:24:56,000 --> 00:25:02,240
Speaker 1: you expect all the attention, right A that's genocidal maniac.

445
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:04,920
Speaker 2: Takes it from you, takes it from you. Don't try

446
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:06,000
Speaker 2: to spare my feelings.

447
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:08,840
Speaker 1: There's one thing I can't stand at someone feeling sorry

448
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:13,119
Speaker 1: for me. Fun fact. Dick Sargent's first film role was

449
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:16,240
Speaker 1: a bit part in nineteen fifty four's Prisoner of War

450
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:22,160
Speaker 1: about Americans in a North Korean pow camp who knew

451
00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:29,639
Speaker 1: coming up after the break some downright spooky coincidences and

452
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:34,200
Speaker 1: some very odd death fellows.

453
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:51,720
Speaker 10: Fifty years to the day after the declaration of Independence,

454
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:54,720
Speaker 10: having said all he had to say to us, which

455
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 10: was enough, Thomas Jefferson died on this bed a freeman

456
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:02,400
Speaker 10: on that same day.

457
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:06,119
Speaker 7: A few hours later, away to the north in Massachusetts,

458
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:10,919
Speaker 7: John Adams, also old and weak, also satisfied to have

459
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:16,160
Speaker 7: lived until the fourth also died. His last words were,

460
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:19,080
Speaker 7: Thomas Jefferson still lives.

461
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:22,440
Speaker 2: That's so crazy that they died in the same day.

462
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:25,800
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm talking with Anders and Cooper about famous

463
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:29,040
Speaker 1: people dying on the same day. It doesn't get much

464
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:33,639
Speaker 1: eerier than two founding fathers meeting their creator on the

465
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:37,960
Speaker 1: very day the nation they had helped birth turned fifty.

466
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:41,520
Speaker 2: And wasn't Adams's son, the president.

467
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 1: John Quincy Adams.

468
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:47,879
Speaker 2: So I wonder had I been on the air that day, hypothetically,

469
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:51,000
Speaker 2: like the coverage, what would you do, Like if television

470
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:54,880
Speaker 2: had been around, both would probably get equal. But because

471
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:58,200
Speaker 2: his son is the current president, his son would come

472
00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:01,240
Speaker 2: out and make like some sort of blick statement and stuff,

473
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 2: So Adams might that might push Adams up above Jefferson.

474
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:07,080
Speaker 3: Yep.

475
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 1: I think that's absolutely right.

476
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:11,679
Speaker 2: Because he would hold maybe a live press event and

477
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:14,840
Speaker 2: you would take the whole thing. You have to say,

478
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:16,760
Speaker 2: the whole thing, and he would give I mean, he

479
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:18,600
Speaker 2: would do a lot about his dad. He would definitely

480
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:20,920
Speaker 2: do a head nod to Jefferson and a lot about Jefferson.

481
00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:23,640
Speaker 2: But John Quincy Adams is going to speak live in

482
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 2: a minute, We're obviously going to take this live. That

483
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:28,920
Speaker 2: would be twenty minutes, and then.

484
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:32,959
Speaker 1: Van Jones, what do you think and we're back with

485
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:35,640
Speaker 1: the panel. But you know, this was considered a big

486
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:38,400
Speaker 1: deal the fiftieth anniversary of the signing of the Declaration

487
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:40,360
Speaker 1: of Independence. It's not something we just looked back at.

488
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:40,640
Speaker 3: Now.

489
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:46,800
Speaker 1: Do you think that a person can hold on to

490
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:49,720
Speaker 1: die on a day like that?

491
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:51,720
Speaker 2: I do think that. Yeah. I mean, I don't know,

492
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:53,960
Speaker 2: I don't have any actual evidence for that, but yeah,

493
00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:58,520
Speaker 2: I mean it seems first of all, too coincidental in

494
00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:02,360
Speaker 2: that way. But but yeah, I do believe people can

495
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:09,200
Speaker 2: hold on or decide like I'm ready. And maybe maybe

496
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:11,080
Speaker 2: they did, one of them, or maybe just one of

497
00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:13,120
Speaker 2: them did the other. It just happened to be that day.

498
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:17,680
Speaker 2: That one seems particularly too coincidental. I mean, what are

499
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 2: the chances of that?

500
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:19,000
Speaker 3: Do you know?

501
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:22,720
Speaker 1: What's so cute is that James Monroe died five years

502
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:25,240
Speaker 1: later to the day, So he died on the fifty

503
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:29,959
Speaker 1: fifth anniversary. Yeah, on July fourth, eighteen thirty one. And

504
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:31,919
Speaker 1: it just is I wonder if he was like, hey, guys,

505
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:35,159
Speaker 1: I want to be me too. I want to be

506
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:45,120
Speaker 1: in the club. But not really another historic coincidence. November tenth,

507
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:51,760
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty two, Former First Lady Eleanor Roosevelt and Lillian Cross,

508
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:56,320
Speaker 1: the woman who decades earlier foiled an assassination attempt on

509
00:28:56,400 --> 00:29:00,080
Speaker 1: Frank Lindelano Roosevelt, are buried on the same day, a.

510
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:07,880
Speaker 6: Final tribute to Eleanor Roosevelt, distinguished Lady of our times.

511
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 1: Back in nineteen thirty three, the five foot four, one

512
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 1: hundred pound Missus Cross was watching the then President elect

513
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:20,400
Speaker 1: deliver a speech in Miami. When she noticed the even

514
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:25,440
Speaker 1: shorter Giuseppe Zanngara aiming a gun at Roosevelt. She grabbed

515
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:26,920
Speaker 1: him by the arm.

516
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:29,560
Speaker 8: I knew he was shooting at the President, so my

517
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:31,800
Speaker 8: first thought was to get the foot club in the

518
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:33,320
Speaker 8: as so it wouldn't hurt any.

519
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 1: Of the bastin. Because of her heroics, FDR was spared

520
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 1: and the bullet instead killed Chicago Mayor Anton Sermak. So

521
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:48,840
Speaker 1: we've talked about pairings that sort of seemed to go together,

522
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 1: but what about pairs that don't seem to have anything

523
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:57,120
Speaker 1: in common, like Pope Benedict the sixteenth and Pointer sister

524
00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:01,800
Speaker 1: Anita Pointer. Then there's Whitewater Prosecute, Ken Starr and French

525
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:05,120
Speaker 1: New Wave director Jean Luc Cadard, who were both left

526
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:09,480
Speaker 1: breathless on the same day. Ditto character actor Rip Torn

527
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 1: and third party presidential candidate Ross Perot, who was himself

528
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:15,240
Speaker 1: a pretty great character.

529
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 3: Now whose fault is there?

530
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 12: Not the Democrats, not Republicans.

531
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:22,160
Speaker 1: Somewhere out there, there's an extraterrestrial that's doing this to us.

532
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:25,640
Speaker 1: I guess these kinds of pairings are what I call

533
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:30,560
Speaker 1: odd death fellows. For this special category, I turned to

534
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 1: two veteran obituary writers whom I met at twenty nineteen's

535
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:38,920
Speaker 1: Obit Khan. Yes, Obit Khan think comic con but for

536
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:44,080
Speaker 1: obituary writers. Ka Powell spent fifteen years at the Atlanta

537
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:47,560
Speaker 1: Journal Constitution and is known in the biz as the

538
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 1: Doyenne of Death. John Pope is a fifty year veteran

539
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:55,600
Speaker 1: of the business, penning obits, most notably for the New

540
00:30:55,680 --> 00:31:00,680
Speaker 1: Orleans Times Picayune. Both are fluent in the euphemisms used

541
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 1: to eulogize the dead.

542
00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:08,720
Speaker 3: Passed on, join God's Heaven, require or my favorite, the

543
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:09,480
Speaker 3: lights went out.

544
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 13: Lady fran means well or prostitute or raconteur is a

545
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:20,920
Speaker 13: boring storyteller.

546
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:23,840
Speaker 1: A racontry, a boring storyteller in an obituary, Yes, racus.

547
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 3: Racus means loud drunk.

548
00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:30,280
Speaker 1: Naturally, I thought they'd be the perfect duo to talk

549
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:35,560
Speaker 1: about this next combination of famous figures. April eighth, twenty thirteen,

550
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 1: Former British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher dies on the very

551
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:44,040
Speaker 1: same day as former mouseketeer and star of Beach Blanket

552
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:53,160
Speaker 1: Bingo A net Funaicello age age brag. Now, can either

553
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 1: of you give our listeners a sense of how big

554
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:57,520
Speaker 1: a deal a net Funaicello was.

555
00:31:57,680 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 3: Any boy who grew up in the nineteen fifties much

556
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:03,480
Speaker 3: Mickey Mouse Club was just head over heels in love

557
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:04,760
Speaker 3: with Annette.

558
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:08,120
Speaker 11: Pine too twift our MOCKI dial to the right and

559
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 11: left were the great big smile. This is the way

560
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 11: we get to see a mouse cartoon.

561
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:20,040
Speaker 14: For you and me, well, as a woman of that era,

562
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:28,000
Speaker 14: the most influential was Beach Blanket Bingo and her two

563
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 14: piece bathing suit. Really couldn't call it a bikini. It

564
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:46,080
Speaker 14: was a two piece bathing suit, which I did have osa.

565
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:47,720
Speaker 3: Well, you didn't mention this detail about an that footagellow swimsuit.

566
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:50,520
Speaker 3: She didn't show her navel because Walt Disney didn't want to.

567
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:55,720
Speaker 14: And I wouldn't either because we were ladies. John, she

568
00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 14: didn't have to be told that.

569
00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:01,120
Speaker 1: For people who are familiar with Vanessa Dudgeons right from

570
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:04,480
Speaker 1: high school musical or Selena Gomez, you know, Anette Funicello

571
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:09,280
Speaker 1: was probably orders of magnitude bigger than those. She became

572
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:12,520
Speaker 1: even more beloved after struggling for years with MS and

573
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:16,400
Speaker 1: really advocating for others. Now, as for the obituary coverage,

574
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:21,240
Speaker 1: Margaret Thatcher got more attention. I wonder if news organizations

575
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:25,360
Speaker 1: struggled to balance who they thought they should prioritize versus

576
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:27,719
Speaker 1: who the audience wanted to hear more about. What do

577
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:28,440
Speaker 1: you all think?

578
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:32,640
Speaker 14: No, they knew it would be Margaret Thatcher.

579
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:34,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, Thatcher had been out on a limelight, but she

580
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:37,200
Speaker 3: did lead a nation for better or worse.

581
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:41,360
Speaker 1: In the aftermath of Thatcher's death, protesters in the UK

582
00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:44,960
Speaker 1: began an online campaign to propel the song Ding Dong

583
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:47,360
Speaker 1: the Witch Is Dead from The Wizard of Oz to

584
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:51,200
Speaker 1: the number one position on British iTunes. I wonder how

585
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 1: do you handle the situation as an obit writer when

586
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:58,160
Speaker 1: the figure you're writing about has a complicated legacy, a

587
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:01,200
Speaker 1: legacy that polarizes people you.

588
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:03,920
Speaker 3: Write it, you tell the story, you.

589
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:08,600
Speaker 14: Tell the truth. Yeah, it's a news story and that's

590
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:09,640
Speaker 14: part of the news.

591
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:13,920
Speaker 1: January thirtieth, nineteen forty eight, The New.

592
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:17,520
Speaker 5: Delhi, India Radio has just been heard reporting that Mohandas

593
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:19,160
Speaker 5: Gandhi has been fatally shot.

594
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:24,440
Speaker 1: Mahatma Gandhi, the great Liberator of India, is slain on

595
00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:27,840
Speaker 1: the same day that Orville Wright, the co inventor of

596
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:31,200
Speaker 1: the airplane, dies here at Kitty Hawk, North Carolina.

597
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:33,960
Speaker 2: This primitive kite made aviation history.

598
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 1: Now, obviously Gandhi dominated that day banner headline, but Orville

599
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:44,000
Speaker 1: Wright was also on the front page below the fold

600
00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:47,880
Speaker 1: of most major newspapers. This makes sense, right.

601
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:51,960
Speaker 14: I I think if I look at it over the

602
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:57,320
Speaker 14: long haul, to me, we're looking at two people whose

603
00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:04,680
Speaker 14: contributions are equal and affecting the entire world forever.

604
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:08,800
Speaker 1: Now, it had been forty four years since that first

605
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:12,319
Speaker 1: flight at Kitty Hawk when Orville Wright died, and it

606
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:15,440
Speaker 1: had been thirty six years since his older brother Wilbur

607
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:18,880
Speaker 1: had died. I suppose that accounts for how much less

608
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:21,200
Speaker 1: coverage Orvill Wright got on that day. But you do

609
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 1: make the point that flying, I mean, it's an unimaginable legacy.

610
00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:29,120
Speaker 3: Gandhi, I mean, Gandhi founded a nation, and there was

611
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:32,359
Speaker 3: also the drama of his death orvil Wright was thought

612
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:34,560
Speaker 3: of as more of a part of a pair. I mean,

613
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:39,560
Speaker 3: I'm sorry that he died, but he was old and

614
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 3: he didn't die as dramatically as Gandhi.

615
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:46,520
Speaker 1: And being part of a pair, maybe the power of

616
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:51,479
Speaker 1: his passing is diminished, like by a fraction of half.

617
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:56,640
Speaker 3: Oh easily. Absolutely. I wasn't around when either Lewis or

618
00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:59,279
Speaker 3: Clark died, so I can't vouch for the coverage their

619
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:00,640
Speaker 3: death's got like that.

620
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:07,160
Speaker 1: September twenty eighth, twenty oh three, tennis pioneer ALTHEA. Gibson

621
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:12,600
Speaker 1: and director Elia Kazan both died now. Kazan was one

622
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:16,239
Speaker 1: of the most honored and influential directors in Broadway in

623
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:23,320
Speaker 1: Hollywood history. He was most famous for his Broadway productions

624
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:25,600
Speaker 1: A Street Car Named Desire and Death of a Salesman,

625
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:29,200
Speaker 1: and for his movies On the Waterfront and East of Eden. Personally,

626
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:30,760
Speaker 1: I love tree grows in Brooklyn.

627
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:33,160
Speaker 14: They didn't have any right to kill it, did they, Papa?

628
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:37,879
Speaker 2: Oh No, wait a minute, they didn't kill it.

629
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:41,480
Speaker 1: Why they couldn't kill that three. He was controversial. In

630
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:45,360
Speaker 1: his nineteen fifty two testimony before the House on American

631
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:49,080
Speaker 1: Activities Committee, Kazan named the names of eight others who

632
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:51,920
Speaker 1: had been members of the Communist Party with him. Althea

633
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:55,960
Speaker 1: Gibson was a legendary tennis player who broke color barriers

634
00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:59,080
Speaker 1: in the sport as a young woman. She was the

635
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:03,040
Speaker 1: first africa An American tennis player, female or male, to

636
00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 1: win a Grand Slam title.

637
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:08,960
Speaker 7: After Wimbledon, New York or Native City welcome to her

638
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:11,120
Speaker 7: hall with a ticker tape parade up Broadway.

639
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:19,640
Speaker 9: I would have never thought that, coming from the streets

640
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 9: of New York playing paddle tennis, that I would be

641
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:26,520
Speaker 9: one who would have the opportunity to shake the hand

642
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 9: of Queen Elizabeth.

643
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:31,480
Speaker 1: She was the first black tennis player to compete in

644
00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:34,600
Speaker 1: the US National Championships, the precursor to the US Open,

645
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:38,160
Speaker 1: and then in golf, she became the first black woman

646
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:42,320
Speaker 1: on the LPGA Tour. They both had a lot of coverage.

647
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:45,720
Speaker 1: Kazanne got more coverage, so in the New York Times,

648
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:49,759
Speaker 1: Kazan edged out Althea Gibson in the Chicago Tribune. In

649
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:55,480
Speaker 1: the LA Times, they were fairly equal. You know, Kazan

650
00:37:55,680 --> 00:38:00,640
Speaker 1: was a heavyweight, but Gibson was a major. First. Did

651
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:02,359
Speaker 1: newspapers get this one right?

652
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:07,600
Speaker 3: Well, if you go by recent fame slash notoriety, Kazan

653
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:11,160
Speaker 3: had gotten back into the spotlight a couple of years

654
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:15,760
Speaker 3: earlier when he was given an honorary Oscar and people

655
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:19,799
Speaker 3: were furious because this man who had named names was

656
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:20,760
Speaker 3: getting an award.

657
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:26,480
Speaker 14: I would have probably given her more coverage for the

658
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:32,319
Speaker 14: groundbreaking things that she did and the variety of accomplishments

659
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:33,000
Speaker 14: she had.

660
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:38,600
Speaker 1: October third, nineteen sixty seven, Two very different cultural figures

661
00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:41,800
Speaker 1: left us that very day. Here is the first.

662
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 10: This land is your land, and this land is my land.

663
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:50,840
Speaker 15: From California to the New York.

664
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:56,760
Speaker 14: Island, from the Redwood Forest and the Gulf Stream waters.

665
00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:00,080
Speaker 15: This land was made for you and me.

666
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:04,359
Speaker 1: Okay. That's American folk singer Woody Guthrie. Of course, he

667
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:07,840
Speaker 1: died from Huntington's disease at fifty five. It wasn't front

668
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:10,720
Speaker 1: page news, but it was the leading obituary in most

669
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:14,799
Speaker 1: major papers. Now here's the voice of the other big

670
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:16,319
Speaker 1: entertainer who died that day.

671
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:17,719
Speaker 6: Does follow me?

672
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 14: Bozo the Clown and I'll take you Dousey Kurt's home.

673
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 1: This is indeed the original Bozo the Clown, played by

674
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:32,280
Speaker 1: the actor Pinto Colvig. Ultimately, there were many different Bosos

675
00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:35,319
Speaker 1: depending on where you lived, but the very first was

676
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:40,400
Speaker 1: Pinto Colvig. Any thoughts on the contrast between Woody Guthrie

677
00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:41,640
Speaker 1: and Boso.

678
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:44,880
Speaker 3: Couldn't be more different. I mean, Woody Guthrie was of

679
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:49,240
Speaker 3: the people and Boso performed his whole career in clown makeup.

680
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:51,200
Speaker 3: No one I couldn't tell you what he looked like.

681
00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:54,520
Speaker 1: Let me also add that Colvig Pinto Colvig, was the

682
00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:59,800
Speaker 1: original voice of Disney's Goofy and Pluto the Dog. Colvig

683
00:39:59,840 --> 00:40:03,360
Speaker 1: a also voiced the bearded muscleman, Blue Doo and Popeye.

684
00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:05,800
Speaker 1: And it's interesting because I used to always confuse Pluto

685
00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:10,760
Speaker 1: and Blueto, even though they are very different characters.

686
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:15,879
Speaker 6: Oh that I am, okay, have it my way.

687
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:22,759
Speaker 14: I would think that John sort of hit on it

688
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:28,279
Speaker 14: with the anonymity of who is Boso? He had an

689
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:32,080
Speaker 14: appeal on one level. Would he go through who was

690
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:37,880
Speaker 14: kind of more political? The themes of his songs could

691
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:43,200
Speaker 14: be divisive, but clowns are rarely divisive unless you're afraid

692
00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:45,959
Speaker 14: they're going to eat you, so you don't sleep right.

693
00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:49,160
Speaker 3: There's that you're talking with someone who dated the first

694
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:51,640
Speaker 3: female graduate of Ringling's Clown College.

695
00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:54,040
Speaker 1: Is that true?

696
00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:57,120
Speaker 3: Yes, her name is Peggy Williams. She is in the

697
00:40:57,160 --> 00:40:58,360
Speaker 3: Clown Hall of Fame.

698
00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:01,439
Speaker 1: That's really exciting. Was dating her a lot of fun.

699
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:05,640
Speaker 3: She had this habit because of her training. Whenever we'd

700
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:07,040
Speaker 3: go to dinner, I would say something kind of a

701
00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:09,239
Speaker 3: music and she would react. She was playing to the

702
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:11,680
Speaker 3: second balcony. So it's kind of scary.

703
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:18,840
Speaker 1: When we've crossed over to the other side of the

704
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:31,480
Speaker 1: break more with Anderson Cooper. We're back with Anderson Cooper

705
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:34,560
Speaker 1: and a game I call above the fold. Below the

706
00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:39,000
Speaker 1: fold New York Times edition. For those of you who

707
00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:42,160
Speaker 1: still remember what a newspaper looks like. The top half

708
00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:45,040
Speaker 1: of the front page is above the fold, where the

709
00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:48,160
Speaker 1: really big news goes. The bottom half of a one

710
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:51,360
Speaker 1: is below the fold, where the still big, just not

711
00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:55,279
Speaker 1: quite as big news goes. Okay, I'm obsessed with this,

712
00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:57,239
Speaker 1: even though no one under the age of fifty notes

713
00:41:57,239 --> 00:41:58,560
Speaker 1: that this means, right.

714
00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:00,319
Speaker 2: I actually still get a newspaper. Dillar.

715
00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:02,680
Speaker 1: Okay, right, so above the fault, below the fault. These

716
00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:03,440
Speaker 1: are all a one.

717
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:05,839
Speaker 2: O bets, oh, these were all a one.

718
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:06,480
Speaker 1: Yeah.

719
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:10,279
Speaker 2: So I think my mom was below the fold. She was, yeah,

720
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:12,440
Speaker 2: she was blow the full she was yeah, but she

721
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:14,000
Speaker 2: was a one. She was a one.

722
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:15,759
Speaker 1: Yeh yeah, which is great. I mean, it's great to

723
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:19,200
Speaker 1: have a mom who's on a one. It's cool, Babe

724
00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:21,959
Speaker 1: Ruth above the vault or below the fault, above the fault.

725
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:26,280
Speaker 1: He's above Jackie Robinson above the fault, below the fault.

726
00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:29,480
Speaker 1: And that I think is the most egregious error here. Incredible,

727
00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:31,600
Speaker 1: that's pretty bad. Yeah, that they put in below the fault.

728
00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:32,680
Speaker 2: What year was that?

729
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:35,960
Speaker 1: That was in nineteen seventy two, October twenty fifth.

730
00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:39,920
Speaker 2: I'm sure it was still a pretty all white news room. Maybe,

731
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:40,480
Speaker 2: I don't know.

732
00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:43,680
Speaker 1: I mean, there's more sensitivity I would, I would think now,

733
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:47,960
Speaker 1: and that Jackie Robinson, who was such a Titanic figure,

734
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:51,280
Speaker 1: would be above the fault, okay, Judy Garland.

735
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:54,160
Speaker 2: Above the fault, below the fault. Really no, it's crazy.

736
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:56,719
Speaker 1: June twenty third, nineteen sixty nine. She obviously died the

737
00:42:56,760 --> 00:42:57,240
Speaker 1: day before.

738
00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:00,200
Speaker 2: I cannot believe that she was well. Where was Stone World?

739
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:04,680
Speaker 1: Wasn't mentioned now the New York Times, I mean a

740
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:07,600
Speaker 1: different days. I thank you, but she's below the fault,

741
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:09,400
Speaker 1: luci O ball.

742
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:14,080
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, if they messed up with Judy Garland,

743
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:15,279
Speaker 2: I'd say, below the fold.

744
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:21,120
Speaker 1: You're absolutely right about that. Richard Rogers, great composer, below

745
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:27,240
Speaker 1: the fault, above the fold. Wow, Oscar Hammerstein, the lyricist

746
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:30,200
Speaker 1: below the fold, below the fold, which is really this

747
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:31,560
Speaker 1: is like part of of what I think. It's like

748
00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:36,520
Speaker 1: the New York Times, long running anti lyricist bias's.

749
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:40,799
Speaker 2: Always there, always identify that it's true, and I'm that's

750
00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:41,800
Speaker 2: going to be my cause.

751
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:49,239
Speaker 1: I inherited my love of obituaries from my father. He

752
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:51,520
Speaker 1: always said that the obits were his favorite part of

753
00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:55,359
Speaker 1: the newspaper. It's probably because my father had a deep

754
00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:59,560
Speaker 1: appreciation for the romance of life. I know that sounds strange,

755
00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:02,880
Speaker 1: but a good O bit captures that the highs and

756
00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:05,720
Speaker 1: lows of a person's life in just a few inches.

757
00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:08,879
Speaker 1: To put it another way, a good oh bit has

758
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:12,320
Speaker 1: the dramatic sweep of a movie trailer for an Oscar

759
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:16,600
Speaker 1: winning biopeck, the kind of movie that Golden Age director

760
00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:19,239
Speaker 1: Cecil B. De Mill would make all.

761
00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:21,160
Speaker 8: Right, mister demil, I'm ready for my close up.

762
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:25,680
Speaker 1: Incidentally, Cecil B. De Mill died on the same day

763
00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:35,520
Speaker 1: as Carl Switzer aka Alfalfa from The Little Rascals.

764
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:37,480
Speaker 3: How do you ask that warrior?

765
00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:42,120
Speaker 13: Thank you very much. You're not so bad yourself.

766
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:45,120
Speaker 2: I would like to watch The Little Rascals again to

767
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:47,600
Speaker 2: see if it holds up, because I still don't remember

768
00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:51,000
Speaker 2: what the whole concept was. Who were these little rascals

769
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:52,960
Speaker 2: and where they how do they get that way?

770
00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:56,640
Speaker 1: A great question Anderson and One will hopefully address on

771
00:44:56,680 --> 00:44:59,520
Speaker 1: a future episode. But for now, let's talk about a

772
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:04,120
Speaker 1: pair of Hollywood royalty who both departed this realm on

773
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:09,080
Speaker 1: October tenth, nineteen eighty five. Yule Brenner, famous as the

774
00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:10,279
Speaker 1: King and the King and.

775
00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:12,799
Speaker 15: I, when I shall said, you shall sit, and I

776
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:15,719
Speaker 15: shall neil, you shall nil at sea.

777
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:22,000
Speaker 1: And Orson Wells, the director and star of Citizen Kane.

778
00:45:28,719 --> 00:45:31,480
Speaker 12: Orson Wells, died of natural causes at his home in Hollywood.

779
00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:32,240
Speaker 7: He was seventy.

780
00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:34,680
Speaker 12: And El Brenner died here in New York after a

781
00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:36,000
Speaker 12: long battle with lung cancer.

782
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:37,279
Speaker 7: He was sixty five.

783
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:40,840
Speaker 2: I met Eul Brenner as a kid. I loved the

784
00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:43,279
Speaker 2: King and I and I loved Eel Brenner and being

785
00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:46,280
Speaker 2: in his dressing room and him going like etcetera, etcetera,

786
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:49,040
Speaker 2: and the whole thing. He was Yule Brenner like. It

787
00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:51,880
Speaker 2: was exactly what you would want eul Brenner to do, right,

788
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:54,600
Speaker 2: he was the King on stage and off, on stage

789
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:57,319
Speaker 2: and off. Incredible. But I think my I mean, my

790
00:45:57,400 --> 00:45:59,640
Speaker 2: mom went out to Hollywood when she was like sixteen

791
00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:03,920
Speaker 2: seven and Shenner. She absolutely would have known that you'l Brenner.

792
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:05,600
Speaker 1: Yes, did she know Orson Wells?

793
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:09,440
Speaker 2: So there is a rumor that my mom had an

794
00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:12,280
Speaker 2: affair with Orson Wells, which I just read online.

795
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:15,760
Speaker 1: Can I ask, if your mother did have an affair

796
00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:19,200
Speaker 1: with Orson Wells, was it Citizen Kane, Orson Wells or

797
00:46:19,239 --> 00:46:20,440
Speaker 1: Paul Mason Wine.

798
00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:23,840
Speaker 2: Outweels It would have been Citizen Kane. I mean, please,

799
00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:26,040
Speaker 2: My mom had an affair with Marlon Brando, and it

800
00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:28,080
Speaker 2: was like on the waterfront of Marlon Brando, wasn't It

801
00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:32,360
Speaker 2: wasn't apocalypse now, Marlon. I mean, give my mom some credit.

802
00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:35,799
Speaker 2: So Orson Wells and Yuel Brenner died on the same day.

803
00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:39,520
Speaker 1: Yes, Now there's a split on TV. Yule Brenner got

804
00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:42,799
Speaker 1: top billing. Okay, in print, and this sort of makes

805
00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:45,680
Speaker 1: sense to me. Orson Wells very much got top billing

806
00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:48,920
Speaker 1: there because I think in print they were honoring sort

807
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:51,040
Speaker 1: of the importance of Orson Wells, even though it had

808
00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:54,840
Speaker 1: been decades, I think forty five years since Citizen Kane.

809
00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:57,480
Speaker 1: They felt it was important to honor that. But yul

810
00:46:57,520 --> 00:46:59,920
Speaker 1: Brenner had been touring very recently. I brought my grandmother

811
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:02,319
Speaker 1: actually to see his very last tour in the King

812
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:05,400
Speaker 1: and I in Washington, DC, and he'd had a sixty

813
00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:08,120
Speaker 1: minutes profile and I don't know if you remember this.

814
00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:12,440
Speaker 1: He didn't add that aired posthumously.

815
00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:17,560
Speaker 2: First about cancer ladies and gentlemen, the late Yule Brenner.

816
00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:21,840
Speaker 15: I really wanted to make a commercial when I discovered

817
00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:25,360
Speaker 15: that I was that sick and my time was so limited,

818
00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:29,719
Speaker 15: I wanted to make that commercials it says simply Now

819
00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:32,600
Speaker 15: that I'm gone, I tell you don't smoke.

820
00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:33,480
Speaker 1: Do you remember that.

821
00:47:33,560 --> 00:47:35,200
Speaker 2: I do remember that. I do remember that.

822
00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:35,879
Speaker 1: That was a big deal.

823
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:36,640
Speaker 6: Yeah.

824
00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:41,959
Speaker 2: This is what's interesting to me. The people alive would

825
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:44,799
Speaker 2: have remembered, probably foremost in their minds about Orson welles

826
00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:47,200
Speaker 2: at that time. The pal Masan wine add.

827
00:47:47,360 --> 00:47:52,560
Speaker 15: The taste is smooth, flavorful, delicious. Porma San wines taste

828
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:54,360
Speaker 15: so good because they made with such care.

829
00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:57,360
Speaker 2: What Farmasan said nearly a century ago.

830
00:47:57,360 --> 00:47:58,280
Speaker 10: Is still true today.

831
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:02,120
Speaker 15: We will sell wine the first time.

832
00:48:03,239 --> 00:48:06,040
Speaker 1: We will sell no wine before its time. Always annoyed

833
00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:08,920
Speaker 1: me because it's a false rhyme. Wine and time.

834
00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:09,399
Speaker 2: Do not rhyme.

835
00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:12,120
Speaker 16: That's what bothered you about it. Kind of did well,

836
00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:17,120
Speaker 16: that's what bothered okay. As a childer child, I loved

837
00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:22,480
Speaker 16: Paumas on wine. May sixteenth, nineteen ninety Sammy Davis Junior

838
00:48:23,280 --> 00:48:24,360
Speaker 16: and Jim Henson.

839
00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:29,000
Speaker 2: Wow, see that's that's big.

840
00:48:29,360 --> 00:48:32,359
Speaker 12: The memories of Sammy Davis Junior and Jim Henson topped

841
00:48:32,360 --> 00:48:35,240
Speaker 12: the news this morning. The head of Henson's production company

842
00:48:35,239 --> 00:48:38,040
Speaker 12: says Henson took our breath away as a talent and

843
00:48:38,120 --> 00:48:42,479
Speaker 12: provided laughter and love as a friend. Frank Sinatra calls

844
00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:45,319
Speaker 12: Sammy Davis Junior a class act and the best friend

845
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:46,040
Speaker 12: the man could have.

846
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:49,960
Speaker 1: They're like the Adage and Jefferson of entertainment.

847
00:48:50,080 --> 00:48:52,960
Speaker 2: That is big. Sammy Davis Junior had been sick for

848
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:53,760
Speaker 2: a while, hadn't.

849
00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:56,320
Speaker 1: He had been sick, and they'd had this really amazing

850
00:48:56,520 --> 00:49:01,239
Speaker 1: special on television where all these stars paid tribute to him,

851
00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:03,880
Speaker 1: and Gregory Hines got up and tap dance with him

852
00:49:03,880 --> 00:49:05,600
Speaker 1: at the end. He wasn't expected to because he was

853
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:09,280
Speaker 1: so sick. And then Jim Henson was a shocker.

854
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:12,120
Speaker 2: I don't I don't remember him. I mean I remember

855
00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:14,160
Speaker 2: his death. I don't remember what it was.

856
00:49:14,239 --> 00:49:17,319
Speaker 1: It was a pneumonia. I think for a time people thought, oh,

857
00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:19,799
Speaker 1: it was just a euphemism for AIDS. No, he died

858
00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:20,440
Speaker 1: in pneumonia.

859
00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:23,960
Speaker 2: Wow. I mean, what incredible contributions, both.

860
00:49:24,239 --> 00:49:28,520
Speaker 1: Really amazing, really amazing, and they were given I think

861
00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:30,920
Speaker 1: appropriately side by side.

862
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:35,960
Speaker 2: That makes total sense just their creative output. And Jim

863
00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:37,840
Speaker 2: Henson obviously the Muppets some.

864
00:49:38,320 --> 00:49:47,239
Speaker 1: They will find Lorraine convection, the lovers, but dreamers and me,

865
00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:52,520
Speaker 1: you know, it's amazing to me that Sammy Davis Junior

866
00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:55,200
Speaker 1: never guest starred on the Muppets.

867
00:49:55,800 --> 00:49:57,120
Speaker 2: Really is that amazing?

868
00:49:57,160 --> 00:49:57,399
Speaker 12: Wow?

869
00:49:57,520 --> 00:49:59,879
Speaker 1: I mean he was builders for the Muppets.

870
00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:08,279
Speaker 9: Black and Birred with our very red, the basic hand

871
00:50:08,320 --> 00:50:08,960
Speaker 9: black of luck.

872
00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:11,239
Speaker 14: Whitney animals talk, Britney.

873
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:13,120
Speaker 2: Animals, grunt squeak.

874
00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:28,120
Speaker 1: This one writty animals, and they did not. At the

875
00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:31,920
Speaker 1: top of this episode, we mentioned Anderson's podcast All There

876
00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:36,560
Speaker 1: Is On it, he explores the importance of grieving. We've

877
00:50:36,600 --> 00:50:39,400
Speaker 1: been having some fun chatting about the coverage of bold

878
00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:43,560
Speaker 1: faced names when they pass on, but Anderson knows all

879
00:50:43,680 --> 00:50:46,520
Speaker 1: too well what it's like to be part of the story.

880
00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:50,160
Speaker 1: When he was twenty one, his older brother Carter took

881
00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:50,880
Speaker 1: his own life.

882
00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:55,000
Speaker 2: When my brother died, I do recall there being I

883
00:50:55,040 --> 00:50:57,680
Speaker 2: think it was a front page with somebody else's photo

884
00:50:57,800 --> 00:50:59,840
Speaker 2: on it as him. I don't know if it was

885
00:50:59,880 --> 00:51:01,359
Speaker 2: the hoster the daily news.

886
00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:04,319
Speaker 1: And could you could you all even absorb that? Could

887
00:51:04,320 --> 00:51:06,319
Speaker 1: you absorb it and not be outraged?

888
00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:09,360
Speaker 2: Or I mean I didn't. We didn't have any you know,

889
00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:11,920
Speaker 2: we were sort of you know, there were like reporters

890
00:51:11,960 --> 00:51:14,160
Speaker 2: camped outside the house. And obviously my brother's death was

891
00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:17,200
Speaker 2: very public because he jumped off the balcony of our apartment,

892
00:51:18,280 --> 00:51:21,520
Speaker 2: but we weren't looking at newspapers. Somebody who was coming

893
00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:25,080
Speaker 2: to visit had, I mean stupidly, had brought in a

894
00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:27,400
Speaker 2: paper and I just happened to see it, like sitting

895
00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:33,520
Speaker 2: out in the foyer. But uh, yeah, I just remember

896
00:51:34,280 --> 00:51:36,480
Speaker 2: I just remember they had there was the wrong picture.

897
00:51:36,520 --> 00:51:42,520
Speaker 1: You know, it's in the constellation of terribleness, you know,

898
00:51:42,560 --> 00:51:46,080
Speaker 1: associated with this. That's one terrible thing that the wrong

899
00:51:46,160 --> 00:51:46,759
Speaker 1: picture does.

900
00:51:46,680 --> 00:51:48,960
Speaker 2: That have any meaning, that has no meaning, has no meaning.

901
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:53,520
Speaker 2: I mean, those were all very obviously dramatic, silicious headlines

902
00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:57,440
Speaker 2: about you know, my brother or about his death. So

903
00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:02,000
Speaker 2: it's not something like an obituary that you would want

904
00:52:02,080 --> 00:52:05,160
Speaker 2: to read. And you know that also, he was so

905
00:52:05,280 --> 00:52:07,920
Speaker 2: young that there wasn't a track record for you know,

906
00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:10,360
Speaker 2: anybody to write kind of an obituary of you know,

907
00:52:10,400 --> 00:52:12,960
Speaker 2: it was unpleasant to have to feel like you're sort

908
00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:15,680
Speaker 2: of in this cocoon and somewhat under siege. And then

909
00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:19,520
Speaker 2: and then we went to the funeral home, my mom

910
00:52:19,600 --> 00:52:24,960
Speaker 2: and I to view his body, and there were photography

911
00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:28,400
Speaker 2: were camera people camped outside with of course Frankie Campbell

912
00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:30,520
Speaker 2: funeral home, and we were trying to go on a

913
00:52:30,640 --> 00:52:33,600
Speaker 2: side entrance and they followed us, and I remember the

914
00:52:33,719 --> 00:52:38,160
Speaker 2: time hating the camera people, just feeling very protective on

915
00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:41,320
Speaker 2: my mom. And the weird thing is, I don't know

916
00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:44,840
Speaker 2: I've mentioned of this ever, there was a viewing my

917
00:52:44,920 --> 00:52:48,480
Speaker 2: brother's body at the Campbell funeral home, and we had

918
00:52:48,600 --> 00:52:50,560
Speaker 2: really no way. I mean, we were all, you know,

919
00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:54,000
Speaker 2: just like shell shocked, and there was a line of

920
00:52:54,080 --> 00:52:56,719
Speaker 2: I don't know, hundreds of people and we really had

921
00:52:56,800 --> 00:52:59,399
Speaker 2: no way to police it. Anybody could have gotten that line,

922
00:52:59,440 --> 00:53:04,200
Speaker 2: and my mom greeted each person, but I realized there's

923
00:53:04,320 --> 00:53:06,719
Speaker 2: just random people on this line. So I spent the

924
00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:10,080
Speaker 2: entire time going through the line like pre greeting people

925
00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:13,560
Speaker 2: and weeding people out. And there was one guy who

926
00:53:13,719 --> 00:53:16,600
Speaker 2: got within like three people at my mom with a

927
00:53:16,680 --> 00:53:20,200
Speaker 2: cover that he wanted her to sign the front page.

928
00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:23,160
Speaker 1: Oh my god, and what did you do? You remember today?

929
00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:26,640
Speaker 2: I escorted him out, I ushered him away, and you.

930
00:53:26,840 --> 00:53:29,799
Speaker 1: Kind of ushered him away. This is perhaps a little

931
00:53:29,840 --> 00:53:31,880
Speaker 1: too logical, but do you think part of it was

932
00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:35,640
Speaker 1: you just lost your brother, you weren't going to lose

933
00:53:35,680 --> 00:53:38,680
Speaker 1: your mother because some lunatic was in the line, or yeah.

934
00:53:38,719 --> 00:53:41,160
Speaker 2: I mean I was always very protected my mom, and

935
00:53:41,400 --> 00:53:46,040
Speaker 2: certainly in that situation, you know, I felt very much

936
00:53:46,200 --> 00:53:50,040
Speaker 2: like we are under siege, and this is what I

937
00:53:50,120 --> 00:53:52,239
Speaker 2: need to do, and there's really no one else who

938
00:53:52,280 --> 00:53:53,800
Speaker 2: can do it because there's nobody else who kind of

939
00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:56,920
Speaker 2: knows everybody that my mom knows, and I always been

940
00:53:57,080 --> 00:53:59,840
Speaker 2: like my mom's gatekeeper. So I did a study in

941
00:53:59,840 --> 00:54:01,840
Speaker 2: my mom. From the time I was very little, I

942
00:54:01,920 --> 00:54:04,120
Speaker 2: used to read our journals like I would listen in

943
00:54:04,200 --> 00:54:06,840
Speaker 2: on phone calls. I wanted to know what was happening.

944
00:54:07,320 --> 00:54:09,000
Speaker 2: So yeah, I policed the line.

945
00:54:08,880 --> 00:54:10,880
Speaker 1: So it's I mean, it's almost as there was literally

946
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:12,799
Speaker 1: no one else who could do that job.

947
00:54:13,160 --> 00:54:15,680
Speaker 2: Who was yeah or nobody. I mean, there was nobody

948
00:54:15,800 --> 00:54:18,080
Speaker 2: doing it, and I didn't feel like there was anybody

949
00:54:18,080 --> 00:54:22,200
Speaker 2: who could really Yeah. I just didn't feel there's anybody

950
00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:22,840
Speaker 2: could really do it.

951
00:54:23,360 --> 00:54:27,799
Speaker 1: Anderson says that terrible chapter of his own life fundamentally

952
00:54:27,960 --> 00:54:30,359
Speaker 1: shaped the way he approaches his work.

953
00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:33,040
Speaker 2: It always stuck with me because I know what it's

954
00:54:33,080 --> 00:54:34,359
Speaker 2: like to be on the other end of the camera

955
00:54:34,440 --> 00:54:36,960
Speaker 2: lens in those situations, and it's really impacted the way

956
00:54:37,040 --> 00:54:41,560
Speaker 2: I interact with you know, if there's been a school

957
00:54:41,600 --> 00:54:45,680
Speaker 2: shooting and I'm talking to or approaching somebody, you know,

958
00:54:45,840 --> 00:54:48,960
Speaker 2: I'm very sensitive about I know what it's like to

959
00:54:49,000 --> 00:54:52,480
Speaker 2: feel too, you know, in the lowest moment of your life,

960
00:54:52,520 --> 00:54:54,759
Speaker 2: to have cameras in your face. I would rather not

961
00:54:54,960 --> 00:55:00,680
Speaker 2: get the shot than do something that is intrusive, inappropriate.

962
00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:03,600
Speaker 2: I don't ask people how they feel when you know,

963
00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:07,279
Speaker 2: which is always an awful question. And so it's yeah,

964
00:55:07,440 --> 00:55:10,920
Speaker 2: it's impacted the way I interact with people in those moments.

965
00:55:21,800 --> 00:55:24,440
Speaker 1: So, Anderson, on this episode, you and I have been

966
00:55:24,480 --> 00:55:27,200
Speaker 1: talking about famous people who died on the same day.

967
00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:30,600
Speaker 1: I have to tell you, whenever I bring up this

968
00:55:30,760 --> 00:55:35,720
Speaker 1: particular subject to people, and it happens occasionally, they almost

969
00:55:35,920 --> 00:55:40,399
Speaker 1: always find it interesting, I mean even fascinating, and they're

970
00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:43,520
Speaker 1: sort of tickled by it. Why is this interesting?

971
00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:46,520
Speaker 2: I mean, why does anyone read obituaries? We all have

972
00:55:46,600 --> 00:55:50,360
Speaker 2: associations with these people, and so I mean not with

973
00:55:50,600 --> 00:55:53,080
Speaker 2: some of the historical figures, but you know, we all

974
00:55:53,239 --> 00:55:57,600
Speaker 2: have our own memories of Charles Manson or who are

975
00:55:57,719 --> 00:55:59,920
Speaker 2: Della Reese? Who you know, however it may be, who

976
00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:02,400
Speaker 2: whatever it may be, and we feel connected to them.

977
00:56:02,400 --> 00:56:04,319
Speaker 2: I mean, that's the interesting thing about celebrity. You feel

978
00:56:04,360 --> 00:56:07,399
Speaker 2: you have a relationship with these people, and so there

979
00:56:07,520 --> 00:56:12,000
Speaker 2: is this sadness when somebody you you know, when Sam

980
00:56:12,120 --> 00:56:15,279
Speaker 2: the Butcher dies, you know, it brings back all those

981
00:56:15,320 --> 00:56:17,840
Speaker 2: memories of your kid, and you're watching it and Alice

982
00:56:17,920 --> 00:56:20,240
Speaker 2: and Sam and the stupid jokes and the whole family

983
00:56:20,320 --> 00:56:24,319
Speaker 2: and those experiences. You're married and right, and who you're

984
00:56:24,360 --> 00:56:24,960
Speaker 2: watching it with?

985
00:56:25,920 --> 00:56:26,640
Speaker 12: Sam, Are you.

986
00:56:26,760 --> 00:56:28,640
Speaker 14: Going to kiss me under those stars?

987
00:56:30,200 --> 00:56:31,239
Speaker 10: I'm sure i'mna try.

988
00:56:33,160 --> 00:56:34,759
Speaker 2: And this is one of the things that that fascinates

989
00:56:34,840 --> 00:56:39,160
Speaker 2: me is, you know, the rituals of mourning and the

990
00:56:39,280 --> 00:56:42,440
Speaker 2: rituals of grief. We don't have communal rituals really anymore,

991
00:56:42,520 --> 00:56:46,160
Speaker 2: and so there's a privacy to grieving now, and it's

992
00:56:46,200 --> 00:56:47,719
Speaker 2: done behind closed doors.

993
00:56:47,520 --> 00:56:51,800
Speaker 1: And so and when more than one notable person dies

994
00:56:51,880 --> 00:56:54,200
Speaker 1: on the same day, it almost makes you think about

995
00:56:54,239 --> 00:56:57,440
Speaker 1: why people are remembered and how they're remembered.

996
00:56:57,320 --> 00:57:00,759
Speaker 2: And also just how how mysterious all of this is,

997
00:57:01,280 --> 00:57:05,440
Speaker 2: you know, how life and death and you know, no

998
00:57:05,560 --> 00:57:08,520
Speaker 2: matter how high and mighty somebody is, in the end,

999
00:57:08,719 --> 00:57:12,000
Speaker 2: we are all, you know, we all become dust, and

1000
00:57:12,520 --> 00:57:16,840
Speaker 2: everybody we know will die, and we will die. We

1001
00:57:16,960 --> 00:57:18,840
Speaker 2: all think we're the first ones to like face the

1002
00:57:18,920 --> 00:57:21,360
Speaker 2: troubles that we face and to you know, have the

1003
00:57:21,720 --> 00:57:23,960
Speaker 2: issues that we have, But there have been generations of

1004
00:57:24,000 --> 00:57:27,360
Speaker 2: people before us who have had the exact same problems

1005
00:57:27,440 --> 00:57:29,880
Speaker 2: and the exact same worries and sleepless nights and all

1006
00:57:29,960 --> 00:57:32,840
Speaker 2: that and I take great comfort in that and to

1007
00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:37,320
Speaker 2: know that no problem I face hasn't already been faced

1008
00:57:37,400 --> 00:57:40,520
Speaker 2: by generations of people before me, And whatever sadness I

1009
00:57:40,680 --> 00:57:43,840
Speaker 2: feel has been felt by generations of people who have

1010
00:57:43,920 --> 00:57:47,760
Speaker 2: experienced far worse than I will ever experience and survived it.

1011
00:57:52,360 --> 00:57:54,080
Speaker 1: By the way, did you ever meet Michael Jackson or

1012
00:57:54,160 --> 00:57:54,800
Speaker 1: Faara Faucet?

1013
00:57:55,280 --> 00:57:59,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I did meet Michael Jackson. I went to the

1014
00:58:00,160 --> 00:58:03,160
Speaker 2: premiere of The Whiz with my mom and my brother.

1015
00:58:03,880 --> 00:58:08,880
Speaker 2: And remember if I met him at the theater or

1016
00:58:09,320 --> 00:58:12,480
Speaker 2: if it was afterwards at Studio fifty four, where my

1017
00:58:12,560 --> 00:58:16,520
Speaker 2: mom took me at age eleven, But it was very

1018
00:58:16,600 --> 00:58:18,720
Speaker 2: distinct to me because I didn't really know who Michael

1019
00:58:18,760 --> 00:58:21,280
Speaker 2: Jackson was other than the guy in The Wiz. I

1020
00:58:21,480 --> 00:58:24,800
Speaker 2: wasn't really much of a music listener as a kid,

1021
00:58:25,480 --> 00:58:28,040
Speaker 2: but I remember being a Studio fifty four and watching

1022
00:58:28,120 --> 00:58:30,920
Speaker 2: him dance, and I turned to the person next to me.

1023
00:58:31,000 --> 00:58:32,800
Speaker 2: I mean, I said, he's really good at that. He

1024
00:58:32,840 --> 00:58:33,560
Speaker 2: should pursue it.

1025
00:58:34,880 --> 00:58:35,840
Speaker 1: You know how to pick him.

1026
00:58:36,200 --> 00:58:38,840
Speaker 2: I like to take some credit for you know, he

1027
00:58:39,240 --> 00:58:40,080
Speaker 2: chose to pursue it.

1028
00:58:40,360 --> 00:58:43,360
Speaker 1: He needed that extra encourage that A.

1029
00:58:43,320 --> 00:58:44,920
Speaker 2: Little question from eleven year old me.

1030
00:58:49,080 --> 00:58:52,640
Speaker 1: I truly hope you enjoyed this Mobituary. May I ask

1031
00:58:52,720 --> 00:58:55,640
Speaker 1: you to please rate and review our podcast. You can

1032
00:58:55,680 --> 00:58:59,640
Speaker 1: also follow Mobituaries on Facebook and Instagram, and you can

1033
00:58:59,680 --> 00:59:03,280
Speaker 1: follow me on the social media platform formerly known as Twitter.

1034
00:59:03,600 --> 00:59:08,280
Speaker 1: At Morocca hear all new episodes of Mobituaries every Wednesday

1035
00:59:08,360 --> 00:59:12,479
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts, and check out Mobituaries Great

1036
00:59:12,600 --> 00:59:16,120
Speaker 1: Lives Worth Reliving, the New York Times best selling book,

1037
00:59:16,400 --> 00:59:21,640
Speaker 1: available in paperback and audiobook. This episode of Mobituaries was

1038
00:59:21,720 --> 00:59:25,800
Speaker 1: produced by Aaron Schrank. Our team of producers also includes

1039
00:59:26,120 --> 00:59:30,800
Speaker 1: Hazel Brian and me Bo Raka, with engineering by Josh Hahn.

1040
00:59:31,120 --> 00:59:34,560
Speaker 1: Our theme music is written by Daniel Hart. Our archival

1041
00:59:34,600 --> 00:59:40,120
Speaker 1: producer is Jamie Benson. Mobituary's production company is meon Hum Media.

1042
00:59:40,840 --> 00:59:45,280
Speaker 1: Indispensable support from Alan Pang and everyone at CBS News

1043
00:59:45,400 --> 00:59:51,360
Speaker 1: Radio Special thanks to Steve Razis, Rand Morrison and Alberto Robina.

1044
00:59:51,960 --> 00:59:57,800
Speaker 1: Executive producers for Mobituaries include Megan Marcus, Jonathan Hirsch, and Morocca.

1045
00:59:58,240 --> 01:00:00,760
Speaker 1: The series is created by Yours Truly

1046
01:00:13,920 --> 01:00:13,960
Speaker 12: H