1
00:00:01,680 --> 00:00:04,480
Speaker 1: Hey, guys, welcome to Greatest Escapes Show, bringing you the

2
00:00:04,519 --> 00:00:07,880
Speaker 1: wildest true escape stories of all time. Now today we're

3
00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:10,879
Speaker 1: headed to the nineteen sixties in London for some wild

4
00:00:10,920 --> 00:00:14,040
Speaker 1: break ins and a legendary breakout by the first woman

5
00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:19,160
Speaker 1: to scale the walls of London's Holloway Prison. I'm Ardro

6
00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:21,920
Speaker 1: Gastro and I'm here with the podcasting world's number one

7
00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:36,040
Speaker 1: gossip queen, Kelsey McKinney. Wow, I am so excited to

8
00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:39,279
Speaker 1: have you as our guests this week. Guys. This is

9
00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:42,400
Speaker 1: Kelsey mckinnee. And I'm sorry that it's hard for me

10
00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:43,880
Speaker 1: to pronounce English names.

11
00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:46,480
Speaker 2: Oh it's okay. I'm from the South, so the ease

12
00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:47,879
Speaker 2: and the eyes make the same sound to me.

13
00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:51,640
Speaker 1: Oh my god. Here, So I love I love your

14
00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:54,600
Speaker 1: podcast Normal Gossip, and I gotta tell you also, I'm

15
00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:58,120
Speaker 1: so jealous of your ease with the English language and

16
00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:00,160
Speaker 1: how you just like have just this wide bread that's

17
00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:01,720
Speaker 1: a vocabulary, I'm telling you, Oh.

18
00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:03,640
Speaker 2: My god, thank you. I feel like I have a

19
00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:06,679
Speaker 2: small vocabulary, so I really appreciate this compliment, which I

20
00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:07,839
Speaker 2: have never received before.

21
00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:10,440
Speaker 1: So for our guests that don't know your podcast, with

22
00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:12,240
Speaker 1: which they should can you give us a little bit

23
00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:12,880
Speaker 1: about what it is?

24
00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:16,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely so. I host a podcast called Normal Gossip

25
00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:19,240
Speaker 2: where we take gossip from the world that listeners send

26
00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:21,480
Speaker 2: in and then we anonymize it, and then I bring

27
00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:23,600
Speaker 2: on a guest and I tell it to them, and

28
00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:25,240
Speaker 2: so kind of the goal is to make it sound

29
00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:26,920
Speaker 2: like you're overhearing someone in a bar.

30
00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:28,679
Speaker 1: Oh my god. And I tell you why I'm such

31
00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:30,880
Speaker 1: a fan of it because in one Amala, where I'm from,

32
00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:33,960
Speaker 1: there is a thing so so gossip and what Demala

33
00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:37,920
Speaker 1: slang is called cheese me. And when you like put

34
00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:41,920
Speaker 1: out like guys cheesse me on the like group WhatsApp chat,

35
00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:45,800
Speaker 1: people go fucking nutey stop they like the doctor start

36
00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:48,560
Speaker 1: op stop operating, fucking people on the table. They're like,

37
00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:50,040
Speaker 1: oh my god, oh my god, my god, tell me.

38
00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:52,640
Speaker 1: And the cheesemade like the juicy heard the cheesemade like

39
00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:55,760
Speaker 1: the more like fanfare there is for it, like it's

40
00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:57,920
Speaker 1: a it's a national sport. You have to be prepared

41
00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:01,280
Speaker 1: to come correct with it. It's always, you know, well

42
00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:03,880
Speaker 1: good nature and it's never like gossip being to like

43
00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:06,559
Speaker 1: destroy somebody. Yeah, but it is just so juicy because

44
00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:09,520
Speaker 1: it's like a Oneama city is like a big small town, right,

45
00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:12,720
Speaker 1: So if you date somebody, it's very likely that they

46
00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:15,359
Speaker 1: dated the cousin of your friend and they know each

47
00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:17,120
Speaker 1: other and they know a story about him, and so

48
00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:19,120
Speaker 1: cheese may it's just like just picture all of us.

49
00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:21,440
Speaker 1: The analogy would be all of us down by the river,

50
00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:23,760
Speaker 1: like just Washington clothes and like turning too. Did you

51
00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:26,480
Speaker 1: hear about the cheese me? You know? So that's why

52
00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:27,959
Speaker 1: I appreciate your show so much.

53
00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:30,640
Speaker 2: Great, I'm moving. Guatemala is a city to the top

54
00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:33,760
Speaker 2: of my cities to visit list. Based on this conversation alone,

55
00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:34,359
Speaker 2: thank you.

56
00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:40,720
Speaker 1: They will all be like your English is fantastic. So

57
00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:42,480
Speaker 1: I got to ask you, do you do you have

58
00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:44,480
Speaker 1: something that you consider your greatest escape. Yeah.

59
00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:45,960
Speaker 2: So I grew up in Texas and I grew up

60
00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:49,600
Speaker 2: in a very evangelical household, which was not great, I

61
00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:53,200
Speaker 2: would say for me in general. And I was thinking, like, Okay,

62
00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:55,160
Speaker 2: do I talk about like going to college or moving

63
00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:57,320
Speaker 2: to the East Coast or like what do I do?

64
00:02:57,440 --> 00:03:00,320
Speaker 2: And I think, actually, the greatest escape I have ever

65
00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:02,680
Speaker 2: made is that my sophomore year of high school, I

66
00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:05,680
Speaker 2: switched high schools. So like I had been going to

67
00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:09,040
Speaker 2: this like giant public high school, like eight hundred kids

68
00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:13,080
Speaker 2: in a grade, huge, like football culture, all this stuff,

69
00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:14,640
Speaker 2: and I was like, I can't really find people to

70
00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:17,000
Speaker 2: be friends with here. And my sophomore year I switched

71
00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:19,600
Speaker 2: to an art's only high school and it was like

72
00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:22,480
Speaker 2: a tiny school and everyone only cared about art, and

73
00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:25,480
Speaker 2: I was like, this is bliss. And so I created

74
00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:28,520
Speaker 2: an escape hatch for myself from the place where I

75
00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:28,880
Speaker 2: grew up.

76
00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:31,040
Speaker 1: Gosh, I would have did. I would have loved that.

77
00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:32,639
Speaker 1: Like I had to pretend to care give a shit

78
00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:35,400
Speaker 1: about soccer for like five years in my high school life.

79
00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:37,520
Speaker 1: I was like, oh the fucking oh yeah, you hit

80
00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:39,360
Speaker 1: the ball and then you run out. Oh man, that's crazy.

81
00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:41,120
Speaker 2: I love forwards for sure.

82
00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:48,000
Speaker 1: Yeah that's right. Let me tell you about our escape

83
00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:50,880
Speaker 1: for today, and Ben gave me a little intro. Oh

84
00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:57,680
Speaker 1: my god, thank you Ben. So today we start with

85
00:03:57,760 --> 00:04:00,880
Speaker 1: a call to the London Office, the London Police Office.

86
00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:06,600
Speaker 1: That's what everyone sounds like. It's August tenth, nineteen sixty.

87
00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:07,200
Speaker 1: Are you with me?

88
00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:08,280
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm with you.

89
00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:10,600
Speaker 1: They pick up the line. Yes, they get a tip

90
00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:15,200
Speaker 1: the notorious fugitive. So we progul and spotted at a

91
00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:17,479
Speaker 1: hotel at the Chelsea area of West London. Do you

92
00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:17,760
Speaker 1: know her?

93
00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:18,400
Speaker 2: Who is she?

94
00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:20,320
Speaker 1: No? Oh, I'll tell you, let me tell you.

95
00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:22,520
Speaker 2: So it just felt like I should gasp.

96
00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:24,960
Speaker 1: I got scared. Oh I love it, thank you. So

97
00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:27,880
Speaker 1: it's an upscale neighborhood, okay. Everybody's having a good time.

98
00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:29,800
Speaker 1: They're like looking their noses out of people. It's a

99
00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:32,320
Speaker 1: kind of place where Zoe would have fit in, right

100
00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:34,719
Speaker 1: put right in. She was a woman with an air

101
00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:38,279
Speaker 1: of luxury. Okay. Old photos show her decked out and jewelry,

102
00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:42,400
Speaker 1: cocktail in hand and a perfect blonde quaff Ooh what

103
00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:42,880
Speaker 1: a word?

104
00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:43,919
Speaker 2: French?

105
00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:48,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, French. Perhaps that gives her a Marilyn Monroe kind

106
00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:51,200
Speaker 1: of look, so like, go off Maryland and Queen. She's

107
00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:52,960
Speaker 1: having the time of her life. It's a sixties.

108
00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:55,880
Speaker 2: Yes, I'm seeing like red lipstick. I'm seeing a lot

109
00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:58,400
Speaker 2: of like flowing clothing, and.

110
00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:00,880
Speaker 1: I love that the cocktail in the hand is so specific.

111
00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:03,800
Speaker 1: They're like everybody was like complete alcoholics, but nobody was

112
00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:06,480
Speaker 1: there saying anything. They're like, no, they're just friendly kids.

113
00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:09,599
Speaker 1: So the police have been hunting Zoe pro Gol for

114
00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:12,840
Speaker 1: weeks right, not well, not well, she was just at

115
00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:15,760
Speaker 1: having cocktails. So when they heard that she had been spotted,

116
00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:18,479
Speaker 1: they sprang into action. They raced to the hotel and

117
00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:21,320
Speaker 1: they burst inside following the description that they had gotten

118
00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:24,279
Speaker 1: over the phone a woman wearing slacks with her hair

119
00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:28,080
Speaker 1: dyed red, drinking gin and a bitter lemon at the

120
00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:31,719
Speaker 1: hotel bar. But they didn't find Zoe, no no. Instead,

121
00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:34,440
Speaker 1: they found she had left something behind, a letter. It

122
00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:40,960
Speaker 1: was addressed to the British Home Secretary. She seems really cool,

123
00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:42,880
Speaker 1: but like, like, would you go out on the night?

124
00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:45,560
Speaker 1: First of all, the Home Secretary is a fucking terrible

125
00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:48,960
Speaker 1: title for any office, the Home Secretary. But from this

126
00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:50,880
Speaker 1: first impression, would you go out on a night for

127
00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:53,200
Speaker 1: drinks with old soy? Yes?

128
00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:56,880
Speaker 2: Absolutely, I want to try this weird gin bitter lemon drink.

129
00:05:57,000 --> 00:05:58,440
Speaker 1: I'm down for that, what it is.

130
00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:00,360
Speaker 2: I love the idea of like being out for a

131
00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:01,960
Speaker 2: drink with her and her being like, can you just

132
00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:03,719
Speaker 2: call the police and tell them that I was here.

133
00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:05,760
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna like a dip out really fast.

134
00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:10,120
Speaker 1: Oh man. So the police polite gents that they were right.

135
00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:12,359
Speaker 1: They passed the mail along to the Home secretary.

136
00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:13,840
Speaker 2: Wow, so considerate.

137
00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:16,720
Speaker 1: They're like, I don't know, we don't want to be rude.

138
00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:20,440
Speaker 1: Passed where they gave a statement to the press. It

139
00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:23,080
Speaker 1: seemed that Sowe had wanted to be seen, right because

140
00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:25,720
Speaker 1: the letter she left behind was an offer to bargain. Oh,

141
00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:28,560
Speaker 1: she would turn herself into the police if they would

142
00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:31,880
Speaker 1: lighten her sentence. But you see, the authorities felt like

143
00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:33,520
Speaker 1: she was making them look like fools.

144
00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:34,920
Speaker 2: They were because she was.

145
00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:37,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, you were like dropping the letter off, like not

146
00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:39,520
Speaker 1: even checked. Just to the Home secretary.

147
00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:41,520
Speaker 2: She's like, I don't want to pay for postage, so

148
00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:43,599
Speaker 2: I called the police to come pick this up.

149
00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:47,560
Speaker 1: I have a package. So they started a kind of

150
00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:50,520
Speaker 1: thing that you always hear, right the Queen's officers do

151
00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:52,400
Speaker 1: not bargain with escape criminals.

152
00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:53,880
Speaker 2: Sure, sure, yeap, so.

153
00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:56,200
Speaker 1: Soey stayed on the run, right, But that wasn't the

154
00:06:56,240 --> 00:06:59,440
Speaker 1: first time that Sooey taunted the cops were chasing her.

155
00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:02,960
Speaker 1: Spoiler alert after she escaped from prison and we're getting

156
00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:04,320
Speaker 1: into that story in a second.

157
00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:05,240
Speaker 2: Escape from prison.

158
00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:07,640
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, oh yeah, great at escape is what we're

159
00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:14,680
Speaker 1: all about. Give me okay, thank you. Now, many months

160
00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:17,040
Speaker 1: before her letter at the bar, she had send the

161
00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:21,560
Speaker 1: authorities a mysterious package. Okay, what's in the box, Kelsey,

162
00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:22,520
Speaker 1: what's in the box?

163
00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:26,360
Speaker 2: Oh my god, Yeah, what's in the box? Is it

164
00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:27,320
Speaker 2: a tape recorder?

165
00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:31,640
Speaker 1: It would have been a gramophone maybe back at that point.

166
00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:34,720
Speaker 1: It's a massive gramophone in a brown paper bag which

167
00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:35,320
Speaker 1: is a really.

168
00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:38,280
Speaker 2: Coiddage bunch of bitter lemons and a jar. What's in there?

169
00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:41,680
Speaker 1: No? No. When they opened it, they found her prison armband.

170
00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:47,000
Speaker 1: In the uniforms she had worded side this woman rules.

171
00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:49,680
Speaker 1: So you gotta admire the audacity here is here. They're like,

172
00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:52,960
Speaker 1: fuck you, and here's your folded clothes. Thank you very much.

173
00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:55,000
Speaker 2: She's like, I escaped from prison. I have no need

174
00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:58,160
Speaker 2: of these. They're very ugly. I'm returning to my wardrobe.

175
00:07:58,200 --> 00:07:59,239
Speaker 2: Thank you for your service.

176
00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:01,920
Speaker 1: It had it seems like just like suggestions as to

177
00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:02,600
Speaker 1: how to make it warm.

178
00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:05,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, She's like, you know, I recommend like tucking the

179
00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:06,880
Speaker 2: waste a little bit. It's a little on flash.

180
00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:10,240
Speaker 1: Not very form fitting you guys. So when news got

181
00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:12,679
Speaker 1: out that she had somehow given back her prison uniform,

182
00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:16,320
Speaker 1: the press called her an honorable jail breaker. Very British.

183
00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:19,000
Speaker 2: She didn't want to steal she just wanted to leave prison.

184
00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:20,960
Speaker 1: She's just she wanted to leave prison. It wasn't a

185
00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:24,280
Speaker 1: great place to be. Police were enraged, but obviously a

186
00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:26,120
Speaker 1: lot of people were having a lot of fun with

187
00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:28,080
Speaker 1: the fact that she was leading the authorities on a

188
00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:30,280
Speaker 1: Mary chase. Yeah, it wasn't the first time. Over the

189
00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:33,680
Speaker 1: years Zoe had gathered an admiring audience. She had learned

190
00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:36,280
Speaker 1: how to put on a show. Right. That was specifically

191
00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:44,160
Speaker 1: true for her longtime passion and pursuit of burglary. We're

192
00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:45,880
Speaker 1: going really back in time, beautiful.

193
00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:49,120
Speaker 2: I love it.

194
00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:53,320
Speaker 1: So who was Zoe? Zoe was born in London in

195
00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:56,200
Speaker 1: nineteen twenty eight, and she got started on her career

196
00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:57,199
Speaker 1: really early, right.

197
00:08:57,200 --> 00:09:00,480
Speaker 2: Her career burglary, Yeah, yeah, yeah, Okay, I just wanted

198
00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:01,920
Speaker 2: to make sure I was following correctly.

199
00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:05,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, her career of mixing gin with lemon and bitters.

200
00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:09,359
Speaker 1: Her family, the Tilda Sleys, Am I saying that, right, overlord,

201
00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:13,080
Speaker 1: it is as as bright as anyone can get it.

202
00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:16,360
Speaker 1: It is. We're just making it up now, Okay, fine,

203
00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:21,440
Speaker 1: over lord, I love it. They were poor and her

204
00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:24,679
Speaker 1: father was an alcoholic, so the family often went hungry.

205
00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:28,080
Speaker 1: So we started stealing from her classmates at school. Smart

206
00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:32,280
Speaker 1: she was rummaging through lunch boxes and pickpocketing school kids,

207
00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:34,680
Speaker 1: but she knew that wouldn't feed her family right.

208
00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:36,760
Speaker 2: Right, school kids don't have that much money. They don't

209
00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:37,960
Speaker 2: even have jobs.

210
00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:39,880
Speaker 1: It's a sandwich. Hello, How often are you going to

211
00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:43,600
Speaker 1: feed a family six? So she started swimming in the Thames, right, ok,

212
00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:44,520
Speaker 1: carrying a sack.

213
00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:46,920
Speaker 2: This seems really dangerous. I don't like it.

214
00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:49,880
Speaker 1: I know she's like a child, and so that she

215
00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:53,160
Speaker 1: could climb onto the barges passing by and float away

216
00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:57,200
Speaker 1: with nuts, bananas and canned fruit like genius. This is impressive.

217
00:09:57,240 --> 00:09:58,920
Speaker 1: It's pretty bad, aus, isn't it? As a kid? Would

218
00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:00,760
Speaker 1: you have had the guts do this kind of stuff

219
00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:01,440
Speaker 1: when you were like ten?

220
00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:03,440
Speaker 2: I could barely climb a tree when I was ten.

221
00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:07,079
Speaker 2: I was like, I was a scaredy cat, to be honest, But.

222
00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:11,040
Speaker 1: I have such terrible, like leftover catholic guilt, like I

223
00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:12,880
Speaker 1: am not good at stealing because I was just like

224
00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:15,440
Speaker 1: confessed to my crimes and the crimes of everybody I've

225
00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:15,920
Speaker 1: ever met.

226
00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:18,000
Speaker 2: You know. Also, I'm like not a good swimmer. So

227
00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:19,680
Speaker 2: I don't think it would have worked out well for

228
00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:21,559
Speaker 2: me trying to scale a barge.

229
00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:24,640
Speaker 1: I still can't figure treading water successfully. I can't do

230
00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:28,840
Speaker 1: it no way. During World War Two, when Zoe was twelve,

231
00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:30,040
Speaker 1: she was sent out of London.

232
00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:31,800
Speaker 2: Oh right, because of the bombings.

233
00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:34,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. So wealthy foster family would take her in

234
00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:35,600
Speaker 1: out in the countryside.

235
00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:38,200
Speaker 2: Okay, so she leveled up during the war.

236
00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:41,640
Speaker 1: She's like, glow up, it's my mom man. London was really,

237
00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:43,400
Speaker 1: but it was for kind of a sad reason because

238
00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:46,120
Speaker 1: London was being bombed so often by the Germans that

239
00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:48,360
Speaker 1: the UK got together to try to keep kids alive

240
00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:50,080
Speaker 1: by sending them out of the city. Right, But the

241
00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:52,440
Speaker 1: kids are like, yeah, I'll see you later, guys. Yeah.

242
00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:54,839
Speaker 1: With her foster family, she was well fed, given plenty

243
00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:57,520
Speaker 1: of clothes, and was generally given everything that she felt

244
00:10:57,600 --> 00:10:58,920
Speaker 1: like that was missing from home.

245
00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:01,040
Speaker 2: She developed taste for luxury.

246
00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:03,600
Speaker 1: I'll taste for luxury. So when she got back to

247
00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:06,240
Speaker 1: London a year later in nineteen forty one, Zoe was

248
00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:08,560
Speaker 1: determined to live more like the foster family that she

249
00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:09,720
Speaker 1: had than her real family.

250
00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:10,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, best, she was.

251
00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:14,080
Speaker 1: I mean, what trauma it must be to like have

252
00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:16,440
Speaker 1: to go back. Yeah, you know what, I'm saying you like,

253
00:11:16,679 --> 00:11:18,920
Speaker 1: you like go back to like your London basement plan.

254
00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:20,760
Speaker 1: You're like, well, when is the horse carriage coming for

255
00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:23,760
Speaker 1: me again? Like, you know, are we having a ball again?

256
00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:23,880
Speaker 2: No?

257
00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:26,400
Speaker 1: Okay, cool, But now she knew where to get the

258
00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:28,120
Speaker 1: things that rich people had in their houses.

259
00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:30,040
Speaker 2: Right. And also she's a teen now, right, so she

260
00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:34,080
Speaker 2: has like a little more dexterity, a little more yeah, smarts.

261
00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:36,400
Speaker 1: So at thirteen, she broke into a house for the

262
00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:39,480
Speaker 1: first time. Okay, yeah, she was like, fucking, I'm starting early.

263
00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:42,040
Speaker 1: She came away with a pocket full of stolen coins

264
00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:45,120
Speaker 1: and paid for pictures to be taken of herself, like

265
00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:49,520
Speaker 1: I love. Her first act of self care was with stoleation.

266
00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:51,680
Speaker 1: And she's like buying me a headshot.

267
00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:54,760
Speaker 2: You know. Yeah, well, you know, she knew what she wanted.

268
00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:56,560
Speaker 2: She stole those coins to her.

269
00:11:56,640 --> 00:11:58,800
Speaker 1: You're like whatever, yeah, and now they are hers by

270
00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:03,360
Speaker 1: property law. Somewhere in the nineteen fifties. So in nineteen

271
00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:06,160
Speaker 1: forty six, when Zoe was only sixteen, she thought that

272
00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:08,600
Speaker 1: she saw a way out of her life in poverty. Right, Okay,

273
00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:12,320
Speaker 1: she marries a US sergeant named Joe Prago. Thank you.

274
00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:15,480
Speaker 1: Here is what America sounds like, and she went back

275
00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:18,640
Speaker 1: to the US with him. Okay, but Sooe was basically

276
00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:21,520
Speaker 1: still a fucking child. Man. You know, she wasn't really

277
00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:24,240
Speaker 1: happy being so far from home. She wasn't happy being

278
00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:26,600
Speaker 1: married to Joe, and she definitely wasn't happy spending her

279
00:12:26,679 --> 00:12:28,960
Speaker 1: days doing all of his cooking and cleaning, which is

280
00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:30,600
Speaker 1: apparently all that he expected.

281
00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:33,040
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, I mean also, like, no fourteen year olds

282
00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:35,880
Speaker 2: in the whole world are happy. So like adding moving

283
00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:38,360
Speaker 2: across an ocean to live with an old man who

284
00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:41,800
Speaker 2: makes you do chores. No, yeah, it's a nightmare.

285
00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:43,600
Speaker 1: Like different times and all that, But seriously, do not

286
00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:45,880
Speaker 1: marry a fucking child to dig into a different country.

287
00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:47,680
Speaker 2: I agree you shouldn't marry children.

288
00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:51,200
Speaker 1: We are firmly on the side of not marrying children yet,

289
00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:53,480
Speaker 1: just so we're clear. Yeah. After a year of enduring

290
00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:55,520
Speaker 1: the marriage, Zoe told Joe that she wanted to take

291
00:12:55,559 --> 00:13:00,679
Speaker 1: a holiday back to England. Same everybody, So if you

292
00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:02,640
Speaker 1: if you hear around and listening, please send us all

293
00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:05,560
Speaker 1: to and too. So he sends her off, but once

294
00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:07,640
Speaker 1: she was back in the UK, she cut ties. She

295
00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:11,520
Speaker 1: was never going back to America. Bon boyas Joe peace out,

296
00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:18,240
Speaker 1: hie bony, Thank you Ben for that. So Zoe said

297
00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:20,920
Speaker 1: that she left basically because the life of a housewife

298
00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:23,520
Speaker 1: was too boring and which, to be honest, that was

299
00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:25,360
Speaker 1: That's a fair assessment.

300
00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:27,600
Speaker 2: For a kid, you know, also a kid that is

301
00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:31,960
Speaker 2: used to doing like crimes, being a housewife is not interesting.

302
00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:33,760
Speaker 1: She's lived the high life. She doesn't want to be

303
00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:36,600
Speaker 1: stuck in the middlebu fuck nowhere. So back in England,

304
00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:39,960
Speaker 1: Zoe kept their last name in Progel. She swapped Joe

305
00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:43,400
Speaker 1: for another soldier, a more adventurous chap, a Canadian gunman

306
00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:45,559
Speaker 1: nicknamed Johnny the Junkie.

307
00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:47,040
Speaker 2: Incredible name.

308
00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:51,959
Speaker 1: Yeah, so together they launched a life of serious burglary. Okay,

309
00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:54,040
Speaker 1: what is it what Canadians in these over the top

310
00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:58,160
Speaker 1: names like like like Johnny the Junkie or Dudley doul Right,

311
00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:03,120
Speaker 1: or like Ryan fucking Reynolds. You know, if you were

312
00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:05,319
Speaker 1: to day a Canadian in this time and age, how

313
00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:06,720
Speaker 1: good of a nickname would they have to have?

314
00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:08,320
Speaker 2: Better than Johnny the Junkie?

315
00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:10,760
Speaker 1: I think one hundred percent. I always like to imagine

316
00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:12,679
Speaker 1: that he was the most polite burglar of his era.

317
00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:16,360
Speaker 1: He's always like sorry, sorry, sorry, story, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,

318
00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:20,000
Speaker 1: but my stepdad's Canadian. I can say that to be honest.

319
00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:22,400
Speaker 1: When I moved to New York at nineteen, I had

320
00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:26,000
Speaker 1: this weird Hispanic slash Canadian accent. It was totally true,

321
00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:27,920
Speaker 1: and it's sounded like, Eh, what's up man? Yeah, I

322
00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:29,600
Speaker 1: don't know what that's about, but like I'm fucking like,

323
00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:31,680
Speaker 1: you know, ready to go chill in the house and whatever,

324
00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:36,480
Speaker 1: and people were like, what are you? In her first

325
00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:39,240
Speaker 1: big heist, Zoe was the getaway driver. Is Johnny the

326
00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:42,200
Speaker 1: junkie and a friend broke into a luxury store. They

327
00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:46,120
Speaker 1: stole check this out seven thousand dollars seven thousand pounds

328
00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:49,440
Speaker 1: sorry of furs. Now by one estimate, that's over three

329
00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:52,840
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty thousand dollars of merchandise in space money.

330
00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:53,440
Speaker 1: Isn't that wild?

331
00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:54,320
Speaker 2: Incredible heightsts?

332
00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:58,000
Speaker 1: Also like how expensive or fucking furs? Man? Likely very

333
00:14:58,200 --> 00:14:59,880
Speaker 1: I've never bought one. I guess I don't.

334
00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:02,520
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I have no idea, but I love this.

335
00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:04,560
Speaker 2: I love the idea of them running out of a

336
00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:07,400
Speaker 2: store carrying these giant furs and like shoving them into

337
00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:08,080
Speaker 2: the back of a car.

338
00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:10,160
Speaker 1: If it were just like wearing them and trying to

339
00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:14,480
Speaker 1: act really chilling, like like Joey and like friends, wearing

340
00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:15,480
Speaker 1: all of Chandler's.

341
00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:17,560
Speaker 2: Clothes, just like walking by folks seem good.

342
00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:20,120
Speaker 1: So to Zoe this was like the thrill that she

343
00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:22,280
Speaker 1: had been missing. You see, her only regret was that

344
00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:23,960
Speaker 1: she was left out in the car while the boys

345
00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:26,360
Speaker 1: were having all that fun. Right, so she was actually

346
00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:29,120
Speaker 1: driving a stolen Jaguar. But so Sooe decided that she

347
00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:35,320
Speaker 1: couldn't miss out on the excitement anymore. Oh, a little

348
00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:38,040
Speaker 1: further in time, does it tell me we're in the fifties?

349
00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:41,840
Speaker 1: Is that it been getting there? Great? Okay, late forties.

350
00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:44,880
Speaker 1: Let's say. Next, Zoe and the boys broke into a

351
00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:48,120
Speaker 1: post office where they grabbed a safe. Oh.

352
00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:50,440
Speaker 2: I was like, what's in the post office? I know?

353
00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:54,760
Speaker 1: They just really loved stationary love letters. They love leaving

354
00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:59,680
Speaker 1: letters for the police to carry. Okay, so safe. Yeah,

355
00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:01,640
Speaker 1: And they herited out and cracked it open. They found

356
00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:04,880
Speaker 1: that they had made a huge haul. It was full

357
00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:08,520
Speaker 1: of fucking cash, banknotes and the other government documents worth

358
00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:11,560
Speaker 1: about six hundred thousand in today's money. Wow. I mean,

359
00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:13,600
Speaker 1: imagine you were an eighteen year old and suddenly you

360
00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:16,200
Speaker 1: have about two hundred thousand from the split dropped into

361
00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:17,760
Speaker 1: your lap? What would you like? What did you like

362
00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:19,760
Speaker 1: at eighteen? What were you like? Oh my god, this

363
00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:20,280
Speaker 1: is the best.

364
00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:24,080
Speaker 2: Ooh, that's a great question. Like concert tickets. I would

365
00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:26,320
Speaker 2: have wanted my own apartment at eighteen, right, I would

366
00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:27,680
Speaker 2: be like, I'm going to get my own place.

367
00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:30,800
Speaker 1: Wow, that's so industrious of you. I would have just

368
00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:32,400
Speaker 1: been like, I don't know. When I go see death

369
00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:33,600
Speaker 1: Cap for Cuties or whatever.

370
00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:37,320
Speaker 2: God at please let me see Connor overs, I'll die.

371
00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:40,320
Speaker 1: Also, is it just me or does Zoe and the

372
00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:42,880
Speaker 1: Boys sound like a great British invasion band that never was?

373
00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:44,840
Speaker 2: You know, Yeah, it sounds like a punk band.

374
00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:51,480
Speaker 1: So it seemed like the world was Zowe's oyster, right,

375
00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:56,080
Speaker 1: But the heist actually got Zoe caught the post office heist, yeah,

376
00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:58,760
Speaker 1: cracking open the safe Okay. In nineteen forty seven, while

377
00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:01,480
Speaker 1: she was still eighteen, Zoe was arrested for the first time.

378
00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:05,600
Speaker 1: She was also three months pregnant with Johnny the Junkies baby.

379
00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:09,240
Speaker 2: Not good to go to prison if you're pregnant.

380
00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:14,399
Speaker 1: O Johnny the Junkie Junior. I don't know JJ. So

381
00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:16,920
Speaker 1: she was using four checks and trying to trade with

382
00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:20,160
Speaker 1: stolen post office documents like great, like what like stamps?

383
00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:22,119
Speaker 1: Like what are you like? You got a stapler? Like

384
00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:24,920
Speaker 1: I don't know what you're fucking thinking, Zoe. So the

385
00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:27,800
Speaker 1: judge on her case decided that Zoe wasn't responsible for

386
00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:31,120
Speaker 1: her actions. So since she was a woman, he said

387
00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:33,680
Speaker 1: that she was easily influenced by the men and that

388
00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:36,080
Speaker 1: they were the ones who were responsible for her actions.

389
00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:38,760
Speaker 3: And she's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's She's like, oh yeah,

390
00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:41,560
Speaker 3: I didn't even weird, like misogyny in the justice system.

391
00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:45,800
Speaker 2: Misogyny that's actually like moonlighting is feminism, right, because it's like, well,

392
00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:47,320
Speaker 2: she couldn't have done a crime.

393
00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:50,800
Speaker 1: She couldn't have done this, She stuppure, Yeah, I don't, officer.

394
00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:52,600
Speaker 1: I thought they were just buying me a bunch of furs.

395
00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:53,359
Speaker 1: It's so weird.

396
00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:54,800
Speaker 2: They love me so much.

397
00:17:56,359 --> 00:17:59,840
Speaker 1: Have you seen my koit quaff quaff, my koi quaff.

398
00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:04,720
Speaker 1: So the judge, the judge sentence man the Oxford dictionary

399
00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:06,840
Speaker 1: people are just going to be calling me your priory

400
00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:09,720
Speaker 1: very angrily. Not my fucking problem, you guys. So the

401
00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:12,520
Speaker 1: judge sentence Zoe to three years in a reform school

402
00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:16,040
Speaker 1: and juvenile detention center, which British called Borstals.

403
00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:18,639
Speaker 2: Oh this seems like a place you don't want to go.

404
00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:21,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, well you would think, but the school was supposed

405
00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:23,320
Speaker 1: to be a place where crooked girls were straightened out, okay,

406
00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:26,280
Speaker 1: where they learned new habits and took on domestic skills. Like,

407
00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:29,600
Speaker 1: holy shit, man, I apologize that this is what they're like.

408
00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:32,480
Speaker 1: As for all men, they all called me. They actually

409
00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:34,440
Speaker 1: signed a release for me to be able to speak

410
00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:36,240
Speaker 1: for all men. Thank you. Is so fucked up that

411
00:18:36,359 --> 00:18:39,920
Speaker 1: it's like reform means teaching women domestic skills, you know

412
00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:40,280
Speaker 1: what I mean.

413
00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:42,360
Speaker 2: Yes, it's one of those things where it's like it's

414
00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:45,399
Speaker 2: fucked up to have to learn domestic skills to reform

415
00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:48,040
Speaker 2: from your criminal life. And also if someone offered me

416
00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:50,000
Speaker 2: to go to a reform school for three years and

417
00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:51,960
Speaker 2: learn to sew, I would be like, is it free?

418
00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:56,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's what's the food? Like? Yeah? Yeah yeah No

419
00:18:56,440 --> 00:19:01,280
Speaker 1: bores to the Borstals that summer. Zoe's son Tony was

420
00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:08,000
Speaker 1: born in the born Tony. She's like Zoe, Johnny des.

421
00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:09,239
Speaker 2: Like, I'm a criminal? What am I supposed to name

422
00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:11,119
Speaker 2: my son? His name's Tony went.

423
00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:13,840
Speaker 1: To Tony you really lost your way, man. So the

424
00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:16,040
Speaker 1: pressures on her grew, right, but not in a way

425
00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:18,360
Speaker 1: that made Zoe decided to live you know, lawfully.

426
00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:19,000
Speaker 3: No, no right.

427
00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:22,800
Speaker 1: And then, with flawless comedic timing, Joe Progele arrived in

428
00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:25,040
Speaker 1: England looking for his runaway wife.

429
00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:26,840
Speaker 2: She's like, this is your son.

430
00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:30,240
Speaker 1: He's like, I don't know of the math a, but yeah,

431
00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:34,160
Speaker 1: take him. I apologize to every person in the South

432
00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:37,440
Speaker 1: that ever existed. But when when he found that she

433
00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:39,920
Speaker 1: was locked up, he abandoned her and that was the

434
00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:42,040
Speaker 1: end of Joe. He's like, you know, I will marry

435
00:19:42,119 --> 00:19:45,720
Speaker 1: a minor in an instant, but a criminal, nay, sir, nay,

436
00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:49,119
Speaker 1: I've got morals. So Zoe got to know the other

437
00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:50,920
Speaker 1: girls in the prison and they became something of a

438
00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:53,440
Speaker 1: new family for her. Right, many of them were young

439
00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:54,720
Speaker 1: mothers like she was.

440
00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:58,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, because they all needed to be reformed, and.

441
00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:00,879
Speaker 1: Many of them came into the borso pregnant. Yeah, like

442
00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:03,399
Speaker 1: those are such a fucking wild trend, right, Like, so

443
00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:06,399
Speaker 1: we're going to president okay, cool, we got about thirty days, you.

444
00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:08,920
Speaker 2: Know, No, it's probably like, oh, you got pregnant and

445
00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:11,720
Speaker 2: you weren't married. Reform school for you, reform school for you,

446
00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:14,439
Speaker 2: our little husky, get.

447
00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:19,440
Speaker 1: Out of here. You need some Jesus. So we learned

448
00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:21,680
Speaker 1: a lot of things from there, things like shoplifting tips,

449
00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:25,200
Speaker 1: how to better pose. Really, he's like a training grapher.

450
00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:27,040
Speaker 1: Her she was how to better pose. This is an

451
00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:29,359
Speaker 1: important one. How to better pose as an upper class

452
00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:31,760
Speaker 1: woman to con shopkeepers.

453
00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:34,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is the problem. You put all these really

454
00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:36,400
Speaker 2: smart women together and you're like, learn to sew.

455
00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:38,160
Speaker 1: They're going to learn immediately.

456
00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:40,159
Speaker 2: They're going to be sewing up a storm. Like have

457
00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:42,920
Speaker 2: you ever stolen forty five thousand dollars in gyms?

458
00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:45,560
Speaker 1: Yeah? I love that. You're like that you wove in

459
00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:48,000
Speaker 1: sewing up a storm. I'm going to keep that. We're

460
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:51,359
Speaker 1: gonna re record it as as as an album after this.

461
00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:54,040
Speaker 1: So I also love the idea of this, like karate

462
00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:56,399
Speaker 1: kid like montage of training somebody. How to be more

463
00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:58,879
Speaker 1: British upper class? You know, like, all right, now you

464
00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:02,480
Speaker 1: have to fund your cousin more attractive, more attractive, whatever.

465
00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:03,960
Speaker 2: Your cousin more attractive.

466
00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:05,560
Speaker 1: But you know how British row with you, old Mary

467
00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:06,280
Speaker 1: within cousins.

468
00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:08,240
Speaker 2: You know, I'm like, how to give your dynasty a

469
00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:09,560
Speaker 2: habsburg jaw hurry.

470
00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:14,520
Speaker 1: So the Vorstol became sort of finishing school for shoe right,

471
00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:15,399
Speaker 1: just not the one that.

472
00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:16,720
Speaker 2: The finishing for criminals.

473
00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:20,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, It wasn't the one that the judge expected. Instead,

474
00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:22,159
Speaker 1: she came out at the end of her sentence like

475
00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:25,159
Speaker 1: as a well trained burglar and connorist, and she was

476
00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:28,159
Speaker 1: finally ready to strike out on her own. Let's go.

477
00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:42,119
Speaker 1: So we had a lot of classroom learning, but she

478
00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:44,720
Speaker 1: wanted to put her knowledge to good use. After all,

479
00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:47,639
Speaker 1: she was a mother now. So with her second son, Paul,

480
00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:51,280
Speaker 1: Zoey now had multiple mouths to feed, it was time

481
00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:53,000
Speaker 1: to make some real cash.

482
00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:55,640
Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, multiple mouths to feed, and also a whole

483
00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:57,560
Speaker 2: slew of new skills you got to try out.

484
00:21:57,680 --> 00:21:59,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, she's got to put them to the test. And

485
00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:02,040
Speaker 1: with that motive, alongside the skills that Soe learned in

486
00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:05,879
Speaker 1: the Borstal, Zoe became extremely successful for real like she stole.

487
00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:08,840
Speaker 1: She stole from luxury stores by posing as a wealthy

488
00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:11,920
Speaker 1: woman and writing bad checks for jewelry and for clothing

489
00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:15,639
Speaker 1: that's beautiful, check this out. Eventually, Zoe was running a

490
00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:17,679
Speaker 1: mail order shoplifting business.

491
00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:21,720
Speaker 2: Okay, mail order shoplifting. Uh huh uh huh, okay, explain

492
00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:22,040
Speaker 2: it to me.

493
00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:24,600
Speaker 1: So when an order would come in, Zoe would figure

494
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:27,240
Speaker 1: out where the item was Plan A Heights, then scam

495
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:32,600
Speaker 1: con burgle and otherwise absconmed the item, and then mail

496
00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:34,360
Speaker 1: it onto her satisfied customers.

497
00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:36,680
Speaker 2: And then did these customers pay her for this service?

498
00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:38,000
Speaker 2: Just a reduced price?

499
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:40,640
Speaker 1: A reduced price. But imagine like you're just going around,

500
00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:42,760
Speaker 1: be like I want this, You tell her where it is,

501
00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:43,520
Speaker 1: and then she would like.

502
00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:45,639
Speaker 2: You're like, I want a back laptop. I have one

503
00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:46,520
Speaker 2: hundred dollars.

504
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:52,240
Speaker 1: She's like on it. Yeah, So business was booming, right, ben,

505
00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:54,600
Speaker 1: can we get a little recks of riches, fifties bread?

506
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:55,760
Speaker 1: Dance to halltoon right here?

507
00:22:57,480 --> 00:22:57,640
Speaker 2: Oh?

508
00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:01,080
Speaker 1: You know, imagine her shopping down the street. You know

509
00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:04,720
Speaker 1: she's like saying waving hello to people. You know, Joe

510
00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:06,640
Speaker 1: Progo is still writing her let us I come back

511
00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:10,200
Speaker 1: to me. She's like, fuck no. So a lot of

512
00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:12,960
Speaker 1: Sooey's jobs who were jump ups, right. She would steal

513
00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:16,840
Speaker 1: loaded trucks around London then sell their cargo. Fucking Zoey,

514
00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:18,119
Speaker 1: Holy smokes.

515
00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:20,000
Speaker 2: You have a whole truck, then it's easy to run away,

516
00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:23,240
Speaker 2: she's going to the wholesale she she believes in recycling

517
00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:25,000
Speaker 2: costco but for stealing.

518
00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:28,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. So she at least had one regular accomplice,

519
00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:31,359
Speaker 1: almost like an employee, and she even had a regular

520
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:34,160
Speaker 1: spot where she would meet with the buyers at Tuffnell

521
00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:37,080
Speaker 1: Park in North London. So, for one of her most

522
00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:40,560
Speaker 1: dramatic heightsts, Sooey and a couple of lock pickers travel

523
00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:44,199
Speaker 1: out to Oxfordshire, where they spotted a likely mansion. They

524
00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:48,040
Speaker 1: broke in and drove out in a stolen Jaguar loaded

525
00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:48,720
Speaker 1: with their loot.

526
00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:51,760
Speaker 2: Genius. I love the idea of being like, let me

527
00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:54,520
Speaker 2: just get my two buddies who are locksmiths, let me

528
00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:56,880
Speaker 2: just get just all my friends who are lock pickers.

529
00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:58,359
Speaker 2: We'll just go on a little adventure.

530
00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:00,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, we have a little book club that we also

531
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:01,720
Speaker 1: like just like share our skills with it.

532
00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:03,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, my friends don't know how to lock pick. Maybe

533
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:05,120
Speaker 2: I need to get some new ones.

534
00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 1: I know. So Zoe was not always able to escape

535
00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:10,320
Speaker 1: the police, right, But because she was often caught for

536
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:14,320
Speaker 1: only small time, small time thefts like shoplifting or whatever,

537
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:17,240
Speaker 1: she was hit with a variety of small sentences, sometimes

538
00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:20,159
Speaker 1: like just a few months once when Zoe and some

539
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:23,159
Speaker 1: other of her friends stole massive safe. This is so

540
00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:26,880
Speaker 1: fucking stupid. The police were able to easily follow them

541
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:29,520
Speaker 1: back to their hideout because the safe was so big

542
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:33,199
Speaker 1: that it had scraped a trail and the fucking payment

543
00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:38,200
Speaker 1: as they dragged along. This actually happened. That is the

544
00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:41,560
Speaker 1: sound of it actually happening. It took a while.

545
00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:45,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, it has like the vibes of going to CrossFit,

546
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:48,399
Speaker 2: right of like having to drag this safe, like to

547
00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:50,320
Speaker 2: toe it together as a team.

548
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:54,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, so let's push this tractor wheel. Yeah, oh my god,

549
00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:58,160
Speaker 1: As the story goes, once they were arrested, they made

550
00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:00,160
Speaker 1: a phone call to a lawyer asking for help. Help,

551
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:02,040
Speaker 1: but he told them that he was the one that

552
00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:05,119
Speaker 1: they had robbed. They had stole stolen safe with his

553
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:08,480
Speaker 1: I'm fucking dead. Oh my god. That sounds like not

554
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:10,680
Speaker 1: that true to be honest, but it's fucking hilarious. Like

555
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:12,520
Speaker 1: I love it when you hear these stories, Like how

556
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:14,919
Speaker 1: believable do you think these accounts are back then?

557
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:17,880
Speaker 2: I think they probably are. You know, it's really hard

558
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:21,200
Speaker 2: to steal things now in the world because there's so

559
00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:22,720
Speaker 2: much CCTV.

560
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:25,119
Speaker 1: Everywhere we used to be so much easier, like trains

561
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:26,119
Speaker 1: for a whole thing, you know.

562
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:29,359
Speaker 2: But also just like if there aren't cameras everywhere, you

563
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:30,639
Speaker 2: can just break a window and go in.

564
00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:32,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they'd be like it was you, and you're like, no,

565
00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:34,200
Speaker 1: it wasn't. Like what's your proof, and they're like, god,

566
00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:37,080
Speaker 1: damn it, we have no figure drawing him exactly.

567
00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:39,200
Speaker 2: And all of our money now is on like those

568
00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:42,399
Speaker 2: plastic cards, fake money where it's like if you if

569
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:43,560
Speaker 2: there's cash to steal.

570
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:45,760
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, exactly. So I believe that she was just

571
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:48,439
Speaker 1: is this how we form a crime syndicate of our

572
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:52,920
Speaker 1: own benchuck, let's play music over that when we when

573
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:54,800
Speaker 1: we edit this over. You got it? So without a

574
00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:57,320
Speaker 1: good lawyer, Zoe was convicted for stealing the safe and

575
00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:00,480
Speaker 1: she got fifty But I'm sorry, just one last about.

576
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:04,320
Speaker 2: Having a good lawyer and for attacking a lawyer. None

577
00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:06,320
Speaker 2: of them judges are going to go easy on you

578
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:07,879
Speaker 2: if you've stole from a lawyer.

579
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:10,600
Speaker 1: The last thing I'll say about this fucking safe. But

580
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:12,440
Speaker 1: I love like one of the robbers and be like, no,

581
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:14,760
Speaker 1: they'll never know, buddy, No, they're not saying it. It's okay.

582
00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:17,760
Speaker 1: What is this like scraping thing? They're like, nah, dude,

583
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:19,879
Speaker 1: they won't catch it. Right.

584
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:22,200
Speaker 2: It's like if your dog steals food and then leaves

585
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:28,119
Speaker 2: like a trail of like, you know, food, You're like, oh,

586
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:30,760
Speaker 2: was it you? Was it you? There's chips all the

587
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:31,240
Speaker 2: way to you.

588
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:33,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, like the dogs that giving you that look of

589
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:36,040
Speaker 1: like what like who it was it? I don't even know.

590
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:40,040
Speaker 1: So Zoe got fifteen months in London's Halloway Prison for women.

591
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:42,840
Speaker 1: It wasn't her first day there and it wouldn't be

592
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:48,200
Speaker 1: her lost. Those fifteen months in Holloway didn't stop Zoe

593
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:50,360
Speaker 1: right once she was out again, she went right back

594
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:53,280
Speaker 1: to work. After all, she had an operation to run man.

595
00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 1: I mean, yes, I mean when she gave birth to

596
00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:58,119
Speaker 1: her daughter Tracy in nineteen fifty seven, she only rested

597
00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:00,440
Speaker 1: for a few weeks before her next heist.

598
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:03,800
Speaker 2: Listen, if you have a passion, you have to pursue it.

599
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:06,879
Speaker 1: And who are we, the lawful system of society, to

600
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 1: keep you from it? You know what I mean? Come on,

601
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:10,480
Speaker 1: We're not gonna hold this one down.

602
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 2: Sure.

603
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:13,800
Speaker 1: So this was about the time that Zoe moved to Clapham,

604
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:16,000
Speaker 1: where she went to the garage to pack full of

605
00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:19,440
Speaker 1: her stolen goods, so she would get frequent visitors from

606
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:22,760
Speaker 1: across the London underworld and supply thieves and black market

607
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:26,560
Speaker 1: dealers with tools and items to sell to someone else. Great,

608
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:29,199
Speaker 1: So that's September. Okay, we're in nineteen fifty eight now,

609
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:31,680
Speaker 1: okay with me? And so he was recruited to be

610
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:34,400
Speaker 1: the getaway driver for a jail break and what must

611
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:40,440
Speaker 1: be London's most ridiculously named prison, Wormwood Scrubs. Do you

612
00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:42,320
Speaker 1: feel like the British like have the most random names

613
00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 1: in fucking places.

614
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:44,120
Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't know what they're doing.

615
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:46,480
Speaker 1: Like, I feel like their marketing team is like, right, right,

616
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:50,000
Speaker 1: we'll call this town Soaky Bottoms. Well there's no like,

617
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 1: you know, there's no there's no workshopping it. They're just

618
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:57,600
Speaker 1: like fucking first pitch always goes. So God bless you guys.

619
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:00,359
Speaker 1: So the escape from Warwood Scrubs wasn't, at you all

620
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:04,680
Speaker 1: that complicated. The gangster inside Jumbo Parsons had been assigned

621
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:07,040
Speaker 1: to the prison construction crew, which seems like a stupid

622
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:10,360
Speaker 1: idea to me, but yeah, okay, okay, prison, Okay Bottom's

623
00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:12,680
Speaker 1: worth whatever you are. So one day when he was

624
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:14,639
Speaker 1: working on one of the building roofs. He hid from

625
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:17,440
Speaker 1: the guards behind one of the smokestacks, then climbed down

626
00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:20,440
Speaker 1: the drain pipe and made for the prison wall. So

627
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 1: was that a drain pipe, buddy, that was a drain pipe.

628
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:26,760
Speaker 1: Oh my god, man, I love you dude. He's like

629
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:28,040
Speaker 1: just like the smallest clank.

630
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:28,880
Speaker 2: It's so nice.

631
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:32,200
Speaker 1: Zoe and the other accomplices were waiting outside, right, so

632
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:35,520
Speaker 1: they tossed the rope over and Jumbo fucking nickname was

633
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:38,520
Speaker 1: able to climb up the rope over the thirty foot wall.

634
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:43,000
Speaker 1: Okay athlete, Yeah, okay, buddy. The big reveals they're all

635
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:45,920
Speaker 1: CrossFit athletes and also really into part core. Yeah.

636
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:49,000
Speaker 2: Imagining a version of this where I am escaping from

637
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:51,080
Speaker 2: prison and then I'm just like looking at.

638
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:52,040
Speaker 1: It, like, well.

639
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:54,040
Speaker 2: We tried.

640
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:55,880
Speaker 1: The good thing is we put in effort, guys, and

641
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:56,840
Speaker 1: it means a lot to me that.

642
00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:00,320
Speaker 2: You came for me exactly. So Jumbo does half this

643
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 2: problem despite his nickname.

644
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:03,480
Speaker 1: He just wore no, no, no, no no. He left

645
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:05,640
Speaker 1: the letter. He had the audacity to leave a letter

646
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:09,360
Speaker 1: for the prison officials. I oh my god, it's so British,

647
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 1: isn't it that said that he enjoyed his time inside

648
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:14,200
Speaker 1: and he was only sorry that he had to leave

649
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 1: in such a hurry. Yeah, like ooh you got you

650
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:20,240
Speaker 1: gotta love the dry English humor. Yeah, just being getaway

651
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:23,280
Speaker 1: driver had never been Zoe's style, right, boring? Yeah, she

652
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:26,160
Speaker 1: didn't say it's boring for her. So when she received

653
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:30,160
Speaker 1: her next conviction for housebreaking larceny in nineteen sixty and

654
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,560
Speaker 1: sent to Holloway Prison again, she was finally able to

655
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:38,080
Speaker 1: show off. Oh now we're in the sixties, you feel that,

656
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:52,240
Speaker 1: I love it? I feel that changed. Inside Halloway, Zoe

657
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:55,040
Speaker 1: spent her first few weeks cooperating with the guards and

658
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:58,000
Speaker 1: making friends. They liked her attitude, you know, she was sas,

659
00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:00,240
Speaker 1: she was cool, and they were convinced that she was

660
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 1: going to be a model prisoner. They made her, uh

661
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:05,959
Speaker 1: this is what they were called a trustee, which basically

662
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 1: was an inmate trusted by the prison officials, which again, this.

663
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:12,920
Speaker 2: Girl came in there. She flirted for two weeks and

664
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:15,240
Speaker 2: they were like, here's your badge, honey, have fun.

665
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 1: Can you imagine the lifers there being like, what the

666
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:19,959
Speaker 1: fuck does she look? I feel like her?

667
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 2: She's blowing kisses.

668
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:23,760
Speaker 1: That's right. That's the fucking quaff, isn't it.

669
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 2: I love prison.

670
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 1: So she was giving a special armband to Markish status. Ooh, like,

671
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:32,000
Speaker 1: how petty is that that. They were just like, here's

672
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 1: a special arm by that you can show off to

673
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:37,000
Speaker 1: everybody else. And so it basically meant that she had

674
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:38,360
Speaker 1: lighter work duties.

675
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 2: She was like, I'm too pretty to do hard labor.

676
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:47,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you have fun though. In fact, for her

677
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:50,640
Speaker 1: first work assignment, they made her a janitor and she

678
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:54,560
Speaker 1: was tasked with keeping the prison offices spick and span. Okay,

679
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:56,520
Speaker 1: any idea of how this is going to go to

680
00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 1: allow her to escape? Ooh, well, I'm.

681
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:02,280
Speaker 2: Going to guess she's not really cleaning. That would be

682
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 2: my first guess. My second guess is that offices you

683
00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 2: just go through their shit, right, like, oh I'm cleaning.

684
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:11,040
Speaker 2: I'm just looking through this pile of papers. Oh, here's

685
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 2: the key to the prison. I'll simply let myself out there,

686
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:14,520
Speaker 2: you go.

687
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:18,520
Speaker 1: So she had access to all the offices, including the

688
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 1: warden's office, including the warden's telephone. Yep, okay, So as

689
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 1: soon as she had the chance, so he gave the

690
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:28,880
Speaker 1: phone to try and found that it had a direct line.

691
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 1: She gave a try. She was like, hoping, pick this up.

692
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:35,240
Speaker 1: It's a decorative, but I love that. We're so impressed.

693
00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 1: Like she figured out how to pick it up and

694
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:40,160
Speaker 1: dial the number. It was a direct line to outside

695
00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:40,480
Speaker 1: the prison.

696
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:41,160
Speaker 2: Perfect.

697
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:42,680
Speaker 1: So if you're in prison and you have the chance

698
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 1: to make it, so you get phone call to plan

699
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:45,520
Speaker 1: and escape, who would you call? Is there somebody in

700
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 1: your friend group that you're like, they'd fucking do it? Oh?

701
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean definitely there are people in my friend

702
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:52,480
Speaker 2: group that I could call and they would come get me.

703
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:54,440
Speaker 1: I think I would just be afraid that they'd be

704
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 1: like too stoked about it. They'd be like, oh, like

705
00:31:57,120 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 1: like I'd be afraid to call some of my friends

706
00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:02,120
Speaker 1: because they were great, but they would like never let

707
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 1: me live it down like that they had to help me.

708
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:06,640
Speaker 2: You know, you need a friend who is responsible but

709
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:10,600
Speaker 2: not responsible enough to blab right. So it's like a

710
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:13,680
Speaker 2: very specific type of friend, right, It's like, are you

711
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:15,240
Speaker 2: going to be here to pick me up from prison

712
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:19,360
Speaker 2: after I've escaped on time? But then also not tell anyone.

713
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:21,800
Speaker 1: They're like, I'm just gonna like wing it. I'm just

714
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 1: going to organically feel when to show up if that's

715
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:26,440
Speaker 1: school with you, no, So Zoe was able to reach

716
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:28,600
Speaker 1: her boyfriend and the two of them cooked up a plan.

717
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:31,080
Speaker 1: In fact, the basics of the plan had been laid

718
00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:33,840
Speaker 1: before Zoe's conviction the last days of her trough, so

719
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:35,840
Speaker 1: when Zoe was still free, she had taken a walk

720
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:37,840
Speaker 1: around the prison walls with her boyfriend and they had

721
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:40,480
Speaker 1: taken measurements and even tried skeleton keys on some of

722
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 1: the most remote outer doors of the prison. I tell you,

723
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:44,200
Speaker 1: I love it.

724
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 2: You know, like when you go to a party and

725
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:47,440
Speaker 2: you think you might want to leave early because you're

726
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:48,800
Speaker 2: not sure you're going to have a good time, and

727
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:51,640
Speaker 2: so you're like, Okay, what's our strategy, what's our strategy

728
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 2: for leaving this party?

729
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 1: I love it.

730
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 2: In their life, they're just like, let's go ahead and

731
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:57,160
Speaker 2: have a strategy for you getting out of this prison,

732
00:32:57,520 --> 00:32:58,080
Speaker 2: just in case.

733
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:00,600
Speaker 1: What's your strategy for leaving a part? What do you

734
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 1: use often?

735
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:01,959
Speaker 2: Irish goodbye?

736
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:04,360
Speaker 1: Goodbye? You just get the fuck out of there. Yeah?

737
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:06,480
Speaker 1: Oh man, I err on the side of like over

738
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:10,120
Speaker 1: explaining my lie. Like I'll be like, oh yeah, yeah,

739
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:11,280
Speaker 1: I have to go. I have to go to the

740
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:13,360
Speaker 1: doctor because on my knee. My knee is bad, Like

741
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:14,480
Speaker 1: you want to see my knee, like I have a

742
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:17,960
Speaker 1: cut in it. They're like, just fucking go dude. So

743
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:19,840
Speaker 1: the keys that they tried they didn't work. So they

744
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:23,000
Speaker 1: agreed that Zoe would get out over the wall. Again.

745
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:25,600
Speaker 1: These fucking parkcore people making us all look bad. They

746
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:28,320
Speaker 1: were just like practicing jumping all the up. Kill. Yeah,

747
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:31,280
Speaker 1: so they were following the pattern of wormwood scrubs escape

748
00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:33,800
Speaker 1: right right right. So on the morning of Sunday, July

749
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:36,600
Speaker 1: twenty fourth, nineteen sixty, Zoe took advantage of a five

750
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 1: minute gap between the end of her work duties and

751
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:41,880
Speaker 1: the time that she was supposed to a ride back

752
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:43,160
Speaker 1: at the cub block for breakfast.

753
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:44,960
Speaker 2: Okay, and so she scaled the wall.

754
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 1: So well in that gap, Zoe walked calmly across a

755
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:50,120
Speaker 1: prison yard. I think this is the trick where you

756
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:52,680
Speaker 1: got at calm. She climbed up a mount of coal,

757
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:55,400
Speaker 1: that's a mounta cole, thank you Ben, that was piled

758
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:58,600
Speaker 1: up against the inner wall, and slipped over the top.

759
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:00,800
Speaker 2: So see she didn't have to climb the wall. She

760
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 2: had a strategy.

761
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:04,200
Speaker 1: No, no, no, here we go She was faced then

762
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:07,320
Speaker 1: with the outer wall prison twenty five feet high. When

763
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:10,239
Speaker 1: she reached it, she heard a ladder hitting from the

764
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:13,719
Speaker 1: other side. Oh. The boyfriend peeked over from the top

765
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:17,040
Speaker 1: and tossed her down a rope ladder. Zoe climbed up

766
00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 1: with him, but as she reached the top, the two

767
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:21,399
Speaker 1: of them heard a commotion down in the street. Yeah,

768
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:23,480
Speaker 1: that they did. Yeah, two of the So two of

769
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:26,000
Speaker 1: Sony's friends had arrived to watch her escape, and they

770
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:28,760
Speaker 1: had pulled up an incredible style. Okay, they were driving

771
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:33,600
Speaker 1: a fucking pink forward Sapphire complete with leopard print seat covers,

772
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:35,520
Speaker 1: and it parked right in front of the main gate.

773
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:36,640
Speaker 2: Like those are the friends?

774
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 1: Like, Hey guys, a lot of asking me how I'm

775
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:43,440
Speaker 1: going to bring my friend out.

776
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:46,680
Speaker 2: They're going live to Instagram, they're like are girls back?

777
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:51,880
Speaker 1: Like lol list Obviously, after they had been sitting there

778
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:54,240
Speaker 1: for a fucking while waiting for the show, the prison

779
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:57,040
Speaker 1: guards had gotten suspicious. Right, So, just as Zoe was

780
00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:59,839
Speaker 1: actually escaping, a few guards had come out to ask

781
00:34:59,880 --> 00:35:01,719
Speaker 1: the why they were sitting outside the prison in that

782
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:04,480
Speaker 1: fucking car. Right, The spectators in the car were able

783
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:08,160
Speaker 1: to keep the guards occupied but they didn't spoil the escape.

784
00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:09,520
Speaker 1: They didn't actually spoil escape.

785
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:10,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, decoy.

786
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:13,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're like, do you like my red low seats?

787
00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:14,879
Speaker 1: You like this music? Yea, I don't know why. There's

788
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:15,480
Speaker 1: so many Germany.

789
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:17,239
Speaker 2: You want to see the trunk, let's look in it

790
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:18,280
Speaker 2: really carefully.

791
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:22,120
Speaker 1: So fun fact, this was the first this was the

792
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:24,319
Speaker 1: first time that a woman had escaped hall away over

793
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:27,040
Speaker 1: the wall. Woww Yeah. A few guards actually did see

794
00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:29,759
Speaker 1: Zoe leaving, but they later told newspapers that it was

795
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:32,520
Speaker 1: so funny watching Zoe climb over the wall that they

796
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:35,120
Speaker 1: couldn't even talk because they were laughing so hard.

797
00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:39,399
Speaker 2: Are you a relatable that's you know, just they don't

798
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:41,160
Speaker 2: pay you enough to be a prison guard, Like, you

799
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:42,560
Speaker 2: don't need to tackle that woman.

800
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:44,319
Speaker 1: Yeah. They're like, well, we'll get to it. We'll get

801
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 1: to the catching you arb, but for now.

802
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:49,640
Speaker 2: Also, you already mentioned that she had like befriended all

803
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:52,200
Speaker 2: of the guards, so they're like, oh, yeah, we thought

804
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:53,120
Speaker 2: it was so funny.

805
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:55,480
Speaker 1: They're like, look at her, she's just being our Zoe.

806
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:57,319
Speaker 2: Zoe. Yeah, they're like, look at our Zoe.

807
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:01,000
Speaker 1: So eventually they did go back to the prison to

808
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:04,680
Speaker 1: send up the alarm. But by then, by the time

809
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:06,239
Speaker 1: they led the other guards of the spot, all they

810
00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:09,279
Speaker 1: found was in the banded ladder. So again they don't

811
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:11,640
Speaker 1: you know they recycled. They're like, if you guys need

812
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:13,880
Speaker 1: this ladder, it just fucking had katehd use it. H

813
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:17,040
Speaker 1: Zoe and her accomplices had disappeared, and the police swept

814
00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:18,920
Speaker 1: London for Zoe. They really did. This was when she

815
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:21,200
Speaker 1: wrote her letter to the Home Secretary and called the police.

816
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:23,120
Speaker 2: She's like, I can't go to any bars. There are

817
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 2: cops everywhere.

818
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:26,560
Speaker 1: Please fucking leave me alone. I'll negotiate, right.

819
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:28,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can't steal anything.

820
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:31,560
Speaker 1: Plus I do really well in prisons. People really love me.

821
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:34,640
Speaker 2: She's like putting in She's putting in a request, like

822
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:36,600
Speaker 2: for a dorm. She's like, can I go to Halloway

823
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:37,680
Speaker 2: all my friends are there.

824
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:40,200
Speaker 1: Halloway House, you guys, So for a while she was

825
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:42,439
Speaker 1: able to stay ahead of them. Right. Zoe had called

826
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:44,800
Speaker 1: her hair, she picked up a new wardrobe.

827
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:47,560
Speaker 3: They do seem stupid to be honest. Yeah, they were like,

828
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:49,400
Speaker 3: it's sound a good look on the London police of

829
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:51,400
Speaker 3: the time. She picks up her daughter Tracy and they

830
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:53,520
Speaker 3: hid in the countryside for a couple of weeks. Then,

831
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:56,480
Speaker 3: together with her current boyfriend, they spend some time relaxing

832
00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:58,400
Speaker 3: along the beaches of England's South Coast.

833
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:01,080
Speaker 1: Okay, I wish I knew were little Paul and TONI

834
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:02,840
Speaker 1: were at this point, but there's not a lot of

835
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:04,800
Speaker 1: news on those guys. She was just like, trace me

836
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:06,920
Speaker 1: my favorite. Fuck you guys, like you know, you're figuring

837
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:09,840
Speaker 1: out crimes. That's right. They send him back to They

838
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:11,160
Speaker 1: send him to reform school.

839
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:12,960
Speaker 2: To learning like I was treading water in the tens

840
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:13,640
Speaker 2: at eight years old.

841
00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:16,920
Speaker 1: You guys got to get it. Yeah, figure it out, guys. Eventually, though,

842
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:20,280
Speaker 1: after the beach get away, Zoe was captured when police

843
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 1: caught her using get this nineteen to fifty eight license

844
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:26,160
Speaker 1: plates on a stolen nineteen to fifty nine car. So

845
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:28,359
Speaker 1: they tracked the car to always hide out, and at

846
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:30,840
Speaker 1: the beginning of September they launched a night raid on

847
00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:42,200
Speaker 1: the apartment she and her boyfriend were caught sleeping. So

848
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:45,680
Speaker 1: Zoe sat out her final sentence in Halloway, where she

849
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:46,480
Speaker 1: was very popular.

850
00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:49,080
Speaker 2: So, yeah, she's having a great time in Holloway. She

851
00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:49,600
Speaker 2: loves it there.

852
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:51,839
Speaker 1: We're not worried about her. So eighteen months on top

853
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:54,200
Speaker 1: of her earlier sentence. There's no record of any more

854
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:57,720
Speaker 1: escape atents, and nothing else that would risk her future

855
00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:00,680
Speaker 1: of freedom with her children. Zoe did have one more

856
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:03,520
Speaker 1: victory over the police. Though they had seized her belongings,

857
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:06,040
Speaker 1: including an incredibly valuable ring, and even though she was

858
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:09,440
Speaker 1: locked in Halloway, Zoe sued the police demanded that they

859
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:12,400
Speaker 1: returned the bucking ring, and representing the police was the

860
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:14,640
Speaker 1: sergeant who had taken all the belongings when she was

861
00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:15,800
Speaker 1: arrested in nineteen sixty.

862
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:18,719
Speaker 2: Uh huh, so Soe and the sergeant started yelling, I

863
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:21,440
Speaker 2: stole that ring fair and yeah, yeah, you get me

864
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:23,239
Speaker 2: back that show and ring the ustall for me.

865
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:26,120
Speaker 1: So Sey and the sergeant started yelling accusations at each other,

866
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:29,680
Speaker 1: bakering so furiously that the judge immediately ended the session.

867
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:32,000
Speaker 1: He ordered the police to return the ring to Zoe.

868
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:34,680
Speaker 1: And I love that the judge just being like totally

869
00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:37,160
Speaker 1: not giving a fuck about the case and just giving up, like, please,

870
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:38,239
Speaker 1: I got other shit to do.

871
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:40,640
Speaker 2: Can you just I have a headache, I.

872
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:43,120
Speaker 1: Have a five pm meeting at Soggy Bottomsworth. Please let's

873
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:47,040
Speaker 1: get this going. Okay. So, after her release, The Tabloi

874
00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:49,880
Speaker 1: writer worked with Zoe to ghost write a memoir that

875
00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:55,279
Speaker 1: was published in nineteen sixty four called Woman of the Underworld. Ooh, okay,

876
00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 1: great title, it's great. That's a good title. It brought

877
00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:00,600
Speaker 1: Zoe plenty of press attention and a few TV appearances

878
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:02,640
Speaker 1: in the sixties. And why wouldn't it, you know? The

879
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:06,960
Speaker 1: memoir included some really wild stories of orgies and various

880
00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:09,480
Speaker 1: night clubs across London, of the drug culture, of the

881
00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:12,880
Speaker 1: club scene, and much much more. Right, Yeah, So recently,

882
00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:15,319
Speaker 1: Zoe's family has said that none of that was actually true,

883
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:17,080
Speaker 1: and that was actually made up by a coast writer

884
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:19,480
Speaker 1: who worked with Zody to make sure that the story

885
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:21,120
Speaker 1: would sell. But I would like to believe that there

886
00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:22,760
Speaker 1: were a bunch of orgies that she attended.

887
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:26,839
Speaker 2: Well, okay, one her family would say that that's right, Yeah, okay,

888
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:31,240
Speaker 2: sure we know Zoe. And two okay, so she embellished

889
00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:34,719
Speaker 2: a little, so what she stole some ideas whatever, But like,

890
00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:39,000
Speaker 2: this woman is a seasoned criminal, right, Like, why would

891
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 2: you tell the truth in your memoir? What's the point?

892
00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:43,040
Speaker 1: Who's going to check? There's no receipts back then? You

893
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:44,719
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, So it's just like, have at it.

894
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:47,080
Speaker 2: What You're going to pay someone to fact check your memoir?

895
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:49,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, I go, well, yeah, you guys couldn't even catch

896
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:52,319
Speaker 1: me while starting drinking martinis and bars and shit.

897
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:54,080
Speaker 2: Prove I didn't have an orgy.

898
00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:58,000
Speaker 1: Prove it, prove it. Ask everybody in London if I

899
00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:01,480
Speaker 1: haven't had sex with them. Of course, her memoir ends

900
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:04,520
Speaker 1: up with how deeply Soy regretted her crimes, but her

901
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:07,239
Speaker 1: family actually says in this I believe that that was wrong.

902
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:11,480
Speaker 1: One writer interviewed Zoe's daughter and granddaughters in twenty nineteen.

903
00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:13,880
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and they said that she was proud of

904
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:16,120
Speaker 1: her exploits to the end of her day. Yeah, but

905
00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:18,440
Speaker 1: she was. And as for Holloway Prison, it closed in

906
00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:22,080
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen to be rebuilt and transformed into a rehabilitation

907
00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:25,040
Speaker 1: center and housing center for women as a part of

908
00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:28,400
Speaker 1: a transformative justice campaign, which is kind of cool. Oh. Also,

909
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:30,920
Speaker 1: you'll be happy to know that the rope ladder has

910
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:43,160
Speaker 1: since been removed. That's our story, Kelsey. What do you think?

911
00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:44,040
Speaker 1: What do you think of Shoe?

912
00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:47,160
Speaker 2: I loved it. I think she's an icon. I think

913
00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:48,400
Speaker 2: that it's too hard to do.

914
00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:51,439
Speaker 1: Chris a mother, She's a sister. She is an Ica.

915
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:55,520
Speaker 2: Bitch lover her child mother beef.

916
00:40:57,239 --> 00:40:59,880
Speaker 1: To be honest, I'm not promoting Burglary, but.

917
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:02,880
Speaker 2: I want to be clear that I am promoting Burglary.

918
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:04,719
Speaker 1: Cosey and in different sizes of the coin on this one.

919
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:06,600
Speaker 1: We've been debating for decades over this.

920
00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:06,879
Speaker 2: Yeah.

921
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:10,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, but but she did what she thought she could

922
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:13,640
Speaker 1: under the circumstances that she was adult and for and

923
00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:15,640
Speaker 1: I see this a lot with these stories that we tell.

924
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:18,600
Speaker 1: If there is a level of genius to all these

925
00:41:18,719 --> 00:41:22,120
Speaker 1: heists that they pull off, and so you know, for

926
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:25,839
Speaker 1: a woman of that time, fighting against misogyny and fighting

927
00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:28,239
Speaker 1: against like having to escape her husband, I think there's

928
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:32,360
Speaker 1: a real resilience in her that I very very vaguely admire.

929
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:33,840
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Lenda Police.

930
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:36,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, she made it work, you know, she figured it out.

931
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:40,399
Speaker 2: And I also think like she was clearly good at it, right,

932
00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:42,880
Speaker 2: Like that is a skill and she.

933
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:47,960
Speaker 1: Was actually the originator of parkour. Yeah, legend has it.

934
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:50,480
Speaker 2: And you know, it is a great lesson to take

935
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:53,000
Speaker 2: away from this to leave the police a note, like

936
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:54,840
Speaker 2: I think if you're going to do a crime, you

937
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:57,880
Speaker 2: should leave the police a note that's funny, like do

938
00:41:57,960 --> 00:41:58,480
Speaker 2: a little bit.

939
00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:00,719
Speaker 1: I would leave it in German, just confuse the funk

940
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:03,160
Speaker 1: out of them. They're like, god, damn it. There it

941
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:09,480
Speaker 1: is translated. They're like, oh my god, his hipsn't lie.

942
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:10,200
Speaker 1: What does this mean?

943
00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:11,319
Speaker 2: What does this mean?

944
00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:14,600
Speaker 1: Kelsea? Thank you so much for being on this show

945
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:15,880
Speaker 1: with us. It is such a pleasure.

946
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:16,719
Speaker 2: So much for having me.

947
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:19,000
Speaker 1: I'm such a fan of your podcast. And also I

948
00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:20,680
Speaker 1: can't wait to check out your new book, which is

949
00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:22,960
Speaker 1: out right now and it's called you Didn't hear this

950
00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:26,640
Speaker 1: from me? Mostly two notes on gossip. It's available anywhere

951
00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:30,080
Speaker 1: you get books, Kelsey. Where else can listeners find you?

952
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:33,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm on all the social media's unfortunately met at

953
00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:36,280
Speaker 2: McKinny Kelsey and I am the host of Normal Gossip

954
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:38,239
Speaker 2: as you can find wherever you listen a podcast, wherever

955
00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:38,839
Speaker 2: you got this one.

956
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:41,359
Speaker 1: There we go. Thank you so much, Kelsey. We'll see

957
00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:50,120
Speaker 1: you next time. Greatest Escapes is a production of iHeartRadio

958
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:53,799
Speaker 1: and Film Nation Entertainment in association with Gilded Audio. Our

959
00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:56,800
Speaker 1: executive producers for me or Turo Castro, Alyssa Martino and

960
00:42:56,880 --> 00:43:00,640
Speaker 1: Milan Papelka from Film Nation Entertainment, Andrew chug and Donaldson

961
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:04,279
Speaker 1: from Gilded Audio, and Dylan Fagan from iHeartRadio. The show

962
00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:06,680
Speaker 1: is produced and edited by Carl Nellis and Ben Chubb,

963
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:10,080
Speaker 1: who are also, respectively, our research overlord and music Overlord.

964
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:13,240
Speaker 1: Our associate producer is Tory Smith, who's our other overlord.

965
00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:17,280
Speaker 1: Nick Dooley is our technical director. Additional editing by Whitney Donaldson.

966
00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:21,480
Speaker 1: Special thanks to Alison Cohen, Dan Welsh, Ben Riizek, Sarah Joyner,

967
00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:40,320
Speaker 1: Nicki Stein, Oliby Canny, and Kelsey Albright. Hey, thank you

968
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:42,120
Speaker 1: so much for listening, and if you're enjoying the show,

969
00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:44,880
Speaker 1: please drop a rating or review. My mom will call

970
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:47,320
Speaker 1: you each personally and thank you, and we'll see you

971
00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:48,200
Speaker 1: all next week