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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeartRadio, Mike,

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Speaker 1: let's talk about proof about evidence. You're a journalist, you

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Speaker 1: know how important that is, especially on something that's tough

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Speaker 1: for a lot of people to swallow, as UFOs UAPs

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Speaker 1: consciousness life after death. You know, you look at cases

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Speaker 1: like tik Tak Gimbal Go Fast. There is evidence if

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Speaker 1: people are inclined to look at it. There's the eyewitness testimony,

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Speaker 1: the pilots, there's a video, there's sensor data that's pretty compelling.

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Speaker 1: Those are some really well documented cases. If you want

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Speaker 1: to be enough of a debunker or a skeptic to

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Speaker 1: dismiss that, so be it. I mean, there's never going

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Speaker 1: to be enough evidence to convince someone even of UFOs

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Speaker 1: let alone. Something is strange and undocumentable, as alien abductions,

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Speaker 1: where people say they're taken on board these craft they

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Speaker 1: have these missing time experiences often have very little in

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Speaker 1: the way of physical evidence to go long with it.

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Speaker 1: What do you say to your colleagues, to your family members,

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Speaker 1: or to your editors who say, what's the proof for

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Speaker 1: all this stuff? Well, you know it's hard, because you

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Speaker 1: know you said, as journalists We always try to get

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Speaker 1: all the as nice facts as we can, right, but

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Speaker 1: with this topic, it really doesn't lend lend it to

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Speaker 1: us that easily. Um, you know, obviously, like you said,

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Speaker 1: you know you reference that the ticktack and the EMICs

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Speaker 1: and the raider data, they have the video evidence that

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Speaker 1: the professional testimonial evidence like that too many is quote

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Speaker 1: unquote proof. Um, that's enough for the New York Times

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Speaker 1: to stake the reputation to run that. It's enough for

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Speaker 1: watching posts and CNN to kind of follow suits so

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Speaker 1: that there's that's proof in in some sorts. But for

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Speaker 1: us as journalists a lot of times it's you know,

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Speaker 1: we're telling the story and it's up for the audience

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Speaker 1: to a side, you know, whether they believe it or not.

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Speaker 1: And that's something you know, I think with a lot

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Speaker 1: of with our topic, that's the best we can do

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Speaker 1: is try to you know, find these people and see

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Speaker 1: if if they're credible to begin with, tell their story,

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Speaker 1: and then it's up to the audience and the side.

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Speaker 1: That's something I try to even to stay with the

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Speaker 1: website punk rocking UFOs dot com with the stories I do,

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Speaker 1: you know, I try to try to do that as well,

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Speaker 1: and even even in my book, you know, some of

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Speaker 1: the stuff I put in there, this stuff that you know,

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Speaker 1: at first, I was like, well, you know, some of

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Speaker 1: this is kind of out there, and even though I

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Speaker 1: vetted some of these people, but it should be up

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Speaker 1: for their reader to the side, you know what, them

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Speaker 1: making a formacision on their own. Yeah. I get really

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Speaker 1: uncomfortable when people ask me, well, what do you believe?

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Speaker 1: Do you believe this is true? Do you believe in UFOs?

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Speaker 1: Of course I don't believe in it. It's not my religion.

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Speaker 1: It's it's not a belief it's this news story for me.

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Speaker 1: You know, I believe there is a good news story there,

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Speaker 1: and it's something that probably involves things that we should

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Speaker 1: all be aware of and think about. But it's not

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Speaker 1: a belief system. It's it's you're trying to follow a

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Speaker 1: trail of breadcrumbs to figure something out. And I'm sure

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Speaker 1: you feel the same way and probably get asked the

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Speaker 1: same thing all the time. Yeah. Absolutely, And it's like,

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Speaker 1: you know, for us, I feel like that show of

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Speaker 1: bread from just keeps getting bigger and bigger. When you

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Speaker 1: think you know, you know it all over, you're zeroing

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Speaker 1: in on it. It kind of takes another turn, But

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Speaker 1: I think that's part of the journey, you know, it's

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Speaker 1: just kind of just learning more and just seeing where

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Speaker 1: it goes because none of us have the answers, and

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Speaker 1: I don't think any of us are gonna find the

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Speaker 1: answers overnight. But it's like, if you look at just

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Speaker 1: three years of uree UFO research, how far we've gone

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Speaker 1: and potentially where it could go next. I think it's

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Speaker 1: it's a very exciting time as we're in. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's it's if you have to explain too that the

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Speaker 1: truth is elusive, that proof and evidence is elusive because

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Speaker 1: the phenomena is intelligent. It doesn't necessarily want to serve

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Speaker 1: up understanding on a silver platter. It wants us to

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Speaker 1: work at it. At least that's my sense of it,

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Speaker 1: to try to figure things out. Um, you know, I

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Speaker 1: don't really there's people don't want to accept that. They

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Speaker 1: just wave their hand and walk away when you tell

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Speaker 1: them that kind of stuff, But it does. That's the

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Speaker 1: way it works out. I mean, I'm thinking of Skinwalker Ridge,

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Speaker 1: which you cover in your book Stranger than Fiction. You

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Speaker 1: get into it, how weird that place is and how

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Speaker 1: elusive the phenomena can be at times. Yeah. Absolutely, and

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Speaker 1: you've experienced it, you know, firsthand with your book, which

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Speaker 1: is one of my favorites. Us with the Hump, the

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Speaker 1: skin Walker. And one of the scientists I interviewed was

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Speaker 1: the Travis Taylor who was on the show as well

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Speaker 1: and m you know, he was the least scientist on there,

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Speaker 1: and he came in he wanted to do real heart

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Speaker 1: science and he saw a play out on the show,

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Speaker 1: and I was thoroughly impressed that a lot of it

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Speaker 1: wasn't just for TV. You know, they did do a

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Speaker 1: lot of science on television. But yeah, he came in,

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Speaker 1: you know, and a lot of people didn't know this

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Speaker 1: until I interviewed him, but you know, he's a science

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Speaker 1: fiction writer too, so he's already into the stuff. So

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Speaker 1: but him as a scientist, wanted then try to prove

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Speaker 1: it and see what's possible, because a lot of like

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Speaker 1: you know, science fiction is just you know, imagining what

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Speaker 1: is possible. And then sometimes you know that science fiction

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Speaker 1: becomes a reality with you know, in the future, with

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Speaker 1: technological advances as well. I think it was fascinating, you know,

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Speaker 1: that he was the only scientists on the case if

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Speaker 1: he came in even with the science fiction background as well,

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Speaker 1: but you know, he wanted to come in and do

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Speaker 1: hard science, and he wasn't for the most part, wasn't

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Speaker 1: able to get the results. Because the phenomenon, whatever it was,

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Speaker 1: was intelligent. What does not allowed it to happen? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean it's you know, you tell somebody that going

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Speaker 1: into it, they don't want to believe it. They don't

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Speaker 1: believe it. I can tell you from personal experience they

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Speaker 1: reject that premise. But in fact, whatever it is that's

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Speaker 1: there is intelligent, and it's elusive, and it plays games

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Speaker 1: with you. It's a trickster, and it seems to know

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Speaker 1: what people are going to do before people do it.

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Speaker 1: It messes with equipment, It drains batteries, it breaks cameras.

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Speaker 1: It it does all kinds of things in a physical

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Speaker 1: realm and then in a non physical realm, And if

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Speaker 1: you're not ready to follow the evidence or lack thereof

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Speaker 1: where it leads, you're not going to get anywhere. I

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Speaker 1: respect Travis Taylor for admitting that because it's the same

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Speaker 1: thing that happened to Bigelow's team, both the NIDS team

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Speaker 1: and then the as app investigators who are part of

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Speaker 1: the DA study. They're there four years. They experienced these

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Speaker 1: things themselves, and they find out that this thing is

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Speaker 1: always one step ahead of them. Hard to tell someone

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Speaker 1: that that is true, but in fact, that is what happened.

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Speaker 1: And Travis Taylor not only experienced that for himself, but

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Speaker 1: he had physical effects from his time on the ranch.

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Speaker 1: I did not know he was a sci fi writer,

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Speaker 1: but it occurred to me as I read that in

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Speaker 1: your book that I wonder if that will hurt his

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Speaker 1: credibility the same way it hurt Whitley Strieber. He's a novelist.

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Speaker 1: He wrote The Wolf, and he must have made this

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Speaker 1: whole thing up, you know what I mean. Yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: that's one of the points of my book. I really

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Speaker 1: wanted to make clear that there is an intersect in

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Speaker 1: between fiction and non fiction, right, and a lot of

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Speaker 1: people always look at it from this perspective of oh,

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Speaker 1: it's you know, they're just trying to blur the lines.

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Speaker 1: But the lines have been blurred throughout time. They're just

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Speaker 1: you know, when you put that blurring the lines, it's

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Speaker 1: almost like a negative time nations. But fiction and non

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Speaker 1: fiction have been intercepting and borrowing with each other forever

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Speaker 1: um And that was one of the goals of the

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Speaker 1: book is to kind of really pinpoint you know, certain

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Speaker 1: uh pop culture, pop culture franchises and characters and try

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Speaker 1: to tie it to potentially a real origin or um

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Speaker 1: a real case. You know. I bring up Stranger Things

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Speaker 1: because that's a huge show. Kids love it. So if

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Speaker 1: the kid takes in my book and reads it, oh,

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Speaker 1: I love Stranger Things, and they say, oh, wow, Matak's

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Speaker 1: natural real place and you know, these these studies apparently

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Speaker 1: really existed, so then maybe that kid will want to

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Speaker 1: you know, explore that on their own then or even

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm a big comic book guy, and a

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Speaker 1: lot of umolt the mythos of comic book characters are

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Speaker 1: all kind of based in this um this you know,

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Speaker 1: mythology in itself. So to me, it's you know, I

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Speaker 1: really wanted to readers to make those connections too. Like

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Speaker 1: I didn't list every character or every every story because

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Speaker 1: you know, predominant. I wanted, you know, something, the reader

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Speaker 1: to kind of make that on their own. Like the summer,

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Speaker 1: my wife and I we rewatched all the Marvel movies,

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Speaker 1: and when I was rewatching, I was like, oh man,

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Speaker 1: I totally could have put that in my book. Was like,

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Speaker 1: you know what, I think that's that's good that I

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Speaker 1: left out something or I forgot to put in something.

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Speaker 1: It's because that's up for the readers. Then to still

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Speaker 1: in those blanks, Well, you make comparisons too, that are

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Speaker 1: you might end up with a flaming cross on your

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Speaker 1: on your lawn some night. But I mean of Superman

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Speaker 1: and superheroes from comic books and biblical figures, the comparisons

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Speaker 1: between them, and then tie it together with UFO lare

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Speaker 1: as well, yeah, and that's one of them. So one

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Speaker 1: of the things I really like to talk about is,

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Speaker 1: you know, the idea of Superman UM has this you know,

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Speaker 1: this godlike alien being um and if he came, if

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Speaker 1: he existed, how would he be treated? And I think

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Speaker 1: Zack Snyder did a really good job of portraying that

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Speaker 1: in bat name for Superman and potentially his next Justice

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Speaker 1: League film coming out there the Snyder test Um. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's true though, if Superman existed in a real world,

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Speaker 1: what would he how would he be viewed basically the

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Speaker 1: same way that he was viewed they kill them um,

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Speaker 1: And I definitely see parallels in that, you know, where

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Speaker 1: we see nowadays of how people are treated in general,

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Speaker 1: people who are different as well. And you know, one

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Speaker 1: of the things that I'll available through um really Warner

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Speaker 1: was this idea of tying together. You know, all these

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Speaker 1: commonalities I saw and you know, Superman wears this s

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Speaker 1: on his chest and it's in an upside down triangle,

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Speaker 1: and then the comics that S stands I mean in

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Speaker 1: the movies A stands for hope, but that upside down

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Speaker 1: triangle is on his chest. And if you know, you

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Speaker 1: know a lot of people have had UFO abduction experiences

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Speaker 1: have always said that they've seen an alien with a

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Speaker 1: triangle on their chest. Uh. And what does the triangle represent?

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Speaker 1: You know, religion potentially represents this idea of the trinity.

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Speaker 1: You have a man, Holy Spirit, and God. And then

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Speaker 1: in DC comics you have Trinity which is wonder Woman.

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Speaker 1: Batman is Superman, so you have Batman man, you have Superman.

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Speaker 1: Um technically you know this the Holy Spirit and then

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Speaker 1: Wonder Woman's like a godlike figure. So you see all

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Speaker 1: these you know, all these commonalities just kind of crossed

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Speaker 1: through all different um elements of pop culture, mythology and religion,

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Speaker 1: and there's you know, you could draw so many connections.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about your sighting, because we kind of breezed

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Speaker 1: right over that. What did you see? What was the experience?

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Speaker 1: I was beyond just seeing something in the sky at

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Speaker 1: anything else. It was the traditional orbs, orbs moving in

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Speaker 1: in a crazy way and then just you know, darting

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Speaker 1: out out of sight. But it's funny because you know,

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Speaker 1: to me, I always thought this is such a rare

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Speaker 1: thing until I saw it myself, and even um, a

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Speaker 1: couple of years ago, I was in Chicago with my

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Speaker 1: wife and we were on a boat tour and uh,

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Speaker 1: they said they saw something and at first time they

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Speaker 1: were messing with me. So the first thing I did,

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Speaker 1: you know, I took out my journalist at I start

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Speaker 1: interview other people on the boat, and other people saw

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Speaker 1: it too. Oh you must have been mister popularity on

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Speaker 1: the boat. Then yeah, so I I you know, I

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Speaker 1: wrote a story about it, and then next you know,

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Speaker 1: a few months later, somebody emailed me saying, hey, I

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Speaker 1: just read your story. I was on a flight from

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Speaker 1: Michigan flying that night and I saw the same sighting

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Speaker 1: from my airplane. So it's crazy. How you know how

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Speaker 1: really commonly, you know, these sightings really are and it's

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Speaker 1: you know, you feel special when you see it. But

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Speaker 1: you know, so many people have these sightings. Like for me,

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Speaker 1: I'm a teacher, and uh I did a seminar on

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Speaker 1: UFOs for my colleagues last year. I had people come

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Speaker 1: forward saying, oh, I've I've seen stuff before. And I

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Speaker 1: had one of them who actually came by afterwards and said, hey,

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Speaker 1: you know I've had experiences like not just sightings, you know,

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Speaker 1: but she was terrified to tell people. And you know,

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Speaker 1: if it takes you know, myself or you know, anyone else,

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Speaker 1: you know, speaking about this freely to then empower somebody,

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Speaker 1: so they kind of come forward with their sightings, I

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Speaker 1: think that's great. Yeah, and the numbers, I mean, it's

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Speaker 1: it's hard to really get a solid estimate on how

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Speaker 1: many people have had these experiences because so many won't

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Speaker 1: say it. Now you had a colleague come forward and

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Speaker 1: tell you about it, there's probably other colleagues that you

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Speaker 1: had that had experiences that didn't come and tell you

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Speaker 1: about it, but they've shared it with their families. It's

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Speaker 1: the same as true in government and in the military.

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Speaker 1: You know, if you have. I know you've had conversations

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Speaker 1: with the TTSA guys and they will tell you from

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Speaker 1: their time on the inside. There are people in high

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Speaker 1: levels at the Pentagon and government who've had these experiences

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Speaker 1: who would not dream of ever telling anybody about it

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Speaker 1: or putting it on the record, right, Yeah, absolutely, And

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Speaker 1: that's why I think the ones who are coming out,

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Speaker 1: I think that shows their their bravery, but only that,

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Speaker 1: I think it's just they understand the importance of it.

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Speaker 1: You know, these are people willing to risk their careers

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Speaker 1: and to kind of get this out there. So I

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Speaker 1: think it's it's fascinating to how you know, some of

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Speaker 1: them had NBA, some of them didn't. So it's always

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Speaker 1: like maybe somebody's pushing, you know, for this to get

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Speaker 1: out there. But you know, I think for us has

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Speaker 1: been studing this stuff for a long time. You know,

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Speaker 1: we all along, we've kind of knew that there's been

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Speaker 1: UFO programs. But I think it's it's awesome now that

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Speaker 1: there's been official confirmation. Whereas you know, the the common

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Speaker 1: populace knows now too you had a sighting and were

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Speaker 1: there any residual effects anything else that sort of manifested

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Speaker 1: itself in your life, anything that could or could not

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Speaker 1: be related to that experience. Uh No, but you know

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Speaker 1: it's weird, like you know, you read stuff, you read

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Speaker 1: other people stories, like you know, every all whiley Schreiber's

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Speaker 1: books and how he's able to kind of look back

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Speaker 1: in his past and pinpoint something and think, oh, what

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Speaker 1: was that related? And at this weird moment, I was

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Speaker 1: going through, uh, just some old you know. I used

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Speaker 1: to draw comic books as a kid, and I used

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Speaker 1: to write my own like books, just you know, playing around,

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Speaker 1: and I found a literary magazine that I was published in,

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Speaker 1: and what I did is I wrote a little comic

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Speaker 1: strip about an alien abduction. And it was weird to

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Speaker 1: me because I was like, I wasn't even into the

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Speaker 1: stuff then, Like how did I even come up with this?

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Speaker 1: So it's like I'm not saying, like Obydea, I've been inducted,

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Speaker 1: but it's like it I just thought it was funny that,

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Speaker 1: you know, at that young age, I wrote this little

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Speaker 1: alien abduction story with from my recall, very limited exposure

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Speaker 1: to the to the topic maybe outside of like a

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Speaker 1: comic book or something. Well, you know, Superman is an alien, right,

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Speaker 1: he is he is an alien, so it fits. Uh.

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Speaker 1: In writing about aliens and what we perceived to be aliens,

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Speaker 1: you explore some possible explanations that people maybe haven't thought

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Speaker 1: about them as emissaries or messengers, or maybe them as

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Speaker 1: usum a share a sort of the scope of what

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Speaker 1: the options are. Well, I think, you know, we always

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Speaker 1: hear that, you know, they kind of move almost like

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Speaker 1: more mechanical than biological, So people think, oh, well, could

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Speaker 1: they be robots? Could they be us from the future.

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Speaker 1: But then you also hear, you know, there's various different

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Speaker 1: species and races, so it's like, but which ones are

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Speaker 1: closest to us where they come from? And one of

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Speaker 1: the things I theorize is, you know, there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of people have these experiences they always describe as angelic,

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Speaker 1: you know, and you hear you know, before there as

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Speaker 1: we knew what quote unquote aliens were. You know, you

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Speaker 1: hear it Sumerian texts and biblical pastures as well as

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Speaker 1: as beings from the sky coming down. And uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: you know, in a weird perverted sense, because they be angels,

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Speaker 1: you know almost if you think almost the way they

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Speaker 1: watch over us, you would think almost like a Guardian

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Speaker 1: angels um as well. So it's like, you know, there's

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Speaker 1: just so many theories out there, and it's like it's

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Speaker 1: hard to just credit, you know, um any of them

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Speaker 1: because I think they all have some uh some some

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Speaker 1: weight to argue, you know it. Are our aliens from

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Speaker 1: other planets? Are they biological? Are they are they us?

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Speaker 1: Are they from the future? Are they you know, are

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Speaker 1: they our consciousness? Like there's just so many various avenues

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Speaker 1: to go down. It's like there's so many rabbit holes

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Speaker 1: to go down. But I don't think we could dismiss

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Speaker 1: any of them. I think, you know, look into all

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Speaker 1: of them. Yeah, I mean I remember about the ranch,

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Speaker 1: you know, the program being killed, the DA program, the

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Speaker 1: money was pulled because some people at the Pentagon thought

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Speaker 1: it was satanic, it was evil, there were demons out there.

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Speaker 1: I guess if you can say it might be angels,

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Speaker 1: it could also maybe be demons. And I would have

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Speaker 1: been inclined to sort of scop at that. But I

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Speaker 1: don't know. I have to admit I really don't know

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Speaker 1: what's going on out there, what the intelligence is, and

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Speaker 1: neither does anyone else. You know, you had you mentioned

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Speaker 1: in your book about these old cave drawings, the oldest

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Speaker 1: cave art I think in history as shows sort of

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Speaker 1: a shape shifter, monsters that change their shape. Right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's almost it's like what we would know in Greek mythologies,

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Speaker 1: like a minotaur or you know, one of those half

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Speaker 1: man half these creatures. It's like, it's interesting to me

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Speaker 1: that you know, that's what they choose to draw, just

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Speaker 1: like some of the early Sumarian texts. You know, they

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Speaker 1: were recording history, they weren't wasting those tablets on on fiction.

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Speaker 1: So it's like people reporting what they were seeing, so

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Speaker 1: assassinating what you see on cave drawings, it's what you

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Speaker 1: see in you in the Egyptian pyramids. It's very deliberate.

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Speaker 1: This idea of machine intelligence. I had mentioned it in

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Speaker 1: reference to a story that we posted on the Coast

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Speaker 1: website about this new paper that some astrophysicists and astrobiologists

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Speaker 1: have speculated what life on other planets could be like,

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Speaker 1: and they theorize it could be a machine intelligence, that

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Speaker 1: biological entities evolve into machines. And that sounds hard to believe,

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Speaker 1: except we're doing it right now. We're basically becoming cyborgs.

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Speaker 1: And if or when Ray Kirschwall's prediction about the singularity

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Speaker 1: comes true, the idea would be that we can achieve

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Speaker 1: immortality basically by uploading our consciousness to a computer, and

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Speaker 1: then whatever physical tasks we need to get done, we

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Speaker 1: can build robots to put our brains into it. And

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Speaker 1: I know it's a it's a trope of sci fi,

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Speaker 1: but we're not that far off from being able to

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Speaker 1: accomplish some of it. Yeah. Absolutely, And some of the

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Speaker 1: tropes of science fiction in the sixties and fifties are

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Speaker 1: now reality. You know, if you watch Black Mirror and

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Speaker 1: you know, they talk about implanting consciousness into you know, computers,

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Speaker 1: and it's like, are they really that far off, you know,

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Speaker 1: giving a show about that, a fictional I show, No,

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Speaker 1: they're really not. Listen to more Coast to Coast AM

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Speaker 1: every weeknight at one am Eastern and go to Coast

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Speaker 1: to Coast am dot com for more