Speaker 1: Now from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg's sound on
Speaker 1: Iranian military personnel. We're on the ground in Crimea and
Speaker 1: assisted Russia in these operations. We continue to see Iran
Speaker 1: be complicit in terms of exporting terror. Now also to Ukraine.
Speaker 1: Plutin has no interest to show no interest in any
Speaker 1: kind of diplomatic movement. Bloomberg Sound on Politics, Policy and
Speaker 1: perspective from DC's top names. This illegitimate regime. Their judgment
Speaker 1: day is on a November. There are individuals who didn't
Speaker 1: come before our committee. Bloomberg Sound On with Joe Matthew
Speaker 1: on Bloomberg Radio. Iranian boots on the ground in Ukraine.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the fastest hour in politics. As the White
Speaker 1: House says, the troops were sent there to help Russia
Speaker 1: use their new drones, the same Kama Kaze drones use
Speaker 1: against civilians. This week, we'll have the latest from Washington
Speaker 1: and insights ahead from William Taylor, former US ambassador to Ukraine.
Speaker 1: Later Steve Bannon gets four months in prison the same
Speaker 1: day Donald Trump is subpoena to testify before the January
Speaker 1: six Committee. We'll talk about both with Bloomberg. Washington reporter
Speaker 1: Mike Dorning and as President Biden predicts Democrats will keep
Speaker 1: Congress in the midterms. Will get analysis from our signature
Speaker 1: panel a Friday with Bloomberg Politics contributors Rick Davis and
Speaker 1: Jeanie Schanzano. We know Russia has been using drones provided
Speaker 1: by Iran to target civilians. Over the past week. We've
Speaker 1: seen horrifying images and read terrifying stories for harrowing accounts.
Speaker 1: The US says, though, that not only have Iranian drones
Speaker 1: been used by Russia, and that's not real news, this
Speaker 1: has been around for a bit. The Iranians themselves are
Speaker 1: there Iranian boots on the ground in Russia occupied areas
Speaker 1: of Ukraine. Here, State Department spokesman Ned Price, we assess
Speaker 1: that Iranian personnel, Iranian military personnel, we're on the ground
Speaker 1: in Crimea and assisted Russia in these operations. Russia denies
Speaker 1: it's even using Iranian made drones, which did not keep
Speaker 1: the European Union from announcing new sanctions sanctions on an
Speaker 1: Iranian aerospace company and three Iranian generals for providing them.
Speaker 1: Pentagon spokesman Brigadier General Pat Ryder says this this new
Speaker 1: Iranian element has not, however, been enough to turn the
Speaker 1: tide here he is from a strategic standpoint, it still
Speaker 1: doesn't change the fact that Russian forces on the ground
Speaker 1: continue to lose territory or at best, hole ground. But
Speaker 1: more drones are coming from Iran is the word today
Speaker 1: from Secretary of State Anthony Blincoln, making things ever more
Speaker 1: complex in Ukraine. This idea of Iranian boots on the ground.
Speaker 1: Let's bring in William Taylor, who I know has strong
Speaker 1: feelings about all of this, the former U s Ambassador
Speaker 1: to Ukraine now Vice President Russia and Europe at the
Speaker 1: US Institute of Peace. Ambassador, Well, come back to Bloomberg.
Speaker 1: How significant is it to have Iranian trainers inside Ukraine,
Speaker 1: whether it's called Russian occupied Ukraine or not. So Joe,
Speaker 1: it's it is significant, um and and the significance is
Speaker 1: demonstrates what trouble, what difficulty you want to bind Russia
Speaker 1: is in. So Russia does not have the ability to
Speaker 1: manufacture weapons of precision guided munitions. Why because they don't
Speaker 1: have the components. They can't import the components. United States
Speaker 1: and other nations have denied them and denied the Russians,
Speaker 1: so they have to go other places. And apparently they've
Speaker 1: gone to Iran apparently they've gone to North Korea. That's
Speaker 1: what they're that's they're reduced. So it is significant. We've
Speaker 1: kept a distance though, with all of the hardware that
Speaker 1: we have provided Ukraine. We pull Ukrainians out of the
Speaker 1: country and bring them to NATO countries like Poland or
Speaker 1: Romania to train them and send them back. Now Russia,
Speaker 1: of course, you know, there's a lot of gray area here.
Speaker 1: Russia just brings the Iranians right into Ukraine, but they
Speaker 1: do it in areas that they call Russia, and I
Speaker 1: suspect we'll see this in other zones as well. But
Speaker 1: it increases the risk level, Right if we get into
Speaker 1: a direct engagement or if Ukraine US in a direct
Speaker 1: engagement with Iranian forces, doesn't that change the game? I'm
Speaker 1: not sure it changes the game? Um, but well, um,
Speaker 1: if the Iranian forces are in let's stay Crimea, which
Speaker 1: we recognize and the world recognize this as part of Ukraine.
Speaker 1: We know that the Ukrainians, apparently without our weapons on
Speaker 1: using their own weapons, have struck targets, military targets inside
Speaker 1: of Crimea. So the Iranians are taking some risk in
Speaker 1: basing in Crimea. And and having the training go on
Speaker 1: there to help the Russians figure out how to use
Speaker 1: these drones. There's some risk the the they're vulnerable to
Speaker 1: attack from the Ukrainians. We're seeing drone warfare perfected in
Speaker 1: this conflict, certainly advanced the way the Ukrainians had used
Speaker 1: drones to sink the flagship uh ship in the in
Speaker 1: the Black Sea, that Russian ship, the way that they
Speaker 1: have used them to protect themselves as well. I spoke
Speaker 1: earlier this week with of all people, Mark Hamill, that
Speaker 1: the actor Luke Skywalker, who's signed on as Ukraine's so
Speaker 1: called ambassador of drones. Maybe you guys will get together
Speaker 1: at a cocktail party or something. Ambassador, but he's helping
Speaker 1: to raise money for drones and to get donations of
Speaker 1: drones for Ukraine. Listen to the way he put it,
Speaker 1: Ukraine needs drones, and you know they define war outcomes.
Speaker 1: They are they protect their land, their people there, they
Speaker 1: monitor the border, their their eyes in the sky, and
Speaker 1: not just we're not just looking for volnetary contributions, but
Speaker 1: if you have an actual drone. I saw that. I
Speaker 1: was really shocked, because I mean, they give me these
Speaker 1: updates at least two or three times a week about
Speaker 1: what's going on, and they said that they've received over
Speaker 1: five drones. Incredible. I started this. I know he's obviously
Speaker 1: doing what he can to help. And that's all for
Speaker 1: United twenty four, this government program to raise money for
Speaker 1: these types of things for Ukraine. Ambassador Taylor. I just
Speaker 1: wonder what this leads to, uh, in sort of a
Speaker 1: new generation of warfare. So it is a new generation,
Speaker 1: new generation, Joe. You're exactly right, Um, And both sides,
Speaker 1: as you say, are using these drones. Um. The Ukrainians
Speaker 1: are using these drones to to direct their artillery, and
Speaker 1: their artillery has been enhanced as we know, by the
Speaker 1: Americans and by other other NATO nations to give them
Speaker 1: the ability to strike deep. The Ukrainians the ability to
Speaker 1: strike deep, and in order to strike deep with accuracy,
Speaker 1: they need to know exactly where the targets are, so
Speaker 1: the drones give them that ability, UM. And the drones
Speaker 1: also are very valuable in identifying other targets that are
Speaker 1: that are on the front lot. So yes, uh, and
Speaker 1: these could be civilian drones. UM. The eyes, um, and
Speaker 1: that that we're talking about here are very valuable for
Speaker 1: in the military but they don't have to, they don't
Speaker 1: have to be weaponized. They've been incredible in in evening
Speaker 1: the playing field. And what has been, or at least
Speaker 1: was at first perceived to be a David and Goliath conflict.
Speaker 1: You can judge for yourself if it still is. But
Speaker 1: John Kirby, the retired admiral now speaking for the National
Speaker 1: Security Council. Admiral says they will consider new sanctions against
Speaker 1: Iran because of this revelation. What would those sanctions look like?
Speaker 1: Would it matter? Probably would matter. It's a strong signal.
Speaker 1: The sanctions that we already have on Iran, like the
Speaker 1: ones we have on Russia, do have an effect. Um.
Speaker 1: They send a message that you're not at you. If
Speaker 1: you're an official Irani in official or Russian official responsible
Speaker 1: for these war crimes or this war, this unprovoked war
Speaker 1: that the Russians are fighting, then you're subject to being sanctioned.
Speaker 1: The real sanctions, though, Joe, are the are the ones
Speaker 1: on the economy, on the Russian economy in particular. Um,
Speaker 1: And of course the Irans have known what that is,
Speaker 1: and that is that is hurting the Russian ability to
Speaker 1: continue to pursue this war. So when's the time for
Speaker 1: a serious conversation about secondary sanctions. And I know everyone
Speaker 1: in Washington is kind of afraid to talk about that,
Speaker 1: But isn't that where we're going here, whether it's Iran
Speaker 1: or China, wherever it's trying to help Russia, it absolutely is,
Speaker 1: It absolutely is, And you're right to bring up China.
Speaker 1: China is a very interesting case. They while they professed
Speaker 1: before the war, before the Russians invaded Ukraine, the Chinese
Speaker 1: and Russians, that is, the President She and President Puttin
Speaker 1: got together and they said they were gonna work together.
Speaker 1: There's no limit to their cooperation. But we remember this
Speaker 1: whereever it is comment however, eve of the war, because
Speaker 1: on the eve of the war is at the at
Speaker 1: the Olympics, the opening of the Olympics. Exactly right, And um,
Speaker 1: the Russians have been disappointed at the support that they're
Speaker 1: not getting from the Chinese. The Russians have wanted financial
Speaker 1: support or on the topic that we're talking about now,
Speaker 1: the Russians have wanted the Chinese to help the Russians
Speaker 1: get around evade these sanctions, and the and the Chinese
Speaker 1: have said no, they're not going to do it. Why
Speaker 1: secondary sanctions. They don't want to be sanctioned for breaking
Speaker 1: these these sanctions on the Russians. They've got enough trouble
Speaker 1: with the United States at the moment. Can we assume
Speaker 1: the Irun nuclear deal is dead? My asking you a
Speaker 1: dumb question here, No, you're not asking a dub question
Speaker 1: at all. It sounds like there's not much interest on
Speaker 1: our side with this stuff going on. How does that
Speaker 1: even how is that even possible? Exactly? How do you
Speaker 1: how do you have a negotiation with someone who is
Speaker 1: arming the Ukrainians in support of the Russians. But it's
Speaker 1: also complicated where the Russian the Russian has been part,
Speaker 1: you know, supportive of this deal and now probably not
Speaker 1: so much. Yeah, what is this going to look like?
Speaker 1: Between now? In winter? Ambassadors? So much is said and
Speaker 1: I know that you're not a you're not a general,
Speaker 1: you're an ambassador, but so much is said about the
Speaker 1: closing window because of the season. We're talking about the
Speaker 1: use of drones in a lot of creative ways by
Speaker 1: certainly at least Ukraine, in some deadly ways by Russia.
Speaker 1: But how can Ukraine continue to close the gap before
Speaker 1: it gets too cold? The right question, that's exactly the
Speaker 1: right question, Joe. And the real key m The real
Speaker 1: important factor on the ground in Ukraine is infantry, is
Speaker 1: soldiers um. And the soldiers are the ones that are
Speaker 1: moving the boundaries, that are pushing the Russians back. Um.
Speaker 1: The artillery is important to help them do that. The
Speaker 1: drones are important for the artillery, like we were just saying,
Speaker 1: But it's really the the Ukrainian military on the ground
Speaker 1: that is steadily in some case, is rapidly pushing the
Speaker 1: Russians back out of their country. This is going very rapidly,
Speaker 1: as we've seen. It's a route in the north, it's
Speaker 1: it's a it's it's it's still moving in the south,
Speaker 1: not as fast. But what might happen? What we should
Speaker 1: keep our eye on, his hair Song that this city
Speaker 1: down there, it's on the west side of this river,
Speaker 1: of the of the main river, Nipper River that's going
Speaker 1: down towards the Black Sea, and the hair soon has
Speaker 1: about twenty thousand Russian soldiers there that are about to
Speaker 1: be cut off, Joe. If they're cut off, they're surrounded,
Speaker 1: they don't have a way to get out, and they
Speaker 1: don't have a way to resupply. They're in trouble. He
Speaker 1: knows Ukraine as well as anyone we can talk to
Speaker 1: on Bloomberg. William Taylor, many thanks, should have his own broadcast.
Speaker 1: I could listen to you all day, former US Ambassador
Speaker 1: to Ukraine, now at the US Institute of Peace and
Speaker 1: kicking off the fastest hour in politics on a Friday.
Speaker 1: We've got the panel next time, Joe Matthew, This is Bloomberg.
Speaker 1: You're listening to Bloomberg Sound with Joe Matthew on Bloombird Radio.
Speaker 1: You know that conversation with Mark Hamill that we had
Speaker 1: earlier this week, the ambassador of drones has gone viral online.
Speaker 1: Even the Russian Embassy was tweeting about it today. We
Speaker 1: know they're listening right now. Maybe we should do a
Speaker 1: remote right over there on Wisconsin Avenue. Yeah, really, the
Speaker 1: Russian embassy tweeting some upset about the shirt. I guess
Speaker 1: that President Zelenski was wearing in one of the many
Speaker 1: pickups that we got. Man, everybody got clicks on that one.
Speaker 1: Everyone got a piece of Mark Hamill saying that five
Speaker 1: hundred drones now have already been gathered on behalf Ukraine.
Speaker 1: We assemble the panel and it's great to have Rick
Speaker 1: Davis back with us, and of course Jeanie Chanzano. Our
Speaker 1: signature panel wouldn't be really Friday without both of them
Speaker 1: together here Bloomberg Politics Contributors, Rick, welcome back. When you
Speaker 1: hear this idea about Iranian boots and I don't know,
Speaker 1: you know, we're we're talking about trainers here, It's not
Speaker 1: like they've got infantry running around, but Iranian operatives whatever
Speaker 1: you want to call them, on the ground in Ukraine.
Speaker 1: Isn't that upping the anti uh? Yeah? And I think
Speaker 1: we just need a level set this too. There's a
Speaker 1: u N ban as Security Council ban on the transfer
Speaker 1: of weapons like these that the Iranians have sent to
Speaker 1: Russia or sent to Ukraine on behalf of the Russians.
Speaker 1: So it's not like just this is some kind of
Speaker 1: a transaction. They're violating u N. Security Council rules against
Speaker 1: the transport of these kinds of weapons. And then you
Speaker 1: add insult to injury by flaunting that that that ignorance
Speaker 1: of of of the law by then sending operatives there.
Speaker 1: And it shouldn't shock any of us that the Russians
Speaker 1: didn't know how to use a controller, right, I mean
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's just it's just more evidence that
Speaker 1: the Russian military is really you know, stone age, and
Speaker 1: they're thinking, and so now they've got to send these Iranians.
Speaker 1: And and we should also remember that while all this
Speaker 1: is going on, where the arrange exporting this kind of terror,
Speaker 1: they're also creating a crackdown at home against legitimate democracy
Speaker 1: protesters who are tired of a repressive regime. So, you know,
Speaker 1: it's one of the worst regimes in the world right now.
Speaker 1: And and and and frankly, I don't think the world
Speaker 1: is doing enough to sanction Iran, both because of the
Speaker 1: export of terror and the skies over Ukraine, but also
Speaker 1: the way they're treating their own people at home. We
Speaker 1: should be clear, this information is coming from the White House, Genie,
Speaker 1: it's not like Russia announced this. In fact, listen to
Speaker 1: h ned Price again, the spokesman for the State Department.
Speaker 1: Russia and Iran continue to lie, continue to claim that
Speaker 1: there's no they're there. Uh. The Iranians continue to claim
Speaker 1: that they are not providing this material. Uh. And for
Speaker 1: indisputable proof to continue to emerge. So you want to
Speaker 1: believe me or you're lying eyes Genie, that's right, and
Speaker 1: and and the EU said they're putting new sanctions on
Speaker 1: They describe these as kami kaze drones um that Russia
Speaker 1: has used. And let's not forget the pact of this.
Speaker 1: Now of the civilian energy has been destroyed or impacted
Speaker 1: by this. The latest reports about their their mining this
Speaker 1: area around this hydroelectric power plant, this dam that they
Speaker 1: are threatening to blow up, and they're not sure you
Speaker 1: know if or when that's going to happen, but certainly
Speaker 1: that is a big threat, the damage to the civilian infrastructure,
Speaker 1: but civilians on the ground, this is a real attempt
Speaker 1: at a war of attrition on Russia's part, being aided
Speaker 1: by Iran. At the same time, as Rick mentioned, while
Speaker 1: these protests by dissidents are going on in around and
Speaker 1: you've got the Biden administration engaging in talks with Elon
Speaker 1: Musk to provide some kind of starling satellite inside around
Speaker 1: to support protesters there. So it's a very complicated set
Speaker 1: of situation, set of circumstances. Rather, and the Russians relentless
Speaker 1: focus on civilians and civilian infrastructure is something that if
Speaker 1: they aren't stopped, could really result in great danger that's
Speaker 1: that's the reality on the ground there. Genie's referring to
Speaker 1: a story, by the way, that actually was came from
Speaker 1: President Zelenski himself. He claims that Russia has mind a
Speaker 1: major hydro electric damn in in Ukraine. In the Ukraine
Speaker 1: that that that would flood dozens of towns if they
Speaker 1: blew this thing. It could be if this happens, a
Speaker 1: horrifying development in the war. But the drones were talking
Speaker 1: about rick, these Kama Kazi drones. I thought it was
Speaker 1: interesting to read on the terminal that you know, we've
Speaker 1: actually managed to get these materials so we could take
Speaker 1: a look at them. You know, some of the drones
Speaker 1: that that have been shot down and have or or
Speaker 1: or have some pieces left from after they blow up,
Speaker 1: and we're trying to find vulnerabilities and see how we
Speaker 1: might be able to help defend Ukraine or shoot them down.
Speaker 1: Don't we have all of this technology already well, first
Speaker 1: of all, drone uh drone US as a military weapon,
Speaker 1: especially what they call lord munitions, which is what these are.
Speaker 1: They fly around looking for a target and then go
Speaker 1: kill it. And as as Jenny said, you know that
Speaker 1: that's the Kama Kaze part they blow themselves up. Um,
Speaker 1: it's a relatively new development on the battlefield, right and
Speaker 1: we're seeing it play out for us right in front
Speaker 1: of you, you know, in Ukraine, and so the protections
Speaker 1: against it, the anti drone technology comes in a lot
Speaker 1: of different shapes and sizes, but it hasn't really been
Speaker 1: proven on the battlefield because we haven't really had to
Speaker 1: defend against you know, swarms and loan raiders like these.
Speaker 1: So yes, there are ways, um, both through electronic measures
Speaker 1: disconnecting the operator from the drone it falls out of
Speaker 1: the sky, or you know, different ways of trying to
Speaker 1: actually shoot down the drone. And we see pictures of
Speaker 1: those coming out of Ukraine where they're launching rockets against
Speaker 1: these drones. And so, uh, it is an experiment right
Speaker 1: now as to what is the most effective way to
Speaker 1: to neutralize this kind of threat. But look, I mean
Speaker 1: Iran has been uh marketing these drones around the world
Speaker 1: to other despotic regimes. You know, you can look at
Speaker 1: them up on the internet. It's almost like, you know,
Speaker 1: come by a drone and attack your own people with it,
Speaker 1: and and so, uh it isn't new, but I would say, uh,
Speaker 1: it's it's a development on the battlefield that's going to
Speaker 1: reshape war as we know it. You heard the ambassador Genie.
Speaker 1: Does this end in in additional sanctions against Iron? It will.
Speaker 1: I think we're going to see increasing sanctions, but quite frankly,
Speaker 1: it's probably not going to be enough. And and you know,
Speaker 1: let's not forget. At the same time, you have everybody
Speaker 1: from President Biden to Mike Pence saying to Republicans like
Speaker 1: Kevin McCarthy, who may take over the House soon, you
Speaker 1: can't defund this this effort. You cannot cut this aid.
Speaker 1: And that is a very real threat as we look
Speaker 1: at the damage on the ground. It's going to be
Speaker 1: a huge debate in the next year. Rick and Genie,
Speaker 1: thank you there with us for the hour. I'm Joe
Speaker 1: Matthew and Washington. This is Bloomberg. It was quite the
Speaker 1: scene when Steve Bannon arrived today for his sentencing. Give
Speaker 1: a listen. Remember this illegitimate regime. Their their judgment day
Speaker 1: is on a November when the Biden administration ends. I
Speaker 1: want to thank you all for coming, thank you, and
Speaker 1: remember take down the thank you. Okay. By the way,
Speaker 1: CCPAN people are yelling Trader in the background. It was
Speaker 1: crazier when he came out. Uh this, of course, the
Speaker 1: longtime advisor to Donald Trump not just four months in
Speaker 1: jail but also six thousand five fine, which shouldn't be
Speaker 1: too much of a problem for him, I'm assuming because
Speaker 1: he's been raising money on this story for quite a while.
Speaker 1: And it happens the same day that Donald Trump gets
Speaker 1: the subpoena. A lot of people were asking me, how
Speaker 1: would this another subpoena. No, this is the same subpoena
Speaker 1: that you saw them vote on in the January six
Speaker 1: committee at the very end. Remember they took a vote
Speaker 1: very end of the last committee hearing, supposedly the last
Speaker 1: one that will be on TV. Well, he got that
Speaker 1: today and it says that he must testify beginning November
Speaker 1: for however long it takes. This could be days. And
Speaker 1: he's got a hand over the documents that have been
Speaker 1: subpoenaed by the fourth of November. Now. Mike Dorning has
Speaker 1: been following this all along, Bloomberg Politics reporter and one
Speaker 1: of the voices of reason here in the Washington bureau
Speaker 1: at Bloomberg. Mike, it's great to have you. Thank you
Speaker 1: for being here. Is that the coincidence he has come
Speaker 1: down the same day. It is a coincidence that he's
Speaker 1: come down the same day as far as I know. Um,
Speaker 1: it's great to be here, Joe, by the way, great
Speaker 1: to have you sir. So four months is does that
Speaker 1: end up being good news for Steve Bannon? I mean,
Speaker 1: I realized people should understand the significance. He's the first
Speaker 1: Trump allied to actually be sentenced to prison for anything
Speaker 1: involving January six. But he's turned this into a franchise also,
Speaker 1: hasn't he? Oh for sure? And he's um, you know,
Speaker 1: obviously using the moment to try to embolden um turn
Speaker 1: out in the election, saying, hey, the judgment day is
Speaker 1: November eight. Um, Actually the judgment day on the Biden
Speaker 1: administration is going to be two years hence, but he
Speaker 1: needs the people to come out at this mid term election.
Speaker 1: The sentence is not that far from the maximum sentence
Speaker 1: of six months. Um. The judge gave him a little
Speaker 1: bit of credit. Um, Okay. There's a lot of questions
Speaker 1: about where he was gonna go, and now I'm reading
Speaker 1: it will be at a low security lock up. What's
Speaker 1: his life going to be like? Uh, well, it's Um,
Speaker 1: I I don't know the federal prisons that well, but
Speaker 1: these low security lock ups tend not to be that bad.
Speaker 1: They tend to be here with white collar criminals, it's um,
Speaker 1: you know, dormitories and you might not book it for
Speaker 1: a hotel, but it's not awful. So he's not going
Speaker 1: to be like in you know, in in in the
Speaker 1: Alcatraz style prison. We're all this prison. He'll be like
Speaker 1: with insider traders and people who concocting scheme. Uh. Sorry,
Speaker 1: the subpoena goes to Donald Trump. That's just a formality, right.
Speaker 1: Did we were these dates known beforehand? I mean, is
Speaker 1: there any chance he testifies on the fourte um The
Speaker 1: date weren't known beforehand, he says, or people close to
Speaker 1: him have him saying that, oh he would love to testify, um,
Speaker 1: you know, and wants to do so publicly. Most people
Speaker 1: think his lawyers would tell him not to testify because
Speaker 1: if he says something untruthful, then you know, he would
Speaker 1: be Um, he could be prosecuted under the law for
Speaker 1: a false statement. Well, so okay, so there you go.
Speaker 1: After what we saw today with Steve Bannon, the House
Speaker 1: could vote on whether to make a criminal referral as
Speaker 1: you report two Attorney General Merrick Ireland. Uh, a former
Speaker 1: president is a lot different than Steve Bannon. Is there
Speaker 1: any chance of that happening? Uh? You know, the House
Speaker 1: could vote after November four to make a criminal referral.
Speaker 1: But but he could also, you know, try to get
Speaker 1: a court order and fight the subpoena on grounds of
Speaker 1: executive privilege or something thing else and drag this on
Speaker 1: and then lo and behold, we'd be onto the next Congress.
Speaker 1: So there's a good chance in reality he could drag
Speaker 1: it on until it's kind of a mood issue. Okay,
Speaker 1: so that's the strategy. Then, right, you just let this,
Speaker 1: Uh you let this kind of bleed out for the
Speaker 1: rest of the year, assuming Republicans take the House and
Speaker 1: they do plan. Kevin McCarthy has planned to dissolve this
Speaker 1: committee all along, right if he has a chance to
Speaker 1: do it. Yeah, And even if he doesn't, he would
Speaker 1: get a chance to appoint the members of the committee,
Speaker 1: and the once McCarthy points might not be as insistent.
Speaker 1: I appreciate the insights as always, Mike Dorning, have a
Speaker 1: great weekend, Like thanks for being here. Bloomberg Politics reporter
Speaker 1: with us on Bloomberg Sound On, see what the panel
Speaker 1: thinks about this quickly. Rick Davis and Jeannie Schanzano are
Speaker 1: here Bloomberg Politics contributors. Jennie, does this change anything in
Speaker 1: in sort of the broader January six case to see
Speaker 1: Steve Banning go to jail or does it just enable
Speaker 1: him to have more fun when he gets out. You know,
Speaker 1: from the looks of it, when he came out afterwards,
Speaker 1: he did not seem deterred at all, if that was
Speaker 1: the judges intend talking about deterrence, and he seemed ready
Speaker 1: to go and fundraise. You know, the judge gave him
Speaker 1: time obviously on this appeal. He's not going to go
Speaker 1: to jail. So I don't think it's going to change anything.
Speaker 1: And certainly the president, the former president, is going to
Speaker 1: be able to say he's got executive privilege that Steve
Speaker 1: Bannon never had that And so we're not going to
Speaker 1: see anything out of the subpoena with Trump except for
Speaker 1: the opportunity for the committee to say in the report
Speaker 1: that they gave him an opportunity to respond. That's really
Speaker 1: what this is about. Okay, got we you heard Steve
Speaker 1: Bannon going in and like one person yelling trade or whatever.
Speaker 1: Listen to the craziness when he came out. Here's Steve
Speaker 1: Bannon again, November eight, there's gonna have judgment on the
Speaker 1: illegitimate Biden regime, and quite frankly, and quite frankly, the
Speaker 1: Nancy Pelosi and the entire committee. And we know which
Speaker 1: way that's going. Either they've already been turfed out like
Speaker 1: Liz Cheney, right or if quit Kinzinger and all the Democrats,
Speaker 1: or they're about to be beaten like Lauria and others. Okay,
Speaker 1: so his name checking politicians here, Rick Davis, who he
Speaker 1: thinks you know, will be will be brought down on
Speaker 1: judgment day. Of course, Adam Kinzinger has already you know,
Speaker 1: made up his own mind. But framing November eight as
Speaker 1: judgment day, he probably sees it as worth going through
Speaker 1: this to boost turnout or passion ahead of the election. Right, Well,
Speaker 1: it certainly he sees worth going through as long as
Speaker 1: his appeal works and he doesn't have to spend four
Speaker 1: months in prison. So I would say nobody looks forward
Speaker 1: to that was laid off to political activism. It's not
Speaker 1: like he couldn't go stand in front of a bunch
Speaker 1: of you know, radio and TV cameras and say the
Speaker 1: same thing and get the same reaction. I would say
Speaker 1: that nobody would have probably taken him alive like they
Speaker 1: did today and actually honor this kind of diet tribe.
Speaker 1: But the bottom line is that he's gonna try and
Speaker 1: take credit for election wins that Republicans have in the House,
Speaker 1: and to some degree, you know, he'll be emboldened by that.
Speaker 1: Does he win the appeal? Is that a real case? Uh?
Speaker 1: I wouldn't know how to handicap that, but I wouldn't
Speaker 1: count him. Op standby Rick and Jeanie our panel. They're
Speaker 1: back in just a moment as we turn to the
Speaker 1: latest forecast, the mid term forecasts from President Biden. I'm
Speaker 1: Joe Matthew. This is Bloomberg. You're listening to Bloomberg Sound
Speaker 1: On with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. It's impressive to
Speaker 1: read on the terminal. The US budget deficit saw a
Speaker 1: record drop in the fistical year, second straight annual drop
Speaker 1: that for the fiscal year through September narrowed to one
Speaker 1: point for trillion from a revised two point seven eight
Speaker 1: trillion the previous year, and President Biden wanted to tell
Speaker 1: people about it today. That's idea that his plans are
Speaker 1: coming together to lower the deficit. And that's even after
Speaker 1: the treasure reaccounted for this move to forgive student loan debt.
Speaker 1: And the President says, boy, with the mid terms in mind,
Speaker 1: and that was, you know, part of the design of
Speaker 1: this event. If Republicans take over, will you know what here?
Speaker 1: He is, Republicans in Congress are doubling down on a
Speaker 1: commitment to explode the deficit again just this week. It's
Speaker 1: hard to make this stuff up. Just this week, republic
Speaker 1: leader said if they get their way, they're going to
Speaker 1: extend the tax the Trump tax cuts were doing to
Speaker 1: expire in a couple of years. Extend them. They said,
Speaker 1: they'll repeal the corporate minimum tax. Of just that I
Speaker 1: just signed a law fifteen. He can't believe that this
Speaker 1: message is not taking hold, as Republicans are of course
Speaker 1: expected to win the House in this high inflationary environment,
Speaker 1: with so many things to talk about here, and it
Speaker 1: just reminds me thinking of Joe Biden today at the podium,
Speaker 1: like you know, I live the deficit, and still reminds
Speaker 1: me of that classic scene on Saturday Night Live. Remember
Speaker 1: Governor Ducaucus Rebuttal, I can't believe I'm losing to this guy.
Speaker 1: And here we are in two Rick Davis and Genie
Speaker 1: Shanzana with us. Is it just Rick about I mean,
Speaker 1: should we just give up the ghost on this deficit
Speaker 1: issue and acknowledge publicly that nobody cares about it? You know,
Speaker 1: I think voters do care about it. I think it's
Speaker 1: it's it's difficult for candidates and members of Congress administration
Speaker 1: personnel to articulate it. Well, um, we've seen it play
Speaker 1: heavily in past elections. Ronald Reagan got elected on it.
Speaker 1: That was a long time ago. That was a long
Speaker 1: time ago. But that's also when parties actually had a
Speaker 1: difference of opinion on federal debt. Now it's basically everyone's
Speaker 1: a big spender, Republican race or mojo on it. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's not it's it's not shocking, but it's shocking to
Speaker 1: me that you have a Democratic president talking about how
Speaker 1: much better the Democratic Party is in the Replican Party
Speaker 1: on debt. Really reality, really particularly good, that's true, And
Speaker 1: it's always the minority gets religion on on deficits, right
Speaker 1: with you know, when they have no say in spending, Genie.
Speaker 1: But we don't really hear Republicans talk about it. There
Speaker 1: is a small contingent of Republicans who have talked about this.
Speaker 1: Put to your point, it's usually when they're out of
Speaker 1: power that they talk about it, and they blame it
Speaker 1: on the party in power. And we've heard that, you
Speaker 1: know a little bit throughout the Biden administration. But you know,
Speaker 1: I think that Joe Biden is actually making a case
Speaker 1: that Democrats need to make more, which is, don't compare
Speaker 1: me to some mythical godlike figure, compare me to who
Speaker 1: we're actually running against. There's a choice here, and that
Speaker 1: choice he's gonna say is either Republicans who will cut
Speaker 1: Social Security benefits, increase the deficit, you know, and corporate
Speaker 1: of all those things, or there's or there's us. And
Speaker 1: I may not be perfect, but I'm better than the alternative.
Speaker 1: And I think this is something that Democrats have got
Speaker 1: to keep saying, because the reality is the President did
Speaker 1: sign a good number of bills this summer, much more
Speaker 1: than people thought e would, and the pol seas, for
Speaker 1: the most part, are supported by at least small majorities
Speaker 1: of Americans and many it doesn't need to connect the
Speaker 1: dots to inflation, though, explain at least that this is about,
Speaker 1: you know, helping to lower prices here that in the end,
Speaker 1: a lower deficit will do. Otherwise, he's helping to elect Republicans.
Speaker 1: Rick says, Look, they're gonna extend the taxes. Well, great,
Speaker 1: we'll all vote Republican. Then it is arguable that this
Speaker 1: year Joe Biden has been the greatest weapon for the
Speaker 1: Republican Party that there is. Look, I mean, the same
Speaker 1: day that he is touting his prowess as a deficit cutter,
Speaker 1: he adds five hundred billion dollars to the deficit by
Speaker 1: doing the student loan program. I mean, it just doesn't
Speaker 1: make any sense that you do one thing and then
Speaker 1: do exactly the opposite, all in the same press conference.
Speaker 1: Uh well, yeah, a couple. And there were two events today.
Speaker 1: Early he was talking about the mid terms, Genie and
Speaker 1: you know, who needs the cook political report when you've
Speaker 1: got the President of the United States. Know, the new
Speaker 1: forecast is out from five thirty eight. Joe Biden is
Speaker 1: asked in an event that was to point about student
Speaker 1: loan debt forgiveness. He was asked about his expectations for
Speaker 1: the mid term elections, having seen you know, the whole
Speaker 1: story we've talked about at Democratic momentum slowing and the
Speaker 1: thought that maybe Democrats peaked a little too early here
Speaker 1: to actually hold the House or or maybe even keep
Speaker 1: the Senate in the mid terms. Here's the president. The
Speaker 1: polls have been all over the place. I think that
Speaker 1: we're gonna see one more shift back to our side
Speaker 1: the closing days. And let me tell you why. I
Speaker 1: think that we're starting to see some of the good
Speaker 1: news on the economy. Gas prices are down sharply in
Speaker 1: forty six of the fifty states. Because of what I've
Speaker 1: been doing, We're moving in the right direction. There's more
Speaker 1: to come. State unemployment today, State unemployment it's all time
Speaker 1: lows in eleven states, and seventeen states have unemployment rates
Speaker 1: under three Genie. None of those factors have seemed to
Speaker 1: matter until now. Why would they in the next two weeks.
Speaker 1: You know, it's shocking to hear the president and say
Speaker 1: he thinks they're going to come back, um, you know,
Speaker 1: and not to trust the polls and things are getting better.
Speaker 1: You know, Joe Biden has got to make that case.
Speaker 1: I think he's trying to make it. To your point,
Speaker 1: on the economic issue, it is not resonating in the polls,
Speaker 1: and that's why I think he really does have to
Speaker 1: do more about what he said today, which is to
Speaker 1: focus on the winds he did get, and to talk
Speaker 1: about how inflation, to Nancy Pelosi's point the other day,
Speaker 1: is a global problem and by comparison, we are doing better.
Speaker 1: He's got to be empathetic with all of us because
Speaker 1: we're feeling the you know, the difficulty, the economic hardship
Speaker 1: that is out there. So they've got to be empathetic.
Speaker 1: But they've also got to make the case that they're
Speaker 1: on the right track and it's going to take time.
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's going to work. I'm not
Speaker 1: as confident as Joe Biden that it's going to work
Speaker 1: in a few weeks. But that's the case that they
Speaker 1: have to make. Is it just the president's job to
Speaker 1: say that Rick or his political advisers telling him that, yeah,
Speaker 1: to steal a British phrase it probably is being overused
Speaker 1: in London right now. Is he's got to keep that
Speaker 1: stiff upper lip right. I mean, he's got to be
Speaker 1: the chief campaigner and office also and and so sure
Speaker 1: he's trying to sell he's trying to sell a big
Speaker 1: push at the end. But you know, as you described,
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, the polls are not just changing,
Speaker 1: they're collapsing for Democrats in a lot of different places
Speaker 1: around the country. And the odds now of the Republicans
Speaker 1: take control of both chambers have increased dramatically since a
Speaker 1: month ago. So you know it, overturning that momentum is
Speaker 1: going to be hard to do without some big action
Speaker 1: forcing event, some October surprise, and right now there there
Speaker 1: doesn't seem to be a surprise. It's in the works.
Speaker 1: There's been a lot of questions about why we didn't
Speaker 1: get the full court press on student loan debt forgiveness
Speaker 1: from this administration, why they've really only been passing references
Speaker 1: to it from the President and some of his recent speeches.
Speaker 1: But today was the day a big formal event about this.
Speaker 1: And listen to the way he framed the argument against
Speaker 1: those who have criticized this, largely Republicans and his name,
Speaker 1: checking them as being unfair. Here's Joe Biden. Marjorie Taylor agreed,
Speaker 1: she got over she and her husband got a hundred
Speaker 1: eighty thousand dollars in business loans forgiven from the p
Speaker 1: p P program. She said, it's completely unfair for us
Speaker 1: to forgive student loans for working in middle class Americans.
Speaker 1: Representative Vernu Canon of Florida said, our plan was reckless.
Speaker 1: Guess how much he got in that program forgiven two million,
Speaker 1: three hundred thousand dollars. Listen to the crowd of joke. Okay,
Speaker 1: so how come he hasn't been doing that all along, Jennie,
Speaker 1: He should be doing that. It is, you know, using
Speaker 1: the old hypocrite model, and it it can be effective,
Speaker 1: you know. I don't think, however, it changes the reality
Speaker 1: of this student loan forgiveness plan. And the fact is
Speaker 1: the plan does very little to address the bottom line
Speaker 1: issue on why colleges and universities are so expensive, and
Speaker 1: in fact, it may make the situation worse. And we've
Speaker 1: already seen that it's been scaled back over the last
Speaker 1: few weeks and will continue to be so. So I
Speaker 1: think the pol see itself is problematic, but the President
Speaker 1: is going to go out and tout it because it's
Speaker 1: a big part of his efforts to reach a certain constituency.
Speaker 1: Would you help the president frame the argument that way, Rick,
Speaker 1: Is that is that really? I mean, look, we're those
Speaker 1: are the very people who are trying to to to
Speaker 1: to attack the president on this plan. Yeah. I think
Speaker 1: at some point the President's got to focus on, like
Speaker 1: what is the broad message and not sort of pick
Speaker 1: off individual members and their their conduct on this kind
Speaker 1: of stuff. It feels good, but it doesn't really help
Speaker 1: the broader party to try and win elections across the board.
Speaker 1: Uh So, I I think the one thing this administration
Speaker 1: just hasn't gotten a grip on is inflation and the economy,
Speaker 1: and and that is the number one thing that people
Speaker 1: are saying they're going to vote on this year, and
Speaker 1: they still don't have a message around it. I mean,
Speaker 1: with all due respect student loan forgiveness, even if it's big,
Speaker 1: and it's it's it's glitzy, and you're putting an incredible
Speaker 1: amount of you know, uh, debt to work. Uh You're
Speaker 1: you're not really talking about the hope streams and aspirations
Speaker 1: of voters as they're going to vote in this election.
Speaker 1: So until he gets with the inflation and the economy,
Speaker 1: he's not talking to voters about the things that care about. Well,
Speaker 1: you know at the beginning of next week, when when
Speaker 1: next week dawns, we're gonna be talking about two weeks
Speaker 1: to election day, which gives me the sweats a little bit.
Speaker 1: But beyond that, uh two weeks left. You know, the
Speaker 1: president's going this weekend, Jennie, tell beach, tell me Joe
Speaker 1: Matthew to the beach, to Rome. I mean, is that
Speaker 1: exactly where he should be? You know, this is not
Speaker 1: a president who we've talked about who has gone out
Speaker 1: and and done big rallies. Are those kinds of things
Speaker 1: they just simply don't work for Joe Biden. And I
Speaker 1: would just say that, you know, they didn't work so
Speaker 1: well again for Barack Obama or Donald Trump and their midterms. Either.
Speaker 1: The reality is this has very little to do with
Speaker 1: Joe Biden. This is how midterm elections work in the
Speaker 1: United States. So I'm not sure him going around the
Speaker 1: country where he's not wanted and potentially could do more
Speaker 1: damage would be a good plan either. How about you, Rick,
Speaker 1: would you tell him to do exactly that? Uh? Stay
Speaker 1: at home? Sure? Uh Look, I mean these candidates don't
Speaker 1: want to nationalize this race, because if they do, they're
Speaker 1: gonna they're gonna they're gonna get worse, not better. So
Speaker 1: the local localization. You know, how do I become if
Speaker 1: I'm running for governor or mayor, uh, the local guy
Speaker 1: to talk about the local issues. That's the winner issue
Speaker 1: voice from the expert Rick Davis and our expert analysis
Speaker 1: from Genie chantay O. Great conversation, thanks to both of
Speaker 1: you Bloomberg Politics contributors. Next week the big debate Dr Roz,
Speaker 1: Jon Fetterman, that's Tuesday. You know we'll have it here.
Speaker 1: I'm Joe Matthew. Have a great weekend. This is Bloomberg