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Speaker 1: Body dyings. But Joseph's gotten more the Male clinic. You

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Speaker 1: hear that name, and the first thing that comes to

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Speaker 1: mind for many of us is research. For those of

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Speaker 1: us that have family members that have experienced seemingly insurmountable

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Speaker 1: odds when it comes to diseases, you see them as

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Speaker 1: a bit of a salvation because they have turned lives around.

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Speaker 1: They have given hope where hope did not previously exist,

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Speaker 1: at least in the sense of extending someone's life. Today, though,

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Speaker 1: we're going to talk about a young woman who was

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Speaker 1: employee of the Mayo Clinic who died tragically and her

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Speaker 1: life ended as she was in the midst of pursuing

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Speaker 1: a graduate degree in one of my favorite areas of study,

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Speaker 1: which is public health, and she didn't get to see

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Speaker 1: the end the success of that great academic achievement. Instead,

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Speaker 1: her death came about at the hands of someone who

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Speaker 1: at one time she trusted, and then that individual took

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Speaker 1: her and discarded her as if she meant nothing. I'm

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Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan and this is bodybags, you know, Dave.

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Speaker 1: In medical legal death investigation, a big part of our

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Speaker 1: job is processing information, not just for the courts, not

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Speaker 1: just for police, but also for public health. We spend arguably,

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Speaker 1: I could say that we in my world, we actually

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Speaker 1: spend as much time gleaning data relative to end of

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Speaker 1: life circumstances as we do studying homicides and trauma and

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Speaker 1: that sort of thing. You know, because most of the

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Speaker 1: deaths that you handle at a corner of medical examiners

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Speaker 1: office are not traumatically related. They're certainly not all homicides.

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Speaker 1: The line chair of deaths are natural. And so having

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Speaker 1: worked in Atlanta for over a decade, the CDC is

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Speaker 1: actually in Atlanta. It's technically, you know, into Cab County,

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Speaker 1: but it's immediately adjacent to Atlanta. So we would have

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Speaker 1: their personnel that would come over and grab data from

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Speaker 1: us pretty regularly. We would see them come in and out,

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Speaker 1: and we had a really good working relationship with them.

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Speaker 1: And when it comes to this poor woman whose life

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Speaker 1: ended at the hands of an individual that cared not

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Speaker 1: for her any longer, and I'm talking about Madeline Mattie Kingsbury,

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Speaker 1: that was her life's work. That's what she had decided

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Speaker 1: to study, that's what she was looking to expand her

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Speaker 1: career into. She's working on a master's degree in public health,

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Speaker 1: and it's those people that study things like epidemiology that

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Speaker 1: try to understand disease Jesus and how they impact us,

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Speaker 1: everything from smoking to drinking, to origins of cancer to

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Speaker 1: I mean, you name it. It covers a broad spectrum.

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Speaker 1: You can choose to study just about anything that impacts

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Speaker 1: the human condition medically, and this case has touched so

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Speaker 1: many people's lives and it's so very tragic. I think

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Speaker 1: that's probably the last thing that people expected to happen. Dave.

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Speaker 2: It is an amazing story that I actually have been

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Speaker 2: covering this Joe since Madeline Kingsbury went missing. It was

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Speaker 2: mother of two, obviously brilliant based on her educational background

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Speaker 2: and what she was currently doing, and we were looking

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Speaker 2: for try to find this woman, and it actually begins

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Speaker 2: where she you know, you always go, Where was the

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Speaker 2: last time somebody saw her? And who was with her?

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Speaker 2: And all that we actually have. Can I ask you

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Speaker 2: something real quick, sure forgive me. Did you cover this

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Speaker 2: with Nancy Grace?

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Speaker 1: Yes? And did this initially come out as a missing person? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you guys were working and covering that because I know Nancy,

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Speaker 1: she's you know, she's like a dog with a bone,

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Speaker 1: she'll she'll hook into a case like this, and it's

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Speaker 1: all about trying to find the person.

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Speaker 2: And that's what we were doing. That's why I was

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Speaker 2: on it from the first episode. I was covering it

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Speaker 2: from the beginning. We did it several times with updates,

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Speaker 2: trying to find her, getting out information because you have

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Speaker 2: this mother of two. She's twenty six years old, she's young,

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Speaker 2: she's brilliant, and she's missing. I mean, so not only

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Speaker 2: do you have a person, but you've got a mom.

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Speaker 2: She's got two small children. Their ages are five and

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Speaker 2: two years old, and she is missing. And so yeah,

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Speaker 2: we covered it. She actually was seen Madeline Kingsbury and

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Speaker 2: Adam Fravel, he is the father to her children. They

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Speaker 2: are seen just after eight am dropping their five year

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Speaker 2: old and two year old off at the daycare. They

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Speaker 2: are together, and I point that out because that wasn't

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Speaker 2: the norm. They didn't always go together to drop the

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Speaker 2: children off at daycare. Also, Madeline Kingsbury, she regularly texted

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Speaker 2: back and forth with her family members, and she was

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Speaker 2: also very quickly. She wasn't one of these people that

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Speaker 2: you would text and hope she got back to you

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Speaker 2: within several hours. She was an immediate retext. It was

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Speaker 2: a communication that she did. And the last thing that

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Speaker 2: she responded to was at eight fifteen that morning, and

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Speaker 2: it was responding to a joker sister had sent or something,

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Speaker 2: a funny picture or whatever. But it was that lack

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Speaker 2: of contact with family and friend that immediately said something's

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Speaker 2: not quite right. So we have Adam Fravelle and Madeline

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Speaker 2: Kingsbury with their dropping their children off together at daycare

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Speaker 2: round eight am. At eight fifteen, Madeline responds to a

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Speaker 2: comedic picture sent to texted to her by her sister,

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Speaker 2: and from that moment on we know that they got

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Speaker 2: home to their house. There's security cameras showing her car

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Speaker 2: pulling in. She's there at her house and at eight

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Speaker 2: fifteen nothing, She no longer responds to any text messages

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Speaker 2: or answers the phone, and she vanishes. She vanishes off

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Speaker 2: the face of the earth. Her the father of her children,

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Speaker 2: Adam Fravell. He is seen leaving the house about ten

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Speaker 2: o'clock that morning, a little laughter ten. He drives around

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Speaker 2: and police were able to track his whereabouts because of

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Speaker 2: security cameras and phone pings and things like that, and

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Speaker 2: so they know where he went, where he traveled and

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Speaker 2: when he returned and he's doing these things out on

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Speaker 2: the oven. But again, Madeline Kingsbury is seen going into

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Speaker 2: her house but never leaving, never emerging right. So when

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Speaker 2: her family realizes they haven't talked to her, can't get

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Speaker 2: her on the phone. This is so out of the ordinary,

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Speaker 2: they call police. Would you please check on our sister

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Speaker 2: daughter and see what's going on. Adam Fravel tells police

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Speaker 2: that he didn't hear from her either. You know, he

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Speaker 2: had run his errands and he came back home and

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Speaker 2: he didn't hear from her. She would normally pick the

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Speaker 2: children up at school, but she wasn't responding to text

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Speaker 2: messages or anything. She didn't show up to pick up

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Speaker 2: the kids. So he went and got the kids, and

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Speaker 2: he took the children because he couldn't get up with Madeline.

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Speaker 2: He got the children in a daycare and took them

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Speaker 2: to his parents' house and returned back home. So that's

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Speaker 2: where we are with the welfare check. The children are

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Speaker 2: now at Adam's parents' house. Madeleine is gone, but her purse,

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Speaker 2: her keys, her phone, her vehicle are at the house.

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Speaker 2: That's when we picked up the story, Joe. That's the

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Speaker 2: first time I started covering it was with that an

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Speaker 2: area that I just gave you what.

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Speaker 1: A you know, and I know that this happens. It's

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Speaker 1: never happened to me personally, okay, but what an odd dynamic, huh.

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Speaker 1: You know when you think about that, that you're you're

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Speaker 1: no longer going to move forward with a relationship, right

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Speaker 1: yet you're still living under the same roof. And listen,

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Speaker 1: I understand times are tough all over, you know what

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Speaker 1: I'm saying, financially, and sometimes you know you have to

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Speaker 1: be in that space because you need a roof over

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Speaker 1: your head. But can you It's hard to fathom that

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Speaker 1: someone that you know that you're not going to move

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Speaker 1: forward with, that you're still occupying that same space. And

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Speaker 1: it's not just a space, it's an intimate home environment.

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Speaker 1: It's your domicile, you know, where you're living with this

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Speaker 1: person and you're also living there with your children. And

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Speaker 1: I was just thinking about, you know, this idea of

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Speaker 1: her and him dropping the children off together, and that's

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Speaker 1: you know, you wonder and I think I thought about this,

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Speaker 1: you know, when we were talking about doing this case.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that there was an attempt at reconciliation

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Speaker 1: on some level, that maybe some seed had been planted,

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Speaker 1: you know, let's go, let's go out and you know,

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Speaker 1: and let's go drop the kids off together, you know,

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Speaker 1: and maybe that there was some kind of indication that maybe,

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Speaker 1: you know, hope springs eternal. I have no idea. And

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Speaker 1: then suddenly something is triggered that pushes this set of

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Speaker 1: circumstances off the rails to the point where she literally

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Speaker 1: vanishes into thin air. And we're not talking about she's

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Speaker 1: vanished and she's taken all the stuff out of the

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Speaker 1: house and she's left. Dude, She's vanished and everything that

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Speaker 1: she would need to subsist on, even if it was

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Speaker 1: by herself. And I cannot imagine, and I know that

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Speaker 1: it has happened, but I can't imagine, particularly with somebody

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Speaker 1: as precious as Matteline seems like she was, that she

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Speaker 1: would just abandon her kids with no thought and just

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Speaker 1: leave and go, you know, cast caution to the wind.

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Speaker 1: And as we all know, Dave, in all of these

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Speaker 1: circumstances of cases like this, the first person we're going

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Speaker 1: to look at is going to be the intimate partner

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Speaker 1: in a particular case, because it's stranger on stranger crime

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Speaker 1: is so rare when compared to domestic issues, Dave. And

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Speaker 1: of course there's a lot kind of bubbling beneath the

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Speaker 1: surface here.

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Speaker 2: And is that what's bubbling underneath the surface that has

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Speaker 2: everyone's attention? I want to share something very quickly, Joe,

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Speaker 2: because as police are called to do the welfare check,

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Speaker 2: they are given information about the relationship because they need

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Speaker 2: to know what are we walking into. Yeah, And they

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Speaker 2: are given information from family and friends about the relationship

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Speaker 2: between Adam Frable and Madeline Kingsbury. And there's one particular

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Speaker 2: story that is told by a friend of Madeleine's. She

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Speaker 2: was holding the youngest baby they were doing. She was

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Speaker 2: doing a FaceTime call with a friend of hers. Okay,

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Speaker 2: she's at the house, she's cooking dinner, she has child

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Speaker 2: in one hand, and she's on the phone and she's

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Speaker 2: cooking dinner. And the friend relates how Adam Fravel is

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Speaker 2: in the living room area playing a video game and

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Speaker 2: he comes into the kitchen area and is seen by

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Speaker 2: the person because she's doing the FaceTime call. Adam walks

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Speaker 2: into frame and he's yelling at Madeleine to be quiet

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Speaker 2: on the phone because he can't hear his game, and

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Speaker 2: he smacks her in the face. The person on the

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Speaker 2: other end of this FaceTime call sees him hit her

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Speaker 2: in the face and starts putting two and two together

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Speaker 2: on other things she has seen in the past. This

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Speaker 2: is something that is related to police eyewitness first hand

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Speaker 2: account of what they have seen Adam Fravel and Madeline's relationship.

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Speaker 2: Right violence over a video game. Yeah, she's holding their

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Speaker 2: baby and cooking dinner and he explodes. Police know this

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Speaker 2: as they're talking to Frabel at all times.

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Speaker 1: Well. One of the chilling things about this is the

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Speaker 1: fact that if a subject will do this in view

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Speaker 1: of another person, particularly when there's a child present, what

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Speaker 1: would they be capable love when no one else is looking.

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Speaker 1: Think about investigations when you are looking for a missing

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Speaker 1: person and you have them in a location where they live,

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Speaker 1: that is the last place they were seeing alive, and

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Speaker 1: then suddenly they vanish into thin air. It is, in fact,

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Speaker 1: like chasing a ghost. You're having to go back and backtrack.

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Speaker 1: And Dave, if I'm not mistaken, this was you know,

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Speaker 1: a full court press relative to relative to trying to

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Speaker 1: seek out where where this poor woman is, and it

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Speaker 1: wasn't like she was just gone for a short period

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Speaker 1: of time, right, I mean, she disappears, dude, and she

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Speaker 1: is gone, man, she just vaporizes. Can you fill us

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Speaker 1: in a little bit about this.

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Speaker 2: Well, police start there, you know, they know they've got

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Speaker 2: her going in. They have a timetable here, which is

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Speaker 2: kind of fascinating to me because oftentimes we have a guess, well,

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Speaker 2: when was the last time you saw them? You know,

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Speaker 2: was it this day or that day? I mean, it

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Speaker 2: can be vague, and it's really important to know where

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Speaker 2: do we start looking when do we start looking. Well,

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Speaker 2: in this particular case, we know that her last text

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Speaker 2: message was at eight fifteen. We know she dropped the

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Speaker 2: children off at eight o'clock, and she was with Adam

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Speaker 2: Fravel during both of these instances, dropping the children off

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Speaker 2: together and sending the text message, replying back and forth

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Speaker 2: with her sister Megan. Now we know they got home

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Speaker 2: because her car is there. Then from there on out

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Speaker 2: the story gets weeds. I give you an example. This

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Speaker 2: is some information we got from the police department investigators

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Speaker 2: and talking about how she and Mayham were replying back

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Speaker 2: and forth to funny pictures and other text messages that

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Speaker 2: Madeline was getting during the course of that day, and

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Speaker 2: you know, they talk about how it was on a Friday,

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Speaker 2: and while everyone gets busy, even the most text active

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Speaker 2: people have a day where they don't reply as much

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Speaker 2: or as fast as normal. And that's brought into this

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Speaker 2: equation from the messages earlier that day. Even though, as

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Speaker 2: I mentioned, she was one of these people that you

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Speaker 2: send her a text, she replied quickly, I'm kind of

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Speaker 2: that person. I try to reply very quickly, and so

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Speaker 2: it's out of character and they kind of put all

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Speaker 2: this into play. But it's when she didn't pick up

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Speaker 2: the children at daycare. Five year old Ileana and two

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Speaker 2: year old Noah did not pick her children up from daycare.

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Speaker 2: It's determined that she did not go to work that day.

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Speaker 2: This is important because we know she got home with

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Speaker 2: the van and according to her boyfriend or the ex

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Speaker 2: the significant other, that you know they're breaking up. But

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Speaker 2: according to mister Frable, she was leaving to go to

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Speaker 2: work that day. She had to go into her office

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Speaker 2: and where she normally worked at home, she did go

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Speaker 2: in occasionally, and this was the day she was going

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Speaker 2: into the office. He leaves the house and runs errands

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Speaker 2: when he comes back, she's not there. He says he

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Speaker 2: assumed she's gone to the office, but he can't get

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Speaker 2: her on the phone. She's not replying to text. That's

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Speaker 2: why he decides to go pick up the children at

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Speaker 2: the daycare. Since he can't get up with her, he

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Speaker 2: takes the children to her parents, his parents' house. The

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Speaker 2: chief of Police of the Winona Police Department, Tom Wilson,

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna give you a direct quote from him because

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Speaker 2: he said, we believe of they're tracking the movements of

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Speaker 2: trying to track the movements of Matteling because she's the

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Speaker 2: one missing. We believe a van similar to Mattie's van

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Speaker 2: was driven up County Road twelve and Highway forty three

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Speaker 2: in Winona County and then southbound on Highway forty three

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Speaker 2: through the eastern part of Fillmore County. Later, a van

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Speaker 2: similar to Maddie's traveled back toward Buynona on Highway forty three.

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Speaker 2: All this occurred between ten am and one thirty pm.

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Speaker 2: We believe the van remained parked in the driveway of

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Speaker 2: Mattie's residence from one thirty pm on. We know that

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Speaker 2: Adam Frable was gone from the house between ten am

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Speaker 2: and one thirty because he told them, so, now you

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Speaker 2: have Adam Frable in her van something he didn't only

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Speaker 2: drive in her vehicle, driving around these locations where they've

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Speaker 2: used just so you know, between cell phone pings or

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Speaker 2: things like that, they've actually used ring doorbell cameras and

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Speaker 2: things like that, security cameras along the way. And they

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Speaker 2: that's why they say a van similar because they see

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Speaker 2: the van on these security cameras and they know it's her.

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Speaker 2: I mean, they just can't say that. They know it's

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Speaker 2: her van, but they also know it's not her driving

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Speaker 2: the van. So they have this thing going all over

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Speaker 2: the place and they know it's him. So the chief

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Speaker 2: says this nothing to date has indicated that Maddy left

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Speaker 2: the residence on foot or in another vehicle. It's important,

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Speaker 2: don't you think?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it truly is, because how does she just vaporize?

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Speaker 1: And we're talking about a pretty big geographic area and

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Speaker 1: so everybody knows, well, Noah County is due south of

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Speaker 1: what they refer to as the Twin Cities in Minnesota,

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Speaker 1: so you know Minneapolis, Saint Paul, and it's kind of

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Speaker 1: a rural area out there. It's the population density is

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Speaker 1: nothing like Hennepin County. You know where Minneapolis Saint Paul is.

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Speaker 1: And interestingly enough for those that don't, no one ownA

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Speaker 1: county and the county seat Wanona is where one own

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Speaker 1: a Rider gets her name from because she was born there.

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Speaker 1: And so you've got this town that they lived in.

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Speaker 1: It's a beautiful little town. It sits literally right at

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Speaker 1: you know, right on the Mississippi River. Uh so it's

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Speaker 1: right on the state border up there. Uh and in

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Speaker 1: a beautiful area of Minnesota is a gorgeous place. You've

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Speaker 1: ever been there, And so you've got a lot of

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Speaker 1: it's a huge geographic area, a lot of unimproved roads,

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Speaker 1: gravel roads, these sorts of things, farming communities, that sort

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Speaker 1: of thing. So it's not just so simple as to say, well,

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Speaker 1: we know that she's going to be specifically in this location,

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Speaker 1: because once you start to get outside of that ring

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Speaker 1: of and yeah, you know kind of doftne which's a

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Speaker 1: ring cams.

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Speaker 2: Uh.

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Speaker 1: But you get outside of that ring of CCTV coverage

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Speaker 1: that sort of thing, you're kind of, you know, walking

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Speaker 1: around in the dark without a cane at that point

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Speaker 1: in time, So you can have as many eyes on

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Speaker 1: this thing as you want to have on it, Dave.

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Speaker 1: But when you have a vast area like this, there's

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Speaker 1: no way to kind of pin it down. We I

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Speaker 1: think that we would we take comfort to a certain

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Speaker 1: degree regarding the amount of technology that kind of in

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Speaker 1: dwells and intertwines in our life. But there there are

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Speaker 1: no guarantees you know, that we're going to be able

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Speaker 1: to track anybody down whatsoever. And in a case like this,

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Speaker 1: the important person to be tracking is going to be

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Speaker 1: the ex boyfriend. You know, where here's movements, because when

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Speaker 1: it comes down to it, he's the last point, last

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Speaker 1: known point of contact. You remember you said just a

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Speaker 1: moment ago that got col She goes in, he comes out,

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Speaker 1: and she's never to be seen again.

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Speaker 2: They right, And that's the part that the police point

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Speaker 2: out early on. You know, police are cagy like this.

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Speaker 2: They they say things that let the perpetrator know that

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Speaker 2: they need to be worried, because if you push somebody

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Speaker 2: into a stressful situation, they can mess things up, they

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Speaker 2: can say the wrong thing, change their story. And so

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Speaker 2: police are not saying, hey, he did something to her.

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Speaker 2: They're merely pointing out basic facts that we saw her.

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Speaker 2: We know she went in, We know that he left.

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Speaker 2: He's gone between ten and one thirty. Her car never

337
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Speaker 2: moves again after one thirty, and she's never seen leaving

338
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Speaker 2: the house. We know she did not leave on her own,

339
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Speaker 2: So this is what the officer talked about. After that,

340
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Speaker 2: he says nothing indicates that Maddy left the residence on foot,

341
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Speaker 2: her in another vehicle, and he says nothing to date,

342
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Speaker 2: nothing to take meaning up to this moment, we got nothing.

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Speaker 2: The public has asked if we are currently looking for

344
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Speaker 2: the van.

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Speaker 1: We are not.

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Speaker 2: Investigators have searched the van and the residence. Inside the residence,

347
00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:09,679
Speaker 2: investigators located Maddie's phone, the jacket she had been wearing

348
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Speaker 2: earlier in the morning, along with her wallet and ID.

349
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:15,560
Speaker 2: Mattie's family and friends tried to contact Mattie throughout the

350
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Speaker 2: day on March thirty first, without success. It was unlike

351
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Speaker 2: her not to respond. Based on all of this, we

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00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:27,600
Speaker 2: believe Mattie's disappearance is involuntary, suspicious, and we are all

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Speaker 2: concerned for her safety.

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Speaker 1: Let me back up here just one second. Well, first off,

355
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Speaker 1: who walks out of the house without their personal belongings

356
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Speaker 1: and who in the hell walks out of their house

357
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Speaker 1: in Minnesota on March thirty first, without their jacket. Because

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Speaker 1: I don't know much an old Southern guy, I do

359
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:56,880
Speaker 1: know this Minnesota is cold, and particularly that time of year,

360
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Speaker 1: it's still very cold. That's her favorite jacket that she

361
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Speaker 1: wears on a regular basis. You know what. I guess

362
00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:07,159
Speaker 1: she could have changed jackets or perhaps, but you know,

363
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:09,240
Speaker 1: they make a they make an issue of the fact

364
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Speaker 1: that she walked in clothes in that jacket. We know

365
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Speaker 1: that she left in that jacket to drop the kids

366
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Speaker 1: off and then but she leaves that behind. I think

367
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Speaker 1: that's that's important because you know, when you're when you're

368
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:24,679
Speaker 1: kind of gauging one of these things, you're thinking about

369
00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:29,200
Speaker 1: health and welfare, right, they are suspicious because it's not

370
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Speaker 1: just that they're thinking that maybe something nefarious has happened,

371
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Speaker 1: you know, like a homicide. They're thinking, well, what if

372
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Speaker 1: she's having a mental health crisis, you know, and she

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Speaker 1: wanders away from the house. Because people do that, you know,

374
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Speaker 1: they don't have a sense of, you know, being uncomfortable

375
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Speaker 1: at that point because they're so distressed. They might have

376
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Speaker 1: an awareness later on, but they could walk out of

377
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Speaker 1: the house without a jacket on it, but as an investigator,

378
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Speaker 1: that's a significant piece of information, and.

379
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Speaker 2: Police say early on, we believe she's in danger. We

380
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:09,000
Speaker 2: believe she did not leave on her own. I think

381
00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:12,439
Speaker 2: that's a really important part of the entire story of

382
00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:20,520
Speaker 2: all of this, is her disappearance is involuntary and suspicious,

383
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Speaker 2: because this is all we know, Joe, this right here.

384
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:28,479
Speaker 2: All the searches that follow after this, we're talking family

385
00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:32,120
Speaker 2: and friends, everybody point out this is a very smart,

386
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:35,720
Speaker 2: beautiful mom. She's a woman who I mean, you look

387
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:38,600
Speaker 2: at how she's described and it's like I'm looking at

388
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:40,240
Speaker 2: pictures of her to see if i can see the

389
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:43,600
Speaker 2: angel wings. This is a person that is very highly

390
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:47,840
Speaker 2: thought of, and people truly care about her because of

391
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:50,720
Speaker 2: the type of individual she is. And all of them

392
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:54,480
Speaker 2: are concerned because they know who Adam Frabil is. They

393
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:57,800
Speaker 2: know they've seen the domestic violence, they know they have

394
00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:01,399
Speaker 2: seen this man I think you mentioned minute ago. Somebody

395
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:04,640
Speaker 2: that would smack her and talk to her in such

396
00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:06,359
Speaker 2: a way while she's on the phone with a friend

397
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:09,560
Speaker 2: shows you a lack of self control and a violent

398
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:12,800
Speaker 2: tendency that he thinks it's okay to show this side

399
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:15,840
Speaker 2: of him to somebody else. It's a crazy control thing.

400
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:16,240
Speaker 1: I guess.

401
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:19,800
Speaker 2: I'm not sure, but right away they knew he's a problem.

402
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:22,960
Speaker 2: He is a big problem. He's got a documented history

403
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:26,640
Speaker 2: of a domestic violence against Kingsbury, including there was an

404
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:30,199
Speaker 2: incident where he actually struck her, you know, while on

405
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:32,919
Speaker 2: that video phone call that is documented by the friend.

406
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:35,360
Speaker 2: And the police have all that information I was telling

407
00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:38,359
Speaker 2: you about earlier, so they already know all of this

408
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:41,359
Speaker 2: about Adam Fravell, and they know he's the last person

409
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:43,960
Speaker 2: with her. They know he took off in her vehicle

410
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:49,199
Speaker 2: and drove all around this area. So they can't find

411
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:53,800
Speaker 2: Madeline again, a mother of two who's all about her children,

412
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:56,960
Speaker 2: and they know she's dead at this point. They're not stupid.

413
00:26:57,359 --> 00:26:59,560
Speaker 2: They just have to prove it. But they got to

414
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:02,000
Speaker 2: find her, and you.

415
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:05,280
Speaker 1: Know, Dave, that's the most ominous piece of all. The

416
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 1: police know that something horrible has occurred involving Madeline, perhaps

417
00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:15,000
Speaker 1: the loss of her life. But the big question is

418
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:18,480
Speaker 1: how are they going to find her? Can they find

419
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 1: her in time? But as it turns out, it would

420
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:25,280
Speaker 1: be months before they ever laid eyes on Madeline again.

421
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:42,320
Speaker 1: You know, Dave, my wife when we used to live

422
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:45,720
Speaker 1: up in the North Georgia Mountains. That's where I had

423
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:48,560
Speaker 1: my first academic appointment. Lived up there for about a decade,

424
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:52,960
Speaker 1: and I had an old truck, and when we first

425
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:57,480
Speaker 1: moved up there, I was keen to try to figure

426
00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:01,280
Speaker 1: out where roads go and it and unerve her, particularly

427
00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:04,320
Speaker 1: up in the mountains, because you don't know where they're

428
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:09,119
Speaker 1: going to go. But I like taking just old dirt roads.

429
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:16,439
Speaker 1: And you're really in a very difficult position when you

430
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:18,480
Speaker 1: get down some of these roads and the road might

431
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:20,720
Speaker 1: be washed out, or you have to go through a

432
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:22,919
Speaker 1: stream in order to cross to the other side, and

433
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:24,760
Speaker 1: then when you get to the other side, you don't

434
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:28,479
Speaker 1: you don't know where you're going to wind up. And

435
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:33,479
Speaker 1: of course cell service never works up there. But when

436
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:36,520
Speaker 1: you see a gravel road, many times, for me at least,

437
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 1: it peaks my curiosity. I want to know what's down

438
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:45,520
Speaker 1: that road, Dave. They've been looking for Madeline now for

439
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:50,520
Speaker 1: months and months and she is not turned up. It

440
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:54,600
Speaker 1: was not until June the seventh, And we have to

441
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:59,240
Speaker 1: back up and remember she went missing on March thirty first,

442
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,760
Speaker 1: the last of March. She goes missing, and she is

443
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:09,360
Speaker 1: now found. She's finally found on June seventh, twenty twenty three,

444
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 1: and of course, by this time, I think that most

445
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 1: people had come to the conclusion that this was not

446
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 1: going to end well, and I think their worst fears

447
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:20,240
Speaker 1: were realized.

448
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 2: There was a deputy walking along Highway forty three. He

449
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 2: starts looking in this area. They know Adam's family has

450
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:29,960
Speaker 2: connections to the exact place where this deputy is looking,

451
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:33,840
Speaker 2: and that's how he comes across what he believes to

452
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:39,680
Speaker 2: be the body of Madeline Kingsbury. We're talking two months

453
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 2: after she goes missing.

454
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:45,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, and change actually a little bit longer.

455
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 2: And by the way, it's not her body laying in

456
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 2: a ditch. Okay, it's not her bare body. We actually

457
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:54,000
Speaker 2: have her body in a going back to the cocoon,

458
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:54,960
Speaker 2: being wrapped up.

459
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, and not just wrapped up, but sequestered in a culvert,

460
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:02,280
Speaker 1: you know. And I was talking about the gravel road

461
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:04,440
Speaker 1: just a moment ago that, you know, I so love

462
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 1: driving down and trying to figure out where they go.

463
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 1: That's where she was found. So when you find a

464
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 1: body that is obscured inside of like, say, for instance,

465
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:18,920
Speaker 1: a culvert, and for those of you that don't know

466
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:23,200
Speaker 1: what a culvert is a big concrete tube that literally

467
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:26,280
Speaker 1: goes like if you turn off of a road, perhaps

468
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:29,920
Speaker 1: you're going over a ditch. The culvert, most of the

469
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:35,200
Speaker 1: time will run beneath that intersection where you're driving onto

470
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:38,760
Speaker 1: the addition into the attached road, and it allows for

471
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:44,880
Speaker 1: the flow of water. Well. Her body is taped inside

472
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:48,640
Speaker 1: of a gray fitted sheet, Dave, and it's taped with

473
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 1: gorilla tape which comes which turns out to be very

474
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 1: important in this case, very vary. And the sheet, yeah,

475
00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 1: and the fitt of sheet, and she's hidden. She's hidden.

476
00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:01,719
Speaker 1: This is I'm not going to say that it is

477
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:04,479
Speaker 1: the same as burial, but it's pretty dog one close,

478
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:07,720
Speaker 1: because what you're trying to do is to obscure the body,

479
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:11,760
Speaker 1: to keep it out of view. I think one of

480
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 1: my questions would be, why would you go to this

481
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:23,200
Speaker 1: degree to hide a body but yet not really truly

482
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:27,560
Speaker 1: finish the job, Because if you have access to this

483
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:32,960
Speaker 1: much property, Okay, there's any number of locations you could

484
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:36,960
Speaker 1: have probably have gone in order to bury the body. However,

485
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:41,160
Speaker 1: what are we dealing here with, Dave. We're dealing with time. Remember,

486
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 1: he has to get back in time to get the kids.

487
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:52,040
Speaker 1: From daycare. Now did he leave again in this period

488
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 1: of time after his mom and dad had the kids,

489
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:58,840
Speaker 1: and then she's dead in the house. He wraps her up,

490
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:02,560
Speaker 1: prepares the body, scratching his head, wondering where in the

491
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:05,520
Speaker 1: world could the body? Where could I deposit the body

492
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:08,440
Speaker 1: where no one is going to find it? Well, he's

493
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:12,400
Speaker 1: you know, Frabl's got knowledge of this area. He's been

494
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:16,719
Speaker 1: there before. Trust me, his dad manages the property. It's

495
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:20,120
Speaker 1: not like he's a stranger to it, right, And he's saying, wow,

496
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:22,520
Speaker 1: you know, how can I make this quick and dirty

497
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:27,160
Speaker 1: and so? And it look I gotta say it worked

498
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 1: for a while. It worked for a few weeks. But

499
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:33,200
Speaker 1: in the end, this deputy that was doing a very

500
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:36,000
Speaker 1: thorough search out there, it seeing and I can imagine

501
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:39,520
Speaker 1: I've been in these circumstances. Before he pulls out his flashlight,

502
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 1: probably he sees a culvert that's not very well illuminated.

503
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:46,400
Speaker 1: Even in the middle of the day. You have to

504
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:48,560
Speaker 1: strain hard to see what's in there. Can you imagine

505
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:52,960
Speaker 1: his shock and surprise when he shines that light and

506
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:57,640
Speaker 1: he sees this formation in the dark. You know that

507
00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:01,480
Speaker 1: suddenly illuminated and you have this there's this reckoning that

508
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:04,959
Speaker 1: comes about in your mind and you realize, oh my gosh,

509
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 1: that looks like a shrouded body that's in there. And

510
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 1: then you've got this body in this protected space. I

511
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:18,280
Speaker 1: don't and the body would be at this period of time. Again,

512
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:21,960
Speaker 1: we have to think about time and temperature. Okay, the

513
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:24,600
Speaker 1: amount of time she's been out there. We know that

514
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:29,160
Speaker 1: Minnesota is a very cold place, even in the springtime.

515
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:32,160
Speaker 1: But we're heading into summer now, Dave. And this is

516
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:34,640
Speaker 1: not like the last time she was seen it was

517
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:37,800
Speaker 1: in the heart of winter, you know, probably it generally

518
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:42,600
Speaker 1: we move from what from winter to spring generally around

519
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:47,760
Speaker 1: the twentieth or the twenty first, twenty second of March correct,

520
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:50,840
Speaker 1: and then go into April, the end of March into April,

521
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:55,560
Speaker 1: and we're now into spring. So now you're heading into summer.

522
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:58,040
Speaker 1: Now we're just a few days away. You know, it

523
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:01,480
Speaker 1: would be summer probably in another thirteen days, So I

524
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:03,040
Speaker 1: don't know how much you're going to be able to

525
00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:07,120
Speaker 1: find on the body. However, However, what's very important here

526
00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:11,120
Speaker 1: again back to this idea of cocooning. The body's contained

527
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:15,360
Speaker 1: in this fitted sheet with the you know, the elastic edges,

528
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:18,839
Speaker 1: and so you're providing a space in there where you're

529
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:21,799
Speaker 1: going to contain any elements that are in there that

530
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:23,320
Speaker 1: might hold answers for you.

531
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:29,440
Speaker 2: Dave fascinating. I mentioned the fitted sheet came into play here. Well,

532
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:36,560
Speaker 2: when officers had been inside the home looking for Madeline Kingsbury,

533
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:45,719
Speaker 2: they actually saw furniture and they saw other sheets that

534
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:48,440
Speaker 2: matched that fitted sheet. They saw a mattress that was

535
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:52,520
Speaker 2: missing a fitted sheet. And think about this, you know

536
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:54,600
Speaker 2: we all have well no, we all most of us

537
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:56,239
Speaker 2: have a set of sheets. You know, you got your

538
00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:58,399
Speaker 2: fitted sheet, you've got your pillowcases, and you've got your

539
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:01,120
Speaker 2: other sheet that goes on before you put whatever. And

540
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:05,040
Speaker 2: that's what they saw inside. They had firsthand eyesight knowledge.

541
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:09,440
Speaker 2: We have this particular sheet color, all of that, but

542
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:13,080
Speaker 2: we're missing the fitted sheet from this mattress that we

543
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:15,600
Speaker 2: see over here. Now they find and by the way,

544
00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:20,319
Speaker 2: also there's a roll of gorilla tape next to the

545
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:23,359
Speaker 2: same area where the fitted sheet and mattress would have been.

546
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:26,080
Speaker 2: And what do we find on the fitted sheet that

547
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:30,760
Speaker 2: is actually wrapped around Madeline Kingsbury's body, but gorilla tape,

548
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:34,680
Speaker 2: and the gorilla tape matches the grilla tape role they

549
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:37,560
Speaker 2: find next to the other sheets that remained in the house.

550
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:40,719
Speaker 2: Granted a lot of us have gorilla tape, but when

551
00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:44,440
Speaker 2: you start stacking up the odds here, we know that

552
00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:47,600
Speaker 2: or believe that Madeline Kingsbury went into that home and

553
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:49,839
Speaker 2: never left on her own, that she was killed there,

554
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:52,600
Speaker 2: wrapped up in their own fittage sheet, and that gorilla

555
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:54,799
Speaker 2: tape was used to tape it up before she was

556
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 2: taken out and gotten rid of.

557
00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:01,319
Speaker 1: Yeah. And you know, with tape, for instance, even if

558
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:04,560
Speaker 1: you have it, all depends on how the edges are torn,

559
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:08,279
Speaker 1: because many times with tape, if you have the original role,

560
00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:12,880
Speaker 1: remember they found, they found a role in their residence.

561
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:18,279
Speaker 1: It is possible actually to marry up those edges that

562
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:25,120
Speaker 1: goes to our friends and tool mark and trace evidence. Yeah,

563
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:28,839
Speaker 1: where you can see if it's torn, and if it's cut,

564
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:33,879
Speaker 1: you can actually appreciate to a certain degree microscopically how

565
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:38,279
Speaker 1: was it cut. And you know, many people, if you

566
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 1: don't have a box cutter for instance, or even a knife,

567
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:44,000
Speaker 1: they'll I don't know, I'm guilty of it. I use

568
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:46,520
Speaker 1: my teeth, you know, to tear the edge of it

569
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:48,520
Speaker 1: and then just kind of rip it, and when you

570
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:52,040
Speaker 1: rip it depend upon how you catch it. You can

571
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:55,560
Speaker 1: leave kind of a jagged edge there well. And even

572
00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 1: if it's a clean tear, many times it might appear

573
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 1: it might appear clean to the unaided eye, but when

574
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:09,600
Speaker 1: you examine it microscopically, you can actually marry this up

575
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:15,080
Speaker 1: like a puzzle piece. So it's painstaking. And also you

576
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:17,640
Speaker 1: have to if the other role of tape, if the

577
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 1: original role of tape is in the house, it's been protected, right,

578
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:25,000
Speaker 1: well we have to think about the tape that's on

579
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:28,080
Speaker 1: the body that hasn't been protected. Has it been compromised

580
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:31,880
Speaker 1: to the point where that analysis did not take place.

581
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:36,800
Speaker 1: But either way, Dave, I got to introduce our friends

582
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:42,480
Speaker 1: to somebody here because arguably, out of all the people

583
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:45,240
Speaker 1: in the United States, out of all of the forensic

584
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 1: pathologists in the United States that could have had anything

585
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:54,400
Speaker 1: to have done with the examination of Madeline's remains, I

586
00:37:54,440 --> 00:38:01,760
Speaker 1: would say that this forensic pathologist is he's a legend.

587
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:07,319
Speaker 1: I mean in our world. Ross Zumwald is he has

588
00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:13,880
Speaker 1: trained more forensic pathologists than I can count over the years.

589
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:18,319
Speaker 1: He had been previously the chief medical Examiner for the

590
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:21,680
Speaker 1: state of New Mexico and you might say New Mexico. Yeah,

591
00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:26,560
Speaker 1: well that a very robust forensic fellowship pathology program, forensic

592
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:29,319
Speaker 1: pathology program there, and a lot of big names have

593
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:32,520
Speaker 1: come out of that program. And then on top of that,

594
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:40,440
Speaker 1: doctor Zumwalt has now become the chief medical examiner or

595
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:44,280
Speaker 1: one of the medical examiners down in this southeastern region

596
00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:48,080
Speaker 1: of Minnesota, and it happened to be in his jurisdiction.

597
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 1: So the assessment that would have been conducted on Madeline's remains,

598
00:38:55,280 --> 00:39:02,520
Speaker 1: and remember they received this cocooned body at the Emmy's office,

599
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:07,000
Speaker 1: Doctor Zumwalt would have done the most thorough job possibly

600
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:12,600
Speaker 1: in assessing and not just assessing the remains contained within

601
00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:16,479
Speaker 1: the shroud, but also the shroud itself or this I'm

602
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:21,759
Speaker 1: calling her shroud, but the fitted cheat. Knowing him, he

603
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:24,960
Speaker 1: would now I've met doctor Zumwalt on at least two occasions.

604
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:30,560
Speaker 1: Incredibly nice man. And just have you ever been around

605
00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:34,640
Speaker 1: someone where you're listening to them and you just know

606
00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:37,200
Speaker 1: they're brilliant, And that's the kind of person he is,

607
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:39,440
Speaker 1: you know, he just kind of exues this. I've heard

608
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:42,080
Speaker 1: him give speeches and that sort of thing, and you

609
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:47,120
Speaker 1: can see that evidenced in the students he's produced over

610
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:50,759
Speaker 1: the years. So they're very fortunate to have him on

611
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:55,439
Speaker 1: this case. But unfortunately, because of the time that has

612
00:39:55,680 --> 00:40:01,319
Speaker 1: elapsed here, Madeline's body has been calm promise or decomposition.

613
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:06,120
Speaker 1: So it's to say that it is difficult to make

614
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:12,480
Speaker 1: an assessment as to cause of death here is kind

615
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:16,840
Speaker 1: of an understatement because there's no glaring. There's no glaring

616
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:20,799
Speaker 1: trauma that's visible. And in the morgue, you know, we

617
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:25,840
Speaker 1: kind of sit around and you're relying upon many times

618
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:29,680
Speaker 1: circumstantial evidence to kind of drive to drive your thought

619
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:35,920
Speaker 1: process as to a determination of cause. And in Madeline's case,

620
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 1: they concluded that her cause of death was simply homicidal

621
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:46,799
Speaker 1: violence and her death was ruled as a homicide. I

622
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:51,960
Speaker 1: think probably logically, the way you arrive at that set

623
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:56,080
Speaker 1: of circumstances, why else or how else could someone come

624
00:40:56,239 --> 00:41:03,560
Speaker 1: to be shrouded, taped, sequestered in a culvert in an

625
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:08,920
Speaker 1: isolated area without this being homicide. She certainly didn't do

626
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:13,680
Speaker 1: this to herself. And just like magic eight Ball says,

627
00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:18,920
Speaker 1: all signs point to him, and so I'm you know,

628
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:21,960
Speaker 1: I'm thinking that that's the conclusion that he arrived at.

629
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:29,040
Speaker 1: Now I've heard, I've heard interestingly enough that her cause

630
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:34,279
Speaker 1: of death might actually rest in the idea that this

631
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:39,400
Speaker 1: is some kind of asphyxial death, perhaps maybe a suffocation,

632
00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:47,160
Speaker 1: perhaps smothering. Perhaps Is this plausible? Is it possible? Well,

633
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:50,280
Speaker 1: this goes back to an earlier narrative. Do you remember

634
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:53,719
Speaker 1: what I said about them traveling to drop the kids

635
00:41:53,719 --> 00:42:01,200
Speaker 1: off together? What if? What if there was some kind

636
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:06,239
Speaker 1: of offer made to try to reconcile and it was rejected.

637
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:10,360
Speaker 1: What if they had been laying in bed next together,

638
00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:14,480
Speaker 1: next to each other, and suddenly he was rejected by

639
00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:17,600
Speaker 1: this offer. I have no way of proving this. We

640
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:24,040
Speaker 1: don't know precisely what went on. Rage ensued, and he

641
00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:30,359
Speaker 1: decides at that last moment to end this precious life

642
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:35,359
Speaker 1: and to leave two children without a mother, to leave

643
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:41,080
Speaker 1: a life unfinished. Here's another bit of tragedy too. Along

644
00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:46,880
Speaker 1: with this, With everything that Madeline was involved with in

645
00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:52,440
Speaker 1: her life, in her proposed studies and research, there's no telling,

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00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:56,800
Speaker 1: Dave what she would have been covered as an epidemiologist.

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00:42:56,840 --> 00:43:01,520
Speaker 1: Perhaps in the future that could have led to discovery

648
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:06,000
Speaker 1: of maybe a cure for something out there patterns that

649
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:09,640
Speaker 1: you look for in public health. We'll never know the

650
00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:13,680
Speaker 1: answer to that, but what we do know is that

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00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:21,399
Speaker 1: Adam Fravell has now been convicted of second degree homicide

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00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:26,760
Speaker 1: in the case of Madeline, and he will be cooling

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00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:34,360
Speaker 1: his heels in the Minnesota State Penitentiary. I'm Joseph Scott

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00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:37,320
Speaker 1: Morgan and this is body Bats