1 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:07,760 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to stuff. 2 00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:09,640 Speaker 1: I never told your protection of I heart radios how 3 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:20,960 Speaker 1: stuff works. So before we start this one, I have 4 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:24,560 Speaker 1: confession to make. I feel very guilty. I got my 5 00:00:24,600 --> 00:00:29,840 Speaker 1: behavior at the party. Lest nay, I do not good 6 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:32,600 Speaker 1: for you. I do not. Yeah, I think I maintained 7 00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:36,920 Speaker 1: I feel shame for some of the things I was 8 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:43,960 Speaker 1: gonna come out maybe j K J. Yeah. I actually always, 9 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 1: I almost always feel really guilty after I UM at 10 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:50,319 Speaker 1: a party. Well, no matter what, I don't know. I'm 11 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:53,279 Speaker 1: just like, I get in my head about if I 12 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:57,480 Speaker 1: embarrassed myself for what were people thinking of? How it 13 00:00:57,560 --> 00:01:03,240 Speaker 1: is behaving? Um, because I am definitely viewed as a 14 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:05,680 Speaker 1: party girl. That is something I know, and I am 15 00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:10,319 Speaker 1: that's accurate because you maintain I I am there, I 16 00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 1: am there to party and have fun, and I Yeah, 17 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 1: if you invite me to something, it's pretty much guaranteed 18 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:17,920 Speaker 1: I will show it right and I will probably not 19 00:01:17,959 --> 00:01:23,040 Speaker 1: be there. Yeah. Or if you're like, um, I might 20 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:25,240 Speaker 1: watch The Winter Soldier and then I'm at your house, 21 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:28,880 Speaker 1: but first finish the text. I could sense it. Um, 22 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:32,319 Speaker 1: or we watch three movies instead of one? I do 23 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:36,319 Speaker 1: I actually do feel bad about it because I was 24 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 1: I went into that. This is for our our feminist movie. Friday, 25 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 1: we did a Batman Returns. I really went into that thinking, 26 00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:45,039 Speaker 1: I'm going to watch this one movie we work. It 27 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:47,080 Speaker 1: was a Monday. The next day was and I'm going 28 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 1: to go home and I maybe responsible. And then it's 29 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:51,720 Speaker 1: three am and we've watched two and a half movie, 30 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:55,400 Speaker 1: right right, So sorry about that. But we're talking about 31 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:59,280 Speaker 1: guilt and shame and blame and why women are so 32 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 1: easily aimed and so quick to take on blame. Right 33 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:05,880 Speaker 1: And before we get into the episode, I didn't want 34 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 1: to put the trigger warning here. We're briefly going to 35 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:12,720 Speaker 1: talk about things around sexual assault, miscarriage, domestic violence, mental illness, addiction, 36 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:14,960 Speaker 1: and self harming behaviors. We're not really going to get 37 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:16,840 Speaker 1: too deep into any of that stuff, but if it's 38 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:21,200 Speaker 1: triggering for you putting that out there, Um and yeah, 39 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 1: I guilt is like my best friend. I feel guilty 40 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:27,360 Speaker 1: all the time, and I feel ashamed all the time. 41 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 1: Um and yeah, I feel like sometimes I get this 42 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:34,040 Speaker 1: deep shame that when people see me, it feels like 43 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:36,160 Speaker 1: my skin is crawling and I just want to make 44 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:38,600 Speaker 1: myself really small and invisible. I don't want people to 45 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:40,600 Speaker 1: look at me. Right, Um, I do the same thing. 46 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:45,840 Speaker 1: I think it's natural for women, especially women with a 47 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:48,800 Speaker 1: lot of trauma. I think in general have and and 48 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 1: i'd say women, I mean anybody encompassing into those who 49 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 1: identify as female. Um, that it just kind of becomes 50 00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 1: a part of who you are. It's ingrained shame of 51 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 1: what you should be, the expectations of what you think 52 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:06,880 Speaker 1: is perfect or the idea of perfection, whether it's look, 53 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:10,760 Speaker 1: whether it's your jaw, whether it's just maintaining in society. 54 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:14,639 Speaker 1: I think it's overall overwhelming since of I'm not meeting 55 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:18,040 Speaker 1: these levels, so therefore I'm failing, and therefore I feel 56 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:20,040 Speaker 1: guilty and I feel ashamed of who I am or 57 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:22,680 Speaker 1: what I've done. And I think that's just a really 58 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:25,400 Speaker 1: hardship that it's really hard to let go of, especially 59 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 1: if you've learned that as a child. It's just a 60 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 1: part of your identity and it's hard to shake for sure. Yeah, 61 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:36,880 Speaker 1: And I think it goes hand in hand with for 62 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:40,080 Speaker 1: people who experienced trauma, feeling like you don't want to 63 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:42,440 Speaker 1: draw attention to yourself or I, like I said, in 64 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 1: our many series that we did. I feel like I 65 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:46,120 Speaker 1: have a wound on my face and like everyone can 66 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 1: see it, like it's really obvious, and so you don't 67 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 1: want people to see that thing that you are ashamed 68 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:58,200 Speaker 1: of you feel is really visible. And I, um physically 69 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:01,680 Speaker 1: manifest this and I kind of like twist s uff 70 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:04,440 Speaker 1: in a pretzel and I don't even realize I'm doing 71 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:06,800 Speaker 1: it until someone will point out, like, what's wrong with you? 72 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 1: Are you? Are you having a panic attack or something? 73 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 1: And I don't have to unwind. Um. So I didn't 74 00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 1: even recognize it a lot of the time. UM. And 75 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 1: there actually is a lot of science around the differences 76 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:27,040 Speaker 1: in definitions between shame and guilt, which we're going to 77 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 1: talk about. But I thought that was so interesting. So 78 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:31,440 Speaker 1: we're gonna give you the definitions, but there actually is 79 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 1: some disagreement on them. Um. So first we'll start with guilt. 80 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 1: The definition of guilt is a judgment of wrongdoing and 81 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:43,279 Speaker 1: from the Merriam Webster, the fact of having committed a 82 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:47,360 Speaker 1: breach of conduct, especially violating law and involving a penalty, 83 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:49,479 Speaker 1: or the state of one who has committed an offense, 84 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:54,560 Speaker 1: especially consciously. Yes. Um. And then there's also they go 85 00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:58,120 Speaker 1: on to expand there's feelings of deserving blame, especially for 86 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:01,880 Speaker 1: imagine defenses or from us sense of inadequacy self reproach, 87 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:06,800 Speaker 1: a feeling of deserving blame for offenses. So guilt usually 88 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:11,159 Speaker 1: involves correctly or incorrectly perceived responsibility, like I it was 89 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:14,599 Speaker 1: an abnormal action or choice that I made. I feel 90 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 1: guilty about that thing. Um, Yeah, and it usually leads 91 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:24,280 Speaker 1: to actionable things to make amends. And also today I 92 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 1: learned that psychologist calls self punishment due to guilt the 93 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:33,720 Speaker 1: Dabby effect Harry Potter reference. Yeah. Yes, And there are 94 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:35,919 Speaker 1: a bunch of different types of guilts, right, and one 95 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:37,800 Speaker 1: of them is survivor's guilt. And I know we've talked 96 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:40,680 Speaker 1: about this previously, the guilt felt of surviving a traumatic 97 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:43,560 Speaker 1: event when others did not. This might even involve believing 98 00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:46,560 Speaker 1: you did something wrong to survive. Experts positive that it 99 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:48,880 Speaker 1: comes from an irrational belief that there's a limited amount 100 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 1: of goodness in the world and any good a survivor 101 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 1: experiences comes at the expense of someone else, and just 102 00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 1: kind of on a personal level. For an adoptee, there's 103 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 1: a whole different level of survivor guilt as in fact, 104 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:05,600 Speaker 1: if you um research enough, there's a lot of discussion 105 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:08,159 Speaker 1: on the message boards and support groups about how to 106 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:10,960 Speaker 1: cope with survivors guilt, whether it's guilt from surviving a 107 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 1: bad circumstance when the others didn't, guilt fulfilling like you 108 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:16,039 Speaker 1: haven't met a certain expectation, or the filing you have 109 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 1: to earn your keep um. And there's a lot to 110 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:21,840 Speaker 1: be said about the constant reminder from others about how 111 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:25,480 Speaker 1: blessed someone should feel. Uh, And I think just place 112 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:28,120 Speaker 1: not being grateful. It's not the same thing as guilt, 113 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:31,479 Speaker 1: which is sometimes a manipulative tactic used on children. And 114 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:34,440 Speaker 1: with that, I see this in the foster systems as well, 115 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 1: where there they say you should be grateful, they will 116 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:40,279 Speaker 1: come to the children oftentimes be like, how lucky are you? 117 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:42,320 Speaker 1: You've got all these things? And there's this level of 118 00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:46,800 Speaker 1: responsibility that you have to constantly show appreciation and that 119 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:52,279 Speaker 1: if a you are questioning maybe your biological stance of 120 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:54,560 Speaker 1: your family and trying to find them, then then you're 121 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:57,520 Speaker 1: not being appreciative. If you're questioning and disagreeing with some 122 00:06:57,560 --> 00:06:59,919 Speaker 1: of the views within your family, then you're not being apprecy. 123 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:02,920 Speaker 1: There's just this whole level of guilt as well as 124 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 1: the fact that if you aren't showing and showing off 125 00:07:07,839 --> 00:07:11,480 Speaker 1: being the perfect family that you have, somehow messed up 126 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 1: this family. And I even had guilt as being an 127 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:17,920 Speaker 1: adopted person within a family that had biological children from 128 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:22,320 Speaker 1: taking away attention quote unquote from those those biological children. 129 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:25,560 Speaker 1: There's a whole different thing and it's something that and 130 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 1: when we talk about survivor's guilt, again, this is completely 131 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:31,400 Speaker 1: different from just traumatic guilt. But it's a whole different 132 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:33,680 Speaker 1: thing that that's a big discussion and oftentimes has to 133 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 1: be unpacked in therapy and in intense of therapy from 134 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:40,680 Speaker 1: a specialist. And again, like I said, it's often times 135 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 1: seen in the foster system as well. And then when 136 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:45,640 Speaker 1: something goes wrong and they're getting taken out of a 137 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:48,040 Speaker 1: placement or something, they feel that they are the blame 138 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 1: and they are the reason that something has failed, a 139 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:53,200 Speaker 1: placement has failed. And speaking of that, there's a different 140 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:56,360 Speaker 1: type of guilt which is a separation guild. Yes, um, 141 00:07:57,000 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 1: I didn't want to say, and you know we should, God, 142 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 1: no one would like to happen to me. We could 143 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 1: do a whole episode on Harry Potter and these like 144 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 1: survivor guilt, because that was something Harry Potter would be 145 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 1: a mess. He is way too functional, way too functional. 146 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:16,240 Speaker 1: But Uncle Vernon and you saw say that to him. 147 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:19,240 Speaker 1: You should be grateful for the cupboard that we put 148 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:22,960 Speaker 1: you into. Anyway. Yeah, that another type of guilt, separation guilt, UM, 149 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:25,120 Speaker 1: and this is the belief that separating or differing from 150 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:28,080 Speaker 1: family or friends in some way harms them, right. And 151 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:31,280 Speaker 1: that's definitely again as I've seen in UM a lot 152 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:34,520 Speaker 1: of foster care systems or when even when detaining children 153 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 1: separating families, there's a lot of traumatic issues and a 154 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:40,080 Speaker 1: part of that is that separation guilt, whether it's from 155 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:42,760 Speaker 1: the parent, whether it's from the kid. And there's also 156 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:46,760 Speaker 1: the whole thing with pets. They have separation anxiety and 157 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:49,000 Speaker 1: they kind of freak out, and it's that same level 158 00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:52,360 Speaker 1: two of that, are they coming back and if they 159 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:55,040 Speaker 1: don't come back, it's my fault or if we're not together, 160 00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:59,360 Speaker 1: it's my fault. Yeah, And I mean you can also 161 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:03,600 Speaker 1: see this in uh, like in my mom's family, everyone 162 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:08,840 Speaker 1: is really conservative but her and just having that guilt 163 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:11,720 Speaker 1: of like I don't agree with you and you feel 164 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:14,800 Speaker 1: bad about it, even though yeah, it totally makes sense 165 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 1: that we have different opinions and viewpoints, but you betraying 166 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:23,520 Speaker 1: the family exactly. Yeah yeah. Um. Then there's omnipotent responsibility guilt, 167 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 1: believing that one is responsible for the happiness of others. 168 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:30,720 Speaker 1: I connect with that one, so rush. Um. Self hate guilt, 169 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:34,440 Speaker 1: which is an extreme self loathing. This typically comes from 170 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 1: an abusive past. Then there's mommy guilt, and this is 171 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 1: a term that gets thrown around quite a bit when 172 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 1: we talk about women and guilt and yeah, and on 173 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:45,520 Speaker 1: this show we've discussed in depth about the pressure is 174 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:50,800 Speaker 1: placed on moms to be perfect and perfection is impossible, 175 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:55,600 Speaker 1: so guilt is therefore inevitable. UM. Women are also conditioned 176 00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:58,200 Speaker 1: to be a child's primary caretaker, which means if something 177 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:01,440 Speaker 1: happens to a child, the there feels guilty and is 178 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:04,679 Speaker 1: probably being blamed by those around her as well. This 179 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:08,960 Speaker 1: judgment of mothers can and often does lead to feelings 180 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:12,040 Speaker 1: of shame, and we see this play out all the time. UM. 181 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:15,080 Speaker 1: And the blame the mother trope. If if a man 182 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:18,440 Speaker 1: becomes a serial killer, blamed the mother. If he's not happy, 183 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:21,000 Speaker 1: blame the mother. If he can't find a job, blame 184 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 1: the mother. If he married somebody who's not good for 185 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:27,440 Speaker 1: him or some blame the mother, all these things. And 186 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:29,480 Speaker 1: then of course I got to mention Hereditary because it's 187 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:32,520 Speaker 1: my favorite movie every uh no spoilers, but Tony Collette's 188 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 1: character Annie, Um, she touches on this in her group 189 00:10:35,559 --> 00:10:38,960 Speaker 1: counseling session where she says, I am I feel like 190 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:42,840 Speaker 1: I am to blame or I am blames and it 191 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:46,080 Speaker 1: has to do ultimately with something we're gonna talk about 192 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:51,880 Speaker 1: a minute, but I'm um her genes, genetics, Hereditary, And 193 00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:53,959 Speaker 1: then Scream also got to talk about that because some 194 00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:57,200 Speaker 1: one of my favorite movies, that entire series is pretty 195 00:10:57,280 --> 00:11:01,000 Speaker 1: much to blame the mother trope. It's these moms fault 196 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:05,640 Speaker 1: for literally everything in every movie. The serial Killer in 197 00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:07,839 Speaker 1: the second one even says I'm sick to death of 198 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:10,520 Speaker 1: people thinking it's all the mother's fault, you know, as 199 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:15,080 Speaker 1: she's trying to kill all these people, and yeah, she 200 00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:17,360 Speaker 1: kind of reinforces the trope. She calls it out and 201 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:21,120 Speaker 1: then reinforces it. Um. Yeah, it's just just something we 202 00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:26,240 Speaker 1: see often. Yeah. So another aspect of this conversation is 203 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:29,319 Speaker 1: the postpartum guilt and or assigning blame when it comes 204 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:32,920 Speaker 1: to things like still birth and miscarriage. Experts positive this 205 00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:35,400 Speaker 1: is a coping mechanism to find meaning in a sense 206 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:38,440 Speaker 1: of control in a really tragic situation, and feeling this 207 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 1: way in the wake of a tragedy is totally normal. 208 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:45,440 Speaker 1: But if it persists or becomes chronically debilitating, that points 209 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 1: to a deeper issue. And one study found that almost 210 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:51,080 Speaker 1: fifty of women blame their healthcare providers for their child's 211 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:54,000 Speaker 1: death when surveyed a year later. That could mean that 212 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:57,320 Speaker 1: they won't trust healthcare professionals moving forward. And that makes 213 00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:00,839 Speaker 1: a lot of sense because they need to blame some thing. Yeah, 214 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:03,839 Speaker 1: and if it's something outwardly it does it puts It's 215 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:07,440 Speaker 1: a lot of pressure on um, many of those who 216 00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:10,400 Speaker 1: have given bars and or have lost child for sure. 217 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:14,000 Speaker 1: Several studies have looked into the guilt of a mother 218 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:17,680 Speaker 1: um and the guilt she often feels that passing on 219 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:21,839 Speaker 1: genet conditions to her children. The research indicates mothers feel 220 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:25,400 Speaker 1: more guilt and face more blame for sex linked conditions 221 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:28,800 Speaker 1: as compared to men. Screening programs for pregnant women that 222 00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:33,960 Speaker 1: identify autosomal recessive disorders are viewed as the responsibility of 223 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 1: women who want to get pregnant, so not doing so 224 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:43,760 Speaker 1: invites guilt and blame. Yeah, and then there's white guilt, um, 225 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:46,520 Speaker 1: And this is a case where guilt can be extremely hindering. 226 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:50,080 Speaker 1: It can lead to inaction through fear or perhaps even 227 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 1: looking for an excuse not to act. And this also 228 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:55,640 Speaker 1: means more emotional labor for people of color basically white 229 00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:59,199 Speaker 1: people asking them to make people of color may make 230 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 1: people to make them feel better, right as in fact, 231 00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:04,679 Speaker 1: in our episode on forgiveness, we had a listener talk 232 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:07,000 Speaker 1: about it, um and send us a message and it's 233 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:09,520 Speaker 1: absolutely correct. So there's a narrative that seems to be 234 00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:12,600 Speaker 1: continuing with this his who whole idea, especially after the 235 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:14,800 Speaker 1: trial of the murder of both the Geane in which 236 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:17,600 Speaker 1: the brother and the judge hugged Amber Geiger after her 237 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:21,000 Speaker 1: sentencing um. And it was kind of that conversation of 238 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 1: all right, this is a sign of forgiveness and how 239 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:26,920 Speaker 1: we're going to move on. But the black community felt 240 00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:30,000 Speaker 1: like this is one more scene in which a person 241 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:32,840 Speaker 1: who was innocent and was black was murdered and they 242 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:35,840 Speaker 1: had to turn the other cheek and forgive, and everybody 243 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:39,760 Speaker 1: was praising this whole idea instead of saying, okay, but 244 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:44,000 Speaker 1: this is not true justice. They got the tenure sentence, 245 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:47,640 Speaker 1: she whatever, and at least she was convicted. However, this 246 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:49,760 Speaker 1: is still not the biggest steps because this man was 247 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 1: sitting in his apartment minding his own business and he 248 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:57,200 Speaker 1: got shot down, and we know things happen, whatever, But 249 00:13:57,320 --> 00:14:02,000 Speaker 1: it's this continuous verba in which there is this idea 250 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:04,040 Speaker 1: that you need to let go, and there's this pressure 251 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:06,480 Speaker 1: put it on the black community saying, oh, just let 252 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:09,480 Speaker 1: it go. Why are you so angry? Especially black women, 253 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:11,559 Speaker 1: They are caught up in this whole trope of you're 254 00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 1: supposed to be forgiven. You're supposed to be forgiven, and 255 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:18,000 Speaker 1: if you're angry, why you're not allotted that time or 256 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:23,520 Speaker 1: allotted that emotion, to be honest and saying this is 257 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:28,920 Speaker 1: unbelievably unforgivable, and I am angry, and I think again, 258 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:31,360 Speaker 1: this is where the continuous debate lingers between all the 259 00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:35,040 Speaker 1: lines of boundaries as well as talking about forgiveness versus forgetting, 260 00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:38,000 Speaker 1: and why is it that we expect a community to 261 00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:40,680 Speaker 1: continually turn the other cheek and when it seems to 262 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:44,040 Speaker 1: be a continued a piece of relationship for this community 263 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:46,120 Speaker 1: in which the black people are told let it go, 264 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 1: but nothing is being done in the name of justice. Instead, 265 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:55,360 Speaker 1: there's all these unreasonable arguments about why they should let 266 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:58,280 Speaker 1: it go and move on. And that's not okay. And 267 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:00,640 Speaker 1: I think that's part of the conversation that's not had 268 00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:04,800 Speaker 1: enough when we talk about blaming others, that when someone 269 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:09,120 Speaker 1: should feel guilt and shame, that the other person should 270 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:11,920 Speaker 1: let it go. And that's not necessarily how we should 271 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:15,280 Speaker 1: be right, just just a little tied right there, just 272 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:22,360 Speaker 1: a little tir uh that what speaking of tire rage feminism, Um, 273 00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:25,720 Speaker 1: Feminist guilt is another thing. Um. This was my very 274 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:27,880 Speaker 1: first episode I did was about being a bad feminist 275 00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:31,480 Speaker 1: and the guilt I feel around that. Yeah, because we 276 00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:34,200 Speaker 1: hold ourselves up to a set of standards that are 277 00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:38,400 Speaker 1: virtually impossible to live up to all the time. Um. 278 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:41,000 Speaker 1: And this opens us up to judgment within the community 279 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:44,600 Speaker 1: as well. Um, if your identity is tied up in 280 00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:48,560 Speaker 1: a movement like feminism, that can be extremely detrimental that 281 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:52,680 Speaker 1: kind of judgment. Um. And yeah, that can keep people 282 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:58,560 Speaker 1: out for sure, um from Baronese fishers essay, guilt and 283 00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:01,480 Speaker 1: shame in the women's movement, radical ideal of action and 284 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:06,640 Speaker 1: its meaning for feminist intellectuals quote for contemporary feminist This 285 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:10,360 Speaker 1: tendency to psychologize issues of guilt maybe partially strong because 286 00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:13,040 Speaker 1: of our emphasis on feelings and because of the fear 287 00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 1: we have committed unspeakable wrongs to the women we claim 288 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:18,400 Speaker 1: as our sisters. But as participants in a radical movement, 289 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:20,720 Speaker 1: we also need to question the rules by which we 290 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:25,280 Speaker 1: make such judgments. Is guilt a patriarchal notion? Can we 291 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:27,640 Speaker 1: develop a feminist understanding of guilt as a part of 292 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:30,360 Speaker 1: a feminist ethic? How should we deal with the concept 293 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:33,200 Speaker 1: of collective guilt? Are women responsible for the racism, the 294 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 1: class oppression, and other injustices perpetrated by our fathers or mothers? 295 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:40,600 Speaker 1: How do we assess our current complicity and such wrongdoing? 296 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:44,360 Speaker 1: Does our participation in sexist, racist, homophobic, or anti Semitic 297 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:47,520 Speaker 1: institutions make us guilty? What is the relation between guilt 298 00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:50,480 Speaker 1: and responsibility? If we adopt a concept of guilt, do 299 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:53,200 Speaker 1: we hold on to some notion of atonement or responsibility? 300 00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:56,320 Speaker 1: So a lot of questions, There is a lot of thought, 301 00:16:57,240 --> 00:17:01,400 Speaker 1: uh and debate around around guilt happening right now and 302 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:06,320 Speaker 1: in our I guess the eighties is pretty modern. I 303 00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:09,760 Speaker 1: don't know why. Oh my gosh, the eighties so long ago, 304 00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:13,800 Speaker 1: thirty years ago, thirty years ago, so yeah, I guess 305 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:17,800 Speaker 1: that's thirty years ago. I mean that was the late too, 306 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:20,000 Speaker 1: And I think a lot of that also we need 307 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:23,840 Speaker 1: to put in there about how guilt can make you react, 308 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:27,159 Speaker 1: you know, And I think I've seen this in feminism 309 00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:30,200 Speaker 1: as well, like feminist guilt in this idea that either 310 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:32,240 Speaker 1: they feel like they're cornered when they feel guilty, so 311 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 1: they start lashing out inappropriately to other women, or because 312 00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:38,760 Speaker 1: either what they're not doing enough or they're doing too much, 313 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:40,840 Speaker 1: or they're not doing it right, and that's just kind 314 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:42,720 Speaker 1: of caught up in all of that guilt that they 315 00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:44,439 Speaker 1: fell within themselves so they don't know what to do, 316 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:49,560 Speaker 1: or even just giving up. Yeah. Yeah, I certainly feel 317 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:52,919 Speaker 1: a lot of guilt around well I should have done this, 318 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:54,800 Speaker 1: or I should go do this, or should There's just 319 00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:57,159 Speaker 1: a million things I feel like I should be doing. 320 00:17:57,720 --> 00:18:02,200 Speaker 1: But you know there's no I'm oh no, no, I'm 321 00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:07,119 Speaker 1: making excuses. Guilt tripping. Um, that is we all probably 322 00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:09,200 Speaker 1: are familiar with that. But it's weaponizing guilt to get 323 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:13,480 Speaker 1: someone to do something that we want them to do. UM, 324 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:17,800 Speaker 1: so that is just guilt. We still have to talk 325 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:21,800 Speaker 1: about blame and shame, but first we have to pause 326 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:37,440 Speaker 1: for a quick break for words more sponsors, and we're back. 327 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:39,359 Speaker 1: Thank you sponsored. We are back, and we're going to 328 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:43,000 Speaker 1: talk about blame. So a definition from Marion Webster is 329 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:46,960 Speaker 1: to find fault with or censure, to hold responsible, to 330 00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:52,600 Speaker 1: place responsibility for Yeah, that seems more more simple than guilts. UM. 331 00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:57,679 Speaker 1: Relentless self blame, founded or not is a symptom of depression. 332 00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:01,360 Speaker 1: It's linked to another symptom over generalization. So for example, 333 00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:03,920 Speaker 1: I'm not good at X, so I must be terrible 334 00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:05,359 Speaker 1: at X y Z. I'm not good at this one 335 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:07,200 Speaker 1: particular thing. That means me as a person, I'm bad 336 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:10,639 Speaker 1: at everything, right, um. Scientists recently found that people with 337 00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:14,680 Speaker 1: depression have an uncoupling or lack of communication between two 338 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:16,520 Speaker 1: key aerias of the brain when it comes to feeling 339 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:19,640 Speaker 1: the appropriate amount of guilt. I did have so many 340 00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:24,240 Speaker 1: questions about appropriate amount, but the survey found the city 341 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:27,159 Speaker 1: found the anterior temporal lobe, which plays a role in 342 00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:31,400 Speaker 1: determining socially acceptable behavior, and the sub general singulate cortex 343 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:34,560 Speaker 1: and the adjacent septal region, which has to do with 344 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:37,680 Speaker 1: our feelings of guilt. Yeah, these areas were uncoupled. The 345 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:41,680 Speaker 1: communication between them only falters when it came to self blame, 346 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:44,840 Speaker 1: though it worked perfectly fine when it comes to blaming 347 00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:48,359 Speaker 1: others in the context of people with depression. Interesting, So, 348 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:51,199 Speaker 1: victim blaming, we've talked about this over and over on 349 00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:53,639 Speaker 1: the show is exactly what it sounds like, blaming the 350 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 1: victim instead of the perpetrator. It plays a huge role 351 00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:59,639 Speaker 1: in sexual assault and domestic violence, both of which statistically 352 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:02,680 Speaker 1: imp women more than men. And why are we so 353 00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:05,320 Speaker 1: ready to blame the victim besides the fact that we 354 00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:08,240 Speaker 1: don't value women's bodies. Maybe it's health or maybe well 355 00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:11,200 Speaker 1: being in our culture. Um express point to something called 356 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:14,960 Speaker 1: the just world bias, developed by Melvin Larner in the 357 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:17,959 Speaker 1: nineteen sixties. We want to believe the world is fair, 358 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:20,760 Speaker 1: that bad things don't happen to good people. That means 359 00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:23,480 Speaker 1: that we blame the victim. They must have done something 360 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:26,000 Speaker 1: to bring it on themselves. Otherwise the world is a 361 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:29,639 Speaker 1: much more frightening place where things don't always make sense, 362 00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:33,280 Speaker 1: and we could do everything right and still be victimized. 363 00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:35,760 Speaker 1: We are the mercy of forces out of our control, 364 00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:38,399 Speaker 1: and studies a shown that believing in a fair, just 365 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:41,920 Speaker 1: world increases positive health outcomes. But if you think you've 366 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:44,120 Speaker 1: got a bright future, you're more likely to take care 367 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:48,280 Speaker 1: of yourself and less likely they have something like depression. However, 368 00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:50,960 Speaker 1: it does come to that whole God will bless me, 369 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:56,119 Speaker 1: God willhelm me, and again having faith, having and hope 370 00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:58,439 Speaker 1: and things that it's not a bad thing, But it 371 00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:00,639 Speaker 1: definitely does come to a play when you feel like 372 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:04,200 Speaker 1: maybe some almost deserving of something because of and God's 373 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:07,159 Speaker 1: only blessing you if you're okay, right, right, right, if 374 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:10,440 Speaker 1: you behave in a certain way. UM. Women often self 375 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:14,560 Speaker 1: blame or victim blame themselves for the very same reasons. 376 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:16,760 Speaker 1: The reality of what happened can be difficult to face. 377 00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:19,840 Speaker 1: In some ways, blaming yourself is easier than accepting, especially 378 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:22,040 Speaker 1: if in the case of sexual sought it someone you know. 379 00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:28,960 Speaker 1: It can be easier, unfortunately, to think, well, I must 380 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:31,919 Speaker 1: have done something wrong other than this person did this 381 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:35,200 Speaker 1: horrible thing, this person that I know. Um. Yet another 382 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:37,760 Speaker 1: study found that empathy is a part of why we 383 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:43,480 Speaker 1: victim blamed to empathy, especially among men. For the male perpetrators. Yeah, 384 00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:45,000 Speaker 1: so going off what I just said, a men are 385 00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:49,639 Speaker 1: overall more likely to blame the victims. Another recent study 386 00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:52,440 Speaker 1: found that while self harming behaviors among boys has stayed 387 00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:56,159 Speaker 1: relatively the same over the past couple of years, it 388 00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:59,239 Speaker 1: is skyrocketing among girls. And one of the reasons for this, 389 00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:02,720 Speaker 1: according to the researchers, is that girls internalize their pain 390 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:06,719 Speaker 1: and anger while boys externalize it. Girls turn it in 391 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 1: on themselves. And when considering why, the researchers had a 392 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:13,480 Speaker 1: whole range of potential factors, the what was she wearing, attitude, 393 00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:15,600 Speaker 1: she was asking for it, why didn't she stop at 394 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:18,199 Speaker 1: dress code? Staying quiet and docile, so it's not to 395 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:21,560 Speaker 1: provoke violence, all these things putting responsibility of the actions 396 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:25,520 Speaker 1: of others on girls and women. And in our Fear episode, 397 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:28,879 Speaker 1: we talked about how we're sort of hardwired to analyze 398 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:30,600 Speaker 1: bad things that happen to other people and figure out 399 00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:33,440 Speaker 1: what we shouldn't do in those circumstances so the same 400 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:36,120 Speaker 1: thing won't happen to us. And you and I talked 401 00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:38,679 Speaker 1: about that with the self defense classes and what that 402 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:41,959 Speaker 1: kind of focuses on, as well as the fact that 403 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:45,639 Speaker 1: if you just recently saw the victim who rejected a 404 00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:48,760 Speaker 1: man then was kidnapped and murdered and all she did 405 00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:51,320 Speaker 1: was just ignore him. Actually, she didn't need to reject him. 406 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:54,880 Speaker 1: Let me take that back. She ignored him, yeah, when 407 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:57,280 Speaker 1: he was cat calling her, and that was enough for 408 00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:01,080 Speaker 1: him to justify kidnapping and murdering this woman. And again, 409 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:04,040 Speaker 1: I think we've progressed enough that we are not completely like, 410 00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:06,160 Speaker 1: oh but what did she why didn't she? But it's 411 00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:09,320 Speaker 1: still not quite that clear. They still see people say, well, 412 00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:10,879 Speaker 1: they could have done this, or why didn't they do this? 413 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:14,600 Speaker 1: Or do this, and again they use this as a 414 00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:18,520 Speaker 1: tale um a cautionary tale for us. Next maybe you 415 00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:21,800 Speaker 1: should do this instead. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And that 416 00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:24,760 Speaker 1: that is something I know a lot of listeners can 417 00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:26,919 Speaker 1: probably relate to you, and I certainly can. But the 418 00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:30,840 Speaker 1: amount of tips I get for saying safe in a 419 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:33,440 Speaker 1: city as a single woman, oh my gosh, it's absurd. 420 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:36,520 Speaker 1: It's also a pretty good tool to maintain the status quo. 421 00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:40,080 Speaker 1: The oppressed only have themselves to blame in this mindset, 422 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:42,800 Speaker 1: So when we're thinking of victim blaming. We usually think 423 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:45,320 Speaker 1: of sexual assaults, but we can also see it weaponized 424 00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:47,920 Speaker 1: against women in a myriad of ways, including the ginger 425 00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:50,600 Speaker 1: pay gap. Women are good at negotiating as they aren't 426 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:55,600 Speaker 1: as skills. They use vocal fry. Vocal fry. I guess 427 00:23:55,680 --> 00:24:00,840 Speaker 1: I'm the vocal fry. Oh my gosh, and then people 428 00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:04,840 Speaker 1: turned it off. Yeah, I actually had it was a woman, 429 00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:08,639 Speaker 1: A vocal coach came in when I started this show, 430 00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:11,920 Speaker 1: and she she gave me a lot of good tips, 431 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:14,800 Speaker 1: but a lot of them were essentially, don't do these 432 00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:17,920 Speaker 1: things that are associated with right and as. In fact, 433 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:20,960 Speaker 1: I saw one of our friends, one of our co hosts, 434 00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:23,520 Speaker 1: just put it out there asking people what they don't 435 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:27,840 Speaker 1: like about podcasts, and a couple of women said the 436 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:29,760 Speaker 1: first thing they said was vocal fry, and I was like, 437 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:34,439 Speaker 1: are you kidding me? Yeah, it's hard to say any email. 438 00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:42,800 Speaker 1: Maybe she didn't use the stereotypical smiley face to indicate um, 439 00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:44,960 Speaker 1: And then I was thinking about cheating. She didn't could 440 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:47,320 Speaker 1: possibly go under this whole victim blaming thing as well. 441 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:51,399 Speaker 1: In heterosexual relationships, when a man cheats, why are we 442 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:55,399 Speaker 1: so ready to blame his female significant other? She she 443 00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:57,720 Speaker 1: didn't do enough to make him stay, she should have 444 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:01,600 Speaker 1: left him earlier, et cetera. Ah Um. Since we believe 445 00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:05,320 Speaker 1: that women are better at relationships and we've typically done 446 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:07,879 Speaker 1: a lot of the work maintaining them, the blame of 447 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:12,040 Speaker 1: a failed relationship falls at women's feet. The mistress gets 448 00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:16,439 Speaker 1: blamed too, but not the cheating man, not as much. Right. Actually, 449 00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:20,000 Speaker 1: I just saw a thread about Cardi b and how 450 00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:21,840 Speaker 1: she's just then they were just like, I can't believe 451 00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:24,240 Speaker 1: she's apathetic, and they just called her out, and everybody 452 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,280 Speaker 1: on that was like, why are you blaming her? And 453 00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:29,600 Speaker 1: then many were going just back and forth about why 454 00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:31,960 Speaker 1: it was her fault for staying, for knowing and all 455 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:34,640 Speaker 1: these things. And I was just thinking about, like, it's 456 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:37,880 Speaker 1: so hard to have that fine line of trust and 457 00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:40,399 Speaker 1: love and we know love is difficult in itself, and 458 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:41,800 Speaker 1: you think you've got it, and she's got out a 459 00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:47,000 Speaker 1: baby with this man. This happens often, yeah, and you know, 460 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:50,520 Speaker 1: why is it her fault? Yeah? And I also think 461 00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:55,080 Speaker 1: if we looked out at um daughters as well, there 462 00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:59,560 Speaker 1: there's a pressure of like, keep I can keep this 463 00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:02,440 Speaker 1: family together if I like do all of these things. 464 00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:06,399 Speaker 1: And then if your family doesn't stay together, then it 465 00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:10,280 Speaker 1: was somehow your fault, and there is the whole troupe, 466 00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:12,879 Speaker 1: and then the whole turn women against women. It is 467 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:15,360 Speaker 1: always the guy just comes out smelling like roses while 468 00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:18,480 Speaker 1: the two women fight. Yes, it's the weirdest thing. I 469 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:21,359 Speaker 1: never understood that. A two thousand six things study found 470 00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:24,160 Speaker 1: that people with higher levels of binding values, or moral 471 00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:27,479 Speaker 1: values that are foundational two groups coming and stay together 472 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:30,439 Speaker 1: are more likely to place some sort of blame on 473 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:34,520 Speaker 1: the victims. This often conflicts with the individualizing values, which 474 00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:38,960 Speaker 1: emphasizes equality for everyone. In the US, conservatives are more 475 00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:42,399 Speaker 1: likely to have more binding values, while liberals lean towards 476 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:46,119 Speaker 1: individualizing values. In another study conducted by the same study, 477 00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:49,240 Speaker 1: authors found that language that focused on what the perpetrator 478 00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:52,640 Speaker 1: did victim blaming went down. Yes, so if you switched 479 00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:56,000 Speaker 1: in this study, they did if you switched the sentence 480 00:26:56,040 --> 00:27:00,200 Speaker 1: from like, say, Gene had a lot to drink and 481 00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:04,760 Speaker 1: Tom assaulted her if you said like Tom. If you 482 00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:08,720 Speaker 1: switched it so the focus that was on Tom assaulted Gene, 483 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:12,520 Speaker 1: then people were less likely to victim blame. Right. It's 484 00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:14,800 Speaker 1: kind of like the photos when you have a a 485 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,400 Speaker 1: person versus a person. So if you have, let's say, 486 00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:20,000 Speaker 1: um with the Black Lives Matter stuff, they would often 487 00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:23,600 Speaker 1: have like whatever arrest picture for the victim, and then 488 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:26,040 Speaker 1: the hero picture for if it was a cop. And 489 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:29,600 Speaker 1: please understand, I'm not here to say cops are bad. 490 00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:31,679 Speaker 1: I'm not here to say that at all. But in 491 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:33,960 Speaker 1: those touch votes where they make sure to demonize one 492 00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:36,880 Speaker 1: versus the other, it's very very obvious of what you're 493 00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:40,160 Speaker 1: going to assume. Just find the pictures alone, exactly. Yeah, 494 00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:45,480 Speaker 1: And that brings us to shame. UM. And the definition 495 00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:49,000 Speaker 1: for shame is a judgment of self not living up 496 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:52,920 Speaker 1: to an ideal. And the Miriam Webster definition is a 497 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:56,800 Speaker 1: quote a painful emotion caused by consciousness of guilt, shortcoming, 498 00:27:56,880 --> 00:28:01,880 Speaker 1: or impropriety. The susceptibility of such emotion a condition of humilating, disgrace, 499 00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:06,639 Speaker 1: or disrepute, something that brings censure or reproach, also something 500 00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:10,639 Speaker 1: to be regretted, and it usually shame usually leads to 501 00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:16,639 Speaker 1: withdrawal behaviors from Reconsidering the differences between shame and guilt, quote, 502 00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:20,439 Speaker 1: shame is an unpleasant emotion implying a self evaluation of 503 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:24,240 Speaker 1: inadequacy to meet the standards of one's ideal self. The 504 00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:27,640 Speaker 1: self attributed inadequacy may or may not imply a global 505 00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:30,520 Speaker 1: negative self few. Moreover, it may or may not be 506 00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:34,080 Speaker 1: perceived as stable and uncontrollable. Only if it is perceived 507 00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:37,280 Speaker 1: as uncontrollable and stable, shame will be associated with helplessness 508 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:40,760 Speaker 1: and hopelessness. A shame people may regard themselves as either 509 00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:43,920 Speaker 1: responsible or non responsible for a fault, but in any case, 510 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:48,719 Speaker 1: when experiencing pure shame, they are not considering responsibility issues. Guilt, 511 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:51,880 Speaker 1: on the other hand, is an unpleasant emotion implying a 512 00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:55,360 Speaker 1: negative self evaluation against one's moral standards, that is, the 513 00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:58,760 Speaker 1: standards concerning those behavior's, goals, beliefs, or treats for which 514 00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:03,000 Speaker 1: one regards oneself as responsible. The evaluation is negative and 515 00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:06,560 Speaker 1: that such behaviors, goals, etcetera. Are viewed as harmful. Therefore, 516 00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:11,200 Speaker 1: guilt implies a self evaluation of responsible harmfulness, that is, wrongfulness. 517 00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:14,479 Speaker 1: The wrongdoing can be either actual or potential, that is, 518 00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:18,480 Speaker 1: a possible consequence of personal traits and dispositions, provided the 519 00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:21,960 Speaker 1: person views such shits as a modifiable through effort, thereby 520 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:25,080 Speaker 1: feeling responsible for not trying to modify them. So that's 521 00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:27,680 Speaker 1: a lot. That's a lot. But basically what it was 522 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:34,000 Speaker 1: that this this was a fascinating look right at the 523 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:39,200 Speaker 1: complexity of shame and guilt. Um and it's it feels 524 00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:41,280 Speaker 1: bad to boil it down because the whole thing was 525 00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:45,200 Speaker 1: about don't boil it down. But it's pretty much shame 526 00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:52,440 Speaker 1: is there's something just wrong with you and that's why 527 00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:57,040 Speaker 1: something happened, whereas guilt is like, here's this thing that 528 00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:01,160 Speaker 1: I did that violates my more world principles and is 529 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:05,200 Speaker 1: abnormal behavior for me, Like I believe that is wrong 530 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:09,080 Speaker 1: and it is something that I have control over and 531 00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:15,240 Speaker 1: responsibility for. That's pretty much right. The difference, Um, yeah, 532 00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:17,840 Speaker 1: there's a whole lot, definitely. So shame can involve a 533 00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:21,560 Speaker 1: whole host of physical symptoms increased heart rate, sweat flushing, 534 00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:26,880 Speaker 1: head hanging, shoulder, hunting, withdrawing, avoiding, eye contact, nausea, disneys, 535 00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:29,680 Speaker 1: and or self loathing. And you might think to yourself 536 00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:32,960 Speaker 1: that you are a failure, that you are unlovable and 537 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:36,040 Speaker 1: stuff like that. And it can also contribute to addiction. 538 00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:39,160 Speaker 1: It can hold you back at work and in relationships 539 00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:41,600 Speaker 1: that shame of I can't do this, so therefore I'm 540 00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:43,760 Speaker 1: not going to do this, so therefore I have failed. 541 00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:47,320 Speaker 1: And some studies have linked shame to increase inflammation, which 542 00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:49,960 Speaker 1: is an indicator of disease and or illness, which makes 543 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:52,720 Speaker 1: sense because shame is tied to stress, which is tied 544 00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:57,000 Speaker 1: to all kinds of negative health outcomes. Research suggests that 545 00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:01,720 Speaker 1: men transform shame into feelings of anger or defensiveness, while 546 00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:04,640 Speaker 1: women are more likely to internalize it again turning it 547 00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:09,120 Speaker 1: on themselves. Blame is often a way of redirecting the 548 00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:13,360 Speaker 1: powerlessness that comes with shame. Shame has also been positively 549 00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:18,120 Speaker 1: linked to aggression and hostilities. Other studies found no link though, 550 00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:21,080 Speaker 1: so that is also still ongoing. Research is on going there, 551 00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:24,120 Speaker 1: and shame and guild is integral when it comes to addiction, 552 00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:27,320 Speaker 1: frequently a major factor in preventing addicts from seeking help. 553 00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:30,320 Speaker 1: Um kind of Similarly, we discussed in our Trauma mini 554 00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:33,280 Speaker 1: series how feelings of shame after a sexual assault is 555 00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:35,440 Speaker 1: a major obstacle when it comes to reporting or even 556 00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:40,320 Speaker 1: telling someone what happened. Yeah, yeah, because shame shame is 557 00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:43,960 Speaker 1: something you want to hide. Um, so it will keep 558 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:47,680 Speaker 1: you from admitting that you need help or or just 559 00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:53,200 Speaker 1: even telling someone this is maybe I'm dealing with a 560 00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:56,560 Speaker 1: substance abuse issue or sexual assault because it's something you 561 00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:59,320 Speaker 1: want to hide in your right, was shamed of and 562 00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:02,960 Speaker 1: oftentimes us with adas this self medicating that is that 563 00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:04,600 Speaker 1: whole I'm going to do it myself. I want to 564 00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:08,600 Speaker 1: fix myself right because I don't want to share. I'm ashamed, right, 565 00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:11,520 Speaker 1: And that ties in again that's kind of the vicious 566 00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:14,640 Speaker 1: cycle of UM sexual assault and we talked about that 567 00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:16,320 Speaker 1: in our Trauma mini series. Is that a lot of 568 00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:19,200 Speaker 1: people who have gone through trauma, they are trying to 569 00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:23,080 Speaker 1: self medicate to deal with the trauma, and that in 570 00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:29,040 Speaker 1: turn can lead to also a substance abuse issue. Yeah. Um, 571 00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:31,800 Speaker 1: So that's what we have to say about those three 572 00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:34,160 Speaker 1: things when it gives a definition, and that is a 573 00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:37,200 Speaker 1: lot to say. But we still have some more um. 574 00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:39,160 Speaker 1: But first we have one more quick break for word 575 00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:57,800 Speaker 1: from our sponsor and we're back, Thank you, sponsor. Steady 576 00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:00,240 Speaker 1: out of the University of the Basque kind Tree in 577 00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:03,880 Speaker 1: Spain found that women feel more guilt compared to men. 578 00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:06,320 Speaker 1: And not only that, the researchers found men, especially in 579 00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:11,080 Speaker 1: men aged thirty three, don't feel enough guilt relative to 580 00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:14,360 Speaker 1: their actions. Yeah, that makes me chuckle to you again. 581 00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:17,880 Speaker 1: Enough guilt, but all right? Um? That does change as 582 00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:21,800 Speaker 1: they get older. Middle aged women take on the most guilt. 583 00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:25,960 Speaker 1: The researchers theorized women are socially conditioned to feel more guilt, 584 00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:29,760 Speaker 1: and and that isn't based on evolution or brain chemistry 585 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:33,520 Speaker 1: or something like that. Society puts higher expectations on women, 586 00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:38,080 Speaker 1: increasing the chances of us not living up to those expectations, 587 00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:41,720 Speaker 1: and therefore our feelings of guilt are feelings of being 588 00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:45,560 Speaker 1: a failure. The study concluded. The guilt most frequently experienced 589 00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:48,520 Speaker 1: by women is called anxious aggressive guilt are causing some 590 00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:51,160 Speaker 1: sort of harm to another person. This could be something 591 00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:54,560 Speaker 1: as simple as saying no to someone. According to study 592 00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:58,680 Speaker 1: author its Te Sparia, the anxious aggressive kind of guilt 593 00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:00,880 Speaker 1: is more common in people who have been raised in 594 00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:04,120 Speaker 1: a more blame imposing environment and who are governed by 595 00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:07,719 Speaker 1: stricter rules about behavior in general and aggression in particular. 596 00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:10,919 Speaker 1: To combat all of this, she suggested a whole range 597 00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:13,759 Speaker 1: of practices to reduce the readiness to accept guilt and 598 00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:16,480 Speaker 1: women and the social forces behind them, as well as 599 00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:21,160 Speaker 1: improving men's interpersonal skills. This could also play into why 600 00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:24,279 Speaker 1: women apologize more frequently and repeatedly, not in the conversational 601 00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:28,399 Speaker 1: way of I'm sorry that happened to you, but legitimately, Oh, 602 00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:33,120 Speaker 1: I'm sorry you bumped into me. I'm sorry. Yeah, I 603 00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:35,960 Speaker 1: shouldn't have been in this public space. You're right, I'm 604 00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:39,960 Speaker 1: walking in behind you. I'm sorry. Yeah. Yeah. I have 605 00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:44,160 Speaker 1: a friend who apologizes all right the time, all the time, 606 00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:47,359 Speaker 1: Like you don't have to apologize for talking to me 607 00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:50,040 Speaker 1: or friends, but if you correct them, you feel guilty 608 00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:56,640 Speaker 1: because they feel guilty. Yes, exactly, exactly. Um, there are 609 00:34:56,640 --> 00:34:59,480 Speaker 1: a lot of ways women are conditioned to feel shame 610 00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:02,000 Speaker 1: about our das, which we've talked about right, and I 611 00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:03,520 Speaker 1: think we should also put in here when we talk 612 00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:07,040 Speaker 1: about shame. Well, this was very heteronormative, and obviously there's 613 00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:09,600 Speaker 1: a whole other level for those who are in the 614 00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:13,200 Speaker 1: l g B d q I A plus community, obviously, 615 00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:17,520 Speaker 1: because they're taught shame from very beginning, oftentimes by society, 616 00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:22,000 Speaker 1: oftentimes by media, oftentimes by family. And um, we haven't 617 00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:24,759 Speaker 1: talked about this enough and we know from our buy 618 00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:29,240 Speaker 1: episodes how how much of a toll mentally and physically 619 00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:33,239 Speaker 1: that it takes on those individuals and how how very 620 00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:37,000 Speaker 1: very dangerous erature is and and just to tell people 621 00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:39,200 Speaker 1: get over this is not who you are. You should 622 00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:43,160 Speaker 1: be ashamed. Those types of things are so so so 623 00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:47,440 Speaker 1: dangerous obviously as we see the statistics of all the 624 00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:51,600 Speaker 1: self harm abuse things that are underreported. UM. So we 625 00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:54,600 Speaker 1: just want to acknowledge that though we talk, we're talking 626 00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:57,920 Speaker 1: about a lot of heteronormative ideas in this text, that 627 00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:00,680 Speaker 1: we acknowledge that those for shame can be on a 628 00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:06,560 Speaker 1: whole different level for those who are especially who are intersectional, 629 00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:08,680 Speaker 1: whether it's a person of color who has bought you know, 630 00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:11,880 Speaker 1: all of those levels that there's just added layers of 631 00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:14,040 Speaker 1: what shame and guilt looks like and then trying to 632 00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:17,919 Speaker 1: shed that from your identity as well. Yeah, and and 633 00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:23,360 Speaker 1: we learn those things from such a young age. UM. 634 00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:30,320 Speaker 1: So it's yeah, it's very detrimental and dangerous and harmful 635 00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:34,880 Speaker 1: when it comes to UM dealing with guilt and with Shane, 636 00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:41,640 Speaker 1: there are a lot of a lot of tips out there. UM. 637 00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:47,960 Speaker 1: It really seems to be self reflective, trying to really 638 00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:52,200 Speaker 1: be honest with what you have control over what you 639 00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:58,399 Speaker 1: didn't impact UM and if it is something that you 640 00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:06,840 Speaker 1: is debilitating, than getting help, whether whether that's through therapy 641 00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:09,080 Speaker 1: if you can afford that, if that's an option for you, 642 00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:11,880 Speaker 1: or just finding someone that you trust or a support 643 00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:15,600 Speaker 1: group to kind of talk it out right. And also 644 00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:18,600 Speaker 1: understand that with guilt and shame, which also is correlated 645 00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:21,360 Speaker 1: with depression, that some of this can be chemical. Some 646 00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:24,040 Speaker 1: of this can be a mental health thing that you 647 00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:26,120 Speaker 1: need to take care of yourself. And that's okay too, 648 00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:28,319 Speaker 1: because I think I I struggle with it. When I'm 649 00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:31,080 Speaker 1: in my darkest, I I feel more shame and more guilt, 650 00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:34,879 Speaker 1: and it's overwhelming to be in that darkness and it's 651 00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:38,160 Speaker 1: harder to realize in that moment this is also chemical, 652 00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:41,400 Speaker 1: this is also seasonal, all of those things. So in 653 00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:43,719 Speaker 1: understanding and how to deal with that is to kind 654 00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:46,640 Speaker 1: of listen to your body as well as Yes, Cape 655 00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:49,120 Speaker 1: made sure like if you have people, people groups, if 656 00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:53,080 Speaker 1: you're using medication and that appropriately prescribed to you, do 657 00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:55,600 Speaker 1: that all of those things are really important as well 658 00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:58,840 Speaker 1: to not fall under that heavy, heavy, heavy burden of 659 00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:03,279 Speaker 1: guilt and shame. Yes, um, And I was I was 660 00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:08,000 Speaker 1: trying to think about why I what it is I 661 00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:10,600 Speaker 1: see and why why are we so quick to blame women, 662 00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:15,440 Speaker 1: And I think it's I think we've just been subjugated 663 00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:20,080 Speaker 1: two like abuse and marginalization for so long, but also 664 00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:24,400 Speaker 1: just conditioning to be nice, um and to make everyone 665 00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:28,600 Speaker 1: comfortable and happy. Um. And when that those things don't happen, 666 00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:32,560 Speaker 1: or when we are being the subjects of abuse or 667 00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:35,640 Speaker 1: or whatever, we've looked inward to find a reason why 668 00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:38,640 Speaker 1: it must be something, especially when we witness it among 669 00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:42,680 Speaker 1: a lot of women mate. Um. Yeah, and we've been 670 00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:45,200 Speaker 1: classified as less the men. And that's something I certainly 671 00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:47,160 Speaker 1: struggled with as a kid, because I just had this 672 00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:50,160 Speaker 1: sense of like I am less than and um, we 673 00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:53,160 Speaker 1: are to blame for their wrongdoings and for not meeting 674 00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:56,160 Speaker 1: the impossibly high standards that we place on girls and women. 675 00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:59,760 Speaker 1: And as a society, admitting that things like rape culture 676 00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:03,000 Speaker 1: or fal it's something that we need to to change 677 00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:06,800 Speaker 1: to work on instead of pointing to a woman's outfit choice, Um, 678 00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:09,279 Speaker 1: that requires a lot more work if we admit that 679 00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:12,480 Speaker 1: we have a problem and it's structural and huge and 680 00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:15,440 Speaker 1: we have to change it. Um. And people, as we know, 681 00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:19,319 Speaker 1: are afraid of change, especially those who are benefiting from 682 00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:26,520 Speaker 1: that already. Yes, exactly, so those are our thoughts on shame, blame, guilt. 683 00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:30,120 Speaker 1: Turns out there's a lot of thoughts around that kind 684 00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:33,000 Speaker 1: of stuff, and we would love to hear your thoughts listeners, 685 00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:35,439 Speaker 1: and you can email us those thoughts at Stuff Media, 686 00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:38,160 Speaker 1: mom Stuff at iHeart media dot com. You can find 687 00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:40,560 Speaker 1: us on Instagram at stuff I Never Told You or 688 00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:43,520 Speaker 1: on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast. Thanks as always to 689 00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:48,000 Speaker 1: our suproducer Andrew Howard, and thanks to you for listening 690 00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:50,720 Speaker 1: Stuff I've Never Told You his protection of iHeart Radios 691 00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:53,080 Speaker 1: how stuff works. For more podcasts from my heart Radio 692 00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:55,719 Speaker 1: is the diheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 693 00:39:55,719 --> 00:40:03,279 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows. H