1 00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:04,000 Speaker 1: Why from our nation's camera. All talk here in Washington, 2 00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:08,160 Speaker 1: d C. Turns to President elect Joe Biden's administration. Historically speaking, 3 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:10,600 Speaker 1: the markets have performed better when there is divided government. 4 00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 1: The biggest pressure for physical stimulus is an up taking cases. 5 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:19,640 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Sound on the insiders, the influencers, the inside. Biden 6 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:22,560 Speaker 1: has promised again and again that he will unite the 7 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:26,040 Speaker 1: country's state government's control elections as in the constitution. I 8 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:30,040 Speaker 1: think that we can expect a smooth, thoughtful, methodical transition. 9 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:34,840 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Sound On with Kevin Shirley on Bloomberg 10 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:38,400 Speaker 1: and one oh five point seven f m h D two. 11 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:44,280 Speaker 1: I'm also sitting in for Kevin's really a second COVID 12 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:47,480 Speaker 1: vaccine on the horizon, but when will it be available? 13 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:50,720 Speaker 1: President Elect Joe Biden talks about the economy for the 14 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:55,000 Speaker 1: first time since the election. Those Trump election lawsuits are crumbling, 15 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:58,960 Speaker 1: but the President still refuses to concede, and the Senate 16 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:01,920 Speaker 1: is still up for abs which side has the advantage 17 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 1: in the Georgia runoff. Another sign at the hunt by 18 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:09,040 Speaker 1: scientists and pharmaceutical companies for a COVID nineteen vaccine is 19 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:13,160 Speaker 1: paying off. Moderna said It's COVID nineteen vaccine was ninety 20 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:17,120 Speaker 1: four point five percent effective in a preliminary analysis of 21 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:21,319 Speaker 1: a large late stage clinical trial. Joining me is Max Neeson, 22 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:26,280 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Opinion healthcare and tech columnist. So, Max, this news 23 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:29,880 Speaker 1: of a vaccine comes just a week after a similar 24 00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 1: shot developed by Fiser. Is this all as promising as 25 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:39,080 Speaker 1: it sounds? Um? In many ways it is. Yes, these 26 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:43,399 Speaker 1: are really excellent results, especially for vaccines that have been 27 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:48,520 Speaker 1: developed such so quickly, um, and especially in a sort 28 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 1: of spent up pandemic setting. Seeing percent efficacy is really 29 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:56,800 Speaker 1: quite exciting. Of course, that that inevitably comes with some 30 00:01:57,000 --> 00:02:00,360 Speaker 1: caveats UM, as you know, any medical research has any 31 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 1: clinical trial UM. For example, we don't know whether these 32 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:09,919 Speaker 1: vaccines are capable of preventing either infection outright or transmitting 33 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:13,120 Speaker 1: the virus onwards. We just know that they prevent symptomatic 34 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:16,280 Speaker 1: COVID disease. But the really nice thing about the Maderna 35 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:19,239 Speaker 1: data in particular is that on top of that sort 36 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 1: of headline protection ry, we also got a little bit 37 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:26,480 Speaker 1: more detail, which is that the vaccine was successful in 38 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:30,400 Speaker 1: preventing severe disease as well. That that's something that people 39 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:33,320 Speaker 1: have been curious about and obviously a key a key 40 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:36,160 Speaker 1: thing for any vaccine, and that it appeared to work 41 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 1: in different subgroups that were in the trial, for example 42 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:44,920 Speaker 1: in older adults, which are obviously a really crucial population. So, um, 43 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:47,720 Speaker 1: you know, really really exciting data and and could to 44 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:52,000 Speaker 1: wake up to it this morning. So next does that mean? 45 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:53,959 Speaker 1: From what you said and from what I read, it 46 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:58,800 Speaker 1: sounds like Maderna's vaccine is better in many ways than 47 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:03,519 Speaker 1: a visors. I wouldn't go quite so far as to 48 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:08,280 Speaker 1: say that it comes to the the afficacy data. It does. 49 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:11,359 Speaker 1: It does come ahead marginally, but but those couple of 50 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 1: percent in a clinical trial setting aren't going to be 51 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:18,040 Speaker 1: the big difference. Where there is a distinction is in 52 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:23,040 Speaker 1: terms of distribution. How the Fiser bio intech vaccine is 53 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 1: a little bit more finicky, requires storage at colder temperatures, 54 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:30,800 Speaker 1: whereas the Madurana vaccine um lasts longer in a refrigerator. 55 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:34,320 Speaker 1: That will make distribution a little bit easier. So if 56 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 1: there is a really a big distinction that can be 57 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 1: drawn at this point, I would say that's it, rather 58 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 1: than any difference in the data so far, at least 59 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 1: until we get a lot more detail. So how much 60 00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 1: more testing do they have to do before they can 61 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 1: start manufacturing large quantities of these The nice thing is 62 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 1: that they've already started manufacturing large quantities, And that was 63 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 1: a deliberate choice, um because usually if if you wait 64 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:06,240 Speaker 1: to manufacture until you have really good confirmatory data. But 65 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:08,800 Speaker 1: but that's something that doesn't quite work in a pandemic 66 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:12,120 Speaker 1: um where you really need as many doses as quickly 67 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 1: as possible. So there are already existing doses, but it 68 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 1: will take some time to to scale up to to 69 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:22,400 Speaker 1: really the massive amounts will need to vaccinate the US 70 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 1: or world, the world as a whole. So um not 71 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:29,080 Speaker 1: not not. I don't think testing is really a barrier here. 72 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:31,720 Speaker 1: I think that we can probably expect at least an 73 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:35,599 Speaker 1: emergency regulatory approval. It just will take some more time 74 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:38,840 Speaker 1: just to get all of that capacity online and and 75 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 1: really start manufacturing these vaccines at scale. Are we talking 76 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:47,920 Speaker 1: about months or weeks? Uh? It depends on what exactly 77 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 1: you mean. If you're talking about having enough vaccine to 78 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:55,480 Speaker 1: vaccinate of the population to a point where you get 79 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:59,280 Speaker 1: to vaccine induced herd immunity, UM, then we are in 80 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:02,680 Speaker 1: fact talking months um. But will be there will be 81 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:06,200 Speaker 1: you know, tens of millions of doses available this year 82 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 1: for high risk populations, and that will be a really 83 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:14,360 Speaker 1: nice start, although not something that's going to significantly alter 84 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:18,200 Speaker 1: the trajectory of the pandemic, given the point that we 85 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:22,080 Speaker 1: are right now still still some time before you actually 86 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:25,600 Speaker 1: get that formal approval and more time before it's rolled 87 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 1: out and actually begins to having effects because on top 88 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:31,360 Speaker 1: of you know, the need to actually distribute it and 89 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:34,960 Speaker 1: start injecting people. Both are two dose shots that are 90 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 1: given about them a little bit less than a month apart, 91 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:39,320 Speaker 1: so you have to wait for a little bit until 92 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:42,720 Speaker 1: you actually are protected. So, um, this next period is 93 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:45,720 Speaker 1: going to be tough from a virus perspective, even with 94 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:49,039 Speaker 1: the really good news on these vaccines. So what I've 95 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:52,920 Speaker 1: been wondering is how how is it determined, like which 96 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:56,159 Speaker 1: of the vaccines you can get, whether you can get 97 00:05:56,400 --> 00:05:59,480 Speaker 1: if the MODERNA or the FISER, if they're both at 98 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:04,440 Speaker 1: there the market, is there going to be a choice. Um, 99 00:06:04,839 --> 00:06:07,760 Speaker 1: that's something that that very much needs to be determined. 100 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:12,240 Speaker 1: And my expectation is that for the most part, people 101 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:15,839 Speaker 1: will will get get you know, take what they can get. 102 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 1: In terms of the vaccine, just because supplies are going 103 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:22,680 Speaker 1: to be so constrained that it's going to be really 104 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:25,719 Speaker 1: difficult for people to pick and choose. Um. The thing 105 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:28,039 Speaker 1: that would be nice to see in the long run 106 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:31,000 Speaker 1: is to begin to try to look to have some 107 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 1: comparison trials to get some more solid data about the 108 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:39,799 Speaker 1: difference between these two vaccines and any others that come along, 109 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:42,760 Speaker 1: so you can really start to narrow down on which 110 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:45,400 Speaker 1: really is the best and which is best suited for 111 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:48,520 Speaker 1: different populations. If there is going to be a division 112 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 1: and who gets what it may have more to do 113 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 1: with at this point before we get more data um 114 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:59,440 Speaker 1: the storage requirements then it does, and any actual feature 115 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:01,640 Speaker 1: of the vACC scene, because we don't have that much 116 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:04,680 Speaker 1: differentiate that over that point. But you will see Visor's 117 00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:09,120 Speaker 1: vaccine used potentially more in institutional settings and Madernas used 118 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:11,800 Speaker 1: maybe um for example, in rural settings that don't have 119 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 1: those fancy freezers. I think that may be the difference 120 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:19,240 Speaker 1: in the early running. So speaking about the other vaccines 121 00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 1: that are still in development, what does this mean for 122 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 1: those vaccines? So good and bad on one hand, and 123 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:31,920 Speaker 1: having two different vaccines succeed and succeeds so well, UM 124 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 1: should make everybody relatively optimistic about the potential for for 125 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:40,800 Speaker 1: others because all of the major vaccines and development are 126 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 1: targeting the same spike protein, the same they're attempting to 127 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:49,120 Speaker 1: develop immune respots against the same feature of the coronavirus, 128 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:52,400 Speaker 1: so they are they would are more likely to succeed 129 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:55,120 Speaker 1: given that these have On the other hand, there is 130 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 1: some potential that it will become harder to test these 131 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 1: vaccines to get good data because people might be less 132 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:05,840 Speaker 1: inclined to join a placebo controlled trial UM if they 133 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 1: have an opportunity to get a vaccine they know works, 134 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:12,800 Speaker 1: if not immediately, if you're most of the population at 135 00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 1: least in a relatively visible point in the future, I'm 136 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 1: hoping that's not the case, because we'll need UM just 137 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:22,920 Speaker 1: about all of the above to get the whole world vaccinated. 138 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:25,560 Speaker 1: And until we really do that and we have a 139 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 1: truly global effort enough supply for everybody, we're not truly 140 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:33,320 Speaker 1: going to have the pandemic contained just about a minute 141 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:35,679 Speaker 1: and a half year max. But does it seem to 142 00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:40,079 Speaker 1: you as if there's less negative talk recently about the 143 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:43,000 Speaker 1: vaccine and whether or not people will take it seems 144 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:47,240 Speaker 1: to be more positive. Yeah, I do think that's the case, 145 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:50,439 Speaker 1: and I'm very hopeful that that will hold up. Um. 146 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:53,480 Speaker 1: You know, the fact that these vaccines came in looking 147 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 1: so very effective, um and above expectations certainly mine, I 148 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:03,959 Speaker 1: think will make people more inclined to get them if 149 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 1: they feel that they have a really good chance of 150 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:09,600 Speaker 1: getting a protective effect. We'll see, Um. You know, we're 151 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 1: still at the stage where where it's theoretical as opposed 152 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:15,280 Speaker 1: to people being faced with the decision to actually go 153 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:19,320 Speaker 1: and get vaccinated. But I'm hopeful that these positive at 154 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:23,600 Speaker 1: year results will make the roll out easier and reduce hesitancy. 155 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 1: Thanks so much, Max, I always appreciate hearing from you 156 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 1: and your analysis. That's Bloomberg Opinion Check and science calumnist 157 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 1: Max Neeson Coming up next on sound On, We're going 158 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:41,720 Speaker 1: to be talking about all those many many election lawsuits 159 00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:45,880 Speaker 1: across the country. President Trump still refusing to concede the election, 160 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:50,120 Speaker 1: and he's looking at those lawsuits as a way out. Well, 161 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 1: we'll be talking to an expert about whether there really 162 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:56,839 Speaker 1: is any way out right now by the lawsuits or 163 00:09:56,960 --> 00:10:00,439 Speaker 1: even by the election recount that's going on. In Georgia. 164 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:03,679 Speaker 1: I'm June Grasso sitting in for Kevin sur Really, you're 165 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 1: listening to Bloomberg. You're listening to Bloomberg. Sound On with 166 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:42,040 Speaker 1: Kevin Surley on Bloomberg and one oh five point seven 167 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:46,480 Speaker 1: f m H D two. I'm June Grasso sitting in 168 00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:49,880 Speaker 1: for Kevin's So really this headline crossing the Bloomberg terminal. 169 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:53,199 Speaker 1: Airbnb is filing for an I p O seeking to 170 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:57,120 Speaker 1: list on the nasdack under a b n B. Again, 171 00:10:57,200 --> 00:11:01,800 Speaker 1: that's Airbnb filing for an I p H. It's been 172 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:05,160 Speaker 1: one legal setback after another in President Trump's attempt to 173 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:09,960 Speaker 1: flick the election results through lawsuits which claimed massive voter 174 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:14,520 Speaker 1: fraud and election regularities without any evidence. Many of the 175 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:17,319 Speaker 1: complaints have been tossed by the courts or dropped, and 176 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 1: no votes have been validated. Here's former Trump National security 177 00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:25,000 Speaker 1: advisor John Bolton on ABC's This Week, Where are their 178 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:28,760 Speaker 1: silver dollars? Where is the evidence? I think as every 179 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:32,040 Speaker 1: day goes by, it's clear and clear there isn't any evidence. 180 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:36,800 Speaker 1: On Friday, nine cases in Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Arizona were 181 00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:40,880 Speaker 1: either dismissed or dropped. This morning, lawsuits in Georgia, Wisconsin, Michigan, 182 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:44,680 Speaker 1: and Pennsylvania were dropped, and yesterday the Trump campaign scrapped 183 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:47,760 Speaker 1: a major part of its federal lawsuit challenging the election 184 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:52,080 Speaker 1: results in Pennsylvania. Joining me is Kermit Roosevelt, a professor 185 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:55,280 Speaker 1: at the University of Pennsylvania Carry Law School. Thanks so 186 00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:59,560 Speaker 1: much for joining us, professor, Thanks for having me. I've 187 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:04,000 Speaker 1: been skiing since the lawsuits have been filed whether there's 188 00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:08,200 Speaker 1: any kind of strategy that people see. Do you see 189 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:12,000 Speaker 1: any strategy in in the lawsuits that have been filed 190 00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:16,120 Speaker 1: coming from the Trump campaign, Well, there are a couple 191 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:19,439 Speaker 1: of possible strategies. Um. Neither of them or none of 192 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 1: them really relies on the lawsuit to actually change the 193 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:24,520 Speaker 1: outcome of the election. So one of the things that 194 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:27,600 Speaker 1: they could have been trying to do was to get 195 00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:31,079 Speaker 1: a state court to block state officials from certifying the 196 00:12:31,160 --> 00:12:33,880 Speaker 1: results of the election, in which case the state legislature 197 00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:37,760 Speaker 1: could come in and certify its own slate of electors. UM. 198 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:40,080 Speaker 1: But since the lawsuits don't really seem to be getting 199 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:41,960 Speaker 1: any traction with the courts, that's not going to work. 200 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:46,800 Speaker 1: So what remains is really the possibility that they're using 201 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:51,120 Speaker 1: this as a way of keeping the Republicans energized for 202 00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:54,640 Speaker 1: the Georgia runoff, or maybe that they're using it just 203 00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 1: to make Trump feel better and to maintain support with 204 00:12:58,679 --> 00:13:00,960 Speaker 1: his his voter so they won't think of him as 205 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:03,439 Speaker 1: a loser, or possibly really that they're just doing this 206 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:06,760 Speaker 1: for fundraising. But at this point it really doesn't look 207 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 1: to me like it's aimed at the election outcome. Are 208 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:14,720 Speaker 1: most of the cases being dismissed because they just haven't 209 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:18,479 Speaker 1: come up with any evidence that the courts can consider 210 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 1: any valid evidence to prove that there was any kind 211 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:26,360 Speaker 1: of fraud. Yeah, I think in most cases, they came 212 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:29,800 Speaker 1: in with these very broad, very sweeping allegations of fraud, 213 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:32,560 Speaker 1: you know, saying this is an outrage and democracy has 214 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:35,559 Speaker 1: been subverted and this terrible thing has been done, and 215 00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:39,160 Speaker 1: then they didn't really have any evidence. And the lawyers, 216 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:41,880 Speaker 1: you know, being officers of the court and subject to 217 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:46,080 Speaker 1: discipline if they advance a position in bad faith. If 218 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:48,000 Speaker 1: you look at what the lawyers actually said in court, 219 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:51,599 Speaker 1: they very often said, we're not alleging fraud. Um, you know, 220 00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:55,120 Speaker 1: we have some technical issue that maybe we think something 221 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:57,600 Speaker 1: went wrong with a small number of ballots, and those 222 00:13:57,760 --> 00:14:02,320 Speaker 1: those lawsuits just amount to nothing because, um, with such 223 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:04,480 Speaker 1: a small number of ballots, there's no chance of changing 224 00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:06,959 Speaker 1: the outcome. This election was really not very close, it 225 00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:11,319 Speaker 1: turns out. And that's something I've been looking at these lawsuits, 226 00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:14,360 Speaker 1: the different lawsuits, and trying to see if any of 227 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:18,920 Speaker 1: them has the capacity to turn a state in Trump's favor. 228 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:21,960 Speaker 1: For example, in Arizona, at it hearing, it was discovered 229 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:26,360 Speaker 1: that one challenge only involved a d ballots. Are there 230 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 1: any Are there any lawsuits that you see that have 231 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:34,120 Speaker 1: the ability to turn a state. The only way that 232 00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:36,880 Speaker 1: I think they could turn a state is by persuading 233 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:40,920 Speaker 1: the court that there was some sort of large, unquantifiable fraud. 234 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:43,800 Speaker 1: So everything that you can quantify where they're like, if 235 00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:47,520 Speaker 1: this many ballots, they don't hit the margin. So I 236 00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:50,960 Speaker 1: think the only possible chance that they had was to 237 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:53,080 Speaker 1: convince a court there's a large amount of fraud and 238 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:57,360 Speaker 1: the election results have to be set aside. And that 239 00:14:57,560 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 1: was where the Republican legislatures could maybe come in and 240 00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:04,320 Speaker 1: help them. And as as far as you know, convincing 241 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:07,440 Speaker 1: the courts, a lot of what they seem to be charging, 242 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:10,360 Speaker 1: or they have been charging, is that you know, their 243 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:14,640 Speaker 1: election observers weren't given a fair access to watching the 244 00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:17,720 Speaker 1: ballots being counted, and this has been disproven time and 245 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:22,160 Speaker 1: time again. And Trump's lawyers narrowed their case in Pennsylvania 246 00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:27,200 Speaker 1: on Sunday and they abandoned that argument. What's left in 247 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:31,680 Speaker 1: that case. What's left in that case is basically an 248 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:36,479 Speaker 1: argument about ballot suring. So in some counties in Philadelphia 249 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:39,480 Speaker 1: in Pennsylvania, according to the complaint, and they tended to 250 00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 1: be Democratic counties, Democratic leaning counties, voters who made a 251 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:46,600 Speaker 1: mistake with their mail in ballot were told that and 252 00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:49,920 Speaker 1: given an opportunity to fix it. And in some Republican 253 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:53,280 Speaker 1: leaning counties they say they weren't um. Now, again, this 254 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:56,640 Speaker 1: is a small and probably quantifiable number of ballots that 255 00:15:56,680 --> 00:15:59,840 Speaker 1: wouldn't affect the margin. So their only hope with this 256 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:03,600 Speaker 1: really is to say it's an equal protection violation to 257 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:06,360 Speaker 1: have these different standards or different approaches to vote it 258 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:10,360 Speaker 1: in different counties. And that's actually an argument that worked 259 00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:13,760 Speaker 1: in Bush Bygore, but interestingly it was just rejected by 260 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:16,720 Speaker 1: the Third Circuit Um. So it looks as though that 261 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 1: argument is not going to go anywhere in Pennsylvania. President 262 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 1: Trump has repeatedly said that this is going to be 263 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:29,320 Speaker 1: decided by the Supreme Court and has implied that one 264 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:31,880 Speaker 1: of these cases is going to the Supreme Court. Do 265 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:34,720 Speaker 1: you see any case that might be headed to the 266 00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:39,200 Speaker 1: Supreme Court right now? Well, you know, once they get 267 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:41,080 Speaker 1: to a state supreme court or a federal court of 268 00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:44,480 Speaker 1: appeals and lose, which seems to be what's happening, they 269 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:47,440 Speaker 1: can seek Supreme Court review. But I think it's very 270 00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:50,680 Speaker 1: unlikely that the Supreme Court will take the case if 271 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:54,000 Speaker 1: Trump continues to lose, because that would really be injecting 272 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:58,960 Speaker 1: itself needlessly into the election dispute. If Trump were winning 273 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:02,360 Speaker 1: these cases, and the rationale for Supreme Court involvement would 274 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:05,160 Speaker 1: be much greater, But if the courts are just dismissing 275 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:06,919 Speaker 1: them as baseless, I don't I don't see a need 276 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:08,560 Speaker 1: for the Supreme Court to get involved, and I would 277 00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:12,600 Speaker 1: assume that it wouldn't want to. Now. The other day, 278 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:15,960 Speaker 1: President Trump said that Rudy Giuliani was going to be 279 00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:20,400 Speaker 1: leading the legal effort as far as the election lawsuits 280 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 1: are concerned, and Rudy Giuliani not known as an election 281 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:27,000 Speaker 1: lawyer at all. What does it say to you that 282 00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:30,320 Speaker 1: he's going to lead the effort instead of some well 283 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:36,639 Speaker 1: known election lawyer. It's another testament to the weakness of 284 00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:39,439 Speaker 1: the claims, I think, because if you had good claims, 285 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:42,600 Speaker 1: this is you know, regardless of your ideological views. And 286 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:45,600 Speaker 1: there's certainly some people who would want this to support Trump. 287 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:50,440 Speaker 1: But you know, people want a high profile, exciting, meritorious case. 288 00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:53,600 Speaker 1: That's the kind of case that really adds to your reputation. 289 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:56,119 Speaker 1: So the fact that you're not having lawyers with the 290 00:17:56,200 --> 00:18:00,240 Speaker 1: national profile signing onto this suggests I think that will 291 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:02,680 Speaker 1: I think it would hurt them to be associated with it, 292 00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:05,600 Speaker 1: and that suggests that they think these suits are frivolous. 293 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:09,760 Speaker 1: If you look at the Pennsylvania litigation. Actually, Um, their 294 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:13,240 Speaker 1: their representation has been paired down to a Philadelphia divorce 295 00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:16,480 Speaker 1: attorney who's on the filings. UM. And that's what I 296 00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:20,440 Speaker 1: was going to ask you, because I understand that lawyers 297 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:24,640 Speaker 1: with Porter Wright, Morris and Arthur submitted a filing saying 298 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:27,919 Speaker 1: they were withdrawing as council in the Pennsylvania case. Did 299 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:32,320 Speaker 1: they say why they're withdrawing. They didn't say. They didn't say. 300 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:36,719 Speaker 1: It's it's hard to tell. UM. Probably either they had 301 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:39,880 Speaker 1: some sort of disagreement with the client about the litigation strategy, 302 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:43,400 Speaker 1: or they just decided that this was not a good 303 00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:48,560 Speaker 1: case for them to be associated with. Well, uh, President 304 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:51,440 Speaker 1: Trump is still promising that there's going to be one 305 00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:55,480 Speaker 1: big lawsuit, and I assume that that's just impossible in 306 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:58,720 Speaker 1: our country, where you know, it's litigated state by state 307 00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 1: as far as elections are con sarned. Well, yes, so 308 00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:05,080 Speaker 1: it does. It would have to be done state by state. 309 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:10,440 Speaker 1: It's becoming increasingly clear I think that there's there's not 310 00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:15,520 Speaker 1: going to be any significant legal decision, um, you know, 311 00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:19,320 Speaker 1: which leads us with the situation where the Trump campaign 312 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:22,119 Speaker 1: has been just baselessly attacking the integrity of the United 313 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:28,320 Speaker 1: States democratic process, which is in itself terrible. Thank you 314 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:32,800 Speaker 1: so much for joining us. Professor that's Professor Kermit Roosevelt 315 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:36,560 Speaker 1: and he's a professor at the University of Pennsylvania Carry 316 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:40,280 Speaker 1: School of Law. Coming up next on SOUNDOM, we're going 317 00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:44,440 Speaker 1: to be talking about Joe Biden's statements today, his address 318 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:49,120 Speaker 1: about the economy, his first since becoming president elect. We'll 319 00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:51,560 Speaker 1: talk about what he said and how difficult it will 320 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:54,720 Speaker 1: be to accomplish some of that. I'm June grass sitting 321 00:19:54,760 --> 00:20:05,840 Speaker 1: in for Kevin Cirella. You're listening to Bloomberg live from 322 00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:08,399 Speaker 1: our nation's camera. All Talk here in Washington, d C. 323 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:12,359 Speaker 1: Turns to President elect Joe Biden's administration. Historically speaking, the 324 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:14,920 Speaker 1: markets that performed better when there is divided government. The 325 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:18,680 Speaker 1: biggest pressure for physical stimulus is an up taking cases. 326 00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:23,800 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Sound on, the insiders, the influencers, the inside. Biden 327 00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:26,639 Speaker 1: has promised again and again that he will unite the 328 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:30,159 Speaker 1: country's state government's control elections as in the constitution. I 329 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:34,159 Speaker 1: think that we can expect a smooth, thoughtful, methodical transition. 330 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:38,959 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Sound On with Kevin Shirley on Bloomberg 331 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:42,560 Speaker 1: and one oh five point seven f m h D two. 332 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:47,480 Speaker 1: I'm June Grosso sitting in for Kevin Sorelli. President Elect 333 00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:50,000 Speaker 1: Joe Biden talks about the economy for the first time 334 00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:54,480 Speaker 1: since the election. President Trump still refuses to concede, hampering 335 00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:57,920 Speaker 1: the transition, and the Senate is still up for grabs 336 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:01,240 Speaker 1: which side has the advantage in the Georgia runoff. In 337 00:21:01,359 --> 00:21:04,720 Speaker 1: his first remarks on the economy since being elected President, like, 338 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:08,680 Speaker 1: Joe Biden said today that containing the coronavirus pandemic is 339 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:11,720 Speaker 1: a key to the nation's economic recovery, and he called 340 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:16,879 Speaker 1: for cooperation between business and government. Joining me are two guests. 341 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:21,320 Speaker 1: Lester Mounston, principal at government relations firms b GR Group. 342 00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:24,879 Speaker 1: He also serves as adjunct faculty at Johns Hopkins University, 343 00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 1: and Lincoln Mitchell, writer and political analyst. He teaches political 344 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:33,080 Speaker 1: science at Columbia University. So let's d I'll start with you. 345 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:37,800 Speaker 1: We heard the Biden administration's economic plan, which is based 346 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:41,680 Speaker 1: on the Bill Back Better proposals offered during the campaign. 347 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:48,479 Speaker 1: Did you hear anything new in Biden's talk today? Uh? 348 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:51,760 Speaker 1: Not necessarily. You know, he's he's going to be dealing 349 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:57,040 Speaker 1: with some very difficult political situations. I think even regardless 350 00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:00,920 Speaker 1: of who wins the seats and Georgia, I think even 351 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:03,240 Speaker 1: if Democrats win both of those seats, you're still going 352 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:07,000 Speaker 1: to have a tough time selling his agenda to Congress. 353 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:10,440 Speaker 1: It's just going to be very close. Uh. He needs 354 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:12,680 Speaker 1: he needs to be in the middle and try to 355 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:16,440 Speaker 1: govern from the middle. The bigger plans who's been talking 356 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:21,679 Speaker 1: about are just not going to be doable in this environment. Lincoln, 357 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:25,480 Speaker 1: what's your take I believe that the Billback Better campaign 358 00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:28,880 Speaker 1: included something like two trillion dollars in spending on clean 359 00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:33,080 Speaker 1: energy and infrastructure. Will Biden be able to get those 360 00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:36,440 Speaker 1: kinds of proposals through well, I hope. I don't disappoint 361 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:38,440 Speaker 1: you if I say that I agree with my colleague 362 00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:41,320 Speaker 1: in Washington. No, that's fun. You're allowed to agree. We 363 00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:45,159 Speaker 1: lacked agreement. Actually, one way to think about this is 364 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:47,879 Speaker 1: that if you know, and I think this is unlikely, 365 00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:50,399 Speaker 1: but if the Democrats win both of these seats in Georgia, 366 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:54,080 Speaker 1: then any piece of legislation that Joe Biden wants to pass, 367 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:56,440 Speaker 1: I'm actually less worried about the House. At the House 368 00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:58,720 Speaker 1: part of me because I think Nancy Pelosi can deliver 369 00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:00,359 Speaker 1: the votes for for what needs to we needs to 370 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:02,440 Speaker 1: be done there if by that you work together. But 371 00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:05,040 Speaker 1: in the Senate, you've got to get Joe Manchined, Dian 372 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:07,679 Speaker 1: fin Stein, John Tester, in other words, the most conservative 373 00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:10,640 Speaker 1: Democrats on board to pass anything. And that's the best 374 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:13,760 Speaker 1: case scenario. The worst case scenario for Biden is that 375 00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:17,080 Speaker 1: you're going to need you know, one or two Republicans, 376 00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:18,399 Speaker 1: which means I don't know who that would be. But 377 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:21,040 Speaker 1: Lisa Marikowski, but Romney, it's not clear to me, Rob 378 00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:24,639 Speaker 1: Portman who that might be. But he has to he 379 00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:27,280 Speaker 1: can only govern from the center here. The one thing 380 00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:30,080 Speaker 1: I would add is that a variable that we don't 381 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:32,919 Speaker 1: know is what is his popularity when he takes over 382 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:36,440 Speaker 1: in January. If he's at six, he is a very 383 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:40,800 Speaker 1: different stronger ability to persuade and lean on senators than 384 00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:43,360 Speaker 1: if he's in you know, fifty or forty eight, which 385 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:45,640 Speaker 1: is you know about his highest trump I ever got. 386 00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:48,040 Speaker 1: So that's why that's driving a lot of his strategy 387 00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:51,240 Speaker 1: at the moment. So, Lester, do you think that will 388 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:55,480 Speaker 1: be enough his mandate from the people, especially if the 389 00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:59,320 Speaker 1: Democrats don't win one at least of those two seats 390 00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:01,359 Speaker 1: and they have that many more people in the Senate 391 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:05,920 Speaker 1: to try to to get on their side. Well, the 392 00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:10,399 Speaker 1: other you know, the I agree with my friend, my 393 00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:13,800 Speaker 1: non belt why friend, I think it's the president has 394 00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:17,560 Speaker 1: a really really hard lived here. For another reason, which 395 00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:21,760 Speaker 1: is it appears he's not running for re election. There 396 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:24,800 Speaker 1: was there was talk during the campaign that he was 397 00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:26,359 Speaker 1: a one he if he won, he would be a 398 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:29,119 Speaker 1: one term president. There's his age. He will be the 399 00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:34,520 Speaker 1: oldest president we've ever had on inauguration day. Um, you know, 400 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:39,800 Speaker 1: so you know Washington, doesn't You don't have friends in 401 00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:42,040 Speaker 1: Washington if you want to a friend to get a dog. 402 00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:45,840 Speaker 1: People are very hard eyed about what's going on politically, 403 00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:49,040 Speaker 1: and if the president isn't running for re election, that 404 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:51,560 Speaker 1: means he's he's not going to be He can't use 405 00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:55,439 Speaker 1: his base to help other politicians. The reason President Trump 406 00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:58,600 Speaker 1: has a lot of influence with Republicans is because they 407 00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:03,600 Speaker 1: respect or fear his base. President Bone is not going 408 00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:06,160 Speaker 1: to have that phenomenon, So he's going to be reliant 409 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:10,680 Speaker 1: on UH Speaker Pelosi getting her folks in order, or 410 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 1: cutting deals with Mitch McConnell. Neither one of those really 411 00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:17,879 Speaker 1: kind of leads you to a place where he's going 412 00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:21,280 Speaker 1: to be able to do big things, particularly domestically. Two 413 00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:24,320 Speaker 1: trillion dollars on any program is probably out of the question. 414 00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:28,040 Speaker 1: President Blon is going to have more flexibility internationally where 415 00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:31,320 Speaker 1: he can act without the direct blessing of Congress, and 416 00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:34,760 Speaker 1: of course, on coronavirus, where he probably does have a 417 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:38,159 Speaker 1: mandate to take a tougher approach than this administration is 418 00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:40,440 Speaker 1: where he could make a difference domestically, but the larger 419 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:43,800 Speaker 1: social programs I think are probably off the table. Lincoln 420 00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:47,480 Speaker 1: has he said that he's not going around again. I 421 00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:49,840 Speaker 1: thought that during the you know, the campaign he said 422 00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:52,760 Speaker 1: that he wouldn't say that. Well, he has not formally 423 00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:55,560 Speaker 1: said that. And this is a tough situation for because 424 00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:58,320 Speaker 1: he would be I believe eighty two when he would 425 00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:02,000 Speaker 1: begin a hypothetical second term. Eighty two is quite old, 426 00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:03,800 Speaker 1: even for someone like Biden, who I think is in 427 00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:05,840 Speaker 1: relatively good shape for for a man of his age. 428 00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:09,280 Speaker 1: But there's another piece of this as well. What you know, 429 00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:11,560 Speaker 1: the problem with not running or having people think you're 430 00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:13,840 Speaker 1: not running is essentially you're a lame duck from day one, 431 00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:16,240 Speaker 1: and it's very hard to govern as a lame duck. 432 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:19,440 Speaker 1: But there's another problem as well, which is, you know, 433 00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:22,760 Speaker 1: his running mate Kamala Harris. On the one hand, he 434 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:25,240 Speaker 1: presented her I think to the Democratic voters and to 435 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:27,320 Speaker 1: the elector, it had you know, this is a bridge 436 00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:29,040 Speaker 1: to a new kind of a Democratic party. This is 437 00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:32,000 Speaker 1: a new faith of the Democratic Party, and Senator Harris 438 00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:34,879 Speaker 1: played that role very well in the election. I think 439 00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:38,560 Speaker 1: she was ultimate asset to the ticket. However, there is 440 00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:41,560 Speaker 1: a cadre of Democratic senators. You know, pretty much every 441 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:43,399 Speaker 1: senator gets up in the morning, it looks himself on 442 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:45,600 Speaker 1: the maryor and says, I'm looking at a president, right, 443 00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:48,320 Speaker 1: and in this case, let's just focus on the Democratic side. 444 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:50,040 Speaker 1: At the aisle, right, there's a lot of people there 445 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:53,680 Speaker 1: that as soon if they think Biden is going to 446 00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:56,480 Speaker 1: run for a second term, there is an incentive to 447 00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:59,679 Speaker 1: work with Biden during his first term to make him 448 00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:03,199 Speaker 1: look good too, so that the Democrats can succeed at 449 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:07,720 Speaker 1: the polls in which would be his re election year. 450 00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:10,920 Speaker 1: But as soon as that changes, then there's a fear 451 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:14,080 Speaker 1: he's been Kamala Harris essentially, if you're another Democratic, if 452 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:17,440 Speaker 1: you're Democratics center at that point walks into a nomination 453 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:20,000 Speaker 1: that she didn't earn. And the only way you can 454 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:24,119 Speaker 1: stop at Harrison doing that has to be going at 455 00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:25,879 Speaker 1: the government a little bit, but going at the president 456 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:27,920 Speaker 1: a little bit, because the President is giving Harris covernment. 457 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:30,520 Speaker 1: They're a team. So as soon as it the perception 458 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:33,399 Speaker 1: is that Biden isn't running for a second term, you 459 00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:36,280 Speaker 1: incentivize all those senators who don't want to look around 460 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:38,119 Speaker 1: and say, if I don't go for it now it 461 00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:40,600 Speaker 1: might be an eight year wait. So he really is 462 00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:44,840 Speaker 1: a country. This was something that you know, Democrats may 463 00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:46,440 Speaker 1: have thought a little bit about, but there was so 464 00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:48,199 Speaker 1: much going on in the primary and this is such 465 00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:50,000 Speaker 1: a kind of a second level question, but it is 466 00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:52,879 Speaker 1: a real handicap as soon as that perception that he's 467 00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:55,000 Speaker 1: not running for a second term. He's a lame duck, 468 00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:57,720 Speaker 1: and lame ducks don't get things done. And watch it, Lester, 469 00:27:57,880 --> 00:27:59,240 Speaker 1: let me ask you this about it a minute and 470 00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:03,000 Speaker 1: a half here. So does that mean that every president 471 00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:06,600 Speaker 1: in their second term doesn't get anything done? And certainly 472 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,800 Speaker 1: every vice president seems to have a deserved or undeserved 473 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:15,120 Speaker 1: path to the presidency. I think that's that's largely true, 474 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:18,439 Speaker 1: particularly when when applied to domestic politics. You know, President 475 00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:23,200 Speaker 1: Obama had a lot of achievements is legislatively domestically his 476 00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:27,399 Speaker 1: first two years in two thousand, then he lost the 477 00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:29,720 Speaker 1: House to the Republicans and four years later he lost 478 00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:31,879 Speaker 1: the Senate to the Republicans. He didn't have a lot 479 00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:34,960 Speaker 1: of domestic achievements. I think possibly you know, raising taxes 480 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:39,640 Speaker 1: which Democrats using achievement, uh happened during that time. But 481 00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:42,160 Speaker 1: otherwise not a lot. So this this is not a 482 00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:47,240 Speaker 1: new phenomenon. Congress is meant. Congress and the President are 483 00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:51,120 Speaker 1: not designed to work together. They're designed to represent different interests, 484 00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:54,920 Speaker 1: and they only come together when it appears that they've 485 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:57,760 Speaker 1: both got similar mandates from the American people. And that's 486 00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:00,480 Speaker 1: just that's just not going to be the case on 487 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:03,040 Speaker 1: January twenty, or at least not for very long, or 488 00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:08,040 Speaker 1: at least not for issues beyond the coronavirus pandemic. All Right, 489 00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:10,640 Speaker 1: you're both going to stay with me. Coming up on 490 00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:13,720 Speaker 1: sound On, we're going to be talking about the president 491 00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:17,120 Speaker 1: still refusing to concede the election and how that's hampering 492 00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:42,720 Speaker 1: the transition. You're listening to Bloomberg. You're listening to Bloomberg. 493 00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:46,920 Speaker 1: Sound On with Kevin Currel on Bloomberg and one oh 494 00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:50,520 Speaker 1: five point seven f m h D two. I'm Dren 495 00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:53,640 Speaker 1: Bronso sitting in for Kevin Cirelli. Well, it's been one 496 00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:57,480 Speaker 1: setback after another and President Trump attempt to flip the 497 00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:02,840 Speaker 1: election results through lawsuits or through recounts. He claimed massive 498 00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:06,160 Speaker 1: voter fraud and election of regularities without any evidence, and 499 00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:11,160 Speaker 1: still refusing to concede the election. This afternoon in Delaware. 500 00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:15,240 Speaker 1: President elect Joe Biden, meeting virtually with industry and labor leaders, 501 00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:19,040 Speaker 1: said he's still hoping President Trump comes around in response 502 00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:23,200 Speaker 1: to a question from ABC Senior Congressional correspondent Mary Bruce 503 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:26,920 Speaker 1: about how he can possibly be prepared without briefings. Here's 504 00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:29,760 Speaker 1: their exchange. It doesn't appear that the President is going 505 00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:33,320 Speaker 1: to come around anytime soon and admit defeat. So what 506 00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:35,720 Speaker 1: are you going to do? What options do you have 507 00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:37,800 Speaker 1: to try and ensure that you are ready to go 508 00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:42,959 Speaker 1: on day one? Do with every individual organization in the country, 509 00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:47,040 Speaker 1: from business to labor, Republicans and Democrats, to try to 510 00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:52,240 Speaker 1: pull together a serious and consistent plan so we're ready 511 00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:56,640 Speaker 1: on day one. I've been talking to Lincoln Mitchell, writer 512 00:30:56,760 --> 00:31:00,200 Speaker 1: and political analyst, teaches political science at Columbia Universe City 513 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:04,480 Speaker 1: and Lester monson principle of Government relations firms b GR Group. 514 00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:09,200 Speaker 1: He also serves his adjunct faculty at Johns Hopkins University. Lester, 515 00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:13,080 Speaker 1: sometimes it seems as if the president is hinting that 516 00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:16,240 Speaker 1: he knows he's lost, but then he seems to take 517 00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:20,320 Speaker 1: it back in a tweet. What what's the situation? Does 518 00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:24,560 Speaker 1: he know? I think? I think we have a president 519 00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:27,520 Speaker 1: who is a master of staying in the news and 520 00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:30,320 Speaker 1: getting people to pay attention to him, and that is 521 00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:32,560 Speaker 1: exactly what he's doing. We all know how this is 522 00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:35,520 Speaker 1: going to end up with him as the former president 523 00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:40,800 Speaker 1: and Joe Biden as the president on January. In the meantime, 524 00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:42,719 Speaker 1: I think President Trump is going to try to make 525 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:45,640 Speaker 1: as much news as he can, and if it's doing 526 00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:49,320 Speaker 1: this crazy dance about whether he really won the election 527 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:52,719 Speaker 1: or not and obviously he lost it. Uh, he's going 528 00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:55,280 Speaker 1: to do that. And so everyone's paying attention to his tweets, 529 00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:58,760 Speaker 1: they're trying to parse them down to, you know, different parts. 530 00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:00,560 Speaker 1: What do they mean? What do they that mean? Is 531 00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:02,240 Speaker 1: it going to reverse himselves to a little bit of 532 00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:06,720 Speaker 1: a pushanger. He's kind of turning his finding a narrative 533 00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:11,400 Speaker 1: conflict where none really exists. So, Lincoln, are we ever 534 00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:15,400 Speaker 1: going to hear the words I concede from President Trump? No, 535 00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:17,240 Speaker 1: we're never going to hear the words I can see 536 00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:19,840 Speaker 1: is from President Trump. And if you were to, you know, 537 00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:21,840 Speaker 1: the journalist, if you were to go to mar Longo 538 00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:24,280 Speaker 1: five years and now with the older president, former President 539 00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:26,520 Speaker 1: Trump an interview, he would still claim he won this election. 540 00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:31,720 Speaker 1: A concession is a is a statement of grace and dignity, 541 00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:34,160 Speaker 1: and those are not characteristics that we see a lot 542 00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:36,120 Speaker 1: of them Donald Trump over the course of his almost 543 00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:39,280 Speaker 1: three quarters of a century on this planet. Now, on 544 00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:42,360 Speaker 1: some level, it doesn't matter because his lack of a 545 00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:45,760 Speaker 1: concession doesn't mean that Biden doesn't become president. Right that 546 00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:49,000 Speaker 1: process is going to happen. Biden will become the president. However, 547 00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:53,360 Speaker 1: slowing down the transition process is not good for America. 548 00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:55,920 Speaker 1: It's not good for the new administration, but it's really 549 00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:58,760 Speaker 1: not good for the stability of the country. And that's 550 00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:01,760 Speaker 1: more troubling. The fact that he doesn't believe he lost 551 00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:04,120 Speaker 1: in and that many I think of the closest people 552 00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:06,720 Speaker 1: around him, like his sons, are helping build a world 553 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:09,320 Speaker 1: where he won. And he'll surround himself by people who 554 00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:11,400 Speaker 1: say he won and it was stolen, and a few 555 00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:14,280 Speaker 1: people will believe that outside of his political face. That's 556 00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:16,440 Speaker 1: one thing, But the fact that he's making it harder 557 00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:19,400 Speaker 1: for this transition to happen, which is a legal process. 558 00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:21,479 Speaker 1: There are, you know, things that need to be happening. 559 00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:23,960 Speaker 1: Documents to be signed, far to need to be released, 560 00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:27,120 Speaker 1: and by stopping that. It is really playing a destructive role. 561 00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:29,560 Speaker 1: But it's not going to make him president for another 562 00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:33,080 Speaker 1: four years or something, so Lester As Lincoln said, federal 563 00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:36,680 Speaker 1: agencies are required by law to prepare for a transition 564 00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:40,960 Speaker 1: even before the election, but the floor that activity that 565 00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:44,840 Speaker 1: would normally be taking place is on hold. And from 566 00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:47,200 Speaker 1: what I've read, I mean, there are offices that are 567 00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:50,480 Speaker 1: ready to have transition team member, there are briefing books 568 00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:53,800 Speaker 1: that are ready, and nothing is being done. How much 569 00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:57,520 Speaker 1: might that hurt Joe Biden when he actually does get 570 00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:03,560 Speaker 1: into office. Well, I have to say I think that 571 00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:07,160 Speaker 1: this is a little overblown at least right now. Um, 572 00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:12,800 Speaker 1: we're probably a week away from the president's legal options 573 00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:16,960 Speaker 1: running out of steam, and then on December four teens, 574 00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:21,840 Speaker 1: the Electoral College will demonstrate conclusively that Joe Biden is 575 00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:26,520 Speaker 1: the president elect. That's not that far away. The job 576 00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:30,480 Speaker 1: of these transition teams is really to identify personnel, to 577 00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:33,440 Speaker 1: to find the positions that they want to put their 578 00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:37,600 Speaker 1: political appointees into. Joe Biden has been around Washington for 579 00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:40,600 Speaker 1: a very long time. He's surrounded by, you know, very 580 00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:45,360 Speaker 1: competent Democrats who know how the government works. His transition 581 00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:47,759 Speaker 1: will be just fine. But the one place where I 582 00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:51,640 Speaker 1: am a little concerned might be on coronavirus, where you 583 00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:54,839 Speaker 1: want to have the good things that the Trump administration 584 00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:58,320 Speaker 1: is doing be protected in the Biden administration as he 585 00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:01,360 Speaker 1: tries to add things that that will also be beneficial, 586 00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:05,120 Speaker 1: and so the earlier you can have conversations between global 587 00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:09,600 Speaker 1: health and public health officials over coronavirus, the better. Also 588 00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:11,960 Speaker 1: the rest of the agencies, I think a couple more 589 00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:14,320 Speaker 1: weeks isn't really going to hurt much of the transition. 590 00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:19,160 Speaker 1: We've still got some time waken. The President also is 591 00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:25,320 Speaker 1: doing various things in agencies, like look of firing the 592 00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:29,480 Speaker 1: National Security UM. I'm sorry, I'm trying to remember what 593 00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:34,080 Speaker 1: his position isn't which the Defense Secretary? Right fired the 594 00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:39,239 Speaker 1: Defense Secretary, and also apparently some changes at the Pentagon UM. 595 00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:43,040 Speaker 1: There's there's some rumors that he's poised to order troop 596 00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:45,920 Speaker 1: cuts from Afghanistan and Iraq. Can he do a lot 597 00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:50,200 Speaker 1: of damage on the way out? I mean, the short 598 00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:52,759 Speaker 1: answer to that is yes. The longer answer to that 599 00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:57,160 Speaker 1: is less clear and firing Mark Effort. You know, I'm 600 00:35:57,200 --> 00:35:59,520 Speaker 1: not sure what real impact that has. I'm not sure 601 00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:02,720 Speaker 1: the defense farm can kind of keep running itself, especially 602 00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:05,200 Speaker 1: for a short period of time. And also Mark Esper 603 00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:08,480 Speaker 1: wasn't making decisions on farm, major big picture decisions anyway. 604 00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:11,120 Speaker 1: Don Donald Trump was, and maybe Jared Kushner was too, 605 00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:14,000 Speaker 1: So that kind of thing doesn't bother me, you know more, 606 00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:17,239 Speaker 1: you know, things like deciding to drill up in the Arctic, 607 00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:19,719 Speaker 1: like things like for oil, things like that, these kind 608 00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:23,120 Speaker 1: of um decisions that that he knows that he's just 609 00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:26,840 Speaker 1: the politics don't matter anymore. And also the you know, 610 00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:29,480 Speaker 1: I would expect that the griff will continue until the 611 00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:32,640 Speaker 1: very end. So the way for Donald Trump and his 612 00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:36,760 Speaker 1: cronies to get more enriched himselves more at the expense 613 00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:38,520 Speaker 1: one way or the other of the American people, that 614 00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:42,160 Speaker 1: will not end until January, and he will be more 615 00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:44,360 Speaker 1: infantivized to do that knowing he doesn't have to go 616 00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:47,480 Speaker 1: before voters, knowing that that it doesn't really matter anymore. 617 00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:51,200 Speaker 1: So that's really what I'm most concerned about, not a 618 00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:54,320 Speaker 1: series of you know, presidential laws being passed or anything 619 00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:55,800 Speaker 1: like that. I don't I don't sense that's what we 620 00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:59,320 Speaker 1: need to fear, all right, both of you still staying 621 00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:02,360 Speaker 1: with me, and the Senate is still up for grabs. 622 00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:05,759 Speaker 1: We've just been talking about how important getting a majority 623 00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:08,680 Speaker 1: in the Senate would be for Biden to press forward 624 00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:12,279 Speaker 1: with his different initiatives. So which side has the advantage 625 00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:15,800 Speaker 1: in that Georgia runoff? I'm June Grosso sitting in for 626 00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:40,760 Speaker 1: Kevin cur Really, and you're listening to Bloomberg. You're listening 627 00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:45,440 Speaker 1: to Bloomberg Sound on with Kevin Surly on Bloomberg and 628 00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:47,680 Speaker 1: one oh five point seven f M H D two. 629 00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:52,719 Speaker 1: I'm June Grosso sitting in for Kevin cur Really. Joe 630 00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:55,840 Speaker 1: Biden turned Georgia blue, but will Democrats be able to 631 00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:59,960 Speaker 1: repeat Biden's feet into Senate runoffs in that state? On Januar, 632 00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:03,600 Speaker 1: where five Democrats need to win both raises to gain 633 00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:07,760 Speaker 1: control of the Senate. John Assoff, who's facing off against 634 00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:11,200 Speaker 1: Senator David Purdue and the Georgia runoff election, spoke on 635 00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:15,400 Speaker 1: ABC's This Week. Meanwhile, Senator David Produce spoke to supporters 636 00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:18,240 Speaker 1: with the message of keeping the state from going blue. 637 00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:21,960 Speaker 1: Trump is leaving, whether he knows it or not, and 638 00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:24,080 Speaker 1: the question now is how we're going to contain this 639 00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:27,680 Speaker 1: pandemic which is raging out of control. Which is spreading 640 00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:30,520 Speaker 1: at an accelerating rate. Stay with us, and let's make 641 00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:33,319 Speaker 1: darn sure that the road to socialism never runs through 642 00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:37,680 Speaker 1: the state of Georgia. I've been talking to Lester months 643 00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:40,919 Speaker 1: in principle at government relations firm b g R Group 644 00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:44,840 Speaker 1: and serves as adjunct faculty at Johns Hopkins University and Lincoln. 645 00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:48,080 Speaker 1: Mitchell writer and political analyst. He teaches political science at 646 00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:54,320 Speaker 1: Columbia University, Lincoln. Which which side has the advantage in 647 00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:58,959 Speaker 1: the Georgia runoffs. Georgia has become a very purple state, 648 00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:01,040 Speaker 1: and we think of it storically over the last twenty 649 00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:04,080 Speaker 1: thirty years as as a solidly Republican state. But you know, 650 00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:07,759 Speaker 1: the governor's race there was very close to Republican one, 651 00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:10,960 Speaker 1: and there was some controversy around that. The presidential top 652 00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:13,080 Speaker 1: of the ticket this year was very close and bite one, 653 00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:15,719 Speaker 1: but by a very narrow margin. So my sense is 654 00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:19,560 Speaker 1: that it's anyone's race. Having said that the most for me, 655 00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:21,279 Speaker 1: what this is going to come down to, and and 656 00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:23,480 Speaker 1: you know it's pundits always say it's going to come 657 00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:25,200 Speaker 1: down to turn out, which is like saying it's going 658 00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:26,799 Speaker 1: to come down to who gets the most votes. That's 659 00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:29,279 Speaker 1: not exactly insiteful, but let me try to make it 660 00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:32,799 Speaker 1: a little more insightful. Both sides are trying to keep 661 00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:36,680 Speaker 1: the energy and the momentum that they had in November 662 00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:39,600 Speaker 1: right at particularly on the Democratic side where there was 663 00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:42,160 Speaker 1: a lot of groups, particularly among African Americans and Georgia 664 00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:45,440 Speaker 1: Stacey apams, but also other groups really trying to register 665 00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:48,719 Speaker 1: and get out new votes. And whichever side can keep 666 00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:51,440 Speaker 1: that energy going through January five is going to win 667 00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:54,200 Speaker 1: the wild And so there's no two wild goots here. 668 00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:56,960 Speaker 1: One is hard to imagine a voter going in and saying, 669 00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:59,279 Speaker 1: you know, I like the thoughts Off guy, but I 670 00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:03,160 Speaker 1: also like lawfleot right, or you know, I like Perdue, 671 00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:05,440 Speaker 1: but this Warnut guy really excites me. So it's it's 672 00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:09,279 Speaker 1: really hard to imagine each each party getting one seat there. 673 00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:12,000 Speaker 1: It's probably I mean, I think either Democrats get too 674 00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:16,279 Speaker 1: or they get or they get no seats. So and 675 00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:19,320 Speaker 1: the last thing is that, you know, January five, a 676 00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:22,800 Speaker 1: lot could be happening between now and then. If COVID 677 00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:27,640 Speaker 1: continues to get worse, that will change perhaps people's perceptions 678 00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:30,200 Speaker 1: of the Republican Party and the loyalty of these two 679 00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:33,320 Speaker 1: Senators to Donald Trump. If Joe Biden appears to somehow 680 00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:36,239 Speaker 1: stumble in the transition, that could move things the other way. 681 00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:38,759 Speaker 1: So we can this this election is you know, it's 682 00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:40,680 Speaker 1: six weeks from now, but it's two months from the election, 683 00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:45,240 Speaker 1: and it will occur in a different political world. Lincoln, 684 00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:48,960 Speaker 1: what's your take and what's the effect of not having 685 00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:53,879 Speaker 1: Donald Trump on the ballot? Well, he cuts two ways. 686 00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:59,839 Speaker 1: Donald Trump has a real ability. I'm at Lester wasn't 687 00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:06,359 Speaker 1: after a chance here, Lincoln. Are you both go very 688 00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:14,080 Speaker 1: well together? Yes, right, thank you. But I'm wondering that's 689 00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:17,959 Speaker 1: Trump not being on the ballot. Yeah, I think that's 690 00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:22,279 Speaker 1: the huge factor here right there. There's um. There was 691 00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:26,120 Speaker 1: massive turnout for the election on November three because the 692 00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:29,440 Speaker 1: question of whether or not to keep Trump really motivated 693 00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:34,200 Speaker 1: both sides. On June five, two months later, he's not 694 00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:36,440 Speaker 1: on the ballot. Joe Biden is not on the ballot. 695 00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:39,480 Speaker 1: There's not going to be nearly as many voters. So 696 00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:43,399 Speaker 1: each side is trying to appeal to the folks who 697 00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:45,320 Speaker 1: are most likely to come out to vote. On the 698 00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:48,600 Speaker 1: Republican side, those are going to be the people who 699 00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:52,400 Speaker 1: want to get back at the Democrats for ousting President Trump. 700 00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:56,799 Speaker 1: So you're seeing both Senator Perdue and Senator Lowfler, who 701 00:41:56,800 --> 00:42:01,000 Speaker 1: are both incumbents, the two Republican candidates campaigning as if 702 00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:04,040 Speaker 1: this is a national election, saying I will stop the 703 00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:09,640 Speaker 1: Biden agenda. They're trying to drive those hardcore, most most 704 00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:13,279 Speaker 1: dedicated voters to the polls, thinking that if they can 705 00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:15,840 Speaker 1: get more of their base out, they're gonna win. And 706 00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:19,719 Speaker 1: so they're not even talking about their opponents necessarily. They're 707 00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:23,440 Speaker 1: talking about the larger meta questions of where the country 708 00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:29,440 Speaker 1: is going, capitalism versus socialism, the Trump legacy, things like that, 709 00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:32,880 Speaker 1: because they're trying to get those most devoted voters to 710 00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:35,960 Speaker 1: show up because they know it's not going to be 711 00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:38,560 Speaker 1: anything like November three, and they've got to work hard 712 00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:43,520 Speaker 1: to get even half of those people to show up. Lincoln, 713 00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:46,000 Speaker 1: and I mean Lincoln this time. I'm serious this time. 714 00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:49,080 Speaker 1: So what you know, what's your take on the fact 715 00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:52,600 Speaker 1: that there are two incumbents, the Democrats are running against 716 00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:57,800 Speaker 1: two incumbents, and apparently there's money to be spent on 717 00:42:57,960 --> 00:42:59,920 Speaker 1: both sides. I don't think either side is going to be, 718 00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:04,279 Speaker 1: you know, looking for money. Well, there's going to be 719 00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:07,360 Speaker 1: an enormous amount of money going into this race, and 720 00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:12,319 Speaker 1: the Democratic side is going to be can you keep 721 00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:16,240 Speaker 1: that suburban subra suburbs of Atlanta, who are mostly white voters, 722 00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:20,000 Speaker 1: can you keep them in in the Biden camp, which 723 00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:22,719 Speaker 1: in this case means voting for a Warnock and Osa. 724 00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:25,920 Speaker 1: And it's going to be that. That's what this race. 725 00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:27,920 Speaker 1: I mean. I think the turnout question is very important, 726 00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:31,600 Speaker 1: but a little bit of persuasion, you know, Biden. One 727 00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:33,800 Speaker 1: of the biggest changes in this election terms the exit 728 00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:38,279 Speaker 1: polls was that white male voters went from Biden excuse me, 729 00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:42,000 Speaker 1: Trump went from winning white mail voters by according to 730 00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:48,400 Speaker 1: the exit pose against Clinton to against Um against Biden. 731 00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:50,560 Speaker 1: Now that's that's still a resounding win, and white mail 732 00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:52,600 Speaker 1: voters are still kind of the demographic group that makes 733 00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:56,279 Speaker 1: up the strongest part of Trump's base. But that's a persuasion, right, 734 00:43:56,320 --> 00:43:58,799 Speaker 1: That's that's the result of persuading voters that Trump isn't 735 00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:00,640 Speaker 1: the way to go. And if they can keep the 736 00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:04,440 Speaker 1: pressure on persuasion, especially as Trump is likely to become 737 00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:07,560 Speaker 1: less not more appealing to the middle of the road 738 00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:10,360 Speaker 1: centrist voters, that could help the Democrats. Of course, they 739 00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:12,120 Speaker 1: also have to get their vote out and that's where 740 00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:16,640 Speaker 1: most of the money should be going. Um lester, how 741 00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:20,239 Speaker 1: much do you think that that that refrain that we've 742 00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:24,759 Speaker 1: heard time and time again about you know, socialism and 743 00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:27,600 Speaker 1: you know the Democrats in this race are going to 744 00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:31,799 Speaker 1: turn the country into socialists. How much will that matter? 745 00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:34,400 Speaker 1: We just heard that from the from Purdue in the 746 00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:40,359 Speaker 1: sound bite. How much do people really buy that? Well, Uh, 747 00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:43,359 Speaker 1: it does seem to matter the voters. And I will say, 748 00:44:43,719 --> 00:44:46,520 Speaker 1: while I I certainly don't think that Joe Biden is 749 00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:50,719 Speaker 1: going to trying the country socialists, there were at least 750 00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:55,799 Speaker 1: a couple of Democratic presidential candidates who basically called themselves socialists. Uh, 751 00:44:56,280 --> 00:44:59,640 Speaker 1: Democrats have kind of brought this on themselves. The far 752 00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:04,759 Speaker 1: of the of their party. The hardcore progressives are advocating 753 00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:08,560 Speaker 1: policies that are essentially socialist policies. So I think while 754 00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:11,200 Speaker 1: they are not likely to be in positions of of 755 00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:15,520 Speaker 1: um authority and deciding what the policies will be, they 756 00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:18,279 Speaker 1: are in the party that is, and that is so 757 00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:22,640 Speaker 1: it becomes a fair fair game for discussion for Republicans 758 00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:25,960 Speaker 1: and and and it's a very quick way of explaining 759 00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:30,040 Speaker 1: a complex political situation, so politicians will use it. It's 760 00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:32,400 Speaker 1: being used in Georgia, and that's that's a big going 761 00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:36,080 Speaker 1: to be a big part of the debate, Lincoln, how 762 00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:39,440 Speaker 1: much is going to depend We have all these outsiders 763 00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:43,520 Speaker 1: that are going to descend on Georgia. We've already seen 764 00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:48,000 Speaker 1: Senator Marco Rubio I believe was was in Georgia campaigning. 765 00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:52,320 Speaker 1: How much is going to depend on those outsiders or 766 00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:55,719 Speaker 1: the celebrity kind of influence. We're weird. We're in a 767 00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:57,919 Speaker 1: very different moment now with regards to the Senate races 768 00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:00,560 Speaker 1: and send a congresstional racism were even eight years ago 769 00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:03,760 Speaker 1: in some sense every Senate race. I mean Typo O'Neal 770 00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:07,840 Speaker 1: famously said all politics is local, but in all politics 771 00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:11,200 Speaker 1: is national. Right, So folks on both outsides of the 772 00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:13,360 Speaker 1: island this race are trying to nationalize that. This is 773 00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:16,040 Speaker 1: this is this is trump first bite again, and it's 774 00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:19,000 Speaker 1: some really important way it is. However, the only people 775 00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:22,000 Speaker 1: that matter in this election really are voters in Georgia, 776 00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:26,040 Speaker 1: and I when you when you get into situation, you 777 00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:31,000 Speaker 1: can overplay your hand by nationalizing voters in Georgia want this. 778 00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:32,760 Speaker 1: You know, there aren't mean if you're living in Georgia. 779 00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:34,640 Speaker 1: This is our senator we're talking about. I want to 780 00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:36,920 Speaker 1: say who my senator is. I don't want Marco Rubio 781 00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:40,480 Speaker 1: or Kamala Harris on the Democratic side or anyone else 782 00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:44,239 Speaker 1: coming in and tell me, telling me particularly voters, who 783 00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:46,439 Speaker 1: are those swing voters, and I think those voters still 784 00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:48,800 Speaker 1: matter in this election. And the other side of that 785 00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:51,960 Speaker 1: is that every Senate race, you know, if you're on 786 00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:53,600 Speaker 1: the outside, you see it as you know, it's like 787 00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:55,840 Speaker 1: I said, it feels national, but there always are local 788 00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:58,759 Speaker 1: aspects to it. So the candidates in this race that 789 00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:02,000 Speaker 1: can really perhaps speak most persuasively about what's going to 790 00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:04,840 Speaker 1: help develop the Georgia's economy, about what's going to be 791 00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:07,640 Speaker 1: the most fluent on the politics issues face in Georgia 792 00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:12,600 Speaker 1: is going to be an advantage. And Marco Ruby coming up, 793 00:47:12,600 --> 00:47:14,840 Speaker 1: we're going to be talking about what is on the 794 00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:18,080 Speaker 1: radar for all of us that's coming up. I'm June 795 00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:34,920 Speaker 1: Grosso and you're listening to Bloomberg. You're listening to Bloomberg 796 00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:39,080 Speaker 1: Sound On with Kevin Surrele on Bloomberg and one oh 797 00:47:39,200 --> 00:47:43,240 Speaker 1: five point seven m h D two. I'm June Grosso. 798 00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:46,520 Speaker 1: Sitting in for Kevin Sorelli, and I've been talking to 799 00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:50,320 Speaker 1: Lester months in principle at government relations firms b g 800 00:47:50,719 --> 00:47:54,640 Speaker 1: R Group and serves as adjunct faculty at Johns Hopkins University. 801 00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:58,240 Speaker 1: And Lincoln Mitchell writer and political analyst. He teaches political 802 00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:02,480 Speaker 1: science at Columbia univer Versity. So now we come time 803 00:48:02,719 --> 00:48:05,759 Speaker 1: for I think Kevin's favorite part of the show, which 804 00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:10,520 Speaker 1: is What's on your Radar? So Lincoln, I'll start with you, 805 00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:13,880 Speaker 1: what's on your radar? Well, I'm watching events in my 806 00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:17,320 Speaker 1: home state where our governor, my old governor, Gavin k Newsom, 807 00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:19,480 Speaker 1: recently went to dinner at the French Laundry, which is 808 00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:20,920 Speaker 1: considered I've never been there, but it's one of the 809 00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:24,000 Speaker 1: best restaurants. I did an outdoor dinner, but clearly not 810 00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:26,600 Speaker 1: consistent with and perhaps not the rules, but certainly that 811 00:48:26,719 --> 00:48:30,040 Speaker 1: the message of taking COVID seriously. But what I'm really 812 00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:33,800 Speaker 1: watching here is who does he appoint to Kamala Harris's 813 00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:37,120 Speaker 1: Senate seat. Every politician these Santa sets don't come up 814 00:48:37,120 --> 00:48:40,640 Speaker 1: too often. Every politician in California, be democratic politician, is 815 00:48:40,719 --> 00:48:42,879 Speaker 1: eyeing this and he has a lot of questions. He's 816 00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:45,440 Speaker 1: got gender issues. There's never in modern times has been 817 00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:48,680 Speaker 1: a Mexican American senator from California. There's some older hands 818 00:48:48,719 --> 00:48:52,280 Speaker 1: in are around, and Xavier Baka, who is the Attorney General, 819 00:48:52,719 --> 00:48:55,040 Speaker 1: is on some of the shortlist for national Attorney General. 820 00:48:55,440 --> 00:48:57,640 Speaker 1: So Gavin Newsom is going to have some important appointments 821 00:48:57,719 --> 00:49:00,319 Speaker 1: in his on his hands. He's never gonna be president, right. 822 00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:03,239 Speaker 1: Kamala Harris will be the candidate from San Francisco who 823 00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:05,840 Speaker 1: runs in the future for president, not Gavin Newsom, but 824 00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:09,719 Speaker 1: he could really reshape California politics and be a kingmaker 825 00:49:10,080 --> 00:49:11,560 Speaker 1: in the most important state in the country for a 826 00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:14,799 Speaker 1: generation over the next coming months. Is there a front 827 00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:18,000 Speaker 1: runner talk of a front runner in that no, I 828 00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:20,480 Speaker 1: mean Xavier Becara, the attorney general, is thought of by 829 00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:22,680 Speaker 1: cart attorney generals, thought of by some as the front 830 00:49:22,719 --> 00:49:24,840 Speaker 1: runner because that way Gavin could then appoint someone to 831 00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:29,680 Speaker 1: succeed him, right, Barbara Lee, the congresswoman uh from from 832 00:49:29,719 --> 00:49:31,560 Speaker 1: the East Bay, Karen Bass from l A. If he 833 00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:34,400 Speaker 1: wants to point other afric American American woman. The demographics 834 00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:37,160 Speaker 1: here are very important. There's some older people from the 835 00:49:37,200 --> 00:49:39,920 Speaker 1: past whose names have been bandied about. Willie Brown, the 836 00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:42,719 Speaker 1: former Speaker of the Assembly and mayor of San Francisco. 837 00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:45,560 Speaker 1: Some have floated the name Adam Ships so with you know, California, 838 00:49:45,600 --> 00:49:49,160 Speaker 1: particularly democratic side of the aisle, is a state very 839 00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:51,920 Speaker 1: rich and very very diverse political talent, and it's not 840 00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:54,520 Speaker 1: clear he will go where Gavin will go. And that 841 00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:58,520 Speaker 1: The other side of this is that Diane Feinstein is 842 00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:02,560 Speaker 1: you know she she's not a young woman anymore. Um, 843 00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:05,760 Speaker 1: And you know, he could potentially have two Senate departments 844 00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:07,399 Speaker 1: and he could appoint himself to one of those seats. 845 00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:11,040 Speaker 1: So there's a lot of ways this could go. Appointing yourself. 846 00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:14,880 Speaker 1: All right, let's not hope for that. Lester Monthson, what 847 00:50:15,239 --> 00:50:19,280 Speaker 1: is on your radar? So I'm following something a little different. 848 00:50:19,480 --> 00:50:23,520 Speaker 1: I'm watching Ethiopia, which a lot of folks will remember 849 00:50:23,640 --> 00:50:26,600 Speaker 1: for its fanning back in the nineteen eighties. Things have 850 00:50:26,680 --> 00:50:29,960 Speaker 1: been relatively calm since then. There is now a civil 851 00:50:30,040 --> 00:50:33,920 Speaker 1: war brewing in Ethiopia between the central government and the 852 00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:37,040 Speaker 1: two grains who are in the province to the in 853 00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:41,560 Speaker 1: the north of the country. At the same time, Ethiopia 854 00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:45,520 Speaker 1: is in a huge disagreement with Egypt over the fact 855 00:50:45,640 --> 00:50:49,520 Speaker 1: that Ethiopia has damned up the Nile River to produce 856 00:50:49,680 --> 00:50:53,439 Speaker 1: hydroelectric power for itself. The Egyptians are very upset. They're 857 00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:58,200 Speaker 1: worried that they'll be less Nile waters flowing downriver to 858 00:50:58,360 --> 00:51:01,560 Speaker 1: Egypt where they rely on those waters for augricultural um 859 00:51:02,120 --> 00:51:05,759 Speaker 1: the agricultural needs. Uh. So there's a lot of things 860 00:51:05,840 --> 00:51:08,520 Speaker 1: going on in Ethiopia. It's a country of well over 861 00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:13,040 Speaker 1: a hundred million people. We've seen what happens when things 862 00:51:13,120 --> 00:51:15,440 Speaker 1: go badly there before. I'm a little worried that we 863 00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:18,480 Speaker 1: might be saying that again. All right, we'll keep our 864 00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:22,360 Speaker 1: all on that. Now I am focusing on what's on 865 00:51:22,440 --> 00:51:24,640 Speaker 1: my radar. I should put it in the correct format. 866 00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:27,640 Speaker 1: What's on my radar is a court here in tomorrow 867 00:51:27,920 --> 00:51:31,920 Speaker 1: on Pennsylvania's motion to dismiss a lawsuit that the campaign 868 00:51:32,120 --> 00:51:35,800 Speaker 1: filed to prevent the state from certifying Biden as a 869 00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:38,800 Speaker 1: winner of its twenty electoral votes. And there's been this 870 00:51:39,080 --> 00:51:42,400 Speaker 1: huge focus on Pennsylvania and all the lawsuits there, but 871 00:51:42,520 --> 00:51:45,920 Speaker 1: the lawsuits have either been withdrawn most of them, or 872 00:51:46,640 --> 00:51:49,799 Speaker 1: uh they've been dismissed by the court. So I think 873 00:51:49,920 --> 00:51:53,239 Speaker 1: that this is the big one that's left so far. 874 00:51:53,440 --> 00:51:56,600 Speaker 1: And if the Trump campaign loses this as well. I 875 00:51:56,960 --> 00:52:00,520 Speaker 1: think it might deflate the campaign's legal effort. It's on 876 00:52:00,640 --> 00:52:03,560 Speaker 1: a personal note, I want to know how fast the 877 00:52:03,800 --> 00:52:06,960 Speaker 1: Barack Obama memoir is going to sell out and when 878 00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:09,440 Speaker 1: I can get a copy without having to wait online 879 00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:13,760 Speaker 1: for it. Are either of you going to read Barack 880 00:52:13,880 --> 00:52:19,680 Speaker 1: Obama's memoir. I'm still working my way through John Bolton's memoir, 881 00:52:19,800 --> 00:52:21,920 Speaker 1: but i'd be I'd be happy to read Barack Obama's 882 00:52:21,920 --> 00:52:24,920 Speaker 1: when I've done about one. I could without having read it, 883 00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:26,400 Speaker 1: I will say with some certainty that he's a vet 884 00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:30,160 Speaker 1: writer at that John Bolton I read. I read Michelle 885 00:52:30,200 --> 00:52:32,839 Speaker 1: Obama's memo, which actually really enjoyed. I suspect I will 886 00:52:32,880 --> 00:52:35,000 Speaker 1: read Barack Obama's memoir. But one of the things I've 887 00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:38,120 Speaker 1: been doing to get through this pandemic is allowing myself 888 00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:39,759 Speaker 1: to spend more time reading. So I just got an 889 00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:43,400 Speaker 1: enormous delivery from a local bookstore and saw Barack Obama's 890 00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:46,839 Speaker 1: memoir will have to wait. Well, now, after you're done 891 00:52:46,920 --> 00:52:50,560 Speaker 1: with John Bolton's, what's the next one on your list? Lester, 892 00:52:52,440 --> 00:52:56,480 Speaker 1: I'm actually um reading a book by by a fellow 893 00:52:56,480 --> 00:53:00,640 Speaker 1: at the American Enterprise Institute about the bona abilities of 894 00:53:00,719 --> 00:53:03,480 Speaker 1: the People's Republic of China. It's kind of a different 895 00:53:03,600 --> 00:53:06,840 Speaker 1: take on China as this rising colossus in the world 896 00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:10,800 Speaker 1: and its dead focuses on all of the various problems 897 00:53:10,840 --> 00:53:13,560 Speaker 1: in Chinese society that we're kind of looking past as 898 00:53:13,640 --> 00:53:17,080 Speaker 1: we focus on their economic growth, and I'm just forgetting 899 00:53:17,080 --> 00:53:18,680 Speaker 1: the name of it at moment. It was quite compelling. 900 00:53:20,160 --> 00:53:22,640 Speaker 1: I see your you read light literature. I see that 901 00:53:25,239 --> 00:53:29,279 Speaker 1: you really have focused on it. So the problem is always, though, 902 00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:32,600 Speaker 1: I think with all of us that work in this area, 903 00:53:32,640 --> 00:53:35,960 Speaker 1: if you working news or government, is that you're constantly reading, 904 00:53:36,520 --> 00:53:39,160 Speaker 1: you know, news stories, and you're constantly like, I am 905 00:53:39,280 --> 00:53:43,239 Speaker 1: so tired of watching just news on TV because if 906 00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:45,919 Speaker 1: you don't watch it, then the next minute you will 907 00:53:45,920 --> 00:53:50,759 Speaker 1: be behind because it moves so fast. So, um, I'm 908 00:53:50,840 --> 00:53:53,800 Speaker 1: wondering when you think we should be watching Lincoln for 909 00:53:54,200 --> 00:54:00,080 Speaker 1: President Trump to make a subsidence statement, substantive statement on 910 00:54:00,200 --> 00:54:04,880 Speaker 1: what's coming up. Well, I mean, here's afropop what you 911 00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:07,120 Speaker 1: were saying about not needing to stay on top of this. 912 00:54:07,360 --> 00:54:10,080 Speaker 1: Don't watch for that, go watch the Crown or something. 913 00:54:10,160 --> 00:54:13,080 Speaker 1: It doesn't matter what Donald Trump says. He's a former 914 00:54:13,239 --> 00:54:16,200 Speaker 1: president who's not being very gracious about it, and a 915 00:54:16,280 --> 00:54:18,759 Speaker 1: year from now he'll still be a former president. Wasn't 916 00:54:18,760 --> 00:54:21,920 Speaker 1: being very gracious. We the best thing we can do 917 00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:24,759 Speaker 1: collectively for the mental health of the three thirty million 918 00:54:24,800 --> 00:54:26,680 Speaker 1: of us, you know, in this country, is to not 919 00:54:26,840 --> 00:54:29,160 Speaker 1: worry about Donald Trump's next tweet or public state. But 920 00:54:29,239 --> 00:54:31,960 Speaker 1: it doesn't matter if he conceded, he lost. Biden is 921 00:54:32,000 --> 00:54:34,719 Speaker 1: going to be the president, and that's what matters. I 922 00:54:34,800 --> 00:54:36,840 Speaker 1: think we're still going to be looking at his tweets 923 00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:42,520 Speaker 1: at least until January one, Lester, what do you think? Yeah, 924 00:54:42,600 --> 00:54:44,839 Speaker 1: I think that's right. He's going to try to make this, uh, 925 00:54:45,000 --> 00:54:49,399 Speaker 1: this kind of epilogue to his presidential reality show as 926 00:54:49,600 --> 00:54:52,279 Speaker 1: interesting as possible. He wants people to focus on him 927 00:54:52,320 --> 00:54:55,399 Speaker 1: and talk about him. Uh, he's he was a very 928 00:54:55,640 --> 00:54:59,200 Speaker 1: very good reality TV show star. I suspect that's still 929 00:54:59,280 --> 00:55:01,239 Speaker 1: what he's doing. And by the way, June I figured 930 00:55:01,239 --> 00:55:02,279 Speaker 1: out the name of the book. I want to put 931 00:55:02,280 --> 00:55:04,360 Speaker 1: it in a little plug. It's called The China Nightmare 932 00:55:04,520 --> 00:55:07,040 Speaker 1: by Dan Bloman Paul. So far about ten pages and 933 00:55:07,120 --> 00:55:09,800 Speaker 1: it's terrific. How many page does you have to go? 934 00:55:11,320 --> 00:55:16,480 Speaker 1: It's only got thirty five to go. It's quite short actually, 935 00:55:16,719 --> 00:55:19,400 Speaker 1: oh all right, because it's just the name itself just 936 00:55:19,560 --> 00:55:22,080 Speaker 1: sounded like a huge book. I was thinking three hundred, 937 00:55:22,160 --> 00:55:26,759 Speaker 1: four hundred pages. All right, Thank you both. It's been 938 00:55:26,880 --> 00:55:31,440 Speaker 1: so interesting talking to the both of you this evening. So, Lincoln, 939 00:55:31,800 --> 00:55:33,520 Speaker 1: what do you what do you think is going to 940 00:55:33,640 --> 00:55:36,520 Speaker 1: happen as far as the inauguration? Are we going to 941 00:55:36,680 --> 00:55:40,239 Speaker 1: see President Trump on the stage. No, you're not going 942 00:55:40,280 --> 00:55:42,239 Speaker 1: to see President Trump on the stage, not even on 943 00:55:42,360 --> 00:55:45,160 Speaker 1: the stage. Huh No, And and and unless there is right, 944 00:55:45,239 --> 00:55:48,880 Speaker 1: I mean, Trump craves attention more than he craves money, 945 00:55:49,200 --> 00:55:51,560 Speaker 1: more than he craves you know, well done stakes ketchup, 946 00:55:51,960 --> 00:55:54,800 Speaker 1: more than he craves anything else. This is his oxygen 947 00:55:55,200 --> 00:55:58,319 Speaker 1: and he will do anything he can to keep having 948 00:55:58,400 --> 00:56:00,520 Speaker 1: that oxygen. But we don't have to give it to him. 949 00:56:00,719 --> 00:56:02,520 Speaker 1: And he's not to me on the stage. My suspicion, 950 00:56:02,560 --> 00:56:05,080 Speaker 1: you're fine, Tibet, is that he goes tomorrow lago at 951 00:56:05,120 --> 00:56:07,520 Speaker 1: some point, you know, around Christmas, and just kind of 952 00:56:07,560 --> 00:56:11,640 Speaker 1: stays there. All right, Thank you both. That's Lester Munson, 953 00:56:12,040 --> 00:56:15,440 Speaker 1: principle of government relations firm b GR Group, and Lincoln Mitchell, 954 00:56:15,520 --> 00:56:19,839 Speaker 1: writer and political analyst, teacher of political science at Columbia University. 955 00:56:20,200 --> 00:56:22,920 Speaker 1: I'm June Grosso. I've been sitting in for Kevin Crelli, 956 00:56:23,000 --> 00:56:41,799 Speaker 1: will be back tomorrow, and you're listening to Bloomberg Ye