WEBVTT - Is the Check in the Mail? with Sheryl Swoopes, Ticha Penicheiro and Donna Orender 0:00:00.840 --> 0:00:02.800 Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where we've been 0:00:02.840 --> 0:00:06.120 replaying Chelsea Grace pair of buzzer beating three pointers on 0:00:06.160 --> 0:00:07.480 a loop since Thursday. 0:00:08.119 --> 0:00:09.560 It's Monday, August. 0:00:09.160 --> 0:00:11.600 Tenth, and on today's show, we're bringing you my fantastic 0:00:11.680 --> 0:00:15.600 All Star Weekend conversation with WNBA legends Cheryl Swoops and 0:00:15.640 --> 0:00:18.880 Tisha Pennicero and former President of the w NOW commission 0:00:18.880 --> 0:00:21.560 of the Upshot League, Donna orander I sat down with 0:00:21.600 --> 0:00:24.520 the trio in Chicago for an event benefiting the v Foundation, 0:00:24.800 --> 0:00:27.800 which raises money for cancer research, so far granting an 0:00:27.800 --> 0:00:32.400 incredible four hundred and fifty eight million dollars in counting Cheryl, Tisha, 0:00:32.479 --> 0:00:34.440 Donna and I discussed the highs and lows of the 0:00:34.479 --> 0:00:37.560 early days of the WNBA, how they tackled the job 0:00:37.600 --> 0:00:40.080 of commissioner, and why the league and players need to 0:00:40.120 --> 0:00:42.640 be united in taking charge of the narrative around the 0:00:42.760 --> 0:00:46.320 w Plus, the Tour de front Femme celebrates its first 0:00:46.360 --> 0:00:50.239 two time winner, Chelsea Daggers and taking an l from 0:00:50.280 --> 0:00:52.879 the One who Got Away. It's all coming out right 0:00:52.920 --> 0:01:01.760 after this Welcome back, Sligh, this Happy Monday. Here's what 0:01:01.800 --> 0:01:06.319 you need to know today. Let's start with the WNBA 0:01:06.520 --> 0:01:09.720 where it was a buzzworthy weekend and we're talking all 0:01:09.800 --> 0:01:13.200 kinds of buzz buzzer beaters, waiver wire buzz and the 0:01:13.280 --> 0:01:16.720 soundar phones kept making After the latest incident involving the 0:01:16.760 --> 0:01:21.000 Indiana fever. Let's start positive, shall we with the best 0:01:21.160 --> 0:01:24.800 kind of buzz A buzzer beater. Chelsea Gray had two 0:01:24.840 --> 0:01:27.200 of them to help her Las Vegas Aces to come 0:01:27.240 --> 0:01:30.560 from behind win on Thursday. The point God took advantage 0:01:30.560 --> 0:01:32.760 of mistakes made by Fever guard Caitlin Clark in the 0:01:32.800 --> 0:01:36.679 final moments of regulation and overtime to work her magic. First, 0:01:36.760 --> 0:01:39.120 with seven seconds left in regulation and the Fever up 0:01:39.160 --> 0:01:42.479 by three, Clark missed two free throws, allowing Gray's buzzer 0:01:42.520 --> 0:01:46.039 beating tray to force overtime. Then, in the dying seconds 0:01:46.080 --> 0:01:48.080 of ot, with the Fever up by just a point, 0:01:48.400 --> 0:01:51.640 Clark attempted to pass the ball inside, but Asia Wilson 0:01:51.640 --> 0:01:53.680 deflected it up and snagged it out of the air, 0:01:53.800 --> 0:01:56.440 sending it ahead to Gray, to Jackie Young, back to Gray, 0:01:56.640 --> 0:01:58.920 who hit another buzzer beating three pointer to win the 0:01:58.960 --> 0:02:03.120 game eighty six eighty four. The back and forth the drama. 0:02:03.480 --> 0:02:06.800 This game ruled so hard. I hope you all caught 0:02:06.800 --> 0:02:07.480 it live too. 0:02:08.280 --> 0:02:08.480 More. 0:02:08.600 --> 0:02:12.480 WNBA Saturday's game between the Indiana Fever and Chicago Sky 0:02:12.800 --> 0:02:14.519 didn't rule quite so hard. 0:02:14.760 --> 0:02:16.200 Some real highs and lows. 0:02:16.919 --> 0:02:18.880 I think we all can agree that on court drama 0:02:18.919 --> 0:02:21.520 stealing attention away from good hoops just isn't what the 0:02:21.600 --> 0:02:22.600 w needs right now. 0:02:23.280 --> 0:02:25.520 So let's start with the highs and the good hoops. 0:02:25.840 --> 0:02:28.280 The Indiana Fever won the game ninety to eighty six, 0:02:28.320 --> 0:02:31.080 with Kelsey Mitchell scoring a game high twenty seven points 0:02:31.120 --> 0:02:33.639 and setting a record in the process. Mitchell has now 0:02:33.639 --> 0:02:37.080 scored at least twenty points in sixteen straight games, breaking 0:02:37.080 --> 0:02:40.600 the WNBA's single season record. Mitchell's currently second in the 0:02:40.639 --> 0:02:42.880 league in points per game with twenty four point two, 0:02:43.080 --> 0:02:47.239 behind only Asia Wilson's twenty six point three. On to 0:02:47.360 --> 0:02:51.000 the lows and the aforementioned drama, just minutes into the 0:02:51.040 --> 0:02:53.800 first quarter, the Sky's dj A Carrington came down hard 0:02:53.840 --> 0:02:56.680 on the Fever Sophie Cunningham, with contact to the neck 0:02:56.720 --> 0:02:59.720 and face, resulting in a flagrant too foul and ejection 0:02:59.720 --> 0:03:02.720 for Carrington. The ref cited her wind up and follow 0:03:02.760 --> 0:03:05.880 through as the reason for the foul upgrade. Cunningham started 0:03:05.880 --> 0:03:08.200 to come at Carrington after the foul, but was held back. 0:03:08.720 --> 0:03:11.200 Shortly after being sent to the locker room, Carrington took 0:03:11.240 --> 0:03:14.360 to her Threads account, writing white privilege in all caps 0:03:14.600 --> 0:03:18.320 and tagging the Fevers account. Later, she posted eight twenty 0:03:18.360 --> 0:03:21.520 three with a smiley face, the date the team's next meet. 0:03:21.560 --> 0:03:21.800 Again. 0:03:22.880 --> 0:03:25.600 Later in the game, in the third quarter, Caitlin Clark 0:03:25.680 --> 0:03:28.600 made contact with an official out of bounds along the baseline, 0:03:28.680 --> 0:03:30.840 though it appeared that a bump from the sky Natasha 0:03:30.880 --> 0:03:33.600 Cloud might have changed Clark's momentum ahead of that contact. 0:03:34.040 --> 0:03:35.960 Clark was awarded with a technical. 0:03:35.560 --> 0:03:38.800 Foul in game, her eighth of the season, which would 0:03:38.840 --> 0:03:42.120 have resulted in an automatic one game suspension, but after 0:03:42.160 --> 0:03:45.480 the game concluded, the league rescinded Clark's technical, meaning she's 0:03:45.520 --> 0:03:47.280 now back at just seven on the season and can 0:03:47.280 --> 0:03:49.160 play in the Fevers game against the New York Liberty 0:03:49.200 --> 0:03:52.480 on Tuesday and Indy now as expected. Before the game 0:03:52.520 --> 0:03:56.000 was even over, the outrage machine regarding Carrington and Cunningham 0:03:56.040 --> 0:03:59.840 had started, with some folks claiming Carrington was targeting Cunningham 0:04:00.000 --> 0:04:02.560 as a result of her recent remarks about trans exclusion. 0:04:03.160 --> 0:04:06.520 Others celebrated the hard foul on Cunningham. There were calls 0:04:06.560 --> 0:04:08.920 for the police to monitor games. There was lots of 0:04:09.000 --> 0:04:11.920 racist rhetoric and a whole lot of use of the word. 0:04:11.760 --> 0:04:13.080 Thug in comments. 0:04:13.920 --> 0:04:16.760 Now, I didn't agree with Carrington posting white privilege, but 0:04:17.080 --> 0:04:19.279 I don't know if she was referring to the flagrant call, 0:04:19.680 --> 0:04:22.159 which was the same call Cunningham got for a similar 0:04:22.240 --> 0:04:25.480 foul on J. C. Sheldon last year, or if Carrington 0:04:25.560 --> 0:04:28.480 was frustrated that Cunningham and Sheldon were both ejected on 0:04:28.480 --> 0:04:31.400 that play while Cunningham wasn't ejected for starting to come 0:04:31.440 --> 0:04:34.960 after her on this play. Either way, the cycle of 0:04:35.000 --> 0:04:40.400 outrages back, and it's exhausting and so predictable, and hopefully 0:04:40.440 --> 0:04:42.360 we'll be over soon because I want to get back 0:04:42.360 --> 0:04:45.719 to the basketball and the thrill of never ever knowing 0:04:45.720 --> 0:04:47.200 what you might see on a given day in the 0:04:47.360 --> 0:04:51.440 w Look no further than the Minnesota Lynx. On Thursday, 0:04:51.520 --> 0:04:53.920 the league leading Links saw their ten game win streak 0:04:53.920 --> 0:04:56.120 come to an end with an eighty nine eighty two 0:04:56.160 --> 0:04:58.880 loss to the middle of the pack Kelsey plumbless Los 0:04:58.920 --> 0:05:02.120 Angeles Sparks. After the game Link's head coach and friend 0:05:02.160 --> 0:05:04.560 of the show Cheryl Reeve didn't mince words. 0:05:04.920 --> 0:05:07.520 Take a listen but on the perimeter or did it 0:05:07.560 --> 0:05:10.080 feel kind of like the every player at every position 0:05:11.440 --> 0:05:14.720 was terrible? Every player that played in the game at 0:05:14.720 --> 0:05:17.360 every position. Y'all. 0:05:17.400 --> 0:05:19.680 I was over four hundred miles away, and I was 0:05:19.760 --> 0:05:22.360 still worried that Reeve was talking to me too when 0:05:22.400 --> 0:05:25.679 she said that. Lucky for the Links and Cheryl Reeves 0:05:25.720 --> 0:05:28.640 Sanity Minnesota bounce back with a big ninety eight eighty 0:05:28.680 --> 0:05:31.480 seven win against the Las Vegas Aces on Saturday, paced 0:05:31.520 --> 0:05:34.440 by rookie phenom Olivia Miles, who had twenty six points 0:05:34.440 --> 0:05:37.600 and seven assists, and Nafisa Collier who added twenty two 0:05:37.600 --> 0:05:41.440 points and six rebounds. A busy weekend for Minnesota ended 0:05:41.480 --> 0:05:43.800 on Sunday with a one oh three ninety win over 0:05:43.800 --> 0:05:47.440 the Dallas Wings, powered by Kayla McBride and her WNBA 0:05:47.600 --> 0:05:51.559 record breaking ten made three pointers. Her forty three points 0:05:51.680 --> 0:05:54.599 led the way for Minnesota, and Olivia Miles added twenty 0:05:54.600 --> 0:05:58.039 points thirteen assists. By the way, which nickname are we 0:05:58.080 --> 0:05:58.479 going for? 0:05:58.480 --> 0:05:59.120 For Miles? 0:05:59.400 --> 0:06:02.640 The Show and Tour by Cheryl Miller The Spectacle a 0:06:02.720 --> 0:06:06.000 nod to her goggles as well or her favorite magic 0:06:06.120 --> 0:06:10.520 Miles more WNBA. On Thursday, the New York Liberty waived 0:06:10.520 --> 0:06:13.080 Benigel Lannie Hamilton, the move coming just a few days 0:06:13.080 --> 0:06:15.760 after the league's trade deadline. It was a blow for 0:06:15.839 --> 0:06:18.360 Liberty fans. Laney Hamilton had been with the team since 0:06:18.360 --> 0:06:20.599 twenty twenty one and was a key piece in the 0:06:20.600 --> 0:06:24.240 franchise's twenty twenty four WNBA title win, but she's been 0:06:24.240 --> 0:06:26.839 in a reduced role this season, playing in just seventeen 0:06:26.880 --> 0:06:29.119 of thirty two games under new coach Chris de Marco. 0:06:29.600 --> 0:06:31.960 With the cap rooms she freed up, The Liberty signed 0:06:31.960 --> 0:06:35.799 developmental player Marine Photos to a multi year deal. Potuks 0:06:35.800 --> 0:06:38.000 played twenty two minutes in the Liberty's one to eleven 0:06:38.040 --> 0:06:40.719 seventy one route of the Aces on Sunday. The Aces 0:06:40.800 --> 0:06:43.400 rested Wilson, Young and Gray in that second half of 0:06:43.400 --> 0:06:46.120 a grueling back to back for the squad. Marine Johannes 0:06:46.120 --> 0:06:49.040 took advantage, scoring a career high twenty seven points, including 0:06:49.080 --> 0:06:51.080 seven three pointers for the Libs in the win. 0:06:51.720 --> 0:06:53.120 One more Liberty. 0:06:52.720 --> 0:06:55.120 Note this weekend, Rebecca Allen announced this will be her 0:06:55.200 --> 0:06:57.680 final season in the w This is her eleventh year 0:06:57.680 --> 0:06:59.640 in the league, though she started her pro career in 0:06:59.680 --> 0:07:03.600 two nine in her native Australia. As for Laney Hamilton, 0:07:03.800 --> 0:07:06.880 she landed with the surging Washington Mystics, though she wasn't 0:07:06.880 --> 0:07:09.080 in uniform just yet when the Mystics played the Phoenix 0:07:09.160 --> 0:07:12.480 Mercury on Sunday, a game that Washington won ninety five 0:07:12.600 --> 0:07:15.800 seventy five behind nineteen points and eleven rebounds from Shakira 0:07:15.840 --> 0:07:19.640 Austin and nineteen points from Sonya Citron. In a corresponding 0:07:19.640 --> 0:07:22.280 move to the Laney Hamilton pickup, the Mystics waived rookie 0:07:22.320 --> 0:07:25.200 guard in front of the show, Rory Harmon, but ESPN 0:07:25.280 --> 0:07:27.320 is reporting that the team does hope to resign her 0:07:27.360 --> 0:07:31.440 as a developmental player. The w action continues tonight, with 0:07:31.480 --> 0:07:34.440 the Atlanta Dream hosting the Toronto Tempo at eight pm Eastern, 0:07:34.680 --> 0:07:38.160 followed by the always Atmospheric matchup between the Seattle Storm 0:07:38.160 --> 0:07:42.480 and Chicago Sky at ten pm Eastern. One final WNBA 0:07:42.560 --> 0:07:46.880 news item. The league's players association, the WNBPA, released a 0:07:46.920 --> 0:07:49.640 statement on Friday, just over two weeks after Fever guard 0:07:49.680 --> 0:07:53.000 Sophie Cunningham made comments about transgender athletes in an ESPN 0:07:53.040 --> 0:07:57.560 profile sparking rallies before games, debates on news shows, and 0:07:57.600 --> 0:08:00.880 two former MNBA players claiming they now so identify as 0:08:00.920 --> 0:08:04.600 women and our quote unquote declaring for the WNBA's next 0:08:04.680 --> 0:08:08.480 draft a truly next level display of shit, housery and buffoonery. 0:08:09.240 --> 0:08:12.679 The wnbpa's statement asserts that the organization will not allow 0:08:12.720 --> 0:08:14.840 its players to be used as political pawns. 0:08:15.160 --> 0:08:15.440 Quote. 0:08:15.520 --> 0:08:19.360 We embrace justice, equity, diversity, and inclusion. Those are the 0:08:19.440 --> 0:08:21.960 values that unite this union and allowed to protect women's 0:08:21.960 --> 0:08:26.280 sports while creating transformational change. Hate abuse and demonization of 0:08:26.320 --> 0:08:29.800 any person or group of people, including transgender people, only 0:08:29.840 --> 0:08:32.840 fuel fear, division and harm. We will continue to have 0:08:32.920 --> 0:08:35.800 hard conversations, but we will not be used as political 0:08:35.840 --> 0:08:39.440 pawns end quote. One day after that statement was released, 0:08:39.480 --> 0:08:42.880 Commissioner Kathy Engelbert sent a memo thanking teams for responding 0:08:42.920 --> 0:08:45.480 to questions from the media about trans inclusion with quote 0:08:45.480 --> 0:08:48.920 thoughtfulness and professionalism, and telling teams that the topic will 0:08:48.960 --> 0:08:51.600 be discussed by a task force of team presidents and 0:08:51.640 --> 0:08:55.120 general managers at a previously scheduled meeting this week. And 0:08:55.160 --> 0:08:56.720 I just want to say, at first, I kind of 0:08:56.720 --> 0:08:58.480 push back on the thought of them having a task 0:08:58.520 --> 0:09:02.040 force meeting about an issued it frankly isn't an issue. 0:09:02.400 --> 0:09:03.840 But at the same time, I do think that the 0:09:03.920 --> 0:09:07.160 WNBA should have a unified, thoughtful and intentional approach to 0:09:07.240 --> 0:09:10.360 this raging discourse. So if talking about it in this 0:09:10.400 --> 0:09:13.200 task meeting helps us achieve that, then I'm. 0:09:13.080 --> 0:09:13.560 All for it. 0:09:13.960 --> 0:09:16.880 I really liked what WNBA veteran Sidney Colson said on 0:09:16.920 --> 0:09:20.360 her podcast Unsupervised about this issue. Here's a little bit 0:09:20.400 --> 0:09:22.160 of sid and co host Teresa Plaisance. 0:09:23.160 --> 0:09:27.720 We were a league built on speaking up, protesting, talking 0:09:27.760 --> 0:09:31.160 about things that were wrong, not worrying about consequences of 0:09:31.200 --> 0:09:34.560 said actions, because actually we did things all together as 0:09:34.600 --> 0:09:36.599 a league, and let me remind you it was a 0:09:36.600 --> 0:09:39.520 about seventy five to eighty percent black woman league at 0:09:39.520 --> 0:09:41.880 this time when these things were going on, we spoke 0:09:41.920 --> 0:09:46.280 out about what was problematic, right, and this was when 0:09:46.400 --> 0:09:48.559 not as many people were paying attention to the WNBA 0:09:49.160 --> 0:09:51.520 or even caring as much, But it didn't matter because 0:09:52.040 --> 0:09:54.040 we were going to say what we had to say. 0:09:54.440 --> 0:09:56.480 And if we pay attention, like I can bring this 0:09:56.520 --> 0:10:03.000 back to statistically, in America America, when you're listening, how 0:10:03.080 --> 0:10:07.080 many the ninety black women that did not vote for Trump. 0:10:08.080 --> 0:10:13.080 Then is not coincidental in our league, in this league, 0:10:13.480 --> 0:10:15.600 in my mind, and this is how people need to 0:10:15.640 --> 0:10:18.040 look at it. If we have a league that was 0:10:18.080 --> 0:10:21.280 built on black women and we still have a league 0:10:21.280 --> 0:10:25.640 that is still majority black women, if black queer women 0:10:25.800 --> 0:10:29.040 are not excluding people from shit, then none of us are. 0:10:29.040 --> 0:10:32.480 Absolutely will linked to the full clip in the show 0:10:32.480 --> 0:10:37.280 notes to the NWSL. Gotham FC strengthened its position at 0:10:37.280 --> 0:10:39.240 the top of the NWSL table with a one nil 0:10:39.280 --> 0:10:41.680 win over the San Diego Wave Friday night in New Jersey, 0:10:42.120 --> 0:10:45.079 and to make it even sweeter, it was Gotham's Jaden Shaw, 0:10:45.400 --> 0:10:48.920 who began her NWSL career with the Wave, who scored 0:10:48.960 --> 0:10:52.240 the game winner against her former team. Several members of 0:10:52.280 --> 0:10:54.560 the ted Lasso cast were in the stands for that game, 0:10:54.640 --> 0:10:57.640 including Jason Sadegas, Hannah Wattingham, and friend of the show 0:10:57.640 --> 0:11:02.280 Brendan hunt more nwas The North Carolina Courage defeated the 0:11:02.320 --> 0:11:04.960 second place Washington Spirit four to three on Saturday in 0:11:05.000 --> 0:11:07.400 a barn burner. The Courage got off to a fast 0:11:07.400 --> 0:11:10.720 start with Ashley Sanchez scoring an absolute gem in the 0:11:10.720 --> 0:11:13.760 second minute, followed by two goals from Evelyn Ej in 0:11:13.800 --> 0:11:17.240 the ninth and fifteenth minutes. Ej now tied with Trinity 0:11:17.320 --> 0:11:20.160 Rodman and tem Wishewinga for third in the Golden Boot race, 0:11:20.200 --> 0:11:23.120 by the way, behind just Barbara Banda and Ashley Sanchez. 0:11:23.760 --> 0:11:26.559 Speaking of Rodman, she and Sophia cantorre scored in the 0:11:26.600 --> 0:11:28.600 first five minutes of the second half to start a 0:11:28.679 --> 0:11:32.439 Spirit comeback, and Rebecca Bernal recorded the equalizer in the 0:11:32.559 --> 0:11:36.280 ninetieth minute, but the Courage refused to let the Spirit 0:11:36.360 --> 0:11:39.440 steal momentum for good. In the fifth minute of stoppage time, 0:11:39.520 --> 0:11:42.600 Courage captain center back Natalie Jacobs scored to give her 0:11:42.600 --> 0:11:47.240 team the w and accompanying three points more NWSL. The 0:11:47.320 --> 0:11:50.360 league's heat policy is back in the spotlight after Saturday's 0:11:50.360 --> 0:11:53.280 match between the Denver Summit and Utah Royals in Colorado 0:11:53.400 --> 0:11:56.360 was rescheduled from two pm Mountain time to eight pm 0:11:56.440 --> 0:11:59.199 mountain time. The league announced the change on Friday night, 0:11:59.360 --> 0:12:02.000 marking it improved from last season, when a game between 0:12:02.000 --> 0:12:04.319 the Kansas City Current and Orlando Pride was put on 0:12:04.360 --> 0:12:07.560 a same day delay, ultimately kicking off about four hours 0:12:07.600 --> 0:12:10.920 late and sparking conversations about why the league hadn't postponed 0:12:10.920 --> 0:12:14.160 the game in advance. Denver went on to win Saturday's contest, 0:12:14.280 --> 0:12:16.280 though it came down to the final few minutes, with 0:12:16.360 --> 0:12:19.000 Denver's Janine Sonas scoring the game winner in the fourth 0:12:19.040 --> 0:12:22.480 minute of second half stoppage time to cycling and the 0:12:22.520 --> 0:12:25.600 conclusion of the Tour de France FEM. Dutch cyclist Demi 0:12:25.640 --> 0:12:28.520 Volloring won her second career Tour de France title on Sunday, 0:12:28.720 --> 0:12:32.280 defeating rival Kasia nuodoma Fini with a dominant performance in 0:12:32.320 --> 0:12:35.000 the ninth and final stage. The two riders entered the 0:12:35.040 --> 0:12:38.319 day just eight seconds apart, but Vollering separated herself from 0:12:38.400 --> 0:12:41.079 Neodoma Finni in the fourth and final ascent and went 0:12:41.080 --> 0:12:43.360 on to win the overall title by one minute and 0:12:43.440 --> 0:12:47.040 eighteen seconds. Vollering, whose first title came in twenty twenty three, 0:12:47.160 --> 0:12:49.160 is now the first person to win two Tour de 0:12:49.240 --> 0:12:51.840 France FEM titles in the modern era of the event. 0:12:52.400 --> 0:12:57.440 Chape We got to take a break when we come back, 0:12:57.600 --> 0:13:01.679 A thoughtful, sometimes spicy conversation on the WNBA at thirty 0:13:01.920 --> 0:13:13.360 with Cheryl Swoops, t Cha Pennicero, and Donna Orander, Welcome 0:13:13.360 --> 0:13:15.720 back slices. Before I send you to my convo with 0:13:15.800 --> 0:13:20.280 three wogs, a quick reminder on their bona fides. Cheryl 0:13:20.280 --> 0:13:22.120 Swoops was the first player to be signed in the 0:13:22.240 --> 0:13:26.000 w IS. A three time WNBA MVP, four time WNBA Champion, 0:13:26.040 --> 0:13:28.480 and three time Olympic Gold medalist. She was elected to 0:13:28.480 --> 0:13:30.440 the Naismith Hall of Fame in twenty sixteen and the 0:13:30.440 --> 0:13:33.280 Women's Basketball Hall of Fame in twenty seventeen. Now co 0:13:33.360 --> 0:13:36.400 host of levels to this right here on iHeart Women's Sports. 0:13:36.920 --> 0:13:40.280 T Cha Pennachero was a WNBA champ with the Sacramento Monarchs, 0:13:40.440 --> 0:13:43.280 a four time w all Star, seven time w assists leader, 0:13:43.320 --> 0:13:45.959 and third all time in career assists. Inducted into the 0:13:45.960 --> 0:13:48.920 Women's Basketball Hall of Fame in twenty nineteen, she's continuing 0:13:48.960 --> 0:13:52.760 her impact as an agent for current w players. Donna 0:13:52.880 --> 0:13:55.720 Orander was a former president of the WNBA, now the 0:13:55.760 --> 0:13:58.360 co founder and commissioner of the Upshot League. An All 0:13:58.400 --> 0:14:01.080 American hooper at Queen's College, she played professionally for all 0:14:01.080 --> 0:14:04.800 three seasons of the WBL Women's Pro Basketball League. Now, 0:14:04.840 --> 0:14:06.800 just a note in case it's not clear while listening 0:14:07.000 --> 0:14:08.800 that Cheryl had to leave the panel a little early 0:14:08.840 --> 0:14:10.880 to get to another event. So when you hear us 0:14:10.880 --> 0:14:13.720 say Mike drop, we meant it. She dropped that mic 0:14:13.760 --> 0:14:17.040 and scurry to her next event. All right, here's our conversation. 0:14:19.480 --> 0:14:23.720 We are here celebrating thirty years of the WNBA. 0:14:24.360 --> 0:14:25.760 Really kind of unbelievable. 0:14:26.280 --> 0:14:28.320 Thank you for bringing your greatness into this room with 0:14:28.400 --> 0:14:31.119 us and helping create the foundation for this league. 0:14:30.840 --> 0:14:32.840 That we now get to celebrate at thirty. 0:14:33.440 --> 0:14:34.800 And it feels like right now, so many of the 0:14:34.800 --> 0:14:37.680 conversations I'm having are holding two things at once. The 0:14:37.720 --> 0:14:40.920 celebration of the investment and the media coverage and the 0:14:41.000 --> 0:14:44.320 excitement and everything else in the growing patents of the 0:14:44.440 --> 0:14:46.520 w at thirty and some of the issues that have 0:14:46.600 --> 0:14:48.680 always played to women and some of the new issues 0:14:48.880 --> 0:14:51.760 that come up because of the resulting interest and enthusiasm 0:14:51.800 --> 0:14:53.840 about the league. So with that in mind, we're going 0:14:53.920 --> 0:14:56.480 to celebrate and we're going to make some room to 0:14:56.560 --> 0:14:59.000 continue pushing for even better. I want to start with 0:14:59.040 --> 0:15:01.120 a little then and now and talk about the beginning. 0:15:01.160 --> 0:15:03.680 What's the same and what's changed since that thirty years 0:15:03.720 --> 0:15:06.280 ago start? So what's an issue from twenty five thirty 0:15:06.360 --> 0:15:08.880 years ago early in the league that we're still dealing 0:15:08.920 --> 0:15:09.320 with now. 0:15:09.400 --> 0:15:13.000 Tisha, well, thank you all for being here today, first 0:15:13.000 --> 0:15:16.800 of all, and I mean, obviously it's night and day. 0:15:17.120 --> 0:15:19.520 I feel like we have taken so many steps forward. 0:15:19.520 --> 0:15:24.720 There's obviously still so much room for growth. I would 0:15:24.880 --> 0:15:28.800 say the salaries are much better. But one thing that 0:15:30.400 --> 0:15:33.480 I actually miss is like really true fans that love 0:15:33.560 --> 0:15:36.520 the game and respect the game and respect women. And 0:15:36.600 --> 0:15:39.960 I feel like today has become a little bit political. 0:15:40.120 --> 0:15:43.520 So I'm kind of missed the OG fans, the ones 0:15:43.560 --> 0:15:46.640 that actually recognize me. No Cheryl is no. All of 0:15:46.680 --> 0:15:49.120 our stats and everything, and so that's one thing that 0:15:49.200 --> 0:15:50.960 I missed the most about the w. 0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:53.720 It's like a hipster band. They were there first. 0:15:54.040 --> 0:15:55.760 Now the new people found out how great it is, 0:15:55.800 --> 0:15:57.440 and you're like, let me teach you some things, young 0:15:57.480 --> 0:16:01.040 and about what you're watching. Share what's up that we're 0:16:01.080 --> 0:16:03.320 still dealing with to this day that maybe twenty five 0:16:03.400 --> 0:16:05.560 thirty years ago we were frustrated by. 0:16:05.480 --> 0:16:08.640 As well, Oh gosh, referring. 0:16:10.920 --> 0:16:15.000 No like for real reffing was bad back then and 0:16:15.080 --> 0:16:16.080 it's bad today. 0:16:16.360 --> 0:16:19.240 And let me just add one thing. They are human, 0:16:20.200 --> 0:16:25.080 So for now, right for now and hate them just 0:16:25.080 --> 0:16:25.960 as much conversation. 0:16:26.440 --> 0:16:31.040 But sometimes I think we as athletes, but especially fans, 0:16:31.120 --> 0:16:33.960 we tend to forget that sometimes right, So, yeah, they're 0:16:33.960 --> 0:16:38.000 gonna make mistakes, but for the most part, the refien 0:16:38.320 --> 0:16:40.160 has always been what it is. 0:16:40.440 --> 0:16:42.960 That's a great answer, especially Saince you can't be fined 0:16:43.000 --> 0:16:43.480 for that now. 0:16:43.640 --> 0:16:46.160 I fall right because I had so much stuff I 0:16:46.160 --> 0:16:49.000 wanted to say back, but girl, my check was not 0:16:49.040 --> 0:16:50.960 that big to begin a trine. 0:16:50.720 --> 0:16:52.120 So I was like not doing that. 0:16:52.320 --> 0:16:56.200 Statute of limitations has passed on you being fined for criticizac. 0:16:56.360 --> 0:16:58.800 I think I still have one of her overdue fines 0:16:58.800 --> 0:17:01.960 in my shore. I think I kept it as a 0:17:02.000 --> 0:17:05.600 momento of my experience during the league. It might even 0:17:05.640 --> 0:17:06.400 be more than one. 0:17:06.520 --> 0:17:06.959 I don't know. 0:17:07.080 --> 0:17:09.000 Down't you have something from twenty five thirty years ago, 0:17:09.000 --> 0:17:11.840 as you're helping start and lead this league that was 0:17:11.840 --> 0:17:13.920 a problem then that you say we still haven't quite 0:17:13.920 --> 0:17:14.280 fixed that. 0:17:16.240 --> 0:17:18.800 First of all, the degree to which things have evolved, 0:17:19.640 --> 0:17:21.480 it's like kind of having a baby, right Like it 0:17:21.640 --> 0:17:23.480 like when you have one, you're like you're never gonna 0:17:23.520 --> 0:17:25.240 have one ever again because it hurts so much. And 0:17:25.240 --> 0:17:26.720 then the other babies grow up and they're kind of 0:17:26.720 --> 0:17:28.600 fun and you're like, oh, I'll do it again, and 0:17:28.680 --> 0:17:31.200 it's really okay, Right, it's really okay. 0:17:31.200 --> 0:17:32.960 I get to that bar we're I'll share to do 0:17:33.000 --> 0:17:35.800 anyone and done, and I was like, no, we're good. 0:17:35.880 --> 0:17:36.800 In some ways, it's like that. 0:17:36.880 --> 0:17:39.320 I mean, the pain of growing up, birthing this league 0:17:39.359 --> 0:17:43.159 through the early years was real, and yet today the 0:17:43.359 --> 0:17:47.000 joy in having the benefits of all of that pain 0:17:47.240 --> 0:17:51.760 is also real. But the opportunity that still lies ahead 0:17:52.920 --> 0:17:54.960 is also real. So all three of those things, as 0:17:54.960 --> 0:17:58.320 you said, exist together in the same kind of frame. 0:17:58.800 --> 0:17:59.879 I like the happier. 0:18:00.840 --> 0:18:03.280 Yeah, well, so I want to ask for some positive 0:18:03.320 --> 0:18:04.280 memories from back then. 0:18:04.359 --> 0:18:07.440 We'll get to maybe some hiccups, but I want to 0:18:07.480 --> 0:18:08.119 hear about something. 0:18:08.240 --> 0:18:10.480 I mean, a lot of those new fans that Tisa 0:18:10.480 --> 0:18:12.399 mentioned don't know that the early days of the w 0:18:12.640 --> 0:18:17.000 were massive sellouts, huge crowds, so much enthusiasm, celebrities showing up. 0:18:17.040 --> 0:18:20.840 I mean, it was big at the beginning before some 0:18:21.119 --> 0:18:24.400 executives with intention tried to bury it. And we are 0:18:24.800 --> 0:18:26.720 growing like a weed now into a flower. 0:18:27.000 --> 0:18:27.600 So we're good. 0:18:27.600 --> 0:18:30.440 But let's go back to the early days, some crazy 0:18:30.440 --> 0:18:34.200 celebrity interactions, some awesome sponsorship thing that you did, something 0:18:34.240 --> 0:18:36.159 that felt very big at the time. 0:18:36.000 --> 0:18:39.080 Because of the w existing I can start. 0:18:39.840 --> 0:18:43.480 The first WNBA All Star was the Medicine Square Garden 0:18:43.920 --> 0:18:46.000 and Weed the Euston sing the national anthing. 0:18:47.359 --> 0:18:48.840 Yeah, I'm jealous. 0:18:48.960 --> 0:18:51.600 Wow, I mean that to me, there was like a 0:18:51.680 --> 0:18:53.800 moment that I'll never forget. Even though when they announced 0:18:53.800 --> 0:18:55.639 me they call me Tina. I was like Tina. 0:18:57.080 --> 0:19:00.679 I was like, Na, which is crazy. You know, they 0:19:00.800 --> 0:19:03.679 say all black people look alike, but I don't know 0:19:03.680 --> 0:19:04.640 how they got you and Tina. 0:19:04.800 --> 0:19:07.520 Yeah, no, I think he was t shirt but he 0:19:07.800 --> 0:19:09.640 just yeah, he's like that's not right. 0:19:09.720 --> 0:19:10.359 That can't be right. 0:19:10.440 --> 0:19:13.560 It must be Tino the name right, which was already complicated, 0:19:13.600 --> 0:19:15.360 but I would at least get the first name right. 0:19:15.440 --> 0:19:17.720 But anyways, Whitney, you ston to me, it was like, 0:19:18.240 --> 0:19:21.560 you know, at the time, my favorite artist, so to 0:19:21.640 --> 0:19:25.080 have her perform at the very first All Star game 0:19:25.320 --> 0:19:27.680 and Medicine Square Garden and you can't get any better 0:19:27.720 --> 0:19:27.919 than that. 0:19:28.040 --> 0:19:29.880 You were like, we made it, we made we made 0:19:29.880 --> 0:19:30.680 it that we didn't know. 0:19:30.680 --> 0:19:32.960 I mean, yeah, when you can look at your paycheck. 0:19:34.080 --> 0:19:36.840 Cheryl what about you you have so many Well I 0:19:37.040 --> 0:19:40.240 obviously was going to say that one. And the thing 0:19:40.400 --> 0:19:43.679 is like they kept it a surprise. It was like 0:19:43.720 --> 0:19:47.280