Speaker 1: Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where we've been
Speaker 1: replaying Chelsea Grace pair of buzzer beating three pointers on
Speaker 1: a loop since Thursday.
Speaker 2: It's Monday, August.
Speaker 1: Tenth, and on today's show, we're bringing you my fantastic
Speaker 1: All Star Weekend conversation with WNBA legends Cheryl Swoops and
Speaker 1: Tisha Pennicero and former President of the w NOW commission
Speaker 1: of the Upshot League, Donna orander I sat down with
Speaker 1: the trio in Chicago for an event benefiting the v Foundation,
Speaker 1: which raises money for cancer research, so far granting an
Speaker 1: incredible four hundred and fifty eight million dollars in counting Cheryl, Tisha,
Speaker 1: Donna and I discussed the highs and lows of the
Speaker 1: early days of the WNBA, how they tackled the job
Speaker 1: of commissioner, and why the league and players need to
Speaker 1: be united in taking charge of the narrative around the
Speaker 1: w Plus, the Tour de front Femme celebrates its first
Speaker 1: two time winner, Chelsea Daggers and taking an l from
Speaker 1: the One who Got Away. It's all coming out right
Speaker 1: after this Welcome back, Sligh, this Happy Monday. Here's what
Speaker 1: you need to know today. Let's start with the WNBA
Speaker 1: where it was a buzzworthy weekend and we're talking all
Speaker 1: kinds of buzz buzzer beaters, waiver wire buzz and the
Speaker 1: soundar phones kept making After the latest incident involving the
Speaker 1: Indiana fever. Let's start positive, shall we with the best
Speaker 1: kind of buzz A buzzer beater. Chelsea Gray had two
Speaker 1: of them to help her Las Vegas Aces to come
Speaker 1: from behind win on Thursday. The point God took advantage
Speaker 1: of mistakes made by Fever guard Caitlin Clark in the
Speaker 1: final moments of regulation and overtime to work her magic. First,
Speaker 1: with seven seconds left in regulation and the Fever up
Speaker 1: by three, Clark missed two free throws, allowing Gray's buzzer
Speaker 1: beating tray to force overtime. Then, in the dying seconds
Speaker 1: of ot, with the Fever up by just a point,
Speaker 1: Clark attempted to pass the ball inside, but Asia Wilson
Speaker 1: deflected it up and snagged it out of the air,
Speaker 1: sending it ahead to Gray, to Jackie Young, back to Gray,
Speaker 1: who hit another buzzer beating three pointer to win the
Speaker 1: game eighty six eighty four. The back and forth the drama.
Speaker 1: This game ruled so hard. I hope you all caught
Speaker 1: it live too.
Speaker 2: More.
Speaker 1: WNBA Saturday's game between the Indiana Fever and Chicago Sky
Speaker 1: didn't rule quite so hard.
Speaker 2: Some real highs and lows.
Speaker 1: I think we all can agree that on court drama
Speaker 1: stealing attention away from good hoops just isn't what the
Speaker 1: w needs right now.
Speaker 2: So let's start with the highs and the good hoops.
Speaker 1: The Indiana Fever won the game ninety to eighty six,
Speaker 1: with Kelsey Mitchell scoring a game high twenty seven points
Speaker 1: and setting a record in the process. Mitchell has now
Speaker 1: scored at least twenty points in sixteen straight games, breaking
Speaker 1: the WNBA's single season record. Mitchell's currently second in the
Speaker 1: league in points per game with twenty four point two,
Speaker 1: behind only Asia Wilson's twenty six point three. On to
Speaker 1: the lows and the aforementioned drama, just minutes into the
Speaker 1: first quarter, the Sky's dj A Carrington came down hard
Speaker 1: on the Fever Sophie Cunningham, with contact to the neck
Speaker 1: and face, resulting in a flagrant too foul and ejection
Speaker 1: for Carrington. The ref cited her wind up and follow
Speaker 1: through as the reason for the foul upgrade. Cunningham started
Speaker 1: to come at Carrington after the foul, but was held back.
Speaker 1: Shortly after being sent to the locker room, Carrington took
Speaker 1: to her Threads account, writing white privilege in all caps
Speaker 1: and tagging the Fevers account. Later, she posted eight twenty
Speaker 1: three with a smiley face, the date the team's next meet.
Speaker 2: Again.
Speaker 1: Later in the game, in the third quarter, Caitlin Clark
Speaker 1: made contact with an official out of bounds along the baseline,
Speaker 1: though it appeared that a bump from the sky Natasha
Speaker 1: Cloud might have changed Clark's momentum ahead of that contact.
Speaker 2: Clark was awarded with a technical.
Speaker 1: Foul in game, her eighth of the season, which would
Speaker 1: have resulted in an automatic one game suspension, but after
Speaker 1: the game concluded, the league rescinded Clark's technical, meaning she's
Speaker 1: now back at just seven on the season and can
Speaker 1: play in the Fevers game against the New York Liberty
Speaker 1: on Tuesday and Indy now as expected. Before the game
Speaker 1: was even over, the outrage machine regarding Carrington and Cunningham
Speaker 1: had started, with some folks claiming Carrington was targeting Cunningham
Speaker 1: as a result of her recent remarks about trans exclusion.
Speaker 1: Others celebrated the hard foul on Cunningham. There were calls
Speaker 1: for the police to monitor games. There was lots of
Speaker 1: racist rhetoric and a whole lot of use of the word.
Speaker 2: Thug in comments.
Speaker 1: Now, I didn't agree with Carrington posting white privilege, but
Speaker 1: I don't know if she was referring to the flagrant call,
Speaker 1: which was the same call Cunningham got for a similar
Speaker 1: foul on J. C. Sheldon last year, or if Carrington
Speaker 1: was frustrated that Cunningham and Sheldon were both ejected on
Speaker 1: that play while Cunningham wasn't ejected for starting to come
Speaker 1: after her on this play. Either way, the cycle of
Speaker 1: outrages back, and it's exhausting and so predictable, and hopefully
Speaker 1: we'll be over soon because I want to get back
Speaker 1: to the basketball and the thrill of never ever knowing
Speaker 1: what you might see on a given day in the
Speaker 1: w Look no further than the Minnesota Lynx. On Thursday,
Speaker 1: the league leading Links saw their ten game win streak
Speaker 1: come to an end with an eighty nine eighty two
Speaker 1: loss to the middle of the pack Kelsey plumbless Los
Speaker 1: Angeles Sparks. After the game Link's head coach and friend
Speaker 1: of the show Cheryl Reeve didn't mince words.
Speaker 2: Take a listen but on the perimeter or did it
Speaker 2: feel kind of like the every player at every position
Speaker 2: was terrible? Every player that played in the game at
Speaker 2: every position. Y'all.
Speaker 1: I was over four hundred miles away, and I was
Speaker 1: still worried that Reeve was talking to me too when
Speaker 1: she said that. Lucky for the Links and Cheryl Reeves
Speaker 1: Sanity Minnesota bounce back with a big ninety eight eighty
Speaker 1: seven win against the Las Vegas Aces on Saturday, paced
Speaker 1: by rookie phenom Olivia Miles, who had twenty six points
Speaker 1: and seven assists, and Nafisa Collier who added twenty two
Speaker 1: points and six rebounds. A busy weekend for Minnesota ended
Speaker 1: on Sunday with a one oh three ninety win over
Speaker 1: the Dallas Wings, powered by Kayla McBride and her WNBA
Speaker 1: record breaking ten made three pointers. Her forty three points
Speaker 1: led the way for Minnesota, and Olivia Miles added twenty
Speaker 1: points thirteen assists. By the way, which nickname are we
Speaker 1: going for?
Speaker 2: For Miles?
Speaker 1: The Show and Tour by Cheryl Miller The Spectacle a
Speaker 1: nod to her goggles as well or her favorite magic
Speaker 1: Miles more WNBA. On Thursday, the New York Liberty waived
Speaker 1: Benigel Lannie Hamilton, the move coming just a few days
Speaker 1: after the league's trade deadline. It was a blow for
Speaker 1: Liberty fans. Laney Hamilton had been with the team since
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one and was a key piece in the
Speaker 1: franchise's twenty twenty four WNBA title win, but she's been
Speaker 1: in a reduced role this season, playing in just seventeen
Speaker 1: of thirty two games under new coach Chris de Marco.
Speaker 1: With the cap rooms she freed up, The Liberty signed
Speaker 1: developmental player Marine Photos to a multi year deal. Potuks
Speaker 1: played twenty two minutes in the Liberty's one to eleven
Speaker 1: seventy one route of the Aces on Sunday. The Aces
Speaker 1: rested Wilson, Young and Gray in that second half of
Speaker 1: a grueling back to back for the squad. Marine Johannes
Speaker 1: took advantage, scoring a career high twenty seven points, including
Speaker 1: seven three pointers for the Libs in the win.
Speaker 2: One more Liberty.
Speaker 1: Note this weekend, Rebecca Allen announced this will be her
Speaker 1: final season in the w This is her eleventh year
Speaker 1: in the league, though she started her pro career in
Speaker 1: two nine in her native Australia. As for Laney Hamilton,
Speaker 1: she landed with the surging Washington Mystics, though she wasn't
Speaker 1: in uniform just yet when the Mystics played the Phoenix
Speaker 1: Mercury on Sunday, a game that Washington won ninety five
Speaker 1: seventy five behind nineteen points and eleven rebounds from Shakira
Speaker 1: Austin and nineteen points from Sonya Citron. In a corresponding
Speaker 1: move to the Laney Hamilton pickup, the Mystics waived rookie
Speaker 1: guard in front of the show, Rory Harmon, but ESPN
Speaker 1: is reporting that the team does hope to resign her
Speaker 1: as a developmental player. The w action continues tonight, with
Speaker 1: the Atlanta Dream hosting the Toronto Tempo at eight pm Eastern,
Speaker 1: followed by the always Atmospheric matchup between the Seattle Storm
Speaker 1: and Chicago Sky at ten pm Eastern. One final WNBA
Speaker 1: news item. The league's players association, the WNBPA, released a
Speaker 1: statement on Friday, just over two weeks after Fever guard
Speaker 1: Sophie Cunningham made comments about transgender athletes in an ESPN
Speaker 1: profile sparking rallies before games, debates on news shows, and
Speaker 1: two former MNBA players claiming they now so identify as
Speaker 1: women and our quote unquote declaring for the WNBA's next
Speaker 1: draft a truly next level display of shit, housery and buffoonery.
Speaker 1: The wnbpa's statement asserts that the organization will not allow
Speaker 1: its players to be used as political pawns.
Speaker 2: Quote.
Speaker 1: We embrace justice, equity, diversity, and inclusion. Those are the
Speaker 1: values that unite this union and allowed to protect women's
Speaker 1: sports while creating transformational change. Hate abuse and demonization of
Speaker 1: any person or group of people, including transgender people, only
Speaker 1: fuel fear, division and harm. We will continue to have
Speaker 1: hard conversations, but we will not be used as political
Speaker 1: pawns end quote. One day after that statement was released,
Speaker 1: Commissioner Kathy Engelbert sent a memo thanking teams for responding
Speaker 1: to questions from the media about trans inclusion with quote
Speaker 1: thoughtfulness and professionalism, and telling teams that the topic will
Speaker 1: be discussed by a task force of team presidents and
Speaker 1: general managers at a previously scheduled meeting this week. And
Speaker 1: I just want to say, at first, I kind of
Speaker 1: push back on the thought of them having a task
Speaker 1: force meeting about an issued it frankly isn't an issue.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, I do think that the
Speaker 1: WNBA should have a unified, thoughtful and intentional approach to
Speaker 1: this raging discourse. So if talking about it in this
Speaker 1: task meeting helps us achieve that, then I'm.
Speaker 3: All for it.
Speaker 1: I really liked what WNBA veteran Sidney Colson said on
Speaker 1: her podcast Unsupervised about this issue. Here's a little bit
Speaker 1: of sid and co host Teresa Plaisance.
Speaker 4: We were a league built on speaking up, protesting, talking
Speaker 4: about things that were wrong, not worrying about consequences of
Speaker 4: said actions, because actually we did things all together as
Speaker 4: a league, and let me remind you it was a
Speaker 4: about seventy five to eighty percent black woman league at
Speaker 4: this time when these things were going on, we spoke
Speaker 4: out about what was problematic, right, and this was when
Speaker 4: not as many people were paying attention to the WNBA
Speaker 4: or even caring as much, But it didn't matter because
Speaker 4: we were going to say what we had to say.
Speaker 4: And if we pay attention, like I can bring this
Speaker 4: back to statistically, in America America, when you're listening, how
Speaker 4: many the ninety black women that did not vote for Trump.
Speaker 4: Then is not coincidental in our league, in this league,
Speaker 4: in my mind, and this is how people need to
Speaker 4: look at it. If we have a league that was
Speaker 4: built on black women and we still have a league
Speaker 4: that is still majority black women, if black queer women
Speaker 4: are not excluding people from shit, then none of us are.
Speaker 1: Absolutely will linked to the full clip in the show
Speaker 1: notes to the NWSL. Gotham FC strengthened its position at
Speaker 1: the top of the NWSL table with a one nil
Speaker 1: win over the San Diego Wave Friday night in New Jersey,
Speaker 1: and to make it even sweeter, it was Gotham's Jaden Shaw,
Speaker 1: who began her NWSL career with the Wave, who scored
Speaker 1: the game winner against her former team. Several members of
Speaker 1: the ted Lasso cast were in the stands for that game,
Speaker 1: including Jason Sadegas, Hannah Wattingham, and friend of the show
Speaker 1: Brendan hunt more nwas The North Carolina Courage defeated the
Speaker 1: second place Washington Spirit four to three on Saturday in
Speaker 1: a barn burner. The Courage got off to a fast
Speaker 1: start with Ashley Sanchez scoring an absolute gem in the
Speaker 1: second minute, followed by two goals from Evelyn Ej in
Speaker 1: the ninth and fifteenth minutes. Ej now tied with Trinity
Speaker 1: Rodman and tem Wishewinga for third in the Golden Boot race,
Speaker 1: by the way, behind just Barbara Banda and Ashley Sanchez.
Speaker 1: Speaking of Rodman, she and Sophia cantorre scored in the
Speaker 1: first five minutes of the second half to start a
Speaker 1: Spirit comeback, and Rebecca Bernal recorded the equalizer in the
Speaker 1: ninetieth minute, but the Courage refused to let the Spirit
Speaker 1: steal momentum for good. In the fifth minute of stoppage time,
Speaker 1: Courage captain center back Natalie Jacobs scored to give her
Speaker 1: team the w and accompanying three points more NWSL. The
Speaker 1: league's heat policy is back in the spotlight after Saturday's
Speaker 1: match between the Denver Summit and Utah Royals in Colorado
Speaker 1: was rescheduled from two pm Mountain time to eight pm
Speaker 1: mountain time. The league announced the change on Friday night,
Speaker 1: marking it improved from last season, when a game between
Speaker 1: the Kansas City Current and Orlando Pride was put on
Speaker 1: a same day delay, ultimately kicking off about four hours
Speaker 1: late and sparking conversations about why the league hadn't postponed
Speaker 1: the game in advance. Denver went on to win Saturday's contest,
Speaker 1: though it came down to the final few minutes, with
Speaker 1: Denver's Janine Sonas scoring the game winner in the fourth
Speaker 1: minute of second half stoppage time to cycling and the
Speaker 1: conclusion of the Tour de France FEM. Dutch cyclist Demi
Speaker 1: Volloring won her second career Tour de France title on Sunday,
Speaker 1: defeating rival Kasia nuodoma Fini with a dominant performance in
Speaker 1: the ninth and final stage. The two riders entered the
Speaker 1: day just eight seconds apart, but Vollering separated herself from
Speaker 1: Neodoma Finni in the fourth and final ascent and went
Speaker 1: on to win the overall title by one minute and
Speaker 1: eighteen seconds. Vollering, whose first title came in twenty twenty three,
Speaker 1: is now the first person to win two Tour de
Speaker 1: France FEM titles in the modern era of the event.
Speaker 1: Chape We got to take a break when we come back,
Speaker 1: A thoughtful, sometimes spicy conversation on the WNBA at thirty
Speaker 1: with Cheryl Swoops, t Cha Pennicero, and Donna Orander, Welcome
Speaker 1: back slices. Before I send you to my convo with
Speaker 1: three wogs, a quick reminder on their bona fides. Cheryl
Speaker 1: Swoops was the first player to be signed in the
Speaker 1: w IS. A three time WNBA MVP, four time WNBA Champion,
Speaker 1: and three time Olympic Gold medalist. She was elected to
Speaker 1: the Naismith Hall of Fame in twenty sixteen and the
Speaker 1: Women's Basketball Hall of Fame in twenty seventeen. Now co
Speaker 1: host of levels to this right here on iHeart Women's Sports.
Speaker 1: T Cha Pennachero was a WNBA champ with the Sacramento Monarchs,
Speaker 1: a four time w all Star, seven time w assists leader,
Speaker 1: and third all time in career assists. Inducted into the
Speaker 1: Women's Basketball Hall of Fame in twenty nineteen, she's continuing
Speaker 1: her impact as an agent for current w players. Donna
Speaker 1: Orander was a former president of the WNBA, now the
Speaker 1: co founder and commissioner of the Upshot League. An All
Speaker 1: American hooper at Queen's College, she played professionally for all
Speaker 1: three seasons of the WBL Women's Pro Basketball League. Now,
Speaker 1: just a note in case it's not clear while listening
Speaker 1: that Cheryl had to leave the panel a little early
Speaker 1: to get to another event. So when you hear us
Speaker 1: say Mike drop, we meant it. She dropped that mic
Speaker 1: and scurry to her next event. All right, here's our conversation.
Speaker 1: We are here celebrating thirty years of the WNBA.
Speaker 2: Really kind of unbelievable.
Speaker 1: Thank you for bringing your greatness into this room with
Speaker 1: us and helping create the foundation for this league.
Speaker 2: That we now get to celebrate at thirty.
Speaker 1: And it feels like right now, so many of the
Speaker 1: conversations I'm having are holding two things at once. The
Speaker 1: celebration of the investment and the media coverage and the
Speaker 1: excitement and everything else in the growing patents of the
Speaker 1: w at thirty and some of the issues that have
Speaker 1: always played to women and some of the new issues
Speaker 1: that come up because of the resulting interest and enthusiasm
Speaker 1: about the league. So with that in mind, we're going
Speaker 1: to celebrate and we're going to make some room to
Speaker 1: continue pushing for even better. I want to start with
Speaker 1: a little then and now and talk about the beginning.
Speaker 1: What's the same and what's changed since that thirty years
Speaker 1: ago start? So what's an issue from twenty five thirty
Speaker 1: years ago early in the league that we're still dealing
Speaker 1: with now.
Speaker 3: Tisha, well, thank you all for being here today, first
Speaker 3: of all, and I mean, obviously it's night and day.
Speaker 3: I feel like we have taken so many steps forward.
Speaker 3: There's obviously still so much room for growth. I would
Speaker 3: say the salaries are much better. But one thing that
Speaker 3: I actually miss is like really true fans that love
Speaker 3: the game and respect the game and respect women. And
Speaker 3: I feel like today has become a little bit political.
Speaker 3: So I'm kind of missed the OG fans, the ones
Speaker 3: that actually recognize me. No Cheryl is no. All of
Speaker 3: our stats and everything, and so that's one thing that
Speaker 3: I missed the most about the w.
Speaker 2: It's like a hipster band. They were there first.
Speaker 1: Now the new people found out how great it is,
Speaker 1: and you're like, let me teach you some things, young
Speaker 1: and about what you're watching. Share what's up that we're
Speaker 1: still dealing with to this day that maybe twenty five
Speaker 1: thirty years ago we were frustrated by.
Speaker 2: As well, Oh gosh, referring.
Speaker 5: No like for real reffing was bad back then and
Speaker 5: it's bad today.
Speaker 2: And let me just add one thing. They are human,
Speaker 2: So for now, right for now and hate them just
Speaker 2: as much conversation.
Speaker 5: But sometimes I think we as athletes, but especially fans,
Speaker 5: we tend to forget that sometimes right, So, yeah, they're
Speaker 5: gonna make mistakes, but for the most part, the refien
Speaker 5: has always been what it is.
Speaker 2: That's a great answer, especially Saince you can't be fined
Speaker 2: for that now.
Speaker 5: I fall right because I had so much stuff I
Speaker 5: wanted to say back, but girl, my check was not
Speaker 5: that big to begin a trine.
Speaker 2: So I was like not doing that.
Speaker 1: Statute of limitations has passed on you being fined for criticizac.
Speaker 6: I think I still have one of her overdue fines
Speaker 6: in my shore. I think I kept it as a
Speaker 6: momento of my experience during the league. It might even
Speaker 6: be more than one.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: Down't you have something from twenty five thirty years ago,
Speaker 1: as you're helping start and lead this league that was
Speaker 1: a problem then that you say we still haven't quite
Speaker 1: fixed that.
Speaker 6: First of all, the degree to which things have evolved,
Speaker 6: it's like kind of having a baby, right Like it
Speaker 6: like when you have one, you're like you're never gonna
Speaker 6: have one ever again because it hurts so much. And
Speaker 6: then the other babies grow up and they're kind of
Speaker 6: fun and you're like, oh, I'll do it again, and
Speaker 6: it's really okay, Right, it's really okay.
Speaker 2: I get to that bar we're I'll share to do
Speaker 2: anyone and done, and I was like, no, we're good.
Speaker 2: In some ways, it's like that.
Speaker 6: I mean, the pain of growing up, birthing this league
Speaker 6: through the early years was real, and yet today the
Speaker 6: joy in having the benefits of all of that pain
Speaker 6: is also real. But the opportunity that still lies ahead
Speaker 6: is also real. So all three of those things, as
Speaker 6: you said, exist together in the same kind of frame.
Speaker 6: I like the happier.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, so I want to ask for some positive
Speaker 1: memories from back then.
Speaker 2: We'll get to maybe some hiccups, but I want to
Speaker 2: hear about something.
Speaker 1: I mean, a lot of those new fans that Tisa
Speaker 1: mentioned don't know that the early days of the w
Speaker 1: were massive sellouts, huge crowds, so much enthusiasm, celebrities showing up.
Speaker 1: I mean, it was big at the beginning before some
Speaker 1: executives with intention tried to bury it. And we are
Speaker 1: growing like a weed now into a flower.
Speaker 2: So we're good.
Speaker 1: But let's go back to the early days, some crazy
Speaker 1: celebrity interactions, some awesome sponsorship thing that you did, something
Speaker 1: that felt very big at the time.
Speaker 2: Because of the w existing I can start.
Speaker 3: The first WNBA All Star was the Medicine Square Garden
Speaker 3: and Weed the Euston sing the national anthing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm jealous.
Speaker 3: Wow, I mean that to me, there was like a
Speaker 3: moment that I'll never forget. Even though when they announced
Speaker 3: me they call me Tina. I was like Tina.
Speaker 5: I was like, Na, which is crazy. You know, they
Speaker 5: say all black people look alike, but I don't know
Speaker 5: how they got you and Tina.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I think he was t shirt but he
Speaker 3: just yeah, he's like that's not right.
Speaker 2: That can't be right.
Speaker 3: It must be Tino the name right, which was already complicated,
Speaker 3: but I would at least get the first name right.
Speaker 3: But anyways, Whitney, you ston to me, it was like,
Speaker 3: you know, at the time, my favorite artist, so to
Speaker 3: have her perform at the very first All Star game
Speaker 3: and Medicine Square Garden and you can't get any better
Speaker 3: than that.
Speaker 2: You were like, we made it, we made we made
Speaker 2: it that we didn't know.
Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, when you can look at your paycheck.
Speaker 5: Cheryl what about you you have so many Well I
Speaker 5: obviously was going to say that one. And the thing
Speaker 5: is like they kept it a surprise. It was like
Speaker 5: they were like, we have like amazing iconic person performing
Speaker 5: and we all were trying to figure out who it was.
Speaker 5: And then when you saw Whitney Houston walk out, everybody
Speaker 5: was like.
Speaker 2: And she crushed it.
Speaker 5: Also for me being able to play an All Star
Speaker 5: game in a radio city music hall when they like
Speaker 5: just converted it to a basketball court. And that was
Speaker 5: four when we were getting ready for the Olympics, so
Speaker 5: we came in played WA All Star squad obviously, so
Speaker 5: that was pretty special to me.
Speaker 2: But I'm gonna be a little selfish for just a second.
Speaker 5: For me, I looked back on when the league first
Speaker 5: started and when my shoe first came out, and I
Speaker 5: remember just the joy that I had, but the joy
Speaker 5: that other players had, and we celebrated each other because
Speaker 5: it had never been done before. But when I actually
Speaker 5: walked into a Lady foot locker, was.
Speaker 2: Lady foot locker still around? Damn I'm own.
Speaker 5: But I walked into a Lady foot locker and I
Speaker 5: saw my shoe sitting on the shelf like on its
Speaker 5: own wall, not with the man's shoes, and oh god,
Speaker 5: I get a little emotional now because I don't think
Speaker 5: I ever thought that we would see a moment like that.
Speaker 5: And so fast forward to season thirty and now we're
Speaker 5: talking about I don't know how many six, seven, eight
Speaker 5: nine players who have their own signature shoe today. That's
Speaker 5: one thing for me that really stands out because that
Speaker 5: moment was so it was just big.
Speaker 2: It was transformational.
Speaker 5: And for a brand like a Nike to do something
Speaker 5: outside of the box and so many people saying, oh
Speaker 5: my gosh, what are you doing.
Speaker 2: This is never going to work, and here we are now, all.
Speaker 5: These different female athletes with their signature shoe is pretty special.
Speaker 1: My favorite stories were always you and Michael Jordan going
Speaker 1: up against each other and being you being held up
Speaker 1: in the same light.
Speaker 2: As him, especially growing up here in Chicago.
Speaker 1: For there to be a woman that people were saying, Oh,
Speaker 1: this woman, Cheryl's going to go to Jordan's camp and
Speaker 1: take him in one on one was so empowering.
Speaker 2: I went to the camp. I ain't taken, but I
Speaker 2: went to look at it.
Speaker 1: I don't think anyone ever really did. They can all
Speaker 1: say they crossed him up or whatever. No one really
Speaker 1: ever had.
Speaker 2: Michael give me a story that shows how times have changed. Donna,
Speaker 2: is there one you get there?
Speaker 1: I know you were the first person to sell that
Speaker 1: jersey front and these days it's easy to not easy,
Speaker 1: it's much easier than it used to be to sell
Speaker 1: brands and sponsors on the idea of women's sports as
Speaker 1: a financial opportunity.
Speaker 2: But back then you had to hustle for that stuff.
Speaker 6: Very much so, and I think what people probably would
Speaker 6: and I don't know that I want to remember, but
Speaker 6: I can't help it. When I was there with Session Hit,
Speaker 6: economic times were hard. Every single day I was told
Speaker 6: that this league was not going to make it. I
Speaker 6: heard it from my peers. I heard it from my
Speaker 6: NBA executives. I heard it from Stephen A.
Speaker 2: Smith.
Speaker 6: I heard it everywhere I went that this was not
Speaker 6: going to work. And it was the dating. Other than
Speaker 6: the fact, what I learned the most was how how
Speaker 6: to not hear no. So I closed my office, I
Speaker 6: cover up and said, there's just one mission to do.
Speaker 6: And because the economics were very perilous and all of
Speaker 6: the teams needed help, I said, Okay, well, what are
Speaker 6: we gonna do. I literally flew to Seattle. There's a
Speaker 6: friend of mine who's like an expert in sports. We
Speaker 6: got a little cabin, had a couple of beers, and
Speaker 6: he goes, all right, what are we going to do
Speaker 6: and how we're going to bring more money into these teams?
Speaker 6: And you know, all around the world Taher played in Europe.
Speaker 6: I don't show did you go to Europe at any
Speaker 6: one time?
Speaker 1: Or no?
Speaker 6: A little bit? So you know, I mean right there,
Speaker 6: a little bit. So we know outside of the US
Speaker 6: to where a patch of some company on your jersey
Speaker 6: was expected or accepted in America top you know, if
Speaker 6: you were one of the four majors, and we considered
Speaker 6: ourselves a major, you don't do that. And my friend said, listen,
Speaker 6: if you want to do it, it's a potential starting anywhere,
Speaker 6: it'd be six figures to a million dollars. And so
Speaker 6: I said, you know what, I think we got to
Speaker 6: do that. And so we brought it back to the
Speaker 6: I brought it back to the league. It took months
Speaker 6: and months and months. So it's one thing to say, oh,
Speaker 6: you have to make more money, and then you say,
Speaker 6: here's a great idea how to make more money, and
Speaker 6: they go, well, we're not really sure about that. I said, well,
Speaker 6: what's your great idea? And ultimately we did. And actually
Speaker 6: I think Phoenix was the one who led the way.
Speaker 6: And now you can see obviously not only is a
Speaker 6: WNBA leading in the way they can partner with sponsors
Speaker 6: who are really eager to be featured, but also the NBA,
Speaker 6: how about the NFL, how about Major League Baseball? As
Speaker 6: we talked about it, the WNBA led the way in
Speaker 6: American sports on that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, in a number of things, Tisha Chall, I'm sure
Speaker 1: you have flight stories, facilities stories. Give me a good one,
Speaker 1: give me a deep cut that no one's heard about,
Speaker 1: just when things were a little rougher.
Speaker 3: Listen, when I played in Sacramento, our coach love Southwest.
Speaker 2: So I still love Southwest, so everyone to know that.
Speaker 3: But I think i've I haven't floun Southwest. But times
Speaker 3: have changed. I think we were all trying to get
Speaker 3: the A so we had to like do the check in,
Speaker 3: try to get an X zero and hope that your
Speaker 3: teammates sat next to you because we had back to
Speaker 3: back so we had to be at the airport at
Speaker 3: five o'clock. Take the first flight out was mandatory, So,
Speaker 3: like say six o'clock, if you sat next to a fan,
Speaker 3: like a regular person that realized you were a WNBA player,
Speaker 3: they talked to you. Though I'm like, lady, I had
Speaker 3: a game last night, I played a night. I'm trying
Speaker 3: to sleep. I don't want to be rude, but you know,
Speaker 3: so they would just talk you to death. So you
Speaker 3: allfully got the A, got the X zero and the
Speaker 3: teammate next to you so you could try to get
Speaker 3: some sleep.
Speaker 2: I love that, and back then it was probably stort.
Speaker 1: So do you like sports, which I still get after
Speaker 1: like twenty years.
Speaker 2: So do you like no made an entire career out
Speaker 2: of it? Would you plany me one on exactly? You
Speaker 2: couldn't be me though, right, Cheryl, what do you remember?
Speaker 5: Oh my gosh, all of that, but travel, like you know,
Speaker 5: I remember, I guess it was a couple of maybe
Speaker 5: two or three seasons ago. I don't remember what team,
Speaker 5: the Mystics, maybe maybe the Aces when they had to
Speaker 5: sit in the airport for a while.
Speaker 2: Do you remember this and they were like, oh, well,
Speaker 2: we're not going to play this game.
Speaker 3: Because we had to be Actually I think it was
Speaker 3: the Aces were going to play the mystics, but I could.
Speaker 2: Be one of but something like that.
Speaker 7: And so I remember like reading that, and I was like, huh,
Speaker 7: y'all are not going to play because you had to
Speaker 7: sit in the airport, Like your flight got delayed, so
Speaker 7: you're sitting.
Speaker 5: In the airport for a while. Like that just didn't
Speaker 5: happen back then. I don't care what the travel story was.
Speaker 2: It did not matter.
Speaker 5: So we may have played in Houston tonight, got up
Speaker 5: early in the morning tomorrow to fly to Sacramento. We
Speaker 5: might sit in the airport for six, seven, eight hours.
Speaker 5: We may have an hour when we get there. We
Speaker 5: went straight to the gym to whoop up on Zacramento.
Speaker 5: Not really, Titia, not really, Titia, not really Tcha t Shir.
Speaker 2: Remembers it that way, things like that. It just we
Speaker 2: just did it. There was no whatever there was. That
Speaker 2: doesn't make it right. It happened right. It's like that,
Speaker 2: that's all we knew. It's all you knew.
Speaker 1: And also like that's why the younger players now need
Speaker 1: to respect and the foundation set for them so that
Speaker 1: they can be in a position to say we shouldn't
Speaker 1: be expected to do this, and we won't do this.
Speaker 2: It needs to change.
Speaker 1: Because you also show up whenever you could and needed
Speaker 1: to to help build a league that they can now
Speaker 1: make some more calls about well.
Speaker 5: And so and the other thing for for myself, right,
Speaker 5: having had Jordan and we're traveling like.
Speaker 2: We had roommates. Jordan is her son. Yeah, who's twenty
Speaker 2: nine name Michael Jordan.
Speaker 5: Dang, go, hey, you'll time my story.
Speaker 2: I just wanting to make sure people didn't think you
Speaker 2: they and Michael Jordan not road trips. You know, I
Speaker 2: was jealous.
Speaker 8: This is not the time could break that news after
Speaker 8: those Chiron bad though for whoever my roommate was because
Speaker 8: I had my son with me, and so we had
Speaker 8: to actually pay the difference for our.
Speaker 2: Own room if we wanted our own room.
Speaker 5: So I mean obviously with me traveling with my son
Speaker 5: and then having a nanny, it was like, there's no
Speaker 5: way I'm going to have four people in one room.
Speaker 5: So but again back then, it was just what we
Speaker 5: did for the same reason you just mentioned.
Speaker 2: So that the players today who some of y'all I see.
Speaker 5: Y'all in this room in here, y'all today, some of
Speaker 5: y'all in this room, right, it's supposed to be better
Speaker 5: for them today than it was when the league started.
Speaker 2: Just cut me a piece of that chit they did,
Speaker 2: and we'll get to that.
Speaker 1: They be in the CBA, which was very special. But
Speaker 1: I want to hear a tear.
Speaker 5: But I was about to ask you, do you know
Speaker 5: when we get in that checking them out?
Speaker 3: I actually they I played in fifteen years in the WNBA.
Speaker 3: The first time that I felt like what a professional
Speaker 3: should feel like was when I played in Russia. Because
Speaker 3: we flew charter planes, we stayed at five star hotels.
Speaker 3: I didn't have a roommate that I don't take naps,
Speaker 3: so I went a TV on and I can't because
Speaker 3: over there they sleeping and I'm just like, you know,
Speaker 3: that wasn't even Instagram back then. I can't scroll anything.
Speaker 3: So yeah, so that was the first time I'm playing
Speaker 3: in the best league in the world, allegedly. But when
Speaker 3: I went to Russia, that's when I felt, oh, this
Speaker 3: is what supposed to feel like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's talk about the new CBA.
Speaker 1: Transformational And as I mentioned, these players did look back
Speaker 1: and for certain levels of veteran play.
Speaker 2: They established a fund.
Speaker 1: That would go and pay those of you who paved
Speaker 1: the way, which was very cool to not only look forward,
Speaker 1: but to look back.
Speaker 2: We don't know when the check is coming, so you
Speaker 2: know it's in the mail. It is not in the mail.
Speaker 3: I know that.
Speaker 2: I don't want to spend it.
Speaker 3: Actually you have already spend it.
Speaker 2: I've been calling just let me know, and it's hitting
Speaker 2: the account.
Speaker 1: Don I want to say, that's like a fundamental part
Speaker 1: of this league from the beginning that has not changed,
Speaker 1: which is that checks in the mail.
Speaker 2: Yeah, bone empty promises. No, just kidding that.
Speaker 1: The players are always looking out for each other and
Speaker 1: things get done when they all work together fed front
Speaker 1: as a group. And that's flipping the Senate, that's asking
Speaker 1: for better pay equity, that's coming together to pay it
Speaker 1: backward to the players that made things happen the way
Speaker 1: they did. That's really meaningful, Donna, because as you're founding
Speaker 1: and you're the commissioner of this new upshot development like
Speaker 1: you're probably taking.
Speaker 6: Can I just say this, because I know you have
Speaker 6: big voice and a lot of people listen to you.
Speaker 6: It is not a development league. It is an opportunity league.
Speaker 2: An opportunity league, opportunity back to thank you. It's not yes,
Speaker 2: thank you, thank you, Souse. The w doesn't have.
Speaker 1: A G league, so it's an opportunity league for players
Speaker 1: who are not in want to be. I want Totten
Speaker 1: called up, But I just I think right now, as
Speaker 1: we're seeing at thirty the importance for the league, even
Speaker 1: as it's now richer and everything else, to remember that
Speaker 1: things get done together and to stay unified. What would
Speaker 1: be your message to them down because you were the
Speaker 1: commissioner back then, your message of players now?
Speaker 6: You know. It's so interesting because this morning I had
Speaker 6: a conversation just on this with a player that I loved,
Speaker 6: one of the Ogs. And she's coaching. No, no, because
Speaker 6: it's not. She's a coach I still and I love
Speaker 6: her as a coach I loved as a player. And
Speaker 6: the whole conversation really was about continuing to understand the
Speaker 6: power of us in any aspect of your life that
Speaker 6: an I only go so far, but we can take us,
Speaker 6: you know, throughout the universe, and in a team sport especially,
Speaker 6: and in a league that is really all leagues are,
Speaker 6: and the health of a league is contingent on the
Speaker 6: health of every other team. I might want to beat
Speaker 6: your ass every single day, just like you wanted to
Speaker 6: beat the Sacramento Mamre not. But at the end of
Speaker 6: the day, both of those teams needed to be successful,
Speaker 6: all of them for the league to rise. And I
Speaker 6: think what she was telling me and I was hearing
Speaker 6: and seeing even in the young players that we are getting,
Speaker 6: is that, well, you know, it's about my building my brand.
Speaker 6: How do you help me build my brand? And the
Speaker 6: question really should be is how do I and we
Speaker 6: help build our collective brand? And I think that's a
Speaker 6: greater message for our whole world today.
Speaker 2: You know what I mean. So it's really important, Tisha.
Speaker 2: If you were commissioner for.
Speaker 6: A year, we'll make it a day and make it hard.
Speaker 1: No, I wouldn't say being the commissioner of the WNB,
Speaker 1: even for a year is easy.
Speaker 2: But what would your priority be for this league at thirty?
Speaker 3: I would ask the players. I think Unarrival is a
Speaker 3: great example. You know, it's ran by players and the
Speaker 3: FISA and Brienna Steurs started it and they have a
Speaker 3: huge input in how the leagues ran. And at the
Speaker 3: end of the day, I feel like right now there's
Speaker 3: a huge disconnect between the commissioner and the players. I
Speaker 3: feel like the respect is kind of being lost, and
Speaker 3: that should be the leader of the league. And if
Speaker 3: they respect his loss, how you're going to leave right
Speaker 3: because nobody's really going to listen to you. So as
Speaker 3: a commissioner, I would so I don't know if I'll
Speaker 3: do a survey. I don't know how I'm going to
Speaker 3: do it, But I don't want to listen to the players.
Speaker 3: How can we get better? And then work on that
Speaker 3: to get better?
Speaker 2: Cheryl? How about you?
Speaker 1: Because I feel like in a lot of other leagues,
Speaker 1: it's sort of expected that the commissioner will take the
Speaker 1: slings and arrows of the public on behalf of owners,
Speaker 1: But it's more complicated here. Kathy Engelbert answers to the
Speaker 1: owners and also to Adam Silver and the MNBA in
Speaker 1: a way that's not super transparent. We're not always sure
Speaker 1: who's making those decisions, and it does feel like there's
Speaker 1: a disconnect sometimes between Kathy as the businesswoman getting stuff
Speaker 1: done and Kathy as a leader in the cultural and
Speaker 1: player space.
Speaker 2: If you were the commissioner, how do you see that role?
Speaker 1: And do we expect too much out of Kathy that
Speaker 1: we don't expect out of commissioners of other major leagues
Speaker 1: when it comes to culture and a fairy spot.
Speaker 2: I would never be the commissioner first.
Speaker 5: Tatitia's point, Yes, as a commissioner you work for the owners.
Speaker 5: I get that, but the communication has it has to
Speaker 5: be better. So I think the first thing that I
Speaker 5: would do is start with having some type of a
Speaker 5: better line of communication with my players. And for a
Speaker 5: lot of different reasons, and just recently because we're here
Speaker 5: at All Star, you hear some of the stories from
Speaker 5: some of the players who are like you're saying I
Speaker 5: decline to shoot at a three point contest when you
Speaker 5: never asked me.
Speaker 2: And the league saying we go through the agent and
Speaker 2: then the player.
Speaker 1: Is the player not hearing from the agent? Right, how's
Speaker 1: everyone's job not being done?
Speaker 7: Well?
Speaker 6: There's also plausible deniability as well, right on which side
Speaker 6: I don't have. I don't even know what the issue is.
Speaker 6: I'm just saying that that, okay, that can happen, right
Speaker 6: if somebody says they didn't know, but this one knew, right,
Speaker 6: I mean, if.
Speaker 1: You have to figure out the impetus for someone to
Speaker 1: lie on other side, why would you say someone denied
Speaker 1: if they didn't, and why would you say I didn't
Speaker 1: deny if you didn't.
Speaker 2: So the communication is the problem. Something is getting lost, right.
Speaker 5: But to me, when you accept that role, that position
Speaker 5: as a commissioner, you should know and understand what you're
Speaker 5: walking into. I by no means do I think that's
Speaker 5: an easy job. But where we are right now, that
Speaker 5: seat has to be better than what we're getting. And
Speaker 5: I don't just mean from you know what just recently happened.
Speaker 2: It's our game today.
Speaker 5: Tatitia's point has become in my opinion, way too political
Speaker 5: and as og it hurts my heart to see where
Speaker 5: we are when we're having more conversations about black and
Speaker 5: white and racism. Yep, that happens, that's where we are
Speaker 5: in this country. But when we're having more conversations about
Speaker 5: that than the actual talent that we're seeing, to me,
Speaker 5: it just takes away from the excitement of watching great basketball.
Speaker 5: And I only say all that because as a commissioner,
Speaker 5: it is your job and your responsibility to figure out
Speaker 5: how do I fix this? And I'm not saying it's easy.
Speaker 5: That's why I said I would never be commissioner because
Speaker 5: I don't have an answer to that. But you have
Speaker 5: to have a better my opinion, a better line of
Speaker 5: communication with your players, and.
Speaker 2: That's what you get paid the big bucks for. You
Speaker 2: got to figure that stuff out.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I mean it isn't easy, and some of
Speaker 1: the issues plague other leagues as well. I think one
Speaker 1: of the biggest issues is other leagues get three sixty
Speaker 1: coverage where it's a part of the larger conversation you're
Speaker 1: having about the players and the box scores and the
Speaker 1: fantasy leagues and everything else and the w Often it
Speaker 1: doesn't break through unless it's a story about the race aspect,
Speaker 1: the officiating issues, the negatives, and when someone like Asia
Speaker 1: Wilson goes off and has a historic gear and proves
Speaker 1: that she might be the great of all time.
Speaker 2: No offense, sure, because you know, well really bad. I'm
Speaker 2: not mad she's coming Asia. I will sit here right now.
Speaker 2: We want to tell you Asia Wilson's going to get
Speaker 2: her fifth MVP this year.
Speaker 6: Okay, Yeah, But to go back to what you said,
Speaker 6: where we're still falling short is that in the general
Speaker 6: conversation about our athletes, we're not talking enough about what
Speaker 6: they do on the court.
Speaker 2: Keep the main thing the matter, and they deserve it.
Speaker 6: They deserve it. Because it is exciting and it's fun
Speaker 6: and it's extraordinary all of that, and we need more
Speaker 6: of that. But I just also want to say, you're right,
Speaker 6: it is a really hard job. And I have to
Speaker 6: just say I love that job. I loved it. It
Speaker 6: was the hardest job I ever had, but it was
Speaker 6: the best job I ever had. But I also think
Speaker 6: that there are leaders for times and we don't know
Speaker 6: everything that happens. You probably know more because you have
Speaker 6: a bunch of players, and maybe some of them are
Speaker 6: here and they want to tell us really what's going on.
Speaker 6: But the point is is that there are certain leaders
Speaker 6: at certain times times. And Kathy came in and made
Speaker 6: some huge economic advances and what she was able to
Speaker 6: do and the shifting cultural landscape and all of that.
Speaker 6: That's fine, right, But every leader has different strengths and
Speaker 6: and you see that throughout sport and you see that
Speaker 6: in every company too. So it is hard. And I
Speaker 6: also think we live in a time that's scary, right,
Speaker 6: Who you stick your neck out? I mean I think
Speaker 6: about it all the time. What do you say? And
Speaker 6: when I never felt like that before, I felt like
Speaker 6: I can be authentically me and that would be enough.
Speaker 6: And yet everything has been politicized, and there's bots everywhere
Speaker 6: that say like that are that are weaponized, and you're thinking,
Speaker 6: oh my god, I just want to go home and
Speaker 6: hug my kids and I want my husband to still
Speaker 6: like me and not to think and like all these
Speaker 6: kind of things that are at risk in this particular
Speaker 6: time in the world.
Speaker 1: And it's the landscape too of the media because it's
Speaker 1: aggregation of one thought without the full sentence, or it's
Speaker 1: even because there isn't this established place everyone can go
Speaker 1: on women's sports to look at and say that's true.
Speaker 1: I just saw it on Sports Center or Adam Schefter
Speaker 1: reported it, so it's true. It's bifurcated and spread out,
Speaker 1: and it's so online because mainstream media hasn't been willing
Speaker 1: to cover it that people know that onlines where the
Speaker 1: w conversation is.
Speaker 5: I want to add one thing to what Donna was saying, like, yes,
Speaker 5: that's what I do. I know, I watch it, I
Speaker 5: see it. That is a tough job. I guess one
Speaker 5: question I have is this people want to say, like
Speaker 5: that racism doesn't exist personally, I don't think racism ever
Speaker 5: left right, but I will.
Speaker 2: Also say when we played.
Speaker 5: Was racism around it was, Yes, it was, But the
Speaker 5: difference to me was one social media plays a huge
Speaker 5: part of that and we didn't have it. But I
Speaker 5: also and I'm going to go back to the very
Speaker 5: beginning when Val Ackerman was the very first it was
Speaker 5: president then not commissioner. I think as players, we all
Speaker 5: felt like Val Ackerman was going to have our backs.
Speaker 2: With all of the hate.
Speaker 5: All of the stuff that went on. Then Val was
Speaker 5: going to hold it down and have our backs. And
Speaker 5: so when I look at this climate that we're in
Speaker 5: today outside of sports, when you see all of these
Speaker 5: players talk about the threats they're getting, the ugly text
Speaker 5: and ugly messages, and the race all of those things
Speaker 5: are getting.
Speaker 6: As a commissioner, yes, I hear you, loud and clear, Yes,
Speaker 6: the answer is yes.
Speaker 2: To just finish the sentence for them to don't hear.
Speaker 1: But as a commissioner, you should want to reach out
Speaker 1: directly and communicate with them that.
Speaker 2: You have my back.
Speaker 5: Can you go and stop all of this? No, you can,
Speaker 5: But as a player in this league and listen, a
Speaker 5: league that is predominantly black, and you understand this climate
Speaker 5: that we're in, I need to know that you have
Speaker 5: my back, and I think there are a lot of players.
Speaker 5: But I think there are a lot of players today
Speaker 5: and even as a former player.
Speaker 2: Who feel like.
Speaker 5: It's us versus you and everybody and them, right, And
Speaker 5: if we're talking about growing a brand together, yes, then
Speaker 5: I need my commissioner to be.
Speaker 2: On my side. Yeah. Well, and I'm not sure if players.
Speaker 2: There's players in here.
Speaker 3: I would like to add something. I think as a
Speaker 3: captain or as a point guard, it's easy to lead
Speaker 3: when you're winning, but when you go on a losing streak,
Speaker 3: that's when true leaders come out. And it's the same thing.
Speaker 3: It's easy to be the commission or the president of
Speaker 3: something when everything is great, but when you know what
Speaker 3: hits the fan, step up and be a leader. And
Speaker 3: that's what I don't see right now.
Speaker 1: I think to Cheryl's point, for women in particular, women
Speaker 1: of color, queer women, marginalized women, the threats and the
Speaker 1: harassment hit harder than they do for the average person.
Speaker 2: And four male.
Speaker 1: Athletes, even if you can't stop it from happening, and
Speaker 1: even if yes, the WNBA has put a ton of
Speaker 1: protections in physically, more security and more attention to physical
Speaker 1: safety psychologically believing that your leader has your back.
Speaker 2: How much that can do for you.
Speaker 1: Also your fear of future harassment and engagement with fans
Speaker 1: and folks, to know that the league is always going
Speaker 1: to be on the right side of that instead of
Speaker 1: feeling like there might be silence, and that I think
Speaker 1: is the major gap there, because you can't prevent it,
Speaker 1: but you can make someone feel like if something were
Speaker 1: to go down, you would be on their side. It's
Speaker 1: complicated that job, and it's complicated what's going on in
Speaker 1: the league right now. Would you like to see players
Speaker 1: who are at the center of it speak up more
Speaker 1: because their voice can carry so much. When it comes
Speaker 1: to the way certain fans or certain media members talk about.
Speaker 3: The league, I think sometimes they should. I think some
Speaker 3: of these fans not through basketball fans, so they don't
Speaker 3: even look at the game the way people that love
Speaker 3: basketball and really respect the WNBA look at the games.
Speaker 3: So sometimes if the player they are you know, really
Speaker 3: cheering for, come up and say, hey, can you guys
Speaker 3: stop and just treat everybody with respect, maybe that's the
Speaker 3: next step for some of this to stop. But it
Speaker 3: has to stop. We have to find a solution because
Speaker 3: it's not right. You know, you're just trying to play
Speaker 3: basketball and have this is your job, and it's really hard.
Speaker 3: The harsh messages, and I mean that's the ones that
Speaker 3: get shared, because I think there's a lot of them
Speaker 3: that don't get shared. I mean, Sheryl that one this morning,
Speaker 3: she don't even know why. So yes, I think sometimes
Speaker 3: it's important. And they have all the players that agents,
Speaker 3: they have pr people, so like get together and you know,
Speaker 3: figure it out how to approach this.
Speaker 1: It feels like there's an opportunity again for unity amongst
Speaker 1: the players, for them to decide together that the basketball
Speaker 1: needs to be more of a focus and that they
Speaker 1: will inevitable be fans that don't have the best interest
Speaker 1: of the players in league in mind, but that they
Speaker 1: can help control their own narratives more. One thing I'll
Speaker 1: say is like we are experiencing this across every space
Speaker 1: right now where you can.
Speaker 2: Be on the internet.
Speaker 1: And if your algorithm only shows you certain things, you
Speaker 1: think that's what's happening. And I do think there are
Speaker 1: people whose algorithm is only showing them Caitlin Clark, slow
Speaker 1: Mo getting fouled, and if they're not watching our names
Speaker 1: or not getting fouled, but reacting is if she was fouled.
Speaker 1: Sometimes not always, she does also get fouled, but depends
Speaker 1: on the occasion.
Speaker 2: I could he it depends on the casion. You're right,
Speaker 2: and listay, I said that on my show the other day,
Speaker 2: like there was one.
Speaker 1: I watched it so many times to make sure I
Speaker 1: wasn't missing it, and I'm like, I don't. I don't
Speaker 1: see it, And I think that makes things more difficult
Speaker 1: for her, but also for the players that end up
Speaker 1: at the center of it. But if you're a fan
Speaker 1: and all you see is slow mo or screen grabs
Speaker 1: of Caitlin feeling that, That's why I posted a video
Speaker 1: the other day of all the other physical play, because
Speaker 1: those fans don't see that if they're not watching the games,
Speaker 1: or if they're out ggwithm is a certain way they're
Speaker 1: getting fed the same message over and over. And even
Speaker 1: people I don't think are at their heart racist or
Speaker 1: against women of color or the WNBA in general, they're
Speaker 1: reacting to what.
Speaker 2: They're being served.
Speaker 1: That's so the league, the commissioner, and the players need
Speaker 1: to take control of that narrative themselves, because they cannot
Speaker 1: trust that the Internet is going to do it.
Speaker 6: Let me ask you, but let me just ask a
Speaker 6: question here and everyone here, what percentage of the fan
Speaker 6: base to say, do you think the majority of the
Speaker 6: fan base gets it and is aligned with all of
Speaker 6: this not happening many of them, right?
Speaker 2: Or is it most.
Speaker 6: Coming from outside the fan base?
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I think that's right. I think the actual
Speaker 2: fans are.
Speaker 1: I think most of the actual fans are going to
Speaker 1: the games and part of this great culture. Then there
Speaker 1: are people knowing that they can monetize the tension, whether
Speaker 1: that's talking heads who have never paid attention to the
Speaker 1: w before and still aren't watching, but figure out where
Speaker 1: they can put their finger to mess with folks. And
Speaker 1: then people on the internet and even social media companies
Speaker 1: that up sell engagement that's causing fights because that is
Speaker 1: good to monetize for them.
Speaker 5: I just so the block button has become my best friend,
Speaker 5: because I'm just so glad we didn't have social media
Speaker 5: back then like they do right now. That to me
Speaker 5: is one of the biggest issues. And I'm leaving, but
Speaker 5: I want to say one thing.
Speaker 2: The I'm about to block y'all and go somewhere.
Speaker 5: All of y'all listen the the The physicality of the
Speaker 5: game is not new, that's createn. The game has always
Speaker 5: been physical. I think every player that's in there. So
Speaker 5: if you are a current or former player, stand up,
Speaker 5: raise your hand, all of that.
Speaker 2: Don't just raise your hands. Yes, oh my gosh, look
Speaker 2: at come on, let's go.
Speaker 5: So the physicality has always been there.
Speaker 2: And the difference is like we just took it. And
Speaker 2: we've always had fans who didn't like us, Like.
Speaker 5: I knew when we went on the road to certain
Speaker 5: places like they were going to bow us or at
Speaker 5: least try to buw us out of everything.
Speaker 3: But the respected you.
Speaker 2: That's it.
Speaker 5: But the other thing is if you didn't like me,
Speaker 5: that was more of a reason for me to try
Speaker 5: to light your ass up.
Speaker 2: That sports this thing is.
Speaker 5: The fun of the physical competition. I feel the fans
Speaker 5: are taking that away, like just just let them play.
Speaker 5: You know, the men's basketball's physical.
Speaker 2: They curse, they fight, they do all the things.
Speaker 5: And then it's what said is, oh, they're just being
Speaker 5: men and they're just playing the game Like that, to
Speaker 5: me is one of the biggest differences in watching the
Speaker 5: game today than when we played. And I just I wish,
Speaker 5: I hope that we could get back to that type
Speaker 5: of basketball.
Speaker 2: But also it's okay to critique players.
Speaker 5: It's okay to say, dang, she was old for ten
Speaker 5: tonight you might want to pass the next one. But
Speaker 5: if you say things like that, you're labeled a racist,
Speaker 5: a hater, You're jealous, You're this, you're that.
Speaker 2: So it gets to a point to where it's like,
Speaker 2: I just.
Speaker 5: Don't really want to say anything, right, but I'm not
Speaker 5: gonna be lifting. I'm I'm gonna give you that. You
Speaker 5: know why, because if anybody can talk about the game today,
Speaker 5: I can't.
Speaker 1: That's right, and I'm leaving literally my job. We're gonna
Speaker 1: keep going. So we'll say farewell to share on. We'll
Speaker 1: give a couple more minutes.
Speaker 2: I want to talk.
Speaker 1: About what's next, because we've talked about the past, we
Speaker 1: talked about some of the issues we're facing now. In
Speaker 1: your wildest dreams, thirty years from now, there will be
Speaker 1: an even better, crazy, amazing.
Speaker 2: Dynamic w And what do you want to say between
Speaker 2: now and then? T show what are the steps you
Speaker 2: want to see happen next?
Speaker 3: I mean, I think you're already in a great place,
Speaker 3: but obviously, thirty years from now, how old I'm going
Speaker 3: to be eighty with a walker, But yeah, I just
Speaker 3: continue to see the the arenas full of people. Viewership
Speaker 3: continues to go up. I think, like the NBA, they've
Speaker 3: gone international and it's a global game. I think the
Speaker 3: WNBA now it's starting, even though they haven't had an
Speaker 3: international game, they haven't played in Paris or Madrid or whatever.
Speaker 3: But I think that's the next step. You see Asia Sabrina,
Speaker 3: they have their own shoe. They want to do the
Speaker 3: China tour like the guys do, and it were very successful.
Speaker 3: So I think the next step, and I don't know,
Speaker 3: it's not going to be here thirty years from now.
Speaker 3: I think it can be maybe five for the WNBA
Speaker 3: to really go international and to be a global brand.
Speaker 2: I love that, Donald, how about you?
Speaker 6: Thirty years is a long time. I like the five
Speaker 6: year plan. But of course major leagues in America today
Speaker 6: are thirty franchises, so you can expand to every city
Speaker 6: and along with that the asset value. Really what's taken
Speaker 6: off here that's really gotten the growth up is that
Speaker 6: teams are worth something now, and they're worth a lot,
Speaker 6: and I remember peddling teams for ten million wink wink.
Speaker 6: Maybe the money won't make it to the bank account,
Speaker 6: but you can have it if you can support it.
Speaker 6: And of course Houston just went for three hundred million
Speaker 6: and the Valkyries are worth eight hundred and fifty million billion.
Speaker 6: It's it's game changing. But the biggest thing I think,
Speaker 6: and just to extract a little piece, I really do
Speaker 6: think we're living in a time where women's rights are
Speaker 6: being rolled back and the question of who we are
Speaker 6: and what we're control of in terms of our bodies
Speaker 6: and all of that is troubling. And yet women's sports
Speaker 6: is right surfing the wave. You're on the leading edge,
Speaker 6: and I am hoping that this this wave that we're
Speaker 6: continuing to surf that talks about women who are fit
Speaker 6: and strong and capable and competitive and you know, can
Speaker 6: compete and win and lose and be successful, can manage money,
Speaker 6: you name it. Today we're being applauded for that, even
Speaker 6: with all of this skirmishing, and I really do hope
Speaker 6: that we can continue that way to a place where
Speaker 6: women's rights are restored and accelerated to a place that
Speaker 6: is equitable.
Speaker 1: Tisha, how do you, as someone who's now representing players
Speaker 1: who are at this intersection between a country that is
Speaker 1: telling them you are not worthy, you are not deserving,
Speaker 1: we want to take away and roll back Title nine
Speaker 1: and all the other rights that we don't want things
Speaker 1: to be as inclusive, and then they are pushing forward
Speaker 1: and trying to be an opposition to that.
Speaker 3: Stay together, keep fighting, I mean, it's something that we've
Speaker 3: been doing all of our lives a lot of times
Speaker 3: against the world, against society. But there's definitely women. The
Speaker 3: stronger that we are, the more together that we are,
Speaker 3: that's how we move from the needle, and that's what
Speaker 3: we have to continue to do. Like block out the
Speaker 3: noise a lot of times even with social media, like
Speaker 3: you can't reply it back to the haters, you can
Speaker 3: listen to what they really say, saying that's just negativity
Speaker 3: that you don't need, and just staying together and unified.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I always say if someone can't give me a yes,
Speaker 1: then I will not accept their no. Oh.
Speaker 2: I like that.
Speaker 1: If you're not in a position to tell me yes
Speaker 1: or give me something I want, you're also not in
Speaker 1: a position to tell me no or pretend like you
Speaker 1: can take things away.
Speaker 2: Man.
Speaker 6: But coach Sarah Spain, you coached us today. I think,
Speaker 6: and I've heard you a couple of times, this is
Speaker 6: what you told us. You said there's power in numbers.
Speaker 1: Yep.
Speaker 6: And so by the time that happens, and I hope
Speaker 6: that it doesn't, we should all be so strong and
Speaker 6: it's women, but it's men, right. We are a team
Speaker 6: and I always love to talk about the fact that
Speaker 6: life is a team sport. So by the time someone
Speaker 6: turns around says no, you can't have that anymore, we
Speaker 6: are strong and powerful enough we are positioned to be
Speaker 6: able to say no, mean it, and affect it.
Speaker 3: Yep.
Speaker 2: I love that message.
Speaker 1: We will all now be unified in ending the panel
Speaker 1: and getting closer to the drinks and the food that's
Speaker 1: waiting for us. Thanks again to Cheryl, Tsha and Donna
Speaker 1: for taking the time, and thanks to the v found
Speaker 1: fundation in eighty eight vines for organizing that incredible panel
Speaker 1: and event. We have to take another break when we
Speaker 1: return racing side by.
Speaker 2: Side and start them young. Welcome back Slices.
Speaker 1: In honor of the Tour de France fem wrapping up
Speaker 1: this weekend, I wanted to share part of a message
Speaker 1: from Slice Pam, who wrote us back when we did
Speaker 1: a big citrus discussion around the FIFA Men's World Cup
Speaker 1: and debated the pros and cons of major men's and
Speaker 1: women's events happening concurrently versus separately, writes Pam Quote. World
Speaker 1: Cycling has adjusted the schedules of some races such that
Speaker 1: men's and women's events are held at the same time.
Speaker 1: This can save costs for race organizers, support staff can
Speaker 1: double up, road closure fees and traffic control costs decrease, etc.
Speaker 1: Some say that people tuning in for a men's race
Speaker 1: may be more inclined to stick around the watch the
Speaker 1: women's race, so women would benefit from that association. But
Speaker 1: I don't know too many folks that can spend eight
Speaker 1: plus hours watching two races. Also, podcasting of women's races
Speaker 1: tend to be cut short. Men's races will be broadcast
Speaker 1: from start to finish. Broadcasts for women's races tend to
Speaker 1: pick up in the middle of the race, often after
Speaker 1: some critical tactical mover or attack has already changed the
Speaker 1: flavor of the race. This happened most recently during coverage
Speaker 1: of the Giroditalia, a premier stage race. End quote Pam first,
Speaker 1: thanks for chiming in definitely seems like shared resources and
Speaker 1: split costs can be crucial, and certainly women's races are
Speaker 1: much more likely to be broadcast at all if cameras
Speaker 1: and crews are already committed to and set up for
Speaker 1: men's races. As we know, though, women's sports will never
Speaker 1: get the same ratings, attention, coverage, and shine if they're
Speaker 1: always an afterthought or given no thought at all. And
Speaker 1: as we discussed, there are some great benefits to women's
Speaker 1: only events that are curated with intention for a specific
Speaker 1: audience and given full attention and promotion. This is certainly
Speaker 1: a topic worth continuing to discuss. Thanks for writing in PAM.
Speaker 1: We always love to hear from you, so hit us
Speaker 1: up on email, good game at Wondermedia neetwork dot com,
Speaker 1: or leave us a voicemail at eight seven two two
Speaker 1: four fifty seventy and don't forget to subscribe. Rate and
Speaker 1: review It's easy watch the World's Biggest Smallest Valkyrie fan
Speaker 1: rating five out of five, high fives.
Speaker 2: For being a true ball knower. Review.
Speaker 1: My friends Michael and Joanna are raising their kids right,
Speaker 1: and by that I mean with WNBA games on the
Speaker 1: TV at all times. Michael joined the Valkyrie' video and
Speaker 1: content team ahead of this season, and I don't think
Speaker 1: their five year old son Liam has taken off his
Speaker 1: Veronica Burton jerseys since you can check the show notes
Speaker 1: to watch the cutest video compilation of Liam cheering on
Speaker 1: his favorite squad. Now it's your turn, y'all rate and review.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to you tomorrow. Good game, Cheryl Tisha
Speaker 1: and Donna. Good game, Demi volloring you washed up MNBA
Speaker 1: clowns trying to dunk on marginalized folks. Can't you just
Speaker 1: buy a car dealership or sell low T supplements or
Speaker 1: something like a normal retired benchwarmer. A Good Game with
Speaker 1: Sarah Spain is an iHeart women's sports production in partnership
Speaker 1: with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us
Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get
Speaker 1: your podcasts.
Speaker 2: Production by Wonder Media Network, our producers are Alex Azzi
Speaker 2: and Bianca Hillier.
Speaker 1: Our executive producers are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan
Speaker 1: and Emily Rudder. Our editors are Emily Rudder, Lucy Jones,
Speaker 1: Britney Martinez and Gianna Palmer. Production assistant from Avery LOFTUS
Speaker 1: and I'm your host, Sarah Spain